Radio Better Offline: Andy Richter

Welcome to Radio Better Offline, a tech talk radio show recorded out of iHeartRadio's studio in Los Angeles. In this episode, Ed Zitron is joined by comedian Andy Richter to talk about how comedy and broadcast have evolved thanks to the internet. Follow Andy: https://bsky.app/profile/andyrichter.co The Three Questions: https://teamcoco.com/podcasts/the-three-questions-with-andy-richter The Andy Richter Call-in Show: https://www.siriusxm.com/blog/andy-richter-call-in-show Sixteenth Minute (of Fame): https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-sixteenth-minute-of-fame-172216473/ --- LINKS: https://www.tinyurl.com/betterofflinelinks Newsletter: https://www.wheresyoured.at/ Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/BetterOffline/ Discord: chat.wheresyoured.at https://discord.com/invite/QUUQUP9szv Ed's Socials: https://twitter.com/edzitron https://www.instagram.com/edzitron https://bsky.app/profile/edzitron.com https://www.threads.net/@edzitron See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 2:22Ed Zitron?

  The future is bulletproof, the aftermath is secondary. Welcome to Better Offline, I'm your host Ed Zitron.

• 2:38Ed Zitron?

  Today, we're joined in the beautiful Los Angeles, Nevada, and I'm joined by Andy Richter, the comedian. Andy, thank you so much for joining me.

• 2:45Speaker 06

  Thank you for being here. On the way to the studio, I got to see a man smoking crack. Which I haven't seen that in a long time.

• 2:54Ed Zitron?

  That's kind of, that's nostalgic.

• 2:55Speaker 06

  Sure, it is. People are still doing crack.

• 2:58Ed Zitron?

  People are still doing crack in this town.

• 2:59Speaker 06

  Good to know.

• 3:00Ed Zitron?

  That's what they're saying. So, Andy, you've been...

• 3:03Speaker 06

  So 90s.

• 3:05Ed Zitron?

  So 90s, I know. We're bringing the 90s back. I was listening to A System of a Down... Sorry, I've been down this rabbit hole, and this is a tech podcast, we'll talk about stuff eventually. I've been down this rabbit hole of listening to this band called O2 that does covers of bands in the style of other bands. And there was a System of a Down, in the style of System of a Down, cover of the Scatman song.

• 3:25Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 3:25Ed Zitron?

  It was truly amazing. They nailed both the Scatman rap and the System of a Down tongue. And the comments on these things are amazing, because it's like 50% people like me saying, "This is really great", and 50% people being like, "No, it's not", anything like the fucking Scatman.

• 3:39Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:39Ed Zitron?

  The Scatman fans are all out there. Anyway, you've been fairly online for a while. I've noticed you on social media. When did you first get online?

• 3:48Speaker 06

  Well, first online, like on the internet, would have been in the early 90s, when I started working on Late Night with Conan O'Brien. That was when, sort of, you know, there was AOL.

• 4:03Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 4:04Speaker 06

  And, in fact, yeah, I was, the first time online, it was AOL. You know, I've got one of those discs in the mail, or, you know, out of a magazine, or whatever. And it was dial-up, and I had these clunky old Mac PowerBooks. And it worked, there was the internet, and... It, cause at first the internet, I was like, wait, is it just like catalogs?

• 4:31Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 4:31Speaker 06

  You know, it was like, like Pepsi would have a website and it'd be like, well, I kinda know what Pepsi is.

• 4:37Ed Zitron?

  And there was that initial period when, I remember when I got online when I was like ten.

• 4:41Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 4:41Ed Zitron?

  Just like looking up companies.

• 4:42Speaker 06

  Right, yeah, exactly.

• 4:44Ed Zitron?

  But everything you spr- you went to, because it was dial-up, was very much a commitment.

• 4:47Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 4:48Ed Zitron?

  You had to be so sure.

• 4:49Speaker 06

  Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. And, and to go from one thing to the other took so long.

• 4:53Ed Zitron?

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:54Speaker 06

  Um, but then email was pretty fun. Um, Facebook was fun for five seconds, uh, and then I immediately got off of there.

• 5:02Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 5:03Speaker 06

  Um, and, and, and of course then, you know, like, at the Conan show, it was, you know, everybody was experiencing this new thing altogether.

• 5:14Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 5:15Speaker 06

  And as usual, with every new technology, the, one of the first primary uses is pornography.

• 5:22Ed Zitron?

  Of course.

• 5:23Speaker 06

  So there was, you know, plenty of, and it, because it's a comedy show, it wasn't just like people fucking, it was like people filling up plastic pants with diarrhea.

• 5:32Ed Zitron?

  Okay.

• 5:33Speaker 06

  You know, stuff like that. And then that's what we'd be swapping around the, the, the office, yeah.

• 5:38Ed Zitron?

  Wait, so you were on dial-up doing this?

• 5:40Speaker 06

  Yes. Well, well, we were at work doing that.

• 5:43Ed Zitron?

  Uh.

• 5:43Speaker 06

  So I don't know what, I don't know what our internet connection was at work.

• 5:47Ed Zitron?

  So it was like the late nights T1 connection?

• 5:49Speaker 06

  Something like that.

• 5:50Ed Zitron?

  Bring up the clown pornography.

• 5:51Speaker 06

  It was better than, than home, but it, I, I, like, I don't think I had to log on with the work computer, you know?

• 6:00Ed Zitron?

  So you were just looking up various kinds of pornos and would people send?

• 6:04Speaker 06

  Everybody was. I just remember there being-

• 6:06Ed Zitron?

  People crowd around?

• 6:07Speaker 06

  I don't, and I'm, I don't remember exactly how we would find them. And, but I just, there'd be like files of, oh, three hundred, you know, weird sex photos, you know?

• 6:20Ed Zitron?

  Sex photos. Of course, it would have been JPGs back then.

• 6:22Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 6:23Ed Zitron?

  You wouldn't have the speed to get it over.

• 6:25Speaker 06

  I don't, I don't know, you know?

• 6:26Ed Zitron?

  Well, just, were people crowding around one screen or was it just a, and like an FTP server?

• 6:31Speaker 06

  There was some crowding around one screen. Like, there was one guy in the office. Um, who would, hi- his, his desk faced the door, so he, you'd see the back of his computer screen. And he would, he would, I fell for it like three times, like, hey, come here, I wanna show you something. And you come around, and it's just the most horrific.

• 6:51Ed Zitron?

  Right, yeah.

• 6:52Speaker 06

  The most, like, not at all sexual sex thing. And I, so after a while, he'd say like, hey, come here, and I'd, fuck you, no, I'm not, I'm not falling for that again.

• 7:02Ed Zitron?

  So I am cursed with two brothers, and Matthew and William.

• 7:06Speaker 06

  Are they older, or?

• 7:08Ed Zitron?

  Oh, both older, my sister Anna, older as well. Uh, Matthew is a grotesque fellow, and has shown me terrible things, so I've become kind of desensitized to the whole thing. And I remember the fir-, one of the first days, working at a PR firm, I got to, all the guys like, hey Ed, come check this, you, you should come check, type this into you, and it was Meat Spin, do not look this up.

• 7:25Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 7:26Ed Zitron?

  But I remember them going, being like, check out Meat Spin, and it is a man's willy going in a circle.

• 7:31Speaker 06

  Sure.

• 7:32Ed Zitron?

  I sat there in complete silence for several minutes. My fingers just steepled, and could see out the corner of my eye, the deep discomfort.

• 7:39Speaker 06

  Right, right.

• 7:40Ed Zitron?

  Because.

• 7:41Speaker 06

  That you were soaking it in.

• 7:42Ed Zitron?

  No, just, just like Gendo Ikari from Evangelion, just sitting there, just like, staring at it. And I, and after that, I never got sent anything gross again.

• 7:51Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 7:52Ed Zitron?

  They wouldn't send me anything, because they knew that just, also, I think they kind of knew that I might retaliate one day.

• 7:57Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 7:58Ed Zitron?

  And, I really, this entire episode doesn't have to be about gross stuff, but I come from a darker place of the internet. Like, I was, I was on like, early forums, and like bulletin boards, and Newsnet, they're not the worst part of news.

• 8:10Speaker 06

  Buying and selling your foreign babies, things like that.

• 8:13Ed Zitron?

  No, I was like 12, and, and so the people were doing that around me. And so, that was fun, but I also got to see so many horrible things.

• 8:21Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 8:22Ed Zitron?

  And, like, there's Pain 4, any listeners who remember Pain 4, do not look up any of the things we're talking about. It is funny though, because that used to be a lot of the early internet, was just like, hey, I found something gross, look at this shit.

• 8:33Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 8:34Ed Zitron?

  And that's gone now, because there's now entire reddits for it.

• 8:37Speaker 06

  Yes, yes, and, and I don't, yeah, and also, it's just like... The novelty, sort of.

• 8:43Ed Zitron?

  Yeah.

• 8:44Speaker 06

  You know, it's like.

• 8:45Ed Zitron?

  Too quick.

• 8:45Speaker 06

  Yeah, that was like, oh, that was, because it's like, oh, can you get like, the worst kind of, uh, you know, the worst kind of pornography? Oh, yeah, you can. And then, you know, it's like, okay, that.

• 8:57Ed Zitron?

  Now you can get it immediately.

• 8:58Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, it's not my, and because if it's not your thing, which is like, not my, you know, like, my pornography, I like it. Like I said, like, if there was a search on, on a porn website for people being nice to each other.

• 9:12Ed Zitron?

  Yeah.

