Alexandra Burke: Becoming Chaka Khan & Finding Her Purpose After Grief

What does it take to keep going when life keeps testing how badly you want the dream? In this episode of Begin Again, Alexandra Burke joins Davina for an emotional and deeply personal conversation about X Factor, grief, motherhood, love, faith and the determination that has carried her through every chapter of her life. Alexandra looks back on the extraordinary road to becoming a star: singing alongside her mum as a child, Stevie Wonder wanting to sign her at just 12 years old, being sent home from X Factor at 16, and the mother who eventually pushed her to go back and try again. She opens up about what was really happening in her life during that first rejection, why she now knows she wasn’t ready, and the remarkable full-circle journey that followed. She also speaks movingly about losing her mum, the grief she still carries and how becoming a mother herself has changed the way she understands the sacrifices her own mum made. Alexandra shares why she has fiercely protected her two boys, how she met her partner Darren after years of choosing the wrong relationships, and the moment she realised the family life she has now is everything she once prayed for. Now, playing Chaka Khan on stage in I’m Every Woman, Alexandra reveals why the most challenging role of her career is bringing parts of her own past back to the surface, why she has had to learn to leave Chaka at the theatre, and why she plans to return to therapy when the show ends. This is a conversation about rejection, grief, resilience, faith and refusing to give up on the life you know you’re meant to have. Follow us here: 📸 www.instagram.com/beginagain 🎥 https://www.tiktok.com/@beginagainpod ✨ Sign up for the Begin Again newsletter for behind-the-scenes access, recommendations and much more: https://linkly.link/2g2xm We'd love you to share your Get Busy Living stories with us at https://getbusyliving.beginagainshow.com/ (00:00) Intro (01:20) Why “I’m Every Woman” Means So Much (06:51) How Her Mum Inspired Her (15:08) Alexandra’s Bond With Her Mum (18:57) Singing With Her Mum as a Child (20:06) Why She Turned Down Stevie Wonder (25:49) Get Busy Living With Monzo (27:24) Monzo GBL Ad (28:35) Leaving School at 16 for Music (30:21) Her Abusive Relationship at 16 (31:50) Rejected by The X Factor at 16 (32:50) Coming Back to Win The X Factor (38:15) How Chaka Khan Helped Her Heal (39:23) Performing for Chaka Khan (41:51) Why She Keeps Her Children Private (48:35) How She Met Her Husband Darren (53:58) Finding Out She Was Pregnant (58:20) Going Back to Work After Giving Birth (59:42) Pregnant Again Seven Months Later (01:01:46) Pre-Eclampsia During Her Second Pregnancy (01:03:12) Why She Wants More Children (01:06:20) How Alexandra Found Her Confidence (01:09:15) Honouring Her Mum Through Her Foundation Sponsored by: Monzo - Download Monzo. Monzo Current Accounts are for 16+ and UK residents. Ts&Cs Apply. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

  Please welcome to the Begin Again stage Alexandra Burke! Oh, right, yes, I'm most terribly sorry. Davina McCall!

• 0:45Speaker 02

  Actually, can we just go get Alexandra?

• 0:48Speaker 01

  Why didn't you say that in the first place?

• 0:55Speaker 02

  Our next guest, this is a slightly different intro. We'd normally be on the street, but this is the busiest woman in show business, and she's had to come here to get ready. She arrived with a full face mask on, but Alexandra is finally ready. And I thought, how can we do the intro without being on the street? So I thought I'd use the legendary phrase that I once used in a far-gone career, and that is Alexandra. I'm going to get you! Let's go. I've got very high heels on, Connie, I can't go fast.

• 1:30Speaker 02

  Hello, babes! Um, excuse me! Crikey, love this!

• 1:36Speaker 03

  Let's go sit down.

• 1:37Speaker 02

  Here, come sit here.

• 1:51Speaker 02

  I am so excited because the other night I went to a musical that changed everything. I have not stopped talking about I'm Every Woman since I came to... I literally can't stop talking about it. I've posted about it, recommended it on the podcast, it's unbelievable. But I am here with its star, who plays Shaka Khan, Alexandra Burke, who we all know and love. Alexandra Burke, welcome to the studio.

• 2:18Speaker 03

  Oh, I love you so much, darling. Thank you for having me. My gosh.

• 2:21Speaker 02

  You.

• 2:24Speaker 02

  I already knew how brilliant you were.

• 2:26Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 2:26Speaker 02

  And I appreciate you in every way.

• 2:28Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 2:29Speaker 02

  But this, do you know? Can you feel it?

• 2:32Speaker 03

  I feel it because, I'm gonna keep it real, every day I'm exhausted. So I know I'm pouring my heart and soul into this.

• 2:38Speaker 02

  How long is it on tour? Not long, right?

• 2:40Speaker 03

  Not long, it's... We close September 27th, so in total 10 weeks.

• 2:46Speaker 02

  That took it.

• 2:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's not long. We're lucky to have this opportunity. We're all exhausted. But for me personally, I can only speak for myself, this role, as you saw, is the most challenging role of my life, to play someone who's still here.

• 3:02Speaker 02

  Yes, I mean, that's in itself...

• 3:04Speaker 03

  That's in itself is a massive pressure.

• 3:06Speaker 02

  How much did you know about Shaka before this role?

• 3:08Speaker 03

  Oh, not a lot. I'm not gonna lie to you, not a lot. I of course knew her music and grew up to her music, like, used one of her songs to audition with my mom in X Factor, but I didn't know much about her life. And I heard her say something the other day, when she got asked, "Why are you ready to do it now?" And she was like, "Well, you know, I've done a book, so just read the book." And I thought, "Oh, God." But she's ready for it now because of the village she has around her, helping to create this show.

• 3:36Speaker 02

  I was worried about you in the break, in the middle, like, when we were in the interval. I was like, "She must be exhausted." I don't even know how you go back after the interval, it's almost not enough time to...

• 3:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's not enough time, no.

• 3:52Speaker 02

  So first off, I quickly want to talk about the fact that you play Shaka Khan. There weren't little girls playing her when she was a little girl.

• 4:00Speaker 03

  No, yeah, I'm playing the whole way through.

• 4:02Speaker 02

  It's you, the whole way through. It was so funny seeing you as a little girl. I was like, "Oh my God, she is like a little girl." So talk to me about the age when you... We start telling her story and to what she's like, and what was that like?

• 4:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, okay, so we start it with... We open up as Shaka in the present day, well, not present day, but when she was doing family therapy, right? And at that point, when we start the show, it's a battle with herself in the fact that she is using, and her family need her to stop. Her family are trying to take... There's an intervention there, and their family are really trying to help Shaka, but she's not hearing this. The therapy, all of that. And then it goes into her being a kid and showing you how she got into things. And I don't... Obviously, I'm trying to be really careful how I explain it because I don't want to give too much away, but what really helps is that, I don't think people realize, in

• 4:59Speaker 03

  Act One, there's probably about 20 changes that I do, like, it's like, maybe 16 to 20 changes I do.

• 5:04Speaker 02

  And you literally walk behind something as you're walking and you change.

• 5:07Speaker 03

  A wig gets pulled off, then one gets put back on, it's mental. I'm wearing, I've got, you know, layers under layers under layers, and when we open the show, I've actually got the young Shaka on underneath so that it can be a very quick change, so I can sing and drink some water in between all these changes, right? And tea, of course. But it's so wild, and I've got such a great team backstage with me.

• 5:28Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 5:29Speaker 03

  Helping me out to execute these changes because it's, you know, there's no iron team, right? But we go through 50 years of her life, and that's why it's so fast-paced. You need to be in a really good place that evening, you've even needed to have your coffee so you can stay with us, because we go through it, right? So quick.

• 5:47Speaker 02

  That's why I want to see it again.

• 5:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, because if you're not paying attention, you miss something. And the years we go through from then her being discovered, like, her in The Black Panthers, then her being discovered with Rufus, Oz Rufus and Shaka Khan, and then it goes into her, then going solo, and it's just... And then she meets Prince, and then you see Stevie Wonder, you see Whitney Houston, and it's like, it's bam bam bam bam bam bam bam. And I'll tell you something, so then that script, I'll never forget when we was about to open the hackney, and we were maybe five days away, and I wasn't off-script for one last chunk. And I remember saying to the general manager, Emily, and I was like, "I can't do this." I said, "We open up in five days, and the way that we're creating the show, rehearsing the show, teching the show, I've not had the time to digest this script, and I'm struggling." And I was really, really open about it.

• 6:33Speaker 03

  And thankfully, I don't know what happened, but I got myself together and got on stage and learned every single line. But to this day, I have the script on the side of the stage. And I know I know my words, but I have it for security because I never get complacent, just in case.

• 6:48Speaker 02

  But you know what? This is something I know about you. You are not a complacent person. You never take anything for granted.

• 6:59Speaker 03

  Never.

• 7:00Speaker 02

  You are so grateful for everything that you have been through.

• 7:05Speaker 03

  Yeah. I just have this thing that I... I'm a firm believer in God, I'm a very spiritual person, and I know that the moment that you are ungrateful for your blessings, it can be taken away like that. And I looked, you know, I look back at my life and look at my mom and how much she's sacrificed, right? And not once I ever see my mom turn to us and act ungrateful for her blessings, even though she struggled. She struggled as a single mother with four kids, but she still put food on the table, put clothes on our back, still went out touring with soul to soul, still tried her best. And if she can do that and everything she went through with her health problems and

• 7:47Speaker 03

  still showed up, I can't not show up. Do you know what I mean when I say that? As a mother of two now, I don't feel I have the right not to show up. Do you know what I mean? That my mom gave everything, and I can't talk about that crying because I feel like I was robbed of time.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  She was so...

• 8:08Speaker 03

  Only 53, so it's like, now a mom of two kids, I'm like, "Wow, I need her. I need her more than ever." And I know she's there, but... Yeah, she's there, she's there all the time. She's there all the time. I just wish she was physically here.

• 8:29Speaker 03

  Because I need her. And I think she shows up in so many different ways because she knows I struggle daily without her. And I am very good at like, not only being honest about it, but...

