Pod Insights American Scandal West Memphis Three | Crime and Punishment | 2 About this episode A month after the brutal murders of three 8-year-old boys in West Memphis, Arkansas, a suspect confesses to police. His testimony leads to the arrest of two other local teenagers, who police accuse of conducting a Satanic ritual sacrifice. As the trial dates near, critics claim the affair has become more like a witch hunt than a legitimate investigation.
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0:00 Lindsay Graham? Audible subscribers can binge new seasons of American Scandal early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts. American Scandal uses dramatizations that are based on true events. Some elements, including dialogue, might be invented, but everything is based on historical research. This episode contains descriptions of murder, violence against children, and discussions of suicide. Listener discretion is advised.
0:28 Lindsay Graham? It's late on June 3, 1993, in a trailer park in West Memphis, Arkansas. Two police officers march 18-year-old Damian Echols out of his parents' trailer with his hands cuffed behind his back. Moments later, his friend Jason Baldwin follows. A convoy of police cars surround the trailer, their lights glaring eerily through the darkness. It's been almost a month since the mutilated bodies of three eight-year-old boys were discovered in a wooded area off the interstate on the outskirts of town.
1:13 Lindsay Graham? Now Echols and Baldwin have been arrested on suspicion of committing the terrible crime. Echols is strangely calm as he's shoved into the back of a police car, but Baldwin's eyes are wild with fear. He's just 16 years old and looks even younger than that. At five foot eight and weighing just 112 pounds, he's dwarfed by the police officers who push him into the car next to Echols. Hey, I don't understand what's going on. You've got the wrong people. My name's Jason Baldwin. I'm just 16. Man, they know that, Jason. With a skid of gravel, the police car moves off. Baldwin stares at Echols. How can you be so calm about all this? I guess I've sort of been waiting for this to happen. You're relieved? No, no.
1:58 Lindsay Graham? Yeah, I don't know. I told you, I haven't been sleeping. But they think we're killers, man, killers. We didn't do anything. Baldwin kicks the back of his seat in frustration. The cop in the driver's seat glares at him in the mirror. Echols leans in a little closer. Hey, man, just stay calm, all right? We're gonna get through this. Why us, though? I mean, I don't get it. What do we do? Well, look at your shirt. Baldwin glances down at his faded concert tee. What, they don't like Metallica? Probably not, and it's black. Look, Jace, they think we're Satan worshippers or some crap. That's ridicu- Metallica is a band! Eckles shrugs, and Baldwin feels like screaming. It's all that wicca stuff you're into, isn't it? Oh, don't come at me, man.
2:42 Lindsay Graham? I told you to stop talking about that to people. They don't know what it means, you got us into this. Jace, Jace, hey, listen to me, man. We can't turn on each other. We'll get a lawyer, and then everything's gonna be fine. They've got nothing, no evidence, because we didn't do it, right? And as long as we back each other up, we'll get through this. Alright, okay. God, what are my parents gonna say, man? I can't go to prison? Did you, did you see how many cop cars there were? Yeah, they were just trying to freak us out. You know how cops are. Just remember, whatever they say, we have to stick together, right? If we do that, we're gonna get all this cleaned up.
3:18 Lindsay Graham? When they arrive at the West Memphis Police Station, Jason Baldwin and Damian Eckles are separated. Their clothes are taken away. And then they have to give samples of their blood, hair, and saliva. But while they prepare for their first night behind bars, for the West Memphis Police Department, it's time to celebrate. The pressure on them has been intense, but now they believe they finally found the killers, and they can't wait to tell the world.
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4:55 Lindsay Graham? From Wondery, I'm Lindsay Graham, and this is American Scandal.
5:19 Lindsay Graham? In May 1993, three boys were found murdered in the small town of West Memphis, Arkansas. Eight-year-olds Christopher Byers, Stevie Branch, and Michael Moore had been missing for less than 24 hours when their bodies were discovered in a creek. But detectives struggled to identify their killer. They only made arrests after a local teenager named Jesse Miss Kelly confessed to the crime and identified Damian Echols and Jason Baldwin as his accomplices. But just hours after the three young men were taken into custody, 17-year-old Miss Kelly recanted his confession. Under duress, after a 12-hour interrogation, he'd been ready to say just about anything to the police. All he'd wanted was to go home.
