Part One: Dennis Hastert: The Longest-Serving Republican Speaker of the House

Robert tells Miles Gray the tangled story of Dennis Hastert, the longest-serving Republican Speaker of the House, pioneer of congressional corruption, and pedophile. Sources: Prosecutors detail sex abuse allegations against Dennis Hastert | PBS News Weekend https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/prosecutors-detail-sex-abuse-allegations-against-dennis-hastert Dennis Hastert Dies at 84: Timeline of Scandals, Controversies and Criminal Conviction - Newsweek https://www.newsweek.com/dennis-hastert-dead-speaker-controversy-scancal-wife-party-12525272 Uncovering the Dennis Hastert cover-up | Bloom Fudali https://thebloomfirm.com/uncovering-the-dennis-hastert-cover-up/ Former Speaker Dennis Hastert indicted - POLITICO https://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/former-speaker-dennis-hastert-indicted-in-payment-scheme-118387 Hastert returns to his humble beginnings after historic career -- Daily Herald https://web.archive.org/web/20150529074836/http:/prev.dailyherald.com/story/?id=139531 Washingtonpost.com: Plain-Talking Hastert Poised to Be Speaker https://web.archive.org/web/20201012001008/https:/www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/govt/leadership/stories/hastert122198.htm House Speaker Dennis Hastert Can Win Friends, But Can He Influence People? - Page 9 - tribunedigital-chicagotribune https://web.archive.org/web/20150610065908/http:/articles.chicagotribune.com/1999-04-11/features/9904110405_1_denny-yorkville-high-school-eyes/9 Biography of Speaker J. Dennis Hastert | Dickstein Shapiro https://web.archive.org/web/20150325174432/http:/www.dicksteinshapiro.com/people/speaker-j-dennis-hastert Ex-Yorkville school chief recalls no misconduct complaints against Hastert - Chicago Tribune https://web.archive.org/web/20190420135857/https:/www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-dennis-hastert-reaction-0530-20150529-story.html Payments by Hastert Linked to Report of Sexual Abuse - NYTimes.com https://web.archive.org/web/20150529214426/http:/www.nytimes.com/2015/05/30/us/politics/hastert-indictment.html Dennis Hastert has a history of keeping secrets - Vox https://web.archive.org/web/20160303222226/http:/www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2015/5/29/8685775/dennis-hastert-secrets See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Robert Evans?

  Welcome back to Behind the Bastards, a podcast about the very worst people in all of history. And to talk about a very special piece of shit who sadly has recently, not so sadly, has recently departed this mortal coil, we have someone who's still alive, the great Miles Gray. Welcome back to the show, Miles. Congratulations on being alive, unlike our subject today. How are you doing?

• 0:27Speaker 01

  Thank you. Thank you. I'm great. I'm great. Thank you so much for having me back. I love being on the show. I love the anxiety that I feel prior to you telling me who we're gonna talk about. And this is really the best part of the show is I'm just, I'm just trying to figure out what, how dark, how dark are we going today? Who are we on? What rocks are we turning over today together?

• 0:48Robert Evans?

  Sitting with bated breath to hear the name of our subject this week, which I should probably just give you now. This week, we're talking about Dennis Hastert.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  Oh, Denny Hastert, the disgraced Speaker of the House.

• 1:01Robert Evans?

  Oh, Denny, the longest-serving Republican Speaker of the House.

• 1:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes. And maybe showed us a thing or two of the darkness.

• 1:09Robert Evans?

  Showed a few people a thing or two.

• 1:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12Speaker 02

  Speaking of showing us things, do you want to tell people about the several podcasts you host?

• 1:18Robert Evans?

  Yeah. Before we talk about this pedophile, Miles?

• 1:22Speaker 01

  We're doing that in front.

• 1:22Robert Evans?

  How are you doing?

• 1:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, we like to get the plug.

• 1:25Speaker 01

  We talk about disgraced pedophile Speaker of the House, Denny Hastert.

• 1:28Speaker 02

  I mean, with Behind the Bastards, we like to get the plugs in up top because by the end, people are a little bummed.

• 1:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure, sure. Let's see, if you like, well, there's three shows. If you like daily news and politics, I used to be a lobbyist and then I gave up because I became so jaded that I just wanted to be funny. Check out The Daily Zeitgeist. I do that every day with Jack O'Brien. If you like 90 Day Fiance, I do that with Sofia Alexandra, who's been on this show a few times. That's called 420 Day Fiance. And also, I just started talking recently about my favorite sport, which is the Premier League English Soccer Football. That's a show, new show called Ain't It Footy? And that's with Jamelle Johnson and Chris Martin.

• 2:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I have no, I have no, no alliance in that league, so I just root for Arsenal for you.

• 2:17Speaker 01

  Thank you. And see, and Sophie, that's why I know you're, you're one of the decent people out here in podcasting. Thank you. You're blind allegiance to my soccer team. Yeah.

• 2:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, I got your back.

• 2:29Speaker 03

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 2:34Robert Evans?

  Picture this, you're listening to the Sniffy's Cruising Confessions podcast and suddenly, wait, what did they just say? Well, the questions raised in those show-stopping moments will be answered in the all-new bonus series, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions: Bedside Manor. Hosts Gabe and Chris will dive deep on a specific topic covered in that week's Tuesday episode, from sexual health and HIV prevention to finding the right doctor. Listen to this special bonus series, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions: Bedside Manor, now on the iHeart Radio app or wherever you get podcasts. Sponsored by Healthy Sexual from Gilead Sciences.

• 3:05Speaker 04

  Cash Flow Crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 3:39Robert Evans?

  Now, Miles, you mentioned that you used to be a lobbyist. We're gonna be talking a lot about lobbyists today, because one of the things Dennis Hastert did was kind of revolutionize how congressmen were corrupt vis-à-vis lobbyists. Or at least he was part of a wave of that. But I'm getting ahead of myself. As I noted, Dennis, you called him Denny, so did all of his friends. Every article you find about him will note that, like, his friends called him Denny.

• 4:02Speaker 01

  It's always Denny, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:03Robert Evans?

  Yeah. Dennis Hastert was the longest-serving Republican Speaker of the House. He was in office from 1999 to 2007, so basically, pretty close to the entirety of the Bush years. That's not the only thing he was, though. As some, but not all, of the obituaries after his October 3, 2026 death noted, he was also a serial child molester. In between those two points, he played a key role in advancing the cause of corruption in Congress and making partisan bickering even worse. And he also did a bunch of other shitty stuff. Like, we're, you're gonna be, there's so much other bad stuff, not just the pedophilia in the Dennis Hastert story. You know, that's the promise I have for you.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  Thank you for that guarantee. I appreciate it.

• 4:40Robert Evans?

  You're welcome. In his 2004 autobiography, Hastert's autobiography, which was titled Speaker: Lessons From Forty Years in Coaching and Politics, Hastert opens Chapter One, Just Call Me Denny, with a quote from Lewis Carroll, the author of Alice in Wonderland, who also had a hobby of taking naked pictures of little girls. He's not known to have molested anyone, but it's very likely he was in love with Alice Little, Lidle, the inspiration for Alice from the book, and her sister. Alice was 11 when they broke contact. And that's not super relevant, but just given that it's about a decade after this autobiography comes out, Hastert is exposed as a child molester. It's like, oh, okay. Interesting quote to open your book with there, of all of the people.

• 5:24Speaker 01

  He's like, yeah, he's like, yeah, the pull quote on the back was from R. Kelly. He was a real wild book role.

• 5:30Speaker 02

  Was he a, was he a big Lolita fan?

• 5:33Robert Evans?

  No, but that was not his, I mean, he picked a very different gender in terms of his predation. So maybe Lolita didn't have what he was looking for.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 5:43Robert Evans?

