Mom's Car: Liz Plank

On this week’s episode of Mom’s Car we welcome Liz Plank (journalist, author of For the Love of Men, and host of Boy Problems). Liz, Dax, and Best Friend Aaron Weakley talk through the stakes of soft launching a boyfriend, dating men who come with renovation projects, whether having a boyfriend is actually embarrassing, the difference between being picky and expecting perfection, why raising kids should be a team sport, begging your partner to finally fart in front of you, and Dax competing with Aaron’s girlfriend over who gets to take care of him. Check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds: https://www.allstate.com/ See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Welcome to Mom's Car. I'm Dax Shepard.

• 0:02Speaker 01

  I'm BFAW.

• 0:03Dax Shepard?

  And today we have a very good friend of ours, Liz Plank. Of course, Liz, you know, what are you gonna say about her? She's a genius.

• 0:11Speaker 01

  She's adorable.

• 0:12Dax Shepard?

  She's adorable. Liz is a Canadian journalist, an author, a media personality. She has an incredible book called For the Love of Men, From Toxic to a More Mindful Masculinity, and a podcast that's also great called Boy Problems. And most importantly, she's just the funnest person to dance with. She's so, so smart and I love hashing out ideas with her. Please enjoy Liz Plank. This episode is brought to you by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking the dress code at the new restaurant, showing up in sandals and getting turned away at the door, no fun at all. Yeah, checking first is always a good move. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds.

• 0:55Dax Shepard?

  You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary, subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. We are supported by Uber Eats. Boom, boom, boom. In need of groceries? Uber Eats has you covered. From last minute ingredients to weekly essentials, get groceries delivered in as little as 25 minutes with Uber Eats.

• 1:16Dax Shepard?

  Get groceries delivered with Uber Eats. Terms apply. See app for details. Now, let's get into the show.

• 1:41Speaker 01

  And you're pretty tall.

• 1:42Speaker 02

  I'm pretty tall. I'm dating, he's six, seven.

• 1:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:45Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 1:46Speaker 02

  I swear.

• 1:46Dax Shepard?

  Hold on, hold on, hold on. Your boyfriend's six, seven?

• 1:49Speaker 02

  He is.

• 1:50Dax Shepard?

  What a stuff.

• 1:50Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 1:51Dax Shepard?

  Do you feel itsy bitsy when you're with him?

• 1:53Speaker 02

  And I never have felt that way, but he just walks into trees. Like, he'll just, we'll be at night, I'll be like, what's that? Like, I think it's a crumb, but it's like a branch. And he's like, oh, I just like that tree, like ceiling fans.

• 2:05Dax Shepard?

  Airplane buzz.

• 2:06Speaker 02

  Airplane, he can't, he can't do anything.

• 2:09Dax Shepard?

  So you're bringing me immediately to one of my first conversation topics, which is, I noticed the other day you had a post and it included him.

• 2:18Speaker 02

  It did, I know.

• 2:19Dax Shepard?

  And so I just had this whole 10 minute, like, not even in regards of interviewing you, but I was like, I didn't date in an era where you have a boyfriend, you've gotta decide when you're gonna first post.

• 2:29Speaker 02

  Well, you know the difference between a soft launch and a hard launch.

• 2:32Dax Shepard?

  No, and I knew you would know all this stuff because I missed it all and I wanna know everything about this. Like, this must be a stressful part of early dating.

• 2:40Speaker 02

  It is. You're tapping into something so real. Cause we had a fight. Like, I, about it. Did you have to go get the food?

• 2:47Speaker 01

  I do.

• 2:48Dax Shepard?

  I know, but Erin does. Erin gets the food and I deliver the food.

• 2:51Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, we split the duties.

• 2:52Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, go, I'll catch up when I get.

• 2:54Speaker 02

  Okay, I can keep talking.

• 2:56Speaker 01

  You guys have a great time.

• 2:57Speaker 02

  I did a soft launch.

• 2:59Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 3:00Speaker 02

  Which was just a story and his face was hidden.

• 3:02Dax Shepard?

  He's in the background, BG.

• 3:04Speaker 02

  He's, it's like a full body mirror. We were like at Goodwill and there was a full body, so I took a photo. And, or he took the photo, so the phone was hiding his face. And so I did that, but I didn't say much and he was very vague.

• 3:16Dax Shepard?

  But before you motor through.

• 3:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:18Dax Shepard?

  That, that decision probably came with some thought, right?

• 3:22Speaker 02

  It did, it did. Because I've been burnt, you know, burnt.

• 3:26Dax Shepard?

  Burnt.

• 3:26Speaker 02

  Burnt. I've been burnt. And I don't always have the best judgment.

• 3:31Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 3:31Speaker 02

  And so.

• 3:32Dax Shepard?

  That's what I like about you.

• 3:33Speaker 02

  Thanks.

• 3:33Dax Shepard?

  It's nor, nor I.

• 3:36Dax Shepard?

  People with good judgment can get fucking burnt. Who cares?

• 3:39Speaker 02

  Their lives are pretty boring.

• 3:40Dax Shepard?

  So boring.

• 3:41Speaker 02

  It has to be boring to always make the right decision. Um, so I soft, soft launched and then we had a, we had a fight.

• 3:46Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 3:47Speaker 02

  A couple of days later about, you know, something unrelated. And I was like upset about something. And so I was crying and then I stormed the room. I was like, I can't believe I soft launched you. I'm an idiot. And I walked out.

• 3:57Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so it's a real thing in a relationship. So you got in a fight and you're like, you regretted soft launching him. Cause you're nervous, like, we're gonna break up.

• 4:07Speaker 02

  We're gonna break up. And I've done this where I've introduced them to my fam- I mean, this is a very canon event for people dating right now.

• 4:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 4:14Speaker 02

  Because dating is so up and down.

• 4:16Dax Shepard?

  Explain that term. You just said canon event.

• 4:17Speaker 02

  A canon event is you, you tell all your friends about someone you're really excited about. Oop, there's a bike. Okay. And, you know, you know, oh, he's stopping for you.

• 4:26Dax Shepard?

  This is confusing.

• 4:27Speaker 01

  This is, oh shit.

• 4:29Dax Shepard?

  He's coming to get that Thai breakfast.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  By the way, this is not breakfast, it's drunken noodles.

• 4:34Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 4:35Speaker 02

  I mean, someone had a late night. Um, and so you introduce all, you tell everybody about them. I mean, I've done that with you guys, like, you know, you brought me on a date. Remember when you brought me on a date?

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  To a, to a date and it did not work out. So, so.

• 4:51Dax Shepard?

  By the way, and then that led to, earmark that, earmark that.

• 4:54Speaker 02

  But there's this fear that I'm gonna introduce this guy and I'm gonna look like an idiot. And so not only now.

• 4:59Dax Shepard?

  Embarrassment.

• 5:00Speaker 02

  Embarrassment, right, exactly. But it's funny because when I cried and I, and I left the room and I said that, he was like, I didn't understand how much of a big deal that was and like, I'm sorry. And then we had a whole conversation about that.

• 5:12Dax Shepard?

  Cause was it as big of a deal in his mind? No.

• 5:15Speaker 02

  No, exactly.

• 5:16Dax Shepard?

  Like, I'm assuming his business isn't tied in with his social media presence?

• 5:20Speaker 02

  Tag him. I'm afraid to like even, I don't know.

• 5:23Dax Shepard?

  But you have a different relationship with it, I'm assuming, cause it's part of your business.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  It is, but I've never posted a guy. I've really, I've never done this.

• 5:32Dax Shepard?

