Jerrod Carmichael Returns

Jerrod Carmichael (Don’t Be Gay, Rothaniel, Poor Things) is an Emmy Award-winning comedian and actor. Jerrod joins the Armchair Expert to discuss the fascination with pushing our appearance to the absolute extreme, fans noticing he fixed his teeth between seasons of his sitcom, and tackling the burden of self-awareness in his new special. Jerrod and Dax talk about toeing the line between identity performance and authenticity, celebrating the achievements of human beings not despite but because of their imperfections, and his belief that everyone is in the closet about something. Jerrod explains striving in his recent work to be as introspective as he used to be guarded, the interesting knowledge and wisdom that can be shared as artists age, and why he really hopes we don’t lose our curiosity about one another. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ http://www.wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dax Shepard, joined by Monica Padman.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 0:05Dax Shepard?

  Hello. We have a returning guest today, Gerard Carmichael.

• 0:10Speaker 01

  One of our favorite first time appearances.

• 0:13Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and.

• 0:15Speaker 01

  This one delivers as well.

• 0:17Dax Shepard?

  Since then, he popped up in poor things, which was so fun.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 0:20Dax Shepard?

  On the count of three, Gerard Carmichael Rothaniel. We were talking about that with him last time. And Gerard, in Gerard Carmichael Reality Show, and of course, The Carmichael Show. He has a new comedy special out now on Max called Don't Be Gay.

• 0:38Speaker 01

  We love Gerard.

• 0:39Dax Shepard?

  We love Gerard.

• 0:41Speaker 01

  He's so easy to talk to. He goes deep.

• 0:43Dax Shepard?

  He's a special MF'er.

• 0:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:45Dax Shepard?

  Please enjoy Gerard Carmichael. We are supported by Audible. Thanks to Audible for being the presenting sponsor of today's episode. We could all use an escape these days, and the best way to do it, Audible. With over 1 million titles in their selection, there's more to imagine with Audible. We get support from Quince.

• 1:06Speaker 01

  Okay, can we talk about the fact that the holidays are already here? It's crazy. I feel like I blinked and now we're in gifting season, which I'm not really mad about because I do love giving gifts. And Quince is making it so easy to find something great for everyone on my list, including myself. Because let's be honest, self-gifting is a love language.

• 1:25Dax Shepard?

  Quince is seriously the gift that keeps on giving. Their high-quality staples are made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, 14-karat gold, and Italian leather. Full-on luxury quality at prices that won't wreck your holiday budget.

• 1:41Speaker 01

  It's the dream. The cashmere sweater, starting at $60, down jackets, wool outerwear, cashmere accessories. You and everyone on your list are staying cozy and looking incredible all season long.

• 1:52Dax Shepard?

  Well, I'm gonna tell you this, it just got chilly for the first time this year in California, and I'm so excited. And I'm wearing my Quince cashmere right now.

• 2:00Speaker 01

  It's great.

• 2:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and I am going to gift this to some of my friends. I hope they're not listening.

• 2:05Speaker 01

  Quince is also more than clothing. They've got fine jewelry for your significant other, leather bags for your bestie, hotel-quality bedding to set up your guest rooms, chef-grade cookware. That's an amazing thing they offer here. And it's such a good gift because people don't like buying cookware for themselves, but it's very important. And they also have five-star luggage, another good gift that people don't like buying for themselves.

• 2:27Dax Shepard?

  Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Armchair Expert. It's the best way to support the show. This episode is supported by Helix.

• 2:52Speaker 01

  Okay, can we talk about how November is basically survival mode? Between the holidays, the travel, the hosting, the cooking, the everything. Sleep is the one thing keeping me from completely unraveling.

• 3:02Dax Shepard?

  It really is the foundation. And I think people underestimate how much a bad mattress is quietly ruining their day. You wake up stiff, your back's angry, you're already behind before your feet hit the floor.

• 3:14Speaker 01

  That was me before Helix. I took their sleep quiz, which is so fast. It took me like two minutes. And they matched me to a mattress that actually fits how I sleep. Not a guess, not a firm or soft coin flip. It's a real match. I have a midnight mattress and I really like it. I was noticing it because I actually had to sleep in one of my other beds.

• 3:31Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  Recently.

• 3:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  That doesn't have a Helix mattress on it. And I really could tell a big difference in my sleep.

• 3:36Dax Shepard?

  Temperature was all over the map.

• 3:37Speaker 01

  It was a mess.

• 3:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  I need a new one.

• 3:39Dax Shepard?

  Look, they've got over 20 mattress models. So whether you sleep hot, need extra back support, or you've got a partner who moves around all night, there's one built for you. Plus, free shipping and a 365-night Happy with Helix guarantee. That's a full year to decide.

• 3:54Speaker 01

  Helix has been named the most awarded mattress by Forbes, Wired, and more. So it's not just us being enthusiastic. The experts agree.

• 4:01Dax Shepard?

  Right now, Helix is running their Black Friday sale with up to 30% off. Go to helixsleep.com/armchair for up to 30% off your Helix mattress. That's helixsleep.com/armchair for up to 30% off your Helix mattress. Helixsleep.com/armchair.

• 4:36Speaker 02

  Can I do some coffee? Is that an insane request?

• 4:39Speaker 01

  Yes, it's not.

• 4:40Speaker 02

  I haven't had coffee in a couple of days and I was afraid it was gonna make me like,

• 4:42Speaker 01

  Oh jittery.

• 4:43Speaker 02

  But I like something warm.

• 4:45Dax Shepard?

  How could you have not had coffee in a couple of days? Cause that tells me you do drink it, but also you might not drink it for two days. That's a very weird relationship with coffee.

• 4:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I kinda had a relationship with a lot of stuff. Like I stopped smoking weed two years ago, just on a whim.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  Willie Namor.

• 4:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was in Paris and I was like, I don't want this anymore. I just stopped.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 5:05Speaker 02

  But you're a coffee every day.

• 5:06Dax Shepard?

  Oh, several. We just had a doctor on who told us, thank God.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, he said, it's great for us.

• 5:11Dax Shepard?

  It's one of the great things you can do for yourself.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  Everything else was bad. Everything else you consume to a certain extent was a negative marker, but this was a positive one. So we always drink one in between, record, like we'll have one after.

• 5:24Dax Shepard?

  Sure, we try to do several.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  I have a tea in the, mine's a tea.

• 5:27Dax Shepard?

  But Monica's new to it and you guys are the same age. So this is interesting. You just turned 38?

• 5:31Speaker 02

  I just turned 38.

• 5:32Dax Shepard?

  April?

• 5:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, you're 38.

• 5:34Speaker 01

  I'm about to turn 38.

• 5:35Speaker 02

  How old are you?

• 5:36Dax Shepard?

  I'm 50.

• 5:37Speaker 02

  Oh, sweet.

• 5:38Dax Shepard?

  I'm 50.

• 5:39Speaker 02

  But you're like Hollywood vitamin drip in the gym. You're like the new 50 50, not the 50 of old days.

• 5:46Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes. My father at 50 and I are much different scenarios. But what is a real weakness in my routine is the face, which you just mentioned. I don't ever get facials. I probably gotta get on that. Cause the face is starting to wear a little bit, like a catcher's glove.

• 6:01Speaker 02

  You don't wanna go crazy on things, especially you wanna continue to act and stuff like that.

• 6:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, don't wanna look insane.

• 6:08Speaker 02

  It's unfortunate because acting is about expression and people's faces are not moving.

• 6:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:14Dax Shepard?

  A lot of folks' face are on hiatus during the performance.

• 6:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, that's really bad. That's not supposed to happen.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  Well, when I went to get Botox, my guy said, I'm gonna give you the, I forget, maybe it was like the actor's dose.

• 6:29Dax Shepard?

  Oh, it has a name.

• 6:30Speaker 01

  He had a name for it so that, can you see?

• 6:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, what if he's like, do you want Emmy, BAFTA, or Academy Award? That's the dose.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  EGOT, you get nothing.

• 6:40Dax Shepard?

  I gotta go no dose for EGOT.

• 6:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 6:42Speaker 02

  I mean, you look great.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 6:44Speaker 02

  But what inspired, I missed that episode. What inspired?

• 6:48Speaker 01

  Me getting it?

• 6:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:49Dax Shepard?

  You've missed a lot of episodes if you missed that.

• 6:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  Cause I'm probably talking about it a lot. So actually, I didn't go in there to get Botox. I went in there to get chin filler.

• 6:59Dax Shepard?

  Congratulations, which turned out lovely. She feels really good.

• 7:01Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  I've now had two rounds of chin filler.

• 7:04Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 7:05Speaker 02

  What does that do? Forgive me.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  No, no, it's.

• 7:07Dax Shepard?

  You're acting like you don't know. You know all this stuff.

• 7:11Speaker 02

  No, what I really know about is like what Michael Jackson did. Cause Michael Jackson was the extreme case.

• 7:18Dax Shepard?

  Nuclear option.

• 7:19Speaker 02

  Michael Jackson had a tattoo of a hairline. Like it was a black tattoo. He had pink tattooed lips. He got the cleft in his chin.

• 7:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, adorable.

• 7:26Speaker 02

  He got like the nose.

• 7:27Dax Shepard?

  And am I wrong? The nose ultimately came off entirely.

• 7:31Speaker 02

  If you read the autopsy, which I have.

• 7:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. They said that he was at the edge of the bed. His wig had fallen off and it was only sparse pieces of hair. And that his nose was not there. Really pushed to an extreme.

• 7:47Speaker 01

  Yes. Well, he pushed everything to an extreme.

• 7:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:50Speaker 01

  That's part of this whole being.

• 7:52Speaker 02

  I do love that man so much.

• 7:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I want you to land that plane and then I want to ask about Mike Jackson.

• 7:57Speaker 01

  This is so silly, but okay, so I hate my neck. So I went to a place.

• 8:01Dax Shepard?

  You might think it's about the chin. It's not about the chin.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  Exactly. I hate my neck. And so I was like, I want to get this thing called Kybella, which basically freezes the fat around your neck. So I went to go do that and they were like, oh, you actually don't have any. It looks like that because your chin is so small.

• 8:18Dax Shepard?

  They didn't use the word weak. I feel like a man, they would have said weak.

• 8:22Speaker 01

  And really got you on the hook.

• 8:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, like, oh, fuck, I look weak.

• 8:26Speaker 02

  I'm gonna say something that's gonna overstep.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  Say.

• 8:29Speaker 02

  I would like for you not to change.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  Well, I think that's very sweet.

• 8:32Speaker 02

  Only because the first time I was here, you were my big takeaway. I went back being like, oh, I love Monica. She's great. You're great too, but like, I really have a memory of you and your face and your smile. And all of it comes with it.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  Do you think it's different?

• 8:47Speaker 02

  No, no, no. And this will update the memory. No, no, but I'm saying I selfishly don't want you to change because I think you're beautiful and great. And not in the cliche, you're beaut- but just that you're your own thing.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  I really needed to hear.

• 9:01Dax Shepard?

  Did you today?

• 9:02Speaker 02

  I mean that, because like really, I love being like, Monica's great. I like really fall in love with.

• 9:07Speaker 01

  Well, the feeling's mutual. Me especially, I've been like, that's my, one of my. Okay, and Dax's.

• 9:13Speaker 02

  No, in all transparency, I got my teeth fixed. That was my first major purchase.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  Venieres?

• 9:19Speaker 02

  No, they redid the whole thing.

• 9:20Dax Shepard?

  Page one rewrite.

• 9:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, for the front row. And I did it in between seasons.

• 9:25Dax Shepard?

  For really quick, for the front row, implying you might have other rows.

• 9:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the front row, the front row, the visible seat.

• 9:32Dax Shepard?

  Back shark teeth are still fucked up.

• 9:34Speaker 02

  I did it between season one and season two. I had a sitcom on NBC and I changed it and then I checked Twitter, just like, oh no, I see, you know, like people just calling it out.

• 9:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that's brave to go mid-series.

• 9:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, mid-series.

• 9:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I almost wish you did it mid-episode.

• 9:49Speaker 02

  I know, I needed the money from season one to do it for season two. We all have a thing, so that is cool. I'm just saying specifically for you, you're so memorable and great.

• 9:59Dax Shepard?

  Can I suggest something, though, that feels transparent to me, which is, that's not a shocker to me that you were attracted to her.

• 10:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:06Dax Shepard?

  Because I think you see in her immediately someone who was also hiding.

• 10:10Speaker 02

  Really? Tell me more about this.

• 10:11Speaker 01

  Well, hiding, hiding.

• 10:14Dax Shepard?

  Hiding in plain sight.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think in plain sight because I grew up in Georgia and I hated being brown so much. I was constantly trying to assimilate into white culture.

• 10:25Dax Shepard?

  The white girls.

• 10:26Speaker 01

  Be so white. Actually, I mean, not to like jump so far ahead, but here we are. You're special. We'll get to it, but when I watched it, this new one, I was like, I really understand what he's doing. Because I'm the same. Now, I'm like, I'm not gonna assimilate, I'm not gonna do just what you want me to do because you're the hegemonic group. I'm now swung so far on the other side that I feel like no one's gonna put me in that box again. And I feel like you have that as well.

• 10:59Speaker 02

  Trying to compete, you know, the hard thing. For me, I'm sure you felt this way. It's the burden of self-awareness, being aware of how you sound versus how someone else sounds, how you move, what you like, what your interests are versus someone else being black. You're taught this isn't your world. You have to be aware of yourself and you're kind of representing a lot of other people in all of your actions. So that's a lot to put on a person, you know, on a child and a lot to carry, like a lack of freedom.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 11:29Speaker 02

  I found myself recently being jealous. Certain people are very free and I get a little jealous of that. I want to be free.

• 11:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you never had the luxury of doing so.

• 11:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:38Dax Shepard?

  I want to make a prediction guess, which is, okay, so when Bendit Like Beckham came out for Monica, you would imagine from the outside, an outsider like me would go like, oh, she must have loved that. There's an Indian girl in a movie that's popular and this will help people accept me.

• 11:51Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 11:52Dax Shepard?

  And she was like, get that fucking movie out of the theater. I don't want anyone talking about Indian stuff.

• 11:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 11:57Dax Shepard?

  And I'm wondering, when you were in your hiding phase and Brokeback comes out, you might think.

• 12:01Speaker 02

  Oh, I was nowhere near Brokeback.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  Right?

• 12:03Dax Shepard?

  Right. Were you like, get that movie the fuck out of the conversation?

• 12:06Speaker 02

  Well, because I was also doing what the other boys were doing. I was mocking gay guys.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 12:12Dax Shepard?

  As you say, throwing grenades in other directions.

• 12:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, look over there. Like, I'm with y'all. I wouldn't have had like a close gay friend out of fear of association.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 12:22Dax Shepard?

  She didn't want to be with any of the other Indian kids.

• 12:24Speaker 01

  I'm not that.

• 12:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  There's just so much, I'm not that, I'm you, I'm you, I'm you, I'm you. And then at some point, you get really good at it. I mean, now I think it's good, but over the past 10 years, there's been a real reconciliation for me about who am I for real?

• 12:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  Because I spent so long doing that, that that's kind of real, right?

• 12:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  I am very white in a lot of ways.

