How The FBI Botched The Olympic Park Bombing

Robert begins our series of episodes about two of the most infamous fuck ups in US law enforcement history, starting with the Atlanta Olympic Park Bombing. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Robert Evans?

  Oh, boy. It's Behind the Bastards, the podcast that you listen to if you're listening to it. If you don't listen to it, then you don't know what I'm saying. So, you know what? I hate you. But I don't hate my guest for this episode, Courtney Kosak. Courtney.

• 0:21Speaker 01

  Hello.

• 0:22Robert Evans?

  How you doing?

• 0:23Speaker 01

  So good to see you again.

• 0:25Robert Evans?

  Good to see you again. How have you been since last we, uh, last we talked about somebody who was really bad?

• 0:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, um, lots of bad people that I hear about every day in the news, but I have been like, deep into working on my book, which is just full of people from my past. So.

• 0:45Robert Evans?

  Oh.

• 0:45Speaker 01

  That's what I've been working on.

• 0:46Robert Evans?

  Hopefully not the worst people in all of history.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  Only a few, only a few.

• 0:51Robert Evans?

  I mean, you did have that longtime friendship with Muammar Gaddafi, but, you know, tragically, that ended badly. Um, we all did. Look, he was cool at one point in time. He was not. Um, so Courtney, you got something to plug? You wanna, you wanna drop that before we get into our, our bastard for this episode? Because we got a weird one for you this week.

• 1:12Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, I just wanna, my, my book is called Girl Gone Wild. It is my coming of age memoir. It's my debut. Um, yeah, I'm so tempted to just ask you a million questions about your book writing process, but we'll save that for another podcast.

• 1:26Robert Evans?

  Bad.

• 1:27Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, I'm just so excited that it's gonna be out in March. It's available for preorder and it's all thrilling.

• 1:36Robert Evans?

  Yeah, Courtney, uh, so, speaking of my process, my process for writing a book is mostly to get delayed writing that book so I can continue writing podcasts. And this week, the podcast that I have written in lieu of finishing my book, uh, is about, this is a weird one, right? This is normally a podcast about the worst people in all of history, and we have a bastard for this week. And our bastard for this week is a really interesting guy. His name is Steve Hatfield, uh, and he was recently made special advisor to the Trump administration for pandemic preparedness. He has some relevant background here. He spent most of his career as a pathologist and a biological weapons expert,

• 2:17Robert Evans?

  training US soldiers in how to deal with biological weapons, specifically weaponized viruses. And like a lot of people in Trump world, he's recently gotten into what we might call the alt-science side of medicine. In 2020, he advised the first Trump administration on COVID-19 and became a major advocate of hydroxychloroquine as a treatment. Yeah, he's one of those guys.

• 2:41Robert Evans?

  And in an article a couple of years ago, The Washington Post cited his statements as evidence supporting the idea that the Trump administration neglected pandemic response after losing the 2020 election. Quote, "Stephen Hatfield, a virologist who advised White House Trade Advisor Peter Navarro, said he was intimately involved in the pandemic response, repeatedly described in the emails how 'election stuff' took precedence over coronavirus, even as the outbreak surged to more than 250,000 new coronavirus cases per day in January. 'Now with the election so close, COVID is taking a backseat, yet the disease is rearing its ugly head again,' Hatfield wrote to an outside colleague in October of 2020. Following the election, which was disputed by Trump, Hatfield wrote another email that he personally shifted over to the election fraud investigation in November."

• 3:23Robert Evans?

  Which says a lot about like, the how the people close to Trump view themselves, where it's like, "Well, I'm a virologist and a pathologist, but I'll get involved in the election fraud, so I guess that makes sense for me to be working on during a pandemic more than the pandemic, right?"

• 3:38Speaker 01

  The priority. I can't believe that's the priority.

• 3:41Robert Evans?

  Everybody's focusing on the election now. I don't care that you're the virus guy and there's a virus. Get on the election shit.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  All hands on deck, yeah.

• 3:50Robert Evans?

  And true, true to form, during that brief window, Hatfield traveled to Arizona to help organize a Plan B for Trump's legal fight to retain the presidency. When a colleague emailed him on January 5th to ask why he wasn't fixing the virus, he replied that the "election thing" had gotten out of control and "I go where my team goes", which at that point was to contest results in Nevada. Now, when it comes to this stuff, I have no trouble condemning Hatfield. I don't like him. I think he's a bad person. I think he's done bad things for the world. Here's where it gets weird. He's kind of the protagonist of our story this week, right? Because this is, we're going to be telling a story, and we're going to be telling two stories,

• 4:31Robert Evans?

  really. And in both of these stories, the bad guy is the FBI and in more broadly, our entire justice system, right? And the media, and how the media interacts with the justice system around high-profile cases, you know, when people are desperately, desperately trying to figure out who did it. And at a point at which, you know, the cops decide, literally, we need to throw some name out there. And the media decides, "Count it, count it, count it," right? Like, that's the evil here. We're talking about two different terrorist attacks, where innocent people were accused by both law enforcement and journalists of having done terrible things. And Hatfield is one of those innocent people. So he's like a bad person, but he's also really unique among members of the Trump

• 5:15Robert Evans?

  administration in that all of them hate the media. Hatfield is a really good reason to hate the mainstream media. They did him so fucking dirty. And it's, it's a very weird story for that reason.

• 5:27Speaker 01

  In this situation, they did him so dirty that we're about to talk about?

• 5:30Robert Evans?

  Absolutely, absolutely. Completely destroyed his life for years for no reason. Like, just based purely on bad police work and lazy reporting. Like, that's, that's, that's what happened here. And so kind of what we're talking about, in addition to, the justice system sure doesn't work very well, does it? Cops aren't very good at their jobs, are they? We're also telling a story of, this is how law enforcement and the media, kind of feeding off of each other, created a monster. Because the present-day Stephen Hatfield, who was a member of the Trump administration... Is created to a significant extent by how much this destroys his life and pisses him off. Like, this really radicalizes him in a major way.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  No.

• 6:17Robert Evans?

  And so it's interesting to understand for that perspective, too, because we are talking about a bad guy, but he's not the bad guy in the story we're telling, which I haven't done before. So I'm excited for this kind of episode.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  I am so conflicted. I feel like you're doing me dirty a little bit. You're like, no, the Trump guy is the good guy.

• 6:36Robert Evans?

  He's not the good guy. Let's be really clear. Protagonist, right?

• 6:39Speaker 01

  The less bad protagonist.

• 6:42Robert Evans?

  But he's not the wronged person in his story. But we are telling two stories. And basically, this week, we're going to be talking about, first, the Olympic Park bombing, which occurred at the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta, Georgia. And we're talking about the man who was wrongfully blamed for that attack and how that happened. And then, and this is where Hatfield comes in, we're going to be talking about the 2001 anthrax attacks in the United States after 9/11, because Hatfield is the guy who gets blamed for that, right? And so that's what we're talking about this week, is how both of the, because these are both similar cases, and they are emblematic of similar problems that still exist within law enforcement and the media to this day, right? So that's what we're talking about.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  Ooh, I'm on the edge of my seat. Let's do it.

• 7:28Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah, this will be fun.

• 7:32Robert Evans?

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• 9:41Robert Evans?

  So, for our first, again, I just started by talking about Hat Phil. We're not going to talk about him anymore in this episode because the guy who gets wrongfully accused of the Olympic Park bombings is not Steve Hat Phil. He is a guy who was a cop for a brief span of time, although not, he was not really a cop either. Like, he's, we'll talk, he's a wannabe cop who gets to be it briefly and then is a security guard at the time all this happens, when he actually does some, an act of legitimate heroism. And his name was Richard Jewell. Uh, Richard Allensworth Jewell was born Richard White on December 17th, 1962 in Danville, Virginia. His father worked at Chevy and his mom helped, uh, she was like an insurance

• 10:23Robert Evans?

  claim adjuster type person. She had some job in that whole, I don't think she was an adjuster, but she was involved in the whole insurance claim thing, something to do with insurance. I don't know. You don't come to this to hear about what people's moms did for the insurance industry. Um, they divorced when he was four and she remarried a guy named John Jewell, who adopted Richard and that's why he's known as Richard Jewell. Most of his life is not very interesting. The most important thing to know about Richard Jewell, Sophie will pull up a picture of him. This guy is like, his phenotype is cop, right? Like, he, he was born with cop in his blood. Like, you just take one look at this man, he grows the kind of mustache that if you're like, if you're biologically a cop, your body just

• 11:06Robert Evans?

  produces that mustache, right? Like, I don't know that he ever had a choice in not wanting to be a cop. Like, in terms of his character and personality, that's what he always wanted to be. For the time he's a child, Richard idolizes the police. This is the only job he wants to do, right? You're looking at the picture, like, that, that is a cop mustache, right? There's just simply no other way to describe it.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  He's like a Chicago cop.

• 11:28Robert Evans?

