ROLLUP: $ARB Airdrop | Banking Failure with SVB & Silvergate | Ethereum Shanghai Staking Withrawals

Bankless Weekly Rollup 3rd Week of March 2023 ------ 🚀 JOIN BANKLESS PREMIUM: https://www.bankless.com/join ------ BANKLESS SPONSOR TOOLS: 🐙KRAKEN | MOST-TRUSTED CRYPTO EXCHANGE https://bankless.cc/kraken 🦊METAMASK LEARN | HELPFUL WEB3 RESOURCE https://bankless.cc/MetaMask ⚖️ ARBITRUM | SCALING ETHEREUM https://bankless.cc/Arbitrum 🦄 UNISWAP | THE DEFI EXCHANGE https://bankless.cc/uniswap 👻 PHANTOM | CROSS-CHAIN WALLET https://bankless.cc/phantom ------ Topics Covered 0:00 Intro 1:40 Citizenship 3:30 MARKETS 9:40 CPI Inflation https://twitter.com/RealVision/status/1635619573901688834 12:54 ETH Burn https://twitter.com/ultrasoundmoney/status/1635719284876771350 14:00 DeFi Volume https://twitter.com/AustinAdams10/status/1634737488534073344 https://twitter.com/synthetix_io/status/1633963371434332161 18:45 Arbitrum Token https://twitter.com/BanklessHQ/status/1636351836381937666 https://docs.arbitrum.foundation/gentle-intro-dao-governance 27:35 $ARB Airdrop Predictions https://www.bankless.com/the-arb-arbitrum-airdrop-is-here/ https://earni.fi/ 32:27 US Banking System https://twitter.com/scienceisstrat1/status/1627661003449147393 36:12 Recapping SVB and Silvergate 37:07 Operation Chokepoint 2.0 https://twitter.com/nic__carter/status/1634770876494147584 https://twitter.com/GOPMajorityWhip/status/1636008298481680384 41:49 USDC Price https://twitter.com/jerallaire/status/1635059024050937856 39:47 Credit Suisse https://apnews.com/article/credit-suisse-banks-svb-shares-ecb-lagarde-94585aebadbf67f9a2307d3560ce502c 45:47 Banking Crisis https://twitter.com/twobitidiot/status/1635112021862785024 46:42 FedNow CBDC https://twitter.com/federalreserve/status/1636110208878379010 https://twitter.com/damonnam/status/1636150037657837568 48:23 ETH Security KuCoin Crypto https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2023/attorney-general-james-continues-crackdown-unregistered-cryptocurrency-platforms https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2023/03/09/what-happens-if-ethereum-is-a-security/ 50:37 Gary Gensler Proof of Stake https://www.theblock.co/post/220297/gensler-suggests-proof-of-stake-tokens-are-securities 54:50 Ethereum Shanghai Staking Withdrawals https://twitter.com/TimBeiko/status/1636370111333556224 Lido Staking - https://twitter.com/LidoFinance/status/1635739571227951117 55:50 Euler Finance Hacked https://twitter.com/eulerfinance/status/1635431726364147712? 59:20 Aztec Connect https://twitter.com/aztecnetwork/status/1635319509707030528 1:00:15 Starbucks NFTs https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/9/23633169/starbucks-nfts-odyssey-siren-collection-rewards-program 1:01:10 Fortnite Epic Games Crypto https://blockworks.co/news/epic-games-fortnite-store-crypto-blockchain 1:02:05 Meta Instagram NFTs https://twitter.com/skasriel/status/1635386565487898624 1:04:20 Bankless NFT Collectibles https://market.bankless.com/ 1:05:15 Fidelity Crypto https://www.theblock.co/post/220298/fidelity-crypto-quietly-went-live-giving-millions-of-retail-customers-access-to-bitcoin-ether 1:06:25 Releases Uniswap on BNB - https://twitter.com/Uniswap/status/1636034900284383239 Soul Wallet - https://techcrunch.com/2023/03/16/soul-wallet-crypto-wallet/ 1:10:30 Questions from the Nation https://www.bankless.com/join 1:18:00 TAKES of the Week 1:20:00 Banks are Rollups https://twitter.com/0xJim/status/1635290618003066882 1:21:02 Crypto Markets https://twitter.com/TrustlessState/status/1635312852067307520 1:21:47 Tech Entrepreneurs https://twitter.com/RyanSAdams/status/1634892046447308800 1:23:10 What David’s Bullish On 1:25:00 What Ryan’s Bullish On 1:28:00 MEME of the Week ---- Not financial or tax advice. This channel is strictly educational and is not investment advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any assets or to make any financial decisions. This video is not tax advice. Talk to your accountant. Do your own research. Disclosure. From time-to-time I may add links in this newsletter to products I use. I may receive commission if you make a purchase through one of these links. Additionally, the Bankless writers hold crypto assets. See our investment disclosures here: https://www.bankless.com/disclosures

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  Arbitrum has finally announced the long awaited airdrop. Is it layer two season? Are we finally here? Can we say that?

• 0:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  Bankless Nation, it is the third Friday of March. David, what time is it?

• 0:13David Hoffman?

  Ryan, it's the Friday Bankless Weekly Rollup where we cover the entire weekly news in crypto, which is always an ambitious endeavor, yet we persevere nonetheless into the frontier with an airdrop this week. The frontier has brought us an airdrop. We found an airdrop.

• 0:28Ryan Sean Adams?

  Big one. We got one.

• 0:29David Hoffman?

  We got one.

• 0:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  One that was much anticipated, guys. We're going to tell you about the Arbitrum airdrop. It's happening and we've got all the details. We're also going to talk about some of this fallout from this little banking crisis that seems to be going on. It happened after we recorded the last rollup and it's been going on until then. So we'll talk about that. Now, maybe the contagion has reached Europe. David, what else are we covering?

• 0:52David Hoffman?

  The New York attorney says that Ether is a security, but should we even listen to them at all? Gary says staking is also security-ish. We have to listen to him a little bit more. The CFTC says, hold up, hold up. So we'll talk about all those details. And then sad, sad news out of DeFi Protocol Euler was a big hack, $200 million DeFi hack from a beloved bear market building team. So we'll cover those details and more. Make sure to like and subscribe, rate and review wherever you are listening to this, whether you are listening to this on the podcast or on the YouTube. Hit that like button, hit that subscribe button and share it with your friends and family to help those who are not yet on their bankless journey go bankless.

• 1:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  Speaking of going bankless, David, this is a question for everyone in the bankless nation who is listening right now. Are you a bankless citizen yet? David and I told you about the release of our new website, bankless.com last week. I think we must've said it about 10 times. We're trying to get in our quota of a dozen. Launched last Friday. Fantastic. Getting a lot of great feedback from the community. What the section I have open right now is our just for citizens section. So if you were listening to this, and you are not a citizen, there is an option to upgrade and become a citizen right now. One thing I'll draw your attention to is something that drops at the time you're listening to this, it should drop today. That is our airdrop guide. All right?

• 2:18Ryan Sean Adams?

  Every month, we issue an exclusive airdrop guide to all bankless citizens that contains some alpha, our best guesses on which airdrops are happening next. And they're still happening. People, people said the airdrops were dead. Uh-uh, not the case. We just got probably our biggest airdrop of the year of the last, like, I don't know, the last long time just happened this week. And the airdrop guide has a whole bunch more. I don't know, there's a few dozen anyways. And so if you missed out on Arbitrum, or even if you got the Arbitrum opportunity, there are more opportunities to unlock because as we always say, David, crypto pays you to learn about crypto.

• 3:01Ryan Sean Adams?

  You use some of these protocols, you implement the strategies, and you can be eligible for these in the future, potentially. These are just our guesses. Anyway, citizens get access to this.

• 3:12David Hoffman?

  Pretty damn good, dude. Our track record is great. Yeah.

• 3:14Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, we definitely call it Arbitrum.

• 3:16David Hoffman?

  In the feedback inside of the, inside of the Bankless Nation Discord, like, the Bankless Premium subscription is designed to pay for itself. And this is just one of the many ways in which it does that.

• 3:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  There we go. Let's get to markets, David. The price of Bitcoin this week, we up or we down?

• 3:31David Hoffman?

  Uh, we are very up. 15%. When's the last 15% green week that you've seen in Bitcoin? We started the week at 21,650, and that was before we dumped. So right when we, this, this always happens, Ryan. We concluded the weekly rollup last week.

• 3:48Ryan Sean Adams?

  Right about here, right?

• 3:49David Hoffman?

  Right, yeah, right about there is when we recorded. And then that big red candle happened, and then it went down even more. And then it resurged all throughout that, this last week. So we started the week at like 21,600, hit a low of below 20,000, which is not a number we want to be below. And then, as soon as this banking crisis resolved itself Sunday night, Monday morning, Bitcoin had a massive run, a 20 to 25% run inside of half of a day or something.

• 4:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  That is huge. Look at this.

• 4:16David Hoffman?

  Yeah, between, below 20,000 to almost 27,000. We are currently at $24,700, up 15% on the week from where we started at 21,000. So, it's one of the most volatile weeks in crypto price action probably of the year, ending the week positive in, over the last seven days by up 15%.

• 4:37Ryan Sean Adams?

  So, as is tradition, I'm sure by the time you hear this, we'll be down another 15, 20%.

• 4:41David Hoffman?

  Yeah, why?

• 4:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  Another candle down after we record.

• 4:44David Hoffman?

  After we have that candle down, like, we need to just change this section. It's like, "All right, Bankless Nation, please, please pull out your..."

• 4:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  Open your charts.

• 4:49David Hoffman?

  "Open your price tracker, checker. That's the price of Bitcoin."

• 4:53Ryan Sean Adams?

  Recite Bitcoin to yourself. Recite ETH to yourself. Insert here. How about ETH price? That tells a story, though, which is different than Bitcoin. It's also up as you'd expect, but not up as much.

• 5:05David Hoffman?

  Not up as much. Yeah, ETH price starting the week at 1530, fell down to below $1,400, moved up almost to $1,800, and now is at $1,660. So, a very volatile week, overall up 8.5% on the week. Bitcoin almost doubled the appreciation of Ether this week.

• 5:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  David, can you believe that? Let's get to this chart. This is the ETH to Bitcoin ratio, and I'm wondering if you're a little salty about this, or if you're feeling okay.

• 5:35David Hoffman?

  I'm perhaps a little bit salty.

• 5:36Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right, look at this ratio, man. So, Bitcoin, of course, appreciated much faster than the price of Ether this week, and so that means the ratio goes down. Where are we on the ratio?

• 5:47David Hoffman?

  Down 6%. So, it actually was like doing really, really well. We almost got up to .074. We were down to .076, which is a huge move for the ratio. I mean, we're used to dollar moves, Bitcoin versus Ether versus the dollar, but the ratio does not usually move much. I haven't, I don't remember the last time the ratio moved 6%, but yeah, down below .067. So, we are touching the lows of the recent times now.

• 6:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  Look at this. I am learning to become a charter on Kraken Pro, and I'm just zooming out to see.

• 6:16David Hoffman?

  Thanks, Kraken. You're doing, doing God's work here.

• 6:18Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, you've really helped. Kraken Pro, of course, Bankless sponsor, our favorite place to go chart and to exchange coins.

• 6:26David Hoffman?

  Ryan's only place that he charts. The only place that he's been able to do it.

• 6:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's great, though. I love it.

• 6:32David Hoffman?

  We haven't seen these, this lows in the ETH Bitcoin ratio since the Three Arrows Capital liquidation back in June.

• 6:38Ryan Sean Adams?

  Wow.

• 6:38David Hoffman?

  And the reason why the Ether price was so suppressed then was because Ether is just used as the collateral of the internet, just in DeFi and across, even in Solana, right? And so when Three Arrows Capital liquidated itself and many others, Ether had so much sell pressure and it bounced right back above that, but now we, we haven't seen lows since then. So.

