Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade with Chris Gethard

What if Indiana Jones had a dad who was a “grail scholar" but also his “eskimo brother" and he was played by James Bond and he had a funny little hat? We are so glad Steven Spielberg dared to imagine this scenario because we got Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade out of it! Chris Gethard - The self-proclaimed “Bad Boy of Blank Check Guests” - joins the crew to talk about this delightful film, considered a fulcrum point in Spielberg’s career where he switches perspectives from son to father. We’re talking about daddy issues. We’re asking if Kazim is the Kit Fisto of this film. We’re wondering if Elsa looking hottest when dressed as a Nazi is a weird psychosexual thing Spielberg is exploring. We’re realizing in real time that Indiana Jones might be a terrible archeologist. Basically - you should hand in your blimp tickets and join us on a very fun ride. Listen to Gethard's Special A Father and the Sun https://www.audible.com/pd/A-Father-and-the-Sun-Audiobook/B0CHXLCJTJ Listen To Beautiful Anonymous https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beautiful-stories-from-anonymous-people/id1090147504 Checkout That Show monthly at UCB NY LIVE and LIVE STREAMED https://ucbcomedy.com/show/that-show-hosted-by-chris-gethard-3/ Sign up for Check Book https://blankcheckpod.substack.com/welcome, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. http://www.patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter https://x.com/blankcheckpod?lang=en, Instagram https://www.instagram.com/blankcheckpod/?hl=en, Threads https://www.threads.net/@blankcheckpod?xmt=AQGzctAh4mbWTwYzCV1pzNT6AMV9o99EOfymi8TLR5mTde0 and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/blankcheckpodcast/! Buy some real nerdy merch https://kinshipgoods.com/blankcheck Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/blankies/s/gpcOkQr8Sv or Discord https://discord.gg/Q6YGSR3JrA For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com https://www.blankcheckpod.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 0:03David Sims?

  Yep.

• 0:03Griffin Newman?

  We did a live show.

• 0:04David Sims?

  Yeah, remember?

• 0:05Griffin Newman?

  Ranking Scorsese at the Bell House in Brooklyn. We did the definitive power ranking of Martin Scorsese things.

• 0:12David Sims?

  Uh, it was so fun. Uh, it was very silly.

• 0:15Griffin Newman?

  Ben and Marie were with us and they're with us right now.

• 0:18David Sims?

  Yeah, hey.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Hey, everyone, or should I say, oh?

• 0:20David Sims?

  Oh.

• 0:22Griffin Newman?

  And thanks to our friends at Dynasty Typewriter. It was livestreamed for the first time ever. But also, the replay is still up there, but only until October 30th.

• 0:31Speaker 02

  So just a few more days.

• 0:33David Sims?

  Yes.

• 0:33Speaker 02

  You can get it at dynasty.tv.

• 0:36David Sims?

  Dynasty.tv.

• 0:37Speaker 02

  It's $20. We had a blast and the Spreadmaster really got to work.

• 0:43David Sims?

  Oh, yeah. I was moving things around.

• 0:45Griffin Newman?

  Laptop was on.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  I don't know if I'd have seen you that happy.

• 0:48Griffin Newman?

  You were thrilled. You were like a pick and share.

• 0:50David Sims?

  I was locked in.

• 0:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, very locked in and you were funny.

• 0:53David Sims?

  Thank you. You were funny. You were also funny.

• 0:56Griffin Newman?

  Oh, thank you.

• 0:57David Sims?

  And if you want to see like, you know, Griffin's shine box on camera, it's the only way to see it.

• 1:02Griffin Newman?

  You might see me shine Marie's shoes.

• 1:04David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you're into that sort of content.

• 1:07Griffin Newman?

  If that gets you off.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Okay. So once again, that's at dynasty.tv.

• 1:39David Sims?

  You have podcasted poorly. That's good.

• 1:43Griffin Newman?

  Right?

• 1:44David Sims?

  I, I do want to just, I want to highlight two interesting taglines for this movie.

• 1:51David Sims?

  One I really like, one I think is really stupid.

• 1:54Griffin Newman?

  Is Adventure still has a name or was that for last?

• 1:57David Sims?

  I think that's the second one. So the first one is terrible, in my opinion. So bad, so funny that they did this. And this is the teaser poster that's just Indy. Uh, holding his whip. The man with the hat is back.

• 2:10Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:10David Sims?

  And this time he's bringing his dad.

• 2:12Griffin Newman?

  I remember.

• 2:13David Sims?

  It just sounds like a Macaulay Culkin movie. It just sounds so stupid.

• 2:17Griffin Newman?

  I remember the man with the hat is back and I had flipped in my mind that that was for Temple and that.

• 2:22David Sims?

  The man with the hat, Chris, the man with the hat is back. Look at this.

• 2:25Griffin Newman?

  The man with the hat is back.

• 2:27David Sims?

  And this time he's bringing his dad. Like, I'm like, what do I care if he, like, that's exciting? His dad? Like, it's not inherently good news.

• 2:34Griffin Newman?

  First half, man with the hat is back.

• 2:36David Sims?

  That's fine. It's a little.

• 2:37Griffin Newman?

  Iconic hat.

• 2:38David Sims?

  And he's more than a hat.

• 2:40Griffin Newman?

  He's bringing his dad.

• 2:41Speaker 03

  He has a man with a hat.

• 2:43David Sims?

  He was recently on Connections, NYT Connections, uh, things Indiana Jones like is associated with. And it was like, hat, whip, bomber jacket. There was a fourth thing. Anyway, the other tagline.

• 2:55Griffin Newman?

  I just want to say, I want to say about that poster.

• 2:57David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:57Griffin Newman?

  Beautiful Drew Struzan painting.

• 2:59David Sims?

  Really nice painting, although I also think I prefer the, the main poster painting.

• 3:05Griffin Newman?

  Oh, well, that one's incredible.

• 3:06David Sims?

  Cause it's so like, nice looking.

• 3:07Griffin Newman?

  But you said like, oh, it's that tagline in Indy with the whip. You should make it clear that painting is like, that poster is like a Drew Struzan painting of Indiana Jones at like a Kmart photo studio. It is like a high school, like.

• 3:20David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 3:21Griffin Newman?

  Head and shoulders, turning to the camera, three quarter profile.

• 3:25David Sims?

  I think they settled on a really nice tagline for the main poster, which is have the adventure of your life keeping up with the Joneses. I think that's a clever way to do the family thing.

• 3:34Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 3:34David Sims?

  That's all.

• 3:35Griffin Newman?

  Here's what I'd say. This movie kind of needs no tagline. You just like, put the poster out and you're like, here it is. The third Indiana Jones movie and Sean Connery is his dad.

• 3:44David Sims?

  But that's why I think they're, they're saying the dad thing. Cause they're like, dad, you know, like they, they want you to know about the dad.

• 3:49Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 3:50David Sims?

  It's not just like a third Indiana Jones movie, which would probably be enough. Just like Indiana Jones, he's here.

• 3:55Speaker 03

  It is a little bit sad that they didn't come up with Keeping Up With The Joneses first.

• 3:59David Sims?

  I think Keeping Up With The Joneses is just really clever.

• 4:01Speaker 03

  That was the second swing though. You know, that shouldn't have been.

• 4:04Griffin Newman?

  No. Not only is it the second swing, but it's also like the second beat of the second swing.

• 4:10David Sims?

  Uh, and here's a, a cool Japanese poster, which has River Phoenix on it. That's pretty cool.

• 4:17Griffin Newman?

  I think River Phoenix is so fucking good in this movie. And I love that sequence so fucking much. Well, we'll get right into it because it's the first sequence in the movie. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna get ahead of this, right? This is my favorite Indiana Jones movies. I've said it in other episodes. It, I know it is objectively not the best. I know that Raiders does basically everything this movie does better. They are so similar. And like similarly, I'm like, I can't argue that it's better than the opening fertility idol sequence of Raiders. But the River Phoenix sequence is my favorite Indiana Jones sequence, which is absurd to say when it doesn't have Harrison Ford in it. That is absurd. That's, that's borderline absurd. Not saying it's the best. Not saying it's the best.

• 5:02Griffin Newman?

  I have so much fun watching it.

• 5:04Speaker 03

  It's really great.

• 5:05Griffin Newman?

  It's really great. It is really great.

• 5:06Speaker 03

  Last True State is my favorite, but it also, I've, I have really been thinking hard and I know, I don't know if I'm supposed to jump in yet. I never know. I've never known.

• 5:14Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely.

• 5:15Speaker 03

  I did, this was, I did briefly have to think, I thought, I was like, was this the first movie my dad ever took me to see in a theater?

• 5:24Griffin Newman?

  1989, how old would you have been?

• 5:26Speaker 03

  I was nine. But I realized it wasn't.

• 5:29Griffin Newman?

  Right, it feels a little old for you.

• 5:30Speaker 03

  Some of the first movies, I actually, it made me research the first movies I ever saw in the theater. And the first movie I believe I saw in the theater is actually really, really, to me, quite funny. Which was that I started breaking down the earliest movies I remember. It was like this, and American Tale, Home Alone, and Batman.

• 5:49Griffin Newman?

  Right, but these are all 89, 90, 91, like that era.

• 5:52Speaker 03

  Then there was an early outlier, which is that my dad clearly had no one to go with and did bring me to see Star Trek IV.

• 6:01Griffin Newman?

  Hell, theater. That's a great movie.

• 6:03Speaker 03

  But for a six-year-old?

• 6:04Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 6:05Speaker 03

  For a six, for a six-year-old's first experience in the movie is the fourth sequel?

• 6:10Griffin Newman?

  Sure, story-wise, but you know what? It's fun because it's like they're in, they're out of Fish Out of Water and there's the whales. It's a pretty gentle movie. It is maybe the Star Trek movie that is most accessible to a six-year-old with zero context, which is like space people in modern day San Francisco. Usco being confused by like cabs and shit and then giant flying.

• 6:30Speaker 03

  It does have like almost police academy.

• 6:32Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 6:33Speaker 03

  It does.

• 6:33Griffin Newman?

  And it's a really.

• 6:34Speaker 03

  And animals.

• 6:35David Sims?

  A really well executed version of that, too. It's like.

• 6:38Speaker 03

  I would, I do, I will say though, all of these things, I love your defense of it. I have a feeling that if I sat my father down and said, why is the first movie I ever saw in the theater Star Trek four?

• 6:49Griffin Newman?

  He'd be like, your mom didn't want to go.

• 6:51Speaker 03

  It was that or me sitting by myself in a way that would have made me sad.

• 6:55David Sims?

  Right, right. Do you remember liking it?

• 6:57Speaker 03

  I remember liking the experience of seeing a movie, but Indiana Jones, the part of why I felt like Last Crusade might have been the first movie I ever saw was. I was like, I do have those sense memories and I'm so glad to get to talk about them here where I'm like. This is perhaps the movie more than Raiders for me because of the theater experience. Like this is the movie that makes me feel how you want movies to make you feel.

• 7:22Griffin Newman?

  This is my thing with it. I'm like, I know Raiders is better and I watch Raiders more because I'm like, I want to study this. It is such a miracle of like construction and craft. And yet I just have so much fun watching this and I'm like, this is a perfect example of like what I want out of just like. Fun, well made popcorn, well performed.

• 7:43David Sims?

  I like this movie a lot. Chris, though, you had some thought, I feel like you were completing. I can't, maybe not.

• 7:48Speaker 03

  Just the idea of like, this will always be my favorite Indiana Jones because I saw it in the theater. I also have such a, I'm 95% certain it was attached to this movie that. Cause this was 1989. I started reading comic books around 1987, 88. And I have a very distinct memory that someone might correct me, Lord knows your fans will be the first ones to tell me if I'm right or wrong.

• 8:11Griffin Newman?

  No idea what you're talking about.

• 8:12David Sims?

  Our sweetie pie fans.

• 8:13Speaker 03

  I love your fans. I love them and it's also.

• 8:15Griffin Newman?

  Finely.

• 8:15Speaker 03

  I also want to say it's nice too, because a lot of other times I've been on, there's been natural segues into Star Wars stuff and I get, I know your fans sometimes think I talk about Star Wars too much, but I don't really see too many connections between this movie and Star Wars.

• 8:26David Sims?

  George Lucas produced film, the Indiana Jones.

• 8:28Speaker 03

  No, like, so this one, I feel like we just keep it separate.

• 8:30Griffin Newman?

  This is just, it's a streamlined episode.

• 8:33David Sims?

  As the offspring told us.

• 8:34Speaker 03

  So they have the same start.

• 8:35David Sims?

  Keep them separated.

• 8:36Speaker 03

  Colonel Veer's stunning performance as Walter Donovan in this.

• 8:40David Sims?

  I love that guy.

• 8:41Speaker 03

  But I do remember seeing a trailer for the Cap, the Matt Salinger Captain America that I think was before this movie.

• 8:48David Sims?

  That lines up because.

• 8:49Griffin Newman?

  I've heard a lot of people talk about that.

• 8:51David Sims?

  That's a 1990 film, so that would have been appropriate.

• 8:55Speaker 03

  The Captain America shield came up and a few nerds in the theater flipped out, but this was an era in my life where I'd been reading comics for two years in isolation.

• 9:04David Sims?

  And so you were like, oh, there are others like me.

• 9:07Speaker 03

  I'm in a room with people who, who like being.

• 9:11David Sims?

  Yeah, although I feel like that was like a nadir for comic book Captain America, like late eighties, he was very uncool. X-Men had become so cool.

• 9:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:20David Sims?

  Like the Avengers were kind of not that cool.

• 9:22Griffin Newman?

  Is that like Nomad era or is Nomad about to happen?

• 9:24David Sims?

  It's probably around there. Nomad might be earlier.

• 9:26Speaker 03

  We are in the very fascinating 10 year plus run by Mark Grunwald, which I've made, it, which has the best Captain America's ever been, and also some of the most inexplicably atrociously bad writing you've ever seen in a comic book.

• 9:39David Sims?

  I should do a deeper, I've never really read Cap in like a sort of thoughtful way.

• 9:44Griffin Newman?

  Well, cause you're not a patriot.

• 9:46David Sims?

  Right. I just am not a patriot. I'm no, it's cause I'm a US agent guy, actually. I just love that guy.

• 9:51Speaker 03

  When you dive into the Mark Grunwald run of Captain America, you know who to text if you need to have a really like the conversation about it.

• 9:58David Sims?

  He's, yeah, it's funny. Like he, he's not someone like his rogues gallery. I'm not that familiar. Yeah, I don't know. I loved, obviously when Captain America got cool again, when he had Brubaker did him, right? When suddenly it was like, whoa, Captain America's like dark spy stuff. And this is so cool. I loved all that.

• 10:15Griffin Newman?

  I feel like I've heard a lot of folks of your generation talk about that experience of the Captain America trailer being pretty widely attached to Last Crusade in the same summer that Burton's Batman has just come out and feeling like, oh shit, it's all happening. Like if you've just seen Batman work. And you see the Captain America teaser that's the shield. You have to think like, holy shit, they're all gonna happen now. Every year, they're gonna make all of them, they're all gonna work with the public. And then it's like Captain America comes out, is like muddled with, is a nothing movie, disappears. Batman basically becomes the only superhero that works until the 2000s.

• 10:52Speaker 03

  We're also people, I think some people, younger people sometimes forget, we are also now not again, I don't want to dwell on it, but we're also now far enough away from Return of the Jedi that liking Star Wars is getting decidedly lame.

• 11:06David Sims?

  Star Wars has become like cheesy kid shit.

• 11:09Speaker 03

  Before the re-releases of the original trilogy.

• 11:12David Sims?

  No, for sure.

• 11:12Speaker 03

  Actually, before the toys got cool again.

• 11:14David Sims?

  It's in its weird kind of swampy.

• 11:16Griffin Newman?

  I love what you're fucking setting up.

• 11:17David Sims?

  Right, like.

• 11:18Griffin Newman?

  I was gonna correct you on the toys thing and the fact that you fucking got to it.

• 11:22Speaker 03

  The toys got cool, the re-releases happened, Star Wars got cool again. But we are in a stretch where liking, like wearing an X, like I liked the X-Men by this point. I would never wear an X-Men t-shirt to school.

• 11:34David Sims?

  When I say the X-Men were cool, I mean, they were cool in the sense of like they had become Marvel's biggest star. But obviously comic books remain.

• 11:41Griffin Newman?

  They were the coolest thing within comic books.

• 11:42Speaker 03

  And we're again, to tie into the culture too, let's not also forget, Griffin, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is in the process of about to explode, like nerd shit is about to hit and this movie.

• 11:52David Sims?

  But it's got its own little quadrant, right? Like it's not like now where it's the main thing in culture. But yes, this movie.

• 11:59Speaker 03

  This movie made you feel good about being an unabashed fan.

• 12:03David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 12:04Speaker 03

  For the first time in my, that, that cycle has always spun, but in my life cycle, being in that theater, hearing those people flip out, being there with my dad. I'm like, man, it's just the movie that probably more than any other imprinted in me, the feeling of like, I want to sit here, I want to eat popcorn, I want it to be dark, I want everybody to be quiet.

• 12:24Griffin Newman?

  I also feel like. Generations of people molded by Spielberg, giving you that beautiful feeling. 89 is a year that for better or worse, starts to feel like. The year that sets Hollywood on the course to where it is today. Like you look at the 89 blockbusters and you're like, this is a good slate, but also

• 12:43David Sims?

  Batman.

• 12:43Griffin Newman?

  The studios kind of become obsessed with chasing this lineup.

• 12:46Speaker 03

  They start chasing Dick Tracy almost immediately.

• 12:49Griffin Newman?

  Right, but it's like.

• 12:50David Sims?

  Disney Renaissance.

• 12:51Griffin Newman?

  Cause last, I believe Last Crusade, Batman and Ghostbusters 2 all break opening weekend records. It's like the record gets broken like three times in one summer.

• 13:02David Sims?

  You've brought this up many, many times.

• 13:03Speaker 03

  Next thing you know, everyone's having panic attacks in San Diego.

• 13:08David Sims?

  Wait, I don't get it.

• 13:09Speaker 03

  Comic Con, Comic Con culture.

• 13:10Griffin Newman?

  Oh, sure, sure.

• 13:11Speaker 03

  This might be the snowball down the hill that leads to Comic Con culture.

• 13:15Griffin Newman?

  I think it all kind of.

• 13:16David Sims?

  You are not wrong.

• 13:17Speaker 03

  Next thing you know.

• 13:18David Sims?

  Beverly Hills Cop.

• 13:19Speaker 03

  You're on the subway with someone just head to toe.

• 13:21David Sims?

  I now have it. I can now restore. You always say this and then I just, I'm always like, I can't tell how to look this up, but here are the opening weekend records. It was held by Beverly Hills Cop 2 with $26 million opening weekend in 1987. Last Crusade beats that with a 29. Ghostbusters 2 then beats that with like 29.4, you know, like slightly higher.

• 13:42Griffin Newman?

  And then Batman does.

• 13:42David Sims?

  And then Batman crushes that at the end of the year in 1999 with $40 million, which is then beaten by Batman Returns.

• 13:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. So it holds for like three years.

• 13:52David Sims?

  Yep. And then Jurassic Park, Batman Forever beats Jurassic Park. People forget. 52 mil. And then Lost World beats Batman Forever. What do you think beat Lost World? People kind of forget about this because Spider-Man becomes the famous, the first movie to open over a hundred million dollars.

• 14:09Griffin Newman?

  Is it Sorcerer's Stone?

• 14:10David Sims?

  Harry Potter. Yeah.

• 14:11Griffin Newman?

  Right. Cause I remember people being like, is Harry Potter going to be the first movie with a hundred million dollar weekend?

• 14:16David Sims?

  A little below.

• 14:17Griffin Newman?

  And it made like 94, 90. And people were like, you know what? I guess it's just mathematically impossible. There was no way to have that many showtimes, that many screens.

• 14:26David Sims?

  Right.

• 14:26Griffin Newman?

  And then the following year, not even like six months later, Spider-Man does 114. And people were like, holy shit. Impossible. And then you get to like a decade plus later, Avengers Endgame does like 114 opening day?

• 14:41David Sims?

  No, Avenger, oh, oh, Endgame did. Yeah, yeah, sure. It did 357. I wonder if that'll ever be beaten. I guess it will one day. But this movie did break the record, like you say, Griffin, and it does. It is a year of sequels and comic books and also like The Little Mermaid. So like that, you know, that element rising again, the cartoon, you know, movies.

• 15:01Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's, it's a year of like, right, it's, this is what we want the industry to be.

• 15:07David Sims?

  But you also have Look Who's Talking, Dead Poets Society. You have

• 15:11Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 15:12David Sims?

  non-franchisees things. Like you have a big comedy. You have a big adult.

• 15:16Griffin Newman?

  One of those becomes a franchise. Yeah.

• 15:19David Sims?

  Dead Poets Society. Two, two, two Dead, two poets.

• 15:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 15:23David Sims?

  Dead Poets Society, Tokyo Drift. You know, we can keep, anyway.

• 15:27Griffin Newman?

  Look, this is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

• 15:29David Sims?

  David.

• 15:30Griffin Newman?

  It's a podcast about filmography. It's directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion products they want. And sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce, baby. This is a mini-series on the films of Steven Spielberg, first half of his career. And we're talking today about Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. His third of four Indiana Jones movies.

• 15:53David Sims?

  That he directed. Yep.

• 15:54Griffin Newman?

  That he directed.

• 15:55David Sims?

  Yep.

• 15:55Griffin Newman?

  His third of his four.

• 15:57David Sims?

  For many years, the fairly satisfying conclusion to the Indiana Jones series and now the, the middle entry in the Indiana Jones series.

• 16:06Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 16:06David Sims?

  Technically.

• 16:07Griffin Newman?

  It is weird to be like, that is, this is now the exact midpoint. And it's another thing where like, you talk about that Star Wars dead zone. And I know that was a little before David and I's time, but I've dug into it a lot. Because I do think it's a fascinating thing that's basically been culturally forgotten. Which is that like Star Wars just kind of goes away for 10 years.

• 16:25David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 16:25Griffin Newman?

  And is like a thing.

• 16:26Speaker 03

  It was dead on the vine.

• 16:27Griffin Newman?

  Right. It's like hardcore norons are keeping it alive at a very low burn in a way that like.

• 16:32David Sims?

  Books and the toys.

• 16:33Speaker 03

  Well, everyone loves those Timothy Zahn books now. The Grand Admiral Thaw and shit. And it's coming back in the, in the

• 16:38David Sims?

  Right.

• 16:38Speaker 03

  Filoni verse.

• 16:39Griffin Newman?

  But it was a little.

• 16:39Speaker 03

  If you were reading those Timothy Zahn books.

• 16:41David Sims?

  Yes.

• 16:42Speaker 03

  You would adore.

• 16:42Griffin Newman?

  You were a loser. Because I would equate it to the period between original Star Trek and Canceled in the Movies, right? Where you're like, there's a small fervent group of people who are digging into the shit.

• 16:53David Sims?

  But that period is shorter and that period is like, it's like, those people were cultivating a cult show. They were like, we need to keep this cult show that didn't get that many viewers alive. Star Wars, it's like, these were the biggest movies in the world. They're just done. But the fans are like, well, we want more. So we'll just sort of write, we'll read some books and we'll, but like, it was like. You know, Star Wars fandom was wide and thin and Star Trek fandom was like more concentrated and small.

• 17:19Griffin Newman?

  But the other part of it is that like, you know, Lucas very early on was like, I'm gonna do nine.

• 17:25David Sims?

  Right.

• 17:25Griffin Newman?

  And then after Return of the Jedi, people were like, that's not fucking happening. And he so quickly does the two Ewok movies and is like, and I'm doing two cartoon shows. And droids and Ewoks and the Ewok movies all kind of don't really hit in the way I think he hoped like.

• 17:39Speaker 03

  And we try, as someone who was alive then, like the Ewok movies, you tried. We watched them.

• 17:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 17:44Speaker 03

  We were ready.

• 17:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 17:45Speaker 03

  We were confused.

• 17:46Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 17:47Speaker 03

  We knew what they were.

• 17:48David Sims?

  Only fair that you were confused.

• 17:49Speaker 03

  To give you a sense, like, and this will age me, everyone will know that I am truly an exennial. That this, this micro generation, the.

• 17:57Griffin Newman?

  Yep.

• 17:57David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 17:58Speaker 03

  The Oregon Trail generation, as some of the, we're called the exennials. We had Apple 2Es with Oregon Trail in our classrooms. Here's what it meant to be a Star Wars fan then, is that I was on a pre-worldwide web internet where you would dial in from your computer to individual BBSs. And when I tell you there was one that I found in Whippany, New Jersey, that had an archive of Star Wars fan art that you could spend hours downloading on your 2400. It would take a 2400k modem, but like, oh, someone drew a picture of an AT-AT walker and you can dial this BBS and download it because someone's making fan art. Like, the level of loserdom that I just described, that I actively participated in

• 18:42Speaker 03

  and was that kid of like, I like Star Wars, so I have a floppy disk of fan art that I'm downloading from a BBS in Whippany, New Jersey. Like, that's where we were at. This idea that, that, that every store was going to be stocked with lightsabers, that there would be an entire theme park to go get lost in the immersive experience of this. No, you're using your computer to sit for hours communicating with another computer in Whippany, New Jersey. That's what you have to do.

• 19:12Griffin Newman?

  You have talked to me about. And not said with sadness, just kind of an objective reality that when you were starting out at the UCB Theater, you were like, the cheat code is if you make a Star Wars reference, everyone in the theater will laugh.

• 19:26Speaker 03

  Especially when you were on the road doing college shows.

• 19:28Griffin Newman?

  Cause you're just like, the people who come to improv shows are the exact people who have this knowledge base in their head and they don't hear other people say it out loud. And you even look at early Conan O'Brien and there's a similar thing of them making jokes about deep cut Star Wars characters, which is like, they know their audience. They're gonna pop if they hear Lobot or Bosc, right? And you're like, now if you say that, people are like, yeah, Bosc is at Walmart.

• 19:52Speaker 03

  Everybody, my kid knows who Bosc is.

• 19:54Griffin Newman?

  Everyone knows who Bosc is.

• 19:55Speaker 03

  My five-year-old son is a Bosc.

• 19:56Griffin Newman?

  Well, your kid's gonna know about Bosc.

• 19:58Speaker 03

  I actively, also, I just wanna say, I did not come here to talk about Star Wars.

• 20:02Griffin Newman?

  No, of course not. We're not talking about it.

• 20:03Speaker 03

  I had, I had a real firm intent to not dwell too much on Star Wars.

• 20:08Griffin Newman?

  Great.

• 20:08Speaker 03

  So just understand that this is a cultural discussion about the impact of 1989, that I did not lead, everybody.

• 20:14David Sims?

  Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. When you're seeing this in theaters, Chris.

• 20:19Speaker 03

  Let's say our guest today.

• 20:20David Sims?

  Oh, sorry. Go ahead. I didn't realize we didn't introduce him.

• 20:23Speaker 03

  These blankies know who the fuck I am. I'm the bad boy of blank check.

• 20:27David Sims?

  They forgot about Chris.

• 20:28Speaker 03

  The bad boy of blank check.

