How to Get Paid for What Only You Can Bring with Law Roach

Law Roach is the image architect behind some of the most talked-about red carpet moments in the world. Raised on Chicago’s South Side, he built his career working with stars including Zendaya, Celine Dion, and Ariana Grande. Along the way, he became a star himself, with a name and reputation that carry value beyond the clothes. But reaching the top also brought a breaking point, and his very public retirement changed what he was willing to say yes to. In this episode of Aspire, Law joins Emma Grede to talk about his journey to the center of fashion and how he turned his talent and taste into a business. He shares what it took to earn millions a year from styling alone, and why walking away from it at the height of his career gave him the freedom to decide what he wanted to build next. Today, you’ll hear: Why a bold public persona only works when it’s backed by a professional reputation built on trust and follow-throughHow Law and Zendaya made sure his contribution was recognized and paid for in her fashion dealsWhy Keke Palmer fired him, and why being the best at your job doesn’t always mean you’re the right person for a clientHow gratitude and looking after other people’s interests build relationships that lastWhy Law uses fashion to tell stories about Black history and the women who shaped himWhat it takes to build a business that can grow beyond your own time and talent

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:09Emma Grede?

  Law Roach has spent 12 years in a job that trains people to stay invisible. And he did the exact opposite. He made himself the talent. He trademarked the term image architect because stylists stopped covering what he actually does. And at his peak, he was running a team across four cities and making four to five million a year on styling alone. I've wanted this conversation for a long time. People see the red carpets, they don't see the business sitting underneath them. What stayed with me is how clearly Law understands the value he creates. We talk about how his public retirement gave him the agency to say no and become a bankable brand in his own right. The difference between persona and reputation and how his partnership with Zendaya changed the way stylists get paid.

• 0:52Emma Grede?

  He also says something about refusing to apologize for the life he's built that I haven't heard anyone say that plainly. This is Law Roach.

• 1:05Emma Grede?

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• 1:50Emma Grede?

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• 2:28Emma Grede?

  Law Roach, welcome to Aspire.

• 2:30Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:31Emma Grede?

  I've just been waiting and waiting and waiting.

• 2:34Speaker 01

  I'm here, I'm here, I'm finally here, I'm happy.

• 2:36Emma Grede?

  I'm so happy you're here and I do say about time because I count myself as a huge Law Roach fan. Like I really, really do and I don't say that for a lot of people. But I think that people really associate you with these epic moments in fashion and more broadly in the culture. But I don't know that they always understand how much work, how much thought, how much know-how and understanding goes into those moments. And so when I think about people that I want on this show, it's people that understand their craft deeply. It's those that have really worked to create a reputation for themselves and a business for themselves. And I think that you really understood what you were creating.

• 3:18Emma Grede?

  You understood your worth and you were unashamed about going after it. And so I'm really excited to talk to you today because I think for my audience, there's a lot to learn from your career and how you've gone about it, regardless of the fashion piece. But really understanding who you are and what you have to bring to the situation. And so I'm excited to get into all of that today.

• 3:37Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 3:38Emma Grede?

  So people see the clients, they see the clothes, they see the red carpets, they see all the glitz and glamour. But what do you think would surprise people the most about what it actually takes to do your job?

• 3:48Speaker 01

  In the context of what we're talking about, I think that people don't understand that it's really a business. I think that a lot of people do see the clothes, they see the glamour and they think it's just, you know, I'm on the phone, I get a dress, I put it on a celebrity and that's it. But it is a business. I would say kind of at the height of my career, I had four assistants in LA, two assistants in New York, one assistant in London, a part-time assistant in Paris. And that means that I'm responsible for a lot of people and a lot of payroll. And understanding what that means when it comes to the bottom line of how much money I need to make, what my burn rate needs to be every month to cover all these expenses. And I think that's the part that people don't see or even probably don't even care about.

• 4:33Speaker 01

  But that is important for me as a businessman to understand all those things.

• 4:37Emma Grede?

  And do you think about yourself as a businessman?

• 4:39Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely, more than, more than an artist. People are like, oh, you're such an artist. And I'm like, no, in the back of my mind, I'm like, no, I'm a businessman, right? Because what I learned and kind of later in the career is that for me, what's important is that I monetize the talent, right? I monetize the connections, I monetize the storytelling. I've been doing this since 2014, so this is my 12th year. And I think maybe around year seven, eight, I started to really understand that, that I had to separate the artistry from the business because we all know there's a lot of really talented people. There's a lot of stylists that I think are way better stylists than me, you know what I mean?

• 5:21Speaker 01

  But what separates and what is, is the moves that I made to make myself a business.

• 5:27Emma Grede?

  Well, I'm really happy that you say that because I want to talk a lot about the differentiator. You said on another podcast, you said you're 97.5% of the way to not giving a fuck. I want to understand what's in the remaining 2.5%.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  Um, I think that is respect for the people I worked with, right? Because my name is so tied to the people I work with and I would never want to go to a place where it could possibly damage their reputation or our relationship. So that's what I'm holding on to the last, you know what I mean, few percentage.

• 5:58Emma Grede?

  Just a little bit.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  Just out of respect, you know?

• 6:00Emma Grede?

  But I actually think that shows so much about the type of businessman you are. Because there is a, there's a consideration beyond yourself. And I think that all of us have that some way in how we work, different levels to it. Looking at everything that you're doing now, what are you saying yes to that you would never have considered before? And I guess what's an easy no?

• 6:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I'm saying yes to myself. That's what I learned, you know, post-retirement is that no is a complete answer. And if I say no to something, the people around me shouldn't question that or try to change that. I am just more about self and what makes me happy. I was just in my office and everybody in my office is smiling and laughing and we're joking. And that's such a good feeling to just be around joy. So, you know, I love the work and I work really, really hard, but it, but it has to be for things and for people that, that make me happy and bring me joy. Because I also think that prior to retirement, a lot of people wanted to work with me based on affiliation and proximity to,

• 7:03Speaker 01

  you know, and so I figured that out and I'm like, no, no, no, I want to work with people who genuinely see the way that I can add value, right? And vice versa. So it's just about me and what makes me happy, you know? I love making money and that's the core kind of, but, but it has to be more than just, you know, a cheque.

• 7:20Emma Grede?

  When you look back, do you think the retirement was a little dramatic?

• 7:24Speaker 01

  You know what, but not on purpose, not on purpose, not at all. I had just had a situation with a client. I was stressed out, I was doing 12, 15 of the biggest stars in the world across all platforms, sports, actors, music, everything. And I had been asked to walk in the Boss show, so I was flying to Miami for my fitting. And that morning, it was, it was just a disaster. And I got off the plane and I was in the car with my publicist and I just started crying, which I never do, never cry. And I was just like, I don't want to do this anymore. And I went and got the most generic, you know, retired thing and I posted it and just wrote the little message

• 8:06Speaker 01

  and put my phone down and my phone would not stop ringing. The alerts, the phone calls, I walked in, the first person who saw me was Naomi Campbell. And she called me into her room and she said, you cannot, whoever this is, you cannot let them push you out of this. You're too good, you're too great. I won't call it trauma, it really wasn't trauma, but it was this situation. And I was tired, you know what I mean? I was tired, I didn't sleep. I had clients that were in press tours in Milan and Paris and Asia all at the same time. There was no sleep, I'm running this huge global team, we work in 24/7. You know, I'm working for some people that I shouldn't have been working for. Everything and everybody has a breaking point and I think I just hit it at that moment.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  And yeah, and I just posted that, but what, what I didn't think would happen from that is that I would have these metrics on how important I was or how relevant I was to the culture.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  So that was incredible. And the opportunities that started coming, people was like, oh, we want to do a documentary. Or we want, do you want your own production company? Do you want this? And it all just came like that week assigned to an agent. It was just a lot. And then that became a lot. That became too much. So I'm like, you know what? Let me just step back and breathe a little.

• 9:24Emma Grede?

  Rather than a retirement, it felt like a rebirth to me.

• 9:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:27Emma Grede?

