28 Years Later

Blank Check is going back to the British Isles with Danny Boyle, Alex Garland, and one extraordinarily well-endowed zombie this week as they discuss 28 Years Later. This movie has so much to love in it – wet bones, third-act Ralph Fiennes, Jodie Comer doing a thing, the Angel of the North, Teletubbies, the aforementioned well-endowed zombies, mind-bending digital photography, and did we mention THE WET BONES??? Be prepared for David to get REAL British, for Marie to cry on mic, for Griffin to bring up the manosphere, and for Ben to learn about Operation Yewtree. Gosh, we love this movie so much. Sign up for Check Book https://blankcheckpod.substack.com/welcome, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. http://www.patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter https://x.com/blankcheckpod?lang=en, Instagram https://www.instagram.com/blankcheckpod/?hl=en, Threads https://www.threads.net/@blankcheckpod?xmt=AQGzctAh4mbWTwYzCV1pzNT6AMV9o99EOfymi8TLR5mTde0 and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/blankcheckpodcast/! Buy some real nerdy merch https://kinshipgoods.com/blankcheck Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/blankies/s/gpcOkQr8Sv or Discord https://discord.gg/Q6YGSR3JrA For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com https://www.blankcheckpod.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 0:03David Sims?

  Yep.

• 0:03Griffin Newman?

  We did a live show.

• 0:04David Sims?

  Yeah, remember?

• 0:05Griffin Newman?

  Ranking Scorsese at the Bell House in Brooklyn. We did the definitive power ranking of Martin Scorsese things.

• 0:12David Sims?

  Uh, it was so fun. Uh, it was very silly.

• 0:15Griffin Newman?

  Ben and Marie were with us and they're with us right now.

• 0:18David Sims?

  Yeah. Hey.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Hey, everyone, or should I say, oh?

• 0:20David Sims?

  Oh.

• 0:22Griffin Newman?

  And thanks to our friends at Dynasty Typewriter. It was livestreamed for the first time ever. But also the replay is still up there, but only until October 30th.

• 0:31David Sims?

  So just a few more days.

• 0:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 0:33David Sims?

  You can get it at dynasty.tv.

• 0:36Griffin Newman?

  Dynasty.tv.

• 0:37David Sims?

  It's $20. We had a blast and the Spreadmaster really got to work.

• 0:43Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah. I was moving things around. Laptop was on.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  I don't know if I'd have seen you that happy.

• 0:48Griffin Newman?

  You were thrilled. You were like a pick and share.

• 0:50David Sims?

  I was locked in.

• 0:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, very locked in and you were funny.

• 0:53David Sims?

  Thank you. You were funny. You were also funny.

• 0:56Griffin Newman?

  Oh, thank you.

• 0:57David Sims?

  And if you want to see like, you know, Griffin's shine box on camera, it's the only way to see it.

• 1:02Griffin Newman?

  You might see me shine Marie's shoes.

• 1:04David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you're into that sort of content.

• 1:07Griffin Newman?

  If that gets you off.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:10David Sims?

  So once again, that's at dynasty.tv.

• 1:39Griffin Newman?

  120 podcasts later.

• 1:42David Sims?

  Oh, so you.

• 1:43Griffin Newman?

  It has been 120 episodes on main feed.

• 1:47David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:48Griffin Newman?

  Since we covered the Danny Boyle, 2002 in the UK, 2003 in the US, release 28 days later.

• 1:55Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:56David Sims?

  20.

• 1:57Griffin Newman?

  120 episodes.

• 1:59David Sims?

  Was it like a couple of years ago then?

• 2:00Griffin Newman?

  It's about, it's about two.

• 2:02Speaker 02

  2003?

• 2:03Griffin Newman?

  Uh, oh, oh.

• 2:04Speaker 02

  2023, yeah.

• 2:05Griffin Newman?

  2003 was the US release.

• 2:07Speaker 02

  Oh, no, I was like, I forgot the two.

• 2:09Griffin Newman?

  2023 was our podcast release. So we covered 28 days later, 20 years later.

• 2:19Griffin Newman?

  And now, two years later, we are covering 28 years later. And we were just talking off mic before we start recording, we all love math here.

• 2:29David Sims?

  We're just all, well, Ben, are you good at math?

• 2:31Griffin Newman?

  Looking at a group of math heads, you're listening to math heads right now.

• 2:34Speaker 03

  Not really.

• 2:35Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:36Speaker 03

  I always thought it was cool, though, the guys who got into like really abstract mathematics.

• 2:43Speaker 02

  Goodwill hunting shit?

• 2:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, I always thought that that, I always respected that.

• 2:47Griffin Newman?

  This is the most Ben answer.

• 2:49David Sims?

  He just likes people writing in hieroglyphics.

• 2:52Griffin Newman?

  Yes, totally. I know some math you're good at, Ben. Fucking the ones and zeros.

• 2:57Speaker 03

  True, you only need to know two numbers.

• 2:59Griffin Newman?

  That's the, the kind of key thing there.

• 3:02Speaker 03

  Right.

• 3:02Griffin Newman?

  You can tap out before you get to two.

• 3:04Speaker 03

  Two.

• 3:05Griffin Newman?

  Two.

• 3:05Speaker 03

  It's not an audio number.

• 3:07Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 3:08Speaker 03

  All right, there you go.

• 3:09David Sims?

  He admitted.

• 3:10Griffin Newman?

  He admitted. He admitted.

• 3:13Speaker 03

  Low energy start.

• 3:14Griffin Newman?

  No, it's a great start. I just had to start out with some math. You said to me, I don't even know if you know about that, talking about a bit that was set up. Right? And I came into the studio yesterday to pick up some stuff and noticed that our own producer Ben had very carefully and deliberately placed bones on each of our desks.

• 3:39David Sims?

  Bones!

• 3:39Speaker 02

  Oh my God, I didn't even.

• 3:41Speaker 03

  Bones.

• 3:42Griffin Newman?

  That's what you were referencing, right, David?

• 3:43Speaker 02

  I didn't even notice that you guys had bones too.

• 3:45Griffin Newman?

  We all have bones.

• 3:46David Sims?

  The reason that I thought Griffin might not have noticed is that he's got, and I'm not shaming him, a little bit of stuff on his desk, and it's a little more hidden from his view.

• 3:55Griffin Newman?

  I want to make my desk feel like home, but I came around the other side. When I walked in yesterday and I got a clear shot of the bones and Ben has really, he's made specific choices of who has what.

• 4:04David Sims?

  Yeah, what do I have exactly?

• 4:06Speaker 03

  I arranged the bones on each station and I, you know, I tried to kind of match each bone to each person, but I wanted to make Marie feel special, so she got the head of the skull.

• 4:17Griffin Newman?

  Let's just say, these are not human bones. I think the listener needs to know because they're not seeing this.

• 4:22Speaker 03

  Right.

• 4:22Griffin Newman?

  These are not human bones.

• 4:23Speaker 02

  These are not, it also, Ben, we played a bit of a guessing game where I tried to guess what animal these bones came from and I did not.

• 4:31David Sims?

  Took her a while.

• 4:32Speaker 02

  Worse, worse.

• 4:32David Sims?

  Took a few swings at it.

• 4:33Speaker 02

  Worse at that than I am at math.

• 4:35Griffin Newman?

  Do we have, do we have an answer?

• 4:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, we do.

• 4:37Speaker 02

  Yes, we do.

• 4:38Griffin Newman?

  These are pig bones?

• 4:39David Sims?

  And here's the other thing. I, not all of them, but the, the skull.

• 4:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 4:44David Sims?

  I can guarantee is a pig.

• 4:46Speaker 02

  If you saw this, would you think this is a pig skull?

• 4:48Griffin Newman?

  No, the problem is it looks like a giant rat skull.

• 4:51Speaker 02

  I thought it was a fox.

• 4:52Griffin Newman?

  But then, once you say pig, I, it makes sense.

• 4:55David Sims?

  Now, I also would like to add that I consumed that pig.

• 4:59Griffin Newman?

  What?

• 5:00David Sims?

  He had a whole thing.

• 5:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, so. Okay, let's just say, this is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. We're not moving away from this. I just think we need to do a little table setting on a fucking new release blockbuster movie episode before we get too deep in our own art.

• 5:14Speaker 02

  We are recording this episode within the Bone Temple.

• 5:18Griffin Newman?

  It is a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce, baby?

• 5:30Speaker 02

  Into the Bone Temple.

• 5:31Griffin Newman?

  Two years ago, we did a main series on the films of Danny Boyle, a very successful filmmaker, Best Picture, Best Director winner, has had hits, has had critically.

• 5:41David Sims?

  He's had hits and misses?

• 5:43Griffin Newman?

  Film.

• 5:43David Sims?

  He's got an Oscar.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  The only blank check director to have made an Olympic opening ceremony?

• 5:49David Sims?

  Well, Spielberg worked on the, the Chinese one.

• 5:52Griffin Newman?

  We, um. But he did a pass?

• 5:53David Sims?

  I think he, what, didn't he contribute to that in some way?

• 5:56Griffin Newman?

  He did like a Sin City special guest director.

• 5:58Speaker 02

  When I think of that, I think of the Beijing Olympics, I think of, uh, Zhong Yimao.

• 6:02David Sims?

  Zhong Yimao was obviously.

• 6:03Speaker 02

  He's the auteur. Danny Boyle was the auteur of London 2012.

• 6:06Griffin Newman?

  I'm backing you up here.

• 6:07Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 6:07David Sims?

  Absolutely. Well, I'm just, now I'm like, who, now I want to know though, who's done every Olympics opening ceremony?

• 6:13Griffin Newman?

  Uh, yeah. My point here is, we covered Danny Boyle, and at the time we covered him, it, like, his career had weirdly kind of ground to a halt.

• 6:23David Sims?

  It seemed in a bit of a sort of, what's he, yeah.

• 6:26Griffin Newman?

  Emblemetic.

• 6:27David Sims?

  What's his move?

• 6:28Griffin Newman?

  Of a larger issue in.

• 6:30David Sims?

  What's all this?

• 6:31Griffin Newman?

  The industry, where it's like, it's weird that he made yesterday. And I remember saying that to you at the time when it came out and you were like, he can't get anything else made. He's got to attach himself to a fucking.

• 6:42David Sims?

  He was gonna make that Methuselah movie.

• 6:44Griffin Newman?

  There's a lot of things that have been announced.

• 6:45David Sims?

  Right.

• 6:45Speaker 02

  He also did a lot of TV.

• 6:47Griffin Newman?

  He did two full seasons of FX shows.

• 6:49David Sims?

  That'll just, that'll just eat time.

• 6:52Speaker 03

  Wait, what shows?

• 6:53Speaker 02

  He did a Sex Pistols show.

• 6:54David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 6:55Speaker 03

  Oh, right. I forgot. I watched that. That was okay.

• 6:57Griffin Newman?

  Remember the movie All the Money in the World? The movie devoid of controversy and scandal.

• 7:02David Sims?

  I mean, we talked about this when we did the show. He did, right, the same thing.

• 7:07Griffin Newman?

  He did a TV show about the exact same thing that aired six months after that movie came out and bombed.

• 7:12David Sims?

  Well, yeah, that's, yeah, that's crazy.

• 7:14Griffin Newman?

  It was just a weird thing because we've covered directors where it's like, there's clearly a reason why they're in movie jail. Their career went off a ledge, right? They're like fighting a perception they can't kind of overcome, or directors who have died. And we were like, it is weird that Danny Boyle should still be in like the prime of his career and he just kind of feels a little stuck and on the bench. Uh, and, and we end that series by being like,

• 7:39Griffin Newman?

  it feels like they should just do another 28, right? And now here we are, it's happening.

• 7:44David Sims?

  I mean, but it was also, once Killian took the stage at the Oscars. I do feel like everyone was like, all right. Like making phone calls, being like, let's do some, some zombie shit.

• 7:54Griffin Newman?

  And yet today, we are talking about 28 years later, a movie that Killian Murphy does not appear in. He has an executive producer credit, but a thing that I don't think is being messaged very loudly to the public, and certainly Ben didn't know when we saw it, is that this is the first of a trilogy of new movies.

• 8:13David Sims?

  Planned trilogy.

• 8:13Griffin Newman?

  The second one is already in the can.

• 8:15David Sims?

  Yes.

• 8:16Griffin Newman?

  And the third one is scripted and is basically waiting on this film having a good opening weekend to officially get the green light.

• 8:22David Sims?

  And it was, since this film wasn't too expensive, I think, like, it won't take much.

• 8:27Griffin Newman?

  I think it's safe.

• 8:28David Sims?

  Right.

• 8:28Griffin Newman?

  I think it's safe, but, uh, Killian, uh, theoretically is in, introduced in the next one.

• 8:33David Sims?

  I don't think theoretically, they confirmed that.

• 8:35Griffin Newman?

  He's in it. He's in it.

• 8:36David Sims?

  I don't know how big his role. His role in it is smaller and then his role in the third one would be larger.

• 8:41Griffin Newman?

  But there is not a whisper of him in this.

• 8:43David Sims?

  Well, yeah, that's true. They had a scene where he found the Infinity Gauntlet.

• 8:47Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 8:48David Sims?

  But, uh, they cut it.

• 8:49Speaker 03

  And he went, I guess I'll have to do this myself.

• 8:51David Sims?

  I guess I'll have to do it, yeah.

• 8:53Griffin Newman?

  It's Killian pulling a fucking gauntlet out of a washing machine.

• 8:55David Sims?

  He did do it himself.

• 8:56Griffin Newman?

  He did do it himself.

• 8:57David Sims?

  I know. So I'm just saying like, do we give him enough credit?

• 9:00Griffin Newman?

  Well, David, you said himself. He did have his five children.

• 9:03David Sims?

  Of course.

• 9:03Griffin Newman?

  Proximal Midnight.

• 9:04David Sims?

  Yes.

• 9:05Griffin Newman?

  Ebony Maw.

• 9:06David Sims?

  Keep going.

• 9:08Griffin Newman?

  Call Obsidian?

• 9:09David Sims?

  I think so.

• 9:10Griffin Newman?

  And I-

• 9:10David Sims?

  Or Obsidian Call, it's one or the other.

• 9:12Griffin Newman?

  I'm tapped out. I know they're all-

• 9:14David Sims?

  Pretty good.

• 9:15Griffin Newman?

  All of them have, one word is a riff on Black.

• 9:18David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 9:19Griffin Newman?

  And the other word is some other nonsense.

• 9:21David Sims?

  Great.

• 9:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Anyway, Ben, pig bones that you ate.

• 9:25David Sims?

  Corvus clave.

• 9:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I was never gonna get that one. Gun to my head, I wasn't gonna get that one.

• 9:30David Sims?

  So my former roommate, Nate Patterson, who's also been helping out, he curates playlists that we put together at the end of each mini-series.

• 9:38Griffin Newman?

  Major friend of the show.

• 9:39Speaker 02

  He also made the chain display.

• 9:41Griffin Newman?

  Well, this is the thing. He made this piece of visual art for you that was a chain display that then at our art show got modified by him into being a chains and bone display.

• 9:49David Sims?

  I mean, it makes sense.

• 9:50Griffin Newman?

  So it's not like these bones came out of nowhere. These bones have been in the office, but it's part of a very controlled installation.

• 9:58David Sims?

  This is art, baby.

• 9:59Griffin Newman?

  It's art.

• 9:59Speaker 02

  Wait, so these, this was part of the, this was part of the chain installation?

• 10:02Griffin Newman?

  Right there. Look, you'll see it.

• 10:04Speaker 02

  Or are these brand new? No.

• 10:06David Sims?

  No, it was repurposed.

• 10:08Griffin Newman?

  You look at the chain display, it's low on bones.

• 10:10David Sims?

  I want to defend Spielberg. He pulled out of working on the 2008 opening Olympics ceremony because, in protest of China's support of violence in the Darfur region.

• 10:24Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 10:25David Sims?

  Um, but Ang Lee apparently also was possibly somewhat involved. He's an Oscar- but he wasn't the main auteur. I'm going through. Fernando Mireles did 2016, but he doesn't have a trophy, just a nom.

• 10:38Speaker 02

  But we also haven't covered him.

• 10:39Griffin Newman?

  He's a blank check director. That's the, that's the qualifier.

• 10:42David Sims?

  Oh, I was just talking about Oscar winners.

• 10:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 10:44David Sims?

  I'm just interested now.

• 10:45Griffin Newman?

  Both, both.

• 10:46David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 10:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 10:47David Sims?

  Just interesting.

• 10:48Griffin Newman?

  Uh, producer Ben Hossen.

• 10:50David Sims?

  Remember the French one when it was like wet?

• 10:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:52David Sims?

  It was just like raining all day?

• 10:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 10:53David Sims?

  And then Celine Dion showed up in the end and you were like, alright, she took it home.

• 10:56Griffin Newman?

  By the way, though, most French shit ever.

• 10:58Speaker 02

  It was so French. It was so French.

• 11:00Griffin Newman?

  If they had like hired Godard to like do the French ceremony, he'd be like, here's my pitch, it's just raining. And just do whatever you wanna do in spite of the rain. He would have made that happen in a controlled way.

• 11:12David Sims?

  Right, he would have somehow just glowered enough.

• 11:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, he also would have said, fuck you.

• 11:16David Sims?

  Yeah, well, that's more likely.

• 11:20Griffin Newman?

  What were you gonna say? Marie Barty party?

• 11:21Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I'm here. Um, no, not. I was just gonna say I like, I like the French opening ceremony. Remember where they had like a threesome at one point?

• 11:30David Sims?

  Yeah, that's right. And then all the, uh, the people got mad.

• 11:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was cool.

• 11:34David Sims?

  It was too Libby.

• 11:36Speaker 02

  It was so Libby.

• 11:37Griffin Newman?

  They were cutting to the crowds and everyone was struggling to light their cigarettes.

• 11:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:40David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 11:41Speaker 02

  They're the little Assassin's Creed man with the torch.

• 11:44Griffin Newman?

  I forgot about that.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  Carcass.

• 11:45David Sims?

  That's right.

• 11:47Speaker 02

  That was so cool.

• 11:48David Sims?

  You know what? Good job, friends.

• 11:49Griffin Newman?

  Friends killed it.

• 11:49Speaker 02

  We love friends.

• 11:50David Sims?

  Aren't we next?

• 11:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:52David Sims?

  That's good.

• 11:53Speaker 02

  Well, but you know, do you know what we did as like our show of like, all right, we're, we're bringing it home to America, baby.

• 11:59David Sims?

  The torch or whatever.

• 12:00Speaker 02

  We had Tom Cruise fucking jump into the stadium and then land on the Hollywood sign.

• 12:05Griffin Newman?

  Oh, wait. Great news, though. I'm seeing they've hired a major filmmaker. No, I was gonna say America's greatest auteur, uh, Roston Marshall Thurber.

• 12:16David Sims?

  I just think it'd be funny if it was Macquarie and he was like, oh, I've cracked the ceremony. I cracked it already. It's gonna have 18 flashbacks.

• 12:23Speaker 02

  No, there's gonna be no plan. We'll figure it out.

• 12:26David Sims?

  We'll explain all the rings being united together over and over and over again.

• 12:30Griffin Newman?

  Right. Cut to four years later, 8,000 hours of podcasting that all also sound like therapy sessions. Where he's like, the mistake I made was I was trying to figure out how to not do the torch.

• 12:41David Sims?

  There is no.

• 12:42Griffin Newman?

  Said, is there a way to skip the torch? And then in post realized, we've made a terrible mistake. I have to undo this.

• 12:48David Sims?

  Nobody has more turned into a corn cob than Christopher Macquarie doing that fucking Empire Magazine, like Final Reckoning podcast.

• 12:57Griffin Newman?

  And also Happy Sad Confused and also Light the Fuse.

• 12:59David Sims?

  Those I haven't listened to, but I listened to the Empire one, which I said I wasn't going to. And then you were like, David, you gotta. And I was like, I think I gotta, I think I gotta hear like what's going on.

• 13:07Griffin Newman?

  I, I basically now started taking the hits and then you just go text me the highlights.

• 13:12David Sims?

  Well, cause you're doing all the other one, right?

• 13:13Griffin Newman?

  I'm just fast. I feel like I'm finally getting answers, but Ben, you ate the pig.

• 13:19Speaker 03

  Right. We really need to close out that important.

• 13:22Speaker 02

  You ate the pig.

• 13:24Speaker 03

  We had a pig roast in our backyard.

• 13:28Speaker 03

  And then, you know, the next day I come home from work and the apartment kind of stinks. And I'm like, what the fuck? And then Nate presents to me a clean, wet pig skull.

• 13:41David Sims?

  Which apartment was this?

• 13:43Speaker 03

  When I was in Williamsburg.

• 13:45Speaker 02

  Oh, so these are old ass bones.

• 13:46David Sims?

  This is a long time ago.

• 13:46Griffin Newman?

  These are old bones.

• 13:47Speaker 02

  These are old bones.

• 13:48Griffin Newman?

  And he just sat.

• 13:48David Sims?

  You know what else are old bones? These bones right here.

• 13:51Speaker 03

  Hey.

• 13:51David Sims?

  Old bones.

• 13:51Speaker 03

  Geez, don't get me started.

• 13:53David Sims?

  Waking up achy.

• 13:54Speaker 02

  Someone's got a birthday coming up.

• 13:56Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 13:57David Sims?

  Yep.

• 13:58Griffin Newman?

  Well, look, very on topic, because this is a movie that has some of the best on-screen skull washing I have ever seen.

• 14:05Speaker 03

  Incredible.

• 14:06Griffin Newman?

  Incredible.

• 14:07Speaker 02

  Incredible.

• 14:08Griffin Newman?

  Incredible.

• 14:08Speaker 03

  This is probably peak wet skull.

• 14:11Griffin Newman?

  There, Ben, am I correct in saying you did not know that much going into this movie?

• 14:17Speaker 03

  I heard whispers.

• 14:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 14:19Speaker 03

  What were the whispers?

• 14:20David Sims?

  Bone Temple.

• 14:22Griffin Newman?

  Now, of course.

• 14:23Speaker 03

  As he walked into the regal, the guy took your ticket and you were like, thank you. He's like, it's Peter 17 bones.

• 14:30Griffin Newman?

  I'm sorry, what's that?

• 14:32Speaker 03

  Also concessions are only on this floor.

• 14:36Griffin Newman?

  Ben, you don't usually care about collectible popcorn buckets, but you were yelling at the regal employees that there was no collectible Bone Temple popcorn.

• 14:44Speaker 03

  I grabbed them by his shirt collar and lifted it.

• 14:46David Sims?

  Is there not a collectible bucket?

• 14:48Griffin Newman?

  I don't think there's anything.

• 14:49David Sims?

  It does. Maybe, did they like pitch that to Danny Boyle? He's like, you what?

• 14:53Griffin Newman?

  Maybe we don't need a bone.

• 14:54Speaker 02

  I think this, I think there's so much in this film that is like so profound that it would like cheapen almost.

• 15:01David Sims?

  Yeah, there's always a risk with these popcorn buckets that, right, you're interfering thematically.

• 15:06Griffin Newman?

  David, David vessels. We've changed the language to vessels.

• 15:10Speaker 02

  But in a way, calling it a vessel makes it a little more respectful. Like, that feels more in tune with the way this movie feels about, like, death, the body, and what remains.

• 15:20Griffin Newman?

  Yes. I, yes, I agree. This is a movie, you and Marie sat together, Ben and I sat together. It ends, I look over my shoulder, I, I see that six rows behind us, David is literally dancing in the aisle. And I turn to Ben and I go, he's vibrating. You were so on cloud nine and I felt it like 20 minutes in, I was like, fuck, he's gonna be losing it. This is the simsiest shit. It's checking every box.

• 15:51David Sims?

  That's interesting. I mean, I agree with you both. So, okay, what are the boxes that you felt it check?

• 15:55Speaker 03

  Extremely British.

• 15:56Speaker 02

  It's so, this is so British.

• 15:59Griffin Newman?

  And not just extremely British, but it is like, in a way, I need you to kind of parse, because I could tell it was doing stuff and I knew I didn't have the algorithm to solve all of it. But in the way that I feel Danny Boyle does a lot is like-

• 16:12David Sims?

  You didn't have like a Podcova.

• 16:14Griffin Newman?

  Is about British culture, like is-

• 16:16David Sims?

  Right.

• 16:16Griffin Newman?

  Has like insight, isn't just like depicting Britishness.

• 16:19David Sims?

  Right.

• 16:20Griffin Newman?

  It's sort of like interrogating.

• 16:22Speaker 02

  It feels like a specific type of British, because it felt very like northern.

• 16:26David Sims?

  Yes, it's set where I went to college.

• 16:29Speaker 02

  Which-

• 16:29David Sims?

  Although I then said that to someone, they went, you go to college at the Bone Temple? I thought that was funny.

• 16:35Griffin Newman?

  Full scholarship, right?

• 16:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. I just, I want to acknowledge my privilege in that sitting next to David for this movie really added like a 4DX element.

• 16:45Griffin Newman?

  It was a 4DX experience.

• 16:46Speaker 02

  That, you know, I pity everyone else who's not going to sit next to David.

• 16:52David Sims?

  It's fun to sit next to Marie, who basically anytime anyone like walked in one direction was just like,

• 16:57Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 16:58David Sims?

  What's going on? Like, what's gonna happen?

• 17:00Speaker 02

  I was, I was, I was freaking out. And he, like, David was like, it's okay, you know, you can Babadook, not Babadook.

• 17:07David Sims?

  Yeah, um, Skinamarink.

• 17:08Speaker 02

  Skinamarink it if you need to, because I like-

• 17:11Griffin Newman?

  You are, as you famously watch Skinamarink largely from inside your jacket, as you described it to us.

• 17:17Speaker 02

  You can put your headphones in and just, you know, hide inside your jacket and you'll be fine. And I'm like, I can't do that for this podcast. Like, I have to pay, my eyes need to be, I need to witness this film.

• 17:29Griffin Newman?

  I also, I think this movie, I mean, maybe you're gonna push back on this. I think this movie is intense.

• 17:34Speaker 02

  It is.

• 17:35Griffin Newman?

  I don't think it's like profoundly scary.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  It's, it-

• 17:39David Sims?

  No, I would agree. Well, it's, it can be disturbing.

• 17:43Speaker 02

  That's disturbing, but there aren't like the jump scares where it's super quiet, like there-

• 17:47David Sims?

  There's a few.

• 17:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:49David Sims?

  There's a few kind of the-

• 17:49Speaker 02

  Like, okay, the zombies are gonna end.

• 17:51David Sims?

  And then it goes.

• 17:53Griffin Newman?

  I think it is very visceral and it's also very like emotionally intense.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  I cried.

• 17:58Griffin Newman?

  And the combination of those two things, it's definitely holding you in a space of like in intense sensitivity the entire time, but it's not a movie that's like doing things to make you go like, ah, it like once every 10 minutes. It is a movie that is keeping you in that.

• 18:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, it's, it's, it, I think we, we were kind of trying to figure out why Sony kept the embargo on this movie for so long.

• 18:25Griffin Newman?

  Well, let's also say that we saw many of our, our friends, past and future guests of this show were in attendance at the same screening we went to. Thank you, the folks at Sony Pictures for helping us see this a little early so that we could get this episode out quickly. And you're literally still dancing while we're outside on the street in Union Square. And then like Ehrlich would walk by and he was like, yeah, I'm trying to get my head around it. And you'd go like, fuck you.

• 18:51David Sims?

  I mean, it's a problem.

• 18:52Griffin Newman?

  Like, it's interesting. And you were like, nope, bye.

• 18:56David Sims?

  That is the thing that I deal with a lot. Uh, right. And you guys don't see me at press screenings where like, if I am really high on a movie, I do not, right? You've seen like, I do not want especially my good and dear friend who I truly love and sometimes a bit too mean about on this podcast, David Ehrlich.

• 19:11Griffin Newman?

  You did say out loud, fuck Ehrlich.

• 19:15David Sims?

  Coming near me and being like, because sometimes David will outright dislike the movie. And you know, be like, oh yeah. And I'm just like, no, no, no, bad vibes. They're like, shoot, shoot, shoot. You know, because I really just want to walk out of there in a little egg, like Lady Gaga.

• 19:29Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 19:30David Sims?

  And go home in my egg and then hatch out of my egg and write down my thoughts later or whatever.

• 19:34Griffin Newman?

  Right. Or like Mork from Mork. But I think, uh, I like this movie tremendously. I have, uh, one, uh, pumping point on it that we'll talk about surely. Probably soon, but it is incredibly weird. It is a weird film. It is an odd film in every sense, but especially within the framework of like, hell yeah, finally Danny Boyle returns. He's just not trying, it's not a victory lap movie. It's not a like, safe kind of, I'm going back to the proven franchise and doing the same thing again.

• 20:09David Sims?

  But I would say, obviously he's done this once before. He made T2 Trainspotting. This movie is more straightforwardly entertaining. No question. Than that was. That was a real kind of like, oh, you wanted this or that from a Trainspotting sequel? You're not gonna get it.

• 20:25Speaker 02

  I also feel like this can exist. I mean, maybe we'll see how Killian's character comes back.

• 20:32David Sims?

  I think you're right.

