EMO DRAFT with Patrick Flynn and Chris Ryan

A Bandsplain Emo Draft recorded live at Something In The Way Festival with Patrick Flynn (Have Heart, Fiddlehead, How Much Art) and The Ringer’s Chris Ryan. In front of a Boston crowd, they draft their picks for emo bands across the decades (yes, the ’90s get two picks), reveal emo origin stories, and get into the eternal question: which bands are actually emo? CREDITS:Host: Yasi Salek @yasisalekGuests: Patrick Flynn @patrickflynnx and Chris Ryan @chrisryan77Producer: Rob SundermannEditor: Adrian BridgesAdditional Production Supervision: Justin SaylesTheme Song: Bethany Cosentino Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

  The best part of waking up? A full cup of Folgers coffee and music on full blast.

• 0:56Speaker 01

  Shop Folgers instant coffee and more at your nearest retailer.

• 1:06Speaker 01

  What's with this band, anyway? I don't get it, can you please explain? Wait, like, fansplain? Never heard this band in my life. Oh, you haven't? I'd love that. Really? Why? Yeah, I love this song. Oh, I don't know that one. Fansplain, fansplain, fansplain. I really hate this band! Whatever, I'm their biggest fan. Fansplain, fansplain, fansplain, fansplain. Fansplain!

• 1:55Yasi Salek?

  What a polite crowd! What's up?

• 1:59Yasi Salek?

  I gotta say, I gotta say it. I gotta say it. Hello and welcome to Bands Plane. Boston, hi guys. It's really cold. It's nice though, I love it here.

• 2:15Speaker 03

  This is Yasi's first time in Massachusetts.

• 2:17Yasi Salek?

  That's right. What I'm, Chris and I are really having, I really feel like this should have been filmed for some sort of travel document show.

• 2:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:28Yasi Salek?

  We went to Anchovies, you guys been to Anchovies? Let's fucking go. I think that's the best place I've ever been in my life.

• 2:34Speaker 03

  Your sights, yeah. Great chicken tenders.

• 2:36Yasi Salek?

  We sit down immediately, they're like, here's a pint glass of dirty martini, the goo goo dolls is fucking blaring. I was like, okay, I'm never leaving here. I live, I live at Anchovies now, forward the mail. Well, you guys, thank you for coming out in the, um, what to you is probably an okay temperature and what to me feels medically unsafe.

• 2:58Speaker 03

  I think even the Boston people have been brought to their knees by this. So I really appreciate you guys coming out tonight.

• 3:03Yasi Salek?

  We'll try to make it worth your while. This is usually a show where I explain a cult band or an iconic artist. But today you guys were doing something a little different. Today's episode is an emo draft. Thank you so much to Something in the Way Fest for including us in their programming. We wanted to do something that was sort of, you know, inspired by.

• 3:27Speaker 03

  Spiritually connected to the programming of the festival.

• 3:29Yasi Salek?

  The programming of the festival, totally has some luminaries of the emo space and what did you call them? Some present day.

• 3:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, like, like they have some present day emo bands, they have members of bands that are in other bands that were, were in bands that we're gonna talk about tonight.

• 3:44Yasi Salek?

  And as you know, I love sports and I love drafting, so. You guys, you know who I am, I'm Yasi Salek, but I'm joined, as you also know, by my colleague from another mother, Christopher Ryan. Give it up for Christopher Ryan. Coming back to his college hometown of Boston with me to do this. And we will soon be joined by a special guest, but before we do that, we have a little special surprise for you. We have two weekend passes.

• 4:13Yasi Salek?

  Something in the Way Fest to give away. And we were thinking about how to do that, and then I was like, let's do trivia.

• 4:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:20Yasi Salek?

  And then Chris had like a really easy question and I was like, no.

• 4:22Speaker 03

  No, it wasn't that easy. It was actually, you didn't know the answer.

• 4:24Yasi Salek?

  I didn't know it, it's true, but that... But I don't know anything. The notes are not in front of me. I don't think you got... My brain is addled by taking in too much information. Um, should I do mine first?

• 4:34Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 4:35Yasi Salek?

  Okay, how do we want to do this? Like, how should we... Is this the first person that yells it out?

• 4:40Speaker 03

  Shout out the answer, and if you're right, uh, we'll give you passes.

• 4:43Yasi Salek?

  Okay, so the first one is, what was... Sunny Day Real Estate had multiple names before they landed on Sunny Day Real Estate. What was one of the names that was also a line from a Kurt Vonnegut book?

• 5:00Yasi Salek?

  I just... a hard one, I know, but wouldn't it...

• 5:03Yasi Salek?

  No. Ten for some grapes. No. Breakfast spot. Oh, no. Okay, you're right. It was too hard. It was too hard. I'll just tell you guys, because it's really good. It was "Everything Was Beautiful and Nothing Hurt." Okay, should we do yours?

• 5:17Speaker 03

  Sunny Day Real Estate, when they initially got back together after their first two albums, it was big, huge albums, and then they took a break. Their third album was called... There you go.

• 5:28Yasi Salek?

  Okay, winner!

• 5:29Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 5:31Yasi Salek?

  You guys should really listen to the Sunny Day episode of Bands Plan. There's a lot of really good information in there, such as that. Um, and then the second one is TV-related.

• 5:40Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, okay. This Something in the Way band garnered, maybe like mainstream acclaim or broke out, when their song was featured in what football movie?

• 5:54Yasi Salek?

  And what song is it?

• 5:56Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 5:57Yasi Salek?

  That's too easy.

• 6:00Speaker 03

  Well, not everybody here read Kurt Vonnegut. You know, we were too busy...

• 6:03Speaker 04

  I have two small kids. I won't be able to use them. Do a new question.

• 6:08Yasi Salek?

  What was the song? What was the...

• 6:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, what was the song? Who's it?

• 6:16Yasi Salek?

  This is, see-

• 6:17Speaker 03

  It was in the movie.

• 6:18Yasi Salek?

  When your questions are too easy, this is what happens. Fights break out. There's a riot.

• 6:23Speaker 03

  Was your hand in mine not featured in the motion picture soundtrack? No, I know, but like, was it in both? Oh.

• 6:32Yasi Salek?

  Alright, you guys, please help me welcome our special guest, the beating heart of Boston hardcore in 2026, of the bands Have Heart, Fiddlehead, and How Much Art, also known as Mr. Flynn in history class, Patrick Flynn.

• 7:00Speaker 05

  You old center seat, huh?

• 7:02Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, that's right.

• 7:03Speaker 03

  You have to middle.

• 7:03Yasi Salek?

  It's the hot seat.

• 7:04Speaker 03

  You're doing, you got the lanyard on and everything? We love this.

• 7:06Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. Legit.

• 7:10Yasi Salek?

  Welcome to Band's Plan.

• 7:11Speaker 05

  Thanks for having me.

• 7:12Yasi Salek?

  Patrick Flynn.

• 7:12Speaker 05

  I, uh, love the pod. I have a shitty commute, uh, every day, uh, twofold, and I get to laugh a lot. Uh, and, uh, I think I said this to you before, but you talk about music in a way that, um, uh, makes me wanna keep doing music. And whereas most people who talk about music on podcasts are typically like-

• 7:35Yasi Salek?

  You mean the men that talk about the vinyl that they're collecting in their basement? And they're like, "Well, actually, did you know that the guitar tone on this one was, um..." And I'm like, "I don't know what you're talking about."

• 7:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, thanks for having me.

• 7:47Yasi Salek?

  What pedals do you think he used?

• 7:49Speaker 05

  Thanks for having me. I'm, uh, I'm gonna do my best to, uh, talk about, uh, emotional music.

• 7:55Speaker 03

  So, when we asked you to do this specific, uh, episode, were you initially like, did you, were you repulsed by the idea?

• 8:02Speaker 05

  No.

• 8:03Speaker 03

  No, okay.

• 8:04Speaker 05

  No, no, I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I like, I like emo.

• 8:07Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 8:08Speaker 03

  But it's, it's still the scarlet E. I think people still like, feel weird about stepping forward and saying so.

• 8:13Speaker 05

  I, yeah, that, that's right.

• 8:17Speaker 05

  It's funny how it comes about. I heard, I always thought that it was Thrasher Magazine that was trying to like humiliate Ian McKay. But I heard, just like a couple of months ago, I didn't know this, but like Brian Baker claims himself to be like coming up with the moniker of emo core. As he was like listening to Rights of Spring or something like that. Which I thought was strange because like, he also wrote Can I Say?, which is pretty emotional music. I don't know why he would say that. So, I don't know exactly the genesis of it, but yeah, it seems like it's, it came up as an attempt to try and like emasculate like hardcore.

• 9:02Speaker 05

  Which I, which is strange, but I like how, I mean, it was kind of like, the thing I loved the most is what Ian McKay said, he's in an Embrace video. He's like, as if hardcore wasn't emotional enough. Right. That really spoke to me as a kid and I think that's where I was like, yeah, I'm into this, but like in the late 90s and the early 2000s, it wasn't Rights of Spring. It was like, the people listening to emo were all like in really good shape and they had very tight t-shirts. They had, they had relationships. And that wasn't like the vibe that I read in like the DC scene. Right.

• 9:46Speaker 05

  So, but I, you know, I always appreciated the kind of like, the sense of confidence that it kind of came from in the response to it being called emo core. So, you know, I'm not, I'm not like the bonehead hardcore kid who like thinks that there should be like a strict, like apartheid, like divide between the scenes. I think that it's, everyone who's ever talked to, they've always said that the best time in which they've been going to shows is when it's been like, you know, a very eclectic mix of bands. Yeah, we were just saying that backstage. Yeah. So, yeah, let's, let's go, let's start crying.

• 10:19Yasi Salek?

  Let's go. I love that. Is it, should I just deliver my, I should deliver my hot take up top?

• 10:26Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 10:27Yasi Salek?

  Um, and I'm sorry, tar and feather me in the town square. I think that emo music can only be made by men.

• 10:35Speaker 05

  Oh, wow.

• 10:36Yasi Salek?

  And I'll tell you, hear me out. I'll tell you why. I think it is a uniquely, um...

• 10:44Yasi Salek?

  Depraved and sort of like, I'll say it pathetic, but I love it. Display of emotion in that way. It's very much like, what a novel idea to have emotion and self-reflection that is truly only like, straight cis men can participate in. And that's why, this is a compliment to women.

• 11:06Speaker 03

  You're making direct eye contact with me while you're saying this. She also workshop this from like, leaving LAX to basically over Springfield, Missouri.

• 11:16Yasi Salek?

  I've been on record about this a couple of times and I've received some flak. It's like Rayner Maria with like a word and I'm like, I'm saying Rayner Maria is an excellent band and they're not doing that sort of needy and pathetic music. I'm so sorry.

• 11:30Speaker 03

  But they would be considered emo. Like there are caveat. There are like, there are basically like amendments to this.

• 11:35Yasi Salek?

  That's my hot take.

• 11:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:37Speaker 05

  That's hot take. I think the, I just, I think that as a scholar and a total student of fifth wave emo, which I didn't-

• 11:48Yasi Salek?

  Something I learned about yesterday.

• 11:49Speaker 05

  Which I definitely didn't look up 20 minutes ago while getting bobity. They would, they would probably challenge such a claim. It seems to be very much so rooting against that.

• 12:01Yasi Salek?

  Sure, it's true. It's giving boomer when I say that. You're right. Well, we're gonna do a draft.

• 12:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:09Yasi Salek?

  I'll tell you the guys, the categories and then Chris will explain the rules of said draft. The categories are 80s, 90s parentheses midwestern, 90s parentheses other, 21st century and things that are spiritually emo.

• 12:28Speaker 03

  So these could be objects, movies, scenes from movies, TV shows, what have you.

• 12:34Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, it could be other bands even.

• 12:35Speaker 03

  Like a leaf turning colors, you know? Not to give away my pick.

• 12:39Yasi Salek?

  I know. You're like, what? Just put it out on Front Street then. And Chris, how do drafts work?

• 12:44Speaker 03

  Most people do know how to drafts work. It's like your fake naive day about it is-

• 12:50Yasi Salek?

  I know how it works. I just want to make sure that everyone here understands.

• 12:52Speaker 03

  So basically we'll pick an order in which we're gonna draft in. We are, we've decided we're gonna do artists instead of albums and we'll just talk about some albums, even though there was some conversation about that. We'll do it in snake order. So whoever picks third, we'll pick first in the second round. And then at the end, we'll judge this based on your applause.

• 13:12Yasi Salek?

  Okay, and before we get started, I do would like to go around in a little circle and talk about your entry point into the world of emo music, your personal history. Okay. Yeah. Should I not look at you? It's a good. Guess first. Yeah, Patrick Lynn first.

• 13:27Speaker 05

  My intro to emo music? I don't think I've ever told this story publicly. It's a good one, folks. It's very emo. I loved middle school, loved history in middle school. I had this great teacher, Mr. Hall, taught history as if it was like a problem to solve. And then I got to fucking high school and it was just like a lecture and I fell out of love with learning and I started getting bad grades and I was like, I'm stupid. And at the time, I was listening to The Embrace, self-titled, and I remember I got like my

• 14:11Speaker 05

  eighth like F in a row in my, it must have been my sophomore year of high school. And I had my headphones, I think James Whittle, who now lives in Japan, had loaned me his, you know, recorded tape copy of The Embrace, self-titled, which I had in my Walkman and I had my headphones and I went into, I went into the bathroom and I'm pretty sure I just, I was like, I'm dumb, like I'm just a dumb person, that's it. And I went to the bathroom, cried my eyes out while listening to "Building" by Embrace, where the chorus is, "I'm a failure, failure." I was in the bathroom stall, just being like, woo.

• 14:55Speaker 05

  So that was like, that was when I was like, I think I'm not just a hardcore kid.

• 15:00Yasi Salek?

  Damn, that's so good. I don't think I can top that.

• 15:03Speaker 05

  So, and that's when I was like, I'm embracing that. But again, I just remember.

• 15:09Speaker 05

  Like the kids in the emo scene, like they just were better at talking than me. And, uh, and so like, I just was like, like they had like, they were in better shape than me. You know, they just had like, they wore a size small t-shirts. And again, that's a theme for me right here. And it just sort of, I just couldn't connect with them. So I just kind of always felt.

• 15:31Speaker 03

  Would you check the back of their t-shirt to see what size it was before you decided to be friends with them?