  You know, I looked at it and I was like, to me, you had more relevancy than ever before. And, you know, the reason I asked you the question is because I think so many people get to really where they want to be and they have this like moment of burnout. And I wonder, because I've read so much about your situation and what was going on and this particular client that pushed you over the edge. Do you think that without that client pushing you over the edge, would you have been burnt out anyway? Like, I'm just trying to understand, like, genuinely what was happening there? And if you kind of have any lessons from that time, like, would you have done things differently?

• 10:04Speaker 01

  I don't know, because again, it was, it was such an emotional reaction. And I don't make emotional decisions, you know? And that was all emotion. Like, every part about that post and that day was emotional. And I didn't know, and when it came so big, I was like, oh shit, I gotta stick to this. You know what I mean?

• 10:21Emma Grede?

  No doubt.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  I can't take it back.

• 10:22Emma Grede?

  I need to not come out now.

• 10:24Speaker 01

  I can't, I can't take it back. You know, I can't take it back.

• 10:27Emma Grede?

  Was there regret in that moment?

• 10:29Speaker 01

  No, no, no, I didn't have any regret because I still kind of worked because I went on to do those two press tours for Zendaya back and back. But that's, you know, that's, that was never gonna go anywhere. And then it was all the gossip. It was like, oh, I retired because I didn't have a seat at the Vuitton show and all these stupid internet things. And, but it was, it actually really was the best decision of my life.

• 10:50Emma Grede?

  And tell me why, like, what changed in that moment, both internally, but also externally?

• 10:57Speaker 01

  Well, internally, it gave me the power to choose what I wanted to do because I, now I had this thing like, oh, I'm retired, I can say no. I didn't, I never thought I could say no. When people that I've watched growing up, or I look up to, or these big stars would call me, I just felt so flattered and still from this place of this little boy from Chicago who dreamt of this life and this lifestyle, I just felt like I could never say no. So that, it gave me the allowance and agency to say no. So that was one thing. And I think externally, it put me on a different level.

• 11:32Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  I wasn't no longer just a stylist. I had become this thing outside of the work. I had became this person outside of the clients, right? That people really cared what I was doing, what I was saying and all those things. So it just put me on a different level to that, that I think had I not did that, I wouldn't have gotten.

• 11:52Emma Grede?

  I agree with you. I think it completely recontextualized you. And I think that suddenly you had a voice, right? We all knew you had a voice, we all know you're a big personality, but you stood for something outside of being excellent at your job, which is, which is really understanding. And we're gonna talk about the power of personal branding, which I think that you really have your, your hand on quite a lot. But it was a really interesting moment. I mean, for the longest time, I think your work was obviously how you measured your worth. And when something doesn't go your way now, do you, do you handle it and do you see it differently?

• 12:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know if things don't go my way. To be quite honest, you know, I don't think things don't go my way. But I, I do feel like there was a maturation during the retirement. And when I wrote my book, writing that book, taking that time, it just, it really just changed me as a person. It put my life into perspective. It put the things that I thought were important in perspective.

• 12:56Emma Grede?

  Fair. And you told Zee Way, brilliant interview by the way, I just like, nothing has made me laugh as much for a very, very long time.

• 13:03Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 13:04Emma Grede?

  But you told Zee Way that you'd outgrown your pettiness. What would it take for a brand that dismissed you early on to earn another chance with you?

• 13:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think, I think it's all, all those beefs are done. You know what I mean? I think people just, the internet just loves to rehash that because it, you know, La Roche beefing with this brand or this brand.

• 13:23Emma Grede?

  Well, we love a little, we love a little bit of your pettiness. When you said it, I was like, really? No.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  I'm petty in so many other ways.

• 13:30Emma Grede?

  We know.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, I think, I think, I think it's grown, but you know, that, that pettiness was also protection of her. You know, it was, it was, if you don't want her now and you don't see the vision, then you'll never have her. Because I always knew that she would become one of the biggest stars in the world. From when I met her the day she was 14 years old, I always knew, I saw it. She always had it. And so that was, that was me being petty, but me also being protective. I'm like, if you, that's why, you know, if you say no now, you say no forever. But we've, you know, we've grown and we changed and, you know, and there's still some brands that she haven't, she hasn't worn, but more now is contractual than it is just me being petty.

• 14:10Emma Grede?

  All right, let's talk a little bit about your upbringing. Because before we even started this, I was telling you how much, when I first came to America, I got to Chicago, I got to Atlanta, and I was like, oh, here's the heart of this country. Here's, here's where all the people with all the soul. And I don't know, there's like something about Chicago where you grew up, which is just such an amazing place. What did you learn in Chicago that you still rely on today? And what have you had to unlearn in order to be as successful as you are?

• 14:39Speaker 01

  I learned everything. I credit everything. And I think Michelle Obama said this too. Credit, credit everything from growing up on the South Side of Chicago. It gave me grit. You can put me anywhere in the world and I'll survive and I'll be successful because of the way I grew up. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's the core of me, even the way I speak, you know, I have a regional dialect that is influenced from Chicago. The way I dress is influenced from Chicago. Like, everything to me, I can, I can trace it back to something. I went through a situation, a hardship, and it just taught me also to hustle. And I think that people sometimes hit a word hustler and think of it as negative, you know, negative.

• 15:23Speaker 01

  But it's not, you know, it's hustle, you're gonna find it. You know, you're gonna figure out where the money is, you're gonna figure out where the opportunities are, and you're gonna find it, you're gonna get there. And I learned all that from South Side of Chicago. Like, I was a bartender, you know, I relied on the kindness of others, you know what I mean, to feed myself and feed my family once my mother passed away. And every, there's nothing about me that is not Chicago. And I just brought that to Hollywood. I brought the hustle, I brought the street, you know, the street savviness, because I'm a street kid, I was raised on the street. I grew up doing street shit, you know what I mean? So I just brought it all to LA, brought it all to Hollywood and just, you know, remixed it.

• 16:05Emma Grede?

  I can really, I can really relate to that because I feel exactly the same from East London. Like, I feel like the place made me what I was, what I am, and taught me so many things that I use in my everyday life now. But by the same token, there were certain things and people that I had no choice but to leave behind.

• 16:23Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 16:23Emma Grede?

  Is there any part of you that says, or, you know, I just wonder like how that factors into your life and where you are now? Because the more high-profile you become, the more you have.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not having no fistfights no more.

• 16:35Emma Grede?

  No, you're not having no fistfights. No, that pretty face.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  Somebody wanna fight me, I'm calling the police now.

• 16:39Emma Grede?

  No, with that hair.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  I'm calling the police now. Like, you know, years ago, like, we could meet in the middle of the street and, you know, throw hands, but that part I have left, you know, behind.

• 16:49Emma Grede?

  You have to. But by the same token, there's always stuff that you don't really wanna leave behind because, you know, the, the higher, like, you climb, the more money you make, the more everything kind of gets bigger.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:01Emma Grede?

  I, I feel like I always get, there's a lot of revisits from the past.

• 17:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:05Emma Grede?

  And so I wonder what you do with that? Like, what happens when your past comes into your future and the two things meet?

• 17:12Speaker 01

  I think I've been doing, I've done a very good job of kind of separating that, even when it comes to family. And that's the hardest, right? I think when I first started making money, I got my first business manager, one of the first things he asked me, who do you take care of? You know? And, and I had to make a really tough decision that, that I would put myself first because we, we all have heard the stories, you know? Somebody, their first million dollars, they buy this person a house and this person a car and this and this and this, and then before you know it, and the taxes, then it's gone. So I had to really make a hard decision of, about who, who I would financially be responsible for.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  And I think that's, that's tough. But you have to make that decision. You have to make that decision because everybody can't come with you.

• 18:04Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  And everybody don't wanna come with you. Some people just wanna be you, you know? And that's also realizing and recognizing that is also tough. And, and, and separating yourself from those people. And, you know, it's that thing like, oh, you've changed, but you have to. You know, you, there's a lot of you that has to change and the people around you have to change. And it's just what you have to do and sacrifice to be, to be successful and to have the longevity with the success.

• 18:42Emma Grede?

  So tell me, when did you first even realise that you had an eye?

