Emily & Matt Hyland (Emily Burger)

Emily & Matt Hyland (Emily, Pizza Loves Emily, Emmy Squared Pizza) are restaurateurs and authors, with Matt a Michelin-recognized chef and culinary creator, and Emily an educator, poet, and mindful movement teacher. Emily and Matt join the Armchair Expert to discuss meeting when Emily was Matt’s college RA, how yoga has been one of the biggest through lines in Emily’s life, and their favorite pizza’s favorite pizza. Matt, Emily, and Dax talk about when THE burger entered the scene, how a difficulty to compartmentalize working together caused their relationship to break down, and the underlying friction that resulted from conflating her identity with his food. Emily and Matt explain getting divorced after opening a restaurant based on their love story, how through therapeutic work healing their dynamic as partners after each remarrying, and the clarity that came from an arrest and a restraining order during a really dark moment. Take printer ink off your to-do list with HP Smart Tank | hp.com/SmartTank Check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds: https://www.allstate.com/ See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert, Experts on Expert. I'm Dax Shepard. I'm joined by Miniature Mouse.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Hi there.

• 0:07Dax Shepard?

  Boy, y'all, you've been hearing us talking about this burger for eight long years. It's our obsession. It's our religion.

• 0:16Speaker 01

  It's our life force.

• 0:18Dax Shepard?

  It's our life force. Emily Burger. So today we have Emily and Matt Hyland on, who started Emily Loves Pizza and Emily and Emmy Square and all these yummy restaurants that serve it. Emily is also a poet and an educator and a mindful movement teacher. And Matt is a chef and a restaurateur. Please enjoy Emily and Matt Hyland. We get support from AG1. Fall is that time when your body and mind are getting ready for the winter. You're settling in, bracing for the cold. Your body's already running a deficit from the shorter days and broken sleep patterns. You don't want a nutrient deficit stacked on top of that, too.

• 0:58Speaker 01

  That's where your AG1 routine earns its spot. It's not fixing your sleep or your alarm time. It's giving your body what it needs so the dark mornings don't tank you before you even start. One scoop, cold water every morning before anything else.

• 1:11Dax Shepard?

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• 1:25Speaker 01

  That's the part people miss. It's not a one-day fix. It's what happens when you stay consistent.

• 1:29Dax Shepard?

  It's an easy, everyday thing. I've added it to my morning routine. And I'm gonna tell you, I actually love the taste of it. It's like Pavlovian. I drink it and I know, mm, I'm gonna get that little vitamin buzz.

• 1:39Speaker 01

  Well, that's also the thing. When you do it first thing in the morning, you already feel kind of self-esteem because you're like, I already did something good for myself.

• 1:46Dax Shepard?

  Yes. Go to drinkag1.com/dax and for a limited time, get a free immunity bundle, including a bottle of Omega 3 Fish Oil and a bottle of Vitamin D3 K2 with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro. That's drinkag1.com/dax. And after checkout, be sure to let them know that Armchair Expert sent you. We get support from Quince.

• 2:13Speaker 01

  I have to say, I am so ready for fall. I want sweaters. I've been craving a true crisp morning where I actually need a jacket. I can't wait.

• 2:22Dax Shepard?

  I'm fully there. The second it dips below 70, I'm like, this is my season. Give me the layers, give me the boots, give me a reason to wear something other than a T-shirt. And honestly, that's why I love Quince, because fall is when your wardrobe actually has to show up. And everything at Quince is 50 to 80% less than similar brands. We're talking 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters, starting at $60.

• 2:44Speaker 01

  $60, $60 for cashmere that you'd expect from a luxury brand without the luxury price tag. It's amazing. Gets me every time. It really shouldn't be real, but it is because they go straight to the factories, they skip the middlemen, and they just hand you the savings. The stuff isn't trendy, it's the kind of pieces you grab over and over because they work every time.

• 3:02Dax Shepard?

  The 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters for me are it. When I look at Steve McQueen, this man owned a couple of sweaters he wore all the time, and he looks iconic.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  It's a uniform.

• 3:13Dax Shepard?

  Hmm.

• 3:13Speaker 01

  And Quince isn't just about the clothes. They have hotel-quality bedding, cookware, bath essentials, thoughtfully-designed furniture. You can really go there and outfit your entire apartment or house. So if you're in need of any kind of fall refresh at home, too, same quality, same attention to detail for every corner of your life.

• 3:31Dax Shepard?

  Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Armchair Expert. It's the best way to support the show.

• 4:08Speaker 01

  I know.

• 4:09Dax Shepard?

  Dex, great to meet you.

• 4:10Speaker 02

  Yes. I hope you know you've influenced me. I'm in my Jenny Kane because of you.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  You look so cute. Hello.

• 4:18Dax Shepard?

  Hi, good to see you.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  Thank you so much for having us. Did you guys get pies on the burger?

• 4:23Speaker 03

  Yes, of course, that's why I'm sitting right there.

• 4:24Dax Shepard?

  You already spotted it?

• 4:25Speaker 02

  Well, we have some gifts for you.

• 4:27Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 4:29Speaker 02

  Notably.

• 4:30Dax Shepard?

  We deserve them, but we'll receive them.

• 4:33Speaker 01

  I'll take it.

• 4:34Speaker 02

  Our chef at the Santa Monica, Emmy Sperry.

• 4:38Dax Shepard?

  Put on a cereal, put on a...

• 4:39Speaker 02

  We'll use these for you guys.

• 4:41Speaker 01

  Oh, my god, amazing.

• 4:43Dax Shepard?

  First of all, I just love these little squeeze bottles.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:46Dax Shepard?

  And I wouldn't know where to purchase one.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, so now you have one, you can reuse it. This is so yummy.

• 4:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, so enjoy.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  Oh, I can't wait.

• 4:54Dax Shepard?

  It's like the mustard squirter at a Conny Dog.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  It is, it is, or like a Fuddruckers.

• 5:00Speaker 02

  And so it's like extra matter, you have the sauce behind you.

• 5:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I like that.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  Can I give you the rest of our gifts? We kind of decided to, we're so honored to be here. Matt's wife is a chocolatier.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 5:13Speaker 03

  She made special, special bun-buns.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  What?

• 5:17Speaker 02

  And my new book is coming out this season, and so I wanted to give one of those to each of you.

• 5:23Dax Shepard?

  Are you coming from Santa Fe and you're coming from Austin?

• 5:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:26Dax Shepard?

  You guys visit here often or not?

• 5:27Speaker 01

  Occasionally.

• 5:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, LA is one of my favorite cities. Growing up in New York, it's so different. We both grew up in New York City. Coming to LA is such a nice treat. It's like a big, beautiful town with the best weather ever and great food. It's so much fun being here.

• 5:38Dax Shepard?

  How often do you guys go visit these different locations? Let's start with how many Emily or Emmy or all the different iterations. Restaurants are there right now?

• 5:48Speaker 02

  So, we still co-own and operate the original Emily in Clinton Hill.

• 5:52Dax Shepard?

  Clinton Hill.

• 5:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's why you got the VIP reservation.

• 5:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  That was the start of it all.

• 5:57Dax Shepard?

  That was our intro.

• 5:59Speaker 02

  What are there now, 21?

• 6:00Speaker 03

  No, I think it's more like 30.

• 6:01Speaker 02

  30?

• 6:01Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 6:02Dax Shepard?

  30.

• 6:02Speaker 03

  Emmy Squirtz, not Emily's.

• 6:04Dax Shepard?

  The franchise is called Emmy's Square?

• 6:05Speaker 03

  Correct, yeah.

• 6:06Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 6:06Speaker 03

  The West Village is a weird hybrid.

• 6:08Dax Shepard?

  It's a hybrid, right?

• 6:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, so the burger is a little different. We use the same sauce, but it's a double patty. But yeah, Clinton Hill is definitely the original.

• 6:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:15Dax Shepard?

  The burger at the West Village seems to me like it's evolved closer to Clinton Hill over the years. Is that at all true? There's more soupy onions now on the West Village one, which is what I like so much about Clinton Hill. But I don't think originally when I went there, they had the soupy onion.

• 6:32Speaker 03

  Probably put a little bit less on. It has evolved. We opened in 2017. So it's almost 10 years we opened that one.

• 6:37Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 6:37Speaker 03

  So like your menu changes happen and chefs come and go and things like that. But we're pretty hands-off with that one more recently. The bigger company owns that one specifically.

• 6:45Speaker 02

  Matt has come back in to do some corporate chefing, but I'm a silent partner in the Emmy Squared group. So I just basically run the show over at the original from.

• 6:54Dax Shepard?

  A far.

• 6:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. Unfortunately, our chef and our manager are very reliable.

• 6:57Dax Shepard?

  You still have to check in all the time with this bigger business that you guys are silent partners in. You get updated and stuff?

• 7:03Speaker 03

  Yeah. And since they asked me to come back to sort of consult our corporate chef, and I will retrain some of the other chefs and come to new menu items. We're opening one in Greenwich where I grew up, which is very strange.

• 7:13Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah. Connecticut?

• 7:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, like right on Greenwich Avenue, which is like a strange place to call.

• 7:16Speaker 02

  From where you grew up, literally.

• 7:18Speaker 03

  And it took over a restaurant that I went to growing up, so it's kind of cool. But we'll launch a new menu there. That'll like roll into the other 30 locations.

• 7:24Dax Shepard?

  So that'd be like kind of a test kitchen, where you R and D stuff?

• 7:27Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I'll be living in my mom's basement at that point.

• 7:29Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  Really full circle.

• 7:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, exactly.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  Which was the plan if the restaurant fails in the beginning.

• 7:36Dax Shepard?

  It's nice to have that backup basement, to be honest.

• 7:39Speaker 03

  It's full of crickets. It's great.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  You guys would open one on the east side of LA. Santa Monica, I'll tell you.

• 7:46Dax Shepard?

  It's another state.

• 7:47Speaker 01

  Going to Brooklyn.

• 7:48Speaker 02

  Duly noted.

• 7:48Speaker 03

  What I didn't know that Emily pointed out was there's one downtown.

• 7:51Speaker 02

  In the, what is it? LA Nation? Life?

• 7:54Dax Shepard?

  What?

• 7:54Speaker 02

  Is that what it's called?

• 7:55Dax Shepard?

  There's one downtown now?

• 7:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:56Dax Shepard?

  How long has that been online?

• 7:58Speaker 01

  A few years?

• 7:58Speaker 02

  Oh, no, no one told me.

• 8:00Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, because when we've ordered in the past, they will deliver. I don't know why. They'll deliver from Santa Monica. And it's good. It's still good, but it takes a beating in an hour and a half car ride.

• 8:09Speaker 03

  Cold.

• 8:10Dax Shepard?

  You gotta really be a diehard Emily burger.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  Exactly. I'd like one on Hillhurst. I'm going to be very specific.

• 8:16Dax Shepard?

  I'd like one on Frank's.

• 8:17Speaker 02

  The powers that be.

• 8:19Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 8:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, listen up.

• 8:21Speaker 03

  Your door's empty, right?

• 8:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, there is a building there that could use some cute stuff.

• 8:27Speaker 02

  He'll relay it.

• 8:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'll relay it.

• 8:29Dax Shepard?

  Well, so with you, Emily, you're from New Jersey, huh?

• 8:32Speaker 02

  I am, Jersey girl.

• 8:33Dax Shepard?

  And what did your parents do?

• 8:35Speaker 02

  They were teachers. My mom was a teacher of graduate students for the visually impaired. So she was a sighted person who could actually read and write in Braille, which was pretty cool.

• 8:44Speaker 01

  That's really cool, actually.

• 8:45Dax Shepard?

  How did she stumble into that? That feels very niche.

• 8:47Speaker 02

  She did her doctorate at Columbia in special education. I don't actually know the why of that, but she felt very called towards that population. And my dad founded a charter school in northern New Jersey and was the principal of that school.

• 9:00Dax Shepard?

  Did you attend that?

• 9:01Speaker 02

  I did not attend that school, thankfully.

• 9:03Speaker 03

  Did they meet at Columbia?

• 9:03Speaker 02

  They met at Columbia, yeah.

• 9:05Dax Shepard?

  And then your parents, you started in Brooklyn but ended up in Greenwich, right?

• 9:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I was born in New York City. Everyone's born at NYU, I guess, in the 80s.

• 9:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 9:12Speaker 03

  I was in Brooklyn until I was nine, and then my dad grew up in Greenwich, so we moved back up there because he was sick of living in New York City. And my mother grew up in deep Brooklyn, and we lived like 10 blocks from where she grew up. She traveled, obviously, but never left Brooklyn to live.

• 9:24Dax Shepard?

  And what did they do?

• 9:25Speaker 03

  They were both transportation analysts at Standard and Poor's. That's where they met.

• 9:29Dax Shepard?

  Okay, again, this is very fucking niche. Your mom reads Braille, and they are transportation.

• 9:34Speaker 03

  Like, they specialized in airlines and trains. So my father would go up and be like, "This is why we should not give them this kind of rating, like a AAA or AA credit rating." And my mom would go up and be like, "No, no, this is why we should."

• 9:44Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 9:45Speaker 03

  Adversaries.

• 9:46Dax Shepard?

  But they both worked at Standard and Poor's?

• 9:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, Standard and Poor's, S and P.

• 9:49Dax Shepard?

  And they rank stuff and they say what the quality of their debt is and stuff like that?

• 9:54Speaker 03

  Exactly. I didn't follow in that path.

• 9:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, right. So you guys meet in Rhode Island at what school?

• 10:00Speaker 02

  Roger Williams. I was Matt's RA.

• 10:02Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you were?

• 10:03Speaker 02

  So I used the key into his room and steals candy.

• 10:06Speaker 03

  You were like two years younger than me.

• 10:07Speaker 02

  I was 18.

• 10:07Speaker 03

  I was like 20, I think.

• 10:08Speaker 02

  Nobody listened to me on the floor. I was an RA for one semester after that.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  So you were a good student. You were like a Type A?

• 10:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, still am.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:17Dax Shepard?

  Still true.

• 10:18Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 10:19Speaker 03

  Third ruffle of candy. That was the kind of student I was.

• 10:23Dax Shepard?

  And you were a computer science major?

• 10:25Speaker 03

  Computer science, yeah.

• 10:26Dax Shepard?

  Okay, all this is hilarious where you end up. And then you were doing writing and sociology?

• 10:30Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, creative writing.

• 10:31Dax Shepard?

  And when did you first meet? Literally, were you in his dorm room?

• 10:34Speaker 03

  The second week of sophomore year?

• 10:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, we ate pizza together.

• 10:38Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 10:38Speaker 02

  On the dorm room floor.

• 10:39Speaker 03

  Three straight pizzas.

• 10:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, three straight pizza meals. And then it was pretty quick.

• 10:43Dax Shepard?

  Uh, pepperoni and olive oil?

• 10:44Speaker 03

  Pepperoni and olives is my.

• 10:45Dax Shepard?

  Olives, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:47Speaker 01

  That is good.

• 10:48Speaker 03

  That's a deep preference there. I could get that.

• 10:51Speaker 02

  What's yours?

• 10:52Speaker 01

  Do you know hers?

• 10:53Dax Shepard?

  Well, no, I know what they ate on their first day.

• 10:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:55Speaker 01

  Oh my god!

• 10:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 10:57Speaker 03

  Were you there? Man, this is incredible.

• 10:59Dax Shepard?

  That's not hard to find. Okay.

• 11:00Speaker 03

  Oh, you're right.

• 11:01Dax Shepard?

  So, you guys graduate in 2004? And do you already know by the time you graduate, you are not gonna pursue sociology? And you are not gonna pursue computer science?

• 11:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was gonna drop out junior year and go to culinary school. And then my mother and Emily convinced me, you're already there, junior year, why would you drop out now?

• 11:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 11:18Speaker 03

  And that's obviously, Rich, like, the great idea.

• 11:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. I majored in creative writing, actually. So I wound up applying and getting into graduate school at Brooklyn College for my MFA in poetry. And then Matt got into culinary school at the Institute of Culinary Education. So we came to the city.

• 11:32Dax Shepard?

  Which is unfortunately known as ICE.

• 11:34Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 11:34Speaker 03

  It is, unfortunately.

• 11:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 11:35Speaker 03

  They have a campus here in Pasadena now. They're like, we gotta change it.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  That might need a rebrand.

• 11:39Speaker 03

  Rebrand.

• 11:40Dax Shepard?

  It was like, oh, I'm gonna read this interview with you for ICE.

• 11:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I was like, oh, yeah, they need a, they need a different acronym. Or just drop the acronym. Okay, so, yeah, you guys are together, 2001. You graduate 2004. And then for the next three years between 04 and 07, you're getting your masters and you're going to ICE to be an agent and throw people in. What is a culinary program entail? I have no clue.

• 12:05Speaker 03

  The one I went to is only six months. It was just more of like, here's your basic skills.

• 12:09Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 12:09Speaker 03

  And just throw you into the wild and kinda get like wrecked in a New York City kitchen. I was passionate about cooking and food, but I had no technical skills. So I went there, I learned everything. Even like how to heat up the pan correctly to put the oil in. So they really start from the basic.

• 12:21Dax Shepard?

  How does one heat up a pan correctly? You don't just throw it on the fucking burner?

• 12:24Speaker 03

  No, you do.

• 12:25Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay, okay.

• 12:26Speaker 03

  But like, you know, it's like how hot you want it before you put your oil in.

• 12:28Dax Shepard?

  Ah, okay, okay, okay, I got you, I got you.

• 12:30Speaker 03

  The nuances.

• 12:31Dax Shepard?

  I was like, we're not raising slowly the temperature, are we?

• 12:36Dax Shepard?

  You want to dedicate a good forty-five to an hour?

• 12:38Speaker 01

  Or you want that oil to shimmer?

• 12:40Dax Shepard?

  Shimmer?

• 12:41Speaker 03

  Shimmer, yeah, you need the oil shimmer.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  I know about that. I know a little bit, just a little bit.

• 12:45Speaker 03

  How to clean cast irons, you know, it's always important.

• 12:48Dax Shepard?

  Is there longer programs in six months? Okay, people can go for years, no?

• 12:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, if you want to go to like CIA upstate New York, that's another good name.

• 12:55Dax Shepard?

  CIA.

• 12:55Speaker 01

  Why are they all like this?

• 12:57Dax Shepard?

  CIA. Homeland Security is a great program out of uh...

• 13:01Speaker 01

  They specialize in obliques.

• 13:03Speaker 03

  So yeah, you can go like four years, like it's actual college. But I picked the six-month one because I kind of wanted to get into the restaurants. While I was in culinary school, I did like staging for a few nights in different places too.

• 13:12Dax Shepard?

  What staging?

• 13:12Speaker 03

  You go and work for free for a night to see how a kitchen operates because every kitchen operates so differently with a different chef and different ways to prep things and cook things. So it's kind of like, has a giant restaurant to it, has a tiny restaurant to it and you kind of go for a night and just watch your service and they'll give you some onions to chop while you're doing it.

• 13:28Dax Shepard?

  And then how does this interest lead you ultimately to pizza? That's where your obsession lands you, right?

• 13:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, so you know, I was kind of getting burned out of just regular cooking and I took like a year off and then you were going to school for being a principal, right?

• 13:40Speaker 01

  I was in yoga school at that point.

