Octavia Spencer on Her 15-Year “Overnight Success” & Defying Hollywood

Octavia Spencer jokes that she was an “overnight success” 15 years in the making. She and Keke discuss the friends and mentors who shaped her, from Melissa McCarthy to Whoopi Goldberg, plus her sister hanging up on Patrick Swayze. She shares how she trusted herself and defied Hollywood after her Oscar win for The Help and now produces and stars in her own projects, including Amazon Prime’s hit series Ride or Die, opening doors for others. She revisits that iconic Ma bob in a hilarious game. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Keke Palmer?

  Today, I'm sitting down with the incomparable Octavia Spencer. She's a producer and Oscar-winning actress, and now she's starring in and executive producing the new Amazon Prime video series Ride or Die alongside Hannah Wattingham. An action comedy about friendship, secrets, and just how far you'll go for the person you love. It's the kind of role Octavia once had to fight to even be considered for. And now, she's in a position to help decide which stories get told and who gets the chance to tell them. So today, we're talking about the journey from being underestimated to knowing your worth, the friendships that carried her along the way, and what it means to use your success to create opportunities for others.

• 0:44Keke Palmer?

  So, let's get into it, because, baby, this is Keke Palmer. And, baby, this is Octavia Spencer.

• 1:20Keke Palmer?

  Today's episode is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Starbucks. Fall's most iconic beverage is here. The Starbucks Pumpkin Spice Latte is back to kick off the season. Order now on the app.

• 1:35Keke Palmer?

  Come on out, girl!

• 1:39Keke Palmer?

  I'm so happy to see you!

• 1:41Speaker 01

  Look at you, fishing in red!

• 1:43Keke Palmer?

  You smell so good, too.

• 1:45Speaker 01

  Well, thank you, I showered today.

• 1:48Keke Palmer?

  How you doing? How's life right now? You been in town? Have you been relaxing? Has it been busy?

• 1:53Speaker 01

  I have been on tour for this project for a few weeks. And then, I took a couple of weeks of sanity off and went to the Grenadines and just got myself all the way checked.

• 2:13Keke Palmer?

  Now, wait a minute, what's the Grenadine?

• 2:14Speaker 01

  In the Caribbean, Mustique, this beautiful island near St. Vincent.

• 2:19Keke Palmer?

  Ooh, fabulous!

• 2:21Speaker 01

  It was wonderful, darling.

• 2:23Keke Palmer?

  And so, when you said this tour, you were talking about your press tour for Ride or Die?

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:27Keke Palmer?

  I'm so excited for this. The trailer looks... I know we're gonna talk about it, but that trailer looked too good, girl!

• 2:32Speaker 01

  Thank you!

• 2:33Keke Palmer?

  Yes!

• 2:33Speaker 01

  I did it. I did it all.

• 2:35Keke Palmer?

  But I feel like you always are finding these unique, creative projects to do. You know what I'm saying? Like that Ma, girl? We know we gotta stop by Ma at some point, but that movie, girl, it gave us gifts for a lifetime.

• 2:49Speaker 01

  Thank you. Because you know, the opportunities are usually not as varied for us. And so, we have to seek those different types of projects out, right?

• 3:00Keke Palmer?

  Yes, it's serious. Because Hollywood has archetypes. I mean, theater, filmmaking, it all has archetypes. But like, the interesting part is to take those archetypes and put them in a new surrounding and a new env... Like, you can... You know what I'm saying?

• 3:12Speaker 01

  I like to put them in a blender and let things get chopped up. And whatever lands in the new foam is what I get to be. I wanna taste the new flavor.

• 3:23Keke Palmer?

  Okay, let's start with this pre-show pull-up I do with everybody. Now, what is your zodiac sign? Do you know?

• 3:28Speaker 01

  Gemini, but I'm a double Gemini. Gemini, sun and moon. So, you get double the crazy for half the price.

• 3:36Keke Palmer?

  So, do you feel very Gemini?

• 3:38Speaker 01

  No, I don't think anybody feels crazy.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Just feels normal.

• 3:45Keke Palmer?

  And then, what about your rising? Your rising is different.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  I'm sun and moon.

• 3:50Keke Palmer?

  Sun and moon, and then, do you know your ascendant?

• 3:53Speaker 01

  I don't know my ascendant. I think people...

• 3:54Keke Palmer?

  I wonder what it is.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  I think it might scare people, because if I'm a Gemini, sun, moon, and a ascendant, there is some workery.

• 4:04Keke Palmer?

  That is hilarious. What is your love language?

• 4:08Speaker 01

  My love language is food and music. Food and music. I can't separate the two.

• 4:15Keke Palmer?

  Girl, you ain't never lied. I went on a date recently, and this guy ordered the food for me, and it was all good. And I was happy as hell. First of all, the fact that he ordered, and I'm like, I can relax, and then, everything was good?

• 4:28Speaker 01

  Okay, okay.

• 4:29Keke Palmer?

  I was thrilled beyond belief. So, music, what's your music? Are we talking about a jazz club? Are we talking about...

• 4:34Speaker 01

  I like everything. I'm that person, I like jazz, I like hip-hop, I like country music, I like... I mean, just everything.

• 4:42Keke Palmer?

  I'm here for that line dancing up in there, because you can take me to a country place.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  You know Beyonce has brought us all the way back.

• 4:48Speaker 01

  She has got us in our boots.

• 4:50Keke Palmer?

  In the boot, in the hat!

• 4:51Speaker 01

  And some of us shouldn't be wearing boots.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  I'm thinking, I can only do this in my house with this cowboy hat.

• 5:01Keke Palmer?

  A mess, too good. Okay, what is something your friends roast you for? That they get on you, that they care you about?

• 5:08Speaker 01

  Well, because I'm the first one to ask for a dinner party, but I'm never the one to host it. And I always, I used to bring a bagged salad before they were faux pas.

• 5:25Keke Palmer?

  I live for the word faux pas.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, you hear me? That's my middle name.

• 5:28Keke Palmer?

  Faux pas.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  Faux pas.

• 5:34Keke Palmer?

  That is hilarious. So, you're coming up to the dinner party, but you ain't got the right stuff?

• 5:37Speaker 01

  No, and I always, always have my to-go Tupperware.

• 5:41Keke Palmer?

  And that's a faux pas?

• 5:43Speaker 01

  No, not for me.

• 5:44Keke Palmer?

  No, it can't be.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  Not for me. But no, but you shouldn't... Well, I've been knowing these people now for 30 years, so they know I'm gonna show up with my to-go stuff, because...

• 5:55Keke Palmer?

  That's right.

• 5:55Speaker 01

  Nobody eats leftovers the way I do.

• 5:57Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 5:59Speaker 01

  No one's gonna love you the way I do leftovers.

• 6:01Keke Palmer?

  You know what I mean? And no, y'all not gonna eat all this.

• 6:03Speaker 01

  No.

• 6:04Keke Palmer?

  Y'all not gonna eat all this, so let's just cut the... Let's just cut it.

• 6:06Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 6:07Keke Palmer?

  Okay, what is one movie you could watch over and over again?

• 6:12Speaker 01

  I do...

• 6:14Keke Palmer?

  I'm excited to hear that.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Watch The Godfather.

• 6:18Keke Palmer?

  The God... That's a long one.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  You know why? Because it is a lesson. You learn a new acting lesson.

• 6:27Keke Palmer?

  That one scene, I don't know if this is the which Godfather this is, because there's also so many, but the one where the brother is going, getting ready to shoot them all up like that, I can't stand all that.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  I love it. Revenge.

• 6:42Keke Palmer?

  I hate that... Oh, the fam... Family, you know, power, greed. All that stuff sends me into a tizzy. I get too attached to the characters.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  I do, too. Let me tell you something, but that tells you that we've been doing our jobs if we mourn those characters.

• 6:59Keke Palmer?

  Girl!

• 7:00Speaker 01

  If we... And that's one of the reasons I wanna watch again, because the ones that die, the only way you get to see them again is if you start over.

• 7:09Keke Palmer?

  You gotta keep watching the movie.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  You gotta keep watching.

• 7:11Keke Palmer?

  It's so true.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:12Keke Palmer?

  That's so true. Where do you think it was that you first learned you had a love for acting? Was it watching movies and something like this? You know, going to see a show or something?

• 7:20Speaker 01

  I would say, you know, we used to watch TV all the time when I was little. And I... We didn't have money for television all the time, and especially one that had a remote. So, I had six siblings, and at one point during the week, one of us had to stand next to the TV to change the channel.

• 7:41Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 7:42Speaker 01

  And on one particular night, and I... I wanna say it was the Oscars, but it could have been the Emmys. It was my turn to change the channels. And everybody was all dressed up and sparkling and beautiful, and they won prizes. And of course, that just made me happy. I said, what are they doing? And what do they get the prizes for?

• 8:07Keke Palmer?

  I love the prizes.

• 8:08Speaker 01

  The prizes, the prizes, where you have to work hard for those prizes. And my mom didn't try to deter me from that, but it definitely made an impression, just watching all of those artists in a room, some of them being rewarded, some of them not, but all of them being beautiful and talented.

• 8:28Keke Palmer?

  Oh, I love that. I think that's the first time that I've heard that association with the awards in that way. But it is, it is an interesting thing. When you do look outside of whatever it means to win or to lose, it's just, we've all collected here something that we all find to be so important.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  Right.

• 8:43Keke Palmer?

  And that we're excited about sharing with each other. There's something beautiful there. Okay, so, I mean, 30 years in this business?

• 8:51Speaker 01

  You know, the only time I think about it is when I walk into a dark room and have to stop and walk slowly, so I don't... So, I don't fall down. Otherwise, it just feels the same.

• 9:03Keke Palmer?

  It feels like no time is passed.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  But you know very clearly when...

• 9:08Keke Palmer?