6:02 Lindsay Graham? But thinking they found their killers, the police had no intention of letting them go. They pronounced the case was closed and scheduled a press conference for the following morning. It was time to let the courts and prosecutors take over and finally secure justice for the three murdered boys. This is episode two, The Trial of Jesse Miss Kelly.
6:26 Lindsay Graham? It's the morning of June 4th, 1993, at the West Memphis Police Station. Journalists pack into a cramped briefing room for a hastily arranged press conference. A line of police officers stand behind a table at the front, their faces are somber, but there's no mistaking the gleam of satisfaction in their eyes. All of their hard work has finally paid off. Cameras flash as Chief of Detectives Gary Getchel takes a seat in front of a bank of microphones. Looking around the room, he announces that their month-long investigation is at an end. The sadists who tortured and murdered three eight-year-old boys have finally been caught. Getchel then confirms that the accused murderers are all local teenagers who have been under suspicion since the early days of the police investigation: Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin,
7:11 Lindsay Graham? and Jessie Miss Kelly. Getchel then sits back and opens up the floor to questions from journalists. There's an immediate rush, but to the reporters' obvious frustration, Getchel can't say much yet. He won't tell them the motive of the killers, if the murderers knew their victims, or how Echols, Baldwin, and Miss Kelly were finally caught. But there is one question he does answer. When asked how confident he is in their case on a scale of 1 to 10, Chief Getchel smiles and says 11. Soon after that, the press conference breaks up, and word of the arrest spreads across the country. But as the television news channels dissect Getchel's public statements for any clue, in private, the police are more forthcoming. Additional information is provided to the relatives of the victims and the accused,
7:55 Lindsay Graham? including a copy of Jessie Miss Kelly's confession. For the parents and loved ones of the murdered boys, Miss Kelly's account is a difficult read, but it provides some closure at least, now they know what happened to their children. But for the families of Echols, Baldwin, and Miss Kelly, the typed confession raises more questions than it answers. To the mother of Jason Baldwin especially, the idea that he might be involved in the murders is ridiculous. Jason isn't a criminal, and nothing the police say can convince her otherwise. And even on the first reading, she can see that Ms. Kelly's account is riddled with errors and contradictions. He repeatedly insisted that the murders happened early in the day, either in the morning or just after noon.
8:36 Lindsay Graham? But as Baldwin's mother tries to point out to the police, that simply cannot be true. All three of the victims attended school that day, and so did Jason. The timeline suggested by Ms. Kelly is impossible, so either he's lying, or investigators have put words into his mouth. But the police don't budge, pointing out that Ms. Kelly's confession was recorded on tape, and they reject any suggestion that they could or would influence his testimony. And every officer in the department finds Ms. Kelly credible. Detectives simply can't believe any innocent person would falsely confess to such a heinous crime. But despite their show of confidence in front of the media and the families, behind the scenes at West Memphis Police Station, investigators know their work is far from over.
9:18 Lindsay Graham? The reality is that aside from Ms. Kelly's confession, the police don't have anything on Baldwin and Echols. The blood, hair, and saliva samples taken from them can't be linked to the crime scene. The detectives still haven't recovered the murder weapon, and they don't even have hard proof that the accused killers were actually Satanists. All that leaves them with is some scattered witness testimony. Local woman Vicky Hutchison swears that Echols and Ms. Kelly took her to a witch's orgy, and there are several local teenagers who claim they overheard Echols saying he committed the murders. Ordinarily, those statements and the Ms. Kelly confession probably would not be enough for a conviction, but this is no ordinary case. And now that arrests have been made, most of the public seem to have made up their minds already.
10:03 Lindsay Graham? That's certainly true of 39-year-old John Mark Byers, the stepfather of one of the victims. He's become the unofficial spokesperson for the grieving families. And on a sunny afternoon soon after the police press conference, he agrees to speak with a film crew who are making a documentary about the case. The arrests in West Memphis have only deepened the media's obsession with the murders, and HBO has commissioned a film to chronicle the investigation and upcoming trial. So accompanied by the documentary team, Byers trudges through the small patch of forest where the bodies were found. Called Robin Hood Hills by the locals, it used to be a place where kids rode their bikes and ran around. Now, though, it's almost deserted.
10:44 Lindsay Graham? As he approaches the gully where police recovered his stepson Christopher, Byers pauses. He runs a hand through his thinning, rust-colored hair before pulling his camouflage hat down tight. Behind him, the director clears his throat and tees him up for the camera.