• 9:12Speaker 06

  Like, that would be my, I'm very boring.

• 9:16Ed Zitron?

  For me, it's a man and a woman, they walk into a room, they shake hands, and they sit in complete silence for an hour. Rock hard every time.

• 9:22Speaker 06

  And then they start fucking.

• 9:24Ed Zitron?

  Uh, yeah, but the video ends before that.

• 9:26Speaker 06

  Oh, okay, okay.

• 9:27Ed Zitron?

  I'm not interested. The implication's enough for me.

• 9:30Speaker 06

  Right.

• 9:30Ed Zitron?

  But I think, and I will say, there's nothing wrong with having your particular proclivities. Yes. Sex positive show and all that, but nevertheless, it is funny watching the internet move away from pornography and towards being insane now.

• 9:43Speaker 06

  Yes, yes, exactly.

• 9:45Ed Zitron?

  We just had Gita Jackson and Nathan Grayson from Aftermath, a gaming website, on. And he's just talking about how games used to be like, when I started on the internet, it was like, oh, you could look at like, forums, video games, and we'd all talk about which characters would all be cool. Now it's like, oh, you don't like Cloud Strife from Final Fantasy VII? I will kill you.

• 10:01Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 10:01Ed Zitron?

  I will snipe you.

• 10:03Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:03Ed Zitron?

  Do you get involved in any internet communities? I know you're quite active in Instagram.

• 10:07Speaker 06

  Yeah, I, well, Twitter was my main one. Uh, when, you know, which Twitter, Twitter was a new, like, the, a real step of being online.

• 10:17Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 10:18Speaker 06

  Uh, for me. And I got on Twitter, you know, this was, social media was a new thing, you know, a couple of years old. And like I say, I got on Facebook for a minute, and then I just was like, eh, there's too many people going. You know, it was, it just felt like having an open door in your house that just people could come and go, hey, wanna talk? And like, no, I do not want to talk to you.

• 10:43Ed Zitron?

  Hey, I had a sandwich, what are you fucking?

• 10:45Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:46Ed Zitron?

  Actually, that is how Twitter is now. Anyway, continue.

• 10:47Speaker 06

  But so, uh, I actually, uh, it was, it was right before I went back to work for Conan on The Tonight Show, I believe. I think the time, because it was like 2010? Yeah.

• 11:01Ed Zitron?

  Twitter would have been, that would.

• 11:02Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, I can't, I can't remember.

• 11:05Ed Zitron?

  That would make sense though, because that was a few years into Twitter when it had become more than just digital pervert.

• 11:10Speaker 06

  Yes, yes. And, and I had friends, um, like, uh, my friend Steve Agee, comedian Steve Agee, actor. Um, he told me, oh, Twitter's really fun. Like, it's like, it's like jokes. And I was like, oh, okay, cuz, you know, and, and I had already quit Facebook. I was playing in, uh, the, um, Major League Baseball All-Star Game was down in Anaheim.

• 11:38Ed Zitron?

  Cool.

• 11:39Speaker 06

  And I played, and I did this a couple of times. I played in the celebrities and old time baseball guys charity softball event.

• 11:48Ed Zitron?

  Very cool.

• 11:48Speaker 06

  It's like a couple of days before the actual, uh, All-Star Game. So I was going down there and the production coordinator for Conan called me and said, hey, we got an offer. They know you're playing there. Um, if you would get on Twitter and tweet about what, you know, about the game, you might get a new iPhone. And I was like, oh, all right, sure, no problem. So I, in the car on the drive to Anaheim, I signed up for Twitter and that was, and then it was like, I very quickly did see like, and as I've referred to it, for me in those early days, it was like the joke gym.

• 12:23Ed Zitron?

  Yeah.

• 12:24Speaker 06

  It was like where we all went to be funny, you know?

• 12:28Ed Zitron?

  Run material.

• 12:29Speaker 06

  Yeah, just think up silly stuff. And it wasn't, and I never, and it's, I think the reason I liked it so much is that I wasn't, I, it was just for pure enjoyment.

• 12:39Ed Zitron?

  Yeah.

• 12:40Speaker 06

  You know, I, I mean, I think, you know, I'm seeing funny, smart ass shit all the time.

• 12:46Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 12:47Speaker 06

  And, and so, you know, something funny will occur to me. I don't have an act. I, you know, I mean,

• 12:52Ed Zitron?

  And there's no pressure to get one.

• 12:54Speaker 06

  You know, and it's like, if I see something funny on the street, I'm not gonna like, take it to the TV show and say, here's this funny, you know, Chinatown sign I saw. Uh, you know, so I just would do it for fun and it was, and it was fun. And it was also just fun to give away happiness and funniness. And I, and I started to meet like comedians who are like, why are you on there? Like, why would you waste your material?

• 13:18Ed Zitron?

  That's so funny.

• 13:19Speaker 06

  Oh, my God, waste? What are you talking about? It's, you know, I, there, there was very little. Sort of professional urge or, you know, motive behind anything I did on Twitter. I mean, I would promo things when I had things to promo. But it was mostly just fun. And I met people, you know, people who are now my I R L friends, you know, like, and, you know.

• 13:43Ed Zitron?

  Same here.

• 13:44Speaker 06

  Yeah. And it was certainly in those early days, it was what was great about it, just in comedy terms. And I, and it probably holds in poetry terms and in, you know, technical writing terms. There's no gatekeeper.

• 13:58Ed Zitron?

  Yeah.

• 13:58Speaker 06

  So that, which is why there were so many women that, that, you know, funny comedy women that came up and got their start with Twitter.

• 14:07Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 14:08Speaker 06

  Because they, you know, there, there were gatekeepers that kept women from being funny in front of people.

• 14:15Ed Zitron?

  And I think the, and Twitter is the other problem of woman, female comedians being like corrected for their jokes. And you see, you still see that on Blue Sky. And it was kind of a more democratic force, I think, for any kind of joke telling. The thing that, the only thing that really bothered me with it was this, you ever see Favstar?

• 14:32Speaker 06

  Yes, yes. So there was, I, I mean, I don't even, does it still exist?

• 14:36Ed Zitron?

  Uh, I, it doesn't, but the, the soul lives on.

• 14:39Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 14:40Ed Zitron?

  Soul Calibur. And it's, what it was, explain for the listeners. So there was this thing called Favstar and around it, this growing clique of deeply unfunny people that would all repost each other's shit. And it created this kind of noxious version of what you're talking about, where what you're talking about is like, I, as a funny person, I've, I found a thing that made me laugh, I posted it. These people, you see them on Blue Sky now and you can tell they're on Blue Sky because they have a list in their profile. Auto block. If I see someone with a list of their posts and they're Blue Sky, I block them. I'm a very petty person.

• 15:09Speaker 06

  Wait, what do you, I don't understand what you mean.

• 15:11Ed Zitron?

  So what it is, is that you can, you can do a search on Blue Sky and you could do this on Twitter where it's just your posts.

• 15:16Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 15:16Ed Zitron?

  With no replies.

• 15:17Speaker 06

  Oh, I see.

• 15:18Ed Zitron?

  And what they're doing is like, oh, my funniest bits. It's like, if you have to do a list of your funniest posts, they're not funny.

• 15:22Speaker 06

  Right, exactly.

• 15:23Ed Zitron?

  And it is interesting and very, actually heartening to hear that there is also the honest comedy side.

• 15:28Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 15:28Ed Zitron?

  On Twitter.

• 15:29Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 15:29Ed Zitron?

  Do you think it's going off to Blue Sky at all? Or is it different?

• 15:32Speaker 06

  Yes. I mean, and that's why I mostly do Blue Sky now is because it feels the most like.

• 15:37Ed Zitron?

  Yeah.

• 15:38Speaker 06

  Like the joke gym, you know, whereas, and I'll look sometimes at threads, which has a, I mean, and I'm not very technical, so I don't understand, I don't understand, like. You know, like I likened it once, I actually was on a conference call once with just like kind of different people uh that like from somebody that I'd done political organizing with was also doing sort of like

• 16:01Ed Zitron?

  Social media.

• 16:02Speaker 06

  Social media, like how do we make social media work for us? And there was this big call about, you know, different formats and what's next now that Twitter sucks? And, and I just said like, I'm, I feel like I'm with auto executives and I just wanna drive the thing. Like I don't, I don't care about how it works or the different sort of programming behind. I just wanted, I wanna, I want a particular experience. I wanna point it in a direction and go in that direction. And so I don't know what Threads is, but I just know that like, the way that it shows me shit is out of order and, you know, and just irritating and lots of, let me tell you a four-part story about this old man that, you know, gave me advice.

• 16:47Ed Zitron?

  And it changed my life.

• 16:48Speaker 06

  Yeah, and it's just sort of, okay, that's nice and all, but you know, where's the jokes? Where's the weirdos?

• 16:54Ed Zitron?

  I, exactly. And where's the chaos?

• 16:56Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 16:57Ed Zitron?

  I described it as it reminds me specifically of a mall in Dallas called the Galleria Mall in Dallas, like a luxury mall.

• 17:05Speaker 06

  It's Galleria.

• 17:05Ed Zitron?

  Galleria, pardon me.

• 17:06Speaker 06

  Yeah, that's right. I just, I don't, and I'm not being a wise ass, I just, you know.

• 17:10Ed Zitron?

  Oh, no, no, it's, we gotta get it right.

• 17:12Speaker 06

  I would wanna know if I was.

• 17:13Ed Zitron?

