Protein PANIC! How the Protein Craze Got Out of Control with Liam Layton

Here’s a run down of what we discussed in today’s episode: Why Protein Matters: Evidence-Based Benefits for Satiety, Muscle, and Metabolism Are We Actually Protein Deficient? Protein Intake vs. Calorie Intake The Rise of Protein Everything: Why Food Companies Are Cashing In When Protein Crowds Out Fiber and Other Essential Nutrients The Protein Health Halo: Why “High Protein” Doesn’t Equal Healthy The Problem With “Healthifying” Junk Food Cravings Protein Snacks Under the Microscope: When the Calories Don’t Add Up Protein Products That Actually Make Sense (And When They Don’t) How to Get the Benefits of Protein Without Obsession or Restriction References: Leidy, Heather J et al. “The effects of consuming frequent, higher protein meals on appetite and satiety during weight loss in overweight/obese men.” Obesity (Silver Spring, Md.) vol. 19,4 (2011): 818-24. doi:10.1038/oby.2010.203 Check in with today’s amazing guest: Liam Layton Tiktok: tiktok.com/@theplantslant Instagram: instagram.com/the_plant_slant Facebook: facebook.com/liam.fisherlayton Youtube: www.youtube.com/@theplantslant2431 Podcast: inmoderation.buzzsprout.com Disclaimer: The content in this episode is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is never a substitute for medical advice. If you’re struggling with with your mental or physical health, please work one on one with a health care provider. If you have heard yourself in our discussion today, and are looking for support, contact the free NEDIC helpline at 1-866-NEDIC-20 or go to eatingdisorderhope.com. • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •✨ Reach Your Weight & Health Goals — Without Dieting! Pre-order The Hunger Crushing Combo Method, Abbey’s revolutionary additive approach to eating well. Learn how to boost satiety, stabilize blood sugars, reduce disease risk, and improve your relationship with food — all while getting the best nutrient bang for your caloric buck. With 400+ research citations, cheat sheets, evidence-based actionable tips, meal plans, and adaptable recipes, The Hunger Crushing Combo Method is the only nutrition bible you’ll ever need. 👉 Pre-order today! 🛒 Where to Purchase: Amazon Barnes & Noble Amazon Kindle Apple Books Google Play Kobo Apple Books (Audiobook) Audible abbeyskitchen.com/hunger-crushing-combo • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •✉️ Subscribe to My Newsletters: Abbey’s Kitchen Newsletter 📘 Check out my FREE E-Books: Hunger Crushing Combo™ E-Book Protein 101 E-Book 👋 Follow me! Instagram: @abbeyskitchen TikTok: @abbeyskitchen YouTube: @AbbeysKitchen Blog: abbeyskitchen.com Book: The Mindful Glow Cookbook • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • 🎧 Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen — and leave us a review! It really helps support the show ❤️ 💬 If you liked this podcast, please like, follow, and leave a review — and let me know who you’d love to hear about next! ⭐ ⭐ ⭐⭐ ⭐ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

  They try and pick all of the lowest calorie things and the highest protein things and combine them and then try and convince me it's gonna be good.

• 0:43Abbey Sharp?

  Welcome to another episode of Bite Back with Abbey Sharp, where I dismantle diet culture rules, call out the charlatans spinning the pseudoscience, and help you achieve food freedom for good. Today on the podcast, we're diving into one of the biggest nutrition trends dominating the grocery aisles, social media feeds, and even our coffee cups: the protein craze. I think all of us can agree when I say protein has nailed the PR game. Of all the macronutrients or food components out there, protein is really the only one that hasn't been canceled at some point. I mean, fat was bad, carbs were bad,

• 1:25Abbey Sharp?

  but protein has always been diet culture's little darling. But as of 2025, our obsession with all things protein has really been kicked into high gear. Protein cereal, protein pasta, protein ice cream, protein creamers. If a food can hold a label, someone has slapped "high protein" on it. But are these protein-enhanced innovations necessary or even healthy?

• 1:53Abbey Sharp?

  To help me unpack all of this, I'm going to be joined by my friend and fellow nutrition educator, Liam Layton, better known as the Plant Slant. We're talking myths, marketing tactics, moralization and macros, and why adding protein to cookies doesn't equate them to a tofu steak. Now, before we get into it, a quick reminder that my brand new book, The Hunger Crushing Combo Method, which by the way, goes deep into the science on protein, is officially on bookshelves. And honestly, I've been overwhelmed by all of your feedback so far, and I cannot wait for you all to get your hands on a copy and tell me what you think.

• 2:38Abbey Sharp?

  So please check out the links in the show notes for where you can order. All right, friends, let's dive in.

