The Hudsucker Proxy with Mike Mitchell & Nick Wiger

(Gestures at a circle) You know, for kids! Mike Mitchell and Nick Wiger of the Doughboys join us for a freewheeling, gut-busting episode about the time Joel Silver gave the Coens a bunch of money to make a “commercial film” and then it ended up being 1994’s The Hudsucker Proxy. A sampling of topics discussed: Paul Newman being hot up until the day he died (and possibly after), whether or not this movie has a Sturges protagonist in a Capra film or vice versa, whether or not the previous question even matters, the fact that Griffin has never seen The Wire yet has watched every episode of Greg the Bunny, the amount of baby wipes David has to buy in a month, the extent to which the style of humor in Hudsucker overlaps with that of The Simpsons, and a whole bunch of Yaddle talk for some reason. Read Caity Weaver’s Mozzarella Sticks piece from 2014 https://www.gawkerarchives.com/my-14-hour-search-for-the-end-of-tgi-fridays-endless-ap-1606122925 Sign up for Check Book https://blankcheckpod.substack.com/welcome, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. http://www.patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter https://x.com/blankcheckpod?lang=en, Instagram https://www.instagram.com/blankcheckpod/?hl=en, Threads https://www.threads.net/@blankcheckpod?xmt=AQGzctAh4mbWTwYzCV1pzNT6AMV9o99EOfymi8TLR5mTde0 and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/blankcheckpodcast/! Buy some real nerdy merch https://kinshipgoods.com/blankcheck Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/blankies/s/gpcOkQr8Sv or Discord https://discord.gg/Q6YGSR3JrA For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com https://www.blankcheckpod.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 0:03Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 0:03Griffin Newman?

  We did a live show.

• 0:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, remember?

• 0:05Griffin Newman?

  Ranking Scorsese at the Bell House in Brooklyn. We did the definitive power ranking of Martin Scorsese things.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  Uh, it was so fun. Uh, it was very silly.

• 0:15Griffin Newman?

  Ben and Marie were with us and they're with us right now.

• 0:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, hey.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Hey, everyone, or should I say, oh?

• 0:20Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 0:22Griffin Newman?

  And thanks to our friends at Dynasty Typewriter. It was livestreamed for the first time ever. But also, the replay is still up there, but only until October 30th.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  So just a few more days.

• 0:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  You can get it at dynasty.tv.

• 0:36Griffin Newman?

  Dynasty.tv.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  It's $20. We had a blast and the Spreadmaster really got to work.

• 0:43Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah. I was moving things around. Laptop was on.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  I don't know if I'd have seen you that happy.

• 0:48Griffin Newman?

  You were thrilled. You were like a pick and share.

• 0:50Speaker 01

  I was locked in.

• 0:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, very locked in and you were funny.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  Thank you. You were funny. You were also funny.

• 0:56Griffin Newman?

  Oh, thank you.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  And if you want to see like, you know, Griffin's shine box on camera, it's the only way to see it.

• 1:02Griffin Newman?

  You might see me shine Marie's shoes.

• 1:04Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you're into that sort of content.

• 1:07Griffin Newman?

  If that gets you off.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  So once again, that's at dynasty.tv.

• 1:39Speaker 04

  You punch in at 8:30 every morning, except you punch in at 7:30 following a business holiday. Unless it's Monday, then you punch in at 8 o'clock. Punch in late and they podcast you. Incoming articles get a voucher, outgoing articles provide a voucher. Move any article without a voucher and they podcast you. Letter size without a voucher, letter size a green voucher, oversized a yellow voucher, parcel size a maroon voucher, wrong color voucher, and they podcast you. 678-704-9A/6. That is your employee number. It will not be repeated. Without your employee number, you cannot get your paycheck. Inter-office mail code is 37, intra-office mail 37/3, outside mail is 3/37. Code it wrong and they podcast you. This has been your orientation. Is there anything you do not understand? Is there anything you understand only partially?

• 2:23Speaker 04

  If you have not been fully oriented, you must file a complaint with personnel. File a faulty complaint and they podcast you.

• 2:30Griffin Newman?

  And then in brackets underneath that line of dialogue, spoken at 160 words per minute.

• 2:36David Sims?

  Um, you know, uh, when you watch a screwball comedy on your modern television and you have the subtitles on, you know, it's a screwball comedy when the subtitles can't include all the dialogue. They have to cut out lines.

• 2:49Griffin Newman?

  They're editing. And just a note, um, if you're going to scream. Oh, sure. After spending 30 minutes setting up levels. Just give me a heads up. Yeah.

• 2:58David Sims?

  That guy.

• 2:59Griffin Newman?

  Maybe the most time we've ever spent perfecting levels before a record, then I immediately fucked it all up.

• 3:06David Sims?

  No, you're fine. You're fine.

• 3:07Griffin Newman?

  You want to, hey, you want to dock me? I'll think about it. I made that sound sexual. I'm saying you can dock my peg.

• 3:12David Sims?

  I don't think he thought it was sexual.

• 3:14Griffin Newman?

  Well, I just want.

• 3:15David Sims?

  Is docking when you like put your dicks together?

• 3:18Speaker 02

  I think there is an actual sexual connotation for docking.

• 3:20Griffin Newman?

  Docking is when you put the head of one penis into.

• 3:24David Sims?

  First time.

• 3:24Griffin Newman?

  Into the foreskin of another.

• 3:25David Sims?

  I think it's uncircumcised. Right. It needs circumcised. Yeah, you need one uncircumcised.

• 3:30Griffin Newman?

  To be fair.

• 3:31David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 3:32Griffin Newman?

  Both could be uncircumcised. You just need at least.

• 3:35David Sims?

  Right. You just, but you need one, one docking station.

• 3:37Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 3:38David Sims?

  Essentially.

• 3:38Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 3:39Speaker 03

  Wax biting his lip, trying to get in the docking conversation.

• 3:44David Sims?

  That guy, uh, the orienter, uh, actor's name is, uh, Christopher Darga. I just looked him up because I was like, who is that guy? He works all the time.

• 3:54Griffin Newman?

  There are.

• 3:55David Sims?

  He has like 10 credits a year on TV shows and stuff.

• 3:57Griffin Newman?

  There are like 30 people in this movie who have exactly one scene and I think give one of the greatest performances in the history of film. The blue letter guy.

• 4:05David Sims?

  Uh huh.

• 4:05Griffin Newman?

  Uh, Musburger secretary.

• 4:08David Sims?

  Okay. The one who screams or the one who.

• 4:10Griffin Newman?

  Who, I don't see an appointment in the books.

• 4:13David Sims?

  Too funny.

• 4:13Griffin Newman?

  Like everyone is just like a great face, a great voice, a great rhythm. Yeah.

• 4:18David Sims?

  My favorite though is just like to get like two dozen bald, like middle-aged guys who are just like, like, I love that.

• 4:25Speaker 02

  Those, those guys are great.

• 4:27David Sims?

  So funny.

• 4:27Speaker 02

  As far as stock characters go though, my favorite is the little lady who kind of talks like this. And this movie has so many of those ladies.

• 4:36David Sims?

  That is a good, or you know what I like? Um, when Hudsucker, uh, hits the ground.

• 4:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. What you mean when the street is wearing Huds.

• 4:43David Sims?

  Exactly. Uh, yes. Uh, the lady who goes like. Like, that's a good type of lady. Like, a big lady in like, a sort of fancy outfit with like, a little thing on her head, you know, like, a little net.

• 4:54Speaker 02

  I think it's the same lady. I think that's just like, they're just at different emotional points.

• 4:58David Sims?

  Yeah, it's good stuff.

• 5:00Speaker 02

  God bless them.

• 5:00Griffin Newman?

  Different types, yeah. No, it's got a lot of ladies like this, and a lot of guys like this.

• 5:05David Sims?

  He backed away at the end.

• 5:06Griffin Newman?

  I did. I'm trying to be considerate towards Ben. There's the, the blue letter guy has two, it's the way he solves two specific words. It's the third time I think he says "blue letter" when he tries to accentuate and go, "A blue letter." And then he ends it with going, "Must be delivered to Musburger." "Musburger."

• 5:28David Sims?

  Uh, Richard Schiff, uh, the great Emmy-winning actor, is in the cast as Mailroom Screamer. I didn't even notice.

• 5:37Griffin Newman?

  He must be a background screamer.

• 5:38David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 5:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 5:39David Sims?

  But like, to be credited as a screamer in "Hut Sucker," that feels good.

• 5:42Griffin Newman?

  This, like, the supporting, not the supporting cast, but like, all the day players in this movie feel like they were pulled out of a time machine.

• 5:50David Sims?

  A hundred percent.

• 5:51Griffin Newman?

  Like, all the modern-day actors who are recognizable, you're like, "Oh, that's like, smart to think about a combination of people who would be able to approximate this old acting style, who had pieces of this in their modern screen personas." And then every guy who's just like, a face I've never seen before, I, my inclination is like, "They got a fucking phone booth and they went back to the 30s." And they pulled a guy off the Paramount lot. The guy's at the fucking diner.

• 6:14David Sims?

  It's great. I, I, and I went into this movie, I had never seen it before. And so, in the first 15 minutes, I was like, "What the fuck is going on, going on here? I had no idea." And just so many great, and like, at first, I was like, "Is this over the top? Like, what is happening here?" You were worried that I wouldn't like this movie.

• 6:30Griffin Newman?

  Let me clarify.

• 6:31David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 6:31Griffin Newman?

  This is one of my 10 favorite movies of all time.

• 6:33David Sims?

  Wow.

• 6:34Griffin Newman?

  This is one of my favorite movies we will ever cover on this podcast.

• 6:36David Sims?

  So is this your number one, Coens?

• 6:37Griffin Newman?

  Just in terms-

• 6:38David Sims?

  Not to spoil our, you know, list.

• 6:40Griffin Newman?

  I do not think it is their best film, and I think when we get to the end of this series, I-

• 6:44David Sims?

  You'll be wrestling with best versus favorite.

• 6:46Griffin Newman?

  I actually can't rank this at number one.

• 6:48David Sims?

  Sure.

• 6:48Griffin Newman?

  There are better films I think they've made. And in a way where the distance between them is great enough that it would be absurd of me to put it higher. And yet I have seen this so many fucking times is one of my ultimate comfort food movies. I like it more every single time I watch it is a movie that is so squarely pitched at all of my interests. My sense of humor, my sensibility, my like dream movie aesthetics, all of that. So I was just like very protective of this episode.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  This is one of your rewatchables.

• 7:19Griffin Newman?

  This is one of my ultimate, top tier rewatch.

• 7:22David Sims?

  Should we get Simmons on?

• 7:23Speaker 03

  We gotta get Simmons on.

• 7:25Griffin Newman?

  I'm also like every.

• 7:26Speaker 02

  John Mahoney, John Mahoney is like Eddie House in this movie. Just raining threes off the bench.

• 7:30David Sims?

  He would have 10 minutes on the end of Nicole.

• 7:32Speaker 03

  You know what? I agree with him. The Eddie House thing is spot on.

• 7:36David Sims?

  No, I mean, Mahoney's good.

• 7:37Griffin Newman?

  Mahoney's great.

• 7:38David Sims?

  Really good.

• 7:39Griffin Newman?

  Every other movie that I would put on this tier, I could like form more of an argument on the right day of like, would I put that on my Sight and Sound top 10? Whereas with this, I'd be like, that's silly. I'd put a different Cohen's on. But because it is such a specific flavor and I care about it so much, we were trying to find an episode. You threw your hat in for this and I was just like, Mitch, I don't think you're gonna dislike it, but I don't wanna run the risk. I just want to know you have seen it before we give you the episode for sure.

• 8:09Speaker 03

  And I watched it early to make sure and I was then mad at you because I.

• 8:12Griffin Newman?

  You sent me a text. How could you ever?

• 8:14Speaker 03

  Yeah. How could you ever think that I wouldn't, wouldn't love it? Yeah. It's great.

• 8:17Speaker 02

  I, but I'm, I'm a little bit curious, just you like, knowing how much you love this movie and knowing that y'all do guestless episodes. And you were kind enough to fit us in when we were in town, but I was like, that, that struck me as like, oh, this is just gonna be a guestless one. And we're just gonna hear, you know, Griffin go off of that.

• 8:32David Sims?

  A lot of potential guestless episodes for the Coen brothers though. And then everyone wants them.

• 8:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, sure.

• 8:37David Sims?

  People want them.

• 8:38Griffin Newman?

  And also the other ones that we've done that are guestless, even if they're like personal favorites of ours, they're also movies that are like so culturally huge. That you're like between our love.

• 8:47David Sims?

  An E T, a social network, some big movie where there's plenty to.

• 8:51Griffin Newman?

  Robocop, um, uh, Back to the Future, these things where you're like, there's also so much cultural shit to talk about. There's interesting production stuff on this movie, but this is so much closer to being a movie that doesn't exist in a weird way. Even though its reputation has risen.

• 9:06David Sims?

  No, my wife was like, what the fuck is this? And not in a mad way, just like. How did this get approved?

• 9:12Griffin Newman?

  I think it's categorically still the least known of all of their movies.

• 9:15Speaker 02

  It's kind of a, it's kind of amazing that it exists and also that they were able to get this made like pre Fargo, like before they were at a point where they had like, you know.

• 9:25David Sims?

  When they were guys, but they weren't Oscar.

• 9:27Griffin Newman?

  We're gonna get into this, but this is their first blank check and it's crazy because it's a blank check they are given based on just how good they are.

• 9:33David Sims?

  Right.

• 9:34Griffin Newman?

  Even though they had yet to make a movie that made money, really.

• 9:37David Sims?

  On Letterboxd, which I always find interesting is a pulse of, you know, the young, the young.

• 9:42Griffin Newman?

  But just how many people have logged?

• 9:44David Sims?

  When you, when you go by popularity, it is above every, is below everything but intolerable cruelty and the lady killers, which makes sense because those are the least, those two are the least regarded.

• 9:54Speaker 02

  But in terms of number of like people who've logged it, not necessarily rating, okay.

• 9:58Griffin Newman?

  Right, right. That's literally just people who have pressed, I have watched this movie.

• 10:02Speaker 02

  So my, I mean, speaking of wives, my wife Natalie, this is also one of her top 10 favorite movies of all time. And so I had a, I had a, when you, you know, one reason we're talking about hot sucker, I have a personal connection through her. You, I'm, I'm putting this movie on at home and she's like reciting the opening narration, like it's like that level of fandom and that.

• 10:21David Sims?

  You got a good one, Nick.

• 10:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. Uh, uh, hey, don't I know it? You gotta get yourself a good watch. It's pretty important.

• 10:31Griffin Newman?

  How do we even describe the?

• 10:32David Sims?

  The wife guy, a wife guy is basically being crucified, sitting down? Is that what's going on? Nick sort of like outstretched his limbs.

• 10:39Griffin Newman?

  Leaned back and put his arms out in a T pose. Let's also acknowledge that Nick just broke a chair right before recording.

• 10:45Speaker 02

  I did, look, here's the thing.

• 10:47Griffin Newman?

  He basically spilled himself onto the floor.

• 10:49David Sims?

  I, I'm gonna say this.

• 10:50Speaker 02

  I was late to the record and then I broke a chair. So like I've, I'm, I'm coming in, starting behind.

• 10:56David Sims?

  You, you're trying to, and then you try to say that's like what I would be known for.

• 11:00Speaker 02

  I think if you were gonna put money on one of the doughboys is going to be late to the blank check record and break a chair at the studio.

• 11:05Griffin Newman?

  Mitch and I.

• 11:06Speaker 02

  I think that I would have.

• 11:07Griffin Newman?

  Mitch and I thought.

• 11:08Speaker 02

  Plus 850 versus Mitch.

• 11:10Griffin Newman?

  We thought we were gonna beat Sims here and we were so excited and it turned out Sims got here early. But we thought like we're on track to beat him. And then if we're both earlier than you guys.

• 11:25Griffin Newman?

  We, we win forever.

• 11:26Speaker 03

  We win forever.

• 11:27Griffin Newman?

  Let the record show.

• 11:28Speaker 03

  And tomorrow doesn't matter when we record a Dog Boys episode. If Griffin and I are 45, 50 minutes late, it doesn't matter.

• 11:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it doesn't matter.

• 11:36Speaker 03

  They're, they're, they're going silent. They don't like this.

• 11:38Griffin Newman?

  I love it. This is, look, this is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

• 11:42David Sims?

  I'm David.

• 11:43Griffin Newman?

  It's a podcast about filmography. It's directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Hudsucker Proxy is a pretty good example of that.

• 11:54David Sims?

  I would say it is their most sort of, uh, it's their most obvious blank check, even though it wasn't, you know, a hundred million dollar movie or whatever, but right?

• 12:03Griffin Newman?

  Totally.

• 12:04David Sims?

  Yes.

• 12:04Griffin Newman?

  And we'll talk about it. It was like, the first time they consciously were like, can we make something that's more of a commercial crowd pleaser? It is what is fascinating about this movie is like, they don't think of it as a like, one for us that we're getting away with. They were like, it is time for us to team up with Joel Silver and start making like blockbuster hit comedies. And this is their calculation of like, yeah, a movie that everyone will want to go see.

• 12:30Speaker 03

  You, you saying it's one of the lesser known movies, I'll say this, from my perspective, this was a huge blockbuster, uh, case movie, like the, the, the, the cover movie.

• 12:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 12:41David Sims?

  Sure.

• 12:41Speaker 03

  It was cause, and I had no idea what it was about.

• 12:43David Sims?

  Because it's a really weird poster.

• 12:45Griffin Newman?

  You're like, what the fuck is this?

• 12:46Speaker 03

  I thought it was about, I, I honestly genuinely thought it was about vacuums. And I think it was Hudsucker and in, and on the cassette, a box.

• 12:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 12:54Speaker 03

  His hair is kind of going crazy. So I was like, oh, this is a vacuum movie. The vacuum is in reverse or something here.

• 13:00Griffin Newman?

  And he's putting a hula hoop in a way where you almost at first wouldn't quite understand what's going on.

• 13:05Speaker 03

  Yes. Yeah. I had no, I, I, I didn't, I knew nothing about the hula hoop until I saw it was, but this was a huge blockbuster video. Like, hey, look at that movie. I should maybe see that at some point and never, never did. And this was the only Coen Brothers movie I've never seen.

• 13:16Griffin Newman?

  I just think that, that's wild. I think every bigger budget movie they make after this, and they've never made a huge budget film.

• 13:24David Sims?

  Like what's their most expensive movie? True Grit?

• 13:26Griffin Newman?

  I think True Grit probably costs like 50 or 60.

• 13:28David Sims?

  Sure.

• 13:28Griffin Newman?

  I don't think they've ever gone over that.

• 13:30David Sims?

  True Grit is listed at 35.

• 13:32Griffin Newman?

  This is what's crazy about them, right? Cause like this still might be their highest budget film. At $40 million 25 years ago.

• 13:40Speaker 03

  Is True Grit?

• 13:41Griffin Newman?

  20 years ago.

• 13:41Speaker 03

  Is True?

• 13:42Griffin Newman?

  30 years ago.

• 13:42Speaker 03

  Is True Grit or No Country a bigger hit for them?

• 13:45Griffin Newman?

  True Grit is their biggest hit.

• 13:46Speaker 03

  True Grit is the biggest. Oh.

• 13:47Griffin Newman?

  True Grit was a blockbuster. And then it's like, um, No Country and Burn After Reading, both were really big.

• 13:55Speaker 03

  Wow, Burn After Reading is right up there with, wow.

• 13:57Griffin Newman?

  Weirdly made almost as much as No Country.

• 13:59Speaker 03

  That's wild.

• 14:00Griffin Newman?

  Having that much reputation. And then everything after that is sort of like, well, they keep their budgets low enough that the return on investment's okay. And like things like Big Lebowski that bombed at the time, but obviously it becomes so profitable through just being like now culturally ubiquitous. But it felt like this was the last time that they were like, yeah, if they give us like huge studio money, everyone will come see our movie. And it scares them in a way where they maybe become like incredibly responsible after this. This is a mini series on the films of the Coen Brothers. It's called Pod Country for No Casts. We could have called it the Podcaster Proxy, or the Pod Sucker Casty, or many other things. Yeah.

• 14:39David Sims?

  The Hot Sucker Proxy is a, is a bad title. I've grown used to it.

• 14:44Griffin Newman?

  Same.

• 14:45Speaker 03

  It's a bad title.

• 14:46David Sims?

  It's a bad title.

• 14:46Speaker 03

  It is a bad title. I mean, a confused child me. I mean, a fourteen year old me.

• 14:50David Sims?

  Me as well.

• 14:51Griffin Newman?

  It is basically designed to be remembered incorrectly.

• 14:55David Sims?

  Right. And it also doesn't even matter that much to the plot.

• 15:00Speaker 02

  Well, he is the titular proxy.

• 15:01Griffin Newman?

  It does describe.

• 15:03David Sims?

  I guess.

• 15:04Griffin Newman?

  The central premise, but in the weirdest way.

• 15:06David Sims?

  But what should it be called? I don't know.

• 15:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 15:09David Sims?

  It's not like I'm like, but it should have been called like the Hula Hoop Man. Like, I don't know what you call this movie.

• 15:13Griffin Newman?

  Or dumb CEO or some like shitty.

• 15:15David Sims?

  Dumb CEO.

• 15:16Speaker 03

  Dumb CEO is pretty good.

• 15:17Speaker 02

  Dumb CEO would have been pretty good.

• 15:19David Sims?

  Carrot Top had already made Chairman of the Board.

• 15:21Griffin Newman?

  Right. Well, Norm had already suggested you spell it B O R E D.

• 15:26Griffin Newman?

  Uh, no, actually this predates.

• 15:28David Sims?

  Ninety-eight. So they could have called it Chairman of the Board.

• 15:30Griffin Newman?

  They could have called it Chairman of the Board. Can I introduce our guest?

• 15:33David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 15:34Griffin Newman?

  Cause it's very exciting. For the fifth time on this show, entering the Fifth Timers Club, but first time in person.

• 15:41Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 15:42Griffin Newman?

  We've finally done it. Ten years of our two podcasts coexisting. We have finally crossed the streams with all four of us in the same room on mics. This has never happened.

• 15:53Speaker 02

  This is wild. This is happening for Blank Check today and then tomorrow. And I think the episodes will be out in reverse order. Tomorrow we're recording, we're doing the opposite. Y'all are coming to Headgum, New York and recording an episode of Doughboys.

• 16:04Griffin Newman?

  Home and home.

• 16:05Speaker 02

  It's, we're doing a home and a home, and then we're ending both of our podcasts, which is huge.

• 16:08Griffin Newman?

  It's over.

• 16:08David Sims?

  So exciting. A murder-suicide.

• 16:12Griffin Newman?

  The Patreon, to be clear, stays turned off.

• 16:14David Sims?

  Yeah, Patreon's on.

• 16:15Griffin Newman?

  We're doing a murder-suicide and we're placing bets. We're creating an online marketplace to place bets on who's doing the murder versus the suicide.

• 16:24Griffin Newman?

  Wow, yeah.

• 16:25Speaker 03

  Is it all four of us?

• 16:26Griffin Newman?

  Roger Rabbit. They Live. Mm-hmm. Seven. Mm-hmm. 1941. Yeah. And now this. So three, like, huge, kinda classic landmark films for their directors. And then, within this year, 2025 year of our Lord, a sort of themed doubleheader of, like, early whiffs, big-budget comedies from legendary directors. Except 1941, I would argue, kinda stinks. And this, I would argue, was misunderstood at the time.

• 16:54Speaker 03

  This is much, much better than 1941, for sure.

• 16:56Speaker 02

  I think this is a legitimately great movie.

• 16:58Griffin Newman?

  I agree.

• 16:58Speaker 02

  I love the Hot Sucker.

• 16:59Griffin Newman?

  It's 10 out of 10.

• 17:00Speaker 02

  I think it's great. And I've seen it probably a half dozen times. Uh, it's, uh, you know, it's so singular. Like, and I know, that's a weird thing to say about something that's so clearly evoking, like, you know, the screwball comedies of yesteryear. But it does, like, it, like, I don't know, it kind of has such a, like, it existing in 1994 as one of those makes it feel so distinct. And there's other stuff that's kind of, like, of that era, but it, but that's doing a similar thing, but it's things like the Tim Burton Batman or the Warren Beatty Dick Tracy. And those are, like, tied to IP. And they also don't have the same sort of, like, cadence of dialogue, which is such

• 17:45Speaker 02

  a characteristic of this.

• 17:46Griffin Newman?

  I have a lot of thoughts on this, on why this film transcends. I think at the time, it was written off as being a bit of a pastiche. And I think that is actually an incorrect label for what this movie is doing and why this movie actually works. But it makes sense why people were sort of putting up a guard against it. I do just want to formally introduce our guests.

• 18:06Speaker 02

  Oh, right.

• 18:07Speaker 03

  I'm Googling "pastiche" as you do that, so this is perfect.

• 18:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 18:11Griffin Newman?

  From the Doughboys podcast.

• 18:12Speaker 02

  Italian noodles usually served with sauce.

• 18:20Speaker 03

  I could spell it correctly. I just don't know what it means.

• 18:24Griffin Newman?

  From the Doughboys podcast, Eden Cohen, Mike Mitchell.

• 18:29Speaker 03

  How you doing? Did I peek?

• 18:31Griffin Newman?

  And the self sucker proxy.

• 18:33Speaker 03

  There we go.

• 18:34Griffin Newman?

  Nick Wiger.

• 18:35Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 18:35Griffin Newman?

  Okay, so self sucker proxy was submitted by AJ McKean, our production coordinator.

• 18:41Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 18:41Griffin Newman?

  And Eden Cohen was.

• 18:43Speaker 03

  Eden Cohen.

• 18:44Griffin Newman?

  Eaton. E I T apostrophe N Cohen was submitted by A L Z A N D Y K. On the Blankies Discord.

• 18:55Speaker 03

  If we probably have, we probably know that that person from Doughboys 2, I'm sure. I'm sure there's crossover.

• 19:01Griffin Newman?

  Uh, can I read a couple more?

• 19:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, please. Yeah.

• 19:04Griffin Newman?

  Mr. Mooseburger.

• 19:05Speaker 03

  Okay, I like that.

• 19:06Griffin Newman?

  Guy who always needs the double stitch.

• 19:09Speaker 03

  That's, that's good.

• 19:10Griffin Newman?

  Six letter word for the condition of the hypo- hypo- yes. The most liquid businessman on the street.

• 19:17David Sims?

  Yeah, I mean, we're, we're kind of just doing hood sucker jokes now.

• 19:21Griffin Newman?

  An extruded plastic dingus.

• 19:23David Sims?

  That's funny.

• 19:24Griffin Newman?

  This one, out of respect to Mike Mitchell being in such excellent shape, Tim Robbins.

• 19:31Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 19:31Griffin Newman?

  Tim Robbins.

• 19:32Speaker 03

  Hey, that's nice.

• 19:34David Sims?

  You want that Tim Robbins, but long. He's a long fella.

• 19:37Speaker 02

  He is a long fella. He is so, he's too long.

• 19:39Griffin Newman?

  And out of respect to Nick's recent legal status, a man who isn't allowed near a hula hoop because they're, you know, for kids.

• 19:48Griffin Newman?

  Those are all from Hoffbeest.

• 19:50Speaker 02

  Very good.

• 19:50David Sims?

  Paul Newman is 5'10". He's like, he's not a short guy. Like, he's a sort of regular size. And Robbins is just like, a fuck, he's a foot taller than him.

• 19:58Griffin Newman?

  Is Robbins 6'6"?

• 20:00David Sims?

  I think Robbins might be close to like de Blasio height.

• 20:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's a tall drink of water.

• 20:04David Sims?

  He's listed at 6'5".

• 20:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I, like, am I wrong that?

• 20:08David Sims?

  The tallest Oscar winning actor ever.

• 20:10Speaker 02

  Wow, that is, that is wild. I feel like when I generally am seeing Tim Robbins in movies.

• 20:18Speaker 02

  Things are blocked to not to de-emphasize.

• 20:20David Sims?

  Right, because you don't want him to look insane unless it's part of the plot.

• 20:24Speaker 02

  And here the cones do the opposite. Where they're just trying to emphasize like how, you know, tall and how much he's sticking out.

• 20:30David Sims?

  They give him the hair. Tease his hair. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 20:32Griffin Newman?

  Big lumbering galoot.

• 20:33David Sims?

  It's like when Bart wears the pinstripe suit and, you know, in The Simpsons to try and look tall.

• 20:40Speaker 02

  All right.

• 20:40David Sims?

  Yeah. Like, it looks like they're making him this cartoon character.

• 20:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, we're getting into Fertile.

• 20:44David Sims?

  He has the little chihuahua.

• 20:45Griffin Newman?

  It's a good discussion here. It's a great bit. We're getting to Fertile discussion. I just don't want to go too much further without remembering to play the drop, Ben. I think we have a little drop.

• 20:52Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 20:52Speaker 03

  Oh, we have a drop? This is exciting. I never thought of Yoda as like a sexual creature until Yaddle, honestly.

• 21:01Speaker 03

  Did Yoda and Yaddle, did Yoda and Yaddle fuck?

• 21:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would think they probably fucked.

• 21:05Speaker 03

  You think they really fucked? That's really funny.

• 21:08Speaker 02

  Buddha, man.

• 21:09Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 21:12David Sims?

  Oh, my God.

• 21:16Speaker 02

  Well, good. And that's canon.

• 21:17Speaker 03

  Until JJ came and fucking wiped it all out.

• 21:20David Sims?

  You know what? Hearing how much our podcast sucks on your podcast just makes me feel bad we're guests. Well, these are two podcasts that have discussed Yaddle because we discussed plenty.

• 21:30Speaker 02

  We discussed a lot of Yaddle.

• 21:31David Sims?

  Back when we did the prequels.

• 21:33Griffin Newman?

  First year of our podcast, only prequel talk.

• 21:35David Sims?

  There's not enough Yoda and Yaddle crossover in the movies, in my, in my opinion. I mean, I'm sure and there's backstories and comics and stuff like that. But that's why it's, to me, it's so funny that somebody, George Lucas, I guess.

• 21:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 21:48David Sims?

  Was like, should we just like put a wig on a Yoda puppet and have one, another one be there, you know, in the, in the council who doesn't talk or do anything and like, sure. And then like the fans like, so what's up with Yaddle? Like, and no one's just gonna be like, I don't know, man. We put a wig on a Yoda.

• 22:03Griffin Newman?

  It's wild for there to basically be.

• 22:05David Sims?

  She has a wig on. She has like hair, like.

• 22:08Griffin Newman?

  There are, they are the only two of the same species on the council and they never interact with each other.

• 22:15David Sims?

  No, never once. She doesn't say anything. She never says anything.

• 22:18Griffin Newman?

  We don't even know what she's talking about.

• 22:19David Sims?

  In the fucked up way.

• 22:20Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 22:21David Sims?

  Like, it'd be funny. She's like, hey, guys.

• 22:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, that would die.

• 22:24Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 22:24David Sims?

  There'd be a lot of questions.

• 22:25Griffin Newman?

  In one of the Disney Plus cartoon things. Recently, they did a standalone episode on her backstory and I think she was voiced by Bryce.

• 22:32Speaker 03

  That's all bullshit.

• 22:33David Sims?

  Really?

• 22:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but the backstory, the original official backstory to Yaddle was that she was like a youngling, a padawan or whatever. And then she was like kidnapped in some battle and she was a POW and she lived in a pit. For like 150 years, she figured out how to turn the force into nourishment to survive. And then they saved her and all the other Jedis were like, I think she deserves to be made a master. And Yoda put his foot down. He was like, she doesn't have enough time in the field. And they were like, she was in a fucking pit.

• 23:07Speaker 03

  Is this real?

• 23:08Griffin Newman?

  I swear to you.

• 23:09David Sims?

  Now that's all.

• 23:10Griffin Newman?

  Now it's all wiped away, but the original idea was that Yoda was like, I don't want another one of my species coming in like, this is just for me.

• 23:17David Sims?

  In in canon, Dooku killed her. Like now in canon.

• 23:22Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 23:23Griffin Newman?

  In that cartoon.

• 23:24David Sims?

  Yeah, sexual jealousy.

• 23:25Griffin Newman?

  And also they've never named Yoda's species. Yoda, Yaddle and Grogu are all just Yoda's species.

• 23:33Speaker 03

  Oh, Grogu. I forgot about Grogu.

• 23:35David Sims?

  You forget about, he's the star of 2026 is the Mandalorian and Grogu.

• 23:39Griffin Newman?

  How did you forget about Grogu?

• 23:41David Sims?

  He's probably gonna like play ping pong with a porg or whatever. It'll be great.

• 23:44Griffin Newman?

  This is so big.

• 23:47Speaker 03

  Was it, was it Iger who was, was it Iger who was like, let me see that my billion dollar baby or whatever. Wasn't that his thing about? Yeah.

• 23:55Griffin Newman?

  I, I, I don't care if you like the Mandalorian. I'm like, whatever on the Mandalorian. I think you're too much of a sourpuss about baby Yoda.

• 24:02Speaker 03

  I think Grogu's good.

• 24:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 24:04Speaker 03

  I mean, I look, am I being a hypocrite?

• 24:06Griffin Newman?

  Remained innocent while everything else about that show has gone.

• 24:09David Sims?

  They kind of smartly never did much Grogu.

• 24:12Griffin Newman?

  They've, they've been.

• 24:13David Sims?

  Instead, the Mandalorian became all about like, do you want to learn about like Mandalorian politics? And I was just like, no. Not at all.

• 24:21Speaker 03

  I am a hypocrite that I love the idea of Yaddle and don't like Grogu.

• 24:26Griffin Newman?

  Would you like Grogu if you found out that Yaddle was Grogu's mom?

• 24:30Speaker 03

  Yes, I would love to see a young Yaddle, young Yaddle story.

• 24:36David Sims?

  A Yaddle childbirth scene?

• 24:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing a Yaddle childbirth scene.

• 24:40Griffin Newman?

  You will like Grogu, you will agree to like Grogu if Yaddle is Grogu's mom and they show the conception on.

• 24:47Speaker 03

  I need to see the conception happen. Was it another Yoda that, you know, is it?

• 24:52Griffin Newman?

  No, it's just some guy.

• 24:54Speaker 03

  It could just be, it could just be a man.

• 24:55Griffin Newman?

  Dude in a truck stop.

• 24:57David Sims?

  Has he wait, has Lucas weighed in on Grogu?

• 25:00Griffin Newman?

  There's that photo of him holding the baby on set.

• 25:02David Sims?

  Which is kinda cool.

• 25:02Griffin Newman?

  It's like, very true.

• 25:03Speaker 02

  That's fun. Yeah. I, it's, going back to what you're saying about Yaddle, it's, this was a time that the Phantom Menace comes out. This is a time before I feel like everyone knows the term world building. And so a creative decision like that is like, oh yeah, we'll just put another one like that. But, you know, another Yoda with a wig on, like you were saying, it's just like, that becomes a thing that informs decades of fan theorizing. But I guess, like, world building sometimes is as simple as just like, hey, we'll just put some shit in the background and then let people speculate.

• 25:33Speaker 03

  Can I make a deal with you guys? I like Grogu, but Babu Frick can burn in hell. How's that?

• 25:38David Sims?

  I think that's fine, actually.

• 25:39Griffin Newman?

  Really?

• 25:40David Sims?

  And I, I mean, I like Babu Frick, but like, I could lose Babu Frick. It's okay.

• 25:45Griffin Newman?

  We can lose him. I never need to see him again.

• 25:47David Sims?

  Babu Frick is from the bad movie. The movie where it's like, there's no way into defending that movie.

• 25:51Griffin Newman?

  So hard. Yeah.

• 25:52David Sims?

  He's good. He's funny.

• 25:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Do you think?

• 25:56David Sims?

  Yeah, maybe he's bad.

• 25:57Griffin Newman?

  Do you think there is like a room of like 800 writers right now, working night and day, trying to come up with, what is the Grogu version of Chicken Jockey? For the movie next year? Like everyone, you saying like, oh, he's playing ping pong. Like they're just, what is the thing we can have Grogu do that will go viral?

• 26:15Speaker 03

  That's a great, yeah.

• 26:17Speaker 02

  Oh, boy.

• 26:17Speaker 03

  Question.

• 26:18Griffin Newman?

  They must, right?

• 26:19Speaker 02

  That, that is like a deeply cynical world that you are projecting that is for sure going to happen.

• 26:24Griffin Newman?

  They're 100% saying like, what is our memeable moment? What is the thing that Grogu is gonna do physically in relation to something else? Like him eating the eggs or whatever. Yeah.

• 26:35Speaker 03

  Maybe crawling back into Yaddle's womb.

• 26:37David Sims?

  Right. You keep pushing that.

• 26:39Speaker 02

  Who made, who made the drop? Was that Ben?

• 26:42Speaker 01

  No, that was, uh, the drop king.

• 26:44Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 26:46Speaker 02

  Drop. How about that? Out of retirement.

• 26:48Speaker 03

  Hey DK, thanks for making our podcast sound like shit.

• 26:53Speaker 03

  Thanks a lot.

• 26:54David Sims?

  Yeah. Um, yes, of course. Nick and Mitch are joining us from the Doughboys podcast. If anyone doesn't know about that, I don't know. I'm sure everyone knows.

• 27:02Griffin Newman?

  But yes, a Northeast podcast mini tour conveniently create an opportunity for you guys to stop over in New York for a couple of days.

• 27:10Speaker 03

  He's, we're thrilled to be here, right?

• 27:13Speaker 02

  My God, what a treat to see this.

