“You’re Glorifying Obesity” and Other Fatphobic Lies about Body Positivity with Lauren Hope Krass of the Good Bodies Podcast

Happy new year, friends! In today’s episode of Bite Back with Abbey Sharp, I will be talking to Lauren Hope Krass. Lauren is a comedian, a contributor to Betches media, and the co-host of the Good Bodies podcast - formerly called Diet Starts Tomorrow. She’s also a body positivity advocate and a fat activist and I’m so excited to have her on our show! Today we will be unpacking common misunderstandings and criticisms of the body positivity movement (ie. that it “glorifies obesity”) and how it differs from movements like fat activism and fat acceptance. Lauren also discusses how fat activism and body positivity is important for everyone, including straight size (smaller bodied) folks. We’re going to chat about how weight loss drugs like ozempic are affecting the fat acceptance community. Lauren also shares some tips about how straight sized folks can act as allies to their larger bodied friends. I finish off by discussing how fat phobia affects people in larger bodies, and how this differs from thin privilege.. No matter what your body looks like, where you are in your body acceptance journey, this is an essential listen any time of year, but especially as we’re currently in some toxic new years resolution waters. References: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6565398/#:~:text=More%20than%20three%20in%20five,are%20well%20documented%2C%20Alberga%20said. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1038/oby.2003.142 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4381543/ https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2016.02063/full https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2458-12-525 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1059601108321518 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21820369/ Check in with today’s amazing guest: Lauren Hope Krass. Lauren is a comedian, a contributor to Betches media, and the co-host of the Good Bodies podcast - formerly called Diet Starts Tomorrow. Follow her content at: https://www.laurenhopekrass.com/ https://betches.com/podcast-channel/good-bodies/ https://www.tiktok.com/@laurenhopekrass https://www.instagram.com/laurenhopekrass/ Disclaimer: The content in this episode is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is never a substitute for medical advice. If you’re struggling with with your mental or physical health, please work one on one with a health care provider. If you have heard yourself in our discussion today, and are looking for support, contact the free NEDIC helpline at 1-866-NEDIC-20 or go to eatingdisorderhope.com. Don’t forget to Please subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts and leave us a review! It really helps us out. Check out my 2-in-1 Plant Based Probiotic Protein Powder, neue theory at www.neuetheory.com or @neuetheory • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •✨ Reach Your Weight & Health Goals — Without Dieting! Pre-order The Hunger Crushing Combo Method, Abbey’s revolutionary additive approach to eating well. Learn how to boost satiety, stabilize blood sugars, reduce disease risk, and improve your relationship with food — all while getting the best nutrient bang for your caloric buck. With 400+ research citations, cheat sheets, evidence-based actionable tips, meal plans, and adaptable recipes, The Hunger Crushing Combo Method is the only nutrition bible you’ll ever need. 👉 Pre-order today! 🛒 Where to Purchase: Amazon Barnes & Noble Amazon Kindle Apple Books Google Play Kobo Apple Books (Audiobook) Audible abbeyskitchen.com/hunger-crushing-combo • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • •✉️ Subscribe to My Newsletters: Abbey’s Kitchen Newsletter 📘 Check out my FREE E-Books: Hunger Crushing Combo™ E-Book Protein 101 E-Book 👋 Follow me! Instagram: @abbeyskitchen TikTok: @abbeyskitchen YouTube: @AbbeysKitchen Blog: abbeyskitchen.com Book: The Mindful Glow Cookbook • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • 🎧 Don’t forget to subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen — and leave us a review! It really helps support the show ❤️ 💬 If you liked this podcast, please like, follow, and leave a review — and let me know who you’d love to hear about next! ⭐ ⭐ ⭐⭐ ⭐ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I get so tired of people talking about like, oh, the pressure to be thin. Like, it is not the pressure to be thin. It is the pressure to not be fat. Like, we need to keep this in the conversation that it is anti-fat bias. It's fat-phobic. Like, this is the cornerstone of diet culture, people.

• 0:18Abbey Sharp?

  Welcome to another episode of Bite Back with Abbey Sharp, where I dismantle diet culture rules, call it the charlatan spinning the pseudoscience, and help you achieve food freedom for good.

• 0:36Abbey Sharp?

  We are back and I wanted to wish everybody a very, very, very happy new year. I hope you all had a restful and joyful holiday season. I just got back from a little warm holiday with the kiddos down south. So definitely was so nice to get a little bit of sun before coming back to the darkness that is Canada. No offense to my Capicorns and Aquarius friends, but January is not my favorite month. And not just because of like the shitty weather here in Canada, but because it is the month when diet culture messages become obnoxiously loud. And most of you guys know that I'm vehemently against the whole new year, new you mantra

• 1:19Abbey Sharp?

  that we will be inevitably hearing multiple times over the next few weeks. And I think just like being online at this time of year can be very triggering for a lot of folks who have been working on healing their relationship with their body and food. So, you know, if that sounds like you, maybe consider taking a little pause on your social media scrolling routine for like the next month or so, and just sticking to audiobooks or podcasts like this week's amazing episode. How'd you guys like that plug?

• 1:56Abbey Sharp?

