Alex Cooper

Alex Cooper (Call Her Daddy, Call Her Alex) is a podcast host and television personality. Alex joins the Armchair Expert to discuss coveting Orna as her own shrink, growing up with a therapist mother, and the push to continuously be learning and honing her craft as a podcast host. Dax and Alex talk about her parents bombing their speech at her wedding, feeling vaguely aware of their competition upon first meeting but rooting for each other anyway, and why in order to be professionally respected she knew she had to create a bubble around herself. Alex explains attempting to hide her middle school past as a bullied “ugly duckling,” the sexual harassment she experienced as a college soccer player, and delving into how the system failed her in her new documentary Call Her Alex. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ http://www.wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome to My Arm Share Expert. I'm Dax Shepard and I'm joined by Monica Padman.

• 0:04Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 0:05Dax Shepard?

  And we have a peer on today, Alex Cooper, who's the host of Call Her Daddy. Unless you were born within the last eight hours, you know Call Her Daddy. That's her great podcast. She's here today to talk about her new docu-series premiering on Hulu, June 10th, called Call Her Alex. And it's an awesome documentary. I really, really loved it. It was very special to learn so much about someone that I just know socially and I like. And this is a very special episode.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  It is.

• 0:38Dax Shepard?

  I felt very, very, very grateful for how open and lovely she was.

• 0:42Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 0:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. It's fantastic. Please enjoy our friend, Alex Cooper. We get support from Quince.

• 0:50Speaker 01

  Okay. Can we talk about the fact that the holidays are already here? It's crazy. I feel like I blinked and now we're in gifting season, which I'm not really mad about because I do love giving gifts and Quince is making it so easy to find something great for everyone on my list, including myself, because let's be honest, self-gifting is a love language.

• 1:10Dax Shepard?

  Quince is seriously the gift that keeps on giving. Their high-quality staples are made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, 14-karat gold, and Italian leather. Full-on luxury quality at prices that won't wreck your holiday budget.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  It's the dream. The cashmere sweater is starting at $60, down jackets, wool outerwear, cashmere accessories. You and everyone on your list are staying cozy and looking incredible all season long.

• 1:37Dax Shepard?

  Well, I'm gonna tell you this, it just got chilly for the first time this year in California. And I'm so excited. And I'm wearing my Quince cashmere right now.

• 1:44Speaker 01

  It's great.

• 1:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And I am going to gift this to some of my friends. I hope they're not listening.

• 1:49Speaker 01

  Quince is also more than clothing. They've got fine jewelry for your significant other, leather bags for your bestie, hotel-quality bedding to set up your guest rooms, chef-grade cookware. That's an amazing thing they offer here. And it's such a good gift because people don't like buying cookware for themselves, but it's very important. And they also have five-star luggage, another good gift. That people don't like buying for themselves.

• 2:11Dax Shepard?

  Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Armchair Expert. It's the best way to support the show. We are supported by Walden University. You know that feeling when you've been thinking about making a move, going after the degree, the promotion, the thing you keep telling yourself you'll get to someday? Walden University is built for that moment. For over 50 years, Walden has helped working professionals

• 2:51Dax Shepard?

  get the W, the knowledge, the skills and the confidence to create real change in their careers and communities. Their programs are designed around your life, not the other way around. With Tempo Learning, available in select programs, there are no rigid schedules or set weekly deadlines. You move at your own pace. And Walden's faculty aren't just academics. They're practitioners who bring real world experience into everything they teach. From your first class to career coaching and beyond, Walden is your partner the whole way. Take the first step and learn at a pace that works for you. Visit waldenu.edu. Walden University. Set a course for change. Certified to operate by CHEV.

• 3:51Dax Shepard?

  Orna's in it.

• 3:51Speaker 02

  How good is she?

• 3:52Dax Shepard?

  We love Orna.

• 3:54Speaker 02

  It's coming back on Friday.

• 3:55Dax Shepard?

  It's back!

• 3:56Speaker 02

  Oh, do you want to know something?

• 3:58Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 3:59Speaker 02

  I'm so in the in, I already watched it.

• 4:01Speaker 01

  Stop, you got advanced screeners?

• 4:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, but it was annoying because it had my email right in the middle. And so it was constantly covering everyone's eyes.

• 4:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 4:10Speaker 02

  But I'm that much of a crazy person addicted to that show that I was like, I don't even care. I'm going to watch it like this.

• 4:16Dax Shepard?

  You're not the person I met who has her as a therapist.

• 4:20Speaker 02

  Oh my god, no, but I definitely have joked to her being like, Orna, come on. And she's like, no, Alex, it's full conflict of interest. I'm like, but what if we just did like a session?

• 4:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 4:29Speaker 02

  The way she like leans forward is like.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  Her one braid.

• 4:33Speaker 02

  She's so chic and beautiful.

• 4:35Dax Shepard?

  She's like the hottest woman alive.

• 4:37Speaker 02

  She has this aura about her that you can't stop staring at her. And Matt thinks I'm insane because I binge the whole thing. Like I do a day where I just sit and he's like, I like therapy, but I'm not that into therapy. Like you're fucking insane.

• 4:53Dax Shepard?

  It's not a sport.

• 4:54Speaker 02

  No, but I love it.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  There's something voyeuristic about it, that show specifically, because it's like this where you're peeking in.

• 5:00Speaker 02

  I love therapy so much. I could just sit all day and watch anyone in their own session.

• 5:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, have you ever listened to Esther Perel's Meaning in Captivity? Similar like, wow, I can't believe I get to hear this and I'm so delighted to hear it.

• 5:15Speaker 02

  I know. I paused on my therapy recently because she was my therapist in New York. I was just getting to the point where I'm like, I think I need to do in person. I really have missed it. And so I haven't had a therapist for a couple of months and Matt the other day was like, I'm going to therapy. Do you want to come? Joking. And I was like, wait, yeah. And he was like, wait, really? And I was like, yeah. So his therapist is two blocks away from our office. So we walk there and we go into a couples therapy session together with his therapist. I just showed up.

• 5:42Dax Shepard?

  Kind of unannounced.

• 5:43Speaker 02

  Yes. And she was like, nice to meet you, which then I thought, how big of a mindfuck for a therapist?

• 5:48Speaker 01

  Oh my god, I'd be like, absolutely not.

• 5:49Speaker 02

  The person that your client just talks about all the time. Right. I'm like, it's me. Hello. And she's like, oh my fucking god.

• 5:57Speaker 01

  I just had a huge kind of issue with this. I have a therapist I love. If you need her, I can recommend.

• 6:03Speaker 02

  Just give her to me.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  Incredible.

• 6:04Dax Shepard?

  But she's Zoom as well. So same ish.

• 6:06Speaker 01

  You might be able to see her in person. I just don't. But anyway, she's incredible. And I had a friend who wanted a therapist and so I reached out to her to get a recommendation. This whole thing ensued where basically my friend ended up calling my therapist to ask her for a recommendation. And I panicked when I heard this information. I was like, you can't, that is such a boundary cross. You can't just go call my therapist without asking. And then we had that whole conversation about it and she was like, yeah, I really shouldn't. It was wild.

• 6:41Speaker 02

  But the thing that I empathize 1% about that, because that is not appropriate, but it's hard to find a good therapist. So when you have a friend that has one, you're like, no. You better either share or tell me someone that she recommends. Because it's all by word of mouth. It's hard.

• 6:56Dax Shepard?

  Okay, but hold on, Monica.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:58Dax Shepard?

  So would you say this flies under kind of a jealousy umbrella?

• 7:02Speaker 01

  Uh-uh. It's an intimacy. She knows more about me than anyone on earth, truly.

• 7:08Dax Shepard?

  Including you, probably.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 7:12Dax Shepard?

  As they do in four minutes.

• 7:14Speaker 01

  And it's a bit of a longer story. I did get a recommendation for this person. I gave it. And then that person didn't call my friend back. So then they asked me again to check in again. And I was like, no, she's done her job. I'm not gonna keep doing that. And then there was, I'm gonna find my way.

• 7:33Dax Shepard?

  I'm going through my mental rolodex of your friends to decide who's that entitled. That they were like, wait, they didn't call. I need a call back.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  To be fair, I had compassion for this. This person has never had a therapist, doesn't really understand.

• 7:44Speaker 02

  She's learning the boundaries.

• 7:46Dax Shepard?

  Well, let me ask you this. Would you be opposed to a good friend of yours just using your therapist? Is that an issue for you?

• 7:54Speaker 01

  I guess it depends on the person. If it's someone I'm talking about a ton, that's probably a no.

• 8:00Dax Shepard?

  Would you care?

• 8:01Speaker 02

  I wouldn't care unless that person was a focal point in my life where I really talked about them in therapy. Because I have friends that I've never even mentioned in therapy, and then I have friends who I talk about incessantly. So it depends where you are on that scale.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 8:15Dax Shepard?

  No, okay, great. So would your fear be, there's a couple options. So your fear would be somehow your therapist would leak these complaints to your friend who's now seen her? And I don't think that's it. Or I think deeper might be, my therapist is gonna see this person, meet them, and realize I'm nuts, that I have so many issues with them. Is it either of those?

• 8:36Speaker 02

  You know what? No. It's more that I would be nervous that she wouldn't be able to do her job correctly. Because in some capacity, as a therapist, you are in this little vortex where you're taking in the information that They're solely giving you. Everyone has their own perspective in life. And so I would worry that if I was saying something negative about this person, and then this person was talking in a way that wasn't congruent with what I had said, she would just have a hard time being like, well, who the fuck is right? Who the fuck is wrong? So I just would worry it would make her life hard. And I wanna be a people pleaser.

• 9:09Dax Shepard?

  But can I argue, they don't believe anything you're saying. In a traditional sense, they're listening to you and they're like, yeah, you're a human, and this person triggers this thing in you. Even if you say they're doing X, Y, and Z, all they're really thinking about is, well, why is that impactful for you and how do we, right?

• 9:25Speaker 02

  That's fair.

• 9:25Speaker 01

  Their best version, yes, but they're still human. They're not robots. Yes, you do develop a relationship with them. And then I don't think they can fully, fully see you as just a project. They still see you as a person.

• 9:40Dax Shepard?

  I wonder.

• 9:40Speaker 01

  I tried to go to my best friend's therapist. She said it was okay. And so I reached out to her therapist and the therapist said no. She was like, that would be a conflict of interest.

• 9:49Speaker 02

  Oh, so you're a hot topic?

• 9:51Speaker 01

  Probably.

• 9:51Speaker 02

  Oh, shit.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  Come on, we go way back. Of course I'm gonna come up here and die.

• 9:56Speaker 02

  Dying. Wait, I'm obsessed with this studio and I'm looking at this picture and I cannot figure out what it is. Is that a bacon, egg, and cheese pork roll with?

• 10:04Speaker 01

  Taylor Swift.

• 10:05Speaker 02

  I was gonna say, is that Taylor Swift or your wife?

• 10:07Dax Shepard?

  Take your pick.

• 10:08Speaker 02

  Wow. What inspired Taylor Swift on top of a pork roll, egg, and cheese?

• 10:14Dax Shepard?

  This artist does celebrities on a sandwich that they're related. So they did one of me on a Coney Dog, because Detroit's known for Coney Dogs.

• 10:21Speaker 02

  You probably have one.

• 10:22Dax Shepard?

  You gotta get a Philly steak and cheese. You're closest to Philadelphia, right?

• 10:25Speaker 02

  Philly cheesesteak?

• 10:25Dax Shepard?

  Newton was closest.

• 10:27Speaker 02

  It's called Newtown.

• 10:28Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 10:29Speaker 02

  Not Newton, first of all. Do your fucking research.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  Embarrassing.

• 10:32Speaker 02

  No, but it's me on a cheesesteak.

• 10:34Dax Shepard?

  Well, really quick, though, is Newtown a suburb of Philadelphia?

• 10:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 10:38Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so you would do a cheesesteak?

• 10:39Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 10:40Dax Shepard?

  Unless Newtown's known for some other culinary delight, which I doubt very fucking much, even though it's called Newtown.

• 10:45Speaker 02

  Listen, Newtown was a great place to be raised. It's not known for much. Every time someone's like, oh, you're from Pennsylvania. I'm like, I know, don't ask. Because there's not much to give.

• 10:56Speaker 01

  Anywhere USA.

• 10:57Speaker 02

  It was a great place to be raised, but there's nothing interesting. There's no fun little tidbits. It doesn't make for good podcast content, honestly.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  We'll find it.

• 11:05Dax Shepard?

  So to therapy, it's almost more interesting that you like to watch a show about therapy and you're in therapy, given that your mother's a therapist.

• 11:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 11:14Dax Shepard?

  I'll tell you, that was my hurdle with AA. AA was what my dad did and all of his friends. And it was virtually Catholicism because it's what he did. And so I'd be like, God, I gotta join this club my fucking dad was in.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  Something I got really lucky with my parents is that I leaned into both of the things that they did. I took a piece from both of them and I didn't run from it. And maybe it's because my mom loved it so much, but not in an annoying way. We would beg her to tell us about some of the things that she was doing of her clients. And she's like, I can't tell you about that. And then sometimes as my mother, she would slip up and like tell me some details.

• 11:49Speaker 01

  See humans.

• 11:50Speaker 02

  I know. I didn't know who these people were and whatever. And I thought it was so fascinating because of these interpersonal dynamics that you can always relate to in some capacity. So I just really loved it. And I think I saw how transformative it was also for my friends. When my mom would do quick little sessions with them in the living room, that was the go-to. I would come home from school or soccer and she'd be doing a session with my best friend. I'm like, Mom, this is my time to go outside and make videos and play with my friends. And then my friend would be like, I just need 30 more minutes. I'd be like, do you guys like my mom more than me? But no, it always had the very positive connotation in my household.

• 12:30Dax Shepard?

  Well, what I would have been interested in is, oh, my mom gets to hear gossip. My mom gets to hear really juicy stuff that I would love to be hearing.

• 12:39Speaker 02

  For my mom, she works with children specifically. So it was actually more relatable, but less juicy and like, oh, these two are getting divorced. Let's talk about. Yeah, it wasn't a fair drama, which would have been so hot tea.

• 12:54Dax Shepard?

  It's so tasty.

• 12:55Speaker 02

  And I also think having a podcast, I'm constantly trying to push myself to be able to expand the conversation. And that starts with yourself, continuing to educate yourself, continuing to learn. And in watching these things, it helps me a little bit. I was taking tips from Orna as I'm watching her interact with her patients. I'm like, Shit, I gotta do that when I'm interviewing someone.

• 13:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 13:16Speaker 02

  So it's also like a learning, fun thing, because I want to be better at my craft.

• 13:19Dax Shepard?

  So they're in the doc a lot and they're lovely. Your mom is hot and in charge and outspoken and confident and believes in you. It's all beautiful. And then your dad is very much a dad in the best way possible.

• 13:34Speaker 02

  Such a dad.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  What's that mean?

• 13:35Dax Shepard?

  He just loves the shit out of Alex.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  Oh, that's cute.

• 13:39Dax Shepard?

  And he will stand by her and people have yelled things at him. And he is quiet and steady.

• 13:47Speaker 02

  He's so cute.

• 13:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, a good pair for the mom. The mom is seemingly, from what I saw on the doc, she's in charge.

• 13:53Speaker 02

  Yes, my mom runs it all.

• 13:55Dax Shepard?

  Dressed to the nines, great style.

• 13:57Speaker 02

  She was so nervous. She's like, do you think you could like blur my neck a little bit in the documentary? I'm like, Mom, when you're ready for a facelift, I will be paying for it. You just let me know. She's like, well, wait, you think I need a facelift? I'm like, no. She was so nervous. My mom is truly one of the most intelligent people I've ever met in my life, but she cannot public speak for shit. She bombed at my wedding. It was the best part of my wedding. And to this day, she's like, stop fucking saying that.

• 14:23Dax Shepard?

  Wait, what version of bombed? She go up on her speech or couldn't read her speech or she didn't write it?