10:59 Speaker 02 Alright, so can you tell us what's on your mind as you walk through these woods?
11:03 Lindsay Graham? Byers turns his gaze to the sky. The word of the Lord is all I'm thinking about.
11:07 Speaker 02 Is there a particular verse?
11:09 Lindsay Graham? "Yea, though I walk through the valley of death, I shall fear no evil." Look, I'm not scared of the devil. Thy rod and thy staff comfort me, you know? And I thank the Lord for letting me be able to believe in that with all my heart. You have anything to say to the three teenagers who are accused of killing your stepson? I do. I hope y'all really believe in your master Satan, the sleuth foot, the devil himself? Because he's not gonna help you. He's gonna laugh at you, mock you, and torture you. He didn't need your help. The devil's got all the demons he needs. So you're confident the killers worship Satan? Everybody's saying it. Lucifer didn't need them, but he took their minds and manipulated them. They prayed to the devil. They had their satanic worship surfaces out here, and they had all types of wild orgies, too. Who told you that?
11:54 Lindsay Graham? Well, I've been told crazy things. To me, the place where I'm standing is hell on earth. Because I know that three babies were killed right where I stand. I know my son was castrated and probably laid there, right there on the bank, just bleeding to death. It's like those killers enjoyed it. Hey, if this is too difficult, we can pause for a moment. No, I'm not done. Jesse Miss Kelly, Jason Baldwin, Damian Echols, I hope your master, the devil, takes you. I want you to meet him real soon, and the day you die, I'm gonna praise God. Byers pauses for a moment, then looks directly into the camera. I'm gonna make you a promise. Every year on May 5th, I'm gonna come to your graveside and I'm gonna spit on you. I'm gonna curse the day you were born.
12:42 Lindsay Graham? Attorney Dan Stidham pulls his car into a parking spot outside a jail in the small town of Wayne, Arkansas, and then cuts the engine. He takes a moment, wondering what he's about to get himself into. He's been assigned to defend Jesse Miss Kelly, who's already confessed to murder. So Stidham would be the first to admit that this case has him in over his head. He's only 27 and doesn't have much experience with serious felonies. And like nearly everyone else in America, Stidham assumes that because of the confession, Miss Kelly must be guilty. So his first meeting with his new client is a bit awkward. Stidham doesn't know what to say, and Miss Kelly barely looks at him. Jail has not been kind to Miss Kelly so far.
13:25 Lindsay Graham? He's always been a skinny kid, but now there are dark hollows under his cheeks and his eyes are rimmed red with tears. Stidham tries to make a little small talk to cheer Miss Kelly up, but it doesn't do much good, so Stidham decides to cut to the chase, saying they need to make a deal with the prosecutors. Miss Kelly's testimony is the key evidence against Damien Echols and Jason Baldwin, so if they play their cards right, they can use it as leverage. By offering to testify against his alleged accomplices, Miss Kelly may be able to secure a favorable sentence. But as Stidham tries to explain this, Miss Kelly doesn't seem to be listening. He just sits, hunched over with his head between his legs. Stidham crouches down, so he's eye level with Miss Kelly.
14:07 Lindsay Graham? And in his most solemn and forceful tone, he reminds his client that the prosecution intends to try him as an adult. That would be serious. He could be facing the death penalty. But none of it appears to get through, so Stidham straightens up and sighs. He tries to hide his frustration, knowing that no matter what Miss Kelly may have done, he's still only 17 years old and must be terrified. Looking around the jail cell and searching for a way to engage Miss Kelly, Stidham spots a glossy piece of paper on the cot beside him. It's a religious pamphlet, the kind passed out by churches to warn against sinful behavior. He raises an eyebrow and asks Miss Kelly about it. Ms. Kelly shrugs again and tells him he got it from a preacher in jail.
14:49 Lindsay Graham? Then he asks if Stidham knows who Satan is. Stidham shakes his head, asking what Ms. Kelly means. The boy replies that when the pastor came by, he said Ms. Kelly was going to hell and gave him this pamphlet, telling him all about it. Then with some difficulty, Ms. Kelly reads part of the pamphlet out loud. He says it's all about someone named Satan. Stidham's jaw drops as he realizes what he's hearing. He looks again at Ms. Kelly and the utter sincerity of the boy's face. This is who's being accused of participating in a satanic cult, of being a witch, of sacrificing three little boys to the devil, and he doesn't even know who Satan is? Dan Stidham came to this jail, assuming his new client was a vicious murderer, but suddenly,
15:34 Lindsay Graham? in a flash, he's not so sure. Jesse and Ms. Kelly may not be guilty at all.
