Pod Insights Begin Again with Davina McCall Begin Again Moments: Life After Loss With Richard E. Grant and Prue Leith About this episode Richard E. Grant and Prue Leith share their stories of life after losing the loves of their lives in this weeks Begin Again moments.
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0:30 Speaker 01 Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.
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1:14 Speaker 03 In exactly the same way that I started keeping a diary when I was 10 and have continued to do so, I then, I now write to Joan every night. And I have no, you know, woolly spiritual delusion that she's hearing this or that I'm going to get a response. But I know in writing to her, it somehow makes... it keeps the connection going. Because I know what her response would be.
1:42 Speaker 04 Do you write "Dear Joan"?
1:43 Speaker 03 Yeah. So I write emails to her. I mean, I write in email form, in a diary, but, you know, "Dear Joan," and "Today, this happened. This would really have amused you. I think we should do this," or... So it's, it's somehow, it makes it feel like that person is still there. It's an ongoing conversation.
2:02 Speaker 04 Sorry, I interrupted.
2:03 Speaker 03 No, don't.
2:04 Speaker 04 Do you not feel that she's still there?
2:07 Speaker 03 No.
2:08 Speaker 04 She's gone?
2:08 Speaker 03 Yeah. I mean, she's she's inside me and in my daughter and in the memory of our friends. And I've got photographs of her around the house, but I don't. My father was unequivocal about saying that heaven and hell are human concepts. And everything is the here and now. We only have one life, nobody's come back. And I haven't been able to find a better theory than that. So I take great comfort from the fact that it is. Her life has been completed in the same way that all the other people that I know and have never come back. So I have no.
2:49 Speaker 03 I'd like to have had faith that somehow when you die, I'm going to see all the pets and the people that I've loved. Are in some other space, but I don't. I don't have any delusion that that is going to take place, and I find that reassuring.
3:04 Speaker 04 So are you reassured now about the end of your of your life?
3:11 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah. And she said to me, would I bury her ashes underneath a cherry tree that we've got in this cottage in Gloucestershire? And that's the one thing that I have not been able to do. I've still got her ashes in the box that they came in. They're your sister's sister. I can't bring myself to do that. And, you know, I know that people said, well, that's her last wish, but it might not be her actual ashes. I said, that doesn't really matter. It's just that is the last thing that I have of her physically. And I just can't bring myself to do that because I think, well, if I sell this house or there's a rainstorm and the mud. Illogical stuff. So I think just better to keep this in the box.
3:53 Speaker 04 I don't think it's illogical at all.
3:55 Speaker 03 Well, she asked that they be, you know, buried in the garden.
4:00 Speaker 04 But I do understand. I understand you saying if there's rain or like if we sell like then she's left there and.
4:08 Speaker 03 But that's. That's not practical. It's just an emotional, you know, thing.
4:17 Speaker 04 Still stopping you from doing that, isn't it?
4:22 Speaker 03 Sentimental, OldFool.com. Yeah.
4:26 Speaker 04 It's very interesting, those last minutes, because I kept just telling my sister that I was gonna be okay.
4:32 Speaker 03 Oh, did you?
4:32 Speaker 04 I knew she was worried about that. Like, don't worry about me, I'm gonna be okay. Like, you can... Because she looked after me so much.
4:42 Speaker 03 Yeah.
4:42 Speaker 04 Emotionally.
4:44 Speaker 03 So, when you said that to her, what was her reply?
4:46 Speaker 04 There wasn't one, because she was, she was kind of put to sleep.
4:51 Speaker 03 Oh, she couldn't talk anymore?
4:52 Speaker 04 No. But I think they said she can still hear.
4:56 Speaker 03 Yeah, apparently hearing is the last sense, or whatever, to go. Because Joan said to my daughter and I, four days before she died, "I know that you're gonna be sad, but try and find a pocketful of happiness in each day", which was a brilliant mantra to bitch to live by.
5:11 Speaker 04 Well, you wrote, you wrote your book.
