Pod Insights Aspire with Emma Grede Gary Vaynerchuk: Why Truth, Humility, and Kindness Will Become Your Next Superpower About this episode Gary Vaynerchuk has spent the last two decades understanding where culture and consumer behavior were headed long before the rest of the world caught up. He was early to YouTube, Twitter, TikTok, creator commerce, and live shopping. But this conversation is about more than algorithms and internet trends.
In this episode, Gary sits down with Emma to talk about the real reason most people stay stuck: fear. Fear of judgment. Fear of failure. Fear of what other people will think if they try something new.
Together, they unpack the insecurity driving modern ambition, why so many successful people are still deeply unhappy, and why Gary believes we are entering a cultural shift where kindness, reputation, and emotional intelligence will matter more than ever.
Gary shares:
Why most people are living for opinions they don’t even respect
The hidden insecurity driving high achievement
Why reputation compounds faster than money
What social media actually revealed about human behavior
How parents unintentionally destroy confidence in their kids
Why proximity and visibility still matter in the AI era
The business opportunities Gary believes people are still underestimating
Why “nice guys finish first”
What would change in your life if you stopped making decisions based on other people’s expectations of you? Drop it in the comments — we’re reading. And subscribe to Aspire with Emma Grede so you don’t miss what’s next.
We'd love to hear what you think. Please take this survey to help us make the show better for you: emmagrede.com/survey http://emmagrede.com/survey
Transcript 12,489 words · 8 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:09 Emma Grede? So, something I've noticed lately, and it's been bothering me. The loudest voices in the room aren't necessarily the smartest ones anymore. They might still get the views, they're getting them by being mean, by tearing other people down and by being the most aggressive person on the timeline. And honestly, I think a lot of us are quietly exhausted by it. My guest today thinks this era is actually about to end. He thinks the next five years are going to belong to people who are kind and have humility, those who brought reputations worth defending. And he's not saying it because it sounds nice. He's saying it because he watches what's happening online for a living, and he can see the cracks forming. Gary Vaynerchuk has been telling people what's about to happen on the internet about three years before they're ready to hear it. Social, creators, attention, AI.
0:53 Emma Grede? He was early to YouTube, Twitter, TikTok, and now live shopping, which we get into today. He's been right enough times that the people that write him off, the loudest, are usually quoting him a year later. He runs VaynerMedia, advises some of the biggest companies in the world, and has built a media empire that employs thousands of people and a content engine that produces hundreds of pieces a week. Now, I know what some of you are thinking. You've heard Gary on other podcasts, you've seen the clips, but that is not the conversation that I wanted to have. I wanted to sit down with one of the few operators who's actually paying attention to what's coming culturally, not just what's happening and coming commercially. Listen for what he says about insecurity being the engine that gets you started
1:38 Emma Grede? and why it can't be the engine that keeps you running. Listen for what he says about reputation being the most underpriced asset on earth right now. Listen for the line about fear. I think it's the most accurate description of why most of us don't move that I've heard in a long time. And listen for what he told me he'd do if he was starting from zero today. That's the part you'll want to write down.
2:02 Speaker 01 Our presenting sponsor today is Anthropic, the team behind Claude. Anthropic is a research company first, built to make sure the transition to powerful AI goes well. When they launched Claude in 2023, its first users were businesses. Since then, it's been tested inside leading startups and enterprises. At DoorDash, a code migration that would have taken four engineers months to complete took one person three weeks. At Carvana, one team used to hunt through old tickets and code to answer a question. With Claude, they get answers 65% faster. And at Rakuten, engineers have achieved 99.9% accuracy on tough coding jobs using Claude. Today, nine Fortune 10 companies run on Claude
2:47 Speaker 01 for the work they want to get right. And these businesses are helping Anthropic shape what comes next. Build your business with support from Claude at claude.ai/odyssey.
3:02 Emma Grede? Gary, welcome to Aspire. Thank you for having me. Well, I'm very, very excited about our conversation. And I feel like with you and I, the more research I did about you, the more similarities that I found you and I had, which is kind of unsurprising. But there's something that you said that really got me. And you said, and I believe this so deeply, you said, "Everyone's got something, and every person is carrying some version of hardship. But there's a choice, and we all have a choice, whether you weaponize it as an excuse or you use it as a foundation for something, which you and I clearly have in our life." But I kind of wanted to start at this point because I feel like so many people believe the stories that they tell themselves, the realities of the existence that they're born into. And I wanted to ask you,
3:46 Emma Grede? what you really believe is the one thing that holds people back the most? Insecurity.
3:52 Speaker 02 You know, it's most basic fear. It's why so many people weaponize it. It can control people. So I think the number one reason people are held back is they worry about the judgment of others because they're insecure. They're trapped. They're scared to fail in front of others. And they don't have self-belief because it was imposed inside of them through circumstance or someone. And, you know, I'm very motivated by putting out content and talking about it because every day people get unlocked, whether through therapy or meditation or a podcast or a friend or the serendipity of meeting a college roommate. There's just a million ways people can get out, but it is always words that start the
4:37 Speaker 02 process of action. But the answer to the question directly is insecurity.
4:41 Emma Grede? So what do you say to people that are living with real fear, like fear that comes from a place of real concern, perhaps that they don't have the circumstances that are best, but they really want to move forward in their life? Like, how have you, in your own life, been able to do that?
4:58 Speaker 02 You know, I don't really use myself as a comp. You know, I'm the byproduct of an extraordinary mother and really, you know, humble beginnings, which is like the perfect formula for world domination.
5:10 Emma Grede? Yes, it is. But if you experience fear, you must have at some point.
5:14 Speaker 02 Oh, my God. My sister and I were driving here and we were just laughing that I got all my fear out of the way as a kid. I was ultimately mostly scared about my parents dying. It was a big, real big track in my life. My mom lost her mom at five. My father lost his dad at 15.
5:31 Emma Grede? So it was a legitimate fear?
5:32 Speaker 02 It was a legitimate fear. It was in the air.
5:34 Emma Grede? Yeah.
5:34 Speaker 02 My mom did almost everything right, but my mom would say things like, you know, if anything happens to us, you got to take care of your sister and then later my brother. I did so much fear in my youth. And such real important shit that I think by the time I got to eighteen, I'm like, oh, we're cooking now. Like, I'm not scared of shit.
5:52 Emma Grede? I mean, that's definitely something we've got in common, and I talk about that a lot. I feel like I went through so much stuff that was actually scary as I've come up in my professional life. Stuff that would frighten the life out of somebody like.
6:03 Speaker 02 It's minor leagues.
6:04 Emma Grede? Losing money. I'm just like, that's not real. Like, that's not actually something to be really scared about.
6:09 Speaker 02 That's right.
6:09 Emma Grede? But one of the things I've heard you talk about a lot is whether or not everyone should be an entrepreneur. I think that what holds people back so much is the fear. So how do you even begin to work through that in your own mind as a person? Whether you should branch out, whether you should be really entrepreneurial, when the stories and the fear is really what's holding you back?
6:29 Speaker 02 By having a relationship with what's really important in life. I think a lot of people listening right this second know they want to take some sort of risk, but they are not willing to live less bougie if it doesn't work out. They're not willing to fly coach instead of front in the first class. It's almost like we've created massive taboo of taking a step back from a materialistic or social status that we're willing to not live our lives on what we want to actually do just to keep up with the Joneses. Normally to impress people that we don't even really like. When you wrap up, when you start going to those eighties, nineties, hundreds.
7:13 Emma Grede? Oh, yeah.
7:14 Speaker 02 You're not going to be happy that you didn't take those risks. You're going to regret it, and I think regret is a very devastating energy.
7:24 Emma Grede? We all have regrets, and I think the biggest regret is just when you don't try something, right? When you actually allow the fear to hold you back. How have you been able, as you've gone through your career, to get more and more comfortable with taking risks? Like, what does that actually look like?
7:38 Speaker 02 You know, I'm just so uncomfortably curious of how good I am at the game. It drives me, whereas I've been in a place in my life now where I've spent a lot of time with a lot of people that are really at the tippy top. I was stunned when I got there.
7:53 Emma Grede? In what way?
7:54 Speaker 02 I was like, oh, shit, they're insecure. I didn't realize that insecurity was the more prevalent fuel to get to the top. I thought, you know, I was such a cocoon of myself and my environment. I thought it was confidence. I thought, of course, you can get to the top with confidence, right? Because you're strong. What I didn't realize was insecurity gets you there as well. What I didn't know then, that I try to talk a lot about now, is insecurity gets you there, but it's also the reason you don't stay there, right?
8:27 Emma Grede? Yeah.
