Will the Democrats’ Big Win Stop the AI Buildout? — With Teddy Schleifer

Teddy Schleifer is a New York Times reporter who covers billionaires and their influence on politics. Schleifer joins Big Technology Podcast to discuss what the Democrats’ midterm sweep means for the AI buildout. Tune in to hear why voters are turning against data centers and how much a Democratic Congress can do to slow their construction with Trump still in the White House. We also cover the prospect of tech CEOs facing subpoenas, what the election means for Elon Musk, and California’s proposed billionaire tax. Hit play for an emergency episode on what happens when Silicon Valley embraces a president and voters give the other party control of Congress. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Kantrowitz?

  Now that the Democrats have swept the US midterms, is the AI industry about to get stopped in its tracks by a hostile government? We'll talk about it with New York Times reporter Teddy Schleifer right after this. This episode is brought to you by Cribble. Quick question, is your IT budget growing 30% a year? Because your data is, and now AI agents are piling on, running investigations around the clock and running up three meters at once. Storage, queries and tokens. Cribble, the AI platform for telemetry was built for exactly this. Own all your data, query it wherever it lives, and let Cribble route every AI request to the right model at the right price. The best part, AI inference for workloads on Cribble is included.

• 0:44Alex Kantrowitz?

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• 1:28Speaker 01

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• 1:59Alex Kantrowitz?

  Welcome to Big Technology Podcast, a show for cool headed and nuanced conversation of the tech world and beyond. Stop the presses. We had an episode scheduled for today, but after the big Democrat win in both the Senate and the House, we could see some major shifts in the AI build out coming. So we scrapped our traditional plan for Wednesday and we're bringing in New York Times reporter Teddy Schleifer for an emergency episode about the implications, the potentially far reaching implications of what this midterm win from the Democrats will potentially be extremely hostile. The AI agenda could mean for the AI build out and the massive business that is expecting the build out to continue to go as planned. Teddy, it's good to see you. Welcome to the show.

• 2:44Speaker 02

  Thanks for having me.

• 2:46Alex Kantrowitz?

  So I'm looking at the New York Times homepage right now. Headline at the top, Democrats will have huge majority in the House. The Senate right now has 54 Democrat seats to 44 Republican seats. And the House where there's still counting as 230, well, they're counting in, still counting in both, but the House has more. Outstanding, 237 Democrat seats to 147 Republicans. Obviously, this is going to have major implications on the AI build out. Because a lot of these candidates, we're talking about data centers. They're talking about AI safety in their victory speeches. Like John Ossoff did, the Georgia Senator, when he won on Tuesday.

• 3:28Alex Kantrowitz?

  So what are the implications for the AI build out? And what's your broader reaction to what happened off the bat?

• 3:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it's clearly going to be a new time for the tech industry. I mean, this is not the 2025, 2026 bull run that the industry had politically. I mean, going forward, there is going to be obviously a Democratic majority in both chambers, which are going to be not as pro AI and not as pro data center as the Republican majorities that this industry has enjoyed for the last two years. And you know, just how bad it is, I don't, I don't totally know yet. But the, I think we're going to look back on the last year and a half as a bygone era when this was so unencumbered

• 4:19Speaker 02

  that we, we didn't appreciate it in the moment.

• 4:23Alex Kantrowitz?

  Now, for me, when I think about US politics, I always think, well, the bark is typically louder than the bite. And especially regarding their regulation of tech and the rules they've applied to tech. They haven't really done much, even though there've been like clear excuses. Like all these companies lost, all the big tech companies lost. Antitrust cases or had to settle them with the FTC and the DOJ. And yet, nothing really stopped them. But I do wonder if this time is different, or at least if we're going to see an even greater backlash than we did previously. And one of the things that makes me think about this is a lot of the things that need to happen for the AI build out to continue are physical, right? The world, the word is build out.

• 5:04Alex Kantrowitz?

