Dame Meera Syal: 12 Years Caring For My Parents & Surviving Divorce

What happens when both of your parents receive life-changing diagnoses within weeks of each other? In this episode of Begin Again, Davina McCall sits down with Dame Meera Syal. Meera shares the gruelling reality of caring for her mother after her cancer diagnosis while her father was living with Alzheimer’s, describing dementia as a “slow, long goodbye” and reflecting on how her family found strength, support and moments of connection through an incredibly difficult 12 years. She also opens up about growing up British Asian, feeling like a misfit, and nearly giving up on acting when she couldn’t see anyone like herself on screen. From ‘Goodness Gracious Me’ and ‘The Kumars at No. 42’ to becoming a writer, actor and comedian, Meera explains why telling your truth can help others feel less alone. The conversation also explores divorce, co-parenting, the unexpected possibilities of an empty nest, surviving assault, and staying resilient throughout life’s ups and downs. 🌟Like, comment and subscribe for more honest conversations about purpose, resilience, love, loss and beginning again. Follow us here: 📸www.instagram.com/beginagain 🎥https://www.tiktok.com/@beginagainpod ✨Sign up for the Begin Again newsletter for behind-the-scenes access, recommendations and much more: https://linkly.link/2g2xm Follow Dame Meera Syal here: https://www.instagram.com/meera.syal We'd love you to share your Get Busy Living stories with us at https://getbusyliving.beginagainshow.com/ (00:00) Intro (01:17) Getting Her Damehood (08:16) Meera As A Misfit Child (10:31) Studying At Manchester University (12:22) The Importance Of Gratitude (19:20) Monzo GBL Ad (20:51) British Heart Foundation Ad (22:02) The Play That Changed Her Life (26:32) Her New Book 'Vigilauntie' (34:04) Making 'Goodness Gracious Me' (38:22) Monzo 90 Days Ad (39:35) Garnier Ad (43:17) Married At 25 (45:57) Staying Friends After Divorce (50:41) Having Her Second Child In Her 40s (53:07) Her Marriage To Sanjeev (58:57) The Reality Of Caring For Two Sick Parents (01:06:29) Speaking Out About Sexual Assault Sponsored by: Results from the 2024 Lost Pensions Survey by the Pensions Policy Institute. The value of your pension could go up or down and you could get back less than you put in. You need a free Monzo current account to open a Monzo pension. Download Monzo. Monzo Current Accounts are for 18-70 years old only and UK residents. Ts&Cs Apply. Join the 'Say Yes Club' and hear more about our events here - https://events.beginagainshow.com/ British Heart Foundation: To help fund lifesaving research, visit https://bhf.org.uk/keepusbeating to donate now and keep us beating. Garnier Nutrisse: UK's NO1 hair dye, chosen by 2 million women. Davina is shade 5 Mocha Brown. Find yours: www.garnier.co.uk/our-brands/hair-colour/nutrisse-creme Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  When fall comes back around, there's a sense of a reset. And new pieces from Lululemon's fall drop are an inspiration to push your goals and elevate your routines. As your calendar fills, easy-to-layer styles meet the demands of your day. And as you challenge yourself to try even more, versatile sets transition with you. The Lululemon Fall Lineup brings new levels of comfort and confidence, whether you're starting something fresh or starting something over. Check out the latest arrivals in store and on lululemon.com now.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Stonefire Naan is baked in blazing high heat to give you buttery, charred flatbread for any meal.

• 0:35Speaker 02

  I love it with tzatziki and barbecue chicken.

• 0:37Speaker 03

  Stonefire Naan is great when you're lost in the woods with your leg in a bear trap.

• 0:41Speaker 04

  I love making naan-grilled cheese. Is that guy okay?

• 0:45Speaker 03

  I'm in shock by that buttermilk taste.

• 0:47Speaker 02

  Works great for pizza. Can we get him some help?

• 0:50Speaker 03

  You can share Stonefire Naan with your friends, like this friendly Wolverine.

• 0:55Speaker 04

  Doesn't sound friendly.

• 0:56Speaker 01

  From our tradition to yours, Stonefire, together we Naan.

• 1:00Speaker 05

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 1:29Speaker 02

  I was homeless, sleeping on floors, and it would have been really easy to go, I can't do this. But I don't think I'm the piece of fucked-up shit I thought I was, because your greatest revenge is to be happy. But we had no idea this is what was coming next.

• 1:46Speaker 06

  Today, I'm speaking to one of Britain's most celebrated actresses, Dame Mirasail.

• 1:52Speaker 02

  If you'd have told 10-year-old me I'd be making a living out of the thing I loved more than anything, would not have believed you. And here I am. But it's not easy. I'd only been in the business about a year, year and a half. Money had run out, luck had run out. But my parents didn't think being creative was a waste of time. And this director said, I've just seen your show, I'm about to do a nine-month tour, and would you like to be in it? It was like the universe was saying, go and try. Make your parents proud.

• 2:18Speaker 06

  But then what happened next?

• 2:20Speaker 02

  Both my parents got ill at the same time. My mom had cancer and my dad was diagnosed with Alzheimer's. It was probably the hardest phase of my life, because all you can think about is, this is the cruelest disease.

• 2:34Speaker 06

  But through it all, there's something incredibly inspiring about Mir's story, because no matter how your life has unfolded, you are always allowed to begin again.

• 2:47Speaker 06

  Can I quickly just say Dame?

• 2:50Speaker 02

  Oh, all right, go on then.

• 2:52Speaker 06

  Mirasail. I mean, that is good, isn't it? A Dame-hood.

• 2:55Speaker 02

  It's an odd one. Yes, amazing.

• 2:58Speaker 06

  What was that like, getting that last year?

• 3:01Speaker 02

  It was a gorgeous day.

• 3:02Speaker 06

  Was it?

• 3:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. It was right in the middle of the heat wave in June, but then we had one day which was sort of autumnal and a bit cloudy.

• 3:09Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:09Speaker 02

  It was like, thank God, because you know, you've got your finery on. Right, exactly.

• 3:13Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:14Speaker 02

  Exactly. And it was at Windsor Castle, which is, of course, feels very special.

• 3:18Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 3:19Speaker 02

  It felt, I suppose it felt like a marker of some kind. Because my parents were with me when I got my first one, which was my MBE.

• 3:30Speaker 02

  My mom was with me when I got my CBE. And then with this one, they're both gone now. So it felt like, oh, they're not here for this one. But they would have loved it.

• 3:42Speaker 02

  And it was weird, because when I was offered the MBE, which was in 97, that was the first year, that was the year that I took my father back to the house that he'd fled in Lahore in 1947. Fifty years on, when he became a refugee with the partition of India, and I took him back with BBC Radio 4 to the house he'd fled in. It was a very emotional journey. And that was the year that the effects of empire on my family and on millions of other people really came home. And then that year, I was offered a medal with empire on it.

• 4:24Speaker 02

  So, yeah, I know. That was quite...

• 4:27Speaker 06

  Was that quite...

• 4:28Speaker 02

  Conflicting, very. Of course it was. Of course it was. And I think it's something to do with the fact that empire is in the title. Because, for example, in France, they have the Légion d'honneur, you know, that it's something about that word that made it difficult. But what changed my mind, I think, was the way that my parents reacted to this. Because my dad said, one generation on, the empire threw me out of the how am I loved? And here's my daughter, being given an acknowledgement of all the damage that was done, maybe. And for them, it was some kind of...

• 5:07Speaker 06

  Healing.

• 5:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I think it was their reaction that persuaded me, that maybe it was a good thing to have. And I really do understand people's divided reactions towards it. But I think it's, you know, when you're younger, you just want to burn everything down. And then as you get older, you think, can I change things by being part of something and speaking up and being a symbol of some kind of change? So I think in that spirit, I thought it was a good thing to accept.

• 5:40Speaker 06

  And I know that the South Asian kind of culture had quite a strict ideal around marriage and mixing religions and things. And your parents were quite naughty, really.

• 5:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, they were.

• 5:55Speaker 06

  So just, please, can you explain in which ways they were kind of bucking the norm?

• 6:01Speaker 02

  Well, Davina, I come from rebel stock.

• 6:03Speaker 06

  Yeah, rebel stock.

• 6:04Speaker 02

  Probably not surprising.

• 6:06Speaker 06

  That's a perfect description, isn't it? It doesn't surprise me at all, yeah, exactly.

• 6:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, they did. They fell in love at college. My dad was Hindu, my mom was Sikh, which is not the most unusual combination, but my mom's family were very traditional Sikhs. And they married in secret. And then my mom actually went back to college to finish her degree without telling them she got married.

• 6:29Speaker 06

  I mean, bearing in mind, this is in the 50s.

• 6:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, 58.

• 6:32Speaker 06

  You know, this is crazy.

• 6:33Speaker 02

  Crazy, crazy. But that's how strong the love was. I just think it was a coup de foudre. It was one of those, yeah.

• 6:39Speaker 06

  Can I just wait? Hold my hand there. You said coup de foudre.

• 6:43Speaker 02

  Coup de foudre.

• 6:44Speaker 06

  I'm half-French.

• 6:45Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 6:46Speaker 06

  And that's such a, it's one of my favorite expressions.

• 6:50Speaker 02

  I love it, too.

• 6:51Speaker 06

  Like a thunderbolt, like...

• 6:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know. I know. How lucky. So many people have that. So few people have that, right? So that's what happened.

• 7:00Speaker 06

  But also how brave it was, really, at the time. Because I know that the religion thing, it was a similar faith, but still, for traditional Sikh, quite different.

• 7:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:12Speaker 06

  And then running away and getting married and not having an arranged marriage. I mean, what kind of percentage of people at the time were having arranged marriages?

• 7:19Speaker 02

  Majority.

• 7:20Speaker 06

  Really?

• 7:20Speaker 02

  I would say 90 to 95%.

• 7:24Speaker 06

  Wow, okay.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  It was the norm. And it still is the norm in traditional places, in the villages, certainly not in the cities. India's changed so much. But yeah, the highly unusual. But I guess in a way, I think they'd both, you know, had quite hard times coming out of a newly independent India. And I guess when there's so much chaos around you, when you find something that's certain, like, I don't know much about what's going to happen to me, life is in chaos, we haven't got much money, we don't know what's coming next. This I know. I need to be with you. This I know. I know. Isn't that lovely?