8:27 Speaker 02 You and I have been very fortunate to be in enough circles to know, like, Jesus Christ, some of the people that are the most admired people in the world are struggling. They're genuinely actually insecure. They're no different than others. What I've observed the last 15 years is it's hard to stay at the top of whatever you do through insecurity because you're constantly pulling from a very challenging energy versus what I have, which is I had content before I started, which did not take away any of my ambition.
9:01 Emma Grede? So what was it that drove you then?
9:03 Speaker 02 Want to make my parents proud. The only other thing I've ever said, which is true, is do you know, like, on porches, they have that zapper with the light and the bugs all go there and they get zapped?
9:14 Emma Grede? Oh, yeah.
9:14 Speaker 02 I'm that bug. What the fuck was I doing when I was seven, knocking on doors in the summer, washing cars? It wasn't about the money. It's not like I wanted to buy. It's I don't even really buy shit. I like having money for optionality and time, but I don't want stuff.
9:31 Emma Grede? So how do you actually figure out, because I do think that there is a whole audience of people that are listening, and I really believe that you can be entrepreneurial in a corporate environment, in like a regular job, but how do you figure out if the way that we're talking about entrepreneurialism now, starting a business, being a founder, is actually for you or not?
9:50 Speaker 02 Jumping in the pool.
9:52 Emma Grede? Nothing to it but to do it?
9:53 Speaker 02 There's no weird test. There's no bullshit report.
9:56 Emma Grede? Isn't that what's so hard for people to understand, though? You've just got to do it.
10:00 Speaker 02 Yes, because they're scared to fail. But if you're scared to fail, it's already the first tell that you're not an entrepreneur.
10:07 Emma Grede? I think it's really important to contextualize, like, how important it is to eclipse fear and to have, like, moments of failure. Like, I think of all of the sort of biggest moments of... Almost like Lyft, where I've actually been able to propel myself forward. They've come after something has gone really wrong. Do you have those moments in your life, in your career, where you've actually failed and something really great has come out of it?
10:33 Speaker 02 Mine's a little different, and I hope some people can associate with this. I just couldn't hear anything for so long. I'm fifty now. I don't think I've heard anybody else besides myself for four decades.
10:47 Emma Grede? What, you mean in your own head?
10:49 Speaker 02 Yes.
10:49 Emma Grede? You've been able to tune everyone out?
10:52 Speaker 02 Everyone, including my, even the ultimate, my mother, who's everything to me.
10:56 Emma Grede? How?
10:57 Speaker 02 I'm not sure.
10:58 Emma Grede? Well, because, listen, I mean, you have put yourself in situations, you know, you're so huge on social, you have non-stop messaging, rhetoric, criticism, fantastic, you know, critique coming your way. How have you been able to do that?
11:12 Speaker 02 My best guess at this moment in my life is some sort of, almost probably not even proper, over-indexing on empathy.
11:23 Emma Grede? Please explain that to me.
11:25 Speaker 02 Anytime someone shits on me, whether it was a teacher in fourth grade, or a classmate, or JohnnyPants47 on Instagram, I just know that if they're saying something bad about me, it's because they're in a bad place.
11:37 Emma Grede? And how quickly do you go there? Like, immediately as you get in the shit? Really?
11:42 Speaker 02 And I got there.
11:43 Emma Grede? Oh, that takes some training.
11:44 Speaker 02 And I got, again, this is why I think about natural DNA a lot.
11:48 Emma Grede? Yeah, yeah, for sure.
11:49 Speaker 02 You know how there's like tennis players sometimes at fourteen in the women's side? They can win Wimbledon at fourteen. That's just natural fucking talent. They put in some work, obviously, since they were six or five, but I think just naturally. And I get this from my mom. My mom also does not give a fuck. So I obviously have that, but like, maybe it was the, you know, the market giving me validation. You know, by the time I was ten and eleven, I was really slinging that lemonade and that shovel and, and those baseball cards. Like, I was getting so much positive affirmation from the market. Somewhere between fourth and fifth grade, my head just went into some. Really fucking fantastic place that has been the foundation of my success and joy,
12:32 Speaker 02 which is completely predicated on simplicity, which is like, nothing matters, I'm gonna do my thing, be a good person, see ya.
12:38 Emma Grede? So how do you get out of that? How do you give less fucks? Because I do actually believe it's a really important part of being successful.
12:47 Speaker 02 I think it's the punchline.
12:49 Emma Grede? That you start to drown out, right?
12:50 Speaker 02 Yes.
12:50 Emma Grede? Like a hundred percent.
12:52 Speaker 02 Yes.
12:52 Emma Grede? I would say that I've become infinitely more successful, the less that I have listened to other people.
12:58 Speaker 02 And more importantly, and I need to hear, I need people to hear this, because a lot of people are listening right now and they're saying to themselves, they're like, I'm successful, but I give a lot of fucks. And what I say to them is like, yeah, for now, but I'm telling you it's gonna be hard to keep paddling and staying above water. When you get to that place, you're on the fucking, I don't know, is it the Dead Sea where you can just lay in your float?
13:17 Emma Grede? Totally.
13:18 Speaker 02 That's where you try to go.
13:19 Emma Grede? Or maybe you know you launch a book and you get a lot of criticism, something like that, like either or.
13:23 Speaker 02 You know, you're putting yourself out there, like your journey right now, and as you continue to ascend, it just comes with the territory. It's what the world does. We build up Britney, then we tear down Britney, and then we want Britney back, bitch. Like, it's just what we do, it's what we do, it's what society does.
13:40 Emma Grede? There's something else I wanna talk to you about, which is, you've been talking about so much, which is the decline of accountability. And I wanna really understand like what you think people are getting wrong right now when it comes to responsibility? Because I think it kind of links together with this conversation.
13:53 Speaker 02 They're believing politicians.
13:54 Emma Grede? Say more.
13:55 Speaker 02 Both the left and the right in every country in the world is selling the same thing. This is fucking you up and I am gonna save you.
14:03 Emma Grede? And you believe that people just eating that up, it comes from a lack of responsibility?
14:07 Speaker 02 Well, let's play it out.
14:08 Emma Grede? Yeah.
14:08 Speaker 02 You're unhappy, your life sucks.
14:10 Emma Grede? Yeah.
14:11 Speaker 02 Is it more fun to think it's the immigrants' faults, or billionaires' faults, or corporations' faults? Or is it more fun to think it's your fault?
14:19 Emma Grede? Well, I just wrote a book called Start With Yourself, and one of the things that I talk about is my upbringing was exactly like that. I was surrounded by people that blamed everyone for everything. And I watched an Oprah episode and it was about like radical self-responsibility. And I was like, that just sounds better. That just sounds like it makes more sense. Why do we struggle so much with that though? And why are people being so swept up? Like, why is there such a lack of responsibility for themselves?
14:44 Speaker 02 Insecurity.
14:45 Emma Grede? Do you think it all comes back down to insecurity?
14:47 Speaker 02 I believe life is binary. Pure confidence. Not ego. Ego is insecurity with makeup on. Confidence, insecurity. Show me where someone sits. I'll tell you everything about their life. And I believe modern parenting in the last 30 years has, out of good intent. This is a very important part of the sentence. At a very good intent, created more insecurity than historically. And we're feeling the effects of that as well.
15:17 Emma Grede? Why do you talk on this so much, though? I find it so interesting because you do, like, you come back to this point a lot.
15:23 Speaker 02 I see it.
15:23 Emma Grede? Yeah.
15:24 Speaker 02 Because I'm on the receiving end. I'm watching it. I wasn't a kid who had this. I'm not doing any focus group of one. Remember, I've been a public figure for a long time on social. And I talk about these things for a long time. I'm on the receiving end of literally millions of direct messages that are private at this point. And I analyze it.
15:45 Emma Grede? How much of that do you see?
15:46 Speaker 02 An extraordinary amount, especially in the last two years. Now, we're taking all those messages and we're putting them into large language models and analyzing sentiment.
15:53 Emma Grede? Ah, so you're actually looking at everything and understanding.
15:57 Speaker 02 On a flight to LA like this.
15:59 Emma Grede? Yes, sit there.
16:00 Speaker 02 And by the way, I still like to do it. Because I'm a little old school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I still do it a lot, actually.
16:05 Emma Grede? Yeah.
16:05 Speaker 02 But I have much cleaner data. And so it's very clear to me that stripping competitiveness out of a child, demonizing competitiveness, demonizing merit. Like, she, who's more talented and worked hard and won the soccer match, should be treated the same way you and I should be treated. Who did dick shit and gossiped on the bench and didn't give a fuck. What world is that going to play out well?