• 20:31Griffin Newman?

  This is def blank check jam.

• 20:34Speaker 03

  Hamburger.

• 20:35David Sims?

  I am scared of you motherfuckers.

• 20:38Speaker 03

  I just did a show with Hamburger.

• 20:40Griffin Newman?

  Really?

• 20:40Speaker 03

  A month ago, I did a show with the real Alonso Hamburger Jones.

• 20:43Griffin Newman?

  Holy shit.

• 20:44Speaker 03

  In New Jersey, I got a text from a club booker that was like, hey, if you're free tonight, we're just doing a show, a bunch of people dropping in. Hamburger's gonna be here. I was like, in the car before I could even hit reply.

• 20:55Griffin Newman?

  This is incredible. How did he do?

• 20:57Speaker 03

  Cause the whole thing.

• 20:58Griffin Newman?

  Rush, of course.

• 20:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, on a fucking cowboy hat and he said the word hamburger 45 times in a 10-minute set.

• 21:05David Sims?

  Right. It's like Hanson, I'm like, they better play mm-bop. They play mm-bop, I'm like, I got what I wanted. Like, the whole thing is he says hamburger instead of swear words.

• 21:12Speaker 03

  Instead of swear words, but it's almost become like an OCD compulsion. Like, he'll hit a punchline and then in between the setup is next joke, he'll be like, and here's the punchline in the rhythm, hamburger. And here's the setup for the next one, hamburger.

• 21:24Griffin Newman?

  Curse words and now it's become like the smurf saying smurf.

• 21:27Speaker 03

  It's yeah, it's wild though, but he also was, I'm not making fun of him. Hamburger was fucking great. He's been doing it forever, but it was also fun because it was a bunch of very young New Jersey comics in the green room. And hamburger who predates me by many, many years, but then I walked in and was like, everyone's just sitting quietly, not talking to hamburger. I'm going to sit down and ask hamburger some questions and then the whole room. Gathered up and showed their respect and listened to the stories of Alonso hamburger Jones.

• 21:54Griffin Newman?

  That fucking rules.

• 21:55Speaker 03

  Hamburger.

• 21:56Griffin Newman?

  Uh, Chris Gethard.

• 21:57Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 21:58Griffin Newman?

  You did our live show last year for the ninth anniversary.

• 22:01Speaker 03

  I think that was the last my presence has been felt on blank check.

• 22:04Griffin Newman?

  This is true, and you made a bit about you guys are afraid to have me back on. Which you always think you'll make the joke publicly and then you'll text me and you'll be like, I get it if you guys don't want the heat. I don't take it personally.

• 22:14Speaker 03

  Fifth episode.

• 22:15Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 22:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:16Griffin Newman?

  Now, it is kind of crazy that it's been five spread out over 10 years, but I also think you're a high impact guest. We want the right pairing. You text me four times a year and you were haranguing us about this right before the record. When are you guys doing Karasawa? When are you doing Akiru? That's the episode I want. You walked in here today and you went, you guys call yourself a movie podcast. Isn't this supposed to be a movie podcast?

• 22:38Speaker 03

  No, because I'll pull back the curtain, edit it out if you have to. I said, when are you guys doing Karasawa? David Sims's response was, that's just so many movies. And I went. Is this not a movie podcast? Funny rejoinder. Is that, is that not the goal? It would take half a year.

• 22:55Griffin Newman?

  It would take half a year.

• 22:56David Sims?

  Uh, for us to do Karasawa.

• 22:57Speaker 03

  You don't have to do all. That's the whole fucking thing that we do.

• 23:01Griffin Newman?

  The only workaround is we split it in half, which is what we did with Spielberg. We did half of Spielberg seven years ago. And now we're only finally getting around to the first half.

• 23:10Speaker 03

  That like you're not scrambling to watch a six hour long reinterpretation of Hamlet. It's King Lear. In his, is it King Lear in his color? I get it. Rips.

• 23:19David Sims?

  That movie's good.

• 23:19Speaker 03

  But do the people not want to hear you guys talk about fucking Yojimbo? Am I crazy here that they don't want to hear?

• 23:25Griffin Newman?

  I think it's an aspiration.

• 23:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think there's a certain level of people, person. But I just do want to say. I oftentimes have texted you guys like, hey, if you can't have me back, I get it. And I just need to be clear. I'm not ever setting out to make your fans furious.

• 23:39Griffin Newman?

  Of course not.

• 23:40Speaker 03

  I don't want to.

• 23:41Griffin Newman?

  You're the nice guy of podcasting.

• 23:42Speaker 03

  I'm not trying to get people mad, but if they get mad to a degree where I find it funny and unreasonable, I will at that point be the heel.

• 23:49Griffin Newman?

  You did a bit at our live show where you played into that and played the heel. And my manager, who I don't think has ever listened to an episode of the podcast, texted me and said, "That angry nerd was hilarious. Where did you find him?"

• 23:59Speaker 03

  Look at that. Where did you find him, Griffin?

• 24:02Griffin Newman?

  But this is the thing.

• 24:02Speaker 03

  When I was someone shepherding you in your early career.

• 24:05Griffin Newman?

  Absolutely.

• 24:05Speaker 03

  This is how bad things have got for Chris Gethard. Where did you, Griffin, discover Gethard?

• 24:10Griffin Newman?

  This is what's wild to me is the amount of time she's had to hear me talk about you.

• 24:14Speaker 03

  They don't even know these people.

• 24:16Griffin Newman?

  It's if I-

• 24:16Speaker 03

  Cause I remain on the fringe.

• 24:18Griffin Newman?

  When I was like, "That's Chris Gethard," and she was like, "Oh."

• 24:21Speaker 03

  People don't, yeah.

• 24:22Griffin Newman?

  It's not like she doesn't know who Chris Gethard is, but it was like disconnected for her.

• 24:25Speaker 03

  No, I get it.

• 24:26Griffin Newman?

  I think also you came in, started speaking from the crowd, started riling people up. We maybe never properly introduced you because everyone was like, "We know who the fuck this is."

• 24:35Speaker 03

  Also, the way you asked me to do that show was, "We're doing this thing at Town Hall. Can you come do the Gethard thing?"

• 24:43David Sims?

  Right. Come like essentially.

• 24:45Griffin Newman?

  Play full heel.

• 24:46David Sims?

  Be a full, like fucking new world order.

• 24:48Speaker 03

  Can I just say one quick thing? And I'm not apologizing. We talked a lot about Spider-Man 2 on the Spider-Man 2 episode.

• 24:57Griffin Newman?

  I know.

• 24:58Speaker 03

  I think we talked about-

• 24:58Griffin Newman?

  I, I don't-

• 24:59Speaker 03

  Did my bit miss? Maybe. There are people where I've read their opinions that they were looking forward to that episode and felt let down by it. And I feel very sad about that because it's one of my favorite movies.

• 25:08David Sims?

  That episode's good. I mean, there-

• 25:10Griffin Newman?

  When I had-

• 25:10David Sims?

  Yeah, there are internal factors that are-

• 25:12Griffin Newman?

  If there was a problem.

• 25:13David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 25:14Speaker 03

  When I read some people on the Blank Check subreddit going, "This guy, his show got canceled and he's been cut from every movie and I'm happy." I go, "Maybe there's something to be said for the culture of Reddit and fandom and where they crossed over that some of you could do some soul searching." I'm not setting out to piss everybody off.

• 25:32Griffin Newman?

  No, I agree with you. And this is why I'm bringing all of this up. This is why I'm bringing all this up. At the end of your bit, you walk off stage and we had a moment of genuine, earnest reflection in which we just called out, "This whole podcast doesn't happen without you."

• 25:45David Sims?

  We used to watch your show. We were obsessed with you. You know, exactly.

• 25:49Griffin Newman?

  But, I mean, yeah, it's like basically David and I bond over the ritual of the Gethard show every week.

• 25:55Speaker 03

  David wrote a very nice review and I believe you interviewed him about that review for the Gethard show.

• 25:58Griffin Newman?

  No, Alyssa- Who saw both of us being really active in the community was like, you guys should be friends. But also I meet fucking Hozly because Creek in the Cave hires him to take over as producer of all of their podcasts, but specifically Talking TCGS.

• 26:12Speaker 03

  Which was a weird break.

• 26:13Griffin Newman?

  Which Riley and I were already doing. He comes in midstream.

• 26:16Speaker 03

  There was a stretch where that podcast was, I think, getting as many listens as the show was getting views.

• 26:24Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 26:24Speaker 03

  And maybe even started to at times threaten it. We were like, we can't have the podcast analyzing the show. More popular TV show, that's a bad sign of this show's future.

• 26:34Griffin Newman?

  What was the platform the episodes used to be on? Do you remember there was the website where they would go, like the archived episodes before you were uploading them to YouTube? And I'm trying to remember the name of that place.

• 26:44Speaker 03

  Blink TV?

• 26:44Griffin Newman?

  I think so.

• 26:45Speaker 03

  Blip TV?

• 26:46Griffin Newman?

  Blip TV.

• 26:46Speaker 03

  Blip TV.

• 26:47Griffin Newman?

  Blip.tv. What I remember is reporting to you.

• 26:51Speaker 03

  Imagine if the Gethard Show existed when Twitch and Discord were.

• 26:54Griffin Newman?

  Insane. I mean, it's a different world.

• 26:56Speaker 03

  You're slugging it out on Blip TV!

• 26:58Griffin Newman?

  I remember telling you how the first episode of the podcast talking about the show had done, and you said, "That's more listens than Blip TV reports we get per episode." And it forced you to look under the head and be like, "Is Blip TV's algorithm wrong? Like, do they not know how to actually measure views?"

• 27:19Speaker 03

  And hey, turns out I was wrong. If we see everything that's happened with Blip TV since then, my paranoia was incorrect. I should have trusted in Blip TV.

• 27:26Griffin Newman?

  But this is.

• 27:26David Sims?

  Was. You always love a Wikipedia entry that starts with "was."

• 27:30Griffin Newman?

  And 10 years of Blank Check, a decade of Dreams. It feels very important to have you back on.

• 27:34Speaker 03

  You're getting them mad at me right now because they're going, "Just talk about Last Crusade, guys. Why do all the Gethard episodes have these wrong ones?"

• 27:41David Sims?

  Let's talk about Indiana Jones.

• 27:43Griffin Newman?

  And David's famously not in a mood today.

• 27:45Speaker 03

  But David, you can imagine, I'm being a really good boy.

• 27:47Griffin Newman?

  He's being a great boy.

• 27:47Speaker 03

  Being a really good boy.

• 27:49Speaker 02

  I think we're mirroring the movie in that we're starting off the episode by talking about the early days.

• 27:53Griffin Newman?

  Correct.

• 27:53Speaker 02

  But now we're gonna swing into talking about the subject.

• 27:57Griffin Newman?

  Geth, tell me about your relationship with Indiana Jones up until the point of seeing this movie.

• 28:01David Sims?

  Had you seen the others?

• 28:02Speaker 03

  The first one I see is Last Crusade in the theater.

• 28:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 28:06Speaker 03

  The second one I see is that my parents used to take me, uh, there was a. A campground called Otter Lake. It's still there. It's in the Poconos. North Jersey. That's a good, cheap vacation. Go camping at a campground in the Poconos. This campground is one of these places that has a camp store. That's the first place I ever bought comic books. They also did movie nights. And I see Raiders, uh, I see Raiders as part, it's screened at a campground. In like a little outdoor pavilion, which is a really beautiful way to see Raiders.

• 28:36Griffin Newman?

  In your memory, is it a print? Are they like showing a print or are they like projecting a VHS?

• 28:41Speaker 03

  It's a VHS. Yep. I would be shocked if they had.

• 28:44David Sims?

  No, they weren't. They didn't have a projector out there.

• 28:46Speaker 03

  We went to very different summer camps.

• 28:48Griffin Newman?

  This is true. This is true. I'm not gonna deny it.

• 28:52David Sims?

  It's the old days.

• 28:53Griffin Newman?

  Touching on things to make listeners anger. I'm not gonna deny it.

• 28:56David Sims?

  All right.

• 28:57Speaker 03

  My parents were like, where's the cheapest place we can go? These people probably like literally prop up a big screen TV. No, it was on a screen.

• 29:05Griffin Newman?

  They would project DVDs at my summer camp, but I do feel like there was a weird culture. It's the only reason I asked the follow up question. There was a weird culture of like 16 millimeter prints existing of blockbuster movies that were basically just for like Boy Scouts and shit like that.

• 29:20Speaker 03

  I wouldn't be shocked.

• 29:21Griffin Newman?

  Like church showing.

• 29:22Speaker 03

  In my memory, it wasn't like, I want to tell you that I can still hear like the crickets and smell campfires and hear the like of the film starting. I wish I could.

• 29:30Griffin Newman?

  Probably VHS.

• 29:31Speaker 03

  Probably a VHS, but I would argue Crusade in the theater and then double back to Raiders of the Lost Ark with, with your parents at a summer camp surrounded by other kids like.

• 29:41David Sims?

  This is the stuff of childhood.

• 29:42Speaker 03

  That is 80, that's an 80s childhood.

• 29:45Griffin Newman?

  And then do you immediately jump to Temple to fill that in?

• 29:49Speaker 03

  Temple I don't see for a few years. From what I remember, my, one of my best friends in high school and later one of my college roommates. He has a VHS of Temple that I watch. I don't watch until high school.

• 30:02David Sims?

  I don't think I saw Temple until just it was randomly on TV or whatever.

• 30:05Speaker 03

  Where, but I do feel like a lot of the most iconic things I knew about Indiana Jones before seeing any of them were images from Temple, which is weird.

• 30:13Griffin Newman?

  I, I think we talk about it in that episode, but there was such a media frenzy around, look how fucking Jack Harrison Ford got for Temple, that I think the imagery of him with like the ripped off sleeve and the machete and his chest showing was for a long time, kind of just one of the most repeated Indiana Jones images.

• 30:32Speaker 03

  And him, him tied up to a stake. I remember feeling like that was really scary in my head. And again, I haven't rewatched all of them for recent purposes. And I know, I will also say too, I'm not obsessive with Indiana Jones. Him, the big ball chasing him, that's Temple as well. That's Raiders. That's the iconic image then. They were jumbled up in my mind, but yes, it's last crusade in the theater. It's Raiders at a summer camp.

• 30:57Griffin Newman?

  You're making me realize all three Indies have a big, he's tied to something scene. Like the first one has him in Marion while the ark is being opened. The second one has him tied up while they're like hypnotizing him.

• 31:08Speaker 03

  This one, he's tied to his own dad.

• 31:09Griffin Newman?

  Yes. And that, yeah.

• 31:10Speaker 03

  And they talking about fucking.

• 31:12David Sims?

  They are talking about fucking.

• 31:13Griffin Newman?

  Talking about fucking.

• 31:14Speaker 03

  Tied to your dad. The bondage, they're talking about fucking, hey, I mean, we have to talk about this later.

• 31:20David Sims?

  It's a huge part of this movie. A movie that is largely airy fun with this sort of, sort of silly weird thing at the center of it of like, they become Eskimo brothers.

• 31:31Speaker 03

  They, they both had sex with the same woman who again.

• 31:34David Sims?

  Like back to back.

• 31:35Speaker 03

  Also though, like the psychology of Steven Spielberg, making the Nazi that they both had sex with, undeniably super hot in her Nazi outfit is, I am now old enough to realize the psychological layers of that are very.

• 31:51David Sims?

  I, I want to see if there's anything on that in the dossier because I do wonder.

• 31:54Speaker 03

  She's, when she's dressed as a Nazi.

• 31:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I was Empire of the Sun. I mean, I agree. Empire of the Sun is the episode right before this, correct? Uh, yeah. Just because we've been recording a little out of order. Correct. Okay, so Billga, our friend Billga Berry on that episode, put forward the notion that the big shift in Spielberg's career is like at about the midway point, he shifts in the perspective of making movies from the vantage point of a son to making movies from the vantage point of a father. And that this is kind of the fulcrum movie because it's dealing with both sides of that. Sure, sure. Uh, which is very interesting to me. And I think through that prism, this movie's relationship to sexuality is very interesting and how weird like Spielberg's

• 32:39Griffin Newman?

  relationship to depicting any form of sex in movies or even really talking about it is, but also so much of his core trauma being related to the like cuckolding of his dad and being too aware of the sexual lives of his parents and all this sort of shit. It is just funny that this movie is like an Eskimo Brothers Family Adventure comedy that just kind of like won't move on from that, but that also it's like you've set up these Indiana Jones movies that have this sort of like James Bond style, we're gonna have a new love interest every movie. And then this one basically does the fake out of just like, she's not a love interest, she's a villain. And for the second half of the movie, it's gonna be him and his dad kind of having weird conversation about the fact that they both fucked her in the past.

• 33:24Speaker 03

  I also have been rewatching, I just finished, really deeply meaningful to me, rewatched, um, the original Star Wars trilogy with my five year old, which anybody who's heard me on the show can imagine that that was like very, very real for me, but I am.

• 33:38Griffin Newman?

  Was he like D plus?

• 33:40Speaker 03

  No, he.

• 33:40Griffin Newman?

  Medium.

• 33:41Speaker 03

  He loved him.

• 33:42Griffin Newman?

  Of course.

• 33:42Speaker 03

  Loved him. And you know what else?

• 33:44Griffin Newman?

  Who are his guys?

• 33:45Speaker 03

  Here's the thing that's really, really cool.

• 33:47Griffin Newman?

  I'm not gonna talk about Star Wars.

• 33:47Speaker 03

  I mean, he did love, there's, this movie has so little to do with Star Wars, we can't focus on it too much. Loved Obi-Wan, like loved Obi-Wan, loved every time Obi-Wan came back. It is sad to see though that kids now growing up, grow up with enough spoilers that like another kid had told him.

• 34:02Griffin Newman?

  You already know.

• 34:03Speaker 03

  About Luke and Vader.

• 34:05Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 34:05Speaker 03

  He knew so much about Yoda that you realize. The magic of this little impish creature.

• 34:10David Sims?

  Right, turning out to be a wise old.

• 34:12Speaker 03

  They all like he had. I wish I could have seen that cold. I mean.

• 34:16David Sims?

  Yeah, I saw that cold.

• 34:16Speaker 03

  I saw it cold and it blew my mind. I think I already knew like Yoda's wise.

• 34:20David Sims?

  Alright, we're not talking.

• 34:21Speaker 03

  The reason I want, the only reason I wanted to bring it up, because I don't want to dive down the Star Wars rabbit hole is that both Han Solo and Indiana Jones are also by modern standards and who cares? But I'm like, oh, Harrison Ford played a real good sex pest.

• 34:35David Sims?

  I don't think Indiana Jones.

• 34:36Speaker 03

  Okay, so here's. I don't know. Here's my take. Like, here's a flower. He's a little. He's a Pepe Le Pew level in the Venice scene. I agree with you. Gets off the boat with the, like, basically starts rubbing his dick over his pants.

• 34:53Speaker 03

  I gotta fuck this broad, like, instantaneous.

• 34:55Griffin Newman?

  Jeff, can we just get that sound clean one more time?

• 34:59Griffin Newman?

  I agree with you and it speaks to how good Spielberg's story math brain is at this point where he's like, if we later find out she's a Nazi, the audience won't hold it against him.

• 35:10Speaker 03

  So smokin' hot. But I also think. To the point where he's still trying to save her as she tries to steal the Holy Grail one last time. He's like, no, no, no, come on, you gotta get back up here. Like, you're like, oh, man, she's.

• 35:24David Sims?

  That scene is interesting. We'll talk about that.

• 35:26Griffin Newman?

  I.

• 35:26David Sims?

  There's dynamics to that scene.

• 35:27Griffin Newman?

  I find Willie Scott so annoying. She is one of my least favorite characters in the history of movies. And part of what I find annoying about her is, as we've covered in this ep, that episode, it feels like a character who's trying to stop Indiana Jones from being an Indiana Jones movie. And the tension between the two of them is just him being like, I'm Indiana Jones. Sooner or later, she's gonna fuck me. I'm just kind of sitting here being like, okay, lady, until she finally breaks down, right? What I think they correctly identified in sort of recalibrating for this movie is like, man, you know what's Harrison Ford magic? And the thing they stumbled upon that you wouldn't think would be his superpower is like the back and forth between him and Leia and this guy who's so fucking cool and confident

• 36:12Griffin Newman?

  being a little flummoxed by like, fuck, I wish I didn't care about you.

• 36:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:17Griffin Newman?

  And you can actually needle me.

• 36:19Speaker 03

  There's character growth with.

• 36:20Griffin Newman?

  Marion has that because of the history and fucking Henry Jones Senior has that. Where it's fun to watch Indiana Jones be like, duh, fuck, I'm pretending I don't care.

• 36:30Speaker 03

  I also want to say to you, I'm not bringing it up to be like sex pest. Let's, let's cancel Harrison Ford's early characters. Just like, oh, society has changed. This does, this does feel jarring. Like, my kid will watch Indiana Jones someday and be like, it's kind of aggressive with girls, Dad. Like, like, you go, oh, I'm not saying, like, I don't, I don't care. And I'm not looking for a debate on it, but I'm just like, oh, whoa. Like, the shift stand out that like, this was the most charming motherfucker of our childhood twice. Two franchises, him charming the shit out of all of us. And it does, you do flag it pretty quickly in 2025.

• 37:10Griffin Newman?

  I just think there's an interesting kind of rug pull on this movie, like, sort of emasculating him halfway through. Cause the second his dad enters, it's like, he's infantilized. And also his dad's like-

• 37:23Speaker 03

  Instantaneously calls him sir.

• 37:25Griffin Newman?

  Right. And also his dad's like, yeah, I fucked her, you know? And it's just sort of like, it kind of defangs that weird sexual element of him in a way where it's like, now he's like a little boy.

• 37:34Speaker 03

  Also, it comes, the reveal comes via she talks in her sleep, which I think famously was an improvised line.

• 37:40David Sims?

  It's a very good line, either improvised or maybe suggested by someone. But let's open the dossier.

• 37:49Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 37:50David Sims?

  Yes.

• 37:53David Sims?

  Is that the Cine's cow?

• 37:55Griffin Newman?

  The Cine's cow is back.

• 37:56David Sims?

  Haven't heard from her in a while.

• 37:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, she's reactivated because she's horny for chicken fingers.

• 38:02David Sims?

  Okay.

• 38:03Griffin Newman?

  And she's excited for the streaming debut of teenage sex and death at Camp Miasma.

• 38:07David Sims?

  Wow.

• 38:08Griffin Newman?

  The cow likes chicken.

• 38:10David Sims?

  Remember cow and chicken? Let's look it up. While, while you, while you tell the, the great listeners about the great stuff on movie.

• 38:17Griffin Newman?

  Well, MUBI is a global film company, bringing great cinema to the world and to you. Curating and elevating visionary filmmaking, all handpicked, always. That's what MUBI does. Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma.

• 38:28David Sims?

  Yes.

• 38:29Griffin Newman?

  One of my favorite movies of the year.

• 38:30David Sims?

  Absolutely.

• 38:31Griffin Newman?

  You can feel the rush now at home. There's a hole at the bottom of the lake where the movies come from.

• 38:37David Sims?

  That is a line in the movie.

• 38:38Griffin Newman?

  In the new movie from Jane Schomburn, Past and Future Guest.

• 38:41David Sims?

  Past and Future Guest, a great filmmaker, a great podcast guest.

• 38:44Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 38:45David Sims?

  Great friend.

• 38:45Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 38:46David Sims?

  Um, this movie rocks. It's got, of course, it stars Hannah Einbinder and Gillian Anderson.

• 38:51Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 38:52David Sims?

  You know, legends, and I tip my cap. But Zach Cherry.

• 38:54Griffin Newman?

  Performances, friend of the show.

• 38:56David Sims?

  Friend of the show, Zach Cherry.

• 38:57Griffin Newman?

  Zach Cherry.

• 38:58David Sims?

  Also in it.

• 38:59Griffin Newman?

  This is true.

• 39:00David Sims?

  Such a cool movie. Won the Queer Paul McCann. If you haven't heard about this movie, I don't know what's going on with you. But like, it obviously has, it was out in theaters, uh, this summer and now it's on movie.

• 39:10Griffin Newman?

  Hannah Einbinder plays a filmmaker attempting to reboot the Camp Miasma franchise, trying to track down the original final girl from the first movie to, to make some sort of legacy sequel, who's played by Gillian Anderson, who lives at the summer camp.

• 39:25David Sims?

  Yes. And you know, and then they hang out and it's regular.

• 39:29Griffin Newman?

  What happens?

• 39:31Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's one of those Hollywood's out of ideas. No, it's very much a movie about Hollywood being out of ideas while being, uh, an example of there still being new stories to tell.

• 39:41David Sims?

  It's now streaming exclusively on movie and you can try movie free for 30 days at movie.com slash blank check. That's M U B I dot com slash blank check for a whole month of great cinema for free.

• 39:53Griffin Newman?

  They got so many great movies on there to watch, but worth it for 30 days for Miasma.

• 39:58David Sims?

  Damn right.

• 40:03Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 40:04David Sims?

  Yes.

• 40:04Griffin Newman?

  He lurks in shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula, a new full cast audio thriller starring Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, and an A-list cast, including Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, Amy Lou Wood as Lucy, David Johnson as Dr. Seward, and many more. That is an all-star cast.

• 40:25David Sims?

  Yeah, this new full cast thriller locks Mina Harker in a battle of minds with the Count. When Mina's fiance, Jonathan Harker, uh, Louis Partridge, uh, vanishes in Transylvania, Mina pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula's already hunting her.

• 40:45Griffin Newman?

  Joined by the enigmatic Van Helsing, Mina and a small fearless band race against time to stop this ancient terror. Using her intellect, her resolve, and a gift for drawing the unseen lines between clues, Mina may just hold the key to bring down the Count if he hasn't already found his way inside her mind.

• 41:01David Sims?

  Featuring a haunting original score by Elon Eschery and a spatial dolby Atmos sound design, Audible's Dracula invites you to welcome literature's most shadowy figure into your home. Feel the terror of being hunted and the thrill of the hunt. Don't miss this year's best new audio thriller, Ramstoker's Dracula, Audible's new full cast original adaptation, written by Robin Ahern, now on Audible. Listen to the darkness. Go to audible.com/ListenToDracula.

• 41:36Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 41:36David Sims?

  Yes?

• 41:37Griffin Newman?

  Ugh.

• 41:38David Sims?

  Uh oh.

• 41:38Griffin Newman?

  It's November.

• 41:39David Sims?

  Ah!

• 41:41Griffin Newman?

  And you know what that means, the old stereotype about November.

• 41:44David Sims?

  Turkeys?

• 41:44Griffin Newman?

  One long sprint to the finish line.

• 41:46David Sims?

  Oh, of course.

• 41:48Griffin Newman?

  Packed schedule, questionable food choices, and somehow a social calendar that got way fuller than you planned. And I ain't talking about Sam Fuller, we're not covering him yet in the podcast.

• 41:56David Sims?

  No, though maybe we should.

• 41:57Griffin Newman?

  We might get there eventually.

• 41:59David Sims?

  I can't remember. Big red one. We can call it the Big Red Podcast.

• 42:02Griffin Newman?

