From Raw Vegan to Orthorexia | Untangling Your Diet from Identity with Nutritionist Sarah Britton

In today’s episode of Bite Back with Abbey Sharp, I will be chatting with food blogger, cookbook author and nutritionist Sarah Britton about her experiences with raw veganism becoming a dangerous eating disorder and how she untangled her diet from her core identity. Sarah talks about the exclusivity of certain extreme diets like raw veganism and how it serves to perpetuate the internalization of one’s diet as identity. She talks about the physical and mental health implications of her restrictive raw vegan diet and what triggered her body to beg for a diet change. She talks about the identity crisis she faced upon introducing animal products to her diet, especially as a person in the public eye. And I finish with some tips on how to uncouple your diet from your core identity if and when your diet is no longer working for you. References: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5623148 https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/ Check in with today’s amazing guest: Sarah Britton Website: https://www.mynewroots.org/ Cookbooks : https://www.mynewroots.org/cookbooks/ @mynewroots Trigger Warning: I want to flag that we will be talking about eating disorders, and we will also be discussing Sarah’s experiences with veganism, some of which was not positive or helpful. I do not want anyone to take this as me or Sarah not supporting a plant-based diet because as you’ll see, we absolutely both do. Disclaimer: The content in this episode is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is never a substitute for medical advice. If you’re struggling with with your mental or physical health, please work one on one with a health care provider. If you have heard yourself in our discussion today, and are looking for support, contact the free NEDIC helpline at 1-866-NEDIC-20 or go to eatingdisorderhope.com. • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •✨ Reach Your Weight & Health Goals — Without Dieting! Pre-order The Hunger Crushing Combo Method, Abbey’s revolutionary additive approach to eating well. Learn how to boost satiety, stabilize blood sugars, reduce disease risk, and improve your relationship with food — all while getting the best nutrient bang for your caloric buck. With 400+ research citations, cheat sheets, evidence-based actionable tips, meal plans, and adaptable recipes, The Hunger Crushing Combo Method is the only nutrition bible you’ll ever need. 👉 Pre-order today! 🛒 Where to Purchase: Amazon Barnes & Noble Amazon Kindle Apple Books Google Play Kobo Apple Books (Audiobook) Audible abbeyskitchen.com/hunger-crushing-combo • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •✉️ Subscribe to My Newsletters: Abbey’s Kitchen Newsletter 📘 Check out my FREE E-Books: Hunger Crushing Combo™ E-Book Protein 101 E-Book 👋 Follow me! Instagram: @abbeyskitchen TikTok: @abbeyskitchen YouTube: @AbbeysKitchen Blog: abbeyskitchen.com Book: The Mindful Glow Cookbook • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • 🎧 Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen — and leave us a review! It really helps support the show ❤️ 💬 If you liked this podcast, please like, follow, and leave a review — and let me know who you’d love to hear about next! ⭐ ⭐ ⭐⭐ ⭐ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I got my first chicken from him. I roasted it. I ate that thing with my hands and every cell in my body was extremely ready for that nourishment. I haven't looked back since. That was the turning point.

• 0:16Abbey Sharp?

  Welcome to another episode of Bite Back with Abbey Sharp, where I dismantle diet culture rules, call out the charlatans spinning the pseudoscience, and help you achieve food freedom for good.

• 0:30Abbey Sharp?

  I am really, really excited about today's episode because I think it does really embody one of the many reasons why I think wellness culture today is so dangerous for so many. You know, wellness and diet culture tend to make our diet or the way we eat the centerpiece of like our entire life. They tend to teach us that the food on our plate is more than just nourishment for our bodies, but rather is a profound statement of who we are. Whether we're vegan, paleo, or gluten-free, these labels often go well beyond dietary choices

• 1:09Abbey Sharp?

  and start to define our personal values, our social circles, and even how we see ourselves. But what happens to our deeply grounded identity when our diet suddenly changes? That's the question we'll be exploring today with my guest, nutritionist, chef, cookbook author, and creator of the popular blog, My New Roots, Sarah Britton. We'll be diving into Sarah's experience with her healthy vegan lifestyle turn unhealthy orthorexic behaviors. We'll be discussing the theme of food as identity and the dangers inherent in that mindset. We'll also be talking about how diet and wellness culture contribute to this

• 1:50Abbey Sharp?

  tendency. And finally, I will be leaving you with some tips to help prevent your food choices from becoming your whole life. Now, before we get into this, I want to quickly flag that we will be talking about eating disorders and we'll also be discussing Sarah's experiences with veganism, some of which was Not exactly so great. And I don't want anybody to take this as me or Sarah not supporting a plant-based diet, because as you will soon hear, we absolutely both do. Also, the information in this episode is for educational and entertainment purposes only, and it's never a replacement for

• 2:29Abbey Sharp?

  one-on-one healthcare advice. Finally, do not forget to give Bite Back a follow, and please leave me a five-star review, because it really, really does help me out. All right, folks, let's dive in.

