Shaquille O'Neal

Shaquille O'Neal (Shaq's Scholars Campus Scholarship and Mentorship Program) is a 4x NBA champion, sports analyst, and philanthropist. Shaquille joins the Armchair Expert to discuss discovering his love languages, how he learned to tame his inner bully with silliness, and why a nuclear physicist is who taught him how to accept criticism. Shaq and Dax talk about the incredible highs that followed the lows of his life, how he unwinds now by going to a hookah bar, and navigating the fine line between pain relief and addiction. Shaquille explains how beating Michael Jordan was a teaching moment, learning early on to appreciate the people that make you who you are, and the impetus for partnering with Campus.edu was advice he received to invest in things that change people’s lives. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ http://www.wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by the miniature mouse from Duluth.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 0:07Dax Shepard?

  We're in a foreign location.

• 0:09Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 0:10Dax Shepard?

  And I want to thank, from the bottom of my heart, Dr. Mike. He's not only gorgeous, he's generous.

• 0:16Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 0:16Dax Shepard?

  He's kind, he's smart, and this is his studio.

• 0:19Speaker 01

  He's got it all.

• 0:20Dax Shepard?

  And we needed a place to record in New York and he was so gracious in offering us this. So thank you.

• 0:25Speaker 01

  And it's a beautiful studio.

• 0:27Dax Shepard?

  It's a beautiful studio, very, very nice, well-appointed. I had a nice espresso while we interviewed our guest. And our guest, speaking of which, is our biggest guest of all time.

• 0:38Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 0:39Dax Shepard?

  At seven foot one.

• 0:40Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 0:41Dax Shepard?

  Shaquille O'Neal. Oh my God, Shaquille O'Neal, four-time NBA champion, first-round draft pick, multiple MVP, one of only three or four players that ever got MVP in the season, the playoffs, and the All-Star Game.

• 0:55Speaker 01

  Just one of the best to do it.

• 0:56Dax Shepard?

  He is the most dominant. And he has, he's an investor in this really kind of incredible new venture called Campus, which gets folks who traditionally would not have gone to college, makes it incredibly easy for them, helps them get funding, it's awesome. And that's what we're here to talk about. And if you would like to apply for one of the many Shaq scholarships that are being given out, go to shackscholars.campus.edu. That's shackscholars.campus.edu. Please enjoy the most effervescent NBA player of all time, Shaquille O'Neal. We get support from Quince.

• 1:40Speaker 01

  Okay, can we talk about the fact that the holidays are already here? It's crazy. I feel like I blinked and now we're in gifting season, which I'm not really mad about because I do love giving gifts. And Quince is making it so easy to find something great for everyone on my list, including myself, because let's be honest, self-gifting is a love language.

• 1:59Dax Shepard?

  Quince is seriously the gift that keeps on giving. Their high-quality staples are made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, 14-karat gold, and Italian leather. Full-on luxury quality at prices that won't wreck your holiday budget.

• 2:15Speaker 01

  It's the dream. The cashmere sweater is starting at $60. Down jackets, wool outerwear, cashmere accessories. You and everyone on your list are staying cozy and looking incredible all season long.

• 2:26Dax Shepard?

  Well, I'm gonna tell you this, it just got chilly for the first time this year in California, and I'm so excited, and I'm wearing my Quince cashmere right now.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  It's great.

• 2:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and I am going to gift this to some of my friends. I hope they're not listening.

• 2:38Speaker 01

  Quince is also more than clothing. They've got fine jewelry for your significant other, leather bags for your bestie, hotel-quality bedding to set up your guest rooms, chef-grade cookware. That's an amazing thing they offer here, and it's such a good gift because people don't like buying cookware for themselves, but it's very important. And they also have five-star luggage, another good gift that people don't like buying for themselves.

• 3:01Dax Shepard?

  Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Armchair Expert. It's the best way to support the show. This episode is supported by Helix.

• 3:25Speaker 01

  Okay, can we talk about how November is basically survival mode? Between the holidays, the travel, the hosting, the cooking, the everything. Sleep is the one thing keeping me from completely unraveling.

• 3:36Dax Shepard?

  It really is the foundation, and I think people underestimate how much a bad mattress is quietly ruining their day. You wake up stiff, your back's angry, you're already behind before your feet hit the floor.

• 3:47Speaker 01

  That was me before Helix. I took their sleep quiz, which is so fast. It took me like two minutes, and they matched me to a mattress that actually fits how I sleep. Not a guess, not a firm or soft coin flip, it's a real match. I have a midnight mattress, and I really like it. I was noticing it because I actually had to sleep in one of my other beds recently.

• 4:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 4:06Speaker 01

  That doesn't have a Helix mattress on it, and I really could tell a big Difference in my sleep.

• 4:10Dax Shepard?

  Temperature was all over the map.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  It was a mess. I need a new one.

• 4:13Dax Shepard?

  Look, they've got over 20 mattress models. So whether you sleep hot, need extra back support, or you've got a partner who moves around all night, there's one built for you. Plus free shipping and a 365 night happy with Helix guarantee. That's a full year to decide.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  Helix has been named the most awarded mattress by Forbes, Wired and more. So it's not just us being enthusiastic. The experts agree.

• 4:34Dax Shepard?

  Right now, Helix is running their Black Friday sale with up to 30% off. Go to helixsleep.com/armchair for up to 30% off your Helix mattress. That's helixsleep.com/armchair for up to 30% off your Helix mattress. Helixsleep.com/armchair.

• 5:10Speaker 02

  You look like a lawyer.

• 5:11Speaker 01

  Me?

• 5:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, you look very, very smart.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  I take that as a compliment.

• 5:14Dax Shepard?

  She's extremely intelligent, Shaq.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  I do like to argue as well, so I could have been a lawyer.

• 5:20Dax Shepard?

  Very argumentative.

• 5:22Speaker 02

  What do you argue about?

• 5:23Speaker 01

  We argue about anything. You can throw anything at us and we'll probably have a different opinion on it.

• 5:28Dax Shepard?

  Is this guy blue?

• 5:29Speaker 01

  Who knows? How can we possibly know?

• 5:32Dax Shepard?

  Okay, you wouldn't remember meeting me. First of all, you used to live across the street from Tom Arnold.

• 5:36Speaker 02

  I did.

• 5:37Dax Shepard?

  And I used to go over to his house. And I think you had just gotten one of those like three wheeler spider type fucking motorcycle deals.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  That was you.

• 5:45Dax Shepard?

  That was me, baby. And then, that's not the good one. The good one was, we were walking to the Village Bruin Westwood to a movie premiere. And I'm behind you on a sidewalk. And I've only met you once in Tom Arnold's driveway. And this is a huge swing. You're in front of me and I say to you, "Hey, I'm the biggest person at these things. You gotta go home or something," making a joke. And you turned around and at that time you recognized me. And you picked me up like a little tiny baby, like under my armpits. And you lifted me off the ground. I almost said "we." I was like, oh my God, I haven't felt like this in 30 years. I'm a baby.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  That's so funny. You never get to feel like a baby.

• 6:22Dax Shepard?

  I rewatched.

• 6:24Dax Shepard?

  The doc, I've been trying to get you for like three years because the Shaq doc on HBO is one of my favorites I've ever seen.

• 6:31Speaker 02

  You've been trying to get me how long? It's called DM.

• 6:34Dax Shepard?

  Fuck, I didn't even think to DM you. You're reading the DMs, I would have got to you?

• 6:38Speaker 02

  Yes, I know.

• 6:38Dax Shepard?

  Fuck, okay.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, we've tried all the other routes.

• 6:41Dax Shepard?

  Good tip.

• 6:41Speaker 02

  No.

• 6:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so I've just been wanting to do this for three years. I thought that turned out so good. Did you like that?

• 6:47Speaker 02

  I never watched it.

• 6:48Dax Shepard?

  Tell me why.

• 6:49Speaker 02

  Never washed myself.

• 6:51Dax Shepard?

  Ever?

• 6:52Speaker 02

  Accidentally, I may see myself, but I don't shoot something and then let me see it.

• 6:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 6:57Speaker 02

  Edit it this way. Never been that person. You know, when you're taught by army drill sergeant, never to rest on your laurels, never to be satisfied. Once I finish a project, I'm on to the next because I know that one day, projects may not be there. So I'm happy to just keep it moving. I mean, I always say to myself as motivation, I'm 53. In seven summers, will I still be shooting 20, 30 commercials in a row? Who knows? So while I have this opportunity to continue to work, I just like working because one day, and you know, it happens to all of us. We get older. One day they may say, you know, you're too old. We want to move younger and may have to retire, retire. So I just like working.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  What scares you about retiring?

• 7:41Speaker 02

  Well, I want to say I'm scared, just to live the wonderful life, but seven summers, I'll be 60. I just can remember 18, 20, 25, 30.

• 7:50Dax Shepard?

  Like, I gotta do something on that summer. So if I wait to 75 to have my summer and I can't do anything, I can't go on a jet ski or something.

• 7:57Speaker 02

  Exactly. So I'm just trying to, I was looking a little bit like Charles Barkley. So I'm starting to really take the anti-aging thing seriously, really starting to get in shape. I see a 4.8 pack, so I'm gonna try to get up to an eight pack by the end of the summer. I usually work and then take the summer off and just do whatever, but. You know, I have to change my routine. Trying to get my championship mental focus back was really out of shape. And I started having some health problems and now I'm starting to get back on track.

• 8:26Dax Shepard?

  I'm shocked you didn't watch the doc though, because if I were you, I would have watched it because you were pretty honest. Not pretty, you were really, really honest and open and definitely we got some stuff from you that we hadn't seen prior to that. And I think I would have been like, I need to see how that turned out. I was pretty vulnerable in that. I was pretty honest. How did that look?

• 8:47Speaker 02

  Man, I've always tried to be honest with people. People always ask me, you endorse so many products. It's not that I endorse so many products. I endorse products that I believe in. If I don't believe in a product, I can't get in front of the camera and sell it to you. It's unethical. It's just not right.

• 9:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you were offered Wheaties, right?

• 9:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 9:04Dax Shepard?

  And you're like, I never fucked with Wheaties. I'm never gonna fuck with Wheaties. Oh, wow. I'm a Frosted Flakes guy.

• 9:10Speaker 02

  Frosted Flakes and then Fruit Loops.

• 9:13Dax Shepard?

  We intersected at fruity pebbles. That's my indulgence.

• 9:15Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 9:17Dax Shepard?

  One of the things I was blown away with, I think, because I have currently a 10 and a 12 year old, little girls. And at 10, you were six feet tall. So I'm picturing Delta at six feet tall. And at 12, you were 6'6". And I guess my question is, were they ever worried you had acromegaly, like Andre the Giant? Were they ever worried that there was something going on?

• 9:40Speaker 02

  I never heard that word, but I went to the doctor and the doctor said I had Osgood Schlatter's.

• 9:44Dax Shepard?

  That's the painful thing with your legs, right?

• 9:47Speaker 02

  I was like, oh my God, being a young kid, you don't want to hear you have.

• 9:49Dax Shepard?

  Also, I'd have been like, I'm German.

• 9:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:53Speaker 02

  So he said I have Osgood Schlatter's. So I didn't ask questions. I was like, man, my knee is gonna hurt like this forever. And then one day I just kept playing. I just grew up and I haven't had knee problems since. But my great grandfather, who I met before he passed away, was 7'4".

• 10:07Dax Shepard?

  Seven four.

• 10:08Speaker 02

  Seven four. He lived in Dublin, Georgia. We came back from Germany and my mother tells me, I was always not really ashamed about being tall because I was the only tall person in my school. She's like, you come from great stock. And when I seen this man, Dublin, Georgia, on his farm, he had a ox, he had a plow. And when he took his shirt off, he looked like a He-Man doll.

• 10:29Dax Shepard?

  Really?

• 10:30Speaker 02

  Muscles everywhere. My mom was like, that's how you gonna look when you're older.

• 10:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  And I didn't have glasses that time, but if I did, I'd have been like.

• 10:37Dax Shepard?

  Sign me up.

• 10:38Speaker 02

  Chocolate man, ball headed such myself. And he took his shirt off. I'm talking about fourteen pack. It was incredible. My mom's like, that's how you gonna look. And once I seen him, I was like, okay.

• 10:48Speaker 01

  Did you get made fun of for being tall?

• 10:51Speaker 02

  No, I had to convert into bullyism.

• 10:53Speaker 01

  Oh, you did.

• 10:54Speaker 02

  Bullyism and sillism. When you get there, people talk about you. So I had to make them like me by being silly. And the ones that didn't like my jokes, three o'clock.

• 11:03Dax Shepard?

  A bus driver asked your mom if you were retarded?

• 11:06Speaker 02

  Yes, and she punched him in the face.

• 11:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so that kind of stuff was happening, right? Any girls like you in elementary school? No, right? Because you're a fucking man.

• 11:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 11:15Dax Shepard?

  The teachers. I couldn't resist attention from women. My story is, I was that big lug in elementary. All my buddies had cute girlfriends and I just wanted that so bad. So then when the switch finally flipped in junior high, where girls were starting to go like, oh, yeah, okay, I'm into this. I just couldn't resist. I loved that approval from girls.

• 11:37Speaker 02

  I actually thought about starting a how to date book. Because for people like us, it's two stories. It's the easy side, meet them, la la la. And then there's a regular side. I started on this side. Never had to go on dates, never had to do anything. So it was more of that. So now when you're used to that and then you transition back is very tough. I was reading the five love languages and I didn't realize that sitting with your wife, watching TV is not spending quality time with her. I never knew that.

• 12:07Dax Shepard?

  Well, hold on. Then I'm fucked. Because that's what I mean.

• 12:10Speaker 01

  No, I know what you mean, though. That's just being next to somebody.

• 12:14Speaker 02

  I never knew these things. Like, I was never taught, because like you said, nobody wanted us.

• 12:17Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 12:18Speaker 02

  And then when I hit that cover of Sports Illustrated.

• 12:20Dax Shepard?

  Everything changes.

• 12:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm coming with you. Oh, for real?

• 12:22Dax Shepard?

  How are you gonna not say yes to that?

• 12:24Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 12:25Dax Shepard?

  If you want it so bad? It's the same. I wanted the cool BMX bike, couldn't get it. I wanted the cool big wheel.

• 12:31Speaker 02

  You wanted the mongoose?

• 12:31Dax Shepard?

  I wanted a mongoose, or a super goose, or the hutch, any of the shit the other guys have.

• 12:36Speaker 02

  I have a confession.

• 12:37Dax Shepard?

  Tell me.

• 12:38Speaker 02

  Dion Wallace, I stole your mongoose in Germany at one time.

• 12:41Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 12:42Dax Shepard?

  That was you.

• 12:43Speaker 01

  Wow. I'm glad you got that off your chest.

• 12:45Dax Shepard?

  That's your limitations on the stolen bike are probably up. Yeah, I wanted all that stuff so bad. So then when I could get it, I just acted like an idiot, because it was like stored up.

• 12:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:55Speaker 01

  Wait, we gotta stop on love languages.

• 12:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I wanna know yours.

• 12:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:58Dax Shepard?

  Can I predict yours?

• 12:59Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 13:00Dax Shepard?

  I think it's words of affirmation.

• 13:02Speaker 02

  You're really good. That's the first one.

• 13:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:04Dax Shepard?

  Same.

• 13:05Speaker 02

  Really good.

• 13:05Dax Shepard?

  I need you to tell me that you love me.

• 13:08Speaker 02

  Thank you, that's all.

• 13:09Dax Shepard?

  And which one's hard for you to meet in a partner? You know their love language is this.

• 13:14Speaker 02

  I can meet them all.

• 13:15Dax Shepard?

  Acts of service?

• 13:16Speaker 02

  I can do all of that, of course.

• 13:18Dax Shepard?

  No, let me just say, acts of service isn't writing a check. Acts of service is like mopping the floor. You can do that?

• 13:23Speaker 02

  Now I can do that.

• 13:24Dax Shepard?

  That's the hardest for me.

• 13:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, 10 years ago, I couldn't do that.

• 13:26Dax Shepard?

  We had a sex expert on, a sexologist recently. And you wanna hear the worst part? The things that gets women horniest, wives, it's not foreplay, it's called chore play.

• 13:37Speaker 02

  Chore play?

• 13:38Dax Shepard?

  Chore play. They wanna see you like clean and do the laundry and like take shit off their plate. I get it.

• 13:45Speaker 02

  Chore play?

• 13:46Speaker 01

  It's not seeing them do it. It's not like it's a turn on to watch. It's just like, oh, this was taken care of. Now I don't have to take care of it. That's hot.

• 13:55Dax Shepard?

  We had her on, I'm like, oh, this is great. She's gonna tell me like I gotta rub her feet and then I'll be in business. She said, no, you gotta like you.

• 14:00Speaker 01

  Do the dishes.

• 14:03Speaker 02

  What if you're athletes? Chore play?

• 14:05Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 14:06Dax Shepard?

  Well, look, the NBA groupies are.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  That's gonna work every time.

• 14:09Dax Shepard?

  Yes, chore play.

• 14:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, you have a little bit of a leg up there.

• 14:12Dax Shepard?

  I think about how fragile life is when I was watching that doc. Again, you got one of these situations where you're either a good time Charlie, good times, your Sanford and Son, all the things that made you love being goofy and comedic. And then you got a side that's like, don't fuck with me, it's on. And you beat a kid up and he had a seizure. And I think about, man, life's fragile like that.

• 14:33Speaker 02

  Very fragile. It's definitely protected by the man upstairs.

• 14:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Can you remember the moment of kind of panic of, oh, wow, this just got serious?

• 14:42Speaker 02

  You know, a lot of times when you're, and I was a medium level, you have another link, we're not high. Probably stole a car, steal candy bars, fights, all that teenage stuff. It didn't hit me till after that, you couldn't went to jail. And being six, five, six, seven, you probably would have been one of those cases. Oh, we have to try you like an adult.

• 15:00Dax Shepard?

  You're black.

• 15:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 15:01Dax Shepard?

  You're huge.

• 15:02Speaker 02

  And I'm living in Fort Stewart, Heinzville, Georgia.

• 15:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 15:05Dax Shepard?

  No, you're getting tried as an adult at 12.

• 15:07Speaker 02

  Exactly. So it changed me because now you have to tame the bully, damn near turn it off. He's still there when necessary. It's like a superhero. I'm not going to walk around Superman all day and be Clark Kent, but when there's a problem, I'll and then come back to normal. And then my mother sat me down. My father was very upset, definitely got in trouble and had to do chores around the base. He's like, you didn't go to every house and take out the garbage and cut every grass. But my mom was like, baby, you're special, you're strong, you're going to hurt somebody. Don't ever do that again. And when you're raised by a drill sergeant, you're programmed not to make the same mistake twice.

