Hail, Caesar! with Shirley Li

Would that it twere so simple to lasso that lazy ol’ moon! This week, we’re chatting about all the studio shenanigans in Hail, Caesar! with our pal Shirley Li. Speaking of Shirley, we all knew she was skilled at getting David “The Dog” Sims off the leash, but did you know that she also attended researcher JJ’s wedding?! Lore drop! Join us as we unpack the careers of Channing Tatum and Alden Ehrenreich, gush over the gorgeous near-Technicolor cinematography, and celebrate the love of da moviesh that comes through so clearly in this film. Read Shirley's work https://www.theatlantic.com/author/shirley-li/ Sign up for Check Book https://blankcheckpod.substack.com/welcome, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. http://www.patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter https://x.com/blankcheckpod?lang=en, Instagram https://www.instagram.com/blankcheckpod/?hl=en, Threads https://www.threads.net/@blankcheckpod?xmt=AQGzctAh4mbWTwYzCV1pzNT6AMV9o99EOfymi8TLR5mTde0 and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/blankcheckpodcast/! Buy some real nerdy merch https://kinshipgoods.com/blankcheck Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/blankies/s/gpcOkQr8Sv or Discord https://discord.gg/Q6YGSR3JrA For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com https://www.blankcheckpod.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Griffin Newman?

  David. Yep. We did a live show. Yeah, remember? Ranking Scorsese at the Bell House in Brooklyn. We did the definitive power ranking of Martin Scorsese things. Uh, it was so fun. Uh, it was very silly. Ben and Marie were with us and they're with us right now. Yeah, hey.

• 0:18Speaker 01

  Hey, everyone, or should I say, oh? Oh.

• 0:22Griffin Newman?

  And thanks to our friends at Dynasty Typewriter. It was livestreamed for the first time ever. But also, the replay is still up there, but only until October 30th. So just a few more days. Yes. You can get it at dynasty.tv. Dynasty.tv. It's $20. We had a blast and the Spreadmaster really got to work. Oh, yeah. I was moving things around. Laptop was on.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  I don't know if I'd have seen you that happy.

• 0:48Griffin Newman?

  You were thrilled. You were like a pick and share. I was locked in. Yeah, very locked in and you were funny. Thank you. You were funny. You were also funny. Oh, thank you. And if you want to see like, you know, Griffin's shine box on camera, it's the only way to see it. You might see me shine Marie's shoes. Exactly.

• 1:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, if you're into that sort of content.

• 1:07Griffin Newman?

  If that gets you off.

• 1:09Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:10Griffin Newman?

  So once again, that's at dynasty.tv.

• 1:39Griffin Newman?

  You're gonna do it because you're an actor and that's what you do. Just like the director does what he does and the writer and the script girl and the guy who claps the slate. And you're gonna do it because the podcast has worth. And if you have worth and you have worth, if you serve the podcast and you're never gonna forget that again. It's so good.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  I'm gonna cry.

• 1:56Griffin Newman?

  Uh, should we take it again? Yeah. I stumbled on the one line. Do you have any, any note? Do you have any, what, what do you think? More trippingly? I think just like with more. Roof. Roofal. Okay. And I'll do a mirthless chuckle at the beginning. Oh, yeah, please. Ready? Yeah.

• 2:15Griffin Newman?

  I was a little too small. Let me try that again.

• 2:20Griffin Newman?

  You're going to do it because you're an actor and that's what you do. Just like the director does what he does and the writer and the script girl and the guy who claps the slate. You're gonna do it because the podcast has worth. And you have worth if you serve the podcast and you're never gonna forget that again. Is that too rueful? No, that was great. And the cough was good. I think that was good that we captured that. David has been sick for six months, it feels like.

• 2:43David Sims?

  Since the live show.

• 2:44Griffin Newman?

  Since the live show.

• 2:45David Sims?

  Yeah, I like got sick right after the live show and then I was like, I guess I'm not sick anymore. And then I was like, I'm sick again. Is it the same or is it new? I think it's new.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  It's JJ brought it.

• 2:56Griffin Newman?

  Jay, you're right. It is JJ's disease.

• 2:58David Sims?

  You know what? Now that we actually have someone who knew JJ when he was

• 3:01Griffin Newman?

  Wait, what?

• 3:02David Sims?

  Awful teenager, essentially.

• 3:04Griffin Newman?

  I forgot this part of the lore.

• 3:06David Sims?

  Our guest went to his wedding.

• 3:10David Sims?

  To whatever fool married him.

• 3:12Speaker 01

  Which is the last time I've seen JJ.

• 3:15Griffin Newman?

  Shirley, here's my question.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  You guys have seen JJ before I have.

• 3:19Griffin Newman?

  Yes, but we've also only seen him two times ever in our life.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  Hi JJ. I've shouted out JJ every time I've been on and I feel like it led to this point.

• 3:27David Sims?

  JJ literally, I literally got in touch with JJ because Shirley was like, hey, can my annoying friend like DM you on Twitter?

• 3:34Speaker 01

  I never said annoying.

• 3:35Griffin Newman?

  Can my annoying friend ruin your lives forever?

• 3:37David Sims?

  It was basically not annoying, but sort of like, hey, my friend's like a huge fan. Is it okay if I like?

• 3:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, Shirley was like, mind if I what about Bob you?

• 3:45Speaker 01

  I asked for consent when having people to group chats.

• 3:48Griffin Newman?

  We love JJ, but I have a question for you, Shirley.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  Uh oh.

• 3:51Griffin Newman?

  Because someone needs to take responsibility for this. Did you know that JJ was hot or was he not hot back when you knew him? Because you should have warned us and we shouldn't have hired him.

• 4:01Speaker 01

  He was telling me that his trip to New York has involved, what was it, like a startling number of people telling him how tall he is?

• 4:07Griffin Newman?

  People are thirst trapping and he's a fucking tall drink of water.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  I mean, I always knew JJ was cute. JJ, you're a cutie.

• 4:13Griffin Newman?

  He's just fucking.

• 4:15David Sims?

  He's a good looking guy.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  All of my friends are hot, including the three of you. Do you feel better?

• 4:21Griffin Newman?

  I appreciate that, but here's the thing.

• 4:23David Sims?

  You're a journalist and so your responsibility is to the truth.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:27Griffin Newman?

  I am just gonna say this candidly.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  To my 20 million readers.

• 4:30Griffin Newman?

  Yes, I appreciate you saying that, but I'm gonna say this candidly. AJ? Alan Smithy and JJ are all so much hotter than the three of us and it sucks.

• 4:41David Sims?

  They're good looking guys.

• 4:41Griffin Newman?

  It sucks. It sucks that the three guys who are not primarily

• 4:45David Sims?

  God, you're so mad.

• 4:46Griffin Newman?

  on mic are so fucking handsome.

• 4:48Speaker 01

  My gosh.

• 4:48David Sims?

  I think editing just puts you in some kind of like great like workout. Like they're all in good shape.

• 4:53Griffin Newman?

  They all got great hair.

• 4:54David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 4:55Griffin Newman?

  They all got good posture.

• 4:56David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 4:57Griffin Newman?

  I don't know.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  It's not a competition, Griff.

• 5:00David Sims?

  The whole thing with JJ.

• 5:02Griffin Newman?

  I serve the podcast because the podcast has worth and that's what it's about.

• 5:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:05David Sims?

  I don't know if you would agree with me or not, Shirley Lee, who we haven't introduced yet.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  That's okay.

• 5:10Griffin Newman?

  And we won't introduce her for one.

• 5:11David Sims?

  Yeah, right.

• 5:12Griffin Newman?

  It's gonna be a while.

• 5:13David Sims?

  Shirley Lee, my close friend.

• 5:15Griffin Newman?

  Well, please, don't, don't even get close to introducing her.

• 5:18David Sims?

  Right.

• 5:18Griffin Newman?

  But that is the main credit you want to be introduced to.

• 5:20David Sims?

  I'd like to introduce my friend Shirley Lee, who works with me at Atlantic, but we haven't introduced her yet.

• 5:23Griffin Newman?

  No, not to the podcast.

• 5:25David Sims?

  JJ, you know, online and sort of in his communications comes off like a little shy or more introverted, I suppose.

• 5:33Griffin Newman?

  And then he's got that BDE in person.

• 5:36David Sims?

  Right. We're like, hey, so JJ, like, hi, nice to meet you finally for IRL. So the show's tomorrow and like, just, you're cool with us like bringing you on stage and like doing bits with you essentially.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  I'm imagining your mouth's like agape, like wide open.

• 5:51Griffin Newman?

  We were, we were worried

• 5:52David Sims?

  Hey, yeah, yeah.

• 5:53Griffin Newman?

  that we were going to be

• 5:55David Sims?

  We're just like, hey.

• 5:56Griffin Newman?

  doing something cruel by even asking him to appear on stage.

• 5:59David Sims?

  Are you actually down for this?

• 6:00Griffin Newman?

  He's gonna be a nervous wreck.

• 6:00David Sims?

  And JJ's like, yeah, it's fine. I'll do that. I've, I've lectured in front of people at college and I'm like, oh, yeah, sure. I mean, I guess it's sort of like that. And then like,

• 6:09Griffin Newman?

  He walks on stage like fucking Arsenio Wolf Whistle.

• 6:12David Sims?

  Walks on stage, everyone's going ballistic. He does everything perfectly. And then where I'm like, I'm like, this guy doesn't want to get off the stage and not like, uh, he needs like, he, he's drinking and he's just kind of like, yeah, I'm chill up here as long as you need me.

• 6:24Griffin Newman?

  We called Sandman to give him the cane and tap dance him off the stage and Sandman was like, no, I like this guy.

• 6:29David Sims?

  Yes, him and tried to get me off. I'm like, wait, what's going on? And, uh, and then like he walks off stage and afterwards he's like, that was fun. And then he's like tweeting like, you know, what a great moment in my life. And I'm like, the chillist IRL.

• 6:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  JJ is the chillist person.

• 6:47Griffin Newman?

  Texting with him is not a chill experience. And I was just like, oh my God, he's gonna be.

• 6:52David Sims?

  Me and airplane, you know, sweating meme.

• 6:54Griffin Newman?

  Right. He's gonna be fucking like Luca Barazzi preparing to meet Don Corleone, having dinner with him. And then we, I show up and it was the energy of like, and you are.

• 7:04Speaker 01

  Oh, I, uh, yeah, I don't want JJ to have the same fate as Luca. But JJ, yeah, is the, is the chillest person on the planet.

• 7:12David Sims?

  But Luca lived a good life, right?

• 7:13Speaker 01

  I suppose.

• 7:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 7:14David Sims?

  How old's Luca Brozzi, do you think, when he fucking gets absolutely murdered?

• 7:18Speaker 01

  I can't tell ages.

• 7:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. And I'll tell you, look, JJ's not gonna have the same fate as Luca Brozzi. Luca Brozzi was murdered and JJ is only fired.

• 7:25Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm sorry. I thought this was a mob.

• 7:27Griffin Newman?

  It is, in a way.

• 7:28David Sims?

  It's true.

• 7:29Griffin Newman?

  Kinda. I mean, it's kinda like Hail Caesar. It's like, right, does it take organized crime in a form? Illegalize organized crime rank?

• 7:38David Sims?

  Context clues, context clues, according to Google says it's reasonable estimate he was in his early 50s.

• 7:45Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 7:45David Sims?

  Luca Brozzi.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  Okay, so I was pretty far off.

• 7:47Griffin Newman?

  Had those city miles on him.

• 7:48David Sims?

  Yeah, I mean, it feels like Luca Brozzi's had like, exactly, like, kind of a crazy life, like, yeah.

• 7:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 7:54David Sims?

  He's done some stuff.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  He's seen things.

• 7:56Griffin Newman?

  Like the Cheers meme, though. If you told me Luca Brozzi was like 26.

• 8:00David Sims?

  Right. Who isn't in Cheers? It's like Norm is like, right, Norm's five.

• 8:05Griffin Newman?

  At the start of Cheers.

• 8:06Speaker 01

  He just graduated kindergarten.

• 8:07David Sims?

  Everyone's like 28 years old.

• 8:08Griffin Newman?

  Everyone other than Nicholas Concento was under 37.

• 8:11David Sims?

  Right. And even Coach is only 42.

• 8:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 8:14David Sims?

  Right. He's like, I'm old. I mean, like, it's kinda that vibe back then, right?

• 8:18Griffin Newman?

  I think he was like 52. He wasn't even that old.

• 8:21David Sims?

  Oh, God.

• 8:21Griffin Newman?

  Uh, Ratzenberger was the oldest looking man who has ever lived. And you're like, they plucked him out of high school? This is Blank Check with Griffin. I'm Griffin. This is a really good intro.

• 8:32David Sims?

  Nicholas Concento died at the age of 61.

• 8:34Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 8:34David Sims?

  It's like such a bummer.

• 8:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 8:36David Sims?

  He was just in his 50s on Cheers.

• 8:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. And he was already in bad state. They offered him the party, didn't wanna do it because he said, like, I'm too old. My mind is going. I don't think I have the strength for it. And they were like, you're 57. And he was right.

• 8:47David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 8:49Griffin Newman?

  Uh, he's incredible on that show.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  Wow, what a note to start on.

• 8:51Griffin Newman?

  This is like a perfect, uh, intro to scare off any new listeners.

• 8:55David Sims?

  Yeah, sorry. Who's jumping on with the Hail Caesar hat?

• 9:00Griffin Newman?

  Our own internal fucking lore. But here's the thing. I'll build to this point. It's Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

• 9:06David Sims?

  David.

• 9:07Griffin Newman?

  It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers, and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce, baby. I was trying to think of a serves the picture thing, but I couldn't do it.

• 9:25Griffin Newman?

  It's a mini-series on the films of the Coen Brothers, Joel and Ethan Coen.

• 9:29David Sims?

  That's right.

• 9:30Griffin Newman?

  It is called Pod Country for Old Casts.

• 9:32David Sims?

  Probably. We assume.

• 9:34Griffin Newman?

  Uh oh. We actually can't remember. There's no way to double check at this point. And people are just gonna have to listen to four months of us second guessing ourselves every time we say it.

• 9:44Griffin Newman?

  But today, we're talking about Hail Caesar.

• 9:46David Sims?

  Yes.

• 9:47Griffin Newman?

  Which it's funny to think sort of feels like their last film together.

• 9:53David Sims?

  Right, because Scruggs is the next one.

• 9:54Griffin Newman?

  Because of the weird nature of Scruggs, and Scruggs being like, was this meant to be a TV show? Was this designed to short films? It was released as a film, but that was like a very last second switch.

• 10:05Griffin Newman?

  And this does sort of feel like a retirement film in an odd way, even though it certainly didn't seem like it at the time.

• 10:10David Sims?

  No, but I know what you mean in terms of like, it's a sort of farewell to movies or whatever. Yeah.

• 10:17Griffin Newman?

  The way Ethan and Joel has talked about Ethan's burnout and just being like, I need to take a breather.

• 10:23David Sims?

  Right.

• 10:23Griffin Newman?

  This feels like a movie of guys who have just been like, working nonstop and are sort of like, why do we care about movies?

• 10:30Speaker 01

  Why do we care about art? Is there any worth in what we do?

• 10:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes, and it like comes to a place of like confidence, but also a place where it feels like, maybe I'm ready to step away.

• 10:40David Sims?

  Right.

• 10:40Griffin Newman?

  Is that my final statement?

• 10:41David Sims?

  Ethan's like, yeah, what motivates me now? Lesbians.

• 10:45Griffin Newman?

  Yes, ding-dos.

• 10:46David Sims?

  So many lesbians.

• 10:49David Sims?

  Just the more, the better.

• 10:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 10:51David Sims?

  How many lesbians are in this movie? Like, two? He's like, I don't care.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  Not enough.

• 10:54David Sims?

  All right, we've added eight more. Okay, okay, I'll direct it right now.

• 10:57Griffin Newman?

  Can I become the Bizarro DJ Khalid of cinema?

• 11:03Griffin Newman?

  Hail Caesar. A great film, a masterpiece.

• 11:08David Sims?

  Uh, yes, a wonderful film.

• 11:10Griffin Newman?

  I have a very distinct memory of you and I, we were at Ray's Pizza, getting ready to go to the final showing ever at the Ziegfeld Theater.

• 11:18David Sims?

  We certainly did go to that.

• 11:20Griffin Newman?

  Force Awakens playing in its second month in January before it closed, and we went to that, we were getting pizza beforehand. You told me you saw Hail Caesar earlier that day. You said, "It's really great." And I said, "That's awesome. I love when the Coen Brothers do their kind of just like fun romp things." And you looked at me very seriously and went, "No, this is like a masterpiece."

• 11:39David Sims?

  Um, absolutely. I mean, right, it was released in what, February? Right. So it's like, I feel like everyone was kind of like, "Okay, so this is just a confection," you know, like, right.

• 11:49Griffin Newman?

  It was also sold in a very similar fashion to Burn After Reading, of like, "We've got a bunch of big stars doing silly stuff."

• 11:57Griffin Newman?

  And that movie, as I like to remind people, did bizarrely well, is completely forgotten. It felt like they were doing the exact same marketing tactic, and I was like, "I'm on board for another one of those." And you were like, "This is profound. This movie is profound. It's about everything." I saw it. I was not befuddled by it, but I was like, "That's fun. I don't know if I quite see what David's seen."

• 12:16David Sims?

  I think you more had the reaction most people had to it, of like, "Fun."

• 12:20Griffin Newman?

  Fun.

• 12:20David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 12:21Griffin Newman?

  And some great stuff in it, and then it's one of those movies that like, two weeks later, I was like, "I gotta go see that again."

• 12:26David Sims?

  Yeah, I was like, "Hmm, I think I saw it three times in theaters."

• 12:29Griffin Newman?

  I saw it at least two, if not three. I've watched it at least five times since then. It's a movie that fucking rocks and rolls. And speaking of rock and rolling, our guest today, you might know her best as...

• 12:41David Sims?

  Should we hold off on this now?

• 12:43Griffin Newman?

  Friend and coworker.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  What if you never do it?

• 12:46David Sims?

  We've done that bit, and it's fine, but I feel like it's sort of like, you know.

• 12:49Griffin Newman?

  It also works better when we do it to Hoffman, because he gets more irritated by it.

• 12:53Speaker 01

  Oh, he wants to be introduced.

• 12:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, and we've held off, and now he starts introducing himself. From The Atlantic, Shirley Lee, "Far too long. One of the most requested, why has it been so long since Shirley was on the show?" And the reason why is people go, "All-around great guest." Great personality, great jokes, great laugh, but more than anything, she unlocks David.

• 13:16David Sims?

  Oh.

• 13:16Griffin Newman?

  David is in rare form, whatever Shirley is on the show.

• 13:19David Sims?

  The key to the... Oh, Shirley.

• 13:21Griffin Newman?

  The dog is off the leash.

• 13:23Speaker 01

  I feel like I...

• 13:23David Sims?

  You've only been on two episodes.

• 13:25Griffin Newman?

  It's crazy.

• 13:26Speaker 01

  I'm nervous being here. I feel like the last time I was here, I don't know, I like caused a ruckus.

• 13:31David Sims?

  Ponyo?

• 13:31Griffin Newman?

  That's people want the ruckus.

• 13:33David Sims?

  What was the ruckus? I remember that's a famous episode that got fucked up in the Audio Boom days.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  That's the ruckus.

• 13:40David Sims?

  Wait, what episode? Ponyo. I mean, I mean, it was mostly fun, but it was one of those episodes where chunks of it got messed with. Oh, I don't remember that. It's like Mad Max, Ponyo, Public Enemies are the big three I remember.

• 13:50Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 13:51David Sims?

  Where like after the fact, you were like, the system overloaded.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  Geez, Ben, you turn 40 and you forget.

• 13:56David Sims?

  Well, I think there's a reason why I've blocked them out, and I think it's because it became an actual nightmare. Right, that year, which was like sort of the last year at Audio Boom Studios, it started to really be a problem. Right, because then we had our Mad Max episode that got all fucked up. That's what I'm saying, yeah, those, and then this... Which was not my fault.

• 14:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 14:16David Sims?

  2020.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  I wasn't accusing you.

• 14:18David Sims?

  You were pointing at me this entire time.

• 14:20Speaker 01

  Your honor, he's fine.

• 14:22David Sims?

  2020?

• 14:23Griffin Newman?

  2020.

• 14:24David Sims?

  Something went on then, and that was also...

• 14:25Griffin Newman?

  Call of the Wild came out.

• 14:29David Sims?

  Bring, bring. David just, David just saluted. Never saw that one, you know, never, never checked. I know Ben saw it, I know Ben saw it.

• 14:37Griffin Newman?

  Do you remember us ruefully in the pandemic being like, can you believe we didn't take the opportunity to go to Call of the Wild?

• 14:43David Sims?

  In a theater.

• 14:44Griffin Newman?

  We're here in our fucking bedrooms locked up in June 2020, and we could have been seen Call of the Wild with a big bucket of popcorn surrounded by rowdy strangers.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  So this is your Eddington, Griffin?

• 14:54David Sims?

  So Shirley, you were on our Sense and Sensibility episode, of course, in which Ben was baffled by the concept of a deathbed, which I've never forgotten.

• 15:00Griffin Newman?

  What happened to that guy? You see him dying at the beginning of the movie and they never follow up? One of the greatest Ben questions of all time, asked in earnest, and I think you even said that guy's on his deathbed and then they never tell you what happened to him.

• 15:14David Sims?

  Did he make it?

• 15:15Speaker 01

  Well, you said that in the first like two minutes, I think.

• 15:18David Sims?

  Yeah. I needed to get clarity.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  Right. It was, it's important.

• 15:22Griffin Newman?

  And it was framed as, I was so confused by this movie. And we're like, list the things that confused you, and that was top of the list.

• 15:31David Sims?

  You were on a Ponyo episode, a movie that back then I had seen many times. Now I have seen such a staggering amount of times that I know like every single.

• 15:40Speaker 01

  You've broken records.

• 15:41Griffin Newman?

  As much as you brush your teeth.

• 15:43David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  Wait.

• 15:45David Sims?

  And then we cannot forget Shirley.

• 15:46Griffin Newman?

  His hygiene is not great.

• 15:47David Sims?

  Oh, boy. You cannot forget Shirley that you did appear on our Wendell and Wild episode to recount.

• 15:53Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, the terrifying evening. When I saw you as like, as like one of the infected from 20 days later.

• 16:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. He was infected with the red spiders.

• 16:04David Sims?

  I was like, I was like.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  You're so pale.

• 16:07David Sims?

  Like, I was like hammering like a panel.

• 16:10Griffin Newman?

  He was on all fours eating worms out of the ground.

• 16:14David Sims?

  And then we just went to some random room of like, in like the middle of the building.

• 16:18Speaker 01

  We went to, they had like lounges upstairs and lounges downstairs.

• 16:21David Sims?

  And we just like sat there looking at each other in our pajamas, just like, eh, what time is it?

• 16:26Speaker 01

  I tried to sleep and you just kind of continued to go eh.

• 16:29David Sims?

  I just like stared into space. My daughter woke me up at 3 a.m. a couple of days ago.

• 16:33Griffin Newman?

  Nice work if you can get it.

• 16:34David Sims?

  Seriously. And I go up there and I'm like, what is it? You know, what's going on? You know, because you're like, okay, you had a bad dream. Yeah. And she was just like, it's dark outside. And I was like, it's the middle of the night.

• 16:46Speaker 01

  That's what happens.

• 16:46Griffin Newman?

  How funny would it be if your daughter, you find her awake at 3 o'clock in the morning and she's just tapping a security panel, bleary eyes? And you're like, fuck, she really is my child.

• 16:57Speaker 01

  I want to be clear. It was the tapping of the security panel while also trying to message the Airbnb hosts while also, I don't know how you did this, both hands rubbing against each other in fright.

• 17:09Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 17:09David Sims?

  But it was the.

• 17:12David Sims?

  The fire alarm was going off in the building.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 17:15David Sims?

  Which was not our doing, but I compounded it by

• 17:19Griffin Newman?

  Activating the

• 17:19David Sims?

  Activating like a security alarm on top of the fire alarm.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  I mean, it's funny thinking back, right? It's funny. Not for

• 17:26David Sims?

  I guess it's funny.

• 17:27Griffin Newman?

  It's funny.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  It's funny.

• 17:28David Sims?

  I just remember that I couldn't see, and this is a true tragedy. Darren Aronofsky's The Whale at TIFF because I was so fucking tired.

• 17:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 17:37David Sims?

  Because of that, so I had to see it later.

• 17:39Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 17:40David Sims?

  Uh, and I did get to see it though, so don't worry.

• 17:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 17:43Speaker 01

  But while, yeah, while you were at TIFF, though, the only thing you knew about it was that one image.

• 17:47David Sims?

  That one.

• 17:49Griffin Newman?

  David, for the listener, is doing a perfect impression of the picture. And now can I, can I make requests? Can I make requests?

• 17:57David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 17:57Griffin Newman?

  Can you do Leo at the Flowers Moon table?

• 17:59David Sims?

  Right, right.

• 18:00Speaker 01

  No, isn't he looking up?

• 18:02David Sims?

  Oh, is he looking up?

• 18:02Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 18:02David Sims?

  Hold on, hold on, cut, cut. It was a nut. Let's retake that.

• 18:05Griffin Newman?

  Aren't the hands more forward on the table?

• 18:06David Sims?

  Yeah, you're, you're correct. You're referring to, again, this is somewhat deep lore for our listeners, might not know.

• 18:11Griffin Newman?

  One publicity still.

• 18:12David Sims?

  Right. Two movies that had, for what felt like a year, only one publicity still. Now, the Killers of the Flower Moon one was fine. It was Leo and Lily Gladstone sitting at a table. It was a little boring, but there was nothing that odd about it. The Whale one, of course, was just, you know, Brendan Fraser in his makeup going like

• 18:33Griffin Newman?

  Big old head.

• 18:34David Sims?

  And you're just, and like, it's called The Whale, and at a certain point, you're like, this is starting to feel insulting.

• 18:39Griffin Newman?

  It was just, it was just that one image, and then they revealed the poster, and the poster was that image with text over it. That was the funniest heightened to just be like, and the poster is, once again, just the look.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  Just the look.

• 18:53Griffin Newman?

  The look.

• 18:53David Sims?

  Oh.

• 18:54Speaker 03

  Okay, so let's get the Flowers of the Killer Moon face one more time.

• 18:57David Sims?

  And also, it's called Killers of the Flower Moon, but they actually changed it to Flowers of the Killer Moon.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  Did you say cut on yourself?

• 19:02David Sims?

  That's the horror version.

• 19:03Griffin Newman?

  That's, that's the live, die, repeat.

• 19:05David Sims?

  And then, of course, there's my favorite movie, Flowers of the Lazy Old Moon.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 19:09David Sims?

  Lazy.

• 19:10Griffin Newman?

  Here's a conversation I want to pin that we're gonna have. Which of these fake movies looks the best?

• 19:17David Sims?

  Okay, so.

• 19:17Griffin Newman?

  Would you most want to watch?

• 19:18David Sims?

  All right, so let's talk about

• 19:19Griffin Newman?

  I said pin for later, but I guess we're doing it now.

• 19:21David Sims?

  We can pin it for later.

• 19:21Griffin Newman?

  David's trying to skirt the, the impression.

• 19:24David Sims?

  What's the impression I have to do?

• 19:24Griffin Newman?

  Do the table.

• 19:25David Sims?

  Oh, let me get the image.

• 19:27Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 19:28David Sims?

  I want to, I want to really study it. You know, I want to like bring in my like sense memory. Okay, yeah, so it's, it's this.

• 19:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 19:35Griffin Newman?

  Oh, the hands are under the table?

• 19:36David Sims?

  They're under the table. And then I'll do, I'm gonna do Lily Gladstone now.

• 19:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, okay. Good, right. And she's kind of bummed.

• 19:41David Sims?

  She's got a shawl over.

• 19:42Speaker 03

  David's head kind of, yeah, like cradled himself.

• 19:44Speaker 01

  She looks cold and he looks sweaty.

• 19:46David Sims?

  The thing is, and then I saw that movie really early.

• 19:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 19:49David Sims?

  Cause of Ken.

• 19:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 19:51David Sims?

  And it was the Leo pointing at the screen meme when they're sitting at the fucking table. You're like, yes, yes, here they are.

• 19:58Griffin Newman?

  Our buddy, past and future guest, wrote a really good piece about how interesting that shot is in the context of the movie.

• 20:06David Sims?

  I mean, that scene in the movie is so good.

• 20:09Griffin Newman?

