Pod Insights American History Tellers The Progressive Era | In the Arena | 6 About this episode As president, Theodore Roosevelt pursued a progressive agenda. He worked to break up the monopolies of the Gilded Age, created a federal agency to inspect food and medicine, and fought to preserve public lands. But he believed everyone had a responsibility to fight for progress. In perhaps his most famous speech, he urged people to “get in the arena” and make a difference. Today, Lindsay is joined by Edward O’Keefe to talk about the roots of Roosevelt’s progressivism and his many achievements during his time in office. O’Keefe is CEO of the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library Foundation and author of The Loves of Theodore Roosevelt: The Women Who Created A President.
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0:00 Lindsay Graham? Audible subscribers can binge new seasons of American History Tellers early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.
0:24 Lindsay Graham? Imagine it's July 1896 in Oyster Bay, New York. Your brother Theodore Roosevelt is rowing you in the waters of a cove near his home Sagamore Hill. You tilt your parasol to block the morning sun as his oars slice through the shimmering water. His brow is furrowed and his jaw is clenched, but you can tell it's not just the strain of rowing. Oh, Theodore, you better tell me what's on your mind. He slows his stroke and breathes a heavy sigh. It's this job. I work from dawn till dusk at the police board, but every reform I attempt is thwarted. Then I'm forced to endure the hostility of Tammany Hall and the Republican bosses are hardly any better, let me tell you. If only I were the city's sole police commissioner, I could clean up the whole cursed place within a few years, but instead
1:09 Lindsay Graham? there's four of us. It's like trying to steer a rudderless ship. Rather, a ship with four rudders. Well, it sounds to me like you're an executive trapped in a bureaucratic role. Your brother snorts in agreement. And as you study his weary face, you're struck with an idea. You know, there may be a way out now that the presidential election is in full swing. If McKinley wins, as I expect he will, there will be changes, new appointments. You could escape New York for Washington, maybe get a role with real power. And how exactly do you suggest I endear myself to McKinley, a backed opponent in the primary? Well, that was a miscalculation, but perhaps not an insurmountable one. Theodore stops rowing and studies you. Yeah? What do you have in mind?
1:52 Lindsay Graham? You should invite Congressman Storer and his wife to Sagamore Hill. They're friends with McKinley, and if anyone could smooth the way... Oh, you're incorrigible. I'm strategic. Still, it's a big ask. And what role would McKinley even give me? He's certainly not going to put me in the cabinet. How about something in the military? Say, Assistant Secretary of the Navy. Your brother leans back in his seat, considering. Uh, that could work. I've always said that naval power should be the backbone of our national security. We should be doing everything we can to protect our strength in the Caribbean. Precisely, it suits you. And I'd like to see what we could do to get Spain out of Cuba. Yes, Assistant Secretary of the Navy, I do like the sound of that. Well, let's make it happen.
2:35 Lindsay Graham? Write to the Storers at once, and have them come to Sagamore Hill in August. Let them see you in your element, and you'll mend fences in no time. Well, it's a plan, and I like it. What would I do without you?
2:49 Lindsay Graham? You wink as he lifts the oars and resumes rowing. You know your brother wasn't meant for committee rooms and chasing signatures. He's a man of action, born to lead, and you're determined to chart the course of his ascent.
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3:35 Speaker 02 Hey, I'm David Brown, the host of Business Wars from Audible Originals. Indian Motorcycle and Harley-Davidson once defined American riding until Indian collapsed. Decades later, against the odds, one company dared to bring the iconic brand back, and the rivalry has returned. Listen to Business Wars on Audible or wherever you get your podcasts.
3:59 Lindsay Graham? From Wondery, I'm Lindsay Graham, and this is American History Tellers. Our history, your story.