5:12 Speaker 03 Yeah.
5:13 Speaker 04 A Pocketful of Happiness. So, tell me, what, what did she mean by that?
5:17 Speaker 03 She, I think, more than anything, she said, "I know that you will be sad, but every single one of us, including you two, are going to die." So, without saying it, what is built into that little phrase is, "Don't have any guilt about feeling joy or happiness after I'm gone." And that has been an amazing thing, not to feel guilt of thinking, "My goodness, this Christmas pudding tastes fantastic. Hope it's Joan's not here." No, but it still tastes fantastic.
5:52 Speaker 03 Yeah, to...
5:53 Speaker 04 She gifted you that?
5:54 Speaker 03 To really embrace what you have, and not think, "Oh, you've got to walk around in a quagmire of grief for the rest of your life."
6:02 Speaker 04 Does that...
6:03 Speaker 03 I think that's really good.
6:04 Speaker 04 ...speak to the kind of person that she was?
6:07 Speaker 03 Yeah. Yeah, she's very pragmatic and also, you know, philosophical about that's... You've got to, you've got to enjoy yourself. Otherwise, you, you know, what are you gonna be, walking around in widow's weeds, widowers weeds, for the rest of your breathing days? That's not good either.
6:27 Speaker 04 But how were you after she died?
6:35 Speaker 03 You think, you feel that you're never going to be able to fully breathe again, because it's so... You know, it's like an anvil's been stuck on your chest, and that you're not going to be able to walk, or...
6:51 Speaker 03 I think more than anything, I felt like a crab, or a tortoise, or a turtle, that your shell has been taken off, that you're so vulnerable, that you can be just squashed by anything. And you can't imagine that your life can ever normalise again. And people always say, you know, "Time will heal", or "Time will tell", or all these cliches that come out with.
7:17 Speaker 03 So it's a sort of day-by-day
7:20 Speaker 03 adjustment. I don't, you know, four years on from her death, I don't wake up and think, "Oh, Joan's dead today", which I had done for so long. And the wonderful trick of memory is that, I don't know whether you've had this, but I've experienced in the last six months, a recalibration of it, that when I remember her now, I remember her
7:47 Speaker 03 in full health.
7:49 Speaker 03 I don't remember her when she was, what she looked like, and was like when she was ill. And if I look at photographs again of it, I'm really taken aback of how altered somebody is by disease. Have you had that experience with your sister?
8:05 Speaker 04 I definitely just think of my sister in rude health,
8:08 Speaker 03 In rude health, yeah. And how long did it take for you to have that?
8:11 Speaker 04 About, probably five years, I would say.
8:13 Speaker 03 Yeah.
8:16 Speaker 03 And do you feel guilt at all about the fact that you're living and she's not?
8:22 Speaker 04 No.
8:23 Speaker 03 No.
8:24 Speaker 04 I never have.
8:24 Speaker 03 Good.
8:47 Speaker 04 Weren't we lucky?
8:48 Speaker 03 Really lucky. Really, really lucky.
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9:22 Speaker 01 Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPac.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.
9:52 Speaker 02 USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day. Like superheroes and sidekicks, or auto and home insurance. With USAA, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a quote at USAA.com/bundle. Restrictions apply.
10:07 Speaker 06 I was 70 when I met John, and he was 64. We were very set in our ways. He'd had a life in fashion and designing clothes and things.
10:18 Speaker 04 How did you meet?
10:20 Speaker 06 We met in a friend's house. And it was quite funny because the woman who I...
10:32 Speaker 06 A friend and I were taking, were sharing a cab to get back from Halifax to go to, for her to go to this party and for me to go home. And I said, let's drop me first because I'm on the way. And she said, no, I'm in such a hurry because I've got such an important dinner party. And, and my sister and I are giving it and I'm, it's me and her giving it. So I have to be there. And she was panicking and, and very jumpy about this dinner party. And so I said, all right, so we, we dropped her and she said, come in for a drink. And I, and I went in and there were, this dinner party was a table for four with candles and champagne and beautiful lighting and all flowers. And I mean, it was an obvious setup for four people.