• 14:28Speaker 02

  She wrote one of the most beautiful speeches you will ever, actually never hear, because I still haven't heard it to this day, but I've read it. She goes up and everyone thinks that my parents are doing a skit. They can't get the papers together. They can't get the papers. And then it continues where we're three minutes in. Three full minutes where my mom can't get it together. And my dad can't get it together because my mom can't get it together. And he's feeling her anxiety and he's like, I'll do it for you. And she's like, no, I can do it. You guys, for seven straight minutes, I turned to Matt and I said, go up there. Take the fucking microphone and make them sit down. And Matt was like, no, they're gonna get it together. So then my dad can't see because he somehow forgot his glasses. I'm like, what the fuck? It's my wedding.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  He can't read and he starts just ad libbing.

• 15:14Dax Shepard?

  Hold on, no. I'm presuming, given the little dynamic I saw, he probably thought mom's gonna handle this.

• 15:20Speaker 02

  Mom's gonna handle it.

• 15:21Dax Shepard?

  So he's ill-prepared because he's like, this is her thing.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Lori was going up to put on a show. She just fucking forgot that she can't speak publicly.

• 15:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 15:29Speaker 02

  So then my dad tries to remember the speech.

• 15:32Dax Shepard?

  Oh, no.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  When I was born, I went immediately into the ICU. This is the way that my dad starts the speech. When Alex was born, she came out of a cloud of blue.

• 15:42Dax Shepard?

  Ooh, okay.

• 15:44Speaker 02

  Dad?

• 15:45Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 15:46Speaker 02

  What does that mean? He's trying to read. So they bombed the whole thing and I never heard their speech to this day. Matt then called them. It was our year anniversary and he called my parents. We were having dinner and he goes, you guys, it was this exact time a year ago where you ruined our wedding. And my mom is like, Matthew? Shut the fuck up. She's like, Matt, why would you remind me of that horrible moment? But to this day, she always says, the worst parts of weddings are always the things that you only talk about.

• 16:12Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 16:12Dax Shepard?

  We just talked about this with my kids play. You'll never remember it if it's good.

• 16:16Speaker 02

  Right.

• 16:17Dax Shepard?

  You're praying that it's a disaster.

• 16:19Speaker 02

  They were the stars. But no, she's the best woman I've ever met and I love her more than anything.

• 16:25Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you know, I should have started here because we have a familiarity that I think people will sense right away.

• 16:30Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. How do we tell this story?

• 16:32Dax Shepard?

  Well, let's start with, we were all at Spotify.

• 16:34Speaker 02

  Oh, I thought you were.

• 16:35Dax Shepard?

  So the very first time we ever met was at a dinner.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  That's true. Very briefly.

• 16:39Dax Shepard?

  Very briefly.

• 16:40Speaker 02

  Outside in the dark.

• 16:41Dax Shepard?

  I want to start there because here's my thought. In some sense, we're competitors. I think just recently I had noticed, and I think I said to Monica, like, what's this show Call Her Daddy that's blasting us at Spotify?

• 16:54Speaker 01

  To be fair, you kept saying Call You Daddy.

• 16:56Dax Shepard?

  Call You Daddy?

• 16:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. He couldn't get it right. He has dyslexia.

• 17:00Speaker 02

  It's okay.

• 17:02Dax Shepard?

  I'm sure you're as familiar with the competing podcasts as I was. I just focus on our podcast. But at any rate, I want to make sure that I'm extra nice if I meet you. I want you to know I'm rooting for you, basically, even though we're vaguely competitors.

• 17:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:17Dax Shepard?

  Do you have any thoughts like that going into that dinner? Is that crossing in your mind like, oh, we'll be with chair side expert? Or whatever you called it?

• 17:24Speaker 02

  The chair guy? The guy that sits at a chair? Yes, I remember that dinner because I knew everyone from Sweden was flying in for Spotify and a bunch of the execs were going to be there. And I think that was something that was. A little different than other companies where a lot of the main people at Spotify, you rarely got to interact with, or you were on Zoom, which was great, and they were all lovely, but I knew they were all flying in and I didn't know you were going to be there that night. And then I remember seeing you because you're so tall. And when we had our interaction, I remember being like, oh, he was so nice and lovely. But I think there was this mystified sense of the top podcasters, because there was only so much money that we could all get. And it's like, it's all an exorbitant amount.

• 18:09Speaker 02

  There's room for all of us at the top. But yes, I remember being like, what is he gonna be like? And then I had a great experience with you, but it was so brief. And then we really became friends.

• 18:21Dax Shepard?

  Yes. So then I read about your serious deal and I was quite loudly excited for you on the show.

• 18:28Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 18:28Dax Shepard?

  And then someone invited top podcasters to their house. And we got to the airport and you were there. I didn't know, and I doubt you knew who the guests were gonna be.

• 18:38Speaker 02

  We kept joking, like, are we in an episode of Black Mirror? Or is this a White Lotus? This very wealthy, famous person invited a bunch of podcasters and people in media.

• 18:51Dax Shepard?

  When I was pitched it, I had a similar thought. I was like, oh, this is very sci-fi and someone's gonna get killed.

• 18:56Speaker 02

  Truly.

• 18:57Dax Shepard?

  And it's not gonna be me, so I'm gonna have a great story. I know I'll live. I was very bullish.

• 19:02Speaker 02

  I'm glad you thought that way. I would have thought I was gonna die, except the fact that Matt got to come. I was like, okay, I feel good. When we arrived at the airport, yes, I only knew that you and Kristen were going. I knew no one else. And so that immediately, I think, gave us a little bit of comfort, because as adults, it's weird to be like, we're all getting on a plane. We're all going to this place. We're all gonna stay in these houses together, like, a little summer camp, you're strange.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  Have either of you wondered that maybe you're gonna be on some sort of lit, like Epstein and Jason?

• 19:31Speaker 02

  Yes, I thought, what are we doing here? But thankfully, nothing weird happened. Okay, well, if you're not worried, I'm not worried. Then we immediately all came together because we knew each other a tiny bit.

• 19:39Dax Shepard?

  That's right. And again, I can't put too fine a point on, I just truly root for you and I'm so excited that you're crushing. What are you laughing at?

• 19:49Speaker 01

  I just spilled water all over my face.

• 19:51Speaker 02

  Oh, it is all over your face. No, but now it's gone. You're fine.

• 19:53Dax Shepard?

  I'm rooting for you to stay dry during this. But yes, we have this long plane ride and it was such a blast. We got along incredibly well, by my estimation.

• 20:02Speaker 02

  We did.

• 20:02Dax Shepard?

  And then we had this incredible three days. Which included off-roading. What a gift. I didn't see that coming.

• 20:09Speaker 02

  It was so incredible. One of the coolest trips truly of my life. I look back and I'm so grateful that we all went and the group was great and the conversations were great. The activities were incredible. Matt and I left being like, wow, we love Dax and Kristen. It was such a successful trip for us.

• 20:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So then the plane ride home was just.

• 20:29Speaker 02

  We didn't shut up. Everyone else was asleep and we were in the back of the plane. We couldn't stop gabbing. And then from there, we've now gone to dinners and we've hung out.

• 20:36Dax Shepard?

  Double date. It was very fun. And I played poker with Matt.

• 20:39Speaker 02

  And your wife now texts me videos of birds. Kristen Bell texts me, you guys. It's fine. I'm fucking cool.

• 20:45Dax Shepard?

  One of the things that surprised me right away is I asked you, I think on the initial plane ride there, do you have a hard time not becoming friends with all the people you interview? Cause I'm finding that we meet so many fucking people. We had our 900th episode this week.

• 21:02Speaker 02

  Congratulations.

• 21:03Dax Shepard?

  Thank you. So in that group of 900 people, you bet your ass, like 30 of them I want to be friends with. And I am having a hard time figuring out what to pursue and not pursue. And you go, oh, no, no, no, I won't even give my number. And I was like, oh my God, this is fascinating. Why not?

• 21:20Speaker 02

  I think I made a really conscious decision, very, very early days, because one, we're a little different in that I wasn't famous before podcasting. I am known for podcasting. So I was a nobody when I came into this industry. And the minute I started interviewing celebrities, I became very acutely aware that in order to do my job correctly, I needed to create essentially this bubble around myself where people started to really know me as this interviewer that isn't just hanging with celebrities. You are a celebrity. So it's a little different. And I felt like in order to really garner respect from these people, I wanted people to just be like, she's not fame hungry. She's not a social client.

• 22:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. Because I remember so many people that I idolized growing up, asking for my number.

• 22:11Dax Shepard?

  How do you say no?

• 22:12Speaker 02

  I was like, my assistant can get you. She'll connect us and then they never connect us because everyone now is like, oh, Alex. But it wasn't personal. There were so many moments I wanted to, but I knew, one, I really wanted to stay as normal as I possibly could. I've seen so many people come into this industry and get so wrapped up. And I knew I also couldn't do my job if I was so close with these people. So I still feel moments where people come into my studio and they're really nervous. Then I obviously break them down to not be nervous, but I don't know if I could do that if I was at every Hollywood party. And thankfully, Matt is not that type of person. He's been in Hollywood for so long, but he doesn't partake.

• 22:54Speaker 02

  So we kind of have this great simpatico with each other where we stay on the fringe. We dip in when we need to, but we're not going to go to an Oscar party unless we're up for an Oscar. We're not putting ourselves in those positions and I think it's made my life really easy now with my job. I have clear boundaries.

• 23:11Dax Shepard?

  And do you think that being friends with the people would stand in the way of you asking a question that you would otherwise want to ask?

• 23:17Speaker 02

  It depends on the guest. I think if you're going really heavy on some of these, I gotta get in there and I don't want to say I'm being a dick, but sometimes it's a little uncomfortable, but I'm gonna ask. And I don't want them to feel comfortable to be like, oh, I don't want to talk about that. And then I'm like, fuck, because my audience expects me to. So I think it's allowed me to have a level of distance so that I can ask questions like, we're not friends. I'm an interviewer sitting here right now. Keep it professional. And now, to be fair, there are moments where I see people at an event and it's beautiful to reconnect with someone because they shared so much, like you guys do. You speak about really intimate topics here. It is weird to not become friends with them because you're talking about

• 23:59Speaker 02

  the most intimate parts of their life. And when you're in this bubble of a room, it doesn't feel like there are cameras. It feels like we're actually hanging out.

• 24:05Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I've gotten closer to people in two hours that I've never met. Dove Cameron, I didn't know who she was. We're crying within 40 minutes, both of us.

• 24:13Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 24:13Dax Shepard?

  She leaves and I'm like, well, that's about as connected as I've gotten.

• 24:16Speaker 02

  So it's hard, but the beauty of conversation is that sometimes it's best left right where you put it out. And I don't need to continue that relationship with that person unless they of course reach out and they're like, I really want to have another conversation. But most of the time, we leave it.

• 24:32Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so when we were getting to know each other, and particularly on the plane ride home, and I was learning about your background, you're saying you're bullied and you're an ugly duckling. We're giving you the benefit of the doubt, but it's very hard.

• 24:44Speaker 02

  I know it is. And I did that by design, which is so sad to say. I worked so hard for no one to know that that was my past life, trying to get rid of every photo on the internet, trying to not let people see that part of me, trying to erase a part of me that made me who I am. If you told me that when I was younger, that you wouldn't have known, I would have been like, job complete. I did it.

• 25:09Dax Shepard?

  I know that the pain of it and the self-image of it is what it is, whether it's real or not. I do believe that that's how it felt. But then I watched the documentary. And again, you're not unattractive. You're a very cute little girl.

• 25:21Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 25:21Dax Shepard?

  But you do have red fucking hair.

• 25:23Speaker 02

  Oh, cute.

• 25:24Dax Shepard?

  Oh, it's so cute.

• 25:25Speaker 02

  But we all have that. Is it real?

• 25:27Dax Shepard?

  You should watch it. Here's exactly what you'll be able to say. Yes, any adult would look at that child and go, that's a beautiful little girl. And also, I know what kids are like in third grade. Your hair is super red. What I love the most, you have braces seemingly your entire childhood, just like I did. You never got the hang of your braces.

• 25:43Speaker 02

  Like, my mouth is so big. And then the bumps all over and the freckles and the acne. But you know what's so sad? I agree when I look back at pictures of myself. I'm like, it wasn't that bad. When I was home, I was okay with how I looked. And then when you get to sixth grade and boys and everything starts to change, I became aware of how I was being perceived as ugly just because it was constantly being told to me every single waking moment of the day when I was in school. Everyone called me the ginger with no soul. I was Skeletor because I couldn't gain weight. So I looked like I had an eating disorder. And then it got physical. I will never forget. We had indoor recess and...

• 26:27Speaker 02

  All of the boys started circling around me and I didn't really understand what was happening. And they were all whispering and they got in a circle and they started screaming, "Put the fire out, put the fire out, put the fire out." And they took one of their winter coats and they put it over my head and they took the back and they slammed me onto the ground. And I woke up, I assume, a couple minutes later, a minute later, completely concussed. Didn't know what happened, but I wake up and I see all these boys laughing at me like, "We did it." And all of the girls are so consumed by the boys, so they don't want to stand up for me. And I remember just trying to play it off like I'm okay, but I completely blacked out. And this is in sixth grade.

• 27:09Speaker 02

  I then scurry kind of out of the room and I go up to the hall monitor and I just ask if I can go to the nurse. And I told her what happened and she let me lay down and then she was like, "You're fine." And I was like, "Yeah, I'm fine, I'm fine." I go back to class and then I remember experiencing concussion symptoms and telling no one. And I went home that night, threw up, didn't know what was going on with me. I just got the shit beaten out of me. The back of my skull is in so much pain and it was just because of the color of my hair and the way I looked that it was physical retaliation. I then started to go into my bathroom at night and be staring at myself like, "How can I fucking change this? What can I change about myself?" For survival. To survive, because it was every fucking day.

• 27:51Speaker 02

  It just was so sad and that's what I talk about in the documentary, not as in detailed, because there was only so much time. But a lot of my young formative years, I became so good at hiding myself. I could spot when someone was going to physically either bully me or come at me verbally. And so I would change the conversation or I would pull myself back and talk about one of my friends, about how cute and funny they were. So everything was to try to mitigate the damage of someone trying to come at me. And I had this down to a fucking science. I would wear X amount of socks per day because I had to wear these skirts and my legs were so small.

• 28:35Dax Shepard?

  Were you boarding at this school?

• 28:36Speaker 02

  So no, that's high school. So middle school was this Catholic school. Grew up very Catholic, church every Sunday.

• 28:42Dax Shepard?

  I can imagine myself being in that situation and not telling my family. Were you sharing this?

• 28:49Speaker 02

  My parents had no idea.

• 28:50Dax Shepard?

  Why do you think you weren't telling them?

• 28:52Speaker 02

  One, because of the embarrassment. And then two, I think because... At home, I really was so different. My parents allowed me to express myself. My parents thought my hair was the most beautiful thing and they always would compliment me. And I started to resent it because I'm like, little do you know, it's literally the pain of my life. I want to shave my head. I hate myself so much. I think the middle school days of my life were the hardest, where I really started to disconnect from telling my parents a lot. And that made it really isolating. And it always makes me cry when my parents were moving out of their house and I was finding journals years ago while they were packing stuff. And it was just the darkest thoughts. Not that I had suicidal, genuine thoughts.

• 29:37Speaker 02

  It was more, I wrote basically like, if I did take my own life, would then these boys know?

• 29:44Dax Shepard?

  Learn a lesson.

• 29:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:46Dax Shepard?

  Did you ever ask if you could dye your hair?

• 29:49Speaker 02

  It was the summer going into high school and I had the most anxiety. I was like, I cannot go to this new school. And so partly why I chose a school that really no one from my middle school was going to was, I wanted to start over and it had the best soccer program on the East Coast. So I ended up asking my mom that summer, can I please dye my hair? And just like highlights. And it was so minimal, but it made such a difference.

• 30:13Dax Shepard?

  She didn't put up a fight?

• 30:14Speaker 02

  My mom was so supportive and the hairdresser, those moments where she was like, don't touch this gorgeous red hair. And I was like, bitch, I'm about to fucking kill myself. Dye this shit. I can't take another minute. The sad thing I look back on though is I then just kept going and it got blonder and blonder and blonder. And I look back at pictures of myself specifically in college and I just lost myself. I really tried to become this girl that I always envied in middle school. The blonde girl and the tan. I'm a redhead with pale skin and I have freckles.

