Patsy Kensit on Being a Child Star, 90’s Icon & Living With Grief

What happens when the life everyone sees as extraordinary has been shaped by trauma, loss and the constant need to survive? In this episode of Begin Again, Patsy Kensit joins Davina for an emotional and deeply personal conversation about childhood fame, love, grief, PTSD, motherhood, addiction, losing everything and finding the strength to start again. Patsy looks back on an extraordinary life in the spotlight: beginning her career at just four years old in The Great Gatsby, becoming one of Britain’s most recognisable young stars, working alongside Hollywood icons and finding herself at the centre of 80s and 90s pop culture. She shares unforgettable stories from Lethal Weapon 2, meeting David Bowie and the surreal experiences that came with growing up famous. But behind the success was a childhood filled with fear. Patsy opens up about being told at six years old that her mother could die, growing up with a father who was repeatedly in prison, and the secrets she carried to protect her family. She reveals how a PTSD diagnosis decades later finally helped her understand the sadness, depression and fear she had lived with for most of her life. She also reflects honestly on love and marriage, including her relationship with Liam Gallagher and the pressure of becoming one half of one of the most famous couples of the 90s. Patsy explains how the relationship became “bigger than me”, why she felt she lost part of who she was, and how becoming a mother ultimately forced her life to change. Now, after losing her home and everything she had financially, Patsy is rebuilding from scratch. As she returns to Emmerdale more than 20 years after first playing Sadie King, she reflects on survival, gratitude, getting older and why, after everything life has thrown at her, she still chooses to see each new day as another chance to begin again. This is a conversation about fame, family, grief, identity, survival and what it really means to find yourself again. 🌟 Like, comment and subscribe for more honest conversations about purpose, resilience, love, loss and beginning again. Follow us here:📸 www.instagram.com/beginagain🎥 https://www.tiktok.com/@beginagainpod Follow Patsy Here: https://www.instagram.com/patsykensit/?hl=en ✨ Sign up for the Begin Again newsletter for behind-the-scenes access, recommendations and much more: https://linkly.link/2g2xm We'd love you to share your Get Busy Living stories with us at https://getbusyliving.beginagainshow.com/ (00:00) Intro (01:17) Returning to Emmerdale After Years Away (05:17) A PTSD Diagnosis and the Childhood Fear That Never Left (08:56) Growing Up With a Father in and out of Prison (11:30) The Reality of Life as a Child Star (14:04) Davian Reads Your Stories (Monzo Ad) (16:40) Behind the Scenes of Lethal Weapon 2 (26:34) Clubbing at 14 at the Famous WAG Club (29:24) Memories of Working With David Bowie (31:55) Marrying First Husband Dan Donovan (33:13) Davina tries Monzo (Ad) (34:21) Garnier Ad (38:19) The Deep Importance of Marriage (42:38) Meeting Jim Kerr and Their Relationship (49:19) Losing Her Mother and Coping With Grief (57:13) Inside a Turbulent Relationship With Liam Gallagher (01:01:10) Alcohol, Addiction and Finding AA (01:02:49) Living With Depression and PTSD (01:06:41) Hysterectomy and the Reality of Perimenopause Sponsored by: Download Monzo. Monzo Current Accounts are for 16+ and UK residents. Ts&Cs Apply. Join the 'Say Yes Club' and hear more about our events here - https://events.beginagainshow.com/ Mastercard's exchange rate applies. Monzo Current Accounts are for 16+ and UK residents. Ts&Cs Apply Garnier Nutrisse: UK's NO1 hair dye, chosen by 2 million women. Davina is shade 5 Mocha Brown. Find yours: www.garnier.co.uk/our-brands/hair-colour/nutrisse-creme Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

  When fall comes back around, there's a sense of a reset. And new pieces from Lululemon's fall drop are an inspiration to push your goals and elevate your routines. As your calendar fills, easy-to-layer styles meet the demands of your day. And as you challenge yourself to try even more, versatile sets transition with you. The Lululemon Fall lineup brings new levels of comfort and confidence, whether you're starting something fresh or starting something over. Check out the latest arrivals in store and on lululemon.com now.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  David Bowie walked into the dressing room, picked up a hairbrush.

• 0:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, and brushed my hair.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  Come on, we're practically married.

• 0:36Speaker 02

  It's the most erotic experience of my life.

• 0:39Speaker 01

  Today, I am joined by the legendary actress, singer, and model, Patsy Kensit.

• 0:45Speaker 02

  I started working when I was four, and my mum, she had cancer. So I wanted to work because I thought I could make her well again if I worked, so I could buy her her health.

• 0:56Speaker 01

  We talk about finding love through some of life's messiest chapters.

• 1:01Speaker 02

  I was a hopeless romantic. I just seemed to have married all my boyfriends.

• 1:05Speaker 01

  What's good about us doing this today is it's a chance to set the record straight, unedited.

• 1:11Speaker 02

  Hit me!

• 1:12Speaker 01

  She opens up about grief and what it's like to navigate a life that's changed in ways you never imagined.

• 1:17Speaker 02

  I was told at the age of six, my mother was gonna die. By the 22, I'd been to the hospital probably a dozen times to say goodbye to her. And when I got a call and they just said, "She's gone," and I just screamed, "No, no, no, no, no!"

• 1:33Speaker 01

  And if there's one thing that Patsy reminds us...

• 1:36Speaker 02

  I'm a survivor. You just take each day at a time.

• 1:39Speaker 01

  It's that sometimes the bravest thing that we can do is simply begin again.

• 1:47Speaker 01

  I am sat with a friend of mine who I've basically known for, what, like 45 years or something like that?

• 1:54Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  Patsy Kensit, the icon. I'd like to kick off by thinking to you about...

• 2:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  Emma Dail, you are back!

• 2:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:05Speaker 01

  Sadie is back. Is she still mean?

• 2:10Speaker 02

  You know, I just don't want to spoil anything for the viewers, but she's back. I mean, I've been filming nearly two months now, actually.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  Really?

• 2:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, hence the very puffy eyes today, because it's a lot of dialogue, a lot of learning, which is really good. And actually, my age, yeah, being 58, just that memory muscle and knowing that you can still grab the lines and remember them and also then work on your performance. But yes, you know, she's back, and I'm only back for six months, but the storylines are fantastic. It's written really well. She's definitely not who we think she... She's...I can't say if I say too much.

• 2:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, don't give too much away.

• 2:56Speaker 02

  I don't want to give it away.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  We don't want that.

• 2:58Speaker 02

  It's gonna be, it's a hell of a ride, and I'm in the middle, right in the middle of it at the moment. And everyone has been so gorgeous to me coming back, you know, after, say, 20 years.

• 3:08Speaker 01

  20 years?

• 3:09Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  I mean, it feels like two!

• 3:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like it was yesterday again. But to go back and then have cast members that have, you know, stayed on the show or had left and then gone back to the show, just to see them again. And there's the real truth about the Yorkshire and the Yorkshire welcome, and that is something that I've had in spades going back on the show. And I was nervous, very, very, very nervous about it. And one of the cast members, Mark Charnock, he plays Marlon Dingle, and Mark and I were really great, great mates. And he sort of phoned me up and was like, "PK, you're coming back," and da-da-da. And I went, "Yes, but Mark, I'm shitting myself." And he was like, "Why?" I said, "I'm so scared." And he said, "Do you know what?

• 3:56Speaker 02

  It'd be weird if you weren't."

• 3:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:59Speaker 02

  And that's because I genuinely care, and I love that character so much, and so I don't want to do her a disservice. But they've been great to me, really, really great. Great cast, crew, across the board.

• 4:12Speaker 01

  Had you ever entertained coming back? Was it a shock when they asked you?

• 4:17Speaker 02

  It came out of nowhere.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  How nice!

• 4:19Speaker 02

  Which is lovely, to get that call. And then just said, you know, "Do you want to come up and have a meeting?" So me and my agent did that. Loved being back in Leeds again, put me up in the same hotel that I used to stay in when I was shooting it all those years ago. So it was just seeing faces that still work at the hotel, remember me from before. I jumped at it. And it's people on soaps, the hardest working people in our business. I mean, the amount of script, I mean, I've bought my book.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  It really is a book. It's a folder, isn't it?

• 4:52Speaker 02

  It's a folder. And that's, I sort of had, that never leaves my side. And just having to get on top of the, you know, learning and finding out what works mentally for you.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  Nowadays, it feels a bit more like my inbox is full.

• 5:08Speaker 02

  Right.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  I've just been remembering things my entire life, and now I feel like there's not much space left. I'm having to download things.

• 5:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 5:20Speaker 01

  But actually, what I've been finding, and I don't know if you've been finding this, and perhaps going into Emma Dail is a chance for you to look back over your life, that I've been going back and looking at all my experiences as a child and people that I met, and looking at it with a different set of glasses on.

• 5:40Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  Have you been doing that a bit?

• 5:43Speaker 02

  What's going on from what you were saying and looking back over everything? I was diagnosed with PTSD about three and a half years ago. And so I do suffer from depression, and that's something that is, I mean, I'm a very joyful person, and I'm so grateful for all the blessings I've had in my life. But there's a sadness, and... I'm crying already. And I always attributed it to things not working out with my partners and that I had my children with. And I thought that that was the reason that I was carrying a bit of pathos. And what was brought to my attention was the trauma that I was going through as a

• 6:28Speaker 02

  child, because I was told at the age of six, my mother was gonna die. By the age of 11 or 12, I'd been to the hospital probably a dozen times to say goodbye to her, and then she would just pull herself. But she was the most incredible woman, a living example of manifestation, mind over matter, with, you know, had cancer. So just to remain positive, watching shows that are funny as opposed to, you know, watching deep dives on some poor soul's life, just trying to keep that positivity up. And she was just a master at it. But what it did for me was, I recall being about seven or eight, and I used to say this

• 7:12Speaker 02

  thing, "I'm having a bad thought, I'm having a bad thought." And if one of my kids had said that to me growing up, I'd immediately, you know, panic and be on it. And my mum was so great about it, because she used to say, "Oh, just cancel it, don't worry about it, you know? This woman's fighting for her life." And I wanted to work because I thought, and that was a childish kind of suit, but I thought that I could make her well again if I worked and earned money, so I could buy her her health. And of course, that's not, wasn't possible, but I had her for, she died when I was like 21, 22. James is just coming up to his first birthday.