  So, John Dennis Hastert, I guess you could call him a JD, was born on January 2, 1942, which he notes in his autobiography, was right around when the Japanese took Manila and the New York Times announced the start of war rationing in the United States. He was born 7 pounds 11 ounces and his aunt declared him a chubby baby. He's gonna be, he's gonna be a bigger guy his whole life.

• 6:07Speaker 02

  Seven pounds 11 ounces is so normal. What are we doing?

• 6:11Robert Evans?

  Not, we're talking the, right at the end of the Great Depression.

• 6:14Speaker 02

  All right.

• 6:15Robert Evans?

  That's not, that's big. That's big for a baby in a country where everyone had been starving very recently.

• 6:20Speaker 02

  Fair enough.

• 6:22Robert Evans?

  Dennis was the first of three sons. The Hastert family moved to the United States from Luxembourg in the 1860s, making the accurate prediction that the next 80 years or so of European history would be better off avoided. The family lived in the Chicago area for a while, but moved to the Illinois countryside by the time Dennis was born. His parents met in Dwellit, and his dad became an embalmer and did that job until 1940, about two years before Dennis was born. At that point, he moved to Aurora, Illinois, and started a farm supply store. His dad's gonna go through a few businesses. They'll run, when Denny is a teenager, he'll work at his dad's restaurant, right? His father is a workaholic and seldom home, so when he's a very little kid, it's mostly his mom,

• 7:03Robert Evans?

  Naomi, who is kind of in charge of things. They have a small four Laker farm in Oswego, Illinois. The war years made little impression on a boy so young. He's like, three when the war ends. And his first solid memories would have then been the post-war boom that ran from the late 1940s on through the 50s. Once Dennis was old enough to help his dad, he went with him on delivery missions all over the area in their unheated 1936 truck to drop off, like, feed for livestock. Hastert fell in love with old trucks as a result of this, and he's going to collect antique fire trucks and shit later in life. He talks about that stuff all the time. I don't find it particularly interesting next to the other things he does. He writes in his autobiography, which was published during the height of his career, before any scandals hit. And that, one of the things that's interesting

• 7:48Robert Evans?

  about it is that there's like, there's bits in it that might be true and are probably at least partly true, but they're also clearly framed and crafted to make a political point because he's a Republican, writing his autobiography while he's still the Speaker of the House. So like, these anecdotes shouldn't be seen as like, literally what happened, but what Dennis thinks is like, thought was like, politically handy for you to believe happened in his life. So here's one of those stories. "I'm not gonna give you an allowance, Dad said when I was in the third grade. But if you want to earn some money, I'm gonna give you 20 chickens. You have to take care of them every day. We had a little hen house, and the chickens were mine. I went to pick up those eggs three times every day. I could sell them for about 30 cents a dozen and in a few extra bucks each week. When you collected eggs, the chickens would peck at you. Bravery for a kid, I decided then, was sticking your

• 8:31Robert Evans?

  hand in a chicken's nest, knowing she's gonna peck at you three or four times, and extracting the egg without breaking it." And I've had chickens. I don't know why he's getting attacked so much by them. I, I, I mean, like, that's not like a necessary part of the chicken eggs process.

• 8:46Speaker 01

  Your vibes are so bad that even chickens are like, get the fuck away from me somehow. And also, yeah, I love this like myth, self mythologizing too of like, and it didn't matter. I persevered. I got, I went in there and stole their young for commerce.

• 8:59Robert Evans?

  My, my dad wouldn't give me, wouldn't give me an allowance. I don't take handouts. You know, he taught me to work for my money, for my, right.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  I got pecked three to four times.

• 9:08Robert Evans?

  Yeah, uh, they have, he writes that, I, I don't know how big this farm gets. Cause he's, he repeatedly says that like, the family didn't have much, but they, you know, they had enough. But also he, he mentions vaguely at one point that like, in addition to the chickens, he was taking care of. They had like a thousand other chickens, which is like a sizable number of chickens. That's like a lot of, like, you would be getting pecked some just by sheer volume of chickens.

• 9:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. There's some bad eggs in there.

• 9:31Robert Evans?

  Yeah. Dennis also helped, yeah, that was good. Uh, Dennis also helped bail hay and do most of the other farm chores that you would expect from a farm kid. His political interest was minimal as a youth. His family seems to have been fairly comfortable. He claims they didn't have time for vacations and then immediately after that describes a week long vacation they took. He also, there's a couple of weird passages like that where he talks about how we didn't have much money. We, you know, we never got new things. And then he talks about his dad getting him a new bicycle. And I think he was trying to be like, this was the one time it happened, but just the way he wrote it.

• 10:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, doesn't come off that way.

• 10:04Robert Evans?

  You just said you didn't have this.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. Aside from you saying we didn't have much, everything else says you had much.

• 10:10Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah. I, I don't know how about much, but he's like a middle class, right? They're not like, desperate.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  The descriptions of his, uh, childhood betray just sort of like the, the broad statements of being like, you know, destitute.

• 10:24Robert Evans?

  Yeah. And it's just very quickly within those like, we didn't go on vacations. Here's a vacation we went on.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 10:30Robert Evans?

  Most of the profiles of Dennis in newspapers and magazines read something like this line from a 2008 article on him in the Daily Herald. Quote, Hastert became a born again Christian as a teenager. You'll, you'll, you'll hear that a lot. Then when he's a teen, he has this like moment and he gives himself up to Jesus. Obviously like, that's not impossible to believe, but the actual story he gives for how he got converted to Christianity as a kid who was born and raised as a Christian, right? Being born again means that it really, it really stuck this time, right?

• 10:59Speaker 01

  No, no, I swear. Like I got way more into it as a teenager.

• 11:02Robert Evans?

  I super got into Jesus now.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 11:04Robert Evans?

  But the, the specific story he gives feels like it was crafted by a consultant. I have trouble buying it. I was a pretty serious kid and in my early teenage years, I can remember feeling a great uneasiness. I was just unsettled and needed to have something happen to me. Sure enough, it did. We were in a cabin by a lake camping out overnight. Some kids might've produced a six pack of beer or a pack of cigarettes. My friend Jarman pulled out a Bible. Suddenly I had a yearning to accept Christ as my savior and I did. Almost instantly my uneasiness disappeared. Later I joined Jarman at the Claim Street Baptist Church in Aurora where his parents sang in the choir. This experience isn't something I discuss publicly, but it really changed my life. And again, it brought up in every interview, like about his life.

• 11:44Robert Evans?

  And also just like, oh yeah, the beer, that really made you like fear for your soul and you had to accept Jesus?

• 11:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. I just love that too. Like 100% written by a consultant. Well, just in, in the description of the things that he rejected, it's like, it's, I'm surprised it wasn't like, they had beers, cigarettes and a copy of Das Kapital. And I said, no.

• 12:04Robert Evans?

  The Communist Manifesto was the next.

• 12:07Speaker 01

  I will, I will choose the Bible.

• 12:09Robert Evans?

  Yeah. Oh, you don't know this, Miles, but back in the, uh, the 50s and early 60s, every sixer of Schlitz came with a copy of the Communist Manifesto. It was a weird, weird marketing promo, to be honest.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  Worked on some people.

• 12:21Robert Evans?

  Anyway, we know his, his parents were not supposed to be like crazy religious, but they went to church. He was going to church from a young age. So I think this, I don't know of how much I believe this is the moment that he gave his soul up to God. Or if he was just like looking for an explanation that sounded better than, well, I've just always been Christian, right? Which I think is more accurate.

• 12:38Speaker 01

  You definitely get points for being like, no, and then I actually made, it wasn't just by default that I became a Christian. I, I intentionally chose at this age in my life, but also for me, like, I remember growing up and the kids that like, kinda like would fit in the mold of born again. They were just like horny for some like girl in the church youth group. So they just started going to church youth group. And then one thing turned to another. And then they're like, actually I've been subs, I've been, I am part of the Borg now.

• 13:06Robert Evans?

  Yeah.

• 13:06Speaker 01

  Um, so maybe that's, I don't know if maybe there was some other reason, but it sounds like, it sounds like bullshit anyways. Just to be like, yeah, I re-upped my Christianity as a teenager.