  All right. Well, my guest today is the hilarious and super smart Lauren Hope Krass. Lauren is a comedian, a contributor to Betches Media, and the co-host of the Good Bodies Podcast, formerly called Diet Starts Tomorrow. She's also a body positivity advocate and a fat activist, and I am honestly so excited to have her on our show. So today we'll be unpacking common misunderstandings and criticisms of the body positivity movement. We're going to be chatting about how weight loss drugs like Ozempic are affecting the fat acceptance community. We're going to talk about how straight-sized folks can act as allies to their larger body friends,

• 2:41Abbey Sharp?

  and we're going to be talking some hard truths about thin privilege. No matter where you are in your body kindness journey, this is an essential listen any time of year, but especially as we are waiting in some toxic New Year's resolution waters. Now, quick disclaimer, we will be briefly talking about disordered eating in today's episode, and my general reminder that the information in this episode is never a replacement for personalized healthcare. Also, I would love it if you would follow or subscribe to the podcast, and also give me a little five-star review and a comment,

• 3:21Abbey Sharp?

  because as a new podcast, it really, really helps me out. All right, let's get into it.

• 3:34Abbey Sharp?

  All right. Well, thank you so much for joining me, Lauren. I'm so excited to have you here.

• 3:38Speaker 00

  I'm thrilled to be here. I was really excited when your people reached out because I was like, oh, I know who she is. I was like, I love her Instagram. Like, it's great.

• 3:48Abbey Sharp?

  Oh, I love it. And I love Good Bodies. I send it to so many of my friends and family. So thank you so much for what you do.

• 3:55Speaker 00

  Oh, my God. Thanks for telling people. That means a lot. And you're welcome. Thanks for all you.

• 4:02Abbey Sharp?

  I love it. Okay. So, okay, let's get into it. Talk to me, like, take me back to the beginning. Talk to me about your, kind of, your history with dieting and your body growing up.

• 4:12Speaker 00

  Sure. So I've always been a fat babe, okay? Always been plus-size. I feel like my family was definitely a Weight Watchers family, you know? It was just kind of... A part of the culture. I, for reference, I'm just turned thirty six. So you know, I was really, I'm a millennial. I was, you know, the diet culture craze was like really heavy. And like the nineties and early two thousands. So my grandma was going to Weight Watchers. My mom was going to Weight Watchers. I was a child in Weight Watchers, which why is that legal?

• 4:46Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah.

• 4:47Speaker 00

  Oh, why are we letting twelve year olds weigh in?

• 4:51Abbey Sharp?

  Uh huh.

• 4:51Speaker 00

  And it is kind of like a nuanced thing for me to talk about because I am really blessed by having like a really supportive mom. And my grandmother was a great matriarch. Like I was raised and surrounded by a lot of love, but I think as a child, the way it was positioned to me was like, oh, we're doing this for our health. We're getting in shape. You know, it was less of a, you gotta be skinny to be hot. It was like, this is a, this is our community and what we do. And so I didn't really realize that it was toxic until much, much later because again, like a lot of the community that people in bigger bodies have is dieting, you know? So I was just always trying different diets. I remember as like a young teen, I was like

• 5:35Speaker 00

  obsessed with those infomercials that would come out and it'd be like, Body by Jake. Like I begged my mom for like a

• 5:41Abbey Sharp?

  The Shake

• 5:42Speaker 00

  The, oh, listen, I'm not that, I'm not that young. I was, I was begging my mom for like these like really old school like diet programs, like

• 5:50Abbey Sharp?

  Oh, yeah.

• 5:50Speaker 00

  We work with your specific body makeup and blood type, but we'll make you a program, program by Michael, or I don't know. But like, I was doing all of them. So, um, and then I think once I was in like high school, that's when it started to get more toxic, you know, like

• 6:08Abbey Sharp?

  Totally.

• 6:09Speaker 00

  I know you know, and your listeners know, like restriction is not great. But like when I was a kid and like went to Weight Watchers, it was like fun, you know, it was like. Like a family activity, but it wasn't until like high school when things did get a little bit more toxic and like I was getting a lot of messaging like you won't get a boyfriend. If you don't lose weight, like you will not have access to love if you are not in a smaller body. And I just really believe that. And that's kind of where my like desire to be smaller came from. Like it was never, it was never health. It was, I wanted to be loved. I wanted a boyfriend. I wanted attention, you know?

• 6:46Abbey Sharp?

  Wow. Yeah. I'm sure so many folks can relate to that story. And I'm so sorry that was, you know, the pervasive message growing up. That must've been like terrifying because as women, you know, this, we, we are socialized to, to believe that, you know, our purpose is we're gonna get married and fall in love. And it's this whole like prince and princess bullshit.

• 7:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:06Abbey Sharp?

  It, it does beg the question, like if fat people do have more challenges finding romantic partner or finding love, which I'm not saying that is, that, that's, that's true necessarily or not. But is it because of the, their actual body shape or size? Or is it because they've been fed these fat phobic narratives their whole lives about being unlovable and nobody's going to want you that they believe it themselves? And that creates kind of barriers to confidence in dating and socializing. Like, what do you think those early messages perhaps did for your own romantic life?

• 7:40Speaker 00

  I think it's a monster that kind of feeds into itself, you know, because you're right. It is a little bit of a self fulfilling prophecy. If you're getting all these messages that you are not lovable in a certain body, you believe that and then you project that and then you are more insecure and you maybe get into more, you know, yeah, codependent, borderline abusive relationships because you think that's like all you deserve. And then at the same time, it's like, we still do live in a very fat phobic culture, you know? So I do tell people, it's like, yeah, I'm very confident. I'm, I'm like very solid in who I am as a 36 year old woman. However, I am aware of the world in which I live and

• 8:24Speaker 00

  I am aware that I will be judged because I am judged.

• 8:28Abbey Sharp?

  Yep.

• 8:28Speaker 00

  You know? So it's kind of like. It reminds me of like confirmation bias, you know, like people tell you like, oh, nobody will love you if you're fat. And then it's like, oh, and then you're like getting rejected and you're like, oh, well, it must be true. And it's

• 8:40Abbey Sharp?