• 15:36Speaker 05

  Didn't have to. These were small guys. And, uh, but so like that, that, and I see them. And there was like mostly the time in which like, uh, Saves the Day, Get Up Kids were kind of like really popping off. And there was such like a better like, like, like, kind of like, like indie movie aesthetic to all their record covers. And it was just so foreign from like the live pic, jump shot of the hardcore scene. And I liked it all because I, you know, but, uh, there was just something that wasn't a, I, I was looking at it from the outside, but knowing that I probably should be on the inside. I just needed to like lose weight so I could fit into small t-shirts or something. But anyway, that, that's my, that's like, kind of like my origin story of it.

• 16:20Speaker 05

  And then in the late nineties, I was watching it pop off.

• 16:24Speaker 03

  Uh, similar time period, uh, not a dissimilar story, but it was coming into it more through indie rock. So when I was like in high school and right out of college, I was mostly listening to like Pavement and Arches of Loaf and stuff like that, uh, which I loved and still love to this day. But, uh, didn't even really even think to myself that I was like craving something different. But when I moved here, uh, a guy who I met in a class, this guy Steve, who's here tonight. I saw him one day wearing a Pavement t-shirt. I can't remember the order of this, but one day he was wearing a Pavement t-shirt. So I was like, that guy looks like he could be my friend. And then another day he was wearing a Texas is the Reason t-shirt. I was like, I don't know what that is. And I think in talking to Steve.

• 17:07Speaker 03

  It wasn't even like he was like, "Are you emo?" But he was like, "There are all these other bands." Like, some of them were playing at his house up in Mission Hill. Some of them we could just go see at the Rad or at Middle East or whatever. And I just got introduced to all these bands, some of which would probably reject being described as emo, like The Van Pelt or Karate or whatever. And some, I think, would fully embrace it, or at least fully knew, like Braid or Get Up Kids. And it was like a whole new world. And Josh jumped in. I made sure I had small t-shirts and great relationships, you know? And...

• 17:39Yasi Salek?

  You guys are forgetting about the really tight jeans that traumatized all the girlfriends. Because you'd be like, "Oh, I'll just wear your pants today." And you're like, "Well, no, I sure won't. That's not zipping up." And then you kind of want to KOYS, you know?

• 17:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, but they accepted my application and I was jumped in.

• 17:54Yasi Salek?

  They took you in. My story is like a little darker. You guys, this is the year 2000. I want you to picture UC Santa Barbara, young Yasi. She's wearing her Diesel jeans. So thrilled to be living in the dorms. Okay, maybe I wasn't romantically successful in high school. That's okay, babe. They don't know me here. I'm new, okay? I've developed a light eating disorder. I'm a little skinny. Let's fucking go. We meet a guy in the dorms, Tropicana Gardens. Wish to God I could remember his full name so I could dox him, but unfortunately I don't remember his first name. It was Josh.

• 18:32Yasi Salek?

  I think he was from the East Coast, actually.

• 18:34Speaker 03

  That narrows it down. We can get him.

• 18:36Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, Josh from the East Coast.

• 18:38Speaker 03

  I'll put my guys to work on it.

• 18:39Yasi Salek?

  We gotta find him. He and I had a little flirtation. Invites me to his dorm room. Turns me on to the Get Up Kids. Gorgeous, wonderful.

• 18:50Speaker 03

  Is this like something to write home about? Or are we on a wire already?

• 18:53Yasi Salek?

  No, this is 2000, so something to write home about. Could come out the year before. And then we hooked up. And then he was like, "Don't tell anyone."

• 19:02Speaker 05

  He's not an emo kid.

• 19:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:04Speaker 05

  That's not a true emo kid.

• 19:06Yasi Salek?

  And I'm fine.

• 19:06Speaker 03

  An emo kid would be like, tell everyone.

• 19:09Yasi Salek?

  Well, that's the thing. He wasn't. He was like, kind of like a preppy, like, popular guy. So I don't really know how he found it. Like, he was like, I was like, this mu- like, I'm taking this from you because you don't deserve this. But fuck Josh, is what I'm saying. It's on site for him. That's all. But I love the Get Up Kids. So I guess I kind of want, I mean, it took years of therapy to undo that, but.

• 19:33Speaker 03

  Do you think Josh is a big bands playing listener?

• 19:35Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, I hope he fucking cries to it every night. The one that got away. She's a mid-range podcaster. He probably is a sports guy and he was like, I love Bill Simmons. And he's like, wait a minute, that girl looks familiar. Um, we didn't do our TLDR about emo. Do we need to do that? Everyone who understands emo.

• 19:54Speaker 03

  Give it a little bit of a TL.

• 19:55Yasi Salek?

  Okay, you guys, as you know, it's a movement started within Washington DC. I thought it was cool because it, according to Wikipedia, which I don't know if this is right or wrong, but they sort of credit Amy Pickering with conceptualizing it in general because she was, she worked at Discord and she was kind of like pissed off about the sort of more macho, like exclusionary direction that hardcore was going in and was trying to like encourage the bands to like maybe not be so toxic masculinity. Um, but yeah, so the first bands were like Beef Eater, Rites of Spring, right? Um, Dag Nasty, Embraces,

• 20:39Yasi Salek?

  you talked about, Gray Matter. Should we quote your pal Andy Greenwald? Sure. He said, "The origins of the term emo are shrouded in a mystery, but at first came into common practice in 1985. If Minor Threat was hardcore, then Rites of Spring, with its altered focus, was emotional hardcore or emo-core." Once again, I love that they were like, a little self-reflection. They're like, whole new genre, you guys. This is so different. Introspection. And that's it.

• 21:09Speaker 03

  We just need one name. To go to decide which the order is. So why don't you guys just shout out the first name of the three people here that you see? That's what I thought. So Yasi, you can go first. Pac can go second. I'll go third and I'll do the turn. So I'll pick twice. It's a lot of pressure on you.

• 21:28Yasi Salek?

  First is hard.

• 21:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:30Speaker 05

  And the categories are 80s.

• 21:34Yasi Salek?

  90s, parentheses Midwest.

• 21:36Speaker 05

  Midwest, right?

• 21:37Yasi Salek?

  90s, parentheses, other.

• 21:38Speaker 05

  Other. 21st century.

• 21:40Yasi Salek?

  21st century, just broadly.

• 21:42Speaker 05

  Great. And then like a sweater, like something that is spiritually.

• 21:47Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, purple, American apparel, zip up sweatshirt.

• 21:53Yasi Salek?

  You guys, this is really hard. I'm gonna go 90s, other. And I'm gonna go sunny day real estate. Let's fucking go. Cause you know what we're talking about? God. We're emo and we're talking about God.

• 22:08Yasi Salek?

  Was I supposed to riff a little more about sunny day real estate while I stand up?

• 22:10Speaker 03

  Did you get into sunny day upon diary and upon like seven being like an MTV thing? Or was it more?

• 22:19Yasi Salek?

  Yes, but I didn't know that that was called emo. You know what I mean? Like, I just knew that this was like, it was alternative music.

• 22:25Speaker 03

  I think I remember that as like a alt nation 120 minutes thing.

• 22:30Yasi Salek?

  Did it go like a cross?

• 22:32Speaker 03

  Sure. And then the Pink Album, LP2, kind of took on this like mythical status among my cohort, which maybe it didn't even have mythical status at all. We were just a little bit confused.

• 22:47Speaker 05

  I got a quick question about sunny day.

• 22:51Yasi Salek?

  Yeah. You want us to explain sunny day?

• 22:53Speaker 05

  Just in terms of the genre, like, I perceive them as like a 90s alt band.

• 23:00Speaker 03

  I think we're gonna have a lot of this today.

• 23:03Speaker 05

  So like, was that label applied like after?

• 23:07Speaker 03

  I think it will maybe because they were like a band out of Seattle, right? Did they have like any like hardcore roots per se?

• 23:13Yasi Salek?

  No.

• 23:14Speaker 05

  They got, Maitland Dell was in this, was in Brotherhood, great Seattle straight edge band.

• 23:19Yasi Salek?

  Oh, yeah. And they had, I think when I was trying to pull my trivia out, they were in like, they were all in a bunch of other bands in Seattle.

• 23:26Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 23:27Yasi Salek?

  Is it not emo?

• 23:29Speaker 03

  No, it totally is.

• 23:30Yasi Salek?

  You guys, what do you think?

• 23:31Speaker 05

  It 100, it is. I just like, I was just curious, like, because I like the, I, my perception was like emo, the term, like, it maybe died in the night? I don't, I don't know, like in the early 90s, but I just feel like in the late 90s, it becomes like, that's a whole scene. And it was just kind of floating here and there.

• 23:53Speaker 03

  There was also like a weird moment in that, at the end of that sort of burst, I don't know what wave it was, but like Get Up Kid Saves the Day, all these bands, and then they all almost simultaneously start doing other kinds of music very self-consciously to like, kind of separate themselves from it. And so that was what I remember right when I was leaving Boston, that was kind of happening. And that was like, everybody would kind of liked Wilco and like, we're kind of trying to sound like it, you know? And shout out to the Wilco, but.

• 24:21Yasi Salek?

  No, but it is a good point. It was kind of like a dead.

• 24:23Speaker 03

  Like, don't call me emo, man. That was the, that was the vibe.

• 24:26Speaker 05

  Well, that's the thing that, so my brother and sister loved really good music. They were older than me. My, my brother, you know, saw Nirvana happen and then became an obsessive compulsive student of everything associated with, like, he was like, that's cool. Nirvana's cool, but you know, Scratch Acid is even cooler. That's like where my, my, my brother was. And my sister, like, she was introducing me to Arsh's Loaf and Yola Tango's Painful Record. And like, she went on this trip to France and came back with, If You're Feeling Sinister. So they, they were like, fucking cool. And like, that was the kind of thing about like,

• 25:10Speaker 05

  the emo scene is that like, it wasn't indie. And so like, in my perception of it, that was one more reason. Because like, it was, this is the late 90s. This is before I really kind of, really knew that like, what was happening in the middle of the 80s was, was emo. But my, my sense was like, emo is like, well played, not as embarrassing pop punk. Like that, like Saves the Day was a very, much so like, that's the emo scene.

• 25:40Yasi Salek?

  Right. See, I guess like. It is interesting because like the 90s do seem like a bit of a dead, especially the first half of the 90s, like a dead space for like any bands that were considered or called emo. And then you go to midwestern emo and you're like, okay, Patient Zero is Victor Villarreal, you know, Captain Jazz. And these bands are not commercial at all. They're not really pop punk. Nobody really hears them, you know? And that's later, right? That's like late 90s. So it is sort of like going back in labeling, but then to my ear now, like I can't believe I listened to Sunny Day amongst like Archers of Loaf and Pavement and was like, yeah, alt-rock,

• 26:21Yasi Salek?

  where it sounds so fucking different, you know? Like, it's such a completely left of center, even for indie and like weird pavement shit, that like you're like, what is it? What is this music?

• 26:35Speaker 03

  And then by that second record and into his solo record, they like become proggy and kind of post, like they're doing like math rock stuff.

• 26:42Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, I mean, fucking goat.

• 26:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:45Speaker 05

  What do you think like Steve Malcolm has thought of the emo scene? He seems like a kind of a snobby prick.

• 26:52Speaker 03

  Kind of bet $15 that he has no idea.

• 26:54Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, I'm gonna say, once again, Don Draper. I mean, I don't think about you at all. I know where that happened.

• 27:00Speaker 03

  I'm sure he's like randomly played with a couple of those bands, but I can't imagine that he's like, yeah, get up, kids.

• 27:06Speaker 05

  What about the tall Archers of Loaf guy? What's his name?

• 27:11Speaker 03

  Eric Bachman.

• 27:12Speaker 05

  Eric Bachman. I wonder what he thinks of the emo scene.

• 27:15Speaker 03

  I bet he digs it. I also bet he hears a lot of Archers of Loaf in there.

• 27:18Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of that in there.

• 27:21Yasi Salek?

  I hear a lot of Archers of Loaf in modern day hardcore and I'm always saying it.

• 27:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure. What about, you're up.

• 27:29Yasi Salek?

  I'm on.

• 27:30Speaker 05

  Yeah, okay. Sunny Day off the table. I'm envisioning that like my pick is like, this is my world. Like this is the only, like what I pick is.

• 27:42Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 27:43Speaker 05

  You can come to Pat's world.

• 27:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:45Yasi Salek?

  In Pat's world, these are the only five bands.

• 27:48Speaker 05

  In Pat's world, these are the only emo bands that exist. I did say to my buddy Darren that if Rights of Spring is off the table.

• 27:58Speaker 05

  Before I can pick it, then I'm leaving immediately. So I'm just gonna secure my presence here. I'm gonna go with Rights of Spring.

• 28:05Yasi Salek?

  Good.

• 28:06Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 28:06Yasi Salek?

  Good, solid.

• 28:07Speaker 05

  Yeah, and in my world.

• 28:08Yasi Salek?

  Safe.

• 28:10Speaker 05

  And in my world, you can come see Rights of Spring. They play.

• 28:14Yasi Salek?

  They're, they're active.

• 28:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 28:16Yasi Salek?

  They're, they're out here. Ghee is out here, just fucking. That's a, that's a really good pick. What do you like about Rights of Spring?

• 28:23Speaker 05

  The first song I heard by then was For Want Of. And then I loved the song Dancing With Myself.

• 28:32Yasi Salek?

  Such a fucking god tier banger.

• 28:35Speaker 05

  But if you listen to Dancing With Myself and then you listen to For Want Of, that's the same fucking riff.

• 28:43Speaker 05

  Just kind of sped up. You're like, really? Go and listen to it. And I loved it. And I,

• 28:48Yasi Salek?

  Damn, now Billy Idol gonna come back for some, for some Discord royalties.

• 28:53Speaker 05

  Yeah, so I, I just, I loved that. It kind of bridged a little gap for me. But there wasn't like, as I was like, becoming a student of like, the eighties, it just, there wasn't, there, I couldn't find a single other song that had anybody from like, a hardcore band, you know, just playing a riff like that. And, and then there's also like, the,

• 29:17Speaker 05

  like Drink Deep, like every fucking one of their songs, it, it, it's all over the place. And it's rough. It's also kind of like scary at times. End on, I remember hearing End On End for the first time. And I just thought that this was just like, the most like epic way to end a record since Only In Dreams by Weezer. I was just like, but like hardcore wise.

• 29:41Yasi Salek?

  Let's go Blue Album High.

• 29:43Speaker 03

  Were you ever, was there ever any internal debate, since You Embrace was like this formative record for you, of being an Embrace or a Rights of Spring fan? Like, was it an either or ever?

• 29:54Speaker 05

  Oh, I had like a, a pretty intense argument with Patrick Kinlan from Drug Church and Self Defense Family.

• 30:00Yasi Salek?

  Fellow podcaster?

• 30:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, fellow podcaster. And I wanted to fight him because of what he said to me.