• 8:44Speaker 03

  I'm good at remembering my blessings. That's what it is. I'm good at remembering and I'm not afraid to be vocal about it and to talk about how lucky I am, how lucky I feel I've been in this industry. I know I've been through several ups and downs, but for goodness sake, I won a TV show that people voted for.

• 9:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:02Speaker 03

  That doesn't guarantee you a career.

• 9:04Speaker 02

  Explain how you leave Shaka at the theatre because you were taking Shaka home.

• 9:09Speaker 03

  I was taking Shaka home to the point where Darren was calling me miserable.

• 9:14Speaker 02

  Because her life.

• 9:15Speaker 03

  Because her life is is hard. And I'm, and so what I now do is I have a specific perfume just for her that I spray. And it's called Something With Love. And I always say, always say things with love. And I deliberately picked it because it's got love in in the title of it. Um, of the perfume. And so I spray that. And as soon as I get off that stage, I quickly spray my one that I'm known for, my little red bottle. Um, and I spray that all over me to get her off of me. And I, and I have a moment of warming down my voice and I just talk to myself in my head and I'm like, you've played a role. You've played Shaka and this is not your life. And I repeat that, maybe like five times to myself.

• 9:55Speaker 03

  Let it go, leave it here, let it go, let her go and leave her here. And that's how I leave her at the door and leave her in the theatre.

• 10:03Speaker 02

  It's a really clever.

• 10:03Speaker 03

  So I can't bring her home.

• 10:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:05Speaker 03

  And the moment that I say to Darren, if the moment you see me being a bit down or a bit weird, ask me if I've brought Shaka home. And I know that might sound like a weird thing. But sadly, earlier you brought up about the interval and and you said, how do you even get, you know, enough time to get to then come back on?

• 10:24Speaker 02

  Process.

• 10:24Speaker 03

  So I have to sadly go somewhere in that last scene mentally.

• 10:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:31Speaker 03

  With um, an ex that used to hurt me badly. And sadly, I have to go there as a sixteen year old me that used to get, go through a really tough time. And I'm so grateful. I'm in a safe space with the guy that plays my second husband, plays Shaka's second husband, sorry, Miles. He also plays Prince. And I'm safe with him on stage because he triggers me when he does his whole

• 10:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:56Speaker 03

  thing on stage. And the moment he touches me,

• 11:01Speaker 03

  sadly, a lot comes up for me when I was sixteen and went through a really abusive relationship.

• 11:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:07Speaker 03

  And then I have to get, hold him after and give him the biggest hug. And we hold each other dearly. For about a minute, maybe we hug after and we just make, check in, make sure we're both okay. And then we move on. There is not enough time in that interval for me mentally to escape that, to get back on. But sadly, as my mum was used to say to me, the show must go on. So I don't know what it is that I'm doing to then get back on, but I, the second act is very difficult for me. And there's a lot of tears because I'm triggered from that last scene.

• 11:33Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 11:34Speaker 03

  I'm really triggered, yeah. So it's hard.

• 11:37Speaker 02

  It's relentless.

• 11:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:38Speaker 02

  Isn't it?

• 11:39Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I know, I'm gonna say this openly, once the show's done, I'm gonna get therapy around it. I'm hundred percent going to give myself that gift. Because it's bringing up a lot for me. Especially in that last scene that she's pregnant, a lot for me.

• 11:53Speaker 02

  Talk to me about um, your journey with therapy. Is it something that you've embraced as you've been an adult?

• 12:00Speaker 03

  I've done it. Yeah. So I, so I started therapy when my mum was sick. And I started family therapy first. And gave that up simply because sometimes my family members would turn up late or they just wouldn't turn up, right? And, and, and you know, look, it's not for everyone, okay? And I get that. So they, some of them had their own reasons to us why they maybe have not wanted to be there and that's okay. Then I took on therapy after SAS.

• 12:23Speaker 02

  Okay, I, I, I'm glad you brought that up because I want to talk to you about how real is it? Because people often kind of think, oh, it can't be as bad as, it can't be as bad as what they say that it is. But I think it is, right?

• 12:36Speaker 03

  It's bad, yeah.

• 12:37Speaker 02

  It is, isn't it?

• 12:38Speaker 03

  And I, it's traumatic, yeah. I had PTSD after that.

• 12:41Speaker 02

  Right.

• 12:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, hundred percent.

• 12:43Speaker 02

  What was the worst?

• 12:44Speaker 03

  Changed me.

• 12:45Speaker 02

  What was the worst bit for you?

• 12:46Speaker 03

  The worst bit for me, but also the greatest bit for me was that when you had to write yourself a letter that if when you went on the run, if you died.

• 12:52Speaker 02

  Right.

• 12:53Speaker 03

  And that letter goes to your family. I still have that letter. Some of them burnt it. I didn't burn mine. I haven't opened it. Um, but it also was the best thing for me.

• 13:03Speaker 02

  Why?

• 13:03Speaker 03

  Because it mended relationships that I needed to mend in my life. And it also got rid of a relationship I needed to get rid of in my life. And it made me realise my self-worth. Like, I was like, hold on, I don't need to stay with a guy that cheats. Sorry? No, no, no, no, no. No, not when I give everything to you. No, I don't need to stay in this relationship. That's going. That's in the bin. And with love, God bless you, move on. And I also don't need to be around people where it's a one-sided thing. Like, I can count my close friends on one hand now at thirty-seven and I'm grateful for that. I don't need so many people around me all the time. I need those who care. And SAS gave that to me. And I always said I'd do it before having children.

• 13:46Speaker 03

  And then I met the love of my life after, without knowing that I'd meet him. So it gave me an understanding in a very short space of time, may I add, because that's, it's only, it's only a week. You're there in isolation. Yeah, we was in isolation for a week and then you're on the show for, on the course for a week. But it's the most intense. You don't sleep. You're sleep deprived, hardly eating. It's, it's crazy, but it's giving you a glimpse of what, you know, people in that situation actually go through. But it's not as bad as that. Of course it's not because it's made for TV, but it gave me a massive insight to, I've, I've got to have a bit more self-belief going on. Self-worth, like, don't stand for certain things in life. Don't take shit from men. Do you know what I mean?

• 14:31Speaker 03

  And I literally was like, I've put up with so much crap. And I've just put the smile on my face and gone, I'm fine, everything's gonna be okay. Behind closed doors, I'm crying at night. I don't need to be doing that. Why should I, why should I be doing that? We have one life. I wanna live it with no regrets. I wanna live it to, to the fullest. I wanna have joy. I wanna, I just wanna wake up and know that I'm, I'm trying my hardest. Do you know what I mean? And, and I work hard. I work my ass off, right? And I wouldn't have it any other way. I love what I do for a living. The fact that I call my dream a job. I make money from it. I get to provide for my children. I get to help my family when I can.

• 15:12Speaker 03

  I just, I just wanna try my best in life and have fun because it's not promised. Tomorrow's isn't promised. You get, get one chance, one life. Live it. Live it. My mum left at fifty-three.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. I was really, really shocked and sad when I heard about your mum dying so young. I um, you know, she hadn't.

• 15:35Speaker 03

  She hadn't even got to see her grandchildren.

• 15:36Speaker 02

  No.

• 15:37Speaker 03

  Well, from me anyway, from her daughters. Do you know what I mean? I struggle with that. I really struggle with that because I've never spoken about this, but I'm gonna tell you.

• 15:49Speaker 03

  So she had two strokes.

• 15:52Speaker 03

  And the first one, she was slightly still coherent afterwards. And I remember rushing to the hospital after the first stroke, being told, and she could hear us, but she couldn't speak. And uh, and I just ran in that room and I said, mum.

• 16:12Speaker 03

  I said, mum, if you want me to give all this up

• 16:16Speaker 03

  and give you a grandchild and just stop all this, because I was on tour.

• 16:24Speaker 03

  Give me a sign, lift a leg or lift an arm.

• 16:28Speaker 03

  And she lifted her leg.

• 16:35Speaker 03

  And I think my only regret I have in life

• 16:41Speaker 03

  is going back to work. After her being so sick.

• 16:48Speaker 03

  Because she always told me, never let my fans down.

• 16:54Speaker 03

  Never let people down.

• 16:55Speaker 02

  She was a singer?

• 16:56Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 16:57Speaker 02

  Or she was a performer, wasn't she?

• 16:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:00Speaker 02

  And she, she, she knew.

• 17:02Speaker 03

  She knew.

• 17:03Speaker 02

  She knew.

• 17:03Speaker 03

  But she waited until I finished that tour and she sadly passed on the last show. But I made it.

• 17:09Speaker 02

  I was just gonna say.

• 17:10Speaker 03

  I made it. She waited for me. But I think for me, that's my biggest regret is uh, listening to her. I should have stayed with her. I should have come off that tour. And I should have been there for my mum more. And don't get me wrong, I was performing, getting in the car, going to the hospital, sleeping on the floor.

• 17:27Speaker 02

  Coming back, yeah.

• 17:28Speaker 03

  Going back to do a show and no one knew what I was going through. The stage manager at the time, God bless him, Andy, had my phone on stage and I'd go, I'm giving you permission to read the family group, I need all updates on my mum. I'd go off, go and do a scene, come off, look at the phone, okay, come on, go and do this. It was horrific. I would never advise anyone to put themselves through that, but she always would remind me, you've got bills to pay.

• 17:50Speaker 02

  Well, listen, it's somebody's self-employed.

• 17:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 17:54Speaker 02

  What can you do, like?

• 17:55Speaker 03

  But that's probably my biggest regret.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's not, um, having those last nine months with her, uh, properly. I know I was there, but I missed out on time.

• 18:06Speaker 02

  You were there.

• 18:07Speaker 03

  Yeah. That's the toughest thing to digest, yeah.

• 18:11Speaker 02

  You gave what you could and you gave more than most.

• 18:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:13Speaker 02

  Know that.

• 18:14Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, I just miss her so much.

• 18:17Speaker 02

  I know.

• 18:18Speaker 03

  And grief doesn't leave you.

