Pod Insights Baby, this is Keke Palmer Why Tracee Ellis Ross Stopped Waiting to Be Chosen About this episode Tracee Ellis Ross joins Keke for an unforgettable conversation about building a life on your own terms. She talks about making her Broadway debut in Every Brilliant Thing, growing up with her mom, Diana Ross, and childhood encounters with icons like Marvin Gaye and Lucille Ball. And Tracee has the stories, from confidently correcting Michael Jackson on his own lyrics to memories from the set of Girlfriends and some truly terrible dates. Then they play “Acting Casual,” a dating game of awkward flirting.
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Transcript 14,080 words · 2 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Keke Palmer? Today, I'm sitting down with the one and only Tracee Ellis Ross. You know her from Girlfriends, Blackish, Pattern Beauty, her iconic fashion, and now her Broadway debut in every brilliant thing. But beyond all of those accomplishments, Tracy has become part of a much bigger conversation about what it means to build a full life on your own terms. Okay, we are talking legacy, love, friendship, family, beauty, joy, solo travel, and the freedom that comes from trusting yourself instead of someone else's timeline. She is one of my favorite humans on the planet, no lie. Let's get into it, because baby, this is Keke Palmer, and this is Tracee Ellis Ross.
1:16 Keke Palmer? Tracy!
1:17 Speaker 01 My girl!
1:21 Keke Palmer? You look fabulous.
1:22 Speaker 01 Oh my God, you look fabulous.
1:22 Keke Palmer? The fashion is always giving everything it needs to give. Hi! Come on, pull back.
1:26 Speaker 01 Okay, hold on a second. Hi, legs.
1:27 Keke Palmer? Okay.
1:28 Speaker 01 Hi, legs.
1:29 Keke Palmer? I brought these legs out for you.
1:30 Speaker 01 Thanks, I'm so glad you brought them.
1:32 Keke Palmer? Somebody's gotta have them, Kiki. You're back in New York in your city.
1:36 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah, girl.
1:36 Keke Palmer? Wait a minute, what's in your hands?
1:37 Speaker 01 It's a gift for you. Uh, I brought you, I brought you a little something. You are just too classy. I brought you a little something.
1:44 Keke Palmer? My baby girl!
1:46 Speaker 01 Yes, but let me just move my ponytail.
1:48 Keke Palmer? Kiki, experience freedom and joy. I just truly adore you.
1:54 Speaker 01 Ah, right back down here.
1:55 Keke Palmer? You know that it gets to a point where it's like, I hope I don't fan out too much with her, so she can still be my friend.
2:01 Speaker 01 Oh my God, we're, yeah, no, you're good, girl.
2:04 Keke Palmer? You're my favorite. I absolutely adore and love this packaging. Oh my gosh, these cards. So this is a QR code that I get to visit somewhere.
2:15 Keke Palmer? Love the technology that's attached to this.
2:17 Speaker 01 Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So I made two frames. I made the Freedom Frame, uh, which is those. And then I also made the Truth Frame. May you experience freedom.
2:30 Keke Palmer? I'm not letting him sit on my nose just so I don't mess up my makeup.
2:32 Speaker 01 You don't want to mess up your makeup. But it's fierce. You can block the haters.
2:36 Keke Palmer? Baby.
2:37 Speaker 01 You can block the haters.
2:38 Keke Palmer? Can I just tell you that I'm really happy that I get to be in this product era of Tracey Ellis Ross?
2:42 Speaker 01 Oh my God.
2:43 Keke Palmer? I'm so happy for getting every product. First of all, they're top of the line. You know, pattern, love and adore what you've been able to accomplish with that company. From the great product it is, but also as a businesswoman. I talked, we talked about that over dinner. It's not easy. Anybody who starts something would know that. And so now that we're getting glasses.
3:02 Speaker 01 It took 10 years for the love of God. Yeah. I mean, you know, it all started actually with the JCPenney clothes that I did.
3:08 Keke Palmer? Okay.
3:09 Speaker 01 It gave me the, well, we can talk about that, but it was the.
3:13 Keke Palmer? But you just saw that it could be.
3:14 Speaker 01 It was the beginning and I always wanted to do the hair. I've been trying to do that forever, but when the JCPenney thing actually happened, one of my thoughts was, could I make enough money here to put it towards the dream that I actually want to be doing?
3:27 Keke Palmer? Yes. Cause it's an investment.
3:29 Speaker 01 It's an investment. It's a journey. It's like, and it's a trial and error. It's like learning something new. But anyway, I jumped in, but yes. Little gift for you so you can block the haters.
3:39 Keke Palmer? I love my gift, girl. I can't wait to be outside.
3:42 Speaker 01 Just outside, just like, ooh, who you, if you're looking at me, I'm not looking at you.
3:45 Keke Palmer? Yes. Okay, we'll start when I pretty sure pull up.
3:48 Speaker 01 Okay, do it.
3:49 Keke Palmer? Now, it's so funny because you kind of created your own name. I mean, your dad is Ellis Silverstein.
3:55 Speaker 01 Okay.
3:55 Keke Palmer? Obviously your mom is Ross.
3:57 Speaker 01 Do you want to know the story?
3:58 Keke Palmer? Please give me the story.
3:59 Speaker 01 Cause it's so, when I explain it, you're like, oh, I see. So I was born Tracey Joy Silverstein. My middle name is Joy. That's what's on my birth certificate. And then Tracy Joy Ross Silverstein became the name that I had all through grade school. So I was TJRS.
4:17 Keke Palmer? Okay.
4:18 Speaker 01 And I don't know where, what, why, I don't know what that was. I don't know, I don't know. And then we lost Silverstein because my dad, this is so, it's so ridiculous. My dad and my dad is Robert Ellis Silverstein, but he goes by Bob Ellis. And him and his wife, my stepmom are Bob and Susan Ellis. So we dropped Silverstein because
4:39 Keke Palmer? Why no Silverstein? I love Silverstein.
4:41 Speaker 01 I love Silverstein too. I love Silverstein.
4:43 Keke Palmer? They just wanted it out of there.
4:43 Speaker 01 S I L B R S T I N. You know what I mean? Okay, my, my, my, my family, my, my family was probably silversmiths back in the day when they came through Ellis I, you know what I mean? However, um, we all dropped Silverstein. I became Tracy Joy Ross. And then, here's the key. When I joined SAG, there, I was, you know, you don't, nobody uses their middle name, you're Tracy Ross. And when I joined SAG, there was another Tracy Ross. Remember Tracy, no, you're too young. Tracy Ross from Star Search.
5:11 Keke Palmer? Oh, wow. I remember Star Search, though. I tried to get up on there.
5:15 Speaker 01 Was the, oh.
5:16 Keke Palmer? It led me through.
5:17 Speaker 01 Well, you know what, Kiki? You did fine. I think, I think we're, I think we're okay. We can let go of that resentment.
5:22 Keke Palmer? Literally, I'm still holding on to it.
5:24 Speaker 01 No, no, we can, we can drop that grudge, okay? You did it. All right? Okay, anyway, so, uh, there was another Tracy Ross. And so I could put Joy in my name and be Tracy Joy Ross. But I really wanted, when my name hit the screen, for everyone to know that I was not just my mom's daughter, but also my dad's daughter. And so I am Tracee Ellis Ross, so that every time I'm up there, Bob Ellis knows that's my kid. And Diana Ross knows that's also my kid.
5:52 Keke Palmer? And it's like she's proud of us both.
5:54 Speaker 01 There you go.
5:55 Keke Palmer? Which is just so kick ass. My son, I always thought about adding like Palmer to it, but if he wanted to, I would, I mean, if he did like a situation like what you did, I would be just so thrilled.
6:04 Speaker 01 It just, I don't know, it just felt, yeah, it felt right.
6:06 Keke Palmer? It's the sweetest.
6:07 Speaker 01 And I also, when I was choosing names, which is a really fun thing to do, I was like, Tracee Ellis Ross sounds important.
6:14 Keke Palmer? It really does.
6:15 Speaker 01 It ju, it sounds like I've, like gravitas.
6:17 Keke Palmer? It, it's like Tracee Ellis Ross.
6:19 Speaker 01 It's Tracee Ellis Ross. It's a double E, a double L, a double S.
6:27 Keke Palmer? You're crazy. I love that. Oh my gosh, I love that. Okay, boom, name down.
6:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:32 Keke Palmer? Now, your Zodiac sign.
6:34 Speaker 01 Girl, guess, try and guess.
6:36 Keke Palmer? You're so much fun. It's like you have to have some Sag in there. There has to be.
6:40 Speaker 01 Well, so I watch your show. I listen to your pod. I pod with you, Kix. So, I
6:49 Keke Palmer? You did it all.
6:50 Speaker 01 I knew this question was coming, so I asked our dear friend Claude.
6:53 Keke Palmer? Oh my gosh, Claude broke it down for you. Come on, Anthropic.
6:56 Speaker 01 But Claude told me, and I've saved it into my notes.
6:59 Keke Palmer? I'm so sorry.
7:00 Speaker 01 And, and by the way, the subject of the note is Kiki.
7:05 Keke Palmer? I love that people know this about me.
7:06 Speaker 01 Yeah, so, okay, so Scorpio sun.
7:09 Keke Palmer? Okay, fabulous.
7:10 Speaker 01 Just duh.
7:10 Keke Palmer? Fabulous.
7:11 Speaker 01 And I'm an October Scorpio, so it's the real deal. Uh, you know what I mean? I, I say that.
7:15 Keke Palmer? She says, "So it's the real deal."
7:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, because I, I think those November Scorpios are different. Are my breasts showing? No.
7:21 Keke Palmer? No.
7:22 Speaker 01 So, um.
7:23 Keke Palmer? I was disappointed.
7:25 Speaker 01 I do have cute boobs. Okay. I'm crazy. Um, the core self, uh, do you want me, no, we don't need to read it.
7:31 Keke Palmer? You can tell me just the top and then we can get into what you feel about it.
7:34 Speaker 01 You'll tell me. Okay, Scorpio sun, Leo moon.
7:37 Keke Palmer? Leo moon. Fill that immediately.
7:39 Speaker 01 Really? What would that mean? What would that mean?
7:42 Keke Palmer? Very sweet, vulnerable, loving.
7:45 Speaker 01 Oh.
7:45 Keke Palmer? But also, don't play with me. You don't let nobody play with you.
7:49 Speaker 01 Correct.
7:49 Keke Palmer? Yeah, no, I know that personally with you. You, please.
7:53 Speaker 01 No.
7:54 Keke Palmer? You know, but so loving. You guys are so, like, give the, give the ends of the world.
7:58 Speaker 01 I love this.
7:59 Keke Palmer? You know, I love that about the Leo.
8:00 Speaker 01 Uh, Taurus rising?
8:02 Keke Palmer? Taurus rising. That matches too.
8:03 Speaker 01 What would that mean?
8:04 Keke Palmer? Well, every Taurus I know is really, really attractive, so that checks out. They're so cute. See, I don't know how they got blessed with the cute factor. And then also stubborn. I don't know about that with you. Do you feel that you're stubborn?
8:15 Speaker 01 No, I'm not stubborn.
8:15 Keke Palmer? Yeah, yeah, that, that's like.
8:16 Speaker 01 The Taurus's I know are stubborn.