• 20:32Speaker 02

  But this movie does feel like it exists on its own without the legacy of the previous films.

• 20:38David Sims?

  My brother asked me this on behalf of a friend, being like, hey, my friend's never seen 28 Days. Like, does he need to? And I'm like, no.

• 20:43Speaker 02

  No, I mean, you should watch it because it fucking rules.

• 20:45David Sims?

  But like, I was like, I'm sure he knows the other basics of like, there was a zombie thing. That's all you need to know.

• 20:50Griffin Newman?

  I ran into friend of the podcast, uh, past, very recent past and future guest Hillary Bucis online for popcorn.

• 20:57David Sims?

  We love her and she was there, of course.

• 20:59Griffin Newman?

  And she said, like, I just watched 28 Days for the first time. So I'm like buzzing about ready to go this.

• 21:04Speaker 02

  Sandra Bullock movie?

• 21:06Griffin Newman?

  Later. Uh, and, uh, she was like, I saw 28 Days opening weekend in theaters. Um, but then was like, I didn't get to Weeks. I, do you think that's gonna be a problem? And I said to Hillary, I would be astounded if anything in this movie directly ties into Weeks in any important way. And I was like, and by the way, I saw Weeks in theaters. We rewatched it for the podcast two years ago. If they made a vague Weeks connection, I don't think I'd pick up on it. And this movie really does kind of stand on its own. I just want, I want to say.

• 21:40David Sims?

  It makes one reference to Weeks, which I think is mostly Garland cleaning something up that he doesn't like from Week.

• 21:45Griffin Newman?

  Undoing the Paris thing, right? Yeah. Yeah. Which, that ending also felt very tacked on as a like.

• 21:51David Sims?

  In Weeks, totally. It's just like, okay, if you want another one of these, like.

• 21:54Griffin Newman?

  Let's see something for the future. That is, that is my only issue with this movie is I am like so fundamentally over the multi-part sequel thing. I admire how much this movie really largely stands on its own.

• 22:09David Sims?

  It tells a full story, I would say.

• 22:11Griffin Newman?

  It, the, the actual ending of the movie is very much. A like Marvel post credits.

• 22:17David Sims?

  Would it be better if it was post credits?

• 22:20Griffin Newman?

  I don't know. We were having that discussion right.

• 22:22David Sims?

  Because everyone's so sick of the post credits, right?

• 22:24Griffin Newman?

  I am philosophically sick of the post credits and yet, once it happened, I'm like, I would kind of rather, the movie has a really good emotional resolution that doesn't close any doors, that is clearly setting you up in a way where you're like, I'd be really excited to see what happens next with this character. But then the ending is a direct tee up of, here's what we're gonna pick up from next time? That feels a little like the ending of an episode of Lost, right? Like a crazy thing.

• 22:52David Sims?

  Hundred percent.

• 22:53Griffin Newman?

  You emotionally resolve the conflict of that episode and then a crazy thing happens in the last two minutes. Ben doesn't know that they have a sequel in a can. He turns to me and he goes, well, that ending was cool, but I kinda wish I could watch a whole movie of that. And I went, Ben, I got great news for you. It's coming in six months.

• 23:06Speaker 02

  Directed by a friend of the pod, Neil DeCosta.

• 23:09Griffin Newman?

  And not only that, I said to Ben, and guess what it's fucking called? Twenty-eight years later, part two, The Bone Temple. And now Ben is in the aisles, dancing, telling Erlik to fuck off. I didn't have the 4DX experience of the two of you being able to jam on their, each other's body energy. I did have the moment where I turned to Ben and I, I hit him and I went, look, and the camera pans out as you see how significant The Bone Temple is, in particular, the pillar. And Ben just did like Spielberg face. And I felt like he was on the verge of crying and then just kind of, maybe without breaking eye contact from the screen, leaned over to me and said, that's a lot of bones.

• 23:51Speaker 02

  So many bones, but, oh my God, to see them, it's, it's just, it's so moving.

• 23:56Griffin Newman?

  It's moving.

• 23:57Speaker 02

  It's so moving.

• 23:58David Sims?

  It, that's why it rocks.

• 24:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:00David Sims?

  The, the route, one take, obviously, is like, Mountains of Skulls.

• 24:05Griffin Newman?

  Cool iconography.

• 24:06David Sims?

  News, though.

• 24:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 24:07David Sims?

  Right? You know?

• 24:08Griffin Newman?

  Or also just cool visual idea. They, it's prominent in the marketing. It's like the centerpiece of most of the posters. The trailer, which like kinda broke fucking YouTube records. This trailer like wildly.

• 24:21Speaker 02

  I just wanna shout out, someone sent us a DM on Instagram after I posted our, a story on our account from the screening, saying that they're a listener and they helped cut the trailer.

• 24:31David Sims?

  Well, the trailer was so good that Boyle put that, um, you know, piece of. The radio, whatever you want to call it, the, the, the broadcast of the Roger Kipling poem in the movie because of the trailer.

• 24:44Griffin Newman?

  Oh, interesting.

• 24:44David Sims?

  It wasn't in the movie. That rocks. Wait, let's just put it in like, cause that whole sequence in the movie where it's in there is just kind of him being like, well, I loved the vibe.

• 24:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. That's the interesting thing is that the trailer was, forgive me for being a little lofty here, kind of just like a tone poem. Like people were jamming on it, but when we sat down in the theater, I realized right as the lights went down.

• 25:05David Sims?

  I don't know what this is about.

• 25:05Griffin Newman?

  I actually don't know. I know the three actors above the title.

• 25:08David Sims?

  I knew there was the one thing I knew was there was like a colony on an island.

• 25:12Griffin Newman?

  And as good as the trailer was, I was not like re-washing the trailer going like, I wonder what this is. I like let it wash over me and I was like, yeah, it looks cool. And then I sit down and I'm like, I know Fines, Taylor Johnson and Jodie Comer in this. I know Killian isn't, and I know Bones are involved. And I actually don't know how this is going to play out. And it is a movie that is like, kind of unconventionally plotted. And I kept every 15 minutes going like, I actually don't know what the spine of this movie is.

• 25:40David Sims?

  What's the next act?

• 25:41Griffin Newman?

  Right. I do think that's part of maybe their like embargo fear.

• 25:44Speaker 02

  This is what I was going to get at is when we were trying to figure out why they held the embargo for so long, it wasn't because they didn't want people to know that the main character of the movie was an unknown 12 year old.

• 25:58David Sims?

  I think there's some spoiler fear.

• 26:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:01David Sims?

  And I think studios can kind of talk themselves out of building buzz for a movie with that.

• 26:06Griffin Newman?

  There are no like crazy twists in this movie, but it is a movie that kind of plays off you being like, I don't know where this is going next.

• 26:14David Sims?

  So I sort of get that.

• 26:15Griffin Newman?

  And I like, right, that feeling of like, not only is the marketing not telling you that the little boy is the main character, the movie starts and you're not sure if he's the main character. He's certainly central, but by the end of the movie, he is the guy.

• 26:27Speaker 02

  I, I was like 90% sure as we were watching the first third of the movie that we would never go back to the island again. Uh, that it would just be like a survival thing with Aaron Taylor Johnson and, uh, and the little boy and Jodie Comer would, I don't know.

• 26:45Griffin Newman?

  I found this whole aspect of it thrilling. I'm watching it going like, I don't know where this is going. I don't understand like exactly what the utility of all these characters are yet. The world building is so incredible, which is a thing where I'm just like Sims must be buzzing.

• 27:01David Sims?

  But it's also a salute to Garland. Like, well, we have a lot to talk about here, but, uh, I just think Garland is so good at that stuff. This movie, I was, so I was talking with a friend of the show, Chris Ryan, past some future guests, because he texts me being like, you've seen it, right? We gotta talk about it, you know? And we were both saying like Garland as writer for hire, essentially. I've missed it a little bit. I like what he does. I like, he's doing interesting stuff. I was, but I kinda like putting some genre guardrails around the guy and being like, you can still be weird.

• 27:34Speaker 02

  I'm just gonna say it like, there's some deeply disturbing shit in the text of this movie. And I feel like Danny Boyle does bring like a sensitivity and a heart.

• 27:45Griffin Newman?

  Yes, there's an emotional filmmaker.

• 27:47Speaker 02

  Which Garland doesn't do, and that's what.

• 27:51David Sims?

  Well, I think Garland has a very bleak, dim.

• 27:53Griffin Newman?

  He's clinical. He's very clinical.

• 27:56Speaker 02

  I feel like you gotta, you gotta meet somewhere.

• 27:58Griffin Newman?

  No, I agree.

• 28:00David Sims?

  But that's why I'm like, look, Garland, when he's doing his own thing, it's a totally different vibe and that's fine. Hey, I support.

• 28:06Griffin Newman?

  We like it.

• 28:07David Sims?

  I think that, you know, privileged British guys who grew up in a lot with a lot of culture around them should be making movies all the time. No, I do like his movies a lot. And, but then it, right. It's so interesting to see this former collaborator of his taking on one of his works again. And you're like, right, this was a secret sauce for a reason. Like.

• 28:25Griffin Newman?

  And by the way, like this movie starts, it's 28 years later. It doesn't spend time holding your hand and explaining to you what's happened in between. I think it very elegantly.

• 28:34David Sims?

  It does. It gives you what you need to know over the course of the movie very, very well.

• 28:39Griffin Newman?

  But it is my favorite kind of like commercial filmmaking where it's like, it trusts the audience to be like, we're gonna show you stuff and let you. Fill in the blanks and you can fill in the blanks really clearly, right? But there's no fucking info dump.

• 28:53Speaker 02

  No, we do, but I do want to say we don't start on 28 years later. We do have the prologue.

• 28:59David Sims?

  We do, yeah.

• 28:59Speaker 02

  Which we need to talk about.

• 29:01David Sims?

  We'll talk about it. We'll talk about it.

• 29:02Speaker 02

  No, because we need to talk about, okay, do the joke and then we have to go into the Teletubby.

• 29:06David Sims?

  Why did nobody go to an aircraft carrier, though? And write down like, give an envelope that had like, uh, the first of November, 2002 written down. You know what I mean? And they open it and it says that.

• 29:16Griffin Newman?

  Information's the death of emotion. This is my case is this movie just hits the ground running and you're filling in the gaps. And the things you don't have immediate answers to are engaging where you're trying to suss out like, so what is happening here? I think the core animating idea in this movie, which is so obvious, but I didn't think about it, even when it was announced is like, if it's been 28 years later, this means that like, this is set in a world in which we didn't solve the problem, but we have figured out a way to rebuild culture around it, right? The idea that we're

• 29:49Speaker 02

  We can live with it.

• 29:50Griffin Newman?

  That we're building this movie around a little boy and you're like, this is the second generation of children to be born into this world.

• 29:58David Sims?

  Right.

• 29:59Griffin Newman?

  You start the movie with a prologue set basically concurrent with the first film. That is kids who are experiencing the rage virus overtake. And then you jump ahead 28 years and here's a little kid who like theoretically is the children of.

• 30:15Speaker 02

  The children.

• 30:15Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 30:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:17David Sims?

  Yes, I guess, like, how old is A T J?

• 30:20Speaker 02

  I think he and I are the same, around the same age.

• 30:22Griffin Newman?

  They're young parents. I mean.

• 30:23David Sims?

  No, no, I know, I know. But right. So to be like, if you think.

• 30:27Griffin Newman?

  He and Joe DeComer, I like, maybe they're playing younger or maybe they're playing people who were five when the rage.

• 30:32David Sims?

  That's what I'm saying. If Aaron Darrow Johnson is playing his age, he's playing someone who's about 10, 11. And right. And so he did live life before, uh, the apocalypse, but only a little.

• 30:43Griffin Newman?

  Right. They're like the Teletubby kids.

• 30:45Speaker 02

  Yes. So.

• 30:45Griffin Newman?

  They sure are.

• 30:46Speaker 02

  So Teletubby.

• 30:47David Sims?

  And every, uh, weeks also begins in the same, like every movie in this series has begun with a vision of the apocalypse and then cut to black and then 28 applause later.

• 30:57Griffin Newman?

  Also, I just found it like in, in our weird world and the weird years that we've lived through, right? When people go like in a post pandemic and people go like, eh, eh, eh, we're still in the pandemic. And you're like, right.

• 31:09David Sims?

  That sounds like a Teletubby noise.

• 31:13Griffin Newman?

  That's what this movie is of just like something seismic happens. There's no actual hard endpoint to it. We start to figure out like, what is the balance of like, what aspects of life can we bring back? And what has changed us forever? You know, and like this movie just drops you into that. And you're looking at all of what's happening, the things the characters are doing, the actual way the landscape reads on camera. And you're going like, oh, fuck. So this, they must've made this decision 10 years ago. This stuff that just fucking animates the brain.

• 31:46Speaker 02

  It's a movie about how to live with death and pain and tragedy surrounding you and how the ways in which you can, you can build a life around it. You can resort to violence. You can resort to like militarism.

• 32:04Griffin Newman?

  And so like what happens?

• 32:06Speaker 02

  Or you can resort to what, to bone temples.

• 32:10Griffin Newman?

  It's almost like a post, post apocalyptic movie, right?

• 32:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:14Griffin Newman?

  It's like, okay, so like societal collapse happens and then rebuilt. You know, and we're like, starting this movie in the reset. And when you realize that's the landscape and that the movie's not going to explain it all, you're like, I totally get why they said, hey, we got three movies ready to go. Because there's so much you can do here. And this movie kind of focuses on one central emotional story that is a good prism for that as its spine. But as we said, it doesn't even touch on Killian Murphy. At the end, it tees up a whole nother idea of things where you're like, right? Of course this would happen too. I think we all think it's quite a good film.

• 32:51David Sims?

  I think it's a total triumph.

• 32:52Speaker 02

  I love this movie.

• 32:53David Sims?

  And I really like it for all the story stuff that you're talking about, but it also just looks so interesting and cool. And it's like. Again, the Danny Boyle thing, which was slightly absent in yesterday. I will, you know, we, we all felt a little thrown by yesterday, but generally his whole thing of like, okay, I want to think about a million cool ways to depict all this stuff that you're giving me, right? Like, I'm not just gonna do, you know, whatever, whatever's expected of a zombie movie. I want to like flip, you know, the visuals as much as I can.

• 33:25Speaker 02

  The colors are so vivid, like.

• 33:28David Sims?

  And that crazy motherfucker, Anthony Dodd Mantle.

• 33:30Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, fucking Dodd Mantle, man, like, whoa.

• 33:34Griffin Newman?

  This movie was exclusively shot on iPhones, which I find so fast.

• 33:38David Sims?

  Although they say like with.

• 33:41Griffin Newman?

  Lenses and rigs and right, but the, but the base of it is all iPhones. And of course, like 28 years or 28 days is one of the original.

• 33:49Speaker 02

  Filmed on a potato.

• 33:50Griffin Newman?

  Right. Filmed on a potato movies that look so fucking bad. Now it's so funny. They announced a 4K steelbook and I'm like, what is that going to be?

• 33:57David Sims?

  But looking bad, as we talked about on that episode, it's so part of.

• 34:01Griffin Newman?

  It's a value. But even that shift of like, at the time, the aesthetic experiment was film on the worst thing possible. And now quote unquote, the worst thing possible.

• 34:12Speaker 02

  Looks so good.

• 34:13Griffin Newman?

  Looks so fucking good.

• 34:14Speaker 02

  It looks better than like 90% of bigger budget digitally shot.

• 34:19Griffin Newman?

  Colors in this movie alone, you're like, what is the excuse for movies that are shot on like the fucking most expensive cameras in the world, all looking like fucking wet concrete? And this is like a movie that's like set in the post apocalypse and you and I were just outside the theater being like, the greens.

• 34:36Speaker 02

  The greens, the reds, the reds, the blues. My God, it's, it's so beautiful.

• 34:41Griffin Newman?

  But there was this, it went viral, but this image from filming of this insane rig they made where they surrounded one of the zombies.

• 34:49David Sims?

  This sort of, it's sort of like a budget bullet time.

• 34:51Griffin Newman?

  And Ben was like, what was that? And I was like, it's like broken bullet time on purpose.

• 34:56David Sims?

  Cause it's very choppy. Yes. Well, cause the idea of bullet time obviously is like they're in a green screen and they have a million cameras that could, takes a picture of every single frame.

• 35:06Griffin Newman?

  Fluid and then you also slow it down. Yeah.

• 35:10David Sims?

  But this was like, right. If we basically just like take two pictures, you know, in a chain, the skipping is also so cool. It felt like a Mortal Kombat.

• 35:18Speaker 02

  It felt like video, it felt like video games, but it didn't feel like The Last of Us is a video game. It felt like, um, when they do that scene in the beach. Where he becomes like, isn't there like a moment in the beach where it's like a video game style like Leonardo DiCaprio is like running?

• 35:34David Sims?

  Oh, the movie The Beach.

• 35:35Griffin Newman?

  I thought you were talking about, yes, yes.

• 35:37Speaker 02

  Like, and it's very like Game Boy.

• 35:39Griffin Newman?

  Yes. This movie does feel very video game inspired to me and I, I, I think that's a thing to talk about at some point, but yes, like that feels like, and Ben was like, what was, what was that? And I'm just like, Danny Paul is like fucking 65 now?

• 35:52David Sims?

  Uh, I can look at it.

• 35:53Griffin Newman?

  Who else like works at his level and is actually thinking?

• 35:56David Sims?

  68.

• 35:57Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 35:57David Sims?

  Yo bastard.

• 35:59Griffin Newman?

  But like.

• 35:59David Sims?

  And he's still like getting cool music and right, like finding new visual tricks.

• 36:03Griffin Newman?

  But also not just visual tricks, but it feels like every time, maybe so of yesterday, he is going like, why are we limited to like a set language?

• 36:13Speaker 02

  What is the most interesting way we can do this?

• 36:16Griffin Newman?

  Break things and remake things and like explore, like it always just feels like he's exploring.

• 36:22David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 36:22Griffin Newman?

  New boundaries.

• 36:23David Sims?

  And also, you know, to defend him on yesterday or whatever, like Dodd Mantle didn't even shoot that movie and I'm sure he wasn't like, I need to write, put the camera in a blender for this one.

• 36:31Griffin Newman?

  All my problems with that movie, that movie looks great.

• 36:33David Sims?

  It's fine. It's just, it's also just not a movie where you need it to look a little more straightforward.

• 36:37Griffin Newman?

  It's more on rails. That's the work of Richard Curtis.

• 36:39David Sims?

  And then T2 Trainspotting, honestly, I remember having some cool like ideas.

• 36:45Griffin Newman?

  That has some great stuff.

• 36:46David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 36:46Griffin Newman?

  The ending shot in particular is unbelievable.

• 36:48David Sims?

  Right, right. But, but it's still a more muted, uh, obviously.

• 36:52Griffin Newman?

  He's also riffing on a, a kind of visual and editing language that he created.

• 36:58David Sims?

  Yes.

• 36:58Griffin Newman?

  Right. He's, he's returning to.

• 37:00David Sims?

  I feel like this is him being like, look, if I'm gonna do another 28 Days Later, that movie was so visually challenging and I was trying, like, I can't just, I gotta try stuff again. And I can't just do like weird DV grain, you know, like I did last time, cause that would feel like.

• 37:17Griffin Newman?

  DV grain was like, well, this makes it feel apocalyptic or making a movie.

• 37:21David Sims?

  Great idea.

• 37:21Griffin Newman?

  Right. And then this is like, in a way that syncs up with the themes of the movie, like society has moved on.

• 37:28David Sims?

  Nature has returned.

• 37:29Griffin Newman?

  The consumer camera is now good enough to actually shoot a movie on that doesn't look like potato.

• 37:33David Sims?

  That, that's true, but also it's like a movie where like they're going back to the mainland and it's like, there aren't people here anymore. It's beautiful. And like, and scary. Little scary, but like, I want to capture the beauty of like this like apocalypse of like, yeah, people are gone.

• 37:49Griffin Newman?

  But this almost sort of

• 37:50David Sims?

  Might look nice.

• 37:51Griffin Newman?

  Video game structure of

• 37:52David Sims?

  Occasional

• 37:53Griffin Newman?

  Right. The only sort of title card table setting happens at the very beginning where they say like, they quarantine the mainland. People have built rebuilt sort of society is on the fringes. It is this weird sort of modern day medieval sort of like small village.

• 38:09David Sims?

  Like feudal.

• 38:10Griffin Newman?

  Society. Yes. Yes. Without like totally losing all our trapping. So the kid still lives in a house with a bedroom that has posters on the wall and Power Rangers action figures.

• 38:19David Sims?

  Right. But it all, all of that stuff is frozen.

• 38:22Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 38:23David Sims?

  In the, right. In the late nineties.

• 38:24Griffin Newman?

  He's inheriting. Right. And, and also like Boyle is cutting in these comparison points. He's showing you footage of like depictions of medieval culture and movies, right?

• 38:35David Sims?

  That the Henry the fifth stuff.

• 38:37Griffin Newman?

  That we've like kind of gone tribal a little bit. Um, and basically there is this video game structure to society, which is like the quarantined area, like our, our children age to a point where they can graduate, where they can elect to say, basically, I want to enter the battlefield. And it's kind of like mowing the lawn, right? These people go past the gates with bows and arrows and just try to see if they can knock down some zombies.

• 39:06David Sims?

  And also you guys would know this, but essentially where they are is Lindisfarne.

• 39:11Griffin Newman?

  This is what I need. I need you to break.

• 39:12David Sims?

  Which is like a tourist place in Britain. It's a, it's called Holy Island, um, which in like, I think they show you on a map that it's Holy Island, but like, I think they tried and it's not really Lindisfarne. I do think they shot at least some on the island, on the actual place. They shot it all in the north of England, like where it's set, Northumberland. But like, that is this weird fucking tidal island off the coast with a causeway that you can only access it every so often. And famously cars are always getting, because there's a road you can drive down, but then cars will get stuck and they have to go rescue the cars. And it's funny. And like, it is that like, it's hearkening to, I feel like what Garland is clearly interested

• 39:54David Sims?

  in, what you're talking about that like, return to like feudal British, British life. Where it's like, we have a fortress, we're on an island, Britain's like an island nation.

• 40:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:04David Sims?

  And there is that kind of like sturdiness to like old Brit, you know, where it's just like, nobody could fucking come here because like, it's hard to get here, get all your shit here. The last guys who did it, it happened in 1066, it never happened again. Did happen in 1066.

• 40:18Griffin Newman?

  Here's the other thing, and I, we don't need to talk about this for long, but my-

• 40:22David Sims?

  No, so the Vikings came before them, the Vikings would come all the time. And for a while, if you might like this, most of Britain was under Viking control. And it was called the Dane Law, like Brit, that part of Britain. But then the Normans came and drove the Vikings away. The Normans are the last to invade, they're from like the north of France.

• 40:40Speaker 02

  What about the Goths?

• 40:42David Sims?

  The Goths were fucking up the rest of Europe, but they never set their sights on Britain.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 40:45David Sims?

  No, they fucked up Rome.

• 40:46Speaker 03

  They came back around when like, you know.

• 40:49Speaker 02

  Suzy Seaman.

• 40:49David Sims?

  Right. Right.

• 40:52Griffin Newman?

  And then Hot Topic kind of gave them like a safe haven.

• 40:54David Sims?

  Yeah, kind of like corporatized it, made it a little bland, right? It's an old Mulaney joke of like, you think they wake up in the morning, I'm so bummed out, because like, I gotta put all that shit on my face.

• 41:07Griffin Newman?

  What I was gonna say is, this movie, and the way the great movies do, kind of make you start thinking about a ton of other things, right? They just sort of like, launch off different streams of thought. I, something was coalescing while watching this of like, and I'm not gonna harp on this, just let me say this for like, four sentences.

• 41:29David Sims?

  He's gonna harp on it.

• 41:30Griffin Newman?

  There's something in the like-

• 41:31David Sims?

  You gotta harp out.

• 41:32Griffin Newman?

  The messaging of all the weird like, grifter manosphere shit.

• 41:37David Sims?

  Oh my god.

• 41:38Speaker 02

  What?

• 41:38Griffin Newman?

  Let me say this for four sentences.

• 41:40Speaker 02

  Wait, where, how do we?

• 41:41Griffin Newman?

  That is, that is about like-

• 41:45Speaker 02

  Do you have room for me in your egg?

• 41:46David Sims?

  Yeah, come in the egg.

• 41:46Griffin Newman?

  That is about like, we gotta reset, we gotta get back to our programming, right? Like this shit, like fucking paleo diets and like, we need to eat the way the fucking cavemen ate.

• 41:56Speaker 02

  We just explained return with a V to you before we got on.

• 41:59David Sims?

  It's funny that you didn't know that one, yeah.

• 42:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:00Griffin Newman?

  But this is what I'm saying, and like, the obsession with the fall of Rome, right? And this idea that we've like, lost our programming and whatever. This movie is kind of going like, okay, like, is this what you guys want? I don't think, I don't think it's a retort. I don't think it's a retort, but you know what I'm saying? I do think there is this weird obsession and I think we're stuck in this time that is very much about like,

• 42:22David Sims?

  you're beyond four sentences.

• 42:23Griffin Newman?

  Are we, I'm going off into a slight side tangent off of this. Are we like living on the precipice of like the end of existence, which we've been talking about like the fucking Y2K canon having that kind of feeling, right? And there's this other sort of version of it now, which this movie is just like, okay, here's like, if things actually collapse, here's what it's like, like two decades later, we have to fucking like, incorporate like feudal England into our daily routine while also having like pub hooliganism.

• 42:56David Sims?

  Well, indeed. Uh, yes, I don't think, there's no Roman Empire shit here though. I think right, the nostalgia is for right, for medieval Britain, not in some kind of, we need a king way.

• 43:08Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 43:09David Sims?

  But more in that kind of like, yeah, the land and the sea and the.

• 43:12Speaker 02

  Isn't this also like a Brexit thing too?

• 43:15David Sims?

  Oh, for fuck's sake, is it? Oh, God.

• 43:17Speaker 02

  Well, it's like, we know.

• 43:18David Sims?

  What do you mean?

• 43:19Speaker 02

  Well, just the whole.

• 43:20David Sims?

  What do you mean? Like the whole of Europe does kind of want to draw a line or something. And Britain be like, don't go there.

• 43:24Speaker 02

  This sort of return to like British, like British nationalism and like a specific identity and like, but I don't think that that is necessarily.

• 43:33David Sims?

  Not about a national identity.

• 43:35Speaker 02

  I don't think it's, well, I don't think it's explicitly about a national identity and that like, I think there are, there are allusions to nationalism, the fact that the, they still have the portrait of the queen up, which I thought was funny.

• 43:50David Sims?

  Well, but that's one of the many gags Garland's getting at, that you're not clocking until the final gag as a Brit.

• 43:56Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 43:57David Sims?

  Of like, right, time stopped in 2002.

• 44:00Speaker 02

  2002.

• 44:01David Sims?

  Not now.

• 44:02Griffin Newman?

  Right. We're in an alternate timeline.

• 44:04Speaker 02

  Yes. Right. Uh, and I also think.

• 44:07David Sims?

  Now, did the queen get the rage virus?

• 44:09Speaker 02

  She had to have.

• 44:12Speaker 02

  Um, but I also like.

• 44:15David Sims?

  She ate the corgis.

• 44:18Speaker 02

  Oh. Um, I also like the sort of, um,

• 44:24Speaker 02

  the, the long history of like British folk horror.

• 44:28David Sims?

  Yeah, which Garland is obviously so interested by and men is so interested in the green man and stuff.

• 44:34Speaker 02

  And so like you had the, some of the aspects of this new island society do feel like the masks, it does seem very ritual based, which is, which to me feels like it's part of like that lineage.

• 44:46Griffin Newman?

  But also this sense of ritual of like, when you are a teenager, if you feel up to it, they go like, okay, you fucking practice your aim long enough. You can try to go take down some fucking zombies. And they give this very bracing speech where they're like, you get what the rules are, right? If you fall, no one comes back to rescue you. We lost too many people that way. When you walk past this point, you understand that you are ostensibly fending for yourself.

• 45:15David Sims?

  Yeah, it's like you're climbing Everest or whatever, where it's like, look, you'll probably come back, but we're not going to come get you.

• 45:21Griffin Newman?

  But, but it's like, you know, it's a version of like a draft. It's a version of a like, you know, cultures that didn't allow youth to have a youth. Where they're like, at some point we've just decided like, you're a man now and you gotta fucking solve the problem. And we're throwing you at it as a body.

• 45:39David Sims?

  It made me think of walkabout. Yeah, sure. Walkabout, uh, any, any kind of right teenage, uh, sort of ancient ritual of like, now this is how you become a man is like go and live by yourself for a month, or you go into the wilderness or yeah.

• 45:55Griffin Newman?

  It's all of that, but combined with this, like, and by the way, this is life and death stakes. You know, if it, there being this weird sport to it, because as we've said, it's like, the thing is contained. Right? They're doing this, like you, you have to question how much for fun? How much for pride? How much for identity? And how much do they still kind of believe 28 years later? Okay, if we keep chipping away at this, maybe in 50 years they're all gone. I don't know.

• 46:23David Sims?