• 13:42Speaker 03

  Oh, you were in yoga school, that's right. And then this pizza place, Sotocasa, which is still there, it's on Lennox Avenue and Smith.

• 13:46Speaker 01

  In Brooklyn.

• 13:47Speaker 03

  They were just opening that week. I walk in, I was like, I don't know how to make pizza, but like I've always wanted to. You know, and I had experience helping open restaurants and pizza guys like really aren't chefs. So I could kind of come in there and help just be like, this is a better chef-y thing to do than how you just make pizza. And then Luca is like my pizza mentor.

• 14:01Dax Shepard?

  He taught you the why of pizza?

• 14:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:04Dax Shepard?

  What is the why of pizza?

• 14:05Speaker 03

  The simplicity of it, right? Making the original form of pizza, like the Neapolitan pizza was great because every pizza is a replica of that pizza. And then like there's a replica and then a replica and then all of a sudden you have like a Detroit pie or something that doesn't even look like the original. It's like, why is the original the original? How did these clones come out of it, basically?

• 14:22Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and why was the origin the original? The Italians were trying to accomplish what?

• 14:26Speaker 03

  It's basically like peasant food. So the guys would get off the boats. They'd get a round red pie. They'd put their fish on it and they'd kind of roll it up like a burrito. Eat it like street food.

• 14:34Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 14:35Speaker 03

  That's why marinara is called marinara sauce. It's like the seafood.

• 14:38Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 14:39Dax Shepard?

  Oh, like marine marinara?

• 14:40Speaker 01

  That's interesting. You would hate fish pizza.

• 14:43Dax Shepard?

  I wouldn't fuck with it, no.

• 14:44Speaker 01

  He's scared of fish.

• 14:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I can't get down with fish.

• 14:47Speaker 02

  But I remember the day he came home from one of the early days at Sotacasa. And it really did feel like he put his hands on that dough. And he was like, this is what I want to do. And we had had this kind of fantasy of like, one day we'll open a restaurant. And the conditions in our life were so that we were like, let's do this now. Let's jump in and what's the worst that happens?

• 15:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 15:07Speaker 02

  Now we're sitting here with you.

• 15:08Dax Shepard?

  Let's go to your yoga instruction, because that's what's happening. So you've picked up a masters and you are teaching.

• 15:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 15:14Dax Shepard?

  And then you're also learning to be a yoga instructor. Where did that interest stem from?

• 15:19Speaker 02

  I was an athlete my whole life. I went to college to play basketball. And then I quit basketball my freshman year very quickly and discovered that trifecta of beer, pizza, pot. And gained a lot of weight, was really unhealthy. And by the time I got to the end of graduate school, I was very obese and really struggling and very medicated and that sort of thing. And my sister brought me to a yoga class and encouraged me. And I got there and it was like, this is something I can do. I don't feel judged. I feel safe and held and kept showing up. And so it's been one of the biggest through lines in my life. And was really the lens through which I approached the ethos of the restaurant in terms of my work with it, which I think was really valuable.

• 15:59Dax Shepard?

  What would you say if you had to stereotype people that are drawn to yoga? I've attended some yoga classes. I've probably done 20 in the last 26 years I've lived here.

• 16:08Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 16:08Dax Shepard?

  And there's a vibe. And I'm curious what the connective tissue is. It sounds like it answered a whole host of things. Holistically changed your life, not just, oh, I wanted to get in shape. So would it be fair to say people that are drawn to it are looking for some kind of holistic experience?

• 16:24Speaker 02

  I think it's been really appropriated and watered down in our culture. It came through California and like aerobics workout culture in the 1970s. And so it started to really become this thing that's like. Hot power exercise, but.

• 16:40Dax Shepard?

  Bikram.

• 16:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, the physical practice is just one eighth of what it means to practice the eight limbs path of yoga.

• 16:46Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 16:46Speaker 02

  So it is a philosophical way of living, not just posture practice, and that's been grossly misinterpreted.

• 16:52Dax Shepard?

  What is it grounded in? Like, what ancient text? Or is it an offshoot of some other religion?

• 16:57Speaker 02

  It's not a religious practice as much as a philosophical practice. So the yoga sutures of Patanjali is kind of the text. It's the threads of all of the strings of what it means to practice. And it's, uh, yoga shchitavriti nirodha means yoga is the quieting of all the changing states of the mind. So the work of yoga is to quell the thinking mind. It's not to be able to like, do some crazy arm balance and a matching set on Instagram.

• 17:23Dax Shepard?

  If that's an added bonus of it, great.

• 17:25Speaker 02

  Sure, yeah. And I don't claim to be any sort of expert, but just growing in that world and trying to do my duty as a white woman of privilege who runs a yoga studio to not be appropriating and to be aware of how I've been brought up on it and the impact it's had on me as a person has been life-changing, but I think is slightly problematic in our society. But who am I to?

• 17:45Speaker 03

  I think in India too, they look at yoga as a white person thing.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  Maybe now they might.

• 17:50Speaker 03

  Like, it's so much bigger in America. Like a cultural, not a cultural phenomenon. I mean, it's just kind of been here for a long time.

• 17:54Dax Shepard?

  It's kind of like pizza, if you're Italian, literally.

• 17:58Speaker 01

  True.

• 17:58Dax Shepard?

  Like, I think Italians look at Americans like, they have more pizza than anyone could imagine in every single shape. Somehow it came from here, but look what they've gone bananas. There's a weird parallel between.

• 18:07Speaker 03

  I think it's like sushi in America too, right? Like, everything spicy crunchy rolls? They're delicious, but definitely some of the Japanese person would be like.

• 18:13Speaker 01

  That's hot sushi, yeah.

• 18:15Dax Shepard?

  We like the McDonald's stuff. By the way, I'm here for it. I love a spicy tuna crispy rice.

• 18:19Speaker 03

  I love that, yeah.

• 18:20Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so you get married in 2007. After seven years, I guess you've been together, 2001. And then you start the first restaurant, which is just Emily, in 2012?

• 18:30Speaker 02

  Oh, 2014. We just celebrated 12 years operationally.

• 18:34Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so you knew you wanted to make pizza, and you knew you wanted to do what? What were you wanting to accomplish with the restaurant?

• 18:40Speaker 02

  I wasn't. I feel like.

• 18:42Speaker 03

  I dragged her into it.

• 18:43Speaker 02

  Oh, you dragged me. I very much got pulled into that space. I withdrew from the graduate program I was in, studying to become a school building leader in New York City. And I'd resigned from my job as a public school teacher, was not happy. And so I was teaching yoga, two classes a week, making no money. That seemed like a place of possibility, but also like, what the heck? And. He was working as a line cook, making no money. And so again, the time felt like if we're gonna do it, let's jump in and try this.

• 19:11Dax Shepard?

  Can I ask, where the fuck did you get the capital? It sounds like you were barely paying your rent. How did you get the capital to start something?

• 19:17Speaker 02

  Matt's dad died and he inherited a little bit of money.

• 19:20Speaker 03

  Grandma too. It was like a hundred grand or something. So we had to like really keep it on the cheap dopest net.

• 19:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, this is also very risky. If I'm dead broke and I inherit a hundred grand, I don't know that I'm immediately gonna gamble it on opening a business.

• 19:32Speaker 02

  Well, his mom's basement was the plan if we failed.

• 19:35Speaker 03

  Right. Yeah, grandma died and it was like three years later, I think we did. It wasn't like, oh, wait, you got money. It takes risk. Yeah, we dumped like everything into it. We're like, we gotta go all in. And we did, and then it worked out.

• 19:44Speaker 02

  We were so broke though, we couldn't even put tap lines in, in the beginning.

• 19:47Speaker 03

  We did the Kickstarter for the pizza oven.

• 19:49Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 19:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:50Dax Shepard?

  Wow.

• 19:51Speaker 03

  Beautiful pizza ovens.

• 19:52Dax Shepard?

  And when you guys were sitting down dreaming it up, were you drawing pictures? How were you thinking of what it would look like? And what were you thinking was going to be your guys' novel offering into a very, very crowded restaurant space in New York?

• 20:05Speaker 02

  Well, we were super impulsive. We had gone for a walk to go eat at a restaurant in Clinton Hill that Matt had been told about by Dale Tall Day, who was a buddy of ours.

• 20:14Speaker 03

  That's right, yeah.

• 20:15Speaker 02

  And we get to the restaurant and it was shuttered. And we were like, that's where we're putting our restaurant. And we had never really been in that neighborhood and hadn't been living in Brooklyn that long. We had no business just doing this the way we did.

• 20:26Speaker 03

  Just wander around Clinton Hill.

• 20:26Speaker 02

  But we went and found a coffee shop and we drafted on a sheet of paper in my journal, how much might it cost to get in here? I think we called my dad to come look at the space that night with us, or the next day or whatever. Yeah, hustled to get in there and that was it.

• 20:40Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so almost location before overarching game plan of what it's going to be.

• 20:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, we knew we wanted to do pizza.

• 20:46Dax Shepard?

  And what was gonna be unique about your pizza?

• 20:49Speaker 03

  Well, I love Neapolitan pizza, but I think my favorite pizza style is New Haven, which has like a very charred crust on it. Because Neapolitan pizza is what in the middle? That's why you eat it with a knife and fork. So I wanted to have more of a dry pizza of Neapolitan.

• 21:00Speaker 02

  Doesn't like a soupy middle.

• 21:01Speaker 03

  No sweet middle and no big puffy crust. So we push our crust down and go toppings to the edge because people want more toppings than crust.

• 21:08Dax Shepard?

  You hate those bubbles. You fucking hate those.

• 21:10Speaker 03

  I just don't wanna serve them.

• 21:11Dax Shepard?

  Okay, you just don't wanna serve them, okay.

• 21:13Speaker 03

  You're fine to eat them? I'll eat them, yeah. Okay. It's obviously not New Haven style, but I tried to base how they cook their pizza on how we kind of cook our pizza.

• 21:21Dax Shepard?

  Is the original pizza that you guys started with what I have eaten there? Was it rectangle and what we might call Detroit stylish?

• 21:28Speaker 02

  No, so we have a big wood burning oven at the original location. So it's rounds, wood fired pizza.

• 21:34Speaker 03

  And then the Emmy spread is the Detroit style.

• 21:36Dax Shepard?

  So what's the timeline from dad comes, he looks at it, he must be thinking this is a terrible idea, but they're young and I'm gonna be supportive.

• 21:42Speaker 03

  Very supportive.

• 21:42Speaker 02

  Was he?

• 21:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, he was just like.

• 21:44Speaker 02

  I don't remember that.

• 21:45Dax Shepard?

  He was supportive, I even said that, but I bet he was like, what are they doing?

• 21:48Speaker 03

  He was like, you gotta do this, you guys, because we were thinking about buying an apartment or something. And then we were like, let's use that money to open a restaurant. And your father was just like, no, you guys are opening this restaurant.

• 21:57Dax Shepard?

  Was your dad worried that you had had so many interests at this point?

• 22:01Speaker 02

  My parents were both educators. They were not happy I resigned from my career track job at the Department of Education to pursue yoga and then open a pizza restaurant.

• 22:09Speaker 03

  They believed in the vision, right? They were both.

• 22:10Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 22:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, they were both like very supportive.

• 22:12Speaker 02

  He's a very talented chef and they knew that from the get go and so we were doing it, so they got on board. In the beginning, it was a real affair of our family. My mom was there scrubbing sinks.

• 22:22Speaker 03

  My mom was baking some cheesecakes.

• 22:23Speaker 02

  Everyone really jumped in and helped. My sister was one of our first employees, so it was a family affair.

• 22:29Speaker 03

  It's just a manager, basically.

• 22:29Speaker 01

  How old were you both at this time?

• 22:32Speaker 02

  Thirty, what is it, twenty-four?

• 22:34Speaker 03

  I think I was thirty-three.

• 22:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, that sounds about right.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  So early thirties.

• 22:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:38Dax Shepard?

  What was the original menu? It was just pizza or when did the burger arrive?

• 22:41Speaker 03

  So before the burger, we had like five pastas. Was it spogliano or something? Oh, great Brooklyn based pasta. And then that was my real passion too, because I always wanted to cook pasta. Like I have a pasta restaurant with pizza. And then the big burger comes around.

• 22:55Speaker 02

  And that was bored of eating pizza. And so the burger started as something for him.

• 22:59Speaker 03

  Actually, it was the wings first. That's where that sauce came from.

• 23:02Speaker 02

  We had an employee named Tim Nguyen and he really was the catalyst for the Emmy sauce and was crafting and playing and then merged the wing sauce with mayo and the Emmy sauce emerged.

• 23:14Speaker 03

  I made a plate of crispy pig years with the wing sauce on it. And I drizzled the cuppy mayo on top. And then when they mixed together at the bottom, like that became the Emmy sauce.

• 23:22Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 23:23Speaker 03

  Because that sauce was so much better. They started making it for the family meal.

• 23:26Dax Shepard?

  How long into this experiment does that happen?

• 23:29Speaker 03

  That's probably a year and a half.

• 23:30Speaker 02

  That far? I thought it was like six, seven months in. It's all such a blur.

• 23:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm sure.

• 23:35Speaker 03

  I looked at that New York Magazine article and it was like June of 15.

• 23:37Speaker 02

  Oh, maybe it was about a year then, okay, because we hadn't taken any vacation and I was gone with my family when that whole infatuation article came out. Anyway, Matt put the burger. It was for him.

• 23:47Dax Shepard?

  How well was the restaurant doing in that first year?

• 23:49Speaker 02

  It was doing well.

• 23:50Dax Shepard?

  Was it kind of immediately successful?

• 23:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, we were making money. Both of us were working there.

• 23:54Dax Shepard?

  16 hours a day, kind of?

• 23:55Speaker 03

  So we were taking positions.

• 23:56Speaker 02

  25 hours.

• 23:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was rough and we were purposely closed on Tuesdays because most restaurants are closed Monday and we wanted to go out to dinner.

• 24:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:03Speaker 01

  Oh, that's smart.

• 24:05Speaker 03

  Restaurants are always open on Tuesday nights.

• 24:05Speaker 02

  I greeted every single guest and he made every single pizza that first year.

• 24:10Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 24:11Dax Shepard?

  Really?

• 24:12Speaker 02

  It was a lot.

• 24:12Dax Shepard?

  But it was working right away.

• 24:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was.

• 24:15Dax Shepard?

  We went for the first time. You guys would have already been open for probably three or four years.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, because it was a live show.

• 24:22Dax Shepard?

  19, probably, 2019.

• 24:23Speaker 01

  Rob, when was our Brooklyn live show?

• 24:26Dax Shepard?

  I'd say around 18 or 19. It still wasn't a location that would scream this restaurant should be there. And I'm sure the neighborhood's only gotten better in those four years since you opened. So to me, it doesn't seem obvious you guys would have picked that spot. There's not a bunch of other great restaurants all around. Maybe increasingly so, but certainly not at the beginning, right?

• 24:43Speaker 02

  No, not at all.

• 24:44Speaker 03

  Good neighborhood places.

• 24:46Dax Shepard?

  You hit the timing lottery in that a lot of people were moving to Brooklyn and probably people are going to go out and pay for a nice meal.

• 24:52Speaker 01

  I found you because I was doing the thing I do when I go to a new city, which is what are the best new restaurants or best restaurants? And I think you were on Eater.

• 25:01Speaker 03

  The 38.

• 25:01Speaker 01

  Yes, you were on the 38.

• 25:03Dax Shepard?

  You did best burgers specifically, right?

• 25:05Speaker 01

  Maybe I did best burgers.

• 25:05Dax Shepard?

  I think so, because you were like, we gotta go have the burger.

• 25:07Speaker 01

  And I had actually already been, I'd been to the West Village one with your kids when Kristen was shooting a movie there. So this was early. This must have been pretty soon after you guys.

• 25:18Dax Shepard?

  I was shooting Buddy Games.

• 25:19Speaker 01

  You were shooting Buddy Games and she was shooting Like Father. And the kids were really little and I was there to babysit. I like went there to go help and... I must have found like, oh, there's this good pizza place. And I took them, there's a picture of me and the little kids like at the pizza place. I was like, the pizza's so good. I could not believe how good it was. And then the burger, unfortunately, I have not really gone back to the pizza. I want to go back for the pizza.

• 25:46Dax Shepard?

  She drug me. We had a show that night and I had shot the night before a live show up till like 1:00 in the morning. Took a red eye, landed and was like, I'm gonna sleep until the show. And she's like, we've gotta try this burger. So I was a little like, what are we gonna do here? And then I know you've heard me tell the story, I'm sure, or it's gotten to you. We got there and at that time it was $27 for the burger. And I go, this is fucking not, this is ridiculous, Monica, a $27 burger. And I took like three bites and I look at her and I go, this is the most underpriced burger I've ever had in my life. I would spend $55 for this burger and not get it.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  Also, it was packed when we got there. I was like, oh no, we might not be able to get in.

• 26:25Dax Shepard?

  And we went right when it opened at like 5:00 PM. Okay, so it's working right away. And what are the stresses? You're commenting on it. You guys are both working around the clock. You guys, I guess, have Tuesday to not be coworkers. How's that all simmering?

• 26:44Speaker 01

  Not well.

• 26:45Dax Shepard?

  Not well, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's hard, right?

• 26:47Speaker 03

  It wasn't like not well, it was just like, we couldn't take that day off and just like not worry about the restaurant. There's always labor, someone doesn't show up and then a food delivery doesn't happen. That Tuesday, we couldn't be like, let's just go out to dinner and chill and not worry about the restaurant. But we're always like checking our phones. We're always worried about the restaurants.

• 27:03Dax Shepard?

  I think people really do underestimate the amount of work it requires to start a restaurant, wouldn't you say?

• 27:08Speaker 01

  They do. And when you do it with your partner, and we were very solid, I mean, we'd been together for a long time. And felt solid, we weren't able to compartmentalize and everything, 3 o'clock in the morning, arguing in bed over something.

• 27:21Speaker 03

  I feel like actually that didn't happen until Emmy Squirt opened.

• 27:24Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 27:24Speaker 03

  I think the original restaurant, we were a little more.

• 27:26Dax Shepard?

  You were in the probably honeymoon phase of having created something that's.

• 27:29Speaker 03

  Yeah. And then we opened the second one.

• 27:31Speaker 02

  I mean, ask Eboo, he might.

• 27:32Speaker 03

  I love Eboo.

• 27:33Speaker 02

  Our dishwasher is the keeper of all secrets. There's no office because the restaurant basement is so tiny. So we would get in fights in the little wine room and poor Eboo would be like turning the volume up on his jazz.

• 27:44Speaker 01

  Oh, my.

• 27:44Speaker 03

  He's been there since day one.

• 27:46Speaker 02

  But I think, I think a big rift was that Matt was in his calling. I have just these memories of looking across the dining room. It was an open kitchen because we wanted it to feel like an extension of our home. We love to like host things and he would be at the oven glowing in what he was supposed to be doing. And I was missing the mark. I'm very good at operations and systems and hospitality and I was doing well in terms of my performance. But I was really struggling as a human because it wasn't aligned with how I wanted to be spending my time.

• 28:15Speaker 03

  That's why I said I dragged you into it.

• 28:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 28:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was melting down. I didn't have the resilience.

• 28:18Dax Shepard?

  He was living his dream and you weren't living your dream.

• 28:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, and the pressure.