• 30:09Speaker 05

  And I'm basically team Embrace. And he said something so offensive, he was like, "The person who takes Embrace over Rights Spring is the person who doesn't understand music." And I was like, "Oh, that's not insulting, you fucking asshole." And his explanation, it sucked. I didn't find it very convincing.

• 30:34Yasi Salek?

  But then you didn't just draft Embrace.

• 30:37Speaker 05

  I know. I'm being a little careful here.

• 30:40Yasi Salek?

  Okay. If you don't want Patrick to listen to this and think that you chose the wrong band.

• 30:45Speaker 05

  No, no, he can go fuck himself. But they're OG. They're, you know, ground zero. You know, so I think that that's a big deal. I mean, you can come see the first emo band in my world.

• 30:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, I love that. They're headlining. Um, okay.

• 31:02Yasi Salek?

  Chris Ryan, let's go. Two picks.

• 31:04Speaker 03

  90s, Midwestern. I'll do Promise Ring.

• 31:09Yasi Salek?

  Delaware, are you aware, is this thing on? I've been wanting to do that this whole day.

• 31:15Speaker 03

  How much Promise Ring are you gonna sing while I write this down?

• 31:18Yasi Salek?

  Um, that's really, that was kind of my, that was my bit. You don't, you wanna do any other Promise Ring?

• 31:24Speaker 05

  You want me to sing Promise Ring?

• 31:28Speaker 05

  They spoke to me as like, very emo when I had like come across them. I mean, the name is, is a pretty emo band name.

• 31:38Yasi Salek?

  I thought it was, I literally kind of was a little confused and thought they were Christian. Well, just because Sunny Day was kind of Christian, you know, like, and later kind of more really Christian. And that would be a great category for a later draft, like bands that are spiritually.

• 31:53Speaker 03

  Spiritually Christian.

• 31:54Yasi Salek?

  Or whatever, that I feel Christian but are not, you know? Yeah. Um, damn, what a good.

• 32:02Speaker 03

  This is a band, I think. Trying to remember exactly whether or not I did hear 30 Degrees Everywhere first, or if I heard Nothing Feels Good first and went back to 30 Degrees Everywhere. 30 Degrees Everywhere, I think weirdly I prefer something, like I'm in a 30 Degrees Everywhere era, I suppose, even though that record is one of the most strangely-recorded records that I know. It's just basically snare. There was an apocryphal, probably, rumor that the engineer, Brad Wood, had blown his hearing out recording Tortoise, and couldn't really tell, like, what was going on, and was just like, "Sounds good, guys!"

• 32:42Yasi Salek?

  Shout out to Hollis's dad.

• 32:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I don't know if that's true, but I love these guys. And I remember, one of the things I liked about them was the lyrics were, like, relatively opaque. They weren't as direct as I think we probably associate emo lyricism with. It was like a lot of, like, cut-up, E. E. Cummings-style poetry stuff, and it was really good.

• 33:04Yasi Salek?

  David Von Bollin, babe. Can I just say, I do feel that if you could draft Davy Von Bollin, that would be like the number-one draft pick of this entire thing.

• 33:13Speaker 03

  Who's to say I'm not drafting him spiritually?

• 33:16Yasi Salek?

  But just like, you know, from Cap'n Jack, like, he's really, like, been in it.

• 33:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:22Yasi Salek?

  He's been about this life.

• 33:24Speaker 03

  And then for my other pick, I'll do 90s, not Midwest, 90s other, and I'll take Jimmy Eat World.

• 33:33Speaker 05

  Great, great episode, listeners.

• 33:35Speaker 03

  Yeah. That was my favorite dance play that we've done together.

• 33:40Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, mine too.

• 33:41Speaker 03

  You could say Jimmy Eat World were available for the 21st century, since their recording career went into the 21st century, obviously. But Clarity's my favorite record by them, and that's 99, what year is it, 98?

• 33:57Yasi Salek?

  We just did this.

• 33:59Speaker 03

  And I kind of like Static Revills, their first record, too, so I'll take them in 90s.

• 34:05Yasi Salek?

  Also, more David Von Bollin, CPA, future. He's everywhere, babe.

• 34:11Speaker 05

  I have a little Clarity story to share that I've never told the public before.

• 34:20Speaker 05

  Pat Flynn tells all.

• 34:21Speaker 03

  We're getting so many confessions.

• 34:23Speaker 05

  I've been saving them for this.

• 34:25Yasi Salek?

  You don't like sit the class down and you're like, okay, we're gonna get into World War II in just a second, but I need to talk to you guys about Jimmy, World's Clarity real quick.

• 34:33Speaker 05

  This song's called Lucky Denver.

• 34:37Speaker 05

  I'm gonna start big.

• 34:40Speaker 05

  There's this football team called the New England Patriots.

• 34:45Speaker 05

  Some of you are probably wondering, why the fuck are you talking about them? But there's this famous game played by this new quarterback by the name of Tom Brady. It was called the Snow Bowl. You ever heard of it?

• 35:00Speaker 05

  At bits.

• 35:02Speaker 05

  Where am I going? I'm gonna bring you there.

• 35:06Speaker 05

  So I was at my girlfriend at the time's house, who is now also my wife and the mother of my children.

• 35:15Speaker 05

  And it was snowing a lot. And I had just bought Clarity that day before I went to her house. And what's the the famous "Snow Keeps Falling" song? You know, you know what I'm talking about? It's on Clarity.

• 35:32Speaker 03

  Blister?

• 35:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, blister. Yeah.

• 35:34Yasi Salek?

  Gorgeous.

• 35:35Speaker 05

  That song is so wonderful, but we had like the, instead of watching the Snow Bowl, which was live on TV, we were out in the snow under like a nice, beautiful kind of street light, just hanging out in the snow. And, you know, when my mom picked me up the next day, put in Clarity on the CD player and that song came right on and it's just been locked into the old dome here for a wonderful life memory.

• 36:04Yasi Salek?

  This is, that was a pretty emo story.

• 36:06Speaker 05

  That's why I'm wrong.

• 36:08Yasi Salek?

  The snow is falling.

• 36:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, it was great.

• 36:10Yasi Salek?

  My now-wife with our two beautiful children.

• 36:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, so I took that over the Patriots because sports suck and music is way better.

• 36:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was wondering if maybe you'd gone back and watched the Snow Bowl. It's a pretty good game.

• 36:21Speaker 05

  No, it was emo time in the snow with my future wife.

• 36:26Yasi Salek?

  Does it go back to Pat?

• 36:28Speaker 03

  It goes back to Pat now.

• 36:29Speaker 05

  Oh, okay. So next category.

• 36:31Yasi Salek?

  Don't take my, don't take my choice. Just read my mind and know what it is and don't take it.

• 36:36Speaker 05

  I'm just gonna take Captain Jazz.

• 36:38Yasi Salek?

  Okay, great. It wasn't that. Nineties Midwest.

• 36:41Speaker 05

  Nineties Midwestern.

• 36:43Yasi Salek?

  Let's go Kinsella Brothers.

• 36:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, big, big, big fan. I think that-

• 36:49Yasi Salek?

  Can you say the entire album name?

• 36:52Speaker 05

  An Alphabatology. Is that for, something like that?

• 36:56Yasi Salek?

  I can't say it without my thing either. Okay, here it is. Burritos, Inspiration Point, Fork Balloon Sports, Cards in the Spokes, Automatic Biographies, Kites, Kung-Fu, Trophies, Banana Peels We've Slipped On, and Eggshells We've Tippy-Toed Over.

• 37:08Speaker 05

  That's right. That's not it.

• 37:09Yasi Salek?

  Full album title.

• 37:12Speaker 05

  I do think that Little League is the greatest emo song ever written. I don't think that there's a single better one than that. I hope, I have this playlist that I've told my wife to play if I ever go into like, you know, I'm like, you know, a vegetable, and just, and the first song on it is Little League. I want to play it at my fucking funeral. It is, it's just like the most perfect song of all time, I think.

• 37:38Speaker 03

  Can I ask what some of the other Koma playlist songs are?

• 37:42Speaker 05

  Yeah, I got, I got Street Hassle by Lou Reed. It's a long and durge. I've usually played on the jukebox in restaurants that have the digital jukeboxes.

• 37:54Speaker 03

  Just deflects a little bit.

• 37:56Speaker 05

  Yeah. I got Born Slippy by Underworld. That's, that's on there.

• 38:00Yasi Salek?

  Oh, yeah. Hell, yeah.

• 38:01Speaker 05

  That one's on there. Yeah, that, that gives you a little taste of, it's called the Deathbed Playlist. She knows to, she knows to pull it out, play it from-

• 38:10Speaker 03

  Edgar Sandman's not on there? Like, nothing, like, dark, like, that's-

• 38:14Speaker 05

  Fade to black, definitely. That's in there.

• 38:18Yasi Salek?

  So Victor Villarreal took classical guitar lessons as a kid, and according to-

• 38:27Yasi Salek?

  Is it Steve Holmes who plays? Yeah, he thinks that his guitar teacher should get credit for inventing all of Midwestern emo because taught him the open C tuning.

• 38:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:38Yasi Salek?

  That was essentially, eventually also stolen by American football and kind of created that sound. That was interesting.

• 38:44Speaker 03

  That's the tuning where you just like, you can just strum it and then everything sounds good. This feels like a cheat code.

• 38:50Yasi Salek?

  When he did it, it was E A C G C E. And then Steve added the F on the low E string. I'm literally, it's like I'm reading absolute Russian here. I have no idea what the fuck I'm saying, but maybe some of you guitar centerheads will get that.

• 39:06Speaker 03

  It is true like that. You can draw a straight line from that guitar sound through Get Up Kids and stuff like that.

• 39:12Yasi Salek?

  Speaking of.

• 39:13Speaker 03

  You gonna go for it?

• 39:14Yasi Salek?

  Time for me to draft emo.

• 39:17Speaker 03

  Are you gonna sing Masked Pike for everybody or?

• 39:21Yasi Salek?

  God, there's, you'll be accepting my apology for taking things too seriously. Sometimes I think I'm childish enough.

• 39:33Speaker 03

  While she's writing.

• 39:34Yasi Salek?

  Missing me, I'm missing you. I'm drafting Get Up Kids for 90s Midwestern. I, that, I like both Four Minute Mile, obviously, and Something to Write Home About, but it's just something really fucking special about Something to Write Home About for me. The, the album art?

• 39:54Speaker 03

  Yeah. Is that the one with the running socks or?

• 39:58Yasi Salek?

  The album art is the, the robot and right now the artist is totally escaping me and I know him, motherfucker.

• 40:06Speaker 03

  I have a fun story about Four Minute Mile, actually. Can I just share it real quick?

• 40:10Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 40:11Speaker 03

  When I was an exchange student in Ireland in the late 90s, I, we had like a homestay to like start the experience and it was like a village outside of Dublin, like, I don't know, 45 minutes. And I, you know, I have my CD booklet and I played, um, Four Minute Mile for, uh, like the teenage girl, I think, who was like the daughter of the family. I don't know how I did this or if I like let it happen, but basically like there was like an assumption that this was my dance and I let them kind of go with it for a while. Like, and I, and when I say a while, I mean now 27 years. So I was just like, yeah, this, and they were like, this is your bond. And I was like.

• 40:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, it's like the band that I brought with me to America in my CD case, but like I didn't say that part. And so there's somewhere out there, there's an Irish girl is just like, I know that lad in the Get Up Kids.

• 41:06Speaker 05

  I thought you were gonna say you you brought second wave emo to Ireland.

• 41:09Yasi Salek?

  To Ireland.

• 41:10Speaker 03

  I kinda did though, yeah, I mean.

• 41:12Yasi Salek?

  Um, my good Get Up Kids story is, cause like, this type of emo was not talked about. Like, it wasn't like, I'm just like, it wasn't like on MTV, you know what I mean? Like, by that time, it's like, either you were like into that or you weren't into that. So it wasn't like, also like, I don't know what the fuck they looked like. You know what I mean? Like, you didn't, there wasn't a lot of media about these bands.

• 41:35Speaker 03

  Oh, I see what you mean.

• 41:36Yasi Salek?

  It's like, you're not like, right? Like, I mean, I'm sure they were like covered in like a spin here and there, but like, I had no idea what they looked like. And years later, this is maybe like, this is maybe 10 years ago. I'm at some festival outside of LA, it's like the Black Lips were playing or something, and I'm backstage. I'm quite drunk. And I'm talking, I'm just like struck up a comment, as you do when you're quite drunk. You know, just like some guy in a suit. And we're just chit chatting and smoking, or somehow like, emo music comes up, and I was like, yeah, but you don't even, you don't even fuck with the Get Up Kids. Like, I fuck with the Get Up Kids. He was like, I was, I was in that band. It was Rob Pope, the bassist of the Get Up Kids. He was there playing with Spoon. And I was like, what? And he was like, yeah. And then we hugged.

• 42:19Yasi Salek?

  He was like so excited, like that was the thing I pulled out, cause he was got to be like, that's my band, I was in that band. And I was like, that's so cool. This is a special moment for me.

• 42:28Speaker 05

  I, I, um, I don't like the Get Up Kids.

• 42:32Speaker 03

  That's okay.

• 42:34Speaker 05

  I don't dislike them, uh, but they were like.

• 42:38Yasi Salek?

  Wow.

• 42:40Speaker 05

  No, I, I respect people that like them. I don't.

• 42:44Yasi Salek?

  You guys, things are going a little south here, I'm saying.

• 42:47Speaker 03

  This contention's good.

• 42:48Yasi Salek?

  A little tension has happened.

• 42:49Speaker 03

  We're all just high fiving each other for picks.

• 42:51Yasi Salek?

  What if, what if I was like, okay, now I'm bringing out Matt Prior?

• 42:56Yasi Salek?

  Friend of the pod, we like that.

• 42:57Speaker 05

  I was pretty intensely straight edge and hardcore when I had discovered them. And it was kind of like, you know, it was like, you don't hang out with them around 1999, those kids.

• 43:11Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 43:11Speaker 05

  And you don't, you're gonna be picking a side if you like the Get Up Kids. And I also thought that they were from Massachusetts.

• 43:20Yasi Salek?

  Well, they had a lot of Massachusetts iconography in their songs.

• 43:23Speaker 05

  Was he in love with somebody from Massachusetts?

• 43:25Yasi Salek?

  I think he was. I think he had like a long distance relationship with somebody from Massachusetts.

• 43:30Speaker 05

  I'll give him a shot.

• 43:31Yasi Salek?

  That I should stare at receivers to receive her isn't fair?

• 43:37Speaker 05

  It's a little much.

• 43:38Yasi Salek?

  That is Shakespeare.

