Pod Insights Bankless LIVESTREAM: London Hardfork | EIP1559 GOES LIVE About this episode Join the Bankless and EthHub boys as they livestream during the London Hardfork and watch EIP1559 start burning ETH!
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Resources:
DC Investor on Twitter:
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Eric on Twitter:
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Hudson on Twitter:
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Justin on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/drakefjustin?s=20
Anthony on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/sassal0x?s=20
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Transcript 15,035 words · 8 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Ryan Sean Adams? Which is more accurate, though? So this one says 28 minutes. And we got 34 over here.
0:06 Speaker 01 That one keep being pushed back constantly.
0:11 Speaker 02 There's another one. Watch the burn says.
0:15 Speaker 03 And ethernet's.
0:16 Speaker 02 Thirty seven minutes.
0:19 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think it's gonna be that one right there. Yeah.
0:21 Ryan Sean Adams? You think it's gonna be watch the burn?
0:23 Speaker 02 I mean, they ether scan and watch the burn agree. I don't know. What algorithm they're gonna use. Or no, they don't agree.
0:30 Ryan Sean Adams? All right, we're live on bank. Just follow me on link.
0:34 Speaker 03 Welcome, Justin.
0:36 Speaker 02 Hey, Justin.
0:38 Speaker 04 Yo.
0:40 Speaker 02 Hey.
0:45 Speaker 02 Are you gonna use a well-spun analogy today, Justin?
0:54 Speaker 03 Oh, he's got a rap song.
0:59 Ryan Sean Adams? Oh, Justin.
1:01 Speaker 05 We'll see. We'll see if the fee burn is greater than than the issuance. If it is, then yeah, I think, you know, the analogy is kind of. You know, Ethereum is, you know, standing on its own feet. It's financially independent. Kind of the the income that it has is greater than the expenses. Um, that kind of analogy. But we will see. Um, I mean, it's looking very, very good.
1:27 Speaker 05 Right. Everyone has to pay their taxes.
1:35 Speaker 05 So yeah, my expectation is that the the base fee is going to match roughly the the slow price on gas gas now. At the org, so maybe something like 35 gray. In which case, you know, we'd be at max three. So we'd be burning three times more than the proof of work issuance.
1:54 Speaker 02 Mark three on proof of work? Okay, not on, not on.
2:00 Speaker 05 On proof of steak.
2:01 Speaker 01 Transaction spam just lined up so we can get that that base fee over 110. At least we can just start burning just for a little bit.
2:12 Speaker 03 The ETH pump is on as well.
2:14 Speaker 01 Oh, is it?
2:16 Speaker 03 Yeah, but I don't trust these price movements right now.
2:20 Speaker 02 I mean, keep in mind, Anthony looked at the one minute chart, so.
2:23 Speaker 01 Oh, yes. 2630.
2:27 Speaker 06 I'm selling the news right now.
2:31 Speaker 03 Literally staring at the one minute chart. Oh, my God, it's pumping.
2:33 Speaker 02 Permanent damage to those dope news editors.
2:36 Speaker 01 This is it, guys. Next stop, 10K.
2:41 Speaker 03 Hey, we're always going to 10K. It's always in the Ethereum.
2:44 Speaker 01 We're always going to 10K. It's just a matter of the detours between now and then.
2:48 Speaker 03 Mm hmm, mm hmm.
2:50 Speaker 06 Yeah. And hey, hey, David, I was gonna make a public service announcement. I assume we've like formally kicked off. Are we doing?
2:54 Speaker 02 Yeah, I own mine.
2:56 Speaker 01 Yeah, we are currently live streaming.
2:57 Speaker 03 We are live, yeah.
2:58 Ryan Sean Adams? David, do you want to?
2:59 Speaker 06 Hey, everyone.
3:00 Speaker 01 Yeah, David, you want to kick us off?
3:02 Ryan Sean Adams? Yeah, kick us off, David. Do something formal.
3:05 Speaker 01 We're live. Right.
3:08 Speaker 02 I think it's Friday, but not London. London's not live.
3:13 Ryan Sean Adams? We've got 25 minutes. Yeah. Say, say what you want, DC.
3:17 Speaker 06 Yeah, I was gonna say, because I just tweeted at MetaMask and I was just asking if they've already updated their wallet to reflect the base fee functionality. And so it sounds like my crypto actually responded and said that the functionality is, is, is available if you want to build it yourself. If you want to do a custom build locally, but otherwise, once, once there's a little bit of runtime with 1559, they'll roll it out more broadly. So just stay tuned for that. In the meantime, it's important to remember that EIP 1559 is backwards compatible with all, all existing wallet software. So users don't necessarily have to worry about that kind of compatibility. There may just be some situations where in the interim,
4:00 Speaker 06 you're paying a little bit more for gas until you get a wallet that supports the base fee.
4:05 Ryan Sean Adams? How about MetaMask, DC? So is MetaMask going to roll this out pretty quickly?
4:09 Speaker 06 That's what, that's what I was talking about. It was MetaMask. Yeah, my crypto just responded to my tweet. And I assume that they know. So that's, that's the situation on MetaMask.
4:19 Ryan Sean Adams? Have you guys seen any early looks of what the MetaMask interface is going to look like post EIP 1559?
4:27 Speaker 06 Just remove the gray price.
4:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, I saw it.
4:30 Speaker 04 Yeah, I saw it too. It's pretty similar. There's like just three boxes still, but it's a little different. I forget where I saw it.
4:37 Speaker 03 MetaMask has a has a website for it that I'll get it one sec. I can put it in the chat if Ryan wants to bring it up.
4:45 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'll bring it up.
4:48 Speaker 03 And it shows like a few screenshots there, I think, or there was a video of it.
4:56 Speaker 01 There we go. Wow.
4:57 Speaker 04 I cannot believe you said the pump on.
5:04 Speaker 03 The video is really good. It shows it shows like exactly what it looks like.
5:11 Speaker 06 Oh, nice.
5:12 Speaker 04 Wow, that's coming on on this.
5:14 Speaker 01 Good job, MetaMask.
5:17 Speaker 03 Uh huh. So it's good that they've got dedicated section to it for users.
5:21 Speaker 04 Yeah, this is great.
5:24 Speaker 03 You can probably skip ahead to the the interface. If you just, yeah, it should pop up. That's, yeah, there you go. Kind of like looks like that.
5:35 Speaker 04 Oh, man, so much better.
5:39 Speaker 01 My ads.
5:40 Speaker 04 I feel like this is actually intuitive now.
5:43 Speaker 01 Total.
5:45 Speaker 03 Yeah, if you keep going, it'll show like the advanced settings.
5:49 Speaker 01 Okay, so this is just the basic setting right there.
5:51 Speaker 06 Oh, God, that's so nice.
5:54 Speaker 01 Look at that.
5:55 Speaker 03 Yeah, and then you can drop down the advanced options.
5:57 Speaker 06 I've been dreaming of that.
6:00 Speaker 01 Literally years.
6:01 Speaker 06 I'm gonna miss having Gas Now open on one tab, missing, then entering it in. Transaction doesn't confirm, so I speed it up again.
6:08 Speaker 04 Right.
6:09 Speaker 06 Gonna miss that.
6:10 Speaker 01 This whole entire like two-year process of waiting for EIP 1559 just allows me to uninstall one browser extension finally.
6:19 Speaker 04 It always jumps up right after you send too, because MetaMask is defaulting to that price and then everybody goes one above it. So you send it and you're like, oh, man, then you gotta resend guaranteed every time.
6:33 Speaker 06 And that's like the bidding dynamic that you like hasn't been adequately modeled and may we may see some nice improvements just in the in way in terms of how gas prices move because you don't have that human psychology kicking in where it's like, oh, I need to bid higher than is being suggested so I can get my transaction. So I think it'll be pretty interesting to watch.
6:54 Speaker 01 Oh, MetaMask is telling all the plebs to use 35. I'll use 36.2.
7:00 Speaker 06 Yep.
7:06 Speaker 03 Yeah, I think this is, I think it's really good that they put together a video like this and a whole section on it as well.
7:11 Speaker 01 Yeah, great job.
7:12 Speaker 03 Nice. Yeah, but I mean, the whole point is that mostly users won't have to touch the advanced options anymore like they they currently do like.
7:20 Speaker 06 Yeah.
7:23 Speaker 01 I'm not, if I'm not mistaken, watch the burn.com plus ultrasound dot money plus ether scan block countdown are all pointing to the exact same minute. Okay, cool now.
7:35 Speaker 01 Finally have consensus.
7:37 Speaker 06 It's gonna be 20, 20 minutes.
7:39 Speaker 05 20 ish, 21 minutes.
7:41 Speaker 06 Yeah.
7:42 Speaker 05 Brian, try refreshing ultrasound up money.
7:47 Speaker 01 Hey, hey.
7:47 Speaker 06 Yeah, there you go. 120 blocks.
7:51 Speaker 01 Yep, we have consensus. Justin, do you know who's behind ultrasound money? Does anyone?
7:56 Speaker 07 I don't know.
7:57 Speaker 01 I know.
7:58 Speaker 05 Well, I, I, I was on the Bankas podcast at the very end saying that I bought a domain ultrasound dot money. And I was looking for people to, to go help build the website. So what happened is that about 10 people from the community came forward, you know, many of which were just volunteering their time. And now we have kind of this decentralized team of people just working on this, on this website, uh, which is super, super, super cool.
8:27 Speaker 01 Only in crypto can a meme get full time attention for free.
8:32 Speaker 05 Yes.
8:35 Speaker 05 And yeah, the team is also helping with the Twitter account. So the Ultrasound Money Twitter account, there's a, there's a team of, of people behind that as well.
8:46 Speaker 03 I love the website. It's clean as hell.
8:48 Ryan Sean Adams? The website is super clean. Every few days I get like DMs by the Ultrasound Money Twitter. Like we just like bat signal.
8:59 Ryan Sean Adams? Or he's like, who's in my DMs? Oh, it's Ultrasound Money account. Cool. That's all they send.
9:06 Speaker 03 Oh, man. It's a good meme. Like, I love it. And it triggers people just the right amount too, which makes it a very good meme.
9:13 Speaker 01 I love how just non-aetherian people think it's the stupidest meme ever because they will let you know how stupid they think it is. And I'm just like, Udi, Udi tweeted out yesterday, "The Ultrasound Money meme is the cringiest meme out of the ETH headcamp I've ever seen." And I commented right below it, "Yet here we are." And he keeps on talking about it. Hey, look at the. You guys might know this person. I'm gonna let him into the zoom. Look at the farm down there.
9:39 Speaker 01 Are we all there? The ones that are live on the call? The Ultrasound.
9:44 Speaker 03 On the bottom, Ryan.
9:46 Ryan Sean Adams? Oh, down the bottom? Oh, yes. I, so I, I think this is.
9:49 Speaker 01 Anybody missing? Vitalik's missing.
9:51 Speaker 02 I'm definitely missing.
9:56 Ryan Sean Adams? So what does it take to get on this list? You have to wear the bat signal, right?
9:59 Speaker 01 You have to wear the bat signal and have a lot of followers.
10:02 Ryan Sean Adams? Your profile.
10:02 Speaker 03 Yeah, it's ranked by follower count.
10:06 Speaker 05 So the way it's ranked, I believe, is that the, the first few are ranked by follower count. And then the last few are kind of chosen at random from the community. So every once in a while, if you're just a community member, you should see your profile there.
10:21 Speaker 03 That's a cool way to do it.
10:26 Ryan Sean Adams? Oh, hey, Vitalik, you're here.