  Oh no, I don't think so. I mean, I don't think so either. No, no one on the island, no one in this movie, uh, talks about like, uh, way back to Britain. They're like, we live on our island. Yeah. The first movie ends with the notion that the zombies will star. They mention this, like that, that like. If we just kind of wait long enough, we can starve them out and, you know, stop whatever the pandemic is, whatever the virus is. And Boyle has had to, obviously with this, be clear, like, no, they figured out ways to survive. They eat worms and shit.

• 46:56Griffin Newman?

  Sure. But also us trying to kill them means that we're constantly feeding them.

• 47:01David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 47:01Griffin Newman?

  Even if not in the numbers.

• 47:03David Sims?

  Yeah, there's not too many people left. I mean, the implication you get, and we'll see what these future movies have, is that like, the most there is are these little towns, right? Like, that's like-

• 47:15Griffin Newman?

  Hamlets.

• 47:16David Sims?

  The extent of civilization.

• 47:17Griffin Newman?

  That are isolated.

• 47:18David Sims?

  And if someone from Europe shows up, just, well, the rest of Europe is still going.

• 47:23Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 47:23Speaker 03

  They're basically the only place that is still dealing with these conditions.

• 47:29Griffin Newman?

  That's turned back, that reset the clock, basically.

• 47:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:35Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 47:36David Sims?

  Yes?

• 47:37Griffin Newman?

  He lurks in shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula, a new full cast audio thriller starring Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, and an A-list cast, including Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, Amy Lou Wood as Lucy, David Johnson as Dr. Seward, and many more. That is an all-star cast.

• 47:57David Sims?

  Yeah, this new full cast thriller locks Mina Harker in a battle of minds with the Count. When Mina's fiance, Jonathan Harker, Louis Partridge, vanishes in Transylvania, Mina pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula's already hunting her.

• 48:17Griffin Newman?

  Joined by the enigmatic Van Helsing, Mina and a small fearless band race against time to stop this ancient terror. Using her intellect, her resolve, and a gift for drawing the unseen lines between clues, Mina may just hold the key to bring down the Count if he hasn't already found his way inside her mind.

• 48:33David Sims?

  Featuring a haunting original score by Elon Eschery and a spatial dolby Atmos sound design, Audible's Dracula invites you to welcome literature's most shadowy figure into your home. Feel the terror of being hunted and the thrill of the hunt. Don't miss this year's best new audio thriller, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Audible's new full cast original adaptation, written by Robin Ahern, now on Audible. Listen to the darkness. Go to audible.com/listen to Dracula.

• 49:07Griffin Newman?

  David!

• 49:08David Sims?

  Yes?

• 49:09Griffin Newman?

  Shop.com is giving away $1 million in Shop Cash.

• 49:13David Sims?

  Wow. Shop has all the stores you love and lets you track every order in one spot.

• 49:18Griffin Newman?

  I love that. It's very convenient.

• 49:19David Sims?

  And now, 1,000 shoppers are each gonna win $1,000 in Shop Cash, just in time for the holidays.

• 49:27Griffin Newman?

  You get gifts for everyone on your list, or get yourself something a little merry and bright. Find exactly what you're looking for at shop.com.

• 49:35David Sims?

  Uh, got stocking stuffers, maybe. The sickest luxury items. Cookware, to kicks, toys to high-tech, even tinsel and tree toppers. Type in what you're looking for to instantly search every shop at once. Okay? That's shop.com. You can just go, click around, find brands you love, search across all the stores, track every order in one spot.

• 49:59Griffin Newman?

  From cult favorites to the world's biggest brands, score suite deals, and checkout fast, all at shop.com. Enter to win the $1 million Shop Cash giveaway from now until November 1st. Just go to shop.com. There are so many ways to win. That's shop.com. Shopping designed around you. No purchase necessary. Restrictions apply. Official rules available at shop.com.

• 50:30Griffin Newman?

  David!

• 50:30David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 50:31Griffin Newman?

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• 50:39David Sims?

  Lisa!

• 50:40Griffin Newman?

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• 50:47David Sims?

  Yeah, I have a Lisa too. Uh, they've got a lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses tailored to how you sleep.

• 50:53Griffin Newman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:54David Sims?

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• 51:00Griffin Newman?

  Maybe you hear eco-friendly and you go- Oh, but I'm gonna sacrifice comfort.

• 51:04David Sims?

  No.

• 51:04Griffin Newman?

  Nope.

• 51:05David Sims?

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• 51:50Griffin Newman?

  This movie opens with the Sony Pictures logo and the familiar sounds of the Teletubbies theme song. A moment where I just immediately went, fuck, this thing's gonna be dancing in David's brain. Already Boyle is doing the like, what is British culture and what is our relationship to it thing?

• 52:09Speaker 02

  Please give me your interpretation of the Teletubbies.

• 52:12Griffin Newman?

  And then we have this prologue where a bunch of children are told by their parents, like, just sit here and watch this. It is like a really insightful, kind of like, a scene we didn't get in the previous two films. But like, yeah, if you have kids that small where they can't really wrap their heads around what they're doing, you put all the kids in a room, you go like, just watch the TV show.

• 52:31David Sims?

  Don't, doesn't Twenty Eight Weeks have?

• 52:34Speaker 02

  Twenty Eight Weeks has kids.

• 52:35David Sims?

  And then that whole first scene is so disturbing too, right? Because.

• 52:40Griffin Newman?

  It's like when they run to the boat.

• 52:42David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 52:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 52:43David Sims?

  But no, this is very distressing, but indeed, I do think Garland and Boyle maybe, you know, picked Teletubbies for a reason. One, it's period appropriate. But two, Teletubbies is post-apocalyptic. I'm not the only person to have this interpretation of it.

• 53:00Griffin Newman?

  It is like these weird creatures have built some new society on the.

• 53:03David Sims?

  Yeah, or something. They feel like radioactive creatures because they're colorful. They live in a bunker, right? Like their home is a.

• 53:12Speaker 02

  Tummies or TV?

• 53:13David Sims?

  Their tummies are television. So they've got this sort of like cyborg like energy to them.

• 53:17Griffin Newman?

  Their best friend is like a fucking mutated vacuum cleaner.

• 53:20David Sims?

  That's, that's what I love about Teletubbies is that there's no one here, but there's a voice like that comes through the tubes.

• 53:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 53:28David Sims?

  And there's a face in the sky. So there's this sort of sense of like,

• 53:32Griffin Newman?

  Friendly.

• 53:32David Sims?

  Yeah, there's something happened to Earth.

• 53:34Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 53:35David Sims?

  And we all left, but we're sort of monitoring this weird situation now.

• 53:39Griffin Newman?

  Much like this.

• 53:40David Sims?

  Trying to grow new people, maybe.

• 53:42Griffin Newman?

  It's like a beautiful, lush, post-apocalyptic landscape.

• 53:45Speaker 02

  With bright colors.

• 53:46Griffin Newman?

  Right. This is the brightest sun.

• 53:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:48Griffin Newman?

  And the greenest grass.

• 53:49David Sims?

  And then they get these, uh, you know, part of Teletubbies is that they watch videos on their, uh, tummies that are of real kids.

• 53:56Griffin Newman?

  But it feels like transmissions from the past.

• 53:57David Sims?

  Exactly. And that's what's so, and then of course, and they eat, uh, goo and pancakes. You know, they eat this like sort of what feels like, you know, kind of bunker food. Uh, anyway, it's all great. Naughty Nunu, of course, is their, uh, friend, the vacuum cleaner.

• 54:11Griffin Newman?

  I forgot that was his name.

• 54:12David Sims?

  Naughty Nunu.

• 54:13Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 54:14David Sims?

  I remember when Teletubbies debuted in Britain, I was saying this to Marie, you know, Teletubbies is this like,

• 54:18Griffin Newman?

  Ninety-seven or ninety-seven?

• 54:19David Sims?

  Ninety-seven. Designed by child psychologists, uh, where they're like, let's make a show that actually speaks toddler language rather than like English.

• 54:28Speaker 02

  Free K.

• 54:28Griffin Newman?

  It's one of those shows where when it aired, every grown up who didn't have kids was like, what the fuck is this? And the media had a field day making jokes about how bizarre it was. And then you put any kid in front of it or even turn on a TV with a kid four rooms away. And like a magnet, it was just like, this is speaking directly to my brain.

• 54:46David Sims?

  Um, I will say I put it on for my daughter once and she did not respond to it very strongly. And my wife was like, turn this off. It's disturbing me. Which I understood, like, it is a bit odd. I was obsessed with it when I was 11, when it arrived for the, you know, this kind of like, what the fuck is this?

• 55:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. My sister, Ronley was born in 98. I think it maybe doesn't start airing on,

• 55:07David Sims?

  Yeah, probably.

• 55:08Griffin Newman?

  US until 98 or 99, but I would absolutely watch it with her because I was fascinated by how strange it was.

• 55:14David Sims?

  And obviously there were the dumb social controversies that emerged from it, but the first controversy was more the kind of thing of like, should children even be watching TV at this age?

• 55:22Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 55:23David Sims?

  Cause it's sort of what it's advancing is like,

• 55:24Griffin Newman?

  It's this indoctrination.

• 55:25David Sims?

  Yeah, like shouldn't 18 months old be in front of a screen at all, right?

• 55:29Griffin Newman?

  And it's like a fucking show about the screen tummy creatures.

• 55:31David Sims?

  Yes. Uh, and it's also very boring to watch because they repeat everything and you're like, why do they repeat everything? And again, the child psychologists were like, you know, toddlers like repetition. Tag yourself, I said to Marie. Who are you? I know who you are, but tag yourself. Marie, Marie's obviously Lala. That one is not in dispute.

• 55:48Griffin Newman?

  Okay, you said you got stuck on me. I'm curious to hear how.

• 55:51David Sims?

  So I am, I feel like unfortunately or fortunately also, I'm very obviously.

• 55:55Speaker 02

  You're a hundred percent Tinky Wink.

• 55:56David Sims?

  That's not, those two are not tough. But so then we had Dipsey and Poe. We agree that you're Poe.

• 56:02Speaker 02

  And Ben is obviously Dipsey.

• 56:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, so I don't understand what the confusion was here.

• 56:06Speaker 02

  Dipsey.

• 56:07Speaker 03

  What's Dipsey?

• 56:08Griffin Newman?

  Tinky Winky.

• 56:09Speaker 02

  Dipsey.

• 56:11David Sims?

  Dipsey's green.

• 56:12Griffin Newman?

  La la pow.

• 56:14David Sims?

  You know, they all have a thing and Dipsey's thing is that he has a hat that's a cow print, like a sort of top hat.

• 56:19Speaker 02

  Look him up. You are so Dipsey.

• 56:21Griffin Newman?

  Dipsey's into fashion.

• 56:22David Sims?

  Dipsey's fairly extra, like tends to have a lot of. And so I was like, Dipsey's performative.

• 56:27Griffin Newman?

  Dipsey's got like the curly cue.

• 56:29David Sims?

  No, Dipsey's got a straight point.

• 56:31Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 56:31Speaker 02

  So the thing about Dipsey is like, if I'm thinking like.

• 56:33David Sims?

  Lala is curly.

• 56:34Speaker 02

  Which one of these fucking.

• 56:36David Sims?

  Poe has a circle.

• 56:36Speaker 02

  Would be a skateboarder. For me, that is Dipsey. Dipsey would be this, like the skateboarder. Lala is like the little princess.

• 56:45David Sims?

  Poe is the baby.

• 56:46Speaker 02

  Poe is baby. But he also is kind of.

• 56:48David Sims?

  It's a little girl.

• 56:50Speaker 02

  Poe is like the center of everything though. And also we were like Poe can't do things. You can't drive.

• 56:56Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, Poe can't drive, right?

• 56:58Speaker 02

  Poe definitely can't drive.

• 56:59David Sims?

  Well, I think Poe has a scooter.

• 57:02Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, well.

• 57:03Speaker 02

  Well, we all know Griffin did have a scooter.

• 57:05Griffin Newman?

  I was into scooters and the fucking inline skates.

• 57:08David Sims?

  Poe's favorite object is her scooter, which of course she calls Poe Cooter.

• 57:13Griffin Newman?

  That makes sense.

• 57:14Speaker 02

  And Ben, are you looking at Dipsey now?

• 57:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, I like his hat.

• 57:19David Sims?

  I mean, his hat's good. The only thing with Dipsey, I will say, and I will acknowledge this for all listeners, is Dipsey is black, like Dipsey's skin is darker.

• 57:28Speaker 02

  Wait, Dipsey's black?

• 57:29David Sims?

  And Poe is sort of Asian, like they, they.

• 57:32Speaker 02

  Wait, what?

• 57:33David Sims?

  I'm sorry to blow everyone's mind. They made some effort to acknowledge racial diversity when they created the characters, which is funny because they are aliens.

• 57:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I was gonna say.

• 57:42David Sims?

  It's one of those things where you're like, huh? But it's very, when you watch it, you're like, yes, Dipsey has darker skin.

• 57:47Speaker 02

  I thought he was just tan.

• 57:48Griffin Newman?

  Right, they have.

• 57:49David Sims?

  Okay.

• 57:49Griffin Newman?

  They have different tones. I think to say they are black and Asian is too.

• 57:55David Sims?

  You can look this up. Abide by our like society that race, the construct of race.

• 58:02Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 58:02David Sims?

  Has made it to the Telewii world.

• 58:04Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 58:05David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, I just don't, I don't.

• 58:06Speaker 02

  The creators of Telewies have stated the dipsy is black. I had no idea.

• 58:10David Sims?

  Yes, this, it was, you know, again, they're like, we want this to reflect the kids are watching it, you know, for them to see things. Yada, yada, yada. I'm obviously Tinky Winky, who's an absolute unit, who is also a little fabulous, I suppose.

• 58:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:23Griffin Newman?

  Do you remember the Tinky Winky controversy, Ben?

• 58:25Speaker 02

  Little handbag.

• 58:26Speaker 03

  I kind of recall. Please refresh my memory.

• 58:29Griffin Newman?

  Jerry Falwell was like, Tinky Winky is gay. He carries a handbag.

• 58:34David Sims?

  He also, he wears a dress sometimes. He'll wear a dress.

• 58:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. And did they, did they have a problem with the triangle? Did they?

• 58:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:40David Sims?

  Some people thought the triangle was, and the purple coloring was subtle coding.

• 58:44Griffin Newman?

  Well, the purple, yes, but I'm trying to remember what they read.

• 58:46David Sims?

  The triangle, I think, is a sign of.

• 58:48Speaker 02

  The pink, pink triangle has always been a sign of.

• 58:51Griffin Newman?

  They were just basically every part of Tinky Winky is indoctrination.

• 58:56David Sims?

  Lala's, uh, object, of course, is a ball. I just want to point that out. Big ball. You look a big ball. Who doesn't?

• 59:04Griffin Newman?

  This is a clean tag yourself. I gotta say.

• 59:06David Sims?

  I think it's pretty clean.

• 59:07Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 59:07Speaker 02

  I think we were just unsure if you would recognize that.

• 59:09David Sims?

  But also Lala and Tinky, Lala and Tinky Winky were layups that like a child could do. It was just a little bit more.

• 59:15Griffin Newman?

  You know what also layups? Dipsy and puddle.

• 59:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 59:20David Sims?

  Well, the opening scene's quite distressing. Now, I don't know if you guys agree, but I'm pretty sure the blonde child we see in this opening scene is Jack O'Connell.

• 59:29Griffin Newman?

  Yes, because of the cross.

• 59:31David Sims?

  Cross, right. And, uh, so initially, of course, I'm watching the scene being like, okay, I guess this is, is this the origin of one of the characters we're going to spend time with?

• 59:39Speaker 02

  It's Aaron Taylor Johnson.

• 59:40David Sims?

  You kind of clocked like, no.

• 59:42Griffin Newman?

  I assumed it was Aaron Taylor Johnson, but it's, it's basically a standalone coda that does not tie directly back into anything until the final scene, which is the tee up.

• 59:50David Sims?

  But it does have this culty overtone when he goes to see the priest.

• 59:55Speaker 02

  Which is his father.

• 59:57David Sims?

  I wasn't sure about.

• 59:58Speaker 02

  I think it was.

• 59:59Speaker 03

  Says father.

• 1:00:00David Sims?

  But of course, one does address a priest's father.

• 1:00:03Griffin Newman?

  I read it as also being his dad.

• 1:00:04Speaker 02

  I think it's his dad.

• 1:00:05David Sims?

  But then I was second guessing this.

• 1:00:07Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:07David Sims?

  And we mean.

• 1:00:08Speaker 02

  And then the fact that he's.

• 1:00:09David Sims?

  It's a little chaotic.

• 1:00:10Griffin Newman?

  Movie doesn't give you clear.

• 1:00:10Speaker 02

  The fact that the guy is like really excited about being, you know, mauled to death by rage zombies.

• 1:00:16Griffin Newman?

  Because he's basically like, this is God's will.

• 1:00:17Speaker 02

  This is judgment.

• 1:00:18Griffin Newman?

  It's because.

• 1:00:20Speaker 02

  That's fucking crazy, man.

• 1:00:22Speaker 03

  And then he immediately turns and you're like, what a waste. What a stupid thing you just did.

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  No, they all, but that's the thing about the rage virus. It gets you within seconds, which is why it doesn't spread beyond England.

• 1:00:34Griffin Newman?

  You turn fast, but also then you get to run fast.

• 1:00:38Speaker 03

  And you get to hang dong.

• 1:00:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:40David Sims?

  Wow. If you're hoof, you're very lucky.

• 1:00:42Griffin Newman?

  We get out of this movie, we turn our phones back on and our thumbs are catching on fire texting the doughboys going, 28 years later is maybe the hog movie of the decade.

• 1:00:55Griffin Newman?

  And I can't believe we've gone this long without calling it out. This is.

• 1:00:59David Sims?

  They're swinging some sledgehammer.

• 1:01:01Griffin Newman?

  You know, fucking wide release studio picture.

• 1:01:05David Sims?

  True. Weird British studio picture, but you're not wrong.

• 1:01:08Griffin Newman?

  There are some absolute units flapping around.

• 1:01:11Speaker 02

  At one point I went to David, I was like forearm.

• 1:01:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:14Speaker 02

  Forearm. And then I did this. I did this little forearm.

• 1:01:16Speaker 03

  Big boy. Yeah.

• 1:01:17Griffin Newman?

  And I also, I said, as always, I said, by the way, sneaky sack movie.

• 1:01:21David Sims?

  Yeah, no, sure. You're right. You, you spend so much time thinking about the dicks. Let's not forget the sack.

• 1:01:26Griffin Newman?

  And there's even a couple of shots where Boyle's doing some weird camera angles and you're just like, you're really going to just let the sack get that close to the lens?

• 1:01:33Speaker 02

  Do you guys know about scrotal talks?

• 1:01:37David Sims?

  So is that getting botox in your balls?

• 1:01:38Griffin Newman?

  Much like the world building of 28 years later. I don't know about it, but I can start to fill in the gaps with the information I've been given.

• 1:01:44Speaker 02

  Apparently someone on this, this Bravo show, The Valley.

• 1:01:48David Sims?

  Why would you want to smooth out wrinkles? You don't want unwrinkled balls. That's gonna look weird.

• 1:01:53Griffin Newman?

  Worse.

• 1:01:54Speaker 02

  So I thought scrotal talk, so someone on this reality show got this procedure, which is botox for your balls. And I thought it was to remove the wrinkles.

• 1:02:01Griffin Newman?

  For the balls or for the sack?

• 1:02:03Speaker 02

  I guess, I don't know.

• 1:02:03David Sims?

  It's for the sack. It's for the scrotum.

• 1:02:05Speaker 02

  For the scrotum, the scrotum. But it's not just about the wrinkles. It's about keeping them hanging low.

• 1:02:12David Sims?

  Why would you want to, what? Okay, whatever.

• 1:02:14Griffin Newman?

  That's a temperature.

• 1:02:15Speaker 03

  Low.

• 1:02:16Griffin Newman?

  That's, that's gravity.

• 1:02:18David Sims?

  It's gravity, but it's also your, your body heat. You know, if you're like, you know, if you're warmer, they go further away.

• 1:02:25Speaker 02

  You get, women get botox in their underarms so they don't sweat. I think this just paralyzes the scrotum. So it doesn't suck up as much. Because I think people find that like, apparently it's an aesthetic thing.

• 1:02:38Griffin Newman?

  Okay, I'm taking out the gavel and my ruling is all of this sucks.

• 1:02:44Speaker 02

  You're not pro scrotax?

• 1:02:45Griffin Newman?

  I'm not mad at you for bringing it to our attention, but I'm mad at it for being a thing.

• 1:02:50David Sims?

  Three or four months, so you gotta keep going back.

• 1:02:53Griffin Newman?

  Oh, fun. Great. So three times a year I get someone injecting my balls? Sounds worth it.

• 1:03:04David Sims?

  It's an outpatient procedure, according to Health Line here.

• 1:03:08Griffin Newman?

  And I bet when you walk out, that's a clean walk with zero irritation. I'm glad they don't keep you overnight because.

• 1:03:15David Sims?

  Takes anywhere from two to four minutes.

• 1:03:16Griffin Newman?

  Sprinting out of there.

• 1:03:18Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:03:19David Sims?

  They do recommend that you call a variety of licensed, reputable providers before you get your scrotax done to compare costs. You don't want to just take the first price you're given, right?

• 1:03:30Griffin Newman?

  Does Wirecutter have scrotax recommendations?

• 1:03:34Griffin Newman?

  Cause it's not just like go for the cheapest, it just like depends on what you want out of it.

• 1:03:38David Sims?

  Did you see Men?

• 1:03:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:40David Sims?

  Do you like it?

• 1:03:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, you know what? I, I didn't see.

• 1:03:42David Sims?

  Remember when he made a movie called Men?

• 1:03:44Griffin Newman?

  I do.

• 1:03:44David Sims?

  Everyone was so normal about that.

• 1:03:46Griffin Newman?

  I liked it. Okay. I mean, I, I'm like, the thing with Garland is even when he doesn't totally hit for me, I find the ideas so provocative. And I do think he's become a very good visual stylist and I'm like, that movie feels a little bit, um. It has a little bit of Twilight Zone Syndrome to me, but also he's throwing enough in there that it doesn't feel like it's just stalling one idea. Twilight Zone Syndrome is-

• 1:04:14Speaker 02

  This is something that can fill 30 minutes of TV, but yeah, okay.

• 1:04:18Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah. And I think most bad Twilight Zone Syndrome movies just stall for time and get you stuck in a middle, right? And then he's just like, well, here's my core animating idea, and that's basically a short story.

• 1:04:33David Sims?

  Why are we saying this T. Jones?

• 1:04:35Griffin Newman?

  Two and a half men. The movie's not called Half Men.

• 1:04:37David Sims?

  No, it's a, it's a-

• 1:04:38Griffin Newman?

  It's called Men.

• 1:04:39David Sims?

  It's a sequel. It's, it's at one and a half entries before the sitcom.

• 1:04:43Griffin Newman?

  And you might remember that Ashton Kutcher, John Cryer, and Charlie Sheen all had prominent roles in the movie. Man, Angus T. Jones was on the sidelines. Um, I like that movie. All right.

• 1:04:55David Sims?

  I'm just thinking about it. I mean, I was-

• 1:04:56Griffin Newman?

  Some of it I really loved.

• 1:04:58David Sims?

  I was thinking about the folklore thing that you said, um, because that movie has the Green Man, which is similar, right? Like, kind of like, let's, let's think about Britain even before the Normans came here, right? Like, think about like, kind of Celtic Britain. And it has the shield and the gig.

• 1:05:12Speaker 02

  I'm so into that.

• 1:05:14David Sims?

  Yeah, I know. And he's into it too. And I'm into it. And I'm going to start a Manosphere podcast where I'm like, specifically Kel- Stonehenge shit. We need that. That's the route to masculinity or whatever.

• 1:05:26Speaker 02

  This is the thing-

• 1:05:26David Sims?

  Which again, this movie doesn't have too much of that, but the Bone Temple stuff, the third act stuff, has a strand of that in its DNA, although I also think it has this strand of like, essentially, Ralph Fiennes doing like, public art, right? Like, the Angel of the North, which is a big-

• 1:05:44Griffin Newman?

  Just to be clear, I don't think this movie is commenting on the Manosphere. Watching this movie made me think about the Manosphere in a different way, where I'm like, is there this core underlying thing that there is this feeling that existence has become overwhelming and unmanageable?

• 1:05:58Speaker 02

  So you're saying you relate to this now? You're, you're sort of, you're, you're seeing it from their perspective?

• 1:06:03Griffin Newman?

  I'm reacting very differently, but there are pockets where I think the core idea is this, like, do we gotta get back to something primal, right? And I think that's out of a panic. And I think this movie is sort of like, contending with those same instincts. Not in the same way, but also, guys who see it at the end of the movie have a little bit of Manosphere energy? Who fucking knows? I don't know.

• 1:06:24David Sims?

  Now-

• 1:06:26Griffin Newman?

  We'll get to them. We'll get to them. We'll get to them.

• 1:06:28David Sims?

  Now, now Ashton Kutcher has won Screen Actors Guild Award nomination.

• 1:06:33Griffin Newman?

  He's got one nomination?

• 1:06:35David Sims?

  Yeah, now it's for an ensemble, you know, but even that's sort of surprising.

• 1:06:39Griffin Newman?

  For a movie ensemble?

• 1:06:42David Sims?

  Yeah, it's crazy that they handed this one out. You'll never ever get it.

• 1:06:46Speaker 02

  Wait, no, we're gonna get it.

• 1:06:48David Sims?

  No, you're not.

• 1:06:48Speaker 02

  We're gonna get it.

• 1:06:49David Sims?

  Five Razzie nominations.

• 1:06:51Griffin Newman?

  That makes sense.

• 1:06:52David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:06:52Griffin Newman?

  He doesn't have that many movie roles. So I'm like, it's not Dude, Where's My Car? It's not fucking The Guardian. It's not, uh, it's not New Year's Eve.

• 1:07:05Speaker 03

  I don't think it would be Butterfly Effect.

• 1:07:07Griffin Newman?

  It's not Butterfly Effect.

• 1:07:08David Sims?

  You don't think it was Butterfly?

• 1:07:10Griffin Newman?

  Uh, it's not Steve Jobs.

• 1:07:12David Sims?

  Well, he's not in that.

• 1:07:13Speaker 02

  Is it Cheaper by the Dozen?

• 1:07:14Griffin Newman?

  He is, or he's in Jobs.

• 1:07:16David Sims?

  He's in Jobs.

• 1:07:16Griffin Newman?

  It's not Cheaper by the Dozen.

• 1:07:18David Sims?

  No.

• 1:07:19Speaker 02

  Is it one of the Valentine's Day, New Year's Eve?

• 1:07:21David Sims?

  No, Screen Actors Guild Award nomination for outstanding performance by a cast in a motion picture.

• 1:07:27Griffin Newman?

  David, is it just, he, his role must be small, right?

• 1:07:30David Sims?

  It's an ensemble film. I'll tell you that much. I've never seen it, but I believe everyone's role in it is.

• 1:07:34Griffin Newman?

  Oh, oh, oh, I know what it is because it is one of the most absurd SAG ensemble nominations. Where you're just like, they truly just went most ensemble cast.

• 1:07:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, isn't it Valentine's Day or New Year's Eve or something?

• 1:07:46Griffin Newman?

  It is Emilio Estevez's Bobby, is it not?

• 1:07:49Speaker 02

  Wait, what?

• 1:07:49David Sims?

  Correct.

• 1:07:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:51Speaker 02

  Oh my God, I forgot about Bobby.

• 1:07:53Griffin Newman?

  A movie that has four trillion actors in it.

• 1:07:56Speaker 02

  Got Lindsay Lohan in it.

• 1:07:57Griffin Newman?

  It does. But that's why I was like, I don't know for a fact that Ashton Kutcher's in it, but he must be in it.

• 1:08:03David Sims?

  Uh, correct. Um, I don't know what his role is.

• 1:08:06Griffin Newman?

  I don't either.

• 1:08:06Speaker 02

  Fisher.

• 1:08:07Griffin Newman?

  Great.

• 1:08:08Speaker 02

  That's a scary. Nick Cannon and Harry Belafonzi.

• 1:08:11Griffin Newman?

  Everyone's in that movie.

• 1:08:12David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:13Speaker 02

  Ruhmholz is in the movie, Scoot McNary.

• 1:08:16Griffin Newman?

  Of course.

• 1:08:17David Sims?

  He's been nominated for worst actor three times by the Razzies, for Jobs, uh, in 2011, a combo of Killers and Valentine's Day. And in 2004, a triple combo of.

• 1:08:27Griffin Newman?

  Butterfly?

• 1:08:28David Sims?

  Nope. Cheaper by the Dozen, Just Married and My Boss's Daughter.

• 1:08:31Griffin Newman?

  Wow, that was sort of the launch.

• 1:08:32David Sims?

  Like a kind of a, we're sick of you. And then he also got a worst screen couple nod for Just Married and My Boss's Daughter, shared with Brittany Murphy and Tara Reid. That also seems rude to me. And he got a worst screen couple nod for What Happens in Vegas. Like, I'm like, none of those movies are that good. But like, I mean, like, did they hurt anyone's feelings? Like, all those dumb Kutcher rom-coms? Like, they were fine.

