Pod Insights Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard Armchair Anonymous: Crazy Neighbors II About this episode Dax and Monica talk to Armcherries! In today's episode, Armcherries tell us a story about a crazy neighbor.
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Transcript 13,174 words · 7 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Dax Shepard? Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Anonymous. I'm Dax Shepard and I'm joined by Lily Padman.
0:05 Speaker 01 Hello.
0:06 Dax Shepard? Today, we're going to entertain you with crazy stories of neighbors.
0:12 Speaker 01 We've all been there.
0:13 Dax Shepard? I mean, really, it seems pretty universal, doesn't it?
0:15 Speaker 01 It does.
0:15 Dax Shepard? I've had a handful of questionable neighbors.
0:18 Speaker 01 But these really, these are tippy top.
0:21 Dax Shepard? Yeah, these are more extreme than I have ever dealt with.
0:23 Speaker 01 Yeah.
0:26 Dax Shepard? Oh, that's one of these verbs you're talking about, but I knew I did it and it was, and I couldn't.
0:29 Speaker 01 I didn't.
0:30 Dax Shepard? I couldn't help it.
0:31 Speaker 01 I don't actually think that was one.
0:33 Dax Shepard? That was from all the colostermen I've been.
0:35 Speaker 01 Yeah, that wasn't what I'm talking about.
0:37 Dax Shepard? That wasn't one of the tick ones?
0:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
0:39 Dax Shepard? Okay, please enjoy Crazy Neighbors. We get support from Quince.
0:45 Speaker 01 I have to say, I am so ready for fall. I want sweaters. I've been craving a true crisp morning where I actually need a jacket. I can't wait.
0:54 Dax Shepard? I'm fully there. The second it dips below 70, I'm like, this is my season. Give me the layers, give me the boots, give me a reason to wear something other than a t-shirt. And honestly, that's why I love Quince, because fall is when your wardrobe actually has to show up. And everything at Quince is 50 to 80% less than similar brands. We're talking 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters, starting at $60.
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1:35 Dax Shepard? The 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters for me are it. When I look at Steve McQueen, this man owned a couple of sweaters he wore all the time and he looks iconic.
1:44 Speaker 01 It's a uniform.
1:45 Dax Shepard? Mm-hmm.
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2:39 Speaker 01 That's where your AG1 routine earns its spot. It's not fixing your sleep or your alarm time. It's giving your body what it needs so the dark mornings don't tank you before you even start. One scoop cold water every morning before anything else.
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3:06 Speaker 01 That's the part people miss. It's not a one day fix. It's what happens when you stay consistent.
3:10 Dax Shepard? It's an easy, everyday thing. I've added it to my morning routine and I'm going to tell you, I actually love the taste of it. It's like Pavlovian. I drink it and I know, mm, I'm going to get that little vitamin buzz.
3:20 Speaker 01 Well, that's also the thing. When you do it first thing in the morning, you already feel kind of self-esteem because you're like, I already did something good for myself.
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4:13 Speaker 01 Hi.
4:14 Dax Shepard? Wait, your name is in quotes. Does that mean it's a fake name?
4:18 Speaker 02 It does.
4:19 Dax Shepard? And is your fake name Kelsey?
4:21 Speaker 02 My fake name is Kelsey.
4:22 Speaker 01 Great. We're not even gonna ask you what your real name is.
4:26 Dax Shepard? I'm not gonna ask, but I do wanna know, is this a nod to the Kelsey brothers?
4:30 Speaker 02 Oh shit. No.
4:32 Dax Shepard? Okay, great. Just wanna see what we're dealing with. Why Kelsey? Do you have a friend that you love that's named Kelsey?
4:39 Speaker 02 No, I can't actually say much, cuz it'll give away. I just thought it was a good option.
4:43 Dax Shepard? Great. I'll stop hounding you about it. I just thought it could be maybe a cute thing. Kelsey, where are you?
4:49 Speaker 02 I am in Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada.
4:52 Dax Shepard? Oh, what's Thunder Bay?
4:55 Speaker 02 Thunder Bay is the same place that you guys had a collar in that had the gross shin, melty puddle.
5:03 Dax Shepard? In the restaurant?
5:04 Speaker 02 The restaurant.
5:05 Dax Shepard? Yeah, like kind of a seaside party towny vibe?
5:09 Speaker 02 Yeah, up on Lake Superior's.
5:10 Dax Shepard? Oh, you're on Lake Superior?
5:12 Speaker 02 Right on the northern part.
5:14 Dax Shepard? Wow, and let's just tell people, Lake Superior is the most beautiful of the Great Lakes. It's the biggest, the deepest, the coldest.
5:20 Speaker 02 Breezing.
5:21 Dax Shepard? Height of summer, what's the temp of that water?
5:24 Speaker 02 Oh, way too cold for me. The kids will go in cuz they'll go in anything, but way too cold. I couldn't even guess.
5:30 Dax Shepard? And it gets dicey on Superior, like the Edmunds Fitzgerald crash there. Well, you get some high seas, Monica.
5:36 Speaker 01 Oh my gosh.
5:36 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
5:37 Speaker 02 Yes.
5:38 Dax Shepard? Okay, so you have a crazy neighbor story?
5:41 Speaker 02 I have a very crazy neighbor story.
5:42 Dax Shepard? Wonderful. Yeah, yeah, we like a crazy neighbor story.
5:46 Speaker 02 I know, I was a little bit nervous to tell, but you know what? I'm just gonna put it out there and tell it. So I do have notes, just because it was over a few years.
5:55 Dax Shepard? Also, you're an armchair, which means you're smart and organized and a good storyteller, and you have your notes. It's very common.
6:00 Speaker 02 Yes, this all started during COVID. So during COVID, while I was very pregnant with my second son, we bought a house and immediately got warned about the woman next door. Within the first week, my husband and I were like looking out the window and we saw her. Lining up rocks. So our yard sort of goes like right against her driveway. So she was lining up rocks along the length of our yard and then started digging up our yard as though she was going to like expand her driveway onto our yard.
6:34 Dax Shepard? Okay, interesting. How old is our neighbor friend?
6:38 Speaker 02 I would put her in her sixties-ish.
6:42 Dax Shepard? Sure, sure.
6:43 Speaker 02 So my husband and I are watching this and he's like, you know what? I'm gonna go out and talk to her. And I'm like, okay, let's just tread lightly. I'm a little bit more of the cool calm collected. He can have a shorter fuse when provoked.
6:58 Dax Shepard? Dax Shepard type?
6:59 Speaker 02 A little bit, yeah. So we go outside and she immediately screams at us. Stay back, it's COVID, stay back, it's COVID. And like puts her shirt up over her face to sort of protect her, I guess, from us. So my husband asks what she's doing. She tells us that basically our yard is her property. And there's a little heated exchange where she ends with telling him to go fuck himself.
7:25 Speaker 01 Oh, wow.
7:26 Speaker 02 He returned the sentiment and he walked back inside. I'm like very pregnant, waddling behind him.
7:33 Dax Shepard? Can I ask, is this a vacation property or your primary residence?
7:37 Speaker 02 No, this is like our primary residence.
7:39 Dax Shepard? So you're now living next to an enemy?
7:41 Speaker 02 So we decided, let's be adults about this. We'll get a survey to like properly determine the property line and we will build a fence. Because as we know, fences make good neighbors.
7:52 Dax Shepard? Yes, yes.
7:53 Speaker 02 The survey company came, they marked out the line. Our property actually ended like a foot or two into her driveway. She wasn't home at the time, so they left a card in her mailbox. We just thought, you know, okay, great. It's COVID, so we had to wait a bit for lumber. Because as you guys know, like, things were just crazy during that time. No one could get supplies. And I guess she took it upon herself to call the survey company, threaten them to the point where the survey company actually called me. And they said, look, we know your husband's working out of town. We've actually gone on lockdown here because she's making threats. To come down here. So we're just suggesting you sort of lock your doors and do the same.
8:32 Speaker 01 Oh my god.
8:33 Dax Shepard? They're on lockdown at the surveying place. Wow. Okay.
8:35 Speaker 02 Yeah. And so I was home with my three year old son at the time. So that was kind of sketchy, just not really knowing what was going on. So between when we had the survey and when we actually built the fence, there were multiple police calls. We actually had her on video saying, just wait until your kid comes over here again. But she never finished the threat. So the police couldn't do anything about it.
9:00 Speaker 01 Oh my god.
9:02 Speaker 02 Yeah. And he was three at the time. Like he wasn't ever going over there. They would take pictures of my son outside playing. To this day, he turns nine next week and he's still afraid of her.
9:13 Dax Shepard? Well, really quick, does she have a husband in the mix or a partner?
9:16 Speaker 02 Yes. He never really gets into the dust ups. It's mostly her, but he is around. Every time the police showed up, of course, the whole neighborhood comes out to kind of see what's going on, especially during COVID. We were all looking for cheaper free entertainment.
9:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
9:31 Dax Shepard? Yeah. You were providing it.
9:33 Speaker 02 Yeah. She would be out there screaming to everyone about what terrible parents we were because we let our kid roam around. She threatened to call children's aid on us. She called 911 so many times.
