Robinhood Announces Tokenized Stocks! LIVE with CEO Vlad Tenev, Johann Kerbrat, and AJ Warner

In this series of three interviews from Cannes, we host Vlad Tenev, CEO of Robinhood, Johann Kerbrat, GM of Crypto at Robinhood, and AJ Warner from Arbitrum to explore key announcements from their recent Token Summit. They discuss the introduction of tokenized stock options for private companies like SpaceX and OpenAI, aiming to democratize access for retail investors. Vlad highlights Robinhood’s commitment to addressing investment inequities, while Johann shares insights on the technological challenges and their Layer 2 blockchain initiative facilitating 24/7 trading. They also navigate the regulatory landscape with the SEC and CFTC, envisioning a future where private shares become accessible and entrepreneurial capital raising is enhanced. The conversation wraps up with plans to improve user experience for new financial products in Robinhood’s evolving crypto offerings. ------ 📣SPOTIFY PREMIUM RSS FEED | USE CODE: SPOTIFY24 https://bankless.cc/spotify-premium ------ BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS: 🪙FRAX | SELF SUFFICIENT DeFi https://bankless.cc/Frax 🦄UNISWAP | SWAP ON UNICHAIN https://bankless.cc/unichain 🛞MANTLE | MODULAR LAYER 2 NETWORK https://bankless.cc/Mantle 🟠 BINANCE | THE WORLDS #1 CRYPTO EXCHANGE https://bankless.cc/binance ------ TIMESTAMPS 0:00 Interview with Vlad Tenev 21:00 Interview with Johann Kerbrat 37:30 Interview with AJ Warner ------ RESOURCES Vlad Tenev https://x.com/vladtenev Vlad’s Washington Post Op-Ed https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2025/01/28/investing-crypto-tech-robinhood-stock-market/ Johann Kerbrat https://x.com/johannkerbrat AJ Warner https://x.com/ajwarner90 ------ Not financial or tax advice. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures⁠

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04David Hoffman?

  I'm here with Vlad, the CEO of Robinhood, right at the end of their To Catch a Token Summit. Vlad, you guys launched so many things today. As this wraps up, share a little bit of your sentiment. How are you feeling?

• 0:16Speaker 01

  I'm feeling really good. I mean, I think that there was one technical glitch, which you probably noticed.

• 0:22David Hoffman?

  Oh, the slow connectivity? I thought that was easily overcomable.

• 0:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So what turned out what happened was so many people were downloading the app and trying to get the stock tokens that had brought down the network. So, yeah, but it turned out everything worked. I thought the team did a nice job and it was a lot of fun. You know, we put so much work into these products. The engineers are building them. They've been working for a long time that I think the least we can do is put on a nice event so that we can communicate the value as nicely as possible. So I think it was a lot of fun. It was, hopefully, the crowd enjoyed it, too.

• 0:56David Hoffman?

  You guys did a great job. Now, I had the embargo. You guys gave us the embargo, so I knew what was coming.

• 1:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01David Hoffman?

  Except for the private tokenized companies of SpaceX and OpenAI, which I think kind of stole the show for what everyone was excited about. And that's really something that is something that Robinhood is really tapping into what feels like just the financials, like I said, of our times. You know, with so much VC capital out there, companies are able to stay private later and later. This is something that we talked about last time you were on the show. Was this something that, because after you built out the tokenized stocks product offering, you were like, oh, we could easily just extend this to private companies? Or what was the thought process behind that?

• 1:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, so the thought process was twofold. I don't know if you've caught the op-ed that I wrote in The Washington Post earlier this year. And really, I've been thinking about tokenization for many, many years. And the benefits of tokenization is very, very clear that it's the future. And it's very useful for Europeans and folks outside the US. And then when you communicate the value of the technology inside the US, it's sort of like talking about high-speed rail when you already have medium-speed rail.

• 2:07David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 2:08Speaker 01

  And by that, I mean, in the US, we already have pretty robust financial infrastructure. It's not amazing, but you know, we don't have 24/7, we have 24/5 trading of stocks. It's pretty good. It's pretty easy to use. Robinhood, I think, has played a role in democratizing it and making it accessible to tens of millions of customers. So the delta between tokenization and the existing infrastructure for public stocks is there. I think it will happen, but it's perhaps a little bit less severe than outside the US. But one benefit that I think is very, very strong is the ability to make all kinds of assets tradable, even those that aren't on liquid exchanges.

• 2:53Speaker 01

  And private stocks are this thing that, you know, it's frankly a big problem. You have companies like SpaceX and OpenAI that are worth hundreds of billions. They're essentially able to raise unlimited amounts of capital while staying private. And if you're a retail investor, you're shut out from all of that appreciation. Even a high-net-worth investor has difficulty getting into some of these companies.

• 3:16David Hoffman?

  And interestingly enough, they're also the coolest companies that everyone wants access to.

• 3:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's actually, it concerns me quite a bit that AI, I believe, is going to be an incredibly transformative platform shift, probably bigger than we've had it before, bigger than mobile, maybe even bigger than the internet on relative terms. And yet, it's not like the internet where you have the dot-coms and you could have exposure to all of these assets in the private markets. By and large, a lot of the innovation is in private companies that shut out retail. So if we can democratize it, make it available, you know, outside the US where there's clarity, but over time, bring this technology, which truly will allow 24/7 real-time trading of private companies to the US as well, I think that could...

• 4:05Speaker 01

  I mean, I think that could resolve one of the greatest longstanding inequities in capital markets today.

• 4:10David Hoffman?

  So I'm imagining this rollout to Robinhood Retail. There can only be so many shares of OpenAI and SpaceX on the market. It is a private company. There are shares that do float, that do trade.

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 4:22David Hoffman?

  But there can't be that many. I could imagine the hype behind this growing quite large. And then all of a sudden, there being a supply shortage of OpenAI or SpaceX shares to create a premium, a premium on the shares. Do you have enough of those shares to actually supply to the market that has the demand for them?

• 4:41Speaker 01

  Well, this is just the beginning. And as I mentioned on the presentation, the OpenAI and the SpaceX shares right now are a gift to these users. So we had, I want to say, a million OpenAI, half a million of SpaceX. So you're right.