  So the stages are you'll definitely go on a double date with Kristen and I and, but you won't put it on Instagram.

• 5:39Speaker 02

  But you know what's funny? Can I tell you the truth?

• 5:41Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 5:42Speaker 02

  This is gonna sound like I'm just trying to blow, smoke up your ass, but it's, it's the truth.

• 5:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 5:46Speaker 02

  I have spent time with you and Kristen and you are like relationship goals for me. And like particularly like family goals. I think you have such a tremendous silly and tender way to love each other.

• 5:59Dax Shepard?

  Hmm, thank you.

• 6:00Speaker 02

  I told my boyfriend at the time, I was like, this is what I've always like wanted. Like someone who, yes, I'm attracted to and like we have amazing chemistry and all that stuff, but like a silly goofy time.

• 6:12Dax Shepard?

  Do you wanna play while you're on planet Earth? Like, that's the declaration. Like, would you like to play? And now we have kids and it's like, oh fuck, now I got two more people to play with.

• 6:20Speaker 02

  Yes, that's right.

• 6:21Dax Shepard?

  Cause I ain't only here to play.

• 6:23Speaker 02

  One hundred, this is all for fun.

• 6:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  Why aren't we not having fun? We were literally talking about this last night. That's so funny you say that. Yeah. It's so fun to find someone who has the same goal, which is like that this is all for fun. Like, we're all on a ride.

• 6:38Dax Shepard?

  We're all trying to stay busy till we're dead. I mean, literally, that's what's happening.

• 6:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, have the most amount of fun and laughs and giggles.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  It's so exciting when you realize you haven't been having fun for even weeks at a time and you're like, what am I doing? Like, I just wasted.

• 6:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:54Speaker 01

  All those weeks, like, it's not.

• 6:56Dax Shepard?

  I'm gonna be dead in 30 seconds.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Not this heavy.

• 6:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, do you ever think back at like times where you were trying to make someone the one, you know? Or again, you were like, or even with a friendship or not even just with a romantic connection, where you're like, oh, this wasn't fun. And like, I was trying to make it into something, it's, and it's not.

• 7:13Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. By the way, all love and respect, some people are very serious and that's what they enjoy.

• 7:19Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 7:19Dax Shepard?

  And, and yeah, that's great. And they can consternate it or whatever the word is. Yeah.

• 7:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:24Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so back to the, you've never shared a lover on social media.

• 7:28Speaker 02

  No.

• 7:29Dax Shepard?

  And then you have this little fight. And then how do we get from that moment to what I saw yesterday, which is like full blown face?

• 7:36Speaker 02

  No, there's no face.

• 7:37Dax Shepard?

  There's not?

• 7:38Speaker 02

  It's, that's why it's a soft launch.

• 7:40Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 7:40Speaker 02

  And not tagged. And hard launches when.

• 7:43Dax Shepard?

  Now I wanna like, now I want his handle. I would not want his handle, other than now I know no one can have it.

• 7:48Speaker 02

  No one can have it. Yeah. I mean, maybe, maybe, I don't think it has to earn it, but I, I wanna know, like, cause again, I've been burnt.

• 7:58Dax Shepard?

  When would you go full face with a tag? Are you engaged at that point? Really?

• 8:04Speaker 01

  Engaged, no.

• 8:05Dax Shepard?

  Oh, so what did you and Ruthie do? Cause Erin, I think Erin's got an interesting.

• 8:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:10Dax Shepard?

  Complexity to it, which is he's also divorced, right?

• 8:13Speaker 02

  Right.

• 8:14Dax Shepard?

  I don't know, doesn't that, I feel like that adds to it. Like, if you're blasting pictures of you and Ruthie before you're married and your ex-wife's like, huh, he's like, like, I don't know.

• 8:23Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, she, well, yeah, that did happen.

• 8:25Speaker 02

  When your ex-wife was mad.

• 8:27Dax Shepard?

  So she could look at Instagram and see that her ex-husband's now dating a woman that he's posting pictures of. Like, I don't have to consider that. Or if I were single.

• 8:37Speaker 02

  Right.

• 8:37Dax Shepard?

  Well, now I would, but you know what I'm saying. It's more complex.

• 8:41Speaker 01

  It did bring a complexity to it, cause, uh, yeah, kids, we have three kids. And, and they were, of course, younger, six years ago, five years ago. And yeah, I did blast, uh, well.

• 8:52Dax Shepard?

  My, I did you quick.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  Not only did I blast off right away, um, Ruthie blasted off right away too.

• 9:00Dax Shepard?

  Okay, yeah.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  And, um, we were very excited.

• 9:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. So it's a quick, hard, fast launch. What's the opposite of your slow launch? Or you're calling it a soft launch?

• 9:08Speaker 02

  Soft launch.

• 9:09Dax Shepard?

  So hard launch?

• 9:10Speaker 02

  Hard launches face, like tagging, you know? But, but so, what's the conversation you have with your ex-wife about hard launching or like, you know? Hard launching with a new.

• 9:22Speaker 01

  Well, I.

• 9:23Dax Shepard?

  Blah, blah, blast off.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  I took it right to the level of, I said, I'm having my new girlfriend of two weeks.

• 9:33Speaker 01

  I haven't met in person. No, we did meet in person. I take that back. And it was a couple of months. I said, she's coming over and it was COVID and um.

• 9:43Dax Shepard?

  She was flying into town from California.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I'm like, she's coming to stay with me. And my thought was, cool, my kids get to meet someone fun. Like, I didn't take it as serious as maybe it was taken on the other end.

• 9:55Speaker 02

  Okay, okay.

• 9:56Speaker 01

  So I had to look at it from her perspective. I'm like.

• 10:00Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, she hadn't only known a dude for a.

• 10:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I'm like, well, like an asshole. I'm like, well, it's different with guys.

• 10:06Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. Why?

• 10:07Dax Shepard?

  That's fair. Um, that's fair. I think a new guy is more threatening to children than a new woman. Historically, statistically.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:16Dax Shepard?

  Pedophilia wise.

• 10:18Speaker 02

  Risk, the risk. Sure.

• 10:19Dax Shepard?

  He has daughters.

• 10:20Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 10:21Dax Shepard?

  If we're just looking at odds wise, do we think a boyfriend is going to abuse a child versus a girlfriend? I got unfortunately, it's probably 12 to one.

• 10:29Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, probably more. Yeah, yeah. It's totally right. That's totally right. That's totally right.

• 10:32Dax Shepard?

  That's, that's interesting.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That there's.

• 10:35Dax Shepard?

  That's real.

• 10:35Speaker 02

  Yes, that there needs almost to be more of a vetting.

• 10:38Dax Shepard?

  Another unfair thing for women.

• 10:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 10:40Dax Shepard?

  Yet another.

• 10:41Speaker 02

  Right. It's hard. Cause I dated someone who was divorced with two girls. Um, and it was a big deal about, you know, meeting them. And I never ended up meeting them, you know, we dated for like almost two years. Cause it was so for them to meet a new woman, actually, because they're, because they're girls. I think the gender even of the kids also.

• 10:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. If he had had two boys, it might've been different for some reason. Yeah.

• 11:03Speaker 02

  That they would be harder, you know, it's, it's every like romantic comedy from the nineties, like, you know, the evil sort of step mom, right? Like that the girls feel in competition with or, you know.

• 11:14Dax Shepard?

  Or start modeling their dress and behavior after another woman. You're the mom. That's, that's threatening. Yeah.

• 11:21Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 11:22Dax Shepard?

  I think in that situation, I would be like, you don't really have a say in whether or not I have someone visit me for a week. You clearly have a say over whether the children are there.