10:27 Speaker 03 Oh, it's Vitalik. Hey. For one second, look back and it's Vitalik.
10:36 Speaker 07 Okay, so Eric, Eric, you said, is it too early to drink Mariano? I think you concurred it's not. What do you got? I got a beer.
10:47 Speaker 06 You actually have a beer?
10:49 Speaker 01 I'm with my, I'm with my mate right now. It's 7:15 a.m. But I'll, I'll, I'll join with a beer.
10:56 Speaker 07 All right. Yeah, it's 7:15 and I have a beer, but.
10:59 Speaker 06 I would have a beer, but I've been roped into doing a live stream podcast with Bankless later this afternoon. Want to keep a clear head.
11:09 Speaker 01 Well, I'm gonna have a beer, though.
11:14 Speaker 07 You know, while we're, while we're hanging out, I would be interested to get the perspective of the EIP 1559 authors and how they, how they feel on this day.
11:25 Speaker 06 One first, metallic?
11:31 Speaker 06 How do I, how do I feel on this day? Um, let's see. Again, definitely happy that this thing that's been worked on for like literally almost four years now is finally turning into reality.
11:44 Speaker 07 Yeah.
11:44 Speaker 06 Yeah. Hmm.
11:48 Speaker 06 Okay, so let's see, when, when did that originally IP 1559 paper come in? Let me check resource. It's a long time ago. I think it was like 2019.
12:00 Speaker 07 2019. Wow.
12:03 Speaker 06 I'll be, I'll be check draft position paper on resource pricing.
12:09 Speaker 06 This was August 18. Okay. Yeah. So it's done. Okay. So it was not something we've been working hard on for four years. It's something that we've been working on for three years.
12:19 Speaker 02 That's 2018, that E3 search post on first price auctions.
12:22 Speaker 06 Yeah, yeah, it was. And then I was trying to remember when that is economics and computation conference that Carl and I went to that ended up inspiring the whole thing. It was at that event, I think it was like, you know, it was EC, I guess, at 2018 that we were talking with some of the local economists and they mentioned how first price auctions are evil. And yeah, we were, and then some of them suggested second price auction as a matter of, or was that good? Maybe it was both, but then second price auctions, of course, has to have the problem that they're not collusion resistant.
13:01 Speaker 06 And in Li Sheng was econ language, he could use as the word credible auction, but like in that case credible, credible mechanisms there, there, there's the link come. But credible in this case just means that like immune to collusion between mechanism participants and the mechanism operator, which of course we want.
13:21 Speaker 01 Second price auction simply means like a normal auction, except not the top price gets selected, but the second highest price gets selected, correct?
13:29 Speaker 06 So the, the one who bid the top price wins, but, but they only pay the price of the second.
13:37 Ryan Sean Adams? So Vitalik, what was the Ethereum community's reaction to this research post?
13:43 Speaker 06 Well, as you can see, it's 18 hearts, but I think the, the problem is that there is a, a big difference between being fascinated by something theoretically. And being willing to throw in the energy to actually get it out there in reality.
14:03 Speaker 04 Yeah, we kind of, then we, we brought it to the community, like, I think it was like March of 2019, so it's even been two and a half years since, I mean, as in like try to put it in a medium posts and explain the benefits a little more. And then it seemed like from there it started to pick up some steam.
14:21 Speaker 01 Yeah, there's a lot of the usual suspects there commenting, I saw Philippe.
14:26 Speaker 04 Yeah.
14:26 Speaker 01 Mika, Dan Robinson.
14:31 Speaker 04 Well, it sat for a while. While before, you know, Eric wrote up the EIP, right, Eric? Yeah, I honestly, it was just I was frustrated with the user experience of every day. And like realizing that there's no way we're going to hit mass adoption really with the way that fees were being handled. And I, I don't know, I would always just browse ETH research and somehow I ran into. I don't, it wasn't even this discussion. It was the paper that you were referencing with Talak and I kind of reached out to you and said, you know, hey, why isn't this picking up some steam? And then, yeah, we just kind of, I mean, I believe at the time, just Vitalik and I co-wrote the original EIP.
15:12 Speaker 04 And then after that, it really picked up steam. That's when a lot of different people jumped in. I can't really take much credit at all.
15:18 Speaker 02 Usually when you ask yourself, why isn't this picking up steam? That's a sign for action.
15:23 Speaker 04 Yeah, totally. Yeah, totally. I was like, this seems so obvious. Let's do something about it. And then, yeah, all the other, everyone else I got involved jumped in and kind of took it from there, which was awesome.
15:36 Speaker 06 So Eric.
15:36 Speaker 04 It's funny, it's, oh, sorry, go ahead.
15:38 Speaker 06 This is the original EIP right here that we're looking at?
15:41 Speaker 04 That's the final, but yeah, the original draft was way more than that.
15:47 Speaker 04 It's funny though, right? Like there's all these great ideas out there and they start off very technical and usually like on ETH research. And it really needs to go through this like interesting process of translating that to the community and like why it's beneficial. Like the whole, I mean, it makes sense why this took three years or three and a half years or whatever it did, if you really think about it.
16:11 Speaker 04 Yeah, I mean, there's been.
16:13 Speaker 03 Sorry, I was just gonna say the bulk of the work got done like the last year as well, like since that Gitcoin funding that happened in like June of 2020. That was like a strong signal to like everyone, hey, we want this, we want this now. And it still took a year from there. So, yeah, this is a really big and complex change. I mean, the amount of work that's gone into it is just incredible.
16:32 Speaker 02 Yeah, that's where the multi-sig that kind of got behind it and the community pushing for it was pretty badass.
16:38 Speaker 06 Hmm. Yep. And everyone making a whole bunch of Gitcoin donations and like directing half the matching pool to it at one time.
16:47 Speaker 04 Yeah, I mean, I was just.
16:49 Speaker 01 Reflecting on how much effort has gone into this all the way from, you know, when it was proposed to when it was first being analyzed by Rick Dudley and his team through to kind of, you know, e- even the analysis done by third parties like Tim Roughgarden was also important in the advancement of this. And I think more recently, the work that Tim Baker and, you know, James Hancock and others did to kind of advance this was was significant. And even when Hudson was involved with that process as well. So I think it's been an incredible effort and a long time coming. So I'm excited.
17:27 Ryan Sean Adams? There was a while there where I was worried this wasn't going to happen. I was worried that no one was really going to pick it up and coordinate it and run with it. But this is an example of, you know, sort of the chaotic decentralized nature of the Ethereum community, actually like you're pulling this out and making it work, making it happen. So it, you know, pretty exciting.
17:46 Speaker 07 Brian, you got to remember, we were focused on our like most favorite EIP Prague pal. So we had other priorities.
17:53 Speaker 04 Oh, God. Shut down the stream after that got brought up. Yeah.
17:58 Speaker 03 Spend so much.
17:59 Speaker 02 This Prague pal debate number thirty seven?
18:02 Speaker 07 Yeah. Surprise everyone. We're talking Prague pal.
18:04 Speaker 04 We're actually overdue for a Prague pal debate, guys. So.
18:08 Speaker 02 So do you always start talking about Prague pal after one beer?
18:13 Speaker 07 I just get this thousand yard stare and.
18:16 Speaker 06 So, so when we switch the starts and it turns out that for a start, you actually need to do a little bit of proof of work to grind some merkle root. If you want to like reduce the number of challenges to cut the the data size of a stark down. Just a troll. Everyone can we use Prague pal as the proof of work. That was awesome.
18:37 Speaker 02 Metallica, can you give us the intuition on traditionally why a second price auction is better than a first price auction?
18:45 Speaker 06 Sure, maybe so the economic arguments for why second price auctions are optimal is basically that like imagine that you have some person.
18:55 Speaker 02 And what are we optimizing?
18:58 Speaker 06 We're optimizing for basically a naive algorithm being the being the optimal algorithm for each participant. And so I'll explain the property that second price auctions have that's really nice. Essentially, the like, let's say you value like something that's being auctioned, like let's say we're auctioning, I don't know, in an NFT of an NFT of a Doge or something, right? So let's.
19:29 Speaker 02 A meta meta NFT.
19:31 Speaker 06 Yeah, what would you pay for with MetaMask? So you you value this NFT at $10 and the question is like, what value do you want to bid, right? So if you bid less than $10, then there exists the possibility that let's say you bid X for X is less than 10, then someone else who value who values it somewhere somewhere between X and 10, there is the possibility that they would bid some amount in between X and 10. And so like in that particular case, or basically there is the possibility that you end up you end up not actually getting the item, basically because of this other person ended up getting in with a lower bid.
20:17 Speaker 06 Now, in the case where there is someone who or if you bid greater than 10, then there is the possibility that you win and you end up having to pay more than you or a larger amount than what you actually want, right? And if you bid 10, then like.
20:35 Speaker 06 Basically, uh, so here's the thing that happens. The thing that happens is that your bid and like the exact value of your bid. Um, it does not influence how much you pay. It only influences whether or not you win, right? That that's actually, that's a really important criterion. And when do you wants to win? Well, he wants to win when the amounts that you're gonna pay is actually, yeah. Well, is is less than the amount at which you value this NFT of the NFT of a Doge. Um, so if you bid ten, which is equal to your valuation, then if the uh. The highest bid among everyone else is less than ten, then you win. Um, which and you have to pay an amount less than ten.
21:17 Speaker 06 Uh, but then if uh someone else is willing to pay an amount greater than ten, then you don't win. And in that particular case, you wants to not win because had you won, you would have had to pay an amount greater than ten. Right? So basically, yeah, like the fact that your the amount that you pay it is not depend on your bid. The only thing that you're been determines is like basically whether you get the item or you don't get the item. And you only get the item in those worlds where you have to pay an amount less than you value anyway. Um, like basically means that the simple algorithm of like just bid the amount at which you value the item. Is just going to give you the best results, right? So it's a a very simple uh mechanism.
21:57 Speaker 06 In order to choose your the correct bids, you don't have to um. Know anything about anyone else's preferences. You don't have to go second guessing other people. There isn't like some risk that you get that you guessed wrong and there's some inefficient outcome. Um, so.
22:14 Speaker 02 And it doesn't help if you have, if you have other participants, like if you are ten people and you're trying, like, you can't.
22:21 Speaker 06 Um, actually, yeah.
22:24 Speaker 06 You can a little bit. Um, so this is the the the problem. Like, basically. If you control the top two, uh, the participants with the top two valuations. Um, and then your optimal strategy is not to bid honestly. Your optimal strategy is to bid where the third valuation plus one cents. This is assuming you have like yeah, like, but if you have, like, I think even the slightest amount of information about the probability distribution of the third, then like, I think that ends up like distorting and giving you at least a little bit of extra profit. So
22:57 Speaker 02 If I'm sell, but if I'm selling the NFT, I prefer first price auction, correct?
23:02 Speaker 06 No, you'd actually know. So there is these theorems that are called revenue equivalence theorems that basically show how um, for a wide class of possible auctions, your expected revenue is going to be exactly the same. And this is really weird and spooky. And I actually haven't really yet explain examines the proofs of this, but it's true. Um, so
23:26 Speaker 06 yeah, now, if you want to survive collusion, then like, well, well, basically, well, one thing you could do is instead of a second price auction, you know, you have a case price auction and case price auctions are resistant up to K minus one, including participants. Um, but in general, like, you know, that you hit, you hit upon something really important, which is that auctions are not uh, like infinitely collusion resistant. And that's actually why EIP fifteen fifty nine is not a second price auction. It's a totally different kind of mechanism where that's just a fixed fee.