• 12:49Speaker 02

  I say that about my own accent. In eighth grade, I changed my accent because I heard Meryl Streep say an actor shouldn't have a distinct accent. And so I tried to get rid of my accent. And I still sound southern, I think, in certain words, but my speech has changed completely. I look at old home videos and I sound nothing like how I sounded as a child. Is this put on?

• 13:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, freaky.

• 13:11Dax Shepard?

  Where is the line and you do the thing and then it changes you and you like some of the stuff, but then you have some weird shame about liking.

• 13:17Speaker 02

  Who did you model yourself after?

• 13:20Dax Shepard?

  Nicolas Cage. What I was so attracted to is the thing we're all talking about, which is this is seemingly a guy who's got zero fear about being as weird as he wants to be. And he somehow brought everyone along with him. He's a star of these movies, but he's fucking out there. Every performance is like, this guy's doing stuff that no one's doing. So I was just like, I feel like a weirdo. I feel like an outsider. He felt very punk rock and not one of the dudes in the lockers in high school. I was like, okay, that's my dude.

• 13:45Speaker 02

  That's interesting. Who are you? Who were you trying to?

• 13:48Speaker 01

  That's the problem. I wanted to be Natalie Portman.

• 13:53Dax Shepard?

  Or Jennifer Aniston.

• 13:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. And really I should have been wanting to be like Lisa Kudrow. Not look wise, but that's more me actually, like funny and playful and that type of thing. But I didn't want that. I wanted to be the ingenue.

• 14:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 14:08Speaker 02

  And so how does that affect, was that in appearance, was it in voice? Cause I'll tell you, so Jay-Z's my idol.

• 14:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, we love Jay-Z.

• 14:14Dax Shepard?

  Same, we share this.

• 14:15Speaker 02

  And my accent is from emulating Jay-Z. I have an older brother who has been listening to Jay-Z since.

• 14:21Dax Shepard?

  And he's seven years older than you, right?

• 14:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, seven, eight.

• 14:24Dax Shepard?

  Seven to 10 years older.

• 14:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was born in 78, I was born in 87. And loved Jay-Z, was an early adopter of Jay-Z in North Carolina back when Reasonable Doubt was on Priority Records. And I learned all Jay-Z lyrics. I'm so thankful to have Jay-Z as a role model. And I would adapt my clothing, my look. And I was a teenager during the age of good costume, because people had clothing lines and rock wear and Sean John. I could put that on, which I liked. I wanted to be cool, but I could sound like Jay-Z. And I have a big brother, so I had someone to mimic in the house. So I could wear his cologne and literally wear his clothes, sound like him and adopt his interests.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  He was test running for you, like, oh, that's cool. So I'll just do what that's doing.

• 15:05Speaker 02

  And went to the same school. So even some teachers remember my brother.

• 15:09Dax Shepard?

  Where was he at on the social hierarchy? What niche was he in?

• 15:12Speaker 02

  My brother was pretty cool. My brother was an athlete. All the kids in the neighborhood loved him. People came to our house. My brother was pretty cool. My father is really cool too. That was. Kind of a burden. My family's like really cool, very well liked.

• 15:26Dax Shepard?

  Man.

• 15:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, men. It was almost like being Black Hood Barry Moores or something.

• 15:31Dax Shepard?

  I would say it's a double whammy because you have this secret that's gonna make you not a man.

• 15:35Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 15:35Dax Shepard?

  And then on top of it, the measuring stick is quite high in the house. You gotta be kind of an elder. You gotta be like a leader.

• 15:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, you gotta be cool, whatever that means.

• 15:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, if you had like kind of a geeky accountant dad, you'd have been like, yeah, I'm not gonna live up to this.

• 15:48Speaker 02

  Or I could beat that.

• 15:50Dax Shepard?

  I might blow by him in the cool.

• 15:52Speaker 02

  But that's cool. And reminded us he was cool. Told stories of fights he got in.

• 15:57Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 15:57Speaker 02

  Preach. All the girls he got.

• 15:59Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I'd love to have coffee with him.

• 16:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, he's great. And I actually just had a recent thing because I was going back when I made a reality show and I was looking at all these old photos and videos and stuff of my parents and I'm like, oh, my parents were hot. Yeah. My mom's gorgeous.

• 16:15Dax Shepard?

  She was always so religious or did it increase over time?

• 16:19Speaker 02

  I saw a change to like more and more. Also now I'm at this place where I understand the need for it. I think she's like really pushed in the arms of God, the man from other men in her life. From like her father, my dad, needing just a man that she could completely trust and rely on. And so I have more understanding for my mother now. What pushed her into that? But gorgeous and didn't think she was gorgeous because she's dark skinned, wanted lighter skin because that was a part of what she would say, like the look and didn't appreciate how truly beautiful she was and is. No, my parents were hot.

• 16:55Speaker 02

  Very hot.

• 16:55Dax Shepard?

  Okay, now so back to Michael.

• 16:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, Michael Jackson.

• 16:58Dax Shepard?

  When I'm watching your stand up specials, Rothaniel and then now Don't Be Gay, I deeply see people that are holding a big secret. I know the agony of it and I have a lot of compassion for people, even if I have total judgment of what they did. I look at Michael Jackson and as someone who was molested and I look at the age of these kids, I'm like, it is fucking as dark as it possibly could get. And also what a miserable experience on planet earth to be living with that predilection. I can also see the suffering and I have compassion for the suffering.

• 17:31Speaker 02

  Michael is kind of a lesson, especially for now, where like Michael Jackson's absolutely a pedophile.

• 17:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  I'm not one of those like apologists.

• 17:40Dax Shepard?

  He was a kid, but he wasn't though.

• 17:42Speaker 02

  No, no, because it's important to hold complexity that is lost now. You don't have to say he was not in order to say, don't stop till you get enough.

• 17:52Dax Shepard?

  He's the greatest musician of all time.

• 17:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 17:54Dax Shepard?

  Both can be true.

• 17:55Speaker 02

  And it's complex in life is full of these complexities sometimes. Like somebody should write a children's book about Michael Jackson.

• 18:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, about duality.

• 18:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, like the king who was a monster because I see that a lot. And even in my own life, I'm not even trying to just be accusatory, but it's easy to separate things into good and evil and go, okay, well, this person's good and this person's evil. And Michael Jackson was the best performer, an incredible musician.

• 18:19Dax Shepard?

  You watch that doc, The Most Important Night in History, or whatever that doc was.

• 18:23Speaker 02

  Oh, I didn't see that.

• 18:24Dax Shepard?

  You have to.

• 18:25Speaker 02

  I gotta watch it. I just hate We Are the World.

• 18:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 18:27Speaker 02

  I hate that song.

• 18:28Dax Shepard?

  I hated it.

• 18:29Speaker 02

  I hate that song. It's too many voices.

• 18:30Dax Shepard?

  I hated it. And I was like, this is too saccharine and soft and it's not for me. When I was a kid, I hated it. But what you will love about it.

• 18:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, I like to see him work.

• 18:38Dax Shepard?

  You have to because you're seeing incredible people. Darryl Hall's first attempt at this hard thing, one take and Quincy's like, yeah, perfect. Moving on. You have perfect pitch. Great. And then Lionel Richie at his height of his powers and Stevie Wonder and to see what Stevie Wonder can do with Bob Dylan's voice.

• 18:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:56Dax Shepard?

  It's all wild. And then Michael Jackson steps up and starts singing and you go, oh my God, even in this room.

• 19:02Speaker 02

  No, he's a star among stars.

• 19:04Dax Shepard?

  This guy is.

• 19:05Speaker 02

  Quincy Jones is so cool because Quincy pull people together. There's this Donna Summer song called State of Independence. In the background of the song, there's just a chorus of people going shababadi, shababada. There's a making of video on YouTube where Quincy Jones brings in Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder.

• 19:23Dax Shepard?

  Michael McDonald.

• 19:23Speaker 02

  Michael McDonald. All these people are just singing backing vocals. It's incredible. I think uncredited backing vocals, but Quincy Jones is so brilliant. He's so good.

• 19:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 19:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. But no, Michael Jackson is just an example of a lot of things. I'm of that mindset because like Martin Luther King. King has taken on the kind of Christ like role of morality for the black community.

• 19:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, he's a deity now.

• 19:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, and there is an effort by people to either suppress. I mean, he's one of the greatest, most powerful courageous men in history. Yeah. And yet, he also was a man.

• 20:00Dax Shepard?

  He was in orgies.

• 20:01Speaker 02

  Obviously, I have a thing for revealing secrets, so who am I to reveal his secrets? But at the same time, what I think is important to learn is that he was a man who made mistakes. Yeah. Or maybe not even mistakes, followed impulses, made choices.

• 20:16Dax Shepard?

  You might not like those choices.

• 20:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, you might not like those choices, but he still is a great person and reached a potential that was excellent. Not despite, but also in some ways because of his imperfections, if you want to call them that. I think it's important to celebrate both in a person.

• 20:33Dax Shepard?

  Yes, I will be the first to say, there seems to be a total lack of acceptance. There's a naivete, like a chosen naivete, to think you're going to get exactly what you want, and it's going to be in the package you want it. The Picasso is going to look how you want it to look, and he's going to have acted the way you wanted. And I always bring this up, but like, we don't do that in science. If you come up with theory of relativity, we don't give a fuck what you did, we're going to use that.

• 20:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:59Dax Shepard?

  It benefits us, but we don't seem to think the benefit of the art, that we need to make that distinction. And also, I am someone who's done tons of shady things.

• 21:11Speaker 02

  List all of them right now.

• 21:12Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 21:14Dax Shepard?

  It would be three, four hours.

• 21:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 21:16Dax Shepard?

  I'm incentivized for you to have that worldview. I want you to accept people as flawed, because I'm really flawed. I would benefit from that. Like, when you self-evaluate, do you bring that in as like, yeah, and I'm also a creative motherfucker who can manipulate a lot of stuff? And am I just paving the way for me to be exactly who I want to be?

• 21:34Speaker 02

  A lot of artists were these people who had a strong image of themselves and really created their own lives. Now, I think what's difficult is that the line between artist and audience is so blurred that everyone feels a part of the process and of the making and of the human. Being and so it's easy to forget that some of the best artists, the reason they are artists is because they are so different from everybody else. They are so different than everyone in their environment that you want to actually place them on the stage and observe them. And like their art is their own observations about themselves and their lives. That's part of the separation. It's like, yeah, you wouldn't have done the bad things Michael Jackson did. You also wouldn't have done the good things. Right.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 22:18Speaker 02

  He was himself. That's what we were interested in is how unique and novel the whole thing was. Yeah.

• 22:24Speaker 01

  I know what you're saying. Like, are we incentivized for the world to accept flaws because we're very flawed? But everyone is flawed. No one doesn't have a secret. I don't think, I really don't.

• 22:37Speaker 02

  Well, that's what I wonder. Mm hmm. My belief is that everyone is in the closet about something.

• 22:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:41Speaker 02

  And that there is something that you may hold about yourself that you are ashamed of. Yeah. That you would rather not tell the world, rather not show the world, and it's locked away inside and you try and keep that away. Something that's influenced by your environment, your parents, your religion, your family, your wife, your children, your husband, whoever, that you feel is not right. Some fraudulence. But really an unlovable part of ourselves that we lock away. And that's what distances you from other people. And it's also what can cause you to condemn other people. I believe that most of what we're saying is always about ourselves. The condemnation is a self condemnation. I always hate the people that are like me the very most.

• 23:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course. I'm always trying to understand what motivates me, what motivates certain behavior. I recently made a reality show about it. Like a lot of my stand up is about these complicated areas. Because I find it interesting and really my recent work is in response to the first, let's say even 30 years of my life, where it was really about secrecy and hiding certain things about myself and throwing grenades and those types of things. And now I want to be as introspective as I was guarded. And with introspection, you know, it's complicated. So the thing that I was relating to but could be totally projected. Tell me.

• 24:02Dax Shepard?

  Is I am quick to out myself, I think in general, because shame is such a huge motivator for me. But I have a stubbornness that's almost more of a motivator, right? So I refuse to let you be in a position to shame me. I will tell you everything and I will take that away from you. And that's like weirdly my stubbornness, right? Or my unwillingness to be controlled. And so that line is sometimes blurry. Does that make sense?

• 24:34Speaker 02

  Where you feel like you're.

• 24:36Speaker 01

  Being honest versus getting ahead of it?

• 24:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, that in itself becomes a wall. Like that becomes your defense mechanism to not be seen.

• 24:43Dax Shepard?

  Like if I do anything that I think is worthy of being seen, A, I want to be acknowledged for it. And then B, I tell myself it could be helpful and all these different things. And that is all true. And also there's some other motivation going on with me at all times.

• 24:58Speaker 02

  That's why I'm just being in tune with like whatever the intention is, right? Cause there is a version of being a victim and lying prostrate. And then that becomes your identity and nobody wants a puddle.

• 25:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, right, right, right, right.

• 25:10Speaker 01

  The introspection can hit a point. You put on this identity that I hate to be taken advantage of, right? Like that's one of Dax's identities. So then if you're like, oh, I figured it out. It's because I don't want to be taken advantage of because of my past. Then you start seeing the world through that very specific lens. And then that can be dangerous in itself because then it's almost a self fulfilling prophecy.

• 25:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you want to be able to use it to calm yourself down like, oh, this is that old thing.

• 25:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:35Dax Shepard?

  And then you'd want to put it down to not define who you're going to be going forward.

• 25:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:39Dax Shepard?

  That's kind of tricky.

• 25:40Speaker 01

  It's hard.

• 25:41Speaker 02

  It is tricky. I've been trying to let go. I've been listening to this audio book called Letting Go by David R. Hawkins. And I really, really love it because it is such a complicated jumble of thoughts up here. And I've been trying to like think less. I want to apply thought to work, but I like to just in life.

• 26:01Dax Shepard?

  Take a fucking break.

• 26:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, and be less judgmental about all the thoughts and just be and kind of operate with love. I've been trying to do that more and more. Peace, really. The goal cuz you don't have to say anything. You don't have to put anything out there. I just wanna exist with my friends and my family. Yeah. So do you have a fear that it's antithetical to work and being productive? I have that feeling sometimes where you see certain people later in their career, like their kumbaya years aren't as interesting. Like I want like Eminem on pills mad at his mom. Sure. Recently cheated on. Yeah, yeah, you do want that. I think you just kinda offer something else. My boyfriend loves aging artists.

• 26:41Speaker 02

  He loves writers like Philip Roth, who does his best work in his 50s, 60s, even into his 70s. He loves Scott Walker. He loves Bjork. Loves Bjork. And we just watched Cornucopia, the film, and I took him to Italy to see her live. I mean, he'd seen her live five or six times. She's offering what she's offering. Going back to even Jay-Z as that example, cuz Jay-Z is one of the few rappers who has made aging graceful and interesting. Yeah. Because as a Jay-Z fan, the man who made Big Pimpin' also made 444. And that's very, very interesting because it's like, okay, you show me what you were dealing with and afraid of

• 27:21Speaker 02

  and angry about in your 20s, and you show me like the celebration in your 30s and 40s. And now he's showing reconciliation with family in his 50s, and that's so interesting. There is something to offer because hopefully your audience will age. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Part of that is we are inclined to make art for teenagers because they are the loudest voice. Yeah, you feel like if they're not on to you, then you're dead. That's what makes me cool. And that angst goes away. It should. But it's replaced by something else that is interesting. And I'd like to hear a wise person's take on how to be a good member of their family, how to exist in the world, political ideas.

