The Ballad of Buster Scruggs with Paul Scheer & Jason Mantzoukas

Six segments. Four legendary movie podcasters. Three and a half hours of keeping David Sims away from his family. Welcome to our Ballad of Buster Scruggs episode! How Did This Get Made’s Paul Scheer and Jason Mantzoukas join the Two Friends to talk about the Coens’ final film together (as of this recording), a grab bag of western vignettes that could have been titled “A Million Ways to Die in the West” if Seth MacFarlane hadn’t already claimed it. We’re picking our favorite segments, chatting about the “wild west” of Netflix projects back when Scruggs was greenlit, and ranking the Coens’ filmography before we cover their solo directorial efforts. Oh, and Jason has a few bones to pick with Griffin and David about a certain section of the True Grit episode. Listen to How Did This Get Made - Grizzly II: Revenge w/ Jake Johnson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qMN10Ek56g Listen to the Coens on Fresh Air https://www.npr.org/2018/11/19/669204732/filmmakers-joel-and-ethan-coen-on-singing-cowboys-and-working-with-oxen Check out the Parker Novels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker_(Stark_novels_character) Check out the Darwyn Cook Parker novels graphic novel adaptation https://www.goodreads.com/series/54156-parker-graphic-novels Listen to Telly Savalas’ Album https://www.amazon.com/TELLY-SAVALAS-vinyl-record/dp/B00Q528IME%5C Listen to Tim Blake Nelson on WTF http://www.wtfpod.com/podcast/episode-1410-tim-blake-nelson Read Joshua Pease piece on Buster Scruggs https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2018/12/11/buster-scruggs-the-moral-remains-and-the-coen-brothers-at-their-most-vulner.html Sign up for Check Book https://blankcheckpod.substack.com/welcome, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. http://www.patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter https://x.com/blankcheckpod?lang=en, Instagram https://www.instagram.com/blankcheckpod/?hl=en, Threads https://www.threads.net/@blankcheckpod?xmt=AQGzctAh4mbWTwYzCV1pzNT6AMV9o99EOfymi8TLR5mTde0 and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/blankcheckpodcast/! Buy some real nerdy merch https://kinshipgoods.com/blankcheck Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/blankies/s/gpcOkQr8Sv or Discord https://discord.gg/Q6YGSR3JrA For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com https://www.blankcheckpod.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 0:03David Sims?

  Yep.

• 0:03Griffin Newman?

  We did a live show.

• 0:04David Sims?

  Yeah, remember?

• 0:05Griffin Newman?

  Ranking Scorsese at the Bell House in Brooklyn. We did the definitive power ranking of Martin Scorsese things.

• 0:12David Sims?

  Uh, it was so fun. Uh, it was very silly.

• 0:15Griffin Newman?

  Ben and Marie were with us and they're with us right now.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Hey, everyone, or should I say, oh?

• 0:20David Sims?

  Oh.

• 0:22Griffin Newman?

  And thanks to our friends at Dynasty Typewriter. It was live streamed for the first time ever, but also the replay is still up there, but only until October 30th.

• 0:31Speaker 02

  So just a few more days.

• 0:33David Sims?

  Yes.

• 0:33Speaker 02

  You can get it at dynasty.tv.

• 0:36David Sims?

  Dynasty.tv.

• 0:37Speaker 02

  It's $20. We had a blast and the spread master really got to work.

• 0:43David Sims?

  Oh, yeah. I was moving things around.

• 0:45Griffin Newman?

  Laptop was on.

• 0:46Speaker 03

  I don't know if I'd have seen you that happy.

• 0:48Griffin Newman?

  You were thrilled. You were like a pick and share.

• 0:50David Sims?

  I was locked in.

• 0:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, very locked in and you were funny.

• 0:53David Sims?

  Thank you. You were funny. You were also funny.

• 0:56Griffin Newman?

  Oh, thank you.

• 0:57David Sims?

  And if you want to see like, you know, Griffin's shine box on camera, it's the only way to see it.

• 1:02Griffin Newman?

  You might see me shine Marie's shoes.

• 1:04David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, if you're into that sort of content.

• 1:07Griffin Newman?

  If that gets you off.

• 1:09Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:10Speaker 02

  So once again, that's at dynasty.tv.

• 1:39Griffin Newman?

  There's just gotta be a place up ahead where men ain't low down and poker's played fair. And if there weren't, what were all the podcasts about? I'll see you there and we can podcast together and shake our heads over all the meanness and the used to be.

• 1:54David Sims?

  I mean, that's nice.

• 1:56Griffin Newman?

  I thought it was sweet.

• 1:57David Sims?

  Yeah, it kind of speaks to this not being like the most like, you know, zingy quotable movie.

• 2:03Griffin Newman?

  I think the language in this movie is incredible, but you look at the quotes page and everything is a fucking unbroken paragraph of dense old west.

• 2:09Speaker 04

  It felt like I was walking into a Walt Disney World ride. Like, you know, it has that kind of like.

• 2:14David Sims?

  Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:16Griffin Newman?

  A hundred percent. I mean, that might be part of why I find this movie so pleasant to watch. What a delight it was. It's so comforting to watch this movie. And yet the most famous line from this.

• 2:26David Sims?

  Movie is first time, which is a perfect pithy to the point crushes has become a meme in its own right, which is funny.

• 2:33Griffin Newman?

  And despite this being a film that is only what seven years old?

• 2:36David Sims?

  Uh, yeah.

• 2:38Griffin Newman?

  I I do feel like the first time meme is almost like the Jeremiah Johnson meme where ninety nine percent of people who use it could not tell you what movie it's.

• 2:47Speaker 05

  I'm gonna be honest, I did not know it was a meme.

• 2:49Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:49Speaker 05

  It's a good. I don't know the Jeremiah Johnson meme.

• 2:53David Sims?

  Okay, so that's a big one.

• 2:54Griffin Newman?

  Oh, boy.

• 2:55David Sims?

  Do you know what?

• 2:55Griffin Newman?

  Pencil on the board, half an hour of discussion.

• 2:57Speaker 04

  No, but Jason is also not on social media.

• 3:00Speaker 05

  It's simply a fact of that I'm not in this world.

• 3:03David Sims?

  You've never been on any of the things that would present to you as a sort of a graphical image format.

• 3:09Speaker 04

  No, no.

• 3:09Griffin Newman?

  History has really proven you right on your on your abstinence.

• 3:14Speaker 05

  Oh, boy.

• 3:14David Sims?

  So the Jeremiah Johnson meme is just the gif of this from Jeremiah Johnson.

• 3:19Speaker 05

  Sure, of course. RIP a legend.

• 3:21David Sims?

  Right, and I think the thing about it, Paul, you don't need me to show you, right? You don't.

• 3:24Speaker 04

  Oh, I know very well, and actually I have a fact about it.

• 3:27Speaker 05

  What is it?

• 3:27David Sims?

  So you use it to convey a kind of like grudging, admirable.

• 3:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, like.

• 3:31Griffin Newman?

  It's almost like a that'll do pig.

• 3:33David Sims?

  But then.

• 3:34Speaker 05

  I don't know. I don't know what that is. You're you're backing it up.

• 3:37Griffin Newman?

  I'm talking James Cromwell and Babe, that weirdly has.

• 3:40Speaker 05

  It was another meme.

• 3:40Speaker 04

  No, no.

• 3:41Griffin Newman?

  It hasn't been memified, but it feels like Jeremiah Johnson represents that kind of feeling.

• 3:45David Sims?

  But the thing that happens, I will say every so often on Twitter, is you'll see someone post, I didn't realize this was Robert Redford.

• 3:54Speaker 04

  That's what I was gonna say. People don't know.

• 3:57Griffin Newman?

  Zach Galifianakis, everyone thinks Zach Galifianakis.

• 3:59Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 4:00David Sims?

  Or they're just like, oh, it's just some guy because he looks so like full faced and stuff.

• 4:04Speaker 05

  And you so rarely see him except that movie with that giant beard.

• 4:08Griffin Newman?

  Right. And that movie has kind of disappeared a little bit, I feel like.

• 4:12Speaker 04

  I also think it's the the sign of the times, right? Because there I remember, this is the thing I always go back to, during one of the Grammy performances, Kanye brought out Paul McCartney. So this gives you how far ago it was. And one of the things on Twitter that was going on very. Bigly, as our president might say, was that, was that, people are like, I love that Kanye's giving new artists a chance to come out to the public. Like, who is, like, they didn't know-

• 4:43Griffin Newman?

  He's using the platform.

• 4:44Speaker 04

  Yes, he's using, like, look, he found this older guy who's really count-

• 4:48Griffin Newman?

  It's a regional act. This is a Liver pudding.

• 4:50Speaker 04

  And so I feel like that, like, that, like, going one step deeper is amazing. I find that with Jason and I on How Did This Get Made? People are like, you guys run a show together? Like, yeah, well, like, you didn't do, you didn't even do, like, a brief Google search.

• 5:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 5:05Speaker 04

  Like, somebody said to me the other day, and genuinely, I was looking at an announcement, I was in something, and they're like, oh, that's amazing, you're, you're starting acting. And I was like, all right. Like, and I said, like, and I first thought it was a bit, and I was like, it wasn't. And I was like, great. And I feel like that is kind of the way that a lot of people are approaching life, just blinders on. It's like, I like this thing, I'm not gonna look to the left or the right of it.

• 5:31Speaker 05

  Well, it's so siloed. Everybody, everybody receives the thing that they get, and whether it's a meme or a podcast or whatever, they don't care to explore it any deeper or further.

• 5:40Griffin Newman?

  No, no. And, right, first time is a self-contained statement.

• 5:44Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 5:44Speaker 04

  And is first time also, that this is the first Coen Brothers that was not in theaters?

• 5:50Speaker 05

  True.

• 5:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it got a very, very limited run. I was even looking it up-

• 5:55David Sims?

  Right, even before Netflix was making the Glass Onion type, kind of like, oh, some of the big shit-

• 6:00Griffin Newman?

  But that was, I mean, that was the biggest they ever had. I still feel like even now, when they give it the perfunctory run at the six theaters they own and a couple others and whatever, it usually plays for like, three continuous weeks. And this was one week between it playing in three theaters and going to Netflix.

• 6:17Speaker 05

  I'm very desperate to get into the dossier on this one because it had so, it went through so many permutations of what this would be.

• 6:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 6:27Speaker 05

  This was not meant to be a movie. This was meant to be a series. This was not meant, so that's what I want to get into.

• 6:32David Sims?

  I'll settle those questions for you.

• 6:33Speaker 05

  Yes, exactly.

• 6:34Speaker 04

  I love this.

• 6:34Griffin Newman?

  But it's a fascinating story.

• 6:36Speaker 05

  Before we do, Ben, if you don't mind, hit it.

• 6:40Griffin Newman?

  Oh, my god.

• 6:41Speaker 04

  What? He came prepared with something?

• 6:44Speaker 05

  I need it louder, Ben.

• 6:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, crank it up.

• 6:48Speaker 05

  On the day True Grit dropped, the blankies all gathered around and gazed in wide wonder at all the Greek-American actors Griffin Day found. The two fans spoke up, couldn't think of any off the dome. They forgot all about me, that I was Greek to the bone. Greek to the bone. I got a bone. I got a bone. A b-b-b-b-b-b-b bone. A b-b-b-b-b-b bone to pick. I got a bone to pick. That's it, Ben, take it out. How dare you.

• 7:25Griffin Newman?

  Very fair.

• 7:26David Sims?

  People were really mad at us about this.

• 7:29Griffin Newman?

  We had this coming.

• 7:30David Sims?

  Now, I'm trying to remember the exact, so we were, we were sort of saying like-

• 7:34Speaker 05

  Can I just interrupt you for a second, David?

• 7:35David Sims?

  It was, it was Stabby and Yorgos. We were talking about Yorgos.

• 7:38Griffin Newman?

  It was True Grit. And we were asking him, do, how quick-

• 7:43Speaker 05

  How quick you vault to like-

• 7:45Griffin Newman?

  How short is your run to be the number one?

• 7:46Speaker 05

  By the way, that's excellent.

• 7:47David Sims?

  That was very well executed.

• 7:48Griffin Newman?

  Also, I do want to call out that Ben texted me about an hour before record and said, weird request, do you have sunglasses?

• 7:56Speaker 05

  Oh, my God.

• 7:57Griffin Newman?

  I thought they were for him.

• 7:58Speaker 05

  I fucking forgot. I love it.

• 8:00Griffin Newman?

  But you were just wearing my Toy Masters of the Universe sunglasses. I don't know if you noticed the logos on the side.

• 8:04Speaker 05

  And I want to be very clear, this is a shout out to Zach Cherry.

• 8:07Griffin Newman?

  Of course.

• 8:08Speaker 05

  This bit is a Zach Cherry bit from Doughboys.

• 8:09David Sims?

  Yes, he did it, he did it perfectly in Doughboys, he did it perfectly here.

• 8:12Speaker 05

  Thank you so much, I got his blessing to do it. Do not wear it, this is not stolen valor.

• 8:16Speaker 04

  By the way, I was wondering why you were reaching out to Zach Cherry, because Jason asked me yesterday, do you have his information?

• 8:21Griffin Newman?

  The machinations here.

• 8:24Speaker 05

  The Uber driver who drove me here, for the 20 minutes I was in the car that I was rehearsing, singing along to the track.

• 8:31Griffin Newman?

  You were doing it out loud?

• 8:32Speaker 05

  Out loud, must have thought I was insane.

• 8:35Griffin Newman?

  Did you warn him or did you just start?

• 8:36Speaker 05

  Zero, I talked to him, not at all.

• 8:38Griffin Newman?

  Kudos to you.

• 8:39Speaker 05

  Because I don't talk to drivers.

• 8:41Speaker 04

  That's the way he does it. Now, I'm a man of the train, that's why we started about 30 minutes late.

• 8:45Griffin Newman?

  And you always talk to the conductor.

• 8:47Speaker 04

  Always.

• 8:48Griffin Newman?

  You knock on their little room.

• 8:49Speaker 04

  I get in there just so I know what's going on. I, uh, my mom once told me, my mom works in hospitals and worked with a lot- A lot of psychiatric care patients at a certain point. And when she was working in New York City, she said, hey, I just want to tell you one thing. Never ride mass transit or get on a bus.

• 9:06David Sims?

  Oh, interesting.

• 9:06Speaker 04

  She said, all those people are suicidal and they're, they're gonna, or on drugs. And I was like, well, that really is limited, uh, majority of transportation.

• 9:14David Sims?

  Kind of how to get around.

• 9:15Speaker 04

  But just to say, never go on mass transit.

• 9:18Speaker 05

  That's so funny.

• 9:19Griffin Newman?

  Any form.

• 9:20Speaker 04

  Any form.

• 9:21Speaker 05

  But I am inclined to agree vis a vis buses.

• 9:24Griffin Newman?

  I agree with that. I agree with that.

• 9:26David Sims?

  Well, the thing about buses is you're not gonna, in New York, you're not gonna get anywhere too fast.

• 9:30Speaker 05

  No.

• 9:30David Sims?

  On a bus.

• 9:31Speaker 05

  But we're getting off track.

• 9:32Griffin Newman?

  We need to settle this issue.

• 9:33David Sims?

  Okay, okay. And we haven't introduced the show.

• 9:36Speaker 05

  I don't care.

• 9:37Griffin Newman?

  I fucking matter.

• 9:38Speaker 05

  I don't care. I've got a grievance that I am lodging.

• 9:41Griffin Newman?

  He's got a ba ba ba bone.

• 9:42Speaker 05

  I've got a bone to pick. You guys with Stavi, who I could not be a bigger fan of.

• 9:48Speaker 04

  Love the guy.

• 9:48Speaker 05

  Are talking about Yorgos, you're talking about True Grit, you're talking about Damon, and then you segue effortlessly into the Chris Nolan, uh, Odyssey that's coming up.

• 9:58David Sims?

  Right, that was it. Right, cuz he's saying there's not one Greek in there.

• 10:01Speaker 05

  No Greeks in it.

• 10:02David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 10:02Speaker 05

  You guys are like, well, who are the Greek American actors who could be in it? And you all came up at like blank. I am not only a, a, a regular guest on this show, I am your friend.

• 10:15David Sims?

  And you're an actor.

• 10:16Griffin Newman?

  You are.

• 10:16Speaker 05

  I am Greek. I am American.

• 10:18Griffin Newman?

  You're a Patreon subscriber. You give us money every month.

• 10:22Speaker 05

  We are on a text chain together.

• 10:24Griffin Newman?

  We're on a text chain.

• 10:24Speaker 05

  This was a, I felt personally aggrieved.

• 10:27David Sims?

  It was, it was tough. I'll say, I'll say what I did. I'm gonna admit what I did.

• 10:31Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 10:31David Sims?

  I Googled Greek American actors at the time. Cause I was also trying to do the like, the true like, who am I not thinking of?

• 10:38Griffin Newman?

  And I was doing it off the dome.

• 10:39David Sims?

  Who should Chris have called?

• 10:41Speaker 05

  I believe it was, I believe you guys came up with Elias Codius, who is Canadian.

• 10:45Griffin Newman?

  Did we even say Galifianakis?

• 10:47David Sims?

  I can't remember if we said him.

• 10:48Speaker 05

  You did not say Zach.

• 10:49Griffin Newman?

  That's all so embarrassing.

• 10:50Speaker 05

  You said Neophardalos, you said Elias Codius, you said Jen Aniston, who is half Greek.

• 10:56David Sims?

  Jennifer Aniston is at the top when you Google.

• 10:58Speaker 05

  Oh, of course.

• 10:59Griffin Newman?

  Did we say Rita Wilson?

• 11:00Speaker 05

  Uh, I don't remember.

• 11:01David Sims?

  She's up there.

• 11:02Speaker 05

  She's in there though, for sure.

• 11:03David Sims?

  This is an interesting list.

• 11:05Speaker 05

  You didn't say Chris Diametopoulos.

• 11:06Speaker 04

  I was gonna say that.

• 11:07Griffin Newman?

  Oh, that's a big mess.

• 11:08David Sims?

  That's at least got a name.

• 11:10Speaker 05

  Now, let's be clear. Is Chris Nolan gonna use any of us in this movie?

• 11:14Speaker 04

  By the way, I wanna see the Odyssey poster with just those names on it.

• 11:18Speaker 05

  Just like me.

• 11:19David Sims?

  Just Stavi.

• 11:20Speaker 05

  Just Chris Diametopoulos. Neophardalos.

• 11:23Griffin Newman?

  It'd be hard to get the text to everyone fitting on.

• 11:25Speaker 04

  I will tell you this.

• 11:27Speaker 05

  Just a text poster like the Fiona, Fiona Apple album.

• 11:30Speaker 04

  I, I heard a great story about the Odyssey, which I think I can share because it's, it's, I think I can share.

• 11:37David Sims?

  If it said Homer Simpson wrote it, I think your wires got crossed.

• 11:40Speaker 04

  Oh, wait, oh.

• 11:41Griffin Newman?

  Peter Griffin wrote it.

• 11:44Speaker 04

  Wait, that was a little flashback like this.

• 11:48Speaker 04

  So I was shooting on the Universal lot and I don't know if you've seen this, but on TikTok, there was a lot of footage of the big ship from the Odyssey in the water because they were shooting it in one of the tanks.

• 11:59David Sims?

  All practical, baby.

• 12:00Speaker 04

  All practical, right, yeah. And if you got high enough on a hill or on the top of a parking structure at Universal, you could look down at the boat in the water. Now, when they were shooting, it was very heavily covered because they had a lot of lighting equipment and stuff. Apparently, production was furious that these images of a boat from hundreds and hundreds of feet away.

• 12:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 12:27Speaker 04

  Were released. And this is that post trailer.

• 12:29Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 12:29Speaker 04

  Trailer had been released. We've seen the boat in the trailer.

• 12:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 12:32Speaker 04

  That it was suggested that if they want to continue filming, that Universal would have to build a 75 foot tall wall to block out.

• 12:44David Sims?

  There you go.

• 12:44Speaker 04

  Any lookers on from this process.

• 12:48David Sims?

  Bring in Mr. Nolan's wall.

• 12:50Speaker 04

  And then when they were told that that was impossible to do, because it wasn't just like, it was a large, it was, it wasn't even like a, put up a screen. It was like, oh, build, please build a wall.

• 13:01Griffin Newman?

  Build that wall, Mr. Trump, please build that.

• 13:04Speaker 05

  Please build that wall to protect this ship.

• 13:06Speaker 04

  It was met with great disdain and anger that they could not immediately build a 75 foot tall wall.

• 13:13Griffin Newman?

  If I had been in that room, I have the answer for them. Take that giant minion. Move it over where he wants to go. Universal's got this giant minion.

• 13:21David Sims?

  The whole thing in the sphere.

• 13:21Griffin Newman?

  You can see from the highway.

• 13:23David Sims?

  Seats out.

• 13:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 13:24David Sims?

  I can just read to you the Greek, Greek American actors. First I Googled Greek actors and I got, I think.

• 13:30Speaker 05

  Sure, from Greece, of course.

• 13:31David Sims?

  Good. Jennifer, people we would have thought of Tina Fey.

• 13:35Speaker 05

  Great.

• 13:36David Sims?

  Comes up right away, obviously.

• 13:37Speaker 05

  Uh, someone that you guys have struggled to name in the past, Melina Kana Karides.

• 13:41David Sims?

  Melina Kana Karides is about seven.

• 13:42Griffin Newman?

  Struggle to literally name.

• 13:44David Sims?

  Seven rows down here, but she's in there.

• 13:46Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 13:46David Sims?

  John Stamos.

• 13:47Speaker 05

  Oh, classic Greek yogurt.

• 13:50Speaker 04

  Now, I'd like to see him in the other.

• 13:51David Sims?

  This one, this one I didn't know. Hank Azaria?

• 13:54Speaker 05

  Didn't know that either.

• 13:55David Sims?

  Uh, is he like maybe?

• 13:56Speaker 05

  Maybe half?

• 13:57David Sims?

  Half? Let's see.

• 13:58Speaker 05

  I would be surprised.

• 13:59David Sims?

  His grandparents on both sides are Sephardic Jews from Thessaloniki.

• 14:02Speaker 05

  I love it. My dad's from Thessaloniki.

• 14:05Griffin Newman?

  Two quarters makes a half.

• 14:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 14:06David Sims?

  Now Olympia Dukakis, who is dead?

• 14:08Speaker 05

  One of the greats, R I P.

• 14:09Griffin Newman?

  He's one of the greats. That's pretty embarrassing of, there's maybe not an actor with a Greer name than Olympia Dukakis.

• 14:15David Sims?

  But I mean, like Nolan's not gonna, he could do a lot, but he's not gonna revive her from.

• 14:19Griffin Newman?

  You're skirting the issue, David.

• 14:21Speaker 04

  Dimitri Martin is in it, right? Dimitri Martin is in the movie.

• 14:24David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, he is. He does a PowerPoint.

• 14:26Speaker 05

  He plays guitar.

• 14:27Griffin Newman?

  He's so good. And he made his own costume.

• 14:30David Sims?

  Minu Suvari, I guess I never thought about it, but there you go.

• 14:33Speaker 05

  I didn't know that.

• 14:34David Sims?

  Now, this one surprises me. Betty White? Is she Greek?

• 14:37Speaker 05

  I have no idea.

• 14:38Griffin Newman?

  That must be a stage name then, right?

• 14:41David Sims?

  White? Well, I think White is her married name.

• 14:44Speaker 05

  That's, I mean.

• 14:45David Sims?

  White is her, no, White is her name. Her name is Betty White and her mother's name was Christine Kachikas. And indeed, uh, was Greek.

• 14:57Speaker 05

  I love it.

• 14:58David Sims?

  Okay, all right.

• 14:59Speaker 05

  I love that. She's also dead, cause so cannot appear yet. Unless there's a scene, some scenes with ghosts.

• 15:04Speaker 04

  I mean, but by the way, Nolan has figured out how to bring ghosts back.

• 15:07Speaker 05

  I would, yes, yes.

• 15:08Speaker 04

  But they, but they can't be photographed on IMAX.

• 15:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's the hard thing.

• 15:11Griffin Newman?

  That's because it's too loud and scary.

• 15:13David Sims?

  I was about to say, right? It's not that the, the camera can catch it. They're just like, ah.

• 15:18Speaker 05

  On the episode, you guys even mentioned someone playing Dionysus, which I do play on the Percy Jackson show. That also didn't even remind you of it.

• 15:27David Sims?

  I haven't watched the Percy Jackson show because I've never read the book.

• 15:30Speaker 04

  Is that show full of Greeks?

• 15:31Speaker 05

  It's, I'm the only Greek on that one too.

• 15:34David Sims?

  I was about to say, did they, did they?

• 15:36Griffin Newman?

  You and a plate of fetters, the entire Greek representation.

• 15:40David Sims?

  Um, you know, I apologize.

• 15:43Speaker 05

  Oh, thank you. Apology accepted.

• 15:44Griffin Newman?

  I want to also say I'm sorry. I feel like David's been scurrying this issue a little bit and redirecting it back to, huh, who are other Greeks who should be in the Odyssey?

• 15:52Speaker 05

  You see what he did? He went straight to a document as if the document was to blame.

• 15:56Speaker 04

  Well, he did. He did say that he Googled and got some wrong information.

• 16:00David Sims?

  I was trying to see, it is, oh no, I'm not even on there.

• 16:03Speaker 05

  I, that's what I'm saying.

• 16:05David Sims?

  I might take this up a little bit. Why are you not on here? Why is Chris Angel on here?

• 16:10Speaker 04

  But he would be great.

• 16:11Speaker 05

  That's not surprising.

• 16:11Griffin Newman?

  He would be good.

• 16:13David Sims?

  Okay, then fine. Then why is Spiro T. Agnew on here? Yes, a famous Greek American. Pretty good actor. Was he?

• 16:19Speaker 04

  He's been in a couple things.

• 16:20David Sims?

  I guess he lied to the American people.

• 16:21Griffin Newman?

  So all those people are above.

• 16:23Speaker 04

  I believe that Spiro T. Agnew was in Barney Miller. One episode.

• 16:26Griffin Newman?

  One episode.

• 16:27David Sims?

  He probably was. He probably was.

• 16:28Speaker 05

  I am shocked.

• 16:28Griffin Newman?

  Michael Chiklis?

• 16:29Speaker 05

  Yeah, Chiklis is Greek. Yep. I'm surprised that Zach isn't like so high. I mean.

• 16:34David Sims?

  Zach is, uh, is third.

• 16:36Speaker 05

  Oh, okay. So you just didn't read it. Oh, okay. Okay. That makes sense.

• 16:39Griffin Newman?

  Uh, who's the first person he said?

• 16:41David Sims?

  Jennifer Aniston.

• 16:42Griffin Newman?

  Jennifer Aniston.

• 16:42David Sims?

  Have you heard of her?

• 16:43Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 16:43Griffin Newman?

  I mean, I do feel like.

• 16:44Speaker 05

  Very Greek.

• 16:44David Sims?

  How many times have you played a Greek guy?

• 16:46Speaker 05

  Um, a handful.

• 16:47David Sims?

  Is Raffi canonically Greek?

• 16:48Speaker 05

  No. Oh, no. I've played everything else and Greek only a handful of times.

• 16:52David Sims?

  I was about to say, I feel like.

• 16:53Griffin Newman?

  You got the Shalub career.

• 16:54Speaker 05

  Oh, very much so. Very much so.

• 16:56David Sims?

  They just drew a big circle on that world map and you were like, you're here.

• 17:00Speaker 05

  Yes. Anything that the Mediterranean touches, you can play. Is, is what casting directors decided. And then they decided later, you can't do that.

• 17:11David Sims?

  We are just gonna.

• 17:12Speaker 05

  Forget that. Forget that. Forget that.

• 17:14Griffin Newman?

  No, I, I think, I, I am sorry. I apologize.

• 17:18Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 17:18Griffin Newman?

  And I think especially because I think the ultimate insult of it, if I can take ownership for this, is not only were we listing prominent Greek American actors and we forgot to mention our friend.

• 17:28Speaker 05

  Not even proud.

• 17:29Speaker 04

  Friend of the show.

• 17:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 17:30Griffin Newman?

  Friend of the show, friend of our personhood, but also that in compiling the list that we left you off of, we say to Stavi like, yeah, this list is pretty shitty. You could very quickly be the greatest Greek actor in Hollywood.

• 17:44Speaker 05

  Well, he could.

• 17:45Griffin Newman?

  He could.

• 17:45Speaker 05

  I'm not taking anything away from Stavi, who is fantastic.

• 17:48Speaker 04

  Here's what I want to say. I like Stavi a lot. I've been on his show. He's a great guy. I think this is a Stavi issue because he has, he doesn't know that you're Greek.

• 17:57Griffin Newman?

  Stavi should know.

• 17:57David Sims?

  You're saying he should have.

• 17:59Griffin Newman?

  Stavi should know who's on his block.

• 18:01Speaker 04

  You know.

• 18:01Speaker 05

  Here's what I'll say. I'm not laying this at Stavi's feet only because I've never even met the man.

• 18:06Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 18:06Speaker 05

  And, and David and Griffin and I text frequently.

• 18:09Griffin Newman?

  You're not leaving it at his sandaled toga.

• 18:12David Sims?

  We need to bridge this to my.

• 18:14Speaker 05

  Oh, I'm sorry.

• 18:14David Sims?

  I guess it's in LA, New York.

• 18:16Speaker 05

  It is, I think it is in LA.

• 18:17Griffin Newman?

  But you're here in New York. You're here in studio.

• 18:19Speaker 05

  Maybe we will make this happen.

• 18:20Speaker 04

  I don't think you could handle recording at Stavi's.

• 18:24Speaker 05

  Is it? Oh, why?

• 18:25Speaker 04

  It's in his apartment and I think that you would have a problem with it.

• 18:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, maybe.

• 18:28Speaker 04

  I, I.

• 18:29Griffin Newman?

  He also lives in an egg factory.

• 18:30Speaker 05

  Oh, no.

• 18:31Speaker 04

  I've been there and I loved it. I had a great time.

• 18:33Griffin Newman?

  Not a chicken coop, an egg factory.

• 18:34Speaker 04

  Of all the things, I have a.

• 18:35David Sims?

  So Paul knows Jason very well and like works with him. So Paul seems to have insight here.

• 18:40Speaker 04

  I, I could say to you that I don't think that.

• 18:42Speaker 05

  I trust Paul.

• 18:43Speaker 04

  Yeah. I would not say you could feel comfortable going.

• 18:45Speaker 05

  I trust Paul to know exactly what, what I'm capable of, of withstanding.

• 18:49Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 18:49Speaker 04

  A lovely experience in every way, but it's, it's gonna, gonna be right up your alley. The show will be great.

• 18:56Speaker 05

  You guys will also, I think, and I know, I'm not at all interested in making you feel bad. I'm also just.

• 19:03Griffin Newman?

  No, we gotta, we gotta wear this like Flavor Flav wears a clock.

• 19:05Speaker 05

  Here's the other thing, as I walk away from this, I'm also, just so everybody knows, I'm not at all interested in this episode going long, in this being some sort of record setter. I'm here to talk about the movie and that's that.

• 19:16Griffin Newman?

  Train on the track.

• 19:17Speaker 05

  I will say that I know, oh, sorry, Paul. I know that you guys don't necessarily listen to our podcast, but you overlapped recently with our podcast because we, in a recent episode, started establishing a group of young actors who are all in a cohort together.

• 19:35David Sims?

  Okay.

• 19:35Speaker 05

  That we are calling.

• 19:36David Sims?

  Pussy posse type, right.

• 19:38Speaker 05

  That we, this is how it began, that we are calling the Geek Squad.

• 19:41Speaker 04

  Or the, or the G Squad.

• 19:43Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 19:43Speaker 04

  But the G Squad is technically a, a, a band, a K-pop band.

• 19:47David Sims?

  And we are also, it's also Ryan Gosling, fucking Giovanni Ribise. I'm trying to think of who was in Gangster Squad. Mackie. Mackie. Grizzly Chantin's the villain. He is. Yeah. Mickey Cohen. Yeah, I think.

• 20:03Speaker 05

  We went down with Jake Johnson, we went down a rabbit hole of who's in the Geek Squad and who's not. And I feel like you guys did a similar, you guys were creating a similar list. So this is something I believe we could really team up on.

• 20:16Speaker 04

  And what we, what we have kind of established in our.

• 20:19David Sims?

  Which episode was this in, by the way?

• 20:20Speaker 04

  This was in the, it was Grizzly to the Revenge.

• 20:23David Sims?

  Got it, cool.

• 20:24Speaker 04

  And it is primarily a conversation of who is in the Geek Squad.

• 20:29Speaker 05

  Okay. And we're talking Jacob Elordi, we're talking Florence Pugh, we're talking Shalamar.

• 20:34Speaker 04

  There's been a lot of conversation because it was sort of like, who belongs, who doesn't? Like, we feel like, like Zendaya is out of the Geek, like, she's kind of a.

• 20:44David Sims?

  Too cool.

• 20:44Speaker 04

  She's on the, but the Geek Squad is not representing nerds.

• 20:49David Sims?

  Right, no, I understand what you're saying.

• 20:51Speaker 04

  There's not that.

• 20:52David Sims?

  But like Glenn Powell's not in the.

• 20:54Speaker 05

  He's not Geek Squad.

• 20:55Speaker 04

  No way.

• 20:55Griffin Newman?

  But, but see, I think what you're getting at here is.

• 20:57David Sims?

  He's just sort of a peer of these guys.

• 20:59Griffin Newman?

  Did you see Bratz, the Andrew McCarthy Brat Pack documentary?

• 21:03Speaker 04

  I'm obsessed with it.

• 21:04David Sims?

  I saw the movie about the dolls with the big heads.

• 21:06Speaker 04

  Yes, we did.

• 21:06David Sims?

  We saw that too. We saw that. Definitely something you guys discovered.

• 21:11Griffin Newman?

  Yes. But I feel like they all talk about that, that they got labeled in this way, these people who kept working together and would socialize together, even if not all 15 are going out to the same bar every night. And that some of them said, I don't want to be lumped in with this.

• 21:24Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 21:25Griffin Newman?

  And I feel like Zendaya.

• 21:26Speaker 05

  That's what we were talking about.

• 21:26Griffin Newman?

  Exactly. I feel like Zendaya is kind of the Tom Cruise. I would say she's in there, except she has like absolved herself from it.

• 21:34David Sims?

  But Tommy Holland is Geek Squad.

• 21:36Speaker 04

  Well, we were talking.

• 21:36Griffin Newman?

  Well, he would be if he wasn't with her.

• 21:38Speaker 04

  Well, that's what I think too. There's a, there's a few things of what we're trying to figure out is, and this is the issue.

• 21:43David Sims?

  We will talk about the.

• 21:44Griffin Newman?

  This is a tight episode.

• 21:46Speaker 05

  The fact that, and by the way, our fans absolutely hated it.

• 21:49Speaker 04

  What is, no, you know what, I just pushed it.

• 21:51Griffin Newman?

  They hated the Geek Squad.

• 21:52David Sims?

  I have a heart out at some point.

• 21:54Speaker 04

  Okay, I pushed it. I said to Molly.

• 21:56Speaker 05

  You still have a family. Molly, huh?

• 21:57David Sims?

  He's still doing that?

• 21:58Griffin Newman?

  He's still doing that.

• 21:59Speaker 04

  The minute it started.

• 22:00David Sims?

  You wouldn't believe it.

• 22:01Griffin Newman?

  It's such a crazy degree to which he's doing it, Jason.

• 22:04Speaker 04

  Molly said to me, she said, remember you have a heart out. And I said, you got it. And then that's my assistant. And then, uh, and as maybe two minutes into the podcast, I texted her and said, drop that.

• 22:14Speaker 05

  I canceled. I canceled.

• 22:15David Sims?

  Drop that out.

• 22:15Speaker 05

  I canceled my four o'clock. I was like, get rid of it.

• 22:18David Sims?

  I think we could have gotten you out of here.

• 22:20Griffin Newman?

  I don't think so. I don't think so.

• 22:21David Sims?

  Maybe not gotten you somewhere else at four.

• 22:23Griffin Newman?

  We haven't even started the podcast yet. We gotta talk about the whole squad.

• 22:26Speaker 04

  Can I tell you the one thing? I had a dream about the podcast and this is, this is what I said.

• 22:32David Sims?

  Seek therapy.

• 22:33Speaker 04

  Uh, yeah. I, I, what did I, I said, um, I said, this is the Coen Brothers Mad TV.

• 22:40David Sims?

  This thing. Absolutely.

• 22:41Speaker 04

  This movie.

• 22:42David Sims?

  Great. That's great.

• 22:43Speaker 04

  And, and that was, and that was in my dream and I'm bringing it to.

• 22:47David Sims?

  I love it. I say this in a nice way. It also feels like them digging through the fridge a little bit. And I don't mean that in a bad way, but just being like, huh? We have these like leftover noodles.

• 22:55Griffin Newman?

  But I had this exact same thought on this rewatch. I went, we all know. We all discussed this as the Coen Brothers anthology film. Is this more the Coen Brothers sketch comedy movie?

• 23:06Speaker 04

  Yes, right.

• 23:07Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Is it there Monty Python and the Meaning of Life?

• 23:09Speaker 04

  That's what I think.

• 23:10Griffin Newman?

  It is a series of sketches built around.

• 23:12David Sims?

  That are thematic wheeling. Like you just read the Lord of the Rings and then there's the appendixes. The appendixes are interesting. But it's sort of them being like, and here's like, yeah, here's what's left.

• 23:21Speaker 04

  It's like, it's like thumbnail sketches, which I think it's like, when you see a great art exhibit, you might see like, oh, this is what they did. You know, before they drew the Mona Lisa or you see elements of things. And I feel like.

• 23:31David Sims?

  Weird. It's just Leonardo da Vinci's dick?

• 23:33Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 23:35Speaker 04

  It's a lot of dick based.

• 23:36Speaker 05

  With like, just a clever smile.

• 23:39David Sims?

  It feels like this dick's following me around the room.

• 23:41Speaker 05

  The thing for me is like, like the, the, how it he holes always looking at you regardless of where you are.

• 23:46David Sims?

  All right.

• 23:47Speaker 05

  That urethra is following me.

• 23:49Speaker 04

  Now that should be a blank check poster. A draw, a small drawing of.

• 23:53David Sims?

  Da Vinci's dick?

• 23:54Speaker 04

  Da Vinci's dick.