• 43:40Speaker 05

  I'm gonna, I'm gonna give him a shot. I'm not a hater.

• 43:44Yasi Salek?

  I'm personally hurt by this. I'm gonna need you to revisit something to write home about.

• 43:49Speaker 05

  I will, I will, I will do that.

• 43:51Yasi Salek?

  He does have the vocal tonality that I think is really.

• 43:55Speaker 03

  Heavily associated.

• 43:56Yasi Salek?

  Heavily associated with this genre, for better or for worse. I like it, but I do think it's been overused subsequently. When he was doing it, that was like, you know, that was some new shit.

• 44:10Speaker 05

  He was super chunky.

• 44:11Yasi Salek?

  Very much fucking super chunky.

• 44:14Speaker 05

  I wonder what Superchunk thought of Get Up Kids.

• 44:17Yasi Salek?

  I bet that should be your podcast. Backstage Pat was pitching us podcasts. Your podcast should just be you bring on 90s, like, sort of like indie rock bands and then ask them, what did you think about the Get Up Kids?

• 44:32Speaker 03

  Cat power. What did you think?

• 44:34Yasi Salek?

  It's like Subway takes. It's just, it's a five minute song. You just get this like quick two band reaction and then you're like, alright.

• 44:40Speaker 05

  I think it'd be a good pod.

• 44:42Yasi Salek?

  I agree.

• 44:42Speaker 03

  Seeing them in the 90s was the first time that I was like, oh, A, like, it was like the, one of the first bands that I saw who were all like, they had a uniform, like, they kind of were like, dressed like the outsiders.

• 44:54Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 44:54Speaker 03

  And they had like stage moves, kind of quasi-choreographed, not even in a bad way, but just like they were, they had thought about it. And it was the first time I was like, oh, I think these guys are like trying to be big. You know what I mean?

• 45:05Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 45:06Speaker 03

  Like, Get Up Kids and Bray were the ones where I was like.

• 45:09Yasi Salek?

  Don't you kind of feel like?

• 45:10Speaker 05

  Bray was trying to get big?

• 45:11Speaker 03

  Kind of. Yeah, because they had like, Bray like had moves. Like Bray was like.

• 45:15Speaker 05

  Really? I never saw them.

• 45:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:17Yasi Salek?

  I feel like if they had come out either much earlier or much later, they would have been big. They just hit a dead spot.

• 45:24Speaker 03

  Get Up Kids?

• 45:25Yasi Salek?

  And Braid, maybe.

• 45:26Speaker 03

  Well, Get Up Kids are, I mean, I just saw them play, like, they opened for Jawbreaker and House of Blues in Anaheim.

• 45:32Yasi Salek?

  That's big to you?

• 45:33Speaker 03

  Well, they're still touring.

• 45:35Yasi Salek?

  My Chemical Romance has sold out Dodger Stadium.

• 45:40Yasi Salek?

  I think Matt Pryor would have liked to perhaps hit a different level.

• 45:43Speaker 03

  You may have a point. You may have a point.

• 45:49Speaker 00

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• 46:19Speaker 01

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• 46:45Speaker 01

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• 46:50Yasi Salek?

  Any other bands that I like that you hate, Pat, while we're on the subject? Okay, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna do 80's Goats. We, that was 80's parentheses, Goats.

• 47:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:01Yasi Salek?

  I'm gonna do Moss Icon. Even though I do, I fucking love, I forgot how much I loved Moss Icon until I was like, were you admitting for this?

• 47:08Speaker 03

  Can I just say, because we were, one of us was gonna say it, this is a real, I'm not like other girls pick for you.

• 47:13Yasi Salek?

  Yeah. Well, I mean, is it like, I won't say what my other pick was gonna be, but I don't, I think, I mean, there's like, I wasn't gonna pick Embrace, this is not really my jam. I like Embrace, but like,

• 47:24Speaker 05

  Why not?

• 47:25Yasi Salek?

  I like them.

• 47:26Speaker 05

  Have you heard Can't Forget?

• 47:27Speaker 03

  She's not like other girls.

• 47:28Yasi Salek?

  No, you know, I do like Embrace. I think they're really good. I was just listening today. Money Goes Hard, still like Dance of Days, so good. And maybe this is cheating, cause like, I was just thinking, well, I'm like, I'm gonna say Get Up Kids and then Moss Icon, and you're like, those bands have zero percent in common. So like, is it, like, are these in the same genre, you know?

• 47:47Speaker 03

  I think in the eighties, like, this, I mean, you're probably a better musical historian than I was, like, Moss Icon, would you consider that emo?

• 47:55Speaker 05

  When you hit me up about that, they were on my radar.

• 47:59Yasi Salek?

  Am I disqualified for choosing that at all?

• 48:01Speaker 05

  I think that they're definitely in play there. Maybe, it's not necessarily proto emo, but I don't think it got, I don't think it got the, um, the targeting of the label, but it's definitely in this melodicism.

• 48:14Yasi Salek?

  I'll tell you, the album cover, very emo.

• 48:17Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 48:18Yasi Salek?

  That sort of ancient, headless, armless sculpture.

• 48:21Speaker 03

  And these guys, like, it was like, end of the eighties and into the nineties for that, right?

• 48:25Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, I just, they just feel fucking good.

• 48:28Speaker 05

  Yeah. They're kinda heavy, too.

• 48:30Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, I think maybe that's what I, it's totally possible that it was just like a recency bias of having, of listening to all this stuff and then being like, so happy to have something a little heavier and be like, oh, fuck with this. Okay.

• 48:41Speaker 03

  Uh, dudes from this band, I believe, wound up being in Universal Order for Armageddon, who I really fucked with.

• 48:47Speaker 05

  Didn't they do a reunion ten years ago? I missed that.

• 48:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, and, uh, I think one of the guys in that band is a very successful pastry chef.

• 48:54Yasi Salek?

  That's a podcast I would listen to, is like, where are they now? What do you do? Like, David Von Boll and CPA, Moss Icon, oh my god, do you think he makes like, like the Drive Like Jehu donut place? Like, he makes like little pastries that are named after old D C hardcore stuff just for funsies?

• 49:13Speaker 03

  Pat, it's your turn.

• 49:14Speaker 05

  All right, uh, I'm gonna go with, um, Sam I Am.

• 49:18Yasi Salek?

  You gotta pick a category.

• 49:20Speaker 05

  Oh, nineties.

• 49:21Yasi Salek?

  Oh, nineties other.

• 49:24Yasi Salek?

  It was tough, and I left it here for you. I want you to know that I was, I really wanted to be graceful for you. Cause as you know, we both love this band so much.

• 49:31Speaker 05

  And, and the best record, in my opinion, is, um, Astray. I think we can all get this in. Does it, do you like Sam I Am crowd?

• 49:41Speaker 05

  Not enough claps.

• 49:43Yasi Salek?

  That was gonna be my third trivia question was gonna be, I guess, maybe this crowd wouldn't have known. That was gonna be like, what Gilman Street Band later birthed Sam I Am? It was Isocracy.

• 49:57Speaker 03

  That was not gonna get got, yeah.

• 49:59Yasi Salek?

  You guys, we're gonna have to work on, we have to work on your trivia.

• 50:04Yasi Salek?

  Isocracy also a pretty great band.

• 50:06Speaker 05

  I am obsessed with them. I came, I came into contact with, there was this comp that was for $1 at Hot Topic in the late 90s called the New Red Archives Comp, which was the label that put out the first couple Sam I Am records. And I was pretty, it was like, it's like a slew of like, you know, pretty intense, mostly Bay Area bands. Like, there was this one song called "Thinking of Suicide" by Social Unrest. It's like, very like, pretty awesome, like, California punk. And then it's just like this three Sam I Am songs that just sound like, it's late 80s and then they're in the 90s and their song, their sound totally evolves.

• 50:49Speaker 05

  But I think that they're a pretty significant band. Because I really do think that, like, one of the things I loved the most about the Run for Cover record from Title Fight was, I noticed that Title Fight had kind of shifted their sound a bit. And I remember seeing Ned at a show and he was rocking a Sam I Am long sleeve. And I was like, oh, awesome. I just fucking totally love Sam I Am. And then they went on to put out Shed. And I remember just thinking, wow, this is right on the nose for me with Sam I Am. This is just, this is exactly what I wanted to do. And like, I would love to do a band that's like capturing that Sam

• 51:32Speaker 05

  I Am sound. If you listen to the song "Stepson," which is on the Clums, I think it's on Clumsy,

• 51:40Speaker 05

  you'll see, like, especially on records like Shed and a little bit of Floral Green, you'll, you'll, you can hear that little thing that Title Fight like, just become total masters of. But I really kind of see it like, it's like the ingredient for what made Sam I Am exactly what they are. And man, oh, man, I just...

• 52:04Speaker 05

  Just love them. I punished Sergi, the guitarist. I met, he came to a Fiddlehead show a couple of years ago and I just, it was about a straight hour and a half of me just asking him random questions about things he didn't even know about, but I needed to get answers on. And I did.

• 52:20Speaker 03

  Is there like a lot of Sam I Am lore that you can accrue, that you can ask the guitar player about, or is it?

• 52:25Yasi Salek?

  Pretty interesting. I mean, just the Gilman Street roots. Trey Cool played drums with them for a year randomly in like 99. Yeah, because they're all, they're all from that Gilman Street scene, like.

• 52:35Speaker 05

  Yeah. And they were like, I was, I was curious about what it was like when they signed to a major and it didn't really go the distance, but they were just talking about like what it means to be like a big band. And I remember Sergi told me this story that like they, they were on tour with Bad Religion and Bad Religion played to 5,000 people somewhere in New York. And then the next night they played to like 600. And they're, it was just, it was an interesting perspective to see. And he was like, that's like what it is. And cause he was, he was trying to say that like, you know, like Fiddlehead is like, you know, is a big thing. And I'm like, are we? And he's like, no, this is a big thing. And I was like, oh, cool. Thanks God. But yeah, I think that they're, they're just totally great. And so if you come on down to my world, you're going to see Rites of Spring, you're

• 53:20Speaker 05

  going to see Cap'n Jazz, and you're going to see, you know, Proto Title Fight in the form of Sam I Am.

• 53:25Speaker 03

  I think Sam I Am is like criminally underrated. Do you, do you, have you listened to them at all? So this happens, I think my, my old roommate Steve, I believe had a Sam I Am record that would get played sometimes in our apartment, but I was actually more into a band called Knapsack that was around at this time. And that was like, I have no idea, like I'm sure Sam I Am influenced Knapsack, but like that was the sort of California pop punk that went into like more complicated song structures band that I was pretty into.

• 53:55Speaker 05

  They were kind of accepted by the indie world.

• 53:57Speaker 03

  Yes. Yeah.

• 53:58Speaker 05

  I'm hoping that this talk will help us understand that there's something going on between emo and the indie scene there.

• 54:05Speaker 03

  Yeah. Like a, like a complicated negotiation about what is and isn't acceptable.

• 54:10Speaker 05

  Yeah. But I mean, Knapsack was like, you're cool. Like the You can come here and but not Sam I am and that's fucked up.

• 54:17Speaker 03

  I remember going to see Knapsack at Middle East upstairs and at the drive-in opened.

• 54:24Yasi Salek?

  Wow.

• 54:26Speaker 03

  And I was like, holy fucking shit.

• 54:30Speaker 03

  Just like I had not seen anybody do that. And like, I think there were like nine people there, but it would not like, cause I'm, it was just like a random opening slot and they just brought the house down.

• 54:40Yasi Salek?

  So wow.

• 54:40Speaker 03

  Yeah. Speaking of what Pat was just talking about, I picked Title Fight for 21st Century.

• 54:46Yasi Salek?

  Let's go Ned. Shout out Ned Hive here. I'm a, I'm a big Glitterer girl. Glitterer.

• 54:52Speaker 05

  I'm a Glitterer boy.

• 54:55Yasi Salek?

  Fucking shit rules.

• 54:57Speaker 05

  I think the song Hello by Glitterer is quite rightly the best song of the 2020s and we're only about six years in.

• 55:06Yasi Salek?

  So you're just for the next four years, no matter Glitterer already.

• 55:10Speaker 05

  Pretty much. You gotta, you gotta, gotta do better than that. I think it's a perfect song. You listen to it, you just get into a trance and I just, I'm, I'm always pumped when Glitterer has a new record out.

• 55:20Speaker 03

  I'm in my late 40s, so there will be gaps in my like kind of engagement with any given genre of music for a certain amount of time, but as I got back into hardcore more significantly and then into like stuff that was floating around hardcore, like this is one of the bands that I got super into Title Fight and they reminded me a lot of a band that I used to love in the 90s called Garden Variety. And just like this kind of chaotic, noisy, but still really melodic stuff. And I just, I love them. Yeah. And I love Glitterer too.

• 55:51Yasi Salek?

  Glitterer.

• 55:53Speaker 05

  What, what, what do you think of Title Fight?

• 55:56Yasi Salek?

  I like Title Fight a lot. I.

• 55:58Speaker 03

  Your voice went really high when you said that.

• 56:00Yasi Salek?

  No, I do. I'm, to be honest, I only kind of got into them like after they didn't really exist that much anymore. So like, I don't want to like claim things like, cause I just like all, and we were talking about this backstage and I think we can talk about it more here because I have a feeling once we finish drafting, you guys will be like, uh, hello, what about like the wave of emo that made all of the money that everyone cares about? And we're going to be like, we don't know her. Um, but like, I just like didn't, I wasn't really checking for new, like. I don't want to give away what I'm gonna pick for this thing, but like, there is a band, obviously, that I know really well in that same time and genre that I just kind of listened to that. And then I didn't, I just like, you know, you stop, you just kind of stop paying attention for a while.

• 56:43Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 56:44Yasi Salek?

  I don't know, I'm sorry.

• 56:46Speaker 03

  A lot of the bands that like, I mean, you would, I've heard them referred to as hardcore adjacent, as post hardcore, like, the terms getting thrown around, like, would-

• 56:55Speaker 05

  I hate the adjacent thing. I think-

• 56:58Yasi Salek?

  You live next door. It's- Beverly Hills post office box.

• 57:03Speaker 05

  I, um, and it's funny, because Bob Shedd, we're at Axe the Grind World, not to bring up a competitor.

• 57:12Speaker 03

  No, it's an awesome podcast.

• 57:13Yasi Salek?

  I'm not.