• 6:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay. Well, so this chart really tells a story. I think this might be one of the, the stories of the week. Why did Bitcoin appreciate so much relative to Ether? It's not like some catalyst event happened for Bitcoin. It was, this is all on the back of these, these bank runs and the resolution of the bank runs, but Bitcoin appreciated more, almost double Ether? Why?

• 7:18David Hoffman?

  Yeah, I think that's right. I can only really explain it by the, the banking crisis. And I think the very simple take is that, oh, banking crises, banks are collapsing.

• 7:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  Banks bad, Bitcoin good?

• 7:31David Hoffman?

  Yeah, right. And whether or not this is new capital who are like, oh, the banks are collapsing. Therefore I'm going to warm up to Bitcoin now. I don't know how much capital is saying, is like coming to that conclusion. The other take is like, oh, the traders of crypto are like, oh, other people are going to think that. And therefore we're going to buy Bitcoin because people are going to think that, oh, banks collapsing, therefore Bitcoin. I think when something so big in the trad world that proves out crypto's use cases to happens, I think this, this simple, the simple take is like, oh, buy Bitcoin. That's my, that's my only explanation. That's my only take.

• 8:07Ryan Sean Adams?

  Let me throw another take at you. I don't know if this is later in the agenda, but you know, Binance's reserve fund, their insurance form, the fund, the Binance insurance fund that they've been stacking dollars in usually. It's, it's denom, it has been denominated in stablecoins. CZ announced that Binance is going to, I don't know if they've begun this yet, David, but is going to rather than denominate this insurance fund, if an exchanges hack or something goes wrong, kind of the Binance bailout fund is going, he's going to move that from stablecoins into Bitcoin and ETH.

• 8:37David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 8:37Ryan Sean Adams?

  And could that be a front running of that? Or could that be that sort of activity?

• 8:43David Hoffman?

  I don't know. I don't know. I mean, over in the long term, if like we just bounce off of this low because like we haven't broken down lows back down to the three hours capital liquidation levels. If we just bounce back up, then this will become noise. I don't know. I don't know how to interpret this.

• 8:57Ryan Sean Adams?

  What are you doing? You still holding that ratio trade?

• 8:59David Hoffman?

  Oh, God, yeah. Yeah. Oh, I've held I've held the rate my ratio trade down way below this. I've held it down to point 05.

• 9:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  You're not worried.

• 9:05David Hoffman?

  I held it through the the three arrows capital liquidation.

• 9:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  Look.

• 9:08David Hoffman?

  By the way.

• 9:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  You did.

• 9:10David Hoffman?

  Your boy. Your boy's not here for the short term.

• 9:14Ryan Sean Adams?

  Narrative traders are excited right now, but David continues to hold. How about the global crypto market cap? How are we doing?

• 9:20David Hoffman?

  1.125 trillion dollars.

• 9:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  Wow.

• 9:24David Hoffman?

  Up bigly. We almost fell below a trillion, but we have not.

• 9:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah. So we're up about 100 billion just on the week. Kind of nice.

• 9:31David Hoffman?

  Casual.

• 9:31Ryan Sean Adams?

  Let's talk about. Let's talk about CPI inflation. Got to talk about the quote unquote real economy. No, it's not the real economy. I guess this is the traditional economy, the non crypto economy inflation. So the long awaited US CPI numbers, that is, the consumer price index numbers came in. What are they reading? Annual inflation down to 6%. So recall over the summer, we were at like 9%, 8 or 9%, something like this. And then CPI grew less the last month. So that would be the month of February than in January. It grew less by 0.4% than February and less by 0.5% in January.

• 10:15David Hoffman?

  So I my interpretation is that the core inflation is down and it's down a predicted amount, not above or below that predicted amount. Is that the interpretation?

• 10:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  Seems to be. It seems to be kind of in line with what analysts expected, maybe down a little bit more than analysts expected, but like nothing surprising here. So the market wasn't reacting to this this week. It was all bank crisis time. You have a take about inflation here for us?

• 10:40David Hoffman?

  So if I ask you to tell me how to feel about this, your answer is you got nothing?

• 10:45Ryan Sean Adams?

  I mean, nothing new, right?

• 10:47David Hoffman?

  Tell me how to feel about this, Ryan.

• 10:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  Inflation is, I think, the same story. Trending downwards, but also is probably more persistent than the Fed or anyone else wants to admit and is probably still not going to be pushed downwards by monetary policy any further. So I'm still in the camp of like, you're 2%? Nah, that was for the 90s. We got like some 3%, 4% new normal, maybe like a 5%. And that's still the camp I'm in, but we'll have to see where where things go. And, you know, we've had macro folks in the podcast like Lynn Alden, who I consider very good in this area. And she talks about, hey,

• 11:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  the next 10 years, we're going to have cycles, volatility of inflation, periods, years where we

• 11:36David Hoffman?

  Spikes of inflation, yeah.

• 11:36Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, we have large spikes and then we kind of ease back down. But when we ease down, don't get comfortable there. We're not returning to like a, you know, 10 to 20 year period of time where we have two digit inflation. We're going to continually get real inflation in the economy. And by the way, CPI is just, I feel like it's almost the wrong metric to look at anyway.

• 11:57David Hoffman?

  Yeah, the takes I've been hearing about inflation is that we actually don't know to what degree is it a supply side problem or a demand side problem. So one take I heard recently was that, okay, we're increasing interest rates just to, you know, destroy capital, destroy demand. But also, like, there's the whole supply chain thing and all of that. And so there's the other side of the equation that the Fed doesn't have control over. And to what degree that actual inflation is responding to Fed interest rate policy versus just normal consumer and supply chain and supply side things is still unknown. And perhaps the Fed's involvement here is lessened, meaning that inflation will just naturally subside just by some of these idiosyncrasies of the COVID era just play out as they

• 12:42Ryan Sean Adams?

  We will, we will have to see. That's what, that's what the Fed wants to be true. I don't know that that's going to play out. David, let me give you some good news on your ETH Bitcoin ratio trade. All right. Ultrasound money still continues to be ultrasound.

• 12:56David Hoffman?

  Oh, thank God.

• 12:57Ryan Sean Adams?

  You can, you can go look at ultrasound.money at the burn. We just hit 3 million Ether supply burnt. As a percentage of the network, what's that? Just under like 2%?

• 13:10David Hoffman?

  No, over 2%, I think.

• 13:12Ryan Sean Adams?

  Just sorry, just under 3%.

• 13:14David Hoffman?

  Yeah, just under 3%.

• 13:15Ryan Sean Adams?

  2.7, 2.8, something like that. That's incredible, incredible.

• 13:20David Hoffman?

  3 million, 3 million ETH burns since EIP1559, not since Proof of Stake.

• 13:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  How has block space demand on Ethereum been lately?

• 13:28David Hoffman?

  Up only, up only, yeah. So 120 million and we've burned 3 million because of EIP1559. That is a significant amount. And EIP1559 burns Ether at the margins, right? So the people that still have their ICO Ether and are just holding on it, that Ether's not being burnt. It's like the active transactors that have to re-up their supply of Ether, that's being burnt. And so it actually does show up in the price slowly, very slowly.

• 13:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's fundamentals.

• 13:57David Hoffman?

  Yes.

• 13:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  These are what we call fundamentals. David, some interesting volume fundamentals as well. Uniswap volume is up big. This is a tweet from Hayden Adams. Uniswap at almost 12 billion in daily volume, hitting 11 digits for the first time ever. That's a crazy amount of volume. I feel like that's silently happening in the background.

• 14:16David Hoffman?

  Well, no, not so silently. That is, that is people fleeing out of USDC.

• 14:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, okay.

• 14:23David Hoffman?

  And then back into USDC.

• 14:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  Silently happening in the background is what I was picturing.

• 14:27David Hoffman?

  Quite loud, actually.

• 14:28Ryan Sean Adams?

  People are like, oh my God, USDC is over. There was a lot of that this weekend, by the way. We'll get to it later, but of course USD de-pegged to 90 cents. Never seen that happen, actually below 90 cents. 88, 88 cents, never seen that before. So I guess that's why the exchange activity was busy.

• 14:47David Hoffman?

  Yeah, that's exactly right, yeah. But it's also not, this is in line with other things. So here's Synthetix, $100 million in daily volume for Synthetix Perpetuals, which is a, almost a 2X bigger amount than it's ever had on a daily. So like Synthetix on Layer 2 on Optimism, coming back with the force. And this has always been a big constraint on Synthetix. Is Layer 1 Gassie's really hamstrung the whole entire Synthetix ecosystem? Now that it's on Optimism, it is seeing a rise of the phoenix for Synthetix. MetaMask swaps also hitting all-time highs over the weekend. So activity is, is, is in. Block space demand is in.

• 15:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  You know, I'm going to do a quick shout out for our friends and sponsors at MetaMask here. Seems like an appropriate time. Did you know, Bankless Nation, inside of your MetaMask wallet, there's this really cool feature called the swap? You could do inside of MetaMask. Don't need to go to an exchange. You just swap one asset for another really reasonable prices and you get that done inside of your wallet. That's what's hitting all time highs.

• 15:48David Hoffman?

  Does the whole order routing thing to go through all the exchanges so you don't have to deal with it. It's like kayak for your, for your, you know, hotels.com?

• 15:57Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, it's just like kayak.

• 15:59David Hoffman?

  Or whatever that is. Yeah.

• 16:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  Kayak for digital assets.

• 16:01David Hoffman?

  Yeah, right.

• 16:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  There you go. And thanks for, thanks for Metamask for supporting Bankless as always. David, what do we have coming up next?

• 16:08David Hoffman?

  Coming up next, what do we have? The Arbitrum airdrop is what we're going to talk about. So we're going to talk about all those details today in about two and hours and 10 minutes. We're going to livestream with the Arbitrum team. So that is available for those that are listening to this on Friday. But then we're going to talk about the banking crises and all about the fallout from that, the joint statement from the FDIC, Signature Bank, whether this is an attack on crypto, Tom Emmer's letter to the FDIC, Jeremy Elers, USCC, and Credit Suisse because the banking crisis hit Europe. And then after that, we got to talk about the New York Attorney General that alleges that Ether is a security, but do we even care about that person? I don't even know. Anyways, all of that and more as soon as we get back from some of these fantastic sponsors that makes this show possible.

• 16:50David Hoffman?

  Kraken has been a leader in the crypto industry for the last 12 years. Dedicated to accelerating the global adoption of crypto, Kraken puts an emphasis on security, transparency, and client support, which is why over 9 million clients have come to love Kraken's products. Whether you're a beginner or a pro, the Kraken UX is simple, intuitive, and frictionless, making the Kraken app a great place for all to get involved and learn about crypto. For those with experience, the redesigned Kraken Pro app and web experience is completely customizable to your trading needs, integrating key trading features into one seamless interface. Kraken has a 24/7/365 client support team that is globally recognized. Kraken support is available wherever, whenever you need them, by phone, chat, or email. And for all

• 17:33David Hoffman?

  of you NFTers out there, the brand new Kraken NFT beta platform gives you the best NFT trading experience possible. Rarity rankings, no gas fees, and the ability to buy an NFT straight with cash. Does your crypto exchange prioritize its customers the way that Kraken does? And if not, sign up with Kraken at kraken.com/bankless. Learning about crypto is hard, until now. Introducing MetaMask Learn, an open educational platform about crypto, Web3, self custody, wallet management, and all the other topics needed to onboard people into this crazy world of crypto. MetaMask Learn is an interactive platform with each lesson offering a simulation for the task at hand, giving you actual practical experience for navigating Web3. The purpose of MetaMask Learn is to teach people the basics of self custody and wallet

• 18:18David Hoffman?

  security in a safe environment. And while MetaMask Learn always takes the time to define Web3-specific vocabulary, it is still a jargon-free experience for the crypto-curious user. Friendly, not scary. MetaMask Learn is available in 10 languages with more to be added soon, and it's meant to cater to a global Web3 audience. So, are you tired of having to explain crypto concepts to your friends? Go to learn.meta mask.io and add MetaMask Learn to your guides to get onboarded into the world of Web3.