• 28:04Speaker 02

  There's a wealth of knowledge to be shared that isn't just breaking windows and throwing chairs and the angst. Cuz if you're still that, that's why Jay-Z was cool because there were rappers in their 40s still talking about selling drugs or being in the club. Don't you live in Calabasas? Yeah. You know what I mean? Like. It becomes an.

• 28:21Dax Shepard?

  Authentic.

• 28:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, but it's just not offering the best of themselves. The best of yourself is something that you have been thinking about and can offer wisdom or an explanation of or an exploration of in your life. That's your role as an artist.

• 28:35Dax Shepard?

  Lower stakes. That's what I think of. In a way, what I want for myself is contentment, acceptance.

• 28:41Speaker 02

  To me, that's the highest.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  The highest stakes.

• 28:44Speaker 02

  Here's the thing, it's lower drama. Teenage and early 20 drama is so sexy. Cause really the threat is they're gonna kill themselves. They're gonna kill someone else.

• 28:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:54Speaker 02

  Kind of this threat of violence, but I don't know, man, I've had to like reveal something to my boyfriend and then eat dinner with him and that is.

• 29:03Speaker 02

  That's high drama. That's insane. Having conversations with my aging parents. That's high stakes drama too. It just looks different.

• 29:11Dax Shepard?

  You're right. It's just earlier times is tumultuous breakups and getting fired and all these things.

• 29:16Speaker 02

  When you're young, love feels like it's insane and it's this rush and it's like this passion. And you can go through a breakup every three months with the same person.

• 29:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 29:26Speaker 02

  You're throwing stuff against the wall. But then there is, I was actually just talking about the scene in Network. Where the producer fell in love with a younger producer and his wife found out about it. And there's this beautiful scene. The actress actually might have won the Oscar for, she's on screen for like four minutes. Am I supposed to play the part of the doting wife while you pursue your winter passion? High drama for like these people that have spent 40 years together. I look at my parents, the stakes of my parents' marriage, secrets and things like that, that we held on to my father for 40 years. Glorify that. That's insane.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 30:00Speaker 01

  But it's the parts that I think people are afraid to hear about or see. But three month breakup, everyone can sort of relate and like, oh, that's cute.

• 30:08Speaker 02

  You barely cared about this person.

• 30:10Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 30:10Speaker 02

  They didn't even meet your mom.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  The stakes are actually low. That's why we can. Watch it and not feel scared. When you watch that and you're like, oh my God, a 40 year relationship that could end in a second or pull one thread and the whole thing's gone. That's so scary.

• 30:26Speaker 02

  And richer. My parents are still together because they have such a history and like, she's invested so much time in this person and now my father is Parkinson's and she's like his caretaker.

• 30:38Speaker 01

  Heavy.

• 30:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, heavy.

• 30:40Dax Shepard?

  Don't be gay is phenomenal. I gotta say, of the people that are seemingly being very honest about themselves, this is like a very much a high watermark to be able to out yourself for all this stuff that people are going to judge. It's so impressive.

• 30:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, because it's not shocking and that you're calling out, you're not talking about other people, you're talking about yourself.

• 31:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, there's like pseudo self deprecating and then there's like real self deprecating and this was real. The journey we're on, and this takes us to the last time we interviewed you, which is, Rauthan, you had just come out, had one on MEF, but it'd come out, you're about to host SNL, you know, but Poor Things, which I loved, by the way, that was my favorite movie of the year. It was so fun to see you in that.

• 31:23Speaker 02

  Emma is incredible.

• 31:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, she's a gangster.

• 31:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, and Chris Abbott was great in that too.

• 31:28Dax Shepard?

  So the reality show hadn't aired yet.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  When we talked to you. Was I making it? I'm trying to remember exactly the timing of it all.

• 31:34Dax Shepard?

  It was almost three years ago to the day. It was like May of 2020.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 31:38Speaker 02

  Oh, so I wasn't making it yet. I started making it around the time of the Emmys.

• 31:42Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so you made that show and in the special, you talk about having gone online immediately after.

• 31:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:52Dax Shepard?

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. Let's take a minute to thank our presenting sponsor, Audible. With Audible, the leading audio entertainment app, it's easy to discover new stories and ideas while going about your day.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, and with over a million audiobooks, Audible originals and more, it's basically impossible to run out of things to listen to. Plus, there's just something about audio storytelling that hits a little different.

• 32:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it really does, especially Audible originals that feature performances from celebrities and top voices. It's like watching a movie in your head. Uh, one on my list is Treasure Island.

• 32:31Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 32:32Dax Shepard?

  Uh, which is an Audible original drama. It's a timeless tale of pirates, lost treasure, maps and mutiny. What more could you need?

• 32:39Speaker 01

  That sounds really fun. I'm more of a psychological thriller girl.

• 32:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you're dark.

• 32:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm, I'm dark and I'm broody. And I've been hearing all about the author, Freedom McFadden. And I love that I can listen to her audiobooks on the Audible app when I'm commuting, taking my wogs, as you know, or just like doing laundry and chores.

• 32:58Dax Shepard?

  Well, with Audible, you can find the genres you love and discover new ones. There's more to imagine when you listen. And to make it even better, Audible has a special offer for arm cherries. Sign up for a free 30 day Audible trial and your first audiobook is free. Visit audible.com slash DAX. That's audible.com slash DAX. We get support from our sponsor, Lilly. For adults with obesity or with excess weight and weight-related medical problems, it's time to find out about Foundo or for Gleepran. Foundo is a once daily prescription GLP-1 medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off.

• 33:43Speaker 03

  Foundo should not be used with other GLP-1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Foundo is safe and effective for use in children. Don't take Foundo if you're allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had majorary thyroid cancer or multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type two. Stop and call your doctor right away if you have an allergic reaction, a lump or swelling in your neck, or severe stomach pain. Serious side effects may include inflamed pancreas and gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes, if you're nursing, pregnant, plant to be, or taking birth control pills, and before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. Taking Foundo with an insulin or sulfonylurea may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include... include diarrhea, nausea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and may cause kidney problems. Once Daily Foundo is available by prescription only in 0.8 mg, 2.5 mg,

• 34:28Speaker 03

  5.5 mg, 9 mg, 14.5 mg, and 17.2 mg tablets. Learn more at foundo.lily.com or call 1-800-LILY-RX. Now is perfect to talk to your doctor about Foundo.

• 34:40Dax Shepard?

  This episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. Look, I have my dream job. I get to talk to folks I admire like crazy and ask them virtually any question that I want to. I can't imagine a better way to spend my time. But even dream jobs have some not so dreamy parts. The stuff that gets in the way of the actual work. Now that's where ServiceNow's AI specialists come in. They don't just tell you what you should do about your busy work. They actually do it, start to finish. Cases closed, requests handled, no extra work for you. So you and your team can focus on what matters most, which for me is, are they obsessed with male bodies on the same level as I am?

• 35:23Speaker 01

  They never are.

• 35:24Dax Shepard?

  To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com. We get support from Instagram teen accounts. So we talk a lot on this show about how the world is different now than when we were growing up. And one of the biggest differences is obviously social media. And I think a lot of people wonder, okay, what's actually being done to make it safer for teenagers?

• 35:46Speaker 01

  Which is a fair question.

• 35:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so Instagram has got something called teen accounts, and they come with automatic protections built in by default. So anyone between 13 and 17 is automatically placed into this experience. They get age-appropriate content settings, contact limits, so that by default, only people they're already connected to can message them. And time management tools, daily time limit reminders, and also sleep mode that mutes notifications from 10 p.m. to 7 a.m.

• 36:13Speaker 01

  Sleep mode is genius.

• 36:14Dax Shepard?

  Right? And here's the thing, for anyone under 16, a parent has to give permission to change any of those settings to be less strict. The guardrails are on and Instagram keeps building new safety features to create age-appropriate experiences for teens.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  I am really glad Instagram's helping to give parents peace of mind with teen accounts.

• 36:34Dax Shepard?

  Learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work to protect teens online at instagram.com/teenaccounts. We get support by Peloton. You know that feeling when you're spiraling over a problem and you just can't figure it out? When that happens to me, I need a change of pace and I've found that running is the best way. It takes my brain out of the driver's seat and I come back with a fresh perspective. Running can be freeing and cathartic and Peloton helps you feel all of that. And now that feeling fits wherever you need it with the new Peloton Tread Flex. It's movable and foldable, designed to fit your life. So next time you feel stuck, you can go for a run literally anywhere, whether that's in your office, living room, or even the attic. Plus,

• 37:19Dax Shepard?

  they have classes with expert instructors and programs to meet you at any level and keep you moving. Let yourself run. Explore the new Peloton Tread Flex at onepeloton.com.

• 37:37Dax Shepard?

  So let me just hear what your hopes were for it, if any, and then how did that sync up with what the results were?

• 37:46Speaker 02

  I was going through a lot of things in my life and also felt like documenting it was important because I just hadn't seen it and I wanted to do it for myself and put it out into the world. It's funny because I opened up the special just talking about the response, reading things online, which is incredibly addictive. It's difficult not to do that. I haven't been doing it with this special. Actually, for myself, I have to not do it to be able to Offer a better version of myself to the audience.

• 38:17Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 38:18Speaker 02

  Because good or bad, that's the thing that I've learned just even like searching really nice comments and like really good things, which is hard because you get frozen into people's idea of yourself.

• 38:29Speaker 01

  This is what they like about me.

• 38:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's like when you tell a good story, you go, oh, I gotta go to a

• 38:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's how you get stuck. I think it's really, really important for an artist, especially actors and comedians, any artist, not to do it because even the praise is not healthy.

• 38:46Dax Shepard?

  It's bad, too.

• 38:47Speaker 02

  But also what didn't feel great criticism is devastating.

• 38:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So you said on a talk show, I think it's both more true than it's not. And also I thought, no, no, you go every one of these actors that's like, I never read anything about myself. You're like, they're bullshit. So I think that's both true. Way more people read about themselves than they say they do.

• 39:09Speaker 02

  How can you not?

• 39:10Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 39:10Speaker 02

  The world is talking about you and it's in your pocket.

• 39:12Dax Shepard?

  I think a lot of us have learned not to. So I don't think a lot of us don't.

• 39:15Speaker 02

  No, here's the thing. Everyone does. You can get so burned by it that you stop.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  You decide.

• 39:22Dax Shepard?

  That you have to.

• 39:23Speaker 02

  That you have to stop. I stopped because my feelings are hurt and I can't do it. I don't want to make excuses for it. I do believe what I said about even the praise because you can see it happening with children. Like you tell a kid, you're a good boy, you're a good boy. And then they like do something bad. And then all of a sudden that's how like shame builds because they're like, oh, I'm not living up to what I told I was. There's that. But don't get me wrong, in moments where I've read and it's just been all glowing, you know, I'm like, oh.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  I think you can lie to yourself as someone in the public eye is putting out art. You can say like, well, I should read it because maybe they have some constructive criticism for this show. It's like, oh, maybe they'll say something that we should start implementing or we're doing wrong.

• 40:03Dax Shepard?

  Which has happened to some degree.

• 40:04Speaker 02

  It depends on what you're making because that's where like. McDonald's, that's like the corporate kind of thing. If you are making an album that's about your life at this point, then the comments pushing you in either direction are relevant. It's about you. The thing that people will connect with is a deeply personal piece of work that you put out into the world. It shouldn't be dictated, it shouldn't be crowdsourced. And I've seen this pattern play out a lot. I remember seeing it with American Idol. If people make you, they won't respect you.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:35Speaker 02

  If they built it, then it's like, ah.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  Cause they're like, I made it so I can take it away.

• 40:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, you got an album because I voted. Just as a viewer, as a listener, what I'm attracted to are confident pieces of art, things that are put out by people who it seems like it was inevitable. They were gonna do this regardless. You can see the difference in the movie stars of old and the current movie stars. It's people burdened with self-awareness. You can't keep the crowd in your head and make something singular.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:02Speaker 02

  I've read beautiful messages of coming out and what it's meant. And people sharing things with their children. That's what I'm saying, even that about being frozen. It's like, okay, my next piece of work may not fit with this compliment. It may actually contradict this compliment. I may be in a different place in my life tomorrow, but I need to show that too. And I may come back to this, I don't know, but that's what I'm saying. Just like inundating yourself with it.

• 41:29Dax Shepard?

  Again, is that vestigial? Are you permanently PTSD, muscle memory, fearful that you're ultimately gonna let people down? Cause you've been living for so long with this notion of, well, when you find out the real me, you're gonna walk.

• 41:46Speaker 02

  I'm sure there's parts of that that is there, a fear of God's punishment, a fear of letting someone down, a fear of not being enough. I think I'm trying to make things about that fear and about overcoming that fear. That's definitely still there. My boyfriend is from the suburbs and he definitely deals with somebody who's like from the hood, that has hood paranoias.

• 42:07Dax Shepard?

  A hypervigilance.

• 42:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, paranoia for like not having money. I'm terrified if you leave a plate out, I think that the place is gonna be infested with roaches tomorrow. I'm just like, I'm terrified.

• 42:15Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 42:16Speaker 02

  It is traumatic.

• 42:17Speaker 01

  Do you try to work on those things or are you like, that's me?

• 42:22Speaker 02

  That's part of the letting go. A friend of mine, I don't know if it's his quote or if he read it somewhere, but he says, What got you here won't get you there.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  I like that.

• 42:33Speaker 02

  And I really love that. And Brene Brown obviously talks about like the walls that you build no longer serve you, especially once you hit your mid 30s. It's like you start learning, oh, I don't need this armor anymore. I need to get rid of it. And so that's part of the letting go, trying to go like, well, I'm here now and I'm

• 42:50Speaker 01

  Safe.

• 42:50Speaker 02

  Safe, yeah.

• 42:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, the safety thing's everything, I think. It's like, yeah, I'm constantly having to remind myself. It's preposterous. This is like, you're not 10. There's no stepdad in the mix. You don't need to be afraid of anyone.

• 43:01Speaker 02

  I understand religious practice. Now, I understand the need to wake up in the morning and reaffirm certain beliefs to remind yourself of something, to like have some ground, yeah, some ground to stand on. Wow, that was cool. Yeah.

• 43:17Dax Shepard?

  And what I really, really deeply relate to is you are having a professional peak while simultaneously having like a personal low. And the anxiety you get when things are good, I so relate. I am at my worst if everything's great.

• 43:34Speaker 02

  That was the big revelation that I had recently, like, what if everything's okay? It's such a scary thought. What if any problems that arise, you're equipped to deal with them? What if the person who says that they love me means it?

• 43:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So what's next? So for me, I think, oh, wow, what's on the other side probably of acknowledging all these things are good and everything's fine? I might have to rewrite my story. And that's probably the scariest part for me is like, it's time to let all that go. That story is over. Do you think you're doing some of that with your standup? This is me. Here's everything and now it's gone and we can be on to the next thing.

• 44:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Well, that was a thing going back to Jay-Z for the millionth time.