• 15:41Dax Shepard?

  I had a bad run of being a bully in elementary school. I was dyslexic, so I was dumb as fuck.

• 15:47Speaker 02

  Me too.

• 15:48Dax Shepard?

  But then compounding that was I had a brother that was five years older than me that beat my ass every day.

• 15:53Speaker 02

  Right.

• 15:54Dax Shepard?

  And then I had crazy step dads in the mix. So I have to admit selfishly, when I got to school and I had some power.

• 16:01Speaker 02

  Oh, didn't it feel good?

• 16:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 16:03Speaker 02

  It felt good going to school and everybody fearing you.

• 16:05Dax Shepard?

  When you're leaving a house where you're kind of scared sometimes.

• 16:08Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:08Dax Shepard?

  Cause you speak so positively about Phil, your dad. And for people who don't know, I'm sure everyone knows, but not your biological dad, but been raising you since you were two, fucking great dad on all accounts, but also ruled with a heavy hand. I wonder, as positive as all that was, do you think going to school and feeling like being him in the scenario was a bit of a relief?

• 16:32Speaker 02

  Now that I look at it, it definitely was a release. Like you said, when you don't have control in one place, you can have control in other places irresistible. It feels great. Rule would have seriously heavy hand, but all I can say is thank you.

• 16:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, it seems like you were able to admire it.

• 16:47Speaker 02

  I do. A lot of people wouldn't be able to handle it, but I've never been one of those ones. I'm glad he did it because even as a medium juvenile delinquent, he used to say stuff that's true today. You looking at that ugly ass car, you gonna have 50 cars. You wanna buy your mama house to 2,000 square feet. If you listen to me, your house gonna be 100,000 square feet. You gonna be living in Beverly Hill. Like he used to tell me stuff that I wouldn't even dream. And when it happened, I was like, you know what? It worked.

• 17:12Dax Shepard?

  The subtext of that is I really believe in you and you need to believe in you as much as I believe in you.

• 17:17Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 17:17Dax Shepard?

  But I do wonder for you to admit it might have been too hard at times would almost appear as weakness. And if that's in the way at all.

• 17:26Speaker 02

  I could say it now, would never say it then. Weakness has also made me who I am. Because when you, oh, he's never gonna win a championship. Pisses me off. It taught me how to take that criticism and turn it into motivation. I love being criticized because now I'm able to look at the criticism and see if there's some truth in it and work on it.

• 17:48Dax Shepard?

  I heard you make a great point on Pivot. You were awesome on that. That whole show is great.

• 17:52Speaker 02

  It is.

• 17:52Dax Shepard?

  More specifically, you don't mind criticism from a peer or someone above you? And I think that's really relevant.

• 17:59Speaker 02

  Yes, it is.

• 18:00Dax Shepard?

  You seem to have a really healthy attitude about anyone who doesn't know what the hell you've been through or done the thing you've done and they're chirping online. Why on earth would you pay that any attention?

• 18:10Speaker 02

  Oh, I work a lot in law enforcement. And when the term cyberbullying came up, I didn't understand it. It's simple. Like if he's bullying you, you don't know him, why don't you block him?

• 18:19Speaker 01

  Right. You don't have to engage.

• 18:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I block people every day. It's a phenomenon. And I enjoy going into schools, talking to children about that. But it took a nuclear physicist to teach me that. So I used to read everything.

• 18:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's irresistible.

• 18:34Speaker 02

  So when I talk to these nuclear physicists, start laughing. He said, who's that guy? I don't know. So why do you care? What did Jerry West say? Hey, Wes loves me. All right then, what did Kareem say? Kareem's a little hard. Okay, well, you listen to people like that.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:47Speaker 02

  And then he made me watch this movie. I don't know if you saw it, The Fan, with Robert De Niro and Wesley Snipes.

• 18:52Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 18:53Speaker 02

  So remember when Robert-

• 18:54Dax Shepard?

  He's a deranged baseball fan?

• 18:55Speaker 02

  Yes, and he kidnaps him. He says, "I want to hurt you." He says, "How do you hit all those home runs and all the RBIs?" And Wesley said, "I don't care." And once I saw that, it changed my life. My career took off.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 19:06Dax Shepard?

  Really?

• 19:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. So of course, I listened to my family and people that are equal and people that are above.

• 19:12Dax Shepard?

  Okay, let's go back to Lucille, your mom.

• 19:13Speaker 01

  Oh, I love your mom.

• 19:15Speaker 02

  Yes, thank you.

• 19:16Dax Shepard?

  Mom's the fucking greatest.

• 19:17Speaker 02

  Thank you. When I didn't believe in myself, I would just throw things out, and she would believe it. And then one day, take me to an AAU game. We rounded this neighborhood and she stops and she looks at this house. Not the houses that we live in, but it was a nice house because she never had a proper house that was just hers. You know, grew up brothers and sisters and we always brothers, sisters and cousins. It was in Alamo Heights, Texas. That's where all the rich people live in San Antonio. And she was looking at it. And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna get you a house. But once I put something that's set in stone, you're gonna have to kill me to break in. And I've seen this lady wake up every day, cook a hell of a breakfast,

• 20:02Speaker 02

  iron our clothes, iron her clothes, go to work, come home, cook a hell of a dinner, wear the same pants on Monday, Wednesday and Fridays, they just change up the shirts. And had one outfit for company parties and all that, but never complained. So from two to 12, juvenile delinquent, and then one day I'm watching TV and John Kunkack signs for 15 for three, five million dollars a year. So my father has some tickets and we go watch this guy play and I'm like, "He's good, but I'm better." So I'm like, "If he's making five million a year, I can make four." I wasn't putting myself above, like, "I can make four." But I said, "I'm gonna buy this lady a house." And that was my whole motivation. That's been my whole motivation forever. You know, just to take care of her.

• 20:47Speaker 01

  And then how did it feel when you did it?

• 20:48Speaker 02

  It felt great because I had to trick them in the buy a house because they were really good parents. They actually raised me through a lot of horror stories. You know, we got all this money coming in. We know nothing about financial literacy. Buy your house first, get yourself situated, then buy me a house. I was like, okay.

• 21:03Dax Shepard?

  It's safe to assume you're the first in the family tree that's dealing with this kind of way.

• 21:08Speaker 02

  Yes, I am. Only thing I know is putting the money in the bank. But wait, the bank only insured two hundred thousand. So if you lose that, I'm kind of scared. Invest, invest in what? So I had to like figure it out through trials and tribulations, but I saw this nice house. Beautiful, like something I've never seen before, the pool and the marble floors. And they were on the mission to help me find my house first. I was like, Mom, you like this house for me? She's like, I love it for you. And I gave her the keys. I've never seen a person cry so fast.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course.

• 21:41Speaker 02

  And she's like, we can't afford this. I was like, it's already paid for. I wanted to make certain mistakes early. Like when you got a whole bunch of money coming in, you can be silly upfront.

• 21:50Dax Shepard?

  You really fucked up the first million, let's be honest. You blew it all in one day.

• 21:53Speaker 02

  One day, one day.

• 21:56Dax Shepard?

  You buy three Mercedes in one day?

• 21:57Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, three Mercedes in one day.

• 21:58Speaker 01

  Oh, that's incredible.

• 21:59Dax Shepard?

  You bought himself one, brought it home and started like, that's fucking nice. He goes, well, let's go get you one.

• 22:05Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 22:06Speaker 02

  No, but when I gave her the keys, she's like, we can't afford this. It's paid for. And the reason why I pay for it, if everything goes wrong, if I'm one of those dumb athletes, at least my mom's house is paid for, yes, exactly.

• 22:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, have you watched the thirty for thirty bro?

• 22:19Speaker 02

  Yes, I have.

• 22:19Dax Shepard?

  That's so heartbreaking.

• 22:21Speaker 02

  It is.

• 22:22Dax Shepard?

  And what they point out, which is so great is like, if you chart anyone else's earning potential in their life, it starts little and as they get older and wiser and more experienced, it keeps going up and up.

• 22:33Speaker 02

  But it's easy to do. A lot of people don't understand. I was looking at NBA salaries a day. I want to put people's business out there, but a guy's making fifty and living in California after taxes, only netting seventeen. They always, oh, he's making two hundred million, but we know as business people, you know, net two hundred million.

• 22:49Dax Shepard?

  You got an agent, you got taxes.

• 22:51Speaker 01

  But they're spending as if they have two hundred.

• 22:53Speaker 02

  That's the point.

• 22:54Dax Shepard?

  Yo, he was overdrawn within a couple of days of his first million dollars.

• 22:58Speaker 01

  We're like, how'd this happen?

• 22:59Dax Shepard?

  He's like, oh, wait, there's only six hundred thousand, but I spent them. For people who don't know your whole story, I do think it's fascinating that in ninth grade you tried out, you got cut. 10th grade, you try out and your legs hurt so bad. And then your dad gets stationed in Germany and you're over in Germany and the coach of LSU, Dale Brown, he's visiting. Your father goes, you should go introduce yourself to him. And he sees you and you start asking questions and he asks, how long are you enlisted for? He has no idea you're 13 years old or whatever.

• 23:33Speaker 02

  And this is a time where you have to start believing in yourself and other people believe in you. He put his arm around me like he found gold.

• 23:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, he did.

• 23:42Speaker 02

  You're 13? And he grabbed me, he said, where's your father at? Well, he met my father and they had a conversation. And that's the reason why I went to LSU, because before I became the character known as Shaq.

• 23:52Dax Shepard?

  You were terrible at that point, right?

• 23:54Speaker 02

  Awful.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  What do you mean?

• 23:55Dax Shepard?

  As a basketball player.

• 23:56Speaker 02

  Couldn't play.

• 23:57Dax Shepard?

  He was terrible.

• 23:58Speaker 02

  Couldn't dunk, couldn't jump. It ain't no way I'm supposed to be one of the world's greatest big men. But he believed in me and he wrote me a letter. And all the exercise he sent, I did it. And Scott cut to next year. I wrote him a letter back and he says, you know what? A lot of African American kids don't get the opportunity. I'm still giving you a scholarship. You can come, you can be like team manager and maybe work your way up to an assistant coach.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 24:23Speaker 02

  So I had a scholarship, even if I didn't become Shaq to LSU.

• 24:26Dax Shepard?

  You must recognize that you have this incredible life of highs and lows. It's like dad's not there. Sard shows up. Well, that's a jackpot. You got fucked, then there's a jackpot. You get cut, it kills to run, but you meet this sweet guy and he believes in you. That's kind of crazy luck.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  A lot of angels.

• 24:43Dax Shepard?

  My senior year, so you got cut in ninth grade, you can barely run down the court in 10th grade. And then by senior year, you averaged 47 points in the playoffs.

• 24:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 24:52Dax Shepard?

  The highs and lows of that and kind of the whiplash of how quickly your life can kind of change, I think could set a little bit of a pattern. I have a similar one. You get kind of maybe a little addicted to this.

• 25:04Speaker 02

  I am because it helps us continue the fight. And I was trying to teach my second son, Sharif, that. High school started off slow, state championship. You go to college, not really playing, never playing. Then you have the hard thing, boom.

• 25:20Dax Shepard?

  For people that don't know, at UCLA, your son has to have heart surgery.

• 25:23Speaker 02

  Has to have heart surgery.

• 25:24Dax Shepard?

  When he's at that moment feeling NBA bound.

• 25:26Speaker 02

  Exactly. So go to the Lakers pre thing, cut, G League, cut. And then I had to pull this out and be like, my man, we don't need another basketball player.

• 25:34Dax Shepard?

  We got one.

• 25:35Speaker 02

  Yeah. We got one. You just being a outstanding kid, that's the biggest compliment I can get. Cause one, you're never gonna be like me. I'm crazy.

• 25:43Dax Shepard?

  Right. I'm from a different era.

• 25:45Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 25:45Dax Shepard?

  I didn't beat the shit out of you. I didn't beat the shit out of you. Let's start there.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  Like, I don't know if you watched the Reebok show I did, but we had a hard time.

• 25:52Dax Shepard?

  Power moves.

• 25:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was like, how many things did I miss? You missed a lot there. It's like, you don't ever wanna be like that. Once you have a family, you don't wanna be like that. I had to be there because it was my destiny, because I wanted to build something big. So I kinda had to be like this, but you don't have to be like that. So you see a lot of kids that are very successful just by hard work and passion and just like we did. It's like all of us that it doesn't matter if you have a degree or not, you work hard, you believe in something, you follow it. Like my oldest son is one of the world's top DJs.

• 26:18Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really?

• 26:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, Miles O'Neal. I bought him a little controller and I taught him.

• 26:22Dax Shepard?

  Do you guys do shows together?

• 26:24Speaker 02

  Yes, we do. Midnight tonight, we're going to Germany.

• 26:26Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 26:27Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 26:27Dax Shepard?

  And you're doing a show together?

• 26:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:28Dax Shepard?

  And you have room on your plane for me?

• 26:30Speaker 02

  I do.

• 26:31Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Thank you for the invite. I'll come.

• 26:33Speaker 02

  And I remember one time I got mad, but then I smiled at the same time. So I landed in LA, he picks me up and the car smells like cannabis. So now I get in dad.

• 26:44Dax Shepard?

  You sound like such a dad. It smells like cannabis, not weed.

• 26:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. So now you motherfucker. I don't put hands on, but it gets very intense. And he starts laughing. He said, dad, have you seen my ladies report card? I said, yeah, it's got all lace. He said, okay, no disrespect dad, but I've always had AIDS. I've always did what you wanted to do and cannabis is legal and I'm 21. And it made me shut the fuck up.

• 27:05Dax Shepard?

  Oh, good. He kinda checkmated you.

• 27:07Speaker 02

  Checkmated me.

• 27:08Dax Shepard?

  You've never been into weed?

• 27:09Speaker 02

  No. Hookah.

• 27:10Dax Shepard?

  You smoke kuka? That's just tobacco?

• 27:13Speaker 02

  Yes, it's tobacco.

• 27:14Dax Shepard?

  And does it give you a little buzz?

• 27:16Speaker 02

  No, it enables me to follow the routine of sit your ass down. Oh, it calms you down? No.

• 27:22Dax Shepard?

  To be still.

• 27:23Speaker 02

  When I was young and dumb and I lost my family by doing too much, being out, being in too many places.

• 27:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 27:29Speaker 02

  So now. Don't go to clubs, don't go to gentlemen's clubs. If you see me in a club, it's because I'm DJing. I gave myself a lifetime ban on that stuff. But, so I'm not a mute. I don't just work and go home. I allow myself to go to hookah bars. Cause at a club, bottles, you walk in and section and this and that. But at a hookah bar, you sit down. So now when I'm, I'm thinking about the next move. It's blowing up.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  Do you regret that period of time that you were?

• 27:57Speaker 02

  Yes, of course I do.

• 27:58Speaker 01

  Because of the consequences?

• 28:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  But also, I don't know how you could resist that at that time.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  But that's an excuse. When you're raised by intelligent people, you know better. Especially once you walk down the aisle and give those vows, you gotta have some control.

• 28:13Dax Shepard?

  Well, this is my single favorite part of the doc. Where people don't know, so your biological dad, Tony, he was not around. Soon as you broke, he went on Ricky Lake. It was a bummer. Were you embarrassed by that? I would have been really embarrassed.

• 28:29Speaker 02

  Yes, because I didn't want people in my business.

• 28:31Dax Shepard?

  Did it feel trashy?

• 28:34Speaker 02

  A little bit. It's not trashy, but you know, in our business, once the media gets a hold of something juicy, now I gotta answer it.

• 28:41Dax Shepard?

  Oh yeah, that was a big match for everyone.

• 28:43Speaker 02

  So now it's, oh, you don't want to talk to your father and your little brother? I don't even know them people. But when I found my family, I said I had to ease up.

• 28:53Dax Shepard?

  Did you say in the doc, when I do the same stupid shit, he did, I'm in no position to judge you. I think the fact that you were able to, I don't know about mend is the right word, but reach out and have some connection with him.

• 29:03Speaker 02

  That's all Dr. Lucille O'Neil.

• 29:05Dax Shepard?

  Oh, she advised you on that?

• 29:07Speaker 02

  She said, listen.

• 29:07Dax Shepard?

  What a good woman.

• 29:08Speaker 02

  She said, he's a great man, just had some mistakes. You get to know him. So when we first reconnect, I said, listen, not judging you. I know everything about it, what happened. I understand. I love you, brother, but I'm 50. I'll need a dad.

• 29:25Dax Shepard?

  I hate your son.

• 29:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:27Speaker 02

  But I respect Phillip, really, because when the guy tried to come back around, he's like, no, it's mine. Stay with me. We know who you are. We know you brought him in the world, but he's here.

• 29:37Dax Shepard?

  Phillip's bad, dude.

• 29:38Speaker 02

  My roof, he's under my rules. And when you want to call and talk, you have my permission, you come through me.

• 29:44Dax Shepard?

  So what's crazy that you didn't get seemingly biologically is dad was an addict. You had to be on pain pills to play.

• 29:52Speaker 02

  I did.

• 29:53Dax Shepard?

  You were playing through so many injuries. Again, back to this thing where I'm suspicious that for you to admit you have any weakness would be too painful. You're just keeping it all in. You're just playing through everything. You have stuff that's going on. And yeah, you had to be on pain pills. How did that not grab you? Or did it grab you a little bit? Have you ever been scared about any of that?

• 30:12Speaker 01

  Addiction wise.

• 30:13Speaker 02

  So I have a question.

• 30:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 30:15Speaker 02

  Is addicting for the chemical effect? Or you just taking it? I was having my heated discussion with my doctor. He's like, you were addicted, but I didn't feel high.

• 30:24Dax Shepard?

  Right. You just felt the absence of pain.

• 30:27Speaker 02

  Yes. I didn't know that was addiction.

• 30:29Dax Shepard?

  But let's get deeper, Shaq. So there's the absence of physical pain. And then there's the absence of the mental anguish. So even if you're not feeling high, but you're suffering mentally and that thing provides relief.

• 30:42Speaker 02

  I don't think I was suffering mentally. If I had a knack, I would take it. I don't want to feel that knack because we need this game.

• 30:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 30:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was more physical.

• 30:50Dax Shepard?

  You said I could play good without them.

• 30:51Speaker 02

  Yes, but I need to play great. And then I always do homeboy math. Oh, it says take one, I'm taking three.

• 30:57Speaker 01

  Oh, of course.

• 30:58Speaker 02

  Which is now my counts are low. I'm fixing everything now, but my liver and kidneys real low because of that. But like you hear stories where he was addicted, he did that. I was like, I wasn't that, but I had to have them. So is that addiction?

• 31:11Dax Shepard?

  For me, addiction is I'm preoccupied by it. I think about it. I need it. I'm talking to you, but I've got three in my pocket. I gotta figure out how to take a couple without.