• 28:22Speaker 03

  So supportive though of it. It was amazing, right? It's not like she would ever crack and be like, I don't want to do this anymore. It was just like she was always being like.

• 28:27Speaker 02

  Well, I was good at it, but it was also like I was Emily of Emily, which was weird as an identity thing, too.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:33Speaker 03

  No, no, no, you're right.

• 28:35Dax Shepard?

  But I would say too, when couples work together, and I've worked with my wife a bunch of times. Generally, if someone's having a very stressful moment in their job, the other person necessarily isn't having their most stressful moment.

• 28:47Speaker 02

  Right.

• 28:47Dax Shepard?

  And then vice versa, and often there becomes a nice rhythm of like, okay, it's kind of my time to take up some space. And now it's your time to take up some space. When you're in the exact same pursuit, you're both dealing with the exact same stress at the exact same moment. So it's like, there's no one around who's like outside of the bubble that can be the outside objective person going like, yep, I know. And.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  Or provide comfort.

• 29:09Speaker 03

  Your sister was kind of like that.

• 29:10Speaker 02

  She tried.

• 29:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, she was pretty good.

• 29:12Speaker 01

  In your partnership, you want your partner to be a source of comfort. And if you guys are both experiencing the same.

• 29:18Dax Shepard?

  Stress.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  Stress, neither of you can really be, it's different with us, obviously, because we're not in a relationship, but we're at the same. Stress level at the same time, always, when it comes to the job. That causes fights, that causes friction.

• 29:32Dax Shepard?

  If we can't fill the schedule, we're both

• 29:35Speaker 01

  Stressed out.

• 29:36Dax Shepard?

  Dealing with that, and then something else pops up and it's like, oh yeah, we're already, our baseline is like freaked out about two weeks from now.

• 29:42Speaker 01

  Or we might have differences of opinion on how to handle it, and we both care about it. It's very complicated.

• 29:47Speaker 02

  That was a big part of it. I think we operate from very different perspectives in terms of how we manage. And we're very different people and are very suited not to be together, working or in a relationship at this point, outside of friendly relationship now.

• 30:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 30:01Speaker 02

  And that any kind of fissures that were under the surface that we didn't notice in terms of, we grew up together and we became very different people. So that was really amplified by the pressure cooker of that circumstance.

• 30:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I don't even need to ask what the different vibe was. It's very obvious to me. You're very kind of laid back and you're on a spiritual surf mission. A pizza surf mission, and then you're gonna figure everything out.

• 30:24Speaker 02

  Get it done.

• 30:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 30:25Speaker 03

  We also had different problems at different times in the restaurant. She's very good at front of house stuff. I don't know a lot about that, so she did that thing. And she'd be frustrated by employee problems or like liquor deliveries and stuff like that. And then I'd be in the back of the house, and same thing, where it's like, dough doesn't rise correctly. Where hamburger buns didn't come in. We would have different stresses and try to lean on each other, but when you have different stresses and also trying to come together, it's still hard.

• 30:46Dax Shepard?

  You're not terribly sympathetic to the other person.

• 30:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like, yeah, you know, you know, just go down the street and buy one. It's what's the big deal. Right? It is a big deal.

• 30:52Speaker 01

  Was there ego stuff happening?

• 30:55Dax Shepard?

  Sharing the

• 30:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, sharing the credit.

• 30:57Dax Shepard?

  If you start getting written about and accolades are coming, is that challenging?

• 31:02Speaker 03

  Well, Emily's taking care of all that, right?

• 31:03Speaker 01

  All that stuff.

• 31:04Speaker 03

  She was good at it. Sure, she is good at it. She's good at the publicity. She's good at doing the interviews, setting that stuff up. And she comes in, she's like, don't forget to smile.

• 31:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 31:13Speaker 03

  Things like that.

• 31:13Speaker 02

  Don't speak too quickly in the podcast today.

• 31:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  But did you, Emily, were you like, ah, I'm not really getting the cred? I'm doing a ton of the work.

• 31:23Speaker 02

  And making sure this thing runs.

• 31:26Dax Shepard?

  But the chef is gonna get all the...

• 31:28Speaker 02

  I feel like maybe it was the opposite, and I mean, I don't know. Matt named it after me, which wasn't expected. We really couldn't land on a name. And so then suddenly he names it Emily. And then it becomes this personality that I'm wearing, which was very strange in terms of my identity at that time. And yoga and poetry were stripped away because there was no time for anything else. And so I was very much that. And because I was forward facing, I do feel like maybe there was some unconscious, under the surface friction where you were doing all of this, but I was the person with the camera on me, even though you didn't want that.

• 32:01Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, like if I created the burger, and then Emily's doing an interview about how great the burger is and just won all these awards, I might be like, yeah, but also I created the burger.

• 32:11Speaker 03

  She's a hype person then, right? Why would I try to force my way into do something that she's better at doing? She's not gonna come and cook the burger.

• 32:16Dax Shepard?

  I mean, that's extremely healthy.

• 32:18Speaker 02

  It is.

• 32:18Dax Shepard?

  Point of view.

• 32:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:19Dax Shepard?

  But under stress and everything else, that would be hard for me to always manage.

• 32:23Speaker 03

  I'm okay with her being Emily and being front facing. And then like I make the food in the back. That's like the mom and pop shop, right?

• 32:28Speaker 02

  But it got very complicated. So we opened the West Village. We literally signed on with our growth partners, opened the West Village.

• 32:36Dax Shepard?

  Did they approach you or did you go seeking for...

• 32:37Speaker 02

  They approached us with all the acclaim and everything. And then that same month is when our marriage fell apart. And so then the brand is Pizza Loves Emily. It's built on our love story.

• 32:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 32:48Speaker 02

  And that felt very challenging. And I think that's when personalities, egos, whatever you want to call it.

• 32:53Dax Shepard?

  Hurt in all these things.

• 32:55Speaker 03

  I thought more people would care that we got divorced in the sense of publicity, right? Like, nobody cared.

• 33:00Speaker 02

  I don't think a lot of people know. I was gonna say, I was gonna say, I doubt they know.

• 33:04Speaker 03

  Okay, maybe that's the point.

• 33:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 33:05Speaker 02

  So...

• 33:05Speaker 03

  Maybe nobody knows.

• 33:06Dax Shepard?

  Before we get there, when we go to the village, we name it Emmy Square.

• 33:11Speaker 02

  It's still Pizza Loves Emily, but it was like a mishmash.

• 33:14Dax Shepard?

  Well, Williamsburg came first, you know?

• 33:15Speaker 02

  Williamsburg did. That was the flagship Emmy Squared.

• 33:17Dax Shepard?

  Pizza Loves Emily was Williamsburg.

• 33:20Speaker 03

  No, there's...

• 33:20Speaker 02

  No, it was West Village. So we have Emily Original in Clinton Hill. Emmy Squared opens in Williamsburg in 2016.

• 33:27Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 33:27Speaker 02

  And then we open the Pizza Loves Emily kind of combo.

• 33:30Dax Shepard?

  In West Village.

• 33:31Speaker 02

  In West Village.

• 33:34Speaker 04

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 33:40Dax Shepard?

  We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. That's smart. Not checking the pockets of your jeans before doing laundry? Classic oversight. That mystery clunking in the dryer? Yeah, that was your lip balm's final moments. And somehow, there's always one random receipt in there to dissolve into confetti. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary, subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Allstate North America Insurance Co. and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. This episode is supported by Helix.

• 34:18Speaker 01

  Dax, is there anything better than crawling into a perfect bed on a cold fall night? Candlelit, hoodie on, maybe even some rain outside? The dream.

• 34:28Dax Shepard?

  That's the dream. You just described one of my ideal fall nights.

• 34:33Speaker 01

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• 34:49Dax Shepard?

  Increasingly so.

• 34:50Speaker 01

  I need it. I have to have it. And I heard that you're supposed to sleep at a cold temp for optimal sleep. It's very, very helpful.

• 35:00Dax Shepard?

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• 35:20Speaker 01

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• 35:27Dax Shepard?

  Go to helixsleep.com/armchair for 20% off sitewide. That's helixsleep.com/armchair for 20% off sitewide. Helixsleep.com/armchair. This episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. Look, I have my dream job. I get to talk to folks I admire like crazy and ask them virtually any question that I want to. I can't imagine a better way to spend my time. But even dream jobs have some not so dreamy parts. The stuff that gets in the way of the actual work. Now that's where ServiceNow's AI specialists come in. They don't just tell you what you should do about your busy work. They actually do it, start to finish.

• 36:11Dax Shepard?

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• 36:22Speaker 01

  They never are.

• 36:23Dax Shepard?

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• 36:54Speaker 05

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• 37:36Speaker 05

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• 37:58Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so what is Emmy Squared? How's it gonna differ from Emily?

• 38:02Speaker 02

  Matt wanted to do a second concept, wanted to grow the brand.

• 38:06Speaker 03

  I went to like a square slice place right next door to the original one.

• 38:09Speaker 02

  He used to make a lot of focaccia sheet pan pies for us at home, which was delicious. And loves a frico crust, right? And so, found his backdoor entry into what the amazingness of Detroit style pizza is.

• 38:19Speaker 03

  We ordered a bunch of frozen from Buddy's.

• 38:21Speaker 02

  From Buddy's, yeah.

• 38:22Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, I grew up eating at Buddy's.

• 38:24Speaker 02

  So, my nickname, he called me Emmy, and so is Emmy Square Pizza, second location, Emmy Squared. And that also took off and has a great burger on that menu.

• 38:33Speaker 03

  Le Big Mac is a different burger.

• 38:35Dax Shepard?

  You created the Le Big Mac for Emmy Squared.

• 38:37Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 38:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:38Dax Shepard?

  So now, here's the part I really relate to, which is I have my own identity, and then my wife has her own identity. And then we have a shared identity, which is us doing commercials together. I know I read an interview where you were talking about that fear of, oh, we have this other thing, we have this combined identity, which is these restaurants. And they're famous, these restaurants, and they're getting written about. You're winning lots of awards and stuff. And yeah, that's an interesting third person in a relationship. Every couple has a shared identity at a dinner party, but I think when you have a very public-facing shared identity, it's quite complicated, would you agree? You can start feel like you're servicing this third thing and not the original thing.

• 39:22Speaker 02

  I think a struggle for me with that was, it felt performative, and that's not how I operated in terms of the founding of the original. And Matt would always say, it's a business, it's not emotional, it's a business, it's not personal.

• 39:35Speaker 03

  Well, I think the original one's personal and emotional.

• 39:37Speaker 02

  Well, so, in terms of that third member of the relationship, that was our custody battle during the divorce, was the reason we still co-own and operate Emily's, because neither of us could.

• 39:47Dax Shepard?

  Par with it, that was the child, you were gonna have shared custody, no matter what.

• 39:51Speaker 02

  It really complicated things. And then the copy for the cookbook was due that summer that our marriage fell apart. So I'm writing our love story.

• 39:57Dax Shepard?

  Emily, the cookbook.

• 39:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. We met over a pepperoni olive pizza, sitting on the floor of the dorm. So it was all just very weird.

• 40:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, did you feel fraudulent?

• 40:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:07Dax Shepard?

  And were you starting to wonder, like, if I let that whole identity go, who am I?

• 40:13Speaker 02

  Yes. And I took a leave of absence from the business, because I couldn't function.

• 40:17Dax Shepard?

  Because of that tension?

• 40:18Speaker 02

  In terms of all of it, yeah, I left and never really. Came back in in the same way because then pandemic came and everything changed. And I mean, it all worked out for the better, but that had a huge impact on my role as an operator of the business.

• 40:31Dax Shepard?

  And Matt, how were you dealing with the death of this third identity?

• 40:35Speaker 03

  I sort of mentally left also. I was still kind of going through the process of it. And I think restaurants, they can be like a beautiful stage, like a staged area. I would try to separate personal feelings in a restaurant, just being like, okay, we're going on. And it's more of just like, let's do this performative thing. And then like, you know, be done and then whatever. But I'd mentally basically checked out.

• 40:53Dax Shepard?

  Not that you were in an abusive relationship, but it does remind me of like Cher was hating Living with Sonny. And then they would go do the show, which actually loved the show because they could be their old selves there. It was like this weird little sanctuary from all their problems.

• 41:05Speaker 03

  It was always weird when Emily wasn't at the restaurant because it's just like, I don't trust anyone but her to be in front and do that stuff. Because even though we had our differences like in marriage, always the restaurant, there's never like an argument about it really. It's just like, this is what we're doing and we knew it. We always had each other's back when it came to the restaurant. So when she wasn't there, I just felt alone there. My partner is not here to guarantee it's going to go well because that's what she does.

• 41:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 41:27Speaker 02

  Nice to know.

• 41:30Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 41:30Speaker 03

  It's true.

• 41:31Dax Shepard?

  I say to this to my wife all the time when we work together, I literally can't help but say like, oh, you're my favorite person to work with. You're so good, always, immediately, you're easy to work with. If we got divorced, I'd still love working with her. She's still the easiest person for me to work with. She's just such a professional and we have such a communication working together.

• 41:52Speaker 03

  And she's always got your back too, right?

• 41:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. It's very fascinating how you can have these compartmentalized relationships within a relationship and all of it's happening at the same time.

• 42:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:01Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 42:02Speaker 02

  There's no breathing room.

• 42:03Speaker 01

  Were the Fishers, so they were not about the restaurant? I mean, obviously everything's all tied in, everything's muddy and it's a soup, but were the breaking points not connected to the restaurant?

• 42:15Speaker 02

  I think they were connected to the restaurant. It was so enmeshed. I mean, our life was just that and we were angry at each other. And I don't want to speak for you, but I feel like it's fair to say we were angry at each other and just not on the same page and our interests were divergent.

• 42:30Dax Shepard?

  You guys did this amazing thing in New York Magazine, maybe I read Unhitched or something, some column.

• 42:36Speaker 02

  Oh, New York Times, when my first book came out.

• 42:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you were saying, I mean, look, you guys met in college as sophomores and you're now into yoga and you're on a path and you're a chef, dude. That's what you live for and want to pursue and. They're not getting closer together, these interests. They're getting further apart. And neither of you want to do each other's thing, per se, in the off time. That's getting older.

• 42:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:59Speaker 03

  We just kind of grow up and our friendship took a hit, obviously, because we're getting divorced.

• 43:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 43:04Speaker 03

  But like after that, come back together. We're still fans of each other being in the original restaurant. We still have each other's back when it comes to the original.

• 43:12Speaker 01

  That took years, though.

• 43:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, but, you know, on the other side.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:15Speaker 03

  We've both grown up into like adults with separate interests. We can still have relatable things like the restaurant and just life in general.

• 43:21Speaker 02

  We've had some of our first healing conversations about our relationship just this past year.

• 43:27Speaker 01

  Okay, I was gonna ask how long this, because it looks from the outside that you're very comfortable with one another and still good friends.

• 43:34Dax Shepard?

  You're both remarried.

• 43:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. Two people we're much more suited to be with. His wife is lovely, my husband is amazing.

• 43:41Speaker 01

  Some people never get there, right? After a divorce where they can say that, they can say, his wife is lovely. Like, that doesn't happen all the time, so you guys obviously took some care.

• 43:51Speaker 02

  Thank God she's here to referee while we've been in LA together.

• 43:55Speaker 02

  Thank God for Simone this week is all I'm gonna say. Otherwise, there would have been tears for sure.

• 44:00Speaker 03

  We're all fine, right? Went to the club.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  I had his number blocked up until, I guess, we sold Emmy Square.

• 44:06Speaker 01

  That's good to know, because I think most people can't relate to, well, we got divorced and we're just still best friends. That's not normal.

• 44:13Speaker 02

  No, yeah. There was a lot of drama, a lot of pain, and it's only recently that in our therapeutic work separately. I mean, I think a big part of it was, which we just recently talked about. We both come from very codependent family of origins. And so at 18 and 20 years old, we just perpetuated those behaviors. And now that we can look back and start unwinding some of those narratives, it's like, oh, we can see how we were doing that and how we're different than that now. So this is actually the healthiest, I feel like, we've ever been, honestly.

• 44:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 44:42Speaker 03

  We had fun this week, too.

• 44:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. What kind of pains came with growing? I think that seems daunting. Perfecting Emily seems doable. And then two more. How was that challenging? And how do you oversight it? You guys must have both cared so much about it having the same quality at all three. What were the kind of the challenges that were popping up?

• 45:05Speaker 02

  Before you get to the food, I didn't want to grow it. Let's get back to our life. Emily is functioning. I don't want to do more. And Matt was like, this is our chance to do this. We're doing it. And thank God, I mean, we did. It changed our lives. But I think that was a core moment of strife, just in terms of, okay, now I'm helping to scale this thing that's already overwhelming me, that my nervous system can barely handle. I'm completely a hot mess as a human.

• 45:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. And now you're gonna times that by three.

• 45:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:33Speaker 03

  I took a more scientific approach to it. I knew I wanted to cook the square pies in a convection oven, which is like the big oven with the fan in the back of it. But then like every time you open the oven, like it cools down, right? And then you start with inconsistencies, and then you need timers, and you have to trust who's putting it in. And so I went to like, I think a Jets or something. I don't know. I remember there's like chain pizza places that has a conveyor belt oven. And I was like, oh, you know what?

• 45:54Dax Shepard?

  This is it.

• 45:54Speaker 03

  Every time a pizza goes through, it'll be the same. It'll be the same. Won't lose any heat. Such a complete opposite of wood fired oven, where it's like so high maintenance, and you got your temperature right, and your hot spots, and this and that. So it's like, well, I just made the actual cooking process easier, right?

• 46:08Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:10Speaker 03

  It gets topped, and then it goes in, and then it comes out.

• 46:12Speaker 02

  Because labor is impossible to monitor when you're scaling.

• 46:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:16Speaker 03

  Having even that little control where you could take one person out of the kitchen was helpful. But then obviously Emily's dealing with the front of house, and just a whole new squad of like.

• 46:23Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, there's no way to mechanize that.

• 46:25Speaker 03

  Yeah. Thankfully, you're a teacher, because I'd like walk upstairs from the kitchen, and there'd be like a white.

• 46:30Speaker 02

  Love my chart paper markers.

• 46:31Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, chart paper. Chart paper, basically teaching the staff how we want this done. And being a teacher really worked out for that.

• 46:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, I really enjoyed doing staff trainings, especially as the ME squared organization grew. I helped open a few of those restaurants, and would do that and build the curriculum for that in the early days. And so that was an enjoyable part of scaling things. But how do you maintain the special texture and dimension of this ethos, this energy?

• 46:57Speaker 02

  With thirty locations. Yeah, it's hard.

• 46:59Dax Shepard?

  Before we get to that, where did the crinkle cut french fries come from? As a fan, yeah, the waffle fries.

• 47:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:05Dax Shepard?

  How did they come about? I mean, they're not as good as burger, but they're pushing up against it.

• 47:10Speaker 03

  I usually cook and put stuff on the menu that I want to eat. So the original restaurant has straight fries. Emily West Village has curly fries.

• 47:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's right.

• 47:18Speaker 03

  I don't know if it still does, but then Emmy Squirt has.

• 47:20Dax Shepard?

  Now it has waffles.

• 47:21Speaker 03

  That one does waffle.

• 47:21Dax Shepard?

  Hey, West Village, I'm just there, yeah?

• 47:23Speaker 03

  But they used to have curly fries. So I wanted each one of my restaurants to have different fries. I'd go to that restaurant, be like, these are the fries I want to eat today.

