Pod Insights BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast The Financial Freedom Formula Has Changed (2025 Update) About this episode Can you still achieve financial freedom with real estate investing? Around a decade ago, it was common knowledge that with a few rental properties, you could easily replace your income, retire early, and be fast-tracked to financial independence within just three to five years of investing. Is that possible anymore? How long will financial independence actually take if you start investing in real estate in 2025? And if you feel like you’re almost there, should you quit your job and dive head first into real estate? We’ve got two financially free investors on the show, each taking different paths to get there. Dave kept his full-time W2 to pay for his more passive real estate investments, while Henry quit his job to buy rentals and flip houses full-time. Would they both be okay if they lost their “active” income today? Yes! But they STILL choose to work to build the dream life that goes far beyond basic financial freedom. Today, they’re sharing how the financial freedom formula has changed, what you need to do to get on the path to financial independence/early retirement in 2025, and whether you should stay at your W2 while you build your rental portfolio or quit your job to pursue real estate full-time. The good news: financial freedom through real estate is still a significantly quicker route to retirement, but which path will you choose to get there? In This Episode We Cover: What “financial independence” really means and how long it will take for you to get there The cash flow myth that most new real estate investors believe (this could hurt you later!) Full-time real estate investing vs. keeping a nine-to-five and why you NEED “active” income to scale fast What to know about full-time real estate investing BEFORE you quit your job And So Much More! Links from the Show Join BiggerPockets for FREE Let Us Know What You Thought of the Show! Ask Your Question on the BiggerPockets Forums BiggerPockets YouTube Grab Dave’s New Book, “Start with Strategy” Find an Investor-Friendly Agent in Your Area How to Retire Early with Fewer Rental Properties Than You Think w/Chad Carson Connect with Henry Connect with Dave Check out more resources from this show on BiggerPockets.com and https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/real-estate-1069 Interested in learning more about today’s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email [email protected] . Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Dave Meyer? You can achieve financial freedom through real estate. You just need to be realistic with your expectations of what financial freedom even means to you and about how you're going to get there.
0:16 Dave Meyer? I'm Dave Meyer from BiggerPockets and I'm here with my friend, Henry Washington. We are both real estate investors who are on that financial freedom path right now. But as it turns out, we've taken sort of different approaches to achieve financial independence. Henry quit his corporate job to buy rentals and flip houses full time. I haven't done that and I probably never will. Today, we're having a real, honest conversation about what financial freedom even means, the pros and cons of different approaches to achieving it, and which could be right for each of you. So, Henry, I have what I think is sort of a hot take about financial independence and retire early that I want to share with you. But first, let me just ask you, what
1:00 Dave Meyer? do you consider financial independence? What does that actually even mean to you?
1:04 Henry Washington? Well, when I first got started, I thought I was gonna buy some properties and they would pay me every month and then I would not have to work.
1:11 Dave Meyer? Didn't work out that way.
1:12 Henry Washington? It didn't quite work out that way. But financial independence, what it means to me now and what I'm working towards is to not have to have active income. In other words, like if I don't want to work anymore, then I don't have to, but my income needs are met through, air quotes, some sort of passive income. And real estate is not truly passive, but the idea is that I could work less than 10 hours a week if I needed to and survive. That's what financial freedom really means to me now that I've started doing this business for a little bit.
1:50 Dave Meyer? Yeah, so it's not like fully retiring and actually just not working at all based on owning some rental properties.
1:58 Henry Washington? I think people have gotten a lot of these buzzwordy real estate goals intertwined because financial freedom is one thing. And then making enough income through real estate to quit your W2 is something completely different than financial freedom. And sometimes I think people kind of take those two. Goals and say or use them interchangeably like I I vividly remember somebody telling me, hey, I just hit financial freedom. I left my day job, but that doesn't mean you hit financial freedom. It just means you made enough active income in whatever else you're doing in real estate that replaced your W two income.
2:36 Dave Meyer? Right.
2:36 Henry Washington? You're still working. You're just now working in real estate, which is amazing.
2:42 Dave Meyer? That's a great point because so financial independence, financial freedom interchangeable terms in my mind, but retiring is is kind of a different thing like you were saying, but I'm curious because you could say that you quit your job, right? You you quit your corporate job. What was it? Five, six years ago now?
3:00 Henry Washington? That's right. 2020.
