The Music of Skateboard Videos with Jerry Hsu

Yasi is joined by skater, photographer, and Sci-Fi Fantasy proprietor Jerry Hsu to break down how music has shaped skate videos, from their DIY, skit-filled ’80s roots to today’s high-budget, cinematic productions. They dig into Jerry’s iconic part in Enjoi’s 'Bag of Suck' video, make the case for Dinosaur Jr. as a timeless skate soundtrack, and reflect on skate videos’ long-standing role in music discovery. Host: Yasi Salek @yasisalekGuest: Jerry Hsu @internetfamousProducer: Rob SundermannEditor: Adrian BridgesAdditional Production Supervision: Justin SaylesTheme Song: Bethany Cosentino Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Yasi Salek?

  Hi guys, it's Yasi. Just wanted to pop on here real quick for the episode to tell you in case you haven't heard yet that Bandsplain is doing a live show in Boston. We are joining the incredible Something in the Way Festival. Chris Ryan and I will be joined by Patrick Flynn of the god tier band Fiddlehead at the Sinclair in Cambridge on Friday, January 30th at 8:00 PM. Tickets are on sale right now, and there's a little bit more, babe. There's a little more because we're also doing a late night movie screening of one of our favorite movies of all time, Repo Man. Ciara and I will be doing a gorgeous little intro of that film at the Coolidge Corner Theater on Saturday, January 31st.

• 0:42Yasi Salek?

  All the information and where to buy tickets, you can find that at theringer.com/events. So please, if you're in the Boston general area, come out and join us. It's gonna be really fun. Friday, January 30th for Bandsplain Live at the Sinclair in Cambridge, and Saturday, January 31st for the screening of Repo Man at the Coolidge Corner Theater. And the tickets, again, are at theringer.com/events. Hope to see you there.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  What's with this band anyway? I don't get it, can you please explain? Wait, like Bandsplain?

• 1:30Speaker 01

  Never heard this band in my life. Oh, you haven't? I'd love that. Really? Why? Yeah, I love this song. Oh, I don't know that one. Bandsplain, Bandsplain, Bandsplain. I really hate this band! Whatever, I'm their biggest fan. Bandsplain, Bandsplain, Bandsplain. Bandsplain. Bandsplain!

• 1:58Yasi Salek?

  Hello and welcome to Bandsplain. I am your host, Yasi Salek. This is usually a show where I invite an expert guest on to help me explain a cult band or iconic artist. Today's episode is a little different. Today's episode, you guys, it's about the music of skateboarding videos. Hello, fellow kids. My guest today is storm flip pioneer, dark slide prodigy, and sci-fi fantasy CEO Gerald Sue. Is your full, is your full name Gerald? Have we ever talked about this?

• 2:31Speaker 02

  I don't think we've ever talked about it, but it's just Jerry.

• 2:33Yasi Salek?

  Maybe we have, yeah.

• 2:35Speaker 02

  It's total like just immigrant, kind of like, oh, we'll just pick a name.

• 2:39Yasi Salek?

  Did we figure out, did your parent, were they like, they had early exposure to Tom and Jerry? Like, where did this name come into their consciousness?

• 2:46Speaker 02

  I have no idea. I feel like I asked them one time and the story was so boring that I didn't even register. Like, I think they just kind of randomly chose like a, like a, an American name or whatever.

• 2:57Yasi Salek?

  It's funny, and I say this with all the love in my heart for you. It is a kind of a cartoonish name, and not just because of Tom and Jerry. So it is very funny that your parents were like, here's a serious American name we're gonna give our son.

• 3:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's kind of on brand, actually, but like, yeah, like, it is kind of a-

• 3:14Yasi Salek?

  Well, it's not that it's on brand, it's nominative determinism. It determined your personality.

• 3:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, that might also-

• 3:19Yasi Salek?

  Because your brother has a more normal name, doesn't he?

• 3:21Speaker 02

  My brother's name is Jason.

• 3:22Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, and he turned out quite normal.

• 3:24Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:25Yasi Salek?

  Oh, like, Jason, Jason's kind of like an 80s Hawkeye name.

• 3:28Speaker 02

  That's true. But he definitely, like, the determinism, yeah, he's like, totally, he's Jason and I'm Jerry. Yeah. I mean, people try to tell me, like, oh, Jerry, no, it totally fits, it's, it's, it's great. And I'm just like, that doesn't make me feel better. Yeah, Jerry's a, Jerry is a very strange name.

• 3:46Yasi Salek?

  It's a great name, though. Like, what are you unique? You could, like, people could say, at least in this world, Jerry, and no last name needed. You're like Madonna.

• 3:57Speaker 02

  I mean, there's a couple other Jerries.

• 3:59Yasi Salek?

  Who?

• 4:00Speaker 02

  Are you just talking, like, in my world?

• 4:02Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 4:02Speaker 02

  Oh, then, yes, you're correct.

• 4:03Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, in the world, there are a couple other Jerry Lewis.

• 4:06Speaker 02

  Oh, okay, yeah, then I'm the one, yeah.

• 4:09Yasi Salek?

  Jerry, thank you so much for coming on today to talk about the music of skateboarding films.

• 4:15Speaker 02

  My pleasure. I'm so happy to be here.

• 4:17Yasi Salek?

  We talk about them a lot on the show because, well, for obvious reasons, because I think that, especially in the early to mid 90s, but you know what? I did a little recon with some younger friends and I think it was sort of an enduring thing that it was just a really big way for people to discover music they had never heard of, whether or not it was new or old. Like, it was just like, not only is it like, you wouldn't have heard this song before, but it comes wrapped in this like, cool package where it's like cosigned by something. You're like, oh.

• 4:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:56Yasi Salek?

  You know?

• 4:57Speaker 02

  Totally. Yeah.

• 4:58Yasi Salek?

  So I thought it was really interesting and you, when we first had about this, you really blew my mind with how much you knew about it, which I guess, I mean, I guess it is your bread and butter.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I would also say, uh, like, I am not really an expert on, on this stuff compared to like, the diehards out there like.

• 5:15Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, well, I didn't ask John Miner to come on or whatever, but like, you know, shout out John Miner. But I asked you because you're my friend and I knew you would do it.

• 5:24Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 5:24Yasi Salek?

  And also because you're a smart, erudite, well spoken and graceful man.

• 5:29Speaker 02

  Well, I don't know about erudite, but.

• 5:31Yasi Salek?

  Is it just because you don't know what the word means?

• 5:33Speaker 02

  It means learned.

• 5:34Yasi Salek?

  Exactly. So you are.

• 5:36Speaker 02

  You got me there.

• 5:37Yasi Salek?

  There you go.

• 5:37Speaker 02

  Sorry.

• 5:37Yasi Salek?

  Jerry, you're now in the echelon of like, top five guests in terms of the level of commitment and research that you've done for this episode.

• 5:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, that really comes from a place of like, my like raging insecurity. I was just like, I should probably be pretty prepared for this one.

• 5:54Yasi Salek?

  I do apologize. I forgot about the, kind of the main thing is that you're like a really beautiful and talented artist.

• 6:00Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 6:02Yasi Salek?

  Storm flip pioneer.

• 6:03Speaker 02

  There it is.

• 6:04Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, there it is. Jerry, do you wanna, before we like dive in, do you wanna walk me through, what was your intro to skate videos in general? Like, do you remember the first one you ever saw? Were you already skateboarding when you saw a skate video? Or was it sort of like, you saw a skate video and you were like, I want to do that?

• 6:23Speaker 02

  So I started skating, I think like Christmas 92. I was 11. I just turned 11. And then I didn't know anything about, like, anything. Like, it was just this mysterious, like, culture or whatever that was like kind of hidden, but it was like right there. And I didn't know anything. I got my skateboard. Me and my friend got skateboards for Christmas and we just like. Just rode around and we knew what ollies were. We knew what kickflips were.

• 6:50Yasi Salek?

  Were there no other skateboarders in your town?

• 6:52Speaker 02

  No, I grew up, I mean, at that time, skateboarding was, was really small, very, very small.

• 6:58Yasi Salek?

  We started at the same time, isn't that weird? I didn't, I didn't progress to the levels that you did. But you guys, just so you know, that's my original skateboard from when I was 11 years old. The C S S?

• 7:09Speaker 02

  CCS.

• 7:09Yasi Salek?

  CCS catalog. I don't remember, it was 30 years ago, that skateboard was 30 years old. Anyway, it's gone.

• 7:15Speaker 02

  It's a great choice.

• 7:16Yasi Salek?

  Thank you. I thought it was really cool.

• 7:17Speaker 02

  I wanted that board when I was a kid and never, never got it. Oh, but yeah, so just, just didn't know anything. Going into the skate shop was extremely scary, like.

• 7:27Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, so intimidating.

• 7:29Speaker 02

  Kids don't, I mean, like, no one understands, if you weren't there, like, how scary it was.

• 7:34Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, there was like a 17 year old guy in there who was like, what are you doing here?

• 7:38Speaker 02

  Or just like, like you would just pick something out and they'd be like, huh.

• 7:43Speaker 02

  Nice, or something, you know, like, oh, cool, nice choice, you know, just like, so brutal. Anyways, I didn't even know skateboard videos existed when we, we started, we, we had like Thrasher at like the supermarket and we would get that. And we didn't know about videos and we kind of didn't know what skateboarding looked like, kind of. I mean, besides like movies, like Back to the Future or Gleaming the Cube or something like that. Or whatever was just like in popular culture, but like, we didn't really like know what it was actually like. And I remember my mom took me to the skate shop and then.

• 8:13Yasi Salek?

  Shout out to Sue, she really, she really acclimated to America. She was like, I'm taking my son Jerry to the skate shop. I don't know what this is.

• 8:20Speaker 02

  I used to tell so many stories about like, like all the like horrible parts of growing up with them, but like, looking back, they were so supportive. Oh my God, they were like the best, but, so you go to the skate shop and you want to get in and out as quick as possible. And so I just go up to the video.

• 8:37Yasi Salek?

  Shrapnel from the.

• 8:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, so you just want to like, I, I just picked, the first, when I tell people this, sometimes they trip out, but the first video I ever saw was 411 number three. Cause I just picked one that I thought looked cool.

• 8:48Yasi Salek?

  From the skate shop?

• 8:49Speaker 02

  From the skate shop.

• 8:50Yasi Salek?

  Okay.

• 8:50Speaker 02

  And brought it home and watched my first skate video. And that's the first skate video I ever saw. And that, that experience obviously was. Mind blowing.

• 9:00Yasi Salek?

  Best of 411, volume three?

• 9:01Speaker 02

  No, it's just 411, number three.

• 9:04Yasi Salek?

  Okay, because that would have been earlier than Best of 411.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, those Best of ones came out later.

• 9:07Yasi Salek?

  What do you remember from the video? Who was in it?

• 9:10Speaker 02

  Scott Johnston, Eric Costin, like people that I ended up knowing later in life. And yeah, like because it was a video magazine. That was kind of strange, too, because like I didn't pick a like a like a company video where it was just like part, part, part credits. It was like this whole, like, there's like articles about cities. There's like these things called profiles where it was just like basically a video part for a pro. These things called Wheels of Fortunes, which were like little like two minute video parts of like amps and stuff. So, yeah, it was it was a weird way to be introduced to skate videos. But 411 became such a like ubiquitous part of skateboard video culture for like from then till, you know, however, many years later.

• 9:52Yasi Salek?

  Do you remember anything about the music in the 411 three?

• 9:57Speaker 02

  Well, I'll just say that the intro music to 411, the Boxcar song was so it just be it like, I think for skateboarders like of a certain age, when they hear that song, it's like visceral, you know, like they

• 10:09Yasi Salek?

  Right, it's like a little

• 10:11Speaker 02

  You feel like, oh, wow, I'm about to see something really new and impressive, you know, like so

• 10:16Yasi Salek?

  Soul, the Boxcar.

• 10:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:29Speaker 02

  That was the first thing I heard and then it immediately it just goes into the Scott Johnston part where it's hip hop. And I think like that was important for me to be like, oh, like skaters like hip hop.

• 10:42Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 10:42Speaker 02

  And I

• 10:43Yasi Salek?

  What were you listening to at a tender age of 11 in San Jose?

• 10:46Speaker 02

  So my parents didn't really listen to music. So I was hear stories about people like, oh, my parents listened to this and this is what I grew up with. And I'm just like

• 10:53Yasi Salek?

  Like my parents listened to Persian music. Actually, my mom was really into Madonna, so I did have some pop music. But like other like pop music, but I'm like

• 11:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, there was like

• 11:01Yasi Salek?

  Oh, yeah, my dad put me on a black Sabbath. I'm like, must be fucking nice.

• 11:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's that's totally insane. Like, because in my house, there was, we didn't have a record player, but there was like four records. There was like an Elvis record. A Beatles record and then probably like two like Tricoski.

• 11:15Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 11:16Speaker 02

  That was like it. Like my mom ended up getting into classical music more when I was became a teenager.

• 11:20Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 11:21Speaker 02

  But there was no music in my house. Like when we got in the car, it was like NPR. That's it.

• 11:25Yasi Salek?

  This is ninety two. So, right? You said eleven?