  Listen, when things get complicated, not when life is easy and when you got time for a whole routine, right now when everything is full and something has to give one scoop cold water every morning before anything else, as I like to say, scoop there it is.

• 42:15David Sims?

  You do like to say that every morning you text me, scoop there it is. And that means I now know that you had your AG1.

• 42:22Griffin Newman?

  And I'm awake.

• 42:23David Sims?

  Uh, but yeah, you're, I know you're, you're a daily AG1 user, and it's basically the, uh, the glue that holds your internal organs together at this point.

• 42:31Griffin Newman?

  It's not just marketing. AG1 Next Gen is backed by four separate gold standard clinical trials. Not we did a study.

• 42:39David Sims?

  Thank you for that voice.

• 42:39Griffin Newman?

  Four independent studies with key nutrient levels improved within three months of consistent use. This is the thing I like about AG1. They're not resting on their laurels. They constantly work to better themselves.

• 42:51David Sims?

  Um, yes, AG1, they've got now AG1 Pro.

• 42:55Griffin Newman?

  For the professionals.

• 42:56David Sims?

  Same daily drink now with the performance and recovery layer built in. So you've got five grams of Cre vitalis, a premium German made creatine monohydrate, and one of the most studied compounds in sports science, plus CAHMB for muscle protection and zinc carnosine for gut support.

• 43:14Griffin Newman?

  Thank God.

• 43:15David Sims?

  Next gen is the foundation pro adds what your body needs to recover.

• 43:19Griffin Newman?

  You might be having some big meals this November. AG1 is what you need to keep your gut in check. Keep things, as I like to put it, regular.

• 43:27David Sims?

  Yes. So for a limited time, visit drink AG1.com slash check and get a free immune support bundle, including omega three, fish oil and vitamin D three plus K2 with your first subscription of AG1 next gen or AG1 Pro. That's drink AG1.com slash check. And after checkout, be sure to let them know that Blank Check sent you.

• 43:57David Sims?

  Before Indiana Jones, the last crusade, Steven Spielberg was supposed to make Rain Man.

• 44:03Griffin Newman?

  That was a, that was a masterful moment of leadership.

• 44:05David Sims?

  Thank you.

• 44:05Griffin Newman?

  You leading us out of our manic.

• 44:07David Sims?

  Well, please, I'm going to keep leading.

• 44:09Griffin Newman?

  And just, just. It was good. You're really good. Tell you get things we've covered in the previous Indiana Jones movies. Spielberg really wanted to make James Bond. They kept rejecting him. Lucas comes to me and is like, I got a good idea. This is like the James Bond killer. But when he brings it to him, he's like, if you make it, you have to promise me you make three. There's sort of this handshake deal of like, I want this to be a franchise and I don't want you to run off and have shittier jaws sequels in your wake. I need three out of you. So he's not contractually like tied on paper, but he owes a third Indiana Jones. Like a pinky swear. Totally. And they're. I don't want to talk too much about George Lucas. He doesn't have much to do. They're working on scripts for years, right? And it's just sort of not happening. And Spielberg has this attitude of like, I'm not going to do the third one unless I

• 44:54Griffin Newman?

  like the script because we kind of got eaten alive on Temple.

• 44:57David Sims?

  Rain Man, Martin Brest project.

• 45:01David Sims?

  Martin Brest drops out. Steven Spielberg works in that product for a long time. Of course, he eventually drops out for reasons that Griffin is kind of setting up and Barry Levinson takes over and wins Best Picture and Best Director.

• 45:13Griffin Newman?

  And Best Director.

• 45:14David Sims?

  Which are trophies that Spielberg obviously was hunting for in the 1980s.

• 45:20Griffin Newman?

  Also, interesting to think about him potentially working with Tom Cruise 15 years earlier than he actually does.

• 45:25David Sims?

  He was working with Dustin and Tom Cruise on it, like it's a whole thing. And he says they just could not get the script where he wanted it. And they hit this point where they were planning on an indie, you know, indie three Memorial Day 1989. And he was like, I'm just gonna have to stop doing Rain Man because like, I won't have enough time to do indie, essentially. So, you know, he's made a lot of grown up movies, right? Like before Last Crusade, he's made, he's back to back made Color Purple and Empire of the Sun. These two sort of like conscious departures from like the Spielberg type of movie.

• 46:03Griffin Newman?

  And Temple of Doom is also like a Spielberg movie that's kind of fighting itself. I think the public is like, can you go back to doing something that's just fun?

• 46:12David Sims?

  Be a showman again. The other movie, of course, that Spielberg almost does is Big, which was written by his sister Anne. And he wanted Harrison Ford to play the part, you know, to play Joey, Joel, right?

• 46:29David Sims?

  You know.

• 46:30Griffin Newman?

  Imagine Harrison Ford dancing on that big piano.

• 46:33David Sims?

  Josh, Josh.

• 46:34Griffin Newman?

  Harrison Ford at F A O.

• 46:36David Sims?

  I just don't see that at all. I wanna design toys.

• 46:41Griffin Newman?

  Just pointing his finger at people.

• 46:43David Sims?

  I like candy. He decides that he would be stealing his sister's thunder in a way. That's the way he sort of puts it. And he, I don't know, he steps aside.

• 46:51Griffin Newman?

  Which I think was smart and like the, the path works out better for everyone involved.

• 46:55David Sims?

  Harrison Ford has had kind of a great run post Temple of Doom. He does Witness, gets an Oscar nomination. I still think it's one of his best movies.

• 47:05Griffin Newman?

  Turns out Witness, very good. Every screenwriting book talks about it.

• 47:07David Sims?

  It's Witness. Witness is incredible. Then he does another movie.

• 47:10Griffin Newman?

  Chinatown and Witness.

• 47:11David Sims?

  Another movie with Peter Weir, Mosquito Coast, that I feel like at the time is mixed reception, but is a good movie.

• 47:16Griffin Newman?

  He talks about that as being a real turning point in his career of like, this is not what the public wants out of Harrison Ford. I can't fight it. They're like. They're bought into the brand and they don't care about me going and doing something I find interesting. They want to see me play the hits. But is it an excellent film with an excellent performance?

• 47:34David Sims?

  And then in 88, he does frantic. That's not a huge hit, although it's not a bad movie, the Polanski movie. And Working Girl, which is a great hit for him and I think a nice swerve in terms of the kind of thing he can do.

• 47:47Griffin Newman?

  Diversification movie of just like this guy's movie star, like power is expanding.

• 47:52David Sims?

  While Spielberg and Ford are off doing all this stuff, George Lucas, who we're not going to talk about much, apparently.

• 47:57Griffin Newman?

  That would have that much to do with this movie.

• 47:59David Sims?

  Is developing whatever this will be, tentatively initially, The Monkey King was the name of this entry.

• 48:07Griffin Newman?

  Which is like ancient Chinese mythology, a very big figure.

• 48:10David Sims?

  He says at first he had said to Steven Spielberg, like, what about the Holy Grail? And Steven Spielberg had been like, meh. Then he, you know, he goes over to the Monkey King. Wait, oh, I see Spielberg says when he said Holy Grail, he was like, are we going to have like rabbits jumping out of, you know, like he was like Monty Python.

• 48:29Griffin Newman?

  Oh, in his mind, the like, the shadow of Monty Python was too big to take Holy Grail seriously.

• 48:35David Sims?

  I guess so.

• 48:36Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I like that.

• 48:37David Sims?

  So, right. So this Monkey King idea, which Chris Columbus, a writer of Gremlins at that point, you know, sort of a.

• 48:43Griffin Newman?

  Is a big Amblin, yeah, in-house.

• 48:46David Sims?

  Developed something eventually is called Indiana Jones and the Lost City of Sun Wu King.

• 48:51Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 48:51David Sims?

  Not, not rolling off the tongue for me.

• 48:53Griffin Newman?

  Not that catchy.

• 48:54David Sims?

  Uh, but has this prelude set in a haunted castle, which was something they'd thought about for Indy too. Of like, what if we did like a big haunted Scottish castle with Indy? Uh, and then mostly it's like, uh, set in the far east or whatever. This all gets junked, you know, they, they eventually just like, forget it. Uh, there is, I think a script you can read out there though, like there's something out there that people have found. And that's when George Lucas is like, please, Holy Grail, can we do my idea for the Holy Grail?

• 49:22Griffin Newman?

  There also have always been the rumors that Diane Thomas at some point was developing a version that was the haunted castle expanded at large.

• 49:29David Sims?

  The haunted castle thing was just around for a long time.

• 49:32Griffin Newman?

  They're like throwing a lot of shit at the wall. But Spielberg was like, I just did Poltergeist. I don't want to do another haunted house movie, even if it's a castle.

• 49:40David Sims?

  Lucas is holy grail, holy grail. Spielberg is like, can we put his dad in it? Spielberg is said, basically takes total credit for like, I was the one who's like, that's, Holy Grail is not that interesting to me. The dad thing is interesting.

• 49:50Griffin Newman?

  Weird. I wonder why Steven Spielberg was insisting on putting a complicated dad relationship into a movie.

• 49:55David Sims?

  Uh, so he's like, we can do a character study here. Like, there can be some juice there. And George Lucas says, how is that conducive to the Grail search? Sounds like George was a real fun guy to chat with.

• 50:05Griffin Newman?

  Famously does not like, uh, using interiority to interrogate his own relationship to his father. It's just like, no, Darth Vader is just based on scary people.

• 50:15David Sims?

  Well, the dad could be like the Grail hunter in a way, right? Like, that could be the thing. And Ford likes that idea. They bring in Meno Menhez, who wrote Color Purple.

• 50:24Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh, of course. A Dutch white man who wrote The Color Purple.

• 50:27David Sims?

  They don't like that script, so they bring in Jeff Bohm, who is the credited guy who had done the Lethal Weapon movies.

• 50:32Griffin Newman?

  Big thing I read, uh, Bohm said. Yes. Well, also that in the Menho script, to a certain extent, Joan Senior was the MacGuffin. You had this thing of like, he's been kidnapped, he's gone missing, looking for it. You don't get to him until the very end of the movie. And Jeff Bohm's like, that's the halfway point. You want at least half a movie of them riffing off each other.

• 50:55Speaker 03

  I was actually shocked rewatching it to come in today. It's, it's deeper into the existing movie than it. It's 48 minutes in.

• 51:03Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 51:03Speaker 03

  That's Sean, where I was like, oh, you already have a really good, fun 48 minutes. Like, imagine.

• 51:08Griffin Newman?

  Before Sean Connery even appears. Yes. And imagine if he didn't enter until they like, got to the cave at the end. You know, and you just, I feel like we talk about so many modern movies that do this. Especially like legacy sequels and shit, where they're like, and then at the end, you bring out the old guy or whatever. And you're just like, no, we want to see it. Like, it feels like sometimes movies outthink the big blow up, like pop at the end of the movie.

• 51:35Griffin Newman?

  And like, they think that's the maximum impact and stringing the audience along in anticipation until that point. You're like, no, we want to see the characters we like doing stuff. If you have a good hook, let it play out rather than let it be a twist.

• 51:47David Sims?

  So, you know, I think they settled well, right, on what you're talking about. They, initially, Lucas is imagining kind of an Olivier type, like an eccentric British guy.

• 52:01Griffin Newman?

  More prim and proper.

• 52:03David Sims?

  But Spielberg is immediately like, no, James Bond. Like, we need Sean Connery.

• 52:07Griffin Newman?

  Which is just like a billion dollar idea.

• 52:10David Sims?

  Sean Connery is only 12 years older than Harrison Ford, but they, I think they sell that just great. Ford looks weirdly young, like, I guess, for his age.

• 52:17Griffin Newman?

  And Connery looked old. The fact that he let himself go bald and wasn't dying his hair and all that shit. You know, he's got the gray. I feel like-

• 52:24David Sims?

  Lucas is a flat no. He's like, no, he's James Bond. It's overwhelming.

• 52:27Griffin Newman?

  It's too much.

• 52:28David Sims?

  And Spielberg is correctly like-

• 52:30Griffin Newman?

  Unlike James Bond at this point. And like, Untouchables has recontextualized him in a really good way. And I also think, the 12-year age difference, I feel was like a movie fun fact that was, I heard a lot as a child of like, you want to hear something crazy in like, books I read about movies or like, in theater pre-movie trivia? And much like the box office record getting like, beaten multiple times, I feel like there are now so many movies where you're like, the mom is five years older, where the 12 years between Connery and Ford doesn't feel that insane anymore. I'm also like, I kind of buy that Connery could have gotten someone pregnant when he was 12.

• 53:11Griffin Newman?

  Not to be gross about it. I don't think the movie is asking us to accept-

• 53:16David Sims?

  Thumbs down to that.

• 53:17Griffin Newman?

  That's your backstory. I love that that's your backstory.

• 53:20David Sims?

  Going off of that, though. Sean, Sean, they bring me in. Listen, listen. Everyone be quiet.

• 53:25Griffin Newman?

  Teachers-

• 53:26David Sims?

  I am going to say something.

• 53:27Griffin Newman?

  Teachers got money in fifth grade. This is having a really close relation with his history teacher.

• 53:33Speaker 02

  And burger.

• 53:34Griffin Newman?

  Perhaps some extracurricular studies. I'm picturing a 12 year old full beard.

• 53:39Speaker 03

  Fall through puberty.

• 53:40David Sims?

  Listen, the thing I have to say is relevant.

• 53:42Speaker 03

  Yes, David. Yes, David.

• 53:43Griffin Newman?

  That's staying in, by the way. Major cut can stand down.

• 53:45David Sims?

  They bring Connery the script. He has some notes. He's Sean Connery. He comes over to George, according to Spielberg, and says, look, anything Indy does in the context of the story, I have done better. When he talks about sleeping with Elsa, write in that I slept with her too. That's Connery putting that in.

• 54:02Griffin Newman?

  Now, in that context, it sounds like Connery's ego shit that is nonsense, but.

• 54:06David Sims?

  Back to back.

• 54:07Griffin Newman?

  I do think it was a gift for the movie. I do think they figured out the right way to execute that.

• 54:12Speaker 03

  He, Connery is so charming and funny in this movie. Is it fair to say he is to the Indiana Jones franchise, what Samuel Jackson is to the Die Hard franchise? This injection of joy and fun in the third one.

• 54:25David Sims?

  I know what you're saying. Right. The third movie getting like a kind of lift.

• 54:27Speaker 03

  Second one is wobbly and this killer performance brings it back.

• 54:30Griffin Newman?

  We covered those last year and it wasn't. Right. And it was a similar thing where we're just like, Die Hard 2 doesn't have a handle on what this is anymore and is just trying to repeat the same thing and find ways to flip it. You're right. Where they're just like, we need to like balance this with something else. We need someone. I agree with you. I think that's a really good take.

• 54:49Speaker 03

  Thank you so much.

• 54:50Griffin Newman?

  And also solves their problem of like, how do you top Marion?

• 54:53David Sims?

  Connery's take is.

• 54:55Griffin Newman?

  Which is like, don't make it a new love interest.

• 54:57David Sims?

  He thinks Indy is kind of a dork.

• 54:59Speaker 03

  Between Griffin's interjections and David's, David's.

• 55:02David Sims?

  No, I'm just, I'm just trying to get.

• 55:03Speaker 03

  I got you. I got you. I'm on your team. I'm a good boy.

• 55:07David Sims?

  I'm truly just trying to read this great statement from Sean Connery, who's definitely not problematic in any way.

• 55:14Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 55:14David Sims?

  I didn't want the father to be so much of a wimp. Aside from the fact that Indiana Jones is not as well dressed as James Bond. I mean, they're not really in the same dress area.

• 55:24Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 55:24David Sims?

  But okay. The main difference between them is sexual. Indiana, she deals with women shyly. In the first film, he's flustered when the student writes, I love you on her eyelids. James Bond would have had all those young coeds for breakfast. Just, he used to just, you know.

• 55:38Griffin Newman?

  Say shit.

• 55:38David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 55:39Griffin Newman?

  I do feel like they kind of tricked Connery into playing more of a wimp than he realizes. By, by doing this bit of he's kind of like the whole movie being like, all these theatrics. It's unbecoming to do this fucking adventure hero shit. Like the intellectual aspect of it, even if he's like fucked Elsa first. It does have this vibe of just like, he is a man of letters. He is smarter and more mature.

• 56:04David Sims?

  But that.

• 56:04Griffin Newman?

  And he's unimpressed with everything.

• 56:06David Sims?

  Gives him alpha energy of like, I don't know how to use these guns and planes and shit. And when they're in the car, he's just like, go faster. You know, it's like.

• 56:15Griffin Newman?

  Perfect balance of the two things. They found a way to satisfy his, I need to be the coolest guy note in a way that is funny and gives Indiana Jones more to fight against in terms of feeling low status.

• 56:29Speaker 03

  But I also think some of that is to give credit to the filmmakers and, and the choices surrounding it, like is not some of that intentional in the themes of like, nobody thinks their dad is cool.

• 56:41David Sims?

  Sure.

• 56:42Speaker 03

  When you're young.

• 56:43David Sims?

  Yes.

• 56:43Speaker 03

  And then you grow up and realize maybe your dad has done some cool stuff. And then obviously the other side of the coin, which I think the idea of this being the fulcrum between son to father in Spielberg, you go, in a movie that is weirdly almost all set pieces and almost all big adventure fun, that line Sean Connery has of like, I never even told him anything, it would have taken five minutes. Weirdly emotional to watch as a dad right now, who has thought a lot about my relationship with my father and my relationship with my son.

• 57:16Griffin Newman?

  You, you did a great one person show that is available for public.

• 57:20Speaker 03

  On Audible.

• 57:20Griffin Newman?

  On Audible?

• 57:21Speaker 03

  It was on Audible.

• 57:22Griffin Newman?

  That is all about that, about you sort of reexamining your relationship with your father through the prism of being a dad?

• 57:27Speaker 03

  That line always, I mean, I will also say, and I don't want to jump too far ahead, like, I do have such a distinct, you know, when you learn how movies work, some of the magic goes away. I remember being nine years old and when the tank went off the cliff, I was, I was like, oh shit.

• 57:42David Sims?

  Oh, you, you bought it.

• 57:44Speaker 03

  Indiana Jones is dead.

• 57:44David Sims?

  Okay, okay.

• 57:45Speaker 03

  I had not.

• 57:46David Sims?

  You were young enough.

• 57:47Speaker 03

  I hadn't been trained that that was never gonna happen.

• 57:49David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 57:50Speaker 03

  Um, so that move, that moment really stands out to me, but rewatching it today as a dad of like, I never, it would have taken five minutes.

• 57:59Griffin Newman?

  Here's the other thing I think this movie is very clever about is like the real narrative spine of this thing, or let's say the emotional spine of this is that like Indiana Jones would tell you, I'm nothing like my father. I hate my father.

• 58:17David Sims?

  Not hate, but he-

• 58:19Speaker 03

  Resent my dad. I didn't really know-

• 58:20David Sims?

  He and I didn't know each other. He was not good at, he was not there for me.

• 58:24Griffin Newman?

  And I think it's the brilliance of the opening sequence, which kind of does this mislead of like, Indiana Jones had one encounter with this random stranger who seems so fucking cool and mythical that he modeled his whole life after him. And yet this movie is like, Indiana Jones doesn't realize that he's become his father. That so much of what he does is informed by his father.

• 58:43Speaker 03

  He accuses his dad of like, you bailed and dodged all responsibility when the only reason he's here is because we watched him climb out of a window to not do his job at the university.

• 58:52Griffin Newman?

  Correct. And not to jump all the way to the end, but it's like the thing of Connery on the floor, talking through the things he hopes Indiana Jones has digested about the Grail. So that he can make it through the traps and Indy's running in his head and it being this sort of silent disconnected dialogue between the two of them.

• 59:11Speaker 03

  Although I would argue, Griffin, and we can pin this for later, I would actually argue that the narrative spine of this movie strangely is an ode to the wonders of transportation.

• 59:24David Sims?

  Okay. Well, I'm interested in that.

• 59:25Griffin Newman?

  You're lighting David up right now.

• 59:28David Sims?

  I want to just say the other, the prologue, the young Indiana Jones prologue is another George Lucas idea that Spielberg is also very resistant to kind of against Spielberg being like, I've kind of done that, right? Like I've done so much, you know, movies about kids and stuff.

• 59:42Griffin Newman?

  Also, do we need to like explain Indiana Jones? Which I'm like, this is the good version of what I hate every time a modern franchise movie tries to do it. This movie somehow just like, gives you 10 minutes with a lot of like, that's the first time with the whip, that's the first time with the hat, here's how we got the scar. I love it so much. And part of it's that it's like, they don't hit it with dialogue, that it's all visual and that it moves so fast. And that part of it is like dismantling him as like, this is like a show. This is like a posture, you know?

• 1:00:15Speaker 03

  Are there any other films you guys can think of that do the little mini movie before the movie? Like Inglourious Basterds.

• 1:00:22David Sims?

  Yeah, there's, I feel like there's, I mean, my recent fave, The Empty Man.

• 1:00:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:26David Sims?

  Uh, you know, I like movies that do that, that are kind of like, right, like, we're gonna tell a whole contained little mood setting story.

• 1:00:33Speaker 03

  Some of the lore, some of the.

• 1:00:34David Sims?

  And I do feel like that's, I mean, that is a James Bond thing usually. So like, we're gonna have a whole little James Bond mission happen. And then credits, and then James Bond will begin the main mission, which may or may not be connected that much.

• 1:00:46Speaker 03

  There's maybe more of it in horror, like the opening of Scream is a version of that.

• 1:00:50Griffin Newman?

  You know, the misdirection, like this is your fake lead.

• 1:00:53David Sims?

  Lots of examples.

• 1:00:54Griffin Newman?

  But I do always love that.

• 1:00:56Speaker 03

  This one is beloved, right? In general, I would imagine.

• 1:00:59David Sims?

  This movie is beloved as.

• 1:01:01Speaker 03

  Any people that are like, the River Phoenix thing felt like extremely.

• 1:01:04Griffin Newman?

  Part of it is that River Phoenix is so good.

• 1:01:06David Sims?

  He's really good.

• 1:01:06Griffin Newman?

  He had worked with him on Mosquito Coast, where he was his son.

• 1:01:09David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:01:10Griffin Newman?

  And like, they pitched this to Ford, and he's like, A, I think River Phoenix is a great actor. B, that's the working actor in his age group who looks the most like I looked at my, at that age.

• 1:01:20Speaker 03

  Have you guys looked up, I looked up, what, the chubby wet friend?

• 1:01:26David Sims?

  The chubby wet.

• 1:01:27Griffin Newman?

  He has.

• 1:01:28David Sims?

  Really good.

• 1:01:29Speaker 03

  The River Phoenix's friend.

• 1:01:31David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:32Speaker 03

  The, the story of that actor is pretty fascinating.

• 1:01:35David Sims?

  Really?

• 1:01:35Speaker 03

  Pretty fascinating.

• 1:01:37David Sims?

  Who's the actor?

• 1:01:38Speaker 03

  I, I, I am remiss because I took a bunch of notes on my laptop, which I did not bring, but that actor, look, if you.

• 1:01:46Griffin Newman?

  Is it fascinating in a way where if we start talking about it on mic, it would bum us out?

• 1:01:50Speaker 03

  No, I don't think so.

• 1:01:51Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:01:51Speaker 03

  I think he, if I remember right now, he's like a fitness guru with a lot of opinions on having been in the Indiana Jones mini movie.

• 1:01:59David Sims?

  Was he credited as chubby wet?

• 1:02:01Speaker 03

  No, I forget his character's name, but he's just, I, I, he's a chubby friend and he's strangely wet. He's sweaty to the degree of wetness through the entirety of the River Phoenix mini movie. Yeah, no, it's, it's a warranted wetness.

• 1:02:15Griffin Newman?

  Can I sidebar to Jeff Bohm for a moment? Had like a killer fucking screenwriting career. And you look at this guy, he dies at 50. He's like credited on all these like big Amblini movies or sequels or whatever. And you're like, oh, this guy must have been like a Shane Black, Joe Esterhouse, like died in a mountain of cocaine. Was like doing high paid script punch up.

• 1:02:38David Sims?

  Isn't that the answer?

• 1:02:38Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:02:39David Sims?

  No, okay, okay.

• 1:02:39Griffin Newman?

  He had like a bizarre like heart illness. He died young after a protracted battle. And then you read about him for being this guy who they like brought into fix scripts and got paid so much. Has all these huge credits. He sounds a lot closer to John Hughes where it was like, didn't like the industry, was a real family man. Just had really good story math instincts. And all these things where they'd bring him a script that was like, this has been development for 10 years. The premise is great, but yet no one can crack it. We keep attaching talent, but we lose them. And he would just be like, here's the problem right here. And just immediately solve it. Like the emotions of it. And you can read his Wikipedia is really thorough and actually very well written. Uh, and goes through like project by project and what his takes on each project.

• 1:03:24Griffin Newman?

  Very few he originated. And it was like one of his things where he was like, Henry Jones senior has to come through at the halfway point. Like stuff like that where he would just immediately go, that's the movie. Um, and it's just kind of a tragic loss.

• 1:03:37David Sims?

  Um, the thing about his screenplay, just to note is that according to Spielberg, Tom Stoppard wrote every single line of dialogue in this film.

• 1:03:46Griffin Newman?

  That I believe that.

• 1:03:48David Sims?

  Which was sort of like at that point, Stoppard had written Empire of the Sun for him. Like Stoppard is right. So like all those great lines we were talking about, I think a lot of that is coming from Tom Stoppard. Anyway, Spielberg, I think recognizes after Temple of Doom. Oh, Denham Elliott should be in this movie. John Rhys Davis should be in this movie. Like, I don't know why I didn't have his friends from the Raiders of the Lost Ark that everyone liked not be in the second movie.

• 1:04:12Griffin Newman?

  You talking about being surprised at how late Connery comes in. I was surprised where I was like, in my memory, the whole second half of the movie is like the four of them as a wrecking crew.

• 1:04:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, to me, it was much closer to the River Phoenix prologue. And then we're pretty quickly into this father's stories. Oh, no, that's all after Venice and the church and all this stuff.

• 1:04:32Griffin Newman?

  And because it ends with like, oh, the four of them riding off into the sunset, iconically. I'm like, all four of them are together for the whole second half, right? And it's like, no denim and like, Jarmie Stavies are kind of off at their own thing. They only really all converge at the very end. But it is so nice to have both of them in there. And Spielberg's just so clearly aware of like, these guys fucking rule. The audience loves these characters. Let's give them more fun.

• 1:04:55David Sims?

  And which I think is a wise decision. Alison Doody, who plays Elsa.

• 1:04:59Griffin Newman?

  Which let's say is funny to say, funny to hear.

• 1:05:01David Sims?

  An Irish actress.

• 1:05:03Griffin Newman?

  Not to be disrespectful.

• 1:05:04David Sims?

  Her name is Alison Doody.

• 1:05:05Griffin Newman?

  Her name is Alison Doody.

• 1:05:07David Sims?

  No, you know, getting around.

• 1:05:09Speaker 03

  I can't, as someone whose last name spells Get Hard, I cannot participate in a last name.

• 1:05:15David Sims?