• 30:52Dax Shepard?

  And a sensitivity to anesthetic.

• 30:54Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. I tried to change everything about myself and I took it way too far. The hair was platinum, the extensions, all of it. And I never wanted anyone to know who I was. Really was. And so that was really fucking depressing.

• 31:10Speaker 01

  When you were in college and you looked in the mirror and you were my color skin and blonde hair, were you like, I fucking did it. Were you proud of yourself in that moment? I did the thing I needed to do for myself. And also were boys now into you?

• 31:26Speaker 02

  Yes, it was split. It was, oh, my God, I did it. This is so fucking dumb. How different I'm being treated because of the way I look. On the other hand, I felt like a poser.

• 31:40Dax Shepard?

  You betrayed yourself a little bit?

• 31:42Speaker 02

  I have paint on my body and dye in my hair. This isn't who I am.

• 31:46Dax Shepard?

  Well, and if you dated people, I imagine you're waiting for them to find out who you really are and for it to be over. And living with the fear that they're going to discover who you really are.

• 31:54Speaker 02

  They're like, she's this hot platinum blonde. And meanwhile, oh, I was like, you guys.

• 31:58Speaker 01

  Why are your roots?

• 31:59Speaker 02

  No.

• 32:00Speaker 01

  Your roots are red.

• 32:01Speaker 02

  I was standing and a boyfriend literally looked at the top of my head and he was like, wait, why are your roots? And I hadn't got them done. And I was like, the hairstylist messed it up. I just would fully make up these crazy stories. And then it became bigger than me. And I remember when I started to get publicly known for my job. I was so terrified that kids from middle school would release photos, and they did. And I remember that day and it's a picture that was just so god awful and I was mortified. But then it kind of forced me to be like, all right.

• 32:35Dax Shepard?

  Everyone knows.

• 32:36Speaker 02

  The gig's up. And I look back now and I can at least acknowledge, although I wish I could take the pain away from, I should have never had to go through certain things I did. I remember getting headbutted by this kid at recess and I again passed out. Really aggressive things that these boys were doing. I had to find ways to love myself and it took a really fucking long time and that's okay.

• 33:03Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 33:09Dax Shepard?

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• 34:32Dax Shepard?

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• 35:58Dax Shepard?

  Simultaneous to this all happening, you're starting to get very prolific in your basement, making videos in green screen and learning to edit. And you're obviously living the life you want to be living in your basement. And I do wonder if you were celebrated and embraced and at every party and making out with a dude on the back of his motorcycle. Would we be in the basement doing all that?

• 36:19Speaker 02

  Because of how horrible my personal social life was, filming videos and creating was the one really safe space where I didn't care because the only people that were seeing my videos were my best friends and my parents. So I was fine with my hair and I was fine with my skin. And I would do close ups of my face even though I was breaking out or my braces.

• 36:41Dax Shepard?

  You have control.

• 36:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I loved it. I really felt so happy there and I hated going to school so much. So whenever I got home, I just ran down to the basement, turned on the camera, started filming. But then even as one of my Instagram stories, I posted something of my best friend Lauren and I, but I put it in black and white a few years ago. Because I didn't want people to know.

• 36:59Speaker 01

  That recently?

• 37:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:01Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 37:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, there's such deep wounds. It gets laughable, especially when you're my age. You're like, wow, we're still dealing with something that lasted for 18 months.

• 37:08Speaker 02

  It actually becomes physically learned behaviors. It almost was like I couldn't stop. I just got better and better and better at it. That it would be weird to stop hiding myself. Even when I started colored daddy, I was like, this is the bitch I wish I could have been my whole life. I was getting to do and be this person that... When I was younger, I wasn't at all. So really interesting. It was like a big dichotomy.

• 37:35Speaker 01

  How did it impact your relationship with boys and men? Were you always chasing approval?

• 37:41Speaker 02

  Yes, but almost in a weirder, sadistic way.

• 37:45Dax Shepard?

  Did you want to punish them?

• 37:46Speaker 02

  Kind of.

• 37:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:48Speaker 02

  Because I have never had a hard time making female friends. That was the thing that filled me up the most. I always felt so comfortable around women, being on soccer teams, filming with my best friends. I love female friendships. And because the boys were the aggressors that were coming towards me, I always was physically scared of them, mentally scared of them. They never wanted to touch me. I remember my first kiss, everyone made jokes about, oh, she's not even good at kissing. Everything I did sexually or physically was scrutinized. So I really felt like I couldn't be myself and explore my sexuality because I hated myself. And then when I finally got to a point where I changed my hair and changed my skin,

• 38:30Speaker 02

  boys were drooling over me. And I was just like, oh, I fucking hate you.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:34Speaker 02

  Fuck you. Because I've been the same person. I just look different, same personality. And then I think when I got to college, it really turned because it became this fun game to me where I was like, who can I get next? And that's when I started dating professional athletes because I was like, these are men that get everything handed to them and I'm going to be the one memorable thing that they can't get and they can't get and they have to work for. And it was all just about me. Once I got it, then I was like, oh my God, I did it. Fuck you. I played the game. And then it was like, oh.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  And then you're done with them.

• 39:08Dax Shepard?

  Also, it's the proverbial jock. It's so.

• 39:11Speaker 02

  It's so classic.

• 39:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's classic. Who are the cool people in high school now that I'm in college? I guess the professional athletes.

• 39:16Speaker 02

  It's also hard being in a public situation, talking about it. I also am not looking for any sympathy. It's more, I really felt like it was time to share because it is polar opposite to the persona that I have shown the entire time of my career. This confident woman who's. Explaining how to get the guy. And I thought it was important to show people I haven't always been that way.

• 39:46Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I think so.

• 39:47Speaker 02

  And that part of me I'm so grateful for now. I can actually genuinely say I'm so fucking happy that I wasn't one of those people that had it all in middle school and was the cute girl in middle school because it really informed a lot of my personality. I love who I am.

• 40:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I would argue you're obligated to. In the same way that Krista and I have always felt obligated to go like, oh, no, no. We're a couple of serb. It's hard. We didn't do well. We hate each other. It's not the thing in the commercial. You have some obligation, I think, to share that side of it. But let's talk about soccer for a second because also you had said on the airplane that you were a good soccer player. And I'm only left to guess what that means. Alex is a fucking bonkers soccer player. There's some shots and the announcer is even calling now, oh, my God, that was a Beckham-esque shot. She fucking kicks from, I don't know, 60 feet back. It goes way up over everyone, just tucks in under the thing. I'm like, oh, that bitch can fucking kick a soccer ball. You were great.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, thank you.

• 40:46Dax Shepard?

  And that I'm assuming in addition to the basement and the videos, this is another place where it's a meritocracy. It's not arbitrary. There's real rules and if you do X, Y, and Z, you will be acknowledged as such.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  And team sports, you have a built in community, people who need you and you need them.

• 41:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:02Speaker 01

  It's so important.

• 41:04Speaker 02

  Soccer was the love of my life. From a very young age, my parents tried to have me do every sport. And I was like, fine, I'll try everything, but I'll do it. And if I don't want to do it, I can go back to soccer, right? And they're like, yes, but we just think you should try. I tried every single sport, played once, got out. I did swim, great, out, okay, back to soccer. I was just obsessed with it. And finally, my parents were like, fine, just do soccer. And I leaned in and I give so much credit to my parents. I traveled all around the world. I represented the United States in Russia. We went to Sushi. I played on a club sport and I did also my school soccer. And I just loved it so much. And again, it was all women. I felt so good. I didn't care about my body if I was out there and I just.

• 41:49Speaker 02

  Had the best time and I was so competitive and I get that from my dad. He played D1 hockey at Wisconsin. Yeah, my dad worked for the NHL.

• 41:58Dax Shepard?

  Philadelphia Flyers producer.

• 41:59Speaker 02

  So I grew up around these athletes and that was my dad's job. So athletics just in my household was the norm. I never saw my dad at a nine to five normal job. We're going to stadiums and watching the players and he's producing the game. And it was a really cool upbringing, but soccer was my thing. And it's so crazy because I remember it was my freshman year of high school. I was touring colleges at 13 years old. I'm trying to figure out where I'm going to college and I will never forget. I toured Bossy University and my mom is from Boston, Lowell, Massachusetts. She told me all about Boston and how it was the best time of her life and she loved living there. And so I really didn't know at that young of an age in freshman year of high school, where I wanted to go, I toured Michigan and U Miami and all these places.

• 42:43Speaker 02

  And Boston was it for me because they had a great film program. And the soccer I was very excited about. I also knew there were better soccer schools, but this one I was like, I'll get a full ride. And I also want to be able to have also a little bit of a life. So this is perfect and I couldn't have been more excited. And I had dealt with asshole male coaches my whole life. And a huge draw was that the coach was a woman. I was so excited. I had never been coached by a woman and back to the whole men were assholes to me my whole life. I'm like, I'm gonna have it made in college. I finally look good. My coach is woman. I've got all my girls at college. I'm gonna reinvent myself again.

• 43:24Dax Shepard?

  What are the first things and how long are you denying the signals? Before you start realizing there's something weird going on with this coach? What were the soft starts?

• 43:34Speaker 02

  The female coach.

• 43:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's a heartbreaking story. It makes me really upset.

• 43:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. It's very confusing when it is this slow burn because for context, having a full tuition scholarship, this woman owns you and you have to do everything she says. My freshman year when she was speaking to all the freshmen, you want her attention. Because you wanna be the freshman, that's the standout freshman. In the beginning of freshman year, everything felt fine. If anything, I was vying for her attention. I'm trying my hardest. I'm playing my hardest. I'm staying after if we need to pick up the water bottles. I'm going the extra mile. And then I would say,

• 44:17Speaker 02

  Towards the end of our fall freshman semester, I started to feel her just coming over to me at practice more and asking how I was doing. And I really genuinely thought that that was her deeming me like, I'm going to invest in you. And this is all you can ask for.

• 44:37Dax Shepard?

  That's what you want.

• 44:38Speaker 02

  Because she's the holder of your playing time and all of it. So freshman year, it was what I thought was normal. And then freshman spring semester is a lot of training sessions. And I do remember her just really wanting to, let's really get ready for next season. Come have a meeting with me. And that's when the one-on-one sessions started a lot. She was starting to really fixate on me. And I again was just like, this is great. To anyone that didn't play sports in especially college, I had six girls in my grade. So as much as we're all best friends, you're competing.

• 45:19Speaker 02

  You didn't really share too much information at that time with your teammates because everyone's competing in a way. So sometimes I wouldn't tell my teammates that she asked for a one-on-one.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  What are the nature of the one-on-ones?

• 45:30Dax Shepard?

  You also don't want to make them jealous. Or they're just going to hate you if you're the coach's pet.

• 45:34Speaker 02

  The first beginnings of one-on-ones were a mix of lightly talking about my soccer abilities and then just asking me about myself. And again, I just thought she's trying to get to know me and she wants me to feel comfortable here. And then sophomore year, everything changed. My freshman summer going into sophomore year, a lot of girls stayed in Boston to train because August comes and you've got to be in the best shape of your life. And she would come around during training sessions in summer. And it felt different since schools had a session. It felt more like. We weren't in school. It felt like anything could happen.

• 46:13Speaker 01

  Camp vibes.

• 46:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, everyone's acting a little less professional. She would come around more and I definitely noticed her continuously like, "Hey Coop, come talk to me over here." And I'm like, "But it's summer. I don't have to. Why do I have to keep fucking talking to you? All the girls are going to the guy's frat party. I want to go and I'm having to stay back." And sophomore year started and that's really when I started to interact with more guys. She was getting wind of me starting to date men. And I will never forget, I got dropped off. Um, sorry, I'm like shaking. I haven't said this story.

• 46:50Dax Shepard?

  Well, let's acknowledge this because you and I talked about this. I have had the experience where I get to share my thing, but I get to edit it and I get to be in control of it.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:59Dax Shepard?

  And then ultimately it goes out into the wilderness. And so this is a big part of the doc.

• 47:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:03Dax Shepard?

  And it's going out into the wilderness and it's scary.

• 47:06Speaker 02

  So sophomore year, I'm getting dropped off by this guy that I was seeing and my assistant coach saw me. You're allowed to. Like all these girls are sleeping off campus. Some of these girls live with their boyfriends. And I get called in for a one-on-one. And I'm like, what could this be? And at this point, the one-on-ones are starting to get so often, we don't talk about soccer anymore. She's just talking to me about my personal self. I'm definitely starting to get more uncomfortable. This is excessive. And now my teammates are starting to recognize and starting to be like, "What do you guys talk about?" And still though, there was a jealousy element. People being like, "Why do you get so many one-on-ones?" Because people would ask for one-on-ones and she'd be like, "We can talk in a week and a half." And I'm in there almost every other fucking day.

• 47:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 47:52Speaker 02

  And so I go in and this was the one moment that I vividly remember feeling so out of body. I walk in having no concept of what we're going to talk about. And she says, "I heard that you got dropped off by a guy this morning." And I'm like,

• 48:12Dax Shepard?

  Oof.

• 48:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:13Dax Shepard?

  That's right.

• 48:15Speaker 02

  And she goes, I don't know if you should be sleeping off campus, Alex. And I'm like.

• 48:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. What are you supposed to say? The only answer is that's none of your fucking business and you can't say that.

• 48:25Speaker 02

  My only relation to this woman was her telling me what to do and then me doing it.

• 48:30Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly.

• 48:31Speaker 02

  So even that, I'm a little like, oh, I, in my body knew this was the first line. And then I said, coach, all the other girls sleep off campus with their boyfriends. And then she looked at me and said, did you have sex last night?

• 48:47Speaker 01

  What?

• 48:48Dax Shepard?

  Now, really quick, if I try to imagine this experience, for a while I'd be like, am I imagining something's crazy? Some part of me at that question would go like, right, I'm not nuts. I now know what this is. Or you already knew what it was.

• 49:01Speaker 01

  I don't know if you were able to step outside of it.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  What was so frustrating, and I think that's why it's so hard to talk about it, is because I

• 49:09Speaker 02

  was so beholden to this woman and anything she told me to do, I had to do. And this was the thing I worked my entire life to get to. So I just kicked into fight or flight survival mode where in 30 minutes I have to go on the field. And this woman is gonna tell me what to do.

• 49:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 49:29Speaker 02

  And it's in front of all of my best friends and my peers and my teammates who I respect. And I want them to respect me. So I'm really trying to downplay it in my head and I'm trying to compartmentalize. I am a more outgoing person and I'm trying to justify anything that I can to suppress it and make it okay and normal.

• 49:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, deescalate it.

• 49:52Speaker 02

  I couldn't tell you what I said. I blacked out so hard in that moment. I think a lot of times I tried to divert the conversation. So I'd be like, wait, did we know if holy cross, um, is there a striker still? And I would just start talking about soccer.

• 50:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:09Speaker 02

  And she would meet me back with Alex.

• 50:12Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 50:13Speaker 02

  In these meetings, you're alone. It's just. Horrible. I literally felt like I was in this cage and I didn't know what to do other than sit and be quiet and listen to her. I started to try to get a little bit, as I got older, just a little bit more, not stern, but I'm not going to engage in this. And then she stopped playing me.

• 50:35Dax Shepard?

  I'll add, she would do the film playback, as you do in all sports, and she would pause moments to talk about someone's move. And then she would do these long sessions where all she would talk about is how Alex looks and how graceful she is. Break her down physically.

• 50:50Speaker 02

  That film session, I think, was the moment my teammates all started to really notice it, but of course couldn't speak up because they also are on scholarship and they're trying to fight for their playing time. The film session, I think, was the first really obvious moment to my teammates. This is inappropriate.

• 51:11Dax Shepard?

  What's interesting is she's losing control.

• 51:14Speaker 02

  Because she's doing it publicly.

• 51:15Dax Shepard?

  Yes. That's a fascinating part. She's on some crazy arc, right?

• 51:19Speaker 02

  She couldn't help herself.

• 51:20Dax Shepard?

  And she was satiated with just sitting with you for a while, but then she needed to up that. And then it was this. And now she's losing control of this whole thing herself.