• 8:03Speaker 06

  You know, and they came over here, and that must have been tough. Because your dad came first.

• 8:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then mom came a couple of months later, not long after. Yeah, it was a time where signs were up in the boarding houses, no Irish blacks or dogs. It was that kind of time. So they both ended up, at the beginning, doing jobs way below their qualifications, because that's just what happens when you're a newly arrived immigrant. But, you know, gradually, they found their feet, they found, they gravitated towards where the other Punjabis were, the North Indians that they knew, that their friends became like family. Because when you don't have your family, those early relationships for those newly arrived immigrants. And it's the same pattern in every country. Like, if you go to New York and you see Little Italy in Chinatown, it's like, of course,

• 8:51Speaker 02

  every new community just gravitates towards other people, because they're so lost. And they just want to hear their language, eat their food, set up their language schools, just be like, you know, I'm far from home, let me set up an alternative home here. And I suppose the danger is, is if you stay there, if that continues, because it means you're not going out and you're not actually embracing the new culture.

• 9:16Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 9:17Speaker 02

  But that's what my generation did. So we were the bridge.

• 9:20Speaker 06

  I was just going to say, that was quite interesting for your parents, because you were British, you're British-born.

• 9:25Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 9:26Speaker 06

  And for them, you are the bridge.

• 9:29Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 9:30Speaker 06

  What were they like with you? Because obviously, they were rebels.

• 9:35Speaker 06

  But were they quite, did they try and be strict with you? And were you like, hang on a minute, you can't do this? Hang on a minute.

• 9:41Speaker 02

  It's great ammunition, isn't it? When you're like, really? Really? You're going to put your foot down? They were amazing, actually, because I was a misfit. I was just a weird, weird kid, right?

• 9:51Speaker 06

  Why?

• 9:51Speaker 02

  I just wasn't like any of the other little Indian girls around me, who were all very well-behaved and had long, straight hair. I mean, I had this, long, straight hair, wore pretty dresses, liked maths, you know, all wanted to be doctors.

• 10:05Speaker 06

  You're not a maths fan, are you?

• 10:06Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. You know, wanted to be doctors or pharmacists or sensible things, you know, knew all the prayers. And he was this weird tomboy, feral kid, growing up in a little mining village, on my bike all day, loved books, loved reading, wanted to do English, wanted secrets...

• 10:24Speaker 06

  What was your favorite book?

• 10:26Speaker 02

  When I was young, Alice in Wonderland.

• 10:27Speaker 06

  Was it?

• 10:28Speaker 02

  And when I was a teenager, Pride and Prejudice. I mean, quite classic choices, but in both cases, the weird girl in the middle was me. I was Alice going, oh, what the hell is going on here? But anyway, I'll have another swig, whatever is in this bottle and I'll grow big and I'll go small. And I'll go through that door. Don't know what's going on, but here's the adventure.

• 10:48Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 10:49Speaker 02

  And then, you know, obviously Elizabeth Bennet in Pride and Prejudice, too gobby. Nobody wants to marry her, not pretty enough. One of five girls, four girls, who's gonna, who's gonna want her? So in both cases, these books, I was looking for myself. Representation of the weirdness of myself everywhere and I didn't find it.

• 11:09Speaker 06

  And you wrote poetry quite young, didn't you?

• 11:11Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:11Speaker 06

  Little when you started writing.

• 11:13Speaker 02

  Four years old.

• 11:14Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 11:15Speaker 02

  Crap, crap.

• 11:16Speaker 06

  But still, I mean, to want to write poetry at four is quite something, isn't it?

• 11:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, my dad was a wonderful singer, surrounded by music. And he loved poetry too, all the poetry. My mum was a primary school teacher, surrounded by books. She taught me to read really early on, so I guess that, that was encouraged. My imagination was encouraged. What was amazing about my parents is they didn't think being creative and imaginative was a waste of time. Which is what a lot of South Asian parents did think, that anything like that was a hobby. It wasn't how you made a living, it wasn't a job, it wasn't useful. But for some reason, both my wonderful parents thought no creativity is as important as maths.

• 11:59Speaker 06

  Hmm. And I think, um, you know, obviously you had a gift really for English because you went on, didn't you? You went to, you went to university.

• 12:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:10Speaker 06

  Um.

• 12:11Speaker 02

  English and drama, yeah, yeah.

• 12:13Speaker 06

  Where did you go?

• 12:13Speaker 02

  Manchester.

• 12:15Speaker 06

  I mean, brilliant, right?

• 12:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:16Speaker 06

  Was it brilliant then?

• 12:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, oh my god, it was.

• 12:20Speaker 06

  Because, I mean, my god, now it's like.

• 12:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it was ju-, I mean, that was just when the Hacienda was opening.

• 12:26Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 12:27Speaker 02

  You know, it was just because, yeah, right. And my department was full of incredible people because the drama department then had a really interesting policy. Although it, it, it didn't, grades wasn't its first thing. They just went for people they thought were interesting. So there were people in my department that had got two E's, that may have been predicted three A's. For some reason they flunked them, probably doing, having too much fun. But the department still went, you're interesting. So I was surrounded by incredibly creative, interesting people. And that brought me out of my shell because I was a very young eighteen year old, right? I'd grown up in a little town, hadn't had a gap year, I'd just turned eighteen.

• 13:08Speaker 02

  And here I was in this, what seemed to me incredibly sophisticated bunch of people who had done, done things like, you know, I'd been studying puppetry in Poland for a while.

• 13:20Speaker 02

  Oh, great, I've been wandering around, been wandering around the Mander Centre, I'm eating chips.

• 13:26Speaker 06

  Puppetry in Poland, I can just imagine.

• 13:28Speaker 02

  It was a bit like that.

• 13:29Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's so funny.

• 13:30Speaker 02

  It's like, oh, I'm such a hick, I'm such a hick. So it took me a long time to feel like I found my feet, but the, the thing that saved me was being able to do the thing I loved and I never thought I'd get to do. And I still wasn't thinking about it as a career, it was just sort of so grateful to be there.

• 13:46Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 13:46Speaker 02

  And I got to act in loads of things and start writing my own stuff and it just unlocked me, you know?

• 13:52Speaker 06

  Can we talk about gratitude for a bit?

• 13:53Speaker 02

  Oh, it's so important.

• 13:55Speaker 06

  Yeah, and gratitude is, it saves a lot of people because if you can be in a dark moment and find just even something tiny to be, but lots of people find gratitude a problem, but you are literally, you've been blessed with it from the get go. Why, where's that come from?

• 14:11Speaker 02

  I don't, I think if you come from a background where there's a great deal of intergenerational trauma, as there was on both sides of my family, for all those reasons we've talked about and their experiences and, and my experiences, I suppose, growing up as a kid, it was tough sometimes, being the only one and visible. There's one of two ways you can go. You can become scared and bitter and fearful, or you can rise to it and go, my parents survived that and they still are full of love and they give that love to me and they have optimism. Which way am I gonna go here? Am I gonna go forward frightened of what life is gonna throw at me? Or am I gonna go, I survived that, that's great, I've got those parents, that's great.

• 14:54Speaker 02

  And honestly, it's something I've got better at and I can't say I've always been good at it, but I think as you get older, you, you realise actually the way that life works better for you is if you do that. Otherwise you're just in a spiral of fear and pessimism and poor me. It's not the why, why me? The why not me is a much better outlook. It's like shit happens to people, why shouldn't it happen to me? That's all right, this is not all of my life, this is this bit and it will get better. And then it'll get bad again and then it'll be amazing. So why not celebrate the amazing bits and just know you can get through the bad bits? That's what's got me through them anyway.

• 15:34Speaker 06

  I'm gonna write that down after this. Why me, not why me, why not me?

• 15:39Speaker 02

  Why not me?

• 15:39Speaker 06

  I love that.

• 15:41Speaker 02

  But it's true though, right?

• 15:42Speaker 06

  That's so good.

• 15:43Speaker 02

  And at any point in your life, you can look around you and see a thousand people who are having a much worse time than you.

• 15:49Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 15:49Speaker 02

  You can also decide to look at the ten thousand people who seem to have it all. Number one, they don't, you don't know what's in their heads.

• 15:57Speaker 06

  Lots of the time they're pretending, right?

• 15:58Speaker 02

  And number two, don't do that to yourself.

• 16:00Speaker 06

  I'm not anti-social media at all. Um, I, I think there are lots of really good things about it. But that's one of the things that's a problem when people believe what they see. You can't trust anything you see.

• 16:13Speaker 02

  It's all curated.

• 16:13Speaker 06

  On social media, it's all curated, you know? I'd love to talk to you a bit more about your, um, what you, what you produced at university and some of the work you did there. Um, is it, did you produce something towards the end where you played a lot of different parts? Can you talk me through that, that particular?

• 16:35Speaker 02

  This is the project that literally changed the course of my entire life.

• 16:39Speaker 06

  So how did you come to do this project and who were you working with and sign them?

• 16:43Speaker 02

  So it was a one woman show called One of Us. Um, and I approached my friend Jackie Shapiro, dear friend, who was a fellow student, who was a writer. And I said, you know, I've never written anything, well, not the play, I'd written prose. I wanna do something about what I'm feeling, but there is no one else to work with. If there was another brown person in the entire arts department, I would find that.

• 17:06Speaker 06

  That was then no one?

• 17:07Speaker 02

  I was the only one.

• 17:07Speaker 06

  Were you really?

• 17:10Speaker 06

  Well, well done you, because you literally paved the way.

• 17:13Speaker 02

  One black, one black guy.

• 17:15Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 17:15Speaker 02

  And me, that was it.

• 17:17Speaker 06

  Wait.

• 17:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:18Speaker 06

  First off, I just want to ask you, because I know that that was also the case at school, right?

• 17:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:25Speaker 06

  Um.

• 17:25Speaker 02

  One of three.

• 17:26Speaker 06

  Because I've never experienced that.

• 17:29Speaker 02

  Yes, I know.

• 17:30Speaker 06

  What is that like? What do you feel like?

• 17:34Speaker 02

  You're defended. You wear armour.

• 17:37Speaker 06

  Yeah, okay.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  All the time.

• 17:39Speaker 06

  You're ready.

• 17:40Speaker 02

  You're ready.