  She made her debut as a sort of like, small character in A View to a Kill, the Bond movie.

• 1:05:22Griffin Newman?

  Yes. Which when we did that Patreon series, I was like, who the fuck is that? Started doing like wolf whistles and then I was like, oh, it's Alison Doody.

• 1:05:31David Sims?

  And so I guess she's kind of getting cast off of that sort of interest. She is kind of plucked out of relative obscurity and doesn't really have a big career.

• 1:05:42Griffin Newman?

  He was like, I want a Grace Kelly. I found this woman. She looks like Grace Kelly.

• 1:05:45David Sims?

  She does have the look, like Geth was saying, like to a T, you know, she.

• 1:05:50Griffin Newman?

  But also this character is going to be a mystery, you know? It's like, right.

• 1:05:54Speaker 03

  It is, again, we'll get there, but she is obviously an extraordinarily attractive human being and is playing an object of affection for multiple characters in this movie. But a costumer made a choice to say she shall be at her most smoking hot while in full Nazi regalia.

• 1:06:18David Sims?

  River Phoenix, obviously brought to Spielberg by Harrison Ford. Julian Glover, obviously, had been in The Empire Strikes Back, right?

• 1:06:26Griffin Newman?

  Yes, yeah. That I, we, we had him do-

• 1:06:29David Sims?

  I think he'd interviewed for other, like, parts in Indiana Jones movies before, like, he was very on their radar.

• 1:06:35Griffin Newman?

  We had him on George Lucas Talk Show, a thing that I've told you and you went like, that's kind of depressing for him.

• 1:06:43Speaker 03

  Donovan, you had Colonel Veers?

• 1:06:45Griffin Newman?

  And the weirdest-

• 1:06:46Speaker 03

  Colonel Veers, right?

• 1:06:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. He, uh, yes, correct. Yes.

• 1:06:49David Sims?

  Yeah, he's the guy in the ATAT who's like-

• 1:06:51Griffin Newman?

  Your favorite character.

• 1:06:53David Sims?

  No, my favorite, no.

• 1:06:54Griffin Newman?

  No, Piet's your favorite.

• 1:06:55David Sims?

  Admiral Piet.

• 1:06:56Griffin Newman?

  I'm sorry.

• 1:06:56David Sims?

  Admiral Piet is way, I mean-

• 1:06:58Speaker 03

  They are companion characters.

• 1:06:59David Sims?

  Yeah, but Admiral Piet-

• 1:07:00Griffin Newman?

  Favorite thing in Star Wars is that sidebar of Empire of the sort of weird-

• 1:07:06David Sims?

  He's in both.

• 1:07:07Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:07:07David Sims?

  The fact that he's just the guy who someone gets killed next to him and then it's like, you're in charge and he's like, oh, fuck.

• 1:07:13Griffin Newman?

  David wrote a very good piece of the-

• 1:07:14David Sims?

  Yeah, The Ballad of Admiral Piet, one of my best pieces. And then, like, he makes it all the way to the end of Jedi. Like, he keeps dodging Vader strangling him, even though he fucked up himself.

• 1:07:24Speaker 03

  He's in the corporate machine-

• 1:07:26David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:07:26Speaker 03

  Climbing the corporate ladder, trying to stay out of the way, which is a very relatable thing for anyone who has ever worked in-

• 1:07:32David Sims?

  He's the only Star Wars Empire char- uh, Empire, I mean, member of the Empire that they bother to give any arc. Everyone else tends to just kind of die.

• 1:07:41Speaker 03

  David, I guess I just don't understand your obsession with bringing up Star Wars every time.

• 1:07:45David Sims?

  I love Admiral Piet so much.

• 1:07:46Griffin Newman?

  Speaking of favorite Star Wars characters, though, this movie has a Kit Fisto, everybody.

• 1:07:51David Sims?

  Who is?

• 1:07:53Speaker 03

  Kazim. Kazim is your Fisto.

• 1:07:57Griffin Newman?

  Kazim is the Fisto of this movie.

• 1:07:59Speaker 03

  I thought you were gonna say that Grail Knight is your Fisto.

• 1:08:02Griffin Newman?

  Oh, we got that.

• 1:08:03David Sims?

  Oh, there's so much- The Grail Knight is cool.

• 1:08:06Speaker 03

  The Grail Knight's maybe the saddest character in the history of cinema.

• 1:08:09David Sims?

  The Grail Knight is very melancholy.

• 1:08:11Griffin Newman?

  We need to save this, but when I threw the list together and was like, we're doing Spielberg, what do you want? You responded with a Grail Knight specific-

• 1:08:19Speaker 03

  There's so much to say.

• 1:08:20Griffin Newman?

  A statement that might sound hyperbolic, but that I kind of agree with you.

• 1:08:23Speaker 03

  What did I say?

• 1:08:24Griffin Newman?

  I'll remind you, but it was your whole reason for wanting to do this movie.

• 1:08:27Speaker 03

  You didn't tell me this stuff with your dad, this being such a pivotal experience. You focused on the grill night and you had it taken. I said, you have to do that episode.

• 1:08:33Griffin Newman?

  It's, I have so much to say about the grill night, but what, maybe Kazim is like the sassy ten.

• 1:08:38Speaker 03

  Kazim is the guy, he's the Kit Fisto though, where he shows up, doesn't get much screen time.

• 1:08:42David Sims?

  And you're kind of like, I want to see, like, this guy has some hat.

• 1:08:44Speaker 03

  Where I'm like, I would watch, whatever this fucking Brotherhood of the Cruciform Sword bullshit is. Give me a Disney plus, give me, give me an Andor for the Cruciform Sword crew?

• 1:08:55Griffin Newman?

  I think I can say this.

• 1:08:58Speaker 03

  Kazim, he has fucked shit up in his life. He will do so again, and now he's gone. That's Kit Fisto.

• 1:09:03Griffin Newman?

  Years ago, auditioned for what they had said was Untitled Star Wars Project. And when I read the sides, I was like, this is clearly a Young Indiana Jones show.

• 1:09:15David Sims?

  Uh huh, uh huh.

• 1:09:16Griffin Newman?

  And it was going to be animated. And then I think as like Dial of Destiny was kind of getting complicated, they were like, let's just focus on this and not do the sideshow. But there was going to be a Disney Plus animated, sort of like, uh, River Phoenix-esque rather than Young Indiana Jones-esque.

• 1:09:36Speaker 03

  And after X-Men 97, I think they could pull it off. X-Men 97, some of the best television writing last year.

• 1:09:41David Sims?

  But there's nothing like X-Men 97 where it's like, people are not only nostalgic for that sort of old throwback X-Men. They're nostalgic for the nineties cartoon aesthetics, the nineties cartoon plotting. Like, it's like, it's not just that X-Men 97 is like, oh, let's sort of like do a new X-Men. It's like, no, no, we're picking up the thread of that show.

• 1:10:01Speaker 03

  Weirdly bold to go, it's not a new show.

• 1:10:05David Sims?

  Yeah, it's like sort of season six.

• 1:10:07Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, and also we're just like picking good comic storylines that weren't adapted.

• 1:10:11Speaker 03

  Also, everyone who likes this has aged by 25 to 30 years. So like, we'll do some stuff you can handle 25 to 30.

• 1:10:18David Sims?

  Yeah, it'll be more mature.

• 1:10:20Speaker 03

  It was a wild swing.

• 1:10:21David Sims?

  It was good.

• 1:10:22Griffin Newman?

  The thing that was very funny about the Indiana Jones cartoon thing was usually, you know, you'll get these breakdowns and it'll be like, Untitled Lucasfilm project, and you read it and you're like, this is Star Wars, but they're trying to hide that it's Star Wars?

• 1:10:33Speaker 03

  Yes, they call it Space Bears famously.

• 1:10:35Griffin Newman?

  Right. This they sent out as. Untitled Star Wars cartoon show. And I was like, oh, cool. I'm auditioning for a Star Wars cartoon show. And then I read the sides and they gave all the characters alien names. But they talked about being at a university and studying adventurers and wanting to collect relics. And I was like, you're using Star Wars as a cover for it being Indiana Jones. And you've named all the characters like blork, blork. But I was like, I think I'm reading for either young Sala or young Brody. It was one or the other. Your young, your Wado experience could make you a fantastic animated Sala. I think so, but this show has just not happened.

• 1:11:18Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:11:18David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:19Griffin Newman?

  This episode is brought to you by XYZ Films and the acclaimed new documentary Capturing Bigfoot. On October 20th, 1967, Roger Patterson captured 59 seconds of film showing a creature walking through the Northern California woods. I wonder if you can log that on Letterboxd.

• 1:11:36David Sims?

  It is an iconic video.

• 1:11:37Griffin Newman?

  Footage that became the most analyzed and debated in history. 59 years later, a reel of 16 millimeter film discovered in a safe changes everything. Capturing Bigfoot reveals the untold story behind the world's greatest mystery told for the first time by Patterson's own son and the people who were there. This is a story about family legacy, broken friendships, and how far people will go to protect a secret.

• 1:12:00David Sims?

  Of course, you got the classic, what they call Patterson Gimlin film. Everyone knows a Bigfoot out in the woods. Like the famous Bigfoot picture. This has other stuff shot by him that no one's ever seen. That's what makes this movie different.

• 1:12:12Griffin Newman?

  But we're also talking brand new 4K scans of the original film taken from the Patterson family archives that some historians have called the best rendering of the footage ever seen.

• 1:12:20David Sims?

  I feel like we've all seen that footage as like grainy.

• 1:12:23Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:12:24David Sims?

  You know, that you see, you know, whatever. You see it in a documentary for two seconds. But this is restoring it and making it look much more clear.

• 1:12:31Griffin Newman?

  There's also a companion podcast, the Capturing Bigfoot podcast, which goes deeper into the legend and lore of Bigfoot and the Patterson Gimlin film, featuring weekly episodes with experts in cryptozoology, urban legends, and filmmaking.

• 1:12:45David Sims?

  I'm something of an expert in cryptozoology.

• 1:12:47Griffin Newman?

  Well, of course, yes, but that's more of a hobby.

• 1:12:49David Sims?

  Yeah, this podcast, Capturing Bigfoot Podcast is hosted by the director of the film, Mark Evans, and it's available for free on YouTube and Spotify with exclusive episodes and content available on Patreon to members of the Capturing Bigfoot Society.

• 1:13:05Griffin Newman?

  Capturing Bigfoot is now available to rent or own on Amazon Prime Video. Learn more about Capturing Bigfoot at capturingbigfoot.com.

• 1:13:21Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:13:21David Sims?

  Yes?

• 1:13:22Griffin Newman?

  Uh, uh, who are you wearing?

• 1:13:24David Sims?

  Uh, who am I wearing?

• 1:13:25Griffin Newman?

  I'm doing like an impression of a red carpet correspondent, asking who you're wearing right now.

• 1:13:29David Sims?

  Well, I am wearing Quince.

• 1:13:32Griffin Newman?

  Well, well, well, what a Quince, Quincy dense.

• 1:13:36David Sims?

  It's a Mongolian cashmere zip sweater.

• 1:13:40Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:13:41David Sims?

  It's a sort of a brown. Would you agree?

• 1:13:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's like, maybe like a, what would you, a chocolate?

• 1:13:46David Sims?

  Sure. I have been seated next to people wearing this item of clothing and they have brushed against me, not to brag, and gone like, so soft.

• 1:13:54Griffin Newman?

  Oh, a soft boy. But listen, the best pieces in your closet are the ones that you can count on, whether you're heading to work, going out, or keeping things casual. And this time of year, Quince makes finding something great for everyone else just as easy. This holiday season, it's where I'm shopping for myself and everyone on my list.

• 1:14:10David Sims?

  Quince does rock. It's got high-quality staples, made with these premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere.

• 1:14:17Griffin Newman?

  Like you're wearing red.

• 1:14:18David Sims?

  14 karat gold? Italian leather?

• 1:14:22Griffin Newman?

  Mama mia.

• 1:14:22David Sims?

  All timeless, versatile pieces that feel special to unwrap and become everyday favorites long after the holidays. These cashmere sweaters, like the one I'm wearing, start at just $60. Lineup doesn't stop there. You've got premium down jackets, wool outerwear, cashmere accessories, everything you and your loved ones need to stay warm and look good together all season long.

• 1:14:42Griffin Newman?

  And everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen, so you can give luxury quality pieces without the luxury price tag.

• 1:14:55David Sims?

  So yeah, obviously I'm wearing Quince sweater right now. I've got Quince bedding at home. Ooh, they've got Christmas stockings.

• 1:15:02Griffin Newman?

  Oh, well, well, well. They got tree skirts.

• 1:15:04David Sims?

  They got garlands if you want to go Christmas mode.

• 1:15:07Griffin Newman?

  Your tree deserves to be dressed in Quince as well. And when it comes to gifting, Quince has a lot more than clothing. Think fine jewelry, leather bags, the aforementioned hotel quality bedding, chef-grade cookware, and five-star luggage. Basically, plenty of ways to find something special for everyone on your list. If you want to give the gift of quality this holiday season, download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. That's a year. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. Ding dong. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Blank Check. It's the best way to support the show.

• 1:15:52Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna push back on Kazim being the Fisto, and I'm gonna say this. I'm gonna explain my reason behind this. Not that he's not your Fisto, but in terms of his function in relation to the movie, and it's what I like about Kazim. Okay. Okay. Is that like, you're saying always mysterious. I'd love to watch a whole series about him. He's like, he goes a little deeper than this character does in the other Indiana Jones films, the characters that occupy this kind of role, right? We joked about in the other episodes that like, outside of your main like intellectual rival in the Indiana Jones movies, most of the iconic Indiana Jones villains don't have names. It's like German mechanic and monkey man and like thuggy guard, right?

• 1:16:37Griffin Newman?

  Guy who swings things around until he gets shot. Kyro swordsman. I mean, truly, like, the merch doesn't even name them, which Lucas loves doing. They all are just the description of who they are, and you get nothing more, right? And even if you're spending a whole sequence with the fucking guy, and there's a sense of character, you're like, this guy is defined by his, what he wears, or what his job is, or what he holds, and that is his whole fucking prism. The fact that Kazim like introduces himself. And starts to explain himself a little, already makes him a little less mysterious. And you're just like, oh, I'm not used to like Indiana Jones, like side goons being fleshed out to this degree.

• 1:17:20Griffin Newman?

  And I similarly think it's a nice surprise when he pops back up again.

• 1:17:23Speaker 03

  When you're like- So blatantly facing away from camera until he-

• 1:17:27Griffin Newman?

  But you're like, I was ready to never see Kazim again. But I think the Fisto thing is that like-

• 1:17:32Speaker 03

  See, we have a, I think a fundamental misunderstanding of what the Fisto is as a film archetype, which I think everyone would agree that is a film archetype.

• 1:17:40Griffin Newman?

  It is, it is. Let's unpack this quickly.

• 1:17:42Speaker 03

  But I just think the idea of like, who's that person? They're visually intriguing. They're-

• 1:17:48Griffin Newman?

  Kazim looks great.

• 1:17:49Speaker 03

  Looks great. And, and also both Kazim and Fisto, those parts were written small, but I would argue-

• 1:17:57Griffin Newman?

  The actors made them.

• 1:17:58Speaker 03

  That the actors, the actors squeezed more ju- the actors squeezed more juice out of that than ever was intended by the screenwriter director-

• 1:18:08Griffin Newman?

  It's a fucking juicer-o machine performance.

• 1:18:10Speaker 03

  Dude, the Fisto is the juicer of the movie. Who squeezed more juice than you ever thought? And Kazim squeezed so much more juice and intrigued the audience to a degree where much like Fisto in the prequel trilogies, you can't help but walk away and go, there are parts of the plot I don't remember. And I've been looking forward for decades to learn the plot of this. But what I do remember is that that green guy with those tendrils was fucking cool.

• 1:18:37David Sims?

  Kit Fisto, except for this is his reaction to Palpatine, you know, attacking with a lightsaber.

• 1:18:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:44David Sims?

  Which is the worst part of the movie.

• 1:18:46Griffin Newman?

  I would argue that.

• 1:18:47David Sims?

  A pretty deep impression of Kit Fisto.

• 1:18:48Speaker 03

  Kazim's death in this, I would say, maybe equally underwhelming compared to his punching above his weight and earning a little bit more in the audience's-

• 1:18:57David Sims?

  Oded Fair in The Mummy-

• 1:18:59Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:19:00David Sims?

  Is kind of a plussed up version of this character.

• 1:19:03Speaker 03

  He's Kazim as like co-lead or like-

• 1:19:05David Sims?

  And he's like in a whole movie where it's like, right, they're, they're going to the mummy's tomb and a guy shows up who's like, my entire life job is making sure nobody fucking goes to the mummy's tomb. Both, I know how scary it is and it's this sort of like holy thing for me.

• 1:19:19Speaker 03

  You're right though. It's one of the smart things the mummy does is it makes Kazim the solemn.

• 1:19:24David Sims?

  Have that character basically join the team.

• 1:19:25Speaker 03

  It makes Kazim the solemn.

• 1:19:26David Sims?

  And then he can show up- Sure.

• 1:19:28Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna say one more time.

• 1:19:29David Sims?

  Okay.

• 1:19:30Griffin Newman?

  Kind of makes Kazim the Salt look.

• 1:19:31Speaker 03

  Can I also put another thing out here that I never thought I'd have an opportunity to say? And this did just occur to me, this was not pre-planned.

• 1:19:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:38Speaker 03

  As we establish the archetype of the Fisto, the reason that the movie The Warriors is such a cult classic that has stood the test of time, even with the director's cuts trying to make it worse, is it's a movie comprised almost entirely of Fistos.

• 1:19:55Griffin Newman?

  I think it is fair to say that movie is an oops all Fistos.

• 1:19:58Speaker 03

  Exactly. That movie is, even half the main characters are Fistos.

• 1:20:03Griffin Newman?

  Something went wrong at the Cap'n Crunch factory and now the whole movie is made out of Fistos.

• 1:20:07David Sims?

  That entire gathering that happens like, uh,

• 1:20:10Speaker 03

  It's a Fisto convention.

• 1:20:11David Sims?

  It's, yeah, exactly, exactly.

• 1:20:13Speaker 03

  Oh, this is my dream conversation. Can you dig it?

• 1:20:18Griffin Newman?

  Fisto.

• 1:20:18David Sims?

  It's a Grail night.

• 1:20:19Griffin Newman?

  And they all put their Fisto.

• 1:20:21David Sims?

  We're not getting to Grail night yet.

• 1:20:22Griffin Newman?

  The city is yours.

• 1:20:24David Sims?

  The movie.

• 1:20:24Speaker 03

  The city is yours if you Fistos can count.

• 1:20:28David Sims?

  I will say just.

• 1:20:30Speaker 03

  Fistos, come out and play.

• 1:20:33David Sims?

  To return to the dossier. This film was shot.

• 1:20:36Speaker 03

  You don't want to go down a combo Warriors. Kid Fisto rabbit hole in your Indiana Jones in The Last Crusade episode.

• 1:20:43David Sims?

  This film is shot in 63 days, which is fairly impressive, given the scale.

• 1:20:49Griffin Newman?

  Spielberg, man.

• 1:20:50David Sims?

  The vibe from the set is literally basically everyone's just like, we had a great time. Everyone got along and it went really well. Like, there is no drama emerging from Last Crusade. Ford and Connery are like, we fucking clicked right away. We both liked what we were doing.

• 1:21:04Griffin Newman?

  Can I put forward an analog?

• 1:21:05David Sims?

  Spielberg's obviously at the absolute peak, I think, at this point of like, give this man an action sequence and he will run it like a machine.

• 1:21:13Griffin Newman?

  Can I put forth a movie analog?

• 1:21:15David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:21:15Griffin Newman?

  Ocean's 13 and Last Crusade, I think are similar.

• 1:21:19David Sims?

  Yes, I mean, Last Crusade's better than Ocean's 13. I do like Ocean's 13 a lot.

• 1:21:22Griffin Newman?

  No, I think Last Crusade's a much better version of this, but like, we tried something different with the second one and people were less into it. We're sorry, we're gonna give you the exact Indiana Jones sequel we think you want, you know? And I think there is that like freedom, especially because he's coming off of some grown up movies where he's like, it'd be fun to play with toys again. And like, he makes Schindler's List so shortly after this, things like making the Nazi woman hot.

• 1:21:47Speaker 03

  The merchandising line from Schindler's List notoriously bombed.

• 1:21:50David Sims?

  I. I will say Spielberg insisted on the-

• 1:21:53Speaker 03

  I did get you to giggle.

• 1:21:53David Sims?

  It's the last time he's able to kind of have this sort of fun successfully.

• 1:21:56David Sims?

  Yeah, but that's what, that's what I don't like about this movie. Is if some of it feels a little, right, uh, I don't know. Punching below his- Yeah, it's below-

• 1:22:06Speaker 03

  Can I say one other thing too? If in the movie, the Warriors,

• 1:22:11Speaker 03

  you replaced every time they said the word boppers with the word fistos, everything about that movie not only still works, but gets better.

• 1:22:18David Sims?

  It's where David-

• 1:22:19Speaker 03

  I'll move on, I'll move on.

• 1:22:19David Sims?

  David is holding up a noose.

• 1:22:20Speaker 03

  I'll move on, I'll move on.

• 1:22:22David Sims?

  Don't care about this. No, my point about Last Crusade. Spielberg insists or has the idea of including a moment that I really think is interesting in Last Crusade, which is when you see, uh, when they're in Berlin, like books being burnt, which is this moment of like unlevity, right? Like where you're like, Jesus fucking Christ. Almost every other moment, the Nazis in this movie are cartoon nobodies, right? Who are literally just like bowling pins for Indy to knock down and shit.

• 1:22:49Speaker 03

  Weirdly old crusty guys too. He makes them like feeble and old and gross.

• 1:22:53David Sims?

  They are really toothless in this movie in a way that's interesting compared to even Raiders, where they're quite sinister and like, you know, good villains. And certainly given that he's beginning to think about things like Schindler's List. This is 89, Schindler's List is 93. I don't have a problem with it. It's not like I'm like, oh, this movie is, you know, offensive, like, you know, with its cartoon Nazis. I'm just kind of like, it does feel like Spielberg has run out of things to do with that sort of stuff. Like, it's like, it's a little paint by numbers. That they're so silly. I mean, this movie is silly. This movie has a very good like tone to it that it doesn't deviate from.

• 1:23:31Speaker 03

  Even the book burning scene though, I'm like, it, it has this, it puts a pit in your stomach and it has since I was a kid.

• 1:23:36David Sims?

  It does.

• 1:23:37Speaker 03

  And they're marching and-

• 1:23:38David Sims?

  It's one of the only moments that really does that.

• 1:23:40Speaker 03

  But then it goes on so long that you do start to realize like, even with all this, they're just marching in a fucking circle, sniffing their own farts.

• 1:23:47David Sims?

  Right, there is like-

• 1:23:48Speaker 03

  You don't think there's any part of Spielberg that's like, fuck these Nazis?

• 1:23:52Griffin Newman?

  I think there is, I just-

• 1:23:54Speaker 03

  They're toothless and our two main heroes sleep with one of them.

• 1:23:58Griffin Newman?

  I, I think, you know, like-

• 1:24:00David Sims?

  They do, have we talked about that?

• 1:24:01Griffin Newman?

  I think the Nazis are scarier in Raiders. Way scarier. I think, I think weirdly, I agree with you that they're sort of like a more pointed kind of like, uh-

• 1:24:11Speaker 03

  These clowns.

• 1:24:12Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Yeah, in a way that- As much as he makes them goofier in this movie, has so much more of a like cartoon tone. He, it does feel like he's attacking them in personality and like culturally a lot more. I even think the like Hitler signing the Grail Diary thing-

• 1:24:30David Sims?

  An insane moment, yes.

• 1:24:30Griffin Newman?

  Is like a moment of just like, right, this guy's just like a fucking narcissist. Right? Like, all of this just came out of this guy with like a complex who like literally when handed the thing he's hired goons to find for him, still just thinks that some-

• 1:24:45David Sims?

  Right, you want my autograph, right?

• 1:24:47Speaker 03

  There's also, I, just on like a contextual note, I, this movie I did realize, I'm like, oh, these guys who are actors, who go to school for it, who train, who work really hard, who get to a, and a level where they can be in major motion pictures, and then they happen to look enough like Hitler to credibly play Hitler.

• 1:25:08David Sims?

  Well, you never wanted a phone call.

• 1:25:09Griffin Newman?

  You get stuck.

• 1:25:10Speaker 03

  You know what I mean? I'm like, damn, man, that's a typecasting that's real weird.

• 1:25:14Griffin Newman?

  We've, we talked about in other recent episodes, like the world of people who are that for Lincoln, and that's a much better silo to be in.

• 1:25:21Speaker 03

  There's Hitler guy, you know, there's a rolodex of Hitler guys in casting offices.

• 1:25:25Griffin Newman?

  Like, you'll book shit, but you gotta keep putting on that little fucking mustache.

• 1:25:29David Sims?

  But I just wanna, I just wanna tell you guys something.

• 1:25:31Speaker 03

  Please tell me, please tell me.

• 1:25:32David Sims?

  It seems you do not know. Do you know who plays Hitler in this movie?

• 1:25:35Griffin Newman?

  I always forget.

• 1:25:36David Sims?

  It's Michael Sheard is the name of the actor, but do you know another role that he played? He plays Ozil, Admiral Ozil-

• 1:25:43Speaker 03

  Ah, yes.

• 1:25:44David Sims?

  -in The Empire Strikes Back.

• 1:25:46Speaker 03

  Again, David, you're really pushing the Star Wars thing.

• 1:25:49David Sims?

  Who is the guy who comes out of light speed too fast.

• 1:25:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:25:52David Sims?

  fucks up, gets killed so that Admiral PX gets to be the next.

• 1:25:55Speaker 03

  Tell me who Admiral Ozil is?

• 1:25:58David Sims?

  I'm just saying, I don't think that guy played Hitler again.

• 1:26:00Speaker 03

  I have not always been respectful on this show. I've not always been the most respectful guest. That's one of the most disrespectful things anyone's ever done to me.

• 1:26:08David Sims?

  Let me just remind you that our show is being listened to by people who may not immediately know who fucking Admiral Ozil is.

• 1:26:15Speaker 03

  Speaking of Star Wars admirals, I recently did text Bobby Moynihan, and I'm not someone who smokes weed at all. I just texted Bobby the other day, what if Admiral Ackbar wasn't an actor? What if that was a real guy? What if you were like, I'll mine it Trader Joe's and the guy checking out in front of you? And you had to, you could be like, oh, yeah, like big fan.

• 1:26:34Griffin Newman?

  I don't know if I can repeat it, but Bobby Moynihan's Ackbar baby used to do it at the UCP.

• 1:26:38Speaker 03

  Oh, no, no, no.

• 1:26:39Griffin Newman?

  No, I can't say, but it was incredibly good. Can I close two loops on two things here? David?

• 1:26:44David Sims?

  I, I shudder.

• 1:26:45Griffin Newman?

  Things that Vargadon said up.

• 1:26:46David Sims?

  What?

• 1:26:47Griffin Newman?