8:18 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
8:19 Speaker 01 I am not stubborn.
8:20 Keke Palmer? You feel Scorpio heavy.
8:21 Speaker 01 I am Scorpio heavy. I don't know a lot about signs. Um, I dated one Scorpio man and I was just like, I don't want to date myself.
8:30 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
8:31 Speaker 01 I'm not looking for that. I'm, I'm enough. I'm a lot.
8:34 Keke Palmer? I do not want to date no Virgo man. That is the last thing I would do.
8:38 Speaker 01 Who, I really, I like the Pisces, but I felt like I was gonna run them over.
8:42 Keke Palmer? Oh, they're so sweet.
8:43 Speaker 01 It was so sweet.
8:44 Keke Palmer? Cancers, vroom, vroom.
8:45 Speaker 01 Vroom, vroom.
8:46 Keke Palmer? Love them down, though.
8:47 Speaker 01 I've, yeah, okay.
8:48 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
8:49 Speaker 01 Scorpio, what am I like? I, I felt like when I read this, can I read this? Cause I thought this, I thought this was good.
8:54 Keke Palmer? Cause it's probably like very independent.
8:55 Speaker 01 It says, "The core self, this is your fundamental drive, intense, private, all or nothing. Scorpios associated with depth over surface. You're drawn to what's hidden." That is correct. I'm drawn to what's hidden. You don't do small talk easily. Correct. And when you commit to something or someone, it's total.
9:16 Keke Palmer? Whoa.
9:17 Speaker 01 There's a strong will here and a knack of seeing through people. The shadow side is a tendency towards control. Yeah. I've done a lot of work on that, though. Yes, that's correct. I've done, I've done my work, my homework. Um, uh, toward control, brooding or holding grudges. But no, I, I'm not a...
9:35 Keke Palmer? I've had to do some work. I'm currently still doing some work on that grudge holding. I've, I've always had a little bit of that. When I was younger, I used to always just, yeah, just, you know, hold on. Like I just brought up star search, like star, why would I do that?
9:47 Speaker 01 I mean, that's interesting. I, I was trying to think if I've done work on that or this, I just naturally didn't have that. But I understand that. I really understand it.
9:54 Keke Palmer? I've always felt like Scorpios and Virgos were like twins. But Scorpios were not so passive. Where sometimes Virgos can, we can try to just so hard to hold it in and just try to be so like, no big deal. You guys expose it. And I think it's better that you like, get it out, you say it, you're like, you know what I mean?
10:15 Speaker 01 That is very... But it's also the way my family is. Like we, it's like you say it and then it's done. Like I am, I don't know, with my siblings, I can go from zero to 150 in a fight in two seconds. And then five minutes later, what are we doing for dinner?
10:28 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
10:29 Speaker 01 Who?
10:29 Keke Palmer? Because you got it, because you, you didn't hold it in and play around. That's a good quality. I love that about every Scorpio I know.
10:36 Speaker 01 I think the reason I don't hold grudges, though, is because I don't have a great memory. I'm one of those people who will be like in the middle of hugging someone and be like, I think I'm mad at them. Why? I don't remember. Oh, well, hi. Like, I just, it's not, it does.
10:51 Keke Palmer? That's when you know you're too happy and good in life. Like, what do I have time to hold on to this for?
10:55 Speaker 01 I feel like it's a memory issue. Personally. I mean, I like that take on it, Kiki.
11:01 Keke Palmer? Hilarious.
11:02 Speaker 01 I don't know, your posture is so good.
11:04 Keke Palmer? Oh, my gosh, thank you. I feel like I have to in this dress because it's so, you know what I mean?
11:07 Speaker 01 OK, I got you.
11:08 Keke Palmer? I don't want to be like, boop-boop.
11:09 Speaker 01 Yeah, I know, well, either one of us could be boop-boop, but it'll be a great episode. Do you know what I mean? It'll just be boop and a boop.
11:15 Keke Palmer? Our parents have the same birthday. My only reason why I know is because, obviously, your mother's Diana Ross and my dad has always been obsessed with her. He's like, you know, I got the same birthday as Diana Ross. You know, me and Diana Ross, she had the same birthday. So I always think about that. My dad, March 26th, right?
11:28 Speaker 01 Oh, yes.
11:28 Keke Palmer? Yeah, my dad always, he let me know, I knew it all my life. Very random, but I always knew it. What is your love language?
11:35 Speaker 01 Do you know, I don't know.
11:37 Keke Palmer? Yeah, you never did one of the little tests?
11:38 Speaker 01 I did, and...
11:39 Keke Palmer? You didn't agree?
11:40 Speaker 01 No, no, no, I don't remember.
11:43 Speaker 01 Which, by the way, is why I had to do this. Do you know how many times I've had more horoscopes done?
11:47 Keke Palmer? I wonder what it is.
11:48 Speaker 01 And I just, I remember things that feel important to me.
11:53 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
11:53 Speaker 01 So I have an impeccable memory with certain things and with things that sort of don't, I don't know, don't hold a place in my heart.
12:01 Keke Palmer? How does it work with, like, your lines and stuff?
12:02 Speaker 01 Very easy.
12:04 Keke Palmer? Right.
12:04 Speaker 01 Because I can remember stories. I remember stories. Short-term memory is good, like, I'm black as you could have given me a script that day and we were fine. But like this, for every brilliant thing, it's different, it's long-term memory.
12:18 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
12:19 Speaker 01 So for me, it's about inhabiting story.
12:21 Keke Palmer? Yes.
12:22 Speaker 01 And understanding, because, you know, you could tell me a story about your life and spend two hours telling me with detail.
12:27 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
12:28 Speaker 01 And it wouldn't be like, oh, I can't remember.
12:29 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
12:30 Speaker 01 For me, it's the same thing, and so what I try and do is discover who this person's, who this person is, that part of me that is that person, and learn the story.
12:39 Keke Palmer? I really relate to that because, once you know that, there's only so many places it can go for that archetype in this world, in this situation.
12:46 Speaker 01 And then you know who they are. And no matter what the sort of scenario is, you understand it.
12:51 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
12:51 Speaker 01 And you've placed yourself in their experience.
12:55 Keke Palmer? And have you guys already start, you haven't started? And even the rehearsals for every brilliant thing.
12:59 Speaker 01 No, I'm in the studying process.
13:01 Keke Palmer? You're in the studying process. Well, let you know this is the project you wanted to do. I know we'll get into it, but I just, since we brought it up now, what, what made you say, okay, you know what, I'll do that?
13:08 Speaker 01 Um, for me, always, it's about the material.
13:11 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
13:12 Speaker 01 And so there's, since I was early and young as an actor, whenever I'm reading something and I start without realizing it, reading it out loud.
13:21 Keke Palmer? Yes. Oh, my gosh. I know what you mean with that because like, I really want to be this girl.
13:25 Speaker 01 I, it's fascinating.
13:26 Keke Palmer? Now, now I want to be this girl.
13:27 Speaker 01 And then I want to keep reading because I want to be like.
13:29 Keke Palmer? Feel you on that.
13:30 Speaker 01 Right?
13:31 Keke Palmer? When I start feeling like you want to start trying out the voice. You want to try her out for size.
13:35 Speaker 01 So that's the first thing that leans in.
13:37 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
13:38 Speaker 01 Um, which is like, I love being an artist in that way.
13:41 Keke Palmer? I know.
13:42 Speaker 01 Oh, my God, get me in there. So that's so fun, right? The second thing is, and you and I both have the same thing where there's a sense of abandon and freedom that, I was trying to explain that to somebody. What I do allows me to feel absolute freedom regularly.
14:02 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
14:02 Speaker 01 It's extraordinary.
14:03 Keke Palmer? It is extraordinary.
14:04 Speaker 01 It's an extraordinary thing.
14:05 Keke Palmer? Experience.
14:06 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's really magical.
14:07 Keke Palmer? Be trapped in one idea of anything.
14:08 Speaker 01 It's amazing and it gives you that opportunity to always think of how other people would think of that and, and then, because no one thinks they're a bad person. No one thinks they're stupid. No one thinks they're crazy. So it's actually people who aren't, are crazy, don't think they're crazy.
14:25 Keke Palmer? They know exactly why, how they got there.
14:27 Speaker 01 Exactly. And so that's really fun. So the first is the voice. Then, um, at this point in my career, the fun part is sort of going past that. Um, who is this person in this world? What is this world? What is the actual story? And then who are the players? Who are the people involved?
14:44 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
14:44 Speaker 01 What about this feels like it moves, um, what I want in life forward?
14:49 Keke Palmer? And this show is all just you.
14:51 Speaker 01 Yes, ma'am.
14:52 Keke Palmer? So this is very. Girl, that's like, you know.
14:56 Speaker 01 Kiki, it's my dream.
14:58 Keke Palmer? Yes. Kiki, put me on the stage.
14:59 Speaker 01 Scorpio.
15:00 Keke Palmer? Kiki.
15:01 Speaker 01 Kiki, everyone's like, oh, my God, are you scared? It's just you. I'm like, no, it's just me.
15:05 Keke Palmer? You're like, it's just me.
15:05 Speaker 01 I don't have to share with anybody. No, what I feel about it is two things. I'm screaming.
15:13 Keke Palmer? That is so scorpion, by the way.
15:14 Speaker 01 Number one, um, my favorite thing in life is connecting with people.
15:20 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
15:20 Speaker 01 Um, even when I do speaking engagements, I love it when the house lights are up.
15:24 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
15:24 Speaker 01 There's nothing better to me than telling a story, but to someone.
15:31 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
15:31 Speaker 01 And so the way this piece is set up, from the moment I read it, I was just like, oh my God. It's just, I'm telling a story. It's a story that exists. It is not my story. The story is strung together by a list of everything brilliant worth living for. From the smallest to the biggest to, uh, kazoo's to, you know what I mean? Just like the most delicious thing. So that perspective for me felt beautiful. But it is told with the house lights up in participation with the audience. You are in it together. So, um, there's a little bit of improv because a few people from the audience,
16:14 Speaker 01 uh, play certain roles in the story that I'm telling. Um, and I'm the host, for lack of a better word, in the room. And I get to be in this exchange and the material is so buoyant. I was so sweet. My mom said, what do you mean by that?
16:33 Keke Palmer? Right. I thought the same thing. Thanks. That's your mama ass. I was like buoyant. I'll be writing it down later.
16:40 Speaker 01 My, my mom was like, what is this language you're speaking? What does this mean, my dear daughter? And I said, oh, well, I said, imagine this, mom. Imagine not a balloon that feels airy, but a ball on the pool that never will sink.
16:58 Keke Palmer? Hmm.
16:59 Speaker 01 But yet it can fly and there's a lightness to it. So it is a, it is a piece about mental health. It is about suicide and depression, but it is one of the most life-affirming, beautiful pieces of material I've ever read, and it's buoyant. It is, um, filled with all of the humanity that makes you want to live and want to live in connection with community, with other people. Because we are all doing this together despite what, you know, is being preached and put forward.
17:34 Speaker 01 The call of humanity is to do it in community and to do it with each other.
17:40 Keke Palmer? You are so excellent with these complex emotions. And I always bring this up and I have to bring it up again on the podcast because everybody knows me, Girlfriends is one of my favorite shows of all time.
17:50 Speaker 01 I mean, you're a little bit dressed like Maya.
