Jesse Eisenberg

Jesse Eisenberg (A Real Pain, The Social Network, Now You See Me) is an Oscar-nominated actor, writer, and producer. Jesse joins the Armchair Expert to discuss not being cool enough to smoke, receiving a cease and desist letter as a kid from Woody Allen, and how community theater was his outlet for being an incredibly anxious child. Jesse and Dax discuss their saddest film wardrobe experiences, the Parmesan cheese version of Cyrano, and where movie roles rank on Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs. Jesse explains the very strange economy of promoting a movie, the Freudian breakdown of his characters in A Real Pain, and the solace of writing. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ http://www.wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Rather and I'm joined by Modest Mouse.

• 0:04Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 0:05Dax Shepard?

  Hello there.

• 0:07Speaker 01

  Hello there.

• 0:09Dax Shepard?

  Jesse Eisenberg. This is a reunion for he and I, as you'll find out. We met one other time.

• 0:16Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 0:17Dax Shepard?

  I really enjoyed Jesse Eisenberg.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  I enjoyed him so much.

• 0:23Dax Shepard?

  Truly.

• 0:23Speaker 01

  And when I was listening back, I was like, holy, this guy is great.

• 0:28Dax Shepard?

  He's a special dude.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  He is, and he's very quick. He's very funny.

• 0:33Dax Shepard?

  Mm hmm.

• 0:34Speaker 01

  He was a joy.

• 0:36Dax Shepard?

  He is incredible. He's an Academy Award nominated actor, filmmaker. Did I say actor?

• 0:41Speaker 01

  Is he a blessing?

• 0:42Dax Shepard?

  He's a borderline blessing.

• 0:43Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 0:44Dax Shepard?

  And he's a playwright. The Social Network, come on, guys. Now you see me. There's two, three, third coming, maybe? Zombie Land. Oh, Fleischman in Trouble, great show. When you finish saving the world and his movie is out right now, A Real Pain, which is a bona fide great movie. I hope people check out this movie. It's so, so good. It's so unique and honest and great. Please enjoy Jesse Eisenberg, The Blessing.

• 1:12Dax Shepard?

  The Blessing. You don't watch Christmas Vacation enough.

• 1:16Speaker 01

  Oh, I don't.

• 1:18Dax Shepard?

  Let's have Aunt so and so say grace. Grace, she's been dead for years. No, the blessing. They want you to say the blessing. He's pointing at his teeth or something. Because he's very old and he has a toupee and it catches on fire. Lots going on on that. Please enjoy Jesse Eisenberg. We get support from Quince.

• 1:36Speaker 01

  Okay, can we talk about the fact that the holidays are already here? It's crazy. I feel like I blinked and now we're in gifting season, which I'm not really mad about because I do love giving gifts and Quince is making it so easy to find something great for everyone on my list, including myself, because let's be honest, self-gifting is a love language.

• 1:55Dax Shepard?

  Quince is seriously the gift that keeps on giving. Their high-quality staples are made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, 14-karat gold and Italian leather, full-on luxury quality at prices that

• 2:10Dax Shepard?

  That won't wreck your holiday budget.

• 2:11Speaker 01

  It's the dream. The cashmere sweater starting at $60, down jackets, wool outerwear, cashmere accessories. You and everyone on your list are staying cozy and looking incredible all season long.

• 2:22Dax Shepard?

  Well, I'm gonna tell you this. It just got chilly for the first time this year in California and I'm so excited and I'm wearing my Quince cashmere right now.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  It's great.

• 2:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and I am going to gift this to some of my friends. I hope they're not listening.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  Quince is also more than clothing. They've got fine jewelry for your significant other, leather bags for your bestie, hotel quality bedding to set up your guest rooms, chef grade cookware. That's an amazing thing they offer here and it's such a good gift because people don't like buying cookware for themselves, but it's very important. And they also have five star luggage, another good gift that people don't like buying for themselves.

• 2:57Dax Shepard?

  Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Armchair Expert. It's the best way to support the show. This episode is brought to you by McDonald's. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese with Medium Fries and a Drink is now $8.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  What?

• 3:29Dax Shepard?

  Okay, I need to talk about something that doesn't get enough respect. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese. This is not a casual burger. This is a crafted burger. We're talking 100% fresh beef cooked right when you order it. No artificial flavors, no fillers, no preservatives. Just beef doing what beef is supposed to do. And here's a detail I love. There's a cowbell sound in the kitchen. When somebody orders a Quarter Pounder with Cheese, a cowbell goes off and the grill master throws a fresh patty down. That's like having your own entrance music at McDonald's. I want a cowbell for everything in life. The onions are hand topped by someone who just knows the right amount. Two slices of cheese laid out in a star pattern. So every single bite gets cheese and two pickles side by side. So you're never in a pickle desert.

• 4:13Dax Shepard?

  Every bite is accounted for. Someone engineered this thing with love. I love a Quarter Pounder.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  My order is a quarter pounder with cheese. I love it. I didn't know they put so much effort that they did a star formation. I should have known because you can taste.

• 4:31Dax Shepard?

  You can taste it. Yeah, the love. Don't tell anyone this, but I'll put two of them back.

• 4:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not surprised.

• 4:37Dax Shepard?

  The quarter pounder with cheese with fries and a drink now $8 for a limited time only, only at McDonald's. For a limited time only, prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska, and California, and for delivery. Fresh beef not available in Alaska and Hawaii. Offer not valid for delivery.

• 5:10Dax Shepard?

  How are you?

• 5:11Speaker 02

  Hi.

• 5:11Dax Shepard?

  Welcome. I'm sorry. I'm like.

• 5:12Speaker 02

  Oh, that's okay. Thanks for having me here.

• 5:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Oh, you smell delightful.

• 5:16Speaker 02

  Oh, you did.

• 5:17Dax Shepard?

  Did you already comment on that?

• 5:18Speaker 01

  I did not.

• 5:19Dax Shepard?

  Did you guys embrace?

• 5:20Speaker 01

  We shook hands.

• 5:21Dax Shepard?

  You shook hands.

• 5:22Speaker 01

  I'm wearing perfume. Is it possible it's me?

• 5:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's her. It's definitely not me.

• 5:26Dax Shepard?

  No, no, go smell him.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  Only if it's allowed, only if.

• 5:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you can smell everywhere.

• 5:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, you do smell nice. You do. You do.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  This was just given to me.

• 5:36Dax Shepard?

  By someone else?

• 5:37Speaker 02

  By somebody else, yeah.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  Well, that person smells great.

• 5:39Speaker 02

  So maybe she smelled great, yeah.

• 5:41Dax Shepard?

  My compliments to the former owner of that sweater.

• 5:43Speaker 02

  Oh, no, no, she's a stylist, so perhaps she sprays everything to her. She gives it to me. I'm being dressed for the next month.

• 5:48Dax Shepard?

  That's a fun first question. Is most of your wardrobe comprised of shit you've collected on sets?

• 5:53Speaker 02

  Only. One time I had taken my clothes from a movie and then we had to do promotion of the movie. And so I just changed out the clothes I had with the new version for the promotion. My lawyer called me and she said Sony called. You have to send back the new versions.

• 6:06Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 6:07Speaker 02

  That you replaced. So there is a risk.

• 6:10Speaker 01

  You can get caught.

• 6:11Dax Shepard?

  That's a ding ding ding because my only really sad experience I ever had with wardrobe was Sony.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  Really?

• 6:18Dax Shepard?

  Because in this movie Zathura, they made this really cool astronaut's outfit for me. And again, there were several and I wanted it and they said, no, you can't have it. And I said, I'll pay for it. And they said, no, you can't pay for it. And then years, years later, and I know you're not on social media, but like 15 years later, someone sent me a link to it being sold on eBay for like 15 bucks. It sold or something completely insignificant.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  You serious?

• 6:40Dax Shepard?

  Yes, the whole astronaut outfit. And I was like, those sons of bitches, I would have given them more than $15.

• 6:47Speaker 02

  Wait, who was selling it?

• 6:48Dax Shepard?

  I imagine Sony just was like, we gotta get rid of all this.

• 6:50Speaker 02

  15 bucks?

• 6:52Dax Shepard?

  We gotta get 15 bucks by Friday.

• 6:53Speaker 02

  Oh my God. We're gonna be kicked out of these offices.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  They maybe thought that it was gonna be such an enormous hit that it would be at the Smithsonian and then it would end up being worth millions and millions.

• 7:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, maybe we were both thinking the same thing.

• 7:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:08Dax Shepard?

  And then it came out and just didn't do that.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  Didn't really do. Yeah, I think it's eBay time.

• 7:14Dax Shepard?

  It could also be, you know, the company that made it. They could have duplicated, I don't even know. I don't want to throw Sony out of the.

• 7:19Speaker 02

  Were they selling it as a Zathura branded thing?

• 7:21Dax Shepard?

  Great question. I have forgotten.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  We'll have to do some research on that.

• 7:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, maybe you can have an intern.

• 7:25Dax Shepard?

  Okay, this is always a stressful question to hear out loud, especially in public. But do you remember meeting me?

• 7:29Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 7:30Speaker 02

  I was actually racking my brain trying to.

• 7:32Dax Shepard?

  I'll paint a picture for you.

• 7:33Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 7:34Dax Shepard?

  I don't know the year. It would be between 2008 and 2013 because that's when I shot the show. But I was at Universal shooting Parenthood and I'm outside my trailer and I see a young gentleman across the way in front of one of the bungalows. I think he's having a cigarette. Were you a smoker?

• 7:48Speaker 02

  No.

• 7:49Dax Shepard?

  You weren't a smoker. I could tell from a hundred yards. I'm like, that's Jesse.

• 7:53Speaker 02

  Oh my God, yes, I do remember.

• 7:55Dax Shepard?

  I could tell by your body posture.

• 7:56Speaker 02

  I just recalled this, yes, and I remember you were shooting there.

• 7:59Dax Shepard?

  And I strolled across this great divide like a hundred yards.

• 8:02Speaker 02

  I know exactly the day. Of course.

• 8:03Dax Shepard?

  I just harangued you.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  That's right. I was doing a reshoot for a movie and you were shooting. I remember exactly where it was. It was towards, Jesus Christ, I don't know any of the names of the streets out here. It was by whatever was closer to the street where you entered. Anyway, I totally remember that.

• 8:15Dax Shepard?

  I mostly out of curiosity had to confirm like, can I possibly be recognizing that's Jesse Eisenberg from this far away just by how he's standing?

• 8:23Speaker 02

  Yes, there's no one with my posture that would possibly be in a movie.

• 8:28Speaker 02

  I remember you were so sweet. Yeah, I was there for one day doing reshoots.

• 8:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And I came on, I'm like, I could tell you from, and you're like, okay, trying to take that in like, that's a weird icebreaker. And then we had a nice 15, 20 minute chat.

• 8:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 8:39Dax Shepard?

  I don't know why I remember you smoking, but I sexed you up a little bit.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  And you were holding it.

• 8:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was like, I was holding it for him. Yeah. He just like asked me to hold it. I swear.

• 8:48Speaker 02

  That's interesting. Maybe I was. Maybe I was going through a moment.

• 8:51Dax Shepard?

  Did you ever smoke?

• 8:52Speaker 02

  I've tried to smoke to relieve stress. I tried to take it up and thought like, this will help my personality and it just doesn't. I thought this will calm me and it does that little trick of you're finally breathing for the first time. We were taking like deep breaths. I always thought if they can come up with a cigarette that didn't make me nauseous, I'd be a heavy smoker.

• 9:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's kind of poisonous. I mean, I'm addicted to nicotine greatly.

• 9:10Speaker 02

  But not cigarettes.

• 9:11Dax Shepard?

  I smoked for, I don't know, 15 years and it's miserable. The first, I don't know, 100 cigarettes. You gotta really stick with it.

• 9:17Speaker 02

  You do. Okay. I tried to, and then I also tried to smoke during a movie where I was just feeling so stressful. And then this young assistant prop woman, she was really nice and we always used to talk and she was very friendly and nerdy. And she thought that we were kindred spirits. And then she saw me smoking one day and she came over to me and she just said, I thought you were different. And I always felt such shame.

• 9:36Dax Shepard?

  You had betrayed.

• 9:37Speaker 02

  Yes, whatever thing that she had assumed.

• 9:39Dax Shepard?

  Cause see, that was like a cool guy move.

• 9:41Speaker 02

  She didn't know that I was feeling deep, genuine anxiety and just trying to do anything to relieve myself. It was before I was taking like antidepressants. I was just trying anything.

• 9:48Dax Shepard?

  To regulate.

• 9:49Speaker 02

  Exactly. And it occurred to me after she said that, that, oh right, maybe it doesn't work on me anyway.

• 9:55Dax Shepard?

  Well, I don't want you to say that, but okay.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  I do. I don't think you need to pick it back up or anything. Yeah.

• 10:01Speaker 02

  But I like his encouragement more.

• 10:02Dax Shepard?

  My overarching hunch is that you've convinced yourself, there's a lot of things you can't pull off that you could.

• 10:08Speaker 02

  Maybe that's true.

• 10:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So my gut's telling me you think you weren't pulling it off and you probably were.

• 10:13Speaker 02

  You know what? That's very savvy of you. And as I get older, I start thinking more along those lines. Maybe I've kind of self-defined in a way that's actually maybe not the most.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  Accurate.

• 10:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:23Dax Shepard?

  This is one of Monica and I's longest standing battles. I think she's cooler than she thinks she is. I encouraged her to shave.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  I'm pretty cool, but he wants me to go extreme. He wants me to shave my hair.

• 10:34Dax Shepard?

  No, no, just aside. I thought she could really pull off like. Kind of a punk.

• 10:38Speaker 02

  One side.

• 10:38Dax Shepard?

  One side shaped.

• 10:39Speaker 02

  I like that.

• 10:40Dax Shepard?

  Right? Picture her in that.

• 10:41Speaker 01

  I like it too. It's not that I don't think I'm cool enough for that. It's just not me.

• 10:47Dax Shepard?

  Well, how do you know it's you until you try on some looks?

• 10:50Speaker 01

  Well, that's true because speaking of cigarettes for Halloween, I was Mary Kate and Ashley, one of them, current era. And so I was holding a cigarette the whole time. I've never smoked in my life. And so I wasn't smoking, but I was holding it and I was like,

• 11:02Dax Shepard?

  She got it.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  It is cool.

• 11:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 11:05Speaker 01

  Unfortunately.

• 11:07Speaker 02

  The line in Manhattan where he goes, I don't smoke because it gives you cancer, but I look so incredibly handsome with a cigarette in my mouth.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  It's true. You don't want it to be true, but it is.

• 11:16Dax Shepard?

  Have you ever bought a car and then you got in the car and you're like, oh, fuck, I don't think I can do this?

• 11:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, I got an airstream.

• 11:24Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 11:28Speaker 02

  Exactly. But I guess I feel that way anytime I'm going in reverse. But also, just like you'd stop at these campsites, I'd travel with my family and I would have to unhook the thing and I would always be asking for help. I was always just like the campsite's little brother, just asking for help, everybody. Can you show me how to use this tool that I carry around for some reason?

• 11:47Dax Shepard?

  Well, you kind of answered the question. So that was my hobby as a kid. So I'm pretty mechanical and we have a tour bus. And I say to my wife every time we're in it, because the entire time we're operating it, it's breaking. Like it's breaking real time as fast as I can fix anything. There's too much gadgetry on it.

• 12:01Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 12:01Dax Shepard?

  And I always say to Chris, I'm like, what is your normal person who's not a mechanic do with these recreational vehicles? Is yours in constant need of something?

• 12:09Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. I mean, it flooded in Minnesota in the deep, deep winter. And of course, the thing would freeze and break if I didn't do anything about it. And luckily, mechanics, they saw me in a movie was the only reason I got to get in there.

• 12:20Dax Shepard?

  You think the big things buy me item? Oh, no, my friend. That's basically a down payment.

• 12:24Speaker 02

  Exactly. I mean, there were just mice in the inside of the airstream. Not on the inside of the airstream, on the inside of the inside of the, like, within the two walls.

• 12:32Dax Shepard?

  Yes. Did they eat any plumbing? Because mice ate plumbing in my bus and it was so expensive. Because I have all this water, you know, I have two toilets and shit. They fucking ate through the plastic hoses. We went on vacation, all the water dumped on all the electronics, short circuited everything in the bus. The lights, everything.

• 12:48Speaker 02

  And then you found out later.

• 12:49Dax Shepard?

  This was the work of mice. Oh, wow. A coordinated effort by mice.

• 12:53Speaker 02

  What's the solution here?

• 12:54Dax Shepard?

  New fucking plumbing.

• 12:55Speaker 02

  But I mean, how do you get mice out of the things?

• 12:57Speaker 01

  Exactly. How do you prevent the mice?

• 12:58Dax Shepard?

  Well, first I went on a mice killing spree, which was I put traps out in the bus with yummy yummy peanut butter. Those ones were ethical and this fell on my sister, unfortunately. She had to go release them in Griffith Park. I assume they came right back.

• 13:10Speaker 02

  The ones where it closes in the little box?

• 13:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's like a little resting area before we take our next trip.

• 13:15Speaker 02

  Right, right. And they get the peanut butter.

• 13:18Dax Shepard?

  What did you find? Just bits of foam chewed up everywhere and turds?

• 13:21Speaker 02

  I took it into a place and they said, yes, they had eaten the entire inner foam lining of the thing.

• 13:25Dax Shepard?

  Here's the other thing about mice. They love eating plastic.

• 13:28Speaker 02

  Is that what it is? Are they actually eating it or just chewing and spitting it out?

• 13:31Dax Shepard?

  Well, okay, great point. I didn't see how much debris there was underneath.

• 13:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 13:36Dax Shepard?

  But yeah, they love insulation and wood.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  These things are not food.

• 13:39Dax Shepard?

  No, but they thrive on it.

• 13:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, they really do. We're currently trying to sell it.

• 13:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, that sounds right.

• 13:45Dax Shepard?

  Well, this is a great place to offer it. We've made a great pitch for the product. I think.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  My wife was just asking the school moms if anybody knows anybody, but this is a far wider reach.

• 13:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh, yeah.

• 13:54Speaker 02

  Exactly. Is there an info app?

• 13:57Speaker 01

  Mouse ridden.

• 13:58Dax Shepard?

  Please in the comments, what's year and the size?

• 14:00Speaker 02

  2017 16 foot Bambi Sport.

• 14:04Dax Shepard?

  Beautiful.

• 14:04Speaker 02

  I would say good condition, but now you know.

• 14:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, riddled with mice.

• 14:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was gonna say never had mice, but now you know. But I got it. I fixed it up. It's mint condition.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  Oh, it's gorgeous.

• 14:13Speaker 02

  So is it [email protected]?

• 14:15Dax Shepard?

  Yes, that's exactly right.

• 14:17Speaker 02

  And just give me a number. I don't want to have to start going through a whole thing.

• 14:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and you don't want to be in a long-term negotiation. Just throw out your final number.

• 14:23Speaker 02

  I'm easy. We want to sell.

• 14:25Dax Shepard?

  The seller's very motivated.

• 14:26Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 14:26Dax Shepard?

  Where do you keep this?

• 14:28Speaker 02

  I live in New York, so I keep this on my mother's lawn in New Jersey.

• 14:31Dax Shepard?

  Okay, and so when you guys want to go on a trip, you drive? Do you rent a truck or do you own a truck?

• 14:35Speaker 02

  During the pandemic, I bought my very first car, which was just a Jeep Cherokee. I never had a car because I'm in New York. Then I gave it to my sister, so I don't have the car anymore either. So I have to go to my sister's, get the car. Then I have to drive to my mom. So it's a great way to visit your whole family.

• 14:49Dax Shepard?

  Yes, only to get 20 miles down the road and realize there's a major mechanical issue with the trailer.

• 14:54Speaker 02

  That's exactly it.

• 14:55Speaker 01

  Are you confident driving? Even though you've never had a car until a couple of years ago?

• 15:01Speaker 02

  Yes, is a good question. I'm confident. My dad was a taxi driver in New York right before I was born and he taught me how to drive. And so I guess the word would be cocky.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  Okay, arrogant.

• 15:09Speaker 02

  Arrogant driver, fearless to a dangerous degree.

• 15:12Dax Shepard?

  Okay, this is great. So cars can be so healing because you're saying you feel very confident and it sounds like you're aggressive in the car.

• 15:20Speaker 02

  Oh, I see where you're going.

• 15:21Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  Why don't I use that as the real me and smoke a cigarette out the window of my Jeep?

• 15:25Dax Shepard?

  Spit tobacco out the windows?

• 15:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 15:28Dax Shepard?

  You have a piss jar like in Crazy Heart?

• 15:30Speaker 02

  Shaved head blowing in the wind.

• 15:31Dax Shepard?

  Oh, fuck.