• 11:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:32Dax Shepard?

  So I would have said like, yeah, if you don't want the kids to be around during that week, I understand. But also I, I, I am entitled to meet someone and move on and have this week with somebody.

• 11:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that's the right.

• 11:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, that is the right move. I just, uh, I'm prone to jump in the gun.

• 11:47Dax Shepard?

  I would say if Aaron's most dangerous character defect is impatience at the very top of it.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm afraid it's not gonna happen if it doesn't happen now.

• 11:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:57Dax Shepard?

  And like even purchases in life and stuff. Like anytime he says he's gonna go look at a motorcycle. I'm like, oh, in 20 minutes, he's gonna call me while he's riding the motorcycle. I don't think you've ever gone and looked at something not lucky.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  I haven't. I've never been more confused in my entire existence. Something else up?

• 12:15Dax Shepard?

  I was and I'm like, no, it says I'm delivering a little thing. She's like, I didn't order anything. It takes me five minutes to realize, no, I'm there to pick that up.

• 12:23Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 12:24Dax Shepard?

  Now, how are other people? Cause you're so dialed into young people and what's happening? I know, I'm not, I mean, that's serious. You are. Like when I read your post, I'm like, I, I'm educated every time I read one of your posts on what's going on. How are other people that are dating feeling about this? Like when, is there a standard when you post, when you don't post? Cause it is embarrassing. I would imagine if I, and then I'll go even further. It adds yet another stressful layer, which is like, when do you say I love you? When are you introducing someone as a girlfriend or a boyfriend?

• 12:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:53Dax Shepard?

  And now on top of it, it's like, why aren't I ever in any of your photos?

• 12:56Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 12:57Dax Shepard?

  Like you have all your friends in it. You have that girl. You're not even dating her. And so when I imagine myself in the situation, and this might be anecdotal and specific to me, but I've always felt like the person wanted to declare stuff sooner.

• 13:10Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. Then you wanted to.

• 13:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I just am very much like, let's, you know, let's not love addict out and go nuts. And then there's nothing left in, in, in three months. So I don't know. I, I think I would be really, I think I would fucking quit. Social media if I was dating. I don't want to be hurting someone's feelings because they're not in a photo.

• 13:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 13:28Dax Shepard?

  So what's standard? Is, are there standards?

• 13:30Speaker 02

  It's so funny you say that, cause it's making me realize why I have been so reluctant to do it. Is that I, I, when I first moved to the US, um, I moved with a, with a guy. That's why I live here. I'm Canadian. So when I say I've never posted anybody, I would post him because it was early Instagram when like, no, it was your friends. It wasn't like a public display and people weren't as much like, I don't know. We, we weren't as wrapped up in each other's like digital lives. It was like, real life was more important.

• 13:56Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 13:57Speaker 02

  And now I think there's this weird reversal, but um.

• 13:59Dax Shepard?

  We're living for the digital life. Yeah.

• 14:02Speaker 02

  It, it's really, anyway.

• 14:03Dax Shepard?

  Insidious.

• 14:04Speaker 02

  Yeah. Very, very pernicious and weird. Um, but basically I would post photos of him and us and like, just, you know, casually without thinking much about it.

• 14:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 14:14Speaker 02

  Which like, oh my God, I wish we could go back to those days, just when you would post on Instagram and like not think a million times about what people would say that you've done wrong, left out, like whatever.

• 14:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 14:24Speaker 02

  Um, and so I would post him and he would complain. I mean, this was a very, very abusive, toxic and abusive relationship. He ended up, um, he just got into a program. Uh, it took him like 12 years, but uh, while we were together, there was no recognition of his drinking problem. But anyway, there were just a lot of issues in the relationship, very controlling and uh, so it, it, but it came out in that way where he would be saying, I post photos where his neck was too small. Like he didn't look big enough.

• 14:51Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 14:52Speaker 02

  And, and I would be like, okay, I'll take it down.

• 14:56Dax Shepard?

  That's kind on you.

• 15:00Speaker 02

  Which I'd be like, okay. And, but then he would insist that I would post too much about work. I would, I'd post about work more than I was posting about him.

• 15:07Dax Shepard?

  Ah, so he was very threatened by your career aspirations.

• 15:10Speaker 02

  There we go. You nailed it. And so, and that was the, the gist of all, a lot of other toxic thing that happened.

• 15:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 15:16Speaker 02

  But it was this source of sort of stress.

• 15:18Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 15:18Speaker 02

  And so I didn't, yeah, after that, I was like, I don't want to. And then when we broke up, I will say I was a little, maybe embarrassed is the word. Uh, I think, and this is a bold claim.

• 15:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 15:30Speaker 02

  Tell me if I'm.

• 15:31Dax Shepard?

  This is the place for bold claims.

• 15:33Speaker 02

  Okay, perfect.

• 15:33Dax Shepard?

  Very few people watch.

• 15:34Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 15:41Dax Shepard?

  If you've ever killed somebody, this is the place.

• 15:45Speaker 02

  So I think when you're dating a man, you're either gonna become his wife or his ex-girlfriend, right? Like, and I think that it tends to be more embarrassing to be someone's ex-girlfriend than it is to be someone's ex-boyfriend. Like I think that women are embarrassed by a larger portion of people that they've dated than like men. Where like men would be like, oh yeah, I dated her and like, even things didn't work out.

• 16:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I think societally, historically, there's been that you can't keep a man. That's a very well-worn, you know, cliche. I don't hear a lot of you can't keep a woman's. No.

• 16:20Speaker 02

  Very.

• 16:21Dax Shepard?

  There's no get me a wife apple pie. There's a catch me a husband apple pie. So yeah, I do think there's this like implicit, can you keep a man?

• 16:29Speaker 02

  Yeah. And that it's your fault.

• 16:31Dax Shepard?

  And then you couple in probably as well, the um, expectations that you should only be dating for marriage.

• 16:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:39Dax Shepard?

  And then if you're having casual things, that also makes you a slut. So I do think there's a lot in the soup.

• 16:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:45Dax Shepard?

  In our circle, that's bragging rights. A dude who's had like 20 hot girlfriends in the last year and a half. You're like, well, this guy's got some secret I need to learn.

• 16:53Speaker 02

  Yes. And it increases his like value in a way, like women do that. Well, they'll, you'll be like, oh, he dated this woman. So he must be, you know, and so.

• 17:01Dax Shepard?

  I've been riding on that for years. Yeah. I got Sasha Crossit in sixth grade and it's like, it just led to another.

• 17:07Speaker 01

  Talk about the people he's dated.

• 17:10Speaker 02

  Was it like, did he give him street cred? For sure. For sure.

• 17:14Dax Shepard?

  Dude, I really felt that in high school. Cause in ninth and 10th grade, I was persona non grata. I was like so tall and skinny, huge nose, brand new high school, out of a different school district, nothing going on. And then randomly this girl, Jody Pizzos, rest in peace, she liked me and she was kind of the number one gal in our grade. And then after that, the door was wide open to me. Yes.

• 17:34Speaker 02

  That'll do it. And because he had been honestly, uh, you know, abusive, I was like, oh my God, I don't want people to know. I, I hate that uh, people know that I've dated him, even not even publicly, just like within the grapevine.

• 17:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 17:46Speaker 02

  Because then a woman might start dating him and think he's great because, you know, she thinks.

• 17:51Dax Shepard?

  You co-signed on him.

• 17:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's like you've co-signed him and then there's this fear of like, well, then, you know, that's why I think women particularly might be afraid to co-sign. Also, okay, there's another thing.