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17:24 Lindsay Graham? Following his meeting with Jesse Miss Kelly, defense attorney Dan Stidham changes strategy. His original plan had been to seek a plea deal, gaining Miss Kelly a more favorable sentence in exchange for his cooperation in the case. But now Stidham has decided that Miss Kelly should plead not guilty instead. He wants to take the case to trial because the only real evidence tying Miss Kelly to the crime is his 34-minute taped confession. And Stidham hopes to get it thrown out. If he can convince a judge that the confession was coerced and should not be heard by the jury, then the prosecution will have almost nothing to base their case on. And recent developments have only given Stidham more hope. West Memphis Police have finally received the autopsy results,
18:07 Lindsay Graham? weeks after the examinations were performed. The reason for the delay is unclear, but the findings contradict some of the investigation's major assumptions and Miss Kelly's confession. Because the victims were found nude and one was apparently castrated, detectives have long believed that there was a sexual component to the crime. In his confession, Miss Kelly stated that Eccles and Baldwin repeatedly assaulted the boys. But now the autopsy reports suggest that there was no sexual assaults at all and that at least some of the mutilation to the bodies was likely caused by wild animals instead. Stidham believes that these latest revelations will strengthen his case. And over months of pre-trial motions, he tries to convince the authorities to throw
18:51 Lindsay Graham? out Ms. Kelly's statement, but to no avail. Stidham's arguments are rejected, and it's determined that the jurors should be the ones to decide whether the confession is valid or not. It's a blow for Ms. Kelly's defense. And meanwhile, the prosecution is working hard to find more evidence to use against him and the other two accused. They search the suspect's home and forensically test hundreds of samples, everything from clothing to possible weapons. Eventually, experts find several fibers on Baldwin and Eccles' clothing that are microscopically similar to those found at the scene of the crime. But then it's confirmed that the fibers come from mass-produced clothing that can be purchased at stores across the nation. And that's the only link investigators find.
19:33 Lindsay Graham? Despite the brutality of the murders, there's not a single hair, fingerprint, or drop of blood that can tie Eccles, Ms. Kelly, or Baldwin to the case. So investigators rack their brains, searching for something they may have overlooked. Six months after the murders, in November of 1993, a deputy prosecutor on the case has a sudden bolt of inspiration. While driving one day, he notices a lake between the Baldwin and Eccles family trailers, and it looks to him like an ideal place to get rid of evidence. So a team of divers searches the pond. Soon, an officer surfaces holding a nine-inch survival knife. The autopsies of the victims determine their wounds were caused by a serrated blade, and this one fits the bill.
20:17 Lindsay Graham? Investigators can't definitively prove it's the murder weapon, or even that it belonged to any of the accused, but one of Eccles' ex-girlfriends says it looks similar to a knife he used to carry. And as far as police and prosecutors are concerned, it's another brick in their growing wall of evidence that they will first use in the case against Jesse Ms. Kelly, who's being tried separately from the other two suspects. On January 18, 1994, proceedings get underway in a packed courtroom in the town of Corning, Arkansas. The presiding judge is David Burnett, a former prosecutor with a feathery crop of golden red hair. The testimony the court hears over the following days is devastating. Three little bicycles owned by the eight-year-old victims are wheeled into the room to show
21:02 Lindsay Graham? the jury, along with graphic images of the abuse they suffered at the hands of their killers. Throughout it all, Ms. Kelly remains hunched over, his eyes downcast. He never looks up, even when he's directly addressed by witnesses. His attorney, Dan Stidham, has advised him to sit like that. He doesn't want Ms. Kelly to seem arrogant, but as the trial continues, it becomes clear it's not leaving a good impression on spectators. It doesn't look humble, and instead, Ms. Kelly just appears guilty. So it's up to Stidham to turn things around. The crucial witness for the prosecution is the West Memphis Police Department's Chief of Detectives Gary Getchel. He led the interview in which Ms. Kelly made his confession, and Stidham knows he has to be discredited.