• 44:18Dax Shepard?

  I'll never tire of it.

• 44:19Speaker 02

  He would say, this is just what I'm feeling at the time.

• 44:23Speaker 01

  But we live in a world that isn't conducive to that. People are like, this is what you said in 2012. This is what you said in this interview. Now you're a hypocrite and there's no room for people to evolve.

• 44:34Speaker 02

  At some point for ourselves.

• 44:38Speaker 02

  We gotta let that go too. And especially, not even to make this political left or right thing, but if we can learn something from Trump is that wow, like a lot of things that would have torn a lot of people down, he just kept moving.

• 44:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:51Speaker 02

  It's like, man, whoever I agree with politically, I hope that they have that tenacity.

• 44:56Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 44:57Speaker 02

  To just go. They can get shot in the ear and keep moving. Yeah, well, just go through the fire of criticism. Cause I want that for someone that I believe in to like, go through the fire of criticism and come out, still stand firm in their beliefs and not be torn down. It's very easy to do that. And a lot of times that call comes from inside the house. Like you tear someone down before they can be great. And what I don't want people to lose is curiosity and curiosity in other people. You don't have to agree with someone to be curious about how they got to this place and why they're making the decisions that they're making.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, we can't fix anything if we're not curious about how it happened in the first place. So much of this is upriver stuff and we need to know backstories. We need to know what happened in order to fix it.

• 45:40Speaker 02

  I think about even early days of Oprah. Oprah was interesting and got a lot of shit during the time. Even retroactively gets a lot of shit. But like Oprah was going to towns in the South and interviewing the Klan, having deep conversations with people that she disagreed with, people that hated her.

• 45:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:58Speaker 02

  And that is missing. And now everything's so insular. So the bros talk to the bros and the intellects talk to the intellects. It is important to have conversations with people. Cause now the criticism you get is like, why are you platforming?

• 46:12Speaker 01

  I know.

• 46:12Speaker 02

  This person, but it's like, no, but everybody's platforming. We all platform Trump. We paid him attention. Oh, yeah.

• 46:18Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 46:19Speaker 02

  Love or hate, it is platforming. The left was the only people more obsessed with him than the right. Yeah, yeah, yes. I mean, weirdly. I would want an intellect to sit down and have a con. Anyway, oh, I'm gonna get political.

• 46:31Speaker 01

  Well, I think it's interesting that you have that opinion because I do too. And I always say, I actually think it's a very privileged person who says, well, you shouldn't be platforming or you shouldn't be talking to them because they're bad. And it's like, well, I grew up having to talk to people I disagreed with. I would have zero people in my life if I hadn't done that. So that's a privilege you had.

• 46:52Speaker 02

  I feel that perspective too, where I feel like an outsider everywhere from North Carolina. I moved to LA and I'm just in environments that are completely different. And in North Carolina, my high school really felt like an experiment. I went to Robert B. Glenn High School in Kernersville, North Carolina, that had people busting from the hood and from the projects and the suburbs and from rural areas. I remember my classmate Dawn having a Confederate flag on a notebook. These people that you're sitting next to in class, that you're talking to every day. I have actual like faces and voices to people that I may disagree with politically. But Dawn taught me a Kenny Chesney song. It was like singing the good stuff. That hasn't changed how I voted, you know, but it put a voice to it.

• 47:36Speaker 02

  I think I have a sensitivity to the language of shutting people out. It's because I fear being shut out. I fear not being heard. And so I have a sensitivity to that, even if you disagree.

• 47:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, me too.

• 47:47Dax Shepard?

  So there's a moment in the special where you're talking about how hard it is to say to your boyfriend, I'm sad, my feelings are hurt, to be vulnerable. Your explanation is like, I can't say that because it's gay. I talk about this a lot on here. I'd be shocked if a woman could understand what the all day pressure was all day long on a playground. It was singularly about not being called gay. That was it.

• 48:17Speaker 02

  Part of why I named the special that because like the number one rule that you kind of talk is being a man. Because like being gay is being a woman.

• 48:23Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 48:24Dax Shepard?

  And it's so deep. It is our deepest fear in that first 12 years of survival.

• 48:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, and the playground is where boys learn to create competition to just to prove how much they're not their sisters and their mother. Yeah, yeah.

• 48:38Dax Shepard?

  There's homophobia as a blanket term and it's like you don't like gay people. That's one thing. And then I think there is this internal homophobia that you could not have not picked up by growing up in the eighties and nineties.

• 48:51Speaker 02

  Vulnerability of what that means. And I didn't like the vulnerability of that. That was why it was my biggest fear.

• 48:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a new season of Couples Therapy, which is incredible. I don't know if you watch that show.

• 49:00Speaker 02

  I love Couples Therapy. So Eli, Josh and Elise, who created that show, they did reality show. Who I love, Edgeline, some of my best work. I had seen the Weiner documentary directed by

• 49:12Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, amazing.

• 49:14Speaker 02

  And Eli edited, and I loved it. And I'd always wanted to work with them. And then they made Couples Therapy in the meantime.

• 49:20Speaker 01

  Incredible.

• 49:20Speaker 02

  I've gone to the set and watched. It's incredible.

• 49:23Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, we're obsessed.

• 49:25Speaker 02

  They do excellent work. Couples Therapy is so great.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  But there's a couple, I won't give anything away, really, but there's a couple in this season. And there's a guy who is carrying this insane secret. She keeps trying to pull it out and he won't really say it. And he talks about going on this ayahuasca trip. He had to get these demons pulled out, but they wouldn't come out. Ultimately, we find out what the secret is. And I won't reveal what it is, but it was something that I was like, what? This is the thing that you're so truly burdened by? I was like, oh, I'll never understand it. That's a thing that is inflicted on men. And it is around being gay. He's not gay, but it's around that. And it made me so sad. I was like, I'll never understand that.

• 50:13Speaker 01

  That's broken this person, this event.

• 50:15Speaker 02

  No, it's hard.

• 50:16Dax Shepard?

  It's the fastest track to excommunication, which is any social primate's biggest fear in the world. And it is as quickly as you can get ejected.

• 50:24Speaker 01

  Do we think it's still happening in this same way?

• 50:28Speaker 02

  I would have liked to believe in recent years that, man, what are you talking about? We've changed so much. But then Roe versus Wade getting overturned, things that you just think are like written in stone.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 50:40Dax Shepard?

  You take for granted.

• 50:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, not even just the law, but the beliefs behind them.

• 50:44Dax Shepard?

  It appears self-evident.

• 50:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, we're at this point now. But no, I mean, when I came out, Google Alerts for myself, I was on like lists of like gay celebrities. There's certain countries that I'm like, whoa, it's still. Kind of scary out there. Still reasons not to come out. It's still the perception and things that I would have assumed have changed haven't as much.

• 51:05Dax Shepard?

  I think it's changed a lot and I think it's still there. My kids are in a public school or one of them is still and the shit that goes down is not nearly as bad as it did on my playground, but it is still all happening. But bringing up that thing, I think it's so real. There's something even more illuminating about it, knowing that it's such a deep thing that you would even be experiencing in an openly gay relationship where like there'd still be a fear of being gay.

• 51:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 51:32Dax Shepard?

  It just really illuminates how deep that is.

• 51:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, it really is. My boyfriend's more comfortable with himself and is more comfortable even embodying of somewhat more like feminine perspective.

• 51:43Dax Shepard?

  Would you agree yours is compounded by being black? No doubt.

• 51:46Speaker 02

  Growing up in like a really masculine environment for sure.

• 51:52Dax Shepard?

  Well, let's just say that a group of people that has had their masculinity systematically stripped for them, they're going to come at it from a different.

• 52:00Speaker 02

  To be a black man and you're taught that you need to have the strength of ten men to like be able to face what the world's gonna give you. And there is a need for that. So that doesn't go away. I carry a lot of that.

• 52:11Dax Shepard?

  Now the stuff you tell on yourself that's even harder and I have experienced this in my own life, which is like I had an open relationship for seven years. I've talked about that a ton on here. Nine years. Sorry.

• 52:22Speaker 02

  Whoa.

• 52:23Dax Shepard?

  I think I've been able to talk about that here because it's over and it's safe for people to hear how that worked. If Kristin and I have been vocal about that, that's not our big fear in life. Even just that scares me. There's still.

• 52:41Speaker 02

  Talking about it, you saying?

• 52:42Dax Shepard?

  Yes. I think it's such a primary fear for people that they wouldn't be enough for their partner. And that's how they would interpret monogamy. That it's so core to their own deepest fear that it remains one of the more still tricky things to talk about. Almost shockingly so.

• 53:02Speaker 02

  I'm lucky to be able to be gay. I'm lucky to have the boyfriend that I have. He's smart and understands. But not just understanding, but has these feelings too. We're free to explore and he knows my work and even in his own work, like we're free to explore what that is and how we feel about it. And we do sex therapy sessions once a week with Dr. Jana and we'd sit in it and we're like talking it out.

• 53:24Dax Shepard?

  Are they hard?

• 53:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. You know, it's funny because I've been doing it for years. These sessions sometimes can be three hours and you would think that after a couple of years of talking about sex, at some point I'd be like, okay, I think we got it.

• 53:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 53:36Speaker 02

  But no, no.

• 53:37Dax Shepard?

  I think it's still the hardest thing for people to talk about.

• 53:40Speaker 02

  It's so hard. And years later, I have a brand new revelation that on Thursday I'm gonna have to like bring up with Dr. Jana. I can't talk it through here just because I have to talk it through. Then it'll find its way into something, but I'm just saying, wow, still?

• 53:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So I firstly prompted the open relationship by just saying, hey, look at your past. Look at mine. We cheat. And I love you. I'd really like to figure out how to be with you and have kids with you. And so if the expectation is neither of us are ever gonna cheat, I just don't think we're gonna get there. So it was like a very pragmatic approach.

• 54:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:12Dax Shepard?

  I'm very curious about your situation. We didn't talk about, the premise was what I don't know, I don't need to know and I don't care. And that worked beautifully for us.

• 54:21Speaker 01

  For a while.

• 54:22Dax Shepard?

  Well, things would come up where it needed to get talked about. People would have fallen in love or real complicated stuff would happen. And we definitely had to go through that when that happened. But in general, it's not like I knew who she fucked or vice versa. What I will say now in retrospect is the one aspect that I was unable to do, and I don't think I could ever do, is I couldn't have maintained our own sexual relationship when I had options. My normal one that needed a lot of maintenance couldn't compete with that. Is that an issue at all?

• 54:51Speaker 02

  Oh, for sure. It's a very difficult thing to figure out, to maintain the same level of passion when you have novelty and you have options and you have these things.

• 55:01Dax Shepard?

  Fantasy.

• 55:02Speaker 02

  Yeah. And look, I'm not one of those right or wrong type of people because I wouldn't have thought I'd ever be in. When I first told my boyfriend I loved him, I asked for monogamy because I was like, that's of course the correct way of doing it.

• 55:15Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 55:16Speaker 02

  But then. I cheated because I'm still having these desires. You have to do what you can live with, obviously, because I have the example even from the home of the illusion of monogamy.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 55:26Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 55:26Speaker 02

  That's dangerous too. Now I'll just keep what I'm really feeling, what I really want, who I'm thinking about while having sex with you will never come up.

• 55:36Dax Shepard?

  Just a big old secret I'm gonna carry.

• 55:37Speaker 02

  And some people can live that way and would even say that that's the responsibility to your partner. You grin and grin. Deal with that and push that aside and some people can do it and some people don't cheat and some people live with it and maybe are able to release that in other ways or just suppress that. And some people maybe only desire their partner, maybe this is all true. For me, I want to fuck everybody all the time.

• 56:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 56:03Speaker 01

  And that doesn't change by saying I want to be with you. The switch doesn't flip.

• 56:08Speaker 02

  No, and it is difficult to reconcile that honestly and talk about that honestly. Because I also just looked at my boyfriend the other night and he was the most beautiful person in the world to me.

• 56:16Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 56:17Speaker 02

  Like I just like have this image and I'm like, oh, my face against his neck feels like perfect harmony.

• 56:23Dax Shepard?

  Intimacy is on another level, I'm sure.

• 56:26Speaker 02

  But also I want this, can I stop wanting it? Can I train myself not to want it? I don't know. I'd be willing to do anything to make my relationship work, but this is the honest approach for me right now.

• 56:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and I have zero judgment of it.

• 56:41Speaker 02

  No, people got a lot of judgment and even within the gay community, if you look at gay reddits, they're just like, nope, open relationship. It's laughable to some people, never be able to work, someone's gonna fall in love. I totally get it, but you know, also more people in the studies about like open relationships, the openness of the relationship hasn't been the cause of the breakup. They'd still break up over like money.

• 57:00Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, we didn't break up over the open.

• 57:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, like you still break up over like kids and money.

• 57:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. Okay, so I accept it all. I have no desire for you to be any way other than how you are. But do you have the same curiosity I have, which is like, I too want to fuck everyone. And ideally, what I really want is I want everyone to approve of me. And so on one end, you could just trust your horniness is just, this is my horniness and this is how I was born and. Engineered and then you could also go, and there's something else going on.

• 57:30Speaker 02

  There's a part of me that's a little bit, I didn't come into my own until my thirties. And so I'm still trying to like, validate that. There's a part of me that's seeking that. There's a part of me that also likes sex as a moment with people. I like having moments with people.

• 57:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, of course.

• 57:47Speaker 02

  Moments where I felt like I got to know someone. I like for this to feel like a non-sexual intimate moment.

• 57:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 57:53Dax Shepard?

  No, it's a rad experience.

• 57:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'd like to leave with something. I'd like for anybody that experiences me to walk away with a smile.

• 58:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, and a connection.

• 58:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, and a connection.

• 58:04Dax Shepard?

  Okay, now let's be even more daring.

• 58:08Speaker 02

  Please.

• 58:08Dax Shepard?

  You have a lot of options.

• 58:10Speaker 02

  Well, the beauty of being gay is that sniffies and grinder and like, I could just find somebody that is seeking a transaction.

• 58:17Dax Shepard?

  Within nine minutes of leaving here.

• 58:18Speaker 02

  On my way home, I could, yeah, I could do that. But even for a woman, if you are a woman who enjoys casual sex, men are fucking crazy.

• 58:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 58:26Speaker 02

  And so you can't just have a man come to your house.

• 58:29Speaker 01

  It's too dangerous.

• 58:31Dax Shepard?

  Too dangerous.

• 58:31Speaker 02

  Well, just come to your house.

• 58:33Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 58:34Speaker 02

  Fully clothed, you could be wearing armor. Like, you can't just have a guy come to your house.

• 58:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, women are like, if the plumber's coming over, I should probably have a friend over.

• 58:43Speaker 02

  You need to have a friend for the plumber.

• 58:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:45Speaker 02

  For the electrician. So like, not really an option, more you could have like a stable, but there is a certain security that I know I would require. And I even feel now even more than like random hookups, I like more the friend with benefit.

• 58:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The other thing I just love too is you're talking about being with straight men, like husbands at a dinner in the special.

• 59:07Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 59:08Dax Shepard?

  One of the wives asked, what do you think of Sydney Sweeney? And after like tons of attempts, he's like, yeah, she's attractive.

