Armchair Anonymous: Dated a Criminal

Dax and Monica talk to Armcherries! In today's episode, Armcherries tell us about a time they dated a criminal. Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Watch new content on YouTube or listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ http://www.wondery.com/links/armchair-expert-with-dax-shepard/ now. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Anonymous. I'm Dax Shepard and I'm joined by Lily Padman. And we're here today to learn about people who have dated criminals.

• 0:11Speaker 01

  There's criminals out there, you guys.

• 0:12Dax Shepard?

  Spoiler alert. It's all women who dated male criminals.

• 0:18Speaker 01

  And I didn't say it, you did.

• 0:19Dax Shepard?

  I said it. And then I went on to say I was delighted to see that one of the arsonists here in the city was a female.

• 0:25Speaker 01

  You love seeing bad women.

• 0:26Dax Shepard?

  I do, I do, I do. We gotta take what a little we can get.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  I know.

• 0:29Dax Shepard?

  We got such a bad scorecard.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  I know.

• 0:32Dax Shepard?

  You know, anything that right sizes the...

• 0:34Speaker 01

  Look, everyone's capable of all things.

• 0:37Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Yeah, women just do different kind of weird stuff.

• 0:41Speaker 01

  Normally.

• 0:42Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, statistically speaking.

• 0:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, statistically, exactly, exactly.

• 0:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so this is, you know, this ranges from comedic to insane to absolutely terrifying.

• 0:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:52Dax Shepard?

  To bozo town, with the whole gamut. So please enjoy Dating a Criminal. We get support from Quince.

• 1:02Speaker 01

  Okay, can we talk about the fact that the holidays are already here? It's crazy. I feel like I blinked and now we're in gifting season, which I'm not really mad about because I do love giving gifts. And Quince is making it so easy to find something great for everyone on my list, including myself, because let's be honest, self-gifting is a love language.

• 1:21Dax Shepard?

  Quince is seriously the gift that keeps on giving. Their high-quality staples are made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, 14-karat gold, and Italian leather. Full-on luxury quality at prices that won't wreck your holiday budget.

• 1:37Speaker 01

  It's the dream. The cashmere sweater's starting at $60, down jackets, wool outerwear, cashmere accessories. You and everyone on your list are staying cozy and looking incredible all season long.

• 1:48Dax Shepard?

  Well, I'm gonna tell you this, it just got chilly for the first time this year in California, and I'm so excited. And I'm wearing my Quince cashmere right now.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  It's great.

• 1:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and I am going to gift this to some of my friends. I hope they're not listening.

• 2:00Speaker 01

  Quince is also more than clothing. They've got fine jewelry for your significant other, leather bags for your bestie, hotel-quality bedding to set up your guest rooms, chef-grade cookware. That's an amazing thing they offer here and it's such a good gift because people don't like buying cookware for themselves, but it's very important. And they also have five star luggage, another good gift that people don't like buying for themselves.

• 2:23Dax Shepard?

  Give the gift of quality this holiday season. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Armchair Expert. It's the best way to support the show. This episode is brought to you by McDonald's. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese with Medium Fries and a Drink is now $8.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  What?

• 2:55Dax Shepard?

  Okay, I need to talk about something that doesn't get enough respect. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese. This is not a casual burger. This is a crafted burger. We're talking 100% fresh beef cooked right when you order it. No artificial flavors, no fillers, no preservatives, just beef doing what beef is supposed to do. And here's a detail I love. There's a cowbell sound in the kitchen. When somebody orders a Quarter Pounder with Cheese, a cowbell goes off and the grill master throws a fresh patty down. That's like having your own entrance music at McDonald's. I want a cowbell for everything in life. The onions are hand topped by someone who just knows the right amount. Two slices of cheese laid out in a star pattern. So every single bite gets cheese and two pickles side by side. So you're never in a pickle desert.

• 3:39Dax Shepard?

  Every bite is accounted for. Someone engineered this thing with love. I love a Quarter Pounder.

• 3:45Speaker 01

  Me too. That's my order. It's a Quarter Pounder with Cheese. I love it. I didn't know they put so much effort that they did a star formation. I should have known because you can taste it when there's effort.

• 3:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, the love. Don't tell anyone this, but I'll put two of them back.

• 4:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not surprised.

• 4:03Dax Shepard?

  The Quarter Pounder with Cheese with Fries and a Drink now $8 for a limited time only. Only at McDonald's for a limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska and California and for delivery. Fresh beef not available in Alaska and Hawaii. Offer not valid for delivery.

• 4:40Speaker 02

  Hi.

• 4:41Dax Shepard?

  Hi, can you hear us?

• 4:43Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh, I can hear you.

• 4:44Dax Shepard?

  Where are you at?

• 4:45Speaker 02

  So I am in Ontario, Canada. The story takes place in London, Ontario. I've heard you speak of London before.

• 4:51Dax Shepard?

  Halfway between Detroit and Toronto, home of McAdams.

• 4:55Speaker 02

  That's right. Before we start, I did want to say something to the two of you that I thought was kind of cool. So a few years ago, I bought a manifestation journal. And the very first thing that I wrote in that journal was that I wanted to meet Monica Padman, Dax Shepard, and Kristen Bell.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  Oh. You got two out of three.

• 5:15Dax Shepard?

  You're 66% of the way there.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  That's so fun. I believe in manifesting.

• 5:20Speaker 02

  Well, I do now.

• 5:23Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so you dated a criminal?

• 5:25Speaker 02

  I did.

• 5:25Dax Shepard?

  Oh my God, please walk us through it.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  To set the scene, I was fresh out of college for social services. I thought I was going to save the world. And I was also fresh out of a long-term relationship. I was only 21. It was the tail end of high school through the first bit of college. So I didn't know much about dating either. So I was fresh-faced all around and I decided to try online dating. I saw this picture pop up, this dude, tattoos, cute eyes, really nice. His name was Dan. I will use his real name. I'll tell you why after.

• 5:56Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great.

• 5:56Speaker 02

  So pretty quickly, I realized he had some issues around substances and addictions. So I thought, okay, I can save him, right? I mean, I took the class.

• 6:06Dax Shepard?

  Can we also add, you're in Canada. You're no stranger to people drinking.

• 6:10Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 6:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 6:11Speaker 02

  So he would disappear a few days at a time and then he would come back sometimes. And he would be hungry and tired and promise it wouldn't happen again. And then he would disappear again.

• 6:21Dax Shepard?

  Do we know what his drug of choice was?

• 6:22Speaker 02

  It was crack and cocaine.

• 6:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, okay.

• 6:25Speaker 02

  So he shows up at my door one day. He is disheveled, shirt was ripped, he's sweating, he's pale. He's looking out my window. I lived on a third story of a building. He's darting back and forth going, Dan, what is the problem? What's happening here? And he's like, nothing, nothing. I said, no, something's going on. Why are you looking out my window? He says, listen, last night I did a smash and grab at the hardware. Store, so he threw a brick or a rock or something into the window, grabbed the quickest thing he could, a vacuum cleaner.

• 6:56Dax Shepard?

  Good luck getting some money out of that.

• 6:58Speaker 02

  And it's heavy, so he runs with this vacuum cleaner. He ended up selling it for drug money. So now he's at my house. No sooner does he finish telling me the story that there is a pounding on my door. They're like, please, open up. And Dan's saying, don't open the door, don't open the door. They must have heard him. They bust through three police officers.

• 7:20Dax Shepard?

  Oh, they kicked the door down?

• 7:21Speaker 02

  I don't think it was locked. I think they just came in.

• 7:23Dax Shepard?

  They used the door handle, okay.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, they were nice. So Dan takes off down the hallway towards my bedroom and three officers quick after him. Next thing I hear is one of the officers go, he jumped. Third story. Three officers back quick the other way and out my door. So I run to my bedroom window and look down expecting to see him down there, because that's a big jump, but he's collapsed in front of the next building. The police caught up with him. I found out that adrenaline must have just kept him running, but he did injure his back. The building I live in at the time is not very big. Everybody knows each other.

• 8:06Speaker 02

  I go outside, everyone's standing outside. It's a big scene. Police have to call an ambulance. Ambulance almost hits him backing up.

• 8:14Dax Shepard?

  Oopsies.

• 8:15Speaker 02

  So I didn't break up with him. I visited him in the hospital while he was recovering. I stayed with him during his little stint in jail for his various crimes.