  They need compute, they need data centers to continue to expand and serve their models. And let me just read you a headline from the Washington Post. A nationwide backlash against data centers erupts at the polls. Voters in at least 38 jurisdictions across the country passed bans or restrictions on data centers on Tuesday. 38 jurisdictions, reflecting the widespread public revolutions to the facilities and adding to the growth, growing pushback on the ambitions of the artificial intelligence industry. I mean, enough said, right? 38 jurisdictions voted were for bans or restrictions on data centers. So on top of this wave, where by the way, they're probably going to be reading the tea leaves here. You have a massive amount of voters coming out and saying,

• 5:49Alex Kantrowitz?

  we don't want data centers in our backyards. So what do you think the implications are there?

• 5:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, this is as close to a national referendum as you're going to get. I mean, this is obviously a brand new industry with, where the politics are still being sorted out in real time. And clearly, a lot of Americans in 38 different places at least feel the same way. I haven't reported a ton on these different, or at all on these referendum or referendum. But clearly, 38 to zero is a pretty good average. I mean, we also saw for the first time this election, the data center industry do their own super PAC, which is kind of, I think speaks to the ways in which the political winds are blowing here, which is that all of this political energy around AI, I think is going to be channeled much more narrowly

• 6:38Speaker 02

  into the next battle around data center specifically. Where, why do you start a data center super PAC? It's because you have, you face political challenges or policy headwinds. And the data center super PAC spent a bunch of money to try to help elect Darlene Graham in South Carolina. She did not win. And I think going forward, a lot of the, as a lot of these fights kind of take off, you know, there's going to need to be money spent on behalf of the data center industry. Because clearly, regular people are voting the other way. I mean, that's why advocacy operations happen. It's to basically convince people to do something that they wouldn't do otherwise.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  And right now, a lot of voters are registering their point of view. And the data center industry is only beginning to kind of play, play offense. So, you know, I think we're just getting started here. And I think next 2028, I think there's going to be a ton of spending politically on data centers.

• 7:42Alex Kantrowitz?

  Now, you're the world's preeminent reporter on how tech money influences politics. And

• 7:49Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 7:50Alex Kantrowitz?

  It's true. It's true. Okay, folks, for those listening, Teddy and I are friends in case you can't figure it out. But it's really true. No one does it like you, Teddy. And I just want to hear your perspective on what your sources are telling you about what the implications are going to be, if you can share. Because I would imagine they are likely, like the people who are politically active in tech, spending money to get their agenda. They were very pleased in 2024. I imagine they're equally terrified now.

• 8:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, look, the comeuppance here for, for the tech industry, I think is still TBD, but clearly like, I don't think we're appreciating just how good they had it. You know, on AI in particular, I mean, this was an administration that was very pliant to the industry. The, you know, Trump is still going to be in the White House. It's not as if there's going to be like massive, you know, democratic reforms that are going to be passed from both chambers and, and signed by President Trump. I think, I think it's probably unlikely. But there's going to be guardrails now in a way that there wasn't, at least in terms of legislation. And there's going to be investigations too, right?

• 9:07Speaker 02

  I mean, you know, take Elon Musk, who, you know, is suddenly going to be in the barrel in a way that he was not two days ago. So whiplash is coming, right? I mean, you went from being, you know, a co-president or for a while effectively kind of helping lead the US government to suddenly being like testifying on the Hill. There's going to be this whole, whole effort by Democrats, I think, to atone for the last two years of what Democrats see as, as an industry run amok. So I expect it to be pretty brutal. I think that the political calculus is changing rapidly for all these companies too.

• 9:51Speaker 02

  Like, I think there's going to be, there's been all, there have been all these jokes I've seen on Twitter or about like these efforts by democratic or tech companies to like re-embrace their DEI policies and then, you know, re-embrace kind of their democratic bona fides. Like, it's a joke and it's funny because there's an element of truth to it. I think there's going to be, you know, tech companies that are hiring or promoting, you know, government relations heads who are tied to the Democratic Party and making sure that they know that they have a democratic mega donor in leadership, stuff like that. Part of this is perception. And I think the companies wanted to fulfill a certain perception from 2025, 2026.

• 10:35Speaker 02

  And they'll fulfill a different perception in the next two years.

• 10:39Alex Kantrowitz?

  Okay. And as much as you can say, is the vibe around the people that you speak with, like this is not going to be a big deal or, or oh goodness, we're in trouble? Like, what is their basically emotional state today?