11:17 Speaker 04 Right.
11:18 Speaker 06 And these were two sisters who were giving the party. And John was one of the.
11:23 Speaker 04 So he was being match made with one of the sisters.
11:25 Speaker 06 Yes, he was definitely to be, he was designed for one of them.
11:30 Speaker 04 And was it?
11:30 Speaker 06 Either of them either, I think.
11:32 Speaker 04 Was it an instant attraction?
11:34 Speaker 06 Um, I have not for me. I was so, felt such a gooseberry that I just wanted to get out.
11:40 Speaker 04 Yeah, I imagine.
11:41 Speaker 06 Conversations when you know you shouldn't be there. And so I, I wasn't concentrating at all and I didn't listen to anything he said.
11:50 Speaker 06 Um, but apparently I told him that I was going to Canada, of which I was on a book tour. And so the next day, this guy arrives, um, on what I, I'm so unobservant that I thought he was driving a quad, you know, it was a big Rashid.
12:07 Speaker 04 Yes.
12:08 Speaker 06 As I thought it was a sort of farmer's quad.
12:10 Speaker 04 Yeah.
12:10 Speaker 06 And he said, oh, I brought you a letter. I thought you'd gone to Canada.
12:16 Speaker 06 So I said, and he said, I'm the guy from last night.
12:18 Speaker 04 So wait, he saw you, he thought you'd gone to Canada. He wrote you a letter.
12:24 Speaker 06 Yeah.
12:25 Speaker 04 And came to your house to deliver it.
12:27 Speaker 06 Yes, yes, to say.
12:28 Speaker 04 Wow, heen.
12:29 Speaker 06 Yeah, I think he and said, the letter said, I know you're in Canada, but I just wanted to tell you where I live and also suggest we have a walk with our dogs, because we talked about our dogs when you, when I come back. So I said, well, let's go now. In fact, I met him because just as I walked out of the front door with my secretary, my P A, we walked out together. We were going to walk the dog around the field. So I said, well, we're going to walk the dog around the field. Why don't you come too, which I don't think was what he had planned.
13:04 Speaker 04 But when he said, let's walk the dog together, he wasn't quite meaning with someone else.
13:08 Speaker 06 And with my P A. Anyhow, the three of us walked around the field and, and Francesca, my P A, very quickly got the message that she was the good screen out. So, so she went off when we, he came in for a drink and she went off. And, and, and you, you know that thing when you fall in love and you, you just talk all night.
13:31 Speaker 04 Yes, yes.
13:32 Speaker 06 So exciting. And he was chattering away. I realize now he was quite nervous because I know him well enough, but he, he seemed to me totally confident and, and he was just talking about history. I mean, I remember him walking up and down. I was sitting on the sofa and he was walking about and he was talking, talking to me about traveling and why.
13:56 Speaker 04 And you love traveling, right?
13:57 Speaker 06 He does love it and so do I. And then we went out to dinner and then I went, then he said, would you come to my house and I'll cook you dinner? And I thought, oh, he could cook.
14:08 Speaker 04 Wow.
14:09 Speaker 06 When I got there, he cooked me, um, haggis. And you know haggis, nobody has to cook haggis, it comes ready made.
14:16 Speaker 04 Yes.
14:17 Speaker 06 It must have been the first ready meal, because nobody would want to actually cook haggis. So, so you just heat it up in the microwave.
14:25 Speaker 04 Mm.
14:25 Speaker 06 So it haggis and bash neeps, because he's a Scot.
14:28 Speaker 04 Right.
14:29 Speaker 06 And of course, I love that, and it was absolutely delicious. So he always said, well, it worked because she, because she stayed for breakfast. And unfortunately, it was the last thing he cooked for me.
14:39 Speaker 04 Oh.