• 18:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  Arbitrum has finally announced the long-awaited airdrop. David, is it Layer 2 season? Are we finally here? Can we say that?

• 18:53David Hoffman?

  I think so. So Arbitrum's releasing their token. Optimism just had their base announcement with Coinbase. Two, count them. ZK EVMs go live next week. This is the Layer 2 summer that we have been talking about for like two years now. Finally, finally coming.

• 19:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's happening. It was the summer, just not in summertime. Anyway, the ARB token, that's what they called it, A-R-B, so not RB. I like that, A-R-B. Will finally, will be used to govern over the Arbitrum ecosystem. And yes, it will be airdropped early to users. It launches next Friday, as March 23rd. So, the announcement is today. We know what's going to happen. We know some of the details. David's getting into that. The actual token goes live next Friday.

• 19:39David Hoffman?

  Next Thursday, actually.

• 19:41Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh, is it next Thursday? Okay, sorry, guys. So, next Thursday, by the next rollup, we'll have some actual token information. But David, you know all about this, because you've been talking to Arbitrum. We have him on later. Give us the deets.

• 19:51David Hoffman?

  Yeah, so, okay, 10 billion token supply, 11. something something percent airdropped to users of Arbitrum, 1. something percent airdropped to DAOs on Arbitrum to give to their communities, a significant percentage being given to the DAO Treasury, something like 45%. So if you count the DAO Treasury, or 43%, excuse me. So if you count airdropped to DAOs, users, and the Treasury, which the Treasury is like up to the community to decide, that's something like 56-ish percent. And then investors and the team get something like 45% of total token supply.

• 20:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  How do you like that? Good distribution? What do you think?

• 20:28David Hoffman?

  I'm waiting for the community to respond to that. I know Palenia said that this was a bad distribution, but it's very hard to appease Palenia these days.

• 20:39David Hoffman?

  We would know.

• 20:42David Hoffman?

  But I don't know, so I went into the Small Brains Discord and I was like, yo, how's your guys' reactions to this?

• 20:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is an Arbitrum community, Small Brains.

• 20:49David Hoffman?

  Yeah, Small Brains, yeah, yeah, the Treasury DAO ecosystem. I just went in there and asked for their gut takes and everyone was very, very excited. And so the sentiment is good, strong morale, strong sentiment. I think the community is accepting this. Yeah, that's my take there.

• 21:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, that's the supply. Now, how are they actually distributing the airdrop portion of it, David? Who's getting this? How do I know if I'm eligible?

• 21:11David Hoffman?

  Okay, so there's a bunch of different reasons why one could be eligible for the Arbitrum token. I think you're gonna go ahead and hit that button and we can look at this happen live, Ryan. See how many tokens it's got?

• 21:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right, this is a wallet I've been using, let's see.

• 21:25David Hoffman?

  Hey, 3,000 tokens.

• 21:28Ryan Sean Adams?

  I did five things out of the six things.

• 21:30David Hoffman?

  Yes, but those five things also have tiers inside of them as well. So six different things, each one's with internal tiers. So did you bridge to Arbitrum? So that's pretty binary, like yes or no. You did, it looks like you did not bridge to Arbitrum Nova, so you did not get that qualification. Two different chains.

• 21:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  Not with this wallet, okay?

• 21:49David Hoffman?

  All of your 17 other wallets, yeah. Transactions over time, so you've conducted transactions during two of distinct months. If you did it with six months, you got more. If you did it with nine months, you got even more. than that.

• 22:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  So that's like a usage type thing. How often are you doing this?

• 22:04David Hoffman?

  Yeah, exactly. Next one, transaction frequency and interaction. More than four transactions or interacted with four smart contracts is the base tier. And that goes up to 100 transactions with more than 100 smart contracts for the big power users out there. And so there are four different tiers inside of this criteria.

• 22:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  Got it.

• 22:25David Hoffman?

  Below that is transaction value, 10,000, 50,000, or 250,000 in aggregate transaction volume. So if you only had $1,000, but you transferred that $1,000 around 250 times, you would have gotten the top criteria and then bridged to Arbitrum 1. So assets bridged, if you deposit more than 10,000, 50,000, or 250,000 of assets to Arbitrum 1. And then activity on Arbitrum Nova as well, the other Arbitrum chain.

• 22:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's pretty good.

• 22:53David Hoffman?

  So those are all the criterias. Yeah.

• 22:54Ryan Sean Adams?

  So I got 3,000 arb tokens. And again, they're not awarded right now, so I can't come claim these. I can go claim them next Thursday.

• 23:02David Hoffman?

  Yes, next Thursday, and then you will also delegate to a delegate for governance, which brings us to the conversation of governance. So Arbitrum is licensing Arbitrum technology to the Arbitrum DAO. And so this is actually pretty cool. Not only did they launch their token, they've also launched what they are calling Arbitrum Orbits, which are Arbitrum Layer 3s. So if you choose to build, if you choose to build an Arbitrum rollup and deploy it on the Ethereum Layer 1, so separate from the Arbitrum ecosystem, you must first get approval from the DAO. If you choose to build an Arbitrum rollup and deploy it on Arbitrum 1 or Arbitrum Nova, that is completely permissionless.

• 23:47David Hoffman?

  So you can use Arbitrum technology freely to build on top of Arbitrum pre-existing chains. But if you want to take the Arbitrum technology and build your own independent rollup that settles directly to the Ethereum Layer 1, you must first get DAO approval. By token vote.

• 24:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, let me make sure I understand this. So if we were to create a bankless Arbitrum rollup and our own, apart from Nova, apart from Arbitrum 1, we, it has to go to DAO vote.

• 24:14David Hoffman?

  Yes.

• 24:14Ryan Sean Adams?

  The arb, uh, token holders have to give us, you know, 51% or more.

• 24:18David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 24:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, so if we want to do that, but it is completely permissionless if we want to build our chain. Like, what, a chain on a chain?

• 24:26David Hoffman?

  A layer 3, yeah.

• 24:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  A layer 3.

• 24:28David Hoffman?

  A layer 3, using Arbitrum tech.

• 24:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, on top of?

• 24:31David Hoffman?

  On top of Arbitrum.

• 24:32Ryan Sean Adams?

  On top of Arbitrum 1 or Nova?

• 24:34David Hoffman?

  Permissionless, or Nova, correct.

• 24:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  Permissionless. Interesting. All right. What, what's the intent behind that, do you think?

• 24:41David Hoffman?

  Well, naturally, uh, the value of the Arbitrum chain gets contained by the arb token if you build on, on top of Arbitrum.

• 24:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 24:49David Hoffman?

  One or Nova, but if you build an independent chain, you need to justify why you aren't building inside of the Arbitrum network. Uh, and so the, the DAO will determine whether that effort is legitimate or not.

• 25:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  Fascinating. I think that's very fascinating. Nice experiment. Okay. What else does the arb token do besides vote? Anything? Do I, do I pay transaction fees for it or is that still Ether?

• 25:12David Hoffman?

  Oh, no, that's always going to be Ether. Yeah. The, the other big thing is that there is a multi-sig that backstops the fault, fault proofs for Arbitrum. So Arbitrum fault proofs are actually operational and running. So the chain is legitimately decentralized. We are now in what really? We call a phase 1 of rollup decentralization out of 4, which, which is, uh, live fault proofs.

• 25:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  Are we seeing now an L2 beat?

• 25:37David Hoffman?

  Uh, I don't know if they have that updated that fast.

• 25:41Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, okay.

• 25:42David Hoffman?

  So that is live and running and it's backstopped by a 9 of 12 multi-sig. So it's like, you know, when your kid is like learning to balance on a bicycle, but you keep your hands there. Like, that's what's going. So the kid's balancing, but you still keep your, your hands to catch them there. That's what the multi-sig does.

• 25:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  Did I, did I read this, uh, this group of multi-sig holders? It's called the Security Council?

• 26:02David Hoffman?

  That's correct. It's Security Council.

• 26:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  So if they're attacked, then there is a multi-sig way to kind of like, um, do a, a fast upgrade, some sort of very fast reaction.

• 26:12David Hoffman?

  That's right. Yes.

• 26:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  But, but fraud proofs are happening now.

• 26:16David Hoffman?

  Mm hmm. Correct. Yeah.

• 26:17Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's big.

• 26:18David Hoffman?

  Yeah. And then also, the cool thing about Arbitrum Governance is that this is not Snapshot Vote. This is direct on-chain executable governance. And so you don't have to wait for the team to be like, oh, this is what the community wanted. Let's do it. No, it the A Arbitrum Governance is executable on-chain directly, which is pretty cool.

• 26:39Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, but okay, but like directly on-chain, what's that? What does that mean?

• 26:43David Hoffman?

  What does that mean? As opposed to like DAO Governance, which is like, all right, let's do a Snapshot Vote. Like, oh, this side one, that means we're gonna do this.

• 26:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  Where it's like just a social contract?

• 26:51David Hoffman?

  Yes, exactly. Yeah. No, Arbitrum Token Governance is live on-chain.

• 26:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's binding.

• 26:57David Hoffman?

  It's binding. Correct.

• 26:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's on-chain binding. That's really cool.

• 27:00David Hoffman?

  There's also this brand-new thing called the Arbitrum Constitution. I mean, you can kind of expect what that is. It's the social contract of the DAO. It also sets some terms, AIP, Arbitrum Improvement Prozel. There's the DAO Treasury, Govern Chain, Non-Govern Chain, etc., etc., etc. And so this is all found at docs.arbitrum.foundation. And there's now an Arbitrum Foundation that exists.

• 27:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  Very cool. They really gave this a lot of thought. I can, I can certainly tell this, a big rollout. Okay, let's talk about this. We don't know what the price of the token is at this point in time. But we will, by the next rollup, are there any guesses? Do you have any estimates on what we might be looking at? If you, I guess you could just do comparables of other Layer 2 ecosystems. What would the, the value of my 3,000 arb tokens be?

• 27:50David Hoffman?

  Yeah, so 10 billion Arbitrum tokens. Coincidentally, conveniently, Matic and Optimism are roughly valued kind of close to each other. Matic is valued at $11.4 billion, fully diluted. Optimism is valued at $10.7 billion, fully diluted. Optimism has a lot more of dilution to go. The market cap is much lower than the fully diluted value. But the fully diluted value, I think, is the one to pay attention to for the time being. So if we think that Arbitrum is going to be about valued like these two comparable, like-for-like, one-to-one-ish. That would mean that one arb token is going to be about $1.10 ish. If you think that Arbitrum is equivalent to Matic and Optimism.

• 28:34Ryan Sean Adams?

  So just above a dollar is what?

• 28:37David Hoffman?

  Is, I think that is a safe base case.

• 28:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  Could be more.

• 28:41David Hoffman?

  As a conservative estimation, in my opinion, is like $1.10.

• 28:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  How much supply is hidden? This will be a little more similar to Optimism than to Matic in terms of it, the liquid supply that's on the market. Is that right?

• 28:54David Hoffman?

  Yeah, Matic is like, they've gone, Matic has gone through price discovery and so.

• 28:58Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's an old token, that's why. The older the token, the more distribution is in the hands of kind of the open market and the less is locked up and kind of insiders and investors and that sort of thing.

• 29:08David Hoffman?

  Yeah, that's, that's right. And so the market cap of Matic Polygon is 10.3 billion, where the fully diluted value is 11.3 billion. So it's like 90% issued, right?

• 29:17Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 29:18David Hoffman?

  Optimism is a fully diluted value of 10.5 billion with a market cap of 750 million.

• 29:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  Under 10%.

• 29:26David Hoffman?

  So under 10% totally issued. Arbitrum is coming in with a 12% airdrop. So they are going to be a little bit ahead of Optimism in total, total amount, actually live circulating and trading. And so they'll still have a lot more to go in terms of price discovery. Optimism's price discovery is, there's a lot of price discovery in the Optimism token, like already baked in. Arbitrum is going to be about, a little bit more ahead, but about the same. And so I think there's a lot more DeFi and financial activity on Arbitrum than Optimism. I think it's safe to assume, this is my estimation, I have no idea what the market is going to do, obviously.