• 17:41Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 17:41Speaker 02

  You're alert, you're alert for who's gonna accept you, who isn't, am I gonna fit in? Do I shape shift into this group?

• 17:47Speaker 06

  Right.

• 17:48Speaker 02

  You become fantastic at code switching.

• 17:49Speaker 06

  Reading as well, rooms.

• 17:51Speaker 02

  Absolutely. You find humour because humour opens doors and humour stops people from hitting you in the face if you can make them laugh.

• 17:59Speaker 06

  Oh my god, it's so.

• 18:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. You become very like that bunch of boys walking down the street, seems like maybe I should cross the road here.

• 18:09Speaker 06

  Wow, and you can have a vibe, right?

• 18:12Speaker 02

  All the time, your radar's always on. And the funny thing is, Davina, you don't realise it's on until you go to a place where.

• 18:17Speaker 06

  Right, it's not.

• 18:18Speaker 02

  So like the first time I went to India, I, I want, my shoulder just went, and I thought, oh my god, I'm walking down the street and everybody looks at me, I don't know what that feel, this is what it feels like. I'm breathing different, it's so weird, it's an unconscious thing.

• 18:38Speaker 02

  So yeah, you could become very adept. And probably the, one of the reasons I became a creative, because that's a great sort of code switching and mask changing and reading people, it's all the things you need to be an actor and a writer.

• 18:51Speaker 06

  And, and all of these times in your childhood where you were basically the only one?

• 18:57Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:58Speaker 06

  How much racism did you experience? I mean, and even casual racism, like where people don't even know.

• 19:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:04Speaker 06

  Like all that.

• 19:06Speaker 02

  All shades, uh, and unexpected times. I guess in the seventies it was really out there.

• 19:11Speaker 06

  Yeah, it was, yeah.

• 19:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, you know, NF painted on the house and stuff like that.

• 19:15Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 19:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, that kind of thing. Kids coming into the park that weren't from the area, that didn't know me, that, you kind of got, you got used to it. But what I found very heartening is that.

• 19:30Speaker 02

  That my community and the black community really rose to it. You know, there were so many, so many amazing movements. The Anti-Nazi League and all those Rocketgate races and all of those things that the many, the Southall uprisings, that was when the whole South Asian community rose up and threw the National Front out of Southall where they were marching. And it made me realise that if you're gonna combat this kind of fascism, you've got to do it together. You've got to be united, you've got to find your tribe. It's no good sitting in your house crying. Do something about it, but do it in numbers. Find your like-minded people, and they are everywhere, but they're often silent, but they're there. We're worried about climate change, we're worried about AI, that's on top of everything

• 20:14Speaker 02

  else that's happening. Very easy to scapegoat people when you're frightened. It's happened in every, every point in history where the world is uncertain. Who can we blame? Who can we blame? Who can we blame? Instead of thinking, how can we fix it? And how can we fix it together? And at the times that history has changed, it has been mass movements, the women's movement, the civil rights movement, the anti-fascist movement. There have been times where people have just collectively stood up. The worst thing is feeling like you can't do anything.

• 20:46Speaker 06

  Yes, powerless.

• 20:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 20:49Speaker 06

  Monzo sponsoring Begin Again to help us win back some time so we can do more of what we love. I wanted to know what that thing was for you. So let's have a look and see who we've got. Mandy has a secret dream, even her family doesn't know what it is yet.

• 21:07Speaker 02

  So there's something that I've always wanted to do. I don't even think my kids know about it, but I used to live in Singapore and every year I'd watch the fighter jets come over and practise for National Day. I would sit with my nose pressed against the window going, I wish I could fly in a fighter jet. So that's my secret desire, to fly in a fighter jet.

• 21:31Speaker 06

  Oh my god, Mandy, this is amazing. I can't stop thinking about the feeling that will give you when you do it. It's like an unstoppable thing now, this desire. You've said it out loud, can't take it back now. It's gonna happen. So let's do this, let's say yes more. In fact, I'm gonna make it happen right now. I'm calling it the Say Yes Club. We're gonna take one thing we've always wanted to do and we are actually going to do it. So I'm gonna put a link in the description for you to come and join us because that's exactly the thing that Monzo is here to help with. They put our money to work in the background, sorted, saved, sent where it needs to go. So our energy is free to say yes to more things in life.

• 22:14Speaker 06

  Monzo current accounts are for UK residents aged 16 plus, Ts and Cs apply. Right, I need women to listen to this sponsored message from British Heart Foundation because we are finally talking more about what happens to us during menopause. The sleep, the brain fog, the hormones, all of it. But we still don't talk nearly enough about our hearts. Cardiovascular disease is the biggest killer of women over 45 worldwide. And after menopause, the risk increases significantly. Now, please don't hear that and panic. I'm telling you this because I think women deserve to know about this and because there are brilliant people working every day to do something about it.

• 22:59Speaker 06

  British Heart Foundation funds life-saving research into preventing, diagnosing and treating women's cardiovascular disease. More research means more breakthroughs and those breakthroughs can mean more time, more time to live, more time to start over, more time to begin again. To help fund life-saving research, please visit bhf.org.uk/keepusbeating to donate now and keep us beating.

• 23:31Speaker 02

  Whenever fall comes back around, it always feels like a fresh start. This year, I've been layering in some styles from the new Lululemon fall drop because the weather is shifting and I find I have to be ready for the entire day and not just one part of it. Lululemon's fall line has some really versatile transitional pieces so I can just wake up, throw on a matching set, add a jacket or a fleece and head out, knowing that I'll feel comfortable enough to go wherever the day takes me. Check out the new fall arrivals in store and online now at lululemon.com.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  Stonefire naan is baked in blazing high heat to give you buttery charred flatbread for any meal.

• 24:06Speaker 02

  I love it with tzatziki and barbecue chicken.

• 24:08Speaker 03

  Stonefire naan is great when you're lost in the woods with your leg in a bear trap.

• 24:12Speaker 04

  I love making naan grilled cheese. Is that guy okay?

• 24:16Speaker 03

  I'm in shock by that buttermilk taste.

• 24:18Speaker 02

  Works great for pizza. Can we get him some help?

• 24:21Speaker 03

  You can share Stonefire naan with your friends, like this friendly Wolverine.

• 24:26Speaker 04

  Doesn't sound friendly.

• 24:27Speaker 01

  From our tradition to yours, Stonefire, together we naan.

• 24:32Speaker 06

  Sorry, I massively digressed there because I'd like to go back to your one-woman play that you wrote with your lovely friend, Jackie.

• 24:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, it was like primal scream therapy, Davina, frankly. All the stuff I was feeling about being different, about being lost, about not having role models, about where I was gonna fit in, about wanting to act so desperately and knowing I would never do it.

• 24:52Speaker 06

  But how many different parts did you play?

• 24:54Speaker 02

  About 15.

• 24:55Speaker 06

  I mean, it's the best showreel you could ever do, right? I want to act, I'm going to play 15 people in this. I mean, amazing, right?

• 25:02Speaker 02

  There was no one else to act with. I literally had to improvise with myself. It was completely mad, just kind of jumping into different characters. And I would improvise and Jackie would write it down and then shape it into a narrative.

• 25:14Speaker 06

  Oh, that's a good.

• 25:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was a great way of working. And she did an amazing job. And that play's still being done in pockets.

• 25:20Speaker 06

  Is it?

• 25:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, amazingly.

• 25:22Speaker 06

  Isn't that amazing?

• 25:23Speaker 02

  It is amazing. And it started off as a little student show at Manchester in our little studio where we could do a show every month. Monday night was studio night. Put it on there, didn't think anything of it, had this amazing reaction of friends coming up going, we didn't know how you felt. We'd known you for four years and we had no idea this is what was going on in your head. And I thought, that's why it's important to make stories, because how do people know? They're not mind readers. How do they know?

• 25:50Speaker 06

  Your show was so good, you got invited to go to Edinburgh, right?

• 25:54Speaker 02

  Yes, I went to the National Student Drama Festival and got picked for Edinburgh. Won some prizes there. And literally two weeks before I was due to go and take up an MA place and do, you know, going to academia and.

• 26:07Speaker 06

  Because wait, wait, can we just blow your horn for a minute? And just say, what did you get in your degree? Everybody, listen to this, listen to this, I'm proud of her.

• 26:18Speaker 02

  All right, you're like my mum, I got a double first.

• 26:20Speaker 06

  She got a double first.

• 26:21Speaker 02

  In English.

• 26:22Speaker 06

  Just in English.

• 26:23Speaker 02

  Right, right. Not that, has anyone ever asked me that before?

• 26:28Speaker 06

  Well, I am so proud of you. Double first, what? I didn't go to uni, I'm like, I think you're the most amazing person ever.

• 26:35Speaker 02

  That's probably because I should have been doing more sex and drugs than rock and roll, Davina.

• 26:39Speaker 06

  I did that for you.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  There you go, thank you.

• 26:42Speaker 06

  But what I was gonna say was, there's something about your story, I think the reason why I love it so much that you got a double first was that your parents were like, go do what you want to do. You don't have to become a doctor or a dentist, which is what South Asian parents were wanting other children to do and you knew that. And you were so grateful that they let you do what you wanted to do.

• 27:04Speaker 02

  I wanted to be really good at it, you're so right. I wanted to repay that.

• 27:07Speaker 06

  But not what you did. And they must have been literally beside themselves.

• 27:12Speaker 02

  Yes, and relieved because in their head was like.

• 27:16Speaker 06

  They did the right.

• 27:16Speaker 02

  At least you've got a good degree, so if the acting doesn't work out, you can go and do something else. And I was about to go and do something else.

• 27:24Speaker 06

  Yeah, you had two weeks, right?

• 27:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. Because the thing is, I looked at the profession out there and I didn't see anyone like me. Or if I did, they're in tiny little parts, in sitcoms, these tiny little cliched stereotype roles. And I thought, who am I kidding? I might have done everything here at uni, but this is uni, that's real life. There's no one that looks like me, there's no scripts that tell stories about me. Who's gonna employ me? This is crazy. So I'd literally had my life planned for two years. At Edinburgh, this director called Carol Hayman walks into a venue, said, I've just seen your show, I'm about to do a play at the Royal Court with Joint Stock Theatre and then a nine-month tour, and would you like to be in it? And here's a job with an equity card. I know, I know.

• 28:12Speaker 06

  I mean.