• 1:08:56Griffin Newman?

  We talk about it a lot. The Razzies are super chauvinistic. They hate women's movies, and they hate male stars in women's genres, right? Like, they they'll slam, like, dumb Meathead Stallone shit. But the amount of, like, across the board, major nomination films that are romance films, whether drama or comedy, and especially erotic thrillers, they hate.

• 1:09:22David Sims?

  Yes. Yeah. They don't like boobs. Or they like to yell at people for having them or something.

• 1:09:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:27David Sims?

  Um, so 28 years.

• 1:09:28Griffin Newman?

  This movie jumps ahead after the prologue, the little table setting of the quarantine, the one title card.

• 1:09:33Speaker 02

  I got so excited they used the same font.

• 1:09:35Griffin Newman?

  28 years later.

• 1:09:36David Sims?

  Good for them. And also, right, the exact same iconography, though, the Fade to Black,

• 1:09:40Griffin Newman?

  the. The movie's building to, like, right, a point of mania, and then it just goes quiet, and the title card comes up. And the main structure we're introduced to is this this small house in a small village on an island, where Aaron Taylor Johnson and Jodie Comer are parents to a young boy. He's 12. What's the the Spike?

• 1:10:01Speaker 02

  Spike is his name.

• 1:10:02Griffin Newman?

  This guy.

• 1:10:02David Sims?

  Played by Alfie.

• 1:10:04Speaker 02

  Williams or something. Alfie something.

• 1:10:07David Sims?

  Alfie Williams.

• 1:10:08Griffin Newman?

  He has very few credits before this. I've certainly not seen anything.

• 1:10:10Speaker 02

  No, I think.

• 1:10:11David Sims?

  There's no credit.

• 1:10:12Speaker 02

  I think this is his debut.

• 1:10:13Griffin Newman?

  Um, Boyle.

• 1:10:14David Sims?

  From, yeah, Newcastle.

• 1:10:15Griffin Newman?

  Sneaky good with child actors.

• 1:10:17Speaker 02

  So good with kids.

• 1:10:18David Sims?

  I said to Marie, I was like, millions, baby.

• 1:10:20Griffin Newman?

  Millions and fucking Slumdog.

• 1:10:22David Sims?

  Yeah, dog, baby.

• 1:10:23Griffin Newman?

  Like, how much of Slumdog becoming a phenomenon was just that people couldn't believe how good the kid performances were for the first.

• 1:10:28David Sims?

  No, the kids are so cute.

• 1:10:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. And, right, you're sort of slowly filling in the information of this kid is being prepped for some rite of passage, which turns out to be, as we said, this sort of, like, going past the gate, entering the mainland.

• 1:10:45Griffin Newman?

  Uh, what, what do you, what's the fucking, the term for putting the fucking, put the quiver? Yeah, sure. Whatever. Fuck you.

• 1:10:54David Sims?

  What did I do?

• 1:10:55Griffin Newman?

  I don't know. I just, I'm angry that I didn't have the language at my fingertips.

• 1:10:58Speaker 02

  Are you an archer, David?

• 1:10:59David Sims?

  No, I, I always found it very hard and like, I actually appreciated when they have him draw before he goes out. And they're like, yeah, you're not wobbling because that's the thing. When you're a kid, you're like, yeah, it's easy, right? It's a big string. You just go like this and then you pull it. You're like, huh, huh. This is kind of like, she's in my hands.

• 1:11:15Griffin Newman?

  Make it look like it's a rubber band and you just go boing.

• 1:11:18Speaker 02

  I've never shot an arrow.

• 1:11:19Griffin Newman?

  It sucks.

• 1:11:20Speaker 02

  Have you shot an arrow, Ben?

• 1:11:21Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:11:22David Sims?

  It hurts your hands.

• 1:11:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I think it sucks and is for losers.

• 1:11:24David Sims?

  Did something happen to you at summer camp? This is screaming.

• 1:11:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, my parents made me go to fucking sports camp with my brother and I had to do all this shit and I hated it.

• 1:11:32Speaker 02

  But I feel like archery is the one where like a kid like you would have a good chance.

• 1:11:36Griffin Newman?

  No, I was bad at it. I have no fucking arm strength.

• 1:11:38Speaker 03

  I have thrown a bunch of axes.

• 1:11:41Griffin Newman?

  Well, of course.

• 1:11:42David Sims?

  And I, and that became such a bougie, you know, Brooklyn bar thing.

• 1:11:47Speaker 03

  And I weirdly was so good at it.

• 1:11:49Griffin Newman?

  Fucking bachelor party.

• 1:11:49Speaker 02

  What do you mean weirdly? I feel like you would be really good at throwing axes.

• 1:11:53Speaker 03

  I mean, yeah, I don't know. I took to it immediately.

• 1:11:56Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, that's not surprising at all. Um, Aaron Taylor Johnson is this kid's, uh, young dad. Who, uh, this feels like Aaron Taylor Johnson trying to bridge the gap between. He has in the past, when I've talked about him, he is one of the actors I am most allergic to. And it was always when Aaron Taylor Johnson is playing charming, I shut down. I'm like, fuck off. The last four or five years, it feels like he's really started to lean into being a little bit of a shitbag. And being a little greasy and he's starting to win me over. And this is sort of putting a like, he is fundamentally a good dad into a guy who just seems a little too slick. A little brash, right?

• 1:12:38David Sims?

  I, slick, no one's really slick because it's pretty dirty moving. But like, I know what you mean in terms of like his charm or his kind of like, yeah, I'll be all right. You know, like, you know, that kind of.

• 1:12:49Speaker 02

  He's playing a lad. He's a lad. Yeah.

• 1:12:51David Sims?

  He's a bit of a Jack the lad.

• 1:12:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:53David Sims?

  He's.

• 1:12:54Griffin Newman?

  I liked him.

• 1:12:55David Sims?

  I agree. Yeah, I think he's good in the movie. I generally just, I turned around on him with Outlaw King. Which was the first time, yeah, nobody ever did.

• 1:13:04Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:13:04David Sims?

  The first time he played what he's doing now. So like big beardy guy.

• 1:13:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:08David Sims?

  Who's like, and then it was like Tenet.

• 1:13:11Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:13:12David Sims?

  Bullet Train, which.

• 1:13:14Griffin Newman?

  He's, but he's really good in both of the Leech movies, but whatever complaints you have with them.

• 1:13:17David Sims?

  That movie kind of irritates me, but he's having fun. Fall Guy.

• 1:13:22Griffin Newman?

  I feel like there was another one.

• 1:13:23David Sims?

  The other one's Nosferatu.

• 1:13:25Griffin Newman?

  Well, yeah, I also just, right.

• 1:13:27David Sims?

  Which.

• 1:13:28Speaker 02

  Him and Nosferatu, he's just every, I don't even know how to describe that performance.

• 1:13:31David Sims?

  Oddly cast in that movie. I didn't hate the performance.

• 1:13:35Speaker 02

  I mean, I, I, I thought it was really funny.

• 1:13:39David Sims?

  It's such a weird part of that movie is that part.

• 1:13:41Griffin Newman?

  I mean, I'm thrilled at the notion that Craven the Hunter, which by the way, I don't think he's terrible. And you still have not seen that movie, right?

• 1:13:49David Sims?

  Which one?

• 1:13:50Griffin Newman?

  Craven the Hunter.

• 1:13:50David Sims?

  No, I keep me, it's on HBO or something, right?

• 1:13:52Griffin Newman?

  When you finally watch it, I'm gonna get 40 texts from you. It is the kind of bad movie that you're gonna get hyper fixated on a bunch of elements being like, but fuck, Crow's really good.

• 1:14:02David Sims?

  Well, I, that's why I want to watch it. Have you seen, by the way, that Crow's playing, uh, is it, what is it? Himmler? No, it's not Himmler. It's some Nazi, right?

• 1:14:10Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:14:11David Sims?

  If they're, they're making a Nuremberg movie.

• 1:14:13Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:14:14David Sims?

  Which like, it's like we've done that.

• 1:14:16Speaker 02

  We've done that a lot.

• 1:14:17David Sims?

  Yeah, exactly. But, uh, I believe for this fall, we're getting a new Nuremberg movie. Oh, he's playing, right? Goring. And that's what I just, where they're like, Russell, we want you to play one of the Nazis on trial. And he was like, hmm, was there a husky Nazi? Which Nazi liked to, you know, pound the steins?

• 1:14:35Griffin Newman?

  I just think that if blessing a disguise for everyone, including ADJ, that Craven the Hunter seems to have killed his Bond hype. And I'm like, that's the worst thing we could do with him at this point in time. He needs to keep the beard. He needs to constantly play characters who are like two pints in. The hair needs to be greasy as hell.

• 1:14:56Speaker 02

  I agree with you that he shouldn't be Bond, but I don't think that him being Bond is out of the question because they, whatever, whatever watchmaker like Omega or whatever just signed him to a thing, which is they're like, this is the way that they.

• 1:15:10David Sims?

  People are freaking out about the Omega thing.

• 1:15:12Griffin Newman?

  I didn't clock the Omega thing.

• 1:15:14David Sims?

  I have, I mean, everyone assumes that now that Bond is fully in the hands of MGM, Amazon, that an announcement's coming soon. Because they they picked two like huge producers, obviously.

• 1:15:26Griffin Newman?

  Cast Alan Hayman.

• 1:15:26David Sims?

  Right. They're they're very much trying to be like presti- like, we are putting our best people on this, you know? It will surprise me if they pick him. I think he's just, just a horrible choice.

• 1:15:39Griffin Newman?

  A horrible choice.

• 1:15:40David Sims?

  Like, I really like.

• 1:15:41Griffin Newman?

  Bad for Bond, bad for him.

• 1:15:43David Sims?

  That's the thing. If I'm his agent, I'm like, you better be really sure you want to do this because it will completely derail everything you've been doing.

• 1:15:49Griffin Newman?

  And it absolutely felt like he's.

• 1:15:50David Sims?

  And maybe you do. Maybe you want to be James Bond.

• 1:15:52Griffin Newman?

  Like, eight years actively running for it, but it feels like in the effort for him trying to get that part, he ended up identifying what he actually should be doing, which is the polar opposite of Bond.

• 1:16:02David Sims?

  Unless James Bond's about to, yeah, be like.

• 1:16:04Griffin Newman?

  Be a mad lad.

• 1:16:05David Sims?

  Pounding pints rather than drinking martinis.

• 1:16:07Griffin Newman?

  So that's this character, right? The mother is Jodie Comer, who is stuck with some sort of mystery illness, is upstairs in bed. She's almost like a fucking Mrs. Haversham.

• 1:16:19David Sims?

  Right. She's hot, like, temperature-wise, she's somewhat delusional.

• 1:16:24Griffin Newman?

  She's having hallucinations.

• 1:16:26David Sims?

  She's having hallucinations or dementia.

• 1:16:27Griffin Newman?

  She's got headaches.

• 1:16:28David Sims?

  Mood swings. Right. She's sort of slipping in time or whatever.

• 1:16:30Griffin Newman?

  She seems, yes.

• 1:16:32David Sims?

  No one else in the movie is really talking about it, although it does seem like people are aware because there's the older guy who comes and helps.

• 1:16:39Speaker 02

  And that's his grandfather.

• 1:16:40Griffin Newman?

  That's her dad, I assume, right? Yeah, yeah, who she talks about later in the film. But but it is like, it's another good idea of like, hey, you know what would be the situation 20 years, 28 years later? We like have gotten rid of fucking medicine. We've gotten rid of doctors.

• 1:16:58David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:16:58Griffin Newman?

  And healthcare, you know? And like her dad, the grandfather, this elderly man at some later point, refers to a character as a GP. And the kid goes, what is that?

• 1:17:08Speaker 02

  Okay, but I'm stupid. I also was like, what? I thought it was a military thing and then they explained it.

• 1:17:13David Sims?

  That's what, in Britain, that's what you call your, what do you call it, primary care physicians?

• 1:17:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:16David Sims?

  They call it here. And in Britain, you just call your GP.

• 1:17:18Griffin Newman?

  I feel like I always say GP.

• 1:17:19David Sims?

  I used to work at a GP's office. I was the receptionist.

• 1:17:23Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, I'm sure you did a great job.

• 1:17:24David Sims?

  I think I did fine.

• 1:17:26Griffin Newman?

  Did you have an accent at that point or did people go like, who the fuck are you?

• 1:17:29David Sims?

  I mean, I always.

• 1:17:30Griffin Newman?

  You're like, hello, doctor's office here.

• 1:17:33David Sims?

  That I did talk like the movie phone, man. It was weird.

• 1:17:36Griffin Newman?

  Well, that's how you had to talk on the phone at that point in time. People don't know that.

• 1:17:39David Sims?

  I was like 17 years old, so I had my silly accent that I had, which was.

• 1:17:44Speaker 02

  What accent did you have?

• 1:17:45Griffin Newman?

  You had your fucking.

• 1:17:46David Sims?

  Called it a transatlantic.

• 1:17:47Griffin Newman?

  You're Mark Ronson.

• 1:17:48David Sims?

  If you want to watch like home videos of me at the time.

• 1:17:50Speaker 02

  I do.

• 1:17:52David Sims?

  Find them sometime, but like.

• 1:17:54Griffin Newman?

  You.

• 1:17:55David Sims?

  Certainly, British people thought I had an American accent and I did. I had largely.

• 1:18:00Griffin Newman?

  But American people said, why the fuck are you talking like that?

• 1:18:02Speaker 02

  Did you sound like Madonna?

• 1:18:03David Sims?

  That's what I always say. I sounded like Madonna. Like I just sounded like an English, an American person who just. For one, I spoke in so many British idioms, but for two, there is a weird tinge to my voice.

• 1:18:14Griffin Newman?

  The mother is just kind of like fucked. And as you said, no one really talks about it because like the nature of this reality is, well, there's like no way to cure her. We're not going to like euthanize her. So she's just upstairs, right? And it basically feels like they're just sort of like, well, she'll just run her course. There's nothing we can do. We have no answers.

• 1:18:40David Sims?

  And I immediately fell for, I think, a trick that the movie's playing of like, I start to wonder like, does she have the rage virus?

• 1:18:48Griffin Newman?

  This clearly must be connected in some way.

• 1:18:50David Sims?

  Way, right?

• 1:18:52Griffin Newman?

  I didn't think she had the rage virus, but I thought, I'll tell you what my actual fear was. Are they setting up some magic blood thing?

• 1:19:00David Sims?

  I had the same thought.

• 1:19:01Griffin Newman?

  That she is some weird evolution that they will figure out actually within her physical condition contains.

• 1:19:08Speaker 02

  That's what they kind of do in 28 weeks later.

• 1:19:09David Sims?

  They do. Cause in 28 weeks, there's the concept of people who are immune or whatever.

• 1:19:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:19:13David Sims?

  Which again, I feel like Boyle and Garland are like, we don't want to deal with.

• 1:19:17Griffin Newman?

  Right. But I was like, well, I could see them doing something where they're like, the immunity comes at a great cost. Right?

• 1:19:23David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:23Griffin Newman?

  The immunity is a sickness that takes away from you.

• 1:19:26David Sims?

  Now, to spoil this movie.

• 1:19:28Griffin Newman?

  It's not doing that at all.

• 1:19:29David Sims?

  I know. Right. To spoil this movie. I think it is the crux of what Garland is doing with the movie and Boyle is doing with the movie, which is basically like, people still die in normal ways too. Like even though the world has ended, she's sick and it's sad and it's a thing the kid has to go through.

• 1:19:45Speaker 02

  But it's Yeah, remember you will die.

• 1:19:47David Sims?

  Memento Mori.

• 1:19:48Griffin Newman?

  It is the inciting incident.

• 1:19:49David Sims?

  But it is not some plot magic and it is not some, you know, like

• 1:19:54Speaker 02

  Do you know what I was thinking the whole time that happened?

• 1:19:55David Sims?

  Big twist or whatever.

• 1:19:56Speaker 02

  When it was revealed that she had cancer.

• 1:19:57David Sims?

  Which Marie said to me early on and

• 1:19:59Speaker 02

  I was like, she's got cancer.

• 1:20:00David Sims?

  She was like, I'm gonna say I have cancer.

• 1:20:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, when we talked about Mission Impossible, we were talking about Luther and how we didn't like that he just didn't die from being ill, that he had to die in some like savior-esque way that was like connected to the plot versus connected to themes.

• 1:20:18Griffin Newman?

  Which by the way, I've heard that the reason he's sick is because in order to build the fucking poison pill, they have to build that room around him, which is essentially a giant Faraday cage. So him programming the thing that can stop the entity is the thing making him sick.

• 1:20:33David Sims?

  Which is a cool idea.

• 1:20:34Speaker 02

  Why don't they talk about that in the movie?

• 1:20:35Griffin Newman?

  They cut that out of the movie. Yeah.

• 1:20:38Speaker 02

  Ah, okay.

• 1:20:40Griffin Newman?

  Sorry, Marie, finish your point.

• 1:20:42Speaker 02

  No, no, my point was just like, oh, this, this movie is doing what we wanted the other movie to do.

• 1:20:47Griffin Newman?

  Because it's just, it's, it's telling the whole story through these characters, you know, and is like telling you what they know and not telling you what they don't know and like investing you in the same mysteries that like drive their lives. The, the real inciting incident of this movie is he goes out for this ritualistic first time on the mainland with his dad, uh, which clearly kind of shakes him.

• 1:21:12David Sims?

  And I also love that it's pretty quick.

• 1:21:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:15David Sims?

  You know, we're, we're on the causeway and then getting out of there within 15 minutes of like, all right, baby.

• 1:21:19Speaker 02

  I thought that was going to be the movie.

• 1:21:21David Sims?

  Me too. Right. They, they get stuck, shit happens.

• 1:21:25Griffin Newman?

  And I, and I am thinking like, then what does Jodie Comer have to do in this film? Right? I also was sort of like, are they gonna fucking Bryan Cranston, Aaron Taylor Johnson? Is the movie gonna be?

• 1:21:35David Sims?

  I had that thought too.

• 1:21:35Griffin Newman?

  Because they set up the so much you can't go back and save people. I'm like, the misdirect is you think the kid's in danger. His dad's gonna die and the movie's gonna be, how does he make it back?

• 1:21:44David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:21:44Griffin Newman?

  That's what I was assuming. Um, instead, what happens is they go on a run. He kills some zombies. He's overwhelmed by some of it, a lot of it.

• 1:21:53David Sims?

  Right. He kills the easy zombie, struggles with the scary one.

• 1:21:56Speaker 02

  Zombies are new.

• 1:21:57David Sims?

  The idea is that it's been so long that some zombies have gotten fat because they eat so much, uh, worm.

• 1:22:03Griffin Newman?

  And they like walk on all fours. They're like deers. We also see.

• 1:22:07David Sims?

  They're like, they're like worms themselves. They're kind of just like writhing on the ground, right? Like moving really slowly.

• 1:22:12Speaker 02

  They kind of look like the whale.

• 1:22:14David Sims?

  Look, it's not, it's not untrue that they kind of look like the whale.

• 1:22:18Griffin Newman?

  But they're also.

• 1:22:18Speaker 03

  Slimy like sloth.

• 1:22:19Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:22:20David Sims?

  And at no point does the whale in the movie, the whale go on the ground.

• 1:22:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, David just did a perfect impression, but, um.

• 1:22:28David Sims?

  Just imagine a horizontal.

• 1:22:29Griffin Newman?

  And David, remind me, how does Killer Croc swim in the movie Suicide Squad?

• 1:22:33David Sims?

  I don't remember. You have to tell.

• 1:22:34Griffin Newman?

  It was the movement you just did.

• 1:22:36David Sims?

  The faster.

• 1:22:39Speaker 02

  So you got the, you got the.

• 1:22:40David Sims?

  If you asked a hundred people on the street, like, remember Killer Croc was in Suicide Squad? They would be like, you don't know. What are you talking about?

• 1:22:47Griffin Newman?

  Movie won an Oscar for the Killer Croc makeup. You could argue.

• 1:22:49David Sims?

  It was pretty good makeup.

• 1:22:50Griffin Newman?

  It was incredible makeup, but people were like, they gave it a fucking Oscar for the Joker tattoos? Because everyone forgets that Killer Croc is in it.

• 1:22:58David Sims?

  He doesn't do anything. That's why they don't remember.

• 1:23:00Griffin Newman?

  Excuse me, David, he does this. And by the way, for the listener, we're all doing perfect impressions of the way Killer Cock swims. Get David, get David.

• 1:23:09David Sims?

  I'm ordering myself some lunch, by the way.

• 1:23:11Griffin Newman?

  Jesus Christ.

• 1:23:12David Sims?

  Cause I'm realizing I'm doing another podcast after this, so I have to.

• 1:23:14Speaker 02

  Can you do the Killer Croc thing with your phone in your hand, like 28 years later style?

• 1:23:18Griffin Newman?

  Oh yeah. Can we get like a human rig on that?

• 1:23:25Griffin Newman?

  They make it back to mainland, but they have like a pretty scary close call with what we were introduced to as an alpha.

• 1:23:31David Sims?

  Right. So, right. We're, we're learning things. We're learning that the wilderness has come.

• 1:23:35Speaker 02

  We've got really skinny, fast ones. We've got alphas, which are the ones with the big dicks.

• 1:23:41David Sims?

  The roided up ones that you can't take them down with a single arrow.

• 1:23:44Griffin Newman?

  These guys got some real hose on them.

• 1:23:45Speaker 02

  Um, we also, uh, they, something is introduced where we see Griff, um, a man is being like hung from like the ceiling.

• 1:23:58Griffin Newman?

  Letters are carved into his chest.

• 1:24:00Speaker 02

  Say Jimmy.

• 1:24:00David Sims?

  Yeah. So though you don't see the J, I think they, they kind of do a good job.

• 1:24:04Griffin Newman?

  They do.

• 1:24:04David Sims?

  Teasing out what that is.

• 1:24:06Griffin Newman?

  And then his head is in a bag that is, has pulled up.

• 1:24:10David Sims?

  An anti bitey bag.

• 1:24:11Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:24:11David Sims?

  To interpret.

• 1:24:12Griffin Newman?

  They think, why was this human tortured and left for dead? And then they realized that it has turned.

• 1:24:20David Sims?

  But I mean, I really liked throughout all of this, the Aaron Taylor Johnson is not that careful. Because I think partly he's like, well, he's going to have to figure it out. And also partly it's just his character. Cause like in that scene, you know, there's a way for you to be watching that scene where you're like, oh, this sucks. Like they're taking too long so that we get a jump scare, right?

• 1:24:41Griffin Newman?

  But yeah.

• 1:24:42David Sims?

  But you're like, no, that's not your behavior. He'd be like, yeah, don't get too close to it. Or I'm like, I would be a million miles away from this.

• 1:24:47Griffin Newman?

  But that's where I'm saying they're bringing in a little bit of the ATJ.

• 1:24:51Speaker 02

  The kid is constantly walking behind him. And I'm like, this is terrible parenting.

• 1:24:55David Sims?

  You would want to keep an eye on him.

• 1:24:57Speaker 03

  It feels like the parent forcing the kid to go on a hunting trip.

• 1:25:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:02Speaker 03

  That he's far too young.

• 1:25:03Speaker 02

  A hundred percent.

• 1:25:04David Sims?

  A little too young. It's like, it's like, he's two years too young.

• 1:25:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:25:07David Sims?

  He can't go on the roller coaster yet, but the dad's like, I'll sneak him on the roller coaster.

• 1:25:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. And the kid is, he's not that kind of kid. He's really sensitive.

• 1:25:15Griffin Newman?

  He is. I mean, look, unsurprisingly, a character detail I love is when he's packing to go on the trip. He looks at the action figure on the mantelpiece. He's like walking out the door. He goes back, he grabs it and then he puts it down.

• 1:25:27Speaker 03

  You related to that?

• 1:25:28Griffin Newman?

  I did. Every morning, if you wonder why I'm late for podcast recordings, it's because I'm looking at the action figure on the mantle. I go, do I bring it?

• 1:25:35Speaker 02

  Which one did you bring today?

• 1:25:36David Sims?

  Good.

• 1:25:36Griffin Newman?

  Well, I have my, my McCready from, uh, the thing here, courtesy of.

• 1:25:41David Sims?

  Right. I mean, we all agree, like the kid is a really good kid performance. And like, and if you told me going in like, hey, yeah, the movie is the main character is a kid.

• 1:25:49Griffin Newman?

  He is the movie.

• 1:25:50David Sims?

  I would have been like, look, Boyle is good at that. I'm not automatically freaked out, but I don't love, I never. Ever love to hear that a 12 year old is gonna be the big thing in a genre.

• 1:25:58Griffin Newman?

  No, but I 28 years, it is the two generations later thing. It is that like this kid is like two degrees removed from a world before this, which is smart. You're like, that should be the center of the film. It does make sense, but it is obviously a risky proposition unless you find the right kid, which they fucking did and Bull directs him to perfection. They narrowly make it back. The other side of the gate and then you're sort of like, what is the movie now? But while they're there.

• 1:26:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, a couple more, a couple more things. So they, they clock that there is a, a fire in the distance. It looks like signs of human life.

• 1:26:34David Sims?

  And Ariel Jones is like, oh, it must be a fire. And you say, is it village? Like, no, it's not a village. It's like, what is this? Like, oh, I don't know. And I don't want to talk about it. Don't ask.

• 1:26:40Griffin Newman?

  Covering a little too fast. It's coming out of a pillar, let's say.

• 1:26:43Speaker 02

  So there, there's that. There's also, uh, the first time I think we see, uh, infrared footage.

• 1:26:51David Sims?

  So that shit rocks. And I also want to.

• 1:26:53Speaker 02

  Scary and cool.

• 1:26:54David Sims?

  And also when they're marching over the causeway to begin their journey is when, right? He cuts in the, the recitation of the Kipling poem, which was this like 1915 radio broadcast, right? Is what that is. And he's cutting in like all this footage of like Britain going to war, medieval, World War One, right? You know, like, and I was just.

• 1:27:14Griffin Newman?

  We're seeing like 40s movies depictions of knights.

• 1:27:19Speaker 02

  It reminded me a lot of the, um, the opening ceremony where he cuts to like, the Olympic opening ceremony, he cuts to, um, the each territory or whatever, scoring a rugby goal or a soccer goal. That like this use of like, again, like tone poems, montage, using archival footage. I was like, oh, this is fucking cool.

• 1:27:43Griffin Newman?

  But this is where.

• 1:27:44David Sims?

  Rocket.

• 1:27:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Well, yes, but because I was remembering our Olympics episode where you're just sort of like slamming your fist on the table and going like, this is so British. He gets it, right? And he's just saying like, this is the DNA. Right? He's not like making a statement on the nation in the same way as he's talking about the lineage of the people in a way. We, we, we reveal this on social media, but we recorded an episode recently with Mark Maron, A Decade of Dreams Come True, that will come out in later months.

• 1:28:14David Sims?

  We locked the-

• 1:28:15Griffin Newman?

  We locked the motherfucking gates, but I, I told Maron, because of course he does not know the backstory, that David grew up in England, and I believe Maron's immediate response was, "It must be nice to grow up in a place with old stuff."

• 1:28:30David Sims?

  That guy-

• 1:28:30Griffin Newman?

  And he was like, like he got walls there that are like older than 300 years.

• 1:28:34David Sims?

  We talked about castles for a minute, that's true.

• 1:28:36Griffin Newman?

  But that's like a thing this movie is getting at, is like, this is a place that has history, and these, like, it repeats itself and it echoes and it rhymes.

• 1:28:43David Sims?

  It's what, to me, is charming about America, but a lot of Europeans will make fun of, right, where America's like, "Look at this old house, it's from the 19th century." And everyone in Europe is like, "All of us just live in houses from then."

• 1:28:55Griffin Newman?

  I mean, this-

• 1:28:56David Sims?

  Like, what?

• 1:28:57Griffin Newman?

  This is why Margaret is one of the best movies ever made about America, because it's the one movie that identifies, like, we are fucking teenagers who think we're grown up.

• 1:29:04David Sims?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 1:29:06Griffin Newman?

  That's what that movie's about for me. Someday we will cover it. Anyway, um, they make it back, and you're sort of like, what is the movie now? Where is this going? Right? Which I love. I love that feeling of, I truly don't know.

• 1:29:20David Sims?

  I mean, I know zombies will be involved, I guess.

• 1:29:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:23David Sims?

  But there's anywhere this could go, right? Like, this, it could go in any direction.

• 1:29:28Speaker 02

  Um, I also just want to shout out the sequence where they are running across the causeway back to Holy Island, where it's like, the Northern Lights.

• 1:29:38David Sims?

  How is, yes. How is he fucking shooting?

• 1:29:40Speaker 02

  I have no idea.

• 1:29:41David Sims?

  I mean, I know there's like CGI.

• 1:29:42Speaker 02

  It looks, it looks, it's so insane, and it's, and it's so striking. I, it took my breath away, and you also just have a, just giant penis.

• 1:29:54David Sims?

  That's true.