• 57:16Speaker 05

  He once used a term that I thought was like, perfect for the sound that, because I, I just think Title Fight is such an interesting band. I saw them when they were like, in middle school, fifth or sixth grade or something like that. And, like, I think it really helped that their older brother Alex was in this band called Cold World, that was like, very much so at the time, perceived as like, the hardest fucking hardcore band you could have. And I remember Alex started wearing Title Fight shirts, and it was an amazing moment just sort of watching, like, these, like, super hard kids who, and most of the time, were, you know, having, you know, pancakes made for them by their two parents that were

• 58:00Speaker 05

  home and did have a lot of money. And you could tell there was this, like, we could, like, we don't have to be super hard all the time. We can, we can cry, and we can, we can, like, melodic things, and let's do it. And then, like, woo, like, it was just suddenly, like, it was okay to like pop punk and emo and Cold World at the same time. And that was very much so through, by way of Title Fight. And the thing that I, like, that they're hard to define, you know, in terminology, you know, because they're emo, but they're also not emo. They're hardcore, but they're also not hardcore. They're indie, but they're not indie. And so, the best term I've thought, that I've always really liked,

• 58:45Speaker 05

  was, was non-core. It's this, like-

• 58:49Speaker 05

  There's like, it is, but it isn't. It's, it's, it's sort of not. And I just kinda, I also just in general kinda hate genres that create form and kill spirit and stuff like that. But I get the, the purpose of it. But that always felt like, like a good term.

• 59:04Speaker 03

  Noncore.

• 59:05Yasi Salek?

  Noncore. We had a, we were playing a game, I don't remember who it was with recently, because we were trying to think of like, which genres are the ones that people are like, "Don't call me that." And, and then which genres are like, fully like, "Yeah, I'm, I'm, we're hip hop." You know what I mean? And it's like, trip hop, emo, grunge. It's like, nobody was like, "I'm that." It's so interesting. Cause then there was other genres that like, "Yeah, I play jazz."

• 59:31Speaker 03

  Right.

• 59:32Yasi Salek?

  I don't know what, I don't know what makes a thing a thing.

• 59:35Speaker 03

  Pat, you're up again.

• 59:36Speaker 05

  Oh yeah. So I, I've picked eighties, midwestern nineties. Nineties, nineties. Nineties. So I'm in the 21st century now.

• 59:45Speaker 03

  Or things that are spiritually emo.

• 59:47Speaker 05

  Or things that are spiritually emo.

• 59:50Yasi Salek?

  Okay, you have a double. It's true, Ciara.

• 59:52Speaker 03

  I'm not.

• 59:52Speaker 05

  My bad.

• 59:53Yasi Salek?

  You just did one title fight. Thanks, guys.

• 59:54Speaker 03

  Sorry about that, guys. I gotta pick one. Um, I'm good eighties. I'm gonna do one that I in no way can claim being like, "I've always been down." But I love Squirrel Bait. And so I'm gonna pick them, even though-

• 1:00:06Yasi Salek?

  And I'm not like other girls?

• 1:00:07Speaker 03

  No. I got one guy clapping. Uh, if you ever heard Squirrel Bait, they're incredible. And they basically sound like Paul Westerberg singing for Husker Du. Uh, and they went on to be Gasser Del Sol and Slant and a bunch of other bands. And this is kind of on that indie, uh, emo hardcore axis. Um, very much kind of coming out of SST and Saccharin Trust and like, that kind of sound. But this is just like incredible rock music that is emotionally sincere. So I think qualifies and was one of like, you know, 10 bands in the eighties kinda sounded in this, in this general sphere. So I'll go Squirrel Bait for eighties.

• 1:00:45Yasi Salek?

  Well done, Ciara. You, you do win the "I'm not like other girls" award for the night, though.

• 1:00:52Speaker 05

  Oh man. So I gotta, I gotta think of something right now. 21st century.

• 1:00:56Yasi Salek?

  We can riff for a little bit if you need some time.

• 1:00:59Speaker 03

  It's an entire century of work to come from.

• 1:01:02Speaker 05

  Yeah. So, yeah, that's a good metaverse to come to.

• 1:01:05Yasi Salek?

  Pat, how old are you?

• 1:01:07Speaker 05

  Forty.

• 1:01:08Yasi Salek?

  Okay. So you're the youngest out of us.

• 1:01:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:10Yasi Salek?

  Um, I'm 43.

• 1:01:13Speaker 03

  I'm older than that.

• 1:01:14Yasi Salek?

  Okay.

• 1:01:16Yasi Salek?

  All that to say, just some of this stuff, just, I just missed, I just didn't, was not aware that, until way later, you know?

• 1:01:25Speaker 03

  A lot of 21st century stuff, like in the beginning part, I experienced through the lens of being a rock critic, so it was often thought of of like, how is it important to the grand tapestry of monoculture? That didn't work out for rock criticism. And, so yeah, like I have relationships with some of those bands, and I don't think Pat's gonna pick any of them.

• 1:01:48Yasi Salek?

  I've said it once and I'll say it again, I spent about 10 years listening to only the Smiths and Dipset, and I was not aware of what came out during those 10 years, and that's right around when those bands were coming out.

• 1:01:58Speaker 03

  Welcome to Band Swing.

• 1:01:59Yasi Salek?

  Hello and welcome to Band Swing.

• 1:02:02Speaker 05

  I'm realizing, you know, I was gonna, Yaphet Kodo doesn't really fit that, the emo world, but it's definitely not emo. It's very political, but they're 90s, they're late 90s. I just, I think for my 21st century, I gotta give some love to the old run-for-cover world. Tiger's John, I'm gonna pick up Tiger's John. Hey, look at that. Good band.

• 1:02:31Speaker 05

  I, my first time seeing them was perfect. It was that Sound and Fury Festival, I think 2010?

• 1:02:44Speaker 05

  Someone took a motorcycle and drove it into the festival, which was like, it wasn't an outside festival, it was like a... It also wasn't like a, the festival wasn't on like a motorcycle track either.

• 1:02:59Yasi Salek?

  Hell yeah, dudes rock.

• 1:03:02Speaker 03

  Was it like, "Check out my Harley," or was it more disruptive than that?

• 1:03:05Speaker 05

  It was like, I think it was like, "Goldworld's about to play, let's show everyone my motorcycle." Something like that. Fun fact about, I'm pretty sure, maybe I can get fact-checked on this, but the guy who, I believe, who rode the motorcycle in the, into the fest, was one of the Burger King kids, I don't know if you remember those commercials? He was on a young kid act.

• 1:03:28Speaker 03

  How would we fact-check this?

• 1:03:33Speaker 05

  I think I know the guy.

• 1:03:35Yasi Salek?

  Let's call him.

• 1:03:37Speaker 05

  I'm pretty sure that was him. But anyway, festival shut down and we're like, fuck, Tiger's Jaw was supposed to play. And so like California being just like the, you know, one of the best places in the world to play music, just fucking figured it out and said, you know, let's just, let's show us the, you know, Foundation and Tiger's Jaw, I think this man called Brace War, we're gonna just do a backyard thing. There was like 3,000 people at the fest and I don't think the young 20-somethings really thought about the fact that like, you know, you tell this to 3,000 people then.

• 1:04:13Speaker 03

  They're just gonna go to this.

• 1:04:14Speaker 05

  3,000 fucking people are gonna show up. And so they basically did, there's like one little side streets, I think near, it was something like Santa Barbara at the time, or I don't know, I could be wrong. But there was like, it looked like a thousand people, literally just on the roof of this poor kid's mom's house.

• 1:04:33Yasi Salek?

  It was Josh's house. All ties together.

• 1:04:40Speaker 05

  And I hadn't really dove that deep into Tiger's Jaw at the time, but this is right around the time that like, it was now, there was like a liberating moment where you could like a band like Foundation and Tiger's Jaw at the same time.

• 1:04:53Yasi Salek?

  You guys, men have a lot of rules for themselves, I gotta say.

• 1:04:57Speaker 03

  But this is very. What it's talking about happens like over and over again, like it doesn't get passed down, it gets, it stops.

• 1:05:03Yasi Salek?

  The elders do not teach.

• 1:05:05Speaker 03

  It has to get like taught again.

• 1:05:07Speaker 05

  Yeah. But yeah, it was cool. It was just like such an awesome way to see this band. They were, they were so like weird. Like the delivery of Adam, who would go on to leave, he always reminded me of what's-his-face from The Modern Lovers, Jonathan Richman. And it was like right off the bat, I was like, this dude's got a weird voice. I love it. And yeah, so I like the vibe that they bring year after year with their new records and I think it's a good thing to have and a good model for 21st century.

• 1:05:44Yasi Salek?

  It's a good model for masculinity, good role models for masculinity.

• 1:05:51Yasi Salek?

  I will do 21st Century also, and you guys already fucking know. Torrance, California's finest is Joyce Manor.

• 1:06:01Speaker 03

  It's so interesting to hear what gets reactions and what doesn't. Because you know, we live in a bubble.

• 1:06:06Yasi Salek?

  I know Joyce Manor's popular.

• 1:06:08Speaker 03

  Squirrel bait is not in this bubble, but...

• 1:06:13Yasi Salek?

  I think you had to know that.

• 1:06:14Speaker 03

  Joyce Manor, now, would you always... Would you say that they are self-consciously emo?

• 1:06:21Yasi Salek?

  I asked Barry, to be honest, before I came here, not to name drop and brag. But I was like, "Do you guys consider... Like, do you consider yourself fourth wave emo?" And he was like, "Ha ha, yeah." And then he... Actually, I'll read it. He's like, "Here's how I describe the band." It was actually kind of... It was like, basically, eight different genres. "I personally describe our band as emo tinged pop punk with indie rock tendencies."

• 1:06:52Speaker 03

  Like at Thanksgiving, that's how he describes it?

• 1:06:54Yasi Salek?

  When Grandma's like, "What are you doing again, Barry? Like, what's your job?"

• 1:06:58Speaker 03

  It's kind of non-core, but also adjacent, yeah.

• 1:07:01Yasi Salek?

  I mean, I just, I'm like, "I wanna a tattoo." Are you fucking kidding me with that song? I can listen to that song on repeat for like, a day. Like, 24 hours, like, take caffeine pills so I don't have to sleep, so I could just keep hearing that song. It's crack.

• 1:07:19Speaker 03

  And new record just came out, right?

• 1:07:20Yasi Salek?

  And a new record, shout out. I don't remember the name, I'm so sorry, but I heard it, it's really good. I just think they've put out consistently really good music. Like, I feel like I met them around the time of Never Hungover Again, which was like, 2014? Does that sound right to you guys?

• 1:07:38Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, okay. And they were kind of like, adjacent to the burger record scene in LA. Or like, that's kind of how I first saw them. And just shameful past, over here, up in that burger scene. And I was like, "I love this band." And then we got talking, and they're like, "We're from Torrance." And I was like, "That's it, it's forever, me and you." I just think they're really good.

• 1:07:58Speaker 03

  It's a great pick.

• 1:07:58Yasi Salek?

  They keep advancing.

• 1:07:59Speaker 03

  So that's it for 21st Century. Are you surprised that?

• 1:08:02Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:02Speaker 03

  Or is the crowd surprised that My Chem didn't get picked? Or that any of the more notable, big 21st Century bands didn't get picked?

• 1:08:08Yasi Salek?

  Well, that's, I think, what we were kind of alluding to, right? It's just like, and I don't think these are, these bands aren't good. I, we did, and I know that everyone, not everyone, but people who are My Chem fans would like us to redo the My Chem episode. And we are planning on doing that because it's very short. But when I went back to be like, who's? And like, go listen to it. I was like, oh, this is good. Like, I get this. It's like, it's like theater kid punk.

• 1:08:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:08:34Yasi Salek?

  But like goth, like it's, it's very good. It's just like, I didn't know about it. Like, I remember the ding ding.

• 1:08:44Speaker 03

  The Black Parade piano?

• 1:08:45Yasi Salek?

  Yeah. Black Parade, which, fun fact, and I don't know if, I'm sure I've said on that episode, after we did that episode, my God, you guys never become an aging woman. Just never do it. Like, if you can, I think actually women should be put to pasture at 40. Because what can, what use can we bring to society with these brains that can't remember anything?

• 1:09:09Speaker 03

  To be fair, you're trying to think of My Chemical Romance trivia, so I don't think you should be too hard on yourself.

• 1:09:14Yasi Salek?

  I'm trying to think of the guy who produced that album. I love him. His name is Rob, but I just can't remember the last name. You guys know? Rob Cavalo. Thank you. Rob Harvilla. It was Rob Harvilla. You guys don't know about his secret. Rob Cavalo, God, God, dear producer, love him. Anyways, he somehow caught wind that we had done these band slates. He also did the Jawbreaker record that everyone at first hated, but now loves.

• 1:09:34Speaker 03

  Do you?

• 1:09:34Yasi Salek?

  Yeah. He, he came up with that piano part, he told me. And I was like, yeah, he's kind of, he also discovered Maroon 5.

• 1:09:44Speaker 03

  I think he produced Dookie too, right? Didn't he?

• 1:09:46Yasi Salek?

  Yes, yeah. He's, he's, I mean, he's incredible.

• 1:09:48Speaker 03

  He's kicked up.

• 1:09:50Yasi Salek?

  But I think, I think My Chem is good. I just, it just wasn't, it was just none of my business, you know? Like.

• 1:09:56Speaker 03

  Dude, I.

• 1:09:58Yasi Salek?

  Pat Flynn shoots from the hip. He'll tell us what he really thinks.

• 1:10:02Speaker 05

  I didn't really dive in.

• 1:10:04Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:05Speaker 05

  And I just, I heard that they had toured with American Nightmare. And I was like, that's, that's cool.

• 1:10:13Yasi Salek?

  Jeff Rikley produced their first album, the first Mike M album.

• 1:10:17Speaker 05

  Oh, man.

• 1:10:18Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, from Thursday, which also-

• 1:10:20Speaker 05

  Thursday for my 21st-

• 1:10:22Yasi Salek?

  And I'm gonna tell him right now. I'm gonna text him right now.

• 1:10:24Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 1:10:24Yasi Salek?

  Name.

• 1:10:25Speaker 03

  Tiger Shone, you got the motorcycle story.

• 1:10:28Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:10:29Yasi Salek?

  That's true.

• 1:10:29Speaker 05

  But, ah.

• 1:10:32Yasi Salek?

  Jeff, Jeff is the pinnacle of divine masculinity and, and passing down to the elder, or to the next generation. I think he would be happy that you chose Tiger Shone.

• 1:10:41Speaker 03

  So Thursday is another band that we didn't pick, Taking Back Sunday.

• 1:10:44Yasi Salek?

  Taking Back Sunday. I don't know one note of that band's music. I'm so sorry. I don't know if it, I'm not saying it's bad. I just, I've never like, I've never heard it.

• 1:10:50Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:10:51Speaker 05

  They got tracks.

• 1:10:52Yasi Salek?

  Brand new. We don't talk about them anymore.

