Bandsplain’s *Favourite* Albums of 2024

Normally, on this podcast, we tend to focus on music that was released decades in the past. In this episode, we’re going to do a rare thing and focus on music of the present day. Listen along as Yasi chats with The Ringer’s Rob Harvilla and Justin Sayles about their five *favourite* albums and top single of the year. EPISODE PLAYLIST: Listen to songs we detail in the episode ⁠HERE⁠ **NOTE: Cindy Lee’s Diamond Jubilee is not available on Spotify. You can listen here on Bandcamp.** CREDITS: Host: Yasi Salek @yasisalek Guests: Rob Harvilla @robharvilla and Justin Sayles Producer: Liz Sánchez Audio Editor: Adrian Bridges Additional Production Supervision: Justin Sayles Theme Song: Bethany Cosentino Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Look, it's not that confusing. I'm Rob Harvilla, host of the podcast 60 Songs That Explain the 90s, except we did 120 songs. And now we're back with the 2000s. I refuse to say aughts, 2000 to 2009. The Strokes, Rihanna, J Lo, Kanye, sure. And now the show is called 60 Songs That Explain the 90s: The 2000s. Wow, that's too long a title for me to say anything else right now. Just trust me. That's 60 Songs That Explain the 90s: The 2000s, preferably on Spotify.

• 0:37Speaker 01

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• 1:06Yasi Salek?

  Hey guys, happy holidays. Belated and future, it's Yossi. I just wanted to hop on before we get into the episode to let you know that there will be no new episode of Bandsplain next Thursday, January 2nd. I know, I'm really sorry, honestly. But you know what? Rifle through the back catalog, babe. I'm sure there's at least one of those like four or five hour long pods that you could benefit from re-listening. You didn't catch everything. And then come back for the next episode of Bandsplain on January 9th. Okay, here's the episode.

• 2:11Yasi Salek?

  Hello and welcome to Band Splain. I am your host, Yasi Salek. This is usually a show where I invite an expert guest on to help me explain a cult band or iconic artist. But today, you guys were doing something a little different to close out the year. We are moving from the past into the present. We are living in the now at Cartel. Today, this is a show where I've invited on two icons to talk about our favorite albums of the year. You guys, joining me today, my guests are the one and only Robert Harvilla of 60 Songs That Explain the 90s Cool and the 2000s and the infamous producer, Justin Sales.

• 2:53Speaker 00

  Has this ever happened? Have we ever, the three of us, been on a podcast together before?

• 2:59Yasi Salek?

  I don't think so.

• 3:01Speaker 03

  We've expensed dinners. That's about it.

• 3:04Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 3:06Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 3:07Speaker 03

  Yasi, thank you for having me.

• 3:09Yasi Salek?

  You're welcome.

• 3:10Speaker 03

  I'm worried that some people are gonna be like, why is he not Chris Ryan and I can't be, but I can do my best to only be me?

• 3:17Yasi Salek?

  Honey, all of us, babe. Every day, every podcaster on earth, everyone's first thought is, why is this not Chris Ryan? People boot up Call Her Daddy and they're like, first thought, I wish this was Chris Ryan. And then they're just settling. So don't feel bad about that.

• 3:31Speaker 00

  Welcome to the Hawk to a Podcast starring Chris Ryan.

• 3:34Yasi Salek?

  Starring Chris Ryan, his wife, Hawk to a Ryan.

• 3:37Speaker 03

  I am, I am all in on Chris Ryan meme coin. Yasi, what's my cue? What do you think my cue rating is among the audience?

• 3:46Yasi Salek?

  I don't know what that means.

• 3:48Speaker 03

  Well, what is my approval rating?

• 3:49Speaker 00

  Do people like him?

• 3:50Speaker 03

  What kind of, yeah, what kind of vipers den am I walking into?

• 3:54Yasi Salek?

  I didn't think much about it until that Instagram comment came in that was like, I hope you had a nice holiday rest away from producer Justin Sales. And I was like, oh.

• 4:07Speaker 00

  Okay, so that was me. That was my burner account. I do wanna, I do wanna live with you there. I wanna confess that. I was just feeling a little salty for some reason. I, yeah, I mean, people yell at Justin for not letting me cook, even though manifestly he allows me to. He probably overindulges my cooking.

• 4:27Yasi Salek?

  Honey, you're Bobby Flay, babe. You're cooking. No one's stopping you from cooking. I, do you think, you know, Justin?

• 4:33Speaker 00

  That's my argument, yes.

• 4:34Yasi Salek?

  Justin is so important. I mean, yes, did, did I send you that comment directly and I laughed for an hour? And then I thought that you should look in the mirror and reflect on the things that you've said and done in your life? Yes, but I also feel, and Rob, I don't wanna speak for you, but let me know if you feel similarly. I feel that we cannot exist without a Justin Sales to, he's like the straight man to our nonsense.

• 4:59Speaker 00

  It's true. It's true. We need something to push back against, yeah.

• 5:03Yasi Salek?

  Exactly. Someone's gotta hold down the fort.

• 5:05Speaker 00

  He's the man, is what you're saying, in essence.

• 5:09Yasi Salek?

  Someone's gotta receive my 6 a.m. phone calls when I'm having like a meltdown about how we're on our eighth recording of the Happy Mondays Stone Roses episode and that I don't know if I can do this anymore. Someone's gotta pick up that phone call, and unfortunately, it's Justin Sales.

• 5:26Speaker 03

  I foster a healthy work relationship with both of you, so I'm, I'm just happy that I'm here and, you know, I'll, I'll take it.

• 5:37Yasi Salek?

  I do think it's hilarious that we're doing this because we are not known for our fluency and opinions on the contemporary musical landscape. I don't think that's what people turn to us for. Although, Rob, if I'm, if I'm, you know, I don't wanna overlook your past as a storied and, and beloved music writer. Actually, maybe are you currently also a storied and beloved music writer?

• 6:06Speaker 00

  Uh, far less storied and beloved, uh, these days, obviously, but yeah, I, I, I am, I am living far more in the past than in the present now, and that has been true for the last three to five. Every once in a while, yes, there's some muscle memory of like keeping up, you know, with Pitchfork's best new musics, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, right? Like, you know, I, I was nominally in charge of the Village Voice Paz and Jop Critics Poll for four or five years there in the late 2000s during the great decline, you know, of the Village Voice and music journalism overall. I sort of oversaw that decline. I'm very proud of that, but I, yeah, I have, I have, you know, the remnants of list-making

• 6:49Speaker 00

  brain, even though I no longer devote nearly as much time and psychic energy to actually making those lists. I still have a vague feeling of what it feels like. By default, but yes, that's true. That's true. Yes.

• 7:05Yasi Salek?

  Rob, did you enjoy this exercise of coming up with five of your top albums of the year and then ranking them in an order as we are wont to do here at theringer.com? And then also coming up with one song that is your favorite of the year?

• 7:23Speaker 00

  I did enjoy this exercise in, to the extent that like, this is what rock critics do, right? Like, again, like, just from my 20 years of doing this job, you know, this is how rock critics think, whether they want to admit it or not. There's a ranking list, you know, I just, I love a good Excel document, right? I, I found this a little more stressful than in previous years, you know, I am forever more mired in the past, you know, and a little less, having a little more trouble wrapping my head around the present. Like, I, I think it is actually interesting that this is like three people who listen to a ton of music, you know, who, who live this shit, but still, it's active work to

• 8:04Speaker 00

  keep up with new music now, if you are not a young person. And I, I do think that it's, it's interesting how, you know, a 40-something person tackles that challenge. Of trying to stay current, you know, trying to understand what the kids are into, what the critics are into, whatever, you know, like I, it bothers me that I'm not more on top of it than I want to be, or that I was 10, 15 years ago. But I'm trying to enjoy my position, you know, as outside of, you know, the zeitgeist, but still trying to figure out what's happening inside it. I'm trying to embrace, you know, what I, the known unknowns. Did you enjoy this, Yasi? Do you enjoy?

• 8:49Yasi Salek?

  Um, no.

• 8:50Speaker 00

  The masculine art of list making and ranking. Are you coming around to it?

• 8:55Yasi Salek?

  You know, yes and no. It's always good to apply some critical thinking to anything in life. But I, I don't like to exclude.

• 9:08Yasi Salek?

  And I felt a lot of pressure because first of all, this is not, I'm not a music critic. So this isn't like the best, like I don't care about what's the best. These are my bests. The things that resonated the most with me, which is not the same as what the objective best, I don't know what that would look like or mean. I'm sure there's plenty of places you can turn to for that sort of coverage. I didn't mind the part where I had to gather the options. It was the ranking that stressed me out.

• 9:35Speaker 00

  Hmm. You felt bad for your number five versus your number one. You felt like you were personally affronting them by ranking.

• 9:44Yasi Salek?

  Feel that way. They're not, they're not organized that way in my brain, but whatever. That's boring. Who cares? Who cares? Justin, on your outline that you made, you had a, you had a section that says banter. So I do feel, have we?

• 10:01Speaker 00

  I can't, I can't tell if this is for air or not.

• 10:04Yasi Salek?

  We didn't talk about.

• 10:07Yasi Salek?

  No, this will be included, that you made a doc that has a section that says banter will absolutely be included in this podcast.

• 10:13Speaker 03

  Whoa, I had a doc that said banter and now we're, we skipped the banter. So we go back.

• 10:19Yasi Salek?

  We're not skipping it, that's what I'm saying. We haven't, I feel like we haven't hit all the banter, so.

• 10:24Speaker 00

  Banter topic number one. Let's actually look this up. Let's, let's, let's, let's take this seriously.

• 10:29Yasi Salek?

  Okay, yeah, Rob, I like this.

• 10:31Speaker 00

  The first bullet point is the year in music.

• 10:33Yasi Salek?

  That's pretty broad. What, what should we banter about?

• 10:37Speaker 00

  How, how was the year in rock music is a bullet point here. Guitar rock, was there, I'm gonna change that, was there guitar rock music?

• 10:50Yasi Salek?

  We're really showing how the sausage was made.

• 10:53Speaker 00

  I guess we are, yes.

• 10:55Yasi Salek?

  There was guitar rock music as evidenced by my list, I think. Cause I think a good deal of my list deals in guitar rock music. I mean, are we so back? I'm not sure if that's true.

• 11:08Speaker 00

  I don't think so.

• 11:09Yasi Salek?

  In terms of guitar rock music, but there's definitely a ton of high points, in my opinion.

• 11:15Speaker 00

  Okay. All right, speaking broadly, there are two main things that happened musically this year, in my opinion. And the first one is Kendrick versus Drake and everything that came and continues to come out of that. And the second is Brat Summer, you know, and the concurrent, you know, rise of Chapel Rohn, Sabrina Carpenter, you know, the Eras Tour ending, just this feeling of, of a rejuvenation of pop.

• 11:40Yasi Salek?

  TTPD, don't forget.

• 11:41Speaker 00

  Oh, thank, that's right.

• 11:42Yasi Salek?

  The Tortured Poets Department. That was this year, right?

• 11:45Speaker 00

  That was, it feels like it was 10 years ago, but it was indeed this year. I haven't gone back to that one in a while. But those seem to be the two main, you know, poles around which everything else revolved, at least mainstream, you know, pop music, zeitgeist, you know, cultural phenomenon.

• 12:04Yasi Salek?

  That was pretty good. You know, he, Rob really, Rob really took your banter bullet points and ran with it.

• 12:12Speaker 00

  I'm trying to make this, this outline come to life. I'm trying to create podcast magic out of a Google Doc and it's, I'm, I'm, I'm doing the best I can.

• 12:23Yasi Salek?

  Justin, do you have thoughts about either the year in music? Or?

• 12:29Yasi Salek?

  The pop girlies.

• 12:32Speaker 03

  I think that this year was interesting from, and from a pop music perspective, because, and this is something that Rob was saying a little bit earlier.

• 12:40Yasi Salek?

  On the non-recorded.

• 12:41Speaker 03

  On the, on the non-recording. Do people know what we're talking about when we say that? We had the first recording where you, your SD card was full, and I can't imagine why with the length of these episodes.