• 30:10David Hoffman?

  Like one, a like for like comparable of one to one for Arbitrum to Optimism in Polygon is very safe and conservative. I think we could, it would be reasonable to assume a two to one valuation.

• 30:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  A two to one valuation.

• 30:23David Hoffman?

  So $2, $2.25 for arb, depending on how manic the, are the community is and how many tokens they want to purchase on the secondary.

• 30:32Ryan Sean Adams?

  Who knows? And who knows what the initial price might be, right? That's all up to the market to decide. We have a fantastic report the bank was put out, if you want to get the details on that. Cause I think if, if you received airdrop, the not financial advice question is, what do I do with it? Do I hold it? Do I sell it?

• 30:47David Hoffman?

  You definitely delegate it.

• 30:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  Definitely doubt. Well, that would require not selling. So, but yeah, so you can,

• 30:55David Hoffman?

  I think you have to delegate the claim, however. So.

• 30:57Ryan Sean Adams?

  You know, Arbitrum's DeFi moat, that is a really interesting thing. I mean, for me personally, not like I would not sell my ARP tokens. I mean, like it's layer two seasons, just getting started, my friends. And Arbitrum is one of the most promising layer twos out there. Not financial advice, never is, of course, but we have some videos on the bankless website you can go check out. We're talking to their team, we're recording that a little bit later. That should be live by the time you get this episode. And the last thing I'll say is if you want an automatic notification system of when your Arbitrum airdrop dropped, you just got to go to earn.

• 31:39Ryan Sean Adams?

  earni.fi. So that is E A R N I dot F I.

• 31:46David Hoffman?

  Ryan, what's earnify?

• 31:48Ryan Sean Adams?

  Earnify is the ultimate airdrop finder for you. Okay. It just, it's like a super robot that just alerts you when you have an airdrop in your particular address, when you're eligible, because most airdrops, people never get an opportunity to claim. So go check that out. There's a, there'll be a link in the show notes, of course. Earnify is a bankless property now. So we're really excited about that tech and, and the value it's delivering to the bankless nation. Wow. Cool day. Very good.

• 32:19David Hoffman?

  That was, so it's nice to have fun things to talk about, fun and happy things. But now we're gonna have to go on to the sad things.

• 32:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is a joint statement by the Treasury, the Federal Reserve, and the FDIC. Those are all the big ones. Big Gov telling us something on March 12th. Was that Sunday? Did they issue that on a Sunday?

• 32:38David Hoffman?

  Sunday evening, 6:15 Eastern. Basically, the last moment that they had to issue the statement before people were going to get real crazy Monday morning when markets opened up.

• 32:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right. So what happened for people who didn't catch our episode that we did on Monday about the banking crisis? Can you just give us the highlights of what actually happened from the last roll up until now?

• 32:59David Hoffman?

  So right after we've recorded their last roll up, Silvergate, excuse me, Silicon Valley Bank had a run on the bank and people realized that this bank was going to legitimately run out of money to give to people that had cash in Silicon Valley Bank. And so that caused just a bunch of just fear because many of startups in the crypto space and just overall startups in general bank with Silicon Valley Bank. Some of the startups that you and I, Ryan, have been made and invested in have used Silicon Valley Bank as their bank. No longer because that bank is gone. But people were very, very worried that this would create contagion. And so this run on the bank would create runs on other banks because the reason

• 33:44David Hoffman?

  why Silicon Valley Bank went under was because of a common theme, a common structure that many, many banks have, which is long dated securities, long dated maturity securities, treasuries that are like 10 year treasuries, five year treasuries, long term treasuries versus short term treasuries. And so when they bought these long term treasuries and then the Federal Reserve jacked up interest rates, those long term treasuries and other securities that were all like long term time horizons went down in value quite a lot. And so that created a big hole. And then people needed to withdraw their cash at some point in time.

• 34:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  And they did it fast.

• 34:25David Hoffman?

  And they did it fast. Well, because people started to realize that there's not a lot of money left. So they had to, you know,

• 34:29Ryan Sean Adams?

  And because we can. It was social media that when the VCs are typing in all caps, like, there's a run on the bank, you know, withdraw your funds.

• 34:37David Hoffman?

  That's what happens. A run on the bank.

• 34:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, people don't literally show up, although there were some people actually showing up at the branches of Silicon Valley Bank. But like, people are just withdrawing electronically. Wire transfers, doing it as fast as possible. That's what the run on the bank was. So we had Silvergate, then Silicon Valley Bank. There was another one as well.

• 34:57David Hoffman?

  So this was the surprise in this statement here from the joint statement was that Signature Bank was also announced in this statement that they have also shuttered Signature In addition to Silicon Valley Bank.

• 35:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  Who shut it down?

• 35:12David Hoffman?

  Surprise. The Fed, the FDIC. And so not only did they take control, seize Silicon Valley Bank. And then here's the big thing about the statement is that FDIC insurance, which is usually a quarter million dollars. They effectively just raised it to infinity for these two banks. So they took the Fed took over Silicon Valley and Signature Bank and said, hey, if you have money in this bank, even if it's over $250,000, you will totally be insured and we will give you your money back. Starting on Monday, and that's what quelled the fears. And that's what stopped the bank run. But it was really this Signature Bank shutdown, which was a kind of a surprise because it wasn't Signature that had a run on the bank. It was Silicon Valley Bank.

• 35:55David Hoffman?

  And so the feds said that well, Signature Bank was also under stress. And so they seized that one as well.

• 36:02Ryan Sean Adams?

  All these banks that start with an S, I think are cursed. So just quick recap. So last week, early last week, Silvergate Bank, dead. That was a crypto focused bank. Next, Silicon Valley Bank, run on the bank. That happened Friday, was shut down. The Fed came in and then all weekend, everyone, the entire market was left to panic. Right?

• 36:21David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 36:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  USDC trades office peg, VC shouting like, what's going to happen? What about the depositors? Everyone's panicking because they still have funds in Silicon Valley Bank. And we don't know if depositors are going to have that deposit guaranteed. And then the Fed comes out late in the evening on Sunday, before markets start, at least traditional markets start. Crypto was trading during this whole time, never shuts down. And they, they say, nope, depositors, we're going to make them whole for Silicon Valley Bank. Oh, and by the way, we're shutting down preemptively Signature Bank. That's what this is. So the question is like Signature Bank, why Signature Bank? Was this a, was this a targeted attack?

• 37:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  Or was Signature Bank just as weak as Silicon Valley Bank?

• 37:07David Hoffman?

  So when I read this statement, my initial reaction was, well, the reason why they would take over Silicon Valley Bank and promise infinite insurance to all depositors is because They are the worry of a contagion event of many, many runs on many banks is legitimate. And that's why they would do this. So therefore it does make sense that there is another bank that is also under duress that is not sufficiently liquid to give deposit, uh, give depositors their money back. So that to me makes sense.

• 37:38Ryan Sean Adams?

  It could be signature.

• 37:39David Hoffman?

  At a high level.

• 37:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  Anything, right?

• 37:40David Hoffman?

  Right. Um, other takes have come out with other information that this was an opportunistic takedown of a crypto bank, uh, which if you take the other side of this perspective, well, we were starting January and February talking about Operation Choke Point 2.0 and how the Fed and the Treasury was trying to come after politically, uh, uh, service, banking services that would bank crypto customers. And so, well, it now it kind of makes sense that they would do this regardless of the actual financial condition. And so people have passed this back and forth. Um, and so this is part of this story here. Uh, here's Nick Carter's take, which is talking about former Senator Barney Frank of Dodd-Frank, the Dodd-Frank Act openly

• 38:22David Hoffman?

  admits that Signature was arbitrarily shuttered despite no insolvency because regulators wanted to kill off the last major pro crypto bank. He is not a crypto person. He does not care about our industry. So this is like a decently unbiased take is that he said that there's no real objective reason that Signature Bank had to be seized, which is a big statement from this, the Frank of Dodd-Frank to say.

• 38:44Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is Barney Frank, like pulling the finger at the Fed and the US government and saying, this is a direct quote. I think part of what happened was that regulators wanted to send a very strong anti crypto message. Barney Frank saying this, this is not crypto zealot saying this. We became the poster boy because there was no insolvency based on the fundamentals. Interesting allegation.

• 39:04David Hoffman?

  We is because he is at Silvergate. He is a board member of Silvergate.

• 39:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  He's at Signature.

• 39:09David Hoffman?

  Signature.

• 39:10Ryan Sean Adams?

  We get our S's. There's so many S's here with, with, with these banks.

• 39:13David Hoffman?

  Yes. And so officials, Fed officials saying crypto had nothing to do with the Signature takedown. Uh, but then in this article, it stated that any buyer of Signature Bank who wants to buy this distressed bank must agree to give up all the crypto businesses at that bank. Uh, okay.

• 39:29Ryan Sean Adams?

  Oh my God. I didn't know that, know that.

• 39:31David Hoffman?

  Not, not looking great. Not looking great.

• 39:33Ryan Sean Adams?

  So some, the like, the traditional way to kind of. I'm gonna say bailout, but save depositors as a bank is to have a bigger bank buy it, buy all the depositors' assets, right? And this is saying that maybe any buyer of Signature has to agree to give up all the crypto business at the bank.

• 39:52David Hoffman?

  Businesses fail, sick.

• 39:53Ryan Sean Adams?

  How is this legal?

• 39:55David Hoffman?

  Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. So here is Zero Hedge commenting on that recent Nick Carter take. Crypto is now a political issue. The Democrats want to crush it and the Republicans, GOP, will use that in 2024. We'll see what that happens when the elections come around.

• 40:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  I hope this doesn't become a left versus right thing.

• 40:13David Hoffman?

  Is Congressman Tom Emmer, Republican, saying, "Today I sent a letter to FDIC Chairman Grunberg regarding reports that the FDIC is weaponizing recent instability in the banking sector to purge legal activity from the United States." So Tom Emmer, member of Congress, also we are in talks with him about coming on Bankless, so we will talk to him directly soon.

• 40:33Ryan Sean Adams?

  I think he's coming on next Friday, David.

• 40:35David Hoffman?

  But that is not all. So here's Jake Chervinsky tweeting out, "Today, the Blockchain Association sent FOIA requests," that is Freedom of Information Act requests, "to the Fed, the FDIC, and OCC, demanding information about the unlawful banking of crypto companies. We are collecting evidence of de-banking. Share your story with us." And he gives an email to do that, [email protected], plus a threat. So whether or not that this was a run on Signature Bank, or this was a targeted political takedown of one of the few remaining crypto banks, sounds like we're going to get down to the bottom of it because we have the Blockchain Association with Freedom of Information, because we live in a democracy, and also a congressman going after this as well. So.

• 41:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  The sleuths are on the case.

• 41:21David Hoffman?

  We will find this out.

• 41:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  We'll see if the allegations are true. Yep, Jake Chervinsky here tweeting, "There are troubling reports of crypto companies having their bank accounts closed with no notice and explanation, and this is a disturbing trend suggesting that regulators are trying to cut crypto entirely out of the banking system. Not legal to target an industry like that and to target a specific set of depositors." David, let's. Go back to the USDC story, though, because that hit crypto. Of course, crypto didn't stop trading. USDC was still trading against other stablecoin assets. Dropped down to 88 cents. We had Jeremy Allaire on the podcast earlier, but this is his statement that he issued

• 42:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  right after that Fed letter was sent out that all depositors at Silicon Valley and Signature Bank would be made whole. What's the story for USDC here?

• 42:15David Hoffman?