• 4:56David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  The focus now is on making sure we can get them tradable 24/7. I think that'll be a big technology unlock, and we believe we have a path to do that. And then, over the long run, we're going to open this up much bigger. So I think you should be able to, on a secondary basis, transact a huge number of private companies, a large number of private companies, thousands. And then I think this could actually grow to a primary source of capital as well. So if you think about, you know, OpenAI, SpaceX, companies of that nature, they have raised tens of billions in funding.

• 5:32David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  Maybe hundreds of billions. And so if retail can become a mechanism and a vector,

• 5:38David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  not just for secondary transactions, but for entrepreneurs when they want to raise primary capital, even at early stages. I think that's super transformative for entrepreneurship. And people don't talk about that enough. I think that could lead to more startups and more entrepreneurship in the world by a very, very wide margin.

• 5:57David Hoffman?

  Yeah, certainly, there is something that the NASDAQ and the New York Stock Exchange should really be taking a look at, which is that there's a possibility that OpenAI, SpaceX, say this tokenization vertical out of Robinhood really gets a lot of traction, the traction that I'm sure you wanted to. If there is dominant liquidity for these assets that happen on-chain and inside of crypto venues, and the companies can also raise money from retail investors or just from the private market world, even though it's trading publicly, there's perhaps just never a need for these private companies to actually do the traditional IPO and go on the public traditional markets, but they can go on the public blockchain markets. Is that a world that you're trying to foster?

• 6:38Speaker 01

  Well, I think a lot of people ask about, you know, alternatives to the traditional IPO process. I think we've already seen an alternative to the traditional IPO process, which is companies just staying private essentially forever. I mean, these companies have an alternative. They could just keep raising unlimited amounts of capital in the private markets and in doing so, shut out retail potentially forever. I mean, you've had some founders say that they never plan to go public.

• 7:11David Hoffman?

  It's a burden.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I think the solution for that case is, I mean, I'm generally pro the IPO as a process. Of course, it's gotten very burdensome, but Robinhood became a public company in 2021. I think some people in the environment will just choose to not go public. And for that, we need to figure out how to unlock the private shares and make them available to retail as well.

• 7:37David Hoffman?

  Certainly. Now, there's a notion that capital begets capital, liquidity begets liquidity. And again, if these private companies start trading on crypto venues, you can see the dominant price discovery of these assets, the liquidity of these assets happen on-chain or on Bitstamp for when it's weekends and amongst those other things. And one of the big features of this is the 24/7/355 markets that tokenization really enables for you. There have been some promises that the crypto industry, checks that we wrote as an industry

• 8:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:06David Hoffman?

  back in 2011, 2013, everything is going to come on-chain, we're going to tokenize the world, 24/7/365 trading, include retail earlier and earlier in the process. And just, there's a couple announcements here, the tokenized stocks, tokenized private companies, and 24/7/365 trading of traditional assets, all happening in this announcement. And so, I'm getting this idea that, well, there's a few instances of Robin Hood actually cashing that check that the crypto industry conceptually wrote in 2013. So it gets me excited, there's no real question here.

• 8:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:41David Hoffman?

  But there's a full circle coming here at this event.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that it's really interesting. So, there has been a lot of talk, and legitimately not a ton of action, in the form of usable products that are compliant in like, real jurisdictions. And I think the problem, the reason it's taken this long, is you need to be incredibly strong at two things that are very, very different. One is, there needs to be a certain amount of like, regulatory know-how, working with regulators, trad-fi muscle, I'll call it, that we've kind of, you know, refined over 10-plus years of being regulated very, very heavily across multiple jurisdictions.

• 9:25Speaker 01

  We also have to understand these assets, and these traditional assets that we have to tokenize, and we've built up a very, very scaled, traditional financial services business, while simultaneously becoming one of the largest players in retail crypto in the US, but now expanding outside. And so, I don't think too many companies can bridge that gap of being very, very strong in trad-fi and crypto, and I think that's what's needed to merge the two. And also, just being sort of like, more muscular from a regulatory standpoint, where, you know, we've worked hard over the past 10 years, and a lot of the policymakers and regulators that have helped make this happen are actually at this event tonight.

• 10:10David Hoffman?

  Certainly, yeah. So, one of the announcements that you guys had is perps, futures, perps for crypto assets. But, once you have a tokenized stock, that also becomes a crypto asset. So, down the line, is there on the roadmap, perps, perp futures, as you announced for crypto, but for tokenized stocks?

• 10:28Speaker 01

  That's a good question. I think the intent is that the technology that we've built here is incredibly general. It can be used to power and tokenize pretty much anything. And actually, you know, private stocks and public stocks are quite different mechanically as assets. So, you know, we'll, we'll take customer demand. We'll, we'll probably have futures versions of crypto assets. I mean, we've listed a bunch of those in the U S already with, you know, the, the micro, XRP and ETH and Solana futures, which are sort of like TradFi instruments of crypto products.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  And then with tokenization, it's crypto instruments that reflect TradFi products. And we'll, we'll just offer everything that customers want in a, you know, safe and compliant manner. That, that's, that's the goal.

• 11:24David Hoffman?

  The crypto idea is that perps are better than options. And so the crypto believer will say like, oh, well, if it's a head-to-head competition between perps and options, people are going to use perps every single time. It's more intuitive. It's more easy to think about. And so I would hope that as perps becomes more understood by the audience, the consumer base, that perps as a financial instrument would proliferate, you know, alongside the rise of tokenized equities, tokenized stocks. That's my, that's my attitude. I don't know if you have a comment on that or just, or anything at all.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  You know, I don't want to upset my, my options friends. I think they have their, their unique use cases. So I mean, there, there are certain, certain scenarios where an options trade might make sense. And, you know, you could put together a multi-leg strategy and benefit from sideways markets, perhaps a little bit more easily than you could with a straight up perpetual future. You could have, you know, iron condors or butterflies. You know, these are things that are active traders are really experts in, in, in many cases. So, you know, if, if, if there's a demand for those products, we have the capability of adding them as well.

• 12:31David Hoffman?

  And with the access for the United States markets, which I'm sure, you know, plenty of United States viewers watching this and also watching the announcement. I'm sure just tromping at the bit to get their hands on perps on side of Robinhood or tokenized stocks on side of Robinhood. I know you guys are barred by the CFTC. You guys need the CFTC to give yourselves a thumbs up. Coinbase, I'm sure, is also waiting for that same regulatory green light to launch these tokenized stocks for their retail base. Are you in conversations with the CFTC? Are we at the beginning of this conversation? Kind of where are we for US citizens getting their hands on these things?