24:04 Speaker 02 People compare it to a second person's auction, though, right?
24:09 Speaker 06 Um, they, I guess they do, though compare those comparisons are slightly misleading. Like, I think the, the correct statements to make would be that it avoids the inefficiencies of first price auctions, the same way that second price auctions avoid the inefficiency of first price auctions. So like the key property right in the second price auction is like the amount that you bid does not determine what you pay. It just determines if you pay. And in EIP fifteen fifty nine, that's true as well, right? The max fee only determines whether you get in. It doesn't determine what you pay.
24:47 Speaker 01 DC, when Vitalik was talking about if you want to buy this NFT for $10, he was talking about your CryptoPunk hoodie.
24:53 Speaker 04 Yeah, no, no one's going to be buying that one anytime soon. So good luck. Although I do want to, you know, I think there's a common misconception around some of the NFT stuff and people are like, oh, Ethereum is too expensive. So that's why these NFTs cost a lot, but realistically.
25:09 Speaker 06 What has happened with some of these NFT mechanisms is they're using a gas auction as the primary distribution method, which is suboptimal in a lot of ways. And I think you're going to see more and more projects move away from that. But basically, rather than selecting the buyers through other, some other mechanism, like say a Dutch auction or something else, they were basically letting people kind of bid up gas and whoever gets the transaction first wins. So I, you know, I, I, I've never liked that distribution model because it favors people who, who know how to use the network a little bit better, or might be able to set up bots to get transactions in faster and things like that. So I, I think that's going to, that model will slowly kind of phase out as we move forward.
25:49 Speaker 02 Because you don't have, so let's look at time windows that are only kind of, there's a frenzy going on. Does this change? Do the mechanisms change at all really? Or does it revert to the public first price?
26:03 Speaker 07 It reverts to a public first price when there is a frenzy going on. Well, it reverts to a public first price for the subset of users that really care about being included quickly.
26:12 Speaker 02 Right.
26:13 Speaker 07 If you're, if you're okay with waiting two minutes in the extreme cases, then you can just continue to kind of live in the normal world. And you just have to wait a bit more.
26:22 Speaker 02 Does it reduce the chance of frenzies? Because there's going to be less of like the, the psychological model of I need to click the button regardless, like just for end users.
26:33 Speaker 07 Yeah, that, that, that's definitely one reason why it reduces frenzies. Another important reason why it reduces frenzies is that transactions that get included quickly are less likely to fail. And so you're less likely to need to resend. A third reason why it reduces frenzies is just the fact that if there exists a burst of many transactions, like, like N times block size transactions, instead of it needing N blocks to clear, it needs N over two blocks to clear.
26:59 Speaker 02 So if it is frenzy resistant, so in some cases, would that actually lead to slightly less gas? Less fees for the end users?
27:09 Speaker 07 Interesting. I, I guess, I mean, unless of course, like in
27:13 Ryan Sean Adams? To demands takes over and like we just get even more users.
27:19 Ryan Sean Adams? We are, we are less than five minutes out, I think, depending on which clock you are monitoring. So on EtherScan, we are close to four minutes, just under four minutes. On ultrasound.money, we are at about five minutes and 20 seconds. So this is fast approaching. Hudson, since you've lived through many of these hard forks, sir, how do we know if this is successful? Like, what, like, what happens when the hard fork happens?
27:43 Speaker 07 That's a funny question. First, first, hi Trent, let's all say hi to Trent.
27:49 Speaker 04 Hi Trent.
27:50 Ryan Sean Adams? Hey Trent. Hey, I'm good to just sit back and listen to all you guys talk about nonsense. So keep going.
27:59 Speaker 04 Look at those flowing locks over there. Wow.
28:01 Speaker 07 So basically, right now, at least, so I used to run the core developer meetings every other week. And during hard forks, we would, before there was like the proliferation of all these live streams, some of the time, there would be just a private Zoom call with some of the core devs.
28:20 Speaker 07 Or if something went wrong, there would be a Zoom call with the core devs. That still happens. So we'll know if something went wrong because there'll be like a few people who know where to go for the information, like me, Trent, Danny and Tim, and just be leaking stuff to Twitter slowly over time. That's generally how it goes down.
28:38 Ryan Sean Adams? So if some of you guys suddenly disappear from this call, then that's probably bad news? Is that what you're saying, Hudson?
28:44 Speaker 07 Yes, pretty much. So yeah, no, so but for real though, like, it's pretty organic. And usually during times of emergencies that we just kind of, the core dev just kind of come together and then just troubleshoot and fix it. And it's pretty straightforward. There's no one usually panicking or anything like that. It's really professional.
29:03 Ryan Sean Adams? How do the core devs typically like feel before a fork? Is it just? What a question. But they're like, look, man, I, I'm just looking at this clock, this countdown and I'm, you know, get a little nervous, to be honest, you know, things could, you never know. But I'm not a core dev. How do they feel about the, these things?
29:21 Speaker 07 DannyVitalik, what do y'all think, or Trent, or anyone else? I don't know, because I'm not a core dev, but I think they're pretty nervous.
29:29 Speaker 02 Medium, they usually go well. Everyone's definitely watching, because that might require action. But, you know, I don't think anyone's as well.
29:41 Speaker 01 Alright guys, we have six blocks left, so I'm gonna go ahead and cut to sponsors real quick.
29:50 Speaker 03 I think all this money is a bit slow. There's like four blocks or something now.
29:55 Speaker 04 Yeah, we're almost there.
29:57 Speaker 03 Oh man, this is, geez.
30:00 Ryan Sean Adams? It's happening.
30:01 Speaker 03 It's happening, guys.
30:03 Ryan Sean Adams? Four blocks remaining.
30:04 Speaker 04 Anthony, how does the 30 second chart look? Are we pumping?
30:10 Speaker 01 We have, since Anthony last commented, the ETH pump is on, we have dumped.
30:15 Speaker 07 Yes, actually.
30:16 Speaker 06 As for convention.
30:19 Speaker 03 It's Bitcoin, it's ruining our party.
30:21 Ryan Sean Adams? Two blocks, two blocks, two blocks remaining.
30:24 Speaker 04 I wonder who's gonna get the first burn transaction.
30:27 Speaker 07 Alright.
30:31 Speaker 04 Alright, here we go.
30:31 Ryan Sean Adams? One block remaining, guys. It's happening. EIP 1559, history. 1559, excuse me.
30:39 Speaker 03 1559.
30:42 Ryan Sean Adams? 1559.
30:43 Speaker 04 What is 1559?
30:45 Ryan Sean Adams? 559.
30:47 Speaker 03 There we go, it's done.
30:50 Ryan Sean Adams? This is it.
30:50 Speaker 03 You scanned, got it.
30:52 Speaker 05 Boom. The gas limit has doubled, and the gas use is 100% as expected. So I'm expecting it to be 100% gas use for the next roughly five minutes, and the base view, the base gas price will...
31:06 Speaker 02 But we might see the gas go down if miners didn't reset their target, so that'll be interesting to watch.
31:14 Speaker 05 So we started a one-way base gas price, and we should be increasing to, I don't know.
31:21 Speaker 03 Yeah, the next block is 1.12.
31:24 Speaker 06 If you guys...
31:26 Ryan Sean Adams? Looks like the gas limits are going down.
31:29 Speaker 02 Yeah, call your miner, call your local miner.
31:33 Speaker 01 Ryan, skip forward to the next two blocks.
31:37 Speaker 04 There's a little arrows there.
31:38 Speaker 01 Oh, okay.
31:40 Speaker 06 It's always fun watching Ryan navigate.
31:43 Speaker 01 I don't look block by block, guys.
31:45 Speaker 07 I'll go ahead and monitor all the core dev channels and websites to see what's going wrong, if anything.
31:52 Speaker 06 Burnt fees, point zero four ETH, that's nice to see.
31:55 Speaker 07 I'm seeing red on node monitor, but I forgot how to look at this.
32:00 Speaker 01 So we have.
32:02 Speaker 07 Yeah. Do you remember how to read fork mon?
32:04 Speaker 02 Uh, let me see.
32:07 Speaker 06 Hey, good question, guys. How much bigger is the elastic max size versus what the previous gas limit? I actually don't know.
32:16 Speaker 05 It's double.
32:17 Speaker 06 Double. It's double what the what the normal is. Okay.
32:21 Speaker 05 So currently, the the gas target is 15 million and the gas limit, so the total max size of a block is 30 million. Of course, that depends who's voting what, you know, it might take a little bit of time to stabilize. Uh, if some if some pools are pointing at a lower.
32:38 Speaker 06 Brian, go to watch the burn.
32:43 Speaker 01 There, that's real nice. Oh, it's dead.
32:48 Speaker 06 The way you said that.
32:50 Speaker 01 Freaky, man.
32:54 Speaker 01 We all know how I feel about ETH. It's not a secret.
32:58 Speaker 06 Yeah, burn it.
32:59 Speaker 01 All right, let's burn it, guys.
33:03 Speaker 06 Oh, man.
33:05 Speaker 01 So do uh, do blocks get new data or is it the transactions themselves? Cause I'm.
33:14 Speaker 05 Both.
33:15 Speaker 01 Both?
33:17 Speaker 05 Oh, yeah, yeah, there's a new transaction type, which.
33:20 Speaker 01 I'm on set block latest. I see base fee per gas. This is new.
33:25 Speaker 05 So I'm trying to find EtherScan had a label and I'm trying to find what the first actual new transaction type is, what the first transaction is. But uh, there's a little label. On the on the far right, I think they had it, but I haven't found any yet.
33:41 Speaker 02 Oh, so nobody.
33:43 Speaker 05 There there might be one, I just haven't found it in a block yet, but basically, everything is burning. Eve as expected, that'll happen for all legacy transactions going forward.
33:53 Speaker 02 And right now, the blocks are completely full, right?
33:57 Speaker 06 Yes. Um, is uh, is watch the burns dot com still like live somewhere else or like, as the site's been not working for.
34:06 Ryan Sean Adams? It's down for me.
34:08 Speaker 04 Ether Ether scan shows the gas burn per block, but.
34:12 Speaker 06 Right, right, right.
34:13 Speaker 04 Yeah.
34:14 Speaker 06 Well, it's that sounds seems like the sort of thing that ultrasound dot money should have in there somewhere.
34:23 Speaker 05 It should be coming. I think it's getting de-dosed as well.
34:26 Speaker 06 Yeah.
34:29 Speaker 01 The burnt fees every single block keep on going up. So the most recent block has point one five ether burned and it's been going up every single block since the hard fork.
34:39 Speaker 06 Oh, wow. The base is already up to six point five gray.
34:43 Speaker 04 Think I don't think miners have the gas limit signaled properly, right?
34:47 Speaker 07 I don't. That's what I'm starting to see from other channels.
34:50 Speaker 02 Yeah.
34:51 Speaker 07 Uh, we were working on that yesterday.
34:53 Speaker 05 Is live for me. We've burned zero point eight seven each.
34:58 Speaker 06 Oh, my God, look at this.
34:59 Ryan Sean Adams? Wow.
35:00 Speaker 06 Oh, wow. Almost a folly is. Oh, ether chain slash burn. Okay.
35:04 Ryan Sean Adams? Someone prepared for this.
35:04 Speaker 02 Yeah, ether chain has a burn. Trick as well.
35:09 Speaker 03 We've done one eighth now according to I'll just see I'm only just updated on my my end.
35:15 Speaker 05 And if you zoom out a little bit and um, you'll be able to see the burn leaderboard.
35:21 Ryan Sean Adams? Wow.
35:21 Speaker 05 With my new favorite website.