3:01 Dave Meyer? Yeah. So a couple of years ago, but would you say you're retired?
3:05 Henry Washington? No, no, no, I am not retired. I have to do something to make active income to survive.
3:12 Dave Meyer? But I think that's kind of the hot take, but it sounds like you sort of agree is like, I guess I just feel like these things have become conflated to the point where it's really detrimental. And people start looking at real estate and say, you know, there's not enough cash for these days for me to retire from my job in three to five years.
3:31 Henry Washington? There wasn't five years ago either.
3:32 Dave Meyer? Yeah. Unless you're starting with like five million bucks, I could just like buy rental properties all cash. It's you've always needed that active income and then you can choose whether you want that active income to come through real estate like Henry has, or you can choose for that active income to be through a 1099 or a W two job like I've done. And that's sort of the reality of the situation. And you know what? It's still great. You can still use real estate investing to become more financially independent and probably move your retirement date up by like 30 years. But the idea that you can retire and do nothing in five years is not very realistic.
4:17 Henry Washington? No, that's absolutely not realistic.
4:20 Dave Meyer? Okay, good. I'm glad you agree.
4:21 Henry Washington? Could someone do it? I'm sure there's a way someone could pull it off.
4:25 Dave Meyer? Sure.
4:25 Henry Washington? But that's like the teeny minority of people. Like, the most of us are going to have to generate some sort of active income in order to supplement our lifestyle. And I think we just have to be more clear about what it means, because I think you absolutely can invest in real estate and in the course of a five-year period, pick up some rental properties and then figure out how to make enough active income within the real estate niche to leave your W2.
4:55 Dave Meyer? Sure.
4:55 Henry Washington? And that, I believe, is absolutely possible. But that doesn't make you financially free. It makes you financially dependent on another income stream that you like more. And then you can leverage a lifestyle that simulates more freedom. Like you said, I am not, air quotes, fully retired from any active income. If I don't flip houses or help out on BiggerPockets or do some of these other things that I do to make active income, then my family would be in a tough position. I, we cannot and do not want to live off of our cash flow from our rental properties. Not the lifestyle that we enjoy. And so I have to have the active income.
5:38 Henry Washington? But because I've built this muscle and learned this skill set within the real estate industry, I now have a tool or multiple tools that I know I can use to go generate cash. And I can do that on my own time and on my own schedule. And because I can do that, I can simulate freedom. You know, if I wanted to go to Europe next week, I mean, I could probably figure out a way to make that work, Dave. Like, I've done enough deals where, sure, I could go buy a ticket and my family and I could go and we could be gone for a week or two and my properties would continue to get renovated and worked on and get listed on the market and I could enjoy my life and I could come back.
6:23 Henry Washington? Could I do that forever? No, I couldn't.
6:26 Dave Meyer? Yeah.
6:26 Henry Washington? Right? But the lifestyle and the skill set that I have obtained in real estate allows me to have this kind of semblance of freedom within the active income stream that I have in the real estate industry. I could not do that with a W2. So I get to experience what seems to be a whole lot more freedom than I had before. But yeah, you have to have some level of active income.
6:49 Dave Meyer? I think what you said is just so important and you're saying like it's simulating freedom, but it is real freedom. I think that the, the problem is that we treat financial independence as binary. It's like either you're financially free or you're not. When reality, like it is a path and the goal, at least for me, has always been to just become more financially independent, right? Every deal you do, every financial decision you make will hopefully put you in a better financial position. So you have more flexibility. For some people like Henry, like that flexibility might be going to, you know, going to Europe and just not working for
7:28 Dave Meyer? a couple of weeks. For me, I rest easy knowing that if BiggerPockets decided to fire me tomorrow, you know, I could not work for a couple of years and be very comfortable. And to me, wouldn't consider myself fully financially independent because if I left my job today, I would need to figure out active income, just like you, Henry. But I am more financially independent than I was 15 years ago before I started investing. And I am more financially independent this year than I was last year and the year before that and the year before that. And I feel like that really needs to be the goal. It's just to like keep moving in that direction because honestly, your definition of what financial independence
8:09 Dave Meyer? is going to change. Like the amount of money I thought that I would have needed to feel comfortable when I started 15 years ago, I passed that number a while ago.
8:18 Henry Washington? Yes, yes, yes.
