Armchair Anonymous: DNA Testing

Dax and Monica talk to Armcherries! In today's episode, Armcherries tell us about a crazy DNA testing story. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ http://www.wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Anonymous. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by Lily Padman.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 0:06Dax Shepard?

  Fuck me, guys.

• 0:09Speaker 01

  You gotta listen.

• 0:09Dax Shepard?

  So lucky.

• 0:11Speaker 01

  You gotta listen to this one.

• 0:12Dax Shepard?

  This is dynamite. This is the most I've retold.

• 0:17Speaker 01

  Really, ever?

• 0:18Dax Shepard?

  I've walked everyone I've seen since this episode through this episode.

• 0:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a few.

• 0:24Dax Shepard?

  Oh my god.

• 0:25Speaker 01

  I mean, really, all of them are incredible, but there's one that is seems impossible and it's not.

• 0:31Dax Shepard?

  Yes. 12 people, maybe this has happened to. Yes, this is an incredible, over-delivered episode. Please enjoy crazy DNA testing stories. We get support from Quince.

• 0:45Speaker 01

  Okay, can we talk about the fact that the holidays are already here? It's crazy. I feel like I blinked and now we're in gifting season, which I'm not really mad about because I do love giving gifts. And Quince is making it so easy to find something great for everyone on my list, including myself. Because let's be honest, self-gifting is a love language.

• 1:04Dax Shepard?

  Quince is seriously the gift that keeps on giving. Their high-quality staples are made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, 14-karat gold, and Italian leather. Full-on luxury quality at prices that won't wreck your holiday budget.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  It's the dream. The cashmere sweater is starting at $60, down jackets, wool outerwear, cashmere accessories. You and everyone on your list are staying cozy and looking incredible all season long.

• 1:31Dax Shepard?

  Well, I'm gonna tell you this. It just got chilly for the first time this year in California, and I'm so excited. And I'm wearing my Quince cashmere right now.

• 1:38Speaker 01

  It's great.

• 1:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and I am going to gift this to some of my friends. I hope they're not listening.

• 1:43Speaker 01

  Quince is also more than clothing. They've got fine jewelry for your significant other, leather bags for your bestie, hotel-quality bedding to set up your guest rooms, chef-grade cookware. That's an amazing thing they offer here. And it's such a good gift because people don't like buying cookware for themselves, but it's very important. And they also have five-star luggage, another good gift that people don't like buying for themselves.

• 2:06Dax Shepard?

  Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers, or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Armchair Expert. It's the best way to support the show. This episode is supported by Helix.

• 2:31Speaker 01

  Okay, can we talk about how November is basically survival mode? Between the holidays, the travel, the hosting, the cooking, the everything. Sleep is the one thing keeping me from completely unraveling.

• 2:41Dax Shepard?

  It really is the foundation. And I think people underestimate how much a bad mattress is quietly ruining their day. You wake up stiff, your back's angry, you're already behind before your feet hit the floor.

• 2:52Speaker 01

  That was me before Helix. I took their sleep quiz, which is so fast. It took me like two minutes and they matched me to a mattress that actually fits how I sleep. Not a guess, not a firm or soft coin flip. It's a real match. I have a midnight mattress and I really like it. I was noticing it because I actually had to sleep in one of my other beds.

• 3:10Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  Recently.

• 3:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  That doesn't have a Helix mattress on it. And I really could tell a big difference in my sleep.

• 3:15Dax Shepard?

  Temperature was all over the map.

• 3:16Speaker 01

  It was a mess.

• 3:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  I need a new one.

• 3:18Dax Shepard?

  Look, they've got over 20 mattress models. So whether you sleep hot, need extra back support, or you've got a partner who moves around all night, there's one built for you. Plus free shipping and a 365 night happy with Helix guarantee. That's a full year to decide.

• 3:33Speaker 01

  Helix has been named the most awarded mattress by Forbes, Wired and more. So it's not just us being enthusiastic, the experts agree.

• 3:39Dax Shepard?

  Right now, Helix is running their Black Friday sale with up to 30% off. Go to helixsleep.com/armchair for up to 30% off your Helix mattress. That's helixsleep.com/armchair for up to 30% off your Helix mattress. Helixsleep.com/armchair.

• 4:18Speaker 02

  Hi.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 4:19Dax Shepard?

  Hello, April. Are you in a hotel room?

• 4:23Speaker 02

  I am actually at a place called Deloitte University. I'm in learning and development and I'm actually here all week delivering five different learning programs.

• 4:33Dax Shepard?

  Which one do we need to know the most?

• 4:35Speaker 02

  I just wrapped up one called Future Forward. It was so fun. Lots of very interesting activities, lots of conversation about what the future of our workplace looks like. How to be agile and adaptable, all the buzzwords. Deloitte, the big accounting firm? That's right. We have our own hotel slash university. Wow, that's incredible.

• 4:56Dax Shepard?

  When you're there for the week teaching, they give you a hotel room?

• 4:59Speaker 02

  They give us a hotel room.

• 5:00Dax Shepard?

  Is there room service?

• 5:02Speaker 02

  There is not.

• 5:05Speaker 02

  But I will say they feed us well. There are break stations on every floor. There's a huge market, a place called the barn.

• 5:12Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 5:12Speaker 02

  Oh, that sounds nice.

• 5:14Dax Shepard?

  They've won me back.

• 5:15Speaker 02

  Do the hotel rooms have tissue boxes? There is in the bathroom. I should have thought ahead and brought it over.

• 5:22Dax Shepard?

  Old me would have needed that, not new me, because I don't blow my nose anymore and I don't cough anymore. No matter how bad I want to.

• 5:30Speaker 02

  I noticed today you wanted to clear and you didn't.

• 5:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I don't think I have yet since I've.

• 5:36Speaker 02

  Much less editing for you. Exactly. He's taken one.

• 5:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but we're gonna lose something from it probably. I bet the guest feels more comfortable that I'm so gross and disgusting like, oh, cool, it's laid back. This guy's a gross monster.

• 5:49Speaker 02

  Still giving off laid back vibes.

• 5:51Dax Shepard?

  Vibes. I'm a tank top, I suppose. Okay, so you have a 23 and me and or slash DNA story. April, let us have it.

• 5:59Speaker 02

  Okay, so I am one of four girls, so three sisters. I know my poor dad. Your lucky dad.

• 6:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, he's gonna live six years longer because of that.

• 6:09Speaker 02

  That's right. Girl dads are the best and he really is the best. So I'm the second in line. And what first caught my attention as a child is that all of my sisters have blonde hair and blue eyes or green eyes. My dad has this bright blonde hair and these really bright blue eyes. My mom, red hair, green eyes. Okay. I came out dark, dark head of hair, really dark. Guys, second born, we can kind of chalk that up to like, okay, there's some genes in there that are going further back, like it happened.

• 6:39Dax Shepard?

  Although if we are led to believe what we learned about Mendelian.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  Punnant squares.

• 6:44Dax Shepard?

  Yes, the two greens and the blue should have all been recessive and we shouldn't have been able to have brown eyes with that mix.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Be big R, little R, big R, little R, making two little Rs. So then there could technically be a combination that.

• 6:59Dax Shepard?

  But since brown is dominant, you have to have two little Bs to get blue. So the mom had two little Bs and the dad had two little Bs. No one had a big B to give. Again, they might have oversimplified it for us.

• 7:10Speaker 02

  I thought about all this growing up. There's also the fact that my sisters are all very rambunctious. They love to dance, very social. I was like the antisocial child. Monica, I love to read Harry Potter, kind of off in my corner, very introverted. So just felt very different. And then tack on to that throughout our childhood, we would go out to eat at restaurants or even in school. People would ask us how we were related. We had the same last name, obviously they knew we were. When we said sisters, everybody often asked, are we full blood sisters? This is mid, late nineties, early two thousands. So that sort of got me questioning, I do feel different. What's going on here? So I did ask my parents a couple of times, is there something I need to know?