  That's also a Threads asked reply. Uh, but it's very luxurious, it's really nice, there's tons of stuff there, no reason to be there. You just go there and you feel your soul wilt.

• 17:23Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 17:24Ed Zitron?

  Threads is just weird. I went on there earlier and there was just a post where a guy said, yeah, I had a conversation with a guy, and it was just a completely made up conversation with a person about using Mac products. And there were like 11 replies of people like, yeah, and it's like, uh, did, did you all just get in the same car crash?

• 17:43Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 17:44Ed Zitron?

  And it's bizarre. And I think what it is, is tech companies don't seem to understand how human beings interact.

• 17:51Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 17:52Ed Zitron?

  And the more that they wield that power to that conference call you're on, the moment you try and systematize this stuff, the joy exits immediately.

• 17:58Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 17:59Ed Zitron?

  So have you, have you felt like social media changed how you do comedy though?

• 18:05Speaker 06

  Hmm.

• 18:07Ed Zitron?

  Like the feedback loop even?

• 18:10Speaker 06

  Well, I mean, I shouldn't even have paused because, yes, for sure, a big reason, a big thing, a big effect was, um, learning what's not funny anymore. You know, and you might call it wokeness, or, you know.

• 18:26Ed Zitron?

  How do you mean?

• 18:27Speaker 06

  I mean, like, learning things, uh, the one that I've always, that I, i- i- is just the mo- one of the most forefront ones, is the M-word for little people.

• 18:39Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 18:40Speaker 06

  And that used to be, like, you know, comedy MSG.

• 18:45Ed Zitron?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 18:46Speaker 06

  If there was a gap, just throw in the M, you know.

• 18:48Ed Zitron?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:49Speaker 06

  You know, like, or tossing in, you know, somebody, you know. And, and that, like I say, and I, I think, when, when the Conan show started, I think we used that word. And then, and I don't know, uh, you know, with words, that you don't, you know, you don't know what words are hurtful.

• 19:08Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 19:09Speaker 06

  I mean, some of them are quite obvious.

• 19:10Ed Zitron?

  Yeah, you know the ones where, yeah.

• 19:11Speaker 06

  Yeah, but then there are some that's like, oh, that's hurtful to somebody. Okay.

• 19:16Ed Zitron?

  Yeah.

• 19:16Speaker 06

  I, I can, you know, work around that. I don't, I don't.

• 19:19Ed Zitron?

  If, if anything, that's a challenge.

• 19:21Speaker 06

  Yeah, exactly. And there were other, and there were just other things, too. There were, there's some that, like, that where it gets to be a verbiage thing, or there's just scolds that wanna scold you for, and, you know, and also comedy, sometimes comedy is really messy and dark and sort of, like, wait, you know, it's sort of like, you're hinting at violence, like, yeah, that's a joke. You know what I mean? It's just made up. And I have learned, also, too, not just from a sense of, you know, sort of, uh, gracious goodness, wanting to not hurt people's feelings, there's also like, oh, I could say that, but then a bunch of fucking people will go crazy and I don't need that shit.

• 20:02Ed Zitron?

  Yeah.

• 20:03Speaker 06

  You know? I don't need people wasting my time with scolding me because... Uh, you know.

• 20:07Ed Zitron?

  And I think that there is this vast division. I know where you land on that. There's the division between what you're talking about, which is like, yeah, there's things that I like. Social media is kind of a good barometer for societal acceptance.

• 20:18Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:19Ed Zitron?

  Uh, we look at society right now and perhaps more things are up for question than I like. But then there's, I feel like a, with Blue Sky especially, there is a sensitivity on certain subjects writ large and Blue Sky kind of, you can get enveloped if you say the wrong thing.

• 20:35Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 20:35Ed Zitron?

  Or even something that's inspired. And to be clear, I am not, this is not some oblique way in which I'm saying I was racist the other day and people got mad.

• 20:42Speaker 06

  Right.

• 20:43Ed Zitron?

  That's not what I'm talking about.

• 20:44Speaker 06

  Right.

• 20:44Ed Zitron?

  Even like, there's a guy called Mike Masnick, who is on the board of Blue Sky and he does tech dirt, great guy. He posted about using AI the other day and people went completely fucking nuts on him, just reading stuff he didn't say. And I do think that that is a problem and gets into comedy where people just don't want certain subjects to be up for discussion. And I think some of the most interesting stuff in comedy can come from the more challenging stuff. Again, not talking about race, not talking about sexism. This is not an, this is not an approval of that.

• 21:13Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:14Ed Zitron?

  And I'm just thinking of, um, dear friend Chloe Radcliffe, great, great comedian. She has this show called Cheat, which is about her propensity in the past to cheat. It's a dark show, very funny. I think that comedy can go in some incredible directions and the internet and just digital production can actually take it in so many different directions. And my problem really is, is that social media is right now elevating some of the shittiest comedy I've ever seen, some great comedy, but just some of the most just base level, just oh, slop, because, and it's not even people being safe. It, more often than not, it's people being deeply rude. Center right going like, oh, you can't say this anymore.

• 21:54Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:54Ed Zitron?

  Proceeding to say a slur. And it's, it's frustrating because. There are more comedians than ever and more doing really interesting shit and I feel like they get drowned out sometimes.

• 22:04Speaker 06

  Well, yes, they do. And I mean, a big reason for that is there was a calculated drive to, and I mean, I just, I know this from my producer on my podcast telling me that there's actual data about these sort of like bro-y stand-up, kind of run-of-the-mill bro-y stand-up podcasts that is just, you know, like, I mean, and I can't, I'm not saying, because it's like there's a revolving door in my world of, like, I go on their podcast and they come on my podcast. Excuse me. And there's a, there's the bro-y comedy version of that where it's like, oh,

• 22:44Speaker 06

  they're always just kind of in a circular thing. And the amount of political content has gone through the roof on those because they were all sent talking points. And they all would have the same talking points, like, you know, Kamala Harris can't lead a wartime nation and-

• 23:05Ed Zitron?

  So kind of like an, almost like a propaganda poisoning-

• 23:07Speaker 06

  Absolutely. In the same way, and it's somehow in the same way, I don't, because I've always been amazed, and, you know, on Blue Sky you don't see it as much, but like the right-wing trolls, like, they get marching orders because they all start saying the exact same thing at the exact same time. And I'm like, are they on like a facts list? Like, how, where do these come from? Is it Fox News? Where are they hearing this shit? You know?

• 23:33Ed Zitron?

  It's when you believe in nothing, you just go, you all couldn't just agree to the same thing at the same time. You can be like, we're mad at bathrooms, I guess.

• 23:40Speaker 06

  Right, right. Well, and also too, it's like, I, I, you know, I, I believe, you know, people say it's a cult and stuff, and like, yeah, all right. I mean, if that's what you want to call it. I mean, nobody's living in a compound and shaving their heads, you know. They're, you know, it's if it's a cult, it's a it's a very loose and free cult. It's wandering around free form. But it is kind of a thing like, no, I've decided that this is where I'm at. So this is, this is like, there's a very particular kind of person that's a right wing troll that just, like, there's just a different sort of character choices that sort of boil it down to its essence. And for me, it's things like, I don't follow the rules. I make the rules.

• 24:22Ed Zitron?

  Yeah.

• 24:23Speaker 06

  You know, and that's like, so then Donald Trump is like, oh my, he's the nuplu ultra of, of I don't, you know, the rules aren't for me. I make the rules. And that's so it's like, if you say, well, wait, that's racist. They're like, no, it isn't. Uh, you know, or that's

• 24:38Ed Zitron?

  I'm just the one brave enough to say it.

• 24:40Speaker 06

  Or tariffs are terrible. They are not, you know, and it's just, they don't, it's like the actual, and it's why you can't win. It's why it's, you know, you just tread water until you drown because they don't, you know, the facts and figures and things and the data don't matter. It's just, I'm always going to be entrenched on my side until their grandmother stops, stops getting their checks and that's around the corner.

• 25:05Ed Zitron?

  Yes.

• 25:05Speaker 06

  And until, you know,

• 25:07Ed Zitron?

  The government just ceases to

• 25:08Speaker 06

  Right, right. And they don't, and they don't get their tax returns, you know, because the mail's broken and the IRS is broken. Or their social security payments stop because it's all fucked up.

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• 28:46Ed Zitron?

  So it's a fun story for you. So twice on the show, I've talked about just another instruction for any anti-trans people listening. Just another update on my instructions. You should be in the garage. The door should be closed. The car may not be started yet. Rev that engine, baby. Rev the engine. Now, if you're not getting sleepy, get the tube, go to the exhaust, and then put that bad boy in the window. That's the sleepy juice. You need more of that. Now, I got several emails from people saying, "You can't say that. You can't suggest anti-trans people kill themselves." And the answer is, "Watch me."

• 29:17Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 29:18Ed Zitron?

  And I think, I think the whole fucking, "Who's the Joe Rogan of the left" thing doesn't make sense. And I think if you break it down into what it is, it's everything you're talking about, which is, there is no, like, insane propaganda unity

• 29:29Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 29:30Ed Zitron?

  across the left and also the left. I fucking hate the term as well, because it's like, the left, depending on who you talk to, it refers to like CBS News.

• 29:39Speaker 06

  Or Marxists.

• 29:40Ed Zitron?

  Or Marxists. It's a complete milieu of different things. But ultimately, it's because people actually have beliefs that they stick to, and those can change within distinct groups versus the right wing.

• 29:50Speaker 06

  Yeah. And they also, too, don't walk in lockstep on every single issue.