• 31:20Speaker 02

  I always thought you'd take it for this effect.

• 31:23Dax Shepard?

  Oh, right.

• 31:23Speaker 02

  For example, when I had surgery, I had to take the oxycodone. I would take it just to feel the pain. But after I stopped feeling pain, I would stop taking it. But when I was playing, I always had to take indecent and Arudis.

• 31:34Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 31:34Speaker 02

  Anti-inflammatories. I had to take a club sandwich, fries, two pills, wake up.

• 31:39Dax Shepard?

  Club sandwich.

• 31:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  Doesn't

• 31:41Speaker 02

  No injuries.

• 31:43Dax Shepard?

  No, that's what I'm saying.

• 31:44Speaker 02

  It's like, no, but for nineteen years. But in the summer, I wouldn't take it.

• 31:48Dax Shepard?

  When the summer started and you no longer were taking them, did you feel withdrawal effects?

• 31:52Speaker 02

  No.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  And you weren't increasing the amount. That's a big thing.

• 31:55Speaker 02

  Well, I was. Says take one, I will take two.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  But then would you take four and then eight and then sixteen, like that type of thing?

• 32:01Speaker 02

  Important games, yes. I'd take two the night before the game and then after shoot around, take two more.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's a fine line when it's physical pain alleviation versus

• 32:11Dax Shepard?

  Your job.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  It's your job. Yeah. I don't know.

• 32:14Speaker 02

  Again, when I hear the word addiction, I always thought.

• 32:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, a junkie.

• 32:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:19Dax Shepard?

  But guess what? There's doctors and lawyers and airline pilots and people who are managing.

• 32:24Speaker 02

  Right.

• 32:25Dax Shepard?

  You can be a managed addict or a functional addict. I certainly was. I was still coming to work and doing everything I had to do. But I thought about it all day and dosage is going up. And at some point I'm like, oh, we're taking a lot of.

• 32:36Speaker 01

  And you're hiding it. Hiding it is a big, big.

• 32:39Dax Shepard?

  You never hide, right? That's your gift.

• 32:41Speaker 02

  It's not that I was hiding. It was just.

• 32:43Dax Shepard?

  No one was asking.

• 32:44Speaker 01

  You're just doing it in secret.

• 32:45Speaker 02

  Well, the trainers knew. I mean, I'm not telling my wife or my kids or my boys, but hey, man, I got this knee pain. Here you go. Take one.

• 32:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 32:56Speaker 01

  And we're just doing.

• 32:57Dax Shepard?

  This can't be for a seven foot, one three hundred pounds dude. That's not what the study was, where they determined the dosage.

• 33:03Speaker 01

  And that's probably right.

• 33:04Dax Shepard?

  You've got a built in excuse, but that was my same excuse. I'm like, they don't know me. When I drank, I also drank a case of beer a day. Like, I got a constitution. That's not for me.

• 33:14Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 33:21Dax Shepard?

  We get support from Skims. Okay, I have a confession. I genuinely love matching pajamas. It's the best part of Christmas morning, really. Everyone in the same matching set looking ridiculously cute in front of the tree.

• 33:35Speaker 01

  I love matching pajamas. I'm literally going to be in coordinating sets with all my friends this holiday season because I got them, spoiler to my friends who are listening, the same Skims pajama set I've been living in. So soft and cozy and they look cute. So you can leave the house and go get a late night hot chocolate, cozy.

• 33:56Dax Shepard?

  It's so great how Skims has sets for everyone too. Women's, men's, kids, even your pets. So nobody in your life has to be left out this year.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  I have a bunch of different pajama sets. One of my favorite is the organic cotton sleep long sleeve set.

• 34:12Dax Shepard?

  Okay, tell me more.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  So comfortable, very chic too. The top is a button down, but very, very soft, easy to sleep in. But as I said before, you can multi-purpose this and look super cute.

• 34:25Dax Shepard?

  Hot chocolate runs. It's like the pajamas we grew up in, except without the scratchy polyester that made opening presents feel more like a hot yoga class that nobody signed up for.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  All the nostalgia, none of the discomfort. Shop my favorite loungewear and pajamas at skims.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select podcasts in the survey and be sure to select Armchair Expert in the dropdown menu that follows. If you're looking for the perfect gifts for everyone on your list, the Skims Holiday Shop is now open at skims.com.

• 34:54Dax Shepard?

  This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Every family has that one holiday tradition nobody actually enjoys, but everyone keeps doing because stopping it would feel like a federal offense. For me, it was a specific meal situation that I will not name because my family listens. But at some point, you have to ask yourself, am I doing this because I love it or because I'm afraid of what happens if I don't?

• 35:17Speaker 01

  Yes, and that question applies to so much more than the holidays. I think a lot of us carry these invisible rules about how we're supposed to spend the holidays, who we're supposed to see, what it's supposed to look like. And when you start unpacking that with a therapist, you realize half of your stress is coming from rules you didn't even write.

• 35:33Dax Shepard?

  This is where BetterHelp can be a great resource during the holidays. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences, which means they typically get it right the first time. If you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored recs.

• 35:52Speaker 01

  I just love therapy. I've been avoiding it recently, or not avoiding it, but I was like, oh, I'm busy, I'm busy, I'm busy. I haven't canceled, canceled, canceled. But then I-

• 36:00Dax Shepard?

  You start feeling it.

• 36:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, because then I had it this past weekend and I was like, oh my god. And just thank God, thank God for her. Yeah.

• 36:08Dax Shepard?

  BetterHelp is now in network with more than 125 health plans with many copays as low as $15 for eligible members. And if you don't have eligible insurance or live outside the US, you can still get 20% off your first month. Sign up and get 20% off at betterhelp.com/dax. That's betterhelp, H E L P, dot com slash DAX. We get support from our sponsor Lilly. For adults with obesity or with excess weight and weight-related medical problems, it's time to find out about Foundo or for Glee Prone. Foundo is a once daily prescription GLP-1 medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight

• 36:52Dax Shepard?

  who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off.

• 36:57Speaker 04

  Foundo should not be used with other GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Foundo is safe and effective for use in children. Don't take Foundo if you're allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had majorary thyroid cancer or multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Stop and call your doctor right away if you have an allergic reaction, a lump or swelling in your neck, or severe stomach pain. Serious side effects may include inflamed pancreas and gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes, if you're nursing, pregnant, plant to be, or taking birth control pills, and before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. Taking Foundo with an insulin or sulfonylurea may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include diarrhea, nausea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and may cause kidney problems.

• 37:37Speaker 04

  Once Daily Foundo is available by prescription only in 0.8 mg, 2.5 mg, 5.5 mg, 9 mg, 14.5 mg, and 17.2 mg tablets. Learn more at foundo.lilly.com or call 1-800-LILY-RX. Now is perfect to talk to your doctor about Foundo.

• 37:55Dax Shepard?

  This episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. Look, I have my dream job. I get to talk to folks I admire like crazy and ask them virtually any question that I want to. I can't imagine a better way to spend my time. But even dream jobs have some not-so-dreamy parts. The stuff that gets in the way. Of the actual work. Now that's where Service Now's AI specialists come in. They don't just tell you what you should do about your busy work. They actually do it, start to finish, cases closed, requests handled, no extra work for you. So you and your team can focus on what matters most, which for me is, are they obsessed with male bodies on the same level as I am? They never are.

• 38:38Dax Shepard?

  To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com.

• 38:50Dax Shepard?

  Okay, the other really amazing thing that's really obvious in the doc is you have this incredible, at the same time, you have this epic humility and an epic ego. And you're kind of like managing them both and you're using them both as needed. And I'm wondering when you didn't get it right. Here's an example. So you go into the league, your first round pick, your number one pick, you go to the magic. You go to the finals, year three, you beat Jordan en route to the finals. At what are you, 22 years old, 23 years old?

• 39:27Speaker 02

  23.

• 39:27Dax Shepard?

  Really quick, what's that moment like?

• 39:30Speaker 02

  It was a great moment, but it was also a teaching moment. Because when you beat God, you think the job is done.

• 39:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Right.

• 39:39Speaker 02

  But then you have to realize in Greek mythology, there's other gods. So we beat Mike.

• 39:44Dax Shepard?

  And then put it neutral?

• 39:45Speaker 02

  Exactly. Not put it neutral, we're partying, women's clubs.

• 39:49Dax Shepard?

  Right, you're celebrating. Yeah.

• 39:52Speaker 02

  Parades, like it was just too much.

• 39:54Dax Shepard?

  So yeah, I mean, dude, I couldn't have managed any of this. There's no judgment in this. If I was 22 or three years old and I beat God, how could I not think everything was possible and that my powers were unlimited? I think that'd be very misleading at 23.

• 40:08Speaker 02

  You know, I realized early that I live two different lives. It's real life and then there's our life, the superstar life. You can't live that life harder than you live this life. So I'm a regular guy. Hello, sir. Hello, man. You always have to have that. A lot of people in our business are, oh, like they live that.

• 40:27Speaker 01

  It doesn't look good. It's not enviable. They're not living a real life. They don't have real relationships.

• 40:33Speaker 02

  They don't know that until tragedy comes.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:36Speaker 02

  I've always been a student. I'm like, I'm not gonna do that. And then everyone disappoint my mother. Like one time we went to a restaurant. I was trashing, not trashing them, but just I'm shagging with my mom. Hurry up. My mom, grandma said, baby, you don't treat people like that.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  Thank goodness for her.

• 40:50Speaker 02

  And then again, I'm programmed. When you make that one mistake, you delete it. Cause if you do it again, you don't get that.

• 40:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:57Speaker 02

  So she's like, baby.

• 40:58Dax Shepard?

  That was your warning.

• 40:59Speaker 02

  Yes. She's like, baby, you don't need to treat people like that. So that's why when I go to restaurants now, I want to be known as the biggest tipper. I want to let you know that, hey, I appreciate you.

• 41:07Dax Shepard?

  I was thinking, didn't we have an actor on who used to work at the Beverly Hills?

• 41:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 41:11Dax Shepard?

  Four Seasons and said they waited on you all the time?

• 41:13Speaker 01

  Yes, and you gave very big tips. Was it, oh, this is gonna drive me nuts.

• 41:17Dax Shepard?

  It was great. This person worked at the Beverly Hills Four Seasons. Was it Sebastian? The comedian, Sebastian.

• 41:24Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 41:24Dax Shepard?

  He worked there for years. And I said, who was the best customer? And literally right away, he's like, Shaquille. Shaquille would come in and you would have some shockingly little meal. I was kind of shocked with how.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  Fruit or something?

• 41:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Come in there, have a fruit platter and then leave a hundred bucks or something.

• 41:39Speaker 02

  I learned early that he appreciated the people to help us become who we are. Why would I shit on the server because I'm Shaq?

• 41:46Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 41:47Speaker 02

  I just really appreciate people.

• 41:49Dax Shepard?

  Me too. Okay. So back to the way you've balanced this humility and this ego. One part I love is from the second you get in a position where you're going to be doing interviews, you actually practice. You get people to come film you. You start practicing reading ads and being interviewed and realizing, oh, this is a part of my business. I gotta be humble enough to not just think I can go do this. So there's like great humility in that. But then you get to the Lakers. Seemingly this is going to be a fast pass to the finals. You guys are going to be champions, going to be Showtime 3.0 or whatever. And just, it's not coming. And I'm imagining, if you had to say you were at a lowest point, was that lowest point when you should have been winning and it wasn't happening?

• 42:31Speaker 02

  I was at the tipping point. I'm going crazy. A lot of people don't realize that, but every time we lose. Of course, it's gonna be my fault not being a great free throw shooter. I used to tear my house up. I have to be cordial at the press conference, but when I get home, whatever I see,

• 42:45Dax Shepard?

  It's give and smash.

• 42:46Speaker 02

  TV, class. So one time, I think it was our last time we got swept before Phil came in. I'm in the locker room. There's piss and shit everywhere. I'm fucking ripping off urinals, ripping off the doors.

• 42:59Dax Shepard?

  You're hulking out.

• 43:00Speaker 02

  I'm going crazy. And somebody grabs me and he's pretty strong. I'm like, get the fuck off me. And I turn around, it's Mr. West. So now I have to turn it off. He pushes me. I fucking go back. Calm the fuck down. You're gonna get it done. And he tells me that he went to the finals seven, eight or nine times and lost before he won.

• 43:18Dax Shepard?

  He never won.

• 43:19Speaker 02

  I think he won one.

• 43:20Dax Shepard?

  I don't think he ever won. I think that's the great heartbreak of Jerry West. I don't think he ever won. I don't know. Rob will look it up.

• 43:27Speaker 02

  I'm like, hold on. Seven finals?

• 43:30Dax Shepard?

  Can you imagine the agony?

• 43:32Speaker 02

  Not first round, second round, finals. And he was like, I fucking believe in you. You're gonna get it done. And then he tells us, we gonna make some fucking changes. His coach is out here. We gonna get a new coach. When he said, I got a new coach, I'm trying to help him out. I saw Phil was having problems in Chicago. I was like, you need to call Phil. So then Phil does something that I don't know if he think I was gonna pass his test. Because when you hear that this guy's a problem, this guy's a problem, you hear these guys are divas. Sometimes you don't want to deal with divas.

• 43:59Dax Shepard?

  You gotta make sure you're coachable.

• 44:00Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly. So I get to Montana.

• 44:03Dax Shepard?

  He tells you, come see me in Montana. Test number one, really?

• 44:06Speaker 02

  Yes, test number one.

• 44:06Dax Shepard?

  And you don't even know where Montana is?

• 44:08Speaker 02

  I don't. I go to Montana. He has this nice log cabin house and I see the fucking balls and the sunroof and it's hitting those balls. And I knock on the door and he says, I need you to do me a favor. And I said, what? He said, you and my son need to move that log from the front to the island.

• 44:23Dax Shepard?

  Swim across the lake, a big old log.

• 44:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:26Dax Shepard?

  That's a big swing to tell you to go swim to an island pushing a log.

• 44:30Speaker 02

  But what he doesn't realize is my Phil used to do the same shit. I ain't got no gas. Push my car two miles.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  But still, you could have been like, I'm Shaq. I'm not doing that.

• 44:39Speaker 02

  I could have.

• 44:39Dax Shepard?

  But that's where Phil's the gift that keeps on giving. You're kind of hardwired at that point to respond to that kind of command, right?

• 44:47Speaker 01

  Again, it's when you respect someone.

• 44:49Speaker 02

  Yes, but I know it was a test and his son was already in the water. So I was like, all right, I just didn't realize how fucking cold it was.

• 44:56Speaker 01

  This sounds miserable.

• 44:57Dax Shepard?

  So he comes in and then you have this incredible.

• 45:00Speaker 02

  Three in a row.

• 45:01Dax Shepard?

  I gotta tell you a really quick funny story. You got me out of a DUI. I went to UCLA. A classmate and I were the biggest fuckups at UCLA. He's now a professor there, which is hysterical. Jason DeLeon and you guys won in 2000 and we were such Lakers fan and we went out horde. And we were both riding on my motorcycle in Venice and we saw cops and we tried to turn down an alley and we ended up in a bush. Then the cops caught us and we were both like, we're fucked. We're going to jail. And the cops were like, what's happening here? And Jason goes, I'm sorry, officer. I'm a lifetime Lakers fan. We're just celebrating that they won. And the cop goes, I'm a lifetime Lakers fan too. Why don't you guys get a cab home?

• 45:46Speaker 01

  Oh, nice.

• 45:48Dax Shepard?

  And let us out.

• 45:48Speaker 02

  That's awesome.

• 45:50Dax Shepard?

  Anyways, yeah, you guys go on this huge run and then there's another part of the doc that I'm curious about and someone who I think has the same kind of money things, which is like, I wanted it. I'm so afraid of losing it. It's so important. That's the metric I'm going to evaluate myself on. What did you pay me? What did my co-star make? Why'd he make more? I should be here. That racket, do you think you cared about money too much sometimes?

• 46:15Speaker 02

  Of course. It takes never having it to want it. And then once you get it, you know that there's a window you can get more. My dream was to make eight million for 10 years. That was my dream in high school. I had it on the board. Remember that place? It was a store I used to go, thing was called Spencer's.

• 46:30Speaker 01

  Oh, Spencer's, yes, yeah.

• 46:32Speaker 02

  Spencer had a poster with this nice house with three car garage. You remember that?

• 46:36Dax Shepard?

  Justification for higher education.

• 46:38Speaker 02

  Yes, that. Boom. I had that.

• 46:40Dax Shepard?

  Had a Lamborghini Countach, a Ferrari.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 46:44Dax Shepard?

  And a Porsche.

• 46:44Speaker 02

  I had that on my wall.

• 46:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, I did too.

• 46:46Speaker 02

  And I was like, you know what? Eight million for 10 years. And I already had them. I might get a Jimmy Blazer. Get me a little Benz and get me an old school something. So then I'm in college one day and I think Derek Coleman signs for 20, Larry Johnson signs for 30. So then I get an agent. He said, man, I'm gonna ask for 50 million. I was like, what? Like 50 million. So I was one of the first guys that you sign, but in the middle of your deal, you can renegotiate and get more money. So when I signed my 50, my guy was like, hey, man, if you do what I expect you to do, your next contract will be 100 million.

• 47:18Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 47:19Speaker 02

  I was like, what? So that's why I'm going crazy. But now when my time's up, I want 150 because I learned in the marketing class, you always start high.

• 47:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, right.

• 47:28Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna say 100 because I already know you're gonna walk me down to 80. I want 150. You know, that was like, we're not paying you 150. And then one night during Olympics, Jerry West, first time I met Jerry West, he showed me that contract. I saw so many zeros. 120, 000.

• 47:42Dax Shepard?

  Look like a telephone number?

• 47:43Speaker 02

  Yes. So I signed with the Lakers. But then my guy was like, hey, man, if you do well, this, you can get another 100.

• 47:49Dax Shepard?

  You bring three titles.

• 47:50Speaker 02

  Exactly. Yeah. So then I want more. And it's like, no, we like the young guy more. We think we're gonna trade you. So then I go to Miami and the guy was like, hey, man, if you help us win, I give you 100. I made a lot. So the answer is yes.

• 48:02Dax Shepard?

  It seems like you learned a little bit. I mean, there was a point where, yes, the money was really, really important in the Lakers. And then when you're on the Heat, Riley or whoever said, look, if I can give you 125 and we get nobody, or I can give you 100 and we can get a winning team, you made the decision then.

• 48:16Speaker 02

  Because I knew I had to win one more.

• 48:18Dax Shepard?

  And why'd you have to win one more? Be honest.

• 48:20Speaker 02

  Because I wanted to win before he did.

• 48:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I would be the same.

• 48:23Speaker 01

  You wanted to win before Kobe?