• 2:49Abbey Sharp?

  Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Sarah. I'm so excited to chat with you.

• 2:54Speaker 00

  Me too. Thanks for having me, Abbey.

• 2:56Abbey Sharp?

  So I wanted to kind of quickly jump in here, just kind of halfway through your food journey, because, you know, like for all of us, it sounds like it's been a windy, long road. So correct me if I get anything, I miss any important details, but from what you've said and what I've read, you got into the kind of whole local, organic, plant-based diet after doing a stint working in an organic farm in 2006. And then you were hired to manage a raw vegan restaurant in Copenhagen, which is amazing, which essentially kind of inspired you to go full raw vegan. And I would love if you could tell me a little bit about how the raw vegan lifestyle felt different, like,

• 3:38Abbey Sharp?

  you know, emotionally, spiritually, socially, physically, than the more moderate plant-based diet you had been on previously.

• 3:45Speaker 00

  Sure, yeah, it was a huge shift, actually. And at the time, raw veganism was still pretty edgy, and especially in Scandinavia. I think Germany is really ahead of the curve when it comes to a lot of health movements, but just above there. For some reason, it kind of stops there. So in Denmark and Sweden, raw veganism was really very fringe. I mean, just being a vegetarian in that country alone was already like really kind of strange, I will say, and different. But yeah, I

• 4:24Speaker 00

  I found this raw vegan restaurant and I had been vegan for a few years already and was feeling amazing. And I thought it would be a really cool opportunity to hone those culinary skills even more. So I've been working in restaurants as a vegetarian chef. But when this opportunity came up, I just jumped at it because I thought, okay, that's really sort of the next level and that's where I want to go to anyway. And I knew that it would really challenge my culinary skills because you have to think so creatively all the time. I mean, there's

• 4:55Abbey Sharp?

  Totally.

• 4:56Speaker 00

  There's just no, yeah, you can't just sort of make something off the cuff. You have to really think about it. So after just a few weeks of working there, I started eating fully raw because it was really easy. I had access to it. And I was the one making the food anyway, so I knew what was going in it. And I mean, when I say that it's a spiritual practice to eat this way, I really mean it. Because first of all, it takes up a lot of mental space.

• 5:28Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 5:29Speaker 00

  And it becomes a devotional practice in so many ways because it's not like you can just go and grab a sandwich. You really need to be thinking about food, not just what you're gonna have for dinner tonight, but next Thursday. Because I was also really into sprouting, so I was making everything, my meals like days in advance. So it is a devotional practice in that sense. And also, gosh, I mean, I felt actually high. As soon as I started eating a hundred percent raw, I felt like I was vibrating on some plane that was just not even on planet earth.

• 6:08Speaker 00

  I was so, I felt so amazing. I was so full of energy. I've never felt so clear headed and focused. Light, agile, like I just, I was bursting with energy. And the only other people that really could relate to me were the fellow employees of this restaurant. And so we ended up spending so much time together, both cooking and eating, but also just talking about, you know, what we were doing because it was so out of the box and it was so different than anyone else in our lives at that time. So it kind of became, yeah, this little clique and we were really tight and we just.

• 6:49Speaker 00

  Eating raw food together. And we kept each other sort of accountable and. But we all felt amazing and we also could. Sort of take care in each other's struggles, especially with the social life, because that kind of falls. I mean, you just don't. Unless your partner or your other friends or your family is eating raw vegan. Socializing becomes incredibly difficult.

• 7:18Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 7:19Speaker 00

  Um, you, like, like I said, you can't just go to a restaurant. Um, you can't even go to, go over to someone's house for dinner.

• 7:24Abbey Sharp?

  No.

• 7:25Speaker 00

  So I think that really it's an incredibly bonding experience with the people who you're doing it with as well. And it was a lot of fun. It was highly experimental. We really felt like we were on the edge of something incredibly exciting. It, it was really only incredible, uh, while I was in.

• 7:43Abbey Sharp?

  It's amazing.

• 7:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, I felt the best. Yeah, maybe ever.

• 7:47Abbey Sharp?

  And it, it sounds like, you know, your experience kind of syncs up with. The rise in popularity of the freely the banana girl and the raw Christina and the Carolyn Daisler. And, you know, these other raw vegan influencers that really were quite popular for a period of time. And I guess a lot of my followers don't really know this, um, but my first viral video was of me reviewing freely. The banana girls, what I need a day because. You know, as a healthcare professional, I was kind of blown away. That someone who was, you know, promoting such an outrageous fringe diet was now so mainstream. And, you know, as someone who had. Had have recovered from orthorexia myself.

• 8:29Abbey Sharp?

  I was seeing that this lifestyle that they were selling as not a diet. Was in fact a diet and, and part of the reason why it was so persuasive was because. Of there's this, this kind of, um, almost like a competition inherent in these circles. There's, there's this community and a set sense of righteousness. And almost shame if you're not kind of doing, you know, the, you're not the. Put it putting forth the most vigilant devotion to the movement. You mentioned it's a devotion, like. It sounds like it it most certainly has to be it's you're not vegan enough if you are not raw.