• 8:25Dax Shepard?

  What was the extent of his injuries while he was in the hospital?

• 8:28Speaker 02

  He injured his back and his ankle, but it was about three days he was in the hospital and then he was okay. So I'm not even entirely sure what it was. But he had a police officer twenty-four seven in the room in the hospital with him until they took him to jail.

• 8:43Speaker 01

  And you stayed with him while he was in jail?

• 8:44Speaker 02

  I did.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  Tell me about his redeemable qualities.

• 8:48Dax Shepard?

  She said cute eyes.

• 8:49Speaker 02

  Tattoos everywhere. Actually, one of the tattoos, he came over one day and said, look at this and shows me he's got my name tattooed across his neck. He was a hopeless romantic.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  An addict, yeah.

• 9:02Dax Shepard?

  Shut up, Monica.

• 9:03Speaker 02

  I just adored him. So fast forward to he's in jail. It's now a few days later and I'm noticing that everybody in the building, no one's talking to me. I go to check the mail and people are staring. The only person that would talk to me was the man who lived directly below me. So I go knock on his door, sitting in his living room and I'm venting. I'm like, no one's talking to me. I'm getting dirty looks. What is going on here? He says, rumor has it, you pushed Dan up that window.

• 9:31Dax Shepard?

  Oh. That's not where my, my mind went to. He had been stealing from everyone in the apartment. They thought you pushed your boyfriend out the window.

• 9:40Speaker 02

  And I'm trying to start my career. I'm like, no. Then this man finishes telling me and his boyfriend walks to the room, looks me up and down. He's, oh my God, murderer.

• 9:49Speaker 01

  Oh, Jesus.

• 9:52Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow.

• 9:53Speaker 02

  I had to move.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  Oh, no. And did you stay with him?

• 9:57Speaker 02

  Two years I stayed with him. So why I'm using his real name is because unfortunately he did pass away.

• 10:04Dax Shepard?

  From his addiction?

• 10:06Speaker 02

  He actually got clean. He met a girl, had some kids. He was doing really well. But he got cancer and within a few weeks of the diagnosis had passed away.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  Wow. Oh, that's so sad.

• 10:19Speaker 02

  It was, but today would have been our anniversary. So I figure that's a little wink from him being like, go ahead and tell my craziness.

• 10:27Dax Shepard?

  I put you through hell, but let me give you two of your three on your list.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:34Dax Shepard?

  Oh, Monica, on behalf of all addicts, I'm sorry.

• 10:37Speaker 02

  It was wild, but great.

• 10:40Speaker 01

  I'm sure you learned a ton.

• 10:41Dax Shepard?

  Did he go to treatment? How did he end up getting clean?

• 10:44Speaker 02

  We lost touch for a bit. I believe he did go to treatment. Then we got back into touch when he was doing well and he had some kids and he was happy.

• 10:51Dax Shepard?

  Did he ever give you an amends?

• 10:53Speaker 02

  He did. He told me about a few things he had stolen from me that I never found out about. And he did apologize.

• 11:01Speaker 02

  Sweetest guy.

• 11:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:04Dax Shepard?

  Oh, man. Well, I'm sorry you went through that.

• 11:06Speaker 01

  Me too. Also shame on you for pushing him out the window.

• 11:09Dax Shepard?

  I might have helped get him sober, though.

• 11:12Speaker 02

  I'm just surprised he made it as far as he did with his injuries. He used to say, if they want me, they have to catch me.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  Wow. And they sure did.

• 11:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:24Dax Shepard?

  Oh, well, Monica, I'm sorry you went through that. But also, you know, if you're laying on your deathbed in 80 years and you have literally nothing of excitement to look back on, I don't know that that's a win either. So you got a chapter in your life that was harrowing. Is that a positive spin?

• 11:41Speaker 01

  I think that's perfect.

• 11:43Dax Shepard?

  Well, it's lovely meeting you. I want you to stay warm in this. What are they calling this one? It's some kind of cold snap. You know this, Monica? Home in all the countries in some crazy.

• 11:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:53Dax Shepard?

  Maybe even, is Georgia cold?

• 11:54Speaker 01

  It wasn't when I was there and I haven't heard anything, so hopefully not.

• 11:58Dax Shepard?

  All right. Well, Monica, Happy New Year. We're wishing you all the best.

• 12:02Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 12:03Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  Bye.

• 12:03Dax Shepard?

  Bye.

• 12:05Speaker 03

  Forty degrees in Georgia. It was a snow on Friday.

• 12:08Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, snow?

• 12:10Dax Shepard?

  Get your skis out, Nirmi.

• 12:12Speaker 01

  Fun.

• 12:13Speaker 03

  Forty is the high.

• 12:14Dax Shepard?

  Ooh.

• 12:15Speaker 03

  Twenty-six is the low.

• 12:16Dax Shepard?

  Oh, twenty-six.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  That is chilly.

• 12:20Speaker 04

  Hi.

• 12:21Dax Shepard?

  Hi, how are you?

• 12:22Speaker 04

  I'm great. How are you?

• 12:24Dax Shepard?

  Good. Is this Phoenisha?

• 12:26Speaker 04

  This is Phoenisha.

• 12:27Dax Shepard?

  Where are you?

• 12:28Speaker 04

  I am in Phoenix, Arizona.

• 12:30Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  You're not too far away from us.

• 12:32Dax Shepard?

  Well, let me just list the things I love about Arizona. Of course, home of Lakey Jakes. If you listen to the show, you know that's my obsession. But also, you can drive a doom buggy down the highway there.

• 12:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, and on the main roads, there's like tractors and stuff.

• 12:45Speaker 04

  Love it.

• 12:46Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so you dated a criminal, which is very exciting.

• 12:49Speaker 04

  So exciting.

• 12:49Dax Shepard?

  So exciting. Please walk us through it.

• 12:52Speaker 04

  I'm single and like most singles, I go on dating apps and I had a match with this guy. I will say I was so taken back by his good looks that all logic went out the window.

• 13:03Dax Shepard?

  It's powerful, right?

• 13:04Speaker 04

  It sure is, especially with the blue eyes.

• 13:08Speaker 04

  We matched, we started talking and we quickly moved the conversation to texts. And he's like, I'll just call you. And I was like, okay, cool. He calls me, we're on the phone and he's like, hey, how do you pronounce your name? And I said, Phoenisha. And he's like, Phoenisha. Phoenisha. I like how that rolls off my tongue.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 13:27Speaker 04

  It kind of came off as a little weird, but I again, didn't think anything of it. And so we start talking about where we should go out for our first date. And he's like, well, I want to take you bike riding at night near a canal. And I was like, I don't think that's appropriate for a first date.

• 13:43Speaker 01

  What? Oh, my God.

• 13:44Dax Shepard?

  I want to hold on. I want to take you bike riding at night by a canal.

• 13:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 13:49Speaker 01

  So specific.

• 13:50Dax Shepard?

  That's one step away from I want to take you on a date next to a six foot hole I dug.

• 13:55Speaker 04

  Hi, I want to murder you.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:57Speaker 04

  So I was like, no, that's not appropriate for a first date. Let's just meet during the day in public. So we agreed to meet for lunch the next day. Lunch goes well. He's super good looking in person, too. After the date, he walks me to my car and he's like, I had a good time. I want to see you again. And he kind of has me like up against my car because he walked me to my car. And he's leaning forward. He's like, we really need to go on that bike ride. And I was like, I don't want to go. He's like, I think we really should go. I was like, I don't even have a bike. He's like, I have a bike for you. We can go. I know of a great spot. You can see the stars. And I was like, I don't think so.

• 14:34Dax Shepard?

  Well, first of all, I just want to applaud your boundaries. I think a lot of people when meeting someone that's gorgeous, they're trying to go along with anything just to keep everything moving forward. And so I'm already pretty impressed, although I also hope you end up on this bike ride. So we know what happens on it.

• 14:51Speaker 04

  I don't think I would be here if I ended up on that bike ride.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  I'm glad you did not do that.

• 14:55Speaker 04

  So he's like, I'll call you later. I'm like, okay. So I'm driving home and I'm like, oh crap. I did not ask him the one question I ask guys before I meet them. Have you ever been arrested?

• 15:05Dax Shepard?

  Ooh.