• 51:27Speaker 02

  And it was all on her time. Give her more attention, indulge her, more playing time.

• 51:32Dax Shepard?

  She told you not to live with your roommate. She kicked your roommate off the team.

• 51:36Speaker 02

  It was all isolation tactics. And that session, I barely played. And when you're in film sessions, you're going over the biggest plays of the game, or the pain points, or where did it break down? And she put me in for like three fucking minutes at the end of a half. I didn't score. Nothing happened.

• 51:54Dax Shepard?

  Ran around.

• 51:54Speaker 02

  No reason to be talking about you. Exactly. No reason to be talking about me. And she pauses it multiple times. Everybody, look at Alex. Look at her hair. You can't not notice her on the field. Look how blonde her hair is. Look at her skin. Would always talk about how I would wear my shorts. Like, the detail. I tried so hard in these moments to be strong in front of my teammates because I wanted to be a leader. And I remember getting back into my locker room. And that was one of the moments, because it was just a really hell of a week with her. And I sat down and I just had tears streaming down my face, sitting in my locker. All of my teammates, individually or collectively in groups throughout the 30 minutes, because then we had to go out to practice, were like, Cooper, what the hell? What is going on?

• 52:39Speaker 02

  I'm so sorry, that was so inappropriate. My captains came up to me. And so that was the first big moment. But then it continued. We're outside, we're playing a game where you have to kick the soccer ball far and then you trap it. And she goes, wait, before we start this training session, though, there's one rule. Whoever gets Alex on their team, you have to go below her neck because we wouldn't want to mess up her money makers. Those teeth are her money makers. And everyone in practice would just be like, okay. And I'm standing there, humiliated, disgusted, isolated. So this went on and on and on and on and on. And I think I started to just give up on soccer.

• 53:23Dax Shepard?

  There's one moment that's really so fucking wild to watch, which is she's punishing you, she won't play you, she puts you in at one point, you score the goal, and there's a press conference afterwards. And you and presumably the other player who had scored are there and the coach is there. And she's furious because you are having sex with a boy and that's why she was punishing you and you scored this goal. And she will not say Alex's name. She'll say like, we got lucky with one of the scorers. And then her body language, she's not a coach. She is someone embroiled in this insane fantasy about you.

• 54:00Speaker 02

  You can see my face when I get handed the microphone. I am trying to downplay it because when I would get attention, and it wasn't how she decided, she would become very enraged. And it was all on her time because it was a really, really strange case of sexual harassment where it was attraction and resentment.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  I think that's common.

• 54:23Speaker 02

  Yes, and the resentment aspect was so heavily dictating my ability to play soccer. And so it was this push and pull where I never knew when I was going to be on the field or off.

• 54:38Dax Shepard?

  Doing the thing you had committed your life to. You have been working at this for 10 years and you're at the place that you were working to get. And now it's this horrendous experience that you can't escape.

• 54:49Speaker 02

  I think one of the most twisted things, and I lightly talk about it in the documentary, was it was my junior year and that's when I was probably at the peak of my game. I was really doing well. Now I knew what was going on. I called home since my freshman year and my mom would just take notes.

• 55:07Dax Shepard?

  She was writing it all down.

• 55:08Speaker 02

  Because being someone in the field of therapy, my mom would just chronicle. I'm in it, but she was able to read back from freshman year now. And she's like, Alex, this is getting out of hand.

• 55:18Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, she could see the escalation.

• 55:19Speaker 02

  Because of the dynamic I'm explaining with my teammates, I really only confided in one of my teammates. And her name happens to also be Alex. And Alex was aware of what was going on. And no one else really knew the deep, deep details, but everyone knew. Every single person, if you walked up to them and said, what is Alex and Coach's relationship? They would say, something is so off. Coach treats Alex different than every other player on this team. That is a fact. And we finish after our season and I had the best season ever. It was after that goal and everyone's like, you're getting capped in. And my mom's like, just be prepared. And I will never forget, I'm sitting in my dorm room and my roommate and best friend Alex goes for her one-on-one to finish the year. And Alex was a good player. She wasn't the best player.

• 56:04Speaker 02

  She wasn't the worst. She was incredible at fitness. She always won fitness tests. And she goes in and my coach just says, you're done. You're off the team. And Alex is like, I've never had a warning. What do you mean I'm off the team? And she said, you're done. You can keep your scholarship though. Which means something is wrong. Because if she did something wrong, you could take away her scholarship and get her off the team. This girl gets to walk on campus with a scholarship and she's not going to have to play soccer. So you're acknowledging something's off. They handed her a garbage bag and she calls me from the locker room sobbing. And I remember I dropped to the floor and I have a panic attack because I realize, one, oh my God, my poor friend.

• 56:44Speaker 02

  How is this girl who has also worked her whole life, fucking collateral in this horrible situation? The guilt I felt.

• 56:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you have caused this somehow.

• 56:54Speaker 02

  This was a complete isolation tactic. No one knew the detail except for Alex. And she just pulled the one. Person away that knew everything.

• 57:00Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 57:01Speaker 02

  And so I go in for my one on one and she puts me on probation. I have like a three, five GPA at this point. I have done nothing but excel in soccer. And mind you, there are girls on my team who have been sent to the hospital to get their stomach pumped from drinking and they got a slap on the wrist and I'm getting probation. She says, do you see what I did to your friend Alex?

• 57:24Dax Shepard?

  Oh my, this is like a horror movie.

• 57:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. She says, you're going to live with who I want you to live with.

• 57:30Dax Shepard?

  Stop.

• 57:31Speaker 02

  You're going to do exactly what I say. And if you don't hit all of those things I just handed you, then we're going to have a hard problem here. Alex, me, mom, like, I thought I was coming in here to get captain. Yeah. How is this happening? And when you look at the probation letter, what makes me sick is there was nothing tangible that I could hit. It was all to her discretion and one of them was, and it makes me so emotional. That reason I was on probation is I missed one of my night classes. So many kids missed more classes. And the reason I missed that night class was because the week before was when she started to insist that she drive me alone to my night class. And I just,

• 58:12Speaker 02

  I just like, I couldn't do it. I just was like, I don't want to get in the car with that woman again. So I made up an excuse that I was sick and I didn't go and to see it on that probation. If you showed anyone that they'd be like, well, you missed a class. And I'm like, but why did I miss specifically my night class? And I just remember feeling so sick to my stomach. This entire thing is just meant now to control me even more, to have more one on ones with me, to get me alone, to isolate me. And I was just like, I can't do this anymore. Cause I knew it's gonna get so much worse. This is going to be a living hell. And so I call my parents and my mom is like, we gotta come up.

• 58:50Dax Shepard?

  It's time.

• 58:51Speaker 02

  It's time. So my parents come up and we request a meeting with the dean of athletics. And we go in for this meeting and my mom brings the entire notebook, all of the harassment that I had endured.

• 59:02Dax Shepard?

  It's a beast of a folder.

• 59:03Speaker 02

  It's insane. This woman takes notes. Okay.

• 59:07Speaker 02

  We say, "My daughter has been being sexually harassed by Nancy Feldman since her freshman year here on this campus, and it has now gotten so bad to the point where she is threatening, basically, our daughter's scholarship if she doesn't abide by more of her rules, and this has gotten so out of hand. We need your help." And in that moment, I was so sad that it had come to this point. I don't want to be doing this. I never wanted to meet the dean of athletics. I don't want to be in this position, but I knew in order for me to continue playing, I couldn't play for this woman anymore, and she couldn't be my coach. She couldn't control herself anymore.

• 59:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 59:46Speaker 02

  And my mom is like, "I've written down every single thing. Here you go." And he won't open the book.

• 59:51Speaker 01

  No.

• 59:52Speaker 02

  He doesn't ask any questions. He sits in silence, and then he just looks at me and says, "What do you want?"

• 1:00:00Dax Shepard?

  That should be obvious to you what I want.

• 1:00:02Speaker 02

  Right. And I said, "I want to keep playing soccer. I want to play my senior year with my teammates and what I've worked my entire life for. I want to play, but I can't keep being sexually harassed by this woman. I need to be protected. I need you guys to help me." And they say, "Well, we are not getting rid of Nancy Feldman. She is a decorated coach here. She had been the only coach who had come through that organization at the time for women's soccer. She had plaques all over the university. She was celebrated. She was decorated." And they said, "We will not be getting rid of her. So you can keep playing, or you don't need to play and you can keep your scholarship."

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 1:00:39Speaker 02

  And after a pretty short meeting, I said, "I guess then I can't play soccer anymore. And you all win, and I'm gonna leave, and I'll keep my scholarship, and that's that." I left with my parents that day, and I got in the car, and I had a breakdown, and I was crying. And I remember feeling so angry, and I found out through a teammate that the next day Nancy went, "Hey, everyone, just want to let you know Alex Cooper is no longer on the team. Not sure why she quit, but she quit and she left you guys, so that's up to her." And said something along the lines of hoping no one else would quit, because what a fucking sore loser.

• 1:01:15Dax Shepard?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:01:17Speaker 01

  But they all knew.

• 1:01:19Speaker 02

  They knew, but again, it's like back to work.

• 1:01:23Dax Shepard?

  Also, to what degree did they know? Do they know she's driving her to her night classes?

• 1:01:27Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no, no. There's so many terrible fallouts from all of this. But one of the hardest fallouts was how many friends I lost. I didn't blame them and I know they didn't blame me, but it became really hard to maintain these friendships when they're trying to continue to play for this woman.

• 1:01:44Dax Shepard?

  And they're feeling some guilt about that, I'm sure.

• 1:01:47Speaker 02

  And they can't stand up.

• 1:01:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, look what happened.

• 1:01:49Speaker 01

  They have to turn a blind eye.

• 1:01:50Dax Shepard?

  And the notion that you were made to quit.

• 1:01:53Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:01:53Dax Shepard?

  When you're defining yourself by someone who doesn't quit, does the extra thing, and now you've been put in a position where you have to quit.

• 1:02:00Speaker 02

  I really tried to repackage myself and pretend like I was okay. I really didn't want them to think I was hurting. So I was social and I was trying to just pretend. But internally, I was broken and I was devastated. And I reconnected with one of my teammates. We met in Santa Monica and she just broke down crying. And she was just like, I think we all knew, but we were so scared.

• 1:02:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:25Speaker 02

  And we all had to protect ourselves. So many of these girls are on scholarships. This is their livelihood, so everyone's out for themselves. But it was validating a little bit as time has gone on to hear that from my teammates. We kind of knew. I didn't know the extent, and I know this is going to come out and I'm going to get reached out to again because I still didn't even share the full extent.

• 1:02:41Dax Shepard?

  Listen, how well do 40-year-olds in a workplace deal with this kind of thing? And these are like all 20-year-olds.

• 1:02:47Speaker 02

  That was something that I carried for a really, really long time. I had met with a lawyer before I went in with the dean of athletics. He said, you have a full sexual harassment case, but do you want to be the girl on campus suing? And he said, I know you said you wanted to go into the entertainment business. This is something that's going to follow you for a very long time. These people will drag this out. This is not your senior year and done. This is years of a potential lawsuit. It may affect you getting a job. It may affect a lot of parts of your life. And I wanted to sue because there was the part where I was like, I need something, like I need justice. I also need my teammates to see.

• 1:03:23Dax Shepard?

  How else are you going to stop it as well?

• 1:03:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:25Dax Shepard?

  A lawsuit probably ends in a more dramatic response from the school.

• 1:03:29Speaker 02

  I don't know the right answer. And as time has gone on, it has weighed on me. Would I have done something differently? And I don't think I would have because I'm so fortunate that now I have a platform where I'm now about to speak about this. But the thing that really gets me is I am so aware of my privilege. I am a white, privileged woman who has a platform. I have money, I have resources, I have power, and I'm still scared to tell this story.

• 1:03:58Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think about this all the time. I talk about having been molested quite openly. I've never said the person's name. I battled this thing like, has my unwillingness to do that resulted in this person having more victims? Did they grow out of that? I definitely wrestle with that.

• 1:04:15Speaker 02

  It is hard, and now it's exactly almost a decade later that this happened. And if I'm scared to talk about this, can you imagine a woman who doesn't have my privilege? How the fuck is anyone feeling comfortable to talk about this?

• 1:04:27Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:04:28Speaker 02

  To clarify again, I was no one when this happened to me. I had nothing. I had supportive parents, but I didn't have a platform. I didn't have money. And I came forward and I got denied. I was failed. I went to the athletic director, told him about this, and he basically told me to fuck off. He wouldn't even read it. So who am I to say, come forward? It didn't work. It didn't work.

• 1:04:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:04:50Speaker 02

  And the fact that that athletic director is still there to this day. Is she still there? So she retired. And I'll say this, which I didn't say in the documentary. Why I decided to come forward with this is this documentary was actually really meant for me to just show the behind the scenes of my tour and how I got to where I am, because the tour monologue in the beginning that I do is about my rise. The director was like, I want to bring your childhood in and show the rise of you. And when I opened in Boston, which was very symbolic, my tour, the director, I had lightly told her about my soccer experience. And she knew that I wasn't sure if I wanted to share it with her. And so she said, can you do me a favor? Can we just go back to the field?

• 1:05:35Speaker 02

  And let's see what it brings up for you. We never have to use the footage. You never have to tell the story, but let's just go. And I was reluctant because I was just like, I don't know if I want to do all this. I'm also very aware, I don't want this to come off as a victimhood story from someone that's privileged. I was like, ugh. And so we go back and it's the first time that I saw Nickerson Field is what it's called. And I remember getting there and stepping foot on that field.

• 1:06:02Speaker 02

  And I felt so small. I felt like I was right back in it. And I've done years of therapy.

• 1:06:10Speaker 01

  And you're on top of the world. I mean, you currently are, and then you're immediately transported back to that old person.

• 1:06:16Speaker 02

  This still is so painful and lives in me, and I just started crying. And that was the first, because there's two, that was the first moment where I was like, I think I gotta talk about this. Because conversation has been the power in my life since starting Call Her Daddy. And it's how I've healed a lot of things. I've healed things with other people. And this is the one thing, I'm like, I'm a fraud. How can I not talk about this? I gotta go there.

• 1:06:43Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

• 1:06:55Dax Shepard?

  There's nothing relatable about you signing a deal with Sirius.

• 1:06:59Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:07:00Dax Shepard?

  There's nothing relatable about you with this fucking gorgeous stud, Matt, as a husband. None of that sues anyone.

• 1:07:06Speaker 02

  This is the real shit.

• 1:07:07Dax Shepard?

  This is what the point is.

• 1:07:09Speaker 01

  So many people sadly have versions of this story.

• 1:07:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:13Speaker 01

  And are not their own boss and have a platform and can't. So I think on behalf of all those people, it's so beautiful that you're talking and doing it.

• 1:07:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's not because you're gonna encourage someone to stand up in some way. It's to say, she's done it. She talked about it. She's still alive, and in fact, she's still thriving.

• 1:07:33Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:07:34Dax Shepard?

  And you go, fuck, maybe I could unburden myself a little bit.

• 1:07:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, you bought people some hope, I think.

• 1:07:39Speaker 02

  That was the true catalyst of, holy shit. I talk to people every week about their trauma and things they've gone through, and I've been so open on my podcast. But this thing, I was so nervous to talk about it because, one, retaliation. When you come out, and I'm naming her name.

• 1:08:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:02Speaker 02

  And I don't know what she's gonna do, but I'm ready for that now. And it took me 10 years.

• 1:08:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and a war chest.

• 1:08:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:09Speaker 02

  And so I think retaliation was one thing where I'm like, I don't know what Boss University and she are gonna do, but I'm ready. I think the other part was I was very anxious to tell this because it's so emotional and personal to me that I don't want it to be up for public fodder.

• 1:08:28Dax Shepard?

  But you're gonna find out that those opinions aren't coming your way.

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  Also, if it does, it will be matched with so many people giving you so much gratitude.

• 1:08:35Dax Shepard?

  I don't even think it's gonna happen.

• 1:08:37Speaker 01

  Well, the internet's gross, so potentially.