• 27:15Speaker 03

  I mean this sincerely. The reason that we're here is probably to do this episode more so than do our tour. I think that is probably accurate. You, Wiggs is not a big travel person.

• 27:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I'm not like it's a nightmare, but I'm, I'm happy to be here. Like I'm happy. I always love coming into the city when I, and have a reason to do so. And so we're over here for some tour dates anyway. So yeah, what, but I'm glad we could figure out some studio time.

• 27:40Griffin Newman?

  And to talk about a great New York movie.

• 27:42Speaker 02

  Wow. How about that?

• 27:43Speaker 03

  That's true. It is true.

• 27:44David Sims?

  It is true. It's a, you know, New York, art deco, New York fantasy, New York.

• 27:48Griffin Newman?

  I'm, I'm going to cite many things in this movie as being one of my favorite things of all time.

• 27:52David Sims?

  There's no way one minute of this thing filmed in New York, right?

• 27:54Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 27:54David Sims?

  It was filmed in North Carolina.

• 27:55Griffin Newman?

  Entirely in Wilmington, North Carolina.

• 27:57David Sims?

  And the big studios there.

• 27:58Griffin Newman?

  But they went so, uh, hog wild on the buildings and the miniatures for this. And they basically were reused for the next decade. So the city of this movie is repurposed and obviously built upon redesigned for both Schumacher Batmans.

• 28:13Speaker 03

  That makes so much sense.

• 28:14Griffin Newman?

  And Mr. Godzilla. There are like five other blockbusters that used this city as a starting point.

• 28:20Speaker 03

  That was like my first note, note was like, this is like Batman. Like that's exactly, yeah.

• 28:24Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 28:24Speaker 03

  That's great.

• 28:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, there's, uh,

• 28:27David Sims?

  No wonder that movie's good.

• 28:29Griffin Newman?

  That went for. Because it's built on the. Yeah, it's built on the bones of Hudsucker. Yeah. It's true. I'm serious. No, I agree with you. It is funny, though, to think about it. We've talked so much about how bizarre it is that for like six years, the takeaway from the success of Batman was people love like art deco, pastiche films. Rather than superhero movies, it was really like sort of nightmare dystopian cities, right? And that this is kind of like a throwback comedy building off of, I guess, people like this vibe. But yeah, by the time this comes out, a bunch of those other movies were already bombing. Oh, The Shadow uses these buildings as well.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  Oh, sure. That makes sense.

• 29:10Griffin Newman?

  A great movie. I just rewatched.

• 29:11Speaker 03

  And when you say pastiche, you mean an artistic work in a style that imitates that of another work artist or period, correct?

• 29:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Wiger, hey, will you hand Mitch back its phone? It's not nice to keep it from him. He's having to recite things like this just off the.

• 29:23Speaker 03

  Just off the top of my head. I know.

• 29:25Speaker 02

  I just rolled back in his head like a Mentos. Incredible.

• 29:30Griffin Newman?

  So everyone was like, when this came out, you read the reviews. And there was this early Cohen thing of like, these guys are too good, right? In a way where like a lot of the old guard critical community was like, we get it. These guys are like technically perfect and they're so clever and they've seen a lot of movies and they read a lot of books. And all their stuff is really kind of like self referential. It's really sort of like, look at what we know and we're toying off the history of narrative and film and whatever it is. And I think it reached an apex with this, which is like, they're getting studio money to build this sort of like reproduction of like, these screwball comedies they grew up loving. And, uh, and everyone's complaint was like, it is like technically incredible.

• 30:13Griffin Newman?

  The production design on this thing, the cinematography and all of it's like unbelievable. But it's like in a hermetic glass case, it has no feeling. It's all ironic. It's all distanced. Like it's all cynical. It's all passionless, which they've always pushed back against. I think this is like arguably their single most sincere movie. And in certain ways, they're most like nakedly emotional. But the other thing that I like push back on David's thinking that over.

• 30:38David Sims?

  Not sure about that, but it's more sincere than people gave it credit at the time, which is true of almost every Coen movie. I think that often there was a critical element that was kind of like, we get it with your references and you're sort of like, you know, this is so self-aware and you know, and I think that's often unfair.

• 30:54Griffin Newman?

  The thing that boggles my mind is the people who are pushing back on them the most, and I keep repeating this point, but it's a thing you always see when like young people come out the gate with big hits where a certain percentage of the community will push back and being like, let's not anoint them as masters too quickly. Like let them prove themselves before we start like elevating people too high.

• 31:16David Sims?

  Can I, can I guess who was pushing back on it? A certain New York critic, Jay Sherman.

• 31:21Griffin Newman?

  Ah, you thought it stunk? He said it stunk. But.

• 31:25David Sims?

  Sherman thought it's, he said it stinks?

• 31:27Griffin Newman?

  I don't know. This is my pushback on the pastiche thing is that people were like, oh, it's just them doing a Sturgis movie, or it's them doing a Preston, a Sturgis movie, or a Capra movie, or a Hawks movie. Like people kept saying it's a different type of movie. Speaking of films that spanned like a 30-year stretch, what I actually think they're doing in this movie is like mashing up 50 years of film. This is basically the first five decades of like movie making styles all put together, which to me is what stops it from being a pastiche, where movies like this often feel airless if it's like the good German thing, where Soderbergh's like, I'm gonna

• 32:08Griffin Newman?

  try to make it exactly as if I'm gonna get the cameras from 1941 and study Casablanca and study the framing and just redo this. And that becomes too much of a technical exercise. This movie is like, hear me out, kind of closer to Star Wars in that Lucas was sort of like, what do I take from like Westerns and Samurai films and three and legends and like combine all these things together? But because what the Coens are doing is just different decades of comedy, I think it got smushed together to people of just they're riffing on one thing, but they're actually picking and choosing from like different comedic movements in film, in my opinion.

• 32:47Speaker 02

  There's also like a commonality between this and Star Wars and the presence of Yaddle.

• 32:51Griffin Newman?

  This is true.

• 32:52David Sims?

  Yeah, Yaddle's, Yaddle's, she's one of the board members.

• 32:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 32:54David Sims?

  She's in that scene where you show, they see all the, the old white guys.

• 32:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 32:58David Sims?

  Yaddle kind of sticks out.

• 33:04Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 33:04David Sims?

  Yes.

• 33:05Griffin Newman?

  He lurks in shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula, a new full cast audio thriller starring Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, and an A-list cast, including Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, Amy Lou Wood as Lucy, David Johnson as Dr. Seward, and many more. That is an all-star cast.

• 33:26David Sims?

  Yeah, this new full cast thriller locks Mina Harker in a battle of minds with the Count. When Mina's fiance, Jonathan Harker, Louis Partridge, vanishes in Transylvania, Mina pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula's already hunting her.

• 33:45Griffin Newman?

  Joined by the enigmatic Van Helsing, Mina and a small fearless band race against time to stop this ancient terror. Using her intellect, her resolve, and a gift for drawing the unseen lines between clues, Mina may just hold the key to bring down the Count, if he hasn't already found his way inside her mind.

• 34:01David Sims?

  Featuring a haunting original score by Elon Eschery and a spatial dolby Atmos sound design, Audible's Dracula invites you to welcome literature's most shadowy figure into your home. Feel the terror of being hunted and the thrill of the hunt. Don't miss this year's best new audio thriller, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Audible's new full cast original adaptation. Written by Robin Ahern, now on Audible. Listen to the darkness. Go to audible.com/listen to Dracula.

• 34:36Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 34:36David Sims?

  Hmm?

• 34:37Griffin Newman?

  It's not cuffing season for me, it's cozy season for me. And this year, that meant finally upgrading my new mattress from Lisa.

• 34:44David Sims?

  Lisa!

• 34:46Griffin Newman?

  It's supportive, comfortable, and just what my body needs after a long day. It makes crawling into bed on a chilly fall night feel like luxury.

• 34:53David Sims?

  Yeah, I have a Lisa too. They've got a lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses tailored to how you sleep.

• 34:59Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:59David Sims?

  Each mattress is designed with specific sleep positions and feel preferences in mind. They've got eco-friendly materials.

• 35:06Griffin Newman?

  Maybe you hear eco-friendly and you go, oh, but I'm gonna sacrifice comfort.

• 35:10David Sims?

  No!

• 35:10Griffin Newman?

  Nope.

• 35:11David Sims?

  They've been awarded best hybrid and best memory foam mattresses by New York Times' Wirecutter. They're featured by West Elm as their go-to mattress partner, and they work with local nonprofits across the US to donate thousands of mattresses each year to families in need. Over 43,000 mattresses donated to date. Go to leesa.com for up to 30% off mattresses. Plus, get an extra $50 off with promo code BLANKCHECK. Exclusive for our listeners. That's L-E-E-S-A.com promo code BLANKCHECK for up to 30% off mattresses plus an extra $50 off. Let them know we sent you. And the survey after checkout, leesa.com promo code BLANKCHECK.

• 35:58Griffin Newman?

  David!

• 35:59David Sims?

  Yes?

• 35:59Griffin Newman?

  Shop.com is giving away $1 million in Shop Cash.

• 36:03David Sims?

  Wow. Shop has all the stores you love and lets you track every order in one spot.

• 36:09Griffin Newman?

  I love that. It's very convenient.

• 36:10David Sims?

  And now, 1,000 shoppers are each gonna win $1,000 in Shop Cash just in time for the holidays.

• 36:18Griffin Newman?

  You get gifts for everyone on your list, or get yourself something a little merry and bright. Find exactly what you're looking for at shop.com.

• 36:27David Sims?

  Got stocking stuffers, maybe. The sickest luxury items.

• 36:30Griffin Newman?

  Cookware, to kicks, toys to high-tech, even tinsel and tree toppers. Type in what you're looking for to instantly search every shop at once. Okay? That's shop.com. You can just go click around, find brands you love, search across all the stores, track every order in one spot. From cult favorites to the world's biggest brands, score suite deals, and checkout fast, all at shop.com. Enter to win the $1 million Shop Cash giveaway from now until November 1st. Just go to shop.com. There are so many ways to win. That's shop.com. Shopping designed around you. No purchase necessary. Restrictions apply. Official rules available at shop.com.

• 37:19Speaker 02

  Griffin, what was your way in for this movie? And at what point does it enter your, your personal top 10?

• 37:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, uh, Coen Brothers, uh, Lover. No Country For All Men, I was like obsessed with, but that was sort of, it felt like a culmination of me getting into them for years and years and years and being like, this is a masterpiece. This is their like crowning achievement. In that like stupid 2007 competition, it felt like between like, are you a No Country guy? Or there will be blood guy? I was, it was my one fucking semester in film school and I was like so defensively stumping.

• 37:52David Sims?

  The real answer is Zodiac, obviously.

• 37:54Speaker 02

  Hell, yes. Wow.

• 37:55David Sims?

  But I do, I do have No Country right up there. It's an incredible movie.

• 37:59Griffin Newman?

  I think the year after that, MoMA does a retrospective of all their movies up until that point. And I go and see This and Barton Fink in the same day, which at that point were maybe the only two I hadn't seen. And it was a chance to see them in theaters and I was like, oh, I'm gonna see the weird one that no one likes. And then after that, I'm gonna see the one that's like their most critically beloved in a way. And this screens first and truly from the first moment is one of my favorite openings in movies of just like, you have silent title, like seven title cards. And then just like, the music kicks in, the most beautiful miniature shot with like just perfect little like microfiber snow and Bill Cobb going, that's right, New York.

• 38:44David Sims?

  Wait, is the first thing the suicide or is it Tim Robbins in front of the job board? It's the suicide first.

• 38:49Griffin Newman?

  The first thing, the camera pushes through the entire city.

• 38:52David Sims?

  Well, yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 38:53Griffin Newman?

  To reveal him stepping out into the balcony. Then the clock goes backwards.

• 38:57David Sims?

  Right, right, right, right. But then I think at first it's, it's then it's Tim Robbins at the job board and then a hot sucker drops, yes.

• 39:04Griffin Newman?

  But I, I truly, I think from that moment was like, holy shit, what the fuck is that? Like felt chills and then walked out, remember texting my dad, I think this is one of my 10 favorite movies of all time. Like it was kind of an immediate love at first sight thing.

• 39:18David Sims?

  Yeah, this is a very Griffin movie. I mean, this is not surprising.

• 39:21Speaker 02

  I was gonna say.

• 39:21Griffin Newman?

  That it's riffing on are like my favorite era of movies.

• 39:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:25Griffin Newman?

  And comedies and aesthetics, like.

• 39:27David Sims?

  And you wish like every woman was like, huh.

• 39:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 39:30David Sims?

  Yeah, like you want Jennifer Jason-Leigh, like that's your kind of lady.

• 39:33Griffin Newman?

  Everything about this is like the world I want to live in.

• 39:36David Sims?

  You kind of wish everyone was like, huh.

• 39:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 39:37David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 39:40Griffin Newman?

  Wait, I'm getting really turned on, David. You're doing that. But yeah, it was like, right, a thing I had put off seeing for a while because I was like, right, that's the weird left-handed one.

• 39:49David Sims?

  I knew it also, right, as the one, you know, the Empire Magazine, so the world would be like, yeah, hood suckers, that's the weird one. It's the one no one liked.

• 39:57Speaker 03

  Going into the

• 39:58Speaker 02

  Interesting that there hasn't been like a more in recent years reclamation of this movie.

• 40:03Griffin Newman?

  I think it has happened in the last

• 40:05Speaker 02

  Happened, okay, okay.

• 40:05David Sims?

  I think it's become more accepted. It's like, yeah, they never made bad movies.

• 40:09Griffin Newman?

  The Metrograph Theater here in New York now screens it every holiday season.

• 40:14Speaker 03

  It's a good holiday movie.

• 40:15Griffin Newman?

  Within the week between Christmas and New Year's, and that feels like there is some mild canonization happening.

• 40:22Speaker 03

  I did not realize it was a Christmas New Year's movie when I was first going into it.

• 40:25Griffin Newman?

  I always put forward that it's like this and Harry Met Sally are the two best New Year's movies because there aren't a lot of good New Year's movies.

• 40:33David Sims?

  No. What are other good New Year's? Well, New Year's Day, obviously.

• 40:36Speaker 03

  Two great, right. Two great New York movies.

• 40:38Griffin Newman?

  Two great New York movies, yeah.

• 40:40Speaker 03

  Um, I

• 40:41Speaker 02

  Strange Days at New Year's

• 40:42Griffin Newman?

  Strange Days.

• 40:43David Sims?

  Strange Days for sure.

• 40:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 40:45David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah. Sometimes, any, any kind of turn of the millennium movie

• 40:48Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah, right.

• 40:50David Sims?

  A New Year's movie.

• 40:50Griffin Newman?

  Rudolph's shiny new year.

• 40:53Speaker 03

  That's, yeah, that's, I think that, yeah, that's definitely, to me, that's a New Year's movie.

• 40:56Griffin Newman?

  Little baby New Year, big ears.

• 40:59Speaker 03

  I, Griff, this does seem like such a, such a U movie in many ways. Like, I could see people walking to this movie being very confused by it back in the day.

• 41:09Griffin Newman?

  Totally.

• 41:10Speaker 03

  It feels like it could be a divisive movie and also just the fact that it is like an alternate, it feels weirdly, even still watching it feels weirdly modern, even though of course it's whatever the

• 41:19Griffin Newman?

  It is. I also, like, I think in a certain way, culture has caught up to this movie. Like, this is them combining the vibes of the 1900s through the 1950s into a movie in the 1990s that was a little prescient about like corporate culture that has only grown since then.

• 41:37Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 41:38Griffin Newman?

  It feels like this film is, in certain ways, a reaction to them trying to make sense of how to be personal artists within like a massive industry. Like, I, I think that the oddly personal aspect of this film, beyond it just being like the two of them and Sam Raimi being like, what's the kind of movie we love? What's the kind of thing that'd be so much fun to make? Is also like, the idea of trying to make something pure within this like huge lumbering machinery is like trying to convince a board to sell a hula hoop, which is like standing up and being like, you know, and like, there's sand inside.

• 42:15David Sims?

  So I'm looking at New Year's movies. The problem is a lot of them are Christmas movies and that doesn't count. To me, if you're more of a Christmas movie, you don't count, but I do think Phantom Thread gets the New Year's title.

• 42:25Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah.

• 42:26David Sims?

  It's got an iconic New Year's party.

• 42:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 42:29David Sims?

  In it that has become kind of like, I feel like people are always posting a picture of it.

• 42:33Speaker 03

  I agree with that.

• 42:33David Sims?

  Um, I don't know, man. Ghostbusters 2 is a New Year's movie.

• 42:37Speaker 03

  It is. Oh, wow. Okay. Can I say another one that doesn't, isn't technically a New Year's movie, but I do think it is a New Year's movie?

• 42:43David Sims?

  Go ahead.

• 42:44Speaker 03

  Gremlins 2. They're in the lobby and they're singing New York, New York, and they're doing a countdown. That's not really New Year's Eve, but.

• 42:51David Sims?

  But it's New Year's coded.

• 42:52Speaker 03

  It's New Year's coded.

• 42:53David Sims?

  Countdown.

• 42:54Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 42:54David Sims?

  Cause Gremlins 1 is Christmasy, right?

• 42:56Speaker 03

  Yes, yeah.

• 42:57Griffin Newman?

  Gremlins 1 is explicitly Christmas.

• 42:58David Sims?

  Right.

• 42:59Griffin Newman?

  Here's, I, I think a reason why I love this so much as a New Year's movie. It starts with Tim Robbins about to jump at 11:55, right? And Bill Cobb just being like, a week ago, this guy was the head of a company. How has he fallen so low that he's about to kill himself? And the movie comes back around to this guy like getting the girl at 12:05, right? Like, it's a movie about, for me, that feeling I always have on New Year's that is just like, the idea.

• 43:25Speaker 03

  You're on a ledge.

• 43:26Griffin Newman?

  The highest highs and the lowest lows.

• 43:27Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 43:28Griffin Newman?

  Like this forced kind of like introspection and retrospection combined with this notion of like a hope of something great happening.

• 43:36Speaker 02

  I, I'll just, just say, for me, my way into this movie was, Mitch talked about it being a blockbuster film. My parents rented this when I was a kid.

• 43:45Speaker 03

  Wow, it worked.

• 43:46Speaker 02

  And I watched this, well, no, of they, I, we, like, whoa. Yes, I guess it worked in the, the, the.

• 43:52Speaker 03

  They did rent it. I'm saying that, yeah, the cover worked.

• 43:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. No, you're you're correct. I I thought you were saying something different. The movie did not work on me as a kid because I was just baffled by it.

• 44:00Griffin Newman?

  Did your parents like it?

• 44:01Speaker 02

  My parents, I remember my parents laughing at it and me not understanding what was going on and just being like, this movie is weird. Why are they talking like this?

• 44:09Griffin Newman?

  Your parents didn't like it either?

• 44:10Speaker 02

  No, my parents did like it. They were they were there. They enjoyed the movie, uh, but like, I revisited this movie in adulthood and was like, oh, wait, I actually really like this. And I've watched it a few times since. And again, I I've mentioned my my wife really loves this movie. So like, but but i- it is kind of a it's unmooring as a viewer. Like, if you don't know what you're getting into, you're kind, you're unsettled. And that sounds like that's what your viewing was, Mitch.

• 44:35Speaker 03

  For a a little bit. I mean, like, I was I was shocked at what I was watching. I had, I just had, I knew nothing about it and I did not, I hadn't, I had no idea what it was about at all. So it was, it was a lot to take in. Also, do you think your parents, uh, will regret showing you that movie when you jump out of the podcast building in like 10 years or whatever, when you pull a hood sucker? When we're in Headgum Dubai or where the hell we are?

• 45:01David Sims?

  Getting like blood, the some, there's some like withered husk of a, you know, headgum hunk and you're like getting this blood put into you.

• 45:09Griffin Newman?

  Do you remember when you saw it for the first time?

• 45:10David Sims?

  Yeah, college, 100%. It was college.

• 45:13Griffin Newman?

  DVD?

• 45:13David Sims?

  Yes, well, there was a little service called Love Film. I brought, I've had, I've brought this up before, but it was the the Brit Britons Netflix before Netflix bought it and

• 45:20Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 45:21David Sims?

  consumed it.

• 45:22Griffin Newman?

  But it was the original UK.

• 45:24David Sims?

  The old disc, you get the discs in the mail. And, uh, I was already obsessed with the Coens, uh, and so I was filling in my gaps. I I 100% remember like, and just, uh, love at first sight, watching it on my little 10 inch TV by my bed. A lot, I watched a lot of great movies there.

• 45:41Griffin Newman?

  I mean, I had the miraculous thing of getting to see it projected on film for the first time, and then I bought it on DVD and was like obsessively showing it to people. And I had to keep being like, you can't imagine how good this looks. Like, as good as it looks on a 10 inch screen. It's one of those movies where you're like, the effects actually hold up the better resolution you see it in versus a lot of movies of this era where you're like, it actually benefits from watching in lower res.

• 46:06Speaker 03

  Do you think this is the most, uh, I, I, I wrote this down and I, and I'm asking you guys because you're experts. Is this the most like kind of Lynchian Coen Brothers movie or Terry Gilliam? Kind of a

• 46:18Griffin Newman?

  There's definitely some Gilliam in there. Yeah. It's interesting. The Lynch thing, I mean, I, I feel like Lynch and, uh, the Coens are both similarly obsessed with like, um, old eras of speaking, right? Like the, the time specific, era specific dialects. And that part of it, I think evokes something like Lynch movies will have one character show up and talk like this.

• 46:46Speaker 03

  Yeah. And, and also, I mean, the, the bellboy at time, like the elevator boy seems like kind of like a nightmare sequency at some point.

• 46:54David Sims?

  You know what? Barton Fink is very

• 46:56Speaker 03

  Same, yeah. Barton Fink seems so much to me though, felt when I was watching this, I was like Barton Fink seems so much more in the real world than this feels.

• 47:05David Sims?

  Sure. Which is true. It is. You're right. It's actually more about like reality than, than this is.

• 47:10Speaker 02

  But that's, no, I, I, I mean, like if we're looking for, no, no, I was just gonna say, if we're gonna look for a director to, as a point of comparison, I, to me, and maybe it's just, it's just because a Batman is right there, but I just, it feels like a Tim Burton film in a lot of ways, especially like, like it's just such a broad arch morality play and then just with some light fantastical elements that also exists in a time and place that's both specific but non-specific that doesn't actually exist.

• 47:33Griffin Newman?

  Well, it's what I love about the opening beyond it being such a beautiful shot and the score being so great and whatever, but the opening line of the movie being that's right, which I just find so funny as a joke to start a movie with a response to a thing that wasn't like asked. And then just saying like, that's right, New York City, which is basically the movie pointing and being like, you need to accept that this is New York City. This does not look like reality.

• 47:55David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 47:56Griffin Newman?

  We're in like fantasia, everything about this movie.

• 47:58Speaker 03

  I'm never gonna see the sun in a weird sort of way.

• 48:00Griffin Newman?

  There's no like baseline normalcy that this movie's gonna veer off from. We're starting in like a fairy tale picture book world.

• 48:09David Sims?

  Uh, elevator board, of course, Jim Tru Frost. Everyone know Jim Tru Frost, or am I the only Wire fan here?

• 48:15Speaker 03

  Oh, he's in The Wire.

• 48:16David Sims?

  He's prez.

• 48:17Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 48:18Griffin Newman?

  Oh, wait, the teacher.

• 48:19Speaker 03

  That's wild.

• 48:20Griffin Newman?

  He's also buzzed, and he's got the fuzz, and he makes the elevator do what she does.

• 48:23David Sims?

  That's right.

• 48:23Speaker 03

  That's wow.

• 48:24David Sims?

  It's funny because him on The Wire, I know you haven't watched The Wire, Griff, right?

• 48:28Griffin Newman?

  I've not, I've been too busy, uh, watching, uh, Greg the Bunny.

• 48:31David Sims?

  Yeah, right. Uh, on The Wire, he plays like a kind of a soft spoken, squarely cop who's bad at his job. Like, he does not play a guy who's like, hey, man, boss, how you doing? Like, it's like, it's funny to see him doing that.

• 48:43Speaker 03

  I knew, I knew him, and I-

• 48:44Griffin Newman?

  Like, uh, overly drawn out, and like, kinda sluggish on The Wire.

• 48:48David Sims?

  Yeah, he's really good.

• 48:49Griffin Newman?

  He's great on that, yeah.

• 48:50Speaker 03

  Season four of The Wire is, is the Greg the Bunny perspective, Griff, so it's a good crossover if you wanna watch.

• 48:57Griffin Newman?

  I, when, um, when Sean Baker won all the Oscars for Enora, I was like, I should go back and watch Greg the Bunny, cuz it's so incongruous that he created Greg the Bunny. And it's so funny to think back to, like, that's where he was 20 years ago, and now he's like the king of indie cinema. And then I rewatched the full season of Greg the Bunny and realized, oh, he had nothing to do with the Fox show. He and the other guy created for cable access, and then that guy developed it for Fox. And I was like, well, I just watched 13 episodes of Greg the Bunny for no reason.

• 49:28David Sims?

  You're just hanging out with it.

• 49:29Griffin Newman?

  It's okay.

• 49:31Speaker 03

  I think everyone said that when they watched Greg the Bunny, so you're not alone.

• 49:34David Sims?

  Steven Levitan did it for Fox.

• 49:37Griffin Newman?

  Well, he was the old hand they brought in-

• 49:39David Sims?

  Right.

• 49:39Griffin Newman?

  With Dan Milano, who was the co-creator-

• 49:43David Sims?

  Right.

• 49:43Griffin Newman?

  And the puppeteer, and then Dan Milano becomes a robot chicken guy.

• 49:47Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 49:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I, I just completed the entire Greg Bunny family tree. I made sense of how it came into existence. Thank you. John Harkness, film critic, uh, writing for Sight and Sound, um, in 1994, when this film came out.

• 50:03Griffin Newman?

  Reviewed this movie in a real like, I'm gonna reveal that the emperor has no clothes. These guys are like all flash and no substance. Uh, his headline was the Sphinx without a riddle. Sure. Um, but they described the movie. Really weird burn. Yes. He describes the movie as Norville Barnes is a Preston Sturgis hero trapped in a Frank Capra story and never the twain shall meet, especially not in a world that seems to have been created by Fritz Lang. Right. You're, and you're, it's getting at your mashup idea. Right. That he's like, it's two different styles of like, kind of, uh, Hollywood drama D and Hollywood pure like screwball comedy.

• 50:43Griffin Newman?

  Uh, in a sort of dystopian, almost German expressionist relic of an idea of city building and world building, right? And then he also says, obviously the Jennifer Jason Lee character is like a Howard Hawks character. And his whole read is that the movie's mashup is fundamentally wrong because you can't put a Sturgis character in a crap. Right. You can't just take all these things and put them together. I, I get that. Also like they're, they're incompatible, um, worldviews. But I think he misidentified, I think this movie, not to get too eggheady, is Capra character in a Sturgis world. His argument is the character's too cynical in a world that's too pure. Yeah, no. And it's the other way around. He's a sweetie pie. Right.

• 51:22Speaker 03

  My first, my first word of advice to this guy is chill out nerd.

• 51:25Griffin Newman?

  Agreed.

• 51:26Speaker 03

  You gotta chill out. Is he still alive? I don't even.

• 51:28Griffin Newman?

  Unfortunately, he's passed away.

• 51:29Speaker 03

  He's passed away. Alright, well chill out, rest in peace and chill out. Uh, I, there's, you're, like, even, no matter what, even if you have like some of these complaints or something like, there's no denying that this movie looks beautiful and is like, it's funny. There, there was stuff when I was watching it, when I first saw Jennifer Jason Lee doing her thing and I was like, this is a really big performance. And as the movie went on, I was like, this is great. The thing, it's what, this is what the world is. I'm accepting it for what it is.

• 51:58Griffin Newman?

  Reviews at the time and people really singled her out as like, Sure. bombs the whole thing.

• 52:03Speaker 03

  Oh, that's not fair.

• 52:04Griffin Newman?

  They let her do this voice and they're like, she came in for the audition and had the voice and we were like, yeah, of course. Yeah. Why wouldn't she do that voice? This character wouldn't make sense if she doesn't talk like that. Be dumb if she didn't talk. Exactly. Thank God she like prepped this.

• 52:16Speaker 03

  Yes. It is big. I mean, I, it, it, when I first, as when I was first seeing it, I was like, this is, this is big. And it, but everything is big. Exactly.

• 52:23Speaker 02

  It's, it's a, I don't know. It's a, it's a pretty astonishing performance.

• 52:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. On a technical level, it is insane. Who's your fave?

• 52:30David Sims?

  Who's everyone's fave?

• 52:31Speaker 03

  Well, that, that, my, my-

• 52:32David Sims?

  It's a stack cast.

• 52:33Speaker 03

  Yeah. My whole thought about it was, so when I first saw it and she was being really big and then when it comes around and she like humanizes a character and, and you know, like, uh, what's his name? Who's the Robins, who's a hayseed is kind of like, you put on this attitude and then at the end, you kind of see it breaking, but she's still remaining the same character. You're like, that is a good performance. There's no denying that.

• 52:53Griffin Newman?

  I think she is the best performance in the movie.

• 52:55David Sims?

  She is certainly my nominee. Yes.

• 52:57Griffin Newman?

  That's your one nomination?

• 52:58David Sims?

  Yes.

• 52:59Griffin Newman?

  I think I'm supporting her lead.

• 53:00David Sims?

  Supporting.

• 53:01Speaker 03

  Can I tell you who I think is number one? I think Yaddle is probably the best.

• 53:04David Sims?

  He is good. I mean, she's, this is a hotness conversation, obviously now.

• 53:09Griffin Newman?

  There is, uh-

• 53:10David Sims?

  Number one.

• 53:11Griffin Newman?

  James Urbania.

• 53:12David Sims?

  Bill Cobb's number two.

• 53:14Griffin Newman?

  Friend of the show, uh, past and future guest.

• 53:16David Sims?

  James Urbania, the great James Urbania. Who is, who is capable of going, huh?

• 53:21Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say, this is a shared favorite movie of ours and every time we hang out, we just like talk about this movie again, cause we've always-

• 53:28Speaker 03

  He'd be, he could be, he could plot, you could plop him right into this movie. He'd be great.

• 53:31Griffin Newman?

  Would fit perfectly.

• 53:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:33Griffin Newman?

  And he, uh, always points out, it's one of his, he says it's one of his favorite moments of like performance he's ever seen. There was the scene where Tim Robbins is explaining what he imagines, uh, Amy Archer looks like, right? When he's like talking trash about her-

• 53:50Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 53:50Griffin Newman?

  After she's published the slam piece and he's like, she's probably one of those women who's gotten infected with the cultural idea that she doesn't need a man or whatever it is. And she starts to get flustered, like it's clearly kind of getting to her where she wants him to be attracted to her, even if it's only a version of her that he doesn't know, whatever, right? And she has this moment where she says like, well, maybe she's one of those women who cares more about her work than her exterior appearance, but with her hands, while she's saying work, she gestures to her hair and makeup. And when she says personal appearance, she mimes writing a piece.

• 54:24Speaker 03

  Right, yes, yeah.

• 54:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, like writing down and like on a typewriter. And it's such a funny inversion.

• 54:31David Sims?

  It's great.

• 54:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, she's, she's great in this. My, I mean, my other secret favorite in this is Charles Durning, who I think is unbelievable.

• 54:37David Sims?

  He's so funny in that, you know, in the outfit too. I love his little halo.

• 54:42Griffin Newman?

  All of it, but like when we, in the straight story episode, you were saying, is there an argument to be made for, uh, Harry Dean Stanton getting an Oscar nomination for saying one line 30 seconds at the end of the film because of how well he does it? The first time I saw this movie, when I didn't think Charles Durning was coming back, he's third billed in the opening credits and then immediately jumps out a window. I was like, he earned that billing just for the silent contemplation of the suicide.

• 55:08David Sims?

  My favorite is so good. He kinda goes into like Usain Bolt, like into his stance where he's about to, you know, go.

• 55:14Griffin Newman?

  He nails the comeback, but.

• 55:16David Sims?

  He maybe, he maybe is my favorite.

• 55:18Griffin Newman?

  The amount he kills.

• 55:19David Sims?

  A hilarious looking person.

• 55:20Griffin Newman?

  He is one of my.

• 55:21David Sims?

  I am not trying to body shame Charles Durning, but God bless that body of his.

• 55:25Griffin Newman?

  Well, so he has this like great dance background.

• 55:28David Sims?

  Right.

• 55:29Griffin Newman?

  Uh, we talked about a recent episode that I shamefully have never seen, Bessel O'Horehouse in Texas, but watch his number all the time. But he's got dance training and you see in like the way.

• 55:39David Sims?

  And also he like, to be clear, fought on Omaha Beach. Like, and I'm like, yeah, funny body old there, Durning. Like, he's like a war hero.

• 55:47Griffin Newman?

  Frontlines of D-Day. There's an incredible YouTube video of Tom Hanks introducing him at a D-Day anniversary event.

• 55:53David Sims?

  He fought on Omaha Beach in, in World War II? Okay. I didn't know if it was another. I've, I've been to, I've also. Fighting a person, fighting some guy. Not during war. It'd be funny if I was like, I was on Omaha Beach, like, you know, get some rage.

• 56:07Griffin Newman?

  What's the, isn't there some movie where there's a joke? Oh no, it's the SNL goodbye Saigon sketch? Where Will Ferrell keeps having the Vietnam flashbacks and, and one of the other characters like, he served and they were like, no, he just went to Vietnam on vacation. Like, did anything bad happen? I think he lost his luggage.

• 56:26Speaker 03

  Um, I have, I have a boring.

• 56:28Griffin Newman?

  Like a true war hero. Yeah.

• 56:29Speaker 03

  He, he's one of my favorites, but I do have a boring answer. My favorite lemonade maker.

• 56:35David Sims?

  Yeah. Mr. Newman.

• 56:36Speaker 03

  He's just so good.

• 56:37David Sims?

  It's a joy to see a great like that, a Titan.

• 56:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:41David Sims?

  Like be a silly guy.

• 56:42Speaker 02

  Well, and just also agree to do this.

• 56:44David Sims?

  Right. Exactly.

• 56:45Speaker 02

  Kind of amazing.

• 56:46Griffin Newman?

  And this is that era where like.

• 56:48David Sims?

  And he's hot, by the way.

• 56:50Speaker 02

  Well, oh my God, he takes his shirt off.

• 56:52David Sims?

  Shirt off.

• 56:53Speaker 02

  A shirt off for the fucking massage. It's insane.

• 56:55Griffin Newman?

  It's insane how handsome that guy was up until his dying day and probably still looks pretty fucking.

• 57:00David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 57:00Griffin Newman?

  Is he in his seventies here?

• 57:02Speaker 03

  Let's dig him up. Uh, we gotta dig him up. We gotta see how he looks.

• 57:04Griffin Newman?

  Been.

• 57:05David Sims?

  Uh, he was born in nineteen twenty five, so he would have been like about seventy, like about hitting seventy soon.

• 57:10Speaker 02

  He, he like, he's getting the massage shirtless and then he stands up and just, you know.

• 57:16Speaker 03

  Got the towel around him or whatever.

• 57:17Speaker 02

  My torso has never looked that good in my life.

• 57:20David Sims?

  Nick.

• 57:20Speaker 02

  Looks fucking incredible.

• 57:22Speaker 03

  Come on, you, you look good.

• 57:24Speaker 02

  That's nice of you to say, Mitch, but I'm gonna look like fucking Paul Newman.

• 57:27David Sims?

  Nick is looking good. By the way, I, I've been in the room with Nick before, but never for the podcast, but Nick's looking good.

• 57:32Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 57:33David Sims?

  Nick.

• 57:33Griffin Newman?

  By the way, you know what's looking good? Mitch is looking good.

• 57:36David Sims?

  Well, I already told Mitch he's looking good.

• 57:38Griffin Newman?

  But I gotta say on Mike that Mitch is looking pretty good.

• 57:40Speaker 03

  It's too kind, but look, Nick, I think it's only fair.

• 57:43Griffin Newman?

  By the way, quickly, anything you want to say about David, man?

• 57:45Speaker 03

  David Griff, you guys are looking good. In fact, I, I will put it in terms I think you like more. Mwah.

• 57:53Speaker 03

  Wags, uh, I think you should take your shirt off. I think we should see how.

• 57:58Griffin Newman?

  This isn't a video podcast.

• 57:59David Sims?

  See if you've got seventy something Newman energy.

• 58:02Griffin Newman?

  People will just have to take us out of the world.

• 58:05Speaker 03

  No, Newman is a, he's a ba, he is a babe.

• 58:08David Sims?

  It's that era of Newman where I feel like in the eighties, if what, like, you know, he, he gets all serious. I mean, he was always a very serious actor, right? But he's playing like these really, and then in the nineties, it's like, what if I'm like a rascal? You know, like nobody's fool, right? These movies where it's like, everyone loves old blue eyed Newman, right? Like so like.

• 58:27Griffin Newman?

  That's this run of like him playing a grump or like the verdict where it's like a guy who's kind of lost his way.

• 58:33David Sims?

  Fucked up in the verdict and then color of money. It's sort of like, you know.

• 58:37Griffin Newman?

  He's hot. Like, let's just like still admit that he's like a hottie. But this is him playing like an absolute cartoon villain. It is so funny to see him not be an anti-hero, not be a guy who's like sort of at odds with himself, but just like a cartoonishly evil person. And they talk about that they were just like, don't try to find any depth in this. Right. This is the same year as Nobody's Fool, actually. Wow. It's a good movie. Play it real, but like, do not try to humanize this guy. Don't try to find a core of what animates him. He is an evil businessman who likes being evil and smoking cigars. He's great. He's so good. He's so good. I, he's, he is probably my MVP. And I, I do hope that Blank Check can get a nod from the Newman Estate to dig him up. So we can see how he looks now. I think we should dig him up. He probably looks good.