• 15:32Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  One side of her head blowing in the wind, the other side having a sheer breeze.

• 15:38Dax Shepard?

  This is a good movie. This is Monica and Jesse Go Wild.

• 15:40Speaker 01

  Cause I'm pretty tame as well.

• 15:42Dax Shepard?

  But I do think the car, so we, okay, you were brought home as a little tiny bambino to Queens?

• 15:47Speaker 02

  Wow, yes.

• 15:48Dax Shepard?

  Okay, but then when do we move to New Jersey?

• 15:50Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 15:51Dax Shepard?

  Oh, this is the tip of the iceberg.

• 15:53Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 15:53Dax Shepard?

  That's nothing. That's very cursory. I'll get deeper.

• 15:55Speaker 02

  Are you serious?

• 15:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have your physical from 10th grade.

• 16:00Speaker 02

  Well, you're in luck because it's the same physical right now.

• 16:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, we went to New Jersey when I was five years old and then I grew up in the suburbs, but I left when I was 18, so I got my license at 19. So this explains the driving situation here.

• 16:12Dax Shepard?

  I was counting down the days till 16. I could not wait, but I grew up in a rural area of Michigan outside of Detroit. And in New Jersey, clearly kids were driving, right? You were probably anxious to get your permit and all that.

• 16:22Speaker 02

  Not really. What happened was I was starting acting and then I also was going to a high school in New York City. And so I was taking the bus into New York City every day from New Jersey to go to high school and I was around no one driving.

• 16:31Dax Shepard?

  Okay, right.

• 16:32Speaker 02

  So like I was only around city kids. In fact, I had to use a fake address to be there. It was a city public school.

• 16:37Dax Shepard?

  This is the performance art senior year?

• 16:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:39Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 16:39Speaker 02

  Every time you reference anything, I'm going to be in shock.

• 16:43Dax Shepard?

  I want you to pace yourself, though.

• 16:44Speaker 02

  I think I could sustain the same level of impressed.

• 16:47Dax Shepard?

  This is, it's kind of like an acting exercise.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 16:49Dax Shepard?

  Okay, this is your greatest day of your life. So no matter what, that would be an acting exercise. This is the greatest day of your life, no matter what information you hear. And then I would say, thank you for coming in, Mr. Eisenberg. We just got your lab results back. And unfortunately, you are showing a very large tumor in your neck. You've got a couple of months left.

• 17:04Speaker 02

  Right. Wait, sorry, what's happening?

• 17:06Dax Shepard?

  It's the greatest day of your life despite the information I give you.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:09Speaker 02

  This is the, wait, you mean it's like the greatest day and then I go to the doctor?

• 17:13Dax Shepard?

  No, the acting exercise is this is the greatest day of your life despite whatever information.

• 17:18Speaker 02

  I get it. Okay, got it.

• 17:19Dax Shepard?

  Mr. Eisenberg.

• 17:20Speaker 01

  Let's take this back. Let's try it one more time.

• 17:22Dax Shepard?

  Okay, got it. Did you cut, Rob?

• 17:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, you cut. Okay.

• 17:25Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you cut. Don't ever cut. Wait till I yell cut. Yes, we did get your sonogram back of your chest and you have a very large mass.

• 17:33Speaker 02

  How large are we talking here?

• 17:34Dax Shepard?

  Eight to 12 inches, it seems like on the skin. So virtually your full left lobe of your lung.

• 17:39Speaker 02

  So my whole lung is this other thing?

• 17:41Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 17:41Speaker 02

  This is incredible, you know, because I have not seen an episode of The Wire and I keep promising myself if I ever find myself bedridden, if I get the flu, or in this case, obviously, it's something much more long term. I'll finally.

• 17:52Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my God. Well, congratulations. You're gonna love it. It's a great show. Be patient of the first three episodes.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 17:58Dax Shepard?

  It takes a minute for the writing to set in.

• 18:00Speaker 02

  That's fine. Obviously, I have the time. And is the right lung okay? Because I've also not done Breaking Bad.

• 18:04Dax Shepard?

  It's not great, but it'll make it through, I think, both series.

• 18:08Speaker 02

  Really?

• 18:09Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 18:09Speaker 02

  This is great. The left is that bad?

• 18:10Dax Shepard?

  The left is not great.

• 18:11Speaker 02

  Okay, great. Great. Can I do the old sitcoms? You know, 10 years of 20 episodes of Perfect Strangers?

• 18:17Dax Shepard?

  You're probably not gonna get through Cheers.

• 18:19Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 18:19Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 18:19Speaker 02

  And I'm not gonna make it through Cheers?

• 18:21Dax Shepard?

  That's right.

• 18:21Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 18:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. But what a great show to go out and watch.

• 18:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay, this is great.

• 18:26Speaker 01

  This was fantastic.

• 18:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you did a really good job. If I'm your teacher, I'm gonna say.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  At first, I thought it was so good that at first I was like, he still doesn't get it, but he really got it.

• 18:34Dax Shepard?

  He got it.

• 18:35Speaker 02

  I was playing.

• 18:36Dax Shepard?

  I need to do a few minutes on Mom and Dad because they both have very, very colorful, interesting backgrounds. So as you said, your father was a taxi driver, but he also worked at a hospital. And he also became a college professor of sociology. This doesn't seem like a possible trajectory. That sounds like an immigrant story.

• 18:53Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. His dad worked at a cafeteria and then my dad was the first one to go to college in the family. Now he's a college teacher.

• 18:59Dax Shepard?

  So he's a bright guy.

• 19:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, really smart.

• 19:01Dax Shepard?

  How long was he driving a cab and working at the hospital?

• 19:03Speaker 02

  A few years in Queens. Oh, no, he worked at the hospital after that. When I was a kid, he worked in hospital administration and then the hospital merged with another hospital. And so he started teaching.

• 19:11Speaker 01

  Where does he teach?

• 19:12Speaker 02

  He teaches through the SUNY system at a school called Empire State. It's part of like the State University of New York system.

• 19:18Dax Shepard?

  SUNY as in opposed to Shiite?

• 19:19Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 19:20Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 19:21Speaker 02

  And which is weird, so my mom is Shia.

• 19:22Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  That's complicated.

• 19:25Speaker 02

  And I was raised Jewish.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  They went that neutral route.

• 19:29Speaker 02

  The two fronts met in the middle.

• 19:30Dax Shepard?

  That's something we can both agree on.

• 19:34Dax Shepard?

  And then mom was a choreographer in a high school.

• 19:38Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. That's not even on the.

• 19:39Dax Shepard?

  She was also a clown by the name of Kalana. What was her mom?

• 19:44Speaker 02

  Bonnabini.

• 19:44Dax Shepard?

  Bonnabini.

• 19:45Speaker 02

  Wait, so that's on the internet?

• 19:46Dax Shepard?

  Or I got your mom's number.

• 19:47Speaker 02

  Got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 19:48Dax Shepard?

  Which is also on the internet.

• 19:49Speaker 02

  Leading to the number thing.

• 19:50Dax Shepard?

  Can we take one second to recognize that we've interviewed 800 people? No one's mother was a clown. I mean, you gotta acknowledge this is a very novel thing.

• 19:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, she was not bozo or like Barnum and Bailey circus. She was doing birthday parties in the tri-state area of New Jersey. I guess I never perceived it as my mom, the clown, because people didn't know. Wasn't like, wow, your mom's that clown? It was more like this is her job on the weekends.

• 20:12Dax Shepard?

  You never had a friend over that had this eerie feeling he or she had met your mother before? And then hours later went, oh, my God, did your mother do my fourth grade?

• 20:20Speaker 02

  Could you just put on tons of makeup for a second?

• 20:24Speaker 02

  Real quick, blow up 100 balloons. You know, it's actually funny. Now that people know me, people do come up to me and said, your mom did my birthday party because they've linked it somehow, but she was really great. So every Saturday and Sunday, she would basically wake up six in the morning, tune her guitar, blow up 100 balloons. And so it was disciplined for a really silly performance.

• 20:41Dax Shepard?

  She was a business owner. She was a hustler.

• 20:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, actually, I didn't think of it that way.

• 20:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that's like a good model to have as a mom, I think.

• 20:47Speaker 02

  And as a performer, because I work with a lot of performers who I still have to get over the hump of thinking, this is so silly what I do.

• 20:52Dax Shepard?

  Embarrassing.

• 20:53Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? Yeah, embarrassment. And I just never really had that because I saw somebody who took it so seriously. My mom never said, so weird today. I was in makeup. It was just like, yeah, this was my job. This is what I'm doing. And I took it really seriously.

• 21:03Dax Shepard?

  Yes. So now I guess this is common knowledge. I didn't know this before researching you, but when I told my wife excitedly from the bedroom, you're not going to believe who Jesse Eisenberg's little sister is.

• 21:15Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah. Did she know?

• 21:16Dax Shepard?

  She knew immediately. But do you know, Monica? His little sister was the Pepsi Girl, the Pepsi Girl, the one you're thinking of.

• 21:22Speaker 01

  I love her.

• 21:23Dax Shepard?

  Everyone loved her. She was universally loved.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  And so she was working at the same time you were before.

• 21:29Speaker 02

  She's 10 years younger, but she was through a series of weird fluky things was in movies and very popular commercials when, yeah, I was like 14.

• 21:37Dax Shepard?

  But you were already acting, right? Cause your first, you were an understudy at 12 years old for a Tennessee Williams play.

• 21:43Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 21:44Dax Shepard?

  That's pretty nuts. How do we get to?

• 21:45Speaker 02

  I was doing children's theater in New Jersey.

• 21:48Dax Shepard?

  And again, is there something I'm just put you in?

• 21:49Speaker 02

  No, she put my older sister who was shy and I just wanted to be with my older sister. I didn't really like performing. It was on the weekends, children's theater every Saturday and Sunday. And then I had troubles in school and so I just wanted to do anything to have an outlet from school. So I started doing community theater. It's like non-professional, but with adults in same towns. And it was amazing outlet for me. And then an agent from New York had come seen something and asked me if I would go on an audition for this play. It was Summer in Smoke, this Tennessee Williams play.

• 22:16Dax Shepard?

  So 12 was your first professional audition and you got it.

• 22:20Speaker 02

  Well, I got like the understudy.

• 22:21Dax Shepard?

  Well, that's a lot more than I've gotten on Broadway.

• 22:23Speaker 02

  Well, sure, but it was a really weird job to get at 12 because it was like, oh, you know how you like doing that acting thing? You're not going to get to do that at all.

• 22:30Dax Shepard?

  You're going to get to watch a lot of.

• 22:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. And then you're going to play poker and smoke cigarettes backstage with all the other people are kind of waiting for somebody else to get sick.

• 22:39Dax Shepard?

  Praying for an injury.

• 22:39Speaker 02

  Exactly that.

• 22:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So do you have to go there every night if you're an understudy?

• 22:44Speaker 02

  You go there every night. Again, for me, this was just a dream come true because then I get to go to New York City every night. I didn't have to like interact with people at school because I had this other thing and I couldn't have friends anyway. Cause I was leaving. I got to miss Wednesdays in school because they do the day shows and Broadway. It was just great.

• 22:58Dax Shepard?

  Do you remember how much you were making?

• 22:59Speaker 02

  I think I do, or at least I can figure it out because it was the roundabout theater on Broadway, which they had these special contracts where you can make something like $220 a week.

• 23:08Dax Shepard?

  It wasn't thousands.

• 23:09Speaker 02

  Gosh, no, no, no, no, no.

• 23:10Dax Shepard?

  Cause if I was 12 and you were paying me a couple of grand a week to come hang and play poker.

• 23:13Speaker 02

  Oh God, no, there's like no economy for that kind of thing. I made money when I was just about to turn 16 and I got on a TV series, Get Realist, Fox show. That's when I made money and we were all just in a state of bewilderment.

• 23:24Dax Shepard?

  Yes, I bet. Even though at that point, little sister had also generated a bunch of money.

• 23:28Speaker 02

  She started making money at like five years old and it was crazy. My parents are wonderful, wonderful people and this is not a but this, this is an end this. And when my sister made money when she was younger, it was just like a weight off the shoulders of my house.

• 23:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure.

• 23:45Speaker 02

  And they didn't even want to take her money. You know, there's the rules. It was just for the first time, the lid went off the pot. And again, this is all for her, for college.

• 23:52Dax Shepard?

  But there's a safety net.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:53Dax Shepard?

  Somewhere in the mix.

• 23:54Speaker 02

  Somebody loses a leg. Yeah, it was like amazing. And then I got on this TV show and then since that moment, it all just feels like a joke to me. Getting money for acting, the whole thing just feels like a joke to me and my family and my wife. It all just feels like this is ridiculous. I can't believe no one's telling them they don't have to do this. That we would all be here anyway.

• 24:14Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes. We would. Would we go promote? That's the question. I've been told that's what you get paid to do is go promote. Unless it's a podcast, then you would do that for free as well.

• 24:23Speaker 02

  Oh my God. Well, it's the Armchair Expert. I mean, can I pay? Even the promoting thing, I just got back from Poland promoting the movie that I filmed in Poland. And being there to promote it, I was staying in literally the nicest hotel in Warsaw. And it was the hotel that we would pass every day as we went to our bad apartments. And it's so fun. So I'm like, oh my God, this is what it feels like to promote a thing. Versus when you're making a thing and there's a small budget for making an independent film and there's no money for any of that stuff.

• 24:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, no one asked for this, but I think the finances of this would interest people who are not in show business. So if you think about a studio has a budget to promote the movie and they're trying to get it in front of as many eyeballs as possible. And so they have many options. They can buy a TV commercial and a 30 second spot's going to cost however many tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. Versus we send you to Camel, we show a clip of it and you talk about the movie. We can count that as basically two ad spots. So by their math, they just saved $200,000. So if they're going to send you out there, my God, they'll spend five grand on your hotel room. Don't give a shit. And they'll pay for you to get a massage and it's a big savings for them. So it's the best we ever lived.

• 25:24Speaker 02

  You have just explained something that I have tried to articulate for a long time because it sounds like a little inside baseball-y of the movie industry. But what you just described is the very strange economy of promoting a movie.

• 25:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And they have a set budget. They're like, we're going to spend 30 million marketing this or five million. Whatever it is.

• 25:39Speaker 02

  So you doing that one magazine thing is the equivalent of them buying an ad in that same magazine, which would cost way more than your $150 hotel room. But for us, the trickle down, just ripple effect of it is you feel like this is crazy.

• 25:51Dax Shepard?

  It's the only time you feel like a movie star.

• 25:53Speaker 02

  Exactly. And the movie I made was $3 million, which again, this sounds a little insider-y baseball, but it's like very, very little money to make like a real movie that requires tons of sets, et cetera.

• 26:02Dax Shepard?

  Absolutely.

• 26:03Speaker 01

  Speaking of, when you just said it's the only time you feel like a movie star, do you like feeling like a movie star?

• 26:07Speaker 02

  I just literally came from a hotel where I asked them to put me in a smaller room because it makes me uncomfortable. I don't know if that's the New York thing. I just don't like.

• 26:15Dax Shepard?

  A smaller room.

• 26:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. My bags are currently at the front desk because they're getting the smaller room ready. I feel a little out of sorts.

• 26:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:24Speaker 02

  I feel a little weird. I feel like it's also wasteful. Like if there's a room that I'm not going to be in a lot, I don't want it to exist, you know?

• 26:30Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 26:31Speaker 02

  It's also like New York living, though. You would never get an extra anything in New York. You'd never get an extra closet in New York. You would put a friend there.

• 26:38Speaker 01

  You don't like attention would be my guess also?

• 26:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, I guess I like it and hated it.

• 26:42Dax Shepard?

  Gangly hillbilly crosses the parking lot to say, "Hey, I could tell you're Jesse Eisenberg by what you're standing."

• 26:48Speaker 02

  It was the parking lot of Universal Studios where you were filming a major popular show.

• 26:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I already got through one round of security, I suppose.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 26:56Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so you were already on that trajectory. You've said a couple of times, "School is miserable." What version? I mean, I guess I have hunches.

• 27:04Speaker 02

  Oh, I really had a very bad.

• 27:06Dax Shepard?

  Were you shy and nervous?

• 27:08Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no. I was hysterically crying when I was four years old. Like, I got kicked out of preschool because I couldn't leave my mom. I guess I maybe thought of it as separation anxiety or something.

• 27:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 27:15Speaker 02

  But it was just, I was crazy. I mean, I went to a mental institution when I was 13 because I went crazy and left school for a year.

• 27:21Dax Shepard?

  You did?

• 27:22Speaker 02

  I was like a very troubled kid. I don't know exactly why.

• 27:25Speaker 01

  Because of anxiety.

• 27:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, severe anxiety and all this stuff.

• 27:28Dax Shepard?

  OCD?

• 27:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, OCD, but it was more just like I couldn't go to school. It just killed me. When I was in first grade, I cried every day. Sorry, it's kind of like a funny story, but it's also sad, whatever, if you were me.

• 27:37Dax Shepard?

  Those are the best kinds.

• 27:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like sad if you were me, funny if you're basically anybody else. But I cried every day of first grade to the point where if I didn't cry on the bus ride, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, on Friday, the bus driver gave everybody Tootsie Roll Pot. And so I tried to not cry on the bus.

• 27:51Speaker 01

  So that everyone could get their tootsie.

• 27:53Speaker 02

  And then on Friday, literally on Friday, you'd hear down my block, don't cry, Jesse. People chanting at the bus because they would get to zero pups. So I would be holding it in until I got to school, then I was allowed to cry.

• 28:03Speaker 01

  Oh, this is heartbreaking.

• 28:05Dax Shepard?

  Now, here's my hope is that it was so endearing that it got you out of getting bullied for it.

• 28:12Speaker 02

  You know what's so weird? I always wanted to be bullied because I thought it would give me a reason.

• 28:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 28:17Speaker 02

  For some reason I wasn't.

• 28:18Dax Shepard?

  Well, that's really kind of life affirming, to be honest, because I do think even shitty kids have some critical mass of suffering. Okay, he's already too fucked up.

• 28:27Speaker 02

  Oh, maybe that's it.

• 28:28Dax Shepard?

  They'll push, push, push, and then there's a moment where their actual conscience kicks in, I think.

• 28:32Speaker 02

  That's a really good point.

• 28:34Dax Shepard?

  So that's weirdly kind of hopeful that you were crying that much and they were just going, don't cry, don't cry. Not like, if you cry, you fucking baby.

• 28:40Speaker 02

  That's really weird. I actually never considered why, maybe that's what it was.

• 28:43Dax Shepard?

  I think so.

• 28:44Speaker 02

  I was in sixth grade this one time. It was right before I left school. This kid, I'd never talked to him ever, and he picked up some wood chips and he threw them. And it was kind of in my direction, but it wasn't at me at all. I promise you, because I didn't know this person, I promise you guys, because you're not going to believe me. I was so desperate for them to hit me so I could have a reason for my misery. So I can pin it on something so I can tell my mom, no, I'm crying because this kid, and I even knew his name because I was trying to concoct a story in my head where this kid was my torturer and that's why school was hard for me.

• 29:11Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 29:12Speaker 02

  But it wasn't, and it wasn't even at me. And that's in some ways like the saddest thing of all. I couldn't have a place for it.

• 29:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 29:18Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 29:19Dax Shepard?

  What parent do you think it was harder on? I mean, it's hardest on you, let me say that first. As a parent, that would be absolutely heartbreaking for me to know my kid gets on the bus and cries the whole way to school every day.

• 29:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:30Dax Shepard?

  But I weirdly guess that dad would be in a very big panic that this world's going to be too hard for a boy and that he somehow has got to toughen you up. And how does he do it?

• 29:39Speaker 02

  That's exactly what happened, but I didn't think of it that way.

• 29:41Dax Shepard?

  He'd probably so overcome with fear, oh, this poor boy is going to get destroyed.

• 29:46Speaker 02

  That's exactly what happened. So he would like push me back to school. And then when I got out of the institution, it was basically like, if I don't go to school, then I go back to this place, which was terrible. He was doing tough love.

• 29:56Dax Shepard?

  Out of his fear, I'm sure that you were going to. Suffer your whole life.

• 29:59Speaker 02

  And also the fact that he was probably right, which is that if I just did it and committed to it and didn't have the option to not do it, I would probably learn to be okay.

• 30:07Dax Shepard?

  What was the institution like?

• 30:09Speaker 02

  It was genuinely terrifying.

• 30:10Dax Shepard?

  Do you mean any sexy Ali Sheedy types that were like misunderstood? I have a fantasy about falling in love at one of these places.

• 30:16Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 30:17Dax Shepard?

  Does that make any sense?

• 30:18Speaker 02

  I don't recall thinking this is a great opportunity for me.

• 30:22Dax Shepard?

  You can see the movie in your head, right? The teenagers that go to the derelict center and then she's really hot, misunderstood. And she just needs to talk about her dad to you and everything will be fine.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  Very vulnerable.