• 7:53Speaker 02

  Was always told no. I asked my grandparents, I was always told there was nothing more I needed to know. But I never let this go as a topic. So the running joke in my family to me was that I was the milkman's baby.

• 8:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 8:04Speaker 02

  Good, you guys have heard the phrase. So fast forward, I've asked this question to my mom, even into my adulthood.

• 8:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, because you're like, I'm an adult now. I can handle it if you had a fling.

• 8:15Speaker 02

  Right. And there's something fun about the mystery of it all, but same answer every time. I have two children, shout out to Brody and Bryn, their little arm cherries in the making.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  Oh, we love that.

• 8:24Speaker 02

  I'm looking at both of them and I'm like, they really look like me and my husband and they really look like each other. Biologically speaking, now I can look at my dad and my mom and say, something's not adding up here. So I decide at thirty, I'm going to take a DNA test. I don't tell anyone. I get the DNA test, I take it, it comes back several weeks later. And there's nothing earth shattering. I get some third, fourth cousins, but there is one person who comes up. He's a first cousin. And I don't recognize the name, so I message the guy. And he responds back a couple of days later and he tells me that he's actually adopted. Oh, so that's confusing. Not a lot to go on.

• 9:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so I was gonna say, your results, independent of any other information, are useless. You need your three sisters to take it, or your mom or your dad. The only thing you could have done is figured out through this cousin.

• 9:14Speaker 02

  This is where in the TV show that you take the hair out of the hairbrush.

• 9:17Dax Shepard?

  Oh, sure, sure.

• 9:19Speaker 02

  I was trying to crack this nut without anyone knowing, just so I could have the results myself, but not break open any big secrets of the family. I was trying to be very demure, very mindful. My two younger sisters look just like my dad. Older one looks like my mom. So I talked to my younger sister and she said she's gonna take the same DNA test. And a few weeks go by and we both get the email and we say, okay, we're gonna call each other before we open it. And we opened it. We are half sisters, niece or aunt.

• 9:45Dax Shepard?

  Wow. What would be more confusing, you're a little sister's aunt? I gotta try to figure out that on the family tree.

• 9:53Speaker 02

  What's the feeling when you open it and you see it? I felt like this is my lifelong mystery solved. I knew that something was up the whole time and I was right. My family's still my family. My mom and dad divorced, by the way, when I was eighteen, so they're not together anymore. And I think maybe she doesn't know who my dad is. Or maybe she's just not a hundred percent sure and that's why she never wanted to tell me. There are some secrets she doesn't wanna confess to, but now I have these results. I know for sure there's nothing more to hide and I wanna know who the person could be. So I call her up and I say, Mom, Misty and I took a DNA test and guess what? We're half sisters. She really took it like a champ. And she was very matter of fact. She said, okay, his name is Jim.

• 10:36Speaker 02

  He was ten, twelve years older than me. He was going through a divorce. He's got two other kids. I mean, it should bombshell after bombshell. She knew this guy and they dated for a little bit. But here's the real kicker. She met him because she was working at a pharmacy and this man drove the Borden's Dairy Milk truck.

• 10:55Dax Shepard?

  He actually was the milkman.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  No, no, no.

• 11:00Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wonderful.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  That's so good.

• 11:03Dax Shepard?

  It's got a bow on it.

• 11:04Speaker 02

  And that was the part of the conversation that I stopped and I laughed and I said, do you mean to tell me that I really am the milkman's baby?

• 11:13Dax Shepard?

  Clearly she was still actively married to your dad because kids came before and after you. It wasn't an extramarital experience.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  There was a separation. She was only 21 when I was born.

• 11:23Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 11:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, she's horny.

• 11:25Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  Very young, very much haven't figured out life yet.

• 11:29Dax Shepard?

  Now, did your dad know?

• 11:30Speaker 02

  There's a little bit of some drama here. My mom says that he knew, but when I went and talked to him, because really I wanted to thank him for knowing that I wasn't his biologically, but still raising me the same as my sisters, never treated me any differently. He got really emotional when I had the conversation with him because he said he really didn't know, that she had sort of alluded to it once, but then took it back and never brought it up again.

• 11:53Dax Shepard?

  I gotta really work through, if I found out Delta wasn't biologically my daughter, obviously I couldn't love her less.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 12:03Dax Shepard?

  Nothing there would happen, but would I have any heartbreak that I have nothing to do with that magic?

• 12:09Speaker 01

  Oh, see, that's your ego.

• 12:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  I would feel deceived, not by the kid, but by the partner.

• 12:15Dax Shepard?

  The sexual partner.

• 12:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:17Dax Shepard?

  You know, I just adore her so much. I don't think I'd really give a shit.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  I don't think your feelings towards her would change at all.

• 12:23Dax Shepard?

  Correct. And I almost think I would be grateful that Kristen had chosen what she did because I feel this way about her and I love it so much. And I think I would agree with the decision. But we're not divorced and your folks were divorced when you told them this?

• 12:39Speaker 02

  They were not together when I told them. And I'll tell you, my grandparents are actually who had the hardest time with it because I'm so close to them. And of course, this is my grandpa on my dad who raised me side. He will still find old pictures of distant relative family members that he thinks I resemble.

• 12:54Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 12:54Dax Shepard?

  He's still living in another reality.

• 12:57Speaker 01

  That's okay.

• 12:58Speaker 02

  I love him. He's my pop off and that'll never change.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:01Dax Shepard?

  So did you go find Jim?

• 13:03Speaker 02

  I found him. I got to. Give my younger sister a little surprise. I didn't actually mean to tell her in that way. I just messaged her to ask her for her dad's contact info and I didn't give her a reason why. And she joked back to me and said, why are you my long lost sister?

• 13:20Dax Shepard?

  Oh my God, the cliches are coming through. Yeah.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  Careful what you joke about.

• 13:26Speaker 02

  I did get to meet him and kind of hear about his family history and very pleasant guy. But my life worked out the exact way it was supposed to because he even said he wouldn't have been in a place to be a really great father for me at that time in his life. So it really worked out.

• 13:41Dax Shepard?

  Well, you have a great attitude about all this. You just took it as I was validated. I knew. So it's a victory and I don't feel sad about it.

• 13:48Speaker 02

  I appreciate that. Now I know there's a history of breast cancer in the family. Never knew that before. So these are good things to know.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  That's true. Thanks for sharing that.

• 13:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that was great, April.

• 13:58Speaker 02

  Of course. Thank you guys so much for having me. Would it be okay? Can I take a picture of us?

• 14:02Dax Shepard?

  Of course.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  I'm gonna look in the camera.

• 14:05Dax Shepard?

  And I'm gonna flex. I'm not really, but a little bit.

• 14:08Speaker 02

  All right, everybody. Stay G.

• 14:09Dax Shepard?

  Wonderful.

• 14:10Speaker 01

  So nice to meet you.

• 14:11Dax Shepard?

  Good luck with the rest of your week of teaching.

• 14:13Speaker 02

  Thank you so much.

• 14:14Dax Shepard?

  Bye bye.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  What a nice woman. So good person for that to happen to because that could really take someone down.

• 14:23Dax Shepard?

  Yep.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  I would have a very hard time with that. Luckily, I look like my parents almost exactly.

• 14:29Dax Shepard?

  You know, I know enough to know I don't really know how I'd feel about it, but certainly when I think about it, it wouldn't bother me either.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  I wouldn't be mad at anyone, but I would feel untethered. I don't even know who I really am.

• 14:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but you and I both are so identical to our dads and that's the only one you can find out.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  My dad.

• 14:47Dax Shepard?