• 9:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:05Abbey Sharp?

  Um, and so from my perspective, watching the this trend happening, it just felt like it was encouraging people to push through what their own intuition may be. Um, when it comes to what feels good to their body. And in those moments, it does feel good. Um, but did you feel that pressure to kind of be perfect? Um, be righteous, be, you know, the best vegan you could be when you were in that fully raw vegan world?

• 9:36Speaker 00

  One hundred percent. There was definitely, I mean, even when I was vegan, I still because I also uh suffered from orthorexia, not um, it wasn't until much later that I saw that because I felt quite balanced in the moment.

• 9:52Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 9:53Speaker 00

  Don't we always? But there was always this like one upping, like, how can I be better? How can I be more righteous? And I mean, eating cooked food for a while then felt really like I was cheating in some way, like I was regressing in some way. So raw veganism, even eighty twenty raw, felt like that's that had to be the goal. And I wondered why people who were vegan weren't striving for a high raw diet as well, because that was clearly the next step. My mind at the time. So, yeah, it felt it was not necessarily a competition with others, but I think with myself. Again, I felt so devoted to this way of eating and living that

• 10:39Speaker 00

  I just wanted to continuously challenge myself and keep, keep going up higher and higher.

• 10:44Abbey Sharp?

  Right. I mean, it sounds a little bit like a cult, the way you've described it there.

• 10:49Speaker 00

  I know.

• 10:50Abbey Sharp?

  We'll get to the next level, moving up the ranks. Um.

• 10:54Speaker 00

  But you're not wrong.

• 10:56Abbey Sharp?

  I know. And so. You know, though, I I kind of hear these, these, these comments from a lot of, of folks who have struggled with disordered eating and eating disorders. And it's like, often, people's well-meaning con- comments get very twisted by the ED brain. Um, and you end up just feeling very kind of misunderstood and alone for, you know, the folks that you're seeing who are vegan and they aren't taking it to the next level like. What, like, what, why are they missing this? Um, and you know, EDs do that, right? They're inherently isolating and then they get amplified and enabled by this isolation. And then we internalize that we are just different. Nobody understands us. Nobody cares about our needs.

• 11:41Abbey Sharp?

  Which is kind of drives us further away from people who do care and further into the arms of our ED where we feel safe. Um, and you know, I, I think that I, it's important for people to know how kind of de- so, what a de-socializing cycle that is. It's so common. Um, but in your experience, what happened that made you eventually take a pause? After you felt so high, so, so, you know, validated in, in this. Choice that you had made. What make you, what make you take a pause and kind of reevaluate that, that raw vegan lifestyle?

• 12:16Speaker 00

  One of them was, I mean, I've, oh, I got into vegetarian eating in the first place for environmental reasons. And when I looked at where the majority of my food was coming from, it was definitely not local. I mean, I, I did raw for just over a year and I'm in like. The Nordic region of the world, like, we're not exactly swimming in coconuts and bananas.

• 12:42Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 12:42Speaker 00

  So, just realizing the food miles that, um, that, you know, my calories were taking. Um, I just felt like it was probably not sustainable. It wasn't a good, also. I wasn't being a good role model and for us from a sustainability standpoint. And then the second thing was that I started getting really cold. I started getting so cold, like where I couldn't warm up and it's it's cold and damp in Denmark. And I also studied Chinese medicine and looking at food energetics, I'm in a cold damp environment and I'm eating cold damp food.

• 13:23Speaker 00

  So no wonder I felt cold and damp inside, like I just could not warm up ever. And it took a few weeks of that. And I was like, okay, I definitely something is going on. I really have to listen to my body. So yeah, I started slowly incorporating like I'd make a raw soup, but then I'd like warm it up on the stove, you know, like forty one degrees Celsius.

• 13:46Abbey Sharp?

  Baby steps, baby steps.

• 13:47Speaker 00

  Well, if you tip over, you know, like you're gonna kill those enzymes. So um. Yeah, gosh, I mean, it's so so crazy talking about this now. These these. These things are these things sort of unfold so slowly. It's just interesting to like. Have the perspective and look back and think, whoa, like, what was I thinking?

• 14:08Speaker 00

  But that was really it. I realized.

• 14:12Speaker 00

  The amount of. Yeah, miles my food was traveling to get to me. And then also just internally, I felt like something was not a hundred percent okay in there.

• 14:37Abbey Sharp?

  And did you eventually eat meat?

• 14:41Speaker 00

  I did. But that was.

• 14:44Abbey Sharp?

  How did that feel?

• 14:46Speaker 00

  Well.

• 14:47Abbey Sharp?

  Emotionally and physically.

• 14:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean. Fast forward.

• 14:51Abbey Sharp?

  Gosh.