  Well, now you've produced yet again, produced and starring in, yet again, another really cool and interesting project called Ride or Die. I mean, I watched the trailer. It looks so cool, exciting. I mean, it's, you know, you could tell us about your character Debbie. I mean, she's accomplished. She's opinionated. She's funny. Really, just a messy, modern mom that discovers that her best friend is a bounty hunter.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  Assassin.

• 9:32Keke Palmer?

  Assassin. She's an assassin. So, so tell me, like, how did you, did, how did you, what was the beginning of this? Did you find, like, the very rough version of the script? Or did you find the writer after you had the idea?

• 9:42Speaker 01

  It was all divine. So, I, uh, my development deal is with Paramount. And, uh, one of my favorite producers, Barbara and Andy Muscati, they're a brother sister team. They were developing this with Paramount.

• 10:00Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  And I got a call one day from my agent that said, hey, they're gonna pitch you this idea. Just because you're in a deal with them, you don't have to say yes. If you like it, you know, just be non-committal and, and, um, and we'll take care of the rest.

• 10:16Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  I was like, guys, this is not my first rodeo. I know not to get married on the first date. And sure enough, I heard the pitch and I went ahead and did it. I got married on the first date.

• 10:29Keke Palmer?

  Oh.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  It was that good.

• 10:31Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  I hadn't heard a pitch that was that compelling. I don't think ever. I've heard good, good.

• 10:40Keke Palmer?

  It is really tough to get a really great pitch.

• 10:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:43Keke Palmer?

  You know, it is.

• 10:44Speaker 01

  They had been developing it with the, the show creator, Tessa Coats, for a while.

• 10:49Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 10:49Speaker 01

  And so then to have Barbara Muscati, um,

• 10:53Keke Palmer?

  I love that last name, Muscati.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  Muscati.

• 10:55Keke Palmer?

  Okay. They sound like they some assassins.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  They are assassins when it comes to, uh, film and television projects. Brilliant taste. So I always trust the taste of the people that I'm, I'm, I'm in business with. And, uh, the, the pitch was there. And then it was about, okay, well, who do you see as, um,

• 11:18Keke Palmer?

  As your partner in crime?

• 11:19Speaker 01

  My partner in crime. And we all immediately said, well, Hannah. And, um, then a few weeks go by, we get a meeting with her. And she does exactly what I did. Of course, her team told her not to say yes.

• 11:36Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  And of course, she was leaned into the,

• 11:39Keke Palmer?

  She's saying, we married.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  Over that Zoom. And at the end, she said, of, of, of course, guys, I, I, I think I mean.

• 11:47Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh. Have we ever seen you play British?

• 11:49Speaker 01

  Well, if you watch episode four, I have to squeak a British accent out.

• 11:55Keke Palmer?

  Girl, 'cause now I wanna, now I wanna movie where you are literally somebody that goes undercover and solves crimes.

• 12:01Speaker 01

  Here's the thing.

• 12:02Keke Palmer?

  As this type of British spy.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  About my British accent. It encompasses all of the accent. I'm posh.

• 12:12Speaker 01

  I'm a chimney sweep.

• 12:13Keke Palmer?

  Actually, that's the undercover layer for this new movie. We find out during the midpoint of the film, she's not British.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  She's not British. She's actually, she's actually,

• 12:24Keke Palmer?

  From the hood, no.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 12:27Keke Palmer?

  Yo, that is too funny. Okay, so you guys get in bed, you do this, this amazing project. I mean, what can we expect?

• 12:35Speaker 01

  I think you are going,

• 12:38Keke Palmer?

  Comedy, action.

• 12:39Speaker 01

  It's comedy. I think a, a, at the outset, people were expecting it to be just a hard comedy.

• 12:46Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  But when you put actors in, uh, situations where one person is withholding a whole side of themselves, I'm like, guys, it's not all going to be fun and games. There's gonna be some anger and there's going to be, uh, betrayal. There's going to be, uh, have feelings of betrayal.

• 13:06Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  And we have to play all of that out and let the, let the comedy come as it should. But just like life, I mean, think about one day in your life. Is one day in your life purely comedy? No.

• 13:20Keke Palmer?

  No, no.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  No. E- even if you tried to say, you know, today, I'm just, it's just going to be horror. One day in your life isn't purely horror. One day in your life isn't purely drama. You have all of those elements, which is why horror is my favorite genre because it encompasses all the others.

• 13:37Keke Palmer?

  Girl, well, when you were just saying that, it was making me think about how the reason why we all loved Masa was, 'cause it was scary, but then also she was funny as hell. But then also it was like, these kids do need a mom.

• 13:47Speaker 01

  These kids might,

• 13:47Keke Palmer?

  They actually do need her.

• 13:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:50Keke Palmer?

  So it's, it's so true. I, I, I'm seeing that consistency. And even if we go all the way back to The Help, The Help had those same things too, where it was like sad, but then it was also like, I love these, you know? And it was like, aha, and then it was like, you know what? We good.

• 14:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:03Keke Palmer?

  It's all of those ranges of emotions where it really doesn't just, it's not just one genre.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 14:08Keke Palmer?

  So I love that. I really do love that. How would you describe your process of be, you know, producing and putting your own movies together? Because I think this is something that, you know, it, it's a lot more difficult than one might imagine.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  It is so difficult. I mean,

• 14:24Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, and I say it from my own experience. It's pretty tough.

• 14:26Speaker 01

  Don't you have a project that you've been kicking about for at least 12, 15 years? You gotta dust that old chestnut off and take it back around, you know?

• 14:36Keke Palmer?

  Oh, it's so true. When do you, what are the signs? Because there's this big thing around packaging, you know, everybody's like, you gotta package everything around. What are you, you feel like your top three things or two things even that let you know that something's gonna come through, that's gonna go through the other side?

• 14:50Speaker 01

  The most important thing, this is why I love writer-directors. I love them with my whole being. Because you can, uh, like a project, but if you get the wrong take on it and the wrong writer, uh, writes it or gets, adapts it, and it's not what you envisioned, it's not any indication of what the, uh, source material was. It's like, oh, we are back at square one. So it is always finding the right writer. And sometimes the right writer hasn't graduated college.

• 15:26Keke Palmer?

  That's, that's real.

• 15:28Speaker 01

  Sometimes,

• 15:29Keke Palmer?

  That's real.

• 15:30Speaker 01

  The right writer, uh, has been put out to pasture because they've reached a certain age. Sometimes the right writer doesn't know that they have it within themselves to create that project. So I believe in the good Lord's time, you know?

• 15:46Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 15:47Speaker 01

  You get it out there. And if it's something that is extremely meaningful to you, then you wait. You, you wait and, and it'll get to the right people.

• 15:57Keke Palmer?

  What you just said right there, that, that, I feel like that's something that I've learned with age. You know, I mean, some of these things, I feel like in my earlier, in my twenties, I would be like, you know, you always feel like you're running out of time or you feel like there's, you know, you're not, you're putting pressure on yourself because you're not doing enough. But it's so true that some things just come with time, with patience, with age. What do you feel like are some of those things for you now at this time in your life that have only come with, with age?

• 16:22Speaker 01

  Uh, being good and recognizing that I'm good at certain things. Um, because we can listen to a lot of, uh, ambient noise, right?

• 16:33Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  And that ambient noise is only there to distract you, only there to deter you from what you know that you're capable of. And so now it's like, is that noise? Let me turn that down. What were you saying? How great I was?

• 16:52Keke Palmer?

  But also,

• 16:53Speaker 01

  You know, uh, but, but, and, and then again, you also need to know that there, there's a discernment that you have, uh, at a certain age where you know, this isn't good for me. I, I need to let this go. So a lot of things happen and come with age. A lot of things, you know?

• 17:12Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, something else that you said, uh, in AARP is you, you know, success isn't about what you accumulate. It's about who's sitting around your table, which ties beautifully with what you were just saying. So who's around your table? Maybe it's not the people, right? But the type of person who, who are at your table?

• 17:29Speaker 01

  The type of people around my table are the type of people, A, all of my siblings.

• 17:34Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 17:35Speaker 01

  You know, you know, you know, family, you get to love each other, warts and all. And sometimes it's very warty. Sometimes it's just too many.

• 17:43Keke Palmer?

  You are too funny.

• 17:45Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? It's like, ah, this is a lot of warts today.

• 17:50Speaker 01

  But they love you, warts and all. And they will be there for you, um, regardless of, of, of need. Um, and then I would say the same thing of my friend family. I don't want you there if you're only there when the sun is shining. I don't want you there. I need you there when it's a flood and we all know I'm, I can only donkey paddle.

• 18:15Speaker 01

  I need somebody who's gonna throw the, the rope out because we know that if I turn over on my back, I, I might be going under. Um, so, uh, you know what I mean?

• 18:25Keke Palmer?

  Funny. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Because so many people are there. I was just talking about it with my mom. So many people are like, I'm with you, I'm with you, I'm with you. Because you're risking it all. The moment that it means that they have to risk something, you know where to find them.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 18:39Keke Palmer?

  You know, they're suddenly scared.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:40Keke Palmer?

  You know, but they're ready for all the shine when it's time for things to shine. So, yeah, I could agree with you more.

• 18:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I, I want creatives

• 18:47Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  around my table because it, it, it gets dull out there if nothing is being invented. You know, if all we're sitting around is just, just rewatching The Godfather, nobody else is creating anything. You know, I love The Godfather, but can we do something else?

• 19:06Keke Palmer?

  Even let it be a re-interation.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:09Keke Palmer?

  Stepfather.

• 19:09Speaker 01

  Step-godfather.

• 19:13Keke Palmer?

  Something.

• 19:14Speaker 01

  Something.

• 19:15Keke Palmer?

  Girl, that is so true. I need the creative minds too, because also it, it ends up not being you that keeps bringing something to, you know, and the funny thing is, I think that everybody is creative to some degree, but it's like, are you open that door? Are you opening that door and living in that space?