• 12:56Speaker 03

  So we had to stop and start again, but Rob made this point in the earlier episode that what was interesting about this year was we got a whole bunch of new pop stars, it feels like, right? Cause it, to me, it kind of felt like the people who were famous in 2019 were just kind of famous for the past five years, right? Like your Beyonce, your Taylor Swift, your Drake, your Billie Eilish, Olivia Rodrigo comes up a little bit later, but like, we hadn't made a lot of new pop stars in a while. And then all of a sudden, we get Chaparral, we get Sabrina Carpenter, we get Charli XCX finally becoming like an honest to God pop star, right?

• 13:40Speaker 03

  Like an actual, after years of every publication on earth being like, Charli XCX is ready to be a pop star now. We finally get her becoming an honest to God pop star, to the point where she may have like boosted and then been the signifier for everything that went wrong with the presidential campaign. Like, that's kind of actually crazy. But, yeah, I mean, I personally had a brat summer, as much as a man my age can have a brat summer.

• 14:08Yasi Salek?

  A sober vegan man your age.

• 14:11Speaker 03

  How does a brat summer manifest? Born in the early eighties, it involves my girlfriend listening to a lot of brat.

• 14:19Yasi Salek?

  Your, your younger girlfriend listening to a lot of brat. Yeah, that's, there's a different word for that kind of summer, but we'll, we'll let you call it a brat summer.

• 14:28Speaker 03

  Rob, how was your brat summer?

• 14:31Speaker 00

  How was my brat summer? You know, I, my wife most often does not pay attention to pop music, but how I could tell that this stuff was permeating to a greater degree is that she suddenly, you know, really gets into Chapel Rohn's Good Luck Babe, you know, she really gets into Sabrina Carpenter, like, we're gonna, we gotta watch that Christmas special, Sabrina Carpenter. I was like, that's been on the queue forever. She's really, right now, into that song, Rosé, the Rosé Bruno Mars apeté song, like, that's a big hit in my many van right now. Hot to Go is a big hit with my four-year-old right now. You know, it's just, as a rock critic, for as long as I've been, like, I've, you're told

• 15:14Speaker 00

  that a phenomenon is happening, and sometimes it's happening in real life, and sometimes it really isn't. But I do feel like brat summer and just the surrounding, you know, revitalization, you know, this new breed of pop stars did seem to permeate to a level beyond, you know, rock critics talking themselves into things happening on podcasts, right? Like, this, this seems like it was permeating and getting through to normal people, for lack of any other way of putting it.

• 15:42Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, totally. I think it's like, just, just like a clarification. I do feel like, besides maybe Chapel, I think, like, what happened more was like, these pop stars graduated into the big leagues, like, Sabrina Carpenter's been around for a long time as well, you know, this is like her, like, sixth album or something. We need to fact check that.

• 16:02Speaker 00

  Still the best new artist.

• 16:03Yasi Salek?

  Several albums in.

• 16:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:06Yasi Salek?

  And I think, I think it was awesome. Like, I think there was like a lack of options for, you know, young people who love pop music, especially girls, and it was cool to all of a sudden to have all these varying flavors of-

• 16:26Yasi Salek?

  Pop star to look up to or to emulate or not in the now sense deleted recordings and the Dead Sea Scrolls of this podcast. I did say that I love Chapel because while we both said, Rob, that we love Casual that came out last year because that was such like an incredible sort of entree song, but also like I just love her presence as a pop star. I think we haven't had a pop star like this. I know it's kind of hyperbolic, but I stand by it. I kind of compare her like Sinead O'Connor. Like she really is like a disruptor.

• 16:59Speaker 00

  Interrogating pop stardom as she experiences it. Yeah, like there's Fiona Apple there too. I totally know what you mean.

• 17:06Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, without any veneer over it, without any media training, without any hiding or crafting of a narrative. Like it's so visceral and so interesting and to me like kind of inspiring. Like I always lament because I'm a hundred that, you know, I had Courtney Love and the girls have Taylor Swift. And there's nothing wrong with Taylor Swift. You know, she's an incredibly talented and a wonderful, you know, artist, but like to not see any messiness or like rough edges on a pop star your whole life as a young woman is probably pretty challenging in ways that they don't understand. But like then you get to see Chapel, you know, and you're like, oh yeah, it's okay that sometimes I'm

• 17:50Yasi Salek?

  kind of messy too. And I, so I love it. I hope she never changes. I hope, you know, long live Chapel. And also she's got so much talent to back it up. So it's really the complete package.

• 18:00Speaker 03

  And it really felt organic too, because she was just a-

• 18:03Yasi Salek?

  I feel like it clearly is.

• 18:05Speaker 03

  My girlfriend a couple of years ago went to a show that she was doing in a park in LA. And this is, we're seriously talking like two years ago. And there were like 10 people there. And she was performing some of the same songs. And she posted a TikTok this year, my girlfriend, about of this performance that ended up blowing up because like, you know-

• 18:28Speaker 00

  That was her? I was gonna say, there's a viral video of her. Okay, that's, I did not know that was her. Shout out Nicole. All right.

• 18:35Speaker 03

  That was her. Yeah.

• 18:36Speaker 00

  Okay. But it's Pink Pony Club, right? Like Pink Pony Club in front of 10 people and then in front of a giant crowd on SNL. Like yes, this does, it really does feel like a pop star for the people.

• 18:50Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, I love it. And Charli, you know, I love Charli. I've loved Charli for a long time. I interviewed Charli in 2012 at South by Southwest when she was on her first, I think it was an EP, honestly. And she was this like, fresh-faced, cool 20-year-old who was so talented already, making kind of like goth pop. I thought she was so cool. And I've thought she was so cool this whole time. Like, I've followed everything she's done. I love her music. Brat is not my favorite Charli XCX album, but, just for you guys wondering, it's the first one that came out during the pandemic, How I'm Feeling Now. I love that album.

• 19:26Yasi Salek?

  She has so many good albums. But Brat is like a masterclass in four-dimensional pop stardom. Like, in a, in term, the rollout is like nothing I've ever seen before, and it was perfect. Like, she hit every beat. Everything was exciting. Everything was cool. Every video was like a new thing, cooler than the last. Like, every moment was like, special and thought about. And like, she just fucking killed it. She knocked it out of the fucking park. And, you know, the haters who are like, "Oh, I'm sick of it." And it's like, yeah, you're sick of it because it became ubiquitous because it was so fucking cool. And I, I think that's so impressive.

• 20:11Yasi Salek?

  And I think a lot of the accolades are probably for the entirety of the Brat-ness and not just the album. And deserved, you know?

• 20:20Speaker 03

  Yasi, why weren't you at the it-girl table in the 360 video?

• 20:24Yasi Salek?

  It's such a good question. I like to, I like to it-girl under the radar. I was at Charli's birthday party, thanks for asking. It was fun. I was the third, third-oldest person there. I don't know how old Glenn Powell is, but, you know, it's like me, Glenn Powell, and some other...

• 20:41Speaker 03

  I often call Yasi Salek your it-girl's favorite it-girl.

• 20:45Yasi Salek?

  That's right.

• 20:46Speaker 00

  That's right, yeah.

• 20:46Yasi Salek?

  So, yeah, and then, you know, I, I like Sabrina as well. It's, it's not the music that I put on all the time, but I just like her, like, little presents. And That's That Me Espresso gave me That's That Me Depresso, which I say to myself all the time.

• 21:09Speaker 00

  I was gonna say, you've never said that to me, and that's, that's a good line.

• 21:12Yasi Salek?

  Depresso.

• 21:12Speaker 00

  That's legit.

• 21:13Speaker 03

  All the time.

• 21:14Speaker 00

  Merch.

• 21:15Speaker 03

  All the time to me.

• 21:15Speaker 00

  Okay, alright. See, this, this illustrates the difference in our working relationships with Yasi, me and Justin.

• 21:21Yasi Salek?

  I don't come to you, Rob, with my problems and my depresso. That, that gets, that's the honor of Justin Sales receiving 6 a.m. phone calls where I'm having a complete and under a Ben TB about one thing or the other.

• 21:35Speaker 00

  Yes, okay.

• 21:36Speaker 03

  The other big thing that happened this year that Rob mentioned, though, was the men working out their feelings on records with Drake and Kendrick.

• 21:45Yasi Salek?

  They worked it out on the remix.

• 21:47Speaker 03

  I don't know about that.

• 21:48Speaker 00

  Did they?

• 21:48Speaker 03

  That's a couple of years away. That's a couple of years away. But, um, Yasi, I know that you paid attention to this beef. We were just waiting for every song to drop. You were, you were held captive.

• 21:58Yasi Salek?

  I don't know.

• 21:59Speaker 03

  You, I, I just, you've been covering Blur and Oasis this season, and I think what's most relevant to your audience is, is Kendrick more of a Noel or a Liam?

• 22:11Speaker 00

  Ooh.

• 22:12Yasi Salek?

  I like literally don't know what you're talking about. Like, I couldn't, do you know what I mean? I like did not pay any attention to this.

• 22:20Speaker 00

  Man, that's a tough one.

• 22:22Yasi Salek?

  I don't think Kendrick Lamar is either a Noel or a Liam.

• 22:27Speaker 00

  I'm trying to figure out who Drake is, like.

• 22:30Yasi Salek?

  Drake is kind of a Liam.

• 22:31Speaker 00

  Drake is kind of a Liam.

• 22:34Yasi Salek?

  But like, not, because I'm gonna say something. Liam is never embarrassing, and I believe Drake has entered his embarrassing era. Drake again is not something I've ever been too interested in. I really liked the Take Care album, and then after that, I'd never listened again. And I know he was like one of the biggest.

• 22:50Speaker 00

  Quite a while ago, yeah.

• 22:51Yasi Salek?

  I, I understand. Yeah, it was 2012, 11.

• 22:55Speaker 03

  That was like four or five butt lifts ago.

• 22:58Yasi Salek?

  Listen, I apologize. It's not for me. It's not my, it's not my wheelhouse. And I wish, I wish them the best of luck with their ongoing endeavors to humiliate each other.

• 23:10Speaker 03

  I'm reading through some producer Liz's notes right now, and I believe what she's saying is that Kendrick is more of a Noel and that Drake is more of a, more of a demon.

• 23:19Yasi Salek?

  She's saying, don't talk about this topic. You sound stupid and old.

• 23:24Speaker 03

  She, no, she, she's also informing us that Take Care came out when she was in high school.

• 23:29Speaker 00

  Okay, that's upsetting.

• 23:30Speaker 03

  So, so that's probably time to, time to, that's the wrap it up bitch of, of banter.

• 23:41Speaker 04

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• 24:12Yasi Salek?

  So should we get into the, the, the bread and butter, the meat and potatoes of this podcast? What everyone's been waiting for, our top five albums? And you're, you're, you've graciously volunteered to drive.

• 24:29Speaker 03

  That's, that's one way of framing what happened here. Okay. So, yes, um, is this episode my fault, by the way? Did I say we should do it? Okay. I just wanted to be clear.

• 24:40Speaker 00

  That's what she has repeatedly implied. Yes.

• 24:42Speaker 03

  Okay. She's implying, I just wanted to get it all out there.

• 24:45Yasi Salek?

  For those of you at home, keeping track of who's being abused, I did want to take this week off and producer Justin Sale said, no, you must rank your top albums of the year with me and Rob Barvilla.

• 24:56Speaker 03

  Look, if you want to work for the Ringer, you have to rank something at some point, okay?

• 25:01Yasi Salek?

  You gotta rank, babe. You wanna ring, you gotta rank. You wanna ring, you gotta rank.

• 25:05Speaker 03

  The Ranker.com. I'm sure that's actually a website. Yeah, I mean, really simple. We should just run through our top five albums of the year and then maybe at the backend, we can hit a song or two that we liked. And I think that would be a lot of fun for us and the audience. And, and I think with all this enthusiasm I'm feeling, and Yasi, since it's your show, how about you kick us off with what's your-

• 25:28Yasi Salek?

  You want me to start with my number five?

• 25:30Speaker 03

  With your number five.

• 25:32Yasi Salek?