• 14:52Speaker 00

  Like twelve years later. Hmm. Eating meat is pretty recent to me. Uh so I was vegetarian, vegan, raw vegan for twenty six years. Wow. And um I had a massive spinal injury six years ago, six and a half now. And my Chinese doctor kept telling me, you need to eat more nutrient dense foods, you need more minerals, you need more protein. And he recommended I start with broth and I would just cry every single time he mentioned this. I'd be like, you know, I'm not gonna do that. Like, this is my identity and I feel a career on this, so I'm definitely never gonna eat meat.

• 15:33Speaker 00

  And he's like, okay, well, I probably will keep recommending it. So just so you're aware. I was like, you can keep telling me, but I'm never gonna change. And.

• 15:45Speaker 00

  You know, after some time, he's a very wise man and I trusted him so deeply. And I was at the farmer's market one day and someone was selling chicken feet uh from a local farm here. And I knew that most of the collagen is concentrated in the feet of the chicken, plus it's a waste product. And they were selling this massive bag for five dollars. And I talked to the woman who was the farmer and I said, you know, I I'm I'm vegetarian. I haven't eaten meat in twenty six years, but I, you know, it's been recommended to me to start broth. So I'm interested in buying the feet, but I wanna come to your farm first and just look at the animals and see how they're raised. And she's like, oh, that's totally fine. Mm hmm.

• 16:29Speaker 00

  I went up and I visited the farm, saw these very, very happy animals. I really loved the way that she was practicing regenerative farming. And, you know, she said something that really stuck with me, which is that. We can't grow plants without these animals. And I was like, oh, right ecology.

• 16:51Abbey Sharp?

  Symbiotic relationship.

• 16:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, this thing that I was a part of, I was really looking at it under a microscope and

• 16:57Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 16:58Speaker 00

  And just like ignoring everything else around it.

• 17:00Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah.

• 17:01Speaker 00

  So the next week I bought a bunch of chicken feet and I made broth and I literally cried into the pot. Um, and I couldn't do it. Actually, I made this huge batch and I took a few sips and I just, my whole body, it just was a no. Um, but I gave the broth to my family and they were very happy about it. And then about a year later, I tried it again and it felt a little bit better this time, but it was all this identity piece. And I wasn't sure how I would even tell my audience that I was drinking bone broth. Like I just felt really overwhelming.

• 17:42Speaker 00

  And then another year goes by and I woke up one day and suddenly there were no feelings left. I just wanted a chicken and I didn't want broth. I wanted to roast a whole chicken and I wanted to eat it. And so, um, I connected with another farmer locally since then. And he was really excited because he was a former vegetarian and we got into some beautiful conversations again about ecology, about regenerative farming, which is what he practices. And so I got my first chicken from him, I roasted it and I ate that thing with my hands. Um, every cell in my body was extremely ready for that nourishment and I haven't looked back since.

• 18:25Speaker 00

  That was the turning point for me. And it was cool to suddenly just have a physiological craving. It wasn't just like. Sort of me thinking that this was going to be good for me on some level. It was my body saying, now's the time. We're not going to cry about this anymore. We're not going to have any.

• 18:45Abbey Sharp?

  Wow. Like, talk about intuition, like, the, like, primal intuition that.

• 18:51Speaker 00

  It was a primal intuition, for sure. And yeah, I, my husband was so funny, because he's like, you don't want to use a knife and fork. And I'm like, I don't even know what I'm doing. I just.

• 19:00Abbey Sharp?

  Right. It's like, I have no interest with this. It's like a, like, it's like a toddler getting cake for the first time. Just like, all hands on board. Oh, what a story. And, you know, just for our, our listeners here, I want to make it clear that this episode is not like proving that you need to eat meat. That's not the take home message here. It's simply that because you have been taught one particular way of eating is best, or the most clean or pure, as we see in a lot of these kind of more extreme diets. It doesn't mean that it's the best or healthiest for you. And it sounds like, you know, you're living proof of that. You, you had all intentions to avoid animal products and your body was saying, no, this is what I need.

• 19:45Abbey Sharp?

  Um, and you brought up your, your followers. And I think this is really an interesting point for me as a, as a fellow content creator as well. You know, you've got this big blog, you've had it all the while during your vegan journey, you've accumulated this huge following, uh, sharing vegan recipes. While you were deprogramming and healing and learning which foods actually felt best for you, which again, highly individualized. What was going on with regards to revealing this transition to your followers? Like, what, what were you thinking? What were they saying?

• 20:20Speaker 00

  I was really scared. Because this was a couple of years ago, and some of the big names in the vegan world started eating meat. And I felt slighted by them. I felt really let down. Which was so interesting to observe, because I was still in that place of like, I'm never going to eat meat, and I know that.

• 20:41Speaker 00

  And so seeing these people that I looked up to so much that were so just, yeah, that was their brand. I it was, I was just in shock. I was in disbelief that they had the courage, but also it almost felt insensitive to me, but I was in a really easily to be triggered place, I think.

• 21:00Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah.

• 21:01Speaker 00

  Um, sure. Again, in retrospect, it's very interesting, the emotions that came up when I saw someone that I looked up to eating differently and knowing that that's probably how some of my audience members were looking at me.