• 10:51Speaker 02

  I think it's the latter. I think it'll be a big deal for the tech industry and it'll be, it'll be painful.

• 10:58Alex Kantrowitz?

  And they realize that.

• 11:00Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't know if they realize that yet, but I think they're beginning to realize that. The things are, I think, they're still, the election last night was very shocking in a way that people are not totally grappling with the results yet. Also, this is, I'm saying this is only two years, like, you know, a lot of these US senators were obviously just elected for six years. So, you know, there's going to be a lot of Democrats who ran for the Senate on a agenda, at least when they ran, on like, taking on the billionaire class, taking on the AI industry, taking on data centers. And these people are going to be in office for the next six years. So it is not as if these things will be easily reversed. So they have

• 11:41Speaker 02

  six years to grapple with it. And in a lot of ways, that shows kind of the generational impact of this election is that there's all these accidental senators or accidental congressmen who are going to be here for, at least some of them will be here for a while, and that's going to reshape kind of the political context of tech.

• 12:04Alex Kantrowitz?

  You know, it is interesting because the tech leadership did embrace Trump and the Republican Party pretty intensely. Now, there's nuance there, right? It's like, of course, like David Sacks and the All In Podcast, and Jensen Huang have been like, very big, you know, supporters of, well, supporters of Trump. They've praised him, you know, Sacks works in the administration. But to Democrats, that's also, you know, that there, and not everybody has been on that level. But I think what really matters is what it looks like to Democrats. And to Democrats, you know, they're going to look back at those pictures of all the tech CEOs at the inauguration. They're going to look at the vibe that they're

• 12:47Alex Kantrowitz?

  getting from Silicon Valley. They're going to look at the polling numbers for AI, which are miserable, right? In the toilet. And I'm curious what you think, whether you think that will embolden them to, you know, take more aggressive action or make this one of their bigger issues?

• 13:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. I think that's true. I mean, I mean, tell me what you think is going to be, what's striking you with that question?

• 13:17Alex Kantrowitz?

  Well, I think so. I mean, it's one of, it's almost a perfect storm. Like, we're about, just think about this. The election swayed on, you know, depending on who you ask, swayed on a couple of things. I would say number one is cost of living. And, and maybe 1A is the war in Iran, which comes back to cost of living because of, you know, the, because of what its impact on fuel prices, and hence, goods. And you have, so you have a nation upset about cost of living and ready to like legitimately vote out any party that they think is making it worse. On the other hand, you're, or on, in column B, you're going

• 14:02Alex Kantrowitz?

  to see these AI IPOs come out. And we've talked about it on the show on Friday. How many multimillionaires, the Anthropic IPO is going to, is going to mint. How many multimillionaires the OpenAI IPO is going to mint? The fact that Nvidia is a $5 trillion company, et cetera, et cetera, goes down the line. And so, if you're, if you're, it's interesting, because regulating tech has never been a winning political issue. Like, think about Elizabeth Warren's campaign. She went big into regulating tech. You know how she placed, you know, as a non-factor? That was one of her bigger issues. So the political calculation

• 14:42Alex Kantrowitz?

  is not straightforward, but if you look around and you see what's going on in the country, somebody's going to make that a big issue. And if they start to get traction, you know, you could see a pile-on effect. That's my perspective here.

• 14:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I see that for sure. I mean, clearly, there's going to be, these elections are in addition to being meaningful for policy criteria. I mean, like, these politicians read these election results and act in ways that are response to them, right? I mean, the 2028 campaign is shaped by the 2026 campaign, and 2024 was shaped by 2022, et cetera. And if you're a Democratic politician right now, you're sort of observing what types of messages are getting through, what types of things are working. And Republicans as well, right? I mean, I think, you know, JD Vance is, you know, put out a statement today that was

• 15:40Speaker 02

  laced with 2028 presidential campaign intrigue, because it's like a response to what he sees the electorate is saying in 2026. And that sort of politics is responding to elections and responding to what the perceived narrative or mandate is that arises out of those.

• 16:00Alex Kantrowitz?

  Senator Ed Markey, Democrat, responded to a post on X, live televised trials of Big Tech executives when, and he wrote, "They are going to need to plant new forests for all the subpoenas we'll be printing."