  Must be true.

• 8:41Speaker 00

  And let me, let me, right. And it's not, and it's not true. I have lots of friends in bigger bodies, in happy relationships, their partners are all shapes and sizes. I definitely, not to brag, I got men in my DMs. Okay?

• 8:55Abbey Sharp?

  I love that.

• 8:55Speaker 00

  It's not, it's not true. It's just not true.

• 8:58Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 8:59Speaker 00

  And I wish I could go back, but I can't. So.

• 9:02Abbey Sharp?

  But now you spread the message to so many other people and that's so important, you know? But I'm kind of curious, like, what happened that led you towards like body positivity and fat activism and adjacent movements?

• 9:14Speaker 00

  So I moved to New York when I was 24 to pursue standup comedy and I liked, I think, my whole story is like a bunch of accidents and I'm, and I'm so, so grateful. But when I moved to New York, I was, you know, I had no money. I was doing like a bunch of temp jobs and like running around. And I think at the time I was thinking that dieting was still something I quote unquote should do, but didn't have time to do. I think I naturally over time just stopped dieting due to being so busy. But then also a lot of anger came up with having dealt with dieting for so long. And I started doing what I'm pretty sure like, other people think is intuitive eating,

• 9:57Speaker 00

  where I was just like, fuck diets, I'm gonna eat whatever I want all the time, you know?

• 10:02Abbey Sharp?

  Yep.

• 10:02Speaker 00

  And so I had no frame of reference. It was like, either you diet, or you're a slob, you know? Like, I didn't know about intuitive eating, about like, life is gray, like the middle ground, because we're, we're friggin', we're brainwashed.

• 10:18Abbey Sharp?

  Yep.

• 10:18Speaker 00

  To think that like,

• 10:19Abbey Sharp?

  Good, bad.

• 10:20Speaker 00

  Yeah. So for years, for years, I was just like, eating like a little raccoon, like a little trash raccoon. And then it wasn't until 2018, where I like, lost a job, and I lost my health insurance. And I reached out to New York State of Health and I was like, hey, I need health insurance. I lost it. So my job was eliminated, no fault termination. And I didn't even ask for Medicaid. They just like, sent me Medicaid. And I was like, oh, hell yeah. I'm gonna like, I'm, I went to the dentist. I, I like, I did everything. I went to a dermatologist because it was free, you know? And I was like, yeah, I, I could try a nutritionist. Let me, because I was aware, I was like, I'm not in great health. Like, let me talk to a nutritionist.

• 11:02Speaker 00

  And then God is real because the person I called, like the one person, and you might know her. I feel like, like all of you lovely, like intuitive eating nutritionists, like know each other, dietitians.

• 11:13Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah.

• 11:14Speaker 00

  Rebecca Ditka, do you know her?

• 11:15Abbey Sharp?

  Oh, yeah, I know, I do, I know her name, yeah.

• 11:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, so she was like the one person in network at the time and I called her and I was like, I'm not doing low carb. I'm not doing, like, I was just so feisty and she was like, I'm not going to restrict anything. Like, come in, let's talk. And it just so happened that she was on like a professional journey of discovering intuitive eating. Like, she wasn't certified yet. She is now, like, her practice is awesome. Um, and they're all intuitive eating certified, but we kind of like discovered intuitive eating together. It was a really nice process. I read the book Intuitive Eating, the original one. I read the book Anti-Diet by Dr. Christy Harrison.

• 12:01Speaker 00

  And it was honestly, this is, this seems so basic, but it was reading these texts. Like, that is my advice to people who are like, how do I break out of it? Read these books, okay? Because it will break your brain in the best way. And it will also make you feel so validated, so angry, like, just so ready to take on a life where you are not wasting it. Trying to be smaller. Like, it really, it was like 2018 where I really broke through. And once I discovered intuitive eating and the validation behind diets don't work. That's kind of when I was like, oh, this is just what my body looks like.

• 12:39Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 12:40Speaker 00

  This body is not a problem. And that's kind of when I was like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna flaunt it. I'm, this is gonna help people. I'm gonna accept the body that I'm in. It's a beautiful body. And so, sorry, that was a really long answer, but that is my.

• 12:57Abbey Sharp?

  No, I loved it.

• 12:59Speaker 00

  That was my journey.

• 13:00Abbey Sharp?

  And you know what? I love it because I think so many people, including myself in a lot of ways, can like relate to that, that kind of progression that, that from that black and white, like we, we have two modes in diet culture. We're either on the diet or we are off the diet and going hog wild. And that's allowed ourselves to.

• 13:19Speaker 00

  Banter strict.

• 13:19Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah. And so it's interesting because obviously, you know, my origins story is, is very different. That I've never lived in a larger body, but I suffered from an eating disorder. And on my way from severe restriction to food freedom to where I am today, I also had this rebellion stage where I was kind of like, eat all the things, fuck it, going all in. And you know, it's a process. And so.

• 13:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:44Abbey Sharp?

  It took time for me to kind of trust that I could listen to my body and know that I would honor my body. And so I think that, you know, while eating disorder, well, intuitive eating is not the eat whatever the fuck you want diet. Like a lot of folks who will criticize it, suggest it is.

• 14:02Speaker 00

  Right.

• 14:02Abbey Sharp?

  It does start with that first stage of rejecting the diet mentality. So I think it makes complete sense that for a lot of us who were in such a, you know, a long-term problematic relationship with our bodies and food, that it takes that, that 360 moment to kind of, to kickstart the journey.

• 14:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:23Abbey Sharp?

  So I think a lot of people can probably identify with that, that progression. And it is a journey, right?