• 19:28Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 19:29Keke Palmer?

  Basically.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  And nurturers, don't you want people who nurture not just the children around us, but the children within us?

• 19:37Keke Palmer?

  Girl, and I feel like, I'm not saying that guys aren't nurturers. I'm not saying that.

• 19:41Speaker 01

  I, I need guys to be nurturers for other things. I don't, I, I need my girlfriends to be the,

• 19:46Keke Palmer?

  But that's what I, I realized that in my life, that's why I've always been like, women, women, women, women, women. Anywhere I could find because of that.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:55Keke Palmer?

  That nurturing energy. You know what I'm saying? It's like women have such this amazing quality and ability to just be able to really see you.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  I think if guys nurtured the boys within their friend group and if women continued to nurture the girls within our friend groups, oh my God, how great the world would be.

• 20:15Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, nurturing is necessary. It's not just something we need when we are kids.

• 20:19Speaker 01

  You gotta dad somebody. You gotta mom somebody, you know? Dad your friends, dad. Dad them.

• 20:25Keke Palmer?

  Dad them down.

• 20:25Speaker 01

  Dad them. Let's coin that. Mom them. Dad them.

• 20:31Keke Palmer?

  New movie.

• 20:34Keke Palmer?

  There we go, creating again. Okay. You came up with a lot of dope people, too. I mean, we're talking Allison Janney, Melissa McCarthy, Tate Taylor. I mean, when nobody had tons of stuff going on, but y'all had time. You know what I mean? What did you spend your time doing? How did you guys get to create a, a, a, a group?

• 20:53Speaker 01

  Well, Melissa McCarthy and her husband Ben have always been creatives. They have always written and they've always.

• 21:02Keke Palmer?

  I just love that duo, that duo vibe.

• 21:04Speaker 01

  Let me tell you something.

• 21:05Keke Palmer?

  So kick ass.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  I love that we're neighbors. I love that they know that I, uh, like getting dressed for work, but if I'm around the house, I don't. And they call it a sweatpants night. They're like, hey, we're making burgers, it's sweatpants night. And if they're having other people over, they'll let me know it's not a sweatpants night. But they are the most inclusive friends when it comes to work. They always create work for their friends to, so their friends can eat. Uh, our friend Jordan Black also, he creates so that his friends can eat. But I think that is born out of the Groundlings, like people who do.

• 21:43Keke Palmer?

  You went to Groundlings?

• 21:44Speaker 01

  I took their, um, the.

• 21:47Keke Palmer?

  One of their workshops?

• 21:48Speaker 01

  One of the workshops, yeah.

• 21:49Keke Palmer?

  Wow, I didn't even know that.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  It's invaluable.

• 21:52Keke Palmer?

  I mean, you were so funny. You were really so insanely funny and it's, again, I think sometimes we don't really, in case somebody does, uh, does stand up, sometimes you don't really realize that their drama is also coming from their humor. So it's so crazy to hear that you actually had some, you know, formal stuff with comedy? Cause I'm like, yeah, you're just hilarious.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  You have to take Groundlings. I took Tony Sapoloda's class and it was.

• 22:17Keke Palmer?

  Not Sapoloda?

• 22:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 22:18Keke Palmer?

  Boulevard?

• 22:19Speaker 01

  Boulevard. I really want to know his people. Tony, let me holler at you. Can you hook me up with the Sapolodas?

• 22:26Keke Palmer?

  Okay, yo.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  I need a pass to get down to Sapoloda quickly.

• 22:31Keke Palmer?

  Definitely need that pass.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 22:33Keke Palmer?

  Um, wow, that's incredible. So anyway, so, so it came from, you feel like that, was that the era? Or was it just the community of, of, of when you get into a comedy space like that? Or comedy community like that?

• 22:44Speaker 01

  I think it was, so my friend Stephen Rogers, who wrote, um, I, Tanya.

• 22:49Keke Palmer?

  I love that movie.

• 22:51Speaker 01

  We got Allison Janney and, um, Melissa McCarthy and all, anybody from the Groundlings that you know. I got them from Tate. Tate was in Groundlings.

• 23:01Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 23:02Speaker 01

  And then I took Groundlings, um, after, after those guys.

• 23:05Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 23:07Speaker 01

  But Stephen Rogers, um, huge writer, and I, I call him my bankroll.

• 23:14Speaker 01

  Back in the day, uh, because he bankrolled all of us, honestly. He wrote, you know, Hope Floats, he wrote Kate and Leopold. He was our rich friend who loaned us all money when we were broke. He told me I was the only one who paid him every cent back.

• 23:31Speaker 01

  And I did, because I didn't know if I was gonna need to borrow it from him.

• 23:37Keke Palmer?

  This is just what we call recursive?

• 23:39Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly. But I've always been, I, I mean, always had, you know, Josh Hopkins.

• 23:48Keke Palmer?

  I think it's so crazy and cool how when we hear these names, it's, it's so important, I think, especially anybody watching, wherever they are in their career right now, especially if they feel like they're not getting the visibility that they want or they feel they deserve. It's like, it always seems like, oh my gosh, it's so crazy you all knew each other, like, but at the time, it wasn't that. We were all just, you know, it's like, obviously you're so happy that you all have become who you've become. But I think it's so interesting to know that, like, people also were just like building community, being friends.

• 24:16Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 24:17Keke Palmer?

  It was what it, what it became, you know?

• 24:18Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 24:19Keke Palmer?

  And that goes back to that time piece.

• 24:21Speaker 01

  And, and the only, the only difference is they were just being paid to create. You know, they, they made the same, like, right now, I'm, I'm doing a movie, uh, with Ben and Melissa.

• 24:34Keke Palmer?

  Yep.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  Uh, that they wrote. Um, it's just what we've always done, what we've always done.

• 24:41Keke Palmer?

  And I think it's so important to say that, cause again, and, and Issa Rae talks about this a lot, too. She talks about, instead of going, trying to go whatever you think up is, go to the side. Go to the person, build and create with that person that's already in the trenches with you. Because you already actually have everything you need. And whatever accolades or whatever visibility that's gonna come, it's going to come. Just be, just do the work.

• 25:02Speaker 01

  Do the work.

• 25:03Keke Palmer?

  Do the work.

• 25:04Speaker 01

  And do good work and, and, and good work, uh, will warrant that, will warrant success. And, and will warrant accolades, but sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes you just have great work out there, you know?

• 25:17Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And impact.

• 25:18Speaker 01

  And impact.

• 25:19Keke Palmer?

  You know?

• 25:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's, that's most definitely true.

• 25:22Keke Palmer?

  I feel you. So you grew up in Alabama?

• 25:24Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:25Keke Palmer?

  You're one of six.

• 25:26Speaker 01

  One of seven.

• 25:27Keke Palmer?

  One of seven, oh my gosh, one of seven, big family. What was your role, you know what I mean, in the household? And, and what, what got you in the most trouble?

• 25:35Speaker 01

  Talking.

• 25:44Keke Palmer?

  You know what just came back into my life like it never left?

• 25:49Keke Palmer?

  The Starbucks Pumpkin Spice Latte. And the second I saw it on my Starbucks app, I knew fall was just around the corner. The first sip took me right back to that fall feeling. And I remember how much I love this part of the year. I can't wait for the leaves to have their whole moment and the air to finally have some personality to it. When I actually want to be outside instead of rushing past everything, that's what I'm excited for. It's funny how a walk I've done a hundred times feels brand new just because fall is almost here. That's the thing about fall rituals, they're familiar in the best way. The iconic Starbucks Pumpkin Spice Latte falls right into that category for me.

• 26:31Keke Palmer?

  Same drink, same me, but somehow it feels like a whole moment every single time it comes back. So let this be your sign to slow down, soak the season in, and grab a Starbucks Pumpkin Spice Latte as fall begins. Celebrate fall with the return of the iconic Pumpkin Spice Latte. Order now on the Starbucks app.

• 26:56Keke Palmer?

  Tastes like fall. I think I just found our next family trip and it's Asheville, North Carolina. Yes, September is when the leaves start turning and I am building this entire trip around a porch. I need to find a home on Airbnb with a real porch, because I can already picture mornings out there with coffee and evenings watching the mountains change color while my parents pretend they're not getting emotional about it. I'm putting the River Arts District on the list, too, because watching Glassblower's work is like the kind of thing that my sister will talk about for years. My dad's already asking if Asheville has good barbecue, which yes, obviously, that's so locked in. We're also doing the Biltmore one afternoon.

• 27:39Keke Palmer?

  It's this gorgeous Gilded Age mansion right outside of the city that makes you feel like you've been transported to Versailles. I want to watch my parents walk those gardens like kids again. So what I'm saying is, find a place to stay on Airbnb in Asheville this fall. I'm building the whole trip around that porch so we can get that magical home away from home feel. And I'm not even sorry about it.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  Talking, talking would get you in a lot of trouble.

• 28:07Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, it would.

• 28:07Speaker 01

  Well, you know, loose lips sink ships. And I had older sisters and they were trying to be sinking some ships. Well, no, they didn't want you sinking ships.

• 28:16Keke Palmer?

  Of course.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  And, um.

• 28:17Keke Palmer?

  And you was telling they damn business, girl.

• 28:19Speaker 01

  Too much telling.

• 28:20Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh, not the tattle-tale.

• 28:22Speaker 01

  But you don't know that you're telling.

• 28:24Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, cause you just want to have something to talk about.

• 28:26Speaker 01

  You just want to have something to talk about, you know? Oh, such and such, that cute boy came, that cute boy came over? You know, oh, so now we know loose lips.

• 28:36Keke Palmer?

  Dang. Now, are you the baby girl?

• 28:39Speaker 01

  I'm the next of the youngest. I have a younger sister.

• 28:41Keke Palmer?

  Youngest, so all girls?