  So Julian Sands was on George Lucas Talk Show, right? It was.

• 1:26:50David Sims?

  Julian Sant- no.

• 1:26:51Griffin Newman?

  No, I'm sorry. Julian Glover. I'm sorry.

• 1:26:54Griffin Newman?

  When I told you that, you were like, that's depressing for him.

• 1:26:57David Sims?

  Yes.

• 1:26:57Griffin Newman?

  That he had to be interviewed by you guys. And I think it was in London, we were doing an all day stream of people who have been in movies with Harrison Ford and using that as the thread. So we talked to him about like both Star Wars and Indiana Jones. He said that Donovan is easily his favorite role he's ever played in his career.

• 1:27:13David Sims?

  He's really, really good.

• 1:27:14Griffin Newman?

  And for a guy who's like classically trained, I expect him to sort of be like, well, those are like fun, silly movies I did for money. And they're like serious roles I prefer. And he was like, no, it was so great to be the main baddie in an Indiana Jones movie.

• 1:27:27Speaker 03

  And the turn, he has fun with the turn.

• 1:27:31David Sims?

  Look, he's really good. I think he's a great villain. He's probably, it's weird. He is the main villain.

• 1:27:37Griffin Newman?

  He is.

• 1:27:38David Sims?

  And at the same time, it's like.

• 1:27:40Griffin Newman?

  You have Vogel and you have.

• 1:27:41David Sims?

  And Allison Duty is kind of more than like the, right, the active villain in a way. But he's really good and the turn is really clever with him.

• 1:27:49Griffin Newman?

  Now, now to this point of what we were saying about this movie's like take on the Nazis. I think this character is sort of like a heightening of fucking Belloc, right? Where it's like, this guy has like a lot less swag than Belloc. He's a lot less cool. He's just kind of a dork in a certain way. He's like a rich dork hobbyist.

• 1:28:11David Sims?

  That's the thing. He's, he's like all these jerks we have to deal with now.

• 1:28:14Griffin Newman?

  He is. It's very weird.

• 1:28:16David Sims?

  Where I'm like, you don't even have an ideology. Probably you became a Nazi because you want the Holy Grail.

• 1:28:21Griffin Newman?

  He literally says, I just want to live forever. And we're living in an era where some of these billionaire assholes are trying to figure out how to live. Belloc is sort of just like, I don't, you know, when Indiana Jones is like, you're working with Nazis. He's just sort of like, I don't think about things that right, right? Like Donovan is like coming up with moral justification.

• 1:28:37David Sims?

  I joined the club so that I can like get the Holy Grail.

• 1:28:40Griffin Newman?

  Right. And then has this terrifying line of like, I'll be living forever long after the Nazi party is dead. Like, it doesn't matter what I did to support them. But you also have him like set up in the movie. The way the film introduces him, it feels like he is the guy who sends Indiana Jones on the mission. Not the guy who's going to be his rival the whole time. Right? And you're like, he fits into that role of just being the guy who like introduces them to Guff.

• 1:29:04David Sims?

  But it's a little.

• 1:29:05Griffin Newman?

  Too slick.

• 1:29:06David Sims?

  Yeah, it's a little too.

• 1:29:06Griffin Newman?

  But I'm like, I, I think there's something fun to this character being like, these guys are not cool at all. And people who do this are like morally bankrupt and like uninteresting.

• 1:29:18David Sims?

  All right.

• 1:29:18Speaker 03

  Can I just, just before we move on totally from one other thought, I just gotta give props. Admiral Ozil and Hitler, that's a hell of an IM.

• 1:29:25David Sims?

  I was gonna say, that's what I was saying about the guy. I don't think that's an actor who did a lot of Hitler. He had a broad British whatever career.

• 1:29:34Griffin Newman?

  This was the other thing that's, this was the other thing.

• 1:29:36David Sims?

  Adds Hitler in there.

• 1:29:37Griffin Newman?

  That Glover said was just like Spielberg was really loyal, or I'm sorry, Lucas was really loyal to those guys.

• 1:29:42David Sims?

  His British character actor guy.

• 1:29:44Griffin Newman?

  And that he was saying like, Steven, we're hiring Glover. You know, like my, my guys we've had in London have just been fucking.

• 1:29:51Speaker 03

  I love the idea that George Lucas calls that guy up. He's like, I got your back. I'm going to get you back in. It's going to be a blockbuster. You're going to make residuals.

• 1:29:59David Sims?

  And you're playing a really well-known character.

• 1:30:02Speaker 03

  Yo, yeah. So you're going to be Adolf Hitler.

• 1:30:07Griffin Newman?

  Well, clearly I must have like some meaty monologues, right? You're like, it's kind of a non-speaking.

• 1:30:12David Sims?

  What's the other loop?

• 1:30:14Griffin Newman?

  It's an under five.

• 1:30:15David Sims?

  It's an under. What's the other loop you wanted to close?

• 1:30:17Griffin Newman?

  I'm trying to remember. I'll come back.

• 1:30:18David Sims?

  Forget it.

• 1:30:19Griffin Newman?

  Don't forget, I'll remember.

• 1:30:20David Sims?

  Not.

• 1:30:21Griffin Newman?

  The opposite.

• 1:30:21David Sims?

  Let's not jump to the end. The whole thing with Last Crusade is like, as much as it has lots of fun stuff, I do feel like 80% of what everyone wants to talk about is just the Grail scene because it's such a little short story of a scene, right? And it's so weird. And also if you miss it, you start to overthink it. You're like, I'm sorry, Elsa's just like, uh, this one. And he's like, yeah, I believe you.

• 1:30:43David Sims?

  Aren't you supposed to be like rich and smart?

• 1:30:45Griffin Newman?

  I remember the other thing. All along. We'll get to it. I remember the other thing. That's more relevant in two earlier episodes, but makes sense within the context of what we're talking about here. I forgot to mention these two. 1941, have you ever seen it, Gath? I have not.

• 1:30:59David Sims?

  Spielberg film.

• 1:31:00Griffin Newman?

  First Spielberg's first attempt at like making Nazis villains in a kind of like popcorn movie that isn't going to take it seriously, right?

• 1:31:10David Sims?

  Well, they're barely, it's only.

• 1:31:11Griffin Newman?

  That film is more about the Japanese, but Christopher Lee plays a Nazi officer who's working with the Japanese. And it just like, doesn't work. And Christopher Lee, obviously like one of the greatest of all time.

• 1:31:21David Sims?

  He's doing his best.

• 1:31:22Griffin Newman?

  And he's introduced speaking German and you're just like, I can't wait to hate Christopher Lee as a comedy Nazi. And it doesn't connect. Spielberg wrote and shot and cut Christopher Lee in 1941, doing the exact tote, coat hanger bit. He was like, here's a really funny idea. You have a twisted Nazi character. He takes out a device, you think he's going to torture the guy. There's this whole interrogation subplot in that movie. And then it turns out it's just a coat hanger and this guy cares about his fancy clothes more. And he was like, I thought it was so funny. I put in the movie, it fell fucking flat. It was silence. It was dead and I couldn't get over it. And I was like, I have to make this joke work in something.

• 1:32:05Griffin Newman?

  And then I was like Raiders, we built this character tote, it would work for him, right? And it was like, it fucking played like gangbusters. I wasn't going to throw that out. That speaks to his like. Growth in learning how to calibrate. How can you do Nazis in a movie where you're not dealing with the full weight and severity of what they did? But you're also not completely turning them into like silly bullshit. Right? Which 1941, that's a larger problem with that movie. It does not deal with serious issues in a funny way. Raiders does it in a more scary way, but pulpy. This movie, I think, has the right version of like comedy Nazis because it does take more potshots at their expense.

• 1:32:47Speaker 03

  There's also just something, I do think there's something to note about. There's a documentary, I believe, called The Last Laugh. All about how Jewish comedians deal with Holocaust jokes.

• 1:33:00Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:33:01Speaker 03

  And seeing someone of Spielberg's generation come about as a very prominent Jewish director and see him sort out how to portray Nazis throughout the course of his career. There's just something obvious to be said about culturally, it's fascinating. And like, there's no real way to get it right. And just see him like that does represent on some level.

• 1:33:23David Sims?

  My big.

• 1:33:23Speaker 03

  Feeling for.

• 1:33:24David Sims?

  I think Julian Glover is fun. I think Alison Doody is fun. I don't think like I'm just my big note for this movie. It's not even a big note. I don't care. I like this movie. I think it's fun. I think it's a good movie. It's just, I don't, there's nothing scary about the villainy in it, really. So there's just a lot of stakes.

• 1:33:38Griffin Newman?

  But the whole second half, it's like, no, but the major conflict becomes him figuring out shit with his dad.

• 1:33:43David Sims?

  That conflicts, that stuff is fine.

• 1:33:44Griffin Newman?

  That sort of supplants the who's the bad guy he meets out with.

• 1:33:48David Sims?

  That is then completely resolved after the tank goes off the cliff. Like after that, they are, they are settled.

• 1:33:54Speaker 03

  I think part of it, David, that I do.

• 1:33:55David Sims?

  And then we just do the grail, which is fun. But at that point, they, the Nazis, I'm not like scared of them at all.

• 1:34:01Speaker 03

  Well, one thing that really stands out to me though, is just a big show, don't tell note of they basically say. If the Nazis get the Holy Grail, they kind of indicate now they'll be able to have these Nazi super soldiers that can't die.

• 1:34:15David Sims?

  Yeah, but they won't.

• 1:34:16Speaker 03

  Where you're just like, that's, as a viewer, I'd never buying that that's gonna happen.

• 1:34:20David Sims?

  That's the thing with Raiders, that's the other thing with Raiders, there's this kind of, there is this more gripping, like, we both, we, someone's gonna get to this weird thing first, and lord knows what's in it, but like, the Nazis have designs on its power. With the Holy Grail, right, there's this sort of like, wow, what if someone got the Holy Grail? And I'm like, what if someone got, what do you mean? That he lives forever? Like, okay, one guy, like, I mean, like.

• 1:34:44Speaker 03

  He's gonna have, like, your whole army come drink from the Holy, like, at this point.

• 1:34:49David Sims?

  And then, of course, they get there, and it's like, yeah, you can live forever if you stay right the fuck here in this place and you cannot leave.

• 1:34:55Speaker 03

  Can't cross the seal.

• 1:34:56David Sims?

  Yeah, you can't cross the seal, but like, that's the, the Grail myth is always that.

• 1:34:59Speaker 03

  Let me know when it's time to start talking about that scene. I don't wanna step on toes.

• 1:35:02David Sims?

  The Grail myth is, you know, in Arthurian legend all the way to this, it's always, right, it's like, oh, well, that would be great. And then you get there and you're like, I guess I didn't think hard about why this would be great, because it's not great. Like, this wasn't worth it, and the journey is the destination, the destination is the journey and all that.

• 1:35:17Speaker 03

  Ties back into the Nazi thing, though, because how much of it, there's also something fascinating, too, to watch of like, hey, prominent Jewish filmmaker, dealing with Nazis, also in a movie that presupposes that Christian mythology is happening, that there is a Holy Grail that has magical powers.

• 1:35:37Griffin Newman?

  Well, right, the original Raiders is Old Testament, it is far more rabbinical in like, the nature.

• 1:35:45David Sims?

  Raiders is Jewish.

• 1:35:46Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:35:46David Sims?

  Temple is Hindu, this is Christian. There's like a thing, there's like a.

• 1:35:51Speaker 03

  Choices are made.

• 1:35:52David Sims?

  Choices are made, and then Temple of, Crystal Skull kind of abandons that.

• 1:35:55Griffin Newman?

  I mean, this is the thing that people always point out of like, the disconnect between the original trilogy and the two later Old Man Indie movies, more than anything is like, the first three are all about like, I don't believe in religion.

• 1:36:06David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:36:06Griffin Newman?

  It's like the supernatural, but through specifically the prism of religious myth.

• 1:36:10David Sims?

  Artifacts that people cared about, and hid away, and like, there's, you know, runic languages, and they're, but, right, I don't actually think that the Holy Grail's gonna keep me alive.

• 1:36:19Griffin Newman?

  But you're coasting off of.

• 1:36:21David Sims?

  Every fucking time, it's like, oh, it turns out it keeps you alive.

• 1:36:22Griffin Newman?

  Specific religious stories that, you know, like, versus the latter two are like, there's a thing he may or may not believe in, but it's a lot fudgier of like, a time travel device or aliens. This movie is like, it benefits from being like, yeah, fucking a thurian legend. That's like so baked in.

• 1:36:39Speaker 03

  But it does almost feel like it gets to the end and even Spielberg himself is kind of like, and like, I guess you drink from the holy gr- like, it feels like a guy who has no, certainly no investment.

• 1:36:53David Sims?

  Is so goofy and I think it works, but it is like on paper, you're just like, this is really silly.

• 1:37:01Speaker 03

  When do we talk about the gr-?

• 1:37:03Griffin Newman?

  With the River Phoenix sequence, which feels like Spielberg dusting off the cobwebs and being like, you want fun Spielberg, here's fun Spielberg. They're on top of a fucking circus train.

• 1:37:14Speaker 03

  Spielberg loves transportation in this movie.

• 1:37:17David Sims?

  To, uh, you know, the greatest show on earth, the big circus train sequence in that were the first cinematic sequence that impacted him.

• 1:37:23Griffin Newman?

  But he's also just loading like everything up. He's like, I'm gonna give you all the fun. They're on top of a moving train that has animals inside of it.

• 1:37:31Speaker 03

  If you ask me, like, what's the big set piece chase transportationy thing in this crusade? In my mind, as a fan since I'm nine, I go, oh, the tank one. And then you rewatch it. You're like, they got a train?

• 1:37:43David Sims?

  Motorcycle.

• 1:37:43Speaker 03

  Motorcycle sidecar. They got a blimp, blimp, blimp, blimp.

• 1:37:47David Sims?

  There's a whole blimp, blimp, blimpy plot.

• 1:37:50Speaker 03

  Then the, then the, then the, then the planes. This movie is arguably about transportation. You're locking David back in. He's leaning in.

• 1:37:59David Sims?

  I, I hear what you're saying.

• 1:38:00Speaker 03

  Transportation infrastructure. It's a love letter to the history of transportation.

• 1:38:04David Sims?

  And camels. Indy doesn't like camels.

• 1:38:06Speaker 03

  I mean, there is a running theme though of like,

• 1:38:08Griffin Newman?

  Nature's vehicle.

• 1:38:09Speaker 03

  Rats come and help you. Horses come and help you.

• 1:38:12David Sims?

  Do the rats help? I guess they sort of help.

• 1:38:14Speaker 03

  Well, the rats give them the heads up that the fire is on the way, right? The running rats is where they're like, shit, something's wrong.

• 1:38:19Griffin Newman?

  Pointedly not Nazi cooperators.

• 1:38:22Speaker 03

  It is also like, hey, the Nazis have all this tech, but animals like Indy and the Joe.

• 1:38:28David Sims?

  Yeah, he's a more, well, and just like Indy uses a gun. He will use a gun, but it's not really his primary thing.

• 1:38:38Speaker 03

  Inelegant. It's like a blaster.

• 1:38:40David Sims?

  Yeah, random and elegant.

• 1:38:41Speaker 03

  He likes a whip or a lightsaber.

• 1:38:43David Sims?

  Cause when I'm now playing the Indiana Jones video game, which has been

• 1:38:46Speaker 03

  I've been meaning to ask.

• 1:38:47David Sims?

  Which is really, really good.

• 1:38:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:49David Sims?

  Uh, and in that game, you don't have a gun initially. You know, you can get one. It's not like, again, but it's sort of like, right. You're like, no, Indy has like a whip. And he like picks shit up and, you know, improvises, right? Like he'll have a shovel or like a statue or something.

• 1:39:02Speaker 03

  That's what we like about him. He's on, he's on the back of his heels.

• 1:39:04David Sims?

  Right. And, um, you know, he just needs his, uh, his whip, his fedora. I mean, is it a little cute that in the, uh, River Phoenix sequence, it ends with like the sort of Indiana Jones type guy being like, all right, take my hat.

• 1:39:20Speaker 03

  You lost today, kid.

• 1:39:22David Sims?

  You know.

• 1:39:23Speaker 03

  That doesn't mean you have to like it. Is that the quote?

• 1:39:24David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:25Speaker 03

  That one always stuck with me, man.

• 1:39:26David Sims?

  Um, is that a little too cute? Am I just kind of sick of that stuff? Because now it's the backbone of all these legacy sequels.

• 1:39:33Speaker 03

  You not get joy though.

• 1:39:34David Sims?

  No, I enjoyed this movie.

• 1:39:36Speaker 03

  Joy going, oh, but they, they explained the hat.

• 1:39:38David Sims?

  It makes you think a little bit, I mean, about like, I always wanted to know where he got his jacket and, you know.

• 1:39:44Griffin Newman?

  I, I will agree with you that it is the only moment in the sequence that butts up against being a step too cute for me. Where I'm like, the guy doesn't have to hand him the hat. I can be like, and then later he bought a hat because he thought it looked cool on that guy.

• 1:39:58David Sims?

  But Spielberg likes to put a period on things.

• 1:40:00Griffin Newman?

  But I also like that that sequence ends with like, here's this like thrilling adventure. And he's like, starting to develop his love for like, you know, this whole way of life. And the like, you know, finding a different way to express his love and respect for history and these objects. Than his father, who's more purely academic.

• 1:40:19Speaker 03

  Also funny to realize too, and I'm sure this is something that I have a blind spot to. I occasionally don't realize there's already internet dialogues about things, but. He's a really terrible archaeologist. Have we discussed this?

• 1:40:31Griffin Newman?

  This was part of your text.

• 1:40:33Speaker 03

  He's really, really, really bad at being an archaeologist.

• 1:40:37David Sims?

  Uh, what's your, what's your problem?

• 1:40:38Speaker 03

  The cross of Coronado ends with a ship exploding. Like, he goes to, he realizes, hey, we gotta go through this library to get down to this crypt. And he just takes a fucking metal thing and starts pounding.

• 1:40:51David Sims?

  He do smash.

• 1:40:52Speaker 03

  Everything he ever touches in an archaeological sense is lost to time immediately because he explodes it in a ball of fire.

• 1:40:59David Sims?

  He also, there's also a couple of times when he's kinda just like, oh, I found this ancient, or whatever, you know, he's like falling on something. And I'm like, aren't you supposed to kinda treat these things with?

• 1:41:07Speaker 03

  Everything, everything is destroyed.

• 1:41:10David Sims?

  It's the 30s, maybe a lot of this refined, like, oh, no, no, no, put on your gloves, get your little brush out, maybe that came later.

• 1:41:18Speaker 03

  I just feel like everyone in the academic field, when they see Henry Jones Jr.'s name, get attached to a case file, must just go like, ah, we're fucked. Everything we do will be, will crumble to goddamn dust before we can even take a photograph of it, cause this asshole has to smash everything and make it explode.

• 1:41:35Griffin Newman?

  Your text, when you put forth your choice of Last Crusade, my favorite thing about Last Crusade is that Indiana Jones is the worst archaeologist of all time.

• 1:41:44Speaker 03

  The Venice, the Venice crypt scene is, we located one of the brothers, great, the first crusader knight, but before anyone else knows about it, we climb, climb out of the sewage system and it's gone forever.

• 1:41:59Griffin Newman?

  Your follow-up text, within seconds of finding the actual tombs and graves of real Templar knights, they are engulfed in fire bombs.

• 1:42:06David Sims?

  He makes a rubbing, he gets what he needs.

• 1:42:08Speaker 03

  He gets what he needs and then it explodes.

• 1:42:10Griffin Newman?

  Everything he finds is immediately destroyed and it's so funny to watch the movie with that in mind.

• 1:42:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's bad at archaeology. Really bad.

• 1:42:17David Sims?

  Well, it's cause he has Steven Spielberg, like, crafting inventive action sequences around him, okay? He'd love to probably just be chill.

• 1:42:25Speaker 03

  I just don't believe he'd ever get to a professor level at a university behaving this way.

• 1:42:29David Sims?

  People are amassing in his office, waiting for office hours.

• 1:42:33Speaker 03

  I find that to be one of the biggest logical reaches of this entire film.

• 1:42:38David Sims?

  It is funny that it's like, okay, we have the opening sequence and then we tie, you know, we, we jump forward in time and we sort of.

• 1:42:44Griffin Newman?

  I just want to close the loop on that. I just want to say, I like that that sequence, it's like he rushes home, he's got it. He thinks his dad's gonna love it, right? Connery, we don't even show an actor playing young Connery. You hear the voice, he's dismissive. And then it's like cops show up, cops are in bed with these people. They make them give it back. We have six witnesses and he sees this fucking fat cat out the window and it's like, system is rape. Like he's in a microcosm. He's got this excitement of feeling like, I've done it, I've won, and I'm gonna have my dad's respect. And it's like, your dad doesn't give a shit? And this fucking lifestyle is gonna be a grind. It's gonna be uphill battle the rest of your life against these fucking dudes with the nice suits and the money. And then I just like that are hard cuts, hard cuts to him on the ship in the rain.

• 1:43:29Griffin Newman?

  And he's still trying to get this one object from this one guy. It's what makes it feel not disconnected as a mini movie is it's like, oh, the reason we're seeing this now is because this is about how much Indiana Jones can't get over shit.

• 1:43:46Speaker 03

  But you know, in archaeology, if you go to a museum to display something, they're gonna say like, okay, so where did you find it? And he's gonna look him in the eye and go, what? I murdered the entire crew of shit.

• 1:43:58David Sims?

  That's the thing.

• 1:43:58Speaker 03

  I murdered everyone on his ship.

• 1:44:00David Sims?

  He didn't mean to, he just meant to get the cross, but their shit does explode.

• 1:44:03Speaker 03

  Archaeology wise, this is bad form in the field of archaeology.

• 1:44:07David Sims?

  I do.

• 1:44:08Speaker 03

  I murdered a bunch of people and now I have this cross.

• 1:44:10David Sims?

  I do just like that Indy has this basically unseen adventure that we just see the final minutes of on the boat, him getting the cross back, right? He goes back and he is finally like, I'm gonna fucking teach my class. I'm gonna do my office hours, right? Like, I'm not, I'm not no more like pending ventures. Tied that thing off.

• 1:44:31Speaker 03

  Closed loop. I'm gonna have these horny girls.

• 1:44:33David Sims?

  Yeah, take a number. I'll see every single person. It's fine. You know, hey, Donald Elliott, how you doing? High five, like, you know? And gets a weird package, right? And he's like, yeah, weird package, but you know what? No, he's at least, I, it doesn't feel forced to me that Indy is. Trying to be a college professor for a second.

• 1:44:53Speaker 03

  He's so bad at it that there would be, he would honestly probably be, his na- his name and photo would be circulated in, in college archaeology departments worldwide of do not hire this lunatic.

• 1:45:06Griffin Newman?

  His rate my professor score would be in the hot.

• 1:45:09Speaker 03

  Fantastic at loadica- fantastic at locating artifacts. Unfortunately, instantly destroys them every single time.

• 1:45:17Griffin Newman?

  I agree with you that he thinks.

• 1:45:19Speaker 03

  He's bad at it.

• 1:45:20Griffin Newman?

  I can hang up the fucking hat and teach full time and I'm good and I closed the last like big narrative arc in my life, which was getting that fucking cross and now I'm here. If he hadn't gotten the delivery from Donovan, he would have in two weeks started going crazy and being like, give me that fucking whip back. But he's convincing himself he's ready to like move on. And much like he couldn't fucking move on until he closes the loop on the cross thing, getting the Grail Dyer and being like,

• 1:45:48David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:45:48Griffin Newman?

  Fuck, that's my dad's shit.

• 1:45:49David Sims?

  Goes to see Walter Donovan, Walter, and it's like Grail, Grail, Grail. He's like, right, that's my dad's obsession. Call him. I did call him. He's missing. Okay, there's this, he, he doesn't really want to do this. It's a little bit more of the obligation of like, well, if my fucking dad is missing, right, I guess I have to.

• 1:46:09Griffin Newman?

  And I think it's almost less about saving his dad than it is about impressing his dad.

• 1:46:13David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:46:13Griffin Newman?

  Like if I show up, he's gonna be like, good shit kid.

• 1:46:17David Sims?

  Um, so, right, the next sequence is Venice, is the, is the catacombs and the introduction of Elsa.

• 1:46:24Speaker 03

  Great sequence.

• 1:46:24David Sims?

  Doctor Schneider.

• 1:46:26Speaker 03

  Kazim.

• 1:46:27David Sims?

  Kazim is there. Yes, that's true. Great sequence. The rats are the special effect that no one would ever bother with anymore.

• 1:46:36Griffin Newman?

  Yep.

• 1:46:37David Sims?

  Like that would be CGI now. Spielberg gets 2,000 fucking wet rats and makes everyone like deal with them.

• 1:46:44Griffin Newman?

  Ben just parked up. Wait, say more. 2,000 wet rats. Now, has anyone ever attempted that at New York Fashion Week, Ben? Not to force an ambition on you. Yeah, damn. But has anyone ever had 2,000 wet rats on a runway?

• 1:47:00Speaker 02

  I don't know. I think there is maybe some ASPCA issues there.

• 1:47:04David Sims?

  Yeah. And also some, you know, public health hygiene.

• 1:47:08Speaker 02

  Right. Cause they are currently fighting against rats.

• 1:47:11David Sims?

  Right. We don't want like, but maybe he got them all in one place.

• 1:47:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:15David Sims?

  To be dealt with.

• 1:47:16Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:47:17Speaker 03

  Um. Can I say old librarian who thinks his stamp is weirdly loud?

• 1:47:21David Sims?

  I think that is so fun.

• 1:47:24Speaker 03

  This is quality gag.

• 1:47:25Griffin Newman?

  That makes this my favorite of the movie is where I'm like, that is such a grim bit.

• 1:47:29Speaker 02

  I think it's, yeah, I think it's funny.

• 1:47:33David Sims?

  It's a classic rule of three thing you have like, it's funny once. And by the time it's been like extended for a while, we're just like, I'm just like, I love the library.

• 1:47:40Griffin Newman?

  And the choice that it isn't like, oh, this guy's oblivious. He's not hearing the sound because of the stamp. That it starts to become this little tiny mini story of this guy being like, fuck, am I incredible at stamping shit? Also, am I the most powerful man alive?

• 1:47:56Speaker 03

  Also the type of proof that shows why casting directors deserve Oscars because.

• 1:48:01David Sims?

  Yeah, that guy's got a funny face.

• 1:48:02Speaker 03

  You need an appropriately weird looking guy to play a befuddled librarian.

• 1:48:07Griffin Newman?

  And go on this little arc of like, he's starting to feel himself, you know, like this guy needs to be able to really act. He can't just pick a funny looking guy.

• 1:48:15Speaker 03

  That character grew and changed by the end of the film, as much as any other.

• 1:48:19Griffin Newman?

  Goes on a journey.

• 1:48:20David Sims?

  Now, help me out here. They learn, okay, that we, we found the, the tomb. Henry's being held at this castle. Here's the route to the Grail, the diary, all this stuff. This is when Elsa's room has been ransacked, which we later learned she does. Is she doing that just to get an Indy's bed and like kind of win his trust? Or is there like a deeper conspiracy here that I don't?