• 18:45Speaker 01

  Years ago, but it also came from hustle. I started just selling clothes. I would go to the thrift store and buy and rework them. And, you know, I always had a lot of girlfriends. So I would sell them dresses from the thrift store that I paid, you know, $5 for, $8 for, and I would sell it for like $100, you know? So that and I figured out that I had a level of taste that people appreciated. And so, yeah, I just, I figured that out. And then I opened a venture store based on the same principles. And then that led me to calling myself a stylist. Because I didn't really know what a stylist was until Rachel Zoe came around and she had that TV show. I'm like, oh, I'm gonna do that, you know?

• 19:30Emma Grede?

  No way, really? Is that true? Rachel Zoe?

• 19:34Speaker 01

  Rachel inspired me because I had never, so, you know, in the community, you grew up and you know about June Ambrose, you know about Misa, you know about all the hip hop stuff. But when I saw Rachel, I remember one episode of her, of the show, she went and she went backstage to meet Mr. Armani. And I was like, I want that. That's the career I want. Like, I want to sit front row at these shows. I want to go to Paris. I want to go to couture. And so she gave me something to aspire to be. And so that's, that's what, when I came to LA, I wanted to mould my career to be. And when I came, I always tell the story how I came and I was like, oh, I need to talk like her. You know, and be like, us, bananas, you know? And that shit lasted for a week. I'm like, that ain't me, babe.

• 20:19Speaker 01

  I gotta figure out how to do it my way, authentically me. But yeah, I credit, I credit Rachel all the time because that TV show let me see the possibilities of what this business and this career could do.

• 20:31Emma Grede?

  Law, you grew up with magazines like Ebony and Jet and Essence. What did the images in those magazines teach you that you still draw on today?

• 20:39Speaker 01

  People are so surprised that when I answer that question, it's never Vogue. You know what I mean? Like, we didn't get Vogue. You know, I wasn't, I, I, I wasn't checking for Vogue when I was younger. I, I looked at the things that were on my grandmother's coffee table, right? And that was those publications. And also, it was the representation because I also knew who owned those magazines, right? I knew about Eunice Johnson and I knew through my grandmother about Ebony Fashion Fair. And I knew the story of her going to Paris and buying these collections and bringing them to us to see. So it was something so motivating about this black woman and these black families that were doing these things that was more important to me or more interesting to me

• 21:22Speaker 01

  than seeing the white models in Vogue, right? But then, then as I got older, then it was like, oh, Naomi and Beverly Pille. And then it became a bridge into more of like the mainstream fashion, if you want to call it that. But it's culturally, that's, that's, that's who I am and that's where I draw from. Because I think that women and being a woman is an art form, but I think being a black woman is an even, even more powerful art form.

• 21:53Emma Grede?

  No doubt. And I feel like you've used some of your biggest, like, fashion moments to really celebrate black history, to really celebrate black women. Tell me or talk me through one time when one of those references has really mattered and what you actually wanted people to understand in your choices.

• 22:10Speaker 01

  I think it was Essence, Black Women in Hollywood. I put Zendaya in a East Saint Laurent outfit that belonged to Eunice. And when she wore it, Eunice Johnson started trending on Twitter. And for me, that was my way of, you know what I mean? Like, speaking this woman's name and having people go to research what she had done for the culture and for fashion and for black women in fashion. And for us, coming, you know, years and years behind in fashion. So that was really important to me. And, and to have a partner like Zendaya who understands all of that and who's let me teach her so much of that. And she, and to know like, oh, I'm wearing a piece of history

• 22:53Speaker 01

  that, you know, had it not been for her, the, the runways of, you know, you never know what the runways would look like, you know?

• 23:02Emma Grede?

  I do feel like you've done that so many times that it's so purposeful and it becomes so meaningful. And again, it is like a teaching moment because you're bringing something back and into the culture and into like the way that we're all speaking that nobody was thinking about in that moment. Do you see it as like a responsibility or is there just so much love there?

• 23:22Speaker 01

  It's a responsibility. I'm a storyteller. Even as recently as the Emmys and Zendaya with the pixie cut and styling like Halle Berry is like, we cannot forget what Halle Berry did to Hollywood and for Hollywood, right? And for her to be the first black actress to win that Oscar in that category, you know?

• 23:43Emma Grede?

  In that dress.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  You know, how could, how could, how could there possibly be a Zendaya without a Halle Berry? And for us to just do something as small as a hairstyle to pay homage to her, you know? Like, why not? I do think, I do look at it as a responsibility. And it is a responsibility for not, for me not to only tell stories of fashion, but to tell stories of how my culture has impacted fashion and pop culture. And now that I have a platform and I have a partner, Zendaya, that, that shares the importance of doing it, why not? And also, I just don't want my legacy to be like, oh, he was a good stylist and he put some pretty girls in pretty dresses. Like, there has to be more to the story.

• 24:28Speaker 01

  And I think that's, that's the more to the story. That I am doing things that are culturally important. And I am storytelling in a way that, that educates us, but also everyone else.

• 24:42Emma Grede?

  I do want to talk about trust and client relationships. And I think it's an important component of what you do that you have built these very deep relationships, both with the houses, but also with your clients. And I want to talk a little bit about how you think about those relationships, who you decide to work with and not. Like, how do you build relationships and how do you curate that in your professional life?

• 25:07Speaker 01

  Well, the relationships were built over time, right? But I think more important than building them is nurturing the relationships. I have a really great relationship to, that I, I do what I say and I say what I do, or however it goes. But if I, if someone makes me a dress for one of my clients and we don't use it, I will guarantee this house because I understand the resources that goes into it, the bandwidth that goes into it. I would guarantee that I will find a place for that dress.

• 25:37Emma Grede?

  Oh, last time you show?

• 25:38Speaker 01

  And everybody doesn't do that, you know? I'm gonna make sure somewhere down the line that you get a return on your investment when you work for me. And everybody knows that. One of the things that you probably, that people don't be like interested to know, like, a lot of clients, a lot of stylists hold hard clothes. So you'll send them clothes and you'll, and brands are bagging, bagging, bagging. I am very concise and I know what I'm gonna use. I know what I'm gonna use because I understand that these, that these PR teams are in the business of placing these clothes. So I've just built a great reputation of doing what I say, what I'm gonna do. And I'm like, okay, if you trust me, you send it. I'll have it back to you by this date. And, and that goes a long way. Thank yous go a long way. Someone just did something for me for Emmys.

• 26:24Speaker 01

  I'll just tell you the story. So we have a, we have a partnership with Rolex. And, you know, the dresses Zendaya wore to the Emmy, she has this Rolex that is perfect for the dress. But unfortunately, the, um, the link, something happened and she couldn't close it. And so I ran into Rolex. They was trying to fix their call. And they say, we, it's nothing we can do. And I'm like, because I respect our relationship with Rolex and I know how important it is for her as an ambassador to have this, this watch on at these moments. So he called me, he's like, there's nothing we can do. I said, you know what? Let's calm down. Let's think about it. There's always something. Let's let the universe work for us and call me back. He called me back and 20 minutes, he said, we figured it out. We fixed it. She got the watch, wore it.

• 27:08Speaker 01

  I made it my business to go the next day and just to stop in. And he's like, hey, Law, you know, God can help you with something. I said, no, I just came to say thank you. I said, I just came to say thank you for figuring it out. So it's those things. It's the human touch. It's really showing people you appreciate them. It's not only sending some flowers, but also calling and just say, thank you for making that work for me. And I've done that my entire career. So people, when I call, people answer the phone and they know that, that whatever they do for me is gonna be reciprocated. If they need a favour, they need something from me, I'm gonna try to do it. If I say I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna try to do it. And I'm always in a, in a place of ultimate gratitude when people bend over backwards and make things happen for me and my clients.

• 27:52Emma Grede?

  I, I'm, I mean, I'm dying that you even say that because, listen, at the risk of sounding presumptuous, I don't think that's what we think about when we think about Law because we think about a much more sassy side of you. And I have said for the longest time that when you don't have anything... Something that you can consistently count on is your reputation. How people think about you in business, in life will say so much about how people wanna work with you, how when your chips are down, things change. And so it's interesting to me that you put so much effort into building a reputation that will precede you. Do you know what I mean? Because again, there's one thing on the outside, it's a very different way of actually doing business.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  Because reputation and persona is different. Like, the persona is one thing, you know what I mean? That's one thing, but the reputation is different. Like, yes, I am a diva, yes, I am quick wit and, you know, all these things. But when it comes to my business, protecting my business, protecting my clients, I'm a totally different person. Totally different person. And people in this industry will tell you that. But I am a diva and I do demand a certain type of service. And when something isn't right, I will pick up the phone and I will call, you know. But for the most part, the other part that people know me for is just, is just the persona that I built for myself.