• 13:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it's our belief that tokenized stocks in the US will end up being governed by the SEC, regulated by the SEC.

• 13:11David Hoffman?

  I mean, that was the perpetuals conversation. Pardon me.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, the perpetuals, the perpetuals would be governed by the CFTC. And when it comes to stocks, I think there's openness from the SEC, the Crypto Task Force, who we've been, we have been having meetings with. You know, Johan, our crypto GM, was in Washington a couple of weeks ago on the Tokenization Roundtable, which was hosted by the Crypto Task Force. And yeah, it's our belief, actually, that this can be done by the SEC alone without the need for additional rulemaking by Congress. And they seem open to it. I think in the, in the US in particular, we want to make sure any product we roll out

• 13:52Speaker 01

  is like fully compliant and the regulators are on board every step along the way. In particular, because our offerings in the US are so good already. I mean, we've got 24/5 trading, a huge universe of stocks. It's very easy to use with Robinhood. So, I mean, you would get weekends and holidays, which are nice, but we want to make sure that it's very, very good and an amazingly compliant product. And we think we can get there. We have the technology. We think we can get there relatively soon.

• 14:27David Hoffman?

  Certainly. So, Robinhood has become a leading crypto platform for its retail user base, largely because you guys have so much distribution. Your crypto products previously have lagged other competitors, whereas Coinbase has more assets on their platform. They had their wallet before Robinhood had the wallet. And so when Robinhood would release a product, it would generally be somewhere between six to 12 months behind a Coinbase product because Coinbase is crypto-specific, is crypto-native. Robinhood, you have plenty of TradFi activity that you also need to maintain. But on this, with the announcements here today, some of them are products that Coinbase just announced just a few weeks ago. And with many of the on-chain stocks, that's actually leapfrogging Coinbase. They kind of beat them to a punch on a number of the things. So is this Robinhood becoming

• 15:12David Hoffman?

  a leading crypto-native company? I know 30% of your revenue already comes from crypto. And so where do you think your relationship with crypto grows? Are you investing even further into this industry? Are you guys trying to go and take down Coinbase? What do you think?

• 15:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's an interesting question. I'd say traditionally, you're right. Our approach to building products and rolling out features has sometimes been described as Apple-like, in the sense that Apple really use it. It's usually not the first to market, not like the bleeding-edge innovator, but they sort of like focus on the user experience and the design and the product quality and make it very, very accessible. And I think that's been a good analogy. I mean, we, I think when you bring up the wallet as an example, like our wallet wasn't the first to market, but I think it was the first to market in an intuitive way that rolled out features like gasless swapping, which I think if you're

• 16:09Speaker 01

  a retail user and you expect this technology to go mass-market, like thinking through the gas and the fees and a different currency is just very, very confusing. So we felt like gasless swapping was important, and I think we're actually one of the first to enable that. But you're also right that, you know, now we're kind of pushing the frontier. And I think we are the first big platform, or at least among the first, to roll out these tokenized offerings. And with the private company stock tokens, definitely on the bleeding-edge. So it's a new place for us to be in. We're usually used to, you know, coming in later into a market, taking share through just like price competition, efficiency, sort of

• 16:51Speaker 01

  a war of attrition, and now being first, but bringing that capability of lower pricing, great technology. It's fun. So we'll see how it goes.

• 17:00David Hoffman?

  Last question, Vlad, and I know you have to hop to another interview. The layer two, the Robinhood chain.

• 17:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:06David Hoffman?

  Talk to me about what the the long term relationship is between the Robinhood app and the Robinhood chain. And I think, you know, listeners and myself, our frames of knowledge are going to come from the relationship between Coinbase and Base, where Base is actually a pretty big universe in of itself. And then Coinbase also uses Base to get Bitcoin-backed loans, and they offer that straight through the front end. Is this kind of something that you're trying to do similarly with Robinhood? Where you have, it's a developer ecosystem, developers can build permissionlessly on the Robinhood chain? Or are you more using it just to settle backend logic for your own needs and your own simplicity? How do you think about the long term relationship between Robinhood and its own layer two?

• 17:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, and by the way, I think the team over at Base, it's a good team. I think they've done a very, very nice job. And they're pushing the sort of like base is for everyone campaign, which I think has been relatively effective. I think our niche in this space is it's maybe not going to be useful for everyone in every use case. But what we intend to do is make it the best chain for real world assets. I think real world assets have very specific needs and qualities. And making this the best chain for real world assets, starting with stocks, going into private company shares. You know, we mentioned real estate and art, and those things are very, very interesting to me as well.

• 18:26Speaker 01

  And combining that with the lowest possible fees and really, I like to call it, you know, we're trying to build like military grade robustness. I think that's going to be exciting. And I do think that that's going to be an interesting proposition that should attract some developers. We talked to a lot of folks building chains and the value prop that I hear a lot of is, you know, this is the number one chain for D gens.

• 18:51David Hoffman?

  Sure, yeah.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  I probably, I probably met like seven or eight D gen chain builders. And we're trying to go in the opposite direction. We want it to be the number one chain for real world assets and for it to sort of confer fundamental utility to all participants.

• 19:09David Hoffman?

  Cool. Well, Vlad, I can say I'm excited for. What you guys have announced, I'm pretty optimistic for what you guys can do. And it's nice to see another big company helping the world move on chain. So we appreciate it.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for joining us here and helping be part of the journey.

• 19:23David Hoffman?

  I do have to ask, last time we had you on the show, we talked about tokenization of XTRIs. And you talked about the private markets and all that. And I wrote this article on Bankless the next day, saying Vlad wants to tokenize SpaceX and OpenAI.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 19:39David Hoffman?

  So these plans have been in the works for a while? Or when did that idea come about?

• 19:42Speaker 01

  Let's see. Well, I talked about SpaceX and OpenAI in the op ed. And what I found is if you write about stuff often enough, sometimes it ends up happening.

• 19:54David Hoffman?