35:26 Speaker 01 I'm pretty sure that means I have all of the ether left.
35:32 Speaker 03 There's no ether left, guys.
35:34 Speaker 01 I've got it all.
35:35 Speaker 06 Wow, this is a supply shock.
35:40 Speaker 03 Hyper gig ultrasound money confirmed.
35:43 Speaker 06 Okay.
35:45 Speaker 07 Hey, if I if I name and shame on stream pools that are like pushing the limit down, I wonder if they'll react.
35:53 Speaker 06 Let's try. Maybe.
35:55 Speaker 07 Oh, man. We think F2 pool and Nano pool, two miners, Hive on and Spark pool are all pushing it down.
36:03 Speaker 06 The gas limit?
36:04 Speaker 02 As in, they kept they kept their default. They kept they kept the number likely the same as.
36:10 Speaker 07 I actually have a few of them on chat. I'm gonna go quiet.
36:13 Speaker 06 Do you have any estimations as to how long it's gonna take them to get that updated?
36:17 Speaker 02 You can do it live with an RPC call, so you don't have to actually recycle your node, which is good. Uh, but it just depends on if they if and when they do it.
36:28 Speaker 06 So, so. Negative 100% gas target.
36:33 Speaker 04 Someone there's someone out there has, um, I forget. I thought it was Etherchain has a site that tells you what they're signaling by pool, but I can't find it right now.
36:43 Speaker 06 Wow, almost three ETH burnt. Yeah, thing is, this shouldn't be happening with like a regular, uh, we're like in normal situation, like. If blocks continue to be full.
36:57 Speaker 04 Right. Well, there's issuance as well.
37:00 Speaker 06 Right. Well, if the situation normalizes and blocks will go down to being half full, but on the other hand, the fee will, uh, go even higher. Oh, interesting. ETHstats.net. Let's see what's up there. Um.
37:16 Speaker 05 So the fee then has overtaken the, um, the non-burnt rewards. Oh, sorry, non-burnt fees.
37:24 Speaker 06 Tip?
37:26 Speaker 05 The tip, sorry. Yeah, that's the technical.
37:29 Speaker 06 Wait, wait, where is the, does EtherScan show the tip? Or, oh, yes, it does. Yeah.
37:33 Speaker 05 Yes.
37:35 Speaker 06 I see it now, yeah. Oh, and then, hmm.
37:42 Speaker 05 So my expectation, which is very different from Hasu's, is that we're gonna burn about 80%. Hasu believes we're only gonna burn 30%, but we're already above 50% at this point.
37:53 Speaker 01 You hear that, Hasu?
37:54 Speaker 06 What was Hasu's reasoning?
37:57 Speaker 06 What was Hasu's reasoning for the 30%?
38:01 Speaker 05 I think what he did is that he tried to analyze what is MEV and use that as a as a minimum for kind of the tip, as a lower bound. But one of the things that we've had...
38:19 Speaker 06 Yeah, okay.
38:20 Speaker 05 Why? Why? That makes sense, I guess, that the MEV is part of the tip, right? But it's also split with flashbots.
38:26 Speaker 06 Why not? Why does it make sense that it would be for MEV to be part of the tip? What's their reasoning?
38:34 Speaker 05 Well, the reasoning is that the, you know, when you pay for ordering, you know, you're not gonna pay extra to the base fee so that you are the top position. If you wanna do an arbitrage, you wanna be at the very top.
38:50 Speaker 06 Right, but that's only a small portion... That's only a small portion of transactions, right?
38:58 Speaker 06 Oh, I see, but I guess that...
39:00 Speaker 05 Yes, but a very high portion of the fees.
39:03 Speaker 06 I see.
39:05 Speaker 06 Hmm, I see, I see. So, yeah, I guess the question is like, does Flashbot just eat that up? Yeah, I don't know. Well, another question, I guess, is are they paying for the war against each other? Or are they paying to get 100% chance of being included in the block instead of 90%? I guess there's some of both.
39:29 Speaker 01 Where's the tip field in the block on EtherScan? I don't see it.
39:35 Speaker 06 But if you see...
39:36 Speaker 05 It's in the block rewards.
39:37 Speaker 06 Yeah, I see how it says 2 plus some blah blah blah, plus blah blah blah, the second number.
39:42 Speaker 01 Ah, that's the tip, okay.
39:44 Speaker 06 Yeah.
39:45 Speaker 01 Those are healthy tips. Nice.
39:48 Speaker 03 We should stabilize over time.
39:50 Speaker 06 Wow. Okay. So cumulative fee burn 8.28, last one is 0.828. That's kind.
40:01 Speaker 04 So far, there aren't many wallets that have enabled, that people are using that have this functionality enabled. So that might be throwing things off a bit.
40:09 Speaker 03 Yeah.
40:12 Speaker 06 I think we're under target for the first time or close to the first time. Block 41 is only 23% full.
40:22 Speaker 02 There were a few, there are a few, and I think one was, someone's mining empty blocks.
40:28 Speaker 01 So remind us, what happens when we are not full? When a block is not full, how do things adjust?
40:35 Speaker 05 The base gas price goes down.
40:41 Speaker 02 Yeah, when you're below the 50% target.
40:44 Speaker 05 The base fee per gas, I call it the base gas price. It's just only three words as opposed to four words. And it reuses the gas price concept that we're already familiar with.
40:54 Speaker 01 Okay, so for this one, plus 46% gas target, 73% full. So the block is 73% full, which means it's over 50%, which means the next block is going to get bigger. And base fee is going to go up.
41:11 Speaker 01 Oh, that's right, right?
41:12 Speaker 02 David, if you click, if you check out that, that link in the chat, it shows how quickly the base fee per gas can rise and fall over time.
41:22 Speaker 01 The chain dot burn?
41:24 Speaker 02 No, no, it's a tweet thread.
41:26 Speaker 01 Oh, your tweet. Okay.
41:30 Speaker 02 Or go to the Google Sheet, and it really helps to show how quickly things can spike. And I can even change it live.
41:41 Speaker 01 How about that at ETH Pump, Anthony?
41:45 Speaker 03 It did exactly what I thought it would. This is the same thing that happened after staking went live. The price just like dumped.
41:53 Speaker 03 Yeah, man, markets are just like stupid.
41:59 Ryan Sean Adams? So explain this for us, Trent. What are we looking at here? Sure. So I just increased the the variable. So
42:08 Ryan Sean Adams? basically over, let's say, five minutes, the gas price goes from, or we can even drop it down even lower. So this is probably the time scale we're looking at now is close. But over
42:23 Ryan Sean Adams? just a few minutes, it increases 30 times. And then this is when there's successively full blocks. So that's the blue line going up and then the red line going down. It drops a little bit quicker if there are blocks which are less than 50% full.
42:38 Speaker 04 And then if you have, you know,
42:43 Speaker 04 15 minutes of full blocks, you know, or over 50% full blocks successively 15 minutes, it was spike up to almost 7,000 way. So you can see how this would really quickly smooth out any of these crazy demand spikes that we've seen recently with NFT drops and back in the day ICOs. So probably will never actually get that high. Congestion will be transferred to later blocks. So Metamask just tweeted that they're pushing updates to the extension mobile right now. So Metamask support should be coming.
43:23 Ryan Sean Adams? So what do you guys?
43:24 Speaker 01 A couple of hours for everyone to get up to speed. It sounds like some wallets need to do some tweaking, some miners need to do some tweaking.
43:31 Speaker 02 But the base fee, sorry.
43:33 Ryan Sean Adams? Oh, good. Go ahead.
43:34 Speaker 02 I would say the base fee for gas did get to approximately where we were for just the price of transaction before the fork, right? So it's like 30, which is expected and good.
43:48 Speaker 06 Well, that while it's expected, I think that, well, right. Oh, right, right. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. So and I guess we're around the target now. So, yeah.
43:59 Speaker 07 Someone just sent me like a private message that I've never on like a DM on Discord with the Pope bot and like the other streams Pope code.
44:12 Speaker 07 Yeah, the East Saker stream code, so I have it now.
44:18 Speaker 02 You're gonna break Pope if you uh if you share it here.
44:23 Speaker 07 Here we go.
44:24 Speaker 01 For all the people in.
44:24 Speaker 01 Santiago. Go ahead. Sorry, Santiago Paladino from OpenSublin asks if we know the percentage of 1559 transactions entering the network. We do not, right? Not just.
44:39 Ryan Sean Adams? It's a great question. Can we figure that out? I um while we're doing that, this is the ultrasound.
44:47 Speaker 06 Oh, interesting. The first transaction, I typed you a transaction on me. I just checked it and then.
44:53 Speaker 02 Yeah, I just put that in the chat.
44:57 Speaker 02 I think that's the very first one. I was scanning through blocks. But yeah, you'll see it says transaction type two, E F P one five five nine. And then if you if you're looking in blocks, there's a little indicator on the far right that'll show. So somebody, I don't know how many wallets are supporting this directly. So somebody may have crafted this themselves.
45:18 Speaker 06 Nice.
45:19 Speaker 07 Who's Nick dot Eath or Nenek?
45:22 Speaker 02 Whoever he is, he's famous.
45:24 Speaker 01 He's on the stream.
45:26 Speaker 03 Nick, oh, Nenek, yeah. Nick dot Eath is Nick Johnson, Nenek. Yeah, I don't know who that is.
45:32 Speaker 06 Yeah, I don't know. So how long do you think? Because we do expect to see some effect on hash rate, most likely, right? How long do you think it will take for us to realize that?
45:52 Speaker 06 Hudson, any intuition based on previous hard forks?
45:57 Speaker 07 No.
46:00 Speaker 03 It's gonna be hard to tell because like there's MEV to consider as well, right? These miners are still getting their their MEV and stuff.
46:06 Speaker 07 Well, actually, are they? Because did MEV get update?
46:11 Speaker 03 Uh, I have no idea.
46:15 Speaker 01 I mean, MEV guess had to up.
46:17 Speaker 02 Otherwise, they would not.
46:20 Speaker 07 Oh, yeah, that's true.
46:21 Speaker 02 Anything else, right? But um, yeah, I'm actually surprised there. I thought there would have been, you know, more uh 1559 type transactions since most of the transactions happening are um, you know, bots, arbers, things like that. They they want to use 1559, right? They don't want to pay um the full amount with the old type transactions if they don't have to.
46:49 Speaker 07 Uh, I think Greg from Chain Safe was crafting some transactions to test. I don't know what the status of that is, though. Let me check.
47:04 Ryan Sean Adams? It's interesting to see the leaderboard. We've got uh Gunswop burning the most ETH so far. Actually, I don't know. What's this top address? They're they're number two.
47:13 Speaker 01 Chain link.
47:14 Ryan Sean Adams? Is this chain link?
47:15 Speaker 07 Maybe.
47:16 Speaker 01 Probably.
47:17 Ryan Sean Adams? Uh, and then we've got some NFT.
47:20 Speaker 01 We have our first block with one full ether being burned. That's pretty cool.
47:24 Ryan Sean Adams? Hot.
47:25 Speaker 02 That first one is uh the London token, London gift.
47:31 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah, some like NFT drop or something.
47:37 Speaker 01 Well, the all the people that are in the YouTube talking about the ETH dump, we have to remember now that when ETH dumps, more ether gets burnt. So it's literally bullish selling.
47:49 Speaker 03 That was one of my best tweets. I'm proud of that one.
47:52 Speaker 04 And just to put these numbers in context here for for people who are tuning in. So we're looking at these burns and we're getting into the one ETH and it obviously fluctuates quite a bit from block to block. But this is this is offsetting or partially offsetting issuance, which I think is still at two ether per block. So just to give people an idea of how that's working.