• 29:15Emma Grede?

  Totally, but arguably, you couldn't have one without the other.

• 29:18Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 29:18Emma Grede?

  You couldn't go around acting like diva without having that other side of you and be so successful.

• 29:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:24Emma Grede?

  Right?

• 29:25Speaker 01

  Without the work.

• 29:25Emma Grede?

  It's like you, you, you have to do both.

• 29:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:27Emma Grede?

  Interesting. So Laura, when you're taking on a new client, what are you evaluating?

• 29:32Speaker 01

  Um, since we're talking about money, can they afford me?

• 29:38Emma Grede?

  How expensive are you, Laura?

• 29:40Speaker 01

  You have to, I mean, I wanna, I wanna work with people that can afford the service because I know the way I work. You know, I know the way I work, I know how hard I work. I know that if, if my client is looking for whatever, Galliano from such and such, I know that me and my team can find it, you know, and that, that, that's a lot of, it's just a lot of work. It's a lot of research. Before I left, we were doing a deck for a client that, that was buying a vintage and we went and found every single runway photo so she can know exactly what she's wearing, if she wants to talk about it. You know, it, it's a lot of work. I work really, really, really, really hard. You know, I go to my fittings, right? If I have multiple clients, I go and I try to zip every dress, you know what I mean?

• 30:24Speaker 01

  Like, if I have 10 people at the Met Gala, I make sure I see all 10 the day of. And, and most of the time, I'm going myself. So, you know, I, I, I work and I think that, that I should be paid for that level of work at a certain, at a premium.

• 30:37Emma Grede?

  But it's not just the money, because otherwise you'd have a book full of like billionaire ladies. There must be other criteria aside from they've got the money to work for you.

• 30:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's also if I see, if I see, if I see potential, you know.

• 30:50Emma Grede?

  I mean, because I, not, there's not many like Zendaya's out there.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  But there is, there has to be, and I'm searching for her.

• 30:57Emma Grede?

  Okay, good luck to you.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  I'm searching for her, you know.

• 31:01Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  I think, I think a unicorn comes, can maybe come once every decade or something, but you know, I'm searching for that. I'm, I'm looking for the next girl that, that, that I can be by her side and help cultivate the career and help her make good decisions and, and the elegance and all those things that, that I was, you know, fortunate enough to be was Zendaya's so young to help her learn, you know.

• 31:22Emma Grede?

  So what makes you wanna work with someone versus not wanna work with someone?

• 31:26Speaker 01

  I don't wanna work with anybody who I feel doesn't really need me, you know. I have to have a phone call and there has to be, well, I wanna change this or I wanna try this or I need somebody to push me this way. I wanna do that, you know, and I wanna work with people that I can learn from, you know. Cause me, now I'm in a place where like I'm looking for people who can advise me on things financially or just spiritually even, you know what I mean? Like, I wanna work with people that have knowledge in other areas that I'm, that I'm trying to grow and learn, learn in, you know.

• 32:04Emma Grede?

  I mean, we just saw you started to work with Kim, how exciting.

• 32:07Speaker 01

  Love, yeah, yeah. And, you know, and we, I had a fitting with her and she was just like, you're gonna have to push me, you know. But, but that's, that was my signal that she, that she wanted or she felt like she needed something that I can bring. You know, a different perspective to who, who, who I think Kim Kardashian is, right? You know what I mean? And so that, that's what made me wanna work with her.

• 32:28Emma Grede?

  Is working with someone like that who is so high profile, who has worn so many things

• 32:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:35Emma Grede?

  and been so visible for so many years.

• 32:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:37Emma Grede?

  Is that daunting to you?

• 32:39Speaker 01

  Little bit, little bit because I wanna, because again, it goes back to how serious I take my work, you know, and I wanna add value. And if I don't think I can add value, I'm leaving. I'm just, I'm just, I can't do it.

• 32:53Emma Grede?

  Fair enough.

• 32:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:53Emma Grede?

  I was reading in my prep that Kiki fired you at some point.

• 32:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:58Emma Grede?

  But you said you kinda deserved it.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  Actually, I couldn't get it right. I couldn't get it right. And it's to me, that was personal, I love Kiki to death. It wasn't personal, it was a business decision that she should have made. I couldn't get the looks right, I couldn't get the energy right. And it was like she made a business decision to fire me and I love what she said. She called me, she said, you may be the best stylist in the world, but you are not the best stylist for me. And I said, well, all right, Kiki Palmer.

• 33:24Emma Grede?

  I mean, that says a lot about someone who knows themselves.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 33:27Emma Grede?

  Right? I love that, I love that. Again, especially at being so young and getting to work with like the gold standard. That tells me that she knows who she is.

• 33:35Speaker 01

  She knows exactly who she needs and what she wanted. And I couldn't deliver and I'm not mad at it.

• 33:40Emma Grede?

  It's unbelievable that you couldn't deliver. And what can you do? What was you getting wrong?

• 33:44Speaker 01

  She was pregnant and she was lying about being pregnant. And this lady had me hiding, putting her in all these clothes, hiding this baby bump and everybody in the world knew she was pregnant and she didn't wanna tell anybody, which was her choice. But I couldn't, I just couldn't, because for me, I'm like, oh, you're pregnant, I wanna dress the bump and I wanna do these things. And I was excited about that and I had the stories to tell about that. And she didn't want that and she didn't let me. But it's, it was her experience and her decision to tell, tell everybody she was pregnant when she wanted to do it.

• 34:14Emma Grede?

  Fair.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  And so I couldn't get it right.

• 34:16Emma Grede?

  No.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  I tell that story all the time with pride that she was, she made a great business decision, a great business decision.

• 34:23Emma Grede?

  Fair enough.

• 34:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:30Emma Grede?

  A good sales call is not just about what happens in the meeting. It's everything you know going in, how present you can be while you're in it and how quickly the right next step gets captured afterwards. That is where a lot of teams lose time. The conversation might be strong, but then someone has to go back through notes, update the CRM, remember what was promised and make sure nothing gets missed. That is where Pipe Drive comes in. Pipe Drive is an intelligent AI-powered sales CRM loved by growing sales teams. And it now has meeting intelligence built right into the CRM. Before a call, Pipe Drive can pull together deal history, email records and previous conversations into one pre-meeting brief, so the team knows exactly where things were left off.

• 35:15Emma Grede?

  During the meeting, the built-in meeting intelligence tool can record and take notes so that you can stay focused on the conversation. And afterward, Pipe Drive turns those notes into auto-drafted CRM updates, ready for you to review and approve. The result is less time chasing admin around the sale and more time focused on the actual relationship. Switch to a CRM built by salespeople for salespeople and join the over 100,000 companies already using Pipe Drive. Now, my link gets you an exclusive 30 days free instead of the usual 14-day trial. No credit card or payment needed. Just head to pipedrive.com/aspire to get started. That's pipedrive.com/aspire and you can be up and running in minutes.

• 36:05Emma Grede?

  It seems like the single best business decision that you've ever made in your life was banking that Zendaya would be who she is.

• 36:14Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 36:15Emma Grede?

  I have so much appreciation for the work that you guys do together. And I wonder how you keep challenging one another and you make it feel brand new and fresh? Cause it's very clear to me that you two are enjoying one another, that you're enjoying what you do. But how do you like, how do you keep that fresh and keep going?

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Because there's always a new story to tell. And we have this thing that, that we, we figured out about each other like years ago. She's very, she's a Virgo, so she's very small details. And I'm a Cancer and I'm very big ideas, right? And so I, I dream these big stories or whatever and she comes in, she fine tunes it. I'm like, oh, okay, well, you need to, you need to cut all your hair off and, and be bald and do it. And she's like, I'm not gonna do that.

• 37:03Emma Grede?

  You cut your hair?