• 18:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 18:02Speaker 02

  If you tag him and all these women are now like, oh my God, this great guy, y'all, these photos of him bringing you matcha and working out with you. And, and then you break up, then all these women are gonna now try and date him. And like, you've sort of, again, you've made him hotter by being with him. And then if you break up, like now.

• 18:22Dax Shepard?

  Okay, but now here's another fun, interesting, like, yeah, if you break up, why do you give a fuck who dates them?

• 18:28Speaker 02

  You're able to do that?

• 18:29Speaker 01

  You don't want to.

• 18:30Dax Shepard?

  God, yes. I'm praying. I'm praying any ex-girlfriend of mine immediately finds love.

• 18:35Speaker 02

  Really?

• 18:36Dax Shepard?

  Absolutely. I'm feeling sad, probably bad that we broke up.

• 18:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 18:40Dax Shepard?

  When Bree and I broke up, I was more concerned about her finding love than me ever finding love.

• 18:45Speaker 02

  Really?

• 18:45Dax Shepard?

  Oh God, yes. I'm like, man, we were together for nine years.

• 18:48Speaker 02

  Why do you think that that is?

• 18:50Dax Shepard?

  Because I love the person or I cared about the person. And you know, often that person wanted to be in a more.

• 18:56Speaker 01

  Kitchen. Are we, I'm sorry.

• 18:57Dax Shepard?

  Oh man, this is a mess. This is a big time mess.

• 19:01Speaker 01

  Pick up another order.

• 19:03Dax Shepard?

  Jesus fucking Christ. Where did it go?

• 19:08Dax Shepard?

  I did my best stuff in front of Liz. I was telling Aaron the other day, that's how I farted in front of the first time we met.

• 19:14Speaker 02

  I felt so honored. That was like one of the greatest moments.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  You should have.

• 19:19Speaker 02

  Well, it's like when your partner farts in front of you. I've been begging my boyfriend to fart. Every time I hear a little thing, I'm like, did you fart? He's like, no. And I'm like, when are you gonna do it?

• 19:28Dax Shepard?

  You would not have to beg Aaron or.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  No.

• 19:31Speaker 02

  I hope you guys fart tonight.

• 19:32Speaker 01

  We will.

• 19:36Dax Shepard?

  Stay tuned for more Mom's Car. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking your bag one more time before you hit the road. You packed two days early. You were proud of yourself. You get to the hotel, open your bag and you forgot your toothbrush and your deodorant. Yeah. Checking first is an excellent idea. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary, subject to terms, conditions and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois.

• 20:16Dax Shepard?

  He picks up, I deliver.

• 20:17Speaker 02

  Right.

• 20:18Dax Shepard?

  And as you saw, it didn't go so well when I delivered. I promised I've had better luck.

• 20:22Speaker 02

  What has been like the craziest way someone has reacted?

• 20:24Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you know, I never see anybody. I mean, those ladies in that store definitely knew who I was. So they're, they're double confused because I'm trying to give them food. They didn't order. I'm supposed to be picking something up and they notice me. And so they know something kinky is go weird is going on.

• 20:39Speaker 02

  They're about to get punked.

• 20:40Dax Shepard?

  So none of us can figure out what's happening. Yeah, because they're a little bit of the story, but that's an anomaly generally because I deliver. It's almost always leave a door.

• 20:49Speaker 02

  Right.

• 20:50Dax Shepard?

  Okay. So we back to standard, what are, what are other people feeling like? And what are younger people doing? How long are they waiting?

• 20:57Speaker 02

  I saw a post, a TikTok a couple of days ago, and this woman basically was arguing to never post your boyfriend.

• 21:03Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 21:04Speaker 02

  She was like, never post him. He's going to get clout. He's, girls are going to like him more. You're, it's just like their only downsides. But I think that men are on better terms with their exes than women are in terms of their exes. Like, I will say, I, I think a lot of my exes would say like, she's a great girl. Like she's great. And I kind of have other feedback.

• 21:25Dax Shepard?

  It sounds exhausting, Liz.

• 21:27Speaker 02

  I know. And maybe, and it's because I've, oh, I've also, I have a bad picker. I think women in general like projects more than maybe men do when they're dating. Like, I think a man will meet a woman, be like, it's either like a hell yes or a hell no. And they'll kind of know right away and women will kind of keep going and try and find or fix certain things.

• 21:47Dax Shepard?

  Right. Or have the, the fantasy that they will turn them into the person they wanted.

• 21:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 21:52Speaker 01

  What do you got here?

• 21:53Dax Shepard?

  Night. Yeah, I don't even know what I'm taking.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  Let's see.

• 21:55Dax Shepard?

  Okay, that's that little bag I picked up.

• 21:57Speaker 01

  It's a little bag.

• 21:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. What are your thoughts? You've had Gen Z guests.

• 22:00Dax Shepard?

  I try my hardest to resist saying they're this or that. Because I think what you're really seeing is like, it'd be easy to let a very small number of people that are very active on social media inform what's going on. And then I'm around in Nashville and I'm looking at young people. I'm like, they don't reflect at all what I'm seeing. This was actually another topic I wanted to talk about with you. I feel like you're perfect to ask about. This is where I am over, I can tell I'm overreacting. But with that said, you know, there's these headlines now, you know, is it embarrassing to have a boyfriend?

• 22:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:31Dax Shepard?

  There seems to be like this very, to me, concerning movement that is masquerading as feminism. That is like to be empowered is to not want a man.

• 22:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:44Dax Shepard?

  And that scares the fuck out of me. Like, I really think like, oh, when the last of us are dying out of extinction, we try to trace back, how did this happen?

• 22:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:52Dax Shepard?

  I feel like we're at this point where we're so focused on the political polarization, but I think there's massive gender polarization right now. And I do find it concerning. And even me saying it's concerning to me, like when I'm talking with Monica, she's angry about that, that I think like, oh, so every woman's got to get married and have kids. I'm like, no, I'm not saying that, but I am saying we were designed to live a certain way, which is not alone.

• 23:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:17Dax Shepard?

  Um, we're not solitary animals. And this just to me looks like more and more solitary living and, and I, I, it scares me. So, yeah, do you think this is a real thing?

• 23:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, I've been single for a really long time and I wasn't happy single. And, and I didn't relate to some of the content, uh, online, which is like, you don't need a man and invest in cats and female friendships. Like, as much as that's wonderful, like I really wanted a relationship. I, and so when we talked about that, it did make me like reflect on that ideal and, and, and whether it really was an ideal that I was seeking and if that was a, a good ideal for us as a society.

• 23:57Dax Shepard?

  We're often only looking at one side of the equation, which is, it's like, does, does a woman need a man? Yes. Does a man need a woman? Yes. Like the bottom line is men benefit so greatly from having a female they're committed to.

• 24:10Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 24:10Dax Shepard?

  It brings out much better sides of them.

• 24:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:13Dax Shepard?

  They can learn so many things from women.

• 24:16Speaker 02

  And this is a discourse out there, right? Like that the ROI for men dating women is high.

• 24:22Dax Shepard?

  The what?

• 24:22Speaker 02

  The ROI.

• 24:23Dax Shepard?

  Oh, return on investment.

• 24:25Speaker 02

  You know, men will have more social relationships. They'll be healthier.

• 24:28Dax Shepard?

  They'll live longer.

• 24:29Speaker 02

  Like there's ultimate benefits.