• 1:10:56Speaker 05

  Not, not, not going there, but-

• 1:10:57Yasi Salek?

  I've been told.

• 1:10:59Speaker 05

  Taking Back Sunday, you got, you got some-

• 1:11:00Yasi Salek?

  They got tunes? Okay, I'll, I'll listen. I only, I have one Wild and Precious Life, babe, and then it's always like, you need to listen to three port-a-set albums for two weeks straight. Like, it's a real, the fact that I even squeeze in as much new music as I do is a miracle. I gotta listen to 18 Ringer podcasts just to continue to be employed there.

• 1:11:17Speaker 03

  It's a tough life.

• 1:11:19Speaker 03

  You have the first pick of spiritually emo.

• 1:11:23Yasi Salek?

  I'm gonna do something really lame and I'm sorry. I just couldn't think of something clever clever land. Like, like you said, like a leaf falling from the ground or an unraveling sweater or whatever. I'm gonna say another band.

• 1:11:37Speaker 03

  Oh, okay.

• 1:11:38Yasi Salek?

  Third Eye Blind.

• 1:11:42Yasi Salek?

  I will die on this hill. Third Eye Blind, self-titled, is an emo album. Kevin Cattigan, shout out, The Goat. Those guitar lines are very emo. It's fucking, why are you laughing at me? All weekend, you guys, this man looked at me and just laughed with no, like, no explanation. And I'm like, I know, I know it's, I'm funny, but that's not why he's laughing.

• 1:12:03Speaker 03

  You're hilarious. It's, it's definitely that. It's, um, Third Eye Blind, I never would have thought was emo until I met you.

• 1:12:13Speaker 03

  And it's interesting that you love the red eyed wine and need them to also be something else.

• 1:12:17Yasi Salek?

  I don't need them to be anything else. I, I just think they are.

• 1:12:21Speaker 05

  How's it gonna be is like a

• 1:12:23Yasi Salek?

  That's what I

• 1:12:23Speaker 05

  Emotional song. And then, uh, the Jeff Off from the ledge, you know?

• 1:12:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, jump, no.

• 1:12:30Speaker 05

  Jumper?

• 1:12:30Speaker 03

  Jumper, yeah.

• 1:12:31Yasi Salek?

  Uh, motorcycle drive by, have you, the god of wine? God of wine is crouched down in my room. You let me down. I said it.

• 1:12:40Speaker 05

  Get, get, get Steven's phone here.

• 1:12:43Yasi Salek?

  Huh?

• 1:12:44Speaker 05

  You should be, you know, singing with them.

• 1:12:46Yasi Salek?

  I do feel like I should have been in a band and unfortunately I'm instead a podcaster.

• 1:12:50Speaker 05

  Hey, do you sing the, the opening song? I'm presuming.

• 1:12:53Yasi Salek?

  No, that's Bethany Cosentino and Jennifer Clayton. Bethany Cosentino, Best Coast, Jennifer Clayton of, of Mika Mika and Bleach.

• 1:13:00Speaker 05

  I didn't know that. I'm glad I asked publicly.

• 1:13:04Yasi Salek?

  I, I don't know if you noticed, but I am tone deaf.

• 1:13:08Yasi Salek?

  But I have heart and that's what matters.

• 1:13:11Speaker 03

  Pat, you have a spiritually emo pick.

• 1:13:13Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:15Speaker 05

  I am gonna go with, um, a young 15 year old boy crying in the bathroom stall listening to Embrace.

• 1:13:25Yasi Salek?

  That's very nice.

• 1:13:27Speaker 05

  That's, that's me.

• 1:13:30Speaker 05

  I think that's pretty spiritually emo.

• 1:13:33Yasi Salek?

  I'm glad that you were able to connect with your feelings.

• 1:13:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, publicly. And when they went and it's on the internet, thousands. But I do, I do think. Yeah, that's a, that's a loaded. I don't know what you're writing, but I didn't make it easy for you.

• 1:13:54Yasi Salek?

  Note, note for note there from what you said.

• 1:13:57Speaker 05

  I, I do, I just, I really do appreciate the, the bands that just sort of put it out on, on the line and, uh, the thing I just, I struggled with, which is like, it wasn't the Get Up Kids, okay? It was

• 1:14:11Yasi Salek?

  It did feel like it was.

• 1:14:12Speaker 05

  It was the, it was the Get Up Kids kids.

• 1:14:16Yasi Salek?

  Well, what do we all, you mean, oh, you mean the few, the

• 1:14:19Speaker 03

  The bands that came after.

• 1:14:20Yasi Salek?

  The bands that came after or their fans?

• 1:14:22Speaker 05

  Their fans.

• 1:14:22Yasi Salek?

  Yes, okay. One of the true, truest things I've ever said, and I'll never stop saying, you can't choose your fans. I love you guys. I got lucky. Although I will say I was a little PTSD when you said fun fact. You guys have such PTSD around fun fact, because I'm going to tell you what the most used phrase in my DMs from people I don't know is. Fun fact. I need to inform you about this thing. And then I'm like, is it? Is it a fun fact?

• 1:14:47Yasi Salek?

  Is it? Okay, sorry, go on.

• 1:14:50Speaker 05

  I just like, like, you know, it's funny how it begins. It's like, it's like a term to try and like humiliate somebody trying to be open about their, you know, how they're feeling. And it was just kind of rejected. And then it kind of comes back on. The thing in the late 90s that just kind of bothered me is that like it became like this identity. And I sort of get it as like a means of like, kind of like power, disempowerment, we're gonna own it, we're gonna take it. But then they just like lean into it and it kind of, it kind of like made it seem like that, it almost made it seem like this open emotional thing is like, is separate. And I like, it, it, it just, it just bothered me.

• 1:15:31Speaker 05

  And so when I, with my time in the music scene that I was running in, I tried to really inject, you know, the, with the aggression, you know, some real kind of like emotive themes and openness to it. But there was something, it felt like the emo kids of the late 90s were like drawing a line. They were like, feeling emotion is only for us, not you. Right? And so like, that felt weird, but I feel like that era kind of, you know, calcified and died.

• 1:16:01Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:02Speaker 05

  Now it's like, it's, it's, I think it's, in my opinion, it's a pretty nice time for music.

• 1:16:06Yasi Salek?

  But I think that was, that was the wave that we're talking about that we don't know that much about. Like, that was that third wave or whatever, where you were like, this is, okay, I'm gonna say some really austere shit now, you guys, sorry. I feel like the origins of emo was very like the divine masculine, right? It was like...

• 1:16:23Speaker 05

  No, it's not. I wasn't laughing at you, it's just...

• 1:16:26Yasi Salek?

  You guys saw it.

• 1:16:29Yasi Salek?

  I'll say it again, the divine masculine. Because it was this aggressive hardcore music, but then also folding into it some emotional vulnerability, which is like, that's what the divine masculine is, right? It's still the, the, the most elevated parts of like archetypal masculinity, which is like strength and like protection and like a bit of force, but with like being able to also be in touch with emotions. And then by the time it got to the third wave, it was like a little like...

• 1:17:02Yasi Salek?

  They're like trying to trick you. Like, how many women have suffered at the hands of a man in a size 26 jeans with a bangs here being like, "I'm emo." But like, which wave has the most cancelled bands? "I'm not gonna point men from doing bad things as a teenage girl." I'm just saying. It really fell from fucking grace.

• 1:17:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17:23Yasi Salek?

  From what it was meant to be. And then I do feel like it's kind of picked back up in this like, I mean, they're doing it different, but yeah, we just talked about Title Fight, Tiger's Jaw, Joyce Manor. Like, these bands kind of do both in like a really cool way.

• 1:17:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, and then there's like a whole other like cohort of bands that we haven't even talked about that are like enormously popular that come after like this kind of group, the Title Fight, Joyce Manor, Tiger's Jaw.

• 1:17:48Yasi Salek?

  Right, Fifth Wave.

• 1:17:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, I guess so.

• 1:17:50Yasi Salek?

  Twinkle Daddies, I just learned about that.

• 1:17:52Speaker 05

  Glass Beach.

• 1:17:53Yasi Salek?

  Huh?

• 1:17:54Speaker 05

  Glass Beach.

• 1:17:55Speaker 03

  Glass Beach?

• 1:17:56Yasi Salek?

  What's that?

• 1:17:58Speaker 05

  They're cool, I just learned about them about an hour ago.

• 1:18:02Speaker 05

  I have two kids and a full-time job.

• 1:18:04Speaker 03

  I like the idea that you're like a newsscaster. And you're like, "This just, I'm getting Glass Beach is being handed to me now."

• 1:18:12Speaker 05

  Incoming.

• 1:18:12Yasi Salek?

  That was, I mean, it kind of is, because shout out to producer Rob, my producer of Answer Man, Rob Sunderman, he's amazing. This was his most favorite assignment to make me this like 25-page doc of all these bands, and he was like, "I've never loved my work more." And I was like, "Amazing." But the bands he put in this like fourth and fifth wave, I was like, "These are words." But then I listened to some of them and I was like, "Okay." What was, Chris, I can't remember, the band that was like a full sentence? You remember, I was saying it backstage.

• 1:18:40Speaker 03

  "The world is..."

• 1:18:41Speaker 05

  "The world is a beautiful place and I'm no longer afraid to die."

• 1:18:44Yasi Salek?

  So good!

• 1:18:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:46Speaker 05

  Chris Teddy recorded the, all the first three Fiddlehead records, wonderful guy.

• 1:18:50Speaker 03

  Connection.

• 1:18:51Speaker 05

  And the recent How Much Art EP, so great guy.

• 1:18:55Yasi Salek?

  So I'm glad people are, but yeah, we don't, it's just.

• 1:18:59Speaker 03

  We just, we went with what we knew.

• 1:19:02Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:02Speaker 03

  I have one last pick.

• 1:19:03Yasi Salek?

  Is it spiritually emo?

• 1:19:05Speaker 03

  Spiritually emo, and it is Billy Bob Thornton's halftime speech in the Friday Night Lights movie. Nice, that's a good move. Whenever I feel dead inside and like I'm not, I'm wondering whether or not like I've had all the experiences I can have. And this is just like one boat steering out into the ocean. I'll throw that speech on it. I'm like, I still fucking got it, you know? I can still get the waterworks going. And it's a good example. It's like you're watching a football movie. You're listening to like aggressive music. You're like, I'm not supposed to feel this. Watching a football movie and this guy's just like, can you be perfect? And you're like, holy shit.

• 1:19:42Speaker 03

  I can't be perfect. Yeah.

• 1:19:44Yasi Salek?

  That sounds like a Sunny Day Real Estate former band name.

• 1:19:49Speaker 03

  That's fine. It's Billy Bob Thornton's halftime speech from Friday Night Lights.

• 1:19:53Yasi Salek?

  It's beautiful. It's really good.

• 1:19:55Speaker 03

  Not the show.

• 1:19:56Yasi Salek?

  And that's why CR is the world's greatest podcaster. You guys right there. Just in the 11th hour, he pulls some shit out like this. He had a really good one on the plane that was like going to the grocery store alone at night.

• 1:20:12Yasi Salek?

  Damn, that is really fucking emo.

• 1:20:16Speaker 03

  Especially if you're listening to emo while you're at the grocery store at night.

• 1:20:20Yasi Salek?

  You should not wear headphones while you shop at the grocery store. It's antisocial behavior.

• 1:20:24Speaker 03

  But it's night, there's nobody there. That's the whole point. It's just you and comics.

• 1:20:28Yasi Salek?

  How are you gonna have your meet cute with the other?

• 1:20:32Speaker 03

  I'm married. Like, I'm good. I just want to just listen to title fight while I'm looking at different protein bars, you know?

• 1:20:43Speaker 00

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• 1:21:13Speaker 01

  The best part of waking up? A full cup of Folgers coffee and music on full blast.

• 1:21:40Speaker 06

  Shop Folgers Instant Coffee and more at your nearest retailer.

• 1:21:45Speaker 03

  We have like a little bit of time, I think, to do some, some questions from the audience. We have a microphone right here. If anybody has-

• 1:21:51Yasi Salek?

  Wait, you don't want to say it really quickly, things that we didn't draft that we'd give a quick shout out to?

• 1:21:56Speaker 03

  Sure, go ahead.

• 1:21:57Yasi Salek?

  I gotta say, I wanted to do it, but it didn't fit. Jawbreaker.

• 1:22:00Speaker 03

  Jawbreaker's a great one. Obviously, like, a little bit of debate about what genre that would be.

• 1:22:04Yasi Salek?

  Okay. You guys have any?

• 1:22:06Speaker 03

  Coming from pop.

• 1:22:07Yasi Salek?

  Dag Nasty for me also. That was a tough one for me in 90s goats. I really liked Dag Nasty.

• 1:22:11Speaker 03

  I think I might like that one last wish record.

• 1:22:14Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. My Better Half. One of the best.

• 1:22:16Speaker 03

  I don't even know, but I love that album. Any, any things that you didn't get to pick?

• 1:22:22Speaker 05

  I want to publicly apologize to Jeff Rickley, who I met for the first time just like five days ago. Thursday's named after a Turning Point song, and it's, quite frankly, one of the best Turning Point songs ever. If you haven't heard it, give it a listen. It's a good time. I'm sorry, Mr. Rickley.

• 1:22:40Yasi Salek?

  Okay. Nothing for you, Chris. You're feel good about all your picks?

• 1:22:42Speaker 03

  No, I mean, Gray Matter from the 80s. I was also a huge fan of.

• 1:22:46Speaker 05

  I got a hot take.

• 1:22:47Speaker 03

  Let's hear it.

• 1:22:48Speaker 05

  The song "Head" by Gray Matter is better than "End on End" by Rights of Spring.

• 1:22:54Speaker 03

  Oh, shit.

• 1:22:55Speaker 05

  I had someone tell me that they would punch me in the face for saying-

• 1:22:57Yasi Salek?

  Was it Patrick Kinlan from?

• 1:23:00Speaker 05

  No, it was someone from, from DC. But I, you know, I'd say you can go ahead and punch me in the face on that. That "Head" is, is better. It's a better closer than "End on End."

• 1:23:09Speaker 03

  Two bands from the 90s that I don't know are, if they're emo or not, but they would get tagged with it sometimes. One was The Van Pelt, and the other was Antioch Arrow, who were my favorite Gravity band of just dudes falling on the ground. But they sometimes get called emo.

• 1:23:25Yasi Salek?

  And we all, we all apologize to you, Fat Coda.

• 1:23:27Speaker 03

  Before we do questions, why don't we recap our picks really quick?

• 1:23:30Yasi Salek?

  Okay. My picks were 90s Other, Sunny Day Real Estate, 90s Midwest, The Get Up Kids.