• 1:29:54Griffin Newman?

  Just flapping in the moonlight. Fucking piece on him.

• 1:29:58David Sims?

  Well, it's a prosthetic, I believe. I mean, it was very rubbery. No, I don't, I don't know, but, uh, the, the physics and the sort of, the sheen, uh, to use like-

• 1:30:09Griffin Newman?

  I feel like we had a similar reaction to Yahya Abdul Mateen's giant blue hanger in Watchmen. Where you and I are texting back and forth and I'm like, is he just fucking stacked the high heavens? And you were like, it's gotta be fake. But because the actors are already wearing makeup over their body.

• 1:30:28David Sims?

  Right. It's sort of.

• 1:30:29Griffin Newman?

  It's hard to know where the reality is.

• 1:30:31Speaker 02

  Do they give Billy Crudup a big dick in the Watchmen movie?

• 1:30:34David Sims?

  Uh, I would say it was, it was a perfectly nice, classic blue penis.

• 1:30:39Griffin Newman?

  But fucking HBO Watchmen, he's got an absolute Pringles can on him.

• 1:30:44David Sims?

  I'm just leaving you to this.

• 1:30:47Griffin Newman?

  Anyway, they narrowly escape the dick. They make it back.

• 1:30:50Speaker 02

  There's a party.

• 1:30:51Griffin Newman?

  And in, well, this is the thing, in the same time where he's like doing this sort of tone poem, like cutting in historical footage, cutting in movies, reenacting different eras of Britain, uh, the footage of them out on the hunt, right? He's also giving you these images that are clearly new stuff from the movie, but you don't know what they are. And you're seeing people wearing masks. You feel like, is this some weird cult thing? Is this some tribal thing? Where's this going? And then finally you cut into that space proper and you're like, this has been a preview of what's on the other side for him after his first hunt, which is basically you're a man now. You get to fucking engage with pub culture, right?

• 1:31:32Griffin Newman?

  And it's like some weird version of like a bar mitzvah combined with like, now you get to like, like chug pints and like be yelled at by people. That this is how they've maintained their like football hooliganism is by rebuilding it around the idea of hunting zombies.

• 1:31:48Speaker 02

  It's just, it breaks my heart that, you know, that Aaron Taylor Johnson's like, my son, he, you know, killed so many, he was incredible.

• 1:31:59Griffin Newman?

  Proud of him. He's crying as he's.

• 1:32:00Speaker 02

  He's so vile, you know, he like smashed those guys. He ripped them to shreds. He's so brave. And the kid is like very traumatized.

• 1:32:08David Sims?

  He's not into it. He thinks he did a bad job. He doesn't like that he was scared. But he also is correctly like, that was very fucked up. I didn't enjoy any of that.

• 1:32:17Griffin Newman?

  Basically like maybe nailed two and there were eight where his dad had to step in. And he's fixated on the ones that he couldn't.

• 1:32:24David Sims?

  I'm with, or I'm sympathetic to Aaron Taylor Johnson because it's like, yeah, we live on a tiny island, like a little village town of how, what do you think? It's like a hundred people or something, you know, like whatever. Uh, that's. The where I'm alive, you know, like it's the only thing that we get to do.

• 1:32:41Griffin Newman?

  Gets a rush.

• 1:32:41David Sims?

  Right?

• 1:32:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:42David Sims?

  They don't even have the Wordle.

• 1:32:45Griffin Newman?

  They don't even have the Wordle.

• 1:32:48David Sims?

  They don't even have old ones.

• 1:32:49Griffin Newman?

  Nary a Cinematrix to be seen.

• 1:32:51David Sims?

  Wordle didn't exist in 2002.

• 1:32:52Griffin Newman?

  Created in this universe.

• 1:32:53David Sims?

  It's so frightening to me to think about a world without Wordle.

• 1:32:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:57David Sims?

  I'm joking.

• 1:32:58Griffin Newman?

  Do you think they still have duty.com, though?

• 1:33:01David Sims?

  Please tell me what that is.

• 1:33:02Griffin Newman?

  D O D D Y and every day there was a new flash animation about poop.

• 1:33:06David Sims?

  Is it still going?

• 1:33:08Griffin Newman?

  Um.

• 1:33:09David Sims?

  I'm gonna guess that that one might have died on the vine.

• 1:33:12Griffin Newman?

  I did in the last five years go like, I should check up on duty.com and I can't remember if I had to use Internet Archive to find it, but they're definitely not posting new content. What I was gonna say is I like that you're getting this like preview imagery of the fucking pub party afterwards. That is more terrifying to this kid to be in the center of than being on the mainland with the zombies, right? He is so overwhelmed. They're making him drink beer. He's vomiting immediately.

• 1:33:39Speaker 02

  I don't think it's more terrifying. I think they're equating.

• 1:33:42Griffin Newman?

  They're similar, but it's so overstimulating.

• 1:33:45Speaker 02

  Yes, it is. And the, the major thing that happens at this party. And he witnesses his father go down on the local hua in an alleyway.

• 1:33:58David Sims?

  She's a nice lady.

• 1:33:59Griffin Newman?

  Nice lady.

• 1:34:00David Sims?

  She's not the local hua.

• 1:34:01Speaker 02

  I mean, she could be.

• 1:34:03David Sims?

  Fucking Pantoliano has entered the chat.

• 1:34:07Speaker 02

  Thank you. That was exactly what I was going.

• 1:34:09Griffin Newman?

  But the thing that absolutely like destroys his idea of his father, I think.

• 1:34:14David Sims?

  It definitely.

• 1:34:14Griffin Newman?

  Combined with him feeling.

• 1:34:16David Sims?

  The dad a little bit.

• 1:34:17Griffin Newman?

  So freaked out by what he just experienced and being like.

• 1:34:19David Sims?

  I'm sympathetic to ATJ. Jodie Comer is, is not really with him anymore. Like.

• 1:34:25Speaker 02

  No, she and.

• 1:34:26David Sims?

  Yeah, she doesn't really exist.

• 1:34:28Speaker 02

  Also, the kid doesn't have all of the context.

• 1:34:32David Sims?

  Well, I also think the kid, to bring back the manosphere thing, is he's more of a DJ Khaled type where he's like, kings don't do that.

• 1:34:39Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 1:34:41David Sims?

  Like, I think that's what he's thinking.

• 1:34:42Griffin Newman?

  And even though he's still finding-

• 1:34:43David Sims?

  There's a cut scene where he actually says that.

• 1:34:45Griffin Newman?

  He's still finding a sense of self, but he knows, without a doubt, he self identifies as a king. And kings don't do that.

• 1:34:51Speaker 02

  But, okay, so-

• 1:34:53Griffin Newman?

  You did say, by the way, walking out, you went, "What a year for Cunnilingus." You did say pussy thing. In mainstream studio horror film. And I said, "In mainstream studio Jack O'Connell horror."

• 1:35:06David Sims?

  Yeah, that's right. J O C and sits in his rider.

• 1:35:09Griffin Newman?

  Do you think that's his-

• 1:35:09David Sims?

  If I'm in a movie, someone has to eat a pussy.

• 1:35:12Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say, I don't have to do it. In either case, he's doing it, but do you think that's his first script note when he gets sent something?

• 1:35:17David Sims?

  It's why, it's why he never made the MCU. Being like, "Someone's gonna get eaten out." And they're like, "What?"

• 1:35:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, they offered him every eternal.

• 1:35:26David Sims?

  Kingo, come on. Fuck, I wish I could name another eternal.

• 1:35:30Griffin Newman?

  Kingo, Gilgamesh.

• 1:35:32David Sims?

  Oh, there you go.

• 1:35:33Griffin Newman?

  Druik.

• 1:35:34David Sims?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:35:34Griffin Newman?

  Icarus. Can I name them all? Sprite?

• 1:35:38David Sims?

  Sure.

• 1:35:39Griffin Newman?

  Fastos?

• 1:35:40David Sims?

  Yep, that's Brian Tyree Henry.

• 1:35:42Griffin Newman?

  I'm getting hung up on Gemma Chan.

• 1:35:44David Sims?

  Yep. She's the only one I know, because I actually, she's a well-known comic character. Well, weller-known.

• 1:35:50Griffin Newman?

  Well, she's not Cersei, right? Angela Jolie, okay.

• 1:35:52David Sims?

  No, Gemma Chan is Cersei.

• 1:35:53Griffin Newman?

  Angela Jolie is-

• 1:35:55Speaker 02

  Lara Croft, Tomb Raider.

• 1:35:56Griffin Newman?

  Oh, one of them is Ajax.

• 1:35:58David Sims?

  Uh, yeah, that's, Salma Hayek is Ajax.

• 1:36:01Griffin Newman?

  I'm two away. Remember how there were ten Eternals?

• 1:36:04David Sims?

  There were a fair amount. They may be over-

• 1:36:06Griffin Newman?

  I'm counting, I think it's ten. Angela Jolie's character is Athena?

• 1:36:11David Sims?

  Is just Athena, but I think it's supposed to be-

• 1:36:13Griffin Newman?

  Because the idea is that all of them are names that were misinterpreted as.

• 1:36:16David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:36:16Griffin Newman?

  Okay, and then the only one I don't have is the fast one, Macari.

• 1:36:20David Sims?

  Lauren Riddler's character, Macari. You, you did have-

• 1:36:23Griffin Newman?

  My brain sucks so much.

• 1:36:26David Sims?

  No, you just love Eternals.

• 1:36:27Griffin Newman?

  I do love Eternals and I watch it every night.

• 1:36:30Speaker 02

  I'm a little, like, embarrassed for you.

• 1:36:31Griffin Newman?

  I'm embarrassed for me.

• 1:36:33David Sims?

  Icarus is the one that really amuses me.

• 1:36:35Speaker 02

  Who was, who was, uh, who was the Irish guy?

• 1:36:38David Sims?

  Uh, he was Druig.

• 1:36:39Griffin Newman?

  Druig. Druig's a bad boy, but he's actually a lover.

• 1:36:43David Sims?

  Yeah, right. He probably is the one, the most likely.

• 1:36:46Griffin Newman?

  Let's, let's-

• 1:36:46David Sims?

  Yeah, let's, let's be honest.

• 1:36:47Griffin Newman?

  He might be taking a knee, you know what I'm saying? I do like that. I do like that she's standing in air and Taylor Johnson takes a kneel like a gentleman.

• 1:36:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. Okay. Wait.

• 1:36:56Griffin Newman?

  He bows before his queen.

• 1:36:57Speaker 02

  I just have like a little follow up thing because I just listened to the like everyone else who listens listening to this podcast. I just listened to the loser episode. You guys briefly bring up Saving Silverman. I haven't seen it.

• 1:37:08Griffin Newman?

  I have gotten five texts in the week since the episode came out.

• 1:37:12David Sims?

  Did I say it was bad?

• 1:37:13Griffin Newman?

  Saying Saving Silverman is good and you are right.

• 1:37:17David Sims?

  So you're, you're, it's good. And I was like, isn't it bad?

• 1:37:20Griffin Newman?

  I said.

• 1:37:21David Sims?

  I can't remember the.

• 1:37:21Griffin Newman?

  Saving Silverman is good. And I believe you said, oh, fuck off. It is not.

• 1:37:27Speaker 02

  I.

• 1:37:27Griffin Newman?

  You refused to even enter.

• 1:37:29David Sims?

  I mean, I remember that being like a one star Empire Magazine review, but that's not, it's been a little while since I saw Silverman.

• 1:37:37Speaker 02

  I put it on last night.

• 1:37:38David Sims?

  Or saved it.

• 1:37:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I, I will admit, I've been watching it in chunks every night when I'm trying to fall asleep. I have not made it to the end yet. Even though it is only 90 minutes.

• 1:37:45David Sims?

  Watching it at Instagram.

• 1:37:47Speaker 02

  There is like a god tier bit in the beginning where Jack Black is like trying to prove that he's good at training employees of Subway on how to make sandwiches, which is so fucking simple, but.

• 1:37:59Griffin Newman?

  The guy puts the meat on the outside of the bread.

• 1:38:01David Sims?

  That movie's a year after High Fidelity. I do remember at the time where I was just like, I'm interested in Jack Black, like, like Jack Black's being peppered into anything. I want to know what it is.

• 1:38:10Griffin Newman?

  My take on that movie is that that movie is chaos. Like what's funny about it is like,

• 1:38:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:38:15Griffin Newman?

  It is like one of the most deeply misogynistic studio films ever made.

• 1:38:17David Sims?

  That's what I remember. Right. Bad vibes.

• 1:38:19Speaker 02

  So I just want to go on the record as saying like Amanda Peet, I get where she's coming from. I think it's amazing that the only sexual activity she will have with her boy toy is.

• 1:38:32Griffin Newman?

  David, take a guess.

• 1:38:33Speaker 02

  He just goes down on her. That's the entirety of.

• 1:38:36Griffin Newman?

  She doesn't ask. She tells Jason Biggs to take a knee.

• 1:38:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:38:39Griffin Newman?

  And then when he says, you know, there are things that one can do in return, she hands him porno mags.

• 1:38:44Speaker 02

  Out of her bedside table, porno mags, lotion and a box.

• 1:38:49Speaker 02

  It says have fun.

• 1:38:51David Sims?

  You're not making it sound good. You're making it sound. I, I, oh.

• 1:38:55Griffin Newman?

  Maria, agree with me, it's got some juice.

• 1:38:58Speaker 02

  It's got some juice. I was laughing.

• 1:39:00David Sims?

  You know, like weird garbage juice?

• 1:39:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's weird garbage juice. Yeah.

• 1:39:05Griffin Newman?

  But garbage juice, you're like, doesn't have started with a base of real juice.

• 1:39:09Speaker 02

  Also.

• 1:39:10Griffin Newman?

  I know other things have gotten mixed in.

• 1:39:11Speaker 02

  All of the, all of the Neil Diamond stuff is funny to me.

• 1:39:14Griffin Newman?

  Neil Diamond's really good.

• 1:39:15Speaker 02

  And then.

• 1:39:16Griffin Newman?

  Really good.

• 1:39:17Speaker 02

  I basically stopped watching it because my husband was like, actually, can we pause?

• 1:39:20Griffin Newman?

  So neither of us have made it to the.

• 1:39:21Speaker 02

  No, we haven't. No, they just kidnapped her.

• 1:39:24Griffin Newman?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:39:25Speaker 02

  Where I stopped. But like, we stopped watching the movie because.

• 1:39:28David Sims?

  Have you seen this piece of shit? No. Okay.

• 1:39:30Speaker 02

  My husband was like.

• 1:39:31Griffin Newman?

  That's actually damning that Ben hasn't.

• 1:39:32David Sims?

  Yeah, right. Even Comedy Central was like, ew.

• 1:39:36Speaker 02

  But no, we had, we had to watch the Neil Diamond storytellers from SNL.

• 1:39:40Griffin Newman?

  That's one of the greatest.

• 1:39:44David Sims?

  That is, I haven't seen that in a long time.

• 1:39:48Griffin Newman?

  So good.

• 1:39:50David Sims?

  It is. I like that we're bringing up deeper SNL cuts of like, cause I got some Rocket Dog log. And then.

• 1:39:55Griffin Newman?

  Houston, we have a dog.

• 1:39:56David Sims?

  The Seth Meyers Lonely Island podcast talked about it.

• 1:39:59Griffin Newman?

  I know right after.

• 1:40:00David Sims?

  Because they were discussing that.

• 1:40:01Griffin Newman?

  Synchronicity. I, I've been, I've been jamming on some sort of like forgotten side feral sketches. But I remember in a pre YouTube era where I would go to SNL transcripts dot JT. And the Neil Diamond storyteller sketch was one that I would read and laugh out loud. Cause I was like, well, there's no way to re-watch this.

• 1:40:20Speaker 02

  It's on Daily Motion.

• 1:40:22Griffin Newman?

  Now, now, but I'm saying like 2004, you were like, I just have to read it.

• 1:40:27David Sims?

  What is dot JT?

• 1:40:28Griffin Newman?

  I don't know, but it was what that fucking website had.

• 1:40:30Speaker 02

  I just, I just love like the SNL sketches, sketches that are like not on YouTube, the ones that like.

• 1:40:37Griffin Newman?

  The most ones that have music. Yeah.

• 1:40:39David Sims?

  Right. Yeah. Yeah. Cause Rocket Dog, it's life is a highway is the problem, I think.

• 1:40:42Griffin Newman?

  Right. I think.

• 1:40:43David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:40:43Griffin Newman?

  I found it again on Daily Motion or somewhere, but yeah.

• 1:40:46David Sims?

  I think there's just some conversation that happens of like, do we clear life as a highway? And they're like, what? That's like a 1255 sketch. No.

• 1:40:54Griffin Newman?

  There's a Paul Rudd Vilcoman sketch that aired once and has never been legally reposted.

• 1:40:58Speaker 02

  I guess that makes sense. But in my, in my head, it's like, okay, the ones that are like deemed too spicy for YouTube. Like, we want to scrub them from the internet.

• 1:41:07Griffin Newman?

  That's part of it, but I do think the music is more of it. I mean, they talk about on the fucking Lonely Island podcast that when they started doing the digital shorts and they would sample songs. They were like, yeah, because you make a license that this just airs one time on late night and it costs fucking $5. And the second they started putting up on YouTube, they got sued.

• 1:41:26David Sims?

  Yeah. I mean, my guess is it's also sometimes someone like Tom Cochrane, who of course is the guy who's saying life is a highway. Might be like, yeah, life is a highway is my whole like income stream. I, I'm asking for the maximum quote, right? Like some guys might just be like, yeah, whatever. Fuck, you can have it.

• 1:41:43Griffin Newman?

  Also, you have to remember Rocket Dog is post cars. So Cars has been like funneling money into his pockets. And he's like, you don't get this for free anymore. I know my value. Life is a highway.

• 1:41:55David Sims?

  You're gonna have to clue this man.

• 1:41:59David Sims?

  That was Rascal Flatts, right?

• 1:42:01Speaker 02

  You're going my way. And then I don't know the next lyric.

• 1:42:06Griffin Newman?

  It might honestly be, I want to ride it. In my mind, it's, I want to ride it again.

• 1:42:15Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:42:16David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:16Griffin Newman?

  This episode is brought to you by XYZ Films and the acclaimed new documentary Capturing Bigfoot. On October 20th, 1967, Roger Patterson captured 59 seconds of film showing a creature walking through the Northern California woods. I wonder if you can log that on Letterboxd.

• 1:42:33David Sims?

  It is an iconic video.

• 1:42:34Griffin Newman?

  Footage that became the most analyzed and debated in history. 59 years later, a reel of 16 millimeter film discovered in a safe changes everything. Capturing Bigfoot reveals the untold story behind the world's greatest mystery told for the first time by Patterson's own son and the people who were there. This is a story about family legacy, broken friendships, and how far people will go to protect a secret.

• 1:42:57David Sims?

  Of course, you got the classic, what they call Patterson Gimlin film everyone knows of Bigfoot out in the woods, like the famous Bigfoot picture. This has other stuff shot by him that no one's ever seen. That's what makes this movie different.

• 1:43:09Griffin Newman?

  But we're also talking brand new 4K scans of the original film taken from the Patterson family archives that some historians have called the best rendering of the footage ever seen.

• 1:43:18David Sims?

  I feel like we've all seen that footage as like grainy.

• 1:43:20Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:43:21David Sims?

  You know, that you see, you know, whatever, you see it in a documentary for two seconds, but this is restoring it and making it look much more clear.

• 1:43:28Griffin Newman?

  There's also a companion podcast, the Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, which goes deeper into the legend and lore of Bigfoot and the Patterson Gimlin film, featuring weekly episodes with experts in cryptozoology, urban legends, and filmmaking.

• 1:43:42David Sims?

  I'm something of an expert in cryptozoology.

• 1:43:44Griffin Newman?

  Well, of course, yes, but that's more of a hobby.

• 1:43:46David Sims?

  Yeah, this podcast, Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, is hosted by the director of the film, Mark Evans, and it's available for free on YouTube and Spotify with exclusive episodes and content available on Patreon to members of the Capturing Bigfoot Society.

• 1:44:02Griffin Newman?

  Capturing Bigfoot is now available to rent or own on Amazon Prime Video. Learn more about Capturing Bigfoot at capturingbigfoot.com.

• 1:44:17Speaker 02

  Okay, so 28 years later.

• 1:44:19Griffin Newman?

  He is, his, his sort of belief in his father is immediately broken, right? In this storm of complicated emotions.

• 1:44:25David Sims?

  And again, here's something I appreciate. We get moving pretty quickly. Again, I kept, no offense to the town, which is an interesting environment, but every time we were in the town, I kind of had this fear of like, are we about to do 20 minutes of sort of town politics?

• 1:44:38Griffin Newman?

  He runs home, he has this long conversation with who we assume is the grandfather.

• 1:44:42David Sims?

  Which is a lovely scene.

• 1:44:43Griffin Newman?

  He asks him about the pillar in the fire that he saw, and he's like, oh, your dad didn't want to tell you. And says, that guy used to be a GP. And the movie now starts tilting at the character that is basically the Colonel Kurtz of this movie.

• 1:44:58David Sims?

  Or at least you'll think though, he'll be Kurtz.

• 1:45:00Griffin Newman?

  They're framing him that way.

• 1:45:01David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:01Griffin Newman?

  And there are certainly parallels.

• 1:45:02David Sims?

  Right, because ATJ, what the fuck's the character's name? I keep calling him Jamie. Says like, right, we had one, I had one disturbing encounter with that person a long time ago, where I just saw him lining up bodies, and then he like waved.

• 1:45:16Griffin Newman?

  And he was so cheery about it, like nothing was wrong.

• 1:45:18David Sims?

  And I was like, that's a psychopath.

• 1:45:20Griffin Newman?

  Right. You see it. You see it from a distance. His face is covered. You don't, you don't see the guy, but we know there's a third name above the title on the poster.

• 1:45:28David Sims?

  I know who's coming.

• 1:45:29Griffin Newman?

  And I think Ben doesn't know.

• 1:45:31David Sims?

  No.

• 1:45:31Griffin Newman?

  You had a real kind of like positive jump scare when the actor shows up on screen, but I'm like, oh, fuck, they're saving Rafe Heinz.

• 1:45:39Speaker 02

  David goes.

• 1:45:40Griffin Newman?

  Is one of the first things you said walking out of the theater.

• 1:45:42Speaker 02

  Third act Rafe.

• 1:45:43Griffin Newman?

  Oof, third act Rafe.

• 1:45:45David Sims?

  Third act Rafe is huge in Bruges. Hurt Locker.

• 1:45:49Speaker 02

  Harry Potter, Goblet of Fire.

• 1:45:51David Sims?

  Is there another one?

• 1:45:52Griffin Newman?

  Uh, I was saying that the reader is kind of a third act, Rafe, although, uh, most people don't make it to the third act.

• 1:45:58David Sims?

  Or remember that movie if they saw it yesterday.

• 1:46:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, there has to be another one, though.

• 1:46:02David Sims?

  I don't know.

• 1:46:03Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's a, it's a classy move. It's a gentleman's move and it's a genius move.

• 1:46:07Speaker 03

  Especially because he's smeared.

• 1:46:09Griffin Newman?

  Yes, he's, he's really.

• 1:46:11David Sims?

  He is covered in iodine, but I mean, okay, so.

• 1:46:13Griffin Newman?

  We don't know that at first. We think it's like blood or something.

• 1:46:15David Sims?

  Right, right. I think, I, I guess I was, I, I sort of, because they were setting him up so malevolently, I, I did sort of think like, okay, I don't think he's gonna be as like the psycho that he's being portrayed as by Aaron Taylor Johnson, because that feels too easy, right? So then I was, I was trying to puzzle out, like, is it gonna be, he was doing something with the bodies to, you know, ward off the zombies or whatever.

• 1:46:42Griffin Newman?

  But we're sitting there and we're both, we're all like, they wouldn't do something that easy, but what's it gonna be? And when Rafe appears on screen, the first six line readings, I would say the first 10 minutes he's on screen, the audience laughed at everything he did because it is so, he is somehow doing something that is so unexpected and yet you still can't pin it down. You're like, this is not who I thought this guy would be, and yet I still can't figure this guy out. And it doesn't feel like he's just doing weird line readings.

• 1:47:12Speaker 02

  No, he's, it's like, it's, it's a gentleness that's really surprising.

• 1:47:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like macabre sentimental.

• 1:47:19Griffin Newman?

  I was like, he's doing another actor. Who is he doing? And it took me a moment and then I was like, he's doing Bill Nighy.

• 1:47:28David Sims?

  Uh, sure, okay.

• 1:47:29Griffin Newman?

  Not like ripping him off, but it felt like he's capturing that odd energy to Bill Nighy, where you're like, is this guy like emotionally disconnected or more connected? He's kind of just on his own wavelength.

• 1:47:41David Sims?

  He's another take on, he's gone not crazy, but he doesn't interact with people anymore.

• 1:47:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:47David Sims?

  And like, he's not malevolent.

• 1:47:51David Sims?

  But he is odd. He's still polite.

• 1:47:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, well, that's the naive part of it is he sort of like makes jokes to entertain himself.

• 1:48:00David Sims?

  What Bill Nye performance are you thinking?

• 1:48:02Griffin Newman?

  I think that's Bill Nye's like default kind of like demeanor.

• 1:48:06David Sims?

  I don't agree with you. I'm sorry. I love Bill Nye. I just think he usually plays really more than guy.

• 1:48:11Speaker 03

  Are we talking about the science guy?

• 1:48:12David Sims?

  We're not talking about the science.

• 1:48:13Griffin Newman?

  I was talking about the science guy.

• 1:48:15David Sims?

  And I love Bill Nye. He, I have no problem with Bill Nye. I don't know him very well.

• 1:48:20Griffin Newman?

  No problem. I think give him some credit. Put some flowers on that name.

• 1:48:23David Sims?

  Do I have to?

• 1:48:24Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I think so.

• 1:48:25Speaker 02

  I think it's a little, I think it's a little desperate that he's like trying to appeal to the TikTok generation.

• 1:48:30Griffin Newman?

  Well, I haven't been clocking that.

• 1:48:31Speaker 02

  Bill Nye. Anyway.

• 1:48:32Griffin Newman?

  I feel this movie.

• 1:48:34Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:48:34Griffin Newman?

  Is that he has this information. Hell, yeah, brother.

• 1:48:40David Sims?

  Maybe Bill Nye's taking a knee.

• 1:48:42Griffin Newman?

  I think so. And for that, we salute.

• 1:48:45David Sims?

  This podcast should, maybe this is it.

• 1:48:48Griffin Newman?

  The last episode.

• 1:48:48David Sims?

  Yeah, maybe we gotta wrap it up. Well, we recorded with all those celebs for the.

• 1:48:53Griffin Newman?

  I know. And we'll just never release them.

• 1:48:54David Sims?

  Fuck it.

• 1:48:55Griffin Newman?

  You got like five A listers. We're just gonna keep them like fucking day the clown cried.

• 1:49:00David Sims?

  Be like, we just be like when people ask us, why? And I'm like, I don't know. We start talking about Bill Nye eating pussy. Felt like it was done.

• 1:49:07Griffin Newman?

  Maybe.

• 1:49:10Griffin Newman?

  We've run our course. Um, he's, his grandfather explains that this guy was a GP. Uh, and he goes, I, you know, I think all of this experience like brings him closer to his mother and this feeling of a need to protect her. And a feeling that his father is not, that his father seemingly has kind of moved on. And he doesn't want his mother to be seen as like a finished cause. And so he convinces his mother to go onto the mainland with him. There's a couple really good scenes. I mean.

• 1:49:43David Sims?

  She's kind of, I feel like she's almost in a fugue at this point, or like she's in the past.

• 1:49:47Griffin Newman?

  She doesn't understand what is happening until.

• 1:49:50David Sims?

  Like minute to minute.

• 1:49:51Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:49:51David Sims?

  Like he gets her, I feel like out of there because she's just kind of like, yeah, sure. Where are we going?

• 1:49:55Griffin Newman?

  She regains a cogency.

• 1:49:57David Sims?

  She'll be like, we outside?

• 1:49:58Griffin Newman?

  On the other side.

• 1:49:59David Sims?

  Right. And he's like, yeah.

• 1:50:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, right. But he does this whole kind of trick to convince the people at the watchtower that there's a fire that they put out to get them off the guard. He has this really good scene where he kind of like holds Aaron Taylor Johnson at knife point because he's so angry at his father.

• 1:50:14David Sims?

  Um, do you guys like Comer in this movie? What do you guys think of Jodie Comer?

• 1:50:19Griffin Newman?

  Here's the thing, I think she is a phenomenal actress.

• 1:50:21David Sims?

  Yeah, in your favorite movie for you, Kai, but apart from that.

• 1:50:24Griffin Newman?

  I feel like you sometimes feel like she goes a little ham sandwich. And I think she is someone who knows how to make a great ham sandwich. I think they're handing her a pretty extreme part. And like some friends of mine who saw that I logged this on Letterboxd were like, how's Comer? I know you're holding Comer stock the way I am. And I'm like, it's not her best performance, but it's like, it's a really tricky part. And I do think she does it well. I think she especially nails the last couple of scenes.