• 16:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:16Alex Kantrowitz?

  Is that bluster, or you think we could see a march of AI CEOs and Big Tech CEOs coming down to Washington?

• 16:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely. I don't think, I don't think that's bluster. That's, that's, that's, that's easy. I mean, you know, some Republicans will probably join them in that.

• 16:30Alex Kantrowitz?

  Right. And so what do you think the, is it just like bully pulpit stuff where you sort of, you talk down to Sam Altman from your high desk and it becomes viral on YouTube?

• 16:41Speaker 02

  Or is it? That's what everyone else has done to date, right? I mean,

• 16:46Alex Kantrowitz?

  Right.

• 16:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, sure. Let's, I mean, run, run back the, the same aesthetic and logistics of the, of all the, the, you know, social media trials, so to speak, in, before Congress, in the, in the Trump term and the Biden term. I think there's going to be a lot of scrutiny on all these AI company CEOs. Yeah.

• 17:08Alex Kantrowitz?

  Do you think those are actually effective? Like, I look back, and it's interesting because I was in the room for the Mark Zuckerberg hearing.

• 17:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:15Alex Kantrowitz?

  The famous one where he said, "Senator, we run ads." And, you know, you almost expected it to be this excruciating moment for Zuckerberg, but he handled it well enough. It almost shifted the public sentiment on Facebook to a degree, and nothing happened to the company. And, you know, the, the meme became, you know, Zuckerberg stands up to the bullies as opposed to Zuckerberg is the bad guy. So I am curious, like, if you think these things are effective, and what you think the effect could be on AI companies?

• 17:46Speaker 02

  I don't, I mean, the, they're effective in that they, that are like, public spectacles, right? And that's, you know, if you're a Democratic politician who wants to kind of keep the spectacle, you know, make it, make it as spectacular as possible, you know, these are easy targets, right? I mean, Altman, or Dario, or, you know, Dennis, or whomever, I mean, I think there's an element of, of, they're spectacles because the public is kind of on your side. So there's a flogging of them. And clearly, I don't, I mean, effective in what? In kind of making, you can successfully flog them if you do these things. What is

• 18:29Speaker 02

  that, what is that achieving, I guess is kind of a question about what is it, why are these people in Congress to begin with? Is it just a kind of?

• 18:36Alex Kantrowitz?

  Yeah. Yeah, I think it all, it all boils down to data centers, effectively, is will these, will these companies have, well, will these companies, ultimately, they need public support to be able to build data centers, and they need to build data centers to grow. I mean, we're living in the middle of a pretty big compute shortage. And there've been a few states that have been friendly for these companies to build their data centers in, Virginia, Texas. And Texas actually had a pretty interesting result where the, I would say mostly pro, although recently somewhat more lukewarm governor, Abbott has, has lost. And now there's a Democrat that's going to come in. And in fact, like, I was

• 19:21Alex Kantrowitz?

  speaking with somebody recently who's like, who watches this very closely. And I said, "How are you feeling about the midterms?" And this person said, "Up until recently, I was feeling fine, until I saw the Texas polling numbers." And now could be a real issue. So I'm curious to hear your perspective on, on what could happen there.

• 19:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, Texas, I think, you know, is like, I saw some stat that it was like 30% of like, data center development is in Texas. Like, you know, this is, this is a state that has embraced it, and Abbott, you know, has embraced the issue, and he's a powerful, I think, three-term governor now, that he's ending his third term. And, you know, that's an earthquake there, right? I mean, you know, Gina Hinojosa has like, really tried to use that as a millstone around Abbott, and has been pretty successful, or, you know, she won, based in part on that. And, you know, that's why there was so much kind of tech spending, and one, one reason why there was so much tech spending to try to save Greg Abbott. I mean, Elon Musk gave $5 million to the Abbott campaign in September.

• 20:24Speaker 02

  And clearly, I mean, obviously, his companies are based in Texas, and there was an effort by the Musk operation to make sure this did not happen. And now, it's a sea change in Texas politics. I mean, I started, my first job was in Houston, Texas, covering the Wendy Davis campaign in 2014. And, you know, it took 12 years for that to finally pay off. And, you know, still sort of feels unbelievable, given the PTSD that I think lots of Texas Democrats and lots of Texas-based reporters have had about this ever actually happening. To see it actually happen, you know, it's, it's cool to witness history.