• 1:23:38Yasi Salek?

  80s goats, Moss Icon, 21st Century, Joyce Manor, and spiritually emo, Third Eye Blind, first album specifically.

• 1:23:46Speaker 03

  Pat, what about you?

• 1:23:48Speaker 05

  Mine were Rights of Spring for the 80s, Cap'n Jazz for 90s midwestern, Sam I Am for the 90s, non midwestern,

• 1:24:01Speaker 05

  Tiger's Jaw for the 21st Century, and 15 year old boy trying to get to the bathroom, listening to it, specifically the song "Building", just to be clear.

• 1:24:13Speaker 03

  Spiritually emo. In fact, actually participatory in emo, right there, yeah. Mine were I Drafted Promising First, 90s Midwest, Jimmy World for 90s non Midwest, Title Fight for 21st Century, Squirrel Bait got one clap.

• 1:24:28Yasi Salek?

  There he is, he's clapping to get hard for you. He really, he needs you to know he's here.

• 1:24:32Speaker 03

  And Billy Martin's halftime speech during Friday Night Lights, the movie, as my spiritually emo thing. Anybody want to ask any questions of any of the three of us?

• 1:24:40Yasi Salek?

  A little Q and A moment, if you guys wanna...

• 1:24:43Speaker 03

  Should we have people come up to the front, Elizabeth? If you don't mind, I'd hate to make you walk.

• 1:24:47Yasi Salek?

  You have to sing a line from a song.

• 1:24:50Speaker 03

  It could be from me, Pat, Yasi, you, Pat, whatever.

• 1:24:52Yasi Salek?

  Come on.

• 1:24:54Speaker 04

  Hello.

• 1:24:55Speaker 03

  Hi.

• 1:24:57Speaker 04

  Quick two-parter, which panelists love.

• 1:24:59Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:25:00Speaker 04

  Are there any Boston area, maybe Milford this side of the stage, are there any Boston area bands in your experiences that maybe even still haven't been mentioned? And maybe for CR2, do you consider Fergie from the town emo? Thank you.

• 1:25:17Speaker 03

  I don't, but I do think Jem. I could see Jem, if Jem had lived, getting into emo later in life. Fergie, no. I think Fergie did not have a lot of emo in him.

• 1:25:30Speaker 05

  Boston area bands, I think Piebald, just like absolute fucking best. In fact, I'm, it's pathetic, I didn't, they didn't make my list, I'm so sorry. That first record, the first EP, Yesterday I Called You, oh my god. They're just like a perfect band, and they were part of that, you know, 90s explosion in Massachusetts. It's super special. Yeah, I think that, and they're also, they all seem like really nice guys. And funny, too. Not, not super emo, funny.

• 1:26:03Speaker 03

  It's gonna be funny. Another question? Anybody? Come on up. Sorry to make this so performative.

• 1:26:09Speaker 07

  Is that a Love Burger shirt? Yeah, thank you.

• 1:26:12Speaker 05

  Anybody order a Love Burger?

• 1:26:13Speaker 07

  Well done.

• 1:26:16Speaker 07

  Not so, like Andy Greenwald, like king of sweaters.

• 1:26:19Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:26:19Speaker 07

  Had the, you know, had a perfect, like, definition of emo, but to someone like my brother who I said, "I'm going to watch them talk about emo bands," and he's like, "What the hell's that mean?" If you had to go tell someone, and like, a brief little thing, "What's emo?" How would you do it? I can't, I don't know how to do it.

• 1:26:41Speaker 07

  You're experts.

• 1:26:41Yasi Salek?

  Do you want my doc?

• 1:26:44Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:26:45Yasi Salek?

  You could show it to him.

• 1:26:46Speaker 03

  Like, what would be the elevator pitch for emo, basically?

• 1:26:49Speaker 07

  Perfect, yeah.

• 1:26:49Speaker 03

  Okay. It's like really sincere, melodic, heavy rock, I would say.

• 1:26:56Speaker 05

  If I had to tell, like, a coworker, I, I would, I would just say-

• 1:27:01Yasi Salek?

  Like in the teacher's lounge?

• 1:27:02Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:27:04Yasi Salek?

  The physical ed teacher?

• 1:27:06Speaker 05

  I, I would, uh, I would probably say, "I gotta go print some papers."

• 1:27:12Speaker 05

  I, I think it's very, it's very hard. It's, that's a really interesting question.

• 1:27:16Speaker 07

  The copy machine's broken. Always.

• 1:27:19Speaker 05

  It, you know what? It, it's very, uh, emotionally dri- I can't use the word, can't use-

• 1:27:25Yasi Salek?

  You can, of course you can.

• 1:27:26Speaker 05

  Emotionally open, uh, and vulnerable music and lyrics. I think that that, that kinda gets that there.

• 1:27:34Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:27:34Speaker 05

  But, but so, you know, so is other forms of music. So I, it's hard to like, you know what? Music with people wearing size small t-shirts.

• 1:27:42Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, small pants.

• 1:27:43Speaker 03

  You could basically be like, "It's like Third Eye Blind, but less popular."

• 1:27:50Speaker 07

  You're right.

• 1:27:50Yasi Salek?

  I'm just, I can't.

• 1:27:53Speaker 07

  Thank you.

• 1:27:54Speaker 03

  Thank you for your question.

• 1:27:54Yasi Salek?

  Thank you.

• 1:27:55Speaker 03

  We got, uh, one more back there?

• 1:27:57Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:27:58Yasi Salek?

  You don't have to raise your hand. If you wanna come, you can just stand behind the other person and then go-

• 1:28:01Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 1:28:02Yasi Salek?

  If you don't want-

• 1:28:02Speaker 05

  We can do a lineup.

• 1:28:03Yasi Salek?

  I know, that's weird, but-

• 1:28:04Speaker 08

  Hey, guys.

• 1:28:05Yasi Salek?

  Hi.

• 1:28:06Speaker 08

  Get up his t-shirts.

• 1:28:07Yasi Salek?

  Get up his t-shirts.

• 1:28:08Speaker 08

  I love that band. I'm not gonna lie, I washed it and dried it today specifically for this.

• 1:28:14Yasi Salek?

  To make it small, to make it smaller.

• 1:28:19Speaker 08

  A spy's small would not fit me. Guys, I loved the Bandplain episode on Jimmy Eat World.

• 1:28:26Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:28:27Speaker 08

  I also have to give a quick shout out. My buddy Tom Buckley worked with you. T-Bucks.

• 1:28:35Speaker 05

  Coworker.

• 1:28:36Speaker 08

  You have no idea how happy that just made me. Tom Buckley is a dear friend and shout out Tom Buckley. I loved the Jimmy Eat World episode and I loved that you guys were split in that you are a Clarity fan and you are a Bleed American.

• 1:28:52Yasi Salek?

  To be clear, we are both fans of both albums.

• 1:28:55Speaker 08

  Of course, of course, of course.

• 1:28:56Yasi Salek?

  But we just have a different favorite.

• 1:28:58Speaker 08

  But you have a strong favorite and I love that. I'm wondering if you were to just choose one song from those respective albums.

• 1:29:09Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:29:10Speaker 08

  What would it be?

• 1:29:11Yasi Salek?

  Praise Chorus, already.

• 1:29:12Speaker 08

  I always wanted to discredit Praise Chorus.

• 1:29:14Yasi Salek?

  Can't, that's it. Oh, then it would be me, Sweetness.

• 1:29:17Speaker 03

  I think the song I've listened to the most is Crush.

• 1:29:19Speaker 08

  Crush, okay.

• 1:29:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:21Speaker 08

  Yes. Great.

• 1:29:23Speaker 03

  Good question, though.

• 1:29:24Yasi Salek?

  Thank you, yeah.

• 1:29:25Speaker 03

  Thank you, man.

• 1:29:26Speaker 09

  David Von Buller. Hey. Howdy. When I go home to my parents for the holidays and I get a little sick of them, there's a friend that I text. His name is Red Pill Richard because he's not a good person.

• 1:29:37Yasi Salek?

  Okay.

• 1:29:38Speaker 09

  But his take after one or two beers is that emo only gets good post 9/11. So it's a specific, it's a strange take.

• 1:29:49Yasi Salek?

  Does she want to come on Bandplain?

• 1:29:52Speaker 09

  It's a strange take and I've tried to debate him. I'm wondering if you have a specific, a 2000 year record that I could throw in his face to say, "Listen to this," to like deflect that that take is incorrect.

• 1:30:07Speaker 03

  Is that Bleed American? No, Bleed American's a one.

• 1:30:09Yasi Salek?

  2001. Well, Clarity is before 9/11. Bleed American is before 9/11.

• 1:30:14Speaker 03

  But he's saying like specifically from 2000. Is there a Braid record that comes out in 2000?

• 1:30:19Yasi Salek?

  Oh, American Football, isn't it self-titled 2000?

• 1:30:25Yasi Salek?

  Ninety-nine, was 2000 a dead year?

• 1:30:26Speaker 03

  Somebody said Rising Tide, the sunny day record? Okay.

• 1:30:29Yasi Salek?

  Okay. You wanted just like 99 doesn't count?

• 1:30:33Speaker 09

  I think it would irritate him more if it's 2000.

• 1:30:35Yasi Salek?

  2000, okay. Oh, you know what? My doc is by year. Hold on, I'm gonna, we're gonna.

• 1:30:41Speaker 03

  I, do I want to know why, why is it named Red Pill Richard? Or is it not like a fun story?

• 1:30:47Yasi Salek?

  I don't feel like the context is right there. I don't think you need to, you need to really.

• 1:30:50Speaker 03

  Just a huge Matrix fan.

• 1:30:51Yasi Salek?

  Damn, kind of a rough year. The anniversary? Yeah. Designing a nervous breakdown? Cursive? Oh, yeah. Domestica comes out there?

• 1:30:59Speaker 03

  I'll play domestica by cursive.

• 1:31:01Yasi Salek?

  Yeah. And the Jazz June, the medicine. Those are the three ones that were indicated in my doc.

• 1:31:07Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:31:07Yasi Salek?

  Well, I would say cursive out of the three.

• 1:31:09Speaker 03

  Me too.

• 1:31:09Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:10Speaker 09

  Thank you.

• 1:31:10Speaker 03

  You're welcome.

• 1:31:11Yasi Salek?

  Shout out Red Pill Richard, or maybe not shout out Red Pill Richard. I mean, I need to know more about him before I co-sign him.

• 1:31:17Speaker 03

  Hi.

• 1:31:18Speaker 10

  Hi, guys. Thanks for coming to Boston, Cambridge.

• 1:31:21Speaker 03

  It's our pleasure.

• 1:31:22Speaker 10

  Of course. So I appreciate how you shared your forays and introductions into emo. And mine was like, I love the Blue Album and then I got Pinkerton. And I never heard anything like it.

• 1:31:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:33Speaker 10

  And I went to Newbury Comics and I said, I need more music that sounds like this. But it made me think that like, it's probably, a lot of people don't associate Weezer as an emo band, but that's absolutely an emo album. And I want to ask you guys, do you think, what, what's a band that's put out like one emo record that's kind of like incongruous with like the rest of their catalog? And I would like.

• 1:31:57Yasi Salek?

  Um, I don't know, who else? I don't, would you say Pinkerton is incongruous with Blue Album? Cause it doesn't, it's not like a huge departure.

• 1:32:08Speaker 09

  Symbiotic, I guess you could say.

• 1:32:10Yasi Salek?

  Trying to think of it.

• 1:32:10Speaker 03

  I think there was, it was almost helpful that there was like a narrative around Pinkerton that it was like misunderstood or lost in some way. And that was like, it washed up on the shore, you know, a little bit.

• 1:32:21Yasi Salek?

  A bit in South Island.

• 1:32:22Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:32:25Yasi Salek?

  Um, damn, that's a hard question. I can't really think of.

• 1:32:31Speaker 05

  That's a stumper dude. That's a really good question.

• 1:32:33Yasi Salek?

  Do you feel like the new Fiddlehead EP is a little more emo than the previous stuff?

• 1:32:37Speaker 05

  Yeah. No. Yes or no? The fir- Fiddlehead has a new EP coming out later this year. Did Yasi just break that news?

• 1:32:48Yasi Salek?

  I don't use that that was allowed to be talked about.

• 1:32:51Speaker 05

  It's good promo, Rar C, right? Yep. It's called Baby I'll Change. And one song is, and then it kind of mutates to kind of some Arcturus Loaf stuff. And then the third song, the song Baby I'll Change, we wrote then and there and it just did what it did. It was a nice moment. I don't know if it's more emo. I don't know. We don't really, we just go where it goes.

• 1:33:17Yasi Salek?

  Right. Just follow Dallas.

• 1:33:19Speaker 05

  This is a good question though. Like who had like the emo record that just was different? Does like Pearl Jam have anything like that? Like is Vitology their emo? It's not, but like it would like- It kind of, Off He Goes is a very emotional song. Yeah. Better Man? I kind of want to start singing that. That's their emo record. That was a good question. I'm sorry that really stopped us. Yeah. How's it going, man?

• 1:33:45Speaker 11

  Hey. Hi. Long time, no time.

• 1:33:46Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:33:47Speaker 11

  Pat, I saw you open for Military Gun back in November. That was-

• 1:33:52Speaker 05

  Oh, right on. Oh, the Howl and the Charge show?

• 1:33:54Speaker 11

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:33:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, cool.

• 1:33:55Yasi Salek?

  Yeah. I love Military Gun on this program.

• 1:33:57Speaker 11

  I play drums in a band. We just had our like first show like a couple of weeks ago.

• 1:34:01Speaker 05

  Nice.

• 1:34:02Speaker 11

  Always looking for like advice just for like how to stay inspired like as you as an artist, but also you two as just creators in general of like how do you keep the juices flowing, you know?

• 1:34:12Speaker 05

  I can definitely say, listen to bands play. I'm not even just kidding. One thing I really like about what you guys do is that the way that you speak about it is really, you're not like judgmental. Like I shudder to think of myself as like an artist, but like the way that you talk about it, like just creativity is like super inspiring. And I'm like, I want to keep doing this. It's, I want to be a part of just looking at nothing and putting something into the world. World and I like that's something so like very specifically listen to bands playing is is very inspiring. I think surrounding yourself around people who are, you know, just who don't are completely fucking uninterested in like getting famous and shit like that and are more

• 1:34:57Speaker 05

  interested in like getting together and then just kind of, you know, just creating something that that's been, you know, something for me is a lot of joy to my life and I encourage everybody to do it and also to take super amounts of joy playing to fucking zero people. There I saw this footage of Fontaine CC playing to fucking nobody. It was so like there was a song. It was a great song like Lucy Liu was just just a clip of it. It's like an amazing song and they're playing in like an actual like a shitty pub and no one's paying attention to them. And you can just sort of tell that they don't give a shit. And that has worked out quite well for this those Irish boys and like, but I don't think that that was really the big intention

• 1:35:37Speaker 05

  of them. I could be wrong. Like, I just think it's just, it's good to just sort of create music and that that's it. Yeah.