• 11:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:29Yasi Salek?

  Cause we're the same age.

• 11:29Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 11:30Yasi Salek?

  So, I mean, that was peak kind of like MTV and grunge. Like, were you, were you fucking with MTV?

• 11:35Speaker 02

  So, we didn't have MTV. Like, we didn't have cable. Like, I had to go to my friend's house to watch MTV.

• 11:40Yasi Salek?

  Wow.

• 11:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, we had, like, this is so classic, but we had a satellite in the backyard, so my dad could watch his, like, Chinese shows or whatever, you know, like, or whatever, sports or whatever. Like, we didn't have cable. And so, but at that time, I think, like, I was just starting to be like, okay, like, music is probably, you know, a way for me to create some kind of identity or something. And so, I was like, okay, like, what's going on here? And then, at that time, I was sort of into, like, just like, radio hip hop and, um, probably like, like, I had Metallica, The Black Album. Like, you know, I just kind of like, was like, what is the most easily accessible stuff?

• 12:23Yasi Salek?

  I guess radio hip hop at that time would have been pretty good. It was like Dr. Dre, The Chronic, Snoop Dogg, Tail End, or something else.

• 12:31Speaker 02

  I didn't even get that far into it. I feel like it was like, it was like Naughty by Nature and Criss Cross.

• 12:36Yasi Salek?

  Oh, OPP and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and Jump Jump. Yeah, yeah, totally.

• 12:39Speaker 02

  Um, but, but at the same time as skating, I sort, I sort of like, started sort of exploring and, and getting really into certain things.

• 12:47Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 12:47Speaker 02

  Like, I went through this total, like, death metal phase in seventh grade, that, like, like, like, where it was like, uh, it was like Morbid Angel, Carcass.

• 12:56Yasi Salek?

  Wow.

• 12:56Speaker 02

  And Sepultura and like, and then like, Pantera. Pantera was the first, um, show I ever went to at San Jose State, where I like lied to my mom and like, was like, I'm sleeping over at John's house.

• 13:08Yasi Salek?

  Classic immigrant kid, first gen kid move is I'm sleeping over at so and so's house.

• 13:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:14Yasi Salek?

  As my dad once said, that's a loophole in the system.

• 13:17Speaker 02

  True. And we exploited the

• 13:20Yasi Salek?

  We exploited the fuck out of that loophole, babe. They don't have a curfew.

• 13:24Speaker 02

  And his dad took us. His dad just like put in earplugs and just sat there.

• 13:28Yasi Salek?

  I don't know.

• 13:28Speaker 02

  While his like

• 13:30Yasi Salek?

  White kids don't know.

• 13:31Speaker 02

  These old twelve year olds.

• 13:32Yasi Salek?

  I don't know. We had to, the hoops we had to jump through to become cultured.

• 13:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:38Yasi Salek?

  Do you, I mean, it's funny that you say this because it's making me think of something that I think is pretty like an impenetrable truth or whatever, but like, I feel the reason that skateboarding is such a culture, you know, is because it's so intrinsically tied to things like music and clothing, you know? It's like, it's really like beyond a sport, it's like a subculture. And I can't like, I can't separate for myself skateboarding from music because I have so many memories of like the videos and the songs, but also I feel like, and you know better because you know more of them, but it seems like skateboarders like are also, you know, tend to be into like cool music or like be into punk or be into rap or like be into like things a little bit under the surface.

• 14:23Yasi Salek?

  Would you agree with that?

• 14:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, in general, that's like totally true and especially of like that time.

• 14:28Yasi Salek?

  Of that era.

• 14:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, because like I think like, you know, skateboarding today is like way more accessible and, and accepted and uh, kind of cool. And back then it was like, I mean, if you, if you wanted to skate and if you wanted to present as a skater, like you had to be prepared to be bullied.

• 14:46Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 14:46Speaker 02

  And um, made fun of, et cetera, et cetera. And also just like unattractive, you know, it's like just wasn't an attractive thing.

• 14:53Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 14:54Speaker 02

  At that time. And so I think, yeah, so the people who were, were drawn to it, like they really, you know, they had to kind of work for it. They really had to love it and they tended to just be more creative, like outsider people.

• 15:07Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, weirdos.

• 15:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think they're just like, is this?

• 15:09Yasi Salek?

  It's like a chicken or the egg situation.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  Well, it was just like, I think like, you know, if you're just like into transgressive stuff like, you know, skateboarding, kind of, kind of checked a lot of the boxes.

• 15:19Yasi Salek?

  Right, right.

• 15:20Speaker 02

  You know, like as far as like, you know, that's why so many skaters, I feel like, end up becoming musicians and painters, photographers, artists in general, writers, like, all that stuff, um, drug addicts.

• 15:30Yasi Salek?

  Well, it is the only sport that you can get fucked up all the time.

• 15:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:35Yasi Salek?

  And still.

• 15:36Speaker 02

  And still kind of.

• 15:37Yasi Salek?

  Still really do a high level of athleticism.

• 15:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think like the lack of structure is also very attractive. I think like when I was a kid, like basically the, the whole like no rules aspect, you know, like, because like people were playing, uh, organized sports like soccer, baseball, all this stuff. And I never, um, was interested in doing any of that stuff. So, um, but I was still sort of like athletic.

• 16:00Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 16:00Speaker 02

  And so like, finding skateboarding was kind of perfect.

• 16:03Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, it's like even beyond no rules, like breaking rules. Like there's no rules and you're not allowed to go here. We're gonna go there, you know? So like, does appeal, maybe like you're saying to the transgressive element and some people who are like, I wanna do the thing I'm not allowed to do.

• 16:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think at the time too, it sort of overlaps with that, like 12 year old, kind of like stand by me age where you are kind of discovering who you are. And there is this like need for rebellion and like, you're sort of like, you know, you're sort of testing the boundaries of your environment and like, what's, what can you do? Like what? And so when you start skating and you start being around other people who are also kind of like, wanna take risks, it's exciting. So you, you know, like, like trespassing, jumping fences, uh, like, you know, just basic destruction, all that stuff. It was just kind of like, it all was so like seductive.

• 16:53Yasi Salek?

  And guess what? Even if you can't skateboard well, you can just hang out with skateboarders and jump the fence and drink beers like I did.

• 17:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, that's kind of like.

• 17:03Yasi Salek?

  I did my best. Look at that. Does that, does that all play a role?

• 17:05Speaker 02

  There's some scratches. Yeah, there are some scratches there.

• 17:07Yasi Salek?

  I could do an ollie. Not always.

• 17:10Speaker 02

  I, I don't doubt it.

• 17:11Yasi Salek?

  I was just not good at it. Okay, I'm sorry.

• 17:13Speaker 02

  But that is sort of the nice thing about skateboarding is, yeah, even if you weren't good at it, like, you know, there was still like a lot of ways to fit in.

• 17:21Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 17:21Speaker 02

  You know, like pick up a camera, you know, or like just, also just like hang out. Like it's just, if you were cool, like it didn't really matter. Like we, not all my friends were good at skating.

• 17:31Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 17:31Speaker 02

  But it was, you know, it was just like the best to hang out with them every day.

• 17:34Yasi Salek?

  Okay, well.

• 17:37Yasi Salek?

  I don't, because obviously this is a band plan. I'm said some I do my band plan thing, which is talk about the first ever skate video in 1965. It's called Skater Dater. Have you seen it?

• 17:47Speaker 02

  No.

• 17:49Yasi Salek?

  It doesn't have any music, actually, but it is interesting. I watched it. It's honestly kind of cool because the way that it's cool just to see a period of time that you weren't there for and like you can even see that like the earliest skateboarders were still cool, like against their environment of the 60s. Like it's worth a watch. It's pretty cool. It's like 17 minutes long. It's on YouTube. But then like maybe the more, the next more major thing was the Bones Brigade video show, which obviously you know about from 1984, Pau Peralta. So it's pretty fun, too.

• 18:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're, they're weird.

• 18:22Yasi Salek?

  They're, that's what, like even, again, even in Skater Dater, you notice this, there's like an outsider art element to these videos. Like we were texting last night and I was like telling you how like I watched the Androida Mouse and started crying, but I was just like, I miss the time of, of feeling like this connection to this thing where like you didn't feel a connection to something before that. And it was so exciting. Like I felt the same way when I went to my first Lollapalooza when I was like 12. Like it was just like, oh my God, these people are kind of like me, you know? And like, and you hadn't maybe felt that way before because like this was still very much the time of like jocks and cheerleaders were cool and like, like having sort of these sort of interests wasn't how you fit in.

• 19:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:08Yasi Salek?

  Right?

• 19:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, totally. I think an interesting part about those bones, some of those Bones Brigade videos is like, so they're not like, they're not like hyper masculine in any way. They're, they're like goofy and there's skits. And like the way that like Stacy like made those things, it was sort of, it was just so, like the production value was pretty high, but it was also very like homemade feeling.

• 19:30Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 19:30Speaker 02

  And loose. Yeah. And, uh, but they're definitely like strange.

• 19:34Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 19:36Speaker 02

  Like definitely not until like 8th Street comes along where like then it sort of starts to feel like, okay, this is more of a like, this is kind of more feels. Right to me.

• 19:47Yasi Salek?

  That's nineteen eighty-eight, H Street's Shackled Me Now. I actually had never seen it and I was like, this is really fucking cool for nineteen eighty-eight. Like, that's, this is the one that starts with those twin ladies. So, it's so fucking lynch-y.

• 19:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:59Yasi Salek?

  And they're like, what do you guys think about skateboarding? There's like just these twin women in these insane outfits, like walking down the street, maybe in San Francisco, I couldn't tell where it was.

• 20:07Speaker 02

  They are in San Francisco.

• 20:08Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 20:08Speaker 02

  They're kind of, they've been in like so many skate videos.

• 20:10Yasi Salek?

  Those ladies?

• 20:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, those two sisters.

• 20:12Yasi Salek?

  But I was just like, wow, this is, like, immediately I was like, oh, let's fucking go. Like, so we're being weird.

• 20:18Speaker 03

  What do you think about skateboarding?

• 20:20Speaker 04

  Well, I think it's a little dangerous. I wouldn't try it.

• 20:22Speaker 03

  Alright.

• 20:23Speaker 04

  You look like you're having fun and that's amazing.

• 20:26Speaker 02

  I think like, once it starts getting into that sort of like, lo-fi, more DIY, more punk.

• 20:32Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 20:33Speaker 02

  Type feeling, that's when it starts to get good, to me, yeah.

• 20:37Yasi Salek?

  Some of the good stuff.

• 20:38Speaker 02

  But it's before my time, like, you know, like, so, I, I like, but once I saw that stuff, I started to, I started to realize like, okay, like, I, I understand the sort of, the, the, um, sequence in which like, this influences this, and then this influences, and then that's how we're, we're at, where we're at now.

• 20:55Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 20:56Speaker 02

  So, that was cool.

• 20:57Yasi Salek?

  We'll get into where we're at now. I wanted to ask you, like, just to break it down, like, what are the different types of skate videos? Just to like, put the landscape out there for people. In case there's someone listening to this who's like, I don't, I've never seen a skateboarding video. I just like Beyonce. We're gonna give you the information.

• 21:13Speaker 02

  Well, so, I guess I'll just say that, like, there are videos that, uh, like a skateboard company will put out.

• 21:19Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 21:19Speaker 02

  Uh, like a board company, shoe company, whatever, and it's, and typically it's just like, intro, part of a skater, like they're individual skating for a few minutes, and then like, a bunch of those, and then the credits.

• 21:32Yasi Salek?

  This is a very rudimentary question, but what is the point of these? Is it like, pure marketing? Is it like, To make money on the product of a video, is it kind of both? Is it just expect, it just became expected like at some point that like that's what you do if you have a company?

• 21:47Speaker 02

  I mean, I can't really speak for like originally why they started, but like it is essentially um your most powerful marketing tool.

• 21:54Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 21:55Speaker 02

  As a skateboard company, it's like the way that you like uh you can like show the people that you sponsor and your brand identity like all at the same time. And and I think as you know, because skateboarders make these things, like outsiders don't come in and make these things like skateboarders make them. It it did like pretty instantly become like a medium, you know, it's like a, it's like a, it's like an art form within skateboarding. And I think it just sort of naturally was probably like instantly that way. But at the end of the day, yeah, it is just a a marketing tool.

• 22:27Yasi Salek?

  Well, it makes sense because like on even another level where it's like skateboarding is not a typical sport in the sense where the other sports like you watch these people on television. These things are televised. So like you're like, oh shit, you see, you know, LeBron James, think those whatever like. To see a skateboard athlete do what they do best, like this was, this was the way, right? Except for photos in print magazines, which maybe are not as impactful as seeing a moving image of a moving sport.

• 22:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's no, because like we had magazines with sequences in them.

• 23:02Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 23:02Speaker 02

  But yeah, but like, you know, they're like nine, 10, 11, 12 frames and it's like you, I mean, like it is, it can't compare to what like watching a video.

• 23:12Yasi Salek?

  The talkies.

• 23:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, and also, and also I will say that like, like the videos typically were filled with things you had never seen before.

• 23:21Yasi Salek?

  You mean tricks?