• 2:51Abbey Sharp?

  All right, Liam, I'm so excited about this. Thank you so much for being just like a great ally in this crazy dumpster fire that is nutrition dogma online. Thank you.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  I try.

• 3:04Abbey Sharp?

  I'm very excited. Okay, so, all right, before we like air our grievances.

• 3:08Speaker 01

  Which is what I'm waiting for.

• 3:10Abbey Sharp?

  Yes, obviously, we got a lot of that to do. Just like all the protein maxing trends we're seeing going on right now. I want to start by just giving credit where credit is due because obviously protein is like very important. From your perspective, what are like the evidence-based reasons why, you know, focusing on protein and getting enough protein can be so helpful for a lot of folks?

• 3:34Speaker 01

  This, listen, protein is one of those things that started off with such great intentions and there's great reasons for it. And I love, it was like, I saw people focus on, I'm like, let's go, this is great. Oh my goodness, what have we created? It's Frankenstein's monster. So for me, basically, a lot of, okay, what is the goal of a lot of people, especially in America, right? Weight loss, that's what a lot of people are seeking, right? Protein, more satiating, that's why a lot of people lose weight on keto. Yes, you cut the carbs, yes, you eat more fat, but you're also eating more protein and that's one of the. The main reasons people lose weight, right? You're eating more protein, it's satiating. So it's great, like, you know, if you're trying to lose some weight, I think it's fantastic. Add a little protein to your meals. It can, it can make it weight loss easier. But then it just took over and I'm sure we'll get into that.

• 4:18Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah, I just feel like that's the way like nutrition trends work. Like diet culture loves to take something grounded in an ounce of truth and then make it so sensationalized and black and white and extreme. It's like, you know, it's, it can only be about protein. It can be the only thing that we, we think about in our diet. You know, like you said, we've got loads of great evidence that, you know, focusing on a higher protein diet can help to support healthy body composition, metabolism, longevity, protein is super satiating, helps support muscle mass, stabilizes blood sugars. And, you know, as far as like, people say like, can you like really, you know, is it really dangerous to be on a quote unquote high protein diet? You know, what, what are your thoughts on that?

• 5:00Speaker 01

  I mean, I mean, of course, if there's, there, for everyone's different, right? That we say that all the time. If you have renal failure, if you have kidney disease, of course, it's very important to always talk with your doctor. But if you're talking to someone who just has healthy kidneys, then adding, having some extra protein, probably going to be handled just fine by your kidneys. Now, that's low down the list. Let's put it that way. That's low down the list. That's, but that's the thing though, is like, okay, we get so worried about like, oh, too much of this. What is it replacing? That's my question.

• 5:33Abbey Sharp?

  Exactly.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  Because you add protein, something else has to go down. If one thing goes up, the other thing goes down. I'm not great at math, but I'm pretty sure that's the case. So that, that's more my concern is when people do the high protein diets.

• 5:46Abbey Sharp?

  Hundred percent. It's, it's basically like, what, what are we, what are we displacing? And in some cases, we may be displacing what we should be displacing, which might be like higher sugar. You know, low satiety, low nutrient foods, which is exactly what we want to use protein to replace. But obviously we don't want to be displacing fiber. We know he's placing healthy fats. We're going to talk more about that. But, you know, I, I think one of the, the, again, one of the Distortions, the truth that ends up getting kind of twisted here is this assumption or this suggestion that, you know, you know, we as North Americans are quote unquote protein deficient. So we need to get more, more, more, more, more. Do you want to talk a little bit about that?

• 6:28Abbey Sharp?

  Like, are we somehow as a society just not getting enough protein in our diets?

• 6:35Speaker 01

  I don't know where that came from. And I would be very curious where this idea that we're like, yeah, we're deficient protein. No, I'm not gonna say no one in America is deficient in protein, right? Of course, everybody's up in the, but for the most part, everyone's eating enough protein. In fact, like from what I've seen in the research, people are consuming more protein than they need to for a healthy, quote, healthy diet. It's really just, I think the, I think the problem is in the fitness space, it's this idea that you need to get one gram of protein per body weight has been pushed very hard. So if you're not getting that, then you're deficient in protein. That's when they tell you like you're, you don't even need anywhere near that for, for a healthy diet. And even, even

• 7:18Speaker 01

  if you're trying to, you know, build muscle, yes, getting closer to that is helpful. I think that, I think that's the thing is that idea has been put, it's like the eight glasses of water a day or the 10,000 steps. If you're not getting that, then you're water deficient or walking deficient or whatever. You know what I'm trying to say?

• 7:35Abbey Sharp?