• 18:20Speaker 02

  No. In a funny kind of way, obviously you know my sister's, my sister's there.

• 18:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  Um, the grief that I feel for my sister now feels like a, a, a sign of how much I loved her.

• 18:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:37Speaker 02

  And I, I like that feeling.

• 18:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:40Speaker 02

  I'm like, this is how much I loved you, that you are still with me all the time.

• 18:45Speaker 03

  Maybe I need to start taking that.

• 18:47Speaker 02

  It's a slight reframe.

• 18:48Speaker 03

  Absolutely, yeah, that I didn't think of it like that. That's lovely.

• 18:52Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 18:53Speaker 03

  That's really lovely. Maybe I need to start saying that to myself. Cause I just think, all of this with like Shaka and stuff.

• 19:00Speaker 02

  Well, that's similar.

• 19:01Speaker 03

  Circle moment, isn't it? Yeah, like auditioning with my mum singing Ain't Nobody, she sounded terrible. And she deliberately done that so that I could get in. Poor woman, you know, my mum was a legend and I could say that with my chest, a legend, right? And the fact that she sounded so terrible, we used to sing Ain't Nobody in the pubs, clubs, bar mitzvahs, weddings, funerals, you name it.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  Talk to me about that. When did you start singing with your mum?

• 19:26Speaker 03

  At the age of nine, yeah. I mean, she took me on stage before that, but like from what I can remember, was the age of nine, right?

• 19:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:33Speaker 03

  And we were in Bahrain, we lived in Bahrain for a few months because she was, um, touring. And she got me on stage with her band and stuff and I would just, she'd be like, I would be so scared to get on stage. The one tune I knew was Randy Crawford's You Might Need Somebody. I was a one trick pony. And it's the only song I'd sing. Then it sort of like evolved into like singing more Al Green and, and, and of course Whitney Houston and Gladys Knight. And, and all the old, old school people, right? And, um, and I, and then I used to do gigs with her and then she sent me out to start doing gigs on my own from the age of 12.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  Really?

• 20:07Speaker 03

  Yes, 12 years old.

• 20:08Speaker 02

  I love that.

• 20:09Speaker 03

  With her friends and they would accompany me, they'd be either on the piano or playing a sax and I'd be the singer. Four, forty-five minute sets, sometimes five, get paid peanuts, but it was all experience and building for me.

• 20:21Speaker 02

  Can I ask you, because the other really weird connection that there was with Shaka was Stevie Wonder.

• 20:27Speaker 03

  Yes, oh my god, yes, yes.

• 20:28Speaker 02

  So mad.

• 20:29Speaker 03

  Stevie came to my house, yeah, well, my mum's house.

• 20:32Speaker 02

  I was like, what?

• 20:33Speaker 03

  Yes, oh my god, yes, I've never, I haven't talked about this, oh my god, that's so strange. So when my mum, um, used to work, uh, for a guy that's basically like a second dad to me, Ciro. Ciro's Pizza Pomodoro in Knightsbridge, right, amazing Italian restaurant. I've been going there since I was a very young age. Um, and Stevie Wonder and Lennox Lewis walks in, Lennox, Lennox Lewis, yeah.

• 20:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:55Speaker 03

  Right?

• 20:55Speaker 02

  Right.

• 20:55Speaker 03

  And then my mum's on stage singing and she's like, oh my god, it's Stevie Wonder. Anyway, so Stevie, um, loves mum's voice, they go to church together and then he wants to sign me at 12 and then my mum wouldn't let him sign me. But he came to our house, he came to our house and was outside, I will never forget, it was like he sent us, my mum was like, calling every single neighbour to come out and she was like, Stevie Wonder's coming, Stevie Wonder's going, Islington. Stevie Wonder came to Islington, for goodness sake, Jesus, how have I not talked about this? And then he wanted to sign me and he's in the show. That is wild. Why have I not talked about this? Oh my god, yeah, you forget.

• 21:32Speaker 02

  But the other really nuts thing was that your mum said no.

• 21:35Speaker 03

  Yes, yes, because she was so scared of my age.

• 21:39Speaker 02

  But can I tell you something?

• 21:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:42Speaker 02

  I think she was right.

• 21:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, she was right, a hundred percent.

• 21:44Speaker 02

  Imagine, imagine the life you would have had from 12.

• 21:49Speaker 03

  I wouldn't, I wouldn't, we wouldn't be sat here.

• 21:51Speaker 02

  No.

• 21:51Speaker 03

  I promise you now, she knew what she was doing. She wanted me to be a kid and rightly so. And.

• 21:57Speaker 02

  But it's still a great story.

• 21:58Speaker 03

  It's a great story.

• 21:59Speaker 02

  Turned down Stevie.

• 22:00Speaker 03

  And even, and even at 16, when I got told no on X Factor.

• 22:03Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 22:04Speaker 03

  Perfect timing.

• 22:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:06Speaker 03

  And she turned down Stevie, hold on, let's say that aloud, my mum turned down Stevie Wonder to sign me. Mental, mental.

• 22:15Speaker 02

  Hilarious, like no one would do.

• 22:17Speaker 03

  Right, ever.

• 22:18Speaker 02

  No.

• 22:19Speaker 03

  And as a mum, you'd probably look at that opportunity and you'd go, I mean, I would if that was one of my babies.

• 22:23Speaker 02

  I've got to say yes.

• 22:24Speaker 03

  I've got to say yes, yeah.

• 22:25Speaker 02

  Got to, Stevie Wonder.

• 22:26Speaker 03

  Hundred percent, but she was more concerned about my mental health and rightly so, as she should. And that's good parenting, right? That's, right, I've, I could learn from that.

• 22:36Speaker 02

  What a mega mum.

• 22:37Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I say this as well to my friends, like when I speak about it all the time, I'm like, you know what, she done what she needed to do on this earth. And God needed a home. And what helps me is that when she was six, she kept saying, I just wanna be with my mum and dad. She, yeah, she would say that at times. And she also would see her mum, my nan, so there's a couple of dreams that she had of, my, actually, my grandad as well, I think was in the dream, but, but of them saying, come home. And she turned, I'm not ready yet. She told us that as well. So that she knew, my mum, it's like, it's like she knew things weren't great, but stayed very positive for us.

• 23:14Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 23:15Speaker 03

  As a family, as for her kids. She always kept saying, don't be, you lot crying, don't be crying over me in the hospital. Proper Jamaican woman, don't you dare be, you're coming in and cry. She was coming in, you'll be happy, you rejoice and we laugh and we talk, no crying. And then she would cry, we'd find out from the nurses that she was crying. And that's what breaks me. But she done so much on this earth, baby, with soul to soul, what she gave us.

• 23:41Speaker 02

  It's incredible, singing, your, your mum's gone, no Stevie.

• 23:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 23:45Speaker 02

  No, too young.

• 23:45Speaker 03

  I was upset because I was really just wanting to be like my mum.

• 23:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:50Speaker 03

  You know, she, on that phone call when he said it, she's in Australia, I'm in London, he's in LA, it's a freeway call. And I make him sing on the phone, because I'm like, well, it's obviously not you on the blow, I love, because you wouldn't be ringing me. If you knew my mum, you'd be ringing her in Australia. Well, let me tell you something.

• 24:06Speaker 02

  He didn't start singing.

• 24:07Speaker 03

  He started singing. Isn't she lovely? On the, on the blow. What? And I was like so apologetic, I'm so sorry, I disrespected you, duh, duh. So then my mum went, yeah, go on then, so you made Stevie Wonder sing, so you sing then, sing the song that you wrote the other day. And I sang, I wrote a song with my mum called, um, I Wanna Be Your Girl, never been released. And the chorus went, I wanna be your girl, like a little R and B tune. She'd maybe sing it on the phone. Mortified. And then he was like, I wanna talk to you, I'm about signing you to Motown. That's when I had to leave the conversations. In my head, I'm walking around the house going, grandad, I'm gonna get signed. Shanice, my sister, I'm gonna get signed, David, I'm gonna get signed. Mum rings me back, yeah, it's not happening, you need to stay in school. You've ruined my life.

• 24:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:52Speaker 03

  That's what she got.

• 24:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:54Speaker 03

  You've ruined my life, how could you do this to me? I could be a star, mum. No, you're not ready to be a star. You're ready to be a teenager and stay in school and be a child. You're going to be a child. And then she would say to me, imagine what you'd get up to, the influence you'd have around you at 12. How could I control that?

• 25:09Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 25:10Speaker 03

  And I just would be like, you said, what, what do you mean? I never understood it until I got into the business and then I understood.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  And can we just also give your mum a bit of context because your dad?

• 25:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:20Speaker 02

  Wasn't around.

• 25:21Speaker 03

  No, not really, no.

• 25:22Speaker 02

  You know.

• 25:23Speaker 03

  Sadly, he's around now, yeah.

• 25:24Speaker 02

  He wasn't, he wasn't a, a, an influence in home, it was your mum basically.

• 25:28Speaker 03

  Mum and my grandad and my aunt, just on you.

• 25:29Speaker 02

  And your, and your extra family, but really on your mum.

• 25:32Speaker 03

  Yes, everything on mummy, everything on mum.

• 25:34Speaker 02

  So you can understand, like, it's like, how can I take care of you if you're off at 12?

• 25:41Speaker 03

  You know, I said this to, to Darren the other day, we were having a hard day with the kids and I turned to him and I said, my mum had to do this at four.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:50Speaker 03

  We've got to.

• 25:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:51Speaker 03

  Make, that makes sense.

• 25:52Speaker 02

  It is amazing.

• 25:53Speaker 03

  It's wild. Having kids and juggling career, that's what she was doing. Making all these sacrifices by not being there, by being on tour to make the money. I get it now.

• 26:03Speaker 02

  What's one thing you'd love to be able to say you've done? Well, Monzo's sponsoring Begin Again to help us win some time back so we can do more of what we love, like finally doing that thing. I wanted to know what that thing was for you. So who have we got? So this is from Shelley in Portleish. Widowed at 32, she discovered sea swimming while living in Perth. When she returned home to landlocked Portleish, she started swimming in mountain waterfalls instead and founded the Mountain Mermaids Community.