17:53 Keke Palmer? Come on, Maya. Maya, in that first season, like, I'm 25. Joan, I'm so tired of you being 25. You were 25 when we met. Like, I literally, every single episode, every single season, all the growth of the characters, but there's one particular moment that always sticks out for me and it makes me cry every time that I watch it.
18:11 Speaker 01 Oh, my God, which one?
18:11 Keke Palmer? It's the episode when you are talking to Ellis about...
18:15 Speaker 01 I'm happy for my friend.
18:15 Keke Palmer? I'm happy for my friend! Girl!
18:20 Speaker 01 Oh, I get chills.
18:21 Keke Palmer? That scene, "I'm happy for, I'm happy for my friend, I'm happy for my, I'm happy for my..."
18:26 Speaker 01 I'm happy for my friend.
18:28 Keke Palmer? It's so...
18:28 Speaker 01 Oh, my God, oh, my God, oh, my God. I can go back there in two seconds.
18:31 Keke Palmer? It's, it's so excellent.
18:34 Speaker 01 Can I tell you some stuff about that moment?
18:35 Keke Palmer? Please, please.
18:36 Speaker 01 That was so beautiful.
18:44 Keke Palmer? We are at the peak right now. This is it. July is the absolute top of summer. The most committed, most alive, most everything month of the entire year. The days are long, the energy is high, and everyone you love is finally available at the same time. This is the month summer delivers on everything it promised back in January when you were cold and optimistic. Okay, okay, so, my friends and I found this home on Airbnb in Turks and Caicos, perfect for a little couples getaway. Beachfront, palm trees, private, secluded, the kind of place where you look around and genuinely cannot see another soul and you think, oh, it's just us. The whole world disappeared and all that was left was our little group on this beach
19:29 Keke Palmer? like we had been dropped there by the universe specifically. Somebody's situationship got on the grill and did not disappoint. He was clearly prepared because he brought the sandals and everything. And moments like that, moments where everyone gathers around food that somebody actually cooked outside with the ocean right there, it was the kind of trip you stop trying to document because you're too busy enjoying it.
19:53 Keke Palmer? We found that stay on Airbnb and it's set the bar for every couples trip I take for the rest of my life. This is what peak summer can feel like, when the space is right. Find a home on Airbnb this summer and meet the moment. Peak summer is not waiting for you to get ready. There are two versions of me at any given moment. There's the version that is on the way somewhere, locked in, unbothered, do not interrupt me, I have a purpose. And then there's the version that sees a Starbucks and just turns, mid-stride with absolutely no hesitation. The second one is my favorite version, especially in the summer. I'm the one who orders a tropical butterfly refresher, guava and passion fruit flavors, these mango pineapple flavored pearls that pop in your mouth, and a butterfly pea
20:36 Keke Palmer? flower infusion on top that just shifts the color of the whole drink right in front of you. And I stand there watching it happen like it's the most important thing that happened all week, because it might be. One small choice can lead to a whole shift. Unlock your best summer memories with the tropical butterfly refresher from Starbucks. Order now on the app.
20:59 Speaker 01 There were, I think, four "I'm happy for my friends" lines. There was only four of them. And I was like, you can't tell me how long it takes to get where I need to go.
21:13 Keke Palmer? That's so true.
21:15 Speaker 01 And I didn't know how long it would take for me to go where I needed to go. And I don't know why I can't think of that actor's name, holy moly.
21:24 Keke Palmer? Yes, he's from British. He's British. Oh, my gosh. I know his character on the show, name was Ellis. And he was an actor. You dated him for a while on the show.
21:32 Speaker 01 And he played the lobster, remember?
21:33 Keke Palmer? Yep, he played the lobster. And then I took, and then he said, "We're fishing for lobster." Joan, he thought she had something going on with him. I never saw it for y'all personally on the show. I was tired of you and Ellis. The one I wanted you with was the sex addict.
21:48 Speaker 01 That was Don Dre.
21:50 Keke Palmer? I loved him and you.
21:52 Speaker 01 What was his name?
21:53 Keke Palmer? On the show.
21:54 Speaker 01 Oh, that was Adrian Lester was Ellis.
21:56 Keke Palmer? But you and the man, this man that was a sex. Oh, I hated, I didn't get why Joan didn't take her ass to New York. Just why didn't Joan do that?
22:07 Speaker 01 This is fantastic.
22:08 Keke Palmer? Anyway, sorry.
22:09 Speaker 01 By the way, I still have that dress.
22:11 Keke Palmer? Which?
22:12 Speaker 01 I can get it up my knee.
22:15 Speaker 01 I was so skinny. I was so skinny. I feel like in my older age that I'm at now that I'm heading back to that skinny place because like I've lost some of my thickness.
22:24 Keke Palmer? Oh, my gosh. How did it happen?
22:25 Speaker 01 I believe it's just getting older. I don't know. My muscle mass is cutting itself in half. I mean, I'm going with it. You know what I mean? I'm going with it. I'm loving it, embracing it. But literally sometimes.
22:35 Keke Palmer? Screaming.
22:35 Speaker 01 Sometimes I'm like, where is my thick? And then sometimes I turn around and I go, oh, it's still there.
22:41 Keke Palmer? Okay.
22:42 Speaker 01 Different place, but it's also not the same thick. I don't know.
22:45 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
22:45 Speaker 01 It's all different.
22:46 Keke Palmer? Our bodies change.
22:46 Speaker 01 They change and whatever.
22:47 Keke Palmer? Womenhood.
22:48 Speaker 01 I'm just very grateful that it's still holding me up. You know what I mean?
22:51 Keke Palmer? Yes.
22:51 Speaker 01 Um, but I still have that dress and I just remember that moment and I remember that take was that take. Um, and it was such a, that was such a moment, but also that was such a time. You know what? A thing, Kiki, that's so crazy. I spent 173 episodes for eight years talking about not being chosen.
23:12 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
23:13 Speaker 01 And when I came out of that show, I didn't realize how much my cells had taken that on, that, that sense of story. And, um, you know, a lot of people, uh, I talk very publicly about the idea of being the chooser. And I think, I don't think I did it consciously to talk publicly about it. But it was a way for me unconsciously to reclaim that I am the chooser.
23:42 Keke Palmer? Yes.
23:43 Speaker 01 That I am, I am worthy of choosing the right partner and that I don't have to sit around being a prize to wait to be chosen, that I am actually, which goes back to how you intro'd me, you know? Um, that I am, I am responsible for my own happiness.
23:59 Keke Palmer? But I feel like that's why that character. is so meaningful to me and I think it's a rite of passage to go through the process of watching girlfriends and falling in love with Joan and realizing that Joan was her biggest issue was that she always was the chooser and she pretended that she wasn't.
24:14 Speaker 01 And she just didn't know.
24:15 Keke Palmer? She didn't know because when she when when old boy wanted to marry her. She found a reason not to. When she found the opportunity with William, her long friend, she she that really was never meant to be her storyline. But we're told so much as women and I I relate so much to Joan. I relate so much to what you talk about because I've always felt that way about myself.
24:34 Speaker 01 I mean, we've talked about it a lot, yeah.
24:36 Keke Palmer? All the time because it's like I I don't know why the world decides that what validates me is this. And but the truth is like, what if I'm genuinely telling you that I do love love, I do love experience, but I I'm not attached to a particular outcome. Why don't you believe me? You know?
24:56 Speaker 01 Well, I mean, it's a real thing. I mean, you don't want to go to the big archetypes, but it's patriarchy, it's ageism, it's sexism, it's misogynoir. It's all of these things and they have a they have a name for a reason.
25:08 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
25:08 Speaker 01 You know, and I think for me, growing up, I never I didn't know. I thought it was my own personal um albatross, my own personal failing, my own personal self hatred. Like I I named it all the things for so many years. I at all the things and all of the things I named it were my fault. You know, I mean, all the things I named it.
25:32 Keke Palmer? Because I'm not fitting.
25:33 Speaker 01 Correct. And, you know, you and I, we've talked about this.
25:36 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
25:36 Speaker 01 I mean, you know what I mean? I mean, listen, if Kiki, if Kiki and I were made, if if there's a soup where they're making people, Kiki and I were probably in the same soup.
25:44 Keke Palmer? The same soup.
25:45 Speaker 01 You know what I mean? Was same soup.
25:46 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
25:46 Speaker 01 Might have came out on different ends and different states and different places, but same soup.
25:50 Keke Palmer? Same soup.
25:51 Speaker 01 You know, I mean, full identity. Like, I I came out like this. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what to tell you. Like, I'm a person who knows who I am. And I I feel like I always have and I feel like you always have.
26:02 Keke Palmer? Always.
26:02 Speaker 01 I mean, we've seen you from, I mean, what was the first one, the the bee?
26:06 Keke Palmer? Yep, Akilah the bee.
26:07 Speaker 01 Akilah the bee, was that the first one?
26:08 Keke Palmer? Yep, that was the well, the first one that people really were like, oh, you know, where we would know, yeah.
26:12 Speaker 01 Where we were like, who's that?
26:14 Keke Palmer? Exactly.
26:14 Speaker 01 Um, and so, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh.
26:17 Keke Palmer? I always think about the fact that you're the original Blue Ivy.
26:20 Speaker 01 Rhonda really is.
26:22 Keke Palmer? Oh my gosh, Rhonda.
26:24 Speaker 01 My older sister.
26:24 Keke Palmer? Shout out to Rhonda.
26:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, Berry Gordy and Dina Ross, she's the original.
26:28 Keke Palmer? Yes, it's so true.
26:29 Speaker 01 I'm not sure where you would put me, but you know, Maya Rudolph, me, Rashida Jones.
26:33 Keke Palmer? Oh, yeah.
26:34 Speaker 01 We're in that camp. We're over there. Iconic children.
26:40 Speaker 01 Who all have really, you know, claimed our identity.
26:43 Keke Palmer? Oh my gosh, in incredible ways.
26:45 Speaker 01 Outside of our parents' embrace and their, the way that they've paved, that they paved and the space that they created, not only in the industry but for us. But yeah, that's so funny.
26:56 Keke Palmer? Yeah. Insane.
26:58 Speaker 01 Yeah.
26:58 Keke Palmer? Okay, what's a question you wish you were asked more in interviews? If there is one?
27:04 Speaker 01 I don't know. I don't think there, I mean.
27:07 Keke Palmer? Yeah, you get, I mean, you get so many cool questions because everybody knows you're so smart, so it's, I feel like, we can, feels like we can ask you anything.
27:15 Speaker 01 Yeah, and I feel like, I don't feel afraid to be asked anything, because if I don't want to answer it, I just won't. You know what I mean? Like, I don't feel afraid to say, "I'm not answering that." I've said that to people. I remember we went through a phase, I went through a phase, like during Blackish, where I swear to God, people were asking me why I hadn't had children and had I thought about it. And I remember saying to one person on camera, I said, "Will you get out of my womb?" And she was like, "Oh." I said, "No, but really, like, why are you asking me that question? That's insane."
27:45 Keke Palmer? Because what can I say?
27:46 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'm like, and all [BLEEP] kids. And why am I having that conversation with you?
27:49 Keke Palmer? Yeah, like, so much.
27:50 Speaker 01 Like, I was like, I don't even understand what's happening right now. So bizarre. Stop.
27:53 Keke Palmer? It's so true.
