Rerelease: Walton Goggins

Walton Goggins (White Lotus, Fallout, Hateful Eight) is an Emmy-nominated actor. Walton joins the Armchair Expert to discuss no longer being willing to perpetuate cultural stereotypes of the south, being raised by the real Steel Magnolias, and sharing attraction to volatility on the edge of chaos. Walton and Dax talk about having wives that can walk with kings, the humiliation of poverty, and how an application for an American Express card changed the trajectory of his life. Walton explains loving lunatics, why time with his kid is worth more than any amount of money or success, and approaching his life with as much artistry and intention as he would a role. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ http://www.wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Rather and I'm joined by Leslie Stahl.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Oh my gosh.

• 0:06Dax Shepard?

  She comes up occasionally. Back in the old days, she would pop up a lot.

• 0:10Speaker 01

  That is high praise.

• 0:13Dax Shepard?

  Very high praise. I love Leslie Stahl.

• 0:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's great.

• 0:16Dax Shepard?

  She's a firecracker. Okay, long time coming. Number one current obsession as an actor going on three years now, probably Walton Goggins. Walton Goggins Goggle Glasses, Uncle Baby Billy's Bible Bonkers. This guy's an alliteration wet dream.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 0:35Dax Shepard?

  I love Walton Goggins.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  I mean, he's an incredible actor, but he was also a beautiful person.

• 0:40Dax Shepard?

  Such an interesting, colorful person. There should be a award for just best across the board actor. It's not on a single project and it's just, it's like best dramatic, best comic, whatever. There's just best actor and I think Walton would be the shoe in.

• 0:55Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 0:56Dax Shepard?

  Cause there's nobody doing comedy better and there's nobody doing drama better. Fallout, Justified, Righteous Gemstones, Vice Principals, The Hateful Eight. He stole The Hateful Eight, which is hard to do. That's a hell of a cast. Season three of The White Lotus. It wasn't enough. He was in my favorite comedy show, Righteous Gemstone, or that he was in my favorite action show Fallout. Now he had to join my favorite dramedy, White Lotus.

• 1:23Speaker 01

  He hits all the genres.

• 1:24Dax Shepard?

  What a dick. Also Walton Goggins Goggle Glasses. Learn more at gogginsgoggles.com.

• 1:30Speaker 01

  You'll hear us in the goggles at the top of the show.

• 1:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, we'll be fully, if you're watching, we're adorned in the Goggins Goggle Glasses.

• 1:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, we are.

• 1:40Dax Shepard?

  Okay, now, this is a big merch update.

• 1:42Speaker 01

  Yes, huge update.

• 1:44Dax Shepard?

  So we were unable to do our own merch. We have to do our merch through Amazon Wondry. We have asked them if we can just do it while we're getting that sorted and we have a one month window where we've got a bunch of really cool, well thought out merch. You can go to www-armchairexpertpod.com. Bunch of cool designs, a lot of things that were on the limited edition sweatshirts are now making their way to t-shirts.

• 2:11Speaker 01

  With some additional designs and some sweats and it's a really cool little collection.

• 2:16Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and this is not calculated into a pressure cooker, but it will be about a month long that we're allowed to do this.

• 2:22Speaker 01

  I mean, there's a chance we might be able to continue. We don't know yet.

• 2:25Dax Shepard?

  We don't know.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Just letting you guys know it's up.

• 2:28Dax Shepard?

  We know we have the month, so order now. There'll be a delay because we have to make it all and ship it. So if you need it overnight, that's probably not gonna happen. It's a pre-sale, but go there and order all the stuff you want and then it'll get to you at some time. Go to WWJ R. Get your merch. Please enjoy Walton Goggins Coca-Cola glasses. We get support from Quince.

• 2:51Speaker 01

  I have to say, I am so ready for fall. I want sweaters. I've been craving a true crisp morning where I actually need a jacket. I can't wait.

• 3:00Dax Shepard?

  I'm fully there. The second it dips below 70, I'm like, this is my season. Give me the layers, give me the boots, give me a reason to wear something other than a T-shirt. And honestly, that's why I love Quince because fall is when your wardrobe actually has to show up and everything at Quince is 50 to 80% less than similar brands. We're talking 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters, starting at $60.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  $60, $60 for cashmere that you'd expect from a luxury brand without the luxury price tag. It's amazing. Gets me every time. It really shouldn't be real, but it is because they go straight to the factories, they skip the middlemen and they just hand you the savings. The stuff isn't trendy. It's the kind of pieces you grab over and over because they work every time.

• 3:41Dax Shepard?

  The 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters for me are it. When I look at Steve McQueen, this man owned a couple of sweaters he wore all the time and he looks iconic.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  It's a uniform.

• 3:51Dax Shepard?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:52Speaker 01

  And Quince isn't just about the clothes. They have hotel quality bedding, cookware, bath essentials, thoughtfully designed furniture. You can really go there and outfit your entire apartment or house. So if you're in need of any kind of fall refresh at home too, same quality, same attention to detail for every corner of your life.

• 4:09Dax Shepard?

  Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Armchair Expert. It's the best way to support the show. We get support from AG1. Fall is that time when your body and mind are getting ready for the winter. You're settling in, bracing for the cold. Your body's already running a deficit from the shorter days and broken sleep patterns. You don't want a nutrient deficit stacked on top of that too.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  That's where your AG1 routine earns its spot. It's not fixing your sleep or your alarm time. It's giving your body what it needs so the dark mornings don't tank you before you even start. One scoop, cold water every morning before anything else.

• 4:58Dax Shepard?

  AG1 Next Gen has 75 plus ingredients, vitamins, minerals, pre and probiotics, superfoods, backed by four separate gold standard clinical trials. Key nutrient levels improved with three months of consistent use.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  That's the part people miss. It's not a one day fix. It's what happens when you stay consistent.

• 5:16Dax Shepard?

  It's an easy, everyday thing. I've added it to my morning routine and I'm going to tell you, I actually love the taste of it. It's like Pavlovian. I drink it and I know, mm, I'm going to get that little vitamin buzz.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  Well, that's also the thing. When you do it first thing in the morning, you already feel kind of self-esteem because you're like, I already did something good for myself.

• 5:33Dax Shepard?

  Yes. Go to drinkag1.com/dax and for a limited time, get a free immunity bundle, including a bottle of omega three fish oil and a bottle of vitamin D3 K2 with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro. That's drinkag1.com/dax. And after checkout, be sure to let them know that Armchair Experts sent you.

• 6:15Dax Shepard?

  Oh, hey, whoa, wait a minute. Whoa, is there a guest?

• 6:18Speaker 02

  Go ahead.

• 6:19Dax Shepard?

  I think we have the star of the show. I'm just the guest star.

• 6:23Dax Shepard?

  Monty, you want to slide yours on? Sure. I put them there for you. Yes, I would. I figured we could start in them. Oh, my. He brought you specifically blue. Honey, sit on the couch for half a second. You're not even mic. Can you push this product? This bitch can move product. Pickleball, skydiving, wear it on the boat, scuba diving. You ever cut onions in these bad boys?

• 6:43Speaker 02

  Oh, I've cut onions in them.

• 6:44Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I can't wait to cut onions in me.

• 6:47Speaker 01

  Very comfortable.

• 6:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're comfortable.

• 6:49Dax Shepard?

  This feels like we're having an interview on a chairlift on the way up the mountain. It does. Which kind of happens, you know, you're sitting on. On that chair lift for minutes and minutes and you have been talking about some stuff.

• 6:58Speaker 03

  I feel like this is such a good product for you. You know how sometimes people have brands that you're like, I don't get the A to B. This is an A.

• 7:06Dax Shepard?

  Why does Tom Cruise have lawn care equipment?

• 7:08Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. But does he have lawn? But does he?

• 7:13Speaker 03

  Does he? Well, by the way.

• 7:16Dax Shepard?

  Top Gun mower.

• 7:17Speaker 03

  Say the name out loud.

• 7:18Speaker 02

  Walton Goggins goggle glasses.

• 7:20Dax Shepard?

  I mean, that's as close as you can get to Uncle Baby Billy's bobby bunkers.

• 7:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's some similarities there.

• 7:26Dax Shepard?

  It's a bit of a nod, isn't it?

• 7:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a nod, just a little thing. It worked out for Baby Billy, maybe it'll work out for me.

• 7:33Speaker 02

  I'm a good athlete. I'm not a great athlete at all, but really the thing that I got out of playing sports more than anything else was I just love the equipment, man. I just love putting on the football pads. I love the gloves. I mean, I love pep rallies. Let me ask, wearing them right now, do you think that you would go for a pickleball shot that you might otherwise not go for since you have a strap on your head?

• 7:54Speaker 03

  Hunter P. I feel very cool in these.

• 7:56Dax Shepard?

  Honey, if you walk straight out of here and get in my Z-Wagon and drive the stick shift like you're Mario fucking Andretti, because of those, I won't be shocked at all.

• 8:05Speaker 03

  I've never driven a stick.

• 8:06Dax Shepard?

  That's right.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  We live 15 minutes from a ski resort where we are now in the Hudson Valley. This isn't like Aspen, Colorado, but it's got a vibe. It's a super cool place. And I drop my kid off at school and like any good dad, I'll go skiing.

• 8:20Dax Shepard?

  Like most American dads.

• 8:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, like 10 runs and then I'll have a beer.

• 8:24Speaker 03

  Oh, what a ride.

• 8:26Speaker 02

  Sit outside and there's a fire pit kind of out there and then go home and take a nap and sober up everyone, I promise, and go pick up my kid. But one particular day, I was sitting out and it's cold and I got these goggles on, whatever the Oakley cool glasses are, just sitting there having a beer. I said, I never want to take these glasses off.

• 8:45Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 8:46Speaker 02

  Where are we all when it comes to reading glasses? Do you need them? Do you not need them? And go.

• 8:51Speaker 03

  Year and a half ago, my eyes died. I don't know what happened, but it was overnight and now I'm at a one, I guess, is my prescription. I don't think they're very strong, but when my kids put them on, they make quite a bit of fun.

• 9:02Dax Shepard?

  Well, they get a headache instantly.

• 9:04Speaker 03

  I do have to wear them a lot.

• 9:06Speaker 02

  With my wife, who's older than I am, just a couple of years, baby, I'm so sorry.

• 9:11Speaker 03

  Shout out and apology.

• 9:12Speaker 02

  Two years and two days, November 8th, she's a Scorpio. I won't say the year, baby. You couldn't even see me wink, can you? Cause you don't really know what's going on in my thoughts. But she said, it's coming for you. And I said, I don't think so. And then literally she said it'll happen overnight and it did. And then the next night, you know.

• 9:29Dax Shepard?

  Blind.

• 9:30Speaker 02

  Laid down to read and blind.

• 9:31Dax Shepard?

  Your representatives, your publicists, I bet in their best case scenario, they hoped we would talk about these glasses for 30 seconds.

• 9:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm guessing that was kind of about it.

• 9:40Dax Shepard?

  Optimistic state, they're like, I pray they bring them up and I hope they do 30 seconds on them. And we've done legit a good 15.

• 9:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm starting to panic. It's time to talk about your life.

• 9:50Speaker 02

  Don't panic, I'll get out of your hair, you guys have fun. It's so good to see you.

• 9:53Dax Shepard?

  I want to tell you sincerely, 850 guests, she's asked to come meet, I think four people. Where she said, what time are you recording? I'm going to make sure I'm not doing anything. I must meet this person and you're one of four.

• 10:06Speaker 03

  Well, we've worked together.

• 10:09Dax Shepard?

  Oopsie.

• 10:09Speaker 02

  Ready to go, Dax. Fucking, not only did we work together, so sorry.

• 10:14Speaker 03

  But Dax's point stands, people are in and out of this yard all the time. People that I know, people that I don't know, people that I respect, people that I'm fans of. And I've come in to say hi to maybe four or five people. And you were definitely one of them because how do you even say it? You're a number one.

• 10:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have the evidence. I have on this show numerous times said, you are my number one. So hard to say.

• 10:38Speaker 02

  I gotta put these all before I get emotional.

• 10:41Dax Shepard?

  They're great to mask public crime to, we left that out. There isn't anyone I've ever seen that is apex drama and apex comedy the way you are. It seems impossible to be honest. To go from righteous to fallout in one year, it's staggering.

• 10:57Speaker 03

  And the fact that you were in that disgusting mask on fallout and every woman in America was still like, I want that sexy radiation cowboy in my bedroom once a week. You got the rhythm, we love you. I'm glad I got to see you.

• 11:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, you don't really have the body of a beer drinker. When you said that, I was like, I don't buy it.

• 11:18Dax Shepard?

  He's one of these guys though. He's one of these charmed, those are yours.

• 11:23Speaker 02

  They're yours.

• 11:23Dax Shepard?

  And yours look great as a hairband.

• 11:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love it as a also a hairband. Very exciting.

• 11:28Speaker 02

  Names, and then we'll just kind of move on to something else. The white ones are cumulonimbus.

• 11:33Dax Shepard?

  Which is a cloud formation?

• 11:34Speaker 02

  Yes, they are. I think they're the coolest. It's like, fuck, he's rocking some white goggle glasses with a red, white and blue band.

• 11:41Speaker 01

  It's confidence.

• 11:43Speaker 02

  It's very cool. And then we have a noir pair, a black pair called Mama Skillet, named after my mama skillet.

• 11:48Speaker 01

  Okay, we're gonna pin in Mama Skillet.

• 11:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, these are tortuga. You gotta have a tortoise shell, man.

• 11:53Dax Shepard?

  So what is the word tortuga? Where does it come from?

• 11:56Speaker 02

  It means, uh, black and brown pattern.

• 12:00Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay. It's not like a-

• 12:01Speaker 02

  No, it's a turtle.

• 12:02Dax Shepard?

  It's a type of turtle.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  I think it's in Spanish.

• 12:05Speaker 02

  It's Spanish.

• 12:05Dax Shepard?

  Oh, in Spanish?

• 12:06Speaker 02

  Yes. And then we have limoncello.

• 12:08Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 12:09Speaker 02

  Which is yellow. And then we have the color that you're wearing, which is, guess what? Blue.

• 12:16Dax Shepard?

  Wow. Decided to go real conventional for just one. Which is comical because if any color deserved adjective before it, it would be blue. There's so many kinds, but you're like, no, there's only one blue and this is it.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  You're thinking differently.

• 12:32Speaker 02

  Oh, he just picked up some questions. Okay, here we go.

• 12:35Dax Shepard?

  We're gonna get serious now, sir.

• 12:36Speaker 02

  Okay, let's get so serious.

• 12:37Dax Shepard?

  So yeah, you get it. I love you so much. I have been wanting this to happen for very, very long. And I was working with Rob Corddry for a period, who I adore. And then I found out you guys are close and you would vacation together in Europe, which sounds exactly what I'd imagine you do.

• 12:53Speaker 02

  Hey, always.

• 12:56Dax Shepard?

  So elegant. And maybe I want to jump to one thing to then come back to where you're from, because I was watching an interview with you and you were discussing having been offered justified to be in the pilot. You were gonna die in justified and that was gonna be it. You read it and you turned it down twice for a very specific reason. And I want you to tell me why, because I really liked it.

• 13:17Speaker 02

  I'm a huge Elmore Leonard fan for one thing, but I felt that it was so one dimensional and because I can afford not to do this anymore.

• 13:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, for much of your early career, all of us, we gotta play what they offer.

• 13:29Speaker 02

  Absolutely. I mean, if- If you're Italian and you're from New York, chances are you're gonna.

• 13:33Dax Shepard?

  You're gonna shoot somebody.

• 13:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. You're gonna be eating some fucking pasta.

• 13:37Dax Shepard?

  You're gonna eat some pasta, you're gonna dig a hole in the desert.

• 13:39Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 13:40Dax Shepard?

  And you're gonna smile while you're doing it.

• 13:41Speaker 02

  But we all look for boxes to kind of fit in when we're starting out. And it just so happened to be at that point in my life that I'd gotten out of a number of those boxes. And this was one box that I just felt like I can't perpetuate this stereotype and sell out my culture anymore. From an outsider's perspective, like a lot of different cultures in America, they're reducible to one impersonation. And it's like, okay, well, if I can speak like this, you know, and I come down here and like I'm from the South. What does that even fucking mean? I mean, the South represents a third of this country. Each region and each state and each part of every state is very unique. Like the state of New York, the state of New York isn't just New Yorkers. I live in the state of New York now.

• 14:17Dax Shepard?

  Two dramatically different cultures, actually. You live in both.

• 14:20Speaker 02

  Dramatically, yeah.

• 14:20Dax Shepard?

  Manhattan and Hudson Valley.

• 14:22Speaker 02

  That's right, but it just felt like I was at a place in my life where I just was unwilling to do that.

• 14:27Dax Shepard?

  To participate in the perpetuation of the.

• 14:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I think everybody, you know, at some point, whenever you can kind of step out, you don't need the money. Morally, you just don't think that it's right and you don't want to feel shame whenever you're visiting those places. That you're just another part of the problem. This is where the conversation ends and I wanted it to be where the conversation began. And so on the third conversation we had after I had turned it down twice. And I say that I'm not proud of it. There's no ego involved in that whatsoever because I'm such a huge fan of Tim Olyphant's and Michael Denner, who was directing it and wrote a good bit of it by Graham Yost, who wrote the pilot. On the third time, I said, okay, I'll do it. Two things, I'm the smartest person in the room, always. After I say this very long speech in the pilot.

• 15:10Dax Shepard?

  It was kind of crazy racist rant.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  That's right, that you say this one line, which is, I know you don't believe half the things that you're saying. You just need an audience. I just needed a version of that line for him to see through that, which is true.

• 15:21Dax Shepard?

  It's crazy, having watched it, not knowing that story and how important that weird detail was. Cause it also built this rapport with you two, which makes it so much more compelling. You have a past and that little line that you were wanting to not perpetuate ends up also being this other layer.