• 23:22Speaker 02

  Tricks, yeah, like there was just things that you, like you didn't think were possible or you, you know, like that happened all the time. Sometimes something would come out and you would be like, I cannot believe what I just saw.

• 23:32Yasi Salek?

  That's what I read about your storm flip.

• 23:35Speaker 02

  I didn't, I mean, also I didn't invent that or anything that was just.

• 23:38Yasi Salek?

  It just said it was the first time it was seen in a video. Is that wrong?

• 23:41Speaker 02

  Probably.

• 23:42Yasi Salek?

  Okay, well, I just read it off.

• 23:43Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 23:43Yasi Salek?

  You need to, you need to have a chat with your Wikipedia person.

• 23:47Speaker 02

  I know. Especially about that photo. I hate the photo. Someone please change it for me.

• 23:54Yasi Salek?

  I I'm I'm partial to this photo. It feels very 2012. I don't know what year is 2008.

• 24:02Speaker 02

  No, that's probably like, yeah, like oh, six.

• 24:06Yasi Salek?

  It's like white sunglasses is really like such a time and a place, you know?

• 24:10Speaker 02

  This is like, yeah, like American apparel, like.

• 24:18Yasi Salek?

  That was you one time and my therapist would say that you should put your arm around that Jerry and embrace him into your heart and soul.

• 24:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, sometimes there's just nothing you can do.

• 24:28Yasi Salek?

  There's nothing you can do. That was you. You wore those white sunglasses.

• 24:31Speaker 02

  I actually, okay, just I we were at a spanking drove me to a place. Those are the only sunglasses in his car. I didn't choose those.

• 24:38Yasi Salek?

  Okay, you're clearing up.

• 24:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm really, I'm really.

• 24:40Yasi Salek?

  Setting the record straight on the white sunglasses.

• 24:42Speaker 02

  I'm acting so desperate about this photo. Anyway, let's move on.

• 24:47Yasi Salek?

  Okay, so company ones, those are maybe the most typical ones.

• 24:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:51Yasi Salek?

  Right. And then what about video magazines?

• 24:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, so there's video magazines like 411 and like, I guess Static was one of them. Puzzle is one from Europe. And those are basically like, it's a video, which was typically about 45 to 60 minutes. And they just had all these sections that was like, kind of just based on a magazine. And I actually talked to Josh Friedberg, who created 411.

• 25:18Yasi Salek?

  When you were doing your deep research.

• 25:21Speaker 02

  I was doing my deep dive and it was actually so fascinating because he, I was like, how did this even come about? And basically he was working at New Deal and he was doing artwork and he and the and Steve Douglas asked him to like, hey, can you like, um, make this zine that's going to come with one of the boards? And in the zine was going to be like, they were trying to take screen grabs. Of video footage of the riders and like put them like Xerox them into this Xerox zine. And it was just becoming this huge nightmare. And then I don't know who who like posited this, but someone's like, well, why don't we just make a video magazine or or something?

• 26:02Yasi Salek?

  Right, like a video.

• 26:03Speaker 02

  Or someone said like,

• 26:03Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 26:04Speaker 02

  Or someone maybe called the zine a video magazine and then someone just it just clicked somewhere. There was like video magazine. Well, why don't we just make a video magazine? So that's kind of like where they started.

• 26:14Yasi Salek?

  Invented the form.

• 26:15Speaker 02

  And then they invented four one one, the the video magazine form. And I find that like so fascinating. And then even and then with the music in the video, like I guess Josh told me that Steve Douglas, like through his connections or whatever, just went out there and just found music that was like gratis or whatever that they could use for without paying for it.

• 26:37Yasi Salek?

  Like, so you would just like ask people or or artists or labels or whatever.

• 26:42Speaker 02

  I think they would just go straight to a label and be like, hey, is there anything that you have that we can use? And they'll be like, well, you know, we have this. And actually, like, I found out that a lot of music in skateboard videos did end up in videos because of like actions like that, where people just straight up just called Epitaph. And was like, hey, like, do you have anything lying around? Maybe it's not out yet that we could use? And they would just kind of like sell it like, hey, it's going to be in this skateboard video. And a lot of skaters are going to see it.

• 27:10Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, you're hitting your target demo.

• 27:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:13Yasi Salek?

  Okay, then what about the like Transworld and Thrasher videos? So those are like a secret third thing.

• 27:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, so those Transworld videos were actually like really important. They they they put together a lot of like very talented people to make those videos. And so those would be they're they're formatted like a like just a company video. But they're basically like a magazine who decided like, oh, we want to make videos too. Like, we have the resources to make videos, so we're going to do it. And they were very successful with it.

• 27:48Yasi Salek?

  I have a dumb question.

• 27:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:50Yasi Salek?

  So obviously, in a company video, the company is the one that pays for like you guys to go on trips and go out and get footage. Where is the footage for the other videos coming from?

• 28:02Speaker 02

  For four and one, it's really they they, once it got to a certain like level, they could they could just pay people's salary to go out and film people. So they would film like. Um, they would pay like, uh, like Anthony Clairwell is a filmer. They paid Anthony to like, basically go out into the world and find people to like, hey, like, do you want to film a part for four and one?

• 28:26Yasi Salek?

  Okay.

• 28:26Speaker 02

  And, and then as the skater, you don't get paid like.

• 28:30Yasi Salek?

  Was there any politics where like your company would be like, well, why are you like, why are you burning? Like what we could have used for our video? Landing tricks for that video?

• 28:42Speaker 02

  Yeah. So like.

• 28:43Yasi Salek?

  Look at me trying to understand sports.

• 28:45Speaker 02

  You pulled it off.

• 28:46Yasi Salek?

  Thank you so much.

• 28:47Speaker 02

  No, but, uh, like, I think I never heard of anything like that happening, but in theory, like that could happen, but I think at that time, there weren't that many company videos coming out.

• 28:58Yasi Salek?

  It was just like, all exposure is good exposure.

• 29:01Speaker 02

  And the, the exposure of four and one was so vast.

• 29:05Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 29:05Speaker 02

  That like, if I was like, hey, I'm going to film, I'm going to film this four and one part.

• 29:09Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  Like my sponsors would be really happy about that. And.

• 29:12Yasi Salek?

  You're famously in issue 20, Wheels of Fortune.

• 29:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:17Yasi Salek?

  Nineteen ninety seven.

• 29:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. That's, that was me. So in terms of like, they're not that different from company videos. So it was like, but I feel like there was, there was more of like an artistic flair. I think like the art, like a certain type of artistic, uh, there's many artistic flares in skateboard videos, but like, whatever became the norm in like the mid, like the from two thousand to two thousand and ten, like those transwell videos, I think really, because the people who made those videos really influenced how skateboard videos were made for like the next 10 years.

• 29:48Yasi Salek?

  Got it. I have another sort of like in the weeds question. You, so you're like, okay, four, one, one had these like filmers. Are they the ones that decide who they go to ask to film? Like, is there an editor? This is what I'm saying. Is there a curator of these videos? Who's like, here's my list of guys and women and everyone else. Go ask them if you can film with them for this issue.

• 30:12Speaker 02

  I feel like, I don't know exactly how it worked, but I would say Josh Friedberg was probably like the editor in chief.

• 30:17Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 30:18Speaker 02

  And then he has all these filmers all over the world that are, you know, some are on salaries, some are probably just freelance. And like, they're just like, they just probably pitch stuff to him.

• 30:26Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 30:27Speaker 02

  And then you, and then he'll just choose like where it goes. And it doesn't have to be like, if you're filming like this guy for the next month and you get like an adequate amount of footage, it's like, you don't have to put it in the next issue. It's just wherever it's gonna fit.

• 30:39Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 30:39Speaker 02

  We'll put it there.

• 30:40Yasi Salek?

  Okay, that makes sense. Okay. And then the, the other one is like independent videos.

• 30:45Speaker 02

  Right. So I guess that would be, that would be like when like a shop in like Kansas City or Amherst, Massachusetts or whatever, when they wanna like make their regional team video thing. That's sort of another style of video.

• 30:59Yasi Salek?

  Did any of those like really take off?

• 31:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think probably the most notable ones would be like the PJ Lad one for Coliseum. And, um, I mean, those Tilt Mode videos started out as NC Board Shop videos.

• 31:13Yasi Salek?

  Okay.

• 31:14Speaker 02

  Um, FTC Pinocchio that Aaron Mesa made. Yeah, there's a bunch actually, but those are the ones that come to mind that like were really, that really like broke out into like sort of global recognition.

• 31:27Yasi Salek?

  Okay, cool.

• 31:32Yasi Salek?

  Now that we've painted the landscape, this, I feel like maybe most people already know, but I didn't know this. Can you tell people how a song is chosen for a skate video for an individual part?

• 31:48Speaker 02

  So it's honestly kind of all over the place. It's.

• 31:53Yasi Salek?

  There's many different.

• 31:54Speaker 02

  There's many. So I think like you gotta have to think about it like, first think about it like there are all these different eras of how skateboard videos are made.

• 32:04Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 32:04Speaker 02

  But there is a through line. But I, I would just say that like basically there is, there's usually like one guy who is like making the video. He's like out there filming. He is the John Minor, the Jacob Rosenberg, like the Greg Hunt, the, you know, Mike Turnasky, the Dave. Boss Barker, whatever. And like, he's sort of the director of the whole thing.

• 32:26Yasi Salek?

  Okay.

• 32:26Speaker 02

  And, and basically, like, I asked a lot of people about this, and just from my personal experience, like, they're generally the ones who like, kind of find the music and choose the music. Unless the skater is sort of more, um, like, wants to be more involved. The skater like, kind of chooses how much involvement they want.

• 32:44Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 32:44Speaker 02

  Like, there's-

• 32:45Yasi Salek?

  I would have thought that the skaters, given what we talked about earlier, would want to be involved heavily in what their song was.

• 32:52Speaker 02

  Some skaters don't care at all. Some skaters are just like, no, you, I trust you, you deal with it. It's just not their thing.

• 32:59Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 32:59Speaker 02

  And then other skaters, like, I feel like, sort of Heath.

• 33:03Yasi Salek?

  Kurt Jarrett.

• 33:04Speaker 02

  Heath Kurt Jarrett, like Kareem, Mike Carroll, like, those are examples of people that, like, are very involved.

• 33:09Yasi Salek?

  Don't forget my guy Pat, who loves Primus.

• 33:12Speaker 02

  Oh, I looked into that.

• 33:15Yasi Salek?

  Pat, what's his last name?

• 33:16Speaker 02

  Duffy.

• 33:16Yasi Salek?

  Pat Duffy.

• 33:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I looked into that and I found out, like, that there's more of a Primus connection than I previously realized.

• 33:24Yasi Salek?

  I'm really obsessed with that because I was talking to my best friend Sarah Nataff, shout out Sarah Nataff, and she was like, it's crazy that you say that because I like, viscerally remember watching skate videos when I was like, in high school, and a Primus song coming on, being so fucking mad about it and being like, ugh. And I was like, well.

• 33:42Speaker 02

  So, I mean-

• 33:42Yasi Salek?

  Write a letter to Pat Duffy.

• 33:43Speaker 02

  I can just drop it right here.

• 33:47Speaker 02

  So, yeah, the, obviously, like, as a kid, I was like, wow, this guy really likes Primus.

• 33:52Speaker 02

  But it turns out, he does really like Primus, and, but his sister was dating a member of the band.

• 33:57Yasi Salek?

  Oh.

• 33:58Speaker 02

  And so there was like this, and so like, the music was, like, it was like a slam dunk. It's like, oh, you're dating Larry.

• 34:04Yasi Salek?

  So it's not just free, but it's also like, and we're, we're promoting my sister's boyfriend's band, and we don't have to pay for it.

• 34:11Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 34:12Yasi Salek?

  And who cares, who cares if people hate?

• 34:15Speaker 02

  And even at that time, like, they didn't pay for rights at that time, but like, it was like this, uh, total, immediate connection to the band.

• 34:24Yasi Salek?

  Okay, interesting. That makes more sense.

• 34:26Speaker 02

  And Pat's personality, because like, he just, he just loved the band.

• 34:29Yasi Salek?

  He loves the slap bass.

• 34:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. He loves, yeah.

• 34:32Yasi Salek?

  Slap the slap in the bass.

• 34:44Yasi Salek?

  You were saying there's some skaters like Heath and Kareem and Mike Carroll, who are very invested in like what their song choice is. And so they have a lot of say in it.

• 34:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, but there's also situations where the guy who's making the video is just like, like.

• 35:01Yasi Salek?

  I'd also shout out Heath's retirement part in the all white with the fucking Joy Division song.

• 35:05Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 35:06Yasi Salek?

  Stay gold.

• 35:06Speaker 02

  Drama. Love it. I loved it.

• 35:08Yasi Salek?

  With that song, man?

• 35:10Speaker 02

  I, yeah, I kind of like cried a little bit at the premiere. At the end, the mega ramp trick because like he tricked us. He told us he broke his collarbone and he didn't do it. He lied to us.

• 35:22Yasi Salek?

  Oh, he really wanted to up the drama.

• 35:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:24Yasi Salek?

  He was like, he was like really priming the pump for you guys to be like, wow.