  I know, I know. I think like one of the reasons for this myth is that, yeah, like when we look at the data, we very clearly see that most people are getting more than enough protein in absolute grams. And especially when we're talking about North Americans, you know, considering that, you know, a lot of North Americans could have some excess fat to lose. It's because, yes, they're getting enough protein, but they're also kind of getting excess calories with that protein.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  Like we're just gonna get everything, all of it.

• 8:03Abbey Sharp?

  Everything in that mix. So, you know, to me, where we see value here is about choosing more kind of efficient sources of protein that give you the best protein to calorie ratio. Because we do look at, when we look at the data, we do see that when we, for example, move from 10 to 15% of our total calories from protein. Protein, which is kind of the basically where most North Americans lie to about 20 to 30%. That's when, you know, in some cases, we may see greater fat loss, better satiety.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:34Abbey Sharp?

  Management, those kinds of benefits. So it's not just about absolute grams of protein. It's like, well, are you also, you can get an approach on your diet, eating Big Macs, but you're also getting a lot of refined carbohydrates and excess saturated fats.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. Did you know a slice of Costco pizza has more protein than a chicken breast?

• 8:53Abbey Sharp?

  Whoa.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. So that's why we were like, oh yeah, let me get my protein.

• 8:56Abbey Sharp?

  Hot protein diet. Yeah, exactly.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  Let's ignore the fact that it's 800 calories for one slice of pizza, you know? So like, yeah, that is, there's definitely truth to that, I think.

• 9:19Abbey Sharp?

  So this kind of brings me to the whole commercialization of protein in the ultra-processed snack food world. Because we've seen protein popcorn, protein cookies, protein Pop-Tarts, like candy, all the things. Like food manufacturers just adding protein to everything.

• 9:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 9:35Abbey Sharp?

  Why do you think it is that, you know, here we are, 2025, 2026, why are we seeing every damn food manufacturer trying to find a way to put protein in their products? Like, what is happening right now for protein to have this kind of peak moment?

• 9:50Speaker 01

  It's, it comes down to what it always comes down to. Okay, like, listen, I'm trying to be nice with this. Abbey, you and I, like, okay, how do I put this?

• 9:57Abbey Sharp?

  We can be sassy. We tell it like it is.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  Neither of us probably know what 6'7" means. Let me put it that way. We're not the youngest. Let me just like, let me just say that. I'm an older guy. Like, I'm especially on like TikTok. I am ancient.

• 10:10Abbey Sharp?

  I know. We are geriatric TikTokers here.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  But this is always how it's been. So if we think back to like, let's take eggs. Let's take eggs, right? How, how, like, let's say 10, 15 years ago, how many pasture-raised eggs were there on the shelf? One option, maybe? And now there's 37 and a half out there. Like, half of it is like pasture-raised. Free range, all of that stuff. And that is because people were calling for it. They were like, hey, I learned about how chickens are treated and I want something that has, you know, the chickens are treated the less poorly. And then we got all these eggs. And that's what has come down with the protein. People have heard protein's important and now it's in everything.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  All your cereals and oh, the sum of all, I've tried so many different protein things. Can I call out things by name?

• 10:59Abbey Sharp?

  Yes, I want you, I want you to call them out. I want you to call.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh.

• 11:04Abbey Sharp?

  We're gonna call them out.

• 11:06Speaker 01

  Two things that are the worst tasting things that I've ever had that made me go, how, how did this get past research and development? There's no way. And that is one is eat your mouth off cereal by, I think it's like Kellogg.

• 11:21Abbey Sharp?

  Okay.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  So it's like 23 grams of protein per serving. It tastes like sawdust had sex with cardboard and you just, and I, it's, and then you put, I don't know, it's so unbelievable. It made me physically gag. I, I had one bite and I threw out the rest of the box. And it's like, and the thing is like, it's $12 or like $10.

• 11:45Abbey Sharp?

  Expensive.

• 11:45Speaker 01

  For a box of cereal and those cereals, there's like five servings in there. I'll just take my Frosted Mini Wheats or whatever, the off brand, probably cheaper. But that and oh my goodness, I think, I don't remember which one, but it was, uh, it was an oatmeal cream pie that they tried to make high protein. Oh, my goodness. It tastes, you know, like, okay, okay, people say like, that tastes like chemicals. And we're like, oh, everything's made of chemicals. But when people say that tastes like chemicals, that is the epitome of what they are talking about that. There's like that and like Gatsby chocolate, which some people like that, but that's like a, it's like a low calorie chocolate. Yeah, it's a low calorie. I don't know if it's really high protein.

• 12:23Abbey Sharp?