• 7:56Speaker 02

  And I miss her every day.

• 8:01Speaker 02

  I was dealing, I've been dealing with this all my life, if that makes sense. And it's so good that people can talk about this stuff now and not be sort of blacklisted and, you know, people don't think you can work or anything. But I'm a very open person. I've had to be, you know, journeys. It's been a real journey.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  I read about your PTSD diagnosis, and I thought that makes complete sense. You have been, it's not just fight or flight, it's extreme fight or flight. But you know, it wasn't just that your mum was fighting for her life and you were gonna lose your mum, who you loved so much. But she was your anchor.

• 8:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  And your dad was in and out of prison.

• 8:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  And that's...

• 8:54Speaker 02

  Absent the whole time.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Absent.

• 8:55Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  So she was so important.

• 8:58Speaker 02

  She was everything, everything.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  And what's interesting is that...

• 9:03Speaker 02

  Sort of romantically, historically for me, I've always chosen people that have to go travel and go away for their work. Because that was a familiar thing to me. I was used to the male energy in my life not, not being there. And, you know, every girl loves her daddy. And he was a very flawed character, but he was my dad, and I loved him.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  Can we talk about your dad? Because you, you know, you loved your mum and your dad.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  But your dad was in and out of prison.

• 9:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:36Speaker 01

  He was part of a kind of criminal network.

• 9:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  But to you, he was just your dad.

• 9:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  Were you, were you aware of what he was as a little girl? I mean, obviously not at four or five, but at eight, nine, 10, did you know what prison was?

• 9:53Speaker 02

  Yes, I did. My mother would never let us go and see him when he was in prison. I think she really wanted to take that horror away from us. Whether, I mean, I remember writing to my, my dad constantly when he was inside and he, you know, I loved getting letters from him. But I didn't, the longest I didn't see him was for seven years. I know. And he was like 14, that was the last time he went to prison. I was 14 when he came out and I'd become, you know, this girl that was sneaking out and going to the wag club and just having the best time. So I changed so much. He'd missed a huge, a huge portion of my life.

• 10:37Speaker 01

  Was your relationship different when he came out?

• 10:39Speaker 02

  It was.

• 10:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:40Speaker 02

  It was. I'd sort of lost respect for him a little bit. And that's, I mean, I'd, I'd heard it said in that, those circles, years ago, you know, listen, you go to prison once and that's it. You don't, you, you never want to go back again. And it was almost like I felt like when he came out the last time that he'd been institutionalized. You know, he'd be up at four, keeping his really weird hours. And he was a lot older than my mum, my mum. I mean, both of them were very cagey about their age and their marital status. Because in fact, they didn't get married till a week before my dad died. So they've been living in sin. Because I, you always used to say, I'd love to see your wedding pictures, mum. I'd love to see this and that. And you go, oh, we'll find some for you.

• 11:24Speaker 01

  You didn't know they weren't married?

• 11:26Speaker 02

  Didn't find out.

• 11:27Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. That's so funny.

• 11:29Speaker 02

  I know. And I phoned up one of my mum's.

• 11:30Speaker 01

  I suppose there was a lot of shame back then if you weren't.

• 11:33Speaker 02

  In those days, yeah.

• 11:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:34Speaker 02

  I believe he had another family completely. And there were, you know, other Kentsis out there. But then that to me is, I, it's something I never, I didn't grow up knowing about. I didn't, you know, my, looking after my mum and pursuing success were the, were the two main things in my life. And then horses and then boys.

• 12:01Speaker 01

  I mean, you started working, and this is so unbelievable, at four.

• 12:06Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 12:07Speaker 01

  So whose idea was that? Was that like you going, I want to be, I want to go to a club, after school club? Or was it your mum going, I think you could do this?

• 12:17Speaker 02

  My mum's friend started this agency. And she asked my mum, she just started it up. And she said, listen, as a favour, can you put Patty on, on the book with me? Because I just, I'm trying to get client base going. And I was only four. So my mum, her name was Rhonda, this woman. And my mum was like, um, yeah, sure. Okay. And she got a call saying, okay, Margie, my mum's name was Margaret, but everyone called her Margie. And she was like, Margie, listen, um, please, can you do a favour for me? Paramount are doing The Great Gatsby with Mia Farrow and Robert Redford. And they're casting, they, they need me to

• 12:58Speaker 02

  send five little girls, around Patty's age, to go and meet Jack Clayton, the director. And can you just go as a favour? It's, you know, she's not going to get it. And so I went along. And I remember going to, to Pinewood.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Do you? You actually remember it? God, that's amazing.

• 13:16Speaker 02

  So clearly. And sort of we'd leave the house with the outside, outside toilet and, and the mattress was on the floor, which is what it was. But it was my home and I loved it.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:27Speaker 02

  And then getting this chauffeur driven car with the guy in the, in the, like with the hat on, the whole kitten caboodle. And just going to this other world. Anyway, I went, I got the part. So that's how it started. And then Ralph Lauren did all the costumes for the film. So I was getting fitted, you know, with everything down to like little lace gloves and lovely booties and just stunning, stunning costumes. And working with these icons. I mean, Mia Farrow was just divine.

• 14:01Speaker 01

  Was so sweet to me.

• 14:02Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 14:02Speaker 01

  Was she?

• 14:03Speaker 02

  Robert Redford was, I, I noticed even at that young age, when he'd come onto the set, they, women would get very giggly all of a sudden. And, you know, it was, my mum was one of them. Then I thought, why are they all getting so excited about this very tall blonde person? And then of course, I understood it now. I mean, he was like the Brad Pitt.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:24Speaker 02

  Of, you know, our days. I mean, such a sad loss. Because, you know, he was so important to a lot of people. And his films were.

• 14:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:32Speaker 02

  He was, he was a genius.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  What's one thing you'd love to be able to say you've done? Well, Monzo's sponsoring Begin Again to help us win back some time so we can do more of what we love. I wanted to know what that thing was for you. So let's have a look and see who we've got. So Shane didn't try just one new thing. He tried a hundred. Let's hear it.

• 14:55Speaker 03

  After losing my mum to stage four cancer, I wrote a bucket list of a hundred things to reconnect with who I was when I was a little boy. I've done things from friendship bracelets, knock door run, roller blades, I've sat my GCSE exams, failed miserably, did a wing walk where I stood on top of a plane. Every time I tick something off, it reminds me of the potential life can be.

• 15:14Speaker 01

  That's exactly why I started this podcast, to fulfil our life's potential. Shane, I'm actually doing maths lessons, which is quite funny. I'm loving it. And Shane says something else happened when he started going out there and doing all this. He met someone special. Look what that shows us about what can happen when you start saying yes to life. So let's do this. Let's say yes more. In fact, I'm going to make it happen right now. I'm calling it the Say Yes Club. We're going to take one thing we've always wanted to do, and we are actually going to do it. So I'm going to put a link in the description for you to come and join us. Because that's exactly the thing that Monzo is here to help with.

• 15:58Speaker 01

  They put our money to work in the background, sorted, saved, sent where it needs to go. So our energy is free to say yes to more things in life. Monzo current accounts are for UK residents, age 16 plus. Ts and Cs apply.

• 16:13Speaker 04

  Whenever fall comes back around, it always feels like a fresh start. This year, I've been layering in some styles from the new Lululemon fall drop, because the weather is shifting and I find I have to be ready for the entire day and not just one part of it. Lululemon's fall line has some really versatile transitional pieces. So I can just wake up, throw on a matching set, add a jacket or a fleece and head out, knowing that I'll feel comfortable enough to go wherever the day takes me. Check out the new fall arrivals in store and online now at lululemon.com.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  I mean, you know, you've gone straight into The Great Gatsby, but let's not forget Bird's Eye Peas, because I remember Bird's Eye Peas.

• 16:49Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:49Speaker 01

  I remember as a four year old girl, seeing you and thinking how cool it was that you were in an advert and that you could do that. And I've got such long fake nails now. I can't pop anymore.

• 17:00Speaker 02

  Can't pop.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  I can't do it.

• 17:01Speaker 02

  It's important to pop, you know?

• 17:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:03Speaker 02

  God. I've got a groove on the inside of my mouth.

• 17:07Speaker 01

  From popping so much.

• 17:08Speaker 02

  From having to do that. Seriously, as a kid. And there's this one side in my, in my cheek, there's a little, with a, and I, my nail, obviously he was catching it. But there you go. That was, and what was fascinating about doing those commercials were, they were directed by Ridley Scott.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  No.

• 17:27Speaker 02

  Yep. Tony Scott, his brother. Yeah.

• 17:29Speaker 01

  No.

• 17:29Speaker 02

  Adrian Lyne.

• 17:31Speaker 01

  What?

• 17:31Speaker 02

  Years, years later, I was in, I was having, I was hot for sort of 15 minutes in, in the States. And just been in, you know, huge movie.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  Lethal Weapon.

• 17:43Speaker 02

  Which is the.

• 17:44Speaker 01

  Wait, stop, park the car. Wait, we've just got, you've just said Lethal Weapon. I just need to just quickly say.

• 17:49Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  Every red blooded male with any sense, that was such an iconic, I mean, Lee Francis was obsessed with that. You know, Michael's talked about it. We made Tom Go Red earlier talking about it. I mean, it, it was, it shot you into the stratosphere of fame there.