• 28:43Speaker 01

  Six girls, one boy, the boy is the oldest.

• 28:45Keke Palmer?

  Okay, that must've been fun having an older one. He must be quite a few years older than you, if you were almost the second, okay, great, yeah. Wow, and so it was, it was great growing up in that, in the house together in, in Alabama. What do you remember about growing up in the South like that?

• 28:58Speaker 01

  I can't tell you. I, I, I feel bad for people who don't have siblings and a, a, a bunch of them. Because I certainly have, uh, people who know every aspect of my life, every aspect of my upbringing. And they're the only people who know your specific history.

• 29:19Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 29:20Keke Palmer?

  I feel that's, I mean, I imagine everybody, I guess, feels that way about their family or their siblings or whatever. But I feel like for my, for me, I've grown to appreciate it even more because I started performing so young.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:31Keke Palmer?

  And like, they're the, they're some of the only people that I will ever know when I meet now that didn't know me first as an entertainer. And that's like invaluable to me, because they remember the me that wasn't yet perceived. And so it's like, it's that, the siblings, like, I mean, we was up late at night playing shark, like, it's just like, all the silly things you would do. Oh my gosh, girl, Monopoly, none of them want to make a deal with me. Cause they know as soon as I get that building, it's going up.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and I'm collecting every dime.

• 30:02Keke Palmer?

  Every damn dime.

• 30:03Speaker 01

  Unless I go broke, you will never pay rent.

• 30:06Keke Palmer?

  Guys, I mean, girl, that is literally what they do to me. I hated that with my family. They never want to sell me nothing.

• 30:11Speaker 01

  We need to get more Monopoly games out there to teach people about business.

• 30:15Keke Palmer?

  Okay, learn how to collaborate.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  Collaborate.

• 30:17Keke Palmer?

  Don't win just by going cold.

• 30:19Speaker 01

  Learn how to collaborate and collect.

• 30:21Keke Palmer?

  Period.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 30:23Keke Palmer?

  Um, now you said your mother taught you and your sisters that there were no limitations on your lives, except the ones you placed on yourself. Obviously, you've, you've, you've lived your life that way and done the incredible things. What would you say is most, that is most like your mother about you?

• 30:38Speaker 01

  Well, the fact that I moved to Hollywood, um, right after college with $3,000 to my name, one of the old TVs, the big one.

• 30:51Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, with that, it had a booty on it.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  It had, it had a booty and a belly.

• 30:55Keke Palmer?

  Yes. I know exactly, we're talking about the screen, it had the curvature.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  It had that curvature. And it was too big to fit in my trunk. So I had it on the backseat and I had it covered with clothes. Um, cause I didn't know if I was gonna be able to afford a TV. Remember how those TVs used to cost a lot of money?

• 31:13Keke Palmer?

  They did.

• 31:13Speaker 01

  Now all these smart ones are cheap.

• 31:16Keke Palmer?

  Cause they probably make them so quick.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know?

• 31:18Keke Palmer?

  It's another story.

• 31:19Speaker 01

  Um, but I, oh man, I, I, when I look at where we are today in time and technology.

• 31:28Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  Would I have been? The same brave child that I was when I moved out here.

• 31:36Keke Palmer?

  Now, this is interesting. And I think this is dope when we go with this because are you saying that maybe seeing as much as sometimes the kids do can be a little bit of what paralyzes you to go forward?

• 31:48Speaker 01

  I think that's why a lot of this generation is feeling.

• 31:54Keke Palmer?

  Apathetic?

• 31:55Speaker 01

  I think that they have, they're exposed, the whole world is in the palm of their hands.

• 32:00Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 32:01Speaker 01

  And we had to go out to discover the whole world. Or we thought it was the whole world, but it was actually just down to the corner store. You know what I mean?

• 32:08Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 32:08Speaker 01

  But when you can access anywhere, everywhere, and the way it's curated, it makes it appear to be the most exotic, the most exciting. And then there's just little old you and you're just sitting in your basement, making content. I think it does a number and quite a.

• 32:31Keke Palmer?

  So it does two things that I'm hearing. First of all, there's not that, curiosity breeds excitement, period. When you don't know, you don't have expectations, you're willing to go out into search for something because it doesn't even feel like bravery. It just feels like you exploring. That's lost once you get too exposed to some things. And then, again, that expectation piece, once you go somewhere with a certain expectation. I'm moving to California with $3,000 in my pocket. I done seen somebody online did it and they became number one TikToker. When you go and that doesn't happen for you, now you feel like you're a failure.

• 33:04Speaker 01

  Preach.

• 33:05Keke Palmer?

  That's, that's really.

• 33:06Speaker 01

  And then everybody has this truncated amount of time that this is supposed to happen. I, I still say I became an overnight success in 15 years.

• 33:17Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 33:17Speaker 01

  But in the 15 years, I was working as an actor. I was learning. I was taking classes, three to four days a week. There was never a dull moment. And I thank God and Jesus and the entire council.

• 33:33Keke Palmer?

  Yes, council.

• 33:35Speaker 01

  The entire council of saints. That I knew nothing about the internet as it is now. Because it literally, it robs you of that curiosity.

• 33:46Keke Palmer?

  And it makes what you said at the beginning of this conversation, which is turning down those distractions. It makes that 10 times harder.

• 33:53Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 33:54Keke Palmer?

  10 times harder because I feel like I had a little bit of both. Like I came up before social media was really a thing. And then like my career expanded in the middle of social media becoming a thing. And I feel like I was constantly tuning that radio. And it was like, it became, like it, it can breathe so much anxiety.

• 34:10Speaker 01

  It's an appendage, right? It becomes an appendage.

• 34:12Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 34:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:14Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh. It becomes this added layer that really doesn't let you rest. And I was actually just having this conversation with myself the other day where it's like, how much time have I been giving to opinions? That don't deserve it. I'm not talking about the fact that, you know, one thing about me, I think I used to always be happy about is, I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do regardless, right? I don't care what anybody says, I don't care what anybody, I'm gonna always do what I'm gonna do regardless. And so I always felt like, yeah, that was my strong suit is that I, I listened to only my voice. But what about the hours and hours and hours and hours of perspective shifting? That I've done, being in what somebody else said about me? Why am I even, why do I even, why do I even? My gift of point of view seeing that's reserved for my performing?

• 34:57Keke Palmer?

  It doesn't deserve to be in this space where I'm now sitting in the position of what this troll thought. Or what they said about me. Now I gotta see their POV. POV is trash.

• 35:05Speaker 01

  Think about the trolls sitting under those overpasses, underpasses, wherever they sit, okay? It is their job to spit vitriol, to humiliate. It is, how, how often do you see a person in the comment section, you know, spreading light and joy? Like being, being Betty White.

• 35:30Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 35:30Speaker 01

  You know? If you can't be Betty White, don't be in the comment section.

• 35:35Keke Palmer?

  That's right. That's right.

• 35:37Speaker 01

  Everybody, no matter what you think is going on by what, what is shown on the internet, everybody has some type of crisis in their life. Everyone.

• 35:46Keke Palmer?

  Everyone.

• 35:47Speaker 01

  So don't be, don't be a troll. Be a Betty White. Be a Betty White.

• 35:51Keke Palmer?

  I love Betty. Rest in peace. We need that Betty. We need her. You've talked about struggling with dyslexia. But that a teacher in your school noticed that mysteries is what kind of got you excited to read. What do you think that she was able to pick up on in that moment in time? Like that let her know it was mysteries and why was it mysteries, you think?

• 36:10Speaker 01

  I think that that was something that she perhaps gleaned early on because she had had so many kids.

• 36:17Keke Palmer?

  Gleaned. I love that word.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  Gleaned, gleaned, gleaned.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  Very much from my British side, you see. I'm keen to glean.

• 36:29Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  I, I, I do think it's because it was, you know, numbers. She's, she done it a lot.

• 36:38Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  And the one way to have, to keep a child engaged with a narrative is to have something in it for them. And if there's a clue in it for you and you get to be the hero that solves the mystery. And so that was the thing. And of course, as much as I wanted to throw the books down, I'm so sick of this book. And then you just keep reading because you don't know what a clue. And then they start to pop out. And that's how I actually navigate my life now. A friend in this room, I had to use some deductive reasoning because they thought they had lost their wallet. And I, I, raise your hand, friend, if you're in the room.

• 37:24Speaker 01

  It's Chad. He's not in the room.

• 37:26Keke Palmer?

  It was your other girl. I literally looked over there. She said, no.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  Chad Ludwig. I'm name dropping. But no, I, I do it all the time. I have to. It's just, it's, it's how I, I see life.

• 37:39Keke Palmer?

  What a fabulous teacher. And so, yeah, this interesting thing of how you see life is like solving this, these elements.

• 37:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's in the details.

• 37:48Keke Palmer?

  It's in the details.

• 37:49Speaker 01

  Everything's in the details.

• 37:51Keke Palmer?

  Wow. It must be some Virgo in her chart.

• 37:54Speaker 01

  I must be a Virgo rising, Virgo landing.

• 37:56Keke Palmer?

  Honestly, Gemini is a really good, Virgo landing is crazy.

• 38:00Speaker 01

  I landed on a Virgo.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  One or two times.

• 38:04Keke Palmer?

  I'm howling. So this was cool to me because this is another one of those things where it's like, you and Whoopi Goldberg worked together before. When you were 17, you did the long walk home and it came to Alabama and you somehow talked your way into interning on the project. So we gotta talk about that.

• 38:20Speaker 01

  I somehow, by calling every single day for about eight weeks, and then dropping by the local, oh, honey, I was that girl.

• 38:32Keke Palmer?

  And they didn't take you to jail?

• 38:33Speaker 01

  No, they didn't take me to jail because they were hiring, hiring. I drive my Yost to hiring.

• 38:39Keke Palmer?

  That is amazing. And so what were you, were you PA on there?