• 13:15Robert Evans?

  And his friend, Tom Jarman, who is the guy he says brought the Bible out in lieu of the beer, doesn't give that, like, gives a very different story in that interview with the Daily Herald. Everybody worked, said Jarman. They talk about the 50s being innocent. Hell, there wasn't any time to get in trouble. I don't think there was anything virtuous in not drinking in high school. We just didn't have the time. And so the way his, his friend is like, that Bible story? No, we just literally didn't, we were working all the time. What are you talking about?

• 13:40Speaker 01

  He's like, do you tell the story about how he could smoke the most cigarettes and drink the most beer out of any kid we knew? Oh no, oh, nevermind, nevermind.

• 13:47Robert Evans?

  Man. So about the most exciting moment of Hastert's teenage years was the time his dad got him nine pigs to raise for a 4H fair. And his, he, he says his hogs grew into the largest pigs in the competition and he should've won, but then he gets fucked out of it. And here's, here's how he just explains that in his autobiography. A 4H leader from Yorkville, Illinois jumped up. My pigs were too big, he objected. They couldn't have been born when I claimed they were. Therefore they didn't deserve first place. The judge heard him out and dropped me down to fourth place. My dad was outraged. And

• 14:20Robert Evans?

  he claims this is when he first learned about like political influence. I don't know. I can't say Dennis cheated, right? I have no idea. I will say he's going to grow into a professional liar, cheat and child molester. So maybe the guy from the 4H club in Yorkville was on to something.

• 14:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and, and to the point where like even the judges, like, were just like, hmm. It's not like there was like a whole lobbying effort. They're like, the guy's paying for the judge's RV. And that's why he's on his side. This isn't a Harman Kropf situation.

• 14:52Robert Evans?

  Yeah, you're right. Pigs don't get this big, you know, this, this fast.

• 14:57Speaker 01

  The guy goes, yeah, how old'd you say this was? One years old? Yeah, no fucking way, dude.

• 15:01Robert Evans?

  No, no, you're full of shit. Um, his chief mentor at.

• 15:05Speaker 01

  I like though his, his, that the takeaway for him is like, so that's politics.

• 15:09Robert Evans?

  So that's how politics works.

• 15:10Speaker 01

  How to fucking cheat, but then make sure you don't get caught or changing the rules around you. When you brought a five-year-old pig to the fucking competition.

• 15:19Robert Evans?

  That is how politics works.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:22Robert Evans?

  His chief mentor at school was the football coach, Ken Pickerel, who Dennis called the most influential person in his early life. Hastert also got into wrestling, which Ken coached as well as football. But during his junior year, he suffered a shoulder separation that would hurt him for years. He had surgery several times and it got infected, but he still played on it. You know, it's one of those stories about like, I was injured, but I kept playing. Uh, in his autobiography, Dennis used this to argue that students who complain about getting injured during sports are cowards. I learned from the experience that when bad things happen, don't complain. Which is again, quite a sentence from a guy who as a coach molested his students. Hmm, Dennis. Yeah. Maybe dropping some hints in 2004.

• 16:04Robert Evans?

  Uh, when Hastert graduated high school, he and his best friend, Tom Jarman, were accepted to Wheaton College. One day during finals week, Dennis and Jarman were screwing around in boxing, something Jarman's parents forbade him to do. Hastert got his nose broken, so they covered up the boxing gear and went to the doctor. Jarman claims Hastert made their physician promise not to tell. I mean, Denny was quoting the law to this guy. And that's interesting too, that even this young, with at least so far, it seems like zero interest in politics and presumably no crimes under his belt, although, you know, we don't really know. Young Dennis knows the law well enough to be prepared to use it as a threat, as a threat against a medical professional to cover up that he was doing something he wasn't supposed to do. That's like a really kind of telling moment from him.

• 16:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, how old is he there?

• 16:49Robert Evans?

  He's like 18, maybe?

• 16:51Speaker 01

  Like you can, you can see how like, he's learning how to coerce, you know, at a minimum, right? It's just like, okay, there are ways to like even make a doctor do something, but I sure like to know what that weapon is.

• 17:03Robert Evans?

  Yeah. And he's willing to do it on the doctor. He's not going to be willing to do it on his mom. Per 1999 Chicago Tribune article by Bob Kemper. The boys paid cash, so no bill would be sent home, but months later a bill did arrive. A clerk had made a mistake. Jarman and Hastert were in the kitchen table when Naomi Hastert turned to them. She said, I know that if something happened and I ask you about it, you wouldn't lie, would you? Jarman recalled, and I said, no, Ms. Hastert, if you had asked, we wouldn't have lied. Then she looked at Denny and it was all over. He just blurted it out, right? So he's going to learn to be a better liar. That's, that's his character arc during this, this story.

• 17:37Robert Evans?

  It's also, again, always at a very early age, thinking about how do I cover up the evidence from this? I gotta make sure they don't send me a bill. That's also going to be something we'll hear about in part two. That has to try to cover up a bill.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  We're seeing a lot of aversion to accountability just develop in a very distinct way.

• 17:54Robert Evans?

  Yeah. Look, his life is a great example of what you do in good screenwriting, right? You know, you drop little hints and then you pay, or little teasers and then you pay them off in the last act, right? And that's the Dennis Hastert story. Very well written.

• 18:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 18:08Robert Evans?

  During this period, all Wheaton College students had to sign a pledge. Wheaton is like a super conservative evangelical university. All the students had to sign a pledge and promise not to smoke, drink, gamble, dance, or watch movies.

• 18:20Speaker 01

  I love that old timey shit. No dancing or watching a movie.

• 18:25Robert Evans?

  No dancing or movie watching. Period. I actually looked into, these rules were initially let out in 1860, and they also, like, students had to pledge to avoid, quote, "propagating infidel principles." But we, man, it's been a while since I've heard of evangelical Christians using the word infidel. That's a fun little slice of history right there.

• 18:49Speaker 01

  How do they mean that? They're just any sort of out, an influence that is un-

• 18:54Robert Evans?

  An influence that's not their little corner of Christianity.

• 18:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:58Robert Evans?

  I think specifically their weird little corner of it.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  So no yoga, other infidel things like that?

• 19:03Robert Evans?

  You're not doing yoga at Wheaton in this point in time.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  Oh, you mean infidel gymnastics?

• 19:08Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah, that's infidel gymnastics. That's yoga.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  We're not doing that.

• 19:11Robert Evans?

  That's actually a good name for a yoga studio. Anyway, this was-

• 19:14Speaker 01

  Infidel gymnastics.

• 19:17Robert Evans?

  Hastert nearly majored in religion during his early years. He recalled, "I was trying to take Old Testament and New Testament and theology classes, and I was competing with all these preachers' kids and missionaries' kids. It was tough." In other words, because it's the school where all of the missionary kids go to, he just kind of realizes, like, oh, I'm kind of in out of my depth here when it comes to religious studies. Hastert would later praise the religious grounding Wheaton gave him, claiming, "It gives you direction, the perspective where you hold yourself. I'm not saying I'm a humble person. I wouldn't blow my own horn on humility, but I certainly think that a lot of things I do are certainly guided by my faith." Interesting. We'll see where the guidance of his faith takes him. As a right-wing evangelical institution, Wheaton missed the most exciting parts of

• 20:00Robert Evans?

  the civil rights movement that is occurring, the early stages of it, while he is in college. Kemper's 1999 profile points out that there were no sit-ins at Wheaton, and in Hastert's senior yearbook, there was only one picture of a protest. Quote, "It shows clean-cut men holding signs reading, 'Could Abe Lincoln graduate from Wheaton and don't band the beard?'" They were protesting the school's no-beard rule.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  Oh, my god. What the f-? What year is this? You said this is during this, like, 61?

• 20:26Robert Evans?