  Right. And it's so different than what as a, like, fucking online pill movie obsessive you would imagine the scene was after 18 months of seeing it.

• 20:18David Sims?

  The scene in The Whale, too, where he goes like this.

• 20:20Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 20:20David Sims?

  Was also so good.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  Wait, again, again, again, again.

• 20:23David Sims?

  Eighty percent of the movie.

• 20:24Griffin Newman?

  The look.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  Again, again. One more.

• 20:30Griffin Newman?

  You know what movie blows goats?

• 20:32David Sims?

  The Whale.

• 20:32Griffin Newman?

  The Whale.

• 20:33David Sims?

  The Whale is one of those movies that, like, my children will come to me decades from now being like, is this fake? This won awards? Like, people melted gold and put them in casts?

• 20:44Griffin Newman?

  It is an anecdote I've repeated so many times, but my, my younger sister, Romley, who was born in 1998.

• 20:49David Sims?

  You love this anecdote.

• 20:50Griffin Newman?

  Watched American Beauty for the first time like five years ago in the pandemic and was like, can you explain to me how this happened? Was like, I'm, I'm just actually befuddled. Explain to me what I was too young to understand. This came out and was a box office sensation and swept the Oscars in one of the most iconic years of all time in American cinema?

• 21:10David Sims?

  What do you mean? American Beauty, it's got a great pitch. So there's this pedophile.

• 21:15Speaker 01

  And what are you talking about, Griffin? I mean, like, all she needs to do is just watch a plastic bag.

• 21:19Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 21:19Speaker 01

  Drifting in the wind.

• 21:20Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 21:21David Sims?

  It is so funny. They're like, what's the A plot? And it's like, he wants to fuck a high schooler. Like, oh, Jesus. Okay, what's the B plot? These teens get really into a plastic bag. It's like, are you fucking kidding me? This is the B plot?

• 21:32Griffin Newman?

  This guy wants to fuck his daughter's friend. Oh, so that's the conflict? No, he gets what he wants.

• 21:36David Sims?

  No, that's the goal. That's the quest.

• 21:38Griffin Newman?

  He's miserable that he has a career in a nice house.

• 21:41Speaker 01

  I have no notes. I don't know what you're laughing about.

• 21:45Griffin Newman?

  He gets shot at the end and the audience cheers. No, they cried.

• 21:48David Sims?

  No, they're sad about it. Yeah.

• 21:51Griffin Newman?

  We wanted the death of a hero. Sylvester Berman said what we were all afraid to say.

• 21:58David Sims?

  Best picture, best picture. It's also so weird.

• 22:02Griffin Newman?

  People were yelling that.

• 22:04David Sims?

  Best picture, best picture. But he like jacks off to fucking roses. What a weird guy.

• 22:09Griffin Newman?

  Weird.

• 22:10David Sims?

  What a weird movie.

• 22:10Griffin Newman?

  Doesn't he say, does he say?

• 22:12David Sims?

  That movie has so much masturbation in it.

• 22:14Griffin Newman?

  Does he say dashing the bishop or choking?

• 22:17David Sims?

  Something like, he has the whole bit where he says like five, like.

• 22:20Griffin Newman?

  When an effeminate walks in on him in the shower.

• 22:22David Sims?

  I was doing this, doing that. You know, I can't remember what they were, but yeah. Saying hi to my father.

• 22:27Griffin Newman?

  Spanking the monkey.

• 22:28David Sims?

  It's sort of like an Austin Powers moment.

• 22:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it is.

• 22:30David Sims?

  Right? Where he's like, oh, oh, oh.

• 22:33Griffin Newman?

  And of course, he would later become Dr. Evil in many ways. Um, Hail Caesar. It's a 2016 film.

• 22:40Speaker 01

  Yes, I have. I feel like we're bumming people out. We keep going down.

• 22:43David Sims?

  Lazy old moon.

• 22:45Griffin Newman?

  Okay, yes, let's get back to this. When I'm on the lazy old moon sequence, I am like, it would be really fun to watch this whole movie. It's, it's hardest to imagine the scenes around it. Where I'm like, this could go anywhere. Uh, I don't, what's the?

• 23:00Speaker 01

  What do you think happens?

• 23:02Griffin Newman?

  I don't know, because it feels like.

• 23:04Speaker 01

  Do you think he lassos the moon?

• 23:06Griffin Newman?

  I hope so.

• 23:07Speaker 01

  Hope he lassos the moon.

• 23:08David Sims?

  Oh my god.

• 23:09Speaker 01

  I hope he lassos that damn moon.

• 23:11David Sims?

  So I opened the, you know, the dossier, which we can start looking at for Hail Caesar. Written by JJ Burch.

• 23:18Speaker 01

  JJ.

• 23:18David Sims?

  And then I got a chat notification within the dossier from JJ Burch saying, say hi to Shirley for me.

• 23:27Griffin Newman?

  Tell him he's fired. Tell him that Shirley has fired.

• 23:33Speaker 01

  Hey, Jage. Miss you, Jage.

• 23:35Griffin Newman?

  Uh, what, what's the name of the No Dames movie?

• 23:38David Sims?

  Uh.

• 23:39Speaker 01

  Uh.

• 23:40Griffin Newman?

  Do they, do they?

• 23:41Speaker 01

  Homoroticism.

• 23:44Griffin Newman?

  Because you have Hail Caesar, the Tale of the Christ.

• 23:46Speaker 01

  Uh huh, uh huh.

• 23:47Griffin Newman?

  We have, uh, right, there's, I guess the main ones are Lazy Old Moon, the No Dames film, the new Lawrence, Lorenz film that Hobie's doing.

• 23:58David Sims?

  I'm trying to find the names of all of the.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  And then the, and then the aquatic.

• 24:02Griffin Newman?

  Merrily We Dance is one of them. I think Merrily We Dance is the, is the Tatum? Yeah. Yeah. I'd assume.

• 24:09David Sims?

  Right, which is that sort of an Anchors Away or On the Town type movie, obviously Hail Caesar's sort of like a Ben Hur movie.

• 24:15Griffin Newman?

  To me, that is the most transcendent sequence in the movie.

• 24:18David Sims?

  Which is, sorry.

• 24:18Griffin Newman?

  Uh, No Dames is like, every time I watch that, it is like Nirvana for me, when we will talk about it, in that it smells like Teen Spirit.

• 24:28Griffin Newman?

  But I do, I am most interested, the idea of watching 90 minutes of Lazy Old Moon, whereas watching the No Dame sequence, I'm like, that's a full meal.

• 24:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:37Griffin Newman?

  And I think it is that I want to know, like, how the relationships evolve in Lazy Old Moon? And what the conflict is.

• 24:43David Sims?

  I like the old guy, too.

• 24:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, a portly restaurateur.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 24:48Griffin Newman?

  It's always good. I'd like, here's, okay, going off of what you're saying, Shirley, I could imagine the plot of that movie being Crazy Old Guy.

• 24:56Speaker 01

  Lazy Old Moon, Crazy Old Guy.

• 24:57Griffin Newman?

  Right, tells Hobie, this dang moon keeps eluding me, don't you have a good lasso? You have to bring the moon back to me, and Hobie's character has to figure out how to satisfy his demand, right? And then in the process, like fucking Romances his daughter or whatever.

• 25:14David Sims?

  So, okay, the movies are Hail Caesar, a Tale of the Christ, which has obviously been her, Covadis, those kind of movies. Lazy Old Moon, a classical, what Variety used to call an O'Tuner, I think, which is like, basically like a cowboy film with music, exactly. Uh, sort of a Roy Rogers type movie. Jonah's Daughter is the name of the mermaid, Busby Berkeley type movie.

• 25:35Griffin Newman?

  With the whale.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  Did someone say the whale?

• 25:41Griffin Newman?

  Do the look.

• 25:42David Sims?

  I think there's literally a movie called, um, Million Dollar Mermaid, that's one of those, Busby Berkeley.

• 25:47Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 25:48David Sims?

  Uh, obviously, On the Town, Anchors Away is sort of, uh, being done as, um, that, that movie doesn't have a title, so No Dames, I think, is the best.

• 25:57Griffin Newman?

  We'll make that the functional.

• 25:58David Sims?

  Merrily We Dance is the kind of lubitchy, you know, uh, society comedy, right?

• 26:06David Sims?

  It's complicated.

• 26:09David Sims?

  Pretty funny joke.

• 26:09Griffin Newman?

  There, there, that moment is another moment in this film that almost tears me up.

• 26:15David Sims?

  Oh, like the, the, the final hammer of that joke dropping an hour later, basically?

• 26:20Griffin Newman?

  But it's

• 26:20David Sims?

  Or 45 minutes.

• 26:21Griffin Newman?

  It's funny, and I love how they, yes, the, the patience and also the sort of circuitous way they resolve that storyline, but also I'm like, I actually find it kind of emotionally profound. Like, I think that is, not to get ahead of things, but like, especially that, that scene is Frances McDormand, right? Wife of one Coen brother, playing an editor, the position that the other Coen wife occupies, right? These two ultimate wife guys who love making movies with their wives, right? And love movies. And you have this scene where like, she is playing an editor, showing this footage, and in it, I think they are quietly capturing the magic of like, you have seen this fucking

• 27:05Griffin Newman?

  disastrous day of shooting, where you're like, how is anything good gonna come out of this? Right? And they can't get this fucking line out. And even before the hammer blow of, oh, they cracked it. They figured out what his movie star persona is. You need to adjust it around him, but if you change the line, he'll nail that delivery so fucking hard, and it will convey something greater than what was the original plan. The sort of like, living text of like, what they say, that like, movies get written three times, right? They're written on paper, they're written on the shoot, and they're written in the edit. And that's like, a thing that I think the Coens like, love, that feels like magical about movies. But also, in the assembly she's showing him, before you get to that line, you see two shots

• 27:48Griffin Newman?

  of him closing the door, and him walking from the door to the couch, that when you see them play out earlier in the movie, you're like, this is horrendous. His walk is so awkward. He's doing this cowboy walk. He's like, clearly self-conscious about how big the door was, and he looks behind him. And in that moment, it's like, these are laughing films of like, this guy can't pull this off. And in the way that they edit it, it suddenly has a new context. Where him, looking back at the door behind him is because they placed the insert shot of the briefcase in the hallway before it. And his awkward walk, when framed from like, shoulders up, feels like nervousness rather than this guy doesn't know how to walk.

• 28:30Griffin Newman?

  And like that magic of it, and he doesn't like fucking, Brolin doesn't overplay it. He doesn't have some tears in his eyes moment. He doesn't go, that's the magic of the movies. But I do see on his face, he's like, yeah, these things, you give them time and they work out. I was right, you know?

• 28:47Speaker 01

  It's true. And then she nearly chokes to death.

• 28:50Griffin Newman?

  That, well, no, it happens right before. That's the thing. It's, he saves her from death and then he sees. It's complicated.

• 29:01David Sims?

  It's a miracle moment. Well, so much of the magic that has worked in this movie is sort of serendipitous. It's not Eddie.

• 29:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 29:09David Sims?

  Eddie is often kind of like, oh, I figured it self out, you know? Sort of burnt after reading A Jason in a way.

• 29:14Griffin Newman?

  That fucking moment at the table too with Alison Pill where he's like, oh, that problem solved itself.

• 29:19David Sims?

  Right, right. Exactly.

• 29:20Speaker 01

  And I find, I find that moment very moving. And it ties the whole film together for me, right? It's like, it's like at home, at work. He has all these things that he needs to take care of, or he thinks he needs to take care of. But it's kind of like, the magic of the movies that you're talking about also kind of bleeds into just the magic of working in the movies.

• 29:36Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  And it all, it all works itself out.

• 29:40Griffin Newman?

  It does.

• 29:41Speaker 01

  But does it without someone caring about it?

• 29:43Griffin Newman?

  That's, surely, that's the X factor, right? Like the, the moral conflict at the center of this movie, at least within the Eddie Manix character and his arc, right? Is the like, is this job killing me? Am I like babysitting lunatic children all day? And like putting out insane fires for something that feels frivolous, right? At a time where like Hollywood is mostly into like distraction entertainment, escapist entertainment, like fair, because people need to like, forget their troubles, you know?

• 30:15David Sims?

  Got you guys this character poster.

• 30:16Griffin Newman?

  David, pin in that. We're gonna talk about that for, I do not exaggerate, 45 minutes. Pin in that.

• 30:24Speaker 01

  That's also the magic of the movies.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  David's doing the whale again. It really doesn't work for a podcast.

• 30:31Griffin Newman?

  I know, but it's so funny when he does it. And by the way, guys, we're not going to video. So.

• 30:36David Sims?

  Wouldn't be as funny on video.

• 30:37Griffin Newman?

  It wouldn't. I agree. It's, it's the theater of the mind. Um, Eddie Mannix is

• 30:43David Sims?

  A real guy.

• 30:43Griffin Newman?

  Constantly, but, but also.

• 30:45David Sims?

  Semi fictionalized version of a real guy.

• 30:47Griffin Newman?

  This movie is not attempting to represent the real Eddie Mannix at all, but they're using the name of a guy who was this type of guy. Uh, who's played by Bob Hoskins in Hollywood Land.

• 30:56David Sims?

  That's right.

• 30:57Speaker 01

  Hollywood Land. I once had a, well, okay. I had a birthday party at a Lowe's Theater and we watched Hollywood Land and I, well, there was nothing coming out that weekend.

• 31:10David Sims?

  How was that 2005 or six or something? Like, when was that?

• 31:14Griffin Newman?

  My memory is that all Lowe's Theaters in New York were, became AMC's.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  Yes, they did.

• 31:24Griffin Newman?

  Around that time.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  This one did. This was in New Brunswick, New Jersey. And I turned to look at my friends and four of them had fallen asleep.

• 31:33David Sims?

  Yeah. Four out of four?

• 31:37David Sims?

  Your four friends. Wait, so 2006, Shirley, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say you were what, 17? How old? 18?

• 31:44Speaker 01

  Uh, 15.

• 31:46David Sims?

  15? Jesus, you're such a young person. Although it's not like now, and Shirley's having to deal with this now at the Atlantic.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  Uh oh.

• 31:53David Sims?

  Where I meet people and I'm like, and they're grown people.

• 31:56Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 31:57David Sims?

  Fully grown, you know, they work with you.

• 31:59Griffin Newman?

  This is the worst.

• 32:00David Sims?

  And then I'm like, wait, when were you born? And they're like, you know, well, I'm this, or they say their age. And I'm like, were you born after nine 11? And they're like, no, no, no. I was born two months before nine 11. And I'm like.

• 32:13Griffin Newman?

  The, the, I remember the first time.

• 32:15David Sims?

  He was in a crib!

• 32:16Griffin Newman?

  I remember the first time I had a conversation with a child who had been born after nine 11 and I, I had the thought of, oh, it's crazy that children born after nine 11 can now string together sentences.

• 32:28Speaker 01

  You should meet my sister!

• 32:29Griffin Newman?

  Talking to an eight-year-old and I was like, it's crazy that someone born after nine 11 can be old enough to walk on their own two feet without support. And now, yes, they, they're taking over our workforce.

• 32:39Speaker 01

  They have their, they have their own jobs. They have their own opinions. I'm sorry, we're the last generation allowed to have opinions, right?

• 32:46David Sims?

  That's disgusting. They should, right, exactly. They should be silent.

• 32:49Griffin Newman?

  They're trying to engage in the marketplace of ideas.

• 32:52David Sims?

  Exit!

• 32:53Speaker 01

  They have a role?

• 32:54David Sims?

  I cannot believe you saw, wait, so you said 15?

• 32:57Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 32:57David Sims?

  You saw Hollywood Land?

• 32:58Speaker 01

  There was nothing else, I'm, I'm.

• 32:59Griffin Newman?

  David, this is why Shirley is friends with us.

• 33:01Speaker 01

  I'm telling you.

• 33:02Griffin Newman?

  This is why Shirley is on our show.

• 33:03Speaker 01

  I'm telling you.

• 33:04Griffin Newman?

  This is some real blanky coated shit.

• 33:07David Sims?

  Hollywood Land.

• 33:07Griffin Newman?

  High school Hollywood Land birthday party.

• 33:10Speaker 01

  I was like, we're gonna go see Hollywood Land.

• 33:12David Sims?

  Do you like it when Adrian Brody's tired?

• 33:14Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 33:14Speaker 01

  Oh, he's so tired in that movie.

• 33:15David Sims?

  Because it's like that, The Jacket, Cadillac Records, Brothers Bloom, like this run of like, well, he's still an Oscar winner, where he has to play a tired guy.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  But don't you love Ben Affleck trying to be Superman, trying to do like?

• 33:29David Sims?

  I have never seen Hollywood Land.

• 33:31Speaker 01

  Oh, jeez.

• 33:31David Sims?

  Is it any good?

• 33:32Griffin Newman?

  I remember.

• 33:33David Sims?

  I remember Affleck was the one people talked about.

• 33:35Griffin Newman?

  I remember not liking Affleck's performance in it.

• 33:38David Sims?

  Cool.

• 33:38Griffin Newman?

  Liking everyone else in it, thinking the movie was overall kind of a snooze. Not bad, but just.

• 33:44Speaker 01

  You were one of my friends who fell asleep.

• 33:45Griffin Newman?

  A little.

• 33:45David Sims?

  One of the four.

• 33:46Griffin Newman?

  I might have taken a quick nap in the middle.

• 33:47David Sims?

  Now Cheryl, your birthday's early September. I know this because we often celebrate your birthday at TIFF.

• 33:53Speaker 01

  Yes, we do.

• 33:53David Sims?

  Uh, so I'm looking at movies you could have seen then, just doing a little sort of micro box office game.

• 33:58Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 33:58David Sims?

  You could have gone to see The Covenant.

• 34:00Speaker 01

  You think I want to see The Covenant?

• 34:02David Sims?

  Come on, isn't that like hot boys doing magic or something?

• 34:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, Stephen Strait.

• 34:06David Sims?

  Sure.

• 34:07Speaker 01

  Well, are you saying that Ben Affleck's not a hot boy?

• 34:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 34:10David Sims?

  Sebastian Stan, you could have gotten on the Stan train early.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  No, I know, that's a, I missed that train.

• 34:16Griffin Newman?

  That was one of the poutiest movies of 2006.

• 34:18David Sims?

  That was, but that's when like the Sebastian Stan train was like a guy operating a hand, right? It's like, so now the Sebastian Stan train.

• 34:25Griffin Newman?

  Man from my brother.

• 34:26David Sims?

  Exactly. He's like a sleek bullet train that everyone's like, get me on that train.

• 34:30Griffin Newman?

  I mean, fantasy put it so well, beyond just like him having these two movies last year that were such good showcases for actual acting.

• 34:37David Sims?

  Right.

• 34:37Griffin Newman?

  He was like, Sebastian Stan shows up in Thunderbolts and you're like, is this guy James Dean now?

• 34:42David Sims?

  It's Griffin.

• 34:42Griffin Newman?

  Fifteen times he's played Bucky and suddenly I'm like, this dude is fucking liquid gold.

• 34:47David Sims?

  Exactly how I felt watching Thunderbolts.

• 34:49Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 34:49David Sims?

  And like he's in the first chunk where he's playing sad Congressman Bucky and I'm like, oh, this is kind of funny, but like whatever. And then he rides in on a motorcycle looking like the Terminator. He finally has his own theme.

• 35:02Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 35:02David Sims?

  His only theme before then in all his movies is just like a scream because he's the Winter Soldier, right?

• 35:07Griffin Newman?

  I was like. Did Sebastian Stan become? Really nice burn on that, Mike. Did Sebastian Stan become like-

• 35:14David Sims?

  And I'm like, I'm excited!

• 35:15Griffin Newman?

  The CEO of Minute Maid? Cause this guy has all the fucking juice!

• 35:19David Sims?

  Oh, he really wanted to get that out. I just could not believe that like, my blood pressure was going up at the sight of Sebastian Stan.

• 35:27Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 35:27David Sims?

  After years of me being like, yeah, C plus, B minus on that guy.

• 35:32Speaker 01

  See, then you missed the train. I got on the train with Gossip Girl.

• 35:35David Sims?

  But then did you ever get off the train?

• 35:38Speaker 01

  Did I? No, I didn't get off the train. I never got off the train. I was on the train during Once Upon a Time. I'm so sorry.

• 35:43Griffin Newman?

  I was talking to past and future guest, John Gabris, friend of the show, who I believe has a February birthday or January birthday. I'm a February birthday, but September is similar. Where in our childhoods, it was like, you're guaranteed-

• 35:55David Sims?

  Slim pickens.

• 35:56Griffin Newman?

  If you are a movie kid and your default is, can we do a movie birthday? You're gonna go see some bullshit. And there was one year, I'm sure I've said this on the show, but despite being a February kid, in 2002, I was like, I'm gonna make my birthday Spider-Man. And people were like, that's May. And I'm like, yeah, I'm just gonna-

• 36:12David Sims?

  Right. It's, you're like the Queen of England where you're like, I have two birthdays now. Right, yeah.

• 36:16Griffin Newman?

  I'm just saving my birthday party until Spider-Man comes up.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  Time.

• 36:20David Sims?

  You could have seen the third weekend of the inspirational football drama, Invincible.

• 36:25Griffin Newman?

  Mmm.

• 36:26David Sims?

  Not a bad movie. Saw it on a plane.

• 36:28Speaker 01

  Oh no, I'm so sad I missed Invincible.

• 36:30Griffin Newman?

  Directed by Erickson Core?

• 36:32David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 36:33Griffin Newman?

  You never forget a name like Erickson Core.

• 36:35David Sims?

  He sounds like a sort of thing you have to buy for your car.

• 36:38Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 36:39David Sims?

  You're gonna need an Erickson Core. Your battery is low, you know, is burning out.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  I mean, you're not gonna find a film that I'm gonna be like, yeah, oh wait, I saw Crank.

• 36:49David Sims?

  So you'd already seen it.

• 36:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, that was the problem.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  I had seen Crank with my dad.

• 36:53David Sims?

  The illusionist with um-

• 36:54Speaker 01

  I had seen The Illusionist.

• 36:55David Sims?

  With the little orange tree?

• 36:56Speaker 01

  Yes. I'd seen, I had seen all other options. I, I don't know. I thought I was getting on a horse that would run far. I don't know why.

• 37:03David Sims?

  There was, there was the mild, quiet, kind of like Affleck back-

• 37:06Griffin Newman?

  My friends will thank me when Affleck is accepting an Academy Award seven months from now.

• 37:11Speaker 01

  They will be so sad that they're missing 15 minutes of this.

• 37:14David Sims?

  No, cause it's 2006. It's not, it's that he makes Gone Baby Gone the next year and everyone's kind- Of like, okay, Affleck back.

• 37:20Griffin Newman?

  Yes, but I'm saying.

• 37:21David Sims?

  He didn't get an Oscar seven months later.

• 37:22Griffin Newman?

  The buzz in the summer.

• 37:24David Sims?

  Oh, was maybe he'll get a sneak an Oscar.

• 37:25Griffin Newman?

  I'm saying Shirley's logic was, my friends will judge me now, but when he wins the Oscar for best supporting actor, they'll be like, Shirley?

• 37:33Speaker 01

  They're gonna be like, she knows her shit.

• 37:35David Sims?

  So I'm gonna open the dossier.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  Instead, I had to apologize to them.

• 37:40David Sims?

  Yeah, I think all of us in this room, Ben probably not, but the rest of us have had that screening. We dragged our friends to where afterwards you had to actively be like, I'm, I'm, I'm sorry that I made you come to this.

• 37:51Griffin Newman?

  Yep.

• 37:51David Sims?

  For me, it was Alexander. Like, I got a lot of people ready, you know, like, and they, they were ready to feed me to a mob after that. Like, they like throwing me to the lions.

• 38:01Griffin Newman?

  I had already seen Hulk and I told all my middle school friends, you don't understand movie of the summer. I'm going again. We all gotta go. And I truly, I, I cannot believe I made it out of that night alive.

• 38:15Speaker 01

  They were all, they were all just as angry as the titular character.

• 38:17Griffin Newman?

  What the fuck are you talking about with the energy?

• 38:25Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 38:25David Sims?

  Yes. Mmm.

• 38:29David Sims?

  Is that the Cine's cow?

• 38:30Griffin Newman?

  The Cine's cow is back.

• 38:31David Sims?

  Haven't heard from her in a while.

• 38:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, she's reactivated because she's horny for chicken fingers.

• 38:38David Sims?

  Okay.

• 38:38Griffin Newman?

  And she's excited for the streaming debut of Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma.

• 38:43David Sims?

  Wow.

• 38:43Griffin Newman?

  The cow likes chicken.

• 38:46David Sims?

  Remember cow and chicken? Let's look it up. While, while you, while you tell the, the great listeners about the great stuff on movie.

• 38:52Griffin Newman?

  Well, movie is a global film company, bringing great cinema to the world and to you. Curating and elevating visionary filmmaking, all handpicked, always. That's what movie does. Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma, one of my favorite movies of the year.

• 39:05David Sims?

  Absolutely.

• 39:06Griffin Newman?

  You can feel the rush now at home. There's a hole at the bottom of the lake where the movies come from.

• 39:12David Sims?

  That is a line in the movie.

• 39:13Griffin Newman?

  In the new movie from Jane Schombrohm, Past and Future Guest.

• 39:16David Sims?

  Past and Future Guest, a great filmmaker, a great podcast guest, great friend.

• 39:21Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 39:22David Sims?

  This movie rocks. It's got, of course, it stars Hannah Einbinder and Gillian Anderson. Legends and I tip my cap, but Zach Cherry.

• 39:30Griffin Newman?

  Performances, friend of the show.

• 39:31David Sims?

  Friend of the show, Zach Cherry.

• 39:33Griffin Newman?

  Zach Cherry.

• 39:33David Sims?

  Also in it.

• 39:34Griffin Newman?

  This is true.

• 39:36David Sims?

  Such a cool movie. Won the Queer Palmitcan. If you haven't heard about this movie, I don't know what's going on with you, but like.

• 39:41David Sims?

  It obviously has, it was out in theaters this summer and now it's on movie.

• 39:46Griffin Newman?

  Hannah Einbinder plays the filmmaker attempting to reboot the Camp Miasma franchise, trying to track down the original final girl from the first movie to, to make some sort of legacy sequel, who's played by Gillian Anderson, who lives at the summer camp.

• 40:00David Sims?

  Yes. And you know, and then they hang out and it's regular.

• 40:04Griffin Newman?

  What happens? It's, it's one of those Hollywood's out of ideas. No, it's very much a movie about Hollywood being out of ideas while being an example of there still being new stories to tell.

• 40:16David Sims?

  It's now streaming exclusively on movie and you can try movie free for 30 days at movie.com slash blank check. That's M U B I dot com slash blank check for a whole month of great cinema for free.

• 40:28Griffin Newman?

  They got so many great movies on there to watch, but worth it for 30 days for Miasma.

• 40:34David Sims?

  Damn right.

• 40:40Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 40:40David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 40:41Griffin Newman?

  It's not cuffin' season for me. It's hosi season for me. And this year that meant finally upgrading my new mattress from Lisa.

• 40:48David Sims?

  Lisa.

• 40:49Griffin Newman?

  It's supportive, comfortable and just what my body needs after a long day. It makes crawling into bed on a chilly fall night feel like luxury.

• 40:57David Sims?

  Yeah, I have a Lisa too. Uh, they've got a lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses tailored to how you sleep.

• 41:03Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 41:03David Sims?

  Each mattress is designed with specific sleep positions and feel preferences in mind. They've got eco-friendly materials.

• 41:10Griffin Newman?

  Maybe you hear eco-friendly and you go, oh, but I'm going to sacrifice comfort.

• 41:13David Sims?

  No.

• 41:14Griffin Newman?

  Nope.

• 41:15David Sims?

  They've been awarded best hybrid and best memory foam mattresses by New York Times' Wirecutter. They're featured by West Elm as their go-to mattress partner and they work with local nonprofits across the U S to donate thousands of mattresses each year to families in needs. Over 43,000 mattresses donated to date. Go to lisa.com for up to 30% off mattresses. Plus get an extra $50 off with promo code blank check. Exclusive for our listeners. That's L E E S A dot com promo code blank check for up to 30% off mattresses plus an extra $50 off. Let them know we sent you in the survey after checkout. Lisa.com promo code blank check.

• 42:02Griffin Newman?

  David!

• 42:02David Sims?

  Yes?

• 42:03Griffin Newman?

  Shop.com is giving away $1 million in Shop Cash.

• 42:07David Sims?