• 59:22Griffin Newman?

  Wait, can we get like a sub-license from them to label this a Newman's Own podcast? Fuck, guys.

• 59:29David Sims?

  He was cremated.

• 59:30Griffin Newman?

  Fuck.

• 59:31David Sims?

  Disaster.

• 59:32Griffin Newman?

  Oh, here's a real question. I bet those ashes look pretty good.

• 59:35David Sims?

  Dig him up.

• 59:35Griffin Newman?

  Did they, did they donate his eyes to science? I don't think so. I'm sorry. They burned the eyes? Jerry Orbach, you know, is the famous eye donator. Yeah. Um, do you guys know this, that Jerry Orbach donated his eyes and for years in New York City, there'd be subway ads promoting? A New York, a true New York legend, to be clear, Jerry Orbach, one of the great New Yorkers. But they would just have these big ads that were like Jerry Orbach's headshot and it would say like, he gave his eyes to science. That's wild. I think my eyes are a little too tiny for science. I don't know if they were. I've got very tiny eyes. Uh, so maybe they would like to study them, Mike. I don't know.

• 1:00:10David Sims?

  Yeah, maybe.

• 1:00:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:11David Sims?

  Um, worth preserving.

• 1:00:12Griffin Newman?

  Newman only did.

• 1:00:13David Sims?

  Seen some things.

• 1:00:15Griffin Newman?

  Excluding Cars, he only did four films after this year. So after this, uh, Nobody's Fool is the same year? Same year. And he gets an Oscar nomination for Nobody's Fool. You're counting that as one of the four? Yeah. So I'm saying after. Then it's where the money is. He did do that. Road to Perdition. Yeah, that was his final film role on, on screen. Cars is his. Amazing. Right. Last, uh, theatrical release. He's the voice of a fucking car in Cars. He's really good in it. Excuse me. He's the voice of the car. He's a judge. Show him some respect. He is a judge. Yeah. But he's also, he used to win like the old cup, right? Cars could say multitudes. What do you mean? You can't limit him to one profession.

• 1:00:54David Sims?

  He was eighty-three years old.

• 1:00:56Griffin Newman?

  Uh, the fourth movie he made was Message in a Bottle, right?

• 1:01:00David Sims?

  Well, you've only named three of the live actions. Uh, Message in a Bottle, indeed, which he's-

• 1:01:03Griffin Newman?

  Message in a Bottle, Nobody's Fool, Where the Money Is.

• 1:01:06David Sims?

  No, no, I'm not counting Nobody's Fool.

• 1:01:08Griffin Newman?

  Okay, so then Where the Money Is.

• 1:01:10David Sims?

  Message in a Bottle, Roger's Perdition, and you're forgetting, uh, Twilight.

• 1:01:13Griffin Newman?

  Oh.

• 1:01:14David Sims?

  Sexy thriller Twilight.

• 1:01:15Griffin Newman?

  I always think Twilight was earlier.

• 1:01:17David Sims?

  Yeah, it's Hackman and Newman.

• 1:01:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:19David Sims?

  And sexy together. Two sexy seventy-somethings.

• 1:01:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:23David Sims?

  Probably a lot of like burly chests in that movie.

• 1:01:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:25David Sims?

  You know, and like wiry chest. I've never seen Twilight.

• 1:01:28Griffin Newman?

  I've never seen Twilight. I've seen, uh, one scene from Twilight many times.

• 1:01:32David Sims?

  There is a famous nude scene in Twilight. She-

• 1:01:35Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:01:36Griffin Newman?

  Paul Newman shows sack.

• 1:01:39Griffin Newman?

  Uh, no, it's Reese, Reese Witherspoon has one scene I've studied extensively.

• 1:01:46David Sims?

  Never seen Twilight. Also, Robert-

• 1:01:48Griffin Newman?

  Paul Newman shows off the twins.

• 1:01:49David Sims?

  Benton did Nobody's Fool with him and he did Twilight with him.

• 1:01:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. There's a story, uh, cause Leah Schreiber's in that, uh, that one scene I've seen many times. And he has a story about Paul Newman, uh, Joanne Woodward visiting him on set and walking away when they were getting ready to take, do a take. And he just looks at her and then looks back to Leah Schreiber and he goes, what an ass on her.

• 1:02:11David Sims?

  On, on, on, Joanne Newman?

• 1:02:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:14David Sims?

  Uh, Joanne Woodward?

• 1:02:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. And Schreiber was like, this is like rules that this guy's still so fucking horny for his wife.

• 1:02:21David Sims?

  His wife and he's like, come on, Leah, if you want to take a piece of that.

• 1:02:23Griffin Newman?

  Respectfully, as if he was looking at the Mona Lisa, look at that ass.

• 1:02:28David Sims?

  He should have won an Oscar for saying that.

• 1:02:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:30David Sims?

  Just for, for that line off, yeah, he's the best.

• 1:02:33Griffin Newman?

  Uh, our, our buddies-

• 1:02:34Speaker 02

  Now my wife's gonna be like, you never say anything about that, like that for, about, about me.

• 1:02:38David Sims?

  Why aren't you talking about me to Leah Schreiber?

• 1:02:41Speaker 02

  Just describing my ass to other men.

• 1:02:43Griffin Newman?

  Your impression of your wife.

• 1:02:45David Sims?

  She's a southern? I didn't realize your wife like owned a store in Mississippi.

• 1:02:51Griffin Newman?

  Um, the, the, our, our buddies, the big picture just did, uh, at the time of recording this very recently, did a Paul Newman.

• 1:02:57David Sims?

  They did.

• 1:02:58Griffin Newman?

  For his.

• 1:02:58David Sims?

  Anniversary.

• 1:02:59Griffin Newman?

  Centennial.

• 1:03:00David Sims?

  Yes, right.

• 1:03:01Griffin Newman?

  Uh, and they talked about the fact that he was an alcoholic until his like sixties.

• 1:03:05David Sims?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:03:05Griffin Newman?

  That he was like a case of beer or six martinis a night guy.

• 1:03:08David Sims?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:03:09Griffin Newman?

  And they, that's what they're saying.

• 1:03:10David Sims?

  Slim fella.

• 1:03:11Griffin Newman?

  They're like, for a guy who drank that much for that many decades, there is no period of time in which he looked bad. Not only is there never like a run where you're like, oh, yeah, they're like three years where he's really bloated, but it didn't even catch up to him when he was old.

• 1:03:24David Sims?

  Some people just have that, they can just do it. They, they, they can just do that every night and it doesn't affect him. I don't know how they.

• 1:03:29Griffin Newman?

  He might've been the most beautiful man in the history of movies.

• 1:03:32David Sims?

  He's, he's.

• 1:03:33Speaker 03

  He's up there.

• 1:03:34David Sims?

  Yes, he's the best looking movie star of all time.

• 1:03:36Griffin Newman?

  I really think so.

• 1:03:37David Sims?

  I think doing his filmography is a really great way to experience like how Hollywood changed.

• 1:03:42Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:03:43David Sims?

  For, you know, for, over the course of like four decades. And it's not like he made the best movies of all time, although he made a lot of really good ones. But, uh, it's there, it is very, very fun to watch a Paul Newman movie. Like just pick one, like you'll have a good time.

• 1:03:56Griffin Newman?

  Paul Newman is kind of a Forrest Gump figure that you can track the progression of American movies from the 1950s to the 2000s through. Like it all kind of happens, either he's in reaction, response, ahead of the curve, pushing things.

• 1:04:11David Sims?

  Talking about cars.

• 1:04:11Griffin Newman?

  Direction. Yeah. Well, he was miles ahead in that movie.

• 1:04:14David Sims?

  He was.

• 1:04:15Griffin Newman?

  Um, but.

• 1:04:16David Sims?

  Y'all seen Cars?

• 1:04:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, I've seen Cars.

• 1:04:18David Sims?

  You seen Cars, Mitch?

• 1:04:19Speaker 03

  Is this the animated Pixar movie?

• 1:04:20David Sims?

  Cars, Pixar's Cars.

• 1:04:21Speaker 03

  Pixar's Cars.

• 1:04:22David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, that's real.

• 1:04:24Speaker 03

  Are they gonna do a Disney live action recreate?

• 1:04:27Griffin Newman?

  They should.

• 1:04:28David Sims?

  Oh, that would be so good.

• 1:04:29Griffin Newman?

  And they shouldn't talk.

• 1:04:30Speaker 03

  It's, it feels like the only one that they should do a live action version.

• 1:04:34David Sims?

  Just get some cars.

• 1:04:35Speaker 03

  Get cars.

• 1:04:36David Sims?

  Slap some eyes on them.

• 1:04:37Griffin Newman?

  Well, no, you know how like when they, they'll show like, oh, here's the live action cast of The Little Mermaid. And you're like, ah, they made like Sebastian look like a real crab.

• 1:04:44David Sims?

  Right, which they.

• 1:04:44Griffin Newman?

  Founder look like a real fish. They should literally just get real cars, not put eyes and mouths on them.

• 1:04:49Speaker 03

  I love that.

• 1:04:50Griffin Newman?

  Drive them around.

• 1:04:51Speaker 03

  Except for Mater. He is, he's Larry the Cable Guy painted.

• 1:04:54David Sims?

  Right, just. Face painted and mounted. Just.

• 1:05:01Griffin Newman?

  Paul Newman is one of these guys who like really his career kind of charts the death of the traditional studio system, right? And like new Hollywood where he's like thought of as sort of part of this younger group of movie stars that he actually predated, but he didn't really come into his own until the old system was breaking down and he was kind of the countercultural old guy. And even to the like degree that he like embraced going gray earlier and sort of became this like aspirational figure for a countercultural movement who was a little bit ahead of them. And this feels like him making a movie of everything that movies were right before he really figured out his career in a way

• 1:05:44Griffin Newman?

  where you're like, he was 10 years too young to have played like the Tim Robbins character in a movie like this. And now he has come all the way back around to playing the old grumpy guy?

• 1:05:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. And the thing referencing those kinds of movies. That's really interesting. I, I'd never thought about it in those terms, but it's like, it's fascinating that a guy whose name is Paul Newman to our generation was always thought of as an old man.

• 1:06:09Speaker 03

  An old man. Nick, that's a great thought.

• 1:06:11Griffin Newman?

  Nick, that is so smart and interesting.

• 1:06:19Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:06:19David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:19Griffin Newman?

  This episode is brought to you by XYZ Films and the acclaimed new documentary Capturing Bigfoot. On October 20th, 1967, Roger Patterson captured 59 seconds of film showing a creature walking through the Northern California woods. I wonder if you can log that on Letterboxd?

• 1:06:36David Sims?

  It is an iconic video.

• 1:06:38Griffin Newman?

  Footage that became the most analyzed and debated in history. 59 years later, a reel of 16 millimeter film discovered in a safe changes everything. Capturing Bigfoot reveals the untold story behind the world's greatest mystery told for the first time by Patterson's own son and the people who were there. This is a story about family legacy, broken friendships, and how far people will go to protect a secret.

• 1:07:00David Sims?

  Of course, you got the classic, what they call Patterson Gimlin film. Everyone knows of Bigfoot out in the woods, like the famous Bigfoot picture. This has other stuff shot by him that no one One's ever seen. That's what makes this movie different.

• 1:07:12Griffin Newman?

  But we're also talking brand new 4K scans of the original film taken from the Patterson family archives that some historians have called the best rendering of the footage ever seen.

• 1:07:21David Sims?

  I feel like we've all seen that footage as like grainy.

• 1:07:24Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:07:24David Sims?

  You know, that you see, you know, whatever. You see it in a documentary for two seconds, but this is restoring it and making it look much more clear.

• 1:07:31Griffin Newman?

  There's also a companion podcast, the Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, which goes deeper into the legend and lore of Bigfoot and the Patterson Gimlin film, featuring weekly episodes with experts in cryptozoology, urban legends, and filmmaking.

• 1:07:45David Sims?

  I'm something of an expert in cryptozoology.

• 1:07:47Griffin Newman?

  Well, of course. Yes, but that's more of a hobby.

• 1:07:50David Sims?

  Yeah, this podcast, Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, is hosted by the director of the film, Mark Evans, and it's available for free on YouTube and Spotify with exclusive episodes and content available on Patreon to members of the Capturing Bigfoot Society.

• 1:08:05Griffin Newman?

  Capturing Bigfoot is now available to rent or own on Amazon Prime Video. Learn more about Capturing Bigfoot at capturingbigfoot.com.

• 1:08:22Speaker 06

  Welcome to 215 Maple Drive. We just put this property on the market. Love the crown molding. Oh, wait until you see the walk-in closets and the bathroom tile. Does it have Verizon FiOS? You know, 100% fiber internet. No FiOS, but it looks like it's got cable. Let's check out the kitchen. No FiOS? Yeah, no, thank you. Don't you want to see the rest? Okay, bye-bye.

• 1:08:47Speaker 03

  Get Verizon FiOS because when you're moving, it's 100% or nothing.

• 1:08:55David Sims?

  You guys are the Doughboys.

• 1:08:58David Sims?

  I do feel like he is the gold standard for lemonade. For like supermarket lemonade.

• 1:09:04Speaker 03

  You are not, I mean, my introduction to Newman is Newman's Own Lemonade, probably.

• 1:09:10Griffin Newman?

  Was his, was it, did it not begin with the dressing though?

• 1:09:13David Sims?

  It began with salad.

• 1:09:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, that was the, the empire was built on salad dressing.

• 1:09:17David Sims?

  Guy was like, you gotta buy all this stuff, Paul. Like, I mean, I don't know how good this.

• 1:09:20Griffin Newman?

  Personal recipe.

• 1:09:21David Sims?

  He was probably trying to like, get a threesome going with him and Joey. He was like, I mean, this salad dressing is great. Can I stay the night? Like, but, uh, cause I don't know who it was, but I, no, no, what he would do is he would, he would give people salad dressing.

• 1:09:33Griffin Newman?

  It was his version of the Tom.

• 1:09:34David Sims?

  He'd be like, I'm coming to your house.

• 1:09:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, sure. Except he actually made it. Right. He had a good recipe.

• 1:09:39David Sims?

  But right, like, did he then go like, maybe we should, I don't know, lemons, sugar. What do you guys think?

• 1:09:44Griffin Newman?

  He was already doing like Hole in the Wall gang. Like he was one of the most like philanthropic movie stars even before that point.

• 1:09:50David Sims?

  The charity stuff is great. I'm just saying like, the lemonade is actually good.

• 1:09:53Speaker 03

  The lemonade is good. The Newman's, the Newman products are.

• 1:09:56David Sims?

  They're generally pretty good.

• 1:09:58Speaker 03

  His frozen pizza is good.

• 1:09:59Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say.

• 1:09:59David Sims?

  I love his frozen pizza.

• 1:10:01Speaker 03

  His frozen pizza is great.

• 1:10:01Griffin Newman?

  When you guys had us on to do a Tombstone Pizza episode during the lockdown.

• 1:10:05David Sims?

  That's right.

• 1:10:05Griffin Newman?

  We're talking different frozen pizza brands. I said that for my money is the best frozen pizza on the, on the market and I stand by it.

• 1:10:11Speaker 03

  It's way up there. It's really, really, really great.

• 1:10:13David Sims?

  Four cheese.

• 1:10:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. And the, and the cured pepperoni. My man.

• 1:10:17David Sims?

  I don't know if I've had that one.

• 1:10:18Griffin Newman?

  You gotta.

• 1:10:19Speaker 02

  We could do an, we could do an episode on Newman's Own. I've, we've never tackled.

• 1:10:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, I guess.

• 1:10:23David Sims?

  It's a big universe. You need to eat a lot of salad though, cause I feel like they got like a ton of bottles.

• 1:10:28Speaker 02

  Got a lot of dressing.

• 1:10:28Speaker 03

  I'm out.

• 1:10:29David Sims?

  Unless you just chug that.

• 1:10:31Speaker 03

  All right. Now you're getting me back in. I'll chug, I'll chug, I'll chug the dressing.

• 1:10:36Griffin Newman?

  But that is like a company that now four decades in is still all pre, post-tax revenue goes to charity.

• 1:10:44David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:44Speaker 03

  Pretty great.

• 1:10:44Griffin Newman?

  All of it.

• 1:10:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:45Speaker 02

  Kind of amazing.

• 1:10:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's great.

• 1:10:47David Sims?

  Good for him.

• 1:10:48Speaker 02

  And Rand Reynolds has the same setup for Mint Mobile, right?

• 1:10:50David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah. All of that goes.

• 1:10:51Speaker 02

  Oh, that's great. Good for him.

• 1:10:52Speaker 03

  Do you know, you know what Ivan, you know what?

• 1:10:53David Sims?

  Charity is suing Justin Baldoni, right? That's what he. Big charity.

• 1:10:59Speaker 03

  Do you know, you know a brand I love too? I don't know if you guys have this, uh, Yaddle Zone?

• 1:11:04Speaker 03

  Have you guys had Yaddle Zone?

• 1:11:07Speaker 02

  Did you hear, I, this is crazy because I heard on set, there was a, Kiyori Mundy has told the story.

• 1:11:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:13Speaker 02

  Of that there was a moment where, uh, where Yoda turned to him while Yato was walking away and said, ass on her checkout.

• 1:11:20Speaker 03

  I heard that. I heard that. Wiger, Wiger did that as the crucified guy again. He put his arms out like the crucified guy.

• 1:11:29Griffin Newman?

  Did you hear Kiyori Mundy on Jay Moore's podcast? He was telling some crazy stories.

• 1:11:37Griffin Newman?

  Cause I think that's where that clip came from.

• 1:11:39Speaker 02

  It was.

• 1:11:39Griffin Newman?

  And he was just talking about all his former co-stars.

• 1:11:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:42David Sims?

  So happy Jay Moore has a podcast.

• 1:11:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I never realized that Sassy Tin was addicted to poppers.

• 1:11:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:48Griffin Newman?

  And it's crazy that he still is like so on point. Like you watch that movie, he doesn't miss a mark.

• 1:11:54Speaker 02

  Well, they, he, basically he was one of the, like, like when you call action, he's just in it.

• 1:11:58Griffin Newman?

  He just suddenly locks it. Right. Right.

• 1:12:00Speaker 02

  And there are people who work like that, you know?

• 1:12:03David Sims?

  Did you guys see that tweet that was like Bill Simmons, like watching Phantom, or doing a, you know, where he's like, kind of like Subulba?

• 1:12:12Griffin Newman?

  Got the.

• 1:12:15David Sims?

  Like, just like 10 minutes and he's like, I kind of like Subulba.

• 1:12:23David Sims?

  Subulba's gotta come back.

• 1:12:24Speaker 03

  I want, I want to bring this up because.

• 1:12:26David Sims?

  Subulba?

• 1:12:26Speaker 03

  I, I want to, yeah, I want to bring something. I love Subulba. There's, Subulba was a great character.

• 1:12:31David Sims?

  Well, you like his sportsmanship and his general kind of like on field demeanor and.

• 1:12:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:12:35Griffin Newman?

  Also his personal life.

• 1:12:36Speaker 03

  The lines, yeah, the lines with my sports team and my life and how I treat things. Um, I, I, I wanted to bring this up because we're like, just like Newman's Own, where we, we come from a food podcast. We're sandwich guys, I guess is.

• 1:12:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're sandwich guys.

• 1:12:50Griffin Newman?

  Sandwich guys is almost a term I would use.

• 1:12:51Speaker 03

  That is sad that we are just sandwich guys. I guess when you boil it down, we're fucking sandwich guys. And, uh, I went to the Nighthawk Cinema.

• 1:12:58David Sims?

  Oh yeah, that's right.

• 1:12:59Speaker 03

  The other day. Yes. I went, I saw, uh.

• 1:13:01David Sims?

  How was The Accountant 2?

• 1:13:03Speaker 03

  I, The Accountant 2 is like very, it's very, it's a fun movie. It's not a great movie, but it is like, it's, it's fun. John Berenthal is having fun in the movie and, uh, and it's, to not be insensitive here, I'm trying to put this in a good way, but Affleck.

• 1:13:22Speaker 03

  Is playing it more like someone who's on the spectrum in two than he was in one, which is kind of strange. Right. In one, it's, I feel like a very thin gloss of like, that's his superpower. Yes. And in two, you're like, oh, he's like, you're really seeing more of the side that he's like on this, which is, it's strange.

• 1:13:39Griffin Newman?

  He's going full Bazinga.

• 1:13:40Speaker 03

  He's going, he's going, he's going full Bazinga. He is. Griff, thank you for putting it into, into a good term.

• 1:13:48Griffin Newman?

  I'm just trying to think, like, what is the most sensitive way?

• 1:13:51Speaker 03

  That is a hundred percent. Hollywood autism is actually, yeah. Right. He's, he's, he's really doing it. And, and I just, you guys gave me some suggestions on things to get there. And I, it's just a great. You went to the Nighthawk.

• 1:14:01Griffin Newman?

  They got that interesting new sandwich, which you ordered, right?

• 1:14:04Speaker 03

  I, I, I.

• 1:14:05Griffin Newman?

  Oh, you didn't. You got the tendies.

• 1:14:06Speaker 03

  I got the tendies. Did you like the tendies? I thought the tendies were fantastic.

• 1:14:09Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 1:14:10Speaker 03

  I thought they were really.

• 1:14:11Speaker 02

  What different sauces were we talking about?

• 1:14:11Speaker 03

  They had a great, uh, I think it was like a dill rant, or I think it was buttermilk ranch, but there was a strong dill flavor to it. It was, it was.

• 1:14:18Griffin Newman?

  Cornflake crust.

• 1:14:19Speaker 03

  The cornflake crusted chicken tenders, because I wanted to get popcorn too. So a sandwich, I was like.

• 1:14:24Griffin Newman?

  You get the regular, the Nighthawk popcorn.

• 1:14:26Speaker 03

  I, I went with your suggestion. I got the Nighthawk popcorn.

• 1:14:28Griffin Newman?

  It's unbelievable, right?

• 1:14:29Speaker 03

  I'm gonna, if, if.

• 1:14:30Griffin Newman?

  Citric acid, a little bit of salt, yeah.

• 1:14:32Speaker 03

  If someone's gives me a food suggestion, I'm gonna eat it. Wags will know that's true. I, I, I got the fire walk with me cocktail. My favorite cocktail there, for sure. A great, you said one of the best cocktails in the city. A frozen coca cola cocktail. He said that. I do like it a lot. Yeah. And a, a, a good time. A little, weirdly, a little chatty. The theater was a little bit chatty, but, uh.

• 1:14:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, we apologize for that.

• 1:14:53Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, yeah, yeah. A movie like The Accountant Two, I guess you can't really hope for a totally sort of devoted audience. I mean. You guys, Griffin, Griffin Sims were sitting behind me and I was eating and they're like, I think he likes it. Like, that's, that was them, just.

• 1:15:07Griffin Newman?

  They got the sandwich though, which I was, I was recommending to you, even though I think the tendies was the better option.

• 1:15:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:12Griffin Newman?

  You're coming off of a big food day.

• 1:15:14Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:15:15Griffin Newman?

  Uh, but they got, they got a celery root pastrami sandwich right now.

• 1:15:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:19Griffin Newman?

  That is like curing celery root in the style of pastrami.

• 1:15:24Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:15:24Griffin Newman?

  With that seasoning on multi-grain with like the onions and it's.

• 1:15:29Speaker 03

  Is it a vegetarian sandwich?

• 1:15:30Griffin Newman?

  It's a fully veggie sandwich.

• 1:15:31Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:15:32Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I think it's even vegan.

• 1:15:34Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:15:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:35Speaker 03

  I, I, I, that, that place, it rules. It's such a cool, it's, it's, it's, it's wild to me that Los Angeles doesn't have, uh, I mean, we have a lot. Look, we're spoiled in a lot of different ways, but there's nothing that checks the same. It's a cool bar in there and everything. It's a real, it's really great.

• 1:15:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, there is an Alamo in LA, but it's, you know, there's, there's one of them.

• 1:15:55David Sims?

  And I feel like it hasn't gone over that well in LA.

• 1:15:57Speaker 02

  It's, it's an interest like.

• 1:15:59Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:00Speaker 02

  It's in downtown. It's right above a train stop, but you know, that which is nice. It's like, it's like directly upstairs from, from metro stop. But for people who are used to driving there, it's, it's, it's a pretty inconvenient place to park.

• 1:16:13Griffin Newman?

  Nighthawk has two locations in New York, and I think they kind of are what Alamo was in Texas 30 years ago. And then obviously when these things, it's what you guys talk about all the time, but when they scale up to become chains, you start having to make these like strategic concessions and tightenings. And I think they've done as good of a job in a certain ways as you can of still making things feel like cool and personal. But Nighthawk still has that like, right. It's close enough to the ground.

• 1:16:39David Sims?

  It's right. It's like a nice local business. Right.

• 1:16:43Speaker 03

  And the Alamo, like you'll be watching a movie and you'll hear like, all aboard, you know, you hear like the, the train, you know, the conductor yelling for the train.

• 1:16:49David Sims?

  Yeah. It is weird that the LA metro is steam train.

• 1:16:54Speaker 02

  We keep it old school.

• 1:16:55David Sims?

  I've still never ridden the LA metro. I want to.

• 1:16:58Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:16:58David Sims?

  As a.

• 1:16:58Griffin Newman?

  You're out there.

• 1:16:59David Sims?

  That's weird because you're out there all the time. I've been to Los Angeles several times in my life. I'll have.

• 1:17:04Griffin Newman?

  When was the last time?

• 1:17:05David Sims?

  Uh, 2019 or 2018, like before the pandemic.

• 1:17:08Speaker 02

  The, the D line right now, which is.

• 1:17:10Griffin Newman?

  So it was right before you went to Wuhan?

• 1:17:13Griffin Newman?

  Sorry, go on now.

• 1:17:14David Sims?

  I was sending to my, uh, pangolin farm. Is that what they're called? I forget. Oh God.

• 1:17:19Speaker 02

  Formerly the purple line is, is closed for 70 days right now as of this recording because they are.

• 1:17:26David Sims?

  70 days is a very specific amount of days.

• 1:17:28Speaker 02

  It is, it is, it is.

• 1:17:29David Sims?

  The New York City subway is kind of like, I don't know, spring, like, you know, like they, they tend to be pretty chill about it. Okay. It's closed for 70 days.

• 1:17:36Speaker 02

  That's the span they gave us.

• 1:17:37Speaker 03

  The ring times 10.

• 1:17:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:39Speaker 03

  Oh, good point.

• 1:17:40Speaker 02

  I said 70 days, but the city announced it as the ring times 10.

• 1:17:44David Sims?

  Yeah. Because they know it's movie lovers.

• 1:17:45Speaker 03

  It's Hollywood. It's Hollywood.

• 1:17:47Speaker 02

  It's tinsel down, uh, but it's extending the, the D line all the way west from downtown. And it will actually, there will be a stop directly below the Academy Museum.

• 1:17:56Griffin Newman?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:17:57Speaker 02

  Um, which is kind of, uh, kind of a rad place.

• 1:17:59David Sims?

  The D is the purple line.

• 1:18:01Speaker 02

  Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:18:01David Sims?

  The purple line. Okay.

• 1:18:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. Fairfax and Woolshire.

• 1:18:03Griffin Newman?

  See, when, when they do renovations here in the city, it is like three out of every five Tuesdays for the next seven years, the train will be on fire. Like that long.

• 1:18:17David Sims?

  Uh, have you ridden the subway yet, Nick? I'm excited for you to ride the new subway.

• 1:18:21Griffin Newman?

  No, I've not got the chance to do, but I will today.

• 1:18:23David Sims?

  But have you ever ridden the subway?

• 1:18:24Griffin Newman?

  Of course, yeah.

• 1:18:25David Sims?

  Yes, of course. Yeah.

• 1:18:26Griffin Newman?

  Every time I'm in New York.

• 1:18:27David Sims?

  I just want you. My daughter is getting really into the subway because I've been pushing it so hard.

• 1:18:32Griffin Newman?

  Does she have a favorite line?

• 1:18:33David Sims?

  Well, the three train, which is sort of our train.

• 1:18:36Griffin Newman?

  Got it.

• 1:18:36David Sims?

  But she's very intent on me taking the seven train and like, or oh, she wants to take it too. It's not near us, but so I have to take a picture of the seven. I have to start taking pictures of every train I ride so I can show her.

• 1:18:46Griffin Newman?

  My, my friend who's got, uh, Alex Perlin, the great off mentioned, uh, Alex Perlin, who has a son about, uh, your daughter's age. They live, uh, off the seven train and he's similarly, uh, public transit obsessed. But he's like, it is the best line to live off of with a train obsessed kid. Cause it just basically goes back and forth.

• 1:19:10David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:10Griffin Newman?

  A pretty like controlled number of stops and most of it's above ground.

• 1:19:14David Sims?

  Above ground, you can stop to see.

• 1:19:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:16David Sims?

  Yeah. I love the seven train. I think it's a great line.

• 1:19:19Speaker 03

  You're reminding me of something. Can I pitch this to you?

• 1:19:20David Sims?

  There's a, there's a, there's a, there's a new scary movie coming out.

• 1:19:25Speaker 03

  And, and I was on the fat guy chain and we were, we were pitching this around, but, uh, uh,

• 1:19:30Griffin Newman?

  Bitch should clarify that the fat guy chain is, it's a group of friends that are talking in group.

• 1:19:35Speaker 03

  Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. John Gabris, Stavros and, uh, and Zach Sherry. They were all, we're all on the, the fat guy chain.

• 1:19:41Griffin Newman?

  Three of the greats.

• 1:19:42Speaker 03

  We have a blast in there. Um, but you know, there's a new scary movie coming out and we were saying like, you know, like a ring, good ring thing is like the curse tape is, uh, is rust. It's just, uh, it's a copy of rust.

• 1:19:52Griffin Newman?

  Pretty good.

• 1:19:54Speaker 03

  And then all Alec Baldwin crawls out of the TV at the, like, uh, at some point in the movie, we were saying, uh, that's, that's, that's what I was thinking. But, uh, I want to pitch this to the Waynes. I don't know how you, I don't know if you can just pitch a specific bit to the Waynes brothers.

• 1:20:07Griffin Newman?

  I think they're blankies. So I think if you just. They're definitely blank. Probably the best way to do it is just to do what you just.

• 1:20:12Speaker 03

  All right, great. So, all right, it's in.

• 1:20:13Griffin Newman?

  They're, they're brainstorming six now. They signed a deal to come back and do scary movie six.

• 1:20:18Speaker 03

  Yes. Yeah. No, they're saying, he's saying they're back. That's, yeah, yeah. That's, that's, this is, I want this in the, I want that. I want the curse.

• 1:20:24David Sims?

  They're gonna talk about Anora.

• 1:20:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:25David Sims?

  I'm trying to think, I'm trying to think of like what scary movie will go after.

• 1:20:28Griffin Newman?

  That's the thing. Like scary movie four has like 20 minutes on Brokeback Mountain.

• 1:20:31David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:20:32Speaker 03

  I'm sure, but it sure it's aged very well too.

• 1:20:34David Sims?

  I guess there'll be a lot of sinners. Sinners will be prime.

• 1:20:39Griffin Newman?

  Do you think they've been throwing pencils at the ceiling with a completely blank dry erase board for six months and then sinners came out?

• 1:20:48David Sims?

  The amount of pussy eating alone.

• 1:20:51Griffin Newman?

  Laptop keyboards on fire.

• 1:20:55Griffin Newman?

  Here we go. Okay.

• 1:20:56David Sims?

  All right. So I'm going to open the dossier. I'm realizing we're going all over the place. Yeah. But we do have a dossier here and I do need to of course edify you to something you may already know, which is that Joel Cohen and Sam Raimi are longtime friends who met working as an editor for Edna Ruth Paul in New York when they were young, you know, up and comers.

• 1:21:14Griffin Newman?

  Joel Cohen cuts his teeth doing low budget horror as an editor, assistant editor. And one of those movies he happens to work on, he basically talks about like, one of them was never released.

• 1:21:24David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:21:24Griffin Newman?

  Two of them have been forgotten forever.

• 1:21:26David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:21:26Griffin Newman?

  And the other one was The Evil Dead.

• 1:21:29David Sims?

  Uh, correct. It was a one film called Fear No Evil, another one he got fired from called Nightmare and one called The Evil Dead. A good movie.

• 1:21:36Griffin Newman?

  And basically that's the last time he edits for anyone else, but it like, that relationship, him meeting him, like it all starts to come together. Their careers start to roll.

• 1:21:47David Sims?

  So they were pals and obviously this is the only, this is the only Cohen Brothers film that Raimi has a writing credit on, right?

• 1:21:53Griffin Newman?

  Well, the Cohens have a writing credit, of course, on Crime Wave, which Raimi ends up directing. And then this is the opposite.

• 1:22:00David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:22:01Griffin Newman?

  But this is in this early period, they write these two scripts together.

• 1:22:05David Sims?

  Yes, they also.

• 1:22:06Griffin Newman?

  And then Raimi directs one, the Cohens direct one.

• 1:22:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. Cause this is written in like the eighties, right?

• 1:22:11David Sims?

  Okay. Uh, written about 1985, around the same time they wrote the XYZ murders, which is eventually what Crime Wave is. Uh, ostensibly they just were like, we will set it in a sort of mythical fifties, not a real fifties. And we wanted everything to be sort of fable like, so things like the hula hoop and the frisbee,

• 1:22:31David Sims?

  uh, did get invented in the fifties, I guess. The hula hoop has existed since like the stone age, but like, and the fad was in the fifties.

• 1:22:39Griffin Newman?

  Whammo is the toy company that has the trademark or whatever on popularizing the two things in the fifties. And they were just like. We're gonna do no research into the actual thing. Right. The thing with the straw, they did no research into that. I don't know what the straw was. Right. That they pulled out of their asses. But they, it's this big thing when people were like critiquing the movie at the time where they were like, we don't think this is an homage. It's like us being like, we love these types of movies. Why don't people make movies like this anymore? Rather than being like, let's try to reconstruct one as tribute. And they said, and I just think it's so smart. And I think it speaks to the underlying sincerity of this movie. The way they land on hula hoop was they were like, we want to build a comedy around something that sounds so silly.

• 1:23:23Griffin Newman?

  That everyone in the reality of the movie would mock it, and yet the audience knows, of course, this is going to work. And something like the hula hoop, which we've all grown up with as a given, if you try to imagine someone pitching it, you're like, everyone would be like, what the fuck are you talking about? And so many of their movies, especially the thrillers, but the comedies as well, they're really smart in story construction and building things around. The audience being a step or two ahead of the characters. They don't quite know what they're getting into. And then what makes the cone so great is that usually. We're waiting for what we assume will be the blow up. And then they zag it and take it slightly off kilter where you expect the outcome's gonna go. And this is a comedy with that inherent tension built in, which is like, you're ready for this guy to fail.

• 1:24:08Griffin Newman?

  But you're like, no, of course it works. It's the fucking hula hoop. It's a hit.

• 1:24:12Speaker 02

  The hula hoop also gives it the miraculous joke of just a picture of a circle, a drawing of a circle that, you know, for kids.

• 1:24:20Griffin Newman?

  It's so funny.

• 1:24:21Speaker 02

  It's so funny. The moment where he takes it out to show it to Paul Newman, and then he turned, he realizes the circle was upside down and turns it around. It's so great.

• 1:24:30Griffin Newman?

  It is funny every time.

• 1:24:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:32Griffin Newman?

  It is funny when they heighten it to the straw and the frisbee, despite having seen the poster. When I went to see this for the first time, I think I forgot it was a hula hoop movie. So when they introduced the circle drawing, I was like, oh, the bit is that they're never going to define what this is. That it's a dumb abstract pitch.

• 1:24:49David Sims?

  But no, it's just for kids.

• 1:24:51Griffin Newman?

  And it makes the joke that much better that once he reveals it.

• 1:24:54Speaker 02

  I don't, I don't think I can do it. Like I, like I.

• 1:24:57David Sims?

  I'm not very good at it.

• 1:24:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm not very good at it. Now, my, my wife, again, like loves to hula hoop. She has a hula hoop and just like hula all the time. So.

• 1:25:05Speaker 03

  That little kid who does a hula hoop in the movie does a damn good job at it.

• 1:25:08David Sims?

  My wife was like, where'd they find this hula hooping genius child?

• 1:25:12Griffin Newman?

  He was a pro or had a record or something. You can tell in like the tension in his body that he's got like a lot of practice. He's doing very specific.

• 1:25:20David Sims?

  They rehearsed moves. They got permission from Wham-O and its parent company, Krantz Co. Group, which is very litigious, apparently. There is, uh, Krantz Co.'s basically only big question was, will the hula hoop hurt anyone in the film? And when they find out, no, they, that's fine. They're like, okay, there is a giant disclaimer at the end of the movie. I don't know if you guys saw it.

• 1:25:42Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:25:43David Sims?

  Where it says, this is a fictional account of the development of the hula hoop. And the big line is the hula hoop was actually developed by the founders of the toy company Wham-O, a true American success story. Like they suck Wham-O's dick in the credits.

• 1:25:55Speaker 03

  You know what?

• 1:25:56Speaker 02

  I like it.

• 1:25:56Speaker 03

  They should. They deserve that sucking. Yeah. I, it was, it's, it's, it's, it's great. I like that they were okay with them doing it.