  Yeah, so I pulled out three tweets out of his thread that I thought were worth stating. 100% of USDC reserves are safe and sound, and we will complete our transfer of remaining SVB Silicon Valley Bank cash to BNY Mellon, much bigger, bigger bank. With the closure of Signature Bank announced tonight, we will not be able to process minting and reductions through Signet, which is a product from Signature Bank. Signature Network is what it was. It was a product to facilitate inter-customer transfers instantaneously inside of Signature Bank. So like, Wintermu, I believe, is a customer of Signet, no longer because it's down. And so like, you could have instant bank transfers across clients. Since that is-

• 42:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  Isn't Signet still up? It's just being operated now by BNY Mellon?

• 43:01David Hoffman?

  Apparently it's still up and running, but they are no longer depending on that. So they are now taking on settlements through BNY Mellon. And then lastly, indeed, the Payment Stablecoin Act, which remains a very active pursuit in Congress, would enshrine a law, a regime where stablecoin funds, AKA USDC, would be held with cash at the Fed and short-term T-bills. We need this law now more than ever if we truly want a safe financial system. I think it's worth noting that like, two banks that served, Circle went down and Circle persists and is trading at a dollar.

• 43:36Ryan Sean Adams?

  Just one step ahead. All you gotta do is switch your bank out.

• 43:39David Hoffman?

  And now it's at BNY Mellon, man. And so like, they are just climbing the ladder of bigger and bigger and safer banks. Like, USDC is an increasingly safe place to hold your money.

• 43:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, now, basically, one USDC is as good as a bank in a too-big-to-fail financial banking system. So basically, you know USDC is going to get- Depositor bailed out if anything goes wrong, as long as the US banking structure holds.

• 44:03David Hoffman?

  As long as they don't become overly draconian about crypto.

• 44:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah. Right, exactly. Anyway, the full story with Jeremy Allaire is actually on the Bankless Podcast. I learned so much about USDC.

• 44:14David Hoffman?

  That was one of the hardest, the most hard hitting 30 minutes podcast. It was a very short podcast and he was just like dropping the information.

• 44:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  Here's what happened over the last five years.

• 44:22David Hoffman?

  We asked like two questions in 30 minutes and he answered more questions than I had.

• 44:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, go check that out. Of course, this is a centralized stablecoin. This is not a decentralized stablecoin, but that is still important in the crypto ecosystem as well.

• 44:35David Hoffman?

  For like, Jeremy is a crypto person. He is our Trojan horse into TradFi.

• 44:41Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, that's how we do it. They're still paying ETH gas fees. They're still burning ETH, aren't they? Okay, so this contagion has maybe spread to Europe. What's the story here as we, as we record this, David?

• 44:51David Hoffman?

  Yeah, so Credit Suisse under duress in Europe. Credit Suisse, perhaps not the most like legitimate bank out there. Perhaps did some money laundering.

• 45:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  Are you costing a run on the bank right now, David?

• 45:02David Hoffman?

  Perhaps, perhaps could have facilitated more legitimate financial transactions. I don't know. Could, could have been better anyways. They, the shares of Credit Suisse hit all time lows, but then the stock price resurged because the Swiss central bank agreed to loan the bank up to 50 billion francs, $54 billion, to bolster confidence in the country's second largest lender, following the collapse of two other banks is the article. So Credit Suisse not looking great, but they also needed, needed to bail out from a central bank.

• 45:32Ryan Sean Adams?

  The, the weak banks are shaky, right? But, but I do think, I mean, central banks, whatever country you're in, are going to bail out depositors. They can't afford to have banking contagion spread across all of their respective countries. So I think that's the story here. There's a story about stock prices of the big banks as well. What are we looking at here?

• 45:50David Hoffman?

  A bunch of lines going down into the right of JP Morgan, Bank of America, Citigroup, Wells Fargo, Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs. Not one of them is better than negative 10%.

• 46:01Ryan Sean Adams?

  Bank, bank stock slide. Ryan Selkis had a take here. Well, bank stock slide, what was crypto doing last week?

• 46:09David Hoffman?

  Up 10%.

• 46:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  Down 10 to 20% versus up 10% for crypto. Well, I mean, like, doesn't this expose, is this a narrative trade? Doesn't this, I think it's a few things. I think, one, it's a little bit of a narrative trade. People waking up and being like, well, how safe is my money? Number two, I think this indicates a more dovish Fed moving forward. How much can Powell actually increase rates? Which is, of course, good for risk on assets like crypto. Here we go. FedNow. What is FedNow? And how does that link to the story of what we've been talking about, David?

• 46:43David Hoffman?

  FedNow is like, as close as you get to a CBDC without actually making a CBDC.

• 46:50Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's not, it's like, it's not a CBDC in itself, is it? It's like a sidechain.

• 46:57David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 46:57Ryan Sean Adams?

  For digital bank dollars.

• 46:59David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 46:59Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yes?

• 47:00David Hoffman?

  Yeah, it's like a transaction sidechain for the Fed. Instant payment service from FedNow starting in July aims to reduce the gap in payment time between United States financial institutions. This instant payment network will settle payments in seconds and support transactions between consumers, merchants, and banks, does not rely on blockchain. So the conspiracy here, Ryan, is that Signature Bank was taken by the Fed. Conveniently, FedNow service is announced.

• 47:28Ryan Sean Adams?

  Just rolling it out.

• 47:29David Hoffman?

  Huh.

• 47:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  FedNow is government tech.

• 47:34David Hoffman?

  Right. It's government Signet.

• 47:36Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's a government sidechain. It's like, it's like Signet made their own private sidechain to facilitate these, these banking transactions and to settle kind of, I guess, crypto payments in the, in the US banking system. This is Damon Namm expressing that Silvergate had Silvergate Exchange Network, Signature had Signet, both were private networks for companies to transfer value between each other using digital assets. Where are both now? These companies enabled alternative currencies that threaten a CBDC and FedNow. That's the conspiracy theory, that maybe the Feds were trying to take this new network down before it blossomed into something bigger.

• 48:16David Hoffman?

  I will leave this up to the imagination of the listener.

• 48:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  David, is Ether a security? All right, this was buzzing last week as well because New York Attorney General alleged that Ether is a security.

• 48:27David Hoffman?

  So someone who does not get to determine what a security is, alleged that Ether is a security. That should be what the headline is.

• 48:34Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, so what's the take here? What's going on?

• 48:37David Hoffman?

  So the New York Attorney General is suing Kucoin, an exchange, saying that it violated securities laws by offering tokens that meet the definition of a security without registering with the Attorney General's office. What were those tokens? Luna, well, no one's going to defend that one, U S T, and Ether. Like, just lumping all those things together as if they're the same. And they have argued that Ether is a security. That, why is Ether a security? Well, because the value of Ether is dependent on efforts of others, including co-founder Vitalik Buterin and the Ethereum Foundation. Which, man, are we talking to a Bitcoin maxi or are we talking to the New York Attorney General? I can't tell the difference.

• 49:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's important to realize these are just court filings to try to prove a case. So it's not even necessarily

• 49:21David Hoffman?

  Kind of cringe, actually.

• 49:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  A statement. I, I feel like it made headlines because of the name. It's a, you know,

• 49:27David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 49:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  New York Attorney General of the name. Not that this is actually, she doesn't have the power to do this, basically. It'd just be like me tweeting Bitcoin is a security. I don't have the power to, I declare a security.

• 49:40David Hoffman?

  I declare.

• 49:41Ryan Sean Adams?

  It doesn't work like that, guys. This is pretty bad, yeah, that, you know, the statement, you can read the details. And there's some analysis this week of what happens if Ether is a security.

• 49:51David Hoffman?

  It's just, it's, it's not, it's just an illegitimate question. Like, what happens if Ether is a security? It's not, nothing's gonna happen.

• 50:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, I guess if somehow the US government all colludes as part of this extended operation choke point to choke off crypto and somehow is able to like declare Ether a security and that is not defeated in the court system, then what happens? The US is eliminated from the crypto race. Like, it's not going to kill Ethereum long-term. And by the way, I think that, like, I give the odds of that happening, like, 1%, 2% maybe. Like, it's probably not worth thinking about. That's my current take. I mean, I could be wrong about that.

• 50:35David Hoffman?

  It's not worth thinking about, yeah.

• 50:36Ryan Sean Adams?

  But it's just a lot of noise. And speaking of noise, Gary Gensler is saying some of this same noise as well. What's Gary saying?

• 50:45David Hoffman?

  He's saying that proof of stake tokens are securities. And so, returns that token holders see from staking indicate that these tokens are securities, according to Gensler, and would need to be registered under US securities laws. Whether they're promoting or putting into a protocol and locking up their tokens in a protocol, that's often a small group of entrepreneurs and developing are developed, that often a small group of entrepreneurs and developers are developing. I would suggest that each of these token operators seek to come into compliance, and the same with the intermediaries. Like, at this point, this is just the Gary stump speech, like, oh, crypto is security.

• 51:20Ryan Sean Adams?

  I declare a security.

• 51:21David Hoffman?

  I declare. Also, Gary can't also, who, does Gary get to determine who, what is a security?

• 51:27Ryan Sean Adams?

  No, he doesn't.

• 51:28David Hoffman?

  No, not even Gary gets to determine that. What is, what is that determined by? Courts, right? Am I right on that one?

• 51:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  It should be. I think Gary can prosecute, but then he has to prove his case in court. And who are you going to prosecute with Ethereum? How does that even work?

• 51:43David Hoffman?

  You're going to take Vitalik Vitor into court? Okay.

• 51:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  Man, I wouldn't like to see that, but at some, at some level.

• 51:50David Hoffman?

  To see Vitalik, okay, so when Vitalik brings out, I've seen Vitalik bring out claws sometimes, like, against Bitcoin maxies, or when he does it.

• 51:59Ryan Sean Adams?

  Like claws, claws in a, like, a way that's like, I'm going to rationally destroy your article, your argument in front of you, sort of, right?

• 52:06David Hoffman?

  In a very concise way, and it's, and it's going to, I'm going, I'm going to verbally pants you. That's, that's the right way to do it. Verbally, Vitalik has, I've seen Vitalik verbally pants people a number of times. It is, it is just an absolute dream of, a daydream to imagine that he could might be able to do that for Gary Gensler one time.

• 52:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  I think this could happen in Congress one day. But like, anyway, I don't want to put Vitalik in that situation. This is all stupid noise. Anyway, it's not worth anyone's time. David, we got a lot coming up next. What are we covering?

• 52:36David Hoffman?

  Starbucks sold 2,000 NFTs inside of 20 minutes. We have a withdrawal date. Did you know that, Ryan? In the middle of the Arbitrum airdrop, like everyone's talking about Arbitrum today, we also got the date for

• 52:47Ryan Sean Adams?

  I just learned that by reading the roll up agenda today.

• 52:51David Hoffman?

  So we're going to talk about when withdrawals are going to be enabled, where sadly, we're going to have to talk about Euler and the hack there. And Aztec is sunsetting Aztec Connect, but perhaps for something better. So we're going to get to all these updates and more as soon as we talk to some of these fantastic sponsors that make the show possible. Uniswap is the largest on-chain marketplace for self-custody digital assets. Uniswap is, of course, a decentralized exchange, but you know this because you've been listening to bankless. But did you know that the Uniswap web app has a shiny new fiat on-ramp? Now you could go directly from fiat in your bank to tokens in DeFi inside of Uniswap. Not only that, but Polygon, Arbitrum, and Optimism Layer 2s are supported right out of the gate. But that's just DeFi.

• 53:34David Hoffman?

  Uniswap is also an NFT aggregator, letting you find more listings for the best prices across the NFT world. With Uniswap, you can sweep floors on multiple NFTs and Uniswap's universal router will optimize your gas fees for you. Uniswap is making it as easy as possible to go from bank account to bankless assets across Ethereum. And we couldn't be more thankful for having them as a sponsor. So go to app.uniswap.org today to buy, sell, or swap tokens and NFTs. The Phantom Wallet is coming to Ethereum. The number one wallet on Solana is bringing its millions of users and beloved UX to Ethereum and Polygon. If you haven't used Phantom before, you've been missing out. Phantom was one of the first wallets to pioneer Solana staking inside the wallet

• 54:19David Hoffman?

  and will be offering similar staking features for Ethereum and Polygon. But that's just staking. Phantom is also the best home for your NFTs. Phantom has a complete set of Features to optimize your NFT experience. Pin your favorites, hide your uglies, burn the spam, and also manage your NFT sale listings from inside the wallet. Phantom is of course a multi-chain wallet, but it makes chain management easy, displaying your transactions in a human readable format with automatic warnings for malicious transactions or phishing websites. Phantom has already saved over 20,000 users from getting scammed or hacked. So get on the Phantom waitlist and be one of the first to access the multi-chain beta. There's a link in the show notes, or you can go to phantom.app/ waitlist to get access.