  Okay, great. So you guys, my number five is actually a great story. 11th hour, okay, I'm making these lists. I make the mistake, or the beautiful choice, of hitting up our beloved Christopher Ryan to, just out of curiosity, I was like, does Chris Ryan do rankings? Just in his little, in his, in his little free time in his brain, you know, he's a TV man and a film man. And he said he does keep a list of 50 songs, much like yourself. And then we sort of just got to chatting about music, and then he dropped on me an artist I had not heard of, and he was like, have you heard this guy's album?

• 26:15Yasi Salek?

  And it had come out December 6th, and I was like, no. And then I went and listened, and within like four songs, I was like, oh, this is really fucking good.

• 26:23Speaker 03

  Gotta rip up your list?

• 26:25Yasi Salek?

  I had to rip up my list, had to rip up my list, start over. I listened to it like four times all the way through in that evening. And I don't know if it's recency bias, or it's just that good, but my number five is Heavy Metal by a guy called Cameron Winter, Partisan Records.

• 26:53Speaker 03

  It's an interesting record, and I also had a quick conversation with, with Chris Ryan about this. What is it about this record for you?

• 27:01Yasi Salek?

  Okay, I think what it is, is, well, yeah, it's very bizarre. CR described it perfectly, and I don't want to take credit for what he said. He basically said it's like if Smog made a Harry Nielsen record, which I think is pretty accurate. But also, but also there's like other layers to it. A thing I realized in my elderly age that really resonates for me with music that makes me like connect super hard to it is like a feeling of the sacred, like a spiritual feeling that I get from the music. And there's a lot of horns and, and organ and backing vocals that give it sort of like a...

• 27:43Yasi Salek?

  Hymnal energy and the vocals are very strange, right? Justin, would you describe them as sort of strange?

• 27:51Speaker 03

  I wanted to talk about the voice, so yes.

• 27:54Yasi Salek?

  It's something new, but so vulnerable and like raw and like emotionally evocative. The vocals, it really does a lot for me.

• 28:02Speaker 03

  It was funny because when I, when CR mentioned that to me, I put it on quick. And as I was skimming it, I'm like, I don't know if I can do this voice. And then in a quick skim, I was just like, hmm, this is a lot.

• 28:15Yasi Salek?

  Polarizing.

• 28:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, this feels like a little bit like the first time somebody's like, you need to hear fiery furnaces or something like from 2004. Not that I think it's musically the similar, but just like all of these noises coming at me. I'm like, I'm, I don't know if I can do this right the second. And then later that night, when I was in a more quiet, more calm space and I could listen to the full record, I put it on and I found myself very taken with his voice. I found him very immersive and I think like in short, I don't know what people are going to think when they hear the clip that we just played off this, but it was a lot more gripping and compelling.

• 28:56Speaker 03

  And yes, emotional, spiritual almost, when you hear it in the full context of the record.

• 29:02Yasi Salek?

  Especially like the sequencing is really amazing. And then when you get to like, to me, sort of like the high point of the album, which I think was the single, but as the second to last track on the album, Zero Dollars.

• 29:13Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 29:14Yasi Salek?

  It's, it's a piano song, right? And it like, I'm sorry to say it, but you know how River by Joni Mitchell is a Christmas song? This is also a Christmas song. How River by Joni Mitchell is a Christmas song? Can't explain it. And then you get to the, I mean, all of the lyrics, I don't want to like bore us with quoting. The lyrics are just as weird as the vocals. Like they're so, it's giving a little pavementy where it's like, you know, left of center, like out of left field, but the outro of the Zero Dollars is just Cameron Winter singing, "God is real, God is real. I'm not kidding. God is actually real. I'm not kidding this time. I think God is actually for real."

• 30:06Speaker 00

  It's like Neutral Milk Hotel.

• 30:08Yasi Salek?

  Yes, honestly, yes.

• 30:10Speaker 03

  That's a good comparison.

• 30:11Yasi Salek?

  It's a good comparison. It doesn't sound like it musically at all. It doesn't have the like, it doesn't, you know how Neutral Milk Hotel has this like sort of like frenetic, like propulsive energy to most of the songs?

• 30:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 30:21Yasi Salek?

  This is, this is not that. This is much more measured, but it is, it's spiritual. I just, I really loved it. I loved it so much that it like knocked out a place in my top five. And I do keep returning to it. And it's a very wintry album. Shout out Kami Winter, who is, I believe 22 years old, which is a front to me personally.

• 30:43Speaker 00

  That's crazy.

• 30:43Yasi Salek?

  Good for him. Yep. My number five is Cameron Winter's Heavy Metal.

• 30:47Speaker 03

  Okay. Rob, moving on to you.

• 30:51Speaker 00

  All right. My number five is a record called The Thief Next to Jesus by the Brooklyn rapper Ka, uh, who very shockingly tragically passed away in October, I believe. I almost feel bad about this. I can't find the tweet again, but like somebody, some publication like Pigeons and Planes like put this record on their best of list and someone quote tweeted it with lyrics from a Ka song that were like, I won't be appreciated till I'm gone. Like, and it's like Ka understood that like, we won't fully celebrate him until he's gone. And so I'm conscious of the fact that, you know, I'm, I've listened to a lot of him. He's got, he's been making records at a really steady clip for at least 10 years

• 31:36Speaker 00

  or so. Uh, but I'm sort of catching up to sort of a deep dive into him. And it is inspired, you know, by, by losing him, you know, and I'm conscious of that. But this is a really, he makes such startling records. Like they're so quiet. They're so frigid. Like I, it's a very rock critic-y word, but I like the idea of monastic. Like there's something so spiritual and so intense and so austere about him, you know? And this, this record, you know, I think This record is sort of filling in for like his whole catalog. Like I think he's been incredibly consistent.

• 32:16Speaker 00

  And I think once you fall down this rabbit hole, you get super into him. Like this record is is very clearly about sort of organized religion and like the limits of organized religion and the racism, you know, of Christianity. And it's just, it's, his records are so deep and so dense and so, so forbidding on one level. You know, like it feels, it feels cold, like you shiver when you listen to him. But there is likewise just this sort of inviting, you know, very deep spiritual, you know, almost comforting experience that you have just locking into this guy's voice. You know, to the exclusion of almost anything else, including whatever is musically happening around him. Like,

• 32:58Speaker 00

  Justin, you know a lot more about this than I do, but like Rock Marciano is another artist like this, right? Where, you know, it's, there's the lineage of New York street rap, you know, but he's like an artist and there's an austerity and then intensity. And it's like, he just does what he does to the exclusion of everything else. Like there are other people kind of like this, making music now, but I just, I don't know if there's a single artist catalog that is more fascinating to me rap wise right now than his. And this record is, is part of that.

• 33:39Speaker 03

  Like Rock Marciano, he also got his start in like the New York underground scene in the 90s. And then in the early 2010s, kind of found a new life in this almost like post boom bap kind of thing. That's like the most cursed like white critic phrase that you can use to post boom bap. But like this whole, this whole like drumless, like.

• 34:08Speaker 03

  Soul sample based New York Renaissance, right? And like Rock Marciano was kind of like the standard bearer for that. And he was like the first one. And when you go back and look at those records from around 2012, and then there's like the Action Bronson records, which are a whole, a whole different way of approaching that because he's very maximalist. But the car records were always, there was always like this world weariness to them, like this wise sageness to him. And you hit on the idea that these are very cold records. I actually don't know if I've ever listened to a piece of his music when it's not the winter. I think every single time I've ever listened to any music of his has been the winter. And that goes for this year as well, when, um, you know, this album came out in October.

• 34:52Speaker 03

  Of course, I live in Los Angeles, so winters are relative now.

• 34:54Speaker 00

  I was about to say, you don't have winter where you are now, but okay, spiritually, maybe.

• 35:00Speaker 03

  Forty-eight degrees the other night. It was forty-eight degrees the other night, Rob.

• 35:03Speaker 00

  I feel terrible for you.

• 35:04Yasi Salek?

  I had the heat on.

• 35:06Speaker 03

  But this is, this is a great record. It's, it's obviously a massive tremendous loss. This record is fascinating because it does grapple not just with organized religion, but like it, the way it exploits the people who turn to it.

• 35:20Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 35:21Speaker 03

  And in a, like, there aren't many artists who can pull that off in a compelling way. And he could because he spoke from such a position of this wise sageness, right? Like this, or the sage wiseness, whatever, whatever order I want to put those words in. But like, it's a tremendous record and it's, it's incredibly, it's just a tremendous loss that he was gone. I mean, it's a great choice. If you hadn't put it on your list, I might've put it on mine. I'm glad that we got a chance to talk about it for a second.

• 35:51Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 35:52Yasi Salek?

  Rob, how much of your like personal musical input, like by personal, I mean not for work, is rap music?

• 36:01Speaker 00

  I think way less than Justin's, for example. I mean, I do think I'm always gonna have an alternative rock bass at my core and I'm always gonna gravitate. I'm at the point now where I'm almost suspicious of something that I'm too interested in. Like, I'm sure he'll come up, like MJ Lenderman falls into this category of like, I feel like I'm being pandered to almost like this is too much my shit and I have an instinct to turn away from it. And so I do think some of the music, you know, that I gravitated toward this year is, you know, when I'm not mired in nostalgia for what I was like as an all rocking teenager and young adults, you know, I want to do something that I don't know as well. I want

• 36:45Speaker 00

  to be a little less moored in my personal history. And so I, I try and heavy scare quotes like keep up with rap music, but I think I find it bewildering because I'm supposed to. I'm a 46 year old white guy living in the suburbs. Like if I was too on top of this shit, it would be suspicious, I think.

• 37:06Yasi Salek?

  Agreed. That's a good instinct.

• 37:09Speaker 03

  Yasi, did you consume much rap music this year?

• 37:11Yasi Salek?

  Not really. I mean, not outside of like my normal tastes of The Diplomats and Too Short, you know? So nothing, nothing new, if that's what you mean.

• 37:23Speaker 03

  Okay. I'm gonna take my number five and number four together. My number five record is by a band named Gaujway and it is called Deep Sage, to use that word again. And my number four record is by a band named Cold God, more specifically, it's the project of one person. And that is I'll drown on this earth, very cheerful stuff. And I'm taking these together because I think they're, I don't know if they're necessarily spiritually aligned, but they do have like these shoegazy aesthetics at times. I mean, Cold God is quite

• 38:03Speaker 03

  literally a shoegaze album where the Gaujway album is a hardcore album that at times goes, turns to like these really beautiful moments of shoegaze. I'm kind of just grouping these together, like one for expediency sakes, so we don't end up with a three hour best of episode, but also because like they're, they're kind of-

• 38:22Yasi Salek?

  Clipping our wings.

• 38:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I'm just, I'm doing our best. We'll see what happens. We'll see what, we'll see what we could do in post. But, you know, there is some- Some similarities in terms of just like the shoegaze element, but also I think these are just kind of two maybe less acclaimed rock records that I think deserve acclaim that I want to just call attention to as well. I particularly like on the Gaujway album and Gaujway, of course, a band named after the famous Pixie song. So they're, they sound kind of like what you'd expect, which is a hardcore band influenced by the Pixies at times. There's a song named Dallas on there. That's kind of this mid-tempo song that's very shoegazy at parts. That is like one of my favorite songs of the year.

• 39:16Speaker 03

  And then the Cold God record. It starts out with this really heavy, beautiful shoegaze in a song named Gorgeous.

• 39:35Speaker 03

  And then by the back half, like you get these like really great slow jams that almost like, they feel spiritually aligned for the rest of the record, but they're really lush and they're really beautiful.

• 39:59Speaker 03

  This is the second Cold God record, I believe, at least the second that I've listened to.

• 40:03Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, I think so.

• 40:05Speaker 03

  I'm really excited to see where they go next. I don't know. I mean, what, what do you guys think? You guys like shoegaze? You like the kids?

• 40:12Speaker 00

  Well, I was gonna ask, the TikTok revival, what do you make of that? You know, of like the kids getting into Duster? Is, is any of this related to that? Or is this too much of a hardcore Blood Brothers type vibe to really cross over to what's happening on TikTok apparently?