  He's like, yes, yes. Strong Chicago cop vibes. That's what he was born to do and he's never gonna quite get there, tragically for Richard. Um, so he idolizes the police. This is the only job he ever wants. He's one of these people who grows up believing the police are heroes, surrounded on all sides by dangerous criminals, holding up society and protecting the innocents through sheer force of will and commitment to the law. So, you know, he's pretty propagandized, right? Like, like a lot of us were his kids. Um, and when he grows up, uh, you know, he doesn't immediately get into law enforcement. His first job, I think, is working at and eventually managing a TCBY yogurt shop. But he shows

• 12:11Robert Evans?

  some promise that like, oh, maybe this guy, you know, maybe this law enforcement's what he's actually going to do. Because while a manager of the store, he stops a robbery in progress, which you're not supposed To do when managing a retail store. Um, or a food store. You're not supposed to do that in any store. Stop a robbery, but he does. Um, I don't have any more details than that, but it gets him written up in local papers and it fuels his desire to get behind a badge. He's like, oh man, this is what I'm made for. Like, look at what I was able to do behind the desk at a TCBY treats shop.

• 12:44Robert Evans?

  Give me a gun and a badge. I'll really fuck some shit up.

• 12:46Speaker 01

  If I can do this with ice cream, you, you gotta wait and see what I got.

• 12:51Robert Evans?

  Yeah, exactly. It's amazing. They didn't just hand him a gun and a badge right then and there.

• 12:55Speaker 01

  Didn't, didn't Clint Eastwood make a movie about this guy?

• 12:58Robert Evans?

  Yes, he did. Yes, he did.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 13:00Robert Evans?

  Um, and we'll talk about that because it's gross.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:03Robert Evans?

  When he's 22, Jewel got hired to clerk for the Small Business Association, where he met and befriended a lawyer named Watson Bryant. Uh, he's good at the job, uh, and he earns a reputation for being always on the ball. He's very on time. He's very outgoing, always puts in a hundred and 10%. But he got placed there through a temp agency. And when the contract ran up, he took a job that brought him closer to his dream career. Working as a detective for the Marriott hotel chain. I did not realize, I thought that was a joke in American Dad. I didn't know hotels had detectives, but apparently they do.

• 13:37Speaker 01

  That's the perfect job really for him. He should have kind of stopped there, I think.

• 13:41Robert Evans?

  I don't want to be mean to the hotel detectives at the world, but imagine going out on a date and like, so what do you feel like, well, I'm a hotel detective. Hotel detective, huh? Are you like trying to figure out like what the stain was on the mattress?

• 13:54Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 13:55Robert Evans?

  Like, it's come.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  With the black light?

• 14:00Robert Evans?

  Just looking it up, just walking into everyone with a black light going, yep. Yeah, uh huh. Yep. More, more people coming.

• 14:06Speaker 01

  Same.

• 14:06Robert Evans?

  Every day. Uh, I think somebody did cocaine off that table, maybe. I don't know. Could be more come. In 1990, he gets hired as a jailer for the Haversham County Sheriff's Office, right? Now, this is kind of a do nothing job. You're sitting in a small smoke filled room, occasionally dealing with arrestees. It's not what he wants to be doing. He doesn't like it, but it's his foot in the door and. I guess in the 90s, it was maybe there were enough that cops weren't like today, you would just find some police department in a big city that is offering like $20,000 signing bonuses because there's not enough cops because people don't want to do that job anymore. But I guess back then you had to really like work your way up to being a cop, right?

• 14:51Speaker 01

  Oh, that's interesting.

• 14:51Robert Evans?

  For whatever reason, I don't know. Maybe it's just where he lives in Georgia, or maybe he's just not, doesn't, I don't know, maybe he doesn't go, maybe there was an easier way to do it that he just didn't do.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  He's a bad strategist.

• 15:03Robert Evans?

  I don't know. But yeah, he, he becomes a cop through working at the jail, right? Like, he does this for like, a year or so. And it's, it's one of the, you can tell it's frustrating him because like, working at the jail, he's almost a real cop. He could like, he could taste it, right? He could taste the authority. And so he starts to get over eager. One of my sources for this episode is an epic long form article in Vanity Fair by Marie Britter, and she writes, this is while he's, he's still a jailer, quote, "He arrested a couple making too much noise in a hot tub in an apartment building where he did part-time security work. He was arrested for impersonating an officer and, after pleading guilty to a lesser charge, was placed on probation on the condition that he seeks psychological counseling."

• 15:45Robert Evans?

  So you get that like, this guy wants to be a cop so bad, it's kind of a problem. Like, man.

• 15:50Speaker 01

  It's turning him into a peeping Tom.

• 15:52Robert Evans?

  First off, cops generally don't arrest people for being noisy in a hot tub. Even a cop is usually going to be like, hey, we got a noise complaint. Chill out, right? Like, this guy are just like busting in and arresting people? You have to imagine he had an illegally carried gun on him, that he was just like, these hot tub guys pull something on me, I'm just gonna blast them. We're being a little mean to Richard here. He is legitimately a hero in the end. But like, this is funny. I'm sorry. This is just, this is just funny, Richard. This was a stupid thing that you did. He's dead now. He's fine. He doesn't care. So if a guy is so eager to be a cop, that the instant he gets a job, sitting in the same room as a cop, he illegally arrests a couple for a noise

• 16:35Robert Evans?

  complaint, that might be a warning sign not to give that person a badge and gun. But somehow, Juul worked his way up to being hired as a deputy in 1991.

• 16:45Speaker 01

  That's so fucking America. I love it.

• 16:48Robert Evans?

  Let's go. It's one of those, yeah, well, he goes to Northeast Georgia Political Academy. He does well. He graduates in the upper 25% of the class. He's, he said that he read the Georgia legal code for fun. Like, he's obsessed with cop stuff. So I have no doubt that when it came to the in-class portions of it, he was right. He aced everything, right? Like, he's been, he's been prepped for this forever.

• 17:10Speaker 01

  I don't know how he did the obstacle course.

• 17:13Robert Evans?

  That might have been harder for him, although this is Georgia, you know? We're not talking about a lot of cops who are like fucking superstar athletes in a rural Georgia sheriff's department.

• 17:27Robert Evans?

  So he becomes a real cop. He's now has a real badge and a real gun, and he is ready to get out there and fight crime. Alas, poor Richard is about to run face to face into a reality that it's, I don't know if he ever really fully accepts it, right? But this is like the great tragedy of Richard Jewell's life, which is that he wants to be a cop. And I say this as a guy who doesn't want there to be cops. He wants to be a cop for what you would say are the right reasons. He cares deeply about the law. He thinks it is important to abide by the law, and he wants to protect people.

• 18:02Speaker 01

  Check, check, check.

• 18:03Robert Evans?

  That's why he wants to become a cop. Police, now, now, and I, this is not me, the left-wing radical saying this. The Supreme Court has ruled, police have no duty to protect people. And it is a fact, an undeniable fact, that police all over the country break the law regularly, both in pursuing suspects and lying on the stand about them and falsifying evidence and planting evidence and using physical force that they are not legally supposed to be using. Cops break the law constantly. They are not there to protect people, and they do not uphold the law. These are facts, right?

• 18:43Speaker 01

  Robert, did you ever have, in your, like, young Republican days? Did you ever, did you think ops were good? I'm just curious.

• 18:50Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I, I, I wanted to be a cop when I was a kid, right?

• 18:54Speaker 01

  Really?

• 18:54Robert Evans?

  And I wanted to be a cop for the worst possible reason, because at 18, if you become a cop, you get to carry a gun while off duty. And normally it take, you have to wait until you're 21 to carry a gun, which is the wrong reason to become a cop, right? That's why you shouldn't let 18-year-olds become cops, which they almost did.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  You'd be the biggest crime committing cop we know.

• 19:15Robert Evans?

  And when I was, when I wanted to be a cop, which is again, when I was like 18, 19, part of why it was possible for me to have become one is that Dallas had just had to can a shitload of officers over a massive fake drug scandal. So like recruitment was down and they were desperate for people, right?

• 19:32Speaker 01

  You could have had a totally different life.

• 19:34Robert Evans?

  Yeah, I don't think I would have made it long. Cause like literally within like a month or two of making my first calls to the police and like setting up that, starting that process, I started experimenting with drugs. And as soon as I took 2CI, I was like, oh, I'm not gonna be a cop. Oh, what the fuck was I thinking? Absolutely not. Are you kidding me? No, no, no, no, no. No, no, I wanna do drugs. That sounds way better than being a cop. And it was for about 10 years and then at a certain point, you have to do less drugs.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  Heard, yeah.

• 20:07Robert Evans?

  That's, that's my, that's my, my dare class for kids. Kids, I'm looking, I'm looking at this room, seeing a lot of 17 and 18-year-olds. You guys got a solid 12 years before you gotta curtail your drug use, you know? So really enjoy this time, you know, test everything for fentanyl, but other than that, go wild, you know, whatever you can fit in your body, throw it in there. Don't ask questions, just do it and run off into the sunset. It'll be great when you're 29, maybe start, start, uh, start pulling back on that throttle, you know?

• 20:36Speaker 01

  Jesus Christ, Robert.

• 20:38Robert Evans?

  Hit the brakes. What?

• 20:39Speaker 01

  Jesus Christ.

• 20:41Robert Evans?

  I always give our child listeners good advice.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  No trank, no fentanyl, no trank.

• 20:45Robert Evans?

  No fentanyl, no trank. Maybe try crocodile. If you get a chance to try that weird Russian drug that melts your skin, try that shit, you know, it sounds dope. I never got to do crocodile. I regret it now that I'm in my sober era.

• 20:59Robert Evans?