• 54:59Ryan Sean Adams?

  Here we go. When is the next Ethereum hard fork, David? When can I withdraw Stake ETH?

• 55:04David Hoffman?

  Specifically at block number 6,209,536. That is your answer.

• 55:12Ryan Sean Adams?

  Thank you.

• 55:13David Hoffman?

  Maybe you're asking, when is that?

• 55:15Ryan Sean Adams?

  Thank you, Chat David GPT. Very precise.

• 55:18David Hoffman?

  Yeah, that is going to be April 12th. So a little bit over, under one month away from today. Today is the 16th of March. April 12th is when withdrawals happen.

• 55:30Ryan Sean Adams?

  We have a date.

• 55:30David Hoffman?

  Lido, however, also has to upgrade its own smart contracts to enable withdrawals, to enable withdrawals, right? And so Lido is targeting mid-May to allow for Ether to come out of the Lido DAO. So that's the news there.

• 55:45Ryan Sean Adams?

  So there could be a delay. That's happening in May, even though the rest of the Ethereum protocol is upgrading earlier.

• 55:51David Hoffman?

  Right, correct.

• 55:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  Gotcha. Let's talk about some sad news. This is, I think, really devastating for a really cool DeFi builder team, Euler Labs. What happened, David? What's the news?

• 56:02David Hoffman?

  Yeah, Euler, it's a money market, kind of like Compound and Aave, with some cool new mechanisms, much more governance minimized with new liquidation schemes that all of the big brains out there think are pretty cool. It was definitely growing in popularity. It was dominating in the Stake ETH, in the Stake ETH world. Really great team. Ryan and I are investors in Euler, so disclaimer, I guess, for that. $196 million drained in Thigh, USCC, Stake ETH, and WBTC. This is so far the largest hack of 2023. And so they did their best to plug the hole, but not, not before $196 million.

• 56:43Ryan Sean Adams?

  How did it happen? How did it happen?

• 56:46David Hoffman?

  I mean, I'm beyond my capacity to understand the exploit here.

• 56:51Ryan Sean Adams?

  It was a flash loan.

• 56:53David Hoffman?

  Yeah, it was a flash loan to start. And then, yeah, some sort of exploit in the code. It has since been plugged. So that's that vulnerability is now gone. But I mean.

• 57:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  But here's what's crazy. So they had audits of their smart contracts, six audits of their smart contract. And this functionality was existing eight months. So it had a Lindy of about eight months live with tens of millions of dollars. And this whole amount has been drained. So a lot of DeFi users affected by this. This is, I should emphasize, like, some of the hacks that we've seen over the years are kind of like protocols that are just fast and loose. They don't take security into account. They're not, they're making obvious, you know, trade offs and they're obviously flawed. Euler's not one of those.

• 57:46David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 57:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  These are one of the, the teams that are doing it the right way. And it happened to them.

• 57:51David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 57:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  This is.

• 57:53David Hoffman?

  When you see six audits and it still gets hacked, that's just, man, like, smart contracts. Like, the, the only good metaphor I've heard for smart contracts is like, they're the, like, the CM engine. Like, they just blow up a bunch and then one day they start working. This one sadly blew up.

• 58:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  Devastating. And I guess we have to emphasize, right? There's just DeFi is taking this on the chin. Of course, this was a mistake. Obviously, there was a flaw in the way that this was constructed. And what we always end every episode with is crypto is risky. So is DeFi. You could lose everything. That's what we say. And this is another reminder of that. Be careful in these new crypto ecosystems, the new frontier. People get hurt sometimes.

• 58:37David Hoffman?

  So Euler is offering a $1 million bounty that goes to anything that leads to the arrest of this hacker. As of this morning, Ryan, we are watching the funds go through tornado cash, which more or less indicates that the hacker has no intention of returning the funds whatsoever. The likelihood that this is North Korea is like, I mean, I get

• 59:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  You think it could be a state actor?

• 59:02David Hoffman?

  It's North Korea.

• 59:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  You think the FBI is on the case?

• 59:04David Hoffman?

  Yeah. I mean, they've already, they've, they've talked to chain analysis, they've talked to law enforcement, they've talked to Coinbase's like chain, chain analysis equivalent. I mean, the fact that it's immediately going through tornado cash, my money is on this is North Korea.

• 59:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  Wow. Upsetting. Definitely. David, what about Aztec? So they are sunsetting Aztec Connect. I don't think this is bad news necessarily, but I was confused when I saw this.

• 59:32David Hoffman?

  Yeah. People are like, oh, Aztec, they're getting shut, shut down by law enforcement or regulators?

• 59:38Ryan Sean Adams?

  Because they're a privacy protocol, a layer two privacy protocol.

• 59:41David Hoffman?

  Yes. So like tornado cash, but if it was in a whole entire chain. So they are Sunset Aztec Connect and ZK Pay, Aztec Pay, which is like basically tornado cash, but better. But they are doing this to build a next generation encrypted ZK rollup. And so they are basically sunsetting this thing that was a really good stepping stone for what is about to come, which is probably like the most sophisticated privacy technology on Ethereum. And so this is just the prelude to that, if you will.

• 1:00:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  NFT stuff. Starbucks sold 2,000 NFTs in 20 minutes. This is pretty big. What happened here?

• 1:00:20David Hoffman?

  2,000 NFTs priced at $100 each, sold out in 20 minutes. 2,000 digital stamps, journey stamps. I can't say that I know what these do.

• 1:00:32Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah. Do they get you coffee? They don't get you coffee?

• 1:00:34David Hoffman?

  I don't know what they get.

• 1:00:36Ryan Sean Adams?

  Let me look at these journey stamps. Secondary marketplace. Look at this. Floor price of $650. Oh, they're very, very pretty.

• 1:00:44David Hoffman?

  Oh, wow. Those are pretty. Those are pretty.

• 1:00:46Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's like the Starbucks mermaid.

• 1:00:48David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  Different manifestations.

• 1:00:50David Hoffman?

  Yeah. What, what do they get you?

• 1:00:53Ryan Sean Adams?

  Starbucks clout?

• 1:00:56David Hoffman?

  If you're not a Starbucks Odyssey member, you can join a waitlist. So something about a Starbucks Odyssey. I mean, Starbucks doesn't have great coffee, but they hate.

• 1:01:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  David is too much of a coffee snog to buy this Starbucks NFT.

• 1:01:09David Hoffman?

  That is exactly right.

• 1:01:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah. Epic, the creators of Fortnite have also close to 20 crypto games in their store pipeline? That's pretty big, David.

• 1:01:17David Hoffman?

  Yeah. Okay. So over the last like six, nine months, I've been like, oh, everyone's talking about crypto gaming is the next big thing. And I was like, okay, that's a fun narrative. Like, let's see if it plays out. After going to East Denver, after hearing news like this and talking to some other people about what's going on, like not this in my mind has gone from narrative to no, this is real.

• 1:01:37Ryan Sean Adams?

  You're game.

• 1:01:38David Hoffman?

  There was a game at East Denver that was absolutely beautiful for those who like Dark Souls. It looked a lot like Dark Souls. That all the assets in the game were NFTs on a blockchain. I'm like, that did not.

• 1:01:49Ryan Sean Adams?

  All I gotta say is like, well-balanced economic games are fun.

• 1:01:53David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:53Ryan Sean Adams?

  They're just fun. Like I, even when I'm playing like crypto, it feels like a game sometimes. It's just one giant economic game and it's a lot of fun. It's cool that Epic is doing stuff here. On the opposite end of the spectrum, though, Meta is ending NFT support on Instagram.

• 1:02:09David Hoffman?

  Dude, what?

• 1:02:11Ryan Sean Adams?

  Instagram. It seemed like only yesterday you just deployed this.

• 1:02:15David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 1:02:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  Product news from a product lead at Meta. Some product news across the company. We're looking closely at what we prioritize. And including our focus, we're winding down digital collectibles to focus on other ways to support creators, people and businesses. I'm disappointed by this.

• 1:02:32David Hoffman?

  Yeah. It's what were people just not using it very much?

• 1:02:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  I don't know. Uh, maybe people weren't using it. Maybe.

• 1:02:39David Hoffman?

  It's kind of a bummer.

• 1:02:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  I mean, they got in at the top and they're leaving at the bottom.

• 1:02:44David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:45Ryan Sean Adams?

  The, the, the simple take is just tourists are tourists and settlers are settlers. And it seemed like, it seems like Meta is, is maybe acting like a tourist in crypto right now.

• 1:02:56David Hoffman?

  Man, well, they say at the bottom of this, they say, and look forward to supporting the many NFT creators who use Gold Pass It. But like they said, looking forward to support. Yeah. Who using Instagram and Facebook to amplify their work. Well. But you just took away the feature.

• 1:03:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  They they support you, though.

• 1:03:15David Hoffman?

  Like morally?

• 1:03:17Ryan Sean Adams?

  I don't know. My take is this is a big opportunity for Web 3 social. If Web 2 social is going to say, bye bye to NFTs, that's fine. It's bigger opportunity for decentralized networks. This is, by the way, like the same week that Meta and Zuckerberg announced that they're going to build some sort of decentralized social media thing.

• 1:03:35David Hoffman?

  I'm right. Some Twitter alternative.

• 1:03:37Ryan Sean Adams?

  All confusing to me. We'll see what plays out.

• 1:03:39David Hoffman?

  Fourth tweet, because this doesn't make any sense. Let me be clear. Creating opportunities for creators and businesses to connect with their fans and monetize remains a priority, and we're going to focus on areas that we can make impact at scale, such as messaging and monetization opportunities for Reels.

• 1:03:54Ryan Sean Adams?

  Hmm.

• 1:03:55David Hoffman?

  Okay, maybe I am an NFT daydreamer optimist.

• 1:04:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yes, you are.

• 1:04:01David Hoffman?

  But this seems to be the opposite of that. Hey, we're going to not do anything in Web 3, and we're going to go back to Web 2 and focus on that to, you know, help support our creators.

• 1:04:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  Pretty regressive. Tourists leave, settlers stay. That's all I got to say. It's a good time to shout out the Bankless collectors. We're doing experiments in NFTs.

• 1:04:21David Hoffman?

  It's working for us, Meta. We're doing it just fine.

• 1:04:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  Look at the top collectors here. Should we shout them out for a second?

• 1:04:27David Hoffman?

  Absolutely.

• 1:04:28Ryan Sean Adams?

  Who do we got here?

• 1:04:29David Hoffman?

  How many? How many podcasts have we actually tokenized yet? I think like six or, excuse me, like 10 or 11 or something.

• 1:04:36Ryan Sean Adams?

  And then we did five last year, our Genesis collection. Who are the top collectors that you want to read about?

• 1:04:40David Hoffman?

  Lyward.eth. We've just figured out how to pronounce his name, Lyward. 36 tokens, 36, coming in at number one, 36. Coming in at number two at 32 tokens is Landron.eth. So thank you for guys for being one and two. The race is on. We also got Coker.eth at 20 tokens, Vault. dietercrux.eth and Automagic.eth. 20, 19 and 18 tokens. So they're the top five collectors. We really appreciate the support, guys.

• 1:05:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  Thank you, Bankless Nation collectors. Fidelity Crypto quietly went live, giving millions of retail customers access to Bitcoin and Ether. I didn't even notice this happened.

• 1:05:20David Hoffman?