• 14:30Speaker 00

  It, it is. I always try to tell people like intuitive eating is something you learn over a lifetime.

• 14:35Abbey Sharp?

  For sure.

• 14:36Speaker 00

  You know, a lot of people, and it's again, it's because we're trained with diet culture and these like, this is gonna change your life and transform and result in two weeks, three weeks. Intuitive eating takes years. I started in 2018. It is now 2024 and I've only just now, um, basically become alcohol free, which I'm not advocating people do alcohol free. It's just like, it took my body that long to finally be like, oh, you don't like alcohol, you know? Like it's just, it is, it is like a slow, it is a slow burn. So when people are like, this doesn't work for me. I'm gonna eat all the cookies. I'm like, keep trying.

• 15:13Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah, it's a journey. It's like, you know, it's not gonna happen overnight.

• 15:18Speaker 00

  No.

• 15:18Abbey Sharp?

  And that's scary for a lot of people to hear who want kind of like, they've been dieting their whole life and now they're like, oh my God, I'm just gonna eat everything I ever see then. And that may be true for a lot of folks who are just getting started with intuitive eating.

• 15:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:30Abbey Sharp?

  Who have been heavily restricted.

• 15:31Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 15:32Abbey Sharp?

  There is going to likely be a period where you do kind of eat all the things that you've been restricting in the past.

• 15:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:39Abbey Sharp?

  Um, but if you see it through and you build that trust and you build that, that, that body attunement, those skills, um, then like you said, like it took you how many years to realize, okay, maybe alcohol does not feel good to my body.

• 15:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:52Abbey Sharp?

  It's an act of self-care to not, to not drink.

• 15:56Speaker 00

  Right.

• 15:57Abbey Sharp?

  So I think, you know, thank you for sharing that because I think it's, it's definitely very relatable.

• 16:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:14Abbey Sharp?

  But I want to go back to body positivity because I think, you know, there's a lot of these words out there and I think a lot of people have a sense of what they mean, but don't really know what they mean.

• 16:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:24Abbey Sharp?

  How do you see a concept like body positivity versus movements where fatness is kind of front and center, like fat positive, fat liberation, fat activism, et cetera?

• 16:35Speaker 00

  Yeah. So I definitely identify as a fat liberationist, fat activist. I'm fat positive. I'm in the fat space. Like that is true for me. I am also body positive. I feel like in the fat positive space and the fat liberationist space, um, there's a lot of talk about like body positivity doesn't help us, you know? I'm not body positive because body pos, learning to love my body isn't going to give me, you know, better care at a doctor, which is true, whi, which is why fat activism is so important and is like my number one tent pole, you know? But within that tent pole, I love my body. I practice it like loving what she can do.

• 17:16Speaker 00

  Yes, what she looks like. Like, I really don't, I mean, personally, I don't find it helpful to toss out body positivity. I feel like that's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Like, it's one of those two things are true things where it's like, yeah, we need fat activism, but like body positivity also great. Like.

• 17:35Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah.

• 17:36Speaker 00

  It's, there's a phrase, I forget who said it first, this is embarrassing, but like, there's a phrase in like, the fat activism space where it's like, fat vanity is a survival tool that fat people teach each other. You know, and that, and fat vanity, that's just like, being cute and taking pictures.

• 17:54Abbey Sharp?

  Right.

• 17:54Speaker 00

  Well, accepting ourselves and, and that helps us be mentally healthy, which is a part of overall health. So anyways, I'm getting, I'm getting really soapboxy here, but I, I'm not ready to release body positivity. I think it's very important, so.

• 18:10Abbey Sharp?

  No, I love that perspective and I think it totally makes sense in this, in the way that, you know, perhaps body positivity may be vital for individuals' kind of own sense of self.

• 18:19Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 18:20Abbey Sharp?

  Whereas, you know, fat activism, um, fat liberation may kind of help make the world more hospitable for larger bodies.

• 18:28Speaker 00

  Yes. Like the social justice.

• 18:31Abbey Sharp?

  Hundred percent. Yeah. Um, but okay. So I want to get your take on this because, um, again, I have no lived experience in a larger body. Um, but it irks me when I see, you know, very straight sized, thin fo- folks on social media take pictures of themselves, um, being like, see, I have rolls too. And if I just, you know, turn a certain way, hashtag body positivity.

• 18:56Speaker 00

  Oh my god.

• 18:58Abbey Sharp?

  How does content like that feel to you? Like, or even just straight sized folks using the term body positivity in contexts like that?

• 19:07Speaker 00

  Okay. Well, let me say body positivity is for everybody. It was started by hot fatties. Okay. Let's, let's not forget our origin stories, but yes, Abbey, like, that does drive me crazy. And I hope it's okay to say that, but like, it really, because again, I'm, a lot of our listeners are straight sized and I love them. And this is for, this is for all of us, right? But it's just, I don't know. It's like, is it co-opting fatness? Like, if there's just something that does not pass the smell test.

• 19:35Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah.

• 19:35Speaker 00

  When a straight sized person is like, this is normal, this is normal, this is normal. And they're like, sitting and scrunching and then they, and then they straighten up and then guess what?

• 19:46Abbey Sharp?

  They're gone.

• 19:46Speaker 00

  They're, they're skinny again.

• 19:48Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:48Speaker 00

  You know, and it's like, I can't, I can't sit up and my rolls are gone. I have rolls all the time. So it is, it is sort of like. I don't know. It's like, it feels, I know they're not trying to be offensive, but it does feel like a little insensitive because, and it also feels a little bit like self glorifying in a way when they, they show their bodies in these ways that do look societally acceptable. And it's almost like they do want to see what their body looks like that. And then they scrunch it and they're like, but it also does this. And I'm like, okay, congratulations. Like, right. You can also not look skinny.