16:32 Emma Grede? Mm hmm.
16:33 Speaker 02 That's why I talk about it. Because I think it's led to incredible amounts of pain. And it seems so small. By the way, whoever invented it, whoever, whatever woman or man came up with, like, let's give everyone a trophy, came from a good place.
16:52 Speaker 03 Do you ever wish you could ask nosey questions about people's money?
16:55 Speaker 04 I have $729.71 in my bank account.
16:59 Speaker 05 We bought a $1.3 million house on a $350,000 income.
17:04 Speaker 03 On the podcast What We Spend, we ask those questions. It's a show about money and all the feelings that come with spending it.
17:10 Speaker 06 I want to be the kind of person who can just take care of the people in my life.
17:15 Speaker 03 Listen to What We Spend, an Odyssey original, available now wherever you get your podcasts.
17:26 Emma Grede? What I'm interested in is that what are you seeing in those children that are coming out of college that bothers you so much that you want to speak on it?
17:34 Speaker 02 That their parents tricked them into thinking like that work ethic and like that real life isn't real. Their expectations got whacked.
17:44 Emma Grede? But I do think it's an important subject to talk about because where we are right now, we are, we really believe that there's so much danger, right? Whether it's social, whether it's society at large, we believe that we are there to protect our children. So you're right, it comes from a really good place. And at the same time, what we're saying is that we're in a market and a time right now where we are actually a little bit unsure of what we're even growing our kids up to do. You know, what is going to be left for them? So I understand where there's this fear around parenting. So I, I get it. I think that it's important to talk about like, what can we do? What is the way to behave?
18:21 Speaker 02 Build confidence and confidence can only come from what they do.
18:25 Emma Grede? Not what you do for them. It's that simple, right?
18:27 Speaker 02 It's really that simple.
18:28 Emma Grede? It's really that simple.
18:28 Speaker 02 And it's really like, it's that simple and it's fucking hard.
18:32 Emma Grede? Yeah, no, I, I agree. It's hard because it's hard to dial back, especially when what you're seeing all around you. And then you imagine that if you don't do that for your kids, you're somehow letting them down. So I think it's a really, it's just an important conversation to have. Like, what are you optimizing for?
18:46 Speaker 02 And listen, it's nuanced, right? Parents have become interested in being friends with their children versus being friendly. And that's a nuance and like, and then every parent comes up with an excuse. We talk like this for five minutes and there's a parent on the treadmill, walking their dog, driving, and they're coming up actively right now with the excuse of why their kid's situation is different.
19:07 Emma Grede? Yeah.
19:07 Speaker 02 But you don't get it, my son is X, or you don't get it, my daughter went through Y. And all of that is like so understandable because I do this, like, you know, it's so easy to talk about it in the abstract. I'm sitting here on a podcast, so I can talk about it in the macro. When it gets to those little fuckers that you love more than breathing. You're like, it's so hard, but it is the answer.
19:27 Emma Grede? It is the answer.
19:28 Speaker 02 It is the answer.
19:28 Emma Grede? Listen, I couldn't agree with you anymore. What do you see when you look around at your peers, at the people you know have been successful, all the ambitious people in front of you? What has been running underneath their ambition? What is it that those people all have in common?
19:43 Speaker 02 I think a weird one no one talks about is curiosity. I think a lot of my most successful friends I associate with on my artistic side, they're just really artists, they're curious, they're like, what if I did this? Like, there's a really romantic part of it.
20:00 Emma Grede? Yeah.
20:01 Speaker 02 Some of it's silly, like early youth, just like they want stuff, they just want status.
20:06 Emma Grede? That was maybe a bit of me.
20:07 Speaker 02 Yeah, I mean, that's just like normal.
20:09 Emma Grede? It was that simple.
20:10 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's not super complicated, like they put, they put a specific person on a pedestal and they want to emulate.
20:16 Emma Grede? That'll work to, to a degree.
20:18 Speaker 02 Yeah.
20:18 Emma Grede? It works to get you so far.
20:20 Speaker 02 Some people come from beautiful places, like wanting to get their mom out. And then I think there's a group of us that are similar to what I said about myself as well, which is like, you don't even know, you're just seeing the light and you just can't, it's like you're fucking, like, I don't know, like, I can't help it. Like, this is just what I want to do. I want to create, it's, Alex can give you a story on this. I was once in Turks and Caicos, I watched this kid once build the craziest sandcastle situation I've ever seen in my life. Worked on it for seven hours. This eight-year-old was a fucking dog. He just built it, built it, built it. I was like just listening to music, watching him for like eight hours. Out of nowhere, like the, you know, out of nowhere, out of everywhere, like the day comes to
21:04 Speaker 02 an end and his parents call him to go clean up because they're gonna go to dinner at the resort. John, I don't remember his name, Johnny, we're going. This kid stands up, takes a good look, no phone, no anything, no bringing anyone over, takes a good look at this masterpiece, and then bashes it to the ground and leaves. Yes, he does. And I swear to God, I looked at that kid and I'm like, that's me. Wow. That's me. I am not doing any of this Gary, you would be flabbergasted how detached I am from the Gary Vee brand, from my professional career, from all of it. Like, if I was a musician, I would live in the studio. Yes, I would tour and all
21:45 Speaker 02 that stuff because I'd have to do it to, for the game. But my, I'm just in my lab. This kid was just in his bag on this sandcastle. He didn't need someone to see it. He didn't need everyone to be like, oh, my God. He didn't need to take a photo to show everybody. He just built it, and that was enough. And he tore the whole thing down.
22:06 Emma Grede? I feel like you wear the, I don't care, like it's a badge of honor. Why is that so important?
22:12 Speaker 02 It's actually, it's actually different, Emma. It's, it doesn't come from a place of like audacity or I'm, it comes from a place of simplicity. I care deeply. I just care about myself. I care about me. But in that selfishness, it allows me to be incredibly selfless. It allows me to do such incredible things for my family and the people around me and the people I'm close to and my nonprofits and blah, blah, blah. But like, I don't, yeah, it's not like I'm cool guy and like fuck you, two fingers up and like, I don't give a fuck what you all think. It's really from a much more loving place. It's just, I'm quiet in my little place. I'm out there a lot because I have great joy of the deposits I'm leaving in the world. I feel a sense of responsibility even.
22:56 Emma Grede? You do?
22:57 Speaker 02 Yeah, I do. Because I think a lot of people are putting out dog shit. I think there's a lot of confusion out there. I feel that the worst sentence on earth is nice guys finish last.
23:08 Speaker 02 I think it has been detrimental to society. And I take on the responsibility and the judgment of telling the truth, which is nice guys finish first.
23:17 Emma Grede? It's very important for you to be nice, right?
23:19 Speaker 02 It is the only thing I care about. Yeah, nothing drives me more crazy when pretty girls are on social media telling all these boys that they want to hook up with, that if you're nice, it gives them the ick. It makes it, the whole thing's fucked. It's also not true.
23:34 Emma Grede? Yeah, no, I mean, listen, I married a nice guy. I can't even imagine, I can't imagine anything else. Like, and I actually really, when, when, when I think about attributes in business, it really befits you to be nice. It's really good for you to be nice.
23:49 Speaker 02 Especially if you're playing long.
23:50 Emma Grede? Well, of course. I mean, what are we trying to be like?
23:52 Speaker 02 I'm playing long.
23:53 Emma Grede? Yes, you have to.
23:54 Speaker 02 You know, and so if you're a marathon runner, not a sprinter, if you're trying to make a quick bag and get a private plane and go smoke weed on an island and like do all this frivolous shit.
24:04 Emma Grede? Yeah, you can be an asshole.
24:04 Speaker 02 Go fast.
24:05 Emma Grede? Yeah.
24:05 Speaker 02 Fuck it, nice, knock yourself out. It's not what I'm trying to do.
24:08 Emma Grede? So what do you think the most important attribute is? Because when you, we were talking about like skill, like when you think about curiosity. But what is important?
24:18 Speaker 02 Resilience, tenacity, curiosity, patience. Self-awareness is number one. If you don't know yourself, you're finished.
24:29 Emma Grede? How do people get to know themselves though? Because I really think those of us that have like a natural inclination to learn more about ourselves, to understand our habits, our patterns, what makes us us. How do you cultivate self-awareness? Because it is one of the most important things.
24:45 Speaker 02 Putting the people around you in a position to tell you the truth without ramification.
24:50 Emma Grede? Yeah, which is harder the more successful you get.
24:53 Speaker 02 Or not.