  Gas station sober. And maybe they'll make gas station crocodile. Anyway,

• 21:04Robert Evans?

  we were talking about how cops break the law a lot. And Anyways. Again, I have my opinions on this that are grounded in fact, but I also want to like cite facts. And if I make a statement like cops break the law constantly. So a 2016 study by researchers at Bowling Green University looked into nearly 7,000 cases of police officers being arrested and charged with crimes between 2005 and 2011. They concluded, quote, "Police crimes are not uncommon." Now, one of the things this study notes is that only about 1,000 officers are arrested each year and charged with crimes. But there are a lot more cops than that commit. Number one, cops, it's very easy for them to get away with crimes. The number of cops who could break the law and don't get caught because they're cops

• 21:49Robert Evans?

  is exponentially higher than 1,000. But there's also a lot of cases, and there's documentation of how often there's interviews with other cops that'll talk about this, of police breaking the law and having it swept under the rug, right? Well, they'll get a warning from, you know, maybe someone above them or something. But like, look, you know, just get your car home. I know you're drunk tonight because you're another officer. I'll let you off, you know, as a professional courtesy, you know, We gotta protect our own. Yeah. Again, there's data on this. It happens constantly. That said, the data on when cops do actually fuck up enough to get charged with crimes, the data on what crimes they commit is really interesting. From a summary in a Huffington Post article by Matt Ferner, quote, "The alleged crimes cops were arrested for most frequently were simple assault, driving

• 22:32Robert Evans?

  under the influence, and aggravated assault. Altogether, those crimes made up one-third of the total cases. There were also a considerable number of sex crime cases, including forcible fondling and forcible rape, about 10% of all cases. And disturbingly, the sex crimes included some victims under the age of 18." If you are looking at the vast majority of child sex abuse is people who are related to the child. When you move out from people who are directly related to the child, the most common people to abuse kids are like members of the clergy, medical professionals, and police officers. Not in that order necessarily. But yes. Because they have access and because they have, you know, yeah.

• 23:10Speaker 01

  So, so wait, sex crimes and what was the first thing you said?

• 23:13Robert Evans?

  Oh, driving under the influence. Cops drive drunk all the fucking time.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:16Robert Evans?

  And simple assault, just hitting, beating people, beating spouses, you know, 50% of police officer homes have domestic violence in them.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  Do you remember that South Dakota, was he a cop or a politician?

• 23:26Robert Evans?

  40%, something like that. Uh, which one?

• 23:30Speaker 01

  The, just a couple of years ago, but he fucking killed a guy and then drove home and they, they, I mean, I think he got away with it.

• 23:38Robert Evans?

  Well, good for him, you know, we all, we all would hope to be able to get away with at least one murder in our lives. I can't blame a man for that, for just wanting to kill a guy and get away with it. Most cop, most, most normal thing to want.

• 23:51Robert Evans?

  I don't know why I said that. So the most common crime committed by police is also the one they get arrested for the least often, which is lying under oath. This is so common that cops have a term for it called testa lying. And if you know, I have a friend who became a lawyer and was briefly a prosecutor and stopped being a prosecutor because he was like, I just kept going. I kept sitting down with police officers and saying, are you sure this is accurate? And then when it came to trial, it would be like, they lied, right? Like that happened, that happened so many times that I like put my ass out there as a prosecutor because a cop told me, no, this is definitely what happened. And they were fucking lying. It happens all the goddamn time.

• 24:31Robert Evans?

  And again, there's documentation about this. This is such a problem that in New York City prosecutors have a secret database of untrustworthy cops. Again, a secret database of cops that like, yeah, we, if you're a prosecutor, don't let this guy up on the stand. If he's telling you something, it's like full of shit, but also we're not going to report this anywhere more broadly. In the 1990s, the Mollin Commission carried out a sweeping investigation of the NYPD and it found that perjury and falsification of records were routine by police. And quote, "the most common form of police corruption." You might want to note that those two crimes tend to be committed in order to get a conviction against a defendant, right? If you are lying under oath and falsifying records, the most likely reason you're doing

• 25:15Robert Evans?

  that is because there was a crime and you're pretty sure the guy you got did it, but you can't prove it, so you're lying to make it easier to secure a conviction, right? Or you don't know the guy did it, or think the guy did it, you just hate him because you're a bigot, or you want to fuck his wife, or whatever, right? And you're doing that, you know? But the most common crime committed by cops all over is lying under oath and falsifying records, and that, those two things are generally done to get people convicted, right? Cops lie to get convictions.

• 25:49Speaker 01

  I love how we go around saying like, lying under oath is a felony, like stealing mail is a felony. It's like, no, you can totally do those things.

• 25:58Robert Evans?

  No, I steal mail all the time, baby. But I don't keep it for myself. I hand it out to other people who don't have enough mail.

• 26:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:07Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. I take mail from those, from, it's like, it's me living out my Marxist praxis, you know? From each, according to their ability to have a lot of mail in their mailbox, to those without as much mail in their mailbox. I think that's what Marx was talking about. I didn't make it all the way through capital. I, I, I go through all this, this is a bit of a digression from Richard Jewell, but it's important to note that the vast majority of criminal behavior inside our justice system is perpetrated by police officers, and not just police officers, but by people who are in the justice system, who are attempting to get convictions and have to futz with the truth in order to secure conviction, because the actual evidence isn't strong enough, right? That's an important point, and I know this has been a long digression, but I need to emphasize it a little further.

• 26:52Robert Evans?

  So I'm going to read one quote from a very good Slate article by Mark Stern titled, "The Police Lie All The Time: Can Anything Stop Them?" Quote, "When NYPD officers are accused of illegal behavior, the department itself usually investigates, then conceals its findings and imposes at worst a slap on the wrist, like brief paid leave. Prosecutors could separately investigate, but they..." They have little incentive to question an officer's story. If they know an officer is lying, they cannot legally rely on his testimony. If they remain in the dark, they can still use his perjury to clinch a conviction. Moreover, prosecutors and police work together to put defendants behind bars, developing a team mentality that prevents prosecutors from scrutinizing officers' testimony with appropriate skepticism. As long as officers' lies cannot be proved false, prosecutors have little reason to

• 27:36Robert Evans?

  question their account of events. As a New York assistant district attorney told the Mullen Commission, "Taking money is considered dirty, but perjury for the sake of an arrest is accepted. It's become more casual."

• 27:47Speaker 01

  Great.

• 27:48Robert Evans?

  This takes us to Richard Jewell, but first, you know what Richard Jewell would have loved if he were alive to see this?

• 27:54Speaker 01

  Ads?

• 27:55Robert Evans?

  He would have loved ads supporting podcasts. That would have been, that would have been Richard Jewell's favorite thing. Oh, tragic.

• 28:06Robert Evans?

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• 28:30Speaker 04

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• 29:05Robert Evans?

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• 29:46Robert Evans?

  We're back and we're talking about police officers lying under oath in order to secure arrests and convictions. Right. And Richard Jewell, I tell, I've just told you, this guy wants to be a cop more than anything. He idolizes cops. He is not the kind of guy, I don't think, who would have lied to get an arrest or to get a conviction. He does, he is a true believer, right? And that's going to cause him problems, right? Cause and I'm not saying this to I like, I don't think he's a, he's not a person I would consider. I don't consider his ethics to be ethical, right? Like, I don't think it's ethical to arrest people for making noise in a hot tub, right? Right. And he's very serious about a lot of stuff that I don't agree with, but he's consistent. He's internally consistent.

• 30:31Robert Evans?

  He does believe in the law and he's not a liar, right? He's a very, he described himself as a very methodical person. He liked to plan out everything. He read the Georgia legal code for fun and he's not going to fit in with the sheriff's department. Because he wants to be a good cop and they have a very different idea about what a good cop is. Right? He described the rural county he worked in as like going into back into the seventies in terms of law enforcement. In other words, this is a place where there's good old boys who enjoy limited immunity to crimes. And there's other people, skin color dependent, who are, you're much more free to harass or hassle. Right? And that's not the kind of cop Jewell wants to be, right? If this were, he's kind of like Sergeant Nicholas Angel in Hot Fuzz, right?

• 31:16Robert Evans?

  Where he's like. He's too good for the rest of the department, except he's not very good at the job either, right? Like, he has really good and very strict intentions, but he's not like the most competent at police work, and he's also pissing everyone off because he takes a lot of stuff seriously that they don't take seriously. And he doesn't like it when other people are kind of more loosey goosey with the rules. So he gets sidelined mostly into dealing with car accidents, right? Because that's the part of the job he does well, and nobody else really wants to do it. He works really hard. He puts in 14-hour days. He volunteers to host community events. He's the cop that they'll, he'll go talk to a school or whatever. Like,

• 31:59Robert Evans?

  he loves doing that kind of shit. But his fellow officers are kind of just, after they get to know him, waiting for an excuse to shitcan him and get him off of the force, right? Because, again, he's, he's kind of cramping their style. And he's attempting to, the story he tells is that he was trying to pursue someone, and he crashes his police car in 1995, and that's the chance these people had been waiting for, right? So he is demoted. He loses his badge. He's offered to stay working at the jail, but Richard is unwilling to return to that kind of life. So he resigns from the force, and he gets the kind of job that you get when you're a failed cop. He becomes a campus cop, right?

• 32:40Speaker 01

  Perfect.

• 32:41Robert Evans?