• 48:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, because you guys had to share that glory.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 48:30Dax Shepard?

  And then you get split up. And yeah, if he runs away and does it immediately, then that diminishes. That's the ego part. Again, it's the balancing.

• 48:37Speaker 02

  Yes, but it actually made both of us great because I know I used to drive him crazy.

• 48:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 48:43Speaker 02

  I knew what he was. I knew what he was capable of accomplishing. I used to drive him crazy.

• 48:49Dax Shepard?

  It's impossible, the fact that you're both on the same team. I mean, when you look at the history of the NBA, the fact that both of you, it'd be like Jordan and Wilt were on the same team, or you name the people.

• 48:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, but my leadership style, I always focus on the task. If I was with you guys, my task would be make us go viral. I bring over everything and we don't.

• 49:07Dax Shepard?

  We're gonna have to pull our pants down, I think.

• 49:09Speaker 01

  I think the picture of me standing next to you is gonna be pretty, pretty impressive for people. Basketball is so interesting because when you were talking about Kobe and the teams, it's one of the only sports that it is such a team sport. You need each other, you rely on each other, but then there's also superstars in the mix. There are best players. I just feel like that could get so complicated relationally.

• 49:34Speaker 02

  And if you look at our relationship, it's the classic tale of the godfather. You got the godfather who came from Orlando and he's the godfather. But you got a young capo and then finally.

• 49:48Dax Shepard?

  Are you Michael or are you Sonny? I think you're Sonny.

• 49:51Speaker 02

  No, he's Michael.

• 49:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, Kobe.

• 49:53Speaker 02

  Yes, I'm the godfather.

• 49:55Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great.

• 49:55Speaker 02

  Because remember when I came to LA, I was already established.

• 49:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:58Speaker 02

  I was the biggest thing in the league, so he's there and he wants it.

• 50:02Dax Shepard?

  You guys are so fucking different, too. He's like speaking Italian.

• 50:05Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 50:06Dax Shepard?

  You couldn't be more opposite.

• 50:07Speaker 02

  We win three, we do a lot of deals and then finally, I get assassinated, they thought I was dead and I relocate to Miami. I gotta get it back.

• 50:16Dax Shepard?

  Show business, MI.

• 50:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's business. And you know, for me, being relocated every four years, I just said to myself, I just did two terms in LA. Now it's time to move on, but I was, I was thinking about what would happen if we would have stayed together. We either would have won more or we would have ended very badly. And then I had to teach myself stop wearing, it's a useless title.

• 50:37Dax Shepard?

  The people in your life already think the way they think about you.

• 50:39Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 50:40Dax Shepard?

  Lucille's been thinking you were this from the jump, right or wrong. And Uncle Jerome said it best. He's like, look, you get paid the most on the team. You're gonna be the one they blame. That comes with the paycheck. It's the deal. But when you were stressed, did it ever cross your mind? Because I've had this thought when I've directed movies, which is, boy, these directors that are fucking assholes ain't great movies. Do I gotta be a dick? Do I gotta be Jordan and have my teammates hate me? Did you ever consider that you were too nice or that you had too much fun? Were you fearful you had to be an asshole to win?

• 51:10Speaker 02

  Yes, and then I became an asshole.

• 51:13Dax Shepard?

  You did?

• 51:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:14Dax Shepard?

  So you do have to be?

• 51:16Speaker 01

  You think so?

• 51:18Speaker 02

  Early, I was focused on a relationship. You all right? But now I'm focusing on the task.

• 51:23Speaker 01

  That's sad. I wish.

• 51:24Speaker 02

  No, it's not sad. Let me tell you why.

• 51:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:26Speaker 02

  If I know you're gonna give me your best rhetoric when you're upset, I'm gonna make you upset. So I know Kobe's gonna be a monster when he's mad. Motherfucker, this ain't your team. This is my team, little motherfucker.

• 51:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:38Speaker 02

  They can scream Kobe or you want. This is my fucking team. And they were driving crazy. People like, oh, he was in the gym working out? That's because you ain't shit. That fucking Michael Jordan jumper you're doing is not gonna work. What'd he do? Go fucking shoot it a million times to show me it'll work. And I needed that because I already know what I'm gonna do. So if I'm giving you 28, 30, and this guy's trying to match me and outdo me, that's 60 fucking points. Now, Rick.

• 52:02Speaker 01

  It's still for the overall.

• 52:03Speaker 02

  That's what I'm saying. Now, Rick, when I kick it to you, give me one. Big shot Bob, B Shaw. Me and him gonna do most of the damage. People don't understand. Everything I did was planned and it's never personal. Like, oh, why don't you and Kobe don't get a lot? I don't want us to get a lot. I want us to fucking win. And then Brian Shaw asked Phil one day, why you never jump on Kobe? You always jump on Shaq. And his response was, I always want Kobe to be in attack mode.

• 52:27Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 52:27Speaker 02

  Okay, so you want him in attack mode? I'm gonna make sure he attacks. He played fucking soft last night, motherfucker. He missed too many shots. I was just driving crazy. I knew exactly what I was doing. And then whenever he says something to his guys, say something, my God, they're talking about us, marketing. The more marketability we have, the more money we can have.

• 52:43Speaker 01

  It's a story.

• 52:44Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 52:45Dax Shepard?

  You know, some of your story I had wrong. I thought you came out, you were huge, and then you're like, now I'm gonna be a rapper. Now I'm gonna be a movie star. And I was shocked to learn you went on Arsenio after the first finals run at the end of the season. And you, for fun, is a bit rapped with Fush Nickens.

• 53:04Speaker 02

  Not after the finals. That was my rookie year. I did that.

• 53:06Dax Shepard?

  Okay, you win Rookie of the Year, season's over, you go to Arsenio. You rap with Fush Nickens for fun. And then the next morning, someone offers you $10 million record contract.

• 53:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:18Dax Shepard?

  I'll do any job for $10 million.

• 53:20Speaker 02

  That's my point. I'm in four seasons. I see one of Chris Rock's boys, I want you to be in my movie. First movie I did was CB4.

• 53:27Dax Shepard?

  Before Blue Chip?

• 53:28Speaker 02

  Before Blue Chip, CB4 was the first. I'm just sitting there and Chris Rock is, I'm a basketball fan, know who you are. So I know who you are too. He's like, man, you want to be in my movie? I was like, sure. And then four scenes again, sitting in there and guy says, hey, man, I want you to do this movie, Blue Chip. So, you know, I don't know the stuff, so I said, talk to my agent. Cause you know, that's the thing to say, I'll, well, okay, get you know, get to my agent. And my agent's like, bro, this is a real movie.

• 53:51Dax Shepard?

  That was a great movie.

• 53:52Speaker 02

  As a youngster, you dreamed about it, but I wasn't going to LA chasing it.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:57Speaker 02

  You gotta take advantage of these opportunities. I was like, I'm not a movie star, three million, I'll do it.

• 54:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:03Speaker 02

  What I have to do, you just have to play a basketball player. I think I can get away with that.

• 54:07Speaker 01

  I can probably do that.

• 54:08Dax Shepard?

  There was a role I might be able to pull off.

• 54:10Speaker 01

  Back to being mean though, real quick, in the doc, I thought it was so interesting. You said you fouled Jordan and then you went to go help him and he was like, don't help me, don't help anyone. And I heard that and I was like, God, that sounds so cruel. Just sounds like such a hard way to live your life, but I guess it works.

• 54:28Speaker 02

  And he was only giving me that brotherly advice because we're in the same fraternity. A lot of times you see greatness in other people. All the legends, they respected me for the way that I played.

• 54:38Speaker 01

  But did you have to turn that off once you left the court? Were you able to go back and forth like that?

• 54:44Speaker 02

  Easily.

• 54:45Dax Shepard?

  I don't like it either, but you know, as he sits here and he's got four rings, I realized, you go to a restaurant, be friends.

• 54:51Speaker 01

  No, I agree.

• 54:52Dax Shepard?

  You got a whole life to be nice and be friends.

• 54:55Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 54:55Dax Shepard?

  You got 48 minutes to do something at a high level.

• 54:59Speaker 01

  As long as you're able to do both, that's where it gets tricky, I think.

• 55:03Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 55:03Speaker 01

  Some people can't turn it off and then that's who they are.

• 55:06Speaker 02

  Turn it off, but you have to turn it off because it'll burn you up.

• 55:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:09Speaker 02

  Cause I got so many motivating factors. Gotta play well, gotta make money. If I don't make money, my mom's gonna lose her house. Ah, gotta win. Oh shit, they're comparing me to Kareem and what, there was just so many.

• 55:21Dax Shepard?

  And integrity, there were times where you're like, I feel like I'm robbing these people. They gave me all this money.

• 55:25Speaker 02

  I know, right?

• 55:28Dax Shepard?

  Well, that's the last thing I want to say, even though I want to talk about campus. But the thing I've admired about you the most, and I've said it on this show like 35 times. I watch all these sports docs. I'm not super into sports, but I am very into sports docs. I love them all. A lot of these folks haven't seemed to balance fun and success. And I think, okay, Jordan got six, but it came at a pretty big price, in my opinion. That's not how I would want my teammates to talk about me.

• 55:57Speaker 02

  Right.

• 55:58Dax Shepard?

  Kobe got five. That came at a big price. People didn't love Bird. When I look at you, that's it for me. If you can get four and have a good time, I'd rather get four and have a good time than get six and be miserable.

• 56:11Speaker 02

  Right.

• 56:12Dax Shepard?

  And I just wonder, is that just your nature? Or is that something that you've actually been conscious of?

• 56:16Speaker 02

  I've always been a class clown, so I do it for real.

• 56:19Dax Shepard?

  You're just you. You're very authentic.

• 56:21Speaker 02

  I like to make people laugh.

• 56:23Dax Shepard?

  You have the best Instagram account.

• 56:25Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 56:26Dax Shepard?

  And all of Instagram. I say this all the time.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  He talks about it all the time.

• 56:29Dax Shepard?

  I do. I'll turn, I'm like, oh, this song's been out for two days and Shaq already memorized the words. And now he's fucking doing a dance and singing to it.

• 56:37Speaker 02

  I didn't know my mom knew what Instagram was. So when I first started.

• 56:41Dax Shepard?

  Do whatever you wanted.

• 56:42Speaker 02

  I'm bragging and I get the call. I get the call, like, baby, we know how much money you make. Don't throw it away.

• 56:49Speaker 01

  I love her.

• 56:50Speaker 02

  I knew where the social media thing was going. So that's when I said, okay, 60% to make you laugh, 30% to inspire you, and then 10%.

• 56:57Dax Shepard?

  The floss.

• 56:58Speaker 02

  Floss. Not floss, sell. Like, hey, I got the new Reebok.

• 57:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 57:04Dax Shepard?

  I think I've seen you on a boat. That's in that 10% category.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  Can we talk about privacy for just two seconds before we get into the?

• 57:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 57:12Speaker 01

  What is your relationship to privacy? Because you can't go anywhere.

• 57:16Dax Shepard?

  Yes, in fact, we had the experience, you wouldn't know this, but we were in Austin at Formula One and we were on the grid.

• 57:22Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 57:23Dax Shepard?

  I'm getting some attention. Kristen's getting some attention. And then all the attention stopped. It was palpable. And I'm like, what happened? Everyone's looking a certain way. And I look and I'm like, oh, Shaquille's a quarter mile away. And we all see him. The whole fucking stadium sees.

• 57:39Speaker 01

  You're the most recognizable person on earth.

• 57:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you cannot hide. And I was like, either he loves her or it's gotta be brutal. I don't know.

• 57:46Speaker 02

  So I try to be righteous. Whatever I'm saying or doing, that's who I am in real life. We have no privacy.

• 57:53Dax Shepard?

  You in particular.

• 57:54Speaker 02

  I can't sell you one thing and then be doing something else.

• 57:56Speaker 01

  So it keeps you honest.

• 57:57Speaker 02

  It's just about being honest. I can't sit on the podcast, say, I don't drink and then be at the club. So I try to be as righteous as possible and it's the world we live in now.

• 58:07Dax Shepard?

  Did you have any phase where you're like, fuck, I can't escape this and I need a break and I want to go to Arby's and I don't want anyone to see me?

• 58:12Speaker 02

  My problem is that sometimes when you see something, your brain can be manipulated. For example, if I reach over and put my hand on your leg, but not because I'm trying to correct your leg because I slip and I fall.

• 58:24Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 58:25Speaker 02

  They can manipulate that picture like, I don't believe Shaq went to Dak's thing and he was trying to rub like, you know what I'm saying? So and then once it goes viral, people will take that clip to try to build up their site. A lot of times relationships can be manipulated because I remember one time I was at a bar and a girl came, took a picture with me and my girlfriend was, you fucking taking a picture? I was like, what are you talking about? She shows me the picture and I started, I said, what are you laughing? I said, it does look like we're together.

• 58:52Dax Shepard?

  I'm gonna grant you that.

• 58:52Speaker 02

  Did you forget I told you where I was coming to eat? Like, yeah. So I'm stupid enough to tell you I'm coming to eat here and then bring another girl. That's the only thing I don't like.

• 59:00Dax Shepard?

  I had a woman in a hot tub say, hey, can we take a picture? And I said, well, certainly not in this hot tub.

• 59:06Dax Shepard?

  But there's no way I'm in a hot tub with you.

• 59:09Speaker 01

  You have to be extra careful.

• 59:11Speaker 02

  We have no privacy, but I just try to live a true life.

• 59:14Dax Shepard?

  I look at the amount of businesses you have and I get them exhausted looking like you have 155 guys at one point and you own all these car washes and other chicken restaurants, all this stuff. It seems exhausting, yet you have things like campus. When you say I'm done kind of going into ventures because I'm trying to get more money and I'm actually trying to go into ventures where I can spread happiness and joy. I think the rubber meets the road on this. How did you stumble upon campus?

• 59:42Speaker 02

  So let me take you back. If it wasn't for basketball, I wouldn't have ever thought of college. A lot of people know they can't afford college. A lot of people know they're not getting scholarships. A lot of people know that if they do go to college somehow, get this money, they're going to be in debt for a long time. So when I met the gentleman, Todd Day, who kind of created, he said he purchased a two-year college in Sacramento. And he put it together. He wanted to make it debt free. He wanted to make it to where you can go to a two year college of your choice and be taught by professors at elite universities.

• 1:00:12Dax Shepard?

  It's online. They help you get the grant money that already exists. There's $40 billion in federal grant money that's out there. Four billion of it went unclaimed last year.

• 1:00:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, but we don't know these things.

• 1:00:23Dax Shepard?

  Right. So help you get that grant money.

• 1:00:26Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:00:26Dax Shepard?

  Be online, real online, not you watch this recorded video of a professor. And then, yeah, some of the professors, either Stanford professor, UCLA, Princeton professor, and they help you get funding. They're sending 80% of the students a free laptop because they don't have one.

• 1:00:42Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:00:43Dax Shepard?

  They're paying for half of these students wifi because they know they need good wifi.

• 1:00:48Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:00:48Dax Shepard?

  Todd A, a special dude.

• 1:00:51Speaker 02

  Yes. I used to go to all these conferences because I wanted to feel smart.

• 1:00:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:55Speaker 02

  You want to be smart, err on smart people. So this is when Jeff Bezos, years before he created Amazon. He said, you invest in things that's going to change people's lives. Because at that point I was investing in ghetto shit and crazy shit and was losing.

• 1:01:07Dax Shepard?

  Shirts with pinstripes.

• 1:01:08Speaker 02

  I was trying to get rich quick. So then he said, you invest in things going to change people's lives. So Ring was the first one, did another one, then I came across this. I was like, this is definitely going to change people's lives. This helps you get to it quicker. As you know, college, my first three years, I'm a junior and I'm in league. I'm like, how come I don't know what a subchapter S corporation is? How come I don't know what FICA is?

• 1:01:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, like I don't know any of this.

• 1:01:30Dax Shepard?

  Well, the best is your mom. You wanted to leave LSU or you're considering, as you should, to go to the MBA. And your mom's like, okay, baby, come balance this checkbook.

• 1:01:39Speaker 01

  Well, your dad said no. He was like, absolutely not.

• 1:01:42Speaker 02

  Mom said balance the checkbook. And I took one accounting class that I fucking failed. And I remember Deb is in credit, so I'm like, she's like, you're not ready. So then my junior year, I took some business courses and I was like, I'm going to retake this accounting class. I know the professor, I know I'm going to pass it. So now when she said, because I already didn't move, okay, balance the checkbook. Okay, baby, you're ready.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  I know. I love that story.

• 1:02:06Dax Shepard?

  Also Dale Brown to his credit, again, this guy would have benefited greatly if you stuck around. And you were just getting hacked nightly. And he's like, this dude's gonna get injured and not even be able to play if I keep him here.

• 1:02:20Speaker 02

  It was called Lloyds in London. There was a million dollar policy, which is a lot, but he knows a million dollars ain't gonna be a million dollars. Probably gonna be 400,000. How long is that gonna last? So he's like, man, you got a chance. Cause he called me and all he's like, man, Derek Coleman or Larry Johnson, whichever one, made 20, 30 million. You can get 40, you can get 50. You got another guy believing in me. He's like, yeah, you should go.

• 1:02:42Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 1:02:43Speaker 02

  Like for real? He's like, yeah, you should go. I was like, what about getting my degree? You'll come back. I'll coordinate with the teachers. You come back whenever you're ready. And you graduate, cause I was very close to graduating, but never really did it. And then after I shot all those movies and my mom said, hey man, I need to get this degree. So then I finally did it.

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  Great.

• 1:03:01Dax Shepard?

  Campus also has success coaches available to everyone. Talk about why that's necessary.

• 1:03:07Speaker 02

  I'm in school now at LSU because I wanted to become a sports psychologist.

• 1:03:12Dax Shepard?

  Currently you're?

• 1:03:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:03:14Dax Shepard?

  You made good on your promise to your mom and you got your BA from LSU. Then you got a master's and then you got a doctorate in education.

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  Oh my God. I didn't know any of this.

• 1:03:24Dax Shepard?

  You're sitting with a doctor girl or in a doctor's studio, talking to a doctor's double doctor.

• 1:03:29Speaker 02

  Different type of doctor.

• 1:03:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, but still.

• 1:03:31Dax Shepard?

  Now you're pursuing sports psychology.

• 1:03:34Speaker 02

  I'm changing it up to mentorship. Now, I'm all about validity. For example, if I want to be an actor, I'm definitely coming to you and your lovely wife.

• 1:03:43Dax Shepard?

  Let's be honest, you're going to my lovely wife. If I'm around, you might ask me.

• 1:03:47Dax Shepard?

  Where you park when you get to the studio?