• 26:35Speaker 04

  During grief, I had this annoying voice every morning, something terrible is going to happen today, you'll see. So I did something wild. I hiked up a mountain and I threw myself into a freezing waterfall. It was so cold, my brain went, see, thick and cold. And then silence. I literally tricked my brain with ice water. You don't always need to have your life together, you just need to jump.

• 27:02Speaker 02

  I loved what you said about the coldness of the water quietening your mind and how healing nature is. Thank you for sharing that. I'm sure it will help so many people at what is a very difficult time in life. That was lovely. Monzo puts your money to work in the background. Sorted, saved, sent where it needs to go, so you have got more time and headspace for the things that you actually want to do. What have you always wanted to try? Or have you already gone and done it? Head to the link in the description and tell me your story. Monzo current accounts are for 16 plus and UK residents. Ts and Cs apply. I love to dress up for you guys and I like putting an outfit together, but what I don't

• 27:43Speaker 02

  love is getting to the end of the month going, hang on, actually, how much have I spent? So let me show you this feature in Monzo who are sponsoring Begin Again. I've got a prop phone here, so I don't show the world how much I spend on clothes. Now, in Monzo, you can create these things called pots for whatever matters to you. This is Fab New Outfits Pot, but yours could be Date Night Pot or Let's Go Out Dancing Pot, a pot for those saucy books, you know, some of the ones you love. You decide how much goes in and that's your budget. That's your playground. And then every time you spend, you get an instant notification and trends show you exactly where all your money's been going.

• 28:24Speaker 02

  And I like that because budgeting shouldn't take the fun out of life. It should mean knowing what you can enjoy and enjoying it properly. My money's organised, my outfit is fabulous and wow, that's a fabulous life. So download Monzo and make a pot for something you love. Monzo current accounts are for 16 plus and UK residents. Ts and Cs apply. You were shown singing, you were kind of like teased a bit with the possibility of signing to Motown. That got taken away from you. You were a bit upset, but at 16, you made a decision

• 29:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:03Speaker 02

  to leave school

• 29:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:05Speaker 02

  and go and pursue

• 29:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:08Speaker 02

  a career in music.

• 29:09Speaker 03

  Yes, yep.

• 29:10Speaker 02

  How was your mum about that?

• 29:11Speaker 03

  Oh, upset. She wanted me to have Plan B. My dad was furious with me. I'll never forget, I ripped up those college papers and I said, it's not for me. I was actually 15 at the time, turning 16, right? And I said to her, five is my lucky number, so I want you to give me five years. That's an odd amount of time. Well, I said, well, at 20, I can still go back to college and I still be young enough to do it and get a job and then go into university. So I'm asking you to give me five years when I won the show at 20. My mum couldn't believe it. She was like, you need a Plan B. I was like, I don't need a Plan B. My Plan B is Plan A.

• 29:48Speaker 03

  And my Plan B is Plan, I said, you've done it. I said, I want to be just like you. I want to be a mum and I want to be a singer. So let me get the singing right. Let me meet the man of my dreams at some point and then let me become a mum.

• 29:59Speaker 02

  And here you are.

• 30:00Speaker 03

  And here we are, right?

• 30:01Speaker 02

  You've done it all.

• 30:02Speaker 03

  And my dad was like, basically used to say to me, you really think singing's going to work out? And I was like, I really believe it. It was like, you need to be a doctor or you need to be a lawyer. Those are the two things you want to be. And I was like, I don't. I do if it's the backup plan, but the A, the A choice here is singing and you've got to support me on this. And he's always been supportive, don't get me wrong. He just wanted me to have that Plan B. My dad is, you know, he's a realist, I guess, in a way. And singing doesn't always work out for everyone. And he didn't want me working the circuit for the rest of my life and doing pubs and clubs and stuff. And I get that now that I look back.

• 30:35Speaker 02

  So what was amazing, because that first year that when you were 16

• 30:38Speaker 03

  And the X Factor.

• 30:39Speaker 02

  And you went for X Factor. So talk us through that experience.

• 30:42Speaker 03

  So I'm really, that experience was hard because I wasn't really talking to my mum. So my mum and I stopped speaking for two and a half years, which was awful. And my dad stepped up in those two and a half years and was there for me, which was great, which was great, right? And I was living with my ex at the time and that's when I was going through a really bad abusive relationship.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  The ex you were talking about before, yeah.

• 31:03Speaker 03

  So it was really bad. My mum didn't actually know what was going on. I never shared it with anyone and I told her when I finally had the guts to leave him after I got hit one last time.

• 31:12Speaker 02

  Those kind of controlling people as well, they want to, they want to keep you away from people like your mum who keep you safe.

• 31:17Speaker 03

  Absolutely, absolutely.

• 31:19Speaker 02

  Little voices, you don't need them.

• 31:21Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I just never forget, I've just never spoken about this, but I will today because it's helpful for others if they need to get out of these situations. I got dragged down those stairs one last time and I walked out barefoot, ran to a post, sorry, a telephone box, which I no longer ran anymore. And I rang my brother David and I said, get me home immediately. And he sent me a car where I was, ordered me a pizza. And my mum walked in from a gig and said, I told you you'd be back and I told you so. She was quite firm with me.

• 31:52Speaker 02

  God, that is

• 31:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was tough. And I told her, yeah, you were right. And I shared a single bed with my sister and I needed time. And I didn't tell my mum what I was going through. And then it was my mum that was like, you're auditioning for X Factor again. So when I was 16 and went on it, I went for X Factor, sorry, I moved forward quite quickly, but I went for X Factor and Louis Walsh at judges' houses told me I was too young and it was, I needed to go home. And I'm so pleased.

• 32:24Speaker 02

  So how did you feel? Did you feel pleased straight away?

• 32:26Speaker 03

  No, God, no, I was heartbroken. I even went on, I want to say, was it called GMTV back then? Because it was GMTV and Dave Ray was on, one of those shows, right? One of them, I went on and I was like, if it was open to, they've opened it up to 16 year olds and you know, no 16 year olds have gone through and it's really devastating and blah, blah, blah. But actually, it was the right thing for me because I never would have been able to go back. Once you do the lives, they never let you come back if you don't win, right? So I was never going to win. It was Shane Ward's year and that was his time. And Louis, and later, you know, years later, Louis actually said to me, I felt like you were going through stuff and that's why I felt like you couldn't go through. And he was right, he just didn't know what I was going through. And then I went back home two years later, 18 and a half, I think I was, yep, yep, two

• 33:11Speaker 03

  and a half years later. And that's when my mum was like, at 19, you're auditioning again. And I was like, no, there's no way I can go back, the shame and humiliation, I would never get through. And she, off she goes to Emirates, gets two, two of the numbers and we missed the solo auditions. So she was like, we're going in as a band. And I went, well, what's our name then? Mother and Daughter. I said, well, first of all, that's rubbish, isn't it? Because who's going to believe that we're called Mother and Daughter as a band? That's the worst name you could think of. She goes, well, it doesn't have to make sense. It doesn't, nothing needs to make sense. I just need you to get through.

• 33:44Speaker 02

  Wait, so wait, let me just get this right. You had missed the solo

• 33:48Speaker 03

  Solo, yeah, auditions.

• 33:50Speaker 02

  So you had to go as a band

• 33:52Speaker 03

  I had a band.

• 33:52Speaker 02

  And your mum was like, I'm in a band with you, we're called Mother and Daughter. Love her.

• 33:57Speaker 03

  Right.

• 33:57Speaker 02

  Okay, good.

• 33:58Speaker 03

  Then she goes, we're singing Ain't No Body Shaka Khan because we sing in the pubs and we knew the harmonies, like, you know, like it was nothing to do with our eyes closed. She went, Alex, I'm going to sound like a dying cat. That's how I'm going to sound. So she goes, yeah, and she was like, just acknowledge the fact that I sound awful and just make it look like whatever. So acting skills have got to come into play. So she's giving it large and I'm looking at her like, you're mental. And then they go, right, right, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. So this is in front of producers, not the actual, not in front of cameras. And they went, oh, we're not too sure about this. And we, we think we're going to say yes to daughter, no to mum and split you guys up. And she went, and that was always the plan. Flicked her hair, walked out. I thought, Jesus Christ, take the wheel.

• 34:43Speaker 03

  What's she doing? And I was just embarrassed, I was so embarrassed, I was so embarrassed. I thought, this is never going to work. And then a lady come up to me and says, you need to come back tomorrow wearing the same outfit and we're auditioning you by yourself. So off I go, wash the outfit. My sister got me from Primark, it was fantastic. Got me a little hairpiece, tied it up and go back the next day at nine o'clock. They didn't see me till nearly 7pm. They said, make sure you're here by nine. I was there by nine, there before nine. Mum's there with me, the whole family, we're waiting the whole day. They let everyone audition, had me waiting the whole day. I'm the last person they auditioned. And as I walk in, they go, Simon goes, I've met you before. And I went, yes, years ago, but yes.

• 35:27Speaker 03

  And Louis goes, you were a part of my team. And I said, yes, it was me. And then I sat, actually sung Aretha Franklin, Natural Woman.

• 35:37Speaker 02

  Oh, yes.

• 35:37Speaker 03

  Which they never aired. And then Simon says, I don't want to hear that song. I said, well, okay, well, that's the audition. So no, no, no, I want to hear what you sung three years ago. Because I want to compare. And I thought, oh, okay. So that's why the audition, when you see it, I start going, and I clear my throat because I've already just been singing. So then I sing Saving All My Love For You, Whitney Houston. And then it all erupted in the room and it was amazing. And then the full circle moment is then my first ever theatre show is then playing Whitney Houston

• 36:12Speaker 02

  In?

• 36:12Speaker 03

  Bodyguard. So I auditioned with Shaka, that's my first ever originating role. Then that audition in front of the cameras is Whitney, that's my first ever role in theatre. Oh, it's just, the universe has been Do you get where I'm going with this? It's so kind to me.