27:54 Speaker 01 I was like, stop. I, I am not.
27:56 Keke Palmer? Sometimes interviewers take that interview [BLEEP] too far. Like, you know, come on now, girl. Now you're just trying to get into my butt.
28:01 Speaker 01 I literally felt like this.
28:02 Keke Palmer? Business, mama. Yeah, like, you, it's not even an interview.
28:05 Speaker 01 Wait, is that vintage?
28:06 Keke Palmer? This is your boy. Sergio Hudson.
28:09 Speaker 01 I, I was just gonna, yes, it is.
28:12 Keke Palmer? Sergio, you know that.
28:13 Speaker 01 Our love bug.
28:14 Keke Palmer? Our love bug. We love you, Sergio.
28:16 Speaker 01 We love you, Sergio.
28:17 Keke Palmer? Oh, my gosh, he's the best.
28:18 Speaker 01 What is not to love about you, Sergio?
28:19 Keke Palmer? Those robes that you guys did the collaboration on for a pattern was so sickening.
28:23 Speaker 01 They were based on the robes my mom used to wear backstage.
28:29 Keke Palmer? The fabulosity just consumes us.
28:31 Speaker 01 The fabulosity consumes. Do you know, I live in this milk. I don't know what I just said. Kiki, take it back, Kiki.
28:41 Keke Palmer? You know what, did you ever work with, because I feel like you guys also remind me of each other and I would have loved to see you do movies, some movies like her, Diane Keaton. Did you guys ever?
28:51 Speaker 01 She directed me in my first film.
28:53 Keke Palmer? You guys, I mean, you're just like, it's Annie Hall, like, it's like you have that kind of thing as well, where it's just like kooky fun, like, girl, like whimsy, like, ah, like, I'm so.
29:01 Speaker 01 So Diane Keaton, I would say Carol Burnett, Lucille Ball, Diane Keaton, I mean, come on.
29:08 Keke Palmer? What?
29:09 Speaker 01 The archetype, the, the archetype of a lifetime. I mean, of a lifetime, of a lifetime, and it still holds up. Because you know what, it was humor from a different place, Kiki. It was not humor about making people feel bad, or people falling down, or whatever, it was, I mean, come on.
29:25 Keke Palmer? It was so true, it was humor from the place of like, a real personification.
29:30 Speaker 01 Oh my god.
29:30 Keke Palmer? Like truly leaning into a character.
29:32 Speaker 01 Yes, and turn up that volume and you can't be too big.
29:36 Keke Palmer? You can't be too.
29:37 Speaker 01 You can't be too big. I mean, Carol Burnett, but like Diane Keaton, for me, was one of those women who I saw age so beautifully.
29:46 Keke Palmer? Yes, truly.
29:48 Speaker 01 And I saw, like, just, oh my god, and what I saw was, you can never, you will always be full of life if you laugh.
29:58 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
29:59 Speaker 01 I mean, when she would smile, the entire world lit up.
30:03 Keke Palmer? No, seriously.
30:04 Speaker 01 Just lit up. And I, I never want to stop smiling, I never want to stop giggling, I want my face to make all of that happen.
30:12 Keke Palmer? Oh my gosh, yes, it's so true, I feel the same way, that's why I hate when we get so much into this, I'm not saying people can't get theirself right, but it's like when we get so perfected, that we don't at least see the expression, we gotta still get the.
30:23 Speaker 01 Get out of here.
30:24 Keke Palmer? Be the gag of it all.
30:25 Speaker 01 If you think of me on Blackish, half the time, I didn't say [BLEEP], okay, what I did was.
30:32 Keke Palmer? What?
30:33 Speaker 01 I mean, that's all I did. I made faces. You say so much with your face. If my face doesn't move, and then now, everybody's obsessed. They're like, when I do this, there's wrinkles.
30:42 Keke Palmer? But you need it.
30:43 Speaker 01 Well, this is my other thing, because like, my neck is getting a little bit looser, okay? It's just, it's like a touch.
30:48 Keke Palmer? Nia Long scared me about the neck [BLEEP]. I've been moisturizing it like never before.
30:52 Speaker 01 You have to, darling.
30:53 Keke Palmer? It's scary, the neck thing.
30:55 Speaker 01 Get your hands and wear that sunblock. I don't care that you're black. Put that sunblock on, okay? Because you know what? The ozone out there is gone. So it's gonna, it's gonna get you, okay?
31:05 Keke Palmer? It's coming for you. And let me tell you something. We're all going in the same direction.
31:10 Speaker 01 So, my neck is, it's a little bit looser, okay? Whatever. And I thought, I kept, I was doing this the other day, and I was like, well, I mean, if you make it too tight, I don't know about you, but I want to keep looking this way, and I want to keep looking this way, and I want to look this way, and this way. I don't want it so tight I can't look this way. I want to know who's coming behind me. I want to know. You got to keep that neck where it goes.
31:31 Keke Palmer? No, because sometimes that [BLEEP] gets too pulled.
31:33 Speaker 01 Too tight. You know, they're like, I want this jawline. I'm like, oh, come on, what are we doing?
31:38 Keke Palmer? And you're gonna snap, it's gonna snap on you.
31:40 Speaker 01 You don't want that, Kiki.
31:41 Keke Palmer? That's so scary. I don't want it.
31:43 Speaker 01 I don't want to cross my legs and my mouth opens. Do you know what I mean?
31:47 Keke Palmer? Or like,
31:47 Speaker 01 Like, it's so tight.
31:48 Keke Palmer? You're moving your eyes like.
31:49 Speaker 01 It's so tight, like, ah!
31:50 Keke Palmer? It's so bad.
31:51 Speaker 01 No, I don't want it.
31:52 Keke Palmer? Oh, no, no, no.
31:53 Speaker 01 Now, listen. Catch me in five years, I might have a different [BLEEP] story, and I don't want to hear [BLEEP]. Okay?
31:59 Keke Palmer? Tracy, you look great.
32:00 Speaker 01 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. I support everybody making all the choices. You want to love yourself, whatever that looks like for you.
32:09 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
32:10 Speaker 01 Um, but I also, for me, personally, I, I love the life in my face.
32:15 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
32:15 Speaker 01 I don't want to look like a baby dolphin.
32:22 Speaker 01 I don't want it, okay?
32:23 Keke Palmer? It's too much.
32:24 Speaker 01 For today, it's too much.
32:25 Keke Palmer? Um, last question for the pre-show pull-up, even though it's like,
32:27 Speaker 01 This is all the pre-show pull-ups?
32:28 Keke Palmer? That we, we were so robust.
32:30 Speaker 01 I'm so dead.
32:31 Keke Palmer? I love how robust we are.
32:32 Speaker 01 By the way, I have things that I wanted to talk to you about at dinner and forgot, and I said, I kept a list.
32:38 Keke Palmer? Oh, [BLEEP]. I'm ready whenever.
32:39 Speaker 01 No, no, no.
32:40 Keke Palmer? I cannot wait.
32:40 Speaker 01 Finish the pull-up. Finish the pull-up.
32:42 Keke Palmer? The last one of the pull-up is, have you ever been starstruck? Was it, who?
32:46 Speaker 01 I'm so cursing. Okay, hold on. Okay, first of all.
32:49 Keke Palmer? I cannot wait till you talk.
32:50 Speaker 01 I have been starstruck, first of all, in hindsight. Okay?
32:54 Keke Palmer? Now, this is interesting.
32:55 Speaker 01 No, but in, in real life, Um, I met Lucille Ball. I presented to her. No, no, no, hold on, okay, hold on. I met Carol Burnett. I presented to her at the, what is it called? Is it Peabody Awards?
33:09 Keke Palmer? Uh huh, the Peabody is incredible.
33:11 Speaker 01 And I thought, I was, I really, I really thought I was gonna lose it. But I was like, I got this, I got this, cuz it's Carol Burnett, okay? Um, I also met Lucille Ball as a kid. And before I met her, yeah, I know, before I met her, I was told that she was staying on the same hotel floor as us. And I kept going like this, Lucy, I'm home!
33:38 Keke Palmer? Lucy, I'm home!
33:40 Speaker 01 I literally, I kept screaming it, and my sisters were like, will you shut up? And I was like, but she might hear me. Lucille Ball might hear, Lucy! Lucy, it's Tracy! Like, I just kept, she did not hear me, I don't think. But I did meet her, and, I mean, just stops, just hold the presses, like, close the doors, close the windows, like, what? Okay, I actually made a list because I've met some of the most extraordinary people. Andy Warhol painted me and my sisters.
34:08 Keke Palmer? What?
34:08 Speaker 01 I met him. I was not starstruck, I was actually frightened.
34:13 Keke Palmer? Well, probably the look, he had a very distinct look.
34:15 Speaker 01 I did not understand what was happening. It was, it was...
34:18 Keke Palmer? He, I mean, I, I, I realized so much about Andy's work now as an adult that I didn't understand as a kid. And this kind of satirical reflective thing that he was always doing, that I feel...
34:30 Speaker 01 And creating sort of pop culture in art and mixing them in a way that is, it's kind of extraordinary.
34:36 Keke Palmer? It's extraordinary, and obviously it's inspired where we are today, but I see that kind of meta-narrative happening in different mediums in a way that is very much like akin to what he introduced.
34:48 Speaker 01 By the way, speaking of that, um, I love that you know who Andy Warhol is. I love that you have a sense of like, what about it is interesting to you? And as I've gotten older, like, I think I thought museums were for... People who carried clutches and wore and smoked pipes. Do you know what I mean?
35:08 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
35:08 Speaker 01 I don't know that I thought art was for me. And as an adult, I find, you know, Amy Sherald, Carol Walker, there are Theaster Gates.
35:20 Speaker 01 Knowing Thelma Golden, do you know Thelma Golden?
35:22 Keke Palmer? No, Thelma do not know.
35:23 Speaker 01 You must know Thelma.
35:24 Keke Palmer? I know Mickalene Thomas, I know Bisa Butler.
35:26 Speaker 01 Yes.
35:26 Keke Palmer? But I'm getting a little into the stuff.
35:28 Speaker 01 Thelma Golden runs the Studio Museum of Harlem. She is a curator, she's a black woman, and she's an extraordinary human being. And she is sort of the epicenter of black art in our culture and in our country. And in the world, honestly. And I became friends with her and she walked me, it was the first time, I dated a visual artist back in the day.
35:55 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
35:55 Speaker 01 And I went to a museum with him to see his work at LACMA. And I experienced art in a way that I had never experienced before when you're with the artist. Because you know, you're not supposed to touch it, it's far away, you know, don't get close. He was like, smell it, touch it, because he made it. And I, I was so blown away by that and it changed my relationship to art. And then when I went with Thelma Golden, she brought me to the opening of Kerry James Marshall's show in Los Angeles, his full retrospective. And she walked me through the exhibit. And to hear somebody who knows so much about art, explain and talk about a black artist and what it's, something will never leave me, can I tell you?
36:39 Keke Palmer? Please, I'm so, I'm hanging on every word.
36:41 Speaker 01 What she said was Kerry James Marshall, and I don't even know if this is true, but it doesn't matter because of how it stayed with me. That when you're in art school, you learn how to create color based on white, the white color of paint. So you mix with white as the base to create color. And I don't know a lot about color. Kerry creates skin tone using black as the base.