21:46 Lindsay Graham? So during cross-examination, he quickly homes in on the inconsistencies in Ms. Kelly's account. Inspector Getchel, we all heard the tape recording of Jesse's confession. Did you find his testimony plausible? Yes, sir, I did. That's the reason why we're all here. But his statement wasn't perfect, was it? I don't know what you mean. Well, would you agree that not everything my client said aligns with the known facts of the case? Well, no confession, perfect. On the tape, Jesse claimed the victims skipped school on the day of the murders. Is that accurate? No, sir, it's not. My client also stated the boys were killed around noon. Is that accurate? No. According to the forensics, they weren't killed until later that night. And you knew that that was incorrect when Jesse told you that? Yes, sir. Thank you.
22:32 Lindsay Graham? How are the boys tied when their bodies were discovered? A shoestring from the wrist, like right wrist to right ankle. But in Jesse's statement, that was played to the jury, didn't he tell you that they were tied with brown rope? That's correct. And is there any evidence that the victims were choked to death, as Jesse described? No. Is there any evidence that they were sodomized, as Jesse described? No, I don't believe so. Well, these seem to be pretty important issues. At any time when he was telling you these things that you knew were incorrect, did it ever occur to you that if what he was telling you was false, then perhaps his entire story was false as well? I believe Jesse was manipulating the facts to his own advantage. For what advantage? To minimize his own involvement in the murders. That's just common, at least in my 20-year career.
23:18 Lindsay Graham? But these are major errors, Inspector. It was a long day. Jesse simply got confused, that's all. So he confused day with night? Repeated sexual assaults with no sexual assault? Brown rope with black shoelaces? On issue after issue, there is simply no evidence to support the things he says. Actually, there is some. Excuse me? If I recall, there was a wound on one of the boys that suggested to me that they were tied with rope at one point or another. The courtroom murmurs as the jury leans in. Stidham tries to regain his composure. Well, hold on now. That's new information. It's never been suggested that ropes were used. Did you record this observation in any of your notes at the time? No, I don't think so. You didn't. Is there anything in the medical examiner's findings that confirms these suspicions?
24:02 Lindsay Graham? I'm not sure. Then, Your Honor, this is pure, unadulterated speculation from a witness who is not qualified to render such an opinion. Well, if you want, I can draw a picture for the jury. I still remember what the mark looked like.
24:17 Lindsay Graham? Dan Stidham turns to the judge, expecting that his objection will be upheld. But instead, Stidham is flabbergasted when Judge Burnett permits Inspector Getchel to sketch the wounds he claimed he saw and then pass the crude diagram to the jurors. This is a serious blow to Stidham's case. Instead of highlighting the inconsistencies in Miss Kelly's confession, Getchel's testimony has only added more evidence of guilt. But there's still hope, because the prosecution hasn't yet established a motive. Stidham watches the next witness carefully. Thirty-year-old Vicki Hutchison strides across the courtroom, her tweed jacket flapping behind her. Despite not being a police officer, she voluntarily went undercover to investigate Damien Echols' supposed involvement in Satanism.
25:02 Lindsay Graham? For eight days, she roped the eighteen-year-old Echols into a fake romance while reporting everything he supposedly told her to Detective Donald Bray of the Marion Police Department. Now, after swearing her oath, Hutchison explains to the jury how Echols invited her to a twisted orgy in the woods, and how Jessie Miss Kelly was there too. Throughout Hutchison's testimony, Dan Stidham objects again and again, telling the judge that the alleged cult meeting is irrelevant because Hutchison claims it occurred weeks after the killings. There was nothing at the actual scene of the crime that indicated the murders were satanic or related to any other known cult. But once again, Stidham's objections are overruled, and the prosecution is delighted.
25:46 Lindsay Graham? Hutchison's testimony provides exactly what they were missing: the reason Miss Kelly and the others allegedly killed the three eight-year-olds. It was because they worshiped Satan. So during his cross-examination, Stidham tries to call Hutchison's credibility into question, pointing out that before she started working with Detective Bray, she had been accused of overcharging a company credit card, and was also under investigation for writing fake checks. But after she went undercover, those investigations suddenly disappeared. Stidham hints that a quid pro quo was involved, that Hutchison helped the police out of a desire to escape her own legal troubles, or in the hopes of claiming a reward. But Hutchison insists, none of that was ever on her mind.