8:20 Dave Meyer? And my, uh, my expectations, I try not to have lifestyle creep, but like, when you get older and you just have a more sophisticated life, like your expenses just go up. And so like, that's why I feel like setting this goal and saying like, I am financially independent or not, it's just not realistic. The goal is just to keep making progress.
8:38 Henry Washington? Yeah, that's absolutely true. You know, I, I was one of those people when I got started that I thought I would buy enough rental properties to produce enough cash flow in current days. That I would be able to take the cash flow from the rental properties. And then when that number of cash flow hit the number of money I made per month in my day job, that I could leave my day job and live off of my cash flow. But as I started to buy properties, I started to realize that that wasn't necessarily going to be a thing. I was absolutely buying properties that cash flow. But your business and your properties, they don't function linearly.
9:20 Henry Washington? Like, it's not like you buy it and then it cash flows and nothing ever happens or goes wrong. It just makes you just print that money every month and it's perfect and the world is great. But that's not the case. Like, the more properties you buy, things break at different times, things break all at the same time. People move in, people move out. Like, there's this constant flow of money that it's hard for you to be able to say, okay, well, I bought 10 properties and each property cash flows $500 a month. And so now I have $5,000 every month that I just will take out of this account and spend on my bills. And it's like, the money is flowing too fluidly for that to be a reality. And so I realized that like, if I truly want these properties to pay me cash flow
10:05 Henry Washington? that I could live off of passively, then it's gonna happen far into the future when these assets are paid off. And so I had to pivot my strategy to think, okay, well, how can I use real estate to still buy rentals, but also make cash now so that I can A, continue to grow my portfolio, but also stabilize my portfolio and then start to aggressively pay off those properties so I can hit that goal sooner? That wasn't what I thought starting out.
10:29 Dave Meyer? Totally, yeah. And I want to ask you about how you pivoted your business. But I'm just curious first, was that disappointing to you?
10:41 Henry Washington? You know, that's a, that's an interesting question. I don't remember feeling disappointed about it. Just because I was actively in the business at that point and knew, I knew I had the foundational skill, which is I know how to go buy a good deal. All I had to change was the way I was monetizing that deal, which was, you know, flipping it and getting, you know, more cash upfront versus holding on to it and taking the couple hundred dollars here or there. So, no, it wasn't disappointing because I just love the business of real estate.
11:09 Dave Meyer? All right, we gotta take a break. But on the other side, more of my conversation with Henry Washington about what financial freedom means to us. A lot of insurance companies compete on one thing, speed. But if you're protecting an investment property worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, should speed really be the priority? Enreg believes strong coverage starts with understanding the property, the risks, and the realities of ownership. That's why they don't rush the process. Their policies are designed for real-world claims, not just quick quotes. If you want insurance built to protect your investment when it matters most, visit nreg.com/bpllc and learn more today.
11:51 Dave Meyer? Are you looking for a simpler way to find your next investment property? Lennar Investor Marketplace is a free platform built for real estate investors. Create an account and get access to investor-ready new construction homes, plus real-time data on projected rents, returns, and neighborhood insights. Everything is one place, so there is no need to piece together information from multiple sites. There's also support for financing and property management to help make the process easier from start to finish. Create a free account at biggerpockets.com/lenar and start analyzing deals with more clarity today. Again, that's biggerpockets.com/lenar to sign up now. Please consult your own legal and tax advisors
12:35 Dave Meyer? to evaluate the risks of any real estate transaction. Lennar is an equal housing opportunity builder.
12:41 Henry Washington? If you own rental properties, you know the job does not stop at closing. There's tenant screening, rent collection, maintenance calls, and the paperwork that comes up with all of it. If you're managing more than one to two doors, that workload adds up fast. That's where Mind, BiggerPockets' preferred full-service property management partner, comes in. Mind is built specifically for real estate investors with experienced property management teams, local market expertise, and purpose-built technology. They support leasing, rent collection, maintenance coordination, and reporting. Whether you're managing one rental or scaling towards your 10th, Mind is built to grow with you. It frees up your time to focus on finding your next deal instead of fielding maintenance calls. And it's not just about time.
