SOUNDTRACK: 'Working Girl' With Amanda Dobbins

Amanda Dobbins joins Yasi to take on the Oscar-, Grammy-, and Golden Globe-winning soundtrack to 'Working Girl.' They trace Carly Simon’s path to penning “Let the River Run,” how the Eagles nearly provided the movie’s defining song instead, and the iconic sneakers-to-heels commuter transition. Plus: Who almost played the lead, how much did that apartment really cost, and gifts from Kansas. CREDITS:Host: Yasi Salek @yasisalekGuest: Amanda Dobbins @akdobbinsProducer: Rob SundermannEditor: Adrian BridgesAdditional Production Supervision: Justin SaylesTheme Song: Bethany Cosentino Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 1:01Speaker 02

  What's with this band anyway? I don't get it. Can you please explain? Wait, like, Bandplain? Never heard this band in my life. Oh, you haven't? I'd love that. Really? Why? Yeah, I love this song. Oh, I don't know that one. Bandplain, Bandplain, Bandplain. I really hate this band! Whatever, I'm their biggest fan. Bandplain, Bandplain, Bandplain, Bandplain. Bandplain!

• 1:41Yasi Salek?

  Hello and welcome to Bandplain. I am your host, Yasi Salek. This is usually a show where I invite an expert guest on to help me explain a cult band or iconic artist, but today, we are in the midst of our ongoing 80's soundtracks series. And today's episode is about a little film and soundtrack called Working Girl. You guys, my guest today, she has a head for business and a body for sin. It's Amanda Dobbins.

• 2:07Speaker 04

  I didn't know how you were gonna, you know, segue from, I usually invite an expert, but today I have this idiot. But I accept it.

• 2:14Yasi Salek?

  No, today I have head for business and a body for sin.

• 2:16Speaker 04

  That's true. I told myself when we met, we'd drink tequila. We should have tequila shots right now.

• 2:20Yasi Salek?

  Would honestly, 11:30 AM, tequila shots? Not a bad idea. Amanda Dobbins, thank you so much for joining me. It's such a thrill and an honor. Obviously, we have leaned in.

• 2:31Speaker 04

  Yes, thanks for having me. Thanks for buying these glasses. So these are, these are blue light cancelling?

• 2:36Yasi Salek?

  Blue light blocking, so.

• 2:37Speaker 04

  Blue light blocking, okay. So I-

• 2:39Yasi Salek?

  I don't think you can notice it.

• 2:40Speaker 04

  You can a little bit, yeah. It's, it's a little bit-

• 2:44Yasi Salek?

  I guess so.

• 2:45Speaker 04

  It's a little bit blurry. This is my first blue light experience.

• 2:48Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 2:48Speaker 04

  Because, well, yes, that's true, because I wear glasses for normal reasons or contacts, so I didn't really need to get into it. I did learn the last time I went to the optometrist that the blue light blockers can affect your sense of color slightly, which I see. So she, she asked me, she was like, "Do you work in the visual arts?" And I was like, "Well, I watch movies."

• 3:09Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 3:10Speaker 04

  It's like, "Does that count?"

• 3:11Yasi Salek?

  Sort of.

• 3:11Speaker 04

  And so then we didn't do blue light blockers on my glasses prescription. But these are nice.

• 3:16Yasi Salek?

  I do wear blue light blocking glasses in the evening.

• 3:19Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 3:19Yasi Salek?

  When I play Zelda Breath of the Wild on my Switch.

• 3:22Speaker 04

  Okay, well, I think, you know, that life is about balance, right? And so you're balancing one out with the other.

• 3:28Yasi Salek?

  I'm trying to not, you know-

• 3:30Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 3:30Yasi Salek?

  exacerbate my nervous system while I'm fighting monsters and making little foods.

• 3:34Speaker 04

  I do that by not playing video games or, but I still look on, look at the RealReal on my phone before bedtime. I know I'm not supposed to. Most nights, I don't. But some nights, I'm like, "Oh, I forgot I wanted to search this."

• 3:48Yasi Salek?

  I've been bricking my phone, so I look at the RealReal like 87 times a day because it's now the only available. I'm like, you find yourself, you're like, "Well, better check what's happened on Letterboxd again." Like, let's open up Redfin, because you're just like, "I need to look at my phone." But I have been on the RealReal like an egregious amount.

• 4:05Speaker 04

  A good tip if you want to deflect from that is looking at Airbnb for future locations. Like Airbnb as a social media scrolling situation, making lists, you know? Like lots of places in New Mexico and also regions of Greece I've never heard of.

• 4:22Yasi Salek?

  Sure, totally. Corfu, a bit of Mallorca.

• 4:24Speaker 04

  I've heard of Corfu. No, no, this is like-

• 4:26Yasi Salek?

  I was thinking about that.

• 4:27Speaker 04

  And I've heard of the Paloponnesus, but this is like left of the Paloponnesus. I'm like, sure, okay.

• 4:31Yasi Salek?

  There's always a better, better chef probably to be found there. Odysseus didn't go there. I'm really honored to have you here.

• 4:38Speaker 04

  Thank you so much. So far, we're on topic.

• 4:41Yasi Salek?

  This show is never on topic and that is a feature and not a bug.

• 4:47Yasi Salek?

  Should we talk a little bit about what Working Girl is about? Well, first, should we talk about why you chose this soundtrack?

• 4:53Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 4:53Yasi Salek?

  Because I opened it up. I said, "What's in your heart?"

• 4:56Speaker 04

  Right, that is not Dirty Dancing or Joanna had claimed it. And there was one other-

• 5:02Yasi Salek?

  A Purple Rain.

• 5:03Speaker 04

  Sure, yeah.

• 5:03Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, and Top Gun presumably, potentially, William Simmons will be doing.

• 5:10Speaker 04

  Wow, oh, so he claimed that for me. I mean, listen, that's, them's the breaks, okay?

• 5:15Yasi Salek?

  But also, we'll, we'll see, you know, when that transpires.

• 5:18Speaker 04

  So I threw out, Working Girl was my first instinct, I think, because, well, it was the 80's parameter.

• 5:25Yasi Salek?

  Yes.

• 5:26Speaker 04

  And then it has, obviously, the anthem, Let the River Run, that is then used as the primary inspiration for the score.

• 5:36Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 5:36Speaker 04

  So when you said soundtrack, I'm technically thought of soundtrack because I thought of Let the River Run, which opens the movie, which is like a performed, like a pop song. It won the Oscar, it won the Golden Globe, it won all, it is-

• 5:47Yasi Salek?

  Grammy.

• 5:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, it, it counts for soundtrack. But it, it's soundtrack into score. And so I was thinking about all the movies where the, like, the theme, all the scenes where the theme is used, like, in different ways throughout the movie. Like when they're cleaning the, or they're not even cleaning the chandelier, they're just, you know, raising the chandelier in an automated way. And it's like the organ version of Let the River-

• 6:13Yasi Salek?

  Joaquin is like, "What is happening here?" And she's just like, "They're raising the chandelier."

• 6:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's for cleaning, yeah. I guess, I, I guess you said soundtrack and I thought, in my mind, like, what came to my mind was soundtrack used a score.

• 6:25Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 6:26Speaker 04

  Which, I don't know if that counts, but it does count because we're doing it.

• 6:29Yasi Salek?

  It's a bit of a free for all here.

• 6:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 6:30Yasi Salek?

  And I think, you know, why wouldn't it count? Although I have shied away from doing purely score things because there's nothing to talk about. So this is a nice, happy medium.

• 6:41Speaker 04

  Right.

• 6:41Yasi Salek?

  And we are gonna find things to talk about, even though ostensibly there are three songs on this soundtrack.

• 6:45Speaker 04

  With three absolute bangers.

• 6:47Yasi Salek?

  Absolute bangers, and it's true. And there's, there's plenty to talk about. So we're gonna make it, we're gonna make it a media episode.

• 6:54Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 6:54Yasi Salek?

  And we're gonna talk about Working Girl.

• 6:57Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 6:58Yasi Salek?

  Would you like to give the people a bit of a breakdown of what this film is about?

• 7:03Speaker 04

  Yes. Well, if you haven't seen the 1988 film Working Girl, I guess stop listening and go watch it. And what a treat is waiting for you. This is a Cinderella story set in the world of 80's Wall Street finance yuppies. And Melanie Griffith plays a young woman secretary and an aspiring titan of industry from Staten Island.

• 7:27Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 7:27Speaker 04

  Who takes the ferry over every day to Manhattan, to the strains of Carly Simon's Let the River Run. With her, wearing her sneakers, with her high heels and her bag.

• 7:39Yasi Salek?

  The most, probably the most enduring and iconic imagery of this film is the sneakers to the back.

• 7:46Speaker 04

  Right.

• 7:46Yasi Salek?

  Didn't they make a commercial for like Easy Spirit or something? I may be fully making this up. It just occurred to me that, that like-

• 7:54Speaker 04

  I hope so. I mean, I, you know, in 88 and Mike Nichols.

• 7:58Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 7:58Speaker 04

  I don't know how intense the tie-ins were. They would do that now. And should they ever attempt to remake this film, which they should not, just remake Cinderella, you know?

• 8:09Yasi Salek?

  Working Girl, slap times Lena and Sheryl Sandberg.

• 8:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, so, I mean, so it stars Melanie Griffith and then her nemesis boss is played by Sigourney Weaver. Her best friend is played by Joan Cusack.

• 8:23Yasi Salek?

  Amazing.

• 8:23Speaker 04

  Her love interest is played by Harrison Ford. The hottest that Harrison Ford has ever been on film, according to me personally.

• 8:30Yasi Salek?

  And you are an expert in the field.

• 8:31Speaker 04

  I am. You know, many people will make the case for Witness when he's doing the Sam Cooke.

• 8:37Yasi Salek?

  That's good.

• 8:38Speaker 04

  And I get it. I get it.

• 8:40Yasi Salek?

  But he's really hot in this movie.

• 8:41Speaker 04

  He's really, really hot. And he also does the thing that not many male movie stars of his ilk do that I really appreciate, which is, he is just there to be the charming love interest.

• 8:52Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, I mean, you could make the argument that he's the girl.

• 8:55Speaker 04

  Yes, he is the girl. He is the girl.

• 8:56Yasi Salek?

  Not to be binary of gender, but you know what we're talking about.

• 8:59Speaker 04

  You know, and this is a movie about women and three women were nominated for Academy Awards for this movie, which is pretty rare, because most movies don't even feature that many women speaking, let alone in roles that could land them Oscars or Oscar nominations, as the case may be. But, so, directed by Mike Nichols, who is one of my favorite directors.

• 9:19Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 9:20Speaker 04

  I brought Mark Harris's biography here.

• 9:23Yasi Salek?

  You might have heard of a little film called The Graduate?

• 9:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, The Graduate, who's afraid of Virginia Woolf. Heartburn.

• 9:29Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 9:30Speaker 04

  Uh, Working Girl, The Birdcage, the list goes on. Yeah.

• 9:34Yasi Salek?

  Supremacy, honestly. What a fucking banger. Written by Elaine May?

• 9:39Speaker 04

  Well, he had a comedy, he had a comedy partnership with Elaine May for many years. Did she also write the Birdcage movie adaptation? Let's find out right now. Yes. Good job.

• 9:50Yasi Salek?

  I retained that for some reason, which I thought was very cool. Yes, they had their-

• 9:55Speaker 04

  I mean, she's the coolest.

• 9:56Yasi Salek?

  Nichols and May. Well, we're gonna get into that. I just want to point out, there's one incredibly important performance that you forgot.

• 10:03Speaker 04

  Go ahead.

• 10:04Yasi Salek?

  And it is, of course, Alec Baldwin.

• 10:05Speaker 04

  Yes, I did.

• 10:06Yasi Salek?

  As her shitheel, uh, ex-boyfriend.

• 10:10Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:11Yasi Salek?

  Who honestly is phenomenal in this film. He's very early Alec Baldwin. He was kind of a borderline unknown, right? Like, really hot.

• 10:20Speaker 04

  I think it's, you know, it's on his up.

• 10:22Yasi Salek?

  He's, he's on his up.

• 10:23Speaker 04

  And he's, he's there to play the Staten Island boyfriend who appreciates her in one way, but doesn't appreciate the full breadth of her ambition.

• 10:32Yasi Salek?

  Yes, he doesn't respect her mind. Um, Alec Baldwin's one of those actors where there's such a distinction between young him and older him that you're almost like, I can't believe you ever looked like that.

• 10:42Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:42Yasi Salek?

  Not in a like, you look better. I mean, he's always been a handsome man. But it's like Harrison Ford, you see, and it's kind of always the same Harrison Ford, just sort of like.

• 10:51Speaker 04

  That's true.

• 10:51Yasi Salek?

  Following a little progression.

• 10:53Speaker 04

  Different haircut.

• 10:54Yasi Salek?

  Alec Baldwin just looks borderline a different person.

• 10:57Speaker 04

  I mean, that is true. We've also, at this point, which just, it's age, right? It's 50 years and people age in different ways.

• 11:03Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 11:03Speaker 04

  And Harrison Ford is aging to the Red Hulk.

• 11:05Yasi Salek?

  Um, this is so unrelated, but you know who looks so fucking good?

• 11:09Speaker 04

  Tell me.

• 11:10Yasi Salek?

  Richard Gere.

• 11:11Speaker 04

  He really does.

• 11:12Yasi Salek?

  Do you want to see?

• 11:12Speaker 04

  Uh, I haven't seen the second season yet. I'm saving it for vacation. But, you know, I see the photos. He's filming the adaptation of that movie where he plays Philip Roth.