  Then your mother has a type. Because she obviously fucked a guy that was identical to your dad. And same with my mom. That means she fucked my grandpa or something.

• 14:56Speaker 01

  Ew.

• 14:57Dax Shepard?

  Well, I'm just saying, I'm such a shepherd. It's insane.

• 15:00Speaker 01

  But I just think then that would be very telling for nurture. Obviously, they are my. Parents, so none of this is helpful. So not going with it, my parents. Also, I just read something recently that made me upset. It's a ding ding ding to this. Green eyes are the most rare.

• 15:16Dax Shepard?

  You didn't know that?

• 15:17Speaker 01

  I just wanted it then.

• 15:18Dax Shepard?

  My mom has green eyes.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  I want it.

• 15:21Dax Shepard?

  Okay, I'll ask her, I guess.

• 15:23Speaker 01

  Can you check with her on how she did that? You could have had them.

• 15:26Dax Shepard?

  I think I'm right about that eye thing.

• 15:28Speaker 01

  You're right.

• 15:28Dax Shepard?

  You have to have both recessive. You can only pass on a recessive.

• 15:32Speaker 01

  Cause they both have little Rs.

• 15:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, little bees.

• 15:35Speaker 01

  I like Rs.

• 15:36Dax Shepard?

  I think there are more genes than just one to determine eye color. So I think it was given to us a little simplistically.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  I think so too, but that was so fun, making those little squares.

• 15:48Dax Shepard?

  Hi, can you hear us?

• 15:50Speaker 03

  I can hear you. Can you hear me?

• 15:51Dax Shepard?

  Beautifully. What name are we gonna use for you?

• 15:54Speaker 03

  I couldn't decide. Honestly, everything felt silly. So whatever you guys want.

• 15:58Dax Shepard?

  Okay, you ready for a wild one?

• 16:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:01Dax Shepard?

  Brooklyn.

• 16:02Speaker 01

  I get it.

• 16:03Dax Shepard?

  Doesn't she look like a Brooklyn?

• 16:05Speaker 03

  Oh, I like it.

• 16:05Dax Shepard?

  You have a candle. You've set the scene.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  This looks like a spa.

• 16:08Dax Shepard?

  Are you just out of a treatment? Are you just out of a Swedish or a deep dish?

• 16:12Speaker 03

  I really wish.

• 16:13Dax Shepard?

  Are you allowed to tell us what part of the country you're in, Brooklyn, even though we're using a fake name?

• 16:17Speaker 03

  I am in New Jersey.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  Almost Brooklyn.

• 16:20Speaker 03

  Which is super weird because I kept getting Cedar Point ads today. I don't know if it has anything to do with you, but I live nowhere near there.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  It definitely has to do with.

• 16:29Dax Shepard?

  Well, you're probably six hours away. Worth the drive, in my opinion.

• 16:35Speaker 01

  Oh my God, do not do that. Just go to your nearest Six Flags. There's one close.

• 16:39Dax Shepard?

  Someone wrote in the comments, they didn't acquire Cedar Point, they merged and the current CEO is the CEO of Cedar Point.

• 16:47Speaker 01

  It's Six Flags over Cedar Point.

• 16:49Dax Shepard?

  Everyone shut your mouth. Okay, sorry, Brooklyn. Okay, so you're in New Jersey and you have a tasty DNA story because you don't want to use your real name.

• 16:57Speaker 03

  Yes. Just to set the scene, my parents met when they were 13. They had me when they were 21, my sister when they were 24. So they were always the cool, young parents. And everyone was always like, oh my God, your parents are still together. They're so young. So fast forward 2019 and my dad was diagnosed with ankylosing spondylitis.

• 17:17Dax Shepard?

  What on earth is that?

• 17:18Speaker 03

  It is an autoimmune disease that essentially fuses your spine together. So it's super painful. It's not anything that's curable. So at that time, he was going to a lot of doctor's appointments. The day after Christmas in 2019, we knew he had a doctor's appointment. I'm home, I'm cleaning up after Christmas and dad calls. And he says, I need you to come to the house right now. I was like, okay, is everything okay? I don't want to talk about it, just come over. I immediately called my sister, I said, did dad call you? And she said, yeah, what the hell's going on? I said, I don't know, I'm on my way. In my head, dad's dying of cancer. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was supposed to be at the doctor. I am near tears. This is that kind of talk.

• 18:00Speaker 03

  So I get to the house, they're not crying, but my mom, you could tell she has been crying. So we sit down and say, what is going on with you guys? And my dad said, me and your mom were out today, we were on the way to the doctor and your brother reached out to us on Facebook.

• 18:18Dax Shepard?

  Excuse me?

• 18:19Speaker 03

  So he starts telling us the story when they were 15. My mom got pregnant.

• 18:27Speaker 03

  She just hoped it would go away and it didn't.

• 18:30Dax Shepard?

  They tend not to.

• 18:32Speaker 03

  That's the problem with those.

• 18:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 18:34Speaker 03

  They're kind of permanent.

• 18:35Dax Shepard?

  Hard to get half pregnant.

• 18:45Dax Shepard?

  We get support from No Bull. The holidays can get hectic. You finally hit a post summer routine and suddenly you're on hosting duty every week.

• 18:55Speaker 01

  That's when you really need to ground yourself.

• 18:58Dax Shepard?

  Exactly. And that's why I keep my training routine through the holidays. It's the whole No Bull idea. There's a no bullshit training brand built around consistency, honesty, and just putting in the work. It's not about adding more pressure to an already packed schedule. It's about having the gear and the habits to move through the season your way. My personal favorite, all three of the shoes are fantastic. The Outwork, the Outwork Flex and the Drive Two. I like the Drive Two because it's a hybrid. And I lift, of course, but I also like to do what's called Box jumps. Right? I do a lot of jumping on the little platform and I want a little more flexibility. And boy, do they deliver.

• 19:35Speaker 01

  And if you're a cardio person and you're running and you also need to be lifting.

• 19:39Dax Shepard?

  And the style is banging. I don't know what to say. Beautiful style, very breathable, very, very comfortable, lots of support. They were built for lifting.

• 19:47Speaker 01

  They also make a great holiday gift. You know, I love gifting, a purposeful one that actually supports someone's goals and routines. And it's not a gift that just ends up in the back of the closet.

• 19:56Dax Shepard?

  Stay stronger than the season. Head to nobolproject.com all holiday season to shop new deals every week.

• 20:05Speaker 04

  With the Spark Cash Plus card from Capital One, you earn unlimited 2% cash back on every purchase. And you get big purchasing power so your business can spend more and earn more. Steven, Brandon and Bruno, the business owners of Sand Cloud, reinvested their 2% cash back to help build the company's retail presence. Capital One, what's in your wallet? Find out more at capitalone.com/sparkcashplus. Terms apply.

• 20:33Speaker 05

  Confidence, it's listening to your gut. It's moving forward even when the path ahead is unclear. For nearly 160 years, Pacific Life has helped people keep their promises, building confidence for generations. Whether you're confident in your financial future or just beginning to envision it, we're here to help. Ask a financial professional how. Pacific Life, the power of promise. Pacific Life Insurance Company, Omaha, Nebraska. And in New York, Pacific Life and Annuity, Phoenix, Arizona.

• 21:11Speaker 03

  So she has my brother. They essentially take him away. She doesn't get to see him, doesn't get to hold him. Does not know where he's going. So this is my full biological brother from both of my parents.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 21:27Dax Shepard?

  Wow, and he's older than you.

• 21:29Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 21:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, so he's six years older than me. And so my parents are looking at us like, we are so sorry. I know we should have told you, but we never thought we'd ever see him again, but we knew they did twenty-three in Maine. But we kind of just thought it was like for fun, not knowing they were looking for my brother. But the funniest part about it is I wasn't upset because I was just so glad my dad wasn't dying.