• 1:50:55Speaker 02

  She's phenomenal at the end.

• 1:50:57David Sims?

  She's fantastic in this.

• 1:50:58Griffin Newman?

  But I feel like, Marie.

• 1:50:59Speaker 02

  I was getting a little, I was getting.

• 1:51:01Griffin Newman?

  You and I loved Bike Riders and you walked out of the theater and were like, fuck that. Fuck the voice she's doing. Fuck the whole thing.

• 1:51:08David Sims?

  That's certainly how I felt.

• 1:51:09Griffin Newman?

  This is high school play.

• 1:51:10David Sims?

  That's how I felt.

• 1:51:11Speaker 02

  I, I think when we were still in the dark as to what her actual illness was, I was not loving her performance because I thought it was a mental issue. And to me, it was a little trope.

• 1:51:24David Sims?

  Right, there's the worry of like, right, are you doing a little too, yeah, like cheesy?

• 1:51:29Griffin Newman?

  Yes. I, I didn't think it was bad, but I thought it was a little too broad. The more her kind of consciousness comes back, the better she gets. Did any of you see Primafashi?

• 1:51:40Speaker 02

  No, I wanted to.

• 1:51:41Griffin Newman?

  It is just like one of the most impressive things I've ever seen an actor do.

• 1:51:44Speaker 02

  Wait, why did you say fuck that?

• 1:51:46David Sims?

  I hate those one person shows on Broadway. And I think it's like, you know, it's impressive, like, it's like a cool trick.

• 1:51:52Griffin Newman?

  I mean, I'm like similarly like, I don't really want to see Dorian Gray, but that I, I was like, it was one of the most technically astounding things I have ever seen.

• 1:52:01Speaker 02

  I was, I bought all of my Jodie Comer stuff and I like, I did watch the first season of Killing Eve.

• 1:52:06Griffin Newman?

  I never watched Killing Eve.

• 1:52:07Speaker 02

  Which I thought was really fun.

• 1:52:08David Sims?

  I did what everyone did. I thought the first season was good. I watched like one episode of the second season.

• 1:52:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, then I'm like, I'm out. Yeah.

• 1:52:15David Sims?

  Goodbye.

• 1:52:16Griffin Newman?

  David's hit the button.

• 1:52:17Speaker 02

  But the I bought all of my Jodie Comer's stock after the last duel, which I thought she was

• 1:52:24Griffin Newman?

  Oh, she's unbelievable.

• 1:52:26David Sims?

  I mean, everyone's in that.

• 1:52:27Griffin Newman?

  You're right. It was it was that and Free Guy in the same year where I was like Free Guy is rancid dog shit. And I think she's kind of good in this.

• 1:52:35David Sims?

  Like I said, it's your favorite movie.

• 1:52:36Griffin Newman?

  And it's my favorite movie. And then Last Duel, I think she is unbelievable.

• 1:52:39Speaker 02

  Unbelievable. Yeah.

• 1:52:41Griffin Newman?

  I'm, did I give her best actress that year? I certainly nominated her.

• 1:52:43David Sims?

  Everyone's great in that movie.

• 1:52:44Speaker 02

  She should have been nominated for an Oscar.

• 1:52:46Griffin Newman?

  Maybe she should have won the Oscar. Yeah.

• 1:52:48Speaker 02

  The people.

• 1:52:49David Sims?

  Don't, don't ask me. I don't run the Oscars.

• 1:52:52Speaker 02

  People need to not sleep on that movie.

• 1:52:54Griffin Newman?

  But you're right. No, because I hadn't watched Killing Eve.

• 1:52:56David Sims?

  People need to not sleep on that movie.

• 1:52:58Speaker 02

  People need to wake the fuck up.

• 1:52:59David Sims?

  People wake up. It's time to open your third eye.

• 1:53:03Griffin Newman?

  You're right that that was my exact arc, which was I saw Free Guy without having seen Killing Eve and was like, huh, she's kind of interesting. Then I saw Last Duel and I was like, she's fucking unbelievable. Is this like actress of her generation? It is the reason.

• 1:53:16David Sims?

  Some people think like, that's kind of what she is.

• 1:53:18Griffin Newman?

  It is the reason I went to see Prima Fashi.

• 1:53:20David Sims?

  And you gave it to Rebecca Hall.

• 1:53:22Griffin Newman?

  Oh, right. Okay.

• 1:53:23David Sims?

  Which a performance I know you love.

• 1:53:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I, I, yeah, I adore. Um, but I think it's why I saw Prima Fashi, even though I do think I'm kind of allergic to that type of show. Cause I was just like, I gotta see her in person.

• 1:53:36David Sims?

  Yeah, sure. Yeah, I'm sure she was good.

• 1:53:38Griffin Newman?

  She was incredible.

• 1:53:39David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:53:39Griffin Newman?

  Um, but yes, no, it's, it's, it's a tough performance.

• 1:53:43David Sims?

  I think she's really good in the movie.

• 1:53:44Griffin Newman?

  I think she.

• 1:53:45David Sims?

  And I think like you said, those final scenes, the big emotional scenes.

• 1:53:49Griffin Newman?

  It's why you hire her.

• 1:53:50Speaker 02

  And she underplays it so beautifully.

• 1:53:52Griffin Newman?

  I will say, there is, there is a single look she gives in this movie. It is a one second reaction shot where I'm like, that's worth $20 million, you know, where I'm just like, it was, it will get to it. Remind me of this. It's in the final moment. But the movie then becomes act two is this sort of almost like Wizard of Oz quest to make it to.

• 1:54:17David Sims?

  Yeah, to the doctor. Yeah.

• 1:54:18Griffin Newman?

  Right. To see this mystery man.

• 1:54:19David Sims?

  And you're like, right, they can't just get to the doctor. So there do have to, and I think the sidetracks are. Good.

• 1:54:25Speaker 02

  We

• 1:54:25David Sims?

  And are cool.

• 1:54:25Speaker 02

  We meet a character who we haven't mentioned yet.

• 1:54:28David Sims?

  Eric.

• 1:54:28Speaker 02

  Eric, the Swedish.

• 1:54:32David Sims?

  Edwin riding.

• 1:54:33Speaker 02

  A Swedish soldier. So we're also introduced to the fact that like they retcon the end of 28 weeks later. Like the, they have successfully.

• 1:54:42David Sims?

  They don't even fully retcon it, but they're like, it was driven back.

• 1:54:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:54:45David Sims?

  So whatever you saw there was not a problem.

• 1:54:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, France is fine.

• 1:54:48David Sims?

  It out. Yes.

• 1:54:49Speaker 02

  So.

• 1:54:50David Sims?

  France so good.

• 1:54:51Speaker 02

  So, but.

• 1:54:52Griffin Newman?

  It rained and all the zombies went back to the UK.

• 1:54:54Speaker 02

  There is like, there's like an EU. Yeah.

• 1:54:57David Sims?

  Or Macron just greeted them. People like, eh, don't love your.

• 1:55:00Griffin Newman?

  Eric was getting big laughs in the theater.

• 1:55:02Speaker 02

  Oh, Eric.

• 1:55:03David Sims?

  He's fun.

• 1:55:04Speaker 02

  They introduce a really fun element through this Swedish soldier who is stranded after his quarantine boat.

• 1:55:12David Sims?

  Right. And we, we see them getting annihilated by the zombies are just cool.

• 1:55:16Griffin Newman?

  And he's the one survivor.

• 1:55:17David Sims?

  There's the whole thing with the alphas where they like pull your head off.

• 1:55:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:55:21David Sims?

  Have the spinal.

• 1:55:22Speaker 02

  That was so, that was so.

• 1:55:24Griffin Newman?

  They, they go full like fucking predator mode.

• 1:55:26David Sims?

  Yeah, predator, Borg queen, whatever. They like the, the full spine.

• 1:55:30Speaker 03

  And then they use the spine as a fucking weapon.

• 1:55:33David Sims?

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they'll do that.

• 1:55:34Speaker 02

  As a weapon, but also as a piece of art.

• 1:55:37Griffin Newman?

  I'm realizing this movie really feels like Ben was in the punch up room.

• 1:55:42Speaker 02

  A hundred percent.

• 1:55:43Griffin Newman?

  There were like six ideas in this movie that like, it doesn't feel like Ben wrote it from beginning to end. But it does feel like they said, like, do you have any ideas? And he threw them five and they used all of them.

• 1:55:55Speaker 03

  If he's ripping out their heads with their spines on it, let them use it.

• 1:55:58Griffin Newman?

  Yes. But also make it an art piece.

• 1:56:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:56:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:03Speaker 02

  But the, with the Swedish guy, they introduced this element of, oh yes, the rest of the world is exactly as it is now.

• 1:56:11David Sims?

  Yes. And basically they're just like, yeah, we just don't go there.

• 1:56:14Speaker 02

  He.

• 1:56:14David Sims?

  And Eric knows. He does have an iPhone. Eric knows.

• 1:56:19Griffin Newman?

  It's my favorite. I'm sorry. It's my favorite joke in the movie. When he shows him-

• 1:56:23David Sims?

  Oh, that he has the insane girlfriend?

• 1:56:24Griffin Newman?

  The picture of his girlfriend and he goes, what's wrong with her face? And you're like, oh, right. Part of UK culture ending in 2002 is that they never had the modern horrors of-

• 1:56:36Speaker 02

  Love Island face.

• 1:56:38Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:56:38Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah.

• 1:56:39David Sims?

  Or had only begun. The sickness had not spread or evolved.

• 1:56:42Griffin Newman?

  I feel like I am going insane every time Instagram shows me a person who has that face. I feel like Ben, you and I have complained about this, that now suddenly increasingly everyone has the same face.

• 1:56:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:55Griffin Newman?

  And the face freaks me out. I don't like the face and it's weird that everyone's sort of like starting to look identical in this pod person way. And this movie just has the best in for a joke about that I have ever seen.

• 1:57:07Speaker 02

  I'm trying to remember, there were like three things that the kid, that the Swedish guy referenced that the kid didn't understand because he was talking about radio, like he referenced radio. Was that about the phone? Like literally the phone itself? He's like, oh yeah, it's like a radio. Cause the kid's like, what is, the way, the kid's reaction to seeing a smartphone for the first time was amazing.

• 1:57:29Griffin Newman?

  But the, also seeing the picture of the ex fiance.

• 1:57:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:32Griffin Newman?

  He goes, that's what happens to my friend when he eats shellfish.

• 1:57:35Speaker 02

  Oh, it was, it was when he was describing his friend's an Amazon delivery driver.

• 1:57:39Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:57:40Speaker 02

  And he was like, I thought that was shitty, so I signed up to join the Navy and that's how I ended up here in this shitty situation.

• 1:57:46Griffin Newman?

  And the kid's just like, I have no idea what any of this-

• 1:57:48Speaker 02

  What do you mean, like when you order stuff online? I don't know what's happening.

• 1:57:53Griffin Newman?

  But also this guy's like, why the fuck did you bring your mom here? Why does your mom seemingly think that you're her husband?

• 1:58:01David Sims?

  Well, it's actually her dad.

• 1:58:02Griffin Newman?

  Her dad. Or dad, right. Um, uh-

• 1:58:05David Sims?

  But I, I think it's interesting that Eric is like, I am doomed. I'm not allowed to go back home. Like the minute you set foot on this place, that's it. Like you're considered contaminated and like you, there's no, you know, escape.

• 1:58:19Griffin Newman?

  Right. And he's just like, you're a child. Your mother does not have her wherewithal. Why would you bring her here? Like what the fuck is happening? He's angry that he saved them because he's like, you- You guys are doomed. Why did I bother saving you?

• 1:58:34Speaker 02

  I wasted bullets.

• 1:58:35David Sims?

  Like, again, like, it would be too easy to make him an out and out villain.

• 1:58:39Griffin Newman?

  And we've already kind of done that with the fucking, um.

• 1:58:42David Sims?

  Yeah, the Eccleston and all those guys, 100%. And like, but he's also not particularly heroic or nice. Spends the kind of the whole time being like, Jesus, like, why am I even hanging out with you guys? But he's also clearly, he's like, nothing else for me to do. Like, what am I gonna do? Just walk into the woods?

• 1:58:57Speaker 03

  And where it lands in the movie, it sort of settles you a little bit, takes the tension away for a little while.

• 1:59:05Speaker 02

  It was nice to have that, because they're really, because of the way that this movie is set up, we don't have the, um, I love the moment in the grocery store in 28 Days Later, where they're playing the granddaddy song, and there's like a moment of fun and joy. And like, the closest we get to that in this film is when they're having a picnic and they're eating apples, and they're talking about smartphones. And it is like this nice little, yeah, it's like a reset.

• 1:59:31Griffin Newman?

  The membrane, right. It's like bringing it back to our mentality for a moment by, by bringing in an outsider.

• 1:59:40David Sims?

  They, this is when, of course, the pregnant, uh, which we've already spotted her.

• 1:59:45Griffin Newman?

  And I, I wasn't sure if it was gonna be followed up on, but I was like, this is another interesting idea. It's like 28 years later, they would, of course, just basically settle into being their own species. They would start like sexually reproducing. It's the I am legend thing, right? Like, not I'm Legend the movie, I'm Legend the original story. The element that every movie has failed to execute, which is like, this character realizing like, am I the endangered species? And it's not about me needing to eradicate them to save humanity. They've become something else now, and I'm disturbing that.

• 2:00:19Speaker 02

  I want to talk about something that is like Marie's Griffin morbid pandemic corner, but like, not, uh, I mean, it's not specifically that, but, um, I am a married 36-year-old woman who wants to have a child. And that is something that I am like actively pursuing. But I am constantly, like, wavering.

• 2:00:46Speaker 02

  On the ethical implications.

• 2:00:48Griffin Newman?

  Marie, you and I have this conversation.

• 2:00:50Speaker 02

  A new life.

• 2:00:51Griffin Newman?

  We've had it before. Yep.

• 2:00:52Speaker 02

  Into a world that feels like it's on the precipice of ending. And to see this movie kind of make the argument for new life will go on in the worst of circumstances. We exist to live as long as we.

• 2:01:07David Sims?

  Also, the world's been ending.

• 2:01:08Speaker 02

  The world's been ending forever. And it was like, it was so, the baby is born. There's this beautiful moment.

• 2:01:14Griffin Newman?

  It's another scene that Jodie Comer destroys.

• 2:01:17Speaker 02

  The bit, so.

• 2:01:18Griffin Newman?

  We've seen her sort of like weirdly, the further she gets away from home, the more she's out in the world, she starts to, probably because she's no longer in a bubble.

• 2:01:26David Sims?

  Right. It's sort of, she's coming back to life a little bit.

• 2:01:29Griffin Newman?

  She's going in and out and they start asking her questions about her, you know, her comprehension, whatever. But they end up in this like trailer where the pregnant zombie is and is clearly on the precipice of giving birth. And rather than run in terror.

• 2:01:42David Sims?

  It's in a train. It's in a, you know, which is a very cool set that are overgrown train.

• 2:01:46Griffin Newman?

  Jodie Comer walks over to her and grabs her hands and sort of like in this silent.

• 2:01:51Speaker 02

  Helps her through labor.

• 2:01:52Griffin Newman?

  Yes. I- in this sort of through eye contact gives the like, I get it. I know.

• 2:01:58David Sims?

  Offers her hands too.

• 2:01:59Griffin Newman?

  Right. Helps her give like the pressure to push back against, right? To like exert her, her effort.

• 2:02:05Speaker 02

  I thought the baby was going to be born like a little demon, Rosemary's baby rape.

• 2:02:09David Sims?

  Yeah. I mean, Eric is having a rational reaction of like, shoot, shoot, destroy. It's a zombie baby. Yes. But they have this kind of elemental, like, no, like, it's okay. We have to, we can't, you know.

• 2:02:24Speaker 02

  The placenta is strong.

• 2:02:25Griffin Newman?

  Well, and the movie has set up when they, you know, at the checkpoint of the barrier to the mainland, it's like, check the eyes. Make sure the eyes are clean right before you let them in. There's this great tension built into the delivery of the baby, which is the baby comes out, it's covered in blood and its eyes are closed. So at first you're sort of like, I don't know if the baby's fine, right? And even if the baby is infected.

• 2:02:52Speaker 02

  How do you, how do they show, I like, was like, are they going to show them killing a baby?

• 2:02:55Griffin Newman?

  Truly.

• 2:02:55David Sims?

  I, that's the thing. I was immediately like, no, like you, you kind of always know when a property is going to make the like very, very daring decision of killing a baby.

• 2:03:07Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:03:07David Sims?

  Um, no, even a kid is-

• 2:03:09Griffin Newman?

  That's not a baby, but you know what I'm saying? When a movie is ramping up the, we're about to do something really-

• 2:03:14David Sims?

  Right, very transgressive and you're like, yeah, no, this is not, because that would just be, because, not because it's like, that's not a load, it's just because it's like, yeah, you'll lose the audience, like, they'll just be so bummed out.

• 2:03:23Griffin Newman?

  Jodie Comer basically draws the line-

• 2:03:25David Sims?

  And it'll be kinda like, why'd you do that?

• 2:03:26Griffin Newman?

  She draws the line before she can tell-

• 2:03:28David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:03:29Griffin Newman?

  That the baby isn't infected. There is the first, like, this is life, we can't kill it. It's an innocent, it's done nothing wrong. And it takes a little bit before they're just like, the baby's clean, interesting. Eric does get fucking spined.

• 2:03:43Speaker 02

  Gets spined.

• 2:03:44Griffin Newman?

  He gets spined so fucking hard.

• 2:03:46David Sims?

  And just, a horror kill that I just always love.

• 2:03:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:49David Sims?

  Dragged away.

• 2:03:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:51David Sims?

  Blah!

• 2:03:51Griffin Newman?

  Bullets firing down.

• 2:03:53David Sims?

  Piece of them returns. Like, I just always love that, I'm sorry.

• 2:03:59David Sims?

  It just always works for me.

• 2:04:00Griffin Newman?

  So now they got a baby. Now it's a sick woman, a little boy and a baby.

• 2:04:04David Sims?

  I know, it's kinda like Quiet Place where you're like, there's a fucking baby?

• 2:04:07Speaker 02

  You're also just like, how are they going to get out of this scenario? Because they are trapped in this train with the alpha with the big dick.

• 2:04:13David Sims?

  Right, and it's pretty canonical, like, alpha cannot be killed by-

• 2:04:17Speaker 02

  Bow and arrows or any, you know, and then all of a sudden, the alpha gets tranquilized by our new friend, Rafe Fiennes.

• 2:04:26Griffin Newman?

  Rafe Fiennes, who immediately shows up, winks to the camera-

• 2:04:29David Sims?

  Doctor Carlson.

• 2:04:29Griffin Newman?

  And goes, hey Griff, good luck not putting me in on your best supporting actor blankies ballot.

• 2:04:35Speaker 03

  Not to backtrack, but I just wanna quickly, because it did feel important, there's the scene where they're hiding out in the church, uh, sleeping-

• 2:04:42Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:04:43Speaker 03

  During the night, and the boy falls asleep.

• 2:04:46Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:04:47David Sims?

  And they wake up. The mom trashes one of the zombies.

• 2:04:50Griffin Newman?

  He wakes up and they see a zombie just lying there dead, and he goes, how did that happen? And she goes, I don't know. And then it flashes back to her waking up in the middle of the night and bashing his head against a fucking-

• 2:05:00Speaker 03

  Like, some kind of instinctual thing clicking for her, but she doesn't remember doing it. I just felt like there's something important about that.

• 2:05:07Griffin Newman?

  Well, see, but my question is, is it that she doesn't remember doing it?

• 2:05:10Speaker 02

  Or does she doesn't wanna, like, ruin the kid by-

• 2:05:12Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:05:13Speaker 02

  Exposing him.

• 2:05:14Griffin Newman?

  Cause also our, our first introduction to her at the beginning of the movie is her in this sort of daze. She knocks over a glass of water. They go upstairs to try to calm her down. Right? And she goes like, why aren't you in school? And Aaron Taylor Johnson says like, I told you, remember today's the day I'm taking him. And she flips out. He's a 12 year old. He's a boy. You can't take away his childhood like this. They lie to her and they go do it without her.

• 2:05:40Speaker 02

  I interpreted it as she was aware of what she was doing. She was protecting.

• 2:05:44Griffin Newman?

  I think it's a moment of cognitive clarity combined with like a mother's instincts that she in that moment makes the decision of like, I don't need to sully him with the notion of me having to do something that brutal. I'm trying to still protect him in a way.

• 2:06:01David Sims?

  Do you think in Bigger Splash, he's more of a second act entrance? I guess it's not really third act.

• 2:06:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, he's on fire in that. I certainly gave that a nomination as well. If not win?

• 2:06:13David Sims?

  Maybe.

• 2:06:14Griffin Newman?

  I might've given him the win.

• 2:06:15David Sims?

  I don't know.

• 2:06:16Griffin Newman?

  Look it up, Davey. Look it up.

• 2:06:17David Sims?

  I'll do my best.

• 2:06:18Speaker 02

  So we meet Dr. Kelson. He's covered in iod- he looks like he's covered in blood, but he's actually covered in iodine, which is a repellent.

• 2:06:25David Sims?

  Prophylactic.

• 2:06:26Griffin Newman?

  This guy has basically just been spending decades doing like R and D. Right?

• 2:06:32David Sims?

  Sure. I guess so. But it's not just that. He's also been doing art, land art. There's a scene earlier when the, you know, where they find the angel of the north, which is, it's whole movie's set in the Northumberland region. I went to school at Newcastle. Everyone's got a Geordie accent.

• 2:06:46Griffin Newman?

  Biting through my tongue right now.

• 2:06:48David Sims?

  Hey, relax. And the angel of the north is this beautiful piece of public art that was built in like the 90s to the 2000s. Like it's not that old.

• 2:06:55Speaker 02

  It was built in the, I believe the early 2000s. Um, it is, it was famously the most expensive valuation on Antiques Roadshow in the UK. Someone had the original maquette.

• 2:07:07David Sims?

  Sure. It was built in 1998. Sort of symbolizes the northern, you know, sort of. Resurgence post in, you know, the minor strikes and the all, you know, it's a, it's a beautiful thing. And I feel like that's what fucking Fines is doing. He's building this art that will last beyond him. Like,

• 2:07:25Griffin Newman?

  But it's also a memorial, right? This is like his version of like a, It is, but, but it's like,

• 2:07:31David Sims?

  It's for like the people, whoever they might be, right? Like who might one day come across these like cairns.

• 2:07:37Speaker 03

  It's part of the tradition of like, kind of all human civilizations, more or less of leaving these monuments.

• 2:07:44Griffin Newman?

  It's like an AIDS quilt. Because it is about like, each of these was a person.

• 2:07:50David Sims?

  Now, what is the medium?

• 2:07:52Griffin Newman?

  It's skull.

• 2:07:52David Sims?

  The medium is bone. Yeah. Medium is calcium.

• 2:07:55Griffin Newman?

  Medium B bone.

• 2:07:58Speaker 02

  So the whole time they're, you know, being introduced, introduced to Ray Fiennes, they're carrying around the spine and head of Eric, our dearly departed Swedish friend.

• 2:08:10David Sims?

  Wow, Griff, you did not, oh no, you nominated him in lead.

• 2:08:13Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:14David Sims?

  Interestingly.

• 2:08:14Griffin Newman?

  We fought about this. I think he's undeniably the lead because then he runs the table on the movie. They're both leads. I would put them both in lead. Well, you're wrong.

• 2:08:24Speaker 02

  Um, but the, he kind of, Ray Fiennes takes this very,

• 2:08:30Griffin Newman?

  Did I give him the winner? I just nominated him.

• 2:08:32David Sims?

  You gave him a nom and you gave Tom Hanks the win for a little film called Sully.

• 2:08:36Griffin Newman?

  Smart. I of course gave Ray Fiennes my best of the decade win for Grand Budapest.

• 2:08:41David Sims?

  It's so good memory.

• 2:08:42Griffin Newman?

  Uh, Marie, sorry. Go on.

• 2:08:43Speaker 02

  Um, so, uh, they're carrying around Swedish guy's head and,

• 2:08:48David Sims?

  Yeah, they hold on to it a little too long.

• 2:08:50Speaker 02

  And Ray Fiennes explains to Spike that, uh, what he's doing is he is, he thinks it's important to sort of recognize that death is a part of this existence and recognize, like, it's kind of a beautiful tribute to these people to,

• 2:09:10Speaker 02

  You know, de-skin their-

• 2:09:14Griffin Newman?

  He's built a whole system of how he fucking cleans them off.

• 2:09:16Speaker 02

  And puts them in this beautiful-

• 2:09:19Griffin Newman?

  Well, he's had time to-

• 2:09:20Speaker 02

  Sculpture.

• 2:09:20David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:21Speaker 03

  He's really refined the process.

• 2:09:22David Sims?

  He really, I mean, he, he gets Comer's head back out there fast.

• 2:09:25Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. But it is like this weird balance of what he's doing is like, he is friendly, he is sophisticated. He has clearly gone a little mad just in not communicating with other people, but not in a way that feels dangerous at all. It's just hard to sort of figure out how to connect to. And I think like, Fines is quietly one of the best chemistry actors. Not even that he's a great listener, but he just knows so well how to really lock in with any scene partner and can adjust so beautifully to anyone and doing any kind of thing, like understanding what he needs to do to tell the story.

• 2:10:04Speaker 02

  I think it's such a, it's a beautiful, um, it's like an additional male role model for this really sensitive kid who's only like example of what you're supposed to do with these creatures is kill them. And there's just so much violence and machismo.

• 2:10:23Griffin Newman?

  This is one of the only people in the movie, if not the only one, who is fully engaging with the reality of their world, is really thinking about what has happened, what is happening, you know?

• 2:10:35Speaker 02

  And he's just, he's so like sensitively attuned.

• 2:10:38Griffin Newman?

  He's really-

• 2:10:39Speaker 02

  To it.

• 2:10:39Griffin Newman?

  Sensitive.

• 2:10:40Speaker 02

  And it's, it's, it's so nice.

• 2:10:45Griffin Newman?

  He's phenomenal. The longer the movie-

• 2:10:48David Sims?

  It's just so good.

• 2:10:48Griffin Newman?

  Spent setting him up, the more I was like, I don't have any doubt he's gonna deliver, but I can't even imagine what he's gonna do. And it just, it was disarming. And as I said, the audience laughs for like the first 10 straight minutes he's on screen at our screening because they're just like, what is this guy?

• 2:11:05David Sims?

  And I think there's also the classic horror movie thing of like, I'm so relieved-

• 2:11:10Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:11:10David Sims?

  That it's, the tone has shifted.

• 2:11:11Griffin Newman?

  It's comfort.

• 2:11:12David Sims?

  Yes.

• 2:11:13Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:11:13David Sims?

  Um.

• 2:11:14Griffin Newman?

  Even if it's odd.

• 2:11:14David Sims?

  I like the ending of 28 Days Later, the third act, right? But a lot of people at the time definitely were like, eh, loses- This is in the third act. I like the zombie movie stuff. I don't like the creepy soldier.

• 2:11:23Griffin Newman?

  The man is the worst of all.

• 2:11:25David Sims?

  Right. And like now you watch the movie and you're like, no, it was kind of, it was kind of out of money.

• 2:11:32David Sims?

  But I do like that he doesn't do that again.

• 2:11:35Griffin Newman?

  No, third act is emotional.

• 2:11:37David Sims?

  It's emotional and it's not man is, you know, simply, you know, cannot be trusted to.

• 2:11:42Speaker 02

  They finally get a diagnosis for, for mom.

• 2:11:46Griffin Newman?

  Well, he clocks like that the baby is pure and he says the placental line. Yes. Um, and then God, the scene of him inspecting her is so good because he is not overplaying it. But you get this bit of, he is so happy to be doing this again, you know? Like it is so comfortable for him to go back into doctor mode, a thing he has had to abandon. In terms of the actual part of interacting with other people and trying to help them.

• 2:12:18David Sims?

  With people who are alive.

• 2:12:19Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Right. Yes. Um, and he does this sort of very gentle, I'm going to have to feel under your armpits and under your breasts. Is that okay? And you see her dealing with the intensity. He's asking the questions about, you know, like, are the phases, Marie's like choking up just thinking about this. Um, but, uh, it's, it's, it's really profound stuff. And then they're sitting by the fire. And he just says, like, obviously I don't have the equipment to do a proper test. I can't say for certain. All of the evidence point towards cancer. I don't know if it was cancer, the body that spread to the brain or cancer, the brain that spread to the body, but that explains the hallucinations and all of this. And you're sort of like, well, what does the movie do now?

• 2:13:03Griffin Newman?

  And it, without wasting time, he starts basically transitioning into the bedside conversation for the boy. When she, it's the moment that's. It's the moment that's the $20 million reaction shot for me.

• 2:13:16David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:13:17Griffin Newman?

  Is he says, I, I believe it's cancer and it cuts to Jodie Comer shifting eye line from Ray Fiennes over to her son.

• 2:13:25David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:25Griffin Newman?

  And she gives him a look like, well, it's a very gentle sort of like. Smile of like, well, that's not great.

• 2:13:32Speaker 02

  But she also

• 2:13:33Griffin Newman?

  But like, we have an answer.