9:47 Speaker 01 Oh my god. This is like that doc.
9:50 Speaker 02 It is. We ended up being on like a first name basis with the police. My little guy, he thought police were just a normal part of life, that they were at everyone's house all the time.
10:00 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
10:01 Speaker 02 She called by law to falsely report our dog running at large. So things became really uncomfortable. We had such bad anxiety. We didn't want to go outside. You never knew what you were gonna get with her. She would stare at us. So we'll jump forward to, this is now like August 2020, and we finally have the materials to build the fence. My husband's very handy. So him and some buddies, some family all came over to build this fence. They would not move their vehicles so that we could get in there. They just stood there, hands on their hips, staring at us. She called 911. Reporting that my husband was standing in the yard with weapons, which was like a drill and a hammer because we were building a fence.
10:46 Dax Shepard? Do you think 911's ever blocked a caller?
10:48 Speaker 01 I know.
10:49 Dax Shepard? If I worked there, I'd just be like, you know what? I'm not taking this woman's calls anymore. It's blocked.
10:53 Speaker 02 That's what we kept saying, like, what a waste of resources to send all these police all the time.
10:59 Speaker 01 Oh.
11:00 Speaker 02 So the police ended up actually just sort of staying at our house the whole day to keep the peace. Because every time they left, she would call back or we would have to call because she ran into the backyard at one point and was throwing tree branches over the fence.
11:13 Speaker 01 Oh, my God.
11:14 Dax Shepard? She needs a job.
11:15 Speaker 01 She needs a mental facility.
11:18 Speaker 02 She scribbled on a cardboard sign for sale and hung that up in her tree as we were building the fence. She's very clearly not well.
11:27 Speaker 01 Yeah, unhinged.
11:28 Speaker 02 So this is where things started to get scary. So around that same time, our dog, out of nowhere, got really, really sick. Vomiting nonstop, lost a ton of weight. We had to take him to the emergency vet and they said that his blood work showed that there were toxins. But unless we knew what toxin we were looking for, they couldn't actually confirm. So the fence got built with police on standby.
11:54 Dax Shepard? Did you reclaim all that? Did you go into her driveway or did you back off of the driveway?
11:59 Speaker 02 No, we were nice about it. We just went where the yard line was at the time. We didn't really want to poke too much. So after my second son was born, I don't know if it was because it was COVID and she had nothing better to do, maybe. But as she backed out, her driveway would just blare on her horn the full minute it took her to back out.
12:21 Dax Shepard? Oh, my God.
12:22 Speaker 02 My room's on that side of the house. The baby's room was on that side of the house. It would be like early, early morning, middle of day. Every time she would just blare the horn.
12:32 Dax Shepard? Can I, I'm gonna pause for one second. I just want to check in with Monica because Monica and I debate about this all the time. And she's right. Physical violence should never happen. Do you not think this woman just needs to get her ass kicked by another woman?
12:43 Speaker 01 No, I don't.
12:44 Dax Shepard? Someone needs to go, you can't act this way. I'm not gonna allow it.
12:47 Speaker 01 I mean, I think verbally, yes, that won't work.
12:50 Dax Shepard? But if that went once, that's not gonna deter her.
12:52 Speaker 01 I just don't know that even physical violence would deter someone like that. Like, I just think she needs help. She needs to be put in a hospital.
12:58 Dax Shepard? Okay.
12:59 Speaker 01 Okay.
12:59 Dax Shepard? Bye, bye. Go to us.
13:00 Speaker 01 Yeah, bye.
13:01 Dax Shepard? I could see in the eighties, this going on for three weeks in my neighborhood, but I feel like some mom would have punched her and then that might have been the end of it.
13:08 Speaker 01 Right. Yeah, I don't condone.
13:10 Dax Shepard? Okay. All right. We're not there yet. Okay. Just checking in. Just wondered if this rose to the
13:14 Speaker 01 Okay. If she hurts the kid, I'll say yes.
13:16 Dax Shepard? Okay, okay.
13:16 Speaker 02 I know, not the very like friendly Canadian stereotype that we typically have up here. So she would like stand in her driveway, watching me put my son on the school bus. She actually called the school bus company, trying to get the stop moved because she didn't want it stopping in front of her house. She took so many pictures of us, so many videos of my son.
13:39 Dax Shepard? What's the threshold for harassment? Like, can you sue somebody? This feels like harassment.
13:44 Speaker 02 We'll get to that.
13:45 Dax Shepard? Okay, okay, okay.
13:46 Speaker 02 Yeah, she made all kinds of fake police calls. I think at one point she made a nine one one call saying my husband was like revving his sled, his snow machine in the middle of the night, or like racing it down the street, something ridiculous. At one point, she told the police, referring to my husband, she said, I'm not gonna let some snot-nosed kid tell me to go fuck myself, which we've always thought is hilarious because my husband is a tradesman, he's in his thirties, he has a full beard, he's very much not a snot-nosed little kid. So at that point, I think we had about 20 police reports from all of the false complaints and harassment. But the thing that finally led to her having criminal charges was when she decided to email my husband's employer.
14:30 Speaker 02 My husband drives a work vehicle. His company and everything is blasted all over the side. It's not hard to see who he works for. Police were here for something. I can't remember, but they had said to us, they had just talked to her and she was thinking about emailing my husband's boss. So the next day, she sent his company an email. She basically laid out that my husband was dangerous, creepy, intimidating. She actually said, I don't think I could take him if something like physical was to happen, which is crazy. My husband's the nicest guy. He would never hurt a fly.
15:04 Dax Shepard? But also, yeah, you can't take him.
15:06 Speaker 01 Right.
15:07 Dax Shepard? That's also true. Yeah.
15:08 Speaker 01 Yeah.
15:09 Dax Shepard? You probably can't take a lot of thirty-year-old dudes.
15:11 Speaker 01 Right.
15:13 Speaker 02 She also attached a bunch of pictures of his work vehicle just parked in the street, our house, him walking down the street. Thankfully, she was dumb enough to put it in writing because that was the final straw. That's what led to her being charged with two counts of criminal harassment.
15:31 Dax Shepard? Oh, God.
15:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
15:33 Speaker 02 She dragged the court proceedings out for close to two years. We almost went to trial and she finally pled guilty like days before we were supposed to go to trial.
15:45 Dax Shepard? And during the two years where she was about to be on trial, did her antics stop?
15:50 Speaker 02 No, not as intense, but more of an intimidating. Like every time we were outside, she would make sure she was outside. The pictures never stopped. She did accuse my husband of being a voyeur one time while we were waiting. She called 911 to say he was peeping in her windows. Oh.
16:07 Dax Shepard? You know, I bet when you look at her phone, the nine and the one and the one are like worn out, like on a security pad.
16:14 Dax Shepard? So when she pled guilty, what did they say? If you do it again, you could end up in jail. Like, I can't imagine they sent her to jail for this.
16:21 Speaker 02 No, she didn't go to jail. She had, I think it's called a suspended sentence. So basically, we got like a restraining order. So she couldn't communicate with us or our kids, couldn't come onto our property. That was the part that bothered me the most was the kids. Like, if you want to harass me and my husband, we're adults.
16:38 Dax Shepard? Well, you're snuck nose kids, but yes, I get your point. How many years ago was that, that the conviction happened?
16:44 Speaker 02 2022.
16:46 Dax Shepard? And have you had four years of peace?
16:48 Speaker 02 I don't know if I would call it peace, but things have certainly calmed down since she was convicted. She still lives next door.
16:55 Dax Shepard? Oh, wow.
16:56 Speaker 01 Oh, my God.
16:58 Speaker 02 You know, you never know.
16:59 Dax Shepard? I mean, the only compassion I can find in this is she's very unhappy.
17:05 Speaker 01 Well, we don't know if she's unhappy.
17:07 Dax Shepard? She is.
17:07 Speaker 01 Well, she's unwell, but I think sometimes unwell people might not be unhappy.
17:14 Dax Shepard? I think she's so grouchy and easily annoyed and anything that's happening, she feels like it's a personal assault and her fucking fighter flight's probably up and her. Cortisol's are dumping. I mean, I bet she's suffering because of this, this way she's chosen.
17:28 Speaker 01 Some people get high on that.
17:29 Speaker 02 Well, we've heard various stories from the other neighbors, streets over saying, oh yeah, 25 years, we've known that woman. She's been like that her whole life. So that's my crazy neighbor story.
17:40 Dax Shepard? Wow.
17:40 Speaker 01 That's a rough one.
17:41 Dax Shepard? That is rough. Luckily, I want to say, I know what it's like to live in that type of area and your neighbors are more relevant in that type of neighborhood. Like, we have that here. We have someone we can't stand. We don't care. We don't see them.
17:54 Speaker 01 Yeah.
17:54 Dax Shepard? Nothing's gonna happen. Everyone's in their house in LA. It's fine. But if we lived in a rural area and we shared a yard, it'd be a different scenario.
18:02 Speaker 01 Yeah.
18:03 Speaker 02 Especially our summers are so short here. We want to get outside and be outside as much as we can. But I will say, after so many years of anxiety, something cool has finally come of this experience. So I'm gonna count it as a win.