  This is 64. This is 64, 63 or 64. And I should note that in 1963, the year before Hastert graduated, fired men were photographed turning their hoses on civil rights protesters in Birmingham during the March from Selma, right? But I'm sure the beard stuff was important, too, you know?

• 20:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. But our beards, I mean, I wonder if they, that was their way to sort of acknowledge the civil rights movement by winking at Abraham Lincoln, the liberator of sorts?

• 20:52Robert Evans?

  I don't think that's what they were doing. I don't think that's what they were doing.

• 20:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know they were. I mean, I wonder, what do you think it's like at that school, and they like read the news, and they're like, wow, you think LBJ is gonna sign this civil rights act or something? He's gotta be way off, huh?

• 21:07Robert Evans?

  Oh, I think, I think reading the news is probably one of the things you're not supposed, that's one of the infidel-

• 21:12Speaker 01

  Infidel, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 21:13Robert Evans?

  Activities, yeah?

• 21:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just read the Bible. That's the only thing you need to read up on.

• 21:18Robert Evans?

  Bible's the only good news you need. Hastert played football while he was in college, and he also got into wrestling. His shoulder injury is apparently a problem, but it also apparently doesn't trouble him enough to stop him from playing contact sports. But here's something really weird, Miles. He's able to continue playing football, and he's able to keep wrestling with this injury. But then, when it comes time to go to Vietnam, ah, ah, my shoulder! I can't, I just can't. Oh, I want it so bad. It just too hurts. I mean, I can tackle a guy on the gridiron, but like, I just couldn't go to war, you know?

• 21:55Speaker 01

  Sure, you saw me playing rugby earlier in a scrum. It was, I don't know, that was, I was healed.

• 22:01Robert Evans?

  Yes, I bench pressed 375 pounds, but no, I couldn't. I'm not fit enough for NOM, obviously.

• 22:07Speaker 01

  Push-up? Ah, shit, I don't know.

• 22:09Robert Evans?

  My shoulder, my shoulder.

• 22:11Speaker 01

  Was he, did he come, was that enough of an excuse, or did he have, like-

• 22:14Robert Evans?

  No, that gets him out of NOM.

• 22:15Speaker 01

  Did class insulate him enough? Oh, okay, so clearly he was able to just rely on the injury?

• 22:19Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, there's, yeah, that is my understanding. That's what's written in Kemper's article. Kemper also notes that his college roommate, a guy named Parmaly, did get sent to Vietnam and became the first Wheaton graduate to die in Vietnam in 1965. He was killed by friendly fire from an American mortar. In that Chicago Tribune piece, Kemper adds, "Hastert still visits Parmaly's parents in Michigan and once invoked his friend's memory on the House floor in a debate over the burning of the American flag. So again, too hurt to go serve his country, but willing to use the name of his dead roommate to tell people not, that they shouldn't have a freedom." Yeah.

• 22:55Speaker 01

  You damn right I'm gonna score rhetorical points at the lectern over this guy's death and-

• 23:00Robert Evans?

  Yeah, cool stuff.

• 23:01Speaker 01

  Leave that shit right there. Yeah, I, yeah, I think I have something to say, yeah.

• 23:03Robert Evans?

  And look, I'm perfectly pro people getting out of serving in Vietnam if they don't go on to support every single war this country has ever been in since.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Precisely.

• 23:14Robert Evans?

  Since he couldn't go to NOM, he decided he wanted to teach high schoolers about politics. He got a gig helping coach freshman football at his alma mater, and he starts taking teaching classes at Northern Illinois University. And he's working on his degree, but you only have to do a portion of your degree before you can start teaching, as long as you like finish your degree while you're teaching. So while he's finishing this second degree, he takes a job at Yorkville High School, just a few miles from his own former high school. In his autobiography, he claims he shows up to an interview at Yorkville High School in street clothes. He was just trying to ask about an opening, and to his surprise, he's whisked into a brief interview. Quote, "I was a live body, and they needed one." What's interesting about this, that's not a crazy story in teaching, a lot of schools

• 23:57Robert Evans?

  are understaffed, like, as long as you're qualified, you can, that happens sometimes, right? This is also the entire story of Hastert's political career, is he just shows up and like, we need a live body, get in here, get in here, get in here. Like, now you're the speaker. Well, you'll, this will become increasingly clear later, but it's funny how consistently this is how this guy gets everything in his life.

• 24:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, just Forrest Gump-ing it through everything.

• 24:19Robert Evans?

  He is really gumping his way up the ladder. So he's hired, and he also gets the job coaching the wrestling team. I guess they just didn't have a wrestling coach. They'd only started the program a year earlier. Before the semester began, he takes a trip to see his aunt in Bethesda, and since he was going to be teaching politics, he decides to visit DC for the first time while he's there. One thing he notes that's of interest is that, quote, "Back then, if you wore a suit, you could go anywhere." So he just walks into the Senate chamber and sits down to listen to Barry Goldwater argue with Mike Mansfield about US missile programs? Apparently, that's how Congress used to work. He just walked in.

• 24:51Speaker 01

  Oh, my, that easy? Are you a white guy in a suit? Oh, step right in.

• 24:56Robert Evans?

  Come on, and clearly you belong in Congress.

• 24:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're here for this debate about missile policy? Of course, of course.

• 25:03Robert Evans?

  You know, you're technically fifth in line to the presidency right now, just for showing up.

• 25:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, right.

• 25:08Robert Evans?

  Aw, man, the 60s. Speaking of the 1960s, you know what probably will sell you acid? The sponsors of this podcast. That was a good, that was a good pivot.

• 25:20Speaker 02

  I was gonna say, you know who's not fifth in line to the presidency?

• 25:23Robert Evans?

  I don't know that, Sophie.

• 25:25Speaker 02

  We don't, we really don't. We have no idea what to pop up.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  You line.

• 25:32Robert Evans?

  This ad is brought to you by ViiV Healthcare, the makers of Devoto Dolutegravir Lamivudine. If you're living with HIV, do learn about Devoto. Devoto is a complete HIV treatment by prescription only for some people 12 and older. Your doctor will determine if Devoto was right for you. Most HIV pills contain three or four medicines. Devoto is as effective with just two. No other complete HIV pill contains fewer medicines than Devoto.

• 25:56Speaker 05

  It is unknown if Devoto is safe and effective if you have HIV and hepatitis B. If you have Hep B, don't stop Devoto without talking to your doctor, as it may get worse or harder to treat. Don't take Devoto if you're allergic to its ingredients, or taking Dofetilide due to serious or life-threatening side effects. If you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop Devoto and get medical help right away. Other serious or life-threatening side effects include severe liver problems and lactic acid buildup. If you're female or obese, you may be more at risk. Tell your doctor about your medicines or supplements, medical conditions, liver or kidney problems, pregnancy, breastfeeding, or planned pregnancy.

• 26:31Robert Evans?

  Do ask your doctor about fewer medicines. Visit devoto.com or call 1-877-844-8872.

• 26:41Speaker 06

  It's 6:47 on a Friday. Your team's already gone home. And somewhere, a phone is ringing. It's a customer. They're ready to book. Nobody picks up. So they call the next company. That's a missed call and missed revenue. With Quo, you don't have to choose between doing the work and answering the phone. Your team can share calls, texts, and customer conversations in one place. And when no one's available, Quo's AI assistant can answer, handle questions, and even book the appointment for you. So whether you're on a job, in a meeting, or done for the day, your business can keep answering. Setup takes minutes. Keep the number you already have and add your team as you grow. No IT required. It's why over 90,000 companies trust Quo, the number one rated business phone

• 27:25Speaker 06

  system on G2. Money is on the line. Always say hello with Quo. Try Quo for free, then get 20% off your first six months at quo.com/behind. That's Q U O dot com slash behind.

• 27:39Speaker 07

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 28:08Robert Evans?