• 18:12Speaker 02

  It was a big thing.

• 18:13Speaker 01

  You were already famous, but that was massive. What was that like?

• 18:17Speaker 02

  That was fantastic. The, the Christmas before I went into audition for it. And there's an interesting story, because just quickly going back to The Great Gatsby, the woman who cast me in that, gosh, Maureen, someone, does something. I was watching years later to read for a part in the Batman, the Jack Nicholson film.

• 18:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:39Speaker 02

  And the casting director said, I don't think he'll be right for this, but there's something, a project that is right for you. And I'm going back to, to LA next week. I'm, you're, you're perfect. She said, and you don't remember, you don't remember me, do you? And I, I was like, no.

• 18:56Speaker 01

  It's awful when somebody asks you that, isn't it? Oh, God.

• 19:00Speaker 02

  She said, I put you in your first film. I cast you in the, in, in.

• 19:03Speaker 01

  Great Gatsby.

• 19:05Speaker 02

  So that was a kind of a full circle moment. So I got, I was in LA and I got a call, you know, can you come out to Warner Brothers and just meet a few people? I remember just that Christmas going, I watched Mutiny, the, the Noel Gibson version of it, not the Marlon Brando. And I remember thinking, oh, my gosh, I would love to work with somebody that looked like him. Wouldn't that be wonderful? And, you know, I obviously put it, put it out there to the universe. And then I walked into this, this room in LA years later and.

• 19:42Speaker 02

  There was sitting Joel Silver, the producer.

• 19:45Speaker 01

  That's very weird, isn't it?

• 19:45Speaker 02

  Very strange. Joel Silver, Richard Donner, the director, and like hunk of the century Mel, sitting in this room. And I was just, I couldn't believe it. And we read a scene together and they said, okay, great. Are you, you know, available in January? You know, all good. And the casting lady, I can't remember her name, it's terrible because she did so much for me. She said, Richard, Joel, I just need to talk to you. And they left the room and it's just me and Mel sitting there, sort of side by side. And I was like, I said, hey, you're Catholic. And he said, oh, yeah, I am.

• 20:27Speaker 02

  And he said, is it you? I said, yes, I was going to a convent. So we actually started.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  Oh, that's immediately would have been the bond, right?

• 20:35Speaker 02

  And then they came back in the door and they said, listen, get to wardrobe, kid, you're in the picture.

• 20:40Speaker 01

  Oh, my God!

• 20:41Speaker 02

  I know, which never happens. And I called my agent on the way. I said, I'm just going over to costume to get fitted because I've got the part. He went, no way you did it. It doesn't work like that. And it doesn't work like that.

• 20:50Speaker 01

  No!

• 20:51Speaker 02

  And so I, yeah, I got the role and I loved it. I loved every minute. It was, it was fantastic.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  How old were you at that point?

• 20:59Speaker 02

  I was just twenty.

• 21:02Speaker 01

  So was, was it extraordinary because it was American? Did it feel like, oh, my God, is this actually happening? Did you know how big it was?

• 21:11Speaker 02

  Well, I, I watched the first movie then straight away because I hadn't, I'd missed it. And it was quite a dark thriller, the first one. And I was sort of saying to my, my agent, my God, it's, we started Lethal Weapon two. And it's like, it's like a comedy, how they're shooting this. I was very,

• 21:33Speaker 02

  sort of a way, but yes, a little bit. And it was genius what they were doing.

• 21:38Speaker 01

  It's clever.

• 21:39Speaker 02

  It was, it was very, very clever. And that's why he gave it. The, the second one is, is not because I'm in it, but is one of the fan favorite.

• 21:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, again, it's iconic.

• 21:50Speaker 02

  It's iconic.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  I mean, it was so fun.

• 21:52Speaker 02

  And he was just becoming the, the biggest star in the world. And he would turn up for work, he'd drive himself in and

• 22:01Speaker 02

  just be, he just, he was so down to earth. And it was all men on the set. Even you're thinking costume or hair and makeup or your script editor. Someone's female, not one. I was the only woman on the set.

• 22:16Speaker 01

  Did you ever feel vulnerable?

• 22:17Speaker 02

  No, because Mel was so great to me. And he just, we, we used to play dirty word Scrabble all the time, which was, which is really great. And we got, we got on very well. He was very, very protective.

• 22:29Speaker 01

  And very boundaried.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  And very boundaried. But what was interesting because we had the scene in the trailer where we're, you know, having a fantastic, best week's work of my life. And I'd, I'd done that for nothing. We were so stuck, stuck on the soundstage in, in, in, in, in Los Angeles, in this very tight space caravan. And, you know, we're butt naked, the pair of us, but having fun. And, and obviously he's a married man, so it was, and I was married. I was married to Dan at the time.

• 22:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:59Speaker 02

  Dan Donovan. So we, it was a seven day shoot for that one little section, which you view nowadays, unless you're on a big budget movie, I suppose, you can spend that time. But we, we had a week, over a week to shoot it. And every day, it was a closed set, but every day in Video Village, two or three executives would come down and sit and watch what we, what we had to do. And I could see Mel getting more and more upset about this as the week went on. And I said, listen, look, I said, I don't care. You know, I'm, I'm just happy to be here.

• 23:33Speaker 01

  But that is amazing that you didn't.

• 23:36Speaker 02

  Well, I just, you know.

• 23:37Speaker 01

  You're twenty.

• 23:38Speaker 02

  I know.

• 23:38Speaker 01

  Wow!

• 23:39Speaker 02

  But, you know, child, child actor, they, they asked what I do, you know, I love scene. And they also wanted me to be dead naked in the bottom of the tank. And this could have lost me the job, but I said in the room when I first met Mel, I said, you know, I'm more than happy to do the love scene. I do wonder why I would need to be dead naked. I think that's a bit gratuitous. So I spoke up for myself and they said, yeah, you're right. Fine. Yeah.

• 24:06Speaker 01

  Amazing.

• 24:07Speaker 02

  Get to costume. But as the week went on, Mel was getting more and more frustrated. And I said, look, I'm nobody, so I can't, you know, sod them, they're out there, I don't care. Get over here. No, I didn't say that.

• 24:21Speaker 02

  But, and he, and I said, but you can truly, it makes you that unhappy. And he said, Patsy, I can't. And I said, he just said, I, you know, I can't. This is, you know, what I'm being paid to do. And I thought it was very humble. It was very sweet of him to show that because he's quite macho.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:41Speaker 02

  It was a very macho set and lots of directions, you know, man-oit, man-oit. Mel, you know, just, it was all very meat eating. You know, I can do worse things than you can. And, you know, boys together.

• 24:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:59Speaker 02

  So it becomes, it can become really funny or it can become really annoying. I saw it as very funny. Yeah. So he was very, very sweet and open with me. And then very worried because after my first weekend, it's the only job I've ever had where they rap, like at twelve on a Friday. And everyone, we were in L A, everyone just got in their cars and went off. And I was there sort of on my own, staying in the Mondial on Sunset Boulevard. And there was a car dealership over the road. So I thought, well, I'm gonna have to get a car. And they wouldn't hire me a car because I wasn't twenty one yet.

• 25:33Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 25:34Speaker 02

  So I went off for a walk down Melrose Avenue and I got pulled over by the police because no one walks there. And they were like, what are you up to? And I said, well, I'm just actually having a little walk because I can't hire a car. And I just want to get out and get some fresh air. And they said, well, you know, you know, be careful. And so Mel said to me, my mom, he said, what, you know, what do you do, Pats? And I said, well, I got, and you got arrested. And he said, what? And I said, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've got the quick, because I was walking down Melrose and going. He said, well, what, why weren't you driving? I said, because I can't, can't hire a car yet. And he went, show me your passport. And I said, I don't have it with me. I'll bring it tomorrow. And he, I think they actually thought that I was older. I was about twenty five.

• 26:19Speaker 02

  That Warner Brothers got me a car to drive myself immediately. But that was something that was interesting. And I, and I was, I was pretty lonely. And then I flew my mom out and she was there with me. And, you know, she got on really well with Mel. He was just great. I know that he'd run into stuff down the road, but I can't, I can only comment on what my experience was with him. And he was just wonderful.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  When you talk about your life, do you go, God, what a life? Or is it just, it was just your life?

• 26:53Speaker 02

  Just, it was just my life.

• 26:54Speaker 01

  Isn't that funny?

• 26:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  Because, you know, I've had quite a life.

• 26:58Speaker 02

  You had an incredible life.

• 27:00Speaker 01

  I'm listening to you and it's just blowing, it's blowing my mind. The idea that you'd gone to L A, you were twenty years old. They didn't know you were twenty. They thought you were older.

• 27:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:13Speaker 01

  And they were all like, how old?

• 27:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, how old are you? I think it was probably a moment of, are you a teenager? Are you a, I mean, so, yeah. So that was, that was how, that was all revealed. And there was no problem, of course, with it. But it was just, you know, I couldn't hire a car.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  We were, we were talking about you being fourteen years old and being in the wag club.

• 27:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:39Speaker 01

  And how mad it was back then that like, there was no, I was trying to explain to my kids the other day that like, nobody asked for an I D.

• 27:48Speaker 02

  No!

• 27:48Speaker 01

  Back then, like, we were never I D'd ever. If you were a girl, you were in.

• 27:52Speaker 02

  And you, you had somewhat of a decent outfit on.

• 27:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:56Speaker 02

  I mean, I went with school friends one Saturday and they would only let three of us in and not the other two. And of course, we're like, bye. And I remember walking up the steps into the wag club and then it being like Top of the Pops. It was just madness over here. Spandau Ballet, haircut one hundred. I'm just, and it was just fun and naughty and people, you know, would smog each other and have this, I don't know that, I feel actually for the, this generation because we had such freedom. It truly was glorious time. And the, you know, the eighties and the nineties were just, the nineties particularly, that we got away with a lot. You would never, you'd never be able to do that now.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  And I also think that there were, there were so many venues and clubs to go to. And there just aren't any spaces to congregate at anymore. I mean, I know I sound a bit sort of depressing and old, but I just feel like dancing and coming together in a nightclub, all of us.