• 21:14Abbey Sharp?

  Mm hmm.

• 21:15Speaker 00

  And I thought, how can I let them down? And how can I make them feel the way I feel about this other person? It felt so complicated and so layered. At the same time, you know, I actually have never been a preachy vegetarian. I always just made vegetarian and vegan recipes. As I said, because it was all inclusive, because I I really just wanted everyone to be able to eat that.

• 21:39Abbey Sharp?

  Sure.

• 21:39Speaker 00

  Fish eaters, whatever, you know, whatever.

• 21:41Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah.

• 21:41Speaker 00

  It was, it wasn't really outwardly based on anything political, um, spiritual, whatnot. It was very much just a personal choice and I always owned that and I never pushed it on anybody. All I wanted to do was inspire people to eat more plants, which I still a hundred percent believe in, and that's.

• 22:00Abbey Sharp?

  For sure.

• 22:01Speaker 00

  Um, and you know, just make really nourishing food taste amazing. That's always been my baseline. So I had that, which was good, but it still felt like a really big jump and I didn't want to offend anyone and I didn't want to make people feel yeah, let down or disillusioned in some way.

• 22:21Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 22:21Speaker 00

  So it was actually was a really slow process. I ended up going on a friend's podcast, um, Tanya Papa-Nikolov, who owns Rainbow Mushrooms and.

• 22:35Speaker 00

  That podcast was kind of my coming out. And I had actually just gotten off the phone with the fourth surgeon that I was speaking to about spinal fusion. And this was like the fourth opinion. And I'd just gotten off the phone with him when we started recording this podcast. And, you know, I mean, the conclusion was you need to have spinal fusion surgery. You're never going to be the same again. And basically, every vertebrae is going to blow after you get this surgery. But, you know, your leg pain will go away because I also had severe sciatica. So I were getting on the phone with Tanya and she's like, are you ready to record? And I said, yeah, I mean, I'm crying, but I'm okay.

• 23:19Speaker 00

  And she's like, does this feel okay? And I said, honestly, there's no better time. I'm, I'm, I'm also quite an open person.

• 23:26Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah.

• 23:27Speaker 00

  I, I don't mind sharing because if we don't have our authenticity, like, what is the point of anything? So

• 23:36Speaker 00

  I shared what was going on with me physically for the first time because my conveniently, my back injury was invisible to most people. And I was incredibly good at hiding how much pain I was in. So nobody had any idea for years.

• 23:51Speaker 00

  At that point, I, I had been eating, I think, just chicken for about six months, which is where I thought I would stop. I was like, I'll just drink broth and have chicken and that's it.

• 23:59Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 24:00Speaker 00

  But I, I, yeah, I shared about what was going on with me physically and that I had started to eat meat. And I think because I shared it from a place of vulnerability. And also I'm doing this to heal my body. I've tried everything else. I mean, everything. And as soon as I started drinking broth daily and eating meat, the pain actually started to go away very quickly. Um, and I'm not crediting the diet change because there were many other things I was doing. But that was the last puzzle piece where I think I got the combination right.

• 24:37Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 24:37Speaker 00

  So it was just, you know, our diet is like the thing that affects us the most. So it was the last puzzle piece and then things really, I just really started to gain traction after that. Like it gave me a foothold to have a few days pain free. And then I had more energy to do physiotherapy and X, Y, Z. So it, it really catapulted me into a much better place. And getting back to your question, overall, people were incredibly understanding and supportive.

• 25:07Abbey Sharp?

  That's great.

• 25:08Speaker 00

  It was such a relief. I also think by the time I shared about it, I had really made peace with the change myself because I think that was the biggest hurdle. It was like not what other people were going to think of me. It was what do I think of me?

• 25:21Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 25:22Speaker 00

  And I had to get over all that programming and all those voices in my head that said, you know, that I was a failure, that I was going against some arbitrary promise that I had not made to anybody. Like, I mean, it's just so wild, the things that these stories we can concoct around our, our diet. So it was, um, it was incredibly liberating and I feel so lucky to have, you know, really gathered this community of people that are behind me. And that's when I really realized like how solid the Minor Roots community is and you know, I keep sharing recipes that are plant rich and delicious and nourishing, but I think people understand that,

• 26:07Speaker 00

  you know, also their own diets ebb and flow and that.

• 26:10Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 26:11Speaker 00

  Um, maybe this is just a period of time. Maybe it's not, maybe it's forever, but. Uh, the important part was that I was feeling really good finally.

• 26:21Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 26:22Speaker 00

  And it didn't matter why, you know?

• 26:24Abbey Sharp?

  Well, I'm so I I can imagine the fear and the anxiety that must come with not knowing how your huge audience is going to react to this big life change and like identity change because you know, this whole raw vegan world has become a bit of a an identity for for you, not to mention a part of a brand. Um, I also just feel like, how sad is it that we have to, you know, that the only way that that that change would have been accepted by the public is because your life depended on it like, you know, have had you just come out and said, I was just, you know what, I just wanted to eat meat. Um, would would you be accepted? And if not, why?