• 36:31Speaker 02

  Wait, can I just say something? I think, wasn't, wasn't the final, I think it was something like eight million votes were cast that, and you got over 50% of them.

• 36:40Speaker 03

  Did I?

• 36:41Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 36:41Speaker 03

  Oh my God.

• 36:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I've got goosebumps.

• 36:44Speaker 03

  Well, I remember hearing eight million votes, oh, wow. Yeah, mind blowing. And I wasn't favourite to win. I don't know if you know that, I wasn't the favourite to win. No, no, no.

• 36:55Speaker 02

  Can I just say something?

• 36:56Speaker 03

  No.

• 36:57Speaker 02

  Beyonce.

• 36:57Speaker 03

  Oh God, can we talk about it?

• 36:59Speaker 02

  I've got to say, I can't tell you how many times I've watched that. Just because of the joy of seeing your face.

• 37:09Speaker 03

  In disbelief.

• 37:11Speaker 02

  You're going.

• 37:13Speaker 03

  She's singing, I go, oh, yeah, no, I know, I know. But how lucky am I, right? No, when you really think about it.

• 37:22Speaker 02

  No, but can I tell you something so cute? There'll be people in I'm Every Woman going, oh.

• 37:29Speaker 03

  Do you know what I mean? They'll be going, doing the same thing about you.

• 37:33Speaker 02

  But like, I also feel like, um, watching, watching that clip of you and Beyonce on X Factor and listening to your voice, which, which was freaking amazing. But what's interesting is listening to you now in I'm Every Woman, in comparison to even what you were with Beyonce. How far you've come since then. I mean, you were absolutely breathtaking then.

• 37:59Speaker 03

  I can, from when I listen to like, for example, Hallelujah.

• 38:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:02Speaker 03

  Oh, my god.

• 38:03Speaker 02

  Sounds so different. Can I just say, Hallelujah was.

• 38:08Speaker 03

  I was lucky to get that chance.

• 38:09Speaker 02

  Extraordinary. I love the way you keep saying you were lucky.

• 38:14Speaker 03

  But you know why? It's not my version of the song. Can I be honest who's it is? My mum's. She recorded it on a dictaphone and said, this is how you're gonna sing it. So it's not, it's not my take, it's my mum's take. I'm just delivering what she told me to do.

• 38:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:29Speaker 03

  I used to write, I've kept a diary since I was nine.

• 38:31Speaker 02

  Have you?

• 38:32Speaker 03

  I've got a diary since I was nine, I've got all of them.

• 38:33Speaker 02

  Is it brilliant going back?

• 38:34Speaker 03

  It's strange, because some of them, I'm upset with my mum.

• 38:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:38Speaker 03

  She's away again. She's not here. And then you see the relationship with Shaka and her daughter.

• 38:45Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 38:46Speaker 03

  And why it triggers me and why I'm in tears.

• 38:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:48Speaker 03

  Because that is a reflection of what I went through with my mum. And I'm playing it on stage. But now as the mum, feeling sorry for the daughter going, oh, I get why you're upset. I get why you're upset. Because now I've, I've been there. And it's so tough. And that's why I'm saying, after the show, I will have to do therapy just to release how I feel. Because a lot's coming up for me. And it's the method acting, it's not really helpful, but it is helpful, because I'm do, I'm doing a job, I'm not a trained actress, so I have to go with gut and method acting to deliver. But I've got no techniques, because I've not learnt any, do you know what I mean? I've got nothing.

• 39:25Speaker 02

  Well, you've got nothing to protect yourself.

• 39:26Speaker 03

  Yeah. And that's where I struggle. Because it's, it's a challenging role. Like, you know, I've been blessed with roles, but none of them are a story of someone that's here and playing in front of them.

• 39:38Speaker 02

  Can we just talk about how she came the first night? What was that like?

• 39:41Speaker 03

  That was wild, okay? Like, so she was there, and god bless her, she's tired, you know, just, just landed. She's promoting her album, you know, and she looks fantastic, by the way. Wow. I just, and I could just, and smelling her, I was like, you smell amazing.

• 40:00Speaker 03

  And I was just like, how are you doing this? And she was like, I'm tired. And then she called me her spirit, her spiritual daughter. And, um, and I never forget, when we were in rehearsals and she turned up once, she just kept saying to me, you remind me of me. And she just kept touching my face, and she goes, you actually could be my daughter. And I was like, oh my god. Like, what a woman. And I just kept saying to her, when she was there the other night, and she's saying, no, I'm tired, I'm tired. And I was like, yeah, but I got you. We've all got you. We're gonna hold you up tonight. And I said, you're tired because it's, well, you're about to see your life on stage, and that is overwhelming. You don't wanna see this. But you're, we need to, we need the constructive criticism, we need to know where we've gone wrong, maybe, we need to know if we're, if we're delivering this right. It's your story. And your story has to be shared to inspire other people.

• 40:46Speaker 03

  And she just looked at me, she said, okay, you're right. I said, yeah, we're all here to support you.

• 40:50Speaker 02

  But she must have been so grateful at you, because those words are just what she would have needed to hear.

• 40:57Speaker 03

  Maybe, but I also can't imagine how she was feeling.

• 41:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:01Speaker 03

  And you know how heavy her show is, her life is, or has been, and you're about to witness it. And we don't do it halfway. Like, we are going full out. And then I said to her, I tell you what, I was just gonna lift you up, I'm gonna bring my kids out. Well, that lifted her.

• 41:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, my eldest just kept going, you're so beautiful, you're so beautiful.

• 41:20Speaker 02

  Really? Are you serious?

• 41:22Speaker 03

  Oh god, yeah.

• 41:22Speaker 02

  Oh my.

• 41:23Speaker 03

  You're so beautiful, you're so beautiful, stroking her hair. My eldest was like, Shaka Khan, because they know who she is.

• 41:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:31Speaker 03

  They know who she is, because I play her music, I play her videos now, and they go, it's mummy. It's like, no, no, no, that's not mummy, I'm playing her. Trying to make them understand. And they're not understanding. But then they saw her and they went, it's mummy and Shaka Khan. And I was like, okay, so now you're getting it.

• 41:44Speaker 02

  In the same room.

• 41:45Speaker 03

  In the same room. And they were very confused at first, because they were going, mummy, mummy? And I was like, no, that's not me.

• 41:53Speaker 03

  And it was just amazing. It was just like, she was really lovely with them and I just got a picture of them and I thought to myself, in 20 years, will I show you guys this?

• 42:02Speaker 02

  They're not gonna believe it.

• 42:03Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 42:04Speaker 02

  Yeah. What a moment.

• 42:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:06Speaker 02

  How old are they now?

• 42:07Speaker 03

  Okay, so.

• 42:08Speaker 02

  Is this okay?

• 42:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:09Speaker 02

  Yeah?

• 42:10Speaker 03

  Yeah. One, uh, okay, so they're both boys.

• 42:14Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 42:15Speaker 03

  I should still say it, because it's really hard to just, you know, like.

• 42:18Speaker 02

  Can we just discuss what you've just done there? Because just in case anybody's watching and they don't know

• 42:23Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 42:24Speaker 02

  how private you are and how much you guard your children's safety and privacy. And I respect you

• 42:30Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 42:30Speaker 02

  and Dan so much for that. But it's very important, having children, especially when both are famous.

• 42:36Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 42:37Speaker 02

  And you know what that entails.

• 42:39Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I think for, for us, like, it's the one thing that was for us.

• 42:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:45Speaker 03

  So we've never revealed their genders. And of course, I post them, put little hearts in their faces. It's quite clear that they're boys, but I've never actually said it in public, right? And it's only simply because of protecting them. Um, but also protecting us in that little bubble. We were in such a gorgeous, we still are in that little bubble. And when they were first born, they're only, they're 14 months in between. The eldest is, he's four, the youngest is just about to turn three. And I'm not gonna lie to you, without having my mum there, tough. Darren's mum's in Ireland, so I don't even have my mother-in-law there. Um, his family are all the way over there.

• 43:26Speaker 03

  My family are scattered, and it's like, we've got no one. So we've got to try our best to make do with cousins and family people that can come in in, in their own time to help us out, because we don't really have anyone to help. And, and people have lives, right? So you, you can only depend on people when you can, or when they're free. Um, and I remember being asked about this, and I can say this now with a smile without crying, because I'm, I've not got hormones racing around my body, but I, I got asked on Loose Women, why are you so protective? And I just burst into tears. And I'd just given birth to my second born, at the time, I think it was, and and I remember being quite tearful about it, because I was so protective over them. And now I'm just like,

• 44:10Speaker 03

  I said to Darren every day, I'm like, it's so hard for me to, to, to not say they're boys. I'm proud of them. I'm proud of my boys. And it's so lovely to finally say that, do you know what I mean? Um.

• 44:21Speaker 02

  You are being protective.

• 44:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:23Speaker 02

  And that's a lovely thing.

• 44:24Speaker 03

  So we don't show their faces, no one knows their names, but.

• 44:27Speaker 02

  I've never released a picture of my children ever. My middle child, my middle child wanted to go public at 19.

• 44:34Speaker 03

  Right. And that's okay.

• 44:35Speaker 02

  My other two don't want to.

• 44:37Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 44:37Speaker 02

  And you can't find pictures of them online anyway.

• 44:39Speaker 03

  There you go. There you go. And that's all right.

• 44:42Speaker 02

  19 and 24.

• 44:43Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 44:44Speaker 02

  And it's nice for them.

• 44:45Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 44:45Speaker 02

  You know, my daughter, my daughter works in an NHS hospital and nobody knows who she is.

• 44:50Speaker 03

  When they get older, if they say, oh, I wanna have an Instagram and do whatever, that's absolutely your choice. You do you, darlings. You do what you want. But for now.