14:40 Speaker 06 Because the next time, also, tha- that first couple of weeks, he, eh, we were talking about beef, what was the best beef? And he, and, and, and he, I was so impressed because he bought some Dexter steaks, and Dexter are a wonderful breed of, they're, they're a bit like Aberdeen and Angus, but they're much smaller.
15:01 Speaker 04 Right.
15:02 Speaker 06 And they, they're, they're, they're very flavorful.
15:06 Speaker 04 Hmm.
15:07 Speaker 06 But they're quite small. Anyhow, they had two fillet steaks, Dexter fillet steaks. Well, I mean, nobody buys fillet steaks anymore, they cost an arm and a leg, so I was really impressed that he had bought two fillet Dexter steaks. And he put the frying pan on the, on the heat, and he put a blob of butter in it, and it was just beginning to melt. And then he put the steaks in, and I just jumped it. I mean, I, eh, there's only one rule about steaks, you get the hat. The, first of all, it's not a good idea to use butter straight away, because it burns. You need to get a little bit of oil and put it, get it so hot that the pan is absolutely smoking, so that you get that lovely sear.
15:51 Speaker 04 Yes.
15:52 Speaker 06 And the juice doesn't run out the steaks, and then you can put some butter in. Anyway, I was just so anxious, I mean, I wasn't thinking about him, I was just thinking about, they're the best steaks in the world, and you're ruining them. I pushed him out of the way, and, and I.
16:07 Speaker 04 Sorted it.
16:08 Speaker 06 And I cooked the steaks. So I've been cooking ever since.
16:11 Speaker 04 No.
16:13 Speaker 06 That was the last thing.
16:14 Speaker 04 You've made a rod for your own back?
16:15 Speaker 06 Yeah, but I don't care, because actually, I love cooking. And, and we, eh, he, eh, if you asked him what he lives on, he'd say leftovers. I do remind him that, you know, the only reason there are leftovers is because I must have done some prime cooking at some point, because. Leftovers from some.
16:33 Speaker 04 From what?
16:34 Speaker 06 Yes, exactly.
16:35 Speaker 04 How long have you two been together now, sixteen?
16:38 Speaker 06 Yeah, fifteen.
16:38 Speaker 04 Fifteen years?
16:39 Speaker 06 Something like that.
16:40 Speaker 04 I mean, you know what's really nice, Prue?
16:42 Speaker 06 What?
16:43 Speaker 04 Is that when you talk about him, it's like you're talking about a new love. You look, you look happy and excited.
16:50 Speaker 06 He's a lovely guy, he's a lovely guy. And I'm very lucky. I mean, not many people have one happy marriage, never mind two.
16:58 Speaker 04 Yes.
16:59 Speaker 06 And I had a really, my first marriage was really happy.
17:03 Speaker 04 To Rain?
17:04 Speaker 06 Rain.
17:05 Speaker 04 Hmm.
17:05 Speaker 06 Um, he was a lot older than me and, and I, so I always knew he'd died before me because he was twenty years older than me. Um, but he was wonderful man and um I'm so lucky to have had him for twenty year, twenty five years.
17:24 Speaker 06 And then I had eight years. I didn't like widowhood, that's not.
17:27 Speaker 04 No. You've lived an incredibly varied life, you know, you've done, you've had two husbands and you loved both of them. It wasn't like you fell out of love in a divorce or
17:40 Speaker 06 I know.
17:40 Speaker 04 Anything like that. And you've experienced great love twice in your life, which is extraordinary. And then.
17:47 Speaker 06 Lucky, I mean, how many people get?
17:49 Speaker 04 No, not many. Not many people have one, you know, it's really something else. And two children who've brought you such joy and then such an incredible career and I was.
18:02 Speaker 06 I often think, Adwina, you know, it's um
18:08 Speaker 06 I just do, do think that I deserve the sword of Damocles to knock me on. I mean, I should
18:15 Speaker 06 it's, it's not fair that I've had so much luck.
18:18 Speaker 01 Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side, but Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid and risked three hundred fifty thousand Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPac.com, not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.
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