• 37:04Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do it. But what we can do is this. And so it's just, we've grown up together, you know, and so it's, it's just this, we have this super trust and she trusts me and I trust her to, to kinda wrangle me in, right? People think it's like, oh, she wears whatever he tells her to wear, that is not true. We fight and, and we fight and, and I know when to let go and she knows when to let go. And when I really believe in something, I tell her like, I'm gonna fight to, I'm fighting for this because I believe in it. I don't wanna say it's a perfect relationship because I don't think anything is perfect, but it's as close to a perfect relationship as I possibly can get.

• 37:42Emma Grede?

  I mean, it, it definitely feels like that from the outside. But do you ever worry that actually being so closely associated with one client will actually make it difficult to separate your career from theirs?

• 37:52Speaker 01

  I think, I think I've done a good job of separating my career from her career, but still at the same time, it being so synonymous. We are two different people with two different sets of values, right? Like, she is very quiet and very private and I am not that. But me maintaining her privacy, like even with the wedding, like people are still asking me about the wedding. You know what I mean? I'm like, as long as you keep asking me about this wedding, you're gonna get a different answer every single time. Would I have wished that she had been a little bit more public with the wedding because she was?

• 38:31Speaker 01

  Allegedly, she was one of the most beautiful brides I've ever seen. That is really my sister and the way she's taken care of me, you know, financially and made sure that I was a part of decision making in her career and her fashion career and the ambassadorships and the deals that she take and her, you know, including me in those and making sure that that I am paid for my involvement and, you know, I mean, she talks about it all the time. Like any fashion deal that she does, I'm included in those deals.

• 39:04Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 39:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm included in those deals.

• 39:05Emma Grede?

  Which is, I mean, listen, we all know it, it's been said before, but it is extraordinary. I don't know that I know, having done, I think, probably more celebrity partnership deals than anyone on the planet. Thousands and thousands of them.

• 39:18Speaker 01

  It's never existed.

• 39:18Emma Grede?

  I ain't never seen no one cut their stylist's. Stylist gets paid, but not cut in, like.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  It's never existed. So we've set a standard for, we disrupted the industry. We literally disrupted the industry and now anybody who knows, they know this is a part of it. If you don't get one without the other and for her to turn down things. She was like, oh no, if, if, if he's not coming, I'm not doing it.

• 39:44Emma Grede?

  But it's actually like she would turn down things if you're not cutting.

• 39:47Speaker 01

  And still, it still does. And still does because what she understands that I'm going to protect her in that, you know what I mean? And also my creativity goes into those things as well, right?

• 40:00Emma Grede?

  You ever feel bad about that though, Laura? Are there things, like, are there things that come to her where you're like, you know what, you should just do it? Don't worry about me.

• 40:06Speaker 01

  Because she doesn't feel bad about it. Because she also comes from a mindset that the money will come and the money has came.

• 40:12Emma Grede?

  And so it does.

• 40:13Speaker 01

  You know?

• 40:14Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 40:14Speaker 01

  She's always been such an old soul and she's had this, this sense of discernment way more than me. Because I see some of the deals, I'm like, you're crazy. You know what I mean? Way more than me. She's like, no, no, no, no money, it'll come, it'll come. And, and, and it came and it keeps coming and, and for her to have changed my lifestyle in that way is incredible, incredible. And we, again, we disrupted the industry. Because these brands were like, no, and she was like, no.

• 40:44Emma Grede?

  Fair enough. So let's talk about the business of Laura Roach.

• 40:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:47Emma Grede?

  Because this is the juicy bit, the bit that I love the most. I loved it when you created the term image architect because stylists no longer covered the remit of what you were fully doing. And you went out and you trademarked it again. I absolutely love that. Can you talk me through what that actually encompasses? Because when you say it, I don't know that people have a full appreciation and I want to know it from your point of view. Like, what does that look like, the business of Laura Roach today?

• 41:13Speaker 01

  For me, because I had been so independent in, in my business, like, I never really had, I've never had a manager, I never really had an agent outside of my styling agent and so.

• 41:28Emma Grede?

  Oh, you didn't?

• 41:29Speaker 01

  No.

• 41:30Emma Grede?

  There was no broader team?

• 41:31Speaker 01

  No, there was, it was, it was me being a part of her team and then taking everything I learned from being a part of that team and running my team.

• 41:38Emma Grede?

  Smart.

• 41:39Speaker 01

  You know, and it was like me being in the same room, in the, in the right rooms and, and marketing myself to, to, to build my business. And I think that this year, what I figured out is important for me to build, to build a team. Because I can't do it all on my own. I was tired, you know, and there's so many things that I want to do that I need that person to pick up the phone and call and, and do these things. But I mean, I got so good that like, I'm like, oh, I know this person. And, and so then also now that I'm building my team, I also have to be able to humble myself and let them try. But, you know, again, pulling from everything I learned on the streets of Chicago, I'm like, I'm a hustler. I found that person. I found her myself, you know?

• 42:24Speaker 01

  I'll find them, I'll figure out where they're going to be. I'll bump into them in an elevator and I'll say, hey, you know.

• 42:29Emma Grede?

  Yes.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  I'll do it all myself because I just felt like, not that I was the smartest person in a room, but I think I was the most savvy. And so I used that to just get to the places where I wanted to be.

• 42:41Emma Grede?

  So what do you think has changed now that you understand the value around being Laura Roach? Like, what have you actually understood?

• 42:48Speaker 01

  I understand that, that I am a bankable brand and I know how to make money and I know how to attract money. And I understand that I need, I need to build out, you know, this infrastructure that, that could help me do that.

• 43:04Emma Grede?

  I heard that you actually made like a former assistant of yours an equity partner in what you're doing. So I, I'm interested to understand like what you're building and how you think about what you can do within the kind of world of Laura Roach.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, so we, so we're still working on that actually. So what I, what I figured out aside of like, I needed to be able to scale myself. And which is so hard and so difficult to do. And so when this business, it enabled for me to get the business, because to be quite honest, if we're talking about money, once I hit my peak, I was, I was making four to five million a year just as a stylist. Nothing else, just the work and.

• 43:47Emma Grede?

  That's a lot of fucking days and people and stuff, yeah.

• 43:51Speaker 01

  And for me, to, for me.

• 43:52Emma Grede?

  To rack up four to five million as a stylist, I don't care how much you're getting paid. That's, that's like working three, six, five days a year.

• 44:00Speaker 01

  And that's what it was. And that was part of the burnout. So I figured out in order to style myself, that I need to, to, to, to find people that can work at my caliber, at my level and to give them equity in the business. But also the problem with that is like, because my bedside manner is so special, that's what I can't teach. So we're still figuring that out. But yeah, that, that is high on the list of priorities to, to figure that out. If I continue to want to rebuild the business, which is happening actually.

• 44:31Emma Grede?

  I love it. I mean, there's so much you can do, but what do you, what do you really want? Like when you think about where you are now, you're seemingly kind of like on top of the world. Do you, do you have ambition for like something else?

• 44:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I want to, I want to build out, I want to build out brands. I want to be able to sell things, you know? I want to, I want to have a lifestyle brand. Like I want, I want to do everything. I want to, I, I just met someone who, who builds hotels and he was like, well, how can I support you? I'm like, I want to design your hotels, you know, I want to do that. But then I want to, I want to own hotels, you know, I want to do everything. I think, I think what I've, what I've done is been able to become, you know, this, this person, this symbol of like taste and, you know, and I want to monetize that.

• 45:14Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 45:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:15Emma Grede?

  I was excited when I heard a little rumor that you were gonna, I think it was like, was it Ungaro? Did I make it up?

• 45:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:21Emma Grede?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 45:23Speaker 01

  I should have called you because I needed some help with some financing.

• 45:25Emma Grede?

  Do you know, it's so funny because they'd already, they had already called us and now it's just like, oh yeah, maybe that's not the brand. But you know, there's, there's definitely like something in there that would have made a lot of sense for you, I thought.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, because it's, it's what attracted to me to it is that just the idea of, of me coming and actually owning a, a French couturier.

• 45:48Emma Grede?

  A house.

• 45:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 45:49Emma Grede?

  A house with a history and an archive and a.