48:15 Speaker 01 I'd like to fast forward and see some equilibrium show up.
48:25 Speaker 01 Well, I think it's an interesting.
48:26 Speaker 06 Interesting dynamic and it's hard to say how it would have played out otherwise, but effectively the ether that is being burned is ether that would have gone to miners otherwise, more or less. And what miners typically do is they sell that ether that they collect. And so now it's being burned. So that alone is an interesting kind of supply offset. Even in periods where it isn't deflationary. And I know we've talked about, all of us have talked a lot about how, you know, we don't expect this to be fully deflationary at this point, although under periods of heavier usage, we expect that it would be or could be. But it's really when you pair this with proof of stake, with reduced issuance, dramatically lower issuance, that it becomes more interesting in that regard.
49:11 Speaker 01 All of the on ultrasound money, all the ETH burn is just ether that's not being sold by.
49:19 Speaker 05 So right now, I guess we're in a period of monetary foreplay and the reason is because we know that Ethereum, that ETH will become ultrasound money almost certainly because right now we're at MAC4 or a bit less than MAC4, meaning that what we're burning is roughly four times the proof of stake issuance. So we can foresee, it's very easy to project that once we remove the proof of work issuance, we will be ultrasound. So right now is a foreplay period.
49:52 Speaker 01 Or a funny period. Six months of foreplay, oh my gosh.
49:58 Speaker 06 Foreplay, foresee MAC4, I see what you did there.
50:03 Speaker 07 Are we still hot?
50:03 Speaker 03 When merge, well Danny, you tell us when merge.
50:09 Speaker 03 You're muted by the way.
50:10 Speaker 02 Yeah, DC and Trent tell us when merge.
50:15 Speaker 06 I can always spat out a random date.
50:18 Speaker 03 August 6th, 2021?
50:23 Speaker 01 Let's just do it right now. Can we just merge right now? Let's just go for it. Let's just do it.
50:28 Speaker 06 Yeah, yeah, like I talked to this influencer on Twitter and he's saying that Ethereum could be great if we just dubbed all our research and adopted the tangle. How about we just adopt the tangle?
50:39 Speaker 02 Did we kill EtherScan?
50:40 Ryan Sean Adams? Vitalik has invoked the tangle.
50:42 Speaker 02 I think we had EtherScan to death.
50:45 Speaker 07 I think it to EtherScan.
50:47 Ryan Sean Adams? It's back. Okay, it's back.
50:49 Speaker 06 Yeah.
50:49 Speaker 01 Somebody on YouTube says, as if any of you guys have ever had foreplay, just FYI, we're getting pissed.
50:54 Speaker 06 Whoa.
50:57 Ryan Sean Adams? That's why you don't read the YouTube comments, dude.
50:59 Speaker 01 Oh, I'm addicted to them, man.
51:01 Speaker 07 Hey, you ever heard that? I've had so much foreplay, I do five play now.
51:10 Speaker 01 I've been living in the future.
51:11 Speaker 06 Guys, the stream is gonna get censored by YouTube.
51:14 Speaker 02 Is this made for kids?
51:21 Speaker 06 No, it's not. The answer is...
51:23 Speaker 02 One of the things that I'm now most interested is seeing what projects do with base fee op code. There is seriously so much to do.
51:34 Speaker 02 I remember 2017, I had to hard code, so the maker oracles for a single collateral die, I had to hard code a maximum GUE price. There was redundant, you know, checking ETH gas station, checking other things to be able to, you know, have the relayers send transactions to the blockchain to update the oracles. That is mostly obsolete now. It, you know, you can pretty much rely on the base fee to make sure that, you know, any automated transactions that you want to do,
52:17 Speaker 02 that they get mined properly and swiftly. And as well, they don't, they shouldn't...
52:27 Speaker 02 You know, mess up with the rest of the like, if you're a normal, normal user, even if I had to send, you know, a very high priority transaction, and even if a lot of people do, that shouldn't mess up with, you know, a normal person. It's like you can still use a, a normal gas price and be sure that you'll be included fairly quickly. It's a plus, you know, we're going to have gas synthetics and other things. I don't know, really excited about that. Oh, and we don't have refunds anymore, pretty much.
53:01 Speaker 06 Oh, yeah.
53:03 Speaker 02 Gas token go to zero? Oh, that's a good one. Look at the price of a cheat token and the others.
53:09 Speaker 06 Ryan, Ryan, click that link that Trent just put in the chat. It's really cool.
53:15 Speaker 06 Colors.
53:16 Speaker 02 Yeah, this is the first two analogs dashboard. I, I'm, I'm sure we're going to see like dozens of these over the next few days. There's people putting out richer and richer content. But yeah, these are really nice to start with.
53:28 Speaker 06 What are we looking at here, Trent?
53:31 Speaker 02 Uh, I, I actually don't know. I just clicked it, but I can tell.
53:36 Speaker 02 I can tell you that the, the graph on the right is showing the change in base fee over time. And you can see it's rising pretty smoothly.
53:45 Speaker 06 Nice.
53:46 Speaker 02 As demand changes.
53:50 Speaker 02 Uh, yeah, I don't know what this one on the left is, but I'm sure it's full of useful information.
53:57 Speaker 06 So Trent, not to put you on the spot, but I'm curious, um, what's your thought is with respect to, um, so I know we talked a lot about a lot of the discussion has been about getting to this point with London going live. And there's been discussion around kind of prioritizing a lot of the ETH one dev now focusing primarily on the merge. Where do you think the consensus is among the core dev teams at this stage around that?
54:24 Speaker 02 Are you asking for timing?
54:26 Speaker 06 No, I'm just asking what's your opinion? Do you feel like there's agreement that yeah, we should focus on it primarily right now? Or are we looking at probably another hard fork with some additional features and then doing that? What's your take?
54:39 Speaker 02 Yeah, I mean Danny is probably the expert to ask, so you can follow up with him after this, after my response. But um definitely in the last few weeks, uh once London was mostly, we had the initial releases and we were in the midst of getting, you know, libraries updated and you know, just the ecosystem generally ready. I think everybody came to the rough agreement that we wouldn't be pushing for another feature fork. At the end of the year, the difficulty bomb was only pushed to December, so there will be some sort of,
55:11 Speaker 02 there will be backwards incompatible upgrade, just to push that until the merge, if the merge doesn't happen before then. Uh but I don't think it's in anyone's roadmap to do something similarly large as London or even,
55:29 Speaker 02 you know, a percentage of that, it'll probably just be a maintenance for,
55:34 Speaker 02 I don't anticipate anybody trying to get significant changes specifically so we can focus on ETH1 teams,
55:43 Speaker 02 preparing for, interrupt with uh the consensus clients and looking forward towards some merge. I agree with. So I agree with all of that, except for the fact that uh no one will push for things to be, if we do, just delay the bomb in December, if the merge isn't ready by then, someone's gonna try to push something in there. Um and I, I would estimate maybe something small gets in there or something that was already, already planned, but uh yeah, I don't, I don't know. Yeah, this is, this is the perennial issue of um, even if it's a maintenance fork, there's always something in waiting in the wings, some neat little upgrade or some.
56:23 Speaker 06 Optimization that can always go in, but it's going to require a lot of trigger discipline not to
56:31 Speaker 06 not to add anything in there.
56:33 Speaker 02 But I can definitely say.
56:34 Speaker 06 Like, there's even optimizations to fifteen fifty-nine, I know, would be really interesting to see. But, yeah.
56:40 Speaker 02 Yeah, I mean, sentiment definitely is strong from many of the core devs and most of the client teams that like they really want to get the merge done, and this is the big unit of work next. Obviously, all the E2 teams are pretty on board, but even talking to all of the execution layer clients, AKA E2 clients, people are, people are pretty game.
57:03 Speaker 06 Yeah.
57:03 Speaker 02 Excited to push it forward.
57:04 Speaker 06 Yeah. Also, the whole reorg media drama, I think, is also putting even more wind into the sails of doing doing more merge work soon.
57:17 Speaker 01 A question from the YouTube, why is it called London?
57:22 Speaker 06 Because the hard forks are being, are now being named in order of devcon cities. So the previous one was Berlin, which is devcon zero. This is London, which is devcon one. So the next one will be Shanghai, which is devcon two.
57:38 Speaker 02 And if, if devcons keep getting delayed, or if we do more than one fork a year, we're going to outpace ourselves.
57:47 Speaker 07 Do we just start making weird names again?
57:49 Speaker 04 Yeah, we can always go back to weird shit like tangerine whistle.
57:58 Ryan Sean Adams? Was that a, was that a real?
57:59 Speaker 01 That was a real one, right?
58:02 Speaker 07 I was actually.
58:03 Speaker 06 That remark was as spurious as the dragon.
58:09 Speaker 07 Yeah, the, actually, the names, you know how names used to get decided before Ethereum got bigger was just the all core devs chat? Like, we would just be like, what do we want to name? And everyone's like, I don't know. And then Martin Swinday just came up with just bullshit, and we said, okay.
58:29 Ryan Sean Adams? You can bullshit. Eric, how has mainstream's coverage been of this?
58:37 Speaker 04 Yeah, I was actually yesterday CNBC put out a pretty good, um, pretty good piece on it. I thought, which, you know, it's kind of shocking to see mainstream have decent coverage of this stuff. But it'll be interesting to see what comes out today. If it gets any coverage on TV as well. But I guess I've been decently surprised so far. Um, I mean, it's, it's a pretty hard concept, I think, for mainstream to cover and like translate to like their readers, right? Because most readers probably don't even understand the fee mechanism we had before. So I think most of them have been approaching it like, you know, why is this good for investors and focusing on the burn and less of some of the other benefits?
59:20 Speaker 04 But at least yesterday we had a good start. I appreciate that they, the, um, the CNBC author actually reached out to people in the community, which was nice. Instead of like asking Bitcoin maximalist what they think of EIP 1559, which is the typical path.
59:40 Speaker 03 What do they think, Eric, of 1559? I think they're really happy about it. I saw that was celebrating, um, you know, giving us words of encouragement.
59:48 Speaker 01 Saying, hey, congratulations Ethereum community.
59:53 Speaker 01 Really, really happy for you guys.
59:55 Speaker 03 Yeah, it was, it was weird to see them so nice.
59:58 Speaker 04 Right. It looks like we actually just got another article on CNBC's main page. So it'll be interesting to see how this is covered throughout the day.
1:00:05 Speaker 03 It's trending number one above Bitcoin.
1:00:09 Ryan Sean Adams? Right. That's what Bitcoin maxies were so impressed about, right?
1:00:13 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:00:15 Speaker 01 I'm just waiting for them to have palm. On during lunch to talk about.
1:00:20 Speaker 01 Palm comments on EIP 1559.
1:00:24 Speaker 01 I've been bullish this entire time, says Anthony Pompliano.
1:00:29 Speaker 04 Apparently, um, Reuters follows Anthony's one minute chart because it says Ethereum up major upgrade activated ether stays lower.
1:00:41 Speaker 03 Hey, it did drop a little bit on the one minute chart, right?
1:00:46 Speaker 02 Those poor dopamine receptors.
1:00:50 Speaker 03 Man, my whole life is dopamine. I have six monitors in front of me.
1:00:56 Speaker 03 If I step away from my computer, I start collapsing.
1:01:02 Ryan Sean Adams? Yeah, this is a good article on CVC here. That's great.