26:28 Lindsay Graham? Stidham is sure that she's stretching the truth, but he can't deny that she's an effective witness. Even when she told the court her over-the-top story about the satanic cult meeting in the woods, he could see the jurors hanging on every word. Day by day, it feels to Stidham as if he's losing ground. So when prosecutor Brent Davis takes the floor to make his final arguments, Stidham hopes for an opening, something that might salvage the case. He doesn't get one. Davis begins by minimizing the errors in Ms. Kelly's statement to police, saying the defense admits Ms. Kelly is a liar when they claim he gave a false confession. Yet now, they're asking the jury to believe the police are the ones twisting the truth.
27:09 Lindsay Graham? Quivering with emotion, Davis goes on, saying that he finds that repugnant. And when it comes to the murders themselves, he focuses on the brutality of the crimes. The savagery is evidence enough that the devil was at work in West Memphis. But thanks to Vicki Hutchison's compelling testimony, Davis argues there's plenty of reasons to believe Ms. Kelly was part of a demonic organization, and that the 12 people on the jury have the power to fight back against the devil himself, to put one of his servants away where he can't harm anyone else again. By the time Davis is finished, many in the courtroom are in tears, and Stidham is devastated. He looks over at his client, sees Jesse Ms. Kelly put his head in his hands. Both he
27:52 Lindsay Graham? and Stidham know, there's only one verdict the jury's gonna come back with: guilty.
28:01 Speaker 07 Hey, I'm Cassie DePecce, the host of Against the Odds from Audible Originals. In each episode, we share thrilling true stories of survival, putting you in the shoes of the people who lived to tell the tale. In our latest series, we track the story of Hugh Glass, the real-life revenant that inspired the 2015 film starring Leonardo DiCaprio. In 1823, Glass was brutally mauled by a grizzly bear in present-day South Dakota and left for dead. His survival depended on trekking through 350 miles of wilderness alone with grave injuries. But he was driven by his thirst for revenge. Follow Against the Odds wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes of Against the Odds early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.
28:46 Speaker 08 Ghosts aren't real. At least, that's what journalist Tristan Redmond always believed. Sure, odd things happened in his childhood bedroom, but ultimately, he shrugged them off. Until he discovered that he wasn't alone, that everyone who lived thereafter him also had bizarre experiences they couldn't explain. And it gets even weirder. It just so happens that his wife's great-grandmother was murdered in the house next door. Is this ghost somehow connected to her murder? He decides to go where no son-in-law should, digging up a cold case and asking questions that nobody wants answered. Like, could his wife's great-grandfather have gotten away with the perfect crime? This is a podcast about family secrets, overwhelming coincidence, and the things that come back
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29:56 Lindsay Graham? On February 5th, 1994, Jesse Miss Kelly is found guilty of one count of first-degree murder and two counts of second-degree murder. He's sentenced to life in prison plus forty years. Afterwards, he's asked if he has anything to say to the court, but Miss Kelly can't bring himself to speak. The unofficial spokesman for the victim's family has a lot to say, though. Outside the court building, a triumphant John Mark Byners tells reporters that he hopes Miss Kelly never sees sunlight again, and now he just wants his stepson's other two killers to face justice in the same way. Having kept tabs on Miss Kelly's trial from their jail cells, Damian Echols and Jason Baldwin are left shocked by the verdict. Up until now, they have both taken their situation seriously,
30:40 Lindsay Graham? but still believe the evidence was on their side and that they'd ultimately be exonerated. Now, though, they both face the very real prospect of life in prison, or even the death penalty. It's Echols who struggles the most. While behind bars, his beloved grandmother has died. Grief and his growing anxiety make a poisonous combination. He's now only getting a few hours of sleep every night, and as the weeks pass, he becomes erratic and even paranoid. At one point, he starts to believe the police are tampering with his medication, drugging his prison food, even pumping toxic gas through the vents. But despite his fragile state of mind, Echols' defense team still needs his help to prepare for the trial. They've hired a Memphis private detective named Ron Lax,
31:25 Lindsay Graham? and they need Echols to tell Lax everything.