  Wow. Shop has all the stores you love and lets you track every order in one spot.

• 42:12Griffin Newman?

  I love that. It's very convenient.

• 42:14David Sims?

  And now, 1,000 shoppers are each gonna win $1,000 in Shop Cash, just in time for the holidays.

• 42:21Griffin Newman?

  You get gifts for everyone on your list, or get yourself something a little merry and bright. Find exactly what you're looking for at shop.com.

• 42:30David Sims?

  Got stocking stuffers, maybe. The sickest luxury items. Cookware, to kicks, toys to high-tech, even tinsel and tree toppers. Type in what you're looking for to instantly search every shop at once, okay? That's shop.com. You can just go click around, find brands you love, search across all the stores, track every order in one spot.

• 42:53Griffin Newman?

  From cult favorites to the world's biggest brands, score suite deals, and checkout fast, all at shop.com. Enter to win the $1 million Shop Cash giveaway from now until November 1st. Just go to shop.com. There are so many ways to win. That's shop.com. Shopping designed around you. No purchase necessary. Restrictions apply. Official rules available at shop.com.

• 43:22David Sims?

  In 1998, I'm opening my god dossier. Ethan Coen said-

• 43:27Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna finish my Annie Manks point later. I'm just pinning that along.

• 43:30David Sims?

  Oh, fair enough.

• 43:30Griffin Newman?

  I just want the listener to know I haven't forgotten.

• 43:33David Sims?

  Told the, um, uh, Los Angeles Times that he and his brother had done some writing assignments before adapting other people's scripts on an unattributed basis. The Coens say, "We don't really wanna put our names on stuff like that because we're not really in control of it."

• 43:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 43:46David Sims?

  And I feel like movie fans know that, that occasionally the Coens have done a pass on a movie you liked that they didn't get any credit.

• 43:51Griffin Newman?

  Much like a PTA. Right.

• 43:53David Sims?

  Much like PTA.

• 43:54Griffin Newman?

  Where now there's more stuff he gets credit for, but I think there's a lot of shit where people are like, "PTA, can you spend a weekend and just make this dialogue more interesting?"

• 44:01David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 44:02Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 44:03David Sims?

  In the mid, late, early mid 2010s, they get, start to get some credit for some of these. So you got Gambit, of course, uh, which was eventually released, sort of.

• 44:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 44:13David Sims?

  Uh, you have, uh, the Angelina Jolie film Unbroken, which they have a credit on.

• 44:17Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh. Bridge of Spies, of course.

• 44:19David Sims?

  Uh, Bridge of Spies, which supposedly they really just did the, the, the sort of chunk in the middle.

• 44:24Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 44:25David Sims?

  Uh, where he's in Berlin.

• 44:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 44:26David Sims?

  Right.

• 44:27Griffin Newman?

  Berlin, Jesus, yes.

• 44:29David Sims?

  Yes. Uh, and, uh, Unbroken, they, they came aboard late after Jolie was attached to Angelina Jolie. She directed that movie. Um, and she basically was like, "I want you guys to come aboard. I want the film to have structure and wit and playfulness between the men," you know? Which is very interesting that, like, I don't think that movie's very good, but that Jolie, who I think is a more talented filmmaker than some credit her for.

• 44:55Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 44:55David Sims?

  Had the sort of like knowledge of like, here's the, like, here's what needs strengthening in the movie. And weirdly, I think the Coen brothers will work for it.

• 45:02Griffin Newman?

  I'm not hiring you to do the Coen brothers thing. I'm recognizing that you are multi-skilled and you're good technicians and I want you to just help crack this. Of course, Ladykillers and Talbot Cruelty both start out as assignment jobs for them that they weren't going to direct and then become.

• 45:17David Sims?

  We've, when we've talked about those movies already.

• 45:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 45:19David Sims?

  Brad, and she mentions that she knew them partly because Brad Pitt had done Burn After Eating when she was, she was with him when that happened.

• 45:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I was checking notes and that marriage ended perfectly.

• 45:28David Sims?

  And she was with Billy Bob Thornton.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  Was Unbroken, yes.

• 45:30David Sims?

  People forget, she was with Billy Bob Thornton when he did Man Who Wasn't There. So she had experienced the Coens process twice.

• 45:37Speaker 01

  The table.

• 45:39Griffin Newman?

  I, I don't want to be crass, but I'm just quickly imagining a life in which you wake up every morning next to Angelina Jolie.

• 45:46David Sims?

  Sure.

• 45:46Griffin Newman?

  You go to set and film The Man Who Wasn't There.

• 45:49David Sims?

  Right, you have to play cuck of the year.

• 45:51Griffin Newman?

  And then you rap production for the day and you go home and you have sex with Angelina Jolie.

• 45:56David Sims?

  He, I'm sure he could not. It would have broken his character into a billion pieces.

• 46:00Griffin Newman?

  I think, I think Billy Bob's got the range.

• 46:02David Sims?

  Yeah, he does.

• 46:04Griffin Newman?

  I think that's what makes Billy Bob Billy Bob is that he could do that. That he, he would rap for the day, take off his toupee. Put his viral blood necklace back on.

• 46:14David Sims?

  Now, around when they're.

• 46:17Griffin Newman?

  And go to pound town.

• 46:18Speaker 01

  I don't want to picture.

• 46:19David Sims?

  No, picture it.

• 46:20Griffin Newman?

  Picture it.

• 46:22David Sims?

  Around the time that they're working on Hail Caesar, these are certain things. That's why JJ, I think, is giving us this color. This is the kind of stuff they're working on around Hail Caesar.

• 46:29Griffin Newman?

  And this is a nice kind of swan song for Trish as he's fired.

• 46:32David Sims?

  Yeah, exactly. They claimed that they were working on a sort of Sword in Sandals movie. I always wondered if that was a joke or not, because obviously this movie has a parody of a Sword in Sandals movie in it.

• 46:45Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 46:45David Sims?

  They also claimed they were working on a musical where the main character was going to be an opera singer. Never has been realized. Another thing that happened around this time is that Suburbicon, which is a script that they had written back in 1986, essentially, starts to spool up with George Clooney in the director's chair. And George Clooney had a little twist to it. Poop.

• 47:10Griffin Newman?

  A movie I still never see.

• 47:12David Sims?

  You've never seen Suburbicon?

• 47:13Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 47:13David Sims?

  It is insane.

• 47:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 47:15David Sims?

  Because it is half a Coen Brothers script and half a George Clooney script.

• 47:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 47:18David Sims?

  And the Coen Brothers script is like, you're like, yeah, this is like a Coen Brothers movie.

• 47:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 47:21David Sims?

  It's like, you know, dumb gangsters.

• 47:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 47:23David Sims?

  Then the other half is this like really somber tale about like integration and like, it's so weird. Such a weird movie.

• 47:29Griffin Newman?

  It is just funny that I feel like, right, this era of their names actually getting credited on these things they wrote, kept having this juice of like, holy shit, the Coen Brothers wrote Unbroken? Is this going to win Best Picture? And then people saw it and they were like, they clearly were like skilled hired hands on this. This does not have Coen Brothers identity.

• 47:47David Sims?

  They screwed some nuts on this movie.

• 47:50Griffin Newman?

  And then like Suburbicon and Gambit, people were like, oh, I guess these scripts only work if they direct them themselves. And like Bridge of Spies, which we love, as you said, it's like they were kind of pinch hitters.

• 47:59Speaker 01

  Suburbicon, I remember being one of those when I was still at EW. I don't know if this is sharing trade secrets, maybe it is. But it's like when we would do the fall movie preview, summer movie preview, whatever, insert season here, movie preview. Some people would see some of the films in advance, and I remember this one because of the pedigree, it had a little bit more room on the page. And then as the buzz-

• 48:19David Sims?

  Damon, Clooney.

• 48:20Speaker 01

  As the buzz died down, it got smaller and smaller, and I remember it was a tiny little piece of that preview.

• 48:25David Sims?

  Just a little circle.

• 48:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:27David Sims?

  Tiny little circle.

• 48:28Griffin Newman?

  It was one of those movies where you were looking at the fall preview and you were like, "I don't know if this is gonna win Best Picture, but I am guaranteed to have a good time." You're like, "Clooney's directing a film script with Julianne Moore, Matt Damon, and Oscar Isaac?

• 48:41David Sims?

  Right.

• 48:42Griffin Newman?

  I will have a blast." And everyone came back and was just like, "Huh." Weirdly anti-fun.

• 48:46Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:47Griffin Newman?

  The opposite of interesting.

• 48:49David Sims?

  Yeah. So, back when George Clooney first works with the Coen Brothers in a little movie called Oh, Brother, Where Art Thou?

• 48:56Griffin Newman?

  They sort of fall in love. They're like, "This guy is so good at playing idiots, we love idiots."

• 49:00David Sims?

  They match really well with him.

• 49:01Griffin Newman?

  We have a movie star who unlocks financing immediately.

• 49:03David Sims?

  Also true.

• 49:04Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 49:05David Sims?

  And they, at that point, apparently tossed off an idea to him that's kind of like, "What if like a matinee film idol who's making like a Ben Hur-type movie gets kidnapped?"

• 49:13Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 49:14David Sims?

  That was sort of the intent, that was like the entirety of the pitch.

• 49:17Griffin Newman?

  There was also, at some point, they were teasing, because they do Intolerable Cruelty, which once again, like, kind of comes together weirdly sideways, and they plug Clooney into it, and they're like, "Now that we've done two, we need to complete our idiot trilogy." And they kept saying, "The third movie in the idiot trilogy will be Hail Caesar."

• 49:34David Sims?

  Right.

• 49:35Griffin Newman?

  They had the title.

• 49:36David Sims?

  They did, they always had that title.

• 49:37Griffin Newman?

  People would push them on it, they were like, "It's basically a one-sentence idea. There's no script, we haven't really cracked it, but we like the idea." And the other thing that would always get thrown out was like, "He's in a traveling company doing a production of Julius Caesar?"

• 49:50David Sims?

  That is another idea that they definitely-

• 49:52Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 49:53David Sims?

  -explained as like, "Maybe that's what Hail Caesar is." I feel like, like you said, they were sort of like, "Hail Caesar, set in past, acting involved, Clooney stupid."

• 50:02Griffin Newman?

  Right, him playing old-timey dumb star. In some kind of period piece.

• 50:08David Sims?

  Apparently, another thing they pitched at that time was called Adolf, Terry, Hitler, an alternate universe comedy in which Hitler's parents migrated to L.A. in the 1900s and their son grows up to be a Hollywood big shot and the eventual manager of a Hitler agency.

• 50:21Griffin Newman?

  There's shit like that where I wonder if they're trolling us, or if on their cloud drive, there is the greatest.

• 50:27David Sims?

  Right.

• 50:27Griffin Newman?

  They were written in full.

• 50:29David Sims?

  Or they wrote 30 pages and they were like, what are we doing? And then those 30 pages are very funny.

• 50:33Speaker 01

  No, no, no, guys, I think they were just, you know, they're brothers playing Mad Libs.

• 50:37David Sims?

  Adolf, Terry, Hitler.

• 50:38Speaker 01

  They were having a great little sleepover.

• 50:40David Sims?

  They start generating, right. Uh, and they would always tell George that his character would, quote, be a gas-baggy fathead, and for some reason, that really appealed to him. Ethan, gas-baggy fathead is George's forte. Uh, so Hail Caesar would come up a lot, but of course, uh, what they call the numskull trilogy, you know, they end up making a tale of a cruelty and then they do Burn After Reading.

• 51:04Griffin Newman?

  And people are like, I guess Hail Caesar was never a thing.

• 51:07David Sims?

  After, right, after Burn After Reading, George said, like, have I played my last idiot for you guys? You know, it's sort of like, you know, uh, but it was always on IMDb, Clooney notes this.

• 51:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 51:17David Sims?

  That because, I guess, they talked about it enough, there was literally just kind of like, Hail Caesar, Joel Cohen, Ethan Cohen, George Clooney, no plot, no nothing.

• 51:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 51:24David Sims?

  Um, and so finally, they sit down to write the thing.

• 51:27Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:28David Sims?

  Uh, because they're like, everyone's gonna get too old, anyway.

• 51:30Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:31David Sims?

  And, uh, they describe it as a movie, about the movie business and life and religion and faith. Faith in the movie business. And, uh, they eventually decided to make Eddie Mannix the main character. And George is like, an important character, but he's like, George Chas Brolin is the lead of the movie.

• 51:47Griffin Newman?

  Yes. It is funny how this film, with its all-star cast, just settled its billing order by alphabetical, and yet that alphabetical ends up being.

• 51:58David Sims?

  Clooney.

• 51:59Griffin Newman?

  Brolin, Clooney, Aaron Wright.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  I mean, it's serendipity outside of the movie and in the movie, right?

• 52:03Griffin Newman?

  Totally, but it's like, the three guys are in the right positions.

• 52:07David Sims?

  Uh, and you're right, you're right.

• 52:09Griffin Newman?

  I just always, it's kismet.

• 52:12David Sims?

  Uh, so, um, you know, the characters they create, Scarlett Johansson's playing kind of an Esther Williams, that old Nurek is like Tim Holt, Channing Tatum is like gay or Gene Kelly.

• 52:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 52:25David Sims?

  Uh, Clooney is kind of like a Robert.

• 52:27Griffin Newman?

  Gay communist Gene Kelly.

• 52:28David Sims?

  Right.

• 52:29Griffin Newman?

  One of the coolest movie star moves for Channing Tatum at this moment of so much heat to be like, I'm doing deep supporting for the Coens. It is only three scenes, but one of those scenes is going to require months of choreography.

• 52:43David Sims?

  Right.

• 52:43Griffin Newman?

  And I'm playing a gay communist.

• 52:45David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 52:45Griffin Newman?

  It's just like king shit. I want to explore stuff. I'm not like trying to preserve a like safe career.

• 52:52Speaker 01

  I mean, the months of training, because he wasn't a tap dancer, right?

• 52:56Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 52:56Speaker 01

  Like, and tap, like, so he, he does hip hop dancing?

• 53:00David Sims?

  Sure.

• 53:00Speaker 01

  Per my knowledge of step up films.

• 53:01David Sims?

  He was the step up boy.

• 53:02Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 53:03Speaker 01

  But yeah, tap, I mean.

• 53:03David Sims?

  Stick it.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  To, no, yeah, step up.

• 53:05David Sims?

  Step up.

• 53:06Speaker 01

  Stick it is gymnastics.

• 53:07David Sims?

  Yes.

• 53:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 53:08Speaker 01

  You don't, you don't stick it in dancing.

• 53:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 53:10David Sims?

  You're right.

• 53:11Griffin Newman?

  Stick it's messy paragraph in his.

• 53:12David Sims?

  And we love it.

• 53:13Griffin Newman?

  Five star masterpiece.

• 53:14David Sims?

  Good movie.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 53:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 53:15Speaker 01

  And we love gymnastics.

• 53:16Griffin Newman?

  We do.

• 53:16Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, right. So he, he spent months training in tap and tap is like, I mean, I don't, I, I, I'm not a dancer. I, I take like adult ballet classes.

• 53:27Griffin Newman?

  I know.

• 53:28Speaker 01

  I'm in Hobby City over here.

• 53:30Griffin Newman?

  Okay, okay.

• 53:31Speaker 01

  Uh, and it's just kind of like tap is sort of impossible, uh, to, to get within a couple of months, but look at this guy, he did it. Here's the thing, right? Like tap is like, the skill of tap is relatively invisible. We do not have to go down this tangent, but like tap is one of those, um, you know, forms where it's kind of like, you can't really tell what the skill is when you're watching tap dancing. You, you hear the, the rhythms and things like that, but it's just like, it just doesn't translate well as like a really skillful piece of, I don't know, like a form of dancing.

• 54:01Griffin Newman?

  Well, the magic trick is that it.

• 54:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:03Griffin Newman?

  Especially I think how it's been historically used in American movies is that it is this kind of like quietly graceful off the cuff. I'm doing nothing sort of, like that's the Gene Kelly magic.

• 54:14Speaker 01

  Soft chewing around, yeah.

• 54:15Griffin Newman?

  Right. And it's like, you have to put so much work into getting it perfect and then additional work into doing it without showing any effort.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 54:22Griffin Newman?

  And it's like even beyond him having to learn tap on top of like what we're obviously trained like dance muscles and the right brain for it and all of that. This sequence is so complicated and just plays out in fucking like elegant wide shots.

• 54:36Speaker 01

  And he sells it like every second of it.

• 54:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 54:40Speaker 01

  Right?

• 54:40Griffin Newman?

  Like and and you're just like that guy had to do a ton of fucking work for a really small parts.

• 54:46Speaker 01

  But yeah, I'm like, this is Olympic level where I want to give Channing Tatum a medal. I want to give him so many medals. I believe every second of that choreography because yes, he trained until he got it right. But at the same time, it's like there's there's joy and delight in his face. The whole the whole performance comes together and it's and that is so hard to do.

• 55:04David Sims?

  But this is the second to last good movie he made.

• 55:08Griffin Newman?

  That, okay, so this is what I want to call out. So this was, he was at this point of like ascension, ascension, ascension.

• 55:15David Sims?

  Yes.

• 55:15Griffin Newman?

  Right? Save for like a Jupiter ascending or two.

• 55:19David Sims?

  We love those.

• 55:19Griffin Newman?

  He was on a real fucking masterpiece, but he was on such a hot run and it was like, this is the guy.

• 55:25David Sims?

  Yes.

• 55:26Griffin Newman?

  And then he makes this.

• 55:28David Sims?

  Yes. In 2016, in 2017, he does Logan Lucky, which I think he's great in.

• 55:33Griffin Newman?

  But weirdly flops.

• 55:34David Sims?

  It doesn't do that well.

• 55:35Griffin Newman?

  And then he kind of disappears for like six years.

• 55:37David Sims?

  No. Kingsman, the Golden Circle, which he's bad in and that movie's bad.

• 55:42Griffin Newman?

  I.

• 55:42David Sims?

  In 28, no, he's bad.

• 55:43Griffin Newman?

  I think he's good in it. I think that movie is so insane because they clearly wanted him and he was too busy.

• 55:49David Sims?

  Right.

• 55:49Griffin Newman?

  And so his character like shows up, then is on ice and then comes back at the end.

• 55:53Speaker 01

  His characters, his character's name is Tequila. You just said he's on ice.

• 55:57Griffin Newman?

  The Pedro.

• 55:58Speaker 01

  I just want to put an asterisk.

• 55:59Griffin Newman?

  Comedy points. But the Pedro Pascal character is clearly supposed to be him as well. And instead, the movie does this like.

• 56:05David Sims?

  You've done this rant on this podcast before, which is fine.

• 56:08Speaker 01

  Do it again.

• 56:08David Sims?

  In 2018, of course, he is Migo.

• 56:11Speaker 01

  Uh, because Zendaya is Meechey.

• 56:13David Sims?

  Correct. In Smallfoot. And then, yes, after that, it's basically like Cameo and Free Guy is pretty much it until, of course, he returns with Dog. Dog. And The Lost City.

• 56:27Griffin Newman?

  Right, which is a big hit.

• 56:28David Sims?

  Which is a hit and charming.

• 56:29Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Yeah. And it was like, okay, his training, like, got it back. Bullet trains a cameo where, you know.

• 56:34David Sims?

  And then Magic Mike's Last Dance, which is charming.

• 56:37Griffin Newman?

  A movie I love, but really kinda belly flopped and was not well received.

• 56:42David Sims?

  And then Fly Me to the Moon, which is unfortunately not very good.

• 56:44Griffin Newman?

  I respect him for trying that and he is woefully miscast.

• 56:48David Sims?

  He's quite miscast. And then, and then he was like, um, he's Gambit.

• 56:53Griffin Newman?

  We do that again?

• 56:54David Sims?

  What does he say? What's the, what's the line? We're about to make a name for ourselves, whatever his thing is, the thing he does.

• 57:01Griffin Newman?

  He also, he blinked twice.

• 57:03David Sims?

  Yeah, I don't.

• 57:04Griffin Newman?

  He really shouldn't have. I think he's good enough.

• 57:06David Sims?

  He's totally fine in it. I really hated that movie.

• 57:09Griffin Newman?

  I love him so much, but it is interesting that this felt like, weirdly, him doing this movie felt like such a show of power that it's like, I'm so above it, I can do anything I want, I'm not worried about the game. And then he kind of like completely, like, loses it, disappears, like, waxes and wanes. Lost City felt like, oh, he's back in the pocket doing the thing everyone loves from him, and it was such a hit, after years of no comedies connecting, that it was like, okay, so he's unstoppable again. And then, once again. He's stoppable. Yeah. But this, I watched this movie and I'm like, this guy's like one of the best raw movie star talents we have.

• 57:48David Sims?

  All right, but, okay, I'm back to the dossier. Alden Ehrenreich famously discovered when Steven Spielberg saw him on a video made for a friend's bar mitzvah.

• 57:57Griffin Newman?

  Correct. It was a comedy sketch that played at a bar mitzvah.

• 58:00David Sims?

  His initial big role is in Tetro, a normal movie directed by Francis Ford Coppola that's normal. Highly normal film.

• 58:08Griffin Newman?

  Uh, and then he's also in Twixt, another normal one from Copla. I believe a small part, although I haven't seen that one. Uh, he's also in Beautiful Creatures. That was sort of- Was that him in Zoe Deutsch, being beautiful creatures? No, it's, uh, um- It's, uh, uh, Alice Inglis. Yes, it's, it's Jean Campion's daughter. Um- Yes, beautiful creatures. That was an attempt to find him his- He's like the lead of that. Twilight. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's the Edward Cullen in, I think it's like, southern Gothic fucking witches or some shit. He has a smallish role in Stoker, being a naughty boy. Quite good. He's good in that, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, he's in Blue Jasmine, I honestly do not remember him in that. He is- I just saw that one time. I wanna say he's Cate Blanchett's son, or he's Alec Baldwin's son. Right. He's got like two scenes he's very good in.

• 58:53Griffin Newman?

  Uh, and there was this film that The Rules didn't apply to, that he happens to be in as well. Which comes out this same year. Because Spielberg identifies him and marches him into whatever big agency he marched him into, and was like, "I'm telling you, this is like the discovery of a century." Which, I mean, Spielberg kind of not wrong, based on what we've just been talking about. The actual ability of this guy, right? But there was this feeling of like, he's got it. And I, I think, uh, I knew him a little bit back in the day. And it was very interesting because you could feel the sort of pressure he had on him. Of everyone around him was like, "You're the first DiCaprio we found in 20 years.

• 59:35Griffin Newman?

  We have to game this out really, really carefully." And so there were like, big things that he would pass on, or that they would tell him to pass on. Because they were like, "Is that the move young DiCaprio would do?" Right. "We should position you for auteur's." Oh, boy. But then, the auteur movies are like- Right. Tetron rules and apply, which was this really coveted part. Interesting movies. But then they don't totally work, and then they were like- Nobody sees them. "I guess we need to make you a teen idol, so you have the box office cachet to get the better auteur movies, but then Beautiful Creatures is the one that doesn't work." He like, tested for Spider-Man multiple times, he tested for Harry Osborn, there was all this sort of like, runner-up shit. And he had sort of gotten into this place where there had been like, so much energy around him for a decade, but he hadn't actually done that much.

• 1:00:18Griffin Newman?

  Because everyone around him was so overly cautious about what's the right move? Yeah. And it's better to do less. They put it in bubble wrap. Should've been a lazy old moon. Well, that's, that's the magic of this movie being like, "Oh." All this in a Coen movie. And like, it's just suddenly this miracle, like, fully arrived, perfectly packaged, incredible. An incredible showcase role to launch a new talent.

• 1:00:41David Sims?

  It's about a guy who does it all.

• 1:00:43Griffin Newman?

  Nails it. So fucking hard.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  So charming.

• 1:00:47Griffin Newman?

  Like, one of the best movie performances of the decade, in my opinion. I believe I nominated it as such.

• 1:00:52Speaker 01

  I love his spaghetti lasso.

• 1:00:54Griffin Newman?

  It's astonishing. And people were so fucking rude to him after Solo. And we're like, why the fuck did they hire this guy? Yes, but not his fault. He was hired by different directors to make a different movie.

• 1:01:07David Sims?

  But he is bad.

• 1:01:07Griffin Newman?

  It doesn't work, but, but there was this energy of like, why'd they pick this fucking rando? And I want to be like, watch hell Caesar you ingrates. It was the wrong move for everyone involved.

• 1:01:18David Sims?

  Did you like him in, um, Fair Play?

• 1:01:21Griffin Newman?

  I never saw Fair Play.

• 1:01:22David Sims?

  I didn't like that.

• 1:01:23Speaker 01

  I also didn't like that movie.

• 1:01:24David Sims?

  Did you like him in Cocaine Bear?

• 1:01:26Griffin Newman?

  I actually liked him a tremendous amount in Cocaine Bear, a movie that I think is quite poor.

• 1:01:31David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:31Griffin Newman?

  It's fairly rancid, and I think he's very good.

• 1:01:33David Sims?

  Did you like him in, what is the name of a senator here? Like Oppenheimer? He's good in that.

• 1:01:40Griffin Newman?

  I do think he's good in it. He unfortunately gets saddled with the line.

• 1:01:42David Sims?

  Can I ask a question? What is Cocaine Bear about? Oh, it's about, um, 1940s.

• 1:01:48Griffin Newman?

  Reaganism run amok.

• 1:01:49Speaker 01

  Guys, no, it's about a whale.

• 1:01:51Griffin Newman?

  It's about a whale. Do the look. It's gonna hit every time.

• 1:01:56David Sims?

  So, uh, one note on Channing Tatum. He had auditioned for No Country For Old Men for the Josh Brolin part, which is hilarious.

• 1:02:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:03David Sims?

  He's like, I was far too young, but I was so desperate to just literally get in front of the Coen brothers then. I just wanted them to see me.

• 1:02:10Griffin Newman?

  You know what I like also in a meta way about?

• 1:02:12David Sims?

  So it paid off years later.

• 1:02:13Griffin Newman?

  The use of Tatum here?

• 1:02:14David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:14Griffin Newman?

  Is that Tatum does feel like he's a bit of a hobby, right? This guy that was sort of discovered without the aspirations of being a movie star. And it was just like, well, just dance on camera. And then people were like, you're pretty good on camera. Can we give you words? And it was like, well, you're not a great actor yet, but there's something here. And then he just like built and built and built and developed and unlocked all these skills.

• 1:02:34David Sims?

  Uh, this film was shot in, huh, Los Angeles? Crazy. That never happens anymore.

• 1:02:39Griffin Newman?

  They sometimes call it on Shirley's birthday.

• 1:02:41David Sims?

  Uh, obviously, they needed it, you know, they needed to use these, you know, studios and backlots and all that fun stuff. Uh, it was a universal release, although of course, Capitol Pictures made it as far as, yes. Uh, they used the Warner Brothers lot, though, mostly, and Union Station and things like that.

• 1:02:56Griffin Newman?

  Which was a real, I mean, it was made for a difficult shoot because Yakko Wacko and Doc kept escaping from the water tower and interrupting production.

• 1:03:03David Sims?

  Jesus, and the Good, the Good Feathers showed up. And that squirrel with the purse.

• 1:03:07Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:08David Sims?

  What's her name?

• 1:03:09Griffin Newman?

  And there were hippos who were a couple or some shit? It's funny that like-

• 1:03:13David Sims?

  You know when you watch Animaniacs and it's like, ah, it's the squirrel with the purse? I'm gonna zone out for five minutes. I hope they do the pitches soon.

• 1:03:19Speaker 01

  The truth is when they have the shot of the water tower, that's immediately where my mind goes.

• 1:03:24Griffin Newman?

  It is funny-

• 1:03:25David Sims?

  Fucking like, you'll be watching Oppenheimer and it's like, or Tenet or whatever. And I'm like, yeah, but where's Wacko?

• 1:03:30Griffin Newman?

  It is funny that Animaniacs and Pinky in the Brain were immediately and remain so sticky. And everyone just forgets there were like five other segments.

• 1:03:39David Sims?

  Yeah. Good Feathers was good. It just got saved.

• 1:03:41Griffin Newman?

  Was good, but I do think is undersung.

• 1:03:43David Sims?

  And then what was the name of the squirrel with the purse?

• 1:03:45Griffin Newman?

  Slappy?

• 1:03:46David Sims?

  That's it.

• 1:03:47Griffin Newman?

  I think, right?

• 1:03:47David Sims?

  I think you're right.

• 1:03:48Griffin Newman?

  And she had a little kid or some shit?

• 1:03:50David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:51Griffin Newman?