• 47:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:30Dax Shepard?

  But when you sit down to design a waffle fry, what does one do?

• 47:33Speaker 03

  Oh, these comes in frozen.

• 47:34Dax Shepard?

  Oh, OK, OK.

• 47:35Speaker 03

  We were making our own fries at Clinton Hill.

• 47:37Speaker 02

  It wasn't sustainable.

• 47:38Speaker 03

  Well, we served like ten burgers a night before it got popular.

• 47:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:40Speaker 03

  You know, so it's like making your own fries. It's easy because we're going to sell ten burgers and like three hundred pizzas. And then when the burger exploded, it's like, uh-oh.

• 47:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, if you've ever stood at the counter at In-N-Out and watched them actually make the fries manually, there is someone on that fucking smasher all day long.

• 47:55Speaker 03

  It's not a great way to make fries, though. One of them will cook your fries.

• 47:58Dax Shepard?

  You cook them, then you freeze them, then you cook them again? Is that what happens?

• 48:00Speaker 03

  I did three cooks. I do like a cook in a baking soda bath, sort of like circulate them in a circulator, and then do a par fry until they got slightly brown. And then we cool them down and pour them in a little baggie. And then when the order comes in, then it goes in the fryer.

• 48:13Dax Shepard?

  No wonder. I do feel like I'm going through six or seven layers of the waffle fries. Crunch, crunch, crunch, crunch, ooh, gooey.

• 48:21Speaker 02

  It's a good fry.

• 48:22Dax Shepard?

  So once the three were up and running, weirdly, I can't believe I've never been to the Williamsburg one. I'm just learning. Oh, it did. I'm never gonna.

• 48:31Speaker 03

  It's unfortunate. It's so beautiful, too. We had like this cool bar in the basement.

• 48:35Speaker 02

  The burger bar.

• 48:35Speaker 03

  The burger bar. So we always serve burgers in the basement.

• 48:37Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 48:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:38Speaker 03

  There's a bar down there.

• 48:39Dax Shepard?

  Did you ever go there?

• 48:40Speaker 02

  That part of the neighborhood changed a lot during COVID.

• 48:43Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 48:44Speaker 02

  Dang. Right down by the BQE.

• 48:46Dax Shepard?

  So those three, you had the original, then you had partners in the second and the third, right? And is it the same partners that then became a part of this thirty?

• 48:55Speaker 02

  Yep, so we have this restaurant businessman, Howard Greenstone, who found us and I had strange, random like family ties.

• 49:02Speaker 03

  You babysat his kid or something, right?

• 49:04Speaker 02

  No, I grew up next door to his brother's family. So like his nephews and I grew up together.

• 49:08Speaker 01

  Weird.

• 49:08Speaker 02

  So weird, but there were many people sniffing around and it felt like with that connection, Howard was the person. He had the vision to scale it in this way that we didn't have those skills. And so he really shepherded this journey into what Emmy Squared has become.

• 49:24Dax Shepard?

  Does he call and say, hey, we have one here? Or does he call and say, hey, what do you think about being here?

• 49:28Speaker 03

  There's like a big research team now. So we have like a real estate agent lawyer and they are in charge of, let's look at this lease. Is it a good lease? Is it what we're looking for?

• 49:35Speaker 02

  What's the foot traffic?

• 49:36Dax Shepard?

  Assessing the neighborhood.

• 49:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's not necessarily like when we found the original or we found like Williamsburg or West Village. It was sort of like we stumbled on them and they were cool.

• 49:44Speaker 02

  Well, it was in our heart and now it's a company, so it's a little bit different.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:47Speaker 03

  Well, when we found the locations, we were like, oh, these are exciting locations. But now it's just sort of a little more like corporate people finding the location.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  Right, what will work in this like city.

• 49:56Speaker 03

  Especially with like that many restaurants, it's not about your gut feeling anymore.

• 49:59Speaker 01

  To work.

• 49:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, it needs to work.

• 50:00Dax Shepard?

  Well, you have to be kind of an expert on the area to understand.

• 50:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:03Dax Shepard?

  So do you guys like Ray Crockett and drive around and stop at different ones to check the quality?

• 50:09Speaker 03

  We used to. We haven't done that since it got very big.

• 50:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 50:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, because at some point you almost have to divorce yourself from all the personal things. So what happens if you go in and then you're like, ah, I don't like this about this. That's too much, probably.

• 50:24Speaker 03

  Micromanaging with 30 restaurants doesn't work.

• 50:26Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 50:27Dax Shepard?

  I mean, it's a dumb analogy, but like, yeah, if we had to go listen to a podcast that was somehow armchair expert, but it wasn't us, that would be very bizarre. I can hardly even imagine what that experience would be like.

• 50:38Speaker 03

  I would say for me, it was a little bit of relief in a way where, you know, we have a corporate chef. He takes care of the training. If I want to do something, he'll make it happen. I was in Nashville a few weeks ago with him. You know, we started coming with some dishes and it was fun and I can be creative, he can be creative, but he can.

• 50:52Dax Shepard?

  Implement all that.

• 50:53Speaker 03

  Every single restaurant have different ordering people, so he's good at that.

• 50:56Speaker 02

  It is though weird whenever I'm in the city, I'll go to the West Village and walk by or take my picture there, but to be the person who was picking out things down to the paint color on the walls, which was mushroom bisque, by the way.

• 51:08Speaker 03

  That's right. I was like, we have to have mushroom.

• 51:09Speaker 02

  The ceiling is shaken, not stirred. Fun facts, but nobody in that restaurant would know me as Emily, or if I come in and I'm like, hi, I'm Emily. I mean, like if I walk into the front of the house there, they wouldn't know I'm Emily of Emily. I can go see Oz in the basement, sure, but it's different to be removed in that way.

• 51:27Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, does it feel sad?

• 51:29Speaker 02

  It just feels like a very different time and place in my life. And then Emily Original, though, our first hire, Ibu, shout out to Ibu, he's this amazing, talented Senegalese artist, by the way, who is our dishwasher extraordinaire, but he's been there since day one. Sammy.

• 51:43Speaker 03

  Sammy's the burger guy.

• 51:44Speaker 02

  Who cooked every burger you've ever eaten, has been there.

• 51:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:47Speaker 02

  So we have a lot of folks that have been with us through the whole thing at the Original, but it changes when a company grows.

• 51:54Dax Shepard?

  So he's the head chef, Sammy, so he's been there for 12 years now?

• 51:57Speaker 03

  I think he started 2015.

• 51:59Speaker 02

  About a year in.

• 52:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, about a year in, and he was a prep guy.

• 52:01Speaker 02

  Thank God for Sammy.

• 52:02Speaker 03

  And then it just kind of works its way out. Somebody just didn't show up to work. I'm like, Sammy, let's cook these burgers. And then the first day, he's up there cooking burgers with me, it's just like, he's like, yo, I want to do this all day. It's like, you got it, man.

• 52:13Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 52:14Speaker 03

  It's like, let's do this. And then it's like thousands of people just cooking every single burger. And he'd watch me every single time. He didn't like touch a burger until like six months in, basically, because I just had him there assisting with like onions, putting the sauce on the burger. We just go through it over and over.

• 52:26Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, I'm starving.

• 52:27Dax Shepard?

  I want the burgers.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:29Speaker 02

  I mean, in retrospect, we should have coordinated so that he could have cooked you burgers.

• 52:34Dax Shepard?

  Oh. I've gotten the kit like four or five times, and it works out very well. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 52:41Speaker 01

  Gold belly, if you can't get to a restaurant, that will kill you.

• 52:44Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and the hack is, the instructions are perfect. They really walk you through it, but putting the bun on the patty while it's sizzling is primo to get it nice and steamy and juicy.

• 52:54Speaker 01

  So good.

• 52:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Okay, so, things blew up. You retreated to New Mexico.

• 53:00Speaker 02

  Before that, I was just hunkered down in Brooklyn, helping open a yoga studio there.

• 53:05Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 53:06Speaker 03

  Before New Mexico? Pandemic or after?

• 53:08Speaker 02

  No, just.

• 53:09Dax Shepard?

  2018.

• 53:10Speaker 02

  It blew up between us.

• 53:11Speaker 03

  Oh, okay.

• 53:11Dax Shepard?

  In the article, there was a big fight in front of Emily.

• 53:14Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 53:14Dax Shepard?

  That was time to regroup.

• 53:16Speaker 02

  I spent the night in Central Booking in downtown Brooklyn.

• 53:18Dax Shepard?

  Because you were arrested for hitting Matt with a bag.

• 53:21Speaker 02

  What? Yep. Wait, wait, wait, wait. We're gonna have to talk about this. I was charged with assault with a weapon, a canvas bag. Oh, boy. Two cops were walking. No, I, yeah, and student essays from teaching at Cooney. I had just a bunch of college essays to grade. So you just took your aggression out? Yeah, I lost it on him in a way I've never been so disembodied. I found out something about someone he was dating and it activated me. And two officers were walking by.

• 53:49Speaker 03

  It was so random. Two cops that popped out of the subway exactly when it happened.

• 53:52Speaker 02

  As opposed to do their basic duty and deescalate what was clearly a marital dispute and solve the problem. They wound up handcuffing me and arresting me. And I was taken downtown right at like 5 o'clock. So then I wound up staying overnight. Oh, God. Yeah. Oh, God, it was horrible. My mom had chemo the next morning. So my dad and my mom and my sister and her brand new husband, who was like, what the fuck's going on in this family? Were like walking around in downtown Brooklyn, trying to get enough money out of the ATMs to like stuff it in my sister's pocket so that tomorrow she could come out and make bail. And that was the lowest moment of my life.

• 54:29Dax Shepard?

  I was gonna say, what kind of emotional clarity came from sitting in the jail?

• 54:34Speaker 02

  The beauty of that was that moment changed my life because there was also a restraining order put on me to be around him. All of this was dropped and sealed and dismissed. But because of that, I was very much pining and desperately wanting to keep the restaurant alive and begging and pleading. And Matt was just firm lying in the sand, like this is over, I'm moving on, which thank God he held that boundary because as much as I beat up against it, that was good. But the restraining order was a next level of like, boundary or else you're gonna be in trouble. And I actually met my forever husband, Jeff. So I spent the night in Central Booking on Thursday. And then I went on a date with Jeff that Monday night. And my friend at the yoga, my friend at the yoga studio, I was very erratic that weekend. I feel like I went on a bunch of dates.

• 55:19Speaker 02

  And she was like, maybe you should. Be going on dates right now. And I was like, I'm going on this date with this guy. I'm going. And then I wound up telling him everything and he thought it was hysterical. He's my husband, but that boundary of the restraining order, this was done. I cannot go over there. I saw this beautiful, the Rumi quote, "The wound is where the light enters," on the side of this church that next morning. And the light just entered from the depths of the wound.

• 55:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. The universe is weird and you probably needed some weird nudge in the form of a restraining order. To go, okay, now we have to choose another path.

• 55:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:52Dax Shepard?

  This one is a dead end.

• 55:53Speaker 02

  And there was the most amusing part about that restraining order. So the cookbook was now at this point about to debut.

• 56:00Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 56:00Speaker 02

  And so there was a caveat in the restraining order that I was allowed to be with Matt for the book launch. Yeah. And that was the first time. The first time we saw each other from the moment of this thing on the street. Was sitting at Greenlight bookstore signing cookbooks.

• 56:18Speaker 01

  And you were pretending.

• 56:19Dax Shepard?

  The love cookbook.

• 56:20Speaker 02

  Yep, it was awful.

• 56:21Dax Shepard?

  This is so human. I love it.

• 56:22Speaker 02

  Oh, God, it was awful.

• 56:23Speaker 01

  This is making me feel itchy.

• 56:26Speaker 03

  In retrospect, they escorted me down to the subway police station, Hoyt Schimmelhorn in Brooklyn. And like, take your shirt off. So we take pictures of you. And I was just like, eh.

• 56:35Speaker 02

  After.

• 56:35Dax Shepard?

  To document the abuse.

• 56:37Speaker 03

  Stop all over my side here. And they're like, can you take your shirt off? I was like, I don't really want to get in the police station.

• 56:42Speaker 02

  It smacked you that hard.

• 56:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was completely bruised. I was completely.

• 56:46Speaker 02

  I don't want to say you deserved it because I don't.

• 56:48Speaker 03

  The entire, the entire year my side was bruised.

• 56:52Speaker 03

  So can you imagine like a cop in the subway is like, all right, take your shirt off.

• 56:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:58Dax Shepard?

  Get your shirt off, kid.

• 56:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, you probably both were like, what is my life?

• 57:02Speaker 03

  I shouldn't have gone there.

• 57:03Speaker 01

  Well, the restaurant was doing so well. To have your business be doing so well and your personal life be doing so poorly. That's such a mindfuck. It looks like this, but it's so the opposite in real life is really hard.

• 57:18Dax Shepard?

  It feels like if you're like me and your modus operandi is the shoe's always gonna drop. To me in some weird be confirming and validating my story.

• 57:28Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 57:29Dax Shepard?

  Which is like, yeah, I knew it's too good to be true. I don't deserve this. Look what a fucked up mess this is because of course this is too good for me to have.

• 57:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like imposter syndrome, right?

• 57:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like in some weird way, the beat downs are like, yeah, that's right. That's what it should be because I don't deserve. A spectacular restaurant that everyone loves and are getting awards for.

• 57:46Speaker 01

  But it's tricky because then you can self sabotage. You can pause it. You can like pause these things, you know?

• 57:52Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah. Oh, we're so weird and complicated. I love it.

• 57:56Speaker 01

  I know.

• 57:56Speaker 02

  My sister was at that point on the emergency call list to pop in for a service at the bar. And so this all happens and our manager is like, fuck, okay, I need to call Emily's sister. And so my sister was at some sort of event and she's getting calls from Meg thinking it's a Thursday night. Meg is calling me to come in and do a bar shift at the restaurant. I'm not picking up. Meg keeps calling her. She's like, why the fuck is Meg calling me? I'm not gonna work tonight at the restaurant. And then she finally picks up and it's like, oh, your sister is somewhere in the New York City prison system right now.

• 58:26Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. Wow.

• 58:30Speaker 03

  I think that's where they held El Chapo too at the same time. You're in there at the same time as if.

• 58:35Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 58:36Dax Shepard?

  Okay, now, the second chapter of everyone's life, which is landed beautifully. So you went on the date with the dude on a Thursday after the Monday arrest.

• 58:47Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:48Dax Shepard?

  But you do go to New Mexico, to Santa Fe, to do some kind of a grieving workshop.

• 58:54Speaker 02

  I was seeing this amazing acupuncturist during the separation, the divorce, and she was giving me these homework assignments, like, go flirt with a barista, get me into some competency, things that were low stakes. And then finally she was like, you need to go take a trip by yourself somewhere, do something. I Googled writing retreat, New Mexico. I had no reason to type that in and up pops this, writing your story of loss and transformation, which was a grief retreat at this beautiful center called Ghost Ranch, which I highly recommend. I landed there and was like, I've never felt called somewhere like this and so I want to get here. And pandemic just for an array of reasons. Expedited that experience. So yeah, we moved there in 2022 and then got married. And if you look at pictures of me from when I was arrested and when I was at the peak

• 59:39Speaker 02

  success of my life, I was almost 250 pounds, drinking two bottles of wine a night, you know, like not a healthy human. Yeah. Mexico has also been just this resurgence of me getting to be me. So you live there now, permanent?

• 59:52Dax Shepard?

  And you're a yoga instructor?

• 59:53Speaker 02

  Oh, wow. I am. I co-own and direct a studio called Yoga Source.

• 59:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 59:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. Gosh, so you got there? Yeah.

• 59:59Dax Shepard?

  I still think the ice creams were interesting then.

• 1:00:03Dax Shepard?

  And you published Divorce Business Partners?

• 1:00:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, which I saw is on your shelf. Yes, yes, we have it.

• 1:00:07Dax Shepard?

  So what year did that come out?

• 1:00:09Speaker 02

  That came out in 2024. There's a great poem in there about my night in jail, just saying.

• 1:00:14Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:00:14Speaker 02

  About bodily functions in jail. Oh.

• 1:00:17Dax Shepard?

  We love bodily functions.

• 1:00:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:21Speaker 02

  And then my second book is coming out, My Wise Little Ghosts There, officially in July.

• 1:00:26Dax Shepard?

  And that's all poems?

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  It is, yeah, narrative poems. So that's about processing the abortion I had during our divorce to add more strife to the whole situation.

• 1:00:34Dax Shepard?

  Sure, sure.

• 1:00:35Speaker 02

  I wound up getting pregnant.

• 1:00:36Dax Shepard?

  Throw that in there.

• 1:00:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, a week after everything fell apart. And so processing that experience of grief through the lens of psychedelic therapy, which has been just life-changing for me.

• 1:00:45Dax Shepard?

  Psilocybin or ayahuasca?

• 1:00:47Speaker 02

  Psilocybin predominantly.

• 1:00:48Dax Shepard?

  Okay. And LSD?

• 1:00:49Speaker 02

  No, some MDMA therapy.

• 1:00:51Dax Shepard?

  Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:51Speaker 02

  I had a preventative double mastectomy three years ago, and so I started the psychedelic therapy to help integrate what felt like a very Frankenstein-y torso. Yeah. So the MDMA helped with that. And then as I graduated to the psilocybin, this whole experience of healing with who would have been my daughter came through in this book.

• 1:01:13Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:01:14Speaker 02

  Wow. So, yeah.

• 1:01:15Dax Shepard?

  Just to wrap up your story, and you kind of said it, I'm having the greatest success of my life and things are the lowest. I think this is a bizarrely common experience. And to think that you're happiest now.

• 1:01:27Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 1:01:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you, okay, so Matt, how did you meet your wife? You ended up absconding to Austin, which is my favorite city.

• 1:01:37Speaker 03

  Oh, we got a good barbecue truck there.

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 1:01:39Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I'm going at the end of the month. Where is this barbecue truck?

• 1:01:41Speaker 03

  Fifteen minutes north of the river.

• 1:01:43Speaker 01

  Oh, let him feed you barbecue.

• 1:01:44Dax Shepard?

  By the campus?

• 1:01:45Speaker 03

  No, it's above the campus.

• 1:01:46Dax Shepard?

  Probably by your, what's your hotel you like?

• 1:01:49Speaker 01

  Oh, Commodore Perry?

• 1:01:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's beautiful. Oh, my God, the food is so good.

• 1:01:52Dax Shepard?

  Is it anywhere near there?

• 1:01:54Speaker 03

  No, it's near where like all the big tech campuses are.

• 1:01:56Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay. She gets arrested, she has, uh, she has a restraining order, she goes on her journey. What do you do after that arrest? How do you start to rebuild?

• 1:02:06Speaker 03

  Our business partner Howard created a restaurant out of nowhere for me to like do something.

• 1:02:11Dax Shepard?

  To escape to?

• 1:02:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, we got a Michelin award for that, like a bimba man, which is really great.

• 1:02:15Dax Shepard?

  What kind of restaurant was that?

• 1:02:17Speaker 03

  We did grilled pizza, just like Al Forno in Providence, which was our favorite restaurant.

• 1:02:20Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 1:02:21Speaker 03

  We did grilled pizza and then like it just couldn't survive through pandemic. People took advantage of the protests to like riot. That was unfortunate because the protests were happening and we were supportive. But then we got broken into and our liquor was stolen. So like people were abusing the protest.