• 35:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. He knew what he was doing.

• 35:42Yasi Salek?

  I'm pretty sure I was at that premiere. I have zero memory of it because as you'll remember, because we hung out a lot during this time, I drank very heavily and I don't remember this premiere.

• 35:54Speaker 02

  I remember my brother, Jason, was there and I remember it was at the Ford Theater.

• 35:59Yasi Salek?

  Yes.

• 36:01Speaker 02

  That's just about it.

• 36:02Yasi Salek?

  That's.

• 36:03Speaker 02

  And I almost cried.

• 36:05Yasi Salek?

  And you almost cried.

• 36:06Speaker 02

  At Heath's last trick, yeah.

• 36:08Yasi Salek?

  Beautiful trick. Okay, sorry. So I cut you off. But then, okay, so apart from these like several very involved skateboarders, the rest of the music is sort of chosen by the editor?

• 36:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think like they kind of just like pick stuff and they show it to you. And then they kind of make, maybe they'll make like a little bit of an edit just to kind of like grease it, grease the gears a little bit and be like, hey, like, what do you think of this? But ultimately it doesn't really matter. Like the skater could like, kind of be like, like, I don't know, but like at the end of the day, I think, you know, the guy making the video is just gonna.

• 36:41Yasi Salek?

  Does the guy making the video also edit the video? Is just one guy?

• 36:45Speaker 02

  It's usually just one guy.

• 36:46Yasi Salek?

  Incredible.

• 36:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's pretty.

• 36:49Yasi Salek?

  Films it, directs it, cuts it, picks the song.

• 36:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. And like, and like during the time that I grew up, there's a lot of classic rock. There's a lot of like. Like, they just went out and basically just bought like a bunch of like best of uh, records and they just, you know, because there's like a lot of

• 37:06Yasi Salek?

  And when you say bought, you're talking about like literally just the record. They did not license Led Zeppelin or

• 37:09Speaker 02

  No, they just went to, they just, like, they literally just went to the, to the warehouse and spent like

• 37:14Yasi Salek?

  Shout out Warehouse Music in Torrance, California. Love you, may you rest in peace. I got a lot of great

• 37:18Speaker 02

  And they would just spend like hundreds of dollars and then just go listen to the music and then, you know, like those Plan B videos. Like, there's just all, there's like, all this like Zeppelin and Steve Miller Band. And it's so funny, because like, when you find out that they just kind of like went and bought, um, just these greatest hits records.

• 37:33Yasi Salek?

  Right, like the kind that were like on like TV commercials, like

• 37:37Speaker 02

  And they have a hard job trying to like figure out what's gonna work. Like, what is gonna work with Mike Carroll? What is gonna work with Pat Duffy? Or not, well, Pat Duffy was

• 37:46Yasi Salek?

  Primus all the way.

• 37:46Speaker 02

  Probably was gonna be Primus, but, but like, yeah, like, you know.

• 37:49Yasi Salek?

  Well, he had a great This Mortal Coil part too on a video that I can't remember the name off the top of my head. It's very interesting.

• 37:54Speaker 02

  Very interesting choice.

• 37:55Yasi Salek?

  I hope he chose it. I don't know if he did. You said something really interesting to me, though, when we were texting, which I wanted to bring up, which is you mentioned that there is this like great sense, and I don't know if it was just in you personally, or if you feel it's like a widespread thing amongst skateboarders, but about the idea of the song being a song you can live up to. Like, your, your part lives up to.

• 38:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:20Yasi Salek?

  Can you talk a little bit more about that?

• 38:21Speaker 02

  I don't know if this is something that a lot of skateboarders feel, but this is just something that, like, where I'm from and who I am, I, I feel, because like, there's this, there's this like, so many skaters and people in general, they just have this like impostor syndrome feeling, and like, there are songs that, like, like, very powerful, dramatic, like, a song like, like Creep by Radiohead or some, or like, even songs I've skated to, that are just like these powerful, powerful pieces of music and You're kind of afraid if you use it in your part that your skating won't really match up to it, even though like it kind of doesn't matter at all.

• 39:03Speaker 02

  But I think like during the time that I was in big skate videos, it did matter. But like, but in like, in like 1992, when skateboarding was a little bit more carefree, like, I feel like that sort of thought process, it didn't really matter. No one was trying to make like the most dramatic video part of all time. But like, you know, during a certain period, I feel like, like when I was doing it, I did get that feeling all the time. From like, kind of a more, in a shitty way, like, I would watch a video part that used a song that I considered to be at a certain level. And then the skating would be like at this kind of like lower level and be like, oh, damn, they didn't pull it off. I would have those feelings.

• 39:45Yasi Salek?

  I don't have to name my names.

• 39:46Speaker 02

  No. But.

• 39:48Yasi Salek?

  I can see that. I just did a cursory search to see who has skateboarded to Radiohead and general. And then I was like, well, of course, Tony Hawk can skateboard to the National Anthem.

• 39:59Yasi Salek?

  I haven't seen that part, but I'm just gonna go ahead and it's from.

• 40:02Speaker 02

  What is that from?

• 40:02Yasi Salek?

  ADO, One Step Beyond.

• 40:04Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 40:05Yasi Salek?

  Jason Jones, Radiohead Karma Police, that one, I don't know, I haven't seen it.

• 40:09Speaker 02

  I have no memory of it.

• 40:10Yasi Salek?

  There was a guy I went to middle school with named Jason Jones, who literally gave me my first Thrasher magazine and then disappeared into the night. I wonder if it's the same person.

• 40:17Speaker 02

  Did he have long blonde hair?

• 40:19Yasi Salek?

  He, he did have blonde hair.

• 40:21Speaker 02

  Like blonde blonde?

• 40:22Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, blonde blonde. He was like a white blonde guy.

• 40:23Speaker 02

  Oh, well.

• 40:25Yasi Salek?

  Is he from?

• 40:25Speaker 02

  Sounds like Jason Jones. I don't know where he's from.

• 40:27Yasi Salek?

  Jason Jones, if you're listening and you are at Cali Mayor Middle School in 1993 and you gave a young Persian girl her first Thrasher magazine, get in touch. Truly die. I remember he got kicked out of class and then I never saw him again.

• 40:43Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 40:44Yasi Salek?

  No.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  That happened to kids at my school. They just like disappeared.

• 40:48Yasi Salek?

  Where did they go?

• 40:49Speaker 02

  Like my friend Alex that we skated with, one day he just didn't come to school ever again.

• 40:52Yasi Salek?

  He went to the continuation school.

• 40:54Speaker 02

  Well, the rumor was that his parents, who were like, probably kind of like hardcore Mormon or something, grew up around a lot of Mormons.

• 41:01Yasi Salek?

  Took them, took him out of school.

• 41:02Speaker 02

  Like took him out of school and probably like just sent him somewhere.

• 41:05Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 41:05Speaker 02

  You know, to the farm or whatever.

• 41:07Yasi Salek?

  That's where dogs go to die. You mean more, probably more like a military school or something?

• 41:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:11Yasi Salek?

  Or like a boarding school. I'll just point out a song, choice and skate part that I do feel lived up to it. Jamie Thomas getting to Bob O'Reilly.

• 41:21Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 41:22Yasi Salek?

  In his Euro video.

• 41:23Speaker 02

  I mean.

• 41:24Yasi Salek?

  Like, let's fucking go. Cause that's a fucking, that's a song.

• 41:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:28Yasi Salek?

  Like, you better fucking knock that shit out of the park.

• 41:31Speaker 02

  No, he brought it. He definitely brought it for that. And he's good at that. Like, his.

• 41:35Yasi Salek?

  Do you feel like he picked that song?

• 41:37Speaker 02

  I would say a hundred percent.

• 41:39Yasi Salek?

  It really, it really hits.

• 41:40Speaker 02

  He's like, he's like a very, like, in charge guy.

• 41:44Yasi Salek?

  Kind of guy.

• 41:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, so like, there's no, I mean, someone might have suggested it to him, but I doubt it. He's, he probably was in control. He was probably thinking about that song.

• 41:52Yasi Salek?

  While he was skateboarding. That's so cool. See, that is so cool. Like, that idea to me is very like.

• 41:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, actually, like, Mark Johnson always told me that his dream, one of his dreams was to pick the song first, and then try to create the skating to go with the song. And I don't think that's ever been done.

• 42:11Yasi Salek?

  Do you think you're too past your prime to do it?

• 42:13Speaker 02

  It sounds like a cool idea, but honestly, like, what would it look like? And would it even be noticeable?

• 42:19Yasi Salek?

  And who would care?

• 42:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know what I mean?

• 42:21Yasi Salek?

  Like, how would, how would you convey, communicate that that was happening?

• 42:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's just like a weird, like.

• 42:27Yasi Salek?

  I mean, you know how you could see it? I'm not me, like, but like, if, it maybe wouldn't lend itself to, like, the most ornate tricks, but like, you could, like, land on the beat, you know?

• 42:41Speaker 02

  Which is very cool, but it's already something that you can just do through editing. Yeah, so I don't know.

• 42:49Yasi Salek?

  Okay.

• 42:49Speaker 02

  Interesting idea.

• 42:50Yasi Salek?

  That's right. We're just spitballing here.

• 42:51Speaker 02

  You know, yeah. No one do it.

• 42:54Yasi Salek?

  Keep it, keep it. I mean, these kids, these kids today are not all right. I don't think they're gonna be doing it respectfully. Now I wanna talk about the eras. Because I feel like, for me personally, the more formative music discovery ones were the very early ones. Like, even though like in 91, I was like nine, but it didn't matter because the, the guy you hung out with, who was four years older than you. When you're 11, you, there's only so many fucking skate videos. So you're just watching the same ones from four years ago. So like, it doesn't matter when it came out. So like, like I said, mouse crying, like those ones, like video days, blind video days. Do you, I wanted to ask you, do you think they put Guy Mariano's part to the Jackson 5 song because he's so young?

• 43:39Yasi Salek?

  Cause he's the youngest one in the video. I was really thinking, I was like, oh, is that kind of like a little like stylistic choice? Cause he's the baby?

• 43:44Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Yeah. And I found out, I found out recently that Mark Gonzalez actually chose that song for Guy. Like he was like, Guy should skate to this song. And it's definitely because like it's the child prodigy.

• 43:56Yasi Salek?

  I looked it up and he was, he wasn't that young. He was like 15, but he looks like he's nine.

• 44:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, he looks extremely young. Yeah.

• 44:03Yasi Salek?

  I was like, okay.

• 44:12Yasi Salek?

  I'm almost positive that's the first time I heard Black Flag.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 44:15Yasi Salek?

  Cause of My War is Jordan Richter's part.

• 44:18Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 44:19Yasi Salek?

  Let's fucking go.

• 44:19Speaker 02

  It's one of the best soundtracks.

• 44:21Yasi Salek?

  It's, it's Dinosaur Jr. Doing the cover of Just Like Heaven. I've never heard that before. And then we talked about this on text, but I didn't know until last night. Cause I had never, like, why would I go back and look into this, something from 40 years ago? But Jason Lee, one of my, one of my early faves.

• 44:40Yasi Salek?

  What a beautiful career Jason Lee has had for himself.

• 44:43Speaker 02

  I know. It's really golden.

• 44:45Yasi Salek?

  Yeah. His song, well, he has two songs, but one is obviously Whisker Do, fucking Real World off Metal Circus. Like, let's fucking go. I don't, I don't know if he chose that. I want to believe it, but I don't know. But the other song, and you knew this and I didn't, is credited to a band called Milk, which was Jeff Tremaine's band. But did this band exist in real life?

• 45:08Speaker 02

  So it did exist in real life. It was Jeff Tremaine, Andy Howell, and forgive me, but like two other people that.

• 45:15Yasi Salek?

  Marle Osborne, Mark Lumen.

• 45:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. And yeah, they just never released anything and they were just kind of like, as far as I know, they were just kind of like friends with those guys, Spike, and they were just like, yeah, like, we'll make a song or use this song.

• 45:30Yasi Salek?

  They made like five songs and it came out in 2002 allegedly, but you can't find, I think it might be on YouTube, but it's not on streaming or anything. The album is called Jason's Song and I believe Jason Lee actually sings on that one.

• 45:43Speaker 02

  On what they released?

• 45:44Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, which is not the song, the song that he skates to is called The Night Song. Yeah, also, fucking slaps that song.

• 45:53Speaker 02

  Very cool.

• 45:54Yasi Salek?

  It's a good song. Anyways, so we're talking about that early era. So it's like the Alien Workshop one that had a bunch of Dinosaur Jr. in it.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  Memory Screen?

• 46:03Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 46:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think like, once people saw Video Days, I think.

• 46:09Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 46:10Speaker 02

  And even like, yeah, and even like, you know, like the GNS video footage, like I think once people saw, like, once that whole DIY lo-fi thing started to happen, like, and then, like, Dinosaur Jr. is kind of like a no-brainer choice.

• 46:24Yasi Salek?

  Let's talk about this. I think, and it's kind of impossible to tell, but I'm willing to bet money that the most used artist in skateboard videos is Dinosaur Jr.

• 46:36Speaker 02

  Probably.

• 46:37Yasi Salek?