• 21:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 21:52Speaker 03

  All I could think about was like, oh, my God, it's just a brother. It's really not that big of a deal, guys.

• 21:57Dax Shepard?

  It's a bonus, but I can definitely imagine for your parents, as I would get older and have kids and have this experience with my kids, it would retroactively make me go like, oh, my goodness, our child's out there. We must see that child.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  Also, if this really was you, let's say it's you.

• 22:15Dax Shepard?

  It's me.

• 22:16Speaker 01

  Can you imagine the kind of guilt because your life is really good and your children's lives are really good? And to think, well, what happened to that kid? And what if they didn't end up in as good of a situation? That's a lot.

• 22:28Dax Shepard?

  I'm not shocked they were looking.

• 22:30Speaker 03

  I think for them to hold on to that so much, you know, if somebody asks, oh, is this your oldest? And in your head, you're like, yeah. I was twenty-eight when we found out, so that was a really long time for them to hold on to that. So we end up meeting my brother. It was right before COVID happens. We found out that he was married to his high school sweetheart and had an eight-year-old son.

• 22:53Dax Shepard?

  Just like mom and dad.

• 22:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:55Speaker 03

  But so the weirdest part of it all is how often our paths really crossed throughout all of our lives. He was adopted by a family that's fifteen minutes down the road from where I grew up. His adoptive mother was a beauty queen and his father was the mayor of this New Jersey town that I lived in.

• 23:14Dax Shepard?

  Wow.

• 23:14Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 23:16Speaker 03

  They had two biological daughters before him and then adopted him. Him and I commuted to Manhattan on the same trains all the time. We have the same stories of being stranded because of train delays in the same places at the same time. My mom's cousins knew his sisters in high school.

• 23:35Dax Shepard?

  Listen, you're lucky you never dated them. That's really. This is the most important part.

• 23:41Speaker 03

  That's why this stuff gets tricky.

• 23:44Dax Shepard?

  Cause you would meet them and you would feel this crazy familial thing that you would not chalk up to that. And it would be very confusing.

• 23:52Speaker 03

  Exactly. My brother's a good looking, successful guy. Is he single? No, still married. Oh, yeah. I forgot his high school sweetheart. Damn it.

• 24:02Dax Shepard?

  Get her out of the picture.

• 24:03Speaker 03

  His brother in law lived a couple of houses down from me in the same town. Oh, my God. This is bizarre. But your parents didn't know that? No, they didn't know any of that. And that's what's so strange. But there's pictures of my brother in the newspaper with his dad. My parents have probably looked at those pictures, not really knowing it was him.

• 24:22Dax Shepard?

  Well, it's really great news that he ended up with a wonderful family.

• 24:27Speaker 03

  Yes. Totally. And then for him to reach out to us and see my parents are still together. I mean, he got two more sisters.

• 24:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, he's like, I'm good on the sisters. Is there a cool brother I can hang with? So have you guys become close?

• 24:41Speaker 03

  He was in my wedding. We've all gotten super close. We've gone on vacations with his in-laws. Oh, this is lovely. You can see my mom feels complete. Yeah.

• 24:52Dax Shepard?

  And do they have a sweet relationship?

• 24:54Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh. Yeah. My mom is like constantly stealing her grandson to babysit. She annoys them all the time, the same way she annoys me.

• 25:01Dax Shepard?

  And do his adoptive parents feel at all threatened by any of this? Or they're totally cool with it?

• 25:06Speaker 03

  They were totally cool with it. His adoptive mom lives in Florida now, so she's not local anymore. And his dad did pass away. But his sisters have reached out to me. They messaged me on Instagram and they could not be any sweeter. So it was really a wild, cool thing.

• 25:19Dax Shepard?

  Big win.

• 25:20Speaker 03

  This is.

• 25:21Dax Shepard?

  Really glad you didn't date. Just really keep coming back to this.

• 25:27Speaker 03

  Considering he's like a full brother too.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:30Speaker 03

  It'd be really bad.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, that'd be real, real bad.

• 25:34Speaker 03

  Maybe do 23andMe before dating anybody.

• 25:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, let's do it in your teen years.

• 25:40Speaker 01

  I'm scared to find stuff out on there, though. It's hard to find a partner. If I really fell in love with someone, I would not want to find out they were my full brother.

• 25:49Dax Shepard?

  It's better to not know that.

• 25:50Speaker 01

  I just don't want to know.

• 25:51Dax Shepard?

  That's right. Just have a child that's a cyclops and then ask yourself, why'd that happen?

• 25:56Speaker 01

  Worth it.

• 25:57Dax Shepard?

  Oh, well, Brooklyn, that was kind of an uplifting story.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I liked that a lot.

• 26:01Dax Shepard?

  Life-affirming.

• 26:02Speaker 03

  Well, and thank you, guys, for everything you do. You guys are not just my favorite podcast. You're actually the only podcast that I will listen to.

• 26:09Dax Shepard?

  Good. Don't stray. We don't know how we'll hold up to competition.

• 26:12Speaker 03

  All the others are either too light, too dark. You guys really just kind of fit right in the middle.

• 26:17Dax Shepard?

  Thank you. We aim to. Delightful meeting you, for real.

• 26:21Speaker 03

  All right. Thank you, guys, so much.

• 26:22Dax Shepard?

  All right. Take care.

• 26:24Speaker 01

  These are surprisingly happy stories.

• 26:27Dax Shepard?

  I know. I'm kind of relieved.

• 26:28Speaker 01

  Me, too. But I want some bad ones.

• 26:30Dax Shepard?

  How could they even go bad? They're always gonna probably be this, right?

• 26:34Speaker 01

  Well, it could have gone incest.

• 26:36Dax Shepard?

  Can only hope.

• 26:37Speaker 06

  Well, you got a twofer coming up next.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  What's that mean?

• 26:40Dax Shepard?

  Oh, two people. Wow, this is a first.

• 26:42Speaker 01

  Oh, this is exciting. I'm nervous.

• 26:44Dax Shepard?

  I'm butterflies.

• 26:45Speaker 01

  I was gonna say something.

• 26:47Dax Shepard?

  Something gorgeous. Dating your brother. What if you found out you weren't related to your brother and then started dating him?

• 26:51Speaker 01

  Oh, like, oh, my God, this is the best news? I've always been so attracted to you and I haven't been able to figure it out.

• 27:00Dax Shepard?

  That would be a story, is that siblings found out they weren't siblings and promptly started dating.

• 27:05Speaker 01

  But really, we know that's not gonna happen, because the pheromone exchange.

• 27:09Dax Shepard?

  Yes, you mapped each other's stank.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  And stuff. Ew.

• 27:15Speaker 01

  Hello?

• 27:16Dax Shepard?

  Hi. Hi. Is this big A, little a, R O N? It is. Aaron, you'll be our first dual caller. Is there Jessica also joining us?

• 27:27Speaker 07

  She'll be here momentarily.

• 27:28Speaker 08

  Okay, exciting.

• 27:30Dax Shepard?

  Now, this cool painting behind you, there's a butterfly and airplane and it looks to be flying over like Mexico City or something. What's happening in this photo?

• 27:38Speaker 07

  Jess put that together. It's kind of a collage. She'll have to tell you the story of that.

• 27:43Dax Shepard?

  Okay, a lot is riding on Jess's appearance.

• 27:47Speaker 07

  She's the more charismatic of the two of us.

• 27:50Dax Shepard?

  Well, don't sell yourself short, Aaron. Where are you guys at?

• 27:54Speaker 07

  We're on Vashon Island, Washington State.

• 27:58Dax Shepard?

  Okay, Jessica has joined us. Jessica, the painting collage, what city are that butterfly and that airplane above?

• 28:05Speaker 08

  Oh, he's facing the wrong way. Okay.