• 1:08:39Speaker 02

  I know what happened and I'm so proud of myself for telling this story. I could have made it a docu-series. There's so much more to this, but I really think it is such a huge part of why I am the way I am and why I have the conversations I do on my podcast. And I think people are a little dumbfounded of how I steered it a certain way after all the sex and relationships. I'm like, to my core, I have a story within me that I've never been able to share. And if anything, I give back to all of my guests who have shared with me because I genuinely believe they have been what has allowed me now to be in the chair being like, okay, I'm gonna finally tell this. But the other side of

• 1:09:22Speaker 02

  it was, and this I didn't share in the documentary because I was like, this is an other part of it. But in the middle of filming the documentary, more information came to light. And I got involved with the NWSL and I'm so excited. It was like a reclaiming moment for myself.

• 1:09:39Dax Shepard?

  Is that the soccer?

• 1:09:39Speaker 02

  The National Women's Soccer League. And that was this beautiful moment where I got to reengage and go back to soccer and how cool that it's with my hydration drink and I'm the hydration league sponsor. And it was such a full circle moment for me to be like, wow, I can come back to the thing I love. And it was very emotional even just going to these games. I'm meeting some of the legends of the sport, Abby Wambach and Brittany Chastain. But the first game of their opening season, I went to and I reconnected with a former teammate who plays professionally. And I gave her a heads up about the documentary. And I was just like, I just wanted you to know. I know you were a senior when I was a freshman, but this is what's happening. And she was like, Cooper, I'm so fucking sorry. You know, it's still happening, right?

• 1:10:23Speaker 02

  And I just remember the whole field went dark and I just felt again so small because you try to convince yourself it's just you. You rationalize it. Maybe it was just me. They're not going to keep doing it. And when I was at BU, Nancy Feldman was the head coach and there was an assistant coach at the time who was my assistant coach and she watched the harassment. They'd be in chairs like this. Most of the time it was one on ones, but there were a few times where my assistant coach was in the room and I vividly remember a meeting that was getting uncomfortable and I turned to her and I said her name and I said, "Help, please help me." And she physically turned her head away. She went on to become the head coach at BU and she just did the same thing, if not worse, to another woman

• 1:11:08Speaker 02

  on that campus. Of course, if you look up online, it says she resigned and she is now able to go and coach at any university. And I spoke to the player. It was a really hard conversation to hear that this is systemic. She watched Nancy have no

• 1:11:27Dax Shepard?

  ramifications.

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  Nothing. And she got to leave there. Her pictures are on the walls. She's retired. She's living life. She's a legacy. So why the fuck would the assistant coach not follow right in her footsteps and do the same goddamn thing? There's not a public statement of all the people came forward and this is what happened and this is what this coach did. Nothing. She resigned. And that was the moment in the middle filming the documentary where I called the director and I said, "I'm ready."

• 1:11:54Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:11:55Speaker 02

  "I'm ready to sit down and tell the story because it's no longer about me."

• 1:11:58Dax Shepard?

  It's just gonna keep going.

• 1:11:59Speaker 02

  It's gonna keep going. My heart just breaks because speaking to victims, again, I'm so aware of my privilege and as uncomfortable as it is for me to tell the story because it's so not who I am public facing. I wish I could have been like, "Of course no one could do that to me because I'm Alex fucking Cooper and I'm going to tell you to go fuck your..." Like, no, it happened to me.

• 1:12:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:21Speaker 02

  It did.

• 1:12:22Dax Shepard?

  Systems can be more powerful than people.

• 1:12:24Speaker 02

  I remember saying to my mom the other day, before this comes out, I just feel like everything I do on Call Her Daddy, I want To always end it on a high note, or a purpose, or a call to action. And I was like, Mom, I don't know what to tell people. I don't have the answer to every victim listening or watching. I know the fear of speaking up and not being believed, or being denied, and then losing everything. And I also know the fear of now not speaking up and losing yourself.

• 1:12:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a lose lose.

• 1:12:56Speaker 02

  It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. I sat with that athletic director and explained this abuse of power. And they basically looked at me and said, tough shit. And for it to continue to happen, now I knew that's when I'm like, alright, let's fucking go. Because this is not just happening on college campuses for NCAA, it's everywhere. It is in the workplace, it is in relationships. And when people are so confused, why didn't she do this, or why didn't she do that? When there is an abuse of power, it is a ton on top of that victim. You have to climb Mount fucking Everest and more to even feel like you have a sliver of a fucking hope to be believed and actually be protected if you come forward.

• 1:13:38Speaker 02

  Because my story is, I came forward and I was failed. So why the fuck would anyone come forward?

• 1:13:43Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:13:44Speaker 01

  It's an impossible situation for people. I hate that. Like, well, why didn't they just quit? Cause they've spent their whole life trying to get to that point. They're almost there. And you're picking your life or theirs, basically.

• 1:13:55Speaker 02

  Why did you stay in a work environment where your boss was sexually harassing you? Because it's my livelihood.

• 1:14:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. It does.

• 1:14:01Speaker 02

  Because they're paying my bills.

• 1:14:02Dax Shepard?

  They're not handing out jobs at 7-Eleven.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, good for you.

• 1:14:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:06Speaker 02

  It's a lot.

• 1:14:06Dax Shepard?

  I am very grateful that you made that decision, because that was an incredibly compelling and heartbreaking part of the story that is the reality.

• 1:14:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:18Dax Shepard?

  I was just thinking, I'm sure I can't imagine what your parents felt like, the level I would want to kill somebody over that kind of stuff.

• 1:14:25Speaker 02

  It's a lot, and I think it definitely had a lot of effects on me after college. I had such a difficult relationship to my body and working out. I could not step on a treadmill, because I just had this visual of

• 1:14:41Speaker 02

  Would always be in lines on treadmills and she would just stand at my fucking treadmill and watch me run and I loved running. I was fast. I loved it. And so to this day, I don't get on the treadmill because I can't. There's those little things. And then on top of that, when I went out into the workplace before I'll call her daddy and had jobs, I found myself, which is not my personality, but I found myself trying really hard to just blend in and it wasn't even conscious. I was just making sure that I wasn't standing out.

• 1:15:09Dax Shepard?

  You did not want to be someone's pet again.

• 1:15:12Speaker 02

  And it was hurting me.

• 1:15:13Speaker 01

  It's the girl with the red hair who had to blend in. And then you escaped that and then you had to blend in for the opposite reason. It keeps coming back.

• 1:15:22Speaker 02

  It's so true. Never feeling completely good in my skin. That's been a theme in my life. I can say it now because it's not as much what Call Her Daddy is, but at the beginning days, I did start to resent the character that I was building on Call Her Daddy when it was just about sex and relationships and I had a co-host. Of course, a lot of it was true, but I was enjoying playing this fantasy character in my head and it was doing something to my ego and my confidence that was building me up because I loved that I could re-engage with my sexuality and own it in a way that I really suppressed in college around her. I felt disgusting. I felt horrible. I just was creeped out and it just was awful. And

• 1:16:05Speaker 02

  so Call Her Daddy was really this beautiful moment where I poured everything into, no one is going to silence me again. There was also this drive of like, fuck you. I'm going to get so fucking big and you are going to shit your pants every day that I'm going to tell the fucking story. And I'm going to one day and I knew I was going to. It definitely took longer than I thought it was going to take, but that's also life and everyone's got to go on their own timeframe. And I'm still uncomfortable about it. I'm happy it's out there because I now know, I really feel like this will become something in my life that I take on.

• 1:16:39Dax Shepard?

  The dream is you stop judging yourself for all the things, pre, during, and post. You free yourself of that judgment. Well, I do want to say this. The doc also follows your Tour and I was thinking, this seems so natural for anyone on the outside. If they're a fan of yours and they listen to your show and you're very extroverted on the show and you're confident on the show, they would just assume, well, of course you can go on stage and do a stage show. But I was thinking, watching this, this is enormous fucking swing for you. I was a groundling first. I was on a stage every Sunday doing comedy. And when we walk out, we have a whole routine. I have to dial into the music and just be joyful about the music and then forget what's gonna happen next.

• 1:17:24Dax Shepard?

  I've had a lot of stage experience. Yeah, so I totally admire that you're like, yes, we're gonna do it in a humongous theater and we're gonna do it with a bunch of production. But were you terrified?

• 1:17:35Speaker 02

  I was so nervous because in the school play, we had Wizard of Oz and they made me a munchkin. And I was in the back and you couldn't even see me. And I was like, I'm not meant to be on a stage. And then when this idea came, of course, I am such a crazy person and want to do everything tenfold. So I was like, it can't be a podcast tour. It needs to be theater and Broadway meets Vegas and dancers and Magic Mike. And then when I got there at opening night, I was like, fuck me. What did I sign myself up for? I have no idea what I'm doing. But it was something that I like to push myself. I'm sure you're at this point in your career where it's like, just go for things. And I was really proud of myself. But no, I definitely know my fans probably thought it was easy for me.

• 1:18:18Speaker 02

  I really struggled when I would get off that stage. Matt was always joking. He was like, I hope you don't get addicted to this. Cause you know how people love the like, the screen.

• 1:18:27Speaker 01

  Get the bug.

• 1:18:28Speaker 02

  After night one, I turned him, I said, don't worry, I'm not addicted. I never want to do this again, only because it was the most magical thing to do it with my fans. But the pressure I was putting on myself.

• 1:18:41Dax Shepard?

  It's just looming over you.

• 1:18:42Speaker 02

  I would lay in bed all day, eat chicken fingers and fucking meditate and call my therapist five times. Be like, I'm gonna be okay, right? And when I was out there, I actually was enjoying it. But the minute I got off, I was like, I feel like the biggest introvert. Take me home and never let me do that again. It was truly one of the greatest experiences of my career and I don't regret it for a second. But it was the most challenging thing I've ever done. A last point I'll give is I have to give so much credit to my husband. I couldn't do the things I'm doing without his support. He is. My biggest fan, he is there for me in every moment. And he makes it so much more enjoyable than if I was doing it alone. Shout out, Matt. We love you.

• 1:19:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you guys have a very, very good working relationship. I can relate. Like, some people go, like, how do you work with? And I'm like, oh, no, those are the easiest.

• 1:19:33Speaker 02

  The easiest. People think I'm insane when I say that.

• 1:19:35Dax Shepard?

  It's very lucky, though. I think for most people, they couldn't work together.

• 1:19:37Speaker 02

  Oh, no. You'd be like, I'm gonna kill you. Every morning, Matt and I are brushing our teeth. We're like, oh, man, how fun we get to, like, go to the office together. And everyone's like, you're both ill. I'm like, well, we like it. We have fun.

• 1:19:46Dax Shepard?

  Have you seen her husband?

• 1:19:48Speaker 01

  I don't think so.

• 1:19:49Speaker 02

  Dax is in love with him.

• 1:19:50Dax Shepard?

  He's outrageously gorgeous.

• 1:19:52Speaker 02

  That's the first thing you said to Matt when you met him.

• 1:19:54Dax Shepard?

  The second I saw him at the airport, I immediately was like, oh, my God, you're so fucking gorgeous. And then I'm saying to you, good job. This guy's fucking gorgeous. And I think later I found out from him, he thought I was making fun of him. I'm like, no, no, no. I sincerely, but here's what's crazy, Monica.

• 1:20:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:08Dax Shepard?

  It was deeper than just that. Because now, as I've become friendly with him on this trip, I start researching you both in my hotel room. And guess what I discovered?

• 1:20:18Speaker 01

  I know what you're gonna say.

• 1:20:19Dax Shepard?

  You already know.

• 1:20:19Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 1:20:20Dax Shepard?

  What?

• 1:20:21Speaker 02

  You both dated the same person?

• 1:20:22Speaker 01

  Yes, you had, you share an ex-lover that I am obsessed with.

• 1:20:25Dax Shepard?

  And it's deeper than that.

• 1:20:27Speaker 02

  What?

• 1:20:27Dax Shepard?

  I then went, oh, yes, yes, yes, I've totally seen him before. Because the first time I ever saw her in real life, she was with him dating. Look at this fucking guy. This guy has got it made. He's fucking gorgeous. Someone's like, yeah, he plays college football. I'm like, oh, my God, this guy's a college football player? That's his girlfriend? And he looks like that? I became more obsessed with him that day than her. And then

• 1:20:54Speaker 02

  25 years later.

• 1:20:55Dax Shepard?

  I'm in my bed, putting all this together, like, oh, yes, I've always been obsessed with this guy.

• 1:20:59Speaker 02

  I am obsessed. No, your guy's love affair is adorable.

• 1:21:03Speaker 01

  She's in this room.

• 1:21:04Speaker 02

  I know. I see her behind you. Yes. No, it's really cute.

• 1:21:07Dax Shepard?

  And then I'm like, how do I now tell him tomorrow at breakfast, hey, I discovered this?

• 1:21:11Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:21:11Dax Shepard?

  I was researching you.

• 1:21:13Speaker 02

  And I'm obsessed with you, Matt. He's such an interesting guy. He's so shy and reserved at first. And then, once you get to know him, he gets more open. But I remember at first, he was literally like, oh, my God, I don't know. To say to that. I'm like, Matt, he thinks you're hot. Take the compliment. He's like, okay.

• 1:21:27Speaker 01

  It's confusing for a lot of men to hear it and women.

• 1:21:31Dax Shepard?

  I get it too. I was like, well, you're assuming he feels as confident as he is visually, which no one is.

• 1:21:38Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:21:38Dax Shepard?

  And if someone came up to me like, God, you're so fucking gorgeous. Yeah. Okay, dude.

• 1:21:41Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:21:42Dax Shepard?

  What is this about?

• 1:21:43Speaker 01

  Or you think they're trying to assert some sort of power.

• 1:21:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:46Speaker 01

  I would feel like that.

• 1:21:47Dax Shepard?

  I was just trying to bow to the beauty. I mean, fuck.

• 1:21:50Speaker 02

  Bow to the beauty.

• 1:21:51Dax Shepard?

  He deserves it.

• 1:21:52Speaker 02

  That is amazing.

• 1:21:53Dax Shepard?

  What a hunk. Well, I love the doc.

• 1:21:55Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:21:56Dax Shepard?

  I think it's so good. I don't think you should be nervous at all. I think everyone's gonna really love it. You debut at Tribeca.

• 1:22:01Speaker 02

  Tribeca Film Festival on June 8th, and then it comes out June 10th on Hulu.

• 1:22:07Dax Shepard?

  Which is now your second project you'll have at Hulu. You also have a dating show.

• 1:22:11Speaker 02

  Yes, we have a dating show that we're actually about to start filming in Malta. And I just picked the cast. It's been so fun to cast a dating show because I'm such a dating whore. And I'm like, oh my God, I love these shows. So to get to watch tapes and interview people and see who they are. I know multiple of these people. I'm like, your life is gonna change. You're gonna be so famous.

• 1:22:31Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:22:31Speaker 02

  So it's very exciting. I'm not hosting it. We have a fun host that I can't announce, but it will be fun. And it's gonna be on a boat in Malta. I'm like, this is hot.

• 1:22:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's called.

• 1:22:39Speaker 02

  It's a working title right now, but basically it's overboard for love, but they're all on a yacht.

• 1:22:43Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:22:45Speaker 02

  So, yeah, Hulu.

• 1:22:46Dax Shepard?

  I'm a sucker for those shows.

• 1:22:47Speaker 02

  They're fun. They're fun.

• 1:22:49Dax Shepard?

  Well, listen, I think we'll both say we're super flattered to be peers of yours.

• 1:22:53Speaker 02

  Look how full circle. When we met at Spotify, we were like, and now we're like hugging and we're friends.

• 1:22:59Dax Shepard?

  I'm rooting, rooting, rooting, rooting.

• 1:23:01Speaker 02

  I'm rooting for you too.

• 1:23:01Dax Shepard?

  I'm so happy for you.

• 1:23:02Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:23:03Dax Shepard?

  All right. Well, I adore you.

• 1:23:04Speaker 02

  Yes. Love you guys. Thank you. Oh man, I cried.

• 1:23:10Dax Shepard?

  I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode, but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong.

• 1:23:19Dax Shepard?

  Hi.

• 1:23:20Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 1:23:20Dax Shepard?

  How are you?