• 11:22Yasi Salek?

  Oh.

• 11:23Speaker 04

  Asymmetry.

• 11:23Yasi Salek?

  Asymmetry.

• 11:24Speaker 04

  Sorry, asymmetry. So it is a Lisa Halliday book and he is, and it's about, it's loosely based, or maybe not that loosely. I don't know. I wasn't there.

• 11:33Yasi Salek?

  Life story?

• 11:34Speaker 04

  No, it's about a young woman who has an affair, a romantic affair with a much older author, who is supposed to be Philip Roth. And, and I, I think that did happen. And so now they're making a movie of it and he is playing the Philip Roth character.

• 11:52Yasi Salek?

  Hold up. He's, I looked it up. He's my father's age. He's 76.

• 11:56Speaker 04

  He's doing really well. I mean, but he was, he's always been like very, you know, like model Armani, obviously, um, with the, the not American Psycho, American Gigolo of it all. And then.

• 12:10Yasi Salek?

  Speaking of great soundtrack.

• 12:11Speaker 04

  But also like, his beauty is very marble, you know?

• 12:16Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 12:16Speaker 04

  He does look like a sculpture.

• 12:18Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 12:18Speaker 04

  And I applaud whatever treatments he's had to keep.

• 12:22Yasi Salek?

  Whatever he's doing, it looks very natural. And I think he, his doctor, my hat is off to him.

• 12:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 12:27Yasi Salek?

  Or her. You can be a doctor if you're a woman. And that's in many ways.

• 12:31Speaker 04

  And that's one of them.

• 12:32Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 12:34Speaker 04

  And also Van Slade.

• 12:35Yasi Salek?

  And also Van Slade, exactly. You too can be a dumb bitch podcaster as a woman. Um, let's set the scene briefly for 1988. So Amanda, as you, as you know.

• 12:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 12:46Yasi Salek?

  As a card carrying feminist.

• 12:48Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 12:48Yasi Salek?

  Prior to 1974, single women in the United States often had real trouble obtaining bank accounts and mortgages.

• 12:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 12:56Yasi Salek?

  Not that it was, it was never, I thought, I was, had to correct myself because I thought it was like, you couldn't have one. It was the law. But actually, it was at the discretion of the banks and many people did have them, but the banks would often be like, hmm, we're not giving you a mortgage.

• 13:12Speaker 04

  Yes, exactly. And the banks, the bank's ability to do that is one of the major reasons that they wanted the Equal Rights Amendment, as I understand it, which we didn't get.

• 13:21Yasi Salek?

  We didn't get. But we did get the 1974 Equal Credit Opportunity Act.

• 13:24Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 13:25Yasi Salek?

  In which, but I will say my beloved California, 1862, passed a law that all women.

• 13:30Speaker 04

  So everyone could have credit cards.

• 13:32Yasi Salek?

  Right, and bank accounts. Anyways, all this to say, financial freedom and fluency for women in America.

• 13:40Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 13:40Yasi Salek?

  Was pretty fresh in the eighties, right? Like, we're not, well.

• 13:45Speaker 04

  Yes, for women, for sure.

• 13:48Yasi Salek?

  Entering the workforce in such numbers, I might be totally saying.

• 13:52Speaker 04

  No, I, and I think.

• 13:53Yasi Salek?

  A-historical things.

• 13:55Speaker 04

  I, I think that's true and also kind of coincides both with just a new generation of women who are entering the workforce and like dual income families. And this, like, the professional woman.

• 14:10Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 14:10Speaker 04

  Starts in earnest in the seventies or eighties, or in like broader numbers. I think seventies into the eighties.

• 14:19Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 14:20Speaker 04

  Culturally. And, you know, and coincides with like yuppie culture, which this is very much about as well. Um, so, yeah, I, I think that you're right. I think that I, this movie is maybe about financial freedom, but I think it's also just about the way that the test character, and that's Melli Griffith's character, she, she wants something more. You know, she has, she has a larger ambition and it is set in this Gordon Gekko, like Wall Street, you know, Wall Street, I believe it's 1987.

• 14:54Yasi Salek?

  So many movies in the eighties are set.

• 14:56Speaker 04

  Exactly. Because, you know, it's the end of the Reagan era and like the go-go eighties.

• 15:00Yasi Salek?

  Yeah. It was just interesting because I was like trying to like, be like, I was trying to, not because I can't help myself.

• 15:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:05Yasi Salek?

  I'm like, let's go back and map economics.

• 15:07Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 15:08Yasi Salek?

  Okay, in 88, women were, made 66 cents on the dollar to men.

• 15:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:12Yasi Salek?

  We're only up to like, I think, 88 now? Is that right? 88?

• 15:15Speaker 04

  Are we really?

• 15:16Yasi Salek?

  81.

• 15:17Speaker 04

  Oh, we broke 80?

• 15:18Yasi Salek?

  As of last year.

• 15:19Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 15:20Yasi Salek?

  Um, cool. What I did think was really interesting, though, is that the laborer force participation rate.

• 15:27Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 15:29Yasi Salek?

  Has not changed that much. In 88, it was 56.6% and in 2025, it was 57.3% of, of women who worked. So actually not that many, I, I just imagine that so many more women must work than did in the eighties, but it's not true. It's a real, barely 1% more. Isn't that interesting?

• 15:50Speaker 04

  Then it, so from now versus the eighties? Yeah, I guess that's true because everyone tried to have it all and we found that the dream of that is.

• 15:58Yasi Salek?

  Also, I think COVID put it like a bit of a wrench. There's also like, there's no jobs, people.

• 16:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 16:03Yasi Salek?

  Overeducated. Anyways, we don't have to get into it. But in 88, it's only three to five.

• 16:07Speaker 04

  Is that professional, is like?

• 16:08Yasi Salek?

  No, just jobs.

• 16:09Speaker 04

  Jobs.

• 16:10Yasi Salek?

  Labor force.

• 16:10Speaker 04

  Oh, interesting. Because every, everyone else is doing.

• 16:13Yasi Salek?

  I did look up, um.

• 16:14Speaker 04

  Caregiving, which is the hardest job, but doesn't count in this little situation.

• 16:18Yasi Salek?

  Unpaid, unpaid national labor.

• 16:20Speaker 04

  That's physical labor, man.

• 16:22Yasi Salek?

  I know, I just.

• 16:23Speaker 04

  And skilled labor.

• 16:24Yasi Salek?

  I just spent a week with my cousin Nikki. Hi Nikki, if you're listening or watching, and helped her care for her, um, gorgeous little two-year-old Leo. And I was like, yeah, you're braver than, um, every troop that's ever existed. And I could not do this.

• 16:38Speaker 04

  I mean, it's just, it's cleaning, it's, you know, cooking.

• 16:41Yasi Salek?

  She was like a human Roomba. I was like, all day, you're, you're like, amazing. She was, she was astounding. And then being like such a good mom, being so like patient and calm, um, obsessed with her son who is like two, so getting frustrated and going, being like, go away, Yasi, go away. And then me being like, you go away.

• 17:02Speaker 04

  Right, yeah.

• 17:03Yasi Salek?

  Sometimes it worked, actually, who would laugh?

• 17:04Speaker 04

  I, I also do do that sometimes. Yeah.

• 17:07Yasi Salek?

  Anyways, all that to say, this is a different time, 88. And it makes sense that this film, several films like this, about women aspiring for more.

• 17:18Speaker 04

  Baby boom is in this era, but different.

• 17:20Yasi Salek?

  And not just women, like people. Like, there's also, we watched The Secret of My Success.

• 17:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 17:25Yasi Salek?

  Which is also, it's like about, uh, you know, kind of corn-fed Kansas boy trying to break into the big, big bad world of business. I think that was kind of a, that was a, that was a thing back then.

• 17:35Speaker 04

  Broadcast news from this era.

• 17:37Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 17:37Speaker 04

  87 as well, which is, which is different, but is about a, a very career-driven woman who is trying to balance work and life.

• 17:48Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 17:48Speaker 04

  And can't she have it all? I'm trying to, what's the, I mean, Fatal Attraction is 87 and that's always in my, this.

• 17:54Yasi Salek?

  Also in a way about an ambitious woman.

• 17:56Speaker 04

  It is, yeah. She's, and you know, she's a book editor, another New York person, and it doesn't really, it doesn't work out. Um.

• 18:04Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, I just, I think it's, it's cool and interesting, just given that like, I was reading some stuff about the movie and people were being like, we had not seen sexual harassment.

• 18:15Speaker 04

  Right.

• 18:15Yasi Salek?

  Portrayed on screen in the workplace.

• 18:17Speaker 04

  And also the sexual harassment in this movie is portrayed by Kevin Spacey, which is just absolutely incredible foresight by director Mike Nichols.

• 18:26Yasi Salek?

  Really crazy. Who actually also put him in Heartburn. I think that was his very first film.

• 18:30Speaker 04

  Yeah. Um, but he, you know.

• 18:32Yasi Salek?

  Subway Thief is who he plays.

• 18:33Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 18:34Yasi Salek?

  Um, I haven't seen that movie.

• 18:36Speaker 04

  You haven't seen Heartburn? Oh, it's so great. And it's like, it's very maligned and I don't think it was critically received at the time. So it's an adaptation of the, uh, the, the seminal Nora Ephron.

• 18:46Yasi Salek?

  Sure.

• 18:47Speaker 04

  Uh, book about, a romanc clef about her marriage and divorce from Carl Bernstein of the Washington Post of Watergate. And so it star, it's, the screenplay is by Nora Ephron.

• 19:00Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 19:01Speaker 04

  And then it stars Meryl Streep and Jack Nicholson. And it's, it's wonderful. Heartburn, the book is also like.

• 19:08Yasi Salek?

  How could it be bad?

• 19:09Speaker 04

  Screw, like, screw Working Girl, like, please go read, uh, Heartburn.

• 19:14Yasi Salek?

  Okay.

• 19:14Speaker 04

  And it's, it's great because, so the, the main character, Rachel, is a recipe developer. So there are like recipes written in it, but like not.

• 19:24Yasi Salek?

  In the book?

• 19:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, in, through the book, in, in like a memoiristic sort of way. And there's a key lime pie recipe that's, it's pretty good. It's not as good as mine. Um, but it's pivotal to the plot at the end of the, yeah. And then Heartburn, the movie has like an incredibly sexy scene where Meryl Streep makes carbonara for Jack Nicholson and they eat it in bed together.

• 19:44Yasi Salek?

  Okay, on my way.

• 19:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:46Yasi Salek?

  When I get home.

• 19:47Speaker 04

  It's really good.

• 19:47Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, can't wait.

• 19:48Speaker 04

  Um, and that's another, you know, Mike Nichols works with Meryl Streep several times. I didn't mention Postcards from Ed, The Edge earlier, which comes after this.

• 19:56Yasi Salek?

  A.

• 19:56Speaker 04

  Delightful.

• 19:57Yasi Salek?

  Fucking everything, the book, the film.

• 20:00Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 20:01Yasi Salek?

  Top tier.

• 20:02Speaker 04

  Um, yeah, so Mike Nichols role. I've also always just on what this movie is like big picture about. Sorry to sorry, you know, to bring the the brand. I didn't mean to, but you know, it's like every time I say big picture, um, a cinephile gets a Blu-ray or whatever. So Mike Nichols is was like a huge um, a stage director and like titan of theater and then became like, you know, a classic movie director, but he was also an immigrant and he was like the king of New York society. But the first shot of this movie is circling around the Empire, uh, not the Empire State Building, the Statue of Liberty.

• 20:44Speaker 04

  And it is shown um, behind Tess, who is coming from Staten Island. So geographically that makes sense. But like, it's not that subtle a metaphor about what it is like to come to America.

• 20:58Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, to try to break into a society that is not.

• 21:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, and also that the portrayal of America is so capitalist based makes a lot of sense.

• 21:08Yasi Salek?

  Is like Russian and German Jewish.

• 21:11Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 21:11Yasi Salek?

  I read, so it came to America with his family very early, obviously, you know, to avoid bad things. Um, and yeah, I had to break in.

• 21:20Speaker 04

  Right.

• 21:20Yasi Salek?

  Did, I'm sure you know, because you read the book, but this, I've been thinking about it for a week.

• 21:24Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 21:25Yasi Salek?

  That he had a um, affliction when he was four years old that caused him to lose all of his hair, including his eyebrows. And for his entire life, he wore fake eyebrows and wigs.

• 21:33Speaker 04

  Mm hmm. I didn't know that and he was, he was vulnerable about it.

• 21:37Yasi Salek?

  Couldn't stop thinking about it.

• 21:38Speaker 04

  This is a great biography. Yeah, well, I, I mean, I think he paid a lot of care to it. He was, you know, um.

• 21:44Yasi Salek?

  Our friend Nicole Kidman could learn a thing or two, is all I'm saying.

• 21:48Speaker 04

  He was like a, you know, an empathetic and very talented director who was also a man about town and very uh, concerned with visual appearances and confidence, his own and others.

• 22:01Yasi Salek?

  Had no eyebrows.

• 22:02Speaker 04

  Yeah. But um, but the, but anyway, that, that reading, which is not exactly like rocket science, because once again, the Statue of Liberty is front and center in about half of this movie. But it does kind of, it sets up Let the River Run and the interpretation of let the, you know.

• 22:18Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 22:19Speaker 04

  Like in a, in a way that there's a, there's a reason that that song has the lyrics that it has and then plays through the movie.

• 22:26Yasi Salek?

  Because then what we will talk about, but it should be noted, obviously, that that song was written by Carly Simon explicitly for this film. Based on seeing this film, like it is, you know.