• 28:09Speaker 08

  Absolutely nothing. That is actually a painting I did in college over a very ugly palm tree from one of those mall furniture decorating stores that you go to in grad school and you're like, sure, this is four feet by two. It's gonna take up the whole room and it's gonna cost $39.

• 28:28Speaker 08

  So I've just dragged that thing around for years.

• 28:30Dax Shepard?

  What is the relationship here between you and Aaron?

• 28:33Speaker 07

  Well, we're gonna tell you that-

• 28:34Speaker 08

  Oh, this is gonna come up.

• 28:35Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay, okay, okay.

• 28:37Speaker 08

  Let's jump in. We need to know.

• 28:38Speaker 07

  Technical matter. Jess, did you start recording?

• 28:41Speaker 08

  I'm doing it as we speak.

• 28:42Dax Shepard?

  This is such a couple already though, because she's like, you're facing the wrong way, and then he's in charge of tech.

• 28:49Speaker 07

  If I have it facing the window, it's usually just like a bright white nothing.

• 28:54Speaker 07

  Alright, so I've been selected to start the story. So it's 1984. I'm 28 and let's say I'm between things. I've recently returned from a year of teaching English in the Canary Islands. Instead of staying in paradise for some dumb reason, I come back to the US and then don't know what to do with myself. So I move into my mom's basement and start driving a taxi. I also start dating a German woman, Kirsten, and it gets kind of serious, but then she goes back to Germany for work. We decide, however, to keep dating and have a long-distance relationship. Then one day in the local newspaper, I see an employment ad seeking sperm donors to help infertile couples. Okay.

• 29:38Speaker 07

  It turns out that infertile couples means lesbian couples about 95% of the time, but I only learned that much, much later. Since Kirsten and I are being monogamous, this jerk-off job, as it were, seems both like easy money and a good outlet for my sperm. I get hired and I wind up donating. They pay me, so I don't know why they refer to it that way, but I wind up donating about twice a week for a year.

• 30:03Dax Shepard?

  Oh, so 104 trips.

• 30:06Speaker 07

  Probably a little less than that.

• 30:08Dax Shepard?

  I tried to do this at UCLA because they were paying good money for UCLA sperm. And I went in and did a deposit and then they said, your sperm count isn't high enough.

• 30:18Speaker 07

  Too low.

• 30:19Dax Shepard?

  So you're more virile. You're more manly than I was.

• 30:22Speaker 07

  My condolences.

• 30:25Dax Shepard?

  Were they looking for a cab driver living in mom's basement when they?

• 30:30Speaker 07

  Despite that career profile, I went to Johns Hopkins, so maybe that helped. That definitely helps. Okay, so at this end of this year of donating sperm, I moved to Germany to be with Kirsten. That relationship doesn't last too long, but in any case, I go on with my life and I don't give the sperm donation much thought. I'd signed a mutual confidentiality agreement with a sperm bank and DNA testing doesn't exist yet, so I just assumed I'd never learn anything about any children born. I don't ever get involved in a serious relationship and have children the standard way. So fast forward 30 years to 2016 and I begin to see ads for 23andMe. I immediately understand that if I get a DNA test, I might be able to find my progeny and I'm intrigued.

• 31:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 31:16Speaker 07

  But I procrastinate signing up for about a year. But finally, I order the test, spit in the test tube and mail it off. Having no idea what the odds of finding any of the children are. A few weeks later, I get the results back.

• 31:28Dax Shepard?

  Hold on one second. I do want to ask, when you spit in the test tube, what would have been your guess of how many kids resulted from these 100 plus or minus trips?

• 31:39Speaker 07

  I did do like a kind of back of the napkin calculation based on odds of conception. It seemed like 60 to 70 children might be possible.

• 31:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, this is wild already. Okay.

• 31:54Speaker 07

  So I get the results back and find exactly one child, a son named Bryce, age 20, who lives in New York. I was in Pennsylvania at the time. I see this result and I'm like, yikes, what do I do now? I spend about a week thinking about what to write to him. And he's also on 23andMe, so I wonder if he's noticed me or been notified about my existence. And I wonder if I'm failing some sort of unwritten DNA test results getting etiquette. I write to Bryce and let him know that I'm interested in connecting. I tell him a little bit about myself. He writes back to me in about five minutes flat and he writes back with an email that starts,

• 32:33Speaker 07

  dad, exclamation point, which is really alarming because I'm wondering what expectations does this guy have of me? But it turns out he's just joking around and having fun.

• 32:44Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay. He's got your sense of humor.

• 32:46Speaker 07

  Very smart and funny. We make a positive connection and pretty soon he connects me with another of my kids, Maddie, who's also about 20, a daughter who he found through a different service. In fact, he's found in total five other children, so I immediately go from one to six. Except for Bryce and Maddie, all the other ones are younger. They don't really come into this story. Bryce and Maddie and I wind up corresponding with each other. We have like a Facebook chat going. We get to know each other a bit. We exchange life stories and pictures. Our resemblance to each other is pretty striking. There was no doubt that the results were accurate. But they are young college students in their twenties. They have other things going on in their lives.

• 33:29Speaker 07

  So after not too long, things go dormant and, you know, we occasionally like each other's Facebook posts. A few months pass and then in early 2017, I get a kind of confusing message through 23andMe from a daughter named Alice, aged 11, but really it's her mother Jessica that's writing.

• 33:50Speaker 07

  And this seems like a good place to bring Jethion to tell her side of the backstory.

• 33:54Speaker 08

  Okay. Yeah, that's me.

• 34:15Speaker 08

  So my backstory is a long, long time ago, I was married to a woman and we had two daughters using an anonymous sperm donor. I carried the first and she carried our youngest and we used a sperm bank randomly. Our gynecologist was like, I'm registered at this bank. So we picked a donor. We had sperm shipped overnight. It comes in like a giant helium tank on dry ice. You put on gloves and you lift out this little smoking, half a chapstick cap of sperm. Oh, wow. Okay. We went through that entire process and had our first daughter, Alice. You have your first baby, you're over the moon. You're like, she's obviously perfect. Let's replicate her. So we used the same donor again and had our youngest daughter. And by the time

• 35:00Speaker 08

  Alice was 11, I was divorced and I was dating a man who coincidentally is also named Aaron David, like Aaron here.

• 35:08Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow. That seems impossible.

• 35:11Speaker 07

  When he learned this, I was like, oh, they just made a mix up at the Bureau of Boyfriends.

• 35:17Speaker 08

  And Alice at the time was really, really sick of hearing her grandma talk about like, oh, we're from Kent, we're from Romania, we're from all these places. She knew I never knew my father. She obviously knew she grew up with two moms and an anonymous donor. And she was like, you know what? 75% of me is a mystery.

• 35:34Dax Shepard?

  Why did you not know your dad?

• 35:35Speaker 08

  I just never did. It was the 70s. I had a single mom. It was not discussed in the Midwest and you didn't go looking because you're Midwestern, I guess.

• 35:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a secret.

• 35:47Speaker 08

  But Alice is Gen Z and has no such qualms. She just wanted the map of her countries. Being 11, she wasn't at the place that Bryce and Maddie as college students were. She wasn't like, who am I? Where do I come from? She was like, I know who I am. Eleven, I'm cool.

• 36:01Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 36:01Speaker 08

  At the time, I'd never heard a DNA story of people finding adoptive parents. So she asks Grandma for this present for Christmas. Grandma is more than happy to provide. And six weeks later, we get the results and I click the DNA relatives tab and it's just father fifty percent shared DNA. My reaction was the same as Aaron's. You're like, what am I going to do about this now? He's probably getting a notification right now. The clock is ticking. I Googled, I did what anyone would do. I had no idea sperm banks had branches. So we had ordered from the DC area. So luckily he went to Johns Hopkins because I found a guy on LinkedIn, right age, the right degrees in the DC area.