24:54 Emma Grede? Well, it depends on the type of person you are. I think people are less likely to tell you the truth when you are successful. I had a, a particular moment this morning where I had an opportunity to tell someone who had been an asshole.
25:05 Speaker 02 Yes.
25:05 Emma Grede? That she had been an asshole.
25:07 Speaker 02 Yes.
25:07 Emma Grede? In a nice, private way, not, not, not loud, but it was like, it was important to me to say, you know, she was very confused by something she'd done. And I was like, no, you are an asshole.
25:16 Speaker 02 Clearly you care about that person.
25:17 Emma Grede? I care, and that is the only reason. Because if I didn't care, I wouldn't care to say anything. I'd be like, go on with your asshole self. But it is really important and people find it really hard to do that.
25:29 Speaker 02 Let me say something that I hope helps somebody. Most people have shut down their intuition a long time ago. What that means is most people then also realize that you can trick people. By not saying it, by keeping it private, by the reverse, by being a hypocrite, by pointing fingers first. There's a lot of ways to trick. I would tell the people that are listening, the people you're tricking are not the people that you should be focusing on. While you're tricking the masses, the top 5% of emotional intelligence and most emotionally intelligent people, you're exposing yourself to them. You're losing with the winning audience, excuse me, and you're winning with the losing audience.
26:11 Speaker 02 And so I would say this, humility is the great superpower of the truly unstoppable. I love losing. I love saying I'm sorry. I love being wrong. And I think that's a common trait for people that are really doing it. Like really doing, not optically doing it. And I would challenge everyone, you're not succeeding by disguising it. You'll only succeed by leaning into it. So I would say self-awareness is garnered with humility, with making the people around you that work for you feel safe. It's crazy what my employees say to me.
26:50 Emma Grede? Well, that's what I want to understand. I think having people around you that will tell the truth is a superpower. So how do you cultivate the type of conditions that allow people
27:00 Speaker 02 By championing it. By when someone here says something to you.
27:04 Emma Grede? Rewarding it, right?
27:06 Speaker 02 Facts.
27:07 Emma Grede? You're like, thank you for that shit.
27:09 Speaker 02 Not only thank you in private, like when employees say something to me.
27:12 Emma Grede? Yeah, in front of everyone.
27:13 Speaker 02 Oh, my God. I mean, when Steve Unwin years ago said to me, Gary, you always talk about intent, if you have good intent, even if you make mistakes. But he said something interesting. He said, well, what if you don't act on any of that intent? And it made me think. I mean, you would have thought Steve won a Nobel Peace Prize. I was telling that story in the office for a month. So I think for you, especially, you know, and you're in this spot right now that a lot of people go through when it's like starting to really happen. That's when you have to almost triple down on
27:42 Emma Grede? Facts.
27:43 Speaker 02 Triple down on it. And then, once one person gets rewarded for it, then everyone else starts to feel safe. But it's funny, I've heard, we're growing very quickly in all my companies. So there's a lot of new blood. And it's really funny watching a new player, especially an experienced executive, who's worked in all these other places.
27:59 Emma Grede? Who is, who is
28:00 Speaker 02 Who sees like a kid.
28:01 Emma Grede? Who senses themselves.
28:02 Speaker 02 Yeah, that sees like a kid shit on me.
28:04 Emma Grede? Yeah.
28:04 Speaker 02 And they're like, what are you doing? Now, for everyone who's listening, don't be this person now. One of the big mistakes a lot of kids make in my company, they'll come in and they know this about me. And they'll make something, they want to show that they'll push back, but they're pushing back on some dumb shit.
28:20 Emma Grede? Yeah.
28:21 Speaker 02 Like, you have to make sure the business you're standing on, when you're pushing back against the lead player.
28:25 Emma Grede? There's real stuff there.
28:26 Speaker 02 Yeah, you better not.
28:27 Emma Grede? For sure. Don't come with some bullshit and put me down.
28:29 Speaker 02 And I will kill you.
28:30 Emma Grede? No, I'm gonna murder you.
28:31 Speaker 02 I'm like, that's very And I'm quick to be like, that was cute. You're trying to show that you're not a yes person? Please explain one more time what the fuck you just said.
28:39 Emma Grede? But I love what you're saying, because I think that we have created conditions, oftentimes around ourselves, where we've, we don't enable people to tell the truth. And it is something that really hampers people. I actually think, again, and I always go back to women, because there is an ease with, in the way that we kind of feel like we have to always give, you know, positive feedback, lift each other. It's like, you know what? Like, it's actually more helpful, because women have fewer opportunities, fewer chances to get things right. They're held to insane standards. It's harder for them to raise money. When you lie to women, that's really problematic.
29:15 Speaker 02 Of course.
29:16 Emma Grede? We actually need more tricks.
29:17 Speaker 02 You become an enabler of something that isn't right.
29:19 Emma Grede? Yes.
29:20 Speaker 02 And that doesn't mean you're not a girl's girl.
29:22 Emma Grede? No, it doesn't mean you're not a girl's girl. Quite the opposite.
29:24 Speaker 02 But, let there be no confusion. I struggled with candor for a long time in my career, because I watched people use candor to be a straight dickface.
29:32 Emma Grede? Facts.
29:33 Speaker 02 Right? People disguise candor to just be horrible.
29:37 Emma Grede? Yes.
29:37 Speaker 02 So, we stood up something years ago in my company called Kind Candor. If you give a little sugar to the medicine you're about to give to, a lot of times it lands.
29:45 Emma Grede? Yes.
29:46 Speaker 02 And so like when you told that person, if you, if you're able to be like, hey, listen, before I say anything, I hope you actually understand that I'm deeply coming from love because I think you're a badass bitch. But in this moment, like every human, I think there was a little, you know, it's how you deliver it.
30:03 Emma Grede? It's all about how you deliver it. Melody Hobson came on this podcast and she spoke about getting really hard feedback in her early career. And she said, I can't remember the, I wish I remembered who she was speaking about, but somebody very incredible. And she said, come on, give it to me, you know, be brutally honest. And he said to her, you know what? I'm going to be honest, but I don't need to be brutal. And I think that that is so important. You can give it to people straight without being a dick.
30:27 Speaker 02 You can give it to them compassionately, sympathetically, kindly. There's no reason to make it a to do. But yes, giving real feedback, which was something I do amazing to the ether, but I struggled mightily in my twenties and thirties operating because I, I cared about the people and I thought it was scaring them if I gave them feedback.
30:48 Emma Grede? Yeah.
30:48 Speaker 02 And I misunderstood for a long time.
30:50 Emma Grede? For a long time.
30:51 Speaker 02 For 20 years.
30:52 Emma Grede? I'm glad to talk to you about that because I think it's such, it's such an overlooked point, like just to be truthful and to be honest and how that follows you. Because when you don't have much, you always have your reputation. Your reputation will follow you around. And there's so much of that that you're in control of, just telling the truth, being honest, being reliable. It comes back to you in ways that you don't even understand.
31:14 Speaker 02 I also think a lot about pendulum swings. Like right now with the explosion of digital, I'm getting very excited about analog.
31:20 Emma Grede? Glad you went there because that's what I want to talk to you about.
31:22 Speaker 02 Good. I believe that society pendulum swings. Every five, 10, 15, 20 years, whatever it may be, baggy jeans, tight jeans, baggy jeans, right? You know?
31:30 Emma Grede? I know. I know about the jeans.
31:32 Speaker 02 I know you do. I think we've gone through an era of the last 10 years, last seven, where just like morals and ethics and proper just completely went out the window. I think one of the great things of never compromising on your reputation, like trying to be a good person, I actually think we're in the pre dawn of a very good era. For good people. I think we're getting tired.
31:58 Emma Grede? I'm like, can that era just come along?
32:00 Speaker 02 I smell it. I do this for a living. I smell it. I'm starting to see the earliest cracks.
32:04 Emma Grede? What is giving you that feeling? Because I feel like a lot of people will be like, please, good lord, let that be the truth.
32:10 Speaker 02 Fatigue of trends.
32:11 Emma Grede? Really? You literally just think it's like being an asshole has just gone full circle?
32:15 Speaker 02 Yeah.
32:15 Emma Grede? Winning while being an asshole has gone full circle.
32:18 Speaker 02 We just kind of went, yeah, we just kind of went to a place where like civility didn't become cool anymore. And we thought it was cool that everyone was fucking keeping it real and shooting it straight and blah, blah, blah, which then led to the next version, which is saying things that are inappropriate. I actually think it's a trend. I think we're, it's fatigue. Remember, I'd like to think everyone, listen, I was a very bad student, but I was good at history. I'd like to remind everyone, the sixties were pretty tumultuous.