• 1:26:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. That's that whole sequence that ends with the little boy picking the hula off the ground. And hooling. Yeah, it is. But it's also just so dazzling. Like just going from, from approval, uh, to, you know, they're taking it through all the various departments. They're taking it to accounting. They take it to manufacturing. Um, they take it to marketing, uh, and then it's in stores and we see it be a commercial flop and then be a commercial success. And it's all happening in like a two minute montage.

• 1:26:26Griffin Newman?

  So Raimi was second unit director on this movie, which they had never really had before. And I don't know if they ever had again since, because they're guys who are very big on like, we shoot everything. We want to have control of our inserts. But they obviously trusted him so much. He had written it. That whole sequence is like his main project in this movie.

• 1:26:44Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:26:44Griffin Newman?

  Which makes sense because there is like.

• 1:26:47David Sims?

  It's like Spider-Man.

• 1:26:48Griffin Newman?

  Yes, it is so like-

• 1:26:49David Sims?

  It's like the montage stuff in Spider-Man.

• 1:26:51Griffin Newman?

  Deep with details and control that it makes sense that it was basically treated as its own like eight-minute short film that has its own, our buddy Patrick Williams made a great video about it where he was just like, "This is the greatest movie montage of all time because it basically functions as a mini movie."

• 1:27:06David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:27:06Griffin Newman?

  It has its own characters, its own arcs.

• 1:27:08David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:27:09Griffin Newman?

  Completes a story.

• 1:27:10David Sims?

  The guy with the, you know, price labels going up and down and all that.

• 1:27:14Griffin Newman?

  And the fucking pitchman, like you have like four different narratives you keep checking back in on.

• 1:27:19Speaker 03

  And just following that, the, just following the hula hoop as it rolls along.

• 1:27:22David Sims?

  It becomes a character unto himself.

• 1:27:24Griffin Newman?

  Yes, and Carter Burwell going out of fucking control.

• 1:27:28David Sims?

  Carter Burwell does blackout making this movie. It is crazy.

• 1:27:30Speaker 03

  We haven't talked about the Carter Burwell score. It's so incredible.

• 1:27:34David Sims?

  Um, so the Coens don't have a particular inspiration, they say, you know, yes, kind of a Capra-esque thing. Golden Age of Hollywood, sure, but they're not like ripping off, you know, it's just like, sometimes it's got a His Girl Friday energy, sometimes what, you know, like, when the film comes out, as we noted, it does get a lot of shit for kind of like, you're just doing, you know, what they did back in the 30s better.

• 1:27:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:58David Sims?

  Um, and the Coens, uh, sort of, well, they don't care.

• 1:28:02Griffin Newman?

  Everything with the paper is very Hoxian, right? The Capra, like, kind of, um, through line is the like, one idealistic, pure man who is able to like change the world around him, which is kind of the Norville Barnes character in a certain way, even though he's presented as a total dope. Um, and then the, the Sturges, like, uh, I feel like trademark is this sort of like, we're all stuck in the crazy machinery of modern life. That, that characters get kind of like knocked around like in a pinball machine through like, corporations and rules of society and all this sort of stuff. And I, I think it's those three things clashing together with this like- This world building that does feel like it's out of like in a war film.

• 1:28:48David Sims?

  Now, they write this movie in 1985. They know they cannot make a movie like this.

• 1:28:51Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:28:51David Sims?

  You know, early on, it's gonna be expensive.

• 1:28:54Griffin Newman?

  Right, like wrote it, didn't think at all about how they would film it. Finished the script, looked at it and were like, oh, no one will give us the money to make this and we don't know how to pull this off.

• 1:29:02David Sims?

  They also do not write the ending. They could not figure out the ending. They just have him jump and they're like, we'll figure it out later. You know, he's on the ledge, essentially.

• 1:29:10Speaker 02

  An insane ending. I mean, I.

• 1:29:11David Sims?

  It is an insane ending.

• 1:29:12Speaker 02

  I like it though. That was one thing I like, as a kid, I remember watching it and the moment when time stops and then the guy gets, a character who was, I guess, essentially the devil, like gets his, his teeth punched out. I was like, what the fuck, what am I, what the fuck is this? What in this movie I'm watching?

• 1:29:26David Sims?

  It is quite a twist to reveal, yeah, that the janitor is, yeah, evil, I guess, if Bill Cobbs is good, like. So that is crucial to them all the time, though, that where they're writing it, because apparently at one point, I think it's Raimi. Raimi's like, well, should, maybe should Musburger be more of a good guy? And the coines are like, no, he is bad. Like, there are only good and bad. Like, this movie does not have shades of gray.

• 1:29:50Griffin Newman?

  It's black and white.

• 1:29:51Speaker 02

  It's so much more fun that he's just a bad guy and he gets caught in a big net and sent to a sanitary.

• 1:29:57David Sims?

  So funny that that's what happens to him. It's also so funny that the double stitch, which is of course the best joke in the movie. He's the guy saying, oh, he's such a nice man. I'm like, no, he's not.

• 1:30:07Griffin Newman?

  We'll circle back to the double stitch. Double stitch is 40 minutes of its own conversation. Raimi and the way that like, when we covered him, we talked so much about how he loved to torture Bruce Campbell. And like designed sequences around putting him in physical pain and like embarrass himself. When they would, like, the three of them would physically write together in the same room, Raimi would buy firecrackers. And if they hit walls, he'd like shoot firecrackers at them and be like, come on, guys, ideas, don't slow down.

• 1:30:35David Sims?

  Yes, throw firecrackers at them.

• 1:30:37Griffin Newman?

  Our buddy Kevin Smith, when he was on the show, in our Raimi days, four simple plan. Talked about how he thinks the Buzz character is the Coens mocking Raimi in the way he speaks.

• 1:30:50David Sims?

  Right. Raimi's kind of midwestern G Willikers.

• 1:30:52Griffin Newman?

  Right. He's like, really? Like, he's like, this is Raimi's energy if you've ever met him.

• 1:30:56David Sims?

  Uh.

• 1:30:57Griffin Newman?

  Like amplified into Buzz.

• 1:30:58David Sims?

  He did say that. That's right. He said like, that's what Sam Raimi is like. Yes.

• 1:31:02Speaker 02

  You mentioned the, the flexy straw earlier and that, you know, Buzz, when he goes and pitches that, that's just like such a, such an incredible performance. I mean, just like him just like rattling off. Cause like, he's doing it every, with every line of dialogue he's got. Everything is so crisp. Everything is so precise. His cadence is so rapid fire, but in particular there, and then he also has the emotional arc of when he gets fired. And then he just collapses into tears and says, this job is all that I've got. Um, I don't know. It's so fucking good.

• 1:31:31David Sims?

  I think again, that's the sincerity, you know, like it's like, and you are like, oh no, you know, like you're not just like, ah, fuck that guy. You know, you do feel bad.

• 1:31:40Griffin Newman?

  He plays that scene so well for a character that is just kind of like comedic construction. Like what if a guy talked this way, right? That in that scene when Tim Robbins like lashes out at him, he's doing this balance of being like so personally hurt. But Buzz's core like tenet is to be friendly to everyone all the time. So he keeps going like, ah, hey, come on, Kai. I, I tried my best, you know, he's like through tears, trying to apologize to Tim Robbins for offending him with a bad pitch. When Tim Robbins is basically just shitting on him because now he's been like taken down himself. He needs to feel big.

• 1:32:18David Sims?

  He wa- he was the, he was the guy who did that. Like at first I was like, what the hell is going on here? When I was first watching the movie and then completely wins me over, especially. So loud at first. Yes, even by this movie's standards. Um.

• 1:32:31Speaker 02

  Okay. He loves to say buddy. I like that he says buddy a bunch. Yeah, pretty great.

• 1:32:34David Sims?

  So the Coens make, uh.

• 1:32:38Speaker 03

  They make, well, they make blood symbol and then they make three movies for the company. Circle Films, they make uh uh fucking Raising Arizona, Miller's Crossing.

• 1:32:45Griffin Newman?

  Fucking Miller's Crossing, fucking Barden.

• 1:32:47Speaker 02

  Well, that's right. Was ever, I mean, I know you, you both have talked about this before, but on other episodes, but what, what was, what was everyone's first Coen Brothers movie? Mine was Raising Arizona, cause I, I remember that just showing oddly on cable.

• 1:32:58Speaker 03

  My, my parents. Tried to help puzzle this out already, but go ahead.

• 1:33:01Griffin Newman?

  My parents rented Raising Arizona for me and I didn't get it. I think I probably a similar reaction to you with Hudsucker didn't make it to the end. I think Oh Brother was the first one I saw in theaters and then I was like, I gotta watch all these.

• 1:33:12Speaker 03

  Oh, Brother's definitely the first one I saw in theaters. I think Fargo, I don't know. I, did I talk about this already? Yeah.

• 1:33:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I figured you, we probably covered this in another episode.

• 1:33:19Speaker 03

  I don't remember though. I remember anything anymore.

• 1:33:21Speaker 02

  Fargo was the first one.

• 1:33:22Speaker 03

  Likes European Vacation. That was news to me.

• 1:33:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, we were texting about it and David was like, when did you say this? And I said, in the episode.

• 1:33:28Speaker 03

  No memory of that, but then apparently I saw the people reacting and it was like, apparently Griffin on that episode is just like, and I like that part. Me and Gaber still like, okay.

• 1:33:38Speaker 02

  Fargo was the first one I saw in theaters and the first one that, that I liked, the first one I was like, oh wow, wait, okay.

• 1:33:43Speaker 03

  So you're right. You were old enough to see Fargo. That's pretty cool.

• 1:33:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:33:45Speaker 03

  So Fargo. I didn't, I did not see Fargo in theaters. Also, can you stop pointing your banana at me?

• 1:33:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, why is it just holding?

• 1:33:52Speaker 03

  He's holding a banana. My girl loves, loves to have a piece of fruit.

• 1:33:54Griffin Newman?

  I've had string with it a lot.

• 1:33:56Speaker 02

  Look, I've had check out the banana sitting here. I'm going to deploy it at some point. I, but I was, I was trying to cue you up to say what your first Coen Brothers movie was. Non-verbally, but I was using the banana. I'm sorry.

• 1:34:06Speaker 03

  You used the banana. I didn't know if you were just string for me to eat the banana. I didn't know what the hell was going on.

• 1:34:10Speaker 02

  No, it's my banana.

• 1:34:11Griffin Newman?

  Walked in here, I thought you had a banana in your pocket, but now you're holding the banana and your pants are so tense.

• 1:34:19Speaker 03

  My first Coen Brothers movie in the theater. I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to do a little deep dive here to figure this out.

• 1:34:23Griffin Newman?

  Or if you watch one at home first.

• 1:34:25Speaker 02

  Well, you were going through the filmography, so maybe that'll trigger something.

• 1:34:27Speaker 03

  I mean Fargo is definitely, I think the first one I watched.

• 1:34:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:30Speaker 03

  But I, I did not, I did not see it in the theater, but the first one in the theater is like.

• 1:34:34Griffin Newman?

  Lebowski? Did you see Lebowski in theaters?

• 1:34:35Speaker 03

  I didn't see Lebowski in theaters and Lebowski is one of the early ones I watched. So Fargo, Fargo or Lebowski, like in like high school or college or whatever. Renting it. Yeah. And then the first one in theaters, I'm like, I didn't see Oh Brother in theaters. Maybe it maybe was Burn After Reading was my first.

• 1:34:51Griffin Newman?

  You didn't see No Country in theaters?

• 1:34:53Speaker 03

  Oh, I saw No Country.

• 1:34:54Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:34:54Speaker 03

  So No Country is I guess the, the, is, is, is the one.

• 1:34:57Griffin Newman?

  Um.

• 1:34:58David Sims?

  I mean, Ladykillers, Tom Hanks is basically doing your like southern, you know, Cajun gentleman character.

• 1:35:05Speaker 03

  Oh, so you're saying a very good representation of the, okay.

• 1:35:08Griffin Newman?

  Tom Hanks basically plays a snowgator.

• 1:35:10Speaker 03

  Oh, my god.

• 1:35:11Griffin Newman?

  Is dressed in all white.

• 1:35:13Speaker 03

  I am now thinking, is then is Ladykillers the first Coen Brothers?

• 1:35:18Griffin Newman?

  Maybe.

• 1:35:19Speaker 03

  What year is that?

• 1:35:19Griffin Newman?

  That's four. Yeah, oh, four.

• 1:35:21Speaker 03

  Shit, Ladykillers is probably my first Coen Brothers.

• 1:35:23Griffin Newman?

  You had seen their other movies on video.

• 1:35:25Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:35:25Griffin Newman?

  That's the first one I saw on Twitter.

• 1:35:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:35:27Griffin Newman?

  You were already into them. It's also funny that in Ladykillers, there are like four separate scenes where he tricks you two guys into sucking him off. But you didn't remember that?

• 1:35:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:35:36Griffin Newman?

  He keeps, he's running two cons. One is he's trying to rob a casino and the other one is to get you guys to keep giving him dome.

• 1:35:45Speaker 02

  But we got great early credit for us.

• 1:35:46Speaker 03

  I was, I know. Huge. Get to suck Tom Hanks off.

• 1:35:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, I guess we didn't, we should talk about how we were both in a Coen Brothers movie.

• 1:35:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:35:54Speaker 02

  And also sucked off Tom Hanks.

• 1:35:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:35:56Griffin Newman?

  Except those scenes didn't make the cut of the movie.

• 1:35:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're all deleted scenes.

• 1:36:00Speaker 03

  It was worth it, though. I really enjoyed, it was a great experience.

• 1:36:03Griffin Newman?

  Also, the cameras weren't rolling and it was in his hotel room.

• 1:36:06David Sims?

  We can cut this out. We can cut this out. I think we should cut this out. Not this part, this part's fine.

• 1:36:10Griffin Newman?

  So it wasn't Tom Hanks?

• 1:36:12David Sims?

  What I'm about to say, I think I'm gonna want us to cut it out.

• 1:36:15Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:36:15David Sims?

  I'm just alerting you, Ben.

• 1:36:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:17Speaker 03

  I, I, I think this has to stay in, though. The stuff talking about, talking about, talking about. It has to stay in.

• 1:36:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:23David Sims?

  Do you think Tom Hanks has a good penis?

• 1:36:25Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:36:25David Sims?

  Okay.

• 1:36:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:26Speaker 03

  I know, so, I think, I think it needs to stay in.

• 1:36:29Griffin Newman?

  By the way, we're keeping this in.

• 1:36:29Speaker 03

  All right, all right.

• 1:36:30Griffin Newman?

  I don't think he has like a, you gotta write home about it penis.

• 1:36:33Speaker 03

  Like, it's good.

• 1:36:33Griffin Newman?

  I think he's got an incredibly sturdy American penis.

• 1:36:38Speaker 02

  He's got a beautiful everyman penis.

• 1:36:39Speaker 03

  It just, it does the job.

• 1:36:41Griffin Newman?

  It does.

• 1:36:41Speaker 03

  Competent.

• 1:36:42Griffin Newman?

  The job.

• 1:36:42Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:36:43Griffin Newman?

  And it's almost like, it's a little, it's a little unremarkable at first. And that, the kind of plainness is what sneaks up on you.

• 1:36:49David Sims?

  Right, it sneaks up on you.

• 1:36:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:51David Sims?

  All right.

• 1:36:53David Sims?

  But like not, but not me. I think he's like a, a bit of a grower.

• 1:36:57Griffin Newman?

  A bit, just a little bit.

• 1:36:58David Sims?

  You know, like it's just, it's, it's just all good.

• 1:37:00Griffin Newman?

  You see it and you're like, that's okay. And then it grows a little bit beyond your expectations.

• 1:37:04Speaker 03

  Can I, can I, can I tell you my thought? I think, I think he has a big bush.

• 1:37:09David Sims?

  Like a weirdly big bush?

• 1:37:10Speaker 03

  And just, just from when, in Gump, when he grows that beard, it's pretty wild. So I'm like, I think, I think, I think, I think he's a hairy man.

• 1:37:16Griffin Newman?

  He's got an upside down Gump beard.

• 1:37:18Speaker 03

  I think he has an upside down Gump beard.

• 1:37:20Speaker 02

  But he doesn't have like a hairy torso or hairy, like particularly hairy.

• 1:37:22Speaker 03

  He's kinda hairy and castaway. He's like a little hairy.

• 1:37:25Griffin Newman?

  But.

• 1:37:26David Sims?

  That was quite the noise you just made. He went, huh.

• 1:37:28Griffin Newman?

  Cause the beard gets so out of control and castaway, but I do think he's just kinda got a speckling of hair. He doesn't have like a, a fursuit.

• 1:37:37Speaker 03

  I love this conversation. It's making me feel better about my scary movie pitch from earlier.

• 1:37:42Speaker 03

  Which I think is a good pitch. I, I think, I think Hank, I think Hank's is just an all American in every way.

• 1:37:48David Sims?

  He's got great. Just like, just the best of us.

• 1:37:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:37:52David Sims?

  So they made these three movies, Joel Silver, the Hawaiian shirt wearing.

• 1:37:56Speaker 02

  Wait, I'm sorry, the three movies again?

• 1:37:57Speaker 03

  You're still pointing with the banana.

• 1:37:59Speaker 02

  Sorry, I'll put the banana down. I'm sorry.

• 1:38:01David Sims?

  No, no, keep it, keep it, keep it. So Blood Simple is their obviously indie movie debut. And then they make three movies for a company called Circle Films that basically gives them like a little budget to make something and releases it and it makes a little more money. So Raising Arizona, Miller's Crossing, Barton Fink. But then Joel's, and those movies are well received.

• 1:38:17Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:38:18David Sims?

  But are hardly blockbusters. And then Joel Silver, who's the guy who made Predator and Die Hard and Lethal Weapon and all that, loves their movies and acquires this script from them essentially.

• 1:38:29Griffin Newman?

  Basically.

• 1:38:29David Sims?

  Says he's been a big fan for many years. He wants to make a big budget movie for them and this is their chance.

• 1:38:35Griffin Newman?

  So they, they had the script that sort of existed as their like dream project of what if someday we have enough capital that we can get someone to give us the money for Hudsucker, knowing it's a big ask. And their agent is like, Joel Silver always is asking when he can do a Coen Brothers movie. And Joel Silver had this attitude of like, I think these guys have in them a blockbuster hit movie. I think he looked at them as having like. A sort of Wolfgang Peterson type trajectory where like, here's a guy who can make like really technically proficient, but like bracing sober intellectual movies. And then maybe over time, you can give him a really big paycheck to make something kind of dumber and they apply the same skill to it.

• 1:39:18Griffin Newman?

  I think he probably misidentified that these guys are going to do their own thing forever. But he was like, I want them. And Joel Silver also like kind of is the nineties version of the Michael Lerner character from Barton Fink. Is that kind of like cigar chump and fast talking studio exec? They talk about as being like the last of the kind of Louis B Mayer archetype guys. A maniac, but he's almost exclusively doing action movies at this point in time. And I think he both like wants to be doing comedies. And like a lot of these guys, at a certain point, you're like, okay, you've had like 15 huge hit movies in a row. The only thing to still chase now is like prestige. Like now you want an Oscar.

• 1:40:02Griffin Newman?

  Can I jump over and get in bed with these guys? I should also mention that Joel Silver plays the director in Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

• 1:40:11David Sims?

  That's true. He does. He's yelling at the baby.

• 1:40:12Griffin Newman?

  Beginning of the movie, he's the one.

• 1:40:14David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:40:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:14Speaker 02

  Is that, is, but is, you're talking about this as a commercial play? Is this an attempt at?

• 1:40:20David Sims?

  I guess.

• 1:40:20Griffin Newman?

  Everyone involved is like, this is going to be their commercial breakthrough. That these guys have been like, the Coen brothers have been like percolating and they've been like getting their legs. And now everyone's ready and they were like, this is our calculation to make a broad comedy. And Silver was like, I'm not in the business of making like arty films. I want to make hits. We have designed this to win over audiences. Like in the press, they kept being like, what is this weird self indulgent like pastiche bullshit? And they were like, nope, we think this is for everybody.

• 1:40:53Speaker 02

  So this isn't an attempt to, because you, you said the word prestige. This isn't an attempt at like, hey, we're going to make a prestige picture that will also be commercially successful. This is like, we're going to just have like a.

• 1:41:02Griffin Newman?

  I think the difference is that he wanted both.

• 1:41:03Speaker 02

  They're trying to threaten, got it.

• 1:41:04Griffin Newman?

  I think he's like, I make a lot of big hit films that aren't taken seriously. Can I do both? But he wasn't looking to just like make a little arty film on the side. He goes to Warner Brothers and is like, we're, we're doing this and we're putting like $40 million. I think it was 25 and it went up to 40.

• 1:41:21David Sims?

  Supposedly it was 25, but right, I think it cost more. Yeah.

• 1:41:24Speaker 03

  Is there any point in time where this movie would be like a, a commercial success?

• 1:41:29Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, 1943. Like truly past that moment, not really.

• 1:41:34Speaker 02

  Well, I do think that there's, there's a, a thought that maybe this sort of thing was a little ahead of its time.

• 1:41:41Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:41:42Speaker 02

  Because if we're gonna talk about something that's like, you know, like talking about an iconic American product and its fictionalized, uh, you know, history. Uh, we can look at the recent mega hit, Unfrosted as a modern counter example.

• 1:41:54Griffin Newman?

  Right. Absolutely.

• 1:41:55David Sims?

  A totemic figure in the culture, Unfrosted.

• 1:41:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Can I just do that? David's gonna sigh very loudly when I say this, but I, I truly just wanna do this. Okay? Joel Silver, 48 Hours, Streets of Fire, Brewster's Million, Weird Science, Commando, Jumpin' Jack Flash, Lethal Weapon, Predator, Action Jackson, Die Hard Roadhouse, Lethal Weapon 2, Die Hard 2, Adventures of Ford Fairlane, Predator 2, Hudson Hawk, Ricochet, Last Boy Scout, Lethal Weapon 3, Demolition Man. That is, without skipping anything, every movie he made until Hudsucker Proxy. I'm not like cutting out.

• 1:42:32Speaker 02

  That is wild.

• 1:42:33Griffin Newman?

  Like, oh, and then he made like a small indie.

• 1:42:35David Sims?

  What is the artiest film in that run?

• 1:42:38Griffin Newman?

  Demolition Man?

• 1:42:40David Sims?

  That's a good movie. No, it's, it's probably Hudson Hawk.

• 1:42:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42:43David Sims?

  It's like, there's the Hudson Hawks in there where you're like, okay, he has enough of a relationship with a star that the star's like, can I make something a little weirder? And he's like, yeah, sure, Bruce. I don't know what he sounds like.

• 1:42:54Griffin Newman?

  After this, the same year as this, he also makes Richie Rich.

• 1:42:58David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:58Griffin Newman?

  And it felt like he was trying to, in a way where like Bruckheimer was like the king of a certain kind of blockbuster machismo action movie. And then was like, I wanna do Disney films. I wanna try to make Pearl Harbor. Like these guys ultimately go like, don't box me in. I can make any type of movie. And this felt like the year where he was trying. And then pretty soon after he just like goes back to his lane.

• 1:43:19David Sims?

  Now, who does Joel Silver want as the lead of this film?

• 1:43:23Griffin Newman?

  Tom Cruise.

• 1:43:24David Sims?

  He wants Tom Cruise.

• 1:43:25Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:43:25David Sims?

  And I get it. I think just Silver's just like, well, we're gonna make a star, you know, a big movie for you guys.

• 1:43:30Griffin Newman?

  This is a blue chip movie. We're gonna get all the biggest people for this.

• 1:43:33Speaker 03

  Man, I love Cruise, but I, that, I cannot see that working almost.

• 1:43:37Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:43:37David Sims?

  It's a little hard to imagine. I'd love to see it. It would be very strange.

• 1:43:42Griffin Newman?

  Let himself, I think, especially at that point in time, play this dumb.

• 1:43:46David Sims?

  Probably not. Uh.

• 1:43:48Speaker 03

  He probably would have filmed the, the, you know, the opening on a real ledge.

• 1:43:51David Sims?

  That's true. He would have actually stopped time somehow. He would have like figured out how to do that. They, the Coens do not want to deal with that. They want a lower star, a lower wattage star. They picked Tim Robbins. Uh, Paul Newman's obviously the most famous actor they've ever worked with up to this point. Uh, Clint Eastwood was their top choice, which is hilarious to consider. He was too busy making, you know, four movies a year and having threesomes or whatever it is.

• 1:44:19Griffin Newman?

  But this does feel like Paul Newman in a way doing a Clint Eastwood impression. There's a bit of it.

• 1:44:26David Sims?

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:44:27Speaker 03

  I agree with that.

• 1:44:27Griffin Newman?

  Not like one to one.

• 1:44:29David Sims?

  But the full grit kind of. Uh, Newman, uh, was kind of just like, yeah, it's an interesting script. I don't fucking know. Like he, his vibe was basically just like, what do I care if this doesn't work? Like I'm Paul Newman.

• 1:44:40Griffin Newman?

  I'm an actor for hire. And he was sort of like, they have an interesting voice. I'm at an age where like, if this movie bombs, they're not going to kick me out of Hollywood.

• 1:44:48David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:44:48Griffin Newman?

  Like he had a quote like that.

• 1:44:49David Sims?

  Good quotes. Uh, they call this an industrial comedy. What the fuck an industrial comedy is? I have no idea. And then he says, I think the Coens have a perverted vision. I think it's a good word. They don't tell a story directly. They move like crabs. And it's refreshing to find something so eccentric.

• 1:45:04Griffin Newman?

  He also had a line where he was like, they don't explain themselves well, but you get what they want. They have good eyes. He was sort of like.

• 1:45:11David Sims?

  That's kind of really, it's, I mean, that's a, it's a, as someone who makes things, it's, it's, it's.

• 1:45:17Speaker 03

  They have good eyes.

• 1:45:18David Sims?

  Yeah, it's great. It's a, it's a great description.

• 1:45:20Griffin Newman?

  His coolness though, that he was like, these guys are unlike any directors I've ever worked with. He's like, half the reason I did it was I wanted to see what it's like working with two directors. And they are like symbiotic. It does not feel like you see two people fighting for control. But also like, I'd ask them a question about my character and they'd be like faster or more evil would be their direction. And he was like, you could get frustrated by that, or you could be like, let me look around the set. Let me like, look at the script and figure out what they want. Cause it is specific.

• 1:45:50Speaker 03

  As an actor, Griff, watching the dialogue delivery, I was like, this is maybe too, I think I maybe just would never be able to do some of the stuff that's in some of, some of the dialogue rate is just so fast. I don't think I could ever perform it that quickly.

• 1:46:01Griffin Newman?

  Basically, every scene in this movie is like a skill piece for at least one performer doing something where the timing is so exquisite. And a lot of this plays out in like long takes.

• 1:46:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, like what you did, you know, what you did for the, the open there. I mean, that sequence of just like, cause that's also a oner and with so much movement, it's just like, you know, like, like background characters are just going all over the frame. And then there's just so many precise, physical moments on top of the, just like the dialogue that's being, you know, rat-a-tatted out. It's, it's just like, I can't imagine how much precision is required to actually execute that.

• 1:46:36Griffin Newman?

  When he got to set, he said, like, these are the biggest sets I have been on since The Silver Chalice, which was Paul Newman's first movie, basically, which was a biblical epic in the 50s, right before those kind of died. And he basically was like, here in 1994, this is like the biggest sets I've seen directors get to build since that thing went out of style. And he's just like, right, I get what kind of movie I'm in. And that, like, I get to play the asshole. Like, I don't have to worry about carrying the story weight.

• 1:47:05David Sims?

  Winona Ryder and Bridget Fonda, obviously in consideration for the role of Amy Archer. Makes sense.

• 1:47:10Griffin Newman?

  Ryder would have been too young. I think it would have thrown it off. Fonda makes a ton of sense.

• 1:47:14David Sims?

  Yeah, she'd be great.

• 1:47:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:15David Sims?

  Uh, instead it goes to the other single white female, Jennifer Jason Leigh. Um, and, uh, Charles Durning was cast, according to Joel Coen, because the idea of a fat person falling 40 floors is funnier than a thin person falling 40 floors. But they liked that he had that dancer background. So he could do all the physicality and all the.

• 1:47:35Griffin Newman?

  You have to convey a lot in his body.

• 1:47:37David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:38Griffin Newman?

  In like the first 60 seconds he's on screen.

• 1:47:41Speaker 02

  The, the moment, uh, just like when he is, uh, have it, the blue letter is finally being read, that, you know, he takes it out of the, the apron and he's reading at the end and it, there's the paragraph about how, cause you, you meet, you meet Paul Newman's character's wife earlier, and then there's the, like, talks about how.

• 1:47:58David Sims?

  Verbal?

• 1:47:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, talks about it. Being an affair that the way that their relationship started and then you learned that like he's the guy who got cuckolded. And then he just starts crying. He's like, ah, let's get this part. It's so funny.

• 1:48:09Griffin Newman?

  He cries like a baby.

• 1:48:12Griffin Newman?

  The feelings in his teeth.

• 1:48:14David Sims?

  They wanted Jack Lemmon in drag to play Paul Newman's wife.

• 1:48:18Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:48:19David Sims?

  They brought that idea, but they should have done it.

• 1:48:21Griffin Newman?

  That's the kind, that's the sort of gag we talked about in 1941 that makes you angry where you're like, there is like a gross abuse of like power and money.

• 1:48:30David Sims?

  You have too much resources.

• 1:48:32Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:48:32David Sims?

  Pull that off. Um, the Coens loved working with Joel Silver and had no problems.

• 1:48:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:37David Sims?

  Which is like rare. Usually it's like, oh, we clashed with him or whatever. And like, they just had a great time. They found him funny. I think they like that he's a cartoon movie mogul.

• 1:48:46Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:48:46David Sims?

  They're like, this is like a guy we would write, like this, like silly, large man smoking a cigar.

• 1:48:51Griffin Newman?

  But also guys like that, like, I mean, Rudin's another one who's like contemporaneous at this time. And I feel like Silver doing this movie is maybe him looking over at Rudin and being like, man, this guy been made big comedy hits and now he's like getting best picture nominations. Do I want to like branch out in a similar way? And Rudin later works with the Coens a bunch. And all these guys are just like, here's my deal. I find filmmakers who I think are like fully formed artists. After they've like cut their teeth on a couple of movies and I come in and I go like, hey, I'll just have all the fights for you. You guys do what you want and just don't ask me how I get it done. You know, and I think like.

• 1:49:28David Sims?

  For you and I with that.

• 1:49:29Griffin Newman?

  Joel Silver would just like yell at everybody and get them what they wanted and they could just do their thing.

• 1:49:34David Sims?

  Obviously they built giant sets. The table in the conference room is so large that it had to be delivered in five separate pieces.

• 1:49:42David Sims?

  They wanted everything to basically look like, like Mussolini's, you know, X Mussolini's room, office, Mussolini's conference room.

• 1:49:50David Sims?

  And we never see home life. Everything is work. Everything is like at the office or at the building or whatever. They basically, it's like cartoon Citizen Kane, I feel like is what they're doing, right? Just everything's just so long, so much depth of field.

• 1:50:03Griffin Newman?

  Yes. And the ceilings are so fucking high.

• 1:50:05David Sims?

  Everything is ridiculously high.

• 1:50:07Griffin Newman?

  And every character is basically like being eaten alive by their spaces.

• 1:50:12David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:50:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:12David Sims?

  Dwarthing, uh, the people. Uh, they didn't actually want to use the guy, um, Michael McAllister, who's the big visual effects guy who's worked on a ton of blank check movies, uh, like.

• 1:50:23Griffin Newman?

  Had won an Oscar for Last Crusade. You don't want to list, list a couple.

• 1:50:26David Sims?

  No, we just, come on.

• 1:50:28Griffin Newman?

  List a couple.

• 1:50:29David Sims?

  ET, Return of the Jedi, Last Crusade. Yeah, you know.

• 1:50:33Speaker 03

  Can I quickly say that this is not helping at all to keep us on track? But the banana, why it still holds on to this banana.

• 1:50:40David Sims?

  We can talk banana.

• 1:50:41Speaker 03

  And it's in the banana has oxidized. It's now, it looks like it was yellow when he came in here. And now it looks like an old banana.

• 1:50:47Griffin Newman?

  I'm handling a little too much. It's getting a little bruised.

• 1:50:49Speaker 03

  It's getting bruised.

• 1:50:50Griffin Newman?

  I gotta set it down.

• 1:50:52David Sims?

  This guy, Michael McAlister, loves the Coens. And the Coens are basically like, you can't use the Chrysler building. You can't use the Empire State Building. Like it has to be.

• 1:51:01Griffin Newman?

  No real landmark.

• 1:51:02David Sims?

  Right, exactly. Fake Art Deco New York. Uh, so they built this giant. Uh, gotta get more wipes.

• 1:51:11Griffin Newman?

  Gotta get more wipes?

• 1:51:12David Sims?

  I get texts from like home, like over the course of the day, which is usually that a child of mine has pooped. Which is always, and I've gotten into the habit of just announcing if somebody pooped on, on my podcast.

• 1:51:22Griffin Newman?

  Can I go Bill Maher mode for a second?

• 1:51:24David Sims?

  New rule?

• 1:51:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Anytime you get a text like that, as long as it is not deeply personal information, I think you need to read it out loud automatically, like you just did.

• 1:51:32David Sims?

  Three packs of wipes left, so we gotta get some more.

• 1:51:35Griffin Newman?

  Just please read these.

• 1:51:36David Sims?

  It's crazy how many wipes you need. I mean, I know it's not crazy. Like that's child rearing or whatever, but like you never think about wet wipes until you got two infant babies in your home.

• 1:51:47Griffin Newman?

  This is like every time I go to Target to refresh on toilet paper. And the employees there are like, what a big family? I'm like, no, I live alone.

• 1:51:57David Sims?

  Oh, you're like the person who's getting too much Chinese food. It is like, oh, this is for all my friends.

• 1:52:02Griffin Newman?

  I like wait until they have a sale where it's like $5 off 372 roll packs at once. And they have to like tape them to my arms to carry them home.

• 1:52:13David Sims?

  Just got a text from Mike Mitchell here. Can you get me some wipes?

• 1:52:16Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:21Speaker 03

  I just I heard what I don't know. I figure I could use some.

• 1:52:23David Sims?

  Oh, yeah, I'll get you some. I'll get you a box. Do you want the box?

• 1:52:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, give me the box.

• 1:52:27David Sims?

  It's one of those things where Amazon is like, you've purchased this 108 times or whatever. They like tell you, um, Deacons, Roger Deacons, the great cinematographer says this is their most underrated film. He loved, obviously, he kind of went off on this one. It's a good looking movie.

• 1:52:43Speaker 02

  It's gorgeous.

• 1:52:45Speaker 03

  Beautiful.

• 1:52:45Speaker 02

  From an art direction standpoint, from a, you know, visual effects standpoint, which so often visual effects is like talked about like in terms of like some sort of technical.

• 1:52:54David Sims?

  Does the dinosaur look?

• 1:52:55Speaker 02

  Exactly. But like, like it's an art, it's our, it's an artistic craft and like the, from the standpoint of artistic achievement, this is an amazing visual effects movie. And, and then obviously the cinematography is so great.

• 1:53:07David Sims?

  Deacons is a genius. Um, obviously like breaking news or whatever.

• 1:53:11Speaker 02

  Do you have a favorite thing he shot?

• 1:53:13David Sims?

  It's a good question. I mean, um.

• 1:53:15Speaker 02

  Maybe a tough thing to pull off the top of your head.

• 1:53:17David Sims?

  Yeah, but now I'm wanting to look at his filmography like, because my thing with Deacons is he worked on a lot of amazing movies. So it's sort of like, yes, he absolutely, you know, was unconscious, fucking like on Lebowski or whatever. You're right. You're like, yeah, no kidding. But like something like that movie House of Sand and Fog, which is like a forgotten piece of shit. And you're like, why does this look so good? And they go, right, Deacons. Like, I like it when he, I mean, the Jesse James stuff is kind of the best. We're like, I think, I don't think that movie is a masterpiece. I think it's very good. But it's like looking at paintings that are, have come to life in a way that isn't AI.

• 1:53:54Griffin Newman?

  I truly think, um, uh, the Company Men.

• 1:53:58David Sims?

  I've never seen that movie.

• 1:53:59Griffin Newman?

  Which is a dog shit movie.

• 1:54:00David Sims?

  Right, terrible.

• 1:54:01Griffin Newman?

  Only one of his movies that kind of looks anonymously shot where I'm like, I don't believe this is Roger Deacons. And outside of that, he's basically the cinematographer version of the like Harry Dean Stanton role. Where it's like, as bad as a movie is, if he shot it, that alone makes it worth watching.

• 1:54:18Speaker 02

  Right, like. Is that the Topher Grace one? Company Men? What's that?

• 1:54:21David Sims?

  Company Men, no, that you're thinking of, um.

• 1:54:23Speaker 02

  In Good Company?

• 1:54:24David Sims?

  Company.

• 1:54:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:54:25David Sims?

  It's, it's like, it's like, uh, Up in the Air.

• 1:54:28Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:54:28David Sims?

  It's like.

• 1:54:29Griffin Newman?

  Company Men is, yeah, directed by the creator of ER.

• 1:54:33David Sims?

  He's not the creator of ER.

• 1:54:34Griffin Newman?

  I'm sorry, the showrunner, the former showrunner.

• 1:54:36David Sims?

  Yes. My head right now is the creator of VR.

• 1:54:38Griffin Newman?

  I'm sorry.

• 1:54:39David Sims?

  Going to get a letter from an estate.

• 1:54:40Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna get sued. It is a movie that is about how hard the recession was for executives. And it's like, Ben Affleck, Tommy Lee Jones and Chris Cooper's guys. And Costner. Well, Costner is the blue collar guy. Costner is, I want to say Affleck's brother-in-law. Who's like, you want me to feel bad for you because you guys have to try to get an entry level corporate job? I build houses. And it's all of them just like playing golf together, being really sad. I think two of them killed themselves. It is like a truly like.