37:08 Speaker 01 And it creates this hue within blackness. That is, I mean, it's such a beautiful thing. And so, we talk about Andy Warhol and the art of Van Gogh. This is, you know, these different things that we grew up in school hearing about. But as you get older and you get to experience the breadth of art that has been born out of the black experience, it is phenomenal to me. There's a beautiful documentary that was on HBO that's worth seeing. Anyway.
37:41 Keke Palmer? I love what you're speaking to because the entry point of art is, it needs to feel true to you. And I think that I only was able to look at Andy Warhol's work in a different way or even understand it in a different way after I had met Michaeline Thomas. And then honestly, even before that, a relationship that I had started to have with the restaurant Alenia in Chicago, where basically my entry point had to be that everybody is storytelling in their medium. I did not understand it that way. I didn't understand, I didn't realize that storytelling wasn't just something that, how I know it narratively or in film and television and writing.
38:17 Speaker 01 That there's all these different ways to enter.
38:20 Keke Palmer? And so, when I started doing it with food and seeing about it with food and then I met Michaeline and I've started to really understand art as that, in that way.
38:27 Speaker 01 That's a beautiful way of expressing it.
38:28 Keke Palmer? Then it became easier for me to get involved with it. So, I definitely need to go check out them.
38:32 Speaker 01 And also movement, dance. I mean, that's a language that is extraordinary. Visual language, graphic design and all of that. I find, I find that any form of authentic expression lights my soul up.
38:48 Keke Palmer? Me too.
38:48 Speaker 01 Just lights my soul up.
38:52 Keke Palmer? I mean.
38:53 Speaker 01 Oh, wait, I have more people.
38:54 Keke Palmer? Okay, yes.
38:54 Speaker 01 In hindsight, because I didn't know how exciting it was, but Marvin Gaye.
39:00 Keke Palmer? Oh, you met Marvin Gaye?
39:03 Speaker 01 He used to call the house all the time. "Mom, it's Marvin!"
39:08 Keke Palmer? Now, "Mom" is Marvin.
39:09 Speaker 01 "Mom, it's Michael!"
39:12 Speaker 01 Um.
39:16 Speaker 01 By the way, I have a great story from childhood.
39:18 Keke Palmer? Evan sounds just like Michael.
39:19 Speaker 01 I know. I think he was very influenced by that.
39:23 Keke Palmer? Evan, he's like, hey, hey, hey, yo.
39:24 Speaker 01 Evan's music right now is, has he sent you stuff?
39:28 Keke Palmer? He has.
39:29 Speaker 01 It's so good.
39:29 Keke Palmer? Evan's always been good, but Evan kills me because every time I see him, I'm like, did you see this with my mom? This is in 1999.
39:35 Speaker 01 I know, he loves her.
39:36 Keke Palmer? It's the, if Leo doesn't act like that about me, I'm blowing a gasket.
39:41 Speaker 01 Here's the thing about Evan and mom that I realized, because I was like, dude, what is the deal? Like, okay, I get it, I've seen the picture. He, I lived it.
39:51 Speaker 01 He didn't.
39:51 Keke Palmer? Oh my gosh, you, because you saw her in the main.
39:55 Speaker 01 I was in it. It was the mom that came home every night.
39:59 Keke Palmer? Oh my gosh, girl, that's crazy.
40:02 Speaker 01 So I lived it, he didn't, so he's experiencing what I lived through the pictures and the videos that he finds.
40:08 Keke Palmer? It's the sweetest thing.
40:10 Speaker 01 It is the sweetest thing in the world.
40:11 Keke Palmer? You say my mom, my mom, she's just so awesome, man.
40:13 Speaker 01 I know.
40:14 Keke Palmer? Look at my mom, she's always been a diva.
40:15 Speaker 01 Does he ever show you pictures of him? I'm joking.
40:19 Speaker 01 Isn't that me? Is this my mom?
40:21 Keke Palmer? Neat.
40:21 Speaker 01 Okay, whatever.
40:22 Keke Palmer? Marvin Gaye is nuts.
40:25 Speaker 01 Michael, oh, here's my Michael story, and then we'll get off of the.
40:27 Keke Palmer? Oh, gosh, please.
40:28 Speaker 01 The starstruck. Steve, I, I did recently meet Martin Short at a valet.
40:32 Keke Palmer? Oh, Martin Short.
40:32 Speaker 01 And I thought I was gonna, I was like, I love you, I love you, I love you.
40:35 Keke Palmer? That's how I felt with Steve Martin, too.
40:37 Speaker 01 I also cried when I met Annie Lamott, the writer.
40:39 Keke Palmer? Now, Annie Lamott?
40:40 Speaker 01 She's a wonderful writer, and I love her.
40:43 Keke Palmer? What do I know that? A book?
40:44 Speaker 01 Books. And I, I, I met her and I was like, I just really love you, and I made an ugly cry.
40:53 Speaker 01 Michael. Uh, my mom was on the phone in her room, and she said, does anyone want to talk to Michael before I hang up? And I said, yes. And I came and I said, Michael? Everybody at school? I'm scared as hell.
41:07 Keke Palmer? Because what did you say?
41:08 Speaker 01 That you're just saying, I'm a same, I'm a same, I'm a same, I'm a same. But I know what you're saying, and I told them, because I know you, I said, you're saying, I've been saying by the sound of Michael's song, I've been saying by the sound of Michael's song. And he said, I'm not, but it should be.
41:23 Speaker 01 But that's what I thought he was saying. And I kept telling, you know how when you're a kid, you're like, "My dad's a police officer." You know how you like, put whatever? But I was like, "I know him. I know Michael. And he told me." That's what he's saying. He's been, "You've been saved by the sound of Michael's song." Every time he's singing, that's what you're singing. "I've been saved by the sound of Michael's song." I'm gonna ask him. No, it's not what he was saying.
41:42 Keke Palmer? Yo, I've been saved by the sound of Michael's song.
41:45 Speaker 01 "I've been saved by the sound of Michael's song." "I've been saved by the sound of Michael's song."
41:51 Speaker 01 You don't even-
41:51 Keke Palmer? Yo, I love "I've been saved by the sound of Michael's song."
41:54 Speaker 01 I mean, how many people have been saved by the sound of Michael's song? I mean, duh.
41:59 Keke Palmer? Yo, that is really funny. "I've been saved by the sound of Michael's song." That's way better than my dad thinking he said, "The Ched is not my son."
42:06 Speaker 01 Oh, okay.
42:07 Keke Palmer? Why would that be it, Dad?
42:08 Speaker 01 I don't know, but-
42:09 Keke Palmer? "The Ched is not my..." Who the **** is Ched?
42:10 Speaker 01 I don't know.
42:11 Keke Palmer? "The Ched is not my son."
42:12 Speaker 01 But maybe that was his name, Ched. But like, do you remember? By the way, I want everyone to know that I have my arms crossed like this and I look like I'm upset because my armpits are sweaty. So, this is not my posture. My posture is really like this. But this is a problem. Okay, okay, anyway, so-
42:31 Keke Palmer? And I'm also like this because I'm afraid I'm gonna give him a shirt down.
42:35 Speaker 01 We got, whatever, that's fine. You know what? This is what I always say to people when they get upset on set. And they're like, "Oh, you got your hair, it's not matching." I'm like, "Listen, if my acting is, if you are focused on my hair, my acting is not cutting it."
42:47 Keke Palmer? Period.
42:47 Speaker 01 So our conversation-
42:48 Keke Palmer? It should be so good. They shouldn't care how bed ragged we look.
42:51 Speaker 01 You don't even know. You, they don't know. They don't know. Uh-uh, but that's okay. But yes, I was saying something that I don't remember.
42:59 Keke Palmer? We was talking about still Michael. We was talking about "I'm saved by the sound of Michael's song." How funny that is. How funny it is to get the lyrics to people's song wrong.
43:06 Speaker 01 "Sooner or later..." Do you know what I thought that was?
43:09 Keke Palmer? What is it?
43:10 Speaker 01 "Send her a letter." What? What?
43:18 Speaker 01 Well, I mean, but I was singing it in the car once and my sister was like- "What'd you just say?"
43:22 Keke Palmer? It's so crazy how we make up this stuff in our kids.
43:24 Speaker 01 And then you are in it and committed.
43:27 Keke Palmer? Oh my gosh, it's too funny.
43:29 Speaker 01 Okay, okay.
43:30 Keke Palmer? I mean-
43:31 Speaker 01 I'm listening.
43:33 Keke Palmer? We've talked about so much already.
43:35 Speaker 01 I know, I know.
43:35 Keke Palmer? But I feel like I have to ask you, like-
43:37 Speaker 01 Go.
43:37 Keke Palmer? Was it your intention to become-
43:40 Speaker 01 No.
43:42 Speaker 01 No, Kiki. No.
43:44 Keke Palmer? Because you obviously reflect a version of womanhood that was not in media. You know what I mean? Truly, through your characters, through your work, and then even more so as a personality. When did it become something that you were like, "Oh, this is, this is unique for you guys. I should lean in." Or, "This is unique for you guys."
44:00 Speaker 01 No, so it actually goes further underneath that, which is that I leaned in because it's my truth. There has to be an example somewhere between Cat Ladies and Joan of Arc, okay?
44:13 Keke Palmer? No, for real.
44:13 Speaker 01 Okay? All right, there's gotta be, there's gotta be some stuff in between. You know what I mean? Like, there's gotta be, you can be sexy and amazing and, and also want a partner and also live your life and also not wait and also, like, all the things.
44:28 Keke Palmer? Just be human.
44:29 Speaker 01 Just do it, just go ahead. And I'm sorry it's so confronting for people to have a woman just live out loud. And, and, um, yeah, I don't, I don't know why that's so confronting for people. Um, it's puzzling to me, but there's a lot of things, Kiki, that I find puzzling, that I think that people get hung up on that I don't understand.
44:48 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
44:49 Speaker 01 I'm like, why is that so upsetting for you? That seems...
44:52 Keke Palmer? I'm just being me, but I think it's because, I can't read people's mind, but what I've at least told myself when I'm experiencing this kind of big uphill battle for me just simply doing me is that a lot of people believed that they couldn't.
45:04 Speaker 01 Yeah, yes.
45:05 Keke Palmer? And they stayed there. And then they're seeing somebody succeed or be happy by not believing it. And then it be creates this resentment where it's like, "No, no, you're not allowed to have this because they told me."
45:16 Speaker 01 I don't know that I find it from the people that stayed small.
45:21 Keke Palmer? Mm-hmm.
45:22 Speaker 01 I find that those are actually the people that feel empowered.
45:27 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
45:27 Speaker 01 Or, um, a sense of courage comes from that, yes. Um, I find that it comes from people that it threatens their idea of who they want me to be so that they can get what they want.
45:42 Keke Palmer? And it's like, what do you want from me?
45:43 Speaker 01 So it's, it's men that would prefer um a small lady. You know, I mean, I, that's not a fair way to put it.
45:51 Keke Palmer? Maybe they're threat, it's like they feel as if this person's threatened than the status quo. If you feel like this is what you can do or who you can be and you feel empowered by that image, then in turn, it makes it, it makes it difficult for me to be able to have that kind of control or have that kind of, you know?
46:06 Speaker 01 I don't know. I mean, I really don't know.
46:07 Keke Palmer? Right.