32:47 Emma Grede? Fuck, yeah, of course they were.
32:48 Speaker 02 Like.
32:49 Emma Grede? Stay on this fault though for me, Gary, because you are such a thoughtful person. And when you make a prediction like that, it's not coming from nowhere. We are clearly in a moment where decency is completely unraveled and it doesn't matter if you look politically, economically, through a lens of social, like the very fabric on how I think we were raised.
33:07 Speaker 02 Even day to day. I travel a lot. When I watch an eighty year old woman get to the airport gate and I see nineteen, twenty year olds just sitting there.
33:17 Emma Grede? You've got to be fucking kidding me.
33:18 Speaker 02 And I'm like, someone, like, please God.
33:21 Emma Grede? Somebody help her.
33:22 Speaker 02 Even down to that level.
33:23 Emma Grede? Yeah.
33:24 Speaker 02 I'm telling you, and I'm glad I have this on wax, I'm, I know, because I watch what everyone says. I'm telling you, it's starting, the earliest bubbles, I think you will see a lot of people gain popularity over the next two to four years by being civil.
33:51 Emma Grede? So if you're a graduate now, you're about to graduate and you're thinking about the future, you're thinking about what's happening in AI, what's happening, what's your job? What do you say to young people now to focus on?
34:02 Speaker 02 To reverse engineer what they think they're good at and what they like. When you're 20 or 22, you need to go into the biggest high-risk years of your life. 22 to 30 is high-risk time. But we taught them all to, now you've grown, you gotta get a job. We completely fucked it up. It's backwards.
34:22 Emma Grede? Yeah.
34:23 Speaker 02 22 to 30 is insanity.
34:24 Emma Grede? No, it's fuck-around time.
34:25 Speaker 02 It's, and in a real way, and I don't mean like the way that people think about it, which is like, oh, it's fuck-around time? I'm not gonna do shit.
34:32 Emma Grede? No, don't, no, don't, never do shit, yes.
34:35 Speaker 02 It's, what the fuck is your dream? But don't be delus- do not mix up passion and delusion. They're two different words. What do you love the most? Because that's gonna get you to work as hard as it's gonna require to break into something, and then are you actually good at it?
34:50 Emma Grede? That's the kicker.
34:52 Speaker 02 Yeah.
34:53 Emma Grede? Are you good at it?
34:54 Speaker 02 Are you good at it?
34:55 Emma Grede? Are you good at it?
34:56 Speaker 02 And then I'll say another thing. Get as close to the sun as possible. I know for a fact, a ton of young girls desperately want to be you, right now. This is happening right now. If she's listening right now, she needs to spam the fuck out of this organization and get in here. And if she's just back there, literally serving, get as close to the sun. I could not push this more. I feel like you have to get in that room and do whatever the fuck you need to do to just be around it, because osmosis is the greatest teacher in the world.
35:32 Emma Grede? You literally are like, boy me, is he not? Like, do you know why they're all laughing?
35:35 Speaker 02 Why?
35:36 Emma Grede? Because I say the same shit every day. Like, you talk about osmosis, I speak about proximity and visibility. Just, like, just go for me. Do, go, Gary, like, just go.
35:46 Speaker 02 Life is not school. You are not gonna learn how to be an entrepreneur by reading an entrepreneur book. You need to learn by seeing it.
35:57 Speaker 02 It's the jungle out here. Lions become better lions by hanging out with lions.
36:01 Emma Grede? Facts.
36:02 Speaker 02 You know, like, the amount of people that leave great organizations where they have proximity to winners for $5,000 more somewhere. I mean, I see this all the time. I've been talking about this for a long time, so I get some really fun emails for people that really regret leaving. Oh, my God, I was at this company. I felt undervalued for $2,000. They went to this other place. Like, the learning experience when you're up close to someone doing it, it's called real life. It's how life works.
36:30 Emma Grede? But can I tell you, I, this is one of the things I like to talk about so much because I really get a lot of shit around this work-life balance thing, like being in the office and proximity. And I don't say it because I believe that people need to, like, ruin their lives and have no balance. I believe that proximity and visibility, right, the other way around, coming back at you, like, you being seen, you being in the right space, you being in the right conversations, people being able to contextualize, oh, look over there, that's KK. Like, he's really good at this thing, this thing, and this thing.
37:01 Speaker 02 And look at-
37:02 Emma Grede? You have to do that in real life.
37:03 Speaker 02 And look at how KK took that feedback from her. Wow, he's so gracious.
37:08 Emma Grede? And then put it in his work tomorrow.
37:10 Speaker 02 Look at that great, but he's more senior. Oh, wait a minute. Huh. You can be talented and you can be gracious when someone on paper below you said something. Oh, I want to be like that.
37:21 Emma Grede? Yeah.
37:21 Speaker 02 It's much more detailed than just a black and white. It's the gray.
37:24 Emma Grede? It's the, it's the gray. And it's so interesting because I sat in a job that I felt extremely undervalued in in my early twenties, but I learned so much. My, my desk was in front of the, the boss, the owner of the company. And I used to listen to this woman every day. I heard every shit thing that was happening in that company, every conversation. I heard how she won business, and I was just soaking it all up.
37:47 Speaker 02 We've lost the art of no one gives a fuck. When you're 24 and you're sitting and you feel undervalued, the power of knowing no one gave a fuck about you was actually a strength. It was. Now, it shouldn't be inappropriate. Back to what you were saying about work-life balance, you're not talking about, like, burning out and dying.
38:05 Emma Grede? No.
38:06 Speaker 02 But, but entitlement is a disease. And if you're walking into an organization that you've been done shit in- And you're a child and you think you should be the fucking VP and your thoughts should be like overvalued. That's called audacity and it is not attractive.
38:21 Emma Grede? No.
38:22 Speaker 02 And by the way, if you're such a whiz kid, go do it.
38:24 Emma Grede? Go do your thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Take your shot.
38:26 Speaker 02 Because by the way, there's unlimited 23 year olds cooking.
38:29 Emma Grede? Yeah.
38:30 Speaker 02 With social media. There's unlimited 23 year olds. People say all the time, like Gary, you don't get it. I'm like, I do get it. There's unlimited 23 year olds cooking. Do we not know that?
38:39 Emma Grede? Yes.
38:40 Speaker 02 This is the greatest era ever for 20 year olds. You have unlimited opportunity, live shopping, social media, content, vibe coding. If you're 25 and you're not cooking, you suck. But are you ready for that message? You're definitely not when your mom and dad said you're the best and fought all your fights. And when I say you suck, that's not bad. Cause the cool part is you have unlimited time to dominate.
39:07 Emma Grede? Yeah, you do.
39:08 Speaker 02 Unlimited.
39:09 Emma Grede? Yeah, you do.
39:09 Speaker 02 But when you, when you actually internalize what I'm saying and you're like, wait a minute. I saw a TikTok that said, this is the worst generation because the boomers took all the money. Did you not notice the 93,000 people you're following that are making a million dollars a year in brand deals that are your age? Which part are you listening to?
39:27 Emma Grede? Which part are you listening to? Or whatever you choose to listen to, right? Whatever you choose to put your focus.
39:33 Speaker 02 Life is very simple. You find what you're looking for. You think the world sucks? Good news. You can find it all day long.
39:38 Emma Grede? Yeah.
39:39 Speaker 02 But you want to think the world's awesome? Good news. There's unlimited things to see. You choose.
39:45 Emma Grede? I want you to get back to something that I look at you and think that you have been so brilliant in predicting what is to come. And I love that you talk about the return of civility because that is something that I think is so needed in the world right now. And I love that because I think I've always been the Michelle Obama and gone high. So that, that feels good for me. But talk to me about, because I've seen you speaking so much about the next trends and you predicted YouTube, you predicted, you know, so many of these like big social movements, how important social commerce was going to be. And now you are non-stop talking about shopping.
40:23 Emma Grede? I'm like, you are obsessed. And I'm like, listen, how have you even become someone that can spot that and see it? And then you can talk to me about what's going to happen.
40:31 Speaker 02 I work. Like, how many people listening to this podcast did unlimited research 12 years ago when China was doing the same thing? I have a funny feeling not many.
40:41 Emma Grede? Not that many.
40:42 Speaker 02 You know, twenty years ago, like, why are guys bringing back these weird mustaches? You know, four years ago, back to the jeans, like, oh, skinny's out, like, here comes, you know, like, why?
40:52 Emma Grede? But when you talk about curiosity as a superpower, you're talking about a deep, like, you're going in and in and in, asking questions, taking meetings, because you don't come to those type of assumptions without deep understanding and knowledge.
41:06 Speaker 02 That's right.