  Ah, yeah, that's the, it's the circle of cop. So Piedmont College hires him, and he immediately gets a reputation. Again, he's, he's super diligent. Like, he, he will absolutely write people up for every infraction he sees, and he will pursue the kind of infractions, you know, college, campus cops. Generally, you understand, like, at certain times and stuff, people are gonna party, there's gonna be underage drinking, and you don't always go after that, right? Because, like, for one thing, it's kind of impossible to police at all. So you, you, you kind of triage that sort of shit, right? Richard can't stand any kind of violation of the rules. And so he goes after kids whenever he sees any kind of infraction. He's issuing tickets. He's trying to arrest

• 33:24Robert Evans?

  people. He is very aggressive about this, to the point that the- President of the college gets calls three or four times a week from different people complaining to him about Jules behavior. Right? Like, he thinks my job is to be a cop. And the real job is to basically be a babysitter and make sure kids don't die.

• 33:43Speaker 01

  Right? Yeah, that they don't hurt themselves. I'm sure they love to fuck with him, though. Oh, my God. He's like the dream.

• 33:50Robert Evans?

  Absolutely. And again, he does sound like the most annoying campus cop. And it was during the camp, his campus cop days that Richard would notch his one real victory in the war on crime. During a manhunt for a suspected burglar, he spotted the culprit hiding near the top of a tree. Writing for Vanity Fair, Marie Brenner notes that Jules had arguments over turf with other officers. He described himself as the kind of cop who was eager to track down people partying after hours and call their parents.

• 34:17Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 34:18Robert Evans?

  Obsessed. Yeah, this all clashes with what his employers want him to do. The president of the university repeatedly begs him, hey, man, calm the fuck down. Like, ease up. This is not what we want you doing. And Richard refuses to bend. So he resigns rather than accept that some kids are going to drink on campus and maybe you need to chill out. Right?

• 34:39Robert Evans?

  So once this job falls through, he finds himself back in Atlanta, looking for a new job and living with his mother. Now, because of the way this all timed out, the Olympics is coming to town, right? This is the Atlanta Olympics. I don't know why the fuck you'd want to hold an Olympics in a city that is, has such nightmarish summer weather and horrible traffic. But they only host cities in places with horrible traffic. Or host Olympics in places with horrible traffic, which is why they're doing it in LA next. Maybe the only city worse than Atlanta to do the Olympics in. So good fucking luck, you Olympic dipshits. I hope you enjoy it.

• 35:15Speaker 01

  I remember watching this one. Great gymnastics.

• 35:18Robert Evans?

  Yeah, great gymnastics, great terrorism, all sorts of good stuff in this Olympics. So Richard is excited for the Olympics because, you know, they're a disaster for any city's economy, right? They never really work out very well in the long run. But in the short term, they work out really well for one group of people, which is security guards, because you need a shitload. Security guards standing around all of these different venues and you know, areas of the city that have been like walled off for the event. And to tell people, hey, you can't be here or to help generally to help people like fight, figure out where they're supposed to go. Right? You're kind of glorified like a map a lot of the time. Yeah. Help desk is a security guard in this situation, but you need a lot of those guys, right? Cause it's the fucking Olympics.

• 36:02Robert Evans?

  So Jewel later recalled thinking, I thought working at the Centennial Olympic Park will look really good on my resume. I don't know that that's the case, but that's the kind of man Richard was. So he gets the job easily enough and he brings the same attitude to this next gig that he brought to his previous career as a real cop. And his actual job, as best as I can put it together, was to stand overnight by a sound and light tower near the main stage area. The people who'd planned for the Olympic, uh, Atlanta Olympics did a terrible job, as is always the case when people plan for an Olympics. And so the whole downtown area, the whole Olympic Park downtown, which is like 21 acres was constantly caught. It was a nightmare. Athletes are regularly late for their events because they just like can't get through this shit.

• 36:43Robert Evans?

  Almost nobody who's in this park is from Atlantis. They don't know where they're going anyway. And everything's like walled off and fenced off in a weird way. It's just a fucking Titanic mess. So his job is helping to manage foot traffic and help lost people get where they're going. Now Marie Brenner talked extensively with Richard Jewell for her piece. And he gives us, we, in some of these interviews, we get clips, like pieces of his day to day life that do not make this sound like a demanding job, right? This is on paper, supposed to be kind of a do nothing gig. Quote, Jewel had a routine. He would check in and fill the ice chest he kept by a bench at his station. Jewel liked to offer water and cokes to pregnant women or policemen who stopped to rest. Those are the two guys who deserve cokes. Pregnant women and cops.

• 37:29Speaker 01

  One of them probably shouldn't have cokes, but that's okay.

• 37:31Robert Evans?

  One of them probably shouldn't have a coke. I don't know. Fuck it. A little bit of, a little bit of caffeine. I think we get too, we're too protective of fetuses these days.

• 37:39Speaker 01

  I agree. I agree. Eat sushi, whatever. It doesn't matter.

• 37:42Robert Evans?

  Eat sushi, have some coffee, little bit of crack cocaine. Probably not bad for you. What?

• 37:48Speaker 01

  That's where we drop the line.

• 37:49Robert Evans?

  Just a little bit, a little bit. It's cleaner. As Hunter Biden reminded us all, it's cleaner than regular coke. It's basically like an apple. So very little is expected of Richard Jewell in his job as security guard. But as usual, he takes the job very seriously. This is one thing I'll say for him. He doesn't consider, and in a normal instance, maybe we'd call this sad, but he doesn't consider being a security guard to be any less serious than being a police officer, right? He treats the job the same way. And thank God he did, because he's going to save a shitload of people's lives. This is really like a wild moment of like, this guy, every other thing I also said about him is this is like the

• 38:31Robert Evans?

  fucking setup to a very depressing, not Adam Sandler, Rob Schneider movie, right? Or I guess Paul Blart Mall Cop might be a better fucking comparison or whatever. But like, it doesn't sound like we're setting up for this guy to have, be very impressive. But he is, because again, he treats this job like it's life and death, and it's about to be. A bit after midnight on July 27, 1996, Jewell is doing his rounds, and he notices that the people at Bud World, which I'm assuming was a pop-up bar sponsored by Budweiser, were getting kinda rowdy and loud. Now, I wanted to know what Bud World was. So in order, in an effort to do my due diligence, I Googled Bud World Olympics, which brought

• 39:16Robert Evans?

  up this television ad, which I'm just gonna get everybody so we can, before we move on here, everyone just needs a little hit of the 1990s. Just like, just like one quick dose, you know, just a little bump to get us through.

• 39:27Speaker 01

  Ooh, I can't wait.

• 39:30Speaker 06

  Okay, world, everyone's gotta add something to the party. Mexico, you've got the salsa. Tahiti, sunset, about two weeks worth. France, ooh la la, we'll get back to you, France. Greece, you're off the hook. You started the whole thing. Malaysia, yeah, some of those. Norway, you're in charge of the ice.

• 39:51Speaker 06

  Us, we got the Bud, the Bud World Party during the 96 Summer Games.

• 39:58Robert Evans?

  Ew.

• 39:59Speaker 01

  Everybody else has culture. We got beer.

• 40:01Robert Evans?

  Yeah. That was my question. It's like, who is this most racist to? Because weirdly enough, I think it's Americans.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:08Robert Evans?

  Where it's like, oh yeah, all these other cultures got there. I mean, I guess Norway is just being like ICE. That's kind of fucked up too.

• 40:18Robert Evans?

  Oh, the 90s. Okay. Now that we've all gotten that, that, that quick, quick, hot hit of the 90s, uh, let's get, let's get back to the terrorist attack that we're talking about. So Jewel, Richard Jewel, hears people getting drunk and rowdy at the Bud World event where you're supposed to get drunk and rowdy, right? And worse, he sees that people have spilled out of the event itself and there's like leaving beers on the ground and wandering around and, you know, being a problem. And him being the campus cop who got fired for being too angry at people partying, he leaps into action and he goes off to report the trash in the quote, "carousing." And this may be the only time in history where a rent-a-cop being overly a buzzkill

• 40:59Robert Evans?

  works out because on his way to report the not really a crime in progress, he notices something. Someone has left a green military-style backpack lying on the ground unattended. So, Richard reports the bag and a small team of law enforcement bears down on the area and they start looking around to try to find the bag's owner. In interviews after the fact, Jewel recalled that he didn't take this seriously at first. They'd found a similar unattended bag a few days ago and he expected this to end like that had, right? So as soon as he calls out the bag and, you know, cops start trying to figure out who the bag belongs to, he winds up in an argument with a group of drunk people who like smudged a camera lens.

• 41:41Robert Evans?

  And then he kind of realizes like they're not finding the owner of the bag. So he walks over to this GBI, the Georgia's Bureau of Investigation. It's like the state FBI for Georgia. And he asked the guy, "Are you gonna open it?" And then here's Jewel, quote, "At that point, it was not a concern. I was thinking to myself, well, I'm sure one of these people left it on the ground." When Davis, the GBI agent, came back and said, "Nobody said it was theirs." That's when the little hairs on the back of my head began to stand up. I thought, uh-oh, this is not good. So he and that agent clear a 25 foot square. They start getting people away. They're like, everyone needs to clear the area, clear the area. And they clear a 25 foot square around the bag.

• 42:18Speaker 01

  Nobody looks in the bag? Or like, that's,

• 42:20Robert Evans?