31:30 Lindsay Graham? Curled up on his cot, Echols looks up as Lax is shown inside. Hey, Ron. Hey, Damian. How you doing? I got you something. Lax pulls out a pack of cigarettes, which Echols practically snatches from his hands. Lax then sits down on the cot and offers him a life. So I heard about your grandmother's passing. Man, I'm sorry for your loss. Probably better. She won't be around to see. See what? Them lock me away? Or kill me? Aw, Damian, you have to stay strong. That's what my girlfriend says. Well, she's a smart woman. Hey, and I heard you're a father now. Eccles just nods. So you got a lot to fight for. They won't even let me hold him. Well, you will. You keep telling yourself that. You're gonna get out of here. Well, I'm not going out like Jesse, that's for sure.
32:15 Lindsay Graham? Because they're gonna find you innocent. No, I'm saying if they don't find me innocent, I'm not going to prison. I'm gonna end it right there in the courtroom. Hey, hey, don't talk like that. Let's focus on your case. Alright. Good. I know we need to talk about the witnesses again. I know you said you didn't want to discuss it, but we have to get everything, everything out in the open. Prosecution have these girls who are saying that they overheard you confess to the murders at a softball game. Does that sound familiar to you at all? Maybe. Come on, tell me they're lying or something. Well, they are. I mean, I never said I did it, but... Yeah, well, but maybe I made some jokes. Everyone was saying I was the devil and all that, so I just, I don't know, I leaned in. What'd you say? I don't even remember. I wasn't serious, I was joking.
32:58 Lindsay Graham? Well, if these girls did overhear you, do you think your jokes could be misinterpreted? I don't, I don't know, Damien, come on. Look, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, okay? I'm sorry I wear black. I'm sorry I grew my hair out. I'm sorry I do anything. I don't know what I said, I just opened my mouth, words spill out. Hey, hey, it's okay. It's not illegal to make a joke. And the cops still don't have any real evidence tying you to the crime. Well, that didn't stop them from convicting Jesse. Jesse confessed. And as long as he doesn't testify, they won't be allowed to use that against you and Jason. Your case is strong, but I need you to take a second. I need you to take a second and think. Try to remember all the jokes you might have made before you got arrested. And I need specifics. Every word people might use against you. I need to know it all.
33:46 Lindsay Graham? Damien Eccles stares off into space. The sarcastic, edgy persona he spent his teenage years cultivating is now his biggest liability. Smoking his cigarette down to the filter, Eccles tries to remember every off-color joke he's made in the past few months. About the murders, about Satanism, about being evil. These are the details Lax needs, and he's glad to get them privately. Because though Damien Eccles and Jason Baldwin's trial may not have started yet, almost every detail of the case has already reached the press. For months, reporters from all over the country have been camped out in West Memphis. Some of them inflame the gossip about Satanism, others gleefully paint the town as backward and superstitious.
34:28 Lindsay Graham? Still, there are some who hold a more genuine interest in getting to the bottom of the case. By early 1994, the HBO documentary film crew has been in Arkansas for over six months. They've spent a significant amount of time with the families of both the victims and the accused. John Mark Byers and his wife Melissa have become especially close to the filmmakers. And as a gift, just prior to Eccles and Baldwin's trial, Byers gives a member of the documentary crew a fold-out hunting knife. Soon after, the filmmakers return to New York for a short break. And while fiddling with the knife there, one of them notices a dark stain at the base of the nine-inch blade near the hinges. They take a closer look under a bright light, and at first glance, it's hard to make out.
35:11 Lindsay Graham? The stain could be anything, but to someone working on a documentary about a triple murder, it looks a lot like blood. When Byers gave them the knife, he said it had never been used, so seeing blood unnerves the filmmakers. They're wary of publicizing the discovery and potentially pulling Byers into a storm of controversy. But even so, there is a remote possibility it has something to do with the murders. Some people have pointed the finger at Byers as the possible killer. This knife has a serrated edge, just like the one supposedly used in the murders. So troubled, the filmmakers call several meetings with their producers at HBO to debate their next move. In the end, they decide that turning over the knife to the West Memphis Police is the right thing to do.