18:17 Dax Shepard? Well, I'm glad that there was some silver lining to it. Well, Kelsey, lovely meeting you. Yeah, thanks for telling us that.
18:24 Speaker 02 Thank you so much. Can I just say a very quick shout out just to everyone who has heard this story for years? All my friends, all my coworkers, and of course, my husband, who has gone through all of this with me. We're a great team. And hopefully, we don't have any more challenges like this down the road.
18:41 Speaker 01 We're sending you all the good vibes.
18:43 Dax Shepard? All right. Well, lovely meeting you. Enjoy this little glimpse of summer coming your way.
18:46 Speaker 02 Thank you so much, guys. Take care.
18:48 Dax Shepard? Take care.
18:57 Dax Shepard? This episode is supported by Helix.
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19:11 Dax Shepard? That's the dream. You just described one of my ideal fall nights.
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19:39 Dax Shepard? Hmm.
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20:09 Dax Shepard? Go to helixsleep.com/armchair for 20% off sitewide. That's helixsleep.com/armchair for 20% off sitewide. Helixsleep.com/armchair. We get support from Superhuman. I'm someone who wants to do big, meaningful work, but the small stuff eats up my day before I even get to it. The endless emails, docs, scheduling, follow-ups that pile up. By the time all that's cleared, there's no energy left for the ambitious stuff. Most AI tools promise to fix that, but they require opening a new tab, re-explaining everything from scratch every single time. A week later, it's just another thing collecting dust in the browser. Superhuman, from the makers of Grammarly, is different.
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22:49 Dax Shepard? We get support from Skims. So Monica just informed me that she's a girl's girl, and I nodded like I knew exactly what that meant.
22:58 Speaker 01 Yeah, but the girls who get it, they get it.
23:00 Dax Shepard? Okay, but for those of us who are clearly not girls, walk me through it.
23:04 Speaker 01 Well, you know how much I love my Skims fleece joggers? Because the plush fleece is so soft, it's cozy, it's really comfortable without feeling too heavy. Well, I went to friend them, and she would not stop talking about how comfy they were. She almost didn't give them back to me, which was upsetting, but I'm a girl's girl, so I let her have it.
23:21 Dax Shepard? Okay, great, great, great.
23:22 Speaker 01 So the sleep sets are awesome because they are very soft and comfortable, but they're cute. If I'm in my sleep set, I feel fine about going down the street to pick up my food. I'm still looking cute, but I'm comfy and I'm cozy.
23:35 Dax Shepard? Roger.
23:37 Speaker 01 A really fun thing to do is if you're going on vacation with your girlfriends, to get matching Skims pajamas. I've done this with Callie, and it is so fun. First of all, the pics are so cute, but also it's just fun and friendship.
23:49 Dax Shepard? So a girl's girl is looking out for your friends with better loungewear. I get it. Am I one of your girls now?
23:55 Speaker 01 You are. You and the other girlies can shop my favorite loungewear and pajamas at skims.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select Podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the drop-down menu that follows.
24:16 Speaker 01 Hi.
24:16 Dax Shepard? Hello.
24:17 Speaker 04 Hi, how are you?
24:20 Dax Shepard? So good. What fake name should we go with?
24:22 Speaker 04 Well, I was hoping you could maybe assign one to me.
24:25 Dax Shepard? Okay, I'm going with Claire.
24:29 Speaker 01 Oh, I like that.
24:31 Dax Shepard? Claire's a very friendly name, isn't it? I've known a few Clairs over the years. They're all very friendly.
24:36 Speaker 01 I've never met a bad Claire.
24:38 Dax Shepard? It's hard to find a bad Claire.
24:39 Speaker 01 Or a bad e-Clare.
24:40 Dax Shepard? That's easier. I've had some baddie Clairs. Claire, where are you?
24:44 Speaker 04 I am currently in Maine.
24:47 Speaker 01 Ooh, I wanna go.
24:49 Dax Shepard? Maine's having a real moment, right? A lot of people moving to Maine?
24:52 Speaker 04 Yeah, especially after the pandemic. A lot of folks moved up here, including our families.
24:56 Dax Shepard? Yeah, I have a good friend who moved there, lived there for the last five years, just sold his house. And it had tripled in value in the five years he owned it. That doesn't happen.
25:05 Speaker 01 I really wanna go there. It looks so idyllic.
25:08 Speaker 04 It's pretty.
25:09 Dax Shepard? Where did you come from?
25:10 Speaker 04 So we moved here from the Seattle area.
25:12 Dax Shepard? Oh, okay, so all the way across.
25:14 Speaker 04 Yeah, we like the corners.
25:16 Dax Shepard? Yeah, you like the corners. You could have also agreed to only live in towns named Portland and still been in the Pacific Northwest.
25:22 Speaker 04 That's true.
25:23 Dax Shepard? Okay, so your crazy neighbor story, was it in the Seattle area?
25:26 Speaker 04 Yes.
25:27 Dax Shepard? Walk us through it. Let us hear.
25:28 Speaker 04 This took place in early September of 2018. At the time, we were living in a very idyllic suburban area. Outside of Seattle, there are some very family-friendly towns. They have a name and they have their own private park. Kids ride their bikes still. It feels very like 1950s. They're just running into each other's houses and stuff like that. And so that's where we were. And we had two young kids at the time and tons of families where we lived. The kids were like early elementary school. And my daughter was good friends with two other daughters in the neighborhood. They all hung out together and stuff, and our families began to hang out.
26:04 Dax Shepard? What ages?
26:05 Speaker 04 The youngest being like five and the oldest being eight. I'll give you a couple of names, a couple of the players. So Karen and Heather, Karen's kids and Heather's kids, all of our daughters, they all hung out together. And so Karen and Heather and our family, we would get together for trick or... And Easter eggs and community events and all of those kinds of things. We even went camping together in that summer before. So we knew each other well, but always with tons of kids and husbands and people always around. There was another family, Jennifer's family. She had two boys, but she was like our kids soccer coach. So we all knew each other and again, kids all in the same age, going to the same school, same bus stop. And in early September, one of the daughters had a birthday party.
26:49 Speaker 04 Heather and Karen and I, we were hanging out after the birthday party. And we're like, we should do a mom's night out. Like, school is back in session, long summer, let's have a good time.
26:58 Speaker 01 Yeah.
26:58 Speaker 04 We decide that we're gonna do it the following weekend. And in between time, there was a soccer practice. So I was like, hey, why don't we invite Jennifer too? Cause she's cool, friendly, super funny.
27:08 Dax Shepard? And she's the mother of the boys.
27:09 Speaker 04 She's the mother of the boys. And the other two moms are like, yeah, that sounds great. We decide to go to a country western bar with a mechanical bull.
27:16 Speaker 01 Oh.
27:17 Dax Shepard? The moms are going hard.
27:18 Speaker 04 Keep in mind, at this point, I'm in my early 40s. So is another mom, everybody else, late 30s. We are not mechanical bull riding appropriate age.
27:27 Dax Shepard? Sure, sure, sure.
27:29 Speaker 04 But it's hilarious and why not?
27:31 Dax Shepard? Yes, and Chippendales isn't in fashion anymore.
27:34 Speaker 04 That's right, and that wasn't really our style anyway. We're like, let's just go and make fun of ourselves and have a couple of beers. But in the lead up, we start a group text and Karen sends a text of Deborah Winger from Urban Cowboy.
27:48 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah, know it well, butt and sissy.
27:50 Speaker 04 In that movie, Sissy is like erotically riding the bull.
27:55 Dax Shepard? She's in a white tank top, braless. Yeah, it's a lot.
27:59 Speaker 04 It's a lot, so she sends a gif, jif, whatever you call it, of Deborah Winger riding the bull. Now again, this is not really our vibe for the rest of us, so we're like, that's a choice.
28:10 Speaker 01 But could be funny.
28:11 Speaker 04 Yeah, we were like, okay, let's go the funny route. So we were like, all right, let's embrace our Deborah Wingers, you know, we're gonna have a good time. So I'm the designated driver, the rest of us, we all meet up. I take everybody out. Heather is particularly happy, she just got a new job, so she's like happy drunk. We're all just laughing, having a really good time. Karen is a little on the quiet. Quiet side, we decided to go do the mechanical bull.
28:34 Dax Shepard? Really quick, had she arrived in an overtly sexy outfit or just normal?
28:38 Speaker 04 Just normal.
28:39 Speaker 01 Okay, alright.
28:39 Speaker 04 We were all just kinda normal, trying to get our country on, but that wasn't really our situation either. So I go up first, I comically fall off the mechanical bull kind of instantly. We're laughing really hard, we're all having a good time. Jennifer goes up, Heather goes up, we all instantly fall off. Karen goes up and she's been very quiet, very kinda serious this whole time. And she does kind of seductively ride the bull.
29:04 Speaker 01 Wow.
29:06 Speaker 04 A little longer than the rest of us, she's kinda whipping her hair back and forth.
29:10 Dax Shepard? Living out of fantasy.