• 40:30Speaker 03

  So, you know, Rob, you were talking about being someone who was into rock music and then came like that is your meat and potatoes. And then you came to rap music a little bit differently. I'm actually kind of the opposite. So.

• 40:41Speaker 00

  Right.

• 40:42Speaker 03

  I'm curious from both of your perspectives.

• 40:46Speaker 03

  How strange is it that Duster is legitimately famous now?

• 40:50Speaker 00

  Extremely.

• 40:51Speaker 03

  Like, is that?

• 40:51Speaker 00

  Like exceedingly.

• 40:53Yasi Salek?

  Something about it, like, almost speaks to the, like, lack of guitar music that is like, there's like a desire for that's not being fulfilled. And so the kids are finding it in these like, kind of weird and different places. The shoegaze thing I don't totally understand. I mean, big shoegaze fan. We love shoegaze here on this, on this here pod. But I know producer Liz, who is, you know, was in high school when Take Care came out, told me that a lot of her friends love My Bloody Valentine. And I was like, how? Why? Not that it's not lovable. Not that Loveless is not one of the seminal albums of all time. But like, where did you find that? Who showed you?

• 41:38Speaker 00

  Turnstile are like a great live band, right? Like, that's a little more understandable. Whereas Duster, like, they just felt so obscure. It felt so random. Like, it's cool. I think it's really cool that a band like that can suddenly have a huge moment on social media out of nowhere. Like, the difference between that and like, everyone getting big into Running Up That Hill again, because it was in Stranger Things. Like, this feeling a lot more organic and random and cool. Like, I'm into that. But I just, I, this is the one where I've read so much about the shoegaze revival, and I still don't understand, like, how it started, you know, or whether someone started it on purpose or what. Like, I am

• 42:21Speaker 00

  delightfully baffled by the popularity of music like this among the youth, but I think it's awesome.

• 42:27Yasi Salek?

  We love to see it. I mean, and I love that Cold Gun record. I think that's really good. Shout out Cold Gun.

• 42:32Speaker 03

  All right. Well, we, we have not gotten to the bottom of why shoegaze matters again. So we'll shrug our shoulders at it and go.

• 42:39Yasi Salek?

  We didn't solve that.

• 42:40Speaker 00

  Save it for part two. Yeah.

• 42:42Speaker 03

  Well, the, the, don't, don't threaten that, Rob. Please don't threaten that. That's been known to happen around these parts.

• 42:48Speaker 00

  Excuse me. Sorry.

• 42:50Speaker 03

  What I am going to threaten you with is revealing your number four.

• 42:56Speaker 00

  My number four record is called What Now by Brittany Howard. Brittany Howard, of course, was the lead singer of the Alabama Shakes, who emerged in the early 2010s as sort of an out of nowhere, big deal, sort of southern rock bands. You know, they're on SNL, they're getting Grammys, you know, I, this would be an example of something that's so my shit that I'm almost suspicious, right? Like if you were big into the Drive By Truckers, for example, and then Jason Isbell, of course. This was a band I was predisposed to love and I did, and then they sort of broke up confusingly. And I think like literally in the last 24, 48 hours, like they reunited for the first time and whatever,

• 43:40Speaker 00

  like just to play some songs or whatever, but for me, personally for me, even though I wasn't there, even though I was putting up a Christmas tree at the time.

• 43:47Speaker 03

  We actually called this an NPR Christmas. I was gonna say. The Alabama Shakes reuniting is an NPR Christmas.

• 43:55Speaker 00

  It's a, it's a very, it's a very NPR.

• 43:58Yasi Salek?

  Santa bag.

• 43:59Speaker 00

  Idea, yes.

• 44:00Yasi Salek?

  Bob Boylen was like, guess what, Rob? Sorry.

• 44:04Speaker 00

  Yes, I can only be who I am and a friend of Bob Boylen is who I am. Brittany Howard makes really fascinating solo records that are much noisier, much weirder, you know, much more unexpected, much cooler. And this is her second one, I believe. It's called What Now. There are some legit Prince vibes on this, just the idea of a super talented person experimenting, you know, moving freely between like funk and rock and something very quiet and something really blaring. There's a song called Prove It To You.

• 44:42Speaker 00

  That's, I keep going back to it. There's this unexpectedly like a dance beat, like a house beat, you know, deep into the record, you know, when you already think that you understand, you know, approximately what's happening and what she might do next. Like this, this is another hard left turn that's just totally works for this record that just, I don't know. It's, it's got this weird combination of feeling really intimate and really sprawling, you know, really chaotic, challenging and surprising. Like, like just, I shouldn't use the word funky, but there's like, she's, there's, there's something about her voice and her vibe that's, that's just so comfortable, but so restless at the same time. Like this is a record that I go to and I think this, you know, this is my sort

• 45:27Speaker 00

  of comfort listen, you know, but I'm jarred just enough outside of what I'm expecting that, you know, I get what I want and that I didn't know what that I wanted like simultaneously somehow.

• 45:46Yasi Salek?

  She does have a phenomenal voice, Brittany Howard.

• 45:48Speaker 00

  She really does. Yeah.

• 45:50Yasi Salek?

  That's a cool pick, Rob. Again, you're always, you're always.

• 45:53Speaker 00

  I also wrote down Narls Barkley, but not annoying, if that helps orient you at all. Like that's, that's another, just another way to, just another way to think of it.

• 46:02Yasi Salek?

  That is helpful. Is it my turn?

• 46:05Speaker 03

  It's your turn.

• 46:05Speaker 00

  It is.

• 46:06Speaker 03

  Number four.

• 46:07Yasi Salek?

  All right. My number four is an EP that in my universe and mind came out two years ago because I had the pleasure and privilege of hearing it back then because, spoiler alert, Nepo admission, whatever it's called, whatever you have to do to when Andrew Huberman says that he does have a financial stake in Athletic Greens or whatever, when he's talking about on the podcast. These are my friends, but I have a lot of friends who make music. So that's not why they're on this list. The band is called Crushed and the EP is called Extra Life. And I just was so blown away by it when I first heard it. It kind of gave me that same, in a different way. It's, it's, it's.

• 46:51Yasi Salek?

  Kind of melancholy, but in this like, it's a horrible word and I apologize in advance for using it, but it's like filmic, like it really like, like I was driving and I was like, I am, I am the main character. Thank you. This song is making me feel like I'm the main character. It's just like, it's really beautiful. It's obviously 90s referential, which you know, in this house, we love a 90s referential. It has just like a lot going on in it. The vocalist Bree Morrell has just like an incredible voice. It's got some like trip hop elements. It's got some like the Sundays elements. It's a lot of good stuff all sort of wrapped into this like tight package of

• 47:31Yasi Salek?

  like a few perfect songs on this EP and I just love it. Every song is good and I'm so impressed by it.

• 47:48Speaker 03

  This was driving me nuts. Did Water Lily come out two years ago?

• 47:53Yasi Salek?

  I think so.

• 47:54Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 47:55Yasi Salek?

  Or what?

• 47:56Speaker 03

  I had this on a year end playlist, either last year or the year before. It's, it's that good, but I was like, I know this exists. Okay.

• 48:04Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, it's, this is very complicated because does it count? Should I not count it? The official release of the EP was this year. Okay. Cause it was kind of a slow rollout and they were like, you know, getting signed and then it's, it's out on Ghostly, but I think the official, official release date for the EP is 2024, um, early 2024.

• 48:23Speaker 03

  So yeah, I was revisiting a lot of this in the past couple of days. Cause I had, I, you know, I also like, the past month or so, I've been doing my periodic check in on the Yasi Core playlist. Just to get a sense of where we may be headed in this.

• 48:35Yasi Salek?

  Subscribe.

• 48:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, where, where we may be headed here. And, um, seeing those songs on there. I've been, I've been revisiting this. It's excellent. And I think like the trip hop call out is, is 100% right. Like, but not in an obnoxious way, right? Like not in a way where this is like purposefully, you know, like it's an homage more than it is like a, like a redo. We're not like going, there are elements of that in there that I think just really work. Water Lily remains a fantastic song. What's the other bit? What's the name of the other big song off the record?

• 49:05Yasi Salek?

  Milk Sugar, which surprisingly actually outperformed Water Lily, which I, I thought Water Lily would have been the like blowout track of this album, but people really connected with Milk Sugar. Milk Sugar is amazing. I mean, they're all bedside, respawn. They're all really good.

• 49:18Speaker 03

  This is a fantastic record.

• 49:20Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, I'm really looking, they're working on their next album. I think it's almost done. So I'm really looking forward to seeing what they do next. And I just shout out Sean Durkin and Brie Morrell, who make up Crush. It's, I return to it a lot. It's so good.

• 49:37Speaker 04

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• 50:07Speaker 03

  Well, I guess I've messed up the order so much in my effort to drive this that we're already jumping ahead to my number three, but I think that's fine because now we start some discourse, I think, just a little bit.

• 50:18Yasi Salek?

  Oh.

• 50:19Speaker 00

  Ooh, I love discourse.

• 50:23Speaker 03

  My number three is a record that is famously not available on the, on the platform that gives us all our paychecks, Spotify. It is.

• 50:33Yasi Salek?

  Shout out.

• 50:34Speaker 03

  It is.

• 50:35Yasi Salek?

  Our paycheck.

• 50:35Speaker 03

  It is a sprawling, gorgeous record.

• 50:38Yasi Salek?

  Did you write that in your notes? Did you write sprawling in your notes?

• 50:41Speaker 03

  I didn't, I didn't.

• 50:42Yasi Salek?

  I want to know if that was written down on the, on your doc.

• 50:44Speaker 03

  It's just in my head. I just, sprawling is gorgeous and it's Cindy Lee's Diamond Jubilee, which is been one of the most buzzed about records this year since it came out. It has been at the top of many, of many year end lists, has been either number one or right near the top in virtually everyone that you've seen. And it was only available on fucking GeoCities and a, just a one single YouTube upload.

• 51:14Yasi Salek?

  Respect, honestly.

• 51:16Speaker 03

  Truly, truly.

• 51:17Yasi Salek?

  Be the, be the change you want to see in the world.

• 51:20Speaker 03

  Also, it is the project of Patrick Flagle, who was in the band Women for a while, and I had totally forgotten about that band that existed in this like weird 2010 pitchfork liminal space between like when the indie stuff first blew up and then when the, uh, when they pitchfork switched to like, actually Mariah Carey is the most important porn artist in our, in our world. And it was just one of those kind of forgotten bands from that liminal space that I never really super got into. But then the Cindy Lee stuff started coming out and I really liked the record that came out in 2020. And I really liked this record. Everyone describes it as Patrick performing in drag. I don't want to like, I don't want to.

• 52:05Yasi Salek?

  You don't want to open that can of worms?

• 52:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't want to open that can of worms because I've seen some other people like have different interpretations of that, but this is, um, but that's how it most often gets referred to. This is a double record that you can now find on Bandcamp that to me sounds like a haunted old like psych soul records at times. It sounds like something that like the numero group would like reissue and then charge like $50 for with some extensive liner notes.

• 52:34Speaker 00

  Cool liner notes. Yeah, totally worth it.

• 52:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, great liner notes. Um, I really like this record in some strange way. I think it really doesn't get going until the second half. I really like the second disc a little better. So that's a lot of patience of being like, no, like you really got to stick around for the second half of this like 150 minute, uh, I don't know how long it actually is, but like.

• 52:56Speaker 00

  The third season of Schitt's Creek. It's really worth it.

• 52:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, it really takes off. But like, I mean, this record is great though overall.

• 53:12Speaker 03

  First of all, like, curious about your thoughts on it, but also, why was this one of the most talked about records this year, at least in our worlds?