• 24:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 24:31Speaker 02

  And for women, the ROI is not as good. Like that women don't, actually like the healthiest, you know, sort of demographic of people are, are unmarried women. They, they actually will live longer. They'll have more time for their social relationships. They'll spend less time working and doing domestic work. For me anyways, both are true. Yes, I want a relationship. Yes, I want to be with a partner. I don't want to be alone scrolling on my fucking phone on Netflix. And I'm allergic to cats. Anyways, I can't have cats. And, and I also don't want to be with a guy who's going to make my life shit. Right? Like this first guy I'm talking about that like ruins my life and is controlling and jealous. And so I think what's happening is what's always happened throughout history is that like,

• 25:11Speaker 02

  women are weeding out the good guys. Like they are like, I don't want to be with a guy who's not going to improve my life. And unfortunately, I think that is very unsettling because I'm not sure that has ever really happened in our lifetime.

• 25:26Dax Shepard?

  Correct. And, and we know we can chart out where that goes quite pretty easily. And we can model that out pretty easily where, where that goes.

• 25:33Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 25:34Dax Shepard?

  That goes to the death of our, which might be fine.

• 25:37Speaker 02

  Well, if you think about it, that's what women have always done because women didn't reproduce with all men. They reproduce with a small subset of them, right? Like I think it's sixty to whatever, right?

• 25:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 25:46Speaker 02

  And so.

• 25:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, very few people had access.

• 25:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, because women are choosy and that's why we got better as a species. And like, that's why we, we evolved in the way that we evolved. Again, I would like to think that what's happening right now, if we don't go in the dark version of it, which is like, men are shit and like, men are, don't even, you know, be in a relationship with any guy. Unless that's what you want to do and that's fine.

• 26:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 26:08Speaker 02

  Like, I, I think if it's actually the middle of that, you know, and both those things being true, that sort of leads us to, I mean, in my opinion, like ultimate wellbeing, you know, that like men are improving to get chosen, right? Like, like you want to get chosen, so you're going to brush your hair. You're going to shower. You're going to have a nice apartment and get a bed sheet and two pillows. Yeah.

• 26:31Dax Shepard?

  True.

• 26:31Speaker 02

  You know, and then, but like, don't be mad at women because we're choosy. Because like, that's how we all improve and that's how we all got here, you know? But when you said that a couple of years ago, like it did make me connect with this hardwired, yeah, like, like it's like oxygen. You know, like connection and building something with someone, it's a very old biological need and, and sort of desire.

• 26:55Dax Shepard?

  And then you just get into, and you can almost not have this conversation because any time you bring it up, it's somehow baby shaming. But if you want to have a child, there's, you know, overwhelming data on what's the best scenario for a child to grow up. And it's, it is to, not, it's not to say a single mom or dad can't do a great job. They can. But the overwhelming, you know, data says that it's best done with two people. And that experience, I've had them all. That's the thing. I've had all the great experiences. I've gotten to be famous. I've gotten to have money. I've gotten to meet all the famous people. I've, you know, traveled the world. None of them even compares to these, this experience

• 27:39Dax Shepard?

  of getting to give everything I've acquired to other human beings, which are our children.

• 27:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:45Dax Shepard?

  That experience for me, if I had to pick on my deathbed, what I missed, I would definitely miss being famous, miss being successful, miss being anything. I would hold on to that would be the last thing I would ever let go of. It's such a special experience. And it's so suspiciously satisfying that what it tells me is like, oh yeah, it's me doing the thing I was designed to do, which is reproduce. Like all animals, take us out of it. All animals have singular jobs. It's like to stay alive to reproduce.

• 28:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:16Dax Shepard?

  So it's just, it's kind of weird how much biology we have that kicks in. Once you start having your offspring and it's like, it becomes quite obvious like, oh yeah, minimally, this is what I was designed to do. It's my only purpose here, you know? So then how do we get there with this other trend? And maybe that's how it is and I got to accept it. Like if the ROI for women is lower, then I, I understand.

• 28:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:39Dax Shepard?

  Then don't do it. And then, but if we're measuring the quality of your life by whether you live point one or two years less or more versus, um, the experience while you were here. And I, I can only speak for observing my wife.

• 28:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:54Dax Shepard?

  She feels the exact same way as I do about this child thing. She would give up a million frozen to have this experience. So that's got to somehow make its way into the ROI. You know, the evaluation of the return on the investment.

• 29:05Speaker 02

  For sure. And here's the, the thing, right? You said, uh, studies are just generally two people is better than one, right? Like two people raising a child is going to be a better experience.

• 29:15Dax Shepard?

  We should be raised by 12 people.

• 29:16Speaker 02

  Well, that's what I was going to say. In the paleo ethic era, it was 12 people.

• 29:20Dax Shepard?

  Yes. And that's what we should do.

• 29:22Speaker 02

  That's what we should do.

• 29:23Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 29:23Speaker 02

  You know, because I get up early, I, I go and write in coffee shops and I'll often notice it's, it's, it's often moms. Okay. That are in coffee. It's, it's writers and moms.

• 29:32Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 29:32Speaker 02

  And they'll be there with their toddler. They're tired and the toddler will be walking around and everyone's sort of entertaining the kid. Okay. If you're in a good situation and it'll be like, hey. And the mom is just tired. I want her to have her phone time. I want her to get a break. And I'm like, oh, this is what it used to be like.

• 29:47Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 29:47Speaker 02

  Like, like she didn't take care of the human being from morning to night for the next, right? 10 years while being, having a job, while doing whatever. And so I think that we have to make motherhood more collective.

• 29:58Dax Shepard?

  A thousand percent. A thousand.

• 30:01Speaker 02

  And then women will want to do it.

• 30:02Dax Shepard?

  And that's why the ROI sucks for women because we stopped doing it as a team.

• 30:07Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 30:07Dax Shepard?

  But again, I agree with you a thousand percent and we're charting it. So, okay, we started as it took, you needed at least 40 other people around you just to survive. Then the agricultural revolution happened and now you really only needed your extended family to subsist.

• 30:20Speaker 02

  Right.

• 30:21Dax Shepard?

  So now we were down to 10 people.

• 30:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:23Dax Shepard?

  And then the industrial revolution happened and now we're in single family houses and you only need the immediate family. And now the tech revolution, now only one, it only takes one person to survive. And so that trajectory has not been good for us.

• 30:35Speaker 02

  I agree. I wholeheartedly agree.

• 30:37Dax Shepard?

  So it's like, I don't know how we go back to 12 people raising the kid, but I know going even further down to less people.

• 30:43Speaker 02

  Agreed.

• 30:43Dax Shepard?

  We need to have been designed differently for that to feel good.

• 30:45Speaker 02

  I totally agree.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  She's standing outside, by the way. She got it in time for lunch. She kind of knew.

• 30:50Dax Shepard?

  I guess she knew.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:51Dax Shepard?

  Do we have more stuff? We do.

• 30:52Speaker 01

  We got one more.

• 30:53Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  But no, I love where we arrived. Oh, I just love this because it's like, this never happens.

• 30:58Dax Shepard?

  But, but again, now, now then I zoom out.

• 31:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:01Dax Shepard?

  And I also think I might be completely over inflating the issue. I mean, A, we do, we do see that the birth rate is dropping dramatically.

• 31:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:10Dax Shepard?

  But what's interesting about that and a bit misleading, which was comforting. And that's, that is true for all Western democratized industrial nations that the birth rate falls. Again, you don't need a bunch of family members to work the farms. Naturally, it's going to fall. This huge spike we're seeing in the decline is really driven by an enormous drop in the teen pregnancy rate.

• 31:31Speaker 02

  Right.

• 31:31Dax Shepard?