• 45:53Speaker 01

  That's me, that's my soul. But I'm also not afraid to like make mistakes. That, that was a deal, that was something which kind of happened. The infrastructure I had built kind of, you know, just to be quite honest, kind of, kind of had crumbled a little bit. The financing had crumbled a little bit, but you know what? I gave it a shot.

• 46:07Emma Grede?

  You gave it a shot.

• 46:08Speaker 01

  And I learned a lot.

• 46:09Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 46:09Speaker 01

  I learned a lot. I had never, never went into a, went into a situation where, you know, to due diligence and, and to look at all these things, you know? So I learned and I just take that as a learning experience. I'm not, also not afraid to say that something didn't work out. I'm not hiding behind.

• 46:28Emma Grede?

  No.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  You know?

• 46:29Emma Grede?

  No, but listen, most things don't work out.

• 46:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:32Emma Grede?

  Well, you should have called me though. That would have been sensible.

• 46:39Emma Grede?

  One thing I always tell founders is this, the idea is only the beginning. The real work is turning that idea into something that people can actually find, buy from, come back to and trust. That is where Shopify matters. Shopify is the commerce platform we use at Good American and it gives you the tools to build and run your business in one place. Your storefront, your checkout, your customer relationships, your data and the systems behind it. Now, what I like about Shopify is that it lets you own the center of your business while still reaching customers wherever they are. You can build your storefront, but you can also sell across the places people are already discovering products. From social platforms to the shop app. That really matters right now because the gap between attention and purchase is everything.

• 47:23Emma Grede?

  If someone discovers your brand, you do not want a complicated path between interest and checkout. Shopify helps make that path so much smoother. Shop Pay is a great example. It gives customers a faster checkout experience, which means fewer moments for people to drop off before they complete the purchase. For founders, Shopify also has tools like Sidekick, their AI business assistant, which can help with things like analyzing sales trends, creating discounts and understanding what's happening in the business. So whether you're just starting or already growing, Shopify gives you the infrastructure to look professional, move quickly and keep control of what you're building.

• 48:02Emma Grede?

  If you're ready to start a business of your own, go to Shopify.com/aspire and see what Shopify can help you accomplish. I don't feel like fall dressing has to mean starting your wardrobe over. Usually the smarter move is taking the pieces you already wear and adding one or two things that makes everything feel new again. That is the whole idea behind the fashion remix at Macy's this season. For me, the easiest place to start is a trench coat. A trench is one of those pieces that works across almost everything. You can put it on over jeans, a blouse, a skirt, a boot, a loafer and somehow the whole outfit feels more pulled together. For a weekend brunch, I'd wear it with dark wash denim, a draped knit top, leather loafers and a shoulder bag.

• 48:47Emma Grede?

  Easy, but still polished. For working into evening plans, I'd pair the trench with a crisp white blouse, a dark jean, ankle boots and a classic bag. It feels sharp enough for the day, but still works if you're going straight to dinner or drinks. And for an actual dinner reservation, I'd go a little softer. A black blouse, a textured cream skirt, statement earrings and a high heeled knee high boot. This is what I love about a trench. It does not have to be the loudest piece in the outfit. It just makes everything else feel more considered. Head to your nearest Macy's store or go to macy's.com to shop online now.

• 49:26Emma Grede?

  Let's talk about money because this is my favorite subject and something that you never shy away from. I read earlier on in your career, I feel like, I don't know, you were making a hundred and twenty grand, you had these giant tax bills. I wonder, like, obviously that kind of crept up on you, what have you put in place since the early days that have helped you get control of your finances? And how do you think about money? Being from the South Side of Chicago, not having grown up with very much, and now seemingly sitting on a lot and a lot of opportunity, what's your relationship like to money?

• 49:58Speaker 01

  Well, I think the most important thing about that is you have to have a good relationship with money. You have to, you have to speak about money and speak to money in a certain way. I am the type of person, I can, I know I attract money. You know what I mean? I attract money and I've also learned how to not hold on to a way of saving it, but hold on to a way of keeping it close, right? Because if you, there's a lot of stories that people can attract money, but they can't hold on to it. Like, there's so many stories about people winning millions and millions and millions of dollars in the lottery because they believe that they should have it and they attract it, but they can't hold on to it.

• 50:40Emma Grede?

  I feel a little bit like this myself, but when you grow up in survival mode, right? It gives you a very specific relationship with money and I wonder how you've been able to untangle that.

• 50:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, I mean, I think growing up in a situation, you always have that, I talk about this a lot as well, is like, that feeling of never, never, I know what it feels like to go to bed hungry. I know what it feels like to cry because your stomach is rumbling and I'm the oldest of five and it just wasn't enough, you know? I know what that feels like. I know what it feels like to be nine years old and go into the shopping market, the supermarket and ask people, can you carry their bags to the car? To make a dollar anyway, you know, I know what that feels like. And the motivation is to never have to feel that way again. So I think that's, that's the way a lot of us work so hard.

• 51:34Speaker 01

  We work so hard not to ever go back or we work so hard to run from a situation. And so then I also have to change my mindset to say that, no, I'm not running from that anymore. I feel it, it's still there. I know what it feels like. I never want to do that again, but I'm not working just for that reason. I'm working to build abundance.

• 51:55Emma Grede?

  Well, and I kind of look at your relationship with Zendaya and clearly she's been such a kind of pivotal and she's had a critical role in making sure that people don't just value your work, but that they also pay you for it. And I wonder what that's actually taught you about the difference between someone who likes what you do and is willing to actually pay for it and value you in the right way?

• 52:19Speaker 01

  But that's the only people I want to work with, I work for. You have to, you have to value it and you have to pay for it. And if not, I just don't have to do it.

• 52:27Emma Grede?

  So tell me about this because I've heard you say, like, your work on Challengers, for example, you were like, hang about, I should have been compensated beyond the styling fee, you know, because again, the work and the impact that you're having was so kind of monstrous. Has that changed the way that you go into a negotiation?

• 52:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, and it's steady changing because, you know, you're dealing with these studios and it's again, it's me disrupting that system of like, oh, this is what you get a thousand dollars a look and it is what it is. And I'm like, no, because now there's metrics to support, the numbers don't lie. The numbers are saying what we do on this press tour is actually putting, filling seats. So now, now I have to fight a little, I have to fight for more because I know, I know that I have numbers to support it, right? And so again, it's me coming in and trying to disrupt another billion, a multi-billion dollar industry to say, no, you have to pay me for these things now.

• 53:26Emma Grede?

  But tell me what that conversation looks like, Greg, because I can imagine being on the other side, as I have been in many of these negotiations, someone like you comes along and says, look what we do, I'm going to dress her in X, Y and Z and the media are going to go crazy and the value attributed to that is X, Y and Z and therefore I need this. But there's no guarantee, so how are you actually having those conversations?

• 53:47Speaker 01

  Well, the conversation is that I tell, I tell my agents to say, if I'm not paid this way, that I won't do it. And then I have, I have a partner who also says, you need to pay him what he's asking for because this, we know it works.

• 54:03Emma Grede?

  Are you reaping the benefits of the impact that you're having?

• 54:08Speaker 01

  This, this, this, this, what you're asking is a slow fight. It's a slow fight, right? Because we figured it out with Challengers. We figured it out with Challengers because we went into certain retailers and we saw tennis court in the front of the stores, right?

• 54:24Emma Grede?

  We were all doing it. I was like, rearrange the homepage, bitches. They said tennis.

• 54:30Speaker 01

  We see, we saw designers doing things that, like, we saw the effect, right? So that was like the test market, like, oh, okay. We constantly see it and now, now we know for a fact that, like, we know that me putting Zendaya in the Mugler dress for June 2 made people who didn't know anything about that series go see the movie. We know that putting Zendaya in the fecal matter with the wings, people didn't know anything about Odyssey, but they knew what Zendaya's character was and they wanted to go see that, you know? So we know these things, so it's a slow fight. It's a slow fight that I'm willing to have so that other stylists who do the same thing

• 55:12Speaker 01

  and the same work at the same caliber can also reap the benefits of me fighting. It's legacy.

• 55:19Emma Grede?