  You love the Sniffy's Cruising Confessions podcast, but you've got questions. Don't worry, everybody does. To answer them, hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson-Rosso just dropped a new bonus series, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions: Bedside Manor. For all your burning questions, the guys turn to the experts, including Dr. Dimitri Duskalakis, an infectious disease doctor, public health honcho, and big-time advocate in LGBTQ+ health, HIV prevention, and health equity. Think of it as the after show to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, where the crew dives deep into topics and stories from that week's Tuesday episode. Episodes cover topics including testing, and why are they swabbing there? Finding a doctor who's

• 28:50Robert Evans?

  not so judgy, and so much more. It's all about busting sexual health myths and helping listeners better understand the topics they may want to explore with their own doctors. Listen to this special bonus series, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions: Bedside Manor, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get podcasts. Sponsored by Healthy Sexual from Gilead Sciences.

• 29:16Robert Evans?

  And we're back. So, after Hastert visits DC for the first time, he also, before he starts his, starts teaching at Yorkville, he goes on a YMCA-backed trip to Japan. Weirdly enough, one of the people who's on this trip with him is Tony Podesta, the former lobbyist and brother of former White House Chief of Staff John Podesta. That doesn't go anywhere. It's just weird.

• 29:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay.

• 29:39Robert Evans?

  Like, he and Tony argue about politics, but I was just like, well, that's kind of, didn't expect a Podesta to show up in here.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  On a YMCA trip?

• 29:47Robert Evans?

  On a YMCA trip to Japan.

• 29:49Speaker 02

  Didn't know YMCA offered trips.

• 29:53Robert Evans?

  I don't think that's how they work anymore, Sophie.

• 29:56Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 29:57Speaker 01

  The YMCA of all of this is very different than the ones we have now, where I take my kid to learn how to swim.

• 30:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was gonna say, that's like where my niece is learning how to swim, and it's lovely. It's a great experience.

• 30:08Robert Evans?

  So Dennis started teaching and coaching at Yorkville in late 1965, while he was still finishing his teaching degree. In 1971, when he was six years in, a woman named Jean Call started teaching PE there. The two started dating and eventually fell in love and got married. She spoke to the Tribune for that 1999 profile, and here's a quote from that. "The most striking thing about him," she recalled, "was how he tuned out the rest of the world during wrestling season. If it was during wrestling season, he's a different person," she said. "He's very focused. In between sports, he was a good guy to be around." Now, this was written almost 20 years before we knew that Dennis Hastert had been molesting kids as a wrestling coach, but wow.

• 30:50Speaker 01

  That's terrifying.

• 30:51Robert Evans?

  He's a different person dur- he's a good guy to be around in between sports?

• 30:56Speaker 01

  Just when not the sports is happening. I'm sorry, what is happening during the sports, then?

• 31:01Robert Evans?

  Yeah, what's he like during the sports?

• 31:03Speaker 01

  What a, wow, okay.

• 31:05Robert Evans?

  Oops.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  99.

• 31:06Robert Evans?

  So, uh, yeah, now, we're gonna talk now about what he does as a high school wrestling coach. But again, I need you to know that this doesn't come out until, like, the 20 teens, right? So this is all happening in the 70, I mean, the late 60s up through 1980, but none of this is gonna come out until really not all that long ago, right? So people don't know this at the time, what I'm telling you, other than his victims. So, Yorkville had only started its wrestling program the year before Hastert arrived. Ed Ewalt, an Illinois state wrestling historian, notes that his first move was to have his kids compete against the schools with the best programs. His philosophy was, you only learn by wrestling the best. That is probably a good philosophy, because it really works, right? Like, he's, he's an effective-

• 31:51Speaker 01

  Humbles you, too.

• 31:52Robert Evans?

  Sure, yeah, and it gets, gets you, like, working with kids who you're gonna learn things from, right? This works very well, and in terms of his ability to coach a wrestling team to victory, Hastert is very good at his job. Most articles from before the allegations dropped will laud him for having taken on every other job around for the team. He drove the bus, he did a lot of the cleaning, he would take the kids on special trips to learn from other coaches. He was an incredibly involved coach and was like doing the work of multiple adults to run the wrestling team. Incidentally, this meant that Hastert was often the only adult with these boys. An interview with his former boss at Yorkville High School from a different and much later Chicago Tribune article notes, "Reached at his home, Garnett told the Chicago Tribune he remembered Hastert's commitment to his

• 32:37Robert Evans?

  athletes, whom the coach often took on road trips to wrestling camps, or to compete with larger suburban school districts and non-conference wrestling meets." So, he's like, "I never knew, I thought he was a great coach. No one ever said anything bad about him. He was always taking the kids out of state."

• 32:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:53Robert Evans?

  And/or out of the area on his own. We don't know precisely, yeah, sorry, what'd you say?

• 33:00Speaker 01

  No, no, just like, it's, it's, it's so funny how often, like, there's always, like, these, like, child molesters and, like, sports programs, things, because it just, like, they're sort of, it's so much easier, I think, for people to let their guard down, because they think, like, well, they're there to do sports and nothing else. And, yeah, you're not even, like, thinking much of, like, they went on that trip where they, I think they were learning football stuff, or wrestling, or gymnastics, or whatever it was.

• 33:24Robert Evans?

  A lot of trips. Like, he was a really dedicated coach. He's always taking the boys away.

• 33:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, right. Taking them off our hands.

• 33:32Robert Evans?

  We don't know precisely when Hastert started molesting his wrestlers. We do know that ultimately, five people would come forward to the authorities, obviously as adults. And in one case, it was the relative of a person who had been molested by Hastert but since died. And we know that at least one of those five people claimed to know other victims who chose not to come forward, right? So there are more than five victims, by every credible account, right? But we don't know how many. I don't, my guess would be, he probably didn't start molesting kids year one. I just assume it's the kind of thing he would have, like, worked up to, but I don't know, like, exactly when he started. The first evidence of him molesting a student is in 1971. I should also note that he marries

• 34:15Robert Evans?

  Jean in 1972. I don't know if, like, that was cover, or what? Like, how, what he would have thought of in terms of that relationship. He and his wife are generally apart after he finishes teaching, right? They seem, like, not that there's any evidence publicly they had a bad relationship, but, like, she won't follow him to Washington, which is interesting. The earliest victim we know of, sorry, I said 1971, the earliest victim we know of was Steve Rainbolt, who was the student equipment manager of the wrestling team in 1970. Steve died before he could come forward, but his sister Jolene talked to the press once allegations from other victims had been publicized. He'd come out to her as gay in 1979, years after

• 34:57Robert Evans?

  graduating. A friend of Steve's also confirmed that Steve had told him that Hastert had molested him in 1974. Per an article in ABC News written by Brian Ross, Rhonda Schwartz, and John Capel, quote, "I asked him, 'When was your first same-sex experience?'" He looked at me and said, "'It was with Dennis Hastert,' Jolene said. I was stunned. Jolene said she asked her brother why he never told anyone, and he just looked around and he kind of looked at me and said, 'Who is ever going to believe me?'" She explained that her brother expressed having been traumatized by the abuse. "He took his belief in himself and his kind of right to be a normal person. Here was the mentor, the man who was, you know, basically his friend, and stepped into that parental role, who was the one who was abusing him. He damaged Steve, I think, more than any of us will ever know."

• 35:41Robert Evans?

  We'll hear more from Jolene later.

• 35:43Speaker 02

  That's horrible.

• 35:44Robert Evans?

  One of, yeah. One of the other victims that we know by name is Scott Cross. In the fall of 1979, Cross was the wrestling team captain. The Chicago Tribune talked to him after he testified when all this goes to court. And I'm going to quote now from an article by Kristi Gatawski, based on that interview. "As a young boy, I wanted to be part of what Coach Hastert had created," Cross said. "I was a small guy with a lot of ambition and wrestling seemed to be the perfect sport for me. He was a key figure in my life as a coach and a teacher." Late one night after practice as senior year, Cross stayed afterwards to try to lose some weight for an upcoming match. Hastert suggested a massage could take some pounds off. But instead Hastert, quote, "pulled down my shorts," Cross testified, "and touched him sexually.