• 1:48:45Speaker 03

  I think it's, she really wants the Grail diary.

• 1:48:49David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:48:50Speaker 03

  And if she trashes her room too, he'll never suspect that she went and rooted around his room.

• 1:48:55Griffin Newman?

  But I also think it's part of her playbook. She, she wants to seduce him or make him think that he is seducing her. So that there is a guard down perhaps as well. Yeah. I think it's all, all part of the same pie.

• 1:49:10David Sims?

  Sequence, someone underrated, I would say in Indiana Jones.

• 1:49:13Speaker 03

  I agree. Hearing you say you're like, sort of, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but like a little underwhelmed, perhaps compared to Raiders.

• 1:49:22David Sims?

  No, I like this movie a lot.

• 1:49:23Speaker 03

  But I'm like, it's really only the third act that whiffs. Almost everything else is like a fun.

• 1:49:28David Sims?

  You think the third act of this movie whiffs?

• 1:49:30Speaker 03

  Only in the sense that like the grail, the like.

• 1:49:32David Sims?

  I love it. I love it.

• 1:49:34Speaker 03

  I feel like you were the one who was kind of saying like, there's stuff about the end that I don't buy.

• 1:49:38Griffin Newman?

  I think every single set piece is so fucking.

• 1:49:42Speaker 03

  This is fucking great.

• 1:49:43Griffin Newman?

  And they're like five of them.

• 1:49:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:49:45David Sims?

  My whole thing with this movie is that it is basically whatever Spielberg is like Barry Bonds of like a high school game and like where it's like, he can do this shit so good at this point. He's done it. He's, it almost feels like George Lucas is like, make my third indie movie. He's like, bam, I just made it. Fuck you. I can do anything.

• 1:50:02Griffin Newman?

  And he does always the same year, which is not as good, but he's like, not only can I make your third indie movie like that, I can make it and then immediately make another movie.

• 1:50:09David Sims?

  I'll make it in two months, whatever. Oh, like five amazing set pieces. Like, fuck you.

• 1:50:13Griffin Newman?

  He's just becoming a machine at this point.

• 1:50:15David Sims?

  And so there's a, yeah, like a, I, there's just something about this movie. I, I'm always, every time I watch it, I'm like, this is so fun. Everyone's having a good time. Maybe it's just a little weightless to me. I like the Connery stuff, obviously, because it's great. I like Connery. Connery's reaction to the tank going over to the cliff adds like a full star to the movie for me.

• 1:50:40Speaker 03

  And it's.

• 1:50:40David Sims?

  Because I'm like, that's really just enough for me in terms of like, weight, emotional weight. Otherwise, what is this movie about? I don't know.

• 1:50:49Speaker 03

  They got a motorcycle with a sidecar.

• 1:50:52David Sims?

  Rangers of the Lost Ark, I think is so brilliant and scary and like the, the shadow of the Nazis hanging over it in such this interesting way.

• 1:51:00Griffin Newman?

  It's a better movie.

• 1:51:01David Sims?

  It's so cool.

• 1:51:02Griffin Newman?

  And a deeper film.

• 1:51:03David Sims?

  Temple of Doom is like massively flawed. I think so, but it's, this is one of those series where like, I don't remember. Like I saw them all when I was a kid. They were never my movies. Like I was always a Star Wars kid more than like, I was an indie kid, I guess. Um, so I don't have like a deep, like obsessive love of.

• 1:51:20Speaker 03

  I wonder how often, because also I know, I know Temple does not hold up. But Temple was, when I was a kid, Temple was pretty beloved and I have. I have a feeling for people who grew up while these movies were coming out. Being able to look at them in total afterwards is different. I have a feeling that for people who grew up with them, whichever one you saw first is generally your favorite.

• 1:51:45David Sims?

  Yeah, I think that's a classic, right, for these kinds of things.

• 1:51:48Griffin Newman?

  There is a, a whiny piss baby angry nerd YouTuber that I hate watch, who I will not get into any more specifics of. But is Indiana Jones is one of his main beats. And it's one of those things where he's just like, by Last Crusade, they fucked it up. It's Spielberg doing kitty shit. It's lost the stakes of like the adventure serial.

• 1:52:08David Sims?

  There's some argument for.

• 1:52:09Speaker 03

  I don't know though.

• 1:52:10Griffin Newman?

  It's getting too emotional.

• 1:52:11David Sims?

  The edges are a little sanded on it.

• 1:52:12Speaker 03

  I don't like that, even with Star Wars. My, my kid loved the Ewoks.

• 1:52:17David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:18Speaker 03

  He loved the Ewoks.

• 1:52:19David Sims?

  It's the thing of like, the argument of these things are, are for families and kids is fine.

• 1:52:24Speaker 03

  I agree.

• 1:52:25David Sims?

  It's just annoying when then George Lucas is like, every complaint directed him. He's like, move it for kids, move on. And you're like, well, wait a second.

• 1:52:31Griffin Newman?

  For sure. Like this guy, I'm like, you're the age where like you saw Raiders in theaters and it probably blew your minds. And then you were a little older and you saw Temple and you were like, this shit's scary. It's growing up with me. And then by the time you see Last Crusade, you still fucking love Indiana Jones. But for the first time, you're maybe a little bit older than the movie. And he like throws it down a well and he talks about, he spends so much time talking about, like how they fucked up the Indiana Jones franchise and how it's his most beloved character. And I'm like, you like two out of the five movies. At this point, you dislike more Indiana Jones than you like. Like you just have to accept it. Like you can just say, I love these two films. But at a certain point, if you're fighting against that much of the franchise, you're denying what it is.

• 1:53:15David Sims?

  Enjoy, right? Why, why even care?

• 1:53:17Speaker 03

  The castle is great.

• 1:53:19Griffin Newman?

  It's great.

• 1:53:19David Sims?

  The castle's great.

• 1:53:20Speaker 03

  He sets the fire. His kid doesn't know, they realize that they slept with the same girl.

• 1:53:25Griffin Newman?

  But the fucking Scooby Doo revolving door.

• 1:53:28David Sims?

  That's great, but like Ford doing the Scottish accent. You know, Ford having a little bit of, you know, like, character fun, right?

• 1:53:37Speaker 03

  But then also the guy calling it out, if you're a Scottish lord, I'm a, what's blah, blah, blah. Like it's fun.

• 1:53:43Griffin Newman?

  Which also much like Spielberg, it's like Ford in between these movies did some more grown up shit. You feel him being like, you know what? It would be fun to just punch some guys and do some silly voices. I want to be Indiana Jones again.

• 1:53:58Griffin Newman?

  Jumping ahead a little bit, but another what I assume is a stop word line that I think is incredibly good is when they're fighting about Indiana Jones's feeling of like indifference to him, that he felt as a child, right? And like his refusal to engage after your mom left, all this sort of shit.

• 1:54:15Speaker 03

  We haven't talked in 20 years because of you.

• 1:54:17Griffin Newman?

  And Connery, one of his defensive lines is, well, you moved out just as you were starting to get interesting.

• 1:54:23David Sims?

  To get interesting, yeah.

• 1:54:24Griffin Newman?

  This thing of like,

• 1:54:25David Sims?

  It's a bit of a brutal line.

• 1:54:26Griffin Newman?

  I have no interest in talking to children. And the second you start to become an adult, you moved out. And it's like, yeah, that's how it fucking works. You didn't want to be a dad. You didn't do the work.

• 1:54:36Speaker 03

  There's also something to be said, like, I think that there is truth to the kid's perspective of that, but I also think there is something quietly super fucking real about you understand your dad more when you've been through some stuff. And when you were a kid and you get old enough to understand, like especially back then, historically, like maybe a dad was gone all the time. And that's the reason you had food and a house to sleep in. And a lot of families need the dad back then.

• 1:55:09David Sims?

  But the dad clearly, he didn't deal with the loss of his wife very well.

• 1:55:13Speaker 03

  No, and like, but that emotionally, like, I don't know. And some of this obviously relates to conversations I had with my dad. But I'm like, I remember having a conversation with, my dad once asked me, my dad once said to me, I always liked calling you when we moved houses because you and I were really good about packing up a truck. And I remember saying to him, yeah, I remember during one of those days, it was the first time I felt like I could let my guard down and really like talk to you. And seeing, my dad had this heartbroken look on his face. And he's like, wait, you were almost 30 at the time that you're talking about. And I was like, yeah. And he was like, you didn't feel like you could let your guard down around me until you were 30?

• 1:55:57Speaker 03

  And it was heartbreaking. But when I watched that moment of him being like, you were just getting interesting. I'm like, I don't excuse any of it in Henry Jones senior or my father, but I'm like,

• 1:56:09Speaker 03

  Sometime like that's real, that's real, that's so real.

• 1:56:15Griffin Newman?

  This is why also the Eskimo Brothers thing, even if it comes out of like a horny, I still need to be an alpha Connery note, and it's mostly played as a joke. There's something about this movie in the second half, forcing them to become contemporaries.

• 1:56:27David Sims?

  That's why it works.

• 1:56:29Speaker 03

  That's real shit.

• 1:56:30Griffin Newman?

  Cause it's just like, he's seeing things from a different vantage point, cause he and his dad are now doing the exact same shit in lockstep. They're on the same adventure, they're in the same action sequences, they're after the same goal.

• 1:56:41Speaker 03

  They're keeping each other alive.

• 1:56:42Griffin Newman?

  And he's like, I'm nothing like you. I spent my entire life trying to be that fucking guy named Fedora on the train. And it's like, no, you're doing my shit in different clothes.

• 1:56:52David Sims?

  Little bit, um, and I think, uh, senior comes to take his son more seriously because he watches him in action mode, which is something he doesn't do, right? Like senior doesn't do action mode, he's watching his son actually be in action mode.

• 1:57:07Griffin Newman?

  Lovely moment of Ford watching Connery chase the birds away with his umbrella.

• 1:57:14Speaker 03

  The birds is a really fascinating moment.

• 1:57:17Griffin Newman?

  And being like, my dad's just some guy, like, I feel like I've heard you talk about a lot in different circumstances, your realization at some age as a nerd, that your father knew the names of the members of the Fantastic Four. And being like, my dad is like a serious grown up who has a job and has no interest in my like childish bullshit. And then being like, not only were you into these characters when you were my age, you still remember what their names are? This is in your head, you know? There's like that part of it of being like, he's seeing kind of the little boy version of his dad in that moment.

• 1:57:54David Sims?

  I think the hat's just crucial too.

• 1:57:56Speaker 03

  I think, I think.

• 1:57:57Griffin Newman?

  And for the character?

• 1:57:58David Sims?

  Yeah, that Henry Jones senior has such a silly hat.

• 1:58:01Griffin Newman?

  His look is incredible.

• 1:58:03David Sims?

  Being like, don't forget my hat, in the same way that his son does, but his son has a cool hat.

• 1:58:08Speaker 03

  I think what I'm realizing as we talk it out loud is, and some of this is Sean Connery's performance, some of this is in the script, but I'm, I, I go, I will say, and David, I respect your opinions on film far more than my own, but I go, the dad, son stuff in this movie, I think actually does make it. Significantly more than just it moves from set piece to set piece in a way that.

• 1:58:31David Sims?

  But that doesn't start till halfway through. Once he shows up, the movie is.

• 1:58:35Griffin Newman?

  But I, but I like that swerve. I mean, it's like if the second half of this movie were a flipped mirror image of the first half and the dad thing was not part of it, it would be like, yeah, this is just Spielberg showing off that he can do great sequences. I do like that the movie has this kind of like sneaky turn into thematic weight and the weight is characterization, which is basically the thing that is avoided in the first two Indiana Jones movies. There was characterization, but we're not really digging into the psychology of Indiana Jones. He's a character defined by action and there's the sense of his relationships to these people, but it's like, I'm just fucking moving forward. And his dad's the only person who can get him to stop and have to like reckon with shit. And it's why I like starting with him as a little

• 1:59:18Griffin Newman?

  kid again, because you're just like, this guy isn't mythical. He's a dude. And like, everything that's cool about him is like all of us, a direct result of who he was raised by, right? For both good and bad.

• 1:59:31Speaker 03

  It also recontextualizes every other Indiana Jones movie now with the thing of like, this guy's chasing his dad. And after you watch this one, you know that when you re-watch the other ones.

• 1:59:41David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, it's certainly, especially Raiders. Temple of Doom is a strange movie to think about in any sense, but you know, Indy's helping these kids in temple, I guess. There's the somewhat fatherly thing with him in Short Round, you know, like.

• 1:59:55Speaker 03

  I'm not, I'm not saying that all of a sudden this turns into like a psychological breakdown of the characters that never got the credit that's due, but I do think this movie is more than set piece to set piece because of that exact stuff.

• 2:00:07David Sims?

  Now, I think once Sean Connery shows up, it's, yes.

• 2:00:10Griffin Newman?

  I agree with what you're saying for the prism of like Spielberg is just a few years away from leveling up to being able to tell really complicated, mature, adult psychoemotional stories. And like in that context, you're just like, aren't you ready to move on from this? Even if this film has like emotional weight and something to say about like fathers and sons and whatever, it's still doing that in a very pop candy coated way. And like, aren't we ready to like level up to a certain degree? But I think this is like, the last time for me that he kinda has this right balance of doing this.

• 2:00:46Speaker 03

  There's a moment to kill a mockingbird. I believe it does not make the film, but where Atticus shoots this rabid dog. And in the process, one of his glasses lenses breaks and then he like

• 2:00:57David Sims?

  Yeah, right.

• 2:00:58Speaker 03

  reaches down with his heel and just grinds out the glass. So it's not sharp and nobody gets cuts on it. Gets cut on it. He walks away and Jem is amazed. And he's like, I can't believe my dad was the one that you guys all had take the shot. And one of the neighbors is like, do you not know that your daddy is the best shot in the county? And everyone's known that for fucking decades.

• 2:01:17David Sims?

  And it's, and the sheriff is specifically a bad shot.

• 2:01:20Speaker 03

  The sheriff is like, we need Atticus. And they're like, why do you want our stuffy lawyer dad to do this?

• 2:01:24David Sims?

  He's like fucking Mr. Gone.

• 2:01:26Speaker 03

  Did you not know your dad is a fucking bad? And that Indiana, like The Last Crusade is a movie length exploration of the idea of like, hey, all this shit you don't know about your dad might just fill in some of the emotional gaps that a whole generation of fathers ravaged their sons with.

• 2:01:45Griffin Newman?

  And what you just said will basically always get me. Like even in the worst executions of that, when I don't respect it intellectually, I'd be like, they are playing with like powerful materials there. It's always going to stir a little something in me. And like being able to do it pretty well in a movie that also delivers good fucking bits. And like five of the best directed action sequences you've ever seen. I'm just like, yeah, this is like a perfect movie movie for me.

• 2:02:13Speaker 03

  That, listen, Field of Dreams, them playing catch.

• 2:02:17Griffin Newman?

  We were talking about right before this record.

• 2:02:19Speaker 03

  Never not make me cry.

• 2:02:20Griffin Newman?

  Yep. And I couldn't give less of a shit about baseball. And yet I watched that and I'm like, baseball's the most important thing that's ever existed. You know, when they're throwing the ball around, I'm like, absolutely baseball.

• 2:02:32Speaker 03

  Archie Moonlight Graham is the Fisto of Field of Dreams.

• 2:02:35Griffin Newman?

  Now that is a good take that I have no objection to.

• 2:02:39David Sims?

  I think Archie Moonlight Graham is more important than Kip Fisto.

• 2:02:42Griffin Newman?

  What the fuck are you s-

• 2:02:44Speaker 03

  That's so mean to Kip Fisto.

• 2:02:47Griffin Newman?

  Is actually the most offensive word you could have used in that sentence.

• 2:02:50David Sims?

  My whole problem with Kip Fisto is that, that Palpatine just.

• 2:02:55Speaker 03

  The whole problem with Kit Fisto is that there are no problems with that character.

• 2:02:59Griffin Newman?

  Way to start.

• 2:03:00Speaker 03

  The whole, the only problem with Kit Fisto is that characters should have weaknesses and flaws, and he doesn't.

• 2:03:06David Sims?

  But that's, that's why I just hate, I just, I mean, I hate Revenge of the Sith. I always will. I won't be, you know, turned around by people being like, oh, it's about the fall of Rome and shit. And I'm like, yeah, I know it is, but it's not a good version of all this.

• 2:03:20Speaker 03

  David, I'm just gonna give you some advice. Don't go on Blank Check and say you hate an individual Star Wars movie because it could turn into a thing for you.

• 2:03:26David Sims?

  I have and will.

• 2:03:27Speaker 03

  Turns into a thing for you.

• 2:03:29David Sims?

  But like, you know, Mace Windu just shows up and he's like, I'll bring three of my best guys.

• 2:03:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, the Jedi wrecking crew.

• 2:03:36David Sims?

  Exactly. And Palpatine, who is one billion years old.

• 2:03:40Griffin Newman?

  For the end of this episode, by the way.

• 2:03:41David Sims?

  Like this. All right. All right. Well, then let's move on to the Zeppelin scene.

• 2:03:44Speaker 03

  Would you not watch a whole Archie Moonlight grand prequel to Field of Dreams?

• 2:03:47David Sims?

  Sounds pretty cool.

• 2:03:49Griffin Newman?

  And do you know that Archie Graham Moonlight can hold his breath underwater and he can smell fear?

• 2:03:56Speaker 03

  And he's gotta be getting home so Alicia doesn't think he's got himself a girlfriend.

• 2:04:01David Sims?

  The Zeppelin scene.

• 2:04:03Speaker 03

  Great.

• 2:04:04David Sims?

  Anytime I see a Zeppelin, which is not that often in a movie.

• 2:04:08Speaker 03

  Not a lot.

• 2:04:08David Sims?

  You are kind of like, it's too bad this didn't work out because it does kind of seem nice, right? Where they're just like, it's just like a

• 2:04:15Griffin Newman?

  What a great future.

• 2:04:16David Sims?

  Big ass restaurant, essentially.

• 2:04:17Griffin Newman?

  What a nice thing to see up in the sky. There's rumors they're coming back.

• 2:04:21Speaker 02

  Delivery service. And that's like a reminder of like, wait, this is actually the technology that there's a reason why we don't utilize it anymore.

• 2:04:29Speaker 03

  There's rumors they're bringing them back.

• 2:04:31Griffin Newman?

  I think it's time.

• 2:04:32Speaker 03

  I think it's time.

• 2:04:33Griffin Newman?

  I think it's time.

• 2:04:33Speaker 03

  Environmental impact for short flights. Let's go back to Zeppelins.

• 2:04:36Speaker 02

  But aren't we running out of helium? Isn't that a thing?

• 2:04:39Griffin Newman?

  It's a great question. Which is gonna, I mean, just be fucking murder for the industry of doing funny voices.

• 2:04:45Speaker 02

  I know.

• 2:04:46Griffin Newman?

  We talk about this in next week's episode.

• 2:04:49David Sims?

  But I think they just don't go that fast, right? Isn't that part of the problem with Zeppelins?

• 2:04:54Speaker 03

  Great. Let's slow down. Let's enjoy ourselves. Can we just turn off our phones and float in the sky?

• 2:05:00Griffin Newman?

  We're all so addicted to our phones. I say, as I spin the Disney emoji blitz wheel on two different devices.

• 2:05:06Speaker 03

  There's a very

• 2:05:07Griffin Newman?

  So I can get double gems.

• 2:05:08Speaker 03

  I would say there is a very funny, consistent thing that I'm not nitpicking in Last Crusade, though, but it shows up in the Zeppelin scene very prominently is a bunch of things that are so joyous. Funny, awesome moments where the aftermath of them just like the.

• 2:05:25Griffin Newman?

  It's the clerks bit of like, you think about how many contractors are dying.

• 2:05:29Speaker 03

  The pacing of the aftermath doesn't add up. My point being like, they punched the Nazi, they throw him, he lands on the big pile of luggage. No tickets. Everyone takes those tickets. Fantastic, funny gag.

• 2:05:40David Sims?

  Very funny.

• 2:05:41Speaker 03

  But the idea that the Zeppelin just then slowly floats away and no Nazis react to this high ranking Nazi land.

• 2:05:50David Sims?

  I mean, look.

• 2:05:50Speaker 03

  There's a few moments of that in this movie. Again, like the boat explodes and then you're left to go like, okay, and I guess Indiana just grabs that little life.

• 2:05:58David Sims?

  The Zeppelin is tiny.

• 2:05:59Speaker 03

  Swims back to shore.

• 2:06:00David Sims?

  They do eventually, of course. Oh shit, we're turning around, we're back to Berlin. Yes, maybe is a little silly, like, I guess we should just use this plane.

• 2:06:09Griffin Newman?

  I said that Spielberg never gets this balance right again, which of course is me realizing I stupidly am ignoring Jurassic Park, right? Which is truly the last time he gets the balance right. But that is a movie where to this point of what you're saying, I think he's starting to realize it here. He's like, my understanding of like movie logic and spatial geography and what the audience sees and doesn't, what I'm like, like a fucking magician, I'm making them look here and not think about this. He's starting to like fuck around and be like, I can put together a sequence that doesn't actually make any sense and not make people realize that it doesn't make any sense.

• 2:06:44Speaker 03

  You won't give up.

• 2:06:46Griffin Newman?

  And Jurassic has a ton of that, which is like very skillful shit.

• 2:06:50Speaker 03

  And one of these things too, that it's like, I re-watch it now by myself. And then you realize part of the pacing of that feeling weird is because that motherfucker knew the crowd would have been cheering.

• 2:07:02Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:07:03Speaker 03

  That a theater full of people is laughing and clapping at the.

• 2:07:05Griffin Newman?

  He's so good at this. And if they're laughing, they're not going to think about the fact where it's like, well, wait a second, the Zeppelin is still only five feet above the sky. They'd have 20 Nazi dudes jumping.

• 2:07:15Speaker 03

  Doesn't matter.

• 2:07:16Griffin Newman?

  Right, doesn't matter.

• 2:07:17Speaker 03

  He was pacing it for the fucking applause break that he knew he got.

• 2:07:20Griffin Newman?

  It's like hamburger had just performed.

• 2:07:24Griffin Newman?

  The crowd is going wild.

• 2:07:25David Sims?

  This is what the tank thing is too, where. There, I guess there will come a point, I guess, in any, you know, where these action movies that these, those kinds of sequences are previs so well that it almost feels too easy, right? Like, oh, he ducks just when he put, you know, like, but that's, but the tank sequence, you're just kind of like, I, I gotta just give it up. Like, you know, like, the longer it goes on, and you know, like, yeah.

• 2:07:49Griffin Newman?

  This thing that still makes Spielberg better at this than anyone else who has ever lived is the exact thing that the sort of like obsessive prevising before the script is done actually fights against, which is just like, what are the character moments? What are the moments in this that are gonna pop as like a laugh? And it's not because it's a dumb one-off joke. It's something that surprises you, where someone does something differently than you expect. It reveals something different about themselves. These sequences have their own internal like arcs and peaks and valleys, like they're symphonic. And he knows, he knows, like, I gotta hold this shot for 30 seconds because if I do something right now, the audience is gonna be riding such a high from the last thing, they won't be able to process this. His mastery is just insane at this point.

• 2:08:34Speaker 03

  I had a very weird thought that ties into this, which I think you guys will enjoy, which is, I've been to Hollywood Studios many times.

• 2:08:44Griffin Newman?

  You're saying the Disney park?

• 2:08:45Speaker 03

  The Disney park.

• 2:08:46Griffin Newman?

  With the, with the Indiana Jones?

• 2:08:48Speaker 03

  The Indiana Jones stunt spectacular.

• 2:08:50Griffin Newman?

  Which is a great show.

• 2:08:51Speaker 03

  It's a great little show, but it does this funny thing.

• 2:08:54Griffin Newman?

  Probably my favorite play.

• 2:08:55Speaker 03

  Edward Albee's Indiana Jones stunt spectacular.

• 2:09:00Griffin Newman?

  Stopper quietly wrote all the dialogue in Last Crusade, and Albee quietly wrote all the dialogue in the Indiana Jones stunt spectacular.

• 2:09:06Speaker 03

  But they do that funny thing, which when I was a kid, I loved, which is like, they presuppose that you're sitting in these bleachers watching the actual filming of a move of an action sequence in Indiana Jones. And then I get old and I wind up being lucky enough to be an actor who has been on some film sets, largely cut out of films as our dash, our slash blankies has, has danced on.

• 2:09:28Griffin Newman?

  But cut out of some big ass movies.

• 2:09:31Speaker 03

  But cut out of some huge movies. Also, proud of my career. Anyway.

• 2:09:34Griffin Newman?

  And have remained in the cut on some great films.

• 2:09:37Speaker 03

  Thank you so much. Making a joke, referencing my past chicanery on your show, but.

• 2:09:41Griffin Newman?

  By the way, same thing with me. My biggest credits on paper of the biggest movies I've been in are all the ones I've been cut out of. It's, it's how it fucking goes.

• 2:09:48Speaker 03

  Also a sign of a quality career. It's fine. We're workers. We're workers.

• 2:09:51Griffin Newman?

  We're workers.

• 2:09:52Speaker 03

  But. You go to it as an actor to the stunt show and you're like, ah, that's not how movies really work. And it's silly. They're pretending this is a movie. And then you re-watch an Indiana Jones movie and you're like, I bet Steven Spielberg was running this set way closer to the actual tender and tone of the Indiana Jones stunt spectacular at Hollywood Studios than any other movie.

• 2:10:13David Sims?

  It does seem like he actually runs a set that cleanly, especially again, people, there are just no complaints from this. Now Raiders, that was hard. Everyone gets dysentery. It's crazy shit.

• 2:10:23Speaker 03

  Chaws was hard.

• 2:10:24David Sims?

  By now, it's kind of just like, nah, he's just.

• 2:10:26Speaker 03

  I bet there are fucking crazy amounts of trucks and scaffolding and cranes and shit and things flipping up and people diving off of buildings and doing flips. Like all that shit they show at the stunt spectacular. I'm like, I am willing to buy into the kayfabe that a Steven Spielberg set is actually as fun and crazy as that stunt spectacular.

• 2:10:47Griffin Newman?

  That's kind of all you hear from people who work on his movies.

• 2:10:51David Sims?

  I do think, I mentioned it already, but I do think, you know, Connery's reaction to the tank going over, the way he just like simply and quickly plays.

• 2:10:59Griffin Newman?

  He knows.

• 2:10:59David Sims?

  The entire.

• 2:11:01Speaker 03

  After so much good action though, right? The brothers of the crucible sword have come back. There's people fighting on the tank and on top of the tank.

• 2:11:09David Sims?

  The tracks.

• 2:11:10Speaker 03

  Being rescued from the tank treads, Indy holding his dad's leg with the whip as his dad bounced on the tank treads.

• 2:11:17Griffin Newman?

  Dude's literally riding shotgun in this entire action sequence and he's like, yawn, who cares?

• 2:11:22Speaker 03

  The crazy tank guy.

• 2:11:23Griffin Newman?

  This is children's.

• 2:11:24Speaker 03

  You also mentioned before, like the Indiana Jones habit of just like, this guy is the blank, the tank pilot with that, with the crazy leather hat and goggle. Like it's, it's so fun.