• 1:03:49Speaker 02

  Because y'all are valid in the space. So one time I went to sports psychologist and the fucker tells me to breathe. I'm like, you don't know what it's like to be in Sacramento down by one. And if you miss this shot, it's your fault.

• 1:04:02Dax Shepard?

  There's cowbells.

• 1:04:03Speaker 02

  Yes. So that always stuck with me. No disrespect to what they know on the academia side.

• 1:04:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, but they've never done it.

• 1:04:09Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:04:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, no experience.

• 1:04:11Speaker 02

  There you go. And then there's nobody out there like us. So you know, that's ego. I want to be the first because I know, you know, as a kid, I know, been there a lot of times, dealt with the best, but so I wanted that title. And then when I'm changing it to mentorship, a lot of these young athletes, young men need mentors in their life. I just took my first class. It was about the book, The Odyssey.

• 1:04:33Dax Shepard?

  Good timing. I think Nolan's got a movie coming out.

• 1:04:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, I saw that. Yeah. So I'm learning a lot about mentorship and I'm probably lean towards being a mentor rather than being a sports psychologist.

• 1:04:45Dax Shepard?

  But a lot of these kids that end up at campus, they don't have a parent that went to college. And so many of them are going to be first generation to go to college.

• 1:04:53Speaker 02

  I can relate.

• 1:04:54Dax Shepard?

  What a great asset to have there for them to have someone go like, okay, you're failing here. You got to do this, helping them through the process.

• 1:05:02Speaker 02

  We definitely offer a mentorship program and I will be assisting in that. Being who we are, we automatically get the respect. Like you said, Phil Jackson resume, because of our resume. We always just try to keep it simple.

• 1:05:14Speaker 01

  I love that. That's so admirable. You could just be on your boat all day. You don't have to do any of this. You don't need a doctorate. You don't need any of these things. And you're pushing yourself.

• 1:05:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. Cause when I look at today's athletes, I know what their problem is in one sentence. And you know that I know. I'm not one of these fans. You know that, hey, stop trying to go to the middle, go baseline, joker.

• 1:05:35Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:05:36Speaker 02

  Jig is up.

• 1:05:36Dax Shepard?

  Your bullshit meters high for that.

• 1:05:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. They know that I know. I actually learned that from old coach, Bill Burka with the Lakers. I didn't know he was. I don't pay attention to shit. He would always say, go baseline, go baseline. And then one day he said, that's the same thing I used to tell Will. So now I'm paying attention. You coach Will? Yeah, I coach Will and I coach Kareem. So now I know this fucker knows what he's talking about.

• 1:05:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:59Speaker 02

  Baseline. I averaged eight more points and I still think him to this day. So I want to be that for these young kids.

• 1:06:08Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 1:06:14Dax Shepard?

  We get support from Superhuman. Look, I love what I do. The conversations, the ideas, the creative stuff, but there's this whole other layer of work that eats my day alive. The inbox that never ends, docs I need to get through, threads I'm behind on. And by the time I've dealt with all that, the stuff I actually want to focus on gets whatever's left. What I needed was something that just works where I'm already working. Not another tab to open, not another thing to set up. Superhuman Go from the makers of Grammarly is different. It's already right there inside your email, your docs, your browser. You don't go to it. It's already working alongside you. You're deep in a long thread, highlight it, and it pulls the key points. About to send something important?

• 1:06:57Dax Shepard?

  It flags what doesn't add up before it leaves your hands. It knows your style, your workflows, and it just backs you up without getting in the way. A thought partner that's already up to speed at your service, not after your job. So do yourself a favor and try Superhuman Go from the makers of Grammarly. Find out more at superhuman.com. We get support from Instagram teen accounts. So we talk a lot on this show about how the world is different now than when we were growing up. And one of the biggest differences is obviously social media. And I think a lot of people wonder, okay, what's actually being done to make it safer for teenagers?

• 1:07:35Speaker 01

  Which is a fair question.

• 1:07:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so Instagram has got something called teen accounts and they come with automatic protections built in by default. So anyone between 13 and 17 is automatically placed into this experience. They get age appropriate content settings, contact limits, so that by default, only people they're already connected to can message them. And time management tools, daily time limit reminders, and also sleep mode that mutes notifications from 10:00 PM to 7:00 AM.

• 1:08:02Speaker 01

  Sleep mode is genius.

• 1:08:04Dax Shepard?

  Right? And here's the thing, for anyone under 16, a parent has to give permission to change any of those settings to be less strict. The guardrails are on and Instagram keeps building new safety features to create age

• 1:08:17Dax Shepard?

  Appropriate experiences for teens.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  I am really glad Instagram's helping to give parents peace of mind with teen accounts.

• 1:08:23Dax Shepard?

  Learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work to protect teens online at instagram.com/teenaccounts. We get support by Peloton. You know that feeling when you're spiraling over a problem and you just can't figure it out? When that happens to me, I need a change of pace and I've found that running is the best way. It takes my brain out of the driver's seat and I come back with a fresh perspective. Running can be freeing and cathartic and Peloton helps you feel all of that. And now that feeling fits wherever you need it with the new Peloton Tread Flex. It's movable and foldable, designed to fit your life. So next time you feel stuck, you can go for a run literally anywhere. Whether that's in your office, living room, or even the attic.

• 1:09:08Dax Shepard?

  Plus, they have classes with expert instructors and programs to meet you at any level and keep you moving. Let yourself run. Explore the new Peloton Tread Flex at onepeloton.com. We get support from ZipRecruiter. Oh, get recruiting. So I went down this rabbit hole the other day on real holiday jobs that exist and I couldn't stop. Somebody out there is hiring a ham glazer, a professional ham glazer. Another place is hiring a lead elf, implying a whole hierarchy of elves I had never even considered. Here's the thing, these jobs need real skills. People like that are hard to find. And whether you're hiring for one of these roles or any other role,

• 1:09:50Dax Shepard?

  the best way to find qualified people who are genuinely excited about your role is on ZipRecruiter. And right now you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/dax. Plus ZipRecruiter has a new feature that shows you the most interested qualified candidates first. So you meet the right people faster. No wonder ZipRecruiter is the number one rated hiring site based on G2. Let ZipRecruiter find the right people for your roles, seasonal or otherwise. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/dax. At ziprecruiter.com/dax, meet your match on ZipRecruiter.

• 1:10:34Dax Shepard?

  I try to imagine your initial meetings with these companies. And here's my guess, I feel like when you go in to be an ambassador for a company or invest in a company, you're like, okay, here's what I'm going to provide. I need to be able to give a lot of this away. Is that part of the discussion? Like when you became the president of Reebok, every time I see you go out to talk about Reebok, everyone that's in the area is getting free shoes.

• 1:10:55Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:10:55Dax Shepard?

  You gave away a hundred and something shoes on Falm the other night. I was thinking the person that had to ship all those after you just shot your mouth off.

• 1:11:03Speaker 02

  One is marketing and two is about when I meet with the companies, I know they know me as a basketball player. So this is what I tell them. I'm the center, you're the point guard, you're the forward, and we're here to win championships. I'm not here to take your money because on the business side, a lot of times I ask them what's your out? Like, well, I wouldn't mind investing in a company that we get bought by Amazon. It's not really a goal, but it'd be nice if it happens.

• 1:11:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:28Speaker 02

  So I always ask them their out. So now that I know what your out is, so now I know, hey, hopefully I can help you get to that. And we had that with a ring. That was my first out and I got a nice hit. It was so beautiful. So now I'm chasing that. Now that I'm chasing money, I'm like, how can I help make this company grow so somebody can purchase us?

• 1:11:46Speaker 01

  Take it to the next level.

• 1:11:46Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 1:11:47Dax Shepard?

  So in classic Shaq fashion, you're giving away a bunch of scholarships?

• 1:11:52Speaker 02

  Yes. Giving away a bunch of scholarships because we want people to fulfill their dreams and we have the opportunity to do that. And a lot of people call it giving back. I'm just doing what my mother told me to do. When she sees this and hears that story, that's better than you made over 500 million. That's better than you just bought a new house 10,000 square feet in Dallas. She don't care about none of that shit.

• 1:12:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, she's not impressed.

• 1:12:16Speaker 02

  At all. And I'm getting older, she's getting older. You have to cherish these moments. So I chase those moments more than I chase anything else.

• 1:12:23Dax Shepard?

  So how many scholarships are you giving out?

• 1:12:26Speaker 02

  A lot. I don't want to say a number, definitely a lot. And if it's not a lot, now that I said a lot, I'll make it a lot.

• 1:12:32Dax Shepard?

  And anyone, anyone who wants to apply for a scholarship at campus goes to shackscholars.campus.edu.

• 1:12:41Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:12:41Dax Shepard?

  shackscholars.campus.edu. Go there.

• 1:12:44Speaker 01

  Listeners, do this. This is an awesome opportunity.

• 1:12:47Dax Shepard?

  So many kids right now are pretty disillusioned. Like, wait, I'm gonna go pick up 150 grand in debt, enter a job market that I don't even know will be there at the end of all that.

• 1:12:56Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:12:56Dax Shepard?

  This is like a disruptor approach.

• 1:12:59Speaker 02

  It is. We want to help people and I wish I could take all the credit, but Todd is a mastermind behind this. And you got the Silicon Valley boys behind us. It's been doing very well.

• 1:13:09Dax Shepard?

  All right, my last question, because it seems like we have a very similar relationship with our moms and a similar respect for our moms. I sometimes worry about my life with her not on the planet, keeping an eye on me. Not for safety, but because she's been my conscience.

• 1:13:26Speaker 02

  We are the same people.

• 1:13:27Dax Shepard?

  She's what's kept me. When I've been in a crack house, everything's fun. I'm smoking crack. This is a good time. And then, god damn, if my mom saw this.

• 1:13:34Speaker 02

  A friend of mine, mother just died, and I didn't know what to say, because I don't know how that feels. But I think about that all the time. I do a lot of speaking engagements and people will say, what do you want to say? Reach out. And I always tell the story. I don't know if you heard it. Get to see my sister in Orlando on a Thursday. She has cancer, but it's her third time having it. She beat it the two times. They don't tell me there's stage four. They don't want me to worry. So I see her, but I'm in athlete mode. Fuck it, you beat it the last two times. I called the best doctors. We good. But they're not telling me anything. But I ask her, I say, hey, you want me to stay here? And something said, just stay with her today. But I had a business deal in LA. I need to go get this money right quick. But so in my mind, I was like, you don't want me to stay, but I'm gonna go do the deal.

• 1:14:18Speaker 02

  Leave there about two, you know, three hours back. So get there at 11, stay all day, leave at six, which is a red eye flight. On the plane, she passes away. But the point is, I never got to tell her I love her. But if I would have stayed there with her all day, maybe the doctor would have been like, hey, you have stage four. Then I would have, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you.

• 1:14:36Dax Shepard?

  Right. Stopped everything.

• 1:14:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then, same thing with Kobe. We had our little riff, and then I'm downstairs practicing with my son. And listen, Kobe was good to my kids. They love him. His Uncle Kobe. I always tell people, this is dad beef.

• 1:14:51Dax Shepard?

  He seemed to have immense integrity.

• 1:14:53Speaker 02

  Yes. And then, so I remember one time I was in San Antonio. It's like, you hate Dave Robinson? I say, yeah, but not to the point. If I see him at a restaurant with his beautiful wife, I'm gonna beat him up. This is a, this is a dad thing. So anyway, they love him. So I'm working with one of my sons and one of my oldest sons come crying. So now I'm trying to stop time. My mother died. Your mother? One of your boys get like shot? Hey man, what you crying for? Kobe passed away. And I said, what the fuck you just said to me?

• 1:15:22Dax Shepard?

  That feels impossible. Healthy, vibrant.

• 1:15:24Speaker 02

  Because the night before, we just watched LeBron break his record. All day talking about Kobe. Kobe passed away. I said, bro, stop fucking playing. So now on the phone, it's going crazy. I need confirmation. I'm calling people. So now I have to break down, but it makes you like, fuck.

• 1:15:41Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:15:42Speaker 02

  I saw him at the last game. We had a little thing, but I could have. So I always tell people, hey, reach out. Ex.

• 1:15:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, well, if I were you, I think I would have wanted to say to him, maybe, hey, you made me better. I want to thank you for that.

• 1:15:56Speaker 02

  Yes. Or hi, or you.

• 1:16:00Speaker 01

  Anything.

• 1:16:00Speaker 02

  Anything. So always, always people, even though I say it, I still need to do it.

• 1:16:04Dax Shepard?

  One thing that made me sad in the doc was the Penny stuff.

• 1:16:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, that made me sad too.

• 1:16:10Dax Shepard?

  Like, are you good with Penny?

• 1:16:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're all good. I was young and dumb. Like you said, remember the ego thing?

• 1:16:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:16:15Speaker 02

  Ego.

• 1:16:16Dax Shepard?

  Well, and it's almost not your fault.

• 1:16:17Speaker 02

  No, it was.

• 1:16:18Dax Shepard?

  I mean, yes.

• 1:16:19Speaker 02

  It was. I'm tactful enough to fix any situation.

• 1:16:23Dax Shepard?

  Sure, the repair probably you could have done better, but I'm saying the context you come from, I gotta have this. This is how I'm valued. I know this is how I'm valued. Why don't I have this? I understand it.

• 1:16:33Speaker 02

  And then again, it was a Godfather thing. Oh, I'm the fucking man. You trying to say he's a man, Mr. Commission? No, no, no. Oh, you don't want me? Okay. The LA mafia wants me. Rather than saying, okay, you control this part of the business. I control that part. Like Magic did this thing in Korea and it worked perfectly.

• 1:16:49Dax Shepard?

  This is a completely stupid question. It's my last one. I don't know why I've always thought this, but all those years I was obsessed with the Lakers. I was like, I think if I would have been bros with anybody on that team, it'd be Robert Ori.

• 1:16:59Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:16:59Dax Shepard?

  What do you think about Ori?

• 1:17:00Speaker 02

  I love Ori. You know, Kobe and I get a lot of credit, but definitely would not have won. Any without the others. So I always try to share the name. Big shot Bob saved both of our ass a lot.

• 1:17:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:11Speaker 02

  Rick Fox saved our ass a lot. B Shaw, Gary.

• 1:17:14Dax Shepard?

  Those boys that catch on fire sometimes and you go like, ooh, as a fan, you be like, oh, thank.

• 1:17:17Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. So I always try, but he was a great guy and they really respected me. They knew me. They understood me. And everybody always talking about, oh, if you would have been in better shape. My method is my method. You beat me up so much during the year. I'm not doing shit in the summer. Cause I already know mentally when I come back, I'm fucking killing whoever's in my way. Take me some time to get there, but you know, I don't need to come in the first forty games.

• 1:17:40Dax Shepard?

  I got the quintessential ingredient.

• 1:17:42Speaker 02

  Exactly. And then I'm gonna come in, everybody gonna talk this shit. I'm just gonna get me mad. And then I'm gonna turn it off. Like, I don't wanna come in with the lights. I don't wanna come in with the lights dim and see what's going on and then turn them on at the right moment. Cause a lot of times when you come in in shape, you get worn out. I'd rather work up to it. So I just came in how I came in. And then like I always say, I want a skinny shack, medium shack, fat shack.

• 1:18:06Dax Shepard?

  I've lied to you because I've said last question three times. This is the last one.

• 1:18:10Speaker 02

  Four.

• 1:18:11Dax Shepard?

  Four, probably five. Another favorite part of you for me is, I remember one time you came to a game and you were fucked up. I think maybe you didn't come out to the second quarter. And then you're getting interviewed after the game and they're like, big fella, what was going on? And then you rap, you freestyle, stop it up, boil loco, eat a bunch of chicken, have diarrhea in the locker room.

• 1:18:37Dax Shepard?

  This dude's my dude.

• 1:18:38Speaker 01

  That's so great. That's so great.

• 1:18:40Dax Shepard?

  And then the other day, you were mid live broadcast on TNT and you had to fuck.

• 1:18:46Dax Shepard?

  Cause you were about to shit your pants and I was like.

• 1:18:49Speaker 01

  We love a shit your pants story here.

• 1:18:51Dax Shepard?

  An unauthorized evacuation is about the funniest thing of all time.

• 1:18:56Speaker 01

  What could be more inhumane?

• 1:18:57Dax Shepard?

  Even Superman's almost gonna shit his pants sometimes.

• 1:19:03Dax Shepard?

  Well, that's it, man. You've just brought so much joy to my life and so many other people's lives.

• 1:19:07Speaker 02

  I forgot about the Tom Holland thing, but I remember that.

• 1:19:09Dax Shepard?

  That was a fun cul-de-sac, man.

• 1:19:11Speaker 02

  It was.

• 1:19:11Dax Shepard?

  It was you, Tom Holland, Charlie Sheen was up the street. I mean, you talk about three crazy people on one block.

• 1:19:18Dax Shepard?

  Well, great to see you. I hope everyone goes to shackscholars.campus.edu and starts that education journey. I mean, if this dude could find time to pick up a master's, a bachelor's, a doctorate.

• 1:19:32Speaker 01

  No excuses.

• 1:19:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I can't imagine someone's got a better excuse. Can I use your restroom?

• 1:19:39Dax Shepard?

  All right, be well, brother.

• 1:19:42Dax Shepard?

  He's an arm care expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's gotta let him have the facts. I saw you've done an Architectural Digest spread.

• 1:19:55Speaker 01

  It was not an Architectural Digest spread, but thank you for bringing it up because I would like to shout it out. There's a very awesome shoe company called Margot. I like feel like I'm doing something wrong.

• 1:20:09Dax Shepard?

  Sure, me too. Are you recording on your Zoom?

• 1:20:14Speaker 01

  I am, but also, wait, Rob, you said something's supposed to be like click to the right thing. What's that mean, sea level?

• 1:20:22Dax Shepard?

  Sea levels, but it's like how high the ocean is.

• 1:20:25Speaker 01

  Okay, so there's a very cute shoe company called Margot and

• 1:20:31Dax Shepard?

  Hold on, I'm exposing my, can you see my leaf blower I keep in my office?

• 1:20:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:37Dax Shepard?

  Okay, like over here, it looks like I have a nice office and then I scooch this way and you go, no, it's a shed.

• 1:20:44Speaker 01

  Wow, mixed messies.

• 1:20:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. Okay, sorry. Shoe company.

• 1:20:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and they pick some people to kind of photograph them in the shoes, but they want to do it in their environment. So we did it in my apartment and it was so cute. The photographer was incredible. Her name is Sydney. Shout out to Sydney. And I thought it was also so nice because now I get like pictures in my apartment before I leave it.

• 1:21:14Dax Shepard?

  I was gonna say, I would imagine, they turned out great to the degree I would imagine people think that's your new house. For a little apartment, it's quite nice.

• 1:21:25Speaker 01

  It is quite nice. I've spent a lot of time making this a very nice apartment.