• 22:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:38Yasi Salek?

  Made to order.

• 22:44Speaker 00

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• 23:13Speaker 01

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• 23:39Yasi Salek?

  Okay, so this was a Christmas film.

• 23:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:43Yasi Salek?

  Cost twenty eight million dollars to make.

• 23:45Speaker 04

  I mean.

• 23:46Yasi Salek?

  Putting my shot on fantasy. I don't know.

• 23:47Speaker 04

  In the, in the eighties. I think it was like, you know, this was a, a time when movie studios made movies featuring grownups speaking to each other, filmed in real places and then put them out at Christmas and people went to see them and then they got nominated for Oscar.

• 24:03Yasi Salek?

  It made a lot of money.

• 24:04Speaker 04

  We used to be a country, etc.

• 24:07Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 24:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 24:07Yasi Salek?

  Um, I think probably they spent a lot of money on Harrison Ford, if I had to guess, because he was very famous then. This is post Indiana Jones and Star Wars.

• 24:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 24:15Yasi Salek?

  And he's, he's arguably the most famous person in this film at that time.

• 24:19Speaker 04

  And Sigourney Weaver is also very big, yeah.

• 24:23Yasi Salek?

  And one and two.

• 24:25Speaker 04

  Um, yeah, and I think Aliens is before this.

• 24:28Yasi Salek?

  Yes, I think just before.

• 24:29Speaker 04

  And then she also, is she, is she nominated for a different Oscar this year for a different film?

• 24:37Yasi Salek?

  Is she?

• 24:38Speaker 04

  Or maybe I'm, maybe that's eighty seven. When is Gorillaz in the Mist?

• 24:42Yasi Salek?

  Babe.

• 24:43Speaker 04

  Gorillaz in the Mist is also nineteen eighty eight. Yeah.

• 24:45Yasi Salek?

  Come on now. Oh, so she was nominated for both?

• 24:47Speaker 04

  I believe so. I think she gets um, supporting for this and actress for. Yeah, and she's up against Melanie Griffith. Yes, I'm correct. Thank you.

• 25:02Yasi Salek?

  You know what? That's why.

• 25:03Speaker 04

  So, yeah.

• 25:04Yasi Salek?

  Why you're that.

• 25:04Speaker 04

  So Harrison Ford, Sigourney Weaver, and then Melanie Griffith, who, it's a rocky road.

• 25:10Yasi Salek?

  Right. Semi-esque known quantity, but had done something wild, which was her sort of redemption arc that I, and I read that um, they, her agent at the time, her manager, I can't remember the manager, agent, basically begged, um, is it Jonathan Demme? That did.

• 25:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 25:32Yasi Salek?

  Well, yeah, I love that movie. Again, also phenomenal soundtrack. Um, to show Mike Nichols the film, because it hadn't come out yet, so that he would cast Melanie Griffith.

• 25:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 25:44Yasi Salek?

  And he did, and that led to this. Although, to tie in the soundtrack for just one second, we talked about, it made good money. It made a hundred and two million dollars worldwide. But after Carly Simon won that Oscar for the song, spoiler, she won the Oscar, Grammy and Golden Globe for the song, very popular song. Um, the film's box office receipts rose forty percent.

• 26:06Speaker 04

  Oh, after the Oscars. Well, yeah, so this, I mean, again, we used to be a country where then the Oscars would come out and.

• 26:15Yasi Salek?

  And the movie was still in theaters.

• 26:16Speaker 04

  Yes, and the people were also interested in the Oscars, so once the movie got a bunch of nominations, the people who hadn't seen it went to go see it.

• 26:25Yasi Salek?

  Wrap my mind around a movie being in the theaters for five months anymore. Like, what?

• 26:29Speaker 04

  I mean, Top Gun Maverick was.

• 26:31Yasi Salek?

  Oh, was it?

• 26:32Speaker 04

  I think so. Maybe it was on and off. I don't, honestly, I don't know how long The Odyssey is gonna be in theaters.

• 26:37Yasi Salek?

  Be a long time.

• 26:38Speaker 04

  It, I'm trying to see other movies right now and it's hard because The Odyssey is just crowding everything. Yeah, which I, you know, get, get your money, I guess.

• 26:45Yasi Salek?

  I saw it in Kansas City and there was a person in the theater that had an odor that was really um, acrid.

• 26:53Speaker 04

  Okay, yeah, and, and powerful.

• 26:55Yasi Salek?

  Pungent. And I kind of was like grateful because I was like, wow, this is like a fourth dimension.

• 27:01Speaker 04

  Mmm, it was sort of The Odyssey and forty X.

• 27:04Yasi Salek?

  Because you know those men smelled bad.

• 27:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, I think everyone smelled bad.

• 27:08Yasi Salek?

  For sure.

• 27:09Speaker 04

  Right?

• 27:09Yasi Salek?

  But then you get to like the Trojan horse, you know, when you know it smelled crazy in there.

• 27:12Speaker 04

  Right.

• 27:13Yasi Salek?

  So kind of it added to my experience in a way. Yeah. Um, sorry, this is not a podcast about The Odyssey. Um, if you are interested in a podcast about The Odyssey, there are several in the big picture feed. I did listen to both of them and they're really good.

• 27:24Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 27:24Yasi Salek?

  Um, okay, let's talk about the making of this film. We're, we're gonna fill this time. Even though there's only three songs in the soundtrack, we're gonna make, we're gonna make it work. Um, it all started with a woman wearing sneakers in real life.

• 27:36Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 27:37Yasi Salek?

  Kevin Wade, the screenwriter, he said, back then, I spent a lot of time on a bicycle riding around New York. There was an abandoned roadway I would get on in the village and take down to Battery Park. I would see the Staten Island ferry coming over and those women in sneakers getting off and then stopping to change into dress shoes. That's how I discovered this story, a modern day immigrant story, to your point, of a person who comes here not really speaking the language, not with the right clothes, not knowing the customs, but with smarts. It's the Horatio Alger story. I knew right away it was about a young woman. You obviously know who Horatio Alger is. I didn't. So he writes young adult novels about impoverished boys and their rise from humble backgrounds. Such as Ragged Dick.

• 28:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 28:17Yasi Salek?

  Who amongst us has not experienced a ragged dick, is all I'm saying. I don't.

• 28:23Speaker 04

  Congratulations if you haven't.

• 28:25Yasi Salek?

  Are you familiar with that story?

• 28:26Speaker 04

  Um, I don't know if I've read that one. Horatio Alger is one of those things where you got, get taught the reference before you get taught any of the actual literature.

• 28:33Yasi Salek?

  Maybe it was like those books were very popular at that, at a time and then no one really returns to them as works of great. I've not read any of them.

• 28:41Speaker 04

  Unless you, unless you're doing like nineteenth century American, you know, studies, which more power to you.

• 28:47Yasi Salek?

  Um, so Kevin Wade, an ally, uh, wrote this script. And he said, I remember very distinctly writing Tess exactly as I would write a guy. I didn't change a thing. I thought to myself, maybe the secret to this is don't make her a woman, just make her a character. Kevin Wade said, what if women are people?

• 29:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:07Yasi Salek?

  Also.

• 29:08Speaker 04

  Powerful.

• 29:08Yasi Salek?

  What if a woman is also a person? And you know what, Kevin Wade?

• 29:13Speaker 04

  We say thank you.

• 29:14Yasi Salek?

  We say thank you. I'm just kidding, it's cool, but that, that really made me laugh.

• 29:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:18Yasi Salek?

  What if it was just like another person? Um, and then he partnered with the producer Doug Wick and they were like, let's go sell this. And guess what? Nobody wanted it.

• 29:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, sure. Yeah, no one else knew that women were also people.

• 29:30Yasi Salek?

  The directors were like, are you going to tell me a woman is a person?

• 29:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:33Yasi Salek?

  It's gonna work.

• 29:34Speaker 04

  The, the women have equal credit, but not equal rights, you know, so.

• 29:39Yasi Salek?

  The directors were like, this is a TV movie and they were like rude. And then Fox bought it.

• 29:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:44Yasi Salek?

  And did you know that Demi Moore was originally attached to play the lead in this film?

• 29:47Speaker 04

  I had heard that, yeah. I mean, that makes sense time wise.

• 29:51Yasi Salek?

  Do you feel as a lover and aficionado of working girl?

• 29:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 29:55Yasi Salek?

  That it would be as good?

• 29:59Speaker 04

  No, I don't feel that it would be as good. With respect to Demi Moore, who I think found the roles that were right for her.

• 30:06Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 30:06Speaker 04

  But Demi Moore is an interesting one because this movie is one of my favorite movies and I've seen it a million times. But I didn't see it in theaters. I was too little. So it was not, it was like handed down to me as something special that I should see when I was ready. And Demi Moore being attached to this makes sense because she is of a time period. She's like, she was successful.

• 30:28Yasi Salek?

  Totally.

• 30:28Speaker 04

  And like a huge movie star.

• 30:30Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 30:30Speaker 04

  Before I was following along. Like, I know about the Brat Pack.

• 30:34Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 30:34Speaker 04

  And I've seen St. Elmo's Fire and, and listen, Ghost, like very important text.

• 30:40Yasi Salek?

  One of the greatest films of my lifetime. Patrick Swayze, Forever and Ever. There, I would erect a statue in his name, the size of the Trojan Horse that's at the Universal Studios movie theater.

• 30:51Speaker 04

  I completely agree. And also, you know, I remember seeing that pottery scene and maybe I did see that. It's ni, it's ninety, I think. So I would have been six and I watched it and I was just like, what's going on in this pottery scene?

• 31:04Yasi Salek?

  I watched it with my parents and it, yeah, they had no rules about.

• 31:07Speaker 04

  And I was like, I'm interested, you know, I'm leaning, I'm leaning in, even though Sheryl Sandberg hasn't told me to yet. So.

• 31:16Speaker 04

  So Demi Moore, I, I have all, she, like, I feel like I inherited her, but she's not one of my people.

• 31:23Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 31:23Speaker 04

  Right? So I don't really connect in the same way. And you just, you can't change anything about this movie. It's perfect to me.

• 31:29Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, I loved Demi Moore, but I, there's, there's a quote I have later on down and I'll try to find it when we get there, but like, it's that Demi Moore is almost like too, too beautiful is not the right word, but there were a couple of instances they were talking about, like, this actress wouldn't make sense because she would have been married.

• 31:49Speaker 04

  Right.

• 31:49Yasi Salek?

  Right away, you know?

• 31:51Speaker 04

  Right, right, right.

• 31:51Yasi Salek?

  There's, there's something more believable about, because Melanie Griffith is obviously a great beauty as well, but there's something about her that's like, scrappier.

• 32:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 32:00Yasi Salek?

  She has like the sense of that, like, a little flawed in a way that, works for this character, this character is a little bit flawed, you know?

• 32:08Speaker 04

  Right. And also, she's very beautiful and she has been working like a, a fair amount in movies, but like, in Brian De Palma's body double, you know, like in, in smaller parts, in parts where she's not the princess, she's not already, you know, America's sweetheart in the way that Demi Moore is, and you can't, like, on Demi Moore, Demi Moore in 1988. To have people be like, oh yeah, sure, we, you know, we've never heard of this person, but she's, she's gonna make it and we're rooting for her.

• 32:41Yasi Salek?

  She's a great actress. I'm sure she could have pulled it off, but I think you're right.

• 32:44Speaker 04

  But, but it's more about audience associations.

• 32:46Yasi Salek?

  Yeah. I, I guess something happened on Wall Street with Ivan Boski, who is the inspiration for Gordon Gekko.

• 32:52Speaker 04

  Sure, yeah.

• 32:53Yasi Salek?

  The big insider trading scandal, and then that, they lost the director who was the one that was gonna, Jim Bridges.

• 33:00Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 33:01Yasi Salek?

  Urban cowboy. Um, and he wanted to do something else, so that's when Mike Nichols came in to play your beloved Michael Nichols.

• 33:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:09Yasi Salek?

  Born Igor Mikhail Pachowski.

• 33:11Speaker 04

  He's a great director of actors and, and movie stars and understands, movie stars' powers, like, on their own and both, to do things that surprise you, even though they are, you know, Harrison Ford is a known quantity.

• 33:25Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 33:25Speaker 04

  Meryl Streep is like an extremely known quality. But he, he just, he is great at directing people talking and emotions and, this movie has like a lot of set pieces and a lot of fun, and I spent 45 minutes Googling the dress last night. Again, we can't find it anywhere.

• 33:44Yasi Salek?

  It's half of the dress that she steals from Catherine's closet?

• 33:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's $6,000 and it's not even leather in 1988.

• 33:52Yasi Salek?

  I couldn't, I mean, what could that, it must have been couture.

• 33:55Speaker 04

  I guess so.

• 33:56Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, what would be $6,000?

• 33:58Speaker 04

  I'd like to drill down on Catherine's apartment at some point. Um, but, so, so he has all the other parts that, that make a great director, but, um, the way that he works with actors and specifically women actors, which this is so evident in this movie.

• 34:17Yasi Salek?

  It's $16,900 in today's money. I just want you to know.

• 34:20Speaker 04

  Okay, that's not like,

• 34:21Yasi Salek?

  That's not crazy.

• 34:22Speaker 04

  I mean, that's not what they're charging for couture at this point.

• 34:25Yasi Salek?

  No, that would be even more. It's like a hundred thousand dollars. So I guess it's just a really nice Dior dress or something.

• 34:33Yasi Salek?

  Anyways, we can.

• 34:34Speaker 04

  Probably Chanel, right? Like, what the Blazi is like, an off the rack?