13:26 Henry Washington? If you're a BiggerPockets pro- Member, Mind will save you $500 for every home you onboard, up to $10,000 in your first year. Check mind.co to save time, money, and frustration. That's M Y N D dot C O. Quick word about a new pro perk you'll want to know about. Aven. If you're a homeowner, there's a good chance you're sitting on equity that you're not using. The problem is tapping into that usually means a cash out refi, a traditional second mortgage, or weeks of paperwork just to get approved. Aven built something different. It's a credit card, but it's backed by your home equity. So you get a lot of the rate benefits of a HELOC with the flexibility of a card you can use anywhere. Rates are typically well below a standard credit card.
14:08 Henry Washington? Approval is fast and mostly online, and you can use it for anything. A renovation, paying down high interest debt, or just have more breathing room in your budget. And if you're a BiggerPockets Pro member, there's an extra reason to check it out. Get approved for the Aven card and you'll get a $400 statement credit after spending $400 on your Aven card. Enough to cover your entire annual Pro membership. Head over to aven.com/biggerpockets to see if you qualify. Aven Financial, NMLS number 2042345. Cards issued per 202 license from Visa USA Inc. by Coastal Community Bank, NMLS number 462289. Member FDIC. Equal housing lender. Subject to approval. Terms apply. Visit aven.com for details.
14:48 Dave Meyer? Thanks for sticking with us. Let's jump back in with Henry Washington. Feels like people are avoiding getting into real estate because we, people who are real estate educators, BiggerPockets is part of this, have been saying, hey, you know, you can get real estate financial freedom in a couple of years. And like I said, you know, in during the 2010s, it was always difficult, but it was easier than it was today. It was easier for sure. But I guess I still feel like the prospect and the value of real estate investing is still so strong that it frustrates me when people are like, I'm not going to get in because now it's going to take 10 years to be financially freedom, or 15 years to financial freedom. That's incredible. The average career
15:28 Dave Meyer? in the United States is like 45 years. So you're saying you can cut it into a third? Like, if that doesn't get you excited, I don't really know, like, what? Would, but I do feel like, I don't know if you hear this too, but I hear people saying like, oh, I can't find cash flow. Like, I'm not going to get into it, but like, the fundamentals haven't really changed. This is kind of always how it's worked.
15:47 Henry Washington? The fundamentals are, haven't changed. They're more important now than they've ever been, right? Like, it's the fundamentals you have to stick to now in order to be successful. But yeah, this is the best way to accelerate that path in any manner that a normal person could. Can you do it in other pathways? Can you do it in the stock market? Yeah, but you gotta get really good at trading stocks. But the average person in real estate can do this without being a professional real estate investor. And that's incredible.
16:18 Dave Meyer? Given this, given the reality, it sounds like we agree that it's going to take you 12 to 15 years to do it. In my mind, that's fantastic. And you can sort of be agnostic, at least to me, about how you pursue that active income.
16:32 Henry Washington? Yeah.
16:33 Dave Meyer? I think there's a good argument to be made that you should just pursue whatever active income makes you the most money. And like, for me, that's continuing in a regular job. But it sounds like for you, why did you make that choice, knowing that you needed active income? To do it through real estate rather than, you had a good job, right? Like, you had a good corporate job and you chose to leave that.
16:52 Henry Washington? Yes, I did have a great corporate job and I enjoyed my job. That's why I kept it as long as humanly possible. I was gonna do both until I could not do both anymore, right? Like, until I just, someone was gonna stop me from doing both, right? Right? And I did. That's what happened is I, I quit when it cost me money to have the job. When they wanted me to work more hours and I just couldn't give them more hours. Cause it would take away from what I was doing in, in real estate. But the, the answer to your question is, I had to choose the real estate because, I mean, I'm, I'm just, I'm throwing it all out here. I was making a hundred and $10,000 a year, which isn't a ton of money, but it's good money, right? Like, it's good money. It's hard not to choose real estate as your full-time income path.
17:36 Henry Washington? When I'd have to trade 40 hours a week for 12 months to make a hundred and $10,000. If you count my bonus, I was probably making closer to a hundred and $40,000. When I could flip two houses and make that and I could flip two houses in the same month.
17:53 Dave Meyer? Yeah, would you put it that way?
17:54 Henry Washington? Right, right. We just sold a deal and made 70K like last week. So like, and yeah, it took us five months to make 70K, but that wasn't the only house I was flipping. Like I had to choose the real estate. It made more financial sense. And also I love it so much more than I loved my day job. I just, I liked my day job. I love doing this.