• 21:06Alex Kantrowitz?

  Darlene Graham, Lindsey Graham's sister, she was one that was supported in a major way by this data center.

• 21:11Speaker 02

  Super PAC.

• 21:12Alex Kantrowitz?

  Industry super PAC that you reported on.

• 21:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:15Alex Kantrowitz?

  I don't think she lost in particular because of her data center perspectives. I think she was asked in one debate, you know, a foreign policy question, she said, "I don't really pay attention much to foreign policy," or something along that line. But it does seem like she was one of the main candidates they were hoping to get elected, and that's not going to happen for them either.

• 21:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I mean, there's always a lot of reasons why people lose, uh, uh, lose or win. And I think one of the, one of the challenges about kind of super PACs and political spending in general is like people, you know, if everyone who wins is a genius, everyone who loses is an idiot. And like, the reality is, you know, this is a wave election and, and I don't really know if any of these kind of campaign interventions like really worked. Um, you know, we could talk about Musk if you want, but I mean, everybody who spends in these races, um, uh, is trying to shift public opinion and public opinion here was pretty baked. Um, uh, and it didn't quite succeed.

• 22:16Alex Kantrowitz?

  Right. Um, okay. Before we go to break, because I do want to talk to you about Musk. Um, and I want to talk to you about the billionaires tax.

• 22:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:25Alex Kantrowitz?

  Interesting thing that's happening in the market today, um, that I was somewhat surprised by, but it probably shouldn't have been. Uh, Bloomberg has the headline, big tech stores on bet Dems will save AI spenders from themselves. So clearly the market believes that the Democrats or whoever it will be, uh, will be successful in their attempt to stop AI build outs. This is the Bloomberg story. The shares of US technology giants led the market higher on Wednesday as investors bet that a Democrat controlled Congress will slow the massive spending on artificial intelligence that's eating up free cash flow. Amazon jumped 8.3%. Microsoft, 7%. Alphabet, almost 6%. Meta, 3.6%. I mean, they, this is crazy. Together with

• 23:08Alex Kantrowitz?

  Apple, uh, which has avoided heavy AI spending, uh, and leaped more than 6%, the five tech BMS are on pace to add nearly a trillion dollars in market value on Wednesday. Um, all stemming from this belief that, that, that the government is going to make them stop spending on data centers. It's remarkable.

• 23:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:29Speaker 02

  I don't know what to say.

• 23:32Alex Kantrowitz?

  All right. Okay. Well, I'll leave that as the last point. Um, it's going to be very interesting, uh, to see what happens on that moving forward. Okay. When we come back, a word about Elon Musk, a word about the billionaires tax, uh, and then, uh, we'll let Teddy get back to his reporting. So I'll be back right after this. When you're at work, you never know when you'll be interrupted. But with the Dell Pro powered by Intel Core Ultra with V Pro, no matter what distracts you, your laptop won't. It's battery optimized for the way you work with built in intelligence that quiets distractions when you need to focus. Your laptop will help keep you locked in, even when it's bring your dog to work day. Built for those who stay in the flow. That's Dell

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• 24:23Alex Kantrowitz?

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• 25:50Alex Kantrowitz?

  know it was Big Technology Podcast. It's the best way to support the show. And we're back here on Big Technology Podcast with Teddy Schleifer, reporter at the New York Times, covering billionaires and their impact on the world, tech money and its effect on politics. Uh, a lot going on on Teddy's beat, of course. Um, Teddy, you joined the Times in 2024, just as Elon Musk was spending a fortune getting close to Trump, being a major, uh, national political player. You, uh, put your, your sort of scorecard up on X, uh, last night, owned by Elon Musk, of course. You wrote a very overly simplified report card for big money tonight. Elon Musk lost, Republican donors lost, crypto lost,

• 26:32Alex Kantrowitz?

  billionaires tax TBD. Um, you also pointed out that Elon Musk, uh, had a post on X Tuesday morning, said, uh, vote red today, uh, and then that disappeared from his profile. Um, what do you think the impact of this is going to be on Musk?