• 53:20Speaker 00

  As you say, you know, forgotten 60s record, you know, Nuggets, The Velvet Underground, you know, like, the jumble, The Beach Boys, maybe, like, just the jumble of initial references, reference points that you get from this record. This is pure rock critic bait, right? This is like a classic era. You know, this would have been the best record of the year in any era of Pitchfork, you know, for the last 25 years. There's something, there was, this was another one where it's like, I'm a little suspicious of how, you know, marketed toward me this is. Like, I don't know what the initial spark is. I don't know the first, you know, if it's Pitchfork or whatever, like, I don't know what the Arcade Fire, you know,

• 54:04Speaker 00

  big bang moments for this record suddenly getting a lot of shine is, but it does not shock me at all that it accumulates this critical mass, once everyone is sort of aware of it. Because just, it has a sound, it has a mysterious vibe, GeoCities, you know, two hours long, you know, challenging, you know, I totally get why this record accumulates, you know, this mystique and this praise, even if I don't know where it came from initially.

• 54:34Speaker 03

  Yasi?

• 54:35Yasi Salek?

  I was thinking about how, like, how much I loved this album when I first heard it. I feel like we talked about it that day, like, it kind of came out and we were all talking about it, right? It was kind of getting passed around the, you know, middle-aged, rock-loving people of the internet. Like Rob said, they're following us and pandering to us with this album. And I'm kind of like, oh, wow, like, I'm a loser, because I bet if this was available in a regularly streamed fashion, it might have made my list. I can't say or not say, it's just I didn't return to it that many times because of the barrier to entry was a little, you know, much for me being the laziest person alive and being

• 55:15Yasi Salek?

  used to set in my ways of how I listen to music. But, yeah, I just, I wonder if part of the fanfare, not that it's not an amazing album, was also the delivery, was also the,

• 55:29Yasi Salek?

  Rewarding the sort of anachronistic nature of how it was put on the internet and how there was like no press done for it. It was very mysterious and like, you know, something people love is to feel they found something, you know, and I think that, I think that really put some wind in the sails of the Sendile album. And it is, it's phenomenal. Do I think it could have benefited from a light edit? Maybe, but that's not for me to decide. Yeah, it's a, it's a really great record.

• 56:00Speaker 03

  Well, speaking of great records.

• 56:03Yasi Salek?

  Yes, great transition.

• 56:05Speaker 03

  Great transition. This is what we, this is what we do. This is what we call podcasting.

• 56:08Yasi Salek?

  That's why they pay us the medium sized bucks.

• 56:10Speaker 00

  Phenomenal.

• 56:11Speaker 03

  Yasi, we're gonna hold, we're gonna skip your number three for right now because it's Rob's, it's higher up on Rob's list. So I think we should save discussion for till then. So, Rob, let's go with your number three right now.

• 56:24Speaker 00

  Okay, my number three record, it's Sturgill Simpson, right? Sturgill Simpson, you know, the very established and beloved country rock soul singer who blew up initially, you know, with these very retro sounding, you know, Waylon Jennings type records. Like, one of the first big ones was meta-modern sounds and country music, A Sailor's Guide to Earth. In that same vein of like a Jason Isbell, you know, an outlaw country, you know, insurgent type vibe, but Sturgill has gone on to refuse that mantle. And, you know, I may have dreamed this, but I'm almost positive that he put

• 57:05Speaker 00

  out like a ZZ Top record that had an anime movie attached to it that was on Netflix. Like, I really admire that Sturgill is just trying a lot of different things to not be just the retro country, they don't make them like this anymore guy. Like, he is zigging and zagging to a really intense and really delightful degree. It is under the name Johnny Blue Skies. You know, it's like nobody colon is like, Sturgill Simpson, my name is Johnny Blue Skies. Now, it's like, fine, that's fine. The artist is Johnny Blue Skies. The, the album is called, it's in French, Passage du Désir. I got that wrong, but it's fine. It's, but it's.

• 57:48Speaker 00

  It's his voice, right? Like, he has one of the most striking, the most beautiful voices in modern rock country, whatever you want to call it. Like, just, there's just something that's activated in me, just hearing him sing. These are really beautiful, really tender songs that sometimes are like, people say, are you him? I say not anymore. Like, part of the narrative of this album is him refusing this mantle of being the savior of country or country rock or whatever, but he still can't help himself. Like, there's just some incredibly beautiful, long songs. Like, there's no happy endings, just stories that end before they're through. Like, there's just a lot of 46-year-old man Instagram caption

• 58:33Speaker 00

  material happening here. This is just a really long, fascinating project to me, of somebody building a career where he just refuses to be what you think he's gonna be. And I think that's very cool.

• 58:53Yasi Salek?

  It is so interesting. I mean, we love Sturtel Simpson on this show. I don't know if I've ever said that, but I do like Sturtel Simpson. But like, kind of in the Cindy Lee vein, right? Like, you could have been Zach Bryan, probably, you know?

• 59:06Speaker 00

  Right, exactly.

• 59:07Yasi Salek?

  And you kind of was already, maybe? Like, and instead, putting, pumping the brakes on your own ascent on purpose to like, like, changing your artist name is the quickest way to like, slow the roll of, right?

• 59:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, totally, totally.

• 59:25Yasi Salek?

  Because it's like you've built brand capital, and then you're like,

• 59:27Speaker 00

  Right.

• 59:27Yasi Salek?

  "I'm Johnny Boots, guys. What's up, bitch?" And I find that really interesting, too.

• 59:32Speaker 00

  It's terrible SEO, yeah.

• 59:34Yasi Salek?

  I don't know, just noticing it in a small, minor faction of dissent amongst some musicians.

• 59:45Speaker 03

  How do we decide which of these country stars are going to be, like, approved for 40-year-old people who like rock music?

• 59:53Yasi Salek?

  There's a council.

• 59:54Speaker 03

  There is. Guys, look, there just seems to be this type of country artist that also is like, now Stereogum and Pitchfork and Rob Harville are also gonna put this on the year-end list, where like, the tradit- the more like- The people that you see on stage at the CMA would never sniff that list, right? And I'm, Sturgill might be up there.

• 1:00:15Yasi Salek?

  You mean like Luke Bryan is not gonna be on that list?

• 1:00:17Speaker 03

  Luke Bryan is not gonna be on that list, but Zac Brian will.

• 1:00:20Speaker 00

  Chris Stapleton, you know, who is sort of the accepted, like among, in the in crowd, he is the accepted, not in the in crowd member of the in crowd. He is the throwback. He is the country star. It is cool for rock people to like Zac Brian is a fantastic example. Like Isbell, of course, like, yeah, it's, you can tell these people, you know, Jelly Roll is an interesting figure in that vein now with like the, with the addition of sort of the rap, you know, prehistory, you know, the idea of authenticity, you know, it all goes back to this idea of like the outlaw and that they don't make them like this anymore, you know, and I, I love everything but rap and country, you know, except for

• 1:01:04Speaker 00

  these five country singers and, and, you know, those slots are updated weekly from my base here in Ohio.

• 1:01:12Yasi Salek?

  I think Jelly Roll is a really interesting example because he actually occupies both spaces, like somehow it's okay for both sides to like him and his, his audience is made up of like trad country people who are like, hell yeah, Luke Bryan, and also like cool guy pitchfork people who are like, hell yeah, Jelly Roll, like it's a, it's, he really, he kind of cracked the code, that guy.

• 1:01:32Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:01:33Yasi Salek?

  Is it my turn?

• 1:01:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's your turn. What's your number two?

• 1:01:36Yasi Salek?

  My number two is Fontaine's DC's Romance.

• 1:01:41Speaker 03

  Ooh.

• 1:01:43Yasi Salek?

  I love this fucking album. We asked if Guitar Rock is back. I mean, it certainly is on this album. You know, I'm partial to British and Irish bands in general. Those two things are different. I do know that for those of you listening. I love that this album dares to posit the theory, maybe romance is a place.

• 1:02:00Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:02:07Yasi Salek?

  I love a through line and this album has a through line. I love that it covers, you know, okay, like, obviously, there's, there's nothing new under the sun. It's not about where you take it from, it's where you take it to. But I just feel like this album covers a ton of ground in terms of like influences that I can pick out that I love that are like The Cure, The Pixies, some Britpop, some Goth, some 90s alternative, some James Joyce, Babe, I'm Living. But it's not derivative in a way that's annoying, you know? They kind of like make something interesting and new out of it. Also, there's some songs that evoke worship type music again, which is something I really love, like that song Desire on here.

• 1:02:50Yasi Salek?

  Horsoness is the whatness, which is the song that opens with the heartbeat of Carlos O'Connell's daughter on it, which I find very moving. I like that it takes like these huge swings, you know, like, you know, back to the shoegaze of it all or whatever. It's not like a subdued or muted or like too cool for school album. Like it, there's drama is dramatic. And I think it's very funny to call a song, Here's the Thing. And also Favorite is a perfect song. It's a perfect song. There's nothing wrong with that song. 10 out of 10, perfect song.

• 1:03:26Speaker 00

  When Oasis announced their reunion, I feel like everyone immediately was like, the Fontaines DC are gonna open for Oasis, right? Like I, there was something, and based on that, when I went to listen to that, that this album a little later, it was not at all what I expected it to be based on what everyone assumed.

• 1:03:45Yasi Salek?

  What did you think it was gonna sound like? Just straight, like, kind of Britpop 2.0?

• 1:03:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I, yeah, something, something in the, the earlier Arctic Monkeys mindset, you know, like just a charlatans type deal or whatever. So it was, it was a lot spikier, you know, a lot more challenging, you know, the voice was a lot less soothing, you know, than I thought it was gonna be, but I dug that about it, right? And then, didn't it, didn't one of the Gallaghers come out and say like, no, this band- And sucks, you know, I don't want them opening for like it was

• 1:04:16Yasi Salek?

  There was some back and forth in the press.

• 1:04:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, there we go. So I

• 1:04:21Yasi Salek?

  I believe it was actually the guy from the Fontaines that said, we don't want to do that. I think

• 1:04:26Speaker 03

  One of the guys from the Fontaine said that, and then one of the Gallaghers sniped back and said they they dress like they're EMF from Unbelievable Fame.

• 1:04:35Yasi Salek?

  Again, points were made on both sides and we're just not gonna

• 1:04:40Speaker 00

  Let's call this a draw.

• 1:04:42Yasi Salek?

  It's not, it's not a contest and I'm not

• 1:04:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:45Yasi Salek?

  Yeah. It was giving a little of like, I think Rob and I are obviously fresh off Oasis. It was giving a little Michael Hutchence presenting the award and Noel saying has-beens shouldn't present awards to about-to-be's or gonna-be's. And I'm like, Noel's gonna come bite you in the ass, bitch. But I love, I love this album. I think it's phenomenal. I do think there's like two rock bands that are like big right now, right? Three rock bands that are kind of big. And I do, I think Fontaines are pretty big. I saw them live this year at the Palladium and it was, they're incredible live. And I'm excited to see what they're gonna do. They do have the same management, I believe, as Arctic Monkeys. They're in the family.

• 1:05:29Speaker 03

  Yasi, what do you make of the narrative around this record that it was kind of like a reinvention of sorts? Because their earlier records were a little darker and more like traditional quote unquote post-punk. And I think like

• 1:05:42Yasi Salek?

  Yeah. I like Skin T, is it Skin T Fia?

• 1:05:46Speaker 03

  That's, that sounds right. That sounds like, that's, that's, that sounds like a British term that I will never learn the running.

• 1:05:51Yasi Salek?

  It's Irish, Irish term. Okay? It's different.

• 1:05:55Speaker 03

  A United, I'm sorry that you've had to do this for like

• 1:05:58Yasi Salek?

  Ireland is not part of the United Kingdom.

• 1:06:01Speaker 03

  Look at the, they're not, oh God, wow. Look at, wow. Wow. You should leave this all in because I want

• 1:06:07Yasi Salek?

  Have you not watched Say Nothing, the acclaimed Hulu television program?

• 1:06:13Speaker 00

  It's in the queue.

• 1:06:14Speaker 03

  Yeah. Um, so.

• 1:06:17Speaker 03

  Producers of the show, leave this in because I want everyone to know, everyone who listens to the show and lectures Yasi about things happening in the United Kingdom, that she's getting this right and that she is teaching me in real time.

• 1:06:31Yasi Salek?

  Northern Ireland is part of the UK, Ireland, Ireland is not.

• 1:06:36Speaker 03

  Okay, so what do you make of this discourse around this record? That it was something of a reinvention?

• 1:06:46Yasi Salek?