• 59:15Speaker 02

  But that was just part of the concealing desire thing, right? It is hard to say and to speak openly because it'll come up later, let alone the actress, the celebrity talking about someone that's nearby, that's in the neighborhood, that's in the restaurant. Oh, that person's hot. Like, oh, what does that mean?

• 59:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 59:33Speaker 02

  It's hard to reveal that. A lot of my straight guy friends just don't even, why invite the hassle?

• 59:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I get it, because it's so hard to unhear it once you know.

• 59:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 59:46Speaker 01

  Like, oh, they think that person's hot.

• 59:48Speaker 02

  And hotter than me?

• 59:49Speaker 01

  Exactly. That's a good point.

• 59:51Speaker 02

  So that's what you want? Supposedly they look different. Oh, is that what you actually want?

• 59:55Speaker 01

  You settle for this?

• 59:56Speaker 02

  But you actually want this person that you call gorgeous?

• 59:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:00Dax Shepard?

  But in fact, that's not even how it is. In our pod, five families, husbands and wives, and then our friend says to one of the guys, if you could fuck any of the other wives, who would it be? And he goes, any of them.

• 1:00:14Speaker 02

  I felt that coming. Either way, that was gonna be crazy.

• 1:00:18Dax Shepard?

  But in your mind, like, your husband said Sydney Sweeney's hot, and you think it's an obsession, but you might need to go like, oh, he might have said like, yeah, anybody.

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, no, no.

• 1:00:28Dax Shepard?

  It ain't even that deep. It's just like, oh, yeah.

• 1:00:30Speaker 01

  But that's still horrifying.

• 1:00:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, like, anybody?

• 1:00:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's even worse.

• 1:00:35Speaker 02

  But even that is like, so anyone but me?

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:00:38Speaker 02

  It all comes back to me.

• 1:00:39Speaker 01

  Yes, it does.

• 1:00:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I really loved, too, your runner in this special about moms are crazy.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  I related so much. I mean, I love my mom so much.

• 1:00:50Speaker 02

  No, of course.

• 1:00:50Speaker 01

  But she is on that YouTube. You said specifically like rabbit holes or obsessions, and I was like, it is happening.

• 1:00:57Speaker 02

  No, no, moms get radicalized.

• 1:00:58Speaker 01

  They get radicalized? Years, why?

• 1:01:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, Monica's mom was super into the Johnny Depp Amber Heard trial, and it was driving her insane. She was like home visiting, and her mom was like super dialed.

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  She just had her headphones in the whole time I was there. I was like, what are you doing? She's like, I'm still listening to you.

• 1:01:13Speaker 02

  Because especially like, you grow up, you move out of the house. That's why I say they got that mom energy. You know, my mom worked a full-time job, but I was also part of her full-time job. Now she's retired, so lifting both of those things. Hey, what is she doing all day?

• 1:01:26Speaker 01

  Exactly, just to fill the time.

• 1:01:28Dax Shepard?

  She needs that internet.

• 1:01:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, and even if your mom's still working, well, she's not coming home so concerned with you for the rest of the day.

• 1:01:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:35Speaker 02

  How she fill in that block of six hours?

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  Another plight of the mother. It's so unfair and thankless.

• 1:01:43Dax Shepard?

  Number one thankless job in the world.

• 1:01:44Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:01:45Dax Shepard?

  And then it's weird because I too have been on this kick about men's just speaking less and less and less as they get older.

• 1:01:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:51Dax Shepard?

  Because I'm in that position now where I'm a 50 year old man with two little kids and a wife and I just talk less and less and less. I was saying to Monica, like so much so that I was wondering like, what was my Papa Bob really like? My grandpa, who I met, he was so stoic and quiet. He was probably popping off in the twat.

• 1:02:07Speaker 02

  Man, literally. What did he want?

• 1:02:10Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:02:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:11Dax Shepard?

  When he used to speak a lot. What was that like?

• 1:02:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:14Dax Shepard?

  I just thought he was a kind of a quiet dude. He wasn't quiet. He learned.

• 1:02:18Speaker 01

  Learned his lesson.

• 1:02:20Dax Shepard?

  It's a fucking great special. I love kind of the trajectory you're on. You know, there's comedians where it's like you're gonna see the same thing that you like, they're predictably funny in a certain way. And then with yours is very much, oh, I'm gonna see a different movie altogether with the same lead character, but it's gonna be a totally different movie. And that's very fun.

• 1:02:39Speaker 01

  New ideas.

• 1:02:39Dax Shepard?

  I really like, really look forward to them.

• 1:02:40Speaker 02

  Thank you very much.

• 1:02:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:41Speaker 02

  Wait, before we go, I gotta shout out my best friend's mom, Patty.

• 1:02:44Dax Shepard?

  Patty. Let's talk about Patty.

• 1:02:46Speaker 02

  She loves you guys.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  Oh no, maybe she got radicalized by us. We're her YouTube.

• 1:02:52Dax Shepard?

  Our Johnny Depp.

• 1:02:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, baby, baby. Just, I know she's listening.

• 1:02:56Speaker 01

  Shout out.

• 1:02:56Speaker 02

  Just say hi to Patty.

• 1:02:57Dax Shepard?

  We love Patty.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  Thank you, Patty.

• 1:02:59Dax Shepard?

  All right. Well, I adore you. Thanks for coming. I hope you do it several more times.

• 1:03:03Speaker 02

  I always like talking to y'all.

• 1:03:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you're so lovely.

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  You're so fun.

• 1:03:05Dax Shepard?

  And I'm really impressed with how open you are.

• 1:03:08Speaker 02

  No, thanks for being a safe space.

• 1:03:10Dax Shepard?

  All right.

• 1:03:13Speaker 04

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

• 1:03:21Speaker 05

  He is an arm care expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's gotta let him have the facts.

• 1:03:31Dax Shepard?

  Hello.

• 1:03:32Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 1:03:35Dax Shepard?

  You're in the attic.

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  I'm in the garage.

• 1:03:38Dax Shepard?

  You're in the garage, yeah. Garage addict.

• 1:03:41Speaker 01

  I had to turn my chair. So this is a new view for people.

• 1:03:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and I'm not even sure I know where. This is the corner of the garage?

• 1:03:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I turned my chair.

• 1:03:53Dax Shepard?

  90 degrees towards the garage door?

• 1:03:57Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:03:58Dax Shepard?

  And you have really good internet now. Last time we had a little challenge, and let's be honest, I think you were attributing that to me.

• 1:04:06Speaker 01

  Well, hold on, hold on.

• 1:04:09Dax Shepard?

  Please hold.

• 1:04:09Speaker 01

  You attributed it to you. You said, oh, the internet, I need to call the guy, even though I should have good internet. You said that immediately. So I was like, oh, yeah, it's definitely that.

• 1:04:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:22Speaker 01

  You were the one in the new environment.

• 1:04:24Dax Shepard?

  Oh, it made sense.

• 1:04:25Speaker 01

  It was me. It was not you.

• 1:04:26Dax Shepard?

  And I wonder, because I wasn't too frustrated during it, and maybe because I thought it was my fault. Do you think that plays into it?

• 1:04:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, probably.

• 1:04:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:36Speaker 01

  Which is unfair.

• 1:04:39Speaker 01

  Do you want to address the elephant in the room?

• 1:04:41Dax Shepard?

  What is it?

• 1:04:42Speaker 01

  Well, you know, we're on video, so everyone just saw.

• 1:04:46Dax Shepard?

  Oh, that I just packed a dip?

• 1:04:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so desperate times call for desperate measures. I am out of, I have a stockpile of nicotine mints in LA, as you'd expect. It's my life.

• 1:05:01Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:05:01Dax Shepard?

  I thought I brought enough down here, and then I ordered some. And then it was just gonna take longer than it normally does. And then there was, I was gonna be out of mints, which that's very dangerous. So I had to say to my family, I'm going to have to supplement with dip until the mints arrive, because I can't run out of the mints. How was 4th of July?

• 1:05:25Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 1:05:27Speaker 01

  It was so nice. Um, we pod went to Palm Springs minus a few important people like you and the Richardson's, but the rest of us went and it was so fun. Last year it was so hot, record breaking heat.

• 1:05:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:47Speaker 01

  So this year it wasn't as, it was still very hot, but it wasn't as hot. So it felt like cool.

• 1:05:54Dax Shepard?

  Oh, and what is, what was that temperature?

• 1:05:56Speaker 01

  Oh, probably low hundos.

• 1:05:59Dax Shepard?

  Just always triple digits, but low triple digits?

• 1:06:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so.

• 1:06:04Dax Shepard?

  You don't remember any exact temperatures?

• 1:06:07Speaker 01

  No, it was just like body feel.

• 1:06:09Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:06:10Speaker 01

  But um, it was so fun. It was such a good mix of um, relaxing, but games, but, and we went out twice, which is, which is unusual.

• 1:06:23Dax Shepard?

  Where'd you go?

• 1:06:24Speaker 01

  Okay, there's a restaurant called Bar Cecil. It is, I guess, an insane hotspot. Like, can't get in.

• 1:06:34Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:06:34Speaker 01

  Okay, so the most they take is five people. They have one five top in the restaurant and that's it. And they don't, you can't have more.

• 1:06:43Dax Shepard?

  Okay. And were the kids on this trip or no?

• 1:06:45Speaker 01

  Yes, they were. So, but the first night, um, we, two of the groups weren't there yet. They came the next day. So it was just the Hanson's, Anna, Jess and me.

• 1:06:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:58Speaker 01

  That's five people. And so the kids uh, stayed home and had a home night and we went there. We tr- and we went to the front and we said, hey, we have five people. We got the right one. It opened. We have five people. We'd love to get in. We heard it's amazing. And they were like, well, we only have one five top and it's reserved for the whole night and the bar is reserved for the whole night. Then we were like, well, we have to. Now we have to.

• 1:07:24Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:07:25Speaker 01

  Um, and we didn't.

• 1:07:28Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:07:29Speaker 01

  It was a sad. It was a sad turn of events. We could not get in. The guy like felt bad for us. Jess tried to grease him some money. It didn't work.

• 1:07:40Dax Shepard?

  Okay, right.

• 1:07:41Speaker 01

  And then we ended up at another really fun place, the Parker Hotel.

• 1:07:46Dax Shepard?

  Classic.

• 1:07:47Speaker 01

  Which was lovely. Classic. And anyway, that was great. And then we all went out for Ryan's birthday. Ryan's birthday always happens on the trip.

• 1:07:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  And this is a crazy ding ding ding. We went dancing.

• 1:08:03Dax Shepard?

  Ooh. They had dance music at the Parker?

• 1:08:07Speaker 01

  No, no, no. The Parker was the first night. Then we went to offer at Ryan's birthday. We went out to a nice restaurant. But then we went to this really fun bar called Quads, which is a gay bar that specializes in musical theater.

• 1:08:22Dax Shepard?

  Oh, goodness.

• 1:08:25Speaker 01

  So there's like all these TVs everywhere where they're showing like all this musical theater and people are like singing and dancing. So that's Erica's favorite bar. So we went there and then across the street was this like basically legit like club?

• 1:08:41Dax Shepard?

  Nightclub.

• 1:08:42Speaker 01

  And then I was like, I'm not going. Like, I'm gonna go home. I don't like dancing. We've already established this. And like, this looks crazy to me. But I practiced contrary action.

• 1:08:53Dax Shepard?

  Nice.

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  And I went.

• 1:08:54Dax Shepard?

  And?

• 1:08:55Speaker 01

  And we all danced and it was so fun.

• 1:08:57Dax Shepard?

  That's the end of the story. Did you do a lot of dancing or a little dancing? How many minutes or hours? What was the music?

• 1:09:03Speaker 01

  Uh, okay, lots of different kinds of music. Um, they played Starship by Nicki Minaj. I love that song.

• 1:09:11Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:09:12Speaker 01

  And it was, I could think it was a lot of dancing. I think we were there for at least forty minutes.

• 1:09:18Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay. That's not a terrible long time.

• 1:09:22Speaker 01

  Well, we had already had a long dinner, been to one place. This was the last location.

• 1:09:28Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:09:29Speaker 01

  Um, and

• 1:09:30Dax Shepard?

  And how much of the forty minutes were you on the dance floor?

• 1:09:33Speaker 01

  Oh, the whole time.

• 1:09:34Dax Shepard?

  The whole time, and everyone was?

• 1:09:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:36Dax Shepard?

  Oh, great.

• 1:09:37Speaker 01

  So people got to see some of my old moves.

• 1:09:40Dax Shepard?

  And, and what did they think? What was the response?

• 1:09:43Speaker 01

  Jess, I caught at the very end. I saw him look at me dancing and he laughed.

• 1:09:47Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:09:48Speaker 01

  And then I had to talk to him about it. I said, what was that? Why did you just laugh at me?

• 1:09:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:53Speaker 01

  He said, no, I was just so delighted because I definitely didn't think I'd ever see that. Like, I thought that door was closed for you.

• 1:10:03Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:10:03Speaker 01

  And you opened it up.

• 1:10:05Dax Shepard?

  And was it fun? Would you say it was fun?

• 1:10:07Speaker 01

  It was very fun.

• 1:10:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, dancing's quite fun, Monica. It's a very, very fun activity.

• 1:10:12Speaker 01

  But I was ready to be done when it was time.

• 1:10:15Dax Shepard?

  Because you were tired, or you're, you had aches and pains, or you just, that was enough?

• 1:10:20Speaker 01

  I didn't have aches and pains. I'm very strong. Um, but I, I just could, you know, sometimes you're just like, I'm done now.

• 1:10:29Dax Shepard?

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:10:32Dax Shepard?

  I'm rarely that way

• 1:10:33Speaker 01

  Done with this environment.

• 1:10:34Dax Shepard?

  In dancing, so I'm just learning that that's an option, that after forty minutes you'd be like, well, that's enough.

• 1:10:40Speaker 01

  I think you're that way in other circumstances, though, like when you're at, like, group gatherings or something. I feel like you're like, okay, time to go now.

• 1:10:47Dax Shepard?

  Oh, sure, sure. Yeah. I just don't ever get that way on a dance floor, generally. Usually you gotta

• 1:10:52Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:10:53Dax Shepard?

  pull me off. You know how it, I am with my dance floors. I gotta find a dance floor here in rural Tennessee.

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, you should. Okay, yeah, tell me about your fourth and your, um, dancing.

• 1:11:07Dax Shepard?

  No dancing, but boy, our fourth was spectacular. We took the boat, you know, um, just chat, asked chat in the morning, the best place to see fireworks on Old Hickory. And of course, it tells me right away and they, and then nailed it. So, um, Gallatin's like a, a little town across the river. And, uh, it would take about forty minutes to drive there or seven minutes to boat there.

• 1:11:34Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 1:11:34Dax Shepard?

  So we went and we were kinda early on the early side. I bet we got there at seven. It's, the fireworks were not till nine. We just hung out on the boat. It was my brother and my sister-in-law and my mom and Erin and Ruthie. And the children's and Kristen and we parked the boat probably 200 yards from the barges that set off the fireworks. And

• 1:12:01Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 1:12:02Dax Shepard?