  Who'd she, who'd she slap with the purse? She hit someone with the purse. There was a sidekick.

• 1:03:55Speaker 01

  Uh, George Scudney.

• 1:03:57Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:03:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:57David Sims?

  Elderly, grouchy, cartoon-free squirrel.

• 1:04:00Griffin Newman?

  Did she have a little squirrel?

• 1:04:01David Sims?

  Skippy squirrel was the, uh-

• 1:04:04Griffin Newman?

  Goddaughter or some shit?

• 1:04:06David Sims?

  Um, so, uh, the Coens said, this is shot on film and they were like, this is probably the last movie we're gonna shot, shoot on film.

• 1:04:14Griffin Newman?

  Sad.

• 1:04:15David Sims?

  Um, a little sad. Bruno Del Banel shot Inside Luan Davis, of course.

• 1:04:20Griffin Newman?

  This is them getting back to the Deke.

• 1:04:22David Sims?

  Uh, they go back to Mr. D. I think Deacon doesn't do Davis because of Skyfall.

• 1:04:26Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:04:27David Sims?

  Um, so this was Deacon's returning to film, Celluloid, uh, for the first time in a while. And he said, like, we kinda had to, we felt like for the era that we're, you know?

• 1:04:38Griffin Newman?

  And I'll say this, this is one of the only modern movies I can think of that actually somehow captures, uh, Technicolor.

• 1:04:48Griffin Newman?

  Feelings, like three strip, you know?

• 1:04:51David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:04:52Griffin Newman?

  Like when you watch old movies and you're like, why does fucking nothing look like this anymore? And eggheads will explain to you the alchemical process that changed. And it's like, but why can't we with our digital technology make anything look this good again? And this movie like has so many different styles it has to emulate. And it emulates all of them better than I feel like most people are able to pull off with one focus.

• 1:05:14David Sims?

  They are the best.

• 1:05:15Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:05:16David Sims?

  Uh, retate, uh, Tatum's dancing.

• 1:05:18Griffin Newman?

  Hmm.

• 1:05:19David Sims?

  Uh, they, the Coens offer him the part. And he's like, I don't sing or tap dance. Like, I want to work with you so bad, but I just FYI, I do not sing or tap dance.

• 1:05:30Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:05:31David Sims?

  Uh, it became a six minute song with tap dancing in the script. Apparently it's basically just like they do a song or whatever.

• 1:05:37Griffin Newman?

  [laughing]

• 1:05:39David Sims?

  Uh, so they tried to embrace his physicality, surely that you're mentioning because he can do things like flips and jumps.

• 1:05:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:45David Sims?

  Right? So they tried to put as much of that. And as, uh, Gattelli, uh, the tap coach, what's his full name? Christopher Gattelli says, uh, it's a really hard skill and he'd never tapped before ever. Uh, he learned 10 years of tap training in three months. It was the most amazing thing to watch.

• 1:06:04Griffin Newman?

  I had a little time.

• 1:06:04David Sims?

  I'm just kind of like, is this Johann Santana throwing a no hitter? Christopher. I know nobody gets that reference, but after he did that, he was never the same pitcher ever again.

• 1:06:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:13David Sims?

  And it's not like Channing's gone, but it's almost like, did Channing overload himself learning to tap dance for Hail Caesar? Those six minutes depleted him. Years to recover.

• 1:06:23Griffin Newman?

  Truly, I'm like, it's, I don't know. I don't like in interviews with him, it doesn't feel like this guy lost it or he's washed. And I do feel like he talked about that, like when he hit so big, when he had his like Magic Mike foul. Uh, what was it? There was the one where he had three hits in a row.

• 1:06:41David Sims?

  Sure. Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:43Griffin Newman?

  300 million dollar hits in a row and he became the most in demand guy. And I think he's like, I worked too much. I like, all the opportunities came in and I couldn't say no to anything and I burnt myself out. And I like, my marriage fell apart and I wasn't seeing my kid and I was like, I want to take a break. And the break felt like a, a good mental health, like space that then was maybe also elongated by pandemic and such.

• 1:07:05David Sims?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:07:06Griffin Newman?

  But I don't get the sense from him that like, oh, there's something he lost that he can't get back or there's something broken.

• 1:07:11David Sims?

  Yeah, I think it's circumstances around him, right? But not circumcision.

• 1:07:16Griffin Newman?

  We don't know. We don't know.

• 1:07:18David Sims?

  I feel like there was a time he talked about burning his penis on set.

• 1:07:21Griffin Newman?

  It was The Eagles. The production of The Eagles was a profile that I believe was an Esquire.

• 1:07:25Speaker 01

  I just want to say that the choreographer for that sequence, I'm reading here on the internet, he was also the resident choreographer for the Rosie O'Donnell show.

• 1:07:32Griffin Newman?

  Hell, yes.

• 1:07:33David Sims?

  That's important.

• 1:07:35Griffin Newman?

  Choreographed the arc of those.

• 1:07:36David Sims?

  I'm calling Congress. They need to know this. The year is 2012, Griffiths. The vow, 21 Jump Street and Magic.

• 1:07:44Griffin Newman?

  There we go.

• 1:07:44David Sims?

  That's his sort of really, really insane.

• 1:07:46Griffin Newman?

  He has 300 million dollar movies in the first six months of the year. And that's when they pushed back G.I. Joe, which was going to be his fourth movie that year, to be like, we fucked up. We got to shoot new footage.

• 1:07:56David Sims?

  And they split him up across the entire movie.

• 1:07:58Griffin Newman?

  Because he originally died in the opening scene.

• 1:08:00David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:08:02Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I just think, I think you're, it's interesting what you're saying. Because you do watch this, and even though this is a small performance and a small part of the movie in so many ways, you're also like, the skill of what he's showing in the wattage, and how hard he is selling just like multiple things at once while also like taking real chances. It was like, has this guy just unlocked like 20 new chambers?

• 1:08:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, but here's the thing. He unlocks these chambers. I don't think, I don't, I don't think the opportunities unlocked for that, for him because they weren't available. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's kind of like, well, it's kind of the argument that there aren't movie stars and that the real movie stars became superheroes. And then he was lined up to do that, and then that didn't happen.

• 1:08:44Griffin Newman?

  Here's the thing I want to get your opinion on, because we've talked about this in the past, is like part of the wheel, of the weird, where did Channing go? Thing, similar to Swayze, where they were both male stars who were disproportionately popular with women and were very comfortable making the genres of film that are often seen as women's films. And is that an audience that perhaps then wants to refresh with the younger guy faster? Versus like, did Channing ever totally? Did Channing, did Channing ever totally win over like dudes?

• 1:09:20Speaker 01

  That is a good question.

• 1:09:21Griffin Newman?

  Not to be very binary.

• 1:09:22David Sims?

  No, no, I don't think so, not really. Channing Tatum was never cool.

• 1:09:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:27David Sims?

  In that, in the way you're describing.

• 1:09:29Griffin Newman?

  And there is.

• 1:09:30David Sims?

  He was fun.

• 1:09:30Griffin Newman?

  There is a thing when like guys are too.

• 1:09:32Speaker 01

  And I think people didn't take him seriously, seriously.

• 1:09:34David Sims?

  He doesn't help by being a big old goofball. Like, he's not really, and then when he did Foxcatcher, like, when he's like, I'm making serious movies. It's like, you're really suited to this role

• 1:09:43Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:09:44David Sims?

  of like, kind of a lunkhead. He's amazing in that movie. I think he's great in it.

• 1:09:47Griffin Newman?

  I agree, I think he's the best performance in that movie. But there's a similar weird, David's doing the Foxcatcher look. Call me Golden Eagle.

• 1:09:58Griffin Newman?

  I'm Oscar out.

• 1:10:00Griffin Newman?

  My nose is so big.

• 1:10:05Griffin Newman?

  I, I think there's a similar weird Swayze drop off, where you're just like, how did this guy, like, have fucking?

• 1:10:10David Sims?

  Swayze is a solid comp.

• 1:10:11Griffin Newman?

  Ghost, Dirty Dancing, Point Break, this guy's at the center of the fucking culture and he can do everything. And it's not like he has, like, three embarrassing flops in a row and it makes sense. You're just like, it just weirdly kind of tapers.

• 1:10:25David Sims?

  I think it's homophobia a little bit. Wait, Ben, what do you want to say?

• 1:10:27Speaker 03

  I was gonna add, I feel like, though, he has pretty consistently done modeling and fashion related work.

• 1:10:35Griffin Newman?

  Channing, Channing remains a major celebrity, even as his, like, movie stardom goes through weird waves.

• 1:10:45Speaker 01

  He'll, there, there will always be headlines about him because he has one project or another. Like, I don't mean film or TV projects. Like, he wrote, like, some picture books, right, with his daughter or something? Yeah, so like, his personal life is part of his professional life, even though I just said that the circumstances outside of his professional life affected him.

• 1:11:01Griffin Newman?

  I know we're hyperfixing on Chang in this episode, but part of what's interesting about this movie is how much it examines, like, the making of a movie star, right? And how much of it is, like, timing, circumstance, crafting of a team around you, you know? Sort of like, context, opportunity, but also these weird X-factors that is like, someone connects, right? They work well on camera and the audience forms a relationship with them. And then you're sort of like, what is this relationship? And the, like, success or failure to identify, what is the thing that works about you? And how can that be transmuted into other spaces so that you don't get repetitive? And some people, it's a real struggle to figure out, like, what is the thing I need to keep track of? While also not getting stuck in a rut?

• 1:11:43David Sims?

  He's in Avengers: Doomsday as Gambit.

• 1:11:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, second.

• 1:11:45Speaker 01

  Did he get a chair?

• 1:11:47Griffin Newman?

  He got a chair.

• 1:11:47Speaker 01

  He got a chair.

• 1:11:48Griffin Newman?

  He got a chair.

• 1:11:49Speaker 01

  Oh, man. Imagine getting a chair.

• 1:11:50David Sims?

  Oh, sure.

• 1:11:51Griffin Newman?

  Okay, I'm gonna do a sidebar for a second.

• 1:11:53David Sims?

  Right, that's what Gambit says.

• 1:11:54Griffin Newman?

  Brian Reynolds did so many fucking emotional posts of like, I'm so proud of my friend Channing Tatum. We had similar journeys of wanting so badly to play these Marvel characters and getting stuck in development hell. And I knew that feeling of fighting 10 years to get the Deadpool movie made when no one believed in it.

• 1:12:08David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:12:08Griffin Newman?

  And I saw the same thing happen to him, but he never actually got to make it. And to see us finally find a way to let him play Gambit and the public react so strongly.

• 1:12:17David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:12:17Griffin Newman?

  Such a win from him. And I'm like, the whole fucking movie frames Gambit as being like a dumb fucking idiot. The bit is like, he's Boomhauer.

• 1:12:27Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:12:28David Sims?

  But Gambit kinda is a dumb fucking idiot.

• 1:12:30Griffin Newman?

  I know, but I...

• 1:12:31David Sims?

  I mean, God bless him.

• 1:12:32Griffin Newman?

  I'm like, look, like triumph of like, yeah, he got to wear the costume and people cheered and like, you know, he's funny in it.

• 1:12:38David Sims?

  He's funny in it.

• 1:12:40Griffin Newman?

  This clearly isn't what he wanted to do with Gambit, is be a punk.

• 1:12:43Speaker 01

  I mean, it's not really the return of Gambit if you don't have Anna Paquin back as Rogue. And we really set that up. I'm just saying, I have opinions.

• 1:12:50David Sims?

  But she's in Avengers: Doomsday?

• 1:12:53Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:12:53Speaker 01

  I don't know, did she go to chair? I didn't watch that, I rely on you to tell me.

• 1:12:56Griffin Newman?

  They'll do an Avengers: Doomsday Rogue cut.

• 1:12:59David Sims?

  All chair recaps for me.

• 1:13:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:00Speaker 01

  I turn to you every day and I'm like, David.

• 1:13:02David Sims?

  Chair, chair news?

• 1:13:03Speaker 01

  Chair?

• 1:13:03David Sims?

  Chair? What's, what's chair?

• 1:13:05Speaker 01

  Not chair.

• 1:13:05David Sims?

  It would be funny if they restarted that, they'd added one more chair.

• 1:13:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:08David Sims?

  Just like a random guy. Just like, oh, and the catering's being done by these people.

• 1:13:12Griffin Newman?

  That's a good question. Is that feed still live and just hasn't been updated in two months?

• 1:13:17David Sims?

  So you want me to do the chairs?

• 1:13:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:18David Sims?

  You want me to read them aloud? It's two minutes long now.

• 1:13:22Griffin Newman?

  That sucks.

• 1:13:22David Sims?

  Chris Hemsworth.

• 1:13:23Griffin Newman?

  The worst thing was when it was the live stream during the day and every 30 minutes they'd add another chair.

• 1:13:28David Sims?

  Anthony Mackie.

• 1:13:28Speaker 01

  I really thought that...

• 1:13:29Griffin Newman?

  Five hours of my life.

• 1:13:30Speaker 01

  I don't know. I think I watched two chairs. And then, I don't know, like, what's your threshold for chairs?

• 1:13:34David Sims?

  Letitia Wright.

• 1:13:35Griffin Newman?

  I kept going in and out. And then I went to see a movie and then I came back and caught up.

• 1:13:39Speaker 01

  So you dipped, you dipped with the chairs?

• 1:13:41Griffin Newman?

  The Polack's chair was small. It was a smaller chair, the camera.

• 1:13:44Speaker 01

  Mmm, that's right. I think someone sent like a screenshot to that, to a group chat or something. And I was like, well, maybe I'll dip back into the chairs. But then I thought they wouldn't do anything else with it.

• 1:13:53Griffin Newman?

  I was texting one of our group chats and everyone was like, I can't believe you're still watching this. And I was like, just to be clear, I, I refresh it once every 30 minutes. I'm not glued to it.

• 1:14:01David Sims?

  I was glued to it.

• 1:14:02Speaker 01

  That's fair.

• 1:14:02Griffin Newman?

  I have control. I have power.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  Also, when you said group chat?

• 1:14:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:06Speaker 01

  I thought group chair.

• 1:14:07David Sims?

  Joseph Quinn.

• 1:14:08Griffin Newman?

  That's actually really funny. Maybe we should rename that.

• 1:14:11Speaker 01

  I don't know what that is.

• 1:14:12Griffin Newman?

  Here's an interesting, here's an interesting thing in retrospect. They announced the entire Thunderbolts cast other than Olga Korolenko.

• 1:14:19David Sims?

  Tom Hanks.

• 1:14:19Griffin Newman?

  A real signpost of the fact that like this person's not making it past the first trio.

• 1:14:24Speaker 01

  Do you think, do you think, do you think someone on Olga's team was like watching the whole thing just hoping?

• 1:14:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:30Speaker 01

  Hoping they'd do a fake out, you know?

• 1:14:32Griffin Newman?

  It was just so.

• 1:14:33David Sims?

  I think Olga's team was like, we'll happily take the fourth billing and $1 million for five days of work.

• 1:14:38Speaker 01

  David, are you done reading the chairs?

• 1:14:39David Sims?

  Channing Tatum.

• 1:14:40Speaker 01

  Okay. I mean, it's, it's kind of like, you know, she shows up, does one line and it's holiday day's work.

• 1:14:45David Sims?

  Downey Jr. There he is sitting in the chair.

• 1:14:49Speaker 01

  Heard of him.

• 1:14:51Griffin Newman?

  And her, her one line is her superimposed, her face superimposed into a stunt woman's body as her mask retreats quickly and it goes back down.

• 1:14:58David Sims?

  She's like, I'm not here for you. And it's like.

• 1:14:59Griffin Newman?

  She might've done that in her.

• 1:15:00David Sims?

  I mean, I swear to God. I mean, I, I know. How could you be mad if you forget? I, I take God's name in vain. Yes. Just that where they were like, how many people in this team like fight with sticks? It's like, you know, like four. It's like, okay, we gotta lose at least one of those guys. Like Jesus.

• 1:15:14Griffin Newman?

  How many like foreign ladies with severe personalities and masks?

• 1:15:20Speaker 01

  And she has the skills everybody else has because she can copy?

• 1:15:21David Sims?

  Right. That's the other problem with Taskmaster. We're like, what's Taskmaster's power? He copies other powers. Like, okay.

• 1:15:27Griffin Newman?

  I think they were right to do it, but it's such.

• 1:15:29Speaker 01

  Again, Rogue loses.

• 1:15:29Griffin Newman?

  It's such a funny, like feige, public handcuffing where they like make this big announcement of here's the cast of Thunderbolts three years ago. And they show the image and they bring them all out on stage and at some point they changed the plot and they're like, maybe we need to drop one person. And they're like, fuck, we're still contractually obligated to give her fourth billing and $1 million. And we have to put her all over the marketing to trick people into thinking she's a proper team member, but the most half-hearted effort, effort.

• 1:15:55David Sims?

  I took the fourth billing as an apology, as a sort of like, you know, sorry.

• 1:16:00Speaker 01

  What happens in Hollywood land, Griff.

• 1:16:02Griffin Newman?

  This is true, but also sometimes there's Marvel shit.

• 1:16:05David Sims?

  You'll get fourth billing.

• 1:16:05Griffin Newman?

  Like fucking Michael Staubert getting like fourth billing in Multiverse of Madness. Sometimes there's contractual, if you do a sequel, you move up in the billing.

• 1:16:15David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:16Griffin Newman?

  And even if we end up giving you a tiny part, we can't knock you down.

• 1:16:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's kind of like, yeah, when you go from junior varsity to varsity and you've, if you've still stuck around, yeah.

• 1:16:24David Sims?

  What were you varsity?

• 1:16:25Speaker 01

  Uh, volleyball.

• 1:16:27Griffin Newman?

  Did you let her?

• 1:16:27Speaker 01

  Baby? Yes. I found my varsity jacket over the weekend.

• 1:16:31David Sims?

  Show.

• 1:16:32Speaker 01

  We don't need, yeah.

• 1:16:33David Sims?

  Where'd you play?

• 1:16:34Speaker 01

  Uh, what do you mean?

• 1:16:35David Sims?

  Front, back, middle.

• 1:16:37Speaker 01

  I was the barrow.

• 1:16:39Griffin Newman?

  What's that?

• 1:16:40Speaker 01

  Uh, that is like a defensive specialist, but not the DS, which is the defensive specialist.

• 1:16:45Griffin Newman?

  You know my wife was a setter.

• 1:16:47Speaker 01

  I'm the one who wears a different jersey color.

• 1:16:48Griffin Newman?

  Your wife was a center? A setter.

• 1:16:50Speaker 01

  Oh, I mean, great role. That's what most captains are.

• 1:16:53Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:16:53Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:16:54Griffin Newman?

  I thought you were saying a center in basketball. You know what I like to do? She's got the height. Smash. She's got the reach.

• 1:16:58Speaker 01

  You want to smash your Hulk?

• 1:17:06Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:17:06David Sims?

  Yeah?

• 1:17:07Griffin Newman?

  This episode is brought to you by XYZ Films and the acclaimed new documentary Capturing Bigfoot.

• 1:17:12David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 1:17:13Griffin Newman?

  On October 20th, 1967, Roger Patterson captured 59 seconds of film showing a creature walking through the Northern California woods. I wonder if you can log that on Letterboxd?

• 1:17:24David Sims?

  It is an iconic video.

• 1:17:25Griffin Newman?

  Footage that became the most analyzed and debated in history. 59 years later, a reel of 16 millimeter film discovered in a safe changes everything.

• 1:17:34David Sims?

  Wow.

• 1:17:34Griffin Newman?

  Capturing Bigfoot reveals the untold story behind the world's greatest mystery, told for the first time by Patterson's own son and the people who were there. This is a story about family legacy, broken friendships, and how far people will go to protect a secret.

• 1:17:48David Sims?

  Of course, you got the classic, what they call Patterson Gimlin film everyone knows, of Bigfoot out in the woods, like the famous Bigfoot picture. This has other stuff shot by him that no one's ever seen. That's what makes this movie different.

• 1:17:59Griffin Newman?

  But we're also talking brand new 4K scans of the original film taken from the Patterson family archives that some historians have called the best rendering of the footage ever seen.

• 1:18:08David Sims?

  I feel like we've all seen that footage as like grainy.

• 1:18:11Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:18:11David Sims?

  You know, that you see, you know, whatever, you see it in a documentary for two seconds. But this is restoring it and making it look much more clear.

• 1:18:18Griffin Newman?

  There's also a companion podcast, the Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, which goes deeper into the legend and lore of Bigfoot and the Patterson Gimlin film, featuring weekly episodes with experts in cryptozoology, urban legends, and filmmaking.

• 1:18:32David Sims?

  I'm something of an expert in cryptozoology.

• 1:18:34Griffin Newman?

  Well, of course, yes, but that's more of a hobby.

• 1:18:37David Sims?

  Yeah, this podcast, Capturing Bigfoot Podcast is hosted by the director of the film, Mark Evans, and it's available for free on YouTube and Spotify with exclusive episodes and content available on Patreon to members of the Capturing Bigfoot Society.

• 1:18:53Griffin Newman?

  Capturing Bigfoot is now available to rent or own on Amazon Prime Video. Learn more about Capturing Bigfoot at capturingbigfoot.com.

• 1:19:10Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:19:10David Sims?

  Yes?

• 1:19:11Griffin Newman?

  Nobody likes bank fees. Why would you like them?

• 1:19:15David Sims?

  When I was younger,

• 1:19:16Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:19:17David Sims?

  I really would have benefited from a bank that did not charge me fees anytime I did anything, basically, which is, I feel like, what I was always dealing with.

• 1:19:25Griffin Newman?

  Chime. That's where Chime comes in. Chime.

• 1:19:28David Sims?

  They're changing the way people bank. They're not like traditional banks who charge fees and get keep perks and rewards. They offer the most rewarding fee-free banking, all with no overdraft fees, no monthly fees, and no minimum balance fees. Okay?

• 1:19:41Griffin Newman?

  We love being fee-free. We love it.

• 1:19:43David Sims?

  You're gonna get 5% cash back on a Chime card in a category of your choice, like gas or groceries.

• 1:19:49Griffin Newman?

  My two favorite things.

• 1:19:50David Sims?

  All while building credit through regular everyday spending with no credit check, and you can grow your money faster with a savings rate that's nine times the national average. And if you're ever in a pinch, SpotMe lets you overdraft up to $200 fee-free.

• 1:20:03Griffin Newman?

  Fee-free?

• 1:20:04David Sims?

  So, join the millions who are already banking fee-free with America's number one choice for banking. Head to chime.com/blankcheck. That is chime.com/blankcheck. Sign up now. It only takes a few minutes.

• 1:20:19Speaker 05

  Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Qualifying direct deposits required. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com/disclosures for details.

• 1:20:40Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:20:40David Sims?

  Yes?

• 1:20:41Griffin Newman?

  He lurks in shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula, a new full cast audio thriller starring Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, and an A-list cast, including Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, Amy Lou Wood as Lucy, David Johnson as Dr. Seward, and many more. That is an all-star cast.

• 1:21:02David Sims?

  Yeah, this new full cast thriller locks Mina Harker in a battle of minds with the Count. When Mina's fiance, Jonathan Harker, Louis Partridge, vanishes in Transylvania, Mina pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula's already hunting her.

• 1:21:21Griffin Newman?

  Joined by the enigmatic Van Helsing, Mina and a small fearless band race against time to stop this ancient terror. Using her intellect, her resolve, and a gift for drawing the unseen lines between clues, Mina may just hold the key to bring down the Count if he hasn't already found his way inside her mind.

• 1:21:37David Sims?

  Featuring a haunting original score by Elon Eschery and a spatial dolby Atmos sound design, Audible's Dracula invites you to welcome literature's most shadowy figure into your home. Feel the terror of being hunted and the thrill of the hunt. Don't miss this year's best new audio thriller, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Audible's new full cast original adaptation. Written by Robin Ahern, now on Audible. Listen to the darkness. Go to audible.com/listen to Dracula.

• 1:22:10David Sims?

  Hail Caesar is about Eddie Mannix. Sort of about. It's set in the early 50s in Hollywood.

• 1:22:17Griffin Newman?

  It is about a character named Eddie Mannix.

• 1:22:18David Sims?

  Right, who is, the Coens said, like, the real Eddie Mannix was like a thug who'd beat people up and threaten people.

• 1:22:23Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:22:23David Sims?

  We didn't really want that vibe. Right, exactly.

• 1:22:26Griffin Newman?

  But they do a lot of this of like, Papio Daniel being 90% of the name of a real guy. Sometimes they'll like base a character on a person and then be like, we're still gonna name it after them, even though we've made it not actually one-to-one anymore.

• 1:22:38David Sims?

  He works at Capital Pictures, which of course is the same studio from Barton Fink. And he is a fixer, so he deals with scandals and he massages egos and he basically just kind of like handles problems for the studio.

• 1:22:51Griffin Newman?

  In an era where because of studio contracts, studios viewed stars as investments, they were property, they were a thing that they had to like manage and build and maintain. And this weird, it's often when this is talked about, is talked about in a very dark way of people like Eddie Mannix who'd like maybe murder people, you know? And do these things by like force and like covering up the seedy side. But the magic of this movie is this quiet Eddie Mannix arc is he is being courted by Lockheed Martin, a normal company that's never done anything wrong for a stable job.

• 1:23:24David Sims?

  At the dawn of the space age.

• 1:23:26Griffin Newman?

  With better hours and the promise that you would get stock options. So even if you quit in a couple of years, you'd be set for life. And do you want a more normal life? They're also telling him that they're working on something really big, which happens to be the hydrogen bomb. Kind of a scary thing, but they're sort of like, aren't you done doing frivolous like fucking singing cowboy pictures?

• 1:23:44Speaker 01

  It's just the most serious thing you could imagine.

• 1:23:46Griffin Newman?

  Babysitting divas.

• 1:23:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:48Griffin Newman?

  Right. We do serious things like bombs. And the magic of this movie is this very quiet arc that Josh Brolin plays basically through looks and in between words because it is classic Josh Brolin stoicism with something kind of softer going on inside where this guy is slowly kind of realizing why he cares about this shit. That he is, at the end of the day, kind of dirty show folk, do his score, even though he is the type A, normal businessman version of that. The reason he's here is because he loves this shit and he loves these people for as much as they drive him crazy. He would be doing something creative if he could, but he's doing this because it's the most creative adjacent thing he can do.

• 1:24:30David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:24:31Griffin Newman?

  With his weird powers of like alpha dog, you know, negotiation.

• 1:24:36Griffin Newman?

  Um, but yeah, it's like it, he ends up, what the movie's set over like 24 hours?

• 1:24:41David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, yeah. Starts at night, ends the next night.

• 1:24:45Griffin Newman?

  I guess it's 40.

• 1:24:46David Sims?

  Forty eight hours.

• 1:24:46Griffin Newman?

  Thirty six.

• 1:24:47David Sims?

  Whatever.

• 1:24:48Griffin Newman?

  A short timeframe, but.

• 1:24:49David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:24:49Griffin Newman?

  A, just a kind of whirlwind of problems that he's trying to fix while also being courted for this job.

• 1:24:55David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:24:56Griffin Newman?

  Uh, and questioning why he wants to.

• 1:24:58David Sims?

  Run down the problems.

• 1:24:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:59David Sims?

  George Clooney plays Baird Whitlock, who's this sort of like aging movie star with a hint of lavender to your, hint of lavender to him, as they used to say.

• 1:25:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:09David Sims?

  Like the joke being that, like there would be, like, Robert Taylor is the, the example they're drafting off of. Like guys where people would be like, he's secretly gay and maybe like slept his way to stardom. Totally scurrilous, like no, no actual.

• 1:25:22Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:25:22David Sims?

  Like evidence for this, but it would become a thing in the 50s.

• 1:25:25Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:25:26David Sims?

  Um, because that's what, uh, on, what's the, on Wings of Eagles, what?

• 1:25:30Griffin Newman?

  On Wing, on Wings of, on Wings and Eagles?

• 1:25:34David Sims?

  Like, that's what they're referencing.

• 1:25:35Griffin Newman?

  One of the best sound effects, right? Yes, yes, but I also, I think it could be read as like.

• 1:25:39Speaker 01

  Eagles.

• 1:25:40Griffin Newman?

  Yes, it's such a good title.

• 1:25:42Speaker 01

  On Wings as Eagles.

• 1:25:43Griffin Newman?

  There's obviously ambiguity in it. I also think it could be.

• 1:25:46David Sims?

  I'm quoting the Coens when I say the lavender thing.

• 1:25:48Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 1:25:48David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:49Griffin Newman?