• 20:28Abbey Sharp?

  Right. I, I do feel like it insinuates that, you know, roles are okay as long as you're thin.

• 20:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:36Abbey Sharp?

  Like fatness is okay up until a very specific point where if you stand up straight, the fatness disappears kind of thing. Um, I really don't think it helps anyone, including, you know, including other straight sized folks who are seeing content like that.

• 20:51Speaker 00

  Right.

• 20:51Abbey Sharp?

  And, you know, they're feeling insecure. It like, it really, it's just, it's toxic content in general to be comparing our bodies to one another.

• 21:00Speaker 00

  It's so validating to hear you say that because I agree.

• 21:04Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah. And, okay, so I want to kind of like elaborate on some of these ideas for a second because I think, you know, when you've lived your life within privilege, you maybe don't realize how fat activism applies to you, or like how anti-fat bias can affect you. Um, but I would say like, chances are for anybody listening to this podcast, like you've probably struggled with your relationship with your body and food in some way, even if you've never been fat. Um, you know, you've likely been fighting through restriction and diets, over exercising rules, like all of the, the dogma that we, that, you know, we come across on social media. And the reason for that is fat phobia and people don't realize.

• 21:45Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 21:46Abbey Sharp?

  Right?

• 21:46Speaker 00

  Abbey, thank you. I get so tired of people talking about like, oh, the pressure to be thin. Like, it is not the pressure to be thin. It is the pressure to not be fat. Like, let's, we need to keep this in the conversation that it is anti-fat bias, it's fat phobic. Like, this is, this is the cornerstone of diet culture, people. Like,

• 22:05Abbey Sharp?

  Yes. Yes. And people need to. To understand that because you know, like fat phobia hurts us all. It kept

• 22:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:12Abbey Sharp?

  Me deeply entrenched in eating disorder for years.

• 22:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:15Abbey Sharp?

  And I mean, like, this is kind of why, you know, we often say, like, fat is a feminist issue because, you know, fat phobia is designed to negatively affect all of us.

• 22:24Speaker 00

  Right.

• 22:25Abbey Sharp?

  Even if, you know, you know, kind of like what we were saying, like, it may be immediately dangerous to to fat people for whom the world is not built for.

• 22:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:33Abbey Sharp?

  Clothes, rides, airplanes, healthcare bias.

• 22:36Speaker 00

  Right.

• 22:37Abbey Sharp?

  Discrimination, etc.

• 22:38Speaker 00

  Right.

• 22:39Abbey Sharp?

  But at the end of the day, it does none of us any favors.

• 22:42Speaker 00

  Exactly. Um, I'm so, I'm so glad that, because you're like a really important voice in this space too. And I really appreciate that you understand that component and that you're shouting it from the rooftop. So as a fat, thank you so much.

• 22:57Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah. Okay. And like, speaking of, of harm, um, because, you know, this is harmful for, you know, again, diet culture affects us all. I want to talk about how you see the age of Ozempic affecting the body positivity movement.

• 23:12Speaker 00

  Sure. Yeah, we've been asked about this a lot. I feel like, well, let me say, you know, my fun little disclaimer, which is I'm very pro body autonomy. I'm never going to shame anyone for making a decision for their own body, no matter what that is, including taking a GLP-1 for weight loss. Okay? So that's obviously true. Sometimes people don't realize that's true, but that is true. At the same time, a lot of people in bigger bodies are dealing with an increasing pressure to take GLP-1s. Because before, you know, we could kind of say, like, well, diets don't work, you know? So I'm going to choose to accept my body. That's like, kind of a simple, uh, equation.

• 23:57Speaker 00

  You know, diets don't work. I'm in a bigger body. I accept myself. Deal with it, you know? Now, it's like we're, there's this idea that GLP-1s and Ozempic and everything is like,

• 24:09Speaker 00

  A proven way to keep the weight off, you know? And so the pressure to, it's almost like it's always been kind of a, it shouldn't be a political statement, but it's always kind of been a political statement to be in a bigger body and not trying to lose weight. Now it seems like it's an even bigger statement because now there is this thing that, you know, actually keeps the weight off, but it's like, it's very expensive. It is, it changes your, you know, your body, how your hunger cues can like communicate with yourself. You have to stay on it forever. Okay. Like it is not an easy, quick fix. I mean, I've talked with people and they're like, this completely changed my life. Like this is, this is what I've been waiting for.

• 24:51Speaker 00

  But I feel like at the same time, it is catnip for people with eating disorders. Okay. It completely, and it is not being monitored very well. You know, like if you are even in a slightly bigger body and you're at the doctor's office, they're going to say, take this. Okay. Like we now have to arm ourselves with like all this like fat activism and body positivity, like knowledge about how these drugs work to decide if we're going to take them or not. Like if people aren't doing that, which most people aren't, they're just going to start taking these and it just, it does, it does worry me because it's a lifelong choice and it is becoming really, the pressure to take it has gotten really, really strong for, for fat people.

• 25:36Speaker 00

  So it is like a little concerning for me.

• 25:40Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah, no, I, I can, I can totally understand that. And you know, like you, I'm all about body autonomy and you know, so again, I've got friends who are on Ozempic who feel it's changed their lives and I'm so grateful that we have options for, for them and for others who feel the same. So again, I love that we have choice, options, but again, so important to weigh out the risks and benefits for the individual. But on a social level, I, I often do worry that framing these drugs as like a cure for obesity just reinforces this dichotomous idea of thin equals healthy and fat equals unhealthy. When I've Actually, these things are not mutually exclusive and they also exist on a spectrum.