  Which is fantastic. That's really what we're seeing.

• 31:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:35Dax Shepard?

  We don't really know, have we leveled out or are we still declining just, you know, once people are in their twenties? And I'm praying that that's the case, right?

• 31:44Speaker 02

  Unfortunately, I'm here to tell you, it just hit this week, I think. There was gonna be a majority of young women, not teenagers, like twenties and thirties, who will be now child free. It'll be the majority of young women.

• 31:54Dax Shepard?

  Okay, and again, and that's

• 31:56Speaker 02

  In twenty thirty.

• 31:56Dax Shepard?

  So that's scary again for me, right out of the, just on face value. But then you gotta consider, well, we also have a new technology in the mix, which is you can freeze. So you can delay that.

• 32:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:07Dax Shepard?

  And are we only seeing that? So we'll just see an explosion in our thirties we never saw that will offset the decline in our twenties?

• 32:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:14Dax Shepard?

  Maybe. I mean, I know it's an expensive endeavor.

• 32:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:17Dax Shepard?

  Currently.

• 32:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, people can't afford it. It's, I mean, it's, right, like even AOC.

• 32:21Dax Shepard?

  But more and more women are professional, you know, the college, you know, all the male studies. It's abysmal.

• 32:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 32:27Dax Shepard?

  They're not in college, you know, women are in college, they are making more money, they are getting increasingly able to freeze their eggs and do these things.

• 32:34Speaker 02

  Yes, that's true. And here's like my thing, like Dax, like I wanted kids like so badly.

• 32:39Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 32:39Speaker 02

  And last year especially, I was thirty eight, you know, froze the eggs, I had the whole thing and I was getting really close to forty. Now I'm getting forty in like six months, but I thought I met the guy.

• 32:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 32:49Speaker 02

  And he really, really, really wasn't, um, he deceived the whole thing and it was, basically was like, we're gonna be, we're gonna have kids, you're gonna move in. And then he was like, actually, I want an open relationship, you know, just like fucking like East Side LA hipster shit.

• 33:02Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 33:02Speaker 02

  And after that, I just was like, maybe I'm not gonna have kids in this particular environment.

• 33:08Dax Shepard?

  Sure.

• 33:09Speaker 02

  Ten years ago, I would have, I would have done it. And yeah, like, am I, I guess I don't even have a point. I'm just, is that bad?

• 33:15Dax Shepard?

  So I think this new awareness is healthy and yes, women have been subjugated and yes, the ROI has been bad. But what I think it has led to is a little bit of hyper scrutiny of who they're gonna date. I do think people are looking for the perfect person.

• 33:31Speaker 02

  Well, for sure.

• 33:31Dax Shepard?

  Two things about that. A, the perfect person doesn't exist.

• 33:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:34Dax Shepard?

  B, if you think the person's perfect when you meet them, there is a single direction this is, this can go.

• 33:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 33:43Dax Shepard?

  They can only get less and less perfect.

• 33:44Speaker 02

  Right.

• 33:45Dax Shepard?

  Like I met Kristen, she was a vegetarian who did communal living and was a Christian who believed in Jesus and went on to raise her kids with the Bible. Those are fucking deal breakers for me.

• 33:55Speaker 02

  Right.

• 33:56Dax Shepard?

  Um, not being a vegetarian, but just like, that's incompatible with what I wanna go out to eat and blah, blah, blah.

• 34:01Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 34:02Dax Shepard?

  She's living with twelve people.

• 34:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:03Dax Shepard?

  And I'm like, I don't wanna live with twelve people. Like, there's numerous things that were, um, not preferred in Kristen.

• 34:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:11Dax Shepard?

  And through growing together and towards each other.

• 34:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:15Dax Shepard?

  I like her way more now, nineteen years in than I did when I met her. And what a better trajectory. Like leave some places to grow.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 34:25Dax Shepard?

  And guess what? You're not fucking perfect. The arrogance of that you need someone perfect. Who the fuck is perfect to say that they deserve someone perfect?

• 34:33Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 34:34Dax Shepard?

  And by the way, I'm a dude that when she met, I'm jumping out at stoplights and fighting a guy once a month.

• 34:39Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 34:40Dax Shepard?

  She doesn't want that. She deserved better than that.

• 34:44Speaker 02

  Right.

• 34:44Dax Shepard?

  I had only been in an open relationship.

• 34:46Speaker 02

  Right.

• 34:47Dax Shepard?

  That's, you know, by today's standards, that, girl, no way, you know, on the internet, they'd be like, run, this guy's violent and aggressive and he's fucking all the time. And guess what? We're way more the people we wanted over time.

• 35:02Speaker 02

  I think that that is definitely going on. I, I think it's this over, you know, particularly since COVID, again, people are just spending more time alone and they're spending too much time thinking and not enough time doing.

• 35:11Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 35:12Speaker 02

  You know, a lot of times self improving instead of just be, the best way to improve yourself, as you point out, is to be in a relationship. And I do think we are trying to be the perfect partner and I had that. I mean, when I started dating my, my boyfriend, like, I would call my friends who are married, not my, not my single friends, because I know what advice I'm gonna get from my single friend. He's doing that?

• 35:33Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 35:33Speaker 02

  Oh, that's toxic and that's, and then my married friends are like, let me tell you. Like, like, you know, this is a, I, we've had this fight a hundred times.

• 35:41Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 35:41Speaker 02

  And being in a relationship is hard and it's amazing, but like if you are entering a relationship thinking, yeah, you're gonna find the perfect partner and you're the perfect person, it's actually gonna show you a lot of places, if you're doing it right, it's gonna actually show you the places you need to grow. But that, yeah, requires discomfort, it requires, uh, vulnerability and I think that those things are on the down, you know? Yeah, it's a weird environment.

• 36:07Dax Shepard?

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• 36:50Dax Shepard?

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• 37:03Dax Shepard?

  Let me deliver this real quick, this is so yummy.

• 37:05Speaker 01

  I liked what you guys said, when you said the ROI on the women and the return isn't as much. I was like, oh my gosh, and I'm like, yeah, I can see that.

• 37:14Speaker 02

  How did dating Ruthie improve your life?

• 37:16Speaker 01

  She is so much like Dax. That, um,

• 37:24Speaker 01

  yeah, like he knows this. I was like, there's no way I found a female version of Dax and it's not that insane, but it, but it.

• 37:33Speaker 02

  No, I said the same thing about my boyfriend.

• 37:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:35Speaker 02

  I was like, he's female, my best friend.

• 37:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:38Speaker 02

  They're so similar, that's so funny.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:41Speaker 02

  Because you are my best friend, you do.

• 37:43Speaker 01

  And guess what? Ruthie makes my life better every day because she doesn't, oh, she does tell me how it is.

• 37:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:51Speaker 01

  Um, and I'm still very standoffish about that.

• 37:54Speaker 02

  You are. Wait, tell me more about that. I feel like guys, they wanna be challenged with them, when you challenge them, they get mad.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm really bad at it. What I'm good at now, though, is coming around very quickly and apologizing and meaning it.

• 38:06Speaker 02

  I think women get triggered in so many ways, like.

• 38:09Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 38:09Speaker 02

  But I do think men, there's a, it's almost like you feel caught off guard.

• 38:13Speaker 01

  I feel embarrassed.

• 38:15Speaker 02

  Embarrassed, yeah.

• 38:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're talking about Ruthie. I said, um, that she's a lot like you in a lot of ways.

• 38:23Speaker 01

  In the way that my life improves by being around both of you. And you both say things to me that you're sincerely trying to better my life, or maybe just putting something else out there, like, oh, well, maybe. Um, and you're both so delicate with me because that's how I need to be treated. But I just sense that, boy, I love you. But I still am standoffish.