• 29:55Ed Zitron?

  Yes.

• 29:56Speaker 06

  You know, people have, like, you know, you can think that socialized medicine is a wonderful thing, but you also are, you know, because you're Catholic, or for whatever reason, you know, you're, you know, anti-abortion. And that, you know, so there's like, there's too many varying issues within the liberal, whatever you want to call it, the not-right world.

• 30:21Speaker 06

  That it's never, you don't get lockstep.

• 30:23Ed Zitron?

  Which is, why don't you?

• 30:24Speaker 06

  You know, which is, which is inconvenient.

• 30:26Ed Zitron?

  And also, the right, the right wing are really on lockstep with what they hate.

• 30:29Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 30:30Ed Zitron?

  And that's, the thing is, you can hate them, like, I, I just feel like there is a certain degree of meekness with it. And also, when Pod Save America is the, one of the largest, that's also never a great start. Also, another really simple thing is, and you, I think it's been into this as well, and others have as well, where it's like, there's also not multi-billionaires backing every single leftist podcast.

• 30:50Speaker 06

  Right, right.

• 30:50Ed Zitron?

  Which would be really funny.

• 30:51Speaker 06

  That would be awesome. It would be really funny.

• 30:53Ed Zitron?

  If there was just like billions of dollars going into guys just doing like, eighteen hour seasons of podcasts about why Medicare for All is necessary.

• 31:01Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:02Ed Zitron?

  Sadly, we don't have that kind of unity in any way. And it sucks, and it sucks as well, because I think that there is this, and getting back to comedy as well, there's this assumption with comedy as well. It's like, it has to be rude to be funny.

• 31:14Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 31:14Ed Zitron?

  It could, it can be tragic. There can be.

• 31:16Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:17Ed Zitron?

  There were, and one of my favorite thing, one of my favorite things that made me laugh, and I'm not laughing at the event. You're gonna know where I'm going with this in a second. A guy did a wonderful stand-up thing, not funny, describing like post nine eleven, how he, his Muslim was horribly mistreated, and he was, I'm gonna look this up and get the link, and he's like, talking about how people hated him, hated other people of color, anyone who was brown was, was treated horribly, and how it really pushed him towards his faith and unity in his community. And he stops at the end of about a minute and a half, he goes, "Did nine eleven work?" And it's just like, fucking amazing. Just like, perfectly done.

• 31:52Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 31:52Ed Zitron?

  Because someone could scold him if he was not describing his actual experience.

• 31:56Speaker 06

  Right.

• 31:57Ed Zitron?

  And it's just, I feel like the future of comedy is going to be so fucking weird, because both the subject matter and the speed at which things work and happen is so different to how it used to be used to. Actually, here's a question. How did you prepare for the show? Just a very basic, like, for, for the show, how much work did you have to do?

• 32:17Speaker 06

  Oh, like, day to day?

• 32:18Ed Zitron?

  Day to day.

• 32:19Speaker 06

  Um, well, I would, would, earlier on, uh, you know, like, back in the late night days, um, I was a writer on the show and was expected to do. For the first few years, as much as any other writer, like, you know, there were, we had a board that had five, you know, five columns, which were the days, and then act one, act two, act three, act four, act five, act six. And you had to fill them, and you know, some of them were filled with guests, or a guest band and stuff. But you had to fill those spots with bits that you came up. So they'd put a card in there that would be like, you know, whatever, you know, Zoo Detective.

• 32:56Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 32:56Speaker 06

  And it would be up there with your initials, you know, down on the corner. So I was expected to do that. And then there were also like, just different bits that kind of were handed to me that, uh, that I, that we, they'd come up with a new one, and they'd be like, here, you write this because you're good at writing this particular kind of thing. Um, and then there was also too, uh, I started, I was the first one to do remotes because Robert Smigel, who was running the show, um, didn't want to send Conan out on remotes because that was very much a David Letterman thing. Like, the host going out and being the host out in the world, whereas I was kind of going out and being this nape, you know, this kind of, you know, boy, man-boy out in the world.

• 33:38Speaker 06

  And so I was doing remotes, and I would have to edit those. You know, I'd come back from the Arkansas State Fair and, you know, get off the, you know, go to bed and then go into the work the next day and start cutting that piece and working sometimes till, you know, three, four o'clock in the morning, um, getting that ready.

• 33:58Ed Zitron?

  Was this physical media, or was this?

• 34:00Speaker 06

  It was video.

• 34:01Ed Zitron?

  Okay.

• 34:01Speaker 06

  Yeah, it was, it was video, it was all on, um, big three-quarter inch tapes.

• 34:06Ed Zitron?

  That was kind of what?

• 34:07Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 34:07Ed Zitron?

  So that's, because that's-

• 34:08Speaker 06

  It was not digital back in those days, in the nineties.

• 34:11Ed Zitron?

  Because that's the thing, the speed of iteration there and the speed of things happening, like, it sounds like several days, if not more.

• 34:17Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 34:18Ed Zitron?

  What's fascinated me, and have you ever seen Josh Johnson? Incredible stand-up comedian, so-

• 34:22Speaker 06

  The name's familiar, maybe. Lots of Js in comedy, though.

• 34:26Ed Zitron?

  He is, uh, he's on The Daily Show, he's fantastic.

• 34:28Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 34:28Ed Zitron?

  African-American guy, he's, one of the funniest guys, has this amazing kind of like slow draw to everything he does. But I think he might be the future of comedy for one reason. He's, I can write really, I've never seen anyone who writes that fast other than me, and I write newsletters and they swear and all. He will have a new bit about something that just happened immediately.

• 34:47Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 34:47Ed Zitron?

  He will have like a- Ten minutes of fucking material.

• 34:50Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 34:51Ed Zitron?

  And it will be about Elon Musk or something. He did. He had this amazing thing about, oh, damn it. There was a lawsuit with a rapper and I can't remember the name now with just this insane long thing where like a lawyer nearly got censured or like sanctioned, I mean, by the judge because he would not reveal something that he shouldn't by law. Nevertheless, it's insane watching these comedians have to go from this thing where they, I don't know, I'm not a stand-up, I know a few of them, who would go up and prepare material and they'd workshop it in, in open mic nights and they'd try it and then they have a real show where they do it. Now it's just, you have to just fucking burn material all the time. You have to keep it relevant.

• 35:26Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:26Ed Zitron?

  And it almost feels like it's gonna breed in a different kind of comedian, one that can respond just way faster.

• 35:33Speaker 06

  Well, yes, absolutely. And, and also too, there is, there is the real thing with comedians and I'm, I'm, you know, it's one of the reasons that I'm not a stand-up comedian and I'm glad I'm not a stand-up comedian, is that because you, you can't, they, well, there's this kind of part of me that's like, really can't you? Like if you tell a joke on, what I was gonna say is, if you say, if you're, there's a bit on Instagram, you, it can't go into your hour.

• 36:00Ed Zitron?

  Why not?

• 36:01Speaker 06

  Because, because that joke has already been heard and been seen.

• 36:04Ed Zitron?

  Is this like industry?

• 36:05Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's just sort of a, what, you know, what do they call it? A common, uh, wisdom or whatever you call it, conventional wisdom, that's the phrase I'm looking for. And, and I've always kind of been like, really? You know, and, and it's the same reason that they're so protective about people filming them while they're working on stuff, you know, like in a club, somebody releasing, because then the jokes will be out there, which it's kind of, I mean, there's a, ah, yes, I understand it, but on the other hand, I also think like, I mean, I'm just probably more casual with material and, and, you know, and because I'm come from more of an improv background and never had to like guard, uh, you know, like, uh,

• 36:47Ed Zitron?

  And constantly grind it out.

• 36:48Speaker 06

  Like guard my, you know, my, guard my words, my precious, precious words. Um, but they, so they can't do that. That's why you see so much crowd work. Cause crowd work is disposable. Like, and that's why, and you do find, like, there's some really fantastic crowd work comedians, you know, that, that you do see. Um, and, and they will also sort of, I mean, the best ones, the funniest ones, and this is the main point that I want to make about this whole thing. The best ones, the funniest ones, you'll see them doing crowd work, but you'll also see a little bit of their act. Like, they're not afraid to give you a little bit of their act.

• 37:25Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 37:25Speaker 06

  And the reason is, is because they're artists.

• 37:28Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 37:28Speaker 06

  And the difference between the people that are bitching about like, I can't say difficult things anymore, is because they don't know how to do it artfully. And the people that are good at it are artists and they do it artfully. And you can hear the most uncomfortable shit from an artist, because they will know how to tell you it in a way that resolves itself.

• 37:50Ed Zitron?

  And it's not inherently exploitative or mocking.

• 37:52Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 37:53Ed Zitron?

  Because that's the thing, with all of these comedians, like, oh, you can't say this anymore, then find something fucking else funny.

• 37:58Speaker 06

  Absolutely.

• 37:59Ed Zitron?

  Isn't this your goddamn job?

• 38:01Speaker 06

  The notion that you can't do comedy is just demonstrably false. There's comedy fucking everywhere. What are you talking about?

• 38:09Ed Zitron?

  And life is more absurd than it's ever been. I mean, doing this show, I'm not a comedian, I'm funny in the other way. I, it's, but even within the tech industry, it's just like, right now, and you're not a techie guy, you've got just like multiple, multi-billion dollar companies, trillion dollar companies, chasing AI in this direction where like, they all lose money and no one really wants it.

• 38:31Speaker 06

  Right, right.

• 38:32Ed Zitron?