  There, it could be read as this was one strategic, like casting couch decision he made to get his foot in the door versus a closeted sexuality.

• 1:25:57David Sims?

  Hanky panky in his past.

• 1:25:59Griffin Newman?

  Next. Seemingly happened. Everyone reacts with the intensity of.

• 1:26:03David Sims?

  Ooh, we can't talk about.

• 1:26:04Griffin Newman?

  There's a touch of truth to that.

• 1:26:05David Sims?

  Um, so he gets kidnapped by a bunch of Marxist writers, communist writers.

• 1:26:11Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:26:11David Sims?

  Who wish to, uh, sort of rearrange his brain in support of their principles.

• 1:26:16Griffin Newman?

  They're deeply radicalized. They've been trying to smuggle communist ideology into the margins of their studio for higher work. But now they've decided they need to do something to change the system because.

• 1:26:26David Sims?

  Bunch of guys.

• 1:26:27Speaker 01

  And each of them is more exciting to see than the last.

• 1:26:29David Sims?

  Melamed, Patrick Fishler, Fisher Stevens, Alex Karpovski. I might forget. There's a couple of other guys.

• 1:26:36Griffin Newman?

  Uh, yeah, it's incredible group.

• 1:26:38David Sims?

  Greg Baldwin, who's the, um, the big guy, uh.

• 1:26:40Griffin Newman?

  Who's the British, oh, with the, the perma pout?

• 1:26:43David Sims?

  Right, yeah, who wrote all the.

• 1:26:44Griffin Newman?

  Who's the British guy who does most of the talking?

• 1:26:46David Sims?

  Who is the British?

• 1:26:46Griffin Newman?

  That guy rocks.

• 1:26:47Speaker 03

  The best guy is the guy who keeps saying, shut up.

• 1:26:50Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:26:51Speaker 01

  Oh, uh, Max Baker.

• 1:26:52David Sims?

  Max Baker, yeah, I don't know where they found that guy, but he's so mellifluous.

• 1:26:56Griffin Newman?

  But they, they basically are trying to radicalize Clooney. They're using him as a hostage to get the cash they want, but also as a bargaining chip to try to change the system because they think if they can win him over while he's being held ransom, that he will be at the forefront of their argument, which is basically them trying to create some system of profit sharing. It is basically them arguing for like residuals and profit participation.

• 1:27:23David Sims?

  Right, they don't actually have like insanely, they're, they're, they're pretty silly. They're fun and silly.

• 1:27:27Griffin Newman?

  They do wanna hand a fucking briefcase of cash over to Dolph Lundgren on a Russian submarine.

• 1:27:33David Sims?

  But like, they don't understand what they're doing with that, basically.

• 1:27:36Griffin Newman?

  They're a study group, guys. Ultimately, this is like, what I love about it is like, for how much they're espousing serious political opinion, the actual means to an end for them is, they would like it if they had nice houses too. That here they are, meeting at Channing Tatum's house, which is like the most beautiful Hollywood home you've ever seen, and all these guys are like, I get paid $200 a week to write scripts, and if one's a hit, I don't get any upside from it, you know?

• 1:28:01David Sims?

  They're...

• 1:28:02Griffin Newman?

  It is the thing that allowed the destruction of the studio system is, it gave actors the ability to build a career without career stability of a guaranteed contract, because if you hit, you'd hit big, and it could cover the times where you weren't working.

• 1:28:20David Sims?

  The next most important character, I feel like, is Alden Ehrenreich, is Hobie Doyle, who is in four movies at once, essentially. He's like going from movie, he's like shooting a western, a comedy, a cowboy musical, or...

• 1:28:33Griffin Newman?

  The cowboy musical's wrapped, he's going to the premiere. That's done.

• 1:28:36David Sims?

  Right, that's done, you're right. Okay, so he's shooting, right, the western and the society comedy at the same time, and then...

• 1:28:42Griffin Newman?

  The big pivot point is, here's a guy who's a B star, he makes programmers in a sort of like

• 1:28:47David Sims?

  He's a Geno Atri, whatever.

• 1:28:49Griffin Newman?

  genre, right? And they're going like, does this kid have the X factor? Could we like, develop him into something more? He gets slotted into an A movie, and all the pressure is on is like, this is the test.

• 1:29:03David Sims?

  Uh, which he's not doing very well at. And of course, he's being directed by Lawrence Lorentz.

• 1:29:07Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:29:08David Sims?

  Played by Ray Fiennes.

• 1:29:09Griffin Newman?

  Which turns out to be the person that Baird Whitlock allegedly had.

• 1:29:14David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:29:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:29:15Griffin Newman?

  I like just how tightly.

• 1:29:17David Sims?

  There are a lot of hints and references, exactly. You're right, to how things crossed over in the past or are, yes.

• 1:29:22Griffin Newman?

  And it's almost structured like a mystery novel.

• 1:29:26David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:29:26Griffin Newman?

  You know, there is like.

• 1:29:27Speaker 01

  It's a whodunwho. It's a whodun- yeah.

• 1:29:29Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:29:29David Sims?

  Well, well, well.

• 1:29:30Speaker 01

  Well, well, well.

• 1:29:31Griffin Newman?

  There's a touch of.

• 1:29:32David Sims?

  That's a bit saucy.

• 1:29:33Griffin Newman?

  Hammett, you know, all these like, kind of gumshoe books that they love and like hard-boiled noir and whatever, where like, the answers kind of happen in the margins. You don't have a scene where Humphrey Bogart like explains everything he figured out about the Maltese Falcon.

• 1:29:48Speaker 01

  The footnotes are available to you if you want to look for them.

• 1:29:50Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Yes. But it happens, and part of it's the fast talk and constantly moving Hollywood thing, that like, stuff's just getting thrown out as like collateral.

• 1:30:01David Sims?

  Right. Uh, I don't know exactly who Lawrence Lorentz, cause like, people bring up like Vincent D'Amelio or like Kukor or whatever, but like, those guys were American. But it's like, yeah, those sort of like, Lubitsch sort of makes sense.

• 1:30:14Griffin Newman?

  It's one of these touch of class.

• 1:30:15David Sims?

  You know, guy from Europe.

• 1:30:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:17David Sims?

  Who's more urbane and literate and all that.

• 1:30:21Griffin Newman?

  Any of these directors are one to one with anyone.

• 1:30:23Speaker 01

  Who says things like mirthless chuckle.

• 1:30:25David Sims?

  Uh, mirthless chuckle. We can use Christian names, boy.

• 1:30:28Griffin Newman?

  This is a movie where you could have given it all five best supporting actor nominations.

• 1:30:32David Sims?

  I think we talked about that that year at the blankies, 100%.

• 1:30:35Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:30:35David Sims?

  Uh, so you've got Scarlett Johansson as Deanna Moran, who's a.

• 1:30:40Griffin Newman?

  Elegant Esther Williams bathing beauty, who actually is like a hard-boiled.

• 1:30:43David Sims?

  Who's like, hey, fuck you.

• 1:30:44Griffin Newman?

  Brooklyn tuck-tuck.

• 1:30:45Speaker 01

  That's her favorite accent to do, right?

• 1:30:47David Sims?

  She's pretty good at it, and she has been knocked up by somebody. She thinks she knows the guy.

• 1:30:54Griffin Newman?

  We believe it is the director played by Christopher Lambert.

• 1:30:58David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:30:58Griffin Newman?

  Um, which I feel like is also this model of like, these like, kind of severe, brutish, alpha, European men who would become like dictator directors of the studio system. The movie's so good at capturing the different types of like, who were career directors at this point in time? And like, you have your kind of like corsage, like champagne.

• 1:31:21Speaker 01

  I can't say this word.

• 1:31:22David Sims?

  Aesthetic?

• 1:31:23Speaker 01

  Aesthetic, no, but estet.

• 1:31:25Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:31:25David Sims?

  Asteet.

• 1:31:26Speaker 01

  Asteet?

• 1:31:27Griffin Newman?

  But also a guy who's like, my name means something. I have a reputation to present versus like these guys who are like, I show up, I yell at five people and get it done.

• 1:31:35Speaker 01

  And I show you a picture of me skiing.

• 1:31:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:37Speaker 01

  Cause I am macho.

• 1:31:38David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:31:39Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:31:39David Sims?

  Then, those are the three main storylines. And you have smaller characters like Frances McDormand as an editor, who's sort of like a Margaret Booth, like lots of famous lady editors.

• 1:31:47Griffin Newman?

  Jonah Hill.

• 1:31:48David Sims?

  Tilda Swinton is twin, identical twin gossip columnist.

• 1:31:52Speaker 01

  Eddie.

• 1:31:53David Sims?

  And sort of like the head of Hopper, what's it called, Luella Parsons, like, yes.

• 1:31:57Speaker 01

  What kind of name is Thesaly?

• 1:31:58Griffin Newman?

  The, the deep bucket of just simple pleasures in this movie, every time either of her characters says Eddie.

• 1:32:04David Sims?

  She's really.

• 1:32:06Griffin Newman?

  I, I'm just, I transcend to a higher plane of existence.

• 1:32:10David Sims?

  Channing Tatum, who really just has the one big scene, Alison Pill, who is Eddie's wife. Wayne Knight, of course, is the wonderful operative who kidnaps bears.

• 1:32:21Griffin Newman?

  You can never totally trust an extra.

• 1:32:23Speaker 01

  You see him and you think sus.

• 1:32:25David Sims?

  And then.

• 1:32:25Griffin Newman?

  And I love that he says, now, mind you, some of them are good.

• 1:32:29David Sims?

  Jonah Hill.

• 1:32:29Griffin Newman?

  Don't want to paint with a broad brush.

• 1:32:31David Sims?

  Who maybe we want to talk about now as a sort of.

• 1:32:35Griffin Newman?

  Professional person is the thing they say, which is so funny.

• 1:32:38David Sims?

  Yes, technically a sort of, he's like a bondsman or whatever.

• 1:32:41Speaker 01

  I still feel like an amateur person. What about you guys?

• 1:32:43David Sims?

  Same.

• 1:32:44Griffin Newman?

  But it's also.

• 1:32:45David Sims?

  Better than ever, honestly.

• 1:32:46Griffin Newman?

  It's also.

• 1:32:47David Sims?

  Semi-pro.

• 1:32:48Griffin Newman?

  It's part of the weird machinery of this, of like the relationship that the studios have with the gossip columnists, right? Where like sometimes they are basically working them to carry water for them, to help sell a fictional narrative. And sometimes they are working overtime to try to squash a potential narrative that they would actually want to crack journalistically. And so all of this machinery of maintaining the images and the reputations of these stars.

• 1:33:16Griffin Newman?

  And yes, Jonah Hill is this guy who's like a bail bondsman, but also his real utility is they will pay him money to basically slide the crimes or misdiscretions, indiscretions, misdeeds of any major star onto him. And he will take the rap or pay the fee or do the time or whatever it is.

• 1:33:34David Sims?

  The fall guy.

• 1:33:35Griffin Newman?

  And is paid handsomely to be the fall guy so that none of these stories ever stick to these people.

• 1:33:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:39Griffin Newman?

  Jonah Hill is on screen for.

• 1:33:43Griffin Newman?

  Ninety seconds, he has one scene.

• 1:33:45David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:33:45Griffin Newman?

  They use every line of dialogue he has in the trailer. They put him all over the fucking trailer.

• 1:33:50David Sims?

  Cause he was hot stuff at the time, you know, 21 Jump Street era Jonah Hill.

• 1:33:55Griffin Newman?

  But I have often contested that this is the smallest role to receive a designated character poster, as David turned his laptop around maybe one hour ago.

• 1:34:04David Sims?

  It's low there. It's down low.

• 1:34:06Griffin Newman?

  It's the funniest character poster, just big Jonah Hill head with owl glasses.

• 1:34:10Speaker 01

  Well, it also says Hill.

• 1:34:12Griffin Newman?

  It says Hill.

• 1:34:12Speaker 01

  It's humongous.

• 1:34:14Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:34:14Speaker 01

  And then Hail Caesar is smaller. So you are like, this guy is the star.

• 1:34:19Griffin Newman?

  Right. If that was the only poster you had seen for this movie.

• 1:34:23David Sims?

  The joke, of course, is that he's, the scheme they work out is that Deanna will have the baby, give him the baby legally. And then she will adopt the baby almost immediately and act like she's doing it out of the goodness of her heart, not because she's the mother of the baby.

• 1:34:37Griffin Newman?

  Right. Because the father of the child is the director of No Dan.

• 1:34:41David Sims?

  Schandless.

• 1:34:42Griffin Newman?

  Who has a wife and children back in his home country.

• 1:34:44David Sims?

  Not acceptable.

• 1:34:45Griffin Newman?

  So they can't break that up.

• 1:34:46David Sims?

  But anyway, she ends up falling in love with Jonah Hill and they get married.

• 1:34:49Griffin Newman?

  Which is very sweet and is something that basically, right, happens off screen, offhand comment.

• 1:34:53Speaker 01

  They went on like one date and then went immediately to Palm Springs and then got married the next day.

• 1:34:57Griffin Newman?

  She just immediately locks in on this guy in a scene that's so funny where he's giving like anti charisma very well.

• 1:35:03Speaker 01

  But he's reassuring.

• 1:35:04Griffin Newman?

  Yes. And he's, dare I say, he's a serious man. I think she respects that this guy's got like a focus.

• 1:35:12David Sims?

  I think this film is such a fascinating counterpart to Barton Fink, which is like about a person who is outside of this bubble, thinks he's better than it.

• 1:35:20Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:35:20David Sims?

  And will not like lower himself to the trash, you know, it represents or whatever, and never like gets anywhere. So he's trapped in hell.

• 1:35:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:28David Sims?

  And this is like inside the bubble, all that he's doing is dealing with problems, right? It's like, it's like big, complex clockwork machinery and he's just sort of walking around like fixing shit.

• 1:35:38Griffin Newman?

  Like dark and silly.

• 1:35:40David Sims?

  Yes, often kind of nasty and he has to just sort of be like pragmatic about everything.

• 1:35:44Speaker 01

  But I think it's important to point out that it's not always so in the bubble that it's like navel gazy and insular about itself.

• 1:35:50David Sims?

  It's literal, like little, like he has to just like.

• 1:35:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:53Griffin Newman?

  He's like a mafia preschool teacher.

• 1:35:55Speaker 01

  You have, I mean, you have one, you have the Jonah Hill character, but I think he exists in a different, like that there's a Venn diagram here, but the two, the twin journalists, like one of the, one of the problems one of them has is that she considers herself an actual entertainment reporter,

• 1:36:10Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:36:10Speaker 01

  trade reporter.

• 1:36:11Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:36:12Speaker 01

  Versus a gossip columnist, right? And that feels like a little bit of like, it's both very inside baseball, but it's also the real world bleeding in with the judgment of the work that they do.

• 1:36:22Griffin Newman?

  Right, and people keep getting them confused.

• 1:36:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think, yeah, exactly.

• 1:36:25Griffin Newman?

  Saying the wrong thing to the wrong person or repeating it twice with an attitude, yeah.

• 1:36:29Speaker 01

  And I think without that piece, you get a film that's way too insular.

• 1:36:32Griffin Newman?

  I agree.

• 1:36:33Speaker 01

  But, but because of this, because of this, it's delightful.

• 1:36:36Griffin Newman?

  I also think this movie has such a love of film history and a sort of recognition of like, not like, uh, things used to be better. It, it's weirdly, this movie is simultaneously more cynical and more romantic than Barton Fink, which is the fascinating juxtaposition.

• 1:36:50David Sims?

  It is largely cynical, but then at the end of the day, it is about the system working.

• 1:36:55Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:36:56David Sims?

  And then the one guy, the one real problem, uh, that Eddie actually has to solve, most of the problems sort, sort themselves out.

• 1:37:02Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:37:03David Sims?

  Is Baird returning and being like, I'm a communist now. Like, I, I, we must, and him just being like, no, golden age of Hollywood works. You know, like you are not allowed to defy this system.

• 1:37:14Griffin Newman?

  But also in 20 years, it will be dead.

• 1:37:15David Sims?

  A hundred percent, but.

• 1:37:16Griffin Newman?

  Can't fight the future and the future is on the phone.

• 1:37:18David Sims?

  Eddie is just like, you will do what you do. You're, you know, you're a member of this machine, just like me.

• 1:37:26Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:37:26David Sims?

  And Baird's like, okay, and he does it, you know, and George gives the big speech at the end.

• 1:37:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:30David Sims?

  And it's like, great, that's exactly, that's how this works.

• 1:37:32Griffin Newman?

  And you're watching Clooney magic of like, oh, right, George Clooney is George Clooney. We've had so much fun watching him play like a fucking idiot behind the eight ball, trying to figure it out. Clooney so well playing.

• 1:37:44Speaker 01

  Oh, Clooney.

• 1:37:45Griffin Newman?

  The awkwardness of trying to be in casual positions, wearing that costume. He does so much good business with readjusting, you know, these like chess plates that shouldn't be in like a lounge chair.

• 1:37:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:57David Sims?

  I think all of those physical bits are funny with a sword and all that.

• 1:38:00Griffin Newman?

  But then we get to this final moment where you see him deliver the big monologue and Clooney like a fucking movie star, holds the camera and turns it on and nails it. And you're like, right, Baird Whitlock. Might be a moron to a degree, but also there's a reason he's their top star. And here's the magic and then he loses it and the take is blown. And everyone's like, yeah, that's what the movies are. We'll just try it again.

• 1:38:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:21Griffin Newman?

  And you feel like you're witnessing a miracle and then the miracle falls apart.

• 1:38:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, but he understands the words be a star.

• 1:38:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:27Speaker 01

  Right? Like, anyway.

• 1:38:29Griffin Newman?

  You think?

• 1:38:29Speaker 01

  David, go.

• 1:38:30David Sims?

  The Coens are steeped enough in movie history to know that there is something so hilarious about. You watch some old movie that's great, some, you know, classic movie. And you're like, oh God, this is great. And then you read the behind the scenes thing and it's basically like,

• 1:38:47Griffin Newman?

  The most sordid shit imaginable.

• 1:38:48David Sims?

  Everyone was on fucking speed or gay or a communist or insane.

• 1:38:52Griffin Newman?

  They were on gay communist speed.

• 1:38:55Speaker 01

  Sleeping with each other.

• 1:38:56David Sims?

  The whole thing was created through like blackmail and coercion and madness.

• 1:39:00Griffin Newman?

  Twenty people got murdered in the making of this film.

• 1:39:03David Sims?

  And you're like, wait, just to create this sort of like delightful confection that I watched today, you know, on TCM?

• 1:39:10Speaker 01

  And like to help you escape, they had to go through hell.

• 1:39:13David Sims?

  It's like the movie Babylon, which is loud and obnoxious. And a movie I like a lot in many ways, but it's like sort of the loudest version of like, don't you realize how insane Hollywood was? This is a much more whimsical.

• 1:39:26Griffin Newman?

  I love Babylon, but I think this movie gets at a lot of the same ideas a lot better.

• 1:39:29Speaker 01

  Without having an elephant defecate on camera.

• 1:39:31David Sims?

  Yeah, and I believe half the time. I can't remember how long Babylon was, but it's long.

• 1:39:36Griffin Newman?

  A couple of days at least. Um, no, I, yes, you're right. And it's like the movie is making.

• 1:39:41David Sims?

  Three hours and nine minutes.

• 1:39:42Griffin Newman?

  Good.

• 1:39:43Speaker 01

  Ooh, those nine minutes were necessary.

• 1:39:46David Sims?

  The people at Paramount's eating razor blades, the death scream.

• 1:39:49Griffin Newman?

  But David, remember that two of those minutes were Avatar.

• 1:39:53David Sims?

  That's so true.

• 1:39:53Griffin Newman?

  So who's laughing now?

• 1:39:54David Sims?

  T2 was in there too.

• 1:39:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Um, I think that, uh, this is a really good, like, everything has always been great. Everything's always been terrible movie.

• 1:40:04David Sims?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:40:05Griffin Newman?

  These two things like exist in tandem, but also, um, the sort of like Sullivan's travels thing, which it makes sort of unspoken, but is like, Eddie Maddox is like, I'm like losing sleep and barely seeing my kids. And I'm so stressed out and I'm eating this fucking. Microwave plate of loose meats. You know, as I like try to unwind before I go back to the office for another night shift of dealing with nonsense.

• 1:40:29David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:40:29Griffin Newman?

  Why am I doing this? And it isn't serious work, like in the name of what?

• 1:40:33David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:40:34Griffin Newman?

  And the opposite is Lockheed Martin will give you like shiny tchotchkes and a nice office and everyone there will behave like a proper adult gentleman and you'll bomb people.

• 1:40:42David Sims?

  But right, the gag is that Lockheed Martin all right, looks, it seems like, we like what you do. We think it would be perfect for creating death that rains hellfire across the earth.

• 1:40:51Griffin Newman?

  And is Eddie not at the Lazy Old Moon premiere?

• 1:40:54Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:40:55Griffin Newman?

  But I feel like in that scene, you get the Sullivan's travels.

• 1:40:58David Sims?

  Moment, please.

• 1:40:59Griffin Newman?

  Eddie images, please.

• 1:41:01Speaker 01

  Not the real Eddie Mannix.

• 1:41:02Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Is that in that?

• 1:41:05Speaker 01

  Be careful.

• 1:41:06David Sims?

  That's what the real Eddie Mannix is always talking about.

• 1:41:08Speaker 01

  Stop threatening me.

• 1:41:09David Sims?

  Never.

• 1:41:09Griffin Newman?

  How much people are laughing at this old coot falling into like a fucking water trough, right? And you're like, this is why you do it.

• 1:41:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:17Griffin Newman?

  Like, this might be the silliest movie ever made.

• 1:41:20Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I want to go back to what you were saying about when he's with Francis and they're editing that reel and he has that look on his face. That look doesn't say like, I have so much power, I could make this happen. That look instead is like awe and tenderness toward this strip of.

• 1:41:35Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:41:37Speaker 01

  Five seconds of a scene.

• 1:41:38Griffin Newman?

  But you're right. He's not patting himself on the back for like, I always knew it. And he's also not doing this kind of maudlin tears in his eyes. Like, I, I love Moneyball, but there's the Moneyball moment where Jonah Hill shows Brad Pitt, Normal Marriage. The, uh, the clip of the guy who doesn't know that he's hit a home run.

• 1:41:53David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:41:54Griffin Newman?

  And, and Pitt has his incredible moment. Right. And it's like, there's a version of this that is entirely unspoken because Eddie Mannix is a guy who would never let himself say anything like that.

• 1:42:03Speaker 01

  But I also think it's the, it's, it's, it's very Coens.

• 1:42:06Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:42:07Speaker 01

  Like, like they never push it that far.

• 1:42:09Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:42:09Speaker 01

  In this, like, it's like, it's, or, or ever.

• 1:42:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:13Speaker 01

  I mean, here's the thing, right? Like, we're talking about the juxtapositions and everything working in tandem. And I think it's because there's, they clearly now we're, we're many years removed from this, from this, and they have their own projects.

• 1:42:22Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:42:23Speaker 01

  They have their own visions. And I think because their visions have competed, I don't know, without us really knowing it in these films, that's why there's this push and pull and a balance to what we're seeing.

• 1:42:33Griffin Newman?

  I think so too.

• 1:42:34David Sims?

  Now, can I talk about my favorite scene in the movie?

• 1:42:35Griffin Newman?

  Please.

• 1:42:36David Sims?

  I used to do a feature at the Atlantic where I summed up my 10 favorite.

• 1:42:39Speaker 01

  Oh, I know it.

• 1:42:40David Sims?

  Scenes of the year.

• 1:42:40Griffin Newman?

  Bring it back. It's a good feature.

• 1:42:42David Sims?

  A lot of work.

• 1:42:43Griffin Newman?

  Good feature.

• 1:42:43Speaker 01

  It's an comma scene.

• 1:42:44Griffin Newman?

  What else do you have to do with your time?

• 1:42:46David Sims?

  No, the problem is that it would always come at the end of the year, which is like an incredibly busy time for my editors, where they're doing all these other top 10 shit. And yeah, anyway, never, I would love to bring it back. But my favorite scene in In Hail Caesar is the scene where he talks to the religious leaders.

• 1:43:01Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:43:01David Sims?

  About the divine presence that they have yet to shoot in the movie. And it is-

• 1:43:06Griffin Newman?

  The incredible Robert Picardo.

• 1:43:08David Sims?

  Picardo's so good.

• 1:43:10Griffin Newman?

  Just fucking raining please.

• 1:43:12David Sims?

  What, does he have a dog?

• 1:43:13Griffin Newman?

  As a rabbi who's willing to play.

• 1:43:17Griffin Newman?

  If I haven't an opinion.

• 1:43:21David Sims?

  The correct assumption, of course, that they would get Protestant clergyman, played by the great Alan Harvey, an actor I love, a stand-up, you know, very funny guy.

• 1:43:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, great on Mad Men.

• 1:43:32David Sims?

  Incredible on Mad Men is that guy that fucking hated Don Draper so goddamn much.

• 1:43:36Griffin Newman?

  The fucking grumpy boss who secretly, all he wants to do is draw-

• 1:43:39David Sims?

  Do the cartoon?

• 1:43:40Griffin Newman?

  A fucking comic book.

• 1:43:44Griffin Newman?

  That's the shit that makes Mad Men the best TV show of all time is you're like, this guy is killing it as like grumpy boss who doesn't like unconventional ways.

• 1:43:52David Sims?

  Who's a thorn in Don's side.

• 1:43:53Griffin Newman?

  And you're like, oh, I would have no notes about this and I would happily take this all day. And then the shameful secret of this guy is he spends all his extra time trying a little fucking three panel strip about a silly duck that isn't good.

• 1:44:08David Sims?

  Wait, what, what is the name? It's so, I'm trying to remember the, the name of the comic book that he draws. Um, but anyway, um, sorry, I'll find it later. Um, and, uh, right, they wouldn't, you know, they're not getting a Imam in here or like, uh, they're just, it's like a Catholic priest, Greek Orthodox priest and a rabbi.

• 1:44:27Griffin Newman?

  Who's closest? It's like checkbox one of each in the surrounding 10 mile area.

• 1:44:31David Sims?

  And it's this perfect parody, I feel like of, I don't even know if the Coens were going for this.

• 1:44:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:38David Sims?

  But of movie making, especially right at that time, like right pre-Trump.

• 1:44:42Griffin Newman?

  I would argue it kind of presages it, like you think about-

• 1:44:44David Sims?

  Yes, exactly. We need to calibrate our message so it appeals to everyone without offending anyone, but it's still gonna be about a sensitive topic. Can you help us, please?

• 1:44:53Griffin Newman?

  This movie comes out six months before Ghostbusters answered the call. Like, I just think that's interesting that what you're saying is like, this is, they were like meeting the moment of something circular coming around again that tends to happen in 20 year rotations of the entertainment industry being like, we have to be important. In everything we do, and it's always this kind of hollow.

• 1:45:14Speaker 01

  And yet.

• 1:45:15Griffin Newman?

  Diagrammed, yes.

• 1:45:16Speaker 01

  And yet, in the work in progress frame, it says divine presence to be shot.

• 1:45:22Griffin Newman?

  So good.

• 1:45:23David Sims?

  Very funny.

• 1:45:23Speaker 01

  I mean, and because the scene itself feels like the setup to a joke, right?

• 1:45:26Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:45:26Speaker 01

  Like a rabbi and a Protestant padre of some sort.

• 1:45:28Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:45:29Speaker 01

  And a, what was the other one?

• 1:45:30Griffin Newman?

  They're basically.

• 1:45:31Speaker 01

  Walk into a bar.

• 1:45:32Griffin Newman?

  What I like about it is he's framing it as like, my esteemed men.

• 1:45:37David Sims?

  Right, hey, I just want to check with you that this is okay.

• 1:45:40Griffin Newman?

  I want your blessing and your insight.

• 1:45:41David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:45:41Griffin Newman?

  But they're squabbling so much that he eventually gets down to the brass tacks of just like, I just need to know that we're not accidentally doing anything offensive. He's acting like he's bringing them in as like esteemed consultants, and really, he's just like, are you guys gonna complain about any of this shit when the movie comes out?

• 1:45:56Speaker 01

  But it's also why this movie holds up, where it's just kind of like, he brought them in, and now, it's like, well, that's enough.

• 1:46:02Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:46:03Speaker 01

  We've, we did that.

• 1:46:05Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:46:05Speaker 01

  They came in.

• 1:46:06Griffin Newman?

  Right, right. We, we can say, in the marketing, which is part of the machinery, Jeffrey Cantor, I just want to call out, plays Sid Segelstein, who is the lawyer at Capital Pictures.