• 34:39Yasi Salek?

  I've not spent a lot of time.

• 34:41Speaker 04

  Me either. I was thinking.

• 34:42Yasi Salek?

  Chanel boutique looking at dresses.

• 34:44Speaker 04

  I was thinking about going in Venice because there's like more available in Europe than there is here in the US because of their weird, you know?

• 34:51Yasi Salek?

  What are you looking to buy?

• 34:53Speaker 04

  Well, nothing is the thing because I can't afford any of it, but maybe in Venice, um, our shared home, I can at least discover what the price of the dresses is.

• 35:02Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, do a little recon and get back to us. Um, a fun fact.

• 35:06Speaker 04

  Lauren, if you're listening, I'm sorry. I know, we should know this.

• 35:09Yasi Salek?

  We should know how much.

• 35:10Speaker 04

  How much is a Chanel dress, Matthew Blazier? Let's, I'm just Googling it right now.

• 35:15Yasi Salek?

  I mean, there's definitely, there's definitely like $16,000, like Saint Laurent.

• 35:19Speaker 04

  Okay, so there's something here on the website? Oh, this is a pretty dress that's listed at 14,000.

• 35:26Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 35:27Speaker 04

  Okay. So, all right, you're ready to wear Blazi?

• 35:32Yasi Salek?

  The costume designer was like, I hope nobody notices that they're absolutely different sizes because, Sigourney Weaver, I guess, is much taller.

• 35:40Speaker 04

  Much, much taller.

• 35:41Yasi Salek?

  And she was like, that dress would never have fit Sigourney Weaver. It would have been like a mini tiny skirt on her.

• 35:47Speaker 04

  Right. Well, that's why it still has the tag.

• 35:49Yasi Salek?

  That's right. Maybe it didn't fit her. Um, back to Mike Nichols.

• 35:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 35:53Yasi Salek?

  Something really important for my purposes is that he was a music aficionado.

• 35:58Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 35:58Yasi Salek?

  Very important. He had, prior to entering the entertainment world, as a comedic actor and performer, his first real thing was he was a, like a, radio DJ. And on a, um, W F M T in Chicago, and he had a folk music program on Saturday nights called The Midnight Special.

• 36:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 36:21Yasi Salek?

  I bring this up to say the man knows music, and actually, we'll get to it later, but he hand chose Simon and Garfunkel, and the repertoire of music.

• 36:29Speaker 04

  Right.

• 36:30Yasi Salek?

  For The Graduate, including having them change Mrs. Robinson into Mrs. Robinson, because it was like Mrs. Vanderkamp or something. I didn't write that down. Someone will correct me, but. So my man knows ball is what I'm saying.

• 36:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, a thousand percent. And that was kind of like the Mike Nichols thing, just like an immensely cultured dude.

• 36:47Yasi Salek?

  A big ball knower.

• 36:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, in, in all, in all walks.

• 36:51Yasi Salek?

  Yeah. Okay, so you talked about it. He had been, you know, he had done, been a very, first an actor, comedic actor, and then a big theater director, and then.

• 37:01Speaker 04

  And, and the Elaine May, like Nichols and May are sort of like a legendary 50s, I believe, comedy duo.

• 37:10Speaker 04

  That kind of launches them both into Hollywood.

• 37:13Yasi Salek?

  So the producer was like, we amazingly got word back that Mike Nichols was interested and I should fly to meet with him in Arkansas where he was shooting Biloxi Blues, also a good movie. He loved the script. Being a Jew from Germany, coming here, being an immigrant, facing all kinds of barriers, yet wanting to have it all, he connected it from a very gut and primal place. Again, just like you said. Apparently, just do you know Madonna was mentioned?

• 37:35Speaker 04

  For the soundtrack or for the?

• 37:37Yasi Salek?

  To play Tessa Miguel.

• 37:39Speaker 04

  I mean, she could do all of the cheeky in office stuff incredibly well.

• 37:46Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 37:47Speaker 04

  Her and Baldwin, like, having an emotional.

• 37:50Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

• 37:51Speaker 04

  Not in her range. She would have been really great in Joan Cusack's role, but Joan Cusack is great in it.

• 37:56Yasi Salek?

  She's so good. Yeah, I guess Mike Nichols had seen her on The Tonight Show and was like, there's something interesting about this woman.

• 38:00Speaker 04

  Yeah. Also, once again, Mike Nichols knows ball.

• 38:02Yasi Salek?

  Knows ball. Um, Michelle Pfeiffer.

• 38:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 38:05Yasi Salek?

  That was the one where they were like, I'm so sorry that she would have been married by 200 men by then, and that's so true. She said, they said, we needed an old fashioned movie star, someone when they had glasses on. You believe they had a little anonymity and as soon as they took them off, you saw they were a beauty. They were recreating, creating She's All That from First Principles.

• 38:26Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 38:26Yasi Salek?

  You maybe are the first principle in She's All That.

• 38:31Yasi Salek?

  No, right? That's what that whole movie is about.

• 38:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, it is.

• 38:34Yasi Salek?

  Take the ponytail and glasses off.

• 38:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's, it's the only time that's ever happened in cinema also.

• 38:40Yasi Salek?

  One time, one time only. Should we take a quick, uh, Melanie Griffith sidebar?

• 38:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, I think you have to, to talk about this movie. She had her ups and downs.

• 38:51Yasi Salek?

  They don't make stars like this anymore with these kinds of backstories.

• 38:54Speaker 04

  No, they don't.

• 38:55Yasi Salek?

  So as you guys may or may not know, Amanda obviously knows that her mother is Tippi Hedren, who was not an actor until her parents got divorced. She was a model. Um, and then after she had her, then was cast in The Birds.

• 39:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 39:12Yasi Salek?

  Um, when she was 14 years old, Melanie Griffith, she met Don Johnson.

• 39:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 39:19Yasi Salek?

  On the set of a movie called The Herod Experiment with her mom. He was 22. And her mom was like, go right ahead.

• 39:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 39:26Yasi Salek?

  You could date that man. And it was a different time.

• 39:31Speaker 04

  Sure. And, you know, I think Tippi Hedren has also been fairly, uh, forthcoming about her experiences in Hollywood. I mean, she's a Hitchcock star, you know, that's not like a parade of roses.

• 39:42Yasi Salek?

  I don't know if that's the most dangerous situation she put her daughter in, because she actually like let a lion live in their house, so, um, we'll get to that. But, I mean, it worked out great. They, that, they were obviously a great loves of each other's lives, like, they got married when she was 18 for six months, divorced. She married someone else.

• 40:00Speaker 04

  Was it, it wasn't Antonio Banderas, yeah, was it?

• 40:03Yasi Salek?

  She married some other guy.

• 40:04Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 40:04Yasi Salek?

  I believe had a child with him.

• 40:06Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 40:06Yasi Salek?

  Divorced him and remarried Don Johnson.

• 40:08Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 40:09Yasi Salek?

  Had Dakota Johnson.

• 40:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 40:10Yasi Salek?

  Who is an actress.

• 40:13Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 40:13Yasi Salek?

  And I love the materialist.

• 40:14Speaker 04

  And is very beautiful.

• 40:15Yasi Salek?

  Very beautiful. The film Roar, which I have not seen, have you seen it?

• 40:20Speaker 04

  I don't think so.

• 40:21Yasi Salek?

  Roar is the one that Tippi Hedren and her new stepfather Noel Marshall spent years making in which, which is why the lion lived in their house.

• 40:29Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 40:30Yasi Salek?

  They played, uh, animal keepers whose various wild animals turned on them. It's actually been, um, noted to be one of the most dangerous films ever made.

• 40:39Speaker 04

  Okay, because of the lion?

• 40:40Yasi Salek?

  They had real animals and actually Melanie Griffith was mauled by a lion on set and had to undergo facial reconstruction surgery.

• 40:47Speaker 04

  Okay. Uh, well, they did a good job.

• 40:51Yasi Salek?

  She looked great.

• 40:51Speaker 04

  I'm sorry that that happened.

• 40:52Yasi Salek?

  Sorry that happened. Um.

• 40:55Speaker 04

  I still, I mean, it's not, obviously everyone should be safe, uh, to humans and to animals, but I still am like, they used to be able to make movies with animals and now I have this CGI bullshit?

• 41:07Yasi Salek?

  Not to bring it up again, but The Odyssey did feature several gorgeous real cats.

• 41:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:12Yasi Salek?

  Cats. So that made me happy.

• 41:14Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 41:15Yasi Salek?

  And.

• 41:15Speaker 04

  But I don't know whether any of them were living in Christopher Nolan's home.

• 41:18Yasi Salek?

  I don't think so. Also, my favorite, Who's That Girl? That's a real ass panther.

• 41:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:24Yasi Salek?

  So Melanie Griffith, you said this earlier, but she was a child star and she basically had some pretty bad, drinking and drug abuse issues.

• 41:30Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 41:31Yasi Salek?

  Around, by this time.

• 41:32Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 41:32Yasi Salek?

  And she was sort of on a redemption arc, doing something wild, like we said, and she said, they didn't even want to see me for the movie. My agent said, listen, I'm having a hard time getting you in. They wanted a bigger movie. I wasn't very much of a name, but I loved this role and I knew I could do it. My story is Tessa's story. I don't know how.

• 41:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, I don't know about that, but uh.

• 41:55Yasi Salek?

  Okay, if you felt it. Um, she clearly felt it.

• 41:58Speaker 04

  I mean, I guess in the sense that like, she wasn't wanted in the room and she made it in the room anyway. In the sense that her mom is to be Hedren.

• 42:07Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 42:08Speaker 04

  You know, that's not exactly taking the Staten Island Ferry to work every day.

• 42:11Yasi Salek?

  Not really.

• 42:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 42:12Yasi Salek?

  It's more living in a house with a lion that's the.

• 42:15Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 42:15Yasi Salek?

  Um. The casting director actually wanted Alec Baldwin to play Jack Trainer.

• 42:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 42:23Yasi Salek?

  And that's, that's what they told him he was doing, right?

• 42:25Speaker 04

  Right. And then didn't Nichols have to call him back and say?

• 42:28Yasi Salek?

  Hey, sorry.

• 42:28Speaker 04

  Hey, actually.

• 42:29Yasi Salek?

  And then like apparently he was a good sport about it.

• 42:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 42:31Yasi Salek?

  Um.

• 42:32Speaker 04

  For the last time in his life.

• 42:33Yasi Salek?

  Did you read that um Melanie Griffith then passed on the accidental tourist to do this?

• 42:42Speaker 04

  Which one is the accidental tourist?

• 42:43Yasi Salek?

  It's the one that Gina Davis won the.

• 42:45Speaker 04

  Oh, the Lawrence Kazan one. Yeah, but have you seen that movie?

• 42:47Yasi Salek?

  Nope.

• 42:48Speaker 04

  It's really, I, I think Melanie Griffith made the correct decision. I'm happy Gina Davis has an Oscar. Gina Davis is wonderful. Uh, in all things, including that movie, which otherwise um is not memorable to me. How about that?

• 43:01Yasi Salek?

  I like that that her agent, her agent put together that movie, came to her and was like, look, whoever plays Muriel and Axonol Torres could win an Academy Award and whoever does working girl will be a star. And she, and Melody was like,

• 43:13Yasi Salek?

  I want to be a star.

• 43:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, good job.

• 43:15Yasi Salek?

  And good job.

• 43:15Speaker 04

  Right. Except then she didn't get off the sauce.

• 43:19Yasi Salek?

  Yes. So she was fined seventy five thousand dollars from her paycheck because she showed up to set heavily intoxicated and could not do her lines coherently. And they used that money to reshoot those scenes.

• 43:35Speaker 04

  Yeah. So there's a bit in the Nichols book and she's also talked about it where she just did not have her shit together for this.

• 43:45Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 43:45Speaker 04

  For, for many parts of this movie. And then at some point, like Nichols really did sit her down and was like, listen.

• 43:51Yasi Salek?

  Get it together.

• 43:52Speaker 04

  Like, you have to, we need you for the movie. Um, and I, you know, varying accounts of how kind and supportive versus how direct and in front of people that was.

• 44:01Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 44:01Speaker 04

  But.

• 44:02Yasi Salek?

  It makes a lot of sense though, because I didn't read this till after I saw the movie again. And I was like, she's a little drunk sometimes.

• 44:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, she says, well, and she also just, she seems, does she, you know, at some points, like her face, she looks very, very puffy.

• 44:17Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 44:18Speaker 04

  And very like, you know, worn down, which, you know, I guess that happens in the, in the great game that is Wall Street. But yeah, you can tell if you're watching. Yeah.

• 44:27Yasi Salek?

  Joan Cusack, my queen.

• 44:29Speaker 04

  Coffee, tea, me.

• 44:31Yasi Salek?

  Lights up every scene. Um, the makeup and hair artist was Meryl Streep's makeup artist. And um, she said he bleached the ends of her hair so it looked burnt.

• 44:41Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 44:42Yasi Salek?

  And he also said, the teasing of your hair should only take as long as the ferry ride. So I'll only spend twenty minutes on it because that's what these women would do.

• 44:49Speaker 04

  Really very.

• 44:50Yasi Salek?

  Realism.

• 44:51Speaker 04

  Really great.

• 44:51Yasi Salek?

  Yeah. Other fun facts, Mike Nichols set Melanie Griffith up with a real investment banker. Named Liam Dalton to teach her about mergers and acquisitions. And she was like, I don't want to go, go hang out with some dork from Wall Street. And the man was gorgeous and sexy and they ended up having a very long relationship.