• 2:11:35David Sims?

  He just didn't think his son was gonna die. And obviously he doesn't die, but like Connery has that, just that moment of like.

• 2:11:41Speaker 03

  And he convinces us. He convinces us.

• 2:11:43David Sims?

  Right. Like it's actually, fuck, I actually didn't get to tell him like all these things I meant to tell him.

• 2:11:48Griffin Newman?

  Which here's another thing that quietly belies.

• 2:11:50David Sims?

  It's taken five minutes.

• 2:11:51Griffin Newman?

  Him being so shocked at the idea that Indiana Jones died, does quietly speak to a level of respect he has for what his son does.

• 2:12:02David Sims?

  He would never have said, oh wow, right?

• 2:12:03Griffin Newman?

  Because he's like, I know my son goes off on all these stupid fucking adventures and he's going through like pitfalls and traps and shit. I never worry he's gonna die.

• 2:12:12David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:12:13Griffin Newman?

  I know.

• 2:12:14David Sims?

  That's why I've been putting off the five minutes.

• 2:12:16Griffin Newman?

  Great at being Indiana Jones. I hear he's off in some fucking Peruvian like booby trapped, you know, temple.

• 2:12:23Speaker 03

  Nonsense, yeah.

• 2:12:24Griffin Newman?

  I don't think I should have called him and said, hey, I love you before he goes off.

• 2:12:29David Sims?

  So that all happens. Now to me, the emotional arcs of this movie are pretty much resolved. And it's time for a wonderful, like LucasArts video game point and click adventure, like

• 2:12:42Speaker 03

  In that crazy ass.

• 2:12:43David Sims?

  sequence, which is the Grail.

• 2:12:44Griffin Newman?

  And my counterpoint to that.

• 2:12:45David Sims?

  The puzzles of the Grail and then the emotional puzzle of the night, you know.

• 2:12:49Griffin Newman?

  My counterpoint to that, which is what I said earlier, which is him having to do it alone and revealing how much he has ingested of what his father's, of his father's work does add a new wrinkle on to the emotional closure. I agree with you that it's like they've gotten to the place where they can admit to each other that they love each other. There is still this one added step of like, I'm more like my dad than I realized. Every, all of his life's work is in my bones.

• 2:13:15Speaker 03

  And every kid, and I felt this with my dad. Spielberg clearly felt it with his, just that feeling of like, this sting of like, why didn't my dad ever slow down and have that five minute conversation with me is also coupled with, why does every son assume that his father hasn't actually thought hard about who he is and why he's behaving and how it relates to his son? And you're like, ooh. And then to immediately follow it up with like, he just fought a tank by hand, saved you in the process, fell off a fucking cliff. And it's like, you have the one moment of emotion that you share and then he collapses from exhaustion and you go, no, get the fuck

• 2:13:59Speaker 03

  up. We gotta get back to work. We're almost at the end is like, god damn. And it's right back into it.

• 2:14:04Griffin Newman?

  And the other flip.

• 2:14:05Speaker 03

  But now we understand each other.

• 2:14:06Griffin Newman?

  Is like, the dad has to go through his arc of like, fuck. What would my regrets have been if that was the last time I ever saw you? Now, Indiana Jones is on the flip side of that, which is like, his dad's been fucking shot. And the stakes of this now, like, fucking Tomb Raider level he has to go through is, if I fuck this up and I don't do it in time, my dad's dead.

• 2:14:26Speaker 03

  And we're now at the stage of life where the son takes care of the fuck.

• 2:14:29Griffin Newman?

  Correct, thank you!

• 2:14:31David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:14:31Griffin Newman?

  Now the son has to move forward past his father.

• 2:14:34David Sims?

  Breaks, breaks, breaks, breaks. You are never, ever, ever, ever concerned that he's not gonna, he's gonna do it.

• 2:14:37Griffin Newman?

  As an audience member? No, but those are the stakes for Indiana Jones, the character. That's why he still has unresolved shit.

• 2:14:43David Sims?

  It's fine. You know he's gonna do it.

• 2:14:45Speaker 03

  He has to trust his dad. He has to trust his dad.

• 2:14:49David Sims?

  He has to take the leap of faith and all that. Which what amuses me so much is I think all that stuff is great. The, you know, the puzzle solving stuff is so cool. The, the, the floor with the Jehovah, the, the leap of faith is the coolest thing.

• 2:15:01Griffin Newman?

  The misspelling.

• 2:15:03David Sims?

  Uh, what's, oh, just the, right.

• 2:15:06David Sims?

  Uh, but the, the dodging the blades. Then he gets to the grave. Now, let's discuss this sequence. It's a, it's a fountain or whatever, a pool, a pool, a thing of water.

• 2:15:15Speaker 03

  A thing. The holy water thing you see at the front of every church.

• 2:15:18David Sims?

  Yeah, it's a knight in knightly armor, chainmail. It's.

• 2:15:22Griffin Newman?

  Old ass dude.

• 2:15:24Speaker 03

  This motherfucker has been there for 700 years.

• 2:15:27David Sims?

  Been there 700 years?

• 2:15:28Griffin Newman?

  Not even a crossword puzzle.

• 2:15:30Speaker 03

  Magazine. This guy can't do Wordle every day.

• 2:15:33David Sims?

  I had the same thought.

• 2:15:34Speaker 03

  700 fucking years he's been sitting around and these assholes ruin it.

• 2:15:39David Sims?

  If he had Wordle, how many times would he have gone through like all of the word? Right? Like, there's like a limited amount of Wordle words, like 55 years.

• 2:15:49Griffin Newman?

  This guy's getting like Queen B every day.

• 2:15:51Speaker 03

  700 years.

• 2:15:53Griffin Newman?

  He's getting spanogram and strands.

• 2:15:55Speaker 03

  Eating whatever they can eat. He's fucking, really jerking off relentlessly. He doesn't have fucking top ramen.

• 2:16:02David Sims?

  Do you think he jerks off?

• 2:16:03Speaker 03

  This guy!

• 2:16:05David Sims?

  Do you think he jerks off? Wait, here's, here's my question.

• 2:16:07Speaker 03

  He's a religious man.

• 2:16:09David Sims?

  Do you think every day he picks a new cup to jerk off to? Cause like, that's the only thing he can look at?

• 2:16:13Speaker 03

  This fucking guy for 7, they say it's 700 years of silence sitting there.

• 2:16:20Griffin Newman?

  Guys, I'm sorry. Breaking news.

• 2:16:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:16:23Griffin Newman?

  I was just sent two texts from my father. This is breaking news. Do you know what I'm about to say?

• 2:16:28Speaker 03

  He's gonna tell you he loves you for the first time.

• 2:16:30Griffin Newman?

  This is big. From Peter Newman, Deadline Link, Draft Day Feature to be adapted for TV.

• 2:16:37David Sims?

  I did, I did, I did just, uh, yep.

• 2:16:40Griffin Newman?

  With a basketball twist, and my dad says, "Time to bring back Rick the Intro."

• 2:16:44David Sims?

  I mean, get him in there. Is, is, uh...

• 2:16:47Griffin Newman?

  You didn't tell me this fucking news and you read it?

• 2:16:49David Sims?

  It just, it just noticed it.

• 2:16:50Griffin Newman?

  Can't trust this guy.

• 2:16:52David Sims?

  Is Rick all grown up?

• 2:16:53Griffin Newman?

  These were the questions I hope they're asking.

• 2:16:56David Sims?

  Is it, um, you know, is this like, uh, the fucking Suits LA? Where it's like, "Oh, it's Suits LA. Does it have any of the guys from Suits?" And they're like, they're like, "No, it's just like a legal show set in LA. We're just calling it Suits." Like, is Costner involved? You know, like, do we have, you know?

• 2:17:10Griffin Newman?

  I don't know. Let me be the one fucking legacy character.

• 2:17:13Speaker 03

  I never thought I'd say this, but guys, we're at the Grail Night scene and we need to focus.

• 2:17:17Griffin Newman?

  This is what I wanted to say. I thought the thing I've been promising to recite back to you was in text. Then I looked, the text exchange was the "He's a bad archaeologist." The thing you said was said in person, I believe, at the, the Gethard 10th Anniversary Show.

• 2:17:36Speaker 03

  The reunion show.

• 2:17:37Griffin Newman?

  The reunion show, which was such a wonderful night. You said this to me backstage where I said like, "Hey, and we'll do Last Crusade in like a couple months."

• 2:17:43Speaker 03

  10th Anniversary Group, in 15.

• 2:17:44Griffin Newman?

  15. You're right. This show's 10, that's 15. So, excuse me while I paraphrase this.

• 2:17:50Speaker 03

  This fucking Grail Night.

• 2:17:51Griffin Newman?

  But you said to me something to the effect of, "I think one of the funniest bits of all time is this guy being in this fucking cage." For like 700 years with nothing, and Indiana Jones showing up and immediately fucking up his entire life.

• 2:18:09Speaker 03

  Just like he fucked up the catacombs under Venice. He fucked up the Cross of Cord.

• 2:18:12Griffin Newman?

  But it's so personal for this guy.

• 2:18:14Speaker 03

  Fucking guy has for 700 years has been like, "Where's the next knight that's gonna come take over?" Indiana Jones comes, he doesn't even allow the guy to finish explaining, "Hey man, finally, you don't look like a knight." And Indiana Jones straight up cuts him off and is like, "Eh, not my thing, man. That's not really how this... And then before he can finish his sentence, the Nazis come, picked the wrong cup. That guy turns fucking a Beetlejuice character. It's weirdly scary.

• 2:18:45David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:18:46Speaker 03

  Then Elsa is all fucked up. She drops the thing because she just straight up can't even listen for 10 fucking her ADHD. He's like, just don't take it past the thing. She takes it past the thing. We got the earthquakes. And then the, I think the common, one of the saddest and also funniest moments in maybe all of cinematic history is that guy gives a sad little wave.

• 2:19:09David Sims?

  Bye.

• 2:19:09Speaker 03

  He's been waiting 700 years and two minutes later. This asshole Indiana Jones find it. This movie has three beats. The cross of Coronado, he makes everything explode. The fucking Templar Knights grave, he makes it explode. He finally finds the Holy Grail. He fucks that up too.

• 2:19:30Griffin Newman?

  In your words, maybe the funniest bit of all time.

• 2:19:33Speaker 03

  That little wave that night gives is so sad and so funny.

• 2:19:38David Sims?

  What is happening to that night? Do you think?

• 2:19:42Speaker 03

  He wants, he's been praying for death.

• 2:19:45David Sims?

  Well, no, of course I know, but I'm saying like the, because of all the stuff that happened.

• 2:19:50Speaker 03

  For like 694 years.

• 2:19:52Griffin Newman?

  We, we are to assume that he has drank from the correct cup.

• 2:19:57Speaker 03

  And he gets to live forever.

• 2:19:58Griffin Newman?

  Earlier and he gets to live forever.

• 2:20:00Speaker 03

  And now, now then another night is here to take over. And he can finally get the sweet release of a well-earned death.

• 2:20:07Griffin Newman?

  Move on.

• 2:20:08David Sims?

  Here's my question. Indy comes in, all right, and let's just go through what happens. Indy comes in.

• 2:20:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:20:13David Sims?

  Uh, right. He's kind of like, I don't know, man. I kind of just need to save my dad. Nazis come in. This is a moment I just think we have to touch on. The night's like, okay, well, choose a fucking cup.

• 2:20:24Griffin Newman?

  Just texting my manager, the draft day link.

• 2:20:26David Sims?

  Elsa is like, let me choose. Julian Glover is like, yeah, sounds good.

• 2:20:31Speaker 03

  She does it on purpose, right?

• 2:20:32David Sims?

  That I assume what she's doing is in on.

• 2:20:35Speaker 03

  They make eye contact.

• 2:20:36David Sims?

  Yeah, yeah. So nonetheless, how fucking dumb is Julian Glover? That he's like, yeah, you know what? Actually, you pick. And she's like, uh, literally just goes like this one. Like she doesn't even walk the length of the cups. She just kind of grabs one.

• 2:20:50Speaker 03

  This is my point, though. It's like he's, he is just some dumb dork.

• 2:20:55David Sims?

  No, no.

• 2:20:55Speaker 03

  Could have walked over to that old ass night, grabbed his nuts and twisted him and been like, tell me which one.

• 2:21:00David Sims?

  Ask a couple of questions. Just take a cursory glance.

• 2:21:03Speaker 03

  Weird old man.

• 2:21:04David Sims?

  Instead, he's like, oh, it looks great. It's gold.

• 2:21:06Speaker 03

  You're a Kruger syndrome. This guy thinks he knows everything. We're blowing past the part where Indiana Jones is like, who are you? And he's like, I'm one of three brothers, and Indiana Jones straight up is like, oh, so you're 700 years old? Anyway, man, I'm kind of not into this.

• 2:21:23Speaker 03

  This is not really my scene. I love this movie so much, but the end is like.

• 2:21:28David Sims?

  Indy has the, I need to save my dad.

• 2:21:30Speaker 03

  This act, this that be sort of is like playing mousetrap. It's everything is like now this, now this, now this.

• 2:21:37David Sims?

  To be fair, Spielberg said when Lucas initially pitched him the Holy Grail, Spielberg was like, is there anything fun you can do with the ending of the Holy Grail? Like, is there enough, is there like a special effects thing you can do? Like what's the, he was a little concerned, like, is it a little boring at the end? I think that this ending is so iconic and well regarded. They figured it out. And obviously the special effects thing they figured out was the rapid aging is cool, right? Like that will do that. But everything that's, it's just like, the only time pressure is on Indy, which is I want to save my dad. There's no time pressure on Julian Glover. He could just like really kind of be like, I'm going to take a look at every single cup.

• 2:22:16Speaker 03

  Just go save your dad. So I know which one is the right one.

• 2:22:20David Sims?

  An option for him. There's a lot of options for him. Anyway.

• 2:22:23Speaker 03

  Some would actually say that's why he shot the dad.

• 2:22:26David Sims?

  But he's just like glug, glug, glug, Beetlejuice. I love it. I mean, I love it. I love him turning into Beetlejuice.

• 2:22:33Speaker 03

  Let's remember this whole thing was he was the most pure one. So his two brother, he was like, they failed. Goodbye, my brother. Brothers, we will never see each other again.

• 2:22:41Griffin Newman?

  Survival of the fittest. He is the one.

• 2:22:43Speaker 03

  He assumes I'm the first link in a chain where other knights will achieve this, take over, and it will last for eternity. And instead, the first guy who shows up fucks it all up. And he just goes, I guess I could have been fucking eating cheeseburgers for the past fucking 700 years, cuz the first asshole to come take over fucked it up.

• 2:23:05Griffin Newman?

  Here's a fun thing to consider.

• 2:23:07Speaker 03

  This guy.

• 2:23:07Griffin Newman?

  Indiana Jones sucks as an archaeologist. This guy doesn't even know that movies exist.

• 2:23:12Speaker 03

  This dude has no idea.

• 2:23:14David Sims?

  He doesn't know that like printed words.

• 2:23:16Speaker 03

  He doesn't know that.

• 2:23:17Griffin Newman?

  He's missed the printing.

• 2:23:19Speaker 03

  All this shit, cheeseburgers. Let alone about Gutenberg's musical on Broadway.

• 2:23:23Griffin Newman?

  Well, God, and he would have loved that.

• 2:23:25Speaker 03

  Dude, he doesn't know about Nintendo.

• 2:23:27David Sims?

  No, he actually does. Weirdly, there's a deleted scene where he's like.

• 2:23:30Griffin Newman?

  That's the one thing they left him in the cave.

• 2:23:32David Sims?

  I love Nintendo.

• 2:23:32Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:23:33David Sims?

  But yeah, right. Jesus has permitted Nintendo.

• 2:23:36Griffin Newman?

  He has a wooden Nintendo.

• 2:23:38Speaker 03

  But you know, this asshole, like he only had Duck Hunt. It wasn't even the double cartridge of Mario Brothers.

• 2:23:43David Sims?

  Oh, he just had the Duck Hunt.

• 2:23:45Griffin Newman?

  He didn't have the gun.

• 2:23:46Speaker 03

  Playing Duck Hunt for 700 years.

• 2:23:48David Sims?

  With the controller.

• 2:23:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:49David Sims?

  Yeah. So, okay, so Julian Glover dies. Julian Glover dying is great. Uh, Indy's like, Indy, even Indy is a little briskly like, well, I think it's this shitty one.

• 2:24:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:24:01David Sims?

  So smart of you.

• 2:24:02Speaker 03

  Carpenter's cut.

• 2:24:02David Sims?

  But again, he doesn't even like, I just love to do one full scan. Just one full.

• 2:24:06Speaker 03

  Hearing you guys say Spielberg was never particularly interested in the Grail or it, this, I will say, like, and again, he's, you've given him a million props about his mastery.

• 2:24:16Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:24:16Speaker 03

  Like, this one does feel like a guy who doesn't give a fuck about this has made it the,

• 2:24:23Speaker 03

  like, the ultimate goal of the movie. And you can sort of feel that he doesn't totally give a fuck about the Grail itself.

• 2:24:29David Sims?

  Um.

• 2:24:29Speaker 03

  He's done. He's wrapping it up.

• 2:24:31David Sims?

  Cup is proven good. Okay? Takes it to Connery, saves Connery, that problem is solved. Now it's kind of like, okay, now what do we do? Right? And of course Elsa takes it across the Great Seal, which is not Indy's fault. You're disparaging his, he doesn't cause that chaos. That is Elsa's fault.

• 2:24:49Speaker 03

  Everywhere he goes in an archaeological sense, though, the place explodes or collapses.

• 2:24:55David Sims?

  Um, crack opens in the earth.

• 2:24:56Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:24:57David Sims?

  Uh, Elsa falls down it, you know, she's, Indy tries to rescue her. She's too tempted by the cup. She falls to her death. Indy resists the temptation of the cup, gets out, instead goes with his dad. The cup, the Grail Cup falls into the, into the abyss, right?

• 2:25:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. Onto that little ledge.

• 2:25:15David Sims?

  No, but like then, yeah, that, this is my question. They all leave. Grail Knight, as we know, goes like, uh, bye. Right? The whole thing's falling down.

• 2:25:24Speaker 03

  Fuck me, I guess.

• 2:25:26David Sims?

  Is Grail Knight still going to live? And just kind of be stuck there still?

• 2:25:32Speaker 03

  Grail Knight?

• 2:25:32David Sims?

  Is he gonna go get the cup back? Where's the cup gone and Grail Knight's about to die?

• 2:25:36Speaker 03

  Grail Knight has the craziest choice to make of anyone in the history of Earth, which is like, do I, no, I, no one else, I guess, cares about this half as much as I thought.

• 2:25:46David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:25:46Speaker 03

  So I guess now do I stay here and live?

• 2:25:49David Sims?

  That's my, like, is the Grail lost to him?

• 2:25:52Speaker 03

  Well, there's another option that ties into this, which is that there's another logic, which is, so Grail Knight, I Indiana Jones, this is not my thing, but my father has now drank from the cup. And conceivably, he spent his whole life chasing this and it's actually my father that should be doing this. And my father has sort of lived in absentia in a way that I've always resented, but if it was for the purpose of this, maybe this was the higher purpose, he could stay. And we just watched him drink from the holy grail. And they poured it on his, on his tummy. Henry Jones, senior also is like, no, I got illumination out of it. I got everything I wanted. Peace, Grail Knight. I'm not even gonna ask you a question.

• 2:26:35David Sims?

  Much, yeah, he's, no, yeah, just no, no further input required, but. Much like in Rage the Lost Ark, it's like, oh, what's in the ark? And it's like, I don't know, weird ghosts. Let's get out of here. You know, like, and this one, it's like, oh, what was the mystery of the grail? It's like, I don't fucking know. It fell into a pit.

• 2:26:49Speaker 03

  Arguably, Henry Jones, senior could have stayed there, let the grail knight have the sweet release of death. Marcus Brody could have been sent to any 99 cent store to get one of those little arm extender grabber things.

• 2:27:00Griffin Newman?

  A grabbing stick.

• 2:27:01Speaker 03

  They could have gone, got one of them grabbers, gotten the grail back, and Henry Jones, senior could have taken his turn as the new grail knight.

• 2:27:08David Sims?

  It sucks. It's the worst job in the fucking world.

• 2:27:10Speaker 03

  Dedicated his entire life to this.

• 2:27:11David Sims?

  To finding it. But like, the whole thing with the holy grail is, right, you get there and you're like, hell, yeah. And it's like, couple of touch, you know, couple of provisos here. One, you can't leave. Two, uh, no one's here. So it sucks.

• 2:27:24Speaker 03

  What do you think the grail knight, like, when they were all leaving, he would have been like, no, guys, no, wait, one of you has to take over. And they'd be like, nah, I'm sorry, man.

• 2:27:32Griffin Newman?

  It raises the question, I mean, they obviously like.

• 2:27:33Speaker 03

  We got TikTok and shit now, dude. Like, we gotta go, man.

• 2:27:37Griffin Newman?

  They fixed Connery's, uh, bullet wounds, right? But it's like, by feeding him the water, is he now?

• 2:27:44Speaker 03

  Does he live forever? Or since he left?

• 2:27:46Griffin Newman?

  No, cause in Crystal's skull, he's like, got the picture on his desk of his dead dad.

• 2:27:49David Sims?

  This is for this question. No, you don't live forever just by drinking from the grail one time.

• 2:27:53Griffin Newman?

  You gotta stay there.

• 2:27:54David Sims?

  You gotta keep drinking from it.

• 2:27:55Speaker 03

  Okay. And it's not just you drink it once and you stay there.

• 2:27:58David Sims?

  Correct. And so that's the kind of, you know, poisoned chalice thing of like, yay, I can live forever. Yeah, you can live forever in this room. Do you like cups?

• 2:28:06Griffin Newman?

  Living a grail knight's life.

• 2:28:08David Sims?

  Yeah, this room has cups in it.

• 2:28:09Griffin Newman?

  That's not life at all.

• 2:28:10David Sims?

  It's cup room. Do you like anything but cups? Does he jerk off into every cup?

• 2:28:14Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 2:28:15David Sims?

  Okay.

• 2:28:15Speaker 03

  Guys, that's a little sacrilegious.

• 2:28:16Griffin Newman?

  To your, to your point.

• 2:28:18David Sims?

  Do you think that's a little sacrilegious, actually?

• 2:28:20Speaker 03

  You gonna jerk off with the holy grail? It's just a wee bit sacrilegious.

• 2:28:23Griffin Newman?

  To your point about it feeling like Spielberg doesn't really give a shit about the grail, do you think they were all pissed that they had already blown knowledge was the real treasure? That it feels like this movie is building to some sort of line?

• 2:28:36Speaker 03

  Illumination always struck me as a very weird line, both in that it's a little soft and there's so many tie-ins that have, like, holy blood, holy grail has been written. Da Vinci Code isn't out yet, but like, this idea that the holy grail ties into the Illuminati. Is out there and it feels like illumination is a weird, what'd you get out of it?

• 2:28:55Griffin Newman?

  It feels like they're backed into a corner of like, how do we not double beat the ending of the last one? But it's like, the end, that line doesn't make a ton of sense in Temple of Doom versus what's going on in that movie. Whereas in this, it's like, what you want him or Connery to say is something like, no, the Grail doesn't matter. It's like this. It's what we know and it's what we care about and the friends we made along the way.

• 2:29:19Speaker 03

  There's a literal 700 year old man there that they just ignore dealing with. Either way, though, just to be clear, this is all nitpicky fun things at the end. This movie rule.

• 2:29:30Griffin Newman?

  And the Grail Knight's one of the greatest characters of all time.

• 2:29:32David Sims?

  Again, beyond what we're all saying, it's a fun little mini movie. Like, it really does feel like a point and click adventure to me. This sort of like-

• 2:29:41Griffin Newman?

  In the best way.

• 2:29:41Speaker 03

  How old do you think the Grail Knight was when his dick could no longer get hard?

• 2:29:47Griffin Newman?

  When did he stop jerking off in the cups?

• 2:29:49Speaker 03

  Like, when was that even off the table?

• 2:29:52Griffin Newman?

  Does drinking from the Grail make your dick sexually?

• 2:29:57David Sims?

  Well, I also, my favorite-

• 2:29:58Griffin Newman?

  Isn't the original Bluetooth?

• 2:30:00Speaker 03

  Beat me to it.

• 2:30:01David Sims?

  But my, my thing is also, he's in his armor. He could have taken it off, right? But he's in his armor. He like walks into Indy and Indy's like, what? And like, he falls over and he doesn't even really push him. And he's like, anyway, you beat me. So, uh, like, you know, like, he's so eagerly like, oh, like, yeah, that, that counts as single combat BTW and I want to go.

• 2:30:22Speaker 03

  What do you think the Grail Knight want? Like, he wants to sprint out there and like get one or two last things in before he crumbles into dust. He's like, thank you. You're taking over. Here's my sword.

• 2:30:33Griffin Newman?

  That's a good question. The second he like crosses the seal, is it like, hey, by the way, dude, you have like 40 minutes left to live. Your body's gonna give out.

• 2:30:41Speaker 03

  Three days to just go party.

• 2:30:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Does he end up having like a scent of a woman weekend?

• 2:30:46Speaker 03

  Does he want to go do Molly?

• 2:30:47David Sims?

  No, he would die immediately. I think not because of the rules, just because it's like, you are 700.

• 2:30:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:30:55David Sims?

  Maybe not. Maybe he gets a few days.

• 2:30:56Speaker 03

  I don't think the same thing happens to him that happened.

• 2:30:59David Sims?

  No, no, no, no. Viers is being like punished for his folly. Like that's like a.

• 2:31:04Speaker 03

  Viers gets turned into like Tales from the Crypt.

• 2:31:07David Sims?

  He gets turned into.

• 2:31:08Speaker 03

  That shit rocked me as a nine year old and I never forgot the scent of memory.

• 2:31:12David Sims?

  The hair growing is great, obviously, like as the first. And then you cut to him, her freaking out rocks.

• 2:31:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:31:18David Sims?

  Because she literally wanted this to happen and nonetheless is like, what the hell?

• 2:31:22Speaker 03

  How do you guys feel as her Nazi outfit, her Nazi outfit is smoking hot, right?

• 2:31:26Griffin Newman?

  She looks really good.

• 2:31:27David Sims?

  Yeah, I have less of a take on this than you guys.

• 2:31:30Speaker 03

  Did you see?

• 2:31:31David Sims?

  Chris keeps steering us back.

• 2:31:32Griffin Newman?

  Chris, did you see RRR? RRR? The big Hollywood epic of a couple of years ago.

• 2:31:41Speaker 03

  If it was, if it came out since Cal was born, I almost definitely.

• 2:31:44Griffin Newman?

  Okay, she is in that playing basically the older version of this character, right? Like horrible colonialist woman.

• 2:31:53David Sims?

  I'd like to think with Grail Knight that after this all goes down, he grabs a bottle of champagne that he's been holding on to. And then like a streamer comes down that says, happy retirement and balloons fall down from the ceiling.

• 2:32:08Speaker 03

  He gets a watch.