46:08 Speaker 01 And I really-
46:08 Keke Palmer? You're just shooting the [BLEEP] on it.
46:09 Speaker 01 Yeah, you were shooting the [BLEEP] on it. I mean, you know, I try really hard not to try and get in people's heads and think what they're thinking. Cause I have no [BLEEP] idea. I mean, I'm bumbling along myself trying to figure out this life thing. You know what I mean?
46:22 Keke Palmer? Yeah, yeah.
46:23 Speaker 01 I don't know. But um, what I do push up against is anything that makes me feel small. I don't want it.
46:32 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
46:33 Speaker 01 I wanna be able to choose when I wanna be small or when I wanna be big or when I wanna be loud or when I wanna be quiet. I want that to be my choice. And I want it to be everyone's choice.
46:42 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
46:42 Speaker 01 I really believe that. Um, and I don't know. I mean, I know, it's so funny. Sometimes people get so hung up on things I've said and I'm like, really? Was that something-
46:53 Keke Palmer? Someone did it?
46:53 Speaker 01 Is it, that was the thing everyone wanted to talk about? Neat!
46:56 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
46:57 Speaker 01 You know?
46:58 Keke Palmer? I mean, I feel like it's so cool that you have such a strong sense of self, seeing as how you came from such a big legacy. That seems like something that could really weigh you down. People having expectations of you early on.
47:10 Speaker 01 I think it did when I was younger.
47:11 Keke Palmer? How did you, was it your mom, was your mom encouraging you? Was it your life experiences? Like, how did you be able to not let that burden you? Even before you became, you know, famous in your own right?
47:20 Speaker 01 I mean, even from high school, I felt very aware of being um, watched.
47:26 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
47:26 Speaker 01 I, I remember, yeah, I felt very aware from a young age. I remember um, I was like, I can't get in the car with them. I don't know, I would always, you know, I'm a storyteller and-
47:37 Keke Palmer? I love it.
47:38 Speaker 01 I'm very dramatic. So I was like, well, I can't get in the car with them, cause I don't know if they have drugs in the car. And then we get pulled over, then it's Dinaros's daughter has been pulled over and it's a, you know, it's a cautionary tale, you know?
47:48 Keke Palmer? That stressed me out a lot as a kid.
47:50 Speaker 01 It was always, I always felt, I mean, then also as a black girl, you know, that we, it's always like you, you had to um-
47:58 Keke Palmer? You had to overcompensate for so many perceived things about you.
48:02 Speaker 01 Correct.
48:03 Keke Palmer? I gotta be happy because you think I'm angry. I gotta be jazzy because you think I'm, you know.
48:06 Speaker 01 I gotta be smart because you think I'm dumb. I gotta be, I mean, like, whatever the, whatever the thing. Right? So, um, and I think that's a universal, um, experience where we share, you know.
48:18 Keke Palmer? Without a doubt.
48:18 Speaker 01 And then there's the uniqueness of my mom and who she was and who, who she is. I shouldn't say was, but I meant was because I was a kid.
48:25 Keke Palmer? I know what you meant.
48:25 Speaker 01 Um, so I don't know. I don't know what other people's thoughts. I mean, I did. I was scrolling through. I was looking for something I did and I was scroll. I don't really understand the TikTok.
48:36 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
48:37 Speaker 01 I like the TikTok.
48:38 Keke Palmer? The UI is a little bit tough for me. It's also bam in your face.
48:41 Speaker 01 It screams at you and sometimes you open it, it punches you. You know what I mean? But so I'm in there sometimes. Anyway, I went in there and, um, I saw this thing, you know, you get the little seconds of the beginning of the video.
48:52 Keke Palmer? Mm-hmm.
48:53 Speaker 01 Um, Tracee Ellis Ross is a bad example for young girls.
48:56 Keke Palmer? I hate this type.
48:57 Speaker 01 And I was like, and I was like, scroll. I said, I don't know. I feel like I'm a good example.
49:03 Keke Palmer? I don't know what you think, but to each his own. I don't have to be everybody's cup of tea. But it's like every other week it becomes a thing. Every other week it becomes a thing about anybody and it's like, yeah, with the internet I have a, uh, yeah. I wonder, how do you feel about it? Like, are you the person that's commenting? I, I feel like I never see you comment back anything. I feel like I only get a chance and a great opportunity to hear from you outside of our great friendship is in an interview you decide to talk. Because it is easy to get caught up in the online. I feel like in my early years I used to.
49:31 Speaker 01 It's just none of my business.
49:32 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
49:33 Speaker 01 Um, it's, that's, yeah. I mean, I think everybody should do whatever the hell they're doing.
49:37 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
49:38 Speaker 01 But it's just none of my business.
49:39 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
49:39 Speaker 01 I do, I do love posting pretty pictures though.
49:41 Keke Palmer? Girl, I love your page. I love your page. I love your travels. I love everything you give us. I love when you did the, um, video. It's so funny because I'm like, it's like so meta because I, I watch girlfriends all the time. So I'm watching you as a performer all the time. Then I do the POV of, you know, you going over the guy's house and then you do the, uh, the same thing.
50:00 Speaker 01 So funny.
50:01 Keke Palmer? And it's almost, it's like, I'm, I'm kind of doing you and then you're joking doing me doing you and it's like, how is this?
50:08 Speaker 01 Wait, first of all, I said you look like Maya. I'm wrong. You've got a Diana Ross thing going on.
50:12 Keke Palmer? Oh, my God.
50:14 Speaker 01 Sergio, Sergio, I picked it up Sergio, I picked it up. I'm late, but I picked it up, okay?
50:21 Keke Palmer? OMG Sergio always knows, he always is doing these little...
50:24 Speaker 01 Yes, yes, I see what's happening, yes, okay, sorry.
50:28 Keke Palmer? Um, but yeah, like, so it's so funny, so, anyway, social media, you do fun videos, you're really good at it. I mean, what is the process for you with getting into...
50:37 Speaker 01 I don't do anything for social media. Every once in a while, um, like, there was some challenge, is that what you call it?
50:45 Keke Palmer? Mm-hmm, yep.
50:46 Speaker 01 Um, there was some challenge that, um, I did, the lights-off one. That was fun.
50:51 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
50:51 Speaker 01 That was fun, um, but like most...
50:53 Keke Palmer? Go feel energy town.
50:54 Speaker 01 But mostly, I don't, it, the truth is, the worst thing that ever happened to anybody was that they put a camera on the phone. Because, growing up, I was the queen of the auto-timer. Don't give me a camera, and don't give me a video camera, okay? Do you not, do you know about my holiday video that started my career?
51:15 Keke Palmer? No.
51:15 Speaker 01 Oh, gruel.
51:16 Keke Palmer? Come on!
51:24 Keke Palmer? In every great production, there is the star. And then there's the thing that makes the star look good without ever asking for credit? Think about it. The right lighting paired with a perfectly timed music cue. The one friend who fixes your collar before you walk into a room. They're unsung, but yet absolutely essential. Life is already asking a lot of you. The best things are the ones that take something off your plate without you even having to ask. That's what Fruit of the Loom Women's Underwear is in my daily lineup. I'm putting together looks, I'm making entrances, I'm doing the most as always, and underneath all of it is something so comfortable and so reliable that I genuinely forget it's there. And when you're going to do the most, the last thing you need is one more decision.
52:09 Keke Palmer? Fruit of the Loom is the one I already made. Comfortable, reliable, completely off my mental checklist. The fit doesn't shift and the fabric doesn't fight me, it just lets me do what I do. The most powerful pieces in any ensemble. Are the ones that elevate without competing. And when something supports you that effortlessly, you stop searching and you start trusting. It becomes the easy choice. Not because it's basic, because it's exactly right. One less thing to figure out, one decision you never have to second guess about. Fruit of the Loom proves that simple feels really good.
52:46 Keke Palmer? So I need to talk about something that has been taking up a lot of my mental real estate lately. It started casual. I just stopped in, wasn't even planning on it. And now, now I'm thinking about it in between meetings, telling people about it who didn't ask. This is a tropical butterfly refresher from Starbucks. And I am fully aware of how it sounds right now. Guava and passion fruit flavors, mango pineapple flavored pearls that pop, and this butterfly pea flower on top that shifts the color of the whole drink right in front of you. It's beautiful and delicious and mesmerizing. I don't know where this is going, but I'm not asking questions. Unlock your best summer memories with the tropical butterfly refresher from Starbucks. Order now on the app.
53:34 Speaker 01 So I was.
53:36 Keke Palmer? I was.
53:37 Speaker 01 I was, I mean, this. I'm always so mindful of how I talk. Okay, anyway, I used a Hi8 video camera in my kitchen. And I used to do, I play dress up all the time. It's one of my favorite things to do. If I'm bored, I like to play in my closet. Sometimes I make a good outfit and every once in a while, that outfit actually becomes a person. And I have all these alter egos. And so back in, what year was I? It was before Girlfriends. It was what got me Lyricus Lounge, my first sketch comedy show. Yeah, I'm older than you. Um, so, so I, um, in my kitchen, in my first apartment in LA,
54:18 Speaker 01 I did a video and it was like proper editing with like tape. Like I went and edited it. It was a VHS tape.
54:29 Keke Palmer? I have a VHS.
54:30 Speaker 01 Okay, it was a VHS tape and it was "Happy Holidays For Me And All My Alter Egos." And I made this tape and I sent it out to like 52 people. Some family, some people in the business, and my mom got ahold of it over Christmas and she was, she brought me up to her room to talk to me. I was like-
54:49 Keke Palmer? She thought she was crazy.
54:51 Speaker 01 She was like, "Is this the right thing to do and can you get them back?"
54:58 Speaker 01 I was like, "Yeah, it's great. I think it's out of my career."
55:01 Keke Palmer? I think now they all know.
55:03 Speaker 01 Oh my gosh.
55:04 Keke Palmer? What did people say back?
55:06 Speaker 01 Well, it got me the sketch comedy show.
55:08 Keke Palmer? So they, so they did, so they were like, they, you got, what did your mama say then? Was she like, "Damn, okay, bro?"
55:13 Speaker 01 Oh no, she literally later was like, "Can I make one?"
55:18 Speaker 01 Um, yeah, I, I have, I have all these different parts of me, you know what I mean? Just like you do, you know, I think when you're, when you're a big planet-
55:27 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
55:27 Speaker 01 You have a lot of small planets in you that just do all these different things.
55:31 Keke Palmer? Come on, multiverse.
55:32 Speaker 01 Do you know what I mean?
55:32 Keke Palmer? We live for it, yeah.
55:33 Speaker 01 That's right, multiverse, I'm taking that.
55:34 Keke Palmer? No, seriously.
55:35 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's just like, you know, some days it's like the long hair, some days I'm this person, some days I'm that, yeah. Tell me when you get to a place where you want me to bring my topic up.
55:42 Keke Palmer? I want now.
55:43 Speaker 01 Okay.
55:44 Keke Palmer? Yes!
55:44 Speaker 01 So I have a question for you. This is such a Kiki Tracy comment topic. Can we talk about male beauty standards and where they came from? Like, can we even maybe Google it? Cause I'm really curious. Where did-
55:57 Keke Palmer? I love you.
55:58 Speaker 01 Where did lining up black man's hair come from? Where did this come from?