• 30:32Speaker 02

  I'm sensing we were different 13 year old boys. I didn't go in there thinking like, I can clean up, you know, every cloud.

• 30:41Dax Shepard?

  I would be thinking cohabitation with other teenagers. What might happen?

• 30:44Speaker 01

  Okay, that's probably why you didn't have to go there.

• 30:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. Because you were doing that in school and everybody thought you were awesome. No, I remember asking this one kid for his shoelaces so I can kill myself. And then I was brought into a soft room with a deflated volleyball.

• 30:56Dax Shepard?

  Oh, no.

• 30:58Speaker 02

  No, and I remember he was the coolest kid. I don't know what that means at the time.

• 31:02Dax Shepard?

  He was the Jack Nicholson character.

• 31:03Speaker 02

  Exactly that. And I remember asking him for the shoelaces, thinking like, oh, he's going to think I'm cool. I don't know what the equivalent is like going up to the biggest guy on the jail yard and punching him in the face. You know, I was doing, I guess, the, but it was last I was also punished for it.

• 31:15Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 31:22Dax Shepard?

  We get support from no bull. The holidays can get hectic. You finally hit a post summer routine and suddenly you're on hosting duty every week.

• 31:32Speaker 01

  That's when you really need to ground yourself.

• 31:34Dax Shepard?

  Exactly. And that's why I keep my training routine through the holidays. It's the whole no bull idea. There's a no bullshit training brand built around consistency, honesty, and just putting in the work. It's not about adding more pressure to an already packed schedule. It's about having the gear and the habits to move through the season your way. My personal favorite, all three of the shoes are fantastic. The Outwork, the Outwork Flex and the Drive Two. I like the Drive Two because it's a hybrid and I lift, of course, but I also like to do what's called box jumps. Right? I do a lot of jumping onto a little platform and. I want a little more flexibility and boy do they deliver.

• 32:11Speaker 01

  And if you're a cardio person and you're running and you also need to be lifting.

• 32:16Dax Shepard?

  And the style is banging. I don't know what to say. Beautiful style, very breathable, very, very comfortable, lots of support. They were built for lifting.

• 32:24Speaker 01

  They also make a great holiday gift. You know, I love gifting, a purposeful one that actually supports someone's goals and routines. And it's not a gift that just ends up in the back of the closet.

• 32:33Dax Shepard?

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• 33:06Speaker 04

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• 33:46Speaker 04

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• 34:03Dax Shepard?

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• 34:48Dax Shepard?

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• 35:15Dax Shepard?

  This episode is supported by Helix.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  Okay, can we talk about how November is basically survival mode? Between the holidays, the travel, the hosting, the cooking, the everything. Sleep is the one thing keeping me from completely unraveling.

• 35:29Dax Shepard?

  It really is the foundation. And I think people underestimate how much a bad mattress is quietly ruining their day. You wake up stiff, your back's angry, you're already behind before your feet hit the floor.

• 35:40Speaker 01

  That was me before Helix. I took their sleep quiz, which is so fast, it took me like two minutes. And they matched me to a mattress that actually fits how I sleep. Not a guess, not a firm or soft coin flip, it's a real match. I have a midnight mattress and I really like it. I was noticing it because I actually had to sleep in one of my other beds.

• 35:57Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 35:57Speaker 01

  Recently.

• 35:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 35:58Speaker 01

  That doesn't have a Helix mattress on it and I really could tell a big difference in my sleep.

• 36:02Dax Shepard?

  Temperature was all over the map.

• 36:04Speaker 01

  It was a mess.

• 36:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 36:05Speaker 01

  I need a new one.

• 36:05Dax Shepard?

  Look, they've got over 20 mattress models. So whether you sleep hot, need extra back support, or you've got a partner who moves around all night, there's one. Built for you plus free shipping and a 365 night happy with Helix guarantee. That's a full year to decide.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  Helix has been named the most awarded mattress by Forbes, Wired and more. So it's not just us being enthusiastic. The experts agree.

• 36:27Dax Shepard?

  Right now, Helix is running their Black Friday sale with up to 30% off. Go to helixsleep.com/armchair for up to 30% off your Helix mattress. That's helixsleep.com/armchair for up to 30% off your Helix mattress. Helixsleep.com/armchair.

• 36:51Dax Shepard?

  Okay. So we're laughing about it, but were you terrified? Were you thinking at that point, there's something fundamentally broken with me and I'm not going to be able to function on this planet? Were you scared?

• 37:01Speaker 02

  That's how it felt, but I mean, I still have that same weird dread underlying, but I'm on like antidepressants now. So it helps a lot, but yeah, just that weird dread of the bottom is going to constantly drop out. It's weird. I'm doing this press tour and I just keep waiting for the bad thing to happen. We got good reviews. I was like, okay, that's good. And then the movie did well on the opening weekend. They made more money than they thought. I was like, that's good. So now something really terrible is going to happen to me. So I thought it was going to be the movie, but now it's like, no, I'm going to get hit by the car. It's not even get hit by the car. It's more like existential, like people are going to realize I'm a terrible person. Something I live with this dread. I assume it helps me in some way.

• 37:34Dax Shepard?

  Well, I've heard you talk about harnessing it in a positive direction. I think that's virtually the only option you have on the table is you got to learn to work with your character defects and exploit them for the good side and try to mitigate the downside.

• 37:47Speaker 02

  Yes, I guess so. You have no choice.

• 37:48Dax Shepard?

  I wrestle with this too. I write from a place of you're a lazy piece of shit. You're a failure. If you don't accomplish this, everything is negatively motivated. And so I relate to it. When I hear you speak about it, I'm like, oh yeah, I do a very similar thing. And then feeling guilt that I have to be motivated that way by self loathing and all this. And then hopefully some compassion and forgiveness and acceptance. You're that way and okay, here we go.

• 38:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I do so enjoy my work. I feel like I just won the lottery that I get to be able to do something I genuinely like. So that's really helpful. And also my work is emotionally cathartic because it's an emotional job. And so that's really helpful too. All the stuff around it is really kind of unnerving. In terms of the negative motivation thing, we're in the arts and no one's really asking us. Now you have an incredibly popular show, but probably at the beginning, no one was begging you to do this. No one was begging you to be on parenting. You know, all the stuff we're doing has to be self motivating because no one cares. Like, oh, can you write a script today? No, no, who gives a shit?

• 38:42Dax Shepard?

  Right, right.

• 38:43Speaker 02

  And so like, I wonder if we in some ways are looking for some kind of motivation because there is no external demand to do the thing. It's not like you have to punch in like you guys created this from nothing and it's turned into this thing. Now forcing yourself to think in these weird ways to motivate yourself.

• 38:58Dax Shepard?

  It's hard.

• 38:59Speaker 01

  It is.

• 38:59Speaker 02

  Because I sit down, I write a script a year. My background's playwriting, but I don't really need to do that because I make money from acting. But I feel like I'm going to be a failure if I don't do it. And so I live with this dread of failure. And when I step back, sometimes I think, oh, maybe that's just the thing I create in my head to force myself to do the thing I like.

• 39:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 39:17Speaker 02

  Is that possible?

• 39:18Dax Shepard?

  No, I think it's possible. I also think it's fascinating that you can have, or in my case, it's like this split confidence. There's no self esteem at all and imposter syndrome and all this stuff. And then also this, you're a failure, which has innately in it some idea that I'm supposed to be special and super prolific and good.

• 39:39Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, yes, that's fascinating.

• 39:41Dax Shepard?

  So this dichotomy of I'm unworthy and I'm a fraud. And also you're supposed to be doing great things. They're kind of incompatible.

• 39:47Speaker 02

  That's very true. And I'm not acting, my days look like this. I wake up in the morning, I'm depressed, but I'm so happy I get to take my kid to school and I love my wife. I mean, that's not like an active thing. That's just something that's underlying the relationship.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  I'm sure some days you have to think it.

• 39:59Speaker 02

  Yes, some days there's an active loving my wife and some days there's just a passive, I love you, honey. And keep that in your mind. And then I just go into a real funk until the library opens at 10:30, which is where I go right up until 10:30. A miserable, stupid failure. I can't believe I have the posture that Dax Shepard could recognize from 30 feet away. No other person would ever be in a movie studio with my posture. And then the library opens and then I go and I start writing and I'm sitting there laughing at my own jokes. Like the most arrogant guy in the world and then I'm crying because I just wrote a monologue. I'm crying about the monologue and everything. And then I finish the thing and I go back home and I'm just such a loser, such a loser. My wife's gonna leave me. I'm such a loser.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  Oh my.

• 40:36Speaker 02

  My kid thinks I'm a bad role model. And it's so weird, but while I'm doing the thing, in some ways, I guess I think I'm amazing. I guess so.

• 40:41Dax Shepard?

  Yes, right.

• 40:42Speaker 02

  Because I'm sitting there writing it.

• 40:43Speaker 01

  Well, you've been validated there too.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, but my wife validates me as a person too. And my kid loves me.

• 40:48Speaker 01

  Work can be validated externally, but you cannot be validated externally.

• 40:53Speaker 02

  Oh wow, that's a good distinction.

• 40:54Speaker 01

  You as a person and your character, that's gotta come from you. So it doesn't matter what your wife says, that's the juxtaposition.

• 41:00Speaker 02

  I know this thing that I'm outputting, which is not exactly me, is gonna be okay.

• 41:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 41:04Dax Shepard?

  I picked this up in AA and it's been kinda helpful in me governing how bad the self-loathing can be. Because in there it says that self-pity is the other side of the coin is self-aggrandizement. You've still elevated yourself to some level where the universe cares is against you or you have bad luck coming your way, right? Like today, you know, something bad's coming. You're not that important to warrant this bad luck or the right sizing of the justice.

• 41:29Speaker 02

  The piece of shit at the center of the universe.

• 41:31Dax Shepard?

  Yes, another great AA thing we say a lot. Or I'm not much, but I'm all I think about.

• 41:36Speaker 02

  That's really funny.

• 41:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And sometimes I'll be in that kinda self-pity or it's self-pity adjacent, right?

• 41:42Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 41:42Dax Shepard?

  And I'll go, this is so indulgent. This is as indulgent of being a megalomaniac, which I would not tolerate from myself. So if I can turn that same ire onto the self-loathing part and go like, it's still you feeling way too important.

• 41:55Speaker 02

  That is brilliant. So you're saying you'd be so ashamed to be the arrogant person that you should also be ashamed to be this person who's like self-loathing as though you've committed some great...

• 42:03Dax Shepard?

  You should. You can imagine someone going, get over yourself. You're not fucking so important and you're not suffering any more than anyone else.

• 42:09Speaker 02

  But then don't you feel like, oh my God, now I feel bad because I was a narcissist. I'm the worst narcissist in the world.

• 42:13Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 42:14Speaker 02

  I think I'm the worst single narcissist.

• 42:18Dax Shepard?

  Yes, but I think it starts dissipating every one of these steps you take. So then it becomes a little manageable that your ego got away from you. I don't know.

• 42:24Speaker 02

  Why does this cross over to AA? Because drinking is trying to solve those problems.

• 42:28Dax Shepard?

  We have this weird dichotomy of being so important and then also zero self-esteem.

• 42:32Speaker 02

  And it's a thing that's very relatable to most people there.

• 42:34Dax Shepard?

  It seems to be very universal in AA. My hunch is it's probably universal to humans. But we have, for whatever reason, determined that was one of the main driving forces of the self obliteration.

• 42:45Speaker 02

  Yes, that's really interesting.

• 42:47Dax Shepard?

  Have you ever struggled with any addiction stuff?

• 42:49Speaker 02

  No, I can't. I've tried.

• 42:51Dax Shepard?

  Given it a go, like the cigarettes?

• 42:53Speaker 02

  The cigarettes. I've tried to really commit myself to being a stoner. This is going to probably sum up my entire personality. The following sentence, I've even experimented with coffee.

• 43:03Speaker 02

  Sometimes I'm like, I'm going to be a coffee drinker and so I'll drink it four days in a row. And then I'll just start to feel queasy and fall asleep. And so maybe like my body is kind of like a lightweight. I can barely drink. I don't know why. Or I'm just really wired at a certain level that all that stuff is just not necessary.

• 43:18Dax Shepard?

  It is quite obvious to me, talking to you, how Woody Allen would have been such an appealing figure when you were young. Cause here's a guy that seems to have the outward same grab bag of anxiety and is processing it through art. And it's hysterical.

• 43:36Speaker 02

  Right.

• 43:36Dax Shepard?

  And so this is a time for a really great and weird story, which is you wrote something for Woody Allen.

• 43:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, when I was 16, I got exposed to his movies, which maybe is a little late if you're going to be somebody like me. I could have used them all on Taco.

• 43:49Dax Shepard?

  Earlier.

• 43:50Speaker 02

  Shown it at the communal TV room at the institution would have been a great help. I would have gotten all the shoelaces, but basically I was writing a lot at the time. So the first screenplay I wrote was about Woody Allen changing his name to Woody at 16 years old, which he actually did. But I said it in modern day and in my life and situation and people liked it. And it got sent around to various people and ultimately wound up at his lawyer who sent me a cease and desist letter.

• 44:13Speaker 05

  What?

• 44:14Dax Shepard?

  That's so flattering.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  Well, at the time it really was. My dad came into the room. I was living at home. I was 16. He goes, I have good news and bad news. I was like, what is it? What's going on? He's like, we heard back from Woody Allen. And I was like, there can't be any bad news after that. And he was like, it's a cease. And this is a letter from his lawyer. His lawyer, incidentally, who was his producer, I got to know, of course, the guy never knew. I'm sure it was somebody sending this letter 10 times a day to various people.

• 44:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 44:36Speaker 02

  And it's so funny that you picked up on that and what you described was exactly like that for me. It's like somebody who's outwardly nervous and paranoid about all sorts of things, but who makes life work for him.

• 44:45Dax Shepard?

  Did you hit him with that story on a first meeting? Or did you wait till you were filming for a while before you told him?

• 44:51Speaker 02

  He's just not interested in like people. Yeah, that kind of thing like, hey, you get this? Wow, a coincidence about me. He's somebody who's been so fetishized by culture. So I think he's just so uninterested in people telling him, hey, I got a brother who looks like you. I never told him ever, but I knew he wouldn't care or think about it. And then we were on a panel for press for a movie and somebody like it was a French journalist said, did Jesse ever tell you, you know, you did this thing? I looked over at him going, this is just going to be a waste of a time frame. He's not going to care. And he goes, oh, interesting. No, I never knew that. And we never talked about it again.

• 45:19Dax Shepard?

  This is exactly as you predicted.

• 45:20Speaker 02

  Exactly. He just has no interest maybe in me. I mean, one time he asked me, because he had met my parents at a play that he saw of mine. Then we worked together again. And the only personal question he ever asked me was, you still have the same parents?

• 45:31Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 45:33Speaker 02

  It was like a joke, but also indicating that there's nothing we're going to be talking about.

• 45:37Dax Shepard?

  Do you chalk up the anxiety to just baseline biochemical? Or do you think any of it is nurture?

• 45:44Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I had some weird things in my life occur. Probably a lot of it was circumstantial, but I do really have great parents. But yeah, I had some really weird stuff when I was a kid and I'm maybe wired this way. But it's weird because my parents are actually comfortable, happy, normal.

• 45:56Dax Shepard?

  Feel great in their own skin.

• 45:58Speaker 02

  So there's deep depression and paranoia in the family, but not from my parents. So, yeah, I think there was a series of weird things that happened when I was younger that probably accounted for all of my great personality problems.

• 46:08Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 46:08Speaker 01

  Well, they got you here.

• 46:09Dax Shepard?

  I don't see them as problems.

• 46:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 46:11Dax Shepard?

  I find you very interesting to watch endlessly. So keep processing in public.

• 46:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:17Speaker 02

  I think people are going to really enjoy that. Yeah.

• 46:19Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so back to now, this radical flip flopping. It's no wonder you're waiting for the shoe to always drop. So you're in a mental institution and then click of a fingers and you're on a TV show in high school.

• 46:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, so after that period, I started auditioning more for things. I went back to school. I was slowly integrating back into regular life. While still auditioning and basically desperate to get a part because it meant I got to leave. And then I auditioned for a TV show. I was mostly auditioning for like off Broadway shows, which is what I was doing. And then there was an audition for this show, Get Real on Fox, and I got the part. It was just crazy. I mean, it sounds almost maybe arrogant to say, I didn't know I was funny because I was doing off Broadway dramas like Tennessee Williams. I didn't know I was like a funny person.

• 46:57Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 46:57Speaker 02

  And then the TV show was funny and my character was funny and he was the character who was narrating the show. So it was like a kind of comic voice. And I was auditioning and the people were laughing at the audition. These are like professional people. They had big shows on. And I remember thinking like, oh, I could be funny. I was partly doing an impression of a kid I met who was really funny and wry and stuff. And so then it was like, oh, I have kind of a voice and the show was basically asking me to do my voice. It wasn't asking me like in a Tennessee Williams play, you're like, I'm doing a southern accent, but I'm a Jewish kid from New Jersey.

• 47:23Dax Shepard?

  Right, right. I'm fixing to go to the synagogue.

• 47:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, and swim at the water hole later on.

• 47:28Dax Shepard?

  I want to do a mikvah a little later in the crick.

• 47:30Speaker 02

  Exactly. Whoa, very good.

• 47:31Dax Shepard?

  Thank you.

• 47:32Speaker 02

  Oh, that's a great character. Southern religious Jew. Yeah.

• 47:36Dax Shepard?

  Tommy Schlami, the best dramatic director in television history. He's a Texas Jew.

• 47:40Speaker 02

  Oh, is he really?

• 47:41Dax Shepard?

  With the name Schlami.

• 47:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's not helpful. Does he have like an accent?

• 47:44Dax Shepard?

  No, but he's so special.

• 47:46Speaker 02

  He was the West Wing guy, right?

• 47:47Dax Shepard?

  He did West Wing. Yeah, yeah.

• 47:48Speaker 02

  I've always seen that name and wondered, why not change it?

• 47:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, he did the pilot of Parenthood and I said, just hearing that name, it's one that would make you or break you. And I see it's major. Like, he's so confident and cool.

• 47:59Speaker 02

  That's true. You live or die. Yeah. So anyways, I was on the show for a year and it kind of went under the radar and got canceled.

• 48:04Dax Shepard?

  Anne Hathaway, did she already done much of stuff?

• 48:06Speaker 02

  No, I think it was both of our first jobs.

• 48:07Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really?

• 48:08Speaker 01

  Oh, she was on it as well.

• 48:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, we played siblings and she was like, I think a year older than me.

• 48:12Dax Shepard?

  Would you be in scenes with your sister thinking you've got to table your attraction to this person because you're playing?

• 48:19Speaker 02

  I guess maybe my brain was just like, you'll never talk to that person.

• 48:21Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 48:22Speaker 01

  Not on your radar.

• 48:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, maybe. I really was not.

• 48:25Dax Shepard?

  I bet that's charming to gals. I bet over the years you've had something that would appear to be confidence because you've already just written it off as not an option. Like an aloofness.

• 48:34Speaker 02

  That's so funny.

• 48:35Dax Shepard?

  That might seem really attractive.

• 48:36Speaker 02

  My wife was my first date and she is so cool and beautiful and amazing and she was older than me. So I just went up to her like almost as a joke. I was like, would you ever go out with me? And I never said that to a person ever.

• 48:45Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow. Would you go out with me?

• 48:46Speaker 01

  Would you ever go out with me?

• 48:48Speaker 02

  It was a joke.

• 48:48Dax Shepard?

  Is she Australian?

• 48:49Speaker 02

  No, but she could be. She's so pretty. She's as pretty as an Australian is.

• 48:53Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my God.

• 48:54Speaker 01

  She could be. She's so pretty. It's what he said.

• 48:57Dax Shepard?

  You swear she was from Australia.

• 48:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 48:58Dax Shepard?

  Go look at her.

• 48:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, one look. My wife and I actually dated for like 10 years and we broke up and I did date an Australian.

• 49:05Dax Shepard?

  That's what I'm thinking.

• 49:06Speaker 02

  That was my other girlfriend.

• 49:07Dax Shepard?

  Okay, a blonde Australian.

• 49:08Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 49:09Dax Shepard?

  That's its own interesting, really, story I want to earmark. But yeah, five year break that ends a marriage is incredible and unconventional.

• 49:15Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, that's true. She was my first date. My wife wouldn't date me when I was 17. She waited until I was of age. There were like three year period where I couldn't go to a bar and she could go to a bar. I was 18, 19, 20, but I think I had the confidence to ask her out because it seemed so absurd.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  And she was like, yes, I will go out with you.

• 49:29Speaker 02

  No, she said absolutely not, no. But then she was an assistant to a producer for a few years before she started teaching. And the producer wanted to read my screenplays. I was writing screenplays a lot. And so Anna, my wife, was the intermediary. So she would have to read these things and she thought I was funny and I reminded her of her father, who was like funny Jewish.