• 1:02:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:34Speaker 03

  And then we're just like, fuck it, like everything's like trash.

• 1:02:36Dax Shepard?

  Really quick, when you win a Michelin star.

• 1:02:38Speaker 03

  It's right below the star, it's the bimba man, so it's almost a star.

• 1:02:41Dax Shepard?

  Do they present you with a plaque?

• 1:02:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's in my kitchen.

• 1:02:44Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so the plaque is in your kitchen.

• 1:02:46Speaker 01

  And that got a Times review too, Violet, right?

• 1:02:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, it got a Times review. Pete Wells is from Rhode Island and we kind of did some Rhode Island-y stuff. So after like a month, he reviewed it like quickly. We caught him there twice and then Dale told the.

• 1:02:56Dax Shepard?

  Really quick, these reviewers come unannounced, obviously, right?

• 1:02:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, but like everyone knows.

• 1:03:00Dax Shepard?

  And what happens when they arrive? Everyone shits their pants?

• 1:03:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, everyone's just like, you know, like he's here. And it's like Dale was more experienced with dealing with reviewers. So he's just like, we make two of every dish and then we taste each one. And then one goes out to him and the other one just, it doesn't matter.

• 1:03:14Speaker 01

  Goes in the trash.

• 1:03:15Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, it could be by a dishwasher or something.

• 1:03:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:03:18Speaker 03

  So he was very good with that.

• 1:03:20Speaker 01

  Scary.

• 1:03:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, also, how do you take a bite out of each dish without fucking up the dish?

• 1:03:24Speaker 03

  Well, it depends on the dish, right? It wasn't like we'd been a burger.

• 1:03:26Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but every, or, or pizza.

• 1:03:28Speaker 01

  They're probably the sauce, all the ingredients.

• 1:03:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, like, you know, he ordered a few pastas.

• 1:03:32Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:03:34Speaker 03

  I had met Simone maybe a few months before that opened.

• 1:03:36Dax Shepard?

  In New York?

• 1:03:37Speaker 03

  In New York, yeah. She had a restaurant nearby called Little Tongue, or she had a few of them. I'd been to them, but like I never knew her. And then I became friends with her publicist and then we started going and then kind of started dating through that way.

• 1:03:48Dax Shepard?

  Do chefs share a common bond?

• 1:03:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, we like to complain to each other about like labor and people not showing up and things that have gone wrong. So yeah, there's a camaraderie there of chefs. Compared to there aren't a lot of female chefs compared to male chefs in New York. You know, when I met Simone, I was like, oh, cool. It's like a female chef.

• 1:04:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. That's hot.

• 1:04:05Speaker 03

  That was in May of 2019. And then we started really dating in October and then she got pregnant like three months later.

• 1:04:11Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:04:12Speaker 03

  She was pregnant all during pandemic and our son was born in August of 2020, which was so bizarre.

• 1:04:18Speaker 01

  To bring a baby in at that time feels like, ah.

• 1:04:21Speaker 03

  We didn't know if groceries would be infected, right? Like there's a time since like you wipe down groceries.

• 1:04:25Speaker 01

  Being in a hospital to.

• 1:04:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, and also that.

• 1:04:27Dax Shepard?

  Also, New York was uniquely visible and hard compared to other places.

• 1:04:31Speaker 03

  Luckily, the hospital we're in, it delayed opening because of pandemic. So we were one of the first people ever.

• 1:04:36Speaker 01

  Oh, nice.

• 1:04:36Speaker 03

  Hospital was cool.

• 1:04:37Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow. Fresh seeds.

• 1:04:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, like snip a ribbon at the door.

• 1:04:42Speaker 03

  Be the first like baby.

• 1:04:43Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  I was at a hospital in New York also during the pandemic, right before the pandemic hit.

• 1:04:49Speaker 03

  That's terrifying.

• 1:04:49Speaker 01

  Like week or two before.

• 1:04:50Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 1:04:51Speaker 01

  With my seizure. And guess what? After the seizure, Kristen and I went to Emily.

• 1:04:55Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:04:56Speaker 02

  So that's right. Cause I remember you sat at the chef's table.

• 1:04:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:04:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then everything closed down right after that.

• 1:05:01Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:05:02Speaker 02

  It was like third week in March, I think.

• 1:05:03Dax Shepard?

  You had the first baby? She had the last burger?

• 1:05:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:06Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:05:07Speaker 03

  I had my birthday party and then like two days later, March 12th, baby was like, that's it. Everything's closed.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:12Dax Shepard?

  So how do you end up in Austin?

• 1:05:14Speaker 03

  We were living in Clinton Hill, like right down from the restaurant. And then I was just like, I was born in New York and then I lived in Connecticut for a few years. And then the next 20 years, I'm in New York again. So I never lived anywhere other than the city. So I want to leave. I think a lot of people during pandemic were just like, I'm leaving.

• 1:05:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, change it up.

• 1:05:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, like a lot of the New Yorkers went to Miami and Californians went to Austin. Didn't want to go to Miami. I was like, all right, let's go to Austin then. Girl of Californians go. It's a city that I've always loved.

• 1:05:39Dax Shepard?

  Great food, outrageously good food.

• 1:05:41Speaker 03

  Laid back. It's easy to get around. Everything's no more than 20 minutes away from everything else. So it's like a big town. That's just really friendly and cool.

• 1:05:48Speaker 01

  It is. Great city.

• 1:05:50Dax Shepard?

  How quickly do you decide? Let's open a restaurant here.

• 1:05:54Speaker 03

  Simone got pregnant again. We had our daughter.

• 1:05:56Dax Shepard?

  You say it like you don't know how this happens.

• 1:05:58Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 1:05:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. Both times, like she got pregnant.

• 1:06:01Speaker 02

  Somehow she got pregnant.

• 1:06:02Speaker 03

  I missed her.

• 1:06:04Speaker 03

  So then, we were really looking for spaces for maybe a year. And then we stumbled upon this one that had a smoker in it. So we did some Chinese food with some smoke stuff. And then we opened a barbecue place. We met our pit master. His name is Jonathan Lagos from Terry Black's.

• 1:06:16Dax Shepard?

  Oh, OK.

• 1:06:17Speaker 03

  So he was like one of the pit guys from there. He's like our Austin Sammy.

• 1:06:20Speaker 02

  Oh, OK.

• 1:06:21Speaker 03

  He's like this big gentle man.

• 1:06:22Dax Shepard?

  Do you ever go to Loro?

• 1:06:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, I love Loro.

• 1:06:24Dax Shepard?

  I love Loro. So I'm wondering, how are you and your Chinese wife fusing your backgrounds into one restaurant? Is it a hybrid?

• 1:06:31Speaker 03

  We closed it, but the Chinese restaurant was sort of like a hybrid. I like cooking more Southeast Asian food, like Singaporean stuff. And she likes cooking more like Chinese and like French style. So we kind of just had some hybrid dishes there.

• 1:06:42Dax Shepard?

  But you were smoking meat, too, so it's got an Austin flair.

• 1:06:45Speaker 03

  Smoking meat. And then we had a little truck in the patio. So you could get your barbecue there if you want, or come in for some Chinese food. And then the sides for all the barbecue, we'd make homemade Chinese noodles with a queso on it.

• 1:06:55Speaker 02

  Oh, fun.

• 1:06:56Speaker 03

  Instead of coming with that gross white bread. Like all barbecue does, we had like flicky rotis.

• 1:07:00Speaker 02

  Oh, yum.

• 1:07:01Dax Shepard?

  Is there some part of you still want to create another thing?

• 1:07:03Speaker 03

  I think going back to Emmy Square should be fun now because I can focus on that and just reinvent the menu again. Our partner, Howard, just like, if you were to rewrite this menu for 2026, not for 2016, what's the dishes?

• 1:07:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:15Speaker 03

  And obviously being a different chef now and more mature, it's just like lighter vegetable. When I left, everything just turned to like carbs in the appetizers. That's just too heavy.

• 1:07:38Speaker 02

  It's the right time for him to be back there, it feels like. In the arc of this whole story, he's landed back there at the time and place it needs him. And he's ready to help it come into the next wave of being.

• 1:07:49Speaker 03

  I'm excited to open a chocolate store with Simone eventually, but that'd be more her project.

• 1:07:54Dax Shepard?

  Who's on the food truck? Are you on the food truck ever?

• 1:07:57Speaker 03

  Not usually, like I'll go and visit every week or something.

• 1:07:59Dax Shepard?

  You designed that menu and taught them how to make everything?

• 1:08:02Speaker 03

  No, no, no, I mean, a pit guy taught. He's the man. Jonathan's the barbecue savant. Simone and I just kind of came with the sides, basically. And then they started doing a burger. Oh, uh-oh. There's a really good burger place in Atlanta called NFA. This guy's name is Billy Kramer. Do you know NFA Burger?

• 1:08:16Dax Shepard?

  She's from Atlanta.

• 1:08:17Speaker 03

  I'm from Atlanta. It's in Dunwoody. Oh, my God, I'm gonna go. It started in a gas station. Oh. So Billy and I became friends and then we did a pop-up in Austin with him. He was training Jonathan and our other pit guy Trevor how to make a burger, right? And then George Moats comes from Hamburger America and he starts training them how to do a good burger, right? And then our friend Cole from Dream Burger in Nashville comes. And then he starts teaching them how to make a burger. So the two of them, they have like these three master burger people.

• 1:08:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:44Speaker 03

  Right? And they're like, let's make our own based on what we learned. Yes. And it's, it's pretty great. Oh. I don't make smash burgers. They wanted to smash burger. They put their onions on the smoker.

• 1:08:53Dax Shepard?

  Ooh.

• 1:08:53Speaker 03

  And like they made their own special sauce that's like smoky, oniony. You're gonna have to get that.

• 1:08:59Dax Shepard?

  I gotta get out there. I have a rental car, I could do it.

• 1:09:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I have no notes for them. I was like, you guys do your burger the way you want them. Yeah.

• 1:09:06Dax Shepard?

  My last question is, are you able to have some pride in what a successful thing it was even though it ended?

• 1:09:14Speaker 02

  I mean, we're sitting here together on this couch with you.

• 1:09:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's impressive.

• 1:09:18Speaker 02

  There was a very long time I didn't think we would ever be here in relationship. And now it just feels like we're family members who had a falling out and have come back together. And it feels really beautiful to co-own and operate our baby together.

• 1:09:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:34Speaker 02

  Every breath gets us to where we are. And so everything that we've done together has informed how we've grown. And the amount of learning and resilience skills I've built through the process of navigating our divorce has allowed me to be the person I've become and I'm forever grateful to that. And just grateful for the love that we had and the way that we had it.

• 1:09:55Dax Shepard?

  Burdened that restaurant.

• 1:09:56Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:09:57Dax Shepard?

  Still stands. I would imagine it's kind of similar to like when divorced parents are at graduation for their kid.

• 1:10:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:03Dax Shepard?

  And they look at each other and they're like, ah, fuck, look what we did.

• 1:10:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, that feels very on point.

• 1:10:08Dax Shepard?

  Well, you guys, this was lovely. It's so fun to meet the people who we've never talked about a food item in our lives. Like our obsession with that fucking burger. I mean, the whole damn spread is beautiful. The fucking, sometimes it's broccoli, sometimes it's cauliflower.

• 1:10:22Speaker 01

  Brussels sprout. So good.

• 1:10:25Dax Shepard?

  Good way to trick me into having some veggies.

• 1:10:27Speaker 01

  So good. You guys really made something very special.

• 1:10:30Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:10:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, incredibly special. That will probably outlive all of us, so it's, yeah.

• 1:10:36Speaker 02

  And wait, we wanted to do something special for Armcherry's. If you were game, we thought if anyone gets this far in the episode, we could have like a code word that for the rest of the month after this episode comes out, they get a free dessert if they say the code word at Emily Original.

• 1:10:50Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:10:51Dax Shepard?

  We know what the code word would be.

• 1:10:53Speaker 03

  We do too.

• 1:10:54Speaker 02

  Let's see. What's the code word?

• 1:10:56Speaker 01

  Yes!

• 1:10:57Speaker 02

  We got it.

• 1:10:58Dax Shepard?

  It was, look, it was gonna be that or reverse back, but dolphin asparagus is better.

• 1:11:02Speaker 01

  I thought dolphin asparagus.

• 1:11:03Dax Shepard?

  Dolphin asparagus.

• 1:11:05Speaker 02

  Credit, that was wrong.

• 1:11:07Speaker 01

  Oh, got it. Okay.

• 1:11:09Dax Shepard?

  Both are incredibly perverse, so either would or, but dolphin asparagus, I love it. So if you're an Armcherry and you're anywhere near an Emily.

• 1:11:17Speaker 01

  Maybe they can order it. I'll have the dolphin asparagus.

• 1:11:20Speaker 02

  Oh, there we go. Okay.

• 1:11:22Dax Shepard?

  And it means the burger and a.

• 1:11:23Speaker 03

  And a dessert.

• 1:11:24Speaker 02

  So we'll say for the two weeks after this episode airs.

• 1:11:28Dax Shepard?

  That's more reasonable. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  If they say that at Emily Original.

• 1:11:31Speaker 01

  Emily Original.

• 1:11:32Speaker 02

  They'll get dessert on the house.

• 1:11:33Dax Shepard?

  Okay, Clinton Hill, go to Emily Original, order the dolphin asparagus, and you're gonna get a dessert on the house.

• 1:11:38Speaker 01

  I love this.

• 1:11:39Dax Shepard?

  I love this.

• 1:11:40Speaker 02

  And if you take a picture under Monica, you get extra credit.

• 1:11:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, yeah.

• 1:11:44Speaker 02

  Queen Monica.

• 1:11:45Speaker 03

  Beautiful picture there, right in the waiting area in the front.

• 1:11:47Speaker 01

  It's so nice. A lot of people will post that, that they're there.

• 1:11:50Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wait, can I air a grievance? But I could be wrong.

• 1:11:52Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:11:52Dax Shepard?

  I believe I have to go next door and buy Diet Coke and smuggle it in. Do you guys have Diet Coke?

• 1:11:57Speaker 02

  Probably.

• 1:11:57Dax Shepard?

  You motherfuckers. What is with these restaurateurs who think they shouldn't have Diet Coke? Is it that you're too classy? What's going on?

• 1:12:04Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 1:12:04Dax Shepard?

  Why wouldn't you?

• 1:12:05Speaker 03

  I'm just New Yorkers.

• 1:12:06Dax Shepard?

  Why wouldn't you have Diet Coke?

• 1:12:08Speaker 01

  I don't think New York is a big Diet Coke.

• 1:12:11Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I think it is. Finance?

• 1:12:13Speaker 03

  Squirts have Diet Coke. Our partner Howard drinks Diet Coke.

• 1:12:15Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:12:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, okay, Howard knows what's up.

• 1:12:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, he knows what's up.

• 1:12:18Dax Shepard?

  But let's get Diet Coke at Emily's so I don't have to go next door and smuggle it in.

• 1:12:24Dax Shepard?

  You got all those often asparagus coats you get your diet coke.

• 1:12:26Speaker 01

  That's right, that's right.

• 1:12:27Dax Shepard?

  That'll be reversed back.

• 1:12:28Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:12:29Dax Shepard?

  What do you want to have?

• 1:12:29Speaker 01

  Geez, we have so many coats.

• 1:12:31Dax Shepard?

  Just asking like, hold on a second. It's like learning the specials that night.

• 1:12:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:12:35Dax Shepard?

  It's like, what is it? Oh, it's Diet Coke. Diet Coke is a special tonight. We're serving Diet Coke tonight.

• 1:12:41Speaker 01

  Oh, this was lovely.

• 1:12:42Dax Shepard?

  Well, Emily and Matthew, this was wonderful. Thank you so much for coming in.

• 1:12:45Speaker 01

  Thank you so much for coming. You're so great.

• 1:12:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's so fun. Everyone, check out my Wise Little Ghost. Of course, you could still get Emily the cookbook. It's still a great cookbook, whether or not it was fraudulent in its messaging at the time.

• 1:12:57Speaker 01

  The recipes are still great.

• 1:12:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, the recipes didn't know. So, thanks for coming, you guys. This is great. Yeah, thanks for having me.

• 1:13:03Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:13:03Dax Shepard?

  Yep.

• 1:13:06Dax Shepard?

  We hope you enjoyed this episode. Unfortunately, they made some mistakes.

• 1:13:14Dax Shepard?

  I broke my phone yesterday. I cracked the front.

• 1:13:18Speaker 01

  Okay, so you're in a little bit grumpy?

• 1:13:20Dax Shepard?

  No, I'm not grumpy at all.

• 1:13:21Speaker 01

  Oh, all right.

• 1:13:22Dax Shepard?

  I cracked the screen and it's crazy how much it hurts my feelings when that happens.

• 1:13:28Speaker 01

  Ah, how did it happen?

• 1:13:29Dax Shepard?

  I was doing what I do often, which is try to save trips.

• 1:13:34Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:13:35Dax Shepard?

  By carrying way too many things. I mean, I'm never gonna learn this lesson. I'm 51.

• 1:13:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:40Dax Shepard?

  And I will continue to try to reduce everything to one trip everywhere. So, I was doing one of those. I was carrying a lot of different things from the sauna to somewhere else. And, uh, yeah, and it fell out of my hand. It didn't seem like a biggie. And then I looked and sure enough, crack, crack city.

• 1:13:59Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 1:14:00Dax Shepard?

  And I just go like, oh, it hurts more than it should.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  I mean...

• 1:14:05Dax Shepard?

  I think because it's your phone and you immediately go, oh, I'm gonna be without it or it's gonna be... I don't know. There's something interesting about it where, yeah, I'm like, oh, I'm sad.

• 1:14:15Speaker 01

  I'm sorry.

• 1:14:17Dax Shepard?

  I mean, that was yesterday.

• 1:14:18Speaker 01

  Oh, okay. But do you get sad every time you see it?

• 1:14:21Dax Shepard?

  Well, I have an appointment at 12:45 to get it fixed.

• 1:14:23Speaker 01

  Oh, great.

• 1:14:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I'm on it. I'm on it.

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  Nice. Are you going to the Americana?

• 1:14:28Dax Shepard?

  I am.

• 1:14:29Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 1:14:30Dax Shepard?

  Yes. And then we're gonna snoop around and I'm bad at this, but I keep asking Lincoln for birthday suggestions.

• 1:14:37Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:14:38Dax Shepard?

  Again, ultimately, I do interpret this as a great thing, which is like, when I was a kid, I wanted everything. But I keep, I'm like, Friday's gonna come and, you know, I, I want to be able to give you something. She's like, "Oh yeah, I have a list, but it's, I'm, I'll give it to you later." Like, it's just never. So, I'm presuming it's gonna take a minute to fix this thing. So I plan on perusing, which I never do, but I'm gonna walk that Americana and see if something leaps out at me that Lincoln would like for her birthday.

• 1:15:09Speaker 01

  I can advise a little bit. The Americana, as much as I love it.

• 1:15:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:15Speaker 01

  Shopping-wise, it leaves a little to be desired.

• 1:15:19Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:15:19Speaker 01

  There's some like very fancy, like there's a Tiffany's there.

• 1:15:24Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay. So I could buy her like a $4,000 tennis bracelet?

• 1:15:28Speaker 01

  You could, yeah.