• 44:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:00Speaker 03

  I'm enjoying this. I'm enjoying the fact that, they, they don't really know what I do. They think I just have some makeup on and go on stage and sing. And they don't really understand it. They don't really get it yet, do you know what I mean? They're not in an age where they get it. They just go to me, mummy, are you gonna go and be Shaka Khan today? And I go, yes, baby. And then they cry at the door, going, I wanna come, I wanna. And I'm, and I'm torn. It's really hard, because it's quite a heavy show that I don't want them to watch, but they've seen bits of it twice. And then sometimes, well, my eldest, um, boy goes to me, because he gets it, he watches Panto and stuff like that, and he came to see me play Captain Hook last year. Obsessed with Panto, obsessed, and goes to me to this day, months later, mummy, if you're not Shaka Khan, are you gonna be Captain Hook?

• 45:44Speaker 03

  And I'm like, no, baby, that's done as well.

• 45:46Speaker 02

  You're like the coolest person in the world.

• 45:48Speaker 03

  Honestly, they think I'm really cool and it's really lovely, but, but it's nice, because they don't get it. They just think mummy, um, dresses up and, and sings, I feel for you, which is their favourite tune. And then they get up and they start breakdancing on the floor, because in the video, they've got breakdancing, and they're copying it all. So if they're not in the music industry, I will be shocked, because they've got some rhythm. I tell you that now, I'll show you some videos after this, they are so special. They're so wonderful.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  Do you know, it's funny, um, I, I was telling you about boys.

• 46:14Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 46:15Speaker 02

  The other night. And I, I, when my son took my head in his hands when he was a little kid. And he used to look at me and I used to think, I don't think I've ever been loved like this.

• 46:27Speaker 03

  Right, right. Can we talk about that?

• 46:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:30Speaker 03

  So I sleep with my eldest.

• 46:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:32Speaker 03

  To just to make sure he sleeps, right?

• 46:34Speaker 02

  Oh, I did a really good interview with, um, Catherine, um, Ryan, and she was talking about it's a good thing.

• 46:43Speaker 03

  To co-sleep.

• 46:43Speaker 02

  To co-sleep and to let your kids feel safe.

• 46:46Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 46:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 46:47Speaker 03

  I want Darren to hear that.

• 46:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, Darren.

• 46:49Speaker 03

  Because he, right.

• 46:50Speaker 02

  Darren.

• 46:50Speaker 03

  Right, Darren.

• 46:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:51Speaker 03

  Because he tells me off. He's like, you need to start, like, I just had a conversation last night, and I got a little bit upset.

• 46:57Speaker 02

  It won't happen forever.

• 46:58Speaker 03

  And that's what I said to him, it's temporary.

• 47:01Speaker 02

  They're not gonna be in your bed when they're.

• 47:02Speaker 03

  It's because he misses me. And he tells me that, and he's like, Alex, I miss you, and I want you back in our room. And I'm like, yeah, but baby, you snore. Got to figure that out darling, cause I need to sing and if I ain't sleeping, that ain't working.

• 47:15Speaker 03

  But then I'm not sleeping with with my eldest son because I'm not not getting good quality sleep is what I mean. I'm getting a little, a solid amount of four, four to five hours max, I get a night probably. If I take myself to bed by midnight, cause he's up by five. So I'll give you the difference between my two sons. The eldest is so like me, a thousand miles per hour, energetic, bam bam bam, everything's go, go, go, go, go. And that's because when I, I think it's because anyway, when I was pregnant with him, I was doing Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. So he was hearing, it was red and you know, and all the time, hearing a live band. So he's all about the music. He's like lively, duh, duh, duh. Always comes to the gym with me in the mornings when I'm matter of training, he's upstairs. And I've got videos of him with the, with his little plastic weights going, come on mommy, we're strong, we can do this together. I'm your best friend. That's what he says to me.

• 48:00Speaker 03

  It's amazing. And then my youngest is now getting into the dancing thing, right? So he's starting to, but he's chill. He's like Darren. Darren's very relaxed. Everything he takes in stride, nothing bothers him. That's my youngest son. So I've got one like me, one like Darren. But it's so funny how they both are together and boys together are on fire.

• 48:20Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 48:21Speaker 03

  Right? The energy, they keep me on my toes. I've lost weight because of them. I'm like, I'm just like, these two are wild. And now we want more.

• 48:30Speaker 02

  Run them ragged.

• 48:31Speaker 03

  Yes, you do. And even then, it still doesn't work. It doesn't work. So I don't know what's gonna make them work. So I just bought them, you know, calms. Oh yeah, they've got a kid's one.

• 48:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:40Speaker 03

  And I said to Darren, I wonder if we should start giving them this, cause I have calms all the time, which is great. But Darren's like, no, it, they're boys. It is what it is. Cause he's got a brother, he gets it, right? But I just think, and this is, I've got to say this, I never thought I'd meet someone on an online dating site. And that's how I met Darren. And I have to give thanks to my manager, um Nathan, for making me go there, okay? With signing up for the site and actually agreeing to meet up with Darren, okay? Cause it's all on him.

• 49:06Speaker 02

  I mean.

• 49:06Speaker 03

  I'm not gonna lie to you, I didn't know who he was when I met him. I had no idea.

• 49:09Speaker 02

  It's probably quite good for him.

• 49:10Speaker 03

  He said he was an astronaut and a dolphin trainer. Darling, I believed him.

• 49:15Speaker 02

  Wait.

• 49:15Speaker 03

  No, no, no, I'm gonna give it to you.

• 49:17Speaker 02

  I love that.

• 49:18Speaker 03

  I'm gonna give it to you.

• 49:19Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 49:20Speaker 03

  It said on that site, he's a, an astronaut and a dolphin trainer. And I went, this is fucking brilliant.

• 49:26Speaker 02

  What a guy.

• 49:28Speaker 03

  Right. Six months up there, six months down there, don't have seen for six months. No, I sound like an absolute man.

• 49:35Speaker 02

  No, but can I tell you something?

• 49:37Speaker 03

  I sound like an idiot.

• 49:38Speaker 02

  This'll make you feel better.

• 49:39Speaker 03

  Believed him.

• 49:39Speaker 02

  Somebody told me once that they'd taken the word gullible out of the Oxford dictionary. And I went, really?

• 49:46Speaker 03

  That's what I see. Okay, okay. We're, we're, okay.

• 49:51Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 49:51Speaker 03

  We have a great connection.

• 49:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 49:53Speaker 03

  I believed him, called Nathan and went, my manager, who I talk about all the time. Guess what I found? Babe, this handsome man's just come up. He's an astronaut and dolphin trainer. It's amazing. Don't have to see him for six months, cause he'll be up there. Alexandra, like the two go together. I said, what, what? Why can't they? And he was like, Alex, Alex. And we're really having this conversation, Alex. I was like, here we are, cause I believe. Is it not real? And he went, I'm gonna Google him. So we did. Darling, he's the goalkeeper for West Ham. I said, X. No, don't want a footballer, go away. Did you? Yes, I asked him three times. Three times because I was so burnt by picking the wrong men. That I painted him with the same brush.

• 50:38Speaker 02

  It must be.

• 50:38Speaker 03

  No. Get away from me.

• 50:40Speaker 02

  I can understand that.

• 50:41Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:42Speaker 02

  Because I think historically, we look at.

• 50:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:44Speaker 02

  Footballers and they must be naughty.

• 50:47Speaker 03

  You know, and that's not always the case.

• 50:49Speaker 02

  No.

• 50:49Speaker 03

  Not, no two humans are the same. And um called Nathan, I went, oh god, this hottie's come up again. This is now the fourth time. And he went, Alex, you can't paint everyone with the same brush. He's coming up for a reason. Just press the heart button and see if you connect. Well, press the heart button and we connect. I went, well, I'm not talking to him. I'm not talking to him. He's not gonna hear from me. And I heard from him first. It took me four months to meet up with him, cause I was so nervous. And I took him to where I'd used to take my mum for picnics in Hampstead.

• 51:19Speaker 02

  Really?

• 51:19Speaker 03

  And we went on a dog walk when we were finally allowed to like meet up outside and stuff.

• 51:23Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 51:24Speaker 03

  And the rules had all changed, cause it's during Covid.

• 51:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:26Speaker 03

  And I took all four, all of my dogs. I thought, let me bring a handful here. Let me see how he goes. Let me see what he's like.

• 51:32Speaker 02

  You handled this.

• 51:33Speaker 03

  Dog whisperer. He had my puppy off a lead. So what are you doing? So what are you doing? He went, don't worry about it. I went, well, don't worry about it. I've just met you. What do you mean, don't worry about it? And what got me was his Irish accent. So of course I knew he was Irish. And then when he sent me a voice note, I went wild, cause he sounded so sexy.

• 51:50Speaker 02

  God, how gorgeous.

• 51:52Speaker 03

  He's a good guy. He's been raised right. His parents have done a fantastic job on both of them, him and his brother.

• 51:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:59Speaker 03

  And the top, the creme de la creme is, he's a fantastic father. I'll never forget the day I told him I was pregnant. Oh my god, he was cooking me my favourite meal, spag bol.

• 52:11Speaker 02

  I, can I just wait? Can I just, I thought I couldn't love you more.

• 52:15Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. Say your favourite meal.

• 52:18Speaker 02

  But you just said spag bol is your.

• 52:21Speaker 03

  My favourite. It's my favourite, yeah. We have it at least once a week.

• 52:25Speaker 02

  You make it.

• 52:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:26Speaker 02

  Homemade.

• 52:26Speaker 03

  Homemade. Oh yeah, all, all the time.

• 52:29Speaker 02

  And you do the freezer bags.

• 52:30Speaker 03

  Babes, yes, yes, yes. The one thing I do wanna try. I, I sent it to Darren. I saw this reel on Instagram. I know I sound like an idiot, but I wanna try it when you put like, um paper on the table. You pour out the spaghetti on the, on the table, put the sauce on top and everyone just digs in. That's what I wanna do. So I wanna do it with the kids and.

• 52:48Speaker 02

  That's a great idea.

• 52:49Speaker 03

  I think it's fun. Yeah, it's fun for the children. So definitely wanna try that. Yeah, yeah. So I think we'll try that next week. Hmm, just got to get a night off. That's never gonna happen. I'll try it after shakka.

• 53:00Speaker 02

  After shakka.