  It's inherently fucking hilarious. It's also very grim to watch, but watching these kind of like damn little weirdos and freaks walk around and say stuff that no human being should believe about making calls. It is funny, and there's so much, I don't want to say joy because there's a lot of misery right now, but there's so much different thing, there's so many different things that you can make material from. I choose Josh Johnson because he's even moved into some tech stuff. Because guess what? Everything is approachable from a human position, even if you don't know it well. And it's just like, oh, if I can't be racist or sexist anymore, I'm out of things. What do you fucking do with your day, man?

• 39:05Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 39:06Ed Zitron?

  Do you just go around just like dropping slurs and insulting?

• 39:09Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 39:10Ed Zitron?

  I mean, now that I think about it, probably that's what those guys do.

• 39:13Speaker 06

  And it's also just like, it's... It it's people that wanna recycle old tropes, you know, like about fucking women. You know, or, you know, or in a these cross dressers or whatever, you know, like they just wanna, they're not coming up with anything new. They're just regurgitating this sort of zeitgeist that guys with backward baseball caps are gonna go woo at, you know?

• 39:40Ed Zitron?

  And it's inherently also kind of regressive, cuz it's not really, it, all it says about them is, man, you know what would be funny? If I said something hurtful, and I'm not meant to do this, which is what makes it funny. What was weird though is, you wanted, you wanted to have a really horrible experience, try watching Family Guy. It is insane that that show aired, just to any listeners, I don't really recommend watching it. But Family Guy was insanely sexist racist, like they say actual slurs on there, it's crazy what used to be. And I have to wonder if some of these right wing comedians, or even just kinda like people would, wouldn't say that that was their identity. I just like watching Family Guy and things like that, and being like, we used to be able to just do entire episodes about Peter Griffin being Mexican.

• 40:25Ed Zitron?

  And that is an actual episode of Family Guy, by the way, there is an entire plot where he's an illegal immigrant, it's fucking insane.

• 40:31Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:32Ed Zitron?

  It is insane what used to be considered funny and aired on TV.

• 40:36Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 40:36Ed Zitron?

  In fact, there is a show called Black White, have you heard of this? There was a show on Fox in like two thousand and five where a white family got blacked up. Like full blackface, it's insane, and then a black family got whited up, and it was called Black White.

• 40:53Ed Zitron?

  The world is insane, the world is actually insane, like when you look, like we have, it may not feel like we've come far, but we have.

• 40:59Speaker 06

  Yeah, on that SNL, the, that fiftieth thing, you know, they did sort of what I found to be a very interesting little segment. And also sort of, um, you know, sort of, they didn't have to like air their dirty laundry. But it was just a little montage of their incredibly past racist things against like Asian, Asians and, you know, Latinos and just really cra- and sexist stuff, you know?

• 41:27Ed Zitron?

  I get why they did that, but I personally wouldn't have, I would have, I would have probably not, not put that up.

• 41:33Speaker 06

  I, I mean, I, I liked it because I thought like Like I said, it seemed, it's like.

• 41:39Ed Zitron?

  It acknowledged the past.

• 41:40Speaker 06

  Yeah, it was like somebody saying, I used to make mistakes and I, and I learned from them and I don't do them anymore. Which I always.

• 41:48Ed Zitron?

  I can accept that.

• 41:49Speaker 06

  Yeah, I, I, and also too.

• 41:51Ed Zitron?

  Is that what they said, though?

• 41:53Speaker 06

  I think so.

• 41:54Ed Zitron?

  I hope so.

• 41:54Speaker 06

  I think that's what they meant.

• 41:55Ed Zitron?

  I haven't watched this in a while.

• 41:57Speaker 06

  I don't think they were saying like, we can't get away with this anymore.

• 41:59Ed Zitron?

  But even.

• 41:59Speaker 06

  Because it's so, these bits are so shitty.

• 42:02Ed Zitron?

  I think, I think more what I'm suggesting is, what frustrates me with things like that, and I have not watched it, so I'm sure someone will email me saying I'm wrong. It happens, even when I'm right. I, there, if it's just them showing it without making any commentary, that pisses me off because it's just like, oh, we shouldn't do this again.

• 42:18Speaker 06

  Well, they did preface it, it's like, can you believe we used to do this kind of stuff?

• 42:22Ed Zitron?

  That's kind of cool.

• 42:22Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 42:23Ed Zitron?

  I like that. So, somewhat subject change, so AI.

• 42:27Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 42:27Ed Zitron?

  Have you used any of this?

• 42:29Speaker 06

  I have not. I keep thinking like, oh, because I don't hear people, um, you know, there, because there are aspects to, say, ChatGPT that are interesting to me.

• 42:39Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 42:40Speaker 06

  Like, I have spaghetti, a green pepper, um, you know, tamarind sauce, what do I do with it? And it'll give you a recipe and, you know.

• 42:51Ed Zitron?

  Sure.

• 42:51Speaker 06

  Like, that's like, that's pretty neat, you know? And then, um, like I was just listening, I, I, I'm a Howard Stern listener.

• 42:59Ed Zitron?

  Ah.

• 43:00Speaker 06

  And he was messing around with it and he asked ChatGPT, because he's learning guitar. And he had some new guitar and it was, the strings were making his fingers black. So he asked Chat, ChatGPT, why is my new guitar making my fingers black? And ChatGPT says, there's a, you know, uh, an oil that's on there from the factory that's a protective oil to keep the strings from rusting. And so, you know, if you wipe it with a dry cloth, it should be good. And I thought, okay, that's pretty cool, you know, like, like to ask a question like that. I don't want it to write your fucking papers.

• 43:34Ed Zitron?

  That's the thing.

• 43:35Speaker 06

  I don't want it to, yeah, I don't want to watch a movie that just was made up out of a machine mind. Uh, and I don't, I just have to believe that.

• 43:46Speaker 06

  It it won't be like that like and if it if that is if it is like that it that is a long, long, long way away, you know?

• 43:56Ed Zitron?

  And that's the thing that I am very anti and as part of the show I have dug into OpenAI a great deal and

• 44:02Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 44:03Ed Zitron?

  Bad company and all that. I think what's funny about all of these descriptions is I try and ask people who are not super technical about this all the time.

• 44:09Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 44:09Ed Zitron?

  What do you use it for? And every single person describes Google Search if it worked.

• 44:13Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 44:14Ed Zitron?

  It's like, what if Google Search answered?

• 44:15Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

• 44:16Ed Zitron?

  What if there was a website where you could ask it something?

• 44:18Speaker 06

  Right, or if maybe if Siri wasn't stupid, you know?

• 44:22Ed Zitron?

  Yes.

• 44:22Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 44:22Ed Zitron?

  And what's funny is they've added that I have you you've got an iPhone.

• 44:26Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 44:27Ed Zitron?

  So you you've seen Apple Intelligence then?

• 44:29Speaker 06

  I I mean, yeah, I I have not.

• 44:31Ed Zitron?

  It's really bad.

• 44:31Speaker 06

  I have not attempted it because I've heard so much bad stuff.

• 44:34Ed Zitron?

  Oh, you've turned it off?

• 44:35Speaker 06

  I I don't know if I've turned it off or not, but it well, I do get a thing where it makes that sort of like purple glow around it.

• 44:41Ed Zitron?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 44:41Speaker 06

  Like wanting to do something AI and I just ignore it, you know?

• 44:45Ed Zitron?

  Well, that's the thing, though, it's when they

• 44:48Speaker 06

  And it's suggesting me texts.

• 44:49Ed Zitron?

  Which are not good responses.

• 44:51Speaker 06

  No, they're not. I've They're almost never.

• 44:52Ed Zitron?

  I had a friend telling me about a really bad relationship thing and it said, that's disappointing. It's like, I don't think that would have helped him.

• 45:02Speaker 06

  You fucked that up.

• 45:05Ed Zitron?

  You more?

• 45:06Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 45:07Ed Zitron?

  But and it's it does feel like they're just selling us back something that works because the Siri does not work better. It works worse now.

• 45:14Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 45:14Ed Zitron?

  I used to be able to I used

• 45:15Speaker 06

  I think so, too.

• 45:16Ed Zitron?

  My big thing I use this for with with Siri was just reminders and I use them constantly. It'll be like, I will think of something at eleven thirty PM and I'll mutter it and it'll work. Now it works like eighty percent of the time.

• 45:28Speaker 06

  Oh, really?

• 45:29Ed Zitron?

  It used to work ninety percent of the time. But everything we're describing has been here for ten years.

• 45:34Speaker 06

  Mm hmm.

• 45:35Ed Zitron?

  Other than maybe the no, no, the string thing, if you I'm sure if he Googled that it would have worked too.

• 45:42Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 45:42Ed Zitron?

  It's just it's very depressing because

• 45:45Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, absolutely. If you Googled black residue on guitar strings, it would come up.

• 45:50Ed Zitron?

  Yeah.

• 45:50Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 45:51Ed Zitron?

  And it's And the things I've found it useful for, and I, my listener's gonna beat my ass for this. I don't even use ChatGPT, cause fuck that shit. Uh, but large language models, when I've used them, have been like, break down this complex paragraph of financial crap. Explain it in plain English. I will then have to go and verify that independently.

• 46:09Speaker 06

  Right, of course, cause they're wrong a lot.

• 46:11Ed Zitron?

  This shit. But it's interesting how the lo- long and short of it is, is what if Google's search was slightly bad? What if Googles, what if we had a website for questions?

• 46:19Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 46:20Ed Zitron?