  No, I mean, you, you really, because who knows if that's what triggers it, right? If like, opening it or whatever would set, set it off or something?

• 42:28Speaker 01

  Right, okay.

• 42:28Robert Evans?

  You, you as a security guard and some random guy from the GBI shouldn't, like, obviously bomb people, but like, you don't, you don't want some guy who has no, no fucking idea what he's doing with explosives to look into that bag, right?

• 42:41Speaker 01

  I just don't, I look at a, I totally agree, but I don't look at a backpack and I'm like, bomb. But I guess in this situation, you have to. Yes.

• 42:48Robert Evans?

  Thank God he did, right? Like, yeah, it is. Like, this is one of those things where I have to say, nearly everyone would have just been like, it's just a fucking bag. But it wasn't. And Richard was in there right, you know? He was waiting his whole life of being like overly paranoid and, and fucking serious about shit for the one time in which it mattered and saved a shitload of people's lives. So he does a circle while they're clearing people, or he starts sticking his head in different structures in the park and basically saying, hey, get out of whatever, because there's, you know, there's different, like, you've got these like booths where people are like filming for different, and like yelling at people, get the fuck out now, get the fuck out now, right? And he deserves a lot of credit here. He flips from normal day wandering around angry at drunk people

• 43:32Robert Evans?

  to, I have to clear this area. Something really bad could be happening. And he does this before he knows there's a bomb there. He just, I think that it must just be instinct or whatever. But as a result, because of how many people he and this other guy Davis clear away, when the bomb goes off, and it's sometime after 1:00 in the morning, it's like a little after 1:00 AM, it, it doesn't harm nobody, right? But it harms only a fraction of the people who might otherwise have been present. Like, the, like, the, if the pipe bomb, if the area had been as crowded as it was supposed to be, I mean, it- Could have been a dozen or more people dead, like potentially dozens and dozens injured, you know, and like-

• 44:13Speaker 01

  How many people died?

• 44:15Robert Evans?

  Uh, two deaths, um, one directly and one indirectly and like 111 injuries. So if they hadn't cleared the area, it killed two people and injured more than 100 after they had cleared the area. If they hadn't cleared the area, if it was still full of drunk people and camera crews and the like, like-

• 44:34Speaker 01

  Limbs all over.

• 44:35Robert Evans?

  Just a nightmare. Like it, it would have been much worse. They saved a lot of people's lives, right? I, I mean, easily more than a dozen lives. I don't know how, it's impossible to say how many, but I, I would have been shocked if it had been, if it was any less than that, right? They, they, they, this really is a significant thing that Jewel does. And Jewel is-

• 44:54Speaker 01

  Good job, Jewel.

• 44:55Robert Evans?

  Jewel and this other guy Davis do, but Jewel is the guy who notices at first. Probably nobody would have picked it out if he hadn't, right? Cause this was his area and it was his job to be on guard and he was, right? Which kind of justifies his entire life up to this point, right? You know?

• 45:13Robert Evans?

  And that should be a happy story, right? This kind of hap- hapless, you know, guy who couldn't hack it as a cop, rent a cop, never got respect. He's finally a hero. He's legitimately a hero, right? They cleared an estimated 75 to 100 and P- uh, 100 people away from the area. So again, at least another 75 to 100 people would have been in the blast radius if they had not done what they did. Nancy Coleman for the New York Times writes, quote, "The pipe bomb inside the bag exploded minutes later. Alice S. Hawthorne, a spectator from Albany, Georgia, died in the blast. Milly Uzonyal, a Turkish cameraman running to cover the explosion, died of a heart attack soon after."

• 45:52Speaker 01

  Uh oh.

• 45:54Robert Evans?

  So again, and that's, you know, a death from a heart attack. So potentially assuming that hadn't happened, like you're talking one death directly from the explosion as opposed to an additional 75 to 100 people being in the blast radius, right?

• 46:06Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 46:07Robert Evans?

  Not, not hard to imagine how much worse it could have been.

• 46:11Robert Evans?

  Jewel kind of becomes a hero immediately. Like he, it, it's very clear from the jump that he's the guy who spotted this and what he had done. And he gets interviewed by local and national news later that day. He tells CNN, "The only thing I wish we could have done is got everybody out of the area. I feel for the victims and their families. And I mean, it's the Olympics. It's supposed to be a time of joy for the world and it's a very, very bad thing." Now, obviously, he's traumatized by the explosion. He's there. He's at ground zero. He sees the injuries. He sees the person who's killed. So that, like, he's fucked up by this, obviously. But he's also undeniably the hero. And in a better world, he would have gotten the validation he'd always sought, and it probably would have been good for his career,

• 46:54Robert Evans?

  right? I have trouble, if this had been where the story ended, I have trouble imagining him not getting hired by a police department somewhere, if only to get the good PR of bringing on this hero security guard, right?

• 47:05Speaker 01

  He could definitely work for ICE now, for sure.

• 47:07Robert Evans?

  Right, well, yeah.

• 47:09Speaker 01

  Just kidding.

• 47:10Robert Evans?

  Unfortunately, the world is not a just place. And instead of, you know, this leading to him actually having a career, you know, in law enforcement, uh, this nearly ruins his life, right? Like, this absolutely shatters him for quite some time. So...

• 47:27Speaker 01

  From the trauma, are you about to...

• 47:29Robert Evans?

  No.

• 47:30Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 47:31Robert Evans?

  Yeah. So, as soon as the blast happens, Jewel's old boss at Piedmont College, Ray Clear, sees his former employee on TV, and he gets pissed because he didn't like Jewel. They'd fallen out when Richard caught a kid smoking pot and insisted on arresting and charging the boy, and Clear was like, "No, just, like, cite him. You don't, we don't need any arrests of students over marijuana. That's, like, don't, don't do that," right? And obviously, Clear is in the right here, but because he doesn't like Richard Jewel, he doesn't trust him. And he thinks that he's, because he's kind of been, he's this weird guy, right? He's, like, weirdly into being a cop. He's, just had rubbed Clear the wrong way. And so Clear calls the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, and he reports, "Hey, this

• 48:15Robert Evans?

  guy, who everyone is saying is the hero, I think he's got a lot of attention-seeking behavior and bad judgment, and maybe you should take another look into him," right? Basically saying, "Maybe, maybe he set it up," right? And you could almost see, you could see a logic there. "Okay, sure, this guy had failed out of being a cop. He wants to be hero. Maybe he planted a bomb so that he could get everyone away from it," right? Now, that's a stretch, and there's not any evidence ever that this was the case. So again, I think this is just a guy who didn't like Richard, calling the GBI and trying to, like, out of jealousy or something, fuck up his former employee. But the tip gets passed along to the FBI and the FBI takes it seriously and they send

• 49:00Robert Evans?

  out investigators to look into every aspect of Jewel's life.

• 49:03Speaker 07

  Robert, I would never out you to the FBI. I promise.

• 49:06Robert Evans?

  Thank you, Sophie. That, that is, absolutely doesn't sound like something someone who just outed me to the FBI would say.

• 49:12Speaker 07

  I would never do that. I would never do that.

• 49:15Robert Evans?

  What if I arrested a kid for smoking pot?

• 49:18Speaker 01

  Poor form, even with enemies, I think, to go out of your way to fuck with someone's life. Like, you should be pretty sure.

• 49:24Speaker 07

  With zero evidence, this guy was just like, hmm.

• 49:27Robert Evans?

  I don't know. He's a guy that is an attention seeker. I don't trust him.

• 49:30Speaker 07

  He's like, I'm a weird guy. I didn't like him. Let me call the feds, sir.

• 49:36Robert Evans?

  You're being, I was on your back for the pot thing, but you are the dick here now, right?

• 49:41Speaker 07

  Sir, yeah.

• 49:42Robert Evans?

  And, you know, the initial investigation, and honestly, any responsible investigation would have looked into Jewel a little, right? Cause he was there.

• 49:50Speaker 07

  Sure, sure.

• 49:51Robert Evans?

  And you always like, that's not unreasonable to look into the guy, right?

• 49:58Robert Evans?

  But being the FBI, they pursue this in the most fucked up and scummy way possible. So, two days after the bombing, Jewel gets a phone call from a friend of his with the Georgia Bureau of Investigation. This is like somebody that he had been social with. I think somebody that he idolized, because this guy is a real, you know, special agent, right? That's kind of what I want to do, right? And so, the FBI, when they find out that there's someone in the Georgia Bureau of Investigation who knows Jewel, they're like, hey, he likes you, right? He thinks you're his friend? Get some info out of him, right?

• 50:31Speaker 01

  No.

• 50:31Robert Evans?

  Yeah. So, this guy at the GBI calls Jewel and he's like, hey, buddy, who I probably hadn't talked to in weeks. Uh, I was out of work the day the bombing happened. Mind if I come over to your house and you tell me what happened? I'm just really curious about how you were such a hero. Obviously, this guy's wearing a wire the whole time, right?

• 50:52Robert Evans?

  So, Jewel is unaware, though. He thinks that his cool friend in the GBI is proud of him and just wants to hear about his triumph and mayhem. Who knows? Maybe I could get a job at the GBI after this, right? You know, having just saved all these people's lives.

• 51:07Robert Evans?