• 38:44Speaker 01

  I was an intern.

• 38:45Keke Palmer?

  You were an intern?

• 38:46Speaker 01

  And, God, that's 40 years.

• 38:50Keke Palmer?

  What did they have you doing? Was you, was you like in the office?

• 38:53Speaker 01

  Okay, so our production office was a giant warehouse. It was a furniture store. Giant. And they put all, all the department heads had desks there, all, all the departments. So you walk in and you could see the whole of production. It was like this giant bullpen. And I worked in extras. And I made a hundred dollars a week. I was so rich, making a hundred dollars a week. And I'll never forget when Patrick Swayze came to town to visit Whoopi, right before they did Ghost. I, my sister was in love with Patrick Swayze.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  And I met him and I said, will you, will you please call my sister because she's not gonna believe me? And we call, I call, I call, and she's on the other line. And, and, and she's like, hello? And I, before I can get it, I gotta go because she was talking to some boy. And she hung up and he said, I'll call back. And we call back and she's like, hello? And she hung up.

• 39:56Keke Palmer?

  What the hell?

• 39:57Speaker 01

  She never got to talk to Patrick Swayze. So I get home and it was all over the news that Patrick Swayze had been in town. And, and I said, yeah, he, he, he called you. And she was like, what? And so now, if I call her from set, she's always, hold on, hold on. Hello? Is somebody on the phone? I'm like, no, I am never going to call you again.

• 40:21Keke Palmer?

  I know she.

• 40:22Speaker 01

  She died.

• 40:23Keke Palmer?

  Devastation. That's happened to me with my sisters before and I, but because of this day-old technology, I do a video.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:30Keke Palmer?

  But damn.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  Well, I did have Blair, uh, uh, uh, I always, we, we make a joke, and I was just about to say Blair underwear. Almost it. They call him, they call him Blair underwear. Blair Underwood, my friend and colleague.

• 40:44Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh, Blair, I love him so much.

• 40:48Speaker 01

  I had him leave a message, but I, I don't, I, I stay out of that business.

• 40:50Keke Palmer?

  Did you ever see this movie that Blair did called Asunder?

• 40:53Speaker 01

  No.

• 40:54Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 40:56Speaker 01

  I think that might be a re-watch. And once I watch it, I have to re-watch.

• 41:00Keke Palmer?

  It's kind of like on that Fatal Attraction type vibe. Girl, Blair is a fool in that one. That's a good one.

• 41:07Speaker 01

  I may have to see Asunder.

• 41:08Keke Palmer?

  I love that Blair underwear, that's fabulous.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  Don't, oh, see. It's not me, Blair. It's not me, it was my Freudian, Freudian slip of my sisters.

• 41:19Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh. But on this movie, Whoopi Goldberg, you guys end up speaking, and you were telling her about, hey, maybe I'm not gonna go to school because I'm gonna do this acting thing, and she says, get your education.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  Here's the wonderful thing about being on a set. Um, because it becomes your second family.

• 41:36Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 41:36Speaker 01

  If you are a part of the crew. And I was on that set for like, five, six months. And she organically heard my story. She organically knew that I was supposed to be in college because I took, I took that semester off to work on the movie. And she knew that education was very important to my mom. And of course, after being a part of the circus, you want to go join. And she was like, no, the circus will be there. You, you need to get your education like you promised your mom you would. And I did. And she was shooting Clara's Heart in South Africa.

• 42:17Speaker 01

  And had her brother call me to say, we, uh, Whoop knows it's graduation day, and she's in, in Africa. And I didn't want to disturb you with the time difference. So I'm calling you to let you know that she loves you. And she'll, uh, reach, uh, out to you a little, a little earlier in your time, a little later in her time. Yeah, Whoopi stayed.

• 42:45Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh. I just love Whoop.

• 42:50Speaker 01

  Honey, we love Whoopi for all reasons. She was the first one of us women that allowed us to know that we could be box office successes. We didn't have to be somebody's friend.

• 43:02Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  We could be the main character.

• 43:05Keke Palmer?

  The one.

• 43:06Speaker 01

  And, you know, for the people who don't know, it began with Whoopi for me. And it will end with Whoopi for me. I, I, we, I gotta find something else for us to do.

• 43:18Keke Palmer?

  And let me be the little sister. Come on, put me a role, give me a role, girl.

• 43:23Speaker 01

  We need it, we need it.

• 43:25Keke Palmer?

  I would live.

• 43:26Speaker 01

  I would live too.

• 43:27Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh, that is, so I love hearing those things because you see how so blessed some people are, you know what I'm saying? Or you, what you, how you feel about them. And Whoopi is one of those people, and you see why. It's more than just the work, it's the person.

• 43:41Speaker 01

  And listen to how crazy this is. Uh, Ride or Die debuted on Prime on July 15th. For whatever reason, I hadn't been on The View in 10 years. Maybe, well, maybe it was my, my whole COVID of it all. I'm not going anywhere. Yeah. Um, so, and I have, I have a project that I'm doing with Sunny. And, uh, with, uh, you know, you know my history with Whoopi.

• 44:10Keke Palmer?

  Of course.

• 44:10Speaker 01

  It premiered on the day that I was on The View. And I got to plant some seeds, uh, for Sunny and throw some flowers to Whoopi, all on the same day because I felt like it was meant to be, it was meant to be that day.

• 44:24Keke Palmer?

  I'm very much that meant-to-be type of person. I feel like the stars are, you know, totally in alignment with Source. And I'm just so, and so these magical moments, I love, I love.

• 44:33Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 44:34Keke Palmer?

  It's so awesome. Yeah, you, you've joked, even in this conversation and often, about this 15-year success. Because a lot of people are always feeling like, because they just found you. You've just arrived. Um, did you ever, in those 15 years of steady working, think about giving up? Or what was your attachment to? What did you think success would have been for you? What were you looking for it to be?

• 44:57Speaker 01

  Well, success for me was somebody paying me to go and do what I love to do. And then another somebody paid me. And then another, and so then I got an agent to say, well, we just can't start showing up for every somebody. We, we have to craft a career. And, um, so that's how it began. And I loved the thought of being on a set with Will Smith, wanting to see how he navigated a scene. I loved the idea of, let me tell you, what people don't realize is The Help had Sissy Spacek, Academy Award winner, Mary Steenburgen, Academy Award winner,

• 45:41Speaker 01

  Cicely Tyson, Academy Award nominee multiple, and then, uh, won it posthumously. And then all of the girls that came after. Uh, we, there were so many titans of, of, of the, the industry. Why would you not want to be in their presence? And just kind of be that potted plant and watch them work?

• 46:06Keke Palmer?

  Without a doubt.

• 46:06Speaker 01

  You know, I, I love it. So there was, there was never a moment that I thought, I should try something new. Because then I thought, well, what would it be? What would it be? Hmm, now I'm sticking with this.

• 46:19Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. And I think the key of so much of what you're saying too, like, the main thing that caught me, and it's the same thing that I feel about my career too, is this being able to do what I love sustainably.

• 46:29Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 46:29Keke Palmer?

  It's such a difficult career that, and, and I'll be honest, when I was coming up, aside from seeing an award show in a beautiful event, I really didn't know what fame was or care about what fame could be. I cared about being able to do the thing. And so I think, yeah, like, just, success has always, again, visibility, that's one thing, but you can be successful and not be visible.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, see, I, I like that.

• 46:51Keke Palmer?

  You can be visible and not be successful.

• 46:53Speaker 01

  See, I, I like being successful and not being visible. I like, I like being able to walk into, you know, a grocery store with my sumo ball, no makeup, sweatpants. And people always go, I think that's, mm-mm, that's not her. Because why, why would she look like that?

• 47:13Keke Palmer?

  I think that's.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  Um, it's not, it's not, honey. And then I love it when they say, are you Olivia Spencer? And I can honestly say, I am not. I am not Olivia.

• 47:25Keke Palmer?

  You know what happens to me sometimes? What's your name? I don't know.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  What's your name?

• 47:34Keke Palmer?

  Now you put me on, now I'm playing a game.

• 47:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was like.

• 47:36Keke Palmer?

  How do we get here? No hello.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  No.

• 47:39Keke Palmer?

  I know you.

• 47:40Speaker 01

  I know you.

• 47:40Keke Palmer?

  What's your name?

• 47:41Speaker 01

  And then I, but, and you try to let them off easily when you say, I don't think we've met, oh, no, I know you. Um, and then they start going down the.

• 47:49Keke Palmer?

  Name the movies.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  Well, see, I love it when they don't even name the movie. Well, uh, did you work at, uh, at the Hyatt? Uh, I did, I did. Yes. Oh, my God, how are you doing? It just shuts it all down. You just say yes. That's the thing that, that, um, Groundlings taught you. Yes, and, yes, everything, yes.

• 48:14Keke Palmer?

  Anything hap, I, I had this lady at their point, do you want to even tell you that you look like Keke Palmer? And I was like, much prettier. Now look at you.

• 48:23Speaker 01

  Now look at you insulting me.

• 48:26Keke Palmer?

  What do you mean, much prettier? Anyhow, um, in a world where someone can go viral overnight, and we've kind of been talking about this, like, the, the, the, the ideas of success, the expectations, what can come of it. But then a lot of people are getting real, it's actually happening. They're coming, it's happening, and it's happening fast. Do you think that in there, there might be some steps that could be missing? Um, that, that, that would be in preparation of that sustainability that we're speaking to?

• 48:56Speaker 01

  Uh, listen, given that what we do is, people think it's easy because you're just, you know, wearing costumes and looking far out into the distance and making faces, or so it seems. Um, for anyone to reach success, I applaud them. But if your goal is to be a trained actor and you, uh, are catapulted into this arena because some prank that you pulled on somebody made you famous, they're very, very different.