  And it, and it worked, and then Google's ideas, they just, they're doing AI overviews now, and they just added a new kind. And now Google's idea is, what if we worked, kind of? And it was way more expensive. Would you like that?

• 46:33Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 46:33Ed Zitron?

  Oh, you hate it.

• 46:34Speaker 06

  Right, right.

• 46:34Ed Zitron?

  We don't care.

• 46:35Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 46:36Ed Zitron?

  Profits up.

• 46:36Speaker 06

  Yeah, and what if it used all the energy on earth?

• 46:39Ed Zitron?

  Yes, what if it boiled small lakes and required us to steal from every person forever? It's just, see this, and that's the thing. It's frustrating to watch because this whole, the whole thing with the show, this doing this show has been like, what, hoping things would get better and watching them get worse, and putting aside Doge and all that crap happening in the real world.

• 47:00Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 47:01Ed Zitron?

  It doesn't feel like the tech is doing stuff to help us anymore. Like, it doesn't feel fu- do you, you're not a technical person, but you like gadgets, I assume, you still dick around with computers and such on some?

• 47:10Speaker 06

  A little bit, yeah, yeah. I mean, not so much as I used to, um.

• 47:14Ed Zitron?

  When did that stop?

• 47:15Speaker 06

  Um, just as I got older and, and I, and I, you know, and I, I got divorced and then got remarried and I have a five-year-old now. I have a twenty-four-year-old, a nineteen-year-old and a five-year-old.

• 47:26Ed Zitron?

  Nice.

• 47:27Speaker 06

  Five-year-old takes up a lot of time, you know? So, I mean, and, and also too, I'm fifty-eight now, and, and I, you know, it's like,

• 47:37Speaker 06

  nobody wants to watch my shows, you know, and my dad, my shows are very dad show, like,

• 47:41Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 47:42Speaker 06

  The spy, the CIA spy shit.

• 47:44Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 47:44Speaker 06

  Not Reacher, uh, Reacher is just basically about, like, I've heard it described as like, what if a guy was really big?

• 47:51Ed Zitron?

  What if a giant was Sherlock Holmes? But the new season, they have a bigger guy.

• 47:55Speaker 06

  I know.

• 47:56Ed Zitron?

  You've got a real big, big fellow.

• 47:58Speaker 06

  I saw that. But I mean, but I, I, you know, like, um. Uh, the agency and paradise and those kinda shows and then also two things like traders, but traders I'll watch with my wife, but she won't watch these other ones. They're too stressful. So, once everybody, everybody goes to bed, they go upstairs about like eight thirty, nine o'clock. I'm good for maybe an hour of watching something. So, I'm not gonna be on a, I'm not gonna be playing video games.

• 48:27Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 48:27Speaker 06

  Because A, I'm a little too old, and this isn't exactly right. I just didn't, I never got good at them.

• 48:36Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 48:36Speaker 06

  And, and so, and I don't know whether I just didn't have a facility for them. And, and I did have an experience because I was given, and I don't even remember. I think it was an early Xbox, possibly? Maybe a Playstation? And, uh, it was early in my time in New York City. Uh, like a couple of years after I'd been living there. And there was a game called Road Rash.

• 49:01Ed Zitron?

  Oh, yeah.

• 49:01Speaker 06

  Do you remember that?

• 49:02Ed Zitron?

  I remember, I remember the original, yeah.

• 49:04Speaker 06

  A motorcycle race where you could hit each, hit each other with stuff.

• 49:08Ed Zitron?

  Nice.

• 49:09Speaker 06

  And so, and this is, we're probably talking nineteen ninety-five, ninety-six.

• 49:12Ed Zitron?

  Oh, no, okay. So, that was the original.

• 49:14Speaker 06

  I'm talking the original one.

• 49:15Ed Zitron?

  So, that would've been like, uh, probably a Sega Genesis or a SNES.

• 49:18Speaker 06

  Maybe. I don't, I don't remember. Um, but it was something, it was swag.

• 49:22Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 49:23Speaker 06

  I don't think I've ever, and I don't mean to be a dick. It's just like, when you're on TV, people just give you free shit. And it was like, and when you're not on TV and when you really need free shit, nobody's there to give it to you.

• 49:33Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 49:34Speaker 06

  Um, but that's, you know. So, I, I had this, this game system, played Road Rash. And my sister-in-law, my ex-wife's younger sister was living with us at the time. And she and I would play Road Rash. And I would, I would think like, well, we've been playing for about an hour. And it would be five hours.

• 49:55Ed Zitron?

  Hell, yeah.

• 49:56Speaker 06

  Four or five hours.

• 49:57Ed Zitron?

  The magic of gaming.

• 49:57Speaker 06

  And, and I just was like, this is not good.

• 50:00Ed Zitron?

  Oh, so you felt you were getting addicted?

• 50:03Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah. This is just like that, that much loss of time for me. Cause I already, my, you know, one of my lifelong, uh, self. critiques is is you're not doing enough like why the fuck don't you do more you lazy fucker get off your ass and do something your life would be better if you had more initiative so to introduce a like just an amazing time suck yeah I I was like no no this I cannot do this so I mean and I you know and I you know I I haven't I I quit now but you know I throughout my life have smoked weed too and that was enough you know that was like enough it's like to me it felt like ah like weed crack that's what the like what gaming felt to me it's like this is

• 50:48Speaker 06

  because weed is such kind of like a little vacation from yourself at least that's what it was for me and and the game was just like this is a vacation this I don't I'm I don't exist and road rash absolutely ruled yeah yeah it was really fun because when you said PlayStation Xbox they did remake it at some point the gate you see you get given free shit I get given emails emails from people correcting me about when road rash came out no I love my list is I deeply love them

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• 52:27Ed Zitron?

  Actually, that's an interesting thing. It's a slightly different thing. So I was having a conversation with someone, Eric Silver, he's over at Multitude Productions. He used to be a client of mine, he's a production podcast student. He brought up a thing about podcasting, and I'm actually quite curious to run by you. How do you feel about, with podcasts especially? You seem like a more positive guy. It feels like there's this weird thing within podcasts of just hating the audience, like a derision for them?

• 52:49Speaker 06

  Is there?

• 52:50Ed Zitron?

  Yeah, okay, so maybe not.

• 52:52Speaker 06

  No, I mean, I am not a very good podcast consumer. And as I already mentioned, I listen to Howard Stern and that takes up a lot of my podcasts. And that's, you know, that's since the early 90s.

• 53:06Ed Zitron?

  Right, right.

• 53:06Speaker 06

  I've been listening to Howard Stern, so it's my ongoing soap opera comedy show, you know, peeping Tom, voyeuristic, look at all these weirdos. So it takes up a lot of my time. And so I don't listen to a lot of podcasts. And again, I think that's kind of like, I'm kind of older and I just, and it's, I will listen to some, like, you know, there's some that I do listen to occasionally and enjoy. But it's usually like, like I just recently was listening to, Jamie Loftus is doing something called The 16th Minute.

• 53:49Ed Zitron?

  We're on Cool Zone Media, she's a coworker.

• 53:52Speaker 06

  Oh wow, oh cool. And, you know, because it was just, well, she's really great.

• 53:57Ed Zitron?

  Yes.

• 53:57Speaker 06

  You know, and she's an incredibly talented person. And it is really interesting, like, it's an interesting topic. And it's, and almost all of them are of interest to me. Whereas there's lots of other podcasts where it's like, oh, that's, you know, sort of, like the old Hollywood kind of ones. There'll be one that I'm like, that is fascinating. And then another one, like, I don't give a shit about that one, you know, so it's, you know.

• 54:22Ed Zitron?

  And that does actually lead to somewhere far more interesting than my original question, which is, it feels like the format of podcasts has kind of, it's actually growing into something far more interesting. Because 16th Minute started a few months after Better Offline, I think. And what Jamie does for the listeners who haven't heard, and I assume I assume you have because she's advertised on here and so on and so forth. Is Jamie will find like an internet celebrity of the day like your dress or.

• 54:45Speaker 06

  Like like Ken Bone.

• 54:47Ed Zitron?

  Yes, she got Ken Bone on the show.

• 54:49Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 54:49Ed Zitron?

  And then she'll do kind of an episode, kind of like better offline listeners. When I get extremely pissed off at OpenAI, imagine if that was about something that mattered. Oh, was fun, neither of which. And it's it's interesting watching this format because it's changed comedy in the sense that now Instagram is basically you have to constantly hit them with the highlight reels. With podcasts, it's people feel trapped in these different formats that really do them a disadvantage because Jamie does great things. In her show, Molly Kong grew as well with weird little guys. Cool Zone has got this cool format of kind of just. Talking through a script and a story with a guest, sometimes not with a guest. But I almost feel like podcasting could return to something like Howard Stern. I think like having you in studio is so much better. And I think I'm.

• 55:32Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 55:33Ed Zitron?

  As a pro remote work guy, I feel bad saying this. It almost feels like we do need to get back to perhaps not exactly what Howard Stern does. Perhaps not exactly, but getting back to what made broadcast actually good, which is narrative style shows or. In studio fucking actual conversations that are well produced.

• 55:50Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 55:51Ed Zitron?

  That have guests that know and like each other and actually are ready to do an interesting show. It's the only reason Howard Stern's. He's actually a good broadcaster, however you feel about him.

• 56:00Speaker 06

  Oh, no, well.

• 56:03Speaker 06

  There's no question.

• 56:04Ed Zitron?

  Yeah.

• 56:05Speaker 06

  I mean, the proof is in the fact that he's.

• 56:08Ed Zitron?