• 28:13Speaker 02

  It was one of those.

• 28:14Speaker 06

  Higher power, like.

• 28:16Speaker 02

  I know.

• 28:17Speaker 06

  What?

• 28:17Speaker 02

  And it was, it was like someone, the universe was saying, we know, we know you how much you want this. What a shame if you don't even try. Go and try, go and try. And it kicks me out with that sort of immigrant mindset that I had, of course I did, which was security, safety. You know, get the job with the pension, do the, make your parents proud, do the. It was like the universe was going, no, no, no, no, no. Try this first, just try this. You know, if you get to thirty five and it's still not happening, fair enough, go and do the other thing, but don't regret it.

• 28:54Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 28:54Speaker 02

  And because I'd been surrounded, and this is why the memoir is called Vigilante, because I'd been surrounded by aunties. Who'd never felt their potential.

• 29:03Speaker 06

  So this is, well, I'm, I mean, I probably should have done this at the beginning, if I'm honest, you know, but anyway. Mira is an artist, she's a comedian, she's a writer, she is also a novelist. But she has also just written a memoir called Vigilante, a memoir, and I like this in it.

• 29:24Speaker 06

  And Vigilante, we were talking about this earlier because I was like, that is a very clever play on words.

• 29:29Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 29:29Speaker 06

  And who came up with that?

• 29:31Speaker 02

  My daughter Millie. Yeah.

• 29:34Speaker 06

  Well done.

• 29:34Speaker 02

  Genius. Because she said, mum, that sums you up. You know, the auntie bit of you, which is, where you vest, have you eaten? Uh, who are you going out with? And then the vigilante bit of you, which is that you bust all these things open. And you're trying to, you know, be the best of the aunties and avoid the worst bits of the aunties. So I thought it was a brilliant title.

• 29:55Speaker 06

  I mean, that is actually very clever, isn't it?

• 29:57Speaker 02

  So clever.

• 29:59Speaker 06

  And an auntie is kind of like a woman, and it doesn't have to be, she's not necessarily even part of the family.

• 30:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:07Speaker 06

  She could be a friend, but she's a woman with experience in life.

• 30:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:12Speaker 06

  Who through that has a right to kind of tell you what to do if you're younger than her.

• 30:17Speaker 02

  Totally. That, you've summed it up perfectly. And you know what? A lot of my friends have had them, my friends up north. Welsh friends, Irish friends, Greek friends. You say auntie and go, yeah, African friends. It's like, it's part of lots of older cultures.

• 30:30Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  And older communities. And in my case, it was my mum and dad's friends, you know, all the other Banjabis that arrived. And because, as I said before, when, when you don't have your real family, these friends be calm family. And auntie and uncle were just respectful terms that we were told to use for any elder, any man or woman. Mum and dad's friends.

• 30:52Speaker 06

  I like it.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  You would never think of going, all right, Jitinda, you get a cuff around the ear. It's like, that's uncle to you. You don't call him by his name, right?

• 31:01Speaker 06

  So it's a sort of respect, really, isn't it?

• 31:03Speaker 02

  Absolutely. But you're quite right, because we were brought up communally. And I don't think the nuclear family works anyway. I think it's a good way to be brought up communally.

• 31:13Speaker 06

  When you say that, is it like it takes a village, like everybody takes care of everybody?

• 31:18Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 31:18Speaker 06

  I love that. We need to do that more.

• 31:20Speaker 02

  Totally, totally. Too much pressure on two parents to think.

• 31:25Speaker 06

  Agree.

• 31:26Speaker 02

  You need your mentors, you need, so these aunties were very instrumental because they, they for me with my mum are my examples of womanhood. How do I grow into a woman? Here you are, here's a whole bunch of you. But the thing is, some of them are really bloody scary and repressive.

• 31:41Speaker 06

  Yes, they enjoy the.

• 31:43Speaker 02

  Scary.

• 31:44Speaker 06

  Kind of hierarchy thing of it.

• 31:46Speaker 02

  Totally. So there were tho- there were those aunties that went, you will do maths, you will marry this person. Sit, don't sit with your legs apart, don't laugh too loudly, you can only get fat after you're married. That's one of the titles in, these are the things that were said to me, all about squishing young women, squish, squish, squish. And then there were some other amazing aunties that really inspired me, but a lot of them were unfulfilled. A lot of them didn't get the chances. And it's only when I became an auntie myself. That I began to realise that a lot of that fear and the controlling behaviour came from their own disappointment. And their own missed opportunities and their own, the fact that they didn't get to spread their wings.

• 32:32Speaker 02

  And they were trying to protect me, but also were mourning their own lost.

• 32:38Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 32:38Speaker 02

  Opportunities.

• 32:40Speaker 06

  There's a little bit of like, almost not wanting you to get what they couldn't have.

• 32:47Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 32:47Speaker 06

  Like, well, I didn't have it, you can't have it.

• 32:50Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 32:51Speaker 06

  Not realising, not in a mean way, I, I mean, but just, or imagine if you go for it and you don't get it. So just don't try, avoid the disappointment.

• 33:01Speaker 02

  Avoid the disappointment.

• 33:04Speaker 06

  And the hot.

• 33:04Speaker 02

  Wrapped up in that.

• 33:05Speaker 06

  A lot wrapped up. And this whole thing as well, like the family honour is sort of always the crown on a young girl's head.

• 33:12Speaker 02

  It doesn't matter what the men do, it's your responsibility to keep the family honour. So all of that fear. Well, it's all about patriarchy in the end, of course it is. No, a lot of these rules are just to keep women in their place. And, and I had to really pick through all of that. That was part of becoming a vigilante, I suppose, and deciding. What are the bits of these amazing women that I want to preserve and keep? Their compassion, their strength. Their fearlessness, their huge shoulders of steel that hold up the whole family. The language, the humour, the food, there's so much of my culture I love, love, love, love, love and want to keep, the history.

• 33:54Speaker 02

  And then picking out those bits that were like, I don't think this is about culture.

• 33:58Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 33:59Speaker 02

  Uh, beating your wife is not a tradition. Making your wife walk ten paces behind you isn't tradition. Squashing your wife down when she has an opinion or wants to laugh loudly.

• 34:10Speaker 06

  Did you see that a lot?

• 34:11Speaker 02

  That's not culture sometimes. Not from all, not at all. Some, some of my aunties would, you know, try that and they'd kick you. Kick you across the room. But no, there were, there were, and a lot of it was sold as culture and tradition. And I, I had to suddenly take a step back and go, that isn't. That really isn't. That's about, that's about controlling women.

• 34:33Speaker 06

  I mean, I think because you're famous, you're like an auntie to lots of women, not just of your culture. I mean, I think we as famous women.

• 34:42Speaker 02

  Right.

• 34:43Speaker 06

  Are aunties.

• 34:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 34:45Speaker 06

  I feel like that to women who are gonna be menopausal. That's like what I've chosen to do.

• 34:50Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 34:50Speaker 06

  And it's like, I owe it to you.

• 34:52Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 34:53Speaker 06

  To show you.

• 34:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:55Speaker 06

  That it's gonna be okay. And that's what you're doing.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  That's a really nice way of putting it. I mean, I suppose I, I do worry about. You know, being held up as the representative because you're so aware, aren't you, that you can't possibly speak for everyone. And there'll be lots of people that disagree with me or what I do and.

• 35:12Speaker 06

  You and me do something really naughty.

• 35:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:14Speaker 06

  Then all of a sudden.

• 35:15Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 35:16Speaker 06

  Everything we represent is tarnished.

• 35:18Speaker 02

  Absolutely. But the problem is, when you speak out or when you're the only one, you become representative whether you want to be.

• 35:24Speaker 06

  Everything.

• 35:25Speaker 02

  Whether you want it or not.

• 35:26Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 35:26Speaker 02

  Because there's so few of you, right? If there was a million versions of women like me, I'd just be one more. So it's a.

• 35:35Speaker 06

  Pressure.

• 35:35Speaker 02

  There's a lot, yes. So you have to curate that very, very carefully. You do, e- even if you don't want the responsibility, in a way, you, you have to take it on and go, I have to be really careful about what I put out there, what I say. And always to put it under the umbrella of, this is just my truth.

• 35:52Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 35:53Speaker 02

  It might not be yours, please come forward and speak yours, because the point is to come forward, right? Everyone's story is valid.

• 36:02Speaker 06

  I love what somebody said once, there's three versions of the truth. There's my truth, your truth and the truth.

• 36:12Speaker 06

  No, right. And everybody sees things in a different way. So as many different voices as we can all have.

• 36:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 36:19Speaker 06

  In the world, expressing how they're feeling is good. But I, I realise that must be a great pressure for you. And I think, um.

• 36:30Speaker 06

  We're talking a lot about, you need more people to step forward and.

• 36:34Speaker 02

  Cool.

• 36:34Speaker 06

  So when did you find the team that you went on to go and make Goodness Gracious Me with? Like, how did that happen?

• 36:42Speaker 02

  Oh, that happened sort of quite organically, I suppose. I'd been, um, working on a show called The Real McCoy, which was.

• 36:48Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 36:49Speaker 02

  Amazing, Britain's first black sketch show.

• 36:51Speaker 06

  Yes, it was so good.

• 36:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I was just a guest on that and a, and a writer. And, and Anil Gupta was a script editor. And of course, you know, like an auntie at a wedding. I spot the other brown person in the room, go, hello, who are you? Come talk to me. And we became friends and, um. And he's hugely talented, still is. And I said, you know, this show's amazing, but of course, what about our version? Don't you think there could be a world in which we could do a British Asian sketch show? And, and he went to the BBC. And they said, we don't know what that is.

• 37:30Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 37:31Speaker 02

  Our Asians funny was the subtext. And we said, well,

• 37:35Speaker 06

  Oh my god.

• 37:35Speaker 02

  We don't know.

• 37:37Speaker 06

  Asians funny.

• 37:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. But you have to realise that in the eyes of the world, we weren't. We were invisible at that point.

• 37:44Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 37:45Speaker 02

  I mean,

• 37:46Speaker 06

  It's mad, isn't it, really, when you think about it?

• 37:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, what was people's impressions of us? We weren't comedians. We weren't cool. We weren't even that visible, really, on television. So, yeah, so we were very well aware that whatever we were suggesting was completely unknown in anyone's sort of experience about, no, you guys don't do that. Do you? And we said, well, I don't know. We'll just do the stuff that makes us laugh then. No expectation, nothing. We're not going to try and fit an algorithm here.