• 26:22Speaker 00

  Right.

• 26:23Abbey Sharp?

  Right? And not to mention, like, healthy ones are ironically not without risk to your health. So you might lose weight.

• 26:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:30Abbey Sharp?

  But we have evidence that, you know, without really strong counseling, like you said, a lot of that weight is going to come from metabolic muscle mass. And it's very hard to meet your basic nutrient needs, like from protein, omega threes, fiber, micronutrients.

• 26:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:44Abbey Sharp?

  When you're severely under eating. So I'm never ever going to discount the potential benefits of these drugs. I'm, I'm always very excited about innovations in, in science. But I do think it's a great example of how a smaller body doesn't necessarily mean instant health, right? Cause you may be trading one.

• 27:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:03Abbey Sharp?

  For another, if there was even a health risk there to begin with, like you said, like if you're even a slightly larger body, then you're going, the doctor's going to be like, well, just take this. So.

• 27:12Speaker 00

  Right.

• 27:13Abbey Sharp?

  We have to be cautious about that. Not to mention, I feel like fat people can't win because they're chastised when they don't actively diet to lose weight. But then they are in trouble or they're criticized for taking the easy way out when they take.

• 27:29Speaker 00

  I know.

• 27:30Abbey Sharp?

  Right? So.

• 27:31Speaker 00

  It's, it's truly, and because of that, like, if anybody's, if anybody's listening to this and like, oh God, there's no, it's like, no, the way out is not giving a fuck. Okay? The way out is unsubscribing. Okay? Because you cannot win by society's standards. Okay? You are set up anti-fat bias, excuse me, anti-fat bias runs so, so deep. Like you cannot win that game. You have to exit the game. Okay? Like, and you're right, like being, I call it, gosh, I'm being a little bit of a hater today, but I'd call it the, the, I call it the health dance. Where they're like, it's for my health. And I'm like, you don't want to be fat. Like I, like I know a lot of people do have health concerns.

• 28:15Speaker 00

  But I feel like it's a health dance.

• 28:18Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah. I think, you know, at the end of the day, a lot of these assumptions just kind of reinforce all these fat phobic tropes about fat people being lazy and motivated. So they either don't want to diet or they want to take, you know, drugs to make it easy to, to kind of lose weight. And it doesn't obviously help anybody. So, yeah.

• 28:51Abbey Sharp?

  But speaking of fat phobic tropes, I wanted to kind of ask about this like longstanding assumption that body positivity, or even just like actively not wanting to lose weight, or even like posting a photo of yourself in a bikini or whatever is quote unquote glorifying obesity. What are your thoughts on that?

• 29:11Speaker 00

  My thoughts are that's ridiculous. Like I don't even, like, nobody, nobody posts like a picture being like five foot two and they're like, you're glorifying shortness. It's like, I'm just not trying to have surgery to extend my legs, you know, like, also, like, let's state the obvious here, uh, the O word, obesity has quote unquote obesity has been used to stigmatize people in bigger bodies. So even putting that in the phrase is problematic, you know, like that's, it's used to take fat people down a peg, you know, nobody wants, because it breaks people's brains. And this is, okay, this, you're actually going to be surprised at this metaphor. This is why I think I had trouble when I was performing

• 29:54Speaker 00

  on cruise ships with like boomers in middle America, because they had been so steeped in diet culture for so long. It was like hard for them to see like a fat, happy, single, childless woman, just like living her best life. It broke their brains. They hated it. They could not understand me, you know, and I think it's rather than to reflect on, oh, crap, have I like wasted a lot of my time and energy trying to be in a smaller body when this other example, hello, me, exists where you're in a bigger body and happy and fulfilled. It's like, that's a really hard conversation to have with yourself. And I get it. Like, that is, that is a, that is, there is some mourning to be had. There is

• 30:35Speaker 00

  some grief to be had. So it's like, either you like are really mentally strong and you go through that grief of what you gave to diet culture, or you say, oh, well, they're just glorifying an unhealthy lifestyle and that's bad. And it's just like, no, this is what acceptance looks like. This is not. Like if I think of the term glorifying quote unquote obesity, I think of like, I don't know, like an ex person in like an extremely bigger body, like eating a tub of ice cream. It's like, nobody, but that's not what's happening. Like eating a tub of ice cream and saying, you should eat a tub of ice cream too. It's like, no, nobody is saying, like when I'm posting a bikini pic, I'm not saying you too

• 31:17Speaker 00

  can have this sexy curvy body if you overeat. Like, that's ridiculous. It's stupid. I hide those comments. If you see them, delete them. They are not, they are lies. So.

• 31:29Abbey Sharp?

  They are lies.

• 31:30Speaker 00

  That is my thoughts.

• 31:31Abbey Sharp?

  I a hundred percent agree. I always, when I get, got, hear comments like that, I just, I'm like, do, do you understand the, the, like, the world we live in right now? Like, I get a lot of pushback, for example, from people telling me that I disproportionately criticize what I in a day videos that, you know, start with a thin woman doing a body check. And then people are like, well, why do you only criticize the skinny girls doing body checks? Like, why don't you call out the fat girls what in a days or if they do a body check? And my answer to that is, one, well, largely because there's a far more, you know, problematic diet videos out there posted by thin women than larger bodied women.

• 32:15Abbey Sharp?

  And B, it, the power of influence is never going to be the same. Because like you said, like if a thin woman posts her diet video leaning into her ankles, doing a body check, maybe not even showing her face, it's just like, just like boobs down usually.

• 32:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 32:30Abbey Sharp?

  And then post this kind of restrictive, disordered what in a day, there is this clear message, especially young people, that, oh, if you eat like this, you can look like this.