35:54 Lindsay Graham? The authorities then send it off for testing at a lab in North Carolina. And a few weeks later, they call John Mark Byers in for an interview. It's West Memphis Chief Inspector Gary Getchel and Detective Bryn Ridge who ask him the questions. When they mention the knife, Byers claims he got it for deer hunting, but then never ended up using it. Getchel presses him, but Byers insists he hasn't cut anything with it, not even a single time. Getchel leans back. Trouble. Then he asks if anyone else might have had access to the knife, maybe Byers' wife or his teenage stepson. But Byers is adamant. He says before he gave it to the documentary crew member, he kept the knife in his chest of drawers. Detective Ridge pipes in at this point, asking Byers if there was any period of time, no matter how narrow,
36:38 Lindsay Graham? when the knife was not kept in a drawer. That's when Byers acknowledges that there is one possibility. He admits he may have trimmed his nails with the knife once. That's when Chief Gitl drops a bombshell. He tells Byers that they've got results back from a crime lab in North Carolina. It's confirmed that there's blood on the knife. Byers is surprised, but he suddenly seems to remember something else, telling the detectives that he actually did use the knife once to try and skin a deer, but he found it wasn't as good as his other blades, so he just put it up in his chest of drawers afterward. Gitl tells Byers that while his story may be true, it doesn't explain the lab's findings, because the forensic experts did not find deer blood on the blade. It was human, and its type matched eight-year-old Christopher, Byers' stepson.
37:23 Lindsay Graham? At this point, Byers' voice becomes shaky. He claims he has no idea how human blood could have gotten on the knife, and insists again that he never cut himself or anyone else using it. It all seems impossible. Quietly, and almost apologetically, Gitl then asks Byers if he had anything to do with the deaths of Christopher and the other two little boys. Byers' response is unequivocal: "No, absolutely not." After that, the police let Byers go, and a few hours later, they get more results from the lab. There isn't enough blood on the knife to get a precise DNA profile, but what they have is not only consistent with Christopher, but also with Byers himself. When that information is then relayed to Byers, he informs the police that actually,
38:06 Lindsay Graham? he does remember cutting himself with it once. The investigators don't press him any further. It seems that with the trials of Damien Echols and Jason Baldwin about to begin, the last thing the police want is to reopen the case. A bloody knife, belonging to the stepfather of one of the victims, is not the kind of evidence they're interested in. All that matters is that they've found a nest of Satanists, and they already know the devil is guilty.
38:34 Lindsay Graham? From Wondery, this is episode two of the West Memphis Three for American Scandal. In our next episode, after Jesse Miss Kelly's conviction, it's Damien Echols and Jason Baldwin's turning court, and the second trial of the West Memphis Three will prove even more sensational than the first.
38:57 Lindsay Graham? American Scandal is only possible because of listeners like you, so thank you. And don't miss an episode. Be sure to follow American Scandal on Audible or wherever you get your podcasts. And Audible subscribers can binge new seasons of American Scandal early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts. And to find out more about me, including my other podcasts, my live show, the history tours I'm arranging, and all sorts of other things, go to historyishuman.com. That's historyishuman.com. If you'd like to learn more about The West Memphis Three, we recommend the book Devil's Not: The True Story of the West Memphis Three by Mara Lebrun and the three-part HBO documentary Paradise Lost.
39:41 Lindsay Graham? This episode contains reenactments and dramatized details. And while in most cases we can't know exactly what was said, all our dramatizations are based on historical research. American Scandal is hosted, edited, and executive produced by me, Lindsay Graham, for Airship. Audio editing by Mohamed Shazib. Sound design by Gabriel Ghul. Music by Throm. This episode is written and researched by Terrell Wells. Fact checking by Alyssa Jung Perry. Managing producer Emily Burr. Development by Stephanie Jens. Senior producer Andy Beckerman. Executive producers are William Simpson for Airship, and Jenny Lauer Beckman and Marshall Louie for Wondery.
40:24 Speaker 09 Journalist Daphne Caruana Galizia spent her life exposing powerful people. Then, in 2017, she was killed in a car bombing. I'm Stephen Gray, and for the past nine years, I've been trying to find out who wanted her dead. That search took me to Malta through secret companies, organized crime, and eventually to one of the island's richest and most powerful men. Now, after years of waiting, his trial has finally happened. But when the verdict came in, the case took a turn that almost no one had expected. In a brand-new update to the multi-award-winning podcast Who Killed Daphne?, I'm returning to Malta to find out how we got there and where the search for the truth goes next. Listen to the new episode of Who Killed Daphne? wherever you get your podcasts, and you can
41:09 Speaker 09 hear the full six-part investigation from the beginning, ad-free with Audible. Join Audible today by downloading the Audible app and by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.
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