• 27:07Abbey Sharp?

  You know, like, why are we so obsessed ingrained and, you know, dedicated to the food choices of others? To the point that, you know, we're going to cancel them if they don't, you know, if they if they don't align with our own.

• 27:22Speaker 00

  I know, it's crazy.

• 27:24Abbey Sharp?

  It's crazy. This is.

• 27:25Speaker 00

  Really crazy.

• 27:26Abbey Sharp?

  It's very sad. Um, but I, you know, I really want to talk about your education for a moment because I know you went to the Institute for Holistic Nutrition School. Um, and I'm curious, like, within your community and your colleagues and your professors and your mentors and what was the messages that you received around conventional healthcare, conventional food, diet and disease, those interactions, et cetera?

• 27:52Speaker 00

  Well, that's a great question, Abbey. Um, I think

• 27:58Speaker 00

  when I was in it, when I was studying, it felt yeah, extremely like we were on the team again. I had this sort of mentality of like the raw vegan team. I mean, suddenly we're on the holistic nutrition team and it was like us against the world. Um, it. That education really opened my eyes to, I mean, so much, just physiologically how our bodies work, but also all the things that our bodies are sort of up against in our modern world, chemicals that we, you know, are just like everywhere that we really have no control over,

• 28:34Speaker 00

  EMFs, stress, whatever, stuff in our water. I mean, it's just, yeah, all that.

• 28:40Abbey Sharp?

  There's a lot to fear, apparently.

• 28:42Speaker 00

  There's a lot to be afraid of. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that

• 28:48Speaker 00

  I feel that my education perpetuated fear to motivate change. And that became apparent as the education went on because I felt like the students were changing. And I felt like there was even competition when we were bringing our lunch in every day and like looking at people's lunches, like who's the cleanest eater. It was a very clean eating focused. And, you know, when you start thinking about food in that way, your choices get pretty narrow.

• 29:22Abbey Sharp?

  Yep.

• 29:22Speaker 00

  And then there is so much fear around eating something that's not in the category that you wanted to be in. And, oh gosh, yeah, so it felt, it felt limiting in some ways. And I think there was a lot of fear involved in the education, unfortunately. And I will also say quite biased against an omnivore diet. It felt very much like, not you had to be vegetarian to be healthy, but the emphasis was definitely on plant-rich eating.

• 29:56Abbey Sharp?

  Which it should be, you know, yes, the emphasis should always be on plant-based eating, but it's the clean eating movement, the falsehoods of the clean eating movement that are grounded in this appeal to nature's fallacy that I, I think is problematic, right? You know, it's this idea that anything natural is good, that your body's capable of healing itself if you just eat this or take that. And, and so that breeds a lot of distrust in kind of these non-natural solutions.

• 30:27Abbey Sharp?

  Doctors, hospitals, big food, non-organic dieticians, like.

• 30:31Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 30:32Abbey Sharp?

  Oh, yeah.

• 30:32Speaker 00

  Real war against dieticians.

• 30:34Abbey Sharp?

  Real war against dieticians. A lot of holistic nutritionists will tell me and tell their followers, actually, that dieticians like me can't be trusted because we represent the antithesis to this all-natural, clean eating lifestyle. I have a lot of people who tell me dieticians are like fully shit-talked in their holistic educations. It's wild to me because I see us as being able to very nicely work together.

• 31:16Abbey Sharp?

  But I'm curious, um, do you think your education contributed or exacerbated those orthorexic tendencies?

• 31:25Speaker 00

  I do. I do. And I think it also made me have a lot of distrust in Western medicine.

• 31:32Abbey Sharp?

  Sure.

• 31:33Speaker 00

  And, I mean, gosh, I could tell you a lot of stories about how, after that education, how many things I tried to cure naturally. You know, like, nothing serious, of course, but whatever it was, and like, then it finally ending up at the doctor's office. And they were like, why did you leave this so long? Or why did you let this drag on? Or why weren't you listening to these symptoms? And I was like, well, I tried to do it naturally. Um, and I'm not a doctor, you know, I mean, I do know a lot about the body, but I'm not an internal medicine specialist.

• 32:07Abbey Sharp?

  Of course.

• 32:08Speaker 00

  Um, there's, you know, my, my skills and knowledge only goes so far. So I think that was also to my detriment because, I mean, I can even remember recommending to friends and family to not do this thing that their doctor was recommending, but maybe to go the route that, you know, I was proposing.

• 32:25Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah.

• 32:26Speaker 00

  You know, this is not like a 12-year education that I'm in, and it's. It's very multidisciplinary, so you're not going super deep into specific topics, although I did after studying in in the school because I became really fascinated with certain aspects of holistic wellness. So, yeah, I'd say that it exacerbated uh an already existing proclivity to go the natural route whenever possible. And it did that by by minimizing the effectiveness of Western or allopathic medicine.