  That. I haven't tried any of these, but I'm Canadian. So like, we don't get a lot of these things, but whenever I go to the States, I like, I bulk up on all these kind of specialty snack foods, just like see what the hype is about. Most are really bad.

• 12:37Speaker 01

  Really bad.

• 12:38Abbey Sharp?

  I bought some protein Pop Tarts the other day. I, I don't remember the brand, but I brought.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  Very probably or or

• 12:44Abbey Sharp?

  Oh, yes, it was legendary.

• 12:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 12:47Abbey Sharp?

  I was like, this sounds very. Yeah, a hundred percent sadness. I even gave them to my kids. My, my son, who's like, he was like, a pastry with frosting on it for breakfast, mama.

• 12:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's go protein.

• 12:59Abbey Sharp?

  And then he took one bite and he was like, I don't like it, mom. Like, you eat it.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  When it says on the box, do not put in toaster or you will burn down your house, you know it's gonna be a rough time. Like, it says, don't put in toaster because of, and it's, yes.

• 13:15Abbey Sharp?

  It's a toaster, it's a toaster pop tart.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  No, but it's not, though, is the problem. And they're like, there's like flings and, and flings is another one and legendary. I've tried all of these. And like, if you're like, deep into like, the fitness community and you're like, all about gym and like, you microwave it, you can force yourself to eat it and I've done it. But for the most part, all of these are just really bad. They're just so unbelievably bad. Yeah, it has protein, but that, I, that's my, that's what's been driving me crazy is like, a dessert, it's supposed to be sugar and fat. And you can work that into a healthy diet. It's fine.

• 13:54Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah, I, I often find with a lot of these kind of, quote unquote, healthified snack foods, like, this often causes what I often call like, the satisfaction hunter, like, eating around a craving. So like, let's say that you really just like, want a toaster strudel or a pop tart, like the OG. Okay, I'm gonna eat the protein version. That does not hit. Like, you can't even finish it, it's so bad. Then you plow through some like, protein crackers. No. Then the protein ice cream. Uh-uh. Protein cookies. Then you're like, fuck it. I'm gonna eat the pop tart that I actually want and you plow through an entire box. So you're not like, emotionally satisfied on these foods, on the healthified version. And if you, if you don't actually enjoy it, it's just going to leave you a little bit longing and it just makes you more susceptible to this kind of binge, basically.

• 14:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:40Abbey Sharp?

  It's, uh, rough out there.

• 14:41Speaker 01

  I, I've got to just get, I get like, a small bowl and I get some like, some chocolate cherry chip ice cream. Oh, it's one of my favorites. And then I'm good with that, but like. And that's, okay, here's the thing, here's the thing, here's the thing, here's the thing. You know, so like with, with the pints of ice cream that are like high protein or whatnot, it's almost like they're daring you to eat the whole pint, right? Like, they literally, because they literally like plastered on the front, only 290 calories and 80 grams of protein, whatever, like it's all right there. So it's like, it's, it feels like they're daring you to eat the whole pint.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  And it's like, instead of that, just a little bit of like ice cream made with, with milk and sugar.

• 15:28Abbey Sharp?

  Hundred percent.

• 15:28Speaker 01

  Deliciousness, it's fine.

• 15:30Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah, I, I kind of forgot about all those terrible, um, like low calorie, protein rich ice creams. And because you're right, like they, they, they advertise the macros as if you will, you should eat this entire very large, like abnormally large portion, like you wouldn't normally, I would say.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  Eat a whole pint of Ben and Jerry's or whatever, right?

• 15:51Abbey Sharp?

  Exactly, like you wouldn't sit down to a Ben and Jerry's pint every single night before you eat that.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  I would totally do that, like, I get it, there are people out there that want to sit there and eat the whole pint. And that's why they created this, like Halo Top, and all of these ones. Halo Tops, oh, they've changed, it's a little better, but it's still.

• 16:08Abbey Sharp?

  Oh, good.

• 16:08Speaker 01

  Not, I'm telling you, I listen, I'm brave, I'm not sponsored, but like the Ninja Creamy, that's one of the few things I think I've actually done. It's, it's very good, that is very good.

• 16:17Abbey Sharp?

  You can actually put, you know, whole food ingredients in, you can, you know, put Oreo cookies in if you want to make it taste like, you know, an Oreo.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  Take a fair life shake, throw it in there, and basically that's all, oh, it's good, but, okay.

• 16:27Abbey Sharp?