  I don't even see that discourse, to be honest, because blessedly, I'm sort of, you know, my algorithm is different. But, I mean, can a band not grow? Like, what are you guys taught? What are you guys on about? Like, a band can't, they're supposed to keep making the exact same music, album over album, as they grow and change as people in their hearts and minds?

• 1:07:06Speaker 03

  That's where I land as well. I just wanted to get it on the record, but that's where I land as well.

• 1:07:12Yasi Salek?

  Also, I think that's cool about Fontaine's is that we're like, seemingly post-politics in a lot of, you know, what used to be a space where particularly rock bands would have a stance on things and be sort of vocal about that stance. And like, the Fontaines are very vocal, you know, they're very pro-Palestine. They perform with the Palestinian flag on their, you know, stage. They take any opportunity at award shows to talk about, you know, the causes that are important to them. I think that's a particularly like, cool thing of an Irish band, you know, in the lineage of resistance. So, I don't know, I just, I really love them. And you know what?

• 1:07:52Yasi Salek?

  I think they look cool, even though, yeah, I think their style evolution deserves more of a discourse than the musical evolution. Because they did, you know, they got all wild with it, they got all freaky with it. But like, shouldn't rock bands get freaky with it? Isn't that the whole point?

• 1:08:06Speaker 03

  Who among us?

• 1:08:08Yasi Salek?

  Who among us hasn't gotten freaky with it with a little bit of a glam budget? Rob, you like this album?

• 1:08:14Speaker 00

  I do. Again, it was harder to wrap my head around than I thought it was gonna be. Again, I thought it was gonna be something I recognized and it was less of something I recognized, but I think that ultimately that will be better for me.

• 1:08:29Yasi Salek?

  Do you think Bob Boylan likes this album?

• 1:08:32Speaker 00

  Let me ask him. He's in my living room right now. And whoa, I'll let you know what Bob thinks later.

• 1:08:40Speaker 03

  Rob?

• 1:08:40Speaker 00

  Yo.

• 1:08:41Speaker 03

  We can take your number two next.

• 1:08:43Yasi Salek?

  Bobby.

• 1:08:44Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:08:44Yasi Salek?

  Bobby.

• 1:08:45Speaker 03

  And what is this record? What is your number two?

• 1:08:48Speaker 00

  My number two record is called Night Reign, R-E-I-G-N, by Aruj Aftab, who is a Pakistani-American singer and songwriter. The first record of hers I got into was Vulture Prince from, I think, 2021. Sort of a jazz folk vibes sort of thing. She has an absurdly beautiful voice, first of all.

• 1:09:13Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:14Speaker 00

  I sort of-

• 1:09:14Yasi Salek?

  It's real gothy.

• 1:09:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's gothy. I sort of hesitate to compare it to anyone directly, but like, there's some shade, a lot of shade in there for me, which I really dig. She sings a lot in Urdu. There's just like a richness, like a depth and like a sadness to her that's just incredibly striking to me. I will tell you the single most spiritual musical experience I had in 2024 is I took- The family went on a Disney cruise, right? We had not been on a vacation, you know, and like, pre-COVID or whatever. Went on a Disney cruise. I'm taking my daughter around to like, you know, meet Goofy and Mickey Mouse or whatever.

• 1:09:56Speaker 00

  It's chaos the whole time. And so I finally get like an hour to myself, like on day three of a Disney cruise. And so I go up onto the like adult deck and I just sit in a beach chair looking out at the ocean. And I'm reading on my Kindle Dune, the fur- I had never read the Dune both, so I'm reading Dune on my Kindle and listening to this record. And I, it was, it was, I, I just, I entered another dimension. I don't know any other way to put it. It was just, it was a really beautiful, really otherworldly experience, but I just, I struggle to think of, of like a singer, you know, who can grab me within two seconds, the way that she can.

• 1:10:39Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:49Yasi Salek?

  I love this album. It's so good. I think that's a great pick. She, she really has such a beautiful voice and it's such an interesting, interesting sound. And she has more mother on this album.

• 1:10:59Speaker 00

  That's right. That's right. Yeah.

• 1:11:01Yasi Salek?

  Another, another artist, I, I don't, I wouldn't compare them, but I just say like, doing really interesting and beautiful things and like, this avant garde-ish space. Yeah, this is very cool. It's very up the, up the alley of, people who like weird shit with a beautiful voice. It's a very interesting, well, we can talk about it at the end, but I'm, I like this, I like this through line that we're all sort of finding, finding God in the music. It's a real godless time.

• 1:11:32Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, speaking of that.

• 1:11:35Yasi Salek?

  Speaking of God, is that your transition?

• 1:11:37Speaker 03

  Speaking of finding God in music.

• 1:11:39Yasi Salek?

  Okay. Wow. Amazing.

• 1:11:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. Look, transitions. That's why, that's what we do. Segues. That's what we do here. My number two is somebody who has gone on many, many, many spiritual journeys through his music. Sometimes, sometimes coming across maybe a little bit too, uh, I don't know, tongue in cheek, but like, I don't know. Uh, I'm going with Father John Misty and I'm gonna butcher the pronunciation in my first tryer. Maybe I'll get it, but the name of the new record is Mahash Mashana. Did I, do you think I got that?

• 1:12:18Speaker 00

  You nailed it. I think you got it. I'm the pronunciation king around here and I think you nailed it. So, you probably got it wrong, is what I'm saying.

• 1:12:27Speaker 03

  I really feel like I'm on like an every other record thing with Father John Misty at this point. I feel like. I don't know if I need like four years away from him. Every, every now and then, I really, I wasn't wild about his last record, which was um the one that was kind of like this.

• 1:12:43Speaker 00

  Chloe one?

• 1:12:44Speaker 03

  If the Chloe in the 21st century, which was like really fascinating conceptually. It was like Randy Newman doing like a roaring twenties kind of album. But talking about it in the modern age about how we are repeating all of history's mistakes. And that sounds really fascinating. And that was something that I really did not enjoy spending a lot of time with. So I didn't really listen to that one. I love this new record and this actually started as my number five on my list. And the more I was listening this past week, I just kept bumping it up and up to the point where it's number two. I think this might be my favorite record of his since Honey Bear.

• 1:13:24Speaker 03

  I think it's absolutely fantastic. Um, there was a rumor floating around that was, that it was his divorce record. I have no idea whether that's true or not.

• 1:13:32Yasi Salek?

  I feel like I saw him debunk that on X.com.

• 1:13:35Speaker 03

  You said that, you said that, but I, I couldn't necessarily find that. So if he did, I apologize. However, every Father John mystery record to me kind of sounds like a divorce record, even the one, even Honey Bear where he was getting married. They all kind of sound like, they all kind of.

• 1:13:50Yasi Salek?

  It's like how like some people are a wife guy, but he's divorced guy.

• 1:13:53Speaker 03

  He's kind of divorced guy. He has several different modes that feel related. There's like this ironic Randy Newman thing that he does that like, I'm not wild about, but here he's doing this mode that I really do like, which is like ayahuasca, warren zevon.

• 1:14:11Yasi Salek?

  Uh huh.

• 1:14:12Speaker 03

  I really, I'm, I'm into that. I think that to use the word again, this record is very sprawling, but yes. Yeah, but it is sprawling. There are like 10 minute songs on here that just kind of work with like this really incredible, to use this word again, lush arrangements. I really like this record. I didn't realize until today, but he put out a greatest hits record earlier this year, which I was unaware of, but the one original song he recorded for that ended up being a song that he tapped onto this record and. One of my favorite songs he ever did, which is, I guess, Time Makes Fools of Us All. It's this nine-minute, like, kind of white boy funk record where he's kind of just running through his career,

• 1:14:54Speaker 03

  like, talking about turning down the Rolling Stone record, but also kind of just making fun of himself. There's a great song that is like, it feels like it was, if you, if you asked ChatGPT to name a Father John Misty song, they would spit this out, but it's Josh Tillman and the Accidental Overdose. Which is just like, it's a fantastic name for the song. It is a fantastic song. The first lines on this record are, "His body is the Gelson's, her soul the fallen star." And I think that is also like ChatGPT-ing some Father John Misty shit.

• 1:15:27Yasi Salek?

  It's very LA.

• 1:15:28Speaker 03

  It's very LA. And having lived here for a decade now, I, I, I see this and it's like pointing Leo meme, like, he said Gelson's.

• 1:15:43Yasi Salek?

  You know which Gelson's it is too. It's obvious, it's obviously the Gelson's on Franklin with the wine bar.

• 1:15:48Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:15:49Speaker 00

  What is Gelson's?

• 1:15:50Yasi Salek?

  It's an expensive, expensive grocery store here in beautiful Los Angeles, California.

• 1:15:56Speaker 03

  Josh, did you, do you shop there or are you just solely near Wongarli at this point?

• 1:16:00Yasi Salek?

  Neither of the above. My secret third thing, I mostly shop at the farmer's market and Sprouts. I only go to Aragon if I like desperately need something that only they have, which is, which is kind of rare.

• 1:16:13Speaker 03

  I hear you. I hear you. Same here.

• 1:16:15Yasi Salek?

  I like this Father John Misty album. I think, I think it's cool. I didn't, I didn't listen to it a ton of times, but I did like it the couple of times I listened to it.

• 1:16:22Speaker 03

  Rob, something that you've, you've probably had to write and think a lot about this man over the years?

• 1:16:28Speaker 00

  I have, and I have to be honest and say, I haven't listened to this yet, but it's because I feel like I want to be in a very specific mind state. Like, this is a very important record to me personally. I, maybe, I, I would, I would accept drunk. Uh, it's like I'm saving it, right? Like, I don't want to just put it on as background music. You know, like, I want to savor it, you know, because I'm, I'm with you, Justin. Like I, I haven't loved a record of his like Honey Bear, I think is still my favorite. Like Honey Bear and Pure Comedy are both, I loved both of those in real time, but I, the ones since then

• 1:17:08Speaker 00

  have been cool, but I, I'd been cooling off on them a bit and I've, you know, I've seen a lot of people really love this record. You know, getting a lot of, you know, his best since blank sort of action. And so I'm very excited for it, but it's one of those things where I'm psyching myself up so much that I haven't listened to it yet.

• 1:17:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, um, yeah, sure. I do that with Rob Harvilla podcasts, actually.

• 1:17:35Speaker 03

  The, I think the word dad rock gets thrown, thrown around a little too much, but there is one song on here. It's the second track. It is She Cleans Up. And that just to me feels like a dad rock ripper. Like if you put that on in the minivan, you are going to be playing the drums on the steering wheel. Like you are going to be having the best time.

• 1:17:53Speaker 00

  I gotta pick up the pizza.

• 1:17:55Speaker 03

  Yep. Yeah. I love this record. I recommend you listen to it when you're in the right mindset. Maybe over these holidays, you can decompress and, um, you know, eat some mushrooms and have an ego death and listen to the new father, John Misty.

• 1:18:06Speaker 00

  Interesting. I will do some of those things for sure.

• 1:18:12Speaker 03

  Uh, what is, what is podcasting if not one long ego death?

• 1:18:17Yasi Salek?

  Such a bestie.

• 1:18:18Speaker 03

  And on that, on that note, um, we should probably barrel into Rob's number one, which is Yasi's number three. And start to wrap up this long, I think very revelatory exercise.

• 1:18:31Speaker 00

  Absolutely. I didn't know going into this, what would be my number one. I'm sort of surprised by this, but every time I return to this record, it sort of blows me away. I knew it's the cure. It's Songs of a Lost World by The Cure. You know, I have spent hours and hours talking to Yasi and we've come to the conclusion subliminally that like for a band that's been around for whatever, it's 40 years, like 30, 40 years to make a record.

• 1:19:00Yasi Salek?

  Late seventies. So, yeah.

• 1:19:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:19:02Yasi Salek?

  The band is older than me.

• 1:19:04Speaker 03

  It's older than me and Yasi.

• 1:19:05Speaker 00

  To make a record.

• 1:19:06Speaker 03

  But not Rob.

• 1:19:07Speaker 00

  Okay. Okay. All right. Thank you.