• 15:06Speaker 04

  And I also looked him up before I go out with them because better safe than sorry. But again, being so googly eyed about his good looks, I didn't think about it. And so I text him, I'm like, hey, have you ever been to jail? And he's like, no. I was like, have you ever been arrested? He's like, no. I'm like, okay. So later that night, he calls me and we're just catching up about our day and he brings up the bike ride again.

• 15:30Dax Shepard?

  Oh, boy.

• 15:31Speaker 04

  He's like, you have to go. It's so nice. At this point, I was getting really turned off.

• 15:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:37Speaker 04

  And just didn't understand why he was being so pushy and not respecting my boundaries. So I was like, mm hmm. We ended the conversation. I got home, I looked him up online and to my shock, that previous month, he had been arrested for assault and battery, kidnapping.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 15:55Speaker 04

  Disorderly conduct.

• 15:57Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 15:59Speaker 04

  And I was like, what the hell?

• 16:01Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 16:02Dax Shepard?

  Really quick, how do you find that info out? I think people might benefit from knowing how you discovered that.

• 16:07Speaker 04

  You can find out a lot about a person with their phone number, which is kind of the scary part. So I had his phone number. I went on one of the websites, just typed it in. His first name, last name came up.

• 16:17Dax Shepard?

  Did they match who he had said he was?

• 16:19Speaker 04

  Yes, that did match and the age too. And then you take that information and depending on where you live, for us, it's Maricopa County. So like the Maricopa County Superior Court website, that's where you would go and then you click on criminal and you would just fill in their name. And if they have anything for criminal or even legal or family, it comes right up.

• 16:39Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow. Someone smart should put that in a one step app.

• 16:44Speaker 01

  A new app.

• 16:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, Safety Screener. And then you can type in someone's name and then it does all that stuff for you and just gives you a laundry list of what they've done.

• 17:00Dax Shepard?

  This episode is brought to you by Dell. Gifts mean more when they have the power to give more. They can inspire more discovery, give more confidence and unwrap more of who you are. This Black Friday, give a gift that goes beyond the box. The Dell XPS 13 laptop with a beautiful design and cutting edge performance. It helps you unlock more possibilities. It's the thinnest, lightest XPS laptop yet with touchscreen, a backlit keyboard and long lasting battery life to power you through your day. Built with a durable aluminum chassis, weighing just 2.2 pounds and Intel Core processors. It's fast, reliable and portable enough to keep up wherever you go. Visit dell.com to explore the possibilities of XPS.

• 17:44Dax Shepard?

  While shopping, you'll also find great perks like Dell Rewards. Fast free shipping, premium support and financing with flexible payment options. Plus you can find great deals on monitors and accessories. That means you can score a whole new setup now for less. This Black Friday sale is one you don't want to miss. Add to dell.com/deals. That's dell.com/deals.

• 18:11Dax Shepard?

  We are supported by Squarespace. So here's something I think about a lot. Most people I talk to on this show, the ones doing really interesting things. They all had a version of their work that existed before anyone else saw it. It was just theirs, notes, ideas, projects they were tinkering with. And then at some point they made the decision to share it. That's the part that's scary, right? Going from I'm working on something to here's what I made. Rob went through the exact same thing, building our site on Squarespace. And what made it doable was that he didn't have to become a web developer overnight. He just had to show up with the idea. Squarespace handles the rest. Beautiful templates that actually look like you hired someone, built an SEO so people can find you. Email campaigns, scheduling analytics, all under one roof. No code, no patchwork of random tools.

• 18:56Dax Shepard?

  And honestly, the thing I keep coming back to is how low the barrier is. If you've got something you've been building quietly and you're ready for people to see it. Squarespace makes that leap feel a lot less traumatic. Head to squarespace.com/dax for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code DAX to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. We get support from Skims. Okay, I have a confession. I genuinely love matching pajamas. It's the best part of Christmas morning, really. Everyone in the same matching set, looking ridiculously cute in front of the tree.

• 19:32Speaker 01

  I love matching pajamas. I'm literally going to be in coordinating sets with all my friends this holiday season. Because I got them, spoiler to my friends who are listening. The same Skims pajama set I've been living in. They are so soft and cozy and they look cute. So you can leave the house and go get a late night hot chocolate and be cozy.

• 19:53Dax Shepard?

  It's so great how Skims has sets for everyone too. Women's, men's, kids, even your pets. So nobody in your life has to be left out this year.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  I have a bunch of different pajama sets. One of my favorite is the organic cotton sleep long sleeve set.

• 20:09Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 20:10Speaker 01

  It is so comfortable, very chic, too. The top is a button down, but very, very soft, easy to sleep in. But as I said before, you can multi-purpose this and look super cute.

• 20:22Dax Shepard?

  Hot chocolate runs. It's like the pajamas we grew up in, except without the scratchy polyester that made opening presents feel more like a hot yoga class that nobody signed up for.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  All the nostalgia, none of the discomfort. Shop my favorite loungewear and pajamas at skims.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select podcasts in the survey and be sure to select Armature Expert in the dropdown menu that follows. If you're looking for the perfect gifts for everyone on your list, the Skims Holiday Shop is now open at skims.com.

• 20:51Dax Shepard?

  We get support from ZipRecruiter. Oh, get recruiting. So I went down this rabbit hole the other day on real holiday jobs that exist and I couldn't stop. Somebody out there is hiring a ham glazer, a professional ham glazer. Another place is hiring a lead elf, implying a whole hierarchy of elves I had never even considered. Here's the thing, these jobs need real skills. People like that are hard to find. Whether you're hiring for one of these roles or any other role, the best way to find qualified people who are genuinely excited about your role is on ZipRecruiter. And right now you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/dax. Plus ZipRecruiter has a new feature that shows you the most interested qualified candidates

• 21:35Dax Shepard?

  first, so you meet the right people faster. No wonder ZipRecruiter is the number one rated hiring site based on G2. Let ZipRecruiter find the right people for your roles, seasonal or otherwise. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/dax. At ziprecruiter.com/dax, meet your match on ZipRecruiter.

• 22:07Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so when you read that stuff, you're like, holy smokes, what do you do next?

• 22:11Speaker 04

  So I text him, of course, because I'm curious. I want to push the limits a little. And I was like, so one more time, have you ever been arrested? Have you ever been to jail? And he's like, no. And I was like, okay. So I blocked him and I didn't talk to him again.

• 22:26Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 22:28Dax Shepard?

  Did it cross your mind to alert law enforcement? Like, hey, this dude is trying to get people to go on this bike ride. He's clearly courting a victim. Uh oh, I don't mean to make you feel guilty.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  No, so I don't think it would work.

• 22:41Speaker 04

  I didn't, I didn't want to toy with that and open a whole pot of worms that I probably wasn't equipped to carry. But I was just like, what the hell?

• 22:50Speaker 01

  We also know from the stalking episodes, they can't do anything unless it's already happened, unfortunately.

• 22:57Speaker 04

  And because I didn't go on the bike ride, I don't have anything.

• 23:00Speaker 01

  To report.

• 23:03Speaker 04

  But for the longest time, when I would drive by a canal, I would just look at it and get like this eerie feeling. And then for a while, there were bodies that were being found in the canal.

• 23:11Dax Shepard?

  Oh, have you looked him up? How long ago was this?

• 23:14Speaker 04

  This was about a year ago. Yes, I did look him up after I made the submission and he pleaded guilty to some of the charges.

• 23:22Dax Shepard?

  Oh, he did. So he's likely in jail currently, I would hope.

• 23:25Speaker 04

  I don't think he is because I did see him on the app last week.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 23:31Dax Shepard?

  How can you admit to kidnapping and not be in jail?

• 23:34Speaker 04

  Good looks, good lawyer. I have no clue. Yeah, he's on the apps.

• 23:38Speaker 01

  That's bad.

• 23:39Dax Shepard?

  Ay yi yi. Oh my god. Okay, so ladies and dudes.

• 23:43Speaker 01

  Do a double check.

• 23:45Dax Shepard?

  Once you get that number, run it through Phoenisha's system and make sure they have no record of kidnapping. Yikes.

• 23:53Speaker 04

  Before I got in a relationship last year, my friend did like an extensive background check on the guy. I will say I'm very diligent now and I don't get blindsided by the good looks anymore.

• 24:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  Well, you did the right thing the whole time. It sounds like you kept yourself safe.

• 24:08Dax Shepard?