  He's still here somehow.

• 56:09Speaker 06

  He is still the most, the biggest broadcaster there is really, you know?

• 56:13Ed Zitron?

  Yeah, the more things change, the more they stay the same.

• 56:15Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 56:16Ed Zitron?

  Do you? How are you finding podcasting though? Because how is it different to what you've been used to?

• 56:20Speaker 06

  Well. For me, uh, it's.

• 56:26Speaker 06

  And I don't, I don't mean to be like whiny uh about my career. Like I'm not acting enough, like I, you know, like.

• 56:33Ed Zitron?

  How do you mean?

• 56:34Speaker 06

  I'm not, there's just not a lot of work out there.

• 56:36Ed Zitron?

  Oh, right.

• 56:36Speaker 06

  You know, and when the, when the Conan show went off the air. Um, it, you know, I, there's things here and there, but there's just not enough.

• 56:46Ed Zitron?

  Not enough work.

• 56:47Speaker 06

  And, and especially, and again, I'm not like, I'm not complaining about like the state of woke Hollywood. I'm a 58 year old white man in comedy.

• 56:58Ed Zitron?

  There's a few of them.

• 56:59Speaker 06

  There's, yeah, there's a few of us, you know, so it's like, you just, you know, you're, I, I don't, I don't doubt that I am going to be working for the rest of, you know, until I wanna stop, basically. And, and I, and I do believe that like, I always believe that somebody hires me, there, that's a good thing. Like, I mean, for them, for them, yeah, for them, no, I mean, I, I will, I will give them value for whatever they're paying.

• 57:25Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 57:26Speaker 06

  Um, and, but I started doing podcasting sort of cuz, you know, like just cuz.

• 57:34Ed Zitron?

  Having material out there or?

• 57:35Speaker 06

  Well, just, you know, Conan, well, honestly, uh, the way that it happened, I had had people uh, on my team, um, which I love saying, uh, cuz my team, yeah, we're, it's quite a team. We haven't met in years, uh, but they still exist, I guess, but, uh, I had, I've had people say, you should do a podcast, you should do a podcast.

• 58:02Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 58:02Speaker 06

  And there is something to it because I, I am, when I think about, you know, the fact I am in comedy, that's my main thing.

• 58:11Ed Zitron?

  Hmm.

• 58:12Speaker 06

  And one of the ways that I am funny is in conversation.

• 58:15Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 58:16Speaker 06

  And that's hard to, you kinda saw it on Conan, but in just like sort of little pieces. But like in a longer conversation, I can be funny, you know, and I, and I, you know, know how to keep a conversation going. So they were telling me, you should, you should do a podcast. And I felt just sheepish about it because I have friends like Scott Aukerman, who does comedy Bang Bang, and Jimmy Pardo, who does Never Not Funny, and those guys are real, like I, I did their podcast and I was like, what is a podcast? When I was doing their podcast, they were, you know, very early. pioneers of whatever this thing is. So I felt like I would just be like the dilettantish

• 58:59Speaker 06

  fucking, you know, TV boy coming in with it, you know,

• 59:03Ed Zitron?

  fancy TV.

• 59:04Speaker 06

  Yeah, like built like I can do it too kind of thing. Um, so I just was kind of embarrassed to do it, but then, you know, it was.

• 59:13Ed Zitron?

  The first white boy to be embarrassed by podcasting.

• 59:16Speaker 06

  But I just thought there was a certain point where I thought, you know what? It would be good. And also too, it was like a point in my life when I just was trying to try. I just, I had a big moment where I was like, I need to say yes to things. I need to try things. And, and so I thought, yeah, let's do a podcast. And I came up with the concept for my, the three questions podcast. And, um, and I started to do it and I, I,

• 59:42Speaker 06

  you know, I listened to it and may, you know, sort of corrected and, and studied myself and thought about the things that I didn't like what I was, that I was doing and the things that I did like that I was doing. And eventually over the six years I've been doing it, I got better at it. And now I feel very

• 1:00:09Speaker 06

  confident in my ability to do an hour long interview that is very much listenable, funny, interesting, thought provoking sometimes even, and very much worth people's time.

• 1:00:25Ed Zitron?

  And, and it's not, it's not always comedy.

• 1:00:27Speaker 06

  It's not always comedy. Yeah, it's not always comedy. And there's part of me, and this is just because my old TV brain, there's part of me that's like, wow, I've gotten good at this one thing. I'm not going to be Charlie Rose. What the fuck is it? Like, you know, like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I know how to interview people.

• 1:00:44Ed Zitron?

  It's probably good you're not Charlie Rose.

• 1:00:45Speaker 06

  Yeah, well, no, I know. But I mean, but it's like, you know, I know how to interview people. And, but it's at the same time that like literally thousands of other people have learned how to interview people. Um, and I mean, I'm not, and I'm, it's, it's just like it's, it's not, and I don't mean to, I enjoy it. It's a fun thing, but I, if. If I got a busy, if I got busy acting, I would put podcasting aside. Just, and that's just the way it is, you know? I, I mean, and that's just my preferences, you know?

• 1:01:16Ed Zitron?

  That makes sense, and it's interesting though, because it's like you moved into this little broadcast career because there was space.

• 1:01:22Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:01:23Ed Zitron?

  And it's what, what the internet does allow you to do.

• 1:01:25Speaker 06

  And I'm doing a radio show now.

• 1:01:27Ed Zitron?

  Yeah, actually, I was gonna ask, the radio show, do you go into studio every time?

• 1:01:30Speaker 06

  I do, I do, and, and it was originally sort of like, the conception was, and also because doing something live in the serious studios is, it, it like technically, it's a much more complicated thing than just going in and recording something. So, when we, when we first came, well, they came to me and they were like, we want to do more, we want the Conan channel to have some actual sort of radio content.

• 1:01:57Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 1:01:57Speaker 06

  Rather than just be old clips of the show and podcasts.

• 1:02:00Ed Zitron?

  And radio content being like interviews and stuff?

• 1:02:02Speaker 06

  Like a call-in show.

• 1:02:03Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 1:02:03Speaker 06

  That was, they said, do you want to do a call-in show? And I was like, fuck yeah, that sounds fun, that sounds like, you know?

• 1:02:09Ed Zitron?

  Yeah, I want to.

• 1:02:09Speaker 06

  I get to play radio, you know?

• 1:02:11Ed Zitron?

  Sounds amazing.

• 1:02:12Speaker 06

  And, um, and then, so, they, they came to me and like, we want you to do something, and I was like, uh, and they said, you know, like, they were like, maybe more of the three questions, and I was like, I don't want to do more of that, you know? I do, like,

• 1:02:24Ed Zitron?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:24Speaker 06

  Once a week is plenty of that podcast.

• 1:02:26Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 1:02:26Speaker 06

  And, um, but then they said call-in show, I was like, oh, fuck yeah, absolutely. And I was like, and I would just have it be silly topics that like, you know, cocktail party conversations, you know, like,

• 1:02:39Ed Zitron?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:39Speaker 06

  We just recently did like, you know, when's the last time you shit your pants kind of stuff? And, or dating disasters.

• 1:02:46Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 1:02:46Speaker 06

  Or medical nightmares, and just, just, you know, meant to be sort of, and there's some, you know, there's some people like, why do you focus on all these, on all these dark things? It's like, I don't, because that's how I'm made, you know?

• 1:02:59Ed Zitron?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:59Speaker 06

  Yeah, and it's like, what do I want to talk about? You know, like, when's the last time you were inspired by someone's good deeds? Fuck that, I don't care about that, I want to hear you shit your pants.

• 1:03:09Ed Zitron?

  Or if it's like, Fun stories, like happy fun stories can be fun.

• 1:03:14Speaker 06

  You can laugh about, you know.

• 1:03:16Ed Zitron?

  But there's actually vanishingly few of them. Like, I've been working on an article for my newsletter at the moment, which people are gonna, really thrilling stuff about data sentence. You're gonna love this, Andy. No, but one of the most magical experiences I'm gonna tell is work. So one of my dear friends, Casey Kagawa, I'm actually seeing tonight for drinks. He, I finally got to realize where he comes from because he will get, go down these rabbit's holes with me. Rabbit's holes? Jesus Christ.

• 1:03:39Speaker 06

  Rabbit holes.

• 1:03:39Ed Zitron?

  Rabbit holes. There we go. Rabbit's holes. And he will go down these rabbit holes, except he's like, you should email my mother. And his mother's in some sort of finance. So I've now got both his mother and him sending me links about the same thing. See, that's a kind of lovely fun story that can be told.

• 1:03:55Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:03:55Ed Zitron?

  However, the funniest stories are things like me moving the arm on my tonal and smacking myself right in the nutsack.

• 1:04:01Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:04:02Ed Zitron?

  Going, ugh. See, that's funny. Or like when you shit your pants. How'd you don't know, like 20 years ago? Anyway, less about that, the better. But it's, something that strikes me of all of this that's really funny is despite all of the technology, despite the fact that everyone can podcast and broadcast all the same, what we are describing is basic broadcast fundamentals seem to actually be very fucking interesting. That's what people really come to. We want connection. We want to hear the absurdity of life.

• 1:04:28Speaker 06

  As the radio died, all of what the radio was filled with just came over here.

• 1:04:34Ed Zitron?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:35Speaker 06

  People talking about stuff, learning about, you know, you being a listener, learning about stuff. You laughing, you know, you crying, you know, you hearing creepy stuff, you know, gossipy stuff. That's just, it was just the radio. And now it's the radio over here. And it's, you know, and I, I, the one things I think, I think about it. It's the same thing with streaming. You know, TV. Network TV is, I mean, who fucking watches network television?