1:01:05 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:01:06 Ryan Sean Adams? It was, it was just like last week, we're seeing like a lot of conflation in mainstream media with like, um, it's hard to separate ETH 2 and staking and EIP 1559. We wanted to kind of smush it all together in the same upgrade. So, um, I guess it's just the Ethereum narrative and, you know, deployment schedule around this stuff is more complicated than the happening. You know, like Bitcoiners have it very easy in, in that respect. Like every four years, there's one big thing that's happening. And like, everyone knows what it is entirely predictable. Uh, it's a bit harder to parse apart the, the Ethereum story if you've been only semi-following it.
1:01:45 Speaker 02 It's easier to plan a big party. That article is by, uh, Mackenzie Segalos. She's the one during, uh, I retweeted during Bitcoin, Bitcoin Miami. That, uh, she really succinctly described what was going to happen with the theory. She's like really well informed.
1:02:04 Ryan Sean Adams? That's awesome.
1:02:05 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:02:08 Speaker 06 Wait, what, what, what is the change that's setting the stage for the other major transformation that'll make miners irrelevant? I, I don't, I didn't think there was any proper stake preparation stuff in, in London.
1:02:20 Ryan Sean Adams? That's a narrative that the media has been going with, uh, because it sounds good, but it's not true.
1:02:25 Speaker 02 It's, it's, well, the, the way you can skew it that way is I and others have been saying, we have to get London done. And then the next thing is the merge. And so like it, it was requisite to complete before we can move on.
1:02:40 Speaker 06 Sure. No, no, I, I have, I have seen, I think it was on, actually, I don't remember the location, but yeah, a lot of people have been uh, misunderstanding that this actually has proof of state components or that the, this is the proof of state uh, going live on mainnet upgrade.
1:02:57 Speaker 02 Yeah, that's false.
1:02:58 Speaker 03 I saw someone tweet that E2 was coming today. So there's that.
1:03:02 Speaker 04 Oh, God.
1:03:02 Speaker 01 Look, I'm not, I'm not gonna like.
1:03:04 Ryan Sean Adams? It's David Hoffman.
1:03:07 Speaker 01 I, I would, I'm never gonna like criticize someone for getting like stuff about Ethereum wrong because it's, it's complicated. And I remember when I was learning Ethereum, I made the same mistakes, but they're on a public TV show, dude. Like you kind of gotta dot your i's and cross your t's.
1:03:24 Speaker 03 Hmm. Do they? They don't normally.
1:03:27 Speaker 04 1559 is actually trending in technology on Twitter, which is interesting.
1:03:32 Speaker 03 Wow. People just like, what is this number? What does it mean?
1:03:36 Speaker 01 What is 1559 bullshit is this?
1:03:40 Speaker 04 Right.
1:03:41 Speaker 03 1559 what?
1:03:46 Speaker 03 Man, we, we must look really silly to people who have no idea what's going on. Like imagine visiting our student profiles. What is in EIP 1559?
1:03:58 Speaker 03 It's a shadowy super coder, um, just trying, uh, communicating with each other, secret language.
1:04:04 Ryan Sean Adams? Hmm. I, I, I am surprised that, uh, we were neighbor, the Ethereum community was never able to come up with a different name for this. It just went with the generic.
1:04:14 Speaker 04 1559.
1:04:15 Ryan Sean Adams? 1559.
1:04:16 Speaker 03 It caught on. That's the thing though. Like it caught on and then you couldn't change it.
1:04:20 Speaker 02 It's the burn, you know, the next fork's the merge.
1:04:23 Speaker 04 Yeah. What's really funny, what's really funny is when I, I wrote in, um, Submitted the EIP on GitHub. You're supposed to like follow a process and like I didn't follow it. I just picked a random number and it happened to be 1559 for some reason.
1:04:37 Speaker 01 Oh, is that how 1559 got selected?
1:04:40 Speaker 04 Yeah, it wasn't like actually in the order of what it should have been. I forget what the number.
1:04:43 Speaker 01 You didn't use 69? What?
1:04:47 Speaker 04 It's because I thought that's where the EIPs had left off, but it wasn't. I was just confused. So, funny story.
1:04:57 Speaker 03 Fun. Well, I mean, now it's forever embedded into Ethereum law.
1:05:01 Speaker 04 Right.
1:05:07 Ryan Sean Adams? Guys, what's next? Has MetaMask updated yet? I want to send a transaction here.
1:05:11 Speaker 03 They say they're rolling it out. I've been trying to force update mine, but I'm not seeing it yet.
1:05:15 Speaker 04 They still don't have a release on GitHub yet. It's still on 984.
1:05:19 Speaker 03 Okay.
1:05:23 Speaker 05 Ryan, if you go to Ultrasound of Money and scroll down to project the supply, the base gas price is currently 51 gray. So go ahead and do that and see. I think we can clearly see that the supply is going down.
1:05:38 Speaker 06 Well, the supply is still going. Oh, oh, I see. Post-merge, yeah.
1:05:45 Speaker 05 Post-merge, yeah.
1:05:48 Speaker 06 Yeah, and I think at the 51 level, that might even exceed the theoretical maximum BOS issuance.
1:05:57 Speaker 06 Hmm. So here's one, one fun philosophical question. So if we have the burn and the burn goes all this so far that the ETH supply goes all the way down to 11.9 million, does that make Ethereum 100% pre-mined?
1:06:15 Speaker 06 And when it goes even lower, do we become 105% pre-mined?
1:06:20 Speaker 01 Chris Alec, have you, have you heard about all the blockstream people trying to lobby, lobby the regulators to remind them that Ethereum's, Ethereum's a security? Notice this, this is going on?
1:06:31 Speaker 06 Oh, yeah, yeah, I did. I saw, I saw that on Twitter. I mean, we're, no, no, in. Is there actually evidence of that? Ethereum is, Ethereum is a security-oriented blockchain.
1:06:48 Speaker 05 Love it.
1:06:51 Speaker 06 And Danny, to answer your question, no, there's no, I mean, CFTC has already ruled that Ether is a commodity. So that's.
1:06:58 Speaker 02 No, I know. I meant evidence of the lobbying. Also, Vitalik, you're going to be quoted out of context.
1:07:08 Speaker 01 Ethereum is a security Vitalik buter.
1:07:14 Speaker 02 David, now you are as well.
1:07:17 Speaker 01 Ethereum is a security Vitalik buter and David Hoffman.
1:07:21 Speaker 04 CoinDesk is writing an article right now.
1:07:26 Speaker 03 Oh, man.
1:07:29 Speaker 05 Talking about.
1:07:30 Speaker 03 It's just funny how like whenever.
1:07:32 Speaker 05 Go ahead.
1:07:33 Speaker 03 I was just gonna say whenever this, like these major upgrades happen, like it was the same thing when Proof of Stake was going live, they just come out of the woodwork and start just flooding Ethereum. It's like, thanks for the free marketing, guys. Seriously.
1:07:49 Speaker 01 What are you saying?
1:07:49 Speaker 05 I was just gonna say that talking about security, we almost have an all time high in terms of economic security. So basically, the amount of ETH that's staking, that's about $17 billion. And from what I can tell, it's by far the most secure blockchain in terms of economic security, even greater than than our friends at Bitcoin.
1:08:13 Speaker 01 17 billion?
1:08:14 Speaker 02 Yeah. John Adler. Oh, sorry.
1:08:17 Speaker 01 Is that 17 billion in ETH staked you're talking about?
1:08:20 Speaker 05 Yeah, that's correct. Yes. So that's two, that's two things. Like, first of all, it means that if you want to pull off a 51% attack from a budget standpoint, you kind of have to, kind of the naive attack is just to match the $17 billion. And so that's the budget that you need. But then there's this other concept, which is the cost, which is if you do make an attack, then you will get slashed and you're going to lose billions of dollars. And here it's very, very high for Ethereum 2.0 and the beacon chain. And this is one of the places where it distinguishes itself from Bitcoin, where Bitcoin has no concept of slashing. So the cost is for the attack is zero, but the budget is extremely high.
1:08:59 Speaker 02 You just got to get the capital in your god mode.
1:09:03 Speaker 06 Justin, we should do a podcast on this.
1:09:06 Speaker 02 It's very interesting. Yeah, like that's a subtle difference. If you can just accumulate capital, you're good. You now own the network.
1:09:17 Ryan Sean Adams? I mean, you know, all this to say these projections, even under kind of like, I guess these are somewhat conservative projections, or maybe like middle of the road projections, definitely does not look like we will exceed 120 million ETH supply ever.
1:09:34 Speaker 05 So the biggest variable for the supply peak is going to be the merge date. I mean, if you play with the merge dates, we will go beyond 120 million if we are past Q1. So that's another, I guess, another incentive for trying to to merge in Q1. We can reach this meme number of 120.
1:09:53 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's also 2020 GWA maybe is like a more conservative, just to see what the numbers look like.
1:10:06 Ryan Sean Adams? I liked 50.
1:10:08 Speaker 02 Nah.
1:10:11 Speaker 02 Are you a user or a speculator?
1:10:15 Ryan Sean Adams? Both.
1:10:19 Ryan Sean Adams? Oh, I have a question. Variables. Yeah, go ahead. That's.
1:10:24 Speaker 07 So Vitalik and Danny, looking back at the DAO hack, let's let's go back in time. Had we not done the like the state transition to give the coins back to the DAO holders? Would that have affected how we do proof of state stuff today? Because of how much coin they had.
1:10:45 Speaker 02 How much coin did they have? It was like 15% of 14.
1:10:48 Speaker 06 No, no, actually, they ended up only taking 4 million. It was weird. Like, I think they could have taken more, but then they just like let the 8 million go. I think, I don't know, that might have been the attacker just like realizing that if they took the entire amount, then we would definitely fork. But no, no, even with the third, we forked anyway. I would personally say no, like I think, well, for me personally, a key part of how I approach proof of state security, and I think this was true for Vlad as well, is that like, we should not be viewing a single 51% attack as the end of the world. If a 51% attack happens, then you just
1:11:28 Speaker 06 you know, if slash, if necessary, do a community soft work and rekind of rework past it.
1:11:34 Speaker 02 Burn a bunch of ETH and move on.
1:11:37 Speaker 06 Yeah, burn a bunch of burn a bunch of ETH, and then the attacker does this five times, and then after that, they don't have their 3 million ETH anymore.
1:11:45 Speaker 01 Hey Ryan, watch the burn.com is back up.
1:11:49 Speaker 02 I think that it could have definitely shaken confidence. Obviously, I think it's good to have these recovery mechanisms, but it would have been this like looming thing where people would be talking about it.
1:12:00 Speaker 07 Yeah, whereas now no one talks about it. I mean, most people don't even know about it.
1:12:05 Speaker 06 Yeah, that's there. Hmm. Yeah, I actually wonder like, what's the counterfactual universe where the Dal fork never happens would look like?
1:12:17 Speaker 02 Be living on the moon.
1:12:18 Speaker 06 I did hear through the grapevine that there actually was a significance, a number of Bitcoin people that moved from Ethereum curious to thinking Ethereum is the devil precisely because of that event. So, I don't know, on the like, I guess it's very possible that like the flipping would have happened, but on the flip side Ethereum would be more Bitcoin-y and me potentially, yeah, like one way, one practical way in which that might manifest is that there might, might have been more opposition to proof of stake and proof of stake might have like been the, the pivotal split into two.
1:12:55 Speaker 07 I think we would have had like, so I feel like Ethereum classic rooted out the super ideologues of Ethereum, like, like very passionate, like people who like really go by ideology of a peer blockchain and stuff. Like I liked that they, you know, were kind of rooted out, not that they're bad people, but they're
1:13:20 Speaker 06 I don't know if I'd use the term rooted out. I would say it gave them their own space to pursue what ideologies they, they value the most.