• 1:15:30Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. I'm not going to, but I could.

• 1:15:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, you could.

• 1:15:35Dax Shepard?

  Tiffany's pricey, right?

• 1:15:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:37Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:15:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is. Uh, but then they do have some like teen stores. I just don't think you wanna go in there. It's like teen clothes stores and like.

• 1:15:48Dax Shepard?

  I'm in there.

• 1:15:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. I don't know if it's super you don't.

• 1:15:52Dax Shepard?

  Like other 13-year-olds. Would you like this?

• 1:15:54Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:15:56Dax Shepard?

  And I really am just trying to find something for my daughter.

• 1:15:58Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:15:58Dax Shepard?

  But then I get tackled by a hus- uh, father from behind.

• 1:16:01Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:16:02Dax Shepard?

  Would you feel cute in this? Oh.

• 1:16:05Speaker 01

  Do you think this is flattering on a body like yours?

• 1:16:10Dax Shepard?

  Well, you could really be totally above board in the questions and it could sound horrendous.

• 1:16:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, you really could. Um, also, like, the lighting in those stores really hurts my eyes.

• 1:16:22Dax Shepard?

  It hurts your eyes?

• 1:16:23Speaker 01

  And there's something, I'm like, kids are, you know, it's when you really feel very old, where you're just like, "Oh no, this is what they're wearing now?"

• 1:16:31Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so is it too bright is your issue?

• 1:16:34Speaker 01

  That's part of it.

• 1:16:34Dax Shepard?

  Okay, and then the clothes, you're like, I don't relate.

• 1:16:37Speaker 01

  I'm just like scared of the clothes. I'm scared of the youth.

• 1:16:41Dax Shepard?

  I would never fuck with clothes. That's a stupid.

• 1:16:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:16:44Dax Shepard?

  And also, I remember sweet grandparents would get me clothes. And then everyone's in a bad position because you feel terrible and you gotta act like you love the sweater granddad picked out for you.

• 1:16:58Speaker 01

  Aww.

• 1:16:59Dax Shepard?

  And I'm, that's, that's what would be the case. I'd be like, oh, I thought this was rad. Although she is wearing all my old punk rock t-shirts.

• 1:17:06Speaker 01

  You could get a vintage shirt. They won't be at the Americana.

• 1:17:10Dax Shepard?

  No, sir. There's nothing old there. It's all new.

• 1:17:13Speaker 01

  But there are vintage stores other places in the city.

• 1:17:16Dax Shepard?

  I told you about, this is a longstanding grievance. I told you about the, one time I was at the Americana. Also for the, um, listener, I'm in a mall maybe once every two or three years.

• 1:17:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:28Dax Shepard?

  I am never there, right? So I went to see a film at that AMC at the Americana.

• 1:17:34Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:17:35Dax Shepard?

  And I walked by the Golden Goose store or whatever it is, the, the shoes.

• 1:17:39Speaker 01

  Sure, yeah, yeah.

• 1:17:40Dax Shepard?

  CGG. And a pair of shoes leapt out from the window at me.

• 1:17:44Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:17:44Dax Shepard?

  And I walked in. Do you have that in eleven and a half? Oh yeah, we do. Great, I'll take them.

• 1:17:49Speaker 01

  Oh, you didn't try them on.

• 1:17:50Dax Shepard?

  Great, um, let me sign you up for a, um, an account.

• 1:17:54Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:17:55Dax Shepard?

  With your email and address. And I said, oh, I, I don't, or a membership or something. And I said, oh, I don't want a membership. I just want to pay. And she goes, well, you have to, you have to sign up for a membership. And I said, you, you won't, you won't sell this to me unless I enroll in some program? And she said, yeah, like, it won't even let me. And I'm like, okay, thank you. And then I left.

• 1:18:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:18:19Dax Shepard?

  And I was like, is that what we have come to?

• 1:18:21Speaker 01

  A membership? I've never had to do that.

• 1:18:22Dax Shepard?

  We're on grievances. I got another one. And maybe I've already aired it on here before. Stop asking me to rate everything. I'm so fucking sick of, I go to use something, I want to use my food delivery app, and first I gotta be asked to rate it. And then I gotta go to YouTube. You don't need me to rate YouTube and all these things. Enough, you don't mind. I can see on your face, you're not bothered.

• 1:18:46Speaker 01

  That one doesn't get me.

• 1:18:46Dax Shepard?

  It's a pop-up screen you gotta go through.

• 1:18:48Speaker 01

  I don't, on YouTube, I just X out of that. But on DoorDash and stuff, I click it out. Cause I, you know, I want the person to get their five stars.

• 1:18:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but you, and also you would think if you rated it once, that would be it for the rest of your life. Like, what are you gonna rate it every week? Is it a daily rating? But it just keeps popping up. Cause also if you go, oh, fuck it, okay, I'll give you five stars. And then it says, and then a new screen comes up, would you like to write a review?

• 1:19:12Speaker 01

  Right, and you say no.

• 1:19:13Dax Shepard?

  I know, but I...

• 1:19:14Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:19:15Dax Shepard?

  Why does everyone need to get reviewed all the time? Just let me use the service that I'm paying for. And, and don't ask me to review. Or you go to the doctor, there's three email follow-ups. How was your visit? Please rate your visit.

• 1:19:30Speaker 01

  I know, I just ignore it.

• 1:19:31Dax Shepard?

  I know, but it's a lot of traffic that doesn't need to be there. No one needs to rate.

• 1:19:37Speaker 01

  Okay, well, they wanna know if they did a good job.

• 1:19:39Dax Shepard?

  Rob, do you like rating stuff?

• 1:19:41Speaker 06

  No, I hate it.

• 1:19:42Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:19:43Speaker 01

  No one likes it.

• 1:19:44Dax Shepard?

  Do the screens bother you?

• 1:19:46Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, I'm always seeing skip and I get pissed, cause...

• 1:19:49Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great, I'm not crazy. And then also the gas station, here's another one. You go to the pump and it's like, do you wanna sign up for a membership? No. Do you want a car wash? No. Do you want a receipt? No. And at some point, you just wanna go, I want gas. That's why I came here.

• 1:20:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:02Dax Shepard?

  For gasoline.

• 1:20:04Speaker 01

  It's frustrating.

• 1:20:05Dax Shepard?

  Ha, ha, ha.

• 1:20:07Speaker 01

  It is indeed frustrating. Um, I don't have any grievances. Oh, oh, you probably have grievances about that. Let's see, let me get out of here. Let me do, let's do a do not disturb.

• 1:20:21Dax Shepard?

  Do not D.

• 1:20:22Speaker 01

  D, D and D.

• 1:20:24Dax Shepard?

  Please rate the rejection of this call. Was that, was it easy to use?

• 1:20:27Speaker 01

  That was fast. I thought it was easy.

• 1:20:29Dax Shepard?

  Five stars to reject that call?

• 1:20:31Speaker 01

  Totally, yeah.

• 1:20:32Dax Shepard?

  Well, let's, let me, let me add some positives.

• 1:20:35Speaker 01

  Let's, yeah.

• 1:20:35Dax Shepard?

  They have made it easy, cause I get so many junk text messages. I get like, you would think I have a credit score of zero. I get about 15 texts from different numbers.

• 1:20:47Speaker 01

  This is a positive?

• 1:20:47Dax Shepard?

  Every day, yeah. Um, from... Debt collectors, they're not real debt collectors.

• 1:20:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:53Dax Shepard?

  They're trying to trick you into something.

• 1:20:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, scams.

• 1:20:55Dax Shepard?

  And what I like now is you can just slide to arrays and it says, delete and report junk, one button.

• 1:21:04Speaker 01

  Love that.

• 1:21:05Dax Shepard?

  Boom, boom, boom. I love that.

• 1:21:07Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:21:07Dax Shepard?

  Cause I want the junk reported. I want to save other people from it.

• 1:21:11Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

• 1:21:12Dax Shepard?

  And so that feature, I love.

• 1:21:14Speaker 01

  Great.

• 1:21:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Congratulations to Apple.

• 1:21:16Speaker 01

  That's a positive of technology.

• 1:21:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:21:18Speaker 01

  Um, I worked out again.

• 1:21:20Dax Shepard?

  How'd it go?

• 1:21:21Speaker 01

  I think well.

• 1:21:22Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:21:23Speaker 01

  So I'm just getting huge.

• 1:21:25Dax Shepard?

  I'm just getting jacked over here.

• 1:21:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm like, I'm really swole and I've gained.

• 1:21:30Dax Shepard?

  Did you spend a lot of time in front of the mirror?

• 1:21:31Speaker 01

  I look.

• 1:21:32Dax Shepard?

  Uh, for how long?

• 1:21:33Speaker 01

  Not very long, but I look just to see like, how are my gains?

• 1:21:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, your G A I N.

• 1:21:38Speaker 01

  And they're big. I showed you yesterday that you can't see I'm wearing kind of a long sleeve.

• 1:21:42Dax Shepard?

  I'm surprised you're not wearing a tank top to show off the gunnies, the gunners.

• 1:21:47Speaker 01

  No, like, I am sore also, obviously. Um, but...

• 1:21:51Dax Shepard?

  What part are you sore in?

• 1:21:52Speaker 01

  I'm sore here.

• 1:21:53Dax Shepard?

  Your tricep?

• 1:21:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, cause I did that yesterday.

• 1:21:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, good. It's a good feeling, isn't it?

• 1:21:58Speaker 01

  It is, it is. Um, it is, yes.

• 1:22:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:02Speaker 01

  I do, I will say, I do prefer the feeling after cardio than I do the feeling after weight training, but that's why I'll just have to do both.

• 1:22:14Dax Shepard?

  They're time horizons, really.

• 1:22:17Speaker 01

  Uh-huh.

• 1:22:17Dax Shepard?

  So after cardio, you do get an endorphin blast, for sure. But the muscle thing is a less spiked, much more protracted, like that feeling of tightness all day is this, this gentle mental reminder like, oh yeah, I pushed myself. I pushed myself. It's such a esteem building, just all day gentle reminder like, oh yeah, I pushed myself.

• 1:22:42Speaker 01

  Huh, yeah.

• 1:22:43Dax Shepard?

  So it's not like the endorphin spike, but it is, it is a real elevated self-esteem for a lot of people.

• 1:22:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:22:51Dax Shepard?

  For Camille, I know that's what he experiences.

• 1:22:53Speaker 01

  Likes about it.

• 1:22:54Dax Shepard?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:22:55Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, so...

• 1:22:57Dax Shepard?

  I'm in a tricky situ- this is gonna get really esoteric. So my leathers that I'll be riding in on Monday.

• 1:23:05Speaker 01

  That's the outfit you wear to-

• 1:23:06Dax Shepard?

  It's a full leather body suit. It was made for me. It's a gorgeous suit. You've seen it. It's got arm cherries. It's got cherries on the arms. It's got a little homage to Nikki Hayden, my friend who used to race. Uh, there's a lot of great- they're awesome. I would never want other pair of leathers. Problem is, they were made for me when I was 185.

• 1:23:25Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 1:23:25Dax Shepard?

  And not only was I 185, I just had a completely different body composition.

• 1:23:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:29Dax Shepard?

  So, we have had the suit let out like three times. It has been sent- I don't know if it gets sent to Italy or what, but Alpine Stars has- who made the suit, they have adjusted it three times. And the lower half, that was the killer, is my thighs got way big. My thighs got like 30% bigger and I could barely get them in the suit.

• 1:23:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:49Dax Shepard?

  So those were fixed.

• 1:23:51Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:23:51Dax Shepard?

  But now it's the fucking, my biceps in my arms, it's so tight, cause I just rode three weeks ago. And I'm like, it's so tight, I can barely feel my hands.

• 1:24:02Speaker 01

  That's not good. You need to have mobility.

• 1:24:05Dax Shepard?

  So, okay, now here's my Sophie's Choice.

• 1:24:08Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:24:09Dax Shepard?

  This is the- cannot believe, I'm gonna admit this out loud on the show. So I will likely wave the checkered flag at the race. I did last year.

• 1:24:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:24:18Dax Shepard?

  And I hadn't planned it last year. I just, they asked me to wave the checkered flag and I did.

• 1:24:24Speaker 01

  Which starts the show.

• 1:24:26Dax Shepard?

  No, it's the end of the race, the winner.

• 1:24:28Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm sorry. Who would stand?

• 1:24:29Dax Shepard?

  I'm like, I'm in the tower, as they come across the finish line, I'm waving the checkered flag.

• 1:24:33Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 1:24:35Dax Shepard?

  And as-

• 1:24:35Speaker 01

  Wait, this is for the race?

• 1:24:37Dax Shepard?

  MotoGP.

• 1:24:38Speaker 01

  Not the thing you're riding in?

• 1:24:40Dax Shepard?

  Nope.

• 1:24:41Speaker 01

  Got it. Okay.

• 1:24:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. There's a MotoGP, the Formula One of motorcycles is on Saturday and Sunday.

• 1:24:46Speaker 01

  Yes, okay.

• 1:24:47Dax Shepard?

  Sprint on Saturday.

• 1:24:48Speaker 01

  And that's like, a legit, that's on TV, that's like a thing, and you're gonna, you're gonna wave.

• 1:24:53Dax Shepard?

  And last year, I was on TV.

• 1:24:54Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 1:24:55Dax Shepard?

  Waving the flag.

• 1:24:56Speaker 01

  Okay, I see.

• 1:24:57Dax Shepard?

  And I'm gonna tell you egomaniacally, and with all vanity, I noticed when I was waving the flag, "Oh, your bicep looks awesome."

• 1:25:05Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. Okay.

• 1:25:06Dax Shepard?

  It really like you couldn't miss it.

• 1:25:08Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:25:09Dax Shepard?

  And I was like, oh, this is great. I love it. People commented.

• 1:25:13Speaker 01

  I'm sure they did.

• 1:25:14Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so now I'm kind of addicted to that reaction.

• 1:25:16Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 1:25:18Dax Shepard?

  So I don't want to do arms for like a week because I'm gonna ride, but I also want to do arms like the day before I have to wave the flags. My biceps look great.

• 1:25:27Speaker 01

  Uh uh.

• 1:25:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, which one?

• 1:25:29Speaker 01

  No, you need to be able to ride your motorcycle.

• 1:25:32Dax Shepard?

  I think I'm gonna pick the flag waving.

• 1:25:34Speaker 01

  Dax, this isn't funny, actually.

• 1:25:36Dax Shepard?

  It is.

• 1:25:36Speaker 01

  No, because you could fall.

• 1:25:38Dax Shepard?

  No, no, it doesn't hamper my ability to ride the motorcycle.

• 1:25:41Speaker 01

  How do you, of course it does. If you're like, I can't even like, you can't even move.

• 1:25:45Dax Shepard?

  It's just uncomfortable.

• 1:25:46Speaker 06

  I think your arms are huge. A week off is not gonna change.

• 1:25:49Speaker 01

  Exactly. Thank you, Rob. Like, it's not gonna make a difference.

• 1:25:52Dax Shepard?

  Rob, you need to look up the video of me waving the flag. You might change your mind.

• 1:25:55Speaker 01

  No, he won't. He cares about you not breaking your neck.

• 1:25:59Speaker 06

  How long ago was that too? If your arms are too big for the suit, that means they're still bigger than then.

• 1:26:04Dax Shepard?

  Well, no, they weren't too big for my suit last year too.

• 1:26:06Speaker 06

  Yeah, but if they're bigger now too.

• 1:26:09Speaker 01

  Dax.

• 1:26:09Dax Shepard?

  Why is it sickening?

• 1:26:10Speaker 01

  That you're gonna prioritize that over your like potential.

• 1:26:13Dax Shepard?

  My comfort? You're making it about safety. There's no sa- there is no safety issue.

• 1:26:18Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:26:18Dax Shepard?

  I can ride the motorcycle whether they're tight or not.

• 1:26:20Speaker 01

  How do you know?

• 1:26:20Dax Shepard?

  It's a comfort issue. It's very uncomfortable.

• 1:26:23Speaker 01

  Don't you need to be comfortable if you're gonna be nimble on the bike?

• 1:26:26Dax Shepard?

  No, you don't have to be comfortable. You don't. It's just like you could race a car in an uncomfortable seat or a comfortable seat.

• 1:26:32Speaker 01

  If you're a gymnast and you're in a, um, you're in like.

• 1:26:36Dax Shepard?

  High heels?

• 1:26:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, yes.

• 1:26:39Dax Shepard?

  They would impede your performance a lot. This won't impede my performance. It's just uncomfortable. And then I'll add to it. It, it, it determines whether or not I come in and out of the suit. So in between sessions, it's also Texas, so it's gonna be like 95 degrees, right? It'll be hot. I'll be sweating bullets. And when you come off the track in my 30 minutes of downtime, I kinda wanna take my arms out of the suit. Now we get into my shoulder issues. This is another thing. With all the surgeries, getting in and out of this, it's, the whole thing's a little rough. So then I'll just end up kinda staying in the suit in between.

• 1:27:12Speaker 01

  And dehydrating.

• 1:27:13Dax Shepard?

  No, I drink a ton of water. There's no hydration issues. You know I drink a ton of water.

• 1:27:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you're not drinking electrolytes like I tell you.

• 1:27:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I drink, I drink Gatorade when I'm at the track. Yeah.

• 1:27:22Speaker 01

  All right. I just. And you're gonna get a UTI cuz you can't take it off cuz you can't pee.

• 1:27:28Dax Shepard?

  No, no, I can unzip it down to my weenus, which I do. But I do have to pull the whole package up over the leathers and then the zippers down there.

• 1:27:38Speaker 01

  And if it's tight, it might cut off your entire package.

• 1:27:42Dax Shepard?

  Again, that hasn't, that's not affected by the size of my arms. I wish it was.

• 1:27:48Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Well, oh, my God. I just, I just, it is body dysmorphia that you can't see that, like, your arms are, as Rob just said, huge.

• 1:28:01Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:28:02Speaker 01

  And with or without, with or without you doing more.

• 1:28:07Dax Shepard?

  Well, that's just maintenance. I'm not like, I'm trying to do new personal.

• 1:28:11Speaker 01

  You think in one week, your arm's gonna look like mine or something?

• 1:28:15Dax Shepard?

  No, I don't.

• 1:28:16Speaker 01

  By the way, mine are pretty swole, so you would be excited.

• 1:28:18Dax Shepard?

  They do look different when I've pumped in, when I haven't. I mean, that's just, that's a fact.

• 1:28:22Speaker 01

  But they look huge if you haven't. That's the whole thing. So you don't have to.

• 1:28:28Dax Shepard?

  I know. So you probably have like a shirt that looks great, and then you might have a blazer you like to put on over. And I could be telling you, the shirt alone looks great. And you're like, yeah, it does. It looks great. I prefer it. My thing is, I wanna look great with the blazer and the shirt.

• 1:28:43Speaker 01

  I know, but if the blazer was a detriment.

• 1:28:47Dax Shepard?

  Oh, please pursue this line of thinking because you and I both know, you operate in grave discomfort to go on the carpet with the super high heels and the dress that's too tight. And you've told me I can't breathe.

• 1:28:59Speaker 01

  I fucking hate it.

• 1:29:00Dax Shepard?

  Yes. So you do it.

• 1:29:02Speaker 01

  For the picture.

• 1:29:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:04Speaker 01

  Not for safe, not for then me to go do something that's like, safety, it's gonna impact my safety.