41:06 Emma Grede? And then you're applying them and making money from that.
41:08 Speaker 02 And then, by the, yes, and then, by the way, I'm not predicting, I'm commentating. Let me explain.
41:13 Emma Grede? Please.
41:14 Speaker 02 This year, TikTok Shop will probably do between twenty-five and forty billion dollars in GMV. That means gross merchandise value. That means everyone in the studio and everyone listening at home, twenty-five billion dollars worth of stuff is gonna sell on TikTok Shop this year. That's, I'm not predicting shit, it happened. Y'all just don't know about it at the level that you think, and I've seen this movie over and over, e-commerce in nineties. I was right about putting my daddy's liquor store on e-commerce and yapping about e-commerce, not to the world back then, to my circles, but eBay and Amazon had already happened. You know, I was right about social media, like, top eight?
41:57 Speaker 02 Top eight had already happened on MySpace, like, I knew it was just gonna keep building. Live shopping happened in Asia a decade ago.
42:05 Emma Grede? Yep.
42:05 Speaker 02 And it's been happening on whatnot.
42:07 Emma Grede? But it's been slow to take off here, right? Because again, like, I have brands that are huge on TikTok Shop, and yet, live shopping is something that we haven't quite cracked yet.
42:16 Speaker 02 It's early, and it's a different skill.
42:18 Emma Grede? Hmm.
42:18 Speaker 02 It's being good at QVC, not being good at catalogs on the internet.
42:22 Emma Grede? Yeah.
42:22 Speaker 02 That's different.
42:23 Emma Grede? It's a different thing.
42:23 Speaker 02 It's a different thing. Everybody's trying to have a hit podcast. It takes talent, it takes a team, it takes work ethic, it takes serendipity, it takes a lot of shit. Like, everything good is hard, live shopping is good, good.
42:37 Emma Grede? What do you think the next evolution is then, when you look at what's happening in US commerce? Is it just that you're looking at China and you're like, okay, whatever's happened there is going to pop off here?
42:46 Speaker 02 Because you have to know what Americans do, you need to know what, and then it goes. deeper, then it becomes, what do moms do? What do teenage girls do? Then it's, you break it again. What do black teenage girls do? White teenage girls do? Hispanic, and then you go into interest. What do cool girls, like, you know, it's very
43:01 Emma Grede? And on and on and on.
43:02 Speaker 02 And on and on and on. And then you have separation of wealth as a macro financial trend. You start thinking about things I think about, which is like the Arowanification of every category. What does that mean? That means a hundred fifty dollar suntan lotion.
43:15 Emma Grede? Yeah.
43:16 Speaker 02 That means sixty five dollar Band-Aids. That means a hundred thirty dollar pack of bubble gum. Because you might not be able to afford a private plane. And you might not be able to afford a big mansion or a two hundred thousand dollar card. But you might be able to get to a hundred thirty dollar pack of gum. And everybody wants that feeling, unfortunately. They're going to use materials to close emotional gaps.
43:46 Emma Grede? So you don't see that changing?
43:48 Speaker 02 It's probably almost my life's work of hoping that can change, but no, we've got deep rooted human truths that, you know, ebb and flow through society, through moments in time and history. I wish they did.
44:01 Emma Grede? Hmm.
44:02 Speaker 02 So I think about a lot of trends, but live shopping, I think for this audience, this is a big one. There are many men and women listening right now who dream to be content creators and influencers, who are destined to never be, but would actually make hundreds of thousands or million dollars a year, being live shopping hosts on TikTok.
44:23 Emma Grede? So let's talk about that for a minute. So there are so many people that listen to this podcast that think, you know, I've got something special.
44:30 Speaker 02 Yes.
44:30 Emma Grede? I need to be making more money.
44:31 Speaker 02 Yes.
44:32 Emma Grede? How do you, Gary Vee, sit there and say, all right, you know what? I'm gonna try something. I heard, I listened to Gary and he said that, you know, this whole online shopping thing's gonna take off. Like, what are the next steps?
44:45 Speaker 02 They literally take out their phone right now and they go to Claude or ChatGPT or Gemini, because we live in an AI world, and they literally say, I just listened to Gary Vee on Aspire with Emma, talk about live shopping. I'm a forty two year old stay at home mom that likes plants, Bravo television, clean eating, and fashion.
45:07 Speaker 02 I heard something, he said something about whatnot or something. He also said TikTok shop. How do I set up a TikTok shop account? Give me four examples of people that have gone from zero to meaningfully strong that look like me. Enter. Emma, how do people get into better health?
45:28 Emma Grede? How do they get into better?
45:29 Speaker 02 Yeah, how do people get into better physical health?
45:31 Emma Grede? By fucking doing it.
45:32 Speaker 02 Correct.
45:32 Emma Grede? They eat less, they exercise more, they get all the information and they find somebody that they think is like hot and healthy and copy whatever the fuck they're doing.
45:41 Speaker 02 Business, life, everything. It's actually shockingly simple. On paper, it's incredibly hard to be disciplined.
45:47 Emma Grede? So let's go back to where we started at the top because what is stopping that forty two year old mother who's sitting at home is fear.
45:55 Speaker 02 She knows that when she goes on TikTok and she's selling a plant in her living room, that the other moms in the neighborhood can see it. And that's that. And she doesn't want to hear like, why are you doing that? Do you and your husband, are you guys having financial trouble? Right?
46:12 Emma Grede? Facts.
46:12 Speaker 02 Facts. Oh, are you, oh, Emma, are you going through a midlife crisis? Like, that was so weird what you did. Like, you're selling plants on TikTok? I feel so, are you okay?
46:22 Emma Grede? Are you okay?
46:23 Speaker 02 They're scared of the pity of the hurt. I would never do that to the Emma. I would be the friend to be like, girl, I'm proud of you. Let's go. But they fear the pity of the hurt. The only reason her neighbor said that to her, she's not happy with her marriage right now. Or she's worried about her daughter right now. Or her mom was just diagnosed with cancer and she's scared. People are not living their full life because they fear the pity of the hurt.
46:53 Emma Grede? And if they've really listened to this podcast and they go back to the top and they listen to what it is that you have in the sense of you just don't give a fuck. And when you hear that critique, you have radical empathy that goes back to, why is that person so judgmental about me selling a fucking plant? You would be able to just wash straight over it.
47:16 Speaker 02 If I was that forty two year old woman and I went outside to get my mail and my neighbor, who's my girlfriend, came up to me and I'm that forty two year old woman and she said, I'll call myself Garina. Garina.
47:28 Speaker 02 Are you okay? That was a little weird. I saw what you did on TikTok last night selling the place. Everything okay? Is your husband okay financially? Like, what's going on? I would literally say to Sally, I'd be like, Sally, I feel so like, are you okay? Why would you say that to me? I'm trying something new. I want to do something. Why are you trying to tear me down? That can only mean that you're not in a great place. Are you guys okay?
47:51 Emma Grede? Yeah. I'd be like, Sally, do me a fucking favor.
47:54 Speaker 02 Get the fuck out of my face.
47:56 Emma Grede? Buy a fucking pants, support a neighbor.
47:58 Speaker 02 Sally, shut up and buy the fucking clothes.
47:59 Emma Grede? Help me out. Tell your mate.
48:00 Speaker 02 Be a girl's girl. Come on, Sally.
48:01 Emma Grede? You remember Avon, when those ladies would come around to your house? My mom would be like, buy a lipstick. Like, do what you can.
48:07 Speaker 02 But Emma, real quick, I want to go deeper on this because I'm going to change at least one person's life, one of your listeners. TikTok affiliate, you don't need to own the product. You literally go to the affiliate store. You're like, oh, I like that makeup. You apply. If they decide to work with you, they send you a sample. You literally make a video of it.
48:25 Emma Grede? You're off to the races.
48:25 Speaker 02 And if, God forbid, for some ungodly reason, that video gets 14,000 views and you make $83, they're, I'm watching person after person after person. This is an e-commerce that you and I did not grow up with. They don't have inventory.
48:38 Emma Grede? No. And by the way, we are doing that with all of our brands.
48:41 Speaker 02 Of course you are.
48:41 Emma Grede? And it is working unbelievably well.
48:44 Speaker 02 It's crushing.
48:44 Emma Grede? Crushing.
48:45 Speaker 02 That's affiliate. And then there's the live shopping for the people that have the gift of Gap. And that's crushing if you're talented. Not everyone's fucking Oprah.
48:52 Emma Grede? Sadly.
48:53 Speaker 02 Yeah, agreed.