• 1:35:47Yasi Salek?

  You want me to go, sir?

• 1:35:50Speaker 05

  What's that?

• 1:35:51Yasi Salek?

  You want me to go?

• 1:35:51Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:35:52Yasi Salek?

  I would say my therapist always says, which I really love, is that you always need cycles of input to have cycles of output. So if you're feeling uninspired and you can't do anything, like you need to be nourishing yourself with art and other music and go to the museum, go into nature, like you gotta be get inspiration. You can't just like keep grinding. And also, The Artist's Way is amazing if you've never done it. I love I still be doing those fucking morning pages every morning, bitch.

• 1:36:23Speaker 05

  What is that? Is that like drilling?

• 1:36:24Yasi Salek?

  You don't know The Artist's Way? Julia Cameron, former wife of Martin Scorsese?

• 1:36:29Speaker 05

  I didn't know about that.

• 1:36:30Yasi Salek?

  You guys, you know about The Artist's Way? Okay, The Artist's Way is a book and it's so great. And it like, I actually did it over COVID, but it's like, It's almost like a guidebook of like how if you want to be an artist, it's like a thing that you go through for like, I don't know how long, like a month or whatever. And you do these like certain things, but one of the things that like is enduring afterwards is like every morning you write three pages freehand, just never look at it again off the top. There's all these other things in it that you do, like artist dates with yourself. It's just really cool to remind yourself of like what it means to be an artist. And it's okay to call yourself an artist and how that is to be in the world as an artist. I really recommend it.

• 1:37:11Speaker 03

  That's great advice.

• 1:37:12Yasi Salek?

  Thank you.

• 1:37:13Speaker 03

  I, this is kind of like rote, but like I do actually really subscribe to the idea of making the thing or trying to make the thing that you would want to enjoy. So to the extent that you're like technically able to do so, like I can't play drums, so I wouldn't be able to drum like that, but whenever I do something, I try to think about like, what would I actually want to read or listen to or whatever?

• 1:37:36Yasi Salek?

  Don't let him tell you the podcast can only be an hour long, you know what I mean? Do your own thing.

• 1:37:42Speaker 03

  Next question?

• 1:37:44Speaker 12

  Hi, everyone. Such a huge fan. I really, in the spirit of your vulnerability and telling your story about being in the, you know, the bathroom stall weeping openly.

• 1:37:57Speaker 12

  What is the most emo experience that you have had at a live music event? I know I have definitely wept openly, you know, seeing The Cure two years ago. That was just like mind blowing, so it, bonus points if it's an emo band, but emo experience.

• 1:38:13Speaker 03

  That's a really good question because it's like not specifically like just having your mind blown, but having your mind blown in a particularly emo way, right?

• 1:38:20Yasi Salek?

  I think so.

• 1:38:22Speaker 05

  Like countless ones at like smaller shows, like it just goes on and on. One time, like it was very nice. I was just, you know, regular, common, human depressed. And I remember at the end of the set, this kid came up to me and goes, I don't know why I did it. Maybe he just sensed I was bummed out or something like that. And he just like. He's patting me on the back and then he just says, "You are loved." I was like, "Oh, that's super nice." And it was like a really small show and I tend to like never go to big shows ever. One of my friends though, uh, uh, uh, he took me to, uh, see, um, the Skeleton Tree documentary by Nick.

• 1:39:00Speaker 05

  From the cave thing, it was like very intense and, um, and then he dragged me to Barclay's Center in New York to go see him play. And I was like, "I don't want to go to a fucking auditorium." And I went and I, I liked Nick Cave and I loved the Skeleton Tree. It really kind of connected with me. But I remember seeing him play Jubilee Street.

• 1:39:21Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:22Speaker 05

  I was like completely fucking blown away and transcended and like, it was, it was actually at, at that moment, I was like, "I really want my old band, Have Heart, to play a show again."

• 1:39:35Yasi Salek?

  Oh, that's awesome.

• 1:39:36Speaker 05

  And I was just so moved by how, how transformative music can be in a, in a, in a, in an exact moment, like live moment. It was, uh, yeah, it was, it was super cathartic. I think that like for me, it's about catharsis.

• 1:39:53Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, totally.

• 1:39:54Speaker 05

  And not so much just like, you know, an emotional outpouring. It's just like, have you, is something that has been on your mind that you, you just sort of kind of figured out? So those are, those are, that, that's probably the one that stands out in my mind. It's just watching Jubilee Street.

• 1:40:07Yasi Salek?

  Okay, Pat, you're an amazing guest. I'm proud of myself for asking you to be on this pod. Chris?

• 1:40:13Speaker 03

  Uh, I'll go off kind of similar to what, uh, a story Pat has. Like I saw Nutro Milk Hotel downstairs in the Middle East when they were touring for Aeroplane and they didn't give a fuck. Like they looked like freaks. They were playing saws and they were like had a trumpet player.

• 1:40:34Yasi Salek?

  Spiritual emo.

• 1:40:35Speaker 03

  But spiritually emo and also was like one of those like five, 10 times in a live show where you're like, "I've just completely left my body." And, um, I just, it was just like one of those things where I was like, "I'm, I'm never going to forget this for the rest of my life." In a very specific emotional way. Um, so I guess that's it.

• 1:40:52Speaker 05

  Can I add one more?

• 1:40:53Yasi Salek?

  Yes.

• 1:40:54Speaker 05

  Does anyone listen to Mira? Yeah, my wife introduced me to her a long time ago and we were broken up for a long time and I went to go see her at the Brighton Music Hall and I just, I was, I just, it was a very emotional time just watching her because like we weren't together, we were together in high school and stuff like that. That was like a very emo moment, but she's not really emo, but nonetheless though, she played Cold Cold Water and I was like, "Oh my God, this is unbelievable." Yeah, that was, that one stands out. I'm sorry, I had to get that out there.

• 1:41:28Yasi Salek?

  No, I love that. Wife guy.

• 1:41:30Speaker 05

  If you haven't heard that song, check it out.

• 1:41:33Yasi Salek?

  Top that, yeah. I mean, I have a good one and you're involved in it. It'll be my third one and I will top that. But first, I cried every, almost every show, I'm not gonna lie to you guys. I'm very moved by music. Two ones I remember really well are Pavement's first reunion, 2010.

• 1:41:48Speaker 05

  Hey, I was there. At Berklee?

• 1:41:50Yasi Salek?

  No Hollywood Bowl.

• 1:41:51Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:41:51Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:52Speaker 05

  I was at Berklee.

• 1:41:53Yasi Salek?

  I...

• 1:41:54Speaker 05

  With my sister.

• 1:41:55Yasi Salek?

  Hell yeah.

• 1:41:57Yasi Salek?

  I thought, I, they were like a band I was obsessed with and thought I was never gonna get to see Play Again and I just was crying. I was just crying. I was like, Summer Babe came on and I was like, so happy. And then another time with Dave Matthews Band, I was on a bit of mushrooms and I felt I connected with God. But the last one was in, was it February, Chris, of last year? Me and Chris went to see Cameron Winter at the Barnes Doll Art Center. I didn't bring my tiny violin with me, you guys, I'm really sorry, but it was, it was like mere weeks after my house burned down. So that was fun. And I was just like, I'd been listening to the album a lot. It was like my emotional support album, After

• 1:42:42Yasi Salek?

  the Fire. And I was just there with my buddy, like in this beautiful space and this beautiful music and I was just so happy to be, I'm gonna cry, I was just so happy to be alive. I was like, I don't care that my house burned down. I'm like, life is really beautiful. You know, I get to be here and like, see this incredible music and just like, it was really, it was really moving for me. So yeah, I did top that. How do you feel?

• 1:43:03Speaker 05

  We got time for one last question.

• 1:43:07Speaker 13

  Honored to be the last question and nervous, apparently. So I'm hoping that I can, alright, so I'm not gonna, I don't wanna get tomatoes thrown at me, but I'm not an emo kid. I was more of like a grunge kid during my emo years. Thank you. Yes, I do love life.

• 1:43:25Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, grunge kids famously love.

• 1:43:29Speaker 13

  Well, I'm hoping that I can describe a spiritually emo experience I had recently and for you to match me with an emo recommendation to set me off on my journey. So my spiritually emo experience recently was coming into the new year, Google searching my ex for the first time since we broke up five years ago.

• 1:43:53Speaker 13

  And bleaching my eyebrows and looking at myself in the mirror while listening to the Jeff Buckley episode of Van's Plane.

• 1:44:02Yasi Salek?

  Are you okay?

• 1:44:03Speaker 13

  I am okay against all odds.

• 1:44:06Yasi Salek?

  Okay, to match that energy, Googling the ex in the January.

• 1:44:11Speaker 13

  Can I add, I found out that he is now a pastor.

• 1:44:17Yasi Salek?

  Damn, honestly, that is kind of the best case scenario.

• 1:44:21Speaker 13

  But that story. He married God. He did tell me he was a born again Christian so that we could stop sleeping together and then I found out he was cheating on me the whole time, so.

• 1:44:30Yasi Salek?

  He likes emo music. I promise you. That guy loves Brand New.

• 1:44:37Yasi Salek?

  Okay, what matched? You have something?

• 1:44:39Speaker 05

  I got one. I got, I got, um, when I was in the, uh, fifth grade, I dated, um, I dated someone for two years, which is.

• 1:44:51Yasi Salek?

  What are you talking about?

• 1:44:53Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's right. It was the fifth grade to seventh grade. That's, that's real. After six months of dating in the fifth grade-

• 1:45:00Yasi Salek?

  Did I not say a wife guy? That's like such early wife guy behavior.

• 1:45:04Speaker 03

  Rookie of the year, wife guy, yeah.

• 1:45:07Speaker 05

  After six months of dating in the fifth grade, she came up to me at recess and said, "How come you've never talked to me before?" And I said, "Oh, do you want me to, should we talk?" And she was like, "Yeah." And we ended up, I ended up, I gave up sports and we just would, for recess for a year and a half, we would just walk around and I learned to talk. We would talk about music. I remember when Razor Blade Suitcase came out. We were like-

• 1:45:27Yasi Salek?

  Hell, yeah.

• 1:45:28Speaker 05

  We were like, "What do you think about, you know..."

• 1:45:31Yasi Salek?

  Swallow.

• 1:45:32Speaker 05

  There's, there's like a straight no chaser, you know? Like, we were like, "It's so depressing, we love it." Anyway, and it was, so it was like my first, like, love. And she, she dumped me, but-

• 1:45:46Speaker 03

  After two years.

• 1:45:47Speaker 05

  Over the, over the phone while "High and Dry" was playing.

• 1:45:51Yasi Salek?

  Ooh.

• 1:45:52Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:45:53Speaker 05

  Yeah. Pretty sure my whole entire family was listening to me cry.

• 1:45:57Yasi Salek?

  I think you misunderstood the assignment, but I do love that story. I love that.

• 1:46:01Speaker 05

  Just match?

• 1:46:02Yasi Salek?

  No, she wanted a recommendation of music that matches that.

• 1:46:05Speaker 05

  It's a High and Dry, my radio.

• 1:46:07Yasi Salek?

  I'm really glad that you misunderstood it, because I was, that's an incredible piece of information that I now know about you that is really insane.

• 1:46:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, good luck.

• 1:46:18Yasi Salek?

  That's okay, yeah. This might just be, and tell me if I'm off base, and I don't want to encourage further of this behavior. No, I'm fine. Okay. I recently listened to American football for three weeks straight or whatever, because I had to for my job, and it felt, it felt like that. Okay. Like, it felt like, I was like, "Ja, telephone ambulance. Need to go hospital right now, please." But it is really good music, so I just don't listen to it for three weeks straight.

• 1:46:50Speaker 03

  This band came up briefly, is not actually literally emo, but it's a great breakup record, if that's maybe what you're looking for.

• 1:46:57Yasi Salek?

  I don't know what I'm looking for anymore.

• 1:46:59Speaker 03

  Foolish by Superchunk is an incredible breakup record, so I recommend it.

• 1:47:04Yasi Salek?

  Not an emo band. Again, both of you not reading comprehension, but- That's okay, it was mostly for you.

• 1:47:09Speaker 03

  Keep it a breath.

• 1:47:10Yasi Salek?

  Thanks. Thank you.

• 1:47:11Speaker 03

  You guys, thank you so much for coming out in the freezing cold.

• 1:47:14Yasi Salek?

  This was wonderful.

• 1:47:15Speaker 03

  Thank you to Pat Flynn for joining us.

• 1:47:17Yasi Salek?

  Thank you, Pat Flynn. Thank you, Christopher Ryan. Thank you, Anchovies Boston. I love you so much. I'll think of you forever. And come back next week for a new episode of Bandsplain.

• 1:47:27Speaker 03

  Also, we'll be at the Coolidge tomorrow showing Repo Man. I believe it's at 9:30, is this?

• 1:47:32Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, I think doors are at 9 and the show's at 9:30 if you guys, uh...

• 1:47:36Speaker 03

  And we'll be hanging out at Coolidge like a little bit before then, so.

• 1:47:38Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, so come on. Oh, yeah, we didn't do the winner.

• 1:47:40Speaker 03

  Oh, who do you guys think won? If you think it was me, clap. Thank you. If you think it was Pat Flynn, clap.

• 1:47:51Yasi Salek?

  That was pretty good.

• 1:47:51Speaker 03

  If you think it was Yasi, clap. It's every Yasi live show that Yasi wins.

• 1:47:57Yasi Salek?

  Thank you, guys. I feel like it's a little unfair, but I'll take it. Thank you so much.

• 1:48:09Yasi Salek?

  If you liked what you heard today, subscribe for more episodes of Bandsplain. Our guests today were Chris Ryan and Patrick Flynn. This episode was produced by Rob Sunderland and edited by Adrian Bridges with help from Justin Sales. Executive producers for Bandsplain are Gina Dalback and me, Yasi Salek. Our gorgeous and catchy theme song was composed and performed by Bethany Cosentino and Jennifer Clavain and graciously recorded by Carlos de la Garza in Los Angeles, California. Special thanks to our producer emeritus, Producer Dylan, aka Dylan Tupper Rupert, and also Sean Fennessey, Elizabeth Fierman, and Anchovies Bar in Boston, Massachusetts. Come back every Thursday for a new episode of Bandsplain on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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