• 1:23:21Speaker 01

  I'm good. How are you?

• 1:23:23Dax Shepard?

  I'm good. My son's visiting.

• 1:23:26Speaker 01

  Yes, he is.

• 1:23:28Dax Shepard?

  And we have one of our big nights planned for tonight.

• 1:23:31Speaker 01

  What are you gonna do?

• 1:23:32Dax Shepard?

  We're gonna go with Eric and Nate.

• 1:23:35Speaker 01

  Fine.

• 1:23:35Dax Shepard?

  To Morton's.

• 1:23:36Speaker 01

  Oh, and you're gonna have diarrhea. You're not gonna smoke cigarettes.

• 1:23:40Dax Shepard?

  You're gonna talk on the phone at the table like a hard line. Smoke cigarettes, drink, um, I guess martinis is what you drink.

• 1:23:47Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:23:48Dax Shepard?

  And then maybe some honus.

• 1:23:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:50Dax Shepard?

  On the way out.

• 1:23:50Speaker 01

  A little honus.

• 1:23:52Dax Shepard?

  But this, this night, the sky's the limit because Kristen and Lincoln are out of town.

• 1:23:59Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:24:00Dax Shepard?

  They're in New York.

• 1:24:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:01Dax Shepard?

  And, uh, so it's me, Delta and Aaron. We've dubbed it Boys Time. She, in fact, insisted that he call her a boy yesterday.

• 1:24:11Speaker 01

  Oh, okay, great, great.

• 1:24:12Dax Shepard?

  This is guys' time.

• 1:24:13Speaker 01

  Guys' time, okay, great.

• 1:24:14Dax Shepard?

  They're all out there. This is bros' time. A lot of bros' time going on. But, uh, so I asked Carly, can, can Delta come over tonight? So that I can go out to eat with the boys? Can she come hang at your house? And she's like, of course. And then Delta was immediately like, see if she, is it okay if I have a sleepover?

• 1:24:33Speaker 01

  Fine.

• 1:24:34Dax Shepard?

  So now they're having a sleepover, which everyone's excited about.

• 1:24:38Speaker 01

  So you're home alone.

• 1:24:39Dax Shepard?

  Guilt free for me to have the night entirely off. So I don't know where this night will take Aaron and I, because I do have light fantasies of us tackling all the hiking trails on the electric motorcycles.

• 1:24:52Speaker 01

  At night?

• 1:24:52Dax Shepard?

  At night, because it's illegal.

• 1:24:54Speaker 01

  Can you just like?

• 1:24:55Dax Shepard?

  It sounds like such an adventure.

• 1:24:57Speaker 01

  Do the right thing. Just watch TV.

• 1:24:59Dax Shepard?

  No, what about a, what about an enchanted motorcycle ride under the moonlight?

• 1:25:04Speaker 01

  Why can't you just do it in, god, exactly. It's like you have this beautiful house, you have a theater room, you have all this, and it's not enough.

• 1:25:11Dax Shepard?

  Oh, it's enough.

• 1:25:12Speaker 01

  Now you're back to nature.

• 1:25:14Dax Shepard?

  There you go. It's not, it's, I think it's in the right direction. It's back what we would do when we were broke.

• 1:25:20Speaker 01

  You could have just then done it and not had any of this stuff.

• 1:25:24Dax Shepard?

  But I didn't have electric motorcycle. It would have to be a noisy endeavor.

• 1:25:27Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:25:27Dax Shepard?

  In the past, but now we can do it quite peacefully. No one will be disturbed and we could have a real adventure that few people have had. I'm just putting it out there. I don't even know that my son will be up for it. My son is gets nappy, you know?

• 1:25:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's a tired boy.

• 1:25:39Dax Shepard?

  He gets tired and he's on a different time zone.

• 1:25:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, true. I'm sorry if I'm grumpy. I have a big grievance. I don't, I don't know if I'm like, I feel kind of bad. airing it, but I also don't feel bad because um. This is really, really bad.

• 1:25:59Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:26:00Speaker 01

  Like a month or two ago.

• 1:26:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:03Speaker 01

  I booked a trip for Hawaii for July.

• 1:26:06Dax Shepard?

  Hmm, would by yourself?

• 1:26:08Speaker 01

  Ish. So like I booked it and the plan was that Anna was gonna come and that maybe some other people would come and we turned into a thing.

• 1:26:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:15Speaker 01

  But I also knew I didn't really know my July schedule fully and that I would might have to cancel it.

• 1:26:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. What island did you pick?

• 1:26:23Speaker 01

  It was more about the hotel.

• 1:26:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:25Speaker 01

  I'm gonna say it was, no, it was a Rosewood hotel. I've never been.

• 1:26:30Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:26:30Speaker 01

  It looks beautiful. I've heard good, great things. So, you know, I pull it up, I book it, and now it seems that I will probably not be able to make that work. Well, definitely. So I went to cancel it. I called.

• 1:26:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:50Speaker 01

  Um, and they said, oh, you didn't book through us. And I was like, yes, I did. I went to the website and I booked it.

• 1:26:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:58Speaker 01

  And I know it was. I'm like looking at pictures. What?

• 1:27:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:02Speaker 01

  And he was like, no, you booked through this. That's a travel agency. And I was like, oh, okay. Well, regardless, can you cancel it?

• 1:27:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:11Speaker 01

  And he was like, well, you booked a non-cancelable room or reservation. And I was like,

• 1:27:19Speaker 01

  What are you talking about? I, first of all, the fact that this isn't even booked through you is a, is majorly confusing to me.

• 1:27:27Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:27:28Speaker 01

  Secondly, what, like, I knew that I would, might have 50/50 chance have to cancel. So I know this was not clear.

• 1:27:38Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 1:27:39Speaker 01

  And so then I, I get ahold of this agent, you know, this agency, I.

• 1:27:45Dax Shepard?

  I'm gonna add to, to confirm your frustration. I often go to look at a hotel and I, and the first thing comes up and it says it's the name of the hotel. And then I go to it and then I'll just happen to notice the web address and I'm like, wait, wouldn't it say blank.com? There's a lot of places that masquerade as the actual hotel.

• 1:28:04Speaker 01

  Exactly. That, okay, so that's now what I'm thinking happened. Like, I got like kind of scammed.

• 1:28:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:11Speaker 01

  Because I then reached out to this travel agency, which I guess is, I mean, it was booked. So it's not like a scam in that they just like took my money, but still. So I reached out and I said, hi, I need to cancel this reservation. They're saying it's non-cancelable. I, there, there's no way. That was clear. Mixed with, I'm feel certain I booked on the website. So I don't know if this was parading as the website. And they said, yes, you booked through us and, um, it is non-cancelable, but we'll try to advocate on your behalf with the hotel. And then they came back and said like, they can't do it. And I was like.

• 1:28:50Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my god.

• 1:28:51Speaker 01

  Oh, my god. It's.

• 1:28:52Dax Shepard?

  Thousands.

• 1:28:53Speaker 01

  Too much money.

• 1:28:55Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:28:57Speaker 01

  For me not to be like.

• 1:28:59Dax Shepard?

  Two months is plenty of time to cancel.

• 1:29:02Speaker 01

  I was like, are you kidding me?

• 1:29:03Dax Shepard?

  I understand a 24-hour cancel. I even maybe even understand like three days.

• 1:29:07Speaker 01

  I, I know.

• 1:29:08Dax Shepard?

  A month. Get, fuck you.

• 1:29:10Speaker 01

  A month?

• 1:29:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that's a fuck you.

• 1:29:12Speaker 01

  And change in advance, mixed with the fact that like, this is shady. This whole thing is shady. This is a nice hotel. Like, do the right thing. I don't know. It really bothers me because they're like, I can't. And I'm like, well, you can. You just press cancel and you give me my money back.

• 1:29:31Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:29:32Speaker 01

  It's not an I can't situation.

• 1:29:34Dax Shepard?

  On this computer.

• 1:29:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I'm really freaking out.

• 1:29:38Dax Shepard?

  I bet.

• 1:29:38Speaker 01

  Too much, it's like a lot of money.

• 1:29:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:41Speaker 01

  I can't go because we have work.

• 1:29:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. No, that's insane. And no one should be getting that amount of money for doing nothing.

• 1:29:49Speaker 01

  Exactly. And like, so they're stealing my money. They're just about to steal

• 1:29:55Speaker 01

  way too much money for me.

• 1:29:57Dax Shepard?

  You shouldn't even be able to sell a non-cancelable.

• 1:30:00Speaker 01

  Exactly. What is that?

• 1:30:01Dax Shepard?

  The fucking airlines for the same reason. They'll give you like a credit and it's impossible to use the credit. We all know it's impossible.

• 1:30:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, how about this? You fucking refund shit when people can't use it.

• 1:30:15Speaker 01

  Or, okay, again, you're right. I get if it's like you can't cancel within.

• 1:30:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:19Speaker 01

  Five, three days, five days even.

• 1:30:21Dax Shepard?

  Two weeks you would accept in this case.

• 1:30:23Speaker 01

  In this case, I would accept that. A month and change?

• 1:30:27Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 1:30:28Speaker 01

  So honestly, this is a cautionary tale. And I, I mean, I'm maybe not going to say it yet, but I might say it in the next fact check. I haven't, the, the company.

• 1:30:38Dax Shepard?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:30:39Speaker 01

  Because really, like, everyone needs to be on the lookout for this. Because I had, and I'm not a dumb dumb.

• 1:30:47Dax Shepard?

  If they offer one that's not cancelable, there should literally be a pop up screen that says, are you sure you want to book a non-cancelable flight? Like, now, they make it clear when you buy an airline ticket. I appreciate that.

• 1:31:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:01Dax Shepard?

  You can do flexible rate. It's more and then I'll go, if you get that charge of like, God, am I really going to commit to this? I'm not going to change it. And I am a cheapskate.

• 1:31:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:11Dax Shepard?

  So I generally don't, I don't ever get the flex option.

• 1:31:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, or the insurance.

• 1:31:15Dax Shepard?

  Stick to this fucking plan no matter what.

• 1:31:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:18Dax Shepard?

  But no hotel, I'm, I'm operating under the broad assumption that yes, of course you can cancel a hotel room.

• 1:31:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:26Dax Shepard?

  And how about this? If they don't refund your money, they should have to send you a picture every day of that room being vacant. They should not be allowed to then sell it. Like, okay, I'll keep it. Send me a picture of my room every day.

• 1:31:40Dax Shepard?

  Cause if you put someone in there, then we don't have a problem.

• 1:31:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:44Dax Shepard?

  Oh, that is frustrating.

• 1:31:45Speaker 01

  So frustrated and I don't really know what to do and I'm feeling like a level of anxiety around it that is hovering. And, cause it feels very unjust.

• 1:31:55Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:31:56Speaker 01

  And this, this should not matter at all. This shouldn't matter. It doesn't matter, but I do feel compelled to say that I stay at a Rosewood Hotel in New York a lot. Also not a cheap hotel. So they have a lot of my money, like.

• 1:32:15Dax Shepard?

  They know you're valuable.

• 1:32:17Speaker 01

  Thing.

• 1:32:18Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. They know you're a valuable customer.

• 1:32:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:32:21Dax Shepard?

  And they will lose you, right? You wouldn't book.

• 1:32:23Speaker 01

  Well, that's the thing. Cause I'm gonna, I need to book a trip to New York and I am like, I'm, might not stay with this group. And it's like.

• 1:32:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:32Speaker 01

  I don't know. I'm just, I don't know what to do. It's upsetting.

• 1:32:34Dax Shepard?

  It is upsetting. That would upset me greatly. Yeah, that's very frustrating.

• 1:32:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. Thanks for understanding.

• 1:32:41Dax Shepard?

  I wonder if you'll feel better though, if we take electric motorbikes up the trail than I like renegade boys, bad boys.

• 1:32:49Speaker 01

  Oh no, you're gonna bring Frida?

• 1:32:51Dax Shepard?

  No, I've been watching a lot of Steve Ruhl again lately. For people who didn't watch Steve Ruhl for your health, spinoff of Tim and Eric. It's so good.

• 1:33:00Speaker 01

  So funny.

• 1:33:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. He goes, um, he goes to the prison and he says, those are all, he's talking to the warden. All these bad boys, y'all ever spank them? He's like, well, we don't spank, y'all ever spank their bottom cherry red?

• 1:33:15Speaker 01

  Oh God.

• 1:33:16Dax Shepard?

  He's obsessed with bad boys and hunks.

• 1:33:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course, of course he is. John C. Riley.

• 1:33:22Dax Shepard?

  John C. Riley. Put your hands together. That might be the deepest character I've ever seen in a comedy is John C. Riley is Steve Ruhl.

• 1:33:30Speaker 01

  It's very funny.

• 1:33:31Dax Shepard?

  And he mispronounces every word. He's talking to one doctor. He's like, doctor, doctor on sex. What is sex? And the doctor starts telling him, he goes, okay, but what about the prenus? When do we put the prenus? He calls penis apprentice and he calls gambling, gambling. He mispronounces like every fifth word. It's so funny.

• 1:33:50Speaker 01

  Very funny.

• 1:33:53Speaker 01

  Okay, speaking of shows.

• 1:33:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:56Speaker 01

  I came across a very sexy show.

• 1:34:02Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:34:02Speaker 01

  Recommended to me by a friend. I won't out her.

• 1:34:05Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 1:34:07Speaker 01

  Unless she gives me.

• 1:34:08Dax Shepard?

  Whoever recommended it.

• 1:34:09Speaker 01

  I agree, I agree, I agree. But yeah, she asked me if I'd seen the show and I should give it a try.

• 1:34:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:17Speaker 01

  It's called Tell Me Lies. I think people might know it. It's on Hulu.

• 1:34:22Dax Shepard?

  It's on Hulu.

• 1:34:23Speaker 01

  Yes, and it is so sexual.

• 1:34:29Dax Shepard?

  Really? Like, what are we talking about? There's a lot of scenes of fucking, or a lot of flirting scenes, or the whole package?

• 1:34:34Speaker 01

  Lot of scenes, well, both, but like.

• 1:34:36Dax Shepard?

  nude, a lot of nudity?

• 1:34:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a lot of nudity. Like, there are scenes where I'm, I'm like shocked we aren't seeing

• 1:34:45Dax Shepard?

  vaginal.

• 1:34:46Speaker 01

  the vagina or the actual penis. Like, we're seeing so much body that the fact that they're able to make it exactly covered right there is, is a feat.

• 1:34:55Dax Shepard?

  It's a science. It's a science.

• 1:34:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is a science. Anyway, it was very sexy and.

• 1:35:01Dax Shepard?

  And it worked for you.

• 1:35:03Speaker 01

  It was working.

• 1:35:04Dax Shepard?

  Because sexy stuff on TV always runs the risk

• 1:35:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:07Dax Shepard?

  of being very cheesy.

• 1:35:10Speaker 01

  I don't know if the show's good.

• 1:35:12Dax Shepard?

  Sure, that's okay. That's not what you're there for.

• 1:35:14Speaker 01

  That's not why I'm there.

• 1:35:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm there for the, the sexiness.

• 1:35:19Dax Shepard?

  Like, you don't care how the steak is at Long John Silver's. You want to know what the, what the fish is like.

• 1:35:23Speaker 01

  Do you?

• 1:35:25Dax Shepard?

  No, hush puppies.

• 1:35:26Speaker 01

  Sure. Um, yeah, I, I.

• 1:35:30Dax Shepard?

  What's the age group of the people that are fucking?

• 1:35:32Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, so it's, it's set in college. That's another thing. It's set in college. It made me miss college so much.

• 1:35:38Dax Shepard?

  And it make you think like, I want to go back to college and this time I'm going to be a slut.

• 1:35:43Speaker 01

  Kind of.

• 1:35:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that would be the fantasy, I think.

• 1:35:47Speaker 01

  But you know, it's not me.

• 1:35:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. I know, like, I wonder if I would even have the same nostalgia for that kind of thing, because like, I did, I did do whatever I wanted.

• 1:35:57Speaker 01

  No, because it's not, that's not what's actually causing the nostalgia, like, the sex. It's the, the like.

• 1:36:03Dax Shepard?

  Freedom?