• 36:29Robert Evans?

  Stunned, Cross got dressed and ran out of the locker room immediately. He never told anyone. As a 17-year-old boy, I was devastated," he testified. "I tried to figure out why Coach Hastert had singled me out. I felt very alone and tremendously embarrassed. I felt intense pain, shame, and guilt. Today, I understand that I did nothing to bring this on, but at age 17, I could not understand what happened or why."

• 36:50Robert Evans?

  Now, both of these guys are abused when they're 17, which is not at all okay. I think there's at least one that was abused at 18. But at least I should also note, one of Hastert's victims claims the abuse, which included forced oral sex, began when he was just 14 years old. So, we know that there were more than five victims and we know, the ones we know ranged in age from 14 to 18. We don't know if there were like any younger ones. I mean, he was at a high school, so, so maybe not, but, right? Like, we just, we just don't have like a comprehensive understanding. One could argue, even if he didn't actually physically touch all of his students, that entire teams that he coached were victimized, even though many of them would not have realized what was happening. And I'm going to quote again from that interview with Scott Cross.

• 37:36Robert Evans?

  And this is, this is the fucking kicker, folks. "He also recalled Hastert's habit of sitting in a recliner in direct view of the shower stalls and watching the teens while they showered. But," Cross said, "I had accepted this because I trusted him and my teammates appeared to as well."

• 37:52Speaker 01

  Holy shit.

• 37:54Robert Evans?

  I, that's just, that really, that's a different time. Because I have trouble today if someone's saying, "Yeah, the coach sits in a recliner and watches us through the open shower stalls." Of anyone not being like, "What the fuck?"

• 38:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:05Robert Evans?

  Like-

• 38:06Speaker 01

  And I think this also speaks to that era of not even understanding what is appropriate, what's inappropriate, your ability to consent, like, or even knowing that's like, "Well, I'm just taking a shower." So, you're not thinking of it as like some kind of sexual thing.

• 38:19Robert Evans?

  Exactly.

• 38:20Speaker 01

  Meanwhile, this guy's got a fucking barcalounger pulled up to just fucking observe the team. Like, that's fucking terrifying.

• 38:26Robert Evans?

  A recliner, like fucking hell. Longest-serving Republican Speaker of the House.

• 38:31Speaker 01

  There isn't like a more intentional seat than a recliner.

• 38:35Robert Evans?

  No.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? It's not a folding chair. It's not a fucking stool or some fucking milk crate. You got, you brought a fucking recliner?

• 38:42Robert Evans?

  A recliner, yeah. The dirtiest of all the dirty old man chairs. So, that's what we know about what Dennis Hastert did to his students. He clearly didn't set off alarms for most of his students because when this all first comes out and it's kind of unclear, like what Hastert has done, just that he's being blackmailed by someone who says that he abused them, because that's how this initially breaks. There are news articles with a bunch of his former wrestlers. I'm not going to quote from them, but there's a lot of quotes where like, "I thought he was a great guy. He was my mentor. I never saw anything." So, clearly, many, if not most, of his wrestlers did not notice what was happening.

• 39:19Robert Evans?

  And under his leadership, the team did historically well, which may have something to do with everyone's rosy memories, right? The fact that they were champions. Between 1974 and 1979, they finished in the top three state teams five times. They won the state championship in 1976 and Hastert was named Coach of the Year, which he would later claim to be one of his proudest accomplishments. He started a wrestling newspaper called The Word and helped organize and then lead the National Association of Wrestling Coaches. In his autobiography, Speaker, Hastert claimed to have looked back to his old coach as a model for how to behave, which does make me wonder about his own high school experiences. Here's what he said. "He'd push, push, push, but he would never invade an athlete's dignity. His boys loved him for that, and it taught me a lesson I've tried to remember ever since.

• 40:05Robert Evans?

  There's never sufficient reason to try to strip away another person's dignity."

• 40:10Speaker 01

  Huh, odd, yeah.

• 40:12Robert Evans?

  Yeah. A lot of dignity and, and rolling a fucking barcalounger up to the open shower stalls?

• 40:18Speaker 01

  Again, I mean, like this guy-

• 40:19Robert Evans?

  The dignified?

• 40:19Speaker 01

  I think it's, it's clear, just even from like-

• 40:22Robert Evans?

  Yeah.

• 40:22Speaker 01

  His early age, like he's, the Machiavellianism, like in him-

• 40:26Robert Evans?

  Yeah.

• 40:27Speaker 01

  Is so clear that like, it's, you could take the things he says at face value, or you could be like, "This guy is trying to play three moves ahead with every, every single thing he says and does, too."

• 40:37Robert Evans?

  And it works so, all of the articles about him, when he first became Speaker, are like, "He's like a quiet, plainspoken man, a humble, country guy with no ambition, right? Like, no scam." We'll talk about that more. By the end of the 1970s, Dennis was starting to chafe at his position, teaching, coaching, and molesting. There are two different claims about how and why he decided to get into politics. The folksy, homespun, PR-friendly version was given in that 1999 Tribune article. Hastert has a story he likes to tell when asked how he got started in politics. He says he was on a lobbying trip to Washington with a wrestling group when he realized that the congressmen were just like anybody else and that maybe he too could do the job.

• 41:16Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 41:17Robert Evans?

  So, that's, he just like goes for some wrestling thing and he's like, "Well, they're all people just like me. I could be in Congress."

• 41:23Speaker 01

  In what way?

• 41:24Robert Evans?

  That's it. In, yeah, in what way are they like? I mean, I can tell you one way in terms of some of the people he's going to work alongside. "In my research, I found a different, more believable story as to why he decided to go into politics. After he left office," so this is after he finishes being Speaker and he leaves Congress, "he gives an interview to The Hill," and this is while he's working as a lobbyist making a million dollars a year. "And he tells them, 'I needed money. I asked for a raise. The school said, 'We can't pay you anymore. You're already at the top of the scale. They offered to make him a high school vice principal, but Hastert said he didn't want that kind of headache. I read in the paper that our state representative was resigning, and I decided, 'I can do that.'" So, by that account, he just wanted more money. He just wanted money. That's why he got into politics, is fucking money. And he's going to make a lot of money.

• 42:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, what about that job? Well, that guy, that's a different position. Well, I want, well, is he leaving? Yeah?

• 42:15Robert Evans?

  Yeah.

• 42:15Speaker 01

  All right, I'll do that then.

• 42:16Robert Evans?

  I'll take that job. I'll take that job.

• 42:17Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 42:18Robert Evans?

  And he is going to get that job the same way he got his last job, pretty much. Dennis gets 600 people to sign a petition saying he'd make a good state representative. And eventually, he gets a call from a county GOP operative named Phyllis Oldenburg, who acted as his first political mentor. Oldenburg recalled later, "He knew nothing about politics. He will be the first to own up to that today. It has been the most beautiful time to watch him grow. I sit in awe of the whole situation." That quote came out before the scandal.

• 42:46Robert Evans?

  Dennis ran in the GOP primary for the Illinois State House. So, he runs in the primary and he loses, right? This is in 1980. This is his first campaign and he loses. But, you know, maybe this would have dissuaded him from continuing in politics, but then it turns into a win. Because the guy who had won the nomination, who had like won the primary, incumbent Representative Al Shoboline, falls ill with a fatal disease. I forget exactly what it is, but he gets like deadly ill and he drops out suddenly. And party leaders pick Hastert because of the other people who'd been in the primary, he'd done pretty well and he seemed reliable and, most importantly, relatively unambitious. They thought he was someone, "If we tell him to do this, tell him to do that, he'll do what we say." Right?

• 43:30Robert Evans?

  Dallas Ingamson, the Kendall County GOP operative who helped pick Hastert, said this to Bob Kemper. "There are some people who want to get into this political business who I have no question why they're there. I never had to question Denny. It was clear he wasn't just out for himself."