• 28:59Speaker 02

  It was, it was magical.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  It was magical. And it was spiritual at times. Like, we would, it was euphoric.

• 29:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:06Speaker 01

  You know?

• 29:06Speaker 02

  It was.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  Now, Chris Sullivan used to run.

• 29:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, Chris, Chris and Ollie, Ollie was on the door.

• 29:16Speaker 01

  And I seem to remember the casting people, somebody from Absolute Beginners, I'm sure they came to the wag.

• 29:23Speaker 02

  They did.

• 29:24Speaker 01

  Because I went to be in it with Kim Sion.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  Oh, God, Kim's amazing.

• 29:29Speaker 01

  In the beatnik, uh, section, like the cafe beatnik thing in Absolute Beginners.

• 29:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:35Speaker 01

  Um, so that was quite funny. We all got shipped off in a coach.

• 29:38Speaker 02

  A coach? This is it. And then at lunchtime at the pub that they have, Shepperson Studios, I'm not sure whether they still have the pub. For lunchtime, going into the pub was like going into the wag club there because it was all these, I knew everyone. And it was, it was fantastic. And that was, again, a very, has become a, a real art house classic.

• 30:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:03Speaker 02

  Uh, the film now because it was, it did very well.

• 30:08Speaker 02

  At the box office, but it was just panned. It was panned critically. And then went to America. They should have opened it in the States first, I think. And it was that the year that they released it there, it was their top in the top 10 best films in the LA Times.

• 30:24Speaker 01

  Oh, it's so iconic.

• 30:25Speaker 02

  So iconic.

• 30:25Speaker 01

  I mean, David, David Bowie, like.

• 30:28Speaker 02

  I mean.

• 30:29Speaker 01

  What, what, what was he like?

• 30:30Speaker 02

  Well, what he did for all of us, I'm, I, I.

• 30:33Speaker 01

  Oh, I know.

• 30:34Speaker 02

  Changed my life.

• 30:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, me too.

• 30:35Speaker 02

  At fourteen, Hunky Door, that album was just on constant repeat. And I was just so stupid and 16 and, you know, hadn't had a real proper boyfriend yet. And, and I thought, oh, we're gonna meet and he's gonna fall in love with me and we're gonna just, you know, go off on his vesper together. And, and it was like a royal lineup on at work. So everyone was shaking his hand, meeting him. And I shook his hand and tried to make eye contact. And he was very sweet. He said, like, very nice to meet you. And he just moved on. And I was crushed. I just, oh, my God, that's it. And then a few months later, I was sitting in makeup. And the makeup artist had just, had just run to the toilet.

• 31:19Speaker 02

  And David walked past and the door was open. He sort of backed up and looked at me and he said, oh. And he came in and I was too in awe to say anything. And he just picked up this hairbrush and my hair was very long then and not grey like it is today. I've got fabulous roots.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  Patsy, can I just say something?

• 31:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  We hadn't noticed.

• 31:40Speaker 02

  Well.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  Just highlighted.

• 31:41Speaker 02

  There were. And I embrace these roots.

• 31:43Speaker 01

  Embrace it.

• 31:43Speaker 02

  Embracing them. That's, you know, I'm here happily embracing my roots. So David popped in and he picked up this hairbrush and sort of brushed my hair for what seemed, I mean, it was the most erotic experience of my life.

• 31:54Speaker 01

  David, David Bowie walked into the dressing room.

• 31:57Speaker 02

  The makeup room, the makeup room.

• 31:59Speaker 01

  Okay, makeup room.

• 31:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:00Speaker 01

  Picked up a hairbrush.

• 32:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, and brushed my hair.

• 32:02Speaker 01

  And stood there and brushed it out and talked to you?

• 32:04Speaker 02

  No, that did nothing. I know. It's just, it's still delicious.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  That is ridiculously sexy.

• 32:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  I, thank you. I think so. Some people have heard that story and think, oh, that's weird.

• 32:18Speaker 02

  No, no, no.

• 32:19Speaker 01

  That is, obviously, my husband is my hairstylist.

• 32:22Speaker 02

  Yes, of course.

• 32:23Speaker 01

  You know that intimacy.

• 32:24Speaker 02

  The head is an erogenous zone.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:26Speaker 02

  Like, it is, wow, that's, and such an intimate.

• 32:31Speaker 01

  Such an intimate moment.

• 32:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:34Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 32:35Speaker 02

  So that was, that was.

• 32:37Speaker 01

  Okay, well, you didn't skip off into the sunset.

• 32:40Speaker 02

  We didn't.

• 32:40Speaker 01

  But he brushed your hair.

• 32:42Speaker 02

  He brushed my hair. Come on.

• 32:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, come on.

• 32:45Speaker 02

  We were practically married. In that union, yeah.

• 32:49Speaker 01

  Quite funny, because you were starring in that movie with lots of people that.

• 32:53Speaker 02

  We knew, mates, yeah.

• 32:54Speaker 01

  Um, and were friends. And you said that you were actually married to your first husband at that point.

• 33:01Speaker 02

  Not yet, no, it was after.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  I was just gonna say, I didn't realise you were that married that early.

• 33:05Speaker 02

  No, because I hadn't, like I said, I hadn't really been in a big relationship.

• 33:09Speaker 01

  So you were 16 in that one?

• 33:11Speaker 02

  I was 16.

• 33:12Speaker 01

  But 20 when you married Dan.

• 33:14Speaker 02

  Uh, I was, I was, we were doing a film in Scarborough with Anthony Hopkins, a chorus of disapproval, Anthony Hopkins, and.

• 33:23Speaker 01

  I mean, my God, you've just worked with them all.

• 33:25Speaker 02

  Jeremy Irons, yeah, everyone.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  My God.

• 33:27Speaker 02

  And we were all in Scarborough. So this was after Absolute Beginners. So I was around 18 when they married Dan. I was around 18.

• 33:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, 18. I remember, I remember that.

• 33:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, he came up to Scarborough to visit and he asked me to marry him. And, and, you know, we did. Michael Winner, the director, like, completely balled me out about, you know, we're getting married, Patsy, and da, da, da, da. And I said, well, I'm gonna do it. He said, well, then happiness to you both. And I'm so happy and wonderful and, you know, muzzled off. And that was, that was Michael. He was just, I, I really liked him. Some people found him a acquired taste, but I thought he was great. And we had such a laugh in that film. Yeah, Dan and I got married in Scarborough.

• 34:10Speaker 01

  You got married in Scarborough?

• 34:12Speaker 02

  In Scarborough, yep.

• 34:13Speaker 01

  So, as you know, I've been trying out Monzo sponsors of this podcast. And because I've just been to a festival, whoop, whoop, I thought I'd tell you what it does abroad. Now, you know that thing where you used to have to call the bank before you flew, just to tell them that you were leaving the country? Not anymore. It's so good with Monzo. You just start paying when you get there. There are no fees and it works. And when you spend, you can see exactly what it costs straight away in pounds, which means less trying to work out exchange rates in your head and more getting on with the holiday. Oh, God.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  And if you lose your card, you can just tap to freeze it. And if you find it, two minutes later, under your beach towel all along, you just tap to unfreeze it. And when you're home, Monzo puts everything you spent on the trip together in one trip report. So download Monzo before your next trip and pay anywhere in any currency, fee-free. Mastercard's exchange rate applies. Monzo current accounts are for UK residents aged 16 plus. T's and C's apply. Right. Now, where is my passport? I need to put it away.

• 35:21Speaker 01

  This segment was sponsored by Garnier. Oh, my God. Oh, lady over there. Hi, what's your name?

• 35:29Speaker 02

  Shashana.

• 35:30Speaker 01

  Shashana. We've got a colleague at work, Emma, who wants to have her hair coloured. I'm trying to find somebody to come with me to come and colour her hair with some Garnier Nutris at work.

• 35:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, why not?

• 35:41Speaker 01

  Would you, would you really?

• 35:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Follow me, follow me. So this is the Begin Again studio. And this is Emma. Shashana seemed really confident. She has coloured her friends' hair and stuff before. We've got to put this one into here and shake to activate the colour. Shake it like a Polaroid picture.

• 36:01Speaker 01

  Already, the colour's lovely. The shade that we are doing on Emma is Mocha Brown, which is my shade. Mine. I own this. I don't. There are actually 35 shades to choose from. It's got fruit oils in it. They are what nourishes it. Emma, you're very lucky. You have no grey hairs. But Garnier Nutris, the permanent colour's got 100% grey coverage. I can vouch for that.

• 36:27Speaker 01

  That is it.

• 36:28Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 36:29Speaker 01

  Easier to do it yourself. Do you see what I mean? Was that easier than you thought?

• 36:33Speaker 02

  Very easy. Just like putting like hair oil in.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's like so easy.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  Time to go. Go, Emma. Oh, my God, it looks great. Oh, my God, I'm not being funny. You've done a great job.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  Look at that. Can we just discuss the shine?

• 36:51Speaker 02

  That's amazing. Are you pleased with it?

• 36:52Speaker 01

  Do you like it?

• 36:53Speaker 02

  Love, love, love, love, love.

• 36:55Speaker 01

  How confident are you now, out of 10?

• 36:57Speaker 02

  Oh, 10 out of 10. That was a lot simpler than I thought.

• 36:59Speaker 01

  I'm so pleased. We did a thing.

• 37:01Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 37:03Speaker 01

  For trusting us.

• 37:05Speaker 02

  You guys have done amazing.