4:21 Lindsay Graham? In the summer of 1896, Theodore Roosevelt confided in his older sister, Bami, describing his frustrations with his position as one of four commissioners on the New York City Board of Police. Bami was Roosevelt's most trusted adviser, and she encouraged him to pursue a role in the administration of Republican presidential candidate William McKinley. In the wake of McKinley's victory, Bami's counsel and strategic maneuvering helped Roosevelt secure an appointment as Assistant Secretary of the Navy. Roosevelt was a progressive who believed in government interventions at home and abroad, and in this role, he expanded US naval power and paved the way for a future war in Cuba. Bami helped orchestrate his rise in the federal government, and she would remain a close
5:03 Lindsay Graham? adviser for the next two decades of his political career. Here with me now to discuss Theodore Roosevelt's power of personality and the ways in which the women in his life influenced his progressivism is Ed O'Keefe, chief executive officer of the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library Foundation and author of The Loves of Theodore Roosevelt: The Women Who Created a President. Edward O'Keefe, welcome to American History Tellers.
5:30 Speaker 03 Good to be with you.
5:32 Lindsay Graham? So Theodore Roosevelt became president in 1901. How would you describe the economic and social climate in America at this time?
5:41 Speaker 03 Well, the Victorian Age is giving way to the Gilded Age. This is the era of Rockefeller and Morgan, Vanderbilt and Carnegie. It's a really rupturous and fulcrum-changing time in the nation. The whole nation is changing from an agrarian to an industrial society. You're seeing economic tumult. You're seeing changes in immigration, which is challenging the notion of what it is to be an American. Technology is completely uprooting American life. Theodore Roosevelt is born in 1858. There's no electricity, no cars, no air conditioning, yet he'll be the first president to fly
6:23 Speaker 03 in an airplane, to be in a submarine, the first president to go in a presidential motorcade. And so, you know, this is also a time when America is contemplating its place in the world, what America will be in relation to the rest of the world. As we say, the past is prologue. Everything that is happening then is, of course, happening again now.
6:43 Lindsay Graham? Let's rewind a bit and investigate his family background. What were they like? Did he come from a prosperous, wealthy family?
6:51 Speaker 03 Theodore Roosevelt grew up wealthy, but he was not of the league of Rockefeller or Morgan or Vanderbilt or Carnegie. His dad was primarily a philanthropist. He worked in the family business, which was Roosevelt and Sons. Roosevelt and Sons had gone back generations, but his grandfather, Theodore Roosevelt's grandfather, C V S Roosevelt, is what vaulted the family to a new level of wealth. C V S was actually one of the original directors of Chemical Bank. And Chemical Bank eventually bought Chase Manhattan, and Chase Manhattan became Chase. So if you go to a Chase bank to this day, you are actually banking or working with an organization
7:34 Speaker 03 that was founded in part by Theodore Roosevelt's grandfather. So they were in the import-export business. They did a lot of stained glass and luxury goods for the wealthiest families in primarily New York, but throughout America. And then that jump into investment banking really changed the fortunes of the Roosevelt family. So Theodore Roosevelt's father has the luxury of really working primarily as a philanthropist. He's the co-founder of the American Museum of Natural History. He's the founder of the first orthopedic hospital in New York, and he's one of the founders of the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Theodore Roosevelt, at 10 years old, witnesses his father signing the Charter for the American Museum of Natural History. But his father, through his philanthropy,
8:19 Speaker 03 is exposing him to the newsboys lodging house, the orphans who are working primarily in the newspaper business. He's seen his father found these institutions like the American Museum of Natural History and the Met, and a hospital for those who don't have the ability to care for themselves or have a particular disability with regard to orthopedics. So he's from a privileged class, but he's getting exposure to worlds he doesn't live in.
8:47 Lindsay Graham? So that's his family and how perhaps that unique dynamic influenced him as he was growing up. But I'm also interested, as a kind of a topic of your book, how did his wife's family influence him?