  You know, dudes weaponize those good looks. You look at a lot of these serial killers and they're quite handsome.

• 24:13Speaker 04

  It can be captivating.

• 24:14Dax Shepard?

  Cause if a gargoyle invites you on a bike ride, it's easy to say no, thank you.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  That is true.

• 24:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, I always joke that if I did get kidnapped, it's because he had a good car. He was good looking or a puppy.

• 24:26Speaker 04

  That's how he lured me in. Dax, okay, so I have been freaking out all week. To say that I love you would be an understatement of the year. You've been one of my first crushes and as I've gotten older and learned more about you, I just fall more in love with you.

• 24:40Dax Shepard?

  Oh, you're playing it very cool.

• 24:42Speaker 04

  Thank you. Well, I think it's great, the work that you're doing and how you've been vulnerable and sharing your struggles with other people. I used to work as a substance abuse counselor, although I don't have experience firsthand with addiction. I have seen what it does to people and how it's hard for them to overcome it. So I just love that you're vulnerable enough to share that with people.

• 25:02Dax Shepard?

  Thank you.

• 25:03Speaker 04

  And if I could give one shout out to my kids, please?

• 25:05Dax Shepard?

  Yes, do.

• 25:06Speaker 04

  We listen to your show all the time. I vet the episodes and then once I know they're kid friendly, we listen to them. But I just want to give out shout out to Brody and Liam. My youngest was a little bum. He couldn't be here today. He said, little kids have stories to share too.

• 25:21Dax Shepard?

  Oh, we should start a kids' version of Armchair Anonymous. That would be hilarious.

• 25:26Speaker 04

  I think you should, but thank you guys so much. Love you too, Monica. Thank you.

• 25:30Dax Shepard?

  All right, take care.

• 25:31Speaker 04

  Bye.

• 25:34Speaker 01

  Hello?

• 25:35Dax Shepard?

  Hello, can you hear us?

• 25:36Speaker 05

  Hey guys, yes, I can hear you.

• 25:38Dax Shepard?

  Look at this screen. That is a freeze frame unpunked.

• 25:43Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 25:45Dax Shepard?

  Two thousand and three.

• 25:46Speaker 05

  Two thousand and three, yes. I thought it'd be a nice little homage to you because it kind of reminded me a little bit about the story I'm going to share today.

• 25:53Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wonderful. Where are you?

• 25:56Speaker 05

  I would like to use a fake name, but I am in the PNW. We're going to go with Ariana for this story.

• 26:02Speaker 01

  Ariana Grande?

• 26:03Dax Shepard?

  Timely.

• 26:04Speaker 05

  Kind of a little bit of a VPR connection because I'm going to call the criminal boyfriend Tom here.

• 26:10Dax Shepard?

  Okay, wait, what's VPR?

• 26:12Speaker 05

  Vanderpump Rules.

• 26:13Speaker 01

  Oh, I should have known that.

• 26:16Dax Shepard?

  You know all about Vanderpump Rules?

• 26:18Speaker 01

  I don't know all about, but I know enough that I should have gotten that and I'm embarrassed and I'm going to cut it out.

• 26:24Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so.

• 26:24Speaker 01

  Just kidding.

• 26:25Dax Shepard?

  Tom and Ariana, somewhere in the vague Pacific Northwest.

• 26:28Speaker 05

  So I'm up here now, but the story actually takes place down in your region, San Fernando Valley. I'm a SoCal native, but I've been up here since a little bit after this story. This story takes place between 2012 and 2013. I was about 22 at the time. I'd been in a really serious relationship. It ended after six years and I was single for the first time. And it'd been a tumultuous year for me. My mom was really sick with cancer. I'd been taking care of my grandpa that passed away. And I just was kind of deep in the trenches of life and just trying to figure out what adulthood was going to look like for me. I was single, living alone.

• 27:08Speaker 05

  And I had also, right after that long relationship ended, transitioned into a new job where I was an apartment manager. And I was managing a pretty large multifamily, low income complex in the valley. I was in way over my head. I had a manager's unit that came with my salary. And so I had a detached little four bedroom townhouse unit in the complex. And I had gotten two roommates at the time. And so the three of us were living there. And what do you do when you're single and young in the valley and you don't know how to date? I started a couple of online dating profiles. 2012, not a really familiar thing.

• 27:50Speaker 05

  I guess I should have known more about the red flags at many points in the story, but I didn't. And so that's what led me to meet Tom. So he invited me and one of my roommates over one night, just come over and hang out. We'll have some drinks.

• 28:05Dax Shepard?

  Can I ask really quick, on the dating profile, what was it that caught your attention?

• 28:10Speaker 05

  He definitely had like a bit of a bad boy element and like the pictures and his correspondence.

• 28:17Dax Shepard?

  Was he the opposite of the six year long boyfriend?

• 28:19Speaker 05

  He was the opposite. So we went over there, had a little night of fun, just hanging out pretty casual. I do remember like his house was really gross and he was also living with his grandpa, which I just remember catching the grandpa in a hospital. Bed in one of the rooms of the house. We kept it casual for a few months. I was still dating around. It wasn't like anything exclusive, but then one weekend he called me and said, hey, I need a favor. My grandpa wrote me this check and I lost my wallet and I need your help. Can I sign it over to you? And you just put it in your bank account. Like when the money clears, I'll give you a little bit as a kickback.

• 28:58Speaker 05

  A thank you for helping me out. I was really young and naive and didn't realize that I was clearly about to commit some check fraud. And I did it.

• 29:06Dax Shepard?

  Do you remember how much it was for?

• 29:08Speaker 05

  I think it was for eight hundred dollars, somewhere in that range. And maybe he told me he'd give me like two hundred dollars out of it or something. But of course, my bank account ended up overdrawn. My account was flagged for fraud. And I remember sorting through it and just letting it go and feeling this is like a bad guy in my life. But I just continued to talk to him for no really great reason at this point. I just kind of kept getting sucked in.

• 29:32Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I have a great reason. Your grandfather just died. Your mother's super sick. You're in over her head. You need comfort. Any little burp of comfort, you're gonna seek.

• 29:42Speaker 01

  That's impossible to resist in a moment like that.

• 29:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, thanks, guys. It's a big part of my life that I'm not super proud of, but kind of put a pin in that situation of the check. And fast forward, the next probably six months are just utter chaos with this guy. He weasels his way into living in my apartment, says, oh, I could be another roommate. You have a third room still available. And just takes over every facet of my life, destroys the apartment, ultimately chases my roommates out. You know, he's doing a lot of shady stuff, but I also am not fully aware of what's going on and still kind of having like a blind eye to some of it. There was a lot of introduction to some recreational harder drugs at the time. And everything was just kind of a big messy blur. And I was going down the road of fuck around and find out,

• 30:28Speaker 05

  but just was enjoying the ride, I guess, as I was going along with it. So fast forward again to closer to my birthday later the next year in 2013. We had gone out to dinner to go visit my parents and we're driving home and the apartment complex is gated. And I go through the gate and my unit is attached just to the left. And as I'm pulling in, it's nighttime and it's dark, but there's streetlights in the parking lot. I can see what looks like people going in and out of my apartment, not roommates. And I get a little bit closer and I can see what's going on is my apartment is being robbed all out in the open.

• 31:06Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 31:07Speaker 05

  I see a couple of pickup trucks and a handful of guys carrying lamps. I see like an end table being brought out.

• 31:14Dax Shepard?

  Oh, my God. I can't imagine your possessions at twenty-two were all that valuable.

• 31:19Speaker 05

  They were not all that valuable.

• 31:21Dax Shepard?

  It's like robbing Goodwill at this point.

• 31:23Speaker 05

  Exactly. As I'm looking at the situation unfold, I can see these guys are not strangers. I recognize them as a trio of kind of motorcycle gay slash Russian mobster vibe folks that my ex-boyfriend Tom at the time had introduced to me as friends a few weeks earlier. When I met them, it was a very uncomfortable vibe as most of the company that he was keeping were, but they weren't friendly enough. There was a leader of the pack. We'll call him Mishka. And Mishka, at one point when I had met him, had told me how he had a deep passion for martial arts.

• 32:02Speaker 05

  He was wondering if he could teach class to the underprivileged children in my community that I was managing.

• 32:09Dax Shepard?

  Oh, boy.