• 1:21:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:21:31Speaker 01

  I've been in here eight years plus.

• 1:21:35Dax Shepard?

  Have you really?

• 1:21:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I moved in before we started the show.

• 1:21:39Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow. Boy, time it just boogies along. When did you return home from New York?

• 1:21:44Speaker 01

  Okay, I got home on Friday. I have so many stories. I have one that I am so excited to tell you.

• 1:21:51Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great. And just to recap, the last time we recorded was at Dr. Mike's beautiful place.

• 1:21:57Speaker 01

  It was.

• 1:21:58Dax Shepard?

  We're resuming from there.

• 1:22:00Speaker 01

  Yes, we were together in New York and then you left. I stayed a week and I even added a day.

• 1:22:06Dax Shepard?

  Right, which turned out to be fortuitous.

• 1:22:09Speaker 01

  It was fortuitous because it rained that day and all of the flights were grounded.

• 1:22:16Dax Shepard?

  I was texting with my friend Ben and he was sitting on a tarmac for like three and a half hours trying to leave New York on the day you were supposed to leave.

• 1:22:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I just, the day before, I just knew, I was like, I, I don't, I'm not going home tomorrow. I'm not going home. I'm gonna extend. And my powers are so scary.

• 1:22:38Dax Shepard?

  I bet they're starting to scare you, yeah.

• 1:22:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, not to, remember when I accidentally killed Michelle Trachtenberg? Like, my powers are wild.

• 1:22:48Dax Shepard?

  Okay, careful.

• 1:22:49Speaker 01

  I know, but I just, I just wanna own it. Like, I, I have to be, I, I'm trying to use them for good, but like, sometimes things go willy nilly.

• 1:23:00Dax Shepard?

  Right. You're, you're like, um, Terrence Posner, and you haven't really perfected your powers yet. You're just coming to realize you have them, I suppose.

• 1:23:07Speaker 01

  Year one, I guess.

• 1:23:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. Or, you know, you're like putting the stepbrother in the snake exhibit. You know, you're still there.

• 1:23:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, but he deserved it. And Michelle Trachtenberg did not deserve it.

• 1:23:19Dax Shepard?

  No, no.

• 1:23:21Speaker 01

  I want to be clear about that.

• 1:23:22Dax Shepard?

  I'm nervous to, yeah, even talk about her, to be honest.

• 1:23:26Speaker 01

  Look, obviously, it's a horrible, horrible tragedy. Um, but, and I realize this is genetic, like, my dad, um, well, we know my dad has powers, but also, he, when I was home with him, And he was talking about quantum mechanics and quantum physics and how that's going to be his retirement plan. He, um, he was like, but I don't want to learn too much. Like he was worried that if he like knew too much, it would like make him go crazy, kind of. And that's feels the same as this to me for some reason.

• 1:24:02Dax Shepard?

  I can understand how he would have that fear.

• 1:24:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:06Dax Shepard?

  Like if you really know how the sausage is made, maybe something is lost. Okay. But hit me with your New York story.

• 1:24:13Speaker 01

  It was all so, so fun. I was, it was confirmed that like, when I'm there, I'm just at a hundred. Like I'm going from place to place to place. I'm walking everywhere. I'm seeing everyone. I'm eating everything. Thank God. I had been off of Triz for a little bit. So I was able to

• 1:24:34Dax Shepard?

  So you could enjoy.

• 1:24:35Speaker 01

  Thank God.

• 1:24:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:24:37Speaker 01

  Um, so anywho.

• 1:24:40Dax Shepard?

  It's a rare, rare comment to hear someone say, thank God I wasn't on Triz that week.

• 1:24:45Speaker 01

  I know, but it's true. Like, can you imagine if I hadn't been able to eat all the, although it's a little eh, it's a little confusing because I was expending so much energy that maybe I would have been hungry. Anyway, I don't know. So Anna came to me, to New York for a couple of days, which was so fun because she was coming back from Europe and she was like, why not stop in New York? So she came, that was great.

• 1:25:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:13Speaker 01

  Her and I went to my favorite restaurant in New York, pretty much top three favorite restaurants of all time. It's called Esodi. Oh, it's the restaurant where the mystery happened last time with that guy, Kenneth.

• 1:25:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Okay. Great. Kenneth.

• 1:25:29Speaker 01

  Which we.

• 1:25:30Dax Shepard?

  But you didn't bump into him again?

• 1:25:31Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:25:31Dax Shepard?

  Or maybe you did. Maybe that's the story. Okay.

• 1:25:33Speaker 01

  It's not the story. That story has no conclusion. We, the mystery remains.

• 1:25:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:25:39Speaker 01

  Okay. We're there. We have a very early reservation, like as it opens five o'clock. We get there. Um, and I look over and I'm like, wait a minute. That's Martha Stewart.

• 1:25:55Speaker 01

  Martha Stewart was at Esoty.

• 1:25:58Dax Shepard?

  My girl, my dream side piece?

• 1:26:00Speaker 01

  Yes, she's, oh, oh, my God. I it's definitely the best celebrity sighting I've ever had in the wild. Like that, it was so crazy to see her. Also, eating at the restaurant I'm eating at, it was such an endorsement.

• 1:26:15Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, how validating. Was she there with Snoop Dogg?

• 1:26:18Speaker 01

  No, oh, that would have been so cool. No, she was with a whole bunch of other people. She was in head to toe, yellow, Suzy Condi. Suzy Condi is a clothing brand that you definitely know because Kristen wears a lot of Condi. And I have a couple of pieces. They're kind of like velour sets.

• 1:26:39Dax Shepard?

  Airplane gear, right?

• 1:26:40Speaker 01

  No, you could wear them out. You could wear them to Esoty.

• 1:26:43Dax Shepard?

  OK, they've been pitched to me as airplane. Like, you want to be comfortable on an airplane, but you want to look stylish. So that, I was told, is premium airplane wear.

• 1:26:53Speaker 01

  It's great for a plane. It's great for Esoty. It's great all the time. But she was in a yellow. It looked so good. It made me really want the yellow one. I almost tried to go during the trip to copy her, but then I didn't. Anyway, she looked.

• 1:27:07Dax Shepard?

  And how close were you seated?

• 1:27:08Speaker 01

  The whole restaurant is so small. So like, you know, I'm not good at feet.

• 1:27:13Dax Shepard?

  OK, could you like, I'm asking, was she two tables over, six tables over, one table over? Wow. And who was she with?

• 1:27:21Speaker 01

  I didn't know. I wondered if it was like her family. There were a lot of people there, but no one I recognized except her. Also, I should say there are two tables in between, but the one in between no one was sitting at. So I just had a very open view.

• 1:27:34Dax Shepard?

  Oh, great.

• 1:27:35Speaker 01

  She looked gorgeous. She looked so good.

• 1:27:39Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:27:39Speaker 01

  Then I found out yesterday, adding to the sim of all of this. There was a picture of her in the cut. She's wearing the yellow Condi. And so I think it was that day that we saw her, that she was photographed. And she has like a new skincare line or something. And whoa, her skin looked incredible. So if she was really wearing her skincare, wow, we should all get it. Because it she looks really, really, really good.

• 1:28:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, she's she's hot.

• 1:28:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's more, there's more. You think that's the end of the story, but it's not. So that was so, so exciting. Then she leaves. Bye, Martha. Um, I'm on a cloud, right? There's two people sitting next to us at a table, right next to us, that I can say is like five inches away. Basically, one table. And

• 1:28:33Dax Shepard?

  You're with them, yeah.

• 1:28:34Speaker 01

  Yes, and it was a couple. They were kind of upset once they saw our lasagna come because then it reminded them that they wanted the lasagna, but they forgot to order it. Okay?

• 1:28:46Dax Shepard?

  Oh, bummer. And I saw photos of the lasagna and it looked insane.

• 1:28:50Speaker 01

  Oh, it's so good. It's so good. Anyway, so they were very upset about that. They wanted to chat about it with us. So we did that. And then they left and then a new couple comes and sits down. I'm talking to Anna. So I can see a woman, you know, sitting next to Anna. And I was like, oh, my God, that's a famous person, too. I know her face, but I don't remember her. I don't know who she is. I was looking on. I was like, I think that I think she's somebody, too. So Anna went to the bathroom to to look, to be clandestine. And then she texted me and she said, yes, it's Meredith Grey's stepmom from Grey's Anatomy. And I was like,

• 1:29:34Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yes.

• 1:29:36Speaker 01

  Yes, it is. It 100% is. And also, ding ding. I mean, the SIM stacking here is so wild because Meredith Grey's stepmom died of hiccups on the show.

• 1:29:48Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:29:50Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:29:51Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:29:52Speaker 01

  And if people

• 1:29:53Dax Shepard?

  Did she she didn't have any in in the restaurant, though?

• 1:29:56Speaker 01

  Not yet. She hadn't eaten yet.

• 1:29:57Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:29:58Speaker 01

  So maybe people remember, maybe they don't. But hiccups are a huge part of all of our lives. Jess has hiccups a lot. And I was watching ER and there was a storyline where someone came on and had hiccups, seemingly fine, and then actually had AIDS, which was horrible.

• 1:30:18Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow. They went. They went to that well so often.

• 1:30:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, he had AIDS and then I had to call Jess and say, hey, I just want to make sure you've been tested. Okay. So all this is happening, Meredith's stepmom hiccups wild, right? Then we leave, we go meet Emma at a hotel bar, very cute, Swan Room, shout out. We didn't think we were gonna get in because they weren't dressed appropriately, but they did let us in. Um, and Emma, we were telling the story to her and she was like, what's her name? So I looked up her name and I was like, oh, Mayor Whittingham. She was like, yeah, Mayor Whittingham, I know that name. I look, she's married to Anthony Edwards. Dr. Green.

• 1:31:04Dax Shepard?

  Come on, you're, you're, the one you're obsessed with?

• 1:31:10Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 1:31:11Dax Shepard?

  Who's the star of the pit?

• 1:31:12Speaker 01

  No, that's Noah Wiley.

• 1:31:14Dax Shepard?

  Oh, well, that's what I thought.

• 1:31:16Speaker 01

  No, Dr. Green, Dr. Green, huge main character of ER, I love him. I, I mean, this is huge.

• 1:31:26Dax Shepard?

  Cross pollinating medical shows.

• 1:31:28Speaker 01

  Yes, but the story isn't even over.

• 1:31:31Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:31:32Speaker 01

  I tell Anna, I was like, oh, my God, he's married to Anthony, she's married to Anthony Edwards. And she was like, looked at a picture, she was like, oh, yeah, that's who she was with.

• 1:31:41Dax Shepard?

  Come on.

• 1:31:42Speaker 01

  I was sitting next to him. I mean, can you believe this? This is wild. I, I, I am, I'm shook. No one on earth could possibly be more excited than me right now. I've been watching ER, I've been obsessed. He was on Zodiac and I was so excited to see him pop up on Zodiac, like, of all the people to, to be sitting next to him, for it to be me is wild. And then yesterday, I was, I've been rewatching Girls the past couple of days. And he's, he pops up on Girls. What is the world trying to tell me?

• 1:32:23Dax Shepard?

  To get an Anthony Edwards poster, I think.

• 1:32:27Speaker 01

  Can you believe it?

• 1:32:29Dax Shepard?

  I can, yeah.

• 1:32:31Speaker 01

  You can, Dex. That's wild.

• 1:32:33Dax Shepard?

  I'm seeing the level of excitement from you for sure. And then, and I'm applauding it and I'm grateful for it. But just imagine, I was like, I saw Mike Binkelstein and Phil Brackman, a motorcycle racer and a car racer. You'd be like, I can see you love those people, but I don't, I don't know who they are.

• 1:32:52Speaker 01

  No, that's not even close to the same. If you had been talking about Phil Brinkenstein for like months and AIDS and you've been, and, and no one knows about, no one's talking about Phil Brinkenstein except you. And then all of a sudden you see him.

• 1:33:08Dax Shepard?

  No, I'm telling you like, oh, what'd you do this weekend? I watched a MotoGP race. You know, I'm watching Formula One and MotoGP every single weekend. And then I see like a MotoGP rider and an F1 driver having lunch. You would be like, yes, I understand for you, that must've been so thrilling. But you have no mental picture of them that you wouldn't wanna see them eating. So I'm bridging that gap. Does that make sense?

• 1:33:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm just saying, I'm saying the coincidence of it all, not about the people necessarily, but the coincidence that I've been talking about AIDS and ER. No one is talking about that except me. You have to give me that.

• 1:33:48Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I, I, I'm giving all of it to you. I, I, this has got to be absolutely mind blowing for you because you've been consuming it nonstop.

• 1:33:57Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:33:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:34:00Speaker 01

  Anyway, I, if you think this is a cool story, you should definitely comment.

• 1:34:07Dax Shepard?

  I'm, I'm, I'm only, I'm only saying, I'm trying to say, yes, that's crazy. And I myself have no excitement level over seeing them because I, I'm not in that world.

• 1:34:20Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:34:21Dax Shepard?

  Does that make sense?

• 1:34:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. Anyway, that was a crazy day and.

• 1:34:28Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:34:28Dax Shepard?

  A blessed day.

• 1:34:29Speaker 01

  It was a blessed day. I'm supposed to know him, I guess. The world is telling me such.

• 1:34:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, bummer. You missed him.

• 1:34:36Speaker 01

  You know, it's funny because I definitely, you know, obviously I was very starstruck by Martha, but I would never say anything to her. But with Anthony Edwards, I would have said, hey, I'm really sorry. As I was leaving, as I was leaving, I would say, hey, I'm really sorry to interrupt. I'm just a really huge fan. I've been, I've been rewatching ER and you're just so great. So, you know, have a good dinner. But I would have had to have said it.

• 1:35:04Dax Shepard?

  Would you have thought to buy their dinner?

• 1:35:06Speaker 01

  Wow, that's funny. I do think about that a lot with people, but I,

• 1:35:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:11Speaker 01

  I don't, that didn't cross my mind. Oh, but you're right. I didn't know yet. It wouldn't have crossed my mind with them for some reason. I think because I know they're extremely wealthy. They have that ER money.

• 1:35:24Dax Shepard?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:35:25Speaker 01

  And Gray's money. My God, don't forget.

• 1:35:27Dax Shepard?

  I bought a cute couples meal two nights ago because I was nervous that the five kids we had brought to the restaurant may have reduced their enjoyment of their night out.

• 1:35:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:40Dax Shepard?

  But that was more of a, I guess, a payoff.

• 1:35:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, that did happen to Jess and I some months ago. We were at a, a Quarter Sheet. It's a very, very cute pizza place in Atwater. And Jess,

• 1:35:57Speaker 01

  Jess like stabbed this cherry tomato.

• 1:36:04Speaker 01

  And it exploded on a guy next to him.

• 1:36:07Dax Shepard?

  Oh, oopsies.

• 1:36:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. And he was panicking. I missed the cherry tomato incident. All I, I like put my head up to see Jess be like, you know, panicking, saying, I'm so sorry. Are you okay? And he was like, what was that? You know, it was very uncomfortable. And then Jess did pay for his dinner again as a sort of a payoff.

• 1:36:29Dax Shepard?

  So since I saw you, my update is we got home and very rash and last minute decision. I think we got home on Saturday. Huey came over with the boys and we went on the boat on Sunday. And on that boat ride, Kristen and the girls were still coming home from New York. I said, You know, they're going to be home. Then we have guests coming three days after that. If we're ever going to go to Dollywood, it has to be tomorrow. So the girls get home and I I'm like, okay, everyone stay packed. We're going to go to Dollywood tomorrow. We drove out there, Huey Hayes, their two boys, Lincoln, Delta, Kristen and I.

• 1:37:14Dax Shepard?

  And it's about three and a half hours away in the Smoky Mountains in Monica. I'm going to say something very dangerous.

• 1:37:26Dax Shepard?

  I think it might be my new favorite amusement park.

• 1:37:29Speaker 01

  That's, I don't, I don't know what to say. I don't know what to say to that.

• 1:37:33Dax Shepard?

  I had been told numerous times since we got here that it was super nice. And I don't know why this is very unfair, but Dolly's personal brand, obviously, is quite over the top. Big hair, loud makeup, you know, I love it. It's a whole vibe. I think I pictured the park maybe representing that. Does that make sense? Like pink everywhere and this Dollywood is so charming and cute and elegant and clean. It's like run like Disneyland. It's just spotless. The food's outrageous. We had, we went to an all you can eat restaurant for lunch

• 1:38:14Dax Shepard?

  that had unlimited fried chicken, unlimited pot roast, unlimited sausage, unlimited something.

• 1:38:23Speaker 01

  It's a lot. It's, it's, it's quite a meal right before you ride all these rides.

• 1:38:28Dax Shepard?

  Oh, is that a heavy, heavy meal? And, and let's add that it was 93 or four degrees and a bazillion percent humidity. We were hitting the park as hard as you could. Then we did that all you can eat. And then we really slowed down dramatically and then it also felt way, way hotter. And then we started saying, okay, kids, we got a hard out at this time, little negotiation. But I gotta say, I was blown away and they have a wooden roller coaster there. I'm not, I don't want to get into a debate with people. I'm sure there's a faster one. I was told it was maybe the fastest wooden roller coaster. In the world, I think it went seventy three or seventy eight miles an hour. But on a wooden roller coaster, that feels like one hundred and thirty miles an hour. It's, I think it's the most extreme roller coaster I've ever been on.

• 1:39:14Dax Shepard?

  I went on it back to back and it was absolutely wild. What a ride, what a ride. Oh.

• 1:39:22Speaker 01

  That's so fun.

• 1:39:23Dax Shepard?

  So much fun. Oh, it was so fun. And again, this, this amusement park is in the Smoky Mountains. You're like walking and there's just like hills next to you with forest. And it's just as enchanted as, as you can imagine. Also went to Gatlinburg in mid-July, it was mid-July. That's from Boy Named Sue. You remember that?

• 1:39:43Speaker 01

  Oh, Elvis.

• 1:39:44Dax Shepard?

  Gatlinburg in mid-July, I hit the bar because my throat was dry. Johnny Cash. Went to Gatlinburg, walked around that adorable town. Went to a steakhouse with a salad bar. I've been, I've been just hitting the jackpot with salad bars. I bet I've been to six salad bars.

• 1:40:01Speaker 01

  And no Listeria yet.

• 1:40:02Dax Shepard?

  No, not a touch.

• 1:40:04Speaker 01

  That's.

• 1:40:04Dax Shepard?

  And so much so that Aaron and I have decided in my older age, in my retirement, I'm going to write a book called The Great Salad Bars of America. And he and I are going to drive around the country and try to figure out what are the top ten best salad bars in the country. Do you think anyone would buy that book?