  Now, again, Jewel does not catch on, but what's happened here is at this early stage, the feds have gone from considering Richard Jewell a hero to within days suspecting him of being the bomber, right? Almost immediately, he becomes their prime, like, there's a couple of guys earlier, as we'll talk about, who they'd seen, but very quickly, he becomes the primary focus of the investigation.

• 51:28Speaker 07

  Really fucked up.

• 51:29Robert Evans?

  And the reasoning why they focus on him boils mostly down to laziness, and this is my opinion here, but I think there's some professional jealousy going on here, too. Because the FBI's out in force at every Olympics in the US, obviously, the GBI is there because it's in Georgia, these are the premier law enforcement agencies.

• 51:50Speaker 07

  Right.

• 51:51Robert Evans?

  In the region that are supposed to be making sure a bombing doesn't happen, they both fuck up. A bomber gets through security with a bomb, enters the Olympic Park area, and sets off the bomb without being caught. And the only reason it wasn't worse, and that dozens of people aren't dead, is that a rent-a-cop outperformed the entire federal law enforcement apparatus. All of the millions of dollars in gear, the bomb-sniffing dogs, the metal detectors, none of that did any shit. None of these highly-paid special agents figured out, fuck, none of them caught anyone before this happened. It was a rent-a-cop walking back to complain about some drunk kids who spotted the bomb and saved the day, right?

• 52:35Robert Evans?

  And I think that pisses off and embarrasses the FBI.

• 52:39Speaker 07

  Sounds like it.

• 52:40Robert Evans?

  Like, I think the attitude for a lot of people in the Bureau is like, and particularly, as we'll talk about, the guy who's the director of the Bureau at the time is like, "Well, this looks really bad for us unless that fucker was the bomber."

• 52:51Speaker 07

  Uh-huh.

• 52:52Robert Evans?

  Then, then, then the FBI gets to be the hero again, right? Once we, once we take this guy down, right? Now, you know who would never sell you out to the FBI?

• 53:06Speaker 07

  The products and services that... Sponsors? Yeah, the products and services that support this show.

• 53:10Robert Evans?

  I mean, honestly, several of our sponsors would sell you out to the FBI.

• 53:13Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 53:14Robert Evans?

  Anyway, here's some ads.

• 53:18Robert Evans?

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• 54:18Robert Evans?

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• 54:56Robert Evans?

  We're back. So the FBI is embarrassed. And this embarrassment also, it's not just that like they'd fucked up and let a bomb go off at the Olympic Park and the rent-a-cop was the guy who caught it. But this has been a bad, this is, we're talking 96. This has been a bad decade so far for the FBI and for federal law enforcement as a whole. A couple of years ago, you had Ruby Ridge and then Waco. And Waco is still very fresh in the public mind. And then obviously, the Oklahoma City bombing happens a year before this bombing, right?

• 55:27Speaker 07

  It's the trifecta.

• 55:28Robert Evans?

  And the FBI fails to stop it.

• 55:31Speaker 07

  That's literally the trifecta.

• 55:34Robert Evans?

  Yeah, like, they don't look good right now. And the fact that yet another bomber bombed yet another high-profile place that the FBI is supposed to be protecting does not make them look good, right?

• 55:46Speaker 01

  Unless this guy did it.

• 55:47Robert Evans?

  Unless this guy did it. And then we catch him and then we're heroes again, right? And yeah, the more investigators looked into it, the more it looked like there might be a case here because everyone they talked to as they reach out to the guys, number one, a lot of Jules Foamer coworkers don't like him and they don't like him because they were, I think as a general rule, shadier cops than he was, right? And because he's legitimately seems to have been kind of annoying, right? Like he was very overzealous, but none of those things are like crimes or terrorism adjacent, right? But they start putting together this because they're only looking at a narrow, and this is this kind of myopic detective blindness you get.

• 56:29Robert Evans?

  If you're only looking at a really narrow subset of the facts, it can look, well, okay, we're just looking at Jewel. Oh, he's overzealous. He really badly wants to be a cop. He'd do anything to be a cop. Hmm.

• 56:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 56:41Robert Evans?

  Maybe he cooked all this up for the benefit of his career. And it really does seem like he's making the most of his 15 minutes of fame. He gets interviewed by CNN. The AT&T's publicity team basically works up an appearance and makes him wear a company shirt because he'd been a security guard for AT&T. I guess because AT&T wanted Americans to associate their favorite phone company with a terroristic bombing that killed people and maimed people. I don't know why. It's a weird call, AT&T.

• 57:09Speaker 01

  That is weird. Marriott better given him something.

• 57:12Robert Evans?

  Marriott for sure, yeah. That would make sense. Richard would later claim, "The idea of going on TV made me nervous. I was not the hero. There were so many others who saved lives."

• 57:23Robert Evans?

  And perhaps the FBI would have concluded its investigation without Jewel catching on, right? Again, some degree of looking into this guy is reasonable. But given what happens next here, that winds up being impossible. And the reason why there's no chance to keep this under wraps and the reason why everything blows up and Jewel's life blows up is that the Atlanta Journal Constitution, which is a local paper of record in Atlanta, publishes an article on July 30th in which they announce that the FBI had a suspect for the bombing, security guard Richard Jewell. Now, The Journal was owned by Cox Newspapers, who had flown something like 300 people in from other papers to report out of The Journal's office. They had like, sent reporters around, flown them all around the world to like,

• 58:07Robert Evans?

  study up on different sports that they could report well on the Olympics, because they're putting out a daily special Olympics edition. And the expense, they spent millions preparing to cover the Olympics, right? Now, this is a time in which there's more money in the newspaper biz, but you gotta remember, whenever you're investing that kind of capital into an endeavor, you have to make a return, right? And so, the new editor of the paper, John Walter, is expecting, the fact that there's been a bombing, that's like a huge boon, potentially, to the media, right? Like, this is something people are gonna read about. And we're the paper of record for Atlanta, we've gotta be the ones breaking the scoops. We can't get scooped by the big national papers. We can't let the New York Times take this from us, right? Get something out about this, you know? And

• 58:51Robert Evans?

  the editor is this guy, John Walter, who is, he had replaced a more traditional ethical newsman. Walter is of this kind of generation of guys who's trying to find more exciting and profitable ways to package news content, as opposed to doing good journalism. Per Vanity Fair, quote, "More and more, the paper's influence was on what John Walter called chunklets, short bits in soft news style known as eye candy. The paper published features on couples' massage and how mushrooms grow in the rain. Walter had fired off several terse memos to ensure that there would be no more jumps of news stories to back pages, and no more unsourced news stories, except on rare occasions. I don't see any reason why you can't report hard news in a short form, one editor told me. The AJC style of

• 59:35Robert Evans?

  reporting in declarative sentences had a name, too, the voice of God. It was omniscient, because it allowed no references to unattributed sources. Subjects such as AIDS, which often required confidentiality, could not be covered properly in the paper, in the opinion of several reporters. The AJC picked up news stories with unnamed sources from the New York Times, however, and reporters groused about the hypocrisy of the double standard." Now, all this was gonna cause problems because the Journal can't let themselves be scooped in their hometown, but they get reached out to, they get basically a leak from the FBI, who like leaks them documents that make it clear that Richard Jewell is their chief suspect, right? Like, that's, that's what happens is someone from the FBI talks to them. And

• 1:00:17Robert Evans?

  this is a really ethically questionable thing, because a person who is suspected of a crime has not been charged with it. They certainly haven't been convicted. Is it ethical at all to report that this guy is under suspicion right now? Because you're going to nuke his life and make a huge number of people think he murdered someone and tried to murder dozens more people, right? But on the other hand, it's gonna sell papers. So obviously, print that shit, right? And so, Journal reporter Mary Scruggs writes an article titled "FBI Suspects Hero Guard May Have Planted Bomb." And again, it uses this kind of voice of God phrasings to where like, they did, they had a source that they couldn't admit that had

• 1:01:02Robert Evans?

  reached out to them, but they don't say that, right? Like, they don't address that at all. And I'm gonna read a quote from the article. "Richard Jewell, 33, a former law enforcement officer, fits the profile of the lone bomber. This profile generally includes a frustrated white man who is a former police officer, member of the military, or police wannabe who seeks to become a hero."

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  That's so fucked up.

• 1:01:25Robert Evans?

  That's so fucked up? Like, that's not even, that's not a real profile? That's not the lone bomber? How many lone bombers have fit this profile?

• 1:01:33Speaker 01

  Also, yes, he's eager and like, wants to be liked. I mean, that's...

• 1:01:39Robert Evans?

  I'm sorry, I don't think the standard lone bomber is a wannabe cop who wants to be a hero. In part because the guy who actually did the bombings, who we'll talk about later, was an anti-abortion activist who was bombing people because he thinks abortion's murder. He's a Christian extremist supremacist special forces veteran.

• 1:02:00Speaker 01

  But somehow doesn't think murder is murder?

• 1:02:03Robert Evans?

  I think he's fine with murder.

• 1:02:04Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:02:04Robert Evans?

  Like, they're all fine with murder, just not fine with women having choices. We, we understand what this is about. We don't have to play around with their semantics games.

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  There was definitely gonna be a manifesto, though, that was really involved in this. And thank you. I, I was worried that this was still unsolved, so I'm so glad that they figured it out.

• 1:02:23Robert Evans?

  It gets solved as shit.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  Okay, okay.

• 1:02:26Robert Evans?