• 49:47Dax Shepard?

  Oh, there's like Sorrento. She kind of like fell in love with your words. Is that the name of the play?

• 49:51Speaker 02

  Oh, Cyrano.

• 49:52Dax Shepard?

  Cyrano.

• 49:53Speaker 02

  Yes, Cyrano. Yes, yes. You gave it the Parmesan cheese version of Cyrano.

• 49:59Dax Shepard?

  Well, I'm always straddling the line between Philistine and know what I'm talking about. Like bullseye.

• 50:04Speaker 02

  The references are very clear, but you add a T.

• 50:08Dax Shepard?

  Or an S depending.

• 50:09Speaker 02

  That's right. So then we dated for 10 years. It was great and now we're married.

• 50:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's a good story.

• 50:13Speaker 01

  Great story.

• 50:14Dax Shepard?

  You were gonna go to NYU, but instead you did a movie and then you ended up at the New School and you dabbled in Anthro?

• 50:21Speaker 02

  I've graduated in anthropology.

• 50:22Dax Shepard?

  I have an Anthro degree.

• 50:23Speaker 02

  Wow, can I ask why?

• 50:25Dax Shepard?

  That's exactly why I was gonna ask you.

• 50:27Speaker 02

  I did because it was my wife's degree prior to me. What about you?

• 50:30Dax Shepard?

  Through my own childhood, I just always felt outcasty. I didn't feel like I agreed with the vibe that was existing around me. I thought there had to be other ways. And Anthro was like, oh, not only are there other ways, there's like very exotic, interesting other ways.

• 50:45Speaker 02

  Oh, you mean to just live?

• 50:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, culturally, realizing how flexible culture is and how many versions are out there to try begs the question, are we even close to what version we'll be ultimately living in?

• 50:57Speaker 02

  Because anthropology teaches you that cultures are not superior, inferior to each other.

• 51:01Dax Shepard?

  Cultural relativism. We just got to learn why it functions the way it does, not whether that's good or bad. I found that very liberating.

• 51:08Speaker 02

  Me too, especially because you're trying to constantly be. A good version of this society, but that in some ways it's a little randomized.

• 51:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and I'm feeling like it's unacceptable how I'd like to be doing this. Oh, there isn't a right or wrong. That's comforting.

• 51:21Speaker 02

  Yes, that's a really good point. My wife specifically, she grew up living in different places in Central America and Europe, and she just lives life totally different than anybody I know. She's an activist and she's politically minded, but she's just uninterested in like, we just had a presidential election. She's uninterested in all of the numbers of the presidential election. She just kind of feels like they're helping people in need. She just doesn't have the sense of the rat race of modern life.

• 51:44Dax Shepard?

  Is she less inclined to levy a verdict?

• 51:46Speaker 02

  She's uncynical. She's never criticized people. She's never, I mean, in 20 years with her, she's never looked over at me and rolled her eyes at something somebody said. And I'll ask her, like, wasn't that so stupid what that person said? She's like, no, I mean, they're going through a hard time.

• 51:58Dax Shepard?

  It probably makes sense within their little sphere of culture.

• 52:01Speaker 02

  Exactly. And this is the way they exist. It's okay. They have trouble making friends. Just let them say that stuff to you. It's okay.

• 52:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, a lot of compassion.

• 52:09Speaker 02

  Exactly. She's never once uttered the phrase, that was weird. And partly that's, I guess, why I was also able to ask her out. She seems very unjudgmental. She wouldn't think like, wow, no, you're ugly. She just take it at face value.

• 52:18Dax Shepard?

  And then cultural pluralism is also one of your focuses.

• 52:21Speaker 02

  Yes, that's because I graduated with a weird degree. The new school has these kind of eccentric degrees. So it was democracy and cultural pluralism, which was basically an anthropology degree.

• 52:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, interesting. And then you're doing a bunch of acting while you're at the new schools.

• 52:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would leave every other semester.

• 52:35Dax Shepard?

  And is that where Lipson was the new school?

• 52:38Speaker 02

  Oh, wow, yes.

• 52:38Dax Shepard?

  James Lipton?

• 52:39Speaker 02

  James Lipton, that's you. You're on the Sorrento side of it.

• 52:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 52:43Speaker 02

  I was never in acting classes there, but yeah, he ran.

• 52:45Dax Shepard?

  Inside the Actors Studio?

• 52:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what it was.

• 52:47Dax Shepard?

  But that was a new school presentation somehow, right?

• 52:49Speaker 02

  Exactly, it was.

• 52:50Dax Shepard?

  Did you ever go to any of those weird lectures and ask questions?

• 52:53Speaker 02

  I didn't. I knew them really more from the Will Ferrell parody of them. Do you remember those?

• 52:57Dax Shepard?

  Yes, I guess you're young enough that it had already been parodied.

• 53:00Speaker 02

  Like, it was hard to take that kind of thing seriously. And I was working with actors who were occasionally so pretentious that I was so turned off to that thing. What's the word? That you, you know, just this kind of self-important sanctimonious version of actors.

• 53:12Dax Shepard?

  I hated it too, but if I do some soul searching, I think it's probably because I thought maybe they were better than me. That I haven't studied enough.

• 53:20Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, and I could understand feeling that way.

• 53:22Speaker 01

  You have the opposite. You've been working for so long and you're on Broadway. You're like, I've really done it.

• 53:27Speaker 02

  But no, I could see it having also the effect of, oh, wow, this is the real deal. This is the way you're supposed to talk about things. To me, it just seems like self-important pretense, as though your job is like more important than any other job in the world.

• 53:36Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so you come onto my radar in The Squid and the Whale.

• 53:41Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 53:42Dax Shepard?

  Which is such an incredible movie. Is that Noah Baumbach's first directing?

• 53:46Speaker 02

  I think he had directed other movies that hadn't gotten the same amount of attention.

• 53:49Dax Shepard?

  I saw that movie and I absolutely loved it. I love Jeff Daniels like crazy. I think he's one of the most unsung. Him in Newsroom. Yeah, so I saw that and I thought you were incredible and I thought that movie was absolutely incredible. Is that Mark kind of, I already know the answer, I think, which is you don't ever feel safe, but did it feel like, okay, the right people are noticing this. I have my foot in the door firmly.

• 54:13Speaker 02

  I don't know how to describe it other than to say so briefly. It's like the kind of thing, I've been in things that are popular and been in things that are unpopular. And there's always a little period after the popular things come out where you do have, yes, I would just call it exactly what you said, a feeling of security. Oh, I know if I wanted a job in the next six months, I could definitely get one. Yeah. I don't know that it would be great or that I would love it. But I'd been involved in so many of these things where something is really liked briefly and then you go back to the same thing six months later. It's always the case.

• 54:38Speaker 01

  It's a cycle.

• 54:39Dax Shepard?

  Well, you have four years between Squid and the Whale and then Zombieland, which unless I'm mistaken, Zombieland's then the next big kind of thing.

• 54:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was like a big movie.

• 54:47Dax Shepard?

  So in those four years, where are we at mentally? Also, is there anyone you've isolated? I'm emulating that career or I would like that career. Were you thinking of what kind of actor you were aspiring to be?

• 54:59Speaker 02

  No, I mean, if anything, like I grew up really liking Ben Stiller and Adam Sandler movies, probably like every other kid on my block and every block in the world.

• 55:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 55:06Speaker 02

  I guess I saw in Ben Stiller, maybe before I noticed Woody Allen, maybe a kindred thing, like, oh, I could be in movies as a good role in movies and not have to change too much about myself. But no, I never thought like, I'm gonna do that because as actors, you know, you'd have no control over anything. And also weirdly, I was really just getting cast in dramas. Zombieland was a comedy, but all the auditions were very dramatic auditions. I was really not getting cast in those comedy things anyway. Even this movie I did right before Zombieland Adventureland was a comedy, but the director wanted to make his bittersweet coming of age story. He didn't want to make a broad comedy.

• 55:38Dax Shepard?

  Matola, right?

• 55:39Speaker 02

  Greg Matola.

• 55:40Dax Shepard?

  And that was a follow up to Superbad.

• 55:42Speaker 02

  Well, that's the thing. It really wasn't. It was like Greg's life story in the eighties and this bittersweet thing, but because. They build it is exactly what you just said. People were disappointed in it because they thought it would be really funny, like super bad. It's interesting that you asked this and I haven't thought about this in like 20 years. But what you just described was, I actually thought one thing might happen to me and that's not the thing that happened. I thought I could be in a Long King Polly or something like that. And I was just not cast in those roles.

• 56:02Dax Shepard?

  Zombie Land to me was so fucking incredible. I don't like zombie movies. I was like, who's Reuben Fleischer? This guy can fucking direct. There was a Metallica song in the movie, which there almost never is.

• 56:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're right.

• 56:15Dax Shepard?

  When you were shooting Zombie Land, did you have any sense while it was happening? Like, oh yeah, this is pretty mega. This is gonna be fucking awesome.

• 56:22Speaker 02

  That's the movie I started smoking on that I was told by the prop woman. It was a really nice person that she couldn't believe that I had transgressed so badly in her eyes. But probably what was happening in the back of my mind, I thought this thing is good and that I'm ruining it. And I would have panic attacks all the time. In fact, anytime I had to do a scene that was one of my audition scenes, I just froze up and I would start saying other lines. And then they told me, we just got Bill Murray to sign on for a day in the movie. And I walked away and had another panic attack because I was like, now people are gonna see it. And I'm so bad. And I know that Reuben wanted Michael Sarah to be in the movie. Reuben is a good friend of mine, so I could say this comfortably, has no filter. And didn't realize that him telling me that he wanted Michael Sarah to be in it would make me feel uncomfortable.

• 57:05Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 57:05Speaker 02

  And also didn't realize that sending me videos of Michael Sarah while we were

• 57:10Speaker 01

  No!

• 57:10Speaker 02

  Shooting at night, so I'd be on my computer.

• 57:13Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 57:14Speaker 02

  And an email with the subject line, Michael Sarah Funny Video would be sent to all the cast.

• 57:18Speaker 01

  This is cruel.

• 57:19Dax Shepard?

  He was kind of obsessed with Michael Sarah.

• 57:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, he was obsessed with Michael Sarah. I'm sure who turned down the movie. I'm sure that's why I got to audition for it in the first place. And so every day I was just thinking, oh, of course he wanted Michael Sarah. And I could read the part with Michael's voice in the part way more than I could read it with my own voice. So I just felt like I was every day letting down the movie. And this was just like a failure because of me. And then I just started having these weird fantasies. Of course, I'm gonna go home to visit my wife on a weekend and Michael's gonna be there in bed with her. Like, hey, too late, buddy.

• 57:47Speaker 02

  And I've since met him. It's funny that he's like the nicest person.

• 57:49Dax Shepard?

  He's impossible to dislike.

• 57:51Speaker 02

  But just at the time, I was getting recognized on the street as him all the time, to the point where when I said to the people, no, I'm a different person. They was like, ah, fuck you, you're him. It was a weird thing.

• 58:00Dax Shepard?

  I think it's more common to have that than not, because mine was Zach Braff, the whole early ride.

• 58:04Speaker 02

  Thank you for saying that. It is more common than not.

• 58:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 58:06Speaker 02

  Every time I talk to an actor, it's always, oh yeah, mine is this person. And I was this for Michael, too.

• 58:11Dax Shepard?

  And it takes a while to get comfortable with it. Now, and I've talked to Zach about it as well. It's like, I'm happy to pose in a picture and you think it's Zach, and that's great. I don't need to correct anyone. You were great in Garden State. Thank you.

• 58:22Speaker 02

  I've signed a hot rod. This is an Andy Samberg headshot.

• 58:24Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 58:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 58:28Speaker 01

  But that's the part that you don't think in the moment that it's happening to him. Everyone thinks I'm Michael Cera, and everyone thinks he's Jesse Eisenberg.

• 58:35Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 58:35Speaker 01

  You forget that piece.

• 58:36Speaker 02

  And he had, I think, told a story publicly about getting recognized at me at a bar or something. And I remember thinking like,

• 58:42Speaker 01

  That was a fluke.

• 58:43Speaker 02

  Exactly. Whereas for me, I mean, literally, I got cornered in an ATM by somebody aggressive saying like, yes, you are, yes, you are. And I was like, okay, fine, fine. I'm fine. I am. I am. And it was just like the weirdest existential crisis to be stuck in this vestibule going, I am the other person. I am the other person. Let's take a picture. One time, my sister's friend said, you look like the guy in that movie. I mean, you're obviously like a better looking version of him, but like, you look like him. And I remember thinking, oh, that's so interesting. So the objective opinion is that I'm ugly, to the point where she apologized for making that comparison.

• 59:13Dax Shepard?

  Jesse, that happened to me while I was presenting on stage with this singer. We're midway through one of these award shows, like, this season's blah, blah, blah. And she just looks at me and she goes, you're so much better looking in real life. And I was really delighted and also like, but hold on now, she thinks I'm rough.

• 59:29Speaker 02

  Like that, that's the objective truth.

• 59:32Dax Shepard?

  As opposed to what she thought before, which is why is this guy in movies, which I would have related to her on.

• 59:37Speaker 02

  Right, of course.

• 59:38Dax Shepard?

  We could have talked all day about that.

• 59:39Speaker 02

  I was surprised that my sister's friend even complimented me in the moment.

• 59:43Dax Shepard?

  Okay, now the social network comes along. I guess I just want to know a little bit about how you came to be in that movie. And what's it like? Do you go meet Fincher first? Do you audition? Was it written with you in mind? How's all that work?

• 59:56Speaker 02

  I remember I was sent like three scripts that same day and two things were bad, but I auditioned for those two. You know, it's like the nature of being an actor. You just get the parts you get. And I remember that script was, oh, my God, this is a great thing to read. And then I just made a tape on my couch in New York and then they gave me the part.

• 1:00:11Dax Shepard?

  And you got the part on the self submission.

• 1:00:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was like a whole thing. It felt like it was like being sent to the CIA because my agent called and they were like, they liked your tape and they're going to watch it again. I was like, okay.

• 1:00:21Speaker 01

  Thanks for the update.

• 1:00:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. They called me out to California and then I met with him for an hour. And David Fincher speaks in a very interesting way. I was there just waiting for him to say, you got in the movie or you didn't get in the movie. But it was instead, he was like just telling stories about old Hollywood. And I didn't know what they meant for me because you're sitting there like a 27 year old actor. Like, did I get the job?

• 1:00:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they called me later and said, yeah, yeah, you got the part. So it was a weird thing. You know, it's so strange. Like I've auditioned for things that I haven't gotten into. And you audition for them like 10 times and then they meet you. You read with this person and then read with that person. And then they'll straighten my hair and make me read again. This happens to me a few times. Straighten my hair so I can see what I look like as a Gentile. And then you don't get those parts. And then a thing like this comes along and it was just, I made a tape at home with my little sister and they cast me.

• 1:01:03Dax Shepard?

  Wow. Did the repeated takes? Oh, let me ask you this. Are you prone to insecurity on set? It sounds like you were having a lot of insecurity on Zombie Land.

• 1:01:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, this I didn't. I felt like I was just in the shoes of this person. The anxiety in Zombie Land was really, I'm an interloper here. They tried to cast somebody else who's definitely funnier than me. I still think definitely funnier than me. And he didn't want to do it and everybody's disappointed that I show up every day. The social network, it just felt like I was prepared for it in a different way. The character was so interesting and socially aloof and cryptic and angry. And this is my comfort zone.

• 1:01:35Dax Shepard?

  And is having this Sorkin dialogue put you immediately halfway there?

• 1:01:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's so helpful because you know, the scene's going to be good either way. You didn't feel like you had to do some heavy lifting. So it felt like, oh, I could just play in my character.

• 1:01:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so often it's not on the page, the thing that we all know every Everyone's trying to get that day.

• 1:01:54Speaker 02

  Exactly. It requires the actors to do some work that they shouldn't be doing. For example, like making certain emotional transitions seem logical when actually they're not in the script. I mean, if you're working with great scripts like that, a great director, my experience was, oh, it's easy to be good in this. You get a bunch of takes, the script is amazing, you can't fail.

• 1:02:10Speaker 01

  A no brainer.

• 1:02:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, kind of like that.

• 1:02:12Dax Shepard?

  And you famously had no experience on Facebook. You joined for 30 seconds or something.

• 1:02:17Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly. Yeah, I joined for 30 seconds to see what it was about.

• 1:02:20Dax Shepard?

  I joined for like 12 days once and I looked at everyone I went to junior high with. And when that was over, I was like, I don't know why I'm on here anymore.

• 1:02:27Speaker 02

  The thing you just described is the exact reason I'd be curious. I'm so curious to see what people look like. Just like, what do people grow into? It's so fascinating to think about.

• 1:02:34Dax Shepard?

  Well, my conclusion was everyone I looked at, I'm like, oh, they're old. Oh, they got families. You can only do that so long before you go, then clearly I am too, because we're all the same age. Whatever I am looking at them with, I have to acknowledge is happening for me too.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  I love that movie. I rewatched it recently. It's still so great.

• 1:02:50Dax Shepard?

  You did just rewatch it, didn't you?

• 1:02:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was obsessed with it. I would just watch it over and over again for a while.

• 1:02:56Dax Shepard?

  It was one of your movies.

• 1:02:57Speaker 01

  I have a handful of movies that I end up just watching every night.

• 1:02:59Dax Shepard?

  Contagion.

• 1:03:01Speaker 01

  During the pandemic, contagion.

• 1:03:03Speaker 02

  I still haven't seen that. Is it great?

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  It's so good.

• 1:03:05Speaker 02

  I'm still curious.

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  It's such a good movie.

• 1:03:07Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:03:07Speaker 01

  Devil Wears Prada, Social Network.

• 1:03:10Dax Shepard?

  Seven, we love seven. Venture's got two on the list for Monica.

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. Good Will Hunting is my number one. That was the original.

• 1:03:16Speaker 02

  Is it the kind of thing you could say every line to?

• 1:03:18Speaker 01

  I wouldn't want to be put to the test right now because it's been a minute, but at one point I could recite the whole movie.

• 1:03:24Dax Shepard?

  She would sit in class and watch the movie.

• 1:03:26Speaker 01

  In my head. I would watch it and then rewind it and watch it again.

• 1:03:29Speaker 02

  Were you in class at MIT?

• 1:03:30Speaker 01

  I wish. No, because I was too busy watching movies in my head. But Social Network is so good. You're so good in it. Everyone's so good in it.

• 1:03:38Speaker 02

  Well, thank you.

• 1:03:39Dax Shepard?

  You already had your taste of it all with Zombieland, but that's an enormous moment. You get nominated for a BAFTA and a Golden Globe and Academy Award. That prick Colin Firth had done King's Speech, so no one had a chance somehow. Yeah, what was that whirlwind like? Hard, fun?

• 1:03:54Speaker 02

  Weird and exhausting. And when I would complain to my dad, my dad would just always say the same thing. It was like, if you have one of these in your life, if you're like in the arts, be so happy. Why are you complaining? And Obama was president at the time and I was like, I have to go to a weird dinner. My dad was like, you know, the president of the United States probably has 17 things a day that he has to do that are not the thing he likes doing. You should be just so grateful that somebody's giving you free dinner and everything. And I remember I was thinking, oh, I shouldn't go to the Academy Awards because awards are stupid. My dad called me and he was like, are you an idiot? This industry has given you so much. Of course, go to these things.

• 1:04:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:27Speaker 02

  These award shows are basically ways for the industry to celebrate itself and to promote itself. So just go there and be grateful. Now I'm a little more grateful about things rather than trying to resist.

• 1:04:35Dax Shepard?

  Well, just you know, you're gonna feel uncomfortable in all these places you go.

• 1:04:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, but also I think in a bubble, they're strange why they pit artists against each other. This kind of teenage poetry thought you grow out of that stuff.

• 1:04:45Dax Shepard?

  And isn't it all a lie too?

• 1:04:47Speaker 02

  Which part?

• 1:04:47Dax Shepard?

  The story about why you're not drawn to it. If I were you, I'd be like, I don't belong there. Those people belong there. That's the real feeling in my heart that I might not want to look at.

• 1:04:56Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:04:57Dax Shepard?

  So I build on top of it, a very defendable reason why.

• 1:05:00Speaker 02

  Artistic. Which is that awards are bullshit.

• 1:05:01Dax Shepard?

  Pitting artists and all this stuff, the brain quickly fills in a plausible excuse that doesn't require you to own your fear or your vulnerability.

• 1:05:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, that's so intuitive. I even call my mom sometimes or my wife, what's the difference?

• 1:05:16Speaker 02

  One of those two people tells me, last time you had a good time and you've met a friend of yours there and you were funny.