• 49:32Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  You, you, you're gonna get on a set, standing in a scene with Robert Downey Jr., Viola Davis, you, me, and you're gonna have to deliver it, an emotional scene. And if you can't do that, I'm not saying don't go pull pranks on people and make your money that way, but get into an acting class and learn the craft.

• 49:55Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 49:55Speaker 01

  Learn.

• 49:56Keke Palmer?

  So you think learning the craft is a big thing? I'm curious what your thoughts are about just immediate fame. Because I think about this a lot. Like, fame to me, it traumatized me when I was a kid. And obviously, you know, there's moments of it. There's like, extreme popularity, trendy, everybody's talking. And then there's just like, yeah, yeah, you know? I've gone through so many phases of that. And it was traumatizing at its height when I was a teenager. And then I felt the same feeling bubbling again right after I did Nope and, you know, all that kind of stuff. And I was more prepared for it the second time around. That kind of like, everybody, ah! Um, how, how, how, how was your relationship with that? With the extreme visibility, popularity, the fame?

• 50:39Speaker 01

  I don't think I have extreme visibility. And I'm grateful for that. You know what I mean? I love acting. I love that if it's not around a show, that people take no interest. You're also a young, beautiful girl, and everybody's gonna be interested in who you're dating and who you're not dating. People are vested in your personal life. So I would say, don't give them any reason. Don't put your personal life out there.

• 51:10Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 51:10Speaker 01

  Keep your personal life to you and yours. And let them be just about the work. And then, when they get enough of seeing you, what you want them to see. And then if you want to peel the curtain back a little bit, but once you peel it back, somebody's gonna be ripping the covers off. Like, right now, I can't get enough of Thomas and Daya. I'm like, where are you? Where did you guys go? Oh, my God. I need more Tom and Daya.

• 51:40Keke Palmer?

  Where did you guys go?

• 51:41Speaker 01

  Where did you go?

• 51:42Keke Palmer?

  It's taking me clean out. They're like, at home, ma'am.

• 51:45Speaker 01

  We're at home.

• 51:46Keke Palmer?

  They said, that's that mo [BLEEP].

• 51:47Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying? Don't you know I bought popcorn to watch this whole press release?

• 51:55Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh. But it's true that the whole dating thing is big.

• 52:00Speaker 01

  Yes, it is scary. And the thing that I don't like about what we do is the disrespect to, and it's mostly women that it happens to. When you move on to another partner, somebody for clicks

• 52:17Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 52:17Speaker 01

  thinks it's OK to revisit someone you dated. And they see this tall, dark, and handsome man right next to you who is not that person. So I say, I'm glad that that's not my thing. Because remember Sheree from Real Housewives?

• 52:38Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah, sure.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  Who gonna check, Naboo? I will. I will check you.

• 52:43Keke Palmer?

  I live, who gonna check Naboo? Uh-uh, who gonna check Naboo?

• 52:44Speaker 01

  I'm gonna check you. Don't get in my business. I will become a librarian at that point, checking you.

• 52:53Keke Palmer?

  Literally.

• 52:54Speaker 01

  Don't get in people's personal business.

• 52:57Keke Palmer?

  So the question about your dating life.

• 53:00Speaker 01

  Look, look, look.

• 53:01Keke Palmer?

  Will you just remove it? I saw a ring on your finger. I thought it was up for talk, so.

• 53:07Speaker 01

  Well, it is. It's like, isn't it pretty? So shiny.

• 53:12Keke Palmer?

  That's where it begins and ends.

• 53:15Speaker 01

  No, it's just, you know how hard it is.

• 53:17Keke Palmer?

  You know, I know exactly what you're talking about. And it's interesting, though, because I feel like so much of my life, up until social media, it just was my job. You know, especially because of, as I started to grow older, and people said, I was like, I really want to keep my romantic life private. But also, I was just kind of like a nerd about my craft. You know what I mean? You know, it's like, I just, I never came up for air, y'all. It wasn't Kiki Keep a Bag because I wasn't grinding.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 53:44Keke Palmer?

  It's hard to date and to find people and to even experience enough relationships to know what you want. It's like, I always tell people, you know them basketball players that you see? They don't know how to talk about nothing else but basketball? Yeah, that was me.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:57Keke Palmer?

  You know, that's my main judge, where it's like, I'm so dedicated to my craft. And so, it hasn't been till later years that I've really tried to give myself a chance to even know what it is to date.

• 54:07Speaker 01

  And let me tell you something. On this side of 40.

• 54:12Keke Palmer?

  It's a long pause, Octavia.

• 54:14Speaker 01

  I'm like, which side do I want to really say? Do I want to say 56 or do I want to say 40? We're gonna keep it young.

• 54:21Keke Palmer?

  Both are fabulous, because you look fabulous.

• 54:23Speaker 01

  Thank you. 56, then.

• 54:27Speaker 01

  On this side of things, where

• 54:31Speaker 01

  I would say, I'm glad for you that you have a child, because we just get into the grind of things. And the years, the weeks turn into months, turn into years, turn into decades. And you look back, and you're like, wait a minute. Is it, has 10 years actually passed? So always make time for yourself. Always make time for yourself.

• 54:58Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 54:59Speaker 01

  And I'm learning that in this wonderful old age of 56.

• 55:05Keke Palmer?

  Did you ever want any kids?

• 55:06Speaker 01

  I wanted three kids. Not just one, because

• 55:14Speaker 01

  I needed that one child to have somebody to play with. Oh, but then, my morbid brain, what if something happened to the one child? I need three. You see how my crazy, my Gemini brain?

• 55:26Keke Palmer?

  I love everything about this. Everything about your Gemini brain is giving life.

• 55:30Speaker 01

  My Gemini moon, my Gemini sun, my Gemini Mars. Landing.

• 55:38Keke Palmer?

  And then, you never, you just said, hey, [BLEEP]. You know, or do you want them now?

• 55:43Speaker 01

  Well, I have enough children in my life now that I get to love and send them home.

• 55:50Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah. And send home is good.

• 55:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I have, you know, quite a few nieces and nephews, great nieces and nephews, and godchildren.

• 56:02Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 56:02Speaker 01

  And I think, now, when I think about it, that's exactly where my energy needs to be, on those kids.

• 56:10Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. I know you say you don't feel like you have high visibility. I feel like visibility comes in seasons. And I know especially at me, when you think about all your accolades, the awards you've been given. There's tons of visibility. Everybody's talking and thinking about you. What was the moment, though? After that 15 years and that big breakthrough with the help, what was the first moment that you recognized it was different? That it was something that's different?

• 56:40Keke Palmer?

  Discover Pandora Talisman, a new collection designed to help you express every side of who you are. Because the most powerful statement you can make is being yourself. I'm a Virgo, capital V, which means I notice everything. I remember everything. And I have opinions about everything. But I keep most of them in a very organized mental filing cabinet. That's the sign. Analytical on the inside, polished on the outside, and deeply particular about what we put on our bodies. So when I tell you I found my zodiac symbol in the Pandora Talisman collection, and immediately thought, finally, somebody captured what it feels like to be this. I mean that. It's not just a cute charm, it's the whole ethos.

• 57:24Keke Palmer?

  Pandora Talisman understood the assignment because the whole collection is built on that idea. Personalized pieces, meaningful symbols, designs that reflect what you stand for and how you choose to show up. I've been styling mine as a conversation starter. Someone asks about the piece, and suddenly, we're talking about identity, about what it means to carry something on our body that represents who you actually are. That's not just accessories, that's communication. I've been layering mine with gold pieces on days I feel bold, or wearing it solo on a thin chain when I want something quiet that still says something loud. Pandora Talisman, a new language of self-expression, because every version of you deserves to be seen.

• 58:08Keke Palmer?

  Shop new styles in store or online at pandora.net. This episode is supported by FX's The Drop, a snowfall saga. Wanda and Leon are back, but this time, they're chasing a different kind of legacy. As West Coast rap begins to take over 90s Los Angeles, Wanda is betting on a new generation of artists ready to make a name for themselves in hip-hop. But in a city where every opportunity comes with a price, they'll have to decide what they're willing to risk to leave their mark. FX's The Drop, now streaming on Hulu. I cannot tell you how much makeup I have bought that looked right in the store and then betrayed me in natural light. The audacity.

• 58:52Keke Palmer?

  I'd get home, blend it out, step outside, and suddenly, I'm looking casket-ready. Two shades off, and not a single person said anything. Sephora fixed that for me. OK, they have the best brands all in one place with a range of shades, coverage levels, and finishes, so you're not just guessing and hoping for the best. Right now, I'm wearing my favorite Hourglass Vanish Airbrush Full Coverage Longwear Concealer for natural finish that's long-lasting. OK, it is my perfect match. Can't you tell? Get a close-up look. Plus, their beauty advisors and shade matching tools take the guesswork out entirely, in store or online. So no more settling, no more close enough.

• 59:37Keke Palmer?

  Visit Sephora to find your match.

• 59:43Speaker 01

  Well, I was at the grocery store.

• 59:47Speaker 01

  In the produce section. Right after The Help and I was.

• 59:52Speaker 01

  I was trying, I want to say I was thumping a melon. And this guy like, and I'm examining it, thumping. And this guy got so close to my face. And he said, eat my blank.

• 1:00:07Keke Palmer?

  No, S H I D.

• 1:00:09Speaker 01

  Uh huh. And I just looked at him, I was about to bop him over the head with his melon. But I forgot that he was actually saying a line to me and he was like, get it, get it? And I thought, this fool almost, I just almost, with a melon. And then I realized, oh, okay, okay. Okay, so. There is a public perception that you can, you know, cross boundaries and. People think that you are constantly.

• 1:00:42Keke Palmer?

  Thinking about your job.

• 1:00:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, or, you know, it had been months. Actually, it was probably a year and a half to two years later. So the last time I heard that.

• 1:00:55Keke Palmer?

  He just saw it though.