29:11 Speaker 04 We're like, okay, but we're cheering for her, we're like, that wasn't what bus stop moms we were expecting. But we're like, go Deborah, you know? She gets off and she kinda struts over to us, she's very straight faced, we're laughing, we're just enjoying ourselves and making fun of the whole situation. And she's like, yes, my husband is a very happy man.
29:32 Speaker 01 Oh, alright.
29:34 Dax Shepard? Oh wow.
29:34 Speaker 01 Thanks for telling us.
29:36 Dax Shepard? Okay.
29:36 Speaker 04 And she kinda keeps walking back to the table.
29:39 Speaker 01 Oh, she like says it in passing?
29:40 Dax Shepard? Yeah, she throws it away.
29:42 Speaker 04 So she goes back to the table, you know, we carry on, we're having a good time, we're line dancing. Couple hours in, and again, Karen's pretty quiet. I come back to the table from line dancing and it's just Jennifer and Karen at the table. And Jennifer's kinda teary eyed.
29:59 Speaker 01 Uh oh, boy.
30:00 Speaker 04 And Karen is very flat faced, like flat affect. And Jennifer's immediately like, I'm going to the bathroom. So she goes to the bathroom and Karen follows her.
30:11 Speaker 01 Oh.
30:11 Speaker 04 I have no idea what's going on, I'm fat, dumb and happy.
30:14 Dax Shepard? You're not even drinking, right?
30:15 Speaker 04 Yeah, so I'm like, and we're all grown ass women.
30:19 Speaker 01 Yeah, you're like, what the hell?
30:20 Speaker 04 You know what I mean? But Heather immediately is alarmed and she said, something's wrong. I think Karen is attacking Jennifer.
30:29 Speaker 01 What?
30:30 Dax Shepard? Whoa.
30:31 Speaker 04 And I'm like, what are you even talking about? Keep in mind, we had just gone camping together the month prior, like this was so out of left field. And so Heather's like, you need to go check on them in the bathroom.
30:40 Dax Shepard? Okay, hold on one second.
30:42 Speaker 01 Have a guess?
30:42 Dax Shepard? A little bit.
30:43 Speaker 01 I have a guess too.
30:44 Dax Shepard? Minimally, she thinks this woman's fucking her husband, right?
30:48 Speaker 01 That's my guess.
30:49 Dax Shepard? Karen thinks.
30:49 Speaker 01 That Jennifer is fucking her husband.
30:51 Dax Shepard? Jennifer is fucking her husband.
30:52 Speaker 01 That's my guess as well.
30:53 Dax Shepard? Look, I'm sexier than you. My husband's very happy. Don't even think about it.
30:57 Speaker 01 Yeah, don't you fucking think about it.
30:59 Dax Shepard? Yeah, you piece of shit. I'm gonna assault you in the bathroom. Because actually, I'm very insecure. Okay, let's resume.
31:03 Speaker 01 Okay, but don't tell us if we're right. Let's just hear it.
31:05 Speaker 04 I go in. Long story short, they wind up leaving. Karen walks out of the bathroom. Jennifer looks at me and is like, she is a crazy fucking bitch.
31:14 Speaker 01 Oh my god.
31:15 Speaker 04 And this is not how Jennifer talks. And I'm like, what just happened? She's like, I don't want to cause any more drama. She's very territorial with me. She's saying really nasty things about me. She basically just verbally attacked me for the last 10 minutes.
31:30 Dax Shepard? Whoa.
31:30 Speaker 04 And Jennifer's like, I'm catching an Uber and I'm leaving. So Jennifer leaves. I come back to the table and, mind you, I have a lot of experience like de-escalating heated situations, both personally and professionally. And so that part of my brain kind of clicks in. And I'm like, I'm gonna stay cool and calm and collected. I'm gonna leave with some curiosity. I'm really clear about what's mine and what's not mine. And clearly, whatever's happening with Karen is not mine. So I come back to the table and I'm like, what's going on? And she's like, you know what's going on. She starts talking in this like really cryptic kind of hostile way towards me. And she says, you are such a bully. And you know what? So is your daughter.
32:12 Speaker 01 Oh no.
32:13 Dax Shepard? Now it's gonna be hard to de-escalate. You've brought my child into it?
32:17 Speaker 01 Oh.
32:18 Speaker 04 My daughter, she barely turned eight at this point. Everybody that I talk to about her is just like, she's the sweetest, kindest kid. So I kind of instantly know, this has nothing to do with me. This has nothing to do with my kid. And if there is something of mine, or something of my daughter's, some transgression, I'm happy to own it. We get talking and I'm like, tell me more. She's kind of circling around, you know? The only specific thing I can get from her is one time, my daughter and Heather's daughter whispered in each other's ear and didn't have...
32:52 Speaker 04 Tell Karen's daughter what they whispered.
32:54 Dax Shepard? So a bully. She's a bully.
32:56 Speaker 01 A big bad bully.
32:57 Dax Shepard? Yeah, big bully.
32:57 Speaker 04 And so I was like, I see that as a parenting difference. I'm OK with children whispering in each other's ears. She's not de-escalating. In fact, she starts then verbally attacking my husband. So I'm all done with this conversation. I'm starting to get triggered. This has gone on too long. But I'm still the designated driver. We're a half hour away. I'm still willing to take you in my car. And keep in mind, Heather is sitting there the whole time, but she's no longer happy drunk. She is very sad drunk, holding on to her beer, like head down.
33:26 Dax Shepard? This was supposed to be a very fun mom's night out. And it did not turn out. I know, it's really turn. Sounds more like a trip to Vegas.
33:32 Speaker 04 That's right. I had been texting my husband this whole time because he's like, how's it going? And I'm like, holy shit.
33:39 Speaker 04 Going sideways. So I'm like, going once, going twice. OK, you guys are staying. I'm leaving. I leave, I call my husband. I'm talking to him on the phone, trying to tell him all the crazy things that had happened. I'm just a minute or so out and Heather calls. And I'm like, fuck you. I'm not answering your phone call. I don't want any like, come on back. We were having fun. You know, I don't want any of that. And I'm like, you chose to stay. So I'm out. I keep talking to my husband. She calls a second time. I ignore her call a second time. But I tell my husband, hey, Heather just called me twice. If she calls a third time, I'm answering. She calls a third time. I pick up the phone and she says she punched me.
34:21 Dax Shepard? Oh my God, she punched her?
34:23 Speaker 01 Oh my God.
34:24 Speaker 04 Where this bar was, it's kind of like four wide lanes of highway, like car dealerships around, you know, like very industrial kind of place. She had crossed the street and was just high tailing it in a direction on the street. She's like, can you come back and pick me up? So I do. I come back, I pick her up and she's like covered in beer. Apparently what happened is I left the bar. Heather, who's been kind of standing by her side this whole time, turns to Karen and says, it's just the two of us now. What are we gonna do? And Karen punches Heather in the face.
35:01 Speaker 01 Oh my god.
35:02 Speaker 04 Heather drops to the ground. Karen punches her a second time on the ground.
35:08 Dax Shepard? Let's remember, within an hour of bully allegations, which is spectacular.
35:13 Speaker 04 I think she was just like raging with impotence. I could tell she wanted to get a rise out of me, and I wasn't giving her that. And I think she just kind of snapped. But somebody helps Heather up. Heather walks out of the bar. Karen follows her screaming at her. Heather crosses the four lanes of traffic, and that's when I pick her up. Turns out, in the car, Heather opens up to me and begins telling me that Karen had had a baby a year or so prior. She was postpartum, going through something. Had kind of sworn Heather to secrecy, was really worried and paranoid, but had been doing all this emotionally manipulative stuff that is more prevalent in maybe some emotionally abusive relationships.
35:57 Speaker 04 She had also been verbally attacking Heather's daughter and like really seemed to be targeting a lot of hostility towards not just my daughter, but hers. So there was like a longstanding pattern that I had no idea about. And Heather was actually reluctant to come out with us that night, but because I didn't know anything, I was just like, let's have mom's night. And anyway, that night Karen reached out to Heather. Heather sent her a text that said, "You fuck off and die, don't ever talk to me again." And Karen kept texting. Heather filed a police report. A restraining order was issued. I was able to fact check myself because we have a lot of court documents documenting the whole night.
36:39 Speaker 01 Oh boy.
36:39 Speaker 04 And when the police officer came to take the report, he was like, oh my gosh, bus moms, soccer moms.
36:48 Dax Shepard? Fistfight. By the way, in their defense, there's a lot of fistfights at that bar in Urban Cowboy. So she like really was living out. I think even Sissy got in a fucking girl fight.
36:58 Speaker 04 She really was living out.
36:59 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah, she did it. She did it.
37:01 Speaker 04 It was really awkward because Jennifer was still our soccer coach. Karen and I were still on the soccer team. The season had just started. Her and her husband pretended like nothing had happened.
37:11 Speaker 01 Oh, boy.
37:12 Speaker 04 I had to send some strongly worded texts to everybody saying, oh, no, we're not pretending. Karen's accounting of the night, because again, a restraining order was issued. And her recounting of the night was that Heather had said, oh, I wonder who you're going to fuck tonight. And also that she had accused Karen of doing sex acts with Jennifer's husband.
37:38 Speaker 01 Okay, okay. She's mixing it all.