• 1:55:13David Sims?

  It was like a real Oscar play that nobody watched.

• 1:55:16Griffin Newman?

  Wither the execs.

• 1:55:22Speaker 06

  Welcome to 215 Maple Drive. We just put this property on the market. Love the crown molding. Oh, wait until you see the walk-in closets and the bathroom tile. Does it have Verizon FiOS? You know, 100% fiber internet. No FiOS, but it looks like it's got cable. Let's check out the kitchen. No FiOS? Yeah, no, thank you. Don't you want to see the rest? Okay, bye-bye.

• 1:55:46Speaker 03

  Get Verizon FiOS because when you're moving, it's 100% or nothing.

• 1:55:54David Sims?

  The film's good, okay? Um, and let's talk about it. The hot sucker proxy, what haven't we talked about?

• 1:55:59Griffin Newman?

  You have these kind of like multiple hold opens in a row, right? Like the film starts with a couple of sequences that all feel almost standalone introductions and are largely wordless. The opening is all the Bill Cobb narration, talking about the idea of a new year and the promise and what could happen. And the idea that this guy in such a short period of time has gone from the highest, has climbed from the mailroom to the top and now is going to fall all the way down, right? This insane shot where you're like going through models, you're doing these like crossfade dissolves. And then at one point you realize, oh, this one is a real set because you're seeing human Tim Robbins walk out, walk across the ledge to the clock.

• 1:56:42Griffin Newman?

  And then the clock starts spinning backwards and the camera goes up to the sky. You have these triumphant fucking credits, Carter Burwell going ham. This was the one time, I think largely because of the influence of Joel Silver and Warner Brothers, where they were like, we need to test screen this thing early, that they insisted on a temp score. So a lot of this is taken from the Spartacus opera. Uh, do you have the name of the composer there? It's in the dossier. Uh, I will tell you, his name is, uh, Ar- I'm gonna probably mispronounce it. Aram Katurian. But the, uh- Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

• 1:57:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, like saber dancing.

• 1:57:20Griffin Newman?

  That comes from this show. Uh, his Spartacus, but also the main theme of this movie is like repurposed from that. And Burwell was like, I felt handcuffed and then I realized I could explode it and do a lot of stuff from there. But to go straight from like this, like old Hollywood, like triumphant grand orchestra opening to then this boardroom of this guy just fucking patting himself on the back for how successful they've been. Ending with like, in short, folks, we're filthy rich, right? And you're just watching David is going to take a shit, I assume. Um-

• 1:57:55Speaker 03

  The wipes came.

• 1:57:57Griffin Newman?

  The wipes are right?

• 1:57:58Speaker 03

  The wipes arrived.

• 1:57:59Griffin Newman?

  He had them delivered to the bathroom.

• 1:58:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think he had them delivered straight to the bathroom.

• 1:58:03Griffin Newman?

  He had like pneumatic tubes installed in the bathroom so he could get deliveries there.

• 1:58:08Speaker 02

  God, what a great, a great pneumatic tubes movie. I love pneumatic tubes.

• 1:58:11Griffin Newman?

  One of the best.

• 1:58:12Speaker 03

  I mean, the, the entire, just the, the mailroom just being like a boiler room. It, it's, it is so, it's so, it looks so cool.

• 1:58:20Speaker 02

  And everything is so packed with bodies.

• 1:58:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:58:22Speaker 02

  That's just like another, I, I, I love watching any movie made before the 21st century when, uh, when you know, like now everything is just crowd duplication, which fine, but it's just like just seeing so many people in a frame.

• 1:58:32Speaker 03

  And, and interesting looking people on top of that.

• 1:58:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:58:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:58:36Griffin Newman?

  And also it's like, right, that, that's sort of like, uh, first dolly shot, uh, through the mailroom as he's giving the dachy speech. It's like the, the choreography of everyone crossing and the amount of different action and jobs. It's just like mind boggling to think about. And I do think whether or not people consciously clock it, there is like a magic to like- Getting one take where everything goes right that you do feel versus it having to be constructed later.

• 1:59:08Speaker 02

  And it just feels like spectacle when there's a high degree of difficulty.

• 1:59:11Griffin Newman?

  Yes. But I just love that, like, wordlessly, Charles Durning, who to me is one of the goats, in this sequence just shows like this despondency as all these fat cats are like evilly laughing to themselves at how rich they've gotten and just plays this entire arc briefly in like 30 seconds and a couple of closeups of like, what is this life of mine, right? Like, you see him sort of like smile, then look off into the middle distance, out the window, then like kind of ruefully wind his like stopwatch. And I genuinely, the more I watch it, the more I think he only considers killing himself for the first time in that moment. That you're watching a guy talk himself into it of just like, what's the fucking point? I've made it to the top of the mountain.

• 1:59:55Speaker 03

  I have nothing else to do.

• 1:59:56Griffin Newman?

  I built this. I have nothing to prove to anyone anymore. Why not just end it? And then he just so gracefully like runs across the table, digs his heels in, jumps out the window.

• 2:00:07Speaker 03

  I think that's why people watch the Doughboys video feed every week. Yeah, they're waiting for that moment. They're waiting for the Chekhov's banana to go off finally.

• 2:00:17Speaker 02

  The, uh...

• 2:00:20Speaker 02

  It's gonna go off my mouth. The, uh, so that, like, the moment, so he runs out, he sprints. And then it's like the reaction of the boardroom of just everyone is just immediately going on with business as usual, except for the one guy who is just so like, like, he's just bawling and crushed. Like, how could you be like this right now? It's, I love that guy.

• 2:00:40Speaker 03

  Who's also the guy who tries to kill himself later, right?

• 2:00:42Speaker 02

  Kill himself later, yeah.

• 2:00:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, but in the plexiglass is there.

• 2:00:45Griffin Newman?

  It's also a great decision that I think Paul Newman is not visible.

• 2:00:50Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:00:50Griffin Newman?

  In the Durning. So the first time you're seeing Paul Newman.

• 2:00:53Speaker 03

  It's almost like he appeared on Noor, you're right.

• 2:00:55Griffin Newman?

  Is him looking out the window, unsentimental, having watched, who you later find out is like ostensibly his best friend, jumped to his death. But all that crosscut with, uh, wordlessly, Tim Robbins, Norville Barnes going through the like, literal, fresh off the bus, uh, looking at the job board, looking at the classifieds, like, the immediate feeling of this guy coming to a new city with all this hope and optimism and within four minutes, being like crushed by it. And there's such a good little character detail of he, um, he gets his coffee at the diner. Uh, he doesn't realize that the coffee has left the ring with the hood sucker job opening.

• 2:01:36Griffin Newman?

  That like fate is gonna like follow him out the door, but he leaves like two, um, nickels and a penny. And then he looks at his pocket and he's like, oh, should I give him that much? And what he takes back is the penny of like, this guy can't afford to give change. And yet what he's taking back is the lowest amount.

• 2:01:54David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:55Griffin Newman?

  He's a good guy.

• 2:01:56David Sims?

  He's a good guy.

• 2:01:56Speaker 02

  He's all right.

• 2:01:58Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 2:01:59David Sims?

  David.

• 2:01:59Speaker 03

  He gets to be a bit of a jerk later on.

• 2:02:01Speaker 02

  He does. I, I kinda, I mean, like, what's, what's great about his character is that he's not a secret genius. Like he is just like kind of a dope, but he has, he sees things with such clarity and such simplicity that that's, that's his, his secret weapon. That's his advantage. It just allows him to come up with something, um, uh, you know, like the, like the dingus, uh, like the hula hoop. And, uh, but I, but I don't know. Like, I really just like a stupid character. Like, I like a guy who's just like a dumb guy is funny.

• 2:02:30David Sims?

  And he's good at it.

• 2:02:31Speaker 02

  He's very good at it.

• 2:02:32Speaker 03

  Isn't the chance that you, that I always feel like a movie, if it is like a dumb lead character, there's a chance the movie can just be bad. And like, uh, I think it's a higher chance that it's like, who cares about this movie? And there's, I don't, I don't really care about any of the characters and this guy's just an idiot.

• 2:02:47Griffin Newman?

  Well, there's also something too, I think that the character so badly wants to be told that he's a genius. That he accepts a lot of things that don't make sense because they're flattering to him. Like as much as he is not the smartest guy in the world, they make clear that he did go to like a low level business school.

• 2:03:05David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:03:06Griffin Newman?

  And he will say to Musburger, like, shouldn't we be doing this?

• 2:03:09David Sims?

  And, and he's like, the hula hoop is a good idea that he had. And he's like, yeah, when he says, you know, for kids, he's thought about it like this would be good for kids. It's cheap. It's like, you know, a gap in the market. That's probably all he's thought about. He doesn't have any other particular, right?

• 2:03:26Speaker 03

  Well, you brought Forrest Gump and he's just, and another, another movie where it's not the smartest man. But then like is the most noble guy in the, and he's, he is, they show him being kind of an asshole, like you were saying, Sims, at some point in the movie, but like,

• 2:03:39David Sims?

  Comes a jerk.

• 2:03:40Speaker 03

  Still likeable. He's, maybe that's the Robbins charm.

• 2:03:43Griffin Newman?

  I think that's like the sort of, uh, more of the commentary on the like, um, the soul like crushing nature of pursuit of this kind of like endless growth. And like corporate dominance is like, that's what starts to destroy him is the idea that he needs to like, become this kind of titan of business, uh, which he then needs to like, learn the lesson from. But basically the, these plot setup that we are getting to one hour and 55 minutes into a recording.

• 2:04:16David Sims?

  We've talked about a lot of the movie already, but just keep going.

• 2:04:18Griffin Newman?

  We're gonna talk about a lot more.

• 2:04:21Griffin Newman?

  Is that they realize that in his will, Wearing Hudsucker, uh, said that on January 1st, the year after his death,

• 2:04:31Griffin Newman?

  all the stock.

• 2:04:32David Sims?

  No, he didn't say any, he doesn't have a will. It's, it's that because he doesn't have a will, all his stock will be public and he owns 87% of the company. Uh, the blue letter is of course his actual will.

• 2:04:41Griffin Newman?

  Which we'll get.

• 2:04:42David Sims?

  Which we'll get to.

• 2:04:43Griffin Newman?

  But, um, yes, so they need to find a way one week before New Year's, to tank the value of the company so greatly that they can buy back all the stock in advance of January 1st. So the public doesn't take over the company.

• 2:04:56David Sims?

  It's a producer's thing. They need to, right. They need to make it bad to be, to get what they want.

• 2:05:01Speaker 02

  It's a classic meme coin rug pull.

• 2:05:03David Sims?

  It's a classic.

• 2:05:04Speaker 03

  Hot cock coin.

• 2:05:07Griffin Newman?

  Right. And their big play that Musburger puts forward is get some jerk. You need a Hudsucker proxy. You need to put some fucking idiot at the chair at the end of the boardroom who you can blame everything on.

• 2:05:20David Sims?

  Robbins, by the way, should, we should just note, on a crazy run, this is the same year as Shawshank.

• 2:05:27David Sims?

  Same Year is IQ, one of the great movies. Never, never seen IQ.

• 2:05:31Griffin Newman?

  Is Dead Man Walking the following?

• 2:05:32David Sims?

  Dead Man Walking is the following year. It's the same year as Shawshank. Same year as Shawshank. Cause he seems so much young.

• 2:05:37Griffin Newman?

  IQ.

• 2:05:38David Sims?

  Same year as IQ. He seems so much younger in this than he does in Shawshank. He seems like, he seems like an old.

• 2:05:43David Sims?

  Because he's so, you're right. He's so boyish in this. Yeah. And of course Shawshank also is set over so many years and it ages them.

• 2:05:50Griffin Newman?

  There's.

• 2:05:51David Sims?

  Like it's years after The Player. Which I feel like is him sort of graduating into slightly more serious leaning man type. I mean, I guess Jacob's Ladder is that? Will Durham is 88.

• 2:06:03Griffin Newman?

  88. Okay. Player's 91?

• 2:06:05David Sims?

  Player's 92.

• 2:06:06Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:06:07David Sims?

  Um, but Jacob's Ladder in 90, which is a movie I like a lot, uh, that he's the lead of that. I mean, it's a horror movie, but still he's good in that. Uh, Bob Roberts, which is his directorial debut and he's starring is 92 and The Player is that year. So he's like medium hot stuff.

• 2:06:25Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:06:25David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:25Griffin Newman?

  Totally.

• 2:06:26David Sims?

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Uh, and it's like after Dead Man Walking is kind of when it gets weird for him where it's like, he does, he writes and directs Cradle Will Rock, which is a bomb.

• 2:06:39Griffin Newman?

  Let's acknowledge Dead Man Walking. He gets a fucking best director nomination before he's ever gotten an, uh, an acting nomination. So now it's like, are you a genius auteur?

• 2:06:48David Sims?

  Right. A hundred percent.

• 2:06:49Griffin Newman?

  It's the priority. You gotta make another movie.

• 2:06:51David Sims?

  I'm really struggling with it. Cradle Will Rock is a bomb, is sort of the end of him as a director.

• 2:06:58Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:06:58David Sims?

  And then he does Arlington Road, which does kind of rock.

• 2:07:02Griffin Newman?

  It does.

• 2:07:02David Sims?

  And he's good in it. And Mission to Mars. Like there's a couple of movies he's doing where it's like, yeah, Tim Robbins. He's like above the title.

• 2:07:09Griffin Newman?

  Four hire thriller.

• 2:07:10David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:11Griffin Newman?

  Second lead.

• 2:07:12David Sims?

  Anti-trust.

• 2:07:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:13David Sims?

  Remember anti-trust? Where it's like he's evil Bill Gates or whatever.

• 2:07:17Griffin Newman?

  But it's a lot of like big role and Tim Robbins.

• 2:07:21David Sims?

  Yes. Truth About Charlie is that.

• 2:07:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:23David Sims?

  And then he wins the Oscar for Mystic River.

• 2:07:25Griffin Newman?

  And then his career kind of goes.

• 2:07:27David Sims?

  Kind of goes away.

• 2:07:28Griffin Newman?

  Immediately.

• 2:07:28David Sims?

  And obviously he's got a bit of a rep for being a bit of a tough cookie. I guess, but like. Uh.

• 2:07:35Speaker 03

  I didn't know that about Robbins.

• 2:07:36David Sims?

  I think he's a big personality, right? I don't know.

• 2:07:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:39David Sims?

  Maybe I'm.

• 2:07:40Griffin Newman?

  I think he's got a lot of ideas. I know he's one of those guys.

• 2:07:44Speaker 02

  I think that rumor has been circulated by George W. Bush, who is famously taking down a peg in as many plays.

• 2:07:49David Sims?

  He did dare criticize the president.

• 2:07:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:07:53David Sims?

  Uh, no, no, I mean.

• 2:07:55Speaker 03

  You know, my thing, I won't, I won't watch SNL until Kanye apologizes about George W. Bush. That's my thing.

• 2:08:01David Sims?

  You got it. So you want SNL to get Kanye back now?

• 2:08:04Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:08:06David Sims?

  This is the moment to get him back?

• 2:08:08Griffin Newman?

  I'll say this, we're recording this, uh, what's the date today?

• 2:08:11David Sims?

  He also didn't say that on, on SNL, but you're like, but he needs to address it on SNL.

• 2:08:15Griffin Newman?

  They called it back on SNL.

• 2:08:16David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:17Griffin Newman?

  I, I just want to carbon date this. We're recording this on May 12th.

• 2:08:20David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:08:20Griffin Newman?

  I think there is a reasonable chance that by the time this episode comes out, Kanye West has publicly says, George Bush cares about black people more than anyone else. I love George W. Bush. I'm voting for him in the next election.

• 2:08:33David Sims?

  Which would be the, uh, normal thing, the most normal thing we said.

• 2:08:37Speaker 02

  Wow, kind of retarded.

• 2:08:38David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:08:40David Sims?

  Kanye West, you know who people are.

• 2:08:41Griffin Newman?

  Apologize, he's gonna like endorse.

• 2:08:44David Sims?

  Um, yeah, okay. So, uh, hot sucker gets hired. All the mailroom stuff is so, that's the most Terry Gilliam, just being in like the basements and like, oh, with all the tubes and all the yelling and all the guys with the mail.

• 2:08:56Griffin Newman?

  You have.

• 2:08:57David Sims?

  I like the guy who throws the mail into the.

• 2:08:59Griffin Newman?

  What's his name? Patrick Crenshaw, who is blue and old school, I'm pretty sure.

• 2:09:02David Sims?

  Oh, right. Yeah.

• 2:09:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:04David Sims?

  Patrick Crenshaw, uh, Crenshaw as ancient sorter. And indeed he was in old school.

• 2:09:10Griffin Newman?

  Uh, just another good character detail I like where I think, you know, they talked about when, when this film was received, that people complained that the Jennifer Jason Lee character was too harsh and the Robbins character was too dumb. And they were like, why wouldn't you bring both of them towards the center and make them more likeable? And they were just like, we, what do you mean? Like, this is so much more interesting to do it this way, but there are these small details I do like that they put in to be like, he's not an absolute imbecile as much as he's kind of a dope. And he is sort of like thoughtful and the bit with him getting the larger envelope that he doesn't know where to sort because you have like the two names, the senior and the junior and the junior mailbox is smaller. But it's smaller.

• 2:09:54Griffin Newman?

  Right. And he like solves this problem in a pretty considerate way of like, I'll write a note, put it in the dad's mailbox, tell him to give it to the son. Yeah. Like, there is a little indication of like, this guy can make decisions.

• 2:10:04David Sims?

  Doughboys, I have a question. It's not to do with the Hunchback proxy, but I have to ask.

• 2:10:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:10:08David Sims?

  Someone just posted in my work Slack, this question. Guys, is legal seafood in Boston famous, expensive, very good? Can someone explain it to me?

• 2:10:18Speaker 03

  Well.

• 2:10:18David Sims?

  I know you're a legal seafood knower, Mitch.

• 2:10:21Speaker 03

  Why?

• 2:10:21David Sims?

  The only reason.

• 2:10:22Speaker 03

  You're, you're, Wags is just one week away from knowing this and I wonder what your thoughts will be.

• 2:10:26David Sims?

  Wow, you're doing legal seafood on the pod?

• 2:10:29Speaker 02

  We are talking about legal seafoods, separate words and plural on the podcast. Yes, we're doing it for our live show in Boston.

• 2:10:37Speaker 03

  We're doing legal seafoods. A great question. I think that you can feel every way about every, every, you can feel like it's good. You can feel like it's expensive. It is expensive. I mean, there's no doubt about that. But also I think sometimes you can go there and think it's not good. And, and I think the quality is, goes up and down.

• 2:10:59Speaker 02

  But I've never been there, but.

• 2:11:00Speaker 03

  It's supposed to be an elevated chain.

• 2:11:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, it's like a 60 or seven, from my research, like a 60, 70 year old, you know, Boston institution. And so I imagine it's the kind of place that people have a maybe complicated relationship with. Certainly as it's, it's grown and expanded, it is now an airport, you know. What, what's a day? This is going back to something we said a while back on the podcast, but once you start to expand any of these franchises, the, the quality is tough to maintain.

• 2:11:28David Sims?

  So it's not Boston's finest restaurant. This is Katie Weaver, my colleague, the great Katie Weaver.

• 2:11:34Speaker 03

  Is it, is it Boston's best like high end chain?

• 2:11:38David Sims?

  Oh, sure.

• 2:11:39Griffin Newman?

  Well, what would you be the competition for that?

• 2:11:42Speaker 03

  I mean, that's the issue that there is like no longer.

• 2:11:44David Sims?

  They've got that market. I'm aware of their market.

• 2:11:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, that's true. They do have the market.

• 2:11:48Speaker 03

  Boston markets is.

• 2:11:50David Sims?

  Not doing great. A lot of these chains are not doing great. I mean, these sort of like high end.

• 2:11:53Speaker 03

  The local is the local like the 99 restaurant wise you went to. That's like a local chain. Not doing great. Uh, so I say, yes, I think it is.

• 2:12:03David Sims?

  Yes. Okay.

• 2:12:03Speaker 03

  It's a step above. It's the best we got, I guess.

• 2:12:06David Sims?

  Great Katie Weaver shout out, of course, her masterpiece, which is the article she wrote when she went to TJ Fridays and only ate mozzarella sticks for an entire day.

• 2:12:14Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 2:12:14Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 2:12:15David Sims?

  The greatest pieces of journalism in modern internet history. I'm not joking. When it was when TJ Fridays did the unlimited mozzarella sticks, like you can get as many as you want.

• 2:12:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. And she took it to.

• 2:12:25David Sims?

  And Max, her editor told her like, if you do it for an entire day, I'll give you a week off and it's great. You should read it. Anyway, um, back to the HUD sucker proxy, of course.

• 2:12:35Speaker 03

  That sounds like something we, you and I maybe would just do not even for the show.

• 2:12:43David Sims?

  So he gets the blue letter.

• 2:12:46Speaker 03

  He gets the blue letter.

• 2:12:47David Sims?

  Goes up to the top floor to deliver the blue letter. That is how he gets into the Newman's office.

• 2:12:52Griffin Newman?

  Correct. And I do just.

• 2:12:53David Sims?

  That's where we meet the bell.

• 2:12:54Griffin Newman?

  We don't need to call them out, but I do want to call out because the first, you know, seven or eight minutes of the movie play without a ton of dialogue that then it really kicks in at the post. Where they do my favorite kind of like screwball comedy, like there were 10 guys at this table. Each of them, their only function is to do one bit and to heighten that bit. And the bits keep cross crossing over. There's the mezzanine guy. There's the sort of every step he took was a step up, well, until the last one.

• 2:13:25David Sims?

  All of those guys are funny. The guy with the big bushy eyebrows is obviously the funniest. I feel like I've seen that guy in other stuff. Right? Big bushy eyebrow guy.

• 2:13:33Griffin Newman?

  I feel like he's going to come up in other coins as well.

• 2:13:35David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:13:36Griffin Newman?

  But yes, the blue letter is this idea of this like inner HUD sucker universe importance of a letter that must be handed over directly to the senior officer. And no one else wants to take it because if you fuck up a blue letter, you're done. Norville kind of gets stuck with it as like the, the last guy through the door, the newest hire.

• 2:13:55Speaker 03

  It does a great, the movie does a great job where I was like, did they just forget about the blue? I was like, they forgot about the blue letter. I was, I was dumb. I fell for it until the end of the movie and I was like, oh yeah, the blue letter. They got back to it. I, I genuinely worked on me. I was just like, oh, it's just a plot device to get him to where he needed to be.

• 2:14:12Griffin Newman?

  It's that improv principle though of like, the moment to call the thing back is like one minute after the audience has forgotten about it.

• 2:14:19Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:14:19Griffin Newman?

  You need to wait out them keeping track of it.

• 2:14:22Speaker 03

  Yes. And it's great. And it's, it's great.

• 2:14:24Griffin Newman?

  You basically get to a point where you're like, I guess the blue letter was just the excuse to get him into the room. It's not important to the story.

• 2:14:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:14:31Griffin Newman?

  When in fact, it is like the crux of the whole thing. The fact that they say that they got stuck on the script with him on the ledge, makes me think that the blue letter must not have been a part of the story.

• 2:14:42Speaker 03

  Sure. They bring that back as the, as the sort of.

• 2:14:44Griffin Newman?

  That they're like, what is the thing that he can do once he's already about to jump that solves the problem? What is some way that he can like win back the chair? Um, I just think it's very ingeniously.

• 2:14:57Speaker 03

  It's insane. It's truly, I, I asked this before, but I said, is there any time where this movie would be the commercially a success? And you said in 1940s, but if this was released this year, do you think it would be like, uh, I mean, just even, I guess even with.

• 2:15:12David Sims?

  Released with the Coens at their current level of fame.

• 2:15:16Speaker 03

  Yes. Yeah.

• 2:15:17David Sims?

  It'd be more of a hit.

• 2:15:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:15:19Speaker 02

  They've reunited and they're, this is their like in the modern, I think it would be.

• 2:15:23Speaker 03

  It's open up, it's open up against final reckoning.

• 2:15:26Speaker 02

  No, I mean, it's not going to be better than final reckoning.

• 2:15:28David Sims?

  Suplex final reckoning.

• 2:15:29Griffin Newman?

  But it is funny that it does feel like a lot of the times that the Coens have made something that has pitched more as a comedy. At the time, people were like, why are they doing this? This is like a lark. Why can't they be serious? They're supposed to be serious filmmakers. And then those movies tend to like age incredibly well. But the comedies, the straight comedies are usually the ones of theirs that are kind of dismissed in the moment.

• 2:15:52Speaker 02

  Didn't you, I mean, didn't you mention a Lebowski was not, did not perform well on.

• 2:15:56Speaker 03

  Lebowski.

• 2:15:56David Sims?

  People were so mad about it. It wasn't just a bomb. People were like, they just made Fargo. Why are they making this weird bowling comedy? Like what is this? Like it's, yeah, it's very funny.

• 2:16:06Griffin Newman?

  They've had, and like even this coming after Miller's Crossing and Barton Fink, there, they have these multiple arcs of moments where people are like, you were the fucking chosen ones. Like what are you doing?

• 2:16:19Speaker 02

  Did you, did you record the Barton Fink episode yet?

• 2:16:21David Sims?

  We did.

• 2:16:22Speaker 02

  Did you reference the, um, part of The Simpsons?

• 2:16:24David Sims?

  Or the?

• 2:16:25Griffin Newman?

  Of course we did.

• 2:16:26Speaker 02

  You're gonna search out for?

• 2:16:26David Sims?

  Barton Fink.

• 2:16:27Speaker 02

  Go to it.

• 2:16:28David Sims?

  Barton Fink.

• 2:16:29Griffin Newman?

  And the runner of Barton and his friends continually accidentally going to see art house movies. Cause Naked Lunch.

• 2:16:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:16:37David Sims?

  Naked Lunch, yeah.

• 2:16:39Speaker 03

  And then there's, well, there was a dinner with Andre Game, right? Was there an arcade cabinet?

• 2:16:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:43Speaker 03

  Um, can I also just to go back to Final Reckoning for just a second? Wags said that he wished he could, he could, uh, be put in the entity coffin to fly to New York. I just wanted to bring that up that that's your way that you wish you could travel here is the entity coffin.

• 2:16:58Griffin Newman?

  Like checked in as like luggage.

• 2:16:59Speaker 02

  The entity coffin and Dead Reckoning, part one, he does look like, it doesn't, he seem like he emerges out of that. Like having had an incredible nap.

• 2:17:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:17:08Speaker 02

  He seems totally rejuvenated.

• 2:17:10Speaker 03

  I mean, I want to see if I can add the entity onto my CPAP.

• 2:17:13David Sims?

  Morales is looking hot in that.

• 2:17:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:17:16David Sims?

  And it's, you gotta credit the entity. Entity.

• 2:17:18Speaker 03

  I was saying that after one flight with the entity coffin, the entity coffin would be in therapy.

• 2:17:25Speaker 03

  It's the big entity coffin in a sit down therapy. Um, and I also wanted to just point out, I don't know if this is spoilers.

• 2:17:32David Sims?

  Please.

• 2:17:32Speaker 03

  You guys are seeing Final Reckoning tonight.

• 2:17:35David Sims?

  We sure are.

• 2:17:36Speaker 03

  It's very exciting.

• 2:17:37David Sims?

  It is exciting. I hope, uh, I hope you enjoy it.

• 2:17:39Griffin Newman?

  I will say this, I, I don't know if you've talked to them, David. We have two friends who saw it three days ago.

• 2:17:47David Sims?

  Wow. Who's the other?

• 2:17:48Speaker 03

  What's?

• 2:17:48David Sims?

  Erlich is the one I know.

• 2:17:49Griffin Newman?

  And Esther.

• 2:17:49David Sims?

  Right. There are people going to Cannes.

• 2:17:51Griffin Newman?

  And Erlich went thumbs down and Esther went thumbs up.

• 2:17:53Speaker 03

  Oh my God.

• 2:17:54David Sims?

  Split. Erlich said a dingus to, to use a, a hood sucker.

• 2:17:58Griffin Newman?

  I'm just saying, let's put it on the record. By the time this has come out.

• 2:18:01David Sims?

  That's true.

• 2:18:02Griffin Newman?

  We'll have seen it. Our episode will have been released, but like.

• 2:18:04David Sims?

  Did say it had like incredible action. He seemed a little annoyed by.

• 2:18:08Griffin Newman?

  Complained that there weren't enough action sequences. I just also want to say, we saw Dead Reckoning, part one with Erlich. We were like, woo. And he walked out and he was like, that sucks. Cruz fucked it up. And then I talked to him at Ben's wedding.

• 2:18:23David Sims?

  Came around.

• 2:18:23Griffin Newman?

  Last weekend. And he said, it's really disappointing because obviously Dead Reckoning is a masterpiece. And I said, you didn't like it.

• 2:18:30David Sims?

  He does this all the time.

• 2:18:31Griffin Newman?

  And he went, yeah, but I've watched it 15 times since and now I know it's a masterpiece.

• 2:18:35David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, anyway.

• 2:18:36Speaker 01

  Where an exclusive club, do you know this?

• 2:18:38Griffin Newman?

  Married podcasters?

• 2:18:41Speaker 03

  Wives named Nellie.

• 2:18:44Speaker 02

  His wife's not, his wife's not named Nellie.

• 2:18:45Griffin Newman?

  His wife's not named Nellie.

• 2:18:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, her name's Natalie, but it's close.

• 2:18:48Griffin Newman?

  Natalie.

• 2:18:49Speaker 03

  I think you heard Natalie is Nellie.

• 2:18:50Speaker 02

  I was hearing Nellie. I heard it multiple times.

• 2:18:54Griffin Newman?

  Well, now, now I'm realizing the way you say Natalie kinda does sound like Nellie.

• 2:18:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, maybe, maybe that's a skill issue on my part.

• 2:19:01Griffin Newman?

  Lovely wife Natalie. You're, you're kinda doing hood sucker pace delivery.

• 2:19:04Speaker 02

  I kinda, like, especially when I get riled up, I tend to, I go into like a hood sucker.

• 2:19:08Speaker 03

  You are, you're a hood sucker. You are a bit of a hood sucker.

• 2:19:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm a little bit of a hood sucker.

• 2:19:12Speaker 03

  Hey buddy, my, my, my, my, my, hey buddy, my, my, oh god, I can't even do it.

• 2:19:15Griffin Newman?

  Maybe one is the one of us who could successfully exist in a comedy like this.

• 2:19:19Speaker 03

  You, I think you could.

• 2:19:20Griffin Newman?

  For the dialogue.

• 2:19:21Speaker 03

  Hey buddy, my, my, I can't, I can't see, this is the issue.

• 2:19:24Griffin Newman?

  You can't even do an impression.

• 2:19:25Speaker 03

  I can't do an impression of it. I couldn't, the, the, I would get in my head, I can't, I'm a stuttering man. I couldn't, I couldn't, the, the fast, the, the, the rapid fire delivery of this thing, I couldn't do it.

• 2:19:36Griffin Newman?

  Uh, they've set a buzz by this point in the movie, a, a little bit, I love. And this is just like, the, I, have you guys seen Preston Sturgis movies?

• 2:19:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:19:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. So like, my mom, when I was sick and I was a very sickly child and was homesick a lot, would be like, if you're sick in bed, you have to watch like a classic movie.

• 2:19:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:19:54Griffin Newman?

  And would try to make me watch like serious films. And I was a little fucking brat and would usually be like, this sucks, Happy Gilmore. Um, which had not yet been canonized as a classic.

• 2:20:04Speaker 03

  Well, as a child, that feels like work and you're home from school and you're, you know, you're not supposed to have work.

• 2:20:09Griffin Newman?

  Don't make me watch some black and white dog shit. What, what do you think? I'm gonna be a movie podcaster someday? I don't need to watch this bullshit. But Sullivan's Travels, I have this very visceral memory of my mom showing me when I was like 10, uh, ranting and being like, oh fuck, this is funny. This is like an old movie, but it's funny. And then, uh, Film Forum here in New York City would do like Sturgis rep series of all his films every couple of years. So like, over time, I'd seen almost all of them and grew to be like, this is like exactly what I want out of comedy film. These were the funniest movies of all time. And one of the things I love about them is like, every character has this sense of a deep inner life. Every guy feels like you could just follow them for the rest of the movie and something fascinating's going on there.

• 2:20:54Griffin Newman?

  And even if it's a character who exists to just execute one recurring bit, there are weird like- Gives or contradictions in it. And the buzz thing where it's like, is this guy for real? He's got this whole fucking rehearsed routine and he's doing all this choreography with the hat and he's got these rhymes for every single person who steps onto the elevator. And he's like calling out the rhymes with their names and the floors. And then he says, like, uh, miss, Mr. Eleven, uh, floor 37. And he goes 36, he goes, walk down. This idea that Buzz will fucking make people change their routines in order to fit his rhymes.

• 2:21:30Speaker 03

  I, I, that is so on point that there's just, I would love to, I would love to follow Buzz.

• 2:21:36Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:21:36Speaker 03

  If Max came out with Hud Sucker proxies and you followed the story of all the Hud Sucker proxy people proxies plural, I'm saying, and we got to see, I, I would, that's, give me that, give me that, give me that streaming.

• 2:21:48Griffin Newman?

  All the boardroom guys.

• 2:21:50Speaker 03

  The eyebrow guy. There's so many, there's so many characters that you just get in a glimpse of that you want to see more of.

• 2:21:56Griffin Newman?

  Hud Sucker proxy honey bunny.

• 2:21:59Speaker 02

  They get so many beats out of the stakes of the blue letter, including with Buzz in the, the elevator. And just like, that's when he finally is shaken out of his autopilot.

• 2:22:07Speaker 03

  Tell me you're in a blue letter. Ah, you know, I love that.

• 2:22:09Speaker 02

  And then the, the, you know, the woman who ends up on the fainting couch. It's so great.

• 2:22:13Griffin Newman?

  That's like my favorite kind of Coen joke, which for a movie that is so verbal and they are, they will do these visual gags that aren't even about like crazy physicality that are like, this woman's ignoring him. He finally like gets her to notice the blue letter. The woman on the ladder screams and then the next cut, he's in the office and in the background, you see her getting banned.

• 2:22:35Speaker 03

  Funny.

• 2:22:36Griffin Newman?

  Right. And it's like, that's like Simpsons level of like visual, like joke density.

• 2:22:41David Sims?

  Ben, I forgot to ask you if you like this movie. Cause you, you know, I know with a multi guest pod, you tend to take a backseat, but what'd you think of Hud Sucker Proxy? I loved it. You've seen it before. Yeah, I'd seen it before. It's so silly and fun.

• 2:22:54Speaker 01

  It's like a film of theirs that I, I know I saw Fargo first, Big Lebowski, but I think this might've been like maybe the third or fourth of theirs that I saw. And it still holds up. It's a blast.

• 2:23:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:23:07Speaker 01

  And I think you guys keep calling out The Simpsons and that really does feel like the, the energy of The Simpsons is really in this, even down to just like, there's so many fun little like word written jokes, like what comes to mind is when, um, what's his name? Uh, Paul Newman's character towards the end is writing different variants of what the company's new name will be.

• 2:23:36Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:23:37Griffin Newman?

  Very Simpsons.

• 2:23:37Speaker 02

  He lands on Sid Sucker.

• 2:23:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:23:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:23:41Speaker 03

  What was it? What was the burger one? There was a burger. There was something burger.

• 2:23:44Speaker 02

  Uh, Hud, Hudburger?

• 2:23:46Speaker 03

  I think it was Hud, maybe Hudburger. Yeah.

• 2:23:48Griffin Newman?

  But also when you look at like when, uh, Norville's reading the classifieds and when he's looking at the job boards, it's like every single thing written there is funny.

• 2:23:57Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:23:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:59Speaker 03

  Uh, the job board thing is so cool. Do you think anything like that ever existed?

• 2:24:02Griffin Newman?

  I hope so.

• 2:24:03Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:24:04Griffin Newman?

  I want to believe it's based on something.

• 2:24:05Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:24:06Griffin Newman?

  He goes into Musburger's office to deliver the blue letter. Musburger immediately goes like, this guy could be a good fucking.

• 2:24:11Speaker 01

  And then we have, we have the Stitch joke. This is the moment.

• 2:24:14Griffin Newman?

  This is what I'm trying to tee up.

• 2:24:15Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:24:16Griffin Newman?

  But this idea that like Musburger immediately pegs him as like, you're an idiot, then decides that he's maybe a little too smart or a little too dumb or a little too arrogant, like almost passes him over. Another like just beautifully executed, executed visual gag is, you know, he accidentally like starts setting the contract on fire with the cigar.

• 2:24:38Speaker 01

  Him with the foot, his foot in the fiery bucket is so funny.

• 2:24:41Griffin Newman?

  Actually him removing the top of the water cooler.

• 2:24:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:24:46Griffin Newman?

  In one sustained shot, holding it the wrong way, trying to get over there. And the time he makes it over there, it's empty. And then all of this leads to obviously the trash can on fire, him kicking out the window, the hole, the wind sucking him out, Newman falling to try to catch the contract and then Tim Robbins, uh, catching him by his foot. I, the last time I saw this movie before, uh, revisiting last night, saw it at the Metrograph, uh, with friend of the podcast, Michael Taberski.

• 2:25:13David Sims?

  Shout out Michael Toberski.

• 2:25:14Griffin Newman?

  Two Christmases ago.

• 2:25:15David Sims?

  My team coming on the pod.