  I think so. It seems, it comes up a lot.

• 46:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, it comes up like throughout.

• 46:42Yasi Salek?

  On interstitials, on parts.

• 46:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, cause it's even, I mean, it's even in this video called Ohio Skate Out, which is like, yeah, it's like, just, it's just an independent video based on like a contest in Ohio. And there is a Dinosaur Jr. song in it. And I think from that point, it just, until this day, like, there's just people just keep using Dinosaur Jr. and.

• 47:04Yasi Salek?

  Why do we think that Dinosaur Jr. is the most used artist, if it is so, which I think it is, in skateboard videos?

• 47:12Speaker 02

  I'm not really sure. I have like, I have like zero, uh, like, I'm just all for it. You know, I love Dinosaur Jr. But I think like it just perfectly fits with skateboarding beca- and especially during that like pocket, like that like ninety to ninety-three pocket. And it's just like that like sort of lo-fi Midwest, East Coast sort of artistic.

• 47:34Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 47:35Speaker 02

  Like do it yourself.

• 47:36Yasi Salek?

  Immersed messages.

• 47:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, just I think that the sound and the skating, especially in like Alien Workshop videos, like the, the sound, the, the, the sound and the visual aspects of those videos and skateboarding, it's, it is kind of like perfect together. And it has stood the test of time. And I think so that's why, there's no way to really like say exactly why, but because it is still being used and because I never get sick of it, I feel like, oh, this is just the way it's supposed to be.

• 48:04Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 48:05Speaker 02

  And it can go, and you know, that goes for other stuff too, but I don't know, Dinosaur Jr., it, it goes for Sonic Youth too.

• 48:10Yasi Salek?

  I was gonna say, I thought the, the next closest runner up is Sonic Youth, which Sonic Youth makes a lot of sense to me though, because it does feel like Sonic Youth has like California roots, but also New York roots and like Kim Gordon was friends with Mike Kelly. It just feels like there's like a lot of connections kind of back to the skateboarding world. And maybe those exist for Dinosaur Jr. Show, I just don't know.

• 48:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:31Yasi Salek?

  You know?

• 48:32Speaker 02

  I think there's-

• 48:33Yasi Salek?

  In order to get these songs and not fear that like someone's gonna come and sue your ass.

• 48:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think there's just like a, there's just like an innate sort of connection you feel to these artists.

• 48:40Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 48:41Speaker 02

  As skaters, like there's just like this, like subculture need to like, that sounds stupid, but.

• 48:47Yasi Salek?

  No.

• 48:48Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? Like the, the connection is kind of obvious.

• 48:51Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 48:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:53Yasi Salek?

  Have you ever skateboarded to a Dinosaur Jr. song?

• 48:55Speaker 02

  No.

• 48:56Yasi Salek?

  No, but famously you have skateboarded to a Sonic Youth.

• 49:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 49:01Yasi Salek?

  Cover of a Carpenter song.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  Superstar. Yeah.

• 49:05Yasi Salek?

  It's good stuff.

• 49:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:07Yasi Salek?

  I was made very sad in my research because I had not watched the behind the scenes making of Enjoy's Bag of Suck.

• 49:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:18Yasi Salek?

  And You Fall Down So Much.

• 49:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:21Yasi Salek?

  I felt very worried for you. I was like, Jerry falling down really hard so many times, hit your head multiple times.

• 49:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've hit my head a lot.

• 49:30Yasi Salek?

  Feels like it might have lasting implications.

• 49:32Speaker 02

  Probably.

• 49:35Speaker 02

  Probably.

• 49:35Yasi Salek?

  Do you, this is a genuine, serious question. Do you fall more than other skaters? And is that why there's a focus on how much? Maybe not how much, but how hard you fall? Is that like, is that part of your persona as a skateboarder?

• 49:53Speaker 02

  It's how I've been, well, there's two things. It's, it's A, how I've been presented, but it's also an accurate representation. So like, I don't know why, but like, yeah, like I do slam hard. And.

• 50:06Yasi Salek?

  Listen, go big or go home is what they say.

• 50:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I don't know what it, I don't know what my relationship is to.

• 50:16Yasi Salek?

  Self harming.

• 50:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, but, or just like the, the like, there, there's just, it's funny because when I'm, when I'm skating and I'm about to do something that's like scary or hard or whatever, there is like, like, it's just all this fear and anxiety and like hesitation. And then out of nowhere comes this like, yeah, well, just, just jump on it. And that's kind, and I either make it out alive or, you know, it just, it's, it's sort of hit or miss. But yeah, there is just this moment where I'm just like, all right, I'm just going to be stupid right now. And sometimes it pays off and sometimes it is like a total disaster, total disaster.

• 50:53Yasi Salek?

  You go to the hospital.

• 50:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:56Yasi Salek?

  Sometimes you're borderline uninsurable.

• 50:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, I guess, I guess it just paid off enough times to where I was like, well, I'm just going to like, keep gambling.

• 51:04Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 51:05Speaker 02

  It is kind of like a weird gambling mentality.

• 51:07Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 51:08Speaker 02

  Where like the risk reward thing, I just kind of like, well, we'll just see.

• 51:12Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 51:12Speaker 02

  I might, I might make it.

• 51:22Yasi Salek?

  Man, it hits so much harder when you see them fall a bunch of times and then see them land it. And then they did that for you. Yeah. It's a half you falling and then half not falling.

• 51:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, I mean, I've talked about this a lot, but like, it is, but, but like. I mean, that video part is only about fifteen tricks.

• 51:39Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 51:39Speaker 02

  That I land. And then the whole first half is just slamming and like John Miner just, he just took it all and created this like drama.

• 51:50Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, it's so cool. It builds up because then you're like, then you're really rude. You're like,

• 51:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:54Yasi Salek?

  You got this, Jerry. You can do it.

• 51:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's so funny. It's so manipulative. You get this, you become like emotionally invested.

• 52:00Yasi Salek?

  But that's how it is. That's, that's the reality of, of what you're doing, actually, though. You are falling a bunch of times before you land usually, right?

• 52:07Speaker 02

  I guess like people have told me, yeah, it's like humanizing or whatever.

• 52:11Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 52:11Speaker 02

  But I mean, I can't watch it. It's kind of just like embarrassing.

• 52:14Yasi Salek?

  To cringe. It's like, I can't.

• 52:15Speaker 02

  It is a little bit. It is a little bit. That in particular.

• 52:19Yasi Salek?

  Oh, yourself falling.

• 52:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, because there's like screaming.

• 52:22Yasi Salek?

  You really, you're really vocal.

• 52:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:25Yasi Salek?

  Which I would be too. It looks painful and frustrating. It's a, it's a combo of frustration and pain.

• 52:30Speaker 02

  One time I was at a bar and someone was, who didn't skate was like, I feel like I saw you, I saw your blooper reel on YouTube. Called it a blooper reel. I was like, that's so funny.

• 52:44Yasi Salek?

  This actually leads me to another question, which I can't believe I hadn't thought about, even though we already talked about how skaters should skate to a song that they're gonna feature. But do you, do you guys, are you guys skating to music in general? Or is it just like dead silent and people?

• 52:58Speaker 02

  Oh, like when we just actually skate?

• 52:59Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 53:00Speaker 02

  It's, I mean, generally it's just dead silent. It's just.

• 53:03Yasi Salek?

  It's really weird.

• 53:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:03Yasi Salek?

  You wouldn't, you wouldn't feel more like pumped up if you had some like Pantera?

• 53:06Speaker 02

  I mean, maybe. I mean, like Muska used to bring his like, you know, his, his boombox around it. But honestly, like, the people that I've skated with, it, people barely use music while they're skating.

• 53:19Yasi Salek?

  Adversely affect the edit too, because then you'd have to try to like cut around, because you're, you need to hear the, the diegetic sounds of the skateboard. And then you're putting a song if there's already a song play, you know what I mean?

• 53:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, but even when people aren't filming, like it's just music's just rarely a thing. I mean, sometimes, you know.

• 53:38Yasi Salek?

  Raw dogging here.

• 53:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, we are just sort of doing that, but I mean, like, sometimes someone will put a little speaker down or whatever, but like, it's just not very normal. Yeah, we don't really usually skate to music in real life.

• 53:50Yasi Salek?

  Given all the, well, anyways, back to our.

• 53:52Speaker 02

  But sometimes actually like, you know, what's actually really annoying is kids at skate parks who have like AirPods in.

• 53:57Yasi Salek?

  Well, that seems crazy because that's like driving with AirPods in. You're like.

• 54:00Speaker 02

  No, yeah.

• 54:01Yasi Salek?

  Don't you need to have some spatial awareness?

• 54:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like actually.

• 54:03Yasi Salek?

  Someone's gonna slam into you.

• 54:04Speaker 02

  It's also, yeah, it's like dangerous.

• 54:05Yasi Salek?

  It's dangerous. That's why you're like, kids.

• 54:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's like, hey, like, you're skating dangerously.

• 54:12Yasi Salek?

  That's who you are now.

• 54:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:13Yasi Salek?

  You're a cop now. Basically, my, the point I was trying to make, which I think you can speak more to is like this first era, which, where would you say it ends? Because like in my little list of ones that were important to me, oh, my God, Foundation, Tentacles of Destruction. Featuring my.

• 54:29Speaker 02

  Big one.

• 54:30Yasi Salek?

  Heartthrob, my pictures on my wall, Heath Kurtchard and Steve Barra. Steve Barra's getting to melt with you by Modern English.

• 54:37Speaker 02

  Great choice.

• 54:38Yasi Salek?

  Phenoms. There's a lot. Toy Machine, Welcome to Hell. Love that one. Mouse, like I told you, cried. Do you want to talk about Twenty Shot Sequence?

• 54:45Speaker 02

  Sure, yeah.

• 54:46Yasi Salek?

  Because I've been talking a lot about more, I guess, like rock focused things. But there was a ton of hip hop in skate videos, too.

• 54:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, so like Twenty Shot Sequence was a World Industries video and World Industries was down in Torrance. And, and I think it was in Torrance at that time, but it was just basically like all LA, mostly LA skaters.

• 55:08Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 55:08Speaker 02

  And also kind of mostly non-white. So like Hispanic and black skaters. And so they brought kind of like, and this is also sort of the time.

• 55:17Yasi Salek?

  That was 94.

• 55:18Speaker 02

  94 and like, they were using stuff like Redman, Method Man.

• 55:23Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 55:23Speaker 02

  And like, like basically like, and.

• 55:25Yasi Salek?

  Too short.

• 55:26Speaker 02

  Too short and then like. So that was very cool because they chose the music really well and it went with the skating really well. It really, really complimented their, their whole identity. And also Wu-Tang was like a pretty new uh group at the time, like Wu-Tang was like 92. And so like combining these skaters, this company with this music. It was super impactful for me because like I, I mean, I didn't, I, I wasn't like really into hip hop, but like it's when I saw these videos, I understood like the um, like the sort of like visceral nature of like early 90s hip hop, which like, you know, that type of music is not really being made anymore.

• 56:17Yasi Salek?

  I like how it's like specifically so much Redman.

• 56:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's such good songs.

• 56:23Yasi Salek?

  No.

• 56:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, they, they really chose well and I, I found out that Kareem actually had a lot to do with a lot of the music that was in those world videos.

• 56:31Yasi Salek?

  In all of them.

• 56:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:32Yasi Salek?

  And this one also.

• 56:33Speaker 02

  Like New World Order, Twenty Shot and Trilogy, I feel like Kareem was sort of, I mean, he's, I think he was kind of like a, a fatherly figure to a lot of these guys.

• 56:42Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 56:42Speaker 02

  He would kind of like, you know, he would choose his own music and he would also help the other skaters, but hey, I think you should skate to this.

• 56:49Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, that, that is very interesting. And then I was super interested in the York Mixtape, which again, I didn't really watch in real time because not, you know, we were, we were west coast and we didn't, I don't remember ever seeing it. I'm sure it was, you know, making its way around here, but I didn't. And I didn't sit down and smoke weed in some guy's fucking living room and watch it. So this was made by Eli Gensler and RBU, Molly, Filmer's and editors. What I thought was so interesting, you've watched this one, obviously.

• 57:18Speaker 02

  Only once.

• 57:19Yasi Salek?

  Okay. What's so interesting about this one with the music is that it is all rappers freestyles taken from Stretch and Bobbito's radio show, because that was like their friends.

• 57:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:32Yasi Salek?

  So it's such an interesting, and there's all these sort of like, you know, it's like Fat Joe and Busta Rhymes and like, that to me was so cool, because I'm like, I can't imagine you're like watching this and then you're hearing these like incredible freestyles by these rappers that are sort of like really up and coming, like what an interesting like form of exposing people to music.

• 57:55Speaker 02

  It's a one of a kind.

• 57:56Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, exactly, because that's not something, like, the other ones are very just straightforward, like, we put this song on top of this.

• 58:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, nothing like that has ever been done again.

• 58:06Yasi Salek?

  I can see why, because apparently, matching up the audio from the radio show recordings, which was like analog, and then syncing it to like the digital and analog video was like incredibly difficult, and they kept like losing the sync and they had to like speed up and slow down the tapes by hand as they went, so, and that's actually why the second half of it is just one song.