37:42 Speaker 04 So it was a very like dissociated from reality, but the daughters still hung out together. So we had to tell our kids, you can't hang out with her daughter anymore because she was so targeting our daughters.
37:55 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's tricky. Yeah.
37:57 Speaker 04 And they would like find each other in different friends' houses. And we wanted to protect her mental health status and her daughter's ability to shape friendships.
38:07 Dax Shepard? You're making me grateful. I haven't become friends with a lot of her kids' parents.
38:10 Speaker 01 Oh, I know, right?
38:11 Dax Shepard? I just mostly felt guilty about that, but now I'm feeling a little grateful.
38:14 Speaker 01 It gets very a-mash.
38:15 Dax Shepard? It can get so fucking messy.
38:17 Speaker 01 Yeah.
38:17 Speaker 04 There were two big takeaways from it. One was that the judge said he wouldn't have issued the restraining order had my friend not been so clear and said, do not contact me again. And the other thing was Jennifer and Heather and I have trauma bonded and we are still in touch. We talk to each other every week. But one of the things that we found when we were all debriefing about some of the weird stuff that had led up to it was that we kept using this word weird, like, oh, I had this conversation with her and it was kind of weird. And this situation happened and that was kind of weird. And I'm like, you know what? I have a new mantra. Weird equals warning. Not Weird Al Yankovic weird, like spooky delightful weird.
38:53 Dax Shepard? Not like Austin weird.
38:54 Speaker 01 Not the way you like to use it that much.
38:56 Dax Shepard? Yeah, that's right, right. Austin weird.
38:57 Speaker 04 That weird is fantastic, but those conversations where you're like trying to justify it and being like, huh.
39:03 Dax Shepard? Did we find out if she had fucked anyone's husband or her husband had fucked anyone? No?
39:07 Speaker 04 No, we don't think any husbands were fucked besides her own.
39:10 Dax Shepard? Okay.
39:11 Speaker 01 Who was very happy.
39:12 Dax Shepard? Yeah, she does it well.
39:13 Speaker 01 Clearly.
39:13 Dax Shepard? Okay, so there was no impropriety outside of her own imagination, probably.
39:18 Speaker 01 Well, it sounds like she was kinda like-
39:19 Dax Shepard? Yeah, she had some-
39:20 Speaker 01 Some psychosis.
39:21 Dax Shepard? Yeah. Well, did she have a period where she was infatuated with you?
39:25 Speaker 04 You know, she did send me kind of a cryptic text that was like, "I so admire you and the strength you have."
39:31 Speaker 01 You think she has borderline?
39:33 Dax Shepard? And then she thinks everyone's out to get her. To the point where you're willing to punch someone. I mean, you've really convinced yourself this person's trying to harm-
39:39 Speaker 01 We're really diagnosing people these days.
39:41 Dax Shepard? We are. You're not supposed to do that, but I'm going to keep doing it.
39:43 Speaker 01 Yeah.
39:43 Dax Shepard? I just want everyone to know, if you tell me not to, it's a waste of your breath. I'm gonna continue to do it.
39:49 Speaker 04 There were signs of that kind of borderline stuff because one of the things Heather said is one day she kind of followed them after the bus stopped and she had her four-year-old with her and she would yell at Heather about what a terrible mom she was and then the four-year-old started crying and then she would like switch and be like, "Oh honey, everything's okay, it's okay." And then she would go back to attacking. And the reason why everybody's names have been changed is because Jennifer and Heather and Karen still live there.
40:15 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's real tough.
40:17 Dax Shepard? Yeah, wow. They've got some years left.
40:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
40:19 Dax Shepard? You were like, "Fuck this, let's go to Maine."
40:21 Speaker 01 Yeah, smart. Really smart.
40:23 Dax Shepard? See how the people in Maine are.
40:24 Speaker 01 Honestly, god.
40:25 Dax Shepard? Well, Claire, what a spicy night out for the moms. Not what we were expecting, but it broke the monotony. Some drama's kind of fun. I'd be liking it all, I hate to admit.
40:35 Speaker 01 But not neighbors, because you can't remove yourself. That's the problem.
40:38 Speaker 04 It was awkward because she's a big part of the PTA and would be a part of family events. It just got really awkward. But yeah, it does make for a good story and Jennifer and I would celebrate by sending Heather little gifts like fruit punch and sockeye salmon and, you know, things to commemorate the budding of our intimate friendship, our strong friendship that we now have.
41:00 Speaker 01 Oh, it's fun. Well, thank you.
41:03 Dax Shepard? Well, yeah, thank you, Claire. That was great.
41:04 Speaker 04 Thank you so much. I appreciate it. If I could give just two shout-outs, just shout-out to Shalise. She is a day one listener who got me hooked into you all.
41:12 Dax Shepard? Thank you, Shalise.
41:13 Speaker 04 And then the other thing, I just want to say, Dex, I know a lot of people talk about how much your stories of sobriety mean to them and my dad was an alcoholic. He never- Went into recovery at all. In fact, he went the other way, died of cirrhosis, tragic. But your stories have been healing for me even after his death. And it shows me the amount of courage and strength and fortitude and support that my dad really didn't have. And it gives me a lot of compassion for him.
41:41 Dax Shepard? Oh, good. It's very hard.
41:43 Speaker 04 It's healing for me, so I appreciate it.
41:45 Dax Shepard? Oh, my pleasure. That's so nice to hear. Thank you. All right. Have a great summer up there.
41:50 Speaker 04 Bye. Bye.
42:06 Speaker 05 Hi.
42:07 Dax Shepard? How are you? What name are we using? Your name is in parentheses, which makes me think it's a code name.
42:13 Speaker 05 It is a code name. I'm going to go by Caroline today.
42:15 Speaker 04 Okay.
42:16 Dax Shepard? Caroline, where are you? First of all, your environment is so well put together.
42:20 Speaker 05 It is. This is my home office. I'm in Colorado.
42:23 Dax Shepard? Oh, okay, great. Your arms are ripped. Are you like a climber or something?
42:28 Speaker 05 Absolutely not. I just have two toddlers, so I carry around a lot of really bulky children all day.
42:33 Dax Shepard? They'll tone up those biceps. That's one of the favors they do for us.
42:36 Speaker 05 Exactly.
42:37 Dax Shepard? And are you from there or did you move there?
42:39 Speaker 05 Moved there, actually. So originally from Maui, which is where my story takes place.
42:43 Dax Shepard? Oh, wow.
42:44 Speaker 05 That's rare. My story takes place around 2016. And I was with my boyfriend for about a year at the time and we decided to move into our first place together. So big step, we found this gorgeous apartment, like especially if you're in your twenties, this was a score. It had like a spiral staircase. It was lofted. It was in a dream apartment. We moved in and it was great at first. It's a large house, to give context, that was subdivided into multiple units. So kind of a slumlord situation. We had our place, which was probably like an add-on to the house. It was above a carport. There was the main house that had maybe three people living in it.
43:24 Speaker 05 There was a unit around back and then there was a two-car garage that had been converted into two studio apartments. And that's kind of where the focus is. So we We had James on one side.
43:35 Dax Shepard? Uh huh.
43:36 Speaker 05 And then Jamie on another side. And they had actually started dating and became a couple.
43:41 Speaker 01 Oh, that's fun.
43:42 Dax Shepard? Dangerous and fun.
43:43 Speaker 05 Yes, exactly. James, we kind of knew of. He was kind of in my parents' circle, so we knew him. And Jamie was very quirky. She was, let's say, mid 50s. She had a giant tramp stamp and she always walked around in a sports bra and tiny shorts.
43:59 Dax Shepard? Yeah, good for her. Will you give a vibe check for Maui? Because I imagine a lot of people move there with kind of interesting lofty spirituality dreams or something. Is it a hodgepodge of people?
44:10 Speaker 05 You get a really good mix of people. You get hippie crunchy. You get, obviously, people that are native. There's a lot of different competing vibes there. It's kind of a strange place. A lot of vibes is just the best way I can say it. And Jamie had a vibe. She really did. I mean, she would smoke cigarettes outside all day. She didn't work. She told us she was undergoing cancer treatment, which I'm not sure if that is true or not, because I don't think she left the house much at all. So, anyway, we're enjoying our apartment. Everything's great. My now-husband, then-boyfriend, made great friends with Jamie. They get along great, super friendly, quirky, but not threatening. And then fast forward to maybe a month living in the apartment, and I received a package in my name. I opened it up.
44:55 Speaker 05 It's from Sephora, and it's like a laser device of some sort. Maybe like a laser skin device, I want to say. I did not order this. I looked it up on Sephora, and it was like an $800.
45:06 Speaker 01 Oh, shit.
45:07 Dax Shepard? Whoa, but it was your name, not just your address?
45:09 Speaker 05 It was in my name to my address, but I had not ordered this. And there's no way I could have afforded this. I was like 23, 24 at the time. Like, this was expensive. I kind of set it aside. I was like, I'm gonna have to investigate this. I'll ask around our neighbors. This is strange. A couple of days later, we're chit-chatting outside on our patio with our neighbors. And I go, hey, by chance, did you guys order a large package from Sephora? I didn't order this, and it's really strange because it was really expensive. And I just want to see if anybody else ordered this. I wanted to get in the right hands. I could just see the wheels turning in his head. He goes, well, how much was it for? And I was like, you know, it was about $800. He goes, I just had a fraudulent charge on my card from Sephora for about that amount.