• 1:05:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And you actually leave going like, no, I actually belong in this group of people, which I keep convincing myself.

• 1:05:26Speaker 02

  I should be there alone.

• 1:05:27Dax Shepard?

  I don't know why they invited DiCaprio.

• 1:05:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:29Dax Shepard?

  He's a great actor, but he's not as fun as me at a party.

• 1:05:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's a charm missing. It's that X factor.

• 1:05:36Dax Shepard?

  So how was hosting SNL in the wake of that?

• 1:05:38Speaker 02

  That was so funny. It was like the exact same thing you're describing. I had turned it down 10 times because I did not want to be somebody who had hosted Saturday Night Live. I just felt so embarrassed. I was like, I'm gonna be a person who did it and who would never be asked back. So I was just like, I don't want to have done it. It feels so embarrassing. And then I did the exact same thing that you just said. So instead I justified it by like, no, no, no, because I want people to know me as an actor, not as caricature stuff. So I don't want to do it. So that's why I justified it. And then I was really pressured to do it. And I was a fan of the show, obviously. I mean, everybody is.

• 1:06:03Dax Shepard?

  And it's an insanely unique experience to have on planet Earth for a week.

• 1:06:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, in fact, I don't even really remember lots of it. When you're doing the show, you're being dragged around by the sweet woman Donna, who's changing your class tune. You literally have no autonomy. You're being just taken around to various things and the hours are weird.

• 1:06:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you're kind of in a fever dream the whole week and then it ends, right? And you try to process it afterwards.

• 1:06:21Speaker 02

  That's exactly it. Yeah.

• 1:06:26Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 1:06:33Dax Shepard?

  We are supported by Walden University. You know that feeling when you've been thinking about making a move, going after the degree, the promotion, the thing you keep telling yourself you'll get to someday? Walden University is built for that moment. For over 50 years, Walden has helped working professionals get the W, the knowledge, the skills, and the confidence to create real change in their careers and communities. Their programs are designed around your life, not the other way around. With Tempo Learning, available in select programs, there are no rigid schedules or set weekly deadlines. You move at your own pace. And Walden's faculty aren't just academics. They're practitioners who bring real-world experience into everything

• 1:07:15Dax Shepard?

  they teach. From your first class to career coaching and beyond, Walden is your partner the whole way. Take the first step and learn at a pace that works for you. Visit waldenu.edu. Walden University. Set a course for change. Certified to operate by CHEV.

• 1:07:40Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I did want to mention one thing because it seems relevant for a real pain, which is, Emma Stone, of course, was in Zombie Land. Is that the first time you meet her?

• 1:07:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:48Dax Shepard?

  You guys become pals, obviously, because she's a producer on both the movies you directed.

• 1:07:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:07:53Dax Shepard?

  I think she is so talented. I think she's so sparkly, and I thought, poor thing, she was off-the-charts great in. I find her to be a real unicorn. I'm very intrigued by her.

• 1:08:06Speaker 02

  Oh, she's a total unicorn. I mean, she's funnier than almost anybody I've ever met, and great dramatic actress. And I will say, knowing her now as a producer, she's so savvy within the film industry. We're like on marketing calls with the studio, and there's people who've been doing that job for 20 years, and they're all amazing. But she just holds court, and we're all just sitting there taking notes. And she's somebody who's never marketed a movie. She's just so savvy at every aspect, from giving me a note on my script, to then marketing, to production, everything. It's hard to describe what the thing is, because I haven't seen It in somebody else. It's hard to articulate it. She just seems always right is what it feels like. She everything she says to me is always, oh yeah, that seems better than what I was thinking.

• 1:08:41Dax Shepard?

  You're right. There's a hyper intelligence too. I should have listed that in the mix.

• 1:08:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:45Dax Shepard?

  But so often you go on a movie and you really bond with somebody, but then there's no legs to it afterwards. You both go to different sides of the planet and do another movie for three months. How did you guys end up maintaining that friendship? It just broke through that?

• 1:08:59Speaker 02

  I think everybody who meets her has that same feeling and I think everybody who meets her feels like they have that bond.

• 1:09:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:05Speaker 02

  And I was very, very aware of that when we were working together. I was like, I'm her best friend, but also I think probably everybody feels that way. It's because she's so genuine. You have the sense in her presence like, oh, this is my new best friend. Wow.

• 1:09:16Dax Shepard?

  My hunch is she makes you feel incredibly comfortable to talk to.

• 1:09:20Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly.

• 1:09:21Dax Shepard?

  And so for a lot of people, she's the most comfortable person they get to talk to. And so they are in the level of intimacy that they can feel comfortable sharing.

• 1:09:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's exactly it. They feel in her presence like this is the most comfortable I've been.

• 1:09:34Dax Shepard?

  Cause I could also see you convincing yourself to not stay in touch with her.

• 1:09:37Speaker 02

  Oh no, I did. I basically, I didn't reach out.

• 1:09:38Dax Shepard?

  That's my hunch is that she probably pursued you as a friend.

• 1:09:40Speaker 02

  She did. I only say this because I didn't want to bother her because I think of her as on another planet. She's also a very busy person.

• 1:09:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:46Speaker 02

  But she would send me text messages like I had put out a book the next year. She'd send me text messages of lines in the book. She would come to all the plays I wrote. She was just very supportive. I think what it is, is that she's like a comedy nerd. And so I was writing comedy essays. She would send me a picture of one of my short stories or something and she would say, this is my whole life. And she's genuine.

• 1:10:05Dax Shepard?

  Beams give me hiccups?

• 1:10:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, Bream gives me hiccups. It's a collection of short stories that I published in there and elsewhere. And she would just send me pages from it and no one was doing that to me. It's so sweet and flattering. I think she's just like a comedy nerd in addition to being also like a goddess. And so I think that's what it was. So she became interested in the stuff I was writing and so she would always be the only one who would read my stuff. I mean, more than any other friend.

• 1:10:25Dax Shepard?

  Yes, he believes in you creatively.

• 1:10:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. And so she got my first movie script and she was thinking of starting a production company and she asked if she can produce this as her first movie.

• 1:10:33Dax Shepard?

  Wow. That is when you finished Saving the World.

• 1:10:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:10:37Dax Shepard?

  Okay, you do the Now You See Me's. Those are huge hits. John's a friend of ours for part two. John Chu.

• 1:10:43Speaker 02

  Oh, really?

• 1:10:44Dax Shepard?

  You gotta see. Wicked. He fucking slayed it.

• 1:10:46Speaker 02

  I can't wait to see it.

• 1:10:47Dax Shepard?

  It's insane. Okay. It makes a ton of sense. You've written a bunch of plays that have been produced. You've been writing forever and you're acting. So obviously directing is not a big leap. But for you, did it feel like a big declaration?

• 1:10:57Speaker 02

  Not really. I just was feeling like I wasn't getting good movie parts for a while. I was always writing plays because I was doing movies that I really liked.

• 1:11:04Dax Shepard?

  You were living also in a subset of Hollywood that got largely diminished. You were in a lot of 20 to 60 million dollar movies, quirky comedies, those went away. The actual sweet spot you were living in is only just deflated over the last 10 years. Because that's TV now.

• 1:11:24Speaker 02

  That is so interesting. God, I just blamed myself.

• 1:11:27Dax Shepard?

  But I'm sure you're at home going like, yeah, no one likes me anymore. Forget the fact that they haven't made a $35 million dramedy in eight years.

• 1:11:34Speaker 02

  You know, it literally never crossed my mind.

• 1:11:38Speaker 02

  But so I had this happy thing where I was acting in movies I really liked, which you're saying went away. I guess that's true.

• 1:11:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:42Speaker 02

  And then I was doing plays and it felt great. And then it had been a few years since I'd been in a movie that people really like. So I just thought I have to take the thing I've been doing in theater and just move it to movies where I can kind of take control of it a little more. I had written a book for Audible and instead of turning it into a play, which I was going to do, I turned it into a screenplay. Cause I just thought then I could just get in movies and truthfully it was helpful. Like I was working with A24, produced it and it was basically like, I'm in with the cool kids again in the movies. And I engineered it myself and now I acted in my second movie. So now it even helps me as an actor. But it was kind of like, I guess, taking a back door back to the table that I felt I wasn't sitting at anymore.

• 1:12:18Dax Shepard?

  Right. And had you convinced yourself that the ride was over even to the degree where you were trying to transition into gratitude for having been at the party?

• 1:12:26Speaker 02

  That's funny. You're talking about the memoir phase of the career.

• 1:12:30Dax Shepard?

  Like the processing of the experience.

• 1:12:32Speaker 02

  Exactly. Now you're opening the car dealership based on the sitcom that you were in.

• 1:12:36Dax Shepard?

  Mine is I'm doing Ace True Value hardware commercials regionally in Michigan. And I go, no, you didn't get punked. We do have garden hoses on sale.

• 1:12:43Speaker 02

  Exactly. Now watch out for those zombies with this new rake. Now you see these cars, now you don't. Yes, God, where was I? All now I could think of. Where are we?

• 1:12:53Dax Shepard?

  Directing.

• 1:12:54Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Oh, this is what I was gonna say. Basically, you joke that I was in the gratitude phase. I was not in the gratitude phase. I moved to Indiana. I was in the, I moved to Indiana phase.

• 1:13:02Dax Shepard?

  Bloomington, Indiana?

• 1:13:03Speaker 02

  I moved to Bloomington.

• 1:13:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, what is that?

• 1:13:05Speaker 02

  Bloomington is a city. And cities are groups of people. And you know this from your anthropology, that those people can be different. But basically, my wife grew up there.

• 1:13:13Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:13:13Speaker 02

  My mother-in-law tragically got sick and she was running a domestic violence shelter there. And we went to help out with the shelter and to take care of her. And in terms of professional stuff, because that's kind of what we're talking about, it was like just a total two feet out the door of this thing. You know, it's a weird industry. It feels so unstable. And you feel like, oh, the thing's gonna spit me out tomorrow. Being in Indiana, I was just around none of it, which was great. Paradoxically, it was weird because I was the only actor there. And so people were like, hey, are you still acting?

• 1:13:37Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 1:13:38Speaker 02

  Which is not a question you want to be asked.

• 1:13:39Speaker 01

  What year was this?

• 1:13:40Speaker 02

  This was probably 2016, 17, 18, 19.

• 1:13:43Speaker 01

  Pre-pandemic.

• 1:13:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, and then in the pandemic, we were there all the time. We moved to Indiana.

• 1:13:47Dax Shepard?

  You laugh, basically.

• 1:13:48Speaker 02

  Exactly. And it was a relief. But you're running away from something, too. I was running away from not feeling like I'm pounding the pavement in New York. Also, I was in this Batman movie, and the Batman movie was so poorly received, and I was so poorly received. I've never said this before, and it's kind of embarrassing to admit, but I genuinely think it actually hurt my career in a real way. Because I was poorly received in something so public. I've been in poorly received things that just don't see the light of day. For the most part, no one knows. But this was so public, and I don't read notices or reviews or movie press or anything, so I was unaware of how poorly it was received.

• 1:14:20Speaker 01

  But I don't even know what you're talking about. And that's another fallacy.

• 1:14:23Dax Shepard?

  Another reality.

• 1:14:24Speaker 01

  This is another thing that we think.

• 1:14:25Dax Shepard?

  I didn't know that either until I was reading about you today.

• 1:14:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, we think everybody knows. Like, I'm sure you think we know what you're talking about, the movie, and then you were poorly, like, I didn't know that until you just said it.

• 1:14:35Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, but in the industry, if you're in a huge, huge movie and not seen as good, the people who are choosing who to put next in their movie are just not gonna select you.

• 1:14:43Speaker 01

  Pick you.

• 1:14:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're just like associated with something. I loved my role, and I loved the movie doing it and everything. So I feel just myself to blame. I'm not like, they did me wrong. No, I'm like, oh, I guess I did something wrong there. And so it did feel like I had to climb out again.

• 1:14:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but you were really depressed after. After that.

• 1:14:57Speaker 02

  It was depressing, but I'm depressed all the time. In some ways, just like, oh yeah, of course I had this great opportunity. Of course it didn't go well. Just pessimism.

• 1:15:03Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great. So here's this other great irony, which is constant fear of the future. But when terrible shit's happening to me, I'm kind of good in terrible shit.

• 1:15:11Speaker 02

  I'm fine.

• 1:15:11Dax Shepard?

  Which begs the question, why am I so afraid of the future? Because every time I'm in the shitty thing, I do just fine.

• 1:15:16Speaker 02

  Oh, no, it's exactly what I expect. My main trouble comes when a good thing is happening, because I think now is the really bad thing. And it's that anticipation that's really troubling.

• 1:15:24Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:15:25Speaker 02

  My mother in law was very sick. And while we were taking care of her, such a self centered way to view something. But I remember I just had never anxiety because I'd never had a thought about myself. It made me feel so good to be able to help somebody who needed it. During the pandemic, there was no work, obviously couldn't go to set. So I was working in this domestic violence shelter. I was just volunteering and I'd never been happier in my life. It was just getting outside of yourself.

• 1:15:45Dax Shepard?

  Now, I heard you talk about directing. I thought this was a cool thing to acknowledge. Because I say this kind of publicly, this is a wild business. The most creative person isn't the best director. You have to also lead 120 people in a direction. That's its own skill set. And it's almost bears no relation to the other part of the job.

• 1:16:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. It's like your general manager of a store.

• 1:16:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's very interesting. You think, oh, if you're creative, you're a writer and you're in your room by yourself. And if you're a good enough writer, eventually they'll go, do you want to direct? You're like, well, I sit in a room by myself. This is going to be a different experience altogether. I liked hearing how you, A, owned that, like, I'm not the kind of guy that's can be shouting on set, we're losing the light. But you found your own way through it. What is it that you landed on that made you comfortable in that role?

• 1:16:31Speaker 02

  Oh, that's so nice to ask. The directors I've loved working with are not those people either. They're people like me. And they are great because they're real people who so appreciate everybody who's on that set. They appreciate the actors who are exposing themselves, discounting their own vanity, even though their face is going to be blown up to a million feet. And I just walk in so lucky and happy that this production designer, this cinematographer, this art director is here working. They're far more talented at their job than I am at my job. This is my first or second movie. This is their 100th. These actors, same kind of thing. So I just feel really lucky. And the two movies I've made are very specific. To my voice. And so I'm very confident in the creative part of it. I know where I'm not confident in, and I'm so happy that I have people working with me who are.

• 1:17:15Speaker 02

  When I think about it that way, it's pretty easy. My new movie I'm acting in as well, and I never had a chance, for example, to watch the playback of me in the scene. I never had an opportunity. We were moving too quickly for me to go and put my headphones on and watch me act. It was basically I could either do that or do another take. It would take same amount of time. So I'd just do another take. I was too busy to second guess myself or my hair. I just finished doing Now You See Me 3, and it's an ensemble movie. And the part doesn't require me to like dig deep and get still. I was so nervous all the time. This is my shot on this movie, and this is the important scene in this movie. When I'm doing my own thing, I just don't have that. There's no buildup.

• 1:17:48Dax Shepard?

  I think I'm best in the things I've directed because, yeah, I'm so distracted by the much bigger issue at hand.

• 1:17:54Speaker 02

  So you're unselfconscious?

• 1:17:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, there's no time for it. I gotta get these lines out I wrote. That's my job.

• 1:17:59Speaker 02

  But what does it tell you then about the nervousness from the other thing? Does it tell you that's just fantastical stuff that you're creating to fill your mind?

• 1:18:06Dax Shepard?

  It gives me an example that I can do the same job without all the bullshit. I don't have to be fearful, right? And I don't have to be nervous. It's almost like immersion therapy for you or I, where you get results and then you have to acknowledge, oh, I didn't need all that rack yet.

• 1:18:20Speaker 02

  I just find there's so much waiting in movies. You fill your head with crazy stuff. Again, I just finished this movie, Reuben Fleischer actually directed. It was a big movie and you could not go wrong in this movie. It's Now You See Me 3. And yet you spend the six hours in your trailer waiting to do the thing. And so by the time you get to do the thing, and the line is basically just like, I got him right here. Something like that. And so you're in the trailer and you're like, I got him right here. I got him right here because you're thinking this requires so much because I'm here in this trailer.

• 1:18:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, it must require so much if there's all this crap around and all these people around me.

• 1:18:52Speaker 02

  Exactly. So then you overinflate the importance and then you screw yourself up a little bit. Cause it actually is better if you don't think about it.

• 1:18:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:59Dax Shepard?

  Well, I watched A Real Pain last night and I really, really enjoyed it. And in fact, I was watching it, my 11 year old, who was just trying to get out of going to bed, which is a great technique. She kind of joined me. She was laying on the floor watching with me and she goes, this movie's hard to watch, but I really like it. And I'm like, yeah, that's like a whole genre of movies, huh? We take for granted, all three of us grew up watching certain kinds of movies. And now kids grew up watching like kids movies or tent pole movies. This whole strata.

• 1:19:26Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:19:27Dax Shepard?

  Right of like an emotionally taxing, talk heavy. It's not in the marketplace. It was cool. This is uncomfortable. You can feel what these guys are going through and that in itself is very intriguing and pleasurable to consume.

• 1:19:41Speaker 02

  But what you're saying is that's unique. My finger's off the post.

• 1:19:44Dax Shepard?

  If you're 11, look, we took them to the mall Friday night because I found out there's a Dairy Queen in the Burbank Mall. Once we got there, it was, oh, we've never been to the mall with the kids. They think this is spectacular. We're in Macy's, they're on every bed, every couch, every chair. And I'm like, oh, right. This was my entire childhood, going to the mall.

• 1:20:02Speaker 02

  They never been there just because mall culture is not the same thing?

• 1:20:04Dax Shepard?

  Well, we don't shop at the mall. We shop online. And this particular mall, the Burbank Mall, shout out, it's a time warp. It's the eighties. It's the same terrible things at the food court. It was just one of these dumb things where I was like, oh, right. I spent every weekend of my life at a mall. This is their first time to a mall at 11 years old. In that way, this movie was weirdly refreshing because this movie could have been.

• 1:20:25Speaker 02

  Mall of movies.

• 1:20:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Could have been. What director do I want to say? Not Hal Ashby, but there's a seventies vibe to this movie.

• 1:20:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's character based, you know, walk and talk, characters that you don't necessarily fall in love with right away.

• 1:20:39Dax Shepard?

  Every scene you set up for, you probably were going to get through four or five pages of dialogue.

• 1:20:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. Wait, did your kid not find Kieran to be really funny? Cause Kieran's antics are funny in the movie.

• 1:20:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, she liked Karen, but Karen is also making everyone very, very uncomfortable around him.

• 1:20:52Speaker 01

  Unpredictable.

• 1:20:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's unpredictable.

• 1:20:54Dax Shepard?

  All right. So let's set up the movie and then I want to hear your own history and going into it. The thing I want to applaud the most is just as a writer, it's such a different story by the conceit of it. So you and your cousin, who are very closest kids, who are separated in adulthood, geographically and socioeconomically and all these things. You shared a grandma, she lived in Poland, World War II, and she died and she left you guys money to go visit where she's from and you guys join a tour.

• 1:21:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:22Dax Shepard?

  With a really fun group of different people with different reasons to be on the tour. And now we're just on this tour through Poland and it's a Holocaust tour. And there's these cousins trying to come to terms with how different their lives have turned out. I'm sure the implicit guilt in your character's mind. And he's Kieran, so he's the dude from Succession. He's impossibly charismatic, can get away with saying anything. And it's really fun to watch. What's your, oh, I know you have some similar bit of history with Poland and your aunt.

• 1:21:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, the house that the guys go to at the end is my family's house.

• 1:21:54Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really?

• 1:21:55Speaker 02

  And my wife and I went to all these cities in 2008 when we were just traveling through Poland. So I knew these places quite well. And then my Aunt Doris was born and raised in that house. My cousin Maria survived the war through a series of miracles, as we say in the movie. So it was kind of like a combination of these two people. And then I'd been on some of these tours, not in Poland, but the first time my wife and I went away together was to Venezuela. She's like an interested person in the world. She took me when I was 18 to Venezuela and we went on this tour. And it was so funny because you're with these other Americans or British people, whatever. It's an English speaking tour and you're not having any local experiences. You're in another place, but you're kind of in this bubble. I thought it was so kind of funny and ironic. So I wanted to kind of present that world. Also would be, I thought, really interesting to just have it set unlike a Holocaust tour.

• 1:22:37Speaker 02

  So basically the kind of humor of the movie and of the characters can just be offset and against the backdrop of something quite big.

• 1:22:44Dax Shepard?

  Where do you get that relationship?

• 1:22:45Speaker 02

  I've written about characters like these for a while. Kieran's character is Benji. I played a character named Ben in a play called The Spoils, which was about a similar kind of character. I'm fascinated by people like that. So if you haven't seen the movie, the character that Kieran plays is this incredibly charming, charismatic, live wire, firecracker, but can also be very manipulative, antagonistic, intimidating, but also lovable. And then also ultimately very broken, something that's very disturbed.