• 45:07Speaker 04

  Great.

• 45:08Yasi Salek?

  So that worked out. And as you said, Kevin Spacey's first real film role. And he almost missed it because he was late.

• 45:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 45:15Yasi Salek?

  And they were going to have Kevin Wade, the writer who used to be an actor, play it, but he showed up.

• 45:20Speaker 04

  Uh, when people tell you who they are, believe them, you know?

• 45:22Yasi Salek?

  Well, he didn't write his own part, but yes. Also Oliver Platt is worth mentioning.

• 45:27Speaker 04

  Oh, that's great. One of her, yeah.

• 45:29Yasi Salek?

  Piggy boss from the beginning. Um, and the topless vacuuming scene.

• 45:34Speaker 04

  Her idea.

• 45:35Yasi Salek?

  Her idea. What, do you remember what music was playing during the topless vacuuming scene?

• 45:39Speaker 04

  It's.

• 45:40Yasi Salek?

  It's an iteration.

• 45:41Speaker 04

  And it's a iteration. I, I would, it's like more of like a string quartet, right? Yeah. No, I mean, I pretty much have this all memorized, which is why I was like, I, this is eligible, even though it's not an extensive soundtrack, because I can remember all the different variations on the theme.

• 45:55Yasi Salek?

  I'm happy to push the boundaries.

• 45:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, thank you so much.

• 45:58Yasi Salek?

  To be a soundtrack. Should we talk a bit about the music?

• 46:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 46:01Yasi Salek?

  Now that we've told everybody about everything about the movie, which you should definitely go see. Carly Simon also wrote a song for Heartburn.

• 46:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 46:09Yasi Salek?

  It was a hit. Um, and it's called, Nobody Does It, No.

• 46:16Speaker 04

  No, that's the Bond song. Carly Simon.

• 46:19Yasi Salek?

  Coming Around Again. It's called Coming Around Again. Sorry. Also, as you know, but fun fact for book lovers, her father is Simon of Simon and.

• 46:27Speaker 04

  Yeah. Have you, so she's written two memoirs?

• 46:30Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, I haven't read them.

• 46:31Speaker 04

  So one of them is like a real literary memoir about the first twenty something years of her career, you know, maybe longer and growing up and her marriage to um James Taylor.

• 46:45Yasi Salek?

  Taylor.

• 46:46Speaker 04

  And.

• 46:47Yasi Salek?

  But you think the song is about you, don't you?

• 46:49Speaker 04

  Yeah. And all sorts of, and it's really interesting, but it doesn't make it to Working Girl. The second movie that she, the second book that she wrote, maybe she's written, she's written children's books too, but the other memoir is it just like an incredibly deranged memoir about her late in life friendship with Jackie Kennedy or Jackie Onassis then as she was at the time.

• 47:08Yasi Salek?

  That sounds incredible. That's the one I want to read.

• 47:10Speaker 04

  And it is, I like, I do think they were friendly, but it, it, it's a very one sided sort of, I, I mean, I think they were friends.

• 47:19Yasi Salek?

  Rachel Cusk Natalie Portman book?

• 47:21Speaker 04

  Well, so it's not, it's not about Jackie. It like it is, but it is all stream of consciousness. It's like, you know how we all have one friend where you don't really think that she's your friend or you want to impress her or like everything you're doing, you're trying to like keep up.

• 47:37Yasi Salek?

  Jackie O.

• 47:38Speaker 04

  Yeah. And it's, and, and then she just writes down the inner monologue and every single thing that she should have been said, said to a therapist about her friendship with Jackie. Oh, and then publishes it. It's incredible, but it doesn't really mention a lot about Working Girl either that I could find when I skimmed through it last night.

• 47:55Yasi Salek?

  A lot to talk about.

• 47:56Speaker 04

  Yeah. I think that she was just friendly with Mike Nichols because that's the kind of guy Mike Nichols was.

• 48:00Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, like we said, they dated briefly.

• 48:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 48:02Yasi Salek?

  Um, and obviously she had done another song for him and so he returned to her. Um, and she was, you know, she was quite a big pop star at this time. She'd done other, a lot of other film songs too. A movie called Soup For One, which I've never heard of or seen.

• 48:20Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 48:21Yasi Salek?

  She did a song called Why For That.

• 48:22Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 48:22Yasi Salek?

  A film, a movie called Love Child. Do you know about this film?

• 48:25Speaker 04

  No.

• 48:25Yasi Salek?

  Me neither. Nineteen eighty two. She did a song called Something More. Swing Shift, heard of it. Haven't seen it. Um, she did a song called Something Waits For You. Torchlight.

• 48:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 48:33Yasi Salek?

  All The Love In The World.

• 48:35Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 48:37Yasi Salek?

  Nothing In Common.

• 48:38Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 48:39Yasi Salek?

  If It Wasn't Love is a song.

• 48:40Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 48:41Yasi Salek?

  And then she did a, a song for The Karate Kid, Part Two.

• 48:45Speaker 04

  Listen.

• 48:46Yasi Salek?

  She's working. She's a working girl.

• 48:47Speaker 04

  Taylor Swift has also done a lot of songs for movies at this point.

• 48:51Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 48:51Speaker 04

  And I don't sit through the credits for, of most of them.

• 48:54Yasi Salek?

  Cash those checks.

• 48:54Speaker 04

  Or I guess she lends them out at this point, but she wrote the song for Toy Story Five because she wants an Oscar.

• 49:00Yasi Salek?

  Oh geez, is that, is the song good? I haven't seen the film.

• 49:02Speaker 04

  I didn't listen to it. Yeah.

• 49:03Yasi Salek?

  Oh, it's only at the end credits?

• 49:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, which I don't really think counts.

• 49:06Yasi Salek?

  Doesn't count. Why?

• 49:07Speaker 04

  Like, I completely agree with you. This is my longest running issue with original song, the Oscar category.

• 49:13Yasi Salek?

  Over the credits.

• 49:14Speaker 04

  Which is like what they do. And then they, you know, and it's just so Billie Eilish can get like another Oscar instead of my beloved Dua Lipa, who should have an Oscar for Dance The Night Away.

• 49:23Yasi Salek?

  She should have an Oscar, a Grammy.

• 49:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 49:26Yasi Salek?

  A Pulitzer Prize, a Nobel Prize, whatever, MacArthur Genius Grant.

• 49:31Speaker 04

  That's true.

• 49:31Yasi Salek?

  Give them all to Dua Lipa because she is the best pop star we have.

• 49:35Speaker 04

  I completely agree. I just want to live my life like her. I'm trying every day, but

• 49:42Speaker 04

  this song, Let The River Run, which she wrote for Working Girl.

• 49:45Yasi Salek?

  Yes.

• 49:46Speaker 04

  Is actually incorporated into the film. It's like, it's opening credits, but it.

• 49:51Yasi Salek?

  Is it incorporated in the?

• 49:51Speaker 04

  Well, I, no one performs it. It's not like.

• 49:54Yasi Salek?

  No, but I'm joking. It's in, it's in the film nine times or whatever. I made that up, but it's like at every turn, you're like, oh, is that?

• 50:01Speaker 04

  It is, it is anemic.

• 50:02Yasi Salek?

  Techno version of Let The River.

• 50:04Speaker 04

  Specific to, it is specific to the text, if not, you know, performed in the text of.

• 50:11Yasi Salek?

  Exactly what should win. It's, it's inspired by the film, so the lyrics reflect the themes of the film.

• 50:17Speaker 04

  Excuse me, I think that Travis Scott and James Blake would tell you that their Odyssey song was also inspired by the film.

• 50:23Yasi Salek?

  I didn't, didn't hear it.

• 50:24Speaker 04

  Okay. It played at the end.

• 50:27Yasi Salek?

  I might have even had the credits going, didn't even clock it.

• 50:30Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 50:30Yasi Salek?

  That was happening. So no disrespect to Travis Scott, but I don't want that to win.

• 50:36Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 50:36Yasi Salek?

  Um.

• 50:38Speaker 04

  No, you don't want James Blake to win an Oscar?

• 50:40Yasi Salek?

  I don't, I, can I tell you something about me and James Blake? Is that?

• 50:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:43Yasi Salek?

  Almost constantly confuse him with James Blunt and.

• 50:47Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 50:48Yasi Salek?

  Two very different people. James Blunt, You're Beautiful.

• 50:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:52Yasi Salek?

  You're Beautiful.

• 50:54Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 50:54Yasi Salek?

  Um, really funny online. James Blake.

• 50:58Speaker 04

  I will give you.

• 50:59Yasi Salek?

  The boyfriend of Jamila Jamil.

• 51:02Speaker 04

  Still.

• 51:04Yasi Salek?

  I saw them at a New Year's Eve dinner when I was in London.

• 51:08Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 51:09Yasi Salek?

  They happened to not, we were dining, we're not dining together, but I, we saw them from across the room, which is when I was like, oh, James Blunt. And my friend was like, no, James Blake is a different person. I was like, oh, You're Beautiful is a great song.

• 51:20Speaker 04

  I will give you two hundred dollars Venmo because I don't carry that kind of cash with me. If you can tell, get, tell me the name of the song that Travis Scott and James Blake wrote uh for the Odyssey credits. Just guess.

• 51:35Yasi Salek?

  Okay.

• 51:38Yasi Salek?

  It is called, Are You My Dad?

• 51:43Speaker 04

  When I'm home. Just in incredible, incredible imagination, you know, really, really using, interpreting the text and casting a wider net, just like Carly Simon.

• 51:55Yasi Salek?

  I feel like it's like a bit disrespectful to Ludwig van Gornson to like slap that on the end. Anyways, whatever. I'm sure it's a great song. I haven't heard it. Um, Carly Simon, however, a real great song. She said that the lyrics for this song were inspired by the jungle that is Wall Street. It reminds me a little bit of the CNN workshop out there and Santa's Little Helpers. What? And I wanted to write a jungle hymn.

• 52:17Speaker 04

  This is what her, all of her, the first memoir is more disciplined. The Jackie memoir is just that.

• 52:25Yasi Salek?

  I can't, I'm gonna, I need to read it. I was like.

• 52:27Speaker 04

  She like, she has like a breakdown and takes a valium in the bathroom of Cafe. I can't remember whether it's Des Artis or Cafe Luxemburg in um, in York on the Upper West Side while she's waiting for Jackie to show up to a lunch that she thinks Jackie's not gonna. And she's just like staring in the mirror.

• 52:48Speaker 04

  It's incredible. Keep going.

• 52:49Yasi Salek?

  Um, we'll be ordering this book as soon as we're done. She said, and I wanted to write a jungle hymn, so I consulted Walt Whitman, who I consider to be the foremost poet on New York City and got, she didn't actually speak to Walt Whitman. She said that she went back to the text.

• 53:04Speaker 04

  Sure. He also, you know, he was a bridge away from Manhattan.

• 53:09Yasi Salek?

  Sure.

• 53:09Speaker 04

  As opposed to a ferry, but.

• 53:11Yasi Salek?

  She said, I sat down at the piano, played some chords that sounded like a hymn and I imagined a lot of wild native drums from the old Dutch.

• 53:17Speaker 04

  He took a ferry, of course. So, at that, at that time.

• 53:21Yasi Salek?

  Yes.

• 53:22Speaker 04

  From Brooklyn.

• 53:23Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 53:23Speaker 04

  So.

• 53:24Yasi Salek?

  So it connects.

• 53:25Speaker 04

  It's legit.

• 53:25Yasi Salek?

  It connects. I didn't know that, did you, okay, I'm not. We need, we need to see ours history corner here. Cause did the Dutch pioneers play wild native drums? Is that a thing? I'm sure. I don't.

• 53:38Speaker 04

  I would say that we're venturing, you know, into the territory of uh, cultural appropriation and or imagination.

• 53:47Yasi Salek?

  Whatever it is, it worked, babe. And whatever you were imagining, Santa's Little Helpers, Dutch native drums, it all worked. Um, she said, I saw the vast, wonderful skyscape of New York, the silver cities rise, the morning lights, the streets that led them and sirens call them on with a song.

• 54:02Speaker 04

  Yeah. Once again, Odyssey.

• 54:04Yasi Salek?

  Everything leads back to, all roads lead back to Rome and by Rome, I mean Greece.

• 54:09Speaker 04

  They based on Rome. It's okay.

• 54:10Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 54:11Speaker 04

  I mean, they based on, Rome was based on Greece, so it's okay.

• 54:14Yasi Salek?

  Correct. And Troy, the Romans consider themselves the descendants of Troy, right? Of Trojans.

• 54:21Speaker 04

  Do they?

• 54:22Yasi Salek?

  I thought I read that.

• 54:23Speaker 04

  Okay. That's not, I.

• 54:25Yasi Salek?

  There's been like a nonstop Odyssey takes online for like a week and I'm feeling like unwell from it. And I'm like, I actually need a bit of a break.

• 54:34Speaker 04

  I'm pretty sure that, I mean, they're not Greek, they're different, you know? So maybe they wanna pull from the Trojans, but you know, their epic poem, Deoniod, is told in the style of war is, is it an attempt for them to recreate the Iliad and the Odyssey?

• 54:54Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 54:54Speaker 04

  So.

• 54:55Yasi Salek?

  To be like, this is our.

• 54:56Speaker 04

  Like, we're like the next civilization.

• 54:58Yasi Salek?

  I just like, sometimes I log on and I'm like, didn't realize you were all fucking Homeric scholars this whole time.

• 55:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 55:03Yasi Salek?

  And I know you all were such fucking.

• 55:05Speaker 04

  I mean, I was, I was.