  It's good.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  Other things, like, yeah, they're like daring you to eat the whole thing because there are people that, that want like, I want the whole pint. But I think for, for most people, if you're just like, hey, you can have a serving of, you know, whatever, you know, full fat, full sugar ice cream. And like, I think serving sizes are a weird thing, especially in America, like, I don't even know, okay. I remember when, when ice cream was like half a cup, they're like, that's, that's, that's the serving, half a cup. We were like, what are you talking about? No one eats, no one eats half a cup of ice cream, so they upped it to like two thirds of a cup. And then I was like, okay, that's, that's at least a little better. So like, I think we're moving in the right direction to just kind of show like, hey, this is a reasonable portion of this actual dessert that you can have and then you'll be satiated with that, hopefully.

• 17:13Abbey Sharp?

  Hopefully, yeah, I do find with those kinds of, anytime that you are being essentially nudged, like you said, to eat the entire pint, or I've seen kind of like cauliflower, like protein pizzas where you are kind of encouraged to eat the whole pizza in one go. And again, like, these kinds of messages teach people to override their innate body wisdom in a lot of ways, right? Like, you're just being, you're just eating by numbers, essentially.

• 17:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:39Abbey Sharp?

  You're, you're just going through the motions based on what the numbers say on the package and you're like, uh, I'm not actually that hungry for this entire, like this entire pizza that has 50 grams of protein in it. But it says on the box that I gotta eat the whole thing to get these macros.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  Have you seen the Quest Pizza? Have you seen the Quest Pizza?

• 17:58Abbey Sharp?

  I've seen it.

• 17:59Speaker 01

  And not, I mean, listen, I'll give them that. They also throw so much fucking fiber into there. I don't know if you've seen this, but it's like 38 grams of fiber for one pizza.

• 18:07Abbey Sharp?

  This is my actual issue with it because it's like, who is gonna feel good eating 38 fucking grams of inulin or like oligosaccharide, like, you know, any kind of added isolated fiber.

• 18:20Speaker 01

  The whole pizza's only 600 calories, though. The whole pizza, and I want a whole pizza. So I think that's where, I think that's where it runs from.

• 18:27Abbey Sharp?

  They know they're demographic. So I also want to kind of talk about some of the kind of like most egregious examples of these like protein recipes, because you've kind of made a name for yourself, testing these things out online. What are some of the like really rough ones that you've seen pop up on your feed that you're like, oh god, this is not going to be good? And you try it and you're like, fuck no.

• 18:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a good question and there's so many. But my thing is, especially when it comes to desserts, like we're talking about desserts here, is there seems to be this idea that you have to remove any sort of flour, like any flour is terrible. And so that's what they all try and do. So like, we're starting off with a two cups of egg whites. I'm like, I'm.

• 19:12Abbey Sharp?

  Yes.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  This is gonna be rough. This is gonna be rough. And then what, but we're gonna put in a fourth a cup of coconut flour. That's not saving shit. That's gonna, that texture is gonna be awful. And that's what I see a lot of the times is just like they try and pick all of the lowest calorie things and the highest protein things and combine them and then try and convince me it's gonna be good. And even when I say it's bad, that's the thing is people like, well, you didn't make it right. You, you gotta, you gotta cook it for thirteen and a half minutes and let it cool for the other six and a half. And then you have to add these specific things, not though, I'm like, it's bad. It's not, I'm not gonna like it. Listen, if other people like it, that's totally great. But if you take egg whites and protein powder and mix them together, I'm not gonna like it.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna like it if you just bake that. And then it's, it needs, for me desserts like need some high calorie things. You can add like protein to things, I think, just fine. Like you wanna make muffins or something and you wanna add some, I don't know, peanut butter powder? Or something like that to bulk up. Fine, fine. But don't take all of the highest protein, lowest calorie things combined together and try and sell me on that because it's going to be awful.

• 20:22Abbey Sharp?

  Yep, yep. I mean, I, I'm just gonna call out Little Sipper today because I'm pretty sure everything she makes. It starts exactly like you just described. It's just eggs and then like one other ingredient. Like I saw her post for a bread recipe, again, of obviously no flour, with just eggs and almond butter. That is not fucking bread. That is, that is like, that is so far removed from bread, you know? And like you said.

• 20:49Speaker 01

  Have you seen carnival bread? Have you seen carnival bread?

• 20:52Abbey Sharp?

  What is it, like beef?

• 20:55Abbey Sharp?

  It's like ground beef?

• 20:56Speaker 01

  Slab of beef.

• 20:58Abbey Sharp?

  Like with butter on it?

• 21:00Speaker 01

  Listen, I'll give them, they do try and make something that resembles, resembles bread. It's not bread, but no, it's more like egg whites and like cheese. There's like certain types of cheese they'll use and it's, it's, you, you could see like, so you're like, that's not bread for sure. But like they, again, yeah, you try, oh, oh, oh, oh, I remember one ingredient. You remember? Okay, you wanna? Know what one of the ingredients in in

• 21:24Abbey Sharp?