48:54 Emma Grede? So Gary, before we stop this part, tell me, what are the, what are the signs and the signals that people should actually be paying attention to when it comes to like the changing of consumer behavior? Like, you have obviously honed this over a long time, but what is it that people should actually be paying attention to?
49:11 Speaker 02 First, do not be a person that romanticizes yesterday over tomorrow. The reason most people don't see what I see is because they don't want it to happen. People hate change, Emma.
49:23 Emma Grede? I do hate change.
49:24 Speaker 02 People are not adaptable. I prefer it. I'm at the top of my craft, Emma. Emma, do you think I want another social? Do you think I got excited three years ago when I'm like, fuck? And Substack and Beehive?
49:38 Emma Grede? You're like, what?
49:39 Speaker 02 Like, I'm like,
49:39 Emma Grede? You're like, I was killing it on these other platforms.
49:41 Speaker 02 I wish we just still had email. I was the king of email in 97. I don't get excited when a new thing comes along, but I have a responsibility to be a winner. And so I adjust to whatever's happening next. And so I think first it starts with that. Next, it's watch people. Emma, almost everyone judges people without watching them. Everything's stigma until it's not. Five minutes ago, if you met someone on online dating, you were like a weird dude in the basement.
50:11 Emma Grede? Yeah.
50:11 Speaker 02 Now it is this primary source of how people go into relationships. You know, for the woman that's thinking about selling on TikTok shop, your girlfriends are going to make fun of you and they're going to ask you how to do it. That's what's going to happen. So I think it's a couple of things. One, don't be romantic. Don't demonize the new stuff. Don't put your head in the sand about AI. Always go with maybe instead of no. And then put in the work. Always ask why. Why is everyone going to that restaurant?
50:40 Emma Grede? Why?
50:41 Speaker 02 Why?
50:42 Emma Grede? Yes.
50:42 Speaker 02 Is everyone loving that influencer? Why is that new TV show crushing? Why is that the it girl? Seven years ago, I'm like, oh, here's why these girls like Emma Chamberlain. I just read all the comments.
50:54 Emma Grede? Yeah, you just read exactly. It's amazing. Yeah. If you don't understand.
50:58 Speaker 02 Yeah, you know, and so that's it.
51:09 Emma Grede? If you were starting from zero today, you have no audience, you have no nothing, no money, no audience, no reputation, no resources. What would you do?
51:18 Speaker 02 I'd make content on the internet. Either about things I know. If I still had my knowledge,
51:22 Emma Grede? Yep.
51:22 Speaker 02 I would talk about business. I'd be Johnny Pants Magoo. And I would talk about business and wine and sports. The greatest equalizer that the world has ever seen is social media. Literally, there's no gatekeeper. Oh, the man is keeping me down. The algorithm doesn't give a fuck.
51:38 Emma Grede? No, it doesn't. The algorithm doesn't give a fuck. And you can only really appreciate that and understand it. And I'll contextualize it because when you came up in the fashion industry, the key to the kingdom were helped by three people, right? It was like there were a finite amount of hair people and makeup artists and stylists and so on. And that was it. And unless you were in with those people, there was fucking nothing.
51:57 Speaker 02 Gatekeepers.
51:58 Emma Grede? Now it's completely democratized.
51:59 Speaker 02 Completely.
52:00 Emma Grede? Completely.
52:01 Speaker 02 At a scale that is insane.
52:02 Emma Grede? So what do you think that this generation have got going for them that like no other generation has had?
52:08 Speaker 02 Opportunity.
52:08 Emma Grede? Yeah.
52:09 Speaker 02 Again, this is what blows me away. One stupid piece of content that tells you that the boomers took all the opportunity away from the kids makes kids believe the complete opposite of what they see every day, which is unlimited people that look like them winning. When I was coming up the game, you had to eat shit for 15 years to begin the first phase of opportunity.
52:30 Emma Grede? You should eat a little bit of shit though, no?
52:32 Speaker 02 I'm a big fan of it.
52:33 Emma Grede? I mean, I think so.
52:34 Speaker 02 I love eating.
52:35 Emma Grede? It's handsome.
52:35 Speaker 02 I think I'm saying it right now. I believe that adversity and humility are foundational to joy. Foundational to joy.
52:43 Emma Grede? I think that you're absolutely right because what you're talking about is a breeding ground to do the opposite of all the things that we know as foundational to be successful.
52:51 Speaker 02 And there's another thing. Kids learn pretty early when their parents are full of shit. Like it's eight, 10, 12, 13, 15, depending on the kid. When you're telling your 13 year old, you can do anything. And the kid's like, no, I can't. You're starting to lose credibility.
53:06 Emma Grede? Yeah.
53:06 Speaker 02 Stop bullshitting your children.
53:08 Emma Grede? And this is why you credit your mom with so much.
53:11 Speaker 02 This entire podcast was brought to you by Tamara Vaynerchuk. I am, I am literally the byproduct. I am the meal that you're like, oh, that's a beautiful meal. She is the woman that picked, gave me the ingredients and then cooked the meal. I am, I literally don't exist, Emma. I am my mother's byproduct.
53:28 Emma Grede? I love that.
53:29 Speaker 02 It's true.
53:30 Emma Grede? I heard my son speaks about me like that when he's older. I do not exist. I'm like, damn right you don't. What is she like? Is she so proud of you, your mum?
53:41 Speaker 02 Yes, but she was proud of me long before, right? Again, I think this is a big thing. I hope this helps parents. I've come to believe that it is really scary how much you become what your parents cheer about. For example, if you're born fortunate and you have pretty privilege and your parents are constantly, your entire youth, talking about how beautiful you are or handsome you are and like, your identity becomes that and you're gonna be that kind of person that in your 50s and 60s.
54:05 Emma Grede? No doubt.
54:06 Speaker 02 If, this is the one I'm very fearful of. If your parents make everything about grades, quietly they're telling you conform to a system that judges you. That's why we have so many employees. And if your mother cheers only about you being a nice boy and opening up doors for women and being kind and being nice to your sister, you end up being a nice boy. That's just the truth.
54:30 Emma Grede? End of.
54:30 Speaker 02 End of.
54:31 Emma Grede? It really is that simple.
54:32 Speaker 02 It's really that simple. Now, it's nuanced and there's other things, but like, the thing they cheer becomes who you become. And so I think parents have to be very careful and thoughtful about what they're spending on positive affirmation, because a young human will continue to gravitate that for a long time.
54:51 Emma Grede? Gary, if you could change one thing that the next generation believes to be true, specifically about success, what would it be?
55:00 Speaker 02 It is actually my North Star, that nice guys finish first, not last. And obviously that goes for girls and that is that. That this concept that you would need to have sharp elbows, that you need to step on people, that it's a dog-eat-dog world, that it's a jungle. These are all true-ish, but the world is abundant. And your reputation is your biggest asset. And everybody gets exposed quietly. This is the thing a lot of winners don't know. There's some people right now that are winning that are not good people that are driving and they're like, wrong, right now, in their Beamer, wrong. What they don't know is how much they left on the table because nothing ever came to them because all of us other winners were like, fuck you.
55:44 Speaker 02 They think they won with 6 million. Do you know what's better than 6 million? 60 million. They don't know that they left 54 million on the table. Got it?
55:54 Emma Grede? That is the truth.
55:55 Speaker 02 Yep.
55:56 Emma Grede? That is the truth.
55:56 Speaker 02 Yes.
55:57 Emma Grede? Oh, I'll be happy if your next prediction comes true.
55:59 Speaker 02 The civility?
56:00 Emma Grede? Yes. That might be the, for me, the single best takeaway that I have heard for a really long time because we are in deep need.
56:10 Speaker 02 It's coming. We're tired. That's why the 60s looked differently in the 70s with disco and by the 80s, we were tired. You can't, my friends, you all know this, we can't stay in this sustained anxious state in perpetuity.
56:26 Emma Grede? No, we cannot.
56:27 Speaker 02 We will crack and what we will do as humans is we'll adapt the other way and we'll start gravitating to simplicity and kindness. It's coming.
56:34 Emma Grede? If you believe that to be true, how do you cultivate that? Because I think what is dragging people down right now and what causes people to act other than civil is that they're bombarded by so much shit and so much like, so much drags them down. So how do you actually cultivate that in your life?
56:52 Speaker 02 For the audience, it's be the person you wish everyone, shit is so simple. Be better, be nicer. When you are hurt, recognize you're insecure and that's why you're triggered when someone cuts you in line at Starbucks and you lose your fucking mind. That is the great tell that shit's fucked up for you. Be, be empathetic. Maybe the shit's fucked up for them. Everyone thinks the whole world revolves around them.
57:21 Emma Grede? It does.