• 55:07Yasi Salek?

  Classics major.

• 55:08Speaker 04

  And I don't really remember anything.

• 55:09Yasi Salek?

  You're the only one.

• 55:10Speaker 04

  It's a, it's a great joke to like, take me, like anywhere where there's Latin inscription and then be like a bandit translator. It's Zach's favorite thing to do. And then he's like, I'd name a jawbreaker song.

• 55:21Yasi Salek?

  You could do that.

• 55:22Speaker 04

  No, I can't.

• 55:23Yasi Salek?

  We'll work on that. We'll work on that together. Um. Apparently though, the first cut of the film, they watched it. It was 30 minutes longer.

• 55:32Speaker 04

  Wait, review of the playlist Wife Propeller right now. Go.

• 55:35Yasi Salek?

  That's like, I was like, Wife Propeller, Yasi, Yasi Honey Pot Trap. These are my, and this is why I'm unmarried.

• 55:44Speaker 04

  He was, well, here's the other thing is that obviously it wasn't. I like some of, I like many of those songs too. And I was like, what's wrong with you? And that's when he got really rambling. That was his private space. He was like, get the fuck out of here.

• 55:57Yasi Salek?

  Him and MJ Lunderman have a relationship that you're not part of.

• 56:00Speaker 04

  Okay. It's true. It's true. And I need to respect it.

• 56:05Yasi Salek?

  You guys really should put on some Wife Propeller playlist. The audience of Van's plane will be like.

• 56:09Speaker 04

  I know, but he's gonna be so mad because he's like.

• 56:11Yasi Salek?

  He doesn't like it when you bring it up.

• 56:12Speaker 04

  Yeah. I like, I asked permission to, to write that blog post.

• 56:16Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 56:17Speaker 04

  And he was like, okay, but only because he's written about me so many times that he can't, he couldn't say anything.

• 56:22Yasi Salek?

  We're in a safe space here because once again, I must point out.

• 56:25Speaker 04

  That he doesn't listen to.

• 56:26Yasi Salek?

  Not listening to Van's plane, famously. Okay. So they, they screened this film. It's really long. Um, and all, and they were like Carly Simon's score is not working.

• 56:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 56:37Yasi Salek?

  And they were like, you know what we're gonna use instead? An Eagles song.

• 56:43Speaker 04

  Can you imagine?

• 56:44Yasi Salek?

  Witchy Woman.

• 56:45Speaker 04

  Can you imagine?

• 56:48Yasi Salek?

  First of all.

• 56:49Speaker 04

  Like this is.

• 56:49Yasi Salek?

  First of all, it's called Working Girl.

• 56:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 56:53Yasi Salek?

  And then you're gonna stick Don Henley ass in there? Singing about witchy woman? How dare? Doing Stevie Nicks cosplay upon my beautiful movie?

• 57:04Speaker 04

  Can you imagine how bad this movie would be without? Let the River Run and its many associated variations that score the film.

• 57:13Yasi Salek?

  And no disrespect to the Eagles, who I think do get a lot of respect. I think they're, have some jams. But keep Don Henley out of my Working Girl movie.

• 57:22Speaker 04

  I, I mean, I just am imagining him creating like, ooh, as she's taking the subway. What? I'm not the sub, well, the subway, but the ferry.

• 57:31Yasi Salek?

  The ferry. Yeah. No, it's, it needed to be. When I looked over, I watched it with my cousin as I was previously in Kansas City. And the look of rapture upon her face when the song is playing.

• 57:44Speaker 04

  I mean.

• 57:45Yasi Salek?

  She's having a religious experience.

• 57:47Speaker 04

  First of all, just as like a lights out opener to a movie, you're not gonna get a better lead than those drums, even if they're not culturally specific.

• 57:56Yasi Salek?

  It is bizarre when you watch it because you're like, why am I watching this white lady on a Staten Island ferry? And it's like, it's, yeah, but.

• 58:03Speaker 04

  But no, it's really, really exciting. And then the choir comes on full tilt. It's just like, it announces itself. It holds nothing back. It's like, this is, you know, the great American novel right here. And we're, we're all, you know, this is before I'm the king of the world at the front of the ship, you know?

• 58:21Yasi Salek?

  Oh, sure.

• 58:21Speaker 04

  But it has that energy.

• 58:23Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 58:23Speaker 04

  So.

• 58:24Yasi Salek?

  Carly, Carly.

• 58:25Speaker 04

  How long do I have to keep going like this till you're like, yeah, so you know what? You've seen Titanic.

• 58:29Yasi Salek?

  I saw it in the theater.

• 58:30Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 58:35Yasi Salek?

  I'll defend that movie till the death.

• 58:46Yasi Salek?

  Carly Simon said, um, the movie was not accepted by my record company. Clive Davis didn't like it.

• 58:54Speaker 04

  The movie or the?

• 58:56Yasi Salek?

  The movie before when she was like, gonna do it. But she read the script and she liked it. So she fought for it.

• 59:04Speaker 04

  All right.

• 59:05Yasi Salek?

  Earlier she said Walt Whitman, but then she also said Finnegan's Wake. It was an inspiration because the first word in James Joyce's Finnegan's Wake is, do you know what the first word is?

• 59:14Speaker 04

  I don't.

• 59:15Yasi Salek?

  River Run?

• 59:16Speaker 04

  Oh, sure. I did know that.

• 59:18Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 59:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 59:19Yasi Salek?

  And so then.

• 59:19Speaker 04

  And so then River Run pops up in, in various things and it's an allusion to Finnegan's Wake, but I, Amanda Dobbins, always think that it's an allusion to Working Girl.

• 59:28Yasi Salek?

  To Working Girl. It's this sign signifier. It's not meme, you know?

• 59:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 59:38Speaker 00

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• 1:00:07Speaker 01

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• 1:00:33Yasi Salek?

  All right, let's get into, let's get into the whole soundtrack then, even though this is most of it and I think we've done a good job. Um, it was a successful soundtrack on the back of River Run. Um, sorry, Let the River Run, um, because it, uh, won all those awards. It was not a blockbuster album such as Dirty Dancing or Top Gun.

• 1:00:53Speaker 04

  Well, sure. Yeah. Cause it had two songs, other songs.

• 1:00:56Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, two other songs. But you know, it did okay.

• 1:01:01Yasi Salek?

  I think it's interesting that Let the River Run eventually came to stand in as a thing about nine 11? Did you know about this?

• 1:01:13Speaker 04

  I, I did read about this.

• 1:01:15Yasi Salek?

  Used it as their like commercial song post nine 11.

• 1:01:19Speaker 04

  Well, because.

• 1:01:20Yasi Salek?

  And then she, Carly Simon performed it at the September 11th memorial at Ground Zero in 2009.

• 1:01:26Speaker 04

  I mean, that's, that's not how I would have programmed it.

• 1:01:30Yasi Salek?

  Um, if you were, if you were programming nine 11 chella, what, who would be the headliner?

• 1:01:37Speaker 04

  Oh my God.

• 1:01:40Speaker 04

  It's it's not funny, but um nine eleven chella, I you know, it's just not how I would do it.

• 1:01:47Yasi Salek?

  You would hire James Blake and Travis Scott to sing.

• 1:01:50Speaker 04

  To sing when I'm home.

• 1:01:51Yasi Salek?

  When I'm home.

• 1:01:52Speaker 04

  I guess that the the Twin Towers are, you know, in the in the backdrop and in the music video.

• 1:01:58Yasi Salek?

  True.

• 1:01:58Speaker 04

  They can be seen from the ferry.

• 1:02:00Yasi Salek?

  It's like the phrase is silver cities rise and they're thinking about.

• 1:02:03Speaker 04

  About it's like and it's hopeful and it's I guess it's like reclaiming that space and it's like, you know.

• 1:02:09Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:09Speaker 04

  And it yeah. And they did build it, you know.

• 1:02:11Yasi Salek?

  Lifting him.

• 1:02:12Speaker 04

  They built new offices and new towers there.

• 1:02:15Yasi Salek?

  New Jerusalem.

• 1:02:15Speaker 04

  Sure, yeah, I get it.

• 1:02:17Yasi Salek?

  Apparently, people say it is an allusion to William Blake. This is really in your wheelhouse. Although Carly Simon said, because William Blake, that's religious. Um, she said, no. Um, the poem of William Blake, in case you guys were wondering, Yasi's poetry corner. It's called And Did Those Feet In Ancient Time?

• 1:02:35Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:02:36Yasi Salek?

  It's the preface to his epic Milton.

• 1:02:39Speaker 04

  The tiger is the William Blake poem that I was taught. And so I was Googling lion.

• 1:02:44Yasi Salek?

  Not many people.

• 1:02:45Speaker 04

  I was more in a.

• 1:02:46Yasi Salek?

  William Blake lion.

• 1:02:47Speaker 04

  More in a Melanie Griffith sort of place.

• 1:02:49Yasi Salek?

  Um, I'm not gonna read it, but you can, you know. And did those feet in ancient time walk upon England's mountain green and was the holy lamb of God, et cetera, et cetera. Um, do you know what other film the song is featured in?

• 1:03:05Speaker 04

  Let the River Run?

• 1:03:05Yasi Salek?

  That's right.

• 1:03:08Speaker 04

  Do I want to know?

• 1:03:09Yasi Salek?

  I don't know that you'll ever guess this.

• 1:03:11Speaker 04

  I don't think I know.

• 1:03:12Yasi Salek?

  You've seen it, which you probably, maybe you have, you've seen a lot of films.

• 1:03:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, but I would remember if they were using Let the River Run. Remember, I got mad when the Sofia Coppola and Mark Jacobs doc used the I'll Try Anything Once demo again after using it in somewhere?

• 1:03:24Yasi Salek?

  Yes, you were quite upset.

• 1:03:26Speaker 04

  I was like, you can't reuse your own.

• 1:03:27Yasi Salek?

  Honestly, fairly upset.

• 1:03:28Speaker 04

  Like, I had a nice time with that movie.

• 1:03:31Yasi Salek?

  I think it's okay if you're referencing yourself, but not if you're just like.

• 1:03:34Speaker 04

  But that was.

• 1:03:35Yasi Salek?

  Here's a needle drop again.

• 1:03:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, I like this song.

• 1:03:37Yasi Salek?

  Yeah. No, it is the two thousand, it's actually featured twice in this film. It is the two thousand four film Little Black Book, starring Brittany Murphy and Ron Livingston.

• 1:03:46Speaker 04

  Haven't seen that one.

• 1:03:47Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, it's not good. And in the film, Brittany Murphy is a massive Carly Simon fan. And actually Carly Simon shows up herself in the end of the film for a cameo. That's the only other film that Let the River Run is in.

• 1:03:58Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:03:58Yasi Salek?

  Just so you know.

• 1:03:59Speaker 04

  Holly Hunter is in this?

• 1:04:00Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:01Speaker 04

  Wow, Julia Ann Nicholson, Kathy Bates, man.

• 1:04:03Yasi Salek?

  A lot of people have made choices.

• 1:04:05Speaker 04

  We, listen, sometimes you win and sometimes.

• 1:04:08Yasi Salek?

  Actors, it's just not a good movie.

• 1:04:09Speaker 04

  Okay, also, can I just read you the list of, so Little Black Book opened at number five at the North American box office? And it's opening weekend behind Collateral, The Village, The Born Supremacy, and The Manchurian Candidate remake. Honestly.

• 1:04:24Yasi Salek?

  We used to be a proper.

• 1:04:25Speaker 04

  We used to be a country, et cetera. Yeah.

• 1:04:27Yasi Salek?

  Um, also, one last place it was used.

• 1:04:29Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:04:30Yasi Salek?

  The closing credits of season thirty one, episode two of The Simpsons.

• 1:04:33Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:04:33Yasi Salek?

  Go bigger, go Homer.

• 1:04:34Speaker 04

  For sure.

• 1:04:35Yasi Salek?

  In which Homer inspires a thirty five year old millennial who idolizes him to start his own business.

• 1:04:39Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:04:39Yasi Salek?

  Which leads the mob to chase them.

• 1:04:41Speaker 04

  That is very funny. Yeah.

• 1:04:44Yasi Salek?

  I like how they were like, we have all the money in the world and what would be really funny is if we end this episode of The Simpsons with Let the River Run.

• 1:04:50Speaker 04

  Yeah. They're good at what they do at The Simpsons.

• 1:04:53Yasi Salek?

  Again, I'm not gonna, I don't, I mean, unless you have a lot to say about the instrumental songs that are on here that are not Let the River Run.

• 1:04:59Speaker 04

  But there are like parts of the, they lead into it.

• 1:05:02Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, like In Love and.

• 1:05:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:04Yasi Salek?

  The Scar and.

• 1:05:05Speaker 04

  Right. No, I mean, I I think that they did a nice job with the with the score.

• 1:05:10Yasi Salek?

  There's a song called The Man That Got Away by Rob Mooney.

• 1:05:14Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:05:14Yasi Salek?

  It's a torch song. I had to look up what that meant.

• 1:05:16Speaker 04

  Yeah. Um, it's like a song sent sent to a lover. Yeah.

• 1:05:22Yasi Salek?

  Like a song.

• 1:05:23Speaker 04

  Someone who went away.

• 1:05:24Yasi Salek?

  Um, this song was written for the nineteen fifty four version of A Star Is Born.

• 1:05:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, you, that Judy Garland sings it and that's, um, if you've never seen that scene from that, A Star Is Born. It's one of the great film performances. It's like, it's really, really amazing. You can just watch that on YouTube. I like that A Star Is Born.

• 1:05:41Yasi Salek?