  So you manifested it.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'd like to think so. And of course, it's really nice to see that a lot of competitors have been like jumping on and trying to do this stuff too, which I think would be good. I think I'm here for the future when everything is on-chain and we move beyond Bitcoin and meme coins into a place where crypto is actually very, very useful and it confers fundamental utility to participants. And I think that's going to be exciting and the time has come. I think it's this year.

• 20:25David Hoffman?

  Vlad, congrats and thanks for coming on the show.

• 20:27Speaker 01

  Thank you so much.

• 20:28David Hoffman?

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• 21:54David Hoffman?

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• 22:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I lead the crypto business at Robinhood. So everything that is related to crypto usually goes around my team. You know, we are really excited to have launched all these products today. I initially joined Robinhood a bit more than four years ago as a CTO for the crypto group. And I've been running the business for a few years now.

• 22:53David Hoffman?

  And so all of the big decisions that happen in the crypto universe of Robinhood, the Bitstamp acquisition, the Robinhood wallet, all of this is under your oversight?

• 23:03Speaker 02

  Yes, I would be right. So my team and I, you know, we worked very hard on all this announcement and this project and this acquisition. And so we are really excited to see, you know, the enthusiasm from people here.

• 23:14David Hoffman?

  So the acquisition of Bitstamp was a pretty big deal. Before that, there was the Robinhood wallet. Before that, there was just, you know, you could buy select crypto assets on Robinhood. There's been certainly a crescendoing of activity on the crypto side of things from Robinhood. Just talk a little bit about Robinhood's long arc with crypto. It seems to be growing. It seems to be like crescendoing in excitement. Talk about that arc and where we are today.

• 23:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, so you know, we launched crypto in 2018, to your point, with just a few assets. And then we started to add more assets. We started to add functionality, like transferring the Robinhood wallet, which was our self custody wallet. And slowly, we, you know, really built on this vision that crypto and blockchain technology can be the backbone of the financial system of tomorrow. And really, what this event is about is how will we rebuild Robinhood using blockchain technology? And, you know, in the EU, we're actually almost all in blockchain technology. So now, EU customers can actually trade crypto, stake crypto, but they can also do perpetual on two assets. And they can also do stock tokens to get exposure to US stocks and ETF. And so I think that's what's really exciting for me.

• 24:21Speaker 02

  You know, I joined Robinhood because I wanted to bring this mass adoption and stop talking just about the technical and the protocols and actually giving tools that people can use every day and use blockchain.

• 24:31David Hoffman?

  So, Perps is one of the big announcements that you guys had this today. And Perps is a financial instrument that was created in the crypto universe, but isn't inherently crypto by any means. It's just a neutral financial instrument. In theory, that could have gone into the regular Robinhood app for regular tokenized or non-tokenized assets, normal equities. But instead, it is first being primarily introduced in the crypto context of which it's native. So that's under your domain. Talk about that choice to keep it inside of the crypto context when it could have also been applied to like more normal financial instruments in the rest of Robinhood.

• 25:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, there is a few issues on, you know, the CFTC side. And for example, Perps are not necessarily something that exists in the US today. You can do like long dated contracts, but it's not something that really is a perpetual that's all over indefinitely. And so in the EU, we received our license, our MiFID license and our MICA license. So we're able to actually bring perpetuals. And it's something that is really exciting because, you know, a lot of what we were saying on stage was about how complicated it is to use Perps on different platforms. And you can very hardly do it on a phone. You know, you always have to update your, your take profit, your stop loss. You want to make sure that, you know, you're not going to lose too much money or take too much risk. And so you're always having to kind of stay at a desktop to use it.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  And so what we wanted to build on Robinhood was really an interface that you can use on a, on a, on to go basis, basically. And just with a swipe of a finger, being able to update your position and your strategy and make sure that you don't take too many risks.

• 26:02David Hoffman?

  Do you see the perps instrument spreading further and more integrated into the rest of Robinhood? Or is it kind of you'll follow the demand, we'll see how it is adopted? How do you see it expanding?

• 26:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think there is two aspects for the perps. There is the retail, there is also the institutional aspect. So the backend that we're using for perps is Bitstamp and that exchange is actually open to institutions. So we expect to see institutions also coming to that. But we also announced stock tokens today that are like token that gives you exposure to US stocks, US ETF. In a world where you have crypto tokens and perps combined together, you could see a world where you can have perps on tokenized assets, basically.

• 26:44David Hoffman?

  Let's talk about the chain because I think that's one of the most exciting announcements that we've seen out of today. But there was also a choice that was made. I'm fuzzy on the details, but I understand that there was also a potential deal, some sort of deal with Solana about some interest in working with Solana. Maybe that deal is still open, I don't know. But what we heard from today out of Robinhood was the launch of a layer two on the Arbitrum Orbit tech stack. So talk to us about that choice, that strategy. Why was that the right strategy for Robinhood?

• 27:12Speaker 02

  Well, you know, there was a few things. We talked to a lot of chains. So when the rumor started, it was just about the fact that we were talking to chains. And for us, we wanted to understand, like, do we want to use an existing permissionless chain? Or do we want to build something that is custom for us? And really, when we started to look at the complexity of what we are trying to build and all the ambition that we have around stock tokens and bringing the financial system on chain, we felt like having our chain was giving us a lot more optionality. We are able to build the right regulatory requirements on the chain and also making sure that it can scale with us. And why Arbitrum, for us, there was a few things.

• 27:50Speaker 02

  We really like the fact that the way that you can use Stylus, which is a system that basically allows you to use any kind of code. So you don't have to be stuck with one type of code, but you can actually bring like Rust, C++, whatever you want. And so that's very helpful if you're thinking about the long term and the type of products that we want to build. The second thing that we liked was a priority queue system that is non-predator. And also, you know, we have been good partner with Arbitrum for a long time. We've partnered a few times on the wallet. And we overall expect to be a good partner with every chain. So you mentioned Solana. We, you know, we offer like, for example, no fees on the wallet on Solana. If you're a gold customer, we also offer staking on Solana on multiple platforms. So we want to be good partners with everybody.

• 28:34David Hoffman?