• 1:23:10Dax Shepard?

  For lack of better verbiage, he seems kind of bipolar. You don't know what you're going to get on what day. Is he going to be really high in ramping up everyone else around him? Or is he going to be in the pits and drag everyone down with him?

• 1:23:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. And I guess I've found people like that just to be initially very enviable. Like I wish I had that kind of outward charm. I wish I could say what was on my mind. I wish I felt Comfortable enough in my own skin to even say, hey, I'm feeling really bad now. He gives people the greatest moment in their lives, but he also, when he's not feeling good, he decides he has to turn everybody's world sour. I always thought that's like the version of me that I don't present.

• 1:23:44Dax Shepard?

  Well, that's what I was gonna ask. They're two different characters. But are they you? I mean, are they, you're a superego and you're it?

• 1:23:50Speaker 02

  You're the first person to put it in those Freudian terms, but that's what it is. So Kieran's like the it. My character is David. Everything David is feeling and all the things that are coursing through his unconscious come to life and that's Kieran's character. And there's something unsustainable about Kieran's character. So that's why there's a kind of broken, bittersweet quality to him because he doesn't have a sustainable life. He can't keep jobs or friends or girlfriends. You meet him in the beginning at the airport and you leave him at the end at the airport. He's a person who kind of exists in this transient liminal space, just a purgatory of his own troubles.

• 1:24:21Dax Shepard?

  There's also all this great exploration of what the third generation Jewish experience is. But it brings up different things that you could potentially be dealing with, with that family history that's shared by so many. One of them I found was fascinating, I had never really considered was in your great moment of frustration with your cousin, you say the notion that he's living in the basement of his parents' home, knowing what his own grandmother went through and survived is like somehow this cosmic disappointment.

• 1:24:54Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:24:55Dax Shepard?

  It never occurred to me that people would feel that way, but of course they probably would. That might be an actual thought people have who feel like they're underachieving.

• 1:25:05Speaker 02

  Which of course would just bring them down even further. There's like a quote in every culture that has the following thing. Japanese culture, it's like rice patties to rice patties in three generations. There's another quote, which is like first generation builds the house, second generation lives in the house, third generation burns it down. Italian is like shirt sleeves to shirt sleeves in three generations. And I say it in the movie, the first generation does some menial job, they work themselves up into the middle class. Second generation maybe moves themselves up a little further and the third generation burns the house down. And I think that third generation, if I were to analyze it maybe on a mass level, I would say something along the lines of there is a guilt that their lives are comfortable and they're lacking meaning that the first generation had.

• 1:25:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you inherit. It's more than the immigrant story. It's the survivor immigrant story. And yeah, I think about my own self-flagellation. And if I could add in there that my Papa Bob, he was orphaned. He adopted all of his younger brothers and sisters and supported them. I think what that man went through, then I'm like, yeah, I didn't get X movie to Y actor.

• 1:26:01Speaker 02

  Isn't that weird?

• 1:26:01Dax Shepard?

  What a shameful place I'm occupying in my head right now.

• 1:26:05Speaker 02

  Exactly what the movie is talking about. I don't know how to reconcile it. I've written four plays about this exact idea because all my plays are about usually an American's, modern American creation, like what you're just describing, in touch with somebody whose life is somehow just more fraught. The play that I like the most is called The Spoils. And my character is like Kieran's character and his roommate is a Nepalese immigrant who's based on my friend. We both met at NYU, but my roommate is getting a business degree and I think business degrees are ridiculous because capitalism is bullshit. And he's like an upwardly mobile immigrant. And it's just this clash of cultures. And so my life is just completely stifled because everything seems like bullshit because I have the comfort to have that.

• 1:26:39Speaker 01

  It's a luxury. Yeah.

• 1:26:41Speaker 02

  Exactly. You get self-hating. And then if you're telling yourself the story of, God, I can't believe my grandfather, what you just told me now, and you're worried about your role, it just adds to the self-hating cycle.

• 1:26:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, just all more fuel. And then again, the story he's telling, like, yeah, just an outward rejection of all wealth because he doesn't have it. Also, these stories that he's telling himself, Kieran.

• 1:27:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rich people are fucking idiots.

• 1:27:03Dax Shepard?

  Which helps dissipate some of the shame.

• 1:27:05Speaker 02

  It's the thing you said earlier about not going to the award show and then creating a thing in your head. Yeah, because award shows are bullshit, you know?

• 1:27:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:27:12Speaker 02

  You have to, if your life is not working out in certain areas, the quicker thing to do is not try to fix it or blame yourself or try to fix yourself. The quicker thing to do is create some really well-reasoned, logical sounding argument of why the thing that you didn't get is bullshit.

• 1:27:26Dax Shepard?

  Yes. And why the thing you're doing is the natural and right thing to be doing.

• 1:27:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:30Speaker 01

  I say this a lot about our current hatred of billionaires. I don't have that hatred. I'm like, poor people don't hate billionaires. It's a certain class of people that is actually pretty privileged, that has the luxury of saying, that's bad and capitalism is bad and XYZ is bad. It's like, if you're actually disenfranchised, you don't think that.

• 1:27:52Speaker 02

  Oh, that's so interesting.

• 1:27:53Speaker 01

  It's a weird cycle that happens with privilege where you start picking apart the way to get.

• 1:27:58Dax Shepard?

  I think this is some of the great angst with economically disenfranchised people is they're hearing rich people talk about that they should care about the planet, right? And they're like, yeah, let me handle dinner and rent and I might join you in this existential crisis that's 1,000 years away. There is some reality like when your full bandwidth is made up of surviving, a lot of these other concerns are trivial.

• 1:28:24Speaker 02

  Idea of Maslow's hierarchy of needs is that once you fulfill food and air, then you have shelter. And if you're worried about your movie role, I suppose that's not even on the pyramid. And if it was on the pyramid, it'd be the star on top of the Christmas tree of the pyramid.

• 1:28:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, the tip of the flag.

• 1:28:37Speaker 02

  And Maslow would punch you in the face.

• 1:28:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:28:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's a similar thing. It's like the cultural, if your parents left a country to come here so that you could have the opportunity to make a ton of money, you're not going to be like, I think money's bad. And like, that's literally the whole purpose of.

• 1:28:53Speaker 02

  The life raft.

• 1:28:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:28:56Speaker 02

  That's what the movie is doing and that's what the characters in their own different ways are trying to go back to connect to it in some ways. My character is kind of a yuppie and has all the feelings of OCD. It makes me incredibly uncomfortable, but I don't want to tell anybody about it because I'm grandson of survivors.

• 1:29:08Dax Shepard?

  Right. Were the places you were filming actual?

• 1:29:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, we filmed at a concentration camp. We filmed at one called Maidanik, which is five minutes from where my family lived, not the house that's in the movie, but my second cousins lived nonetheless. We filmed at this place, Maidanik. It was really difficult to film there. They don't want movies filming there for obvious reasons. I mean, most movies that are about the Holocaust take place during the Holocaust. These places that are hallowed grounds don't want extras and Nazi uniforms running through. So I took eight months to get in touch with these people to finally express to them what I wanted to do, which was I wanted to take these characters on a tour through this place, which is now kind of called a museum, the way that they as a museum are hoping to get people to come into. The movie was serving the same purpose as the place and important to go. I've been to a few of these genocide museums in Rwanda and Cambodia, and I've visited several of the concentration camps.

• 1:29:55Speaker 02

  Every time I think about these places, I just have this thought, which is like, God, everybody has to see this. And it's hard to say exactly why. I guess, you know, it'll make you more empath.

• 1:30:02Dax Shepard?

  All of it's overwhelming. And so I don't like thinking about it. And my best course of action is to explain why is just to basically fall on Nietzsche to have kind of a nihilist takeaway is your only recourse to not suffer in thinking about it. I'll go, yeah, bad shit happens on planet earth. People are tribal and that's the facts of life. It's all an attempt. So I don't actually have to feel how miserable that might be.

• 1:30:26Speaker 02

  Oh, I see.

• 1:30:26Dax Shepard?

  I got a little compartment in my head. And it's like, yeah, the earth's gnarly. We do gnarly shit. People are susceptible to cults of personality and we're social animals. I understand it, quote, therefore I don't have to feel it. But I think going there, I go, it matters a ton and it's real and it's palpable. And there's nothing I can do to really think my way out of this.

• 1:30:45Speaker 02

  That's right. I mean, and I guess it speaks to the thought that one death is a tragedy and a genocide is data. So when you go there, you realize, oh, actually, there's something real here. It's not something to just write off as a data point of something that occurred.

• 1:30:56Dax Shepard?

  To understand intellectually.

• 1:30:58Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:30:58Dax Shepard?

  One detail that I absolutely love that you had in the movie, only because I just read this book, When We Cease to Understand the World. Have you read that book?

• 1:31:06Speaker 02

  Oh, no.

• 1:31:06Dax Shepard?

  You must read this book because you show the Prussian blue on the gas chambers.

• 1:31:12Speaker 02

  It's the greatest book of all time. The first chapter is the Prussian blue.

• 1:31:15Dax Shepard?

  It's called Prussian blue.

• 1:31:15Speaker 02

  Sorry, I forgot the title. That is the single greatest book I've ever read. But I read it like five years ago and I just bought it for everybody I know.

• 1:31:20Dax Shepard?

  Did you read Maniac yet? His next book?

• 1:31:22Speaker 02

  Oh, he did. He write another thing?

• 1:31:23Dax Shepard?

  You must read it.

• 1:31:24Speaker 02

  He's French, right?

• 1:31:24Dax Shepard?

  He's like from 10 different countries. French is his first language, but he might be in Argentina writing.

• 1:31:29Speaker 02

  Oh, that's exactly what it was. That's right. He was living in South America, but he's French. That Prussian blue chapter is the eeriest thing I've ever read in my life.

• 1:31:36Dax Shepard?

  And so to tell people, Prussian blue only exists as a byproduct of the poisonous gas that was used.

• 1:31:44Speaker 01

  Wait, what is that? Sorry.

• 1:31:45Dax Shepard?

  So Prussian blue is just this beautiful color in a palette of painters and it was discovered in some year, I forget which year. And when you create that compound, that's in cyanide, or you say it in the movie.

• 1:31:58Speaker 02

  We say Zyklon B.

• 1:31:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, those chemicals create the color Prussian blue, which is so beautiful. And all of the gas chambers had Prussian blue all over, like the gas just would seep out of the doors where they would open it. So surrounding the door going in.

• 1:32:12Speaker 02

  Eighty years later, the stains are still on the wall.

• 1:32:14Dax Shepard?

  And there are these clouds of the prettiest blue you've ever seen. It's so weird. There's something weird about it.

• 1:32:19Speaker 02

  And you know, it's also the name of a girl band. Do you know about this?

• 1:32:21Dax Shepard?

  Oh, no. Prussian Blue?

• 1:32:22Speaker 02

  White Supremacist, two sisters.

• 1:32:24Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my lord. Ladies, ladies. That is the wrong use of Prussian Blue.

• 1:32:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:28Speaker 01

  Also, the wrong use of your life. What are you doing?

• 1:32:31Speaker 02

  I mean, they purposely named that because they're white supremacist. Yeah, yeah. Fascinating.

• 1:32:34Dax Shepard?

  It's a fantastic movie. You did a fucking great job. It's really, really good and refreshing and new and interesting and a cool story. And Karen's phenomenal and you're phenomenal.

• 1:32:45Speaker 02

  Thank you so much. I appreciate you saying that.

• 1:32:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and I'm delighted that you accomplished so much in such short time and on such little money.

• 1:32:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:32:53Dax Shepard?

  We just had someone on, who was just here talking, oh, maybe Anna Kendrick. When you make a movie for such a low budget, you want two things. You want America to think it costs a hundred million, but you want everyone to know you only have three million.

• 1:33:04Speaker 02

  Oh, that's brilliant.

• 1:33:05Dax Shepard?

  I want the credit of having made a big movie for a very little amount of money, but I want everyone to think it costs a hundred million.

• 1:33:12Speaker 02

  I was told to stop saying it.

• 1:33:15Speaker 02

  For exactly that reason. Yeah, you're exactly right. Why is that? Because America doesn't want to go to a movie.

• 1:33:20Dax Shepard?

  I want my cake and eat it too.

• 1:33:22Speaker 02

  But what's the appeal?

• 1:33:23Speaker 01

  Well, they want, you want to watch it and be like, holy shit, this movie's incredible. It must have cost a hundred million dollars.

• 1:33:29Speaker 02

  I see, I see, I see.

• 1:33:30Speaker 01

  Big movie.

• 1:33:31Speaker 02

  There are occasionally movies that the story of the thing is fifty thousand dollars and they did this, but that's, I guess, few and far between, right?

• 1:33:36Dax Shepard?

  Right, right. Puffy Chair, we can name them probably.

• 1:33:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:40Dax Shepard?

  Well, Jesse, this has been wonderful. I've enjoyed this so much. I hope everyone checks out A Real Pain. It's so, so good. What's interesting, it's Searchlight, this all makes sense. Because I watched it on Disney Debut, which is their like screening platform, but of course Disney owns Fox and Fox Searchlight.

• 1:33:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:56Dax Shepard?

  Will it make its way to Disney then?

• 1:33:59Speaker 02

  Disney Plus, I think it's what comes on, yes.

• 1:34:01Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great.

• 1:34:02Speaker 02

  Imagine it's the only Holocaust movie on Disney Plus.

• 1:34:05Dax Shepard?

  Just type in Holocaust on Disney.

• 1:34:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 1:34:08Dax Shepard?

  What if it said, I don't like to talk about that?

• 1:34:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, we don't talk about that.

• 1:34:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:34:12Dax Shepard?

  Maybe you'd enjoy Dumbo, or you want to feel like shit, Bambi. Yeah, all of their saddest movies come up. We don't have that title, but we have Bambi.

• 1:34:22Speaker 01

  Lion King.

• 1:34:24Speaker 02

  You know, all these movies, the parents die in the beginning.

• 1:34:26Speaker 01

  All of them.

• 1:34:27Dax Shepard?

  That's the formula.

• 1:34:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, isn't that just bizarre?

• 1:34:29Dax Shepard?

  It is. And when it's pointed out to you, you're like, oh, it's that simple.

• 1:34:31Speaker 01

  It makes sense. So it's the only way to get kids to care immediately. That's the only thing they know and could understand as painful.

• 1:34:38Speaker 02

  You know what ChatGPT told me? Because I asked, is this exploiting kids' psychology? And it said, no, this is a way to safely teach kids about emotions. So it's not real, but you're dealing with emotions.

• 1:34:47Dax Shepard?

  They're playing out their biggest fear. They'd lose mom and dad.

• 1:34:49Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 1:34:50Dax Shepard?

  They're doing what we do.

• 1:34:51Speaker 01

  Just a few years later, it's Texas Chainsaw.

• 1:34:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, exactly. Next stop.

• 1:34:54Speaker 01

  Six more years.

• 1:34:55Dax Shepard?

  All right. Well, I enjoyed meeting you on the lot some 12 years ago. And now this has been even better. I hope everyone watches A Real Pain. And we would love for you to come back when you're doing it again.

• 1:35:06Speaker 02

  That would be great. Thank you so much. This was so nice.

• 1:35:11Dax Shepard?

  I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode, but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong.

• 1:35:19Dax Shepard?

  I want to give a public shout out to the number one bunny in America, the number one rabbit, Carly Barton, my little sister. She got out all 1,500 sweaters.

• 1:35:31Speaker 01

  Wow, Carly.

• 1:35:32Dax Shepard?

  In like two days.

• 1:35:33Speaker 01

  Incredible.

• 1:35:33Dax Shepard?

  She had to borrow the truck, multiple trips to the post office.

• 1:35:37Speaker 01

  Thank you, Carly.

• 1:35:38Dax Shepard?

  But she cranked. That little gal can work. I think I can always call her a little girl. It's not disrespectful on a feminine standpoint, because it's my little sister. And she'll always be a little girl. I think she likes being a little sister.

• 1:35:51Speaker 01

  I'm sure she does.

• 1:35:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I like being a little brother. I mean, I hated being a little brother, but now I like being a little brother.

• 1:35:57Speaker 01

  I could see that. Yeah, you have little brother energy.

• 1:36:00Dax Shepard?

  Ah, you wish.

• 1:36:03Dax Shepard?

  I got big brother energy. Oh, here's something that I wanted to bring up, because I always talk about things I love that I've seen. And I know you're never going to watch this, which really breaks my heart. But do you know about the Yacht Rock documentary? On Max? My God, is it good?

• 1:36:20Speaker 01

  What's, what's the deal?

• 1:36:21Dax Shepard?

  First of all, Simmons produced it.

• 1:36:22Speaker 01

  Oh, cool. He's doing a lot of docs.

• 1:36:25Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:36:26Speaker 01

  He did the, I think he did the McMahon one.

• 1:36:29Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:36:30Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 1:36:31Dax Shepard?

  He's crushing that doc space.

• 1:36:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:33Dax Shepard?

  I've removed my shoes for comfort.

• 1:36:35Speaker 01

  I see. Those are nice socks.

• 1:36:37Dax Shepard?

  Thank you. It's really good. And you know, I consider myself a student of yacht rock. As you know, since you've known me, yacht rock was my thing. It gives you the origin of yacht rock. It was a comedy sketch by these guys in the nineties. They, they coined the term yacht rock.

• 1:36:51Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:36:51Dax Shepard?

  I knew all the players, of course, and you know, my love for Steely Dan. But I gotta be honest, I don't think I knew how much Steely Dan is the hub of all that music. I mean, it's, you can trace all of it so perfectly to all just them being the nucleus. And you know, Steely is my absolute favorite. I force people to talk about it all the time, especially when we have musicians. So what a delight for me to hear that that was the glue that held all that together.

• 1:37:19Speaker 01

  Did you talk to Best Boy Jimmy Kimmel about it?

• 1:37:21Dax Shepard?

  Of course. Yep, yep, yep.

• 1:37:23Speaker 01

  Since he loves yacht rock as well.

• 1:37:24Dax Shepard?

  He and I, well, Molly sent me the best video ever. If she says to her Alexa, or whatever device she has, hey Alexa, play good music. She did a video of this. It'll go, playing Dax's playlist, like the playlist that Jimmy made for me.

• 1:37:45Speaker 01

  Oh, that's sweet.

• 1:37:46Dax Shepard?

  Is what Alexa thinks is good music.

• 1:37:50Speaker 01

  That's so cute. He made you a playlist.

• 1:37:52Dax Shepard?

  There's a few bands, I guess that's where the debate is like, where does the line, like Hall and Oates is not yacht rock, but that's so.

• 1:37:59Speaker 01

  Why?

• 1:38:00Dax Shepard?

  Right. A lot of people would say, why?

• 1:38:01Speaker 01

  I think it is.

• 1:38:02Dax Shepard?

  And then there are people like Kenny Loggins is one of the, he'd be on the Mount Rushmore of yacht rock. But he also danced in all the genres. He also had a lot of rock and a lot of pop. And then all these seminal yacht rock jams.

• 1:38:18Speaker 01

  Carly Simon, Steely Dan, James Taylor.

• 1:38:21Dax Shepard?

  These aren't, that's the, neither of those are, James Taylor is not yacht rock.

• 1:38:25Speaker 01

  I mean, I think so.

• 1:38:26Dax Shepard?

  You think so?

• 1:38:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. Who gets to decide?

• 1:38:30Dax Shepard?

  Well, if you watch the doc, they give you a pretty good.

• 1:38:33Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 1:38:34Dax Shepard?

  Uh, framework for what it is.

• 1:38:36Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 1:38:37Dax Shepard?

  So the band that's at the hub is of course stealing it in, but then the individual that's the common connective tissue is Michael McDonald. He's in every single one of these things in some capacity.

• 1:38:50Speaker 01

  My God.

• 1:38:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:52Speaker 01

  I wonder what Simmons is gonna do next, cuz he's on a roll, I think.

• 1:38:56Dax Shepard?

  He's gonna make one for you.

• 1:38:57Speaker 01

  That would be fantastic. Speaking of, I got a lot of really sweet reach outs from people in my life, like old people in my life when I was in middle school and high school, and they were so happy for me that we got to have Lisa on.

• 1:39:13Dax Shepard?

  100% of the comments are about you.

• 1:39:15Speaker 01

  Well, that's very sweet.

• 1:39:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, people's enthusiasm and excitement for you.

• 1:39:19Speaker 01

  It was like people who I don't talk to really, but were there for when it was really.

• 1:39:26Dax Shepard?

  When Friends was the salve.

• 1:39:28Speaker 01

  Yes, and so they were all very, it was very heartwarming and sweet that they were like, oh, my gosh.

• 1:39:34Dax Shepard?