• 36:43Speaker 08

  So I went to Facebook and he had all of his school pictures K to twelve. And I got chills at that moment. It was no doubt in my mind, here's my daughter with a nineteen sixties boy bowl haircut. I wrote him that confusing note and just said, hey, I'm the mom. I'm open to talking. Write me back if you want pics.

• 37:02Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 37:03Speaker 08

  Yeah. Oh, wow. He wrote back. He'd already written a bio for Bryce and Maddie. So I read it to Alice and she wrote her own life story back to him, which was very short. But because she was eleven, me and Aaron started texting. We just both found it fascinating. We formed this friendship. Six months later, that summer, because Bryce and Maddie are college age, we all decide that we're going to meet in Seattle. And he threw a huge party on the roof of his place and we all came and I was cool with that, especially with such a young daughter that there were two other siblings there. It was not going to be a big deal. But we all decided we were going to spend basically two weeks together. And Aaron does this huge hippie fest in Eugene every summer.

• 37:44Speaker 08

  So we all pile in my car and we drive back down there and we go to this hippie fair. Instantly, Aaron and I were the parents in this scenario. We're throwing sandwiches to the backseat and do you have everything? Got to make sure everybody's happy.

• 37:57Speaker 07

  We're both playing parents and yet we are actually the biological parents of one of the kids.

• 38:02Speaker 08

  Eugene was where I was living at the time. He had been in a band in that area. He had commuted every weekend. We could have passed him and the girls in grocery stores. We had some one step removed people in common. So weird how close our paths had always been to crossing. So during that trip, we took a walk one night just to be alone and talk and sort of have our first date. And it was like the wildest first date I've ever been on because we went to a cemetery by my house because all the kids are back in the house.

• 38:28Dax Shepard?

  You're on your first date, but you already have a child that's 11 years old.

• 38:31Speaker 08

  Yeah, right. And what happens on this first date is

• 38:33Speaker 07

  That's a good icebreaker.

• 38:34Speaker 08

  That most of it telling him what our, in quotes, daughters are like.

• 38:39Dax Shepard?

  Can I ask quickly how your ex-wife felt about you connecting with Aaron?

• 38:45Speaker 08

  Ex-wife was not in the picture at that point, but I can tell you for sure she would not have been supportive.

• 38:50Dax Shepard?

  I got you. Okay.

• 38:51Speaker 08

  I'm a little bit more open about that kind of thing. We went on this whole trip together. We kind of played family. So we came back to Seattle with him and we started dating and the rest is history. It kind of progressed from there. You know, I met and got together with my daughter's bio dad 12 years after she was born.

• 39:08Dax Shepard?

  Wow. So how long have you guys been together now?

• 39:11Speaker 08

  Since 2016. So like, yeah, nine at this point. Alice is in college.

• 39:15Dax Shepard?

  Wow. Oh, my God. So you ended up, Aaron, raising your daughter from 11 on?

• 39:22Speaker 07

  Only sort of. Alice should probably be here to speak for herself, but she has never considered me to be her father, her other moms, her other parents, even if a parent hasn't been so great to her recently.

• 39:34Speaker 08

  I think Alice would double down on that and be like, that is why we cannot let her off the hook because gay family is family. She was just like, my mom's already out of the picture and that really hurts. I'm not ready to pull someone else into that and risk that again.

• 39:48Dax Shepard?

  And from what you've already told me about her personality, it's on brand.

• 39:52Speaker 08

  It's definitely on brand for her and it felt a lot safer for me. I tried to Google this and no one else on the internet had been in this situation before. There was no answer to, how do I date my kid's dad?

• 40:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 40:03Speaker 08

  I tried to be a good mom about this and it felt better because I knew that she wasn't just gonna like run into his arms and then it was gonna end and I was gonna be The worst mom on the planet.

• 40:13Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes sense.

• 40:16Speaker 08

  Wow.

• 40:17Dax Shepard?

  What about the younger daughter?

• 40:19Speaker 08

  My youngest daughter, what actually happened to estrange my wife and me is she withheld that daughter and abandoned Alice. So Alice hasn't seen her sibling in that amount of time either. Alice is completely adamant that this child is not her sibling just because it's Aaron's. It's not like Maddie is now substitute sister or is as much sister. We've kind of come full circle, like love definitely makes a family, but biology also can make some sort of family too. And both are not the whole enchilada and both are not nothing either. Yeah, that's so true. Yeah.

• 40:50Dax Shepard?

  Well, this might surprise you that the most shocking part of this whole story to me is that they keep the sperm for so long. I would have thought I either had kids in that window of time I was jerking off at the place.

• 41:02Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 41:03Dax Shepard?

  I would not think there could be a 20 year span.

• 41:06Speaker 08

  I actually found him because one of the vials they sent me had a date on it, you know, January 1994. And I was like, 94? I graduated high school in 94. It's 2004 when I'm trying to get pregnant. And I was like, he already had a masters by 94. Okay, here's his age. Let's start Googling. Right, right. I did not expect that that was 10 year old sperm.

• 41:26Speaker 07

  They sold you expired sperm.

• 41:28Speaker 08

  I got expired sperm, man. Wow, what a story.

• 41:33Dax Shepard?

  What a story.

• 41:34Speaker 07

  We are now aware of, I believe, 22 of my children.

• 41:38Speaker 08

  Okay.

• 41:38Dax Shepard?

  22.

• 41:39Speaker 08

  Wow. I have a spreadsheet.

• 41:41Speaker 07

  I've only met four.

• 41:43Dax Shepard?

  Does it stress you out at all?

• 41:45Speaker 07

  No. Whenever I discover one, I write them an email and tell them a little bit about myself and say, I'm open to connection, though strangely, other than Bryce and Maddie and one other, Emily, who happens to live near us. I guess we had a Zoom meeting with one family of three, but. Most of them just haven't been that interested.

• 42:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:05Dax Shepard?

  Right. Wow, this is a wild story.

• 42:08Speaker 01

  This really is. This is the most interesting meet cute I've ever heard.

• 42:13Dax Shepard?

  Absolutely.

• 42:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:14Speaker 07

  After my piece was published in the New York Times and Jess also had a piece published by the BBC, we did get some movie interest.

• 42:22Speaker 01

  Uh huh, I could see that.

• 42:24Speaker 07

  Game of it.

• 42:25Speaker 08

  I think the problem is there's not an obstacle in our story at all.

• 42:29Speaker 07

  They would have to invent that.

• 42:30Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 42:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, well, we're good at that.

• 42:31Speaker 01

  Creative license, that's allowed.

• 42:33Dax Shepard?

  We know how to do that. Well, you guys, this was delightful. What an interesting story. What's the name of the New York Times piece and the BBC piece in case people want to read it? I think that might interest people.

• 42:42Speaker 08

  No idea, but his New York Times, I mean, that's kind of how it got out. He wanted to write a modern love with his creative writing degree on it. So there's a modern love that's like, am I in a chromosomally arrayed relationship?

• 42:55Dax Shepard?

  Oh, that's a clever title.

• 42:56Speaker 07

  Right, that's not the title, though. It is the modern love column and the title is First I Met My Children, Then My Girlfriend, They're Related.

• 43:05Speaker 01

  Oh, that's nice. I like that.

• 43:08Dax Shepard?

  It's tasty. Okay. I like your title, though, a lot, Jessica. I don't know if that was a first draft.

• 43:12Speaker 08

  That might be the subtitle on it.

• 43:14Dax Shepard?

  Well, wonderful meeting both of you. Thank you for telling us that story.

• 43:17Speaker 01

  Doing it this way. This was fun to have both of you.

• 43:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you laid it out beautifully.