1:13:29 Speaker 07 Yeah, very amicable. So that, so, so it's just, I feel like it's, at least for the Ethereum I envision, it's, it's a little bit better.
1:13:37 Speaker 02 Did, uh, did the difficulty stay relatively stable signaling that all, um, pools came?
1:13:45 Speaker 02 There's no contentious fork?
1:13:48 Speaker 07 Um, I just realized that my nethermind node is on an old version. Wow.
1:13:54 Speaker 01 Oh my God.
1:13:55 Speaker 03 You're one of those last like people who don't realize until the fork happens. There's always a few of you guys.
1:14:03 Speaker 06 You know, you know, coin telegraph is gonna write.
1:14:04 Speaker 04 That up is Hudson Jameson Forks Ethereum.
1:14:09 Speaker 02 He's running the contentious fork alone.
1:14:12 Speaker 07 Oh, if you go to ETH stats.
1:14:13 Speaker 02 With his CPU miner.
1:14:15 Speaker 07 I like the only node on ETH stats who has an up. Oh, no, no, no. There's a few others.
1:14:20 Speaker 02 Yeah, there's usually a few.
1:14:21 Speaker 07 I'm the only Nethermind node on ETH stats that's on the old fork.
1:14:28 Speaker 07 That's funny.
1:14:30 Ryan Sean Adams? Eric, you put the, uh, is this the new MetaMask version?
1:14:33 Speaker 04 Yeah, that's just.
1:14:35 Speaker 01 Oh, we just hit a hundred ETH burns. So that's cool.
1:14:38 Speaker 03 The, um, the, the etherchain.org slash burn website is really cool. It's got like a burn rate.
1:14:45 Speaker 03 Stats is 1.65 ETH per minute being burned right now.
1:14:48 Speaker 02 What's the punk floor? Is that like one punk a minute?
1:14:53 Speaker 02 Oh, no, that's like a 10.
1:14:54 Speaker 04 The floor is a lot higher.
1:14:55 Speaker 03 Yeah. Yeah.
1:14:58 Speaker 04 The punk floor is 35 ETH right now. 35.9.
1:15:02 Speaker 02 Uh, Trent, do you know what the RPC call? There's some new one, right? Like fee history? It fee history. Yeah. ETH underscore. Oh, I just want to try it out. Yeah, I can grab you. There's Tim has a link. Uh, one thing I want to mention really quick is that over time, the ETH burn per block might drop as a ratio as more people start using 1559 style transactions because currently it seems like almost every. Sorry?
1:15:30 Speaker 06 Is, is that true? Like that, that should, that would reduce the priority fee as well. Would that reduce the burn?
1:15:37 Speaker 02 Uh, isn't it going to? Basically, users aren't getting refunded now.
1:15:44 Speaker 06 Um.
1:15:46 Speaker 02 Oh, there's a margin.
1:15:49 Speaker 06 Right. But the point like right now, like basically if you like whatever fee you pay, like some gets burned and the rest goes to the miner. Whereas like in the future, whatever fee you pay, like some go like the some gets burned and then the rest that you just most of it, you don't pay.
1:16:07 Speaker 05 What's going to happen is that the the ratio of burnt to tip is going to improve. So we're going to be burning more and having less tip. And one of the things that we'll be able to do is retroactively look at the stats and calculate how much we've been overpaying the miners in tips.
1:16:25 Speaker 05 You know, kind of comparing today where it's mostly legacy transactions versus when it's mostly EIP 1559 transactions. But the the base fee should not be impacted by EIP 1559.
1:16:52 Speaker 01 Oh, so now what?
1:16:54 Speaker 05 Now what? It'll be interesting. So when it looks like we do have a rough a 200 block estimate of how much we've burned, which is like what about 105 ETH or so, which is looks like we're burning over a little a quarter, a little over a quarter of the block reward, which is an interesting fact.
1:17:15 Speaker 02 Peter from Geth just tweeted, okay, all three burn sites show different totals. At least the chain is still in consensus.
1:17:25 Speaker 04 I was actually joking. Somebody brought this up last night and I said, this is going to be the next supply gate where all the sites have a different amount of burns.
1:17:33 Speaker 02 Supply gates, it's a more complex calculation now. No one knows.
1:17:40 Ryan Sean Adams? Yeah, so we have.
1:17:41 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's like. But there's no floor, right?
1:17:44 Speaker 05 Right. The supply gate is being replaced with a reinforced steel door.
1:17:52 Ryan Sean Adams? So this is on Etherchain Burn. It's showing 109 ultrasound money.
1:17:59 Speaker 01 Have we gotten any insight as to percentage of fee burn yet?
1:18:08 Speaker 06 Just like
1:18:08 Speaker 02 Quarter of it.
1:18:10 Speaker 06 No, no, that's a quarter of the block reward. I think just looking at random blocks, I'm seeing about a three to one ratio between burn and fees paid to the miner. Let me just look up a couple of random blocks and see if that's true. Oh, there's one with a six to one ratio. There's one with a four to one. And there's also one with a four to one.
1:18:33 Speaker 01 That's pretty high.
1:18:36 Speaker 06 There's one with more fees than burn. There's one with a three to one.
1:18:41 Speaker 01 A block, block 174 has 1.16 tip paid with 1.25 burnt fee. So almost one to one. The highest I've seen.
1:18:52 Speaker 06 A block 193 has 2.33 burn or a tip.
1:19:01 Speaker 01 Wow, look at that.
1:19:01 Speaker 05 I mean, one thing to consider is that the the median amount and the average amount is going to be very different. And the reason is that MEV is extremely spiky. And so the tips are going to be very spiky and concentrated in some blocks.
1:19:16 Speaker 02 Is she gas token at zero yet?
1:19:20 Speaker 01 I think Nothing, nothing ever goes to zero in this industry.
1:19:23 Speaker 06 Oh, good question.
1:19:24 Speaker 02 Now it's a relic.
1:19:27 Speaker 04 Yeah, now people are speculating.
1:19:28 Speaker 06 I am.
1:19:29 Speaker 03 Now it's an NFT.
1:19:33 Speaker 06 On gas token or on Uniswap and see what she gas token is at.
1:19:38 Speaker 03 Yeah, I can see it.
1:19:41 Speaker 03 It's on, it's still worth, it has a market cap of 830,000 and it still has a little bit of liquidity on one inch.
1:19:49 Speaker 03 It's probably them backstopping it though.
1:19:52 Speaker 06 No liquidity, clicked to trade with V2. And then with an infinite amount of chi, you can get $46,000 out of the US swap V2 pool.
1:20:06 Speaker 06 Share that, anybody, anyone who's got chi. Yeah, yeah, you got.
1:20:10 Speaker 02 Now's the time.
1:20:12 Speaker 06 Yeah, now's the time. You got $46,000.
1:20:15 Speaker 05 If you look at the
1:20:17 Speaker 01 It's gonna go up.
1:20:17 Speaker 05 You look at that chart there, I don't know if this is like a data error or something, but you can see somebody burnt 100 million.
1:20:24 Speaker 06 Of cheat, which completely you can't even see the other parts of the chart. So either somebody was farming this over time and then eventually just called it quits and burnt it, burnt it all to get their refunds. That might be a graph because of how significant that is, but something probably happened there.
1:20:45 Speaker 05 Well, gas tokens were one of the greatest to me, like economic subversions and you know,
1:20:52 Speaker 06 just harnessing something that that was available for everybody and you know, wrapping it into something interesting. Yeah, I know. So so apparently the cool new thing is that people are trying to show MEV extraction tokens. But which hopefully none, none of that is going to get anywhere.
1:21:14 Speaker 02 I'm also gonna go to zero and
1:21:17 Speaker 06 Yeah, right.
1:21:18 Speaker 02 When we have one Protection mechanisms are put into the
1:21:21 Speaker 06 Right, right. Whenever we add a block proposer builder separation, you know, so not a good idea to buy.
1:21:28 Speaker 02 Just like gas token, it's going to zero.
1:21:32 Speaker 06 Yup, yup, yup.
1:21:33 Speaker 01 Hey, gas token had a good run, though.
1:21:36 Speaker 06 Yeah, no, sorry. Sorry, Eden. No garden for you.
1:21:42 Speaker 07 Wait, is that out yet?
1:21:44 Speaker 06 No, I don't think so.
1:21:45 Speaker 02 No.
1:21:49 Speaker 07 Oh, man.
1:21:53 Speaker 04 The gas, the block gas limit's still going down, so.
1:21:57 Speaker 01 So What's the reasoning? What's the reasoning behind why there are empty blocks at times? And this was true before the fork, right? There's just empty blocks every night.
1:22:06 Speaker 06 I guess some miners just like experience higher levels of actually, no, even before the fork, you know, it can't be like about on corporate issues because before the fork fees were enough to compensate, I guess.
1:22:20 Speaker 06 Oh, that's okay. It's a good question.
1:22:23 Speaker 04 Well, shouldn't it? Meaning a miner potentially is going to just not take in the transactions because their latency is high to miss out on the block and get uncold. Isn't that probably most likely the reason? Just take the block reward?
1:22:37 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, it's unclear. It seems like a very poor calculation of their assessment of the uncle rate given, given the value you can get from any of these. So I don't know the exact reasoning, other than like, fuck it.
1:22:52 Speaker 01 There's a comment in the YouTube saying that they mine empty blocks just to push the gas price up. That doesn't make any sense, though, right?
1:22:58 Speaker 02 No.
1:22:58 Speaker 01 That's not right.
1:23:00 Speaker 02 That if anything, they're going to, they're going to allow somebody else to make more money than them.
1:23:07 Speaker 06 Wait, what? Oh.
1:23:13 Speaker 06 Sorry, I found that.
1:23:18 Speaker 06 I, I, I thought it was Peters. So like you responded to Tim Big on Twitter, but actually it was one of those scam Peters.
1:23:27 Speaker 02 One of the scam Peters.
1:23:33 Speaker 06 What did he say? And did you almost believe him? Um. Well, yeah, I think I only believed him when I was just looking at the Discord message and my eyes weren't yet pointed at.
1:23:47 Speaker 02 You sent him 10 ETH though, right?
1:23:49 Speaker 06 No, yeah, deposit up to ETH and we'll, and we'll shoot you. Oh, back was doubled about.
1:24:02 Speaker 06 So if I can ask Vitalik, anything interesting you expect people to build with the base fee up code?
1:24:11 Speaker 06 Oh, good question. I think, well, one natural thing that makes sense is that like if you're building a smart contract system that has any kind of bounty mechanism for people to send transactions, then it's just much more efficient for that bounty. It's a B, like the base fee plus some amount. Have you seen the, the keeper?
1:24:31 Speaker 02 Network.
1:24:33 Speaker 06 This was like this is like a concept Maker that I was been trying to push for a long time, right? Or is it someone else?
1:24:40 Speaker 02 This one is by, you know, Andrei, Cronje and Yern.
1:24:44 Speaker 06 Oh, I see. Okay. No, it was like Maker, I think.
1:24:46 Speaker 02 Yeah. We have another concept of keepers. And you can do on-chain betting about on-chain usage.
1:24:54 Speaker 06 Hmm. Yeah. Another nice one is the optimistic rollups in plasmas and channels, increasing the or adjusting withdrawal periods based on how high the base fee is. But I think realistically, like plasma is probably not going to see enough of a light of day for that to become an issue. It just, the rollups are too too far and too fast at this point. Hmm.