• 2:13:34Speaker 02

  She also reveals that she kinda knew.

• 2:13:36Griffin Newman?

  She kind of knew. She kind of felt it.

• 2:13:38Speaker 02

  And every, all the adult, her husband, they all kinda knew and they just

• 2:13:41Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:13:41Speaker 02

  weren't telling the kid.

• 2:13:42Griffin Newman?

  She's, but she's giving him this look of like, well, we have an answer now. Like she's sort of trying to make it a little bit lighter while acknowledging like, not great news. And she's conveying like 40 lines of dialogue in like the tilt of a head of a raise of her eyebrows. Um, and it speaks so much to her relationship to her son and why she's tried to protect him. And even in this moment, doesn't receive the news before she can even process what it means for herself. She feels the need to say something to him with a look, right? Like she needs to assuage him immediately. And the movie just immediately gets into this dialogue of everyone has to die. There are many ways of dying.

• 2:14:26Griffin Newman?

  We, we have the ability to choose the way we die in certain ways.

• 2:14:30Speaker 02

  And it's not something to necessarily be scared of.

• 2:14:32Griffin Newman?

  And like

• 2:14:33Speaker 02

  Or to treat as like

• 2:14:34David Sims?

  The fucking, you know, virus or whatever has not robbed us of that completely.

• 2:14:39Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:14:40David Sims?

  Like as much as the world has ended and changed and all.

• 2:14:42Griffin Newman?

  Right. And there's this feeling of like, how do you want her to die? Like, are you going to keep outrunning the alphas? Are you going to let the cancer completely take her?

• 2:14:51David Sims?

  Right. Like her brain is obviously right. She's already losing her sense of reality or whatever.

• 2:14:56Griffin Newman?

  Or now that we know, is there like

• 2:14:58Speaker 02

  A humane dignified.

• 2:15:00Griffin Newman?

  To do it with agency and to not let her suffer anymore. And also like not let him suffer anymore.

• 2:15:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so they, she, you know, gives her son a big hug as he's hysterical.

• 2:15:12Griffin Newman?

  He's hold, she's holding him in order for Ray Fiennes to trank him so he can't fight it.

• 2:15:17Speaker 02

  Uh, this is

• 2:15:18Griffin Newman?

  He doesn't totally blackout, but he is

• 2:15:20Speaker 02

  Lose it.

• 2:15:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Lying down with the baby.

• 2:15:24Speaker 02

  And, uh, we just see her.

• 2:15:26David Sims?

  It's like life, new life, death.

• 2:15:29Griffin Newman?

  What is her final line to him? I wish I had it. But I it might even be something simple as I love you so much.

• 2:15:38Speaker 02

  And then she like walks pat like away from the fire and then the next thing we see is.

• 2:15:45Griffin Newman?

  He hits her.

• 2:15:45David Sims?

  Finds returning.

• 2:15:46Griffin Newman?

  He hits her with the trank.

• 2:15:48David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:48Griffin Newman?

  And then he does what he needs to do. And he comes back with the skull cleaned and hands it to the boy and says, you need to put it in a really important spot or something akin to that.

• 2:15:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, choose, choose where to put her on the.

• 2:16:01Griffin Newman?

  Right. Which once again, it's like, these are the choices we have are, are how we die and how we process that death and how we pay tribute to it and all of it. And he climbs up and he places the skull there. And this is the moment where I'm just like, this movie rules. Who else would fucking think to make this their fucking legacy sequel?

• 2:16:20David Sims?

  Well, that's why it's even cooler. Right. Like it'd be cool anyway, but right. The fact that it's kind of like, we got to make this sequel after years of like, nah, no one's interested. And now it's like, okay, people are interested. What do you want to do?

• 2:16:35Griffin Newman?

  His career got stuck in a rut and he's got this magic key, which is like, you know, the reason why it was so hard to see fucking 28 days and 28 leaks at the weeks at the time we did the episode two years ago, where it wasn't streamable and it wasn't rentable. They've been taken off of platforms is like 20 years later, the rights reverted back to.

• 2:16:53David Sims?

  Yeah. And then they.

• 2:16:54Griffin Newman?

  Garland Boyle and McDonald's. And they didn't resell them immediately because they were trying to do the auction of rights for the previous two. And we have scripts for three more, right? And he knows like, this is the hot hand he's holding to be able to get something greenlit. And with that hand, he's like making a pretty fucking profound movie about the human condition and our like relationship to the actual idea of life and death.

• 2:17:21David Sims?

  Right, right, right, right. But you know, who else has a hot hand? Thing else when he has the Infinity Gauntlet.

• 2:17:25Griffin Newman?

  Which he did himself.

• 2:17:26David Sims?

  He did it all himself.

• 2:17:27Griffin Newman?

  He did it all himself. It's really good shit in my opinion, and it's also like, as we're saying, it's like perfect. Boyle and Garland stuff. Neither one of them could have done this without the other.

• 2:17:39David Sims?

  I agree with you. Absolutely.

• 2:17:41Griffin Newman?

  And I like the stuff they've done separately.

• 2:17:43David Sims?

  Exactly. Right. Well.

• 2:17:45Griffin Newman?

  You know, I think of like fucking Charlie Kaufman as well, where I'm like, I love all the movies he has directed. There is still a part of me that's like, can he like let Jones or Gondry direct a thing again?

• 2:17:56David Sims?

  Yeah, because.

• 2:17:57Griffin Newman?

  It's just fun to, sometimes you get things that are.

• 2:18:00David Sims?

  The magic of movies, this collaboration.

• 2:18:02Griffin Newman?

  The whole is greater than the parts. Yeah, right.

• 2:18:05Speaker 02

  So.

• 2:18:05David Sims?

  And by the way, Boyle, of course, we should acknowledge has been in interviews acknowledging like, oh yeah, Garland had like Sunshine sequel pitches that were insane.

• 2:18:12Griffin Newman?

  Do you know this, Ben?

• 2:18:13David Sims?

  Like.

• 2:18:13Griffin Newman?

  That in recent press, he's like, what we wrote was a triptych of three movies that were connected in that they were each centered around a different planet in the solar system. They were not literally like Sunshine two, but they had like a fucking Jupiter movie and whatever. And they were like, and then Sunshine bombed and they were like, well, no one wants these scripts. And he was like, but they were good.

• 2:18:33David Sims?

  Right. That's the thing. Boyle's like, yeah, they were good. I'll let Alex explain. And people are like, what? What? No, you explain now. What are you talking? He's like, oh, I don't remember, but they were cool.

• 2:18:42Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:18:42David Sims?

  Anyway, nobody liked that movie. And then people are like, no, we like it now. And he's like, oh, that's nice.

• 2:18:46Griffin Newman?

  He's also called out that like Rothman was the head of Fox at the time that Sunshine came out and mishandled the movie and hated it and fought him on it.

• 2:18:53David Sims?

  And thought it was too bleak.

• 2:18:54Griffin Newman?

  Rothman is the guy who fucking bought the 28 package.

• 2:18:58David Sims?

  Now at Sony.

• 2:18:59Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:18:59David Sims?

  Yes. Time heals all wounds, of course, but.

• 2:19:02Griffin Newman?

  And also it's like, this guy supported us strongly in what we wanted to do, which was not the obvious thing to do with these movies.

• 2:19:07David Sims?

  What is the obvious thing? It's the only thing that I like. It's like, I don't know what I expected from this movie exactly.

• 2:19:12Griffin Newman?

  The obvious thing is, I mean, obviously open on fucking Killian Murphy's.

• 2:19:16David Sims?

  Well, that's true. Sure.

• 2:19:17Griffin Newman?

  Eyes opening up and he's like a fucking badass survivor or whatever. Right?

• 2:19:22David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:22Griffin Newman?

  Like even like within this story, the obvious thing is the kid makes it past the other side. And rather than Eric finding them at the 30 minute mark, Killian Murphy is the one who finds them and guides them or Killian Murphy is the fucking doctor or you know, any of those things.

• 2:19:37David Sims?

  Walking Dead thing of like, right. You find some village where we're like, here's our deal. You know, like, you know, we live this way.

• 2:19:43Griffin Newman?

  But I think wisely, like they kind of fucking use Killian Murphy that exact way in Quiet Place Part Two. And I, I do think this movie, as you called out, has something to come out the Quiet Place movies, which I remember when you saw it, David, and you were like, look, like. I didn't think I'd give him credit, but Krasinski locked into the right thing, which is like, this is a movie about how terrifying it feels to be a parent in a world where you don't feel like you can protect your children.

• 2:20:09David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:20:09Griffin Newman?

  And this movie is doing the same thing from a different angle. And it's, it's why it activated the shit you're saying, Marie, and why it like, pokes these bruises is it's not like fatalistic about it, but it is like, it is scary that we don't ever feel like there's any way to actually keep our children safe. And in a world that is this intense, those fears are

• 2:20:31David Sims?

  Now with all this

• 2:20:32Griffin Newman?

  The stakes are intensified, yeah.

• 2:20:34David Sims?

  The movie does have a cliffhanger. After all this wonderful stuff, and it does feel like the movie could close here, but I mean,

• 2:20:40Griffin Newman?

  This emotional day, Mont, the music swelling, and he sends the baby back to the border.

• 2:20:45Speaker 02

  In a basket.

• 2:20:46Griffin Newman?

  In a basket, like fucking Moses style.

• 2:20:48Speaker 02

  Basically like, hi dad, I'm alive.

• 2:20:50Griffin Newman?

  Explaining himself.

• 2:20:51David Sims?

  F you.

• 2:20:52Speaker 02

  This baby is not infected.

• 2:20:54Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna stay out here.

• 2:20:55Speaker 02

  I'm gonna stay out here. I have unfinished business.

• 2:20:57Griffin Newman?

  Right. And then it does, and I'm like, great ending, right? This movie could go in any direction and obviously it's opening up, like, what does this boy do next? But it does feel like this movie is a complete story. Then it does another 28 days later. And you're like, huh, what is this?

• 2:21:15David Sims?

  He's saying the text flashes on screen.

• 2:21:17Griffin Newman?

  And yes, it literally does the title card and he is like fucking throwing arrows at.

• 2:21:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's improved his.

• 2:21:26Griffin Newman?

  Right. He's gotten a little better. Within reason, right? And he sort of finds himself in a dead end where he's able to take down one, but there are more coming and he's not gonna make it. And who presents himself very loudly at the top of this wall? But Jack O'Connell.

• 2:21:43Speaker 02

  The grown up version of the little boy from the Teletubby scene in the beginning of the movie.

• 2:21:48Griffin Newman?

  Who I did not put it together, but it did blow my mind when you called it out, David. He is dressed like Jimmy Savile.

• 2:21:55Speaker 02

  And all of his minion, he's with a bunch of other people.

• 2:21:58Griffin Newman?

  Called the Jimmies.

• 2:21:58Speaker 02

  Are all dressed like Jimmy Savile.

• 2:22:00Griffin Newman?

  And they're all named Jimmy and they're called the Jimmies.

• 2:22:02David Sims?

  I'm watching this movie in an audience full of Americans. I am American. I was born in this country. I'm not, I'm trying to say I'm, you know, Fucking John Bull over here. It's America's first.

• 2:22:12Griffin Newman?

  But, but, uh, look, the audience reacts, they laughed and they just go like, who the fuck is this guy?

• 2:22:17David Sims?

  Weird. And I'm just like.

• 2:22:18Griffin Newman?

  No clocking of the semiotic.

• 2:22:19David Sims?

  Part of why I am vibrating as you guys are like, oh, you like that, right?

• 2:22:22Speaker 02

  I was freaking the fuck out.

• 2:22:25David Sims?

  He's dressed like Jimmy Savile and then I, then I took me a second to be like, right? Right. Alex Garland's, you sick fuck has, has, is going like, yeah, they wouldn't know that Jimmy Savile was bad.

• 2:22:36Griffin Newman?

  Do you know anything about Jimmy Savile then? So I feel like I know more about Jimmy Savile than most Americans and yet I did not get this at all.

• 2:22:44Speaker 02

  I re, I actually rewatched, there was like a Netflix.

• 2:22:48David Sims?

  You rewatched whatever Netflix garbage.

• 2:22:50Griffin Newman?

  I didn't rewatch it, but I watched it.

• 2:22:52Speaker 02

  I rewatched, after this? After this, cause I was like, we're gonna go into it. So I need to make sure.

• 2:22:56David Sims?

  Well, we don't have to go into.

• 2:22:57Speaker 02

  Well, the thing that I like forgot about is how like important Jimmy Savile was to like north, like the north of Britain. The fact that he was like a former coal miner from Leeds.

• 2:23:10David Sims?

  He's from Leeds, yeah. He's a Yorkshire boy.

• 2:23:12Speaker 02

  Was like very much like identified with the North of England, which this movie also is.

• 2:23:17David Sims?

  That is true. I think he, um, came up, uh, in like even once he started being a DJ and stuff like he was still in the north. He was in Salford or Manchester or wherever. And like, but like the whole thing, I was trying to explain him to people who were like, who are you talking about? And I was kinda like, I guess it was kinda like Mr. Rogers was a pedophile or whatever, but it's not quite right.

• 2:23:38Griffin Newman?

  Like Peewee Herman and also so philanthropic and all these things.

• 2:23:42David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:42Griffin Newman?

  He was this incredibly bizarre cartoonish figure.

• 2:23:45David Sims?

  That was the whole thing. I was like, it's not quite right because Mr. Rogers' whole thing was that he was super normal. And Jimmy Savile was always weird. Like he was cartoonish and he also did like Top of the Pops. He's like teen stuff.

• 2:23:55Griffin Newman?

  A light entertainer and all this sort of stuff and a personality who's like persona was so bizarre and his look was so bizarre and his energy was so bizarre.

• 2:24:02David Sims?

  He also had this show called Jim Will Fix It for many years. It was just kinda like a make a wish show where he would help sick kids.

• 2:24:08Speaker 02

  But they weren't always.

• 2:24:08Griffin Newman?

  Mr. Beast kind of like, I'm making philanthropy cool.

• 2:24:11Speaker 02

  But they weren't always like, um, sick kids. It would just be like, every little kid would write in and be like, my dream is, uh, one of the things. Was like, I want my duck to fly. I feel bad that my duck can't fly.

• 2:24:23Griffin Newman?

  So much of his cultural reputation is also like his support of children's hospitals and things like this. Like some of the stuff's entertaining and he always downplays his status and like he's fucking knighted by the queen and shit.

• 2:24:35Speaker 02

  He was like the reason why like the, like the main spinal injury hospital in the UK, like why they, like the main source of their fundraising. He was knighted. He was really close with Margaret Thatcher and really close with Prince Charles.

• 2:24:50David Sims?

  Sure. I mean, he was right.

• 2:24:52Speaker 02

  Like he advised.

• 2:24:52David Sims?

  For charity stuff. Yeah.

• 2:24:54Speaker 02

  He advised the, he advised Prince Charles when Diana died on like how to, yeah.

• 2:24:58Griffin Newman?

  Within a very short period.

• 2:24:59Speaker 02

  No, sorry. It wasn't Diana. It was Lockerbie. It was how do we like respond to the British public after Lockerbie? And so they're like in Jimmy Savile's papers, like all of these like notes to Prince Charles about like how they should address the public.

• 2:25:13Griffin Newman?

  Within very few years of his death, it came out that he was just a horrendous.

• 2:25:19David Sims?

  He was, but it was like Cosby where people knew.

• 2:25:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:25:22Griffin Newman?

  There were always the whispers.

• 2:25:23David Sims?

  The Louis Theroux documentary where he asks him about it. Like it was one of those things that people had just kind of chosen to sort of not think about.

• 2:25:30Griffin Newman?

  But like decades of child sexual assault, just to say the thing.

• 2:25:32Speaker 02

  Like be on talk shows in the 2000s where he would be like, I'm like, someone would be like, oh, you, you were a wrestler, right? And he'd like, I am the most feared, you know, man in all of the girl's schools in England or whatever. Like he would joke openly and people would laugh.

• 2:25:47Griffin Newman?

  Lifelong bachelor and they sort of like presented as sort of a joke of like, is this guy asexual? And then there'd be the whispers of like, it's kind of weird. And he would always diffuse it with this attitude of like, I hate children. I don't like talking to children.

• 2:26:02David Sims?

  Uh, any, look.

• 2:26:03Griffin Newman?

  Anyway.

• 2:26:04David Sims?

  The whole thing with him was.

• 2:26:04Griffin Newman?

  This movie is like saying, what if Bill Cosby was never exposed and you had a gang of people who were all wearing Cosby sweaters? And we're like, we're the Huxtables.

• 2:26:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:26:14Griffin Newman?

  You know?

• 2:26:15David Sims?

  Where it's, I, it's intentionally.

• 2:26:16Griffin Newman?

  But this guy was so important to British.

• 2:26:18Speaker 02

  It's so disturbing.

• 2:26:19Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:26:20David Sims?

  He was retired by the time I moved to Britain. He was still known. He was still a figure. He was never that important. He was just sort of famous, like in a weird way. He was just a weird famous guy. And like a light entertainer, like Britain has lots of light entertainer celebrities where you're like, what do you do exactly? It's like, I don't know, host TV shows.

• 2:26:41Griffin Newman?

  Looks like this Ben, where everyone in retrospect is like, why weren't we like raising flags about this guy all the fucking time?

• 2:26:48David Sims?

  And to be clear, like when he was exposed, it was part of also just this big sort of investigation of a lot of figures who had abused people and it wasn't just.

• 2:26:57Griffin Newman?

  It was a little similar to.

• 2:26:58David Sims?

  Culture of Silence.

• 2:26:59Griffin Newman?

  Scandal here of just like, right, how systemic.

• 2:27:01David Sims?

  What I think Garland is playing with, right, is that it's so disturbing. They're so disturbing, but also, right, the sort of warped sensibility of Britain like, like had like, and like.

• 2:27:13Griffin Newman?

  This odd kind of like weaponized avuncular kind of like friendliness, right? That is like creepy, eerie.

• 2:27:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's so scary.

• 2:27:22David Sims?

  But it is quite a third rail for them to be touching in Britain. Everyone else will just kind of be like, whatever.

• 2:27:27Griffin Newman?

  And let's be clear, the movie also ends at this point, right?

• 2:27:30Speaker 02

  That's sure does.

• 2:27:31Griffin Newman?

  You're introduced to a whole new silo of culture, including the face of it being a known actor who is then third billed in the end credits of the movie. And you're like, okay, so that's the fucking second movie. But it is just like, there is a kind of period at the end of a paragraph of him, the voiceover of the letter to the dad and the baby arriving at the gates and everything. And then this is absolutely just a next week on Lost.

• 2:27:57Speaker 03

  I fucking love it. It reminded me of, uh, like the filmmaking is kind of like Mighty Morphin Power Rangers, the way the action is filmed.

• 2:28:06David Sims?

  They're all kind of like doing little cartwheels and shit.

• 2:28:09Griffin Newman?

  Like brightly colored jumpsuits.

• 2:28:11Speaker 02

  It was, it was so silly and ridiculous.

• 2:28:13David Sims?

  You have, um, what's her name? Aaron Kellyman.

• 2:28:16Griffin Newman?

  Yes. And there was another known actor.

• 2:28:18David Sims?

  Emma Laird, who I think is in, uh, whatever. She's in The Brutalist in a small role or, you know, she's, she's coming.

• 2:28:25Griffin Newman?

  Isn't she the wife, Nivola's wife? Am I wrong about that?

• 2:28:27David Sims?

  That's right. Yeah.

• 2:28:28Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:29Speaker 02

  Um, but I, that was why.

• 2:28:31David Sims?

  Remember The Brutalist?

• 2:28:32Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:28:33Speaker 02

  The Sav.

• 2:28:34Griffin Newman?

  What was that? I'm hearing about this for the first time.

• 2:28:37Speaker 02

  The Savile stuff is why I thought they kept the embargo.

• 2:28:41David Sims?

  Maybe. I mean, yeah, I

• 2:28:43Speaker 02

  I don't think it would have made a difference in this country, but I have no idea. I haven't read any UK critics. How are people?

• 2:28:50David Sims?

  I, I, look, I can't speak to how Sony does business, but in my opinion, they do business a little weird. We're deep enough in the podcast that I can slightly cast shade on.

• 2:28:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:28:59David Sims?

  They do this a lot. Like, I don't know why.

• 2:29:01Speaker 02

  It's a really good movie. Everyone was like, this movie must be bad because they're not showing it to people.

• 2:29:06Griffin Newman?

  Instances of this, not just Sony in the last couple of years, where you see a movie like fucking

• 2:29:10David Sims?

  Touchy.

• 2:29:11Griffin Newman?

  Like you, there are movies you've seen like 36 hours or less before they start screening publicly, commercially, where you're like, why the fuck weren't they showing this to us three weeks ago? Everyone likes this.

• 2:29:25David Sims?

  I also think there's

• 2:29:27Griffin Newman?

  This movie is obviously a little more odd.

• 2:29:29David Sims?

  There's something about a lot of publicists who I, you know, love and respect a lot of publicists that I work with, but we're like, they seem to think the closer to sort of release that a critic sees the movie, the better. Like a kind of like, well, we need it to be fresh. Like you need to write your review with, you know, needs to be this sort of exciting. And I'm just like, I don't think that's true.

• 2:29:51Griffin Newman?

  Bane of your existence where you think a lot of

• 2:29:53David Sims?

  It's not mine because I'm not like poor David Ehrlich, who has to hit every embargo.

• 2:29:57Griffin Newman?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 2:29:58David Sims?

  If you work for a trade.

• 2:29:59Griffin Newman?

  When I say bane of your existence, I think not that you feel like you're struggling with it, but you feel like it's detrimental to film culture.

• 2:30:07David Sims?

  Yeah. I mean, sure. I mean, look, we're all, we all want the best for movies right now.

• 2:30:13Griffin Newman?

  But look, uh, materialists, a movie I liked a tremendous amount. You did not really like Marie maybe as in between the two of us, right? Marie and I were talking about last night. It is one of the great conversational movies, or rather, let me say, conversation movies in recent memory where every conversation I've had about this film in the last week has been fascinating to me and like, not even argumentative. I'm like, you know, there's shit like Last Jedi where I'm like, I'm so tired. I know what I think about this. I'm not interested in litigating it with other people anymore. Whereas materialist, I'm talking to people who I strongly disagree with and I'm like, this is interesting and I think the movie is kind of designed to provoke these conversations.

• 2:30:54Griffin Newman?

  And yet I completely understand why they did not have that film play at a single fucking festival and went wide in the first weekend because they were selling it as a thing that it is absolutely the antithesis of. It is one of the most antagonistic like bite the hand movies based on the expectations that they sold people. And I'm like, that's a movie that you don't want too many people writing about before the weekend.

• 2:31:19David Sims?

  They do that all the time. It's just they've never done it with a comedy before.

• 2:31:22Griffin Newman?

  Twenty eight, it's.

• 2:31:23David Sims?

  They usually do with horror movies.

• 2:31:24Griffin Newman?

  Exactly. It is the first time they have successfully figured out how to do their horror thing on a different genre. But 28 years later is not like that. It's not like, oh, fuck. Audiences are going to be furious.

• 2:31:37David Sims?

  And I've had a lot of.

• 2:31:39Speaker 02

  I am seeing stuff on Reddit. Sorry. But like, people being like, oh, I think people are going to be disappointed because it's not as much of a zombie movie. The scares aren't there.

• 2:31:50David Sims?

  It has a lot of zombie action. I find that kind of odd.

• 2:31:54Speaker 02

  I was stressed out like for the first two thirds of the movie.

• 2:32:02Griffin Newman?

  Bubba Wallace here from 2311 Racing. You know what's slower than a pace car?

• 2:32:08Griffin Newman?

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• 2:32:34Griffin Newman?

  Can I go back to my popcorn line conversation with the great Hilary Bussis? And telling her, I don't think the previous movies are going to tie in that much to this. And I said, you know what I'm really hoping for? Like in this moment of realizing, I don't actually really know much about this movie, but I want it to be good, obviously. I'm like, I just want fucking the Romero approach. You know, like every 10 years, George Romero made a different zombie movie. And the connective tissue was, this is a zombie movie made by George Romero. Right? They are basically like anthology films. They're tracking this culture and this world he's built. But we're not following characters. They're not building off the plot of each other.

• 2:33:16Griffin Newman?

  And he is just going like, what's another thing I want to say about the idea of this happening to a society? And I do think that's what this movie's doing first and foremost, right? It's like Boyle and Garland being like, you know what? We got different shit we can say about zombies than the very specific shit we said in 2002. That's what I want. I don't know if people want this to be the kind of like, I don't know. It's an odd question of like, what does 28 days later as like a brand representing people's minds?

• 2:33:47David Sims?

  Yeah. What do they, right. What do they, what's, it's a very, so are they being denied? I mean, you're right that it's Killian.

• 2:33:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:53David Sims?

  I guess.

• 2:33:54Speaker 02

  But I think you, you kind of hit the nail on the head with like,

• 2:33:56David Sims?

  Thank you.

• 2:33:57Speaker 02

  My, um, my, my reaction to rewatching 28 Days Later for, uh, the Boyle series where I remember it, I remember it being good and scary from when I first saw the movie. And then as I saw it, I watched it again. I'm like, this is profound. This is political. This is so interesting.

• 2:34:18David Sims?

  Our episode with David Reese, very good.

• 2:34:20Speaker 02

  A great episode.

• 2:34:21Griffin Newman?

  But it's also like a punishing movie, like a movie that keeps you in a miserable space.

• 2:34:25Speaker 02

  But as I'm watching it, I'm like, this, this movie's really smart. And it does not feel like, oh, like it, it is now at the top of my Boyle rankings, but it was like, I doesn't really feel like as much of a classic horror movie to me.

• 2:34:38Griffin Newman?

  No, but I also think that's the Romero approach. And you watch those films and there are less horror films than even like the other straight horror movies that Romero made in his career. And it's like, it's him being like, I have no interest in making Night of the Living Dead 2. I won't make a different zombie movie.

• 2:34:54Speaker 02

  Well, that's why I'm just like, if you talk about like, what is the? Like, what are the fandom?

• 2:34:58Griffin Newman?

  I don't know.

• 2:34:59Speaker 02

  Like, I don't know.

• 2:35:00Griffin Newman?

  Cause as much as obviously Killian is like, you know, in his like coronation moment, it's not like Killian Murphy in 28 Days Later is like Snake Plissken, right? It's not like we're dealing with like, one of the great icons of horror where people are just like, I want to see him fucking ripping heads.

• 2:35:16David Sims?

  Say you had a Snake Plissken, that alpha.

• 2:35:19Griffin Newman?

  That's like a, that's like a, like a 5D joke.

• 2:35:24Griffin Newman?

  That's a joke riffing on.

• 2:35:25David Sims?

  It's a glowing. We're gonna trap the entity in it?

• 2:35:29Griffin Newman?

  That's a joke riffing on our 20 minute side tangent of, do you think Snake Plissken is packing?

• 2:35:35David Sims?

  Does the tattoo go on the dick too, is the other question?

• 2:35:37Speaker 02

  Wait, okay, so we can't really do the box office.

• 2:35:39David Sims?

  No, I, I was about to say, we're gonna be done.

• 2:35:41Griffin Newman?

  It's gonna open to around 30. It's doing very well in pre-sales. I'm hoping it overperforms, but 30 would be a total triumph for this movie.

• 2:35:47David Sims?

  Basically, it seems like this week's box office is gonna be kinda like three movies making around 30, like How to Train Your Dragon.

• 2:35:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:35:54David Sims?

  You know, Second Weekend, this, and Elio, which is not Italian.

• 2:35:59Griffin Newman?

  Do you guys know about Ooh? Disney Emoji Blitz just started its Elio event. I've been introduced to a new character named Ooh.

• 2:36:05David Sims?

  Like, oh, oh, oh?

• 2:36:07Griffin Newman?

  Uh, five Os.

• 2:36:08Speaker 02

  Ooh.

• 2:36:09Griffin Newman?

  Yes. And it is a tiny little blue supercomputer that looks like a bubble with eyes and a mouth voiced by Shirley Henderson.

• 2:36:19David Sims?

  That sounds all right.

• 2:36:19Griffin Newman?

  And I'm like, I'm getting excited about Elio for the first time.

• 2:36:23David Sims?

  I've heard Elio's kinda charming.

• 2:36:24Griffin Newman?

  I've heard it's kinda charming, but Ooh might have the juice.

• 2:36:27David Sims?

  It just seems to be.

• 2:36:28Griffin Newman?

  Is Ooh about to have a mini-me summer? Is Ooh gonna do what Claude couldn't?

• 2:36:32David Sims?

  I mean, one hopes, uh, can do, he can at least do what Claude couldn't. Claude did zilch.

• 2:36:38Speaker 02

  Um, there is one thing that's not related to.

• 2:36:41Griffin Newman?

  Claude has a manosphere podcast.

• 2:36:43Speaker 02

  We have to talk about it.

• 2:36:44David Sims?

  Wait, wait, just to say the other movie, I think Lilo and Stitch, I guess, is still hanging around. Ballerina has sunk like a stone. Mission Impossible held really well last weekend, but is that a Father's Day thing?