  I want to know.

• 21:24Speaker 01

  Okay, okay. It is chicken flour, chicken flour. So hard to get, extremely expensive. Yes. So they take chicken, they dehydrate it down. They remove all of the H2O's there is in it. And then it's just this powder that is just basically chicken. And they throw it in with egg whites and like cheese. And people were asking me to make it. I'm like, yeah, fuck. I'm not paying

• 21:51Abbey Sharp?

  Who has time for that?

• 21:52Speaker 01

  $100 for like chicken flour. It's not happening. And so, yeah, they try and could because that's the thing is like these with like carnivore and all these super restrictive diets. People of course are craving for normal human foods that we've been eating for as long as we've been humans. Well, maybe not as long, but a long time, like bread and whatnot. So they try and recreate these things and it's never the same. It's always just some kind of just, yeah, Frankenstein's monster version of said thing.

• 22:21Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah. I mean, if the carnivore diet itself and like literally just existing on that was not reason enough for people to have very poor retention on a diet like that. Having to spend your entire day making fucking flour out of chicken breasts. That is gotta, that's gotta put the nail in the coffin for, for a lot of dieters.

• 22:41Speaker 01

  But you can, but Abbey, you can buy these things. Have you heard of the, do you know the, the carnivore bar? Have you heard of the carnivore bar? Okay. So it's for one bar, it's only $16. It's only $16 for a bar. So you can just buy that. And I'm not joking. It is $16. Now, if you buy the 12 pack, then it's only like a hundred and something dollars. So it does come down a little bit. But yeah, you can just buy these things and then you're good. Now you're doing the carnivore diet.

• 23:20Abbey Sharp?

  So, so this, folks, if you're wondering why people lose weight on the carnivore diet, is because you cannot afford to eat more than one carnivore bar per day.

• 23:31Speaker 01

  And they're all eating the grass-fed grass. You know, everything's grass-fed and pasture-raised. So like, who can afford all that? I, I, I, many, yeah, we kind of got off topic on the carnivore thing, but I guess because it leads there, because of protein. But yeah, sure, protein, yes, too much.

• 23:46Abbey Sharp?

  And, okay, I, I, I just want to like, say, I don't want to paint all these things with a, with a bad paintbrush. Paintbrush, whatever.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  Bad paintbrush.

• 23:55Abbey Sharp?

  I don't want to paint all the products with the same brush. I think, you know, my kind of takeaway here is that like, if you're already eating Eggo waffles every single day, switching to the protein Eggo waffle, fine. It's not a bad idea, you know? You got an extra six grams of protein. Is it going to change your body? Absolutely not. I think where the issue really lies with a lot of these kind of protein-enriched foods is that, um, you know, in a lot of cases, A, you might be getting a ton more calories in these things. Like, I was looking at the, the Lenny and Larry's Protein Cookie the other day that has 16 grams of protein in it. It also has 420 calories in it, you know? Versus, you can get 16 grams of protein with, you know, in less than 100 calories worth of protein powder,

• 24:40Abbey Sharp?

  or Greek yogurt, or queso cheese, or whatever. So, yeah, you're getting more protein, maybe, but you're also getting a lot of other calories.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  I think this, now we're getting into the problem here. One of the problems, there's many problems. One of the problems is, is when we ask for protein, then there's, there's no rules, there's no regulations on this. So companies can, right? So there, I don't know if you've seen, there are protein Pop-Tarts that are made by, by, who makes Pop-Tarts? I don't remember who makes Pop-Tarts, but they are Pop-Tarts. Kellogg's?

• 25:06Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 25:06Speaker 01

  We'll just say, they probably, they make everything. So, yeah, it's Pop-Tarts, but they are protein versions. They have 10 grams of protein for 400 calories. So it's not actually a protein Pop-Tart, it just says protein on the label. There's Skippy Protein Peanut Butter, that again, has 10 grams instead of seven. I tried it, it tastes awful. So even if they're adding a few more grams, it doesn't even taste good. But they're just, they're saying anything has protein. Like the Lenny and Larry's is a great example. They did very well with their marketing, great marketing. They just added wheat and they added a little bit more wheat and then it's protein. I think, I'm pretty sure corn has more protein per calorie than a Lenny and Larry's cookies, or at least it's close, last time I checked.

• 25:43Abbey Sharp?

  Hundred percent.

• 25:44Speaker 01

  So yeah, it's, that's one of these issues is now there's no regulations and you can just put protein on anything. So it, it actually doesn't matter what, what, uh, oh, what is it? The, um, the, what's a peanut butter and jellies, the ones, the little like in the freezer section?