• 32:10Speaker 05

  It was a really oddly specific request that stuck out a lot. And, you know, I thought, okay, well, maybe these guys aren't so bad, but also maybe they're not great. And also, within that timeframe, after meeting him, my ex-boyfriend had brought home like a felony amount of weed. There was at least a few big bags that I had seen and feeling way in over my head, but not realizing the level of criminal activity of the partner that I was in the trenches with. You know, I saw the weed and then a couple of days later I didn't see it and I just didn't really ask any questions. I knew that he had sourced it from these guys and that's kind of where I left it. So I assumed that whatever was going on had something to do with drug deal gone bad, some retaliation here of robbing my apartment.

• 32:54Speaker 05

  Although he was living there, it was filled with my stuff, of course, because he was not contributing a lot to the situation. And so I see these guys and I'm like, what in the world is going on? And he tells Me go over to your manager's office unit, which was on the other side of the parking lot. Like lock the doors, close the windows. I'll take care of it. Just don't call the police. I go over there and I also have security cameras in there. So I can see everything that's going on in the unit. And it was close enough that I could also kind of see through the window a little bit. And I'm just watching for what feels like probably like a half an hour or so.

• 33:26Dax Shepard?

  Wow.

• 33:26Speaker 05

  And I'm just seeing Tom just flailing his arms, yelling, trying to slow them down. And they're not trying to like attack him or take him out or anything, but they're just continuing to like one by one.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 33:38Speaker 05

  Take everything out into a handful of pickup trucks that they had brought and their motorcycles. And then the strangest thing occurred and I'm watching and all of a sudden Tom and Mishka just embrace in this like big bear hug. I'm looking at the camera and it looks like there could be tears falling. I am not sure what's going on. And then all of a sudden, like it's a flip of the switch. These guys just start systematically unloading everything back into my apartment.

• 34:05Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 34:06Dax Shepard?

  What?

• 34:07Speaker 05

  Tom is helping them unload everything. I saw them embracing like another hug at the end and that was it.

• 34:13Dax Shepard?

  What if you came to find out they were just there to execute a deep clean? Like we gotta get everything out, shampoo, deep carpets.

• 34:20Speaker 05

  Check for something. Maybe they were looking for the weed. Who knows? Tom just said it was a misunderstanding and kind of swept it under the rug. And of course I knew that this was a building block to something not good brewing. And these guys are in my home, in my place of work.

• 34:34Dax Shepard?

  Did you have a sense that if you asked Tom to leave, he wasn't gonna comply? Like, did you feel like you had lost even the ability to get rid of him?

• 34:42Speaker 05

  Absolutely. I narrowed this down for kind of a more humorous and entertaining aspect. But it was a pretty bad and dark period of time.

• 34:50Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. And isn't it crazy? We take on the shame of having not.

• 34:56Dax Shepard?

  Advocated for ourself, yet we're so clearly the victim. But it's hard to not feel some weird shame. I think that's why criminality can persist in the way it does.

• 35:06Speaker 05

  Yes, things didn't end so well for him either, which also circles back to those feelings of a lot of guilt and shame. But I'll loop back to where this all ties together. So I swept it under the rug, wanted to believe that was it. Spoiler, it wasn't. So about another month passed by. And at this point, our relationship is really falling apart, which is good. He was not staying in the apartment with me anymore. It was a Saturday night and I'm just blowing off some steam, partying a bit with some friends and another kind of romantic partner that I had, who was a close friend, kind of the person I really wanted to be with at the time. But I was hindered by this leash from the villain in the story. And in any case, we're partying, we're doing a little Molly.

• 35:49Speaker 05

  I hadn't talked to the other guy friend in the story since then. And I called him last night in preparation and said, hey, do you remember this crazy night 12 years ago? And he was like, oh, my God, you know, I got a bad memory, but I remember that like it was yesterday. And I'm like, let me tell you, it was not cool. So he helped me fine tune the details. And there was him and two friends and we're rolling balls in the trenches at this point. He reminded me, we were doing like a little massage train on the ground. We have the lights, the music, and then all of a sudden, the front door swings open and in comes this Mishka mobster. Oh, my God. And he prances right in and is like, hey, what are you guys doing? You having a party? Where's Tom?

• 36:31Speaker 05

  And we're obviously deep in an altered state, hence why my door wasn't locked. And I was just incoherent to the situation, but also trying to figure out, is this guy going to shoot us? What is going on here? What is he looking for? Two others at the pack were just hanging out by the door outside. So it was not a great setup, quite uncomfortable. I'm sure it would have been a lot worse if I was in a sober mind state. But my friend recalled that he came and just like sat at the table. It was like, we've been looking for Tom for quite a while. I know he's got to be here. I mean, I see his dog here. We had a dog at the time. That we had got during our relationship and he had left the dog with me and played to San Diego. And so I had the dog and it's like, I don't know where he is. Look around. He's not here.

• 37:16Speaker 05

  I don't have anything to do with whatever is going on with you guys, but you need to go. And he really was hung up on the dog aspect. Like there's no way this guy's gonna leave his dog behind. He loves his dog.

• 37:26Dax Shepard?

  He's like a genius detective. All of a sudden he thinks he's really figured something out.

• 37:30Speaker 05

  My friend also recalled that he definitely saw they were armed and that he had a gun on him. I've blocked out a lot of elements of this, but I'm sure that had something to do with the level of interrogation. It was such a creepy demeanor. Like he was friendly, but obviously he was not there to hang out. And he ultimately was like, all right, well, make sure you let him know we're looking for him. He did ask on the way out, like, and remember, I'm really serious about that martial arts class for the kids in the community here. Please give me a call to talk about.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  So weird.

• 38:00Dax Shepard?

  It's like a Guy Ritchie movie. The guy also really wants to teach someone martial arts.

• 38:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, he was not letting that part go. So he left. We were okay. And shortly after, things were quickly unraveling and obviously I was trying to desperately get out of this relationship. And I was lamenting to a mutual friend, I just feel so stupid. I shouldn't know not that first red flag of the check fraud incident. When we were first dating to kick this guy to the curb and she laughed and said, you know, he's done this before. Don't you know his Judge Judy story?

• 38:31Speaker 01

  Oh, God.

• 38:32Speaker 05

  And I said, no, I got on the computer that night, did a little Google search and there he was. As a defendant on Judge Judy for scamming a very innocent foreign exchange student that he had met at Six Flags Magic Mountain.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 38:49Speaker 05

  For check fraud.

• 38:50Dax Shepard?

  This is so bizarre.

• 38:51Speaker 05

  It was not great. So it was a pretty full circle moment and pretty embarrassing, but also like, well, this is what it is. But I was ultimately able to break free from him after a couple more months of turmoil. And I decided pretty quickly after the second interrogation incident in my apartment that I just needed to get away. I was in way over my head with a very active criminal. So I ended up. Moving up here to the PNW and it was the best decision of my life. I met my husband a year or so after I moved up here and we have a great blended family and a beautiful five year old daughter. She just celebrated her fifth birthday, actually two days after your big birthday, Dex.

• 39:32Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 39:33Speaker 05

  You guys are almost birthday twins.

• 39:35Dax Shepard?

  Did you ever find out through the grapevine what happened to Tom? He couldn't have been long for this world in freedom.

• 39:42Speaker 05

  I did. After we split up and I came up here, he moved, I think, to live with family in Indiana, presumably on the run. God only knows how many other activities were going on and people were looking for him. But I did learn from a mutual friend a few years after he'd been here that he ultimately committed suicide.

• 40:01Dax Shepard?

  He did.

• 40:02Speaker 05

  Even though he brought so much misery and chaos and just destruction to my life and to his, there were obviously parts of him that were redeeming. And it's hard when you go through such a dark period of time with somebody and have a lot of remorse and resentment. But I felt like when that happened, it helped me understand that a lot of his actions towards me were coming from something that I could not comprehend.

• 40:27Dax Shepard?

  You're not generally choosing that life path because things are going well and you're feeling good. Kind of an AA thing, but it's often helpful to remember that the people that you resent and have harmed you, they're the ones that will live with their mistakes. You don't live with their mistakes. You live with your mistakes and people live with their own mistakes. And the bill comes due. No one really gets away with anything. Maybe they don't go to jail, maybe they don't die, but the suffering is gonna be there. You can't avoid that.