• 37:06Speaker 01

  And thank you, Garnier Nutris. Love you.

• 37:14Speaker 04

  Whenever fall comes back around, it always feels like a fresh start. This year, I've been layering in some styles from the new Lululemon fall drop because the weather is shifting and I find I have to be ready for the entire day and not just one part of it. Lululemon's fall line has some really versatile transitional pieces, so I can just wake up, throw on a matching set, add a jacket or a fleece and head out, knowing that I'll feel comfortable enough to go wherever the day takes me. Check out the new fall arrivals in store and online now at lululemon.com.

• 37:44Speaker 01

  I mean, he, Dan was obviously famous for being in Big Audio Dynamite, which was such.

• 37:50Speaker 02

  Very cool.

• 37:51Speaker 01

  A cool band.

• 37:52Speaker 02

  They were.

• 37:52Speaker 01

  Um, Don, that's obviously.

• 37:54Speaker 02

  Don, I mean.

• 37:55Speaker 01

  I love Don so much.

• 37:57Speaker 02

  And Don is, looks to say.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 37:59Speaker 02

  He's just, he's not changed. And he's just fab. He's just fabulous.

• 38:04Speaker 01

  And obviously Mick from The Clash.

• 38:07Speaker 02

  Mick, Mick Jones?

• 38:09Speaker 01

  Mick Jones.

• 38:09Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 38:10Speaker 01

  Um, he was amazing.

• 38:11Speaker 02

  He was amazing.

• 38:12Speaker 01

  And totally iconic. I mean, Big Audio Dynamite was so cool.

• 38:16Speaker 02

  They were very cool. They were very cool. And, and then they, it sort of, you know, took me under their wing. And, and we'd always go around to Joe Strummer's house and he was, you know, again, I was in awe. I was such a huge Clash fan.

• 38:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, me too.

• 38:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, they were brilliant. But yeah, you were great. And Dan was so beautiful.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  But you and Dan.

• 38:35Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  You, you were a great couple.

• 38:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:37Speaker 01

  Um, I, I mean. Or from the outside.

• 38:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:40Speaker 01

  Um, what, what was that like? Cause it, it seemed very sweet and caring and loving. Was it a good relationship?

• 38:48Speaker 02

  It was a good relationship.

• 38:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:49Speaker 02

  And it sort of, it hit at a time when people were re- very heavily into going to raves and doing that stuff. And, you know, I wasn't. I'd kind of done all of that. I had to work. And so it just became sort of living very differently. Not, not suggesting he was doing anything inappropriate or what, but he was very into that, the scene and the music side of it. And we just, you know, I'd be, I'd be at home and he was meant to be on tour. And then I'd get people phoning me up on the Saturday going, oh, so Dan was in, I saw Dan last night. And I was like,

• 39:33Speaker 02

  why is he meant to be in Coventry doing, doing a show? What was he doing at your club? And so that kind of happened a few times. And I think that, and we were so young.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  You're so young.

• 39:44Speaker 02

  We were, but we were babies. We should, should have just lived together and, but.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  Why did, why did you think that marriage was important to you?

• 39:52Speaker 02

  Cause I, I, I was a hopeless romantic. And that's sort of been something that's carried through all my relationships. And, you know, I just seem to have married all my boyfriends. That's, that's really the, the truth. I mean, I've not, I wish I'd played the field and, you know, been

• 40:16Speaker 02

  taken advantage of, you know, my, my youth and, and the situations I found myself in. But I was just always chose to be married. I was never happier than being, being married to, to someone.

• 40:29Speaker 01

  There is a, there, I mean, it is different being married. There is, um, you know, I'm thinking about your mum and your dad.

• 40:36Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  And how, even though your dad was a complicated man and you really loved him.

• 40:43Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 40:44Speaker 01

  When you were a little girl.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  Before you went inside for, for a while. And your mum, you could see, you understood why what your mum saw in him.

• 40:53Speaker 02

  Yes, of course, yeah.

• 40:55Speaker 01

  So when they were together.

• 40:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  You know, my, maybe that kind of was a, an influence for you.

• 41:02Speaker 02

  Does, do, do you think so? Was, was it a good example of a marriage or? You know, I think I'd become, like I said, at fourteen, when he'd been away for seven years. And my brother and I were sworn to secrecy about this. So nobody on our street, we'd actually moved to um, the local council estate by that point. And it, those, you know, it was very, everyone knew everyone's business and quite, it was this sort of close, like Brookside Close a little bit.

• 41:33Speaker 01

  Everybody knew.

• 41:34Speaker 02

  Everybody knew everything. So my, my brother and I had to pretend for seven years that, oh yes, our dad's in South Africa. And that's what we had to maintain. And because my mum said, you can't, that's, this is what you say. You'd say this at school. They were like, so is your dad gonna come? He's in South Africa. It was just that. And then, now, oh, he's back from South Africa. So.

• 41:58Speaker 01

  It's just restrictive that for a kid, like to, to have to lie about something.

• 42:02Speaker 02

  To have secrets like that.

• 42:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's big.

• 42:04Speaker 02

  Very, they weigh very heavy on a, a young person's, um, soul. And like I said, I would do anything to protect my mum, to help her, to literally anything for her. And so I, I just felt like, and she was so beautiful. I, I looked like my dad. My, my, my mum was just this, you know, violet eyes and this beautiful skin and, you know, very, very Irish. Real Irish beauty. And, um, I, I always thought she could have had a much better life. I didn't, you know, but she did love him very deeply. And we'd be away on jobs and some of the other chaperones or the kids, whatever, we'd be carrying on with

• 42:48Speaker 02

  crew members and all this stuff. My mother was never like that. She really wasn't.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 42:53Speaker 02

  Um, and when he died and we went to the, the hospital to see the body and we walked in together and I just remember going, oh, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim. And sort of stroking his face and I really saw.

• 43:10Speaker 01

  Love.

• 43:10Speaker 02

  Love. Yeah. It was very sweet. It was very sweet, very sad.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  But it also, it also showed you that it was possible, you know, against all odds.

• 43:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  Was a very complicated relationship.

• 43:27Speaker 02

  It, it made me feel.

• 43:28Speaker 01

  I think there are so many couples.

• 43:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 43:30Speaker 01

  Who, um, get together, they're in love, and then they stay for their kids or whatever.

• 43:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:36Speaker 01

  They, they don't really love each other anymore. And the kids can feel it.

• 43:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course they can.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  But for you, your mum loved your dad till his dying breath.

• 43:46Speaker 02

  Yep. It's very rare. And I think it was also, it was a great example to me of

• 43:55Speaker 02

  a partnership and a patient woman. She was very patient. And it was good for me to see that.

• 44:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  That, that, that they really had, had something together. Very, very sad.

• 44:09Speaker 01

  With, you split up from Dan.

• 44:11Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 44:12Speaker 01

  And you find another musician.

• 44:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:15Speaker 01

  The legendary Jim Kurt.

• 44:17Speaker 02

  And such a legend. We met when, you know, Dan and I would, had, had stood up long before this. Uh, I was doing a film with Terence Stamp in Madrid and.

• 44:28Speaker 01

  Talk about Terence Stamp. God rest his soul.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  Rest his soul.

• 44:31Speaker 01

  Can I just say, what, like, I just wanna know, what was he like?

• 44:35Speaker 02

  Amazing.

• 44:35Speaker 01

  Was he?

• 44:36Speaker 02

  He was amazing. We had a little like for each other.

• 44:40Speaker 01

  So hot.

• 44:41Speaker 02

  So beautiful and classy. So classy. And he, I used to, like, really shock him because I'd come on to set with my trainers on and not my high heels and with the, and, you know, he used to call me monkey because I was born in the year of the monkey, he said. And he said, monkey, you can't, you, you'd come in your full costume. And he was just, every moment of Terence's life was a great picture, a great, and he's a great storyteller. His books, I don't know if you've read any of them, have just, oh my god.

• 45:14Speaker 01

  Tell me about his books.

• 45:15Speaker 02

  Stamp collection. And, and it's just unbelievable. The, I loved the, particularly the one, the book that really focused on the sixties and Julie Christie and all of those wonderful golden era.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:29Speaker 02

  Um, actors. But he was so sweet because my mum was with me, of course, again. And she was telling him, because Terence was way ahead of his time about health and what he ate.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 45:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was, he was utterly brilliant. And I've fa- found out after I found these letters after we finished the movie, he continued to write to my mum. And would say, you know, this is what, you know, you should, you should try this and you should try that. And he did that.

• 46:02Speaker 01

  Just as a caring act.

• 46:04Speaker 02

  Just as a caring act. And he, he wrote beautiful letters. I mean, it was just, you know, handwritten with that lovely, just flowing, beautiful words that coming out of, of, of the page at you. And.

• 46:18Speaker 01

  He wrote to your mum?

• 46:19Speaker 02

  He wrote to my mum.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  How?

• 46:21Speaker 02

  I know. But she was, you see, my mum was very special.

• 46:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:25Speaker 02

  All, all, all mums are special, you know. You only get one mum. But she just really did.

• 46:31Speaker 01

  She had a thing.

• 46:32Speaker 02

  She had something.

• 46:32Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 46:33Speaker 02

  And so, but Terence and I, you know, had a little flirtation. And that was wonderful. And then just come to the end of that, that film and we're shooting in the Palace Hotel in Madrid, which is so beautiful. And we're shooting in the corridor and they're trying to get the shot. And all we can hear is this very angry Scottish voice down the corridor going, I need to get the work. I can't, I've got, I can't, I need to get, excuse me.

• 47:00Speaker 01

  And you guys are in the way.

• 47:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're in the way. Um, and so they were like, okay, hold the roll. And this person came walking down the corridor in very tight trousers.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  The way that that is like the thing you notice.