  I mean, maybe I've seen a better display. I don't think so. I felt like this was like Detroit River budget of fireworks. It went on forever. They were spectacular. We were directly under them. It was so, so special to be on the water. We were swimming. It was incredible. The echo off of the fireworks onto the forest behind us was maybe the coolest part. The echo was as loud as the fireworks it seemed. So that was July 4th. And then July 5th, God bless the, I think it's Cedar, maybe Creek Yacht Club on the lake. They did their fireworks on the 5th and that's only like a three minute boat ride.

• 1:12:47Dax Shepard?

  It's virtually next door to the house. Those ones were sneaky. They started out

• 1:12:52Speaker 01

  What do you mean?

• 1:12:52Dax Shepard?

  One at a time. And we were all like, okay, well, last night had a much bigger budget. It was better, but that's fine. This is still lovely. Again, there's like hundreds and hundreds of boats anchored. So it's very Pirates of the Caribbean feeling already. It's really fun. But this, this, Monica, this show wouldn't end. We thought we saw the finale like seven times. It became a bit. Well, okay, that's the finale. No, it wasn't the finale. So it started slow, but it went hard, harder and harder and harder. And boy, it did a little. It was a real toss up with the night before, but

• 1:13:25Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 1:13:25Dax Shepard?

  Two back to back nights of fireworks on the boat floating. I, it's, it's as good as it gets. I couldn't believe how fun it was.

• 1:13:35Speaker 01

  I love fireworks. What is your favorite firework?

• 1:13:38Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow. I, I don't know if I have a favorite. Do you have a favorite?

• 1:13:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I like the kind

• 1:13:44Dax Shepard?

  The huge gold one?

• 1:13:45Speaker 01

  No, it's not gold. It, it like

• 1:13:50Speaker 01

  Floof sal. It's a floof.

• 1:13:52Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Well, that could describe most of them, probably.

• 1:13:57Speaker 01

  Okay, let me look up types of fireworks.

• 1:14:00Dax Shepard?

  I will say when they were blasting a ton off at low altitude and it was just a wall of sparkly, I really liked that quite a bit. And here's a fun update about Frank, because dogs hate fireworks. That's what they're known for, right?

• 1:14:15Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:14:15Dax Shepard?

  They sit home and shake on July 4th. Frank was transfixed by the fireworks. He was staring right at them on the boat both times, and he really enjoyed the fireworks. No fear, just excitement. Yeah.

• 1:14:32Speaker 01

  Well, that's why he's my favorite dog.

• 1:14:36Speaker 01

  Okay, this is great. I like glitter. That's bright twinkling points of color.

• 1:14:42Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:14:44Speaker 01

  Okay, there's also willow, a slow burning effect with a long trailing tail.

• 1:14:51Dax Shepard?

  Hmm.

• 1:14:52Speaker 01

  There's a strobe, that's self-explanatory. Peony, a spherical burst of colored stars with a limited trail. Palm tree. Now, we all know what palm tree is.

• 1:15:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:04Speaker 01

  A shell effect that resembles the leaves of a palm tree. I do like those.

• 1:15:08Dax Shepard?

  Those are great. There's none I hate. Is there any you dislike? I don't dislike any of them.

• 1:15:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a couple that I'm like, ew, about. They give me the feeling.

• 1:15:16Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow. Yeah, so I was earmarking my reaction to Nashville from last episode where we discussed your GLP-1.

• 1:15:25Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:15:26Dax Shepard?

  And I have to say that it is infinitely better than I was expecting. I can't believe what a perfect mix of a lot of things it is that I just got pure lucky with. Like, the lake, Monica. I love a lake, but I will say, like, when my dad lived on a small lake, you'd go on a cruise around the lake. You would take your, like... Seven minute lap of the lake and then you'd maybe post up at the sandbar and then that was your activities. This, the Cumberland River, I can go 60 miles to the right. It's just like endless exploration in little bays and houses to be nosey about. I forgot how much I love being nosey about people's backyards.

• 1:16:09Dax Shepard?

  Cause the front yard, you can't really tell what's happening, but a backyard, you know what's going on with a family if you look into their backyard.

• 1:16:18Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:16:19Dax Shepard?

  Anywho, the exploration's outrageous. There are, and I am always so curious. There's a few houses that are like 30,000 square feet. I mean, they're like, you can't tell if they're country clubs or their houses. And I get so curious how they made all that money.

• 1:16:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. Ding ding ding, Mindy Kaling. She wants them to write it on their, have a poster outside that says how they got it all.

• 1:16:41Dax Shepard?

  Yes. And then another aspect that I love is, and I think this would bum normal summer goers out, but so much rain and thunderstorms. Every day. And I love it. It's very Hawaii, Monica, and you're gonna find out here in seconds.

• 1:17:04Speaker 01

  I am. I'm coming to visit. I'm gonna come on in a couple of days. I'm really excited. I love a southern summer. Listen, that's my, that's my childhood. Uh, so I wonder if it's gonna be much different. I mean, obviously the lake piece will feel very, very different, but I bet the weather, I bet the invite, it's, it's gonna feel very at home. I am also gonna go home after that. My parents will demand that.

• 1:17:31Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:17:32Speaker 01

  Since I'll be so close.

• 1:17:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you're probably like a half hour plane ride away. It only took Aaron an hour and 10 minutes from Michigan to get here.

• 1:17:40Speaker 01

  Nice. Yeah, it's, it's like a four hour drive.

• 1:17:44Dax Shepard?

  Oh, so I just love it. It's so green. It's the perfect amount of rural. There's still restaurants.

• 1:17:49Speaker 01

  What's your favorite restaurant?

• 1:17:51Dax Shepard?

  Oh, so far there's this, um, well, there's been a few good ones. Well, first of all, we went last night into Nashville, first trip to go out to eat in Nashville. And we went to Brick Top, which you know about Brick Top?

• 1:18:02Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:18:03Dax Shepard?

  If I have this right, don't sue me. I believe the two founders of Houston's split. And I believe the other owner started Brick Top when he left Houston's.

• 1:18:18Dax Shepard?

  And there's several and it's dynamite. I couldn't believe how good last night's dinner was. Oh, was it delicious?

• 1:18:27Speaker 01

  Is there a Houston or a Hillstone in Nashville too?

• 1:18:31Dax Shepard?

  No, but this is it.

• 1:18:32Speaker 01

  And compare.

• 1:18:33Dax Shepard?

  Well, maybe there is.

• 1:18:34Speaker 01

  You should compare and contrast.

• 1:18:36Dax Shepard?

  Okay, I gotta add one other crazy. This is the sim, Simeus Sim moment we've had, which is to my great delight, the girls are in heaven. They love it here so much, which is great. They did say their only complaint and what they miss the most about California is no In-N-Out, right? And I'm like, yeah, that's rough. That's once a week. We ate at In-N-Out. So then we hung out with Huey one night before they all left. And we're talking to him and he said, you see, uh, they're opening the first In-N-Out in Tennessee, uh, in Mount Julia, where you all are at. It's gonna be open in a month. I go, what?

• 1:19:15Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:19:17Dax Shepard?

  In-N-Out, he said, is moving their headquarters to Nashville from California, but that's happened.

• 1:19:23Speaker 01

  Their headquarters?

• 1:19:24Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:19:25Speaker 01

  That's weird.

• 1:19:26Dax Shepard?

  Yes. What are the odds that they're opening up an In-N-Out in Mount Julia? I think this is impossible.

• 1:19:32Speaker 01

  That is wild. I almost have to see that to believe it.

• 1:19:37Dax Shepard?

  And it's supposed to be a doozy of an In-N-Out as well. Huge.

• 1:19:40Speaker 01

  What's that? Huge?

• 1:19:42Dax Shepard?

  Gigantic.

• 1:19:44Speaker 01

  No, I don't like that. Part of the charm is waiting in Las- no, no, no, no.

• 1:19:49Dax Shepard?

  I think the biggest one in the world, I just read an article, they're opening one in Las Vegas. That's like four stories.

• 1:19:54Speaker 01

  Oh, God.

• 1:19:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:57Speaker 01

  That's okay. I'm, I'm starting to get worried. Now I'm worried.

• 1:20:01Dax Shepard?

  Now you're worried.

• 1:20:02Speaker 01

  This is what happens with.

• 1:20:04Dax Shepard?

  What happens?

• 1:20:05Speaker 01

  People have to, people have to get just so big and then the quality goes down.

• 1:20:11Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 1:20:12Speaker 01

  And then everyone suffers.

• 1:20:15Dax Shepard?

  Economy at scale. Yeah.

• 1:20:17Speaker 01

  You know, that's not true. I'm not gonna bring up a very specific restaurant that this happened to. And it's like, it's dead. It's dead.

• 1:20:24Dax Shepard?

  Arby's?

• 1:20:27Speaker 01

  I said I wasn't gonna bring it up.

• 1:20:28Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:20:28Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:20:29Dax Shepard?

  Who?

• 1:20:30Speaker 01

  Umami burger.

• 1:20:31Dax Shepard?

  Oh, that one went downhill, yeah.

• 1:20:33Speaker 01

  Completely downhill.

• 1:20:34Dax Shepard?

  But not because of the size or the locations because of the number of locations, I think.

• 1:20:39Speaker 01

  Exactly, but that's what's happening.

• 1:20:41Dax Shepard?

  Now, this is gonna be the best one in the country. I feel very.

• 1:20:44Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:20:45Dax Shepard?

  It's too sim in.

• 1:20:46Speaker 01

  Hey, hey, hey.

• 1:20:47Dax Shepard?

  What?

• 1:20:48Speaker 01

  Hey.

• 1:20:48Dax Shepard?

  Serendipitous.

• 1:20:49Speaker 01

  I don't want

• 1:20:52Speaker 01

  it to be a Nashville versus Los Angeles fight between us.

• 1:20:58Dax Shepard?

  It's not gonna be.

• 1:20:59Speaker 01

  In this life, okay?

• 1:21:01Dax Shepard?

  No, well, it shouldn't be. There's, there's no reason for that.

• 1:21:04Speaker 01

  Cause I'll start crying.

• 1:21:06Dax Shepard?

  But you, you don't need Nashville to be bad.

• 1:21:09Speaker 01

  No, I, I, it's not bad. I know it's not bad, but I can't have you gunning for it being better.

• 1:21:15Dax Shepard?

  Well, okay, different. It's different.

• 1:21:19Speaker 01

  Different. It's different.

• 1:21:21Dax Shepard?

  And the In-N-Out might be bigger.

• 1:21:23Speaker 01

  I can give you that.

• 1:21:25Dax Shepard?

  The service might be faster. I don't know. Well, we'll see. We'll see in like a month.

• 1:21:30Speaker 01

  It's part of the charm, waiting for so long in the drive-through.

• 1:21:35Dax Shepard?

  Also, um, took the girls to Waffle House for the first time for breakfast.

• 1:21:39Speaker 01

  Oh, I do love a Waffle House.

• 1:21:42Dax Shepard?

  You're in now. Erin and I were saying that for sure, Waffle House of any franchise has had more fights per location than any restaurant in the world. And if you work there, I'm so proud of you. Like, you go there knowing there's gonna be four or five fights tonight between 2 a.m. and 5. And we'll just carry on and serve the food and we will be unflapped.

• 1:22:05Speaker 01

  Always the fights in my high school were at Waffle House.

• 1:22:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. What, what Erin and I were saying, when we used to go there when we drank at like 2 a.m., when you were parking the car, the, the odds felt like 20% chance.

• 1:22:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:20Dax Shepard?

  That there might be trouble.

• 1:22:22Speaker 01

  Did you guys get hash brown smothered, covered and?

• 1:22:25Dax Shepard?

  Scattered.

• 1:22:26Speaker 01

  Something else? Scattered?

• 1:22:28Dax Shepard?

  Scattered, smothered and covered is how I like it.

• 1:22:30Speaker 01

  Mmm.

• 1:22:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:32Speaker 01

  Yummy.

• 1:22:35Speaker 04

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 1:22:48Dax Shepard?

  And the shoes off policy is going swimmingly. It's not a big deal.

• 1:22:52Speaker 01

  Oh, I forgot. Okay, so that is implemented.

• 1:22:56Dax Shepard?

  Yes, there are no shoes allowed in the house.

• 1:22:58Speaker 01

  Wow. Oh, my God.

• 1:23:00Dax Shepard?

  There's been a couple of infractions, but all in all, it's been good. And I think the floors are cleaner for it.

• 1:23:06Speaker 01

  With each shoe that doesn't enter the house, you become a little less poor in your head.

• 1:23:14Dax Shepard?

  That's what it is?

• 1:23:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, you hated that because of rich people. You told me that.

• 1:23:18Dax Shepard?

  Yes, I did tell you that. That is my fear. And you're right, it should still be my fear, but it's not. Everyone's been fine with it. I think people are enjoying it themselves.

• 1:23:28Speaker 01

  No, it's not about other people. It's about you. It's about who you are. You're rich there.

• 1:23:39Speaker 01

  How does it feel? How does it feel to finally embrace that you have means?

• 1:23:44Dax Shepard?

  I often talk about that it's not the fantasy. And it's not, but also there's times where it's really fucking good. It is so good to be able to host my family and to go out to eat and to do all that stuff. And, and yeah, not worry is incredible.

• 1:24:02Speaker 01

  I feel like in the past couple of weeks have felt really like the point, and we already know this, but it was just coming to the surface that like really the point of having money is to be generous with it. That's the only way it actually feels good.

• 1:24:23Dax Shepard?

  Mm hmm. Yeah, I would agree.

• 1:24:25Speaker 01

  Help other people, give other people experiences they might not be able to have.

• 1:24:31Dax Shepard?

  Host a party, yeah. Host, host a good party.

• 1:24:34Speaker 01

  It's the only way to spend money that doesn't feel stressful.

• 1:24:39Dax Shepard?

  Hmm, hmm hmm.

• 1:24:40Speaker 01

  Like to me, it doesn't feel stressful to, to be generous. It feels good.

• 1:24:46Dax Shepard?

  Yes, totally agree. And it's been a very special feeling of like, I think, having my sister, my mom and my brother. It's been a very special feeling. Thinking about where we've come from and where we just all spent a week together relaxing.

• 1:25:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:05Dax Shepard?

  And having made it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it feels extra good.

• 1:25:09Speaker 01

  Um, I ran into some really nice armchairs in Palm Springs. I just wanted to shout all of them out.

• 1:25:14Dax Shepard?

  You did?

• 1:25:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, multiple ones and they were all very nice. Um, I did feel there was, there was one group uh, that stopped and said hi on their way out of the restaurant for Ryan's birthday. And I felt so embarrassed that there were armchairs there because we were so loud in that restaurant and we were being kind of raucous.

• 1:25:45Dax Shepard?

  Obnoxious?

• 1:25:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would, I would, I would say borderline obnoxious and um, I already felt a little self-conscious about that. Not really, but kind of. And then the fact that there were armchairs there made it feel, but they seemed, they seemed like they were happy, we were happy.

• 1:26:05Dax Shepard?

  Don't you think they want to see you have a really good time? I would want to.

• 1:26:08Speaker 01

  I do, but we were just, I don't know. I don't know if people were like, God, these people.

• 1:26:14Dax Shepard?

  What was happening? Was there a loud game being played? Was there shouting? Were people hammered? What, what version of obnoxious?