• 53:00Speaker 03

  On a Friday night when I'm home. That's what we'll do. After shakka, I've sent you photos. But yeah, he's an amazing dad and he's such a gorgeous human.

• 53:07Speaker 02

  Isn't it interesting how when somebody is a great parent.

• 53:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:12Speaker 02

  To their kids, how attractive.

• 53:14Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 53:15Speaker 02

  That is, this is such a beautiful thing, isn't it?

• 53:18Speaker 03

  It really is. And don't get me wrong, look, we all know relationships take work. It takes the effort. It has its ups, it has its downs. We've never had a full on blown argument. We've been together five years. I refuse to raise my voice.

• 53:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:33Speaker 03

  I refuse. And he knows that. If we have an issue, we discuss it as adults.

• 53:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:40Speaker 03

  We're raising your voice for it. Don't, don't shout at me. I'm not shouting at you.

• 53:43Speaker 02

  That's healthy.

• 53:43Speaker 03

  And always respect each other within these discussions. You never swear. You don't, none of that attitude. No one needs to know that. Talk, speak, find a solution, get on with it. That's my attitude. And he loves that about me. Cause I refuse, I refuse to have a shouting match with you. A, because I don't have the energy for it. And B, I'm not gonna lie to you, that. I'm not losing my voice for an argument with a man. Not a chance. I want my partner to be my best friend.

• 54:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:12Speaker 03

  Right? And, and kids came quick for us. We'd never been on a holiday together by ourselves. We'd only been together eight months. We were saving embryos. In the middle of that, I got the call. And my GP said to me, the doctor said to me. Do you really want me to find out for your bloods if you're pregnant? No. Cause you're, you're giving me vibes that you are. And I turned to him and said, you ain't Jesus. You don't know if I'm pregnant, darling. I ain't pregnant. So we're saving these embryos, darling. I'm not ready for a child. A few hours later.

• 54:35Speaker 02

  Got a different idea.

• 54:37Speaker 03

  Absolutely. A few hours later, I'll never forget, I was wiping off my makeup in that bathroom.

• 54:43Speaker 03

  And I sat there, I stripped my clothes off, ready to get in that shower. She calls me. And because my doctor's like a friend as well. I looked at the phone, forgetting that I'd been at the doctors, cause I wondered what she wants. Gullible me, right? Silly old me. I remember looking at the phone. I remember going, are you okay? Why are you ringing me at this hour? And that's exactly what I said. And she went.

• 55:04Speaker 03

  You don't know why I'm ringing you. And I went, are your kids okay? You okay? Everything okay? Everything's fine, Alex. Are you sitting down? I said, I can be. I'm back to walk in the shower. She goes, you might wanna sit down. So I sat down and then what happens now? She goes, you have no idea why I'm ringing you. I said, no, I don't, what, what, I don't understand what the problem is. I'm such an idiot. Honestly, sometimes I don't, I don't remember in the real world. She goes, darling, you are very, very pregnant. And I remember dropping that phone, screaming, crying, going, no, I can't be. It's not now. It's not the time. I need my mum, I need my mum, I need my mum.

• 55:44Speaker 03

  And I couldn't stop crying.

• 55:46Speaker 02

  Oh, Alex.

• 55:47Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's like, I can't, I can't, how am I gonna look after baby?

• 55:52Speaker 03

  And she went, this is not your doctor speaking now, this is your friend. You're having that fucking baby. You've prayed for a good man. All you've talked to me about is that you want the right man. I've met him, I love him, I love him for you. You've finally done it. Everything you've prayed for, you've got, and you're telling me, no? I'm not letting you not have this baby, you're having this baby. And then she goes, I'm speaking, she was a mother. And she gave it to me. Oh, my god. And I remember shaking, telling Darren. Cause I remember giving him, giving it to him, saying, I'm not ready for a child, we're not having a child right now. Let's wait, I've got this big job coming up. So much for doing sister acting, having some.

• 56:31Speaker 02

  How, how was he?

• 56:33Speaker 03

  He was, oh god, baby, he was chopping up them onions.

• 56:37Speaker 03

  And I remember strapping the pregnancy test to a rose, cause he, he always, doesn't do as much anymore. Hint, hint, he always buy me flowers weekly. And, you know, look, kids are, you know, they're here and there's a lot going on, but he used to buy me lilies and roses, my favourites, every single week for that fail. So I pinched one of the roses and I strapped it around, I didn't, couldn't think of anything creative. And then I basically tied it around the rose and I said, just stop chopping them onions for a minute, and he's singing away to the bloody song. I put, said, Alexa, stop, stop the music. I said, are you listening to me? I said, please, I've got something to tell you, and I really wanna tell you something. Please stop chopping them onions and close your eyes and hold your hands out. He was, alright, Alex. Puts his glass of wine down, holds his hands out, close, what is it now?

• 57:21Speaker 03

  And I put the rose in his hands. And he just looked up and he went, no. No. I said, yeah. Yeah. He was like, you're pregnant? I was like, yeah. And it's my lucky number, we're five weeks gone. And he just gave me the biggest hug and he went, but why do you look so sad? And I said, I'm scared. So I'm not ready, I said, I don't know if I'm ready for my life to change. That much, like, I'm not sure how ready I am. Giving birth scares me. And he was like, it's gonna be fine, everything's gonna be fine, everything's gonna be fine, I've got you, everything's gonna be fine. Said, but what about my work? And that's all I could think about was, but what about work? How am I gonna make money if I'm pregnant? And he was like, pregnancy doesn't stop a woman from working.

• 58:06Speaker 03

  You can work, you stop when you're ready. I said, alright. But there's one big job I've gotta give up. And I had to give it up because I was due the, the two weeks before we were opening. And I was gonna, and I, and I had the thought process of actually giving birth and going, maybe I could still do it. And they were like, my agent was like, no, you're not.

• 58:24Speaker 02

  You're so like me.

• 58:25Speaker 03

  Yeah. My agent was like, what if you have a cesarean? And what if you can't move?

• 58:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:29Speaker 03

  You don't know how your birth plan's gonna go, you cannot sign up for this, you've not even been announced, it's fine.

• 58:35Speaker 02

  But you, you and I are self-employed. And I know that, um, you know, there's no way I could have taken a year out. And how, how, how long was it before you had to go back to work?

• 58:48Speaker 03

  Just under two months, I went back and done the gig, my first gig was in Monaco. At a private event, took the baby with me.

• 58:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. I used to take the baby to Big Brother.

• 58:56Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, see?

• 58:57Speaker 02

  Breastfeeding in between.

• 58:58Speaker 03

  Oh, god, same.

• 58:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 58:59Speaker 03

  Gosh, right. So, and this is why I say, again, lucky, really like, blessed to have amazing people in my life. I went and got the passport in time for myself and my, my newborn. Went to Monaco, done a gig and I thought, oh, wow, like, this is okay, I've, I got back on, it wasn't easy, I didn't even know if I had a voice. And then went back on tour.

• 59:19Speaker 02

  Your voice, did your voice change?

• 59:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:22Speaker 02

  Did it?

• 59:22Speaker 03

  Completely changed, even, it was even worse on the second pregnancy. I couldn't, I had to re-record my whole album. My vibrato was funny, I, I just couldn't sustain the power, had no power on the second baby. First one, I, I was pregnant and felt powerful during the pregnancy, doing eight shows a week. I stopped at eight and a half months, gave birth two weeks later after coming off tour. Another little bit of a regret, I should have probably stopped sooner, but I was so in love with the show and I was, and I was in a happy place, actually, maybe that's not a regret. But I wanted more time with Darren. And I didn't get more time with him. Two weeks later, here's the first born. And then seven months later, I'm like, right, ready to get my life back, you know, I was in panto with Dawn French, it was amazing.

• 1:00:06Speaker 03

  At the Palladium, I'm breastfeeding in, in between scenes and my baby's at ease there and it's wonderful.

• 1:00:12Speaker 02

  To be able to get pregnant while you're breastfeeding.

• 1:00:14Speaker 03

  Darling, I did. I remember, I remember going on a little diet just to get myself back into shape. And I called my manager and went, I'm not gonna lie, this is exactly what I said, I've lost a fucking pound in a week. I was like, what is this shit? I said I should have lost at least two to three pounds this week, I've nailed it, I've stuck to the plan, I've drank me water. Then Darren drank a coffee. And I went, bleh.

• 1:00:44Speaker 03

  And I was like, oh my god, hold on, I've stopped drinking coffee now for two weeks because I don't like the taste, hold on, well, this is exactly what happened the last time. The smell, and I turned it down, I was like, you are making me feel sick. Can you move from me, please? Can you move? Cause you just drank a coffee. Oh my god, I think I'm pregnant again. He went, no, you're not pregnant, Alex, come on, that was ridiculous, you can't get pregnant when you're breastfeeding. Lies and deceit. Lies and deceit, I got pregnant. And then again, I'm not gonna lie to you. I cried again.

• 1:01:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, not ready, too soon.

• 1:01:17Speaker 03

  Seven months, my baby was seven months and I was like, how am I gonna cope?

• 1:01:23Speaker 02

  And also, I think you asked yourself that question of how am I gonna love too?

• 1:01:27Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:01:28Speaker 02

  How do I magnify the love?

• 1:01:29Speaker 03

  Thank you. And weirdly, I'd done this weird thing that I've never watched back, we were keeping a little video vlog of our, our first born. So we could show him things when he's older. And I whacked out that camera and I, and I filmed an apology video for my son. Saying, I'm sorry, I'm not gonna have the energy or the time to give you everything I want to give you because now I'm pregnant with another baby. And I just wanted to apologize to you now that you'll never know. How sorry I am, I won't have the time or the energy, then I feel sick. I was very sick on my second pregnancy, very sick.

• 1:02:05Speaker 02

  What with them, that proper?

• 1:02:07Speaker 03

  Oh, oh, of course you had preeclampsia. Didn't catch it, yeah.

• 1:02:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that was really, really very dangerous, right, for you and for the baby.

• 1:02:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I had to deliver a month early.