  I'm just bringing it up to point out, like, their, this profile is completely wrong, right?

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:02:31Robert Evans?

  Now, as to how this all happened, because we don't exactly know how they got their source, it's very likely they get leaked by someone in the FBI, but I don't think that that's been proven to a point of certainty. The director of the FBI at this point was a toad named Louis Freeh, F-R-E-E-H. He came into the bombing primed to make bad decisions. One of his closest advisors was former deputy director of the FBI, Larry Potts, who tried to cover up FBI incompetence at Ruby Ridge. Freeh made himself responsible for the oversight of the Bureau's efforts in this high-profile case. He comes in and is immediately like, I am, I am like where the buck stops with this case. I'm directly overseeing this as director of the FBI.

• 1:03:14Robert Evans?

  Because this is like, obviously, given everything that's happened, nothing matters more than us quickly finding a culprit, right? And they don't? Initially, there had been like a suspect, a suspect who was like a drunk at a bar, who the night before had made some threatening comments. So he's their first suspect, but it turns out he's got an alibi. And this happens a couple of times, right? Where they'll find someone and he'll seem like it might, this guy might have been the one who did it. And then it'll become clear that he could not have been the bomber. And Freeh flips out at his subordinates each time. He becomes, in their words, abusive, condescending, and dismissive every time they tell him, no, it couldn't have been that guy. And whenever they start to suspect a new person, Freeh will declare, we have our man. He does that every time.

• 1:03:58Robert Evans?

  And so when they settle on and they get this leak and they start looking in to Richard Jewell, Freeh is like, we've got our guy. This is him. This has to be him. Make sure it's him, right? And that, there is some evidence that suggests that- orchestrated the leaking of information hours after the bombing, right?

• 1:04:16Speaker 01

  Okay, that seems plausible.

• 1:04:18Robert Evans?

  We we know he does this with the first time they have a suspect, that drunk at the bar. Like, there's a leak to so the papers know the FBI has got someone. And then it's really embarrassing to him because that guy wound up not having done it, right? So it's just very likely that he did the same thing with Jewel, right?

• 1:04:34Speaker 01

  Are the Olympics like going on the whole like?

• 1:04:37Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  A ticking clock of like?

• 1:04:39Robert Evans?

  It slows shit down a bit, but.

• 1:04:41Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:04:42Robert Evans?

  It's more just a matter of there was this high profile bombing at the Olympics. The FBI still hasn't caught the guy. The Oklahoma City bombing happened a year ago and they didn't stop that. It's just this like, we have to prove that we're worth all the money that the country spends on us. Because it really doesn't look like it right now, right? We're fucking, we're taking a massive L in public and I can't accept that, you know?

• 1:05:06Robert Evans?

  So for their part, the Journal avoids telling anyone how they got, because it's like a memo that they get that that like lists Jewel as the suspect. And they don't, again, it's this whole voice of God thing. They give no attribution and they don't cite a source. Atlanta Magazine describes their reporting as, quote, "leaving the reader to wonder whether the claims came from a legitimate law enforcement enforcement official or from a proclamation of God." It's this, and I have so many issues with like the way a lot of media works with like objectivity in this, but and this is another example of that of like, no, this is the way our paper sounds, right? We don't cite anonymous sources. We don't say that we've, you know, been leaked something.

• 1:05:48Robert Evans?

  Because that would be kind of, that would be breaking this voice of God that is so important to us. Otherwise, people aren't going to trust the Journal. And so what that does here is the FBI leaks to them instead of saying, yeah, the same guy who leaked to us, the same people who leaked to us the name or the a suspect who was exonerated have leaked again a suspect. But this guy one's totally it, guys, but we're not going to tell you where it came from, right? Nobody's doing well here. You see, like, it's the media. And particularly this one publication are being slimy as shit because it's good for business and because they've made a series of bad decisions editorially and the FBI is just desperate to have to make it clear, no, we're doing our jobs. We're on the ball.

• 1:06:33Robert Evans?

  You're safe. We know what we're doing. We know we fucked up and let a bombing happen, but you know, it's really not our fault because it was probably the security guard. How could we have known? You know, right? Like that's, that's what they're trying to do.

• 1:06:42Speaker 01

  It's like the headlines where it's like the, the people in Gaza were bombed, but it's like, by who?

• 1:06:50Robert Evans?

  Well, exactly. Yeah. Right.

• 1:06:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. Sorry. Don't mean to bring down the, the vibe.

• 1:06:56Robert Evans?

  No, no, no. But like it is this, all of these are like continuing problems with a lot of legacy media, right? Like this, uh, like the, the, the paper's brand and reputation, uh, is what matters more than like making sure that we're doing things ethically. And obviously traffic money makes sure that makes, means more than making sure we're doing things ethically, right? These, these articles will sell. People will buy our paper if we're covering this case. So let's just, if, if that means destroying Richard Jewell's life, fuck him. Right? Um, so you've got in the FBI, you've got the director pressuring every lead to be the guy. Uh, and Jewel, you know, seems like their best bet.

• 1:07:38Robert Evans?

  Uh, so that article drops on the 30th, uh, the same day that two FBI agents show up at Richard Jewell's house and ask him if he wants to make a training film for them. So he doesn't actually get to see this article that the journals published saying that he's the FBI's main suspect. But on the same day, they show up early at his house and like, hey, you did such a good job. Would you make a training video for us about how you spotted the bomb? Yeah. Why don't you come in to the station and, and because we just, we're such big fans of you. Maybe you've got a career in the bureau, Richard. Right? Obviously there's no training film. They want to interview him to see if he will slip up or be inconsistent

• 1:08:20Robert Evans?

  or lie under the guise of recording his wisdom as a training video for new agents. Jewel started to realize something was up when. His car was tailed by four other FBI cars on the way to the office and they're like, oh yeah, don't worry about it. It's fine. And he's like, that seems weird. I, I feel like you don't need four or five cars to take a guy to do a fucking interview. Um, and then they end the interview, this, this training video by asking him to sign a waiver of his rights. Nope. And then he's like, wait a second. That's no, actually, I think I want a lawyer now. And as soon as he does that, they pull the standard cop. Well, why do you need a lawyer, Richard? You didn't do anything, right? You know, like, Oh my fucking god.

• 1:09:02Robert Evans?

  It's just so shitty. And this is, he's, this guy, it takes him so long to realize what's happening because he trusts the system. He trusts cops. He likes, he idolizes these feds. And I, I'm actually surprised that he even got it then, but you have to imagine the dawning horror as he realizes like, oh my God, they were lying to me about all of this. They think I did it and they want, they're trying to trap me. Like, it's, it's, it's pretty fucked up. Like, I, I don't have a lot of inherent sympathy for the whole desperately wanting to be a cop thing, but you have to be sympathetic to a guy like Jewel who believes so strongly in this, just saves a bunch of lives. And then the, his reward is this system he idolizes absolutely turning on him. How long does this go on for?

• 1:09:48Robert Evans?

  About three months. Oh my gosh. So for three months, Jewel's life is turned upside down. FBI agents stake out his house, his house is searched, everything related to him is searched, right? Um, like they tear up his home, they tear up, like they, they're searching the houses of people who are like close to him. Embarrassing porn came up. Right. Yeah. Yeah. He can't go anywhere without being surrounded. No traveling. He becomes an object of obsession for reporters at the Journal. Not only is the FBI always outside of his house, dozens and dozens of journalists and cameras are always staking out his house, waiting for him to leave, waiting for any chance to shout questions at him. And the Journal, but turns themselves into the paper of Richard Jewell. They are publishing

• 1:10:30Robert Evans?

  multiple articles a day about this one guy. On August 1st, so that's the day after. He has his, that first article drops in the day after he goes to the FBI office. On August 1st, the same day he's raided by the FBI, the journal publishes a piece on Richard Jewell's history as a campus cop titled "A Bad Man to Cross on the Beat." Here's Atlanta Magazine. "Students were also quoted as saying that Jewell went to extremes. He was very macho and he could get very belligerent, Piedmont College junior Nikki Lane said. I've seen him go from calm to angry, back to calm, back to angry in a matter of seconds." And like, I get that he's a dick and he like tried to bust people for smoking pot, but

• 1:11:12Robert Evans?

  like that doesn't, that doesn't mean he's a bomber. Like you're going back to like, he was a bad man to cross. He tried to arrest a kid for weed. That's not, that's pretty far from pipe bomb.

• 1:11:24Speaker 01

  Yes, yes. Jesus Christ.

• 1:11:28Robert Evans?

  Another paragraph from that article with Atlanta Magazine gives you a good idea of how insane the coverage went. And this is all AJC. AJC columnist David Kindred, in his second column on Jewell in two days, compared the scene to the time law enforcement officers sought evidence against Wayne Williams, the man convicted of two murders in Atlanta's missing children case, when federal agents came to this town to deal with another suspect who lived with his mother. Like this one, that subject was drawn to the blue lights and sirens of police work. Like this one, he became famous in the aftermath of murder. And like, yeah, it's just, it's the yellowest journalism you could possibly do. Like they are, they're basically, they're turning their whole paper into this guy. Like, and his life is just hell.

• 1:12:10Robert Evans?