• 1:26:22Speaker 01

  I mean, there were nine of us, so it was a big table and we were, we were drinking. I mean, no one was like super hammered or anything, but, but everyone was just very loose and chatty and laughy and jokey and it was Ryan's birthday, so you know, he.

• 1:26:41Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 1:26:42Speaker 01

  He uh.

• 1:26:43Dax Shepard?

  He knows how to have a good time on his birthday.

• 1:26:45Speaker 01

  He, he really, really, really does.

• 1:26:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:49Speaker 01

  Also, over the course of the trip, he ordered two beef Wellingtons.

• 1:26:53Dax Shepard?

  Oh my God, they had that at Bricktop and my father-in-law ordered that last night. And I hadn't seen that on a menu since a cruise ship in Alaska. This is a real ding ding ding.

• 1:27:03Speaker 01

  Whoa, this is a ding ding ding. Yes, because also when we got home, he sent us an article that said that a woman poisoned people with beef Wellington for lunch.

• 1:27:17Dax Shepard?

  That's inexpensive poisoning.

• 1:27:20Dax Shepard?

  If you're gonna kill people, just buy hamburger helper.

• 1:27:23Speaker 01

  She was probably killing a bunch of elite.

• 1:27:26Dax Shepard?

  Rich people.

• 1:27:27Speaker 01

  It was like a Robin Hood situation.

• 1:27:30Dax Shepard?

  Kind of like the healthcare situation.

• 1:27:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yes.

• 1:27:34Dax Shepard?

  Giacomo, what's his name?

• 1:27:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:37Dax Shepard?

  Gilio?

• 1:27:38Speaker 01

  Michelangelo.

• 1:27:40Dax Shepard?

  No, that's not his name.

• 1:27:45Speaker 01

  We got in a big debate, per usual, on the trip, which I know me and you have had, but I wonder if your stance has changed, or if people maybe haven't heard this, but we got in a big debate whether the phrase best friend refers to one person or multiple people.

• 1:28:00Dax Shepard?

  Okay. And what was consent, was there consensus, or it was very?

• 1:28:06Speaker 01

  No, it was varied. It was varied.

• 1:28:09Dax Shepard?

  And?

• 1:28:09Speaker 01

  Because you know, my stance is it's one person.

• 1:28:12Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:28:14Speaker 01

  And, well, which is also, I say that and I, and I don't really mean it, I guess, because I.

• 1:28:27Speaker 01

  Why did you just whisper that?

• 1:28:30Dax Shepard?

  What did I whisper? I didn't whisper anything.

• 1:28:33Speaker 01

  You whispered, yeah.

• 1:28:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Yeah, okay, yeah.

• 1:28:37Speaker 01

  But, but you whispered it.

• 1:28:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:41Dax Shepard?

  Because I think in the truest sense, you'd want to be people's only best friend, but you'd want multiple best friends. I think that's what my yeah was.

• 1:28:52Dax Shepard?

  But I also was scared, so I just said, yeah.

• 1:28:57Speaker 01

  You can't be scared of me when you're in Nashville. You're not scared of me in Los Angeles.

• 1:29:02Dax Shepard?

  Something that's gonna make you angry, I don't want to do that. That scares me.

• 1:29:06Speaker 01

  That's our show.

• 1:29:07Dax Shepard?

  I know.

• 1:29:08Speaker 01

  You better do it.

• 1:29:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I did it. I did it. I just did it in a very mitigating way at first, and now I'm owning it. But yeah, I guess, I, I don't know. I, I think I'm, like, Aaron's my best friend. He's been my best friend since I was 11. He is my best friend, but I have a lot of best friends as well. Yeah, that's how I feel about it. How do you feel? Kelly's your best friend.

• 1:29:34Speaker 01

  Right, I mean, that's the thing. It's stressful because I do have multiple best friends, but there's something about the grammar and Charlie and I really, I think you could. Anticipate this that Charlie and I both had an issue have an issue with the grammar.

• 1:29:53Speaker 01

  Like best is one.

• 1:29:56Speaker 01

  Best is one. And then Ryan tried to say, well, no, best movies in the Oscars is a lot of movies. But that's you. One person, one movie wins and that's the best movie.

• 1:30:08Dax Shepard?

  Um, sure. In that case, yes, it I agree, but um, you can have

• 1:30:19Dax Shepard?

  a best motorcycle and a best car and a best truck and a best, they're all conveyances. I think that's how I would define it is like, there's lots of, there's lots of best foods. There's the best burger and there's best pizza and there's best. Those are all food. But there's multiple bests within the overall category of food. And I guess people are as different as food. So I think you can have like your best. Who you go get in trouble with and your best heart to heart and your best, you know, there's, and there's a lot of best facets of individual relationships.

• 1:30:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true.

• 1:31:00Dax Shepard?

  I think to make it about semantics denies what it's really about, which is about emotions. You want to have a special bond with somebody. And you want some verbiage that reflects that.

• 1:31:11Speaker 01

  Because there are words for other things that are uh, self evident, like wife or husband or um, child, mom, dad. Like we know what that relationship is inherently.

• 1:31:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:26Speaker 01

  And so if I'm talking about someone and I'm trying to say how close we are.

• 1:31:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:32Speaker 01

  And it's, and it's at a level that I feel is paramount. Then I want us, I want, I want there to be verbiage around that. That's different than just, oh, oh, they're one of my closest friends. Like, that doesn't feel right.

• 1:31:47Dax Shepard?

  Right. You need something more, something harder hitting.

• 1:31:50Speaker 01

  Yep. And best friend sort of serves that. Like people do know what a best friend is.

• 1:31:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I guess I just, I have multiple. And I don't feel

• 1:32:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:00Dax Shepard?

  guilty about it. And you have multiple, right?

• 1:32:05Dax Shepard?

  Do you have multiple?

• 1:32:06Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:32:09Dax Shepard?

  Who's Charlie's best friend?

• 1:32:11Speaker 01

  Well, that's why.

• 1:32:12Dax Shepard?

  It's weird that he was fighting for that one.

• 1:32:15Speaker 01

  Because he's like me, like we un, like it's just, it doesn't make, it doesn't make sense.

• 1:32:21Dax Shepard?

  Oh, do you think that could be only childishness? Like any, do you think that might be related to you guys' only child?

• 1:32:28Speaker 01

  Well, I'm not an only child.

• 1:32:30Dax Shepard?

  You're your parents' only child for eight years.

• 1:32:33Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:32:34Dax Shepard?

  Um, versus I've always been one of two and um, for most of my life, one of three. And so.

• 1:32:42Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 1:32:43Dax Shepard?

  I think by definition or description, I already was less important, but I found such an important relationship with my mom within that sharing structure that I might be a little less sensitive to it.

• 1:32:57Speaker 01

  Maybe I.

• 1:33:00Dax Shepard?

  I mean, it kind of makes sense. If you're forced to grow up like in a duo and share the love of someone. It's just standard.

• 1:33:10Speaker 01

  But I did have to do that just later, a little bit later.

• 1:33:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:33:15Speaker 01

  And I didn't bother me.

• 1:33:17Dax Shepard?

  That helps because you thought you were superior because he was such a dumb dog. He was a little baby.

• 1:33:21Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:33:22Dax Shepard?

  You were, he was a baby and you could ride a bike.

• 1:33:24Speaker 01

  Dare.

• 1:33:26Speaker 01

  I just learned.

• 1:33:30Speaker 01

  Um, no, he was superior. He was so much cuter than me when he was a little baby.

• 1:33:35Dax Shepard?

  Why not?

• 1:33:35Speaker 01

  And everyone said goo goo ga ga.

• 1:33:38Dax Shepard?

  I doubt it.

• 1:33:38Speaker 01

  No, he was, he was such a cute baby. Um, he did have a head full of dandruff, which was weird.

• 1:33:46Dax Shepard?

  Oh, gross. That's not.

• 1:33:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was gross.

• 1:33:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:49Speaker 01

  It was a reaction to some sort of formula or something, but even still he was so cute. Oh.

• 1:33:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Okay, so maybe, maybe he had that too. I don't know. It feels like it could be a clue.

• 1:34:02Speaker 01

  It could be. You're right. It could be, but I think it's more like type A, double Virgo. Best is, is one. Best is one. Like who's the best basketball player of all time? Michael Jordan. There, there's one.

• 1:34:15Dax Shepard?

  But that's not even true. We know that's not true.

• 1:34:18Speaker 01

  Of all time? Of course it's true. There are incredible players, but there are goats. There are greatest of all times in sports.

• 1:34:26Dax Shepard?

  Eight titles and he was the coach of the team while he was a player. You could definitely argue Bill Russell's better than him. I think Kobe is just as good as him, didn't win as many championships. I think they, some of these people now all suffer from, they are in the wake of this, of course incredible, one of the best to ever do it, but I think there's a lot of tricky branding that goes on. It's just like, he occupies that place. And even if a basketball player was better than Jordan, he wouldn't get that moniker at this point.

• 1:35:01Speaker 01

  You're right.

• 1:35:01Dax Shepard?

  Until 20 years goes by, maybe. And like Valentino Rossi is a god. He's my number one god. He's my Michael Jordan. And I have to admit, I was looking at the number of race wins that Marc Marquez now has. It's more than Valley by a considerable amount.

• 1:35:18Speaker 01

  What's the other guy's name?

• 1:35:19Dax Shepard?

  Um, Marc Marquez.

• 1:35:21Speaker 01

  His name is two times Mark?

• 1:35:23Dax Shepard?

  That's right. Mark times two. In span, they'd say times do.

• 1:35:31Speaker 01

  Wow. He's really, he's the actual Marky Mark.

• 1:35:34Dax Shepard?

  And Alex Marquez is younger brothers and number two. But yeah, I was just looking at that and I was like, well, look, the numbers would suggest that I'm wrong. Valley's not Michael Jordan, just numbers wise. But for me, he is Michael Jordan. He'll continue, because he had to race against Marc Marquez. Marc Marquez hasn't had to race against Marc Marquez. I feel like that's not his name now, and I know his name very well. And now you have me scared. So I'm just gonna chat G G G P T, okay?

• 1:36:03Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:36:04Dax Shepard?

  Who's a better motorcycle rider, Valentino Rossi or Marc Marquez?

• 1:36:09Dax Shepard?

  This might make it blow up.

• 1:36:10Speaker 01

  This is the type of double Virgo situation where it's going to give you an opinion as fact, and I'm not going to like it.

• 1:36:16Dax Shepard?

  Here's how it breaks down. There's no clear better overall, but the answer depends on what you value most. Valentino Rossi, the legend, world championships, nine, seven in premier class, wins 89, podiums 235. Okay. Mark has had eight world championships, six in premier. Okay, so he's still got to win one more to catch, which he's going to win this year. Race wins 59. Oh, Valentino 89. What did I see?

• 1:36:48Speaker 01

  Oh, gosh.

• 1:36:49Dax Shepard?

  Podiums 140.

• 1:36:52Dax Shepard?

  Podium's 235. Oh, so I'm, no, I'm still safely very much.

• 1:36:59Speaker 01

  Exactly. There's a clear best.

• 1:37:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:02Speaker 01

  And is that his name?

• 1:37:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it is Mark Marquez. Yeah, thank God.

• 1:37:05Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:37:06Dax Shepard?

  That would have been humiliating. Okay. Well, good. That was a good day for me. I found out my hero is statistically better.

• 1:37:12Speaker 01

  And a good day for me because confirming that best is best.

• 1:37:17Dax Shepard?

  Right. Best is still best.

• 1:37:19Speaker 01

  Look, I do want to be everyone's best. I get that is, that is part of it, but it's also grammar. And, and back to Charlie, he, he, he agrees with me, but he then couldn't really say. See, this is what happens when you, when you believe this, it is then hard to say who your best friend is because in reality, I guess we do all hold multiple, but then he ended up saying ace, which was very cute.

• 1:37:48Dax Shepard?

  Oh, that is good.

• 1:37:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it was a cop out because he just needed to say one. He said Erica.

• 1:37:56Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:37:56Speaker 01

  He said Erica.

• 1:37:57Dax Shepard?

  Okay, his wife.

• 1:37:58Speaker 01

  And then he switched it to ace.

• 1:38:00Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:38:00Speaker 01

  Both safe options.

• 1:38:02Dax Shepard?

  And was Ryan hurt during any of that? Or he seemed fine?

• 1:38:06Speaker 01

  Um, he was all right.

• 1:38:08Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great. Did Ryan say who his best friend was?

• 1:38:11Speaker 01

  He is, no, he's in the category of everyone is.

• 1:38:14Dax Shepard?

  Everyone's his best.

• 1:38:15Speaker 01

  Not everyone, but that, no, that's you. I think, I think, yeah, you, you do throw it around.

• 1:38:22Dax Shepard?

  I just know so many special people. Like, you're gonna not call Penae or Nate Tuck best friend? No way.

• 1:38:29Speaker 01

  Well, here's, okay, so then special people and best friend are not the same thing.

• 1:38:35Dax Shepard?

  They're not. You're right. Cause I know a lot of special people that are not my best friends.

• 1:38:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:38:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but I know a handful that are.

• 1:38:42Speaker 01

  Dakota Johnson.

• 1:38:44Dax Shepard?

  Who I just saw, I feel like there was some overlap. Maybe Dakota Johnson was with Lewis Hamilton somewhere? Is that what I saw? No, she's married?

• 1:38:52Speaker 01

  No, she was with, she was with Kate.

• 1:38:55Dax Shepard?

  Oh, and, um. And Tom, Tom TB12.

• 1:39:00Speaker 01

  Tom Brady.

• 1:39:01Dax Shepard?

  Tom Brady. Yeah, I saw that on Instagram.

• 1:39:04Speaker 01

  She had a really cute outfit, bathing suit and skirt.

• 1:39:08Dax Shepard?

  This is our pop culture podcast now. We're do pop culture. Yeah, I saw a photo.

• 1:39:13Speaker 01

  It's all positive.

• 1:39:14Dax Shepard?

  On Instagram of TB12 and Kate and Johnson.

• 1:39:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I saw that too. And I obviously immediately looked up the skirt. I almost bought it, but I didn't buy it.

• 1:39:28Dax Shepard?

  You gotta be careful when you say you looked up the skirt, because that's a perv. That's a category of photographs on the dark web called upskirts. And you want to stay clear of any association with that.

• 1:39:41Speaker 01

  Well, I have to double down. I did look up the skirt.

• 1:39:45Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my God. What did you see?

• 1:39:49Dax Shepard?

  How did it look?

• 1:39:50Speaker 01

  A gorgeous, gorgeous interior.

• 1:39:54Dax Shepard?

  Hmm, hmm. Even better than the exterior.

• 1:39:57Speaker 01

  No, I didn't buy it. I wanted to buy it, but I didn't buy it because, uh, triz, I guess.

• 1:40:04Dax Shepard?

  Triz? Trizepetide?

• 1:40:06Speaker 01

  Triz is, yeah, that's what we call it.

• 1:40:08Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you call, that's what you call the GLP-1 triz?

• 1:40:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:12Dax Shepard?

  I love it. So you can't buy anything because triz, because triz might take you out of the size?

• 1:40:19Speaker 01

  No, remember, I'm also doing it to curb shopping.

• 1:40:22Dax Shepard?

  Oh, right. Okay, God, there's so many things at play. That makes sense.