• 2:25:16Griffin Newman?

  Anytime.

• 2:25:17David Sims?

  Well, not anytime. We should probably set up a schedule.

• 2:25:20Griffin Newman?

  Okay, we'll set up and schedule a time.

• 2:25:22David Sims?

  I guess we'll get the fuck out of here and get Toberski. Bring him in.

• 2:25:27David Sims?

  What if we just never stop talking about this movie, but every few hours we're like, all right, you guys go, someone else is coming.

• 2:25:33Griffin Newman?

  We release it as a Hudson proxy, Dead Reckoning Part One and Hudson Proxy Final Reckoning. Never mind, it's not a Doughboys episode anymore. We changed minds.

• 2:25:44Griffin Newman?

  I, when I saw that time logged, that I think this is my favorite gag, my favorite joke in the history of movies.

• 2:25:52David Sims?

  Yes, I saw that log.

• 2:25:53Griffin Newman?

  And I stand by it as there is, not to overly dissect the frog, right? But the internal logic of the joke and also the like, construction and execution of it of Newman's hanging out a window by his leg, right? We get the extreme close up shot of the pants starting to rip. You cut to Newman's face, oh no, like sort of Wayne's World flashback of him being tailored, measured up.

• 2:26:23David Sims?

  A character that I think is always funny, which is a little tailor.

• 2:26:26Griffin Newman?

  A little.

• 2:26:27David Sims?

  I think that's a great comic character.

• 2:26:29Griffin Newman?

  Tailor.

• 2:26:30David Sims?

  Ah, sir, don't you, you know, like, I just think that's.

• 2:26:32Griffin Newman?

  I love it till make it the pants. Like, he's just so like.

• 2:26:36David Sims?

  Just like the refinement of it and then also the kind of old fashionedness, kind of the, yeah, it's so funny.

• 2:26:42Griffin Newman?

  Now, when I see this for the first time and Charles Durning is third billed in the opening credits, right? And then immediately kills himself.

• 2:26:48David Sims?

  Griff, I, I, I, this is the, my thought when I just watched it is I was sure.

• 2:26:52Griffin Newman?

  I was like, that's such a funny joke to bill someone that prominently and then just have him immediately after the billing, kill himself without saying a single line of dialogue. I know Paul Newman has the end. He's hanging out the window, pants start ripping, flashback to the tailor saying, ah, but the double stitch.

• 2:27:10David Sims?

  Double stitch, why to give it. Pad your account.

• 2:27:13Griffin Newman?

  Right. A single stitch will be fine, right? And you cut back to Newman being like, oh no, fatal mistake. And I go, this is so funny. They're gonna kill Paul Newman right away. Again, they're gonna do this bit a second time. And what a classic movie, like this guy's fatal undoing. He could have saved his own life if not for the fact that he told the guy.

• 2:27:36Speaker 03

  And plot wise, I was like, oh, it makes sense.

• 2:27:38Speaker 02

  Greed.

• 2:27:38Speaker 03

  And like, it makes sense. Like Paul Newman's gonna die and then he will still be the head of the company or whatever.

• 2:27:43Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely. That's what makes him be the head of the company is that Paul Newman, right? And then you cut back to a second flashback.

• 2:27:49David Sims?

  Double flashback. So funny. So funny.

• 2:27:52Griffin Newman?

  And the guy, as you said, it makes no sense, but the guy while sewing, he starts doing the first 5% of the waist with single stitch. As Newman told him, and goes, ah, what the heck? Mr. Musburger is such a nice man. I give him the double stitch for free. And then the pants stop ripping at exactly that point.

• 2:28:11David Sims?

  Do you guys get a double stitch? Which is not a thing, of course, that I've ever heard of before, and I only associate with this movie. But if I get a suit made, should I now be like, make sure double stitch?

• 2:28:21Speaker 03

  In case you fall off, in case you fall out a window.

• 2:28:23David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 2:28:24Speaker 03

  Uh, by the way, uh, check offs banana did go off. I just wanted to let people know.

• 2:28:27David Sims?

  He's, I mean, because we've been podcasting for a long time because our show is ridiculous. Uh, no, I swear to God. Um, okay. So yeah, that's all funny and.

• 2:28:38Griffin Newman?

  I like that it's playing with the fucking language of what we expect the bit to be.

• 2:28:42David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:43Griffin Newman?

  And then undoing it in a way that is just like.

• 2:28:46Speaker 03

  It's so funny and he's not nice to him at all.

• 2:28:48Griffin Newman?

  No, he's an asshole.

• 2:28:49David Sims?

  No, there's no reason for him to do this.

• 2:28:52Griffin Newman?

  Right. He only does it because it's a funny gag.

• 2:28:55Speaker 03

  Yes, it's great. I love it.

• 2:28:57Speaker 02

  And also who's, who's getting that flashback?

• 2:29:00Griffin Newman?

  Exactly.

• 2:29:02Speaker 02

  It's a memory of just the old Taylor.

• 2:29:05Griffin Newman?

  It is interesting to think about like this, the, the Simpsons are so influenced by this same eras of movie comedy that this movie is riffing on. And like things in the Simpsons, like the um, yes guy are like direct quotes of like Sturgis stock company players. A lot of the like big archetypes of Springfield, even that notion of like this character exists to continually come in and just do this one bit.

• 2:29:31David Sims?

  This movie has the Texan businessman for one scene.

• 2:29:34Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:29:34David Sims?

  Who's so funny, which is like a Simpsons character. That's a Simpsons guy like.

• 2:29:38Griffin Newman?

  Right. I wonder like.

• 2:29:39David Sims?

  It's so funny that he says like, oh, you know, people run for cover and he's like, Yeller, you're calling me Yeller? Like they did. That's where he goes to.

• 2:29:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but this notion of like, is there any era in which this movie would have worked? Right? You're like, at this point, there are five seasons of The Simpsons on air, doing a similar style of comedy, and yet I think it is easier for people to swallow in animation.

• 2:30:01David Sims?

  Of course, this movie is off putting to 90% of its audience, like first run, like right away, I think. I think just most people are probably immediately like, no, fuck off. Like, I, right? I'm not saying because it's bad, just because it's a lot.

• 2:30:15Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:30:15David Sims?

  I don't think there's any, I, I can't believe that they ever thought this would be a success. I guess is my thought, like there's.

• 2:30:20Griffin Newman?

  That's the crazier part.

• 2:30:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what's kind of, and, and I guess it's like, you know, so much, so many, so many things like this that are so great and so unique exist because of a mistake. And that, that's just like here, just like the, the wild miscalculation to think that this would connect with mainstream audiences on any level, when it's so dense and so inscrutable.

• 2:30:43Griffin Newman?

  Uh, the, the sight and sound reviewed by the dead man that I quoted earlier, that same guy said that the single funniest joke in the movie is that it was made for $40 million at Warner Brothers with Joel Silver producing. And he was just like, the film is such a failure as a comedy that the only funny thing about it is, why did they think this was worth making?

• 2:31:01David Sims?

  Which is sort of true.

• 2:31:02Griffin Newman?

  But I also like that there is this, not I think like a deliberate self-knowing way, but there's this self-reflexive quality to the movie of like, this film existing is like pitching the hula hoop. Like, how the fuck did this get all the way to the top office?

• 2:31:17Speaker 02

  So what, what you're talking about, so, so yes, they, the, the, there's so much dialogue. It's so, like, just absolutely jam-packed with verbiage up until the moment, like, like two, up through the sequence where he's hanging out, out of the window. And then we go from that straight to, like, next in, in chronologically in the movie is just a, a, a totally non-verbal stretch of just character, like all the, the business laughing, right?

• 2:31:44Griffin Newman?

  Right, which is very Simpsons-y as well. Like, it's like, it's three minutes of cutting from location to location as they groom him to be a CEO and present him to the press, and it's just everyone laughing hysterically.

• 2:31:56Speaker 02

  But this is part of why, for me, this movie is immensely watchable, is because it's not just like. His Girl Friday, you know, style dialogue for its entire runtime. You know what I mean? Like it, it, it, it has these moments where it just kind of like lets itself breathe for a bit. And, uh, and, and just sort of like it, it, it's communicated purely visually.

• 2:32:16David Sims?

  And it's not a long movie.

• 2:32:17Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:32:18David Sims?

  Like, like every Coens movie, it basically like is in that sort of hour 45y range. You know, it's not.

• 2:32:23Griffin Newman?

  Which at this era, most comedies are maybe closer to 90.

• 2:32:28David Sims?

  Sure. I guess it's a little comfortable, comfortably paced compared to Ace Ventura.

• 2:32:34Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:32:35David Sims?

  How long is Ace Ventura actually? Let's find out. An hour 26, that's how you do it.

• 2:32:39Griffin Newman?

  With credits.

• 2:32:40David Sims?

  Yeah, with credits.

• 2:32:42Speaker 03

  We, we just had an hour, we hit one hour over Ace Ventura right now at the time.

• 2:32:46David Sims?

  Sorry Mitch, I'm really sorry.

• 2:32:47Speaker 03

  I'm not sorry.

• 2:32:48David Sims?

  No, no, I, I'm sorry.

• 2:32:50Speaker 03

  Oh, you're.

• 2:32:50David Sims?

  You don't have to be sorry, but I'm sorry.

• 2:32:52Speaker 03

  I'm, we, we knew, we, we, we're coming here to do the long app, baby.

• 2:32:55David Sims?

  Great people come on our show, which I really love and appreciate that they do. And then like you'll some, not you guys.

• 2:33:02Speaker 03

  Not today.

• 2:33:02Griffin Newman?

  Not us, definitely not us.

• 2:33:04David Sims?

  No, yeah, this is just some trash that blew in. No, but like, I mean, you'll just see him, like, I think you'll see it in their eyes sometimes where they're like, oh, huh? This just keeps going, huh? Like, we don't stop.

• 2:33:14Speaker 03

  You brought, you brought in two chair breakers today. Mine's, mine's yet to break, but it will at some point.

• 2:33:19Griffin Newman?

  Thank God we got the double stitch on that.

• 2:33:22Speaker 03

  My chair got the double stitch. Mitch is such a nice guy. Griff making my chair before the.

• 2:33:28Griffin Newman?

  Such a nicer podcast.

• 2:33:31Speaker 02

  I like when you're speaking of runtime. I like when you watch like a, like you put on a movie like Master of Disguise, which is like, the runtime is like 78 minutes.

• 2:33:38David Sims?

  Hell, yeah.

• 2:33:39Speaker 02

  And then you, and then you, and then that includes like long credits and then like a, like a, a post credit scene where it's like, you're still here? What are you doing here? It's like, they had to pad out this runtime this much.

• 2:33:49Griffin Newman?

  We were getting lunch before the record and Space Jam was playing at the TV and Mitch, you were like, I can't believe how long this opening credit sequence is. And I was like, the end credit sequence has like four whole music videos. And the movie with both of these credit sequences is like under 80.

• 2:34:05David Sims?

  I fucking love it when something's short. It's so good.

• 2:34:08Speaker 03

  It was fun. I think it is the, I think, I believe, I think it is the whole, I believe you can fly. My song, right, is the opening credits. It's so, or.

• 2:34:14Griffin Newman?

  They, uh, I, no, that comes in at the beginning. Uh, it, that's, uh, come on and jam and welcome to the jam.

• 2:34:21Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:34:22Griffin Newman?

  But they play that entire song in the opening credits.

• 2:34:24Speaker 03

  It's so long.

• 2:34:25Griffin Newman?

  And credits, I think they do, I Believe I Can Fly Again, they do For You I Will.

• 2:34:29Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:34:29Griffin Newman?

  We did a whole episode.

• 2:34:30Speaker 03

  I also said it was, I said it was a masterpiece compared to the new one, too.

• 2:34:34Griffin Newman?

  No disagreement here. Yeah. David, any wipes updates?

• 2:34:38David Sims?

  No, I bought the wipes. I mean, it's a, it's a package twelve, you know, a pack, it's a box of twelve wipes. It's one of the heaviest things that gets delivered to my house on a regular basis. Wipes weigh a lot.

• 2:34:49Griffin Newman?

  Here's another thing I like in this movie. It is very unclear what the Hudsucker Company does, right?

• 2:34:54David Sims?

  They, they make, they make do hickies, I feel like. They make widgets.

• 2:34:58Griffin Newman?

  Right. But it's also sort of like, they're a business company, right? The opening monologue right before Durning throws himself out the window is just him explaining how huge their business is. But it's basically just defining like, our stock is doing so well, mergers and acquisitions, like all this stuff. They've just become this behemoth that like, society rests upon and yet actually gives nothing back, it seems like.

• 2:35:21Speaker 02

  No, it's, it's like the way like a, you know, like a, a sketch written by a twenty-five-year-old like UCB writer who's never had a job will try to like, set something in a boardroom and approximate the language of the corporate world, but with no actual specifics.

• 2:35:35Speaker 03

  That's, oh, that's what I was gonna say. It's like, yeah, a do hickey, no do hickey company runs that way. Waymo does not have a mailroom where there's multiple mail slots.

• 2:35:45David Sims?

  But that's right. It's like, the metaphor is this is like, society, right? Cause it's like, that's why the clock, I feel like, becomes, it's like, yeah, all of reality is this building, basically. Cause when the clock stops, everything stops.

• 2:35:56Griffin Newman?

  And obviously you don't see that much outside the walls of the building, but you don't get the sense that like, everyone is using and loving Hudsucker products. Like, I think it is pointed that the hula hoop is the first thing that people seem to have any affinity for. Like, this movie is not doing the Wally bit of like, oh, everything has a by and large logo on it, right? There's not this sense of like, oh, Hudsucker has a monopoly on every product. It's all like, they make something, but who knows?

• 2:36:22David Sims?

  It's funny, yeah, it's funny to not see it.

• 2:36:24Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:36:24David Sims?

  It's great. I like, I don't need to see what, what else they're doing. Like the fact that this weird company could make a hula hoop in a, in a bendy straw is great. It's bizarre.

• 2:36:33Griffin Newman?

  And it brings everyone closer together. Well, I, I should say it adds more value to the hula hoop. That's not just that selling so well, but that people are like given joy from it. Minute thirty, like right after the laughing montage, you basically cut straight to John Mahoney.

• 2:36:52David Sims?

  Yeah. So it's a little side plot. I mean, Mahoney never leaves this desk, right? Bill, uh, Bruce Campbell never leaves his chair. The little newspaper, the Argus, the Manhattan Argus.

• 2:37:02Griffin Newman?

  Obviously, uh, you know, all the Daily Bugle stuff in the Raimi Spider-Man movies is riffing on the same kind of like hoxie and newspaper comedies. But I do watch these sequences and especially his first monologue.

• 2:37:17Griffin Newman?

  If not, then since when, you know, all that sort of like back and forth talk feels like him seeing you could do this in a modern comedy and still have it work.

• 2:37:27David Sims?

  You know, Mahoney's amazing in Martin Fink, obviously, and he's amazing in this, and he never did another Coens movie. And it's sort of like, there's a lot of guys like that who the Coens clearly liked and used like two or three times. And then they moved on to new guys and they had, you know, like they were, they were doing something different.

• 2:37:43Griffin Newman?

  Also got sucked into the Frasier sphere. And I think when he was off season, wanted to focus on doing plays.

• 2:37:49David Sims?

  He did a lot of theater.

• 2:37:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:50David Sims?

  Frasier had started in 93, so that's certainly a big thing of, yeah, you know.

• 2:37:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Uh, but he's great. Bruce Campbell looks so fucking handsome in this movie. He looks like comically pretty.

• 2:38:03David Sims?

  Yeah, he looks fantastic, as does Jennifer Jason-Leigh, obviously.

• 2:38:07Griffin Newman?

  But much like the Paul Newman reveal.

• 2:38:09David Sims?

  As does Anna Nicole Smith.

• 2:38:10Griffin Newman?

  Yes, as does Mike Star.

• 2:38:13Speaker 03

  Anna Nicole Smith reveal also great.

• 2:38:16David Sims?

  As really funny, genuinely really funny.

• 2:38:18Griffin Newman?

  But like with Musk burner, it feels like Jennifer Jason Lee appears from nowhere. Right? Like you have this whole extended monologue, all these gruff guys.

• 2:38:26David Sims?

  I like the guys who bet on her Pulitzer, you know, that gag always gets me somewhere where they're like, I won the bet. And then, then the bet gets reversed. That's always funny.

• 2:38:35Griffin Newman?

  And, and you, yes, you have the basic setup of no one has an idea of who this guy is. They need the story and she claims she bets her Pulitzer on it. She stakes it that she will get to the bottom of this. And so she's going to try to honey trap him in order to find out who he is, which then leads to my favorite scene in the movie, which is the light lunch scene.

• 2:38:55David Sims?

  Wow. That's your favorite scene in the movie.

• 2:38:56Speaker 03

  Because is because of the Muncie High.

• 2:38:58David Sims?

  The Muncie High, uh, fight song part.

• 2:39:01Griffin Newman?

  No, that's before that. At the diner.

• 2:39:03Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 2:39:04Griffin Newman?

  I think it is such an ingenious way of them having their cake and eating it too. Of like the funny meet cute that everyone knows how it's going to play out. So rather than have the audience roll their eyes at how cliched it is, you have two characters who basically are just like, we know the fucking rules of this universe. We like sit here all day and we watch these other movies play out that we're never the lead characters in. And we can predict every move of what they're going to do. And they're, they're betting just like the two guys in the, the newspaper office of like, is she going to do this or that? And it's all framed as just these two guys have terrible indigestion, right? It's bookended by these two guys just needing to shit so fucking badly.

• 2:39:48Griffin Newman?

  Asking for bromo and then this like genuinely kind of romantic, like fucking con that she's pulling to trick him into thinking that he's like met a nice girl for the first time.

• 2:39:59Speaker 03

  I've never related to characters more than those two guys.

• 2:40:01Griffin Newman?

  The bromo guys.

• 2:40:02Speaker 03

  Yeah. Me and you now, through this whole podcast, probably. We ate a huge meal before we came here.

• 2:40:08Griffin Newman?

  We had smoked poutine.

• 2:40:09Speaker 03

  We had smoked, we did have smoked.

• 2:40:11David Sims?

  You had the poutine too?

• 2:40:12Speaker 03

  We, we got it for the table. Oh, you got it for the table. I loved, I loved that, that.

• 2:40:17David Sims?

  This was a very funny interaction between you two that Griff is like best poutine in the city and you're like, yes, because in New York city, you really need the best poutine.

• 2:40:26Griffin Newman?

  Famously known.

• 2:40:27David Sims?

  Four hundred most is like, I really come to New York for the Canadian food.

• 2:40:31Griffin Newman?

  I look, I could amend that.

• 2:40:33David Sims?

  You like poutine because it's french fries with a bunch of shit on it.

• 2:40:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's the best food. They cracked the code on that one. No, I could have amended that statement.

• 2:40:40David Sims?

  I'm like, guys, guys, do you want me to like plug you into like the best Malaysian food or whatever? Griff's like, if you want poutine, if you want poutine, just put micro, you know, micro and cheese on your fries in the hotel.

• 2:40:51Griffin Newman?

  You need curds, you need the curds.

• 2:40:52David Sims?

  Yeah, you need the curds. I love a curd.

• 2:40:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:40:54David Sims?

  To be clear, you do like the Muncie High Cheer. I'm sure you do. I know you do. Yeah, it just came at a different time.

• 2:41:00Griffin Newman?

  To your point, uh, they.

• 2:41:02David Sims?

  I can't believe you guys haven't blown up this bathroom if you guys had fucking Myland poutine. That's my Chekov.

• 2:41:09David Sims?

  My Chekov gun.

• 2:41:10Griffin Newman?

  Chekov's turd.

• 2:41:11David Sims?

  The Chekov's turd. They, he almost called it that. It was almost Chekov's turd. And then he was like, you should make it a gun or something.

• 2:41:19David Sims?

  Joel Silver was there. Chekov, make it a gun. Uh, sorry, I was talking about Muncie, the Muncie High.

• 2:41:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, that's, that's the next scene, right? Like, cause, cause she, she feigns, feigns fainting and then he carries her upstairs and then they have that whole interaction.

• 2:41:34David Sims?

  Claims to be from Muncie. She gaslights him into, uh, hiring her. Griffin said to my point, and I thought I was gonna say something cool about something I said and then.

• 2:41:42Griffin Newman?

  No, that I like that the arc is sort of her realizing, being charmed by his sincerity.

• 2:41:49David Sims?

  She's like, he's a small town rube. And by the end of this, she's like, he's a small town rube. You know, it's like she's, she understands what's good about him.

• 2:41:56Griffin Newman?

  It's also what I think Jennifer Jason Lee gets really right in her performance. I think a lot of people misunderstood at the time of like, oh, she's doing this weird affectation of doing this very stylized performance. It's very throwbacky. And she seems a little uncomfortable in doing it, but the whole point of the character is that's a fucking act, right? That like she needs to do this whole routine of coming in with these fast talking monologues and like doing prop comedy, taking the cigarettes out of guys mouths. So that everyone takes her seriously in the office. And it's not like what she really wants is just to get married and have kids. But this whole movie is kind of circling back to this idea that I think is like important for both of the Coen brothers being weird versions of wife guys.

• 2:42:38Griffin Newman?

  That they're sort of like, what's the, like, if you just fucking chase success.

• 2:42:44Griffin Newman?

  Like as a end to all means than like, what are you left with? That all of these characters are sort of like, if you don't ever find anything that actually makes you happy, you're gonna end up on the top floor of a fucking building when I throw yourself out a window. It doesn't matter what you accomplish. And that they both cut through each other in that kind of way. Uh, and it's like Hud sucker's final message that he comes back and delivers him of like, this is what ruined my life. Um, but yeah, that, that she is like slowly, even though the person she is with him is someone she's pretending to be, it starts to become a more honest version of her because he becomes the one person she can drop the act with.

• 2:43:24Griffin Newman?

  It starts with her doing a different act and then as it goes on, it starts with her becoming like an actual genuine person with him.

• 2:43:30Speaker 03

  She takes, she takes, I mean, I was just, I was thinking of how this performance reminds me a bit of hateful eight a little bit and just the big, it's another, another big, it's another big.

• 2:43:41Griffin Newman?

  Punching her in the face.

• 2:43:42Speaker 03

  And just another big character, not that there's a similar thing of she's a different person or anything like that, but.

• 2:43:48Griffin Newman?

  Look, especially in the nineties, I feel like she was one of those actresses that would get credit a lot for being quote unquote brave. And even in the eighties too, where it was like, oh, she does things that other big movie stars wouldn't want to do. And that's usually code for women playing like unlikable characters, getting naked, doing extreme violence, you know, all these things. It's never felt like that's something she does for like deliberate provocation. I just think she's not protective of her image in that way.

• 2:44:19Speaker 01

  She's a great actor.

• 2:44:20Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, she rules.

• 2:44:21Speaker 01

  Love her.

• 2:44:22Speaker 03

  A big part of the reason why the movie works, I think.

• 2:44:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:44:25David Sims?

  Yeah. And I do agree with you that like someone like Winona might feel more pastichey, a little more playing dress up, right? Cause she's a little younger and she's a little greener.

• 2:44:34Griffin Newman?

  I also think there is like an inherent sadness to Jennifer Jason Leigh. That serves the performance well. Yeah. Even when she's playing very big. Um, but yes, now she's implanted as his secretary and he's at the top of the company and he's going to make his big play, which is sell the hula hoop.

• 2:44:53Speaker 01

  He has nothing on his schedule except for like, like talking at like a kindergarten.

• 2:44:59Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:45:00Speaker 01

  Like he just is sitting in this giant office doing fucking nothing all day.

• 2:45:04Speaker 03

  It was very much a podcaster's schedule.

• 2:45:09David Sims?

  It would be funny if as podcasters, we had to like clock in and out of work, but a lot of our work is just like sitting there.

• 2:45:17David Sims?

  Wow, 12 hours this week.

• 2:45:23David Sims?

  Still complaining. People would be so mad at us. Um, so what else?

• 2:45:27Griffin Newman?

  I've been getting that conversation with people where they're like, and what did you do with the rest of your week? And I'm like, I don't know, read the comments.

• 2:45:33David Sims?

  Well, I had to watch the movie for the podcast. Yeah, that's like an hour 45. And I had to find out where to rent it. That was five minutes.

• 2:45:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Also, my co-host has three kids, so my life is pretty busy.

• 2:45:45David Sims?

  I have so many fucking kids, it's crazy.

• 2:45:48Griffin Newman?

  Right. So if you do the math, that's like me having a kid.

• 2:45:53David Sims?

  Is that what you're thinking about? Is that what, is that what, is that the time crunch? I am frequently thinking about my children. Yes, that is part of the time crunch for sure. Of course. Tonight, I'm seeing Mission Impossible, so it's a night out. It's a, it's already in the cow.

• 2:46:05Griffin Newman?

  And also we're having a gentleman's feast.

• 2:46:06David Sims?

  We sure are afterwards. I mean, we're, we're doing it all today. It's quite a day for me today. Um, but I do have three children. One of them just started crawling. Ah.

• 2:46:16Griffin Newman?

  One of the twins?

• 2:46:17David Sims?

  Yeah. Uh, uh, Bebop. We call them Bebop. Bebop and Rocksteady.

• 2:46:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. It, do you sense jealousy?

• 2:46:26David Sims?

  I, the, uh, Rocksteady is right behind him. I think Rocksteady is, Rocksteady's just got a slightly more, he's happier, like chilling.

• 2:46:34Griffin Newman?

  Is Bebop the bigger one or the smaller?

• 2:46:36David Sims?

  The bigger one.

• 2:46:37Griffin Newman?

  He, he has fraternal twins, but there's a bit of a size difference.

• 2:46:41David Sims?

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. One of them's bigger.

• 2:46:42Griffin Newman?

  In a way that is funnier, in my opinion.

• 2:46:44David Sims?

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they've got very different vibes. They do. They do. Can I tell you something? We'll be on a podcast in the future. It could be.

• 2:46:51Griffin Newman?

  One's kind of more of a like pig man. The other one's got kind of like a rhino thing.

• 2:46:56David Sims?

  What were you gonna say? I was gonna say, I, I've also been called Bebop and Rocksteady by people before, dunking on me. So I have that in common with them. Bulk and Skull, of course, I brought up on a recent episode from the Power Rangers, you know, just like, that was like, in the nineties, the children needed to see two large fools, like.

• 2:47:13Griffin Newman?

  Who would literally like, like kunk heads together.

• 2:47:15David Sims?

  Right. Who go, oh, whoa, right. And they would like, be plodding them 20 minutes of them trying to buy groceries or something.

• 2:47:22Griffin Newman?

  Well, it's, he man has my favorite version of that, which is the guy's name is Too Bad. And it's a two-headed henchmen where they curse them by putting them together and they punch each other in the face. No, I don't think we should go in there, boss. Hey, come on.

• 2:47:37David Sims?

  Well, so he invents the hula hoop. I mean, come on, let's, let's keep it going. He invents the hula hoop. We talked about that montage, but it is, I agree with Patrick's assessment. It's an incredible film within the film.

• 2:47:47Griffin Newman?

  But you have, before that, you get to the ball with Peter Gallagher, which is when they-

• 2:47:53David Sims?

  Is that before the hula hoop?

• 2:47:54Griffin Newman?

  It is, yes.

• 2:47:55Speaker 02

  The fancy Christmas ball.

• 2:47:56David Sims?

  Oh, right, because that's where the investors are yelling at him. Peter Gallagher, one of the great singers, incredible, incredible singer, obviously, like, now everyone knows him as Sandy Cohen.

• 2:48:06Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:48:06David Sims?

  But he's one of Broadway's great leading men, beautiful.

• 2:48:08Griffin Newman?

  Voice of an angel, and also owner of two of Hollywood's greatest eyebrows.

• 2:48:12David Sims?

  He does have those pussy willows.

• 2:48:14Griffin Newman?

  He was on Conan and he referred to them as the Gallagher pussy willows. And it is a term that lives in my head all the time.

• 2:48:21David Sims?

  He's the best. And I've genuinely heard that he's, he's quite a nice guy, which is always great to hear, but.

• 2:48:28Griffin Newman?

  But yes, it's Newman's trying to walk-

• 2:48:30David Sims?

  His guys and dolls in the early 90s. I used to listen to it a lot when I was a kid. He was Sky Masterson, who's amazing.

• 2:48:36Griffin Newman?

  He's playing a kind of Dean Martin-y guy.

• 2:48:38David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:48:38Griffin Newman?

  Newman is trying to walk Robbins through sabotage, right? Like, he starts saying, like, "Keep your mouth shut and don't respond to any questions," you know, and then it's like, "Actually, never mind, reverse what I said." He's trying to give him the advice he would actually give to someone he wants to succeed and then realizes-

• 2:48:54David Sims?

  Right, that he needs him to fail.

• 2:48:56Griffin Newman?

  Right, and so Robbins, like, steps and embarrasses himself in front of a bunch of people, says something offensive in, like, Swedish, and then goes out in the balcony with Jennifer Jason-Leigh and they have this bonding moment, where it actually feels like they cut through to each other, they kiss for the first time, it's like explosion, score swells, and then you, like, hard cut to, it is, this movie being so mathematically constructed in a way it's Coen Brothers movies are, hula hoop is explained at one hour exactly. It's like, at the one hour mark, they kiss, and then you go out from the blueprint in the office and for the first time, you know what the circle is.

• 2:49:31David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:49:31Griffin Newman?

  And now here's the thrust of the second half of the movie.

• 2:49:33David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:49:35Speaker 02

  He's really hooting the fuck out of it for that whole scene, too.

• 2:49:38David Sims?

  The neck.

• 2:49:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:49:40David Sims?

  Ankle.

• 2:49:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:49:41Speaker 03

  Has, has, has he already been reported as being a dummy in the newspaper at this point, or?

• 2:49:46David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lee's already dragged him through the mud.

• 2:49:49Speaker 03

  Because, because there's, there's a-

• 2:49:50David Sims?

  He's an imbecile.

• 2:49:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, and imbecile heads HUD sucker, and then the, the sub headline was, "Not a brain in his head," and I really liked that. It was very Simpson-y.

• 2:50:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, imbecile heads HUD sucker is like right up there with extra, extra Todd smell.

• 2:50:07David Sims?

  Maybe newspapers should bring that back. Just like, we've looked into it and this guy's a dummy. Like, it was just like, that's what the story is?

• 2:50:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's, there's the, just, just that balcony scene. Cause yes, there is, there is, there's some newsroom sort of back and forth that we, that we kind of, uh, you know, uh, are breezing by, but, but on that balcony, there, there have like some more dialogue back and forth. And there is another of those moments where, like she's starting to be like, he's got the shiner from the being punched by the Finnish guy. They're,

• 2:50:36Speaker 02

  they're talking in, uh, about like what you could have been in a past life. And, you know, he's, he says, uh, he says karma. Uh, but they also is they, the part, uh, where she, like, they're talking about, uh, you know, I think you'd be a gazelle or, you know, maybe an ibex. Uh, and like either way, like, could I call you deer? And he like cracks himself up, but it's so adorable. And then she, then she starts talking about like, oh, but maybe it was, uh, I was a hard sort of nosed reporter, sort of like, sit like city girl, like, like tries, like, projects about herself, right? She's talking about herself in a past life, herself in a current life, if that was her in a, in a past life. And he's like, no, that kind of person would come back as a wildebeest or a, you know, like, uh, it's, I don't know. I, I just really love all the, the, the dialogue through there. And it's just such great,

• 2:51:20Speaker 02

  it, it just like allows her to play the subtext so strongly and she's so effective at it.

• 2:51:25Griffin Newman?

  I also think there's something in both of them have these kind of like, preconceived biases against the type of person the other one is, right? That she's this like hard boiled city girl who thinks a country bumpkin is naturally an idiot. And he thinks a person like that must be like a heartless cynical monster. And that they're in having these weird conversations, they both kind of quietly realize that like at their core, they are sort of the same in the things they value and what they care about. And, uh,

• 2:51:58David Sims?

  And that sincerity, like you were saying.

• 2:52:00Speaker 03

  There's the sincerity in the movie.

• 2:52:02Griffin Newman?

  There is.

• 2:52:03Speaker 03

  There it is. Um, that to that piece of shit reviewer from the 90s who's passed away, rest in peace. So died tragically, but still.

• 2:52:13David Sims?

  I don't, I don't know anything about him.

• 2:52:14Griffin Newman?

  Um, he gets them to approve the, the hula hoop and you have this unbelievable montage.

• 2:52:19David Sims?

  It's a hit.

• 2:52:20Griffin Newman?

  And like you talk about like a sketch comedy logic business company. The idea there being an entire room that's just how much will it cost on like a big banner up top? And guys going back and forth and just naming prices.

• 2:52:33David Sims?

  I think it's really funny. I think it's really funny.

• 2:52:35Griffin Newman?

  Dummy that they.

• 2:52:36David Sims?

  The guy adds the one.

• 2:52:37Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:52:37David Sims?

  Dollar like that is, that does seem how like.

• 2:52:40Griffin Newman?

  Like stroking their chin and that, uh, when you have the, the pitch room guys trying to come up with the name. The secretary at the front, every time they cut to her is reading a different like mammoth book. She goes through war and peace and Anna Karenina. Yeah.

• 2:52:54David Sims?

  Funny, funny stuff.

• 2:52:56Speaker 03

  I don't know. Like, I like when the, when it's taking off and the price they, they just, the price goes up and up and the, the new sticker. It's great. All that stuff is fantastic.

• 2:53:04David Sims?

  I do think the second half, it's really less than half, but is a little less propulsive and awesome than the first.

• 2:53:12Griffin Newman?

  Sure. Cause it's the fall.

• 2:53:13David Sims?

  Yes. And it's like, the comedy is still there. And I think the ending of this movie is wonderful, like just visually and dynamically and like the big fight with the janitor and Bill Cobbs and all that. And like the gears, all that's great. I do, I just felt myself drifting slightly. I'm so engaged by everything up to the hula hoop.

• 2:53:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:53:34David Sims?

  Uh, and it is partly because like you need him to suddenly become a jerk. So now he's this kind of withdrawn character. And you need him to not do anything. The straw bit's funny. Like, you know, there's stuff that's funny, like the, the asides.

• 2:53:47Griffin Newman?

  Well, I also like that there's sort of.

• 2:53:48David Sims?

  Steve Buscemi as a beatnik is funny.

• 2:53:50Griffin Newman?

  Acknowledging the like, uh, the life cycle of fads, right? That this guy is so ready to coast off the success of the hula hoop for the rest of time. And then you're already seeing it fade, right? You have the original montage, then you have the John Goodman newsreel of like this is.

• 2:54:06David Sims?

  He's credited as Carl Munt.

• 2:54:08Griffin Newman?

  His.

• 2:54:08David Sims?

  His character in Barton Fink, the serial killer, not the nice guy.

• 2:54:13Griffin Newman?

  And he makes the joke of like, I don't see what all the hoopla is about. And then you see him try it a second time and already it's starting to fall off. And it's when you get to Buzz pitching him the straw. He like needs to shit on Buzz in order to reaffirm his own greatness. Like he goes like, this is moronic. You see, the thing that makes an idea like, I don't know, the hula hoop. So great. We're like, it's this thing that these guys need to do, which is like, tell you why they're so smart.

• 2:54:39David Sims?

  Nah, capitalism's good. You're wrong.

• 2:54:41Speaker 02

  And he hits him with the, you know, we don't crawl here at a HUD sucker with the same Paul Newman. It's just a great callback. I, I, I like. Yeah, it, it, it's interesting. What you say about the second half. I really do like the second half of this movie.

• 2:54:57David Sims?

  Alright, I'm wrong.

• 2:54:57Speaker 02

  No, no, I'm not. I'm not even saying I disagree with you. I'm, I'm more trying to like, like interrogate in my own head is like, is it, is it a little bit less fun? And is that just inherent to the, the, what you were saying of just like it being the, yeah, that it being the fall. But, but, but one thing I will say is like, there is an overall joke to this movie, which is just how compressed the timeframe is. That absolutely everything is happening within a 30 day time limit. And that, that, you know, he's going from mailroom where he's being, he's getting from his orientation in the mailroom to being company president in the same day. Because somewhat because the company CEO committed suicide earlier that morning.

• 2:55:32Speaker 03

  What's the bellboy on the ride up that he was in the mailroom in the bellboy? And then on the ride down with the bellboy, he is the pres- he's basically the president. It's, it's very funny.

• 2:55:40Griffin Newman?

  And the news hasn't even reached Buzz yet.

• 2:55:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, Buzz doesn't know.

• 2:55:42Griffin Newman?

  Like, have that blue light a go. It's another one of my favorite jokes in the movie is when he brings Jennifer Jason Lee back and he's like, I'm gonna get you a job here at the company. And I know just where there's an opening and he buzzes down to the supervisor in the mailroom.

• 2:55:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:55:56Griffin Newman?

  And he goes like, hello, this is Norville Barnes. He goes, Barnes, where are you? I've been waiting for you four days. And he goes, I don't know if you heard, but I'm the president of the company now. And he goes, I don't care if you're the president of the company.

• 2:56:07Speaker 02

  Then he emphasizes president.

• 2:56:09Griffin Newman?

  Right. That it's just the same thing repeated back. Yeah.

• 2:56:12Speaker 03

  Also, there was, there was one thing we skipped over. It was a pretty good Eisenhower cameo.

• 2:56:18David Sims?

  That is so funny.

• 2:56:20Speaker 02

  I thank you and my wife thanks.

• 2:56:22David Sims?

  Mrs. Eisenhower is proud of you.

• 2:56:24Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:56:24David Sims?

  Because it it's it just it would be it's just so funny that it's a picture of him like that just they just slide in the picture of him.