  Okay, so just to trace over what I heard you say. The main reason why the Arbitrum Layer two was selected was one, the customizability. And also two, the reading between the lines, the MEV control. As in, if you guys run the sequencer, you know, MEV is a very legally dubious topic. And if you outsource that to external parties and all of a sudden there's a little bit, you know, outside of your control. So if you have a single sequencer, which I would imagine Robin Hood is going to run. You guys just can make sure that there is no things like front running, back running, things that would otherwise be illegal in a traditional context. Because you guys are operating the chain. So customizability and control, is that kind of the two key features here?

• 29:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, some of the future, you know, that was also the interoperability between multiple ecosystems. Ethereum being a big one, you know, there is many on EVM. So we were very excited about that. But yeah, I think, I think you're right. I think the idea of having just one sequencer is not necessarily true. Like, you know, I think at some point we will want to bring a decentralization. And I think using the Arbitrum stack is helpful for that. But, you know, I think you're right. We want to make sure that we can control the products that we are going to launch at the beginning. But also build tools that are kind of the platform for everyone else to build on top of it. And use the technology that we are creating today.

• 29:49David Hoffman?

  Let's lean into that interoperability word. If you say that you are interested in interoperability, right after you talk about an announcement of tokenized stocks. I get images of these tokenized stocks moving beyond Robin Hood chain. Is that an explicit part of the plan? Talk about that future.

• 30:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think for us, the idea of tokenized asset has been that we are removing them from the wall garden. And so you can transfer them between broker, you can do a lot more things with it. Maybe, you know, you can use all the things that you're thinking about DeFi and assets. And so for us, we know that, you know, people want to move to a different chain or they want to move to a different platform. And I think it's part of the DNA, but. If we want that product to be really successful, we don't want to recreate another traditional finance system. So definitely.

• 30:34David Hoffman?

  So are the stock tokens, are they whitelisted? Or what are the transferability like conditions that are built into the token contract of the Robinhood stock tokens?

• 30:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, so right now, what we announced today for the launch, we are going to just allow it within the Robinhood app. And we are going to open self custody pretty soon. You saw it during the demo, we tried to transfer from our self custody wallet to the Robinhood app. And so we are kind of ready to go. We just want to make sure that, you know, the product is working well before we open the gate.

• 31:04David Hoffman?

  Okay, so are there, is there a whitelist contract? As in if I say, say I'm a, I have a Robinhood account or, or excuse me, an Arbitrum wallet. And I send my equity tokens to my wallet, can I send it to a friend? Who has another Arbitrum wallet? Or would they have to also be a part of the Robinhood KYC universe?

• 31:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, in the future, we would want everyone to be able to transfer between each other. I think where, you know, the mint and burning will be where you will need to be. Either a Robinhood customer or you will be, have to be a customer of somebody that is compatible with our stack.

• 31:36David Hoffman?

  Okay, cool. It makes sense that you guys have chosen Arbitrum. I was talking to AJ about this because Arbitrum is so inherently DeFi focused. So it's one thing to be able to buy and hold tokenized equities, you know, private companies especially. But it's another thing to be able to compose those into a broader DeFi ecosystem, which now Arbitrum definitely has. And so are you envisioning a world where, you know, there's an AVE implementation on the, on the Arbitrum layer, layer two? Or, you know, there's a Uniswap. So you could, can you see these tokens being interoperable with the existing DeFi Arbitrum ecosystem?

• 32:10Speaker 02

  I mean, that's a goal, you know, like I think we, we want in the future to be able to do all this. I think it's going to be hard for me to tell you like, is it going to be a heavy, is it going to be a more full or something else? But we want to make it compatible and that's why we, we picked kind of an Ethereum based solution for, for layer. Otherwise, you know, we could have done our own layer one or we could have kept it on a, on a non-permissionless chain. It would have been a lot faster and easier.

• 32:35David Hoffman?

  So, but there's also nothing inherently stopping you guys from issuing these tokens on Solana in the future, right? If there's demand there, could you also see yourselves tokenizing these across many chains?

• 32:44Speaker 02

  I think bridging is going to be part of the strategy in overall. You know, like I think, again, we want everyone to be able to use it. And so for that, I think you need to be able to give access to everybody. And you won't be able to do that if you limit yourself to just one chain.

• 32:58David Hoffman?

  So when I was listening to Vlad talk about with the whiteboard session, he talked about all the different components of the Robinhood world, especially as it was kind of came to issuing these tokens. And then also having them trade on Bitstamp when the very constrained traditional markets are only alive, you know, so many hours of the week. But now Bitstamp can trade them 24/7. And then you also have the Robinhood wallet as well. There's a very tightly integrated ecosystem of components that are being woven together there. Was that your mastermind? Is that your strategy?

• 33:30Speaker 02

  Well, I don't know about that. I think, you know, we have a very big team with a lot of talented people. So, but I think for us, that was kind of the idea. The exchange when we acquired Bitstamp was this idea of not being only reliant on market maker, but being able to support some of the new products we are thinking of, like tokenized assets. And the Robin wallet is also something that, you know, four years ago, when we were starting to build it, the idea was really to think about the DeFi world and think about the fact that at some point, people may not want to use centralized platform. And so it's great to see everything going together. And, you know, we hope to keep going like this. And there is a lot more plans that we have shared also on the private stock, for example, that is going to really get together nicely in this ecosystem.

• 34:12David Hoffman?

  Spawning a brand new chain is a pretty big undertaking. You know, it's one thing to use your own chain to deploy your own assets and to do the backend things that Robinhood needs to do, which, I mean, I think we're all very happy about. That's what blockchains are for. That's one of the big bull cases. But there's also the conversation of, well, the Robinhood chain is also going to be permissionless as well for developers and users. So that means that any old developer can come and do things on Robinhood chain. Is that a specific vertical that you are trying to foster?

• 34:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, we are excited about that. I think, you know, we call all the developers that want to be working on the Hoot chain. They want to talk to Robinhood about this. Like, it's something that we want to do and we think that will happen. For us, it's The, you know, the big long-term vision is that everybody can use these stock tokens. Everybody can build on it and you can see more type of real-world assets. And so for that, we will need a lot of developers because as, you know, important Robinhood is and with a great team that we have, we can build the entire DeFi world. There's so many things being innovating every day. And so we think that it's all coming together.

• 35:15David Hoffman?