• 38:14Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 38:15Speaker 02

  We're just going to do the stuff that we have been doing, actually for a long time, that nobody's noticed. We'd all been doing comedy stuff and in, in, you know, South Asian comedy nights going on. But it was like a subculture. The, the rest of the world didn't know about it. Our community did.

• 38:30Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 38:31Speaker 02

  And so Anil gathered this team of me and Klavinda, who'd been on The Real McCoy as well, Sanjeev and Nitin Sorni, who were a duo, a comedy duo. And, and the night that Anil went to see them, Nina was supporting them.

• 38:46Speaker 06

  Oh, really?

• 38:47Speaker 02

  So that's, so suddenly he, we, that was the crew. And then it took a long time to get from there to our first TV pilot. We had to do a radio show first. Lots and lots and lots of hoops. Proof, lots of proving ourselves.

• 38:59Speaker 06

  We are funny.

• 39:00Speaker 02

  Where we got there.

• 39:01Speaker 06

  It will work.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:03Speaker 06

  And it really did work.

• 39:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, it did.

• 39:05Speaker 06

  I mean, it was mega.

• 39:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:07Speaker 06

  But I was, it, it was a shock, I think, to everybody that it didn't go on for longer.

• 39:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:13Speaker 06

  Was it a shock for you?

• 39:14Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 39:15Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 39:15Speaker 02

  We couldn't really understand it. We, we think we did three series.

• 39:18Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 39:18Speaker 02

  We've actually done more specials than we did series.

• 39:22Speaker 06

  That's mad. I didn't know that. That's mad. How many specials have you done then?

• 39:26Speaker 02

  I think four.

• 39:27Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, okay.

• 39:28Speaker 02

  Even five. I mean, I've been in India special as well. I mean, mad. You know what TV's like, to be honest.

• 39:35Speaker 06

  I do.

• 39:35Speaker 02

  Doesn't necessarily follow any sort of rules. Sometimes it's a change of regime.

• 39:40Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 39:40Speaker 02

  Sometimes it's a weird political decision. I mean, I don't know. I think the BBC clearly regretted it, although, otherwise it wouldn't have continually invited us back to do the specials. But, um, I guess, you know, be grateful we did it because it changed the landscape. Maybe be grateful we went on an absolute high and we didn't.

• 40:00Speaker 06

  I mean, you really did.

• 40:01Speaker 02

  We didn't stay and flog it over eight series. So it just got worse and worse and worse. So, and people still watch it. People still quote it. It's out there on YouTube. New generations are finding it. So whatever the vagaries of that decision was, I'm really glad it happened. I'm profoundly grateful to have been part of it because it's really humbling when people come up and go, that show, and then quote it back at you.

• 40:24Speaker 06

  It's just amazing.

• 40:25Speaker 02

  Isn't that great?

• 40:25Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's amazing.

• 40:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:27Speaker 06

  Yeah. I mean, it was a sit up and take pay attention programme because it felt like so fresh and new and funny.

• 40:34Speaker 02

  Because we, we were, we were ourselves and the authenticity of that.

• 40:38Speaker 06

  Hmm.

• 40:38Speaker 02

  And that was a real lesson for everything else I chose to go on and do. It was like, remember this, remember, even when people don't think it's the thing they want, you know in your gut that this is the thing you want to do. This is your voice. It's really important.

• 40:55Speaker 06

  There is an estimated 31.1 billion sitting in lost pension pots in the UK. 31.1 billion. This is me when I was at MTV. Remember that like it was yesterday. Did I have a pension? Who was it with? And do you know what? I couldn't tell you. And I suspect I'm not the only one. But the good news is Monzo, our sponsors, can help you find and combine yours. In partnership with their tracing provider, Raindrop, they are the only bank that offer the service for free. You tell them where you worked and when, and they do the searching for you. It's basically a private investigator for your pension. So far, more than 150,000 pensions worth, over 900 million pounds have been transferred into Monzo. That could be you.

• 41:40Speaker 06

  So download Monzo now and keep track of your pensions alongside the rest of your money. The value of your pension could go up or down and you could get back less than you put in. You need a free Monzo current account to open a Monzo pension. 18 to 70 years old only. UK residents only. T's and C's apply.

• 42:02Speaker 06

  This segment was sponsored by Garnier.

• 42:06Speaker 06

  Oh my god. Oh, lady over there. Hi. What's your name? Shashana. Shashana. We've got a colleague at work, Emma, who wants to have her hair coloured. I'm trying to find somebody to come with me to come and colour her hair with some Garnier Nutris at work. Yeah, why not? Would you, would you really? Follow me, follow me. So this is the Begin Again studio. And this is Emma. Shashana seemed really confident. She has coloured her friends' hair and stuff before. We've got to put this one into here and shake to activate the colour. Shake it like a Polaroid picture.

• 42:42Speaker 06

  Already the colour's lovely. The shade that we are doing on Emma is Mocha Brown, which is my shade. Mine. I own this. I don't. There are actually 35 shades to choose from. It's got fruit oils in it. They are, what nourishes it? Emma, you're very lucky. You have no grey hairs. But Garnier Nutris, the permanent colour's got 100% grey coverage. I can vouch for that.

• 43:09Speaker 06

  That is it. Oh, wow. Easier to do it yourself. Just so you know. Is that easier than you thought? Very easy. Just like putting like hair oil in. Yeah. It's like so easy. Time to go. Go, Emma. Oh my god, it looks great. Oh my god, I'm not being funny. You've done a great job. Look at it. So look at that. Can we just discuss the shine?

• 43:32Speaker 06

  That's amazing. Are you pleased with it? Do you like it? Love, love, love, love, love. How confident are you now, out of 10? Oh, 10 out of 10. That was a lot simpler than I thought. I'm so pleased. We did a thing. Thank you for trusting us. You guys have done amazing. And thank you, Garnier Nutris. Love you.

• 43:56Speaker 00

  Whenever fall comes back around, it always feels like a fresh start. This year, I've been layering in some styles from the new Lululemon fall drop because the weather is shifting and I find I have to be ready for the entire day and not just one part of it. Lululemon's fall line has some really versatile transitional pieces. So I can just wake up, throw on a matching set, add a jacket or a fleece and head out, knowing that I'll feel comfortable enough to go wherever the day takes me. Check out the new fall arrivals in store and online now at lululemon.com.

• 44:25Speaker 01

  Stonefire naan is baked in blazing high heat to give you buttery charred flatbread for any meal.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  I love it with tzatziki and barbecue chicken.

• 44:33Speaker 03

  Stonefire naan is great when you're lost in the woods with your leg in a bear trap.

• 44:37Speaker 04

  I love making naan grilled cheese. Is, is that okay?

• 44:40Speaker 03

  I'm in shock by that buttermilk taste.

• 44:43Speaker 02

  Works great for pizza. Can we get him some help?

• 44:46Speaker 03

  You can share Stonefire naan with your friends, like this friendly Wolverine.

• 44:51Speaker 04

  Doesn't sound friendly.

• 44:52Speaker 01

  From our tradition to yours, Stonefire, together we naan.

• 44:55Speaker 06

  I mean, what's been amazing is you've done every single kind of different type of acting. You've done theatre, you've done TV, you've done film. Like, what's your, what's your favourite, would you say?

• 45:10Speaker 02

  Oh, well, I'm doing a play at the moment called The Children at the Lyric Amos, which is an amazing, amazing play, three-hander. And it's two years since I did my last play. And I, I mean, there is something magical about theatre.

• 45:24Speaker 06

  The lyrics are great.

• 45:25Speaker 02

  The lyrics are great.

• 45:26Speaker 06

  It's such an intimate, like brilliant space, isn't it?

• 45:28Speaker 02

  Brilliant space, amazing team, amazing roles, all three roles. It's three-hander, 90 minutes, for people in their 60s. I mean, who, who writes plays like that, right? Proper chunky roles. And it is that connection with the audience night after night. It's, it's the fact that every show is different. It's the fact that it's a live connection. You can hear when they're listening. You can hear when they laugh. You can hear when they're crying. You can hear when they're with you. You can feel when they're pulling away. I mean,

• 45:56Speaker 06

  God, how magic is that?

• 45:58Speaker 02

  It's so magical. And I think it's where you learn all the skills you need as an actor is actually in the theatre. So it teaches you everything you need to know about listening.

• 46:09Speaker 06

  You must learn a lot about real life, though, as well, being in theatre, right?

• 46:13Speaker 02

  Yes, because of the feedback and when we want to chat after. And. I mean, listening actually is such a huge thing. I increasingly think that's the secret to being a good actor. You so focused up on my performance and my lines. The acting actually comes naturally when you're listening properly. And when you're aware that you're as a team telling a story together. It's teamwork theatre as well. It's none of this, I'll come out for my trailer when I'm ready for my close up, you know. Bug of that, it's like seven thirty, you're on with everybody else, get on with it, you know, tell the story.

• 46:46Speaker 06

  I know, you you've been married twice.

• 46:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:49Speaker 06

  Um, and um, I would love to talk to you a little bit about navigating that. Because so many of our listeners, obviously, I am newly married.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  Congratulations.

• 47:01Speaker 06

  Who I was just really best friends with for decades. And I know that you had that experience, but you also, you were married before. And you had a daughter, Millie. And but what what stage in your career did you meet your first husband? Like, how, what, like, where were you at?

• 47:21Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh.

• 47:21Speaker 06

  Was it, were you very young?

• 47:22Speaker 02

  Very, I was twenty five.

• 47:24Speaker 06

  Right, so right at the beginning.

• 47:25Speaker 02

  Barely started.

• 47:27Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 47:27Speaker 02

  And to be honest, because he had a proper job, just like me. I I wouldn't have survived those early, difficult, hungry years without him and his support. So I owe him a lot, you know, and the fact that he really thought what I did was cool. I mean, I suspect, I I think we were way too young, both of us. And that's probably in the end why we couldn't make it work.

• 47:50Speaker 06

  Did you meet him out of love, it wasn't an arranged marriage?

• 47:53Speaker 02

  No.

• 47:54Speaker 06

  No.