• 1:29:11Dax Shepard?

  These are one for one.

• 1:29:12Speaker 01

  No, they're really not. They're really not because you're riding the motorcycle. I feel you need to be, you need to be capable of like, dah, like doing that if you're about to fly off or something.

• 1:29:23Dax Shepard?

  You're not, you're not listening to me. There's, this doesn't at all augment my safety.

• 1:29:29Speaker 01

  How could it not?

• 1:29:30Dax Shepard?

  Because, because I'm uncomfortable doesn't mean I can't operate it exactly the same.

• 1:29:35Speaker 01

  Can you lift your arms all the way up in it? You can.

• 1:29:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's just like when you're wearing an extremely tight dress. You're like, oh, this is uncomfortable.

• 1:29:42Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:29:42Dax Shepard?

  So you prioritize your look over discomfort often.

• 1:29:48Speaker 01

  Well, okay, I'm gonna say one thing.

• 1:29:50Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:29:50Speaker 01

  I actually am somewhere in the middle. I don't wear like a super high. Sometimes I look around and I'm like, how are they doing that? I can't, I will look like an idiot. Like I will, won't be able to really do it. So I, I do prioritize some level of comfort and style.

• 1:30:12Dax Shepard?

  But I've been with you and you're like, oh, I can't breathe in this or my feet hurt.

• 1:30:16Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, my feet always hurt, but even if.

• 1:30:18Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so, so we, we relate. We, we, we know what it's like to be willing to experience discomfort so that we look a certain way.

• 1:30:26Speaker 01

  Sure. I'll give you that. I'm more, I'm not, I don't care about the day of the.

• 1:30:31Dax Shepard?

  You want it to be a safety issue, but it's not. There's no safety issue. It's a discomfort one. And I'm acknowledging even that's preposterous. I am acknowledging that I want my arms to look a certain way on TV. And I'm willing to be uncomfortable for a whole day at the track.

• 1:30:48Speaker 01

  Can I tell you something that's different?

• 1:30:50Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:30:50Speaker 01

  Um, me in a flat shoe on the red carpet legitimately looks, I can't, I feel bad because somebody's wearing a flat shoe on the red carpet and they probably look great in it.

• 1:31:01Dax Shepard?

  And by the way, it's just a subjective, Monica. You're saying, you're saying to me, the, the thing I noticed the difference in is not real. And, and you're saying the thing you noticed the difference in is real. And I'm saying plenty of people would think you would look just as great not in heels on the red carpet.

• 1:31:17Speaker 01

  Do you know who's not? The fashion police.

• 1:31:19Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great.

• 1:31:19Speaker 01

  There's like a legit amount, there's like people who look at your outfit and scour it and say, that's chic, that's not, why they do this, why do they do this? And so for, you do have to look sore, you don't have to, you don't have to.

• 1:31:35Dax Shepard?

  These are the, I mean, they're identical things. We both want to look a certain way and we're both willing to be uncomfortable to look a certain way.

• 1:31:41Speaker 01

  I guess I just don't think the judgment, I mean.

• 1:31:45Dax Shepard?

  You're the only one, I'm not judging you for what's happening on the red carpet at all.

• 1:31:48Speaker 01

  Judgment, I'm saying, I'm saying the judgment from the outside world. I don't think the outside world is gonna see. You waving the flag with or without the pump.

• 1:32:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:02Speaker 01

  Think much different.

• 1:32:03Dax Shepard?

  You, I know, you think that. Just like, because you're not a dude and, and I think people wouldn't say she looks crazy without high heels on. So we both think that.

• 1:32:14Speaker 01

  But Rob's a dude. And Rob said that your arms will look huge regardless.

• 1:32:21Dax Shepard?

  They will look big. Could they look bigger? Yes. You will look very cute. Can you look cuter? Sure.

• 1:32:28Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:32:29Dax Shepard?

  I mean, these are just, they're really tit for tat.

• 1:32:31Speaker 01

  They are, and I mean, maybe, yeah, maybe I just don't understand that thing, but they are different. Like heels do something to your leg shape. Like, it's not like.

• 1:32:39Dax Shepard?

  In veins, uh, sticking out of your bicep do something to what they look like on TV.

• 1:32:44Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:32:45Dax Shepard?

  I mean, they're noticeable.

• 1:32:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:48Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:32:48Dax Shepard?

  We do the same thing.

• 1:32:49Speaker 01

  Okay. Okay. I just, I, on a, I, you're, that's fine. As long as it's not a safety thing, you do whatever you want to do.

• 1:32:57Dax Shepard?

  It's just massive discomfort, which I am willing to own. I'm happy to own that. That's preposterous.

• 1:33:05Speaker 04

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

• 1:33:17Dax Shepard?

  I admitted the other day, I thought when I was down in Florida for, um, Rat Diddy.

• 1:33:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:21Dax Shepard?

  I was like, oh, we're looking too big.

• 1:33:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:33:24Dax Shepard?

  But then I was like, but it kind of works for that character, but I don't want to look that big. So I don't think I have full dysmorphia. I think I have face dysmorphia for sure. I don't think I see what my face looks like at all.

• 1:33:35Speaker 01

  How do we know, you know?

• 1:33:38Dax Shepard?

  This is where AI could help us, I think.

• 1:33:40Speaker 01

  This is like, this is like, you know, the age old, what color are you seeing versus what color am I seeing?

• 1:33:46Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:33:47Speaker 01

  You know, it's like, there's liter, there's no way to know. And um, not to mention that we're adding in everything's subjective. Like, everything looks good, something looks good to one person.

• 1:33:59Dax Shepard?

  To you and I, yes.

• 1:34:00Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:34:00Dax Shepard?

  Someone's like, I hate muscles. Someone's like, I love muscles.

• 1:34:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is a whole.

• 1:34:04Dax Shepard?

  I love big noses, I hate big noses.

• 1:34:06Speaker 01

  Right, it's all subjective and.

• 1:34:09Dax Shepard?

  There's a couple consistent ones, thank god.

• 1:34:12Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, there, I mean, there are people that everyone can universally agree on.

• 1:34:16Dax Shepard?

  No one's like, I fucking hate perky breasts. I've never heard that in my life. I've been along around for a long time. I've heard I hate big dicks.

• 1:34:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you've also.

• 1:34:25Dax Shepard?

  I've never heard, it's like, fuck it, I hate perky breasts.

• 1:34:28Speaker 01

  But some people probably hate big breasts.

• 1:34:30Dax Shepard?

  That's why I said perky.

• 1:34:32Speaker 01

  I know, but like, it's of course a perky if they're non-existent.

• 1:34:36Dax Shepard?

  The male equivalent, I've never heard someone say like, I hate how wide his shoulders are.

• 1:34:41Speaker 01

  I could see someone saying that, depending on who the person is. I actually could see myself saying that about someone.

• 1:34:48Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really?

• 1:34:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:49Dax Shepard?

  I don't like wide shoulders?

• 1:34:50Speaker 01

  Remember I told you sometimes like?

• 1:34:52Dax Shepard?

  But that's.

• 1:34:53Speaker 01

  Sometimes it's too much.

• 1:34:55Dax Shepard?

  That's a different thing though, right? That's too muscular, not soft.

• 1:34:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:58Dax Shepard?

  But just the frame of a man having wide shoulders.

• 1:35:01Speaker 01

  Well, if they're as big as this room, that's too big.

• 1:35:04Dax Shepard?

  I'd love to meet the person who had shoulders.

• 1:35:06Speaker 01

  I don't want to meet them, I'm scared of them. Oh my god, did you hear about this basketball player who's like? Seven, eight or something? He's so tall. Everyone was talking about, this is Charlie's birthday party and.

• 1:35:20Dax Shepard?

  College player or?

• 1:35:21Speaker 01

  He, Rob, do you know about him?

• 1:35:23Speaker 06

  No.

• 1:35:24Speaker 01

  Okay, look him up, he's like, I think he might even be like sixteen or something.

• 1:35:29Speaker 06

  Ooh.

• 1:35:30Speaker 01

  Or eighteen or.

• 1:35:31Dax Shepard?

  Shaq 2.0?

• 1:35:32Speaker 06

  I was gonna say height's probably the biggest comp.

• 1:35:34Speaker 01

  He's taller than Shaq.

• 1:35:37Speaker 06

  Okay, seven foot nine Oliver Rue, does that sound right?

• 1:35:41Speaker 01

  That sounds right. Is he like a young kid?

• 1:35:44Speaker 06

  Let me, yeah, he's in college.

• 1:35:47Dax Shepard?

  The whole thing is, there's been plenty-

• 1:35:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's him. That guy is like seven feet tall. The one next to him.

• 1:35:53Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 1:35:54Speaker 01

  Yes, we were doing this, we were doing this. Okay, I don't know exact- no, I promise you, it's like shocking.

• 1:36:01Dax Shepard?

  He's 20. I wanna watch this kid play.

• 1:36:04Speaker 01

  I know. Yeah.

• 1:36:05Dax Shepard?

  Are they in the-

• 1:36:06Speaker 01

  Look at him!

• 1:36:07Dax Shepard?

  Holy shanks, for the listener, he's standing with his teammates, all of them. And presumably, they're all above six feet tall.

• 1:36:13Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:36:14Dax Shepard?

  They're all below his shoulders.

• 1:36:15Speaker 01

  These are tall men, these are basketball players. And he is-

• 1:36:20Dax Shepard?

  And he's behind them, which that also makes him smaller in the photo.

• 1:36:25Speaker 01

  And remember, like, oh my god. Like, that guy's your height.

• 1:36:31Dax Shepard?

  No, he's not.

• 1:36:31Speaker 01

  Yes, he is.

• 1:36:32Dax Shepard?

  No, that guy, that guy's 5'7".

• 1:36:33Speaker 01

  No, he's not!

• 1:36:34Dax Shepard?

  That's why they put him in the picture.

• 1:36:35Speaker 01

  This is what we've talked about, remember?

• 1:36:37Dax Shepard?

  How disproportionate.

• 1:36:39Speaker 01

  Yes, after you hit six feet-

• 1:36:41Dax Shepard?

  No, here's here with you.

• 1:36:42Speaker 01

  No, oh, she's 5'2". She's taller than me.

• 1:36:45Dax Shepard?

  Because that guy's, she's at his elbow.

• 1:36:48Speaker 01

  She's taller than me, like, listen.

• 1:36:51Dax Shepard?

  One inch taller, but this, this guy really is 5'5".

• 1:36:54Speaker 01

  One and a half inches. This guy is, is over, okay, once you hit six feet, the theory is, in this room, each inch-

• 1:37:05Dax Shepard?

  We think after 6'4".

• 1:37:06Speaker 01

  No, I think it's after six feet.

• 1:37:09Dax Shepard?

  Really?

• 1:37:10Speaker 01

  I think you look much taller than someone who's just six feet.

• 1:37:15Dax Shepard?

  Right, over someone that's six feet and 5'10". Yeah, when someone's six feet and 5'10", you can almost not tell.

• 1:37:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:37:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, okay, I'm, I'm on your, what is he, standing on the ground slamming?

• 1:37:28Speaker 01

  I wanna, I need a picture next to him so badly.

• 1:37:31Dax Shepard?

  You guys, he's holding the rim and his, honestly, his feet are a centimeter off the ground. Oh my god.

• 1:37:37Speaker 01

  I feel like I could, you know, when you're a baby and you like, put your arm around your dad's leg? And you're like, under his knee and you're just like, holding on to his leg? I feel like I'm that for him.

• 1:37:47Dax Shepard?

  You might be right at nuts level for him.

• 1:37:50Speaker 01

  I'm under his knee, I think, I'm just holding on to his little leg. And I just wanna meet him.

• 1:37:57Dax Shepard?

  Okay, can I switch the topic to TSA? Because I think this is a long, um, fun, healing journey for me. So, I have traveled once since the-

• 1:38:07Dax Shepard?

  They have stopped getting paid and I'm about to travel again.

• 1:38:10Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:38:11Dax Shepard?

  These people have not been paid for one month.

• 1:38:13Speaker 01

  Oh my god, I know.

• 1:38:13Dax Shepard?

  And they've continued to come to work. I am so in awe of them and I admire what they're doing. And I thanked all of them when I was going through the airport, but more than that, I what I was it was driving me nuts when I was leaving New Orleans. I'm like, I want to bring a five gallon bucket from Home Depot. And I want to stand up and go like, hey, I'm putting a grand in here.

• 1:38:35Speaker 01

  Oh, that's nice.

• 1:38:36Dax Shepard?

  Everyone dropped 20 as you go through, like, these people should get fucking paid something.

• 1:38:40Speaker 01

  That's nice.

• 1:38:41Dax Shepard?

  And I'm like, is that allowed? I got really hung up on like, can you do that? Is that allowed? Then I'm, then I'm past security. Now what? There's a bucket there. No one's making the announcement.

• 1:38:50Speaker 01

  People might take from it.

• 1:38:51Dax Shepard?

  Someone take it, that, that is the TSA allowed? They can't make an announcement, hey, put money in here. So I'm like, do I put a sign on there? I got really bogged down with how can I make this happen? So of course I'm about to go to the airport on Saturday. And I'm having the same thought.

• 1:39:03Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:39:04Dax Shepard?

  I'm like, I want to bring money and grease everyone I see.

• 1:39:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:07Dax Shepard?

  So guess what? Elon Musk offered to pay for all of their one months of salary out of his own pocket.

• 1:39:13Speaker 01

  The whole country?

• 1:39:15Dax Shepard?

  Yes, he offered the White House.

• 1:39:18Speaker 01

  That's.

• 1:39:18Dax Shepard?

  He's like, let me pay these people's salary while you guys fight over this.

• 1:39:22Speaker 01

  Because like, we need the airports to function.

• 1:39:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:25Dax Shepard?

  And I was like, oh, thank god. And he's someone who could really just write a check for all of them.

• 1:39:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:31Dax Shepard?

  And they turned it down.

• 1:39:34Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:39:35Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and it makes me, it drives me nuts.

• 1:39:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, is there like rules because they're government employees?

• 1:39:40Dax Shepard?

  They're, yeah, they, they somehow the explanation was like that somehow he would be liable for something. And I'm like,

• 1:39:48Speaker 01

  Why don't you use that?

• 1:39:49Dax Shepard?

  We are so bogged down in bullshit, phony red tape. It's like, these people need to get paid.

• 1:39:55Speaker 01

  Individual could maybe do it. Like, maybe like you.

• 1:39:59Dax Shepard?

  Well, he's an individual.

• 1:40:00Speaker 01

  But he was gonna do it through the government, right?

• 1:40:02Dax Shepard?

  He, he just said, I'll write a check to every TSA. Give me their names and I'll pay everyone's past four weeks that they haven't been getting paid.

• 1:40:09Speaker 06

  It says it's because of his various government contracts that he's not allowed to do it.

• 1:40:14Dax Shepard?

  Okay, again, it's all bullshit.

• 1:40:16Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:40:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, maybe then Jeff Bezos should do it. Like someone who-

• 1:40:21Dax Shepard?

  Well, he probably has government contracts. I'm sure they cloud compute for the government.

• 1:40:25Speaker 01

  Right. Uh, okay, well-

• 1:40:28Dax Shepard?

  I just hate when like, something great could happen-

• 1:40:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:31Dax Shepard?

  And everyone's gonna, because of political reasons, or they don't wanna be affiliated with Elon. It's like, who, take his fucking money and pay these people.

• 1:40:38Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, for sure.

• 1:40:39Dax Shepard?

  Um, just whatever the bullshit is. It's like, we have an opportunity to pay these people who've been working for a month for free? How are they paying their bills? A lot of them are not trying to work because they have other jobs.

• 1:40:50Speaker 01

  Exactly, I know. It's horrible. Um, maybe, I mean, you could just give some to the people you see. I mean, I know it's not the same-

• 1:40:58Dax Shepard?

  That is what I'm gonna do, but, but also, I, what I wish was somehow we could all collectively like, put a fucking bucket out. If everyone dropped 20 bucks who went through-

• 1:41:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:07Dax Shepard?

  That would, that would cover their salary for the day. Tens of thousands of people go through LAX.

• 1:41:13Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 1:41:13Dax Shepard?

  I don't know how to organize this, but I, I, it drives me nuts, and I would be happy to pay, uh, while, while they're not getting paid.

• 1:41:22Speaker 01

  Well, we could try to start something where we started on this show, we-

• 1:41:27Dax Shepard?

  Everyone bring a bucket. What if TSA was just fucking a-

• 1:41:32Speaker 01

  They're so mad at us.

• 1:41:34Dax Shepard?

  And then that became its own problem, like flights weren't getting out?

• 1:41:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:41:38Dax Shepard?

  And just the idea that like, ICE is coming in with zero training, there's no way they're gonna help speed things up. You know, they've been deployed to, to, to, um, cover the gaps. It's like, what could be worse in the speed of the airport than a trainee?

• 1:41:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:54Dax Shepard?

  Basically. This, what a bad plan.

• 1:41:57Speaker 06

  They're like putting them at the exits, because they said that's an issue.

• 1:42:00Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:42:02Speaker 06

  Which is, which is not-

• 1:42:03Speaker 01

  I don't-

• 1:42:04Dax Shepard?

  Exiting the airport's an issue?

• 1:42:06Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:42:07Speaker 01

  I think maybe if you have the means and you have some extra cash, maybe if you can just give it to your TSA.

• 1:42:13Dax Shepard?

  I wonder if they would get in trouble. Like, I wonder if they're forbidden-

• 1:42:15Speaker 01

  To-

• 1:42:16Dax Shepard?

  To take money. Because, look, it could look like, what, they just bribe him, is, is, is, he's not pre-

• 1:42:23Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:42:24Dax Shepard?

  He doesn't have a real passport, his license not good.

• 1:42:27Speaker 01

  He got something through, he's not supposed to get through.

• 1:42:29Dax Shepard?

  Exactly, they're gonna turn a blind eye. So, so, yeah, it'd be a terrible policy to allow TSA employees to accept money from people.

• 1:42:35Speaker 01

  I didn't even think about that.

• 1:42:36Dax Shepard?

  But if it's anonymous in a bucket-

• 1:42:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:40Dax Shepard?

  Then no one's getting any fair, you know, unfair, whatever. I don't know. What I know is we shan't accept this. This is nuts.

• 1:42:48Speaker 01

  Okay, I have an idea.

• 1:42:49Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:42:49Speaker 01

  Um, you could host a gala.

• 1:42:52Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:42:53Speaker 01

  Cause I'd like to come.

• 1:42:55Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:42:57Speaker 01

  And, um.

• 1:42:58Dax Shepard?

  I'll wear my suit. I'll wear my leathers.

• 1:42:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:00Dax Shepard?

  I'll do arms right before I put my leathers on.

• 1:43:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. That I feel fine about. I'm not worried about your safety there. Um, and then, uh, we can raise money at the gala for, for these workers. And like, then you can do what Elon was gonna do. Then we have all the money and like, you can just write these checks. Howard can help. You're business manager.

• 1:43:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I mean, I, I wish I had started thinking about this four weeks ago. Cause I do think by the time we pull off this gala and distribute the funds, it will be sorted out.

• 1:43:32Speaker 01

  Then we can keep the money.

• 1:43:33Dax Shepard?

  I'm gonna knock on wood before I say this, cause I know this is gonna make you nervous. But I did just think of what would be the most hilarious outcome to this whole debate about the suit. Is next fact check. I'm in a sling.