• 47:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, very tight trousers and sort of walking down and quite brightly because film when you're filming, you do tend to expect the world to stop for everyone else as well. And you know, you have to be accommodating. So they let him through and all of a sudden he wasn't very busy and you went, oh, hello.

• 47:34Speaker 02

  Sort of standing and Terence sort of I think saw the kind of rolled his eyes and walked off. And so we had a little chat and then he suddenly he, you know, he wasn't busy and then suddenly he did have to go. And I thought that was always a nice man. And then at the end of the day, the second A D came to me and they said, oh, Jim Cullen left you this mess, this note. And so he wrote this note to me saying, just so nice to meet you, you know, every this and that. And listen, if you ever, if you ever come to Scotland, let me show you the mountains.

• 48:12Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 48:16Speaker 02

  And it was just, he was just so sweet. We had a lovely time together and he's a good guy.

• 48:23Speaker 01

  Is that what's making you emotional?

• 48:26Speaker 02

  Well, just things like, like that. I'm sentimental. And because of everything, you know, your kids growing up and moving on or going through all of that stuff and having to be, whenever they call so strong and, and because that's all they don't wanna, like, cause I know from experience, having a, you know, a mother that I had to worry about all the time was, it has had a massive effect on me.

• 48:51Speaker 01

  You don't want to be a trouble to your kids because you've had to experience that with your mum.

• 48:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. And so what Jim did, because he, he loved my mum as well. I mean, he was like, straight away, oh, we need to get Margie on the payroll. And I was already sort of supporting her and making a very good living at the time. But he, he was just so, so sweet. And then two days before she died, I was in denial. I thought she's gonna come through it. I kept saying to him.

• 49:26Speaker 01

  Well, she's done it so many times, hasn't she?

• 49:28Speaker 02

  And he's, he said, no, I wanna go and see your mum now. I said, well, no, I'm not going tonight to see her because I go every morning. And I had, she was so thin and tiny and she was on this ward and I used to call it the last post. Cause every time you got there, a bed was empty. She wouldn't eat. So I got a chef from Leeds to do like tiny little fish pies for her and just, just mouth.

• 49:52Speaker 01

  Something that she could.

• 49:54Speaker 02

  She could sort of, and she couldn't even eat that. But anyway, I said, well, I'm, I'm going on the way to work. So I would get up at four, the car would pick me up, take me, take me via the hospital, which was on Mortimer Street. It's not there anymore, that big, the big Victorian kind of, it's quite creepy, that hospital. And I'd go and see my mum then, go to film all day and then go and see her on the way back home. And Jim was just adamant. He said, I wanna go and see her now.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  Did he have a feeling, do you think?

• 50:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, one hundred percent. And he, he went and he's like, you know, I think, he promised my mum a lot of things,

• 50:38Speaker 02

  which, you know, he tried to, his, his best to do that. I mean, I think I was in such deep depression for so many years for him to have handled it. But then two days later, I'd gone in to see her on the way to, to work and she was bringing up blood and it was just, it was so hard to look at. And I said, I'm gonna be back on the way, my way home. And I went to, to work and I was in makeup and I got a call and they just said, she's gone. And I just screamed, no, no, no, no, no. And we were filming in St Paul's, all around that area. It was a wartime period drama.

• 51:18Speaker 02

  I can't remember the name of it. But James Fox, who I'd worked with on Absolute Beginners, I was playing his, I played his wife on that and I was playing his niece on this show. And we always used to say, well, I'm gonna be your mother eventually. We've had every kind of relationship, if possible, on screen. And anyway, James took me out and there's a beautiful blue sky. And he just sat with me. Of course, they said, well, Patsy, look, we can, can release you, but we've only got this location for, you know, it's costing so much. If we could just shoot out, we'll bring the scenes together and if you need to shoot them out. And of course, I said, yeah, I could, I completely understand.

• 51:57Speaker 02

  And so I just was sitting in this sort of courtyard, looking up at the sky and he came and he just sat next to me. And then until I left the production that day, he didn't leave my side. And he didn't say anything. There were no words. And that was probably one of the most intimate moments I've had with a, a human being. You know, he just was by my side. And then I went straight to the hospital and I remember, I remember walking out of the hospital onto Mortimer Street and all these people are like pushing you to get by. And, and I, I was like, everything was in slow motion.

• 52:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 52:38Speaker 02

  And I was just thinking, you have no idea. Just up at that window, there are people that are just going by the hour and you're out here, you know, living and looking miserable or all of that stuff. And that's something that I just thought, you have no idea. You have no idea.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  When I came out of hospital and got onto the tube for the first time and everybody looked unhappy.

• 53:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:08Speaker 01

  Or in their own worlds. And they've all got shit going on, right?

• 53:12Speaker 02

  We all have shit going.

• 53:13Speaker 01

  But I wanted to keep going.

• 53:15Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 53:15Speaker 01

  You're alive, you're alive, you're alive.

• 53:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:18Speaker 01

  So I understand exactly what you're saying.

• 53:20Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  It's, it's so strange when you've been around a death, somebody leaving this earth forever.

• 53:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:27Speaker 01

  And then you go and see him.

• 53:28Speaker 02

  And it's just, no, can't comprehend. I mean, you know, with, in a few months, I probably was back to

• 53:36Speaker 02

  not, not being in that, yeah, normal life and not being in that space of being, having it being so insightful. But I do feel that karmically, this is, I, I believe in reincarnation. I really do. And but I think that, I don't think there's much more I could cram in. I, I, you know, I hope that I, I've lived a really full life and I'm, I've had so many blessings. I mean, I'm sitting here, you know, obviously still grieving terribly over, over things. And people probably think, oh, just get over yourself. And but it's just.

• 54:14Speaker 01

  Anybody will be thinking that. Well, I think people, most people are kind.

• 54:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:20Speaker 01

  And they'll get it.

• 54:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, you know, you, I think if you're a good person, then good things can happen for you. And I've, I've seen that. I mean, I've manifested a life that was never on the cards for me. I mean, that was, you know, my, I, I, my aspirations were working on the Pick a Mix in Wards. They really were. It was my favorite place to go as a child. And yeah, I loved it. But it's been great. It's been great. And I've loved and I've lived and I've had the blessing of having two wonderful children. And they drive me nuts. I mean, I won't lie.

• 55:06Speaker 01

  Their job.

• 55:06Speaker 02

  It's their job.

• 55:07Speaker 01

  It's their job.

• 55:08Speaker 02

  And they're men now, you know, they've got their own lives and.

• 55:10Speaker 01

  How old are they now? Just thirty three?

• 55:12Speaker 02

  Kind of crazy that, right?

• 55:14Speaker 01

  Twenty six.

• 55:15Speaker 02

  And I mean, I, you know, I had Lennon, I had James very, very young and I was late thirty.

• 55:20Speaker 01

  How old were you when you had?

• 55:22Speaker 02

  James, I was like twenty.

• 55:25Speaker 01

  Cause it's incredible that, isn't it?

• 55:27Speaker 02

  It's very, yes. And I was, I was blessed with this angel, but I was kind of screwed because none of my friends, I'd had children. So I'd be, you know, going to the swing park, you know, me and, me and the baby and sort of, he could sort of barely lift his head at the time. And I was, I was doing all of, all of that stuff on my own. And the sleep deprivation and all that stuff. But again, I wish I enjoyed those when they were teeny tiny babies moments, because I was always so scared that I'd hurt them or that they would get ill or they would, or all of this sort of panic.

• 56:08Speaker 02

  I wish I, I wish I hadn't considered that then because it's such a precious time and it goes so fast.

• 56:15Speaker 01

  Now that you look back and you've had that diagnosis of P T S D about the fear of losing your mum.

• 56:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 56:22Speaker 01

  For years and years and years, nonstop.

• 56:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  Do you think that played a part in the fear around becoming a mother?

• 56:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:33Speaker 01

  Like you were so scared of losing your mum and then you've got a little baby to look after. It's like, you know, I know what happens.

• 56:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:41Speaker 01

  When you really love something.

• 56:42Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly.

• 56:44Speaker 01

  What's gonna, that must have been so difficult.

• 56:46Speaker 02

  It was difficult. And because that first year of James's life, she was really in hospital all the time. And, and I'd take the baby along with me and she'd write, don't bring the baby in here with the germs and this and, and I'm like, no, mommy wants to see his grand, you know, and she told to hold him and she loved him so much. And that to me is something that I'm sad for my kids that they didn't have the experience of her as a grandmother. Because she was the most awesome mum. And I, I compare myself regularly to, to her and think, well, I could have hidden that a bit better from the kids maybe. Or she was a lot to live up to, a lot, a lot to live up to.

• 57:28Speaker 01

  But your boys now?

• 57:30Speaker 02

  Well, they're living their best lives.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  Right. Can I say, can I just say that?

• 57:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:34Speaker 01

  Do you know what's enabled them to do that?

• 57:37Speaker 02

  I don't, I'll cry.

• 57:39Speaker 01

  You.

• 57:42Speaker 02

  I've been a positive force for them. You know, and I essentially was a single mum.

• 57:50Speaker 01

  That's what you did.

• 57:52Speaker 02

  But, you know, the boys have great relationships with it. That's really important. I know that because that's an important relationship.

• 58:00Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 58:00Speaker 02

  The the the the father being, you know, and encouraging that because a lot of women get very sort of angry and stuff. And certainly while the kids were growing up, it was always my my intention to do it. You know, gonna have a great time. And they all did. They loved going to to be with their dads. And that was also something that filled me with joy because if they're if they're happy to go and they're not saying we don't want to leave you, that's means that they've got confidence and that they also have great relationships with their fathers. And that's something that I'm I'm I've encouraged.

• 58:36Speaker 01

  And you should be proud of, you know, because like you said, that isn't always the case. And you've done a brilliant thing.

• 58:41Speaker 02

  No, thank you. Well done. Thank you.