  For three straight months, every day, there's articles, not just in the AJC, but in national papers, digging into his backstory, talking about every embarrassing thing he ever did, talking to everyone who worked with him who didn't like him. The whole country reviles him. He is a, a subject of mockery and const- on the Tonight Joe, Jay Leno gives him a nickname, the Unadupus, right? And again, this man's crime was saving a bunch of people's lives from a bomb.

• 1:12:40Speaker 01

  The Unadupus.

• 1:12:42Robert Evans?

  The Unadupus, like. Per the New York Times, government officials and news organizations descended on the apartment Jewel shared with his mother. Dozens of FBI agents scoured the home and towed away Jewel's truck. In an apartment complex overlooking his building, four stations, ABC, CBS, CNN, and NBC, paid a tenant $1,000 a day to set up a command post in her unit. Yet, he was never charged. Inside, Jewel watched TV. He read. He played video games. He couldn't go outside, not without setting off a high-speed car chase of government vehicles and media vans, anyway. And it's just so fucked up. Like, he did nothing. He didn't do nothing. He saved people's lives. And everyone in the country hates him now.

• 1:13:25Speaker 01

  I feel kind of conflicted because, you know, like, that murderer in Washington who killed those four college girls or kids?

• 1:13:33Robert Evans?

  Oh, God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kohlberger, right? Is his name? Yeah, Brian, something like that? Yeah.

• 1:13:37Speaker 01

  So, all the things you're saying are like-

• 1:13:39Speaker 07

  The Idaho guy?

• 1:13:41Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. It was Idaho. You're right. But, like, they're doing these things, you know, like, I read articles where it was like, a teaching assistant that was like, "Yeah, he was creepy as fuck." And in his case, I think that's correct, but like-

• 1:13:55Robert Evans?

  Yes.

• 1:13:56Speaker 01

  All those tactics turned on an innocent person?

• 1:13:59Robert Evans?

  Right.

• 1:13:59Speaker 01

  That's horrible.

• 1:14:00Robert Evans?

  And that's the thing. And you don't have, I never like it when they do this with someone who hasn't, again, at least Kohlberger, I think, by the point most of that came out, had been charged and arrested. You have to remember, Jewel has not been charged. He's never charged, right? And it's one thing, and we can, there is, I still have a lot of issues with reporting on people who've been charged with crimes like this, and the breathless way the media does when they have not been convicted, have not had their day in court, because they're still legally innocent. But this guy hasn't even been charged with shit. You shouldn't be doing this at all when someone's just a suspect. Like, that is so, that is so, that's such fucking malpractice.

• 1:14:41Speaker 07

  Yeah. Agreed.

• 1:14:43Robert Evans?

  It's just really vile. On October 27th, prosecutors send a letter to Jewel's lawyer, not to Jewel, not to the public. They just send his lawyer a letter saying, "Hey, he's not a suspect anymore, by the way. We're done."

• 1:14:57Speaker 01

  No, sorry.

• 1:14:58Robert Evans?

  Yeah, the FBI makes, eventually they give kind of like a half-hearted apology. They admit some wrongdoing, right? But they don't, they take no effort to be like, again, the responsible thing to do would be like, oh shit, we really gotta, we gotta do a full court media press so that people know this guy is not suspected. They're just like, fuck it, he'll figure it out.

• 1:15:18Speaker 01

  They're like mean girls in high school.

• 1:15:20Robert Evans?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:20Speaker 01

  Terrorists.

• 1:15:22Robert Evans?

  Now, Jewel does sue them. He wins, sues the Justice Department. He wins a bunch of money. He sues several papers, including the AJC, and he settles out of court. He does well off of this, right? Like, he does, like, and, you know, he lives out his life and I'm not gonna talk about the rest of his life because the man deserves fucking privacy after that. But he, he does get some degree of vengeance for what they do. But like, man, you have the trauma of, of this, like, because who can imagine unless you have been, unless the entire country has suspected you of being a mass murdering terrorist for three or four months? Like, you can't know what that's like, you know, what kind of damage that does to you.

• 1:16:01Speaker 01

  And then, and then Clint Eastwood made that fucking movie.

• 1:16:04Robert Evans?

  And then, yes, Clint Eastwood, so fairly recently, Clint Eastwood made a movie about this.

• 1:16:12Speaker 01

  Literally called Richard Jewell.

• 1:16:14Robert Evans?

  Yeah, it's called Richard Jewell.

• 1:16:17Robert Evans?

  Clint makes a movie in 2019 about this whole case, right? Because, I mean, conservatives are like this story because they hate the media. And this is a great example of the media being just as bad as they, they like to act like it always is. Now, they didn't go, the media didn't go after Jewel because he was a conservative. They went after Jewel because the FBI sent them on his case. And, yeah, they were feckless and only cared about money.

• 1:16:48Robert Evans?

  But Clint's, what's really interesting to me about Clint's movie is that it does kind of the same thing to one of the journalists at the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that they had done to Richard Jewell, which is like, defame him or her.

• 1:17:01Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 1:17:03Robert Evans?

  So, the author of the first article that like, Listed him as the suspect was written by Kathy Scruggs. She's the reporter who did this. And as far as we know, she just got it or she and the, I think she worked with a colleague, got like a tip that probably traced back to an FBI person who had been directed by Free to put the tip out there, right? That's probably what happened. In the film, Kathy Scruggs is shown as going up to an FBI agent at a bar a couple of days after the bombing and saying, give me something I can print. She's played by Olivia Wilde, by the way. The FBI agent, played by Jon Hamm, says basically, I'll give you the name if you fuck me.

• 1:17:48Robert Evans?

  And so, yeah, she starts like touching him and he says, Richard Jewell, right? And then they go, they go fuck, right? So basically it shows Kathy Scruggs, a real woman, as played by Olivia Wilde, sleeping with a source in order to get Richard Jewell's name, which is not what happened. No one's ever alleged that being what happened. That was invented by our old friend Clint Eastwood, or whoever wrote the fucking movie, just because the, the story didn't seem bad enough as it was. And because I guess if you talk about what actually happened, then you have to be deeply critical about the FBI because this is ultimately their fault as much as anything else and fundamentally the profit motive in journalism, right?

• 1:18:31Robert Evans?

  Like both of those things are the bastards here, but Clint's not interested in that.

• 1:18:35Speaker 01

  Let's make it a woman.

• 1:18:37Robert Evans?

  Yeah, it's, it's a woman. It's, it's this woman who couldn't keep it in her pants.

• 1:18:41Speaker 01

  Slutty journalists ruining the world.

• 1:18:45Robert Evans?

  Classic slutty journalists sleeping with the FBI to get a name.

• 1:18:49Speaker 07

  Slutty journalists, my favorite kind.

• 1:18:54Robert Evans?

  Yeah, anyway, uh, that's the first part of these, this story, you know? We'll be talking about, uh, Steve Hatfield and the Anthrax attacks, um, next episode. But yeah, how are you feeling? You, you, you, you happy?

• 1:19:10Speaker 01

  I've totally forgot about this Steve guy.

• 1:19:13Robert Evans?

  Yeah, I know, I know. It's wild. We haven't even gotten to him yet, but this story is like the precursor.

• 1:19:19Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:19:19Speaker 07

  Oh, yes.

• 1:19:20Robert Evans?

  Well, kinda, yeah.

• 1:19:22Speaker 01

  All right. I feel like we just went on a wild ride. I'm, I'm ready for the next part.

• 1:19:27Robert Evans?

  Excellent. Well, uh, we'll get to that on Thursday.

• 1:19:31Speaker 07

  Do you want to plug your pluggables one more time for everybody?

• 1:19:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. Uh, just my book, you guys, maybe check out my book. It's called Girl Gone Wild. I tell all my secrets of the last decades that I've been on this planet. So it's available for preorder.

• 1:19:49Speaker 07

  Heck, yeah.

• 1:19:49Robert Evans?

  Excellent. Check that book out. And, uh, yeah, you know, go, don't go to the Olympics.

• 1:19:57Speaker 01

  Watch it at home. Safer.

• 1:19:59Robert Evans?

  Yeah, or steal it off of the internet. Either way.

• 1:20:05Speaker 07

  Bye.

• 1:20:09Speaker 07

  Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube. New episodes every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel, youtube.com slash at Behind the Bastards.

• 1:20:34Speaker 02

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A plus by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:21:02Speaker 05

  A BetterHelp ad. I would like to formally request more storage space in my brain. Because somehow I can forget why I opened my laptop where I put my keys, or the name of someone I met 30 seconds ago. But I can remember an awkward conversation from six years ago in extraordinary detail. So if your brain came with a delete button, what would you use it on? Maybe it's that tough breakup you've analyzed from every possible angle, and irrational worry you know doesn't deserve this much attention. The conversation with your boss you keep rehearsing in the shower, or that one comment someone made that you're still thinking about weeks later. We don't always get to choose what sticks around in our heads.

• 1:21:43Speaker 05

  BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that gives you space to talk about what's taking up too much of yours. BetterHelp is now in-network with more than 125 health plans, with many copays as low as $15 for eligible members. Visit betterhelp.com. Cost and coverage may vary. You've watched them take their first steps, heard their first words, but there's one first that changes everything: the moment your child realizes they can read. At Hooked on Phonics, we've spent 40 years making that moment easier. Our award-winning app pairs with a monthly practice pack: real books, workbooks, and stickers. So learning feels like play. Give your child the confidence to love reading.

• 1:22:27Speaker 05

  Start today for just $1 at hookedonphonics.com. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.