  This one was quiet.

• 1:05:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  This was a quiet thing.

• 1:05:22David Hoffman?

  Your swap was not quiet.

• 1:05:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  No, this was quiet. Okay, so Fidelity is absolutely massive. 37 million retail accounts. What do they do? They just added a buy button for Bitcoin and Ether inside of their app.

• 1:05:34David Hoffman?

  Bullish.

• 1:05:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  Where are they custoding this, David? Do you know this?

• 1:05:37David Hoffman?

  I do not know.

• 1:05:38Ryan Sean Adams?

  I think Fidelity has their own custody thing, too, don't they? What if they're using that or something like Coinbase? I don't know.

• 1:05:43David Hoffman?

  I do not know. I do not know. I mean, this isn't bullish yet because the, no offense to Fidelity customers, but I will call them the herd.

• 1:05:55Ryan Sean Adams?

  Hey, I'm a Fidelity customer.

• 1:05:57David Hoffman?

  Yeah, but you also have a Kraken account, I'm assuming. And so where do you do your buys, Ryan, in Fidelity or Kraken?

• 1:06:03Ryan Sean Adams?

  Always Kraken.

• 1:06:04David Hoffman?

  The people that are buying today, like the idea is that when the herd does come, they don't have to leave and they don't have to, they don't have to, they can stay inside of their close, comfy, cozy zone of protection, which is Fidelity, with the buy button for Ether, you know?

• 1:06:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  When MedMask integration Fidelity, what are you doing that? Why can I sign in with Ethereum? All right, what do we got? Releases. Uniswap on the BNB chain. That happened.

• 1:06:29David Hoffman?

  And that's the story.

• 1:06:31Ryan Sean Adams?

  All right, we also have a raise this week. Wanted to mention Sol Wallet, backed with $3 million, aims to bring self-hosted crypto wallets to the next billion. Big fan of smart contract wallets. I think we are going to see a wallet renaissance. Do we want to call a wallet summer? Because if we do, it's going to be two years later that it actually happens.

• 1:06:51David Hoffman?

  But it does happen.

• 1:06:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  It will happen.

• 1:06:53David Hoffman?

  It will happen.

• 1:06:54Ryan Sean Adams?

  There will be a wallet summer. Maybe Sol will be included in that, but we're starting to see a lot of smart contract wallet and wallet funding in general. It's really exciting to see great teams doing this. And this is from a previous Bankless guest, right?

• 1:07:06David Hoffman?

  Yeah, so whoever listened to the Layer Zero with JJ, Xi Zhongzeng, who dissented out of China because he worked for Baidu, which is TikTok's parent company, and he refused.

• 1:07:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  Isn't it Tencent, not Baidu? Am I wrong about that?

• 1:07:21David Hoffman?

  I thought it was Baidu.

• 1:07:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  Okay, I don't know.

• 1:07:23David Hoffman?

  I mean, did you listen to the episode, Ryan?

• 1:07:25Ryan Sean Adams?

  I did. I don't remember though, but.

• 1:07:27David Hoffman?

  I think it was Baidu.

• 1:07:28Ryan Sean Adams?

  Commenter, correct us.

• 1:07:29David Hoffman?

  Yeah, but he refused to build out an algorithm that could identify Uyghurs for Baidu, basically, because the Chinese government wanted to suppress them. And he was like, I don't agree with that. Now he lives in San Francisco.

• 1:07:44Ryan Sean Adams?

  Badass.

• 1:07:45David Hoffman?

  And is building a smart contract wallet. And Ryan and I are investors in Solwa as well because we believe in it.

• 1:07:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  Fantastic. Jobs this week, guys. Check them out on the Bankless Job Sport. I'll read a few. A marketing manager at Rise, a sales development representative for Web 3 and crypto at Rise as well. Uniswap hiring like crazy. Senior product designer. They need an application security engineer and a senior mobile engineer that is React native. All the jobs are always available for you at bankless.pallet.com. Go check them out. David, we got questions coming up. We got takes coming up. What else?

• 1:08:19David Hoffman?

  And what else after that? Of course, what you and I are bullish on, it might perhaps have to do with layer twos. I don't know. And of course, the meme of the week. So all of this and more as soon as we get back from some of these fantastic sponsors that make the show possible. Arbitrum One is pioneering the world of secure Ethereum scalability and is continuing to accelerate the Web 3 landscape. Hundreds of projects have already deployed on Arbitrum One, producing flourishing DeFi and NFT ecosystems. With a recent addition of Arbitrum Nova, gaming and social dApps like Reddit are also now calling Arbitrum home. Both Arbitrum One and Nova leverage the security and decentralization of Ethereum and provide a builder experience that's intuitive, familiar, and fully EVM compatible. On Arbitrum, both builders and users will experience faster transaction speeds

• 1:09:04David Hoffman?

  with significantly lower gas fees. With Arbitrum's recent migration to Arbitrum Nitro, it's also now 10 times faster than before. Visit arbitrum.io where you can join the community, dive into the developer docs, bridge your assets, and start building your first app. With Arbitrum, experience Web 3 development the way it was meant to be. Secure, fast, cheap, and friction free. Hey, Bankless Nation. If you're listening to this, it's because you're on the free Bankless RSS feed. Did you know that there is an ad-free version of Bankless that comes with the Bankless Premium subscription? No ads, just straight to the content. But that's just one of many things that a premium subscription gets you. There's also the Token Report, a monthly bullish, bearish, neutral report on the hottest tokens of the month.

• 1:09:44David Hoffman?

  And the regular updates from the Token Report go into the Token Bible, your first stop shop for every token worth investigating in crypto. Bankless Premium also gets you a 30% discount to the Permissionless Conference, which means it basically just pays for it. There's also the airdrop guide to make sure you don't miss a drop in 2023. But really, the best part about Bankless Premium is hanging out with me, Ryan, and the rest of the Bankless team in the Inner Circle Discord only for Premium members. Want the alpha? Check out Ben the Analyst's DGEN pit, where you can ask him questions about the token report. Got a question? I've got my own Q and A room for any questions that you might have. At Bankless, we have huge things planned for 2023, including a new website with login with your Ethereum address capabilities, and we're super excited to ship what we are

• 1:10:28David Hoffman?

  calling Bankless 2.0 soon TM. So if you want extra help exploring the frontier, subscribe to Bankless Premium. It's under 50 cents a day and provides a wealth of knowledge and support on your journey west. I'll see you in the Discord.

• 1:10:41Ryan Sean Adams?

  Back with the questions of the week from the Bankless Nation. You can ask those in the Bankless Discord if you're a citizen. As USDC starts looking more and more like a state-backed currency, totally agree there. Do you trust it more or less? I feel like I trust the Fed to prop it up like any other bank, but does that go with the vision of decentralization? Zerex Caesar Severus asked this question.

• 1:11:06David Hoffman?

  So I think this starts off a very big conversation.

• 1:11:11David Hoffman?

  And one part is, do we trust USDC? The second part is, how much do we want our DeFi ecosystem to depend on the USDC? So USDC looking more and more like a state-backed currency, 100%. Do I trust it more or less? I trust it to be $1 and to always be able for me to have a claim on $1 of value more and more and more. It is becoming closer to being the CBDC that will never actually come about from the central bank. It is doing like this backdoor strategy.

• 1:11:44Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's a proto-CDBC.

• 1:11:45David Hoffman?

  It's a proto-CDBC, and it's very bullish for it being strong guarantees about always having $1, no matter what happens, even if like cryptography gets broken, for example.

• 1:11:56Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's close to the base layer of the money printer, basically. It's always going to be redeemable, it seems like.

• 1:12:02David Hoffman?

  And it is doing its job of being $1, no matter what the backend. Looks like so I trust that more and more and more every single day and I think the market is going to understand that too like people who sold USDC at 88 cents. They're going to remember that if USDC ever like loses its peg again like it's USDC starting to become anti fragile.

• 1:12:22Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's coming up stronger out of this.

• 1:12:24David Hoffman?

  Right, so I trust it more and more and more. Does that go with the vision of decentralization? Well, we watched die de-peg because it was dependent on USDC. A lot of DeFi apps don't actually ingest oracles for USDC price. They make an implicit assumption that one USDC is $1, which is making DeFi and all the apps that do that, enshrine USDC as $1 in the same way that USDC is trying to become enshrined in the Fed as the proto CBDC.

• 1:13:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  Makes DeFi a bit more fragile.

• 1:13:02David Hoffman?

  It makes DeFi more dependent on the Federal Reserve and more dependent on USDC. Is that good? Well, it depends on how radical you are, I think. And so I'm of the opinion that our current financial system and our new financial system will integrate and hopefully be friendly with each other. Other people are more radical than myself and they say like not, not $1 like stop like rye not die even to this point. Like some people don't like how USDC is inside of Maker Dow. Everyone finds themselves on a particular place in the spectrum. I think it's definitely something to be wary about, but I do think that accepting USDC and allowing for it to grow

• 1:13:44David Hoffman?

  does offer very big adoption tailwinds from people who we would otherwise not be able to convince about crypto. What do you, what's your take on this, Ryan?

• 1:13:52Ryan Sean Adams?

  My take on it is USDC is generally good for crypto because the more USDC that is settled on crypto networks like Ethereum, the more gas fees they pay and the more our decentralized native currency, currency like Ethereum, Ether, the asset can thrive and grow. Every time somebody transacts with USDC on Ethereum.

• 1:14:15Ryan Sean Adams?

  They pay tax to ETH holders,

• 1:14:16David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 1:14:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  which increases the value of Ether.

• 1:14:18David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 1:14:18Ryan Sean Adams?

  So like backdoor, we win. We don't get that sort of treatment in the US banking system. So it's totally a net win for crypto. Now, does that mean we should become dependent on it? Absolutely not. But you got to look at the long game here. The long game is we are only going to have two types of digital currencies. Type one is central bank digital currencies, of which USDC is a proto version of that. It's like that. Type two is crypto internet native, real non, yeah, non-central bank backed assets. The best assets that fit that profile right now are Ether and Bitcoin. Those are the only two assets kind of in the running for that sort of treatment. And then you can create more stable derivatives on top of them.

• 1:15:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  And so that's the bifurcation. As long as we preserve both and as long as our decentralized native currencies get stronger and stronger over time, we are winning relative to the position we are in. So I would much rather see the Fed adopt something like USDC that pays transaction fees to Ethereum than to go the Chinese central bank route of creating their own blockchain network and their own super central bank digital currency and not deploying on a decentralized network entirely. That's so it's good. It's not perfect, but it's better than them not doing it. So it's a net win for crypto.

• 1:15:46David Hoffman?

  Right. I think USDC is more of a Trojan horse for crypto into TradFi than TradFi, than it is for like the Fed into crypto. I think Jeremy LaRue is a crypto person more than he is a banker. Although he is a banker, he is more of a crypto person.

• 1:16:05Ryan Sean Adams?

  He's a crypto banker.

• 1:16:06David Hoffman?

  He's on our side. He's on our side.

• 1:16:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  Well, look, if you have USDC, how much? So by the way, USDC is a basically, I count USDC as just as secure as a dollar in my Wells Fargo account. It's kind of one in the same, except this dollar-

• 1:16:19David Hoffman?

  It almost was more secure than dollars inside of Silicon Valley Bank and Signature Bank.

• 1:16:24Ryan Sean Adams?

  So this dollar is, now it's tokenized. And guess what? I have easy access to trade this dollar anytime on a decentralized exchange called Uniswap.

• 1:16:33David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 1:16:34Ryan Sean Adams?

  In fact, that's why we saw Uniswap volume up. So it's another- On-ramp to crypto.

• 1:16:38David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 1:16:39Ryan Sean Adams?

  You know, I can't do that with my Wells Fargo dollar. I can't go on Uniswap and do my savings account dollar. Trade that with ETH. I can with USDC. We could go on about this, but I think you guys get the point. This is why we are still excited about stablecoin adoption, even if it's not fully decentralized. It's still in the win category.