• 40:57Speaker 05

  That's very good insight. It's been a long time. I really put a lot of this behind me and I'm really happy and have made a lot of good choices since then. But it's a tough part of my story overall, but it was also the defining moment and action that really changed everything. And, you know, I fantasized about telling you guys some portion of this story for a long time. It's a real dream come true.

• 41:19Speaker 01

  Well, we're really grateful you shared it.

• 41:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that's a wild one.

• 41:23Speaker 05

  I remember hearing in an episode a couple of weeks ago, you guys were like, oh, we need to do like a time you were dating a drug dealer or dating a criminal. And then here it is.

• 41:32Dax Shepard?

  Here we are.

• 41:32Speaker 05

  It's gonna be my time to shine.

• 41:34Dax Shepard?

  Somebody's listening. They're like, I know they're gonna have a, if you've been trampled by an elephant prompt someday. And just rest assured, every prompt will come.

• 41:43Speaker 05

  A lot of crazy things that I told in just this little part, but it was a doozy. It branched out into a lot of other crazy shit.

• 41:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I'm glad you lived through it and it made you who you are.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  Made you stronger.

• 41:52Speaker 05

  Thank you. All right. Thanks, guys.

• 41:55Dax Shepard?

  Bye.

• 42:04Dax Shepard?

  We get support from No Bull. The holidays can get hectic. You finally hit a post summer routine and suddenly you're on hosting duty every week.

• 42:14Speaker 01

  That's when you really need to ground yourself.

• 42:17Dax Shepard?

  Exactly. And that's why I keep my training routine through the holidays. It's the whole No Bull idea. There's a no bullshit training brand built around consistency, honesty, and just putting in the work. It's not about adding more pressure to an already packed schedule. It's about having the gear and the habits to move through the season your way. My personal favorite, all three of the shoes are fantastic. The Outwork, the Outwork Flex, and the Drive 2. I like the Drive 2 because it's a hybrid and I lift, of course, but I also like to do what's called box jumps.

• 42:47Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 42:48Dax Shepard?

  Right? I do a lot of jumping onto a little platform and I want a little more flexibility. And boy, do they deliver.

• 42:54Speaker 01

  And if you're a cardio person and you're running and you also need to be lifting.

• 42:58Dax Shepard?

  And the style is banging. I don't know what to say. Beautiful style, very breathable, very, very comfortable, lots of support. They were built for lifting.

• 43:06Speaker 01

  They also make a great holiday gift. You know, I love gifting, a purposeful one that actually supports someone's goals and routines. And it's not a gift that just ends up in the back of the closet.

• 43:15Dax Shepard?

  Stay stronger than the season. Head to nobullproject.com all holiday season to shop new deals every week. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Every family has that one holiday tradition nobody actually enjoys, but everyone keeps doing because stopping it would feel like a federal offense. For me, it was a specific meal situation that I will not name because my family listens. But at some point, you have to ask yourself, am I doing this because I love it or because I'm afraid of what happens if I don't?

• 43:45Speaker 01

  Yes, and that question applies to so much more than the holidays. I think a lot of us carry these invisible rules about how we're Supposed to spend the holidays. We were supposed to see what it's supposed to look like. And when you start unpacking that with a therapist, you realize half of your stress is coming from rules you didn't even write.

• 44:02Dax Shepard?

  This is where BetterHelp can be a great resource during the holidays. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences, which means they typically get it right the first time. If you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored recs.

• 44:21Speaker 01

  I just love therapy. I've been avoiding it recently, or not avoiding it, but I was like, oh, I'm busy, I'm busy, I'm busy. I haven't canceled, canceled, canceled. But then I-

• 44:29Dax Shepard?

  You start feeling it.

• 44:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. Cause then I had it this past weekend and I was like, oh my God. And just thank God, thank God for her. Yeah.

• 44:37Dax Shepard?

  BetterHelp is now in-network with more than 125 health plans with many copays as low as $15 for eligible members. And if you don't have eligible insurance or live outside the US, you can still get 20% off your first month. Sign up and get 20% off at betterhelp.com/dax. That's betterhelp, H E L P, dot com slash dax. We get support from Superhuman. Look, I love what I do. The conversations, the ideas, the creative stuff, but there's this whole other layer of work that eats my day alive. The inbox that never ends. Docs I need to get through, threads I'm behind on. And by the time I've dealt with all that, the stuff I actually want to focus on gets whatever's left.

• 45:21Dax Shepard?

  What I needed was something that just works where I'm already working. Not another tab to open, not another thing to set up. Superhuman Go, from the makers of Grammarly, is different. It's already right there, inside your email, your docs, your browser. You don't go to it. It's already working alongside you. You're deep in a long thread, highlight it, and it pulls the key points. About to send something important? It flags what doesn't add up before it leaves your hands. It knows your style, your workflows, and it just backs you up without getting in the way. A thought partner that's already up to speed, at your service, not after your job. So do yourself a favor and try Superhuman Go, from the makers of Grammarly. Find out more at superhuman.com.

• 46:14Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 46:15Dax Shepard?

  Hello. Sorry, I was just polishing off my pre-workout drink. How are you?

• 46:20Speaker 06

  I'm good. How are you guys?

• 46:22Dax Shepard?

  Wonderful. It looks like you're in a yurt.

• 46:24Speaker 01

  Did you make a four?

• 46:25Speaker 06

  Well, my cousin and my best friend made a four for me.

• 46:29Dax Shepard?

  Oh, that was nice of them.

• 46:31Speaker 06

  It's like every blanket in my house. And I think there are brooms stuck to chairs. It's pretty impressive.

• 46:37Speaker 01

  People get really innovative.

• 46:39Dax Shepard?

  Let's pray there's not a structural collapse mid-story.

• 46:43Speaker 06

  One of them's a contractor, so I have faith.

• 46:45Dax Shepard?

  You're in good hands.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  There's integrity in that four.

• 46:48Speaker 06

  Yeah, exactly.

• 46:49Dax Shepard?

  Brittany, where are you in the world?

• 46:50Speaker 06

  I'm outside of Portland, Oregon, in Beaverton, Oregon.

• 46:54Dax Shepard?

  The home of my brother. Beaverton's lovely.

• 46:56Speaker 06

  It's wonderful.

• 46:56Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so you dated a criminal?

• 46:58Speaker 06

  I did. This was in 2012. I was 18, almost 19, in college, away from home for the first time.

• 47:08Dax Shepard?

  Where were you at?

• 47:08Speaker 06

  Down in southern Oregon. I went to go visit a friend who went to a different school about three hours away. He was having a party, lived in this big house with a bunch of roommates, and I meet, sorry, there's a cat intruding on me. I meet this guy at the party, and we just instantly clicked. Super handsome. We talked the whole night. He said that he wasn't a student. He was actually an assistant professor at the school. But he was close to our age, just a little bit older. And yeah, had a great time with him. And when I leave and go back home, we keep texting and talking constantly. And a week or so goes by. I knew so much about him. He was really close with his family. His grandparents took him in when he was little because his mom died really tragically.

• 47:51Speaker 06

  He told me about his ex, who was a liar and a cheater and just awful. Anyways, I decided to go back up and meet him for a weekend. I was really looking forward to it. I get there, and we're walking up to his room, and he just mentions something as we're walking in. He's like, oh, yeah, I just vacuumed for you. We get in there, and the floor is disgusting. I don't know why he would lie about that, but it was obviously a lie. Don't really think anything else of it. I stay the night, and I had to go home the next day. But as I'm getting ready to go, I get a Facebook message, and it's from someone I don't know, but I recognize the name, and it's his ex-girlfriend.

• 48:27Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay. The lying, cheating bitch.

• 48:30Speaker 06

  Yep. And I read it, and he's staring at me, and it says, I want you to beware of Dee. I wish someone would have warned me. He ruined my life. And I just stop and look up at him and I literally was like, oh my God, she is such a bitch. She's crazy.

• 48:45Dax Shepard?

  You lied about the floor, but you were right about the X.

• 48:47Speaker 06

  I know. It's so ridiculous. I go back to my school. Life goes on. We keep talking. He says that he wants to come visit me next. And his car is in the shop or something. So he gets on a Greyhound bus to come see me. I pick him up from the bus station and he gets off. He has like a giant suitcase, a duffel bag and a backpack.

• 49:08Dax Shepard?

  Oh, boy.

• 49:09Speaker 06

  And he's just gonna stay one night with me.