• 25:58Abbey Sharp?

  Uncrustables.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Uncrustables, they have protein versions now, which are like two more grams. So yeah, all of these things now have protein.

• 26:04Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah, I, I think what, what bothers me about these health halos that we see on front of label packaging is that it tricks people into thinking that, oh, I can replace my cottage cheese or Greek yogurt in the morning with a protein cookie because hey, it says protein out front. We're not, we're, we're losing our critical thinking skills. We're losing our label reading skills because we are just seeing that protein, protein, protein. And we're automatically assigning it to be a good choice. When like we talked about the, whether it's a, like a protein cookie, Lenny and Larry's, or you know, a protein pop tart, these foods still contain a lot of sugar, perhaps a lot of calories that go with it.

• 26:44Abbey Sharp?

  It just feels like a really huge waste of proteins, like satiety superpowers in a lot of cases.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  Because you're not actually getting it. You're getting like, you, you just have, I would say for, for most people, you're better off just picking a few protein sources that you like. You know, you can just look up, you're like, oh, yogurt, the tuna, the edamame, whatever it is. And then just kind of seeing how can I get those into my diet? I like those. What can I add to this other thing I like? You're much better doing that than searching around and trying to find this new latest protein thing. That's going to be really expensive and probably tastes like shit.

• 27:20Abbey Sharp?

  Hundred percent. And generally, like basically always more expensive than, than the OG.

• 27:26Abbey Sharp?

  Are there any products that you've tried that are like protein and rich or like advertised as high protein that you actually think were pretty good?

• 27:34Speaker 01

  The only, so like they do a pretty good job with shakes, like drinks with protein. I think do pretty well, your Fairlifes, your Nuries. I've, I have a bunch of, I buy them, I stock up at like Sam's, or whenever I throw them in the fridge. I have one here and there and that's really nice because it's 30 grams of protein for 150 ish calories.

• 27:54Abbey Sharp?

  Exactly.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  Super easy. You throw those on, I love those sort of things. I love the dry roasted edamame, like I'll snack on those. Again, get your fiber as well. So you, it's, there's, you, there's, there are a few things that I think really, we talked about the, the ninja creamy. Well, I think it's really like the only gimmick, I'm going to call it a gimmick because it only does one thing. Any gadget that does one thing, I kind of just call it gimmick. I think it's the only gimmick, device, product, whatever, that I'm like, okay, that's worth the, the money it costs, which is still like $150, whatever. So it's kind of expensive, but it is really good. So there's a few of them. Most of them, I think you're better off just finding the foods you like and just add protein to them with the other things you like.

• 28:34Abbey Sharp?

  I a hundred percent agree. I was actually going to say the edamame snacks, those little crispy crunchy edamames or the chickpeas. I'm obsessed with those. I put those in everything. Fairlife milk. Okay. The only controversial one that I, the only controversial one that I do kind of like are the Quest protein chips. And I think that I like them. I mean, they're not great, but they have pretty good ratio. They're like 18 grams of protein for like 140 calories. And when I was pregnant, I had like a strange craving. I hate, I had a real aversion to all protein, but I had a craving for salt and vinegar chips. So these saved me because I was just like.

• 29:10Speaker 01

  They don't have a salt and vinegar version though. What were you eating?

• 29:12Abbey Sharp?

  They used to, they used to when my first.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  No, they didn't.

• 29:15Abbey Sharp?

  They used to.

• 29:16Speaker 01

  You liar.

• 29:16Abbey Sharp?

  I don't know why, I swear to God, I lived on, I lived off them my first pregnancy. And then by the time my second came around, it was gone. Yeah. So they, unfortunately they were great. But to wrap up, I'm hoping you can kind of leave our audience with just like a tip on how to maximize the benefits of like a protein rich diet without getting into obsession or restriction.

• 29:39Speaker 01

  Hmm. That's a tough question because it relies so much like on the person, like everybody really when it comes to protein is different. But again, I think I would just have to go back to. Try some different products. Like I like, another one is Bear Bell's protein bars. I got the whole, I got a whole bunch of them right in front of me. I keep them on my desk. I keep them in my desk. So you'll find some products you like. Don't hyper fixate on those products. Find one or two, keep those in the house, right? Then have, find the other whole or more minimally processed, whatever sources of protein, the milks, the yogurts, the whatever it is. And then, you know, figure out how you can add those to meals.

• 30:19Speaker 01

  I like curries with beans. Like, oh, I'll add yogurt to that. That's super easy, whatever. I'll, and then, you know, just as long as you're not doing crazy things with cottage cheese, people. Please stop. Please stop turning cottage cheese-

• 30:34Abbey Sharp?