• 1:19:11Speaker 00

  For them to make a record in 2024 that feels like, I'm not going to say it's better than disintegration or anything, but that feels consonant with their best work. That is arguably a first tier record of theirs. That also feels like it reflects something inherent about the year 2024. For The Cure to make a record right now that feels as fresh as current, you know, as new as this one does. I get into my rock critic mindset where it's like, it's monolithic, like the pace, it's glacial, you know, it's like these towering vistas.

• 1:19:46Yasi Salek?

  Would you call it sprawling?

• 1:19:48Speaker 00

  It's sprawling, right? But there's just, there's something so huge about it. Is there a musical word for a pop song where the lyrics don't come in until like halfway through the song? Like, there's something like that happens repeatedly on this record.

• 1:20:03Yasi Salek?

  Bobby Smith classic.

• 1:20:05Speaker 00

  That's right. But it's, it's so patient. This record overwhelms me. And like, I don't want to hit this too hard, right? But like, it's been a hard year. Whatever you feel about the outcome of like the election, just the psychic damage of the election throughout this year, just the horrible vibes on social media, you know, this year I think has been a struggle. And I'm just, I'm confronted by this record that in classic Bobby Smith fashion is just very bleak and very dour and very like, this is the end of everything. And like, it ends with a song called End Song. There's something so fundamentally goth, melodramatic, defeatist, bleak about it, but it's beautiful at the same time. And I

• 1:20:50Speaker 00

  don't want to go too far and say that like, it's inspiring, like it's encouraging, but there's a really specific emotional character that this record has where it reflects sort of the bleakness of the times, but it sort of points a way forward, like through them. I, I'm sort of working it out. Like every time I put this record on, you know, I'm just sort of immersed in it. And I'm immersed in sort of the bleakness, you know, and the sadness and the melodrama of it. But there's just something so cool about The Cure putting out a record this good right now. That's like a light in the darkness, I guess.

• 1:21:29Yasi Salek?

  I mean, honestly, that's why I was saying about the ranking, like, any of these could have probably been anywhere on the list and I would have felt good about it. Like, the this Cure album, like, absolutely bowled me over. I mean, let's say, the elephant in the room, nobody is checking for a band's 11th album 40 years later, I made that up, I don't know what number album it is, it's probably more than 11 actually, to be excellent. Like, that's not what, that's not what people are thinking, like, when they're like, oh, good for you. Yeah, it's often like, cool, good, that's nice that you're still trying. But I think, you know, I actually wrote about this, because I was like, so moved by all of it. I think, you know, so much of it, for me, is like, the imperial phase of it

• 1:22:11Yasi Salek?

  all, like, the Neil Tennant's theory of the imperial phase of a band. And a lot of bands cannot accept the end of their imperial phase, and then they make, as a reaction to clinging to what they once had, and it's bad, you know, because you're not Right. creating art from where you are, you're creating art from where you were. And I think the thing about this album that makes part of it, to me, which makes it so good, is that like, it's so clearly just being authentically created from like, the age and time and space that Robert Smith occupies now, 40 years later, grappling with his own mortality, grappling with the mortality of the people around him. Several people died

• 1:22:54Yasi Salek?

  that, during the making of this album, I think it was, his mother and his brother? His brother, his brother. Yeah. Anyways, yeah, his older brother, Richard, who was, he was really close to, passed away. And, you know, it's just, it's probably a little easier to like, make a really great album that deals with death, when you've been making albums that deal with death since you were 17 years old, but Yeah. Yeah, it's just, it's a phenomenal album. It's not even, not even that it's in my top five albums of the year, it's in my, like, probably in my top five Cure albums, which is crazy. That's what I'm saying, which is shocking. To put out a like 16th album or whatever, and somehow, it, and you know, apparently he has two more albums written. Hmm.

• 1:23:38Yasi Salek?

  That are gonna come out. Yeah, that were all sort of part of this, like, batch. Yeah, it's, it's a phenomenal achievement, it's just incredible, the lyrics, the music, it's, it's just, good job, Bobby Smith.

• 1:24:00Speaker 03

  This would have made my list if it wasn't so highly on yours and I just wanted to get other records on this, but this was-

• 1:24:08Yasi Salek?

  This is self-sacrifice, good for you?

• 1:24:09Speaker 00

  This is very kind of you.

• 1:24:11Speaker 03

  What is, what is listening to a Cure record in 2024 if not like making, you know, adding a little bit of self-modern to it?

• 1:24:22Speaker 03

  This record is so good, I don't have much to add beyond what you guys did. I just want to say that "End Song" is like instantly in my top 10 favorite Cure songs ever. I absolutely love that song, it's gorgeous. It, to the, in feeling in conversation, it feels like it's in conversation with "Plain Song."

• 1:24:40Yasi Salek?

  Totally. I mean, this album I feel like is in conversation with "Disintegration." Like that's, it's, they're definitely calling to each other across the moors, you know?

• 1:24:58Speaker 03

  "Plain Song" and "End Song" exist on two ends of a spectrum, but they are on a spectrum. So, and the just, and it's just not just, the spectrum isn't just songs that end with the word "song," but um, just, you know, just texturally and spiritually.

• 1:25:12Yasi Salek?

  And then Justin, we have the same first number one.

• 1:25:15Speaker 03

  The same number one? If, if only for producing purposes and expediency, no, this was my favorite record of the year and your favorite record of the year. Should we, should we drumroll it?

• 1:25:27Yasi Salek?

  Our number one is

• 1:25:31Yasi Salek?

  "I Got Heaven" by Mannigan Pussy. Hell yeah, bitch.

• 1:25:37Speaker 03

  Fantastic record.

• 1:25:38Yasi Salek?

  I'm sorry, this album is phenomenal. Again, not to be a little bitch, but Missy sent me this album before it came out and I, to be, to honor her. I, I have, kind of like with Charlie, but in an, even in a deeper way, I have a long history with Mannigan Pussy. Like, you know, I saw them play at my friends' like DIY space junior high 10 years ago and I was really taken with them. Also, Missy and I are immediately kind of like, oh, we look like sisters.

• 1:26:05Yasi Salek?

  We were like really taken aback by how much we looked alike and we just kind of bonded. And I've loved this band since then and they've gone through many iterations. But just to like this level of like growth and um it's just like from where they started to where they've come. I listened to the album again in the car. I do think I think the most respectful place to listen to an album is in the car. Because you really immerse yourself in it. And I had that feeling. I had maybe and it's not a contest, but like almost maybe more than any of these other albums. But like they were all kind of came close where I felt a spiritual experience. I felt high listening to this album like it's just has so much texture, so many sonic layers.

• 1:26:49Yasi Salek?

  But also like, I don't think there's been an album since, for me anyways, since like Rid of Me or Live Through This. That sort of captures the like, the depth and breadth and and you know, complexity and contradiction of being a woman. Like Missy and the band really fucking get that in a way that's like so fucking cool. And there's aggression on this record, but there's like transcendence and like the sacred and the profane. It's just, it's just phenomenal. Like the, sorry, Justin, I'm gonna, I'm gonna let you finish, but.

• 1:27:27Speaker 03

  No, I'm gonna let you cook.

• 1:27:29Yasi Salek?

  Just one of the greatest opening, one of the greatest opening lines of any album is the first line of I Got Heaven. I went and walked myself like a dog without a leash.

• 1:27:47Yasi Salek?

  Her lyrics, just like the pre chorus of that song where she goes, and what if we stopped spinning? And what if we're just flat? And what if Jesus himself ate my fucking snatch?

• 1:27:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:27:58Yasi Salek?

  And then that one ends with, and what if I was confident, would you just hate me more? Even just saying those lyrics, I get the chills. Like, she's, it's just incredible. They're incredible. And, you know, this is a band with roots, deep roots in punk and hardcore, and they don't leave that behind. You know, in the back of the album, there's still plenty of hardcore moments. I'm particularly fond of the song, "Okay, Okay, Okay," that Bear wrote. I love that. It's just, it's just an incred- Loud Bark.

• 1:28:27Speaker 00

  Loud Bark is the one for me.

• 1:28:28Yasi Salek?

  One of the best songs. That's one of the best songs of the year.

• 1:28:32Speaker 03

  I just wanted to jump in and say that Yasi heard the record before I did, and she called me after she heard it and said that she, track two on the record, Loud Bark, she was driving, and it made her tear up.

• 1:28:45Yasi Salek?

  I did. I cried.

• 1:28:46Speaker 03

  The first time she listened. Track two on a record is like very early for that to happen. However-

• 1:28:52Speaker 00

  That is true.

• 1:28:52Speaker 03

  There is something so visceral about that song, right? And like, just like, the thing about Mannequin Pussy is they have, and Missy has, and the whole band has this incredible ability to write these songs that feel like the catchiest, like, they could be with different production and different instrumentation, the catchiest, like, prettiest, or just the most emotional pop song you've ever heard in your life. Like, I think back to Drunk Two, which I think was like really, like a leveling up for the band, because I've liked them since about 2016,

• 1:29:30Speaker 03

  when I first heard them, but like, Drunk Two felt like a different thing to me. And this is kind of a leveling up from that, even if like, none of these songs might reach the same streaming numbers as Drunk Two. Like, I Got Heaven is just like, the way that it goes back and forth between the two things that Missy does well, which are these like really beautiful melodies, and just this real visceral screaming. And just the way that she unleashes it, you know, you've, I'm kind of jumping all over the place, but I think it actually, but I hope I'm making my points well, where you brought up like, the live through this of it all, and there is that energy that comes out throughout this. I will say that I don't get out the house much for shows these days.

• 1:30:13Speaker 03

  Um, I did manage to see Mannequin Pussy twice this year, and- Both times, the performance of Loud Bark, where I don't want to spoil it for anybody that's coming to a show coming up, but I think they're wrapping up the tour, so I think it's safe. But where they, Missy opens with this spoken word monologue over just the bassline, and then the guitars kick in, and then she does the, kind of the, the background, the, almost like the chant, the "Ah."

• 1:30:42Yasi Salek?

  It's a chant, yeah. There's a chanting quality to the whole song, which is so prescient, then.

• 1:30:48Speaker 03

  Right, and right, it definitely has like that rhythmic, "Loud Bark." Right, it's like, oh my god, like, that song, this whole record.

• 1:31:04Speaker 03

  You know, at The Ringer, "We," by "we," I mean "me," named them our band of the year. We had, we commissioned a feature article on them, just to, so everyone knows how the decisions get made. If you're wondering about editorial processes, this is me getting an email and being like, "Ice." Yeah, it's a democracy of one, what do we call that? That's, um, but this, this record is the one that has stuck with me the most this year. It is a fantastic record. And what I'm saying is, Rob, why isn't this on your list? Do you hate women?

• 1:31:34Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, Rob, what's up with that, Ben?

• 1:31:35Speaker 00

  Jeez, that's rude. I see fewer shows than you do, and I saw them live as well. I saw them on tour with Soul Glow.

• 1:31:43Yasi Salek?

  Hell, yeah, we love Soul Glow, too, great band.

• 1:31:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:46Speaker 00

  And, and I, Loud Bark, I don't remember the spoken word part, but Loud Bark was when I was like, okay, this is fantastic. "I Don't Know You," the song, "I Don't Know You," was also really, really striking live. So this is, this is the best live show that I saw in 2024, which doesn't mean as much as it would have 10 years ago, but like, yes. I, it's, I really dug the record, you know, I listened to it a few times before the show just to acclimate myself or whatever, but like, it, it's not until I saw them live that I really got it, you know, and those are the two songs that got to me.

• 1:32:23Yasi Salek?

  They're wonderful, they're fantastic, Missy's a star. We stand mannequin pussy here on this show.

• 1:32:32Speaker 04

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• 1:33:02Speaker 03

  Are there any records that you think we need to hit very quickly? We don't need to do a whole honorable mentions section. We could tweet out our honorable mentions or whatever, unless Yasi, you feel the need to be completist, but like, one, so Brat didn't make any of our lists. And if I'm going to be honest, Brat could have made my list, except I'm still a little annoyed when we put her at number one on the Ringer list. And then we got the tweet of, saw the tweet that was like, here are all the publications that named it number one. And I saw the Ringer on there and I'm like, we do same game parlays. That's our business at the, at the Ringer. Like, let's have, let's, Charlie, let's, this is, this is kind of embarrassing for both me and you that you're tweeting this out.