• 26:53Speaker 02

  Musk spent, you know, nearly $500 million. It's the most that anybody's ever spent on an election. Um, uh, ever when they were not running for president themselves. Yeah, yeah. It's the most that everyone's ever spent on an election ever when they were not the candidate themselves. Um, um, 500, $500 million in the midterms. Um, probably more, but we'll see. Um, um, you know, uh, this is a dramatic failure for him. I mean, uh, even though I do think it is true that there's a lot of reasons why, you know, Ken Paxton did not win in Texas, for instance. Um, politics is a binary. It's about, you know, campaigns are binary. It's about winning versus losing. And his people lost. Um, you

• 27:37Speaker 02

  know, Republicans lost. So everybody affiliated with, um, the Republican, um, spending operation lost. Um, and, um, you know, it just happens that Musk did more than anyone else. Um, so, uh, it's, it's a tough, it's a tough day to be that the Musk team, I mean, I think they're ultimately going to have to, uh, assess what they want to do politically going forward. Um, you know, Musk has basically been saying that he wants to play a big role in 2028. He wants to play, um, you know, that this is a multi-cycle effort. Um, but, um, the fact that he's like deleting tweets and, you know, making jokes about his political spending suggests to me that he knows this did not go well. Um, uh, and, um, uh, I think

• 28:20Speaker 02

  there's going to be significant pain for him, uh, politically going forward. I mean, you mentioned the Ed Markey tweet earlier, but like, you know, there's going to be investigations and obviously it's not just about Tesla and SpaceX. I mean, like Musk, you know, oversaw, um, so much gutting of the federal government with, with Doge and, um, Musk could be, uh, investigated or, or, or probed, um, for, for that work specifically, which are things, sort of things that probably would not have happened in a Republican, uh, Republican-led Congress.

• 28:51Alex Kantrowitz?

  I, I am anticipating the hearing where the Democrats called big balls to testify and.

• 28:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. That's. Sure. I mean, I think, I think, I think you're joking, but also, I mean, I mean, that's very plausible.

• 29:06Alex Kantrowitz?

  Yeah, this was a guy who was involved in Doge. That was his nickname somehow.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:10Alex Kantrowitz?

  Elon wrote, guess my election interfering space lasers didn't work this time. So he's having a sense of humor about it. I mean, maybe, you know, a, a, could a silver lining for him be that because you won't be able to build data centers on earth, his plan to build data centers in space actually becomes a good business?

• 29:28Speaker 02

  I think the silver lining for him is that there's actually a, and this is true of, I think this is going to sound like spin, but I think there's an element of truth to it, that, um, that Republicans are, um, more likely to win in 2028 with kind of opposition from Democrats. Um, you know, if you're, obviously the next two years will be painful for Republicans, um, including President Trump. But like, if you want Republicans to win in 2028, like some spin I've heard is that it'll still be good for, for them to have a Democratic foil. Maybe Democrats will overreact, try to impeach, stuff like that. Um, and that's potentially good news for, for, for Mr. Musk.

• 30:09Alex Kantrowitz?

  Okay. Uh, billionaires tax, another big thing on the ballot.

• 30:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, I said, I said TD in that tweet, but as, as of now, it's looking like a win.

• 30:18Alex Kantrowitz?

  That, so talk a little bit about what's.

• 30:20Speaker 02

  A win, a win for the billionaire tax opponents. Yeah.

• 30:23Alex Kantrowitz?

  Okay. So talk about what was at stake there and what happened.

• 30:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. So the proposal was for a one-time 5% tax. Um, uh, people in California who have over a billion dollars in net worth. Um, there was a pretty unprecedented campaign against it where over $330 million was raised into a political nonprofit, um, linked to Sergey Brin, the, the Google founder. This was Sergey's most significant political activity by far ever. Um, and it looks like they killed it. Um, you know, at the time we're recording this, um, we know the New York Times has not made a call in that, in that race yet, but, um, you'd rather be the side that's, that's, that's, uh, opposing the tax and the side that's supporting it. And, um, the Musk, sorry, the Brin operation, uh, had