• 58:44Speaker 01

  You met, am I right in saying you met Liam on a plane?

• 58:48Speaker 02

  Yes, I'm going up to Glasgow, funnily enough.

• 58:52Speaker 01

  So what like, what was it like?

• 58:55Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. It was such a long time ago. But I remember I was I had these little round glasses that I was wearing all the time, like John Lennon glasses.

• 59:06Speaker 01

  I sort of remember that era.

• 59:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. So I think the first thing you said to me were top top bins. And and I'm so glad I was really tempted to give them to him. And I thought, no, I'm not gonna got these in New York. And I actually really quite like them. And then as the years went on, you know, he'd always come home with a new pair of sunglasses on that someone had given him. And I'm just I was so pleased I had.

• 59:30Speaker 01

  You weren't that girl.

• 59:31Speaker 02

  I wasn't that girl. So, but yeah, that was it. And then we just kept running into each other. It was something that that happened. And then it was, you know, it was quite sweet. It wasn't a sleazy coming together. Jim and I were leading separate lives. Do I, you know, do I regret that? Yeah, I look back now. But then I wouldn't have had my youngest son. And that's the blessing that came out of you, you know, because it was, you know, there were some very tough times in in in that marriage.

• 1:00:02Speaker 01

  Hmm. I mean, I think also there was something about your relationship representing an era of British history where that's an enormous kind of pressure to put on. So it's hard enough having a relationship anyway. Um, both being famous is like extra hard.

• 1:00:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:29Speaker 01

  But then representing an entire era and having to be a certain way.

• 1:00:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  You know, you thought you had something to maintain.

• 1:00:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:40Speaker 01

  For us, we needed you to do that. It was such a weird, like, it's like weird. It's too much.

• 1:00:47Speaker 02

  I think what I forgot in that time was how much I'd done before it.

• 1:00:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:54Speaker 02

  And that was, and I I lost that for a little bit.

• 1:00:58Speaker 01

  And what what do you mean by that?

• 1:00:59Speaker 02

  Well, because that relationship became so big.

• 1:01:04Speaker 01

  So big, yes.

• 1:01:05Speaker 02

  And it was bigger than me.

• 1:01:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:01:07Speaker 02

  And therefore it the pressure was huge. And so, yeah, of course, the Vanity Fair cover and all of that stuff is very, people love it. It was a very iconic time. I lost part of who I was going into that relationship, somehow lost her.

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:33Speaker 02

  Um, I remember Noel, who is lovely and divine, and I but always tend to bump into him. And he's just always been lovely to me over the years. And I remember him taking me to one side and said, he said, why aren't you, why aren't you working? Why aren't you, you know? Because I was always off doing films and going to the States and stuff. And I remember saying, because I'm too afraid to leave him on his own. And he was like, yeah, you should, yeah, you should, you should be doing more. And then, you know, it it ran its course. So but it was, there were some fantastic times. I mean,

• 1:02:11Speaker 01

  Go on, tell me.

• 1:02:12Speaker 02

  We had now, just we had, you know, we were very irresponsible. And it was just, it, you know, it was I always say I had some very late nights in the nineties. And yeah, exactly. You can relate. So that was, that was something that was going on. And then then that's something that I stepped out of very quickly because I was, I don't know, I was having a baby.

• 1:02:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:02:36Speaker 02

  Um, my, you know, my lifestyle had to change dramatically. And it did.

• 1:02:40Speaker 01

  Did you put yourself into treatment?

• 1:02:42Speaker 02

  I I went to meetings.

• 1:02:45Speaker 01

  Meetings.

• 1:02:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:46Speaker 01

  I did the same thing.

• 1:02:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I came off the off the the street into a meeting. And it was actually Pete Townsend, who I phoned because I was, my life was becoming unmanageable.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:02:58Speaker 02

  And he said, listen, I'm gonna hook you up with somebody. And just go to a meeting. He said, just go go and listen, whatever. And I went along with Fiona Golfer. Her name is, do you know Fiona?

• 1:03:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, really well.

• 1:03:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:11Speaker 01

  I saw her the other day.

• 1:03:13Speaker 02

  She's amazing. Well, she took me to my first meeting. And she was fantastic. And it was fantastic. And I saw so many people that I knew.

• 1:03:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:03:20Speaker 02

  Oh, they.

• 1:03:21Speaker 01

  In the rooms.

• 1:03:21Speaker 02

  Oh, you've been here.

• 1:03:23Speaker 01

  Here.

• 1:03:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's where you've been. Excuse me. It really helped me.

• 1:03:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:28Speaker 02

  I don't go, I don't go to meetings. I mean, I someone that would say, no, I've never touched drugs at all. I like a drink, but I can't have one because the depression that I get the the next day is just not worth it. So even it, I don't know, I think I'm allergic. It's poison to me. And some people can enjoy a drink and and and put a lot of pressure on you sometimes, you know, well, have one, have one. And I just.

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  Fascinating that, isn't it?

• 1:04:01Speaker 02

  This, no.

• 1:04:02Speaker 01

  People don't like people that don't drink. It's so funny.

• 1:04:06Speaker 02

  And so, you know, I'm not gonna sit here and say, I haven't over the past few years had a drink only to very quickly realise why I stopped completely. So that was a blessing.

• 1:04:19Speaker 01

  How have you managed your depression? Because obviously the PTSD is, was it, was it in a weird way quite a relief to get that diagnosis? Because it explained everything.

• 1:04:33Speaker 02

  It was glorious.

• 1:04:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:34Speaker 02

  Because, so funny, because it's like, finally, because I was thinking, you know, God, am I bipolar? And I've been, you know, am I ADHD? D. And I've had therapy over over the years. And that therapy helps. I'm not currently doing it. But it was, it was fantastic to know that. And and the things that I attributed to my sadness being around failing, creating the family and and sticking in it. It wasn't about those relationships. It was about stuff that happened when I was four years old.

• 1:05:15Speaker 02

  I was never like abused, physically in danger at work or around people. I was never nothing inappropriate ever happened. But what my my brain was doing, and like I said, I used to keep saying this thing, I'm I'm having a bad thought. So I was trying to get it out. Then I had a deep understanding, I think, of the the pain.

• 1:05:37Speaker 01

  Catastrophizing.

• 1:05:38Speaker 02

  Catastrophizing, exactly.

• 1:05:41Speaker 01

  Poor you.

• 1:05:42Speaker 02

  No, but you know what? It's been great. It's it's been great. And I wouldn't, I wouldn't want it any other way. And like I said, you know, I I do feel tired. I do.

• 1:05:56Speaker 01

  Me too, though.

• 1:05:58Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:05:58Speaker 01

  It's it's been a lot, right? Like, it's a big life.

• 1:06:02Speaker 02

  Fifty two years.

• 1:06:03Speaker 01

  That's a big life.

• 1:06:04Speaker 02

  It's a big life. But it's, I don't know if it's relatable to anyone, but I, you know, had my pensions and everything. And I was very vigilant about all of that. And then I entered into a corporate thing. And I lost, this is ten years ago, I lost everything. Lost my home. I lost just everything. And and so I'm having to start from scratch. I haven't been, I mean, this these past ten years, I've sort of.

• 1:06:29Speaker 01

  I didn't have that.

• 1:06:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, it has been written about. It was, it was hard. But I'm a survivor.

• 1:06:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, you are.

• 1:06:37Speaker 02

  Always have been.

• 1:06:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, you are.

• 1:06:39Speaker 02

  And you just take each day at a time. And I do that with regards to my work and the mammoth amount of scripts that I'm learning. I don't, I try to just keep it in the day. Tomorrow, who knows? Something brilliant that was, I I remember after my first meeting that I ever spoke at, and you know, you say, hello, my name is, and I am.

• 1:07:03Speaker 02

  And I I called Fiona after that meeting. I went, I can't believe I was so open with people and and to sort of give myself a label and all these crazy thoughts going on.

• 1:07:15Speaker 01

  As a famous person, that's frightening, right?

• 1:07:17Speaker 02

  She's, she went, it's no big deal.

• 1:07:20Speaker 01

  Get over yourself.

• 1:07:20Speaker 02

  It's like, you you can say, I'm, I'm, she said, I'm, I, me, I'm a banana today. You're you're gonna be an orange tomorrow. She said, just let it go. And that that was freeing because it was years of trying to keep have privacy and just having none. And.

• 1:07:39Speaker 01

  Well, and also, I I've got to say, I've never seen the fact that you went to an anonymous fellowship in the press anywhere.

• 1:07:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:46Speaker 01

  No one sold a story on me.

• 1:07:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  Well, I don't know if they have on you.

• 1:07:50Speaker 02

  No, that it's been mentioned.

• 1:07:52Speaker 01

  Mentioned that that. Because my mum sold a bloody story on me going to a meeting. Can't believe it. Out of like, I've been going to meetings for decades.

• 1:08:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:01Speaker 01

  No one said anything, but my mum did.

• 1:08:05Speaker 02

  Thanks a lot.

• 1:08:06Speaker 01

  Thanks mum.

• 1:08:08Speaker 01

  It's a great place. It's a safe place.

• 1:08:10Speaker 02

  It is.

• 1:08:11Speaker 01

  There is one other thing I would like to talk about.

• 1:08:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:08:14Speaker 01

  If it's okay.

• 1:08:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:14Speaker 01

  And that is you had a hysterectomy.

• 1:08:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  And that is quite a profound operation for a woman to have.

• 1:08:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:25Speaker 01

  What what happened there?

• 1:08:26Speaker 02

  So I was in my forties. I kept getting these um cysts in my stomach. They remove one and then within a week, two had grown back.

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  God, oh, within a week, Jesus.