• 33:03Abbey Sharp?

  Right. Yeah, and and there is so much research with we look at nutrition and naturopathic students and we do see clearly higher rates of endospheres like orthorexia, anorexia, and bulimia, as well as just a greater fixation on weight and food. So there's one study that I I always talk about that found that about fifty percent of nutrition professionals will exhibit orthorexic tendencies. And you know, there's probably a bit of a chicken and an egg situation because folks who are already kind of struggling in their relationship with food, they are just more likely to come into that that um industry. They want to learn more about it. But then when they get there, as you've kind of described, there's a lot of fear.

• 33:49Abbey Sharp?

  It reinforces and justifies that obsession by painting anything and many things as something to be feared when it comes to these foods. That was definitely my experience. And for me to actually recover and heal from my ED after I got through my dietetics um training, I actually had to cut ties with anything to do with nutrition for a couple of years. I was a dietitian, but I was like, I'm not working as a dietitian because it's I need to to clear to to get a a clean slate from this education. So I went into food reporting, local food journalism. I was going to, you know, I was having mocktails, cocktails, tacos, pizza, going to food events

• 34:31Abbey Sharp?

  and on a weeknight every week, every single night of the week, basically. I had to like go all in, but so that afterwards I could kind of be done with these this moralizing belief system about food. Um, and then I was better able to use my degree and work in the field from that that neutral standpoint. And that was so important for my own kind of my own personal and also professional journey.

• 34:59Abbey Sharp?

  But yeah, you you know, these things, E Ds don't turn off, right? You just constantly surveil.

• 35:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:06Abbey Sharp?

  Ever. You're yeah, you're constantly surveilling the surroundings. You're checking in with yourself. You're keeping an eye on triggers. It's exhausting. And I find that one of the frequent scenarios that I've watched a lot of very, very strict raw vegans run into is that once they come to the realization that the way they're eating doesn't feel good, as you did, then they swing the pendulum in the opposite direction. And then they go like full carnivore, like raw carnivore, full keto. And then they never touch a vegetable. So it's like the definition of clean and healthy just changes dramatically. But they're still stuck experiencing food in these black and white dichotomous terms.

• 35:47Abbey Sharp?

  And I'm curious for you, what stopped you from going cut like down that vegan to carnivore pipeline?

• 35:56Speaker 00

  It's so funny. It's so true, though. This is really, this really happens. It's fascinating. I can think of a few people right now, again, that I saw a transition from.

• 36:04Abbey Sharp?

  Yes.

• 36:05Speaker 00

  That I think I realized through this recovery process, how extreme I had been, even though I didn't realize it. And I was really resistant to ever return to that. And so I have found such a moderate place. And again, like my diet really, although it has changed a lot, the foundation really has it. It's like, I still eat the exact same way I always did. I just also have meat.

• 36:32Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 36:32Speaker 00

  So it's still, I mean, I'm still so focused on nutrient density, on fiber, on minerals, and on this synergistic effect of food of of ingredients. And so I guess.

• 36:51Speaker 00

  You know, it hasn't, I will, I can't lie, it has crossed my mind because I'm also really fascinated by different diets and how they're structured. And one of the reasons I tried raw veganism in the first place was simply out of curiosity. It's like, how will this make me feel? So I can't say that I haven't been curious about trying a more protein and fat centric diet with animal proteins. But Abbey, I just know that when I start thinking about food too much, it gets into a disordered place for me.

• 37:29Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah.

• 37:30Speaker 00

  And I'm pretty vigilant about it. I just know when like, a lot of my thoughts are preoccupied with food and not in like a relaxed way, in like a little more, like a restrictive way, in whatever that looks like. Um, I know that I gotta chill.

• 37:47Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah.

• 37:47Speaker 00

  Just gotta take a step back and breathe. Uh, because I really, I, I think having a full life means a balance of everything, taking up mental space. Um, and you know, I run my own business, I have a family, uh, I have a home, I have a community, and I want to have the capacity for all of those things in a balanced way. When food starts taking over, I have less space for the other things, which bring me a lot of joy and and pleasure and, and presence. So I, I haven't actually gone those roots, you know, the keto, paleo, carnivore diet, because

• 38:31Speaker 00

  I feel amazing right now. I've been living pain free for like two years now, and I'm no longer a candidate for surgery.

• 38:41Abbey Sharp?

  Wow.

• 38:42Speaker 00

  I feel so good, like literally euphoric in my body. Um, I am.

• 38:52Speaker 00

  I I really don't want to change anything and I don't want to start counting macros or calories or any of that stuff because it's a really slippery slope and

• 39:02Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 39:02Speaker 00

  taken me a long time to find the place where I care enough, but not too much. Cause as soon as I tip over that edge, then everything becomes imbalanced. So I just, I love myself too much to go down that path. And I can't say that I never will because again, I'm a curious person. How would I feel if I ate that way for a little while? For now, I'm just really happy and balanced and stable and nothing is worth disrupting that.