• 23:55David Sims?

  Da Vinci's dick.

• 23:55Speaker 05

  Um.

• 23:56David Sims?

  That's actually.

• 23:56Speaker 04

  With multiple arms.

• 23:58David Sims?

  It's a New Down Brown novel and that's important. And Tom Hanks is circling and what were you gonna say?

• 24:04Speaker 04

  He's gonna come back to reprise that character?

• 24:07Speaker 05

  And he's meet, it's a crossover with the National Treasure movie.

• 24:11Speaker 04

  Oh, I love it.

• 24:12David Sims?

  That would be funny if they both are like in parallel trying to get something.

• 24:15Speaker 05

  At odds with each other.

• 24:17David Sims?

  Yeah, kinda like a 21 Jump Street Men in Black thing.

• 24:20Speaker 05

  I wanted those things. I wanted that. My friend Rodney Rothman was gonna write that movie. Like, I'm desperate for somebody to do one of those.

• 24:27Griffin Newman?

  Taylor's been talking it up again recently. He's been saying, I would do it tomorrow. The script is great. We still talk about it.

• 24:33Speaker 04

  Here's what I think was interesting, and without having seen Predator: Badlands, the premise is, you know, the Predator-

• 24:40Speaker 05

  Predator is in the movie Badlands.

• 24:41Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 24:42Speaker 05

  And it's very slow and very dramatic.

• 24:45Griffin Newman?

  I'm waiting for Predator: Days of Heaven. That's when I think they're really gonna crack.

• 24:49Speaker 04

  Predator and Redline.

• 24:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 24:50Speaker 04

  The, but there's a, it's, there's a Waylon-

• 24:54Speaker 05

  There's Sam Shepard characters just played by a predator?

• 24:57Speaker 04

  Well, I heard. The, uh, there's a Waylon Utani robot.

• 25:04Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 25:05Speaker 04

  In Predator: Badlands. And I love that, like, that kind of subtle crossover is really nice, too, because it builds a universe without having to, like, jam them in there, you know? And I feel like, just like, letting universes exist are fun. And I feel like, you know, I think that that, we miss out on that. But now that everything's owned by three places, it feels like you would have a lot more-

• 25:24David Sims?

  Paul, please, four places. Come on.

• 25:28Griffin Newman?

  Hold on, and breaking news, it's now two.

• 25:31Speaker 05

  Oh, boy.

• 25:32Griffin Newman?

  It went from four to two.

• 25:34Speaker 05

  This movie, this watch, I absolutely, like all of these movies that I've been rewatching with you guys, some, you know, these are, for me, like, the filmmakers of my gen, of my lifetime. You know what I mean? The people for whom I started when I was a teenager, watching them, discovering them and watching those first bunch of movies. Miller's Crossing was the poster that hung in my college dorm. Like, truly, the number of times I said to people, take your flunky and dangle, is like shocking. Like, I just was obsessed with the Coen brothers, and it helped that they never- With a few exceptions, they never really faltered and they constantly were exploring

• 26:14Speaker 05

  and examining stuff that I also was interested in detective novels, noir, shaggy detectives, like cruelty, man's vices.

• 26:24Griffin Newman?

  Genre rifts as means to interrogate the human condition and existentialism.

• 26:29Speaker 04

  And I would argue that even the ones where they miss, it was from a pure reason.

• 26:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 26:33Speaker 04

  Like, this is my argument here, is I do believe that Netflix gave them a lot of money because it's early time and Netflix and they were like, we want to make a big.

• 26:42David Sims?

  They want the cred.

• 26:43Speaker 04

  We want a cred and I feel like.

• 26:44Griffin Newman?

  Let's also call out this is Anna Purna.

• 26:46Speaker 04

  Okay, yeah.

• 26:47Griffin Newman?

  Kind of forgotten.

• 26:48Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 26:49Griffin Newman?

  Very important power player in the 2010s of cinema.

• 26:52Speaker 05

  Megan Ellison's company that was gonna save, that was gonna save cinema by bankrolling all of the young auteurs who the studios were like, no more, we're gonna give you money.

• 27:02Griffin Newman?

  We'll circle back to this in a major way, but right, there used to be a better Ellison child who with her father's money said.

• 27:07David Sims?

  She still exists.

• 27:07Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 27:08David Sims?

  Anna Purna still exists.

• 27:09Griffin Newman?

  She kind of exists in the shadows, though. Like, she is largely pulled back.

• 27:13Speaker 05

  Do they, do they not have Bond anymore?

• 27:15Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 27:16Speaker 05

  They don't? Okay.

• 27:16Griffin Newman?

  No, they don't have anything.

• 27:17Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 27:18Speaker 04

  But I felt like this is a movie and I was looking at it and trying to think about it, not, I don't want to say it in a, in a, in a way that is mean, but it feels like it has a slight element of a cash grab where it's like, we're gonna get a lot of money, let's go do this thing that we kind of want to do, but we don't really have, but we can kind of, because it's not in the theater, we can kind of go and make this thing that is a little less formed than our other things. And I actually think that that was great because you get these like seven great vignettes. And it's like, it's the only, that's in a weird way, how I feel like streaming movies should be. It's like, oh, this is stuff that you can't.

• 27:53David Sims?

  It should either be like bargain basement action garbage, right? Like DTV kind of stuff, or right, like, kind of like, this is the squarest peg.

• 28:01Griffin Newman?

  Pure experimental.

• 28:02David Sims?

  And it will not fit, like, because this is an uncommercial movie.

• 28:04Griffin Newman?

  Well, the West End and the World of Dolls were kind of a similar exercise.

• 28:08David Sims?

  Same rate, great comp.

• 28:09Griffin Newman?

  And in that, they did an even weirder release strategy with them.

• 28:12Speaker 05

  Well, they split them up.

• 28:13Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 28:13Speaker 05

  Well, they broke them up. You can listen to, you can watch them rather as individual pieces, which I would love. If this was as well, and in that way that you're calling it a sketch movie, which I agree.

• 28:22Griffin Newman?

  Cause every segment has a punchline. That's what really jumped out to me this time.

• 28:26Speaker 05

  Funny. These are so funny in the way that the Coens, that Coen tone is so on display here. And the reality is like, I love the wraparounds because it is like the Coens, I feel like are always harkening back to those things of their youth. And this is just Western frontier stories, a book of short stories that are pulpy and fun that might appear in like Field and Stream Magazine.

• 28:49Griffin Newman?

  Color prints.

• 28:49Speaker 05

  Yes, exactly.

• 28:50Speaker 04

  And I feel like it, it comes out of a time, if I'm, correct me if I'm wrong, but in that time where even like Quentin Tarantino's playing around with like, doing this like with hateful aid or like.

• 29:02Speaker 04

  Yes. And hateful eight does another thing when it goes to Netflix. I was thinking about that where when that goes to Netflix, he chapterizes it and makes it longer. It makes it longer, but more of a TV show. And it's like, interesting. I love that breaking of form. And that's like the benefit of streaming to me.

• 29:19Speaker 05

  The trailer for his now connected Kill Bill.

• 29:23Speaker 04

  Oh, yes.

• 29:23Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 29:24Speaker 04

  Was playing at the Vista.

• 29:26David Sims?

  Whole bloody affair.

• 29:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, I'm thrilled.

• 29:28Griffin Newman?

  Proper wide thirty five and seventy release in December.

• 29:31David Sims?

  You know, people pay money.

• 29:34Speaker 04

  And it was at the Vista. It was packed all the time, but it had French subtitles because it only aired.

• 29:39David Sims?

  Only right time they ever did it was in Cannes, right?

• 29:41Speaker 05

  Oh, that's cool.

• 29:42Griffin Newman?

  But yes, no, it's the kind of experimentation I would like to see. And, and twenty nineteen, twenty eighteen, a moment where you're like, oh my God, there's things like Anna Perna coming into the world, going to filmmaker, saying, what's the thing that no one else will let you make? Giving them the money. And when no one else would release it, Netflix goes, why not? Like, it felt like these, these kind of maverick forces were actually opening up and letting weirder stuff get made. And as often is the case, it was like, that's what they use to legitimize themselves before they could just fucking get out of that business.

• 30:14Speaker 05

  Remember when Amazon's entire first batch of shows were all indie filmmakers? And like interesting people like Steve Conrad.

• 30:22David Sims?

  With Stillman, right? Like all, all basically like going to all.

• 30:26Griffin Newman?

  It was all the eighties.

• 30:27Speaker 05

  Joey Solomon.

• 30:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Who had lost their.

• 30:29Speaker 05

  And then they were like, JK, we make Lord of the Rings for a billion dollars and that's all we do.

• 30:35David Sims?

  Good.

• 30:36Speaker 04

  I mean, that really, we've been talking about. Everybody.

• 30:40Griffin Newman?

  I can't stop watching. I'm watching it right now.

• 30:41David Sims?

  People stop me on the street and shake me to talk about the plot points of.

• 30:46Griffin Newman?

  The stick. Where is the stick coming from?

• 30:52David Sims?

  David? Yes. Mmm.

• 30:57David Sims?

  Is that the C S cow?

• 30:58Griffin Newman?

  The C S cow is back.

• 30:59David Sims?

  Haven't heard from her in a while.

• 31:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, she's reactivated because she's horny for chicken fingers.

• 31:06David Sims?

  Okay.

• 31:06Griffin Newman?

  And she's excited for the streaming debut of Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma.

• 31:11David Sims?

  Wow.

• 31:11Griffin Newman?

  The cow likes chicken.

• 31:13David Sims?

  Remember cow and chicken? Let's look it up while you while you tell the the great listeners about the great stuff on movie.

• 31:20Griffin Newman?

  Well, MUBI is a global film company bringing great cinema to the world and to you. Curating and elevating visionary filmmaking, all handpicked, always. That's what MUBI does. Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma, one of my favorite movies of the year.

• 31:33David Sims?

  Absolutely.

• 31:34Griffin Newman?

  You can feel the rush now at home. There's a hole at the bottom of the lake where the movies come from.

• 31:40David Sims?

  That is a line in the movie.

• 31:41Griffin Newman?

  In the new movie from Jane Schomburg, Past and Future Guest.

• 31:44David Sims?

  Past and Future Guest, a great filmmaker, a great podcast guest, a great friend.

• 31:49Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 31:49David Sims?

  Um, this movie rocks. It's got, of course, it stars Hannah Einbinder and Gillian Anderson.

• 31:55Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 31:56David Sims?

  Legends, and I tip my cap, but Zach Cherry.

• 31:58Griffin Newman?

  Performances, friend of the show.

• 31:59David Sims?

  Friend of the show, Zach Cherry.

• 32:01Griffin Newman?

  Zach Cherry.

• 32:01David Sims?

  Also in it.

• 32:02Griffin Newman?

  This is true.

• 32:03David Sims?

  Such a cool movie. It won the Queer Pal McCann. If you haven't heard about this movie, I don't know what's going on with you, but like, it obviously has, it was out in theaters this summer and now it's on MUBI.

• 32:14Griffin Newman?

  Hannah Einbinder plays the filmmaker attempting to reboot the Camp Miasma franchise, trying to track down the original final girl from the first movie to to make some sort of legacy sequel, who's played by Gillian Anderson, who lives at the summer camp.

• 32:28David Sims?

  Yes. And, you know, and then they hang out and it's regular.

• 32:32Griffin Newman?

  What happens? It's it's one of those Hollywood's out of ideas. No, it's very much a movie about Hollywood being out of ideas while being an example of there still being new stories to tell.

• 32:44David Sims?

  It's now streaming exclusively on MUBI and you can try MUBI free for 30 days at MUBI.com slash blank check. That's M U B I dot com slash blank check for a whole month of great cinema for free.

• 32:56Griffin Newman?

  They got so many great movies on there to watch, but worth it for 30 days for Miasma.

• 33:02David Sims?

  Damn right.

• 33:07Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 33:08David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 33:09Griffin Newman?

  It's not cuffing season for me, it's hosi season for me. And this year, that meant finally upgrading my new mattress from Lisa.

• 33:16David Sims?

  Lisa.

• 33:17Griffin Newman?

  It's supportive, comfortable, and just what my body needs after a long day. It makes crawling into bed on a chilly fall night feel like luxury.

• 33:25David Sims?

  Yeah, I have a Lisa too. They've got a lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses tailored to how you sleep.

• 33:31Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 33:31David Sims?

  Each mattress is designed with specific sleep positions and feel preferences in mind. They've got eco-friendly materials.

• 33:38Griffin Newman?

  Maybe you hear eco-friendly and you go, oh, but I'm gonna sacrifice comfort.

• 33:41David Sims?

  No.

• 33:42Griffin Newman?

  Nope.

• 33:43David Sims?

  They've been awarded best hybrid and best memory foam mattresses by New York Times' Wirecutter. They're featured by West Elm as their go-to mattress partner. And they work with local nonprofits across the US to donate thousands of mattresses each year to families in need. Over 43,000 mattresses donated to date. Go to leesa.com for up to 30% off mattresses. Plus, get an extra $50 off with promo code blank check. Exclusive for our listeners. That's L-E-E-S-A.com promo code blank check for up to 30% off mattresses, plus an extra $50 off. Let them know we sent you in the survey after checkout. Lisa.com promo code blank check.

• 34:30Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 34:30David Sims?

  Yes.

• 34:31Griffin Newman?

  Shop.com is giving away $1 million in Shop Cash.

• 34:35David Sims?

  Wow. Shop has all the stores you love and lets you track every order in one spot.

• 34:40Griffin Newman?

  I love that. It's very convenient.

• 34:42David Sims?

  And now, 1,000 shoppers are each gonna win $1,000 in Shop Cash, just in time for the holidays.

• 34:49Griffin Newman?

  You get gifts for everyone on your list, or get yourself something a little merry and bright. Find exactly what you're looking for at shop.com.

• 34:58David Sims?

  Uh, got stocking stuffers, maybe the sickest luxury items. Cookware to kicks, toys to high tech, even tinsel and tree toppers. Type in what you're looking for to instantly search every shop at once. Okay, that's shop.com. You can just go click around, find brands you love, search across all the stores, track every order in one spot.

• 35:21Griffin Newman?

  From cult favorites to the world's biggest brands, score suite deals and check out fast all at shop.com. Enter to win the $1 million shop cash giveaway from now until November 1st. Just go to shop.com. There are so many ways to win. That's shop.com. Shopping designed around you. No purchase necessary. Restrictions apply. Official rules available at shop.com.

• 35:50David Sims?

  You know what, Griffin? Why don't you introduce the podcast?

• 35:52Speaker 05

  Oh, do we have to?

• 35:54David Sims?

  We should just.

• 35:54Griffin Newman?

  There's something more important we have to do first. We have to revisit the conversation about the Geek Squad because for me.

• 35:59Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. David's so upset. David's like, I thought we were, I thought we, I thought I'd successfully moved him off of it.

• 36:06Griffin Newman?

  Films were kind of the centering force of the Brat Pack. They started the conversation. We have to finish it.

• 36:12David Sims?

  You can't blame our guests.

• 36:13Speaker 05

  To your point, what we were talking about was that a lot of people in that documentary and don't want to be associated with the Brat Pack are so butthurt that they are lumped into this thing. And some people are like, yeah, who cares? They call this the Brat Pack. Who cares?

• 36:25Speaker 04

  The Brat Pack to me was the funniest documentary because.

• 36:28Griffin Newman?

  Helped all of our careers.

• 36:28Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yes. And like, but, but not Andrew McCarthy. And that's who's making the documentary.

• 36:34Griffin Newman?

  The one who pushed back against it the most, which is what's interesting.

• 36:36Speaker 04

  Right. Cause no one thought they were brat.

• 36:38Speaker 05

  Clearly obsessed with it.

• 36:39Speaker 04

  Yes. Well, cause he believes that his career was hurt by it.

• 36:43David Sims?

  Right. And I feel like. He got put in a bucket and he resents it.

• 36:46Speaker 04

  Right. And, and, but you could argue.

• 36:47Speaker 05

  Oh, put me in a bucket. Put me in a bucket of Greek actors. How about put me in a Greek American actor bucket that even my friends might recognize.

• 36:56Speaker 04

  You'll never think this is gonna be full of yogurt that's very heavy.

• 37:00Speaker 05

  So much oikos in here.

• 37:02Speaker 04

  But yeah, I feel like, um, like I, I feel like that's like, he also made bad movies. Like, and that's the other thing too. It's not like, oh, Andrew McCarthy made these three great films. And here's the biggest joke of it all. Saint Elmo's Fire, uh, not a good movie.

• 37:15David Sims?

  Saint Elmo's Fire is ass. That movie sucks. I, people are nostalgic for it. And obviously I wasn't there, so I just watched it now.

• 37:21Speaker 04

  People of a certain age were like, this speaks to us, but it wasn't good. It doesn't last. It wasn't like, these are great actors. It was like, this is a shitty movie, but it captured a moment where we actually wanted to see all these people together.

• 37:32Griffin Newman?

  Well, there's a combination of, I think the word brat felt pejorative to them and they didn't like the idea that they felt like it was taking them less seriously as actors.

• 37:40Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 37:40Griffin Newman?

  Unsurprisingly, you see Demi Moore, who's just like, look, this is an industry that looks for handles and hooks. Like I, if, if they want to use this to like identify me, then I'm run with it. And I'm, I'm working harder to prove myself beyond that, rather than fighting it off.

• 37:55David Sims?

  But these labels.

• 37:56Griffin Newman?

  Kurt Rabello seemed like so, like comfortable and healthy.

• 37:59Speaker 04

  Oh my God. It was the best time of my life. And his response to it was comically hilarious. Like, a- and I love that Judd Nelson was like, I'm not going to even dignify this with being in.

• 38:10Griffin Newman?

  I'm not picking up the phone.

• 38:11Speaker 04

  I'm not, yeah, won't even be in this.

• 38:12Griffin Newman?

  Sorry. What were you saying, David?

• 38:13David Sims?

  Well, these names are usually someone like Frat Pack was also, it's like, it's a bit of a weird label. Geek Squad isn't exactly like the nicest thing to call people.

• 38:21Speaker 04

  Geek Squad, the reason why we call it Geek Squad, because it does, it may be confusing. We're using Geek Squad as the best.

• 38:27Speaker 05

  The person that bites the head off of the chicken at the.

• 38:29Griffin Newman?

  Oh, the weirdos you're saying.

• 38:31Speaker 05

  No, no, no.

• 38:31Griffin Newman?

  It wasn't, it wasn't.

• 38:32Speaker 04

  We were calling it more like the best by Geek Squad because they're people who help older people use their technology. So these are young actors who are bringing older people into this. They're like.

• 38:43Griffin Newman?

  I'm rubbing my hands. So yeah, I get it. I see the vision.

• 38:46Speaker 05

  You know what the, you know what the Geek Squad does? The Geek Squad plays Bob Dylan so that the boomers go to the movies.

• 38:52David Sims?

  Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And it's like, I like that, I like that kid. He's, he's good.

• 38:58Speaker 05

  You know, you know who I like? Elvis, the kid who played Elvis.

• 39:01David Sims?

  That guy was good. He looks like Elvis to me.

• 39:03Speaker 05

  Austin Butler, Geek Squad.

• 39:04Griffin Newman?

  We've talked about it a little bit.

• 39:06Speaker 04

  You do? I have, yes.

• 39:07Griffin Newman?

  Can I just say this before you start reading the list? Since I have talked about this, I feel like never on mic, but for me, the core of what you're talking about, I've never had a name for it, is three concentric circles that makes up the majority.

• 39:18Speaker 04

  I agree.

• 39:18Griffin Newman?

  It is the cast of Dune.

• 39:21Speaker 04

  Hmm. Yes.

• 39:21Griffin Newman?

  The younger cast of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.

• 39:23Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 39:24Griffin Newman?

  And Euphoria. Those are the three central rings in the circus.

• 39:28Speaker 04

  And you are, that is perfectly said, and I believe that that's where we.

• 39:33Speaker 05

  There might be a few outliers, but for the most part, you got it.

• 39:36David Sims?

  Shalhoub being the number one where any Hollywood producer would be like, zero things about this guy communicate. A-list movie star to me. How does he never fail?

• 39:46Speaker 04

  Well, this, this is the, like, I'll give you a couple of the names.

• 39:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 39:49Speaker 04

  Timothy Chalamet, right? Obviously, right there. Austin Butler, right?

• 39:54Speaker 05

  The Bear. Did we decide, oh, no, we took the bear out.

• 39:57Speaker 04

  We took, yeah, Jeremy out, right out.

• 39:59Speaker 05

  Because of Shameless.

• 40:00Speaker 04

  But we put in a Lord, a Lordy.

• 40:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 40:02Speaker 04

  Uh, we, Margaret Qualley.

• 40:04Griffin Newman?

  Big time.

• 40:05Speaker 04

  Uh, Jenna Ortega, which we felt like was, you know, um, and then, and there was, and then there was these debates, like, we, we already said no to Glenn Powell. He's not a part of that crew.

• 40:15Speaker 05

  No.

• 40:15Speaker 04

  Sydney Sweeney, not a part of that crew, even though she's in.

• 40:17Speaker 05

  Really?

• 40:18Speaker 04

  She's in, she's, cause it's like, you need to be more.

• 40:20David Sims?

  She's kind of doing her own thing.

• 40:22Speaker 04

  With that new movie, the boxing movie, it may change it, but I feel like she's on the, she's over here.

• 40:26Griffin Newman?

  She's also in two out of the three.

• 40:28Speaker 05

  She is.

• 40:28Griffin Newman?

  Of the circles.

• 40:29Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 40:30Griffin Newman?

  And I, I also, I'm like, is she like Cusack, where you're like?

• 40:33Speaker 05

  Oh, interesting.

• 40:34Griffin Newman?

  He was in the movies with them and was doing his own thing that was very lateral to them, but you don't really put him in there.

• 40:40Speaker 05

  She's also best friends with the Pivens.

• 40:42Griffin Newman?

  Best friends with the Pivens.

• 40:44Speaker 05

  Chicago actress.

• 40:47Speaker 05

  Yeah, Geek Squad.

• 40:47Griffin Newman?

  Only post great politics.

• 40:49Speaker 05

  Oh, my God.

• 40:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 40:50Speaker 05

  Geek Squad is like, and you're right, it is all of these people and all of the kind of infrastructure around them that is making all of these nonsense movies.

• 40:58Griffin Newman?

  And I think it's important that they work together a lot, that they feel like a class that has risen together, that they're unified by certain filmmakers and certain subjects and whatever. Because that's where these things happen of like, there's an energy being transmitted at times, the collaboration, at times the competitiveness.

• 41:14Speaker 04

  Well, it was interesting because we talked about Nicholas Holt and we're like, well, what, does he fall into this? And we're like, not really, because he's been around too long.

• 41:20Speaker 05

  I think like Nick Holt, the Fannings, they've just had huge careers. They're not part of Geek Squad.

• 41:24Griffin Newman?

  And they started young and it also, they were sort of like Geek Squad before there was a Geek Squad. They were sort of running independently because there wasn't.

• 41:32Speaker 05

  To hearken back to True Grit, I don't think Hailey Steinfeld is Geek Squad. There's a great, um, Coen.

• 41:39Griffin Newman?

  Avengers.

• 41:39Speaker 05

  You guys didn't, yeah, that's true. You guys didn't mention this in the episode, but I, I have a couple of Coen stuff that I, from different episodes that I just want to mention.

• 41:46Griffin Newman?

  More bones?

• 41:48Speaker 05

  This is not a bone. This is just one of the things, a couple of things that I've loved in interviews that, like I said, I'm obsessed with the Coens. In True Grit, there is a great fresh air interview with them and they talked about how on True Grit, there were more rules protecting them putting the horses in the cold river than there were protecting them from putting a Hailee Steinfeld.

• 42:10David Sims?

  An underage actor.

• 42:10Speaker 05

  They were like, she could spend more time in the water than the horses. And that that was like a crazy thing. The other thing that I love about them, and this is from years ago, there was a podcast called Creative Screenwriting, where the guy would ask the same questions to screenwriters. And one of which is, what do you do when you come up against writer's block? And the Coens' answer was, we go to our respective offices and we take a nap. And when we wake up, usually one of us has a solution.

• 42:37Speaker 04

  I love that.

• 42:38David Sims?

  And they jacket. They're not saying.

• 42:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, they jacket down.

• 42:41Speaker 04

  You gotta jacket.

• 42:41Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 42:42David Sims?

  You jacket down.

• 42:43Speaker 04

  You gotta jacket down.

• 42:44Speaker 05

  No, that's great.

• 42:45Speaker 04

  You gotta jacket down. You gotta alleviate your erection to then come back and have a more fluid idea.

• 42:49Griffin Newman?

  Leave yourself of your power so you can focus on your art.

• 42:52Speaker 05

  Yep, get the poison out.

• 42:53Griffin Newman?

  Get the poison.

• 42:55Speaker 04

  Now, I guess, oh yeah, go ahead.

• 42:57David Sims?

  Introduce our podcast.

• 43:00Speaker 05

  Quickly.

• 43:00Griffin Newman?

  Grudgingly.

• 43:01Speaker 05

  And our guests. It can happen. It can happen.

• 43:03Griffin Newman?

  It's this blank.

• 43:04Speaker 04

  I think the last time it was an hour and we're only 36 minutes.

• 43:07Speaker 05

  You know, the first time.

• 43:07Griffin Newman?

  We're running ahead of schedule.

• 43:08Speaker 05

  The first time it never happened.

• 43:10Griffin Newman?

  The first time it never happened.

• 43:12Speaker 05

  The first time it never happened.

• 43:12Griffin Newman?

  That's good.

• 43:13Speaker 05

  The first time the show was never introduced.

• 43:15Griffin Newman?

  That's a good podcast.

• 43:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, that is.

• 43:16Griffin Newman?

  That's actually a lead podcast.

• 43:18Speaker 04

  That is.

• 43:18David Sims?

  Was that used cars?

• 43:20Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 43:20Griffin Newman?

  Yes, because used cars, big trouble.

• 43:23David Sims?

  That's it.

• 43:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 43:24Griffin Newman?

  No, well, uh.

• 43:25Speaker 05

  Oh, as the duo.

• 43:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 43:27Griffin Newman?

  As the duo.

• 43:28Speaker 05

  Each of us have done interviews.

• 43:29David Sims?

  You guys haven't been on since Big Trouble?

• 43:31Griffin Newman?

  What's the other one I'm forgetting? There's another one that happened last year.

• 43:33Speaker 04

  There is.

• 43:34Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 43:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 43:35Griffin Newman?

  Last Action Hero.

• 43:36Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 43:36David Sims?

  Oh, that's right.

• 43:36Speaker 05

  Oh, I'm so sorry.

• 43:38David Sims?

  No, you're right. It was on Zoom. Yeah.

• 43:39Speaker 05

  I'm so sorry.

• 43:40Speaker 04

  Well, we've always been on Zoom.

• 43:41David Sims?

  We've been on, which is, it's so great to have you guys in the.

• 43:44Speaker 04

  This is great.

• 43:45Griffin Newman?

  And you came in the stew once before for.

• 43:48Speaker 05

  For a watch along of a James Bond.

• 43:50Griffin Newman?

  Tomorrow Never Dies.

• 43:50David Sims?

  Tomorrow Never Dies. And of course, we talked to Paul a million years ago for Running Scared.

• 43:53Griffin Newman?

  That's true.

• 43:54Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:55Griffin Newman?

  That was the most ever not in person episode.

• 43:57Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 43:58Griffin Newman?

  We carved out an exception only for you.

• 44:00Speaker 04

  I appreciate that. And that was, and I am happy to talk about that movie because I still believe that that is a great template for action comedy.

• 44:07Griffin Newman?

  I agree.

• 44:07Speaker 04

  And it's so hard to find that balance still to this day.

• 44:11Griffin Newman?

  It has gotten worse in the years since we talked about that movie, especially as it's become the domain of streaming services.

• 44:17Speaker 04

  Well, I mean, and I'm gonna tell you, I have not watched it yet. I can speak to it. I'm too scared to watch the Shane. Okay.

• 44:24Speaker 05

  Play Dirty?

• 44:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 44:26Speaker 05

  I've seen it and I'll talk about it. Um, I talked to, uh, yeah, I talked to Ed Brubaker a bunch about it.

• 44:31Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 44:32Griffin Newman?

  The great Ed Brubaker.

• 44:32Speaker 05

  The great, the great. Yes.

• 44:34David Sims?

  The great. Friend of the show. We love him. This is the Shane Black Play Dirty movie that's the.

• 44:38Speaker 05

  That's an adaptation of the Parker, one of the Parker books.

• 44:41Griffin Newman?

  Did you notice I'm not answering the podcast? I got him distracted. Go on.

• 44:44David Sims?

  I just introduced a showing of Kiss Kiss Bang Bang at the Nighthawk this week.

• 44:48Speaker 05

  The greatest.

• 44:49David Sims?

  I was thinking about.

• 44:50Speaker 05

  One of the great, true. Uh, and so, and have you seen Play Dirty?

• 44:53David Sims?

  No, and that's what I was, I was like, I can't believe, he has a movie. I could watch it on my TV anytime.

• 44:58Speaker 04

  But that was my, I was nervous.

• 44:59David Sims?

  I haven't done it yet.

• 45:00Speaker 04

  I was nervous. Like, I didn't wanna.

• 45:02Speaker 05

  I want to recommend the Parker books. I especially want to recommend the Darwin Cook graphic novel adaptations of the Parker books, which are unreal and beautiful. And Ed Brubaker helps put them out.

• 45:14David Sims?

  Rest in peace.

• 45:15Speaker 05

  Um, R I P a legend, Darwin Cook. Um, his Catwoman is amazing. Incredible.

• 45:20Speaker 04

  I love that catwoman.

• 45:21David Sims?

  New Frontiers, like a lot of great shit.

• 45:23Speaker 05

  Next level. Anyway.

• 45:24Speaker 04

  Which I believe New Frontiers is the basis of what James Gunn is going for.

• 45:28David Sims?

  Gunn is drafting off that one.

• 45:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 45:30Griffin Newman?

  Seems like, yeah.

• 45:30David Sims?

  And you smart.

• 45:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think so.

• 45:32Speaker 05

  I really enjoyed Play Dirty. Um, and the, the stuff that didn't work for me felt like some V F X stuff was kind of like mushy and not great. And I ended up being, there were certain moments that I was like, oh, this didn't need to be so V F A. This could have been a smaller moment, but, uh, but nonetheless.

• 45:51David Sims?

  Nice Guys, which I adore.

• 45:53Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 45:53David Sims?

  Has a couple of those things where I'm like.

• 45:55Speaker 05

  This is.

• 45:55David Sims?

  This action sequence didn't mean need to be quite this big.

• 45:58Speaker 05

  It's yes, that this this has a little bit of that.

• 46:01Speaker 04

  Studio notes going make it bigger. And then you can see in the product that he didn't really care to make it bigger. And he's like, yeah, does that work?

• 46:08Speaker 05

  Cause it's still a small time Parker heist kind of grind. And and Wahlberg, it was supposed to be Downey Jr.

• 46:15David Sims?

  Yeah. Downey Jr. Theatrical.

• 46:18Speaker 05

  And and I don't mind that it's not Downey Jr. Because Parker is such a fucking asshole.

• 46:23David Sims?

  Good Wahlberg.

• 46:23Speaker 05

  Parker and Wahlberg, Parker is a brutal, absolute ruthless, humorless, charmless person. And Downey Jr. Is not at all that. And and Wahlberg does a good job of that. But I have seen and heard criticism where people are like, oh, he's just so unlikable. He's just blah, blah, blah. And that's Parker.

• 46:45David Sims?

  But I do feel like that's, do you have any relationship with Wahlberg at this point? I mean, you made the movie.

• 46:49Speaker 05

  From the movie Infinite, where I played the artisan.

• 46:52David Sims?

  You did play the artisan.

• 46:53Speaker 04

  And by the way, again, now I'm going to have to come on with a song and I was in daddy's home.

• 46:57Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 46:58David Sims?

  And that's right. You were in daddy's home. But I mean, is he a guy who's like, hey, Jason, like, come see Parker. That wasn't on me. That was on him. Doesn't seem like his vibe, really.

• 47:06Speaker 05

  He is not at all a person who is like, hey, Jason. And I think if you were to show him my picture and be like, who is this?

• 47:13David Sims?

  Right.

• 47:13Speaker 05

  He would be like, I have no idea.

• 47:15David Sims?

  Would he be like, I might have worked with this guy?

• 47:17Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 47:18David Sims?

  Nobody looks like you.

• 47:19Speaker 04

  You know what?

• 47:20David Sims?

  And you're always changing the way you dress.

• 47:22Speaker 04

  If you've shown a picture of you, I bet you what he would do is pray on it and figure out.

• 47:28David Sims?

  But he has this nervy vibe on screen now that he didn't. I mean, he's always been a little that, but like, I do feel like with him on screen lately, I'm like, are you having fun? Like, you always seem so bummed out.

• 47:41Speaker 04

  This is what I will say about him.

• 47:42David Sims?

  Sure.

• 47:43Speaker 04

  And I, it's with very few actors. They're either great, terrible, or like, you don't know what you're gonna.

• 47:51David Sims?

  Famine. I completely agree.

• 47:52Speaker 04

  And it's like, and and and sometimes you're just like, I don't even understand like, and I think it's a lot about the director. And I think if the director is hard on him or put or really has a point of view, you get a great performance. If it's like Max Payne and it's like, I'm just going to show up and do my thing. Cause Sam Jackson can do that. Sam Jackson.

• 48:09David Sims?

  Max Payne is such a good call.

• 48:13David Sims?

  The whole movie, you can feel him being like, what the fuck is this?

• 48:15Speaker 04

  A hundred percent.

• 48:16David Sims?

  Why am I in this?

• 48:17Speaker 04

  No reason for it. And it's like, and so I feel like that kind of like when he decides he's gonna direct himself, I think that's when you get the bad, uh, Mark Wahlberg.

• 48:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 48:27Speaker 04

  Whereas like Sam Jackson, I think from stories I've heard, will decide to direct himself and

• 48:33Griffin Newman?

  Always delivers.

• 48:34Speaker 04

  Delivers.

• 48:34Griffin Newman?

  I have heard this as well.

• 48:35David Sims?

  I have heard him say out loud at a bar, that motherfucker tried to read my lines to me.

• 48:40Speaker 04

  Oh, my God.

• 48:42David Sims?

  About a director.

• 48:43Griffin Newman?

  The Wahlberg thing that is interesting to me is like, we have covered many films in which an auteur tries to cast him against type to disastrous results, right? Like Truth About Charlie, The Happening, Planet of the Apes to a degree. There was another one I was just thinking about, but like Lovely Bones is obviously one of these that we haven't covered yet, right? And then there's like smart directors.

• 49:04David Sims?

  And we will have to cover it.

• 49:06Griffin Newman?

  We will cover it someday.

• 49:07David Sims?

  That's an F.

• 49:07Griffin Newman?

  Smart directors casting him intelligently, right?

• 49:10Speaker 04

  Right.

• 49:11Griffin Newman?

  Understanding departed is like a great.

• 49:14Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 49:14David Sims?

  But the whole magic of Departed is he doesn't want that role.

• 49:17Griffin Newman?

  Totally.

• 49:18David Sims?

  That's why he's so good in it.

• 49:19Griffin Newman?

  But that's passing smart.

• 49:20David Sims?

  You can feel him looking at Leo being like, I could do what you're doing.

• 49:23Speaker 04

  I should be where you are.

• 49:23Griffin Newman?

  Similar with fucking Boogie Nights. He's never stopped apologizing to Jesus for being in Boogie Nights.

• 49:28Speaker 04

  And it's right.

• 49:29Speaker 05

  The fact that both he and Burt Reynolds do not want to have been in that movie is nuts.

• 49:34David Sims?

  It's like a peak for both of them.

• 49:36Griffin Newman?

  What's fascinating about him is you're like, of course he's bad when directors misunderstand how to use him. And of course he's great when directors are really smart about a slightly unconventional way to use him and to harness his energy. The middle is the part that's confounding where you're like, hey, Mark Wahlberg, play a cop in a movie that costs $40 million. He should be okay at this, right?

• 49:56Speaker 04

  Right.

• 49:57Griffin Newman?

  And he just bottoms out.

• 49:58Speaker 04

  I mean, Spencer, well, I think the reason why I've had a hard time turning on this film is because of Spencer for Hire, which I was like, oh.

• 50:06Speaker 05

  What a miss.

• 50:06Speaker 04

  Cause it seems to me like.

• 50:08Speaker 05

  What a, what an opportunity.

• 50:09Speaker 04

  What, like, that could have been a great fun franchise.

• 50:12Speaker 05

  Those, those books, those stories, hard boiled, Pete Berg, like, I was like, I'm gonna love the Boston.

• 50:19David Sims?

  But that was sort of the beginning of me being like, I think Pete Berg might just not. I used to love the stuff he was doing.

• 50:24Speaker 05

  Well, yeah, when he was a Michael Bay acolyte, you know?

• 50:27Speaker 04

  Pete Berg seems like he likes to fly and LAPD flown helicopters and show off guns on Instagram. Like, you know, not even in a, just in a way like this is cool. Like, it's like, yeah.

• 50:36Griffin Newman?

  When the announcement is Robert Downey Jr. Is re-teaming with Shane Black to do an aptiation of like a legendary noir character for theaters, you're like, that's what I want everyone in that sentence to be doing. And then when it becomes Shane Black is doing a streaming crime movie with Mark Wahlberg, it immediately feels like, yeah, I know what that is.

• 50:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 50:57Griffin Newman?

  I've seen that a ton of times, even if it's the better version of that.

• 50:59Speaker 05

  Totally.

• 51:00Griffin Newman?

  I have also only heard good things from everyone who's seen it with the like qualifier of there is some stuff in it that feels like streaming bullshit.

• 51:07Speaker 05

  Is it, is it as good as Kiss Kiss Bang Bang?

• 51:09Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 51:09Speaker 05

  No, but is it, is it unsuccessful? Not at all. I, I had a blast.

• 51:14Speaker 04

  You see, the movie that I feel like I liked that I'm now going to be embarrassed to admit it to you all, but because I feel like no one liked it, but it kind of scratched that same itch was, was it called The Instigators? It was like a Boston movie.

• 51:25Griffin Newman?

  Oh, the day men.

• 51:26Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 51:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 51:27Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 51:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 51:28David Sims?

  That was something that bounced, it was.

• 51:30Griffin Newman?

  It's a lineman?