45:52 Speaker 01 Oh, no.
45:53 Dax Shepard? Okay.
45:54 Speaker 05 And we were like, oh, my God. So we pulled the package out. We're all looking through it. We're looking for any sort of clues. We find a phone number on the receipt. Obviously, we're gonna call it. And it was Jamie from downstairs.
46:07 Dax Shepard? With the tram stamp and the cigarettes and the question, what cancer treatment?
46:11 Speaker 05 At this point, we kind of put together, so she uses his credit card, puts it under my name to avoid suspicion, but doesn't work. So she hoped to intercept the package. Kind of a wrench in her plan.
46:23 Dax Shepard? Like they'll call and they get confused at this multi-person dwelling.
46:27 Speaker 05 Yes, but what she didn't account for was my boyfriend's former roommate was our FedEx driver. So they were total buds and he would just walk into our house and just drop off packages.
46:37 Dax Shepard? That was the other thing I wanted to ask you about Maui. It's a small place. There's not a ton of people, right? So if you grew up there, even the fact that you said your parents knew some of the neighbors.
46:45 Speaker 05 Everyone knows each other. I didn't know her. Nobody really knew who she was. But like I said, it's like, okay, well, how threatening could she be? We know the other people that live here. We knew her boyfriend. Like, how bad could it be? Anyway, we find out she had ordered it. She hoped to intercept it. FedEx driver thwarted that plan. We're at this point, we're like, okay, well, we have to file a police report. So we call the police, the non-emergency line. They sent out an officer. He shows up and immediately is like, is this where Jamie lives?
47:11 Speaker 01 Oh, boy.
47:13 Dax Shepard? Perfect.
47:13 Speaker 05 Apparently she had had problems with the other tenants that used to live there. They had maybe accused her of possibly stealing a laptop, but I don't think anything ever came out of it. They had since left the apartment. So he basically takes our information. He says, you know, we'll file a report. Keep me in the loop with anything else that comes up, gives us his card. I want to say maybe a week or so later, I get a credit card statement. I had taken out a new credit card, but I never received the credit card, but I didn't really think anything of it. Again, I'm in my young twenties and not super organized at this point. I get the statement and there's thousands of dollars worth of charges racked up on this credit card that I never even received.
47:52 Speaker 01 Yeah.
47:53 Speaker 05 Call, get it cleared up. Basically, we're able to figure out, indeed, Jamie had taken it out of the mailbox once it arrived and gone on a shopping spree.
48:03 Dax Shepard? Oh, what kind of stuff did she buy? More beauty products?
48:06 Speaker 01 No, she bought more short shorts.
48:08 Speaker 05 It was all Macy's.
48:09 Dax Shepard? She went crazy at Macy's.
48:11 Speaker 01 Wow, good for Macy's.
48:12 Speaker 05 That canceled. And then at this point, I luckily had a credit monitoring service through my work as a benefit. I started just getting pings after pings. She took out probably eight credit cards in my name in the span of one week.
48:26 Speaker 01 Oh my.
48:27 Dax Shepard? Really quick, had you guys confronted her in face to face or no, you just called the police and let them deal with it?
48:33 Speaker 05 We never really confronted her at that point.
48:35 Dax Shepard? Okay.
48:36 Speaker 01 Okay.
48:36 Speaker 05 Down the road, we did a little bit, but I don't want to lose this apartment.
48:40 Dax Shepard? Yeah, okay, there we go.
48:41 Speaker 01 That's fair.
48:42 Speaker 05 Yeah. My dream apartment, like I don't want to stir up drama. So she takes out about eight credit cards in my name, is able to go shopping with a few of them. We're able to get those canceled. We continue to file police reports. They're telling us, okay, we're gathering evidence. We're probably going to arrest her at some point. She does end up getting arrested and then the next day is out. Watering plants outside, acting like nothing ever happened. Then it kind of gets to a point where we're like, okay, this is crazy. She's obviously just continuing to try and open credit cards in my name, fake emails in my name. She's deranged. So we talked to our landlord. He starts taking steps to get her removed from the property. But as I discussed earlier, she was dating James who lived in the other unit.
49:28 Speaker 05 So even after she was evicted, we were catching her sneaking onto property, going through our mailbox.
49:36 Dax Shepard? Did your husband ever pull James aside and go like, bro, how do you like this girl? She's a fucking criminal.
49:42 Speaker 01 Thief.
49:42 Speaker 05 What is funny is then he started to get confrontational towards us. He through the window, tried to get confrontational with my boyfriend. I also had my dad over for dinner one night, which is funny, and he tried to fight my dad.
49:54 Dax Shepard? Oh, wow.
49:55 Speaker 01 Oh my God. He was the one though, that was also involved in Sephora.
49:59 Dax Shepard? No.
50:00 Speaker 01 Oh, there was a fraudulent charge.
50:02 Speaker 05 Not James, different tenant. She continues to sneak on property. Like I said, she actually keeps ordering packages in my name and I keep receiving them. She ordered that same laser two more times.
50:11 Speaker 01 Oh my God.
50:12 Dax Shepard? She should just quit smoking if she wants her skin to lighten up. That's what I'm most irked about, to be honest with this whole story.
50:19 Speaker 01 $3,000 on these things and never received them. But I hope you used it.
50:23 Dax Shepard? Isn't it crazy, though, the thing I'm most triggered by is like, girl, stop smoking. You don't buy products. Like, get your shit together.
50:30 Speaker 01 Sure.
50:30 Speaker 05 It's just getting more and more chaotic, it seems like. She's not gonna leave us alone. But we're just kind of trying to hope, like, okay, it'll smooth out. She's off property now. The landlord's involved. We had to switch out the mailbox for a locked mailbox. We're just kind of hoping, okay, things are surely gonna kind of start to taper down. Then, one day, I am walking into the grocery store. One big, main grocery store that everybody shops at on the island. I'm walking in, I kind of see something out of the corner of my eye. I don't fully process it. I walk into the store, and I just had that gut feeling of, what did I just see? So I walked back out, and on the glass door is a flyer.
51:11 Speaker 05 My boyfriend's picture is at the center of the flyer. There's a heading, "New pedophile to the area."
51:18 Speaker 01 No! Oh, my god.
51:22 Dax Shepard? Oh, my god.
51:23 Speaker 05 I did send in a picture of the flyer.
51:25 Dax Shepard? Oh, my gosh.
51:27 Speaker 05 If you didn't know what you were looking at, she tried to make it look official.
51:31 Dax Shepard? No, he looks pretty pedophily in that photo. He's got a mustache.
51:34 Speaker 05 He was working against him. He's got his mustache. There's also, what's really funny, it looks like he has a tattoo on his neck.
51:40 Dax Shepard? Yes, it does.
51:41 Speaker 05 That's a photo of his driver's license, and that's the watermark of the state of Hawaii going across his neck.
51:47 Speaker 01 Oh.
51:48 Speaker 05 So our theory is that she walked into our house at some point, found his wallet, pulled out his driver's license, and took a photo of it for this flyer. Because how else would she have that?
51:59 Speaker 01 She tried to make it very official. It says, "New local pedophile to Maui. Hawaii Criminal Justice Data Center, Department of the Attorney General." Like, it's...
52:09 Dax Shepard? A lot of words.
52:10 Speaker 01 Wow.
52:11 Speaker 05 My heart was in my stomach. Like, I could not believe that. It's got our address printed right across it. Pedophile and my address is not something that makes me feel safe. So, call my boyfriend. We go home. Immediately, he's like, okay, we gotta start telling neighbors, like, what's going on, like, to let us know if you see her, if you see anything suspicious. So he goes and knocks on our neighbor's door. She literally tells him, get off my porch. I know who you are.
52:38 Speaker 01 Yeah, see, this is now, oh no.
52:41 Speaker 05 She had distributed this flyer in everybody's mailbox in our entire neighborhood.
52:47 Dax Shepard? This is a real liable case here. This is what you can literally win a liable lawsuit over.
52:52 Speaker 05 I thought about it, but I'm like, this woman clearly has nothing to her name.
52:55 Dax Shepard? They steal your own shit back?
52:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
52:58 Speaker 05 Exactly. Our neighbor across the street had it posted in their laundry room. Like this poster had gotten around. And again, small island, people had seen this poster. It had been circulated for a while. We just didn't know about it.
53:10 Dax Shepard? Oh, boy.
53:11 Speaker 05 So we had to call the police again. They had to go door to door telling everybody, in fact, he is not a sexual predator. This is a fake poster. Please let us know if you saw this being distributed. He had to go door to door. It was completely
53:26 Speaker 01 Wow.
53:27 Speaker 05 Verifying. After that, we were like, okay, we throw in the towel. We're leaving.
53:31 Dax Shepard? But what did the police, they can't do anything about this?