  So Robinhood, about 30% of Robinhood revenue comes from crypto products, which I think if you told that to the average Robinhood shareholder or just the average person in traditional finance, they might be shocked about how high that number is. Do you, where do you see the trend of that number going? Because Robinhood also has a bunch of TradFi products. They just launched Robinhood Banking. They just launched Robinhood Strategies. So it's not like neglecting by any means its TradFi side, but also some of these announcements are pretty amazing. So where do you see this 30% crypto revenue going in Robinhood? Do you see that increasing, staying the same?

• 35:50Speaker 02

  You know, I think it's hard to say. Like if you think about last year, we had so many great products on Robinhood, not just on the crypto side, but you know, Evan Contract, Future, like so many new things. And so I think it's just the business as a whole has been growing. And so that's been what's really exciting. But I think for us, what we've been mostly focused on is less about the, you know, the share internally of what is Robinhood crypto doing versus the other businesses, but more like what market share we're able to get outside of Robinhood. And, you know, we've been able to grow our market share nicely in the past few quarters. And I think that's really a good signal that we are building what our customers are really excited about.

• 36:26David Hoffman?

  Let's fast forward five years, 10 years, and everything that you want about your, on the crypto side of Robinhood comes true. Paint us a picture of what that looks like. You have the Robinhood app, you have the Robinhood chain, you have the Bitstamp exchange, you have these tokenized equities, tokenized private companies. There's a big, there's a good number of puzzle pieces here. When all of these puzzle pieces that we know of come together and maybe some additional ones that we don't know of, what does that picture look like?

• 36:53Speaker 02

  Well, I think for us, we've been not really keeping a lot of secrets. Like, we want to make Robinhood available everywhere in the world. So that's one big thing. We have a wallet that is available in a lot of countries, but we also want to bring the entire Robinhood stack, like stocks and futures options, all these things. And the next thing also would be like, we want a lot more of the traditional system to be on-chain. So ideally, for me, in a few years, you use the same Robinhood that you are using today as a US customer, and most of it is using on-chain. It's a lot faster, it's instant, it's 24/7, and you don't even know it because you don't need to know all the details about the protocol.

• 37:31David Hoffman?

  Do you think you guys can dethrone the Nasdaq and the New York Stock Exchange as the centerpiece of liquidity in the future?

• 37:37Speaker 02

  Well, I think it's going to be interesting to see how the market responds to this type of asset that are being tokenized. But it is going to create a lot of opportunity. Like, you know, during weekends, off-market hours, all these things, like, you will start to see a lot more people trading these assets.

• 37:54David Hoffman?

  Will there be a token for the Robinhood chain?

• 37:57Speaker 02

  Currently, nothing to announce there. I think, you know, right now for us, the focus is to launch some of these new products and see how people are using it, and then we'll share more detail on that later.

• 38:05David Hoffman?

  John, you've gotten a lot of people excited today, including myself. So thank you for all the hard work that you've been putting in, and I think we'll be watching Robinhood with pretty good interest.

• 38:12Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me.

• 38:13David Hoffman?

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• 38:57David Hoffman?

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• 39:41David Hoffman?

  and wallet gives you the tools to unlock DeFi's full potential on Ethereum, base, Arbitrum, Unichain, and more. Use Uniswap's web app and wallet for a more efficient way to use DeFi. We're here with AJ from Arbitrum. It's a big day for Arbitrum. How do you feel?

• 39:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's awesome. It's really exciting. I'm really excited to be partnering with Robinhood on this. I really said about their vision, particularly about sort of reconstructing their platform for their users with CryptoRails. And yeah, it's an incredible day. I'm sure we'll get into it, but yeah, it feels kind of surreal in the moment.

• 40:13David Hoffman?

  The Arbitrum-Robinhood partnership goes back pretty far, like two-plus years. I don't know what the partnership looks like way back when, maybe it was just an initial deal, but it's certainly crescendoed over the years to where we are today, where we are seeing Robinhood do something very innovative, which is launch stocks that are not trading on Arbitrum with their little Arbitrum logo right there. Talk about the crescendoing of the Robinhood-Arbitrum relationship.

• 40:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, it's been really cool. So I remember, I think it was ETH Denver 2024, we announced sort of like the beginning of our partnership together. And it started with like a really simple, like, Robinhood's going to support Arbitrum in their crypto wallet, easy access for users to trade on DEXs, and sort of do other activities through that wallet experience. But we sort of started like laying the building blocks for a deeper, closer relationship. Our teams got close. Joe and I in particular, you know, sort of fostered a great working relationship. And our thesis with them has always been like, be good partners, you know, for us. We don't have this vision that crypto needs to be at the forefront or that Arbitrum needs to be at the forefront. We're a powerful technology that can power user experiences.

• 41:23Speaker 03

  And for us, Robinhood sort of and its place in fintech was always the best partner. So we, you know, we developed this relationship and obviously crescendoed into where we're at today. But the same like elements and thematic components of these guys are the best at building user experiences and we want our technology to be able to be flexible enough to be supportive of their vision to make their users happy.

• 41:47David Hoffman?

  So I would imagine that there is not one longstanding Arbitrum Robinhood deal. There's one deal at a time and every single new thing that you guys do together has to be done on, is this right for both of us? Do we like working together? So every single deal has to be one, right?

• 42:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think in many ways, like, you know, I think one of the core things that's really important for businesses that are moving as quickly as sort of both our business and their business is like flexibility to make sure that the products are right. Like, for example, today they announced like Solana staking as well. And that's a great thing for their business. They're bringing that utility to their users. I would say tokenized stocks was always like the main prize that we were after, right? Obviously, you know, I joined crypto in 2014 and for me it was ownership, sovereignty and democratizing access. And there's nothing that does that more than just the tokenized access to everything. And as Vlad mentioned in phase three, the goal is for that to be, you know, self custody, do with it what you want. And like that vision is incredible. So that was always, I would

• 42:48Speaker 03

  say, like the, the north star of what we were hoping to collaborate on. And obviously that's where we're at today. And we're starting with them on Arbitrum one. So like today, for example, the demos that they did, those assets are all minting and burning on Arbitrum one and trading. Eventually they're going to be transitioning to the Robinhood chain, which the Arbitrum Orbit stack is going to power. And I think that's one of the really cool things. And one of the things that excited them about Arbitrum is the flexibility of what we can offer as a platform, right? We have Arbitrum one as a core economic hub of, you know, crypto and financial activity, and also the ability for them to take a stack and own it. Own the customizations of it, whatever they want to do with it, and our team's going to be, you know, a strong partner in product design for what is the best product for their users.