• 47:54Speaker 02

  No, although weirdly, I had, I had gone along to have a sort of arranged look at someone. I was in the West End, it was like, this is so typical of my dual existence, you know. In the West End, on the stage, Monday to Saturday, Sunday, off to the Hindu temple in Peckham to meet this boy that my uncle wanted me to meet. On the tube, so bizarre, what a bizarre schizophrenic life, that is just very typical. I've always been juggling.

• 48:19Speaker 06

  But you know what is brilliant, sorry, this just came to my, you know, that's what makes you you.

• 48:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, that I didn't.

• 48:26Speaker 06

  These crazy things in your life, like a little bit of this, little bit of that, little bit of this. You can't, you can't put you anywhere. You are you uniquely because of your brilliant, unique life.

• 48:39Speaker 02

  Very true. And also because I don't believe in sort of writing things of if you haven't sort of given them a chance.

• 48:46Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 48:46Speaker 02

  And so I knew plenty of people I had met through family who, you know, it's not really, I mean, assisted marriage is what they call it now.

• 48:53Speaker 06

  Like um, blind dating.

• 48:55Speaker 02

  Well, yes.

• 48:56Speaker 06

  You meet somebody, I mean, you know, it's a good way.

• 48:58Speaker 02

  It's what loads of communities do and still do. It's like, oh, your auntie so and so knows a nice boy, go and go and have a coffee with him. I mean, it was like that.

• 49:05Speaker 06

  I mean, it might be great.

• 49:06Speaker 02

  Exactly, right?

• 49:06Speaker 06

  Who knows?

• 49:07Speaker 02

  And the fact that your auntie knows the family means that they're all right, we've checked it out, right? Nothing wrong with that.

• 49:12Speaker 06

  Better than a dating app.

• 49:13Speaker 02

  Better, oh, wait, oh, my god. It's like ordering a pizza, isn't it? Extra topping, no.

• 49:18Speaker 06

  No, no, I mean, terrible.

• 49:20Speaker 02

  Really terrible. I think people are swinging away from that, though, thank god.

• 49:23Speaker 06

  I think so too.

• 49:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:25Speaker 06

  So what what I wanted to talk to you about was how you managed to get divorced but still stay friends.

• 49:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:35Speaker 06

  Now, how did you do that? Because I think that would be very helpful for anybody uh, watching that that lots of people are going through that at this time.

• 49:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's not easy.

• 49:45Speaker 06

  It's a big begin again, that.

• 49:46Speaker 02

  It's a big begin again, and it's not easy, and you have to say, and have to know that in advance, unless you're the one of the very lucky one percent. I think whenever you've got children, it's always going to be more complicated, there's no doubt about that. Um, but you sort of have to take a big swallow of pride. You really do, you have to stop the point scoring. You kind of have to let things go, even if they've really hurt you. By the way, I'm making a big distinction now between, if you've been in a full on abusive.

• 50:16Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 50:17Speaker 02

  Very different set of rules, right? There are some women that just can't go near their ex for.

• 50:22Speaker 06

  Love no money.

• 50:23Speaker 02

  Right, okay, very, very important to say that. But for a majority of people, when it's a sad decline.

• 50:30Speaker 02

  I think that you stop with the point scoring, don't slag off your partner in front of your kids, whatever you think of them.

• 50:38Speaker 02

  And just take the bigger picture, which is, we made this child or children, they didn't ask to be born, this is our responsibility now, and we are the grown ups. And however much it hurts to be nice to the ex or their partner. And for me, it wasn't difficult because it was very civilised, but that's what you have to keep in mind. How can we make this and remember the friendship and the love we had before? Because that's what our child wants to see. And that is, in the end, is what goes on to help them come through it as undamaged as possible.

• 51:11Speaker 06

  I really want to say congratulations on doing that. It makes a difference.

• 51:15Speaker 02

  It makes a huge difference.

• 51:18Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 51:18Speaker 02

  And actually, it's remembering that, it's remembering the friendship and what brought you together.

• 51:24Speaker 06

  Hmm.

• 51:24Speaker 02

  Is is really important.

• 51:26Speaker 06

  And then I, you know, obviously, you you and Sanjeev had worked together for for a long time. And you had done the Kumars?

• 51:36Speaker 02

  We were doing the Kumars.

• 51:37Speaker 06

  You were doing the Kumars. So can I just quickly say something that really made me laugh? I went back and looked at our episode, I was in an episode.

• 51:44Speaker 02

  I knew you were.

• 51:44Speaker 06

  With Graham Norton.

• 51:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was fantastic.

• 51:47Speaker 06

  So that would have been, I was pregnant with Holly, my first born.

• 51:51Speaker 02

  Right.

• 51:51Speaker 06

  Who is twenty five next week.

• 51:55Speaker 02

  Oh, my god.

• 51:56Speaker 06

  What?

• 51:56Speaker 02

  What? Yeah.

• 51:58Speaker 06

  So firstly, what I think is interesting, you've been on television forever. You know, like since, like for thirty years or something.

• 52:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 52:08Speaker 06

  And do you look at yourself and go, I don't even recognise you? Like, you are you, but I guess because you're acting, it's slightly different.

• 52:17Speaker 02

  Oh, but you act as you're confronted with your aging process.

• 52:21Speaker 06

  Oh, okay.

• 52:22Speaker 02

  All the time.

• 52:22Speaker 06

  Interesting.

• 52:23Speaker 02

  Of course you are, because there's there's clips of you when you were a baby. And people bring them up and you go, oh, my god, look.

• 52:29Speaker 06

  I just was like.

• 52:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:31Speaker 06

  For me, it was more a confidence thing.

• 52:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, I feel way more confident now.

• 52:36Speaker 06

  Different part, like, I looked at myself and I was like, oh, you're scared. You don't know how to just be.

• 52:42Speaker 02

  Isn't that, I know.

• 52:43Speaker 06

  And I was like, oh, I wanted to kind of get in the telling, give myself a hug, I was like, who are you?

• 52:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:49Speaker 06

  Do you feel like a different person, do you? Do you feel better?

• 52:54Speaker 02

  Oh, my god.

• 52:55Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 52:56Speaker 02

  Like fifty onwards.

• 52:58Speaker 06

  That's great, right?

• 52:59Speaker 02

  It's bloody marvellous. It really is. People who say you get to know yourself in your thirties, no.

• 53:04Speaker 06

  No.

• 53:04Speaker 02

  Not for me. I was getting divorced at around forty, so the forties were time of exploration and discovery. But honestly, I don't think it was until I got into my late forties, early fifties that I went, I think I'm all right. I don't think I'm the piece of fucked up shit I thought I was for the.

• 53:24Speaker 06

  But isn't that mad?

• 53:25Speaker 02

  Mad.

• 53:26Speaker 06

  And thank god we get that moment.

• 53:28Speaker 02

  Yes, I know. Um, and I wish it could happen earlier. And that, I suppose that is a message you want to give to younger women and and go.

• 53:38Speaker 02

  If only you knew what was coming.

• 53:40Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 53:40Speaker 02

  If only you could reach this degree of acceptance now.

• 53:44Speaker 06

  I know.

• 53:45Speaker 02

  But maybe it just does come with age and experience, I don't know, maybe you can't fast track that.

• 53:50Speaker 06

  I feel a lot like that around being a parent.

• 53:54Speaker 02

  Yes, that too.

• 53:55Speaker 06

  I wish I could go back and do it all again now.

• 53:57Speaker 02

  I know. You're just doing it in a blind panic.

• 53:59Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 54:00Speaker 02

  You're so tired, you're panicking, and I know.

• 54:03Speaker 06

  Oh, you're gonna be okay, all fine.

• 54:05Speaker 02

  I know.

• 54:05Speaker 06

  What was I worrying?

• 54:06Speaker 02

  This is where the aunties are actually very useful.

• 54:08Speaker 06

  Right?

• 54:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:09Speaker 06

  I I was also interested to see that you you had a son quite late.

• 54:14Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 54:15Speaker 06

  And um, what a gift.

• 54:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:18Speaker 06

  That that must have been, talk, talk me through that experience of having a child in your forties.

• 54:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's quite, it's quite a shocker.

• 54:26Speaker 06

  It's tiring, right?

• 54:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, oh, my goodness.

• 54:28Speaker 06

  And working as much as.

• 54:30Speaker 02

  I really had to stop work for a couple of years, I couldn't hack it. And also, my darling son decided he didn't really want to sleep.

• 54:37Speaker 06

  No, okay.

• 54:38Speaker 02

  It's one of those.

• 54:39Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 54:40Speaker 02

  Um, lots of bits, but yeah. I had a daughter that I couldn't wake up, and then a son who wouldn't go to sleep, that's what just the universe does, isn't it? So, yeah, I just had to step back because honestly, it was, it was a shocker to the system. And I got twelve years between my kids and I'd and I'd forgotten everything. Like even basic things like, when do they eat and what? When do the teeth come out? I mean, honestly, and then, of course, random child rearing advice changes.

• 55:08Speaker 06

  Oh, I mean, I.

• 55:09Speaker 02

  Solid at three months, solid at six months, no, no, three, no, go back to six. All of that, and that's when.

• 55:15Speaker 06

  That's where the anxiety comes in, I think, as a parent.

• 55:18Speaker 02

  And I was, I did, I made a mistake the second time. The first time round, I went on instinct, and it was a breeze, honestly, in so many ways. And aunties and mum, so much amazing advice. And you go, who do you ask? The child rearing expert who's never had a baby? Or this bunch of women that have had twenty eight babies between them? I know a few things, I think I might ask them. Um, and the second time, I decided to follow this, you know, the Gina Ford method.

• 55:46Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 55:47Speaker 02

  Works for some people, I abandoned it after about three weeks.

• 55:50Speaker 06

  So restrictive, wasn't it? Wasn't it, listen to your baby, it was like, your baby will listen to you.

• 55:54Speaker 02

  Your baby's a robot.

• 55:55Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 55:55Speaker 02

  I mean.

• 55:56Speaker 06

  No, I know, I know.

• 55:57Speaker 02

  I know it works for some people, great, if it, whatever works for you is whatever works for you, it didn't work for me.

• 56:02Speaker 06

  You do you.

• 56:03Speaker 02

  Absolutely do you. The most important thing is, is it aligning with your.

• 56:07Speaker 06

  Yes, gut.