• 32:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, because all bodies are the same.

• 32:42Abbey Sharp?

  Right, like, exactly, like, but in, because we live in diet culture, young people are going to try to copy that diet, even if it is super problematic. Because again, we're culture obsessed with the pursuit of thinness.

• 32:55Speaker 00

  Right.

• 32:56Abbey Sharp?

  But when, you know,

• 32:59Abbey Sharp?

  Here in diet culture, fatness is not sought after at any real cost, the same way that thinness is. So, and this is not like skinny shame.

• 33:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's like a fallacy.

• 33:09Abbey Sharp?

  Right, it's a full fallacy that, that fatphobic people play into to make it seem like, oh, you know, like this is a conspiracy against thin people. No, it's that, you know, problematic diet tips are still problematic.

• 33:24Speaker 00

  Sorry, conspiracy against thin people is really funny.

• 33:28Abbey Sharp?

  Right, but like, I feel like that's what the people are trying to make it seem like is happening. But like, no, like, like the problematic diet tips are still problematic, no matter what the person's size is who's sharing them.

• 33:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:41Abbey Sharp?

  I've called out things that larger body folks have said that is complete misinformation or problematic content, especially like in the book banks.

• 33:48Speaker 00

  Right.

• 33:48Abbey Sharp?

  But the risk to a young, vulnerable viewer is unequivocally disproportionate because people aren't saying, "Oh, I want to look like that fat person, so I'm going to do muck things too."

• 34:03Speaker 00

  Right. No, literally, nobody is doing that, which is again, it's like, nobody's doing that, yet how many people are using the phrase glorifying obesity? It's just completely disproportionate, does not exist. You're just trying to stigmatize a group of people.

• 34:19Abbey Sharp?

  Okay, so I wanted to close off, um, you know, what would you want or need from straight-sized folks to kind of help support you in these movements without kind of co-opting it as our own?

• 34:34Speaker 00

  Great question. I have some easy things and then I have like a expert level thing, okay? So, the, the basic, the most basic thing you can do is not use fatphobic language, okay? Like, don't say, "I feel fat." Don't say, "Do I look fat in this? Does this..." And I have friends who are very aware of, of my message and who I am, and they'll still let it slip and be like, "Does this make me look fat?" I'm like, "Girl, like, just don't say that. You're implying that fat is gross and something that you never want to be, and that stigmatizes your friends."

• 35:15Speaker 00

  You know, like anti-fat bias, it's not just like, oh, you don't want to be fat, but it's like, it's also, people forget, like, we are, we are a demographic, fat people are a group of people. And the more that you engage in anti-fat bias, the more you're like, putting down like, an entire demographic of people. So, the, the most simple thing you can do is just, don't use that language. I know it's tempting, we're raised in it, but just, that's baseline, okay? Don't use fat, public language. Um, the second thing you can do, which is pretty simple, is when you go to a restaurant or event or anything like that, this is all you say. Straight-sized people, write this down, do you have a preference on where to sit? Okay? Do you have a preference on where to sit?

• 36:00Speaker 00

  Because even the most fat activist of your friends, isn't gonna want to say, "Oh, I might not fit in that booth." Okay? It's humiliating to have to talk about our body size and have to, like, reiterate that the world isn't built for us. It's not fun, okay? And on the flip side, even if you have a fat friend, who is on a diet or whatever, they're still gonna want to be comfortable when they sit down. So just say, "Do you have a preference where we sit?" And if they say a table, don't say, "Aw, man, why a table?" Like, it's because the booth is too tight, okay? So, just, that's a very kind thing you can say, and you're not even bringing up like, "Hey, due to your body size, where do you want to sit?" You're just saying, "Do you have a preference on where to sit?"

• 36:45Speaker 00

  And they will guide you, they, they know. Um, and then, the expert level thing you can do,

• 36:54Speaker 00

  people are gonna hate this, you don't have to do it, I get it. We have the places that we like to shop. Shopping is personal, shopping is emotional, I love fashion. Oh, I forgot to say, fashion is a big part of how I found body positivity, by the way. Um, because, because I'm a girly girl and I just, I love to dress up. And it's hard to do that if you're just covering your body in like, droopy black clothes.

• 37:17Speaker 00

  Anyways, um, when you're shopping, try to, see, I am scared to even ask for it. Like, we don't want to ask for things. Like, I am

• 37:28Abbey Sharp?

  No, I'm for it. We, we want to know.

• 37:30Speaker 00

  I am like, I wanna, we're so scared to ask for it. We would love it if you would try to mostly shop at places that have inclusive sizing because

• 37:42Abbey Sharp?

  I love

• 37:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, the, the fashion industry has really left fat people in the dust lately with the age of Ozempic. Like, it is hardcore and obvious and it is plummeting. Like, it is, the plus-size fashion space is in a really bad spot right now. And the brands that are still like the bastions of having like lots of sizes, like Universal Standard, places like that, like shop there. Like, if that, you can cast your vote against fat phobia with your dollars. And it's fun. You're going shopping.

• 38:12Abbey Sharp?

  Yeah, I love that.

• 38:13Speaker 00

  You know, so those are my, those are my tips.

• 38:16Abbey Sharp?

  Amazing. I think that's just so helpful for so many people that, you know, are just kind of getting started in understanding fat phobia, understanding the body positivity and fat activism movements. And I really appreciate you coming on to chat with me. Also, I'm obsessed with good bodies. Like, it's

• 38:35Speaker 00

  Thank you, yes.

• 38:36Abbey Sharp?

  Such a great podcast, so I highly recommend it.

• 38:38Speaker 00

  Thank you so much.

• 38:40Abbey Sharp?