• 58:34Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 58:35Yasi Salek?

  Because they were sick of editing, they were like, we can't do this anymore.

• 58:37Speaker 02

  They were gonna kill themselves.

• 58:38Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, and then RB had gotten a bunch more footage, they just shoved all the extra footage into that second half with the one song, and that was kind of interesting.

• 58:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm not too familiar with, like, the mixed tape video, like, I think was incredible, but it didn't, like, it just didn't resonate with me.

• 58:56Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 58:56Speaker 02

  So I did, I only watched it once.

• 58:57Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 58:58Speaker 02

  But, like-

• 58:59Yasi Salek?

  It feels really east coast.

• 59:00Speaker 02

  So, it's like the most east coast.

• 59:03Yasi Salek?

  Like, it's this Stretch, Bobbito, Zoo York, it's like, yeah.

• 59:06Speaker 02

  But what's funny about, like, east coast wise, is like, Eastern Exposure 3, which is like one of the most important east coast videos.

• 59:13Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 59:14Speaker 02

  They were still using like, like Dinosaur Jr., Sebado.

• 59:17Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 59:18Speaker 02

  You know, like, a lot of.

• 59:19Yasi Salek?

  I know exactly the video you're talking about.

• 59:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:21Yasi Salek?

  Great Sebado song.

• 59:22Speaker 02

  It's a great Sebado.

• 59:23Yasi Salek?

  Starts with a Dinosaur Jr.

• 59:23Speaker 02

  I think it's rebound, maybe?

• 59:24Yasi Salek?

  And then goes into a Sebado song. Yeah, yeah. I want you to correct me because you know better because I'm just looking at it like from looking through the lists and like, I remember kind of just watching up until maybe Baker 2D. I remember watching Baker 2D in college. And then, uh, like, you know, then I kind of maybe came back and then it was like, it felt like a different era. But is, is that, where would you put the delineation? Because like Baker 2D still feels very much like the like logical expression. It's almost like kind of like a beautiful pinnacle because it has so many good songs in it. And it's so wild and fun to watch, but it still feels of this like first chunk.

• 1:00:02Speaker 02

  Yes, I would agree.

• 1:00:03Yasi Salek?

  Okay.

• 1:00:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's still, it's, it had like top tier skaters, but it was just made in such a like, sort of DIY and, uh, sort of thoughtfully chosen music. It was just, yeah.

• 1:00:17Yasi Salek?

  How old was this Knox child at this point?

• 1:00:21Speaker 02

  I don't know. He's young.

• 1:00:22Yasi Salek?

  He looks like he's literally eight years old.

• 1:00:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's probably like 13.

• 1:00:27Yasi Salek?

  It's, and he has the best songs, I have to say, if I'm allowed to say. And in this one, like Nation of Ulysses, Bad Brains, like.

• 1:00:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, the Bad Brains song.

• 1:00:36Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, Bad Brains, it's Big Takeover. And then Jim Greco has good songs too, obviously. He has another Locust song. And Gloria, very good. Anyways, so then, would you say?

• 1:00:46Speaker 02

  The Gloria song is, is one of my favorites. It's one of my favorite combinations. Is, is that Gloria song with that era of Jim?

• 1:00:54Yasi Salek?

  It's just like an elegant, he's just an elegant skater. And then the song is so like elegant. I mean, this is me not understanding skateboarding like you do, but it's just the one I watch, that's what the song makes me feel is happening.

• 1:01:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I thought, I feel like that was a perfect match. He's actually chosen a lot of good songs for himself.

• 1:01:11Yasi Salek?

  I mean, he wears a lot of jackets, you know, he likes.

• 1:01:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, but that's, but that's only, yeah, but that's only like one, uh, era. He has like six different eras.

• 1:01:29Yasi Salek?

  I feel like the the tail end of this, which is like we're get 2099, skateboarding has reached a different level in culture. Maybe not like the crazy level that it's gonna reach, but it starts to kind of influence. Are we, we're not quite at skinny, we're about to be at skinny jeans.

• 1:01:48Speaker 02

  We're almost there. We're probably like three years away or two years away, maybe.

• 1:01:52Yasi Salek?

  But then, like, I remember skateboarders kind of switching to skinnier jeans and then seeing it really like go into the culture, you know?

• 1:01:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think just like people had their eye on it for years. Um, and then just through the cycle of like, I'm just saying like mood board wise.

• 1:02:08Yasi Salek?

  Right, right, totally.

• 1:02:09Speaker 02

  Like, whatever is happening in skateboarding has always been on mood boards.

• 1:02:13Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 1:02:13Speaker 02

  From.

• 1:02:14Yasi Salek?

  Well, but that's how we got streetwear.

• 1:02:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, so.

• 1:02:16Yasi Salek?

  One of the ways we got streetwear.

• 1:02:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, but even like in the APC up into the higher levels of fashion, I feel like there's always at least, you know, a couple photos of like, I don't know, whatever, like the Baker guys were doing or whatever, you know, was going on in skating.

• 1:02:32Yasi Salek?

  Man, this is why I'm like sick in my heart and soul, but like watching the the earlier ones, like, because that was my more my era, like pre, pre like 96, 98, like, I still think this is peak male dressing. I still think men should all dress like this.

• 1:02:49Speaker 02

  That's hilarious.

• 1:02:49Yasi Salek?

  They look cool as hell. They'll never not look cool to me. I mean, we haven't gotten quite into giant pants. Giant pants is like late 90s.

• 1:02:57Speaker 02

  Like blind jean goofy boy type pants?

• 1:03:00Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, that's like 92.

• 1:03:03Yasi Salek?

  And then it comes back much later.

• 1:03:07Speaker 02

  Not quite in the same way.

• 1:03:09Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 1:03:09Speaker 02

  Like that, like, like that Janko.

• 1:03:12Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:12Speaker 02

  Style of pant like has never fully come back in like a very accepted cool way. But you know, it's, it gets, it comes back here and there.

• 1:03:20Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:21Speaker 02

  In sort of like peripheral cultures to skating, but like, in terms of like straight up, like Janko jeans, blind jeans things, I feel like it just lives in this like 92, 3 zone where your, where your heart also lives.

• 1:03:36Yasi Salek?

  My heart lives. Where would you say that first era sort of?

• 1:03:42Yasi Salek?

  Ends in the next era begins in just like, obviously in your estimation of the way we're talking about the music at least.

• 1:03:49Speaker 02

  I mean, it's hard to say because like, there are really, really no hard lines in terms of like, where music totally changes. There are trends. There are trends that come in and out. Like, I would say that like, uh, early 2000s in these trans world videos when like, Ty Evans was making trans world videos, like he introduced, him and John Holland introduced a lot of electronic music and like, kind of like house techno style music. Because of the, because of the, I feel like because of the way that Ty wanted to edit, he wanted to edit the skating to these songs.

• 1:04:22Yasi Salek?

  Like he wanted quicker, like more energetic editing?

• 1:04:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, like quicker energetic editing and like, kind of like a lot of like, like back and forth type stuff that he did. Like, he really did do sort of like DJ-esque, like kind of editing.

• 1:04:38Yasi Salek?

  Interesting.

• 1:04:39Speaker 02

  And he wasn't the only one, but I feel like he was the most prominent and the most influential. And I feel like he kind of like, he did change the way skate videos were made for a while.

• 1:04:48Yasi Salek?

  What are some examples that come off the top of your head?

• 1:04:53Speaker 02

  Like Modus operandi or probably like The Reason. And then, and then he ended up making like, Yeah, Right and like girl videos. And like, I think like the, the whole like spectacular skateboard video. He was a big part of, um, like, so the genesis of, of that, that type of skateboard video. Like those girl videos, those production values, um, the way that like the skaters were pushed to a certain, like the, like he pushed them like really, really hard. And he basically pushed everything and changed the way skateboarding videos were made for a second.

• 1:05:39Yasi Salek?

  Yarrett is such a good example of where you can see like musically, like it's so all over the place, but there's also like more contemporary music.

• 1:05:52Speaker 02

  Like block party?

• 1:05:53Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, and like Interpol and a Lady Tron song.

• 1:05:58Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:05:59Yasi Salek?

  Does that sound right?

• 1:05:59Speaker 02

  That sounds right.

• 1:06:00Yasi Salek?

  A litigre, litigre. But then also there's like, you know, there's still Michael Jackson, there's still Guns N' Roses, you know, it's like David Bowie, Joy Division, it's like all Happy Mondays.

• 1:06:12Speaker 02

  Pixies.

• 1:06:12Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, so it's like very interesting, it's like, it's really establishing like, obviously we like live in the zone of indie, like cool indie music, like Dinah T. J. Sonic Youth, back to like Happy Mondays, Joy Division, like all that shit, and then also classic rock is there, like you pointed out, and now, and then hip hop is in this one a lot, there's Ghostface, there's So California, Charlie Tuna and Fat Lip.

• 1:06:37Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:06:37Yasi Salek?

  So fucking California. And then Death in Vegas, like you're saying, like more like electronic music. This one is really interesting, there's a lot of songs on here. Morrissey song, Smashing Pumpkins song. Are there more budgets now? Like now that we're in 2003, 4, is skateboarding more profitable and thus there's more money to put into things like videos?

• 1:07:01Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 1:07:01Yasi Salek?

  Okay.

• 1:07:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, like I would say 100% the amount of budget that became available during this time affected how skateboard videos were made and it affected what music was.

• 1:07:12Yasi Salek?

  Are they clearing it at this time?

• 1:07:14Speaker 02

  At this time, I feel like this is the beginning of the time where like, where skateboard videos were being produced, like there were 75,000, 100,000 copies of these videos being made. So yes, they did have to go through the process of licensing music, whether it would be like a one time in perpetuity type deal, or if it's like a per unit type thing, like I don't know what all the rules are with licensing, but yes, this is the time when you had to, if you were a company that was a certain size and selling a certain amount of videos, and this is also before YouTube or anything like that, like you did have to, you know,

• 1:07:58Speaker 02

  attain the rights. And that became a real hassle. That became a real hassle and it also, what it takes to like get the rights is pretty insane because it's not just the artist, like you could like know the artist, you could like know Lars Ulrich or whatever, but that doesn't mean you can attain the rights because like who owns the publishing rights is, it can be very complicated.

• 1:08:23Yasi Salek?

  What I'm hearing is that you don't think musicians should be paid for their work. Is that, is that what you're saying?

• 1:08:30Speaker 02

  No, that's not what I'm saying.

• 1:08:32Yasi Salek?

  If, it feels like what you're saying is it should just, they should just give it to you.

• 1:08:37Speaker 02

  No, I'm just, no, please don't.

• 1:08:40Yasi Salek?

  Don't say that, don't get me cancelled. No, no, I get what you're saying. Yeah, of course, it's like Byzantine level of trying to undo, who's the, like who owns the, you know, publishing, the song publishing? Who owns this? Who played on, like, what label owns it? Like, it's a whole situation.

• 1:08:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:58Yasi Salek?

  Um, but I mean, it makes sense to me at this point. It's like jackasses on MTV, right? And pretty thriving. Like, so you have Spike Jonze directing a video for Girl or being involved in, like, of course they're gonna be like, put the money in my hand.

• 1:09:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:15Yasi Salek?

  You can't just go make this, you know?

• 1:09:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But again, I think like sometimes they understand the reach that a skateboard video will have.

• 1:09:26Yasi Salek?

  Cause there's a promotional element. Also, just like a cool, like it's like a cool thing to be aligned with element.

• 1:09:32Speaker 02

  I totally understand the perspective of like, no, we're not going to.

• 1:09:35Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:36Speaker 02

  Unless they pay.

• 1:09:37Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 1:09:38Speaker 02

  Type thing.

• 1:09:39Yasi Salek?

  But this is pre like even the idea that this is gonna be like daily available on the internet for you to click as much as you want. This was still just like, we're selling VHS tapes.

• 1:09:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, and we're buying CDs.

• 1:09:51Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, and tapes. I think like, I know that I'm like very biased in this situation, but like if your song hits and is in a really good video part, like, I mean, I don't know, obviously, but like the, like, just think about, like how many Dinosaur Jr. albums that I've bought because I just heard it that one time in the beginning? I mean. Times like thousands.

• 1:10:19Yasi Salek?

  Can I just say, this is insane. I just wanna do Dinosaur Jr. role. Okay, Dinosaur Jr. freak scene. Mike Velely, Speed Freaks, 1989. Dinosaur Jr., They Always Come. David Nielsen, Speed Freaks, 1989. Dinosaur Jr., Just Like Heaven, we said Rudy Johnson, uh, blind. Jay Mascis, A Little Ethnic Song, Memory Screen. Dinosaur Jr., The Lung. Rob Diedrick, Memory Screen. Dinosaur Jr., Feel A Whole Lot Better. Steve Klar, Memory Screen. Dinosaur Jr., Budge. Dwayne Petre. Petre?

• 1:10:48Speaker 02

  Petrie.

• 1:10:48Yasi Salek?

  Memory Screen. Start Choppin'. Rockman Chung, Powell Play, 93. Puke and Cry. Hideo Sakuragi. El Numero Trace, 1993. We're only in the 90s here. On The Brink. Donnie Barley. Eastern Exposure 3. Yeah, We Know. Bryan Anderson. Jumping Off A Building. Toy Machine, 1998. This is just the 90s.