  That is nice.

• 1:39:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then Anthony, who also was there, he texted me.

• 1:39:40Dax Shepard?

  Not a blast from the past.

• 1:39:41Speaker 01

  Well, not a blast from the past, but a.

• 1:39:44Dax Shepard?

  Longstanding friendship.

• 1:39:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was in the past and he was a part of it, and he's also a huge Friends fan. And um, he said, I almost commented, Lisa Kudrow, this is how I find out. I had forgotten to tell.

• 1:39:59Dax Shepard?

  You hadn't even told him.

• 1:40:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'd forgotten.

• 1:40:02Dax Shepard?

  Hmm.

• 1:40:03Speaker 01

  And then I said, oh, some people reached out, which was really sweet. And he said, yeah, you really created strong brand awareness even back in the day.

• 1:40:13Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:40:13Dax Shepard?

  You didn't tell anyone was coming up, cuz when I did Toto, I couldn't resist. Whenever I was with the boys, I'm like, oh, dude, Toto said this, Toto said that.

• 1:40:20Speaker 01

  I told people Toto.

• 1:40:22Dax Shepard?

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:40:23Speaker 01

  Yeah. I told people about Lisa Kudrow. I guess I just forgot to tell the most important person.

• 1:40:28Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:40:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:29Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:40:30Speaker 01

  So, sorry, Anthony. This is a public apology.

• 1:40:33Dax Shepard?

  I need you to be brutally honest. So I was gonna wear a hat because as you know, I am involved, engaged in a two-front war with the thickness of my hair.

• 1:40:41Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:40:42Dax Shepard?

  And so I have a product that I have to use in the morning and at night. And it makes my hair terrible. I have an eye dropper. I drop, drop, drop, drop, drop. I just want it on my scalp. That's what I'm hoping. And then I try to get my fingers in there and just rub the scalp. But of course, it gets all over the hair.

• 1:40:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:40:56Dax Shepard?

  And then it's a pharmaceutical, so it's not like a hair product you'd want to use. And so my hair just always looks bad, basically, because I'm putting it on in the morning and then at night. So take your pick. It's gonna look bad. So I'm wearing a lot of hats lately because I don't want to deal with it.

• 1:41:11Speaker 01

  Oh, I did notice you were wearing a lot of hats.

• 1:41:13Dax Shepard?

  Or maybe I won't put in that product. I'll just, I'll, I'll give up some, um, some territory in this war. I might lose the battle today, but worth it so that I don't have to wear a hat at work.

• 1:41:23Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:41:24Dax Shepard?

  And then, so I was, that was all happening. I just exercised, went in there, cleaned up. What are we gonna do here? Wear a hat. And I go, I'm not gonna wear a hat. And now I'm here. And then just across my mind is my hair look crazy.

• 1:41:38Speaker 01

  Well, did you put the stuff on it?

• 1:41:39Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I got to.

• 1:41:40Speaker 01

  Well, you just told me you decided you might not do that.

• 1:41:42Dax Shepard?

  On a day I'm not gonna wear a hat, I would forego the treatment so that my hair doesn't look all goopy. So I was gonna wear a hat today.

• 1:41:50Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:41:51Dax Shepard?

  But then I decided at the last minute when I came down, no, I'm not gonna.

• 1:41:54Speaker 01

  Okay, got it. You see the confusion. Um, it looks fine.

• 1:41:58Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great. It doesn't look insane.

• 1:42:00Speaker 01

  What are you, what means, what's insane to you?

• 1:42:02Dax Shepard?

  Like a big block of plastic on half my hair and then normal hair everywhere else.

• 1:42:08Speaker 01

  Oh, no. You don't have that. But I have an idea.

• 1:42:12Dax Shepard?

  Tell me.

• 1:42:12Speaker 01

  Um, you know those scalp things? They're like...

• 1:42:17Dax Shepard?

  That tickle your scalp?

• 1:42:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:18Dax Shepard?

  The metal rods.

• 1:42:19Speaker 01

  Like sticks on them. You could do the thing and then use the scalp thing to get it all over. And then it would, you wouldn't be using your hands to get it all over.

• 1:42:30Dax Shepard?

  It's a great idea. But I think if you'd used the product, you would, you would know why that's not going to be an option for me. Because I do the eyedropper. Well, inevitably it wants to start running down my forehead and I don't think I can get it in my eyes. So I can't, I just gotta immediately stop it.

• 1:42:46Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:42:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's like, um, you've spilled something on the counter and it's making its way towards the, the edge. And it's going to go down to the floor. You gotta really quick get involved.

• 1:42:54Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:42:55Dax Shepard?

  So.

• 1:42:55Speaker 01

  Cause you definitely want to get you like, you have to put it up here.

• 1:42:58Dax Shepard?

  Well, that's front number one of the war. It's two front war. I'm fighting in the front and in the back. The middle were fine. I don't really even need. So most of my drops is all along the front. And then it wants to, cause of gravity, come down my face.

• 1:43:16Speaker 01

  Okay, I have another idea. What about Q tips? What about if you put it on a Q tip and then you dab, dab, dab?

• 1:43:25Dax Shepard?

  So I almost think I tried that method. The problem is, is like, I've got an eyedropper and I don't know in milliliters, but it's a considerable amount of fluid. If I was going to douse a Q tip, we would be in there for like 45 minutes to, to get enough of that fluid on the Q tip. Get that then transferred to the scalp, then go back. Cause the Q tip doesn't absorb all that much. And you're supposed to do two of the eyedrops.

• 1:43:49Speaker 01

  Oh, you two full eyedrops.

• 1:43:50Dax Shepard?

  It's a lot of fluid.

• 1:43:51Speaker 01

  Hmm. All right, well.

• 1:43:54Dax Shepard?

  A hat, I think is the solution.

• 1:43:56Speaker 01

  Just keep wearing a hat.

• 1:43:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:58Speaker 01

  All right, well, it's almost Christmas time. Are there any Christmas updates? I got a new table scape. So that was exciting.

• 1:44:06Dax Shepard?

  Tell me about a table scape.

• 1:44:08Speaker 01

  New tablecloth. This is from Heather Taylor home.

• 1:44:12Dax Shepard?

  We love Heather. As a human, I mean, I don't know much about the products, but she's a wonderful woman.

• 1:44:18Speaker 01

  My tree is 35, but she's still my baby, just like Harley is always your little girl.

• 1:44:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:24Speaker 01

  Her skirt is pink and green.

• 1:44:26Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:44:27Speaker 01

  So now I'm, I'm deciding to do pink and green.

• 1:44:31Dax Shepard?

  As a theme across the board in your home.

• 1:44:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:35Dax Shepard?

  Okay. That's the wicked colors?

• 1:44:37Speaker 01

  Oh God, I guess.

• 1:44:38Dax Shepard?

  Because Kristen did a wicked tree and it's pink and green.

• 1:44:41Speaker 01

  Nothing against Wicked, but that wasn't

• 1:44:44Dax Shepard?

  You wanted to be more original.

• 1:44:46Speaker 01

  I just wanted to match the beautiful skirt. The skirt's so cute. It doesn't look wickedy.

• 1:44:51Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:44:52Speaker 01

  I don't think people would think it. I'll ask. I'll ask everyone.

• 1:44:55Dax Shepard?

  Well, in full honesty, when I look at our wicked tree, I don't think wicked.

• 1:44:59Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:45:00Dax Shepard?

  No. I mean, green obviously is very embedded into the wicked.

• 1:45:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:05Dax Shepard?

  Uh, aesthetic.

• 1:45:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:07Dax Shepard?

  But I don't know about pink. Does that represent her?

• 1:45:10Speaker 01

  Cause yeah, I think she wears pink stuff.

• 1:45:13Dax Shepard?

  What's her name? Glenda. Glenda or Glenda?

• 1:45:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, Glenda. Glenda. She wears pink. I forgot that. I only think green when I think wicked, but you're right. Pink is a color.

• 1:45:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, apparently it's, it's uh, an essential part of the sauce. Speaking of Ariana Grande.

• 1:45:31Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:45:32Dax Shepard?

  Did I already say this on here?

• 1:45:33Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:45:34Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my sweetest little delt.

• 1:45:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, you told me he's so cute.

• 1:45:39Dax Shepard?

  She has her first star she love.

• 1:45:41Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:45:42Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my God, you guys. Huh. I love it so much. It's um, it's her version of Lincoln's Taylor Swift. She finally has her girl and it's Ariana Grande and she has printed up, she goes on the internet and finds, she types in Ariana Grande. Color shit. It's in my phone as a search, which is problematic, but um, she uses my phone sometimes.

• 1:46:06Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:46:06Dax Shepard?

  It's like a drawing outline and then she prints up all these little things and then she colors them all day long. And then she's now telling me a lot of facts about Ariana Grande and she wants to know when we're going to interview her.

• 1:46:21Speaker 01

  I know. Now we have to.

• 1:46:23Dax Shepard?

  Well, of course I'll die. I'll die getting her.

• 1:46:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:27Dax Shepard?

  Cause my little girl. Anyways, I, it is so.

• 1:46:30Speaker 01

  You have two big gets, Taylor and Ariana.

• 1:46:33Dax Shepard?

  I know. My gals did not um, shoot low.

• 1:46:36Speaker 01

  Good taste.

• 1:46:37Dax Shepard?

  They went right for the stars. Um, but boy, do I like it. And I really like, it's just so cute when you love something when you're little and you start gathering all the facts and she's telling me about her vocal range and why she's special in this way. That way.

• 1:46:52Speaker 01

  So cute.

• 1:46:53Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I love it.

• 1:46:54Speaker 01

  It's a pure time.

• 1:46:55Dax Shepard?

  It's pure.

• 1:46:55Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. You told me this a little bit ago. And so then some videos have been popping up about her. I mean, I'm, I get so many wicked wicked videos, which is kind of weird.

• 1:47:05Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:47:06Speaker 01

  Maybe they know about my tree and they're confused. I, look, I loved the movie. I love the movie. But I'm not like, some people are die hard wicked and they've seen it multiple times and they.

• 1:47:20Dax Shepard?

  Their sing alongs.

• 1:47:21Speaker 01

  Exactly. It's a whole, it's like a whole thing. It's so fun. That's not really me. So I guess I'm, I'm interest, it's interesting that I'm being targeted in that way.

• 1:47:31Dax Shepard?

  Do you remember Adam Ozier? We interviewed him.

• 1:47:34Speaker 01

  Instagram.

• 1:47:34Dax Shepard?

  Instagram, CEO, head of, head of Instagram. I don't know what the title is, but I follow him. And you know, there is a feature on Instagram where you can wipe your algorithm.

• 1:47:45Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:47:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. It's like, if you're starting to see stuff too often that you don't like, or maybe you watch, in my case, it would be like, I watched a fight video.

• 1:47:54Dax Shepard?

  Cause there are certain fight videos I love. If it's like a little guy that was getting bullied by a big guy in a car situation. He gets out and he happens to knock the guy out. I love that.

• 1:48:02Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:48:03Dax Shepard?

  But then they think I like every kind of fight. And then I just, and then it's sticky. I kinda, it's hard for me to resist looking, watching fights. And I don't want to watch a bunch of fights.

• 1:48:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:13Dax Shepard?

  So like, that's a case I might go in there and, and like, just wipe it and then start fresh. But that's a feature now.

• 1:48:19Speaker 01

  That's cool.

• 1:48:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:20Speaker 01

  I like that.

• 1:48:21Dax Shepard?

  He's a very thoughtful, mindful person that's trying to make that thing the best version of it. There's like a real commitment. Remember when he was here, they were gonna hide likes.

• 1:48:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:48:34Speaker 01

  They tested that. They beta tested that.

• 1:48:36Dax Shepard?

  And I don't think the consumer wanted that.

• 1:48:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:38Dax Shepard?

  But they tried, which I think in theory was a really kind of good idea.

• 1:48:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree.

• 1:48:44Dax Shepard?

  But I do appreciate that there seems to be a lot of effort being made to keep it a kind of positive place.

• 1:48:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, they have, um, I think they have whole divisions at Meta that are fully ethics based.

• 1:48:56Dax Shepard?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 1:48:57Speaker 01

  A lot of the things have to run through that.

• 1:48:59Dax Shepard?

  Trying to dial down the polarization and stuff. Yeah.

• 1:49:05Speaker 03

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

• 1:49:18Speaker 01

  I've also gotten a lot of videos about her.

• 1:49:20Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:49:21Speaker 01

  And I sometimes think to send them to you to show Delta, would you do that? Or are you like, probably not videos?

• 1:49:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, like I love that she's drawing pictures of her. I don't mind going on the internet and getting the little things, but I don't really want her just mindlessly ingesting a bunch of videos.

• 1:49:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:39Dax Shepard?

  I.e. fights in parking lots.

• 1:49:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:49:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:42Speaker 01

  I get that, but how's she learning about like her vocal range and stuff?

• 1:49:47Dax Shepard?

  Probably at school. That's where you learn everything, right? Well, probably like one friend learns one thing and they add to the thing. The other friend's like, I heard she owns a Chihuahua.

• 1:49:55Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:49:56Dax Shepard?

  And you're like, yeah, you know, I don't think she owns, I don't even know if she owns a dog. That was just an example, a theoretical example.

• 1:50:04Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:50:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:05Speaker 01

  Can you see if she owns a dog, Ron?

• 1:50:06Speaker 06

  Yeah, I'm Googling it already. She has several dogs. Myron, a pit bull mix that was left behind by rapper Mac Miller.

• 1:50:16Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:50:16Dax Shepard?

  Myron.

• 1:50:17Speaker 01

  All right. Do you have any, have you watched any more Christmas movies?

• 1:50:22Dax Shepard?

  The last one was Charlie Brown Christmas and then Half of Frosty. Have you watched any?

• 1:50:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, I watched The Holiday. I mainly just have it on in the background. The Holiday, Home Alone, Love Actually.

• 1:50:36Dax Shepard?

  Again, I just think it'd be so trippy to be in one of those movies where like every single year, everyone's reminded of you. It's like a hit song.

• 1:50:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:47Dax Shepard?

  Well, you don't get that with movies. People aren't like making time to watch.

• 1:50:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:52Dax Shepard?

  Hurt Locker, which was an incredible movie, but in large part will never be seen again.

• 1:50:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:57Dax Shepard?

  So it's kind of a gift. It's a blessing to end up in one of these.

• 1:51:00Speaker 01

  It's a blessing. It's almost like what we do, sort of like how podcasts are so intimate. They, they become part of your fabric, like your daily fabric. Christmas movies have that. They become part of your traditions.

• 1:51:15Dax Shepard?

  They're good triggers.

• 1:51:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. And like when we had Jude Law and we talked a little bit about The Holiday.

• 1:51:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's like part of my year.

• 1:51:25Dax Shepard?

  Yes, always.

• 1:51:26Speaker 01

  Always. And Jack Black too. I forgot that he was also in his role.

• 1:51:34Dax Shepard?

  But it was almost mine for a minute.

• 1:51:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:36Dax Shepard?

  When he had a scheduling conflict, but then they worked it out.

• 1:51:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, you could have been, you could have been.

• 1:51:43Dax Shepard?

  I could have been in one of those where everyone remembers.

• 1:51:46Speaker 01

  That would be cool.

• 1:51:47Dax Shepard?

  They should re-release Without a Paddle and just give it a ton of Christmas songs. Maybe that'll, you could trick.

• 1:51:55Speaker 01

  Well, you're really lucky if you're like Die, I haven't seen it, but Die Hard, which is a

• 1:52:01Dax Shepard?

  Christmas movie.

• 1:52:02Speaker 01

  Christmas movie, but it's not, right?

• 1:52:04Dax Shepard?

  It's funny you would say that. Well, no, it's just set during Christmas. You know, I tried to do this with Chips and I was a bit heartbroken because I love that just in the background of LA in Lethal Weapon was Christmas because it's so, especially if you're from Michigan, it's weird that California has Christmas. You're like, how are they doing it? They don't have fucking snow or anything. There's something really neat about it.

• 1:52:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:26Dax Shepard?

  So I had this great scene between Michael Rosenbaum and Vincent D'Onofrio and he pulls over, uh, um, Michael and where we shot it is right at the 101 where you get off at Vine. So in the background was the Capitol Records building and they always put this enormous Christmas light tree. It's like the shape of a tree on the roof and it's so iconic. And every shot I kind of built around making sure that was behind D'Onofrio and it was so great and it was the opening scene and you, I was like, oh, it's great. It's gonna have a Christmas vibe. And we have other Christmas stuff, but when that one went away, that scene didn't make the movie. It was a great scene on its own, but

• 1:53:08Dax Shepard?

  it didn't really service the movie all that well. So that scene got left entirely unseen. And then it really took out the momentum of the Christmas aspect.

• 1:53:16Speaker 01

  Dang.

• 1:53:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. But I was trying to do that.

• 1:53:19Speaker 01

  That would have been cool.

• 1:53:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Cause I love a little Papa Christmas in the movie.

• 1:53:23Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 1:53:24Dax Shepard?

  Everyone says triggers in a negative way, but there's really positive triggers.

• 1:53:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:28Speaker 01

  That's right. I think we think it because guns.

• 1:53:32Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah. Well, I think we think it because everyone says I was triggered.

• 1:53:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:53:37Dax Shepard?

  Every fourth sentence.

• 1:53:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:38Dax Shepard?

  In popular culture, myself guilty of it too. And it's never a good thing at the end of it. Yeah.

• 1:53:46Speaker 01

  But I guess my point is I think it, that originated, just even that colloquial term originated from a gun trigger.

• 1:53:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, or a crossbow probably.

• 1:53:55Speaker 01

  No, I would've done.

• 1:53:56Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:53:57Speaker 01

  Um, Rob, um, is the Home Alone House in Chicago like immortalized at Christmas?

• 1:54:06Speaker 06

  Yeah, I used to work not far from it and I'd sometimes just drive over there and eat lunch on the street.

• 1:54:12Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, just like outside?

• 1:54:15Speaker 06

  In my car.

• 1:54:17Speaker 01

  Do people in like?

• 1:54:18Speaker 06

  Uh, they don't, they don't love that people, um, hang out.

• 1:54:21Speaker 01

  Oh, cause someone lives there.

• 1:54:23Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:54:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:54:24Speaker 01

  They should.

• 1:54:25Dax Shepard?

  They want to like, yeah.

• 1:54:26Speaker 01

  I mean, whoever Columbia should have bought it.

• 1:54:30Dax Shepard?

  Well.

• 1:54:31Speaker 01

  I think, and then made it a museum.

• 1:54:34Dax Shepard?

  But you can't put a museum in the middle of someone's neighborhood. Um, that does remind me, last thing, uh, Lincoln and Delta and I on Sunday, we went into Altadena, I think a bit because you and I had shot a commercial there.

• 1:54:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, that's also funny because all time, the restaurant I love, you love, we all love. They just opened a new restaurant in Altadena.

• 1:54:56Dax Shepard?

  And you went?

• 1:54:57Speaker 01

  And I went the day before we shot the commercial and it was so weird because I, I never go to Altadena.

• 1:55:02Dax Shepard?

  Same.

• 1:55:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:03Dax Shepard?

  So we were shooting a commercial there and then I kind of remembered, I think they have a street here that's super Christmasy, known around town. So then I hit up Bree because she lives adjacent to Altadena.

• 1:55:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:14Dax Shepard?

  And I said, isn't there a street? Oh, yeah, you gotta go Christmas Tree Lane. It's right by the public library. Blah, blah, blah. So, and she said, we let the kids hang out the sunroof because you drive really slow. And I was like, okay, great. I got great tips. I'm going to bring the Raptor because it's got a huge sunroof. So Lincoln and Delta and I, uh, went up to Christmas Tree Lane and we spent two hours just crawling through all the neighborhoods, looking at all of the houses that were decorated. And there are some doozies. I'm so, I'm so proud of those people that put in that effort. Some of these displays, some, that was a week of installation for sure. There was, um,

• 1:55:58Dax Shepard?

  There was a full Christmas Vacation house.

• 1:56:00Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:56:01Dax Shepard?

  With like the characters there. There was, uh, someone had the lamp from, um, Christmas Story. You know, the dad wins that stupid lamp. It's a sexy leg with a, with a, with a stocking on it and then a lampshade. And then the dogs break it and he's so upset. My lamp, my lamp. And he, and he spends his whole time gluing it back together and that looks insane. Someone had one of the actual things in their window.

• 1:56:27Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:56:28Dax Shepard?

  Someone put up this huge, it's like you're standing inside of a Christmas photo. They put a big border with Merry Christmas and it's lit. So you can get out and step behind it. So I got the girls standing behind it.

• 1:56:39Speaker 01

  They let people like come out and walk around.

• 1:56:41Dax Shepard?

  Oh, there's signs in the city. No, no parking during this time. It's like it's designated as an attraction and you just coast through.

• 1:56:50Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:56:50Dax Shepard?