57:22 Speaker 02 It sure doesn't. And then for me personally, like, the proudest thing professionally that may end up happening to me is that when people look back at this era, because all the receipts are online, during the hardest 10 years when everyone was shitting on everyone, I shit on no one.
57:37 Emma Grede? You didn't?
57:37 Speaker 02 Nope.
57:38 Emma Grede? That was choiceful, it's just not who you are. Do you ever feel like shitting on someone?
57:42 Speaker 02 Like Tom Brady and Michael Jordan, because I love sports, they hurt my feelings.
57:46 Emma Grede? Yeah, yeah.
57:47 Speaker 02 Because they beat my teams.
57:47 Emma Grede? They fucked you over, they killed you.
57:49 Speaker 02 In sports, I do it a lot.
57:50 Emma Grede? Yeah, yeah, that's different.
57:51 Speaker 02 Correct, it's a fake world.
57:52 Emma Grede? That's not mean, that's not mean.
57:53 Speaker 02 No, I don't have the audacity to think everyone should see the world. That's the funniest thing, Emma. This concept that everyone should see the world the way you see it.
58:02 Emma Grede? Hmm.
58:03 Speaker 02 Do you know how insane it is to spend time to go watch someone's video and leave a nasty comment?
58:09 Emma Grede? Oh.
58:09 Speaker 02 You know how fucked up that like?
58:10 Emma Grede? No, that's, that's psychotic. It's actually fully psychotic, you know that.
58:14 Speaker 02 It's like, on what planet was that a good use of three minutes?
58:17 Emma Grede? Yes, but who was your mother? If you don't have anything nice to say, don't fucking say nothing.
58:21 Speaker 02 I'm so pumped that you're excited about this.
58:23 Emma Grede? Oh, no, no, no, it's the best thing I've ever heard.
58:25 Speaker 02 I can't wait to see.
58:25 Emma Grede? Best thing I've ever heard.
58:26 Speaker 02 I'm like now so hyped to see you in seven years. I'm gonna see you somewhere in seven years.
58:29 Emma Grede? We're gonna see me.
58:30 Speaker 02 And you're gonna be like, how the fuck? I'm, because we, we as humans.
58:34 Emma Grede? I'm praying for it, I'm praying for it.
58:35 Speaker 02 Let me tell you exactly why it's gonna happen. We get tired.
58:39 Emma Grede? We're over the energy star.
58:40 Speaker 02 And by the way, everyone who's listening who's like, you're delusional, Gary? No, no, I understand most aren't. I'm telling you that I see the cracks that some are. At enough scale that I think it's gonna pendulum up.
58:52 Emma Grede? I'll be on the other end of that pendulum swing. I'll take it, I wanna believe that.
58:56 Speaker 02 And, and you have the ability to impact.
58:59 Emma Grede? Yes, I would think so. It's like, who do you wanna be? You know, Michelle Obama says this beautiful thing. She always says, you know, you're in training for the type of person that you wanna be.
59:07 Speaker 02 That's right.
59:07 Emma Grede? And I think that you choose your choice. You choose how you react to the world every single day.
59:11 Speaker 02 I just think it's crazy to go roll in the mud with the other pigs.
59:14 Emma Grede? Totally, I mean, listen, I'm gonna start with yourself, girl. It all starts here. You can choose.
59:19 Speaker 02 You're in control.
59:20 Emma Grede? I'm moving you to rapid fire.
59:21 Speaker 02 Let's do it.
59:22 Emma Grede? All right, I'm the worst at rapid fire, by the way. I don't even know how to do it.
59:25 Speaker 02 I'm remarkable at it.
59:26 Emma Grede? Because are you?
59:27 Speaker 02 We'll be, we'll be solid at this. We'll be average then, if you're the worst and I'm remarkable.
59:32 Emma Grede? What's one habit that's had the biggest impact on your career?
59:36 Speaker 02 Accountability. I think everything is my fault. It is the foundation of my success. And I like it.
59:43 Emma Grede? You are good at rapid fire.
59:46 Emma Grede? What is a business opportunity that you passed on that you regret?
59:49 Speaker 02 My turn.
59:50 Emma Grede? Did you have loads of them?
59:52 Speaker 02 Sure, I missed the email from airbedandbreakfast.com that begged me to invest. That was bad. I passed on Uber twice.
59:58 Emma Grede? Aye, aye, aye.
59:59 Speaker 02 If I wrote my normal $50,000 check, I would have had 500 million. That was bad.
1:00:05 Emma Grede? That was bad.
1:00:07 Speaker 02 I mean, I could take up four hours.
1:00:09 Emma Grede? You're done. You're good. You had me at 500 million. What's the most important thing that you've changed your mind about?
1:00:17 Speaker 02 That candor is good. I used to think it was bad. I thought it was fear and now I've realized not giving candor actually creates real fear because then people don't know where they stand with you.
1:00:28 Emma Grede? I hope people really listen to that. Is there a book that changed your life?
1:00:31 Speaker 02 My reading comprehension is non-existent.
1:00:34 Emma Grede? And yet you're like a bestseller.
1:00:35 Speaker 02 I got a text today on the way here, five seconds ago, literally, an hour ago, I got a text coming here. I think she wrote, this employee of mine, four lines, four sentences.
1:00:44 Emma Grede? Couldn't get through it.
1:00:45 Speaker 02 I replied, set up a 15 minute meeting.
1:00:49 Speaker 02 I have no reading comprehension. I've read less than 10 books.
1:00:52 Emma Grede? So as a dyslexic person who can completely understand that and you write a lot, you put out a lot of content, how do you take in information? Because it's very, very clear that you absorb an enormous amount of information. You're undeniably curious to a fault. So what is it like? How do you get your information? Because mine comes at me mostly through books. So where does it come from for you?
1:01:15 Speaker 02 If I hear something or see something, it's a lock. If I read something, I have no chance. If I drive somewhere one time that's complicated, I will never, ever not be able to do it again.
1:01:27 Emma Grede? Really?
1:01:28 Speaker 02 If I see it or I hear it, so I'm constantly, yeah, so I'm killing it, you know?
1:01:34 Emma Grede? Yeah.
1:01:34 Speaker 02 But I have to hear it or see it.
1:01:36 Emma Grede? That's the only way that it goes in.
1:01:37 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:01:38 Emma Grede? What is something that you still aspire to?
1:01:41 Speaker 02 You know, I still think I'm dramatically under indexing professionally. I mean, I genuinely believe I'm going to build much bigger companies, much more impact. This be friends thing is big for me. It's going to be my legacy.
1:01:55 Emma Grede? You think so?
1:01:56 Speaker 02 Yeah, I think I'm building a Disney Pokemon, but really a Sesame Street. I feel like I'm more Jim Henson than I realized. I really aspire to build one of the great intellectual properties that brings good. That's why I say Jim Henson, Fraggle Rock, The Muppets, Sesame Street.
1:02:14 Emma Grede? You're taking me back. Can you imagine?
1:02:17 Speaker 02 So I've got a lot of professional goals, personal, very little. Like, I feel very good where I am with my humanity. But on the field, as a player, I've accomplished a lot professionally, but I feel like I've got a whole, whole, like uncomfortably a lot more to give.
1:02:34 Emma Grede? Wow. All right, we'll be watching this space.
1:02:37 Speaker 02 Thank you.
1:02:37 Emma Grede? Amazing. Thank you, Gary.
1:02:38 Speaker 02 Thanks, Em.
1:02:39 Emma Grede? Such a pleasure.
1:02:43 Emma Grede? If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click Follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Grede is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Grede. Executive producer, Ashley McShan. Derek Brown. And me. Our executive producers from Odyssey. Leah Reese Dennis, Asha Saluja, Lauren Legrosso. Producer KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Evan Cox, Kirk Courtney, Andrew Steele, and Carlos Delgado. Social media by Olivia Homan, Catherine Bale.
1:03:28 Emma Grede? Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sidney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company, and WME. Maura Curran, Josefina Francis, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Mikul, Sean Cherry, and Lauren Vieira. If you have questions for me, you could DM me at aspirewithemmagreed. Grede is spelled G R E D E. That's aspire, A S P I R E, with Emma Grede. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed.me.
1:04:03 Speaker 07 Today's episode is sponsored by NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast. Ever Google a money question and end up 12 tabs deep with 12 different answers? This podcast is your shortcut back to clarity. NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast breaks down financial decisions with a team of trusted journalists. They explain the why behind decisions like investing, home buying, and choosing credit cards with clear, research-backed insights. No jargon, no misinformation. Make your next financial move with confidence. Follow NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast on your favorite podcast app.
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