  Like, microwave cottage cheese is not pizza, okay?

• 30:37Speaker 01

  It's not brownies. It's not cake. Every time I see one of these, it's cottage cheese. I like it. Just stop doing these things to it. It's not meant for that. So yeah, I like cottage cheese just with a, like a normal person sitting in front of my fridge with the door open and a spoon. That's how normal people eat cottage cheese. And then I go to bed, okay?

• 30:59Abbey Sharp?

  Hundred percent.

• 31:00Speaker 01

  Don't go crazy.

• 31:02Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah, I, I love those suggestions. I, I think that there are so many ways that you can amp up other, you know, naturally nourishing foods without displacing other nutrients. By kind of adding in little boosts of protein where that, where, where it makes sense. For example, like pureeing some white beans into your soup. Or adding, you know, some edamame, puree that with some avocado on your avocado toast. There's just like so many tiny little things, but when it comes to-

• 31:34Speaker 01

  I like Tootamack. That's a good one. You ever put Toot-

• 31:36Abbey Sharp?

  Love that.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  You put the tuna in the machine, you can add peas to it too. Guess what? Protein, fiber, boom, problem.

• 31:41Abbey Sharp?

  Protein and fiber, baby. Hunger crushing combo. That's what we're all about here. I love this. Thank you so much, Liam. I'm going to be leaving links to where everybody can find you and I really appreciate your time and-

• 31:52Speaker 01

  Just Google cottage cheese guy. Just Google cottage cheese guy. I'm the first result. I'm not joking. It's true.

• 31:57Abbey Sharp?

  No.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  Just Google cottage cheese guy. That's how people tell me they find me.

• 32:00Abbey Sharp?

  That's protein royalty right there. So congratulations.

• 32:05Abbey Sharp?

  Oh my God, I love Liam's energy. Very rarely do I get to shoot the shit with someone who I feel is operating at my kind of energetic wavelength, so I love that. And as I alluded to at the top of our interview, you know, the benefits of a high protein diet is well documented in the literature. And I talk about this between several chapters of the book, The Hunger Crush and Combo Method. But I thought I would share some more little factoids on why protein is having a media moment, even if the execution in the snack food aisle leaves something to be desired. So first of all, protein is king of the satiety hierarchy.

• 32:48Abbey Sharp?

  It stimulates satiety hormones like GLP-1 and leptin, quiets our hunger hormones like Graylin, slows digestion to even at our blood sugars, increases calorie expenditure through digestion, and supports our metabolism through fueling our muscle. It also seems to quiet food noise and cravings better than other food components. So in one study, for example, they found participants that were on a high protein diet with 25% of total calories from protein, experienced greater fullness levels throughout the day, and significantly less food preoccupation and desire for late night snacking compared

• 33:31Abbey Sharp?

  to diets with 14% of calories from protein. Research has also found that doubling the proportion of your diet that's coming from protein from 10 to 15% to 20 to 30% protein helped result in a threefold bump in fat loss and a 400 calorie deficit completely spontaneously. That is 400 fewer calories consumed without ever letting the word diet or restriction leave your lips. And this is why protein is such a critical component of The Hunger Crush and Combo, especially for folks who are trying to maintain a healthy body composition by minimizing excess visceral fat.

• 34:14Abbey Sharp?

  And building, or at least maintaining muscle mass without obsessing over the details. In the book, I offer a big cheat sheet on some ideas on how to access what I call a full dose of protein, AKA around 20 to 30 grams in the most efficient ways. Because as I alluded to earlier in our conversation, we all get enough protein for our base needs, but it is about choosing higher quality, more efficient sources of protein that get us the best satiety for our caloric buck. In other words, a chicken breast is going to be a far more efficient source of protein

• 34:54Abbey Sharp?

  than a protein cookie with 12 grams each of sugar and fat and over 400 calories. Likewise, you get better protein bang for your caloric buck by choosing Greek yogurt over quinoa as your sole protein source. The good news is, we generally don't need to micromanage any of the details when we are choosing more whole food efficient sources of hunger crushing compounds. Because these foods keep us fuller longer and naturally edge out some of the less satiating, less nutritious foods. And I go into far more detail on best practices, tips and strategies in the Hunger Crushing Combo Method

• 35:37Abbey Sharp?

  to help you make choices that fuel your body and your goals without it running your life. So again, I've got links in the show notes to where you can order your copy today. And on that note, a big thank you to Liam for helping me bite back against problematic diet culture. Signing off with Science and SaaS, I'm Abbey Sharp. Thanks for listening.

• 36:05Speaker 03

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