• 1:05:05Ed Zitron?

  I, I watched some of it the other day.

• 1:05:07Speaker 06

  It's, it's, it's astounding sometimes, you know?

• 1:05:09Ed Zitron?

  I think Blue Bloods is on every channel now.

• 1:05:12Speaker 06

  It's just very, you know, yeah, it's all.

• 1:05:14Ed Zitron?

  Except it's really fictional because the police appear to solve crimes in it.

• 1:05:17Speaker 06

  It's, there's all kinds of cop shit.

• 1:05:19Ed Zitron?

  There's so many cop shows.

• 1:05:20Speaker 06

  Network TV shit is just like cop worship, you know?

• 1:05:23Ed Zitron?

  And they solve crimes in it, very unrealistic.

• 1:05:25Speaker 06

  Grown up Paw Patrol, um, but it, uh, TV, you know, moved to streaming. And somebody pointed out, because streamings aren't, you know, these companies pour a ton of money into streaming and then they go, okay, now how do we get that money back out? And they all go, I don't know.

• 1:05:44Ed Zitron?

  I, I didn't think of that.

• 1:05:45Speaker 06

  More subscribers.

• 1:05:46Ed Zitron?

  It's the internet, there's a bazillion people on here.

• 1:05:48Speaker 06

  So they don't know how to get the money back out, so they start talking about advertising.

• 1:05:53Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 1:05:54Speaker 06

  So we're just like, okay, we're just back to television then. But like somebody, I, I don't even remember who, I should have remembered who, because it was an excellent point. We've gone back to the broadcast model, advertising, paying for it, except all the worker protections have been blown up.

• 1:06:12Ed Zitron?

  And all of the money.

• 1:06:13Speaker 06

  Yes, all of the money is going to like very small places, you know?

• 1:06:18Ed Zitron?

  Yeah, it's, it's.

• 1:06:21Speaker 06

  And it's the same with podcasts.

• 1:06:22Ed Zitron?

  Yes.

• 1:06:22Speaker 06

  Radio died, you've got podcasting and will pro, you know, podcasting is surviving on advertising dollars.

• 1:06:29Ed Zitron?

  Don't I fucking know everything? Emails I get, oh, did anyone, by the way, are you one of the listeners who emailed me about the AI ads that run after the air? I know, a hundred and fifty of you email me every extent, did you hear the AI ad? I know, you are not the first person to tell me.

• 1:06:44Speaker 06

  Right, right.

• 1:06:45Ed Zitron?

  I'm now gonna get thirty emails being like, hey, did you know?

• 1:06:47Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that they think that you're so like royal that you don't even know who's advertising on your show.

• 1:06:55Ed Zitron?

  And I, even if I didn't know, I would know now because I, I also get a fair amount of very nice emails, so I can't complain.

• 1:07:02Speaker 06

  But you do.

• 1:07:03Ed Zitron?

  Yes.

• 1:07:04Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's, it's very evident that you do.

• 1:07:06Ed Zitron?

  But it's. I think what it is is like, what you're saying with with podcasting, it's the advertising has to drive it. I know people who've started podcasts and like, shit, I can't make this work because like, where do I get the money from? Reader pledges? And it's like, what a surprise. There's not actually that many people will pay for stuff.

• 1:07:23Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:07:23Ed Zitron?

  And I think that that's the one of the bigger problems in media right now. There are things that people will pay for. There's four four four media in tech, there's Defector in sports, like, there's some really great publications out there. And Flaming Hydra as well, another great one. But it's scale. It doesn't exist. And I don't think it exists for podcasts. Like, you have like thirty podcasts that can make money on the reader thing.

• 1:07:45Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:07:45Ed Zitron?

  And it's just for it's frustrating. And also, I don't know if it's fixable. I don't know if there's a way of making the patron model work, even though it's the one that's the most honest.

• 1:07:54Speaker 06

  I I have no input on those things. I have that is so.

• 1:08:00Ed Zitron?

  Oh, me neither.

• 1:08:00Speaker 06

  Beyond me. And I don't I'm terrible with business and stuff. I mean, I understand making things entertaining.

• 1:08:08Ed Zitron?

  Right.

• 1:08:08Speaker 06

  And I and that's that's it for me. And that's whenever I've been approached about a television show and they're like, we wish more young women would watch. I'd be like, well, I don't know. I mean, I guess, I mean, one of my shows that was an actual note and it just seemed to come out the other end of just like, lots of scenes of the characters telling each other how much they liked each other. Which I just at a certain point, at a certain point, I was like, is that is that it? And it just seemed like.

• 1:08:38Ed Zitron?

  What the woman do?

• 1:08:40Speaker 06

  Just throwing shit against the wall and hoping it sticks.

• 1:08:43Ed Zitron?

  Woman have emotions like?

• 1:08:44Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:08:45Ed Zitron?

  It's no, when we did the because a lot of what we're talking about is just kind of broadcast fundamentals at some point. And so we did a long thirteen and a half hours in five days at CES, big consumer electronics.

• 1:08:56Speaker 06

  Oh, wow.

• 1:08:56Ed Zitron?

  It's called the Consumer Electronics Show.

• 1:08:57Speaker 06

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:08:58Ed Zitron?

  A big thing we got.

• 1:08:59Speaker 06

  I did a remote there.

• 1:09:00Ed Zitron?

  If you're ever in, you'll join us for one.

• 1:09:01Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:09:02Ed Zitron?

  No, please. But the big thing I did was we talked about loving everyone, like the fact that we had friendship and all this thing. We got so many emails being like, it's so nice to hear people saying they like each other.

• 1:09:10Speaker 06

  Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

• 1:09:12Ed Zitron?

  And you have to wonder if some of these shows, the big problem is they're like, how do we get young women to listen to this? What? It's like, have you tried fucking asking one? Have you tried asking a woman? You're like, no, no, no, no, you can't do that.

• 1:09:24Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:09:24Ed Zitron?

  We have to focus group it. And there'll be a bird in there, I think. It's just. It's and then even with podcasts that don't do well and they're like, why is this not doing well? Does it suck?

• 1:09:34Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:09:34Ed Zitron?

  Is it boring?

• 1:09:35Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:09:36Ed Zitron?

  The other side of it is there are a ton of podcasts that don't bother to try. They're just, they saw the, I don't know, Chap a Trap House or something like, oh, there's just a bunch of guys talking. But when you get down to the core of it, it's like, it's actually people who like each other and enjoy being around. There's chemistry with them.

• 1:09:50Speaker 06

  And they're good talkers.

• 1:09:52Ed Zitron?

  Yes.

• 1:09:52Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:09:52Ed Zitron?

  They don't, they do good talking and words and such. Well, Andy, it's been such a pleasure having you.

• 1:09:57Speaker 06

  Oh, thank you.

• 1:09:58Ed Zitron?

  No.

• 1:09:58Speaker 06

  Thank you. It's been really a fun and interesting conversation.

• 1:10:01Ed Zitron?

  So where can people find you?

• 1:10:03Speaker 06

  Uh, my podcast, The Three Questions, um, which is available at your podcast store.

• 1:10:11Ed Zitron?

  I will put the link in there as well.

• 1:10:13Speaker 06

  And in the, in the same, uh, feed, you will get, uh, replays of my call-in show, which is on Sirius XM. Wednesdays, uh, 1:00 PM Pacific, what would that be, 4:00 PM, uh, Eastern? Um, usually live, sometimes to tape, but lately it's just been live because we've been able to, and I've been getting, I get, I have a great, a guest host, usually somebody really funny.

• 1:10:36Ed Zitron?

  Cool.

• 1:10:36Speaker 06

  That, uh, and it's somebody that I want to be there. That's, that's the nice thing about my show too, is like, there's never somebody that's just like, you gotta talk to this person.

• 1:10:44Ed Zitron?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:45Speaker 06

  So, um, it's a, it's one of the most fun hours of my week, which I have always felt that if you have fun, your viewer or listener will have fun. You have, if you genuinely have fun. So, uh, that's on, uh, on Sirius XM, uh, channel 104.

• 1:11:04Ed Zitron?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:11:05Speaker 06

  Um, which is the Conan channel. And I love, I, and I mean, honestly, I'm, I am an early adopter of satellite radio and I love satellite radio. Um, I have it in my car, I listen to it on my phone and not just because of Howard, but it's like, it's great. There's very, very sort of, um, niche, specific music channels and that's totally up my alley.

• 1:11:28Ed Zitron?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:11:29Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:11:29Ed Zitron?

  Well, I've had a lovely time and you, you're gonna get this thing after this where it's a recording that I recorded at the beginning of the show and I lacked my swagger and boldness. I will then promise that I'm gonna re-record this. Matt Asowski, my producer, will hear this and he'll say, oh, it's gonna do it this time. I probably won't. Nevertheless, I love you all for listening. Thank you so much.

• 1:11:55Ed Zitron?

  Thank you for listening to Better Offline. The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song is Matt Osowski. You can check out more of his music and audio projects at mattosowski.com. M A T T O S O W S K I dot com. You can email me at [email protected] or visit betteroffline.com to find more podcast links and of course my newsletter. I also really recommend you go to chat dot where's your ed dot at to visit the Discord and go to r slash betteroffline to check out our Reddit. Thank you so much for listening.

• 1:12:28Speaker 07

  Better Offline is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:13:01Speaker 02

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