• 43:45Robert Evans?

  Sure. The same pattern is going to repeat itself in weird ways throughout his career. Hastert gets where he's going by being reliable, not making waves, seeing like a safe dude, you can park somewhere without worrying about his ambition causing issues, right? Like, he's not going to fuck things up for you, he'll do what you tell him.

• 44:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 44:02Robert Evans?

  In short order, Dennis establishes himself as an arch-conservative. The Moral Majority inducted him into their state honor roll. Per that Tribune profile, "One of Hastert's first efforts in the State House was to help block passage of the Equal Rights Amendment, a constitutional amendment ensuring the rights of women. Hastert, who opposed the ERA, was appointed by then House Speaker George Ryan to a committee that prevented the ERA from ever reaching the House floor. 'I strongly believe in human equality and human rights and will continue to support those concepts in legislation,' Hastert wrote to a constituent, adding that he thought women's rights were already adequately protected by the Constitution." Interesting. Years later, while serving in real Congress, Hastert would protest reforming Title IX, which requires equal access for women in college varsity sports.

• 44:45Robert Evans?

  His justification was that the law undercut men's sports because some schools were cutting out programs entirely to avoid starting them for women. And he's like, "Well, we just, we just need to not have Title IX then."

• 44:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:56Robert Evans?

  Right? If it's going to endanger men's sports. Yeah.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  Sounds like, then we just exclude females, then.

• 45:02Robert Evans?

  Right.

• 45:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay.

• 45:03Robert Evans?

  Yeah. His votes in the State House were not all perfectly conservative. He voted against giving tax credits to parents to take their kids to private schools, and he voted against using public school buses to transport private school students, which I think are pretty good votes. He won't stay consistent on this when he goes up to big people Congress, but there's some evidence that he had minor principles that outweighed party politics for a little while. Like, he's going to be super anti-union as like a big boy congressman, but he, he was like the head of his local teacher union for a while, and so he doesn't immediately roll on unions. It's up until he gets to like the federal level, pretty much, that he starts fucking on unions, I think.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  Well, I think it's like, at that point, the incentives aren't as big to completely-

• 45:44Robert Evans?

  Right.

• 45:45Speaker 01

  You know, betray your fellow working man.

• 45:48Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah. It's kindergarten in Congress.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like, you have, you have the, the political capital to sort of like vote your, your principles, but then-

• 45:55Robert Evans?

  Right.

• 45:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, when you get to the show, the money's, the money is, is too much.

• 46:00Robert Evans?

  The money's the money, yeah. During his time in the State House, lawmakers were petitioned to call the Constitutional Convention and pass an amendment demanding a balanced federal budget. He told advocates for the convention that he didn't think it was a good idea to require a balanced federal budget. Interesting. From the start of his political career, Hastert started finding jobs for his friends and family. That Chicago Tribune piece from 1999 has one particularly fun example of this. One day in 1985, Hastert got a letter from another government office promising to hire a man he had recommended. At the bottom of the letter, in black ink, Hastert wrote a note to one of his staff. "Carol, check this out. Did I write a letter for this guy?" Next to his inquiry, in red ink, Carol responded, "Yes, this is my cousin. Thanks."

• 46:44Robert Evans?

  Cool, cool stuff.

• 46:47Robert Evans?

  I love politics. I should note that Hastert also used his time in the State House to oppose bills banning discrimination against gay people. He also supported a mandatory seatbelt law, but then voted to repeal it after a backlash, saying that he just saw too many people driving without seatbelts and realized the law didn't make sense.

• 47:05Speaker 01

  Well, because too many people were ignoring it?

• 47:08Robert Evans?

  Because people aren't wearing their seatbelts. He's like, well, this is a bad law. People hate seatbelts. It's out of my hands.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  I wish that logic was applied more where it's like, well, no one's obeying this one law that's completely restrictive. I guess we better drop it.

• 47:21Robert Evans?

  Look, people love heroin.

• 47:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, all right.

• 47:24Robert Evans?

  We gotta sell it in the grocery store.

• 47:25Speaker 01

  What are we gonna do? Just tell them to stop? I think we got this whole thing wrong.

• 47:29Robert Evans?

  Look, Americans love nuclear weapons. They should be available at the store, over the counter, you know?

• 47:32Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 47:33Robert Evans?

  Like flu medicine. Also, flu medicine should be over the counter again.

• 47:36Speaker 01

  I wanna, I wanna play a, play a flute made out of plutonium.

• 47:40Robert Evans?

  That's right, that's right. Speaking of plutonium, do you know where you can buy some plutonium? Maybe from our sponsors, I don't know. We don't vet them.

• 47:50Robert Evans?

  This ad is brought to you by Vive Healthcare, the makers of Devoto Dolutigrevir Lamivudine. If you're living with HIV, do learn about Devoto. Devoto is a complete HIV treatment by prescription only for some people 12 and older. Your doctor will determine if Devoto was right for you. Most HIV pills contain three or four medicines. Devoto is as effective with just two. No other complete HIV pill contains fewer medicines than Devoto.

• 48:14Speaker 05

  It is unknown if Devoto is safe and effective if you have HIV and hepatitis B. If you have Hep B, don't stop Devoto without talking to your doctor, as it may get worse or harder to treat. Don't take Devoto if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking Dofetilide due to serious or life-threatening side effects. If you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop Devoto and get medical help right away. Other serious or life-threatening side effects include severe liver problems and lactic acid buildup. If you're female or obese, you may be more at risk. Tell your doctor about your medicines or supplements, medical conditions, liver or kidney problems, pregnancy, breastfeeding, or planned pregnancy.

• 48:49Robert Evans?

  Do ask your doctor about fewer medicines. Visit devoto.com or call 1-877-844-8872.

• 48:59Speaker 06

  It's 6:47 on a Friday. Your team's already gone home. And somewhere, a phone is ringing. It's a customer. They're ready to book. Nobody picks up. So they call the next company. That's a missed call and missed revenue. With QUO, you don't have to choose between doing the work and answering the phone. Your team can share calls, texts, and customer conversations in one place. And when no one's available, QUO's AI assistant can answer, handle questions, and even book the appointment for you. So whether you're on a job, in a meeting, or done for the day, your business can keep answering. Setup takes minutes. Keep the number you already have and add your team as you grow. No IT required. It's why over 90,000 companies trust QUO, the number one rated business phone system on G2.

• 49:44Speaker 06

  Money is on the line. Always say hello with QUO. Try QUO for free, then get 20% off your first six months at quo.com/behind. That's Q U O dot com slash behind.

• 49:57Speaker 04

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 50:25Robert Evans?

  You love the Sniffy's Cruising Confessions podcast, but you've got questions. Don't worry, everybody does. To answer them, hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson-Rasso just dropped a new bonus series, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions: Bedside Manor. For all your burning questions, the guys turn to the experts, including Dr. Dimitri Duskalakis, an infectious disease doctor, public health honcho, and big-time advocate in LGBTQ+ health, HIV prevention, and health equity. Think of it as the after show to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, where the crew dives deep into topics and stories from that week's Tuesday episode. Episodes cover topics including testing and why are they swabbing there? Finding a doctor who's not so judgy? And so much more.

• 51:10Robert Evans?

  It's all about busting sexual health myths and helping listeners better understand the topics they may want to explore with their own doctors. Listen to this special bonus series, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions: Bedside Manor, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get podcasts. Sponsored by Healthy Sexual from Gilead Sciences.

• 51:32Robert Evans?

  And we're back. So my favorite story about Hastert's time as a state representative comes from that Chicago Tribune piece from 1999. He once had the State Department of Transportation place parking restrictions around an adult bookstore in his district to make it harder for patrons to park, though he quipped to a constituent that parking offenders may not even notice the signs, since it seems that patrons of the bookstore only want to read a certain kind of material.

• 52:00Robert Evans?

  Cool stuff. Anyway.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  Certain kind.