  And people walk.

• 1:56:52Speaker 01

  That's so cool.

• 1:56:52Dax Shepard?

  We hung up the sunroof, not we, them.

• 1:56:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, cute.

• 1:56:56Dax Shepard?

  I can't reach the pedals.

• 1:56:57Speaker 06

  You cruise control.

• 1:56:59Dax Shepard?

  Fuck, you're right, Rob. I should have set the cruise on six miles an hour. Maybe ghosts ride it. It just got out, walked next to it.

• 1:57:06Speaker 01

  That sounds really lovely.

• 1:57:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it was really, really fun. And then we made the mistake of going to the In-N-Out in Altadena. And it was, it was a record waiting. It was a record.

• 1:57:22Speaker 01

  How are they doing this? It's, there's always, I've never been in my entire life and there's not been a line. At random times, it's pretty cool.

• 1:57:34Dax Shepard?

  Good for them.

• 1:57:35Speaker 01

  Cause they don't.

• 1:57:36Dax Shepard?

  A calm, they don't build out for it.

• 1:57:38Speaker 01

  And they don't, um, market. Like I've never seen a commercial for In-N-Out.

• 1:57:43Dax Shepard?

  Well, Bree and I used to see those commercials.

• 1:57:45Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 1:57:45Dax Shepard?

  Cause we would sing, that was our love song.

• 1:57:47Speaker 01

  What was it?

• 1:57:48Dax Shepard?

  The song was in and out. That's what a hamburger's all about. But we would say, what made it our love song is we would say in and out. That's what a Handenburger's all about. We would say Handenburger. And that's what made it a love song.

• 1:58:10Speaker 01

  Oh. I thought I like that because I thought you were gonna make it gross.

• 1:58:15Dax Shepard?

  Dirty like in and out. That would be a sex song.

• 1:58:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:58:19Dax Shepard?

  One more thing about In-N-Out. My mother went to California when I was a kid, when I was a skateboarder. We couldn't believe she was going to California, USA. We had never been, we never even met people that went to California.

• 1:58:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:31Dax Shepard?

  When she came back, what she had seen while she was out there is what a good mom she was. She had seen other skateboarders and they had the In-N-Out sticker on their skateboards. It would say In-N-Out Burger and the skateboarders would cut off the B and the R. So it said In-N-Out Urge.

• 1:58:48Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:58:49Dax Shepard?

  And she brought back a stack of the stickers for David and I and she showed us how to cut off the thing.

• 1:58:53Speaker 01

  Cute. And were people like, that's so cool, man.

• 1:58:57Dax Shepard?

  That was really cool. It's California.

• 1:59:00Speaker 01

  Like, oh my, the land of fruit nuts. I told you my friend's mom said that.

• 1:59:06Dax Shepard?

  Were you, was California like a crazy fantasy as well for you?

• 1:59:11Speaker 01

  It was a fantasy that I wanted to go live there.

• 1:59:14Dax Shepard?

  But just as a place, long before like I wanted to be in show business, it was just like, oh, they surf out there. They skateboard out there. There's palm trees out there.

• 1:59:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:24Dax Shepard?

  We were infected with the fantasy of it.

• 1:59:26Speaker 01

  I was infected with the fantasy of Hollywood and I knew that was there. We went on a family vacation when I was 11.

• 1:59:35Dax Shepard?

  Oh, see, okay. Well, then that, yeah, then it's a real place. So of course you wouldn't have had that.

• 1:59:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, we did the tour.

• 1:59:42Dax Shepard?

  The first time I went, I think my mom took me when I was maybe 14 or 15 to do legwork for a car show. So we were working.

• 1:59:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:48Dax Shepard?

  But we flew and we went to Riverside. That's where the car show was.

• 1:59:56Dax Shepard?

  What a, no disrespect to Riverside folks, not the fantasy of California. Like a land, you're 50 miles from the ocean.

• 2:00:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:06Dax Shepard?

  It's industrial. It's sprawling. I was like, this is California.

• 2:00:10Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:00:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. But then we went to San Francisco because we had legwork up there and then, and then we rode the trolley. And I was like, well, this is a fantasy land.

• 2:00:19Speaker 01

  Definitely. Yeah.

• 2:00:20Dax Shepard?

  Went to Chinatown.

• 2:00:21Speaker 01

  And we went to San Diego, went to the zoo.

• 2:00:25Dax Shepard?

  You did. Your parents are good, good parents.

• 2:00:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, very.

• 2:00:29Dax Shepard?

  Took their little girl all over.

• 2:00:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:30Dax Shepard?

  And show her the world.

• 2:00:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, it bit them in the butt.

• 2:00:34Dax Shepard?

  Cause you split.

• 2:00:34Speaker 01

  She left.

• 2:00:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, they shouldn't have shown you this place.

• 2:00:37Speaker 01

  No. Um, we sit right by the airport and you could hear the. The planes the whole night.

• 2:00:43Dax Shepard?

  That's my Riverside experience.

• 2:00:46Speaker 01

  Um, anyway, okay, so this, so Jesse, ding ding ding. He lives in Hollywood. Actually, he doesn't. I think he lives in New York.

• 2:00:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, he doesn't live here. But he has done a lot of work here in Hollywood.

• 2:00:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. I feel bad because when you talked about Jesse's sister, I was like, I was, it was new information and I reacted as such. And then like four seconds later, I was like, oh, I did know that.

• 2:01:14Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you already knew that?

• 2:01:15Speaker 01

  But I forgot. And when you said it, it sounded new.

• 2:01:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:19Speaker 01

  And then I felt fraudulent.

• 2:01:20Dax Shepard?

  I didn't know. I'm wondering what percentage of the audience will know immediately who I'm talking about. Cause as soon as I heard Pepsi girl, I could see her in my head, the spirally curls.

• 2:01:29Speaker 01

  Let's bring up a picture of her on the TV.

• 2:01:31Dax Shepard?

  Rob, search bicycles in Paris.

• 2:01:34Speaker 01

  On the TV show.

• 2:01:37Dax Shepard?

  Where does the, I think that's Austria.

• 2:01:40Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:01:42Dax Shepard?

  That's what I think.

• 2:01:43Speaker 01

  I think.

• 2:01:43Dax Shepard?

  God, is it beautiful?

• 2:01:44Speaker 01

  I think it might be Ireland. There she is. Look how cute she is.

• 2:01:49Dax Shepard?

  She loves her Pepsis.

• 2:01:51Speaker 01

  Ah, and you know what else?

• 2:01:53Dax Shepard?

  Look at her little teeth.

• 2:01:54Speaker 01

  I know. She looks like him.

• 2:01:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:58Speaker 01

  Like they definitely have a family resemblance.

• 2:02:00Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:01Speaker 01

  Oh my God. I wonder if he thinks she's so cute. He didn't say so in the interview.

• 2:02:06Dax Shepard?

  Well, yeah, of course, it's his sister.

• 2:02:09Speaker 01

  Well, you think your sister's so cute?

• 2:02:11Dax Shepard?

  My sister is.

• 2:02:11Speaker 01

  You talk about it all the time.

• 2:02:13Dax Shepard?

  I don't talk about how cute my sister is all the time.

• 2:02:16Speaker 01

  I'm just kidding. But if your sister is known as being like the cutest girl in America.

• 2:02:22Dax Shepard?

  I wonder if I would hate it.

• 2:02:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:02:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:25Speaker 01

  Even if it was your little sister?

• 2:02:26Dax Shepard?

  No, if it were her, I'd like it. I want the best for her. I always have. Well, that's great.

• 2:02:32Speaker 01

  I love her dimples. Dimples are a thing.

• 2:02:35Dax Shepard?

  Great dimples.

• 2:02:36Speaker 01

  If and when science is good enough, which it, it will be, um, I'm gonna pick dimples for my kid.

• 2:02:46Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really?

• 2:02:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:47Dax Shepard?

  I, I don't know if people with dimples like dimples, even though we all like their dimples.

• 2:02:52Speaker 01

  Well, that's, they're crazy.

• 2:02:53Dax Shepard?

  Lincoln was just telling me that there are now a trend on social media is there's like a freckle filter. People put freckles on themselves. And what a, what a turn of events. Everyone with freckles didn't want them.

• 2:03:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:09Dax Shepard?

  And I was trying to explain to her, look, here's how it goes, Link. Whatever you don't have, you want. I wanted curly black hair.

• 2:03:15Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:03:16Dax Shepard?

  Everyone with curly black hair wanted straight blonde hair.

• 2:03:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:03:19Dax Shepard?

  I had a ton of freckles. It was like a fart cloud on my face. And of course, I didn't want freckles.

• 2:03:24Speaker 01

  Right. But what happened to your freckles? I don't see any.

• 2:03:29Dax Shepard?

  You don't?

• 2:03:29Speaker 01

  Uh-uh.

• 2:03:30Dax Shepard?

  It's probably too much like sun damage under. I bet if we, if I got good, if I got like, um, acidy facials, maybe it would reveal.

• 2:03:37Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:03:37Dax Shepard?

  But you know, my arms are freckled to high heaven.

• 2:03:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:03:40Dax Shepard?

  It's almost like, I'm almost turning a person of color, just on the arms. If you just saw my arms.

• 2:03:46Speaker 01

  Maybe with age also freckles dissipate on the face. Just this, I would say the sun exposure, but that also seems counterintuitive because sun also brings out freckles. A lot of people in the summer, their freckles come out.

• 2:04:00Dax Shepard?

  Pop. Oh, in the summer, my freckles were on fire.

• 2:04:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04:04Dax Shepard?

  Link's got freckles. A lot of freckles.

• 2:04:06Speaker 01

  Freckles are so cute.

• 2:04:07Dax Shepard?

  They are cute.

• 2:04:08Speaker 01

  Oh yeah. So I'm going to pick dimples.

• 2:04:10Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:04:10Speaker 01

  For my kid.

• 2:04:11Dax Shepard?

  When you get your designer kid?

• 2:04:12Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:04:13Dax Shepard?

  A girl with dimples.

• 2:04:15Speaker 01

  Oh, can you imagine?

• 2:04:19Speaker 01

  She's gonna be so cute.

• 2:04:21Dax Shepard?

  It's a cute name too, for what it is. It's on a monopie.

• 2:04:24Speaker 01

  Dimples, it is.

• 2:04:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:04:27Speaker 01

  I, do you think if I go to my face guy, if I tell him I want dimples?

• 2:04:32Dax Shepard?

  That would be the easiest thing for them to do.

• 2:04:35Speaker 01

  Because they just carve out?

• 2:04:37Dax Shepard?

  No, I, I don't know if I understand how it works, but I do believe there's some kind of a facelift you can get with strings, where they put string in your, in your face somehow. So clearly they could just put the string in and then suck that part of the string in. And if they haven't invented that, that's mine.

• 2:04:54Speaker 06

  They do a dimpoplasty.

• 2:04:55Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:04:56Speaker 06

  Make an incision in your cheek, remove a small amount of muscle and fat, and it creates a dimple.

• 2:05:01Speaker 01

  Actually, that's the one I, what I said. I said carve something out.

• 2:05:05Dax Shepard?

  You're right.

• 2:05:05Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 2:05:06Dax Shepard?

  I want string involved.

• 2:05:08Speaker 06

  It's only $1,500.

• 2:05:09Dax Shepard?

  Oh, that sounds way too cheap for facial surgery. I don't want, this is not where you want to save a buck.

• 2:05:16Speaker 01

  I'm gonna come back in the new year.

• 2:05:18Speaker 06

  You have six dimples.

• 2:05:19Dax Shepard?

  You get multiple dimples. Do you think, if you like-

• 2:05:22Speaker 01

  One went wrong, so I did another one.

• 2:05:24Dax Shepard?

  Well, just if you like two dimples, why wouldn't you like four?

• 2:05:27Speaker 01

  When I design my kid, she's gonna have one eat on each side.

• 2:05:32Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:05:33Speaker 01

  I guess I have to figure out exactly where. And then she's gonna have curly hair.

• 2:05:39Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:05:40Speaker 01

  I don't think I have to design. I think she's gonna have naturally curly hair, like me. Um, well, I guess depends on who her dad is.

• 2:05:47Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 2:05:48Speaker 01

  Okay, but naturally curly-

• 2:05:49Dax Shepard?

  Don't get with a caucasoid. Lower your chance.

• 2:05:52Speaker 01

  Exactly. But remember, I saw that mixed girl at, um, mixed late woman?

• 2:05:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that you were obsessed with and turned out her parent, one of her parents was Indian?

• 2:06:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, she was so pretty.

• 2:06:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:02Speaker 06

  Have a kid with carrot top or something.

• 2:06:04Dax Shepard?

  Ooh, that's a good idea.

• 2:06:05Speaker 01

  Oh, curly. Okay, I like that.

• 2:06:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, red curly hair.

• 2:06:08Speaker 01

  Um.

• 2:06:09Dax Shepard?

  Dimples.

• 2:06:09Speaker 01

  And then I'm gonna give her-

• 2:06:11Dax Shepard?

  Are there any Indians with red hair?

• 2:06:13Speaker 01

  I've never seen one.

• 2:06:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:15Speaker 01

  Well, that's natural. People dye their hair.

• 2:06:18Dax Shepard?

  Right, sure, sure.

• 2:06:19Speaker 01

  That's a recessive gene that I don't think has made its way to dominance. All right, anyway, Jesse, Jesse, Jesse has sort of red hair.

• 2:06:29Dax Shepard?

  Does he?

• 2:06:29Speaker 01

  I'm not sure.

• 2:06:30Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:06:31Speaker 01

  Um.

• 2:06:32Dax Shepard?

  There's those crickets.

• 2:06:33Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 2:06:34Speaker 01

  Cricket? Okay, what is going on? What is going on in LA with crickets? Because this happened when I was recording something else in a different location.

• 2:06:44Dax Shepard?

  And-

• 2:06:44Speaker 01

  We had to stop.

• 2:06:45Dax Shepard?

  Cause cricket infestation. Yeah, I don't know what's going on, cause there's, they're here in the studio. And then when I'm in the hot tub at night, there's, it's so loud behind my head, the crickets. It's interesting, cause in the summertime in Michigan, I love the sound of crickets.

• 2:06:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:00Dax Shepard?

  In the hot tub at night, or when we're recording, I hate it. Again, we had this moment last week where the guest was becoming very emotional. And it was a very sweet moment. And like, almost like someone queued the cr- like there was a second, crickets, crickets, crickets.

• 2:07:14Speaker 01

  Oh, God.

• 2:07:14Dax Shepard?

  The PA was like, queue the crickets. Also another cricket- Were so loud in there and I was like, oh my God, this is

• 2:07:20Speaker 01

  I didn't even I didn't hear it because it was a big enough mo- it was a sweet enough moment that I think you're in it. But I mean, this is like not good for sound.

• 2:07:29Speaker 06

  Well, they're they're invested in the garage rubber. Cause when we

• 2:07:33Speaker 01

  What do we do?

• 2:07:34Speaker 06

  When that new couch came, Carly and I opened the garage to move it in and probably 400 crickets came out.

• 2:07:41Dax Shepard?

  So we need to get some cricket poison.

• 2:07:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:45Speaker 01

  I read you can do peppermint tea.

• 2:07:49Dax Shepard?

  Brew a pot of peppermint tea and splash it everywhere.

• 2:07:52Speaker 01

  They don't like peppermint tea.

• 2:07:53Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:07:54Speaker 01

  And some other aromatherapies.

• 2:07:57Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:07:58Speaker 01

  Okay, speaking of, do mice, another

• 2:08:03Speaker 01

  unwanted pest.

• 2:08:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:05Speaker 01

  Unless you're talking about me.

• 2:08:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:08Speaker 01

  Uh, love eating plastic.

• 2:08:10Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, they they

• 2:08:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, they eat plastic. They do.

• 2:08:14Dax Shepard?

  They ate my bus.

• 2:08:15Speaker 01

  And they chew right through it to keep their incisors from growing too long.

• 2:08:20Dax Shepard?

  What if I took that mouse to court, like a small claims court?

• 2:08:25Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 2:08:25Dax Shepard?

  And I said, look, he's $3,500 worth of damage here on my bus. And the mouse is standing there. Maybe the mouse has a lawyer. I'm not sure.

• 2:08:32Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:08:33Dax Shepard?

  But the mouse is just there. And there. What do you say about this? And he's just like, and you go, oh, he loves plastic. That's what he's saying.

• 2:08:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, he loves plastic. Okay, so eBay's a thorough astronaut costume. Not there anymore.

• 2:08:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:51Speaker 01

  People snatched them up.

• 2:08:52Dax Shepard?

  As they should. They were like 15 bucks.

• 2:08:54Speaker 01

  Right. You can buy spacesuits, though, on there.

• 2:08:58Dax Shepard?

  You can.

• 2:08:59Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. If you want. They're thousands of dollars.

• 2:09:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I don't have such an interest in

• 2:09:08Dax Shepard?

  aeronautics or

• 2:09:09Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:09:10Dax Shepard?

  It's just more I had an interest in keeping my costume.

• 2:09:12Speaker 01

  Nostalgia.

• 2:09:13Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:14Speaker 01

  All right. Was Squid in the Whale Noah Baumbach's first movie? No, it was called Kicking and Screaming in 1995. That was his first movie.

• 2:09:23Dax Shepard?

  That's different than the Will Ferrell kicking and screaming, though. I think it is.

• 2:09:26Speaker 01

  It's different.

• 2:09:26Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:09:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is about four young men who graduate from college and refuse to move on with their lives. Okay, When We Cease to Understand the World author, is he French? 10 different, he's from 10 different countries. He was born in the Netherlands. He spent his childhood in Buenos Aires and Lima, and then he moved to Santiago at the age of 14.

• 2:09:47Dax Shepard?

  So, lot of countries.

• 2:09:49Speaker 01

  Lot of countries. And if you type in, is Benjamin Labatut, uh, French? It says no.

• 2:09:59Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 2:10:00Speaker 01

  No, he is Chilean, not French.

• 2:10:02Dax Shepard?

  Do they mean his nationality or his ethnicity?

• 2:10:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, it says nationality. He is a Chilean author, birthplace, childhood. It just, it doesn't say.

• 2:10:11Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 2:10:11Speaker 01

  It doesn't say like his dad is from, it doesn't say that.

• 2:10:14Dax Shepard?

  Okay. I sent it to Kutcher the other day.

• 2:10:16Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 2:10:16Dax Shepard?

  I said, I don't know if I've already recommended this book or not. Sent him the link on Audible and then he said, I'm pretty sure I'm the one who recommended this to you.

• 2:10:26Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 2:10:30Dax Shepard?

  Which is possible. I don't, I can't remember how it came across my desk. Take it off your chest. Get it off my desk.

• 2:10:38Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 2:10:40Dax Shepard?

  That's your Ariana Grande.

• 2:10:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, my Ariana Grande is Friends, I guess. Like that, I sat that pure time.

• 2:10:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Who was, did you love any singers?

• 2:10:54Speaker 01

  Britney.

• 2:10:54Dax Shepard?

  You did. Good for you. It's Britney Bridge.

• 2:10:57Speaker 01

  I know, except I didn't really.

• 2:11:01Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:11:01Speaker 01

  You know, no, I did, I did, but I was, not like I liked Friends or nothing. I wasn't owning it in the way that.

• 2:11:09Dax Shepard?

  Probably more just to be involved.

• 2:11:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, definitely. Um, I was more into yacht rock.

• 2:11:16Dax Shepard?

  You don't know shit about yacht rock.

• 2:11:17Speaker 01

  I was actually because my dad would play music in his car. Soft rock.

• 2:11:23Dax Shepard?

  Soft rock.

• 2:11:24Speaker 01

  The soft rock station is the yacht rock station.

• 2:11:26Dax Shepard?

  So that's like, yeah, Carly Simons goes in there, James Taylor, soft rock for sure.

• 2:11:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:31Dax Shepard?

  Yacht rock is a subset of soft rock.

• 2:11:33Speaker 01

  All right.

• 2:11:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:34Speaker 01

  Okay, that's fine. Um, okay, well, I'm, I think I said this already, but I am planning on reading this book over the Christmas break.

• 2:11:43Dax Shepard?

  Oh, good.

• 2:11:44Speaker 01

  Yes, I'm excited to read it.

• 2:11:45Dax Shepard?

  It's a goodie.

• 2:11:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:46Dax Shepard?

  One of my faves. I'm re-listening to it right now.

• 2:11:48Speaker 01

  And I'll read The Maniac. And I'm gonna read three more books.

• 2:11:52Dax Shepard?

  You're writing a lot of checks that I don't know that your little buns are gonna cash.

• 2:11:57Speaker 01

  We'll see.

• 2:11:59Dax Shepard?

  All right.

• 2:11:59Speaker 01

  Um, all right. Happy holidays.

• 2:12:01Dax Shepard?

  Happy holidays. Love you.

• 2:12:02Speaker 01

  Love you.