18:16 Dave Meyer? Obviously I've chosen the other path, right? I, I continue to work full time at BiggerPockets. And I think there are pros and cons, but for me, just I like having a steady paycheck. I like knowing that my bills are covered. I like having benefits.
18:33 Henry Washington? That's the thing no one thinks about when they leave that W2. The insurance is stupid.
18:40 Dave Meyer? As you know, I just moved back to the United States and I'm like, holy crap.
18:44 Henry Washington? Yeah, it's no joke.
18:44 Dave Meyer? Insurance costs are insane, but that's just like my psychology. I like having that because what I feel like is it allows me to feel comfortable taking risk in real estate because I know that if, you know, I invest in a syndication and it doesn't do well, I'll be fine. You know, like my, my, I, I live within my W2 income and real estate is just like gravy for me.
19:10 Henry Washington? So said differently, if BiggerPockets went away tomorrow, would you go find another W2 because you like the consistent income? Or would you figure out a way to use real estate full time?
19:21 Dave Meyer? I guess probably the latter, I think. You know, like it's pretty hard for me to think about working at another corporation right now.
19:30 Henry Washington? I don't think me or James Daynard would let you go get another job. We would just feed you deals until you got good enough to do this on your own.
19:37 Dave Meyer? Well, the funny thing is I got into my job at BiggerPockets because I really liked real estate. I got into real estate in 2010, sort of on a, on a whim. Like it was, a friend of mine was doing it and I was like, that seems fun. I'm going to do that. And I could really use 250 bucks a month. So I started doing that. And then I went back to grad school and I was like, I really just like the real estate thing. And so I Googled real estate tech jobs and found BiggerPockets. It was like down the road from where I was living, which is kind of coincidence. But I've always like really liked the real estate side of it. It was, you know, so I think I would find a way to either do private lending or or flip houses or just be
20:20 Dave Meyer? even more involved in my rental properties because I do think I probably give up three, four percent cash on cash return a year, more than that because I pay eight percent to the property manager. But even on top of that, there's just an inefficiency of it. Like I can't spend enough time on it. And I'm okay with that because it allows me to make my income. But I would probably do something like that. Yeah, because I don't know, I it'd be hard to think about just like starting a new corporate.
20:48 Henry Washington? Yes, yes. That was the position I found myself in.
20:52 Dave Meyer? Yeah, I get that. Are there any, I mean, benefits? You just brought that up as one of the trade offs. But are there trade offs?
20:58 Henry Washington? Yeah. Well, first and foremost, it's just scary. So what helped me jump off the cliff, actually, was we were selling a flip. So this was 2021. That was when things were going crazy. And what had happened was we're selling two properties. And we ended up getting over asking on both properties. And the amount over what we had underwritten them to sell at ended up being like a year's salary.
21:23 Dave Meyer? Oh, my God.
21:24 Henry Washington? From the W two. And I was like, Look, we've got this extra money. We weren't planning on. Let's just squirrel that away into an account. And that gives us 12 months. We're used to this income. We'll just pay ourselves out of that account for 12 months. And if this real estate full time thing doesn't work, then I'll go get another job. And so that's that was what gave us the confidence to really pull the trigger.
21:43 Dave Meyer? Yeah, I mean, I would imagine that it's harder for people now to do that. But I think it's also important to remember that was the anomaly, not now.
21:53 Henry Washington? Yeah.
21:53 Dave Meyer? And people think, you know, I can't quit my job in real estate immediately. So, you know, because it was easier back then. But like, that was unusual. The types of returns and the types of deals that you see today are actually closer. To historical norms.
22:09 Henry Washington? Yeah.
22:09 Dave Meyer? And real estate was still a good investment in the 90s when you were, you know, when it was like still these kinds of returns. Or during the early, you know, 2010s, when the returns were solid, but not spectacular. Still better than any other asset class, at least in my opinion. So I, I just think it's important to remember, even though you hear these stories about like fantastic returns, you don't need that. It's great. I hope it happens to everyone, but like you don't need that to become financially independent or to pursue financial independence through real estate. We gotta take a break, but on the other side, more of the BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast. For my wife's birthday, I wanted to make her a new website for her landscape design business. So I researched a lot of different options.