• 1:16:56David Hoffman?

  You know, you know, when the FBI went to Apple and was like, hey, let us through the backdoor of this person's phone. And Apple was like, no, F off.

• 1:17:04Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:04David Hoffman?

  I hope that that's what USDC does for its holders. As in like, somebody comes in and say, hey, blacklist this address. And USDC is like, give me a court order to do that. Right?

• 1:17:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  But even if they don't, well, the reason, let's talk about the reason Apple does that. Because if they don't, people abandon the, it's bad for shareholders. People abandon iPhone. If USDC does start blacklisting, guess what? We abandon, we abandon it in a heartbeat. Right? Trade my USDC for some ETH. It's easy on Uniswap. See you later. Or another stablecoin that doesn't do that. See, now the bankers are playing in our world and our game.

• 1:17:39David Hoffman?

  Market forces.

• 1:17:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah. If they adopt crypto protocols, they adopt crypto values. That is the backdoor here. That's what David and I believe anyway. We've got another question here. This one is from Sneakup.

• 1:17:50David Hoffman?

  Yeah. Can you clearly differentiate ZK and optimistic rollups and the different narratives they hold? Oh, that clearly Prefect is doing a lot of work here.

• 1:18:00Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:01David Hoffman?

  So optimistic rollups, think of them as a fractal off of Ethereum. They are Ethereum, but as a layer two. They do everything that Ethereum does and they settle down to Ethereum. Ethereum as a layer two. A ZK rollup is Ethereum with zero knowledge cryptography as a layer two. Man, getting to the nuances of this is actually pretty hard. Think of Ethereum with.

• 1:18:29David Hoffman?

  10x better cryptography and compression and faster and cheaper fees that allow you to have so much computational resource that the limitations for putting almost anything on-chain are basically gone. And so, for example, you will see Web3 games on an optimistic rollup like Arbitrum or Optimism. And what that means is that there are games that have assets inside of them. On ZK rollups, you will have fully on-chain games where the game engines and game logic themselves are actually smart contracts. That is perhaps one way to illustrate this. That's all I got, Ryan.

• 1:19:08Ryan Sean Adams?

  That makes sense. I think what if you want to, if you are a bankless listener and you want to go down the crypto rabbit hole a little bit, and when I say crypto, I mean cryptography.

• 1:19:18David Hoffman?

  Right.

• 1:19:19Ryan Sean Adams?

  Go check out an episode we did, probably, I don't know, a year, year and a half ago, maybe longer, David, with Justin Drake. It's called Moon Math.

• 1:19:27David Hoffman?

  Okay.

• 1:19:28Ryan Sean Adams?

  And that, I think, is the philosophy around this. What David was saying is there are two types of ways to sort of scale things in crypto. One is economic games that we can play, like fraud proofs. This is what optimistic technology does. And the other is pure math, pure moon math, pure cryptography. And that is what ZK rollups do. Anyway, if you want some more context for that, that you'll find it there. But ZK technology is kind of the moon math equivalent way where we get all of the crypto economic guarantees, but through cryptography rather than have, having to pay for it.

• 1:20:05David Hoffman?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:20:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  David, we got some takes of the week. Let's read this first one. What's this?

• 1:20:11David Hoffman?

  Jim, I'm gonna skip the first part of this tweet. Jim tweets out, "Banks are sovereign rollups that post data availability to the Fed." I think it's a great take. I think it's a great take. Okay, sovereign rollups, as in they control their own ledger. A bank is a sovereign rollup. It has control over its own ledger and that it posts data availability to the Fed. So it takes the state of that ledger and tells the Fed about it. That is a sovereign rollup with data availability posting to the Fed.

• 1:20:41Ryan Sean Adams?

  And it's actually works out quite literally. We were talking earlier about FedNow technology, which is basically a big settlement chain. That is the chain through which these bank sovereign rollup ledgers actually post to. They post back to FedNow. It's, yeah, accurate. David, this is a tweet from you. The crypto class of 21 and 22 have really earned their stripes. God, I'll say, we have, haven't we?

• 1:21:05David Hoffman?

  Yeah. Three hours capital liquidation, Voyager, Celsius, FTX, a bank crisis of our banks, the banks that we actually care about, now Euler. Man, like, in the first half of 2022, I was like, man, these, these kids got it easy. And then the second half of 2022 came and like, oh, man, these guys got it rough. And so I follow up this with this tweet saying, in 2025, when you're all millionaires, they will say that you got lucky. Remember how, what it took to get to there, you know?

• 1:21:40Ryan Sean Adams?

  Nice tweet. Not financial advice.

• 1:21:41David Hoffman?

  Not financial advice. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know how that's financial advice, but it probably is somehow. Ryan Shad Adams tweets out, a whole bunch, God, we just, we just have podcasts, we just read our own tweets. We should do more of these. A whole bunch of tech entrepreneurs and builders just learned why we need crypto. I wonder what they're gonna do next. What do you mean by this, Ryan?

• 1:21:59Ryan Sean Adams?

  I do think that's part of the, the narrative shift that we're seeing here is like, you have the startup bank of the United States, of Silicon Valley, basically. And all of the founders of all of these startups just got temporarily unbanked and then permanently unbanked. Didn't know whether they were going to get rug pulled or not. From all of their, like, what, they have to stop and think, these are builders, these are engineers, these are people who want to create a, a different world and have the skills and talent to actually do that. I think some of them, some portion of that population probably got crypto pilled last weekend.

• 1:22:35David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:36Ryan Sean Adams?

  And maybe some portion of them will understand why we're here, why crypto exists in the first place, and will use some of those skills to help us build out this crypto future. That's what I mean. It's, this is when you learn, right? When PayPal locks you up. Remember Paul Krugman last week? He was like, he didn't say, now I understand crypto. He got locked out of PayPal, though. Now he knows what the use case is. He's probably going to consider that the next time he assesses what we're, what we're trying to do here with uncensorable financial transactions and the value of that.

• 1:23:07David Hoffman?

  Bullish.

• 1:23:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  There we go. Speaking of bullish, David, what are you bullish on, man?

• 1:23:12David Hoffman?

  I am bullish, Ryan, on layer twos.

• 1:23:16David Hoffman?

  But here's what I mean by that. Arbitrum finally releases token, like the most anticipated airdrop of all time. In one hour from right now, I don't know why I'm saying this, one hour from right now, Ryan, you and I are live streaming with the Arbitrum team. So all the listeners, that is already live and available for you to go consume. OP stack already has two major chains. Coinbase is building on the OP stack. We have two ZK EVMs launching in the next 10 days. We haven't even talked about that.

• 1:23:44Ryan Sean Adams?

  Do people know about that? Do they remember that? Two in 10 days?

• 1:23:48David Hoffman?

  Yes. Yeah. Mainnet, ZK EVM mainnets. We haven't even talked about, everyone's focused on the Arbitrum airdrop. People are forgetting about the ZK EVM are getting launched. And those are going to have tokens too, by the way. Well, one of them is polygone, so that token already exists. There's also some alpha, an embargoed thing that I'm, I'm recording tomorrow.

• 1:24:09Ryan Sean Adams?

  Don't say it.

• 1:24:09David Hoffman?

  That will be released on Monday about layer twos. So that's happening. Like, man, all of the innovation is happening in layer twos. Like, we said layer two summer was going to happen in, when did we say that? 2022?

• 1:24:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  2021, I think we called the first layer two summer.

• 1:24:24David Hoffman?

  And then 2022?

• 1:24:26Ryan Sean Adams?

  We called the second one.

• 1:24:27David Hoffman?

  Here we are.

• 1:24:28Ryan Sean Adams?

  But we're calling it for 2023. It's going to be layer two.

• 1:24:30David Hoffman?

  It is currently happening. We are in, this is what layer two summer looks like.

• 1:24:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:35David Hoffman?

  Perhaps two years late. Sorry. But here we are.

• 1:24:42David Hoffman?

  It's like, yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm bullish on layer twos.

• 1:24:44Ryan Sean Adams?

  Yeah, it's super bullish. I think it's played out how we hoped it might. And down to, do you remember that episode we did about the modular blockchain thesis?

• 1:24:53David Hoffman?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:54Ryan Sean Adams?

  That's this playing out. That was a while ago, but it's playing out that way.

• 1:24:58David Hoffman?

  Cool. What are you bullish on, man?

• 1:24:59Ryan Sean Adams?

  David, I am bullish on regulators that do their jobs.

• 1:25:04David Hoffman?

  Oh, how many of their...

• 1:25:06Ryan Sean Adams?

  Let me introduce you to Hester Purce. All right, she is an SEC commissioner and the antithesis of Gary Gensler. You know, it occurred to me when Bankless put out this tweet, I was like, we spend a lot of time on Gary Gensler in our rollups and our content and just his crypto. We really do spend too much time on him. I want to take a minute to just thank regulators who are actually doing their job. Hester Purce is one of them. She is a certified American badass. She is principled, she is smart, she's willing to engage the crypto community, and we are lucky to have her. I'm thankful for this person. That was, I think, re-echoed to me as we had this interview. We had a conversation with her earlier in this week.

• 1:25:51Ryan Sean Adams?

  That episode is going to come out on Monday.

• 1:25:54David Hoffman?

  It's already out for citizens.

• 1:25:55Ryan Sean Adams?

  She just calls it like it is. She's very honest. We asked her questions like, what is a security? She's like, you know, I don't know. And I don't think the SEC has done a good job actually communicating with any clarity on this.

• 1:26:10David Hoffman?

  She said, sorry, I know this is what you're excited about.

• 1:26:13Ryan Sean Adams?

  No, say it.

• 1:26:14David Hoffman?

  She said that the SEC is primarily interested in increasing its jurisdictional reach. She just said it how it was.

• 1:26:23Ryan Sean Adams?

  Flat out said it. She said focused on that rather than what they should be focused on, which is principles. And I just, I just want to be thankful for regulators that are actually doing their job. And this is a broader thing that I think is important for us to realize. In the United States, and I think across the world, there is a growing frustrated majority that just wants everyone else to behave like grownups, right? Stop playing the power games and like, let's actually build something for the future. Let's actually build something we care about. Hester, in that conversation, described a scenario which it just seems so simple, but in some way, it was also a utopia of just like the crypto community and regulators

• 1:27:07Ryan Sean Adams?

  coming together and having a conversation about a new... Imagine that, about a new asset class.

• 1:27:16Ryan Sean Adams?

  And how this should be governed and regulated moving to the features and what what parts were really decentralized, what parts were centralized, where the scammers and bad actors were, and how regulators could go side by side in the crypto industry and move this technology of freedom forward. Wow, that can actually happen. And I think there is a majority of people who are sick of our institutions failing us, sick of the power games, want to get back to like building a productive society. And so I'm just happy and bullish that people like this exist. And I, you know, I'm thankful for our good regulators. They don't get enough credit, and I think they should.

• 1:27:52David Hoffman?

  Yeah, 100%. As much as people like Eric Gensler make us lose our faith in humanity, people like Hester Purce build it right back.

• 1:28:01Ryan Sean Adams?

  There you go. Meme of the week, David, what are we looking at?

• 1:28:04David Hoffman?

  Meme of the week, this is from CMS Holdings, Do Kwon makes basis cash. And 17 dominos later, the US banking sector needs a bailout. Thanks, Do.

• 1:28:15Ryan Sean Adams?

  That was his original staple coin, by the way, fun fact, if you didn't realize that.

• 1:28:18David Hoffman?

  Yeah, that was the one domino before Terra Luna.

• 1:28:21Ryan Sean Adams?

  Absolutely. Guys, we got to end it here. None of this has been a financial advice. It never is. Got to reemphasize that crypto is risky. So is DeFi. You could lose what you put in. Banking system is kind of risky, though, too. But we are headed west.

• 1:28:35David Hoffman?

  Everything is risky.

• 1:28:35Ryan Sean Adams?

  It's all risky. This is the journey that we're on. It's the bankless journey, and we're glad you're with us today. Thanks so much.