• 1:36:04Speaker 01

  No, the. Excitement, like the first episode is their first day and they're moving in and it's just like, God, the life ahead, the excitement of being on your own, but with your friends and you're protected, but you're dangerous and you're going to bars and you're going, oh.

• 1:36:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you loved college.

• 1:36:29Speaker 01

  I just loved it.

• 1:36:33Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

• 1:36:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, for me it's different because A, by the time I got there, I was already older.

• 1:36:49Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:36:50Dax Shepard?

  And then also I was, my mother gave me so much freedom. So I was already like traveling around the country, doing road trips and you know, I had so much freedom that like going away to college to me didn't represent like freedom finally. It's like I kinda had a lot of freedom.

• 1:37:06Speaker 01

  But it's, it's a very specific kind of freedom that is, that creates the euphoria.

• 1:37:12Dax Shepard?

  It's like going on spring break for four years.

• 1:37:14Speaker 01

  Yes, it is. It is. And because your freedom is your decision making, but you still feel insulated. Well, at UGA you do because it's very, the campus go dogs. The campus is gorgeous and it's like, it's not in a city, which I think is great. Like I love that. It's very, it's its own thing and there's a downtown. It's just all bars and restaurants and you're just, it's, it's heaven. It is so fun.

• 1:37:43Dax Shepard?

  You should move back to Athens.

• 1:37:45Speaker 01

  I would.

• 1:37:46Dax Shepard?

  And just.

• 1:37:49Speaker 01

  Live there.

• 1:37:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, just feel it.

• 1:37:52Speaker 01

  It, when I go back and I like walk the campus, I get so, I get so fluttery.

• 1:37:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:58Speaker 01

  It's such a special, it's such a special place. Um, anyway, so it's in college and like.

• 1:38:05Dax Shepard?

  I don't have that. Yeah. I go back and I like it a lot and I remember feeling.

• 1:38:12Dax Shepard?

  You know that I can't believe I'm here feeling when I was there.

• 1:38:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:16Dax Shepard?

  Which that's a nice memory.

• 1:38:18Speaker 01

  Of course. You're proud of yourself.

• 1:38:20Dax Shepard?

  Yes, I was proud of myself. I kind of almost couldn't believe I was there. I felt like they might sniff me out.

• 1:38:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:27Dax Shepard?

  And then Anthro was quite exciting. So I liked the intellectual stuff I was learning. But yeah, I didn't have, I didn't go to bars with friends and go booty bumping.

• 1:38:35Speaker 01

  Well, UCLA is not that kind of campus. Yeah.

• 1:38:41Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 1:38:42Speaker 01

  And a lot of these schools that are very prestigious, but that like, and that I would maybe want to go to in some part of my brain, like NYU,

• 1:38:55Speaker 01

  is not like that. It's just all across the city. So there's something so great about it, like being its own thing. I wonder if, if, if you came to Athens now and you walked to the campus, how you would feel. I bet you would feel like, oh, this is really cool.

• 1:39:10Dax Shepard?

  I spent a lot of time in Athens.

• 1:39:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, but.

• 1:39:13Dax Shepard?

  But not walking around the campus.

• 1:39:15Speaker 01

  You were high.

• 1:39:16Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 1:39:17Speaker 01

  You were drunk and high. And also drunk.

• 1:39:19Dax Shepard?

  I wasn't quite an alcoholic yet for a lot of those trips. Yeah.

• 1:39:23Speaker 01

  Well, then you, oh, so you were young.

• 1:39:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. I would go there to work.

• 1:39:27Speaker 01

  Too young. You were too young to understand.

• 1:39:29Dax Shepard?

  Probably too young. I mostly remember the chickens that would fall off the semis.

• 1:39:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, the stinky, the, the loop. They call that the loop.

• 1:39:38Dax Shepard?

  Big poultry center.

• 1:39:40Speaker 01

  It smells so bad.

• 1:39:42Dax Shepard?

  I love it so much.

• 1:39:43Speaker 01

  I miss it so much. Anyway, so sexy show, sexy show.

• 1:39:50Dax Shepard?

  Do you have a particular person? Just all the scenes, all, all the scenes are titillating? They all work? Or have you locked on to a certain protagonist?

• 1:39:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a, there's the main guy. He is Katie Sagal's son in real life. And yeah, he's like broody and hot and he has a Ben Affleck quality.

• 1:40:16Dax Shepard?

  A little bit naughty.

• 1:40:18Speaker 01

  He's a bit naughty.

• 1:40:19Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I wonder if he would be good for you.

• 1:40:22Speaker 01

  I obviously Googled him. He's 29, so he's not for me. No, that's young for me.

• 1:40:27Dax Shepard?

  Well, that's fine.

• 1:40:28Speaker 01

  That's him.

• 1:40:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:29Speaker 01

  Right now in the show, he has short hair. This is him with long hair.

• 1:40:34Dax Shepard?

  Okay, a little bit even more bad boy.

• 1:40:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I wonder if they ever, if I spank his bottom, cherry red.

• 1:40:44Speaker 01

  He sounds exactly like Fredo.

• 1:40:46Dax Shepard?

  There's some overlap. I mean, like neither of them are in Mensa. I think even though he's a doctor, which is the greatest part is he's a doctor somehow.

• 1:40:54Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:40:54Dax Shepard?

  But I wanted to say earmark when you said it out loud because you're referencing it. Oh, have you started the Pee Wee Herman documentary?

• 1:41:02Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:41:04Dax Shepard?

  His life is so interesting.

• 1:41:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:06Dax Shepard?

  And he went to Cal Arts from Florida.

• 1:41:09Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:41:10Dax Shepard?

  And well, A, he's older than I would have thought, right? Uh, I guess because he was playing a kid. But he, he was at Cal Arts and you see these scenes and he was in these play and his, his cast members were David Hasselhoff and Katie Sagal.

• 1:41:28Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:41:29Dax Shepard?

  And someone else and they're all like, it's so fun to see them at like Cal Arts.

• 1:41:34Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:41:36Dax Shepard?

  And they all made it. Yeah.

• 1:41:38Speaker 01

  Fun.

• 1:41:39Dax Shepard?

  There was a fourth person, but it's, I love the notion of like each person carved out such different.

• 1:41:46Speaker 01

  Nations.

• 1:41:47Dax Shepard?

  Niches.

• 1:41:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:49Dax Shepard?

  And Katie's like a tremendous actor. Um, Hasselhoff is Baywatch.

• 1:41:55Speaker 01

  Come on.

• 1:41:55Dax Shepard?

  Pee Wee Herman is the most unique thing in what he did.

• 1:41:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:58Dax Shepard?

  Elvira. Elvira, Elvira, you're a little, are you too young for Elvira?

• 1:42:02Speaker 01

  I know the name.

• 1:42:04Dax Shepard?

  She was humongous. She was like, I guess she, she would remind you of someone on the Addams Family.

• 1:42:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, I thought.

• 1:42:09Dax Shepard?

  She had big boobs that were out. I was on a trip once where she was there as her normal person herself. And she was awesome.

• 1:42:16Speaker 01

  Cassandra Peterson.

• 1:42:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I think she was also, she was in the Groundlings. I don't know if she was at Cal Arts, but she was in the Groundlings. Look at that makeup.

• 1:42:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know about her. I thought that, I thought Elvira was like a character in a movie or something.

• 1:42:29Dax Shepard?

  She is a character and she would pop up in things.

• 1:42:31Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:42:32Dax Shepard?

  She's a little bit like Pee Wee Herman, like.

• 1:42:33Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:42:34Dax Shepard?

  Character that went everywhere. And then you come to find out that, yeah, um, Paul Rubens was, he was like, Pee Wee was a full-time character a lot.

• 1:42:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:45Dax Shepard?

  Before he was even that character. It was very.

• 1:42:48Speaker 01

  Also rest in peace.

• 1:42:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:50Speaker 01

  That's sad.

• 1:42:51Dax Shepard?

  Really sad. But great doc though. I can't, I'm excited to watch.

• 1:42:53Speaker 01

  How, do we know how he passed?

• 1:42:56Dax Shepard?

  Cancer.

• 1:42:58Speaker 01

  Sad.

• 1:42:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:00Speaker 01

  He was only 70. That's too young.

• 1:43:02Dax Shepard?

  It is too young, but I wouldn't have thought he was 70. Like in my mind, Pee Wee Herman's probably. Currently fifty-eight.

• 1:43:10Speaker 01

  I think Pee-wee Herman's always been seventy.

• 1:43:13Dax Shepard?

  You do, yeah.

• 1:43:14Speaker 01

  He.

• 1:43:15Dax Shepard?

  That's my twelve-year age gap, honey.

• 1:43:16Speaker 01

  Well, no, it's because he looks so strange as Pee-wee Herman.

• 1:43:20Dax Shepard?

  Well, because he's a boy, but he's a man.

• 1:43:22Speaker 01

  I know. I don't get it.

• 1:43:25Dax Shepard?

  So remind anyone who didn't hear my retelling of when I showed my kids Pee-wee Herman.

• 1:43:30Speaker 01

  And I was there for this. And I was also seeing it for the first time.

• 1:43:35Dax Shepard?

  And everyone was confused.

• 1:43:36Speaker 01

  None of it made any sense.

• 1:43:38Dax Shepard?

  And then I got to see it through y'all's eyes, which I was like, oh, yeah, I guess I never did figure out whether he's a boy or not. He's, he rides a bike around, but he, does he live on his own, but he's a boy?

• 1:43:50Speaker 01

  Also, okay, if you, if you like, search Pee-wee Herman, you know, it gives an overview and it has like Wikipedia, like the family. It says Herman Herman, father.

• 1:44:00Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:44:01Speaker 01

  But deceased.

• 1:44:03Dax Shepard?

  The dad is deceased.

• 1:44:04Speaker 01

  But like, is he real? Aren't these characters?

• 1:44:07Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wait, now I'm confused.

• 1:44:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think this is like Pee-wee Herman's dad Herman Herman.

• 1:44:14Dax Shepard?

  Oh, on the show, he was Herman Herman.

• 1:44:16Speaker 01

  And it's deceased. Did he, like, what's going on?

• 1:44:21Dax Shepard?

  I don't know. I don't know.

• 1:44:23Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, the sister's name's Hermione.

• 1:44:26Dax Shepard?

  On the show or Paul?

• 1:44:28Speaker 01

  Pee-wee's sister's name is Hermione.

• 1:44:30Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Yeah, he's a really interesting story where he was fully out of the closet.

• 1:44:35Speaker 01

  Pee-wee or Paul?

• 1:44:37Dax Shepard?

  Paul. And then went back in the closet.

• 1:44:39Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 1:44:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:41Speaker 01

  Well, is it that he went back in the closet or he became bi?

• 1:44:44Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 1:44:45Speaker 01

  Before bi was a thing?

• 1:44:46Dax Shepard?

  No, no, no. He, he went back in the closet.

• 1:44:48Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:44:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Which is so weird because he like, became self-conscious about it, which is so fascinating. You would never think.

• 1:44:57Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh. Do you think it's because he didn't like? The idea that like Peewee was then being associated with being gay.

• 1:45:08Dax Shepard?

  That's what I would have assumed, right? Like, oh, you gotta protect kids from this in the eighties. The Peewee can't be gay.

• 1:45:15Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:45:16Dax Shepard?

  Um, that would have been my assumption, but no, it was more he fell in love.

• 1:45:20Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:45:21Dax Shepard?

  And he lost himself. He lost all of his ambition by just being happily in love. But the relationship wasn't perfect, as none are. And I think he got to a point where he's like, what hap-? I think his own dad said to him like.

• 1:45:36Speaker 01

  Herman Herman?

• 1:45:37Dax Shepard?

  Herman Herman said, um, I'm happy for you, but I think you've lost all your ambition. I think this relationship can't be the only thing you're pursuing in life.

• 1:45:47Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:45:47Dax Shepard?

  And so I think a lot of it, he can, I think he maybe felt like if he were satisfied in that domain, he wouldn't have been as ambitious in the other.

• 1:45:57Speaker 01

  That's interesting.

• 1:45:57Dax Shepard?

  And then he had this kind of character that was Peewee before the makeup and everything. But he would be on, you know, he'd be on other guests starring on shows and he's kind of acting like Peewee. Or he's on a, he went on the dating game as Peewee as like a bit.

• 1:46:12Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:46:12Dax Shepard?

  And the girl picked him.

• 1:46:13Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:46:14Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:46:15Speaker 01

  I wanted to date Peewee.

• 1:46:16Dax Shepard?

  Yes, before we knew what Peewee was.

• 1:46:18Speaker 01

  We still don't know what he is.

• 1:46:20Dax Shepard?

  No one will ever know, is he a boy? A boy shouldn't be on the dating game.

• 1:46:23Speaker 01

  Exactly. It gets so complicated so quick. When you start pulling the thread of Peewee.

• 1:46:29Dax Shepard?

  Of Peewee.

• 1:46:31Speaker 01

  Like, Peewee is such a stupid name. It's really funny.

• 1:46:37Dax Shepard?

  It is, yeah. There's a reason, I've already forgot it. He stole it from, I want to say some toy or something he had. So he's an adult, but he's calling himself Peewee.

• 1:46:46Speaker 01

  I can't.

• 1:46:47Dax Shepard?

  It's a little perverse.

• 1:46:48Speaker 01

  It is, it starts to.

• 1:46:49Dax Shepard?

  You're starting to feel the hidden, the closet-ness is seeping out to other places.

• 1:46:54Speaker 01

  But it just cause, but then it doesn't mean he was a pedophile, just because he was gay.

• 1:46:59Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I'm not saying that at all.

• 1:47:00Speaker 01

  I know, but Peewee.

• 1:47:02Dax Shepard?

  Peewee is like, I want to be a Peewee.

• 1:47:04Speaker 01

  Dancing on pedophilia.

• 1:47:06Dax Shepard?

  If you hook up with him.

• 1:47:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:47:08Speaker 06

  Harmonica brand. The one, one interharmonica brand is where the name came from.

• 1:47:14Dax Shepard?

  Oh, right.

• 1:47:15Speaker 01

  Oh, it's a harmonica brand.

• 1:47:16Dax Shepard?

  He had a harmonica and the brand name was Peewee. And I think that was part of his, yeah.

• 1:47:21Speaker 01

  I might watch that after I finish my sexy show.

• 1:47:24Dax Shepard?

  Okay, if you have anything left.

• 1:47:27Speaker 01

  If I have any. Juice in the tank.

• 1:47:31Dax Shepard?

  If you don't. Shrive up and die. They would say, boys would go blind from masturbating. I don't know what they said about women. What would that happen to them? Would they shrivel up, die of dehydration?

• 1:47:44Speaker 01

  No, I think it's like, we get to because we have multiple orgasms.

• 1:47:48Dax Shepard?

  Right, but the going blind was a threat, like, it was basically a deterrent for masturbating. You'll go blind.

• 1:47:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:55Dax Shepard?

  I don't even understand that.

• 1:47:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like syphilis. I think it's like, you get, give yourself syphilis.

• 1:48:00Dax Shepard?

  Sure, something. But what were they saying to girls?

• 1:48:03Speaker 01

  Um, like, you're a slut, you'll never find love.

• 1:48:06Dax Shepard?

  You're a fucking whore.

• 1:48:07Speaker 01

  You're nasty.

• 1:48:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you're.

• 1:48:09Speaker 01

  And you're disgusting and you stink.

• 1:48:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And will you join me in the bedroom?

• 1:48:17Speaker 01

  Well, we have, uh, there's an upcoming episode. That's sexy. So this is, ooh, this is like.

• 1:48:24Dax Shepard?

  Oh, it's in the air.

• 1:48:25Speaker 01

  It's in the air, yeah.

• 1:48:26Dax Shepard?

  It's spring, summer. It's a time.

• 1:48:28Speaker 01

  Summer flaying spring.

• 1:48:30Dax Shepard?

  What episode are you on in this sex show?

• 1:48:32Speaker 01

  Four.

• 1:48:32Dax Shepard?

  Four. How many are there?

• 1:48:35Speaker 01

  I don't, that's a good question. I mean, one of the episodes is called, um, it's called.

• 1:48:41Dax Shepard?

  Eat my ass?