• 49:11Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 49:12Speaker 06

  Whatever. Who cares? Maybe it's full of presents for me. I don't know. And we go back to my apartment, have a great time. Things seem normal. That was a Friday or a Saturday. On Sunday, I'm like, hey, what time do we need to go back to the Greyhound station? And he just kind of like, well, I have a surprise for you. I took some time off work and fall break is coming up soon, so I don't have to go back. I get to stay.

• 49:35Speaker 01

  Oh, God.

• 49:36Dax Shepard?

  Now, really quick, from Friday till Sunday, is your attraction to him staying completely consistent and strong? Is it growing or is it dissipating? Are there other things where you're like, ah, he's not as great as I thought?

• 49:48Speaker 06

  That would happen here and there, but then he would do something that made me feel so special.

• 49:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, love bombs.

• 49:54Speaker 06

  So him telling me like, I'm not leaving was the first time I remember really feeling off about him though. But again, whatever, I'm 19 and don't yet know how to stand up for myself. And he stays. He doesn't have a car there. So he is driving me in my car to school every day while he just sits at my house. One day I remember coming home and I had had $200 sitting on the counter. And I'm like, hey, where did that money go? Well, what money?

• 50:19Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 50:19Speaker 06

  The money that was right here. No one else has been here. What do you mean? Oh, yeah. Oh, that money. Well, um, I remember how you said. That you wanted to stop spending so much.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  Oh my.

• 50:29Speaker 06

  Hit it from you.

• 50:31Speaker 01

  Oh, God.

• 50:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, thanks, Dad.

• 50:33Speaker 01

  Also, what a dumb excuse.

• 50:35Speaker 06

  I get pissed. I'm like, where is it? Give it back. Well, I put it in the TV speaker.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 50:41Speaker 06

  We, I had, yeah, I said, we, I.

• 50:47Speaker 06

  My apartment, my life, my.

• 50:51Speaker 01

  Say it on repeat.

• 50:54Speaker 06

  It's been a long time. It's still a problem, apparently. You remember those big screen TVs, but they were boob tubes? And they had the speakers on the bottom and they sat on those. He's like, I pushed it through there. So if you really want it, I can get it out, but I'll have to take the whole TV apart. My cash stayed in the TV. I don't know. I sort of believed it. I wasn't fully there, but I also kind of believed it, which is terrible.

• 51:16Speaker 01

  Also, how would he get it in if he couldn't get it out?

• 51:19Dax Shepard?

  Well, in addition to being an associate professor, he's also a master mechanic.

• 51:23Speaker 01

  But he said he couldn't get it out without taking apart the TV.

• 51:26Speaker 06

  He said he pulled it up and like shoved it in there.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  Okay, okay.

• 51:30Speaker 06

  A while later, I don't remember exactly how long, but probably a month or so. And weird things happened in between.

• 51:35Speaker 01

  He's still there at the apartment.

• 51:36Dax Shepard?

  A month later.

• 51:37Speaker 06

  Yep. I am going to visit my mom who lives in Hawaii. And I'm gonna go for like a week or 10 days or something. So he drives me and of course he's gonna stay at my apartment and take care of my dog.

• 51:48Dax Shepard?

  Really quick, and this is not to try to shame you for not poking holes. Just a genuine curiosity. Once it had gone beyond two weeks, which was the initial concept, which is spring break or whatever the break was. What was his explanation for why he wasn't returning?

• 52:05Speaker 06

  That he wanted to be with me and he was gonna find his own place down here. Also, I was just at a point in my life where I had very low self-esteem. And the fact that this boy was showing interest in me and making me feel special, it was like, I gotta hold on to it.

• 52:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 52:21Speaker 06

  So he drives me to the airport and drops me off in my car. Kiss him goodbye. He drives away. And little do I know, that's gonna be the last time I ever see him. So get on the six-ish hour flight, land, turn my phone back on, and I have 37 missed calls.

• 52:37Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 52:37Speaker 06

  And so I'm panicking and there are a lot from my dad and there are some from one unknown number. And so I listened to the first voicemail and it's my dad and he's just like, B, in the past few hours, over $5,000 has been racked up on my credit card that you have for emergencies.

• 52:54Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 52:55Speaker 06

  And you better hope it wasn't you because cops are involved. And I'm just like, what the fuck? And I rip open my wallet and there it is in the back, never touched. I have it.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 53:05Speaker 06

  And I listened to another voicemail and the other number turns out to be a detective. Find out, my dad reported this. Detective goes to my apartment, finds my front door wide open. My dog was gone. I guess a neighbor had found my dog running around the parking lot and scooped him up. Detective said that he doesn't know what I had in there, but it looks like things might not be right. There's nothing with the TV. The TV is huge, but there's no, back then, like DVD player and cable box. All of that's gone. And my car, of course, is not there either.

• 53:34Speaker 01

  Oh. Oh, my God.

• 53:38Speaker 06

  Just a nightmare.

• 53:39Dax Shepard?

  Brittany, can I ask you a quick question?

• 53:41Speaker 06

  Please, yeah.

• 53:42Dax Shepard?

  You got a little emotional at that part and I'm curious, when dad enters the equation, are you so ashamed he knows this? Is that why?

• 53:52Speaker 06

  I didn't even first go to, it's him.

• 53:56Dax Shepard?

  Okay, okay, okay, okay.

• 53:58Speaker 06

  I was confused and angry that my dad could think I did this and then feeling like I'm gonna have to defend myself because I have the card. It's not like I lost it. I never even touched it. It's for emergencies. But then when my car's not there, my dad, of course, owns my car, just an old Camry, but he reports it stolen. And Dee and I were texting a little bit. My dad was like, it's gotta be him. And the detective said to just act normal if I can. Don't talk to him about this. And so we didn't talk on the phone. I remember saying I had bad service and I'm there with my mom. She's helping me. So a few days go by and the detective calls me again and he says, we followed up with some of the stores that the purchases were made. One of them was the Walmart right next to my house.

• 54:42Speaker 06

  And they were physical purchases in the store while I'm on the plane. And he goes, we have the video of who did it.

• 54:48Dax Shepard?

  Oh, boy.

• 54:50Speaker 06

  And he emails it to me and I pull it up and it's loading and it's grainy and it's black and white. And I'm watching, it like stops on the purchase. And it's not him. It's not Dee.

• 55:01Dax Shepard?

  Oh, it's not.

• 55:03Speaker 01

  Is it the girlfriend?

• 55:04Dax Shepard?

  Plot twist.

• 55:05Speaker 06

  It's a woman, but she's older. It wasn't the ex-girlfriend. But so now in my mind, I'm like, oh, thank God, it's not Dee. He's still wonderful-ish.

• 55:19Speaker 06

  I'm not dating a terrible person.

• 55:21Speaker 01

  You feel validated in your own choices in life. It's like, oh, I didn't pick this horrible person. That's what the relief really is. My judgment isn't this bad.

• 55:31Speaker 06

  Yeah. And so a few more days go on. I get another call from the detective and he says, we found your car. Dee was driving it. They pulled him over. I guess he instantly confessed everything.

• 55:43Dax Shepard?

  Oh, really?

• 55:44Speaker 06

  He had somehow made a copy of the credit card. He had been making purchases before this with it, but they were spread out and not major. He said, I'm going to return all of it. I was just borrowing it. They arrest him, of course, take him to the little jail in my tiny town. And the detective then tells me, you need to know the phone call that he made. While we had, past tense, had him in custody. I don't remember if he played the recording for me or if he told me. But the woman answers and he says, Mom, they caught us.

• 56:15Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 56:16Dax Shepard?

  They caught us?

• 56:17Speaker 01

  Mom? Oh, my God, this is wild.

• 56:22Dax Shepard?

  I did not see Mom entering the chat.

• 56:25Speaker 06

  Me either. Mom is supposed to be dead.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  Oh, I forgot that part. Oh, my God.

• 56:31Dax Shepard?

  A mother-son con team.

• 56:34Speaker 01

  So she's like kind of munchausen-y, I guess, a little bit. He sucks, but she probably sort of infected him.

• 56:41Dax Shepard?

  What more did we find out?

• 56:43Speaker 06

  They release him. His arraignment is going to be two days later. Of course, he doesn't show up. It was over 20 charges and they issue a warrant for his arrest. And time goes by and meanwhile, I am trying to find him. I'm doing my own investigating and I get, I would say, close to obsessed with investigations and criminology. And they never found him until two years ago, 2022.