• 15:40Speaker 02

  Also allows the audience to kind of come into the experience. No one has tolerance for intolerance. Really, I don't. It just gave the audience the opportunity to experience this person and really to go forward. I ask for those things, not with a six year contract. This was just the pilot and die. We'll do this thing and just give me that and then I can sleep better at night.

• 16:01Dax Shepard?

  And you know, you're so fucking incredible after they tested it. Every single person like, well, no, no, he can't die.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, it just adds a third dimension to a person.

• 16:11Dax Shepard?

  We had a guest that so beautifully articulated this. You know, the author Barbara Kingsolver, by chance? She wrote the Pulitzer Prize winning book last year, Demon Copperhead.

• 16:21Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Okay.

• 16:21Dax Shepard?

  The most beautiful book. I read it. My whole family's from Kentucky. She said in that book, she was trying to explain how it feels to be in the South, especially in Appalachia. She described it as we're in the bathroom stall in high school. We hear the popular kids making fun of us. We get these TV shows. We get these songs. We can hear you. It's so fucking offensive and hurtful.

• 16:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:45Dax Shepard?

  And you don't even care. I just had a whole renewed compassion for one of the great stereotypes that kind of persists.

• 16:53Speaker 02

  In some ways, I hope I don't get in trouble for saying this, but it's permissible. An urban culture, certainly on both coasts.

• 16:59Dax Shepard?

  It's low hanging fruit. It's always there.

• 17:01Speaker 02

  You can always go to it and you can always get a laugh from your constituents. And they're a part of it. They're also in the audience.

• 17:06Dax Shepard?

  It's hurtful. So you were born in Birmingham, Alabama, but you grew up in Georgia where Monica grew up as well.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  I'm from Georgia.

• 17:13Dax Shepard?

  Whoa.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  I know you're talking about Kentucky, but I'm from Georgia.

• 17:17Dax Shepard?

  A little peach.

• 17:18Speaker 01

  That's right. A little peach.

• 17:19Speaker 02

  ATL?

• 17:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, Duluth, where in Georgia.

• 17:22Speaker 02

  We lived in a fucking trailer in Birmingham, Alabama, first year of my life. My mom's sisters lived, I think it was like, I don't know, five or six people. My parents got divorced pretty early.

• 17:35Dax Shepard?

  What age?

• 17:36Speaker 02

  Three, maybe two and a half, but my earliest memories are with my mom in Decatur, Georgia, which is right downtown.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  It's very cool now.

• 17:44Speaker 02

  There's so many great places in Atlanta now, like so many cities in America had this whole new generation has kind of come in. And give me some third wave coffee and fucking some great sourdough bread.

• 17:54Dax Shepard?

  What's coming next? Ooh, Mediterranean food, fantastic. But Lithia, do you know Lithia?

• 17:59Speaker 02

  Lithia Springs. We moved out, which is west side. My mom and I lived in Decatur three years. One of my earliest memories, I couldn't have been more than four. I have a lot of memories from that house that we lived in, this duplex. But one is one of the scariest memories of my childhood, of my life, really. My mom's bedroom was in the front, my bedroom was in the back. She's a young woman, she's a beautiful woman. She had a super cool boyfriend and I slept in my bed alone.

• 18:23Dax Shepard?

  You were an only child at that point?

• 18:24Speaker 02

  Only child. And I went to sleep, my little twin bed was right up against the wall. My upper torso was next to the wall. From my knees down was in front of a window. Just as I was about to fall asleep, there was a light in the backyard. And I had whatever the fucking house came with, these shades that were kind of pulled down. An opaque shade, so you could see through it. And just as I was falling asleep, I saw someone crawl in front of my window. Cause it was a roof right outside of, it was two stories. I don't know if it was a man or a woman, I have no idea.

• 18:56Dax Shepard?

  I think we can assume it's a man. If I'm betting on this.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  Or a woman escaping.

• 19:02Speaker 02

  It was a man. He was on his knees and he was just sitting there like perfectly outlined. And my window, his whole body, and I couldn't scream. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he had his hands on the window and he was trying to see if it would open. And then eventually he just went past the window. And as soon as he was out of sight, I got my voice back and I started screaming.

• 19:21Dax Shepard?

  Did mom's boyfriend run to the scene?

• 19:23Speaker 02

  I don't know if he was there that night. That's kind of the end of that memory, really. I remember my mom coming in or something, but it was terrifying, yeah. And then we moved out to Lithia Springs when I was five years old. We found an 1850s farmhouse and it was two bedrooms. You had to walk through my room to get to the bathroom. And it was fucking cold in the winter. It was like, well, I'm gonna go to sleep with this glass of water on the edge of my bed. And I know I'm gonna wake up and it's gonna be frozen.

• 19:48Speaker 01

  Yay.

• 19:49Speaker 02

  Look, there's no more water in my glass, mama.

• 19:51Dax Shepard?

  Get me out of here. What the fuck's wrong with us? Were there step dads in the mix?

• 19:56Speaker 02

  I did not have a step dad. My mom never got remarried, but she had some boyfriends and I loved all of them.

• 20:04Dax Shepard?

  You did?

• 20:05Speaker 02

  Some of them were a little hard and a couple of them were younger than they probably should have been.

• 20:09Dax Shepard?

  Good for her.

• 20:09Speaker 02

  My mom's so fucking hot.

• 20:11Speaker 01

  Oh my god, we need a picture of your mom.

• 20:14Speaker 02

  My mom's so fucking cool.

• 20:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, who do you get your swagger from? Because I have been lucky enough to see photos of your dad and Monica, I can't wait to describe his father to you, but you showed some pictures on Seth Meyers of him. He is a one of a fucking kind.

• 20:27Speaker 02

  He texted me a photo yesterday. Dad, if you ever see this, I can't believe he made this fucking coffee mug.

• 20:35Speaker 02

  It was a picture of me in these glasses, a part of the campaign, and he made himself a coffee mug. He's a narcissist, my dad.

• 20:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:42Speaker 02

  Clinical.

• 20:43Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 20:43Speaker 02

  He knows it, don't you dad?

• 20:46Speaker 01

  He's listening because you're talking about it.

• 20:47Speaker 02

  This thing, I mean, he said, congratulations. He loves me and I love him. It has this logo fucking all over the bottom of it. And then at the top, that's facing out where people would be seeing it.

• 20:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 20:59Speaker 02

  Is a picture of me in these glasses and underneath it in big letters, there is no him without me.

• 21:05Speaker 01

  Oh, no, no.

• 21:06Dax Shepard?

  That's what it says on the mug.

• 21:07Speaker 02

  On the fucking mug, man.

• 21:09Dax Shepard?

  Perfect. I could almost guess that caption. My father, and I wonder if you have this, as I got famous, he loved telling people. I wanted to take in how proud he was of me and he was deeply proud of me. But I couldn't trust that it wasn't maybe more about him getting attention.

• 21:27Speaker 02

  Of course, man.

• 21:27Speaker 01

  You're an extension of him.

• 21:29Dax Shepard?

  Which makes more sense now that I have kids. You're right. There is a very tiny line between you. But can you relate to that?

• 21:35Speaker 02

  I had a lifetime of that. We're not the only people that had this kind of experience. My father was married six times, but one was a null.

• 21:43Dax Shepard?

  Okay, well, we'll still count it.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  I'm gonna count that, yeah.

• 21:46Speaker 02

  A shotgun, kind of annulment. The running joke kind of in my household was inevitably, everybody has a bumper sticker that says honk if you've ever been married to Sandy Goggins.

• 21:56Speaker 02

  Fucking who hasn't he married? But my mom never remarried. She had some wonderful men come through and then we had a cast of characters in my life. It was kind of this waystation for people. My mom was the most sane of her three sisters who were and are insane clinically, but it was really colorful and I was raised kind of by the real Steel Magnolias.

• 22:17Dax Shepard?

  You get to meet characters, it sounds like.

• 22:19Speaker 02

  Not only I get to meet them, they fucking lived with us.

• 22:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, they raised you.

• 22:23Dax Shepard?

  Upon reflection though, are you grateful for it?

• 22:25Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm so grateful for it. Whenever you would meet someone, even someone who was relatively authentic, even someone who was just a farmer across the street, Kermit and his wife, everyone in my life was eccentric. I mean, except for the Hearst family. My neighbors, Holly and David were my best friends and Ken and Carol.

• 22:46Dax Shepard?

  Oh, perfect.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  My mom and dad, they actually fed me regularly. They had a bed that I could always sleep in and they would actually take me to practice, but they would also pick me up.

• 22:56Dax Shepard?

  They were dependable.

• 22:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, they were about as good as Americans can get. They were just wonderful people, but goddamn, I'm glad that I wasn't raised totally by them. I just absolutely love lunatics. Yes. I love crazy people, but just enough crazy. I don't see enough people seeking out those conversations or taking the time with people like that. Am I wrong about that?

• 23:18Speaker 01

  You think people dismiss?

• 23:21Speaker 02

  I think that eccentricity, if the conversation can't be had in about three minutes, if you're only checking one of the 10 boxes required for me to have a conversation, I'm not fucking having it, right? I mean, because people are busy and there's a phone. Do you think that's true or no?

• 23:35Speaker 01

  Gosh, I think it's complicated because I also think because of social media, people also lean deeply into their eccentricity, almost in an inauthentic way.

• 23:46Dax Shepard?

  In a performative way.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  It's performative. So authenticity has gotten very complicated and public and confusing.

• 23:53Speaker 02

  And you are interfacing with people that have. Their real or faux eccentricities and you are engaging with them in that platform. I didn't even think about that.

• 24:01Dax Shepard?

  Well, also you can get that itch scratch, which is you can go watch someone that's batshit nuts on Instagram. Whereas when we were kids, Kristen will hear me say this all the time. It's like right in airport and I just lock on to somebody. And I'll say out loud, gotta find out what this guy's up to and I'll go chat. People catch my eye all the time and I'm like dying to find out what's cracking. What's going on outside of this airport? What kind of kid were you in school?

• 24:24Speaker 02

  I was alone a lot as a kid, single mom, babysitter's houses. I felt like I spent most of my life waiting to be picked up. At times I felt like an inconvenience, even though that wasn't their intention. I remember seeing the bridges of Madison County and Burbank whenever that movie came out in the early nineties. And then calling my mom from a payphone in the lobby, walking out apologizing for being bored. But not, you know, just like, I'm so sorry. I held you back from doing some of these things. And she still had a fucking great life.

• 24:55Dax Shepard?

  Well, it sounds like it. This is some younger suitors.

• 24:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, but she was like, no, son, you are the gift. You are it. But at the time I didn't feel that. In school, I think I was popular, kind. I think I could charm people. I always felt different. I always knew that I'm not going to be here forever. I had a lot of friends, my senior superlative, even though I didn't win it, but I was the first runner up for most friendliest. I thought it would be best dressed. They took that out that year because poor kids, they don't have the same opportunity. I'm poor motherfucker.

• 25:24Dax Shepard?

  But I figured it out.

• 25:25Speaker 02

  But I figured it out. I got a job. I work at Rich's.

• 25:27Dax Shepard?

  Two dollar scarf with this three dollar shirt.

• 25:29Speaker 02

  You see this shit? I bought this shit, but uh, I was a great student.

• 25:34Dax Shepard?

  Oh, no kidding.

• 25:35Speaker 02

  I had no structure in my life. I don't think I slept in the same bed for more than seven days straight until I was like 15. So I had to generate my own structure. It helped me. It served me my entire life because okay, well, I gotta work harder than everybody in this room.

• 25:49Dax Shepard?

  It makes you a self-starter because no one's going to start it for you.

• 25:51Speaker 02

  That's right. I remember writing a poem that was the class assignment and so I picked it about divorce. You know, I came to turn it in and she gave it back to me and it was like an F.

• 26:00Dax Shepard?

  Whoa.

• 26:00Speaker 02

  I said, I'm so sorry. I think this is pretty good. And she said, it's great, but you didn't write it. And I said, what?

• 26:07Dax Shepard?

  Oh, so it's the ultimate compliment?

• 26:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. It's like, yes, I did. I'm like that guy. It's from my heart.

• 26:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. I just showed you my heart and you just shit on it.

• 26:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:15Dax Shepard?

  Called me a fraud.

• 26:16Speaker 02

  And then my mom kind of came to school, said, no, no, no, it was him. It all worked out.

• 26:20Dax Shepard?

  I've never wanted to read a poem in my entire life until right now. I'm dying to read the seventh grade poem.

• 26:27Speaker 02

  No, I remember a couple of raps I wrote behind school. We'll get to that later.

• 26:31Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so you went to Southern Georgia University for a year and a half?

• 26:35Speaker 01

  Georgia Southern?

• 26:36Speaker 02

  Georgia Southern. Did you go to?

• 26:37Speaker 01

  I went to Georgia.

• 26:38Speaker 02

  You went to UGA?

• 26:39Speaker 01

  I did. Good old Athens.

• 26:40Dax Shepard?

  She too was a great student.

• 26:41Speaker 02

  You from Georgia, man?

• 26:42Speaker 01

  I know I am. I sure am. We got in a big fight about it because I went to the Texas game with Dax.

• 26:48Dax Shepard?

  In Austin.

• 26:49Speaker 02

  Why are you a big Texas?

• 26:50Speaker 01

  No, he's not.

• 26:51Dax Shepard?

  I'm a big Austin fan.

• 26:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm a big Austin fan. That's a great city, man.

• 26:54Speaker 01

  Well, they were playing Georgia and I refused.

• 26:57Dax Shepard?

  And we were the guests.

• 26:58Speaker 01

  We were guests of some Texas.

• 27:00Dax Shepard?

  McConaughey.

• 27:01Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 27:01Dax Shepard?

  This fucking religion. We gotta hook them.

• 27:03Speaker 01

  No, we don't.

• 27:04Speaker 02

  Do you wear like a Georgia hat?

• 27:06Speaker 01

  I wore a bulldog shirt and a red sweater.

• 27:10Speaker 02

  Were you on the field?

• 27:11Speaker 01

  No, we were in the box, but surrounded by a bunch of orange. And I was like, absolutely not.

• 27:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 27:18Dax Shepard?

  Because she was so mad that I wanted the Longhorn swing. It put our friendship to the test.

• 27:22Speaker 01

  It really did.

• 27:23Dax Shepard?

  We barely navigated that one.

• 27:25Speaker 02

  We don't have to talk about it now, but I want to know the history of this friendship.

• 27:28Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. It's odd pairing.

• 27:30Dax Shepard?

  We're best friends. We fight nonstop. We think about the world so differently so often.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  It works.

• 27:36Dax Shepard?

  Big time.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  Circling back a little bit, I do think we are very volatile and I think that's somewhat of a result of his upbringing and potentially mine. And we were talking about chaos and relationships. Do you seek that out? I think we subconsciously seek it out.

• 27:54Speaker 02

  You mean conflict with each other or do you think in your own lives?

• 27:56Speaker 01

  Like, if I'm being honest, I think that's part of the draw. There's something always that could blow up.

• 28:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's right. And part of the attraction to this.

• 28:05Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 28:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I crave novelty. I crave a challenge. I crave. Crave being engaged and because she's so smart and has such a strong point of view and it's so often different from mine, it's very ripe for very engaged, very heartfelt debate. And we love each other. So we would like to have the same opinion. So the stakes are high.

• 28:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 28:29Dax Shepard?

  Now that makes for a great show. It's been going on for seven years.

• 28:32Speaker 02

  Been going on a long time.

• 28:33Dax Shepard?

  We have to really navigate it quite often, but I think that's the best kind of relationship. I agree with you. I could never be with a fan. I have friends. I know people who are very successful and then they get a very beautiful person who's just along for the ride and they're a fan. I would be so bored out of my mind. My wife is hard as a motherfucker.

• 28:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, super smart, super talented.

• 28:56Dax Shepard?

  Very driven, very ambitious, gonna get her way. I need that.

• 28:59Speaker 02

  I have that in my life. My wife is more often than not the smartest person in any room that I walk in for sure. She's a fucking intellectual baller. She understands the world in a very nuanced, complex way and is able to walk with kings.

• 29:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And you gotta have your shit straight before you enter into a fray with her. Like she makes you, I'm presuming, the very best version of yourself.

• 29:22Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, I don't know, or the worst version too. And the thing that I say often is I'm zen 99% of the time. And she says, well, it's the 1% where you should be fucking zen, man. You know, it's the 1% when you're challenged to that place and that's your lesson. I said, or maybe it's fucking not my lesson. But that's kind of that thing. I mean, I think I'm cool, I'm cool, I'm cool to, hey, man, fuck you. I'm not cool. That level of volatility is present in my work and maybe you feel that way in your work. And that is the same with my wife and all of my friends. I look for that in other people.

• 29:59Dax Shepard?

  I need 10% crazy in the mix.

• 30:02Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 30:03Dax Shepard?

  And Monica's 26% crazy and I'm 35% crazy, so.

• 30:09Speaker 01

  Well, I would go up a little bit on that.

• 30:11Speaker 02

  Is Kristin crazy?

• 30:12Dax Shepard?

  That's a great question.

• 30:13Speaker 01

  Less and less.

• 30:14Dax Shepard?

  Less and less and less.

• 30:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:15Dax Shepard?

  Both of us, by the way, have gotten way milder. It can exist so much easier. Your 19 years?

• 30:21Speaker 02

  Twenty. Been married for that long, but we met on a blind date 20 years ago, January 11th.

• 30:28Dax Shepard?

  The volume comes down on a lot of stuff.

• 30:29Speaker 02

  It has, and we've gone through a lot and like every relationship, ups and downs and peaks and valleys. But there's this thing that has eluded us for so long and we see it coming. It's like, oh, I fucking know exactly how this is going to go down. And I don't want to, okay, let's step off this train right now. There's an off ramp right here, man. You could just turn around. Oh, she's not letting you leave. Oh, you're not letting her. Oh, oh, hey, you know what?

• 30:55Dax Shepard?

  Now we're doing.

• 30:56Speaker 02

  Fucking, I'm out, man.

• 30:59Dax Shepard?

  The little switch flips.

• 31:00Speaker 02

  Of here.