• 43:33Speaker 03

  And there's a lot of people, reasons why people talk about wanting their own chain. But the ability for them to continue to compound their users on the Robinhood chain is going to be a very powerful thing as they build their higher company again on crypto rails. So again, like that flexibility of what Arbitrum can offer, I think is something that was a, you know, a key component of this. Because the Arbitrum platform offers the flexibility that they might need in order to continue to build their business on chain.

• 44:00David Hoffman?

  Now, I think people are pretty familiar with the deal structure of Base and the Optimism Collective. It's something like 15% of base sequence, sequence or fees, or 2.5% of total profit, whichever one's greater, goes to the Optimism Collective. And that's kind of the, the deal of the Optimism Collective. Then that's kind of like, kind of set the standard for the OP stack ecosystem.

• 44:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:23David Hoffman?

  If you are willing to share, what, what are the economics of the Robinhood chain and Arbitrum?

• 44:27Speaker 03

  Arbitrum has a similar model with the DAO, it's a little bit different, but it's similar in the sense that if you want to launch an L2, which is what Robinhood is choosing to do. Then you do a 10% profit share as well with the Arbitrum DAO. So it's a very similar model. I would say the differences in model are maybe some of the philosophical differences between Superchain and Orbit. So Superchain, you kind of opt into like a shared governance model with interoperability. With Orbit, it's, you know, just sort of contribute back into the Arbitrum DAO on the profit share through what we call the AEP. And then do whatever you want with it.

• 45:00David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 45:00Speaker 03

  Right? We expect there to be interoperability, but it's almost like an orthogonal product question to use of the stack. And because we're not sort of locked in on Orbit into specific interoperability and governance mechanisms. We can have a lot more flexibility in design of the stack. So that's why you sometimes see Arbitrum, like you see L3s, you see L2s.

• 45:21David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 45:21Speaker 03

  You see custom gas tokens, you see all these different changes because the Orbit stack provides a lot more flexibility. And that was something that was like really important to Robinhood on this journey was to make sure that they had that flexibility with the stack to own it. So like, they don't have to opt into shared governance or interoperability, but they can if they want to. My suspicion is they won't prefer to, but yeah, that's, that's how the Orbit stack structure works.

• 45:43David Hoffman?

  Yeah, so it was pretty cool to see the Arbitrum logo right next to the OpenAI. You know, transfer 1 million shares of OpenAI in the Robinhood app that everyone's familiar with and you see the little Arbitrum logo.

• 45:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:53David Hoffman?

  As you alluded to and as they said, you know, it starts on Arbitrum 1, it'll migrate over to the Robinhood chain when that thing is, you know, up and running.

• 45:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:00David Hoffman?

  But also at the same time, Arbitrum 1 already has, you know, fantastic DeFi infrastructure, which the Robinhood chain will have to start from scratch on. I don't know if they're going to leave the option to do tokenized stocks on Robinhood Arbitrum 1 persistently. Will that always be an option?

• 46:15Speaker 03

  So it's a great question. It's really going to be up to them. I mean, the reason to do it is it's another environment where they can sort of integrate. They already have been integrated, so they don't have to like uproot some of the existing established relationships that they might have on Arbitrum 1. The reason not to do it is fragmentation potentially of liquidity.

• 46:32David Hoffman?

  Hmm.

• 46:32Speaker 03

  So that's probably going to be a key product question that we're going to work on with their team over time. But you know, I guess you said Arbitrum 1 has a really robust DeFi ecosystem. I'm sure a lot of our builders are going to want to work with them on the Robinhood chain as well, which is great and something that, again, we encourage and support. I think that's probably like, we don't know yet. We'll figure that out. Sort of remember like on phase one, these assets aren't integrated yet into DeFi, right? So it's still more of a self-contained box. So today, if they migrated, they wouldn't have some of these sort of liquidity fragmentation concerns. It'd probably just be some sort of mint and burn mechanism, but it probably depends on how mature and engrossed, or if there's demand for it.

• 47:10David Hoffman?

  Sure, sure. You could just imagine that like there's a ton of potential TVL up for grabs.

• 47:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:17David Hoffman?

  And you know, if there's some inherent interoperability inside of the Arbitrum stack, maybe, I don't know, I can take my Robinhood tokenized stock and take it into GMX or AVE on site of Arbitrum 1, but that would necessitate transferability of these tokens. Now, you are not on the Robinhood team, so I don't know if you're privy to these details of the transferability of the Robinhood stock tokens. Do you know anything there?

• 47:40Speaker 03

  So yeah, I don't want to speak for them. I think what Vlad was referring to is in the later phases that that isn't very much their intention. Like they want self-sovereignty. Like so, for example, when you saw Vlad do that like live demo transfer.

• 47:52David Hoffman?

  Mm hmm.

• 47:53Speaker 03

  That was self custody, right? That was not in the contained environment. Like he linked that to Arbiscan. He sent it to somebody else's wallet. So the infrastructure is already there as they clearly showed. And I think what they're going to be planning on is, I think figuring out the rollout, like this is an extremely ambitious thing that they did today. Like, I think they made more announcements today than you typically see from companies in like a two or three year timeline. Like really incredible across so many different components. But I think like, again, and this is sort of goes back to what I was saying about like what I really find so exciting about this. They're really focused on crypto rails for their existing user base. And they're going to focus on the product that will make sense for that user experience. Like when they were talking about the perks, they said, you can do this like two or three taps of the finger.

• 48:37Speaker 03

  And like, that's why I love working with this team where instead of saying, how do we get crypto users to do more stuff on chain? It's how do we get more people who are regular financial traders to be actually just using crypto rails? And again, I think Robinhood is best positioned to be able to do that. And we're extremely excited to work so closely with them.

• 48:55David Hoffman?

  And when people are digesting this news, they're just going to see the take that Robinhood has a chain now. And they're going to look at the correlates between Robinhood and Coinbase and be like, oh, Robinhood has their equivalent of base. And people are also going to look towards Arbitrum as well and and compare that to optimism in the OP stack. It's like, oh, Arbitrum has its equivalent of base now with with Robinhood. But maybe you could also kind of continue that conversation and get into the nuances of the difference. How is it the same and how is it different?