22:52 Dave Meyer? I tried out a couple, but honestly, it was really overwhelming. It was pretty time consuming and still the site wasn't coming out the way I wanted it to. Then I tried HostingGur and everything was super simple. I asked HostingGur's AI to build a clean site for her business and it had a working version up in minutes. No coding or designer needed. Plus its AI agent helps with SEO, website copy and email marketing after launch. You get domain, website, email, all in one account. And right now you can get Black Friday and Cyber Monday pricing through December 14th. So snag HostingGur services at their lowest prices before the sale ends.
23:35 Dave Meyer? Create your website today for just a dollar 99. Go to HostingGur.com/realestate and use code REALESTATE for an additional 10% off Black Friday and Cyber Monday pricing.
23:46 Henry Washington? Buy smart, drive for less and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability and it all starts with a great deal from your local Toyota dealer. Make a smart buy on an all wheel drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or get a Corolla sedan packed with the latest features, advanced tech and head turning style. Take a test drive in two of Toyota's most popular SUVs. The spacious, family-friendly Grand Highlander and adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid and plug-in hybrid models available across the lineup, plus efficient all-electrics like the BZ. BZ Woodland and all wheel drive CHR, you can drive your way and skip the pump. And long after you leave the lot, your Toyota keeps delivering with legendary resale value built on a reputation for quality and reliability.
24:30 Henry Washington? So when it's time for your next Toyota, you could trade in for more from a great deal today to a great value tomorrow. A Toyota is right for you. Shop toyota.com for deals and details or stop by your local Toyota dealer today. Toyota, let's go places.
24:46 Dave Meyer? I just booked a ski trip to Park City and I've already got the whole thing planned out. Five days, first tracks every morning before the crowds show up, my knees reminding me I'm not 25 anymore by the second run and an embarrassing number of overpriced burritos at the lodge. I don't even care. This is the trip I look forward to all year. But here's the part I actually appreciate. The practical side of my brain kicking in is that my place doesn't have to just sit there empty the whole time I'm away. I can list my space on Airbnb and bring in a little extra income while I'm out getting humbled on a mountain. And with the co-host network, I'm not the one handling all of it. You can partner with a vetted local co-host
25:30 Dave Meyer? who can create your listing, manage reservations, message guests and even handle the styling. So I get to fully focus on my trip and my place is still working for me the whole time. Find a co-host at airbnb.com/host. Investing in real estate has always been smart, but it hasn't always been simple. Now it's both, thanks to the Fundrise Flagship Fund. The Fundrise Flagship Fund launched more than five years ago with a mission of delivering low fee access to blue chip private market real estate. Today, the Fundrise Flagship Fund has grown to manage more than $1 billion of real estate on behalf of hundreds of thousands of investors, making it one of the largest funds of its kind. For those who believe real estate
26:15 Dave Meyer? has an important role to play in their portfolio strategy, the Fundrise Flagship Fund has positioned itself as both a simple and a smart option. Whether you're starting with $10 or $10,000. The Fundrise Flagship Fund makes adding real estate's unique potential for both passive income and consistent growth. Just visit fundrise.com/pockets to make your first investment today. Carefully consider the investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses of the Fundrise Flagship Fund before investing. This and other information can be found in the fund's prospectus at fundrise.com/flagship. This is a paid advertisement.
26:53 Henry Washington? BiggerPockets Real Estate is brought to you by MOD. MOD prescribes a once or twice daily modophonal drink that can keep you energized, focused, and alert throughout the day. Here's the mechanism. Energy drinks with caffeine temporarily block edenicine, the chemical that makes you tired. It builds up, and when the caffeine wears off, it all crashes down on you at once. Modafinil works differently. It engages multiple pathways in your brain: dopamine, norepinephrine, histamine, and orexin to achieve steady energy and alertness for 10 to 12 hours. Modafinil was invented in the 1970s, and since it's been used in the highest performers on the planet, soldiers, pilots, and astronauts aboard the space station use modophinil in high-stakes situations where full concentration
27:36 Henry Washington? and alertness are paramount. It's now available at mod.com to qualifying patients. Visit mod.com, that's M-O-D dot com, for free consultation and get 10% off your first order plus free shipping with promo code BPRE. That's promo code BPRE at mod.com. See their website for important safety information, and we thank MOD for sponsoring the pod.
28:05 Dave Meyer? We're back with the rest of the BiggerPockets Real Estate Podcast.