• 1:08:41Speaker 02

  And I knew I was in trouble and I got a call. I'd been to see the gynaecologist, my gynaecologist again. And he was like, get to this address in Wimpole Street at five forty five tomorrow morning. We're fitting you in to see this specialist ultrasound person. And I knew that

• 1:09:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:09:02Speaker 02

  this isn't good. And I would get this, my belly would get so distended. By the end of the day, it was like I was pregnant. I mean, it was just this this huge sort of, you know, hard belly. So I went to this this particular clinic and as I walked in, it was just seven or eight women that, you know, scars on their heads. They weren't, you know, and that kind of they had their skin had that a glow about, you know, when people are having

• 1:09:35Speaker 01

  chemotherapy.

• 1:09:35Speaker 02

  Hemo. They're just like beautiful birds to me, you know, and I I had, I went in and had the ultrasound and they're like, oh, I'm sorry, but you're gonna have to have a hysterectomy like yesterday. So I was rushed into hospital and nothing was discussed past the that operation and getting rid of of my womb. No one said to me, you're gonna wake up and you are gonna be in full blown menopause. You're you're gonna, yeah, you're gonna have fog brain. People are gonna think that you have, you're suffering from some sort of mental illness.

• 1:10:17Speaker 01

  Meningitis of some sort.

• 1:10:19Speaker 02

  I mean, terrible, terrible things.

• 1:10:21Speaker 01

  And you lose yourself overnight, really, don't you?

• 1:10:23Speaker 02

  Well, my my best friend, Ange, who has been for over thirty odd years, I I came out and I called her. And I was walking down Wimpole Street and it was just like when I walked away from my mum at the hospital. Everything was in slow motion and I remember her saying to me, oh, my God, you know, you've lived the life you lived and just in in one moment, you're being told something like this and I'm sure that you can relate. I mean, I I was fortunate, I I it wasn't cancer. The tumors were wild. They just showed me you've picked a massive and there were like teeth in little pockets and hair and

• 1:11:08Speaker 02

  all kinds of weird stuff.

• 1:11:09Speaker 01

  How?

• 1:11:10Speaker 02

  Strange.

• 1:11:12Speaker 01

  Mad is that?

• 1:11:13Speaker 02

  Totally mad.

• 1:11:14Speaker 01

  But I'm interested to know when you were told, you know, your diagnosis, did did it hit you like? I I'd been in it for a while.

• 1:11:23Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:11:24Speaker 01

  But I had noticed, first of all, that I just didn't feel like me anymore.

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:31Speaker 01

  I I wasn't laughing.

• 1:11:33Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:11:33Speaker 01

  I was kind of flatlining

• 1:11:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:36Speaker 01

  through life.

• 1:11:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:37Speaker 01

  And I thought, oh, is it because my life is so busy?

• 1:11:39Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:11:40Speaker 01

  Like, yeah, could have been same as you. Is it because I've got like kids and a job and the pressure and the responsibility and so much weight and my inbox is full?

• 1:11:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:51Speaker 01

  But it feels like more than that. I can't, I've always been pick yourself up, dust yourself off.

• 1:11:56Speaker 02

  Me too.

• 1:11:56Speaker 01

  You know, recalibrate, get going, make the call.

• 1:11:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:59Speaker 01

  I just couldn't do that anymore. And I just thought, I can't remember people's names. Like, I'm doing a live TV show.

• 1:12:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:07Speaker 01

  I've forgotten what you're called. I said your name two minutes ago.

• 1:12:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:12Speaker 01

  We're live, like, I I'm not gonna be able to work.

• 1:12:14Speaker 02

  No, because that's the thing. I I would just, the the brain fog.

• 1:12:19Speaker 01

  Hmm. Did anybody tell you surgically, like?

• 1:12:24Speaker 02

  No, that we've got it out, that your womb's gone.

• 1:12:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:27Speaker 02

  And

• 1:12:27Speaker 01

  You're safe.

• 1:12:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, on you go. And then just to be in in the crazy world of of menopause.

• 1:12:35Speaker 01

  So how did you find out what it was?

• 1:12:37Speaker 02

  Um, the what the these?

• 1:12:39Speaker 01

  No, menopause.

• 1:12:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's how I found out.

• 1:12:42Speaker 01

  But how did you, like, who told you? Did you go to a doctor?

• 1:12:45Speaker 02

  I just knew, yes, they they

• 1:12:47Speaker 01

  Because I didn't even know what perimenopause was. I didn't even know it was a thing.

• 1:12:51Speaker 02

  It sounds like some sort of sports shirt.

• 1:12:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:12:54Speaker 02

  It just doesn't sound like a

• 1:12:56Speaker 01

  Or a new source at

• 1:12:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, at the, it's who.

• 1:13:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 1:13:02Speaker 02

  But they said to me, go and see this hormone guy. And I did and they would do, I was on a kind of, you know, I'm on the estrogen two pumps today. That's what I'm allowed now. But they put me on all kinds of different, different things to try and get the balance right. And so I was like, ooh, ooh, and then having to do TV stuff and just being, and as the red light's going on, forget, thinking, I don't know why I'm here. I don't know where I don't know what I'm, I don't, and it was just that bad. And no, no one knew and accused me of being on something and

• 1:13:38Speaker 01

  Oh, God, that's awful. I didn't know that.

• 1:13:42Speaker 02

  Oh, yes, and it wouldn't happen today.

• 1:13:45Speaker 01

  No, it wouldn't. Oh, Patsy, that must have felt horrible.

• 1:13:49Speaker 02

  It was devastating, devastating. And I've always been so professional to my, actually to to a fault. Because last, yeah, I broke my shoulder last year in three places.

• 1:14:01Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:14:01Speaker 02

  Um, it was just like cat food in there and

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:14:04Speaker 02

  I fell off a treadmill in the gym and it's, oh, I can't raise it right. I mean, I'm doing physical therapy, but so, but I was meant to do this podcast and I was on all sorts of

• 1:14:17Speaker 01

  Painkillers.

• 1:14:17Speaker 02

  Painkillers.

• 1:14:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:18Speaker 02

  And I didn't want to cancel and did it and shouldn't have done it.

• 1:14:23Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:14:23Speaker 02

  And my speech was very slurred. I'm very, I'm very aware.

• 1:14:28Speaker 01

  You know, I know how um prestigious you are and how you would never want to do that, but you would never want to let anyone down.

• 1:14:34Speaker 02

  But I didn't want to let anyone down because I'm because I'm a professional. And then to be accused of that was just like

• 1:14:43Speaker 01

  Heartbreaking.

• 1:14:43Speaker 02

  Heartbreaking. And this is, this is like, you know, a year ago. And then, you know, and then, you know, having to explain, listen, I'm actually, you know, this is awful what's going on. They can't operate, it's got a heel. I'm trying to work out, you know, the the least strength of poison I can put in myself to help the pain.

• 1:15:07Speaker 01

  Yes, because obviously when you've been

• 1:15:09Speaker 02

  Exactly, been around that.

• 1:15:10Speaker 01

  You don't want to take painkillers and

• 1:15:13Speaker 02

  You don't. And so it was

• 1:15:15Speaker 01

  Oh, Patsy.

• 1:15:16Speaker 02

  But it was just like it's a knock at my professionalism and my work. And I I used to do so many voiceovers and, you know, those, you know, just those jobs aren't coming in anymore. And so it does affect your career and and that's rubbish.

• 1:15:34Speaker 01

  Well, I think what's good about us doing this today is it's a chance to set the record straight.

• 1:15:40Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly.

• 1:15:41Speaker 01

  And get your side of the story out there and

• 1:15:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:45Speaker 01

  give everybody a flavour of who you really are.

• 1:15:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:48Speaker 01

  And you've done that in a brilliant way.

• 1:15:50Speaker 02

  I hope so.

• 1:15:51Speaker 01

  You've blown us away. You're, you are an icon.

• 1:15:56Speaker 02

  Oh, I don't know.

• 1:15:56Speaker 01

  And yeah, you are. I'm sorry, but you're just gonna have to take that.

• 1:16:00Speaker 02

  I'm taking it.

• 1:16:01Speaker 01

  Um, but thank you for being part of our, the fabric of our lives. And also thank you for being so iconic and being such a huge part of my life. I'm so pleased we're back together.

• 1:16:15Speaker 02

  Well, this is, this is my point and obviously, because I I can talk to you about anything.

• 1:16:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:20Speaker 02

  And which is the gift that you you give to people and you always have.

• 1:16:25Speaker 01

  We're gonna have that for the rest of our lives.

• 1:16:26Speaker 02

  We are.

• 1:16:26Speaker 01

  You about it.

• 1:16:27Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:16:28Speaker 01

  And that's

• 1:16:29Speaker 02

  But what I wanted, leaving this, I mean, it's been, this has been the best therapy that I've I've had ever. And but I I am a happy person.

• 1:16:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:16:39Speaker 02

  And I know that that, you know, the moments in my life that make me emotional, it's I I own every every moment and I'm, I'm, like I said, I'm a survivor. And everything's been thrown at me and I still I I still find thanks every morning I get up, you know, I say thank you.

• 1:16:58Speaker 01

  Gratitude.

• 1:16:59Speaker 02

  Gratitude, gratitude, gratitude. When something awful happens, I say thank you, that's a lesson, that's, and so you, when you have those kind of tools and you're on top of it, you can lead a very happy life. So, but

• 1:17:13Speaker 01

  But that's why, as an interview

• 1:17:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:16Speaker 01

  this begin again was very special.

• 1:17:18Speaker 02

  Yes, very special.

• 1:17:19Speaker 01

  Because you have been through the wringer

• 1:17:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:17:22Speaker 01

  and come out a very wise and brilliant woman. And thank you for sharing that with us.

• 1:17:28Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me.

• 1:17:29Speaker 01

  And your boys are very lucky. You're a brilliant mum. So, thank you, Patsy Kensit, everyone. You are a fucking legend. So just in case you missed this episode here, um, if you love this episode, I know you're gonna love that.