53:34 Speaker 05 We couldn't prove that she had done it. They kept telling us she's gonna be going to jail. The police kept amping this up. Like when they arrested her, there was mail on her counter that wasn't hers. Like there was all of these things pointing towards her, but nothing ever happened to it. Last I heard, she was selling hummus at the farmer's market.
53:52 Speaker 01 Oh, be not by that hummus. Oh my God, do not support that local business.
53:58 Speaker 05 Nothing ever happened.
53:59 Speaker 01 Ew.
54:00 Speaker 05 After we moved out, I heard that she started harassing somebody else at a house nearby. So clearly this was her MO.
54:08 Dax Shepard? And did you guys bounce to Colorado?
54:10 Speaker 05 After that, we were pretty quickly like, okay, I think we need a break from the island.
54:14 Speaker 01 Wow.
54:15 Dax Shepard? People go crazy on an island.
54:17 Speaker 05 Maybe some methamphetamines too. We suspect.
54:19 Speaker 01 Wow.
54:20 Dax Shepard? Wow.
54:20 Speaker 01 Took a turn. Hated that.
54:22 Dax Shepard? Yeah, I don't like her and I weirdly admire her.
54:26 Speaker 01 No.
54:27 Dax Shepard? I mean, she's just making an absolute mess of everything and somehow she's trucking along.
54:31 Speaker 05 Nothing can get her down. I wish I almost had that level of delusion.
54:35 Dax Shepard? Yeah, like if I had those things on my shoulders, like the cops came, there was mail everywhere. I've got charges. It would ruin me. I couldn't just parade around and continue to put
54:43 Speaker 01 Drugs.
54:44 Dax Shepard? That's true.
54:44 Speaker 01 You did a lot of bad stuff when you were doing drugs.
54:46 Speaker 05 Yeah, I mean, she was shameless. We would walk by, she would say, good morning. She'd be watering.
54:50 Speaker 01 She forgot.
54:51 Speaker 05 She did not give a crap about anything. She didn't care.
54:54 Dax Shepard? This prompt is making us grateful for the neighbor we don't like.
54:58 Speaker 01 Very tame comparatively.
54:59 Speaker 05 Anything is better than that.
55:01 Speaker 01 That's awful.
55:02 Speaker 05 That was about the peak.
55:04 Dax Shepard? Well, it's so nice meeting you.
55:05 Speaker 05 Yeah. Same. Nice to meet you as well.
55:08 Dax Shepard? All right, take care. Bye.
55:11 Dax Shepard? Hello. We're gonna go with a fake name, I'm just been told?
55:15 Speaker 06 Yeah, yeah, I think I'll keep myself anonymous for this one.
55:18 Dax Shepard? Okay, and what fake name would you like?
55:21 Speaker 06 Let's go with Mike.
55:22 Dax Shepard? Mike, okay.
55:23 Speaker 06 Nice and generic.
55:24 Dax Shepard? Mike, where are you at?
55:25 Speaker 06 So I am located in the foothills of Northern California, about an hour outside of Lake Tahoe.
55:31 Dax Shepard? Oh, okay. Um, this drive Monica crazy. Is it the 90 that runs through there?
55:38 Speaker 06 Close, the 80.
55:39 Dax Shepard? Okay, and dirt biking's big in the area or no?
55:41 Speaker 06 Dirt biking's big in the area, a lot of off-roading, just a lot of outdoor adventure stuff. Yeah, we got a lot of rivers out here, skiing.
55:50 Dax Shepard? And do you go up to Tahoe a lot?
55:51 Speaker 06 Yeah, my wife and I spend quite a bit of time up there. We like to ski and take our dogs up there.
55:56 Dax Shepard? Okay, so Mike, you had a crazy neighbor, or maybe you've had more than one?
55:59 Speaker 06 Yeah, I did, and not so much one isolated incident, as crazy neighbor stories often go, but kind of a progressive story over the period of a few years that kind of culminated in one large event.
56:11 Dax Shepard? Oh, fun, okay. Bread crumbs and then a loaf.
56:15 Speaker 06 Totally. So 2022, my wife and I bought our house, moved back to the state. We both grew up in this area. It was a big deal for us, kind of buying our dream house and moving home, being close to family again. And we found this sweet little neighborhood. Everyone seemed really cool. Our next door neighbors, very friendly, trails out of our back doors, so it did seem just like this textbook, picture perfect little thing. And we settled in really well and started meeting all the neighbors and everyone was cool. And we met one guy who was a little odd, but seemed like he was successful, was driving around in a nice sports car and to have some odd conversations with him here and there at the mailboxes.
56:55 Dax Shepard? Were you guys way younger than all your neighbors?
56:58 Speaker 06 We are, yeah, yeah, we're a generation below the majority of our neighbors, but this guy, not significantly older than us, but definitely in a different stage of life. Every once in a while, people in the neighborhood will shoot. It's not a big deal. It's the country. I don't mind.
57:13 Dax Shepard? Shoot guns?
57:14 Speaker 06 Yeah, shoot guns. It's definitely a culture thing out here in the foothills. And he would, you know, shoot guns every few weeks. I'd hear some gunshots and whatnot coming from down the hill and wouldn't really think much of it.
57:25 Dax Shepard? Are people on acres in this neighborhood?
57:27 Speaker 06 Yeah, these are all like five acre and bigger lots, bigger parcels. You've got room to do that kind of stuff. So I didn't really think much of it at first. It became a little bit more frequent and this is, you know, over the next year or so, the frequencies of these shooting events happened a little bit more and I just started having some weird weird encounters with the guy around the neighborhood where he just seemed a little bit off.
57:51 Dax Shepard? Okay.
57:52 Speaker 06 I work in healthcare. I've got a pretty good scope of when people just aren't quite at their proper baseline.
57:58 Speaker 01 Yeah.
57:59 Speaker 06 And I would just catch him out on the roads again at the mailbox and he just seemed a little off.
58:05 Dax Shepard? Did he seem angry?
58:06 Speaker 01 Like manic?
58:07 Speaker 06 Not angry, but just having very strange strings of thoughts. Just those odd conversations you have where they'll just like interject with some very out there.
58:17 Dax Shepard? Non sequitur.
58:18 Speaker 06 Exactly. Yeah. And so I started having those with him and my wife had a couple of very odd encounters out on the road, walking the dogs where he was behind the wheel of a car and seemed like, you know, he was not in a good state of mind to be doing so. So we're starting to get a little bit concerned about this. Nothing like too acutely terrifying has happened, but we're starting to take notes. I also, you know, like most people kind of lurk the local community Facebook page and I'm just keeping tabs on the neighborhood. And I read a few posts from some moms in the neighborhood about like, hey, there's just this kind of odd guy that's like talking to my kids at the park and stuff.
58:59 Speaker 06 And they kind of described the vehicle and I'm like, oh God, you know, like this isn't good.
59:06 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
59:07 Speaker 06 And so we're now at this point, it's last summer. When I initially sent this in, I thought July, but then I looked back at my videos and photos and it was actually in like September. So peak fire season. I mean, things are bone dry around here. Over the summer, the shooting had grown to a point where it was daily. These shooting events were now going from like maybe a hundred rounds to like a few hundred rounds.
59:32 Speaker 01 Oh my god.
59:33 Speaker 06 From what I understand ammo is pretty expensive. This was daily occurrences for days on end. And also the kinds of guns he was shooting weren't just your normal like pop, pop. They were like
59:45 Dax Shepard? Fully auto?
59:46 Speaker 06 Yeah.
59:47 Speaker 01 Oh my god.
59:48 Speaker 06 Heavy duty hardware kind of stuff.
59:50 Dax Shepard? Yeah. And I think full auto is illegal in California.
59:54 Speaker 06 Yeah, there's no license you can have in California. I think that allows you to have anything like that. At this point, I'm avoiding this guy. I was in school at the time. I was trying to study. It was interrupting my studying. I was kind of at my wit's end with it. I am out in the yard one day spreading some gravel in the driveway. And I will never forget, my wife was standing up on the patio and we hear this enormous explosion down the hill, immediately followed by another explosion. And I hear somebody screaming.
1:00:24 Speaker 01 No, no.
1:00:25 Speaker 06 There is a massive column of black smoke that just rises up in the air. And I'm thinking, here we go.
1:00:31 Dax Shepard? Yeah, he's now working in explosives. He's
1:00:33 Speaker 01 Yeah, seriously.
1:00:35 Dax Shepard? Small arms to C4.
1:00:37 Speaker 06 Calling it into Cal Fire. My neighbor's next door is standing out in his yard looking at me like, whoa, what's going on? I'm on the phone with dispatch, trying to tell them what's going on. And there are just like explosions going off in the background. My wife and I go into action mode, you know, we've got the grab bag, you've got animals, the cash, the documents, all that list of things they tell you to have ready to go. Well, the one thing that we had to get was our Husky. If you know anything about Huskies, they've got their own agenda normally. And it tends to be the exact opposite of what you want in the moment.
1:01:12 Dax Shepard? And they like to get out and just roam, right?
1:01:14 Speaker 06 Yeah, they're kind of wild animals at heart. Add some explosions on top of that. And she's like, nope, sorry, guys. So she's gone.
1:01:22 Speaker 01 Oh.