28:09 Henry Washington? I would say the biggest trade-off, to answer your previous question, is it's not instant money when I'm flipping houses, right? It can be quicker if you do assignments, but I don't do assignments. So if I'm making money, I have to find something, I have to buy the something, and then I have to get it to a point to where somebody else wants to buy that something from me. And I also rely on somebody else needing to want to sell to me. It's not like I can just go to this open marketplace and buy properties that are going to make me a bunch of money. Yes, the MLS exists. Yes, there are deals on it, but it takes a lot of effort to do that in volume and use it sustainably.
28:50 Henry Washington? Right? And so because I'm buying off market and because I have to flip a house, I'm doing work today that I won't get paid for for at least sixty to ninety days, and that's fast, but it's probably closer between four to six months. And so if you slack today, that doesn't hurt you now. It hurts you down the road. And if you find yourself in a lull where like you couldn't find a deal over thirty to sixty days or something, you're going to be in this position down the road where you're like, I don't know where money is going to come from.
29:24 Dave Meyer? Right. Yeah, that's scary.
29:26 Henry Washington? That's a scary trade off, right? Like, so you've got to be really good about your money and budgeting your money so that you can have income throughout the year because it's not a sustainable source. So like that's what I envy about what you have. You got money every two weeks, right? And, and it's not like that here. Yes, I make them in bigger chunks, but then you have to be more financially responsible with it so that it's not all gone at the same time.
29:49 Dave Meyer? See, that's why I can't do what you're doing. I'm not financially responsible.
29:55 Dave Meyer? No, I actually, I always joke with my wife because like I've become a financial educator and I've never had a budget in my entire life.
30:06 Dave Meyer? I never had one.
30:07 Henry Washington? I do neither.
30:08 Dave Meyer? I would just spend money until I didn't have any and then I'd eat ramen for a few days and you'd wait and you'd figure it out. Like I just, I've never done that. And like, that's probably one of the reasons I like having this steady income because it's like, I can't mess up that badly in two weeks.
30:26 Dave Meyer? I am just kidding. I've obviously figured out a way to be financially responsible, but there is like a psychology element of that that like would worry me like every, you know, if there was a lull for a month, even though it's not realistic, like I would be fine. It would like sort of weigh on me a little bit. And it's also when you were talking about that. It made me realize or think about how you almost have to to be responsible, do both at the same time if you're going to transition into it because you have gotten to a point where you do enough flips and you have such a good pipeline that even if you're, you know, you miss on one month, you don't get an acquisition, you're like, I'm going to get one
31:07 Dave Meyer? next month. You have like a pretty good idea of that. But if you just quit your job and you're like, I'm going to go flip houses, then you better have that deal flow work out really quick. Just assuming you're an average person who doesn't have like months and months and months of emergency reserves. Like that's, that could get bad quickly. So you sort of have to develop the pipeline of deal flow while you're still working full time.
31:31 Henry Washington? You have to build some level of consistency into your business before you quit because someone has to want to sell me a house. Now, I know how to go look for those people. I know how to help those people. Like I've positioned myself in a way where that I can build a business around that. But it's not like I am relying on somebody else to decide that they want me to buy their home for me to make money. That's, that's tough.
31:55 Dave Meyer? Yeah, for sure. And you're very good at it. And you've practiced a lot to be able to have that confidence. And it just doesn't come that quickly. And I'm enjoying this conversation because I really just want people to realize two things that Henry and I are talking about here. First and foremost, the idea that you're going to just do nothing in the next few years, very unlikely, unless you're starting from a very advantaged place with a lot of cash. And if you're going to do what, I don't know, what it's probably 95% or more of real estate investors still work for active income. I think it might even be higher than that.
32:30 Henry Washington? I think it's higher than that.
32:31 Dave Meyer? I think it's everyone. And like, you know, if you're going to do these things at the same time, earn active income and invest long term so that eventually you can really do nothing. You can choose either the path I've gone down, which is to work a more traditional career and invest on the side, or you could do what Henry's done. And there were sort of just trade offs and pros and cons between both of them, but both are pretty common. You know, like you do need active income and you don't need to quit your job. The more common way to do this is to find a way to earn income right now and invest that into passive assets for the long term.