• 1:40:24Speaker 01

  If you make it look nice, if you make it a coffee table book, yes. I, I can help you make it look nice. Can you build your perfect salad bar salad? Build it right now.

• 1:40:36Dax Shepard?

  So iceberg, I love iceberg, just a mountain of iceberg. I like sliced mushrooms thin. I like tomato, I like bacon, I like garbanzo beans. I like sesame, no, not sesame, sunflower seeds.

• 1:40:54Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:40:55Dax Shepard?

  And then I like, you know, a blue cheese and then mix in another dressing just to give it a little more bite from that mild blue cheese.

• 1:41:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:03Dax Shepard?

  So vinegar or something. And like at Sperry's, my favorite, my current favorite salad bar is Sperry's Steakhouse in Nashville. And I will do. Three or four trips to the salad bar before the meal comes. And every single time on the fourth trip, I say, I really should have just got the salad bar. I don't want my entree. But then I go back and I do the exact same thing the next time. And we'll probably repeat that again. I wish I had the, the confidence, cause I just really want that salad bar. I can eat, you know, probably like two cubic feet of iceberg lettuce.

• 1:41:38Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:41:40Dax Shepard?

  If you can picture that.

• 1:41:41Speaker 01

  Your ideal salad bar salad is, is so different from mine. I haven't

• 1:41:47Dax Shepard?

  Tell me yours, please.

• 1:41:48Speaker 01

  Been to a salad bar in a while, but my, my old salad bar routine. When I was living in the South, it's gonna seem very Southern.

• 1:41:59Speaker 01

  Lettuce, I guess.

• 1:42:01Dax Shepard?

  Sorry, I, I left out hard boiled egg. I just want to throw that in there in case you forgot about that topping as well.

• 1:42:06Speaker 01

  Thank you for reminding me. I would go lettuce, but not ice, like the mixed green lettuce.

• 1:42:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, mixed greens.

• 1:42:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, mixed greens. Tomato, shredded cheese, ham.

• 1:42:26Dax Shepard?

  Me too.

• 1:42:27Speaker 01

  Oh, you're adding shredded cheese. Okay, yep, yep.

• 1:42:30Dax Shepard?

  I forgot that, yeah.

• 1:42:31Speaker 01

  But are you, which cheese do you put? Cheddar?

• 1:42:34Dax Shepard?

  The, the blend, ideally a Colby Jack, right? Combo?

• 1:42:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like shredded, it's yellow, it's white, goes on there.

• 1:42:43Dax Shepard?

  Like Mex- Mexican mix, they call it in the, when you get it at the grocery store?

• 1:42:47Speaker 01

  Right, but it's thicker than that. The cheese, the cheese pieces are thicker than what you'd get at the grocery store, Mexican cheese. Then

• 1:42:56Dax Shepard?

  True, true.

• 1:42:57Speaker 01

  Ham, you know how they have that like ham in tiny strips, matching the size of the cheese?

• 1:43:03Dax Shepard?

  Cubed ham, yeah.

• 1:43:04Speaker 01

  But it's strips.

• 1:43:05Dax Shepard?

  You like strips of ham?

• 1:43:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's strips. So that goes on there.

• 1:43:10Dax Shepard?

  Ham shreds.

• 1:43:10Speaker 01

  Cold ham shreds.

• 1:43:14Speaker 01

  I already said tomato, I think.

• 1:43:16Dax Shepard?

  What about for crunch? Are you going croutons?

• 1:43:19Speaker 01

  Croutons and then ranch.

• 1:43:21Dax Shepard?

  That's nice. I'll, I'll dance with ranch, uh, when the, when the time calls. Yeah. If it's a buttermilk base.

• 1:43:27Speaker 01

  I'm so sorry, sprouts.

• 1:43:29Dax Shepard?

  Sprouts. Okay. Yeah, that's great. That's a great salad.

• 1:43:33Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:43:34Dax Shepard?

  So yeah, Dollywood, I just really cannot, I cannot celebrate it more. And then since coming home, he sent me an article that it was recently named the best theme park in America.

• 1:43:46Dax Shepard?

  I think first time Disneyland's been topped.

• 1:43:49Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:43:50Dax Shepard?

  Also, just drove back that night and then I started, then I launched a little theory. So it's virtually the exact same distance as it would be to Cedar Point from Detroit. And I was thinking, I wonder if there's some calculus and they know it scientifically, like it's three and a half hours is like the limit, maybe?

• 1:44:09Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:44:09Dax Shepard?

  That people drive to an amusement park. Like, do you think after four, it's like, fuck that, or five? I just think it's suspicious that some of these theme parks are built perfectly within like three and a half hours of a bunch of different cities.

• 1:44:24Speaker 01

  That is interesting, but you mean like for a day trip? Like it's the max you'd go for a day trip?

• 1:44:29Dax Shepard?

  Yes. Like, how far was it from Atlanta? Probably about three and a half hours?

• 1:44:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, Nashville is four hours. So, so I don't.

• 1:44:40Dax Shepard?

  But we drove three and a half east.

• 1:44:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. So I don't know.

• 1:44:44Dax Shepard?

  Atlanta to Dollywood. Four hours.

• 1:44:47Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:44:47Dax Shepard?

  Four hours and 12 minutes. Okay. So that might be outside of, people from Atlanta go to Dollywood?

• 1:44:53Speaker 01

  Uh, no. I mean, like normally you've been, but that's just because like you've been in Tennessee. But no, you wouldn't go like for the day to Dollywood.

• 1:45:03Dax Shepard?

  Right. Okay. Okay. What a place, though. What a place. You get to tour her tour bus, her Prevo's tour bus is there. You can get on board. Yeah.

• 1:45:13Speaker 01

  That's fun.

• 1:45:13Dax Shepard?

  And I was with these two little boys and four and six, and the four year old said, this way.

• 1:45:22Dax Shepard?

  This is where Dolly Parton poops.

• 1:45:25Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:45:26Dax Shepard?

  Looking at the toilet. Yeah, it's immediately where his mind went.

• 1:45:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:30Dax Shepard?

  Where Dolly had done some number twos.

• 1:45:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, the, the human brain is nasty and the human butt.

• 1:45:38Dax Shepard?

  It's a nasty brain, the human brain.

• 1:45:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have to piggyback on your Gatlinburg story.

• 1:45:45Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:45:45Speaker 01

  Um, I've also been to Gatlinburg my after freshman year. No, no, no, freshman year, college, spring break. Um, we went to a house in the mountains. And, you know, stayed there for spring break and it was, it was the first time I ever puked from drinking.

• 1:46:11Dax Shepard?

  Hmm.

• 1:46:11Speaker 01

  Was on that trip.

• 1:46:12Dax Shepard?

  That's a that long.

• 1:46:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, um, it, it was, it was so fun. We had the best time, but the, so the day after I puked from drinking, the ba- bad hangover day was the day we were going to Gatlinburg.

• 1:46:26Dax Shepard?

  Hmm.

• 1:46:27Speaker 01

  So we went into the town and like, you know, with all the ri- like little rides and fair stuff. And.

• 1:46:35Dax Shepard?

  It's like the most touristy town I've ever been to in my life, maybe. It's like a ti- if a gift shop was a town.

• 1:46:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's kind of like Helen in some ways.

• 1:46:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:46:45Speaker 01

  Um, but it had, you know, little rides and they had an Alpine sled.

• 1:46:50Dax Shepard?

  Yes, I saw it.

• 1:46:52Speaker 01

  Which you like just get on this little thing and then go down the slide, whatever. So all my friends did it and then I did it and I was so small that it wouldn't go. Like it was.

• 1:47:07Dax Shepard?

  You didn't have enough momentum and inertia and mass to.

• 1:47:11Speaker 01

  It was going so slow. There's this like in, in that friend group, this notorious picture of me going down the Alpine sled and there's a child behind me, right up against me. Like she went down and was then stuck behind me because I was crawling at a snail's pace.

• 1:47:31Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow. Were you embarrassed?

• 1:47:33Speaker 01

  Yes, of course.

• 1:47:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and hungover.

• 1:47:36Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:47:36Dax Shepard?

  Sweaty. It was probably hot.

• 1:47:37Speaker 01

  Yes, a lot going on.

• 1:47:39Dax Shepard?

  And how's it been back being back? How long were you gone in total? Three weeks?

• 1:47:44Speaker 01

  Almost three weeks and it was unexpected. And the East Coast summer, who knew it was gonna become a big old East Coast summer? And it was great. Um, I am really happy to be back. The weather's so nice here. Um, and

• 1:48:01Dax Shepard?

  What is it?

• 1:48:02Speaker 01

  It's in the eighties, but it's like, it's so nice.

• 1:48:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and it gets cool at night?

• 1:48:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, it really, the weather really can't be beat. Um, so I've just been gallivanting around here. Went to Houston's yesterday, delicious. Um, played Mahjong yesterday. I won one out of four games. And, uh,

• 1:48:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's been nice. It's been nice to relax. Oh, I've been watching a lot of TV. I, I, as I mentioned earlier, I'm rewatching Girls. Because I watched too much Lena's new show on Netflix. And I loved it. I loved it so much, too much. This is, it's kind of a you situation, you a show on Netflix.

• 1:48:49Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:48:50Speaker 01

  And, uh, it was, it was so good. I, I, I cried so much. It gave me so many feelings.

• 1:49:00Speaker 01

  Meg Salter, who's the lead, is incredible. She's so funny. She's so great. But also Will Sharp, who people might know from season two White Lotus. Um, he plays Aubrey Plaza's husband in that show. He's in this and he's like,

• 1:49:19Speaker 01

  A revelation. He's so good and so natural and so endearing. Oh my God, I just,

• 1:49:28Dax Shepard?

  Is he on the leaderboard for crushes?

• 1:49:31Speaker 01

  He's a, nah, he's a huge, yeah, he's on the board. Also, like Lena is so good at writing Male characters that are like, uh, definitely flawed, but you

• 1:49:49Speaker 01

  Really like them and you see their heart and it's, she's, she's so talented. She's just so talented.

• 1:49:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. So anyway, so then I've been rewatching Girls and that's been really fun because I realized when I first, when it first came out and I was watching it, I always had a little bit of anxiety watching, like I didn't love it. And now that I'm rewatching it, I realize it's because it was like too close. Like they're kind of flailing.

• 1:50:16Dax Shepard?

  Early, yeah, yeah.

• 1:50:18Speaker 01

  And I was flailing at that time. So it was a little like too real. And now I just think it's hilarious.

• 1:50:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Well, I'm excited to watch the new Lena show.

• 1:50:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I can't wait to hear your thoughts on it.

• 1:50:31Dax Shepard?

  Want to do some facts?

• 1:50:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's do it.

• 1:50:35Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 1:50:41Speaker 05

  Confidence, it's listening to your gut. It's moving forward even when the path ahead is unclear. For nearly 160 years, Pacific Life has helped people keep their promises, building confidence for generations. Whether you're confident in your financial future or just beginning to envision it, we're here to help. Ask a financial professional how. Pacific Life, the power of a promise. Pacific Life Insurance Company, Omaha, Nebraska. And in New York, Pacific Life and Annuity, Phoenix, Arizona.

• 1:51:17Speaker 01

  Facts for Shaq. I was trying to make it rhyme.

• 1:51:21Dax Shepard?

  Is this for Shaq?

• 1:51:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a very quick turnaround for this.

• 1:51:24Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:51:25Speaker 01

  So Rob took some notes.

• 1:51:26Dax Shepard?

  Shacks, some facts. He's big.

• 1:51:29Speaker 01

  It is a fact.

• 1:51:30Dax Shepard?

  Is that the first time you, well, you saw him on the, you didn't see him on the grid enough?

• 1:51:33Speaker 01

  I wasn't with you there.

• 1:51:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you were, but you weren't on the grid.

• 1:51:36Speaker 01

  I didn't go that day that you guys saw him.

• 1:51:38Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really?

• 1:51:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:39Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:51:40Speaker 01

  But I've never seen him in person and.

• 1:51:44Dax Shepard?

  It's overwhelming, right?

• 1:51:45Speaker 01

  It is like you, in your head, you're like, yeah, he's so tall. He's seven feet tall, seven feet tall, whatever. It is, it's overwhelming.

• 1:51:53Dax Shepard?

  That is the weird thing about height.

• 1:51:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:56Dax Shepard?

  Because like the difference between Jess and I is a mere two inches, three inches.

• 1:52:02Speaker 01

  That's.

• 1:52:02Dax Shepard?

  But it's asymmetric. Once you go above six two, it just starts getting exponentially more jaw dropping.

• 1:52:09Speaker 01

  I do think, I think it's after six feet. It start like each inch actually starts making a huge difference.

• 1:52:16Dax Shepard?

  Let's put it this way. The gap between you and I is bigger than the gap between Shaq and I.

• 1:52:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, that makes no sense.

• 1:52:23Dax Shepard?

  And doesn't it seem like there's nine inches or no a foot. So there's 11 inches difference between he and I. And there's 13 inches difference.

• 1:52:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, that makes no sense.

• 1:52:33Dax Shepard?

  I know there's something about when you look up, something gets disproportionate. I don't know.

• 1:52:36Speaker 01

  Cause you looked so short.

• 1:52:39Dax Shepard?

  Like a joke.

• 1:52:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, you look.

• 1:52:40Dax Shepard?

  Like a little baby man, a little girly baby man. I almost didn't want to interview him because I didn't want to look.

• 1:52:44Speaker 01

  No, you want to be small. You want to be held like a little baby, you said.

• 1:52:50Dax Shepard?

  He said when he walked in, because I was wearing a sleeveless shirt, he said, you've been hitting the gym. And I said, well, I knew you were going to emasculate me. So I had to come as swole as I could get.

• 1:52:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:00Dax Shepard?

  Now, the thing that got me, because I've A, seen him a few times, chatted with him a few times, and then been picked up by him.

• 1:53:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:07Dax Shepard?

  What I had missed on those previous encounters was the size of his hands.

• 1:53:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:13Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my lord.

• 1:53:14Speaker 01

  I didn't notice them, which is weird for me because I love hands.

• 1:53:18Dax Shepard?

  You're a hands person.

• 1:53:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I like hands.

• 1:53:20Dax Shepard?

  Hands gal.

• 1:53:21Speaker 01

  I'm a hands, handsy.

• 1:53:22Dax Shepard?

  Handsy. You're not very handsy, but you're a hands girl.

• 1:53:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, like mixed messages.

• 1:53:28Dax Shepard?

  But I do think the most jaw dropping thing is his hand size.

• 1:53:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's really cool.

• 1:53:34Dax Shepard?

  It is.

• 1:53:35Speaker 01

  And he, and he was fantastic.

• 1:53:37Dax Shepard?

  He just has a very sweet soul.

• 1:53:39Speaker 01

  He does. He has a good, he has, has a nice energy.

• 1:53:43Dax Shepard?

  Fought a ton in the NBA.

• 1:53:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, he's been in all kinds of scrapes.

• 1:53:48Speaker 01

  He has that thing. He, he's.

• 1:53:52Speaker 01

  Sweet, but he's scarier than I thought. Like, for some reason in my idea of him is that, oh, he's just so playful. He's just so funny and fun and playful.

• 1:54:03Dax Shepard?

  Well, you weren't watching a ton of his basketball games. You've been seeing his commercials.

• 1:54:06Speaker 01

  Right, right. And then I watched some of the doc. And when I watched the doc, I was like, oh, like, oh, he's more intense than I thought. And then when he was here at the beginning, I was, I was like, I'm intimidated.

• 1:54:19Dax Shepard?

  Well, he could kill you quite easily.

• 1:54:20Speaker 01

  I know. It's so, if he just like-

• 1:54:24Dax Shepard?

  Luckily, I've studied his fights and I know how to fight him.

• 1:54:27Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:54:28Dax Shepard?

  I gotta wrestle him because Barclay was much smaller than him. But Barclay immediately went for the knees and was able to get on top of him. I mean, that would be our, that would be our hail Mary pass.

• 1:54:36Speaker 01

  If he was trying to kill me.

• 1:54:37Dax Shepard?

  Is that I could somehow destabilize him and get him on his back like a beetle.

• 1:54:42Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:54:43Dax Shepard?

  And then you'd run.

• 1:54:46Speaker 01

  But you might be stuck, you might be stuck under there.

• 1:54:49Dax Shepard?

  The second you are out of the picture, I'll be, I'm so sorry. I was just trying to protect her. I love you. I would have never fought you.

• 1:54:55Speaker 01

  He would never hurt me.

• 1:54:57Dax Shepard?

  No, he wouldn't.

• 1:54:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, just icon. It's just one of those, one of those times where we get to be in the presence of a true legend.

• 1:55:06Dax Shepard?

  There are more famous people, but I would argue there's nobody on the planet who would get recognized more.

• 1:55:14Speaker 01

  And?

• 1:55:15Dax Shepard?

  Even if you like polled, how many people know Taylor Swift?

• 1:55:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:55:21Dax Shepard?

  And the number was bigger, he would get recognized 40x of what she'd get recognized.

• 1:55:26Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:55:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:27Speaker 01

  And I actually do think, I mean, I'm sure everyone knows Taylor, I'm sure. But Shaq crosses all the lines. Like, you can ask anyone. Like, I could tell my grandma.

• 1:55:40Dax Shepard?

  Yep.

• 1:55:41Speaker 01

  And she would know, I think. I would say, actually, he's probably top five most famous people we've had on this show.

• 1:55:48Dax Shepard?

  Oh, for sure.

• 1:55:49Speaker 01

  Which is incredible.

• 1:55:50Dax Shepard?

  Again, Brad Pitt's more famous globally, I'm sure. But if Brett, if we followed them around throughout the course of their life.

• 1:55:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:00Dax Shepard?

  Shaq would be dealing with more attention.

• 1:56:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think they might be.

• 1:56:04Dax Shepard?

  Andy has the thing that like comedians have. There's all these tiers of how approachable people are. Sitcom actors, you've been in their living room, they're funny. They seem ultimately approachable.

• 1:56:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:17Dax Shepard?

  Leonardo DiCaprio, you seem, you are probably nervous to go up to him.

• 1:56:21Speaker 01

  Movie stars, you're scared to go up to.

• 1:56:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, they see, but an athlete, Andy's in every commercial and in your living room, all that, yeah.

• 1:56:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. Podcasters are the most approachable.

• 1:56:33Dax Shepard?

  And as they should be.

• 1:56:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:35Speaker 01

  Because they're in your life in a really, really intimate way. They're in your head.

• 1:56:40Dax Shepard?

  I do want to express gratitude that we made the Time 100.

• 1:56:43Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:56:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:56:44Speaker 01

  Yes, Time 100.

• 1:56:48Dax Shepard?

  Best podcast of all time.

• 1:56:49Speaker 01

  Of all time.

• 1:56:50Dax Shepard?