  Yes, Laura. No, it is. It really is. And I think that some, you know, somebody has to go first.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna, I can't, I can't do it for, I can't do it for the same rate that, that somebody that's just gonna just pick a dress and put it on. And no, no shade to that person, but what we do is storytelling. It's also, you saw it with the drama, that was an independent film, that movie was not supposed to make the money that, it was not projected to make the money it was. But that, that press tour, that something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue.

• 55:53Emma Grede?

  Crazy.

• 55:54Speaker 01

  Made people want to go see that movie.

• 55:56Emma Grede?

  I never thought about the movie until I saw the outfits. I'll just be honest. Just didn't care. By the way, it was a cracking movie. It was so good.

• 56:03Speaker 01

  Beautiful movie.

• 56:04Emma Grede?

  It was so good.

• 56:05Speaker 01

  Stressful.

• 56:06Emma Grede?

  No, it was stressful. It was very stressful.

• 56:08Speaker 01

  But you didn't know what that movie was going to be about, but what you knew is that there was going to be a wedding and you saw the clothes and it's like, it's just, it's a slow fight, but it's a fight that I'm willing to have. But I'm never going to stop doing it for her because also Challengers and the drama was two of her breakout roles as a leading lady. So of course I'm gonna, I'm gonna work to the ends of earth to make sure that I can do everything to help her be successful in those roles, right?

• 56:38Emma Grede?

  There is that too. I was, I was looking at the fact that you and your agent bought School of Style in or around 2024 and one of the courses is finances, which I really love. What was the impetus behind that, other than you, like, just wanting to, you know, think about your legacy? Like, why would you do that?

• 56:56Speaker 01

  Because, because the story that you told earlier is like, when I first started making money, I had no idea about taxes. And when you're a free, when you're a freelancer, you have to equate for the money you're making and it's like, when you make a certain amount of money, they take a lot, they take a lot of money and I just didn't know. So I thought that it would be really important for, for me to have a section of the courses that just focuses on that. You know, it's like, you know, you, you, as I learn and as I grow, I, you know, I teach. At least I try to, you know?

• 57:30Emma Grede?

  No, I feel like you're doing a good, you're doing a great job teaching. How are you thinking about ownership outside of fashion?

• 57:37Speaker 01

  I'm trying, I'm trying to build this team, I'm trying, I am, I'm trying because it has to be, I mean, I can't do, I can't do what I'm doing. I don't want to do it forever, but I think, I think the way I've set my career up is for me to be able to, to branch off into do certain, to do other things, you know? I want to do everything. I want fashion, I want to do lifestyle, I want to do hospitality, I want to do everything. And I think that it's just the team building and I'm being very honest and very vulnerable right now.

• 58:10Emma Grede?

  But I appreciate it a little because I do think as somebody that has been obsessed with fashion since I was six years old, there is this like reality of some of the biggest names, right? Like, we don't have to name names, but when you think about, like, just think about the models, right? When you think about the names that have, literally, they don't even need a surname and the fact that they haven't necessarily built brands around them, right? They were the face of everything and then seemingly kind of nothing. And it does feel like a very complicated business to take outside the realms of like, whatever you're doing. If you're a stylist, you're a stylist, you're a model, if you're a model, if you're a designer, you have your moment until you're out and then you vanish into obscurity. So it is a tough business to create outside of.

• 58:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, because it's like, where's the Kathy Ireland's? You know, it's like, it's like, she's a billion dollar business. You know what I mean? Like, and I do understand, I do understand the mass market and I want to be there, like, I want to be, because I'm really, I'm really about the people. Like, I love, like, going out and being in the streets and being in stores and being with people. And I understand that it's hard to teach someone in, in South Side of Chicago or Indiana or any of these places that they need to buy the $50 t-shirt when they can only afford the $5 t-shirt and why can't I give them the $5 t-shirt with the, with the, with the feeling of the $50 t-shirt and with the story behind it? You know what I mean?

• 59:36Speaker 01

  Like, and I understand that, it's just that, again, being vulnerable, I'm looking And I'm searching for this team that sees something in me and believes in me and wants to come and make money with me, you know?

• 59:48Emma Grede?

  Yeah.

• 59:48Speaker 01

  That's all.

• 59:49Emma Grede?

  Absolutely. Well, I love, that's why I love this ASOS partnership for you. Because I saw that you've become the stylist in residence.

• 59:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 59:55Emma Grede?

  Amazing.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  Yes. And that's part of it because me partnering with ASOS and, and, and doing this, I think what it does is it brings me down a notch, right? Because it's like, oh yeah, he's at the couture shows, but yes, but now he's also thinking about fashion in a way that is democratized for me. And so that's, that's one of the steps for me to move, to move into a different way.

• 1:00:19Emma Grede?

  You said before that like, it's okay sometimes just to be still. What does that even look like for you these days?

• 1:00:26Speaker 01

  Some of the best advice I've ever, I've ever gotten. And being still can, can, can go in a lot of different ways, right? Being still is the stillness in the morning with the meditating, right? That's your time just to be still. And also for me, for me retiring and, and going away for the five, six, seven months I went away for, that was me being still. And I think that when you are still in, in spirit and thought, that so many things open up for you. You, it's like you just get to see things from a different perspective. And I just, uh, this, this woman told me that she's like, she said, baby, sometimes you just gotta be still. And whatever that means for you, you know? Um, being still is pulling, driving and just pulling over for a second and taking a minute

• 1:01:10Speaker 01

  to think and, and, and just, and just let the universe show you things. Cause I think, I think in those moments, things come to you, you know?

• 1:01:20Emma Grede?

  Yeah, they do. What comes to you?

• 1:01:22Speaker 01

  A lot of things, a lot of things when, when I, when I make that time, it's, it's a great, a great idea comes to me when I'm still, a, a, a great outfit can come to me. When I, when I'm still a, a calmness over my, my anxiety of, you know?

• 1:01:43Speaker 01

  Just every, everything and it's still can be, still can be sixty seconds or still can be a week.

• 1:01:49Emma Grede?

  Hmm.

• 1:01:50Speaker 01

  You know, but I think it's important to, just to, just to be still.

• 1:01:54Emma Grede?

  What keeps you awake at night at this point in your life and career?

• 1:01:57Speaker 01

  Working, working on, on these clients, searching for these clothes and these archive pieces and calling designers and, and asking for customs and, and talking to my assistants and, and, and just being excited, being excited about the possibilities, you know? About the deals that, that's, that's coming. You know, one thing I want to say on this, on this podcast, I think this is the, the perfect place to, to say it. I am not going to apologize to anybody for the lifestyle that I've built for myself. And I think that what's happening, what has started happening to me is that people, people

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  have started to, not that I care, but I do, I do notice it and I pay attention to it. People have put me in this place where, that I'm supposed to be apologetic for carrying a, a, a air mass bag or having a great watch or flying private to do things like, I remember a time in my life when I was with my, with my brothers and sisters. And I remember going to, I'll never forget this and this, and I'm not gonna feel a certain type of way of telling the story, but I remember going, being in this apartment and we, you know, we had a, a infestation of bugs, right?

• 1:03:19Speaker 01

  And I remember going, and we used to put everything in a refrigerator because we thought the refrigerator was safe. And I remember going to like make my sisters and brothers and myself a bowl of cereal. And I remember pouring the cereal in a bowl and roaches running out.

• 1:03:32Emma Grede?

  Oy.

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  And I remember having to make the decision whether or not we were still gonna eat that cereal, right? And so for me to have come from that, I will not apologize for the lifestyle that I have built for myself. And you know, there was a lot of flack about me going to Paris on a private jet to get that dress for Zendaya. I paid for that jet.

• 1:03:57Speaker 01

  I spent my money and paid for that jet to go because I was missing a dress for her and I wanted her to have that dress. And the way that I can make it happen for her is for me to pay for that jet and went to go. And I'm not gonna apologize for that. And I want to make that very clear, that I am not going to apologize for the lifestyle that I built for myself.

• 1:04:18Emma Grede?

  First of all, I, I love that you say that. And I think you address something more broadly that's happening in the culture, which is, you know, and I, I see it so clearly because I had my fair amount of backlash this year myself. And what happens, I think, is that, you know, listen, Laura, you don't live in a vacuum. You are very aware.