• 1:00:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, it was just like excitement. I'm like, honey, come here. Don't ever say that to anybody, especially not a woman.

• 1:01:03Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh.

• 1:01:05Speaker 01

  So you, you know, just making sure you have boundaries, but that was the point. And then I was in. Spain. Doing publicity for The Help. And I am an Auburn Tiger. And our greeting, our battle cry, whatever, is War Eagle.

• 1:01:24Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  I was in Spain. And I hear, War Eagle, Octavia. And I thought. What? War Eagle? You know, you know, just not, not, not.

• 1:01:37Keke Palmer?

  It was a reflex.

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, completely, so that's when I realized, okay, I might be swimming in a different boat right now.

• 1:01:43Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 1:01:44Speaker 01

  But to the extent that it is, it is always out there.

• 1:01:49Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:50Speaker 01

  I.

• 1:01:51Keke Palmer?

  I keep that at bay.

• 1:01:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:53Keke Palmer?

  I mean, well. After you won the Oscar, I know you said, you know, you kind of had this thought where it's like, okay, you know, I'm about to get all these scripts, we about to get all this stuff, I'm gonna be popping. And I know we hear this a lot, so I don't, I want to go a different area with it, but what would you say that you, that you learned like about the expectations or the ideas around what Oscars can give, you know, you when you win one?

• 1:02:17Speaker 01

  Well, Viola Davis, being just the salt of the earth that she is, she kind of prepared me for that. She told me well before we even started the campaign for, to open the film, let alone the Oscar campaign, she's like, this is gonna be a protracted amount of time. Do you know what job you have lined up next? And I'm like, well, we just closed this one. And she said, no, it's gonna be, it's gonna be nine months of your life. If you don't have your next job. You know, and I'm like, well, I don't have my next job. And.

• 1:02:54Keke Palmer?

  So real.

• 1:02:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know? So when, when. Snowpiercer came about in the fall.

• 1:03:03Keke Palmer?

  Oh, yes.

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  I booked Snowpiercer.

• 1:03:07Keke Palmer?

  That movie is so good.

• 1:03:08Speaker 01

  It's so crazy.

• 1:03:09Keke Palmer?

  It's so nuts, but it's good. But it had the people down there.

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  And, and.

• 1:03:17Speaker 01

  It was so crazy. I had so much fun working on that.

• 1:03:21Keke Palmer?

  I love creating of a world anyhow, sorry.

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  Yes, and director, I mean, I love.

• 1:03:26Keke Palmer?

  You've done such cool projects.

• 1:03:28Speaker 01

  I refuse to be pigeonholed.

• 1:03:30Keke Palmer?

  Such cool projects.

• 1:03:31Speaker 01

  I refuse to be pigeonholed, I refuse to be your idea of what I should be, your perception of me. I'm my perception of me and I am clay on a potter's wheel, continuing to figure that out. And, but, but it was never.

• 1:03:51Speaker 01

  It was never easy and, and one would think, one would think, you know, like all white girls, I mean, the minute they.

• 1:04:00Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  Book, they have 10 projects lined up and it's like, no. What do you have for me? We want you to play this maid, uh uh, we want you to play that maid, mm mm. We want you, no.

• 1:04:12Keke Palmer?

  We think she's a maid.

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm like, guys, do y'all know I can't even cook? Stop asking me to be somebody's maid. I played the best maid written and therefore I don't ever need to do it again.

• 1:04:25Keke Palmer?

  Right.

• 1:04:26Speaker 01

  So don't knock on the door.

• 1:04:28Keke Palmer?

  Oh.

• 1:04:28Speaker 01

  If it is a M A I D. If it's an M A D E, maid.

• 1:04:35Speaker 01

  Like, well, then let's talk about it. But it was Viola totally being honest and, and saying, you, you, you need to start thinking about your next job.

• 1:04:48Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:49Speaker 01

  And then what sustained that for me.

• 1:04:54Speaker 01

  After like Fruitvale Station, I got Fruitvale Station right.

• 1:04:59Keke Palmer?

  Classic.

• 1:04:59Speaker 01

  After I won the Oscar. And, and there were a few, few roles that came between, I thought. I'm gonna need to start producing because I could see this well drying up. There aren't a lot of opportunities. And. The things that I gravitate towards are usually the things that, that we find.

• 1:05:21Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's the thing, our industry is constantly ever changing.

• 1:05:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, ever changing.

• 1:05:25Keke Palmer?

  It really is, it really is. And I love the solution. Even though it's again, you know, we can sit and we can talk about what, you know, we can compare of what should happen, you know, that happens for others, but I love that the reality is. I'm forward moving.

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:40Keke Palmer?

  This isn't gonna, I have no, I'm not gonna waste my time to, you know, it was kind of similar to what I was talking with Whoopi about is like, I would love to snap my fingers and change everything overnight. I know the first five things I would change, but until those things are gonna change, I'm gonna still be finding the solutions for myself and giving myself autonomy in a process that feels as if I shouldn't have any.

• 1:05:59Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:06:00Keke Palmer?

  I really love that and you've been great doing that.

• 1:06:03Speaker 01

  Well, thank you, and, and the other thing is, if I had magical powers, it wouldn't be to change anything in my life. It would be to change the course of the world, all of the upheaval and strife and try to force people to be better people. Not my journey in life, because everything that has happened to me, whether good or bad, has shaped me into the person that I am. And, and I feel that I can speak from a place of knowledge because it has happened to me. So I think now I'm Whoopi to a lot of young people and it's like, wow, time is really, really.

• 1:06:47Speaker 01

  Sped up, well, you're not there yet, honey, you'll be Whoopi in 20 years.

• 1:06:53Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh, I would love to join that.

• 1:06:57Speaker 01

  You'll be Whoopi in 20 years.

• 1:06:58Keke Palmer?

  Hello, I need to figure out my Whoopi thing, how does Whoopi?

• 1:07:01Speaker 01

  Hey. Hey.

• 1:07:04Keke Palmer?

  Welcome to the view.

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  You're welcome to the view.

• 1:07:07Keke Palmer?

  I gotta figure out the Whoopi. Oh my gosh, I just love her so bad.

• 1:07:11Speaker 01

  Yes, I love her.

• 1:07:12Keke Palmer?

  Oh my gosh, okay, so this is what's cool to me when I was getting ready to speak to you was after The Help. You know, you had made, you did the help, you had gotten the Oscar, people clearly knew your talent was insane, but. I don't know, I guess you were talking with Jessica Chastain?

• 1:07:27Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:07:27Keke Palmer?

  And you, and somehow it came up that you guys were getting paid differently.

• 1:07:31Speaker 01

  So Jessica, also salt of the earth.

• 1:07:37Speaker 01

  Came to me with a project that she wanted to do, a Christmas project.

• 1:07:40Keke Palmer?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:41Speaker 01

  And she, again, a person who does, she's a doer, she's a producer.

• 1:07:45Keke Palmer?

  Yes.

• 1:07:46Speaker 01

  And she said, I want us to do it together, I mean, wouldn't it be great? I said, yes, and me being the talker that I am, remember talking, we'll sink ships.

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  I'm about to sink this ship.

• 1:07:58Keke Palmer?

  Right.

• 1:07:59Speaker 01

  So I said, yeah, Jessica, yeah, all that's great, that, the idea sounds great, but you're gonna have to pay me.

• 1:08:05Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:06Speaker 01

  And she said, of course I'm gonna pay, I said, no, no, people always say, of course. And then they only have, when they go to white actors, they have dollars. And by the time they get to the black actors, they have cents. So I need to know, do you have some dollars?

• 1:08:20Keke Palmer?

  This is so real.

• 1:08:21Speaker 01

  And she said, Octavia, yes. And so I gave her the chronology of my pay.

• 1:08:28Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:29Speaker 01

  And she sat quietly on the phone.

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  And she said, "Oh, my God." "You and I..." "No, no, but, but you, you know what I mean?" She was like, "I got a dime for the help. I got 13 cents." You know, like, it was literally, literally...

• 1:08:47Keke Palmer?

  I know exactly what you're talking about. Because somebody tried to say some [BLEEP]. I don't want to interrupt.

• 1:08:51Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:08:51Keke Palmer?

  But somebody had said something to me, and I literally told him, I said, "It's hard sometimes to know what you're missing."

• 1:08:56Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:08:57Keke Palmer?

  If you don't...

• 1:08:58Speaker 01

  If you don't know.

• 1:08:58Keke Palmer?

  It's gonna take a sister that's a sister...

• 1:09:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:01Keke Palmer?

  To be like...

• 1:09:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:04Keke Palmer?

  Otherwise, it's like, I'm happy in comparison to where my personal growth is.

• 1:09:08Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:09:09Keke Palmer?

  So when she looked at that, at your paper, she said, "Oh, [BLEEP] girl."

• 1:09:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. When I told her...

• 1:09:14Keke Palmer?

  You in trouble.

• 1:09:16Speaker 01

  Molly, you in trouble, girl. So, so, and, and so, my team always, they know when someone comes to me, if it's not a labor of love, my labor of love, my labor of love, I'll do for a dime. I'm not doing your labor of love for a dime. I'm not doing your labor of love for a penny. I'm not doing your labor of love for deferment. You know what I mean?

• 1:09:38Keke Palmer?

  Okay.

• 1:09:39Speaker 01

  You have to come at me the right way. And, and this is how you know if they truly value you. And this is for every inquiring mind out there. This is how you know if they truly value you. If they come to you and say,

• 1:09:56Speaker 01

  "It's a $10 million budget. Nobody's making any money." I said, "You know what? It's a great script. I understand that. Let's talk back end." Back end.

• 1:10:07Speaker 01

  Back end. That imaginary money that you haven't made.

• 1:10:13Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:13Speaker 01

  See, I'm peeping that, you're peeping that you're gonna make that money. And then, in success, I want my, not dime, I want my dollar. And if you can't give me... You want me to sign on for pennies in the front, but won't give me any of the imaginary money in the back? We can't be friends, honey.