• 56:08Speaker 02

  And when I went back to auntie instinct and gut, it all got a lot easier. But yes, it's a bit of a shocker, having a late baby. The advantage is you're more solvent and you can pay for help, which I I wasn't able to do so much my first bit, then I was so much younger. So there are wins and loses. The big win is, it's a baby.

• 56:32Speaker 02

  It's a baby.

• 56:34Speaker 06

  I can't, I can't.

• 56:34Speaker 02

  It's your baby.

• 56:35Speaker 06

  I really wanna talk to you actually about being um a well-known woman and how tricky is dating.

• 56:43Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 56:43Speaker 06

  Uh, when you're, when you're a well-known woman, it's like, who are you ever gonna like go out with? Cause what I really know about you and Sanjeev is that he and you are each other's champion. And there's no competition or jealousy there about what you do or the success that you have. Because you're just both equally happy for each other.

• 57:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 57:07Speaker 06

  Um, how, what does that feel like?

• 57:10Speaker 02

  I honestly think increasingly the key to all that is your friendship again. Cause we were friends long, long before we ever thought about each other romantically. And in a way, that's when you really get to know someone, cause they haven't got their game face on.

• 57:27Speaker 06

  Yeah, and they're not trying to impress you or anything. So you get the whole truth.

• 57:31Speaker 02

  You get the unfiltered.

• 57:33Speaker 06

  Do you still get that?

• 57:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:35Speaker 06

  Oh, good. Me too.

• 57:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:36Speaker 06

  It's so good.

• 57:37Speaker 02

  And that actually is the best basis.

• 57:39Speaker 06

  So important.

• 57:40Speaker 02

  It's so important because you always, you know, when I was younger, I'd think, why can't I find a fella? That I can relax with like I do with my girlfriends? Oh no, that never happens. Of course that doesn't happen, because that's a different kind of thing. It shouldn't be.

• 57:53Speaker 06

  No.

• 57:53Speaker 02

  The ease that you feel with your girlfriends, that the ability to be you should be exactly what you feel with a partner. It should be like coming home. This is where you kick off your slippers and go, I have to pretend, you know, all my bad bits.

• 58:06Speaker 06

  Cause you've been together a long time now. How long have you been together?

• 58:09Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh, we uh, is it twenty-one years now?

• 58:11Speaker 06

  I mean, that's a long time.

• 58:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:14Speaker 06

  And how is it?

• 58:16Speaker 02

  It's alright, we're still there.

• 58:18Speaker 06

  But it's, that's amazing, right?

• 58:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's just, I don't know, it's sort of a quiet.

• 58:25Speaker 06

  You still, you still love each other?

• 58:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, but in a very sort of quiet and dramatic way.

• 58:31Speaker 06

  Well, it's like furniture, part of the furniture, like.

• 58:35Speaker 02

  In a good way.

• 58:36Speaker 06

  In a good way.

• 58:37Speaker 02

  In a very good way.

• 58:38Speaker 06

  Ease.

• 58:40Speaker 02

  That's what it is, I think. It is that. I think coming home is the best way to describe it. That's how it feels. Sort of walk in the house and the shoulders go like that. All the stresses fall away and you go, oh, good. You're the, you're the person I just wanna talk to about my day every day. And I will bore you silly with it and you're gonna have to sit there and that make me a tea.

• 59:03Speaker 06

  And I bet he does, and I bet he does the same for you and you do the same for him, you know, it's like.

• 59:08Speaker 02

  Totally. It is you, you and the other person against the world. It's got to be.

• 59:12Speaker 06

  Well, and, and if it isn't, you need to re, to rethink or have a big talk about that.

• 59:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:17Speaker 06

  I think the big thing as well, and I know you've gone through it and I'm, I'm going through it, is the empty nest.

• 59:23Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 59:23Speaker 06

  And I've always been a great believer of, I want to give my children wings. So they fly away and never look back.

• 59:32Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 59:32Speaker 06

  But then when that comes to happening, you're like, but look back once or twice.

• 59:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:37Speaker 06

  Please.

• 59:38Speaker 02

  I know.

• 59:38Speaker 06

  Um, and um, they're actually all brilliant and they're going, but then you are left with that person.

• 59:46Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 59:46Speaker 06

  Um, that you are gonna spend the rest of your life with and it's just the two of you.

• 59:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:51Speaker 06

  So you gotta work on that before they go.

• 59:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:54Speaker 06

  And keep it, keep it good because, you know.

• 59:57Speaker 02

  But it can be an amazing reinvention for couples.

• 1:00:00Speaker 06

  Exactly.

• 1:00:01Speaker 02

  Because you suddenly go now, not thinking about GCSEs and football lessons and whatever. Now. I mean, children take up so much of your time.

• 1:00:11Speaker 06

  Hmm.

• 1:00:12Speaker 02

  Here we are across the breakfast.

• 1:00:13Speaker 06

  What do you want?

• 1:00:14Speaker 02

  Hello again. Hi. It can be actually.

• 1:00:18Speaker 06

  Can't say shag.

• 1:00:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. Well, it can be wonderful. Not with my bat, love. What time is it? Oh, no.

• 1:00:27Speaker 06

  A cup of tea.

• 1:00:32Speaker 06

  I, I, I also think that like, um, Mi- Michael said to me last year. Um, uh, he said, what, what do you want? You know, what, what, what do you want?

• 1:00:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:45Speaker 06

  Cause he's got like so many wants. He wants to go and learn about this and he wants to do this and he wants to go and help men, mental health. And I was like, God, you've got so many things. He said, what do you want? I was like.

• 1:00:56Speaker 02

  And you had to rethink about that.

• 1:00:57Speaker 06

  I don't know. Um.

• 1:00:59Speaker 02

  A good to ask question, right?

• 1:01:00Speaker 06

  Brilliant Jenny, what do you want?

• 1:01:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:02Speaker 06

  Mira.

• 1:01:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do I want?

• 1:01:04Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:01:05Speaker 02

  Do you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm living the wants.

• 1:01:10Speaker 06

  Oh, Mira, that's so good.

• 1:01:12Speaker 02

  I mean, if you'd have told, you know, the ten-year-old chubby brown girl from Wolverhampton. That at my age, I'd be making a living out of the thing I never thought I'd get anywhere close to achieving. The thing I loved more than anything, would not have believed you. And here I am. So to be doing that, which was such a pipe dream is, um, I mean, what more could I have asked for? That is just wondrous to me that I'm, I'm still able to do that. That, you know, thank you. I have a wonderful partner, wonderful friends, wonderful children. I have enough to eat, have a roof over my head. I mean, tick, tick, that, that, there's so many things that couldn't be there.

• 1:01:56Speaker 02

  There are still so many things that might happen and go wrong, but right now.

• 1:02:01Speaker 02

  I'm so grateful.

• 1:02:03Speaker 06

  I think it's um also historically quite a tricky time for women. Um, I mean, when they go through kind of midlife, like maybe late forties onwards. Where you've got teenage kids and um, parents who are unwell and caring and everything. And I know that, you know, you looking after your dad, especially when he had um dementia and Alzheimer's. That was like a, that was exhausting. And I had the same thing with my dad, but my stepmom was around. But she, she cared for him a lot and through Covid and everything, it was really dreadful. What, how was it for you when your parents went? Cause I know you were very close.

• 1:02:45Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:02:47Speaker 06

  What was that like, that experience?

• 1:02:48Speaker 02

  That thing was probably the hardest phase of my life and it lasted a good twelve years.

• 1:02:53Speaker 06

  Yeah, God. And you start saying goodbye from the minute they get diagnosed, right?

• 1:02:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a slow, long goodbye. Um, my, my, both my parents got ill at the same time, unfortunately. So my mum had cancer and my dad was diagnosed with Alzheimer's within weeks.

• 1:03:10Speaker 06

  Oh my God, that is so.

• 1:03:12Speaker 02

  And they were living in the Midlands and we both suddenly had to move them both down. So it was very emergent. It was like an emergency situation. We had to react very quickly.

• 1:03:20Speaker 06

  Working, you've got kids.

• 1:03:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then I had a young child and a teenage daughter and this. Honestly, it was a very grueling period and we all had to pull together. Um, and yeah, and, and, you know, I write in the book, you know, this whole chapter about my dad's Alzheimer's and how it affected us as a family and how we, we cope with it. And I do say in there, I know how many people are going through this, how you are the feeling in this horrible sandwich. And you never think it's gonna end. And I just sort of wanna do that to everyone because it's like, it's the hardest phase of life. And it happens to a lot of us. And we really did have to reach out for a lot of support. The Alzheimer's Society were amazing, I have to say.

• 1:04:02Speaker 06

  You're an ambassador for them, aren't you?

• 1:04:04Speaker 02

  That's why I became an ambassador, because they really held us up. Because you're in this foreign land, you're like, I don't. Yesterday, my life was different. My life has turned overnight. I'm in a new land with new vocabulary, a disease I know nothing about. I've got to think about care. What's my financial position? What's my legal position? What, what, what? I've got a million questions.

• 1:04:26Speaker 06

  And not enough hours in the day.

• 1:04:27Speaker 02

  Not enough hours in the day to cope with it. So it profoundly affected us on every level. Mum moved in with us, dad had to go into care because he didn't, he had Capgras syndrome. So he didn't recognise mum and they couldn't live in the same house. And my brother and I shared care with my mum and my dad. So whole absolute shift of life. We had to move house or everything, everything changed, everything.

• 1:04:53Speaker 06

  I'm talking about gratitude. I think that's one of the reasons why now it's like.

• 1:04:58Speaker 02

  We, we got through it.

• 1:04:59Speaker 06

  You did it.

• 1:05:00Speaker 02

  We got through it. But also the journey, I think it's very hard. And when you're in the middle of this journey, to think of anything positive. Because all you can think about is this is the cruelest disease and why and awful and how. But when my, when your loved one enters the phase where they really are in their own world.

• 1:05:24Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 1:05:26Speaker 02

  In a way, you think, maybe you're happier there than you were in this one. And my job is to go into that world with you.

• 1:05:36Speaker 06

  And be happy in that.

• 1:05:38Speaker 02

  And if you want to think that I am mum fifty years ago, I am mum fifty years ago. And I will be that for this hour I'm with you today. Of course I'll be that. And I'm not gonna go, no dad, you don't, no, just the wrong thing to do. And somewhere you think spiritually, your soul is just going on another little journey here. And I can't come with you this time. But my God, I will do everything in my power to make sure wherever you're going next is good.