• 1:40:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, there are.

• 1:40:27Dax Shepard?

  And has it had any effect on your shopping? You said no.

• 1:40:29Speaker 01

  No, I've, I've gone shopping so much. I got this sweater on the way to Palm Springs. There's an insane outlet.

• 1:40:36Dax Shepard?

  Which is mostly why you want to go to Palm Springs, right?

• 1:40:40Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:40:40Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:40:41Speaker 01

  Yes. I wasn't gonna go. I wasn't gonna go. Okay? And then I was driving right past it and I turned, I turned around.

• 1:40:51Dax Shepard?

  Wow, you got off in a later exit and then went backtracked?

• 1:40:55Speaker 01

  I turned around and then I was stopped at a train.

• 1:41:01Speaker 01

  For so long.

• 1:41:02Dax Shepard?

  Of cars?

• 1:41:03Speaker 01

  The longest train I've ever.

• 1:41:04Dax Shepard?

  Or an actual train was passing.

• 1:41:06Speaker 01

  A train was passing and I was stopped there for so long that it really was like, oh no, like.

• 1:41:12Dax Shepard?

  The universe was smiting you, yeah.

• 1:41:16Speaker 01

  That's right, really, really punished. But then the train ended and I went straight into the stores.

• 1:41:23Dax Shepard?

  And had a great time.

• 1:41:24Speaker 01

  I had a great time.

• 1:41:25Dax Shepard?

  How was the Triz with drinking on the trip? Cause it would normally be a big drinking trip.

• 1:41:30Speaker 01

  It was still a drinking trip. It was definitely less than usual.

• 1:41:38Dax Shepard?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:41:38Speaker 01

  Um, I think normally on those types of trips, like you're drinking early.

• 1:41:47Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:41:48Speaker 01

  I started drinking later in the day than I definitely used to.

• 1:41:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:53Speaker 01

  And then I would stop early, but I always kind of stop early. I'm not someone who drinks into the night. I like to be done early. So because the late start and the early end, there's less consumption, definitely. I also was sweating it all out.

• 1:42:10Dax Shepard?

  Sure, sweating to the oldies.

• 1:42:11Speaker 01

  That's what they say?

• 1:42:13Dax Shepard?

  That's, uh, that was the guy, uh, who danced around a lot, who was missing, who was always on Letterman. Um, flamboyant man, you know him, exercising.

• 1:42:23Speaker 01

  Oh, Ri- uh, Richard Simmons.

• 1:42:26Dax Shepard?

  Yes, Richard Simmons DVD collection was called Sweatin' to the Oldies and you would dance to these catchy old songs and the pounds would melt away.

• 1:42:35Speaker 01

  Oh my.

• 1:42:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. They should have Ozempic, like, um, paired musical tracks or just you take your Ozempic and put the CD on and then you lose a bunch of weight.

• 1:42:47Speaker 01

  Have you looked at any of the comments? What's the reaction?

• 1:42:50Dax Shepard?

  I haven't. I haven't been over to our page because our page is more dangerous than my page. And anytime we wade into anything controversial, I just avoid our page. So we talked about Taylor. And so I just knew better than to look at our page for a while.

• 1:43:06Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:43:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So I'm not sure.

• 1:43:08Speaker 01

  Okay. Well, I hope, I hope people respect.

• 1:43:11Dax Shepard?

  I didn't see anything on my page, which means it's not controversial. Cause I will see things on my page if they're enough controversial and nothing.

• 1:43:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:20Dax Shepard?

  Not one thing.

• 1:43:21Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:43:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, everyone's supportive. I'm gonna take that as support.

• 1:43:24Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. Okay. We're, we're really taking a leap.

• 1:43:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:29Speaker 01

  All right, should we do some facts?

• 1:43:30Dax Shepard?

  Yes, let's do some facts.

• 1:43:32Speaker 01

  Some facts for Gerard.

• 1:43:34Dax Shepard?

  Ah, Gerard.

• 1:43:37Speaker 01

  He's so amazing. I love him.

• 1:43:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:40Speaker 01

  I love him. He's so introspective and insightful and thoughtful. Like, he's just, he's just thinking about the world all the time. And it's so fun to talk to people like that. Okay, now, the botox, so I just said that my botox was called something specific because it's like, I can still kind of move.

• 1:44:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:03Speaker 01

  Because it's like the actor's botox or whatever. And I didn't know if that was, um, there was an actual name for it. Not really. It just says like microdose or something. I get, I think my guy just has a cute name for it.

• 1:44:18Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:19Speaker 01

  Shout out Contraposto, Casey Welk. He's perfect.

• 1:44:23Dax Shepard?

  Is he a magician when you go so far as to say he's a magician?

• 1:44:25Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, because I love magicians and I love Casey and he does great work. And I do think it's subtle.

• 1:44:32Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah. I would have no idea. Other than that, you look too young to drink wine.

• 1:44:38Dax Shepard?

  Even for a 25-year-old. Like, by the way, that whole thing with you getting carded, that makes sense if you're 50, because I can no longer tell. Anything below 35, I'm out to lunch on. I don't know if someone's in high school or in graduate school. But when you're 25, you have a good barometer of who's 20.

• 1:44:57Speaker 01

  I know. And corrective skincare. I owe a lot to a lot of people. Um, and my parents. Some of this is just genes.

• 1:45:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:45:08Speaker 01

  Um, okay, did Michael Jackson's nose fall off entirely? According to the internet, it did not fall off entirely, and that's a rumor.

• 1:45:17Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:45:19Speaker 01

  So. I, you know, I feel obligated to say that the internet says that's not true.

• 1:45:26Dax Shepard?

  I want to tell us, because it came up last night, funny enough, at dinner, and I know we've told it before, but it's worth repeating now that we're talking about Michael Jackson. Yeah, Ryan's driving the car, he's got his three girls, Michael Jackson comes on, they're listening to it, and everyone's just like, I love Michael Jackson, he was the best. And then Ryan feels compelled to like, just add an asterisk, like, well, he's a little complicated. And then the second he says it, he realizes, I don't want to explain to them why it's complicated. They're very young.

• 1:45:55Speaker 01

  He said, he did, he did some really bad things.

• 1:45:59Dax Shepard?

  Yes. And they were like, what? And he's like, I, I, I don't want to talk about it, now's not the time, we won't talk about it later. He's like, no, Daddy, tell us. And then the middle child, Millie, goes, oh my God, did he smoke cigarettes?

• 1:46:14Dax Shepard?

  That was their first guess, did he smoke cigarettes? Because it was really bad. And Ryan goes, no, no.

• 1:46:20Speaker 01

  It was really bad, he was like, he did some really bad things. No, we're not going to talk about it, it was really bad. Like, he was like emphasizing how bad it was, and then, oh, did he smoke cigarettes?

• 1:46:32Dax Shepard?

  Right. And then the second guess was, did he show his penis to somebody? And then Ryan's like, okay, well, he has definitely more in that world. But in order, smoking cigarettes would be worse than showing your penis to somebody.

• 1:46:46Speaker 01

  I know. This is actually timely, because cigarettes feel like they're sort of back in culture. I find that to be scary.

• 1:46:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I just heard that maybe Gen Alpha, whatever, whatever, one of the younger generations is like, reinvigorated by smoking cigarettes, which is hysterical.

• 1:47:05Speaker 01

  It's so, it's like, we just all are like, fine with dying, I guess. Like, everyone's just like, end of the, I do think that might be part of it. It's like, well, fuck it, everything's bad, everything's messed up, might as well smoke. And it's like, in movies again, like, as a cool thing.

• 1:47:24Dax Shepard?

  Retro.

• 1:47:25Speaker 01

  And, do you know about this? Diet Cokes are called frigid cigarettes now.

• 1:47:30Dax Shepard?

  I heard that recently, and I loved it. That's so good.

• 1:47:34Speaker 01

  It's great for you, because you love Diet Cokes.

• 1:47:36Dax Shepard?

  And I love cigarettes so much. But to me, what it points out is like, our overall culture is a pendulum, right? We've felt it swing, particularly in the last four years, right? It's just like, There's all these overcorrections and then, but it's also happening intergenerationally. And the downside is they're like, oh yeah, those, the older people are so terrified of smoking. So then they're, that kind of appeals to them. But then the encouraging thing for me is like, the incessant hating half of the country. That too will be a thing that they're like, oh my God, they're so fucking stupid. So it's like, there's positive parts of it.

• 1:48:17Dax Shepard?

  It's always just like some reaction to the previous generation, I think.

• 1:48:22Speaker 01

  Maybe.

• 1:48:23Dax Shepard?

  Well, we'll see.

• 1:48:24Speaker 01

  We just know it causes cancer.

• 1:48:27Dax Shepard?

  We sure do. They have been working on, I've read about it. There is a lung cancer vaccine in trials.

• 1:48:37Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:48:38Dax Shepard?

  These younger generations, they have no fucking clue how lucky they are. No chicken pox, they'll never get HPV. And by God, maybe they can bang darts without lung cancer.

• 1:48:47Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:48:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:49Speaker 01

  Gosh, if they have a lung cancer vaccine, would I start smoking cigarettes?

• 1:48:57Dax Shepard?

  You must, you must, you'd look so cool. And then you'd shave your side and then there's just be like this whole chapter that everyone would be excited to watch.

• 1:49:07Speaker 01

  I, I don't know.

• 1:49:10Dax Shepard?

  I, I've thought about it because I loved it so much. I mean, I really loved smoking. And I was like, fuck, if they get that vaccine, would I? And ultimately, no, cause I was such a bad smoker though. Like I, you know me, I cough all day long without anything in my lungs.

• 1:49:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:32Dax Shepard?

  So I, I've already thought this through and I'm not going to do it, even if there's a vaccine.

• 1:49:37Speaker 01

  It also stinks. Like the other day I was walking by and I was like, ugh, like it does, it smells bad.

• 1:49:44Dax Shepard?

  Oh, it's terrible, but you should know when you're a smoker, you can't smell it. So like, when you start smoking, you'll be fine. Your whole house will smell like an ashtray, but you won't know.

• 1:49:52Speaker 01

  Ew, that's literally my nightmare. You know, I'm so scared of smelling and not knowing it.

• 1:49:59Dax Shepard?

  It might be a nice submersion therapy for you.

• 1:50:03Speaker 01

  Okay, um, who are the background singers on Donna Summer's song State of Independence? Okay, yeah, okay, so Quincy Jones assembled this and Michael Jackson, Stevie Wonder, Dionne Warwick, Lionel Richie, Brenda Russell, Christopher Cross, Kenny Loggins, James Ingram and Michael McDonald. Okay, he talked about the movie Network and he said he thought maybe the actor won the Oscar and she was on screen for just a couple of minutes. The man won the Oscar, but he was dead.

• 1:50:36Dax Shepard?

  But he died before he could receive the Oscar?

• 1:50:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:40Dax Shepard?

  Posthumously? Wow, that must have been the first year that an Oscar winner was also in the in memoriam.

• 1:50:47Speaker 01

  Wow, that's sad.

• 1:50:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but also kind of a full takeover.

• 1:50:51Speaker 01

  Did it happen to Heath?

• 1:50:53Dax Shepard?

  He was alive when he won.

• 1:50:56Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:50:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, cuz he did, he did Batman after Cowboy movie.

• 1:51:02Speaker 01

  Brokeback.

• 1:51:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, let me ask you a question. Brokeback now sounds in inherently gay, but I can't imagine it did before the movie. Do you think? There's nothing about that word before the movie, but when you hear brokeback, you immediately think this gay love story.

• 1:51:25Speaker 01

  Right, yeah, no, I'm sure. Cuz what does it mean? I don't even remember. Is that the name of the mountain? I don't remember.

• 1:51:32Dax Shepard?

  But it sounds like onomatopoeia for gay, something gay sex a little bit. Brokeback mountain.

• 1:51:38Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:51:39Dax Shepard?

  You don't think so?

• 1:51:40Speaker 01

  No, it's not, no.

• 1:51:45Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no. You're saying because, why, it doesn't have to be gay sex, that just sounds like sex and you might break your back.

• 1:51:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but it sounds like doggy style and arched back.

• 1:51:57Speaker 01

  Which, which hetero couples do constantly.

• 1:52:02Dax Shepard?

  They can't get enough of it, you're right. But yeah, so I guess not. But it does, I agree, it does, it does sound kind of like reverse back. Back?

• 1:52:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, but we don't, we still don't even know what that means.

• 1:52:13Dax Shepard?

  Back is a triggering word. Let's just agree on that.

• 1:52:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, oh, you're okay. Yeah, because back bottom anal.

• 1:52:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Well, broke bottom mountain, broke bottom mountain. That now that's we could agree. Yeah.

• 1:52:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll give you that. Okay. Um, yes, Heath Ledger was nominated for and won the Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor posthumously for his role as the Joker in Dark Knight. So he did win.

• 1:52:43Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:52:45Speaker 01

  You know, I just want to end. He said a quote of, I think he said his friend said it. So this is very telephone, but I really liked it. I really liked when he said, what got you here won't get you there. I thought.

• 1:52:58Dax Shepard?

  My feelings are a little bit hurt because that's I say that I have the same same and just worded a little different, but it never made an impact on you.

• 1:53:05Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:53:06Dax Shepard?

  Mine is what got you to the party won't keep you at the party.

• 1:53:10Speaker 01

  Won't keep you. I know. And I, I.

• 1:53:12Dax Shepard?

  You don't care when I say I get it.

• 1:53:15Speaker 01

  I know. It's not that I don't care. I, I love you, but there this has a better ring to it.

• 1:53:22Dax Shepard?

  You like the branding better, the messaging?

• 1:53:24Speaker 01

  I like the play on words. What got you here won't get you there.

• 1:53:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Yeah, it's good. I mean, part mine has party in it. So it sounds a little more fun. What's there could be marooned on an island.

• 1:53:39Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:53:40Dax Shepard?

  All right.

• 1:53:40Speaker 01

  Okay. Yours is better.

• 1:53:43Dax Shepard?

  No, it's all right. Yeah. Your, your true feelings are known. Monica, there are so many deer out my window. It's insane. There's two little baby deer that live in my yard. We've named them Bambi and.

• 1:53:57Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:53:58Dax Shepard?

  Bambi and the boy's name is the best. Um, Bambi and, oh, man, I gotta get.

• 1:54:05Speaker 01

  Bambu.

• 1:54:07Dax Shepard?

  Brumb, Brambus, Bambi and Brumb, Brambus. Oh, I can't remember. Something like.

• 1:54:14Speaker 01

  Oh, um, Bambi is, is fortuitous.

• 1:54:21Dax Shepard?

  Because?

• 1:54:22Speaker 01

  Doesn't Bambi die or does Bambi's mom die?

• 1:54:26Dax Shepard?

  We lose Bambi's mom, I believe.

• 1:54:28Speaker 01

  Okay. All right.

• 1:54:30Dax Shepard?

  In the great tradition of all Disney movies, the parents die in the opening frame and then.

• 1:54:35Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:54:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. It's a good device. Strong.

• 1:54:39Speaker 01

  Um, all right. Let's end on dead parents.

• 1:54:43Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great. I'd love to.

• 1:54:46Speaker 01

  Love you.

• 1:54:47Dax Shepard?

  Love you.