• 57:05Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 57:05Speaker 06

  He got pulled over.

• 57:06Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 57:07Speaker 06

  They arrested him, released him again.

• 57:09Speaker 01

  Oh, what?

• 57:09Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  God, the system.

• 57:12Speaker 06

  And he didn't show up again, but in the end, my interest in investigating and criminology and all of these things led to I am now a licensed private investigator.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 57:24Dax Shepard?

  Wow.

• 57:24Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 57:26Dax Shepard?

  There are a lot of plot twists in this thing.

• 57:29Speaker 01

  A lot of these stories are people making lemonade out of bad rotten lemons.

• 57:35Speaker 06

  There were a lot of other things between then and when I got licensed about a year ago that kept pushing me in this direction, but I love it and I'm working on murder cases.

• 57:45Dax Shepard?

  Did you ever reach out to the ex-girlfriend who warned you to find out what she had gone through?

• 57:50Speaker 06

  I didn't.

• 57:51Dax Shepard?

  I would be very curious to know how similar her experience was.

• 57:57Speaker 06

  Yeah, I don't know why I haven't really thought about that.

• 58:00Speaker 01

  You should tell her it was the mom.

• 58:02Dax Shepard?

  Well, maybe she knew.

• 58:04Speaker 01

  Well, don't you think she would straight up say in the message, look, he's a con man with his mom?

• 58:08Dax Shepard?

  It's a mother and son con operation.

• 58:10Speaker 01

  I know it sounds crazy, but it's real. Just ask him.

• 58:13Dax Shepard?

  Well, you would have gone, mom's dad. Boy, she's a bitch and she's nuts.

• 58:16Speaker 06

  And now I'm the crazy new ex-girlfriend. I just learned about the 2022 arrest because I am a P I. and I was able to pull all these documents. And I was just going over it last night.

• 58:29Dax Shepard?

  And was he arrested just from the skipping bail on the previous thing or were there new charges?

• 58:34Speaker 06

  I just looked based on the case number from my case back in 2012, but there probably are more.

• 58:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I mean, he's probably had 12 more years of being a scoundrel.

• 58:45Speaker 01

  That's so long.

• 58:46Speaker 06

  Yeah. And then the fact that they just let him go again, have we learned nothing?

• 58:50Speaker 01

  God.

• 58:51Dax Shepard?

  Right. Wow, Brittany.

• 58:53Speaker 01

  That's really something.

• 58:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, mom, they caught us.

• 58:57Speaker 01

  Oh, that's chilling.

• 59:00Dax Shepard?

  You're right, though, Monica, if we want to attempt to be as generous as possible, how fucked up was his childhood that his mother has enlisted him in her criminal pursuit?

• 59:10Speaker 01

  I mean, what kind of chance do you have if your mom is bringing you in?

• 59:15Dax Shepard?

  Exactly.

• 59:16Speaker 06

  And I wonder how much of the other things, because obviously. Mostly most of what he told me was a lie, but I especially think about like his family because he would talk about he's so close with his family and his grandparents and his aunt and tell me all of these stories like is that still happening?

• 59:30Speaker 01

  No.

• 59:31Speaker 06

  While this is happening?

• 59:32Speaker 01

  I think they're not real.

• 59:33Speaker 06

  All just made up in his head. Oh, who knows?

• 59:36Dax Shepard?

  I think that's the most gruesome part of these experiences is like trying to parse out what was real and what wasn't real. And then ultimately you're trying to answer the question, did he actually like me or love me? Somehow you're trying to hold on to building a case for that. So you need him to have been truthful about some portion of it. So that the other thing, you're just forced into that position.

• 59:59Speaker 06

  And it really fucked with my head for a long time to already have that low self-worth. And then to think that I found someone who loves me for me. And then it's like, oh no, I was just a target.

• 1:00:11Dax Shepard?

  It changes your worldview a bit, right? And it scares you about your own ability to protect yourself. It makes you feel more vulnerable in the world.

• 1:00:18Speaker 01

  It also confirms the wrong view you have of yourself. Like, oh yeah, this thing I thought I was unlovable. I guess I am because this was the proof. It's cruel.

• 1:00:30Speaker 06

  Yeah, it took until 2020 for me to, I think, fully snap out of what happened. There was a marriage, a divorce and to be like, okay, no, I am worthy. I'm a badass.

• 1:00:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, you are. We already know that.

• 1:00:42Dax Shepard?

  I'm the lead character, motherfuckers.

• 1:00:44Speaker 06

  Exactly. So here we are.

• 1:00:46Dax Shepard?

  Oh, good. I do think this kind of experience does ruin a lot of people. So I'm happy for you.

• 1:00:53Speaker 01

  You're tough.

• 1:00:53Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 1:00:54Dax Shepard?

  Well, Brittany, this has been a delight and what a series of twists and turns.

• 1:00:58Speaker 01

  Thanks for sharing.

• 1:01:00Dax Shepard?

  And now I have somebody if I need to investigate anyone in the Pacific Northwest.

• 1:01:04Speaker 06

  Absolutely. I got you.

• 1:01:07Dax Shepard?

  If you ever start investigating Dave Shepherd for something, just do me a solid and overlook it all. Don't take any cases against my family members up there.

• 1:01:15Speaker 06

  I promise I won't. Self-employed. I get to choose. That's a deal.

• 1:01:19Dax Shepard?

  All right. Well, wonderful meeting you, Brittany. Thanks for telling us that.

• 1:01:23Speaker 06

  You guys too. Thank you so much.

• 1:01:24Dax Shepard?

  All right. Take care.

• 1:01:27Dax Shepard?

  There's a couple of patterns here, right? We saw right away, there's something about a long-term breakup and then the rebound that seems to be a little fertile for something.

• 1:01:37Speaker 03

  Almost all of them had just gotten out of a long relationship.

• 1:01:39Dax Shepard?

  In high school, it's like they had their first kind of really innocent relationship. And then the next one, you're a little vulnerable for whatever reason.

• 1:01:48Speaker 01

  Very. Again, the sense of, am I worth loving? Probably not, because this other relationship didn't work. So you're just looking for confirmation.

• 1:01:58Dax Shepard?

  I only speak for myself. When you're young and you're in these long relationships and it follows that pattern that relationships follow, which is like the good chemicals have worn off, the excitement has worn off. And now it's just that here and now chemicals. And you're a little bored with the person. And I can imagine your natural response to that is like, I need someone more exciting. The problem was not that that's the pattern of relationships. It's that, oh, I need someone a little more exciting next time.

• 1:02:29Speaker 01

  Maybe, although with Phoenisha, he was just handsome. It's just sad that people.

• 1:02:35Dax Shepard?

  Pray on other people?

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that's a bummer. You know, I met someone at the Golden Globes of all places, a woman who said, hey, I want to thank you for that narcissist episode. It helped me realize that my mother is a narcissist and answered a lot of things. So I guess my only hope for this would be if you're in a situation that is mirroring any of these details, the quicker you pull the plug, the better.

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  And it's not a reflection of you.

• 1:03:02Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 1:03:03Speaker 01

  But it's really, it's really hard to see that in the moment.

• 1:03:06Dax Shepard?

  It is. Well, I love you and I'm really glad that no criminal has ever preyed on you, Monty.

• 1:03:12Speaker 01

  Not yet.

• 1:03:13Dax Shepard?

  Fingers crossed.

• 1:03:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:14Dax Shepard?

  Oh, is that a new year's resolution to not ask me to knock on wood? Because that was a knock on wood moment if there ever was one.

• 1:03:20Speaker 01

  You're right. It wasn't a resolution. In fact, I think I knocked on wood yesterday.

• 1:03:27Speaker 03

  You did. Yeah. There was a moment.

• 1:03:30Speaker 01

  But maybe I'm cutting back.

• 1:03:32Dax Shepard?

  All right. I love you.

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  Love you.

• 1:03:35Speaker 07

  Do you want to sing a tune or something? We have a theme song.

• 1:03:38Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay, great.

• 1:03:41Speaker 07

  We don't have a theme song for this new show, so here I go, go, go. We're gonna ask some random questions and with the help of our cherries, we'll get some suggestions. On the fly, Ryan Dish. On the fly, Ryan Dish. Enjoy.

• 1:04:03Dax Shepard?

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