• 1:43:43Speaker 01

  Stop, I've already.

• 1:43:44Dax Shepard?

  I'm in a sling and I'm still in the suit, cause I can't.

• 1:43:48Speaker 01

  Oh my God. What do you think I'm imagining when we are talking about this? You're so arrogant to think that like, someone's tight, tight, tight, tight leotard isn't gonna affect their, um, twists. It does.

• 1:44:06Dax Shepard?

  Well, hold on a second. I ride them, I, I, I know. I've ridden with arms that are tight and arms that are not. So you're gonna have to trust me that I know.

• 1:44:13Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:44:14Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Um, and it doesn't affect it. If anything, it might give me more stability. It's just incredibly uncomfortable. That is the issue. It's very uncomfortable.

• 1:44:25Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:44:26Dax Shepard?

  And it's hard to get in and out of the suit. It would be like grab a sleeve and fucking, you know, there's like a lot of teamwork to get us in and out of these leathers.

• 1:44:34Speaker 01

  It is, it is like, it is like getting ready for a red carpet.

• 1:44:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, like cinching each other's girdles up or whatever.

• 1:44:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I was getting in and out of our suits is quite, that's the hardest part of the day. I can't relate at all to what you guys are going through with the shoes and shit. I mean, I just simply can't, I wouldn't do it. I, I, I know me, I wouldn't do it. I can barely even wear the goddamn dress shoes, but. The one thing that is borderline that I deal with as a man is like your collar on your neck of your shirt with the tie on and an Adam's apple. And I swallow and it wants to go below that line and it's too tight for my Adam's apple to go down into there.

• 1:45:08Speaker 01

  Your shirt's too tight.

• 1:45:10Dax Shepard?

  But they, again, to look good, you can't have a gappy collar. That's a huge no-no for guys. Like, that's gotta look tightened up and the tie's gotta be tied. You can't be swimming in your collar. It looks terrible.

• 1:45:21Speaker 01

  That's fair, but um.

• 1:45:22Dax Shepard?

  James Bond's never been swimming in his collar.

• 1:45:24Speaker 01

  You're right. I just, the problem is, it also, you run the risk, we talked about this. The neck on a man in a suit is tricky.

• 1:45:35Dax Shepard?

  Is everything?

• 1:45:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, because it can make someone look very stocky.

• 1:45:40Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:45:43Speaker 01

  It has, it runs a risk.

• 1:45:45Dax Shepard?

  I wanna see, um.

• 1:45:47Speaker 01

  I'm looking up a Lorne right now.

• 1:45:49Dax Shepard?

  My favorite actor to be, what did he, what happened to him? He did good?

• 1:45:52Speaker 01

  No, he looks great. And like, you're right, it's flush with his neck.

• 1:45:56Dax Shepard?

  There can't be any visible gap between the collar and your neck. It's not a good look.

• 1:45:59Speaker 01

  But it's not stocky. It's like, it's long and it's, um.

• 1:46:06Dax Shepard?

  He also has a very elegant neck. You picked a great, yeah, if you look at Statham, I was trying to think of, my favorite actor, and I can't believe I can never remember his name. It's like, it's so weird to me.

• 1:46:17Speaker 01

  Jack Reacher? Speaking of, that's really, as yesterday when I was, um, working out, I had a podcast on and they talked about that.

• 1:46:26Dax Shepard?

  It got to you.

• 1:46:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, it finally got to me after it got to me.

• 1:46:29Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. No, um, Mob Land, Tom Hardy.

• 1:46:33Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:46:33Dax Shepard?

  I struggle with his name.

• 1:46:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like a pretty standard name.

• 1:46:36Dax Shepard?

  I love him. I love him so much, I started Mob Land over again yesterday.

• 1:46:39Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:46:40Dax Shepard?

  But I can't imagine what he's dealing with, with a collar.

• 1:46:44Speaker 01

  No, but Tex, look, look.

• 1:46:45Dax Shepard?

  Okay, who do we got?

• 1:46:46Speaker 01

  This is him and his collar's not flush.

• 1:46:49Dax Shepard?

  See, great, I'm glad you just found this. He can't even have a collar tight to him.

• 1:46:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you just, um, those.

• 1:46:55Dax Shepard?

  Isn't that, I kinda knew. He doesn't have a goddamn choice. Oh, there he goes.

• 1:46:59Speaker 01

  Okay, that's flush.

• 1:47:00Dax Shepard?

  He is so fucking hot. Look at his eyes. Oh my god.

• 1:47:04Speaker 01

  Anyway, I think everyone should look exactly how they wanna look.

• 1:47:08Dax Shepard?

  Me too.

• 1:47:09Speaker 01

  And, um.

• 1:47:10Dax Shepard?

  Do the best you can with what you got. That's what I'm trying to do.

• 1:47:13Speaker 01

  You know, do whatever you want, uh, but I do think.

• 1:47:18Speaker 01

  Maybe if it's hurting your Adam's apple.

• 1:47:22Dax Shepard?

  I gotta live with it. You know, it's like an hour of my life, once a year.

• 1:47:25Speaker 01

  What about if we undo this button?

• 1:47:27Dax Shepard?

  Well, I've had to do that, similar to my leathers. Also, all my dress shirts were made at a certain era of my life, and then I stopped acting, so I wasn't accumulating any more dress shirts. So I was having to put braces, rubber band, in the fucking hole, and then around the button. So little did anyone know, there was an elastic.

• 1:47:47Speaker 01

  He sometimes keeps his, but that's not a suit.

• 1:47:49Dax Shepard?

  That's not a tie. Once you throw a tie into the mix.

• 1:47:52Speaker 01

  He's wearing a bow tie. Maybe you should take the tie out.

• 1:47:56Dax Shepard?

  I've done bow tie. I don't like bow tie. I don't understand what the fuck that thing is.

• 1:48:01Speaker 01

  Nice. I think that's cute.

• 1:48:02Dax Shepard?

  This is like, uh.

• 1:48:04Speaker 01

  It feels like something you'd like, because it's kind of like, it's a little femme, in a cute way.

• 1:48:09Dax Shepard?

  It's just like, what? It's a bow?

• 1:48:11Speaker 01

  It's so cute. Dax.

• 1:48:12Dax Shepard?

  Dax. You're trying to show me your Facebook login page?

• 1:48:16Speaker 01

  This is a Tik.

• 1:48:17Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I got it. I guess it's a Tik.

• 1:48:20Speaker 01

  No, this is somebody else. Tarot Cash. I just Googled it.

• 1:48:24Dax Shepard?

  Jacob Elordi. But you could be showing me videos of Elordi in a fucking potato sack. He's gonna look awesome, and better than I look.

• 1:48:32Speaker 01

  No, that's not true.

• 1:48:33Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yes, he look, he's significantly better looking than me.

• 1:48:39Speaker 01

  No, that's.

• 1:48:39Dax Shepard?

  And good for him.

• 1:48:40Speaker 01

  He's like, your height.

• 1:48:41Dax Shepard?

  He's taller.

• 1:48:42Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I forgot.

• 1:48:43Dax Shepard?

  Remember, he made me look a little.

• 1:48:44Speaker 01

  I forgot.

• 1:48:45Dax Shepard?

  He made me look like that fucking five foot four guy next to the basketball player.

• 1:48:48Speaker 01

  Can't wait for you to be next to him.

• 1:48:50Dax Shepard?

  Oh, we're lifts. Okay, let's do some facts.

• 1:48:53Speaker 01

  Okay. Emily Berger.

• 1:48:56Dax Shepard?

  Interesting episode.

• 1:48:58Speaker 01

  Our favorite Bergy.

• 1:49:00Dax Shepard?

  Used the sauce last night.

• 1:49:02Speaker 01

  What'd you put it on?

• 1:49:04Dax Shepard?

  Shout out to Burger Lounge. They have a paleo option. Now that I'm not fucking with cheese.

• 1:49:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:10Dax Shepard?

  It's brutal to have to remove cheese from stuff.

• 1:49:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:13Dax Shepard?

  I also went to Yucca's Taco Shack yesterday.

• 1:49:17Speaker 01

  Yum.

• 1:49:18Dax Shepard?

  Best burger.

• 1:49:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, you love it.

• 1:49:19Dax Shepard?

  You haven't tried it yet, right?

• 1:49:20Speaker 01

  Not yet. I keep meaning to.

• 1:49:22Dax Shepard?

  And I had to say, no cheese, and the cheese is such a good part of it. But you know, it was still great. That's the thing about quitting things. It hurts and then the thing is still great.

• 1:49:31Speaker 01

  Good.

• 1:49:32Dax Shepard?

  Anywho, uh, this I don't have to mess with because I guess paleo people aren't fucking with cheese.

• 1:49:36Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:49:37Dax Shepard?

  That's my assumption based on this paleo burger. It's got avocado, sprouts, tomato, lettuce.

• 1:49:43Speaker 01

  Mmm.

• 1:49:44Dax Shepard?

  And then just the burger.

• 1:49:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:46Dax Shepard?

  Boom.

• 1:49:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:47Dax Shepard?

  Ordered it, put a bevy of different classy mustards on it.

• 1:49:50Speaker 01

  Mmm.

• 1:49:51Dax Shepard?

  And then was like, oh, I have Emily Burger sauce.

• 1:49:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:55Dax Shepard?

  So I, uh, I doused it. Funny enough, too, Nate is in New York. This is a very ding ding ding. Nate is in New York with his kids for spring break. And I said, you have to eat here. Go get the burger. The kids will love the pizza.

• 1:50:07Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:50:08Dax Shepard?

  And I just sent that to him.

• 1:50:09Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 1:50:10Dax Shepard?

  An hour ago. And now here we are. And I used the sauce last night.

• 1:50:14Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:50:15Dax Shepard?

  But such an interesting interview to interview two divorced people that still have to work together.

• 1:50:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:50:21Dax Shepard?

  Unbelievably fascinating.

• 1:50:23Speaker 01

  Very fascinating. It, I mean, the interview itself is interesting, but just like the psychology of that is so, so wild.

• 1:50:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. That was a first for us.

• 1:50:34Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:50:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:35Speaker 01

  It was.

• 1:50:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:36Speaker 01

  That we know of.

• 1:50:37Dax Shepard?

  Yes, I guess we could have had a couple on that was secretly separated.

• 1:50:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. We've had Melissa and Ben on and it, and you know what?

• 1:50:46Dax Shepard?

  They're very much together.

• 1:50:47Speaker 01

  No, I know.

• 1:50:48Dax Shepard?

  That one I happen to know, but the others, I guess I wouldn't know. And who knows? Maybe I wouldn't know.

• 1:50:53Speaker 01

  You're doing a great job keeping it a big secret. What if this?

• 1:50:56Dax Shepard?

  They seem really, really in love with each other.

• 1:51:01Speaker 01

  No, they're together.

• 1:51:02Dax Shepard?

  But, um, as everyone is an individual and then you put those two things together and every person, every relationship you observe is unique unto itself.

• 1:51:10Speaker 01

  Uh-huh.

• 1:51:10Dax Shepard?

  Certainly every separation is also unique unto itself.

• 1:51:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 1:51:14Dax Shepard?

  There's not going to be any two dynamics that are exactly the same.

• 1:51:17Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:51:18Dax Shepard?

  So rare, fun experience.

• 1:51:20Speaker 01

  So fun. Yeah, this podcast I started.

• 1:51:23Dax Shepard?

  I want to interview more divorced people who work together.

• 1:51:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's do it.

• 1:51:27Dax Shepard?

  I do a dedicated show.

• 1:51:29Speaker 01

  This podcast that I've been listening to for like a day, uh, it seems that one of the people on there has a very good relationship with their ex-husband.

• 1:51:40Dax Shepard?

  Uh, yeah.

• 1:51:41Speaker 01

  Is very much in their lives.

• 1:51:44Dax Shepard?

  That was my mom and dad.

• 1:51:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:51:46Dax Shepard?

  They were best friends. They did stuff all the ti- all the time together. Um. Yeah, anytime we went to the movies, my mom and I, it was in the town that my dad lived in. We'd always invite him. He'd sometimes come for dinner. He spent the night at Christmas pretty, pretty often. Till she was remarried, but even maybe a couple of times then, I don't know. It was more a testament to like Barton, my stepdad, who had to deal with my dad being around all the time. My dad did not have a small personality.

• 1:52:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's nice.

• 1:52:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:15Speaker 01

  Okay, awesome fact. So when did this, the Emmy squared in LA live open downtown? That was April 3rd, 2025.

• 1:52:28Dax Shepard?

  Oh, so it's been there for a minute.

• 1:52:30Speaker 01

  Coming up on a year.

• 1:52:31Dax Shepard?

  So I should be able to order from that one.

• 1:52:32Speaker 01

  I hope.

• 1:52:33Dax Shepard?

  That'd be much warmer.

• 1:52:34Speaker 01

  When was our Brooklyn live show? It was on September 22nd, 2018. Early.

• 1:52:43Dax Shepard?

  Did you say September?

• 1:52:44Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:52:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, six months in.

• 1:52:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. Okay, what is right below the Michelin star? He had this for, for one of his restaurants. It's called the Bib Gourmands.

• 1:52:54Dax Shepard?

  That sounds fancier than a star.

• 1:52:55Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:52:56Dax Shepard?

  I thought it was above stars.

• 1:52:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, because this one has no association with, um, tires.

• 1:53:02Dax Shepard?

  Well, no Michelin still.

• 1:53:03Speaker 01

  I know, but like you don't hear Bib Gourmand and think tires.

• 1:53:06Dax Shepard?

  No, you don't.

• 1:53:07Speaker 01

  You hear Michelin and you think tires, which is, mm, not so fancy.

• 1:53:11Dax Shepard?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:53:12Speaker 01

  Okay, high quality food at a good value. Or as a Michelin selected restaurant formally quote the plate. These spots are recognized for using quality ingredients, proper cooking and serving a quote, simply good meal. Even if they lack the prestige of a star.

• 1:53:28Dax Shepard?

  Hmm.

• 1:53:28Speaker 01

  Okay, reminder to anyone that for two weeks, I believe it is, or a month. You'll have to go back in the episode to hear it. Um, the code word, if you go into Emily.

• 1:53:42Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:53:43Speaker 01

  To get a free dessert is dolphin asparagus.

• 1:53:45Dax Shepard?

  Oh, shit. But Nate isn't gonna be able to benefit from it. Okay.

• 1:53:51Speaker 01

  I don't know what to do about this.

• 1:53:52Dax Shepard?

  I don't know what to do either.

• 1:53:52Speaker 01

  Okay, well, he can just order and pay for his dessert. Yeah, so guys, dolphin asparagus, get your dessert. This is exciting.

• 1:53:59Dax Shepard?

  We've never had a tie in.

• 1:54:01Speaker 01

  I know, I love it. I love it. Um, okay, so you, uh, expressed a beef with them about diet coke in the restaurant.

• 1:54:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:12Speaker 01

  It made me look up, uh, soda consumption by state.

• 1:54:16Dax Shepard?

  Oh, fun.

• 1:54:17Speaker 01

  Why don't you guess what you think is the state? That has the highest percentage of people who consume soda daily. But this is, oh, what happened? Um, two thousand ten to two thousand fifteen. This is on World Pop Review, so it's like, really?

• 1:54:34Dax Shepard?

  I'm gonna say Mississippi is number one.

• 1:54:37Speaker 01

  No. This is a supri- I'll tell you, this is a surprise.

• 1:54:41Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:54:42Speaker 01

  Although, it might not be a surprise when you find out, but it's, um...

• 1:54:47Dax Shepard?

  It doesn't correlate with our obesity scales?

• 1:54:50Speaker 01

  I don't think, well, no, but also, there's some tough parts of this place. So ma- not that soda makes it a tough part, but it's Hawaii.

• 1:55:02Dax Shepard?

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:55:03Speaker 01

  It's surprising, right?

• 1:55:04Dax Shepard?

  Okay, hmm, maybe not, if I think about it deeply.

• 1:55:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is exactly, yeah.

• 1:55:10Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so Hawaii, number one.

• 1:55:11Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:55:12Dax Shepard?

  I'm still gonna stick with like Louisiana, Mississippi, uh, Alabama.

• 1:55:17Speaker 01

  You're close, you're missing one.

• 1:55:19Dax Shepard?

  Kentucky.

• 1:55:20Speaker 01

  Arkansas.

• 1:55:21Dax Shepard?

  Arkansas, they're number one. Two, okay.

• 1:55:24Speaker 01

  Okay, then we got Wyoming. I'm surprised.

• 1:55:28Dax Shepard?

  I am too. That doesn't make any sense to me.

• 1:55:30Speaker 01

  Wyoming is seventy-three point two percent.

• 1:55:33Dax Shepard?

  Of people have a soda a day?

• 1:55:34Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:55:35Dax Shepard?

  Very tiny population.

• 1:55:36Speaker 01

  Right, right, true. Okay, then we have South Dakota.

• 1:55:40Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:55:41Speaker 01

  Connecticut.

• 1:55:42Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:55:43Speaker 01

  South Carolina. New Hampshire, New Jersey, Louisiana, New Mexico, Georgia, ding ding ding.

• 1:55:54Dax Shepard?

  That should be number one.

• 1:55:55Speaker 01

  I know, it's embarrassing.

• 1:55:58Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, not, not, not enjoying your bread and butter, or whatever they say.

• 1:56:02Speaker 01

  Well, it's like one of those, like, you take it for granted. Delaware, Vermont, Florida, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Indiana, Rhode Island, New York, Maine, Maryland, Alabama, Montana, Arizona, Mississippi, Nevada, California, Illinois, North Carolina. California's above North Carolina, that's Texas, Virginia, Colorado.

• 1:56:29Dax Shepard?

  Can I just guess last?

• 1:56:31Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:56:31Dax Shepard?

  Utah.

• 1:56:32Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:56:32Dax Shepard?

  Damn it.

• 1:56:33Speaker 01

  Alaska.

• 1:56:35Dax Shepard?

  Oh, they can't get it up there.

• 1:56:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then right above that is Wisconsin.

• 1:56:41Dax Shepard?

  Forty-nine?

• 1:56:43Speaker 01

  So...

• 1:56:44Dax Shepard?

  They're two, they're drinking beer. So, let me state for the record, on my stereotyping was completely wrong. There's clearly no consistency whatsoever between north and south, and I was wrong.

• 1:56:57Speaker 01

  Also alcohol consumption, cuz a lot of people have drinks with soda.

• 1:57:02Dax Shepard?

  Sure, Jack and Coke.

• 1:57:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:05Dax Shepard?

  That's all I really know of as a popular. Rum and Coke. Yeah.

• 1:57:10Speaker 01

  Sprite and stuff.

• 1:57:13Dax Shepard?

  Sprite and something.

• 1:57:14Speaker 06

  Shirley Temples.

• 1:57:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:17Dax Shepard?

  Shirley Temples.

• 1:57:17Speaker 01

  Shirley Temples, that's true. All right, let's see, that's it.

• 1:57:22Dax Shepard?

  That's it?

• 1:57:23Speaker 01

  Yes. That's it for Emily and Matt of Emily.

• 1:57:27Dax Shepard?

  What a joy.

• 1:57:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, it was really, it was also so fun. We've just been talking about Emily Burger for so long and, and it was, it was full circle.

• 1:57:37Dax Shepard?

  All right, love you.

• 1:57:38Speaker 01

  Love you.