• 1:33:41Yasi Salek?

  I don't know why that would annoy you. It makes no sense to me. Of course she's going to include a, we're a very esteemed publication.

• 1:33:47Speaker 03

  Extremely. Maybe, maybe not after I reveal how the editorial decisions get made on this episode, but until then, we did, we didn't include Brat, we didn't include MKG, we didn't include MJ Lenderman, which is-

• 1:33:59Yasi Salek?

  MJ Lendys. That was, that was kind of surprised.

• 1:34:03Speaker 03

  Why, why is MJ Lenderman not on our list?

• 1:34:05Yasi Salek?

  You and Rob were probably running away from your true nature and you didn't want to admit who you really are and I understand that.

• 1:34:13Speaker 00

  I think that's exactly right. It's, I, you know, every time she's leaving you, comes on, it's like, no, this is my favorite song of the year. Yeah. It's, I'm trying to resist it and failing to resist it, but just like, you know what? The other song this year that I love maybe more than any other is the Waxahatchee, right back to it.

• 1:34:35Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:36Speaker 00

  With them, the duet there.

• 1:34:37Yasi Salek?

  That album is also phenomenal and it didn't make anyone's lists, but we were thinking about it.

• 1:34:53Yasi Salek?

  I love that MJ Lenderman album and I really loved it when it came out. I think maybe Cameron Winter kind of took that spot on my list because I it's like we have a weirder MJ Lenderman on our hands in a way.

• 1:35:05Yasi Salek?

  That's how it worked out in my brain, but that album is fantastic. And obviously that's reflected in many best of of the year lists, like deservedly so. It's a great album. I want to point out a couple that I think maybe are not. Well, Justin, you might have thought of it and I think I think you're going to talk about it when you talk about song, but I really love the High Viz album guided tour. I think it was like an pretty incredible leap for them and it has a lot of different sounds on it that are sort of new for them. They're a great band. I love the Two Hollis album, Boy. That's actually the album that got knocked out of my top five by Cameron Winter. This is me being hello fellow kids, but like it's really cool. I think I think it's a really amazing.

• 1:35:48Yasi Salek?

  I don't know how to describe it because I don't even know what that kind of music is called. Like, what would you call it, Justin?

• 1:35:53Speaker 03

  Oh, I've listened to this record twice. I honestly, I couldn't tell you.

• 1:35:57Yasi Salek?

  But what like, what is that? Like, it's like the music of the children. I don't know. Like, it's but I went to a show.

• 1:36:04Speaker 00

  Of the children.

• 1:36:05Yasi Salek?

  It's it's like what the kids listen. It's it's like not rap and it's not pop, but it's like a secret third thing. You know what I mean?

• 1:36:11Speaker 03

  It's like it's like in the same world as Hundred Gecs.

• 1:36:15Yasi Salek?

  Exactly.

• 1:36:16Speaker 03

  You know?

• 1:36:16Speaker 00

  Oh, dear.

• 1:36:17Speaker 03

  So I guess it's like, I don't want to use that word hyperpop doesn't.

• 1:36:21Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, it's not quite hyperpop.

• 1:36:23Speaker 03

  But.

• 1:36:24Yasi Salek?

  It's yeah, it's hard to say, but whatever it is, you guys should check it out. Two Hollis, Boy, I think it's a great album. I think he's only going to do more amazing things. He's 20. That was a great show I went to. And then the Christopher Owens album, I Want to Run Barefoot Through Your Hair is a really good album.

• 1:36:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's a good show.

• 1:36:41Yasi Salek?

  We love to see Christopher Owens.

• 1:36:43Speaker 03

  That was actually one of my favorite songs of the year was the I Think About Heaven.

• 1:36:47Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, it's really good.

• 1:36:48Speaker 03

  No Good is a fantastic song as well. I mean, that's.

• 1:36:53Speaker 03

  That record's very heavy. There's of course that incredibly sad backstory, but like it's fantastic record. I think the Jessica Pratt record also probably deserves a quick shout out, which kind of feels like, you know, it, I like that record. It feels a little more like a like lounge record to me than some of her previous works, but I'm a fan.

• 1:37:12Yasi Salek?

  Rob, you have any honorable menches?

• 1:37:15Speaker 00

  I really loved this Cali Uchi's record, Orchidias, I think it's called. I think it's pronounced.

• 1:37:23Yasi Salek?

  You're full of surprises, Rob.

• 1:37:25Speaker 00

  I guess so. I, it's, I start from a place of like, I'm just mesmerized by her voice. You know, I, the songs on this record I tend to gravitate toward again are in a sort of shadé sort of mode, but she does a lot of different things like Peso Pluma is on this record. You know, like there's, there's a lot of rap overlap, you know, I, I sort of luxuriate in what I don't know when I listen to this record, right? Like this isn't my comfort zone necessarily, but I just, I'm so drawn by her voice immediately, you know, that I take the ride and get something new out of it every time. So I think that record came out all the way in January and I, I keep going back to it, you know, and keep not getting tired of it.

• 1:38:09Speaker 03

  And it came out so long ago that it already has a sequel.

• 1:38:12Speaker 00

  Oh, well, I haven't even, I haven't even gotten to that one yet.

• 1:38:17Speaker 03

  Well, look at this. We're all, we're all learning something here today. Should we do some rapid fire songs and then, uh?

• 1:38:24Yasi Salek?

  Are we not doing our best song? This is not a superlative?

• 1:38:28Speaker 03

  Let's do our best song. It's a superlative.

• 1:38:30Yasi Salek?

  As per your instructions, Justin, one that was not on our top five list, something outside of that. Rob, do you want to go first?

• 1:38:38Speaker 00

  Yeah. And as basic as it is, I think Good Luck Babe by Chapel Rohn has this undeniable.

• 1:38:55Speaker 00

  I'm with you, Yasi. Like I, I listened to the record that came out last year, but then I went back to it and like casual is the one for me with her, right? But like, but Good Luck Babe. It's just so cool to watch like one song sort of catapult somebody like several levels in one shot.

• 1:39:17Yasi Salek?

  Standalone song.

• 1:39:18Speaker 00

  Exactly. It just, there's, there's so much personality, you know, so much charisma, you know, so much disruption in that song while still being like a perfect pop song, you know, that might remind you of like five to 10 of your favorite pop stars of the last 30 years, but it's also so singularly her, you know, I just, that's such a magic trick to be a totally new thing, you know, that also reminds you of 50 old things that you love. And so just a pop song as like a catapults, you know, I can't remember the last time there was something like Good Luck Babe, where it's just, she suddenly just snapped

• 1:40:00Speaker 00

  into focus, you know, for the vast majority of people, or at least, you know, the dads of Ohio.

• 1:40:07Yasi Salek?

  It's a phenomenal song and it's a good choice. What about you, Justin?

• 1:40:11Speaker 03

  There are a few that I cycle between, like, you know, Charlie didn't make any of our albums list. I really liked the song, I Think About It All The Time, which is of course the song where she, where she thinks about having a baby right before the next song where she's talking about doing Bumps To Coke.

• 1:40:27Speaker 00

  Contains multitudes.

• 1:40:28Speaker 03

  I'm gonna go with a song by an artist named Hannah Vu and it's called Care. And it is probably the song that I've listened to on repeat most this year. And like, I don't really have a lot to say about it, other than I just found it gorgeous and I've been really excited about her music for a while. And this also felt kind of like a leveling up.

• 1:40:58Speaker 03

  Yasi, I know you also liked some of her music. Did you, did you like this song?

• 1:41:02Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, I like this song. That's on my Yasi playlist. I think it's good.

• 1:41:05Speaker 03

  What's your song?

• 1:41:06Yasi Salek?

  I have two. I'm cheating. Two way tie. Kind of in the vein of you're talking about with Mannequin Pussy. Like, I feel like Alicia Bulley writes these like-

• 1:41:16Yasi Salek?

  Really compelling pop songs that I could hear being like a huge Miley Cyrus song. Do you know what I mean? Like, but you know, she kind of delivers them in her own way. And I love her voice and I love what she does. And the song is "Adam Bomb", which is like this just really moving sort of piano song that like, you know, her vocals kind of get ragged with emotion. And I just love this song. I think it's, I think it's incredible. I think it actually got kind of really slept on because it was a standalone song that just came out by itself, not attached to any album. But everybody should go listen to it. It's so fucking good.

• 1:41:58Yasi Salek?

  And the second one is a song called "Midas" by the band Wonderhorse, which is a British band. The, the whole album it came off of is really good. It's the titular track. It's just a good, fucking, solid, post punky rock song, like sort of, propulsive, catchy. It's awesome.

• 1:42:26Yasi Salek?

  It's a great song and you guys should listen to it. And I think Wonderhorse is gonna do cool stuff going forward.

• 1:42:32Speaker 03

  I was not aware of that song until you threw it out there.

• 1:42:35Yasi Salek?

  It's so good, right?

• 1:42:36Speaker 03

  It's really good. I put it on in the first, like, the first three notes. I'm like, here we go with some British shit. I could tell right, right away, and I meant that derogatory.

• 1:42:45Yasi Salek?

  Complimentary?

• 1:42:47Speaker 03

  But then by, by, by like 45 seconds in, I meant that very complimentary, right? Like, it just, it made very, it made a lot of sense immediately with your vibe. And I was like, and then I was like, ready to just be like, okay, she's like locked in to the Brit pop season. She's here, we're, we're doing this. This is just what, this is just what it is. And then by the time the first chorus hit, I'm like, this song fucking rips.

• 1:43:11Yasi Salek?

  It's like what you said, Rob, about like Fontaine's not kind of being in the lineage of the classic, like, rock of the UK, going from like The Who and The Jam and the, down to The Arctic Monkeys. This is in that family, in that lineage, like solidly. And I think it's really good.

• 1:43:28Speaker 00

  I, I would listen to an album called "Here We Go With Some British Shit", so fast.

• 1:43:32Yasi Salek?

  Here we go, some British shit.

• 1:43:37Yasi Salek?

  That's the hello and welcome to Bandsplain.

• 1:43:39Speaker 03

  This was lovely. What do you guys think my approval rating is after this episode?

• 1:43:43Yasi Salek?

  Justin, what other people think about us is none of our business. Have you not learned that?

• 1:43:48Speaker 00

  There we go. Get off the Reddit.

• 1:43:50Yasi Salek?

  I can teach you one thing. Yeah, we're sober off the Reddit. I know Justin's gonna go check the Reddit after this episode comes out.

• 1:43:57Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

• 1:43:59Yasi Salek?

  And you're gonna be like, what are they saying about me?

• 1:44:01Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no, no. Here's a rule of mine. I check the Reddit to see what they're saying about you guys. I do not check the Reddit to see what they're saying about me. What's good for thee is not good for me.

• 1:44:13Yasi Salek?

  Okay, well, on that note, it's been a beautiful pleasure having you guys. Thank you so much for coming on this pod. I had a fantastic time podding with you and reflecting upon the year 2024 in music. And you guys come back next year for a new episode of Bandsplain.

• 1:44:40Yasi Salek?

  If you liked what you heard today, subscribe for more episodes of Bandsplain. Our guests today were Justin Sales and Rob Harvilla. This episode was produced by Liz Sanchez and edited by Adrian Bridges with help from Justin Sales. Executive producers for Bandsplain are Gina Delvac and me, Yasi Selig. Our gorgeous and catchy theme song was composed and performed by Bethany Cosentino and Jennifer Clayman and graciously recorded by Carlos de la Carza in Los Angeles, California. Special thanks to our producer emeritus, producer Dylan, aka Dylan Tupper Rupert, and also Michael Hardman, Casey Simonson, Robert Adler, Leah Edwards, David McDonough, Dana Myerson, Jessica Hopper, and Dirty Martinis with Three Olives. Come back every Thursday for a new episode of Bandsplain on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.

• 1:45:30Speaker 03

  Shout out Adrian and producer Liz, who have to make the actual sausage once we give them this, yes.