8:59 Speaker 03 Alice Hathaway Lee is the dynamic changing moment in Theodore Roosevelt's progressivism. Alice Hathaway Lee Theodore Roosevelt met while he was at Harvard. He had unfortunately experienced the passing of his father. His father died of cancer relatively young at age 46. Theodore Roosevelt was 20 years old at the time. And that same year, just a few months after his father died, he broke up with his long-term girlfriend Edith Careau, who will come back into the picture later. But at the moment, it was absolutely devastating. He loses his father. He loses his girlfriend. In the course of a couple of months in 1878,
9:40 Speaker 03 he goes back to Harvard in his sophomore year, and there he meets Alice Hathaway Lee. She is beautiful. She is beguiling. She comes from one of the most prominent Boston Brahmin families. If you know the old Boston toast, and this is good old Boston, the home of the bean and the cod, where the lols talk only to the cabots, and the cabots talk only to God. She's a cabot. She's elusive and beautiful and comes from this progressive, reform-minded family. The Lees and the Saltonstalls and the cabots are talking politics, but not just any type of politics. They're talking reform politics. So influential is Alice
10:20 Speaker 03 in T.R.'s Outlook that his senior thesis at Harvard is an effusive, all-out call for equal rights for women. In 1880, Theodore Roosevelt writes that women should have the right to vote. That's 40 years before suffrage. He endorses women becoming lawyers, doctors, and judges. He says that women should not necessarily take their husband's name upon marriage. I mean, these are ideas that are far, far ahead of their time. And it's all really got that root in Alice Hathaway Lee and this progressive, reform-minded family around which Theodore Roosevelt is surrounded in college.
10:59 Lindsay Graham? So in 1880, he writes a senior thesis that shows strong progressive flavors. And in 1901, he becomes president. But let's investigate that 21-year period in between. How did his progressive leanings begin to evolve in his public service and political careers? He was a New York Assemblyman.
11:17 Speaker 03 Yes, in 1881 Theodore Roosevelt is elected to the New York State Assembly. He was a Republican. He came from what was known as the Silk Stocking District. So not much was expected of this particular Republican. But when he got to Albany, he saw bribery. He saw the power of the boss system and the political machine. He was actually brought to one of the tenement houses by one of his fellow Assemblymen when he opposed a bill at first to ban the making of cigars in private homes. And he saw, he witnessed these young children working with their families, rolling cigars. And it changed his outlook.
12:02 Speaker 03 He began to see a different side of New York City. He wasn't a radical reformer as an Assemblyman, but he was beginning to see the challenges that the city and the state were facing. And it really kind of extended that spark that had been lit by the Lees, Cabots and Saltonstalls, that he was running against the system. He was running as a reformer to really try to see change, to bring regulation and rules and order and some role for government between capital and commerce and protection of the public good and the people.
12:40 Lindsay Graham? So we can roll forward a few years then, and Teddy Roosevelt becomes Police Commissioner of New York City. How did his reform-minded progressivism adapt to this new role?
12:50 Speaker 03 So at that point, there wasn't just one Police Commissioner. There was a number of them. There would be three or four at any given time. And so Theodore Roosevelt didn't have the power to act exclusively, but what he could do through the help of his sister, Bami, who introduced him to a prominent journalist, Richard Harding Davis, was bring attention to the corruption that just completely corroded the New York Public Police at that time. He would go on night rambles. And bring Richard Harding Davis with him so he could catch the officers who were sleeping on the job, who were in saloons, making trouble, who were not following any
13:31 Speaker 03 sort of the systems and order. And of course, this caused a huge ruckus. He also very controversially enforced the Sunday closing laws. He didn't allow the service of alcohol on Sundays, which was technically illegal, but everyone ignored it because that was the one day a week that the laborers, the working class, had off. But because it was against the law, Theodore Roosevelt enforced it. It did not make him a very popular figure, but it was one of those examples where he said, we need to have standards and systems and practices for the protection of the people. Now, in these first few positions of authority that
14:12 Speaker 03 he has, he's always running against the grain. He's not going to allow corruption. He's not going to allow the political bosses of the machine to take advantage of the people. And this is all, of course, leading up to when he'll really emerge as governor, vice president and president, and make change for the nation.
14:31 Lindsay Graham? I'm glad you mentioned this because governor and vice president, well, let's stick with governor for the moment. This is a position that he achieved despite going against the grain of the existing entrenched political machinery. How does he achieve that?
14:46 Speaker 03 He was so famous, they couldn't stop him. He had made the charge of San Juan Heights in the Spanish-American War. How did he become famous? Richard Harding Davis, the journalist that would follow him on the night rambles as police commissioner, shows up again. He catalogs the Rough Riders and their daring heroics in Cuba. T R. Dispatches for Cuba in May of 1898. By November of that year, he's elected governor. In the space of six months, what he called his crowded hour, he goes from a assistant secretary of the Navy who resigns his position. Everybody thinks he's insane for doing so. He's lost his mind. He's going to leave.