• 2:56:31Speaker 02

  It's also so funny that like 20 plus years later, Aaron Storkin basically tries to do the earnest version of that at the end of being the Ricardos.

• 2:56:40David Sims?

  That is what happens. You're right.

• 2:56:41Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:56:42David Sims?

  Where he's like, Jagger Hoover is like, I'm so, there's nothing weird about me.

• 2:56:46Speaker 02

  I love Lucy. And then after applause.

• 2:56:50David Sims?

  Eisenhower rocks. What a weird guy.

• 2:56:53Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, I like Ike. I'm a fan.

• 2:56:55David Sims?

  Yeah, I like Ike too.

• 2:56:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:56:56David Sims?

  Great.

• 2:56:57Speaker 01

  What's your favorite thing he did?

• 2:56:59David Sims?

  Are you asking me specifically? Mississippi schools is probably the genuine answer or winning the war, but but he did some bad stuff too, or warning us about the military industrial complex, which he did.

• 2:57:11Speaker 02

  I was a fan of his of the White House physician announcing he had like an unremarkable shit.

• 2:57:15David Sims?

  Wait, really? He was just like, yeah, I looked at it. Nothing special.

• 2:57:18Speaker 02

  There was like a whole thing of like he had a he was sick and they were like the they they were being very cagey about it. And so the White House released like the physician released an extremely explicit letter, letter, just like sort of detailing what what had happened and what was unremarkable about it.

• 2:57:33David Sims?

  Sorry, Arkansas. Yeah, no, Eisenhower, like when he was leaving the office, he was like, by the way, like, it's kind of fucked up that the military and like big business are kind of like, you know, turning into this big evil thing that's gonna like kind of take over society. And I call it the military industrial complex. Anyway, I'll see you later. And everyone was like, I feel like he's right about that.

• 2:57:53Speaker 02

  He was on point with that one.

• 2:57:54David Sims?

  And then like no one did anything about it.

• 2:57:56Speaker 03

  You know what I like about him? I like him in this movie. I don't know.

• 2:57:58David Sims?

  I just, I like his hood sucker work.

• 2:58:00Speaker 03

  I don't know too much of his other work.

• 2:58:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm not really that familiar, but he's great.

• 2:58:05David Sims?

  I like that picture where he looks really fabulous. Do you know the picture I'm talking about?

• 2:58:08Speaker 02

  Which one?

• 2:58:09David Sims?

  Uh, there's this picture where he's like serving and the internet got kind of obsessed with it.

• 2:58:14Speaker 02

  Oh, I never saw this get memed. That's a great picture.

• 2:58:16Speaker 03

  Oh, that's great. That is a great photo.

• 2:58:18David Sims?

  A picture of him in his uniform.

• 2:58:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. Do you guys know about the the Peter Principle?

• 2:58:22David Sims?

  Explain.

• 2:58:23Speaker 01

  And now it was originally on the clock.

• 2:58:24David Sims?

  Now I did do an Eisenhower bit.

• 2:58:27Griffin Newman?

  It was a

• 2:58:28David Sims?

  Family Guy thing?

• 2:58:29Griffin Newman?

  A book that was originally meant to be satirical.

• 2:58:31David Sims?

  Isn't it, it's like, uh, the stupider you are, the higher you rise and, but it's something like that, right?

• 2:58:36Griffin Newman?

  It's basically saying that everyone will succeed to a level of relative incompetence at the higher level companies.

• 2:58:43David Sims?

  You get promoted to beyond your competency and there you shall stay.

• 2:58:48Griffin Newman?

  That basically everyone gets over promoted like one time in organizations like this, past their actual ability. And then rather than ever getting demoted or fired, the people just stay there. So the higher up you get, the worse people are, because that's where people kind of like hit their limit.

• 2:59:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've heard of this phenomenon. I haven't heard the, the Peter Principle specifically.

• 2:59:07David Sims?

  There was also the Dilbert Principle, isn't there?

• 2:59:09Griffin Newman?

  Tell me about it.

• 2:59:10David Sims?

  I don't know, but wasn't that?

• 2:59:11Griffin Newman?

  All neckties must go.

• 2:59:12David Sims?

  Oh, I'm sorry. It actually, remember how like, first it was like, they just put out Dilbert books of the, of the strips.

• 2:59:18Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:59:19David Sims?

  But then Scott Adams.

• 2:59:19Griffin Newman?

  We would read them and go, God, this guy sounds like such an alpha. Whoever's writing these.

• 2:59:25Speaker 02

  That he's got a chiseled torso.

• 2:59:28Griffin Newman?

  The guy drawing Dilbert must fuck so good.

• 2:59:31David Sims?

  But then he would also write like management comedy books.

• 2:59:35Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:59:35David Sims?

  Like, like textbooks.

• 2:59:36Griffin Newman?

  That was actually the early warning sign.

• 2:59:39David Sims?

  The Dilbert Principle.

• 2:59:40Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:59:40David Sims?

  And it must have been like joking about like a riff on the Peter Principle, right?

• 2:59:44Griffin Newman?

  We should have known at that moment, the second that the guy took the success of the comic strip to be like, but actually Dilbert's serious.

• 2:59:50David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:59:50Griffin Newman?

  I have things I want to say about corporate culture.

• 2:59:52David Sims?

  I know he's, you know, a bit of an online figure, Mr. Scott Adams. Was he always a weirdo or is he one of those classic like 10 years of Twitter, rotten his brain and all that?

• 3:00:02Griffin Newman?

  Always bad has only gotten worse.

• 3:00:04Speaker 02

  He was also always super online. Like, he was like a penjollette.

• 3:00:08David Sims?

  Before no one was online, right?

• 3:00:09Speaker 02

  Very, very early internet, like Usenet, you know, Us groups.

• 3:00:12Griffin Newman?

  But he wasn't like a, like a Dennis Miller hard swing after nine 11 guy.

• 3:00:17David Sims?

  Yeah, true. Ron Silver.

• 3:00:18Griffin Newman?

  Graham Linehan or any of those guys who would like have a moment.

• 3:00:21David Sims?

  Something up with that?

• 3:00:23Griffin Newman?

  He went from being funny to really funny.

• 3:00:26David Sims?

  Dilbert, the cartoon.

• 3:00:27Griffin Newman?

  Good.

• 3:00:28David Sims?

  Incredible opening credits.

• 3:00:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:00:30David Sims?

  One of the best.

• 3:00:31Griffin Newman?

  That was Larry Charles ran that show.

• 3:00:33David Sims?

  It's pretty funny.

• 3:00:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:00:34David Sims?

  Dilbert was Dilbert was good.

• 3:00:35Griffin Newman?

  But yeah, great theme song, great animation in the opening.

• 3:00:39Speaker 02

  I like Dogbert.

• 3:00:40David Sims?

  Dogbert's funny. He's a dog with glasses. It's like mean.

• 3:00:44Speaker 03

  Is there?

• 3:00:45David Sims?

  There's Catbert. Oh, you never saw Catbert?

• 3:00:47Speaker 03

  I never, I didn't know about Catbert.

• 3:00:48David Sims?

  My whole thing is that I would read those comics and Catbert is the HR guy like that. And like, and I'm just like, what the fuck was like 11 year old David being like, ah, yeah, HR always on your ass. Like, what did I, why was I?

• 3:01:02Speaker 03

  Catbert.

• 3:01:03David Sims?

  Remember Catbert?

• 3:01:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I remember Catbert.

• 3:01:04David Sims?

  Yeah. And then there was Ratbert.

• 3:01:06Speaker 02

  I can't remember Ratbert specifically.

• 3:01:08David Sims?

  And then there was a dinosaur.

• 3:01:09Speaker 02

  Okay. So this, so this, they, they started adding more new characters as the.

• 3:01:15David Sims?

  Well, I think a lot of the, the, initially Dilbert was heavier on the, the animals. And a lot of them got kind of pulled back.

• 3:01:22Speaker 02

  Oh, well, interesting.

• 3:01:23David Sims?

  Built out the humans. And there's, then there's the little cast. There's the boss and the lady with the triangle hair and all that.

• 3:01:31Griffin Newman?

  Jason Alexander was Catbert. Chris Elliott was Dogbert.

• 3:01:34David Sims?

  I'm sure they were great.

• 3:01:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. And Daniel Stern was Dilbert.

• 3:01:38David Sims?

  Yes.

• 3:01:39Speaker 03

  Right.

• 3:01:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:01:40Speaker 03

  That's a damn good cast.

• 3:01:41Griffin Newman?

  Damn good.

• 3:01:42Speaker 03

  Bring it back.

• 3:01:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:01:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, bring it back.

• 3:01:44Speaker 03

  Money flowing to Adam.

• 3:01:46David Sims?

  Like, is Dilbert still running? Like, can I read a new Dilbert?

• 3:01:49Griffin Newman?

  Great question.

• 3:01:49David Sims?

  And he like writes it?

• 3:01:51Griffin Newman?

  Great question.

• 3:01:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, that is a great question.

• 3:01:52David Sims?

  And it's not insane?

• 3:01:54Speaker 03

  It has to be insane.

• 3:01:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:01:55Speaker 03

  There's no way it's not insane.

• 3:01:57David Sims?

  Is he just like phoning that in and then all day he tweets? But then Dilbert is just like the pointy haired boss being like, do those emails and over it's like, ah, fuck this.

• 3:02:05Griffin Newman?

  Okay, here's a question. Would this movie have been a hit?

• 3:02:09Speaker 03

  If Dilbert was the star?

• 3:02:10Griffin Newman?

  If three years later, the script was repurposed into a live action Dilbert movie? That it's basically the same film, but mapped onto the Dilbert cast.

• 3:02:18Speaker 03

  So Paul Newman is playing, uh, Catbert, I guess?

• 3:02:21Griffin Newman?

  Pointy haired boss?

• 3:02:22Speaker 03

  Oh, pointy haired boss.

• 3:02:23David Sims?

  Oh, pointy haired boss.

• 3:02:24Speaker 03

  So I clearly don't know Dilbert as much as you guys do. I'm shocked that you guys know as much as you do about Dilbert.

• 3:02:30David Sims?

  Oh, my God, Dilbert.

• 3:02:31Speaker 02

  Big comic strip.

• 3:02:32David Sims?

  There is no Dilbert, uh, you know, new Dilbert cartoons. And if you go to the website, uh, there is a dropdown. Why did Dilbert get canceled? If you believe the mood news, it's because I'm a big old racist. Context, no news about public figures is ever true.

• 3:02:46Speaker 03

  Jesus.

• 3:02:47David Sims?

  So, you know, he's doing great.

• 3:02:48Speaker 03

  He's doing all right.

• 3:02:49David Sims?

  Hudson or proxy Griff anymore on this?

• 3:02:52Griffin Newman?

  Anymore on this? No, you have like the rapid fall. The only sequence every time I watch this movie that I bump on and question if it's a mistake is the weird Tim Robbins dream sequence that

• 3:03:06Speaker 03

  Oh, right.

• 3:03:06Griffin Newman?

  Feels like a guest jeans ad or something.

• 3:03:09Speaker 03

  That's is that the dance sequence?

• 3:03:10Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 3:03:11Speaker 03

  Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. What what's going on there? Exactly. I don't.

• 3:03:15Griffin Newman?

  It it just feels like an odd stylistic swing.

• 3:03:17David Sims?

  Sure. Yeah.

• 3:03:18Griffin Newman?

  Away. I guess in the start of his spiral down.

• 3:03:21David Sims?

  And it might be one of those things, again, as an audience member, maybe in 1994, where you're kind of like, how many more sort of switches in format are you going to throw at me? You had the newsreels, right? You had the big band sequence like where it does start to get a little overwhelming.

• 3:03:40Speaker 03

  I love Buzz. I love Buzz chasing after him with the big mob. That's all great stuff. Um, I did. The ending is in the the end, the ending stretch isn't. It's an insane stretch, but I I love it.

• 3:03:56Griffin Newman?

  So I just checked it. It's she comes in. He's like hot shot. They the people have the old timey hand massagers on his face.

• 3:04:04David Sims?

  Love those.

• 3:04:04Speaker 03

  Oh, I love that.

• 3:04:05Griffin Newman?

  Put on your fingers. Yeah, little motorized glove.

• 3:04:08Speaker 03

  That's great. Those are great.

• 3:04:09Griffin Newman?

  Right. And she slaps him in the face because of how arrogant he's become. Then he goes in the dream sequence. And when he wakes up, it's like everyone's gone. The office is dark. And that's when Buzz pisses him the straw.

• 3:04:19David Sims?

  The straw thing.

• 3:04:20Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 3:04:20David Sims?

  And all that. And then but then he gets

• 3:04:23Griffin Newman?

  Immediately after that.

• 3:04:24David Sims?

  Yeah, right.

• 3:04:25Griffin Newman?

  It's him being called into Musburger's office.

• 3:04:27David Sims?

  Right.

• 3:04:28Griffin Newman?

  Or the big board room after the golf trip. And he's like Buzz claims that you stole his idea for the hula hoop, but that's not even the real problem. I figured out who the reporter is. You let her into the hen house and gone. We're gonna have you declared insane.

• 3:04:40David Sims?

  Right. And we're having you institutionalized. And then he's then he's at the beatnik bar with Bishemi.

• 3:04:45Griffin Newman?

  A detail I love in that scene is that it feels like the most genuine moment from Newman and his performance in a way is he's saying, you know, Buzz says you stole this idea. And by the way, there's no problem with that. You know, he's nothing like that need to be put down. There's this moment of him talking to him as if he were a real executive.

• 3:05:07David Sims?

  CEO to CEO.

• 3:05:08Griffin Newman?

  Where he's like, by the way, if I respected you, I would tell you that the right thing to do is to start treating people like shit now. Even though this has all been a setup. But yes, then it's like precipitous fall.

• 3:05:20David Sims?

  Yes. And then we're, we're on to Norville's suicide. You know, we're on to he, he's drunk and he, he's gonna jump.

• 3:05:28Griffin Newman?

  It does happen pretty.

• 3:05:30David Sims?

  Oh, it's very rapid. Like the last.

• 3:05:31Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 3:05:32David Sims?

  Yes. The last half of plot in this movie is 10 minutes.

• 3:05:34Griffin Newman?

  They send him to the head shrinker. They watch it on a film reel. He goes to the bar. He meets Buscemi.

• 3:05:39David Sims?

  Yes.

• 3:05:39Griffin Newman?

  It's a good bit of like, he can't get a drink.

• 3:05:41David Sims?

  Yeah. The only, they only serve juice, right? Like it's like.

• 3:05:44Griffin Newman?

  Juice and coffee.

• 3:05:44David Sims?

  Juice and coffee. Yeah. Carrot juice, maybe. What do we think of the device that, that clock? That the janitor is an all-knowing sort of god-like figure.

• 3:05:57Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 3:05:57David Sims?

  Angel.

• 3:05:58Griffin Newman?

  Right. So you have this earlier scene where Jennifer Jason Lee snooping around.

• 3:06:02David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 3:06:02Griffin Newman?

  And she goes through the gears of the clock because basically the clock is the midpoint between the Musburger office. And the hot sucker's office that Norville takes over. And he has this one like sort of info dump of like, I know everything.

• 3:06:15David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 3:06:16Griffin Newman?

  I'm ahead of the plot. I know where this is going.

• 3:06:18David Sims?

  Right.

• 3:06:18Griffin Newman?

  Right? Like I'm all seeing. I think it's the first time you've seen him on camera since the open narration.

• 3:06:24David Sims?

  Yeah, pretty much. So they've been chatting, right? In voiceover.

• 3:06:28Speaker 02

  Can we just talk about those gears? God, what big old incredible looking gears. Up there with Castle Caglio Astro as far as like a gears movie.

• 3:06:36Griffin Newman?

  Great Masked Detective and all these.

• 3:06:38David Sims?

  Yeah. Masked Detective. Yeah. Bring back a big clock.

• 3:06:40Speaker 02

  Tik Tok clock from Super Mario 64.

• 3:06:43David Sims?

  Yes. It's, it's, it's, it's right. It's, it's right up there with Tik Tok clock.

• 3:06:47Griffin Newman?

  There's like almost nothing I love more than a big practical set where things are moving.

• 3:06:52David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 3:06:53Griffin Newman?

  And you're like, fuck, this shit is rigged. You know, like this is motorized or like 20 guys are like pulling levers to make this set operate. This like phony machinery.

• 3:07:06David Sims?

  Is there a Tik Tok clock Mario Kart? I think where there's like, you know, conveyor belts going, one's going one way, one's going the other.

• 3:07:14Speaker 02

  I feel like that was, I, I know the Mario Kart canon last.

• 3:07:17David Sims?

  Yeah, there is.

• 3:07:17Speaker 02

  There was a level.

• 3:07:19Griffin Newman?

  When this movie was about to come out and they were doing press and it had not test screened well, and they went back for reshoots and the press was like, is this about to be Joel Silver's costly flop? Why did he bet on the Coen brothers? He said, like, we do reshoots in all of our movies. They have final cut, which they did. There was nothing forced upon them. Warner Brothers wanted

• 3:07:37David Sims?

  Nothing about this movie screams studio.

• 3:07:39Griffin Newman?

  I had their back. And they said, we've heard that you did reshoots to add a fight scene.

• 3:07:45David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 3:07:45Griffin Newman?

  And he said, nothing was imposed on us. When we were in the edit, we all collectively agreed that there was something that was missing.

• 3:07:52David Sims?

  Right.

• 3:07:52Griffin Newman?

  I don't know if that means that the entire fight scene was added.

• 3:07:54David Sims?

  I wonder.

• 3:07:55Griffin Newman?

  Or if pieces were added. It is the one thing in the movie that still feels like from their pen, but does feel like, do we need something more exciting at the end?

• 3:08:03David Sims?

  A little out of nowhere that the guy who replaces the signs on the doors is the villain all of a sudden.

• 3:08:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:08:10David Sims?

  I mean, it's fine. I don't have a problem with it. It's funny. And I like his teeth falling out and all that. Like, it's cool.

• 3:08:17Griffin Newman?

  There is also using them to stop the gears.

• 3:08:20David Sims?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 3:08:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. There is the moment earlier. Were you about to say something?

• 3:08:24David Sims?

  No, I just, I like the teeth in the gears as well.

• 3:08:26Speaker 02

  I love the teeth in the gears. There was, there was the moment earlier where you see him looming over Musburger's shoulder as if he's the guy who's giving him the intel or approving, approving the intel that, that she's actually the reporter, right? Which ultimately leads to his, his downfall. So I, I, I think that they are trying to seed at least these, some sort of shadowy figure. But, but again, just everything's so arch that I think they, I do think it feels like he is the literal devil. Like, it's like, we have one character who seems to be coded as God.

• 3:08:55David Sims?

  Evil and Bill Cobb is like an angel.

• 3:08:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 3:08:57Griffin Newman?

  Right. He says, like, I know just about everything that happens, at least within this building. And it feels like him almost covering for the fact that he's admitting that he knows everything.

• 3:09:06David Sims?

  The great Bill Cobb.

• 3:09:08Griffin Newman?

  We only lost him last year.

• 3:09:09David Sims?

  I know. He died at the age of 90.

• 3:09:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Um, yeah, I like all this. I think the Coen brothers are like weirdly underrated as action filmmakers. Because No Country is one of the only films where they get to sort of do.

• 3:09:20David Sims?

  They didn't make a lot of action movies, but there is basically no one better at like visual communication than the Coen brothers.

• 3:09:28Griffin Newman?

  Right. And the relationship between objects.

• 3:09:30David Sims?

  Yeah. I mean, the Coens never tried to do, I guess, right, a gigantic scale action sequence. Probably would have done a good job if they did.

• 3:09:39Griffin Newman?

  True Grit kind of has an anti-set piece, like they.

• 3:09:41David Sims?

  Which is from the book. It's like, it's not even like that it's the Coens are peeling it back. It's like, yeah, the whole thing with True Grit is it builds to something that's quite short. And sudden, you know, which rocks fill your hands, you son of a bitch. It's the best fucking line in any movie ever, ever said.

• 3:09:56Griffin Newman?

  He likes to pull the cork.

• 3:09:57David Sims?

  He does like to pull.

• 3:09:58Speaker 03

  I did wonder if I was like, are they gonna like, is, are they, is he gonna pull the hand of the clock back to get him back on the ledge?

• 3:10:04David Sims?

  Superman style.

• 3:10:05Speaker 03

  And then, yeah, yeah, yeah. Reversing time or whatever. And then it is just funny that it stopped at just a great time and he just can fall right to the ground.

• 3:10:13Griffin Newman?

  That's what I like. I like the internal logic of it.

• 3:10:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:10:16Griffin Newman?

  And that they realize that these kinds of comedies need the plotting of like two steps forward, one step back.

• 3:10:22Speaker 03

  Sure, yeah.

• 3:10:22Griffin Newman?

  Like Norville gets in the office, but then he fucks it up, but then he saves it.

• 3:10:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:10:26Griffin Newman?

  Where it's like, he falls, but they stop the clock, but it doesn't stop all the way. It's just enough that the fall doesn't kill him.

• 3:10:32Speaker 03

  It's great.

• 3:10:33Griffin Newman?

  And what actually saves him is Hud Sucker himself.

• 3:10:36Speaker 03

  And Hud Sucker as an angel, come on, you get to see Hud Sucker, come on.

• 3:10:39David Sims?

  Halo.

• 3:10:40Griffin Newman?

  I mean, during.

• 3:10:40Speaker 03

  The, yeah, the, the Hulu.

• 3:10:42Griffin Newman?

  Durning's just incredible. I know a lot of it is just like presence.

• 3:10:45David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 3:10:46Griffin Newman?

  And like this guy being such a pro at this point in time and the visual, but he just nails this.

• 3:10:52David Sims?

  Durning's good.

• 3:10:54Speaker 03

  Can I, can I also say that Jennifer Jason Lee, when she has her, when she says goodbye to the newsroom, that whole scene is when she, she keeps saying, shut up. Uh, like she says that over and over again. I think. Very funny. It's great. It's great. It's a great, a great moment for her too.

• 3:11:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Um, but yeah, no, Hud Sucker, uh, imparts onto him that like life is meaningless if you don't fucking care about other people. If you're just pursuing success. Um, and saves him just in time to be able to, uh, right the wrong. And also just calls out like, you fucking idiot, you never opened the blue letter.

• 3:11:27Speaker 03

  Right, right. It is him, right, saying like, that is not a dangling, like, that's not a forgotten plot thread. That is a dangling plot thread. It is time for you to resolve it.

• 3:11:36Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 3:11:36Speaker 03

  Open the blue letter.

• 3:11:37Griffin Newman?

  Right. And what's, I, I.

• 3:11:38Speaker 03

  And that resolves the movie.

• 3:11:39Griffin Newman?

  But such a good touch within it is that he is like, I bequeath my stakes to whoever is appointed CEO in my absence, which I assume will be Sidney. But in the weird circumstance that for some reason you place whoever else in the chair, then it goes to that guy. That like Musburger, if he had done nothing, would have had control of the company.

• 3:12:01David Sims?

  Yes, it's a good gag.

• 3:12:02Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:12:02David Sims?

  Instead he gets caught with a big butterfly net and he goes to Looney Bin.

• 3:12:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. How all movies should end.

• 3:12:07David Sims?

  Pretty much.

• 3:12:07Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. That's how Zero Dark Thirty should have ended. The Chris Pratt goes in with a big butterfly net.

• 3:12:13Speaker 03

  That's how he gets, he gets Osama.

• 3:12:15Griffin Newman?

  In a stray jacket. His eyes are like spinning.

• 3:12:19David Sims?

  Remember how then it was, it was like, oh, Chris Pratt's in like a soldier outfit.

• 3:12:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:12:25David Sims?

  And now it's like, yeah, of course Chris Pratt's always in like military fatigues.

• 3:12:29Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:12:29David Sims?

  Like with a giant gun.

• 3:12:31Griffin Newman?

  I, I.

• 3:12:31David Sims?

  It's just his normal state of being.

• 3:12:33Speaker 03

  I served with him in the tomorrow.

• 3:12:36Griffin Newman?

  And thank you for your service.

• 3:12:37Speaker 03

  Of course. Thank you.

• 3:12:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:12:38David Sims?

  You did serve in the tomorrow.

• 3:12:41David Sims?

  Oh, boy. So the film um didn't do very well, Griffin. I'm sorry to say it made one third of a black hat domestically.

• 3:12:49Griffin Newman?

  I just wanted, just to close the loop, he runs back to the fucking coffee shop after the stroke of midnight and does the fucking Muncie hand sign to her and I find it very.

• 3:12:57David Sims?

  Oh, that is nice.

• 3:12:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's nice. It's just like, eh, look, it's, it's classic movie construction thing. I just love when you can like create something within the language of your own movie that did not exist previously and bring it back in and have it suddenly have gained greater emotional weight.

• 3:13:13David Sims?

  Nick's just looking at his empty peel now.

• 3:13:15Griffin Newman?

  Wordless exchanges.

• 3:13:16David Sims?

  Uh, don't you think it's funny that the Coens have this early success? They win the Palme d'Or, they get out, you know, like then they make kind of like what they're, they're like a comedy for like people, you know, for kids almost right where it's like, we made a big budget movie for you guys. That's funny. And like action packed and everyone's like, and they're like, I guess we'll make a movie about like Minnesota people pushing bodies into wood chippers and shit. And everyone's like, yes.

• 3:13:44Griffin Newman?

  This is what we wanted from you.

• 3:13:46David Sims?

  This is more of this.

• 3:13:48Griffin Newman?

  The darker they go, the more people applaud them. And whenever they try to make something funnier, people are like, what the fuck is this dumb bullshit?

• 3:13:55David Sims?

  A divorce, you know, attorney comedy with like George Clooney burning up.

• 3:13:59Griffin Newman?

  Sexiest movie stars.

• 3:14:00David Sims?

  Yeah. And can like Javier Bardem murder people with a cow pistol? Like, can we have that?

• 3:14:06Griffin Newman?

  Can Tommy Lee Jones like basically look to the audience and explain like, maybe humanity should be eradicated?

• 3:14:12David Sims?

  And people.

• 3:14:15Griffin Newman?

  Right. It's like anytime they try to make a crowd pleaser, people are like frowning and crossing their arms.

• 3:14:21David Sims?

  I mean, their two biggest flops, cause in Tower of Cluj is and.

• 3:14:25Griffin Newman?

  And like, and Lady Killers.

• 3:14:26David Sims?

  And it's like, are these. Screwball things and that's probably why I like them so much.

• 3:14:30Griffin Newman?

  I agree, and I think Burn After Reading and Hail Caesar were both kind of dismissed in the moments as being like weird larks.

• 3:14:37David Sims?

  I don't like Burn After.

• 3:14:38Griffin Newman?

  Burn After is a fucking masterpiece and I hope you come around.

• 3:14:40David Sims?

  I hope I do too. Hail Caesar, I love.

• 3:14:41Speaker 03

  I love Hail Caesar.

• 3:14:43David Sims?

  Burn After Reading is the one time where I was like, ah, this is too dark or too black. Like, I don't like anything about it and it's like setting, it's not like I think it's like terrible, but it always set my teeth on edge a little bit.

• 3:14:55Griffin Newman?

  But Big Lebowski has undeniably become their biggest movie in the public consciousness and is basically their guarantor for life, I would say at this point, retroactively. And at the time, people were like, they're making a fucking stoner comedy? Like, this is a movie where the, like, like, they admit the plot doesn't matter?

• 3:15:13Speaker 03

  Big Lebowski now just exists as Super Bowl commercials. It's gonna be like, Super Bowl commercials for the next, like, decade or so.

• 3:15:19Griffin Newman?

  Jeff Daniels like goes around wearing the sweater and like doing like fucking. Jeff Daniels?

• 3:15:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, basically just doing Borat.

• 3:15:24Griffin Newman?

  Even other Jeffs are able to cash in on that.

• 3:15:27David Sims?

  Me Jeff can do both?

• 3:15:28Griffin Newman?

  Jeff Probst is drinking White Russians again. No, but like, I saw Jeff Bridges do some fucking like, talk at some 92nd Street Y-esque thing and he was just wearing the sweater and people were like, losing their minds and it's not like, oh fuck, Adam West wearing the Batman suit, that's depressing. People are like thrilled.

• 3:15:45David Sims?

  He should wear the Iron Monger suit.

• 3:15:50Speaker 03

  You guys remember this?

• 3:15:53Speaker 02

  I mean, I, you know, all the Coen Brothers movies are funny to some degree, like, but I like, as far as they're straight comedies, not connecting with audiences as much, I guess absent Lebowski, though, that's kind of its own thing.

• 3:16:05David Sims?

  Even Oh Brother was sort of a 50%.

• 3:16:08Griffin Newman?

  Oh, Oh Brother, Racing Arizona, we're both in that zone, but Oh Brother is so eclipsed by the soundtrack in its moment.

• 3:16:14David Sims?

  Yeah, well, that's the other weird thing where they're like, let's do, okay, finish your point.

• 3:16:17Speaker 02

  Oh, no, no, all I was gonna say is that I like, I wonder if there's something of like, these are, they're comedies, but you like, really have to pay attention to them. And I feel like the audience expectations for a comedy sometimes are just like, I'm just gonna enjoy the ride as opposed to like, I really have to lock in and focus and like,

• 3:16:31David Sims?

  densely packed with jokes.

• 3:16:32Speaker 02

  My attention, yeah.

• 3:16:33David Sims?

  Yes, that is true.

• 3:16:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, right. They are very, yeah.

• 3:16:36David Sims?

  And they also look too. Too good. Like, like movies like Oh Brother Looks So Phenomenal that you're like, this is a comedy? Like, this seems like important in a way.

• 3:16:44Griffin Newman?

  So we talked about this in our 1941 episode, right? This line of like, if a comedy gets too expensive, does it stop being funny?

• 3:16:50David Sims?

  I don't want FOP, goddammit. I'm gonna do that 40 times on that episode. I don't want FOP, goddamnit. The way he says FOP, he should have gotten eight Oscars.

• 3:16:58Griffin Newman?

  I'm a dapper Dan man.

• 3:16:59David Sims?

  I'm a dapper Dan man.

• 3:17:01Griffin Newman?

  Uh, Clooney is, uh, is-

• 3:17:03David Sims?

  He's my best actor that year, my friend.

• 3:17:05Griffin Newman?

  He's your winner?

• 3:17:06Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 3:17:06David Sims?

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:17:07Griffin Newman?

  Over Crow?

• 3:17:09David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 3:17:09Griffin Newman?

  Cause you would have given Crow the insider?

• 3:17:11David Sims?

  Crow is a winner for me for LA Confidential, my favorite Russell Crowe performance. The movie, the movie, when he, the moment in LA Confidential, when he's holding the chair, the back of the chair, and he fucking snaps it off. It's so-

• 3:17:24Speaker 02

  Oh, my god, it's the best. I love that movie.

• 3:17:27David Sims?

  Uh, LA Confidential, I almost want like a tie to Crow and Pierce, cause I think they're both so amazing in that movie. But yes, no, I have Clooney winning best actor in 2000 for Oh Brother, Where Art Thou? I think he's so, so, so good.

• 3:17:38Griffin Newman?

  You put Jennifer Jason-Leigh in your supporting-

• 3:17:39David Sims?

  For this, for this movie.

• 3:17:41Griffin Newman?

  Who else do you have in that category?

• 3:17:43David Sims?

  Oh, let's take a look.

• 3:17:44Griffin Newman?

  Uma?

• 3:17:45David Sims?

  Uh, Uma Thurman for Pulp Fiction, Diane Wees for Bullets Over Broadway, who won the Oscar.

• 3:17:49Speaker 03

  They did, you were doing David Load a movie out there?

• 3:17:51Griffin Newman?

  Cause this was the year at the Oscars that he did that.

• 3:17:53Speaker 03

  Oh, my god.

• 3:17:54Griffin Newman?

  Cause she's there for Pulp Fiction.

• 3:17:56David Sims?

  Helen Mirren for Madness The King George, who I think was also an Oscar nominee, so good.

• 3:18:00Griffin Newman?

  Never seen that movie.

• 3:18:00David Sims?

  Brigitte Lynn for Chunking Express.

• 3:18:02Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure.

• 3:18:03David Sims?

  The best.

• 3:18:03Speaker 02

  Is there a, uh, why, why you've got the spreadsheet open, where did you, did you nom, um, this movie and anything else?

• 3:18:11David Sims?

  I nominated for-

• 3:18:12Griffin Newman?

  For cinematography?

• 3:18:12David Sims?

  For screenplay, uh, but I have it reducing to Pulp Fiction. I mean, Pulp Fiction's a big movie. I have it nominated for cinematography, for score, uh, which I have it winning for, um, I have it-

• 3:18:26Griffin Newman?

  You gave it the score win.

• 3:18:27David Sims?

  I gave it the score win and the production design win.

• 3:18:30Griffin Newman?

  I didn't realize how much of this was based on pre-existing material where it probably would have been disqualified, even though-

• 3:18:36David Sims?

  But it's a, that's a weird score year, dude. The weird score year.

• 3:18:40Griffin Newman?

  Ninety-four?

• 3:18:40David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 3:18:41Griffin Newman?

  Did Gump get a nomination?

• 3:18:42David Sims?

  It's like Pulp Fiction's the biggest one.

• 3:18:43Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 3:18:44David Sims?

  I have Gump in there. I have Shawshank, which is a lovely score.

• 3:18:47Griffin Newman?

  Incredible score. I'm saying in the actual Oscars, right? They nominated those three.

• 3:18:52David Sims?

  Yeah, but Hans Zimmer wins for Lion King.

• 3:18:53Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 3:18:54David Sims?

  Uh, it's an amazing movie year because I love Hudsucker and it's not even a top five movie for me. Oh, no, it's fifth. I have a fifth. Behind Chunking Express, Pulp Fiction, Hoop Dreams and Ed Wood, which are all movies I adore.

• 3:19:07Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:19:08David Sims?

  Um, yeah.

• 3:19:09Griffin Newman?

  They, they are, when they make comedies, for me, I feel like they toe the exact line of how expensive a comedy can look while still being funny. Where it feels like there is never like wasted cost, like something like this, the money is all in service of jokes ultimately. Even if the joke is, look at how big the set is versus it feeling like an abuse of power. Or like, you know, hubris or whatever.

• 3:19:37David Sims?

  I'm trying to even think of someone else who makes comedies that even look close to as good as what the Coen Brothers do.

• 3:19:43Griffin Newman?

  Problem. Like, we were talking about, uh, texting recently about, uh, How Do You Know? The most brightly lit movie of all time. James O'Brien's film that cost a hundred and twenty million dollars and takes place in three apartments. Right? And you're like, this costs like a fourth of that, a third of that. And

• 3:20:03David Sims?

  I was working at The Simpsons while this movie was happening.

• 3:20:05Griffin Newman?

  Like built an entire universe and has this like Swiss watch construction of every sequence is like so technically tight. And then even something like Raising Arizona where you're like, how the fuck did they make this on this budget? When every shot is like so intentional. Um, and has such a specific relationship to its cuts, but I think you're right, David, that there is this weird element of the movie. Them kind of optimistically hoping maybe people will receive this as the hula hoop. And instead people respond to it as if it's the drawing of the circle and being like, what the fuck is this?

• 3:20:38David Sims?

  Truly no one went to see it. It made 2.8 million dollars. You know what I mean? It's like it opened fine limited probably in like art housey places and then it's just, it did not expand at all. Uh, I do like this quote from Joel. Where he's like, we want the movie to be successful and make money. Obviously, it's not like they're making it for no good reason. But he's like, but as far as being perceived as mainstream movie makers, that's not particularly important to us. It's not like we're doing this so we can go do Beethoven three. I like them thinking about Beethoven at all. It's just funny to me. But the movie did badly. And got kind of bad.

• 3:21:11Griffin Newman?

  When you get to the later direct to video sequels, I just want to say that for.

• 3:21:14Speaker 02

  Wait, really?

• 3:21:14Griffin Newman?

  Go on. Yep.

• 3:21:16Speaker 02

  And that's they're good. You're saying?

• 3:21:18Griffin Newman?

  They start alternating in the later sequels between movies about characters in a universe where the Beethoven movies exist and they own the dog who plays Beethoven and then the other. Every other movie is back to just people who own a dog.

• 3:21:30Speaker 02

  That's so complicated.

• 3:21:32David Sims?

  We're gonna play the box office game.

• 3:21:33Speaker 02

  Wait, they own Beethoven, the dog.

• 3:21:35Speaker 03

  Sam, we need to figure this out.

• 3:21:38David Sims?

  You can't. Beethoven third is an American comedy film. I can tell you that much. It was released direct to video.

• 3:21:46David Sims?

  Introduces Judge Reinhold. Reinhold was coming in for the third.

• 3:21:50Griffin Newman?

  I think they start alternating between Reinhold and Dave Thomas as the owner. This is the thing. There were like two different creative teams who were making back and forth.

• 3:21:58David Sims?

  We're no Reinhold's in the fourth.

• 3:22:00Griffin Newman?

  What about five?

• 3:22:02David Sims?

  Fifth, we've got Dave Thomas.

• 3:22:03Griffin Newman?

  Oh, well, well, well.

• 3:22:04David Sims?

  I know, I know, but you're saying alternate.

• 3:22:06Griffin Newman?

  And what about six?

• 3:22:07David Sims?

  Well, sixth, also known as Beethoven's big break. Seems to feature neither of them.

• 3:22:13Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 3:22:14David Sims?

  And then the seventh is Beethoven's Christmas adventure, which doesn't even get its own Wikipedia article.

• 3:22:21Griffin Newman?

  Who's in that?

• 3:22:22David Sims?

  That's how relevant in. I don't know.