• 1:10:35Keke Palmer?

  The first person to introduce me to the imaginary money in the back paid me pretty good for my, for my little kid age. I was 11 or 12 years old. Introduced me to the imaginary money, got major imaginary money, was Tyler Perry.

• 1:10:48Speaker 01

  You hear me? That was the other reason I worked in, in casting office, 'cause I learned to read those contracts. The imaginary money is where you get rich.

• 1:10:59Keke Palmer?

  Imaginary. That is so real.

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  So if they're not willing to get... They want you to do a small-budget film. And they don't want to cut you in on the imaginary money.

• 1:11:12Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:13Speaker 01

  They are no friends of yours.

• 1:11:15Keke Palmer?

  Especially the damn animations.

• 1:11:16Speaker 01

  And this is what I say to them. "Thank them, honey. Thank them. Thank them for thinking of me." When you get to the "thank you" part,

• 1:11:24Speaker 01

  we never say things mean. It's, "Thank them. Thank them." And my, my, my lawyer, "Oh, God, she's saying 'thank you.'" I'm like, "Thank them."

• 1:11:31Keke Palmer?

  It's so real.

• 1:11:32Speaker 01

  And, and, and the other people on the other end are like, "She said 'thank you,' and they're like, 'That's not a good thing.'"

• 1:11:37Keke Palmer?

  She's done with you.

• 1:11:38Speaker 01

  She's done.

• 1:11:39Keke Palmer?

  You won't be getting the response.

• 1:11:41Speaker 01

  That is, boo-boo.

• 1:11:44Keke Palmer?

  That is so real.

• 1:11:46Speaker 01

  It is.

• 1:11:46Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. I mean, I, I really do, yeah.

• 1:11:48Speaker 01

  It doesn't, yeah, it doesn't mean that I won't do...

• 1:11:50Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:51Speaker 01

  But you need to be thinking about me when you're thinking about you.

• 1:11:55Keke Palmer?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:11:56Speaker 01

  You're thinking about what you're gonna get in success, and you're telling me you love me and all these things.

• 1:12:01Keke Palmer?

  The worst part about that is when they turn into a cult classic.

• 1:12:04Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. You hear me?

• 1:12:09Keke Palmer?

  No back end.

• 1:12:10Speaker 01

  No back end?

• 1:12:11Keke Palmer?

  No front end.

• 1:12:12Speaker 01

  No front end? But you [BLEEP], you got, you got the, the kickball.

• 1:12:16Keke Palmer?

  We got Heathers. But I'm a cheerleader.

• 1:12:19Speaker 01

  Why don't we make our own? We'll do our own, ma. I'm like, "Uh-uh. I made that ma."

• 1:12:25Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh. Speaking of ma, we're gonna get to this game.

• 1:12:28Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:12:28Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh, you are such a ball, girl. I live for you.

• 1:12:32Speaker 01

  I live for you.

• 1:12:33Keke Palmer?

  So, I have, you know, we all love ma. That Bob has the most iconic... I mean, it, it, it, we live for you. You know what I mean? It's Regina, Regina Hall even stole it in a scary movie.

• 1:12:42Speaker 01

  I am so mad at Regina for stealing ma.

• 1:12:45Keke Palmer?

  She's so funny. Okay, so, we're gonna play this game, okay? And you're gonna tell me if you would let it slide or if you were bringing the ma Bob out.

• 1:12:54Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:12:54Keke Palmer?

  Okay? So, I'm gonna play with you. I'll get, I'll give some, some as well.

• 1:12:58Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:12:58Keke Palmer?

  Um, so it's, would you, will ma let it slide? Or would the Bob come out?

• 1:13:01Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:13:02Keke Palmer?

  So the first one is, your friend dates your ex.

• 1:13:05Speaker 01

  Bob.

• 1:13:07Speaker 01

  Bob with an ex.

• 1:13:13Keke Palmer?

  I'm gonna have to agree with you. 'Cause what the hell you mean you date?

• 1:13:15Speaker 01

  What, I mean, what, have you been thinking this this whole time?

• 1:13:18Keke Palmer?

  Girl, what's something going on this whole time? Okay, someone eat your leftovers without asking.

• 1:13:27Speaker 01

  I'll let it slide, but I'd be mad as hell to... On a second try, it would be ma, the Bob.

• 1:13:35Keke Palmer?

  Okay. Your friend tells everybody a secret you told her.

• 1:13:41Speaker 01

  Well, sometimes I've done that.

• 1:13:44Keke Palmer?

  I've been a friend.

• 1:13:45Speaker 01

  But, okay, wait, wait. If I told you not to tell?

• 1:13:48Keke Palmer?

  That is so true.

• 1:13:49Speaker 01

  It is ma. The Bob is coming out. If I didn't tell you not to tell, it's on me. Because you need to say, you, this doesn't leave us.

• 1:13:58Keke Palmer?

  We didn't know. And by the way, the person I told, they're really trustworthy.

• 1:14:01Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:14:02Keke Palmer?

  It's always that.

• 1:14:03Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:14:03Keke Palmer?

  Okay. Someone borrows your wig and doesn't give it back.

• 1:14:07Speaker 01

  Ah, Regina, Regina Hall.

• 1:14:14Speaker 01

  I'm coming for you, Regina.

• 1:14:16Keke Palmer?

  Regina. That lady is so funny.

• 1:14:18Speaker 01

  Um, I... See, my sister does this all the time. And so, I haven't ma'd her yet. So, I think I would have to let it slide. 'Cause, you know, once it leaves your head, it will never see the light of day on your head again.

• 1:14:34Keke Palmer?

  Okay. A date ghosts you and texts you three months later.

• 1:14:41Speaker 01

  See, there's a part of me that wants to...

• 1:14:44Speaker 01

  Wants to, wants to stalk him.

• 1:14:47Speaker 01

  Wants to stalk him. Play games.

• 1:14:50Keke Palmer?

  Just see... Yo, that Gemini is fierce. That's what makes Gemini so fun. 'Cause I would be right in that passenger seat.

• 1:14:58Speaker 01

  There's a part of me that's like, "You ghosted me." I might, you might see elements of this in ma too.

• 1:15:09Speaker 01

  I'm joking. I'm joking.

• 1:15:11Keke Palmer?

  The plot, we got the whole plot. Okay, here we go. Someone takes the aisle seat when you booked it.

• 1:15:18Speaker 01

  Sweetie, there is no...

• 1:15:21Speaker 01

  There's, there's just, um...

• 1:15:26Speaker 01

  I don't even have to put the Bob on. These eyeballs will be all you need. As I'm checking.

• 1:15:33Keke Palmer?

  'Cause what are you doing in my seat?

• 1:15:36Speaker 01

  'Cause this is me. Making a solid production.

• 1:15:39Keke Palmer?

  Oh, my gosh. One time, I was on a flight, and I was trying to get me and my friend to sit next to each other.

• 1:15:45Keke Palmer?

  My homegirl, she was, it was a female friend. And so, you know, the person, we, we were sitting there, and we're waiting for them to approach. You know what I'm saying? And they were like, "Hey, would you mind?" And they were like, and, and she was like, was like, "This is my wife." You know what I mean? Like, they're like, you know, "This is my wife." And then they said, "This is my wife." Like, "Oh, [BLEEP]."

• 1:16:04Speaker 01

  Got you with...

• 1:16:05Keke Palmer?

  Damn.

• 1:16:06Speaker 01

  Got you with the wife.

• 1:16:07Keke Palmer?

  I guess y'all got it, then.

• 1:16:09Speaker 01

  But you know what? Um, it's always easier if you ask the flight attendant.

• 1:16:15Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:15Speaker 01

  If everything is booked up. And, and if the person sitting next to you, like, you know, if there's another seat, if they're gonna be full, and then you kinda do your recon, and you can say, "I, I realize you guys wanna fly together, but my friend is sitting in D, and she, she doesn't fly well. Do, do, they, they said, you know, E is available. Uh, do you mind? Do you mind?" And some people will.

• 1:16:41Keke Palmer?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:42Speaker 01

  But I...

• 1:16:43Keke Palmer?

  Unless they together.

• 1:16:45Speaker 01

  Well, my thing is, don't y'all see each other every day?

• 1:16:49Speaker 01

  Don't you wanna break?

• 1:16:50Keke Palmer?

  Don't you need, I think you need this time apart.

• 1:16:52Speaker 01

  Don't you need this time apart?

• 1:16:53Keke Palmer?

  Too much togetherness will breathe the...

• 1:16:55Speaker 01

  Too much togetherness will bring a relationship down.

• 1:16:59Keke Palmer?

  That's a scene in the movie. Literally, trying to get the seat, that whole thing, jokes write themselves.

• 1:17:06Speaker 01

  They do. With funny people.

• 1:17:08Keke Palmer?

  Back at you. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

• 1:17:11Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me.

• 1:17:12Keke Palmer?

  It was so, just a, a ball, truly.

• 1:17:13Speaker 01

  So much. I feel like I've known you, I actually have, known you your whole life.

• 1:17:18Keke Palmer?

  No, but the energy is that. I was so happy to sit up here and just get into it with you. I really admire you.

• 1:17:24Speaker 01

  I admire you too, honey. And thank you for all that you do, and your voice is very needed in our community.

• 1:17:30Keke Palmer?

  Thank you so much. Thank you.

• 1:17:36Keke Palmer?

  This conversation is a reminder that being seen can change your life. But knowing your own worth can change someone else's. Octavia built a career and a life on her own terms. And once she had the power to open doors, she made sure she wasn't the only one walking through them. So if you take anything from this episode, let it be this. Define success for yourself. Know your worth. And when you get the power to make a difference, use it to help somebody else know theirs. And baby, this is Keke Palmer.