• 2:36:55Griffin Newman?

  A little Father's Day pop. I mean, it's funny for how much they tangled themselves in knots to try to course correct from what they saw as the underperformance of Dead Reckoning. This movie is gonna end up within a 10% difference of what Dead Reckoning did at, like, double the budget.

• 2:37:14David Sims?

  I mean, I don't care.

• 2:37:15Griffin Newman?

  The movie is good and normal and they're not owned and everyone who worked on it is happy.

• 2:37:19David Sims?

  And, you know, it has just the right amount of exposition to explain everything for the emotions.

• 2:37:24Griffin Newman?

  For the emotions that pay off.

• 2:37:26David Sims?

  Uh, I mean, I made a dismissive face.

• 2:37:28Griffin Newman?

  We all remember that the last 20 minutes of Mission Impossible: Final Reckoning are akin to Big Fish.

• 2:37:34David Sims?

  I mean, I feel like he thinks that's true or whatever. Um, but, uh, uh, wait, I had a point to make about Mission Impossible. Like, I don't need there to be another one, so I don't need it to do well, per se. I mean, I want movies to do well.

• 2:37:46Griffin Newman?

  The great news is Macquarie's cracked it. He knows what he would do for nine.

• 2:37:49Speaker 02

  The actual great news is that Tom Cruise will be getting an honorary Oscar.

• 2:37:53Griffin Newman?

  Now you text us this and you go, does this mean they're shooting his chances of a competitive in the foot? And I call out, they finally gave Paul Newman the honorary Oscar 12 months before he wins competitively. For Color of Money, a film co-starring Tom Cruise. And then we clocked a couple other examples. Uh, Charlie Chaplin, they give him the very odd kind of multi-asterisked, uh, score. Limelight Award, uh, one year before they give him, or one year after they give him the honorary.

• 2:38:25Speaker 02

  And then Spike Lee wins, uh, screenplay for Black Klansman after he was given an honorary career award.

• 2:38:31Griffin Newman?

  I, I think the thing that is, right, it's bizarre that it feels like Tom is about to transition back into making a tour. Serious acting movies again. So here's a moment where he's maybe going to be gunning for the Oscar again. Why give him the award now? Also, the stunt category is being introduced.

• 2:38:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. I also think like, I'm sorry, like I, they gotta have this in the ceremony.

• 2:38:50Griffin Newman?

  This is my fucking thing. I'm like, you guys are demented. If you're giving Tom Cruise an honorary award and it's going to be fucking part of a clip package that they throw to and go like, no, six months ago, we had a fun dinner.

• 2:39:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, no.

• 2:39:04Griffin Newman?

  And he's like fucking dancing with Debbie Allen on stage. Yeah.

• 2:39:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, no. Um, okay, so.

• 2:39:09Griffin Newman?

  Dolly Parton too. I'm like, fucking Dolly Parton and Tom Cruise getting Oscars.

• 2:39:13Speaker 02

  Put it, put it on my TV.

• 2:39:15David Sims?

  Don't, don't, I'm, I'm, I'm all for it. I support you guys. I'm interested in that production designer too. Give him 10 minutes.

• 2:39:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:39:22David Sims?

  Seems like a cool guy.

• 2:39:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, everyone.

• 2:39:24David Sims?

  Worked with Spike.

• 2:39:25Speaker 02

  I love, I love honorary Oscars.

• 2:39:27David Sims?

  Me too, but I cannot deny that back in the day, even me who loves the Oscars, you know, you would be kind of in the momentum of like, okay, it seems like this movie. And then it would be like screech 20 minutes of Blake Edwards where you're like, I love Blake Edwards.

• 2:39:41Speaker 02

  But remember when he came out and he did a physical stunt in his wheelchair?

• 2:39:44David Sims?

  Yes, Murray, I remember that, but then he talked for a while.

• 2:39:46Griffin Newman?

  Remember when Stanley Donan did soft shoe?

• 2:39:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, that's just great.

• 2:39:51Griffin Newman?

  Robert Allman talking about his baboon heart? I can't remember if it was a baboon heart.

• 2:39:56Speaker 02

  Griffin has a really important announcement.

• 2:39:58Griffin Newman?

  For the listeners, everyone in this room knows.

• 2:39:59Speaker 02

  Everyone in this room knows.

• 2:40:01Griffin Newman?

  The David Lynch estate auction was happening a couple of weeks ago. When JJ and AJ, our Jays, were in town, we were all hanging out and looking at our phones and being like, we should have something, right? It just feels like we should get something from it. And at that moment, the item with the lowest listed price was.

• 2:40:22David Sims?

  Do you have to read it aloud because he doesn't know what the fuck it's called, even though he spent dollars on it?

• 2:40:27Griffin Newman?

  Excuse me, we spent dollars on it?

• 2:40:29Speaker 03

  I have to actually bleep.

• 2:40:31David Sims?

  Yeah, I'm a little mad if you spent the company's money on that, I will say. I like a little.

• 2:40:37Speaker 02

  Well, we will say, we did look it up and face value.

• 2:40:41David Sims?

  I don't care.

• 2:40:42Speaker 02

  More expensive.

• 2:40:43Griffin Newman?

  MSRP.

• 2:40:43David Sims?

  I don't give a shit.

• 2:40:44Griffin Newman?

  The Acolo Blue Atmospheric Water Generator. It is a water cooler that makes water from the air. It extracts the moisture in the air.

• 2:40:56David Sims?

  That's called a dehumidifier.

• 2:40:58Griffin Newman?

  No, it's not. It's called an Acolo Bloom.

• 2:41:01Speaker 03

  That we're gonna, I suppose, store it in?

• 2:41:03Griffin Newman?

  Windows.

• 2:41:03David Sims?

  No, no.

• 2:41:04Griffin Newman?

  Where do, where do you think?

• 2:41:06David Sims?

  I don't know. I didn't tell you to buy that. I think this is where me and Ben are gonna be like, you know what? It's time to have a conversation about stuff that goes through.

• 2:41:13Speaker 02

  We have the measurements. It's not that big, but we're not taking it out of the packaging.

• 2:41:18David Sims?

  I don't care.

• 2:41:19Speaker 02

  Because the packaging is addressed to David Lynch care of David Lynch.

• 2:41:24David Sims?

  Yes, I'm aware of that. He must have sent it to himself.

• 2:41:27Speaker 02

  But isn't that cool?

• 2:41:28David Sims?

  No, this whole thing is scammy to me. I find it.

• 2:41:32Griffin Newman?

  This whole thing is scam?

• 2:41:33David Sims?

  The Lynch auction thing, I found it all a little like, ooh, sorry.

• 2:41:38Speaker 02

  Sorry, we bought the cheapest lot.

• 2:41:40David Sims?

  I'm aware of what you did. Yes, I'm well aware.

• 2:41:43Griffin Newman?

  cheapest by a good distance. And to be clear, I put it on my own credit card.

• 2:41:47David Sims?

  Oh, okay. Well, then I don't care. You do what you want.

• 2:41:49Griffin Newman?

  Okay, but it is living in the studio.

• 2:41:51David Sims?

  Where? Point?

• 2:41:53Speaker 02

  Over there. We can put, see the stuff that's like

• 2:41:56Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, we'll move the water stand.

• 2:41:58Speaker 02

  You know, like it's

• 2:41:59David Sims?

  We're gonna have like a dirty box with like a weird, I just

• 2:42:02Griffin Newman?

  Looks pretty clean to me.

• 2:42:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, people are gonna be really, people are gonna be like, oh my God, that's the David Lynch water.

• 2:42:09Griffin Newman?

  Ben is like rubbing his

• 2:42:10David Sims?

  Ben, please weigh in, because I feel on an island right now. I feel like I'm on Linda's farm.

• 2:42:14Speaker 03

  I mean,

• 2:42:15Griffin Newman?

  What about like right there?

• 2:42:16Speaker 03

  We've been trying to make small improvements to the office.

• 2:42:18Griffin Newman?

  We've been doing a lovely job.

• 2:42:19Speaker 02

  The porch now, it looks incredible.

• 2:42:21David Sims?

  Ben's made it look so nice in here.

• 2:42:23Speaker 03

  And I think there's a lot of other improvements.

• 2:42:26David Sims?

  For example.

• 2:42:27Speaker 03

  Yes, yes. There's a lot of other improvements. I think at some point we maybe want to get the arcade cabinet. Like, I just, I just think like

• 2:42:35Griffin Newman?

  What about like right there in that little alcove, right there?

• 2:42:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, there are so many spots where the log is. That could be the David Lynch alcove. We can put the log on top of the box for the water machine.

• 2:42:45Griffin Newman?

  Forty seven by twenty by twenty.

• 2:42:48David Sims?

  I don't know. I mean, sure. Twenty, twenty inches? More than a foot? Almost two?

• 2:42:54Griffin Newman?

  Forty seven by twenty by twenty.

• 2:42:56David Sims?

  Ben, I need you to join me or else I'll give up.

• 2:42:59Speaker 03

  Okay, I mean, I think, listen.

• 2:43:01Griffin Newman?

  There's a reason we're talking about this, Amay.

• 2:43:03Speaker 03

  We're going to have to

• 2:43:04Griffin Newman?

  It's time for you, the listener, to weigh in.

• 2:43:07Speaker 03

  We're at some point going to run out of room.

• 2:43:09David Sims?

  Yep. It's not that big a space.

• 2:43:12Speaker 03

  And there's, I have some, I have plans and I want to make some further improvements, especially because we're resigning our lease.

• 2:43:18Griffin Newman?

  You want to build a bone temple?

• 2:43:19David Sims?

  I mean, and we should talk about that. We're resigning our lease.

• 2:43:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, and there's, you know, there's certain investments and things I want to do. So I would say, how about we compromise? And we allow for it to live here for a select period of time.

• 2:43:35David Sims?

  That feels like quite the compromise on our side.

• 2:43:39Speaker 03

  I

• 2:43:40David Sims?

  Like, where's it gonna go eventually?

• 2:43:42Speaker 03

  I'm saying that it's not permanent, David.

• 2:43:44Griffin Newman?

  Here's what I will say.

• 2:43:45Speaker 03

  Tried to find a nice sweet spot in the middle.

• 2:43:47Griffin Newman?

  I will agree to.

• 2:43:49Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:43:50Griffin Newman?

  A provisional trial period.

• 2:43:54Speaker 02

  If we all flip like-

• 2:43:55Griffin Newman?

  I don't want it baked in that it is temporary. I will agree to give it some time. And if we all dislike it, I will figure out somewhere else for it to live.

• 2:44:05Speaker 02

  I just-

• 2:44:05Griffin Newman?

  But I want it to have its trial period and to be given an honest shake.

• 2:44:10David Sims?

  That's all right.

• 2:44:11Speaker 02

  I foresee, oh, they're shaking hands.

• 2:44:12David Sims?

  I think that's fine.

• 2:44:14Speaker 02

  I mean, I foresee this as a really important conversation piece. I think people are going to come in to record and be like, oh, is that the David Lynch water thing? And you go, yes, look at it.

• 2:44:24David Sims?

  Wait, wait, wait, can you continue the conversation? Or is it kind of wrapping up around there?

• 2:44:29Speaker 03

  Oh, wow. He delivered it to himself. Cool.

• 2:44:31Speaker 02

  And also-

• 2:44:31Speaker 03

  Okay, and then what's the next step?

• 2:44:33Griffin Newman?

  By the way, if some fucking rage virus takes over-

• 2:44:37Speaker 02

  Yes, this is so important.

• 2:44:38Griffin Newman?

  And our fucking water system collapses-

• 2:44:40Speaker 02

  It's gonna be useful.

• 2:44:41Griffin Newman?

  Then guess what? We got this fucking-

• 2:44:43Speaker 02

  We can make water from the air.

• 2:44:45Griffin Newman?

  -hyper useful machine for a hundred dollars off-

• 2:44:47David Sims?

  It needs to be like plugged into power.

• 2:44:48Griffin Newman?

  Retail price. Have you put this, have you updated your bowl rankings? I haven't. I'm just curious if you already did.

• 2:44:53David Sims?

  Yes, I have, and I put it fifth. I put it, so my top four, I feel like is pretty ironclad of like Job, Sunshine, Trainspotting, 28 Days Later. And I put it fifth. I put it above Shallow Grave, which I had sixth. And Slum, you know, like the sort of next package of like Shallow Grave, T2, Slumdog, Millions, 127 Hours. The kind of like, good, but not great sort of region for me.

• 2:45:19Griffin Newman?

  I probably put it at the bottom of that tier, but I like this movie a tremendous amount. It maybe has more to say about me liking-

• 2:45:24David Sims?

  Wait, you would put this below like 127 Hours and Millions?

• 2:45:27Griffin Newman?

  I love 127 Hours. I put this, I put this-

• 2:45:29David Sims?

  Oh, no, I like this way. I love this movie.

• 2:45:31Speaker 02

  This is like maybe number three for me.

• 2:45:33Griffin Newman?

  I put this below 127. I definitely put it above Millions.

• 2:45:37David Sims?

  Sure. Slumdog?

• 2:45:39Griffin Newman?

  I put it above Slumdog.

• 2:45:40David Sims?

  Shallow Grave?

• 2:45:42Griffin Newman?

  I put it above Shallow Grave.

• 2:45:43David Sims?

  Trainspotting 2?

• 2:45:45Griffin Newman?

  I put it below Trainspotting 2, which I also love. That movie hits really hard.

• 2:45:48Speaker 02

  My, my ranking, I have 28 Days Later, the-

• 2:45:52Griffin Newman?

  That's your number one.

• 2:45:52Speaker 02

  That's my number one.

• 2:45:53Griffin Newman?

  Oh.

• 2:45:54Speaker 02

  The Isles of Wonder opening ceremonies, I included in my rank at number two. And then I

• 2:46:01David Sims?

  I mean, great, great call. I mean, we love it, obviously.

• 2:46:04Speaker 02

  This movie, number three, Twenty Years, number three. I just really like this world.

• 2:46:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:46:10Speaker 02

  And Steve Jobs, Trainspotting, Sunshine, T2, Slumdog, Millions, Yesterday, Shadow, Shallow Grave, Life Less Ordinary.

• 2:46:16David Sims?

  You have Yesterday over Shallow Grave?

• 2:46:18Speaker 02

  I liked Yesterday. I really liked Yesterday. I just think it's really nice that there's a movie about how the Beatles are really special.

• 2:46:26David Sims?

  You know, no one's ever acknowledged that the Beatles are special.

• 2:46:28Griffin Newman?

  Can I say it? I think our fucking episode helped the reputation of that movie.

• 2:46:34Speaker 02

  I love that episode.

• 2:46:35Griffin Newman?

  I'm not putting self-importance on us.

• 2:46:37David Sims?

  Reputation was so poor that even a Lowly Podcast episode could be like a shot of adrenaline.

• 2:46:43Griffin Newman?

  But also, like, fucking, Zachary's the magic man. It's so hard to disagree with him. As you put it, no one beats the Zachster.

• 2:46:49Speaker 02

  People clowned on that movie for, like,

• 2:46:51David Sims?

  I don't think he's helped Rollerball.

• 2:46:54Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:46:54Speaker 02

  Rollerball is

• 2:46:55Griffin Newman?

  But he was trash.

• 2:46:56David Sims?

  Not detecting anything.

• 2:46:57Griffin Newman?

  Let's be clear. He wasn't attempting to help Rollerball.

• 2:46:59David Sims?

  No, he was sort of like, I had fun.

• 2:47:01Griffin Newman?

  He was litigating his history with it, whereas I think he was making the case, and I think it made people watch Yesterday who hadn't seen it before. And I just increasingly will have people come up to me and say, you know what's quietly one of the best episodes you guys ever did? Yesterday. And by the way, I like that movie. I've had that conversation a lot.

• 2:47:21David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:47:21Griffin Newman?

  Strangers and Friends, both.

• 2:47:24David Sims?

  Right. President Trump said that to you.

• 2:47:26Griffin Newman?

  He did.

• 2:47:26David Sims?

  When you had your summit with him.

• 2:47:27Griffin Newman?

  And I said, I'm hearing this for the first time. Wow.

• 2:47:29David Sims?

  Okay, here at the end of the episode, I just want to do a quick shout out. Past and future guest Ben David recently

• 2:47:36Griffin Newman?

  Ben David Grubinski.

• 2:47:37David Sims?

  attended a wedding.

• 2:47:40Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:47:40Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:47:41Griffin Newman?

  Do you know about this? Did I send this to the group?

• 2:47:43David Sims?

  I'm not sure. But I just wanted to shout out Taylor and Kyle. Congratulations. They actually met through their shared love of the podcast.

• 2:47:53Griffin Newman?

  Taylor was the editor on A Different Man, one of my favorite movies of last year.

• 2:47:57David Sims?

  Good movie.

• 2:47:58Griffin Newman?

  He's a wonderful editor. And

• 2:48:00David Sims?

  But horribly edited. Just kidding.

• 2:48:02Griffin Newman?

  Met him. I knew he was a listener. I was a fan of his work.

• 2:48:05David Sims?

  I love that. Like, this is an old episode where I'm like, love that movie, except for whatever fucker edited it.

• 2:48:10Griffin Newman?

  Cuts. Real weird reliance on star wipes. But he, he had not told me that they fucking bonded over the podcast and that's. So yes, congrats to them.

• 2:48:24David Sims?

  Speaking of.

• 2:48:25Griffin Newman?

  And also to call out past and future guest friend of the show, as of right now, on the calendar, January 2026, 28 years later, part two, colon, the bone temple directed by Nia de Costa.

• 2:48:36David Sims?

  And we're gonna do it, right?

• 2:48:38Griffin Newman?

  We're doing.

• 2:48:38David Sims?

  All right, cool.

• 2:48:39Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, but it's just, it's funny.

• 2:48:40David Sims?

  We will. I mean, I suppose we kind of have to. I mean, it's not a Boyle film.

• 2:48:44Griffin Newman?

  No, but I think we have to. I don't know. If we do it on main feeder Patreon, we have to cover it in some way. It is funny that we had fucking Nia on trance.

• 2:48:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, right.

• 2:48:52David Sims?

  That's true.

• 2:48:53Griffin Newman?

  Talking Danny Boyle and then like six months later.

• 2:48:55Speaker 02

  Did she know?

• 2:48:57Griffin Newman?

  No, no.

• 2:48:58Speaker 02

  Did he listen to that episode?

• 2:49:00Griffin Newman?

  Who knows? I have questions, but I don't have answers.

• 2:49:03Speaker 02

  Okay. Well, Danny Boyle, let us know if you know who we are. We love you, especially David. David really loves you.

• 2:49:10Griffin Newman?

  Can I say a really annoying thing in my life? I keep getting emails inviting me to screenings of movies. I am very eager to see. This is not a thing that has happened often and it's been ramping up the last couple of months. They keep sending me fucking LA screenings.

• 2:49:25David Sims?

  They just think you're a big Hollywood boy.

• 2:49:27Griffin Newman?

  Who thinks that and why? I try so hard to message to everybody. I'm downtown Griffins. I'm eating a dirty water dog. I'm, I'm walking a pigeon. I'm saluting the Statue of Liberty.

• 2:49:40Speaker 02

  Hey, Griffin, do you like your bagels toasted?

• 2:49:43Griffin Newman?

  Well, I feel like I can't answer this.

• 2:49:46Speaker 02

  Because you, you have the wrong opinion.

• 2:49:48David Sims?

  Oh.

• 2:49:49Griffin Newman?

  I have the opinion that's not seen as the real New Yorker's opinion.

• 2:49:51Speaker 02

  Right. Which is you like toasted bagels.

• 2:49:52Griffin Newman?

  I like, I like toast.

• 2:49:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't, I don't fuck with.

• 2:49:55Griffin Newman?

  But I think it's about the water.

• 2:49:56David Sims?

  Do you tell them white?

• 2:49:58Griffin Newman?

  It depends on the place. It depends on the place and depends on how fresh the bagels are. I walk in, I do a sniff test. I hold my hands up. I see what kind of heat is rating off of the bagel baskets. And then I lick my finger. I hold it up to the wind and I go, four 25 90 seconds.

• 2:50:15Speaker 02

  Didn't you grow up by Murray's?

• 2:50:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, Murray's is a great example of a place where you don't, they have a no toasting rule. And with them, it's not necessary.

• 2:50:23Speaker 02

  Well, that, that

• 2:50:24Griffin Newman?

  Cause they do their job well.

• 2:50:25Speaker 02

  That was like, okay, the NY Greenwich Village, the bagel spot. So I go to NYU. It's like, oh, New York bagels. And that's where I'm like, oh, I could never ask for my bagel to be toasted.

• 2:50:33Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely. But when I walk into Murray's, I'm not like, oh God, I hate they won't let me toast it. I'm like, yeah, no toasting necessary. But some

• 2:50:42Speaker 02

  If it's a bad bagel, yeah, if I ever eat like a bagel outside of New York City, sure, I'll get it toasted. Cause I don't know where that's fucking coming from.

• 2:50:48Griffin Newman?

  Bagels in New York, depends on the place. Look, this has been our episode in 28. Years later, a movie about bagels and toasting preference in a way.

• 2:50:58David Sims?

  And it's so important. Wow. We went long. Okay.

• 2:51:01Griffin Newman?

  Which is great.

• 2:51:02Speaker 02

  There's so much to talk about.

• 2:51:03David Sims?

  Oh, I'm not mad. I'm just like

• 2:51:04Griffin Newman?

  It's a big movie.

• 2:51:05David Sims?

  Big episode. Yeah.

• 2:51:06Griffin Newman?

  It's exciting.

• 2:51:06David Sims?

  Yeah. Uh, yeah. I hope it does well. I want more.

• 2:51:11Griffin Newman?

  But as we said, they're, they're saying that the all in cost on this one was 60 something. And I think they saved money by shooting one and two back to back. It was like a straight through production.

• 2:51:21David Sims?

  The new one has a different cast, I imagine.

• 2:51:23Speaker 02

  The bones probably weren't that expensive.

• 2:51:25Griffin Newman?

  Well, they've been cagey, right? I think, cause they were hiding the kid in general, but it seems like Rafe is not in the next one.

• 2:51:31David Sims?

  I think it's like the kids in it for sure. I think Aaron

• 2:51:33Griffin Newman?

  Aaron Taylor Johnson is

• 2:51:34David Sims?

  In some capacity.

• 2:51:35Griffin Newman?

  Obviously, Jack O'Connell has a much bigger part, which is why his billing is so high in this one. Yeah.

• 2:51:40David Sims?

  And he's a name of sorts.

• 2:51:42Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Well, he's having a great comeback.

• 2:51:44Speaker 02

  Before we sign off, I just want to wish our, our, our dear Ben a very happy birthday.

• 2:51:49Griffin Newman?

  It's about to be birthday, Benny.

• 2:51:50Speaker 03

  Yep. Next week.

• 2:51:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. And of course, for the record, he is turning 25.

• 2:51:56David Sims?

  That's right.

• 2:51:57Speaker 02

  Forever 25.

• 2:51:58David Sims?

  He's, no, he's turning 28 in honor of this movie.

• 2:52:00Griffin Newman?

  That is what's nice about that.

• 2:52:02Speaker 03

  And I, I feel really good about it and I'm just excited for the future.

• 2:52:07Griffin Newman?

  I don't want to call my shop, but I got a great present coming for you. My love language is gifts and I really, I think, I will say you'll, you'll know it when you'll see it. And we'll post it on social media because I think it does need to be shared. But it was in conjunction with a friend of the show who was like, you know, what's a good idea? And I was like, yes, let's make this happen together.

• 2:52:25David Sims?

  Interesting.

• 2:52:25Speaker 02

  I can't wait to find out what this is.

• 2:52:27David Sims?

  And then, you know, of course, uh, I'm gonna have a barbecue.

• 2:52:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:52:31David Sims?

  On the roof coming up and I wonder if someone might make an appearance.

• 2:52:35Griffin Newman?

  This isn't a workday for me.

• 2:52:37David Sims?

  Right, exactly. You know, you want a big wall between work and play.

• 2:52:41Griffin Newman?

  I don't walk into someone else's office and try to do their paperwork.

• 2:52:44David Sims?

  You know, knock the dick out of my mouth and tell me.

• 2:52:47Griffin Newman?

  My favorite joke.

• 2:52:48David Sims?

  It's so funny.

• 2:52:50Griffin Newman?

  I don't go to where you're sleeping and knock the dick out of your mouth.

• 2:52:52Speaker 02

  Uh, do you have something special prepared?

• 2:52:55Griffin Newman?

  For Ben or for the barbecue?

• 2:52:57Speaker 02

  For the, for Ben's barbecue.

• 2:52:58David Sims?

  I do think.

• 2:52:59Griffin Newman?

  I don't want to make that day about me.

• 2:53:02David Sims?

  The best way to complete this bit would be for you to become an expert smoker of meats.

• 2:53:07Griffin Newman?

  Well, I have a great news.

• 2:53:08Speaker 02

  Get you on.

• 2:53:08Griffin Newman?

  Great news update for you.

• 2:53:09David Sims?

  I'm just saying like.

• 2:53:10Griffin Newman?

  That bit was completed a decade ago.

• 2:53:12David Sims?

  I know, but imagine like, I don't know how, some event, some podcast event where you successfully like, you know, smoked 10 pounds of brisket.

• 2:53:23Griffin Newman?

  What is this weird framing of like a, a future hypothetical?

• 2:53:26Speaker 02

  Do they sell like a little smoker at the Target? I'm just gonna buy one for the party and then we'll set it up.

• 2:53:32Griffin Newman?

  Really limit the range of flavors on those guys. That's the thing.

• 2:53:34David Sims?

  Yeah, I imagine some disposable, it's probably not gonna be.

• 2:53:37Griffin Newman?

  You're not getting the full bouquet of the taste of the wood.

• 2:53:41Speaker 02

  From a social media perspective, I feel like, like that might get us more likes than merit.

• 2:53:45Griffin Newman?

  Sort of like, is that me like fucking posting and bragging about the fact that I watched a movie for the podcast on my phone? Do you know what I'm saying? Like, that's not the culture we're trying to present here. You know, I've been fucking around with a lot lately is teak.

• 2:53:56David Sims?

  Oh, yeah? You getting that teak on there?

• 2:54:00Griffin Newman?

  I haven't cracked it yet, but I, it's interesting.

• 2:54:05Griffin Newman?

  Thank you all for listening. Next week, we return to and finish out our Amy Heckerling mini-series, Pod Times, the Richmond cast with the final two films to date in her filmography.

• 2:54:15David Sims?

  Just reading here that apparently teak, you know, vapors have a strong narcotic effects on the central nervous.

• 2:54:22Griffin Newman?

  I said I haven't cracked it yet. I told you I haven't cracked it yet. And I might not, by the way.

• 2:54:28David Sims?

  But I'm not saying that. I don't think that makes it fully illegal, but I think it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, yeah.

• 2:54:33Griffin Newman?

  I gotta figure out how to harness it. And by the way, if I don't, I'll walk away. It's not ready for public consumption yet, but I just, it's been interesting. It's been interesting. It's been, it's been a fruitful spring of experimentation for me, which is fine, because I usually tend to lean on the fruit woods. Next week, I Could Never Be Your Woman, one of the most normal movies we have ever covered in the history of this podcast.

• 2:54:55Speaker 02

  Is this one that I?

• 2:54:56David Sims?

  You just gotta close your eyes and think hard.

• 2:54:58Griffin Newman?

  I imported a Dutch Blu-ray.

• 2:55:01David Sims?

  You can rent it on.

• 2:55:02Griffin Newman?

  It is on like Tubi, Pluto, all.

• 2:55:05David Sims?

  I think I might have watched it on like Peacock.

• 2:55:08Griffin Newman?

  Might be on the Roku channel. It's actually weirdly prevalent.

• 2:55:11David Sims?

  Are you willing to give Marie your copy, or is it something?

• 2:55:13Speaker 02

  I don't have an all-region player. I know, which is like really embarrassing.

• 2:55:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, and that's a shame, because the transfer on this one is really bad.

• 2:55:22David Sims?

  They worked really hard on that. They pressed a button and went to lunch.

• 2:55:26Griffin Newman?

  Right. To mirror the, the vaseline rubbed on the lens in the filming of the movie, they rubbed vaseline all over the bottom of the disc.

• 2:55:33Speaker 02

  Greasy.

• 2:55:34Griffin Newman?

  Next week, I Could Never Be Your Woman, with the great Karen Shi returning to the show.

• 2:55:38David Sims?

  Yep, wonderful.

• 2:55:38Speaker 02

  She's so funny.

• 2:55:39Griffin Newman?

  It's just the funniest. It's a funny episode about a movie that is funny?

• 2:55:44David Sims?

  I guess.

• 2:55:46Griffin Newman?

  Thank you all for listening. And as always.

• 2:55:49Speaker 02

  That's my rage noise.

• 2:55:51Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna say, this zombie has the biggest dick I've ever seen in my life.

• 2:56:01Speaker 03

  Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hostly. Our creative producer is Marie Bardis Salinas, and our associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by JJ Birch. Our theme song is by Lain Montgomery and the Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Holly Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes.

• 2:56:45Speaker 03

  Follow us on social @BlankCheckPod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook, on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.