• 1:11:11Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:11:11Yasi Salek?

  There's way more. This is crazy.

• 1:11:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's so, it's just, I don't know.

• 1:11:16Yasi Salek?

  It's just, what goes better? Wine and cheese? Dinosaur Jr. and skate videos?

• 1:11:26Yasi Salek?

  What's the next? Cause I do feel like if you watch a 2016 skate video, we're real far from 1996 skate video.

• 1:11:38Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:11:39Yasi Salek?

  What do you think changed about the tone and like vibe you're going for with music in a skate video? Cause I assume that changes over time with like all of culture changing. I mean, I'm thinking of like the animal collectivization of skate videos.

• 1:11:55Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:11:56Yasi Salek?

  That happens sort of like, I guess that's like what, mid 2000s?

• 1:12:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:00Yasi Salek?

  The pitchfork.com-ification of music in music, you know, in skate videos.

• 1:12:07Speaker 02

  I don't know. I mean, I don't really know what to say about it other than that there were just like, during that time, there were just very, very powerful like skateboard filmmakers who were really pushing like their narrative and their choices.

• 1:12:20Yasi Salek?

  They were like auteurs.

• 1:12:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, kind of. They did, I think like during this time, there are like, the companies have budgets and they're able to hire these sort of like. Relatively insane skateboard filmmakers who have a lot of experience coming up to this point. Now they're the guys and they are the people that are just like sort of they're like sort of like the directors and they want to and they're hired for their vision, their musical taste, their everything. And it sort of just drove how skateboard videos were made for a really long time. And their musical choices really did like dictate the landscape for a while. And there's like major exceptions, like we talked about earlier,

• 1:13:04Speaker 02

  like there's all kinds of things going on at the same time, you know, like there isn't just one type of skateboard video that's happening. Like there are shot videos, there's, you know, there's all types of things that are going on. But I feel like at the top in terms of like the the sort of like mainstream culture of skateboarding, like there were these guys making like the DC video and like minefield photosynthesis and, you know, state gold and this is skateboarding and like all these sort of like, you know, cream of the crop sort of videos or whatever.

• 1:13:36Yasi Salek?

  And I guess my follow up question would be like, how important do you think music is in skate videos now as opposed to maybe how important it was before? Do you think equally important or something has changed?

• 1:13:53Speaker 02

  It's hard because the full length skateboard video is sort of dead. It still exists here and there.

• 1:14:01Yasi Salek?

  It's short form content, like everything else. Like everyone has ADD and you just like see a part. Where do they go? Instagram?

• 1:14:06Speaker 02

  YouTube.

• 1:14:07Yasi Salek?

  YouTube shorts.

• 1:14:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. I am older too, so that has something to do with it.

• 1:14:12Yasi Salek?

  We can't separate ourselves from old man shaking fists at clouds. It's true.

• 1:14:16Speaker 02

  But because of the context of like a full length video, like back in the day and how long you waited for it and how few videos there were and how there was just less of everything.

• 1:14:31Yasi Salek?

  Yeah. And also less ability to discover music in, you know, for our conversation.

• 1:14:37Speaker 02

  Because because there were so fewer resources, everything was more special. So it's just like, it's really hard to compare content, whatever you want to call it, from back then versus today. Because today, it just feels like there's so much stuff that comes out all the time in short form con like in short form that. Like, everything feels so unimportant. It's just every once in a while, something comes out. And, you know, that time you were just talking about, like,

• 1:15:06Yasi Salek?

  Which one, the mid 2016 or whatever?

• 1:15:08Speaker 02

  That 16, 17 era?

• 1:15:10Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:10Speaker 02

  I think like, something that's worth mentioning is, um, when Cherry comes out.

• 1:15:15Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 1:15:15Speaker 02

  So when Cherry comes out, that is sort of a, uh,

• 1:15:18Yasi Salek?

  Bill Strobeck.

• 1:15:19Speaker 02

  Bill Strobeck. That, that, that kind of is a sort of sea change where,

• 1:15:23Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 1:15:23Speaker 02

  Like, it is a breath of fresh air. Everybody sees the video and is just like, whoa, like, this is a feeling that we haven't seen in a long time.

• 1:15:31Yasi Salek?

  Because it was like, a full length that was like, like, meant to be experienced that way. It was kind of like, oh, like, we're so back?

• 1:15:39Speaker 02

  First of all, it's, it's very low production value. It's a very like, on the ground skateboard video. There's no bells and whistles. It's just Bill in the streets with these kids. And you can also tell that his relationship with all these kids, and Dylan and Alex and everybody,

• 1:15:54Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 1:15:54Speaker 02

  They are very tight. And that is something that cannot-

• 1:15:56Yasi Salek?

  Dylan Reader, Alex Olson.

• 1:15:57Speaker 02

  And that cannot be faked.

• 1:15:59Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:59Speaker 02

  And you really feel it. And then on top of that, um, on top of that is the soundtrack. You know, like, the soundtrack is very, Bill did a really good job.

• 1:16:07Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, it was great.

• 1:16:08Speaker 02

  And he like, really put together, like, things that wouldn't necessarily make sense at first, but he really did make it make sense. Like Dylan skating in excess, like the Jane's Addiction song in the beginning.

• 1:16:18Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:19Speaker 02

  All those things are, are very, at first you're like, huh? And then he mixes it in with like, with hip hop and, you know, it's just like Raekwon or whatever. And you're just like, like, Dill and Av's getting Raekwon is like, such a nice compliment to everything else that's going on.

• 1:16:35Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:35Speaker 02

  Because there is like a juxtaposition between like, their personalities in skating with the music and some, and that cannot always be pulled off.

• 1:16:42Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 1:16:43Speaker 02

  But he really did it. So yeah, that's sort of like a video that I wanted to shout out as like, you know, things were sort of, sort of going in this like, direction where I feel like, people were like, ah.

• 1:16:53Yasi Salek?

  It was getting kind of, who cares?

• 1:16:54Speaker 02

  It's getting a little like, I hope something new comes along. And something did. And, and luckily like, you know, with, uh, with Supreme, you can-

• 1:17:04Yasi Salek?

  Do they have money?

• 1:17:06Speaker 02

  I think they have a little stash. Yeah, I think they have like, I don't know, they have something going on.

• 1:17:10Yasi Salek?

  Good budgets.

• 1:17:11Speaker 02

  But yeah, but they could like, they could basically, you know, they can get whatever. So.

• 1:17:16Yasi Salek?

  And cool for their whatever to be something really authentic, like you're saying, like something not like super bells and whistles in terms of the filmmaking, but then having all this incredible music that they obviously were able to pay for to like soundtrack it.

• 1:17:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I think it was, yeah, it was just a great move to, to make that video.

• 1:17:44Yasi Salek?

  I'm interested. I mean, I, I wouldn't have a chance to interview any 12 year olds. If you're 12 and you're listening, what if I had just like gone to the skate park, like lurking around, like asking to speak to 12 year old boys?

• 1:17:59Yasi Salek?

  You should telephone police. I think is what would have happened.

• 1:18:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, it might have looked a little weird.

• 1:18:05Yasi Salek?

  But I did, I did speak to a friend who is turning, he's 27, turning 28 this year. So obviously kind of a full generation minimum past ours. And I was curious. I was like, did you discover music through skate videos? And he was like, yeah. And I was like, oh, that's cool. It was like still happening. And he like pointed specifically actually to Dead Meadow.

• 1:18:26Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:18:26Yasi Salek?

  Which was used in a lot of skate videos, but I think maybe most famously in Stay Gold, Colin Provost's part, which I love Dead Meadow. But I, it makes sense. Like I knew about Dead Meadow because by that time I was like in the world of music and knowing things. But like if you're 2010, I mean, he's like 10 years old, you know, like that's so cool. Like you're like, why would you ever hear Dead Meadow? You know? So I was like, oh, I, I hope that, again, I don't know, because I'm so far removed from it now, but like me weeping, watching old skate videos. I just like, hope that that is still a thing. I like, because it was, again, for me, that was the most important part in the end. Like I loved watching skate videos. I liked skateboarding, but the music is what meant so much to me.

• 1:19:06Yasi Salek?

  And then I wouldn't have found some of this stuff without it. And I really just hope it's still happening.

• 1:19:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it definitely still happens. Because like my, the very first time it hit me that like. The music was just doing something to me.

• 1:19:23Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:23Speaker 02

  Was when I saw Jeremy Klein's part in Ravers where he skates to Cocteau Twins.

• 1:19:28Yasi Salek?

  Yes.

• 1:19:28Speaker 02

  And when I, when that.

• 1:19:30Yasi Salek?

  Jeremy Klein kind of a goat right now of like what songs he's skated to. If I had time, I would have sat and made some rankings.

• 1:19:36Speaker 02

  No, absolutely. Like when that, when that song comes on, I had never heard the band before.

• 1:19:42Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:42Speaker 02

  And mixed with his skating and the way it's edited with all the like weird anime B-sides and like the goofy stuff. Like I, I was like, this is.

• 1:19:52Yasi Salek?

  You're mine.

• 1:19:52Speaker 02

  I don't even know what's going on, but you just feel it. You're just like, whoa, like this, I love this. Like I love skateboard videos. That's the moment where I was like, I love skateboard videos and I want to see as many as possible. Like another example of that would be like in Tentacles of Destruction, when it's like, uh, when Steve Olson's part with Quicksand, with David Bowie Quicksand, where it's all slow mo and he's just this like weird stoner nerd.

• 1:20:18Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:18Speaker 02

  Who's just destroying everything. And you're like, what? Like I, like, it was so funny because I was like, what are skaters? Like, I don't understand who this group of people is.

• 1:20:29Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 1:20:29Speaker 02

  They're so, like, there's so many different kinds of them.

• 1:20:33Yasi Salek?

  There's many ways to be a skateboarder.

• 1:20:34Speaker 02

  Because you watch, yeah, you watch that stuff and then you watch like, you know, and then you watch like world videos with Kareem and all these, all these guys in like East LA and then you watch like, you know, then in New York and Philadelphia and then there's so many. And then it's not even counting like the world, you know, like the rest of the world. When you start like visiting like.

• 1:20:51Yasi Salek?

  When you, when you leave America.

• 1:20:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, when you leave America, there's this whole, there's like whole other genres of people.

• 1:20:57Yasi Salek?

  All these French dudes skating to trip hop.

• 1:20:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then there's like even like a reggae phase in skateboarding, like the iPath guys, like.

• 1:21:03Yasi Salek?

  Interesting.

• 1:21:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. And like, oh, I also wanted to shout out John Cartier for skating to Sizzla in this like trans world video. And it fits so well.

• 1:21:12Yasi Salek?

  It's really cool.

• 1:21:13Speaker 02

  It's very good.

• 1:21:24Yasi Salek?

  I'm gonna tell you, Tentacles are discretion up there in my top five, maybe for music choices. Melvins?

• 1:21:31Speaker 02

  I would say Tentacles.

• 1:21:33Yasi Salek?

  Failure?

• 1:21:34Speaker 02

  Like, well, yeah, the Failure song is so good. I love that song so much.

• 1:21:40Speaker 02

  Great soundtrack. Welcome to Hell might be the best, though.

• 1:21:43Yasi Salek?

  It's really good.

• 1:21:44Speaker 02

  Welcome to Hell might be the best soundtrack.

• 1:21:46Yasi Salek?

  Well, Alyssa Steamer skating to the Sundays, bitch.

• 1:21:51Speaker 02

  Also, being introduced to the world with that Sunday song.

• 1:21:54Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:55Speaker 02

  Like, really, really, because no one had ever heard of her. Like, this video was the first time anyone had ever seen anything of her.

• 1:22:01Yasi Salek?

  I was obsessed with her. Obviously, my little, young, female feminist, and I was just like, is this a girl pro skater?

• 1:22:08Speaker 02

  I had such a crush on her. I wrote her a fan letter.

• 1:22:10Yasi Salek?

  No, you didn't.

• 1:22:11Speaker 02

  I mailed it to Toy Machine, and I think, like, with, and I had also been taking photo classes at school, and I, like, printed a photo of my mom.

• 1:22:21Yasi Salek?

  You mailed her a photo of your mother of su-su that you took?

• 1:22:26Speaker 02

  Cooking dinner, and I took a photo of my mom, and, yeah, I was just like, oh, I'll just throw this in there.

• 1:22:29Yasi Salek?

  Did you ever ask her if she received it? Because obviously, you've been in touch with her since.

• 1:22:33Speaker 02

  I did ask her, and she's like, oh, yeah, I think I saw that, like, and then I asked.

• 1:22:37Yasi Salek?

  Threw it directly in the trash.

• 1:22:39Speaker 02

  No, I think Ed has it.

• 1:22:41Yasi Salek?

  Oh, my god, Ed is waiting to blackmail you. It's gonna show up in an art show.

• 1:22:46Speaker 02

  I'm still curious what it says.

• 1:22:47Yasi Salek?