  And I did the most embarrassing thing, which was my sweet agent Lance sent me a thing that said, congratulations and a link. And then I went to it, top 100, I see two dope queens, then I see another show or two, then ours. And I was like, oh my God, we're like third or fourth, whatever it was.

• 1:57:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:12Dax Shepard?

  I was like, couldn't believe it. I was like, this is wrong. Revisionist history should be number one.

• 1:57:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:18Dax Shepard?

  And then I realized it was alphabetical.

• 1:57:21Speaker 01

  Which I actually.

• 1:57:22Dax Shepard?

  What a relief.

• 1:57:23Speaker 01

  Liked. I'm so glad they did it that way because yes, also our publicist sent us the article and I went to, I clicked it to read what they said. They said a very nice thing.

• 1:57:36Dax Shepard?

  Really nice.

• 1:57:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:37Speaker 01

  And I was like, I don't want to see the number.

• 1:57:41Dax Shepard?

  Right. Cause it could immediately turn something wonderful into depressing. If you were a hundredth on the list, you'd be embarrassed.

• 1:57:49Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:57:50Dax Shepard?

  There's eight million podcasts.

• 1:57:51Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:57:52Dax Shepard?

  You'd still be embarrassed. The mind is not a friendly place.

• 1:57:55Speaker 01

  The mind really is not.

• 1:57:57Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 1:57:57Speaker 01

  And I, so then, but I just like, was kind of like glancing quickly and I was like, oh, I don't see a number. So maybe they didn't do it like that. And I was glad.

• 1:58:06Speaker 01

  But I'm really grateful. It's such a nice honor.

• 1:58:09Dax Shepard?

  It is.

• 1:58:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. Okay. So a couple of facts, a couple of shacks.

• 1:58:15Dax Shepard?

  Couple of shacks.

• 1:58:17Speaker 01

  Okay, so it was Sebastian Maniscalco who's working at the Four Seasons and that he was a great tipper and yet he would order a fruit plate and a coffee.

• 1:58:26Dax Shepard?

  Unexpected.

• 1:58:27Speaker 01

  And leave a hundred dollar tip. How many titles for Jerry West? Oh, and I need to thank Rob for this because Rob took these facts today because.

• 1:58:36Dax Shepard?

  He's in a foreign space. He's operating gear that's not ours.

• 1:58:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:58:40Dax Shepard?

  And he was fact checking.

• 1:58:41Speaker 01

  He had to fact check because we just did the episode.

• 1:58:45Dax Shepard?

  Rob's on a run.

• 1:58:46Speaker 01

  Okay, Jerry West, whose silhouette is used in the NBA logo, won the 1972 NBA championship with the Lakers as a player and eight additional titles as an executive with the Lakers and Golden State Warriors.

• 1:58:57Dax Shepard?

  So I was wrong. I'm glad, I'm glad I was wrong.

• 1:59:00Speaker 01

  And he was right.

• 1:59:01Dax Shepard?

  He was dead right. Couldn't be happier to be wrong about that.

• 1:59:05Speaker 01

  Um, okay. The poster for justification for higher education is really funny. It's a huge mansion and like.

• 1:59:13Dax Shepard?

  It's seaside, it looks like maybe Malibu or something.

• 1:59:16Speaker 01

  Yes, it does look like it's California. There's like a fancy car in the driveway.

• 1:59:22Dax Shepard?

  Let's see if I got the cars right. Turn it around so I can see. Cause I said it was a, I'm not gonna look. I said it was a Lamborghini, a Ferrari and a Porsche 911 Countach. And I think the Ferrari was a 308.

• 1:59:34Speaker 01

  Okay, you're gonna have to tell me if that's right. I have no idea.

• 1:59:38Dax Shepard?

  Okay, this has been updated. This is not the one we grew up with.

• 1:59:42Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 1:59:43Dax Shepard?

  Cause the Z8 didn't even come out till 2006 or something. Can I see if I can find it? I just want to, now I'm dying to know if I'm right.

• 1:59:49Speaker 01

  Here it is.

• 1:59:50Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Well, I'm completely wrong. Oh, I got a 308. There's a three, there's a Ferrari through, but then the Porsche is a 928. That's the risky business Porsche.

• 1:59:58Speaker 01

  Okay, but still a Porsche.

• 2:00:00Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, a Corvette. Congrats Corvette. I didn't know you made it in there. A convertible M3 and then a big Benz. So I didn't do so well. Less than half.

• 2:00:10Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:00:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:12Speaker 01

  That's.

• 2:00:12Dax Shepard?

  They should have put a Lamborghini Countach.

• 2:00:15Speaker 01

  Okay, how are you knowing it based? There's no, oh, the Mercedes, I guess, has a logo? Barely. The way this is. Um, painted out like you can't really see.

• 2:00:28Dax Shepard?

  Well, they've probably, well, they were definitely in breach of trademark. So yes, they've, they've, they've wiped out all the lettering on the back of these cars.

• 2:00:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you can still tell what they are.

• 2:00:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And that Benz is a SL 500, I think.

• 2:00:43Speaker 01

  Is the Benz the third one?

• 2:00:45Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 2:00:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:00:47Dax Shepard?

  And then to the right of that is an 86 convertible Corvette.

• 2:00:51Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:00:51Dax Shepard?

  And then, uh, I believe an M3 BMW convertible. And you can kind of maybe see the logo on the M3, their little circle by the, above the lights.

• 2:01:01Speaker 01

  I don't even know what an M3 is.

• 2:01:03Dax Shepard?

  Is it BMW? It's, um.

• 2:01:06Speaker 01

  What do I know about?

• 2:01:12Speaker 03

  The gymnastics.

• 2:01:13Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 2:01:14Speaker 01

  Thank you, Rob.

• 2:01:15Dax Shepard?

  Good job, Rob.

• 2:01:16Speaker 01

  That was nice, Rob. That's weird that you just brought that up. I, we were just talking about that in Nashville. I, I recited.

• 2:01:23Dax Shepard?

  You were telling Eric.

• 2:01:24Speaker 01

  I was telling Eric and I was able to say the names of the Magnificent Seven, 1996. Okay. Um.

• 2:01:31Dax Shepard?

  I got to just show off.

• 2:01:32Speaker 01

  It's not as good. I can't be as fast. Okay. Dominique Mochianu, Dominique Daws, Shannon Miller, Amy Chow, Amanda Borden, J C Phelps.

• 2:01:48Dax Shepard?

  Chi Chi Rodriguez?

• 2:01:49Speaker 01

  No, don't do that. Um, did I already say Dominique Daws?

• 2:01:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. You said two Dominiques.

• 2:01:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, there are two Dominiques, Shannon. Oh, Carrie Struck. How could I forget?

• 2:01:57Dax Shepard?

  The number one.

• 2:01:58Speaker 01

  I did it.

• 2:01:58Dax Shepard?

  Great job.

• 2:01:59Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:02:00Dax Shepard?

  Coached by Bella Legozzi. What's his name?

• 2:02:02Speaker 01

  No, Bella Coroli and Marta Coroli is the wife. See, I know. Okay. I know. Thanks. I'm good. She, he, they ended up pretty much getting canceled.

• 2:02:11Dax Shepard?

  They did.

• 2:02:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:13Dax Shepard?

  Because? Sexual impropriety or?

• 2:02:15Speaker 01

  Just too hard on them, but also they, they were close with, what's his name?

• 2:02:20Dax Shepard?

  Masser?

• 2:02:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. Like he kind of worked for them ish, like, you know? Okay.

• 2:02:30Dax Shepard?

  Although, I don't want to do that big of a niche. Because what I, what I don't like is when someone is found guilty of some impropriety and then all of a sudden, everyone around them was supposed to know and they're in trouble and they hate those people and all that. Like the whole guilty by association thing. I don't love.

• 2:02:49Speaker 01

  I agree. I don't love that.

• 2:02:53Speaker 01

  I do think, I mean, on all these docs and stuff like they were just really, for one, they were just really, really, really hard on the girls in a way that was seemingly very inappropriate.

• 2:03:06Dax Shepard?

  Ding ding ding.

• 2:03:07Speaker 01

  Shaq.

• 2:03:08Dax Shepard?

  Shaq, because they were successful, right?

• 2:03:10Speaker 01

  They were successful, but they came, you know, they came from Romania.

• 2:03:13Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:13Speaker 01

  They, um, they coached Nadia.

• 2:03:16Dax Shepard?

  Coleman each?

• 2:03:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Good job.

• 2:03:19Dax Shepard?

  Thank you.

• 2:03:20Speaker 01

  Do you want to, Mary Lou Retton?

• 2:03:22Dax Shepard?

  I love Mary Lou. She was in a ding ding ding, 1984 Corvette red in the McDonald's ad.

• 2:03:26Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:03:27Dax Shepard?

  The license plate said Mary Lou.

• 2:03:29Speaker 01

  The way all this is tying together.

• 2:03:31Dax Shepard?

  Maybe I died in that airplane disaster.

• 2:03:35Speaker 01

  Mary Lou, I think also maybe coached by them. And so they had, have this reputation and there, but I think it was, it was too much.

• 2:03:45Dax Shepard?

  Although a great counter to this is, and this is on topic. All these players get all this credit for these championships, Jordan, so and so. The real champion of all time is Phil Jackson.

• 2:04:00Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:04:00Dax Shepard?

  He has minimally nine between those two teams. I don't know if he has more.

• 2:04:05Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:04:05Dax Shepard?

  And he was not a blowhard yeller. He is a Buddhist. He was given, he gave Shaq a Nietzsche book to read.

• 2:04:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know. I love that. I love that.

• 2:04:18Dax Shepard?

  Thirteen.

• 2:04:19Speaker 03

  He was a player eleven.

• 2:04:21Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my God.

• 2:04:23Speaker 01

  When I was watching the Shaq doc and we got to the point of Phil Jackson, which I don't know much about. I mean, I know of him, but I was like, from the world.

• 2:04:35Dax Shepard?

  Well, and uh,

• 2:04:37Speaker 01

  Oh, Last Dance.

• 2:04:38Dax Shepard?

  Last Dance, yeah.

• 2:04:39Speaker 01

  But I was like, okay, this runs the risk of sounding like so egotistical. And I don't, I don't mean it like this, but I was like, I think, I think I, in this life, am not a Shaq or a Jordan or a Kobe. I feel like I'm more of a Phil Jackson. Like, I, I'm a part of big things and I think I'm an important, a very important part of big things.

• 2:05:16Dax Shepard?

  Intercal?

• 2:05:17Speaker 01

  Yes, but I'm not at the center. And I'm kind of guiding it sort of in the back.

• 2:05:26Dax Shepard?

  I don't identify with any of them.

• 2:05:28Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:05:29Dax Shepard?

  Like, I've just not been a big winner.

• 2:05:31Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:05:32Dax Shepard?

  I just don't.

• 2:05:33Speaker 01

  What do you mean? You're a winner now.

• 2:05:35Dax Shepard?

  Now in this space.

• 2:05:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:37Dax Shepard?

  And so if I had to pick, it would probably be Shaquille because he tried hard, but he didn't try as hard as Kobe or like Phil said in the doc. Shaq was great, but he should have won 10. I don't have that opinion, but, but, and, and, and I'm more like Shaq, like four is awesome. It's more than I intended.

• 2:05:59Speaker 01

  Yep, totally.

• 2:06:01Dax Shepard?

  And I don't want to be miserable for any goal. I don't have that constitution. I'm not that hard of a worker.

• 2:06:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:07Dax Shepard?

  Or I'm not that, yeah, I just don't have the desire to suffer for something.

• 2:06:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:13Dax Shepard?

  As much.

• 2:06:14Speaker 01

  I can see that about you. If I'm not him, I don't know enough about basketball players, but I, who's a basketball player? Well, I guess Shaq was not supposed to be good and then he was good. I kind of connect with that type of thing, but I am there to win and not have fun and suffer. And I'll do, I, I, yeah.

• 2:06:37Dax Shepard?

  Victory is the most important. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't have that.

• 2:06:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:43Dax Shepard?

  I have like the in the moment competitive nature where it's like if I'm on a motorcycle track or I'm in a corner in a car, I'll go for it.

• 2:06:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:51Dax Shepard?

  I don't want to be bested in that moment. But if I was in the

• 2:06:55Speaker 01

  Competitive.

• 2:06:56Dax Shepard?

  What's that?

• 2:06:56Speaker 01

  You're competitive.

• 2:06:57Dax Shepard?

  Very competitive.

• 2:06:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:58Dax Shepard?

  But I'm going out in Denver for playing there the night before.

• 2:07:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:07:04Dax Shepard?

  I'm gonna have fun. I'm gonna stay out late.

• 2:07:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:06Dax Shepard?

  I'm gonna wake up late. I'm gonna go to the game and do the best I can. My natural abilities pull me through, but I'm not.

• 2:07:15Speaker 01

  I don't think that's true. I don't think that's true because you here in this space in podcasting, if we have a big interview or something the next day, you're not like, I'm going out all night long.

• 2:07:29Dax Shepard?

  But I'm also 50.

• 2:07:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:31Dax Shepard?

  Right? So yeah, yesterday I was in New York all day long. I need to do one thing other than research Shack all day.

• 2:07:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:07:38Dax Shepard?

  Um, that part's true, but again, I'm 50.

• 2:07:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. You mean when you were younger.

• 2:07:44Dax Shepard?

  When I was, yeah, and these dudes are all 20 year olds.

• 2:07:47Speaker 01

  You know, it's ironic. I feel like I'm, it's swapping.

• 2:07:51Dax Shepard?

  You're learning to have more fun and be looser.

• 2:07:54Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm, I'm learning to be, I'm learning that I can do both, that you don't have to be this solo mission.

• 2:08:03Dax Shepard?

  Hold everything.

• 2:08:03Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 2:08:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Well, it's like learning. Well, I think that's accrued through experience. You, you do start to rely on yourself a little bit more. You have more confidence in yourself.

• 2:08:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:15Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 2:08:16Dax Shepard?

  And that's what's funny is both things are happening. Like I'm sure the interview would have been just as good if I just showed up. Like I probably know enough about Shack to have gotten through it. And then in some way, it might've been a different version of it.

• 2:08:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:28Dax Shepard?

  But I, yeah, I just wanted to have all the entire story.

• 2:08:32Speaker 01

  I also do, I, I think part of what this show benefits from is your research. Like you, not everyone, I mean, so I think a lot of people do research, but you're so smart that I feel like.

• 2:08:52Speaker 01

  You're giving some, your research is benefiting you and you're processing it in a way that a lot of other people can't do. And so you just showing up would be great, but it wouldn't be its highest potential without you applying your brain to the research.

• 2:09:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, what happens in the, the research is a red herring.

• 2:09:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:14Dax Shepard?

  The research is during the research, I go, oh, wow. He has the same relationship with his mom as I do.

• 2:09:19Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 2:09:20Dax Shepard?

  It's not really about when he got to the NBA or what round he got drafted, which is like threw up. And then it's like, oh, wow. Now here's something completely different between he and I. He really responds to a very authoritative presence in his life and I don't at all. I'm bad at that. So those things, the research is like, I don't know how to get to the real thing I care about without it.

• 2:09:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I think you are able to do a weaving. I mean, that's like, I don't do research. So I'm sitting there doing, I think what maybe a lot of other people do, which is

• 2:09:57Dax Shepard?

  Real time curiosity.

• 2:09:58Speaker 01

  Real time curiosity, which I'm glad we had that. But I think we need, I think the show is good because there's some structure and yeah.

• 2:10:07Dax Shepard?

  Well, thank you.

• 2:10:08Speaker 01

  You're welcome. Okay. Titles after Kobe and Shaq. Okay. So Shaq won NBA championship without Kobe, 2006. Kobe two championships without Shaq, 2009, 2010, and then together they had three.

• 2:10:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:27Speaker 01

  It's nice.

• 2:10:28Dax Shepard?

  They could have gotten, they could have gotten seven or eight. They were so fucking good.

• 2:10:34Speaker 01

  That's so sad.

• 2:10:35Dax Shepard?

  What's interesting is the research took me down all these Kobe rabbit holes. I just couldn't kind of resist. It was like, I would learn that Shaq got four and they're like, how many did Kobe get? Did he, I know Jordan gets, did Jordan is like, I'm just starting looking up all these other things. And then I found myself in this.

• 2:10:51Dax Shepard?

  Rabbit hole of Kobe. He fucking scored 81 points in a game. Like the only, Will Chamberlain scored 100, but he was literally a foot taller than everyone back then. He was so much stronger.

• 2:11:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:02Dax Shepard?

  He scored 81 in multiple games over 60 plus. And I mean,

• 2:11:08Speaker 01

  Unbelievable. Um, okay. Resto- oh, the businesses that Shaq owns. Okay. Big Chicken, Papa John's, he owns, he owns locations and he's, he was a brand ambassador of Papa John's. Krispy Kreme, Five Guys,

• 2:11:22Dax Shepard?

  In Atlanta.

• 2:11:23Speaker 01

  24 Hour Fitness. Oh, he owns some of those.

• 2:11:27Dax Shepard?

  Forty of them, I think.

• 2:11:28Speaker 01

  Forty in the Atlanta area. Um, Authentic Brands Group, JCPenney, Forever 21, Reebok, and 150 Carwashes. Wow.

• 2:11:39Dax Shepard?

  He has a, a ridiculous story. I don't know where I heard it. I've watched every doc and every podcast he's been in in the last five years, but he, he owned all these car washes and his business manager called him and said, "We're missing $250,000." Like we're light on the P and L statement. Like we're, someone is embezzled and he's like, "Oh no, I have all the quarters in my vault." He would go collect all the quarters in like pillowcases and stuff and just bring them to his house and put them in his safe.

• 2:12:12Speaker 01

  Oh my-

• 2:12:13Dax Shepard?

  And he had $250,000 in quarters that were just sitting-

• 2:12:15Speaker 01

  In quarters!

• 2:12:16Dax Shepard?

  And they're like, "Okay, well that's where the money's at."

• 2:12:18Speaker 01

  Oh my God. What an interesting man.

• 2:12:22Dax Shepard?

  That's one million quarters. I just did the math. Four times two.

• 2:12:24Speaker 01

  Good and fast man.

• 2:12:26Dax Shepard?

  Really easy, you fast man.

• 2:12:27Speaker 01

  Um, well, I, uh, I really, really enjoyed that.

• 2:12:31Dax Shepard?

  Me too.

• 2:12:32Speaker 01

  I'm glad we got to do it. I'm glad your plane didn't crash and we got to do it.

• 2:12:35Dax Shepard?

  Me too. All blessings to Shaq. What a sweetie pie.

• 2:12:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. That's it.

• 2:12:40Dax Shepard?

  All right.

• 2:12:40Speaker 01

  Okay, love you.

• 2:12:41Dax Shepard?

  Love you.