• 38:46Dax Shepard?

  Ruthie and I's first tension was we went into a gas station and both of us were getting the stuff we know Aaron likes.

• 38:54Dax Shepard?

  It was on a road, a road trip up north. And then we were both like, we're gonna figure out who's taking care of Aaron this weekend.

• 39:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, like I love to nurture and care for Aaron, like more than anything, and so does she.

• 39:09Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 39:11Speaker 01

  I was like, oh my God, look at these two.

• 39:15Dax Shepard?

  She's like, are you the girlfriend or am I the girlfriend?

• 39:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's.

• 39:18Dax Shepard?

  My aunt, I kinda been the girlfriend for a long time.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  I was like, wait, who do I have sex with?

• 39:25Dax Shepard?

  One will leave me very sore and the other won't. What should I do? Well, let me also say, like, dude, men are terrible.

• 39:33Speaker 02

  Well, that's the thing.

• 39:34Dax Shepard?

  We're terrible, we're both terrible in different ways. And I can own how we're terrible.

• 39:39Speaker 02

  Terrible and, and, but I don't think women are as much of a threat to men that men are a threat to women.

• 39:43Dax Shepard?

  That's totally fair.

• 39:45Speaker 02

  And, and I think that's what makes it really challenging. And, and I'll say like, after that happened to me last year, I got ruthless with dating. Where first sign of a weird thing, you know, not in a rude way, but I just cut things off really quickly.

• 39:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 40:00Speaker 02

  And in a way, I think I met this amazing guy that I'm dating now, who's truly like, feels like soulmate level. Like even though it's only been three months, I'm like, we are, it's, it's like what Aaron said, actually, he was like, Ruthie's a lot like Dax. I was like, oh, that's what I said about my boyfriend, I was like, oh, you remind me of like my best friend.

• 40:18Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 40:18Speaker 02

  Like female version.

• 40:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 40:20Speaker 02

  And so I, I, I feel so lucky to be with a man who's amazing and I think it was because I did own my part. And my sponsor did, like, I'm in program, like, she was like, pray for him. And I was like, pray for him?

• 40:35Speaker 02

  And she, you know, so I have been working on my part and I think you are right. I, I, I think both things are right. I think it's hard when women are told, why aren't you finding a guy? Why aren't you getting married? But also all men are terrible. And then you're like, well, which one is it, right? And how do I, how do I do it? You know, it's hard.

• 40:52Dax Shepard?

  But look, all men are terrible, not for us, right? Like it doesn't bother us.

• 40:57Speaker 02

  To say that.

• 40:58Dax Shepard?

  Our terribleness isn't bother us when we're together. Men are troubled by each other's terribleness, right?

• 41:04Speaker 02

  And maybe that's.

• 41:05Dax Shepard?

  And equally, women are terrible. And your terribleness is not, you guys don't, you're not annoyed by your terribleness within your gender.

• 41:12Speaker 02

  Sure, that's, yeah.

• 41:13Dax Shepard?

  So we gotta make it work. That's the other thing is like, I don't think anyone walks into it with an appropriate expectation of what this is. Like, we're pretty different.

• 41:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:22Dax Shepard?

  And we're gonna try to make this thing work.

• 41:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 41:24Dax Shepard?

  And that's gonna be hard.

• 41:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:26Dax Shepard?

  You know?

• 41:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:27Dax Shepard?

  That's gonna be tricky.

• 41:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:29Dax Shepard?

  But no, they're terrible. Like, we were watching this great comedy that's not out yet, this new Jake Johnson, Dakota Fanning.

• 41:35Speaker 02

  Wait, what?

• 41:36Dax Shepard?

  It's so good, it's so good. You're gonna fucking love it. It's called The Sun Never Sets. And it's like an older guy dating a younger woman and he already has kids and he's saying, you know, just so you know, I'm not gonna have kids. He's always been upfront, they're not gonna have kids, I'm not gonna get remarried.

• 41:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:49Dax Shepard?

  And then he can tell she's really starting to want that and she's got a friend who's pregnant and he's like, look, I love you, I would do this forever, but I think you need to take the summer and see if you can find the thing you want. Right? And on the surface, like, it's great, it tricks you. I'm like, yeah, this guy's being very generous, but he thinks he's certain she's gonna go out there and see a bunch of bozos and come back and do the program he wanted to do forever.

• 42:14Speaker 02

  Sure, sure.

• 42:15Dax Shepard?

  So she goes out there and then she does, she has these terrible dates, she wants to be with him, then she bumps into her ex-boyfriend, who's been out of town for three years. And now it's kinda fucked up. Now she starts hanging with him and sleeping over this. And then once Jake finds out that's happening, he's like, hold on, you were at your ex-boyfriend? I wanna have a baby with you more than ever. Let's get married, blah, blah, right? So he just completely flips because he can't-

• 42:38Speaker 01

  Anything he can give you, I can give you.

• 42:40Dax Shepard?

  Yes, I'll give you, I'll go camping, I'll be outdoors, you know, all this, everything. And so then he flips, and then, so he's a mess, and she's now into the boyfriend. So then he's forced to start dating, so then all of a sudden, he's dating someone his age, and he likes her kind of a lot, and then she freaks out and flips, and it's just this, it's such an honest portrayal of like, how loss bias fucks us up so much. And what they keep showing both these men do, which is universal, is like, that's not my thing. I don't like going to art shows. Hanging out with your friends isn't my thing. And just men with their, it's not my thing, and their unwillingness to be a slightly uncomfortable, or try something new, or do anything that they haven't figured out how to do-

• 43:24Speaker 02

  Yes!

• 43:24Dax Shepard?

  -has to be mad.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  Until we lose them, or about to lose them.

• 43:28Speaker 02

  Yes! Or you get better for the next girl, right?

• 43:32Dax Shepard?

  Yes!

• 43:33Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 43:34Dax Shepard?

  It's the way people do AA, it's the way I did AA. It's like, what you're supposed to do, you're just go to meetings, read this book, have a sponcy blank-

• 43:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 43:40Dax Shepard?

  -or the steps. Like, I'll admit, I'm powerless, I'm not fucking with the God thing. I do 20% of it, and guess what? I'm fucked up for three months. And I come back and I go, you know what? I'll do 40% of it. Works for three months, then I'm fucked up. And then eventually, I go, okay, I'm gonna do all the fucking things, because I don't wanna die.

• 43:56Speaker 02

  Totally, totally, totally.

• 43:59Dax Shepard?

  But yeah, we're the worst, right? We're the worst.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  I think men don't necessarily understand the depth of the heartbreak and the harm that love, again, love bombing, whatever you wanna call it.

• 44:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 44:11Speaker 02

  I mean, there are biological things, especially if you have sex. Like, if we have sex with you, then we're feeling, there's a hormone-

• 44:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but you're releasing oxytocin, and I'm not. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 44:20Speaker 02

  Exactly. I think there's a physical thing we never talk about. Like, you're literally inside of me. Like, it's a different thing physically.

• 44:26Dax Shepard?

  I agree.

• 44:26Speaker 02

  And so I-

• 44:27Dax Shepard?

  You've invaded my body.

• 44:29Speaker 02

  Yeah! Like, what you say with Aaron, if you have sex with Aaron versus Ruthie, like, it's different, right? And so I think that maybe for a lot of men, they don't understand why love bombing is so pernicious, because they can't even maybe imagine how painful it is, because they don't have all of those-

• 44:45Dax Shepard?