• 1:46:16David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:46:17Griffin Newman?

  Who sort of facilitates the deal with Jonah Hill and Scarlett Johansson. An actor I worked with on Patrick Willem's short film, which will maybe be out by the time of this release, The Dinner Plan. He is so fucking goodness.

• 1:46:30David Sims?

  Right, and he's like, it's never been done before, about the adoption, or, but like, you know, yes, that guy.

• 1:46:34Griffin Newman?

  They're pitching him, like, what's a way we can get Johansson's baby? And he and Mannix start to like piece together, like, is there a way to have her adopt it? We'd have to get a foster parent, this and that. And he's reacting with the energy of like, an artist being hit with inspiration. He's like, huh, that's good. I like that. And he's not, it's not like a, um, a dark energy. It's like, all of these people are artists, right? Like, Mannix loves figuring out how to talk to different people.

• 1:47:04David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:47:05Griffin Newman?

  And get what he needs out of them.

• 1:47:06David Sims?

  Sort of a joy in it, or a skill, or whatever.

• 1:47:07Griffin Newman?

  And this weird lawyer, who you just imagined, has been covering up some of the darkest, most criminal shit. Loves being like, oh, what if we did this?

• 1:47:16Speaker 01

  It's a puzzle to solve, yeah.

• 1:47:18Griffin Newman?

  Right, and he underplays it, but it's so fucking good.

• 1:47:21David Sims?

  And this is all in service of making silly movies for us.

• 1:47:24Griffin Newman?

  And, and so that the silly movies aren't ruined. They're not tarnished by the real world.

• 1:47:28David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:47:29Speaker 01

  Lazy Old Moon is the most serious movie I've ever seen.

• 1:47:32David Sims?

  Oh, that's so true.

• 1:47:33Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:47:33David Sims?

  And actually, I've heard that they're remaking it for modern day, but it's woke.

• 1:47:37Speaker 01

  Well, you can't wake up the moon.

• 1:47:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:40David Sims?

  Yeah, right. Don't disturb the moon. I don't know what the.

• 1:47:43Griffin Newman?

  This time it's gonna be lazy old Venus.

• 1:47:46Speaker 01

  Oh, yikes.

• 1:47:48Griffin Newman?

  Chock full of women.

• 1:47:51Speaker 01

  You know, that, that, that's not a, it's a mostly gashes planet.

• 1:47:55David Sims?

  Excuse me?

• 1:47:56Griffin Newman?

  Truly, I hate to big dog you on this, but I actually, I read a scientific textbook.

• 1:48:02Speaker 01

  Oh, man, and I never have. There are no women in.

• 1:48:06Griffin Newman?

  Men are from Mars and women are from Venus. And that's a fact. And when I say read the book, I mean, I read the cover.

• 1:48:11Speaker 01

  It was exciting. I only looked at the pictures.

• 1:48:14Griffin Newman?

  The no dame sequence is, is so triumphant as a performance from Tatum, who we've talked about a lot already in this episode. But the moment that I truly like just lose my mind with joy is when they cut out to the wider shot. After this like beautiful, kind of elegant, sweeping, long crane movement. And you see that the floor of the set is separated into blocks.

• 1:48:40David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:48:40Griffin Newman?

  That roll away that they had to move away in order for the crane to move in closer. And now seamlessly as choreography, not from the performers, but from the crew. They have to roll right back into position as the crane is pulling back. So when it goes back to its original angle, the floor is in shape. And I'm like, that's fucking magic of the movies. And that's the shit when you watch a movie from the 1940s where you're like, they had to fucking figure this out.

• 1:49:02David Sims?

  It is amazing what they figured out for some of this stuff. And they're right. They had this heavy ass cameras that can only do so many things. They didn't have steady cams back then.

• 1:49:12Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:49:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:12David Sims?

  You know?

• 1:49:13Speaker 01

  They're athletes and scientists.

• 1:49:15Griffin Newman?

  And you watch this take that feels like perfect, that feels like a fucking miracle where everyone's just nailing everything. And the crane comes down and Christopher Lambert with his fucking dumb director bullhorn goes like, don't put the bar rag on the guy's head. You're too big of a star. You're bigger than that, right? Like gives him a direction that is not like you fucked anything up. It's sort of in the name of his star persona. I think a correct, he says it in a way that offends the bartender actor, right? But I think what he's really saying is that's you kind of punching down.

• 1:49:48David Sims?

  Do you think the Coen brothers talked to Christopher Lambert about how he played Raiden in Mortal Kombat?

• 1:49:52Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely.

• 1:49:54David Sims?

  I hope so.

• 1:49:54Speaker 01

  It's the only thing they talked about.

• 1:49:57David Sims?

  Or do you think when he was in character, she's like, this reminds me of Mortal Kombat?

• 1:50:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:01David Sims?

  Okay.

• 1:50:01Griffin Newman?

  Heather Goldenhurst.

• 1:50:03David Sims?

  Oh, I love her.

• 1:50:03Griffin Newman?

  Eddie's assistant.

• 1:50:04David Sims?

  You know what? You know what show she was on?

• 1:50:06Speaker 01

  I love a mousy assistant.

• 1:50:07Griffin Newman?

  What?

• 1:50:08David Sims?

  Can you guess?

• 1:50:09Griffin Newman?

  Mad Men?

• 1:50:11David Sims?

  No, although was she?

• 1:50:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:13David Sims?

  Because she does have the look, you're right.

• 1:50:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:15David Sims?

  Let's find out if she was on Mad Men.

• 1:50:16Griffin Newman?

  She's such a good fast talker.

• 1:50:18David Sims?

  Um, she never was. She was on the show The Class, which is a show I think about all the time.

• 1:50:23Griffin Newman?

  Interesting.

• 1:50:24David Sims?

  It ran for one season.

• 1:50:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:25David Sims?

  It was a big CBS show.

• 1:50:27Griffin Newman?

  I watched it and I forgot that she was on it.

• 1:50:28David Sims?

  Right, from the creator of Friends and the gimmick was that it was eight 28 year olds who had been in the same third grade class 20 years ago and they somehow reunion.

• 1:50:38Griffin Newman?

  And then they become.

• 1:50:39David Sims?

  Reunione.

• 1:50:41Griffin Newman?

  But then they become a regular friend group.

• 1:50:42David Sims?

  But no, but it was a really.

• 1:50:43Griffin Newman?

  Lizzie Kaplan, Jesse Tyler Ferguson, John Bernthal.

• 1:50:47David Sims?

  This is why I wanted to bring it up. It had an insanely stacked cast of guys who are about to happen.

• 1:50:52Griffin Newman?

  Andrea Anders, Lucy Punch, yeah.

• 1:50:53David Sims?

  Right, a couple of the guys, Andrea Anders had already done Joey and was kind of like, you know, in the sitcom mix. Jason Ritter had, you know, he was in the sitcom mix a little bit. But like Lizzie Kaplan, Jesse Tyler Ferguson, and then insanely John Bernthal, who never did anything like this again, were all in it. But it was such a weird show because they mostly wouldn't interact.

• 1:51:14Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:51:14David Sims?

  Like it was mostly like four separate tracks of stories, like, and they would only occasionally cross over. It was so weird.

• 1:51:21Griffin Newman?

  But it was also, uh, David Crane, creator of Friends.

• 1:51:24David Sims?

  It was the creator of Friends.

• 1:51:25Griffin Newman?

  James Burrows.

• 1:51:25David Sims?

  Philadelphia and it had zero non-white people in the cast and people were like, are you guys crazy?

• 1:51:31Griffin Newman?

  But also.

• 1:51:32David Sims?

  You can't do this anymore.

• 1:51:33Griffin Newman?

  Right, but it had been a winning formula up until that moment.

• 1:51:36David Sims?

  Yes, until, it was right around then when people were starting to ask questions.

• 1:51:39Griffin Newman?

  Push back on it, but the famous story they tell is that they.

• 1:51:43David Sims?

  But anyway, she was really good in it.

• 1:51:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, right before the first episode aired, Crane and Burrows took the whole cast to Las Vegas. Have you guys heard the story before? All expenses paid.

• 1:51:54Speaker 01

  I'm just reading about this now.

• 1:51:55Griffin Newman?

  And they were like, guys, we don't want to stress you out, but you just need to understand, this is the last time you're ever going to be able to go out in public again as normal people, and especially as a group. We saw what happened to the Friends cast.

• 1:52:07David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:52:08Griffin Newman?

  And I want you guys to have a great weekend.

• 1:52:10David Sims?

  Savor this.

• 1:52:10Griffin Newman?

  Savor this.

• 1:52:11David Sims?

  And Bernthal was like, for me, this is actually sort of true.

• 1:52:14Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:52:15David Sims?

  And everyone else is like, huh?

• 1:52:16Griffin Newman?

  And then the show like just collapsed immediately, but the the confidence of this is it, we are holding a hot hand, this is new Friends.

• 1:52:24David Sims?

  It's crazy to think about. Anyway, she's great in this too, as the, right, the assistant to Manic.

• 1:52:28Griffin Newman?

  Who's constantly filling him in.

• 1:52:30Speaker 01

  The thing is, I feel like that story probably happens a whole bunch. We just never hear.

• 1:52:33David Sims?

  It's like the, you know, NBA champion, you know, shirts they printed for the other guys who then gets shipped to, you know, wherever.

• 1:52:40Griffin Newman?

  It's just a particularly infamous one, and because most of that cast has then ended up finding success somewhere else, they all retell that story whenever they do press about like the false starts of careers.

• 1:52:51David Sims?

  Like if James Burrows was directing a show back then, it was kind of like, okay, this must be the next big comedy. Like, that guy always directed.

• 1:52:57Griffin Newman?

  There was a 25 year run where he had not directed a single pilot that didn't go to series and last more than one season. It was insane.

• 1:53:05David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:53:05Griffin Newman?

  Like was just a kingmaker. Yeah.

• 1:53:07David Sims?

  Uh, but anyway, love her.

• 1:53:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:09David Sims?

  Uh, in this and liked her find in the classroom when I remember. Don't really remember.

• 1:53:13Griffin Newman?

  This is a movie where everyone is great and even.

• 1:53:15David Sims?

  Wait, is anyone bad, though?

• 1:53:16Griffin Newman?

  No, no, no, no, no. And there are people in it where you're like, you're gonna hire Dolph Lundgren to like stand at the top of a submarine for like a day and basically be art direction?

• 1:53:26David Sims?

  Kind of nails it.

• 1:53:27Griffin Newman?

  That's the thing.

• 1:53:28Speaker 01

  He is great.

• 1:53:28Griffin Newman?

  It doesn't feel like an abuse of power on the Coens part.

• 1:53:31David Sims?

  Like Clancy Brown showing up for two seconds as Cluedy's co-star. Love to see him.

• 1:53:35Griffin Newman?

  Every one of these people who shows up, you're like, well, but it, could anyone do what they're doing better than them?

• 1:53:41Speaker 01

  I mean, Dolph stands so well on that submarine. He's so imposing. I'm like, that guy's a commie.

• 1:53:46Griffin Newman?

  But it's like, it's, it's presence, it's like history, it's reputational casting. As we said, like, the fucking, like, the future is loaded with.

• 1:53:55David Sims?

  Right, all the.

• 1:53:56Griffin Newman?

  Just incredible that guys where you're like, Melamed, you're giving him two lines of dialogue?

• 1:54:00David Sims?

  Melamed, I feel like, the other thing is like, a lot of them are guys who haven't. Been in Coen movies, but you're like, how have they never been in a Coen?

• 1:54:06Griffin Newman?

  Right, this is the first Kremholtz and then he does Buster Skgregs after.

• 1:54:10David Sims?

  And then it's the, I don't think Fishler had done one and that's another guy who feels.

• 1:54:15Griffin Newman?

  Feels like.

• 1:54:15David Sims?

  Right, like that he had popped up in a Coen before.

• 1:54:18Griffin Newman?

  Karpovski had done Lewin Davis.

• 1:54:19Speaker 01

  I was just about to say, Karpovski, but does he have a line in this?

• 1:54:22David Sims?

  He just takes the pictures, right?

• 1:54:24Speaker 01

  He just takes, he just moves around. He just smirks.

• 1:54:27Griffin Newman?

  But I'm like, he's giving so much, right?

• 1:54:30David Sims?

  Had Picardo?

• 1:54:30Speaker 01

  It's giving so much.

• 1:54:32Griffin Newman?

  Uh, I don't know.

• 1:54:33David Sims?

  I don't think so.

• 1:54:34Griffin Newman?

  No, no. Yeah. You do have to just think about like, True Grit was their biggest hit. That comes only a couple of years after they sweep the Oscars. And then Inside Lewin Davis is basically immediately greeted as a masterpiece, even though it doesn't become a big Oscar movie. It's like, this is maybe their best thing. They were just running so hot where like, anyone would show up for one day for them.

• 1:54:59David Sims?

  For sure.

• 1:55:00Speaker 01

  And we haven't even shouted out the narrator.

• 1:55:02Griffin Newman?

  Michael Gambon.

• 1:55:03David Sims?

  We love to hear him.

• 1:55:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. But this movie has a $22 million budget. Like, think about how much fucking value there is. This is a movie with like, big sets and big costumes and like, an all-star cast and everything. People just want it to play.

• 1:55:18David Sims?

  Do you think about how Inside Lewin Davis wasn't nominated for any Oscars?

• 1:55:21Griffin Newman?

  I think about it constantly.

• 1:55:22David Sims?

  That is crazy. Or did it maybe get like a cinematography?

• 1:55:25Griffin Newman?

  It must have gotten song and cinematography.

• 1:55:28David Sims?

  Sound and cinematography.

• 1:55:30Griffin Newman?

  And no song?

• 1:55:31Speaker 01

  No song?

• 1:55:32David Sims?

  No, because remember they, they submitted, they're like, uh-oh, you know, the please Mr. Kennedy and like.

• 1:55:39Griffin Newman?

  Rather than fair they were.

• 1:55:40David Sims?

  Too silly, right?

• 1:55:41Griffin Newman?

  Okay. Uh, yeah, no, that's some of the dumbest shit of all time. That movie is, I'm excited to re-watch it. We will have done it at this point.

• 1:55:50David Sims?

  It's too hot in New York right now.

• 1:55:53Speaker 01

  So hot.

• 1:55:54David Sims?

  To watch that movie.

• 1:55:54Griffin Newman?

  Thank God we, we can.

• 1:55:55David Sims?

  Like, that movie is so cold.

• 1:55:57Speaker 01

  It's the heat.

• 1:55:58David Sims?

  I would just sort of be like, no, no, it's never felt like this in New York. This is science fiction.

• 1:56:02Griffin Newman?

  It's one of the great Coe movies.

• 1:56:03David Sims?

  It is one of the great Coe movies.

• 1:56:05Speaker 01

  I can't believe I come here and it's so hot.

• 1:56:07David Sims?

  It's so hot.

• 1:56:08Speaker 01

  And you guys won't come to LA.

• 1:56:10Griffin Newman?

  I, I come gladly and with pleasure. I fly to LA trippingly.

• 1:56:16Speaker 01

  With, with pleasure.

• 1:56:18David Sims?

  Ruthfully, ruthfully.

• 1:56:20Griffin Newman?

  Uh, we were just having a text conversation about a thing that David won't go to LA for. It was a hard.

• 1:56:25David Sims?

  I support you guys.

• 1:56:26Griffin Newman?

  We assume you're not doing.

• 1:56:28David Sims?

  But I support it.

• 1:56:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:29Speaker 01

  It's a cross-country train. You could just drive the whole way.

• 1:56:32David Sims?

  Great idea. I would love to do that. I would. It's not. I don't like flying.

• 1:56:36Speaker 01

  I know. That's why I'm saying.

• 1:56:37David Sims?

  And it's, of course, flying getting a bit of a bad rap right now, I will say.

• 1:56:41Griffin Newman?

  That's a bad rap.

• 1:56:43David Sims?

  Couple, couple.

• 1:56:43Speaker 01

  Why? What happened?

• 1:56:44David Sims?

  A couple of red flags in the old news for airplanes. But no, I have. It's not children, not the flying guys.

• 1:56:50Speaker 03

  Children. Children.

• 1:56:52Griffin Newman?

  You say this, but the arguments were not very different pre-children.

• 1:56:57David Sims?

  I took planes pre-children. I did. I did. I took planes.

• 1:57:02Griffin Newman?

  You did. Yes. I did cross-country train trip to California and was wonderful.

• 1:57:06David Sims?

  You enjoyed it, didn't you?

• 1:57:07Griffin Newman?

  I had a grand old time.

• 1:57:08David Sims?

  Were there any hiccups? And I'm not talking about the star of hit, live-action remake, How to Train Your Dragon.

• 1:57:14Griffin Newman?

  I didn't realize there wasn't going to be Wi-Fi on the train because you go to areas of the country where there is nothing. And they were like, you will not have cellphone signal, let alone Wi-Fi on the train. And so I should have downloaded a bunch of stuff to my iPad before.

• 1:57:27David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:57:28Griffin Newman?

  I got on. That was the mistake I made.

• 1:57:29Speaker 01

  What did you do instead?

• 1:57:31Griffin Newman?

  Did some reading.

• 1:57:32Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:57:33Griffin Newman?

  Did some thinking.

• 1:57:34Speaker 03

  Staring out the window.

• 1:57:35Griffin Newman?

  Lot of time in the, whatever they call it, the, not the viewer car or whatever, but they had the one car.

• 1:57:40Speaker 01

  And we know what it's called.

• 1:57:42Griffin Newman?

  That's like all big windows. And you drive through, drive through. The train runs through these areas where you're like, there is no other sign of human life.

• 1:57:51Speaker 01

  Untouched beauty.

• 1:57:52Griffin Newman?

  Anywhere. You're like, you only get to see this land if you're on this train.

• 1:57:56Speaker 01

  Is that the panoramic car or something?

• 1:57:58Griffin Newman?

  I think that's right.

• 1:57:59Speaker 01

  Hmm. You know, if we had the internet, we could look it up.

• 1:58:01Griffin Newman?

  We could. And we don't. We are recording this episode on a cross-country train.

• 1:58:06Speaker 01

  In a bunker, because it is hot outside.

• 1:58:10David Sims?

  It is a bit of a bunker that we're in right now. Hail Caesar.

• 1:58:13Griffin Newman?

  What are things we should call out?

• 1:58:14Speaker 03

  Well, I'm sorry. Actually, that's time for a union break. I'm gonna call it, so.

• 1:58:19David Sims?

  Lunch.

• 1:58:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Box lunch or hot lunch?

• 1:58:22Speaker 03

  Hot lunch.

• 1:58:26Speaker 06

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• 1:59:00Griffin Newman?

  The kind of shit as like students of filmmaking that you know they just love digging into the details of like the lunch strata.

• 1:59:09Speaker 01

  The lunch strata.

• 1:59:09Griffin Newman?

  Were used, David. Crunching ice directly on mic, almost leaning in to make sure we capture it in full quality.

• 1:59:16Speaker 01

  Again, again.

• 1:59:17Griffin Newman?

  But yes, that bit of like you've never seen the Jesus actor who they're just like, we found a guy who has the right look from behind and doesn't have to deliver dialogue.

• 1:59:24Speaker 01

  Feet wise.

• 1:59:25Griffin Newman?

  But the movie also never shows us the guy head on. And you just hear this meek voice of a guy who just kind of works as Jesus from most angles. And that fucking just cut in.

• 1:59:36Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, for a film that's about faith and art and faith in oneself's work and passion and purpose, like for Jesus to not be a principal is very funny.

• 1:59:47Griffin Newman?

  That's the other thing I think this movie captures really well is like the thing that kind of goes away with the death of the studio system is this sort of feeling of like, this is just a job. People clock in and clock out, right? Because you have like a contract and you know when one production ends, you're going to be put on the next one.

• 2:00:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:00:04Griffin Newman?

  This backlot is your office, right? You're not like negotiating to be like, oh God, I hope I can get this grip job in Bulgaria. I haven't booked anything in 18 months. And the sort of like, kind of rote, like banal routines of these things.

• 2:00:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:20Griffin Newman?

  And this guy just going up to the fucking guy who's literally like mounted on a cross and being like, are you principal or extra? And the guy's just like, I actually don't even know. And it's just a matter of which lunch do I give you?

• 2:00:34Speaker 01

  Right, exactly. I don't know, it's workaday.

• 2:00:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:37Speaker 01

  It's like, it's, yeah.

• 2:00:38David Sims?

  But it's always loving, or at least affectionate.

• 2:00:41Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:00:42David Sims?

  And...

• 2:00:44David Sims?

  There's a world where that's almost kind of glib where you're like, come on, guys. Like, what are we glossing over? Like, but it never feels like they're glossing anything over. They're giving you the kind of nasty side.

• 2:00:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 2:00:55Speaker 01

  It's nasty.

• 2:00:56David Sims?

  Without it being Hector-ing or, you know.

• 2:00:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's nasty and nostalgic at the same time.

• 2:01:00David Sims?

  Just like me.

• 2:01:00Griffin Newman?

  Can I circle back to a couple? Yeah, big time. Can I circle back to a couple more Hobie things?

• 2:01:07David Sims?

  Hobie?

• 2:01:08Griffin Newman?

  Yes. One, I love that Mannix trusts him and tells him what's going on.

• 2:01:13David Sims?

  Hope, yes, that like, it's like, uh.

• 2:01:15Griffin Newman?

  He's there with the suitcase.

• 2:01:17David Sims?

  And Hobie goes like, this is bad, real bad, or whatever.

• 2:01:19Griffin Newman?

  Bad for movie stars everywhere.

• 2:01:21David Sims?

  Hope, he's kind of a Tom Cruise. Like, he believes in protecting movies, you know what I mean?

• 2:01:26Griffin Newman?

  And his speech about, like, you should look at the X-tries, which is like, is this a sort of like, classist, I'm a star, look at the lowest guys on the rung, but then he explains that he's just like, you know, I, I, I knew, I know the gaffers, you know, like.

• 2:01:40Speaker 01

  I know the script girls.

• 2:01:41Griffin Newman?

  Right, you're like, he is someone who like, has such respect and love for everyone who works on these movies and understands that's like, we're all part of the same thing. I don't have ego, but just simply, the extras aren't here every day, so you just don't know. And some of them I like quite a bit, you know, but some of them, you don't know. But yeah, Hobie like, clocks the briefcase thing, and you see this moment where Brolin does the math, and it's like, is he just so tired that like, this was what he had allotted to be his three minutes of closing his eyes and decompressing, and Hobie comes in, and he's just like, fuck it, I'm gonna tell you? Or does he correctly read that like, Hobie's smarter than people think?

• 2:02:19David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:02:19Griffin Newman?

  He's like, considerate, he's thoughtful, he's observant, he might actually have good intel, which is rewarded in the fact that Hobie's the one who puts it fucking together.

• 2:02:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:28Griffin Newman?

  And rescues Baird.

• 2:02:29Speaker 01

  Well, Eddie reads Hobie so well also because Hobie is like, whatever you need, I can get you. Yeah, like, and, but it's not like, but he's not saying it in this like, cloying way, where like, he, Hobie never comes off as someone who wants to climb the ladder.

• 2:02:43Griffin Newman?

  No, they talk, they talk about that he was.

• 2:02:45Speaker 01

  He genuinely wants to help.

• 2:02:46Griffin Newman?

  The other thing I want to bring up, Veronica Sario.

• 2:02:49Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:02:49Griffin Newman?

  UCB alum is so phenomenal in this.

• 2:02:52David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:02:53Griffin Newman?

  Playing like a Carmen Miranda type.

• 2:02:54David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:02:55Griffin Newman?

  Who the studio was trying to, now that they're trying to make Hobie an A-list star, they're trying to set him up with one of their other stars to get more press, to present him as a bit of a Lothario. And it's such a sweet little romance in this movie that they go on this arranged date, and you can tell they actually.

• 2:03:09David Sims?

  They're vibing.

• 2:03:09Griffin Newman?

  Connect.

• 2:03:10David Sims?

  She's so cute.

• 2:03:11Griffin Newman?

  They're catching. A manufactured thing that is becoming real and them having the two fucking Swit and Stop by the table and they have the lines they've been coached to say, and yet they're just sort of like, there's an actual energy here that isn't fake.

• 2:03:27Speaker 01

  Friendly.

• 2:03:28Griffin Newman?

  It's so good. She is so good.

• 2:03:30Speaker 01

  It's endearing. She's great.

• 2:03:32Griffin Newman?

  Her chemistry is so good. I love the brass tacks of them explaining their fucking routines. How do you bounce the fruit on the head? How do you do the lasso shit? You know, like, just like, this is the grunt work that goes into then making something look really effortless.

• 2:03:44Speaker 01

  And lassoing her finger is such an innocent move that then they have to like, that when they are confronted by the two Tildas, it's like suddenly they have to be on, but then they're already on.

• 2:03:53Griffin Newman?

  Italian origami. I think he calls it Italian origami.

• 2:03:57Speaker 01

  Italian origami.

• 2:03:58Griffin Newman?

  Spaghetti.

• 2:03:59Speaker 01

  They're so good. I believe them more than I believe Shawn Mendes and Camila Cabello.

• 2:04:05Griffin Newman?

  I believe them more than I believe.

• 2:04:08David Sims?

  Who is Shawn Mendes?

• 2:04:09Griffin Newman?

  This is a great question. I've been too afraid to ask.

• 2:04:13Speaker 01

  I don't, you know, and he never got a chair, so I also don't know. A Canadian?

• 2:04:18David Sims?

  Is Camila Cabello the one who was Cinderella?

• 2:04:21Speaker 01

  Ooh, yeah.

• 2:04:22David Sims?

  In the, in most Cinderella. That is.

• 2:04:25Speaker 01

  She comes in a little package.

• 2:04:26David Sims?

  That was a tough, that was a tough watch.

• 2:04:28Griffin Newman?

  I feel like.

• 2:04:29David Sims?

  It was a tough one.

• 2:04:30Griffin Newman?

  That might be your least favorite movie of all time. I feel like you sometimes identify it and part of it was also like deep lockdown.

• 2:04:35David Sims?

  Yeah, it wasn't in a great time.

• 2:04:37Griffin Newman?

  Amazon streaming bullshit, but that is like maybe the closest I've ever seen to like, is David gonna be okay?

• 2:04:42David Sims?

  I liked Kate Hand, like I liked Blockers and it was one of those things where like, is this like?

• 2:04:47Griffin Newman?

  You love James Corden in supporting roles.

• 2:04:49David Sims?

  I like James Acaster, who's also in, and Ramesh rang an eighth.

• 2:04:52Griffin Newman?

  It's, how could people?

• 2:04:53Speaker 01

  Not enough.

• 2:04:54David Sims?

  Uh, but, uh, it felt like the apotheosis of a sort of like, we can't just be like, guys, did you know Cinderella is kind of problematic? I mean, there has to be more than this.

• 2:05:05Griffin Newman?

  You're right.

• 2:05:05David Sims?

  We cannot do this.

• 2:05:07Griffin Newman?

  Well, this is my.

• 2:05:08David Sims?

  We must cease.

• 2:05:08Griffin Newman?

  The increasing problem with the.

• 2:05:09David Sims?

  Recently and I, I want to say that I love and respect our friend Rachel Zegler and cannot wait for her to come back on the show.

• 2:05:16Griffin Newman?

  Same. Yes, possibly will have happened recently if not cut the statement out, Ben.

• 2:05:21David Sims?

  But nonetheless, but I watched that Snow White movie.

• 2:05:24Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:05:24David Sims?

  And it is stinky poo poo.

• 2:05:25Griffin Newman?

  It's stinky poo poo. Now Rachel-

• 2:05:27David Sims?

  It's no good.

• 2:05:27Griffin Newman?

  I will say this.

• 2:05:28David Sims?

  She acquits herself just about as well as you could in that kind of a situation.

• 2:05:32Griffin Newman?

  And Rachel is a fucking movie star in the way that this movie is about, where you're just like, anytime she is doing something on screen is magical and she is so multi-skilled and smart about what she's doing, that anytime it is a close-up of her face, you're like, this is a real movie. And then it cuts out to a wide shot of the eight worst-looking characters I have ever seen in my life.

• 2:05:51Speaker 01

  I have never been more horrified.

• 2:05:52Griffin Newman?

  Every time these CGI dwarves were on screen, I wanted to eat glass and then spit it into my eyes.

• 2:05:58Speaker 01

  Well, let me tell you, Rachel, Rachel, a star, so talented.

• 2:06:02David Sims?