  Well, thank you again, Lauren. So nice talking to you.

• 38:50Abbey Sharp?

  That was such a thought-provoking conversation, especially for someone like myself who has ultimately lived her whole life with thin privilege. For those of you who have struggled with your body image and weight your whole life, I am sure you heard yourself in Lauren's experiences. And for those of us with thin privilege, Lauren offered some really incredible and useful action items for our own learning and work. And I want to acknowledge that these two seemingly different experiences are actually not mutually exclusive. And that you can have thin privilege and also struggle with your body, be affected by discrimination,

• 39:29Abbey Sharp?

  and ultimately be damned by diet culture and fat phobia. As we've discussed, that is why we are all here. But for those of us in straight-sized bodies, I do think it's important to understand and appreciate how our experiences differ. And that starts with understanding thin privilege. I don't know why thin privilege is so controversial, but it feels like anytime I say the words "I have thin privilege" in a video, I will inevitably get a ton of pushback from people insisting that it's not a real thing. Thin privilege exists for straight-sized folks, even if you hate your body. And I really wanted to give you just five of many examples of how that privilege for thin folks,

• 40:15Abbey Sharp?

  or conversely, disadvantage for larger-bodied folks, plays out in real life. Number one, healthcare discrimination. If you're able to go to the doctors for literally anything, so like a rash, a persistent cough, anxiety, and the first recommendation isn't automatically weight loss, you probably have thin privilege. It's well documented that at least 60% of larger-bodied women have experienced fat phobia from their healthcare provider. One study found that doctors who specialize in clinical management of obesity displayed strong weight bias and used words like lazy, stupid, and worthless to describe their fat patients.

• 41:00Abbey Sharp?

  And this does cause harm. Larger-bodied individuals often experience shorter appointment times, less comprehensive exams, fewer referrals for specialists at imaging, and longer wait times for surgeries and other procedures. One study, for example, found that larger-bodied women are less likely to be screened for cancer and are more likely to die from these cancers when compared to normal-weight women with cancer. Now, number two, the fat fashion tax. If you're able to walk into virtually any store and find your size in clothing, you likely have thin privilege. As Lauren described, not only do larger-bodied folks have fewer clothing brand options,

• 41:45Abbey Sharp?

  but the options that they do have- Often cost more money. So for example, a plus-size t-shirt at Target could be nearly 20% more expensive than the same straight-size shirt. And while a lot of companies may argue that it takes more fabric to make a 2X garment than an extra-small, it does seem kind of strange to be basing prices off of the extra-small when almost 70% of American women are over a size 14. So extra-small is actually the minority here. Number three is work discrimination. If you haven't been overlooked for a promotion or job you're qualified for because of your weight, you probably have been privileged.

• 42:29Abbey Sharp?

  One study found that HR professionals were more likely to disqualified larger-bodied people from being hired and less likely to nominate them for supervisory positions. Another study found that larger-bodied job applicants were more likely to be viewed as being less conscientious, less agreeable, less emotionally stable, and less extroverted than their normal-weight counterparts. And this discrimination disproportionately affects women, where larger-bodied men are less likely to be judged or disadvantaged compared to the same-size women, where beauty standards play a bigger role. For each one unit increase in a woman's BMI, they receive 1.83% lower hourly wages. So yeah, that's wild.

• 43:14Abbey Sharp?

  Number four, accessibility in the world. If you're able to fly on any airline, or eat in any restaurant seat, or fit in any car, or ride any roller coaster, you probably have been privileged. In a lot of cases, like on special rides, or in small restaurants, or in many vehicles, there may just not be an option for a larger-bodied person to participate. In other cases like flying internationally, we again see the fat tax where larger bodied folks are required to pay for two seats. Now, some countries, including my own Canada, have adopted a one person, one fare policy, which prevents domestic airlines from charging passengers that require an extra seat, an additional fare.

• 43:59Abbey Sharp?

  But there's still a really long way to go to make the world more accessible to folks in larger bodies. And number five, limited media representation. If you see bodies like yours in media in starring roles like TV, movies, ads, and fashion, you probably have thin privilege. In contrast, fat characters in media are almost always one dimensional. They either serve as the funny goofy dumb friend, which simply reinforces fat phobic stereotypes, or they're reduced down to a weight loss story arc and are always trying to prove they're worthy of love or friendship despite their weight. Consider like fat Amy in Pitch Perfect as the former and Bridget Jones as the latter,

• 44:43Abbey Sharp?

  who despite fatness being central to her whole identity, was literally a size 10. But I digress. Finally, let's talk about public judgment. If you can eat or talk about or just interact with food, literally any food, without being watched, lectured, or judged, you probably have thin privilege. In my experience as a thin person, I can eat pizza or dessert and either people will say nothing at all, or might even make a comment that I'm like such a cool girl for not ordering a boring salad. In contrast, larger body folks' food choices are constantly surveilled and critiqued. They will get comments or lectures in the grocery store, at restaurants, at family

• 45:28Abbey Sharp?

  events, at work, and perhaps most viciously, on the internet. It is really, truly fucked up. Recognizing thin privilege doesn't mean ignoring or not validating your own struggles with your body and food, but it is crucial in helping us challenge the fat phobia and diet culture that ultimately harms us all.

• 45:51Abbey Sharp?

  And that is all that I have for you guys today. Another huge thank you to Lauren Hope Krass for helping me fight back against diet culture. You've got to check out her podcast, Good Body, so I'm going to be linking to it in the show notes below. And don't forget, please leave me a review. It really does help me out as a new podcast to get the word out. Signing off with Science and SaaS, I'm Abbey Sharp. Thank you for listening.