  But then there's also this fascinating data, right, that men, well, A, women break up with men more than men break up with women, that's an interesting thing. Men tend to carry it longer than women do.

• 44:54Speaker 02

  Carry the-

• 44:55Dax Shepard?

  The heartbreak longer.

• 44:57Speaker 02

  Oh, really? Okay.

• 44:57Dax Shepard?

  They tend to move on less well than women do, right? So it's like, this is why I'm saying, it's like, stop the, you guys are terrible, and we're this. It's like, no, it's a, it's a hard and messy-

• 45:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:08Dax Shepard?

  -confusing thing, and it's, and, and, and our hardwiring is, is set up against us in a lot of ways. And everyone's gotta transcend that.

• 45:16Speaker 02

  And we have different bodies. I mean, I do think these things are real. The risk of pregnancy, the risk of, again, when we're falling for each other, when we're having sex, I think that's where, like, gender-neutral dating advice doesn't work, because it is gonna be different for the woman than it is for the man.

• 45:29Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes.

• 45:29Speaker 02

  And that's why I do tell women, wait to have sex. I mean, that was one of the first advice I got in the program.

• 45:33Dax Shepard?

  And by the way, yes, if you wanna date a dude, that is the move.

• 45:36Speaker 02

  It is.

• 45:37Dax Shepard?

  And, and then you could go like, oh, so women can't be horny and fuck? No.

• 45:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:40Dax Shepard?

  Have a dude you fuck.

• 45:41Speaker 02

  Get a vibrator.

• 45:43Dax Shepard?

  Get a vibrator, or have a fuck buddy, right?

• 45:45Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 45:46Dax Shepard?

  I think you and I talked about this before, I heard this psychologist saying, like, there's three categories. One-night stands, and then there's booty calls that last for months or years.

• 45:55Speaker 02

  Right.

• 45:55Dax Shepard?

  And then there's relationships.

• 45:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:57Dax Shepard?

  And really, the only damaging one is the middle. So, yeah, fuck if you're horny, I think women should fuck if they're horny.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:03Dax Shepard?

  And then if they want, there's a guy they wanna be with, then yes, I think-

• 46:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:06Dax Shepard?

  -probably. Although, look, Kristen and I fucked immediately.

• 46:09Speaker 02

  I get it.

• 46:10Dax Shepard?

  So also, there's that.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  Relatable.

• 46:12Dax Shepard?

  Okay, how do you think, I think another thing that is really different between the genders is, I think women have a lot more fantasy around relationships. And I don't think men have much fantasy about relationships.

• 46:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:24Dax Shepard?

  And I think that's one of the big issues on the table.

• 46:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:27Dax Shepard?

  What do we think about that?

• 46:28Speaker 02

  But here's why, right? Like, it's not just the marriage, it's you're getting pregnant, there's a guy that's gonna come inside of you, create a human being with you. Like, there, we, we do have, I mean, and I can speak to this on a physiological level. When I was 38, from 35 to 38, I was a, I was a hornbag.

• 46:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 46:45Speaker 02

  Like, I just was, I felt-

• 46:47Dax Shepard?

  You wanted dick.

• 46:48Speaker 02

  I wanted dick, I wanted to be, but even the way I was having sex, it was like-

• 46:53Dax Shepard?

  Well, it was addict-y, right?

• 46:54Speaker 02

  Well, for sure, for sure. And I was working through that.

• 46:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 46:57Speaker 02

  But I also think that there's a real physiological urge to reproduce, anyway.

• 47:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 47:03Speaker 02

  And, and again, if you're a woman, you are incentivized, and this is, if you go back in evolutionary, you need to find a man who will take care of you, who will take care of your baby, who will provide, and who you can survive, and who will give the best chance for your baby to survive.

• 47:18Dax Shepard?

  You wouldn't be here if that's not how it had been done before we got here.

• 47:22Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 47:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, we're the product of that.

• 47:24Speaker 02

  I am, yes. Of my mother choosing well, and my dad being, all of those things.

• 47:28Dax Shepard?

  Well, just look at the data of viewership of romantic comedies.

• 47:32Speaker 02

  I mean-

• 47:33Dax Shepard?

  It's like, you know, I don't know the numbers, but 90/10, right?

• 47:36Speaker 02

  No.

• 47:36Dax Shepard?

  Guys aren't even really-

• 47:38Speaker 02

  They don't care.

• 47:38Dax Shepard?

  No, they're not fantasizing about the meet-cute and all that stuff.

• 47:42Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 47:42Dax Shepard?

  So that's a huge gap between us. Like, how do we bridge that gap?

• 47:46Speaker 02

  I think it's, again, we have so much more at stake to risk, and it's just the investment is bigger.

• 47:53Dax Shepard?

  It's the risk reward of it all.

• 47:54Speaker 02

  The risk reward of it all. And so women are approaching dating in a very different way, if they're smart.

• 47:58Dax Shepard?

  But again, that might be vestigial. So-

• 48:00Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 48:01Dax Shepard?

  We have so many vestigial things that we're still dealing with, and they're not even material anymore, right? Like, yeah, like, do you really need a perfect provider and all this? No, but your body thinks so.

• 48:09Speaker 02

  Yes. I guess the point, I, I keep coming back to this, of the risk of choosing the wrong partner, if you're a guy, is big, right? Like, it's, love is always high stakes.

• 48:20Dax Shepard?

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:20Speaker 02

  If you're a woman and you're choosing the wrong partner, though, there's just a lot more that can happen, and there's a lot of a greater, again, the investment is-

• 48:28Dax Shepard?

  And you could be stuck with the bill a lot more than a guy can be.

• 48:31Speaker 02

  Exactly. And that comes back to the advice you're giving, you know, your daughters around, like, be careful, don't, I don't know if guys have to be as careful. Yes, we both have our parts, but I think that we have to recognize that it is not an equal playing field. Like, men and women coming onto the dating scene, there's just not going to ever be, that, men will never know what it's like. And I think this conversation, like, this is what you don't find on the internet, to me. Like, the nuance of it all, of yes, each person-

• 48:58Dax Shepard?

  And the good faithness, right?

• 48:59Speaker 02

  The good faithness.

• 49:00Dax Shepard?

  Like, I love you, you are very, very smart. I assume you have the ability to give me a perspective I don't yet have.

• 49:06Speaker 02

  And same.

• 49:06Dax Shepard?

  And I imagine you're able to listen to my perspective without feeling attacked.

• 49:10Speaker 02

  No, it's helped me a lot.

• 49:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I love talking to you.

• 49:13Speaker 02

  Me too.

• 49:14Dax Shepard?

  Because we do sometime, you're, look, we're similar, yet you're also a female, and I'm a male, so I'm naturally a little protective of this group of dudes who's dying at mass rates.

• 49:24Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 49:24Dax Shepard?

  And I'm like-

• 49:25Speaker 02

  And same, yes.

• 49:26Dax Shepard?

  And then you're-

• 49:26Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 49:27Dax Shepard?

  -justifiably concerned about all these women who are being fucked with and abused.

• 49:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 49:32Speaker 02

  Aww.

• 49:32Dax Shepard?

  I love you, Liz. You're so fun and smart, yeah.

• 49:36Speaker 02

  I love you guys. I thought we were just gonna fart around, and we're just going-

• 49:40Dax Shepard?

  We don't ever fart around.

• 49:42Speaker 02

  Fart, fart, fart, fart, fart, fart.

• 49:45Dax Shepard?

  Love you.

• 49:46Speaker 02

  Love you more.

• 49:47Dax Shepard?

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