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  Very.

• 1:04:37Emma Grede?

  That people are suffering, right? Like we're in a very interesting climate right now where it does feel like the haves and the have nots.

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:45Emma Grede?

  And because you are a man of the people, right? Because you're from the south side of Chicago and you speak how you do and you move like you do. I think people feel so much like they can relate to you. And so when they see something like that, they're just like, oh, wait a minute. And I, I think like there'll be so many people that fully support your choices.

• 1:05:04Speaker 01

  And my success and my, and my wealth is very new, is very, very new. And I'm like, what happened to, you know, seeing this, this black man that grew up in, on section A and food stamps and my mother died and I worked at bars and, and I did all these things to now be able to have this lifestyle. What happens to being able to look at that and like, if my whole thing is, I've, I've always said, I am not special. If I can do it, you can do it too. And it's just like, when did we lose that? You know what I mean? I don't do it. I really show my lifestyle because I can be really private about it because I do want to inspire people, especially people, the people who look like me, who are from where I'm from, where I'm from.

• 1:05:47Speaker 01

  It's like, I, if I did it, you can do it too. And that's what it, that's what it is for me. You know what I mean? It's not the stuff. It's never the stuff. It's never, it's the ability to acquire the stuff and not to worry about it. And I think that's the feeling that I want to give people.

• 1:06:03Emma Grede?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Like other people do it, these other, these girls that, that parents are rich and all that, they do it, they on the yachts and all that, and nobody says anything about them. But it's like, when is, when, when did I stop being congratulated for working my ass off to get there? You know? And people don't know what I do behind the scenes to help people. People don't know who I give money to. People don't know any about, anything about that. And I'll never talk about that because if you hate me for, for being successful, then so be it. Just hate me, but still be inspired.

• 1:06:33Emma Grede?

  But be inspired.

• 1:06:34Speaker 01

  Be inspired.

• 1:06:34Emma Grede?

  It's the whole reason that I love to speak to people about their journey, especially people that have done all the work.

• 1:06:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:42Emma Grede?

  That knew all the references, that bring their whole heart and their soul and all their energy and their vibes and their force of self and their personality into their work. Because to me, I think it is the most inspiring thing.

• 1:06:54Speaker 01

  I am only, that's all I want to do is show people that's what's possible. And I say it all the time.

• 1:07:00Emma Grede?

  Well, you are. That's exactly what I think. Laura, my last question before we move to rapid fire. What do you still aspire to be or to become?

• 1:07:10Speaker 01

  I want to, I, I really want to say, I think I am a mogul in some aspect of my career and what I do. But I look at people at, at like you who are doing so many things and, and like so many investments and, and these funds and, and these, you know, founders and, and, and launching things and doing all those things. Like I want to do that. Like I want to walk into the building that I bought and, you know?

• 1:07:37Emma Grede?

  Who, me?

• 1:07:38Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 1:07:38Emma Grede?

  Who, me?

• 1:07:39Speaker 01

  That is so aspirational to me. It's like, and have, and have a staff of people who could depend on me and they know that their check is gonna be there every two weeks and like, and, and have all these things. I just want to try so much and I'm not afraid to fail because I know like a lot of, a lot of being successful, especially, you know, in new ventures and stuff, a lot of this, what is, what's the ratio, like two out of ever, however many works? And I'm not afraid of that. You know what I mean? My risk tolerance is really high, you know? But I want to try. I just want to try. I want to try to be a mogul and I want to, and I want to build this generational wealth, even though I don't have any kids or anybody to leave the money to really. I, I want to try. I just want to do, I want to do as much as possible on this time that I have left.

• 1:08:25Emma Grede?

  You're still very ambitious.

• 1:08:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:27Emma Grede?

  Good for you. I love it. All right, we're moving to rapid fire. Okay. What's a fashion trend you're happy to never see again?

• 1:08:37Speaker 01

  I don't know because I really, to be quite honest, I just really never really pay attention to trends.

• 1:08:42Emma Grede?

  Hmm.

• 1:08:42Speaker 01

  You know, I used to be so against the naked dress and now I'm like kind of into them, you know what I mean? So I really don't have one.

• 1:08:48Emma Grede?

  Watch this space. Um, what is worth spending money on and what is never worth spending on?

• 1:08:54Speaker 01

  Worth spending money on is a really, really, really good meal. A beautiful meal. Yeah.

• 1:09:02Emma Grede?

  Oh, my favorite.

• 1:09:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:04Emma Grede?

  That, that like, I'm such a foodie, like I will always spend money on food.

• 1:09:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:07Emma Grede?

  What will you never spend money on?

• 1:09:09Speaker 01

  You know what I'm not into? Cars.

• 1:09:11Emma Grede?

  Really?

• 1:09:12Speaker 01

  I'm not into cars.

• 1:09:13Emma Grede?

  Me neither. I don't know which car is mine out of the fun. You know that?

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  No, it's, yeah.

• 1:09:19Emma Grede?

  And I totally understand that. But you like to be in a nice car.

• 1:09:22Speaker 01

  I don't even drive.

• 1:09:23Emma Grede?

  I don't drive either. No, I can't. You know, there's too many lanes on the LA roads for me. I can't deal with that. Oh, that's good to know. Okay. What's a piece in your archives that you would never sell?

• 1:09:35Speaker 01

  Any of it.

• 1:09:36Emma Grede?

  Really?

• 1:09:37Speaker 01

  I'm on order. Because I always say I'm shopping for my estate sale.

• 1:09:42Emma Grede?

  That's so morbid. I'll be there.

• 1:09:45Speaker 01

  If I ever get like terminally ill, like I want to be in my estate sale.

• 1:09:48Emma Grede?

  That's so, that's so morbid.

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  I'm collecting for the next me, you know?

• 1:09:53Emma Grede?

  Oh.

• 1:09:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:54Emma Grede?

  That's, that's so glorious. I love that. I'm morbid. Um, what's the most ridiculous thing that you've done to get your hands on a piece? I mean, it's pretty crazy that you flew your private.

• 1:10:07Speaker 01

  I flew my own show, the Scapelli Show. Snatched a dress off a model and got it back and got it on my girl so that she could wear it to that premiere.

• 1:10:15Emma Grede?

  I mean, that is crazy and it's, it's crazy that you paid for it. I, I actually can't even deal with that.

• 1:10:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:20Emma Grede?

  Um, Laura, is there a book that's changed your life?

• 1:10:24Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, you know, actually, The Secret by Roger Moore actually did change my life. And I, I read the book, but I also would listen to the audio book every single day until all the lessons became habitual for me. That I didn't have to listen to it anymore or study it. And, and also when I, when I feel like I need to recharge, I go back to those books. I go back to The Power. I go back to The Secret. I go back to those books. Yeah.

• 1:10:53Emma Grede?

  I love that.

• 1:10:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:55Emma Grede?

  Laura Roach, thank you very much.

• 1:10:56Speaker 01

  Well, thank you for having me.

• 1:11:01Emma Grede?

  If you're loving this podcast, be sure to click follow on your favorite listening platform. While you're there, give us a review and a five star rating and share an episode you loved with a friend. We'll be so grateful. Aspire with Emma Grede is presented by Odyssey. I'm your host, Emma Grede. Our executive producers are Ashley McShan, Derek Brown and me. Executive producers from Odyssey are Asha Saluja and Leah Reese Dennis. Producer KK Sublime. Stephen Key is our senior producer. Sound design and engineering by Bill Schultz. Angela Peluso is our booker. Original music by Charles Black. Video production by Phil Sweetech and Carla Stelgardo. Social media by Olivia Homan, Catherine Bale.

• 1:11:43Emma Grede?

  Special thanks to Brittany Smith, Sydney Ford, my teams at The Lead Company and WME. Josefina Francis, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Kate Hutchinson Rose, Tim Meekle, Evan Cox, Kirk Courtney, Andrew Steele, Sean Cherry. And Lauren Viera. If you have questions for me, you can DM me at aspirewithemmagreed. Grede is spelled G R E D E. That's aspire, A S P I R E with Emma Grede. Or you can submit a question to me on my website, emmagreed.me.