• 1:06:11Speaker 02

  So, yeah, you know that one. And I'm sorry, your dad suffered too.

• 1:06:18Speaker 06

  Um, yeah, I mean,

• 1:06:21Speaker 06

  but you're right, I think, about people going somewhere and they're happy. It's just you're still there watching and how painful that is.

• 1:06:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:31Speaker 06

  You mentioned your dad earlier and what he'd been through and you taking him back to his home that he had before he was forced to leave. And could you just talk to me about, because I knew that India had been colonized, but actually I knew a woeful amount about what happened during that time and how hard it was and how many people died, actually. So could you just talk to me about what life was like for your parents in India at that time?

• 1:06:57Speaker 02

  Okay, so India, obviously the British sort of started off as traders and then became colonizers. And that was a slow process over two, 250 years. And they were the first multinational, really, if you think of it like that. And my father grew up, India was one big undivided country. My father grew up in Lahore, which was known as the Paris of the East, one of the most beautiful, vibrant artistic cities, and he loved it. And in 1947, when the British finally left, having used all of India's resources to fund the Industrial Revolution and

• 1:07:33Speaker 06

  Wow, yeah.

• 1:07:34Speaker 02

  So all the colonized wealth made Britain what it was, a world power. All of that wealth went there. And in 1947, India was divided into three. So, and if you lived in a majority Muslim area, that became Pakistan, East Pakistan and West Pakistan. If you think of the shape of India like an elephant, two big ears like that, then basically the ears were cut off either side. And the border was drawn up by a lawyer in London who'd never been to India.

• 1:08:07Speaker 06

  I mean, that's mad, isn't it? When you think about that.

• 1:08:11Speaker 02

  It's mad.

• 1:08:11Speaker 06

  That people's whole lives.

• 1:08:14Speaker 02

  On the stroke of a pen.

• 1:08:15Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:08:16Speaker 02

  With very little notice.

• 1:08:17Speaker 06

  And without kind of any understanding.

• 1:08:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:20Speaker 06

  And the, you know, real people, your parents,

• 1:08:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:24Speaker 06

  sort of in the cogmire.

• 1:08:26Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 1:08:27Speaker 06

  And that's left. So, and it was 1947.

• 1:08:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:32Speaker 06

  And then your parents left a bit later.

• 1:08:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, 1959. And the reason that he came to Britain is that there was no prospects for him in India. The economy was destroyed.

• 1:08:50Speaker 02

  GDP in India was in the, you know, 40, 40%. It was a massively wealthy country before it's colonized and it was 1% or 2% when

• 1:09:00Speaker 06

  Oh, my God.

• 1:09:01Speaker 02

  So when people go, why, why go back to where you come from? Why are you here? You go, if you knew a bit more about history, you'd know we are here because you were there. I don't think my mom and dad, who chooses to leave their homeland, their family, their roots? Who wants to do that unless you have to, right? Because you have no prospects.

• 1:09:21Speaker 06

  You leave, you leave half your heart there.

• 1:09:23Speaker 02

  Of course you do. But that's in the end why they came here. And I used to ask them quite often, do you ever regret it? And not once did they say, we regret it, never. They honestly felt that Britain gave them the choices and more importantly, their children, the choices and the prospects they would have never have had. And I'm really grateful I grew up because I got the British sense of humor. I got this amazing legacy and the art and the creativity of this incredible artistic heritage here. So that was amazing for me to grow up with that.

• 1:09:57Speaker 06

  Before we end, and I will try and finish on a happier note at the end of this bit. I really want to talk to you about your sexual assault. Because

• 1:10:08Speaker 02

  Sorry, was that the happy note we're ending on?

• 1:10:10Speaker 06

  Yeah, I'm gonna end on a happy note at the end of this.

• 1:10:13Speaker 02

  Okay, okay, just so people know.

• 1:10:14Speaker 06

  Talk about your book after this, but I just quickly wanted to say, because that really spoke to me. Because you correctly said, like, 90% of your friends from our era, 60s, 70s, have suffered a, or numerous sexual assaults of some sort. It was gropey, it was a gropey era.

• 1:10:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:39Speaker 06

  And more than that as well. And normalized, completely normalized. That you have spoken out about it. And when you speak to other people, it's like, oh, yeah, that happened to me. I've never spoken about it.

• 1:10:49Speaker 02

  This is what shocked me.

• 1:10:50Speaker 06

  Right?

• 1:10:51Speaker 02

  When I sat in a room, I really thought hard about including it because I knew, obviously, once it's out there, it's out there and people will ask about it. And the last thing you want to do is to be prurient or sensationalist.

• 1:11:03Speaker 06

  Yeah, or become like a spokesperson.

• 1:11:05Speaker 02

  Right, it's actually two pages in the whole book. That's all it is, but of course people have asked about it.

• 1:11:11Speaker 06

  Well, I, but I, do you know why? Because I think it does help women.

• 1:11:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:17Speaker 06

  It was like when Gisele Pelliko went, no, I am talking about it.

• 1:11:21Speaker 02

  Exactly that.

• 1:11:21Speaker 06

  It was like, oh, thank you.

• 1:11:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:24Speaker 06

  Because we don't.

• 1:11:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, we don't. And what convinced me is when I tested this out with a bunch of girlfriends and I said, look, this happened, I don't know whether to put it in the book. And then one by one, the hands went up around the room and I went, you're kidding me?

• 1:11:41Speaker 02

  And a lot of them had never, never said anything. That's how normalized it was.

• 1:11:47Speaker 02

  And also because it happened at a time in my life where it would have been really easy to give up. You know, I wasn't working, I was very young, I'd only been in the business about a year, year and a half. Money had run out, luck had run out, I was homeless, sleeping on floors. And it would have been really easy to go, and I nearly did go, I can't do this. If this is what it's gonna be like, can't do this. And then it led me to find a writers' group and a bunch of aunties and a bunch of incredible women that absolutely changed the course of my life. I became politicized, I became angry, I wanted to write.

• 1:12:24Speaker 06

  Useful, yeah.

• 1:12:25Speaker 02

  This writers' group maybe wanted to create characters that were braver than me and rawed. And then through that group, I met someone that said, you're homeless, I'm in a housing association flat, I'll help you fill in the four. I found a place to live.

• 1:12:40Speaker 06

  Oh, wow.

• 1:12:40Speaker 02

  I found a whole bunch of friends. Actually, it was a big turning point in my life. And if I had given up and blamed myself and shrunk and taken on the shame like we all do, that wouldn't have happened. And I thought, for that reason, it's quite important to go, this does not have to define you. Your greatest revenge is to be happy.

• 1:13:03Speaker 06

  Yes. I mean, I think what I love about you and this book is that everyone, but especially women, will get a lot from this book.

• 1:13:17Speaker 02

  I hope so.

• 1:13:17Speaker 06

  Yeah. That there is a lot of your gratitude, a lot of your hope, a lot of your light. You're such a beautiful woman, Mira, I love you. So, no, honestly, you are an absolute gem and a real torchbearer, I think, for women. And I'm very grateful to you for that.

• 1:13:40Speaker 02

  Thank you, and so do you.

• 1:13:42Speaker 06

  Well, everybody vigilante is a brilliant book. You must go and get it.

• 1:13:51Speaker 06

  I love, don't sit with your legs apart. You can only get fat after you're married. These are all the things you said earlier, this really, an Asian comedy sketch show. Are Asians funny? God, this is mad, isn't it?

• 1:14:01Speaker 02

  It's mad.

• 1:14:02Speaker 06

  The other thing I keep thinking about, and this is the one happy note to end on, is that you and Sanjeev got together, but you played his grandma. That's quite mad, isn't it?

• 1:14:11Speaker 02

  I've talked to my therapist about that.

• 1:14:13Speaker 06

  I bet you have.

• 1:14:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:14Speaker 06

  I love that. I thought, hang on a minute.

• 1:14:17Speaker 02

  I know. At least he knows what I'm gonna look like. In 20 years' time, there are absolutely no surprises there. I told you, I warned you, you saw this coming, don't complain.

• 1:14:28Speaker 06

  You can't complain.

• 1:14:31Speaker 06

  Thank you so much. I'm so grateful.

• 1:14:33Speaker 02

  So welcome, thank you for having me.

• 1:14:35Speaker 06

  Thanks for being so open and wise. So just in case you missed this episode here, if you love this episode, I know you're gonna love that.

• 1:14:51Speaker 00

  When fall comes back around, there's a sense of a reset. And new pieces from Lululemon's Fall Drop are an inspiration to push your goals and elevate your routines. As your calendar fills, easy-to-layer styles meet the demands of your day. And as you challenge yourself to try even more, versatile sets transition with you. The Lululemon Fall Lineup brings new levels of comfort and confidence, whether you're starting something fresh or starting something over. Check out the latest arrivals in store and on lululemon.com now.

• 1:15:20Speaker 01

  Stonefire Knan is baked in blazing high heat to give you buttery, charred flatbread for any meal.

• 1:15:25Speaker 02

  I love it, with tzatziki and barbecue chicken.

• 1:15:28Speaker 03

  Stonefire Knan is great when you're lost in the woods with your leg in a bear trap.

• 1:15:32Speaker 04

  I love making Knan grilled cheese. Is that guy okay?

• 1:15:35Speaker 03

  I'm in shock by that buttermilk taste.

• 1:15:38Speaker 02

  Works great for pizza. Can we get him some help?

• 1:15:41Speaker 03

  You can share Stonefire Knan with your friends, like this friendly Wolverine.

• 1:15:46Speaker 04

  Doesn't sound friendly.

• 1:15:47Speaker 01

  From our tradition to yours, Stonefire, together we Knan.

• 1:15:51Speaker 05

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPact.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee. Honey, that flu keeping you up? Did you take Nyquil Intense Flu? Nah, I got this. Okay, I don't got this. Yeah, you need Nyquil Intense Flu.

• 1:16:33Speaker 04

  Undo your flu with Nyquil Intense Flu. Nyquil Intense Flu provides powerful relief of your flu symptoms so you can sleep.

• 1:16:41Speaker 04

  You do got this. Nyquil Intense Flu, the nighttime sniffling, aching, aching fever best sleep with a flu medicine. Uses directed, keep out of reach of children.