• 31:01Dax Shepard?

  And a little burst of euphoria comes. We go, oh, I'm gonna burn the house down.

• 31:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's right.

• 31:07Dax Shepard?

  And it's a little bit intoxicating.

• 31:09Speaker 02

  It is intoxicating, but you know who in my family doesn't have any of that is our child. He is so calm and so wise and so measured and extremely passionate. A deep, deep, deep thinker.

• 31:24Dax Shepard?

  What could be more fun?

• 31:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:26Dax Shepard?

  Okay, here's the limb I wanted to go out on.

• 31:27Speaker 02

  Okay, let's go out on that.

• 31:28Dax Shepard?

  I was just curious, given the similar background. Is it hard for you when someone's in a bad mood? Like my things with my wife are generally, and I have this with Monica too, I have this with everyone in my life. If someone's in a really bad mood, I have this unreasonable desire to fix that for them and to regulate them. And if I can't do it, I'm very uncomfortable.

• 31:52Speaker 02

  Right, because you spent a lifetime doing that, regulating kind of other people's.

• 31:56Dax Shepard?

  Well, that was my guess. I'm wondering, single mom, it's like normally dad would be in charge of that. If mom's got an emotional issue.

• 32:02Speaker 02

  She never fit that box, right? She never fit that stereotype. Smoked a lot of weed, had a really good time, very passionate woman, loved to have sex.

• 32:11Dax Shepard?

  Mine too. My mom's an admitted love addict.

• 32:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. And started studying Paramahansa Yogananda and Joel Goldsmith and the Yurancha and the I Am and went on this spiritual journey. Started when I was about 10 or 11 years old and had me reading all of those texts, so much so that I just kind of missed out. On the classics because I felt like it was a waste of time. If you weren't doing something that was expanding kind of your consciousness, then why would you do it? I didn't realize until I was in a car with some friends that I had made in L.A. when I first moved out here, coming back from San Diego and hearing these people talk about Hemingway and Somerset Ma and Faulkner. And they had the opportunity to be in school. They had a college education.

• 32:54Speaker 02

  And hearing them cross-reference these authors and how it was applicable to cinema or a song that they were listening to. And I just was in the backseat, wasn't saying anything. I was just listening to all of this and I just thought, I want that kind of in my life. To circle back to what you said, I had to please a lot of people. I had to please my father. I wasn't around him that much, but when I was, I desperately had to do that. That's not our problem. Early in my life, my problem was profound insecurity based on poverty and not having those things. To the point where in high school or middle school, girlfriends' parents were coming to pick me up and I would give them an address that wasn't my address. And right before they were supposed to get me, I say, okay, Mom, I gotta go. My mom had no structure, no boundaries, no boundaries whatsoever.

• 33:39Speaker 02

  My mom was like, I trust you. And so I would just slip out of the house and I would go to Ken and Carol's house with the nicer home and just hide in the ditch or out by their bushes. And I would see the headlights kind of pulling and I would just run out in the drywall. It's like, okay. And then the lights would come on and says, is that your? And I was like, ah, they're fine. Bye, Mom. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 34:00Dax Shepard?

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. This episode is supported by Helix.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  Dax, is there anything better than crawling into a perfect bed on a cold fall night? Candlelit, hoodie on, maybe even some rain outside. The dream.

• 34:20Dax Shepard?

  That's the dream. You just described one of my ideal fall nights.

• 34:24Speaker 01

  I know. And thanks to Helix, my bed actually lives up to the vibe. All I had to do was take the Helix Sleep Quiz and within two minutes, they matched me to a mattress built for exactly how I sleep. I have a midnight mattress. It also has cooling technology, which I really.

• 34:40Dax Shepard?

  Increasingly so.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  I need it. I have to have it. And I heard that you're supposed to sleep at a cold temp. Optimal sleep. It's very, very helpful.

• 34:51Dax Shepard?

  She is not wrong. I have one too, and it's been such a game changer for sleep. And I love that they make it so easy. Free shipping right to your door. And what they're happy with Helix guarantee, you'll get a full 365 nights to try it. A whole year to live in that cozy. They've got over 20 mattress models. So no matter how you sleep, they've got one for you.

• 35:11Speaker 01

  And it's not just us saying it. Helix has been named the most awarded mattress brand by Forbes, Wired and more. You gotta try it for yourself.

• 35:18Dax Shepard?

  Go to helixsleep.com/armchair for 20% off site wide. That's helixsleep.com/armchair for 20% off site wide. Helixsleep.com/armchair. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. We've talked before about Rob building our website on Squarespace and I bring it up again because it's a perfect example of what they do well. Rob had all the pieces, the content, the vision, the ideas, but he needed something to actually take all that and make it public facing. And Squarespace was that bridge. Maybe you're in the same spot. You've been developing something, a business, a skillset, a body of work, and it's been private.

• 35:57Dax Shepard?

  It's been yours, but at some point you're ready to put it out there and that transition from private to public can feel like a huge leap. Squarespace makes it feel like a step. Beautiful templates, built in SEO, email campaigns, scheduling, analytics, everything you need to go from. I've been working on this to here it is. Come find me. All in one place, no code, no stitching together a bunch of different tools. So if you've been sitting on something and waiting for the right moment, this might be it. Head to squarespace.com/dax for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code DAX to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. We get support from our sponsor Lilly.

• 36:40Dax Shepard?

  For adults with obesity or with excess weight and weight-related medical problems, it's time to find out about Foundo or for Gleepran. Foundo is a once-daily prescription GLP-1 medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off.

• 37:03Speaker 04

  Foundo should not be used with other GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Foundo is safe and effective for use in children. Don't take Foundo if you're allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had majorary thyroid cancer or multiple endocrine euplasia syndrome type 2. Stop and call your doctor right away if you have an allergic reaction, a lump or swelling in your neck, or severe stomach pain. Serious side effects may include inflamed pancreas and gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes, if you're nursing, pregnant, plant to be, or taking birth control pills, and before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. Taking Foundo with an insulin or sulfonylurea may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include diarrhea, nausea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and may cause kidney problems. Once-daily Foundo is available by prescription only in 0.8 milligram, 2.5 milligram, 5.5

• 37:48Speaker 04

  milligram, 9 milligram, 14.5 milligram, and 17.2 milligram tablets. Learn more at foundo.lilly.com or call 1-800-LILY-RX. Now is perfect to talk to your doctor about Foundo.

• 38:00Dax Shepard?

  This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've thought about trying therapy with our long-term partner BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just $23 per session. October 10th is World Mental Health Day, but you don't need a day on the calendar to give yourself permission to talk to someone. I've been in therapy for a long time and the stuff rattling around in my head always just quiets down the second I say it out loud. And it doesn't have to be some big life crisis. Maybe it's a work thing that's taking up too much space, or hard relationship moment, or just a feeling that something's off. That's enough. That's worth talking about.

• 38:38Speaker 01

  You know, I love therapy more than anything. Gets me through. Often I'll want to cancel because I'm like, I don't really have anything to talk about. And then I'll go and... I have some major revelation.

• 38:49Dax Shepard?

  You know, I was just talking to a friend who has just started it. And I said, one of the most powerful elements of it is just hearing yourself say out loud, the thing that's been ruminating in your head and how different it sounds. Once it's out into the world, you gain perspective immediately just by hearing yourself say it.

• 39:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, you do.

• 39:05Dax Shepard?

  If you've been waiting to start therapy, BetterHelp works with more than 125 health plan networks and eligible members have an average copay of just $23 per session with insurance. Don't have insurance or live outside the US? You can still get 10% off your first month. Do yourself a favor and just try it. Future you will be grateful. Visit betterhelp.com/dax to explore your payment options. That's better H E L P dot com slash DAX.

• 39:39Speaker 02

  Poverty is humiliating when you're young like that. You just don't fit in. We never filled up our gas tank ever. I never remember my mom or an aunt or one of these crazy people I was with. No one had the money to put more than like three to five bucks in your gas tank. And so I had a lot of that. It's like a chip on your shoulder, but it's not. And then you allow for judging until it gets to a certain point and then you react to that judging. It's like, well, wait a minute, I'm just as good as you. I had a lot of that shit early on, especially in relationships. I was left a lot, like a lot of people, abandonment issues and just thinking everyone leaves. Everyone's going to leave, so please don't love me or love me and please don't let me go.

• 40:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 40:23Speaker 02

  I think that's a journey for a lot of people in my own journey and my own spiritual walk, which is a part of this whole experience of the white lotus, falling in love with yourself. God damn, if you can get to that point where you're okay with you, even though once you find it, it will very quickly disappear.

• 40:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's transient.

• 40:41Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And once you have that realization and once you have a degree of self-love, at least this is what my experience was, that also came with real boundaries. I've gotten better about this is no man's land right now. We're okay, but this is not okay with me and I'm not poor anymore. But I don't think that ever fully leaves you.

• 40:59Dax Shepard?

  I'd wrestle a lot with, I hated rich people. If there were a bad guy in the world, it was rich people. Cause I felt less than around them. I didn't like how I felt. It's not their fault. I now know that, but you know, I have this chip on my shoulder. And then trying to come to terms with the reality of, oh, I'm one of those people. That's a little discombobulating.

• 41:19Speaker 02

  And there's shame around that.

• 41:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. You feel survivor's guilt. It's complicated.

• 41:24Speaker 02

  The thing that I had is something you kind of brought up earlier. And experiencing it in the back of this car came out from San Diego. My envy wasn't around the acquisition of things, even though I just wish we had some fucking heat. You know what I mean? Like, like these are just bare minimum.

• 41:39Speaker 01

  The water would stay liquid.

• 41:41Speaker 02

  Yes, I wish we had some yogurt.

• 41:43Dax Shepard?

  Wish I didn't have to cut off half of this block of cheese to get to the good cheese.

• 41:47Speaker 02

  That's exactly right. But it was time to think I was jealous and envious of, these people went to college and they were fucking in college. Even though they worked or whatever, but they had an opportunity to just sit and learn or read and then go talk about things that they had just learned. I never had the space to do that. I would have been good at it. I left school after a year and a half.

• 42:08Speaker 01

  We do forget, we take for granted that going to school and being able to be there and think critically is a privilege.

• 42:15Speaker 02

  It is a privilege.

• 42:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 42:16Speaker 01

  We just do it. We think we have to do it. We go, we try to get through it and it should be rethought of.

• 42:23Speaker 02

  Or just like a daily reminder of this is a privilege. It's not a right. And what do you do with the time that you have at the microphone? What is it that you want to say? Well, I didn't have that in college. I have been able to, even without money, give myself those opportunities through travel and being alone, giving myself permission to be on the road for a very long period of time. Understanding culture. I've talked about this in other interviews, so this isn't revelatory. But in addition to that, I feel that way about work. I feel that way about the time I'm now afforded to give myself. To live in my imagination in preparation to start a job and to stay in that world over the course of telling that story. So I feel like I have that now. Like that's

• 43:07Speaker 02

  my education. That's time to ask those existential questions or listen to that music this person would listen to or watch those movies that are applicable to this experience.

• 43:17Dax Shepard?

  To just indulge your imagination.

• 43:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's right.

• 43:19Dax Shepard?

  You have time and space.

• 43:20Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 43:20Dax Shepard?

  To fucking indulge this part of your brain.

• 43:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:23Dax Shepard?

  That's so special.

• 43:24Speaker 02

  And I don't take that for granted.

• 43:25Dax Shepard?

  I'm with you. Yeah. I'm never interested in why someone wanted to become an actor, but with you I am. How do we go from that tiny town in a year and a half in college? When do you go, oh, I'm gonna be a performer?

• 43:36Speaker 02

  I feel like I was always a performer. I was raised around some very performative people, interesting, funny people. They were great storytellers.

• 43:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, if you're gonna take up time at the dinner table, it better fucking land.

• 43:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, and even if you couldn't, because there were five stories going at once, do you know what I mean? But more often than not, people would pass the baton in my household. There wasn't a lot of talking over each other. It was depending on the level of inebriation, how fucking short or how long the story is. These were very eccentric people. When it was my turn to talk, you know, it was like Little Walt. It was the great love of the women in my family. I knew that that, again, was a privilege and not a right to be given the microphone around this group of really great storytellers. And I would tell my storytelling asshole. I think that was always kind of a part of it, but I really kind of stumbled into it.

• 44:25Dax Shepard?

  Well, when you moved to LA, did you move here specifically to try to act?

• 44:29Speaker 02

  I did. I wanted a great experience. I got an American Express in college my freshman year. As soon as I got there, god damn, I got mail? Who knows I'm going to school here? How do you guys know?

• 44:39Dax Shepard?

  It's happening.

• 44:40Speaker 02

  Long goggles? Long goggles? I got a mailbox? And it was four or five pieces of mail. And first thing that I opened was an offer to join American Express. And with this offer in 1989 were two round trip tickets for $99 east of the Mississippi or $199 west of the Mississippi.

• 44:58Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 44:59Speaker 02

  Plane tickets for like a thousand dollars from Atlanta to fucking Los Angeles in 1989. I mean, they were not cheap. And I just saw it and I thought, this experience is over. I'm gonna do my year in the school. I'm never gonna spend a dollar on this card. I'll just have it and then I'm gonna use both of these vouchers. And that's exactly what I did a year later.

• 45:16Speaker 01

  And who went with you?

• 45:17Speaker 02

  Nobody.

• 45:18Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 45:18Speaker 02

  I went on my own.

• 45:19Dax Shepard?

  Cause you had two vouchers.

• 45:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, because I had two.

• 45:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I didn't know.

• 45:22Speaker 02

  No, no, no. I used both of them. My dad came with me when I drove across country because he wanted to.

• 45:28Dax Shepard?

  Get his eyes on the big.

• 45:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  Big city?

• 45:31Dax Shepard?

  I wish you could have seen this photo. His dad is adorned head to toe in black leather, turquoise on every single finger. He has photos of himself. People do ask him for photos everywhere he goes. He's a very interesting person. He's visiting Walton in New York and people are asking for photos and he's, oh, well, I have one signed. He has signed photos of himself. He has signed photos of Walton that he has signed.

• 45:51Speaker 01

  Oh, my. You need to make a mug with his picture of that and it needs to say, there's no this without me. Cause that's also true.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  And that's the end of the interview.

• 46:05Dax Shepard?

  Tip for that.

• 46:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:07Dax Shepard?

  The ride really, so I'm gonna blow through a couple. Cause I wanna get to three things.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 46:11Dax Shepard?

  The Shield is the first from the outside. Seems like you're now in the big leagues. You have a steady paycheck. You're one of the season regulars. Is that the big?

• 46:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think so. I moved here when I was 19. I had $300 in my pocket and I lived the way that I lived and worked how I worked. And then what gave me permission not to feel like I needed to work anymore, even though I did for a little while afterwards, was The Apostle with Robert Duvall.

• 46:37Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 46:37Speaker 02

  And that was the, wow, okay, that's my hero. And so that was really, even though I was working, I think I made $21,000 over three months for the next Karate Kid. For me, that was a lot of money.

• 46:49Dax Shepard?

  Well, clearly, yeah, from 19 to 30, you are when you get on the Shield.

• 46:53Speaker 02

  29, yeah, 29.

• 46:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. You make it work. You're on Beverly Hills 90210.

• 46:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did a fair amount of films, but then I thought like Shanghai Noon was gonna be the thing.

• 47:02Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 47:03Speaker 02

  I had a pretty big role in Born Identity that ultimately they decided to go with Gabriel Mann. And instead, and they just offered me another thing. People didn't know what the fuck to do with me. No one was paying attention and I had some extraordinary experiences on location over that first 10 years. And then the shield happened, yeah, when I was 29 and nobody knew that it was gonna be what it became.

• 47:23Dax Shepard?

  Eighty six episodes or something?

• 47:25Speaker 02

  Eighty six, yeah, yeah.

• 47:26Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so I think this is so fascinating. You had auditioned for Eastbound and Down and you didn't get it.

• 47:31Speaker 02

  No.

• 47:32Dax Shepard?

  And the feedback was?

• 47:33Speaker 02

  David Gordon Green, who was a friend of mine from the independent film circuit, I just called and said, you know, Danny absolutely loves you, but just it might be a little too dangerous for what we're doing. It's a little too.

• 47:44Speaker 01

  Chaotic?

• 47:45Speaker 02

  Not even chaotic. It's just a little scary. I said to Danny, look, man, I think you need somebody to go toe to toe with you.

• 47:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. And then we have some friends in common. Leslie Bibb actually had a New Year's Eve party and Danny and David were there and I was there. She's one of my best friends with Sam. Then that was kind of the beginning of a conversation.

• 48:03Dax Shepard?

  I remember watching an interview with Todd Phillips and I thought he said the coolest thing. He said, you know, for me, comedy that is good has to be very dangerous.

• 48:14Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 48:14Dax Shepard?

  Or it's not comedy to me. If you like, look at his work, you're like, oh yeah, it's kind of high stakes. Everything's a little scary. You look at, you know, The Hangover, any of these, they go wild. When they're gonna jump a van, they're gonna jump a fucking van.

• 48:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're real stakes.

• 48:28Dax Shepard?

  So then you get to come in and do Vice Principals.

• 48:31Speaker 02

  They offered it and I was doing the hateful eight. We were in Colorado and I read it and he talked about it at this party. And I read it and thought, okay, this I know what to do with. And so I just kind of did that. And it was three lines into it where I think he was like, okay.

• 48:44Dax Shepard?

  You're outrageously good in that. I couldn't believe the story of hatefully. And if you would just indulge me and Monica, I think the audition for hatefully is one of my favorite audition stories I've heard.

• 48:57Speaker 02

  If it's the story that I think you're talking about, that was for Django.

• 49:02Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, duh. But you get hatefully.

• 49:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, the hatefully.

• 49:05Dax Shepard?

  I'm sorry.

• 49:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, that's easy. I can't believe you know what you fucking know. Honestly.

• 49:11Dax Shepard?

  But it starts with a call to Rodriguez.

• 49:13Speaker 02

  I get this script like everybody else in town and I read it on the plane to New York. Work and staying with a friend and it's one of the best things I've ever read in my life. He's only made nine, you know, so it's the repeat cast. It's the golden ticket. It's a very small group of people. I just feel that way about Mike White and the White Lotus. There are a number of filmmakers that have that stable of actors. And if you can kind of get in that, Christopher Guest, I mean, unbelievable. But Quentin is probably by far the most in my book. But I read it and it's like, I don't have to get this. I just want to fucking read these words in front of this man. And so I called Robert Rodriguez, who's a friend of mine, and they're obviously really good friends. And I said, man, I've never asked you for anything. Could you please text Quentin for me and just say that I have this guy I'd like to read?

• 49:57Speaker 02

  10 minutes later, he texted back the text from Quentin, which was, I love Goggins. I love his work, you know, and it was like, fuck, okay, well, then that's it.

• 50:04Speaker 01

  Did you print it out and frame it?

• 50:06Speaker 02

  Unbelievable.

• 50:07Dax Shepard?

  That's enough. It's more than I wanted.

• 50:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, we could ever expect, right? It's always nice to live your life as if you should be surprised if anyone has seen any fucking thing that you've done.

• 50:16Dax Shepard?

  But to be seen by a hero just feels really crazy.

• 50:19Speaker 01

  And then liked, not seen, liked and appreciated.

• 50:23Speaker 02

  And then it just happened to coincide with a really good friend of Quentin's was one of my wife's dear friends. And she called and she said, I just read the script and you gotta be in this movie, man. You're in this thing. Yeah. And she said, let's have a dinner with Quentin. But I'm the guy that's like, no, no, no, I don't want to do that. I don't ask anyone for anyone. I'm not that fucking guy. Have this dinner, talk about everything but the script until the very end. And I said, I think this is what you're saying and how I felt a thousand people that probably said. He said, well, I want you to come in and just pick a few roles. And so I did, started kind of reading them and there it was. And he was like, that's fucking great, man. I'll be speaking to you. And I said, well, I'm not leaving.

• 51:06Speaker 02

  I said, well, I didn't come here just to read these three roles. I don't give a fuck if I get this job, man. I just want to read your words in front of you. I want to read all of these roles.

• 51:16Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 51:16Dax Shepard?

  I want to read Leo. I want to read Sam.

• 51:18Speaker 02

  I use Kurt Russell. It's like, I just want to read this shit. He's like, really? And he said, okay, let's do it. And then he read everyone else in the scenes.

• 51:25Speaker 01

  And you did the whole movie, basically?

• 51:27Speaker 02

  We worked for. Like an hour, hour and a half. We did a lot.

• 51:30Dax Shepard?

  How fucking bad.

• 51:31Speaker 02

  Big seminal scenes, just the unadulterated enthusiasm and love for what he puts out in the world. And his words in at the end of it, it was like, fucking really good to see you, man. Can't wait for the next time.

• 51:42Dax Shepard?

  This will cross my mind on my deathbed. Thank you.

• 51:44Speaker 02

  Thank you, man.

• 51:45Speaker 01

  Oh, how cool.

• 51:46Speaker 02

  And then, yeah, you get the call. Couple of months went by. It's like, okay, buddy. Come down to New Orleans and play with us.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  What if you're like, I can't, I don't want it. I just came to just do that one thing. I don't really want to be in the movie.

• 51:57Dax Shepard?

  You can't top what happened.

• 52:00Speaker 02

  But thanks. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

• 52:01Dax Shepard?

  I imagine you deal with this. The characters are so fucking different. I may have seen Vice Principals, but if I don't follow show business, I don't realize that's the guy from Hateful Eight. They're so different. And if I fell in love with Uncle Baby Billy, I'm not putting that together with The Shield. It's almost probably a bit of an Achilles, which is, I think you deserve to be the biggest star in the world, but I think the work is so unique and different. I don't know people are connecting the dots because now I'm a hyper fan and I didn't even think, oh, right, I gotta go and watch. I went and watched Justified. I had never seen it, but I'm like, I'll go up for Goggins. God damn, he's great in that again. But I watched Hateful Eight a couple of months ago in a sea of the most talented people. That's the performance in the movie. It's incredible.

• 52:44Dax Shepard?

  I can't believe you went from a smaller role in Jangle and then got called to the big leagues and did what you did in that movie is fucking nuts, dude.

• 52:53Speaker 02

  Thank you, man.

• 52:54Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my God. It's so impressive. I'm so happy for you that you got to go into Tarantino's world and have him trust you with that much. And then to fucking score touchdown after touchdown.

• 53:07Speaker 02

  Well, look, maybe you feel this way. A lot of people in this business and outside of this business listen to your podcast. And I think for so many of us kind of coming up, I mean, we're from a different generation, but the barriers to entry, the gatekeepers to this experience, it's like every day, you're not even trying to fucking get to base camp one on Mount Everest. You're just trying to get up that little fucking hill that you're gonna fall down. Yeah, that's right. You're just running a flight to the airport in Nepal.

• 53:37Dax Shepard?

  At that point, it's as far as you could have gone if you feel like I do about Tarantino.

• 53:41Speaker 02

  It's exactly how I feel, but whenever you see someone that's been around for a long time, like Rockwell or Crudeup, I mean, Garrett Dillhart, all of these fucking people that have been around for a really long time, and we've been around for a long time, and you just see consistently good work over a long time. And it's like, oh, wow. I mean, Pedro Pascal's been doing great work for such a long time. And it's like, wow, okay, there's one for the good guys.

• 54:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:03Speaker 02

  There is no limit on their staying power.

• 54:06Dax Shepard?

  They're inoculated by talent.

• 54:07Speaker 02

  And wisdom and choices. And so the guys, I'm also a fan of, I won't name any names, but we know them. The people that, if you were an envious person, which I'm really not, except at other people's careers, I really don't look into their lanes. But the people in my twenties, for a moment, I was like, fuck, I wish I could, you know, but I wouldn't trade my walk for

• 54:26Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 54:27Speaker 02

  those three years. And I think you probably wouldn't either. I've been walking the road that I've been walking for a very long time.

• 54:33Dax Shepard?

  I would argue it's preferred.

• 54:34Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 54:35Dax Shepard?

  When you're young, if you come out and you drop right into the World Series, it's hard to appreciate, it's hard to conceptualize, it's hard to integrate.

• 54:42Speaker 02

  And it's hard to stay.

• 54:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:44Dax Shepard?

  It's hard to stay. And to kind of just keep walking in the back door, and then you leave and you're like, who was that guy that was that, you know? It's so preferred for your life story, your own narrative self. It's such the way to do it.

• 54:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think so. You don't remember this, but very first time I met you, it was nothing more of like a, hey, but it was really just me across the room silently thinking like, fuck you, fuck this fucking guy.

• 55:08Speaker 01

  Why?

• 55:08Dax Shepard?

  What is this?

• 55:09Speaker 02

  Cause it was for an audition, and it was just the two of us in this room. And I walked in and I looked at you and you were sitting behind this desk. And it was like a room with chairs. They had us kind of waiting. Maybe it was a second callback or something. I don't know. But I walked in and it was like, oh, this fucking guy. I just felt like it ain't my day.

• 55:28Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 55:30Dax Shepard?

  I don't know this.

• 55:31Speaker 02

  Well, it was

• 55:31Dax Shepard?

  I'm so scared.

• 55:32Speaker 02

  No, employee of the month.

• 55:33Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 55:35Dax Shepard?

  My god.

• 55:37Speaker 02

  With Dane.

• 55:38Dax Shepard?

  Dane.

• 55:38Speaker 02

  And Dane came in, I don't know if you knew him, I don't remember, but there was some interaction that it was just like this easy, oh, these guys.

• 55:46Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 55:46Speaker 01

  That is so funny.

• 55:49Dax Shepard?

  Impossible to believe the story.

• 55:51Speaker 02

  I don't remember where it was, but I remember the room and I remember where you were sitting.

• 55:55Dax Shepard?

  No way.

• 55:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then seeing the movie kind of when it came out, it was like, wow, you know what? Yeah, it was his, for sure.

• 56:02Speaker 01

  That's an ego boost for you, should be.

• 56:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and yeah, if I were you, I would hate me.

• 56:07Speaker 02

  No.

• 56:08Dax Shepard?

  Yes, like what this motherfucker was on.

• 56:10Speaker 02

  I just felt like, no, I was just like, you know, when you kind of walk in one and it's like, oh, well, you know what? I'm still gonna have fun. And I did.

• 56:17Dax Shepard?

  I want to see the version of the movie with you.

• 56:19Speaker 02

  I don't know, man.

• 56:20Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my god, that's crazy. That just blew my mind. Okay, last thing before White Lotus is of course Righteous Gemstones, Uncle Baby Billy.

• 56:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:28Dax Shepard?

  Again, I see all your shit out of order. So I first saw Righteous and I was like, who the fuck is this guy? You know, Uncle Baby Billy and Chris, I'm just obsessed with the show. I'm writing emails to Danny, who I barely know, but I have to tell him after every episode. The pilot that I'm like, did Scorsese fucking direct this pilot? This is a comedy? Look at these shots.

• 56:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:50Dax Shepard?

  We fall so in love with you, or he was in Vice Principals, we learned, we go back. I watch Vice Principals just because I'm now on my Walton Goggins train. And I'm like, oh, my god, and he's this and this, I don't really have a question.

• 57:01Speaker 02

  We just finished the fourth season, it's really good. I can't tell you anything that it's about, but the first episode of season four, and I'm gonna go on record as saying this, as a piece of writing, if I had read that in the Atlantic, I think the motherfucker would be nominated for a Pulitzer.

• 57:19Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 57:20Speaker 02

  You know, really what he's saying at this stage of his exploration in that world. And everybody obviously has a great arc and a great story. But Baby Billy will have the summer 2025 fucking hit. I'm gonna tell you right now, whatever you're wearing right now, come June or whatever, when you're a bathing suit, you will be singing this fucking song. I promise.

• 57:46Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 57:46Speaker 02

  It's good, y'all.

• 57:48Speaker 01

  I can't wait.

• 57:49Speaker 02

  And it says a lot about a lot. It's cool.

• 57:51Dax Shepard?

  I guess my one question about Vice Principals and Righteous is if you had to guess at a percentage, what percentage is you guys riffing and what percentage is on the page? It feels impossibly organic.

• 58:06Speaker 02

  Ninety-eight percent is on the page. No shit.

• 58:10Speaker 01

  He's so brilliant.

• 58:11Dax Shepard?

  That's some writing.

• 58:12Speaker 02

  Edie Patterson.

• 58:13Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 58:13Dax Shepard?

  She can let her rip.

• 58:14Speaker 02

  Do fucking anything.

• 58:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 58:16Speaker 02

  Adam can fucking do that. Michaela Watkins can do that. Corddry, that's not my thing, but I understand where the story is and I understand, okay, these are five or six tangents that I can go down, turn yourself over to that and see kind of where that takes you. But he realized that about me very early on, that it's the words on the page that is liberating to me.

• 58:37Dax Shepard?

  Right, right, right.

• 58:38Speaker 02

  And then we carried that into Righteous Gemstones. I think I'll work with him for the rest of my life.

• 58:42Dax Shepard?

  If there was a career to NBA, it'd be yours because you're in the Tarantino stuff. But I would say of the television shows, my favorite comedy is definitely Righteous Gemstones. I think my favorite big, huge action thing is Fallout. I love that show.

• 58:54Speaker 02

  Thanks, man.

• 58:55Dax Shepard?

  And then my very favorite, both of ours, kind of social commentary, character-y deliciousness is White Lotus. You're in the three shows that are my favorite. The two previous seasons have been so good. I think we all had so much anxiety when season two came around. So I'm like, how on earth, that hotel manager in season one, like, who's gonna pick up that slack? And then it delivered.

• 59:19Speaker 01

  They did it.

• 59:19Dax Shepard?

  His social commentary and what he's able to tackle, which I feel like you're not allowed to, and he does perfectly.

• 59:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:27Dax Shepard?

  Just the notion last season, you had these two couples and these two cheat, they're shitty, and this is the good one. And then as you're playing with it, you're like, well, I'm not sure which one I'd rather be a part of.

• 59:36Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 59:37Dax Shepard?

  Oh, here's the perfect guy who says all the right things. Why isn't she horny for him? We gotta deal with that. That's a real thing. It's so brave and awesome.

• 59:44Speaker 02

  It is. And no one writes an existential crisis the way that he does. Wealth gives him permission, I think, to parody these people and to make them real simultaneously. Because these situations do happen to people outside of this very specific economic kind of section of society he explores.

• 1:00:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:03Speaker 02

  This is his words, not mine. If first season was about money, if the second season was about sex, this season is about religion. It was everything that I had hoped it would be. And there are so many things that happened over the course of this experience that I'm not at liberty to really talk about.

• 1:00:18Dax Shepard?

  Tough project to promote, actually.

• 1:00:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is with a lot of projects, but that one in particular, I think they do actually kill you.

• 1:00:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:00:24Speaker 02

  There's a body floating somewhere. But I felt like I had my own apocalypse now, that I was Willard in a boat going upstream to meet Captain Kurtz, which was also me.

• 1:00:36Dax Shepard?

  Because of the real life or the story?

• 1:00:40Speaker 02

  Because of the story that I was telling.

• 1:00:42Dax Shepard?

  Does it help that you're in Thailand for six months, living at the actual hotel you're working in?

• 1:00:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, living at the hotel. And sometimes the hotel was completely bought out, so it was just us. And then other times, you know, they weren't able to do that.

• 1:00:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:54Speaker 02

  So you're literally checking in as an actor next to guests that are actually there on vacation.

• 1:00:59Dax Shepard?

  You're like peeking at the hotel pool going like, oh, wow, that's that character.

• 1:01:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a weird fourth wall being broken in a way.

• 1:01:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I've seen two episodes and it's really fucking good.

• 1:01:09Speaker 01

  Oh, I cannot wait.

• 1:01:10Speaker 02

  And it's similar, but it's different. And I can say that my journey in this world, it's something that hasn't been seen or explored by Mike in other seasons, but everyone just kills it.

• 1:01:22Dax Shepard?

  Is it hard being there, though, for six months?

• 1:01:24Speaker 02

  No, fuck yeah, man. I mean, I've been home 11 days this year. In success, it becomes harder, you know? And that's the thing I don't think people realize.

• 1:01:32Dax Shepard?

  Because you're having to turn down now really great opportunities.

• 1:01:34Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, you're just away from home for a long time. It's lonely.

• 1:01:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:38Speaker 02

  I don't think people anticipate that. It's like, oh, my God, I'm getting all these opportunities. And it's incredible, but at the end of the day, you go back to a house or your hotel room and you're alone, which I'm good at. And if I'm having a problem with it, I know other people are. Everyone went through their own crisis over the course of this experience.

• 1:01:57Speaker 01

  Which is maybe helpful for them. Project.

• 1:01:59Speaker 02

  It's a story that can induce that experience.

• 1:02:01Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:02:01Speaker 02

  Certainly for me, the way that I approached this way of storytelling. It was a fucking incredible experience. It had everything in it, soup to nuts. And I can't wait for you to see it.

• 1:02:12Speaker 01

  I cannot wait.

• 1:02:13Speaker 02

  And I can't wait to hear what you think about when you do see it.

• 1:02:15Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, I'm so excited.

• 1:02:16Speaker 02

  Maybe we'll come back on at the end of this thing.

• 1:02:18Dax Shepard?

  When you get the call to join that cast.

• 1:02:21Speaker 02

  It was interesting because they were doing season two and I didn't know Mike, but we had friends in common like we all do at this point. And I remember my agent saying, well, you should write a letter to Mike. It's like, no, man, I ain't that guy. I ain't doing that. They didn't tell me that conversations were even happening or that it was getting close. And then it was out here, we were doing early press for Fallout. And went out to dinner with my agents, which I hadn't seen in a while. And they said, listen, congratulations. I said, for what? And then they said, Mike wants you to do White Lotus, season three. And I just started fucking bawling, started shaking at the table.

• 1:02:57Dax Shepard?

  Really?

• 1:02:58Speaker 02

  Because I felt like it's a world I could help him tell his story.

• 1:03:02Dax Shepard?

  You were built for White Lotus.

• 1:03:03Speaker 01

  You really were.

• 1:03:04Speaker 02

  I suppose I would have felt that way if any other show or movie you're excited about or filmmaker. But it's when you understand, like Quentin, I felt like I know how to tell a story. I felt that way with Mike and a few of the filmmakers that I've gotten an opportunity to work with over the course of my career. This is one of them. I walked outside and called my wife.

• 1:03:20Speaker 01

  That's amazing.

• 1:03:21Dax Shepard?

  My last question to land the plane is, I also follow you on Instagram. I also know Cordray goes with you to like Greece or Italy. You guys will do a proper summer in another country. It seems like you're putting as much effort into your actual life, being as artistic as your work life.

• 1:03:40Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 1:03:41Dax Shepard?

  And I'd imagine some people might think that just happens, but I imagine you got to actually approach your life, just like you do a role.

• 1:03:47Speaker 02

  Wow, never had anyone say that. Yeah, I think that it's with intention. And so this happens to be a very long stretch. We sold our home in Los Angeles and we moved across the country and we bit off maybe a little bit more than we could chew. And it's like, okay, I gotta go to work, even though I've never really done anything just for the money or that I'm not proud of or that I didn't want to do. But I got offered a movie right when the strikes were being talked about. I had this trip planned and they said, we'll offer you this amount of money. And I said, thank you, but no, thank you. And they said, okay, well, what about this amount of money? And I said, thank you, but no, thank you. They said, what would it take? I said, there is no amount of money. I'm sorry. And your listeners or other actors may say, fuck that guy. You know what?

• 1:04:27Speaker 02

  I hadn't seen my kid in a long time and I had seen my friends and that fucking time with my kid, it means more to me than anything. We're gonna do that again this year with intention, whatever you can afford. My mom did it in Panama City Beach, Florida in a fucking tent. That is time and it's far too precious at this stage of the game. And it is something that you can never get back. And I have shame and remorse and regret about the time that I have been away, like anyone does with their children. It's with intention and we're gonna live the fuck out of life. Strap yourself in. Strap yourself in.

• 1:05:01Dax Shepard?

  Buckle the fuck up. Let's all.

• 1:05:02Speaker 01

  End on this.

• 1:05:03Speaker 02

  Strap in.

• 1:05:04Dax Shepard?

  Let's strap in.

• 1:05:05Speaker 02

  Thank you so much, Go Daddy Arrow.

• 1:05:07Dax Shepard?

  All right, you got a Super Bowl commercial. Let's just add that.

• 1:05:10Speaker 02

  Hey, man. Yeah, this is gonna come out after. Yeah, that's exactly right.

• 1:05:13Speaker 01

  Go back and watch it on YouTube.

• 1:05:15Dax Shepard?

  Goggins goggles has a Super Bowl commercial. Well deserved.

• 1:05:19Speaker 02

  Go Daddy Arrow.

• 1:05:20Dax Shepard?

  And hopefully people will be watching the commercial. God, you look great.

• 1:05:23Speaker 01

  Everyone looks so good.

• 1:05:25Speaker 02

  You know what? If you can imagine every day just feeling like apres ski.

• 1:05:29Speaker 01

  I love it. I'm gonna wear them out.

• 1:05:31Dax Shepard?

  What I'm thinking, Monica, is our longstanding debate about whether or not I could fly an airplane if the pilot went down.

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:05:37Dax Shepard?

  You with those goggles on?

• 1:05:38Speaker 01

  You think I did too?

• 1:05:39Dax Shepard?

  I'm not sure who should be flying the airplane, you or me.

• 1:05:43Speaker 01

  That is quite the compliment.

• 1:05:44Speaker 02

  You look like a professional in any field with those goggles on. Hey, you know what? What an honor, man.

• 1:05:49Dax Shepard?

  Well, I'm so glad this finally.

• 1:05:51Speaker 01

  What an honor for us.

• 1:05:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:52Speaker 01

  We've been trying to get you in for years.

• 1:05:54Speaker 02

  Thank you. You're so generous of yourselves and so giving of your time and such great listeners. And thank you.

• 1:06:01Dax Shepard?

  What a pleasure, man. Just loving you from afar. So the fact that we're sitting together is such a blast for me. I adore you, Walton. This has been a blast. Thank you.

• 1:06:09Speaker 02

  What a joy, what a joy.

• 1:06:12Speaker 05

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 1:06:19Dax Shepard?

  We get support from Instagram teen accounts. So we talk a lot on this show about how the world is different now than when we were growing up. And one of the biggest differences is obviously social media. And I think a lot of people wonder, okay, what's actually being done to make it safer for teenagers?

• 1:06:35Speaker 01

  Which is a fair question.

• 1:06:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so Instagram has got something called teen accounts and they come with automatic protections built in by default. So anyone between 13 and 17 is automatically placed into this experience. They get age appropriate content settings, contact limits, so that by default, only people they're already connected to can message them. And time management tools, daily time limit reminders, and also sleep mode that mutes notifications from 10:00 PM to 7:00 AM.

• 1:07:02Speaker 01

  Sleep mode is genius.

• 1:07:04Dax Shepard?

  Right? And here's the thing, for anyone under 16, a parent has to give permission to change any of those settings to be less strict. The guardrails are on and Instagram keeps building new safety features to create age appropriate experiences for teens.

• 1:07:19Speaker 01

  I am really glad Instagram's helping to give parents peace of mind with teen accounts.

• 1:07:23Dax Shepard?

  Learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work to protect teens online at instagram.com/teenaccounts. We get support by Peloton. You know that feeling when you're spiraling over a problem and you just can't figure it out? When that happens to me, I need a change of pace and I've found that running is the best way. It takes my brain out of the driver's seat and I come back with a fresh perspective. Running can be freeing and cathartic and Peloton helps you feel all of that. And now that feeling fits wherever you need it with the new Peloton Tread Flex. It's movable and foldable, designed to fit your life. So next time you feel stuck, you can go for a run literally anywhere, whether that's in your office, living room, or even the attic.

• 1:08:08Dax Shepard?

  Plus, they have classes with expert instructors and programs to meet you at any level and keep you moving. Let yourself run. Explore the new Peloton Tread Flex at onepeloton.com.

• 1:08:21Dax Shepard?

  We get support from Skims. So Monica just informed me that she's a girl's girl and I nodded like I knew exactly what that meant.

• 1:08:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the girls who get it, they get it.

• 1:08:32Dax Shepard?

  Okay, but for those of us who are clearly not girls, walk me through it.

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  Well, you know how much I love my Skims fleece joggers because the plush fleece is so soft. It's cozy. It's really comfortable without feeling too heavy. Well, I went to friend them and she would not stop talking about how comfy they were. She almost didn't give them back to me, which was upsetting, but I'm a girl's girl, so I let her have it.

• 1:08:53Dax Shepard?

  Great, great, great.

• 1:08:54Speaker 01

  So the sleep sets are awesome because they are very soft and comfortable, but they're cute. If I'm in my sleep set, I feel fine about going down the street to pick up my food. I'm still looking cute, but I'm comfy and I'm cozy.

• 1:09:07Dax Shepard?

  Roger.

• 1:09:08Speaker 01

  A really fun thing to do is if you're going on vacation with your girlfriends, to get matching Skims pajamas. I've done this with Callie and it is so fun. First of all, the pics are so cute, but also it's just fun and friendship.

• 1:09:21Dax Shepard?

  So a girl's girl is looking out for your friends with better loungewear. I get it. Am I one of your girls now?

• 1:09:26Speaker 01

  You are. You and the other girlies can shop my favorite loungewear and pajamas at skims.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select podcasts in the survey and be sure to select our show in the dropdown menu that follows.

• 1:09:40Dax Shepard?

  We are supported by Walden University. You know that feeling when you've been thinking about making a move, going after the degree, the promotion, the thing you keep telling yourself you'll get to someday? Walden University is built for that moment. For over 50 years, Walden has helped working professionals get the W, the knowledge, the skills and the confidence to create real change in their careers and communities. Their programs are designed around your life, not the other way around. With Tempo Learning, available in select programs, there are no rigid schedules or set weekly deadlines. You move at your own pace. And Walden's faculty aren't just academics. They're practitioners who bring real world experience into everything they teach.

• 1:10:23Dax Shepard?

  From your first class to career coaching and beyond, Walden is your partner the whole way. Take the first step and learn at a pace that works for you. Visit waldenu.edu. Walden University. Set a course for change. Certified to operate by CHEV.

• 1:10:47Dax Shepard?

  God Monica's here. She's gonna let him have the facts.

• 1:10:51Speaker 03

  Oh, look at our trophy.

• 1:10:54Dax Shepard?

  Look at our trophy.

• 1:10:57Speaker 03

  That's a cool trophy, very um, space age.

• 1:11:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, um, it's meant to be hung.

• 1:11:03Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:11:04Dax Shepard?

  It has this at the bottom. I guess it looks like a quotation above someone's head.

• 1:11:08Speaker 03

  It does.

• 1:11:09Dax Shepard?

  I'm holding up a square armchair expert with X Shepard Spotify. Five hundred million streams plaque we were awarded. Gold status. Gold status. I need to start this fact check by saying my most deepest thank you. I've never been more grateful. Then last night, I was asked to be one of Bill's. Ten or eleven stops on his book tour.

• 1:11:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, awesome.

• 1:11:39Dax Shepard?

  And it was at a live event, the Kermier. I know, some beautiful theater.

• 1:11:46Speaker 03

  Where?

• 1:11:47Dax Shepard?

  In San Francisco.

• 1:11:48Speaker 03

  Oh, nice.

• 1:11:49Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:11:49Speaker 03

  Sorry if you already said that.

• 1:11:50Dax Shepard?

  No, I don't think I did.

• 1:11:51Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:11:52Dax Shepard?

  For the listener, I didn't say that. Okay. It's not our show, right?

• 1:11:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:57Dax Shepard?

  It's not handheld mics. I can't go out and I had a time and warm everything up and then bring Bill out. There's like a whole thing, you know, it's their show.

• 1:12:06Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:12:07Dax Shepard?

  And there'll be a video and another woman introduce us for a while and then we sit down. I'm in the wrong side. Suffice to say, it just wasn't like one of our shows.

• 1:12:16Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 1:12:18Dax Shepard?

  So I guess they gave me. About a ton. I'm not gonna exaggerate. Maybe like twenty percent nerves.

• 1:12:25Speaker 03

  Of course, it's different.

• 1:12:27Dax Shepard?

  And it's like, I don't know if it's all people there to see Bill Gates and they're learning who I am and they don't understand I'm gonna have a sense of humor, whatever. All this to say.

• 1:12:38Dax Shepard?

  Soon as we sat down, I said, are there any arm cherries here? And Monty. Whole place was armed. And I immediately felt so comfortable.

• 1:12:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:12:51Dax Shepard?

  And confident and relaxed.

• 1:12:53Speaker 03

  That's awesome.

• 1:12:54Dax Shepard?

  And I was so grateful. I couldn't believe how grateful I was. I was like, fucking arm cherries. Show up.

• 1:13:00Speaker 03

  They really do show up.

• 1:13:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And you know, I had my whole family.

• 1:13:04Speaker 03

  Yes, your original family.

• 1:13:06Dax Shepard?

  The OF.

• 1:13:07Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:13:08Speaker 01

  Your sister, your brother and your mom.

• 1:13:10Dax Shepard?

  That's right. The original crew.

• 1:13:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:12Dax Shepard?

  The original four.

• 1:13:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:13Dax Shepard?

  The Fab Four.

• 1:13:14Speaker 01

  Was that lovely?

• 1:13:14Dax Shepard?

  It was lovely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, and they got to meet Bill for a while.

• 1:13:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:21Dax Shepard?

  And, um, my brother has been obsessed with Bill since he was a kid.

• 1:13:26Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:13:27Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah. Cause my brother was very into computers.

• 1:13:29Speaker 01

  I didn't know that.

• 1:13:30Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:13:30Speaker 01

  Oh, how special.

• 1:13:32Dax Shepard?

  Obsessed with Bill Gates his whole life.

• 1:13:34Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:13:35Dax Shepard?

  Even when I was talking to him before the event, I was saying like, oh my God, you gotta read the book. It's so funny. There are so many funny stories in this book about him being 13 and showing up places with a briefcase and business suits on and making products. And the whole thing is so, it sounds like a cartoon.

• 1:13:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:52Dax Shepard?

  And he was like, oh yeah. My favorite thing is that his mom said, what are you doing in here in his, in his bedroom? And he said, uh, I'm thinking you should try it.

• 1:14:02Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:14:03Dax Shepard?

  And my brother just knew all this stuff I had just learned in the book that he somehow had already known. Anywho, they got to chat for quite a long time. And it was a very special experience for my brother.

• 1:14:13Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 1:14:14Dax Shepard?

  And yeah, it was sweet. And then yesterday, we gave it to San Francisco, straight up the heiny. We, in four hours, we saw that whole city, Monica.

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 1:14:27Dax Shepard?

  We saw Alcatraz. We saw the Golden Gate Bridge, the Bay Bridge. We went through Chinatown. We went through North Beach. We went to Lombard Street. We got on the trolley and rode the full loop of the trolley.

• 1:14:41Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:14:42Dax Shepard?

  Hanging out the side, Monica.

• 1:14:44Speaker 01

  So is that something you do with your original family? Cause I don't think you do that with your current family.

• 1:14:50Dax Shepard?

  No. My brother had never been to San Francisco, shockingly. But so, yeah, seeing Alcatraz and all that stuff, the Golden Gate Bridge. It's all very exciting. Trolley, Rice and Roney, the San Francisco tree.

• 1:14:59Speaker 01

  Oh, Full House, Ding Ding Ding, Olsen's.

• 1:15:02Dax Shepard?

  Lombard Street. Do you know Lombard Street?

• 1:15:06Speaker 01

  I've heard, I don't know.

• 1:15:07Dax Shepard?

  It's the one that's really twisty.

• 1:15:08Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:15:09Dax Shepard?

  That goes down extremely steep. And when my brother and I were children, there was a show called You Can't Do This on Television. No, that's Nickelodeon. It was called That's Incredible.

• 1:15:19Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:15:20Dax Shepard?

  Doug Democas, the Wheelie King, rode a dirt bike, a wheelie, down Lombard Street.

• 1:15:25Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:15:26Dax Shepard?

  Never putting it down, rode over cars on a wheelie.

• 1:15:29Speaker 01

  Oh, that sounds bad.

• 1:15:30Dax Shepard?

  It was a very memorable, seminal moment on television for us. And so to be on Lombard where our hero Doug Democas had done that sweet wheelie. And then some arm cherries were in a 1960s VW microbus coming down Lombard Street. And started hollering out the window.

• 1:15:46Speaker 01

  Sometimes people shout out the window and their arm cherries. This happens.

• 1:15:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:15:50Speaker 01

  Um, and I just want to say to anyone who does that to me, which has happened a few times.

• 1:15:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:56Speaker 01

  Don't think I'm a bitch if.

• 1:15:59Dax Shepard?

  You get shook a little bit?

• 1:16:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, or my first reaction is like really like.

• 1:16:03Dax Shepard?

  Twist, I really?

• 1:16:04Speaker 01

  Not I really like, don't.

• 1:16:06Dax Shepard?

  Don't hurt me.

• 1:16:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, don't hurt me.

• 1:16:08Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:16:08Speaker 01

  Don't hurt me.

• 1:16:09Dax Shepard?

  Don't hurt me, please.

• 1:16:10Speaker 01

  Or I look scared and angry.

• 1:16:13Speaker 01

  That's just my reaction.

• 1:16:15Dax Shepard?

  But then you let it, you let it in.

• 1:16:17Speaker 01

  But then they say like, I'm listening or I listen or I'm not, whatever. And then I.

• 1:16:22Dax Shepard?

  I stopped listening.

• 1:16:25Speaker 01

  I don't like it anymore. What happened?

• 1:16:27Dax Shepard?

  He yelled up.

• 1:16:28Speaker 01

  Should have never done video. Yeah, recently a guy did that. He honked. And then he, I looked over with a mean face and then he pointed, he, he was listening at that moment. He like raised the volume.

• 1:16:42Dax Shepard?

  Oh, great.

• 1:16:43Speaker 01

  That was exciting, but I'm also sorry.

• 1:16:45Dax Shepard?

  You just, when you just pointed, it looked like he was pointing at his crotch, but it was obvious. It was the.

• 1:16:50Speaker 01

  An armchair would never do that.

• 1:16:52Dax Shepard?

  I know he won it, but I'm saying. It was clear that he was pointing to his stereo.

• 1:16:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:58Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great. Cause when you just did it, it wasn't clear.

• 1:17:01Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:17:02Dax Shepard?

  All right.

• 1:17:03Speaker 01

  Okay, anyway, so go on.

• 1:17:04Dax Shepard?

  Lombard Street. Lombard Street, Chinatown.

• 1:17:08Speaker 01

  Little Italy, Alcatraz.

• 1:17:12Dax Shepard?

  That fucking trolley made us so happy. The cable car. Cause that's really.

• 1:17:17Speaker 01

  Classic.

• 1:17:18Dax Shepard?

  I just said the cable car. The cable car.

• 1:17:20Speaker 01

  I didn't, it didn't read.

• 1:17:22Dax Shepard?

  You know, I just think it's not, there's a cable running under the street.

• 1:17:25Speaker 01

  It is.

• 1:17:26Dax Shepard?

  That they put in in 1870.

• 1:17:28Speaker 01

  Still going.

• 1:17:29Dax Shepard?

  Going in a circle. Also had some great meals.

• 1:17:32Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 1:17:33Dax Shepard?

  Really great meals.

• 1:17:35Speaker 01

  San Francisco has great cuisine.

• 1:17:37Dax Shepard?

  Oh my goodness. In fact, one of these places, if you're there, I insist you go called Cavalier. It's done up. It's a bar restaurant tavern and it's done as an English hunting lodge. And the decor was, decor really works for me.

• 1:17:50Speaker 01

  For everyone. There's a reason aesthetics are important. I guess I should admit something really gross.

• 1:17:58Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Distasteful?

• 1:18:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, just bad. But since we are honest here.

• 1:18:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:05Speaker 01

  When you, when you started your back check about wanting to say thank you.

• 1:18:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:11Speaker 01

  Uh, I thought you were saying thank you to me.

• 1:18:14Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I can thank you as well.

• 1:18:17Speaker 01

  Because I thought where the story was going was that.

• 1:18:22Dax Shepard?

  It's so much easier together.

• 1:18:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I mean, that's true. That's totally true. I should have said that. Now I'm sad I didn't say that.

• 1:18:29Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:18:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I always walk out with you.

• 1:18:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:32Dax Shepard?

  So to two, I mean, if we eat a big turd together, it'll be together.

• 1:18:35Speaker 01

  Right. I thought maybe that's what was coming. And then I thought, oh, it's not, maybe it's a different thank you. Also to me because.

• 1:18:46Dax Shepard?

  Cause what, cause what was the second reason? I'll probably agree with it too.

• 1:18:50Speaker 01

  Because, um, cause you were gone and you, as you said, you took your sweet sister.

• 1:18:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:57Speaker 01

  Who, who runs this household.

• 1:18:59Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh, yeah.

• 1:19:00Speaker 01

  Keeps it in check.

• 1:19:01Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:19:01Speaker 01

  And Kristen was at a table read.

• 1:19:06Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 1:19:06Speaker 01

  Yesterday. I don't know if I wanted to say that, but. Came out. Yeah, it's been announced.

• 1:19:11Dax Shepard?

  For the show?

• 1:19:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, season two.

• 1:19:14Dax Shepard?

  A bill inquired about it.

• 1:19:16Speaker 01

  Cause he's a dad.

• 1:19:17Dax Shepard?

  He's a dad. I tried to explain that to him and then he didn't understand that why that's why he liked it.

• 1:19:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's hard to explain that to people. But anyway, he, so she was at Tiberius. She was at Fox. She was far away and Anna was with her.

• 1:19:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:30Speaker 01

  And Lincoln had a tummy ache.

• 1:19:32Dax Shepard?

  Oh, no. So do you have to rescue her?

• 1:19:35Speaker 01

  So I went to pick her up.

• 1:19:36Dax Shepard?

  Was that your first time at that school?

• 1:19:37Speaker 01

  Yes, and.

• 1:19:38Dax Shepard?

  Isn't it beautiful?

• 1:19:39Speaker 01

  First of all, it's beautiful. We won't say what it is, even though you probably already have on here.

• 1:19:44Dax Shepard?

  I haven't.

• 1:19:45Speaker 01

  It's, it's beautiful. But I was lost.

• 1:19:49Dax Shepard?

  Yep.

• 1:19:50Speaker 01

  There's, it's like big.

• 1:19:51Dax Shepard?

  It's like a mini UCLA.

• 1:19:53Speaker 01

  There's a campus. And I was lost and I kept having to ask like teens.

• 1:19:59Dax Shepard?

  But they're so confident. So what my, I think the first thing is you're like, wow, there's a really pretty campus. That quickly pales in comparison to how palpable the confidence is of all those gals running around.

• 1:20:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:11Dax Shepard?

  They're, they're on, they're living out loud.

• 1:20:13Speaker 01

  But yeah, so I kept having to ask all these teens. One teen really was like, the middle school's over there. Like she was mad at me. And I was like, I'm cool. Like I have a podcast. Do you listen to podcasts? I must have stopped three different people and I could not figure it out. But I, I eventually.

• 1:20:32Dax Shepard?

  I never got her.

• 1:20:34Speaker 01

  She's still there.

• 1:20:35Dax Shepard?

  Did she get home?

• 1:20:36Speaker 01

  And then she picked me up or.

• 1:20:39Dax Shepard?

  She grabbed, swung by on her motorcycle and grabbed me because I was lost.

• 1:20:44Speaker 01

  But it was so cute. And she said, oh, I thought you would be in San Francisco or wherever. I thought you'd, I thought you'd be with dad. And I said, oh, no, it's just dad. He was, she was like, he, he kicked you out?

• 1:20:59Speaker 01

  And I said, no, that's not really how it works.

• 1:21:02Dax Shepard?

  No benefit of the doubt. Yeah. She went straight to I kicked you out.

• 1:21:05Speaker 01

  She did. I said, yeah, you should punch him. I didn't want to tell her that her appendix might explode and that's what was maybe going on.

• 1:21:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, sure. That was your first though.

• 1:21:14Speaker 01

  That was my instinct. So I stuck around in case it didn't explode.

• 1:21:18Dax Shepard?

  It didn't.

• 1:21:18Speaker 01

  It didn't.

• 1:21:19Dax Shepard?

  She have a poop and then feel better.

• 1:21:21Speaker 01

  I didn't ask.

• 1:21:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I'll find out tonight. My first question.

• 1:21:25Speaker 01

  Involved about the poops.

• 1:21:26Dax Shepard?

  Did you get that thing out?

• 1:21:29Dax Shepard?

  Do you get it? I have one really special moment before the show. They said, we want to do a viral video with them. And I was like, of course. So we played this game.

• 1:21:38Speaker 01

  Heads up.

• 1:21:38Dax Shepard?

  And then what's funny is it was Tess on things from the book. But they put in Catcher in the Rye, which wasn't in the book.

• 1:21:48Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:21:49Dax Shepard?

  But he said something and then I got it. I was, it was on my head.

• 1:21:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:53Dax Shepard?

  And um, he goes, was that in the book? And I go, I don't think that was in the book. Is that one of your favorite books? And he goes, oh, yeah. And I go, oh, it's my absolute favorite book. And then we're like, we talked for two seconds and I go, is that why you named your daughter Phoebe? And he goes, yeah.

• 1:22:11Speaker 01

  Oh, cute.

• 1:22:12Dax Shepard?

  I, from the second I read that book, I was like, if I have a daughter, it's going to be Phoebe. And it felt very connected. I really liked it. I had had the same exact.

• 1:22:23Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:22:24Dax Shepard?

  Katams and I had that bonding moment too. I think a handful of men have named their daughters Phoebe because they fell in love with that character.

• 1:22:31Speaker 01

  You know, you didn't do that, right?

• 1:22:32Dax Shepard?

  Is that not my firstborn's name?

• 1:22:34Speaker 01

  So sorry to tell you.

• 1:22:36Dax Shepard?

  Maybe.

• 1:22:37Speaker 01

  So sorry.

• 1:22:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Well, that's because we thought we were having a boy, if you recall.

• 1:22:41Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:22:42Dax Shepard?

  Now.

• 1:22:42Speaker 01

  You know, you have another.

• 1:22:43Dax Shepard?

  Delta could have ended up being a Phoebe.

• 1:22:46Speaker 01

  She would have been such a good Phoebe.

• 1:22:49Dax Shepard?

  Yes, she would have.

• 1:22:50Speaker 01

  That name really would have worked for her.

• 1:22:53Dax Shepard?

  It would. Although Delta really works pretty good for her too. Yeah.

• 1:22:57Speaker 01

  I can't ima- yeah. Maybe if I have one, I'll name it Phoebe.

• 1:23:00Dax Shepard?

  That's a ding ding ding. People have been pointing out in the comments that my new over indexing is Delta.

• 1:23:06Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:23:07Dax Shepard?

  Which is a hundred percent true.

• 1:23:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:09Dax Shepard?

  Not Delta, my daughter.

• 1:23:11Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:23:11Dax Shepard?

  The distance between two things.

• 1:23:13Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:23:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. When I talk about, I'll say Delta and people are really noticing it and I, guilty as charged.

• 1:23:22Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:23:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. I love it. It's very, it's very efficient.

• 1:23:26Speaker 01

  It is.

• 1:23:27Dax Shepard?

  Instead of saying the difference between or a gap between.

• 1:23:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, actually, yeah, I guess you do do.

• 1:23:32Dax Shepard?

  I do it a lot. Yeah. I really got it from Formula One. They, they, they use Delta a lot in Formula One. What did you do while I was gone? Other than get lost.

• 1:23:46Speaker 01

  There's just something about being at school.

• 1:23:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:49Speaker 01

  I like it. I went to In-N-Out this weekend.

• 1:23:53Dax Shepard?

  You did?

• 1:23:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:54Dax Shepard?

  You got animal style fries and a, and a what?

• 1:23:57Speaker 01

  And I got, um, no, I got.

• 1:24:00Dax Shepard?

  I'm gonna blow my nose.

• 1:24:01Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:24:01Dax Shepard?

  Sorry.

• 1:24:02Speaker 01

  That's okay. Have you blown today?

• 1:24:05Dax Shepard?

  Lost some progress.

• 1:24:06Speaker 01

  Oh, all right.

• 1:24:07Dax Shepard?

  It's hasn't returned to the insanity, but it's also.

• 1:24:13Speaker 01

  Did you slip up on your trip?

• 1:24:15Dax Shepard?

  Um, with blowing?

• 1:24:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:17Dax Shepard?

  Probably. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:24:20Speaker 01

  Hotel room.

• 1:24:21Dax Shepard?

  Well, I bring tissues over to the bed every night to have them ready. And then when they're there, then I kind of gotta use them, but I can't risk that I will make it without blowing my nose and have to get up. It's, there's a lot of stuff to consider.

• 1:24:35Speaker 01

  I know. Did anything else interesting happen? Oh, my God, Super Bowl.

• 1:24:39Dax Shepard?

  Oh, duh. That would be crazy. What was your favorite commercial?

• 1:24:45Speaker 01

  The Nike women's commercial.

• 1:24:47Dax Shepard?

  That was awesome. Playing Led Zeppelin.

• 1:24:49Speaker 01

  Oh, I bought the shirt.

• 1:24:50Dax Shepard?

  Oh, God. That was very cool commercial. That was probably the best. But man, I love Willem Dafoe.

• 1:24:57Speaker 01

  I do. I do too.

• 1:24:59Dax Shepard?

  I mean.

• 1:25:00Speaker 01

  With Catherine O'Hara.

• 1:25:01Dax Shepard?

  I know.

• 1:25:02Speaker 01

  That was a good pairing.

• 1:25:03Dax Shepard?

  But he's just.

• 1:25:04Speaker 01

  Friend of the pod. Go check out his episode.

• 1:25:06Dax Shepard?

  He's so unique. What a gift he is.

• 1:25:08Speaker 01

  He is. Love him.

• 1:25:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I loved that.

• 1:25:12Speaker 01

  He's a blessing.

• 1:25:13Dax Shepard?

  He is.

• 1:25:13Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, that was good.

• 1:25:15Dax Shepard?

  He's like N L S Anderson movie, even if he's in a commercial.

• 1:25:18Speaker 01

  That was great. I couldn't hear all of them.

• 1:25:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I didn't see most of them. I started it an hour and a half late.

• 1:25:25Speaker 01

  Oh, you did?

• 1:25:26Dax Shepard?

  I did.

• 1:25:26Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:25:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And then fast forwarded through everything to catch up.

• 1:25:30Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:25:32Dax Shepard?

  Not needing to catch up as it turned out, because nothing changed.

• 1:25:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the only thing I cared about really.

• 1:25:40Speaker 01

  Really delivered, which was the halftime show.

• 1:25:43Dax Shepard?

  Oh, the halftime.

• 1:25:44Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:25:46Dax Shepard?

  I loved it, but I definitely thought his mic was too low. I was having the hardest time hearing him like the first four songs.

• 1:25:53Speaker 01

  Well, we couldn't hear, but it was.

• 1:25:56Dax Shepard?

  It was a bad mix.

• 1:25:57Speaker 01

  It was the TV. No, because when I watched it on YouTube, I could hear everything.

• 1:26:00Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really?

• 1:26:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, you should watch it on YouTube.

• 1:26:02Dax Shepard?

  I wonder if on YouTube they clean that up.

• 1:26:04Speaker 01

  Oh, maybe.

• 1:26:04Dax Shepard?

  But on the broadcast, I was like, his vocals need to be way up. Just barely hearing the words.

• 1:26:11Speaker 01

  On YouTube.

• 1:26:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:12Speaker 01

  I thought it was so good and so well done and so smart as he is. All of those things. I don't know. I just thought it was so powerful. I loved it. And there's all these like, I love hidden things.

• 1:26:28Dax Shepard?

  Okay, what were some of the, the?

• 1:26:31Speaker 01

  I love clues.

• 1:26:32Dax Shepard?

  What was in there?

• 1:26:34Speaker 01

  Well, did you realize you probably, these probably aren't clues. They're probably obvious, but it was a PlayStation because the whole thing is like game, the game. He's like playing this game with Drake.

• 1:26:46Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:26:47Speaker 01

  Also, when Samuel L. Jackson is out there, it's kind of.

• 1:26:50Dax Shepard?

  I thought he was incredible.

• 1:26:53Speaker 01

  Uncle Sam.

• 1:26:54Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my God, he was so incredible. That's, that's a hard lift. He's got to pop in and out. Perfect timing.

• 1:26:59Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:27:00Dax Shepard?

  Finished before he's got to start. That was complicated.

• 1:27:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:03Dax Shepard?

  And he was great.

• 1:27:03Speaker 01

  He was perfect. But yeah.

• 1:27:05Dax Shepard?

  He was almost more Kendall Lamar than Kendrick Lamar.

• 1:27:08Speaker 01

  No, don't say that.

• 1:27:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. No.

• 1:27:10Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, no.

• 1:27:11Dax Shepard?

  Sam Jackson's like the original Kendrick Lamar.

• 1:27:13Speaker 01

  Well.

• 1:27:14Dax Shepard?

  I'm sure that's why he was there.

• 1:27:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, he of course is iconic, but.

• 1:27:19Dax Shepard?

  They have the same vibe and spirit.

• 1:27:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:22Speaker 01

  But the, just the message.

• 1:27:25Dax Shepard?

  No tap dancing.

• 1:27:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:27:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:28Speaker 01

  Exactly. We're not playing this game. Yeah, that was great. Serena.

• 1:27:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:33Speaker 01

  I didn't, you didn't see that? You have to rewatch.

• 1:27:36Dax Shepard?

  Serena.

• 1:27:37Speaker 01

  Williams.

• 1:27:38Dax Shepard?

  She sang?

• 1:27:38Speaker 01

  She came out and was crip dancing.

• 1:27:40Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I didn't see that.

• 1:27:42Speaker 01

  You got, you.

• 1:27:43Dax Shepard?

  I thought you were saying the female singer was Serena.

• 1:27:45Speaker 01

  No, that's SZA. She's huge.

• 1:27:47Dax Shepard?

  I was like, I don't think, I think you got close, but I don't think it's Serena.

• 1:27:50Speaker 01

  I know what I'm talking about.

• 1:27:52Dax Shepard?

  You know, you know more than I do, for sure.

• 1:27:55Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:27:56Dax Shepard?

  I didn't see Serena.

• 1:27:57Speaker 01

  You definitely need to rewatch. It's.

• 1:28:01Dax Shepard?

  I had it very loud and I got, um, I got goosebumps many times, several times.

• 1:28:07Speaker 01

  When it's the American flag and he's standing in the middle of it and they're all, all of the dancers in the arrangement are black.

• 1:28:15Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:28:16Speaker 01

  Just so powerful.

• 1:28:17Dax Shepard?

  Really powerful.

• 1:28:19Speaker 01

  It really was. I love him. I, he, I want him to come on this show so badly.

• 1:28:27Dax Shepard?

  Yes, me too. I had to get brought up to speed by Tim Lovestad.

• 1:28:31Speaker 01

  About the beef?

• 1:28:32Dax Shepard?

  About the beef.

• 1:28:33Speaker 01

  I, I tried, I told you a little bit about the beef.

• 1:28:36Dax Shepard?

  I know about the pedophile part.

• 1:28:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:38Dax Shepard?

  Uh, I know about the lawsuits.

• 1:28:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:40Dax Shepard?

  I didn't know that he called Drake a colonizer. I didn't know that.

• 1:28:44Speaker 01

  That's in the song, yeah.

• 1:28:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And that Drake had called him, accused him of making slave music. Did you know that part?

• 1:28:51Speaker 01

  No, but I know Drake. So I guess there was this huge like.

• 1:28:54Dax Shepard?

  And Drake is rich, I heard.

• 1:28:56Speaker 01

  Drake is.

• 1:28:57Dax Shepard?

  Drake was like, grew up rich, I heard.

• 1:28:59Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. He's from Canada. You know, you know, Drake is.

• 1:29:06Dax Shepard?

  I have zero opinion on Drake. I just want to say that out loud. I have zero feelings.

• 1:29:10Speaker 01

  I have zero feelings about Drake, except apparently, and there's a daily on this.

• 1:29:16Dax Shepard?

  Well, there is. Okay.

• 1:29:17Speaker 01

  Um, Drake likes these beefs. Like he starts them. It's part of.

• 1:29:22Dax Shepard?

  They're good for business.

• 1:29:23Speaker 01

  Sure. Yeah. But this one really got out from under him. Uh huh. And Kendrick isn't really ever the type to get involved in these types of things. He's kind of like, which Drake also calls out.

• 1:29:36Dax Shepard?

  He's involved with.

• 1:29:37Speaker 01

  You think you're so.

• 1:29:38Dax Shepard?

  Few beefs.

• 1:29:39Speaker 01

  Kendrick?

• 1:29:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. He's also in a beef with, um, Andrew Schultz.

• 1:29:43Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:29:46Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:29:47Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:29:48Dax Shepard?

  And Andrew did not at all kowtow. He just went straight to war with them.

• 1:29:53Speaker 01

  What, what is that beef?

• 1:29:55Dax Shepard?

  Um, you'll, we'll have to watch all the videos. He has a line about, don't let a white comedian make fun of our women or something. And then so, and it's believed that he's referencing Andrew and Andrew then comes out and says, he's just not terribly worried about Kendrick and, oh, you, then he, his, his attack back is like, oh, here's the dude you've supported who have raped women and who have beaten women. I don't think I'm your dude. So that was his pushback and. Yeah, got saucy.

• 1:30:30Speaker 01

  Well.

• 1:30:30Dax Shepard?

  I thought, boy, Andrew, you're pissing off.

• 1:30:33Speaker 01

  That's so stupid of him.

• 1:30:35Dax Shepard?

  Very, very diehard fan base. But, uh, yeah, he's got at least those two going. But back to Drake.

• 1:30:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay. But in the hip hop world.

• 1:30:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:45Speaker 01

  He doesn't really do this because he kind of is, Drake says it too. Like you put your, you think you're so great. You think you're this like poet.

• 1:30:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:30:55Speaker 01

  Which he is.

• 1:30:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:56Speaker 01

  Anywho, Drake is rich and very popular and like, you know, blends, he's not straight up, straight up hip hop.

• 1:31:06Dax Shepard?

  Oh, right.

• 1:31:07Speaker 01

  More poppy mixed with hip hop.

• 1:31:10Dax Shepard?

  Exactly. Club music.

• 1:31:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. So people think he's a phony.

• 1:31:13Dax Shepard?

  I found myself with that tension of loving a good fuck you song and then knowing a better part of myself doesn't like this.

• 1:31:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, me too. But in this case, I don't care.

• 1:31:26Dax Shepard?

  I'm like, oh yeah, I'm getting charged up by this.

• 1:31:28Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:31:29Dax Shepard?

  And obviously that's not my aim in life is to like be pumped when someone else is telling another person to fuck off.

• 1:31:35Speaker 01

  Me either.

• 1:31:35Dax Shepard?

  Effectively.

• 1:31:36Speaker 01

  Well, the pro, okay, I agree.

• 1:31:38Dax Shepard?

  Unless there's a huge class distinction, of course, then I do enjoy it. But regardless.

• 1:31:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. I am with you. I don't like enjoy.

• 1:31:48Dax Shepard?

  A beef.

• 1:31:48Speaker 01

  diss track or a beef. I've never, I've never been into a beef before.

• 1:31:52Dax Shepard?

  Right. This is your first beef.

• 1:31:53Speaker 01

  This is my first, my first foray into beefs.

• 1:31:56Dax Shepard?

  The world of beefs.

• 1:31:57Speaker 01

  But now that I listen to the daily and I know how much, so it was like this big weekend, I guess, where they were like back and forth. They were, they kept putting out songs in retaliation to one another. At the end, in the audience, after the halftime show, it says game over.

• 1:32:14Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:32:15Speaker 01

  Because he won.

• 1:32:16Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:32:17Speaker 01

  And you know, he did win that song that his diss track won five Grammys.

• 1:32:22Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:32:23Speaker 01

  Like, is sorry, I feel bad. I actually do feel kind of bad for Drake, but he did start it.

• 1:32:30Dax Shepard?

  I don't even know.

• 1:32:31Speaker 01

  He started it according to the daily.

• 1:32:33Dax Shepard?

  Okay, all right. I'm nervous. I don't want to be on either side of it.

• 1:32:36Speaker 01

  Why?

• 1:32:39Dax Shepard?

  Because I don't, I don't ever want to, I don't want to join a team when the half the other people hate the team. I don't, I don't want to be on. A team that's hated by half of people.

• 1:32:50Dax Shepard?

  It's not my desire in life.

• 1:32:52Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:32:53Dax Shepard?

  If I cared deeply about this feud between Drake and Kendrick.

• 1:32:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:00Dax Shepard?

  I might, but I don't care at all. These are both very rich, talented dudes. I don't think there's an oppressed version.

• 1:33:07Speaker 01

  Well, I think, yeah. I mean, they did come from very different backgrounds. Like, I don't, it'd be like you who came from a certain background. You probably feel like you have more of an entitlement to talk about that and rap.

• 1:33:24Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 1:33:24Speaker 01

  About that than somebody who didn't experience it.

• 1:33:28Dax Shepard?

  Mm hmm. But again, I don't even know enough about Drake. Is he rapping about the hood?

• 1:33:31Speaker 01

  He raps about bling.

• 1:33:33Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Oh, since we're talking about pop culture, which we rarely do, and I tend to, for whatever reason, be allergic to. Um, did you know the Kanye thing?

• 1:33:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:33:45Dax Shepard?

  So step one was arriving at the Grammys uninvited with the wife who was then naked.

• 1:33:50Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:33:51Dax Shepard?

  Okay, that was event number one.

• 1:33:52Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:33:52Dax Shepard?

  And then he had a, he paid for his own Super Bowl commercial. Yes.

• 1:33:57Speaker 01

  Which directed people to go to his website.

• 1:34:00Dax Shepard?

  Easy dot com.

• 1:34:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:02Dax Shepard?

  And if you went to easy dot com, there was a single item for sale.

• 1:34:05Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:34:06Dax Shepard?

  And it was a shirt with a swastika on it.

• 1:34:08Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:34:09Dax Shepard?

  I mean, this is, is absolutely mad as conceivable.

• 1:34:15Speaker 01

  This is horrible.

• 1:34:15Dax Shepard?

  Dying to know.

• 1:34:17Speaker 01

  It's so bad.

• 1:34:18Dax Shepard?

  I'm dying to hear his thought process. I'm just dying to understand.

• 1:34:24Speaker 01

  He says it.

• 1:34:25Dax Shepard?

  Himself to a point where he paid for a Super Bowl commercial.

• 1:34:28Speaker 01

  Jewish people. He says it. It's not, we don't have to read through the lines. The fact that that's not illegal. I don't, like, I don't, although now I guess there's talk about the NFL maybe suing him because when he did the commercial, that wasn't up. He had real items on his site until the next day he changed it.

• 1:34:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:52Speaker 01

  So I guess there is some conversation about him being sued for that, but I. I don't, it's

• 1:34:59Dax Shepard?

  What I wanna know.

• 1:35:00Speaker 01

  Embarrassing.

• 1:35:02Dax Shepard?

  What I wanna know, to be clear, is the same thing I wanted to talk to Roseanne about. He knows this is a very damaging move.

• 1:35:12Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:35:12Dax Shepard?

  It's like a

• 1:35:13Speaker 01

  I don't know what.

• 1:35:13Dax Shepard?

  It's like passing a point of no return.

• 1:35:16Speaker 01

  It's been like that, though. He keeps doing stuff like this.

• 1:35:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I mean, they're escalating in severity. He wasn't previously, to my knowledge, selling swastika shirts.

• 1:35:25Speaker 01

  No, but he was, he was saying openly, he hates Jewish people and

• 1:35:30Dax Shepard?

  He's like, um, he's getting close to being a neo-Nazi.

• 1:35:33Speaker 01

  Close.

• 1:35:33Dax Shepard?

  Neo, okay, right.

• 1:35:34Speaker 01

  He is a hundred percent.

• 1:35:36Dax Shepard?

  He's a black neo-Nazi.

• 1:35:37Speaker 01

  Yes, he is.

• 1:35:38Dax Shepard?

  Now, how does a rational, at one time seemingly savvy and rational person end up here? Uh, other than just the obvious bipolar.

• 1:35:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, he is, he's bipolar. But yes, as I was reading something today, like that's, that for people who are like, well, he's just, he's bipolar, which he is.

• 1:35:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:58Speaker 01

  Ninety-five percent of bipolar people don't, aren't hate-filled. They're not using it to hurt people and

• 1:36:06Dax Shepard?

  And if you found out Hitler was bipolar, you wouldn't go like, oh.

• 1:36:09Speaker 01

  That makes sense. Yeah.

• 1:36:11Dax Shepard?

  I have a whole theory I'm not entitled to have about Roseanne, which is I think the racism aside, it was racist. I acknowledge it. But that's just one of many historic things she has done. At the height of her popularity, to really alienate everyone and test whether they love her.

• 1:36:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:33Dax Shepard?

  Like the, the famous, um,

• 1:36:36Speaker 01

  Well, that's you, that, that's you deciding and test what, like, that's you being very introspective and saying you think it's because deep down, she's testing whether.

• 1:36:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I think like, um, when she sang the National Anthem intentionally poorly.

• 1:36:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:50Dax Shepard?

  And annoyingly, and she pissed everyone off. And it's like, the patriotism flared up and she's brilliant. So.

• 1:36:58Dax Shepard?

  She's too smart to not know that wasn't a good move. So then I wonder what story is she confirming by doing this thing? Like, well, how could she as smart as she was convince herself that I'm gonna do this? And I think it's this, you don't believe all these people that love you really love you. And then your brain comes up with this bizarre test of that.

• 1:37:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:19Dax Shepard?

  To find out, to confirm you're right, basically. But no one really loves you. They love this fake version of you they see on TV or hear in music. I have to believe that's going on with Kanye?

• 1:37:32Speaker 01

  I don't think so.

• 1:37:33Dax Shepard?

  You don't think so?

• 1:37:33Speaker 01

  I, I, I appreciate that you really give people, and I don't think you're giving him the benefit of the doubt, but like, I think.

• 1:37:44Dax Shepard?

  I think a bunch of things have gone terribly wrong in this life, that he's the author of, no question.

• 1:37:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's, he creates chaos.

• 1:37:52Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:37:52Speaker 01

  And I think you and probably many people feel like there's a empathetic reason behind that.

• 1:38:04Dax Shepard?

  Well, I just think there's a reason other than that Kanye West was born evil, and now we're seeing it, and he hid it for 40 years.

• 1:38:11Speaker 01

  But do you think, and, but you don't think anyone's born evil, and I don't either, but I think people become, I do think there are a, there are people in this world who become irredeemable. They become so, so driven to chaos and destruction and, um.

• 1:38:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and I'm not making an argument that he should be redeemed.

• 1:38:33Speaker 01

  No, I would hope, yeah, no.

• 1:38:35Dax Shepard?

  I'm not making an argument that people who have committed crimes should not go sit in prison, but I am working with an assumption that something happened to them that now resulted in this, I think there are serial killers, and I think there's narcissists, and I think there's sociopaths who enjoy, and there's, there are sadists who like to hurt things. I know those people exist.

• 1:38:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:58Dax Shepard?

  But, um, I think a lot of non-mental pathology people do really weird stuff that I'm quite curious why they would ruin their lives this, in this way. Like, this is a person who's ruined their life.

• 1:39:14Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, but over and over, like, it's not.

• 1:39:18Speaker 01

  Keeps doing it. He keeps causing harm.

• 1:39:21Dax Shepard?

  Does it seem like a tragedy to you? Cause it seems like a tragedy to me.

• 1:39:25Speaker 01

  It seems like a waste to me, but I don't, I don't think of it as a tragedy. I think what he's doing to people, I think, causing this kind of fear and instability and across the board, even when he like goes up and steals a thing from Taylor, it's all, it's all, it's mean. It's bad. I'm also of the belief that a lot of that type specifically thrives off oxygen. And so I don't like, I don't really want to give him any ever. Like I, I think he's disgusting and I, I, I don't want to talk about him really.

• 1:40:06Speaker 01

  I mean, this is a fine conversation, but you know, everyone's of course, like posting about it. And there was another shirt made in retaliation, which I think is awesome. That is what he wants. He wants chaos. He wants a reaction. He wants people to be scared and be angry and I'm, I don't want to play.

• 1:40:28Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:40:29Speaker 01

  Like, bye, just go away.

• 1:40:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:35Speaker 05

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

• 1:40:41Dax Shepard?

  We get support from Superhuman. Look, I love what I do. The conversations, the ideas, the creative stuff, but there's this whole other layer of work that eats my day alive. The inbox that never ends. Docs I need to get through, threads I'm behind on. And by the time I've dealt with all that, the stuff I actually want to focus on gets whatever's left. What I needed was something that just works where I'm already working. Not another tab to open, not another thing to set up. Superhuman Go, from the makers of Grammarly, is different. It's already right there. Inside your email, your docs, your browser. You don't go to it. It's already working alongside you. You're deep in a long thread, highlight it and it pulls the key points.

• 1:41:23Dax Shepard?

  About to send something important? It flags what doesn't add up before it leaves your hands. It knows. Your style, your workflows, and it just backs you up without getting in the way. A thought partner that's already up to speed at your service, not after your job. So do yourself a favor and try Superhuman Go from the makers of Grammarly. Find out more at superhuman.com.

• 1:41:52Dax Shepard?

  Do you think he's sold any?

• 1:41:54Speaker 01

  I don't know. Well, it's gone now.

• 1:41:57Dax Shepard?

  Oh, it is?

• 1:41:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, Shopify took it down.

• 1:41:59Dax Shepard?

  Okay, let's just say it's a historic public meltdown for the ages. I mean, this is one of the most bizarre things.

• 1:42:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's it's not that bizarre because it's been such a lot. He's been escalating to this for so long.

• 1:42:16Dax Shepard?

  I mean, there was a period where he was just writing incredible music.

• 1:42:19Speaker 01

  A long time ago.

• 1:42:20Dax Shepard?

  Came up with some of the greatest Jay-Z songs with him. Like, there was some period where he was just a volcano of incredible creativity.

• 1:42:27Speaker 01

  He was, but we also don't know who he was back then.

• 1:42:30Dax Shepard?

  Like, no, when I watched the doc about him before he got really crazy. What I saw is a guy who had some very deep social challenges his whole. I think he's very atypical as a person.

• 1:42:48Speaker 01

  I think so, too.

• 1:42:49Dax Shepard?

  You know what part of the problem is, I can admit? I so can't relate to hating Jewish people. It seems like the dumbest thing to me.

• 1:42:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:58Dax Shepard?

  And so it's so cuckoo that I wonder, how does one get themselves there?

• 1:43:05Speaker 01

  I hear you, and that's me, too. I'm like, I don't even understand this.

• 1:43:09Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:43:10Speaker 01

  But 6 million of them were killed because someone didn't like them.

• 1:43:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:43:15Speaker 01

  One person who created such a massive revolution that like 6 million of them were killed. So it's it sounds cuckoo, and then that is also reality we're living in.

• 1:43:29Dax Shepard?

  Huge history of it, even before they killed them, they weren't allowed to. Participate in most of the economy.

• 1:43:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:37Dax Shepard?

  Like, they've been very poorly treated for hundreds and hundreds of years.

• 1:43:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's an underestimation of making a group the scapegoat of a problem.

• 1:43:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:49Speaker 01

  And how really bad that can get.

• 1:43:52Dax Shepard?

  When you have poor white people living in the same city with poor black people and poor Latinos, I, we see the lack of resources in the competition that's definitely going to file into these. It's kind of quite predictable. Like, it's a bunch of people in scarcity blaming one another for their scarcity. Makes a lot of sense. I'm not even sure where you're interacting in that circle. Like, you're not thinking Jewish people have taken your jobs. You're not thinking, like, all these other things that perpetuate that kind of inner-city poor stereotyping and racism.

• 1:44:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:29Dax Shepard?

  It's just like, they're not going to jail a lot. There's nothing, I'm not even sure, they're, you know.

• 1:44:34Speaker 01

  They control the media, they, there's, there's narratives. I mean, they're ridiculous, but there are narratives that get built about. That's why I'm so allergic to any stereotype, whether it's good or bad, because you don't know.

• 1:44:46Dax Shepard?

  But the good ones.

• 1:44:47Speaker 01

  No, because it's a, as soon as you start doing massive generalizations.

• 1:44:53Dax Shepard?

  Indians have really great hair.

• 1:44:55Speaker 01

  No, only me.

• 1:44:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's just, it's, it is. I've, I mean, I've been not really paying on purpose too much attention to what has been going on in the world. It does feel a little irresponsible. Like, I'm trying to figure out the line of complete ignoring and keeping my sanity.

• 1:45:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:20Speaker 01

  I haven't really found it yet, so I'm, I'm sort of not partaking at all. But yeah, things make your way to you, and it is scary. I mean, it's just, the, well, that, and then to circle back to a little bit is, oh, my God, it's so crazy, he put this T-shirt up. It's not that crazy because.

• 1:45:42Speaker 01

  Permission has been granted by our most elite in charge to say whatever the fuck you want to say, to do whatever the fuck you want to do. Elon is doing a hail Hitler. That was at our United States inauguration. So, you know, I'm just saying like, it's not out of nowhere that someone crazy like that is gonna feel like, well, now's the time I can put my T-shirt up. Um, okay. Well, speaking of stereotypes.

• 1:46:13Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:14Speaker 01

  Walton.

• 1:46:15Dax Shepard?

  Oh, Walton Goggins.

• 1:46:17Speaker 01

  Shout out to Georgia Southern, a school near where I grew up.

• 1:46:22Dax Shepard?

  How far?

• 1:46:23Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:46:24Dax Shepard?

  60 miles?

• 1:46:26Speaker 01

  Oh, you know, I don't know about miles.

• 1:46:27Dax Shepard?

  Probably further because Atlanta is really in the middle. So if it's called Southern, I gotta, it's gotta be closer to Florida now.

• 1:46:34Speaker 01

  No, no, it's in.

• 1:46:35Dax Shepard?

  It's in the Georgia, uh, the Atlanta area?

• 1:46:38Speaker 01

  Well, it's in Georgia.

• 1:46:39Dax Shepard?

  Right. But is it in Southern Georgia?

• 1:46:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:42Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Closer to Florida.

• 1:46:44Speaker 01

  I guess.

• 1:46:45Dax Shepard?

  I would imagine.

• 1:46:45Speaker 01

  I guess I, I've never thought of it as closer to Florida, but yeah.

• 1:46:49Dax Shepard?

  It's to the south of you.

• 1:46:50Speaker 01

  Let's find out how far it is from my parents' house.

• 1:46:52Dax Shepard?

  Great.

• 1:46:53Speaker 01

  I'm gonna use maps for that.

• 1:46:54Dax Shepard?

  Okay, good.

• 1:46:55Speaker 01

  Okay. It's three hours and 28 minutes.

• 1:46:58Dax Shepard?

  Okay. So from more than 60 miles. 150, 160?

• 1:47:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, um, 231 miles.

• 1:47:07Dax Shepard?

  Whoa, that's very far.

• 1:47:09Speaker 01

  Wow, from my parents.

• 1:47:11Dax Shepard?

  From your parents. So it must really be on that border.

• 1:47:14Speaker 01

  It's, it's here. It's here. And that's Savannah on the coast there.

• 1:47:19Dax Shepard?

  Okay. So it's a bit east and south from Atlanta. But yeah, it's pretty close to Jacksonville.

• 1:47:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, not too far.

• 1:47:27Dax Shepard?

  Not too bad.

• 1:47:28Speaker 01

  Not too far.

• 1:47:29Dax Shepard?

  You could be there for a lunch appointment if you had to.

• 1:47:31Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:47:32Dax Shepard?

  Get some fresh oranges.

• 1:47:35Speaker 01

  I had a lot of friends who went there.

• 1:47:37Dax Shepard?

  Did you guys, you guys would drive to Disney World, obviously, right? You were very close.

• 1:47:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, we would.

• 1:47:41Dax Shepard?

  Or about six hours. Okay. The speed your father drove.

• 1:47:45Speaker 01

  It was eight hours.

• 1:47:46Dax Shepard?

  I could do it in five.

• 1:47:47Speaker 01

  Let me put it in.

• 1:47:52Speaker 01

  Disney World. Six hours, 55 minutes.

• 1:47:56Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:47:57Speaker 01

  472 miles.

• 1:47:59Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:48:04Dax Shepard?

  I'm sure you guys had to stop. I know what it's like.

• 1:48:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, we had to stop.

• 1:48:07Dax Shepard?

  We couldn't go more than 60 damn miles this summer in Europe.

• 1:48:10Speaker 01

  Okay, Tortuga, yes, Spanish word for turtle.

• 1:48:13Dax Shepard?

  Well, it's a great word.

• 1:48:15Speaker 01

  It is. His earliest memories are in Decatur. My mom worked at Decatur Federal Bank. That was one of her first jobs.

• 1:48:24Dax Shepard?

  Okay, how long she serve? I thank her for her service too.

• 1:48:28Speaker 01

  Me too. I don't know.

• 1:48:30Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:48:31Speaker 01

  Okay, an annulment.

• 1:48:33Dax Shepard?

  Yes, how does an annulment work?

• 1:48:34Speaker 01

  Okay, an annulment is a legal ruling that ends a marriage by declaring it invalid. It makes the marriage null and void as if it never happened. Here are the criteria. Fraud, if one spouse tricked the other into marriage.

• 1:48:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:49Speaker 01

  Coercion, if one spouse was forced into the marriage.

• 1:48:53Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:48:54Speaker 01

  Mental incapacity, that's really bad.

• 1:48:57Dax Shepard?

  Hard to prove.

• 1:48:58Speaker 01

  Ding ding ding. Kanye's wife.

• 1:49:01Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:49:02Speaker 01

  They could get an annulment. If one spouse was not mentally capable of marrying. Physical inability, if one spouse is unable to consummate the marriage.

• 1:49:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:11Speaker 01

  This is interesting.

• 1:49:13Dax Shepard?

  You were against this and I was for this.

• 1:49:15Speaker 01

  I know, I'm against it.

• 1:49:17Dax Shepard?

  Because you can't, if someone marries you.

• 1:49:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:21Dax Shepard?

  And they can't perform sex with you, you needed to say that ahead of time. Cause you can't just surprise someone.

• 1:49:29Speaker 01

  Well, but.

• 1:49:29Dax Shepard?

  And say, guess what, sex won't be a part of this marriage. You can go, well, then that's obviously the understanding was there would be sex.

• 1:49:37Speaker 01

  But what if you are married, you're having sex.

• 1:49:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:41Speaker 01

  And then.

• 1:49:42Dax Shepard?

  It's been consummated.

• 1:49:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, it has been consummated.

• 1:49:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:46Speaker 01

  Oh, is consummate just the first time?

• 1:49:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:49:50Speaker 01

  Oh, so it's not like then in two months.

• 1:49:53Dax Shepard?

  It's like you get married and a year later, you still haven't had sex.

• 1:49:57Speaker 01

  Well, what if you have sex and then you stop being able to? Some men have that issue.

• 1:50:03Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:50:04Speaker 01

  So then can you annul after like a year and a half?

• 1:50:07Dax Shepard?

  It sounds like consummated is a very operative word in this. Yeah. So it sounds like never had sex.

• 1:50:13Speaker 01

  Okay, that's fair.

• 1:50:15Dax Shepard?

  You need to tell someone upfront about that.

• 1:50:18Speaker 01

  What if you don't know? What if you've had sex with other people and then for some reason with this person, you just can't?

• 1:50:24Dax Shepard?

  You should get your marriage annulled and find a partner you can have sex with. That's my suggestion there for both parties.

• 1:50:31Speaker 01

  What about if someone?

• 1:50:32Dax Shepard?

  Fraud, there was fraud. Fraud was listed in the divorce and the annulment with Kenny Chesney.

• 1:50:40Speaker 01

  Renee Zellweger.

• 1:50:41Dax Shepard?

  Renee Zellweger.

• 1:50:42Speaker 01

  But what happened?

• 1:50:43Dax Shepard?

  I know. That's the great curiosity. What was fraudulent about what he was promising?

• 1:50:49Speaker 01

  Or her.

• 1:50:51Dax Shepard?

  I think she cited fraud.

• 1:50:53Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:50:53Dax Shepard?

  If memory serves me.

• 1:50:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:50:55Dax Shepard?

  This has been a very, um.

• 1:50:57Speaker 01

  Gossip.

• 1:50:59Dax Shepard?

  Extra, extra Inside Hollywood edition.

• 1:51:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um incest, if the marriage between people who are too closely related by blood, I agree with that one.

• 1:51:10Dax Shepard?

  Cousins, though?

• 1:51:11Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 1:51:12Dax Shepard?

  Wait, you don't think cousins can get married?

• 1:51:14Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:51:15Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you don't? That one's very Lucy Goosey.

• 1:51:17Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:51:18Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, we had an expert on that had a whole chapter about incest and has gone through the world and it's very rare for a culture to have forbid cousins to get married. It's very common everywhere.

• 1:51:32Speaker 01

  No. Cousins, you mean like second and third and fourth?

• 1:51:37Dax Shepard?

  I don't want to marry any of my cousins.

• 1:51:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:51:40Dax Shepard?

  But I can also imagine never even meeting your cousin.

• 1:51:43Speaker 01

  I haven't met some of mine, but I don't want to marry them.

• 1:51:46Dax Shepard?

  What if you met them in there? You meet them for the first time at 37?

• 1:51:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:50Dax Shepard?

  And they're gorgeous.

• 1:51:51Speaker 01

  Great.

• 1:51:52Dax Shepard?

  Let's get married.

• 1:51:54Speaker 01

  Great. Meet me at the chapel.

• 1:51:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:57Speaker 01

  No, that's so.

• 1:51:59Dax Shepard?

  This is a Jonathan Haidt thing.

• 1:52:00Speaker 01

  Cyclops is.

• 1:52:02Dax Shepard?

  No, so that's a little exaggerated. Not between siblings, but.

• 1:52:07Speaker 01

  It still can, when it's too close, it's not good.

• 1:52:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but it.

• 1:52:11Speaker 01

  That's science.

• 1:52:12Dax Shepard?

  This was a part of the, that.

• 1:52:14Speaker 01

  The book you can't remember?

• 1:52:15Dax Shepard?

  I want to say it might have been Paul Bloom the last time I read his thing. I think it's, it's been a little exaggerated. The genetic risk of cousins. I'm not.

• 1:52:26Dax Shepard?

  I don't want to be with my cousins, but I don't, I don't think I care if other cousins are together.

• 1:52:32Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:52:33Dax Shepard?

  I don't think I do. I have to make myself care. I don't.

• 1:52:38Speaker 01

  I guess, I guess people can do what they want.

• 1:52:41Dax Shepard?

  I mean, it's very common throughout the world.

• 1:52:43Speaker 01

  I see.

• 1:52:44Dax Shepard?

  Someone's preferred.

• 1:52:45Speaker 01

  No, it's not.

• 1:52:46Dax Shepard?

  Preferred.

• 1:52:47Speaker 01

  No, it's not. Okay. Bigamy, if one spouse was already married to someone else, that feels fair. Um, bigamy is the only one we can come together on.

• 1:53:00Dax Shepard?

  You and I?

• 1:53:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:02Dax Shepard?

  Well.

• 1:53:03Speaker 01

  No, mental incapacity, right? And physical.

• 1:53:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, we don't, and coercion.

• 1:53:07Speaker 01

  And coercion.

• 1:53:07Dax Shepard?

  What one don't we is just consummation.

• 1:53:09Speaker 01

  Incest.

• 1:53:10Dax Shepard?

  I, well, cousins.

• 1:53:12Speaker 01

  Consummation, because, oh, consummation is physical. Yeah. I know. I'm on the fence about that.

• 1:53:16Dax Shepard?

  I can't believe you're on the fence about that. Why get married? Be friends.

• 1:53:20Speaker 01

  What if you're in, because love is not just, love is more than sex and friends.

• 1:53:28Dax Shepard?

  Sexual love is romantic love and you get married and then you have friendships that are loving and supportive. You could be roommates. That's great. But entering into the romantic bond of marriage with no attraction to the person or interest in it being sexual with them, I think is a deal breaker. That's a total deal breaker. Now, hold on, I want to be very clear. If you're asexual, I honor that. And you said to the person, I'm asexual. I don't ever want to have sex.

• 1:53:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:57Dax Shepard?

  Great. And that person's like, cool, I don't either. Go crazy.

• 1:54:01Speaker 01

  Right, but no, I.

• 1:54:02Dax Shepard?

  But you really need to declare that. That can't be a surprise.

• 1:54:05Speaker 01

  Okay. I want to pivot this a little bit. You put sexual love and romantic love in the same bucket. You, you call that the same bucket, right?

• 1:54:16Dax Shepard?

  Those are synonymous, yes.

• 1:54:17Speaker 01

  For you, those are synonymous. That's interesting.

• 1:54:19Dax Shepard?

  Oh, is it?

• 1:54:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:21Dax Shepard?

  You think that's novel?

• 1:54:22Speaker 01

  I think there are three buckets. I think there's sexual attraction.

• 1:54:27Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:54:28Speaker 01

  Romantic love and then friendship love.

• 1:54:33Dax Shepard?

  Why would romantic love be different than the sexual one?

• 1:54:36Speaker 01

  Because.

• 1:54:37Dax Shepard?

  Who would you be romantically in love with that you didn't want to have sex with? You would just be in friends, love with them as a friend?

• 1:54:43Speaker 01

  No, like, I think, maybe this is gendered, but I think for a lot of women. Not me, because I'm not married, but I could see this. I could see over time being less sexually attracted. I mean, this happens in every marriage, right?

• 1:55:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:55:02Speaker 01

  Less sexually attracted to your marriage, marriage partner.

• 1:55:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:06Speaker 01

  But you're still romantically in love with them. You love them in a way you don't love your friends.

• 1:55:12Dax Shepard?

  Yes, but you had a sexual relationship that has slowed down as opposed to you were never intending to have a sexual relationship and sex was never going to be a part of this.

• 1:55:22Speaker 01

  I guess I'm just saying to me, those are, they're three buckets. They're not like loving someone romantically or loving a partner.

• 1:55:31Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:55:32Speaker 01

  Apart from sex is a different kind of love and care and, and then a love for a friend. For me, for you, no? This is kind of interesting.

• 1:55:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I think I'm either, uh, I want a romantic love with a woman.

• 1:55:51Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:55:52Dax Shepard?

  Or I want a friendship love with them. I, there's no third bucket for me in considering love. Love, sure, there's people I would love to have sex with that I would not want to hang out with, which is kind of gendered, generally speaking. But, um, yeah, there's no one that I would want a romantic relationship with that I wouldn't want to have sex with. Wouldn't happen.

• 1:56:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:56:16Dax Shepard?

  Then they would just be a friend and I wouldn't marry them.

• 1:56:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:24Dax Shepard?

  You want to marry a friend?

• 1:56:26Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:56:27Dax Shepard?

  And have no sex?

• 1:56:28Speaker 01

  No, I know.

• 1:56:29Dax Shepard?

  And not justify an annulment if they ask for it.

• 1:56:32Speaker 01

  I'd say that. I didn't say that. I just, I, I just think romantic love is different than sexual attraction.

• 1:56:42Speaker 01

  Obviously you want both in your man, in your husband.

• 1:56:46Dax Shepard?

  Like romantic love is wanting to kiss the person's lips.

• 1:56:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's fun.

• 1:56:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that's the same thing as sexual attraction.

• 1:56:56Speaker 01

  But.

• 1:56:57Dax Shepard?

  Those aren't different things to me.

• 1:56:59Speaker 01

  But over time.

• 1:57:00Dax Shepard?

  Like, there's no one I want to kiss really bad, but then don't want to have sex with. If I want to kiss them and I love them.

• 1:57:07Speaker 01

  But, but like over, over time in the man, not to get too personal, but like every time you kiss Kristen, you want to have sex with her? Like, no, like that's a, that it's.

• 1:57:19Dax Shepard?

  No, but I would like to have sex with Kristen.

• 1:57:22Speaker 01

  Well, yeah.

• 1:57:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:25Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:57:25Dax Shepard?

  And if I didn't want to have sex with her, that would be an issue.

• 1:57:29Speaker 01

  But if you didn't want to have sex, let's say like now, after so many years.

• 1:57:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:33Speaker 01

  You stopped really wanting to have sex with her.

• 1:57:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:36Speaker 01

  But you, you would still love her romantically in a way that is different than how you love.

• 1:57:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I just, I think comparing something 20 years out in

• 1:57:45Speaker 01

  Well, that's part.

• 1:57:45Dax Shepard?

  Week one, no one's getting a marriage annulled after 20 years. I'm talking, you marry someone, it is revealed to you, they have no intention to have a sexual relationship with you. I think you're definitely entitled to get out of that marriage.

• 1:57:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I guess I, I agree.

• 1:58:02Dax Shepard?

  It's false advertisement.

• 1:58:04Speaker 01

  Well, also it's on you. Why haven't you, why, why haven't you asked about their sexual appetites before you married them?

• 1:58:11Dax Shepard?

  Well, I think you have said, I can't wait to be married. I can't wait for our first night. I can't, I'm sure.

• 1:58:17Speaker 01

  Fraud.

• 1:58:17Dax Shepard?

  And then the person didn't go, there's not going to be a first night, just so you know. Cause I don't want to have sex with you because I'm not romantically attracted.

• 1:58:25Speaker 01

  What if they want to really bad, but they just can't?

• 1:58:28Dax Shepard?

  Meaning they can't get an erection?

• 1:58:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:30Dax Shepard?

  It, again, if you are not able to ever get an erection and have sex with your wife, then I think your wife's entitled to be with someone who can. I am sorry. It's already a bummer for you. It shouldn't also be a bummer for that person.

• 1:58:44Speaker 01

  Okay, what if a couple was waiting to have sex until they got married?

• 1:58:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:49Speaker 01

  And then they both were really horny. He could get it up.

• 1:58:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:54Speaker 01

  She could get it in.

• 1:58:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:58:56Speaker 01

  And, but then on the night of the wedding. His dick gets cut off by a stranger. Someone comes, a robber comes in and he starts attacking and the robber cuts his dick off and leaves.

• 1:59:10Dax Shepard?

  It's still not fraud because you didn't false advertise.

• 1:59:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:59:14Dax Shepard?

  You just, someone cut your dick off.

• 1:59:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:16Dax Shepard?

  That person, someone cuts my dick off, I'm still going to put a lot of energy into making sure Kristen's still having lots of sexual experiences.

• 1:59:24Speaker 01

  But not sexual intercourse.

• 1:59:26Dax Shepard?

  With my penis? No, because it's gone. It's gone.

• 1:59:28Speaker 01

  That's called consummate.

• 1:59:30Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so it's on the actual day of the wedding. Yeah, I mean, that's quite complicated and I don't know if we have a single case of that ever happening.

• 1:59:38Speaker 01

  Okay, well.

• 1:59:38Dax Shepard?

  But if that happened, that would be up to the gal to decide if she wanted to never have sex the rest of her life.

• 1:59:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:47Dax Shepard?

  Or if she decided she does want to have sex, then what arrangement could they work out where she could still have sex?

• 1:59:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:53Dax Shepard?

  And they could still be married.

• 1:59:54Speaker 01

  Do you think most men would allow her to?

• 1:59:57Dax Shepard?

  No, most men are very jealous and terrified.

• 1:59:59Speaker 01

  I know. That's the thing. They would not allow her to go have sex.

• 2:00:02Dax Shepard?

  I would for sure. I would almost insist on it. I would. She probably might even want to. Yeah, I know. It would probably be a thing.

• 2:00:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:10Dax Shepard?

  Like you cannot, can't go your whole life. It's not your fault that my dick got cut off at the ceremony.

• 2:00:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:00:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:16Speaker 01

  Little did you know, she hired that robber.

• 2:00:18Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my God. Because she was asexual the whole time?

• 2:00:24Speaker 01

  Um, all right.

• 2:00:26Dax Shepard?

  But again, someone asexual is going to be upset. I'm not judging you. I'm not talking about you. Two asexual people want to get married and have a non-sex marriage.

• 2:00:33Speaker 01

  Or an asexual person with a sexual person, if that sexual person decides it's fine.

• 2:00:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, good luck to them.

• 2:00:39Speaker 01

  All right, that's up to them. Everyone gets to make their own.

• 2:00:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but everyone's got to be honest.

• 2:00:44Speaker 01

  Unless it's incest.

• 2:00:45Dax Shepard?

  You just got to be honest.

• 2:00:47Speaker 01

  Everyone has to be honest. Yeah.

• 2:00:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. If you're not honest, I think you're, you should be able to get out of that.

• 2:00:53Speaker 01

  Sure. I, I understand that. I also just think it's stupid. Like, annulment to me isn't less.

• 2:01:01Speaker 01

  Then a divorce. Just get a divorce.

• 2:01:04Dax Shepard?

  Well, but it is in that there's no splitting of communal property. There's it just never happened. There's no much of legal fees. There's no.

• 2:01:12Speaker 01

  But it says the marriage records remain on file.

• 2:01:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but you no longer have to say I was married and divorced because you weren't.

• 2:01:19Speaker 01

  Now that to me is fraudulent. If I married someone and then later and I found out that they had an annulment, they didn't tell me.

• 2:01:28Dax Shepard?

  All I'm saying is you're not a divorcee. Who cares?

• 2:01:32Speaker 01

  To me, it does the same thing. If I married.

• 2:01:34Dax Shepard?

  I mean, yeah, someone should tell somebody if they had an annulment. But I definitely see why if someone coerced you into wedding, you shouldn't have to go get a divorce and have that be your ex husband and all these things. No, I think it should be like it never happened.

• 2:01:50Speaker 01

  Interesting. You're very religious.

• 2:01:52Dax Shepard?

  I am very. In his name we pray. Under his eye.

• 2:01:56Speaker 01

  Under his eye. All right.

• 2:01:58Dax Shepard?

  That was it.

• 2:01:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's.

• 2:02:00Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:02:00Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:02:02Dax Shepard?

  I don't want you to get an annulment, but it's very fun.

• 2:02:05Speaker 01

  Why?

• 2:02:05Dax Shepard?

  Well, just because we just talked about it and there's I'm wondering, you know, like what.

• 2:02:08Speaker 01

  I don't want to have to go through any of these.

• 2:02:10Dax Shepard?

  What avenue are you gonna pursue?

• 2:02:14Speaker 01

  That is so mean.

• 2:02:15Dax Shepard?

  Because you have a you have a menu of options. Like I want this annulled, which one's.

• 2:02:19Speaker 01

  Let's hope it's not incest.

• 2:02:24Speaker 01

  So sad.

• 2:02:25Dax Shepard?

  All right.

• 2:02:26Speaker 01

  All right, bye. Love you.