• 39:34Abbey Sharp?

  I love that. What a great way. What a great way to end off because that is exactly what I stand for. And in terms of, you know, finding your unique uh combination of foods and lifestyle and you know, therapy and uh for all the acts of self-care, what works for you? And it is so highly individualized. That's why following, you know, the advice of a TikToker online is never going to get to wit, get you where you've just described you being, which is just is is the ultimate goal. So I'm so happy that you have found something that works for you physically and emotionally and spiritually, socially. It sounds like you've you've ticked

• 40:18Abbey Sharp?

  all the boxes. So this is great. Um, and just thank you for sharing your story. I'm sure a lot of folks can identify with your experience as they are trying to find that middle ground between taking care of their health and obsessing over it to the point of sickness. So I'm definitely going to be leaving some links to your beautiful blog and your social media channels and your book. If you're looking for some gorgeous recipe inspiration, I definitely check it out. It's

• 40:47Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 40:48Abbey Sharp?

  amazing.

• 40:49Speaker 00

  Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

• 40:58Abbey Sharp?

  Loved that conversation with Sarah. And you know, one of the core themes that I heard in Sarah's story and that I also hear in so many other folks' orthorexia stories is this idea that what and how we eat is a mirror reflection of who we are, that it is our entire identity. To be clear, I am all for making a choice to go vegan, for example, but there can be a lot of potential dangers in becoming unwaveringly married to a specific diet label and allowing it to override every other aspect of who we are. Because as we saw with Sarah and also a number of other popular vegan influencers

• 41:40Abbey Sharp?

  like Minimalist Baker and Jordan Younger, formerly known as the Vegan Blonde, if you ever do make the choice, either willingly or semi unwillingly, to do something as seemingly benign as eat an egg, you are driven into a full-blown identity crisis. But being raw vegan, or carnivore, or clean eating healthy girl is not an identity. What foods you use to fuel your everyday activity do not define the kind of person that you are. And as I always say here, your diet should be the least interesting thing about you.

• 42:22Abbey Sharp?

  So if you're finding that you're really having a hard time letting go of the food rules that you've adopted as part of your identity, I wanted to share some quick little tips. Number one, make a list of all the most important things that you value in your life. If you're vegan for the animals, no one is asking you to give up on that empathy. If you've adopted a "clean eating lifestyle for health," no one is suggesting that you now only should eat fast food. Empathy for other living things and our health are really important values, but I want you to consider the other aspects of your life that you want for yourself.

• 43:04Abbey Sharp?

  Perhaps that may include a focus on family, culture or community participation, professional development, spirituality, personal growth, learning, et cetera. And with that, I want you to consider the ways that your food rules have encroached on these other important values and aspects of who you are. Has it made it difficult to participate in traditional family meals? Are you constantly feeling offended, triggered, or segregated from others who don't share the same diet? Has it distracted you from excelling in your job at work or a spiritual practice like meditation or prayer? Next, I want you to ask if your passion and value for health has actually brought you

• 43:49Abbey Sharp?

  said health. It's very possible that your knee-jerk defense response to this is that absolutely it has. Like, maybe you will tell yourself that your skin has cleared up, or you lost weight, or your IBS hasn't flared as much. But there may be other aspects to your health that you've lost because of your rigidity. Are you tired all the time? Are you cold? Is your hair thinning and falling out? It's also important to consider that health is more than just the absence of disease. So are you constantly thinking about the food that you can and cannot have? Are you feeling immense guilt if you slip up and eat something quote-unquote "unclean"?

• 44:31Abbey Sharp?

  Are you spending a ton of time or energy researching the healthfulness or acceptability of specific ingredients in available foods? Just imagine for a moment what your holistic sense of health would be like if that burden was lifted. Finally, consider if there's a way to honor those values in a more balanced, moderate way that doesn't compromise other aspects of your life. Reflect on what it might feel like to let go of the black-and-white mentality and live for a moment in the gray. For someone like Sarah, that looks like eating mostly plants complemented by certain animal products that fuel her body and have been produced in ways that align with her ethics.

• 45:16Abbey Sharp?

  For someone like myself who suffered from orthorexia, it means eating a variety of nutrient-dense foods rich in fiber, protein, and healthy fats, but allowing myself judgment-free access to less nutritious foods like ice cream and pizza that bring me joy. There's no blueprint to guide the journey from orthorexia to food freedom, so I always recommend working with a mental health professional to help you deprogram and untwist your diet from your identity and find that balanced lifestyle that allows all of your values to coexist in your life. I'm going to be leaving some links in the show notes to help you find the support that you may need. And on that note, that is all for today's episode of Bite Back.

• 46:01Abbey Sharp?

  Thank you again to Sarah for sharing her journey. I really do hope that this episode was informative and educational, and I would love if you would leave Bite Back a quick little review and also share it with some friends because it really does help me out as a new podcast to get the word out. Signing off with Science and SaaS, I'm Abbey Sharp. Thanks for listening.