• 1:02:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:20Speaker 03

  That was very scary. And also I didn't realise how sick I was until Darren only told me, I think, three months ago. He said, did you know how, we had an open conversation and I said to him, I now want you to tell me how bad it was now that we're past it and I'm back to wanting another baby. Now that I'm safe and we've been cleared. And he said it was bad to the point where I'd probably tell you, if you don't want one, I'd be happy with you not having any more. And I was like, what? You want six kids? What do you mean? I was that bad? He was like, you nearly died. Like.

• 1:02:49Speaker 02

  It is life in a preeclampsia, it's very serious.

• 1:02:51Speaker 03

  I didn't realise. And I think I was in a little bit of denial and I'll never forget, I was meant to have my baby shower the day that I delivered. And I was like, they were like, what, you know, we need to keep you in. And I was like, you're not keeping me in, so I tried to discharge myself. And all of a sudden, I couldn't see, all these nurses are rushing in, they had migraine, couldn't open my eyes. And about seven, eight nurses rushing in and literally put me, strapped me on the bed. And said, you cannot leave, you have to deliver this baby in the next 24 hours. And I was like, you're all so dramatic.

• 1:03:25Speaker 03

  I just didn't know.

• 1:03:25Speaker 02

  So lucky.

• 1:03:26Speaker 03

  Yeah. But now I'm ready for more. I'm, I'm not ready right now, now, I'm ready, I wanna start trying in maybe a year. You can never plan these things, of course. But I'd love more.

• 1:03:35Speaker 02

  I love a gang, I've got three.

• 1:03:37Speaker 03

  There you go. Do you just think that three's perfect?

• 1:03:39Speaker 02

  I, I, well, I, I, I always say to people, you know when you're done.

• 1:03:48Speaker 02

  You will have a baby and you will go, I'm done.

• 1:03:51Speaker 03

  Okay, okay.

• 1:03:52Speaker 02

  And if you're going, maybe I'll have one more, then you're probably not done.

• 1:03:58Speaker 03

  I'm not done. Oh, I know I'm not done, desperate for more.

• 1:04:00Speaker 02

  When you, when you have your final child, you will know it's your final child.

• 1:04:06Speaker 03

  Okay, I love that.

• 1:04:07Speaker 02

  You won't know you've had your final child until you have your final child.

• 1:04:10Speaker 03

  Okay, okay. And I don't wanna regret it either, by not having more.

• 1:04:14Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:04:14Speaker 03

  Or not trying at least. And, and what a privilege because, you know, I'd read about these stories all the time where women are trying for so long. And we fail naturally. Like, I remind Darren of that, when we, when times are hard and we're going through it and we're in the trenches, I look at him and I say, baby, remember, remember, we didn't plan this. The plan was made for us. And we're here with this blessing. And I never forget, we've also got six dogs, did you know that?

• 1:04:41Speaker 03

  We've got six dogs, we've got six, right, I'm gonna let that land with ya.

• 1:04:44Speaker 02

  Say, if you ever want a dog sitter.

• 1:04:46Speaker 03

  Please, babe, we actually need them.

• 1:04:48Speaker 02

  If you're ever going away on holiday.

• 1:04:50Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:04:51Speaker 02

  Or anything.

• 1:04:51Speaker 03

  Yes. And I say to Darren, it's a house full of love.

• 1:04:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:55Speaker 03

  It's a house full of love.

• 1:04:56Speaker 02

  You are leading a beautiful life.

• 1:04:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it's what I've prayed for. We were walking in the forest the other day, I'd done a matinee. I'm gonna do a Thursday matinee and I get to have the evening with the kids. And I raced back to make sure that they'd had their dinner, so Darren fed them. And I said, right, we're all going out to the forest, let's all go, all the dogs, kids, adults, let's go, move. All get in our car, off we go to the forest. And I remember standing back, Darren's running with the two German Shepherds, the other puppies, everyone are following behind, and the kids are running going, come on, Pickles, Panda, follow, follow, follow. And they're running, and I stood back and I went, this is what I pray for. And I remind Darren all the time, this is what we've prayed for, we prayed for a family and we prayed for a house full of love. And we have exactly that. So when times are hard, keep reminding yourself of your blessings.

• 1:05:43Speaker 03

  Cause they're in front of you, they're right there.

• 1:05:46Speaker 02

  And I know, like, um, every woman is ending in, in 10 weeks.

• 1:05:51Speaker 03

  Yes, yes, yeah.

• 1:05:52Speaker 02

  And then you'll need a break.

• 1:05:53Speaker 03

  Yes, a little break.

• 1:05:54Speaker 02

  What, what do you want?

• 1:05:57Speaker 03

  If I'm honest, I love theatre because it's the joy of not knowing what's gonna happen every single night. Like, do you know what I mean? That, that is exciting to me.

• 1:06:05Speaker 02

  Every night's different.

• 1:06:05Speaker 03

  Every night's different, but my heart is with music. I wanna get back to my music. My heart is with doing, doing more TV and film. Because I love diplomatic, I've done one movie, done one, um, um. Uh, TV drama. I won an award for that, got nominated for a movie.

• 1:06:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean.

• 1:06:25Speaker 03

  Um, I just, I'm so, I was so proud of those moments. And for someone who's not trained, again, lucky girl.

• 1:06:34Speaker 02

  I just want to say something. What I see in you now is like, um, a very attractive self-confidence, not in a cocky way. Uh, just you are sure of yourself and that's a great place.

• 1:06:48Speaker 03

  Okay, and I'll tell you how that place came.

• 1:06:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:51Speaker 03

  I was struggling for years not understanding my purpose on this earth when mum passed. I didn't know why I needed to be here anymore, if I'm honest with you.

• 1:06:59Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:07:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, because I worked for her. I did it all for her. It was all for her. It was all because she gave the family so much. That when she left us, I thought, so what am I doing all this for? Why, why, why am I do, why am I here? Yeah. And I know that's really maybe, I think my family will find it hard me, hearing me say that. But it's my truth, like, she was my purpose.

• 1:07:26Speaker 03

  Day in, day out, the reason why I got up to breathe was her. And then my kids came.

• 1:07:32Speaker 03

  Oh my God, I understand my calling. My kids have given me a new lease of life, a reason to live, a reason to keep going, a reason to fight for what I want. So only in the past four years, I've gone, I know what I want. I'm going to achieve it. And there's work to be done. You never stop working. You never stop working. You never stop trying. And when one door closes, because they will, you fight for another. And, and it's so amazing that since I've been children, I finally got my originating role.

• 1:08:12Speaker 03

  Finally, finally, because I just feel like they've given me, they've given me a new lease of life to believe in myself. And I know that when roles turn up and I turn to my manager, I'm like, Nathan, Gavin, I just don't think I could do this. I just, and that is a self-belief thing that I'm really going to keep working on because I think you can keep working on that as, the older you get, in any age. And it's one thing I knew, Luther Vandross used to do singing lessons to his dying day. He used to work on himself. Oh God, yeah. Used to do it all the time. And that's why I say, room to improve. There's always room to improve.

• 1:08:43Speaker 02

  Well.

• 1:08:43Speaker 03

  Never get complacent, right?

• 1:08:45Speaker 02

  You know, I, I'm, I love watching, I, I keep seeing you.

• 1:08:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:50Speaker 02

  And I keep thinking throughout your whole career, I've thought, Jesus, she's amazing. Like, wow, that's incredible. And then five years later, I go, oh God, I think she's better.

• 1:09:00Speaker 03

  Oh, I love that.

• 1:09:01Speaker 02

  And then five years later. Oh my God, you blew, you blew my mind at the theatre. But what you just said about your kids giving you purpose and then me thinking about the fact that they didn't come at the right time, but they did.

• 1:09:15Speaker 03

  They did. Yeah, they did. They really did.

• 1:09:17Speaker 02

  They did.

• 1:09:18Speaker 03

  I needed them kids, yeah. And they will, they'll one day understand how much I needed them to survive. Yeah. To not, to not, to not think any other thought than I need to be here still, you know? And the, and, and the thing is, my mum used to work with a lot of children, helping to develop them within the arts, right? And I've carried that on, um, by starting a foundation for my mum, the Melissa.

• 1:09:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, so just tell me about the foundation.

• 1:09:44Speaker 03

  Well.

• 1:09:44Speaker 02

  What's it called?

• 1:09:45Speaker 03

  It's called the Melissa Bell Foundation and it's to help underprivileged kids go to Sylvia Young School, somewhere I couldn't afford to go. And Sylvia, God bless her, was a part of this and she used to help me. And sadly, she's recently passed away, but we, we put kids through a summer scholarship there in hope that they'll continue to stay there if they're picked, right? And I just, I just want to help others because I've been given that, that door that opened through X Factor. And of course, it's not a guaranteed career, but my mum was my biggest champion. That made sure that I knew that this door would close, but the next one will open. And that's what I want to teach children that I can hopefully help in the future. And my kids to not give up.

• 1:10:29Speaker 02

  I honestly can't kind of get over you. Like, you are every woman.

• 1:10:37Speaker 02

  Did you see what I did there?

• 1:10:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, baby.

• 1:10:38Speaker 02

  Oh my God, I just impressed myself.

• 1:10:40Speaker 03

  Come on, brilliant.

• 1:10:41Speaker 02

  No, honestly, like, you, you've got a gift, but in all the ways, it's not just acting and singing. It's a gift of hope. That's what I feel in you.

• 1:10:53Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:10:53Speaker 02

  I just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing what you did today. I know you're a private person.

• 1:11:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:00Speaker 02

  And I, you, you will have changed lives.

• 1:11:03Speaker 03

  Thank you. Thank you for making me feel safe enough to speak.

• 1:11:06Speaker 02

  I mean, it's been my honour to, to be here.

• 1:11:09Speaker 03

  Adore you.

• 1:11:10Speaker 02

  I, me too. I stay there.

• 1:11:12Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:11:12Speaker 02

  I am coming to hug you, um, for an embarrassingly long time.

• 1:11:18Speaker 03

  You're like me.

• 1:11:19Speaker 02

  So just in case you missed this episode here, um, if you love this episode, I know you're going to love that.

• 1:11:33Speaker 00

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