56:02 Keke Palmer? Yeah, the lining up [BLEEP], right?
56:03 Speaker 01 Like, I just want to understand.
56:04 Keke Palmer? And when they got the white thing there.
56:05 Speaker 01 Cause I really love the factory setting. I personally, you know what I mean, I love-
56:08 Keke Palmer? I mean, my thing is I want it slightly touched, but like, you don't need to be like-
56:11 Speaker 01 Wear it's like a hat, like a small-
56:13 Keke Palmer? No shade, Jermaine.
56:13 Speaker 01 Like-
56:14 Keke Palmer? I love Jermaine. I love Jermaine St. Jane.
56:15 Speaker 01 We love you.
56:16 Keke Palmer? I love Jermaine.
56:16 Speaker 01 But that's different, okay. But where did, where did, I just wanna know, like, you know, we can track back where like, some of women's beauty standards, but like, where is it?
56:27 Keke Palmer? It had to be somebody in rap.
56:29 Speaker 01 You think it was like Mace?
56:30 Keke Palmer? Yeah, but his was relaxed.
56:32 Speaker 01 Yeah, it was, okay.
56:33 Keke Palmer? It was like, he had a soft one, he had a, like, I feel like it was somebody that was like, probably from Philly.
56:39 Speaker 01 Okay, that was where it began. It was like, what, what's it called, the, uh, when they put the ink?
56:46 Keke Palmer? That definitely had to be, I feel it was Philly.
56:48 Speaker 01 It was Philly.
56:49 Keke Palmer? I feel it was Philly or DC or something.
56:51 Speaker 01 We know what the conk, like, back in the day, like, we understand all that, but like, the line.
56:54 Keke Palmer? But I don't know why they want that so tense.
56:55 Speaker 01 You see, you see me, you see me not lifting my arms up.
56:58 Keke Palmer? And sometimes it's the white line, they keep the white line.
57:00 Speaker 01 They keep the white line, and then it has been taken to another level, because, let me tell you something. A man in cornrows, I'm done, okay? Gimme a hamstring, and a cornrow, and I'm done. I'm done. I'm finished, it's over. Don't, I'm a leg, don't, okay? And cornrows, but if you cornrow and line it up, I'm confused.
57:24 Keke Palmer? That's what they be doing. It's like a baby hair before the line of the hair, whatever they got going on. But sometimes with the locks, I'm not mad. Sometimes with locks, I'm not mad. But I do wanna know why a preview hairline, why a preview hairline before the real hairdo.
57:38 Speaker 01 I am curious, and I, this is not a judgment, this is like a real conversation, I wanna understand it, do you know what I mean?
57:44 Keke Palmer? And they are serious about that.
57:45 Speaker 01 But like.
57:46 Keke Palmer? They are serious about that.
57:47 Speaker 01 But so serious.
57:49 Keke Palmer? And I never seen a woman say, "Ooh, I can't wait to see the preview hairline before the hairdo." Like, I've never seen, we don't get, we're not like, "Ooh." We're fine with it, but I'm like, let me, let me how they feel about us with some of this stuff.
58:01 Speaker 01 Okay, maybe, but this is, this is why I'm saying, this was, this was not a judgment conversation. This was a genuine dialogue, because I genuinely sometimes think, you know, with women's beauty standards, you're like, you can trace it back. And you can understand, I'm like, what was the? You know what I mean? Like I'm, this is what, this is what I'm bringing. Is it that I want you to know that I have a hairline?
58:23 Keke Palmer? That I got money, I got money and I pay for it.
58:26 Speaker 01 I got money and I'm clean.
58:27 Keke Palmer? I'm clean.
58:27 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay.
58:29 Keke Palmer? I think it has some, I think it does have something to do with like, I'm fresh.
58:32 Speaker 01 I'm fresh.
58:33 Keke Palmer? They definitely want you to know that.
58:34 Speaker 01 Like clean, it's like, it's like washing your shoelaces. No, shoelaces in the sink. Do you know what I mean? It's like shoelaces have a, I get it.
58:41 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
58:42 Speaker 01 But see, I have a lot more appreciation for it when I understand it.
58:45 Keke Palmer? Yes.
58:46 Speaker 01 And I, I, I felt like it was a conver, the conversation pre-conversation, the appetizer conversation I wanted to have with you. So that then I could bring it to a garçon and say, "Talk to me. I wanna know about the hairline." Like when you go get lined up, do you know what I mean?
59:02 Keke Palmer? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
59:03 Speaker 01 Mm-hmm, okay. But I do love a factory setting.
59:06 Keke Palmer? I like, I'm cool, look, it's gotta be right though. I do like when a brother kinda makes himself look, make himself look nice. But I don't really love when it's too programmed. So I'm with you on the program.
59:17 Speaker 01 You give me, you give me that cornrow un-cornrowed.
59:23 Speaker 01 And a hamstring.
59:26 Speaker 01 I'm weak. My knees are weak. I can't say no.
59:30 Keke Palmer? I'm screaming.
59:32 Speaker 01 You're screaming.
59:32 Keke Palmer? So wait a minute.
59:33 Speaker 01 I hope to be screaming.
59:36 Keke Palmer? And a lot of times that's not what happens.
59:37 Speaker 01 No, mm-mm, no it's not. But we can hope a girl, a girl can dream. A girl can keep walking in that direction. And you know what even better? A woman can too.
59:47 Keke Palmer? You know what I mean?
59:48 Speaker 01 You know what I mean? So yeah, I really, um, I just, I just had, I, one day I was sitting there. I can't remember who, what I was, oh, I was watching basketball and I was just like, huh.
59:59 Keke Palmer? What is that?
59:59 Speaker 01 Now, let me tell you. Basketball, they don't create the biggest hamstrings because they need to be agile.
1:00:07 Keke Palmer? What do you mean? What do you, okay.
1:00:11 Speaker 01 If you think of a hamstring, what sport do you think of?
1:00:13 Keke Palmer? Football. And they got hamstrings in their neck too. They're too buff.
1:00:18 Speaker 01 Okay, I didn't, I didn't say I wanted a neck, I didn't say I wanted a hamstring in the neck. I don't, I don't want, I do sometimes wonder when the neck comes out of the ears.
1:00:27 Keke Palmer? They're huge.
1:00:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, no, I'm not saying that.
1:00:29 Keke Palmer? Why, why, what's doing that?
1:00:30 Speaker 01 Well, think about it this way. If your head's gonna get knocked around like that, you better make that strong.
1:00:34 Keke Palmer? No, I was gonna say.
1:00:36 Speaker 01 Again, do you know what I mean? You gotta say it's safety. Safety, it's a safe, you know what, Kiki? Kiki, it's a safety neck.
1:00:44 Speaker 01 Oh my god.
1:00:48 Speaker 01 It's a safety net.
1:00:55 Keke Palmer? No, it's a safety net.
1:00:57 Speaker 01 First of all, what I would, you know what we're gonna do?
1:00:59 Keke Palmer? Oh my gosh, that gave me so much joy.
1:01:02 Speaker 01 Do you know what our next television show is?
1:01:04 Keke Palmer? What is it?
1:01:05 Speaker 01 First of all, you and I are gonna do a movie, that's for sure. But we need to do a TV show where you and I just commentate on sports. And we just sit there, we just need to sit there and do our ver- did you see the way he put that ball in the net?
1:01:21 Keke Palmer? It's gonna end up being so sexual. The way he dropped down on that floor, something was happening.
1:01:27 Speaker 01 Did you see that? Yeah, he fell on the floor. It's all wet down there.
1:01:33 Keke Palmer? And who's the ref? Who talks, who's the guy who talks too much?
1:01:37 Speaker 01 He talks to, and he's always wearing black. They don't have no other colors for him.
1:01:42 Speaker 01 Uh-uh, they need to get some more colors for those people.
1:01:45 Keke Palmer? That's good.
1:01:45 Speaker 01 I want a whistle like the ref. I'm gonna get out there. Kiki, we're totally-
1:01:49 Keke Palmer? I wanna yell at somebody.
1:01:50 Speaker 01 Exact- Kiki, we are totally doing that show.
1:01:54 Keke Palmer? I'm here for that.
1:01:55 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:01:55 Keke Palmer? Who do we got? I know some people we could call.
1:01:57 Speaker 01 Oh, we're gonna call them.
1:01:58 Keke Palmer? Come on.
1:02:00 Speaker 01 And generationally, I feel like we will tap all-
1:02:03 Keke Palmer? And we can even go back and do comparisons of old school and new school.
1:02:07 Speaker 01 Yes, and talk about them.
1:02:08 Keke Palmer? We can get into the-
1:02:09 Speaker 01 Oh my god.
1:02:10 Keke Palmer? That's so good. And who was really fine and why? Who looked like they got movement on that court.
1:02:14 Speaker 01 And by the way, did their fine from back then hold up now? Like, when you look at it, cuz I look back at some of my childhood crushes.
1:02:22 Keke Palmer? I didn't realize that Michael Jordan was fine.
1:02:25 Speaker 01 Oh, I knew.
1:02:26 Keke Palmer? I didn't realize when I look back now.
1:02:28 Speaker 01 No, no, it's unbelievable. Those early pictures and the clothes, I can't. It's absolutely crazy. It's literally heart-stopping.
1:02:33 Keke Palmer? Absolutely.
1:02:34 Speaker 01 It is heart-stopping.
1:02:35 Keke Palmer? He didn't have no business being like that.
1:02:38 Speaker 01 No, and that good?
1:02:40 Keke Palmer? And that good.
1:02:43 Keke Palmer? Michael Jordan. I would've been like, fuck. I go.
1:02:48 Speaker 01 Don't, yeah, like, just like, na na na na na na. We're at the game, we're at the game, we're at the game, like, literally.
1:02:55 Keke Palmer? Okay, I would've been up there.
1:02:57 Speaker 01 Wait, Kiki, you just did something that I need to understand because all the kids are doing this.
1:03:01 Keke Palmer? What?
1:03:02 Speaker 01 What is that?
1:03:03 Keke Palmer? It's just some freak crazy.
1:03:05 Speaker 01 Okay.
1:03:06 Keke Palmer? You're just trying to be like.
1:03:07 Speaker 01 It's, that is insane.
1:03:09 Keke Palmer? Just doing some, we be doing too much.
1:03:12 Speaker 01 Kiki, I mean, I'm gonna do it.
1:03:14 Keke Palmer? It reminds me of this back in the day.
1:03:15 Speaker 01 Yeah, exactly, okay.
1:03:16 Keke Palmer? That's bad though.
1:03:17 Speaker 01 Okay, but I'm gonna do.
1:03:21 Speaker 01 This is hilarious.
1:03:22 Keke Palmer? I don't know what it is, I don't know, I'm tired of the millennial world. It's exhausting me.
1:03:27 Speaker 01 Am I doing it right? Am I doing too much?
1:03:32 Keke Palmer? Safety neck. I'm not over it. Safety neck?
1:03:36 Speaker 01 This is brilliant. It's a safety neck.
1:03:39 Keke Palmer? You're good.
1:03:41 Speaker 01 That's gonna be the name of our show.
1:03:43 Keke Palmer? That's safety neck, safety neck, with Tracey Ellis Ross and Keke Palmer. I'm here for it beyond Billy.
1:03:48 Speaker 01 Oh my god.