• 49:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. So I think it's, so I, I think it's the same, obviously, in that like we have a huge user base that's using the stack sort of exogenous to the sort of Dow governed chain. And the reality is, is that as we see like WorldCoin, you know, Athena and Securitize are building Converge, also using the Arbitrum Orbit stack. There's plenty of demand for people to have their own chains. And that's really one of Ethereum's killer features is the flexibility and customization for that to happen. I think that there's two distinctions, I would say, sort of between the Arbitrum-Robinhood relationship is, two is like Robinhood, they have crypto users, but their core user base is not crypto. So the overlap between maybe Arbitrum one users and the people who

• 50:03Speaker 03

  are going to be the first users of the Robinhood chain are definitely probably going to be different. There's of course going to be on-chain activity happening from crypto natives on the Robinhood chain as well, I'm sure, but it's an additive user base. The second difference is, you know, I think especially with the expansion of time, like I think Coinbase and Optimus was probably a couple of years ago, Arbitrum one is very entrenched as, you know, I would argue the most credibly neutral, liquid L2, right? Obviously Coinbase and Base is huge, Arbitrum one and Coinbase are probably neck and neck in terms of different metrics, but Arbitrum one has a very strong home if you're looking for a credibly neutral environment. And again, the way we've designed the Arbitrum path is if you want to launch an Arbitrum one and migrate to your own chain, it's seamless, right? That's what we're doing

• 50:46Speaker 03

  with Robinhood. That's what we're sort of pioneering. And I expect that journey to continue to happen for more people. Launch an Arbitrum one, have a great experience, expand your user base, build yourself a mandate to be able to have your own chain, your own user base, and we're going to help work with you through that migration. So that's probably a little bit of the difference, but you know, it's maybe a little more nuanced than some people might appreciate.

• 51:07David Hoffman?

  I think this is going to keep people's attention focused on what exactly Robinhood is going to do on-chain. How fast will the tokenized docs come on-chain? How fast will they spin up their own chain? What does Arbitrum growth look like, you know, downstream of all of this? How does Arbitrum keep this momentum going? What do you guys have next in the chamber to fire?

• 51:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a great question. It's hard to beat this one. But I think that for us, you know, we've had a very, very specific focus and thesis, which is we want to make sure our product can best serve our user base. And that user base is very broad, right? Like if you look at Arbitrum is probably most known for DeFi, both on Arbitrum one and also a lot of the chains that are launching, uh, using the stack, but also basically every gaming chain, for example, that launches uses Arbitrum one. And the reason for that is because like we've had really fast block times, sometimes I use, want to use Stylus because they might want to bring in traditional gaming libraries. So Our goal is still like find use cases that we have conviction in and you know,

• 52:06Speaker 03

  I would say the highest conviction today is probably this merge of TradFi and DeFi into what Steven or CEO likes to just say, finance, like in 10 years, we're all just going to call it finance. That's probably our strongest focus right now, both on Arbitrum one and also across supporting ecosystems that want to launch their own chain and just finding more use cases, right? We're very focused on, you know, traditional RWAs lending, capital markets. You know, I would say Arbitrum doesn't do as well in the meme coin craze as other ecosystems and you know, every ecosystem sort of has their different communities and cultures, but this has kind of been always our focus. And during the DeFi bearer days, we probably went down with it, but you know, as this is all coming back,

• 52:49Speaker 03

  I think Arbitrum's, the excitement, the euphoria for the ecosystem is coming back with it.

• 52:54David Hoffman?

  Yeah, there, I do like that sentiment of like, you know, the OP mainnet are the governance philosophers and the base chain are like consumer crypto and crypto culture. And Arbitrum has always been DeFi and execution optimized. And so it makes sense that that's what Robin Hood chooses because that's what their core product offering is. There's always, there's been a, there's a strong alignment between those two brands.

• 53:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, a hundred percent. I think that people like to say like crypto and like TradFi or fintech are that different. I don't think they are. I think there's a lot of cultural similarities, a lot of cultural elements. And it really all comes down to relationships, teams and obviously product. And yeah, we've been, I think, very focused, I think, we've had a very product focus. I remember, you know, everyone talks about fast block times now. It's like the new hot thing.

• 53:38David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 53:38Speaker 03

  Arbitrum had sub 250 millisecond blocks time since 2021, right? And like for us, that was something we identified really early is going to be a critical thing to expand use cases. That's why Arbitrum did so well with perps as they sort of expanded off of Ethereum mainnet with, you know, GMX, Vertex and others. I think Stylus, which is not as popular today, is going to be that sort of next unlock. Just so in case your listeners aren't aware, Arbitrum's an EVM compatible chain, but Stylus now enables you to launch contracts in Rust, C, C++ fully interoperable. So we're seeing a lot of teams now that Like, you know, fintech is meeting crypto. Privacy and privacy layers are really important on top of this.

• 54:18Speaker 03

  And Stylus enables you to have like privacy optimized because you can just pull in cryptographic libraries like super cheap, right? So we try and stay ahead of the ball in terms of what we think are the features that our users and developers are going to want. And execute on that thesis.

• 54:33David Hoffman?

  I do see privacy becoming increasingly important and discussed. It's starting to crescendo as a topic, especially as TradFi comes on and realizes like, oh no. All of my assets are totally transparent to everyone. And so it's good to see that there is potential path for lots of the Arbitrum stack to also access some of the privacy that we so desperately need.

• 54:53Speaker 03

  A hundred percent. We have like, for example, there's a team like when they launched on day one with Stylus called Renegade Finance. And it's essentially on-chain Dark Pools and it's the coolest thing. And I think they have like more than 30 ZK proofs generated on each transaction. Again, they're doing it on Arbitrum. It's a super cheap transaction because again, they're utilizing Stylus. So we extended the EVM. We, we recognized early, the EVM is the huge mode of the Ethereum ecosystem, but we can do more. And that's like what the flexibility of L2s offers without compromising on the EVM. And we thought that, you know, Stylus is a great, a great combination there.

• 55:24David Hoffman?

  Cool. AJ, congratulations. It's been a very big day. Congratulations.

• 55:27Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 55:28David Hoffman?

  Cheers.