• 52:02Robert Evans?

  Yeah. When he campaigned for the state, I just also love the being anti-porn after like being a serial child molester. Yeah, that really scans. Yeah, yeah, very Republican.

• 52:11Speaker 01

  Well, it's all, because of course, everything's about their appearances and like.

• 52:15Robert Evans?

  Yeah. So it's not about actual harm to people. That doesn't matter.

• 52:19Speaker 01

  No, no, no. If anything, like, like, the, you know, the most consistent thing you can pray for is like, oh, I understand this person's self-hatred being projected outward.

• 52:28Robert Evans?

  Yeah.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  I think is just their, their principle in terms of the legislation.

• 52:32Robert Evans?

  Yeah, that, that makes sense.

• 52:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:35Robert Evans?

  When he campaigned for the State House, Dennis had promised to stay in the job as state representative for at least 10, ideally more like 15 years. He claimed it like, well, there'd been six representatives over the last 12 years and my voters want stability, right? So that's my job. If they elect me, I'll give them stability. But as soon as he's in office, he helps pass term limit legislation just in time to jump ship for a better opportunity after six years in office. Right? So again, I'm pro-term limits, but it's just very like scummy and self-serving pretty consistently. On January 27th, 1986, incumbent Republican representative for the Illinois 14th District, John Grothberg, who was in the process of running for reelection, fell into a coma while being treated for cancer.

• 53:19Robert Evans?

  Grothberg had been basically guaranteed to win against his Democratic opponent, the county coroner, Mary Lou Kearns, but his coma lasted for months and the party waited with bated breath to see if he'd recover and drop out or try to like run somehow, right? Like this coma lasts, I forget how long, but it lasts a while. And people are like, well, what do we do? And his family and his assistants are like, no, he's gonna be fine. He's gonna be fine. Oh, John's gonna beat this.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  Okay, Elaine Chow. Yeah, for sure.

• 53:44Robert Evans?

  Yeah. Well, this is all going down. Kearns wins her primary and starts campaigning against a basically dead Grothberg. Now, while Grothberg's people are like, he's gonna snap out of it. Ingamson, who was again, the guy who like helped get Hastert into the state role that he has, gathers a small group of people together to work out a plan to deal with reality. Hastert is one member of this small group, and it's decided by Ingamson that Hastert will take over for Grothberg. Grothberg resigned on May 22nd, but Hastert still had several GOP opponents, the most serious of which was a lawyer named Tom Johnson. So Ingamson and a bunch of people back, and Hastert probably has the most backing, but once Grothberg's out, a lot of other Republicans are like, well, I think I could be, you know, in Congress.

• 54:29Robert Evans?

  A dirty tricks campaign gets cooked up by Hastert and his backers to fight Tom Johnson. They had Jill Zwick, a Republican state representative, write a letter depicting Johnson as a religious zealot enthralled to the Moral Majority who held bizarre beliefs. She called him a radical, right-wing, fundamentalist Christian. I showed you how different the parties are then. It's like, this is how he attacks a guy to his right?

• 54:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. Beware the radical Christian.

• 54:54Robert Evans?

  Beware the radical Christian. You don't want them. And Hastert's like, that's not me. I mean, the Moral Majority gave me a perfect rating, but I'm a compassionate conservative. I'm not like a right-wing fundamentalist. I'm a compassionate conservative. And he won. The next step was to run against Kearns, his Democrat competitor. Per the Chicago Tribune, in an attempt to rally his fractured party, Hastert laid claim to the mantle of Ronald Reagan, declaring at a Washington DC press conference that his campaign was "really the last time voters will get to vote for the Reagan agenda." Back home, his campaign sent precinct captains questions on which Reagan's name was misspelled.

• 55:30Robert Evans?

  Real ChatGPT vibes from 1986.

• 55:33Speaker 01

  R A Y G U N?

• 55:36Robert Evans?

  Yeah. I really wanna know how they spelled that. In September of 1986, Kearns was campaigning at Northern Illinois University when she encountered a student in the crowd, a young man who accused her of destroying his family. It turned out that in 1978, she'd gotten engaged to a man who against, like she did not know, had not yet divorced his first wife, who was this boy's father. And that guy may have just come up to her genuinely because he was pissed, but Hastert's campaign seizes on this moment, and they send an anonymous mailer to 10,000 voters repeating the claims this kid had made about Kearns that she's a home wrecker. Right? And this seems to work. Dennis wins by fewer than 7,000 votes. So it's like not a blowout election, right? So this may have shifted it, right?

• 56:22Robert Evans?

  Yeah, but he wins, and he is now going to be in Congress in 1987. He will be the state representative, or he will be the representative from Illinois's 14th District in, in the United States Congress. So we'll talk about that and what kind of things old Denny gets up to once he's in Congress. Because if you thought, I mean, everything we've talked about today was really bad, but it's, I mean, he just, what he's done in this episode is the most like morally, directly bad, like the most individual like cruelty that he's like expressed to a person, but he's gonna hurt more people in Congress, right? As a result of his being a congressman.

• 57:03Robert Evans?

  Yeah, we'll talk about that and so much more in part two. Miles, you got anything to plug up in the P-zone before we roll out of here?

• 57:11Speaker 01

  Just everything I said in the beginning. Check out Ain't It Footy, where we're talking about my favorite sport, my favorite sport, soccer, and you know the rest.

• 57:20Speaker 02

  Go Arsenal!

• 57:22Speaker 01

  Hey, Daily Zeitgeist and 420 Day Fiance.

• 57:24Robert Evans?

  I love sockers. Yeah.

• 57:26Speaker 01

  There you go. Sock 'em up.

• 57:27Robert Evans?

  Yeah. Sock 'em up. All right.

• 57:29Speaker 02

  Listen to Knowledge Fight Country, the newest podcast on CCM.

• 57:33Robert Evans?

  Yeah, listen to Knowledge Fight Country. We've got a new show. Yeah, there you go. Bye now.

• 57:38Speaker 02

  Bye.

• 57:42Speaker 02

  Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Full video episodes of Behind the Bastards are now streaming on Netflix, dropping every Tuesday and Thursday. Hit "Remind Me" on Netflix so you don't miss an episode. For clips and our older episode catalog, continue to subscribe to our YouTube channel, youtube.com/bbehindthebastards. We love about 40% of you, statistically speaking.

• 58:16Speaker 07

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 58:47Speaker 01

  If you're a fight fan and you haven't seen the BKFC app yet, you're missing the world's most exciting combat sport. Bare Knuckle Fighting Championship has changed the game. No gloves, no stalling, no boring rolling around on the ground, just pure violence and pure entertainment. The BKFC app includes live events, past fights, original series, behind-the-scenes access, merch discounts, and more. Only $7.99 a month, or $49.99 a year. Get the BKFC app at BKFC.com.

• 59:17Speaker 07

  Having peace of mind for your home and connected life is more important than ever. That's why Xfinity Shield has built-in Wi-Fi features like Xfinity Cyber Secure, which provides protection against online threats and risky sites for every device. Plus, you can lock in one Wi-Fi price for five years, guaranteed. It's added peace of mind so you can stream more of your favorite podcasts on iHeart Radio. Get it now at Xfinity.com/Shield. Xfinity. Imagine that. Restrictions apply. Not available in all areas. Five-year guarantee with select plans only. Xfinity gateway required.

• 59:47Speaker 05

  Hear every word and feel every beat with VIZIO's powerful and immersive soundbar lineup. Whether it's a streamlined, all-in-one, flexible surround sound with the 4.1 Pro Wireless, or pure cinematic surround sound and thunderous bass with the 5.1 Wireless Soundbar, VIZIO has the perfect fit for any room and any setup. Blast your favorite tunes and podcasts with the iHeart Radio app and hear every beat like you're sitting front row. Upgrading your entertainment has never been easier. Discover VIZIO's full soundbar collection at Walmart or walmart.com today.

• 1:00:18Speaker 03

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.