• 51:31Speaker 05

  That's a, is that a COVID movie? Did that movie get bounced?

• 51:34Griffin Newman?

  No, it feels like it should have been.

• 51:36David Sims?

  It's KCF, like, right?

• 51:37Griffin Newman?

  But it's like a 2024 Apple TV movie.

• 51:40David Sims?

  And I remember being hyped for it as like trashy fun and it kind of bounced off me in that streaming way of like, if you don't get me quick, I'm kind of.

• 51:47Speaker 04

  Right. I think I watched it on a plane. I was like, oh, I'm okay with the.

• 51:50David Sims?

  Maybe good on a plane.

• 51:51Speaker 04

  But I think what the difference is.

• 51:53Speaker 05

  It's a porch movie.

• 51:54Speaker 04

  It is a porch movie.

• 51:55Speaker 05

  It's trying for that.

• 51:56Speaker 04

  Well.

• 51:56Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 51:57Griffin Newman?

  Well.

• 51:58Speaker 05

  I got to add it to my list.

• 51:59Griffin Newman?

  Because we have two guests in the studio today, I'm not introducing them. Paul is at Ben's usual desk.

• 52:06Speaker 04

  I know, I feel uncomfortable about it.

• 52:07Griffin Newman?

  Ben has assembled an ad hoc setup, including a mic being held together with duct tape.

• 52:11David Sims?

  Oh, you had to mention that.

• 52:13Griffin Newman?

  No, because it has porch vibes in a good way.

• 52:15Speaker 04

  It is, it is, that is a porch vibe thing and you should have had your can taped to it as well. Like, I feel like, like a can cozy, like, yeah, like, I feel like there should be like, I made this. I didn't have to buy a cup holder for $2 on Amazon.

• 52:27Griffin Newman?

  He has like an ad hoc, like, producing engineer setup on the AV. With a half-built Lego Batman movie Joker mansion underneath it. And a duct tape mic. It's perfect.

• 52:39Speaker 05

  The microphone.

• 52:40Griffin Newman?

  It looks good.

• 52:41Speaker 05

  And I used the one that Sims broke.

• 52:43Griffin Newman?

  Okay, well.

• 52:44Speaker 05

  Oh. And so I had to throw something together.

• 52:47Griffin Newman?

  It's good.

• 52:47Speaker 04

  I love it. I love it.

• 52:48Speaker 05

  During one of his Sims temper tantrums during, I was, I was trashing the place.

• 52:52Griffin Newman?

  I said the word Juilliard and Sims ripped the microphone off.

• 52:55Speaker 04

  You're like primetime Letterman after a bad show.

• 52:59Griffin Newman?

  Look at the pencils in the ceiling.

• 53:01Speaker 04

  The, but I was gonna say.

• 53:02Speaker 05

  So many people in the audience are like, who's Letterman?

• 53:05Speaker 04

  I was gonna say.

• 53:06Griffin Newman?

  The guy from the nodding beard meme?

• 53:09Speaker 05

  I don't even know what that is. I'm learning so much about memes today.

• 53:13Speaker 04

  The, but Mark Wahlberg is an actor that in a movie that may bounce off you feels like he's giving it his all. Like, and I feel like that's the difference. Like, like, I don't ever feel like Mark Wahlberg, even when he's on Entourage.

• 53:27Speaker 05

  I'm gonna, I'm gonna need you to watch the Infinite.

• 53:30Speaker 04

  Wait, oh, no, sorry, sorry, sorry. I'm saying the wrong person. Matt Damon. Matt Damon, sorry. That's, that's it. Sorry. Matt Damon is the guy who I feel like is the anti Wahlberg because he is, it's always interesting. It's like.

• 53:44Griffin Newman?

  Damon has always given everything a hundred percent.

• 53:46Speaker 05

  You guys were saying on the True Grit episode is there are so many different categories of Damon and he is successful in every one of them. Damon as leading man, Damon as supporting character.

• 53:59Griffin Newman?

  As acting star, as dramatic star.

• 54:01Speaker 05

  Cameo in a side character in a movie like Interstellar. Those are all successful.

• 54:07David Sims?

  The one thing I'm very interested, because you look at Wahlberg's career of late and it's this mix of stuff like Infinite, sort of straight to streaming. I know that was not intended for streaming COVID casualty.

• 54:18Speaker 05

  It would have been, it still would feel that way if it wasn't.

• 54:22Griffin Newman?

  What's some streaming movie doing in theaters?

• 54:24David Sims?

  Somewhat anonymous action stuff that he looks kind of bored in.

• 54:26Speaker 05

  Because let me be clear, it is an Antoine Fuqua movie that cost well over a hundred million dollars. And was a blast to me.

• 54:35David Sims?

  Right.

• 54:35Speaker 05

  I had so much fun.

• 54:37Speaker 04

  That's the panic fire. That movie got caught up in the panic fire of. Everything's streaming. It just, just that's the only way. And thank God for Tom Cruise is the only one who was able to control, I mean, Right. That was, he was the only movie that did not go to streaming that was done and.

• 54:53Griffin Newman?

  Do you remember that announcement? It was like parallel with the Warner Brothers Project Popcorn. Every movie is going to HBO Max day and date. Paramount announced that every theatrical release of theirs would be on Paramount Plus within two weeks. And they had forced Cruise's hand and made the announcement, or they were trying to force his hand. They publicly announced, and that will also apply to Top Gun Maverick. And he was like, it will not. Like they had tried to get him to throw it on Paramount Plus in 2020, in 2021. He holds it to 22 and they're like, sure, it comes out Memorial Day. It will be on Paramount Plus by June. And he was like, no, it will.

• 55:32Speaker 04

  And, and you know, and I will say that he continues to hold it tight because even Mission Impossible, the Final Reckoning.

• 55:39Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 55:40Speaker 04

  He held that from VOD for way longer than any other film.

• 55:45Griffin Newman?

  I spent five months waiting on my fucking steelbook preorder to come through.

• 55:48Speaker 04

  I got that and I was, I came the other day and I was like, oh wow. And you know what? I'll tell you this much, I was brought in, I was brought into.

• 55:54Griffin Newman?

  David's having a great time.

• 55:55Speaker 04

  I had to host, I didn't have to, I was hosting a screening of The Final Reckoning.

• 55:59Griffin Newman?

  You had the privilege?

• 55:59Speaker 04

  I had the privilege and I was shown footage of the movie and I had to get my reaction to it. But they showed a documentary about that biplane scene. That, that shit is unimpeachable. Unbelievable.

• 56:14Griffin Newman?

  Two perfect sequences in that movie.

• 56:15Speaker 04

  Never have seen it since it's not on the DVD, it's not on the steelbook.

• 56:19Griffin Newman?

  Fuck.

• 56:19Speaker 04

  Oh, the thing they showed you? The thing they showed me, I don't know why, because it's similar. What's on the DVD is similar, it's, but the footage is different.

• 56:28Griffin Newman?

  Huh.

• 56:28Speaker 04

  And I was like, why is this not out there? Cause it was one of truly the most thrilling things I've ever seen.

• 56:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 56:36Speaker 04

  It actually makes it look way more dangerous than the documentary does.

• 56:38David Sims?

  David, will you please get back to what's on the computer? I wanted to finish my point about. About Wahlberg. Yes, before we introduced this podcast. So half streaming garbage, half this sort of inspirational stuff he'll do like Family Plan, Arthur the King, the one where he's with.

• 56:52Griffin Newman?

  Family Plan's more dumb family comedy. It's not inspiration.

• 56:55Speaker 04

  Right.

• 56:55Griffin Newman?

  But there's like a second one.

• 56:56David Sims?

  Family drama. It's inspiration.

• 56:57Griffin Newman?

  Family Plan's closer to murder mystery.

• 56:59Speaker 04

  But I mean, where does the movie with Topher Grace in the airplane fall?

• 57:02David Sims?

  With.

• 57:03Griffin Newman?

  That's. Well, that's inspirational because Mel Gibson is his lord and savior.

• 57:07David Sims?

  Oh, God. But that was at least, I mean, that movie doesn't work, but I guess that's sort of like, I guess I want you doing this kind of stuff, like playing big, being a villain. Yes. But he has a movie coming up called By All Means in, I think, 2026, directed by Elegance Bratton, who made that movie, The Inspection, a very solid debut, I thought, where he plays Gregory Scarpa, who is like a famous mafioso who went informant in the, in like the seventies or sixties or whatever. With like Mark Wahlberg, Yaya, Abdul Matin. Yes. Sounds good, you know? I'm in. David, this just kind of sounds like something. Yeah. This is something where I'm like, okay.

• 57:49Speaker 04

  Do you think, this is the other thing about him and what I've been thinking about with him. I know he's trying to launch that Vegas or that Nevada Warner Brothers or whatever that is.

• 58:00David Sims?

  Do you think he just had to avoid anything interesting while he was doing that?

• 58:03Speaker 04

  I think he's like, let's shit out as many of the, let's boom, boom, boom.

• 58:07David Sims?

  Just kind of keep the boring Wahlberg pipeline for a while.

• 58:11Griffin Newman?

  Money, working with more investment companies.

• 58:14Speaker 04

  And because they.

• 58:14Griffin Newman?

  Building more capital.

• 58:16Speaker 04

  They all feel like, some of them feel like real direct to DVD, but then you can go, oh, but a year ago he did a hundred million dollar movie. Like, it's like.

• 58:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 58:23Speaker 04

  I feel, but I feel like that studio has failed.

• 58:26Griffin Newman?

  It seems like it, but it definitely felt like he was trying to start an entire side industry. Like he was trying to Tyler Perry it.

• 58:33Speaker 04

  And they, and they, but it was also under the Warner Brothers banner, or it was like, it was a big studio banner and they had moved things out there. And it actually, I thought in many respects, made sense. Like, all right, well, they have a tax credit. You have land. You can go shoot this thing. And I, I guess maybe at the end of the day. If he's the face of it, maybe it doesn't take off as mu- I don't know.

• 58:55Speaker 05

  It's interesting because we have to remember, it's not that long ago that he was considered one of the most successful producers in town. Boardwalk Empire, Entourage, that whole HBO run was like, oh, Mark Wahlberg and that company are producing on a huge level. Maybe he is someone to go in on it with.

• 59:13David Sims?

  Introduce our podcast.

• 59:15Griffin Newman?

  I really was trying to wait for the hour mark.

• 59:17David Sims?

  We have to stop talking about Mark Wahlberg. He's not in this movie.

• 59:20Speaker 04

  Wait, wait, he's not in this movie?

• 59:21Griffin Newman?

  He's definitely not in this movie. Can we check the cast?

• 59:23David Sims?

  Yeah, check. He's not in it.

• 59:25Griffin Newman?

  He's not in The Girl Who Got Rattled?

• 59:27David Sims?

  Introduce the podcast.

• 59:28Speaker 04

  By the way, can we talk about that now? Yeah.

• 59:29Speaker 02

  We're both doing the same thing. He also has a clothing brand called Municipal.

• 59:33Griffin Newman?

  Introduce the podcast!

• 59:34Speaker 04

  But by the way, so when I was at, I went to the Celtics, I went to the Celtics game the other night and they, he has a special branding deal with the Bruins and the Celtics. Only municipal clothes there. And I was like, and I looked at the quality of it. I thought that's a good call.

• 59:48David Sims?

  Introduce the podcast. I do want to talk about this movie a little bit.

• 59:51Speaker 05

  Yes, I would talk about this movie a lot.

• 59:53David Sims?

  Well, then you're wasting time. I'm gonna, I'm now, I'm getting serious. You're wasting time.

• 59:57Griffin Newman?

  I'm not wasting time.

• 59:58David Sims?

  Cause I'm gonna have to leave and you're wasting time.

• 1:00:00Griffin Newman?

  At what time?

• 1:00:00Speaker 04

  Ben, can you read what the logo for?

• 1:00:02David Sims?

  You know when I have to leave. You know how my life works. Let's introduce the show. I am now officially really annoyed. I'm gonna be honest with you.

• 1:00:09Griffin Newman?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:00:10Speaker 05

  Let's go.

• 1:00:10David Sims?

  Not with you guys, with him.

• 1:00:12Griffin Newman?

  With me?

• 1:00:12David Sims?

  Yes, with you.

• 1:00:13Griffin Newman?

  Not with that?

• 1:00:14David Sims?

  I said introduce the podcast. You're like, oh, I was really hoping to get to an hour. Why? Let's go. Let's.

• 1:00:18Speaker 04

  Now you're, now you're holding him back.

• 1:00:20Griffin Newman?

  Now you are.

• 1:00:21David Sims?

  I'm like, who am I holding back?

• 1:00:23Speaker 05

  This is Blank Check, the show about filmographies, the directors and who are given a blank check and the, the movies that they make as a, as a result. Sometimes those movies hit and sometimes they don't, uh, baby?

• 1:00:39David Sims?

  I mean, that was basically fine.

• 1:00:41Speaker 05

  Bounce. Sometimes they bounce. So sorry, sorry.

• 1:00:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:43Speaker 05

  I didn't know I was gonna do it.

• 1:00:44David Sims?

  Who are our guests? This is just like that episode with Gethard where he has Jimmy Fallon. I think about it all the time. Do you remember that one?

• 1:00:50Griffin Newman?

  What? You think we're blowing it on this, on that level?

• 1:00:53David Sims?

  No, no, not on that level where I'm like, we have great guests. And then it's like, we're having to introduce the show. We have to introduce them. Don't make an hour in!

• 1:01:00Speaker 05

  Here's the thing. David, the show has been happening. The show has been great. Everyone's been loving

• 1:01:06Speaker 04

  it. I do feel like this is the problem sometimes with podcasting. It's like, you're not tuning in. You didn't tune in and go like, I'm confused. You know, it just showed up in your feed. You know what you're listening to before you hit play.

• 1:01:15Speaker 05

  Guests are.

• 1:01:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:16David Sims?

  It's true. You do. That always does make me laugh with like, and we haven't introduced our guest. And I'm like, the app tells you it's been doing that.

• 1:01:23Griffin Newman?

  You're the one doing that right now.

• 1:01:24Speaker 05

  Well, here's what I'm gonna say. The shift to video podcasts now.

• 1:01:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:28Speaker 05

  I'm looking like when the doughboys have a guest and they're, the person is on camera, sitting there waiting.

• 1:01:33Griffin Newman?

  It's awkward.

• 1:01:34Speaker 05

  To be introduced. I'm like, introduce them now immediately.

• 1:01:36David Sims?

  I never thought about that.

• 1:01:37Speaker 05

  Change the format.

• 1:01:39Griffin Newman?

  I think the first sentence has to be our guest today is.

• 1:01:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, immediately.

• 1:01:43Speaker 04

  Or just have them, just have a better shot.

• 1:01:45Speaker 05

  Or do you have them?

• 1:01:46Griffin Newman?

  Or have an intro.

• 1:01:47David Sims?

  Like, do you do the talk show thing?

• 1:01:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:49David Sims?

  Like, let's bring them in.

• 1:01:50Speaker 05

  No, just introduce them at the top and be, it's a formality. The show has been happening. Our show currently has been happening for however long.

• 1:01:58Griffin Newman?

  A great 55 minutes, a perfect 55 minutes.

• 1:02:00Speaker 04

  Podcast should be podcast. Video shows should be video shows.

• 1:02:03Griffin Newman?

  I agree.

• 1:02:03Speaker 04

  We should not have podcasts that are just, we put a camera in it.

• 1:02:07Speaker 05

  This is blank check. That's Griffin. That's David.

• 1:02:10Griffin Newman?

  There we go.

• 1:02:10Speaker 05

  This is Paul Shear and I am Jason Mantzoukas. We are from, how did this get made?

• 1:02:15Griffin Newman?

  Yes. But also from daddy's home from infinite. Ben?

• 1:02:19Speaker 05

  Producer Ben, producer Ben.

• 1:02:21Griffin Newman?

  Producer Ben.

• 1:02:22Speaker 05

  The Ben Dooser.

• 1:02:24Griffin Newman?

  What's his co-?

• 1:02:24Speaker 05

  Boy, uh, did you come up with one?

• 1:02:27David Sims?

  I don't know. We don't really do this anymore.

• 1:02:29Griffin Newman?

  Ballad of Buster.

• 1:02:31Speaker 05

  Well, that's, are you sure?

• 1:02:33Griffin Newman?

  Scruggsley.

• 1:02:35Speaker 05

  How about Inside Lou and Ben Davis? Inside Lou and Ben Davis?

• 1:02:41David Sims?

  Well, now it sounds like it's a Ben David Grubinsky.

• 1:02:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, it is. It is. Okay, let's get into it. Buster Scruggs.

• 1:02:46Griffin Newman?

  We'll get into it.

• 1:02:47Speaker 05

  This is a movie that to me I loved because, especially in this rewatch, because I was like, oh, this is not just a movie that is an homage to all of the westerns and all of the great, the John Fords, the, you know, all that stuff. It's an homage to all of the Looney Tunes episodes that are the homage to all of those movies. There is so much cartoon Looney Tunes stuff in here.

• 1:03:08Speaker 04

  Did you go to the?

• 1:03:09David Sims?

  Especially the first movie.

• 1:03:10Speaker 04

  Did you go to the Vista when they were playing, um? Oh, what was the movie where it's the, uh, where there's a sex pillow and George Clooney's carrying it around all the time? I forget now.

• 1:03:19David Sims?

  I think it's Ryan Gosling is who you're talking about, right? It's Lars and the Real Girl.

• 1:03:23Speaker 05

  Lars and the Real Girl?

• 1:03:23Speaker 04

  No, no, no, this is.

• 1:03:24David Sims?

  Oh, you mean Burn After? No, no, no, no.

• 1:03:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, it's a Coen Brothers movie.

• 1:03:27Speaker 05

  Burn After Reading, he built the sex chair.

• 1:03:29David Sims?

  Yeah, has a sex chair.

• 1:03:30Speaker 04

  Right, okay, and it's like, but they, they did a, I thought this was a cool one. They played it there, they played Looney Tunes cartoons before the screening.

• 1:03:38David Sims?

  Coincided or just the theater?

• 1:03:40Speaker 04

  I think the theater.

• 1:03:41David Sims?

  Oh, the Vistage.

• 1:03:41Speaker 04

  And I thought that was a really cool, I was, it was a great way to kind of, kind of like.

• 1:03:46Speaker 05

  There's a lot of cartoon shit in.

• 1:03:48David Sims?

  Have they ever talked about the Looney Tunes?

• 1:03:50Speaker 05

  I wonder because it felt to me like they were, they were doing both here. They were both, you know, leaning into some of those great big classic Western themes, but then also how we have processed them through cartoons.

• 1:04:04Speaker 04

  Oh, I mean, well, look, the opening scene is Bugs Bunny.

• 1:04:07Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:04:07Speaker 04

  I mean, absolutely. I would argue, and maybe you guys will disagree with me, that the, the one segment I don't particularly care for as much as the rest.

• 1:04:15David Sims?

  I wonder if it's the same for me.

• 1:04:17Speaker 04

  It is, is the second to last one, the, the one that is.

• 1:04:20David Sims?

  I completely agree.

• 1:04:21Speaker 04

  The longest.

• 1:04:21Speaker 05

  I love it.

• 1:04:22Griffin Newman?

  I love it so much.

• 1:04:23Speaker 04

  Oh, really?

• 1:04:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I find it profoundly affecting.

• 1:04:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:04:27Speaker 05

  It's affecting.

• 1:04:28Griffin Newman?

  We'll get into it.

• 1:04:28Speaker 05

  It's affecting.

• 1:04:29Griffin Newman?

  I love that.

• 1:04:30Speaker 05

  The one that for me, I, I find that is the least interesting is the final one.

• 1:04:35Griffin Newman?

  I agree with that.

• 1:04:36Speaker 05

  With the great Mark Lynn Baker.

• 1:04:38David Sims?

  I see, that is my favorite one.

• 1:04:39Griffin Newman?

  Interesting.

• 1:04:40Speaker 05

  I really like that one.

• 1:04:42Griffin Newman?

  What a good episode.

• 1:04:43Speaker 04

  Because the last one.

• 1:04:44David Sims?

  It's a good episode.

• 1:04:45Griffin Newman?

  It's great, it's been great and it's only getting better.

• 1:04:47Speaker 04

  Well, because the last one, I think is like, really like.

• 1:04:50David Sims?

  I don't know how else this could end without it, right?

• 1:04:52Speaker 04

  Right, and it's like, and I feel like it's the Coens, like the other ones are like, they're doing riffs on it. And then that one feels like they're really infused, I don't know, it feels different in tone and style and.

• 1:05:03David Sims?

  I, I almost, I want them to make another movie, but I almost do want it to be the last thing they ever did, which is them being like Time to Die.

• 1:05:10Speaker 04

  Yes, I agree.

• 1:05:11David Sims?

  You know?

• 1:05:12Griffin Newman?

  I agree with you that it does feel like an ultimate artist statement in an interesting way. And obviously, like, I think this doesn't work as a movie where you watch it all the way through rather than separate. You know, install, uh, uh, episodes without that being the end. Cause that's what it's all building up towards. And it also does feel like this is what our body of work has been about.

• 1:05:33David Sims?

  What is everyone's favorite? I just, just, just say your favorite. Just say your favorite off the top of your head.

• 1:05:37Speaker 05

  Mine is the Tom Waits one.

• 1:05:38David Sims?

  Cause that, that I feel like is Ben's favorite too.

• 1:05:40Speaker 05

  Saying, I mean, beyond, it is far and away my favorite.

• 1:05:44Speaker 02

  Heavily features digging.

• 1:05:46Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:05:47David Sims?

  Digging, and you know what? It's not just Waits, it's the shovel.

• 1:05:49Speaker 05

  I think Ben and I both enjoy unearthing things.

• 1:05:53Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:05:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, in many ways.

• 1:05:54Speaker 05

  The only difference is that Ben has buried it first.

• 1:05:57Speaker 02

  That's right, right, right. And then I return to the jeans.

• 1:05:59Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:06:00Griffin Newman?

  Do you know that Ben was really recently stopped by the TSA?

• 1:06:04David Sims?

  This is a real, a real fact.

• 1:06:06Griffin Newman?

  On his honeymoon in Italy because he had a portable travel shovel.

• 1:06:11Speaker 04

  I was gonna joke because he had a shovel.

• 1:06:13David Sims?

  You didn't think you could buy a shovel in Italy?

• 1:06:16Speaker 02

  I just wanted to be prepared.

• 1:06:18Speaker 04

  Wait, why, why were, why did he even need a shovel in Italy?

• 1:06:21Griffin Newman?

  Cause he wants to bury some Italian jeans.

• 1:06:23David Sims?

  He had some digging plans.

• 1:06:24Speaker 05

  Did you bring jeans as well or were you gonna buy those there?

• 1:06:26Speaker 02

  I brought jeans and what ended up happening.

• 1:06:29David Sims?

  I imagine you're like, are you like taking them out of the suitcase and like sort of gesturing with the shovel to them?

• 1:06:35Speaker 05

  Are you buying jeans like, or are you sourcing denim? Like, what are you doing?

• 1:06:39Speaker 02

  I buy new Levi's jeans.

• 1:06:41Speaker 05

  Okay, okay, okay.

• 1:06:42Speaker 02

  Okay, and then I ordered through Italian Amazon, a collapsible shovel.

• 1:06:47David Sims?

  Amazon.

• 1:06:47Speaker 02

  As well as a, like a ceramic container to put the jeans in.

• 1:06:52Speaker 05

  Got it, okay.

• 1:06:53David Sims?

  Oh, you mean kind of like a Truscan vibes? Like you were gonna go full like Chimera, like ceramic container?

• 1:06:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:00Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:07:00Speaker 05

  Like for organ, for organs and so forth?

• 1:07:02Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 1:07:05David Sims?

  We, we, yeah.

• 1:07:06Speaker 02

  The fucking, we got there. Container didn't arrive in time.

• 1:07:09David Sims?

  Ah, sure.

• 1:07:10Speaker 04

  But now you had, you had.

• 1:07:11Speaker 02

  Me apologia.

• 1:07:12Speaker 04

  Now you had it sent to your hotel?

• 1:07:14Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:07:15Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 1:07:16Speaker 02

  So then I was like, well, it's a perfectly good shovel. It's still in the packaging.

• 1:07:20Speaker 05

  I love it.

• 1:07:20Speaker 02

  But they had a real problem with me bringing that.

• 1:07:24Speaker 04

  It's a weapon.

• 1:07:25Speaker 02

  And his blue security.

• 1:07:26Griffin Newman?

  His wife texts me POV, my husband arguing with the TSA because they found a portable shovel in his bag. And it's just, it's from a performance way that you can't hear it. And it's Ben just, just killing.

• 1:07:38Speaker 02

  Like one of those like Karen videos you see on YouTube of like.

• 1:07:42Griffin Newman?

  And she's like investigating a shovel and calling over her.

• 1:07:45Speaker 02

  Well, she kept, they kept being like, why do you have this? And I was like, I, I don't know how to explain it.

• 1:07:52Speaker 04

  Ultimately?

• 1:07:52Speaker 02

  No, they took it.

• 1:07:54Speaker 04

  By the way, this is, this interaction is very much at the time I was in the Orlando airport and the woman in front of me had a handgun in her purse. And, and.

• 1:08:01Speaker 02

  Escalation.

• 1:08:02Speaker 04

  Oh, in Florida.

• 1:08:04Speaker 02

  In Florida. That's so weird.

• 1:08:06Griffin Newman?

  In her defense, she was going to Disney World.

• 1:08:08Speaker 04

  She, she had like, she had like a quilted purse. She did not look like a person that you would think would have a, a large handgun in her purse.

• 1:08:15Speaker 02

  Not a Derringer, like a big ass gun.

• 1:08:18Speaker 04

  It was a big ass like automatic gun. And she, and when she opened it, she was like, oh, well, yeah, but I, I, she's like, but it's just, it's for me. It's my care. She was so.

• 1:08:26Speaker 02

  Right. She's, I'm not bringing anyone else a gun.

• 1:08:28Speaker 04

  Right, right.

• 1:08:29Griffin Newman?

  This is my gun.

• 1:08:30Speaker 04

  Yeah. The idea that it was like.

• 1:08:32Griffin Newman?

  I put it in a Ziploc bag like they told me to.

• 1:08:34Speaker 04

  Yeah. She's like, and it's, I'm not, I'm not, it's, I'm not going to use it for the plane. I'm just bringing this gun for me.

• 1:08:38Griffin Newman?

  This is a carry on. It's my personal item.

• 1:08:40Speaker 02

  I assure you, this was not intended to be used on the plane.

• 1:08:43Speaker 04

  And I, I sat by, I was standing behind her, watching it. And everyone was so calm. I was like, this is a gun. She was like, wow, you guys are really giving me a hard time about this gun.

• 1:08:52Griffin Newman?

  Give me the business with this handgun.

• 1:08:54Speaker 04

  Yeah. It was, she had no like, oh my God, I can't believe it.

• 1:08:57Speaker 02

  It's not like shoes or cigarettes. You're like, oh, when did they change the rules? It's like, you weren't ever really allowed to bring guns.

• 1:09:03Speaker 05

  Every once in a while, I'll accidentally arrive at the airport with like a Leatherman in my backpack. And I'm always like, oh no, I'm so sorry. I'm, I am like, throw it away. Please throw it away. I'm, you know, and the idea that I would accidentally, somebody would accidentally bring a gun.

• 1:09:19Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:09:19Speaker 05

  Just as absentmindedly.

• 1:09:21Speaker 04

  Is hilarious.

• 1:09:21Griffin Newman?

  And it feels like the way you're describing it, she was treating it as if, oh, I forgot to dump out my water bottle.

• 1:09:26Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 1:09:27Griffin Newman?

  Putting it through the metal detector.

• 1:09:28Speaker 04

  And she was so, and she was just talking about it like, no, no remorse. And also like, but it doesn't have bullets in it.

• 1:09:35Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:09:35Speaker 04

  Like, and it was like.

• 1:09:36Griffin Newman?

  You really can't just let me take the water bottle on the plane?

• 1:09:39Speaker 04

  It was, uh, it was great. So they took the shovel from you.

• 1:09:43David Sims?

  But okay, so, so digging movies, your.

• 1:09:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:09:46David Sims?

  Paul, what is your favorite?

• 1:09:47Speaker 04

  Well, I mean, and I don't wanna, I don't wanna shirk it here, but I was gonna say that I really do believe the bookends of it are my two favorites.

• 1:09:53Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:09:54Speaker 04

  And I, but I, but.

• 1:09:55Griffin Newman?

  Buster's my favorite.

• 1:09:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, because I think that like that opening, like I feel like it encapsulates in many respects, everything I love about the Coens in those two.

• 1:10:03David Sims?

  Buster Scruggs might be the only one where I have just the tinge of like, this is perfect as a, as a sketch. It's perfect. I, I, I almost just want like, give me, I want more of it. Like, it's the only one, everything else, I'm like, this is ideal.

• 1:10:17Speaker 04

  But I think, but I think that that, but I think that that's actually the reason why, for me, it works because.

• 1:10:22David Sims?

  You're probably right.

• 1:10:23Speaker 04

  Cause I think that like, the minute you go, oh, it could have been a second shorter. Like, you always wanna leave people wanting more, especially with a comedy thing, I feel like, you know?

• 1:10:32Griffin Newman?

  It is the only one, though, that feels like it leaves me wanting more because you're like, man, you could do so many fucking things with this character.

• 1:10:38Speaker 04

  You want him to come back.

• 1:10:39Griffin Newman?

  To see, exactly, to see him locked in like that. And he's always good. I remind you.

• 1:10:45David Sims?

  Especially when he was controlling the actions of Brett Hulk, our president.

• 1:10:47Speaker 04

  Oh, we love that.

• 1:10:48Griffin Newman?

  Salute our president.

• 1:10:48David Sims?

  Villainous leader.

• 1:10:50Griffin Newman?

  I, I remind you, I gave him.

• 1:10:52David Sims?

  Do you think he has the iPad? The action figure has the iPad?

• 1:10:54Griffin Newman?

  They didn't make one.

• 1:10:55David Sims?

  No, no, why not? Oh, why not?

• 1:10:57Speaker 04

  Are we talking about the thinker?

• 1:10:58David Sims?

  The villainous leader.

• 1:10:59Griffin Newman?

  Sir.

• 1:10:59Speaker 04

  Leader. I'm sorry, the leader.

• 1:11:00Griffin Newman?

  The thinker, of course, is Peter Capaldi.

• 1:11:02Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 1:11:02Griffin Newman?

  The Suicide Squad, Megan, the Suicide Squad. But, um, uh, no, this is the thing, I was sending David many texts about this that he loved and responded to really quickly.

• 1:11:13David Sims?

  About the toy.

• 1:11:14Griffin Newman?

  The multiple reshoots of Captain America.

• 1:11:17Speaker 04

  Giancarlo Esposito completely added.

• 1:11:19Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 1:11:20Speaker 04

  And you can tell because when they have their conversation, they walk into a dark cave. It's like, they go, like, he's like, come in here. All right, sure.

• 1:11:29Griffin Newman?

  Yes, it's a Dustin Hoffman, Little Focker's thing where he keeps popping up around a corner and going, I need to talk to you about something, but far away from any other principal actor.

• 1:11:38Griffin Newman?

  And then you can go back to the scene you were just in. Meet me on Reshoot Street.

• 1:11:44Speaker 04

  It is so funny when you look at those scenes, like what's going on in the background, where they have just come from. I love it all.

• 1:11:50Griffin Newman?

  All of the merch of Tim Blake Nelson as the leader is an entirely different design than what's in the movie. Really? Because they shot the entire film one time with an entirely different look for the character and then reshoot every second of his footage.

• 1:12:04Speaker 04

  Wow, we gotta talk to Jesse Falcon about that.

• 1:12:06Griffin Newman?

  That's, that's amazing. Talk to Jesse Falcon.

• 1:12:08Speaker 04

  Sure, yeah.

• 1:12:09Griffin Newman?

  Oh, I know. You should definitely talk to him about that. Didn't get a Marvel Legends, but like the Funko Pop, they're like T-shirts.

• 1:12:17Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 1:12:17Griffin Newman?

  Where it's him with like little glasses and like natty combed hair. Oh, wow. And he's like dressed like a college professor versus his like zombie.

• 1:12:24David Sims?

  Long, man, it hairs.

• 1:12:25Griffin Newman?

  Right, right. Instead of the like bumpy brain, it's a tall head.

• 1:12:28Speaker 04

  I feel like they, I feel like.

• 1:12:29Griffin Newman?

  Which is the comics.

• 1:12:31David Sims?

  Yeah, it's going for the original comic.

• 1:12:33Speaker 04

  Ah, it's a bummer. It's a bummer because I feel like, you know.

• 1:12:36David Sims?

  I just feel like Red Hulk had a great domestic agenda and he didn't get to execute it. No, no, no.

• 1:12:40Speaker 04

  And now he's trapped in that island, set out in jail.

• 1:12:43Griffin Newman?

  And the hard thing for Red Hulk is because of the shutdown, he's not getting any of his policy.

• 1:12:49Griffin Newman?

  He's also not getting his pills.

• 1:12:50Speaker 04

  No, he's gotta get those pills.

• 1:12:52Griffin Newman?

  He gotta get those pills. Give me that.

• 1:12:53Speaker 04

  By the way, I was so upset. My, so my son had never seen a Marvel movie. My son never had seen a Marvel movie. We went to Comic Con this year.

• 1:13:02Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I met your kids at Comic Con.

• 1:13:04Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, exactly. Yes.

• 1:13:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:13:05Speaker 04

  And so we were, and so there was this moment where we got home, like, what, what is a Marvel movie?

• 1:13:11David Sims?

  Yeah, like, what, how old is your son?

• 1:13:13Speaker 04

  Uh, 11 and the other one's nine.

• 1:13:14Griffin Newman?

  Well, and also, let's call out the last time you were on the show for Last Action Hero. You talked about that your sons have always been pretty disinterested in movies.

• 1:13:22Speaker 04

  Yes, and now.

• 1:13:23Griffin Newman?

  And that was one of the first movies they liked.

• 1:13:25Speaker 04

  Yes, and Last Action Hero is a big, we've now been big movie now, so it's been, it's been working really good for us. But I've watched every, I did a curated selection of it because I really wanted to watch Endgame. And I was like, we can't start there, let's go. And I, I created a, I created a crash course to get us to Endgame and we went backwards. But they kept on going, when can we see the Red Hulk? When can we see the Red? And this is not a bit, this is not a joke. And I was like, we were not gonna see that one just yet.

• 1:13:52David Sims?

  We're gonna do like eight Green Hulks before he gets red.

• 1:13:55Griffin Newman?

  But they think Red Hulk is the fireworks factory.

• 1:13:58Speaker 04

  Like they were ready for Red Hulk. And so I was like, guys, we can't. And I've been watching everyone with them. And I came home. One day I had done a show and I come home and they go, we watched Red Hulk. And I was like, well, at first it was the only one they watched without me.

• 1:14:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:10Speaker 04

  And I already seen it. And, and, and I was like, what did you think? And it was funny because it's the first time they were disappointed about like, and it was.

• 1:14:19David Sims?

  I remember when you're 10 or 11, you're like, it wasn't quite the five star experience every film in my life has been.

• 1:14:26Griffin Newman?

  Ever seen.

• 1:14:27David Sims?

  I did detect slight cracks.

• 1:14:29Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:14:30Speaker 05

  Are movies allowed to be bad?

• 1:14:32Speaker 04

  It's a funny moment that you have when you realize that there's a, and they, and they come to me all the time. They go like, can we watch? I go, no. Well, why not? I don't think you'll like it. And like, but, and it's like, well, is it too adult? I'm like, it's not too adult. It's just not good. Yeah.

• 1:14:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:47Speaker 04

  And it's hard to like, explain why, but when they see it, they're like, all right.

• 1:14:52David Sims?

  Cause right. Cause you're like, yeah, I don't know. Captain America fights Red Hulk in it. Like, and you're like, well, that sounds good. And you're like, yeah, it does sound good.

• 1:14:59Griffin Newman?

  I could ever imagine.

• 1:15:02David Sims?

  Salute.

• 1:15:02Griffin Newman?

  I, I was going to say, I, you may remember I gave Tim Blake Nelson, my best supporting actor award in our blankies episode.

• 1:15:10David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:15:10Griffin Newman?

  This year for this.

• 1:15:11David Sims?

  For this. For Buster Scruggs.

• 1:15:12Griffin Newman?

  And I, this segment is so my sensibility. It is, I, I did see this in the very brief theatrical release.

• 1:15:18David Sims?

  Oh, cool. I saw, I was, it was screened for me. I think I can't remember.

• 1:15:22Griffin Newman?

  Some of the biggest laughs I have ever had in a theater come from this segment, which is just so.

• 1:15:26Speaker 05

  So funny.

• 1:15:27Griffin Newman?

  Fucking bullseye.

• 1:15:28David Sims?

  It's so you.

• 1:15:29Speaker 05

  And so true.

• 1:15:30David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:30Speaker 05

  It's so cartoons. It's him, it's his performance, it's the song, all the physicality of the tables. And then you've got Clancy Brown.

• 1:15:39Griffin Newman?

  Yes, in the perfect silhouette.

• 1:15:40Speaker 04

  I mean, that is the most cartoon thing of all time.

• 1:15:43Speaker 05

  The tone of the movie is established when during this segment in the very beginning, as he's riding the horse and playing guitar. There's a shot from inside the guitar out.

• 1:15:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:15:54Speaker 05

  You are looking at from inside the guitar out through the strings. The sound is muffled. And I'm like, oh, this is what they're doing.

• 1:16:01Griffin Newman?

  They're having fun.

• 1:16:01Speaker 05

  This is fun.

• 1:16:02David Sims?

  And silly.

• 1:16:03Speaker 04

  And I think the thing, and I, when I watched it again, and I hadn't watched it in a long time. I was like, oh, but this character comes back. Yeah, this is like the.

• 1:16:10Griffin Newman?

  Well, he's also the titular.

• 1:16:12David Sims?

  Right. You're right.

• 1:16:13Speaker 04

  And he doesn't.

• 1:16:14David Sims?

  He does seem otherworldly, obviously. And you're like, maybe he finds a way to.

• 1:16:17Griffin Newman?

  Is he the through line?

• 1:16:19Speaker 04

  Or you go backwards and you see him before, or do you like, would you like, does every character have an interaction with this guy? Cause it's only, that's a movie too, right? You know, and, uh, but no. And I think that that's why I also feel what you're saying, like, I want more of it. Like, I think the movie might even feel better if there was a little bit like, maybe if those characters come into that town where he gets killed. I mean, it doesn't quite work, but.