• 2:32:09Griffin Newman?

  He gets a bunch of like novelty greeting cards over the hill too old to count.

• 2:32:13David Sims?

  Exactly. He just sadly takes a swig out of the bottle and that's that.

• 2:32:18Griffin Newman?

  They give him a gold watch and he's off. He moves into the Margaritaville intentional housing community.

• 2:32:25David Sims?

  Yeah. So is everything about Indiana Jones better? If this movie ends with that sequence, they leave, get on the horses, ride into the sunset, Spielberg just absolutely, again, just kind of being like, we just do that. Best shot. Cool shot. And then that's it.

• 2:32:43Griffin Newman?

  And by the way, what I love about it.

• 2:32:45Speaker 03

  No crystal skull.

• 2:32:45Griffin Newman?

  It goes on. I think so. It goes on for so long. It's one of those things as they're riding off into the sunset and the silhouettes is so beautiful. You're like, oh, I'm like conditioned from movies of like, at some point this will fade to black as the credits play. The shot goes on for like six minutes.

• 2:33:01David Sims?

  It's a real kind of like.

• 2:33:02Griffin Newman?

  Gets so tiny.

• 2:33:03David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:04Griffin Newman?

  It is a good.

• 2:33:04Speaker 03

  I will say like, I don't, not to bring it back to something divisive, but it's because these are this sort of like old school cereal style, pulpy adventure. It's very, very easy to ignore the ones you don't like as much.

• 2:33:16David Sims?

  I agree.

• 2:33:17Speaker 03

  Whereas Star Wars, which obviously is connected, has this lore and this mythology and this religion.

• 2:33:22David Sims?

  But that would only be true if they had continued to make an indie every sort of like five to six years. Instead of like, now we wait 17 years or whatever, or 19 years, however long, you know, Crystal Skull comes out, the weight of expectation is far too large. It has to be about.

• 2:33:39Speaker 03

  That's the problem.

• 2:33:39David Sims?

  Legacy guy.

• 2:33:40Griffin Newman?

  Both Crystal Skull and Dial of Destiny are like, how do we make a movie that responds to the weight of expectations of Indiana Jones's back and dealing with the advanced age and what is a proper ending for him?

• 2:33:51David Sims?

  Just a moment where in the mid nineties, Spielberg should have either just been like, fine, I'll make a fourth one. Like, we should just keep doing this or done what he did with Jurassic Park where he's like, I did three, I, you know, I did plenty, like someone else can do them.

• 2:34:04Griffin Newman?

  But there's the thing we're not acknowledging here, which is that like Ford just always wanted to play the character again. Like Ford wouldn't drop it.

• 2:34:12David Sims?

  He wouldn't drop it, but they wouldn't.

• 2:34:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:34:14Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Him being like, please, please, please, guys.

• 2:34:17David Sims?

  Yeah, but the problem is Lucas gets bogged down in, starting with the prequels, Spielberg gets bogged down in being like a studio mogul who makes Schindler's List and Oscar winning shit.

• 2:34:26Speaker 03

  I would still argue like, one of the heartbreaking things about Star Wars is the misses, like.

• 2:34:33David Sims?

  Well, with Star Wars, it's a woven together saga.

• 2:34:36Speaker 03

  But I, I think, and, and because of that, like my son's going to grow up with a Star Wars, where the misses do take away some of the magic that I got to grow up with. I do not think that Indiana Jones's misses take away the magic of Raiders or Last.

• 2:34:52David Sims?

  No, I think the two sequels being so far away does mean you can kind of keep it hermetic.

• 2:34:57Speaker 03

  Even Temple, even Temple's flaws.

• 2:34:59David Sims?

  Right, sure.

• 2:35:00Speaker 03

  I could sit there, the Raiders is, or Crusade is rather, and some of this, obviously I have such clear. You know, personal memories of being in the theater with my dad. But has there ever been a time where Last Crusade or Raiders of the Lost Ark is on cable? And you don't stop and watch for at least five or six minutes?

• 2:35:20Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:35:20Speaker 03

  Like, it's one of those.

• 2:35:21Griffin Newman?

  It is.

• 2:35:22Speaker 03

  Always and forever.

• 2:35:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah, and nothing can ding that. And I think it is because like, you know, they, they, the, the guys who wrote the Pirates of the Caribbean movies talk about when that first movie was such a surprise success and they were like, Disney wants a trilogy. The first question they asked themselves was, are we Star Wars or Indiana Jones? And I think a lot of franchises these days make the mistake of being like, we have to be Star Wars. We have to try to weave an intentional epic, a narrative that feels like it was planned from the beginning, all these things. And there's like a real benefit to being like, Indiana Jones, make it up as you go along. Just have fun, play around, you know? Um, and I think that does help its legacy where you're just like, there's nothing any

• 2:36:04Griffin Newman?

  amount of other Indiana Jones shit can do that will ever damage the earlier films. Like, you're like, it probably would have been better if they never made a fourth or fifth movie, but I also don't think they really take away from anything. Whereas, not to talk about Star Wars, but there's shit in Rise of Skywalker. I'm like, it leads up to that? That does sort of color other shit for me, you know? As much as the movies like themselves are objects that can't be damaged.

• 2:36:30Speaker 03

  There's these moments that do get, like, you watch Andor and you sit there and you're like, oh, the way that they are looking back at the original movie. And this series actually shows you like, no, this had, this world had turned into a fascist dystopian nightmare. And then you think about how Rogue One leads into it and you go like, man, people had gotten to the point where they're like, killing their own allies for making noise to make sure they don't get killed. And that's so grim and it's so dark. And then you think about the foolishness of a teenage kid going, oh, the Death Star, that's a, it's not much worse than shooting at a Wamp Rat back home. And you're like, you needed a kid that naive to be able to pull this off. And in a hopeless world, everyone must, Andor does such a good job of getting it back.

• 2:37:13Speaker 03

  The grimness of the audacity of even having hope. Um, and some of those attempts at Star Wars do get it back, which is why Last Jedi making Luke cynical is an absolute betrayal.

• 2:37:24Griffin Newman?

  All right, I don't want to talk about.

• 2:37:25David Sims?

  David, how'd this movie do at the box office?

• 2:37:26Griffin Newman?

  So, May, Memorial Day, 1989.

• 2:37:30David Sims?

  It's the, like we said, the, uh, to be clear, George Lucas, that was his entire plan.

• 2:37:36Griffin Newman?

  Guess doing a bunch of hand gestures.

• 2:37:39Speaker 03

  I wanted to avoid it, but you set it up.

• 2:37:41David Sims?

  All cynicism curdles.

• 2:37:42Griffin Newman?

  You had to do it. You had to say this.

• 2:37:44David Sims?

  No idealism last, even Tintin and the Pecoros, the final completed Tintin novel, right? The graphic novel, whatever.

• 2:37:50Speaker 03

  I don't love that you pointed at my hairline when you said Tintin.

• 2:37:54Griffin Newman?

  Specifically the hairline, not even at you.

• 2:37:55David Sims?

  You know, Tintin is always a fairly idealistic person, right? And it's only, and literally in pretty much, in the last few books, you're starting to see like a bit, the slightest edge with him, but it's only Tintin and the Pecoros, which is the final book, Hergé completed before he died, where Tintin suddenly is not wearing his plus fours, the pants he used to wear. He's wearing longer pants. Yeah, he's wearing like sort of flared pants.

• 2:38:19Speaker 03

  I love you making direct eye contact and screaming.

• 2:38:21David Sims?

  I want you, I want you to hear about Tintin.

• 2:38:23Speaker 03

  This is you giving, handing me my ass after years of me tormenting.

• 2:38:27David Sims?

  Right. And Tintin and the Pecoros is about, they go to this sort of fictional Latin American country that's been in the books before, and their friend, General Alcazar, who they've had adventures with before, he's been, he's on the outs, he's become this kind of guerrilla fighter. They help him take over and kick out the sort of the mean general who's in charge, right? But the, the book begins with them landing, like the plane, and you sort of see the city and there's like a cop spinning a, you know, a bat, you know, whatever.

• 2:38:59Speaker 03

  Billy Club.

• 2:38:59David Sims?

  Billy Club, right. And then in the end of the book, when they're leaving, you see the same cop, he's just got a different uniform on, and there's sort of, Hergé's cynicism abounds a little bit. And Tintin is more cynical of just like, we're not, we're not really doing good here. You know what I mean?

• 2:39:15Speaker 03

  Creator cynicism or?

• 2:39:16David Sims?

  Yes, the creator, but you see it in Tintin for the first time.

• 2:39:19Griffin Newman?

  It's starting to bleed in.

• 2:39:21David Sims?

  Yes. And it's so fascinating to me. It's like, right.

• 2:39:23Speaker 03

  I get the point you're making. Sounds like what you're saying is that General Alcazar is the Fisto of Tintin.

• 2:39:28David Sims?

  I mean, General Alcazar is a character I truly adore. So sure. Yeah. So I'll, I'll go with that.

• 2:39:33Griffin Newman?

  But also to just bring this all together, right? Like, I love the Tintin movie. You love the Tintin movie. Spielberg made his Tintin movie.

• 2:39:41David Sims?

  He did, yeah.

• 2:39:42Griffin Newman?

  That is.

• 2:39:43David Sims?

  That's more classic Tintin of like, he's the, he's the sweet kid who, you know.

• 2:39:47Griffin Newman?

  But also in direct relation to this movie, I'm like, that's just Spielberg having fun. That movie is not about anything.

• 2:39:54David Sims?

  Not really.

• 2:39:54Griffin Newman?

  About less than the books are.

• 2:39:56David Sims?

  Yeah, no, yeah, for sure.

• 2:39:57Griffin Newman?

  It's like filmmaking shit and him being like, look at what I can do with new technology. And I think you put that next to Last Crusade and Last Crusade's got a little more on its mind than the Tintin movie.

• 2:40:08David Sims?

  Um.

• 2:40:08Griffin Newman?

  As a text.

• 2:40:09David Sims?

  Um, yeah, Last Crusade is, is.

• 2:40:13Griffin Newman?

  Quite a bit more, I should say, not even a little more.

• 2:40:15David Sims?

  Yeah, I just think at this point Spielberg has more depth.

• 2:40:20Griffin Newman?

  He does.

• 2:40:21Speaker 02

  Oh, I just wanted to say, uh, Wet Chonker, uh, the actor's name is J J Hardy.

• 2:40:25Griffin Newman?

  There we go. Yeah. That of course, that's. Read up on J J Hardy. Yeah.

• 2:40:30David Sims?

  Um, so it opens number one, Griffin, thirty seven million dollars.

• 2:40:33Griffin Newman?

  Memorial Day weekend.

• 2:40:34David Sims?

  For the memorial, for the four day.

• 2:40:35Speaker 03

  Can you now please get me the name, individual names of all two thousand wet mice?

• 2:40:40David Sims?

  All right.

• 2:40:40Griffin Newman?

  You're on it.

• 2:40:41David Sims?

  Number two at the box office, Griffin, is a comedy from like a duo who did a lot of movies together, but I think this is seen as maybe their worst. I think it's also their last.

• 2:40:51Griffin Newman?

  Is it Another You?

• 2:40:53David Sims?

  No, what's that?

• 2:40:55Griffin Newman?

  Is it a prior and wilder movie?

• 2:40:57David Sims?

  Okay, it is prior and wilder, right. Another You is their true last. It's their second.

• 2:41:00Griffin Newman?

  So this one is see no evil, hear no evil. I feel like a movie Ben likes, or you would watch a lot as a child?

• 2:41:05Speaker 02

  Obsessed. That was weirdly this movie that I, I feel like I caught on cable TV enough times that then I ended up having it on VHS.

• 2:41:16Griffin Newman?

  A broad comedy with the premise of what if one guy was blind and one guy was.

• 2:41:21David Sims?

  And they get involved in like a murder mystery, whatever, right? But it's not, I haven't seen it. It's not well regarded, right? This scene is a bad movie.

• 2:41:28Speaker 02

  Well, cause a lot of the comedy is based around their disabilities.

• 2:41:32David Sims?

  Sure.

• 2:41:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:41:32David Sims?

  Which the actors, of course, do not have.

• 2:41:35Griffin Newman?

  Right. Uh, Another You is the one, though, that is like truly.

• 2:41:38David Sims?

  That's nineteen ninety one.

• 2:41:39Griffin Newman?

  And that one's.

• 2:41:40David Sims?

  Right, Pryor must be really.

• 2:41:41Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, he's not in good shape.

• 2:41:42David Sims?

  Struggling.

• 2:41:43Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:44David Sims?

  Number three, the box office, a film we, uh, mentioned on this episode several times, uh, uh, inspiration or, you know, it's heartwarming drama.

• 2:41:55Griffin Newman?

  Field of Dreams?

• 2:41:56David Sims?

  Field of Dreams.

• 2:41:56Griffin Newman?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:41:57David Sims?

  Is doing great at the box office, kind of like a Little Engine That Could type movie.

• 2:42:01Griffin Newman?

  And will sort of sleepwalk its way to a surprise, uh.

• 2:42:05David Sims?

  Best Picture nomination, correct. Uh, number four at the box office. Geth, are you just leaving, Geth?

• 2:42:13Speaker 03

  I legitimately am about to miss my son's school.

• 2:42:15David Sims?

  Yeah, you gotta go. So, um.

• 2:42:17Griffin Newman?

  I gotta give you this.

• 2:42:18Speaker 03

  What's that?

• 2:42:19Griffin Newman?

  I have long promised to send something for Cal, your son.

• 2:42:24Speaker 03

  Oh, that's so nice.

• 2:42:26Griffin Newman?

  And.

• 2:42:26Speaker 03

  You did send it. You sent a Kit Fisto onesie when he was.

• 2:42:29Griffin Newman?

  I did. A couple of times I've asked for your address to send it.

• 2:42:33Speaker 03

  But now I have it.

• 2:42:34Griffin Newman?

  Um, I'm so sorry to have to run, but I.

• 2:42:36David Sims?

  I got so much shit about trying to keep the train on time. And now like Geth has a hard out.

• 2:42:41Griffin Newman?

  We were having fun.

• 2:42:42Speaker 03

  You guys were having fun. Crazy idiots. Is this, you want me to open this on, Mike?

• 2:42:47Griffin Newman?

  I think so.

• 2:42:47Speaker 03

  A gift for my son?

• 2:42:48Griffin Newman?

  I think so.

• 2:42:49Speaker 03

  It's also good to remind your viewers that I'm not a monster. I do have a life.

• 2:42:54Griffin Newman?

  You do. And you're a dear friend.

• 2:42:56David Sims?

  You really have to stop looking at Reddit, Chris. Like 99% of people do not think you're a monster.

• 2:43:01Speaker 03

  I've also met so many Blank Check fans. Like I'll go on the road and they come to stand up shows of mine and they're, they are lovely.

• 2:43:07Griffin Newman?

  Yes, in person.

• 2:43:08David Sims?

  Great to hear.

• 2:43:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:43:09Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 2:43:10Griffin Newman?

  There are two items in here.

• 2:43:11Speaker 03

  Oh my goodness.

• 2:43:15Griffin Newman?

  And these are for your son.

• 2:43:16Speaker 03

  We've got a Star Wars battle Jedi versus Darth Sidious.

• 2:43:21Griffin Newman?

  This is specifically a box set of the Jedi wrecking crew. It is your favorite moment. It is the three guys showing up to fight Sidious.

• 2:43:29Speaker 03

  This is really.

• 2:43:30Griffin Newman?

  The other item.

• 2:43:30Speaker 03

  Amazing.

• 2:43:32Griffin Newman?

  Which I couldn't believe existed.

• 2:43:33Speaker 03

  Transformers. Dude, a Kit Fisto Transformer?

• 2:43:36Griffin Newman?

  It is a robot Kit Fisto that transforms into Kit Fisto Starfighter.

• 2:43:41Speaker 03

  That's so fucking sick.

• 2:43:42Griffin Newman?

  It just feels like your son's at Star Wars age now. It's time.

• 2:43:45Speaker 03

  He's at Star Wars age and Transformers age.

• 2:43:48Griffin Newman?

  Here we go.

• 2:43:48Speaker 03

  He's Delta Seven Esperite class. I'm truly touched. Thank you.

• 2:43:52Griffin Newman?

  You're welcome.

• 2:43:53Speaker 03

  Sorry to be.

• 2:43:53David Sims?

  Get out of here, Chris.

• 2:43:54Speaker 03

  Thanks for doing the admin.

• 2:43:56Griffin Newman?

  Anything to plug? You're doing your new show at UCB?

• 2:43:59Speaker 03

  That show at UCB hosted by Chris Gethard. It's selling out months in advance. I'm not sure why, but I'm very flattered.

• 2:44:05Griffin Newman?

  Live in New York, but also live streaming tickets available.

• 2:44:07Speaker 03

  Tickets for, yeah, it's the last Wednesday of every month. Beautiful anonymous. Still going strong. It's a good look at humanity, one human at a time. Thanks, everybody.

• 2:44:14David Sims?

  We love you, Geth. We'll drop links in the episode description for all that.

• 2:44:18Griffin Newman?

  And Geth is drowning with a box full of Kit Fisto toys. Send Halle and your son might love. Um. No, no. Did we finish the five?

• 2:44:28David Sims?

  Number four at the box office. Cult movie.

• 2:44:35David Sims?

  Not really a big hit at the time. People forget. I mean, it was a whatever.

• 2:44:39Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:44:39David Sims?

  It was a reasonable hit. Um, but has become quite a cult movie.

• 2:44:43Griffin Newman?

  Has become quite a cult.

• 2:44:46David Sims?

  Action?

• 2:44:47Griffin Newman?

  Action.

• 2:44:48David Sims?

  I guess. It was recently remade.

• 2:44:50Griffin Newman?

  It was recently remade.

• 2:44:52David Sims?

  Yeah, it's kind of like an action drama. Hmm. Uh, how to describe it? It's, it's, uh, Wikipedia describes it as an action film.

• 2:45:00Griffin Newman?

  What studio distributed the picture?

• 2:45:02David Sims?

  Uh, United Artists.

• 2:45:04Griffin Newman?

  United Artists?

• 2:45:04David Sims?

  Silver film, Joel Silver film.

• 2:45:06Griffin Newman?

  It's not Red Dawn.

• 2:45:07David Sims?

  Nope, but you've got, uh, the right actor.

• 2:45:11Griffin Newman?

  It's a Swayze.

• 2:45:12David Sims?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:45:13Griffin Newman?

  Huh.

• 2:45:13David Sims?

  Uh, what is it?

• 2:45:15Griffin Newman?

  It's not Point Break. That's later.

• 2:45:16David Sims?

  No. The Swayze movie that's a big.

• 2:45:19Griffin Newman?

  Oh, Roadhouse.

• 2:45:20David Sims?

  That just got remade.

• 2:45:20Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, Road, yeah, Roadhouse, sorry.

• 2:45:23David Sims?

  What do you think of Roadhouse?

• 2:45:24Griffin Newman?

  Uh, yeah, I get it. It's never been mine, but I'm like, I understand the cult around it.

• 2:45:29David Sims?

  You like Roadhouse?

• 2:45:30Griffin Newman?

  Hell, fuck it. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

• 2:45:32David Sims?

  Fun.

• 2:45:33Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:45:33David Sims?

  Yeah, man. He was a philosophy major.

• 2:45:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:45:37David Sims?

  But now he's the friggin' best bouncer all around.

• 2:45:40Griffin Newman?

  He rips out throats.

• 2:45:41David Sims?

  Yeah, dude. Number five at the box office.

• 2:45:44Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:45:45David Sims?

  Is a film that I, uh, I think I've described on this podcast. It's a very specific film. Uh, it's a major movie star.

• 2:45:52Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:45:53David Sims?

  Uh, who often would direct himself, but this is, uh, one of the ones where he's being directed by one of his guys.

• 2:45:58Griffin Newman?

  It's a Clint?

• 2:45:59David Sims?

  It's a Clint movie.

• 2:46:01Griffin Newman?

  Is it like Firefox?

• 2:46:02David Sims?

  Not Firefox. Clint directed Firefox.

• 2:46:04Griffin Newman?

  Okay, but it's in that zone. It's not Iger Sanction. That's earlier.

• 2:46:07David Sims?

  Uh, Clint also directed Iger Sanction, which is an amazing movie.

• 2:46:11Griffin Newman?

  I can't remember which ones he didn't direct.

• 2:46:14David Sims?

  Uh, well, I will say this. I described it, I think, on this show as what if Clint, uh, Eastwood played Gene Parmesan?

• 2:46:21David Sims?

  Because it's one of those movies where you're like, it's about like kind of a skip tracer, right? He's this guy who, who like.

• 2:46:26Griffin Newman?

  Bronco Billy? What is?

• 2:46:27David Sims?

  Not Bronco Billy's.

• 2:46:29Griffin Newman?

  I don't know what that movie's about.

• 2:46:29David Sims?

  Also directed that. That's a really good movie.

• 2:46:31Griffin Newman?

  Damn it.

• 2:46:32David Sims?

  Uh, skip tracer, you know, so like a guy who like basically finds people.

• 2:46:35Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:46:36David Sims?

  And the premise of the movie is like, he's really good at like donning disguises to catch people and like, he is not. Is it called the blank? No, it's called Pink Cadillac. Oh, I never knew that's what that movie was about. Yeah. You've told me it's. Uh, it's a Buddy Van Horn movie. Buddy Van Horn also directed any which way you can. And Deadpool, uh, Pink Cadillac, opening at number five. So I think probably not a bigger success for him. Only made 12 million dollars, but it's Clinton, Bernadette Peters. Yeah. Big two. Yep. You've also got K nine. Mm hmm. The, that's the Jim Belushi dog movie. Right. Outgrowing Turner Hooch. No, there you go. You've got Pet Sematary, the original adaptation of Pet Sematary. That is pretty good.

• 2:47:21David Sims?

  Yeah, solid movie. Uh, pretty scary, uh, directed by Mary Lambert. Yeah, that's well made film. You have a film, uh, that Ben likes a lot, a little movie called Major League. Well, well, well. And Bob Uecker just died. You know, Bob Uecker? The announcer? Bob Uecker is a famous announcer, but he also was really funny. And so he's the announcer in Major League and he has two of my favorite line deliveries ever. One, of course, is just a bit outside, which is so funny. Kind of a proto Fred Willard and best in show performance. Uh, but I, I just, it just always gets me where he's like, you know, saying like setting up like, all right. And it's all stakes on the line. And then the, the other team gets a hint and he goes, ah, shit.

• 2:48:00David Sims?

  Can we do Major League? Yes, we can. We can just do it. We can just do it. We could do whatever the fuck we want. We can do whatever we want. We're in charge. We have no bosses. We always were kind of like, oh, well, maybe we'll do David S. Ward. It's like, we're not going to do that. The directors. Maybe we do David. No, come on. We're finally gonna knock out some David S. Ward. So I think we could do major leagues, one and two on our Patreon. Do we do back to the minus? We have to. It's not too good. They're bacula. Bacula.

• 2:48:33Griffin Newman?

  Haysbert.

• 2:48:34David Sims?

  Haysbert and Bernstein, I think are the two holdovers.

• 2:48:37Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 2:48:38David Sims?

  Uh, from the original two.

• 2:48:40Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:48:41David Sims?

  Is Major League Two any good?

• 2:48:43Griffin Newman?

  I love Major League.

• 2:48:44David Sims?

  I think that's the movie I've seen like once. Well, that's a crazy.

• 2:48:48Griffin Newman?

  But that might have just been, it was.

• 2:48:50David Sims?

  I actually kind of prefer it too.

• 2:48:51Griffin Newman?

  It was even more regular rotation on like Comedy Central. I saw it so many more times.

• 2:48:57David Sims?

  I have cried at Major League Two many, many times.

• 2:49:00Griffin Newman?

  I like the arc of Wild Thing trying to go normal.

• 2:49:03David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:49:04Griffin Newman?

  And I find the moment at the end where he goes full.

• 2:49:06David Sims?

  Well, then I think we need to watch Major League this year.

• 2:49:09Griffin Newman?

  Then we'll do Major League.

• 2:49:10David Sims?

  Um, yeah, number nine, Rain Man, uh, which has been in the box office for like six, six months.

• 2:49:16Griffin Newman?

  Right. The highest grossing film of the year before.

• 2:49:18David Sims?

  I think so.

• 2:49:19Griffin Newman?

  Is still out. Yeah.

• 2:49:20David Sims?

  Uh, and then number 10 of the box office is a movie called Scandal.

• 2:49:25Griffin Newman?

  Hmm.

• 2:49:25David Sims?

  Uh, it looks like a sort of erotic British. Oh no, it's a British, it's about the Profumo affair. Very famous, uh, British sex scandal, uh, stars John Hurt and, uh, Joanne, Joanne Wally. The, uh, wife of, uh, Val Kilmer is Christine Keeler. That's the box office game. We're done with Indiana Jones, Last Crusade. Our guest had to leave.

• 2:49:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Box full of Fisto.

• 2:49:48David Sims?

  Uh, with a box full of Fisto.

• 2:49:50Griffin Newman?

  And we.

• 2:49:51David Sims?

  I have a pie from Chris.

• 2:49:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. He gave you a pie. Uh, in, uh, celebration of your, uh, your, I was, I was about to say growing family, but grown family. It is now reached its maximum size.

• 2:50:04David Sims?

  So tired and hungry.

• 2:50:06Griffin Newman?

  Great. So the episode's over.

• 2:50:07David Sims?

  The episode is over. Yeah.

• 2:50:08Griffin Newman?

  I love this movie. Thanks you all for, I think, thanks you all for listening.

• 2:50:12David Sims?

  It's a good movie and it's also as much as Spielberg is, it's time for him to put aside childish things. He then makes two kind of ungainly flawed films before Jurassic Park.

• 2:50:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Next week we'll talk about Always, a very weird kind of total miss for him in terms of public, uh, you know, response, uh, at the box office and critics and all of it. Uh, with our friend, Richard Lawson returning to the show.

• 2:50:39David Sims?

  Um, yeah.

• 2:50:39Griffin Newman?

  Was kind of his Major League Two growing up, a movie he watched a weird number of times.

• 2:50:43David Sims?

  And over on the Patreon, we are talking Star Trek, The Next Generation. And the next movie we are talking about is.

• 2:50:51Griffin Newman?

  Star Trek Nemesis. Wrapping it up. To the end of that, Stuart Baird's Star Trek Nemesis. Should we say what we're doing next after that? Evil. Well, we have Galaxy Quest. Oh, great. So then we'll save it. But we're doing Galaxy Quest after Nemesis. Great. So like, it's still a few more weeks of. Yeah, cool. Uh, thank you all for listening. And as always, I sent my manager the draft day link. She responded, we'll look into it. And I just want to on the record say, I predict nothing will ever come of it. You predict they will not look into it. I'm predicting this is the last I hear about it.

• 2:51:31Speaker 02

  Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hostly. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas. And our associate producer is AJ McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by JJ Birch. Our theme song is by Lain Montgomery and the Great American Novel, with additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Ollie Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to BlankCheckPod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon Blank Check Special Features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes.

• 2:52:16Speaker 02

  Follow us on social at Blank Check Pod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook, on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Productions.