33:04 Henry Washington? When we talk about kind of our approaches to real estate, they sound different, but the framework is ideally the same of what you and I are doing, which is we're buying assets. So we're growing our portfolio to whatever comfortability level we are with that, right? And then we're stabilizing those assets, right? And then we are focusing on getting those assets paid off. And across all three of those buckets, we, you and I both have active income coming in to help us fulfill what's happening in those buckets so that we can finally finish off that third bucket of paying off the assets so that we can be financially free. Like our framework is exactly the same.
33:44 Dave Meyer? Yeah.
33:44 Henry Washington? How we're generating the income and where within our process we are is different, but the frame is the same.
33:50 Dave Meyer? That's, that's a really good point. Yeah. I, I hope that is encouraging to people because I'm sure you hear this all the time. This expectation that you need to quit your job or to be in real estate or feel the pressure honestly to retire and do nothing just isn't necessary. And like, I think, you know, you were saying, you think it's higher than 95%, but like, do you actually even know anyone who is truly retired from real estate?
34:18 Henry Washington? Maybe one investor, maybe of all the people I've ever met.
34:22 Dave Meyer? Yeah. Right. Cause everyone keeps doing stuff.
34:25 Henry Washington? That dream of going and, and sitting on the beach and retiring and living, like I know plenty of investors who moved to the beach, but they work in while they're there.
34:31 Dave Meyer? Totally. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So hopefully this conversation helps normalize this for people. I just realized that like, real estate is fantastic. It's incredible what it does for you. Just go into it with realistic expectations and not only will that like help you get in and get over some of the fear, I actually think it makes real estate investing easier.
34:52 Henry Washington? Yeah.
34:52 Dave Meyer? Let me just give you an example. Like I will buy a deal. Right now, that makes three or 4% cash on cash return because it's a great asset in a great neighborhood. And I don't need more than that. I don't need 8% cash flow because I don't need the money right now. And it allows you to sort of take this sort of long-term view.
35:11 Henry Washington? Yeah.
35:12 Dave Meyer? Like, deal selection and portfolio strategy becomes so much easier when you're not hyper-focused on like, how do I replace my income by tomorrow?
35:20 Henry Washington? Yes. That man, the pressure that you don't have to feel in order to do that is amazing. Yeah, it's just buy a good asset in a good appreciating neighborhood that pays for itself and just don't think about it for the next 15 to 20 years. That's pretty cool.
35:36 Dave Meyer? I just want people, especially entering a new year, to go into things with realistic expectations because real estate, just as good, the asset, just as good as a business as it's ever been, if you just have realistic expectations about what is feasible with this asset class, and recognize that a lot of the marketing that was going on in Bigger Pockets as part of this over the last couple of years is not the most common way. The more common way to use real estate is to take 10 or 12 or 15 years to build out a portfolio and give yourself maximum financial freedom just over a longer period of time.
36:13 Henry Washington? Couldn't agree more.
36:14 Dave Meyer? Well, thank you. This was a very fun episode. I appreciate you being here.
36:17 Henry Washington? Hey, man. Thanks for having me. I love putting a realistic spin on things. This is still the greatest financial decision that I've ever made, even though I still work on a day-to-day basis in a real estate business. So, it's changed my life in more ways than I could have ever imagined. And I think that there should be less fear around getting started. There should absolutely be education and preparedness. But there is a strategy that will work for literally almost anyone. And you do not have to be a professional, air quotes, "real estate investor" to hit that level of financial freedom within 10, 12, 15 years. You can just be a regular Joe Schmo with a job and get there.
37:00 Dave Meyer? All right. Well, thank you all so much for listening. We'd love to hear your opinion about financial independence and what it means to you. So, either hit Henry or I up on BiggerPockets or on Instagram or in the comments below if you're watching this on YouTube. Thank you all so much for listening or watching to this episode of the BiggerPockets Podcast. We'll see you again soon.
37:20 Speaker 02 Your sausage McMuffin with egg didn't change. Your receipt did. The sausage McMuffin with Egg Extra Value Meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5. Only at McDonald's for a limited time.
37:32 Speaker 03 Price and participation may vary. Promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing.
Previous J Scott: We’re Due for a Recession, But It Isn’t All Bad for Real Estate Next Should You Pay Off Debt or Invest in Real Estate? (Follow This Rule) | AMA (Ask Meyer Anything) Page updated November 5, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated
