Ruby Ridge Standoff | Visions of Armageddon | 1

Radical Christian survivalist Randy Weaver moves his family into the remote mountains of Idaho to wait out the Apocalypse. But his growing involvement in a local neo-Nazi group draws the attention of federal investigators. Be the first to know about Wondery’s newest podcasts, curated recommendations, and more! Sign up now at https://wondery.fm/wonderynewsletter Listen to American Scandal on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. Experience all episodes ad-free and be the first to binge the newest season. Unlock exclusive early access by joining Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial today by visiting wondery.com/links/american-scandal/ http://wondery.com/links/american-scandal/ now. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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• 0:00Lindsay Graham?

  Audible subscribers can binge new seasons of American Scandal early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.

• 0:25Lindsay Graham?

  It's the morning of August 21st, 1992, in the remote mountains of northern Idaho. U.S. Marshal Dave Hunt barrels downhill through thick forest, clutching his rifle as distant gunshots echo through the trees, running alongside him is one of his colleagues from the Marshal Service. A few hours ago, Hunt, this colleague, and four other marshals hiked into the woods to conduct a surveillance mission. They were scouting a compound owned by a fugitive named Randy Weaver, man Hunt has been trying to convince to surrender peacefully for months. But the mission went disastrously wrong. The marshals were accidentally discovered by Weaver's family and a firefight broke out.

• 1:04Lindsay Graham?

  Now, at least one person is dead, and Hunt desperately needs to summon reinforcements. Hunt and his colleague break through the brush, reaching a broad meadow. The distant gunshots finally fall silent, and they risk slowing down to catch their breath. Across the meadow is a small wooden cabin. It belongs to Ruth Rowe, one of the Weavers' neighbors, who's been assisting the marshals with this operation. She's standing on her porch, peering at the two men who've suddenly come out of the shadows of the forest.

• 1:37Speaker 01

  Marshal, is that you? Everything all right? What's all that shooting?

• 1:41Lindsay Graham?

  Ruth, call 911. Get the sheriff out here now! Ruth nods and disappears inside. Hunt turns to his colleague. All right, you go get up the road. If the Weavers try and run, cut 'em off, and I'll call Washington. The marshals split up. Hunt's colleague heads across the meadow toward the road while Hunt hurries toward Ruth's cabin. He dashes up the steps of the small porch and strides through the door. Ruth is in the kitchen, a phone pressed to her ear. Uh, no, he's, he's here now. She thrusts the receiver at Hunt. It's, it's the sheriff's office. Right now, he can wait. Where are your kids? You need to evacuate. They're out back, I think. What, what's happened up there? Well, exactly what I've been trying to avoid for the last year and a half.

• 2:26Lindsay Graham?

  Hunt grabs the receiver and puts the phone to his ear. Yeah, hello, this is Marshal Dave Hunt up on the Ruby Ridge. I've got one officer dead and more pinned down. I need, I need help real quick. Yeah, I want the state police, I want all the help I can get. I gotta go. Yeah, as quick as you can. Hunt hangs up, and Ruth looks shocked. What is going on? You said someone's dead? Ruth, I've gotta call headquarters in Washington, but it is not safe here. You, did Randy do something? Him or one of the others, it's not clear yet. One of the Weavers may be dead too. Oh God, Ruth, I need you to get your things, get your kids, and get out of here. You understand, like, right now? Ruth nods, trembling slightly.

• 3:07Lindsay Graham?

  She turns and heads toward the other end of the cabin, calling out for her kids. Hunt dials his headquarters in Washington. He notices that his fingers are stained with blood and they tremble slightly as he dials. He takes a deep breath to steady himself. Yeah, this is Operation Northern Exposure. We've had a fatality. As Marshal Hunt waits to be connected to his superiors, he stares out the window of the cabin up at Ruby Ridge. He tries to imagine what's going through Randy Weaver's mind. His hatred of the government already ran bone-deep. But now the feds may have just shot and killed a member of his family. Hunt doesn't know what's going to happen next, but it's hard to imagine how Randy Weaver will ever come down that hill alive.

• 3:56Speaker 02

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• 4:26Lindsay Graham?

  Hi, I'm Lindsay Graham, the host of American History Tellers. In our latest series, US Army Lieutenant Adolphus Greeley and 24 other men embark on a scientific expedition to the Arctic in 1881. But despite achieving several triumphs of discovery, the men will soon face tragedy. Listen to American History Tellers on Audible or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 4:54Lindsay Graham?

  From Wondery, I'm Lindsay Graham, and this is American Scam.

• 5:18Lindsay Graham?

  In 1992, a deadly standoff at Ruby Ridge in Idaho shocked the nation and forever altered the way many Americans view law enforcement. This 11-day confrontation in the mountains left a legacy of animosity and distrust between the federal government and the most radical elements of the American right wing. It led directly to a surge in militia membership across the United States. And when Timothy McVeigh was apprehended for the Oklahoma City bombing, three years later, he cited revenge for Ruby Ridge as a primary motive behind his atrocities. But the man at the center of it all, Randy Weaver, never intended to inspire such violence. He really just wanted to be left alone. In the mid-1980s, Randy and his wife Vicki Weaver

• 6:02Lindsay Graham?

  had been driven by their obsessive religious faith to move their young family to northern Idaho. There, the Weavers fortified a ramshackle compound to prepare for the apocalypse in what they believed would be a final battle against their enemies. But in the end, their preparations for the end times became a tragic, self-fulfilling prophecy. In 1991, Weaver failed to show up for trial on gun-related charges, and the US Marshals were dispatched to bring him in. What followed was a chain of misunderstandings and reckless escalations on both sides that led to multiple fatalities. In the aftermath, there would be criminal trials and congressional hearings. But despite the attempts of government officials to conceal their mistakes, eventually, the truth would emerge

• 6:46Lindsay Graham?

  about what really happened at Ruby Ridge. This is episode 1: Visions of Armageddon.

• 6:56Lindsay Graham?

  It's 1969 at the US Army Base in Fort Bragg, North Carolina, at the height of the war in Vietnam. Randy Weaver strides through the sprawling complex, making his way from his barracks to the main administrative building. He's headed to a meeting in the office of his commanding officer, hoping for answers to a question that's been burning him up. At 21 years old, with a fresh crew cut, Weaver looks every bit the all-American soldier. And in many ways, he is. The Vietnam War is raging overseas and is growing unpopular at home. But unlike most of the other young men from his small town in Iowa, Weaver didn't wait to be drafted. Instead, he volunteered for service, eager to fulfill what he saw as his patriotic duty. He's yet to see any action,

• 7:41Lindsay Graham?

  but Weaver is proud of his service record. He's risen to the rank of sergeant, received special forces training, and qualified as a sharpshooter with a variety of weapons. Lately, though, he's been feeling disillusioned with the military. The fighting in Vietnam has been dragging on for four years with no end in sight, and there are anti-war protests raging in towns and cities all across the country. As Weaver watches the endless flag-draped coffins brought back to Fort Bragg, he started to wonder if those protesters may be right. But as Weaver approaches the administrative building, his thoughts are on something else. He recently took part in an on-base intelligence operation that led to illicit drugs being seized from his fellow soldiers.

• 8:23Lindsay Graham?

  Afterward, he was curious about what happened to the confiscated material, but he couldn't find any record of them being turned over as evidence. Weaver wants to believe there's an innocent explanation, but he can't let the issue rest. So now, as Weaver steps into the building, removes his hat, and knocks on the door of his commanding officer, he's hoping to finally get a straight answer. Inside the room, Weaver salutes and stands to attention in front of the desk. His captain remains seated, and with his eyes still on the paperwork in front of him, he invites Weaver to speak his mind. Weaver begins carefully, explaining he was there when the drugs were seized and saw the haul with his own eyes. He feels it's his duty to make sure the drugs ended up in the hands of the right people,

• 9:06Lindsay Graham?

  to be booked into evidence and eventually destroyed. The captain looks up from his papers, and then into Weaver's eyes. With an even tone, he thanks Weaver for his role in the operation, but says the matter's now closed, and no longer Weaver's concern. But Weaver pushes back. He explains that he stuck his neck out to help with the bust, and he likely made some enemies with his comrades in the process. So he feels like it's his right to know what the end result was. But the captain just tells Weaver he needs to let it go, and if he raises the issue again with anyone on base, he'll be disciplined. Weaver is then dismissed. And as he makes the long walk back across the base to his barracks, the truth hits him. His superiors in the operation never intended to turn over the drugs.

• 9:50Lindsay Graham?

  They kept them, and probably sold them to themselves. This corruption makes Weaver sick. These are men he's meant to follow into battle, to die for. But they're just a bunch of crooks hiding behind a uniform. At that moment, Weaver vows to never put any trust in them again. When his tour of duty is complete, he won't be re-enlisting. Today was the last draw.

• 10:15Lindsay Graham?

  A year later, in 1970, Randy Weaver is on leave from the Army and back in his hometown just outside Des Moines, Iowa. There, he begins courting a young local woman named Vicki Jordensen. For Randy, it's practically love at first sight. Vicki is a former high school cheerleader and one of the prettiest girls in town. But Randy also admires her religious devotion. She is especially close to her Mormon father, and the two are avid readers of the Book of Revelation with its account of Armageddon and a new world rising from the ashes of the old. Vicki fervently believes that white Christian Americans are God's chosen people. And as Randy falls in love with Vicki, he begins adopting that belief himself.

• 10:56Lindsay Graham?

  When Randy is discharged from the Army in 1971, he marries Vicki soon after. They settle into a comfortable, middle-class life in Iowa. And by the early 1980s, the Weavers have two daughters and a son, while Randy supports the family with a job at the local John Deere factory. And all through this time, the Weavers still hold their religious faith. As the years have passed, their beliefs have taken on a different flavor, though. The couple now believe evil forces are conspiring against them. The US government, the Soviet Union, the Illuminati, the Freemasons, they are all working together to destroy the Weavers. But they're not the only ones in Iowa who believe that white, American Christians are

• 11:37Lindsay Graham?

  God's chosen people, or that there are dark, outside forces threatening them. Randy and Vicki host a regular Bible study group in their living room, where they evangelize about the coming rapture and share their own stark visions with like-minded believers. And it's after one such meeting, when the group is left, that Randy sits Vicki down in their bedroom to tell her about an especially vivid vision he's had, one he wants to share privately with just her.

• 12:06Lindsay Graham?

  Randy takes Vicky's hand. He finds it hard to look her in the eyes, not quite knowing if she'll understand what he's seen. So, honey, you trust me, right? Of course. You know, I would only do what I believe was right for the family, what God wanted for us. Randy, what is it? The Lord's given me a vision. I've seen a home in the mountains. For us? Yeah, I see it so clearly, Vic. A two-story log cabin built with my own hands. And it's way up at the top of this mountain, almost among the clouds, where we can see anyone coming from miles away and defend ourselves and our children. But there are no mountains in Iowa. I know. We'd have to move away to find them. That's right. Maybe to the Dakotas or Montana, I don't know.

• 12:50Lindsay Graham?

  But it'd be a place for us to be safe in the final days. Randy looks at his wife, but she doesn't answer. Without a word, she rises from the bed and heads over to the dresser, and for a moment, Randy thinks he's made a terrible mistake, that he should have kept the vision to himself. But then Vicky returns to the bed with her Bible in her hand. I've had a vision too. She shows Randy a passage she's underlined. I know the date of the apocalypse, it's all in Scripture. The book of Daniel says, "Blessed is he that waiteth and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days." And then look here, in Revelation. "And the holy city shall tread underfoot forty in two months." When you add it up, forty-two months is almost exactly thirteen hundred days. It can't be a coincidence.

• 13:35Lindsay Graham?

  Three and a half years. God's telling me how much time we have left, and he's telling me where we need to be by then. I think our visions match. I think this is why God has brought us together.

• 13:48Lindsay Graham?

  Randy hugs his wife tight, the Bible clutch between them. He starts thinking about all the preparations they'll need to make for the move. There's so much to do. He needs to get started straight away.

• 14:02Lindsay Graham?

  As the Weavers begin their search for a new mountain home, they begin feeling less welcome in their existing one. Their Bible study group in Iowa attracts attention from the local police, who worry that a dangerous cult is forming in the area. That investigation doesn't go anywhere, but soon it's not just the cops who are taking a closer look at the Weavers. Not long after the police visit, a reporter stops by the Weavers' house to interview Randy about the Bible group. The journalist is eager for a juicy story about religious extremists, and Randy doesn't disappoint. In his interview, he describes his family as "Christian survivalists", and he outlines their plan to construct a remote compound where they'll be able to defend themselves from what he characterizes as "anti-Christian forces".

• 14:47Lindsay Graham?

  Randy refuses to be photographed for the story, so it's run with a provocative drawing of a Bible covered with bullets. The article causes more of a stir than Randy expected, and some of the family's friends and neighbors stop coming around to visit. That upsets the Weavers. The local police are already harassing them, but now the media is misrepresenting them, and their friends are abandoning them too. It all adds urgency to the family's preparations to leave, so Randy and Vicky begin selling most of their belongings and make trips to a nearby Amish community to learn how to live off the land. These preparations make Vicky's family increasingly concerned. They are realizing the couple's talk of fleeing to the mountains isn't just a fantasy. So one afternoon in early 1983,

• 15:32Lindsay Graham?

  Randy's father-in-law, David Jordison, stops by the Weaver home for a heart-to-heart talk. As Jordison parks his pickup truck on the curb outside, he takes a moment to collect his thoughts. Ricky and Randy's talk of Armageddon and their visions of a violent confrontation have him spooked, and he worries that he may be partly to blame. Jordensen is a religious man too. When Vicky was a child, he would preach to her about the Book of Revelation and its prophecies of Armageddon and the second coming of Jesus Christ. But as Vicky grew older, she came to see those texts as central to her life, and she began poring through the scriptures, looking for coded messages from God. And once she settled down with Randy, the couple just fed off each other's darkest instincts.

• 16:16Lindsay Graham?

  Now they appear serious about moving the family into some sort of compound in the mountains, and Jordensen is terrified about what will become of his three young grandchildren. He feels it's his duty to try and stop this madness before something terrible happens. Stepping out of the truck, Jordensen sees that the garage door is open, and Randy is inside, hunched over a workbench. He heads up the drive, but as Jordensen approaches, he's horrified to see what's on the bench. Randy is cleaning a vast collection of firearms. There must be a dozen in total, rifles and handguns, along with boxes of ammunition stacked high. Trying to remain polite, Jordensen asks Randy where he got all of these weapons. Randy explains that he's just been to a pawn shop.

• 16:59Lindsay Graham?

  He used the proceeds from selling the family's living room furniture and TV to stock up. He says he'll need them to defend their compound in the mountains. Jordensen gently suggests that Randy should put his faith in God to protect the family. A hunting rifle or two is fine, but this type of arsenal just seems dangerous, especially with children around. Randy brushes Jordensen off, explaining that God sent him to the military to be trained as a sharpshooter, preparing him to battle those who wish to family harm. The Lord helps those who help themselves, so Randy is really just following God's plan. Jordensen realizes he'll never be able to talk Randy out of his fascination with guns. So he tries a different approach, reminding Randy

• 17:41Lindsay Graham?

  that he has no idea how to build a home suitable for a family. Jordensen built the house Vicky grew up in, and it's a lot harder than it looks. It could take years, and the winters up in the mountains are unforgiving. Jordensen confides that he's worried about the little ones. They'll be lucky to survive. But Randy just grins, puts down the rifle he was cleaning, pats Jordison on the back. As soon as the family finds their plot of land, they'll give Jordison and Vicky's mother a call. They can help with the construction, because once again, God has made a path for them, blessing Randy with a father-in-law who knows everything about building a home. Jordison hesitates before replying. He's wary of offering his help, not wanting to give Randy any more encouragement.

• 18:23Lindsay Graham?

  Then he imagines his daughter and grandkids out there on top of some mountain in the middle of nowhere, freezing to death in the winter. So Jordison lets out a deep sigh and agrees to help Randy with the home. He just prays that once the family is settled, Randy and Vicky will come for their senses, put away the guns, and try to give his grandchildren a normal life.

• 18:49Speaker 01

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• 19:19Speaker 03

  I'm Gemma Whelan, and in the new season of The Spy Who, we tell the story of the original femme fatale, the spy who was Mata Hari. A famous dancer turned World War I secret agent, accused of seducing Allied officers to uncover their plans. But was she a temptress or a scapegoat for French failures? Follow The Spy Who now, wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also listen to the full season of The Spy Who Was Mata Hari, early and ad-free on Audible.

• 20:00Lindsay Graham?

  In March of 1983, Randy and Vicky Weaver complete the sale of their house in Iowa. They're now ready to head out in search of the new home Randy has seen in his visions, a compound in the mountains to ride out the fast approaching Armageddon. They pack their few remaining belongings into a pickup truck, trailer and moving van, and head northwest with their three young children. The Weavers don't know exactly where they're going. They only have a vague idea of finding a mountain somewhere in Montana or Idaho. But they travel with faith because Randy has recently had another vision, that they'll find their new home by the biblical date of the Feast of Trumpets, which falls on September 7th. The Weavers spend weeks scouring Montana for suitable land,

• 20:43Lindsay Graham?

  but find the prices too expensive even in the most remote areas. So they head further west into Idaho, hoping they'll have better luck there. They do discover that the land there is more affordable, but they still struggle to find a plot to match their vision. And as the weeks drag into months, the Weavers begin to have doubts they'll be able to find what they need by the date in Randy's vision. But then, on September 1st, just days before the Feast of Trumpets, they meet a young family at a motel in the small town of Bonners Ferry, Idaho. The family share the Weavers' belief in the coming end times, and they pass on a tip about a large piece of cheap land available nearby. A few days later, the Weavers follow the family over to the property to take a look.

• 21:28Lindsay Graham?

  With his wife and children all in the pickup truck, Randy follows the other family on the highway for several miles south of town. They turn off onto a steep dirt road leading up the mountain, and then onto an even more rugged old logging road as they continue to ascend. Feels like they're headed into the middle of nowhere, but as the Weavers bump their way up the mountain, they pray that their search is finally over. The two families stop when the logging road dead-ends into a clearing in the forest. As Randy helps his family out of the truck, the husband explains that they'll need to walk the rest of the way. The property is so remote, it's only accessible by foot, and is still several hundred yards straight uphill through the trees. Randy takes a look at the near 45-degree incline in front of him,

• 22:12Lindsay Graham?

  and realizes there's no way his three kids will be able to make it. So he leaves him with the wife and asks the husband to show him and Vicky the way. It's an arduous journey in the thin mountain air. After twenty minutes, the weavers are exhausted. As they take a moment to catch their breath, Randy asks the husband what this place is called. The man explains there are four distinct ridges in this section of the mountains, and this particular one overlooks Ruby Creek, so the locals call it Ruby Ridge. As they trek the final hundred yards up the hill, and the fifteen-acre property finally comes to the view, Randy's excitement grows. When they reach the top, the view is stunning. The husband points north, explaining that they can see the Canadian border from here.

• 22:56Lindsay Graham?

  As Randy looks around, he starts to feel a deep sense that he's been here before. It's like God took a photo of his vision and recreated it here on Ruby Ridge just for him. Randy grins as he puts his arm around Vicky's shoulder and tells her this is the place. They're finally home. Randy feels close to tears. His faith in God's plan and Vicky's faith in him have paid off in the most spectacular way. As the sun begins to set in the distance, Randy realizes it's just hours before the Feast of Trumpets. It's almost too perfect to believe.

• 23:35Lindsay Graham?

  The weavers quickly purchased the land on Ruby Ridge, and Randy gets to work on building their new home. He nails together scrap lumber into a basic structure at the top of the hill, but Randy quickly realizes he's in over his head. His initial vision called for a larger, two-story home, but now he downsizes. He chooses a new design that's about half the original size and includes no insulation or indoor plumbing. By the spring of 1984, after six months of hard work, the cabin is complete. It's only sturdy enough to last five or ten years, but with Vicky's prophesied date for Armageddon less than three years away, Randy figures it'll make do until then. In the meantime, with the help of Vicky's father, Randy begins adding other structures to the compound,

• 24:19Lindsay Graham?

  including an outhouse and a birthing shed for Vicky. As the Weavers settle in, they get to know other families nearby too. But their extreme views soon draw concern. One neighbor is so taken aback by Randy's rhetoric that he reports Randy to the Secret Service for making threats against President Ronald Reagan. This leads the Secret Service to visit Randy and Vicky at their home. The Service decides not to take any action, but the experience leaves Randy more paranoid about the government than ever, and more selective about who he talks to as well. There's one neighbor though who's sympathetic to Randy's beliefs. Frank Kumnick is a handyman from Florida who settled in the area with his wife. He and Randy become friends, and in July of 1986,

• 25:02Lindsay Graham?

  Kumnick invites Randy along to an event he thinks Randy might like. The neo-Nazi group Aryan Nations is hosting a conference about sixty miles south of Ruby Ridge at Hayden Lake, Idaho. Kumnick assures Randy he'll meet some like-minded people there, and Randy eagerly accepts the invitation. But Kumnick and Randy aren't the only ones taking an interest in the conference. In the past few years, the Northwest has seen a major surge of violent crime committed by far-right extremists. There have been armed robberies, and even the bombing of a synagogue in Boise. So federal law enforcement has made right-wing hate groups like Aryan Nations a priority. The FBI and ATF both have the leading members of these neo-Nazi organizations under surveillance,

• 25:46Lindsay Graham?

  and they've begun infiltrating the groups with informants. One of their men is Kenneth Fadeley. Fadeley's assignment is to get close to anyone associated with Aryan Nations who may be dangerous and pass on what he finds to the ATF. And under the false identity of gun-dealing biker Gus Machisono, he too travels to Hayden Lake to attend the conference.

• 26:10Lindsay Graham?

  Once he's there, in a break between meetings, Fadeley takes a seat at a picnic table outside the main building. Fadeley's around forty years old, with a bald head, draying beard, and a thick, sturdy frame. Sporting a black leather jacket with sewn-on gang patches and white supremacist symbols, he fits right in. And he recognizes several of the men milling about the compound. There's Richard Butler, founder of the Aryan Nations. William Pierce, author of the Turner Diaries novel, the most influential book in the modern white supremacist movement. And over by the barbecue is Bill Albers, imperial wizard of the American Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. Then Fadeley spots Frank Cumming, a local man he's met before. But he has a friend with him, someone Fadeley hasn't yet met.

• 26:54Lindsay Graham?

  So he beckons the both men over to join him. Hey Frank, how's it going? But Cumming just waves back. The other man comes over instead. Frank says he'll be right over. What, you wanna get Bill Albers autograph or something? Fadeley thrusts out his hand. Name's Gus Magisano. Weaver takes his hand. Randy Weaver. Well, good to meet you Randy. How do you know Frank? Uh, we're sort of neighbors. He's been good to us. Hard to find like-minded folks, you know? Uh, ain't that the truth. Well, you're with friends here. No masks, no muzzle, you know? We can speak our minds. That's good to hear. So what'd you think of the speakers today? I liked what they said about us white Christians needing a place of our own. That's certainly true. And I can see the feds working hand in glove with the banks, the Zionists, all of that.

• 27:38Lindsay Graham?

  But I, I, I take scripture seriously. I'm not interested in hurting anyone. I just want me and my family to be left alone. Well, now, I'm not a religious man myself Randy, but, but I respect a man who knows where he stands. Weaver doesn't seem like the type of guy planning to blow up a synagogue. So Fadeley is about to excuse himself when Weaver picks the conversation back up. Couldn't help but notice your, your vest there. You a biker Gus? Uh, sure am. You ride at all? No, no, never really got into it. Looks like a hell of a good time though. Well, maybe you and Frank could tag along on a ride sometime. I work as a mechanic, so I've, I've always got a couple of bikes going spare. Mechanic, huh? How, how's the pay around here for someone like that? I used to work in a John Deere factory. I know my way around an engine.

• 28:21Lindsay Graham?

  Well, you, you won't get rich, that's for sure. But I have something on the side that helps pay the bills. Just don't tell Uncle Sam. Of course not. But what do you do though? I deal guns. Really? Well, I've got about a dozen pieces myself. Certified as a sharpshooter in the army. No kidding? Yeah, I kept up with it. Shooting targets, deer, stuff like that. Just trying to stay sharp if the feds get any ideas about coming up on my land. Know what I mean? This piques Fadeley's interest, so he sits back down. Well, I sure do Randy, I sure do. You know what? We should stay in touch. Go shooting sometime. Well, that'd be great. Uh, I mean, I don't have a phone, but Frank can bring you up to the house. Give him a call. I'll make sure to do that. Nice to meet you Randy.

• 29:06Lindsay Graham?

  As the men go their separate ways, Fadli commits Randy Weaver's name to memory. He's going to include him in his next report to the ATF. Fadli hasn't had much success finding new leads at today's conference, but he's got a good feeling about this one.

• 29:25Speaker 04

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• 30:08Speaker 04

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• 30:25Speaker 01

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• 31:06Lindsay Graham?

  By the fall of 1989, Vicky Weaver's prophesied date for Armageddon has come and gone. The family is just as religious as ever, but with the world not falling into violence and destruction, they become a little less concerned with preparations for the final battle. Weavers begin to let their guard down a bit, venturing down from their mountain stronghold more often. And Randy continues attending Aryan Nations meetings, but by now he's fallen out with his friend Frank Kumnick after an argument over money. Randy is still in contact with a man he knows as Gus Magisono, however. He thinks Gus is a biker and gunrunner, not knowing that Magisono's real name is Kenneth Fadley, and that he's an undercover informant for the ATF.

• 31:48Lindsay Graham?

  In that capacity, Fadley doesn't consider Weaver to be especially dangerous, but he thinks he could be useful. Weaver has built up contacts throughout the neo-Nazi movement in the Northwest, and Fadley hopes Weaver can be his introduction to the more extreme and violent ones. Trying to cement their friendship, the two start talking about ways they can make money together in Fadley's illegal gun trade. And in October of 1989, the two men strike a deal in which Weaver sells a pair of sold-off shotguns to Fadley in exchange for a few hundred dollars. This is a federal crime, but Weaver is desperate for the money to feed his family, and Fadley sees the sale as potential leverage to force Weaver into working with the ATF at some point. But right now, both men seem happy with the transaction.

• 32:32Lindsay Graham?

  So a few weeks later, Weaver agrees to meet with Fadley again to discuss other potential sales. But by now, Fadley has more on his mind than just a gun deal. It's 9:00 a.m. on November 30, 1989. Fadley is in the driver's seat of his red Nissan parked outside of a motel 30 miles south of Ruby Ridge. As he waits for Randy Weaver to arrive, Fadley closes his eyes, mentally preparing to once again play the role of Gus Magisono. Fadley has a lot riding on this meeting. Weaver has promised to introduce him to a neo-Nazi group just over the state border in Montana. They're going to drive there together and discuss a few gun deals on the way. Hey Randy, you ready to hit the road?

• 33:17Lindsay Graham?

  No, I'm afraid not. I just don't have the time today. Oh, really? I mean, I came all this way. Yeah, I'm sorry for your trouble, but I'm really just here to talk business. You said we could do four more saw-offs for six hundred bucks total, right? Can you give me that cash up front today? I'm really hurting for it. Fadley quickly does some math. Counting the guns he's already bought from Weaver, that would be a thousand dollars. That's too much cash to give a guy who's apparently not going to give Fadley what he wants. So Fadley stalls. Well, see, there's a problem with my contact on the other end. He only gave me a hundred, which is what I still owe you from the first set of guns. I've got that for you here. Fadley takes a wad of twenty-dollar bills out of his breast pocket and hands them over.

• 34:00Lindsay Graham?

  Weaver slides them into his jeans and then lights up a cigarette. Well, thanks. You know, Gus, I've been wondering something. You've been up at the house, you've met my wife and kids. How come I've never met yours? If I could just meet them once, it would really put my mind at ease, make me more comfortable about introducing you to my friends in Montana, for sure. Fadley knows there's no way he's ever going to introduce this guy to his real family. But he plays along for now. Yeah, I mean, sure. Maybe you get yours and mine together for dinner sometime? How about that? But Weaver just shifts in his seat, fidgeting with his cigarette. Fadley can tell something's up. Hey Randy, everything all right with you? I was talking to a guy I know in Spokane the other day. He said you were bad news. What is he? Some disgruntled customer?

• 34:45Lindsay Graham?

  No, that's not it. Fadley's heart skips a beat. Well, what is? What's this guy's name? I'm not going to say, but we all know the feds are trying to infiltrate our meetings. And they wouldn't exactly come in uniform, would they? Oh, Randy, come on, what are you saying? That deal for the saw-offs was your idea. No, it wasn't. Yeah, it was. You approached me, and now I'm thinking, maybe there's a reason for that. Fadley can feel three years of work going down the drain. He scrambles to salvage what he can. Whoever told you I'm dirty is lying through his teeth, because I'm not a cop, and I can prove it. Cops wear wires, right? Go ahead, check me. See if I've got one on me. Go on. But Weaver just stares at him for a moment, before shaking his head. Nah, you, you wouldn't do that to my family, would you?

• 35:30Lindsay Graham?

  Send me to prison? Oh god, no. Come on, Randy. How long have we known each other? Well... Weaver looks torn. He opens the car door. Look, I'll, I'll see you around, Gus. Sorry we couldn't go to Montana.

• 35:45Lindsay Graham?

  As Weaver exits the car, Fadeley takes stock of what just happened. Their relationship seems to be on more solid ground than just a moment ago. But still, if Randy is talking with others about Fadeley being an informant, it may be too risky to ever make that trip to Montana. In fact, it may be too risky to keep posing as Gus Magisono at all.

• 36:09Lindsay Graham?

  The meeting in the parking lot proves to be Fadeley's last with Randy Weaver. Within a few months, the leadership of Aryan Nations also begins to suspect the man they know as Gus Magisono is an informant. They confront Fadeley and banish him from their group. With that, Fadeley's role as Gus comes to an end, and without much to show for it. It's a disappointment to Fadeley's supervisor at the ATF in Spokane. Herb Byerly concludes that the only crime Fadeley uncovered solid evidence for is Weaver's sale of two sawed-off shotguns, and that's a relatively minor offense. Still, Byerly is determined to infiltrate the Aryans, so he wonders if he can make use of it. In June 1990, Byerly grabs a colleague and heads over to Ruby Ridge to speak with Weaver.

• 36:53Lindsay Graham?

  Byerly hopes that he'll be able to leverage the illegal weapon sale to turn Weaver into an informant. But Byerly knows the Weavers will be wary of law enforcement, so to avoid a violent confrontation, they dress in disguise. The agents don the uniforms of US Forest Service workers and drive onto the Weaver property in a green Forest Service pickup truck. But when they arrive, they discover that Randy isn't there, so they head toward town in hopes of catching up with him. Soon they spot Randy's red flatbed truck in the parking lot of a motel on the highway. A moment later, they see Randy and Vicky emerge from one of the rooms smoking cigarettes. Byerly pulls into a spot nearby, rolls his window down, and calls Randy over. As Randy comes closer, Byerly rests his hand on the gun on his right hip,

• 37:37Lindsay Graham?

  wants to be ready for any trouble. But Randy just cheerfully asks if the forest agents are lost and offers his help. Vicky remains in the doorway of the motel room, just out of earshot, calmly dragging on her cigarette. Byerly relaxes and takes his hand off the gun. But as he looks Randy over, he notices Randy's belt buckle. It's embossed with what Byerly recognizes as the logo of the SS, the notorious Nazi paramilitary organization. Trying his best not to react, Byerly calmly introduces himself and his partner as ATF agents. Randy immediately leaps back away from the car. But Byerly reassures Randy they're not here to arrest him, they just want to talk.

• 38:18Lindsay Graham?

  Byerly explains that he has evidence that Randy has illegally manufactured and sold sawed-off shotguns. He pulls a Polaroid photo from his pocket, showing the guns in question, and holds it up for Randy to see. Next, Byerly says he also has an audio recording of Randy discussing the deal and offers to play it. With a shake of his head, Byerly adds that although there is not a warrant out for Randy's arrest just yet, a grand jury will likely be convened, and it doesn't look good for him. If he's convicted, there's a chance he could serve time. Byerly watches as Randy's face flushes. He knows this is his best opportunity to make a deal right now. So he explains that the ATF can make the case go away if Randy is willing to cooperate.

• 39:02Lindsay Graham?

  He won't have to set anyone up or wear a wire. He'll just need to provide a bit of intelligence, make a few trips to the Aryan Group of Montana, and tell the ATF what he sees. As Byerly waits for Randy's response, he's optimistic. He's just offered Randy an easy way to stay out of jail, a deal he thinks anyone with common sense would take. But Randy's face hardens, and he launches into a profanity-laden tirade. Telling them to go to hell, he turns his back on the agents and storms over to Vicky. With the meeting clearly at an end, Byerly puts the truck in drive and pulls out of the parking lot. And as he heads along the highway, he chuckles along with his partner. This guy is a different breed. It didn't have to be this way, but if Randy Weaver really wants to play hardball, then

• 39:46Lindsay Graham?

  they'll see him in court.

• 39:52Lindsay Graham?

  From Wondery, this is episode one of the Ruby Ridge standoff from American Scam. In our next episode, Randy Weaver continues to refuse to cooperate with the authorities as he hunkers down with his family on the mountain. The US Marshals are dispatched to bring him in.

• 40:15Lindsay Graham?

  American Scandal is only possible because of listeners like you, so thank you. And don't miss an episode. Be sure to follow American Scandal on Audible or wherever you get your podcasts. And Audible subscribers can binge new seasons of American Scandal early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts. And to find out more about me, including my other podcasts, my live show, the history tours I'm arranging, and all sorts of other things, go to historyishuman.com. That's historyishuman.com.

• 40:49Lindsay Graham?

  If you'd like to learn more about the events at Ruby Ridge, we recommend the books Every Knee Shall Bow by Jess Walter, Police State by Jerry Spence, and the PBS American Experience documentary, Ruby Ridge. This episode contains reenactments and dramatized details. And while in most cases, we can't know exactly what was said, all our dramatizations are based on historical research. American Scandal is hosted, edited, and executive produced by me, Lindsay Graham, for Airship. Audio editing by Trishin Paraga. Sound design by Gabriel Ghul. Supervising sound designer, Matthew Filler. Music by Thrawn. This episode is written and researched by Corey Metcalf. Fact checking by Alyssa Jung Perry. Managing producer, Emily Berth. Development by Stephanie Jens. Senior producers are Andy Beckerman

• 41:32Lindsay Graham?

  and Andy Herman. Executive producers are William Simpson for Airship, and Jenny Lauer Beckman, Marshall Louie, and Erin O'Flaherty for Wondery.

• 41:48Speaker 05

  Ghosts aren't real. At least, that's what journalist Tristan Redmond always believed. Sure, odd things happen in his childhood bedroom, but ultimately, he shrugged them off. Until he discovered that he wasn't alone, that everyone who lived there after him also had bizarre experiences they couldn't explain. And it gets even weirder. It just so happens that his wife's great-grandmother was murdered in the house next door. Is this ghost somehow connected to her murder? He decides to go where no son-in-law should, digging up a cold case and asking questions that nobody wants answered. Like, could his wife's great-grandfather have gotten away with the perfect crime? This is a podcast about family secrets, overwhelming coincidence, and the things that come back to haunt us.

• 42:33Speaker 05

  For the best bingeable series like Ghost Story, listen to the Audible True Crime Podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can get all episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.