  Well, they put this song on the soundtrack and I guess in the film, but I don't remember it. Probably because I wouldn't have clocked it.

• 1:05:47Speaker 04

  I mean, is it like, is she watching something, you know?

• 1:05:49Yasi Salek?

  I don't remember her ever watching anything.

• 1:05:52Speaker 04

  Well, when she's, she listens to the dictaphone while she's on the.

• 1:05:57Yasi Salek?

  Oh, yeah, maybe.

• 1:05:58Speaker 04

  But like, maybe there's something on at some point, or maybe Joan Cusack is watching something.

• 1:06:03Yasi Salek?

  Definitely not a meaningful.

• 1:06:04Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:06:05Yasi Salek?

  Part of it.

• 1:06:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:06Yasi Salek?

  You know what is a meaningful part of the film?

• 1:06:08Speaker 04

  Lady in Red.

• 1:06:11Yasi Salek?

  Lady in Red.

• 1:06:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:06:13Yasi Salek?

  Is dancing with me cheek to cheek.

• 1:06:18Speaker 04

  Just.

• 1:06:18Yasi Salek?

  What a fucking tune.

• 1:06:20Speaker 04

  Incredible.

• 1:06:21Yasi Salek?

  What a goddamn banger.

• 1:06:32Yasi Salek?

  I just wrote in my notes, let's fucking go.

• 1:06:35Speaker 04

  Yeah. So it's very funny that all of the songs that aren't Let the River Run are featured in one scene in Staten Island where it's like, you know, the the Manhattan people are too busy to be to be getting down and listening to music, but in Staten Island, they know how to party.

• 1:06:52Yasi Salek?

  And in Staten Island, it's, we're so excited and we just can't hide it. And also Lady in Red is dancing with me cheek to cheek. Um, this song is an absolute banger. It came out in eighty six. Um, I just want to point out that this song was written by Krista Berg.

• 1:07:07Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:07:07Yasi Salek?

  For his wife.

• 1:07:09Speaker 04

  That's beautiful.

• 1:07:09Yasi Salek?

  He used to come watch him perform at his parents' hotel.

• 1:07:12Speaker 04

  Okay. That's beautiful.

• 1:07:15Yasi Salek?

  I hardly know this beauty by myself.

• 1:07:19Speaker 04

  Wear you on red as a.

• 1:07:21Yasi Salek?

  I can't wear it, really. I've been trying.

• 1:07:23Speaker 04

  Sure. I mean, there are many, there are many different reds, right?

• 1:07:26Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, I'd like to be a lady in red.

• 1:07:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:07:29Yasi Salek?

  But I've not gotten there.

• 1:07:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, and you have to find the right one.

• 1:07:33Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:33Speaker 04

  And anything else can, is Nancy Reagan so fast, speaking of this era?

• 1:07:38Yasi Salek?

  Your skin tone, I think, lends itself better to red than mine does.

• 1:07:42Speaker 04

  It's certain reds.

• 1:07:44Yasi Salek?

  Okay. Like, are you more of a blue red or a corally red, orangey red?

• 1:07:48Speaker 04

  I think I'm more of an orangey red.

• 1:07:50Yasi Salek?

  I think I'm more of a blue red.

• 1:07:51Speaker 04

  Yeah, and in general, I think I'm not supposed to wear blue, but it's all I wear and.

• 1:07:56Yasi Salek?

  Why? It looks great on you.

• 1:07:57Speaker 04

  Well, I think it's like a cooler color, you know, and I'm supposed to do warm tones, I think.

• 1:08:04Yasi Salek?

  Got it.

• 1:08:05Speaker 04

  But they'll never take my beloved navy away from me, you know?

• 1:08:08Yasi Salek?

  Picture you without your navy blue.

• 1:08:09Speaker 04

  I was in Toronto when I went vintage shopping. Um, I was wearing like four different shades of blue and then obviously I bought a blue dress. And the people at the store were like, oh, I see you found your color. And I was like, yeah.

• 1:08:21Yasi Salek?

  What a testament to our friendship that I actually hate navy blue and not on other people, love it. On myself, cannot abide by it. Can I do not own one item of navy blue clothing? And whenever I have bought it and tried to put it on, I'm upset at myself and I put it away.

• 1:08:37Speaker 04

  You just gotta know your colors. And maybe it's not even, like, have you gotten your colors done?

• 1:08:42Yasi Salek?

  No.

• 1:08:43Speaker 04

  I haven't either because I don't want to be told what to do ever, but I I can sense the general picture.

• 1:08:49Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:50Speaker 04

  And still, if you love something, you can make it work for you.

• 1:08:53Yasi Salek?

  Don't let other people put you in a box.

• 1:08:55Speaker 04

  It's, it's so true.

• 1:08:56Yasi Salek?

  Nobody puts Amanda in the corner.

• 1:08:57Speaker 04

  That's really true.

• 1:08:58Yasi Salek?

  Um.

• 1:08:59Speaker 04

  Nobody puts Amanda in pink either. I did buy one pink blouse recently.

• 1:09:02Yasi Salek?

  Actually.

• 1:09:03Speaker 04

  But again, that's, you have to get the right pink.

• 1:09:05Yasi Salek?

  Yeah. I'm a little rosy cheeked for pink, but or rosacea cheeked for pink, but we're working on it.

• 1:09:10Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:09:11Yasi Salek?

  Um, I just want to point out Lady in Red, I think, was like, I have to assume, cost a lot of money. And has been in multiple movies.

• 1:09:20Speaker 04

  Okay, please name them.

• 1:09:21Yasi Salek?

  American Psycho.

• 1:09:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, that I remember.

• 1:09:24Yasi Salek?

  Um, which is very funny. For, actually, this is the only movie that I could find that it's used in like a really naturalistic, like, they're at the bar in Staten Island and it's like she's reconnecting with Alec Baldwin and there's my lady in red. It's played for comedy in every other film, because apparently it was kind of a joke, this song.

• 1:09:41Speaker 04

  I mean, I, I understand why it would be a joke if it were out of the context of Working Girl. I mean, it's a banger, but also it's just like wailing out of your, you know, radio in nineteen eighty five.

• 1:09:56Yasi Salek?

  I grew up listening, hearing this song on the radio on Coast one oh three point five, which was the station my mom favored, which was sort of easy listening. And I think it's a beautiful song and I think if people are heartless.

• 1:10:06Speaker 04

  I think it's beautiful, too. I think, you know, it probably soundtrack more wedding first dances.

• 1:10:13Yasi Salek?

  Which is weird because that lady is not wearing red. The lady is wearing white.

• 1:10:16Speaker 04

  Probably, if she's having a first dance.

• 1:10:19Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:19Speaker 04

  At a wedding, but it's sort of.

• 1:10:21Yasi Salek?

  Red is a horse color.

• 1:10:26Yasi Salek?

  Is what some people say.

• 1:10:27Speaker 04

  Um, do you think it was written with wedding first dance in mind? Like when Ed Sheeran is writing his songs? Is he writing them with wedding first dance in mind? I was thinking about this recently.

• 1:10:40Yasi Salek?

  Well, I think to bring it back.

• 1:10:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:10:43Yasi Salek?

  My guy James Blunt is.

• 1:10:45Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 1:10:45Yasi Salek?

  Because he's making.

• 1:10:47Speaker 04

  Which in some ways, I was sitting like, I just needed to reach my hand out to you for so long. See, this is my red, but this is bordering on orange.

• 1:10:56Yasi Salek?

  That's coral red.

• 1:10:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, thank you. I like it as well. Dazzle Dry Red Chili. The, if you know that what you're doing, if you know that you're writing a wedding dance song, then I'm okay with it. I think that this is not, this, there's not a lot of self-knowledge.

• 1:11:11Yasi Salek?

  I think Chris Redberg was writing about his beautiful wife. And how he first saw her as she was supporting him while he was singing at a hotel. And.

• 1:11:20Speaker 04

  Well, do you think she was a blue red or a coral red?

• 1:11:25Yasi Salek?

  It's really hard. Maybe a blue red.

• 1:11:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, it does. It has, it has blue red vibes.

• 1:11:30Yasi Salek?

  He's, he told some, an interviewer that he was reflecting upon how many men can never remember how they first, where they first saw or met their wife.

• 1:11:38Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:11:38Yasi Salek?

  And he could.

• 1:11:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:11:40Yasi Salek?

  He's a wife guy.

• 1:11:41Speaker 04

  That's, I mean, it's.

• 1:11:42Yasi Salek?

  Much like Odysseus. As portrayed in The Odyssey.

• 1:11:46Speaker 04

  This is a podcast about The Odyssey. This not being used as a joke?

• 1:11:51Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:52Speaker 04

  I mean, it's like, it's, it's being played at the Staten Island Bar as Alec Baldwin tries to just yada yada his way through cheating on the test character and propose to her impulsively in front of a large group of people. So it's not being used as like a joke joke, but it is being used to reflect a character and a situation.

• 1:12:13Yasi Salek?

  It's a little smarmy.

• 1:12:14Speaker 04

  That it, well, it doesn't. It doesn't really have a grasp on reality.

• 1:12:18Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:12:19Yasi Salek?

  You're right. It's not exactly the same as it was in Dodgeball, A True Underdog Story, or Baby Mama?

• 1:12:24Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 1:12:25Yasi Salek?

  Or Deadpool and Wolverine?

• 1:12:27Speaker 04

  I don't remember that, but I, there are a lot of red costumes in there, so that makes sense.

• 1:12:32Yasi Salek?

  It's when the dog variant of Deadpool, who is named Mary Poppins, AKA Dogpool, comes running to Deadpool in the void.

• 1:12:40Speaker 04

  I do remember this now.

• 1:12:41Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, I saw that film in theaters.

• 1:12:43Yasi Salek?

  This is very relevant to your interests, I think, because I know you love this artist. It was sampled by Daniel LaPatten.

• 1:12:49Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 1:12:50Yasi Salek?

  Twice.

• 1:12:50Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:12:51Yasi Salek?

  He, Daniel LaPatten apparently really loves this song, sampled it in his 2009 video album, Memory Vague.

• 1:12:56Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:12:57Yasi Salek?

  As the song, Nobody Here, and also in his landmark 2010 vaporwave album, Chuck Person's Eco Jams, Volume One.

• 1:13:03Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:13:04Yasi Salek?

  And Daniel LaPatten, much like us, is a lady in redhead.

• 1:13:07Speaker 04

  Well, welcome. You think he's listened this far into this podcast?

• 1:13:09Yasi Salek?

  I don't think he's ever listened to this podcast.

• 1:13:10Speaker 04

  Well, I think that he should have an Oscar for his score, uh, for Marty Supreme, so that's where I am.

• 1:13:15Yasi Salek?

  The thing about me is I can't talk to you about Marty Supreme on this podcast.

• 1:13:18Speaker 04

  What about the score?

• 1:13:19Yasi Salek?

  Nope.

• 1:13:20Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:13:22Speaker 04

  That's fine, you know?

• 1:13:23Yasi Salek?

  Legendary hater of Marty Supreme. And.

• 1:13:26Speaker 04

  Loved it. Absolute dynamite. They'll never take it from me.

• 1:13:29Yasi Salek?

  Poor Butterfly by Sonny Rollins.

• 1:13:31Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:13:32Yasi Salek?

  Don't remember when this is in the movie, but it is from the opera, Madame Butterfly.

• 1:13:36Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:13:37Yasi Salek?

  Um, and then obviously I'm so excited by the Pointer Sisters.

• 1:13:40Speaker 04

  Which they're dancing to. It's very brief.

• 1:13:41Yasi Salek?

  Yeah. This has been a million movies, just.

• 1:13:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:13:46Yasi Salek?

  Hotshots part due.

• 1:13:47Speaker 04

  What's the, what's the point in using it after Saved by the Bell?

• 1:13:51Yasi Salek?

  You're so right.

• 1:13:52Speaker 04

  I mean.

• 1:13:53Yasi Salek?

  That was the pinnacle.

• 1:13:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, if you're referencing Saved by the Bell, that's fine.

• 1:13:58Yasi Salek?

  Jesse Spano.

• 1:13:59Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 1:14:00Yasi Salek?

  In the, in the workout gear.

• 1:14:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:14:02Yasi Salek?

  Um, and I think that kind of brings us to the end of the soundtrack.

• 1:14:07Speaker 04

  The soundtrack. Yeah.

• 1:14:08Yasi Salek?

  And I think we've, I think we've covered a lot of ground.

• 1:14:13Speaker 04

  Well, so I'm trying to think of other movies and movie scores. Well, that are, that are organized around like one song in this way.

• 1:14:23Yasi Salek?

  About doing a sort of catch-all episode later like that, because it happens a lot. Um, not exactly in this way where it's like the rest of the score is reflective of a thing, but like, I think you brought up American Gigolo earlier, was it American Gigolo?

• 1:14:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:14:37Yasi Salek?

  That has like, I think, one original song, which is Call Me by Blondie, but the rest is just Georgia Moroder score.

• 1:14:43Speaker 04

  Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:14:44Yasi Salek?

  There were like, it seems like.

• 1:14:46Speaker 04

  That counts.

• 1:14:47Yasi Salek?

  It seems like the eighties is when people started to shift towards like full soundtrack albums because they were performing well or whatever. Um, The Big Chill, obviously, and was, you know. The OG Forrest Gump is how I put on similarly.

• 1:15:03Speaker 04

  Oh, very, yeah, very true. Yeah, that was for our parents. And then I had, I had the two disc, the two cassette tape Forrest Gump. Come on, get real. Um, but yeah, it's, it's, the, the movies that I could think of, the most like specific example was The Way We Were, which, you know, opens with the Barbra Streisand singing The Way We Were, and then they use that motif throughout the score, like whenever Hubble does something that is, you know.

• 1:15:33Yasi Salek?

  I feel like there's like two kinds of soundtracks that, there's, there's like ones that like the song, Dirty Dancing is a great example. The songs are really interwoven into the text.

• 1:15:46Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:15:47Yasi Salek?

  As part of the storytelling, because it is a movie that is about music because it's about dancing, right? Or then there's like movies that just have these banger ass soundtracks, but you might not even associate it with, you know, like.

• 1:16:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:16:01Yasi Salek?

  They come up sometimes. Um, and they're both great, like, or, or there's like, like Judgment Night is a good example. That movie sucks.

• 1:16:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:16:11Yasi Salek?

  Barely even remember when those songs were in it.

• 1:16:13Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:16:14Yasi Salek?

  God tier soundtrack, Enduring Forever.

• 1:16:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:16:16Yasi Salek?

  Nobody revisits that film.

• 1:16:18Speaker 04

  I was trying to remember, so the four minutes song, Madonna? I know this is much later and not in the eighties. Yeah, well, I, this came up because I said, Madonna to Juliet on Jam Session. She was like, oh, which song is that? And that's for a movie, but, but it was also used in a movie. And I didn't remember that, but at some point, movies just started buying up all the good songs.

• 1:16:44Yasi Salek?

  Get smart.

• 1:16:45Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 1:16:46Yasi Salek?

  The remake of.

• 1:16:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:16:48Yasi Salek?

  Of the TV show.

• 1:16:49Speaker 04

  Um, starring Tina Fey and Steve Carell.

• 1:16:53Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, I had to look it up.

• 1:16:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, so, you know.

• 1:16:56Yasi Salek?

  I honestly didn't see it, if we're being really honest with each other. Um.

• 1:17:00Speaker 04

  In a CNN and its film credits.

• 1:17:02Yasi Salek?

  Oh, okay. A lot of, a lot of movies in the nineties have a mix of like licensed songs and songs that were either written originally for the thing or covered originally. That was a, that was a big thing, getting covers.

• 1:17:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:17:18Yasi Salek?

  Of existing songs that were only for the movie, which was really cool.

• 1:17:21Speaker 04

  Or still sometimes happens in movies in a way that it's always, it's always the Grey's Anatomy whisper.

• 1:17:28Yasi Salek?

  Guantanamo for these people. Okay, I have music supervisors that are like, what if we take this really cool eighties and nineties song and have a choir of breathy voiced women sing it? Jail, prison for you.

• 1:17:41Speaker 04

  You will never see It Ends With Us, the Blake Lively movie that Colleen Hoover adaptation that inspired litigation.

• 1:17:49Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:50Speaker 04

  Um, and that litigation was unfortunate for many reasons, for I think all parties involved. But also because it drowns out the funniest thing that I saw in movies in 2024, I guess. And in recent memory, which is at a crucial moment, there is a breathy voice cover of Holocene. I, like, I burst out laughing, like full cackle in a, in a special fan screening that was like mostly dates. And then me just absolutely weeping. It was so funny.

• 1:18:24Yasi Salek?

  Bon Iver has a gambling problem? Because why would he agree to that?

• 1:18:27Speaker 04

  How much money are you getting for a cover? How much like from the licensing?

• 1:18:31Yasi Salek?

  I think half.

• 1:18:32Speaker 04

  Okay, but so, but so what, what's the rate these days?

• 1:18:35Yasi Salek?

  I have no idea. I think it's completely dependent.

• 1:18:38Speaker 04

  Is it like, is it like three thousand? Is it a million? Like, what is it?

• 1:18:41Yasi Salek?

  It's got to be much more than three thousand.

• 1:18:42Speaker 04

  Well, well, how much? You know, I'd like to know.

• 1:18:46Yasi Salek?

  Fifty grand, a hundred grand? I'm speculating. If you are a music supervisor who regularly purchases music like this, please let us know.

• 1:18:53Speaker 04

  So a hundred grand?

• 1:18:54Yasi Salek?

  I'm like, that's like a fully made up number.

• 1:18:56Speaker 04

  Okay. But I mean, I, I think I would probably, sure. And what's it going to harm you to have like a, a girl whisper sing Holocene in this bad movie?

• 1:19:06Yasi Salek?

  I think you're associ, then you're associated.

• 1:19:09Speaker 04

  But no one saw, no one saw it. No one cares.

• 1:19:13Yasi Salek?

  I wouldn't do it.

• 1:19:14Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:19:14Yasi Salek?

  Would you do it?

• 1:19:15Speaker 04

  I'm probably not for a hundred thousand, but like for five hundred thousand, you know?

• 1:19:20Yasi Salek?

  I'd do a lot of things for five hundred thousand.

• 1:19:21Speaker 04

  And also then in that scenario, I'm Justin Vernon, and I have like the brain power and talent to do other things.

• 1:19:28Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 1:19:28Speaker 04

  So, you know, I don't have to just be tied to Holocene. It's not my one chance.

• 1:19:33Yasi Salek?

  That should be illegal now. I think we should put a moratorium.

• 1:19:37Speaker 04

  I, I think, I think that Grey's Anatomy has, you know, gotten twenty something seasons out of it, and I agree.

• 1:19:42Yasi Salek?

  It's fine when Grey's Anatomy does it. They invented it.

• 1:19:45Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:19:46Yasi Salek?

  It works with the text.

• 1:19:47Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:19:47Yasi Salek?

  You, the rest of you need to stop.

• 1:19:49Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:19:49Yasi Salek?

  Just cut it out. That's enough.

• 1:19:52Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:19:52Yasi Salek?

  It makes me so angry.

• 1:19:54Speaker 04

  I, I, I agree.

• 1:19:56Yasi Salek?

  There's a TV show that me and my roommate just watched that does it so egregiously. It's the one.

• 1:20:01Speaker 04

  I don't watch TV, so.

• 1:20:03Yasi Salek?

  It's a good show. I, I listened to it on Chris Ryan's recommendation, host of the television.

• 1:20:08Speaker 04

  You watched it.

• 1:20:09Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:09Speaker 04

  You didn't listen to the TV show.

• 1:20:11Yasi Salek?

  Did I say I listened to it?

• 1:20:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, you did.

• 1:20:13Yasi Salek?

  You know, not to bring up my cousin again, who I love so deeply, but I need to point out Nikki, because it's so crazy that you do this and I love it because you're so weird. She listens to TV shows, like their podcasts.

• 1:20:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's what, I think that's how Netflix gets like a predominant amount.

• 1:20:27Yasi Salek?

  Like on her AirPods, walking around the house.

• 1:20:29Speaker 04

  Oh, okay.

• 1:20:30Yasi Salek?

  Love Island on her.

• 1:20:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. I think a lot of, a lot of people do that. That's like, that's, that's a positive future for us if we don't have to be in front of the camera anymore.

• 1:20:39Yasi Salek?

  You're inventing new ways to take in content.

• 1:20:42Speaker 04

  I think that's just the logical extension of, I need something to put on while I do my laundry.

• 1:20:48Yasi Salek?

  On video if no one's listening to anything.

• 1:20:51Speaker 04

  A thousand percent. But here we are with our blue light blocking glasses and our blazers.

• 1:20:57Yasi Salek?

  Well, on that note, I feel like we've really covered a lot of ground.

• 1:21:01Speaker 04

  We, but we haven't gotten the presentation of the Hailey Bieber jeans.

• 1:21:04Yasi Salek?

  Oh, my God, you guys. If you made it to the end, what a real treat we have for you.

• 1:21:08Speaker 04

  It's like, no, I'm taking those home. Oh, I have my phone. I can Venmo you right now.

• 1:21:12Yasi Salek?

  This is sort of like a jam session, Bandplain crossover moment.

• 1:21:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:21:15Yasi Salek?

  Um, you guys might be familiar, although I don't know how familiar my personal audience is, with the Hailey Jeans Gap collaboration, Hailey Bieber Gap Jeans collaboration, that sold out online, I believe in like three minutes.

• 1:21:28Speaker 04

  Very quickly.

• 1:21:29Yasi Salek?

  But I was in Overland Park, Kansas, and I was telling my cousin, I was like, you know what? I just have an inkling that your location of the Gap would still have some in stock. And we headed on over the next day and guess what they did? And I called, I texted up my mom's night out group chat.

• 1:21:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:21:45Yasi Salek?

  And I said, should I buy these Hailey Bieber jeans and does anyone want them? And bravely Amanda said, yes, I do.

• 1:21:51Speaker 04

  It seemed like a fun treat. Also, then I, then I looked online.

• 1:21:55Yasi Salek?

  Wonderful resale value.

• 1:21:56Speaker 04

  They are reselling at three times the face value of the jeans on Poshmark.

• 1:22:02Yasi Salek?

  Will I be reselling the ones I bought to buy some of my RealReal love list?

• 1:22:08Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:22:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:22:11Yasi Salek?

  It's anybody's game.

• 1:22:12Speaker 04

  Okay. We're gonna see. I wasn't sure about sizing and so if this doesn't work out. Oh, my God, this is so exciting. Wow, those are really big.

• 1:22:21Yasi Salek?

  They're the giant ones.

• 1:22:22Speaker 04

  No, no, no. I mean, yeah, the extra baggy. No, I, I mean.

• 1:22:25Yasi Salek?

  I think they might be too big for you because that's the same size I'm wearing and I think you're smaller than me.

• 1:22:29Speaker 04

  I, I mean, that's just not how life works and we don't have to do that. But, so it is no stretch denim, so that's positive.

• 1:22:35Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, but you don't need stretch. They're, they're, they.

• 1:22:38Speaker 04

  No, no, but I also just like, I'm looking for no stretch in my life. Stretch doesn't, I understand that stretch makes it easier for companies to manufacture large quantities of things and have them fit people, but like.

• 1:22:49Yasi Salek?

  Stretch is only.

• 1:22:50Speaker 04

  Don't be doing it.

• 1:22:50Yasi Salek?

  For slim jeans, which people don't wear anymore, except I do.

• 1:22:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, but also, but like, you can't, you can't be wearing stretch after you've carried a child. It's just, you know, you know, the, it's, it's not giving you what you need. So this is exciting.

• 1:23:06Yasi Salek?

  I find them.

• 1:23:06Speaker 04

  If you want to do that after you've carried a child, then more power to you and you can.

• 1:23:11Yasi Salek?

  Way to be a mother.

• 1:23:12Speaker 04

  I.

• 1:23:13Yasi Salek?

  Working girl taught us that.

• 1:23:14Speaker 04

  I support you, but I can't be wearing it. Okay.

• 1:23:18Yasi Salek?

  Stay tuned, you guys.

• 1:23:18Speaker 04

  This is hugely exciting. I don't have Yasi's Venmo, so I guess we'll do this after I record. Um.

• 1:23:24Yasi Salek?

  Can't wait to see how.

• 1:23:25Speaker 04

  This is really, really, really, really exciting.

• 1:23:26Yasi Salek?

  Jeans that I used to wear when I went to raves and that's why I got them. Yeah. The extra, extra baggy.

• 1:23:33Speaker 04

  That's just one.

• 1:23:34Yasi Salek?

  Extra baggy.

• 1:23:35Speaker 04

  This is exactly the Hailey Bieber content that everybody wanted, including Hailey Bieber and Gap. Okay, thank you so much.

• 1:23:41Yasi Salek?

  Thank, no free ads, but we just did like a 20 minute ad for Gap and Hailey Bieber. And, and if you want to send us road, we will accept it.

• 1:23:48Speaker 04

  1,000%. Never tried it. Would love to.

• 1:23:51Yasi Salek?

  Would love to. Amanda, what a wonderful time we just had.

• 1:23:55Speaker 04

  Thank you so much for letting me just run crazy over this podcast.

• 1:23:59Yasi Salek?

  I had the best time. I got this.

• 1:24:00Speaker 04

  And also, I'm sorry again that I was late. I forgot my phone. I had to go up all the stairs.

• 1:24:05Yasi Salek?

  It's so fun, babe. Feminism says that women are people.

• 1:24:08Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm. That's so true. And so does Kevin Wayne.

• 1:24:10Yasi Salek?

  Yeah. So, um, please come back next week for a new episode of Bandplain.

• 1:24:25Yasi Salek?

  If you liked what you heard today, subscribe for more episodes of Bandplain. Our guest today was Amanda Dobbins. This episode was produced by Rob Sunderman, edited by Adrian Bridges, with help from Justin Sales. Video production by Sarah Reddy. Executive producers for Bandplain, Regina Dalback and me, Yasi Salek. Our gorgeous and catchy theme song was composed and performed by Bethany Cosentino and Jennifer Clavon, and graciously recorded by Carlos de la Garza in Los Angeles, California. Special thanks to our producer emeritus, producer Dylan, AKA Dylan Tupper Rupert, and also Sean Fantasy and my cousin Nicole Di Berencelli and her gorgeous little son, Leo, and also the city of Overland Park, Kansas, and the Solid Core in Leawood, Kansas. Come back every Thursday for a new episode of Bandplain on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.

• 1:25:12Speaker 04

  Hello.

• 1:25:13Yasi Salek?

  What if I scream?

• 1:25:14Speaker 04

  Let the river run.

• 1:25:17Yasi Salek?

  What about when I sing, Let the River Run?

• 1:25:18Speaker 04

  Let everyone. I mean, I will do that at some point on the podcast, so.

• 1:25:25Speaker 05

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• 1:25:50Speaker 01

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