  You're trying to spit it in her-

• 2:06:03Speaker 01

  Not forcing anybody to spit glass.

• 2:06:05Griffin Newman?

  It's genuinely good in the movie.

• 2:06:05Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:06:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:06Speaker 01

  But the dwarves showed up at my screening, the child behind me screamed.

• 2:06:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:11Speaker 01

  They came out, they're like, they're shadowy, and then they walk out and they're like, hi-ho, hi-ho, whatever, or whatever.

• 2:06:17David Sims?

  No, it's hi-ho with a bunch of new stuff.

• 2:06:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the kid behind me goes, ah!

• 2:06:22Griffin Newman?

  I turned to my girlfriend and I said, like 30 seconds into them being introduced, I said, "I am physically suffering from having to look at them on screen, and I think this is gonna be a big issue for the rest of the movie." Anytime they were on screen, I was like shaking.

• 2:06:37Speaker 01

  You would think that they're a small issue, Greg.

• 2:06:40Griffin Newman?

  They should be a little issue. And in fact, but is another example of what you're saying of like, "Okay, we wanna make a big expensive live-action Snow White." Obviously, Snow White is problematic now, so we have to address all the controversies head-on. And I'm like, "Or maybe, you should take the lesson here, which is, don't make modern Snow White. Don't make modern Cinderella."

• 2:07:00Speaker 01

  Don't do it.

• 2:07:01Griffin Newman?

  If you're so worried about these movies, don't do them.

• 2:07:04David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:07:04Speaker 01

  It's also the new songs never mesh well. I never watched the Cinderella. I mean, I'm always concerned about David, but yes, that period of time was no good.

• 2:07:11Griffin Newman?

  Real.

• 2:07:11Speaker 01

  No bueno.

• 2:07:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:12David Sims?

  Concerned about me?

• 2:07:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course.

• 2:07:14David Sims?

  We're all worried about you.

• 2:07:15Speaker 01

  We're all worried about you all the time.

• 2:07:17David Sims?

  Telling me.

• 2:07:18Griffin Newman?

  It's, Snow White already only had like three songs to begin with in the original movie, and then this movie-

• 2:07:24Speaker 01

  One of them involves a lot of whistling.

• 2:07:26Griffin Newman?

  Right. This movie cuts out one of the three songs because I'm woke.

• 2:07:29David Sims?

  Cause it's unwoke.

• 2:07:30Griffin Newman?

  And you're like, so we're down to two and then eight dogshit new songs?

• 2:07:35David Sims?

  And you're just like, what's this song about? You're like, I don't know.

• 2:07:38Griffin Newman?

  They also, they-

• 2:07:42Griffin Newman?

  They don't want the dwarves to be dwarves, right? Because they think that's condescending. So they're like, it is them and they look like the cartoon designs. And they have the same names, but they're actually some kind of weird magical creature. So they do hi-ho and in the middle of hi-ho, they add three verses being like, "We are immortal, we come for sacred realm." They do, I'm not shitting you. They do hi-ho and they're doing like fucking mining as if it was like-

• 2:08:08David Sims?

  Yeah, they're kind of like Lord of the Rings dwarfs.

• 2:08:10Griffin Newman?

  And then they just start explaining like, "We're our own thing."

• 2:08:13David Sims?

  "We can detect jewels with a special sense."

• 2:08:17Speaker 01

  "That's a jewels glow."

• 2:08:18Griffin Newman?

  "We're not exaggerating." "It's absurd." And I'm like ripping out my circle thing.

• 2:08:25Speaker 01

  "Children are crying, children are screaming."

• 2:08:27Griffin Newman?

  Rachel Seckler's very good in that film.

• 2:08:29David Sims?

  She is, she really does acquit herself. Someone else in the film I thought was, uh, no bueno, though. There was another actress.

• 2:08:35Speaker 01

  Oh, I believe she sings quite a bit in it. And it sounds like this.

• 2:08:39David Sims?

  Something was happening in those scenes. Yeah, I'm not sure if I call it a game.

• 2:08:41Griffin Newman?

  In her defense, there was such a warm reception to her singing the song Imagine on Instagram in the year 2020, that who wouldn't then follow that lead and say, "I gotta quadruple down on this."

• 2:08:53Speaker 01

  I mean, I thought that video was so powerful and meaningful and it really turned my pandemic experience around. And right now, I really would love to lead us in a rendition of Imagine.

• 2:09:04Griffin Newman?

  Okay, and guys, just to pay proper tribute to the original video, let's make sure that none of us are in the same picture. That when we hand off, we're moving to another.

• 2:09:13Speaker 01

  I vote not going outside where it's hot.

• 2:09:15David Sims?

  And if you wanna like jam some sort of sand into your iPhone microphone, you know, really make it hard for it to pick up the noise.

• 2:09:21Speaker 01

  If you wanna hold it up to your nostrils.

• 2:09:23Griffin Newman?

  Some people are doing it amidst whipping winds. Some people have dogs barking in the background.

• 2:09:29Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm also a part of the cast of the Wonder Woman 1984, so.

• 2:09:32Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:09:32David Sims?

  They should make Wonder Woman 1985. What if they did that? They were like, "Now we're slowing it down." Like, not present.

• 2:09:38Speaker 01

  Except it's not about 1985, it's about the bowling for soup song.

• 2:09:42Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:09:43David Sims?

  Please elaborate.

• 2:09:44Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:09:44David Sims?

  Okay.

• 2:09:46Griffin Newman?

  Um, other hoppy stuff I wanna say.

• 2:09:48David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:09:49Griffin Newman?

  Uh, in that, in that date scene, she goes to, how did you end up in this position? And he says this kinda story, that's this thing that used to happen, it doesn't really happen anymore. But Chang Tatum is sort of one of these guys where he's like, I was a rodeo guy proper. Then I got side work as a wrangler. Then at some point, they just go like, can we throw you a line? Then they realized I could speak. I think he became a stunt person. Then they threw him a line, like this, like, slow evolution. And then they like, they heard I could sing and then they decided I got to be the guy. You know, that, the line of, and then I get to be the guy.

• 2:10:22David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:10:22Griffin Newman?

  Um, is just, it's a, I don't know.

• 2:10:25Speaker 01

  Channing is such a good comp. I haven't thought about it that way. He's a hobby.

• 2:10:28Griffin Newman?

  It's why I think his casting is so good.

• 2:10:30David Sims?

  Alden himself, I suppose, a little bit, this sort of, I mean, he's a little bit more of the like, right? We found this gem on a, you know, a mitzvah table.

• 2:10:37Griffin Newman?

  That's the difference. Like, where do we place him? Whereas Channing, like, we all got to see him build.

• 2:10:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, we can.

• 2:10:43David Sims?

  At this point, Weapons has come out and I hope he's really good.

• 2:10:46Griffin Newman?

  Very, very excited to see him in it.

• 2:10:48David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:48Griffin Newman?

  Uh.

• 2:10:49David Sims?

  And of course, he's in Ironheart.

• 2:10:51Griffin Newman?

  Of course.

• 2:10:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:53Griffin Newman?

  The world's most.

• 2:10:53David Sims?

  Ironheart.

• 2:10:54Griffin Newman?

  On time series.

• 2:10:56David Sims?

  The most.

• 2:10:56Griffin Newman?

  Being released exactly when it was originally planned to be released.

• 2:10:59David Sims?

  You know who he's playing in it, right?

• 2:11:01Griffin Newman?

  He's, no, who's he playing?

• 2:11:02David Sims?

  He's playing Ezekiel Stain. He's playing Jeff Bridges' son.

• 2:11:05Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 2:11:06Griffin Newman?

  And Anthony Ramos is the Red Hood.

• 2:11:08David Sims?

  Oh, boy.

• 2:11:09Griffin Newman?

  They're pulling like.

• 2:11:10David Sims?

  Oh, boy.

• 2:11:11Griffin Newman?

  Eightieth tier characters.

• 2:11:12David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:11:13Griffin Newman?

  And assigning like wildly overkill all five actors to play them.

• 2:11:16David Sims?

  Well, that is the Marvel TV way.

• 2:11:18Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:11:18David Sims?

  But like, I occasionally will, I'll send any tweet I see about Ironheart to my brother because we're like obsessed with Ironheart.

• 2:11:23Griffin Newman?

  Not the Red Hood, the Hood, the Red Hood's a fucking DC character.

• 2:11:26David Sims?

  You're right.

• 2:11:26Griffin Newman?

  Fucking idiot.

• 2:11:27David Sims?

  A mendus.

• 2:11:27Speaker 01

  Get it, Ray.

• 2:11:28David Sims?

  And, uh, uh, like, there was some tweet that was like, Ironheart will not use magic until later in the series. And I was like, whoa, whoa, she's using magic? Is that?

• 2:11:37Speaker 01

  Like the dwarves.

• 2:11:38David Sims?

  Like, well, when, when did that get, I thought she had a fucking suit.

• 2:11:41Griffin Newman?

  By the time this episode comes out, it will have been a long, subtle thing, but isn't the rumor that Sacha Baron Cohen plays Mephisto in the series?

• 2:11:48David Sims?

  Are you kidding me?

• 2:11:49Griffin Newman?

  I said, I believe the show gets into the Satanic arts, which is then you realize that he was pulling the strings on the hood? I think that's where this is going.

• 2:11:57David Sims?

  Oh, my God.

• 2:11:58Griffin Newman?

  Perhaps that was five versions ago.

• 2:12:00David Sims?

  Right. No, I think you're, certainly that's rumored.

• 2:12:03Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:12:04David Sims?

  Anyway.

• 2:12:05Griffin Newman?

  Haven't watched.

• 2:12:06David Sims?

  Hail Caesar, anything else you want to say about beautiful, uh, Hobie Doyle?

• 2:12:09Griffin Newman?

  We must just call out Would That It Were So Simple, which is, for my money, one of the funniest scenes in the history of movies. I know that I like to make hyperbolic statements as such, but this thing hits so fucking hard every single time.

• 2:12:22David Sims?

  It's kind of like Oh Brother thing of like, uh, doing the, you know, uh, damn, we're in a tight spot four times of like, would it? It's like, it takes, it goes on for so long that you're like, this can't be funny anymore. And then of course it gets funny again.

• 2:12:35Griffin Newman?

  But also, it's such a slow burn of just like him arriving on set, Lorenz immediately clocking like, this isn't my kind of guy, right? I love the character detail. It's the kind of thing that Fines plays so well, but like, he is such a fucking pretentious snob that he's actually doing a bad job as a director in the process. Cause it's like, dude, stop using the fucking forty dollar words.

• 2:13:00David Sims?

  Right, he's kind of bullying you.

• 2:13:01Griffin Newman?

  It's clearly not getting through to him and it's not helping your movie.

• 2:13:04David Sims?

  I like the little jokes that get built in, such as when he's like, switches from Mr. Lorenz to Lawrence. And Hobie's like, wait a second, I thought, and he's like, no, we can use our Christian names, you know, like, you know, things like that.

• 2:13:15Griffin Newman?

  Have you seen this before, Ben? I love the sub jokes.

• 2:13:17Speaker 03

  Um, no, I had never seen it.

• 2:13:19Griffin Newman?

  I want your overall hands, but this scene in particular.

• 2:13:22Speaker 03

  It's the physical comedy of it is something that I've really dug in on. I think he just plays the physicality and just like conveying how out of depth he is.

• 2:13:35Griffin Newman?

  And just by a little bit, right? Like, but it's just subtly off enough, even in like the steps and the handling of the door and everything.

• 2:13:42Speaker 03

  Pull out and all you can hear is his shoes squeaking, echoing in the room.

• 2:13:48Griffin Newman?

  Here comes Hobie.

• 2:13:49David Sims?

  Who, who's playing the female?

• 2:13:51Griffin Newman?

  It's Emily Beecham.

• 2:13:52David Sims?

  Right, right. Very funny.

• 2:13:54Griffin Newman?

  They did a really good, and you have Agnes Dean in here as well and Jack Houston, like some of the fake movie stars they cast that you only get to see in snippets are correctly identified. These people have old fashioned faces.

• 2:14:06David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:06Griffin Newman?

  These are like old school movie beauties with like old school kind of like, they hold themselves in a certain way.

• 2:14:14Speaker 01

  The most of their two lines.

• 2:14:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:16Speaker 01

  Whatever it is. I, I, I adore that she kind of like, what does she say? She says, um, Allegra can't make it or something. I can't remember the exact line.

• 2:14:24Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:14:24Speaker 01

  But the, but the more frustrated she gets with Hobie, like you can see it little by little. And Hobie's clocking it.

• 2:14:31Griffin Newman?

  Where she has to react to him and you see, I think they do a close up on her as he delivers his first line. And you see it in her eyes of like, this whole movie is going down the drain and she can't totally blow it because she's got to stay in the scene. But she looks like they pulled her out of a time machine.

• 2:14:47Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. Mm hmm. They also costumed her as such, right? Like the costume. We haven't talked about the costuming in this. It's also, it's so perfect.

• 2:14:56Speaker 01

  We are in nineteen fifty one.

• 2:14:58Speaker 03

  God, even the hair. They really capture that era.

• 2:15:02Griffin Newman?

  Beauty lighting in a way we don't get anymore.

• 2:15:04Speaker 01

  We haven't shouted out, good luck bar, rest in peace, good luck bar in Los Feliz.

• 2:15:08Griffin Newman?

  Oh, tell us about that.

• 2:15:10David Sims?

  I don't know what you're talking about. This is some LA nonsense.

• 2:15:12Speaker 01

  This is not LA nonsense.

• 2:15:17Speaker 01

  It's like the, it's the Chinese restaurant. Old fashioned Chinese restaurant, great bar, went on a date there once, great vibes.

• 2:15:28Speaker 03

  I've been to that restaurant as well. It's awesome.

• 2:15:30Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 2:15:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:32Speaker 01

  But I feel like the, the locations they chose, not only is like, I don't know, like, like, like you could see it as an equivalent of like the Formosa Cafe, right? Where it's kind of like people went there all the time back in the golden age of Hollywood. And it's like, the places they went were also just as much like facades as the studio. You know, like it's, and so this is their entire world and it is like them attempting to leave the studio, but at the same time they're still in this like set.

• 2:15:57Griffin Newman?

  Surely very well.

• 2:15:58David Sims?

  Formosa is where LA Confidential, where, um.

• 2:16:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:16:02David Sims?

  Where he's like, you know, you look like, don't just because you're a whore, look, cut to look like blah. Just like, no, it is her.

• 2:16:08Speaker 01

  I love that all of these locations are like scattered around LA, right? Like it's not, not, not just this. I mean, like Formosa's near where I live. Los Feliz had Good Luck Bar.

• 2:16:19David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:16:19Speaker 01

  There's like in Koreatown, there's a bar called The Prince, which was used in Chinatown. It was also the bar in New Girl.

• 2:16:27David Sims?

  I know The Prince because, um, I think our friend Allison Herman had her, one of her wedding events there.

• 2:16:33Griffin Newman?

  Oh, Pee Wee's sister?

• 2:16:34David Sims?

  Yes, exactly. Have you ever thought that, like, Los Angeles, another term for it could be like the City of Angels?

• 2:16:40Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 2:16:41David Sims?

  Because it's like Los Angeles.

• 2:16:43Speaker 01

  You know?

• 2:16:44Griffin Newman?

  Do you remember that time that I won the Oscar for Best Actress? And it hit me in that moment, it's true what they say about this city.

• 2:16:53Griffin Newman?

  It's full of angels.

• 2:16:54David Sims?

  There you go.

• 2:16:54Speaker 03

  I'm sorry, guys, I just gotta say, can we stick to the script, please? That really was just like too much.

• 2:17:00Griffin Newman?

  Can you give me any direction, anything you want differently this time?

• 2:17:03Speaker 03

  Try doing what you're doing, but better.

• 2:17:06Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:17:07Speaker 01

  It is true what they say about this city.

• 2:17:12David Sims?

  Jeff Young doesn't melt steel beams. She did say that, she did say that. We never went to the moon.

• 2:17:20David Sims?

  Fake. Who's still in the Stanley Kubrick? Too lazy to go to the old moon.

• 2:17:25Speaker 01

  Fly me to the moon.

• 2:17:26David Sims?

  You know what my favorite LA bar is, especially? It's a little place called Chicken on a Stick. Little jazz bar.

• 2:17:33Speaker 01

  Could've just called it Sticken.

• 2:17:34Griffin Newman?

  That's where jazz was created.

• 2:17:36David Sims?

  That's where jazz was created by this really shiny white guy.

• 2:17:39Griffin Newman?

  The, like, Copacabana-style club.

• 2:17:40Speaker 01

  How shiny.

• 2:17:41David Sims?

  Very shiny.

• 2:17:42Griffin Newman?

  The Copacabana-style club, where, uh, Hobie and Veronica Serra's character, whom for a game.

• 2:17:47David Sims?

  Carlotta.

• 2:17:48Griffin Newman?

  Carlotta go on the arranged date, right? There is that feeling of like, oh, this is living the big Hollywood life. Which, A, things were so much cooler when fucking movie stars weren't going to the Viper Club or wherever the fuck they're going now.

• 2:18:00Speaker 01

  The Viper Room.

• 2:18:01Griffin Newman?

  Okay. And it was like, man.

• 2:18:04Speaker 01

  I don't think they go there anymore.

• 2:18:06Griffin Newman?

  Hard days, hard day of work, you gotta go out and party. You sit at a fucking white tablecloth place where some big band plays. This most brightly lit room in the world and everyone has to dress nice. And then just point at each other, but like, yes, Channing Tatum's also there with a suitcase. Like, the two gossip comics are there. Like, this is like their nightlife, and yet, this is all part of the machinery. This is basically a nighttime version of the studio commissary.

• 2:18:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it is, it's so controlled, but it's supposed to not feel controlled.

• 2:18:35David Sims?

  Can I shout out another guy in this movie? One of the actors in the, this, the Roman movie.

• 2:18:42Speaker 01

  Caesar.

• 2:18:42David Sims?

  Systemus, yes.

• 2:18:45David Sims?

  Is played by a guy called Clement von Frankenstein.

• 2:18:47Griffin Newman?

  Quite a good name.

• 2:18:47David Sims?

  Whoa.

• 2:18:48Speaker 01

  Ooh, say it again.

• 2:18:49David Sims?

  Clement von Frankenstein.

• 2:18:51Speaker 01

  Faster.

• 2:18:52David Sims?

  Clement von Frankenstein. Lower. Clement Von Frankenstein.

• 2:18:59Griffin Newman?

  Uh, yeah. Isn't that a cool name?

• 2:19:02David Sims?

  He's a member of the Frankenstein family.

• 2:19:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:04Speaker 03

  I would go by Frankenstein.

• 2:19:06Speaker 01

  Oh, she died.

• 2:19:07David Sims?

  What if my name was like David Dracula? And I'm like, oh, it's Dracula, actually.

• 2:19:12Speaker 03

  That's what I'm saying.

• 2:19:13David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:19:13Speaker 03

  Just go with it, man.

• 2:19:14Speaker 01

  He died in 2019.

• 2:19:16Griffin Newman?

  He did.

• 2:19:17Speaker 01

  And his rest, he's, he's, uh, he's interred in the Hollywood Forever Cemetery. Also in LA.

• 2:19:22Griffin Newman?

  Did we know that Heather Goldenhurst is married to Brian F. O'Byrne?

• 2:19:25David Sims?

  No, that's wonderful.

• 2:19:26Griffin Newman?

  That's a cool fucking couple.

• 2:19:27David Sims?

  Couple, uh, right. Uh, character actor legends there.

• 2:19:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:30David Sims?

  I mean, Brian O'Byrne, great theater actor.

• 2:19:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Um, I love this movie.

• 2:19:34Speaker 01

  He has a little accent over the I. Everyone knows this.

• 2:19:36Griffin Newman?

  Brian F. O'Byrne.

• 2:19:40Speaker 01

  Anyway, everyone has great names.

• 2:19:42Griffin Newman?

  This is just a movie I find, uh, so relaxing for how much it is like a movie that really spins my brain and gets me thinking off about a bunch of different things.

• 2:19:50David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:19:50Speaker 01

  Your brain is thinking off?

• 2:19:52Griffin Newman?

  Um, my brain is thinking off, but the aesthetic pleasures of this movie, the like tuning of every single performance and that it does ultimately like reassert why I am so obsessed and build my life around these stupid things that are so hard to make and involve like so much pain and suffering and also involve like the worst people in the world ruining other people's lives. Um, it, it just makes me feel very romantic.

• 2:20:18Speaker 03

  I love the name The Future. It's so dumb. It's so extremely dumb.

• 2:20:25Speaker 01

  We are the future. I like that their ransom note is also just like somebody, you know, got on a typewriter, wrote four lines. Cute, cute little note. None of this cutting things out of magazines.

• 2:20:38Griffin Newman?

  Also that they're literally, their plan is to hand a big briefcase of money to a submarine captain so that he like remembers them fondly.

• 2:20:45David Sims?

  Take it to the Soviet Union and be like, here's a, you know, demonstrably small amount of money, really.

• 2:20:50Speaker 01

  Compliments of the future.

• 2:20:52Griffin Newman?

  Right. It doesn't feel like they want to go to Russia. I think they're more like, in case they take over, they'll like look kindly upon us or whatever.

• 2:20:58Speaker 01

  I'm amused. Okay, that sequence does feel like, like it's, everything about it is hilarious to me. It's also like, like they all, they all have the same. Raincoats and little hats.

• 2:21:08Griffin Newman?

  It feels like a fantasy sequence.

• 2:21:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:21:10Griffin Newman?

  It also, it like, looks like tank photography in this very traditional way, even though it is ostensibly a quote-unquote "real-world" sequence. It is as coded in the language of the genres of films that you're seeing in the productions.

• 2:21:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:21:23Griffin Newman?

  And even the look of the submarine, having this kind of model, and then you're like, "Now we're just on a big balsa wood."

• 2:21:29Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:21:30Griffin Newman?

  That's clearly only the top layer.

• 2:21:32Speaker 01

  That's the one scene, I feel like, doesn't have that dichotomy that the rest of the film has. That's kind of like, "It's fake, but it's real at the same time. We pull away, we see the set."

• 2:21:40Griffin Newman?

  It's a classic Coen deflation, right? Of like, "This is the big meeting." And then like, Channing does his like, perfect like-

• 2:21:48Speaker 01

  Hair toss.

• 2:21:48Griffin Newman?

  Dancer jump.

• 2:21:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:21:50Griffin Newman?

  But his, his foofy little dog

• 2:21:54Griffin Newman?

  jumps off and he has to catch him, which then causes him to drop the briefcase and it was all for nothing.

• 2:21:59Speaker 01

  God.

• 2:21:59Griffin Newman?

  Um-

• 2:22:00Speaker 01

  A hundred K.

• 2:22:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I think we're gonna play the box office game, unless there's anything else. I just called one tiny thing I like. Please. Jonah Hill tells a story about the weekend that Superbad came out, and he went out to a bar with his friends, and they were like, "You're a fucking movie star overnight. This is crazy. You gotta have like, the best weekend of your life." Right. You've just like, immediately made it. And they go to this bar and Scarlett Johansson's there, and they were like, "You should go talk to Scarlett Johansson." And he was like, "A guy like me can't talk to Scarlett Johansson." And they were like, "My guy, you just became a movie star." Right, you're number one at the bar. Your thing's a hit. Sure. You can go talk to her. And he went over and talked to her, and she clearly had no idea who he was. And he talks about it as like, the perfect, immediate deflation at the moment he was riding high. There's something kind of nice about this movie ending with them getting married.

• 2:22:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:22:46Griffin Newman?

  Offscreen.

• 2:22:47Speaker 01

  It is beautiful. I like that she pruned his ego, and then, um, you know, offscreen, inflates his character.

• 2:22:54Griffin Newman?

  It also feels like, part of what attracts her to him is that he is some schmo, where she's like, "This guy isn't gonna get caught up in some crazy fucking ego."

• 2:23:03Speaker 01

  Totally. Well, she likes, again, that he's reliable. And he's, well, I- I don't know, can I say one more thing?

• 2:23:09Griffin Newman?

  You can say anything.

• 2:23:11Speaker 01

  Listen, you're not tired of me yet. I mean, here's, it's, it's like,

• 2:23:14Griffin Newman?

  Never.

• 2:23:15Speaker 01

  I, I feel like rewatching this, for me, I was kind of like, yeah, this movie is about, I mean, it's about a million things, but it is also squarely about whether, you know, to have passion for the job that you do.

• 2:23:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:28Speaker 01

  And is it, like, how much do you sacrifice in order to feel fulfilled to an extent at the, at what you do day in and day out?

• 2:23:36Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:23:36Speaker 01

  And, and there is a way to read this film as like, well, the problem is he could do Lockheed and he would just be dead inside, or he does this and he continues to not see his family and he's, you know, dying in some other way. And there's no, and there's no middle ground, and that's such a bleak read, but the film, but, but what I love about it is that the Coens kind of push you to see it as more optimistic than that. They're reassuring, they're like Jonah Hill to me.

• 2:24:00Griffin Newman?

  Well, and also that Alison Pill is like, it would be nice to have you around more, but isn't like, you better take that job.

• 2:24:05Speaker 01

  Right, right, right.

• 2:24:05Griffin Newman?

  And his children still love him, and you, you can tell that he clearly wishes he could be there a little more, but he is so relieved that like, oh my God, his problem got solved, you know?

• 2:24:14David Sims?

  I'll tell you something.

• 2:24:15Griffin Newman?

  Please.

• 2:24:16David Sims?

  I was married to Alison Pill, home every night.

• 2:24:18Speaker 01

  Woo!

• 2:24:19David Sims?

  No, if I was.

• 2:24:19Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:24:20David Sims?

  Knock, knock.

• 2:24:21Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:24:22David Sims?

  Open the door. I guess I would have keys.

• 2:24:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:24David Sims?

  Key and door.

• 2:24:24Griffin Newman?

  I got a prescription. It says one pill nightly.

• 2:24:28David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 2:24:29Griffin Newman?

  Nightly, do not skip.

• 2:24:30David Sims?

  And thank you for saying that, and I do think it's important.

• 2:24:33Griffin Newman?

  Take with water. Um, I, I, the reason I said earlier-

• 2:24:37Speaker 01

  Good dose of Alison Pill in there.

• 2:24:38Griffin Newman?

  That there's this sort of like realization within Eddie that he is dirty show folk, is that point, which is just like, it's not about just finding joy in a job, but the whole thing about the fucking entertainment industry making stuff is for all the like perceived glamour, if you make it all the way to the top, which is a fucking moonshot, a lazy moonshot, so much of it is so unglamorous, so annoying, so soul crushing, that the only reason you do it is if it, there's just nothing else you can do, right? Like, to some degree, you're broken inside where you're just like, even just being the guy fucking handing out the box lunches, who once George Clooney is giving his speech, seems like the most checked out dude in the world until that moment, and you see him lock in and be like, oh, fuck, Baird's doing a good take, right?

• 2:25:19Griffin Newman?

  As does everyone else on set starts to look up with this like Spielberg gaze of like, we're witnessing something cool happening. That's why we do this job rather than work at a restaurant, right? And I think it's telling that there are the couple of moments where the Lockheed Martin guy is interviewing Eddie. And he'll say like, do you really want to spend all your time like babysitting children? You know, like carny circus folk like he'll say these kind of derogatory things. And every time he does something like that, it cuts back to Mannix and he winces. Where he's just kind of like holding it together, but he's like, don't talk that way about my people.

• 2:25:54Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:25:54Griffin Newman?

  I know you think that I'm the serious grown up who gets things done and they're the silly petulant.

• 2:25:59Speaker 03

  But it's all for them.

• 2:26:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:26:01David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:02Griffin Newman?

  And like, I am one of them. I just do it in a different way.

• 2:26:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:26:05Speaker 03

  He cares.

• 2:26:06Griffin Newman?

  He cares.

• 2:26:07Speaker 03

  Can I just share one final thing?

• 2:26:08Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Please.

• 2:26:09Speaker 03

  Me too.

• 2:26:11Griffin Newman?

  Make it three.

• 2:26:13Speaker 03

  I don't know. We'll see. But the water sequence is awesome.

• 2:26:17Griffin Newman?

  The Johansson.

• 2:26:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. I like when cameras get splashed with water and I want to see that more.

• 2:26:25Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 2:26:26Speaker 03

  Do you like a wet cam? I do.

• 2:26:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:29Speaker 03

  I do.

• 2:26:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:26:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:30Speaker 01

  Sometimes blood does that, dirt does that.

• 2:26:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:33Speaker 01

  But you want the water.

• 2:26:34Speaker 03

  Stain the lens.