1:25:29 Speaker 02 Is there any room for plasma constructions, given channels, rollups and other potentially better ones?
1:25:37 Speaker 06 I think realistically, like in the medium term, there's going to be things that are on the volidiums.
1:25:44 Speaker 06 If they don't, you know, like if you don't care about, like if you do, if you just want the kind of weaker guarantee of authenticity. And you're fine with the operator breaking aliveness. So like accountable centralization, basically, then that, you know, makes sense to be a volidium.
1:26:05 Speaker 07 So what about, isn't Polygon plasma kind of?
1:26:09 Speaker 06 Nah.
1:26:10 Speaker 07 Network.
1:26:11 Speaker 06 They're a side chain, though.
1:26:13 Speaker 07 Oh, that's right.
1:26:15 Speaker 06 Though I understand that they maybe have possibly some kind of plan to add a rollup or become a rollup eventually, but.
1:26:22 Speaker 07 Yes.
1:26:23 Speaker 03 They have the plasma chain live, but the chain that sees the most activity is the POS chain, which is like the side chain. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But they do plan to bring out layer two kind of tech as well on their roadmap. So it'll be cool to see what they come up with.
1:26:43 Speaker 03 Man, these burn sites are gonna like be some of the most high-traffic sites in this ecosystem like.
1:26:52 Speaker 05 So I have access to the stats for ultrasound up money and there's 2,500 people currently watching the website.
1:26:59 Speaker 03 Geez.
1:27:00 Speaker 01 And Danny's cat.
1:27:02 Speaker 02 Of course. That's that's usually the signal at the end of the call for me to take over issues.
1:27:09 Speaker 01 Joe Weisenthal just tweeted out Hozu's article on EIP 1559 saying it's a good read. So that's cool. Thanks, Joe.
1:27:15 Speaker 03 Who tweeted that out?
1:27:16 Speaker 01 Joe Weisenthal from.
1:27:18 Speaker 03 Okay, yeah.
1:27:19 Speaker 01 Bloomberg?
1:27:24 Speaker 06 Hmm. Yay.
1:27:26 Speaker 04 Alex from Nansen just tweeted out a graph. I don't know where it came from, but because I don't think it's on Nansen yet, but he tweeted out the percentage of EIP 1559 transactions. And it looks like we're up to 16%. It just spiked huge in the last few minutes. So some law it must have updated. Maybe it's rolling.
1:27:46 Speaker 02 Did that release come out?
1:27:48 Speaker 04 I don't see it yet on GitHub, but.
1:27:51 Speaker 04 I think if we see any spike, it's gonna be from, you know, bots or. Yeah, right. Yeah.
1:28:04 Speaker 03 It's like, it reminds me of when Bitcoin upgraded to SegWit and now watching the percentage of transactions that were SegWit transactions. But it happened a lot slower. I didn't get the 16% for a long time.
1:28:16 Speaker 06 Yeah, that that took like, what, a year to get to 40% or something?
1:28:19 Speaker 03 Uh huh. Yeah, it took a while.
1:28:21 Speaker 01 I was impressed by how fast Root, how fast Taproot got consensus.
1:28:27 Speaker 01 It took like not much time at all.
1:28:29 Speaker 06 Oh, hold on. Who was this in the chat? Oh, Azvane Vik. Oh, that's not the same as Alex Svetzky. Okay, no, I think I got him.
1:28:37 Speaker 01 Oh, God, let's not talk about Alex Svetzky.
1:28:39 Speaker 06 Okay. Okay, looking for group EIP 1559. Wait, what does that mean again?
1:28:50 Speaker 03 It's, it's, I read it as looking for group to Vitalik, that's why I laugh. It actually, it's, it's let's fucking go, um, instead of looking for group. Yeah, but I always read it as, that's how, that's how you know all the Warcraft maxi coming out.
1:29:06 Speaker 02 What is GM?
1:29:09 Speaker 03 Good morning.
1:29:10 Speaker 02 Good morning. What the hell is going on with that?
1:29:18 Speaker 03 Oh, man.
1:29:19 Speaker 02 General Motors. Yeah, everyone's pumping GM stock.
1:29:24 Speaker 02 I mean, that's not a bad guess.
1:29:28 Speaker 06 Still say looking for group. Hey guys, I heard there's this hard fork of GM called GME.
1:29:39 Speaker 03 On our front page at Bloomberg, Vitalik pumps GMA.
1:29:54 Speaker 02 Ultrasound money, that money still has that bug, right? Or are we burning like quadrillions worth of beef?
1:30:02 Speaker 03 No, I think the bug got fixed.
1:30:04 Speaker 02 It got fixed, yeah.
1:30:06 Speaker 06 It needed to divide by 18, right?
1:30:09 Speaker 06 I've done that, you know, when we released the multilateral die, I had diestats.com on the first block. But numbers in maker are 45 decimals long and I forgot to divide by 45, so.
1:30:23 Speaker 02 At least you forgot on the UI and not in the contract.
1:30:27 Speaker 06 It was on the UI, thankfully, yeah. Oh, wow, we got a 1.7 burn. Um, that's, I wonder when, yeah, I wonder when the first net negative issuance block is gonna come. That'll be fun.
1:30:41 Speaker 03 Next time.
1:30:42 Speaker 05 One thing which is a.
1:30:43 Speaker 03 NFTs.
1:30:44 Speaker 05 One thing which is a little scary, you see here, there's a flip flopping, there's 0.1 ETH and then 1.6, 0.011, and then 1.3. This might suggest, I'm not saying it is, but it might suggest that the adjustment of 12.5% is a bit too high. So, you know, we go up 12.5%, oh, it's too expensive.
1:31:05 Speaker 06 I think the flip flop thing, it could happen with even smaller adjustments as well. I think like the, the way that I think I remember it being explained in one of the papers that talked about the flip flop issue was that if a lot, if there's one user that sets a fee, like one large user that sets their fee at some amount, or if there is like some psychological threshold that lots of people set their fee to, then like if it's under, then it's super full, and then if it's over, it's empty, and so it flip flops. But this was actually one of the reasons why I, I proposed, there was that alternative version in ETH research where I talked about like the Y equals E to the power of X curve.
1:31:49 Speaker 06 And I think it's like, maybe alternative EIP 1559 design or something. Let me look this up.
1:31:58 Speaker 01 Most recent block is 1.75 ETH burn.
1:32:10 Speaker 06 Improve EIP 1559 UX by, no, that's, that's not mine. That's a different one. Grr, where is this thing?
1:32:30 Speaker 06 There it is. Make EIP 1559 more like an AMM curve, ETH research and 9082. That was the
1:32:38 Speaker 06 thing that I suggested as a fix, both to the current imbalance where technically instead of 50, 50% of miners to bring it down to zero, you only need about like 47% and also the, the flip flopping.
1:32:55 Speaker 02 Yeah, Barnaby, I remember he released a couple notebooks and then reports that kind of talked about this oscillation. And I think actually Tom, Tim Ruffcard may have talked about it in his report last year. But yeah, it's, I'm sure, so in two weeks, actually. We're having another call. We've been hosting a series of calls associated with the Cordova.
1:33:17 Speaker 01 Oh shit, we just had our, sorry to cut you off Trent, we just had our first block that Burntmore Ethan issued.
1:33:22 Speaker 06 Oh, well, which one?
1:33:24 Speaker 01 Uh, 263. Sorry Trent.
1:33:27 Speaker 06 Woo. Well, let me, let me check if that includes on calls.
1:33:31 Speaker 03 We are net deflationary guys.
1:33:33 Speaker 06 Okay, it's official. Oh wow, yeah, it is. Yeah.
1:33:35 Ryan Sean Adams? This is, is this the first ultrasound money block?
1:33:38 Speaker 01 This is the first ultrasound money block.
1:33:43 Speaker 05 I am an FT drop.
1:33:46 Speaker 01 Trent, sorry, sorry about that. Go ahead.
1:33:49 Speaker 02 I was just gonna say, one of the things we've been doing is hosting ecosystem infrastructure calls. So this is like libraries,
1:33:59 Speaker 02 tooling, infrastructure providers, like, like node runners who then provide data to applications. We've been hosting a bunch of calls over the past few months to get people ready and we're gonna have another one in two weeks. And I'm really looking forward to see what Barnabas presents because he's gonna do some analysis around this exact behavior that we're looking at now, but it'll probably be much more informed and have some interesting takeaways for how the mechanism is working properly and maybe how it can be improved for future versions.
1:34:37 Speaker 07 Those recorded and streamed?
1:34:41 Speaker 02 They are recorded. I don't think we live stream them, but all of the recordings are either on the Ethereum Foundation YouTube or the Catarus YouTube.
1:34:55 Speaker 05 Justin, uh, decía algo en castellano para la comunidad latina.
1:35:02 Speaker 05 Bueno, hola a todos. ¿Cómo se dice ultrasound? Ultrasound.
1:35:13 Speaker 05 Somos un, en un regimo ultrasonido, así que cuando el, el, el proof of work, cuando no tenemos el proof of work, vamos a hacer ultrasonido.
1:35:29 Speaker 05 Gracias.
1:35:32 Speaker 07 That was, that was awesome. Thank you. I know there's, there's a lot of people listening from Latin America. Okay, now Vitalik, do your five languages.
1:35:43 Speaker 01 Ultrasound money in every single language you know, Vitalik, go.
1:35:48 Speaker 06 I don't even know how to say.
1:35:59 Speaker 02 Okay, I gotta sign off.
1:36:02 Ryan Sean Adams? Guys, I feel like mission, mission accomplished.
1:36:05 Speaker 05 Mission accomplished.
1:36:06 Ryan Sean Adams? Successful, yeah.
1:36:07 Speaker 05 Mission accomplished.
1:36:08 Ryan Sean Adams? 59 is, is deployed. We're all set, guys.
1:36:12 Speaker 01 Ethereum not dead yet.
1:36:15 Ryan Sean Adams? Not dead yet.
1:36:16 Speaker 02 1559, setting the stage for the proof of stick.
1:36:19 Ryan Sean Adams? Absolutely. That's what's next. Is that the next livestream? We're doing the merge live? When? When are we doing that, guys?
1:36:27 Speaker 01 When should we schedule that?
1:36:28 Speaker 03 Justin loves giving dates.
1:36:32 Speaker 07 Let Justin pick the date again. It's worked all.
1:36:37 Speaker 05 Q1, Q1. It's happening, Q1.
1:36:40 Speaker 03 One minute chart, like, every time you speak about the merge, one minute chart just dumps. Like, save me, please.
1:36:49 Ryan Sean Adams? Well, all right, everyone. We want to thank everyone who joined this. ETH guys, been a pleasure to host with you. Of course, everyone who's, who's been on the livestream. Thank you so much for attending. We've watched history. I think EIP 1559 deployed. We are at 174 ETH burnt, successful fork. A really exciting time to be in this ecosystem. And thanks, thanks, everyone for watching. Take care.
1:37:10 Speaker 01 And subscribe to the YouTube.
1:37:14 Speaker 01 Bye, everyone.
1:37:14 Speaker 03 Hey, guys. Bye, everyone.
1:37:16 Speaker 05 Bye. Bye, bye. See ya.
1:37:19 Speaker 02 Bye.
1:37:20 Speaker 03 Bye.
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Previous EIP1559 Expert Panel | Tim Beiko, Hasu, Micah Zoltu, Barnabe Monnot, Matt (LightClients) Next ROLLUP: EIP-1559 | Infrastructure Bill | CryptoPunks & NFTs | Bitcoin ETF | DyDx Token (August 6th) Page updated October 25, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated
