Mom's Car: Timothy Simons

On this week’s episode of Mom’s Car we welcome actor extraordinaire and Timothy Simons. Tim, Dax, and Best Friend Aaron Weakley talk through the full day of testing he underwent in the 90s to diagnose him with ADHD and how a comorbidity is a heightened sensitivity to injustice. The team hit a two-banger order while Tim discusses seeing behaviors in his kids that are really just reflections of his own, having a contrarian streak in the beginning stages of his career, and finding a backdoor into comedy acting through casting commercials. #sponsored by @Allstate. Go to https://bit.ly/momscar to check Allstate first and see how much you could save on car insurance. Follow Mom's Car on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Mom's Car ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting https://wondery.com/plus now. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Hello and welcome to Mom's Car. Today we have Timothy Simons. Oh my God, what a wonderful and tall human being Timothy is. You probably fell in love with him on Veep as I did. He was also on Handmaid's Tale and let us not forget, Nobody Wants This. Tim is a party, he's honest, and boy, did he teach us a lot about ADHD. Please enjoy Timothy Simons. Checking Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds on car insurance is smart. Unfortunately, not checking that your sunroof is closed before going through the car wash is not smart. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate.

• 0:44Dax Shepard?

  Potential savings vary, subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Allstate North America Insurance Co. and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  I grew up in Maine, central Maine, like woods and lakes rather than ocean.

• 1:14Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:15Speaker 01

  But I was gonna say that when I was growing up, there was like this Shakespeare theater that was in a really amazing building. The actual building is beautiful, the theater is beautiful. So it's kind of a destination for like New York equity actors to come up and do Shakespeare and get out of the city.

• 1:29Dax Shepard?

  What's the other one? There's one in the Berkshires too, is it kind of like that?

• 1:33Speaker 01

  Williamstown?

• 1:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:34Speaker 01

  It's not big like Williamstown.

• 1:36Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:37Speaker 01

  Williamstown, I feel like big names go and do shows. And I think people that are playwrights at Yale will do shows up there. You're like a sort of steadily working equity actor in New York or Boston and you just get to like get out of the city and the pay is kind of shit and you live with other people in the community. But growing up, one of the people that was always in shows there was David Harper.

• 2:00Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really?

• 2:01Speaker 01

  So when I was like 12 years-

• 2:01Dax Shepard?

  Is he from Maine?

• 2:02Speaker 01

  No, he was a New York guy, but he was up there for like four or five summers. So I saw him do a bunch of Moli Air plays and Two Gentlemen of Barone. And I worked at the video store and he would come into the video store and I treated him like I was meeting-

• 2:16Dax Shepard?

  Brando.

• 2:17Speaker 01

  Brando, it's like, oh my god, man, how's it going? And he.

• 2:21Dax Shepard?

  Do you need any secret copies of anything?

• 2:25Speaker 01

  I would like try to do like a cool video story. I mean, I was probably fourteen, fifteen. And I'd be like, I got recommendations for you if you need them. And he was probably like, yeah, man, I kinda know.

• 2:36Dax Shepard?

  I'm an artist.

• 2:37Speaker 01

  I'm an artist. Yeah. But I always kinda love seeing him around.

• 2:42Dax Shepard?

  That's really fun. I imagine it's a small town?

• 2:45Speaker 01

  Very. My hometown was really small. It was like two thousand people. And the town that that theater was in was even smaller. Like, we made fun of it for how small.

• 2:53Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really?

• 2:54Speaker 01

  Their high school, Monmouth Academy, they had literally like ten to twelve people per graduating class.

• 3:01Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow. Wow, that makes dating rough.

• 3:04Speaker 01

  Yes. I was on a basketball team in high school, and it was always the only team that we could beat.

• 3:09Speaker 02

  They didn't have enough players?

• 3:10Speaker 01

  Basically, yes. They were like, we got.

• 3:12Dax Shepard?

  Subs.

• 3:12Speaker 01

  We have the only nine guys that could even possibly do this.

• 3:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. What did your mom and dad do for a living?

• 3:19Speaker 01

  When they first moved to Maine, they actually were two of the founding teachers of the high school that I ended up going to.

• 3:25Dax Shepard?

  Was it a private school?

• 3:26Speaker 01

  No, it was a little public school.

• 3:27Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  And it drew from like four towns. They were like founding members of that school.

• 3:33Dax Shepard?

  What are that? Do you like that?

• 3:34Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 3:36Dax Shepard?

  This is how I drive. It's a good.

• 3:38Speaker 02

  This is why, this is why Karen was like, Dax and I grew up being very aggressive.

• 3:44Dax Shepard?

  Well, we worked for GM.

• 3:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, so we've just been driving like fucking maniacs our entire life. And Karen wasn't too interested in it? Yeah, he doesn't drive.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  I remember when we got a puppy, the dog walker was like, you gotta introduce him to older dogs. The older dogs can roll him. That was the phrase she used. You gotta roll him.

• 4:01Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 4:02Speaker 01

  So that they understand. You were kinda rolling that guy. He's gotta understand.

• 4:06Dax Shepard?

  You're blowing this red light.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 4:07Dax Shepard?

  And I'm letting you know I know you blew this red light. Yeah, I'd fight my instinct to be a sheriff, but it comes out sometimes. I regret that you saw that side of me.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  I kinda like it. I feel like there has to be a little more of that.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  Like, we should all be understanding.

• 4:23Dax Shepard?

  I know, I have this thing, okay, this is really great, because originally I was gonna say, Michigan, we didn't have the camp culture, right? It was a very New York thing, I guess. Additionally, you have agents, I feel like it's very specific to agents. You have agents driving around LA in 911s. And they're five foot five, and they're screaming, "Fuck you!", and cutting people off. And I'm like, you cannot get away with that in Detroit. Someone's pulling you out of your car. You've gotta be able to back that up. And there's something that just feels crazy to me about LA, that that goes on.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:56Dax Shepard?

  And then the same guy yells at the fucking hostess. And he's just a bully, but he does not have the stature to be a bully.

• 5:02Speaker 01

  Cannot back it up.

• 5:03Dax Shepard?

  That really sets me off.

• 5:04Speaker 01

  Can I ask you a quick question?

• 5:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 5:06Speaker 01

  Because I only found this out very recently. And this sounds like a big phrase, but a comorbidity of ADHD is a heightened sense of injustice. Or a heightened sensitivity to injustice, in that way of like, this is an injustice. And so I'm gonna ask, are you an ADHD person?

• 5:24Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so, two things. I interviewed Gabor Maté, who is an expert on ADHD. After the interview, I'm walking him out of the house, just randomly, and he goes, "Have you ever been tested for ADHD?" It's like a intake counselor at a rehab asking if you've ever done the questionnaire for addiction. I was like, "Oh, I think maybe you just evaluated me, and that's your conclusion." And then I had another ADHD expert say that to me as well. But I'm fighting against, it's so popular on Instagram.

• 5:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:55Dax Shepard?

  Like, is your feed just endless, "ADHD people do this"? I saw one the other day, and I was like, "Have multiple drinks." I always have four or five different drinks going. And I'm like, "Oh, yeah." But then I said that out loud, and Monica looked it up, and it's like, "No, it's not really a symptom." So people are like, piling on symptoms. I think it might just be humanness, I don't know.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:13Dax Shepard?

  So, I think I probably am ADHD, but I'm also having a reservation. How about you?

• 6:17Speaker 01

  I am. I was diagnosed when it was still a pretty novel thing. I had to like, go to a children's hospital in Boston. I was never like, an amazing student, but I had fallen off a cliff in the 10th grade, to the point where they were like, "Something larger is going on."

• 6:32Dax Shepard?

  Sure, he's either gotten a substance issue, or closeted homosexuality, or something big is happening.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  And I went to the doctor, and they were like, "You're a closeted homosexual." I'm not ready, I'm not ready to face that yet. So like, what else you got in the hopper?

• 6:48Dax Shepard?

  Two pills that'll distract me until I'm old enough to pursue this. You're a closeted. You have your doctor say that to you with a clipboard. He's got test results. Your labs are in.

• 7:00Speaker 01

  Flipping through the pages and I gotta tell you, your brain lit up. I don't know why we showed you a picture of men in swimsuits, but every lobe was firing.

• 7:10Dax Shepard?

  We rarely see the occipital catch fire the way it did. This will not come as a surprise to you, but you are closeted homosexual.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  That doesn't sound right. I remember it being my local doctors were either unable or maybe didn't have the training to be able to give the diagnosis, which meant my mom, my dad had to like take a day off from work. We drove down to Boston. I had tests all the next day and then we drove back.

• 7:38Dax Shepard?

  Do you remember what the tests were?

• 7:40Speaker 01

  I mean, it was everything from written tests to physical. I do very clearly remember they were like, okay, now you have to hop on one foot for 30 seconds.

• 7:49Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really?

• 7:50Speaker 01

  And then you have to hop on the other foot for 30 seconds. It was like a battery of written, verbal and also physical tests.

• 7:56Dax Shepard?

  Was it a half a day?

• 7:57Speaker 01

  Full day. Like I was in there for probably six hours.

• 7:59Dax Shepard?

  Which sounds like the worst thing for an ADHD person to be stuck. Or was things moving so quick you were stimulated?

• 8:05Speaker 01

  Things were moving fast and also I got to leave school for the day and go to the city. So I was like, I'll fucking hop on one foot all day. I get to like actually see a building that's more than a story.

• 8:16Dax Shepard?

  If I can top over to Bull, what's the Cheers location? Did you go to that? Bull Finch and something?

• 8:23Speaker 01

  Like we probably did Boston Common. They probably pointed it out to me, but they were like, you can't go in there.

• 8:29Dax Shepard?

  You're too ADHD.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:31Dax Shepard?

  You'll fucking drink everything in the house. Comorbidity, we'll just explain it really quick for anyone doesn't know. It's like anytime there's a condition that has a high likelihood that you'll have another. It's a very common overlap. Say the given population has a 5% chance of being narcissistic, right? People with BPD might actually be 30% likely and that would be a comorbidity. Real examples, but that could be a thing like that.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  So it was a friend of mine whose wife, who I was, oh shit, who I actually met. I ended up working at that Shakespeare Theater that David Harbour worked for. But when I was 21, 22. And there was a woman who is now a costume designer out here when she was like 19. It was like her first job. We got to be friends. And we still see them out here. They live out in Northridge. They came over to the house for dinner. They have two kids now. And she is very ADHD. And so he's a great husband. He does all the reading of the ADHD books and then tells her. Sums it up for her.

• 9:31Dax Shepard?

  He's your doctor.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 9:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that's very generous. That's a sweet person.

• 9:35Speaker 01

  And that was one of the things that came up. I really kind of dialed into that when I feel it.

• 9:40Dax Shepard?

  Being justice.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  It has both managed to like calm me down when I am feeling that way. And has also explained a lot of stuff up to this point.

• 9:48Dax Shepard?

  Just being able to look at the feeling you're having going, right? You have an exaggerated sense of this, so just keep that in mind.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  Keep that in mind. And then it also kind of says like, okay, so is this really as big as my head is making it out to be? It makes you just look at it again. And sometimes it is, no, actually, this is a big deal.

• 10:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  But has allowed me to then pull back from things that aren't.

• 10:10Speaker 02

  Does the awareness seem impossible? Or you just are constantly aware now?

• 10:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, like, how long will you be in the emotion of, let's say, rage towards injustice before it clicks? Oh, this is that thing.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  Well, recently, it hasn't been very long. Because I only found this out like less than a month ago.

• 10:25Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 10:26Speaker 01

  And I have noticed a huge shift in how long I stay in that sort of spinning thought. Where it used to like ruin an entire day. Somebody that like ducks under the little barrier at the airport. You know what I mean? And it's like, no, they set up the fucking lanes. I'm using the lanes, but you went under. I would be mad for the whole flight.

• 10:48Dax Shepard?

  You can ruin your vacation.

• 10:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, maybe a week, maybe, yeah.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  And so I have noticed in the last month, while yes, that person should still be executed. For doing that, I'm able to just understand that it's gonna take a while to like pass that law.

• 11:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, well, look, I have that really bad, but it's always interesting also when you have kids. They force you to confront whether this story you have about yourself is real, or if it's just your fucking genetics, right?

• 11:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:15Dax Shepard?

  Do you have that with your kids? So my story was, oh, my dad filed bankruptcy three times. Money was really, really tight, and that's why I'm so frugal and responsible with money. But then, Lincoln, our oldest, she has saved every penny she's ever been given. She's grown up in abundance. And then the little one, look at this, we got one.

• 11:34Speaker 02

  Fucking big one.

• 11:36Dax Shepard?

  In a big ride.

• 11:37Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 11:37Dax Shepard?

  Oh. I was like, should we just sit in front of Rice Barbecue? Cause we've had an inordinate amount of deliveries from Rice and Barbecue.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  It looks like this is a two-banger trip.

• 11:47Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 11:47Speaker 02

  To restaurants.

• 11:48Dax Shepard?

  Oh, oh, oh, oh.

• 11:49Speaker 01

  Salt and Straw is the first?

• 11:51Dax Shepard?

  Is that it? That's ice cream, right?

• 11:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:53Dax Shepard?

  Well, they're doing a full thing. They're doing dessert and maybe a main.

• 11:57Speaker 02

  I hope they got some dry ice in this bag.

• 12:00Dax Shepard?

  So my story about my injustice thing is like, oh, I had stepdads, they were bullies. I'll never stand for bullying, I won't stand for injustice. But I may just genetically be that way.

• 12:10Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 12:10Dax Shepard?

  Cause like ADHD is definitely genetic, right? It's not a nurture situation.

• 12:14Speaker 01

  I don't think so. I definitely noticed, and I guess maybe I wonder, is it genetic or is it nurturing? That like I see behaviors that I don't liken myself in my kids.

• 12:23Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 12:23Speaker 01

  And those get heightened. And sometimes your own like, oh, now I'm mad at my kid, but I'm not really mad at that.

• 12:30Dax Shepard?

  I'm mad at myself.

• 12:31Speaker 01

  I'm mad at myself for like allowing that to continue, and that can be rough.

• 12:35Dax Shepard?

  Yes, I have a very easy time parenting our daughter that's just like Kristen. And she has a very easy time parenting the one just like me. My oldest and I set each other off so much. I hate if a plan is changed, and I really don't like any plans that I didn't come up with. I hate to admit that. So much of it is arrogance. I'm like, I'm just a very inefficient thinker, I don't know where we should stop, right? It's just arrogance. But fuck, she's the same way. And she'll be being very stubborn and inflexible, and I'll be like, just fucking go along with the plan.

• 13:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:07Dax Shepard?

  You got a whole family here, you're not the only person with a vote. It's me, and it's hard.

• 13:12Speaker 01

  It is funny when you're saying that, and you're also like, I'm never gonna take that advice for myself.

• 13:19Dax Shepard?

  And I'm enforcing my plan, which is like. We're a democracy, you know, whatever the fucking thing it is. And Kristen's just like, yeah, I've been dealing with this for 18 years and I'm used to it. I know how to outwit you and outmaneuver you and distract you. And similarly, the little one drives Kristen nuts. And they're the same person. Like Kristen will be actively yelling at her for leaving stuff in the sink, while half the shit in the sink is Kristen's. And I just stay out of it. I'm like, oh my God, this is so funny and ironic. Yeah, the sink is full with both y'all's shit. And Lincoln and I don't ever do that.

• 13:52Speaker 01

  That's so funny. Have you ever checked, did you do a count?

• 13:55Dax Shepard?

  How do you know which ones are hers and which ones are yours? That would be my sarcastic way to bring that up without fully committing to addressing it.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  There are always days where it's like, is this the day that I make the joke?

• 14:07Dax Shepard?

  What's her mood?

• 14:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 14:09Dax Shepard?

  Is this a good day to be a pussy and fucking frame this as a joke?

• 14:14Speaker 01

  Instead of just being direct about it? I will also say like, I know that my fucking moods cause Annie to be like, well, how am I gonna attack Tim's bullshit today?

• 14:24Speaker 02

  Oh, man. The hardest part, especially since we've been out already today, I'm really hungry now. I could fucking kill that whole ice cream section there.

• 14:35Dax Shepard?

  Well, maybe you should just get a little to go.

• 14:37Speaker 02

  That will slow us down.

• 14:38Dax Shepard?

  Or we could run through a drive through.

• 14:39Speaker 02

  No.

• 14:41Dax Shepard?

  Okay, wait, I want to hear Aaron, you're in justice.

• 14:43Speaker 02

  Oh, well, just the whole genetics, it reminded me of, and Tim, I know we don't know each other, but I got sober five and a half years ago. And it was like, thank you, and it was a whole emotional, mental, physical.

• 14:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, to bring up the speed, Aaron had another 16 years at it that I did. And we went the same level of impossible consumption. You can't imagine what he looked like five years ago. He was 100 pounds heavier. He was missing many teeth. His nose didn't work, his eyes didn't work, he was gray. He looked 59. This is a full frame off restoration. This is like Bobby La got in there and got down to the studs. This is the biggest turnaround I've ever seen in sobriety.

• 15:26Speaker 02

  So I had to bring that up just because I really was not aware of a lot of things until I got sober, or I didn't want to be aware of anything. I just wanted to hopefully make it through the day and hopefully not at the same time.

• 15:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, if everything went perfectly, not make it through the day.

• 15:44Speaker 02

  I came out with my son, who's now 18. He was probably six or seven at the time. Came out here to LA. We went to Disney World and we're in Dex's driveway playing catch, me and my kid. And I remember Dex asking him something and he was so shy, my kid, and he's like, and I'm like, Wade, answer him. And I got like angry. I'm so embarrassed to say this. Dex is like, this is what I love. That was you when you were a kid. And I was like, I am a monster. And I was like, that's why I hate my son, because he's me.

• 16:25Speaker 02

  I love him now.

• 16:28Dax Shepard?

  The first time I ever brought Aaron to a weekend at my dad's. And my dad was a car salesman and a huge personality. You look people in the eyes and you shake their hand too hard and you talk.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  First name, last name, every time. Hey, J. H. Felder.

• 16:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, he just left Dale Carnegie an hour before dinner. We were in this booth in Gretna, I'll never forget. And Aaron was so shy as a kid and he whispered something to me and we laughed. And my dad goes, hey, we don't whisper. If you got something to say, he was so aggressive.

• 16:55Speaker 02

  Fucking voice was so loud.

• 16:57Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and I was like, Dad, shut up. He and I were always like this, but yeah. I was like, Aaron, this is the same situation. Remember you didn't want to talk in front of my dad?

• 17:07Speaker 02

  I was like, God, I don't want anyone to be like me.

• 17:10Dax Shepard?

  It's so hard.

• 17:12Speaker 02

  Give me the phone. No, thank you for waiting. We're so busy today with making this money that there's no time to talk.

• 17:21Dax Shepard?

  Do you think it's unethical, I'm taking some work?

• 17:23Speaker 01

  I don't.

• 17:23Dax Shepard?

  I kind of do, but also I don't care because it's for art.

• 17:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:27Dax Shepard?

  Lowercase a. The Superman, in fact, the a is like half the size of the lowercase r.

• 17:33Speaker 01

  Basquiat is looking up from his grave being like, god damn it. Why was an Uber Eats around when I was alive?

• 17:40Dax Shepard?

  Think of the paintings I could have done.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  I could have done some real shit. I've had that idea before. Would it be fun to sign up for Uber, drive around every once in a while? Even in just a way to like get an idea.

• 17:52Dax Shepard?

  That was my first fantasy. Aaron's been driving Uber in Detroit. And he hits me. Me once a week with a fucking insane story. And I'm just jealous of the action. I always say I want to work at 7-Eleven when I'm retired. Just to see shit go down. I love stimulation like that. That's what was my original idea. I was like, nobody's gonna get in a fucking Uber and there's three cameras. And I go, hi, you're on a podcast. Where are you traveling to today? So this was kind of the next best thing. But it has been really, really illuminating. What I've concluded is half of the city is in their house. And the other half of the city is driving things to those people's houses.

• 18:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:26Dax Shepard?

  Every car we're seeing is a delivery person.

• 18:28Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 18:28Dax Shepard?

  Virtually. Okay, so when you got the diagnosis, what year was this?

• 18:32Speaker 01

  Sophomore in high school, 93, 94.

• 18:35Dax Shepard?

  Okay, and were you prescribed Ritalin or Adderall?

• 18:37Speaker 01

  I was prescribed Ritalin.

• 18:39Dax Shepard?

  Okay, and did it have a really positive impact?

• 18:42Speaker 01

  Incredibly positive.

• 18:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I always think like, what the fuck does one do? Like, I'm an addict. And if I had, well, maybe we're concluding I do have ADHD. I couldn't have had that medicine. But it also explains why cocaine was my drug. I fucking love cocaine. I feel perfect on cocaine.

• 18:58Speaker 01

  I'm not a doctor, but that seems to be what someone would call self-medicating.

• 19:03Dax Shepard?

  Right, right.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  Like, I have heard stories of like other ADHD kids walking in and they're like, what is that? And they're like, oh, this is like a 64-ounce Diet Coke. And they're like, you are self-medicating. And like, you're trying to find the same thing that this drug will give you.

• 19:17Dax Shepard?

  Yes, you have no addict-y kind of qualities, right?

• 19:19Speaker 01

  I think I do.

• 19:22Dax Shepard?

  Oh, that's good.

• 19:23Speaker 01

  I do.

• 19:25Dax Shepard?

  You guys are both like, telling you.

• 19:31Speaker 02

  Spray, spray, spray.

• 19:33Speaker 01

  I don't. I don't know what it is. If I'm gonna try to draw the only line that I can, I feel like I've always seen my dad never go too far in any direction. He always would have a drink, but he would never drink a lot.

• 19:50Dax Shepard?

  Annoyingly moderate.

• 19:51Speaker 01

  Annoyingly moderate in that way. I feel like whenever I have gone, I don't like the feeling of being super out of control. So whenever I felt like things were getting toward there, I was like, I feel like I got it. But the first time I ever sports gambled, I was like, oh, this is why people move to Vegas and give everything else up. That part of my brain is in there. And I do think I'm okay at managing it. But I did smoke two packs of cigarettes a day for like 10 years.

• 20:18Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 20:19Speaker 01

  Like, I know it's in there.

• 20:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, we were both very, very.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  Very heavy smokers, Aaron and I. It's fun.

• 20:24Dax Shepard?

  No, yeah, if I read.

• 20:26Speaker 01

  And cool.

• 20:26Dax Shepard?

  Someone sent me an article that they're like on the verge of a vaccine for lung cancer. And I was like, what do we do? Obviously, I'd wait till my kids graduate. But when I'm on a lake house retired and I have a vaccine for lung cancer, am I gonna bang darts?

• 20:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 20:41Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 20:42Dax Shepard?

  But I am willingly forgetting about how much I coughed, how bad my cardio was. My teeth were getting yellow, everything smelled.

• 20:49Speaker 01

  I do over the day that I decided to quit.

• 20:52Dax Shepard?

  How long ago?

• 20:53Speaker 01

  I started when I was in college, when I was like 19, and quit when I was 29. And I had always kinda told myself, I'll quit when I'm 30.

• 21:00Dax Shepard?

  I quit when I was 30 too. That's a good age to quit. Entering a new decade and you're like, are we gonna do another? Cause you know if you enter that decade doing it, another 10 years.

• 21:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, then it's gonna be on 40. The reason I quit was I found my, I walked up one flight of stairs and was out of breath. And I was like, I'm 20, I was like sitting on a couch one time at rest. And I was breathing, I was breathing heavily and I'm like, you're 29 years old. And so that was sort of like the thing, like a little bit of a come to Jesus.

• 21:27Dax Shepard?

  Aaron, I'll tell you, I just coughed all fucking day long. I tried to get the tar out of my lungs from the second I woke up.

• 21:34Speaker 02

  I kinda miss it. I mean, it's like a, no, I miss him coughing. Yeah, it was like a soothing. It made me feel safe. No, he was around.

• 21:43Speaker 01

  Do we all go in?

• 21:44Dax Shepard?

  No, no, just me.

• 21:45Speaker 02

  Nope, just Dex.

• 21:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you have no new ideas other than you'd be charming and funny and already nailed.

• 21:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, show over.

• 21:53Dax Shepard?

  What? Aaron, don't I have two bags?

• 21:54Speaker 02

  No, just.

• 21:55Dax Shepard?

  We're going to two different locales?

• 21:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:56Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 21:57Speaker 01

  Wait, there are two people at this place?

• 21:59Speaker 02

  No, we had two pickups, but we also have two stops.

• 22:02Speaker 01

  This is like a level of executive function that I don't, I think because of the ADHD, it's like two different. Can I just drop both of them off at the, can you run this down the street?

• 22:10Dax Shepard?

  I think a lot of people in this business do that.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  Can you just help me out real quick? I don't know what the fuck I'm doing.

• 22:16Speaker 02

  When I started delivering food, I was in a pizza place called Little Caesar's. Oh, you've heard of it.

• 22:21Speaker 01

  Oh, of course, yeah.

• 22:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, and there's this bazillion in Detroit. There's so many people. I went in there to pick up an order and there was probably 12 other delivery people in there waiting on food. It got so scary. This is in the middle of the hood and there's bulletproof glass between the shit. People are banging on it and we're this and I'm, "Come on, motherfucker!" Kicking this glass and I was like, "Oh my god, dude." We haven't seen any of this, by the way, yet on our ventures here. We probably need to go to a different neighborhood.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't think you're gonna find it much in Silver Lake with all the writers.

• 22:51Speaker 02

  Right. This one girl, I'll never forget it. She's waiting on whatever she's waiting on and she goes, "Give me a fucking breadstick. Whatever the fuck you have is what I'm taking them. That's what they get." And I'm like, "People don't give a fuck."

• 23:05Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 23:07Speaker 02

  So he possibly ordered three large pizzas and got a chicken wing.

• 23:12Speaker 01

  Two breast chicks and a chicken wing.

• 23:16Speaker 02

  She said, "I don't give a fuck what you give me."

• 23:18Speaker 01

  I don't give a fuck.

• 23:19Speaker 02

  That's what they get.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  I feel like the person that ordered gives a fuck.

• 23:23Speaker 02

  Right. That's what they get. Yeah. They should order from another person if they wanted more.

• 23:31Dax Shepard?

  Stay tuned for more Mom's Car. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds on car insurance is smart. Unfortunately, not checking that your phone isn't connected to your car's Bluetooth before having a private conversation is not so smart. Let me tell you, nothing quite prepares you for the moment when you realize your entire carpool just heard every detail of your last doctor's appointment through the car speakers. Talk about an awkward ride. Or how about this one? Checking Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds on car insurance is smart. Unfortunately, not checking that all your windows are closed before going through the car wash is not smart. I learned that lesson the hard way last week.

• 24:13Dax Shepard?

  There's nothing quite like getting an unexpected shower while you're trying to clean your car's interior. At least the kids thought it was hilarious. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary, subject to terms, conditions and availability. Allstate North America Insurance Co. and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. Get almost anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. What do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken parmigiana delivered. A day at the lake? That's a no. A Philly cheesesteak? That's a yes. An afternoon stroll? Sorry, no. A burrito bowl? Happily yes. What about a day of sunshine? Not happening. A box of fine chocolates?

• 24:58Dax Shepard?

  Yes, that's happening. Delivery on its way. Okay, how about some clear skies? Nope. Well, then how about some french fries? Yep. A little escape? No. A delicious bowl of grapes? Yes, yes, that. How about a freshly cut lawn? Can't help you there. But barbecued prawns? Order it and it's on its way. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  I was asking while you were inside, what your relationship was like after you had gotten sober, but he had not?

• 25:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I'm sure he said.

• 25:38Speaker 02

  No, I just barely started, but yeah, tell him.

• 25:41Dax Shepard?

  We stayed close in that anytime I was in Michigan, we would always hang out. But I was always aware he was definitely making a concession to be around me and be as straight as he was when he was around me. We stayed in love, but it limited like we could never go on a vacation together. There's just so many things we couldn't have done together because he would have just been busy hiding everything. But I never said anything, even though of course I was like, I know we both needed to get sober. I didn't say anything until there was a very clear moment where I was like, oh, he's going to be dead in a week. I've got a week or two to say to him, if you want to go to treatment, I'd love to send you. To my complete shock, he said, I'd love to go.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 26:22Dax Shepard?

  The funniest story ever was I had booked him a place in Antigua and of course he needs a passport, which he doesn't have.

• 26:32Dax Shepard?

  And now I'm like, oh my god, he's gotta stay alive for four or five days. Knowing he's going to treatment. For those five days, I was at home going like, I mean, god, is he gonna fucking make it?

• 26:42Speaker 02

  That decision to go in the actual, like, I should have gone that moment.

• 26:47Dax Shepard?

  Not ideal to have a five day window before you go to treatment. You know you're going to treatment.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  You're going in every day to like the fucking passport office.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  Guess what I didn't do for five days? Sleep.

• 26:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 27:00Speaker 02

  I would be like, shit, I never shot dope.

• 27:03Dax Shepard?

  Ah, maybe this is the time to shoot dope.

• 27:09Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so back to the Rillen.

• 27:10Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 27:10Dax Shepard?

  So it worked really, really well.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 27:12Dax Shepard?

  Were you in charge of your prescription or do your parents give it to you? Cause I know I would have ended up doing three and then I would have told them like, I'm out.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  I think this was at a period of time, I would have been between zero and 10 years old when the just say no to drugs Nancy Reagan thing would have been happening.

• 27:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  So there was that general vibe out in the world. And not that there weren't drugs where I grew up, but this like hippie high school that my parents helped start had this thing called Teen Issues Week.

• 27:43Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 27:43Speaker 01

  And Teen Issues Week was, everybody took a week off and they had everything that you can learn about jazz music to, this is like a panel of gay students who are out. It's like the mid 90s, they also had people who had been in jail coming to talk about their experiences. It wasn't necessarily scared straight, it wasn't that, it was just, this is what it is like. And if you have questions about that, I do feel bad that we all really laughed at this, but one former heroin addict came in to do, it was called the Dance of Addiction.

• 28:12Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, that's already a rough title for it.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  I mean, it was an interpretive dance about his experience with addiction.

• 28:21Speaker 02

  An interpretive.

• 28:22Speaker 01

  Done in the round of like a bunch of eighth and ninth graders.

• 28:27Dax Shepard?

  Very well intentioned, but it's

• 28:28Speaker 01

  Very well intentioned, also incredibly insane. I know we were all giggling.

• 28:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  But I think that what that whole week did was give you sort of a long view of your life. Even if I wasn't able to really internalize it, and I think that is all to say that I don't think I was ever going to take more than I was supposed to. I think I was a rule follower in that way because I was so nervous. This is also like AIDS crisis time. Where it was like sex is gonna kill you and drugs are gonna kill you. So I was like, and then when I finally did get into drugs. I was always like, I'm not gonna do any of the heavy shit. I like hallucinogens.

• 29:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, no one's ever died.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  No one's ever died. It's all fine. Even when I was in college, I'm not sure what the statute of limitations on this is, but like definitely if I was like out of money on a Friday, I would sell some of it. On the floor. And then I'd be like, oh, cool. I have a hundred dollars.

• 29:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And did you suffer at all when you didn't have the medication?

• 29:25Speaker 01

  I would feel a little out of control. I was like, I'm annoying everyone around me. I know I'm a lot, but I can really feel that I'm bugging the people that are around me. And that's when I was like, okay, like let's get it back together.

• 29:38Dax Shepard?

  I definitely relate to that feeling. Not the other people. I relate to being the person that's way too much.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  It's a thing. I mean, maybe that's another comorbidity.

• 29:47Dax Shepard?

  It's really hard to govern it because it's very appealing. Until it's not.

• 29:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:52Dax Shepard?

  It's a very fine line to be walking, the kind of loud, provocative.

• 29:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. And like a lot of times people are like, oh my God, this is so great. This guy's so fun. And then that extra 5% they're like, fuck, I just wish this guy wasn't here or I wish he'd be normal for one second.

• 30:08Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 30:10Speaker 01

  But no, even during that, I never crushed and snorted it. I was like, yeah, it's just not for me. I'm fine. Definitely had a positive effect.

• 30:17Dax Shepard?

  And are you still on it?

• 30:18Speaker 01

  I took a long time off, a lot of it having to do with whenever I was 22 or whatever, I was not on my parents' insurance anymore.

• 30:25Dax Shepard?

  And there are a hundred dollars on the street as you found out.

• 30:29Speaker 01

  And so I was like, alright, I'm gonna try to like sort of self-manage this. But both of my kids have ADHD and it presents itself in very different ways. I was like, oh, all the conversations I'm having right now, I know are happening with me. So I actually got back on it like three or four years ago.

• 30:45Dax Shepard?

  And you're much happier, I would assume.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  Much happier and I definitely feel like a little bit more calm and a little bit more able to manage the things that I need to manage, whereas before I'm just like, I just lost this whole day.

• 30:58Dax Shepard?

  What happened?

• 30:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:59Dax Shepard?

  It's interesting too that it manifests different in women than men. Cause like Kristen's pretty certain she has it. And if you read the symptoms for women, it's very interesting. They do it differently. So Kristen didn't present that way to me, but as I've learned about it, I'm like, yeah, I could co-sign on this. And we're probably both that way and probably our oldest is that way. Okay, this is very exciting for me to finally get to ask you this because you are a part of what I think might be an apocryphal story. You came to LA and I want to know the whole version, but at some point you were an assistant to a casting director. Now, is this part of lie? You were reading other people for Veep?

• 31:38Speaker 01

  No.

• 31:38Dax Shepard?

  Is that someone else?

• 31:39Speaker 01

  That might be somebody else, but I can see where these stories would cross over because I was running camera for commercial casting places.

• 31:48Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  And it was that job that led to a job that got me into Allison Jones's office, where I was able to audition for me.

• 31:58Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so yeah, walk me through that. First of all, how old were you when you moved to LA?

• 32:01Speaker 01

  I did that, people would say, in the entirely wrong way. I was 30 when I moved here.

• 32:07Dax Shepard?

  Ideal time.

• 32:08Speaker 01

  Ideal time.

• 32:09Dax Shepard?

  Fresh face.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  Hollywood loves

• 32:14Speaker 01

  is people who are 30 with almost no experience.

• 32:18Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 32:19Speaker 01

  They love that. I had never been to Los Angeles before. I knew when I moved to Chicago that I would go to either coast eventually. And I was just like, fuck it, I'm going to LA. Like if you want to work at a steel mill, you move to Pittsburgh.

• 32:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, right, right, right. In the 70s.

• 32:34Speaker 01

  In the 70s, yeah.

• 32:38Dax Shepard?

  If you want to build cars, move to Detroit in the 70s.

• 32:40Speaker 01

  In the 70s.

• 32:41Dax Shepard?

  Had you done any I O or Second City classes? Was there anything while you were in Chicago?

• 32:46Speaker 01

  I took one Second City class because my agent in Chicago was like, if you don't have Second City on your resume, I can't fucking do anything.

• 32:53Dax Shepard?

  Right. There's nothing to be done.

• 32:55Speaker 01

  And so I begrudgingly took one, and it was very fun. And I don't know if we have this in common, but a little bit of like a contrarian fucker.

• 33:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 33:03Speaker 01

  Thing of being like, oh, you want me to do that? Then I'm not gonna do it. So I did.

• 33:06Dax Shepard?

  You had a good morbidity?

• 33:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, probably.

• 33:10Dax Shepard?

  I just don't want to do anything anyone else is doing.

• 33:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:12Dax Shepard?

  It's such a terrible quality. Aaron and I are the same way. We love punk rock.

• 33:17Speaker 01

  Anything sort of oppositional, I was kind of drawn that way. But when I got out here, I still wanted to like do something. I didn't want to lose being in front of an audience or live theater or anything like that. So I started doing UCB out here.

• 33:30Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 33:30Speaker 01

  When nobody was asking. Started taking classes there.

• 33:33Dax Shepard?

  At thirty?

• 33:34Speaker 01

  At thirty. The first time I ever viewed Los Angeles was like getting off of the Five, driving down Los Feliz Boulevard.

• 33:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 33:40Speaker 01

  We had got married like three weeks previous in a moving van.

• 33:45Dax Shepard?

  God bless your wife.

• 33:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:47Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my God. God bless her.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  Who also had lived in Los Angeles when she was younger for a very short time, or lived in California and kind of didn't like it.

• 33:56Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 33:56Speaker 01

  And it was also 2008 when the financial market so crashed.

• 34:00Dax Shepard?

  Terrifying time.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  So she's a public school teacher. She had gotten a job at a school.

• 34:05Dax Shepard?

  Talk about marrying your mom.

• 34:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:11Dax Shepard?

  Do they have the same name?

• 34:13Speaker 01

  We don't draw too many of these parallels over the course of this drive. But then eventually found a job running these commercial casting sessions. I would get hired, casting director would come in and be like, all right, they pick up the tide, they look at it, they smile like, oh, good product, and then they leave.

• 34:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  And then all day I was directing people to do that.

• 34:29Dax Shepard?

  That's an interesting way to enter this whole thing. I almost think that's a gift.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 34:34Dax Shepard?

  Because I found once I was directing and I was on the other side of the casting process, I was like, shit, I wish I knew all this stuff the whole time I was going. In auditioning.

• 34:42Speaker 01

  Seeing it from that side, usually it's not about you.

• 34:45Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 34:46Speaker 01

  Also then, just kind of all day seeing on camera what read as funnier.

• 34:51Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 34:52Speaker 01

  Than other things. What is the very small thing that that person did that just made it a little bit better? Then that kind of led to a job where I was running these casting sessions. But in this case, it was like, alright, the director wants you to improvise with these kids as they're coming in. And so I started doing that and they just liked the stuff that I was throwing out. And somewhere in the callbacks, the director got up and was like, just go in there and I'm gonna move the camera. He's like, cause I'm writing you into this.

• 35:20Dax Shepard?

  Oh my god.

• 35:21Speaker 01

  And so that was like the first commercial job that I got. And then that led to like a little bit of a run of, oh shit, like I'm actually working in commercials a little bit. Getting insurance, doing all of that. And then that led to this one commercial where I played Abe Lincoln. That a friend of mine from Chicago, I was a bartender at the House of Blues.

• 35:41Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh. Nice. Oh, that's fun. That sounds really fun.

• 35:44Speaker 01

  It was really fun.

• 35:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  His roommate out here was Allison Jones's casting associate. And when I had first moved out, we met, we hung out. He was like, oh yeah, you know, if you ever do something that I can show Allison, let me know.

• 35:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Oh, that's so generous.

• 35:58Speaker 01

  And it was. So he showed her that and she was like, oh, he's funny. Let's call him in. And I went in like three or four times.

• 36:04Dax Shepard?

  Wow.

• 36:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:05Dax Shepard?

  And she's so wonderful, right? We just interviewed her.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  She really is.

• 36:09Dax Shepard?

  Nobody has ever had an eye for talent like her.

• 36:12Speaker 01

  And it kind of feels like everybody that has become big in comedy in the last 15, 20 years, she's the one that's.

• 36:20Dax Shepard?

  She's like the West Coast Lorne Michaels.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 36:23Dax Shepard?

  She's really special. But when you auditioned for Veep, other than the stuff in Chicago, in LA, you'd only done the commercial?

• 36:29Speaker 01

  Only really done commercials. Veep was the first television show.

• 36:32Dax Shepard?

  That's amazing. That's incredible.

• 36:34Speaker 01

  So yeah, there was a little part of me, you know, my agent in Chicago, who was like, you're making the dumbest decision of your life. You're moving out there without a job. You don't know anyone. You've never been there.

• 36:45Dax Shepard?

  You're not good.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  You're not. Been trying to tell.

• 36:49Dax Shepard?

  You measured yourself? Too old, too tall.

• 36:52Speaker 01

  I remember his advice. I was like, hey, do you have any advice on moving to LA? His advice was like, moisturize. I was like, I don't know what to do with that, man. He was like, yeah.

• 37:02Dax Shepard?

  It is a dry climate.

• 37:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a dry climate, moisturize.

• 37:05Dax Shepard?

  Well, this is the point where I filate you and bring you out of the closet. So memorable. I mean, there's like a handful of people I can remember from almost the first scene I saw him and going like, oh my God, this person's fucking hysterical. Watching Veep, I was like, who is this guy? What is he like on the main stage at UCB? Is he a groundling? What's the story? This guy's fucking right out of the gates brilliant. What is it, 8028?

• 37:29Speaker 02

  My money, it's on this right here.

• 37:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, 8024. I'll go up these stairs.

• 37:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, girl. You did it.

• 37:36Dax Shepard?

  We did it.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  Had people been like your Dax Shepard?

• 37:39Speaker 02

  That was our hopes.

• 37:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:40Speaker 02

  But, um, no. 90% of the time it says leave it, leave it at the door. No one wants to fucking talk to their delivery driver. And the few times it has been a handoff, actually, there was one person who looked very confused. You could totally recognize him, but couldn't make sense out of it. And then the last time we went out was with Kristen. So of course there's a handoff and then Dax was like, oh, Kristen's in here too. And they went crazy. But no, most of the time you just leave it at the door.

• 38:09Speaker 01

  You just leave it at the door and they don't even know?

• 38:11Speaker 02

  Sure. No, that's what the disappointment, man. They look at you through the window and wait for you to turn around.

• 38:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, they can't wait for you. What's I relate to? It's like something so embarrassing. I feel like I don't deserve it.

• 38:20Speaker 02

  I'm not, I'm not better than you.

• 38:22Dax Shepard?

  Exactly.

• 38:24Speaker 01

  I thank you very much for the compliment. I will say that while not taking any abilities that I might have out of the equation, I think I found myself in the best possible circumstance for me to contribute in that not having a lot of experience, it being a very like non-traditional show and that we had these like long rehearsal processes. I don't know that I would have been set up for success in a situation that was a little bit more like, okay, this is your first day of shooting. I was learning everything as we went. And like, it's gonna be kind of embarrassing. I didn't know how to read a call sheet. I thought the second A D was my boss. She came by in my fitting and was like, oh, I like your glasses, but they were just my regular glasses.

• 39:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 39:08Speaker 01

  And I was like, do I have to wear my glasses in the show now? But I was in a situation in which before we started filming the pilot, we had like six days of rehearsal in this hotel in Baltimore that we were all staying in. And I was also a part of a group of people who were incredibly supportive. It very much had like an ensemble feel. And so even though, yeah, I was nervous to be in the room with, I'd just gone through U C B, so Matt Walsh is in there.

• 39:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, the godfather.

• 39:36Speaker 01

  And huge Arrested Development fan, Tony Hale's in there. And like Julia Louis-Dreyfus is an icon. Even though I was nervous, especially top down, both Julia and Armando made it a situation where they forgave me for my green moment.

• 39:50Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  And also allowed me to be a contributor. And I don't know that if I had just been like cast on a show and shown up, that I would have ultimately built up the confidence to be able to participate.

• 40:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I have the exact same story. Well, first of all, I think that's generous and I believe you, but also very intimidating. As much as, yes, they did turn out to be so helpful and supportive. Also, it's a big league to step into. So I could see that crushing someone. There's a lot of experience you're stepping into.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  I will also say that I was lucky in that when I was going through the audition process and I didn't really know a lot of arms work. But as I through the audition process, went back to start watching it, I did have some confidence in that I was like, oh, this is exactly the shit that I feel like I'm good at. Not that I know a lot, but I feel like I know this world. Even if it takes me a little while, I feel like I'm in a wheelhouse that I kind of understand.

• 40:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's not abstract to you.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:46Dax Shepard?

  Punk was the same way. I couldn't really act. You couldn't give me a scene. I wouldn't have been that good. But the fact that I got eight episodes of improv-ing, which I could do, led people to believe that I could act and read scenes and stuff. And I remember, and I'm so grateful, because I went from eight years of auditioning, nothing. Then this show Punk'd. I'd just gotten kicked out of The Crownlings as well.

• 41:08Speaker 01

  Really?

• 41:09Dax Shepard?

  Yes, out of The Sunday Company. And so I get this show, and it airs. And of course, I'm like, and now what? It's a very big show, and people know my name, that's really cool. And thank God, this guy Steve Brill, he thought I was so funny on the show. And he was casting without a paddle. And I went and auditioned, and I wasn't very good. And he was like, I know you can do this, and we're gonna get you this. So I'm gonna bring Seth in, who's a great improver, Seth Green. And you guys are just gonna improv your audition. And I'm gonna send that to the head of the studio. She'll have no idea what scenes are real and what aren't.

• 41:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 41:43Dax Shepard?

  And I got to do that. I just got to improv with Seth for a half hour, and he cut together a thing. And had it not been for him, I don't know how I really end up as well. Like, the combination of, yeah, getting to do exactly what I know how to do on Punk's, because you couldn't come in and give me a no?

• 41:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:58Dax Shepard?

  And then this guy Steve Brill, who believed in me so much.

• 42:01Speaker 01

  You're naturally funny. And eventually, like, there is a thing about this industry that I think is cool. You can work with that.

• 42:08Dax Shepard?

  Right, right.

• 42:09Speaker 01

  You get technically better as you go along.

• 42:11Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 42:12Speaker 01

  But like, you can't be technically good and then become funny.

• 42:16Dax Shepard?

  Yes, you're right. There's no learning curve for that, or at least, I don't think.

• 42:20Speaker 01

  I kind of feel like, without a paddle shot in Chicago or in the Midwest, didn't it?

• 42:26Dax Shepard?

  No, New Zealand.

• 42:27Speaker 01

  Oh, it did?

• 42:28Dax Shepard?

  Which, imagine that, eight years of no work, and then my first job is go to New Zealand for four months.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 42:34Dax Shepard?

  Go canoeing, jump off waterfalls, ride fucking ATVs, work with Burt Reynolds. I couldn't.

• 42:40Speaker 01

  He's like, is it gonna get even better than this?

• 42:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 42:46Dax Shepard?

  There's just no way. Like, when I found out they had cast- Burt Reynolds, who's my childhood idol. I was like, I'm gonna die in the middle of this movie or something. This is all too good to be true.

• 42:55Speaker 01

  I feel like I may have auditioned for something in that movie out of Chicago.

• 43:01Dax Shepard?

  Are you sure it wasn't Let's Go to Prison? Cause Let's Go to Prison.

• 43:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was Let's Go to Prison.

• 43:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, cause we shot that there and it did have Keckner was in it, who was I. Oh, there was a lot of Chicago folks, cause Odenkirk directed it. The craziest cast scene in that was Michael Shannon.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:15Speaker 02

  How good was he?

• 43:15Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my God. I mean, I guess it was obvious when I watched him. I just remember thinking, this guy deserves to be in a much better movie.

• 43:25Dax Shepard?

  He truly does, and that was true. He then went on to do like Road to Perdition.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  This is the thing that I kind of love because I have always been somebody who like really loves a community, loves an ensemble. I love the small world nature of the business, even throughout the entire country.

• 43:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 43:42Speaker 01

  And that the day that I moved to Chicago, dropped my bags at the house and they were like, we have tickets to see a show at a Red Orchid, which was one of Michael Shannon's theater companies.

• 43:51Dax Shepard?

  Oh, right.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  He was in it.

• 43:53Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 43:53Speaker 01

  Hangs dong at the end of the play.

• 43:56Dax Shepard?

  Hangs dong.

• 43:56Speaker 01

  Full dick.

• 43:57Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow.

• 43:58Speaker 01

  Big dick. Full dick, small theater.

• 44:00Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, he's a big guy. Did he have a nice hog?

• 44:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, big, yeah, good, like good dick.

• 44:04Speaker 02

  Thick one?

• 44:05Dax Shepard?

  Good stage dick.

• 44:06Speaker 02

  Like his voice.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  And not Timmy, who you could tell he was used to it, cause it wasn't like nervous that it's out there. And then like 45 minutes later, after hanging out at the bar, I was in the backseat of a convertible that Michael Shannon was in the passenger seat of and Michael Shannon's childhood therapist was driving.

• 44:25Dax Shepard?

  Bar, bar.

• 44:26Speaker 02

  That's impossible.

• 44:27Speaker 01

  It's like, that is like, we were like going to a bar or a house party. Just somewhere in Chicago and it is my first night in town.

• 44:38Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah.

• 44:38Speaker 01

  And that is like that thing that I love about the small world versions of this. Just because I went and saw a play when I was a kid, I got to see David Harbour. And just because I showed up in Chicago one day, I met Michael Shannon.

• 44:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Okay, so here's a question for you.

• 44:51Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 44:52Dax Shepard?

  Veep in my mind was a very big show. How does the reaction to that compare to Nobody Wants This? Chris has never been in anything other than Frozen that would compare to the level of viewership and attention and cultural phenomenon that you had to like give a new. Value to them, are they the same?

• 45:11Speaker 01

  When I go to the airport, I will be recognized previously once. Right after the show came out, I was going back and forth. I was working on a job in Vancouver, right? When Nobody Wants This came out. And I got recognized. People stopped me to say hi, minimum 10 times.

• 45:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  And even there was one time where like the Canadian TSA agent, she looked at my passport, looked at me and went, "This is the guy from the show I was just..." Literally, she had just told him to watch the show.

• 45:43Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 45:44Speaker 01

  I don't think it really compares, like in actual numbers. This is a brand new experience.

• 45:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, well, I've been with Kristen for 18 years and she's obviously very famous. But the last time we were in New York, which is generally a city where people won't stop you. Literally, every third person on the street shit their pants. And I go, "Hon, you're fucking too famous to be out in New York." This is crazy. We can't get anywhere.

• 46:09Speaker 01

  The show is amazing.

• 46:10Dax Shepard?

  We can't stand in line to get popcorn.

• 46:11Speaker 01

  So many people have seen the show and they've responded to it. And I'm so thankful for that. It is also like you are constantly reminded that whatever tier you're on, there are subsections of that tier. And it is people very confidently getting your name wrong. And you're like, oh. At the fucking after SAGS party, I had a full three-minute conversation with someone who thought I was the guy from Baby Reindeer.

• 46:40Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my God.

• 46:41Speaker 01

  And in the first 10 seconds.

• 46:43Dax Shepard?

  That's a bad mix-up.

• 46:44Speaker 01

  And also, I don't have an English accent.

• 46:46Dax Shepard?

  No, you're not Scottish. He's a normal height.

• 46:49Speaker 01

  I mean, I guess I had a beard at the time, but very physically different people, different accents. But the first thing was a selfie. And then it was a conversation about how much the show meant to her. And she was really looking forward to the things that I do next.

• 47:03Dax Shepard?

  And you're rightly assuming she's talking about Nobody Wants This.

• 47:06Speaker 01

  No, within the first 15 seconds, I knew that she was talking about Baby Reindeer. But I was just like, I just can't pull the rug out from under this person.

• 47:15Dax Shepard?

  Right. You don't want to ruin their experience.

• 47:17Speaker 01

  And also, I felt like it would make them feel embarrassed.

• 47:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. What if you swapped to a Scottish accent mid-conversation?

• 47:25Speaker 01

  In that situation, do you think you do that? Do you let it ride?

• 47:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. They'll say they love Garden State. Can I get a picture for sure? And Zach has done the same a bunch of times with me. Do you remember how popular that face swapping app was?

• 47:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 47:41Dax Shepard?

  It was all the rage and we happened to be somewhere together and we did it. And I can tell you, it's a mind meldy photo. Whose face went on whose?

• 47:51Speaker 01

  I'm kind of like putting a judgment on myself. Is that like a good behavior? Is that codependency? That I can't hurt somebody? Or is this a kindness that I didn't embarrass her in that moment?

• 48:01Dax Shepard?

  I think the latter, because I think from your own selfish point of view, it's much easier to just do the thing than to sit there and explain. And then have, oh yeah, we look alike.

• 48:11Speaker 02

  You're being very humble, but I think by doing it.

• 48:13Dax Shepard?

  Now you gotta explain, no, I'm on a show. You kind of have got to give your resume.

• 48:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:17Dax Shepard?

  Which is kind of humiliating. It's just the whole thing would be easier and everyone would be happy. It's a very utilitarian outcome, I think. It's like maximum happiness for both people involved. I think that's the ethical thing to do.

• 48:28Speaker 01

  I'm not saying this about the guy from Baby Reindeer, because I do think he's an odd-looking guy, but I think he's a good-looking guy.

• 48:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 48:34Speaker 01

  Have you ever had this happen to you? I have learned to never tell another actor that they look like another actor. The amount of times that I have been told I look like somebody, if I don't know them, I look them up and I'm like, oh, that person looks like a fucking melted candle.

• 48:47Dax Shepard?

  You're always bummed.

• 48:48Speaker 01

  You're always bummed.

• 48:49Dax Shepard?

  You can have a simultaneous terrible opinion of how you look and feel better-looking than other people. I don't understand it, because I have a very low opinion of how I look. But anytime I'm told I look a person, I'm like, Jesus, it's that bad?

• 49:01Speaker 01

  Man, one time, there were like a bunch of people, and I'm not on Twitter anymore, there were like a bunch of people being like, there should be a biopic about the guy who played like one of the bad underlings in the Superman movies.

• 49:13Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 49:14Speaker 01

  You know who I'm talking about?

• 49:15Dax Shepard?

  He's floating in the prism at the beginning?

• 49:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 49:18Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 49:18Speaker 01

  Like that guy, and I was like...

• 49:19Dax Shepard?

  Who kind of looks like Justin Theroux. But Justin Theroux is gorgeous. Oh, no, that's the other guy. One guy has a beard. I know exactly who you're talking about.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  Yes, and it's like, oh, okay.

• 49:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 49:30Speaker 01

  God, I hope that guy's dead and doesn't listen to this.

• 49:33Dax Shepard?

  Look, it's universal. I have a fucking friend. I shouldn't say fucking. I adore this friend. Aaron and I are both friends with him. And he's like, oh my God. If I get fucking told I look like Zac Efron one more time. And I go boo hoo, oh my god, I would fucking. Oh, my child.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  Look at that.

• 49:53Dax Shepard?

  I love this child. Hi, child.

• 49:57Speaker 01

  Mom's car.

• 49:58Dax Shepard?

  Hi, we're just finishing an episode. Tim from Mom's Show.

• 50:04Speaker 01

  From No More Choices, hi. Oh, I got a little jump.

• 50:09Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 50:09Dax Shepard?

  Yes. Okay, love you.

• 50:13Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I've never seen her walking over to school. That's so fucking adorable. Tim, this was a party. You're such a good guy.

• 50:21Speaker 01

  I'm like so glad this worked out.

• 50:22Dax Shepard?

  It's fun, right? To drive around the car and shoot the shit?