• 1:48:41Speaker 01

  No, take off, what is, what is it? Take off your pants? Is it take off your pants? Take off your pants and jacket?

• 1:48:47Speaker 06

  Yeah, that's a Blink-182.

• 1:48:49Speaker 01

  It's, it's like a thing in, you say in fifth grade.

• 1:48:52Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh, okay.

• 1:48:53Speaker 01

  Is the name of a episode.

• 1:48:55Dax Shepard?

  Take off your pants and jacket. That's funny.

• 1:48:57Speaker 01

  Essentially porn.

• 1:48:58Speaker 06

  I think these are, uh, song titles from bands, because they've got Sugar, We're Going Down Swinging.

• 1:49:03Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:49:04Speaker 06

  That was a Blink-182 song, Take Off Your Pants and Jacket.

• 1:49:07Speaker 01

  Oh, it was, but they took it from the fifth graders.

• 1:49:11Dax Shepard?

  Rob anchored it out of the perverse end of the music.

• 1:49:13Speaker 01

  You did, thank you. But they, they're doing it to be nasty.

• 1:49:17Dax Shepard?

  Reindeer games.

• 1:49:18Speaker 01

  They're nasty, nasty.

• 1:49:20Dax Shepard?

  Do you want to do facts?

• 1:49:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think we should move into facts.

• 1:49:23Dax Shepard?

  Okay, wonderful.

• 1:49:25Speaker 01

  Alex Cooper facts. There really aren't very many facts at all because this was such a personal story.

• 1:49:29Dax Shepard?

  Okay, could you make some up because Groot's here?

• 1:49:32Speaker 01

  Groot's here and I do feel sad that he's here for one where there aren't that many facts. And I know he's looking to me to give facts.

• 1:49:39Dax Shepard?

  I've told him that you have all the facts.

• 1:49:42Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:49:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:43Speaker 01

  But I don't want to make up facts because I'm very honest.

• 1:49:47Dax Shepard?

  Yes, that's another quality of Monica is she's very honest. She has a lot of integrity. He's so happy, he doesn't mind. This guy can, he's, you can't ruffle his feathers. Yeah.

• 1:49:59Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:50:01Dax Shepard?

  I think everyone should have a group.

• 1:50:02Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:50:03Dax Shepard?

  Everyone should carry one around.

• 1:50:04Speaker 01

  Okay, so we do, we talk about couples therapy at the beginning of the show. And since then, we've both, have you finished it?

• 1:50:12Dax Shepard?

  I haven't finished it.

• 1:50:13Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:50:13Dax Shepard?

  Have you?

• 1:50:14Speaker 01

  And I've started and finished it. I also did what Alex did, I watched the whole thing.

• 1:50:18Dax Shepard?

  One sitting.

• 1:50:18Speaker 01

  In one fell swoop, as I tend to do.

• 1:50:21Dax Shepard?

  You, yeah, you do this always.

• 1:50:24Speaker 01

  I do.

• 1:50:24Dax Shepard?

  And so my question to you is, are you only allowed to start things at like 4pm as a rule? Because you know what you're gonna do?

• 1:50:32Speaker 01

  No, I don't.

• 1:50:34Dax Shepard?

  You lie to yourself.

• 1:50:35Speaker 01

  I lie, yes, I lie to myself and it really fucks me over. I mean, so this happened with you.

• 1:50:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, don't.

• 1:50:42Speaker 01

  The show on Netflix.

• 1:50:43Dax Shepard?

  This is gonna be a battle.

• 1:50:47Speaker 01

  But listener Dax really hates it now that we're, we're living in.

• 1:50:52Dax Shepard?

  And I've asked very kindly and gently if she says, if she could say, the show you, or the Netflix show you, but she always just says, says you and looks right at me.

• 1:51:02Speaker 01

  And then I.

• 1:51:02Dax Shepard?

  Just like the Laura Ingraham.

• 1:51:03Speaker 01

  I do, because I want to live in that, that video.

• 1:51:07Dax Shepard?

  You want me to go, this is so stupid.

• 1:51:09Speaker 01

  Oh, there's a show called Dax Show on Netflix.

• 1:51:11Dax Shepard?

  There's a show called Dax Show on Netflix. This is stupid. We've never done a show on measles.

• 1:51:18Dax Shepard?

  Also, how was there a fucking episode of you about measles?

• 1:51:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, there was.

• 1:51:21Dax Shepard?

  This isn't about a serial killer?

• 1:51:23Speaker 01

  Yes, but-

• 1:51:23Dax Shepard?

  Did he infect someone with measles to kill him?

• 1:51:25Speaker 01

  No, I'll, I, no spoilers, but a kid gets measles.

• 1:51:32Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:51:33Speaker 01

  Cause of-

• 1:51:33Dax Shepard?

  This is like a C storyline?

• 1:51:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, in one of the seasons, a kid gets measles by a family that is unvaccinated.

• 1:51:40Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:51:41Speaker 01

  Which leads to the demise of that family.

• 1:51:45Dax Shepard?

  Okay, okay.

• 1:51:48Speaker 01

  Now, I have finished you. It was five seasons. I finished it.

• 1:51:53Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:51:54Speaker 01

  And by the end, I was like, I, I have to finish this tonight. Because this is interfering with my well-being.

• 1:52:07Dax Shepard?

  Hmm.

• 1:52:08Speaker 01

  I am up so late. I feel hung over the next day. Like when you, kid goes to a sleepover and they get no sleep and then the next day, they're just like dead.

• 1:52:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:21Speaker 01

  That's what my life was. So I finished-

• 1:52:24Dax Shepard?

  You've been kind of in a, in a fog.

• 1:52:26Speaker 01

  I don't know what's been going on.

• 1:52:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:28Speaker 01

  Other than like, what he's been doing, Joe Goldberg.

• 1:52:32Dax Shepard?

  Okay, uh huh.

• 1:52:33Speaker 01

  And, um-

• 1:52:34Dax Shepard?

  Well, you're not gonna believe this. This was completely unimaginable when you entered your fog.

• 1:52:41Speaker 01

  Uh huh, what?

• 1:52:43Dax Shepard?

  But Elon and Trump are no longer friends.

• 1:52:45Speaker 01

  What? I can't even imagine how that could happen.

• 1:52:51Speaker 01

  What a shock. Two very reasonable people. I can't believe it.

• 1:52:56Dax Shepard?

  From the second they became best friends, I was like-

• 1:52:59Speaker 01

  Duh.

• 1:52:59Dax Shepard?

  What is the, what's the over, under of friendship?

• 1:53:03Speaker 01

  I know. Just craziness.

• 1:53:06Dax Shepard?

  Ah, anyway.

• 1:53:07Speaker 01

  I really enjoyed it and I, I have to say, Penn Badgley, really-

• 1:53:17Speaker 01

  Hawk.

• 1:53:17Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I was like, is she gonna say great actor or sexy?

• 1:53:20Speaker 01

  I actually was gonna say great actor.

• 1:53:22Dax Shepard?

  Great actor.

• 1:53:22Speaker 01

  It is, that role is tough. He has to play so many facets. Evil, but, but kind and in love like that. Cause that's what's like propelling all this. He convinces himself he's in love. He's doing all this out of love.

• 1:53:40Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:53:41Speaker 01

  And you believe him, which is weird because it's just, it's very complicated. I heard him do an interview, um, before I saw the show, I heard him do an interview where he was basically like, I'm really ready to be done with this show.

• 1:53:55Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:53:55Speaker 01

  And I thought it was like, kind of.

• 1:53:57Dax Shepard?

  Promo tour.

• 1:53:58Speaker 01

  I thought it was kind of like, that sounds sort of ungrateful. And then I watched it and I was like, of course, living in that head for that long. He said he started when he was 30 and he's about to be 40. This is like 10 years of time of a, that's heady.

• 1:54:13Dax Shepard?

  That reminds me, there was a moment on week three of Seth and Matt and I's promotional tour from, Without a Paddle, which I know when they were on, we discussed a little bit how loony we all went by the end. Where I punched Matthew in the middle of an interview with a boxing glove. And there were starting to be murmurs of, that's also the, the tour that I got kicked off Conan on.

• 1:54:37Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:54:38Dax Shepard?

  And I think there was definitely some murmurs of like, it might be time to pull them from off the road cause there might start damaging.

• 1:54:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:47Speaker 01

  Seems like you were.

• 1:54:51Speaker 01

  Wow. Anyway, that's a ding ding ding because Penn's been on Call Her Daddy.

• 1:54:56Dax Shepard?

  Oh, he has.

• 1:54:57Speaker 01

  So anyway, I finished that and then I watched Sirens in one day.

• 1:55:02Dax Shepard?

  I wanna see that. Is it good?

• 1:55:03Speaker 01

  I, yeah.

• 1:55:07Dax Shepard?

  What if that was on the poster?

• 1:55:10Dax Shepard?

  Ay, ay, ay, yeah. Monica Padman, did you like it? Ay, ay, ay, yeah.

• 1:55:15Speaker 01

  To me, a kind of a slowish start-ish, but by the end, I really, really liked the message. I liked what they did. Um, it's only five episodes, limited series. I cannot get enough of Megan Fahey. I love her. White Lotus, season two.

• 1:55:37Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 1:55:38Speaker 01

  I think she's such a good actress.

• 1:55:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:55:41Speaker 01

  She's so expressive, but, but also very natural.

• 1:55:45Dax Shepard?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:55:46Speaker 01

  I can't get enough of her.

• 1:55:47Dax Shepard?

  Well, I love her.

• 1:55:48Speaker 01

  I love her.

• 1:55:49Dax Shepard?

  I love her.

• 1:55:50Speaker 01

  Um, anywho, so I watched all of Sirens.

• 1:55:54Dax Shepard?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:55:55Speaker 01

  And, and yeah, I watched all of Couples Therapy, and now I'm out of shows.

• 1:55:59Dax Shepard?

  You've done about fifty, fifty, one hundred and fifty hours of TV since you started the pit.

• 1:56:06Speaker 01

  I know. You know what? You're right. The pit got me back into TV.

• 1:56:10Dax Shepard?

  I know, because you were kind of out around New Year's. And I didn't like that, but then now you've gone so hard. I don't know about that.

• 1:56:18Speaker 01

  Why? Can you just accept me for who I am?

• 1:56:21Dax Shepard?

  I do, but it, what's so lovely about you is whatever you're doing is coming out. So it's like every guest, we got to find out if they like the pit and you.

• 1:56:31Speaker 01

  One thing about the show that's great is it does explore. The original question when I first brought up the show and I was like, it's weird, like he's hot.

• 1:56:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:42Speaker 01

  And I know he's not supposed to be hot.

• 1:56:44Dax Shepard?

  You feel bad for thinking he's hot.

• 1:56:46Speaker 01

  And then, but I am against vigilantes in real life. You know, that whole conversation that it sparks, it answers it.

• 1:56:52Dax Shepard?

  Oh, it does.

• 1:56:53Speaker 01

  It kind of goes right at that.

• 1:56:55Dax Shepard?

  Oh, good.

• 1:56:56Speaker 01

  And in the finale, that whole idea of us as a society doing that is addressed.

• 1:57:04Dax Shepard?

  Oh, fun.

• 1:57:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a good show.

• 1:57:06Dax Shepard?

  Before you stop over consuming TV, will you please watch Mob Land so we can talk about something?

• 1:57:11Speaker 01

  I want to talk about it with you, but I don't think it's for me.

• 1:57:15Dax Shepard?

  It is. It's for everybody. It's like Game of Thrones. It's awesome.

• 1:57:19Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:57:20Dax Shepard?

  It's so good. Every single person that's watching it is like obsessed with how good it is.

• 1:57:25Speaker 01

  Okay. Think about it.

• 1:57:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, okay.

• 1:57:28Speaker 01

  Anyway, Couples Therapy, great show.

• 1:57:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, orna.

• 1:57:31Speaker 01

  Great season.

• 1:57:32Dax Shepard?

  Friend of the pod.

• 1:57:33Speaker 01

  Orna, friend of the pod. Um.

• 1:57:35Dax Shepard?

  Oh, when I posted that picture of Groot, someone wrote, Groot, friend of the pod.

• 1:57:40Dax Shepard?

  It made me so happy.

• 1:57:43Speaker 01

  He is a friend of the pod.

• 1:57:46Dax Shepard?

  He had that whole story. He's like a friend of the pod.

• 1:57:48Speaker 01

  Sure. Well, now he really is. Friend of the pod means you've been on the podcast. So he is now a real friend of the pod.

• 1:57:55Dax Shepard?

  I think he can be a character and be a friend of the pod. Like Amy Hansen's never been on the show, but she's definitely a friend of the pod.

• 1:58:02Speaker 01

  That's not how I, that's not how I use it.

• 1:58:04Dax Shepard?

  That's fair. Yeah.

• 1:58:05Speaker 01

  Okay. So couple therapy is a fact that it's good and that people should watch it.

• 1:58:10Dax Shepard?

  That is a fact. Did I tell you the funny thing about Jerry Springer, that doc? You didn't watch it, right? But you saw it, I'm sure on Netflix. It was like always at the top for a while.

• 1:58:19Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:58:20Dax Shepard?

  It's fucking wild. It's one of these situations where it's like you're reminded of what we lived through and how normal it seemed, but is absolute insanity.

• 1:58:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:28Dax Shepard?

  You know, skinheads hitting people with chairs, naked chicks out there. I mean, it was bonkers, but what was so funny is one of the segment producers was saying, they did have people come on that were lying, right? Cause they just wanted to be on Jerry Springer. And she's saying, you know, this, these people that came on lied. She goes, it serves me right because I had broken our rule. We had an official rule. Nobody from Boston's allowed.

• 1:58:56Speaker 01

  Oh my God. That's great.

• 1:58:59Dax Shepard?

  That fucking cracked me up so hard. Like it's a whole city. You're too fucking untrustworthy to be on Jerry Springer.

• 1:59:07Speaker 01

  What is it about Boston? Cause there's other cities that to me are the same.

• 1:59:13Dax Shepard?

  Boston's, I think Boston's wilder than any city. The folks in Boston are wild.

• 1:59:20Speaker 01

  Even more than Miami?

• 1:59:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. They're a different kind. I mean, like Southie and Charleston and all. I mean, it's just, they go, they go hard.

• 1:59:31Speaker 01

  But so does, yeah, I guess. I mean, I guess. It's just funny to me.

• 1:59:34Dax Shepard?

  I've been to all these cities and, and I'll tell you that Boston is the place that I am most on high alert. There's always a young dude that's ready to pop off and do something absolutely crazy. That just seems standard.

• 1:59:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, good while hunting.

• 1:59:49Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and, and, and I relate to them because they're like, or when I always try to say like, if you think you're white trash, or you've been called white trash, you come to own that and enjoy the fact that you're, you're, you're, you're disgusting these fancy people. Like, somebody's gotta go like, oh yeah, I'm fucking disgusting, you know?

• 2:00:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're owning it.

• 2:00:07Dax Shepard?

  I feel like just as an ethos, they've, they've embraced that a bit.

• 2:00:11Speaker 01

  Okay, redheads and anesthetic. Redheads have been found to be more resistant to local anesthetics like lidocaine and may need more systemic anesthesia, like inhaled anesthetics, to achieve the same level of sedation. This is thought to be related to the MC1R gene mutation, which also determines the red hair color and may influence pain sensitivity. Also, that's it. Not very many facts because again, it was a very personal story and we're grateful we got to hear it. Really candid and lovely.

• 2:00:44Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 2:00:45Speaker 01

  And I'm sorry that she went through that.

• 2:00:47Dax Shepard?

  It's fucking, I hate it.

• 2:00:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:50Dax Shepard?

  Like the thing you've dedicated your whole life to, your greatest love in life, is completely taken from you?

• 2:00:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's really unfair.

• 2:00:59Dax Shepard?

  I hate it. All right.

• 2:01:00Speaker 01

  All right.

• 2:01:01Dax Shepard?

  But I don't hate you.

• 2:01:02Speaker 01

  I don't hate you.

• 2:01:02Dax Shepard?

  I hate you.

• 2:01:04Speaker 01

  I love you.

• 2:01:05Dax Shepard?

  The show.

• 2:01:06Speaker 01

  The show. Bye.