• 3:22:24Griffin Newman?

  If you don't know, then.

• 3:22:25David Sims?

  That's the first one where Beethoven has a speaking voice.

• 3:22:28Griffin Newman?

  Okay. So then this is.

• 3:22:28Speaker 03

  Beethoven starts talking.

• 3:22:30Griffin Newman?

  Third reality.

• 3:22:31Speaker 02

  What a decision. What a swing.

• 3:22:33David Sims?

  The eighth one, Beethoven's treasure trail.

• 3:22:36Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 3:22:36David Sims?

  Is about the little line between his belly button and his dick.

• 3:22:42David Sims?

  No, it's a, it's about, it's usually kind of like a pirate adventure.

• 3:22:46Speaker 02

  So this sounds like they started taking their cues from the buddies franchise, whereas you saw, you know, air, air buds started something like as a basketball playing dog. And then he started playing different sports. You know, world pop and. And then so on.

• 3:23:00David Sims?

  The buddies talk.

• 3:23:01Speaker 02

  The buddies, the buddies talk. And so they borrowed that, but then the buddies also go on adventures. So they have like spooky buddies, space buddy.

• 3:23:08Griffin Newman?

  But the buddies start out as canonically the children of Air Bud, who is voiced by Tom Everett Scott. And then they start to write him out and don't acknowledge the parentage. Alex Russ Perry texted, time to call out Griffin. I told you a year ago about the absolutely insane circumstances that befall the Beethoven franchise when it reaches movies five to eight. And I told you that someday you'd drive David insane with this information at hour three of a podcast, at hour three of Schindler's List. You talk Beethoven and do not mention that five and seven are connected and six and eight are a separate story. It just had to be acknowledged. A story in which Beethoven is a dog who has played Beethoven in all the other movies which exist.

• 3:23:47Speaker 03

  We're in the third hour and he's dropping you insane with it. I, I looked at you, this is crazy with you. I'm looking here in Beethoven 11, Beethoven is a man. He's just like a guy. He's no longer a dog.

• 3:23:57David Sims?

  Does he compose symphony?

• 3:23:59Speaker 03

  No, he's, he's just like a regular guy. Beethoven 12, he is Beethoven and the man.

• 3:24:04David Sims?

  When Ludwig von.

• 3:24:05Speaker 03

  And then Beethoven 13, he's Beethoven, he's, he's, he's the composer, but he's a dog again.

• 3:24:12David Sims?

  They finally got to the right thing.

• 3:24:15Griffin Newman?

  It was crazy also, I'm seeing here that in Beethoven.

• 3:24:21Griffin Newman?

  And they're like, yeah, yeah. I'm seeing here that in Beethoven's 14, he's the composer, but he is a dog and he tricks both of you guys into sucking him off. So the film came out.

• 3:24:35Speaker 03

  And then in 11, we're dogs that suck off human Beethoven.

• 3:24:40Speaker 03

  By the way, I want people to know who don't know our podcast, we have a thing where a gator tricks us into suck. So not only did you, you get to hear how bad our podcast is, but now we'll explain to you our bit where we suck a gator off of our podcast.

• 3:24:55Griffin Newman?

  Has a southern gator much in the stylings of Tom Hanks in Lady Killer.

• 3:25:01David Sims?

  The film.

• 3:25:01Griffin Newman?

  Who tricks you to suck him off. The bit has now become generally people keep sucking you into sucking them off. It happens just globally now. It's not just the gator anymore.

• 3:25:14David Sims?

  The film came out.

• 3:25:17David Sims?

  March 11th, 1994, after premiering at the Sundance Film Festival.

• 3:25:22Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 3:25:22David Sims?

  So I feel like there's already this sort of awareness of like, okay, this thing is not about to be an awards contender, big hit.

• 3:25:30Griffin Newman?

  Are you not Sundance? Didn't it premiere at Cannes?

• 3:25:32David Sims?

  The Hudsucker Proxy premiered, of course, at Sundance, January 94.

• 3:25:38Griffin Newman?

  Well, okay.

• 3:25:39David Sims?

  I might have played at Cannes after this out of possibly out of respect.

• 3:25:42Griffin Newman?

  Out of respect, because I was gonna say.

• 3:25:44David Sims?

  They won the Palme d'Or for their prior film.

• 3:25:46Griffin Newman?

  The disparity between.

• 3:25:47David Sims?

  After.

• 3:25:48Griffin Newman?

  Right. This playing at Cannes the same year that Pulp Fiction like hits and wins and causes the phenomenon of like the indie takeover of Hollywood for the next 10 years. I do think it speaks to the moment where it's like, we don't want the fucking Coen Brothers making a screwball comedy.

• 3:26:02David Sims?

  It was.

• 3:26:02Griffin Newman?

  We want them making dark noir.

• 3:26:04David Sims?

  It was the opening film at Cannes, which is so weird because it had come out in America. But back then, I guess.

• 3:26:10Griffin Newman?

  They used to do that.

• 3:26:11David Sims?

  Yeah, you know, it was a little different, like, you know, movies.

• 3:26:13Speaker 03

  It is crazy how much older Pulp Fiction feels than this movie. I mean, I guess that's a testament to me not having ever seen it, I guess. But it.

• 3:26:20Griffin Newman?

  New to you.

• 3:26:21Speaker 03

  It's new to me, but it does feel like a very modern movie in a lot of way. It, it, and just, I mean, it's just so clean and beautiful looking, too. It's just such a, a pretty movie. Not that Pulp Fiction isn't, of course, but.

• 3:26:32Griffin Newman?

  It's a rougher film.

• 3:26:33David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 3:26:34Griffin Newman?

  Um, but the smaller budget.

• 3:26:36David Sims?

  So it's not in the top five, but we're gonna play the box office game. It's opening on limited screens, obviously. So number one at the box office, Griffin, is a film I assume you've seen because it features an actor you love.

• 3:26:46Griffin Newman?

  Steve Martin?

• 3:26:47David Sims?

  No.

• 3:26:47Griffin Newman?

  Bill Murray?

• 3:26:48David Sims?

  But this is a guy where you've seen.

• 3:26:49Griffin Newman?

  Michael Keaton?

• 3:26:50David Sims?

  No.

• 3:26:51Speaker 02

  Is it Beethoven the dog?

• 3:26:52Griffin Newman?

  Nicholas Cage?

• 3:26:53David Sims?

  Nicholas Cage.

• 3:26:54Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 3:26:55Griffin Newman?

  Is it guarding Tess?

• 3:26:56David Sims?

  It's guarding Tess.

• 3:26:57Speaker 02

  Oh, wow. Okay.

• 3:26:59David Sims?

  Now, that's the one where he's a Secret Service agent. That's, that's a post Driving Miss Daisy, we need Tandy vehicle.

• 3:27:05Griffin Newman?

  The poster is very similar, but it's Shirley MacLaine.

• 3:27:08David Sims?

  But it's Shirley MacLaine is not Tandy.

• 3:27:10Griffin Newman?

  Is the first lady, the former first lady.

• 3:27:12David Sims?

  Right. She's not even the first lady. She's an old, she's a sort of Mrs. Eisenhower type.

• 3:27:16Griffin Newman?

  I think it opens with her husband's funeral.

• 3:27:18David Sims?

  Uh huh.

• 3:27:19Griffin Newman?

  And it's like, she's still assigned a Secret Service guy.

• 3:27:21David Sims?

  But so is Driving Miss Daisy-esque? Is she kind of a pain in the ass?

• 3:27:25Griffin Newman?

  I will say this.

• 3:27:26David Sims?

  Yes, ma'am.

• 3:27:26Griffin Newman?

  Having recently seen Driving Miss Daisy for the first time, when I watched that film, I was like, oh, so this is like runoff Driving Miss Daisy? Now I can say it is wildly superior to Driving Miss Daisy. It is improved Driving Miss Daisy. It is a perfectly fine comedy. It is like a five out of 10, but Drive Miss Daisy is like a fucking two.

• 3:27:46Speaker 02

  I saw it on, I saw it on video once regarding Tess and I remember liking it.

• 3:27:50Griffin Newman?

  It's, you watch it and you're like, this is close to being really good and they didn't quite get there.

• 3:27:55David Sims?

  It's a Hugh Wilson film who made like the first Wives Club and Blast from the Past and totally solid comedies. All right. Number two, at the box office, Griffin. It's a film I don't think either of us have seen. We have covered on this podcast, a lot of this guy's output.

• 3:28:10Griffin Newman?

  I thought you were gonna say, we haven't seen it and we've covered it on this podcast?

• 3:28:13David Sims?

  This guy has just not made that many movies.

• 3:28:16Griffin Newman?

  Oh, so the majority.

• 3:28:19David Sims?

  We did a franchise of his, which is, you know, like a big chunk of the movies.

• 3:28:23Griffin Newman?

  Okay, so it's, it's a second tier Paul Hogan?

• 3:28:25David Sims?

  It's a Paul Hogan film. It's Crocodile Dundee himself.

• 3:28:28Griffin Newman?

  It's not Flipper.

• 3:28:29David Sims?

  Not Flipper. A film I saw in theaters.

• 3:28:31Griffin Newman?

  Did see that in theaters and had the Pizza Hut hand puppets. I feel like you always talk about the Casper and, and.

• 3:28:38David Sims?

  The Casper hand puppets are huge to me. Yes. Yeah.

• 3:28:41Griffin Newman?

  Pizza Hut had the market cornered.

• 3:28:42David Sims?

  The Flipper remake does feel like with like Hogan, what could you do? It's like, I guess this is like putting a cap on his head. Like you could, you know, you do a Flipper movie?

• 3:28:51Griffin Newman?

  It's one of my favorite phenomenons when someone hyper-specific weirdly becomes a movie star and they're like, where the fuck do we?

• 3:28:58David Sims?

  Have you guys seen Crocodile Dundee slash, do you enjoy Crocodile Dundee?

• 3:29:02Speaker 02

  I've seen, I've seen Dundee and Dundee two. I never watched in LA.

• 3:29:05Griffin Newman?

  Dundee, I think we were pleasantly.

• 3:29:07David Sims?

  You live in LA. You've been, you don't need to see Crock show up.

• 3:29:10Griffin Newman?

  We were pleasantly surprised by one.

• 3:29:12David Sims?

  One's good.

• 3:29:13Griffin Newman?

  Two, the opening is so fucking funny that we were like.

• 3:29:16David Sims?

  Fishing with dinosaurs.

• 3:29:16Griffin Newman?

  We're also, this is like January 2021, we're losing our minds. And then two just becomes bad Rambo, stops having jokes after the 15 minute mark.

• 3:29:24David Sims?

  Mitch, do you have a Crock Dundee take?

• 3:29:26Speaker 03

  Not real. I've, I saw the first one, but, but, but wait, he's, he's eventually in Flipper? Is that what you're saying?

• 3:29:32David Sims?

  He did do a Flipper remake with Elijah Wood.

• 3:29:34Speaker 03

  Okay, for a few years, two years after, 96?

• 3:29:37David Sims?

  96. This movie though is not Flipper.

• 3:29:39Griffin Newman?

  Is this like the Western one?

• 3:29:40David Sims?

  It's the Western one with Cuba Gooding Jr. And Beverly D'Angelo.

• 3:29:44Griffin Newman?

  It's not called Bronco Billy, but it's a character's name.

• 3:29:47David Sims?

  Yep. And it is thing name.

• 3:29:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. It's, it's not like Outback Jack.

• 3:29:53David Sims?

  It's something Jack. You're close. You're circling.

• 3:29:56Griffin Newman?

  It's not Kangaroo Jack.

• 3:29:57David Sims?

  No. No, no.

• 3:30:00Griffin Newman?

  Give me the type of word that the first thing.

• 3:30:03David Sims?

  It's a sort of a weather phenomenon.

• 3:30:05Griffin Newman?

  Hurricane Jack?

• 3:30:05David Sims?

  Close.

• 3:30:08David Sims?

  Less, less, uh, more common than a hurricane.

• 3:30:11Speaker 02

  Wind jack.

• 3:30:13David Sims?

  Less common than wind.

• 3:30:14Griffin Newman?

  Rain jack.

• 3:30:16David Sims?

  More, less, no, uh, sort of more common than hail, less common than rain.

• 3:30:20Griffin Newman?

  Thunderstorm?

• 3:30:21David Sims?

  What's, what's, what?

• 3:30:22Griffin Newman?

  Lightning jack. There we go.

• 3:30:24Speaker 02

  Lightning jack.

• 3:30:25David Sims?

  Lightning jack.

• 3:30:25Speaker 02

  Lightning jack.

• 3:30:26Griffin Newman?

  Lightning jack.

• 3:30:27David Sims?

  Written by and starring Paul Hogan.

• 3:30:29Griffin Newman?

  Right. That's, um, yeah.

• 3:30:31David Sims?

  Not, not a big hit.

• 3:30:32Speaker 03

  Your, your P and Vacation was a big, uh, movie for my family, by the way. I had, we had a good time.

• 3:30:38Speaker 02

  I haven't watched it in many years. Have you paid attention to what's going on with the crocodile Dundee direct to video sequels?

• 3:30:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's a dog now.

• 3:30:44Speaker 02

  He's a dog. What's it, is it in six, he's a doll.

• 3:30:48Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:30:49Speaker 02

  And then in seven, he's an actual crocodile.

• 3:30:52David Sims?

  Oh, yeah. They should have done that.

• 3:30:54Speaker 02

  There's like, we should have that before the dog.

• 3:30:55David Sims?

  That shortcut.

• 3:30:56Griffin Newman?

  And they make it that the crocodile is an actor who played the dog in Beethoven.

• 3:31:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, that's the whole thing.

• 3:31:02Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 3:31:03Speaker 02

  And his whole thing is that he tricks people into sucking them off.

• 3:31:07Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 3:31:08David Sims?

  Number three of the box of, speaking of, uh, films involving blowjobs, that I did not pick up on the, the, being a blowjob until I was much older.

• 3:31:17Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 3:31:17David Sims?

  Cause I love this movie. I saw it in theaters.

• 3:31:19Griffin Newman?

  Casper?

• 3:31:20David Sims?

  Big comedy. No, does Casper have a blowjob?

• 3:31:22Griffin Newman?

  I was trying to think of the least appropriate joke I can make.

• 3:31:25Speaker 02

  I'm, I might know this one. No, no, actually, I know. I think this is too late.

• 3:31:28David Sims?

  I already invoked it on this episode.

• 3:31:30Speaker 02

  Uh, oh, then, then I don't know.

• 3:31:31Griffin Newman?

  You thought it was a blowjob joke that you didn't pick up at the time?

• 3:31:34David Sims?

  One of the first jokes in this movie is a blowjob joke.

• 3:31:36Griffin Newman?

  One of the first jokes?

• 3:31:37David Sims?

  Well, the, the first scene ends with a blowjob.

• 3:31:39Griffin Newman?

  The first scene ends with a blowjob?

• 3:31:40David Sims?

  But I didn't know it was a blowjob.

• 3:31:41Griffin Newman?

  Someone dips down?

• 3:31:42David Sims?

  Yeah, you know.

• 3:31:43Griffin Newman?

  Give me any.

• 3:31:44David Sims?

  Some comical overreaction.

• 3:31:46Griffin Newman?

  There's a comical overreaction to a blowjob?

• 3:31:48David Sims?

  You know, he's, he likes it.

• 3:31:49Griffin Newman?

  Oh, to he, my, he likes?

• 3:31:51David Sims?

  He likes it.

• 3:31:52Griffin Newman?

  Is it the life commercial?

• 3:31:55David Sims?

  Is this, is this, is, is it a hot shots type movie? Uh, it's a straightforward comedy, not a parody exactly, although it's kind of a parody movie. It's a very strange movie. It was a gigantic, gigantic hit. It made a star. It's very odd on rewatch. I cannot believe I was obsessed with it as a child.

• 3:32:12Griffin Newman?

  Made a star in 1924. It's primarily a comedy star.

• 3:32:14David Sims?

  It was very normal for me to be obsessed with it as a child. I literally brought it up on this episode.

• 3:32:17Griffin Newman?

  You literally brought it up on this episode.

• 3:32:19David Sims?

  A famous movie.

• 3:32:20Griffin Newman?

  Primarily a comedy star.

• 3:32:21David Sims?

  Yeah, it made a, it minted the biggest comedian of the 90s, biggest comic actor.

• 3:32:26Speaker 03

  Ace Ventura.

• 3:32:27David Sims?

  Ace Ventura Pet Detective.

• 3:32:28Griffin Newman?

  What's the blowjob joke in Ace Ventura?

• 3:32:29David Sims?

  The first scene ends with, well, so the first thing in Ace Ventura, which is very funny, is him with the fake package.

• 3:32:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:32:35David Sims?

  Where he's like breaking it and kicking it and stuff, which is funny.

• 3:32:38Griffin Newman?

  Mark Margulies trying to kick him out.

• 3:32:39David Sims?

  And then he rescues the dog or the cockatiel, or whatever the fuck he does. And then returns it to the lady who gives him a blowjob and it's just Carrie going like, woo! Like that. And I, as a kid, was just like, I don't know what's happening right now, but I love that he's doing all this funny stuff.

• 3:32:53Griffin Newman?

  This guy got an indoor roller coaster?

• 3:32:55David Sims?

  I totally just think, like, eight-year-old David just being like, this, whatever this guy wants to do, I'm there for it.

• 3:33:01Griffin Newman?

  She took him on his feet?

• 3:33:02David Sims?

  Yes, I just don't get what's happening.

• 3:33:04Speaker 03

  Have you seen the, have you seen the newest Ace Ventura? He's, he's a human detective, but he's a dog.

• 3:33:12David Sims?

  So he's a dog.

• 3:33:13Speaker 03

  So he's a dog.

• 3:33:14David Sims?

  But he's solving human crimes.

• 3:33:16Speaker 03

  He's solving human crimes.

• 3:33:17David Sims?

  Sort of a grudge situation.

• 3:33:19Griffin Newman?

  You know what's weird? In the third one, they recreate the opening of the first Ace Ventura movie. He's sucking you guys off.

• 3:33:26Speaker 03

  We're getting sucked off. Finally, we got our due.

• 3:33:29Griffin Newman?

  He rewards you for him doing a good job.

• 3:33:32David Sims?

  Who? Is there an Ace Ventura Junior or something like that? They did that, right?

• 3:33:37Griffin Newman?

  Yes. It's a...

• 3:33:38Speaker 03

  But also, it is also weird. They show our hogs and we have like Red Rocket hogs, which is very strange.

• 3:33:43David Sims?

  The little, the little lipstick.

• 3:33:45Speaker 03

  The lipstick hogs.

• 3:33:48David Sims?

  Ace Ventura Pet Detective, I've talked about it before. I don't know if I'll ever do it on this show, cause it's just kind of like, it has this nasty, you know, undertone to it.

• 3:33:57Griffin Newman?

  Well, right. Yes. And then the second one is perhaps incredibly racist.

• 3:34:01David Sims?

  Right.

• 3:34:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:34:02David Sims?

  But it's just such an interesting movie because it is Carrie doing that shit on top of a hard-boiled noir with like not much embellishment. Like, the plot of that movie is pretty dark.

• 3:34:13Griffin Newman?

  We were saying that that movie was clearly meant to be, the joke is, it's Chinatown, but they're investigating pets and it's played straight. And he came in and was like, what if I just do all the bits on top of this?

• 3:34:22David Sims?

  And it's so weird. It's such a weird movie. All right. Number four of the box office, very good comedy, a black comedy that I like a lot, starring, oh boy. Starring, yeah, normal guy.

• 3:34:33Griffin Newman?

  Normal guy.

• 3:34:34David Sims?

  I mean, the, the main star is a, he's a, we like him. He's a standup comic who's becoming hot.

• 3:34:39Griffin Newman?

  In this moment.

• 3:34:40David Sims?

  Yep. Uh, and he's, does a lot of movies. And then there's a, a husband, wife in the movie and the, the husband's played by a normal guy.

• 3:34:48Speaker 03

  Gutenberg?

• 3:34:49David Sims?

  Yeah, no, no, way more normal.

• 3:34:50Griffin Newman?

  Oh, oh, it's the ref.

• 3:34:52David Sims?

  The film is the ref.

• 3:34:53Griffin Newman?

  It is.

• 3:34:53Speaker 03

  Dennis.

• 3:34:54David Sims?

  Dennis Leary.

• 3:34:55Griffin Newman?

  Dennis Leary.

• 3:34:56David Sims?

  Having his moments. Judy Davis. And who's this playing the husband here?

• 3:35:02Speaker 02

  Nicholas Frank Wiger.

• 3:35:04Griffin Newman?

  You gotta let this guy be prank.

• 3:35:05David Sims?

  Kevin Spacey.

• 3:35:06Griffin Newman?

  Oh, wow, with Spacey, right?

• 3:35:08Speaker 03

  What the hell were you doing over there?

• 3:35:10David Sims?

  You, we sat, you said.

• 3:35:11Griffin Newman?

  I was spacing out.

• 3:35:12Speaker 03

  You were spacing out.

• 3:35:13Griffin Newman?

  In a way, he was paying respect. He was getting spaced.

• 3:35:16Speaker 02

  No, I didn't realize you were taming up.

• 3:35:17Speaker 03

  What do you got over there? What are you playing with?

• 3:35:18David Sims?

  But I was just, I realized while I was talking about this, I heard fucking Spacey's in it. Uh, hostile hostages in Britain famously.

• 3:35:25Griffin Newman?

  That's what it was called in Britain?

• 3:35:26David Sims?

  Yep. I don't know why. I guess they were like, Brits won't know what refs are. I'm like, I think they do.

• 3:35:30Griffin Newman?

  That's a fun movie, though.

• 3:35:31David Sims?

  That's a really good movie. Yeah, demi movie.

• 3:35:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:35:33David Sims?

  Uh, have you guys seen The Ref?

• 3:35:34Speaker 02

  Yes, many years ago.

• 3:35:36David Sims?

  Good movie.

• 3:35:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:35:37David Sims?

  Um, and just any movie where Leary's like, ah, you fucking guys.

• 3:35:41Griffin Newman?

  Complains about shit.

• 3:35:42David Sims?

  Yeah, maple syrup in my coffee or whatever. I'm just always like, yeah, this is great.

• 3:35:46Speaker 03

  It's in my, he's in my blood, you know, Leary, I love the guy. Come on.

• 3:35:49David Sims?

  I'm a huge Dennis Leary defender, especially that he stole Bill Hicks's drugs. I think that's the best thing he did. Fuck that guy.

• 3:35:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:35:55David Sims?

  Um, number five at the box office, uh, no jokes to be made about this one. It won best picture in 1993.

• 3:36:01Griffin Newman?

  Forrest Gump?

• 3:36:02David Sims?

  No.

• 3:36:02Griffin Newman?

  Oh, nineteen ninety-three. Uh.

• 3:36:05David Sims?

  Before?

• 3:36:06Griffin Newman?

  Uh, fuck.

• 3:36:06David Sims?

  We covered it on this podcast. We did like a four hour episode.

• 3:36:09Griffin Newman?

  So ninety.

• 3:36:10David Sims?

  We're capable of doing these days.

• 3:36:12Griffin Newman?

  Ninety, uh, Schindler's List.

• 3:36:14David Sims?

  Schindler's List. Uh, still in the box office, obviously, you know, after, wow, you know, uh, we've also got, uh, Steven Seagal's On Deadly Ground.

• 3:36:24Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 3:36:24David Sims?

  Is that the one where he's like, saving the forest?

• 3:36:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, that's like beginning of the end for him.

• 3:36:27David Sims?

  Right. It's the one he directed.

• 3:36:28Griffin Newman?

  The environmental one.

• 3:36:29David Sims?

  Yes. Yeah, yeah.

• 3:36:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:36:30David Sims?

  Uh, we've got that, uh, that movie, um, Greedy? What the hell is that?

• 3:36:35Griffin Newman?

  Greedy is like Kirk Douglas and Michael J. Fox and James Wan always cites it as having one of his favorite twist endings in movies. And I've never looked up what it is because I'm like, I should watch it at some point. If no one spoiled the ending of Greedy for me. Okay.

• 3:36:50Speaker 03

  I've never, I've never seen, I don't know.

• 3:36:52Griffin Newman?

  Maybe there's a pleasant surprise.

• 3:36:53David Sims?

  Number eight, most quotable comedy of all time. Hello.

• 3:36:58Speaker 01

  Of course, that's Mr. Doubtfire.

• 3:36:59David Sims?

  Hmm. Wow. Number nine is a film called Angie.

• 3:37:04Speaker 01

  That was a hint I gave in a box office game many years ago.

• 3:37:09Griffin Newman?

  He said, it's really quotable. And I said, give me one of the quotes. And Ben's response was, hello.

• 3:37:13David Sims?

  Hello. Uh, Angie, it's a Gina Davis movie.

• 3:37:18Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say.

• 3:37:18David Sims?

  Never heard of it. Martha Coolidge movie, though.

• 3:37:20Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:37:21David Sims?

  And number 10, well, there's a rando movies in this box office, a movie called Eight Seconds, which is a John G. Avildsen biopic about a bull rider.

• 3:37:31Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:37:32David Sims?

  Where it's like eight seconds is the, the, the length of time you have to stay on your bull to get a score.

• 3:37:38Griffin Newman?

  Starring whom?

• 3:37:38David Sims?

  Luke Perry.

• 3:37:39Griffin Newman?

  Whoa.

• 3:37:40David Sims?

  As a rodeo legend.

• 3:37:41Griffin Newman?

  Who's the second lead in that?

• 3:37:42David Sims?

  Uh, Stephen Baldwin.

• 3:37:44Griffin Newman?

  Uh, that's why I was looking it up. Do you know Stephen Baldwin has a movie podcast now?

• 3:37:48David Sims?

  Oh, is it good? Normal?

• 3:37:49Griffin Newman?

  It seems normal, but I keep getting.

• 3:37:51David Sims?

  No, it can't be normal. What are you talking about?

• 3:37:53Griffin Newman?

  It seems very strange, but I keep getting fed fucking clips in the algorithm. And then I was like, I gotta chart his career. And that's why I saw this movie.

• 3:37:59David Sims?

  Hey, did you ever see the movie Nine Seconds? Uh, The Bull Rider?

• 3:38:07David Sims?

  In Nine Seconds, The Bull Rider, he's not human anymore.

• 3:38:10Speaker 01

  Oh, that's wild.

• 3:38:11David Sims?

  Yeah. Do you know who he is? The Bull Rider?

• 3:38:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:38:13David Sims?

  Can you guess what he is?

• 3:38:14Griffin Newman?

  What is he?

• 3:38:15David Sims?

  A dog.

• 3:38:21David Sims?

  You'd think he would be a bull, maybe, but yeah.

• 3:38:24Speaker 01

  Love to see a dog ride a bull. That'd be amazing.

• 3:38:26David Sims?

  Yeah, it would be really cool.

• 3:38:27Griffin Newman?

  You'd love to see that. You should see Ten Seconds.

• 3:38:31David Sims?

  One bad movie with Stephen Baldwin.

• 3:38:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:38:34David Sims?

  Bad movies. We all love them. Does he talk like that too?

• 3:38:37Speaker 01

  Uh, no, he talks like that.

• 3:38:39Griffin Newman?

  Cause he's like Barney Rubble.

• 3:38:41David Sims?

  He's, yeah, right. He was Barney. He was the second Barney Rubble.

• 3:38:44Griffin Newman?

  But that's what he sounds like. His regular speaking voice was like, yeah, I remember I was making movies.

• 3:38:48David Sims?

  He's bad in Usual Suspects and everyone else in that movie is good. And at the time, you're kind of like, oh, well, he's just being big. And then you rewatch it, like now he sucks in.

• 3:38:57Griffin Newman?

  They talk about, cause Alec was on recently and just dragged his brother for like two hours.

• 3:39:02David Sims?

  Right. I mean, he's a shitty actor.

• 3:39:04Griffin Newman?

  And was just like, Usual Suspects blows up and everyone's big and Spacey wins the Oscar and everyone goes on to greater things. And then you're Barney Rubble. And there's this notion, he'll talk about in other episodes where he's like, you know, and everyone wanted me to be the next Tom Cruise. And I want to go a different way. And it was just clear that everyone was just like, we know what your ceiling is.

• 3:39:20David Sims?

  Yeah, you're not even as good as Billy Baldwin.

• 3:39:22Griffin Newman?

  Here's the script to Biodego. But one bad movie is setting itself up like it's how did this get made? And then like every clip I've seen is just him having other kind of middling nineties former movie stars on and them complaining about their falling career. That sounds good. It's like him and Jamie Kennedy and shit.

• 3:39:39Speaker 03

  Is he, is he right wing or is he?

• 3:39:41Griffin Newman?

  He's very hardcore.

• 3:39:42David Sims?

  He was like the first guy to endorse.

• 3:39:43Griffin Newman?

  And super, super.

• 3:39:45Speaker 03

  And Billy is left.

• 3:39:46David Sims?

  Billy, Billy seems to be normal.

• 3:39:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:39:49Griffin Newman?

  Billy is doing the best edible.

• 3:39:51David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah. And he's a good actor.

• 3:39:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, he is.

• 3:39:53David Sims?

  Billy Baldwin's a good actor.

• 3:39:54Speaker 03

  Is Billy the new Baldwin?

• 3:39:55Griffin Newman?

  Billy.

• 3:39:56Speaker 03

  Billy Baldwin's the Baldwin.

• 3:39:57Griffin Newman?

  I put forth the argument recently.

• 3:39:58David Sims?

  What if I pushed my chips in on Alec now?

• 3:40:01Griffin Newman?

  That Billy has by default become America's top Baldwin.

• 3:40:04Speaker 02

  I think so, yeah.

• 3:40:05David Sims?

  What about James? Or no, sorry, Daniel?

• 3:40:08Griffin Newman?

  Daniel's a heroin addict.

• 3:40:08David Sims?

  James Baldwin is the, the legendary novelist, of course, but it's not a Baldwin brother.

• 3:40:13Speaker 02

  Adam Baldwin, also not a Baldwin brother.

• 3:40:15David Sims?

  Right, but, and, but politics, A plus.

• 3:40:17Speaker 02

  He's great.

• 3:40:18David Sims?

  That was, Adam Baldwin was the first example of me following a celebrity on twitter.com back when Twitter was like, you know, posting pictures of your breakfast or whatever.

• 3:40:26Griffin Newman?

  And, and being like, oh, I love that guy.

• 3:40:28David Sims?

  Actor I like. And he was just all day like tweeting right wing shit. And I was like, oh, what a bummer to learn this.

• 3:40:34Griffin Newman?

  I almost sent this to you guys, but Deadline had a story the other day that was Daniel Baldwin joins cast of Jurassic Rebirth. And I was like, what? He was like, oh, they're making some fucking ripoff movie. David's point of the clock.

• 3:40:46Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 3:40:47Griffin Newman?

  Just called Jurassic Rebirth. And they're like, if we take the word world out.

• 3:40:51Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 3:40:52Griffin Newman?

  Will people mistakenly watch this?

• 3:40:54David Sims?

  That's good.

• 3:40:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:40:55David Sims?

  That's good. He, I think Daniel Baldwin, he's the star of, um, Cleaver.

• 3:40:59Griffin Newman?

  Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah.

• 3:41:00David Sims?

  In Sopranos.

• 3:41:00Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 3:41:01David Sims?

  He's the star, he's Tony Soprano.

• 3:41:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, no, uh, Daniel is.

• 3:41:04David Sims?

  Daniel is.

• 3:41:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:41:05David Sims?

  And it, it makes sense in world. You're like, yeah, that's who they could get.

• 3:41:10Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:41:10David Sims?

  Yeah. That's all.

• 3:41:12Griffin Newman?

  Uh, guys, thank you for being on the show. Thank you.

• 3:41:14Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 3:41:14David Sims?

  You guys got anything more to talk about? Hudson or Roxy?

• 3:41:16Speaker 02

  Uh, so we, I had a.

• 3:41:20David Sims?

  You had a coffee date like 45 minutes ago.

• 3:41:22Speaker 02

  Here, here's the thing. We, I scheduled something with a mutual friend.

• 3:41:26David Sims?

  Yeah, we gotta go, Griffin. Jesus.

• 3:41:28Griffin Newman?

  We gotta go. We gotta get to Mission Impossible.

• 3:41:29Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 3:41:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:41:31Speaker 02

  Um, uh, texted me fully, cause we're supposed to meet at, uh, 45 minutes ago, we're supposed to meet. Texted me fully 50 minutes ago. Any sense of how much longer you guys have box office game started at least? I replied that, that the box office game hasn't started yet, which it would not for another half hour. His response, response was, LMAO these motherfuckers.

• 3:41:52Griffin Newman?

  This is the one we work with, by the way.

• 3:41:54David Sims?

  I'm really sorry. I wanted to stand.

• 3:41:56Griffin Newman?

  Speaking of us with utter contempt.

• 3:41:58David Sims?

  Alright, I'm gonna pee again.

• 3:41:59Griffin Newman?

  Okay, David, thank you for being here. Everyone should listen to Doughboys if they're not already.

• 3:42:02David Sims?

  That's kind of years.

• 3:42:04Speaker 03

  I mean, it's very funny. We come on the show and you guys are both very smart and we're like, duh. And then we go off about dogs replacing humans in Beethoven movies. That's all we can really add to the conversation, but.

• 3:42:14Griffin Newman?

  We're very dumb.

• 3:42:16Speaker 03

  No, you guys are.

• 3:42:16Griffin Newman?

  And he likes to pretend like he's smart, like he's the wagger of the podcast.

• 3:42:20Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, I know. A wagger.

• 3:42:21Speaker 02

  He tries to pretend that he's smart.

• 3:42:23Griffin Newman?

  We figured it out.

• 3:42:24Speaker 02

  Mitch tries to pretend that he's dumb. He's actually a fucking genius.

• 3:42:26Griffin Newman?

  Fucking smart.

• 3:42:28Speaker 02

  And smart as shit.

• 3:42:29Griffin Newman?

  You know who else is really smart? Ben.

• 3:42:32Speaker 03

  Ben's right. No, he's smart as fuck.

• 3:42:34Griffin Newman?

  Ben is so fucking smart.

• 3:42:37Speaker 02

  Dude, he's so good. He's so good at playing it, dude, because he's wearing a cap and gown right now.

• 3:42:42Griffin Newman?

  He's holding a diploma.

• 3:42:46Speaker 02

  Motherfucker's a genius.

• 3:42:47Griffin Newman?

  From like a really good college.

• 3:42:49Speaker 03

  I just want to say that I really liked Hudsucker Proxy.

• 3:42:54Griffin Newman?

  I'm really happy you liked it.

• 3:42:55Speaker 02

  I, yeah, I loved revisiting it. Great movie.

• 3:42:58Griffin Newman?

  I wasn't worried you dislike it, but it's for me, it's such a vibe movie that I just enjoy so thoroughly that like, I didn't want to run the risk of you being like, yeah, it's cute. Like, you know.

• 3:43:08Speaker 03

  I defy Jay Sherman to say that Hudsucker Proxy stinks. That's what I say.

• 3:43:13Griffin Newman?

  I can't think of a more beautiful way to end this episode.

• 3:43:16Speaker 02

  I can, I can also say to anyone who hasn't watched this movie that it may be maybe this one you're like skipping over if you're not. I think this one's worth watching. I mean, like all the Tom Brothers movies are worth watching, but like, like I would not skip over this one. It's, it's.

• 3:43:28Griffin Newman?

  Visuals are.

• 3:43:29Speaker 02

  You might, yeah, you might end up absolutely loving it.

• 3:43:31Griffin Newman?

  I truly think there is no other movie that looks like this in history. And one of the best reviews I read that I'm now forgetting who wrote it and how to cite them said like, the technology had finally cut up where, and, and the budgets of Hollywood films had inflated to a point where they could make a screwball comedy that looked the way the dialogue used to sound. And everything was buzzing at that level. Thank you all for listening.

• 3:43:53Speaker 03

  Can I, can I just one last thing?

• 3:43:55Griffin Newman?

  Oh, please. Absolutely.

• 3:43:56Speaker 03

  Um, have you seen Hudsucker Proxy 2?

• 3:43:59Griffin Newman?

  No, I haven't yet, actually.

• 3:44:02Speaker 03

  It just might be confusing to some people who haven't.

• 3:44:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's weird that we've gone this long and haven't talked about the fact that there was a sequel.

• 3:44:08Speaker 03

  Okay, that's all.

• 3:44:09Griffin Newman?

  Is there anything you want to say about it?

• 3:44:11Speaker 03

  Just that it's the, you might be confused because.

• 3:44:16David Sims?

  The characters are dogs.

• 3:44:21Griffin Newman?

  Uh, please tune in next week for Fargo. Coen Brothers first Oscar win. And as always, and I know we've gone way too long, we gotta end the episode. But can I just ask one final question? What's more famous, hula hoop or Frisbee?

• 3:44:38David Sims?

  I think Frisbee.

• 3:44:40Griffin Newman?

  You think Frisbee's today is more famous than hula hoop?

• 3:44:43David Sims?

  It's part of games. No one's doing like hula hooping at college.

• 3:44:47Griffin Newman?

  Okay, but so then here's a question.

• 3:44:48David Sims?

  People do fro.

• 3:44:50Griffin Newman?

  What's more famous, games or toys?

• 3:44:54David Sims?

  He's sleeping.

• 3:44:57Griffin Newman?

  He's handing in his resignation papers?

• 3:45:07Speaker 01

  Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hostly. Our creative producer is Marie Bardy Salinas. And our associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by JJ Birch. Our theme song is by Lain Montgomery and the Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to BlankCheckPod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes.

• 3:45:52Speaker 01

  Follow us on social at Blank Check Pod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook, on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.