• 1:16:42Griffin Newman?

  Though where like every other segment is a complete thought that ends at the exact point it has to end to. Because there is so much a punchline and even the segments that are more dramatic. Do kind of have an inherent sketch comedy game within them. Where it's all about building this up and knocking it down and getting to that surprising like, but inevitable conclusion. And this is the one where you're like, you could do seven more sketches with this guy.

• 1:17:06David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:17:07Griffin Newman?

  That would all be satisfying.

• 1:17:08David Sims?

  But also Mortal Remains, right, has Saul Rubinek, the great Saul Rubinek.

• 1:17:12Griffin Newman?

  Playing a Frenchman.

• 1:17:12David Sims?

  Playing a Frenchman. And then Crumholtz is in Buster, uh, the Ballad Buster Scruggs is a Frenchman.

• 1:17:18Griffin Newman?

  Their second crummiest film, I would say.

• 1:17:19David Sims?

  It is. I think else is just still there.

• 1:17:21Griffin Newman?

  That's the crummiest.

• 1:17:23David Sims?

  And I had that, I heard the brief, like, when I was rewatching, I was like, does Crumholtz come back? Cause when I saw him, I was like.

• 1:17:28Speaker 04

  It's a similar look.

• 1:17:30David Sims?

  Is, and like, then I started thinking like, what if Mortal Remains, like, it's like, there was a character in each of them and they're all in the carriage. That's fun. And then I watched it and I was like, right, but that's not what it is at all.

• 1:17:39Speaker 04

  Wouldn't that be cool?

• 1:17:40David Sims?

  Wouldn't that be cool? But the Coens also are, I think, when you say to them, wouldn't that be cool? They're like, oh, I don't know. Maybe we did something else.

• 1:17:46Speaker 04

  And I think that the movies that we have watched that are similar, and I'm, I'm gonna, this is a very big thing I'm painting here. But like Kentucky Fried Movie or like Amazon Women on the Moon, which I was able to buy in the UK. Yeah.

• 1:17:58Griffin Newman?

  Blu-ray or DVD?

• 1:17:59Speaker 04

  Blu-ray. And but like they that the format of these styles, the style of film where it's shorts. They there always is a little bit of a through line, a little bit like, you know.

• 1:18:11David Sims?

  What's making this all hang together?

• 1:18:12Speaker 04

  And this is just.

• 1:18:14David Sims?

  The milieu.

• 1:18:15Speaker 05

  The West.

• 1:18:15David Sims?

  The milieu.

• 1:18:16Speaker 05

  Yeah. The West frontier, the, you know, like the themes of going west and a new started or whatever, you know?

• 1:18:22Speaker 04

  And even though it's the, but the book is, is the, is the book, the Ballad of.

• 1:18:26David Sims?

  The book is based on two different stories.

• 1:18:29Griffin Newman?

  Well, when you're saying the physical book in the book.

• 1:18:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:18:31Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah. Two of the six stories are adaptations.

• 1:18:33David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:18:33Griffin Newman?

  Four of them are originals.

• 1:18:35David Sims?

  Yeah. You know what? I should open the dossier because I actually think.

• 1:18:38Speaker 05

  Crack it.

• 1:18:39David Sims?

  Lots of questions.

• 1:18:39Speaker 05

  Crack it.

• 1:18:40David Sims?

  I don't know the total.

• 1:18:41Speaker 05

  David, I'm begging you to get to the dossier. David.

• 1:18:44Speaker 04

  It's an hour and 12.

• 1:18:45Speaker 05

  David.

• 1:18:47Griffin Newman?

  JJ worked on. Getting the podcast in motion.

• 1:18:49David Sims?

  The Coens, of course, had made short films before a little bit. Joel made a short film called Soundings in NYU Film School. Obviously, they did the Tweeler E section of Parrish at tame, which is very charming and funny.

• 1:19:00Griffin Newman?

  Busemi segment, teach his own cinema.

• 1:19:03David Sims?

  And then they did the world cinema segment and to each his own cinema with Brolin, right?

• 1:19:07Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:07David Sims?

  Yep.

• 1:19:07Griffin Newman?

  Tom might like the, the Nury Bilga silent. That's his bit at the end of the movie.

• 1:19:12David Sims?

  Oh, yeah, right, right, right.

• 1:19:13Griffin Newman?

  It's cowboy wanders into an art house theater and he really likes climates. The Nury Bilga silent movie and he like tips his cowboy hat and goes, tell him I like it.

• 1:19:21David Sims?

  Seen this.

• 1:19:21Griffin Newman?

  It's really great.

• 1:19:22David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:23Griffin Newman?

  It's really.

• 1:19:23David Sims?

  Trisha Cook, co-directed a short called Don't Mess with Texas, where Ethan was someone of, but anyway, but in the early 2000s, the Coens start writing something called The Ballad of Buster Scruggs, but they don't intend it, intend it maybe right away to be a short, but they realize like, yeah, this is like an interesting lark. Maybe it could begin to be a collection.

• 1:19:43Griffin Newman?

  They also, they tell Tim Blake, like, we're writing this for you. This is this fun idea we're toying around with.

• 1:19:48David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:19:49Griffin Newman?

  Because it's right around a brother.

• 1:19:50David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:19:50Griffin Newman?

  In a kind of more real, dangerous, Western milieu.

• 1:19:54Speaker 05

  Is there anybody who, and I mean, I think he has said this outright. Is there anybody who has had their career just astronomically catapulted forward than the Coens and Tim Blake?

• 1:20:06David Sims?

  It is so interesting that they look at him and they're like, we know what to do with you.

• 1:20:10Speaker 05

  And it's, and it's all he needed. It's, it's all of it. It's, it's from a brother to this guy to.

• 1:20:15David Sims?

  Like it's so varied.

• 1:20:17Griffin Newman?

  I mean, here are the things that are craziest. One, that they actually don't work together at all between O Brother and this.

• 1:20:22David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:20:23Griffin Newman?

  And in your mind, you're like, he became a staple.

• 1:20:25David Sims?

  Yeah. In your mind, you're like, he's Steven Root. He's in six of these things. Right.

• 1:20:28Speaker 04

  But the thing about him too, is I think he also is exploding in a lot of movies that are odd that for the most, for the eye test for most people are like, oh, that was a Coen Brothers.

• 1:20:38Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:20:38Speaker 04

  It wasn't, but it feels like he's in those.

• 1:20:41Griffin Newman?

  Or if he gave a performance in a movie that felt like it could have been a Coen's performance in a more straight film or whatever it is.

• 1:20:47Speaker 04

  Like he's doing a lot of that weird, not weird work, but just a lot of that, you just associate him with that.

• 1:20:52Griffin Newman?

  But also to be a guy who, I'm sorry, David, went to Juilliard, is classically trained.

• 1:20:57David Sims?

  We've talked about Tim, I guess just Neo Brother.

• 1:21:00Griffin Newman?

  But then like, you know, was like doing character actor stuff, doing comedy stuff and was sort of like, eh, I think I'm more of a writer and director. That's my main focus. I've become friends with Joel Coen through that. Then he offers me this part. I'm like, I don't really act that much anymore. This is the third lead of the movie. Should I do this? He does it. He never stops working.

• 1:21:19David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:21:19Griffin Newman?

  It's not even, he has had peaks and valleys.

• 1:21:21David Sims?

  No, he's got a face.

• 1:21:22Griffin Newman?

  On everyone is like, we know to cast this guy forever. He will be in six things a year.

• 1:21:27David Sims?

  So back to the dusty, because well, we can talk about, you know, that.

• 1:21:32Speaker 04

  So they've done short films.

• 1:21:33David Sims?

  Well, they've done short films. They write Buster Scruggs. They start to just write other stuff. It all goes in a drawer. At one point HBO, who's the only other possible contender for, I think, making something like this is like, we do an anthology, like that makes some sense. They sort of talk about it. It never goes anywhere. And Ethan says basically at some point they were like, we just need to write like one more and it'll be a feature, right? Like they had maybe four or five. They were like, let's just do it. The only.

• 1:22:01Speaker 04

  When you say Buster Scruggs, were they writing Buster?

• 1:22:04David Sims?

  First they do Buster Scruggs, the first.

• 1:22:06Speaker 04

  But I mean, but oh, but always as a story, not as like, we're going to write a Buster Scruggs feature.

• 1:22:11David Sims?

  Exactly. I think they, they realized like, no, it's a little trifle and they just keep adding trifles to their drawer.

• 1:22:16Griffin Newman?

  About it in like the early 2000s. And then they're like, we don't really know what to do with this. We have this thing we wrote for you. We don't really know where this would fit into.

• 1:22:23David Sims?

  They love westerns.

• 1:22:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:25David Sims?

  And. So they're kind of, as they put it, rummaging around in the Western genre where they're like, well, we never did a stagecoach movie. We never did a wagon train movie. Like, these are all, right? Buster Scruggs is like, it's about, you know, dueling, right? Like, the gold miner thing, the stagecoach thing, it all makes sense. It's like, these are things Westerns would, would, subgenres of golden age.

• 1:22:45Griffin Newman?

  They have ostensibly done two feature-length Westerns at this point, yet both of them are unconventional in their own ways. That there are a lot of hallmarks they have not hit at all.

• 1:22:53David Sims?

  They write The Mortal Remains, the final piece, as a way of unifying, when they look at all their stories, they're like, what is the common theme? And they are like, the common theme of this is death.

• 1:23:02Griffin Newman?

  Death comes for us all.

• 1:23:03David Sims?

  Exactly. Like, and it's like, it may be out of the ordinary, or it might just kind of be like, what can you do? Like, you're gonna, you know, but like, that is right. That is the common theme. So they write that.

• 1:23:11Griffin Newman?

  You could also zoom out and argue that is the common theme of their body of work.

• 1:23:17David Sims?

  Much art, obviously.

• 1:23:18Speaker 04

  Well, that's what I was gonna say, that the first and last chapter, to me, represent the full scope of their career, which is like, death, but.

• 1:23:26David Sims?

  Cartoon silliness, and then like poetic sort of seriousness.

• 1:23:29Speaker 04

  And sort of like the brutality and beauty, and it's really, well, I mean, I think this movie does capture a lot of what they do in very short segments. You know, like.

• 1:23:39Griffin Newman?

  And I, I think the primary concern of like their careers and their body of work is, this is the only guarantee. And what do you do with that knowledge? Right?

• 1:23:49Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:23:50Griffin Newman?

  That most of their stories are animated by how do people process the fact that that is the inevitable end goal?

• 1:23:59Griffin Newman?

  How do people, what, what are they willing to do in order to protect their lives? The cruelty of taking away other people's lives, like, all of this, the negoti-

• 1:24:07Speaker 04

  I, I really wish, I also feel like there's no, like, their movies are more, not more modern, but I feel like they, there's less lying here. People are much more bald here, I feel like, in this film, yeah. And I feel like they kind of.

• 1:24:21David Sims?

  Man, you're obsessed with bald in movies.

• 1:24:23Speaker 04

  I mean, I think it's great. And you're talking about Greek actors, talking about bald actors.

• 1:24:26David Sims?

  Sally Savalas.

• 1:24:28Speaker 04

  But I do think. I love it.

• 1:24:30Griffin Newman?

  Greek.

• 1:24:31David Sims?

  Greek hell. Greek as hell.

• 1:24:32Griffin Newman?

  We left him off the list.

• 1:24:33David Sims?

  Well, he is dead.

• 1:24:34Speaker 04

  That's not. Well, you can't.

• 1:24:35David Sims?

  I'm just saying, I mean, he can't, he can't ship off to the Odyssey tomorrow.

• 1:24:39Speaker 04

  I believe he was Jennifer Aniston's.

• 1:24:40Speaker 05

  Godfather.

• 1:24:41Griffin Newman?

  He was.

• 1:24:41Speaker 05

  Is that right?

• 1:24:42Griffin Newman?

  What? Sloppy toes.

• 1:24:43Speaker 05

  John Anderson is the dad.

• 1:24:44Speaker 04

  I do have his vinyl, his vinyl is great. His singing vinyl is.

• 1:24:47Speaker 05

  Oh, wow.

• 1:24:49David Sims?

  I can imagine that guy had some pipes.

• 1:24:50Speaker 04

  He does a little William Shatner-esque, but I feel like what's fun about this is like, these people are who they say they are and what they like. No one's like hiding that much. And I feel like a lot of Coen Brothers movies is about manipulation or covering.

• 1:25:03Griffin Newman?

  But I also think that's like a principle of the dramatic idea of the Western, right? It is why it is a genre that people are still so obsessed with is it's this notion of like, white hats and black hats and men meeting in a town square and looking each other in the eye and saying the thing. And these moral lines, you know, this sort of like this, this midpoint culturally between like, we built just enough of a society that we're starting to establish rules and structures and idea of how a town works and what jobs are, you know, and, and dressing it up. And yet things are settled by guys shooting each other in the head.

• 1:25:41Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:25:41Griffin Newman?

  You know, that, that it's this like, the exact midpoint in like the human evolution.

• 1:25:45Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:25:46David Sims?

  So Westerns are about.

• 1:25:47Griffin Newman?

  Getting away from barbarianism.

• 1:25:48David Sims?

  To what extent has civilization arrived?

• 1:25:50Speaker 04

  And then what civilization?

• 1:25:51David Sims?

  Sort of.

• 1:25:52Speaker 04

  And what they take, they, and then where it manipulates to is people like, oh, I can circumvent the civilization. I can manipulate it. I can gain, get money from it, you know?

• 1:26:01Speaker 05

  Like what I feel like is part of it is, and Zoe Kazan has that line when her brother has died and they say, do you want to go back? Or do you want to move forward? And she said, there is no back. There is only moving forward. And that's everybody in this movie, everybody in life is marching forward towards it's certain death. Uh, it's just happening so much sooner in this movie because circumstances are brutal.

• 1:26:24David Sims?

  And these things have to be 15 minutes long as well.

• 1:26:27Griffin Newman?

  They basically, all of them average between 15 and 20, other than the Kazan, which is about 35.

• 1:26:33David Sims?

  Right. The rattled is the sort of centerpiece, you know, it's later.

• 1:26:36Speaker 04

  And that's why I feel like that. Why I don't like it as much as the others is because I think it does break the structure too late in the film because it's right at the, it's like-

• 1:26:47Griffin Newman?

  That is the exact thing I like about it.

• 1:26:49Speaker 04

  Really?

• 1:26:49David Sims?

  I think I can see Griffin's side of it. I agree with you, Paul, that I, right, I'm kind of like, this, this is like a few too many beats and I've been with this movie for a while and, you know, I don't know. I don't know. I, I-

• 1:27:01Speaker 04

  I want to know why you guys like it, but yeah, yeah.

• 1:27:03David Sims?

  Okay, well, uh, they take this project, once they're sort of like, okay, like, we've put this all together to Annapurna, as we said, and Annapurna sells it to Netflix pretty quickly, according to the cones, and it is a mistake of trade reporting that it's reported as a series. And I think it's partly that it was still so new-

• 1:27:20Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:27:21David Sims?

  For like, these movies to be on Netflix, and it's announced as this anthology of stories that I think, you know, Variety at all are just kind of like, oh, is it like a television mini-series? Like, is that so hot right now?

• 1:27:32Speaker 04

  No filmmaker would be going with a film to Netflix at this point, you know, like, right? Or-

• 1:27:37Griffin Newman?

  Well, also part of it, I mean, kind of-

• 1:27:39Speaker 05

  We've got House of Cards. We've got, uh, Fincher.

• 1:27:41Speaker 04

  Right, but you, but no, but no filmmaker would come with like a film, like, uh-

• 1:27:46Speaker 05

  I see what you're saying.

• 1:27:46Griffin Newman?

  It felt like Netflix was doing something similar to Annapurna, which was, what's the thing you can't get made anywhere else? And when Netflix made them, a lot of times you were like, oh, there's a reason no one else made this. The script had problems. Things like Duncan Jones's Mute, right? Where you were like, oh, these development hell movies are now going to Netflix as a salvation versus the ones that were good, but were challenging. It felt like Annapurna was financing and then getting theatrical distribution for it.

• 1:28:13David Sims?

  And this is this exact- Doing the Scott Rudin thing of like, what's the thing you've been trying to make? We can figure out how to make it for you.

• 1:28:19Griffin Newman?

  If cinema for adults has kind of died, then we'll put up the money for it.

• 1:28:22Speaker 04

  But it's kind of also like, movies that can't have good trailers, right?

• 1:28:26David Sims?

  Yeah, right, right. Movies that would struggle with an opening weekend expectation or whatever.

• 1:28:31Speaker 04

  Right, so here you just slap it in Netflix, you open up your, your app and there, and then you're like, it's there, I'm watching it.

• 1:28:36Griffin Newman?

  But they're absolutely kind of riding high for going to Netflix at this point. A lot of the people who are going to Netflix are like, coming off of a shaky period. I guess Irishman's the year after this, which is another big turning point of like, oh, fuck, here's this movie that the studios were too scared to make-

• 1:28:54David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:28:54Griffin Newman?

  And they're rolling out the carpet for Scorsese.

• 1:28:56David Sims?

  And Irishman, the Scorsese, the thing about Irishman and Flower Moon is like, they are very long.

• 1:29:00Griffin Newman?

  And very expensive.

• 1:29:01David Sims?

  And they were expensive to make. They probably still would have made decent amounts of money. But they're long and expensive.

• 1:29:08Speaker 04

  I don't think.

• 1:29:08Griffin Newman?

  A decent amount in theaters.

• 1:29:09Speaker 04

  I think I would have loved to have seen the Coens do Flower Moon. That story is a Coen, like that to me is like.

• 1:29:15Griffin Newman?

  It's very Coen-y.

• 1:29:16Speaker 04

  And it drives me, and I love Scorsese, obviously, but that, I would love to have seen the humor in that more, because that's a movie where you're talking about a lot of this kind of just manipulation fun.

• 1:29:27David Sims?

  No, for sure. There's a way to make it more. This is a quote from Joel. I like this about television. TV, thing about TV series I don't understand, I think it's hard for both of us to get our minds around, is feature films have a beginning, a middle and an end. Open-ended stories have a beginning, a middle, and then they're beaten to death until they're exhausted and they die. I do think that's a funny way to talk about really successful television. Because like, only a couple of shows truly got to end on their own terms. Well, usually if you're successful, it's like, yay, our show rocks.

• 1:29:55Griffin Newman?

  You're a victim of your own success.

• 1:29:57David Sims?

  We're still going and it's like, no, like, you're done.

• 1:30:00Speaker 04

  Except for the UK model, which was, you know, was like, yeah.

• 1:30:04Griffin Newman?

  But you're right. Most, most often shows end.

• 1:30:06David Sims?

  Past Mester will never end.

• 1:30:08Griffin Newman?

  Most often shows end unresolved because they didn't get where they wanted to and they were taken away too soon. Or they're victims of their own success that are stretched out far past the natural ending point of the story.

• 1:30:18David Sims?

  The Coens also say, they are literal about this, they're like, no studio would have financed this film. Like with the one, like where it's like, hey, why'd you go to streaming? And they're like, why do you think? Nobody's gonna make this movie. This is not a commercial movie and it's an expensive movie. And we see how the industry is changing and they only want to make franchise movies. And like, you know, they're.

• 1:30:35Speaker 04

  Isn't expensive because it's period?

• 1:30:37David Sims?

  Yeah, I think this movie was like a huge pain in the ass to make because this is the one where Ethan's like, I am really exhausted.

• 1:30:43Griffin Newman?

  It is the reason, yes, that the split up in quotes between the two of them is at the end of this, Ethan's like, I'm so fucking wiped out. I don't want to make another movie. And Joel goes, I guess if you don't want to do it, can I do stuff solo?

• 1:30:57David Sims?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:30:58Griffin Newman?

  And then Ethan ends up getting this second win and deciding that he wants to make very, very serious, complicated lesbian drama.

• 1:31:04David Sims?

  Society, right, for society coming.

• 1:31:07Griffin Newman?

  But, but he, when, when it was sort of talked about and people were like, are they talking around a blow up that happened between the two of them? Was there a falling out? Is there an illness? Is it an industry thing? Whatever it was, the line was always Ethan saying, we made too many westerns in a row. That that no country was tough. Some films in between. True grit was really tough.

• 1:31:28David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:31:28Griffin Newman?

  Some films and then this, he basically was like, it was an idiotic.

• 1:31:33Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 1:31:33Griffin Newman?

  Ambition on our part. It felt like making six complete movies. Even though they were short, it felt like six separate productions in a row.

• 1:31:41Speaker 05

  Scope of them is massive.

• 1:31:43David Sims?

  Right. They're not, they don't feel small.

• 1:31:45Speaker 05

  Not at all.

• 1:31:46David Sims?

  I mean, maybe in past, but that's about it.

• 1:31:48Griffin Newman?

  Almost all exteriors.

• 1:31:49David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:31:49Griffin Newman?

  He was like, it was just months on uncovered sets. Every couple of weeks it would basically reset with a new cast. We'd have to rethink visually the new story.

• 1:31:59Speaker 05

  So many of these people are old, like Tom Waits. I was watching Tom Waits.

• 1:32:04David Sims?

  Did he look old to you?

• 1:32:06Speaker 05

  Do so much in this. I was like, wow, he must have been exhausted.

• 1:32:11Griffin Newman?

  No, and I, I think Ethan even said like, that much time outdoors uncovered sets. It wouldn't have been a problem when we were young.

• 1:32:19Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:32:19Griffin Newman?

  But we got ourselves out there and even just being like five years older than they were when they made true grit or more. Seven, you know, and that's already a couple of years past. They were like the additional 10 years between when we started making westerns and this one. We were just like, I can't handle that.

• 1:32:36Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:32:40Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:32:41David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:41Griffin Newman?

  This episode is brought to you by XYZ Films and the acclaimed new documentary Capturing Bigfoot. On October 20th, 1967, Roger Patterson captured 59 seconds of film showing a creature walking through the Northern California woods. I wonder if you can log that on Letterboxd.

• 1:32:58David Sims?

  It is an iconic video.

• 1:32:59Griffin Newman?

  Footage that became the most analyzed and debated in history. 59 years later, a reel of 16 millimeter film discovered in a safe changes everything. Capturing Bigfoot reveals the untold story behind the world's greatest mystery told for the first time by Patterson's own son and the people who were there. This is a story about family legacy, broken friendships, and how far people will go to protect a secret.

• 1:33:22David Sims?

  Of course, you got the classic, what they call Patterson Gimlin film. Everyone knows of Bigfoot out in the woods, like the famous Bigfoot picture. This has other stuff shot by him that no one's ever seen. That's what makes this movie different.

• 1:33:34Griffin Newman?

  But we're also talking brand new 4K scans of the original film taken from the Patterson family archives that some historians have called the best rendering of the footage ever seen.

• 1:33:43David Sims?

  I feel like we've all seen that footage as like grainy.

• 1:33:45Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:33:46David Sims?

  You know, that you see, you know, whatever, you see it in a documentary for two seconds. But this is restoring it and making it look much more clear.

• 1:33:53Griffin Newman?

  There's also a companion podcast, the Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, which goes deeper into the legend and lore of Bigfoot and the Patterson Gimlin film, featuring weekly episodes with experts in cryptozoology, urban legends, and filmmaking.

• 1:34:07David Sims?

  I'm something of an expert in cryptozoology.

• 1:34:09Griffin Newman?

  Well, of course, yes, but that's more of a hobby.

• 1:34:12David Sims?

  Yeah, this podcast, Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, is hosted by the director of the film, Mark Evans, and it's available for free on YouTube and Spotify with exclusive episodes and content available on Patreon to members of the Capturing Bigfoot Society.

• 1:34:27Griffin Newman?

  Capturing Bigfoot is now available to rent or own on Amazon Prime Video. Learn more about Capturing Bigfoot at capturingbigfoot.com.

• 1:34:44Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:34:44David Sims?

  Yes?

• 1:34:45Griffin Newman?

  People cut the cord. Means the death of the repeat, the rerun. But where, where do repeats still exist? In your closet.

• 1:34:53David Sims?

  Ah, the sweater that goes with everything, Griffin. The tee you somehow always reach for first?

• 1:34:58Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's, we know the feeling.

• 1:35:01David Sims?

  Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy. That's what Quince does best.

• 1:35:04Griffin Newman?

  Quince.

• 1:35:04David Sims?

  This is true for me. I will say, I go to Quince.

• 1:35:07Griffin Newman?

  Hmm.

• 1:35:07David Sims?

  I buy a thing like a polo shirt, a sweater, whatever. And I'm like, oh, I like that. Guess I'll get a bunch more because now that's what I'm gonna put on.

• 1:35:15Griffin Newman?

  Quince focuses on high-quality wardrobe staples made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and merino wool. The styles are timeless, versatile, and designed to become the dependable pieces you reach for day after day.

• 1:35:30David Sims?

  Love it. They got those 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters. Those start at just $60.

• 1:35:34Griffin Newman?

  I love those.

• 1:35:35David Sims?

  Giving you the softness and quality you'd expect from a luxury brand without that luxury price tag. And, look, it's starting to get chillier. You're gonna need layers, right? How about you just do Quince for every layer, huh?

• 1:35:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:48David Sims?

  Jacket, sweater, shirt.

• 1:35:50Griffin Newman?

  David, you know what I love?

• 1:35:51David Sims?

  What?

• 1:35:51Griffin Newman?

  The ultimate commuter pants.

• 1:35:53David Sims?

  Oh.

• 1:35:54Griffin Newman?

  Cause I'm commuting constantly.

• 1:35:56David Sims?

  Beep beep.

• 1:35:57Griffin Newman?

  Yep, that's me. David, I like these. They're just clean. They're comfortable. They got the right amount of pockets.

• 1:36:03David Sims?

  Wow. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers, or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know. It was blank check. It's the best way to support the show.

• 1:36:29Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:36:29David Sims?

  Yes?

• 1:36:30Griffin Newman?

  He lurks in shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula, a new full cast audio thriller starring Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, and an A-list cast, including Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, Amy Lou Wood as Lucy, David Johnson as Dr. Seward, and many more. That is an all-star cast.

• 1:36:51David Sims?

  Yeah, this new full cast thriller locks Mina Harker in a battle of minds with the Count. When Mina's fiance Jonathan Harker, Louis Partridge, vanishes in Transylvania, Mina pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula's already hunting her.

• 1:37:10Griffin Newman?

  Joined by the enigmatic Van Helsing, Mina and a small fearless band race against time to stop this ancient terror. Using her intellect, her resolve, and a gift for drawing the unseen lines between clues, Mina may just hold the key to bring down the Count if he hasn't already found his way inside her mind.

• 1:37:26David Sims?

  Featuring a haunting original score by Elon Eschery and a spatial dolby Atmos sound design, Audible's Dracula invites you to welcome literature's most shadowy figure into your home. Feel the terror of being hunted and the thrill of the hunt. Don't miss this year's best new audio thriller, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Audible's new full cast original adaptation, written by Robin Ahern, now on Audible. Listen to the darkness. Go to audible.com/listen2dracula.

• 1:37:59David Sims?

  Tim Blake Nelson, as you say, had been shown this script all the way back when. And then apparently just once in a while, and he was excited about it.

• 1:38:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:05David Sims?

  And then once in a while, Joe will be like, hey, by the way, one day we're gonna do that. So get ready.

• 1:38:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:10David Sims?

  And then they're like, we're gonna do it. So can you do pistol tricks? And can you play guitar and can you sing? And also can you learn all this dialogue?

• 1:38:15Griffin Newman?

  You have six months, starting now.

• 1:38:16David Sims?

  Right. Tim was like, what? And then he had to like, learn guitar specifically to be in this movie.

• 1:38:20Griffin Newman?

  His son is like a very good musician.

• 1:38:23David Sims?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:38:24Griffin Newman?

  He, he has a beautiful singing voice and he learned, like, singing was part of his training at Juilliard. But he, he credits his son, he has a really good WTF episode.

• 1:38:33David Sims?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:38:33Griffin Newman?

  Where he credits his son, where he was just like, this incredible bonding exercise of me being able to go to my son, who was a guitar prodigy and be like, I'm hiring you to spend the next six months, teach me how to do all of this. And they got very close doing it.

• 1:38:47David Sims?

  Can I give you Zoe Kazan's incredible take on this movie? And she obviously, I mean, like with all these actors, it's like, hey, why'd you do it? She's like, I don't know, it was a Coen Brothers movie. Like, what am I, you're gonna not do it? Um, she says, she thinks the whole thing is all bound together in a really clever way. Each chapter prepares you for the next. The first one is like, it's gonna be a good time. People will die, but it's gonna be fun. By the third one, that expectation has been reversed. It's like amusement comes with a price, you know, entertainment is not easy. And like, you've watched the deaths of all these protagonists, right? Tom Waits is, reverses the pattern a little bear, a bit, there's hope. And then Gal, who gets rattled, is the opposite, where you're like, you're in it, you're invested the most. It has the most crushing ending.

• 1:39:28David Sims?

  And then the final one is just this dream logic of like, you know, this museum of death.

• 1:39:33Speaker 05

  What comes next?

• 1:39:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, we'll get into it more, but that's my.

• 1:39:36Speaker 04

  I do love that quote. That's a guy.

• 1:39:37David Sims?

  She's fucking smart.

• 1:39:39Griffin Newman?

  Everyone who's worked with her says that as well.

• 1:39:41Speaker 04

  Yeah. And I think that.

• 1:39:43Speaker 05

  She and I worked together on the Nia Vardalos movie, I Hate Valentine's Day.

• 1:39:46Griffin Newman?

  Whoa, whoa.

• 1:39:47David Sims?

  Jason, you're in that?

• 1:39:49Speaker 05

  Oh, don't you worry, I am.

• 1:39:51Griffin Newman?

  Oh, do you go on dates with her?

• 1:39:52Speaker 04

  I'm so worried.

• 1:39:54Speaker 05

  Freaking out. Do you go on a date with her? And she's like, I hate. No, no. Nia Vardalos is falling in love with John Corbett once again. One of their four movies together. Yes. She has a kind of regular lunch group of friends. You're one of the buds. Downloads with, and it's me, Zoe, Dratch and Judah Friedlander. Guys are all the same age. Yes. Crazy. The wrecking crew. Yeah, the wrecking crew, AKA the wrecking crew. That movie is not perfect.

• 1:40:26Speaker 05

  David, David, wait a second. A gracious. It is very gracious of you, David. It is not perfect, but I had the most wonderful time making it. It sounds like a good crew. Dynamite. And it was maybe one of the very first movies I was ever in, in a meaningful way, like multiple scenes. That's a long time ago. You know? Oh, yeah.

• 1:40:46Speaker 04

  I will also say that when you just said something about not about Valentine's Day, but the, uh, the dossier coming up and saying like that she read all the pieces, which again, these are two things that surprised me. A that Netflix didn't approach them. And then B, that they're giving the full script out to everyone because it feels to me, it's like, oh, here's the piece we want you to do. Don't worry about the rest. It's not important.

• 1:41:05Griffin Newman?

  Weird misreporting about this film and the assumption that it was a TV show was also that like in some of the trade announcements, they said that it was a project under Annapurna's new television division.

• 1:41:17Speaker 05

  Oh, okay.

• 1:41:18Griffin Newman?

  And also because Netflix is doing so much playing with format stuff. I have heard conspiracy theories in the past that there was a little bit of deliberate trickery and knowing that Netflix would be more willing to sign off on this, even though their intention was always to make it a movie. That is pure conjecture, but they have been very upfront. Everyone who works on this movie is very upfront that it was like, the script is a finished thing. It is in this order and everyone reads it from beginning to end.

• 1:41:44Speaker 04

  And this is, you know, when I talked to Quentin Tarantino, uh, he talked publicly on the radio, so I'm not, I'm not, uh, not radio, but on the podcast. He was saying that they kind of tricked Harvey into Kill Bill, you know, to kind of maneuver how they wanted it to be released too. So I think that that's just part of good producing.

• 1:42:04Speaker 05

  It's good that someone was able to trick Harvey after Harvey tricked. So many people.

• 1:42:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, a hundred percent.

• 1:42:10Speaker 05

  But I do.

• 1:42:11David Sims?

  What's up with him?

• 1:42:12Griffin Newman?

  You're saying mostly, mostly just.

• 1:42:13Speaker 05

  Haven't heard from him in a minute.

• 1:42:14Griffin Newman?

  You're saying mostly just the editing room.

• 1:42:15Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:42:16Griffin Newman?

  His notorious editing room battle.

• 1:42:18Speaker 04

  But I do feel like that, like, I think that that's all fair play because it's sort of like, just get it made. Go get the thing because it doesn't make a difference for Netflix ultimately, I don't think.

• 1:42:26Griffin Newman?

  No, no, and they've been very clear that it was like, this is always what we want it to be. And that's what it was.

• 1:42:31Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:42:31Griffin Newman?

  And whether it was just misreporting because they tend to keep the lid on very tight while they're working on stuff. So there's a lot of speculation that leads to like fact, theorizing, getting printed as fact. Or if that was part of their kind of clever.

• 1:42:48Speaker 04

  Well, you blew my mind when you said that he wasn't sick for the breakup. I, oh, I thought whatever I read was that he was sick and then that was.

• 1:42:54Griffin Newman?

  No, it's like, I'm really fucking tired and I like need time to recharge and maybe I'll come back to it.

• 1:42:58Speaker 05

  I get it.

• 1:42:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:59David Sims?

  It was a pain to make. Uh, they shot it in Nebraska, Colorado, New Mexico, almost all in location, except for the final segment, which was shot on a stage. Obviously it's mostly in its carriage.

• 1:43:11Speaker 04

  Well, that also that.

• 1:43:11David Sims?

  In the ass.

• 1:43:12Speaker 04

  That, uh, the first sequence is in the very famous, I've shot there multiple times, the famous old west town that's standing in, uh, right outside of Los Angeles.

• 1:43:21David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:43:21Speaker 04

  And that you would see Deadwood and, uh, yeah, everything in it's.

• 1:43:24Griffin Newman?

  Don't they, is it in that segment where they refer to Valverde in this movie, which is like.

• 1:43:28Speaker 05

  Really?

• 1:43:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, which is the famous kind of shared fake.

• 1:43:32David Sims?

  They're like fake.

• 1:43:33Griffin Newman?

  South American.

• 1:43:33Speaker 05

  American country that like of the.

• 1:43:35David Sims?

  It's in, uh, commando.

• 1:43:36Speaker 05

  Yeah. What's the guy, the writer who wrote all those movies?

• 1:43:39David Sims?

  Steven D'Souza.

• 1:43:40Speaker 05

  Thank you. It's D'Souza.

• 1:43:41David Sims?

  It's a D'Souza ref.

• 1:43:42Speaker 05

  It is.

• 1:43:43David Sims?

  Actually, no.

• 1:43:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but Valverde is invoked at some point in this film. There is this like owning of the kind of like, uh, collective monomyth of the American West via movies, right?

• 1:43:54Speaker 05

  Well, also not for nothing, the fact that in that opening, uh, segment, Tim Blake Nelson is killed by Seth Bullock. Uh, Tim Oliphant.

• 1:44:03Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:44:03Speaker 05

  Uh, you know, putting a Deadwood actor in there, putting like, there's something really wonderful about that.

• 1:44:08Speaker 04

  I also thought that that opening sequence is movie, uh, old west. He's in the white cowboy outfit. It's like, it's very. Everything else is much more grounded in a more realistic way.

• 1:44:20Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. The juxtaposition of him and Clancy Brown is incredible.

• 1:44:24Griffin Newman?

  It's also like, he's like a 40s movie cowboy and he is killed by like a 60s movie cowboy. Both of them are fictionalized heightened stylized version of phony cowboys existing in a milieu of like, these are what the actual guys were like.

• 1:44:39Speaker 05

  Right. This is basically the Coens playing with toys.

• 1:44:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:42Speaker 05

  You know?

• 1:44:42David Sims?

  This first one, absolutely.

• 1:44:44Griffin Newman?

  I mean, you're kind of identifying why I love this one.

• 1:44:47David Sims?

  Yeah, but like the joke of like, okay, or the puzzle of like, you're in the saloon. You're not allowed a weapon. How do you?

• 1:44:53Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:44:53David Sims?

  How do you kill somebody? Like, it's fun.

• 1:44:55Speaker 05

  What if Seth Bullock, but also Roy Rogers?

• 1:44:58David Sims?

  Um, but it's also right. What Griffin is saying of kind of like, now your time has come, Buster. Like, you're gonna, you, you, you're gonna get knocked off the board.

• 1:45:07Griffin Newman?

  You're more of a, but the western isn't gone, but the, the type of character.

• 1:45:10David Sims?

  The trick shots, the cheerful singing and all that. It's like, okay.

• 1:45:13Griffin Newman?

  Officially uncool.

• 1:45:14Speaker 05

  Yeah. Oh, and it's, it happens before, but I loved the sequence where he kills Surly Joe. He's singing the Surly Joe song and dancing and everyone's getting on board for it. But they keep cutting back to Surly Joe's brother coming in and finding.

• 1:45:28David Sims?

  It's kind of a Tim Robbins sketch.

• 1:45:30Speaker 05

  What the fuck?

• 1:45:31David Sims?

  Oh, no.

• 1:45:32Speaker 05

  Who did this? He's dead. That sequence is so funny.

• 1:45:37Griffin Newman?

  Every single line of dialogue he has is funny to me. It is funny in a way as written. You can just imagine the Coens giggling to themselves about like, imagine Tim saying this. There are moments of like pure like elation that I have in this segment. I mean, his killing of Clancy Brown is truly, I know I've been using a lot of hyperbole across the series because I love the Coens so much. That is amongst the hardest I've ever laughed in a theater.

• 1:46:01Speaker 05

  It's so good.

• 1:46:02Griffin Newman?

  Yes. I lost my fucking mind.

• 1:46:03David Sims?

  It's so funny.

• 1:46:04Griffin Newman?

  I saw this at, at the IFC with our friend JD Amato in like one of the five basically unadvertised days it was playing. And there was almost no one else in the theater outside of a recently canceled Louis CK.

• 1:46:15Speaker 05

  Oh, wow.

• 1:46:17Griffin Newman?

  It was like a very odd experience. We walk in, we're like, that's him, right?

• 1:46:20Speaker 04

  Was he laughing at anything?

• 1:46:22Griffin Newman?

  He laughed a lot.