1:01:22 Speaker 06 I'm like, okay, what do we do here? We have elderly neighbors. So I'm like, let's just go start letting people know.
1:01:29 Dax Shepard? Because at this point, you're concerned the fire is going to take over your neighborhood.
1:01:32 Speaker 06 Right up the hill. I mean, we are bone dry, peak fire season. We're in the hills. This guy sits at the foot of a hill. But we drive down to the neighbor's house. We let him know, hey, so and so's house is on fire. And we're waiting around. We're just looking for the dog. And at this point, they've got helicopters overhead scouting it. They've got spotter planes. They brought in the Cal Fire bombers. So they jump on it. And I start seeing fire engines. I hear the sirens. So I jumped down the hill and guided him back down to the correct house. Props to the local fire department. They jumped on it. I was so impressed with how much resource they sent to this thing to get on it right away. Because it could have been nasty, but it seemed like they got on it. It was limited to just the structure and the guy's house.
1:02:17 Speaker 06 And nothing really blew up from there, but it was a very close call that we all kind of saw coming, I think, from a mile away. I rode my quad down once things seemed to have kind of stabilized and I hopped on my ATV and rode down and this big fire inspector guy sees me and he's like, are you the homeowner? And he starts walking up to me. I'm like, no, man, I called you guys in. Like, I live up the hill. He's like, well, we found like IEDs in the roof and apparently they found some wild stuff in this guy's house. I haven't seen this guy since. He has been AWOL.
1:02:52 Dax Shepard? You have still never seen the guy?
1:02:54 Speaker 06 I have still not seen this guy. He disappeared.
1:02:57 Dax Shepard? Did you guys ever learn from the fire investigators if he had set off the explosion or if something self ignited in there?
1:03:04 Speaker 06 I never heard anything. I never got any follow up on it. So I don't know if it's still like an active, if they're like looking into something.
1:03:12 Dax Shepard? And was the house burnt to the ground?
1:03:13 Speaker 06 It was still standing. I sent a video in, I think, if you guys got that. It shows they're spraying down the upper level of the house. It was completely burned to the bones.
1:03:22 Speaker 01 Oh my god.
1:03:23 Speaker 06 Yeah, it's still standing, but if you look at it, it's done for.
1:03:27 Dax Shepard? Mike, we've got the video.
1:03:28 Speaker 01 Okay, we're gonna watch it.
1:03:29 Dax Shepard? Rob's gonna show us the video right now.
1:03:31 Speaker 01 Oh shit.
1:03:31 Dax Shepard? I feel like a real news show.
1:03:33 Speaker 01 Me too.
1:03:34 Dax Shepard? Oh yeah, this is a big scene. By the way, it's beautiful where you live.
1:03:38 Speaker 06 Thank you.
1:03:39 Dax Shepard? Oh, it sounds like the end of the world with all the fucking goats bladdying.
1:03:44 Speaker 06 Yeah, and probably twenty different fire engines. They had two different planes on it. It was impressive watching how they went after it, so.
1:03:51 Dax Shepard? Dying to know what this guy's ism was.
1:03:54 Speaker 06 Yeah, 'cause I am right there with you. Maybe some schizophrenia with substance.
1:03:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:04:00 Speaker 06 And they often kind of follow each other like that.
1:04:02 Dax Shepard? Self-medication that's making it worse? Oh wow.
1:04:07 Speaker 01 That is rough.
1:04:08 Speaker 06 Wild a couple of years and then that problem kind of taking care of itself for me, I guess.
1:04:13 Dax Shepard? Yeah, so it's kind of like a PSA to other people. Like, if you got that neighbor, don't worry, he'll blow his house up soon and up.
1:04:19 Speaker 01 He might blow your house up, so you gotta be aware.
1:04:22 Speaker 06 Well, you never know what your neighbor has. Like, there was just that news story about the kid who inherited his dad's house and he had like a brick of seafore in it.
1:04:29 Dax Shepard? Oh, really?
1:04:30 Speaker 06 He was an old demo instructor. Yeah, that was just like last week here in California. You never know what your neighbor's got.
1:04:36 Dax Shepard? Wowzers.
1:04:37 Speaker 01 What is going on in these homes, you know?
1:04:39 Speaker 06 I know.
1:04:40 Dax Shepard? I also bet up there, there's a mix of some raw dog dudes.
1:04:44 Speaker 06 Yeah, there are definitely some people hiding out up here.
1:04:46 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah, that's a great way to say it.
1:04:48 Speaker 06 We're close enough to the city that, you know, you do have the professionals and stuff that come up here to just get away from it, but you've also got the other side of it.
1:04:56 Speaker 01 Wow.
1:04:57 Dax Shepard? Some guys trying not to be found.
1:04:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:05:00 Dax Shepard? Oh, well, Mike, this was delightful. I'm sorry that happened.
1:05:02 Speaker 01 But that was a good story.
1:05:03 Speaker 06 Thank you. Yeah, it was fun to share it with you guys. And if I can just give my wife a quick shout out, she's the one that turned me on to the podcast and she's getting ready for work right now, actually, so she wasn't able to hop in.
1:05:13 Dax Shepard? What do we call her? We're gonna have to call her a fake name.
1:05:16 Speaker 06 Kathleen. How about that one?
1:05:17 Speaker 01 Kathleen, thank you, Kathleen.
1:05:19 Dax Shepard? Very sexy. Kathleen Turner, you know, seductress. Great meet you, brother. I love that story.
1:05:25 Speaker 06 Yeah, this was fun.
1:05:26 Dax Shepard? And send our love to your wife.
1:05:27 Speaker 06 Absolutely, will do. Y'all take care.
1:05:29 Dax Shepard? Be good, brother.
1:05:29 Speaker 01 Bye. I liked him because he was a medical professional.
1:05:34 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:05:34 Speaker 01 And it was mixed messages.
1:05:35 Dax Shepard? Yeah, I like that. He was a medical professional and owned a quad.
1:05:39 Speaker 01 Yeah, and he was a great storyteller.
1:05:41 Dax Shepard? And it was mixed messages.
1:05:42 Speaker 01 And he was on top of it because he was helping the neighbors. He was.
1:05:47 Dax Shepard? Taking care. He's gonna get the old folks out.
1:05:49 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's nice.
1:05:50 Dax Shepard? I did that during our fires, if you recall.
1:05:52 Speaker 01 That's nice.
1:05:52 Dax Shepard? I went up to that really old gal. She still walks. We have a neighbor. She's so impressive. She's in her 90s, I think. And she walks home from the grocery store with her groceries.
1:06:03 Speaker 01 Oh, my God.
1:06:04 Dax Shepard? And I went over and I said, hey, how you doing? I just wanted to invite you to our house if it gets tricky or you need. And she's like, oh, I'm almost offended, you know?
1:06:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:06:13 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was great. It was great. I was like, okay, you're good. You're good.
1:06:17 Speaker 01 I thought maybe you saw my lady's ghost and you thought she was alive and real.
1:06:22 Dax Shepard? Your lady's ghost?
1:06:23 Speaker 01 The lady who lived in my home before me.
1:06:25 Dax Shepard? Oh, who died in your house?
1:06:26 Speaker 01 She didn't die in there.
1:06:27 Dax Shepard? Yes, she did.
1:06:28 Speaker 01 No, she didn't. I looked it up.
1:06:30 Dax Shepard? Look, my old house, there's a murder.
1:06:31 Speaker 01 Listen, I know, but that's not what happened. Okay? I looked it up. She didn't die on the property. They have to disclose that. She probably died in the hospital. Okay. Would be my guess, but she was 100. And I thought maybe you went over there to check on her and she was there because she was a ghost.
1:06:47 Dax Shepard? Oh, and she said, ghosts can walk through flames. I'll be fine.
1:06:50 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's right. Oh, I don't think she'll like that you did that.
1:06:54 Dax Shepard? Are you inclined to like, learn a lot about her?
1:06:58 Speaker 01 Yes, I thought many times, I guess, spoiler, about doing a documentary that's me investigating her and her life and also the neighborhood.
1:07:06 Dax Shepard? Oh, yeah, that would be nice.
1:07:07 Speaker 01 Because, you know, she was called the queen of Laughlin Park.
1:07:09 Dax Shepard? Oh.
1:07:10 Speaker 01 You don't know a lot about her.
1:07:12 Dax Shepard? Other than that she died in your house?
1:07:14 Speaker 01 No, don't do that. She's gonna be mad at you for saying that. She might haunt you.
1:07:18 Dax Shepard? I bet she'd prefer that she died in her house than the hospital. So I bet she likes this revisionist history.
1:07:24 Speaker 01 She wants the truth to be told.
1:07:25 Dax Shepard? Okay, let's tell the truth.
1:07:26 Speaker 01 Very honest.
1:07:27 Dax Shepard? All right. I love you. That's the truth.
1:07:31 Dax Shepard? Do you want to sing a tune or something? We know a theme song. Oh, okay, great. We don't have a theme song for this new show, so here I go, go, go. We're gonna ask some random questions and with the help of our cherries, we'll get some suggestions. On the fly, Rhyme Dish. On the fly, Rhyme Dish. Enjoy.
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