• 31:07Speaker 02

  a massive advantage in paid advertising. I mean, you know, I, the, the pro tax side barely mounted any, any campaign for it. Um, and, uh, this kind of galvanized the tech industry and, you know, uh, I did a story with my colleague, Aaron Griffith, about all the ways in which Sergey and Patrick Collison and John Doerr were like, you know, getting their, their buddies to, to chip in on this thing. And it became, uh, a victory story for, for the tech industry or appears so. So, um, uh, not only that, actually, there's also another tax, uh, proposition on the California ballot that would effectively ban this in the future. And that looks like it's going to pass. So there is going to be this kind of downside protection going forward too. And, um, um, you know, for all

• 31:52Speaker 02

  the trouble of, of achieving your impact with money in politics, this is the, this is the counter example where, um, the billionaires, uh, look like they succeeded.

• 32:03Alex Kantrowitz?

  The interesting thing, I think a lot of folks were like, if the billionaire tax passes, I'm going to move to Texas. And now Texas is blue.

• 32:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Like, well, now, and now the tax, now the tax has, if the taxes,

• 32:20Speaker 02

  if the tax repeal, if the tax loses, people can move back. Right? I mean, like, like, I've been joking with some people today on this. So.

• 32:31Alex Kantrowitz?

  I can only wait for California's new slogan to be California, open for business.

• 32:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, come back, escape. You know, there's a, there's a blue state governor in Texas and a blue state governor in California, but at least California has banned wealth taxes, which I don't think Texas has done.

• 32:47Alex Kantrowitz?

  That's correct. Very important. Any thoughts on actual legislation being passed? I mean, there's these bans that will probably happen locally. There was a story in Transformer, what the blue tsunami means for AI policy. The likelihood of strong frontier AI legislation passing next year shot up. Democrats have signaled repeatedly that AI is a top priority. Some citing it in victory speeches with such large majorities, the need for them to compromise is much lower. I'll just say personally, I don't, I don't see any coherent AI legislation outside of like, we're banning something come out of the US government, or the federal government at least.

• 33:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's still going to be a Republican in the White House, right? So like, you know, the way things pass, just as a refresher, you need both houses of Congress to sign, to pass something, and then the president has to sign it. And, and, and that seems unlikely to happen, but who knows? I mean, there's going to be a deal making, there's going to be some desire for deal making somewhere, maybe. So I don't know if AI is in the Venn diagram of, of kind of what Republicans, Democrats can agree on, but that's certainly something to watch.

• 34:00Alex Kantrowitz?

  Yeah, okay. Any, any big picture thoughts about what happens from here?

• 34:06Speaker 02

  None. No, I mean, I mean, I mean, this is like a massive, massive news story, obviously. And I think there's going to be significant fallout in both parties. And try, and, you know, this was a highly newsworthy, in terms of the, in terms of the possible outcomes here. I mean, this is probably the newsiest possible outcome. So, you know, we're just getting started and figuring it out and coming to terms with what it means. So I'm humble and humble in not knowing what happens next.

• 34:37Alex Kantrowitz?

  All right, folks, I'll leave you all with one stat before we leave. Adam Kevakovic, who is a big tech friendly policy guy. I don't know if he was trying to make the point that it wasn't a big deal, data centers weren't a big deal, or he was just giving some context. He tweeted this poll, how important was AI in data centers to your vote with NBC News Link? 23% said crucial. 77% said major factor, minor factor, non-factor. I think the point is that most people didn't see it as a, as a crucial election, election issue. But 23% saying crucial is still, that's a lot of people to say that data centers are crucial.

• 35:17Alex Kantrowitz?

  Okay, we'll leave it at that. I know you've been working nonstop for like 48 hours and it's busy, and I appreciate you spending the time with us to help us figure out what's going on. Thanks, Teddy.

• 35:28Speaker 02

  All good. You bet.

• 35:30Alex Kantrowitz?

  Folks, if you want to follow Teddy's writing, obviously go to nytimes.com. What's your Twitter handle, Teddy?

• 35:37Speaker 02

  At Teddy Schleifer.

• 35:38Alex Kantrowitz?

  At Teddy Schleifer. Easy. Okay. Thank you, Teddy. Thanks, everybody for listening and watching. We'll see you next time on Big Technology Podcast.