• 1:46:22Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:46:23Griffin Newman?

  He liked it a lot.

• 1:46:24Speaker 05

  Cause it would be funny.

• 1:46:25Speaker 04

  You're talking about the author, right?

• 1:46:27Griffin Newman?

  The novel. Yeah.

• 1:46:28David Sims?

  It would be funny if he

• 1:46:30Griffin Newman?

  He works in a western.

• 1:46:31David Sims?

  Kick the board and made him shoot himself once, but then he does it then six times.

• 1:46:35Speaker 04

  Well, that's one time is funny.

• 1:46:36David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:46:37Griffin Newman?

  Six times is the funniest thing I've ever.

• 1:46:39Speaker 04

  I feel like the image I see when I look at him in this is Bugs Bunny with the guns on his holster. That is like, I feel this image, it's like everything. If you told me this was literally shot for shot of Warner Brothers Looney Tunes.

• 1:46:51David Sims?

  A hundred percent.

• 1:46:53Griffin Newman?

  And, and I even think the dust silhouette and all these things of like establishing cartoon logic, the way at the end when he dies, he becomes an angel with little wings and a harp.

• 1:47:02David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:02Speaker 04

  That's straight Looney Tunes.

• 1:47:04David Sims?

  Oscar nominated song.

• 1:47:05Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:47:05David Sims?

  He sings an Oscar.

• 1:47:06Speaker 04

  Oh, nice.

• 1:47:07David Sims?

  When a cowboy trades his, trades his spurs for wings. Well, he performs it in the movie. I can't remember.

• 1:47:11Speaker 04

  If he performed it.

• 1:47:12David Sims?

  I think Gillian Welch did it on stage.

• 1:47:14Griffin Newman?

  It's mostly the other guys singing it. I believe Gillian Welch did it.

• 1:47:16Speaker 04

  Oh, David Rawlings?

• 1:47:17David Sims?

  David Rawlings.

• 1:47:18Griffin Newman?

  Hey, there we go. Do you guys know?

• 1:47:20Speaker 04

  I've got those albums. Don't worry about it.

• 1:47:21David Sims?

  I was gonna say, it's like Jason does not have like a laptop open.

• 1:47:25Griffin Newman?

  A short side tangent that will be worth it.

• 1:47:27David Sims?

  Please.

• 1:47:27Griffin Newman?

  I promise you.

• 1:47:28David Sims?

  I'm fine.

• 1:47:29Speaker 04

  Now we're in.

• 1:47:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:31Speaker 04

  The show has started.

• 1:47:32Griffin Newman?

  We're doing great. We're actually ahead of schedule.

• 1:47:34Speaker 04

  It's so funny. David has genuinely calmed down. The tension was just for the words that begin the show.

• 1:47:41David Sims?

  A little bit.

• 1:47:41Griffin Newman?

  We're doing great, David. We only have five more segments to talk about. So here's my side tangent.

• 1:47:46Speaker 04

  David, as, as a parent. I feel that pressure. I, I, I feel it. I've recorded episodes where I've come down and my wife is like, what, what possibly could you be doing?

• 1:47:59David Sims?

  Like the idea of coming down and being like, oh, but we had 18 more minutes on fucking Predator.

• 1:48:05Griffin Newman?

  And we're not resolved on the.

• 1:48:06Speaker 04

  Griff and I are like, let's go child.

• 1:48:09Griffin Newman?

  Rapsalian bachelors.

• 1:48:11Speaker 04

  We have nothing to do. I'm in New York. I don't have my family. I'm very happily, uh, can stay as long as I like.

• 1:48:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:18Speaker 04

  We do have a show tonight. Oh, well, that, that, yeah, that, that was.

• 1:48:21Griffin Newman?

  I'm covering the show.

• 1:48:22Speaker 04

  Oh, really? Oh, my gosh. Well, look, we'll.

• 1:48:24David Sims?

  And it is in Manhattan, right?

• 1:48:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:48:26David Sims?

  Yeah, right.

• 1:48:27Griffin Newman?

  And the great New York City.

• 1:48:28Speaker 04

  The great.

• 1:48:29Griffin Newman?

  Town Hall. Yes. Uh, George Lucas Talk Show. Yes. Uh, when we were doing so much of it during the pandemic over live streams. Uh, Connor, as he is want to do, got very into the idea of producing an original soundtrack album on vinyl. I remember. Because there'd been enough songs that we like improvised or musical performances. Yes. So there were like a couple of original songs, but there were times where we ended up doing improvised like covers of other songs and Connor, as is his want, was like, I'm gonna produce like, you know, 300 of these or whatever, but I want to legally clear every single second of it. And he spent like a year going through and clearing every kind of musical thing.

• 1:49:11Griffin Newman?

  And any artist we had had on the show who had representation from someone else, making sure like, no one's gonna make money off this, but I want this to all be above board. Right? And one of the things was we had someone perform one of the songs from the Star Wars Holiday Special. And there's so much mystery around the Star Wars Holiday Special because everyone ran for the hills and tried to, you know, eschew credit for that. And he was like, we gotta figure out who wrote this song. I think it was the Bea Arthur song. And Connor did months of digging and found out that it was written by two kind of like go to 50s, 60s variety show comedy legends who did most of the original songs for the Carol Burnett Show. Oh, cool. Who died decades ago.

• 1:49:55Griffin Newman?

  And that Disney has never bothered to copyright the holiday special songs. Because Lucas disowned it. Right. Fox never did it. Lucasfilm never did it. Disney didn't do it now. It's like just out there. No one has the rights. And he was like, who is the next of kin for this, these old Borscht Melty comedy writers? And it was Gillian Welch. Her parents Whoa. wrote the songs for the Star Wars Holiday Special. And Connor got connected with her and he was like, weirdest phone call you're ever gonna receive in your life. You actually own five Star Wars songs? Wow.

• 1:50:30Griffin Newman?

  Did she have any, did she have any knowledge of that? No, so like she like made a deal with him for nothing, right? But she was like, thanks for letting me know I like have IP over Disney.

• 1:50:42Speaker 04

  That is wild. And I feel like that, well, I mean, that special is amazing. I got to do a documentary about it where I got to read the outline that was given. And it is one of the best pieces of like, it's, it's great. I mean, everything about that and how weird it was. I feel like, I feel like it needs to be released, like in a, in a, and it's remastered.

• 1:51:06David Sims?

  I think George and Harrison may have to depart this mortal coil for like it to actually be like.

• 1:51:11Speaker 04

  Well, did you hear though that?

• 1:51:13David Sims?

  That they're remastering the original.

• 1:51:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:51:14David Sims?

  Yeah. I mean, I live in hope.

• 1:51:16Griffin Newman?

  The story had always been.

• 1:51:18Speaker 04

  I live in a new hope.

• 1:51:18David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:51:19Griffin Newman?

  The stories have always been that contractually, when George sold Lucasfilm to Disney, one of his baked in conditions was you cannot release the original theatricals. That even upon leaving, he was like, you can't do it without me. So something has changed.

• 1:51:35David Sims?

  Something has changed. Either they convinced him or he, you know, it expired or something.

• 1:51:39Griffin Newman?

  Do you know that like right now, as we record in the Disney parks, they have Chewbacca, the walk around Chewbacca with the red robe and the Life Day orb? Oh, wow. Like they will not let the holiday special out legally, but there's like merchandise of it. References. And there's references to it.

• 1:51:54Speaker 04

  Well, but, but because now what they've done is Lego did a, I, I worked with Disney and a very high up executive at Lucasfilm. I had done a special for Marvel where I did documentary about this failed comic book called Brute Force. And we went back and got to do some stuff and, and Kevin Feige allowed us a little bit of leeway until there was none. And then, uh, and, but then they were like, can you do this for the, the special? So we can maybe re-air the special and, but that died a much quicker death.

• 1:52:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:27David Sims?

  Someone catches wind and is like, no, right, squish.

• 1:52:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Um, I, I, uh, no, I just, I, I love everything about the segment. The moment for me that is like, I enter a state of nirvana. Is when in the sort of standoff, he turns to the camera. It is not the first time he's spoken to the camera.

• 1:52:47Speaker 05

  Talks about the mirror where he's like, and I'm up and I'm backwards and I'm looking at him.

• 1:52:50Griffin Newman?

  It's before that. It's the moment that introduces that because at the beginning, of course, he's on the horse. He's singing, he's talking to the camera, he's acknowledging it, right? But then he's sort of been in his world, entering these tough bars. Everyone's laughing at him being like, what the fuck is up with this guy? And then he reasserts his dominance, right? And this whole like Cohen thing of this tension between this guy who seems like an idiot goofball, also being capable of like intense horrific violence, right? The sort of like subtext under the moviefied, cleaned up version of an American myth. And he stayed in that reality for like 10 continuous minutes, I feel like. And then he's in the shoot off, he's done the five fingers, right?

• 1:53:34Griffin Newman?

  He like in this fucking shootout decides to shoot all five of the guy's fingers off so that he can't fire the gun. And he's like trying to figure out if he can do it with his left dominant hand, right? And Tim Blake Nelson turns back to the camera that's behind him and goes, I ain't got but the one bullet left. And it's with this like Bugs Bunny, ain't I a stinker? Like he's thrilled at the challenge.

• 1:54:02Speaker 05

  Well, what's so fun about this whole segment is it starts off so big in scale and scope, and it just gets closer and closer and closer in so that at a certain point, especially once he's talking to us, it is conspiratorial. Tim Blake Nelson is including us in his mischief and us, he's letting us in on what's going on in a way that I was like, oh, I love it. And that he, that there are no more narrators, that there are no more talking to us. That goes away once he dies.

• 1:54:32Griffin Newman?

  And what's happening here goes beyond self-defense, right? What you need to do to survive in the West, because even like the Clancy Brown thing is like, the rules of poker, you know, that's a dead man's hand. You have to respect that if he doesn't like.

• 1:54:45Speaker 05

  And when he goes, I would appreciate it if you would go and, and turn your firearm into the, the closet over there or whatever, you know, the gun, the gun check. Um, it was so funny. He's just so unfazed by everything.

• 1:54:58Griffin Newman?

  But at this point, it's like, okay, there's a shootout. He, there is self-defense. He needs to shoot first. He's actually just torturing this man.

• 1:55:05Speaker 04

  Well, but.

• 1:55:05Griffin Newman?

  To not just shoot him in the head, but to shoot his fingers off one by one.

• 1:55:08David Sims?

  It's not just a white hat 40's thing. It's violent, it's cruel. There's a weird dissonance to that that I love.

• 1:55:15Griffin Newman?

  And then, as you say, at that moment, after he shot all five fingers off, turns to the audience and is like, we're having fun here, right?

• 1:55:21David Sims?

  And they are.

• 1:55:22Speaker 04

  And, but this is also, we talked about Looney Tunes, but that's also Three Stooges, which I think is very much them too. Like, Three Stooges is violent.

• 1:55:29David Sims?

  It's quite brutal.

• 1:55:30Speaker 04

  Right. And if you were to look at it, it's like, you can see it one way, you can see it another way. And then I think that like, to your point, Jason, when they, when he's like, my brother, like that, it's like, oh, we, that's this weird line that the whole movie walks where it's like, it is real, but we also have him going up with a little angel wings and a harp. And it's like, and that to me, that, that's what I love about this, just the, I mean, it's, I would say it's probably the best piece of the entire film because I think it is the most, I don't know, the, the most, and most thought out, the most beautifully done.

• 1:56:04Griffin Newman?

  And this beautiful moment of like, I got the one bullet, turns around, fucking vanity mirror, silver plated, right? Figuring out the angles of where to shoot. Then he calls out like, it's risky. I shouldn't get too fancy with it. As if he isn't already doing this trick shot, then murders this man in cold blood and then gets challenged to a new duel by this like new Hollywood Western cowboy, right? And this guy is obeying the same rules. The reason why he's able to shoot Buster Scruggs down is because he doesn't do the fucking preamble.

• 1:56:36Speaker 04

  Right. He's not talking to the camera. He's not playing the, he's not playing to the thing. Cause he, like Buster Scruggs is actually playing to the audience, right? Cause he's like, he's like, yeah, yeah, we could do the count. Like he, it's almost like someone's calling him off stage.

• 1:56:47Speaker 05

  The moment where he uses the same mirror to look at the bullet.

• 1:56:52Speaker 04

  Hole in his own head. Yes. Is wonderful.

• 1:56:55Griffin Newman?

  And the reveal of the.

• 1:56:56Speaker 04

  And the framing of that.

• 1:56:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. And even when this cowboy is walking away and singing this Oscar nominated song, he's not doing it down the barrel of the lens. He's singing, but it's like, we shift to like a Capua Baloo.

• 1:57:08David Sims?

  We have to move on though. We do have to move on. We have five more segments to do.

• 1:57:12Griffin Newman?

  Segment two.

• 1:57:13David Sims?

  You're Algodonius? Anyone help me? No. Okay. Now, this is the simplest one joke, like premise, right? Right? It's sort of all building to punchline. I do really like it. It, it feel, this is the most like, it feels like a cute little short story.

• 1:57:32Speaker 04

  This is the slightest. Wait, which one is it? Tell me. This is the James.

• 1:57:35Griffin Newman?

  This is Franco.

• 1:57:36Speaker 04

  Yeah. Oh, yes. Steven Root.

• 1:57:38David Sims?

  I think Franco is.

• 1:57:38Speaker 04

  Galactus.

• 1:57:39David Sims?

  Incredibly well cast in this.

• 1:57:41Griffin Newman?

  Is in this.

• 1:57:41Speaker 04

  Galactus is in it.

• 1:57:42David Sims?

  Yeah. And he's there. He's there.

• 1:57:44Griffin Newman?

  Me of my cosmic burden.

• 1:57:46Speaker 04

  I hunger.

• 1:57:47David Sims?

  Um, I don't, I mean, I don't know what you guys.

• 1:57:49Speaker 04

  But Kang is there too, right?

• 1:57:51Griffin Newman?

  Kang is. A couple of Kangs. There are a couple of Kangs.

• 1:57:54Speaker 04

  They're all Kangs. I mean, this is the cool thing about this. Everybody in this is a Kang. Yes. I loved when the time variance authority showed up.

• 1:58:00Griffin Newman?

  I love Mr. Timely. When he, when's he coming back?

• 1:58:03David Sims?

  Many things in whatever phase four, five, whatever that was, five, six, where they were like, this makes sense. There's a lot to draft off here where I'm like, you guys have nothing. Sorry.

• 1:58:14Griffin Newman?

  Nothing. Uh, in my memory, this was like the first major post, like me too.

• 1:58:20David Sims?

  I was about to say.

• 1:58:21Griffin Newman?

  Up Franco thing, which gives it an interesting air because you're like, here he is not charming at all.

• 1:58:28David Sims?

  Being an outlaw.

• 1:58:29Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:58:29David Sims?

  He's really, he's well cast. He's really good.

• 1:58:32Griffin Newman?

  About like this guy just barely escaping.

• 1:58:35David Sims?

  Oh.

• 1:58:35Griffin Newman?

  Culpability for his actions.

• 1:58:37David Sims?

  Kind of the last thing he's done that, you know.

• 1:58:39Griffin Newman?

  Mostly disappears after this.

• 1:58:41David Sims?

  Right. That anyone really watched.

• 1:58:42Speaker 04

  I, I was wondering if this was shot for.

• 1:58:45Griffin Newman?

  I think it was shot before, but came out quite a bit after because of their post-production.

• 1:58:50David Sims?

  It's similar to the deuce where it's like the deuce wrapped up in 2019 or whatever, which is the other sort of last thing he did of note.

• 1:58:56Griffin Newman?

  But this is his last major credit for a good chunk of time.

• 1:58:59David Sims?

  He's such a good comparison to Root in. Total like gonzo.

• 1:59:05Speaker 05

  Oh my god.

• 1:59:06David Sims?

  Steven in like silliest Bug Man mode.

• 1:59:08Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, incredible.

• 1:59:10David Sims?

  And like, I mean, the gag, the thing, all right, so the thing about this one is apart from the gag of first time, which is hilarious, right, which like hit for me so hard and I laughed when I saw it. Is that in this one, we're really for the first time seeing like Native Americans, this Comanches as like classic Hollywood villains. Where they are just like violent and scary and have no character.

• 1:59:32Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:59:33David Sims?

  The movie does this twice because Rattles has it as well.

• 1:59:35Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:59:36David Sims?

  And I think it put people off because it's like, you don't see this in revisionist westerns basically ever. Like this kind of like classic cartoony Cowboys and Indian kind of villain thing. And I feel like there, they would, the Coens would just be like, yeah, well, this is the million year we're playing.

• 1:59:50Speaker 05

  Riffing on the history of these types of stories.

• 1:59:52David Sims?

  But it is quite shocking.

• 1:59:53Speaker 05

  I love the moment in it when the, uh, when they're attacking and, and, uh, and Franco's got the noose around and there's one of the, one of the guys who's trying to hang him. First gets an arrow in the throat.

• 2:00:07David Sims?

  Yes, yes.

• 2:00:08Speaker 05

  Pulls it out.

• 2:00:09David Sims?

  Right, it's still going.

• 2:00:10Speaker 05

  Second arrow in the throat. I was like, these are the jokes. This is so good.

• 2:00:15David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:00:15Speaker 05

  But then it's such a funny sequence and then the Indians leave and everybody else is dead. And it's just Franco on his horse, the tension between the horse's appetite for, forcing it further and further, tightening the noose tighter and tighter. That tension is great.

• 2:00:34Speaker 04

  I love, it's such a great moment because you have this great action scene and it is this like, it gives it so much more weight because any moment he could also be, his neck could be snapped and it's, and it's done. And it's like, it's, it's so great, but then that right next to like moments before Steven Root coming out in pots and pans.

• 2:00:56David Sims?

  The silliest getup.

• 2:00:57Speaker 04

  Right, right. Is, and it's amazing.

• 2:01:00David Sims?

  The most comical villain.

• 2:01:01Speaker 05

  He's also put, it's stripped down.

• 2:01:04David Sims?

  With a catchphrase.

• 2:01:05Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:01:05David Sims?

  Pan shot.

• 2:01:06Speaker 05

  Pan shot. And the glee with which.

• 2:01:09Speaker 04

  He's screaming pan shot is so funny.

• 2:01:11Griffin Newman?

  What's skillful about this too is it's all wind up to one punchline, right? It is the like tremendous Cohen's comic irony of a guy being able to be hung for the second time. Right? To be the kind of like old sage.

• 2:01:25David Sims?

  And he's also, well, he's died. Right. He's kind of a ghost. And so he's like, when he's not scared to die the second time.

• 2:01:31Griffin Newman?

  I think it's the opposite thing. My read is this guy thinks that he can't be killed.

• 2:01:36David Sims?

  Oh, that's, that's a fair read.

• 2:01:38Speaker 04

  That he's like, ah, it'll work out. I think the smile, yes.

• 2:01:43Griffin Newman?

  I've been here before. This can't keep me down.

• 2:01:46Speaker 04

  Something will work out. Right. I do think though, it is a one joke thing, but I also think the first joke is one of the funniest. A bank in the middle of nowhere. Like it is, there's no town, there's no anything. And it's like, that image is great.

• 2:02:04David Sims?

  You're right. You're right. You don't even think about it. Like the absurdity of this thing.

• 2:02:07Speaker 04

  That is such a funny fucking thing. And then, and then it just goes and heightens, heightens, heightens.

• 2:02:11David Sims?

  Someone making it all the way out there and being like, what this place needs is a bank.

• 2:02:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Going back to this awkward notion of like these, these developing proper society of America, right? The like, this is how things should be. And yet it isn't quite right yet.

• 2:02:26Speaker 04

  Yes. No, it's so wrong. And I think that that's like, and that's what I love about like, everyone is making these mistakes. But then also, you know, it's like, not doubling down, but it's like, I love how fierce he is to protect himself. Like of course.

• 2:02:40Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:02:40David Sims?

  Like he goes into battle mode.

• 2:02:41Speaker 04

  Yes. Like he's an idiot, maybe to build that bank there, but he's not an idiot to protect the money in the bank. Setup of the shotguns, the scatterguns underneath each teller's window.

• 2:02:52Griffin Newman?

  He's home alone his whole fucking.

• 2:02:55Speaker 04

  Exactly. That's exactly right. Are other tellers there? That's the other thing I was thinking about. Like, is he the only one? Like, I mean, but it is built up like this is a, this is a thoroughfare. Like people are coming in and out.

• 2:03:06Griffin Newman?

  Right. It makes you ask a bunch of questions about who this guy is.

• 2:03:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:03:09Griffin Newman?

  In a good Cohen way where you're like any one scene character, you wish you could learn about their entire life. And a lot of that's in casting, but also the details of like, what made him pick? This place. Has he ever had other employees?

• 2:03:22Speaker 04

  Well, like, I guess I was wondering in this whole thing, how much the Coens talk to their actors about what they want? Because that's also a very big.

• 2:03:30David Sims?

  You always hear like, not that much.

• 2:03:32Speaker 04

  See, that's, and that's like, Clint Eastwood, I, we were, I talked to one person who was in Unforgiven and he was like, he's like, I went to Clint and I was like.

• 2:03:39David Sims?

  Morgan Freeman.

• 2:03:40Speaker 04

  Morgan Freeman said, and he, and he was like, I went to him and I was like, I want to do this. I want to do that. And he goes, no, no, no, you're the actor.

• 2:03:47David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 2:03:48Speaker 04

  You do that.

• 2:03:49David Sims?

  Don't you tell me about it.

• 2:03:50Speaker 04

  Yeah. And I was like, so interesting. And I wondered if they were like this because it's a great choice. He plays it, I mean, they're playing very different energies. And, and you could play that.

• 2:03:59Speaker 05

  Have that degree of freedom on a Clint Eastwood movie, to have that degree of freedom and know that you're only going to get one take. Cause he's famous for only doing one, maybe two takes. That's crazy.

• 2:04:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, I, I feel.

• 2:04:13Griffin Newman?

  We're again to.

• 2:04:14David Sims?

  I just had an intimate dinner with Bradley Cooper.

• 2:04:16Griffin Newman?

  Well, well, well.

• 2:04:17David Sims?

  My intimate dinner, I mean, like me and 20 other people at a dinner for his new movie with him and Will Arnett and.

• 2:04:23Speaker 04

  What'd you, what'd you guys hate?

• 2:04:24Griffin Newman?

  Wait a second. Is this thing on?

• 2:04:26David Sims?

  It was on. This thing was on. And Bradley, of course, did depart before dinner was over to pick up his daughter from Russian class.

• 2:04:31Griffin Newman?

  Sure, of course.

• 2:04:32David Sims?

  Okay.

• 2:04:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:33David Sims?

  Um, but I chatted to Bradley Cooper for a bit and all I wanted to ask him about was Clint Eastwood. Because of course I'm obsessed with Clint Eastwood. And that is what I was asking about. And I was sort of like, is it like, is, is it as intense as you imagine? And he was like, not at all. No, no, no. He was like, he's like jazz, baby. He's just walking around and he's like, why don't you try this? It's all very flowy and smooth. And like, and he was like, and there were a couple of times where we screwed something up.

• 2:04:58Speaker 05

  Oh, interesting.

• 2:04:59David Sims?

  And like, it was okay.

• 2:05:00Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:05:00David Sims?

  Like, nobody was like, uh-oh, Clint's gonna blow his top.

• 2:05:03Speaker 05

  Didn't get it or something.

• 2:05:04David Sims?

  Right. Where it's like, yeah, no, we can relight it. We can, you know, it's like, it wasn't quite as severe as you imagined is how he was putting it to me. Obviously he's Bradley Cooper. He probably has a little more, you know, weight to throw around.

• 2:05:14Speaker 04

  But I think that's also like, I think the misnomer is if you got it, you got it and you move on.

• 2:05:18David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:18Speaker 04

  And I think that that's the difference.

• 2:05:19David Sims?

  Clint's whole thing is, is also, it's just like, I think the more you do it, the more you get away from it. Like that's Clint's like philosophy is what you hear.

• 2:05:26Speaker 04

  By the way, I was just double checking the person that I talked to about Clint Eastwood, Saul Rubenick.

• 2:05:29Griffin Newman?

  Oh, there you go. Of course, and he's so good in them.

• 2:05:31Speaker 04

  Right. And then, and so I just was like, I think it is.

• 2:05:34David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:34Speaker 04

  And, but that idea being like. They, it's like, like Alfred Hitchcock would talk about, like, he's like, oh, I've already done the hard part before I get to set.

• 2:05:42Griffin Newman?

  I think the Coens are closer to that. From what I have heard, without being-

• 2:05:46David Sims?

  They prepare so meticulously for all the visual stuff.

• 2:05:48Griffin Newman?

  That Hitchcock was almost like dismissive of actors.

• 2:05:52David Sims?

  Hitchcock is the kind of like-

• 2:05:53Speaker 05

  He's moving dolls around the set.

• 2:05:55David Sims?

  They're my little Playmobil figures.

• 2:05:56Griffin Newman?

  An impediment to his perfect creative vision.

• 2:05:59Speaker 04

  Finters, if you would argue.

• 2:06:00Griffin Newman?

  I think Eastwood is, I hired you, I trust you, do whatever you want.

• 2:06:03Speaker 04

  I am an actor.

• 2:06:04David Sims?

  But come prepare, know your lines.

• 2:06:06Griffin Newman?

  I expect you to be a professional, but then it's your, this is your space.

• 2:06:10Speaker 05

  I'm not gonna pull this out of you.

• 2:06:11Griffin Newman?

  Right, and the problem is, when, when people are great in Eastwood movies, when he's cast them perfectly, they fucking kill it, and you see people who are sort of like stranded at sea, and you know that he wasn't giving them any help, right?

• 2:06:21Speaker 04

  Well, and I think that you can also say that for Soderbergh is like that too, sometimes. I think Soderbergh moves very quickly, and sometimes people can really be like pop in a Soderbergh.

• 2:06:29Griffin Newman?

  Why is he not like tending to me? The thing I've always heard about the Coens is that they just don't want to get into the psychology of it. It's very objective based, but they know what they want, they love collaboration.

• 2:06:40David Sims?

  But if I go up to them and I'm like, and why am I robbing this bank? They would be like, shh.

• 2:06:43Speaker 05

  That's not, yeah.

• 2:06:44Griffin Newman?

  Because you need the money. Like, that's what they would say, you know?

• 2:06:47Speaker 05

  That's very Mamet, that's very like, just say the lines.

• 2:06:51Griffin Newman?

  They won't let you fuck up, like, they won't let you drown, and they will take the time to get it right if needed.

• 2:06:56Speaker 04

  And that's the difference, it's like, there's not, there are very few bad performance, if any, in-

• 2:07:01Griffin Newman?

  Not really.

• 2:07:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:07:02Speaker 05

  Well, that's a triumph of casting, and their scripts are incredible. I was at, I heard Rogan on the Lebowski. I was at that, uh, reading of Lebowski, the library. No, I was in the audience. And what blew my mind when watching it, because I know that movie so well, was how much of the ums and ahs, how much of the, the, the unique speech patterns for everybody were in the writing, they weren't, the actors hadn't brought that cadence or those things to it, it was all-

• 2:07:34Speaker 04

  All there. That blew me away.

• 2:07:36Griffin Newman?

  If you build up the career like this, you start to enter a magical phase that I think is very similar to Wes Anderson right now. Where it's like, everyone knows what the tone of a performance is in one of your movies, what they like out of actors, how the language should sound. It's easy to do the work at home.

• 2:07:53David Sims?

  A lot of security is like, I know you do a good job. Like if you're on a Wes Anderson set or whatever.

• 2:07:58Griffin Newman?

  But you also don't, the script is written so specifically and the like proof of concept exists out there and you go, I think I can figure out what they want and come correct.

• 2:08:07Speaker 04

  And I think the interesting difference with Wes Anderson, and maybe I'm making a generalization here, but he really does go, I'm gonna work with the same people because I don't even want to. I mean, there are new people every now and then, but it's like, it feels like I, these people will deliver this thing. Whereas the Coens feel like they are, there's a stable, but they are bringing in new people and you're, and they're killing it. Like I feel, you know, it's like they don't, they seem that they want to meet new talent.

• 2:08:32Griffin Newman?

  Well, and there's a greater variety in their tones. They will switch within a couple of different modes within versus the Wes Anderson making very different films that all have a very similar sensibility.

• 2:08:43David Sims?

  So you see this film, you've watched the first two segments and I feel like you're like, okay, I get it. This is Coen Brothers Western. Like little nuggets being thrown at me. And then you watch Meal Ticket. Cause I feel like Meal Ticket has to be the third where it's like a little bit of a like halt. This is not quite, it's not all gonna be bandits and Indians and cowboys and banks and you're right, like Meal Ticket is a crazy.

• 2:09:08Speaker 04

  Meal Ticket was my favorite. The first, the first time I saw Meal Ticket was my favorite because it was so, it's, it's so affecting. And I think it even hits harder after the first two. Like you're just like, oh, like the, the scene where he is having sex with like the prostitute and that, and he's just looking down the barrel of the camera like, oh my God, it's just like. Henry Melling, is that his name?

• 2:09:31Griffin Newman?

  Harry Melling.

• 2:09:31Speaker 04

  Harry Melling, I'm so sorry.

• 2:09:33David Sims?

  He said this completely transformed his career. Obviously, he's Dudley Dursley.

• 2:09:36Griffin Newman?

  But this is kind of his reclamation.

• 2:09:37Speaker 04

  Yes, 100%.

• 2:09:38Speaker 05

  Absolutely incredible because the vast majority of this piece is only him reciting all of these incredible monologues.

• 2:09:49Griffin Newman?

  Without the use of most of his body, without his extremities.

• 2:09:52Speaker 05

  And it is just on him and there is no dialogue until almost the end, you know, and that I mean ancillary dialogue, any dialogue between him and Liam Neeson.

• 2:10:02Griffin Newman?

  But Simpson says like a combined 40 words in this thing, maximum. And I feel like Harry Melling does not have a single line offstage.

• 2:10:10David Sims?

  Communicate unless he's doing the poetry.

• 2:10:12Speaker 04

  He is, he is, he is the chicken.

• 2:10:13David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 2:10:14Speaker 04

  Like, I mean, he is not a human and, and, and that is so, and that's so interesting to me. It's like.

• 2:10:20David Sims?

  This is about podcasts having to pivot to video, right?

• 2:10:23Griffin Newman?

  That's what it's about, right?

• 2:10:24David Sims?

  That's what the chicken is.

• 2:10:25Speaker 05

  It is.

• 2:10:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, the comedic concept that one, one time is an occurrence, two times it's coincidence, three times it's a pattern, right? It's, this is to your point, David, where they're starting to train you to understand, oh, there is a through line. All of these stories are going to come back to the same notion of how we negotiate death, right? And that Franco is this guy who in my, my reading is, he thinks he's above it. He starts to think that he's magical, that nothing can get to him, right?

• 2:10:52David Sims?

  Maybe I'm invincible.

• 2:10:53Griffin Newman?

  And he has this final moment where he looks at the young girl in the crowd and he's not even concerned about the noose around his neck.

• 2:10:58Speaker 04

  There's a pretty girl.

• 2:10:59Griffin Newman?

  Because he's basically, as James Franco was want to do when he sees a young woman in a crowd. He's basically thinking like, oh, it'd be great when I go flirt with that woman in like half an hour when I'm down from here.

• 2:11:10David Sims?

  I'm gonna, the, the noose will break and I'll make a run for it.

• 2:11:13Griffin Newman?

  He's not like imagining, wouldn't it be great if I was there with her? He's thinking, I will be there.

• 2:11:18Speaker 04

  Well, he's there to say, death is inescapable. And if you think you got away with it, you didn't.

• 2:11:25Griffin Newman?

  So watching that segment, you don't really know what it's about. And the second it ends with his death and then like hard out, that's where they're teaching you, oh, this is going to come for everyone in this segment in some way or another.

• 2:11:36Speaker 04

  Well, then what is the difference that you see between the first and second, like approach to death? Because obviously Buster Scruggs feels invincible.

• 2:11:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:45Speaker 04

  He feels like death is never going to come for him. He is never.

• 2:11:48Griffin Newman?

  He's not even thinking about it.

• 2:11:49Speaker 04

  No, he is a showman and he is, you know, almost showboating around it and that's what gets him killed. Then the second one, it's like. I guess maybe the difference is that the first person feels like he's unkillable. The second one feels like he can escape death.

• 2:12:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:01Speaker 04

  And the third one is it's inevitable.

• 2:12:04Griffin Newman?

  Well, and the third one, you're watching it and you're like, what does this have to do with the other two outside of like the brutality of this time?

• 2:12:11Speaker 05

  Well, I think there's something about how in the first, in each of the first two, you could argue death is coming for them because they are engaged in life and death events. They are, they are seeking out or are part of things that lead to people's deaths. Melling is a true innocent.

• 2:12:32Griffin Newman?

  He is seemingly also out of danger.

• 2:12:35Speaker 05

  Right? So it even comes for the innocent.

• 2:12:37Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:12:38Speaker 05

  The cruelty of this world is that even the innocent, even the, the artists, even the soft are gonna be.

• 2:12:45Speaker 04

  Melling is movie theaters and the chicken is Netflix.

• 2:12:48David Sims?

  Yeah, sure. And that is, that is true. And Sarandos does have the chicken in his office.

• 2:12:52Griffin Newman?

  I know. My, my reading is that this is, what were you?

• 2:12:54David Sims?

  No, no, I have a reading too, but what's your reading?

• 2:12:56Griffin Newman?

  That this is them commenting on the kind of level of disdain that show business has for the creators.

• 2:13:01Speaker 04

  I agree.

• 2:13:02David Sims?

  Little bit of that.

• 2:13:02Speaker 04

  A hundred percent.

• 2:13:03Griffin Newman?

  They view them as freaks and their job is to like build an industry around their bizarre.

• 2:13:09Speaker 04

  And also grab the next thing that, like grab the next thing. There's no loyalty to the thing.

• 2:13:13Griffin Newman?

  The second you don't have an audience.

• 2:13:15Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:13:15Griffin Newman?

  You are garbage to me.

• 2:13:16David Sims?

  But Neeson is sympathetic, partly because it's Liam Neeson is a great actor, like, but he could do so much with his face or whatever, but like, he does feel bad.

• 2:13:25Griffin Newman?

  But to my point.

• 2:13:25David Sims?

  He tosses someone in the river.

• 2:13:27Griffin Newman?

  And to what you were saying, right? Of like, he seems safe. This is not a guy who exists in a world of danger, right? He has been rescued. One of the few full lines that Neeson has is when he's going to the can, the crowd with the can, collecting money. And he's patting himself on the back for like, isn't it such a sad story? Look at him. I found him in the street like this. No arms and legs. I saved him. Like he's giving himself the honor of, look at me, the hero who discovered the nobility of this man with a poet's heart and the ability to speak to the masses.

• 2:13:56Speaker 04

  But that's a studio head.

• 2:13:57Griffin Newman?

  Totally. And then the second he stops drawing a crowd, it's like, this guy's fucking garbage.

• 2:14:01Speaker 05

  Well, it's, yes, it's somebody who used to care about putting art out and is now concerned. That's

• 2:14:06Griffin Newman?

  He wants the prestige of standing next to higher.

• 2:14:09David Sims?

  Beyond everyone's studios takes and you guys definitely are not annoyed at Hollywood at all in any way.

• 2:14:14Speaker 05

  Everything in Hollywood is going according to plan.

• 2:14:17David Sims?

  A plus A okay.

• 2:14:18Speaker 05

  Our careers are going perfectly and exactly how we thought they would play out.

• 2:14:23David Sims?

  It's also like in these, these ideas of the West is this like, you know, the, you know,

• 2:14:29David Sims?

  white, American, European culture is encroaching on this like wild land, right? Where they're like, listen, gathered, you know, peasants, you know, to the Shakespeare and Percy, but you know, and like, I love those reaction shots of like the old people going, just like, they don't know what he's saying, right? Like it's just, but these like words are so interesting. And like, you know, then there's the brutality, like, yeah, but at the end of the day, they're gonna like their chicken more. So like, you know, there's only so much civilization coming.

• 2:14:58Speaker 05

  Remember when Brian Cox and the actors all came to Deadwood?

• 2:15:02David Sims?

  I do, of course.

• 2:15:03Speaker 05

  I love that sequence of, of episode.

• 2:15:05David Sims?

  It is amazing because you're watching Deadwood, knowing season three is the last season. David Milch doesn't know that or whatever, you know, like,

• 2:15:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:15:13David Sims?

  And, and you know, like with about four episodes to go, suddenly it's about Brian Cox like ordering ham. And you're like, this is one episode, right? And it's like, no, this is like three episodes. Anyway.

• 2:15:22Speaker 04

  But I, but I guess maybe in a broader sense, it's just about how new takes over like a mom and pop, a mom and pop store gets taken over by a target, right? Like, I mean, and it's, and it's about culture evolving. Somebody figures out, oh, this is a simpler way, an easier way.

• 2:15:41Speaker 05

  Good TV being replaced by reality TV. And that's why we went on strike in 2007.

• 2:15:47Speaker 04

  We got everything we needed, but I mean, but I do think that like, yes, we are looking at it through the lens of like directors and actors. But I also think that that is how society runs too. The newer, flashier thing will always overtake.

• 2:16:00Griffin Newman?

  I think there are a couple of other things going on. I mean, we, you know, you were saying that they went to Netflix and they went to Anna Purna because they said, what studio is going to greenlight this? But you look at some of the quotes they have from talking about setting up this film and beyond like, well, we're doing something weird and unconventional. So we have to go to an Unconventional place. They were already saying, it does feel like a kind of grown up movie has died. It does feel like the industry has shifted. It does feel like it's harder to sell anything that isn't Marvel.

• 2:16:25David Sims?

  Of course.

• 2:16:26Griffin Newman?

  And these are guys who have been able to do basically.

• 2:16:27David Sims?

  They've been doing that for 30 years.

• 2:16:29Griffin Newman?

  Exactly what they want for decades. And even while still getting things made, they're like, we can feel it moving. We can feel it moving past us. Maybe we're Harry Melling and the crowd's starting to thin out. We've not been thrown over the bridge yet, but you can see it going down. And it's always going to come to the brass tacks of, does it cost less to feed a chicken than a guy? Right? Like, that's what's so brutal about this segment is you really see that the calculation in Liam Neeson's mind is like, I gotta feed him with the spoon. I gotta think about his feelings.

• 2:17:02David Sims?

  This chicken, you just throw some corn at it.

• 2:17:04Speaker 04

  I gotta hold him. I gotta hold him while he shits and pisses.

• 2:17:08Griffin Newman?

  Right. It's the bag of feed is the thing that changes it for him where he's just like, it's just this.

• 2:17:13Speaker 04

  Well, I think that the image of from behind him with the birdcage, looking out into the thing, it's like, it's, it's just, it's an easier, it's an easier life. And it's, it's a, and it, that's, he's living a hard life.

• 2:17:26Griffin Newman?

  Everyone's just trying to survive.

• 2:17:27Speaker 04

  That opening is just like, I'm putting down the thing. I'm putting down the hat. I'm doing this other thing. It just seems so hard. But I also wonder, and I don't know if I have an answer for this. Why was that guy so willing to sell a chicken? Like, like, you know, like.

• 2:17:41David Sims?

  Sure. Is this chicken gonna die in a year? I mean, it's a chicken.

• 2:17:44Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:17:44Speaker 05

  Like, yeah, it always felt to me like the chicken is a scam.

• 2:17:47David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:17:47Speaker 05

  Right. You know?

• 2:17:48David Sims?

  It does feel like, yeah, this chicken can't actually do much.

• 2:17:50Griffin Newman?

  And my reading is also that Neeson like wildly overpaid. That Neeson basically put his life savings for the chicken.

• 2:17:56Speaker 04

  Cause there was a part of me that felt like.

• 2:17:58Speaker 05

  It's a get rich quick scheme.

• 2:17:59Speaker 04

  There's a part of me, and I think I wanted this moment is like, that guy had, I mean, this is a, this is a full invention. That that guy had a little man underneath that cart to do the math.

• 2:18:10Griffin Newman?

  And he's not selling him the man.

• 2:18:11Speaker 04

  And he's not selling the man. Cause that's the scam, right?

• 2:18:14David Sims?

  Or he came with plants, audience plants, whatever.

• 2:18:17Griffin Newman?

  I think, I think the chicken isn't as much of a golden goose as he thinks it is, right?

• 2:18:22David Sims?

  It's a chicken. It's a griffin. It's not a goose. Okay, I'm sorry.

• 2:18:25Griffin Newman?

  I think the chicken's kind of a canard.

• 2:18:28Speaker 04

  As a kid, my, I grew up in New York.

• 2:18:30David Sims?

  And that is French for duck.

• 2:18:31Griffin Newman?

  Okay, but wait a second, let me try.

• 2:18:33Speaker 04

  Um, as a kid, I went with my dad to Chinatown all the time and I saw this. This is what I saw. It was the most exciting, fun thing to ever see. It was so cool. It was like a chicken that could do math. And they had a game, a tic tac toe game where you would play against a chicken. It was like, it was like a battery powered game. And it was like, and it was like, it was great.

• 2:18:52David Sims?

  Right. And obviously there was Letterman's super Patrick's.

• 2:18:55Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:18:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:18:55Griffin Newman?

  I, I think quite possibly the answer is.

• 2:18:57Speaker 04

  Now, it should have been Letterman taking his cabin boy character. Now that's a universal.

• 2:19:00David Sims?

  Letterman would have crushed in Buster Scruggs. They could have tossed him there.

• 2:19:03Speaker 04

  I, I think Letterman in that section might have been fantastic. Want to buy a monkey?

• 2:19:10Griffin Newman?

  Uh, his cabin boy character would fit perfectly in this film. I think part of what's going on, even if it's not like a little man, it's in the building of the cart or it's in the way he trains the chicken. I think this guy, Liam Neeson's coming up to him, offering to pay more and more money. And he's like, the chicken's not the thing. There's some secret that he's not selling to Liam Neeson. And even if he is telling him the secret, he's like, I can replace the chicken.

• 2:19:35Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:19:35Griffin Newman?

  The chicken's not the thing. If I want to still do the chicken act.

• 2:19:39Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:19:39Griffin Newman?

  I go to a farm, I get a new chicken.

• 2:19:41Speaker 04

  He didn't sell him the cart.

• 2:19:42Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:19:42Speaker 04

  He sold, and the, the cart, I mean, it, it, I guess it's buyer beware too. I mean, but I guess, but you don't see the buyer beware part. You just see the, the shiny new.

• 2:19:52Griffin Newman?

  You just see how quickly he makes the, the calculation.

• 2:19:54David Sims?

  You also don't see him kill Harry Melling. You just infer.

• 2:19:57Speaker 04

  But that drop, that, that sound effect, that plonk is brutal.

• 2:20:01David Sims?

  It's tough.

• 2:20:01Griffin Newman?

  And I also, I think to what you were saying, David, there's this notion of, oh my God, they're bringing high art to the people. Right? Here's a sophisticated show and this audience sits rapt attention, you know, giving him ultimate respect and then applauding. But the subtext is they're here to see the freak. Right? Like the fact that he's such a good dramatic orator is the party trick. It's no different than a chicken being able to do math. The actual thing that's interesting is the creature on stage.

• 2:20:32Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:20:33Griffin Newman?

  And that's just the dressing on top of it. And the second, like the material isn't working.

• 2:20:38Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:20:38Griffin Newman?

  The novelty of the guy is out the window and the guy has no value.

• 2:20:41Speaker 04

  But I also, but I think I would argue that. What's interesting is I may not have understood what that guy said, and I may not have even gotten the point, but it left me thinking and that was interesting and that was cool. And maybe part of that is the body, but the other thing is irrefutable. I saw an animal do math.

• 2:21:01Griffin Newman?

  Right, right.

• 2:21:02Speaker 04

  I know what I saw and that is like, again, it's like,

• 2:21:05David Sims?

  It's like, I can tell you what I saw, where the other one is like,

• 2:21:09Griffin Newman?

  Quicker dopamine hit.

• 2:21:10Speaker 04

  I felt something. I don't know how I felt about it and I can't tell you it's, it is, it's art. It's a difference of art and yeah.

• 2:21:17Griffin Newman?

  It's also the difference that this isn't being framed as like a sideshow act, right? Like there are guys like Johnny Eck who's in like Freaks, who was the famous half man who lacked a lower body.

• 2:21:27Speaker 04

  Right. He's not showing off his, he's showing off his acting skills.

• 2:21:30Griffin Newman?

  There were so many successful performers of this time who were born with like different, like physical issues, right? Who then made their act, watch me roll a cigarette with my teeth, you know? Watch me do this without legs and he's not doing that. The fact that he is armless and legless is irrelevant to the material of what he's doing. And yet the harsh reality is they would not be bothering to pay attention to you if you didn't look like this.

• 2:21:54Speaker 04

  Well, yeah, and I also feel like they make a really cool choice of not making him like, the minute he gets off stage, ah, you motherfucker, you know, it's like,

• 2:22:01David Sims?

  Yeah, they don't do the baby here.

• 2:22:02Speaker 04

  Right, yeah.

• 2:22:03Speaker 05

  You don't, you just don't hear him.

• 2:22:04Griffin Newman?

  He doesn't talk.

• 2:22:05Speaker 05

  He doesn't talk.

• 2:22:06David Sims?

  Except he's like a parent who like you put the sheet over the cage.

• 2:22:10Speaker 04

  But you see his, but you see his face and you know that, that's why I think the emotion is.

• 2:22:15David Sims?

  It's why, it's why that guy, Harry Melling is in a lot of stuff now. Like looking at his face, you're just like, this is incredible actor.

• 2:22:22Griffin Newman?

  There was a sadness to his existence and his inability to connect. And when he is on stage, he feels like a person. He is speaking some truth for him and the idea that people are paying attention makes him feel like he is valid.

• 2:22:34Speaker 04

  And I actually think, To your point, they might come because he has no, you know, he has this odd body, but that goes out the window.

• 2:22:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:42Speaker 04

  Once it starts. And I think that that's actually a really beautiful thing, too. It's like, oh, I'm just caught up in.

• 2:22:46David Sims?

  Yeah, they do. They are moved by him.

• 2:22:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:22:49Griffin Newman?

  It's also such a funny use of Neeson, who they have never worked with before.

• 2:22:54David Sims?

  No.

• 2:22:54Griffin Newman?

  Right? And it's just like stripping down everything about Liam Neeson as a movie star culturally, which especially in the late 2010s is like, now you've had this whole fucking like Euro thriller.

• 2:23:05Speaker 04

  Taken, man, yeah.

• 2:23:06Griffin Newman?

  And it's like, you're taking away that, you're taking away like dramatic actor Oscar Schindler. You're just like, this guy looks really strange and has a very intense voice. Liam Neeson is just a physical presence and a vocal presence that is one of one. And what if you put that in entirely different context? And you're just like, there's a lot going on in this guy.

• 2:23:25Speaker 04

  Well, it's also, he does not, and in a way that Liam Neeson could feel so imposing and so threatening, and he doesn't.

• 2:23:32Griffin Newman?

  He feels small.

• 2:23:33Speaker 04

  And even when he's measuring the, the depth of the water with the rock, you don't feel like there is cruelty or malice.

• 2:23:41Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:23:42Speaker 04

  You feel like he is sad. He is.

• 2:23:45David Sims?

  He communicates.

• 2:23:46Speaker 04

  Sad that he, yes, he's doing an incredible job.

• 2:23:49Griffin Newman?

  And he thinks it's a mercy killing. Like, that's part of the tragedy and like the brutality of this movie, you know, and in his exploration of death as a concept, is that he's doing the math of if he can't bring an audience anymore, then he should be dead, right? And it's not as a, as a judgment. It speaks to, to a certain extent that he has always viewed him as a little less than human, but he thinks it is an act of sympathy.

• 2:24:14Speaker 04

  I.

• 2:24:14Griffin Newman?

  I'll put you out of your suffering.

• 2:24:15Speaker 04

  I also think that what I get, I go back to the opening. I think the openings of all these are really interesting because you open with putting on the thing, putting, you know, he's setting up the, like, it's hard. And it's like, it's like he is a, yes, he's in show business, but he's doing manual labor. Like he, and this is, he is, I think, beaten down by it's every night, a different town, everything. It's like, and he's doing actually more work to.

• 2:24:44Speaker 04

  To put it on the podcast. Put on, yeah, to put it.

• 2:24:46Griffin Newman?

  He's setting up the cameras, he's editing clips.

• 2:24:49Speaker 04

  Right, and it's like, and it's like, and it's, and wouldn't it be easier? Wouldn't it just, my life be better? And it's like, and I think that that's what you see, like, you're not seeing him on the day that he found him. You're not seeing on the, like, you, this is, what, seven years in? Whatever it is, it's like, and you feel those years. It's just never gonna change, it's never getting better. And his life is empty and alone, and it's, I don't know, I think it's a very, like, they're both sympathetic characters.

• 2:25:13Griffin Newman?

  And I also love that it's not like, packed house, and then one night, it's empty, and he goes for the chicken. That you see a real kind of durational, the crowd tapering off, and they're not coming back. And you see like, four or five performances that are all losing energy, right? This guy's like, sticking it out.

• 2:25:35David Sims?

  Alco Canyon is the next one.

• 2:25:36Griffin Newman?

  Yes, it's based-

• 2:25:37David Sims?

  We have to talk about that one.

• 2:25:38Griffin Newman?

  On a Jack London story?

• 2:25:39David Sims?

  It is, I don't, I don't know much about it, apart from that it's a Jack London story, of course, that's, sorry.

• 2:25:44Speaker 04

  Tom Waits.

• 2:25:45David Sims?

  Oh, Tom Waits one, which is, Jack London's the guy who wrote White Fang and all that, all those boys' adventures.

• 2:25:50Speaker 04

  And this is, this is like a silent short, this is as close to a silent short as I think you can get.

• 2:25:56Griffin Newman?

  Well, they're two great words that get repeated.

• 2:25:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:25:58Speaker 05

  Mr. Pocken.

• 2:25:59David Sims?

  But also, does have the Tim Robinson thing, not to keep it, of like, it's so beautiful, it's so quiet, and then when he gets shot, he's like, you motherfucker! He won't stop saying, you suck!

• 2:26:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:11David Sims?

  Why'd you do that?

• 2:26:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:26:12Speaker 05

  You shot me in the back!

• 2:26:13David Sims?

  I did all this work, like, he's just saying, we're like, we know, we know, we watched you do it, you know? But he's like, it really sucked, you shot me in the back!

• 2:26:20Griffin Newman?

  Well, also, this is like, the most innately-

• 2:26:22David Sims?

  It didn't hit nothing important!

• 2:26:24Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 2:26:25David Sims?

  Ben, you wanna speak?

• 2:26:26Speaker 05

  It went right through, hit nothing but guts.

• 2:26:30Speaker 02

  I think Tom Waits is perfect.

• 2:26:33Speaker 04

  Agreed.

• 2:26:34Speaker 02

  He's perfect.

• 2:26:34David Sims?

  I, I, I-

• 2:26:35Griffin Newman?

  Another guy you can't believe that hadn't worked with.

• 2:26:37Speaker 04

  I was gonna say, how's he never been in a Coen Brothers?

• 2:26:40David Sims?

  Were they writing it, I think, I wonder, like, thinking of him the entire time? Yeah, I would love to know.

• 2:26:45Speaker 02

  I would think so, especially even just the choice of the song to kick off the segment feels so just part of his repertoire.

• 2:26:53Speaker 04

  And that it, that it booked- As he is leaving through the exact same way that he came, he's singing the same song again, which I thought was beautiful.

• 2:27:01David Sims?

  Now, this is their first one they shot on digital. I didn't mention this and

• 2:27:05Speaker 04

  After Roger Deacon said he would never shoot on digital.

• 2:27:07David Sims?

  Right. Well, it's not Deacons. It's Bruno Del Banel.

• 2:27:10Speaker 04

  Interesting. I didn't notice that.

• 2:27:11David Sims?

  I do feel like this is like, obviously the most like them being like the magnificence, right? Like, you know, it's so beautiful and lush.

• 2:27:19Griffin Newman?

  The crystal clarity of

• 2:27:20David Sims?

  Right. The animals and all that. Right. And like they're messing with the style in each segment. And this is the like, the true, just like the majesty of the West. And it's like, but of course, at the end of the day, it's a weird little Santa Claus just trying to dig rocks out of the ground.

• 2:27:35Speaker 04

  Do you think that there's a connection between like giving a voice to the legless guy from the last, you know, like in this one, because it's sort of like, he is killed for, you know, he's like, he's shot in the back. Like there's that thing like you like, how could you do this? It's like, it's you, you hear the voice of the aggrieved in that moment. And I feel like you don't get to hear that in the one before.

• 2:27:58Speaker 02

  You measly skunk.

• 2:27:59Griffin Newman?

  Well, this is the great thing about the segment is that he doesn't die. That after watching

• 2:28:03David Sims?

  It is the one optimistic one.

• 2:28:05Griffin Newman?

  In a row.

• 2:28:06David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:28:07Griffin Newman?

  You're like, I get it. All of these are people marching towards their inevitable death. And because of the tension that is built from just how methodical it is, how slow it is, the process of the finding it, the thing with the owl, which starts to feel supernatural, you know, or at least kind of like spiritual in a way. You're just like, how is this guy going to fucking get it? But you're watching it and you like this guy so fucking much.

• 2:28:28Speaker 04

  And he's cooking the egg with the fish.

• 2:28:30David Sims?

  Hard. Right. And he only takes one egg.

• 2:28:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, right.

• 2:28:32David Sims?

  He could get greedy, but he's like, I'll just take one.

• 2:28:34Speaker 02

  He's like, how, how much can an owl count?

• 2:28:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:28:37David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 2:28:37Griffin Newman?

  But this thing feels so lush and romantic and he is so sympathetic that you're just like, oh, Jesus Christ.

• 2:28:45Speaker 02

  And he's good at it.

• 2:28:46Griffin Newman?

  When's the axe gonna fall on his head? And I hate it. And there's this tension.

• 2:28:49Speaker 04

  I love the process of digging each exploratory hole. Oh, less, less, less. Oh, let me go the other way. More, more, more. Now less, less. Okay.

• 2:28:57Speaker 02

  He's got the markers.

• 2:28:58Speaker 04

  The vein is somewhere up here.

• 2:28:59Griffin Newman?

  The counting of the like three.

• 2:29:01Speaker 04

  Love it.

• 2:29:02Griffin Newman?

  Shake new spot four.

• 2:29:03Speaker 04

  It reminded me of Many ways of the opening of There Will Be Blood in the sense of like

• 2:29:08Speaker 05

  Great.

• 2:29:08Speaker 04

  Methodical there and like, you know, obviously that character goes downhill, but it's like, but you know, with rich but being coming rich, but uh, this character, I feel like he will not stop, shooting will not stop. Like he will get his thing and that's a, that's the same thing when he breaks his leg in the opening of There Will Be Blood. How long was that challenge for? How far was that?

• 2:29:27Griffin Newman?

  But for that, you're like, this is what makes a man evil. Like this is the death of his soul. This is a guy who perhaps had no morality to begin with, and then he forged in the darkness of this like pit to come out and do whatever he needs to survive. And then versus this story, which is like, what if you start with like an old Walter Brennan style coot? Who's usually just the butt of the joke and the character who maybe gets a little moment of like more emotion, but if you really got to live with this guy and his process, it's hard not to start caring about him, especially as something of an innocent versus these other stories.

• 2:30:00Speaker 04

  Who's working so hard?

• 2:30:02Griffin Newman?

  Working so hard and you're like, God, what a waste when someone's gonna come and steal all his fucking gold. You know that's what's gonna happen and the satisfaction.

• 2:30:09Speaker 04

  I thought it was crazy when he's digging those holes and he keeps finding jeans.

• 2:30:14Speaker 05

  It was crazy. Yeah.

• 2:30:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:30:16Speaker 02

  I know. These are even more valuable than the gold.

• 2:30:19David Sims?

  For thousands.

• 2:30:22Speaker 02

  Congratulations, Y O U.

• 2:30:29David Sims?

  Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I don't know what to say about this one, except that it's just truly delightful.

• 2:30:34Speaker 04

  And I think it's like, but I think this is what the benefit, the beauty of this movie is there are some that are very slight. And I think that they, they do something that's interesting. It's like Walter Brennan, here's a twist on Walter Brennan. Here's a very simple, you know, what we, a subverting of expectation in two ways, character and your ending. And then boom, and we're fine and we just move on. It's, it's, it's like the James Franco one. It's like.

• 2:30:55David Sims?

  The Franco one's similar. It's like, right. What if you did like a current St. Alcic Bridge, but without the twist?

• 2:31:00Griffin Newman?

  Well, I think the other thing going on in this short is him putting back two of the three eggs, right?

• 2:31:06David Sims?

  Yes, right.

• 2:31:07Griffin Newman?

  In the words of our great American poet Seth MacFarlane, there are a million ways to die in the West, right?

• 2:31:12David Sims?

  Okay.

• 2:31:13Griffin Newman?

  And as much as there is.

• 2:31:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, true.

• 2:31:15Griffin Newman?

  You know.

• 2:31:15Speaker 04

  Liam Neeson in that as well.

• 2:31:16David Sims?

  But it's also kind of in the words of one of our great uh, uh, Na'vi poets named Thierry, kind of educating Sully on like, only take what you need.

• 2:31:23Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:31:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:31:24David Sims?

  You know what I mean? Like.

• 2:31:25Griffin Newman?

  Exactly.

• 2:31:25Speaker 04

  Is that fire and ash? We'll see, we'll see.

• 2:31:28Griffin Newman?

  That because of the way they filmed the owl, right?

• 2:31:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:31:30Griffin Newman?

  You're like, oh, this is going to be a story about a man who is cursed for his greed.

• 2:31:35Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:31:35Griffin Newman?

  Right? That the owl is going to place some kind of curse upon him. But these are like people trying to survive. They make terrible decisions, uncharismatic decisions. But it's part of the danger and the lawlessness of this time. That you get the sense if he had grabbed three eggs because he, why not? I'm hungry. The owl would have like spited him and smited him.

• 2:31:57Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:31:58Griffin Newman?

  But the generosity of, I get it. You just need to survive. As long as you're only eating one of my babies.

• 2:32:05Speaker 04

  Well, then.

• 2:32:06Griffin Newman?

  I'm looking out for you.

• 2:32:07Speaker 04

  And I think that there's also a lot of that, like that care. Like it's the same thing that happens with Franco. With the Native American like on the horse, like it comes up to him. It's like there's, there is sympathy or there is.

• 2:32:19Griffin Newman?

  Connection.

• 2:32:19Speaker 04

  Connection, right?

• 2:32:20Speaker 02

  It's a respect for life.

• 2:32:22Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:32:22Griffin Newman?

  And also this is the guy who's like in touch with nature, in touch with the land, in touch with the world, you know? It like has some inner sense of joy. And the owl was like, as long as you're not taking more than you need. I accept that this is just the give and take of life.

• 2:32:36Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:32:37Griffin Newman?

  And then it feels like that is almost supernaturally what makes the bullet go through him. Which allows him to like get, you know?

• 2:32:45Speaker 04

  And everybody who dies so far is taking liberties, right? Like our first character, everyone is taking a little bit more than they need to. If it's talking to the camera in the first one, if it's, you know, committed, like it's like, they're not learning their lesson. They are continually. Well, what else can I get?

• 2:32:59Griffin Newman?

  And the joy he gets from killing this young guy in revenge is, as you're saying, David, like a principled, like, I worked this hard and you're just gonna take it from me? Like, that's not how this works.

• 2:33:10David Sims?

  Just him seeing the movement, the shadow movement on the ground in front of him on the hole. And knowing there's someone there and he's shot before he even looks is great.

• 2:33:20Speaker 04

  I love that image too, how it sure gets more bloody too. Like when you're above it, it's a beautiful shot.

• 2:33:24David Sims?

  I'm old, but you're older.

• 2:33:27Griffin Newman?

  And you're just so happy when he like rides off singing and you're like, oh my God, he makes it out of this alive.

• 2:33:32Speaker 02

  But he doesn't ride off.

• 2:33:33Griffin Newman?

  I'm sorry.

• 2:33:34Speaker 02

  He drags his donkey. I almost, I just love that detail too about the character.

• 2:33:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:39Speaker 02

  Right, right. Workman like, workman like.

• 2:33:41Speaker 04

  Another like, I'm not leaving anything behind. It's like, you know, it's like, it's, it.

• 2:33:45Griffin Newman?

  I'm thoughtful.

• 2:33:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:33:46David Sims?

  He's committed to doing it.

• 2:33:48Speaker 05

  Old way, audio only, no video.

• 2:33:51Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 2:33:51Speaker 05

  No video, just audio like the medium was intended.

• 2:33:56Griffin Newman?

  Now, we've broken the pattern, right? So it's like, this is the first segment in which arguably our central character doesn't die at the end.

• 2:34:04David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:34:04Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:34:05Griffin Newman?

  So then when you enter the Zoe Kazan segment.

• 2:34:07David Sims?

  Get ready for a hammer blow, but, but, but maybe you don't know that.

• 2:34:10Griffin Newman?

  That for me is like the value of this and why it does need to be longer because it's like fucking with your whole, even like your internal rhythms of like, this one feels like it's going deeper than the other one.

• 2:34:20Speaker 05

  I also misremembered this one too, as I was watching, because I thought that I remembered her brother dying. And then I was like, then, and the guy, the wagon train guy, um, falling in love with her. And I had remembered it as him dying as well.

• 2:34:34David Sims?

  What?

• 2:34:35Speaker 05

  And that everybody around her starts to fall and it wasn't that. And I was once again, like heartbroken at the end.

• 2:34:41Griffin Newman?

  And you end with the final shot. He is so good in that.

• 2:34:45David Sims?

  He is, he's fantastic.

• 2:34:46Griffin Newman?

  Uh, but no, you end with the final shot of just seeing, uh, what's his name, Mr. Andrews?

• 2:34:50Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:34:51Griffin Newman?

  Riding off in the distance to tell him. Mr. Arthur.

• 2:34:54Speaker 05

  What am I gonna tell Bill Knapp?

• 2:34:56Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:34:56Speaker 05

  What the, what the line says.

• 2:34:58Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Um, I, I just think it's so good in the way, like the movie has trained you to feel like you understand how these stories are gonna go. And then this upends it by being like, these are the most human characters you have seen yet. We're really investing in their emotional dynamic. There is like a sensitivity and a subtlety and a presence to this. It is the least showy cinematically. It feels like when they are in conversation, it is like sustained shot, reverse shot mediums where he is like, they are letting the actors control the scenes.

• 2:35:30Speaker 04

  I will also say that these last two pieces are heavily dialogue driven, right?

• 2:35:36David Sims?

  And it. Right, right. Versus maybe the, the tranquility of the, the fourth one.

• 2:35:39Speaker 04

  And, and you know, like all, I mean, throughout, I mean, throughout they're, they're, they're very like, I mean, yes. And like, while that performer is doing these monologues, it's not like. It's not, it's not a

• 2:35:49Griffin Newman?

  Characters aren't talking to each other.

• 2:35:50Speaker 04

  Talking to each other, right?

• 2:35:51Griffin Newman?

  Right. Their monologues happening. Yeah.

• 2:35:53Speaker 04

  And I feel like that opening sequence is something like it felt like out of A Serious Man or something like that.

• 2:35:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, the dinner table.

• 2:35:59Speaker 04

  It's quick and it's, and it's this fight and you're in the, and it's like, oh wow, they really like that. I love that opening. I'm like, whoa, what is this?

• 2:36:06Speaker 05

  But it's also so weird. There's like, they're doing all the Western stuff, but you're like, oh wait, is this Johnny Guitar? Is this like a really strange lens to do?

• 2:36:18Griffin Newman?

  What are they riffing on?

• 2:36:18Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:36:19Griffin Newman?

  You're like, there's a wagon train. There's this notion of an arranged marriage. There's the future out west. Like, what is this?

• 2:36:24Speaker 05

  Be untrustworthy, brother. The, you know, what's, you know?

• 2:36:27Speaker 04

  Like, who is gonna screw over who? Like, who's lying?

• 2:36:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. There's a sort of sense of misdirect of you're trying to get ahead of them and go like, what is this segment? And it takes so long to reveal itself. And because Tom Waits walks off scot-free, and because the brother dies early in this, even if you've accepted these are all about death, you go, maybe it's about grieving.

• 2:36:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:36:51Griffin Newman?

  And maybe it's about living in the wake of a death of someone close. You are lulled into a sense of security of this is not going to just be a tragic rug pull of this romance ending.

• 2:37:02Speaker 04

  How death can maybe actually create new life, because that's what you're kind of seeing is like, we're gonna get married, we're gonna stay here from the Homestead Act, we're gonna, and it will be, we'll actually build something better than even going to the, the other, the, the new frontier.

• 2:37:14Griffin Newman?

  And going on longer and it's living more with these characters, it grows past feeling like a sketch, right? It starts to feel like they're asking me to invest real emotional weight into this, so clearly they wouldn't bite my hand.

• 2:37:28Speaker 05

  Bite your hand, speaking of, like, one of my favorite things in this one is how disliked by everyone the dog is. Like, how to go against the grain of everything else, which is, the dog is the villain? You know, like, that she even is like, that's not my dog.

• 2:37:45Griffin Newman?

  You could argue.

• 2:37:46Speaker 05

  If everybody's mad at the dog, it's not me.

• 2:37:48Griffin Newman?

  You could argue in a long-tail way, the dog is the most responsible for her death.

• 2:37:52Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 2:37:52Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:37:53Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:37:53Griffin Newman?

  She doesn't go off if the dog doesn't.

• 2:37:56Speaker 04

  She's not walking at the prairie dogs or whatever.

• 2:37:58Griffin Newman?

  But I also. Like, if he kills the dog successfully?

• 2:38:00Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 2:38:01Speaker 05

  Happy, happy, happy ending.

• 2:38:02Griffin Newman?

  They're married.

• 2:38:03Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:38:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:38:04Speaker 04

  Well, what I also love about it is the way that they seed. The punchline, right? Or the setup is really kind of beautifully hidden. It's like, okay, look, if this goes down like this, you like, you know, you're not, you hear it and it sounds very heroic, but you're, you don't like, it's like, when you realize that they're like, oh, right. It like, it really is a magic trick ending because it tells you what's, what's happening. It's like, if I go down, you kill yourself.

• 2:38:31Griffin Newman?

  But, but his line at the end is like, poor girl. She didn't know she could have made it.

• 2:38:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:38:37Griffin Newman?

  You know that it's like this misinterpretation of a second.

• 2:38:40Speaker 04

  Of a moment. Yeah.

• 2:38:41Griffin Newman?

  Of a moment, of a movement, of a sound.

• 2:38:44Speaker 04

  But he made her so afraid and gave her the, what to do. And she-

• 2:38:48Griffin Newman?

  Told her the story of the future.

• 2:38:49Speaker 04

  She just followed through.

• 2:38:50Griffin Newman?

  Right. And this was the, the better of two bad options. And it's like, if he had sat up a second earlier.

• 2:38:57Speaker 04

  Well, that's it.

• 2:38:57Griffin Newman?

  If he had made a noise.

• 2:38:59Speaker 04

  But you, but here's my thought about it too. She has just gone through death, right? And she, and I think that she's quick. Like she's not, maybe if she didn't go through death, she wouldn't, she would have waited a moment more, but like, she's like, okay, boom. I'm like that she made that choice instantly. And I don't know if that's about grief. I don't know what that, if that's about grief, but I have to imagine that that quickness of the choice feels like she's been there, she knows, and she's-

• 2:39:26Griffin Newman?

  Here's what I think it's about. I think this segment is about two characters, very, very tentatively, and with great doubt, considering, has the world reached a state of modernity where we could live a life based on happiness first? And the fact that it's all about, you have to get in this wagon and follow your shitty dumb brother because he might have a prospect of a man for you to marry because maybe you're seen as a little plain and a little timid. No one wants to marry you and that's your ultimate value as a woman, right? There's no notion of marrying for love, marrying for happiness.

• 2:40:02Speaker 04

  No, it's like you're making it to argue. You're gonna have to survive. Like we're planting footholds out here, baby. Yeah.

• 2:40:07Griffin Newman?

  I think she plays a beautiful balance of, she's not treating this as she's walking towards her death sentence. It is what it is. I guess I maybe have to marry my brother's friend, but maybe he's not even that interested in me. And maybe there's not a guy there, whatever. Right?

• 2:40:20Speaker 04

  Yeah. And she doesn't play, and I was thinking about this too. She doesn't play it- Totally either way, like I think a lot of times you see like true, or you see like so tentative, so awkwardly like, oh, no one will like, this is a unlikable thing. She's just kind of

• 2:40:36Griffin Newman?

  Is what it is.

• 2:40:36Speaker 04

  Vanilla, like, that's it. You know, it's like,

• 2:40:39David Sims?

  She's nice.

• 2:40:40Speaker 04

  Nice.

• 2:40:40Griffin Newman?

  In their odd backwards courtship, which is sort of like, presented as a marriage of convenience, you know, an arrangement that this is a business proposal. This is a survival mechanism, whatever. They are both refusing to really let themselves accept that maybe this is what they emotionally want. All of their conversations keep happening in non-emotional terms while there is clearly an emotional connection happening. Where the reason she hesitates when he proposes it to her is I think what she plays very well is the notion of, I actually have caught feelings for this guy. And him presenting it as, well, I'll just do this because it saves us both money. Is that a worse fate for me to end up with a guy who I care about?

• 2:41:23Griffin Newman?

  Who is viewing me as means to an end? Or is he doing this out of pity? That would hurt me more? That they're both feeling each other out of being too afraid to acknowledge, I actually think I just like you because that's not really a thing afforded to people.

• 2:41:38Speaker 05

  Well, it's also not what was being done at that time.

• 2:41:40Griffin Newman?

  Exactly.

• 2:41:40Speaker 05

  We, people weren't marrying for love and for, you know, it was convenience. It was arrangements that made sense. And so

• 2:41:46Speaker 04

  Can you justify, like, you have to justify your feelings through some sort of balance sheet that this world identifies and says is the right way to do it.

• 2:41:56Griffin Newman?

  The tragedy of her brother's death opens up an opportunity of living a life of enjoyment and pleasure, right? And like self fulfillment and being understood and seen, which both of them feel skeptical about. And his whole fear is obviously, I don't want to end up like fucking Mr. Arthur. This guy's like the best of the West, but what? He's an old man who like sleeps on rocks, you know? And like, what? He's going to die in two years. I feel this guilt of leaving him here to do this alone, but also this is probably my only off ramp to living a quote unquote, normal life?

• 2:42:29Speaker 05

  Well, a life that is, or a life that could be happy or full of love. And in the Last segment, which David, would you like to segue into the last segment?

• 2:42:37David Sims?

  Absolutely. The Mortal War remains my favorite segment, but also a perfect, like I said, caper to their career in a way.

• 2:42:42Griffin Newman?

  We'll say I gave Zoe Kazan a supporting actress nomination this same year as well. She's great. I love her.

• 2:42:47Speaker 05

  She makes this piece work with every moment she's on screen. She is electric to watch.

• 2:42:54Griffin Newman?

  Don't want to see her.

• 2:42:56Speaker 04

  Can I say one thing about, cause we just, I just, as you just were talking about that, I just want to put one thing and we'll go right into five. Is that idea that is there also a thing about it's easy to give up?

• 2:43:06Griffin Newman?

  Very.

• 2:43:06Speaker 04

  And I feel like that, like, cause it's like, she doesn't give up initially, you know, and when her brother dies and she got, I'm going to move forward. She doesn't give up again. Like she keeps on not giving up, but then at the end I was like, it's too hard. I'm just gonna.

• 2:43:19David Sims?

  Yeah. At a certain point, it's like, Jesus Christ, like how I'm, what, like, what's life going to be like?

• 2:43:23Speaker 05

  Well, I'm probably in my twenties. I probably have a life expectancy of 40. Like, what are we doing?

• 2:43:29Speaker 04

  Right. And it's like, and already in this like handful of days.

• 2:43:33David Sims?

  Like everything's being, I mean, it's the, which is the wagon train thing.

• 2:43:37Griffin Newman?

  I can't go back. Where's back? I like, there's no future ahead of me, but my past exists even less.

• 2:43:41Speaker 05

  And then suddenly this, this sliver of hope opens up towards not just a possible future, but possibly a good love-filled future. In the final episode, when they're in the, in the thing and the trapper is talking about the woman that he was, uh, involved with. And someone says, did you love her? Like this is, I think the first time the word love has been spoken in the entire movie. Um, and he's like, what? Like, what are you even, what are you even talking about? Like, what is love?

• 2:44:09Griffin Newman?

  Right. That's a luxury. That is like.

• 2:44:12Speaker 05

  That doesn't exist for another hundred years.

• 2:44:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Yeah. And I think you could argue that the characters in the first three segments, I mean, like Tom Waits is obviously a guy who refuses to give up and wins, right?

• 2:44:22Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:44:22Griffin Newman?

  But the other three are people who push through some kind of struggle or danger. And you look at their ultimate deaths and you go, would it have been better if they just gave up at an earlier point?

• 2:44:34Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:44:34Griffin Newman?

  Like, what are you fighting for to a certain degree?

• 2:44:36Speaker 04

  When she gives up, it was just over the crest of the hill where her life is, her new life is.

• 2:44:42Griffin Newman?

  It was about to happen.

• 2:44:43Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:44:44Griffin Newman?

  She gave up because of a misunderstanding, which is, I just think such a profound tragedy.

• 2:44:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:44:49Griffin Newman?

  It it's beautiful. And this one's loosely based on a couple of different pieces.

• 2:44:53David Sims?

  It's based on a story called The Girl Who Got Rattled.

• 2:44:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:56David Sims?

  By Stuart Edward White. I don't know much more about it. I mean, that's why this.

• 2:44:58Speaker 05

  So it's this one, the Tom Waits ones.

• 2:45:00David Sims?

  Yeah, which is why this snuck in as an adapted screenplay nominee.

• 2:45:04Griffin Newman?

  Surprise nomination because no one was really thinking of this as an adapted movie.

• 2:45:07David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:45:08Griffin Newman?

  But also, um, I, I feel like the, the specific story that is cited is also based on kind of a legend of a folk tale.

• 2:45:17David Sims?

  Sure.

• 2:45:17Griffin Newman?

  A similar sort of.

• 2:45:18David Sims?

  Like, uh, yeah, Western, like, you know, this is like a Western trope.

• 2:45:22Speaker 04

  Tropes. Yeah. I mean, like, and that's why I feel like the end is really, when you talk about like different. And that, and that I think is why, like, when you leave this movie, it all pulls it. I mean, it really does pull the cords all together at the end.

• 2:45:36Speaker 05

  Well, the, the final one, the final one being this kind of, it was so starkly different, both in how it's done, how it looks. It is so insular. It is almost entirely inside of the carriage. It's in a studio.

• 2:45:50David Sims?

  Right. The creepiness of, you realize how dark it's gotten and then, and then the extra creepiness of them being like, stop, stop the carriage. And they're like, oh, it doesn't stop, like for anything, like Tyne Daly might just have to bite it, like, you know, and then.

• 2:46:05Griffin Newman?

  This is an episode of The Daily Show. We should call it.

• 2:46:07David Sims?

  And this is an episode.

• 2:46:07Speaker 05

  No, this is Cagney and Lacey.

• 2:46:09David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:46:09Speaker 05

  This is an episode of Cagney and Lacey.

• 2:46:11David Sims?

  No, I'm more of a judging Amy guy.

• 2:46:12Speaker 05

  I, oh, Brennan.

• 2:46:14David Sims?

  She was so good on that.

• 2:46:15Speaker 04

  I will also say that this is, I think why I lean in a lot here too, is like, these are five actors that are just, this is dialogue heavy. And I'm, I am riveted to it. And maybe it's also because of the lack of it, or this kind of pacing all the way through. It's like, yeah.

• 2:46:32Griffin Newman?

  But this is a classic Coens juice of just watching like five great character actors fucking cut it up.

• 2:46:37David Sims?

  Chelsea Ross, who I love.

• 2:46:38Griffin Newman?

  Great.

• 2:46:39David Sims?

  The great Chelsea Ross, who plays the trapper, just gets to pop off for five minutes.

• 2:46:44Speaker 05

  Marklin Baker.

• 2:46:45David Sims?

  Uh, Marklin Baker? Who's Marklin? No, no, no, no.

• 2:46:48Speaker 05

  No, no.

• 2:46:48David Sims?

  Who is that? You mean, is the Englishman?

• 2:46:50Speaker 05

  No.

• 2:46:51David Sims?

  Uh, who do you mean?

• 2:46:52Griffin Newman?

  Saul Rubinek is the Frenchman.

• 2:46:53David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:46:54Griffin Newman?

  Tyne Daly is the...

• 2:46:55David Sims?

  Is Mrs. Betjeman.

• 2:46:56Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:46:58Speaker 04

  Who am I thinking of?

• 2:46:59David Sims?

  I think you're thinking of John Joe O'Neill, unless you're thinking of Brendan Gleeson.

• 2:47:02Griffin Newman?

  I always think John Joe O'Neill is Jeremy Strong, or not Jeremy Strong, Danny Strong.

• 2:47:07David Sims?

  It is not? I know what you're saying. No.

• 2:47:08Griffin Newman?

  It looks like.

• 2:47:09David Sims?

  The guy's name is John Joe O'Neill. He also kind of looks like Mark Lynn Baker.

• 2:47:12Speaker 04

  Does he look like Mark Lynn Baker?

• 2:47:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, he does.

• 2:47:14Griffin Newman?

  He looks like Mark Lynn Baker.

• 2:47:15Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 2:47:15Griffin Newman?

  He looks like a lot of other guys.

• 2:47:17David Sims?

  Um, but his name is John Joe O'Neill. He's mostly like an Irish theater actor. Uh, but they've all got a monologue, except for Brendan Gleeson, who has a song, I feel.

• 2:47:26Speaker 04

  I love that.

• 2:47:27David Sims?

  We're sort of trading off, like, everybody gets to talk, uh, sort of almost uninterrupted for a bit.

• 2:47:32Griffin Newman?

  He's also part of a duo act that can be read very cleanly as a self-interest of the Coens, or at least kind of thinking about how they are perceived by their critics. That is part of my reading of this segment, that you have these people who represent... Uh, this segment is almost like a fucking Pixar's Inside Out, uh, argument between, uh, different positions on...

• 2:47:58David Sims?

  Kind of philosophies or...

• 2:47:59Griffin Newman?

  Philosophies. It's a philosophical debate. Each character's representing a side of it, right? You, you have, uh, the Saul Rubinek character, who is like actually just a philosopher. He is a guy who's very caught up in academic notion of studying, uh, theories of existence. You have a religious woman who also lives with a kind of shuttered, blinded denial of certain areas of existence.

• 2:48:21David Sims?

  She, and, but she's also specifically like, uh, she subscribes to like Chautauqua Thought, which was like a big thing right at the turn of the century in term of what she's talking about, that kind of temperant woman's movement, whereas Chelsea Ross is like, I don't know, I'm a dirty guy with a big beard who married a lady of America. But I realize we're all the same.

• 2:48:38Speaker 04

  He's a survivalist. But that's the best part about it is no matter what you believe, it all is the same.

• 2:48:43Griffin Newman?

  Exactly.

• 2:48:44David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:48:44Speaker 04

  Right?

• 2:48:44Griffin Newman?

  Chelsea Ross has no theology. He's just like, I fuck a woman, doesn't matter, I can't talk to her. I catch some beavers.

• 2:48:50David Sims?

  We kind of do some... Signals, it's all good.

• 2:48:52Griffin Newman?

  Right, it's all good. And then you have these two brothers who I think are representing this notion of the Coens as these sort of like mordant tricksters. Who love like spitefully, kind of like mockingly sending characters to their death.

• 2:49:05Speaker 04

  Well, and that's what I think is kind of this, if it is the.

• 2:49:09David Sims?

  They say like, we enjoy it. We like watching them die.

• 2:49:11Griffin Newman?

  Which is what their critics say.

• 2:49:13David Sims?

  Right, no, I know, I know, exactly.

• 2:49:15Griffin Newman?

  Putting dumb characters in danger and having them die terribly.

• 2:49:18Speaker 04

  Well, and they have themselves. Oh, go ahead.

• 2:49:19Speaker 05

  I was gonna say, they even say, like, oh, you can bring them in dead or alive. And they're like, yeah, but we, we only bring them in dead. Like, don't worry, we kill everybody.

• 2:49:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, but I love that if this is the last one, whether it was not intentional, probably that they didn't know.

• 2:49:34David Sims?

  Maybe not entirely, yeah.

• 2:49:35Speaker 04

  But this is the first time I feel like you see the two of them represented. I mean, these are very much them, right?

• 2:49:42Griffin Newman?

  I mean, yes, yes, yes. And, and even down to they are bounty hunters who, whose act is one guy's a performer.

• 2:49:50Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:49:50Griffin Newman?

  Who distracts so that the other guy can attack, which speaks to this kind of like the two-headed director thing that people talk about with them of like, two guys approaching the same motive from different angles.

• 2:50:00Speaker 04

  I've always heard also that one talks to you about acting and one is worried all about the technical stuff when you were on set, you know?

• 2:50:06David Sims?

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 2:50:07Griffin Newman?

  But also that they represent this sort of like in, in the, the ideological wheel of this, that they represent this sort of like, we tell ourselves stories in order to live thing, right?

• 2:50:16Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:50:16Griffin Newman?

  That like, what is their function? Death's coming no matter what. We're not murderers. We're just fulfilling a thing that has already been requested by the universe. And we, we ease people into that with stories. Right? We, we tell them stories, we sing them songs, these old folk tales.

• 2:50:33Speaker 04

  Well, that's why that.

• 2:50:34Griffin Newman?

  The stories they tell are, are Gothic, are mordant, you know?

• 2:50:37Speaker 04

  And, and that's why you have that, like, I think these bookends, it's like, the first is like them doing the movie version of how they do it. And then this is like the, the, not the commentary track, but the Q and A afterwards, you know? It's like, it's, you have the, the two perspectives of what they're trying to do.

• 2:50:53David Sims?

  A hundred percent.

• 2:50:54Griffin Newman?

  But there's just one stop on the carriage and everyone's got to get out here.

• 2:50:57David Sims?

  I fucking love it.

• 2:50:58Speaker 04

  And they don't want to.

• 2:50:59Speaker 05

  And they don't want to. Ladies first, I need help getting down, like.

• 2:51:03David Sims?

  Some good bits. Some good, I don't want to go bits.

• 2:51:05Speaker 04

  It's and it's.

• 2:51:06David Sims?

  And I like saw Ruben going like, yeah, right. Like, let me at them. But sorry, Paul.

• 2:51:11Speaker 04

  No, no, I just, I, this is something that I just feel like rewatching it. I didn't remember it from the first time as cleanly. And then I was like, oh, this is, I think my favorite thing.

• 2:51:22David Sims?

  I agree.

• 2:51:22Griffin Newman?

  Uh, Mark Pease, or I'm sorry, Joshua Pease, wrote a piece for the now defunct birth movie's death. On this segment when it came out, that's incredibly good about this sort of being what feels like the greatest summation of their worldview.

• 2:51:38Speaker 04

  Forgive me, because even though I'm such a fan and a regular listener, Patreon member, does the dossier get published?

• 2:51:46David Sims?

  No, it's too like the, the sources JJ is pulling like, it's like commercializing it anyways, a little tricky.

• 2:51:54Speaker 04

  You know, okay, okay, okay. Things we don't want to clear. That, what you just said, Griff, is a great example. I would, after some of these things, want to then go and read.

• 2:52:02David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:03Speaker 04

  Or listen to or whatever. Please do.

• 2:52:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, you can.

• 2:52:06Speaker 04

  I like that. I like that idea.

• 2:52:07Griffin Newman?

  JJ, JJ is such a law abiding citizen that anytime we sort of floated the idea.

• 2:52:11Speaker 04

  The movie we're doing tomorrow night in Philly.

• 2:52:13Griffin Newman?

  Are you really? Really? Wow. Have I seen that? Is that the Jamie Foxx one?

• 2:52:17Speaker 04

  Gerard Butler, yeah.

• 2:52:18Griffin Newman?

  And it's, uh, F Gary Gray?

• 2:52:20Speaker 04

  Yes. Oh, is it? Yeah. I didn't realize that. I haven't watched it.

• 2:52:23David Sims?

  Is that movie any good? It was like a hit. It was a hit.

• 2:52:26Speaker 04

  It was, I remember when it came out, people were talking, this is the new seven.

• 2:52:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:30Speaker 04

  Like, this is like, the way it was like, it was like a. And I, like, you know, it was like that, like, I forget who's, yeah, but.

• 2:52:36Griffin Newman?

  It's got a big twist, right?

• 2:52:38David Sims?

  Right. It's like, he's done a scheme that's like, he gets put in prison, then he comes out and he can do bad things or whatever.

• 2:52:44Speaker 04

  We're gonna figure it out tomorrow. Uh, we watched Monkey Bone today, uh, which wow.

• 2:52:49David Sims?

  Which.

• 2:52:49Speaker 04

  F Gary Gray.

• 2:52:50David Sims?

  Yeah. I mean, the problem with that Monkey Bone is just so normal and regular.

• 2:52:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I wish they'd loosen up.

• 2:52:55Speaker 04

  In a normal way. I'm gonna say this tonight on stage. I imagine it's the, we've been doing this show for 15 years. How did this get made? Is the first time I literally wrote down in my notes, how did this get made? Like, how did it like go? I don't understand how the script was written. I don't understand how anyone signed on to it. I don't understand any, I was like, I like, and this is not like from the 1970s. This is like.

• 2:53:18David Sims?

  No, no, we've seen it. Oh, yeah.

• 2:53:20Speaker 05

  Oh, they did it on this show.

• 2:53:21David Sims?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:53:22Speaker 05

  Henry Selig.

• 2:53:23David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:53:23Griffin Newman?

  Oh, wow. It's also, it's one of the greatest, uh, uh, better, all the years of, of therapy and analysis.

• 2:53:30David Sims?

  You should.

• 2:53:30Griffin Newman?

  And psychiatric work I've done, rarely has someone nailed me to the wall as hard as Sims. When I was talking about how much I loved this movie when it came out as a child.

• 2:53:40David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:53:40Griffin Newman?

  And he was like, it makes perfect sense that the chaos in your brain, how have you have described feeling when you were a child, that monkey bone would feel like a relief.

• 2:53:49David Sims?

  Monkey bone calmed the noise.

• 2:53:51Speaker 05

  If only I could be in the underworld.

• 2:53:54David Sims?

  Everyone else is like popping Advil watching that movie.

• 2:53:56Griffin Newman?

  And that my brain was like 17 different like cartoon alarm clocks all doing like routines. I was like, oh, monkey balls, monkey balls kind of settling.

• 2:54:04Speaker 05

  Monkey balls.

• 2:54:05Griffin Newman?

  Monkey balls.

• 2:54:05Speaker 05

  Monkey balls is a good one.

• 2:54:06Griffin Newman?

  Monkey bone is a dick. I mean, we should mention that because he represents a penis. Uh, JJ, JJ just, he, uh, is, has always been like, if I were to publish these, I would go about them a very different way because he respects.

• 2:54:19David Sims?

  I get it.

• 2:54:19Speaker 04

  Uh, citations. I think that like sometimes it's like, it may just be nice to have just the straight up links to something like without the, you know, like if the bigger pieces like the love movies, death and stuff like that, like.

• 2:54:30Griffin Newman?

  Drop links in the description.

• 2:54:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:54:32David Sims?

  Yeah, we do that as well as the newsletter.

• 2:54:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:54:34Speaker 04

  Newsletter is great.

• 2:54:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, able to sort of hand select some of that, but, but some, some of the dossier gets messy. And JJ starts editorializing.

• 2:54:45Speaker 05

  Oh, that's great. I love that.

• 2:54:47David Sims?

  He does. I like a little JJ aside.

• 2:54:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but just a little bit.

• 2:54:50Speaker 04

  Just a little.

• 2:54:50Griffin Newman?

  And we should say that this week he did too much and thus he is fired.

• 2:54:54Speaker 05

  Oh, wow.

• 2:54:55Griffin Newman?

  Um.

• 2:54:56Speaker 04

  I guess like.

• 2:54:56David Sims?

  Sad to let him go.

• 2:54:58Griffin Newman?

  It's a shame.

• 2:54:58David Sims?

  He's in the, he's in the cart and he's in the carriage.

• 2:55:01Griffin Newman?

  Next stop.

• 2:55:02Speaker 04

  Drop him in the, the river.

• 2:55:04Speaker 05

  How heavy a rock, how heavy a rock is JJ?

• 2:55:07Griffin Newman?

  He is a pretty heavy rock.

• 2:55:10Speaker 04

  Now I'll ask you all a question.

• 2:55:11David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:55:12Speaker 04

  As you, you, you've talked about on, uh, was it the Big Lebowski episode? Yeah. Where, you know, John Chittura obviously goes off and makes his movie, the Jesus movie.

• 2:55:21David Sims?

  Of course.

• 2:55:22Speaker 04

  Is there a character in this that you would like, cause like, we talk about-

• 2:55:26David Sims?

  Isn't Buster Scruggs?

• 2:55:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:55:27Speaker 05

  Oh, I want a movie about now rich Tom Waits.

• 2:55:32David Sims?

  That is like- Like Chester Lampwick in the Simpsons episode with the solid gold car or whatever.

• 2:55:38Speaker 05

  Now he's rich. What, how is he different?

• 2:55:41Speaker 04

  I love that.

• 2:55:42David Sims?

  Everything has to work out. Everything. But it's like, no conflict.

• 2:55:47Speaker 05

  It's him and the owl.

• 2:55:49Speaker 04

  I mean, it's very Beverly Hills bellies. If you think about it, you know, it's about a different era.

• 2:55:54Griffin Newman?

  Beyond all the obvious reasons why the Waits segment is such like Ben Bate, like, you know, old coot digging.

• 2:56:01Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:56:01Griffin Newman?

  Right. Right. Tom Waits himself.

• 2:56:03Speaker 05

  It's a fucking, it's wet too.

• 2:56:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but it also is a everything works out. It is a guy who seems destined for failure and death. And at the end he leaves with a bunch of fucking gold.

• 2:56:14Speaker 04

  By the way, I'm not-

• 2:56:15Griffin Newman?

  It's what you're always asking movies to do.

• 2:56:16Speaker 04

  I, I will, uh, you know, now I'm not advertising Sora, but I did see a, you could, you know, you could get in this Sora and just put those jeans in there too. You could actually make this segment right up your alley.

• 2:56:27Griffin Newman?

  It has to be real.

• 2:56:27Speaker 04

  Because I just saw, which I, I'll show you a post episode. Uh, somebody posted, uh, Randy Macho Man Savage in Revenge of the Sith. And it is, it is-

• 2:56:38David Sims?

  This is the whole problem with AI. You're like, that sounds good.

• 2:56:42Speaker 04

  And I, and I watched it and I was like, wow, for a multitude of-

• 2:56:46Speaker 05

  Wait, is he just inserted or is he taking the place of?

• 2:56:51Speaker 04

  It's the final scene with, uh, you know, we, it's, it's with-

• 2:56:55Griffin Newman?

  Mustafar lava battle?

• 2:56:56Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 2:56:57Speaker 05

  It's like you, Anakin, you were my brother. Oh, yeah.

• 2:57:01Speaker 04

  He's doing, he's doing the lines. I mean, I'll play you, I'll play you a section of it. You can hear a section of it just to hear it. But it's, he's doing, he's doing the lines. I mean-

• 2:57:10Griffin Newman?

  I'm like, you're saying he's doing the lines as if it isn't like fucking CGI necromancer.

• 2:57:16Speaker 05

  What a fucking bummer.

• 2:57:17Speaker 04

  I mean, this is, I mean-

• 2:57:17Speaker 05

  What a bummer. This is so interesting to me.

• 2:57:19Griffin Newman?

  What a bummer. This sounds awesome.

• 2:57:21David Sims?

  This is another reason you should stay off social media, Jason. There's less ability to manipulate you.

• 2:57:32Griffin Newman?

  That is effective.

• 2:57:33David Sims?

  Terrifying.

• 2:57:36David Sims?

  Wait, who's, who's taking the, uh, who's taking the Hayden role?

• 2:57:39Speaker 04

  I, I think it's just, I think it is Hayden.

• 2:57:41David Sims?

  It's Hayden. It's like, okay.

• 2:57:42Griffin Newman?

  Oh, that's funny as hell.

• 2:57:44David Sims?

  Yeah, no, I mean, this is what AI is for. I want to see Leon Kennedy from Resident Evil 4 attend the Met Ball.

• 2:57:49Griffin Newman?

  That's all you ever want to do.

• 2:57:51Speaker 04

  Anyway, I'm sorry.

• 2:57:52David Sims?

  That is the one time I've used AI.

• 2:57:54Speaker 04

  You could redo it.

• 2:57:54David Sims?

  I wanted that to happen.

• 2:57:55Speaker 02

  All right.

• 2:57:56David Sims?

  Uh, and our fans have always been so normal about our use of AI.

• 2:58:01Griffin Newman?

  I'm being clear. We hate AI.

• 2:58:02David Sims?

  We hate AI. We reject it.

• 2:58:04Griffin Newman?

  I want to be unequivocal about that. Paul, can you send me that link?

• 2:58:08David Sims?

  No, we truly reject.

• 2:58:09Speaker 05

  I hate AI as it's used in creative pursuits, but boy, am I down for AI in crunching data for medical research. And in all, in all manner of other things that it is great at.

• 2:58:21Griffin Newman?

  This is the whole problem. It's like, there's three things we wanted to do and a tremendous amount of money is being spent on the exact things we don't need.

• 2:58:27Speaker 05

  In the next 10 years, we're about to get a lot of cures for catastrophic diseases and a tremendous amount of dog shit content.

• 2:58:36Griffin Newman?

  That's the problem.

• 2:58:36Speaker 04

  You're gonna get a lot of shitposting. I mean, that, that, that 20 second thing is a shitpost that just happened to be.

• 2:58:41Speaker 05

  What is the company that just said they're gonna put out 500 AI podcasts?

• 2:58:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:58:46David Sims?

  Uh, that's called, uh, Earwell.

• 2:58:47Griffin Newman?

  Check Productions.

• 2:58:48David Sims?

  Maybe we're doing it.

• 2:58:49Speaker 04

  No, they have, they're, they're, it's so crazy. They're all gonna be.

• 2:58:52Griffin Newman?

  We want to be very clear. We hate AI. Stay tuned for our slate of AI shows launching 2026.

• 2:58:57David Sims?

  You ever want a podcast that's just 500 llamas?

• 2:58:59Speaker 05

  Oh, we got one of those. And it's AI Marie Barty?

• 2:59:03David Sims?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We actually fed her all the way. We just, we just pushed her in for the phone.

• 2:59:07Griffin Newman?

  rights to her laugh, which will be replicated onto other podcasts.

• 2:59:11Speaker 05

  It's her laugh and Seth Rogen's laugh. Great laugh. Just head to head.

• 2:59:15Griffin Newman?

  It is a shame we didn't have them in the same room laughing back.

• 2:59:18David Sims?

  We should. I do, I do need to wrap up soon, but we should play the box office game before we do Cohen's top 10 sheer, uh, or.

• 2:59:24Griffin Newman?

  I, I want to, I want to say to Paul's point, Jesus Rolls is Totoro San Cohen's, do you mind if I take this character and run with it? If Tim Blake Nelson said tomorrow, hey, would you let me make a full Buster Scruggs movie? I would not be concerned about that.

• 2:59:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, you know, I, I think you'd have to figure out. How does it sustain? Because

• 2:59:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:59:45Speaker 04

  It is a Bugs Bunny short.

• 2:59:46David Sims?

  Maybe it can't. I mean, maybe it can't.

• 2:59:48Griffin Newman?

  I'm not saying he should, but I trust him as a writer and director enough that if he said, I want to see if I can do Buster Scruggs on my own. I wouldn't immediately say red alert in the way

• 2:59:58Speaker 04

  Right.

• 2:59:58Griffin Newman?

  That Turturro announcing, I'm making a sex comedy

• 3:00:01Speaker 04

  Oh, absolutely.

• 3:00:02Griffin Newman?

  of the Jesus on a road trip was like, this is only bad ideas.

• 3:00:05Speaker 04

  No, I agree. I feel like there, but this is like a world in which I wish that they would make more shorts and it's almost like that Netflix would allow like a a Coen Brothers short channel, like every, you know, it's like, you know, they make one thing. It doesn't have to be big. It's just like a 15 minute. I mean, it's unrealistic, but I would love to see that kind of collaboration with them.

• 3:00:26Griffin Newman?

  Our, our friend, the aforementioned Connor Ratliff, has said that he thinks the high points of this are amongst the best stuff that Coens have ever done. And that he feels like if it had been released as separate shorts, that it would sort of stand in greater estimation. Because some of these are just really pleasant to rewatch and really easily revisable. And obviously the point is putting them all together and the greater conclusion they come to, right? And the thematic connections and echoes. But some of these are like tough hangs.

• 3:00:54Speaker 04

  Right.

• 3:00:55Griffin Newman?

  And you're like, you know, fucking Meal Ticket's incredible, but you don't like

• 3:00:59Speaker 04

  You're not gonna pop that in.

• 3:01:00Griffin Newman?

  You're not inclined to fire it up. I have watched the Buster Scruggs segment upwards of 10 times. This is the second time I've ever seen Meal Ticket.

• 3:01:07David Sims?

  I think that's understandable.

• 3:01:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:01:09David Sims?

  Yeah, right. That makes sense. And even Mortal Remains, which I love, I only love it as the capper to this movie.

• 3:01:16Griffin Newman?

  Doesn't work on its own.

• 3:01:16Speaker 05

  You wouldn't watch it on its own, but boy, I would send someone the Tom Waits one, the Buster Scruggs one as individual pieces.

• 3:01:24David Sims?

  And maybe the Franco one, right? And like

• 3:01:27Griffin Newman?

  But we reduced it to a gif. We have the Franco one and the most palatable.

• 3:01:30David Sims?

  I know, I do hear that Netflix is building a theme park and that the carriage ride will be a part of it.

• 3:01:36Speaker 04

  By the way, in many respects, the Franco gif is the chicken.

• 3:01:40David Sims?

  The Franco gif is the chicken. And thank you for saying that, Paul. And it is true.

• 3:01:45Speaker 05

  Well said.

• 3:01:45David Sims?

  Now, this film, this film came, this film came out.

• 3:01:48Griffin Newman?

  Paul won the podcast.

• 3:01:49David Sims?

  He did a good job. He did a good job. Film came out November 9th, 2018.

• 3:01:54Griffin Newman?

  Louis CK and I were seated.

• 3:01:56David Sims?

  Obviously Netflix did not report its box office at all. But it was not number one at the box office. Number one was an animated film based on a children's classic story, Griffin, that this movie made you feel normal and regular.

• 3:02:10Griffin Newman?

  It's the Peanuts movie?

• 3:02:11David Sims?

  No.

• 3:02:12Speaker 04

  I have it. Harold and the Purple Crayon?

• 3:02:13David Sims?

  Nope.

• 3:02:14Griffin Newman?

  Okay, it's 2018?

• 3:02:15David Sims?

  2018.

• 3:02:16Griffin Newman?

  What month you said?

• 3:02:18David Sims?

  Uh, November, November.

• 3:02:19Griffin Newman?

  And I tazed out over this one?

• 3:02:21David Sims?

  You didn't like, uh, you didn't like some of the things going on in this one. I've never seen it.

• 3:02:24Griffin Newman?

  I didn't like some of the things.

• 3:02:26David Sims?

  You didn't like the star, you didn't like the voice he was doing.

• 3:02:28Griffin Newman?

  Oh, this is Benedict Cumberbatch as the Grinch.

• 3:02:31David Sims?

  This is, uh, the Illumination, the Grinch movie.

• 3:02:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I don't like that movie.

• 3:02:35Speaker 05

  I've watched it many, many times.

• 3:02:38David Sims?

  It made about $500 million.

• 3:02:40Griffin Newman?

  It's a hit. It's a big hit.

• 3:02:41Speaker 04

  This is a, this is right in the wheelhouse of my kids.

• 3:02:43David Sims?

  Sure.

• 3:02:44Speaker 04

  Tyler, the creator, does a song, "You're Mean, Well, Mr. Grinch." Here's what I will say. I do, oh, yes. I, uh, I do not like the retconning that we like the Ron Howard Grinch, they're re-releasing it.

• 3:02:56David Sims?

  I don't either. No, the one I like is the fucking cartoon. Yeah.

• 3:03:00Speaker 04

  The chode, yeah, yeah. But they are re-releasing that in theaters this Christmas. I'm like, no, no, no, no, we didn't, that was, we don't like that.

• 3:03:07David Sims?

  I mean, that movie was a colossal hit, the Ron Howard film, the Jim Carrey.

• 3:03:10Speaker 04

  Because it just people went like, wait, it's Ron Howard, it's Jim Carrey.

• 3:03:13David Sims?

  I think it was a little bit like, it's Christmas time, the Grinch is here.

• 3:03:16Speaker 05

  My guess is there is a nostalgia for people of a certain age.

• 3:03:20David Sims?

  Yes.

• 3:03:21Speaker 05

  That that movie aired when they were young and now they're gonna show it to their kids.

• 3:03:25Griffin Newman?

  That movie, you also, like, that was the highest grossing film of its year. It was a enormous blockbuster.

• 3:03:31Speaker 04

  They built a section of park at Universal. They have not taken over. It's still there. Whoville is still there, part of Horror Nights.

• 3:03:37Griffin Newman?

  I also think it's interesting that, like, Universal was like, we're gonna make this fucking animated Grinch because people have complaints about the Jim Carrey one and maybe we can make a better definitive Grinch movie and replace the stuff in our parks. Like, it felt like that was part of the impetus was, let's have a new representation of Grinch.

• 3:03:54Speaker 04

  Cause that Illumination.

• 3:03:55Griffin Newman?

  Quietly makes $500 million and Universal has gone back to Jim Carrey Grinch. Like everything in the park, the merch, everything.

• 3:04:02Speaker 05

  I would never have been able to pull that. I have no recollection of it even existing.

• 3:04:08Speaker 04

  I've seen it about 17 times.

• 3:04:09Griffin Newman?

  After Boris Karloff did the fucking Chuck Jones animated version, they announced Benedict Cumberbatch and I'm like, makes sense, perfect voice for Grinch. I see the first trailer, he's like, I don't like Christmas. And I'm like, why does he sound like me?

• 3:04:21Speaker 04

  I know.

• 3:04:21Griffin Newman?

  Why hire Benedict Cumberbatch and have him sound like me?

• 3:04:24Speaker 05

  Yeah, I love this rant.

• 3:04:25Speaker 04

  He should sound like Smog.

• 3:04:27Griffin Newman?

  He should.

• 3:04:27Speaker 05

  You're a mean one, a mystic smog.

• 3:04:31Griffin Newman?

  I find presents annoying. Sometimes they bounce, baby.

• 3:04:36David Sims?

  Number two at the box office is a, it was a big hit. A film that was a big hit, won Oscars.

• 3:04:42Griffin Newman?

  Won Oscars.

• 3:04:42David Sims?

  It is very bad.

• 3:04:44Griffin Newman?

  Is it Bohemian Rhapsody?

• 3:04:45David Sims?

  It's Bohemian Rhapsody.

• 3:04:46Griffin Newman?

  There we go.

• 3:04:47Speaker 04

  My favorite thing about Bohemian Rhapsody was when it won best editing for the Oscar.

• 3:04:52David Sims?

  Well, it did have the most editing.

• 3:04:54Speaker 04

  Well, that was, that was.

• 3:04:55David Sims?

  Quantity wise.

• 3:04:56Speaker 05

  Volume.

• 3:04:56David Sims?

  Right.

• 3:04:57Speaker 05

  It's a volume award.

• 3:04:58Speaker 04

  It was mind blowing. Cause I would not, I did not sit through that. I did not subject myself to that full film.

• 3:05:04Griffin Newman?

  This is so weird. I just Googled who directed Bohemian Rhapsody and my iPad caught on fire.

• 3:05:09David Sims?

  We'll never forget, the whole nightmare, obviously that movie's production has already unfolded in the press.

• 3:05:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:05:15David Sims?

  And then they're like, come to the press screening. I go to, you know, they're kind of like, here's Bohemian Rhapsody. I go to it and I was like, F, that movie. Like so glad I don't have to think about this again. And then it won Academy Awards. It was a giant hit.

• 3:05:27Speaker 05

  Does that?

• 3:05:27David Sims?

  Cause Queen is like, cause people like Queen.

• 3:05:29Speaker 05

  No, no. Here's my question. Cause I think about this all the time when I'm listening to you guys talk about it. Does that ever, cause I have really, in my adulthood, lost faith in awards. Lost faith in the Oscars, lost faith in the Emmys.

• 3:05:45David Sims?

  Communicating quality.

• 3:05:46Speaker 05

  These are not, these awards do not delineate what are the, the best or most interesting or deserving movies whatsoever. Does Bohemian Rhapsody or Green Book or any of these other awards cause you to lose faith?

• 3:06:01Griffin Newman?

  Really bad year.

• 3:06:02Speaker 05

  I, cause you to lose faith in the institution of the Oscars.

• 3:06:05David Sims?

  Ah, sure.

• 3:06:06Speaker 04

  I have given, what you call, my, my friend gave me a tip many, many years ago. To do any Oscar pool, and it's been very good for me, which is just go by, look at it and go like, who's the biggest name? What title sounds interesting? You'll always win short film because a majority of choices are people that are just like, oh yeah, that person's in a show. Great. Like it's, it's the reason why I think SNL is cleaned up in the supporting actor category. Cause it's like, oh, Bad Bunny was on SNL.

• 3:06:36Griffin Newman?

  I bet Tiffany Haddish did a good job. That sounds like she would have done that well.

• 3:06:41Speaker 04

  Right. And it's like, oh, it's, and not that, not that she's not, but it is a funny, interesting thing that I think it is just, people just going down. I think there's a lot of people who watch it. I think a lot of people care about it, but I think a majority of people are just going on odd gut choices.

• 3:06:54Griffin Newman?

  There was that year that Ellen Burstyn got a supporting actress nomination for an HBO movie from the Emmys.

• 3:07:00Speaker 04

  One second.

• 3:07:01Griffin Newman?

  It is, it is a sub 10 second cameo. And she was just like, clearly they just saw my name on a list and said, she's probably good in that.

• 3:07:10Speaker 04

  Don Cheadle got nominated for best supporting actor in the Captain America.

• 3:07:15Griffin Newman?

  He's good in that. Winter Soldier.

• 3:07:17Speaker 04

  Falcon and Winter Soldier, yes. Walk through a museum and probably on screen for two minutes.

• 3:07:22Griffin Newman?

  He's weirdly on screen longer than he was on set. No, I think the Oscars are in a weird place where they've made such a push to diversify their ranks and go younger and more international, more diverse and weirder, and try to expand the taste of their voting body because it had become so old and calcified. And what happens now is it feels like there's a pendulum swing every couple of years where you get a year like this, where you're like all dog shit, green, blah, blah, blah, best picture.

• 3:07:51Speaker 04

  And then you get parasite.

• 3:07:53Griffin Newman?

  And then it will swing the other way. So it's a weird back and forth.

• 3:07:57Speaker 04

  I also think it's reflective of the time. Like this year's going to be interesting because it's like, what's really out there? What, what's going to be coming up for most normies is a bunch of movies they don't know. It's like the train dreams and Hedda and all that sort of stuff. It's going to be like, no one's going to see that, but the movies that the two, you ham net like, it's going to be sinners and one battle. And I would argue that one battle, as much as I love it, is not going to be even to, on most people's radar. Sinners is. Is gonna be the only movie this year that is gonna make any.

• 3:08:26Griffin Newman?

  And or Wicked and Avatar gonna get in there, but they're gonna get in there as a sort of consolation prize.

• 3:08:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:08:31Griffin Newman?

  You don't really have a chance of winning nomination.

• 3:08:33Speaker 05

  Green Book Two.

• 3:08:35Griffin Newman?

  Green Book Two is stealthily.

• 3:08:37Speaker 05

  The next chapter.

• 3:08:38Griffin Newman?

  A strong contender.

• 3:08:39Speaker 04

  I like it. I mean, it's fun. It's, yeah, it's deeper.

• 3:08:41Griffin Newman?

  It's good. It's good. It's good.

• 3:08:45David Sims?

  Green Book Two hardly booking.

• 3:08:47Speaker 05

  Ah.

• 3:08:48David Sims?

  Number three, The Box Office, a bit of a forgotten film. It's new this week. It's an, uh, action horror film.

• 3:08:55Griffin Newman?

  Action horror?

• 3:08:56David Sims?

  Yes, a period action horror. It's a war horror movie.

• 3:09:00Griffin Newman?

  It's a war?

• 3:09:01Speaker 04

  Not Shadow in the Cloud.

• 3:09:02Griffin Newman?

  Is it Overlord?

• 3:09:03David Sims?

  Overlord.

• 3:09:04Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 3:09:05David Sims?

  Julius Avery movie.

• 3:09:07Griffin Newman?

  Yes, I weirdly fell down a rabbit hole, uh, Wikipedia last night, uh, of, uh, Julius Avery was announced in 2020 to reboot Van Helsing.

• 3:09:18Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 3:09:18Griffin Newman?

  I don't remember how I got there. I was going down a Van Helsing thing.

• 3:09:21Speaker 04

  Right.

• 3:09:22David Sims?

  Uh huh.

• 3:09:22Griffin Newman?

  But, but so Overlord top of line. Only for that reason.

• 3:09:25Speaker 04

  I was gonna say, we did it last night, Van Ha-.

• 3:09:28David Sims?

  He, he since then has done Samaritan, the Nicholas Cage superhero movie that's kind of forgotten.

• 3:09:33Griffin Newman?

  No, was that Stallone?

• 3:09:35David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, sorry, what am I talking about? Stallone, yeah, not, not Cage. Uh, and then The Pope's Exorcist, of course.

• 3:09:39Speaker 05

  Oh, yes, which we also did.

• 3:09:41David Sims?

  Crow on that best.

• 3:09:41Speaker 04

  By the way, Samaritan was a direct rip of a movie that I had done, Arch Enemy.

• 3:09:46Griffin Newman?

  Oh.

• 3:09:47Speaker 04

  That was, uh, that I was like, it was almost shot, the trailer was cut the same way, too. It was very interesting.

• 3:09:53David Sims?

  Manginello.

• 3:09:54Speaker 04

  Yes, right. Exactly. Yeah.

• 3:09:56David Sims?

  Um, no, the thing about Overlord, which I've never seen and heard was like, okay, kind of like fun, silly, goofy, gory stuff is that it was initially gonna be another Cloverfield.

• 3:10:05Griffin Newman?

  It was gonna be World War Two Cloverfield, and then the response to Cloverfield paradox was so bad.

• 3:10:10David Sims?

  That they were like, let's stop calling things Cloverfield.

• 3:10:12Griffin Newman?

  That versus it being like, this helps sell original spec script movies. If you tie them into the Cloverfield and use that branding, they were like, fuck, we ruined the branding.

• 3:10:20David Sims?

  Yeah. Number four, The Box Office is a normal Disney family movie. Everyone remembers.

• 3:10:26Griffin Newman?

  Normal.

• 3:10:27David Sims?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:10:27Griffin Newman?

  It's not a live action remake.

• 3:10:29David Sims?

  No.

• 3:10:30Griffin Newman?

  But it has that vibe.

• 3:10:32David Sims?

  Sure.

• 3:10:32Griffin Newman?

  Is it Nutcracker in the Four Realms?

• 3:10:33David Sims?

  There you go.

• 3:10:34Griffin Newman?

  There we go.

• 3:10:34Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 3:10:35Griffin Newman?

  Now, you are one of three credit directors.

• 3:10:37David Sims?

  Right. Lassie Hallstrom did Two of the Realms. Joe Johnson did one. I did a Realm.

• 3:10:41Griffin Newman?

  He did a Realm.

• 3:10:41David Sims?

  It was my joke back in the day.

• 3:10:43Griffin Newman?

  Picked up a Realm as a favorite.

• 3:10:43David Sims?

  But that was a true, I think, classic Disney where they're like, let's do a Nutcracker movie. And they're like, okay, great. Any other ideas on casting story? And they're like, oh, just start production.

• 3:10:53Griffin Newman?

  Throw a couple of realms in there.

• 3:10:54David Sims?

  We'll figure it out. I don't know what they're gonna have gowns and stuff. Like, it's fine. Like, it just, because they fired Hallstrom and replaced him with Joe Johnson, I think.

• 3:11:02Griffin Newman?

  Extensive reshoots were overseen by Joe Johnson.

• 3:11:04David Sims?

  Like Morgan Freeman's there. He's got like an eye patch or something.

• 3:11:07Griffin Newman?

  Sure, Knightley?

• 3:11:08David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 3:11:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:11:09David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 3:11:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:11:10David Sims?

  Never seen it. My daughter does love The Nutcracker. I watched the Macaulay Culkin one with her a lot.

• 3:11:14Griffin Newman?

  Sure, that one's fun.

• 3:11:14David Sims?

  Yeah, that was good. Uh, number five at the box office. Oh, one of my favorite movies of 2018.

• 3:11:19Griffin Newman?

  Truly or 50 specially?

• 3:11:20David Sims?

  And I just attended an intimate dinner with its director.

• 3:11:23Griffin Newman?

  Bradley Cooper. Is it A Star is Born?

• 3:11:24David Sims?

  A Star is Born.

• 3:11:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:11:26David Sims?

  Obviously a gigantic hit. It's been out for six weeks and it's made $178 million.

• 3:11:31Griffin Newman?

  Oh, well, did it end up at two?

• 3:11:33David Sims?

  Uh, it ended up making, uh, I don't know. I mean, it definitely, yeah.

• 3:11:37Griffin Newman?

  Another best.

• 3:11:38David Sims?

  Two fifteen domestic.

• 3:11:40Speaker 05

  Another best song nomination in here.

• 3:11:43Speaker 04

  And if you remember the performance of it.

• 3:11:45Speaker 05

  Totally normal performance of it.

• 3:11:47Speaker 04

  That, that poof.

• 3:11:48David Sims?

  That was one of those true, like, the Oscars do rock. Because like, this is insane that I'm watching this.

• 3:11:54Speaker 04

  And that's, and that is why I feel like the spectacle of the Oscars will still, you'll always get something good.

• 3:12:02David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:12:02Speaker 04

  You will get something good.

• 3:12:03David Sims?

  I'm hopeful this year.

• 3:12:05Griffin Newman?

  Especially in 10 years when they let Will Smith back in the building.

• 3:12:07Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 3:12:08Griffin Newman?

  That's when you're gonna be guaranteed something good.

• 3:12:11David Sims?

  Uh, just did my hands out.

• 3:12:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:12:12David Sims?

  Like, two big slappers.

• 3:12:14Griffin Newman?

  Uh.

• 3:12:16Speaker 05

  Two big slappers.

• 3:12:17Speaker 04

  I mean, I still, we talked about this on How Did This Get Made? I love his mea culpa to that in Bad Boys Four, where he does like kind of address, it's like Martin slaps him. And it's like, now we've made peace with the slap. And then that was one of the things I've made, and I think it was because of COVID. Like, I've really made a turn. I'm like, was it that bad? I mean, it was.

• 3:12:40David Sims?

  It was one of those things where.

• 3:12:41Griffin Newman?

  Excuse me, Paul, he could have killed.

• 3:12:43David Sims?

  Where people got a little too hysterical in the other direction of like the. And I was like.

• 3:12:47Griffin Newman?

  He is under attack.

• 3:12:47David Sims?

  You are not allowed.

• 3:12:49Speaker 04

  Right.

• 3:12:51David Sims?

  Charge the stage and start hitting people.

• 3:12:53Speaker 04

  I agree. It is categorically insane.

• 3:12:57David Sims?

  It's definitely not the done thing to when someone is resenting be like, ah, I think I'm gonna come hit you.

• 3:13:02Speaker 04

  And I think, I think the difference is, is like, look, we were all in COVID. There's a lot of shit going on.

• 3:13:08David Sims?

  Oh shit, what's going on?

• 3:13:09Speaker 04

  And I do think it just got, it was amped up so much that I think.

• 3:13:13David Sims?

  Less things to talk about.

• 3:13:14Speaker 04

  Yes. And when I looked at it again or thought about it again, I was like, yes, what you're saying, you should not be charging a stage and slapping anybody in the face.

• 3:13:21David Sims?

  Etiquette, you know?

• 3:13:23Speaker 04

  Right.

• 3:13:23David Sims?

  Don't do that.

• 3:13:23Speaker 04

  But it was viewed as like, this man, oh, like, like, if you were, if you were to hear it, you'd be like, he beat the shit out of this person.

• 3:13:34Griffin Newman?

  There was a live murder.

• 3:13:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:13:36Griffin Newman?

  It was, I, I saw that at Marie Barti's Oscar party.

• 3:13:40David Sims?

  Party, right.

• 3:13:40Griffin Newman?

  And it was mostly.

• 3:13:41David Sims?

  The Barti party?

• 3:13:42Griffin Newman?

  It was, it was a literal Barti party. And it was mostly like film people, people who work in film, people who write about film, people study film. Everyone in there was just like a hardcore movie nerd. And there was an hour and a half of people as if it was like the Zapruder film.

• 3:13:56Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:13:57Griffin Newman?

  Breaking down like, wait, what happened and why?

• 3:14:00Speaker 05

  I wasn't even watching it. I, I mean, I'm like, I'm so out on this stuff.

• 3:14:04David Sims?

  From the Oscars.

• 3:14:04Speaker 05

  I, I really haven't been watching it. And my, one of my like film guy text chains blew up. Hey, are you guys watching this? Did you, was that a bit? Do you think that was a bit?

• 3:14:14Griffin Newman?

  It was all we were debating.

• 3:14:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 3:14:15Griffin Newman?

  It, it felt like there was a collective like hallucination. And until he got up to accept the award, we were like, at some point, we're gonna get some answer.

• 3:14:24Speaker 05

  Closure.

• 3:14:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. And the second he got up and started crying and said like, Richard Williams, protect his family. Everyone just gassed and went, oh my God, it was real. Like he said the first line and we went, oh my God, it was real.

• 3:14:36Speaker 04

  Well, I was, I am friends with Regina and Will Smith, but when she was, so she was hosting that year.

• 3:14:43David Sims?

  She was, she and Schumer, right? We're like, get us on stage. What the fuck? Right?

• 3:14:47Speaker 04

  And so we were, we, the Black Monday. Was on a text chain, all like, kind of rooting on and then.

• 3:14:53David Sims?

  Dude, great Regina.

• 3:14:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, I know.

• 3:14:54David Sims?

  Show's normal.

• 3:14:55Speaker 04

  And then it was like, that I remember, I think if it was, if I'm correct in saying, right, that's a bit, right? And it was like, no, like, we did get verification.

• 3:15:04Griffin Newman?

  Hardcore immediate.

• 3:15:05Speaker 04

  That was not a bit.

• 3:15:06Griffin Newman?

  That must have been an astounding text received from someone in the room.

• 3:15:10Speaker 04

  It was, because it was like, because the way it was also displayed, I remember like, sound dropped out.

• 3:15:16David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 3:15:16Speaker 04

  It was a weird.

• 3:15:17David Sims?

  Camera cut suddenly and right.

• 3:15:19Speaker 04

  And it was like, and then you got up and there was like that shot where it was like, somebody was talking to Will Smith in the corner. It was. Denzel.

• 3:15:25Griffin Newman?

  And Bradley Cooper.

• 3:15:26David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 3:15:27Speaker 04

  Of course.

• 3:15:27David Sims?

  Wow.

• 3:15:28Speaker 05

  And you could only re-watch it on the Australian feed.

• 3:15:31Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 3:15:32Speaker 05

  That was what was weird.

• 3:15:33David Sims?

  I got cracking. This is mental.

• 3:15:36Speaker 05

  That's not a slap.

• 3:15:37David Sims?

  Right.

• 3:15:38Griffin Newman?

  You beat me to it.

• 3:15:39David Sims?

  Number six, just to wrap up, we should do our cones rankings. We've been podcasting for three hours. Number six, of course, this week, new this week, the very good idea of doing the girl in the spider's web. This, let's do a sequel to Girl with a Dragon Tattoo by adapting the fourth book written not by the guy.

• 3:15:54Griffin Newman?

  And an infinitely valuable Cinematrix play. I scored off of it today.

• 3:15:58David Sims?

  Nobody remembers.

• 3:16:00Griffin Newman?

  No one remembers. That doesn't exist.

• 3:16:01David Sims?

  Seven is Nobody's Fool. Is that?

• 3:16:03Griffin Newman?

  That's.

• 3:16:04David Sims?

  Kevin Hart, no, Tiffany Haddish.

• 3:16:05Griffin Newman?

  That's Haddish.

• 3:16:06David Sims?

  Regina, is it? Wait, who is it?

• 3:16:09Speaker 05

  Nobody's Fool, the Paul Newman movie?

• 3:16:10David Sims?

  No, that's the problem.

• 3:16:11Griffin Newman?

  Is it Tika Sumter?

• 3:16:12David Sims?

  Tika Sumter, Tiffany Haddish.

• 3:16:14Griffin Newman?

  And Whoopi Goldberg.

• 3:16:15David Sims?

  Amari Hardwick and Whoopi Goldberg, and she's got a wig on and she's kind of going like this.

• 3:16:19Griffin Newman?

  Whoopi Goldberg.

• 3:16:20David Sims?

  At the foolishness.

• 3:16:21Griffin Newman?

  Whoopi Goldberg has a bit in the trailer that is so fucking funny.

• 3:16:25David Sims?

  This is a Tyler Perry film.

• 3:16:26Griffin Newman?

  It, but it was Tyler Perry at Paramount where he didn't usually make his films.

• 3:16:29David Sims?

  Right. And kind of doing like, what looks like a pretty ordinary rom-com.

• 3:16:32Griffin Newman?

  Right. It was sort of him trying to do more of a like, normal comedy in a Tiffany Haddish vehicle and not the Tyler Perry thing. I don't know if it veers into faith-based lessons towards the end.

• 3:16:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, because I was trying to remember like, that was one of those movies where, again, it's still in the top 10, so it's making money, but it also was like, not.

• 3:16:49Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 3:16:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was not, uh, well.

• 3:16:51Griffin Newman?

  And it was just sold as another Tiffany Haddish movie.

• 3:16:53Speaker 04

  Right.

• 3:16:54Griffin Newman?

  There's a bit where they, I believe Whoopi Goldberg plays her, their sisters and plays their mother, I think. There's a bit where they go to visit the mom and they're yelling at her. And she starts acting like the phone has dropped out and she can't hear them?

• 3:17:08David Sims?

  That sounds funny.

• 3:17:09Griffin Newman?

  And then they go, you're not on the phone. We're talking to you through a window.

• 3:17:12David Sims?

  That's funny.

• 3:17:13Griffin Newman?

  Miming that she can't hear them.

• 3:17:14David Sims?

  That's funny.

• 3:17:15Griffin Newman?

  Really good.

• 3:17:16David Sims?

  I just.

• 3:17:16Griffin Newman?

  I have, that's all I've seen.

• 3:17:17David Sims?

  She's a national treasure.

• 3:17:18Griffin Newman?

  Whoopie rolls.

• 3:17:19David Sims?

  And I always, someone today just posted the famous thing she said on marriage to some interview.

• 3:17:23Griffin Newman?

  I don't want someone sleeping in my bed.

• 3:17:24David Sims?

  I know, it's just, I don't want someone in my house. That's what I think about it all the time. Number eight of the box office is Venom.

• 3:17:32David Sims?

  He's there. Uh, he's been doing great. Number nine is the David Gordon Green Halloween, giant hit. Number 10 is The Hate U Give, which I feel like was, uh, they, you know, hoped for a hit and wasn't really a hit. The young adult, it's a young adult movie based on a sort of a hit book. Yes, and that was, there was a lot, yeah, yeah, yeah. Amandla Sternberg. Yeah. Regina Hall's in that. Yeah. And, uh, I saw it. It's okay. It's very, very serious, very like. It's a, it's a shooting, right? A kid, yes, yes. Very like sort of sensitive, serious, uh, teens wrestling with, uh, deep issues. Uh huh. Movie. It's not very good. Yeah. It's, it's okay. Um, that is that, but Griffin, I know you're looking at your phone for this reason. We, this is not our last episode in this mini series because.

• 3:18:13Griffin Newman?

  Treating the next.

• 3:18:14David Sims?

  The Coens.

• 3:18:15Griffin Newman?

  Three as bonuses.

• 3:18:16David Sims?

  Split up.

• 3:18:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:18:17David Sims?

  And did three movies, which we will cover. Oh, this is, that was the question I was gonna ask, but this, so you. It's not our finale for the Coens. Do them each gets their own, Macbeth gets its own episode? They're all recorded and, okay. Yep. We did them.

• 3:18:29Griffin Newman?

  We have them in the can.

• 3:18:29David Sims?

  Drive Away Dolls, Honey, Don't. Okay. Uh, but we will do our top, uh, our Coens rankings now. Okay, I have done mine as well in the, in the last 10 minutes. Fantastic. I knew, you were playing with your phone and I was like, Jason's up to something.

• 3:18:42Griffin Newman?

  Like feels terrible. I'm looking at this list and it feels wrong, but I.

• 3:18:46David Sims?

  It's crazy.

• 3:18:47Griffin Newman?

  Any move feels like, how, how could I?

• 3:18:49David Sims?

  There's no right answer here.

• 3:18:52Griffin Newman?

  And let me be clear, this is what I'm sort of putting as my ranking of what I consider their best works. Obviously, Hot Sucker Proxy is my favorite film of theirs.

• 3:19:01David Sims?

  You can do favorites?

• 3:19:01Griffin Newman?

  One of my favorite movies.

• 3:19:02David Sims?

  Well, you do what you want.

• 3:19:03Griffin Newman?

  There's a universe, which I put that in number one.

• 3:19:05David Sims?

  Griff, is there a movie before you do your list that rose high during the re-recording of this or that dropped? Or is there anything like that? Like a sort of canonical fave?

• 3:19:16Griffin Newman?

  I wanna say, I mean, but like, it's so arbitrary.

• 3:19:18David Sims?

  It is a little bit.

• 3:19:19Griffin Newman?

  I feel like Raising Arizona dropped a little and Lebowski went up for me.

• 3:19:22David Sims?

  I had the exact same reaction.

• 3:19:25Griffin Newman?

  But I mean, like,

• 3:19:25David Sims?

  But I love them both.

• 3:19:26Griffin Newman?

  Both masterpieces, in my opinion. I have Ladykillers last. I will say, I put Tragedy of Macbeth and Driveway Dolls ahead of Ladykillers.

• 3:19:34David Sims?

  Sure, sure.

• 3:19:35Griffin Newman?

  I put-

• 3:19:35Speaker 05

  Those are not in my rankings.

• 3:19:37David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, get them off.

• 3:19:38Griffin Newman?

  But just, that's for my master ranking.

• 3:19:39David Sims?

  I hear you, I hear you.

• 3:19:40Griffin Newman?

  For the sake of this series.

• 3:19:41David Sims?

  Ladykillers last.

• 3:19:42Griffin Newman?

  Then Intolerable Cruelty.

• 3:19:44David Sims?

  Oh, shit.

• 3:19:45Griffin Newman?

  Now, everything past the, and by the way, I think Intolerable Cruelty is great. Past this point, every movie I'm going to list, sounds like it's an insult to put it this low. And it's truly just an embarrassment of riches. I then have Blood Simple, Scruggs, True Grit.

• 3:20:02David Sims?

  You're True Grit that low? Okay, keep going.

• 3:20:04Griffin Newman?

  This is, I mean, keep going, keep going. Raising Arizona, Miller's Crossing, Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?

• 3:20:10David Sims?

  And so now, that was, that was 11.

• 3:20:12Griffin Newman?

  Right. My 10, Man Who Wasn't There, great movie. 9, Burn After Reading. 8, Lebowski. 7, Barton Fink. 6, Hail Caesar. I put Pod Sucker at 5 with me trying to be objective. But it's number 1 in my heart. But then, there are 4 movies that I just think are stone cold, like, just undeniable masterworks. Number 4, No Country. Number 3, A Serious Man. Number 2, Fargo. Number 1, Inside Luan Davis. That's where I land.

• 3:20:46Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 3:20:47Griffin Newman?

  That's, their best film, in my opinion. Pod Sucker is my favorite. That's the distinction I want.

• 3:20:54David Sims?

  Should I do mine?

• 3:20:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, you should do it.

• 3:20:55David Sims?

  Alright, I have Ladykillers last, then Burn After Reading, sorry. Then Man Who Wasn't There, sorry. Then Buster Scruggs, then Intolerable Cruelty. Uh, all the way up at 14, then Hail Caesar, now we're just in movies I love territory.

• 3:21:08Griffin Newman?

  Man, I put Hail Caesar a lot higher than you.

• 3:21:10David Sims?

  And Oh Brother at 12, Blood Simple 11. My 10 are, 10, 10, Pod Sucker, 9, Raising Arizona, 8, Miller's Crossing, 7, No Country, 6, Luan Davis. My 5 are very different from yours, 5, Big Lebowski, 4, Serious Man, 3, True Grit, all the way up there, 2 Fargo, 1 Barton Fink. That's me. Nobody yell at me.

• 3:21:35Griffin Newman?

  Like, our ranking is, are incredibly different, and yet I'm like, I don't think you're wrong about anything.

• 3:21:40David Sims?

  You're not mad at me.

• 3:21:40Speaker 05

  So mine falls into the truly, um, these are, I cannot separate my true love for some of these from.

• 3:21:51David Sims?

  If it gets allowed.

• 3:21:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, so.

• 3:21:52Griffin Newman?

  The distinction are like millimeter.

• 3:21:54Speaker 05

  Yeah, you know, especially when we get into that top six or seven.

• 3:21:58Griffin Newman?

  Ladykillers is obviously number one with a bullet for you.

• 3:22:00Speaker 05

  Number one, intolerable cruelty, number two. Um, no, Ladykillers, intolerable cruelty are at the bottom for me. Man Who Wasn't There, Buster Scruggs, Burn After Reading. These all could kind of be in any order, but they are all in that lower third. Burn After Reading, and then True Grit is, they're chunked to me. True Grit, Hail Caesar, Oh Brother. Are like that middle category. And then it gets into Blood Simple, Lewin Davis, Raising Arizona, Barton Fink. And then for me, Fargo, A Serious Man, No Country, Lebowski, Miller's Crossing.

• 3:22:44Griffin Newman?

  Miller's Crossing.

• 3:22:44Speaker 05

  Miller's Crossing is my number one, just because it is baked in. It's the movie, it's their movie that I've seen the most.

• 3:22:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:22:51Speaker 05

  And I've seen Lebowski a lot, and I've seen Miller's Crossing more. Owen Burke, our friend Owen Burke.

• 3:22:56Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:22:56Speaker 05

  Watches Miller's Crossing every year on St. Patrick's Day. He told me this years ago, and I've instituted it as well, and it's a blast.

• 3:23:05David Sims?

  That is a great way to.

• 3:23:06Speaker 05

  It's a great revisit, and I just, it's one of those movies that I know every line of. It is, I know every corner. I love that movie. Even though I know that many of these movies are inarguably better movies, uh, No Country especially, Fargo especially. Miller's Crossing just has its hooks in me, as does Lebowski. Lebowski is so baked into, like, when I need a feel-good watch to just disappear into, it is always Lebowski.

• 3:23:35Griffin Newman?

  You had Fargo at three?

• 3:23:36Speaker 05

  I had Fargo at. Five.

• 3:23:39Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 3:23:39Speaker 05

  I have Miller's Crossing is one, Lebowski is two, No Country is three, A Serious Man is four.

• 3:23:45Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 3:23:45Speaker 05

  Cause I just think that is dynamite.

• 3:23:46Griffin Newman?

  Incredible film.

• 3:23:47Speaker 05

  And Fargo is five.

• 3:23:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:23:48Speaker 05

  And I mean, like a lot of these, I couldn't, if you said to me reorder those five in a different, I could happily own it, you know?

• 3:23:56Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:23:56Speaker 05

  Um, these are all unimpeachably just masterpieces by my estimation.

• 3:24:00Griffin Newman?

  I agree with that. Yeah.

• 3:24:02Speaker 04

  This is too quick for me to do it. I think that that, that, and I, but I won't, but I think I want to take a moment and say that when you ask men's health, what their ranking of the Coen Brothers.

• 3:24:13David Sims?

  And I do appreciate you.

• 3:24:14Speaker 04

  Yes. Yes. And I, this is.

• 3:24:15David Sims?

  I do appreciate you asking.

• 3:24:16Griffin Newman?

  I've been asking and they haven't gone back to me.

• 3:24:18Speaker 04

  They rate them from one to six abs?

• 3:24:20Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. It's an abs scale.

• 3:24:22Speaker 04

  Uh, you know, the number one for them is, is going to be Fargo. That's men's health right now. A great, a great one. I'm gonna, but I'm gonna maybe, uh, show you like where they go a little bit off the rails. Maybe, you know, um, uh, Vulture put intolerable cruelty in the top 10.

• 3:24:39Speaker 04

  Yeah. Uh, I think that everybody has to kind of do that. Um, Men's Health did put Burn After Reading number six.

• 3:24:44David Sims?

  You know, some people love Burn After Reading a lot.

• 3:24:46Speaker 05

  I really, I have no problems with Burn After Reading.

• 3:24:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:24:50Speaker 04

  Before Sirius.

• 3:24:51Griffin Newman?

  That's a little wild.

• 3:24:52Speaker 05

  That's crazy.

• 3:24:53Griffin Newman?

  I would agree.

• 3:24:53Speaker 05

  The, the last, the J K Simmons, David Rashy scene of that movie is incredible.

• 3:25:00Griffin Newman?

  Lights out.

• 3:25:01David Sims?

  It absolutely makes the movie for me. I will say also just to note, like ranking Coen Brothers movies is like the quickest way, at least back when Twitter was somewhat usable, to just get everyone frothing. You would just be kind of like, I think Barton Fink's my favorite Coens. And then something, you know, one hour later, people are like, what's your dress? I'm gonna come kill you. Uh, like, and even though we're all arguing over all movies that we all love, basically.

• 3:25:25Griffin Newman?

  I just got tracking notice from anthrax.com.

• 3:25:29Speaker 05

  I love it. So I remember seeing Barton Fink in the theater and being like, what the fuck is going on?

• 3:25:34David Sims?

  I am jealous.

• 3:25:34Speaker 05

  This is incredible, I think. Like, I just, like, the John Goodman performance, because at the time, I hadn't seen him do anything like that.

• 3:25:43Griffin Newman?

  It was Dan Carr.

• 3:25:44Speaker 05

  He was, it was unbelievable.

• 3:25:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:25:47Speaker 05

  You know, um, what a, I loved that movie.

• 3:25:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, no, it's, it's like, what order do I put five star masterpieces?

• 3:25:53Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 3:25:54Speaker 04

  I'm gonna make a shocking admission, never saw Barton Fink.

• 3:25:56David Sims?

  Oh, well, you know what, Paul? Now you have the best kind of homework.

• 3:26:00Speaker 04

  Yes. Oh, that, that, that is, that is, that is, I don't know what it is. I've seen every single Coen Brothers movie.

• 3:26:06Speaker 05

  It's a wonder, you have such a good one.

• 3:26:08Griffin Newman?

  Okay, great night out.

• 3:26:09David Sims?

  And as someone, Paul, who works in Hollywood and I feel like knows a lot about how it works and has a lot of opinions on how it should work, Barton Fink.

• 3:26:15Speaker 05

  And I'm surprised, just as a Wallace Berry wrestling fan.

• 3:26:19David Sims?

  You haven't watched wrestling.

• 3:26:21Speaker 04

  But it was, it was one of those movies that I felt like, oh, you know what? I, I do this sometimes. I'm like, I'll wait until I can see it properly.

• 3:26:29Speaker 05

  Yeah, I get that.

• 3:26:30Speaker 04

  Right, you know, and I'm like, maybe I can see.

• 3:26:31Speaker 05

  I didn't see the Godfather movies until I saw them at Film Forum in New York, so as an adult. Because I wanted to wait until I could see it in a theater. I knew it would matter.

• 3:26:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:26:41David Sims?

  I watched it on my Apple Watch. That's so cool.

• 3:26:44Griffin Newman?

  You want to see Barton Fink and then you hear really bad feedback from Bart Simpson and his friends. And they just completely discouraged you from going. And Naked Lunch, that's why you've never seen Naked Lunch either.

• 3:26:53Speaker 04

  The same thing. Bart really shit on that one. Uh, it's also great to see, like, I have a painting of, uh, Hudsucker Proxy in my house.

• 3:27:01Griffin Newman?

  Hell, yes.

• 3:27:01Speaker 04

  I love it. I love it so much. And it was one of those movies that I felt like when I saw it, it, I, I liking it made me, like, because everyone would be like, oh, Raising Arizona, Raising Arizona, Raising Arizona. It's like, and you felt like, oh, there's no, but I like this.

• 3:27:14David Sims?

  Nobody's arguing for this one.

• 3:27:16Speaker 04

  And I love that.

• 3:27:16Speaker 05

  I was, see, I was part of the, because I'm like a full step older than you guys.

• 3:27:20Speaker 04

  Right.

• 3:27:21Speaker 05

  Hudsucker, to me, felt like a betrayal.

• 3:27:23David Sims?

  That was the, you're rubbing your hands, you can't wait the Coens made a big movie, and then you're like, what the fuck was that?

• 3:27:27Speaker 05

  What the fuck is this?

• 3:27:28Griffin Newman?

  And before the Ladykillers and Tower of Cruelty back to back, it was like, that was the consensus, obviously.

• 3:27:33Speaker 05

  It was a falter. It felt like a misstep.

• 3:27:36David Sims?

  Have you watched it?

• 3:27:37Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, many times, many. And I think it's wonderful, but in that moment.

• 3:27:41David Sims?

  I can totally understand.

• 3:27:42Speaker 05

  I was like, what the fuck, guys?

• 3:27:44Griffin Newman?

  Can I say this as a closing statement? Cause we recorded our episode and then we, Ben, Marie and I went out to LA and introduced a screening with the American Cinematag. Did this intro and I saw it again, projected on 35. Anytime I see it screening, I see it, right? But these cons movies, as we talk about, every time you watch them, I get different stuff out of them. They go up and down in my rankings at levels of greatness, right? But certain elements jump out to me more. I have different readings. Maybe I get certain plot details wrong because I'm paying attention to one thing. But watching Hudsucker on the big screen that time, I like something clicked in it for me that I'd never really thought about before. And especially knowing that it was a script they wrote early with Raimi that they couldn't get made. And with all their clout, they're like, we get to do this.

• 3:28:29Griffin Newman?

  Is I think that movie is about like how to become successful without becoming an asshole.

• 3:28:35David Sims?

  Right, right, right, right. You can't let go of the, yeah.

• 3:28:38Griffin Newman?

  And these guys who people often mischaracterize as being very judgmental of their characters and condescending. I'm like, the way they treat Norville in the section of the movie where he becomes full of his own shit and high on his own supply. Is like the most disdain they have shown for any character. Like even more so in a way than like Anton Chigurh, right? Where they're like, this is the absolute cautionary tale of we just like making hula hoops and we want everyone to enjoy hula hoops. And how do we do that in a sense to levels of success without becoming this guy? And needing to like fall off the side of a building and reclaim our humanity.

• 3:29:15David Sims?

  Right.

• 3:29:15Griffin Newman?

  And I think you like step back and you look and you're like, these guys had this fucking career working together for 30 plus years. Made like basically 20 masterpieces and just like stayed true to themselves the entire fucking time.

• 3:29:29Griffin Newman?

  And even like, say whatever you want about Lady Killers. That is very much their movie.

• 3:29:34David Sims?

  We have never done a career as.

• 3:29:36Griffin Newman?

  Nothing's like that.

• 3:29:37David Sims?

  Shot through this one.

• 3:29:38Speaker 05

  Here we are at the end of your series.

• 3:29:40David Sims?

  Yes, pretty much.

• 3:29:41Speaker 05

  At the end of your series, talking about a movie that while we might quibble with, you know, it might be a little uneven segment to segment, vignette to vignette.

• 3:29:50David Sims?

  Whatever.

• 3:29:50Speaker 05

  There was still so much in this that was wonderful. Like, have you?

• 3:29:54David Sims?

  For another four hours.

• 3:29:54Speaker 05

  Have you ever done a series that is, because I feel like by the end of most series, you guys are cooked because now you're stuck with the dregs.

• 3:30:03Griffin Newman?

  And this was as long a series as we've done, basically?

• 3:30:06David Sims?

  Pretty much.

• 3:30:06Griffin Newman?

  I mean, the solos are a little closer to being dregs for us.

• 3:30:09David Sims?

  Yeah, right. Get ready for those three episodes where we are beginning to grasp.

• 3:30:13Speaker 05

  That's, yeah, but that's a different story. You could have not done those or done those on the Patreon as all three of, or all four of, or three of those in one episode. Like, they are not the same.

• 3:30:24David Sims?

  Maybe these are good ideas that we should have listened to.

• 3:30:26Speaker 04

  But now, do you, do you feel like in those three films, or do you have any research and not to tease this for the audience, that they give each other notes on their solo films?

• 3:30:36David Sims?

  No, I don't think so.

• 3:30:37Griffin Newman?

  Have heard nothing.

• 3:30:37David Sims?

  I've never heard anything like that.

• 3:30:39Speaker 04

  That's interesting to me. To be like, has such a close, because I'm also fascinated with the Safdie's too. And it's like, oh, I don't know.

• 3:30:47David Sims?

  Dude, the Safdie's, it's having seen both those movies, it's the same thing as what the Coens were like. I see what each was bringing to the table.

• 3:30:53Speaker 04

  Right.

• 3:30:54David Sims?

  And I think both of the movies they made a loader are really good. And I actually like them more than the Coens. But you're just like, right, this energy is here and this energy is over here. And they used to be together and now we're watching them.

• 3:31:04Speaker 05

  Do we know anything about the movie that Coens are working on together again?

• 3:31:09David Sims?

  Except that they're working on something.

• 3:31:10Speaker 05

  Just that they are.

• 3:31:11Griffin Newman?

  And that it's maybe a horror adjacent, but.

• 3:31:14David Sims?

  Heard that, but who knows?

• 3:31:15Griffin Newman?

  Knowing them, that also might be a loose starting point and it's turned into something else.

• 3:31:19David Sims?

  It's exciting to consider.

• 3:31:20Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:31:21David Sims?

  Another movie, but if this is their last movie, which is not impossible.

• 3:31:25Griffin Newman?

  It's impossible.

• 3:31:25David Sims?

  I, I don't mind it as a last movie. Yeah.

• 3:31:28Griffin Newman?

  I don't either. I think it's a, I think it's a good final film. I hope we are wrong about that.

• 3:31:32Speaker 04

  A bunch of funny shorts, I mean, short stories. That's all their whole filmography is funny little vignettes. I mean, they're movies, but, but I feel like that's what, it's kind of encapsulates everything about them. I love it as it.

• 3:31:44Speaker 05

  What, what, I mean.

• 3:31:46Speaker 04

  Sorry, we made you.

• 3:31:46David Sims?

  I have to go.

• 3:31:47Speaker 05

  No, let's wrap it.

• 3:31:48Speaker 04

  We have to, we literally have to do a show.

• 3:31:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, we gotta do a show.

• 3:31:51Griffin Newman?

  I'll also say, I saw, I saw Ethan Cohen on the street yesterday.

• 3:31:55Speaker 05

  Yesterday?

• 3:31:56Griffin Newman?

  Right before recording this, our final record. He looked so fucking cool.

• 3:32:01Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:32:01Griffin Newman?

  Cause I think of him as being like the wormier little one. He was wearing sunglasses, leather jacket, cock of the walk.

• 3:32:09Speaker 05

  Where?

• 3:32:09Griffin Newman?

  I had like five inches on him, easy. But he looked cool. Yeah, I just little walking around like the fucking Flatiron.

• 3:32:16Speaker 05

  I love that.

• 3:32:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, Nomad. Looked rad as hell. Uh, thank you guys for being here.

• 3:32:20Speaker 04

  Oh, what a pleasure, what a pleasure.

• 3:32:21Griffin Newman?

  Glad we made it work. It was, I knew you guys had some New York shows on the books.

• 3:32:25Speaker 05

  What a delight.

• 3:32:26Griffin Newman?

  We were gonna do this episode guest list and I threw out to Sims, is it crazy if we see if they're free? And knowing very often, you guys are so busy.

• 3:32:32Speaker 04

  I literally canceled everything to be.

• 3:32:35Griffin Newman?

  Six hours to give an episode its proper space.

• 3:32:37Speaker 05

  Thrilled to have been able to be included in this, uh, what is, I think, inarguably the best series you guys have done. Both in terms of films and episodes. I think this is great.

• 3:32:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, amazing. Yeah, really, truly fun. And it like, I love this too because it's a, it's a chance to revisit.

• 3:32:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, the rewatches have been great.

• 3:32:57Griffin Newman?

  There's no better rewatch assignment than throwing all these movies out. There's no.

• 3:33:01Speaker 05

  Been a blast.

• 3:33:02David Sims?

  You guys have to do some dog shit next time.

• 3:33:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah, you're doing dog shit next time. Uh, is there anything specific you guys wanna plug?

• 3:33:08Speaker 05

  How did this get made?

• 3:33:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:33:09Speaker 05

  You know, podcast.

• 3:33:10David Sims?

  Still going strong, baby.

• 3:33:11Speaker 05

  Absolutely. You're 15 or 16 now. I can't remember.

• 3:33:14David Sims?

  I remember listening to that burlesque episode. That was one of the first.

• 3:33:17Speaker 04

  That was the first one, like December.

• 3:33:19Griffin Newman?

  When is Old Dogs in the first five?

• 3:33:21Speaker 05

  Oh, it's in the early ones. It's a, it's the pilot that we never aired and then we did do it.

• 3:33:27Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 3:33:27Speaker 05

  Like later.

• 3:33:28David Sims?

  But burlesque, just at my old job, was it oh nine?

• 3:33:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, so we, this December will be 15 years.

• 3:33:35David Sims?

  My rocks.

• 3:33:36Speaker 05

  So that's.

• 3:33:36Speaker 02

  Congrats on the iHeart Awards.

• 3:33:38Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 3:33:39David Sims?

  Decade and a half of dreams.

• 3:33:40Speaker 04

  You know, look, this is, you know.

• 3:33:41Griffin Newman?

  We, we, we went out to the iHeart Awards in Austin, Texas. We're all dressed up. We think they're about to present our category. It basically happens in a montage in between awards. They go, uh, like, what was it? It was like James. And ask you to raise a glass to podcast. Uh, word for best ad read goes to Conan O'Brien, a word for best, uh, best film TV podcast. How did this get me? And we're just like, oh, they didn't even present it.

• 3:34:02Speaker 05

  Oh, my God.

• 3:34:02Griffin Newman?

  I assume, oh, they didn't present it because they asked you guys and you weren't going to show up. And I text you guys, congrats, and you said, on what?

• 3:34:09Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:34:10Griffin Newman?

  And we said, you just won, and you said, one what? And I was like, the iHeart, and you were like, it, for what category?

• 3:34:17Speaker 05

  No awareness whatsoever.

• 3:34:19Griffin Newman?

  None.

• 3:34:19Speaker 05

  None. Zero awareness.

• 3:34:21Speaker 04

  Now, I was at the first ever Astro Podcast Awards, and we could talk about that later.

• 3:34:26Griffin Newman?

  Oh, hey.

• 3:34:27Speaker 05

  Um, I want to thank producer Ben for helping me, helping me, uh, with the, uh, I've got a bone, uh, segment. And thanks to Zach Cherry for, uh, uh, letting me do it. And

• 3:34:37Griffin Newman?

  And maybe thank me for the He-Man sunglasses as well.

• 3:34:40Speaker 05

  Thanks to Griff for the sunglasses, even though he didn't know he was doing that for the bit. Um, what a blast.

• 3:34:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:34:47Speaker 05

  What, and thanks to, uh, Emma, uh, Erdbrink for, uh, helping us with the, uh,

• 3:34:51Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yes.

• 3:34:52Speaker 05

  With the tune.

• 3:34:53Griffin Newman?

  Totally.

• 3:34:53Speaker 05

  Uh, and, and Ben, guys, by the way, just, just listen to those Doughboys. Those stupid fucking Doughboys.

• 3:34:59David Sims?

  They need the Doughboys.

• 3:35:00Griffin Newman?

  They need the bomb.

• 3:35:00David Sims?

  They're doing great, too. Another long running guys.

• 3:35:02Speaker 05

  Action Boys, all the

• 3:35:04Griffin Newman?

  Action Boys.

• 3:35:05Speaker 05

  Pod Boys.

• 3:35:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:35:06David Sims?

  Sloppy Boys.

• 3:35:07Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 3:35:08Speaker 05

  No. Jerky Boys, did you say, Ben?

• 3:35:09Griffin Newman?

  I said Sloppy Boys.

• 3:35:10Speaker 05

  A Sloppy Boys.

• 3:35:11Griffin Newman?

  But also listen to the Jerky Boys.

• 3:35:12Speaker 05

  Jerky Boys as well.

• 3:35:13David Sims?

  Revisit. You know what? I'm sure it's aged beautifully.

• 3:35:16Griffin Newman?

  Uh, next week is Tragedy in Macbeth.

• 3:35:18David Sims?

  Next week is the tragedy

• 3:35:19Griffin Newman?

  With our friend Dana Schwartz.

• 3:35:20David Sims?

  Dana Schwartz.

• 3:35:21Griffin Newman?

  Returning to the show for another witch film.

• 3:35:23David Sims?

  That's right.

• 3:35:24Griffin Newman?

  Yep.

• 3:35:24David Sims?

  Uh, we gotta plug holes, but not plug, but you know, holes, dig them. Oh, and, but also the movie.

• 3:35:30Griffin Newman?

  But when you say plug holes, it sounds like you're telling people to fill them in.

• 3:35:32David Sims?

  No, don't do that.

• 3:35:33Griffin Newman?

  Be clear in your language.

• 3:35:34David Sims?

  Create them. Right, so you don't like one of those senators who like fills potholes or whatever? You're like, I'm not voting for that guy.

• 3:35:39Griffin Newman?

  No, you got a Joe, a Joe Dirt philosophy of life's a, a hole, dig it?

• 3:35:44David Sims?

  Okay, we are done. I'm sure this is ranking in our top five length.

• 3:35:48Griffin Newman?

  At this point, who knows?

• 3:35:49Speaker 05

  No, man. No, there was episodes of just this series that were very long.

• 3:35:54David Sims?

  And Leslie, of course.

• 3:35:55Speaker 05

  And Leslie Headland is gonna never, that will never, the only person capable of, uh, doing that is Alex Ross Perry.

• 3:36:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:36:02Speaker 05

  Uh, great job in Pavements, by the way.

• 3:36:03Griffin Newman?

  Oh, thank you, that was fun to do. What if I promised to make the ad reads really long on this?

• 3:36:08Speaker 05

  Okay, okay.

• 3:36:10Speaker 04

  But we don't like the- We already did the big trick of the- Right, the juicy-

• 3:36:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, the hidden trick.

• 3:36:14Speaker 05

  No, I'm not, I'm not trying to make, I'm not trying to make waves here.

• 3:36:17Griffin Newman?

  Harp was so angry when he discovered that.

• 3:36:19Speaker 05

  Did he, was he?

• 3:36:20Griffin Newman?

  He texted us when the episode dropped and was like, I guess I need to like concede the belt.

• 3:36:24Speaker 05

  Oh, that's funny.

• 3:36:25Griffin Newman?

  And then a week later was like, there's 40 minutes of silence, these fucking-

• 3:36:30Speaker 05

  Oh, it was so good.

• 3:36:32Griffin Newman?

  Thank you for being here.

• 3:36:33Speaker 05

  So much fun.

• 3:36:33Speaker 04

  Thank you for having us.

• 3:36:34Griffin Newman?

  Excited to see you guys talk about Monkey Bone tonight.

• 3:36:36Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 3:36:37Speaker 04

  Please, this is great.

• 3:36:37Griffin Newman?

  And as always.

• 3:36:39Speaker 05

  Smell you later, fartheads.

• 3:36:41Griffin Newman?

  There we go.

• 3:36:43Speaker 05

  I mean, I intro'd us, I might as well outro us.

• 3:36:51Speaker 02

  Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hostly. Our creative producer is Marie Bardis Salinas. And our associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by JJ Birch. Our theme song is by Lain Montgomery and The Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Holly Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to BlankCheckPod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check Special Features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes.

• 3:37:36Speaker 02

  Follow us on social at Blank Check Pod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook, on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.