1:03:49 Keke Palmer? Um, so it's only one thing that's left to do, which is to play a little game.
1:03:53 Speaker 01 Oh my god, give it.
1:03:54 Keke Palmer? Okay, the game is called.
1:03:55 Speaker 01 There was something behind me.
1:03:56 Keke Palmer? Oh, is it?
1:03:56 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:03:57 Keke Palmer? Oh yeah, there's a card for you.
1:03:58 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:03:58 Keke Palmer? It's called acting casual, okay, we're gonna give each other awkward dating scenarios and take turns acting out how we handle them.
1:04:05 Speaker 01 Okay.
1:04:06 Keke Palmer? While pretending we're completely fine. Okay, so I'll give you one first.
1:04:09 Speaker 01 Okay.
1:04:11 Keke Palmer? You're trying to be mysterious and sexy on a date, but you think you have food in your teeth.
1:04:15 Speaker 01 Okay.
1:04:19 Keke Palmer? I'm gonna act it out.
1:04:19 Speaker 01 Yep.
1:04:29 Speaker 01 No, I love that, do you want another drink?
1:04:32 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
1:04:38 Keke Palmer? Because I mean, what else you can do?
1:04:46 Speaker 01 I had something in my tooth.
1:04:49 Keke Palmer? Who doesn't love that? Who doesn't love that? I'm in love.
1:04:53 Speaker 01 Okay, okay.
1:04:54 Keke Palmer? Okay, where am I gonna get now?
1:04:57 Speaker 01 Oh, I'm just gonna act it out for you. Uh, so, I'm gonna do something and I want you to not get awkward.
1:05:07 Keke Palmer? Okay.
1:05:11 Speaker 01 You have really amazing eyes.
1:05:15 Keke Palmer? Thank you.
1:05:16 Speaker 01 Oh, you did not get awkward.
1:05:18 Keke Palmer? Well, cuz why-
1:05:19 Speaker 01 In a good way.
1:05:20 Keke Palmer? That's so nice to say to me.
1:05:21 Speaker 01 He compliments you and you're trying to receive it without getting awkward. You did great.
1:05:24 Keke Palmer? Oh my gosh!
1:05:25 Speaker 01 You did great. Okay, you did great. Like you, uh, you, I, did the Oscar come in?
1:05:32 Speaker 01 I don't know where it is. Oh, well.
1:05:35 Keke Palmer? Okay, wait a minute, okay. So I'm gonna ask you something.
1:05:37 Speaker 01 Okay.
1:05:38 Keke Palmer? I'm gonna say something to you.
1:05:39 Speaker 01 Okay.
1:05:40 Keke Palmer? And you're gonna pretend that you're not disappointed.
1:05:43 Speaker 01 Okay.
1:05:44 Keke Palmer? Uh-oh.
1:05:46 Speaker 01 I do not have a poker face. Okay.
1:05:48 Keke Palmer? Yeah, yeah, I, I, I feel exactly what you're saying from, but to be honest with you, I'm not really looking for anything serious.
1:05:58 Speaker 01 Me neither.
1:06:03 Speaker 01 I thought we were just gonna have sex.
1:06:10 Speaker 01 I don't know. Did I, did I play it off well? That was excellent. Yo, she said, "Me either."
1:06:22 Speaker 01 As my insides are crushed.
1:06:24 Keke Palmer? Crushed.
1:06:24 Speaker 01 As you ride with your car over my heart.
1:06:27 Keke Palmer? No, seriously.
1:06:28 Speaker 01 And getting stuck in your tire.
1:06:30 Keke Palmer? Like, literally.
1:06:31 Speaker 01 Like, why are we here?
1:06:32 Keke Palmer? And it's like, what, what would be the proper response? Like, if I, if I wasn't trying to be on my best behavior, would it be or would it be, "Wow, that really has hurt me, but I don't think I can really be around you too much, but I've had a great time"? Like, what do you then say?
1:06:46 Speaker 01 I don't know. And why are you telling me right now?
1:06:48 Keke Palmer? Yeah.
1:06:49 Speaker 01 We're still on the date.
1:06:51 Keke Palmer? Oh.
1:06:51 Speaker 01 Oh, here, wait, try it again, try it again.
1:06:54 Keke Palmer? I've always have a really great time with you and I feel everything you're saying, but I'm not really looking for anything serious right now.
1:07:03 Speaker 01 Are you still gonna pay?
1:07:06 Speaker 01 How was that?
1:07:07 Keke Palmer? Exactly.
1:07:08 Speaker 01 Okay, I got another one, I got another one.
1:07:10 Keke Palmer? Okay, okay. Yeah, I've, uh, you know, I love everything always that happened with us, but, you know, just to be honest, I'm not looking for anything serious.
1:07:17 Speaker 01 I'm glad you said that, because you have a friend that I really want you to set me up with.
1:07:24 Keke Palmer? Now, that's the [BLEEP] one.
1:07:27 Speaker 01 I mean, oh my god, Kiki.
1:07:29 Keke Palmer? That's the one. Oh my gosh, because I was starting to realize that I chose the wrong person.
1:07:34 Speaker 01 You know what I mean? Like, thank god you said it, now I don't have to say it.
1:07:36 Keke Palmer? You're the least.
1:07:37 Speaker 01 Okay, uh... Okay, I'm gonna text you, I text you during your date.
1:07:43 Keke Palmer? Okay.
1:07:43 Speaker 01 He's talking, as in me, and, um, I ask you how it's going.
1:07:48 Keke Palmer? Okay.
1:07:49 Speaker 01 What would you say in the text? You gonna text me right now?
1:07:51 Keke Palmer? No, I thought I was playing it out, like, so I'm texting already?
1:07:54 Speaker 01 Text me right now!
1:07:55 Keke Palmer? I'm ready, I'm gonna say it, I'm gonna say it. Okay, so you, and you're the guy, you gonna say something to him?
1:08:00 Speaker 01 So yeah, I was, I really loved the way, you know, when they were playing in the game, those guys all made the baskets. That was my favorite part of the game. And I'm glad you went with me, and I loved what you were wearing. I wish you'd worn heels, though.
1:08:16 Keke Palmer? Oh my gosh.
1:08:17 Speaker 01 Yeah?
1:08:18 Keke Palmer? Thank you, boo.
1:08:29 Keke Palmer? This [BLEEP] crazy, I'm ready to go home.
1:08:30 Speaker 01 She said, "He ain't saying [BLEEP]."
1:08:33 Keke Palmer? I wanna go home.
1:08:37 Keke Palmer? Because, that's how they be, though, sometimes. Every now and then, you get a real good conversation, but sometimes they'll be saying [BLEEP].
1:08:44 Speaker 01 You know what I love?
1:08:45 Keke Palmer? What we talking about?
1:08:45 Speaker 01 I love a man who gives good text.
1:08:47 Keke Palmer? Oh my gosh.
1:08:48 Speaker 01 Text banter is really fun.
1:08:50 Keke Palmer? I like text banter, too. I like also, like, keep it spicy, keep it fun, like, sometimes I do think I have this effect where it's like, I become a man's journal entry.
1:09:01 Speaker 01 No, that's too much.
1:09:02 Keke Palmer? I don't want that.
1:09:03 Speaker 01 Especially in the first week.
1:09:04 Keke Palmer? It's too much. Just give me sex, kitten. You know what I mean? Let me be Jackie Harry.
1:09:09 Speaker 01 No. No, we, you know.
1:09:12 Keke Palmer? I'm tired of it.
1:09:15 Speaker 01 I'm so dead right now. I'm so dead right now.
1:09:19 Keke Palmer? Alright, well, that's my last one. Yeah, like, I wanna be.
1:09:25 Keke Palmer? I can get a little, but you gotta give me a chance. You can't keep just opening up to me. I know I'm easy to talk to.
1:09:32 Speaker 01 Yeah, no, I got you.
1:09:32 Keke Palmer? But open up my legs. Then we can get into something.
1:09:39 Speaker 01 That's so interesting. Also, kissing is really underrated.
1:09:43 Keke Palmer? My gosh.
1:09:44 Speaker 01 My god, if you can't do it, just walk away.
1:09:47 Keke Palmer? Literally kiss, kiss, kiss. More kissing, less just like.
1:09:53 Speaker 01 What are you doing right now, Kiki?
1:09:59 Speaker 01 Kiki, more kissing, less, less. No, Kiki, no. No. That's for year two, honey.
1:10:08 Speaker 01 With a consent form.
1:10:10 Keke Palmer? My god, that is so funny. Yeah, I feel like when there's no, when there's no kissing, there's no build up.
1:10:17 Speaker 01 Agree.
1:10:18 Keke Palmer? We need a build up.
1:10:19 Speaker 01 I mean, it's, that's, you know. I mean, we could talk.
1:10:22 Keke Palmer? It's a lost art, the foreplay.
1:10:25 Speaker 01 I think it is, and I, and I, conversation is foreplay.
1:10:29 Keke Palmer? And that's the biggest one.
1:10:30 Speaker 01 I mean, it isn't for everybody. It is for me.
1:10:32 Keke Palmer? You know what I mean?
1:10:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:10:33 Keke Palmer? It is for me too, because.
1:10:34 Speaker 01 Wait, what is my love language? First of all, I love consistent connection. So what would that be as a love language?
1:10:40 Keke Palmer? Well, it could be anything. It could be sending you pictures. It could be texting. It could be calling.
1:10:44 Speaker 01 I'm not a gift person.
1:10:46 Keke Palmer? Yeah, I don't care much about a gift. For me, quality time. Be intentional about spending time with me. And physical touch.
1:10:53 Speaker 01 I want quality time.
1:10:55 Keke Palmer? I want you to be like, I figured that it would be, I don't know what you're up to, but this weekend, if you wanna go away and just like me and you.
1:11:00 Speaker 01 Plans. Is that quality time?
1:11:02 Keke Palmer? Yes, baby, planning the time with your girl.
1:11:05 Speaker 01 Yes, I love this. I love this. And it's the smallest things.
1:11:10 Keke Palmer? I just wanna be in a room with you.
1:11:11 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:11:12 Keke Palmer? Alone.
1:11:17 Keke Palmer? And then I'm ready to go. It doesn't last for two, you know. In a room with you, alone. Two days max and then I have [BLEEP] to do. And then I'll be back for season two.
1:11:29 Speaker 01 Oh my god, this is so interesting. Yes, gotta map that out.
1:11:32 Keke Palmer? Yeah, yeah. Anyway, so, Kiki neck.
1:11:36 Speaker 01 Kiki, this was the most enjoyable conversation I've had since dinner.
1:11:40 Keke Palmer? You're always the best. I mean, it's, it's literally like, a big hug, a nice drink.
1:11:48 Speaker 01 I mean, you are the best.
1:11:50 Keke Palmer? You are the best.
1:11:51 Speaker 01 The world is lucky we have you.
1:11:53 Keke Palmer? Ditto. I'm like obsessed with you, but you already know that.
1:11:58 Speaker 01 Amazing. That was so fun.
1:12:06 Keke Palmer? This conversation is a reminder that a full life doesn't have to follow one timeline or fit one definition. So if you take anything from this episode, let it be this. Your life is not on hold. Trust the life you're building. Trust the love that's already around you. And trust yourself enough to know that your path doesn't have to look like anybody else's. Baby, this is Keke Palmer.
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