• 2:26:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, mess with the lens.

• 2:26:37Speaker 03

  Throw stuff on it.

• 2:26:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, don't check the gate.

• 2:26:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:41Speaker 01

  You want a dirty lens.

• 2:26:43Griffin Newman?

  And keep the gate unchecked.

• 2:26:44Speaker 03

  And then I'll just say with the Roman kind of opening when you see Clooney. I think arches for pedestrians.

• 2:26:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:54Speaker 03

  I want to see more of that again.

• 2:26:56Griffin Newman?

  I'm sorry.

• 2:26:56Speaker 03

  It's so epic to walk under an arch.

• 2:26:59David Sims?

  So you just want to be like on the street? And like, here's an arch. It's not serving any real purpose.

• 2:27:04Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:27:05David Sims?

  But now, do you ever feel that way when you're like walking under some scaffolding on a New York City sidewalk?

• 2:27:09Speaker 03

  I don't feel that way. I'm more like rats.

• 2:27:13Speaker 01

  That's arch in progress.

• 2:27:15David Sims?

  Arch in progress.

• 2:27:16Speaker 01

  Do you go to?

• 2:27:17David Sims?

  Arch to be shocked.

• 2:27:18Speaker 01

  Do you go to Washington Square Park and just?

• 2:27:19David Sims?

  Big arch.

• 2:27:21Speaker 01

  Loop around.

• 2:27:22Griffin Newman?

  You should be crashed.

• 2:27:22David Sims?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 2:27:24Griffin Newman?

  Doing laps.

• 2:27:24David Sims?

  Grand Army Plaza. There's a few big arches around.

• 2:27:27Speaker 01

  Then go to, you should go to Paris and then go into the middle of the Etoile.

• 2:27:32Griffin Newman?

  The Arc de Triomphe.

• 2:27:34David Sims?

  I did last summer and I got a lot of arch.

• 2:27:37Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 2:27:38Griffin Newman?

  I got a taste of it. Yeah.

• 2:27:39David Sims?

  Fucking point me to the French triumphs of late. Jesus, got a whole arch for it.

• 2:27:45Speaker 01

  You're being so nasty and not nostalgic today.

• 2:27:47David Sims?

  Yeah, that's so true. I should be even, ah, Paris.

• 2:27:51Griffin Newman?

  You're being more of a Thessaly thacker when you should be more of a Thor thacker.

• 2:27:54David Sims?

  I can't wait to revisit France in my most excited upcoming new movie, Ratatouille 2.

• 2:28:00Speaker 01

  Why don't they just call it Ratatouille?

• 2:28:02Griffin Newman?

  I hope that by the time this episode comes out.

• 2:28:05David Sims?

  That rumor has been quashed.

• 2:28:07Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:28:07David Sims?

  Definitively.

• 2:28:08Griffin Newman?

  But I also wonder if 50% of the meeting where they're batting about is just like, I mean, you put the two, numeral two in the title, the thing sells itself.

• 2:28:16David Sims?

  Could really put it anywhere.

• 2:28:18Griffin Newman?

  Our marketing department could take the year off.

• 2:28:19David Sims?

  My guess is it's a cat that now cooks with the rat.

• 2:28:23Griffin Newman?

  That would suck. Ben, I've liked every idea you've ever had.

• 2:28:26David Sims?

  Lost all of your credibility.

• 2:28:28Griffin Newman?

  They have to figure out how to get along.

• 2:28:29Speaker 01

  Ben, they can't put a cat in a chef's hat. It's just the cat in the hat.

• 2:28:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:33Speaker 01

  You can't.

• 2:28:33Griffin Newman?

  And he's already got his own movie coming out next year.

• 2:28:35David Sims?

  Damn, okay.

• 2:28:37Speaker 01

  We gotta, we gotta workshop this.

• 2:28:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:39David Sims?

  The film came out, oh.

• 2:28:41Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 2:28:41David Sims?

  What are you gonna say about Shirley?

• 2:28:42Griffin Newman?

  Tell me when the film came out, tell the box office.

• 2:28:45David Sims?

  We love Shirley so much.

• 2:28:46Speaker 01

  I love you guys. I've missed you guys.

• 2:28:48Griffin Newman?

  We've missed you. Our listeners have missed you.

• 2:28:50David Sims?

  Do you remember this?

• 2:28:51Speaker 01

  I've missed hearing Griffin say totemic, which he hasn't said today.

• 2:28:54David Sims?

  Totemic.

• 2:28:55Speaker 01

  You use the word totemic a lot.

• 2:28:57Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna save it. I do.

• 2:28:58Speaker 01

  Haven't I said that to you before? Never mind. Okay, going on.

• 2:29:00Griffin Newman?

  No, I think you have.

• 2:29:01David Sims?

  Do you remember?

• 2:29:01Griffin Newman?

  I was debating whether to say it now or save it for later in the episode, make it count.

• 2:29:04David Sims?

  You were in town last year.

• 2:29:06Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:29:06David Sims?

  I mean, you're off, you're some, you come into town sometimes.

• 2:29:08Speaker 01

  I come into town.

• 2:29:09Griffin Newman?

  I'm in about town.

• 2:29:09David Sims?

  We had dinner at Plastifet.

• 2:29:11Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:29:12Griffin Newman?

  Nice work if you can get it.

• 2:29:13David Sims?

  And then we walk out, if you remember this, we're walking in Clinton Hill. And then I see. Just out of the corner of my eye into the window of like a person's house. And what was happening on the television was something we had successfully blocked out, which was the Trump Biden debate, annihilated Biden for good.

• 2:29:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:33David Sims?

  Like, I think we had been like, let's have dinner and like, we won't worry about the, you know, like, ah, you know, so stressful.

• 2:29:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:39David Sims?

  And then like, I got home and like, my brother was texting me, you know, my wife, where they were like, it's the apocalypse. He's basically stood there not speaking for an hour.

• 2:29:47Griffin Newman?

  I'm trying.

• 2:29:48David Sims?

  Even Trump seems concerned.

• 2:29:50Speaker 01

  No, that was the last happy moment.

• 2:29:52David Sims?

  Like, you went home to Ariana, was it? Like, one of your friends?

• 2:29:55Speaker 01

  I was staying at Ariana's and I think she was like, she, I walk in the door and she goes, Biden's gonna win.

• 2:30:02David Sims?

  And you were like, oh, really? And she was like, no.

• 2:30:05Griffin Newman?

  I looked up because I knew I had deliberately planned something else on that night.

• 2:30:10David Sims?

  We all had the same thought of like, I can't be, you know, watching that.

• 2:30:14Speaker 01

  And we were like, we'll grab dinner after our very hard job.

• 2:30:17Griffin Newman?

  Romley and I went to see Little Shop of Horrors for the third time. And I walked out and I was like, Little Shop, Little Shop. And then I got like 40 texts that are like, it's all fucked.

• 2:30:28Griffin Newman?

  It's all fucked, it's collapsing.

• 2:30:30David Sims?

  Truly. It was one of those things where I was like, oh, I assume you do bad. And they're like, well, you assumed wrong. It's a billion times worse.

• 2:30:36Griffin Newman?

  I think like 10 different people in my life texted me skull emojis.

• 2:30:40Speaker 01

  Wait, that's right. I, I remember being like, oh no, he didn't do well, did he? And she was like, mm-hmm.

• 2:30:45Griffin Newman?

  It's understatement. Right.

• 2:30:47David Sims?

  Uh, first minute was fine. I feel like I pretty quickly went off the rails.

• 2:30:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, he started with one hop, great opening.

• 2:30:53David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:53Speaker 01

  Oh, man. They just kept telling him to say what that.

• 2:30:56David Sims?

  General Motors is alive and Court Pop is dead. What did he start with that? All right. The film came out.

• 2:31:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:01Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 2:31:02David Sims?

  2016.

• 2:31:03Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:31:04David Sims?

  Number two at the box office, opening to 11 million dollars.

• 2:31:07Griffin Newman?

  It ends up at?

• 2:31:08David Sims?

  Domestically, it ended up at 30.

• 2:31:10Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:31:11David Sims?

  And worldwide, it was 665.

• 2:31:13Griffin Newman?

  It is kind of crazy that the Coen brand was so strong at this point that they can make a movie for 22 million dollars that just gets to 30 million dollars, even though most of the public is like, huh?

• 2:31:22Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:31:23Griffin Newman?

  Onto the next one. Um.

• 2:31:26David Sims?

  Um.

• 2:31:27Griffin Newman?

  But okay, yes.

• 2:31:27David Sims?

  So number two.

• 2:31:28Griffin Newman?

  Number two.

• 2:31:29David Sims?

  Number one at the box office.

• 2:31:32David Sims?

  Is a animated sequel, number two, like in its second weekend.

• 2:31:37Griffin Newman?

  It's a deuce, it's in second.

• 2:31:38David Sims?

  No, no, it's not a number two, sorry. It's in its second weekend. It's an animated sequel.

• 2:31:41Griffin Newman?

  Is it a three?

• 2:31:42David Sims?

  Yes, it is.

• 2:31:43Griffin Newman?

  It's a three. Is it Kung Fu Panda 3?

• 2:31:46David Sims?

  Correct.

• 2:31:47Griffin Newman?

  Kate Hudson.

• 2:31:48David Sims?

  Is that right?

• 2:31:49Griffin Newman?

  I believe is Lady Panda in that.

• 2:31:52David Sims?

  Oh.

• 2:31:52Griffin Newman?

  Frank Cranston is Dad Panda. He finds all the other pandas. It's a movie set in the land of the pandas. I have never seen it.

• 2:31:59David Sims?

  I think I've seen that.

• 2:32:01Speaker 01

  And you know so much.

• 2:32:02David Sims?

  I think the only one I haven't seen is four.

• 2:32:05Griffin Newman?

  I haven't seen either of those. I know that one was a co-production with like, I believe Pearl Animation Studios.

• 2:32:12David Sims?

  I've never seen it. I've only seen one and two, I guess.

• 2:32:14Griffin Newman?

  DreamWorks specifically launched a Chinese animation company to get funding from the Chinese government and be like, "And we're gonna make movies for your market!" And it was called Pearl Animation Studios. And I think that one, they were like, "We're doing something kinda interesting. We're not making this one. Pearl is making it." A different company.

• 2:32:33Speaker 01

  That really worked.

• 2:32:34Griffin Newman?

  Really worked. Pearl was shut down five years ago.

• 2:32:37David Sims?

  Three and four are Holdovers from Christmas Time, both very successful movies.

• 2:32:42Griffin Newman?

  Okay, from 2015. I would have to imagine that one of them is Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens.

• 2:32:48David Sims?

  That is number three.

• 2:32:49Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:32:49David Sims?

  At the box office. It has made $906 million in eight weeks.

• 2:32:53Griffin Newman?

  People like to forget that it is still domestically the highest grossing movie of all time.

• 2:32:59David Sims?

  Uh, number four at the box office is...

• 2:33:01Speaker 01

  I do like to forget that.

• 2:33:02Griffin Newman?

  People think that Endgame overtook it because it did worldwide. But domestically, it's Force Awakens by a good margin.

• 2:33:11David Sims?

  Uh...

• 2:33:14Griffin Newman?

  The other one.

• 2:33:15David Sims?

  Is a Best Picture nominee, won some Oscars, big hit.

• 2:33:19Griffin Newman?

  Star Wars: Counter-Programming.

• 2:33:21David Sims?

  I guess so. Grown-up movie for sure.

• 2:33:23Griffin Newman?

  Grown-up movie 2015. It was a big hit. It would cross over. Oh, it is The Revenant.

• 2:33:27David Sims?

  Uh, which... Made a lot of money and it's a big hit.

• 2:33:31Griffin Newman?

  I think socks and is for losers.

• 2:33:33David Sims?

  I've only, I am more of a fan of it than you.

• 2:33:38Griffin Newman?

  I'm wondering if I were to watch it now.

• 2:33:39David Sims?

  It's incredible looking movie.

• 2:33:41Griffin Newman?

  More, but I, I.

• 2:33:42David Sims?

  It's like sort of an unbelievable technical achievement.

• 2:33:45Griffin Newman?

  I will brag that I saw it early. And I was like, this thing sucks. This is DOA. And I had the opposite whole reaction where I walked out and I was like, this thing is making zero dollars and it's fucking coming up empty at the Oscars.

• 2:33:59David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:33:59Griffin Newman?

  Like I had an unvarnished opinion before I'd heard any reviews and that thing just completely bounced off of it.

• 2:34:05David Sims?

  It is not your kind of movie.

• 2:34:07Griffin Newman?

  It's not.

• 2:34:07David Sims?

  I would say sort of mountain man, serious survivalist epic thing.

• 2:34:11Griffin Newman?

  But I also think Leo winning the Oscar for that is like a good encapsulation of a lot of what's wrong with the Oscars and their mentality.

• 2:34:16David Sims?

  Definitely.

• 2:34:17Speaker 01

  You don't think, you don't think actors should suffer?

• 2:34:20David Sims?

  He ate liver.

• 2:34:20Griffin Newman?

  Exactly.

• 2:34:22Speaker 01

  I saw The Revenant with my dad and he walked out and was like, that bear was too small.

• 2:34:28Griffin Newman?

  That's quite a note.

• 2:34:29Speaker 01

  He fixates on like one critique.

• 2:34:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:31Speaker 01

  And it takes him out of it, mostly because if there's a bunch of talking, there's a language barrier and he needs a minute. But that movie.

• 2:34:37Griffin Newman?

  The bear doesn't have a ton of talking. But the bear was too small.

• 2:34:40David Sims?

  No.

• 2:34:40Speaker 01

  The bear was too small.

• 2:34:41David Sims?

  Number five at the box office is new this week. It is a romantic drama, A Sparks.

• 2:34:46Griffin Newman?

  It's a spark.

• 2:34:47David Sims?

  I would say the more forgotten Sparkses.

• 2:34:49Griffin Newman?

  It's one of the more forgotten Sparkses. Interesting. Is it the one with Marsden?

• 2:34:56David Sims?

  No.

• 2:34:59David Sims?

  No.

• 2:35:00Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna try to get to this by, by star. It's not the Julianne Hough, Josh Duhamel one.

• 2:35:06David Sims?

  Yeah, you're gonna struggle with star because I would say this one is a little light on, you know, uh, stardust from the sky.

• 2:35:14Griffin Newman?

  It was a Marsden, uh, Michelle Monahan, I think were the one.

• 2:35:18David Sims?

  You can talk about other Nicholas Sparks movies if you want.

• 2:35:20Griffin Newman?

  But this kinda had.

• 2:35:22David Sims?

  I feel like there, these are two guys who they are hoping, you know, a guy and a gal who they are hoping to make stars.

• 2:35:28Griffin Newman?

  It's not the lucky ones.

• 2:35:29David Sims?

  No.

• 2:35:30Griffin Newman?

  No, is it younger?

• 2:35:31David Sims?

  Nope.

• 2:35:31Speaker 01

  I just looked this up and I forgot this existed.

• 2:35:34Griffin Newman?

  Are the stars young?

• 2:35:35Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 2:35:36David Sims?

  They're in their thirties.

• 2:35:38Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:35:39David Sims?

  Early thirties.

• 2:35:39Griffin Newman?

  But they're trying to launch them as stars.

• 2:35:41David Sims?

  I think so, yeah. These, one, the guy is someone that Hollywood for a few years was like, should he be a star?

• 2:35:47Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 2:35:47David Sims?

  And it was like, no.

• 2:35:49Griffin Newman?

  So it's not the, did Patrick Schwarzenegger do one at some point? But it's not that.

• 2:35:52David Sims?

  I mean, he's about to be like Cyclops or whatever.

• 2:35:54Griffin Newman?

  He's gonna be something. Um, Hollywood was trying to make them happen.

• 2:36:02David Sims?

  I mean, sort of. I'll tell you that the film made twenty-three million on a budget of ten.

• 2:36:07Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:36:07David Sims?

  I'll tell you that it was directed by Ross Katz.

• 2:36:11Griffin Newman?

  Hmm.

• 2:36:12David Sims?

  It also made Adult Beginners.

• 2:36:14Griffin Newman?

  Doesn't help at all.

• 2:36:15David Sims?

  No, it doesn't.

• 2:36:16Griffin Newman?

  Who was the distributor of this picture?

• 2:36:18David Sims?

  The distributor was Lionsgate.

• 2:36:20Griffin Newman?

  Hmm, so it was also kind of maybe a lower tier one.

• 2:36:23David Sims?

  Yeah, and I, I feel like the spark shine is kind of going away at this point. Like, this is a later, you know.

• 2:36:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, this one's tough.

• 2:36:30David Sims?

  Yeah, I mean, I don't think.

• 2:36:31Speaker 01

  I completely forgot this existed.

• 2:36:32Griffin Newman?

  Give me one of the stars and see if, I might not even be able to get this title, but give me, give me one of the stars.

• 2:36:37David Sims?

  Uh, Benjamin Walker.

• 2:36:39Griffin Newman?

  Oh, fuck, yes. And it's, uh, Teresa Palmer.

• 2:36:42David Sims?

  Correct.

• 2:36:43Griffin Newman?

  And it is called, ah, fuck.

• 2:36:45David Sims?

  You've also got Maggie Grace.

• 2:36:47Griffin Newman?

  I can picture the poster.

• 2:36:48David Sims?

  Alexandra Daddario.

• 2:36:49Speaker 01

  You know, the truth is, you could just toss out any word.

• 2:36:51Griffin Newman?

  He's wearing sunglasses and got a dumb smile. It's not called like The Best of Us, is it?

• 2:36:56David Sims?

  No.

• 2:36:57Griffin Newman?

  But the title's almost something that meaningless.

• 2:37:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, just toss out words.

• 2:37:02Griffin Newman?

  All of me. Is there an of in the title?

• 2:37:06Speaker 01

  No, there's a the.

• 2:37:07Griffin Newman?

  The, the blanks?

• 2:37:09David Sims?

  It's called The Choice.

• 2:37:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, that's one of the least existent movies we've ever had come up in a box office.

• 2:37:15David Sims?

  Alexandra Daddario, Tom Welling, Tom Wilkinson.

• 2:37:19Griffin Newman?

  Hummina, hummina, hummina.

• 2:37:20David Sims?

  That's the one getting you going.

• 2:37:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:22David Sims?

  Um, panned by critics. Also new this week at number six.

• 2:37:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:28David Sims?

  Is Pride and Prejudice and Zombies, another sort of bomb.

• 2:37:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:32David Sims?

  Uh, directed by Burr Steers, I believe.

• 2:37:35Griffin Newman?

  I went down a weird Wikipedia rabbit hole on how fucking hot the development of that movie was for 10 years before it ended up just getting kind of fucking dumped in theaters. But people forget that was supposed to be Natalie Portman starring and David O. Russell directing.

• 2:37:51David Sims?

  They dumped it, right. It was like the juice of that gimmick had like long since vanished.

• 2:37:55Griffin Newman?

  And, and fucking Benjamin Walker as Abraham Lincoln Vanquisher Hunter had bombed.

• 2:38:00David Sims?

  Had happened.

• 2:38:01Griffin Newman?

  The thing was over.

• 2:38:02David Sims?

  You've also got a movie I stand for, Craig Gillespie's The Finest Hours.

• 2:38:06Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:38:07David Sims?

  Just fine and getting over that bar. I got the boat over the bar.

• 2:38:11Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:38:11David Sims?

  Uh, you got Ride Along 2.

• 2:38:14Griffin Newman?

  Not.

• 2:38:14David Sims?

  Film you tried to get in a part in, right?

• 2:38:17Griffin Newman?

  I was.

• 2:38:17David Sims?

  You were close?

• 2:38:18Griffin Newman?

  I was close.

• 2:38:19David Sims?

  Yeah. And then they replaced you with Ken Jeong or something?

• 2:38:21Griffin Newman?

  I don't know if I've ever talked about this on mic, or if I've talked about it on mic 80 times.

• 2:38:24David Sims?

  Might be.

• 2:38:24Griffin Newman?

  But they, they wanted me to, I, I would have had to have quit the pilot of Vinyl before it was shot.

• 2:38:32David Sims?

  Yes, that was it, right.

• 2:38:33Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm. Which was like.

• 2:38:34David Sims?

  I mean, at the end of the day, I think it's better that you did Vinyl. It got directed by Martin Scorsese.

• 2:38:40Griffin Newman?

  That's, that's the biggest thing. And it did go to series and it did pay my rent for a year when this podcast made no money.

• 2:38:45David Sims?

  Ride Along 2, like, you know, no one remembers Ride Along 2.

• 2:38:48Griffin Newman?

  You know, the other part of it is the casting director who was really kind of championing me for this part, which was written to be a fucking 20-something Zuckerberg-y annoying guy. And it was me, Will Poulter and Dylan O'Brien.

• 2:38:59David Sims?

  Sure.

• 2:38:59Griffin Newman?

  And it was a test and they wouldn't let me test unless I quit Vinyl. And I came to trivia and I hadn't slept in two days and I was like, this feels like the biggest decision of my career. What do I do? And it was an overlap of two days, but they, uh, between the two productions. But they wouldn't allow it and I had to quit the one job. And I, I chose Vinyl, which was the right move. But the other thing that happened was that casting director had such a bee in her bonnet of like, I want to fucking hire him, that a year later she gets hired onto a new series and says, this is my chance to hire Griffin. And it was The Tick.

• 2:39:30David Sims?

  There you go.

• 2:39:30Griffin Newman?

  If I had done Ride Along 2, I probably also would have done The Tick, which is more important to me.

• 2:39:34David Sims?

  Um.

• 2:39:35Griffin Newman?

  And that's how I met you.

• 2:39:36Speaker 01

  That's how we met.

• 2:39:37Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:39:37David Sims?

  You interviewed him for The Tick?

• 2:39:38Speaker 01

  We're being nostalgic and not nasty, dude.

• 2:39:40Griffin Newman?

  Shirley showed up on set.

• 2:39:42Speaker 01

  I came to set.

• 2:39:43Griffin Newman?

  In what I'm not kidding was probably the hottest day we ever filmed. Was in a cooling tent. The day before that, the tent was a cooling tent that didn't have a fan. They bought the fan because that previous day, Peter had fainted. And so Shirley at least got to be in a tent with a fan. And we, we met.

• 2:40:01David Sims?

  Yeah, we love Shirley.

• 2:40:02Speaker 01

  No, I love you guys.

• 2:40:03Griffin Newman?

  Griffin and Breaking Big. It was the headline.

• 2:40:06Speaker 01

  I mean, I, I remember you guys were, yeah, you guys were doing your podcast. I remember meeting you and you were, and David was like, you're gonna meet my friend. And I was like, I know this.

• 2:40:15Griffin Newman?

  But we'd only been doing the podcast for a little over a year at that point.

• 2:40:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You were very neat. I still remember when you were, we were walking to Olive Garden. I was a fellow at the Atlantic and you were like, I'm, I think my friend and I are gonna do a Star Wars podcast. And I was like, that sounds fun.

• 2:40:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:40:28Speaker 01

  Sounds neat.

• 2:40:28David Sims?

  That sounds right.

• 2:40:29Speaker 01

  You should do that.

• 2:40:29Griffin Newman?

  Good luck with that.

• 2:40:31David Sims?

  Weird choice.

• 2:40:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:40:32Speaker 01

  What, Olive Garden?

• 2:40:34David Sims?

  It was kind of a weird choice.

• 2:40:36Speaker 01

  I-

• 2:40:36David Sims?

  Still the only time I've ever been.

• 2:40:38Speaker 01

  Um, yeah. I don't know why we did that.

• 2:40:40David Sims?

  You, Joe and Kevin.

• 2:40:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it was a bit. Cause we were like-

• 2:40:43David Sims?

  It was Kevin being like, let's, oh yeah, I love Olive Garden. You've never been. Yeah, whatever.

• 2:40:47Griffin Newman?

  The breadsticks are good. The breadsticks still hit.

• 2:40:49David Sims?

  Taked in dreams. Number ten of the box office is Dirty Grandpa.

• 2:40:53Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 2:40:53Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 2:40:53David Sims?

  And that's the ten of the Hail Caesar. And that's that. That's over.

• 2:40:59Speaker 01

  February 2016.

• 2:41:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Um, Shirley, thank you so much.

• 2:41:05Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 2:41:08Griffin Newman?

  I'm so glad we made it happen. It's gotta happen again sooner.

• 2:41:11Speaker 01

  I'll be back in town.

• 2:41:12Griffin Newman?

  Get David on a train to LA.

• 2:41:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:41:16Griffin Newman?

  How absurd of you.

• 2:41:17David Sims?

  She doesn't get enough until Brahms enters.

• 2:41:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:20David Sims?

  Uh, number 10 of the box office is Dirty Grandpa.

• 2:41:22Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 2:41:23Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 2:41:23David Sims?

  And that's the 10 of the Hail Caesar. And that's that. That's over.

• 2:41:29Speaker 01

  February 2016.

• 2:41:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Um, Shirley, thank you so much.

• 2:41:35Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 2:41:38Griffin Newman?

  I'm so glad we made it happen. It's gotta happen again sooner.

• 2:41:41Speaker 01

  I'll be back in town.

• 2:41:42Griffin Newman?

  Get David on a train to LA.

• 2:41:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:41:52Griffin Newman?

  David is asleep. Um.

• 2:41:55Speaker 01

  No, he's just doing the whale again.

• 2:41:58Griffin Newman?

  He's too tired to even do the whale. Shirley, is there anything you wanna plug?

• 2:42:01Speaker 01

  Uh, oh gosh.

• 2:42:02Griffin Newman?

  Kind of a whale. It was like whale post-heart attack.

• 2:42:07Speaker 01

  It's a tiny whale.

• 2:42:08Griffin Newman?

  It was a little whale.

• 2:42:09Speaker 01

  It's the dead whale in the film, The Shallows.

• 2:42:11Griffin Newman?

  Baby Baluga.

• 2:42:16Speaker 01

  Um, anything I want to plug?

• 2:42:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:18Speaker 01

  I don't know, my iPhone in because it needs charging.

• 2:42:21Griffin Newman?

  10 comedy points, great joke.

• 2:42:22Speaker 01

  Thank you. I don't know. I'm still at the Atlantic with David over here.

• 2:42:25Griffin Newman?

  Hell, yeah.

• 2:42:26Speaker 01

  You know, great to always work with David.

• 2:42:27Griffin Newman?

  Sling reviews.

• 2:42:29Speaker 01

  How, how things have changed over time.

• 2:42:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:31Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, I don't know. I, I'm, I'm around.

• 2:42:34Griffin Newman?

  Hell, yeah. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe. Uh, tune in next week for the Battle of Buster Scruggs.

• 2:42:43David Sims?

  Uh, that's right.

• 2:42:44Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:42:45David Sims?

  We don't know who's on that one.

• 2:42:46Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:42:46David Sims?

  Probably Buster himself.

• 2:42:48Griffin Newman?

  I think we're very close to booking Buster, but he also has thrown his hat in the ring for League of Their Own. So it's, we don't know which one he's gonna end up on. And as always, Shirley, thank you for another totemic episode of this podcast.

• 2:43:03David Sims?

  Wow.

• 2:43:04Speaker 01

  Oh, man, I'm honored.

• 2:43:06Speaker 03

  Okay, that's a wrap on Shirley. Great girl.

• 2:43:11Speaker 03

  You two have to stay and record ads.

• 2:43:19Speaker 03

  Okay, all right, gang.

• 2:43:20David Sims?

  All right, let's go.

• 2:43:21Griffin Newman?

  I got my quote right.

• 2:43:22Speaker 03

  All right. Um, I'd like us to have fun out there. All right.

• 2:43:26Speaker 01

  Thanks, Coach.

• 2:43:27Speaker 03

  Really bring your true self, feel authentic. Okay?

• 2:43:30Griffin Newman?

  I can't, is this your impression of a director? It does feel very soccer, Coach.

• 2:43:34Speaker 01

  I'm suddenly nervous. I don't know what to tell you.

• 2:43:37Griffin Newman?

  You need to have big director bullhorn energy.

• 2:43:41Speaker 03

  All right. Well, listen, I think, um, we should get into it.

• 2:43:44Griffin Newman?

  Yep.

• 2:43:45Speaker 03

  All right. Um, action.

• 2:43:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:43:50Speaker 03

  Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hostly. Our creative producer is Marie Bardi Salinas, and our associate producer is A.J. McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by A.J. McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by J.J. Birch. Our theme song is by L.A. Montgomery and the great American novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Ali Moss and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon, Blank Check Special Features,

• 2:44:32Speaker 03

  for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at Blank Check Pod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook, on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.