  That's really sweet. You know what else was really good? Sorry, this is just a fun thing. I, this is like what, I mean, it's the end of the episode, so we can devolve into doing this. The Jaron Wilson part in Mouse, where he skates to Magic Mountain, which is such an iconic song that is for sampling. So if you hear it, you'll recognize it because it was, like, sampled by Portishead and Wandering Star, and it was sampled in a couple of De La Soul songs, but it's such a cool song to skate to. I had forgotten about that because I didn't know what that song was when I watched Mouse in 96, and now I'm like, oh, okay.

• 1:23:25Yasi Salek?

  And actually, very interesting because the Portishead album had come out in 94, and all these samples had already been done, so like, I'm sure, like, that's how this song was kind of introduced into the world was like, anyways, I just, that, that one really struck me. This was a really fun episode of research.

• 1:23:41Speaker 02

  I know, I did a lot of research too.

• 1:23:43Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:43Speaker 02

  It was really nice to just like go back and kind of like.

• 1:23:46Yasi Salek?

  Cause is it not fun to watch thirty skate videos? For me, it was super fun.

• 1:23:50Speaker 02

  It was fun. It was also fun to just like talk, like I, I called some friends too and just asked.

• 1:23:55Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, what did Spike Jonze say?

• 1:23:57Speaker 02

  He said that, well, he told me, like I said earlier, that Mark picked his own song, the Coltrane song, and he picked Guy's song, the Jackson 5 song.

• 1:24:04Yasi Salek?

  What that ending of that, I mean, that's the other thing. I'm like, man, we used to have fun around here.

• 1:24:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:09Yasi Salek?

  Like the fucking drinking in the car when Guy Mariano is nine years old or whatever, and then they drive the car off the cliff. Or even the mouse, the one I cried, like, I'm sorry, it always got me, a man in a mouse costume skateboarding.

• 1:24:33Yasi Salek?

  Still hits.

• 1:24:34Speaker 02

  Spike told me that, like, they made the video in six months and it was just the most casual thing ever. And, you know, he, him and Mark made the video and they chose all the music.

• 1:24:43Yasi Salek?

  Do you think it was casual because there was no precedent? So it was like, like, you're really kind of, like, what are you compete, like, you know, now you're making, you're making a company video against the like annals of time and you're like, or even, or even like five years later, but like.

• 1:25:00Speaker 02

  I think, I think the no stakes aspect is very important in that time. And sort of the birth of the modern skate video is sort of, is as a, is a direct result of these like very, very talented or like artistic people that were just kind of like, like, yeah, let's, let's make this. Let's just, let's just with no, like, not thinking about that they're making a skateboard video.

• 1:25:24Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 1:25:24Speaker 02

  And not thinking about like, oh, we're about to make some fucking timeless choices here. They just didn't, they're just like, well, this works, let's just do it. Like making, the, the sense that I got from Spike was just that, like, making video days was just like, yeah, I don't know, like, let's, let's just make something cool together.

• 1:25:39Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 1:25:39Speaker 02

  And like having no, no pressure or feeling. And, and what's so funny is like, it ends up becoming like one of the most important videos.

• 1:25:50Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, like they didn't think that one day Yasi Salek, forty-three years old, is gonna watch Rudy Johnson skate to, uh, Dinosaur Jr.'s cover of Just Like Heaven like seven times in a row.

• 1:25:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, like it's like the.

• 1:26:03Speaker 02

  I mean, I talked to people because it came out before I started skating and I talked to people that are a little bit older and just like, and they just tell me that when that came out, it, it like changed their lives. Like, can you believe it? Like, they were just like, I have never seen anything like this before. And, um, I don't know, that's not gonna happen again in skating.

• 1:26:23Yasi Salek?

  No, maybe it's maybe in a new form of something else, not in skateboarding, maybe it's some other new shit that will, but we won't get it because we're gonna, we won't get it. It's not for us. You know, just the way this wasn't for 43 year olds. When they, when it came out.

• 1:26:38Speaker 02

  Maybe the next best thing will just be like, just plug into something and just

• 1:26:42Yasi Salek?

  Direct.

• 1:26:42Speaker 02

  Like a new

• 1:26:43Yasi Salek?

  Link.

• 1:26:44Speaker 02

  Memory experience will just be downloaded and it's like the closest thing to being like, whoa, that was new.

• 1:26:50Yasi Salek?

  What is the politics or the manners, the decorum of choosing a song that somebody else has already used? Does that ever happen? It feels like it must.

• 1:26:59Speaker 02

  It's happened.

• 1:27:00Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:00Speaker 02

  It's happened a few times. It's happened like famously.

• 1:27:02Yasi Salek?

  Does it cause beef? Tell me.

• 1:27:04Speaker 02

  I've never heard of it causing beef, but it's just a, it's just like a total faux pas.

• 1:27:08Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 1:27:08Speaker 02

  It's just like, what? Especially if you choose a song that is like famously someone else's song. I think like the first example, Nodis skated to this Firehose song in the Santa Cruz video famously, like it's one of his most well-known part. And then this guy, Joe McClellan, skated to it in a Maple video and I think a lot, I think a lot of

• 1:27:28Yasi Salek?

  You skated for Maple.

• 1:27:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I feel like a lot of people were like, what the fuck? Like you cannot use Nodis's song. Like what? I don't know. I don't know what the decision.

• 1:27:36Yasi Salek?

  Do you feel like it was like an accident?

• 1:27:38Speaker 02

  No, it was not an accident because I know who made the video and there's just no way that that was an accident. I think another weird example is, uh, is Paul Rodriguez skated to the Jackson 5 song that Guy Mariano skated to.

• 1:27:50Yasi Salek?

  Was he but kind of trying to be like, I'm also this young prodigy?

• 1:27:53Speaker 02

  Yes, it was kind of like a nod.

• 1:27:55Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 1:27:55Speaker 02

  You know, but also like, what?

• 1:27:57Yasi Salek?

  Also like pick your own song.

• 1:27:58Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, like, there is no, no doubt that Paul Rodriguez was a complete child prodigy.

• 1:28:05Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 1:28:05Speaker 02

  But it's just like, you're gonna use Guy's song? And it wasn't, I'm sure it wasn't his choice, but like, it's just like, what?

• 1:28:12Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 1:28:12Speaker 02

  That is a little bit crazy.

• 1:28:14Yasi Salek?

  Yeah, a little craven.

• 1:28:16Speaker 02

  Because I don't know what, what you're essentially saying is like, you're the next Guy Mariano.

• 1:28:19Yasi Salek?

  Right.

• 1:28:20Speaker 02

  And it's not him.

• 1:28:21Yasi Salek?

  It's a lot of pressure.

• 1:28:21Speaker 02

  I was, it's not Paul.

• 1:28:22Yasi Salek?

  It was probably someone else.

• 1:28:23Speaker 02

  It's someone else, but it's also just like, what? Like that? Oh, I don't know about that. Um, because they're just too different, you know, and I'm trying to think of, you know, the fun, the, that block party song that I, that was used four times. And that's kind of weird.

• 1:28:39Yasi Salek?

  It's a good song.

• 1:28:41Yasi Salek?

  Uh, I don't know.

• 1:28:42Speaker 02

  That was kind of a famously like overused song during that time.

• 1:28:46Yasi Salek?

  The song does go hard. Damn, it was used a lot.

• 1:28:48Speaker 02

  I can't think of.

• 1:28:48Yasi Salek?

  There's like six different videos that this is in.

• 1:28:51Speaker 02

  I can't think of another example of when a song was, it's happened though. And I think like, I don't know, it's never really caused like a huge stir, but I think just like to the audience who cares about it, they're just like, wait a minute, this has already been used.

• 1:29:05Yasi Salek?

  Do you feel like there's, there are some songs that worked really well in the moment, like because it was two thousand eight? But now when that video is watched in the present day, it like did not stand the test of time or like.

• 1:29:25Speaker 02

  Like definitely.

• 1:29:26Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:26Speaker 02

  But it's hard to talk about because like you don't really want to call out.

• 1:29:29Yasi Salek?

  No, no, sure. You don't have to point to anything. I'm just curious if like that's, that's, that's a consideration. If, if maybe that's part of the reason you, there's, you see so much classic rock. Or even like now dinosaur, even to this day, maybe like Sonic Youth, Dinosaur Jr., because you know that it's never going to be embarrassing later. But yeah, it's, it, it fits. It's, it's DNA wise. It's correct, you know?

• 1:29:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. Timelessness is a very like.

• 1:29:56Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:57Speaker 02

  It's a difficult target to hit and to predict. And definitely there's like, there are some like video parts that have come out in the last 20 years where the, the skating itself is just so, so, so mind blowing, but the music was, it just didn't, like it might've hit the first time you watched it, but then the more you watch it, you're just like.

• 1:30:20Yasi Salek?

  Must really hurt that that's like your big skate part. And like then forever you have to be like, damn, it's associated with this like kind of corny song now.

• 1:30:28Speaker 02

  I mean, the video parts that I can think of, like, yeah, that's like, that's like four years of work.

• 1:30:33Yasi Salek?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:33Speaker 02

  You know, so.

• 1:30:36Speaker 02

  I mean, also, and it's also subjective whether a song works or it doesn't, but like, in my opinion, when I like, think about these video parts that I'm thinking of, I'm just like, ooh, that would be devastating.

• 1:30:49Yasi Salek?

  And what is your favorite of your own parts, just in terms of the musical pairing?

• 1:30:56Speaker 02

  Probably Superstar, the song he's covered, just because-

• 1:30:59Yasi Salek?

  Second half of your part in Bag of Socks?

• 1:31:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, just because it, I don't know, it was just sort of a dream of mine to use that song. And it was, like, it wasn't until it was suggested to me by Matt, who made the video, that I was like, yeah, yeah, like, you know, because I didn't want to say it. You know what I mean? Because it was one of those things where it was like, this song is so good that, you know, I was afraid, like, oh, like, I can't skate to this song. And, but he convinced me it was fine, and I think it turned out fine, but.

• 1:31:31Yasi Salek?

  I think it turned out more than fine, judging by some listicles I saw on the internet.

• 1:31:46Speaker 02

  I skated to some, like, I skated to Subject to Change by New Order, and I, that was a shared part with Louis Barletta, and like, I love that song. I think that really-

• 1:31:55Yasi Salek?

  It's a wonderful song.

• 1:31:56Speaker 02

  I think it really went well with our personalities and our skating at the time.

• 1:32:01Yasi Salek?

  I like that you did a Love and Rockets song.

• 1:32:03Speaker 02

  I don't even remember what that is.

• 1:32:05Yasi Salek?

  Osiris.

• 1:32:06Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 1:32:07Yasi Salek?

  Lazy, is this one?

• 1:32:09Speaker 02

  But, yeah, I don't know.

• 1:32:10Yasi Salek?

  You're like, I don't know. And Logway, maybe your last, was that the last one that you did? Pretty America Made, Chapter Two?

• 1:32:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was the, I think that was my last video part before the sci-fi one.

• 1:32:24Yasi Salek?

  All right, well, this has been a real delight, Jerry. I've had such a great time.

• 1:32:29Speaker 02

  This has been extremely delightful.

• 1:32:30Yasi Salek?

  I don't, I don't think in our seventeen-year friendship that I've talked this much to you about your job. And I'm sorry about that, but now I feel I've made up for it. I've, we've really dove deep into your, your industry and your work background.

• 1:32:50Speaker 02

  I'm happy we did this dive.

• 1:32:52Yasi Salek?

  I am too. It made me really happy to watch that Enjoy a Bag of Suck behind the scenes because I was like, oh, that's like right around when I met you. And I was like, oh, that's like, that's my friend. That time was fun, you know, we had fun. And then I was like, damn, he had the coolest job in the world.

• 1:33:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:06Yasi Salek?

  Just drinking beers with a bunch of very random people.

• 1:33:10Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. Getting concussions.

• 1:33:12Yasi Salek?

  Not that they're random, but just like, that one, I was like, wow, like so many different kinds of skateboarders.

• 1:33:19Speaker 02

  Like in that thing?

• 1:33:20Yasi Salek?

  Shapes and sizes, styles.

• 1:33:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:23Yasi Salek?

  Okay. Well, Jerry, thank you so much. This was a real treat and a delight. Come back next week for a new episode of Bands Plan.

• 1:33:36Yasi Salek?

  If you liked what you heard today, subscribe for more episodes of Bands Plan. Our guest today was Jerry Su. You can find him on Instagram at Internet Famous and find out more about sci fi fantasy at sci fi fantasy.co. This episode was produced by Rob Sunderman and edited by Adrian Bridges with help from Justin Sales. Video production by Jacob Corbett and Sarah Ready. Executive producers for Bands Plan are Gina Delvac and me, Yasi Salek. Our gorgeous and catchy theme song was composed and performed by Bethany Cosentino and Jennifer Claven and graciously recorded by Carlos De La Garza in Los Angeles, California. Special thanks to our producer emeritus, producer Dylan, AKA Dylan Tupper Rupert, and also Sean Fantasy and Torrance, California. Come back every Thursday for a new episode

• 1:34:20Yasi Salek?

  of Bands Plan on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.

• 1:34:31Speaker 02

  They leave us alone? All alone?

• 1:34:34Yasi Salek?

  You worry. Call HR.