• 43:20Speaker 08

  Thank you so much for having us.

• 43:22Dax Shepard?

  Okay, take care.

• 43:23Speaker 07

  Bye.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  Wow, meet cutler.

• 43:28Dax Shepard?

  I guess that sperm stays good for a fucking goat's age, huh?

• 43:31Speaker 01

  But it worked out.

• 43:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that's great.

• 43:33Speaker 01

  Alice.

• 43:35Dax Shepard?

  Taylor, can you hear us?

• 43:37Speaker 09

  Yeah, I'm sick, so I'm sorry. My voice is all.

• 43:39Dax Shepard?

  You're gonna have to get healthy before we can talk to you. You're gonna have to call us back.

• 43:43Speaker 09

  I had some cold. I thought it went away. Now it's back.

• 43:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, these colds.

• 43:47Dax Shepard?

  These are the new colds. They're for three months. That's just how fucking colds are now.

• 43:51Speaker 09

  Apparently.

• 43:52Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so you have a wild DNA story.

• 43:54Speaker 09

  I do. I'm a twin. We are the babies of seven. About six, they divorced and my dad moved out with his friend girl. Went to another state and kind of left my mom to raise all of us.

• 44:05Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 44:06Speaker 09

  He made it really clear that he had left. When I was about 16, she was completely over me and my shit. And so she booted me out here to live with him, just me, left everybody back where they were.

• 44:16Speaker 01

  What about the twins?

• 44:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and are you guys identical or fraternal?

• 44:19Speaker 09

  It's a boy, so he stayed back. We were freshmen in high school, but I was a pain in the ass. I have a 17 year old right now and like, God bless her.

• 44:28Dax Shepard?

  I know I'm caught between. So my brother was really, really challenging. And now that I think of his story and I write about it, I realize he really needed someone that had a lot of capacity to help. I just feel bad for both people in the story. Like I feel bad for my mom and I felt bad for my brother. So you probably needed a lot of help.

• 44:47Speaker 09

  I am so blessed by my children that I'm like, how did you do it? And she's like, I sent you.

• 44:52Dax Shepard?

  I didn't.

• 44:54Speaker 09

  So she sent me here and I was nice and sassy and I was like, you know what? Why'd you leave? Like, what's your problem? Was she worth it? And he's like, wasn't the only one. For all I know, you're some Jack guys, baby.

• 45:05Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 45:06Speaker 09

  I understood that this Jack guy was like a colleague of my mom's. I'd heard the name, but I'm like, you're deflecting. You're just trying to take the attention off what you're doing. I was very much not here for it.

• 45:15Dax Shepard?

  Also, Jack guy sounds like a term, like a certain kind of guy, like he works at.

• 45:19Speaker 01

  Guy.

• 45:20Dax Shepard?

  Well, that would be great, but I was thinking more like he works at a mechanic shop, like he's jacking up cars or like a jack jockey.

• 45:25Speaker 09

  Different industries for sure. But yeah, fair enough. He didn't harp on it. He never really had a lot of nasty things to say about my mom. He was always very kind. He's like, she loves you. But he was tired of being the only one taking the blame. And he kind of wanted to get his story out there, but then we didn't talk about it again.

• 45:40Dax Shepard?

  And did he and the friend girl have any children?

• 45:42Speaker 09

  No, that happened for about a year. And then after I had my third son, my mom mailed me my baby book. And the baby book had all these like cards and crap in it. And in it, there was a literal Western Union telegram, yellow with the tear on it and everything that said, congratulations on the twins. I'm so happy. Jack.

• 46:00Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay. This is curious. Yeah.

• 46:04Speaker 09

  A little curious. I tried digging and I can't find anything and I just move on. So a couple of years later, me and my twin decided we were both going to try ancestry and 23andMe. We wanted to prove that they were full of it. And everyone said the origins are off. We weren't really doing it for DNA purposes. We were just trying to play with it. And we were kind of right, like his came up a little bit Irish and mine came up a little Scottish. And then the rest of it was just Eastern European. Didn't think anything of it. 2022, I got back in this Jack fix and I was like, I'm going to figure this out. So I started digging through 23andMe, which had matches that were like fifth cousin nonsense. So I was bored. So I was like, I'll log into my brother's ancestry because he would have different matches. And sure as shit, I open up, it says, parent, child, match, my brother and Jack.

• 46:48Dax Shepard?

  Hold on a second.

• 46:48Speaker 09

  Why didn't yours say that? Jack only did ancestry. Oh, you did different ones?

• 46:53Dax Shepard?

  They divided and conquered.

• 46:54Speaker 09

  Oh. I don't like to blow up my family over nothing. So I'm like, I'm gonna do my own ancestry because I had done 23 so that I can catch my breath.

• 47:01Dax Shepard?

  You told your brother, obviously. He already knew.

• 47:04Speaker 09

  Not at this point.

• 47:04Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow, okay.

• 47:06Speaker 09

  We don't live in the same state anymore, so I just let it be. And I didn't know how to process, you know, that's a lot.

• 47:10Dax Shepard?

  This is a fucking mess.

• 47:12Speaker 09

  I do my own, ironically, Father's Day is the day I get mine back. I open it up and there is no Jack to be found. And it says that me and my twin brother are half siblings.

• 47:22Dax Shepard?

  Wow.

• 47:23Speaker 09

  It's called super feet on case. I don't know how to say it. No. It's very, very rare. There's like 10 cases in all of America.

• 47:29Dax Shepard?

  Whoa. Wow. So your mother was carrying two different people's child?

• 47:36Speaker 09

  Isn't that wild? At literally the exact same time.

• 47:39Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 47:41Speaker 09

  I'm upset. Don't even know how to tell my brother that he's the only one of us seven that's not.

• 47:45Dax Shepard?

  Well, do you know, though, the other fives, have they done ancestry?

• 47:50Speaker 09

  None of them have.

• 47:51Dax Shepard?

  We don't know how much Jack was in or out of the picture.

• 47:54Speaker 09

  My dad has got black hair and blue eyes and my twin is the tallest out of everybody. He's like 6'1". I'm 4'11" and he's blonder and so is Jack after doing lots and lots of fun research. So then I decided to go crazy on my ancestry and connect some more dots and just try to make sense of it. And I couldn't, I couldn't connect any more dots. So they have these things called DNA angels. I don't know if you've ever heard of them, but like huge shout out to them. They do it for free. They'll log into your ancestry and they'll help you connect some dots from fifth cousins all the way down to like maybe who your grandfather's father was. So I call them, I'm like, help me. So she logs in and about 10 hours later, she calls me and she's like, I'm really sorry, but you're not your dad's either. What?

• 48:34Dax Shepard?

  Oh, plot fucking twist.

• 48:40Speaker 09

  Stop it. Stop. She's like, it's one of these three men, they're all brothers, they connect to a grandfather that my DNA connected to.

• 48:46Dax Shepard?

  Mom was busy.

• 48:47Speaker 09

  She sure was. U S Y busy. So I just started at the top of the three men. He's the oldest out of all of them, closest to my mom's age. His name is James. And about two hours into researching, do I not land on a photo of Jack, James, my mom, all at a conference the year of my birth? I mean, there's like 10 of them, but those three were in the middle. It's like my mom was in the middle and Jack and James. And I continued to find out Jack was the president of this company and they were the trustees.

• 49:17Dax Shepard?

  Okay, now hold on.

• 49:18Speaker 09

  Was it a threesome? I ask that question a lot. I've done so much investigating. The only thing I don't know is, do they take tur-? Right.

• 49:25Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes, it was one night and then the next night.

• 49:26Speaker 09

  Did she like go down to the bar after? Exactly, because it would have to be that fast.

• 49:32Dax Shepard?

  There's a lot of permutations here.

• 49:33Speaker 09

  I think it was an orgy. Even if she hyperovulated, the studies show it has to be within a couple of days.

• 49:39Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so have you discussed any of this with your mom?

• 49:42Speaker 09

  No, I haven't confronted her.

• 49:43Dax Shepard?

  You haven't?

• 49:44Speaker 09

  I told my twin, which kind of like ruined our relationship. No. So he called Jack because I'm sitting on it for months. And then he comes out here for our birthdays and I'm like, so guess what? And he's like, Mom got Eiffel Towered. And I was like, that's not funny. What's that mean?

• 49:58Dax Shepard?

  What does that mean? She knows a lot of code words.

• 50:00Speaker 09

  Just think about an Eiffel Tower.

• 50:01Dax Shepard?

  Oh, oh, sure. Like a wobbly H, sawhorse. Yeah.

• 50:05Speaker 09

  I don't get it. Oh, oh, oh, oh, I do, I do. He calls this guy because I had this guy's phone number. Mind you, both these two men are married 50 years plus. So they were married to these women and they still are. He calls him and he's like, hey, guess we parent child matched on ancestry. And Jack's like, your mom and I agreed we'd never have any contact with you. So bye. Oh, my God.

• 50:25Dax Shepard?

  Well, he's afraid.

• 50:27Speaker 09

  Sure. And I'm not out here to hurt him, but he could have been like, here's a few medical things you might need to know. Exactly. Minimally, I'm sorry that this happened.

• 50:33Dax Shepard?

  Here's 5,000 bucks.

• 50:34Speaker 09

  Well, Jack had no kids.

• 50:35Dax Shepard?

  Maybe he thought he was sterile.

• 50:37Speaker 09

  Well, he knew about us, though.

• 50:38Dax Shepard?

  Oh, and he sent a telegram.

• 50:39Speaker 09

  But he doesn't probably know that I'm James's. He probably thinks he has me and my brother out there.

• 50:45Dax Shepard?

  He's like, okay, I don't need to talk to you, but is your sister going to call? Because I need to tell her. I don't want to talk to her either.

• 50:50Speaker 09

  If her sister calls, it's going to be a longer conversation.

• 50:54Speaker 09

  He's not my dad, so I can't say anything to him. And then I looked up mine and he was once upon a time the Supreme Court Justice of a southern state. So I decided to leave that alone. Holy moly. And he's got kids and grandkids and I'm not ruining anyone's life. It doesn't change who I am. But are you like, what am I?

• 51:12Dax Shepard?

  So yeah, what impact does this have? Because we've talked to some people today who have had this experience. And some of them are like, it doesn't matter. It's cool to know. And that's still my parent and I don't really care.

• 51:21Speaker 09

  Yeah, I went to a conference on it. They're called NPE, non-parental event or non-expected parent. And a lot of people are just crying like, the mailman's my dad and my mom lied my whole life and it's my identity. And I'm like, no, it's not. You are who you are. Your blood's blood. You know, I grew up with step siblings. My kids have had a stepdad. I don't identify with who was in the room that night. I identify with who I turned out to be and the people that cared to stay in my life. I have great relationships with people that are blood and that aren't.

• 51:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 51:46Speaker 09

  I'm bummed. And I can see why my mom always had just this undercover, I'm not so sure about her, get rid of her. She just didn't like me.

• 51:52Dax Shepard?

  I can't imagine though, that she assumed the twins were from two different men, even though she had sex with two different people.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  There's no way.

• 52:01Speaker 09

  That would just not only spoil her, your dad left and cheated. Not only did he do that, but you doubled down. You know, and to tear down a woman in her late seventies, it's just like, what's the point? I told one of my sisters, the other sibs don't know, and she's like, you've got to tell her. And I'm like, no, I don't.

• 52:17Speaker 01

  I mean, the only reason I think to tell her is like, she is a medical marvel.

• 52:20Dax Shepard?

  History.

• 52:21Speaker 01

  Literally. I mean, there probably is just 50 cases this has ever happened.

• 52:27Speaker 09

  Yeah, I think that they said in just America, there's 12. And then the other countries, there's more, but you don't have a lot of documentation on this. How many twins both do it? You just assume one's DNA is the other's.

• 52:38Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 52:40Dax Shepard?

  This is twisty and turny.

• 52:42Speaker 01

  Growing up though, did you think you and your twin had twin abilities?

• 52:48Dax Shepard?

  Well, they did share a mom.

• 52:49Speaker 09

  Right. And like, we shared a room and we shared a lot of time together. And I always thought we had this special bond.

• 52:55Dax Shepard?

  Are you left-handed?

• 52:55Speaker 09

  No, my little boy is though.

• 52:57Dax Shepard?

  Maybe he'll be president.

• 52:58Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 52:59Dax Shepard?

  Over index.

• 53:02Dax Shepard?

  What a story.

• 53:03Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 53:04Dax Shepard?

  That's a barn burner.

• 53:06Speaker 01

  Thank you so much for sharing it.

• 53:08Speaker 09

  Yeah, you guys, it was super fun. I do need to give a shout out to one of my friends, Rebecca. She actually used your story to ask about dyslexia and she gives it to her students at the elementary school she teaches at. And she loves, loves, loves you guys. She got me interested in you guys' podcast.

• 53:21Dax Shepard?

  Thank you, Rebecca.

• 53:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's lovely.

• 53:23Dax Shepard?

  Shout out. Well, lovely meeting you.

• 53:25Speaker 01

  I'll be thinking about that one for a while. That one's gonna stick.

• 53:29Dax Shepard?

  Yep.

• 53:30Speaker 01

  Have a great day.

• 53:31Dax Shepard?

  Take care, feel better.

• 53:32Speaker 09

  Thank you. Bye.

• 53:35Speaker 01

  This one really got out of hand.

• 53:36Dax Shepard?

  I feel like we need to do this again.

• 53:38Speaker 01

  I'm sweating.

• 53:39Dax Shepard?

  Four for four. They also grew in intensity.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:42Dax Shepard?

  There was like a natural progression that felt scripted.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  Oh my god, bon ami.

• 53:47Dax Shepard?

  Bon ami. Voix joie de vie. Fallé fou français, fairly me bouche.

• 53:53Speaker 01

  Are you gonna go look into your?

• 53:55Dax Shepard?

  DNA. I feel like now I'm not anyone's, don't you? All those stories make you feel like, oh shit.

• 54:00Speaker 01

  Who are my, everyone?

• 54:01Dax Shepard?

  Who am I?

• 54:02Speaker 01

  Who am I?

• 54:03Dax Shepard?

  Who's my mom?

• 54:04Speaker 01

  Isn't that the book?

• 54:05Dax Shepard?

  Are you my mommy has a great book? Are you my mom? Are you my mom?

• 54:09Speaker 01

  I thought it was, are you my mother?

• 54:11Dax Shepard?

  It could be mother, but.

• 54:12Speaker 06

  It's mother.

• 54:13Dax Shepard?

  Fuck.

• 54:14Speaker 06

  Sorry.

• 54:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that's so formal.

• 54:17Speaker 01

  Sorry and thank you.

• 54:18Dax Shepard?

  No wonder people said no. They're like, you're stuck up. I'm your mother. I'm your mom.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  Mother, if you didn't grow up with them, they're your mother.

• 54:26Dax Shepard?

  The little bird asks a bulldozer if it's his mother. Are you my mother? It's a very sweet story. All right.

• 54:34Speaker 01

  I love you.

• 54:34Dax Shepard?

  Love you.

• 54:37Speaker 06

  Do you want to sing a tune or something? We'll do a theme song.

• 54:39Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay, great. We don't have a theme song for this new show, so here I go, go, go. We're gonna ask some random questions and with the help of our cherries, we'll get some suggestions. On the fly, a rhyme dish. On the fly, a rhyme dish. Enjoy.