15:30 Speaker 03 This government post and join a ragtag group of cowboys, ranchers, professional tennis players. I mean, it was the combination of the highest class and the lowest class fighting together. And from that experience, he's almost unstoppable. The bosses are very, very wary of him. He's always been an agitator and a reformer. Can they control him as governor? And think about this, when TR comes into the office, he's elected in 1898. So it's around 60 to 70 million in the country. The top 9% were responsible for 71% of the wealth. So it's a boiling, roiling kind of time where the population
16:13 Speaker 03 is out of sync with where the wealth of the nation is held. Corporations hold all the power. And it was an extraordinarily close election, despite Theodore Roosevelt's popularity and celebrity, he only won by 18,000 votes.
16:29 Lindsay Graham? So he squeaks by and takes a seat as governor. How does he do?
16:34 Speaker 03 Well, he is indeed what the bosses feared. He is a reform minded governor. For instance, in the winter in New York, he repurposes the armories to house the homeless. He uses regulation and tax policy to his advantage. TR gets behind a bill in the New York legislature as governor that will limit the duration and tax the profits of corporations that control the subways, the bridges and the tunnels. The Republican bosses and the system, the political machine hates this. They call him the boy governor. And one of his legislators actually comes to the governor and says of Boss Platt, who controls the Republican machine, he'll get you soon.
17:17 Lindsay Graham? The entrenched party machinery strikes back, however, in an unusual maneuver by promoting him?
17:24 Speaker 03 They kick him upstairs. The best that they could do was to say, you know what? We do not support Governor Roosevelt running for reelection. We need to make him vice president. Mark Hanna is a senator from Ohio. He's very close to William McKinley, the president who's standing for reelection. And interestingly, there wouldn't even be a spot on the ticket, except for the death of the sitting vice president, Hobart. And suddenly, there's a place to stick TR, this troublemaker from New York. Hanna says to McKinley, don't you understand, President McKinley? If you put Roosevelt on the ticket, there will be one life between the presidency and this madman.
18:06 Speaker 03 When McKinley finally caves and agrees to take TR on the ticket, because he's young, he's dynamic, it's Hanna who actually says to the President of the United States, William McKinley, your duty to the country is to live for the next four years.
18:27 Speaker 02 For decades, two legendary brands fought for the hearts of American bikers, Indian Motorcycle and Harley-Davidson. The battle looked a lot like Coke versus Pepsi or Ford versus Chevy, but tastes changed and Indian didn't adapt fast enough. The icon all but died. Then came the Con Men, the Dreamers, a string of spectacular failures that kept Indian in the grave, until one company finally got it right. This is the story of an improbable revival and the reignition of an old rivalry. Hey, I'm David Brown, the host of the podcast Business Wars. And every season, we bring you the true stories behind the companies that shape our world. Indian's new owners are going all in, but an existential crisis looms. Can Indian and Harley recruit enough younger riders to survive?
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19:59 Lindsay Graham? Roosevelt becomes president in 1901 upon the assassination of President McKinley, but he was re-elected in his own right in 1904. Let's talk about some of the reforms he pursued, having his own mandate. We, at this time, did not have federal food, drug, or meat inspection laws. So, share with us a little bit about how President Roosevelt advocated for these.
20:20 Speaker 03 Well, he comes to the presidency, as you said, Lindsay, upon the assassination of William McKinley. Roosevelt says, "I will carry out the administration of William McKinley." Well, he does that for about 30 seconds. He goes completely in the opposite direction of anything McKinley had outlined and begins to advocate a really, truly reform-minded presidency. There are no protections for food and drug. This is the time when you have soothsayers medicating with syrups for colicky babies or morphine and cocaine. I mean, when Theodore Roosevelt is in a terrible accident as president, he is prescribed cocaine as the cure. So, if you ever wondered if the President of the United States has done cocaine, the
21:05 Speaker 03 answer is yes. It was Theodore Roosevelt while recovering from a disastrous accident. There's no vaccine mandates. There's no meatpacking industry standards. There's really none of the protections that exist today. They all begin at this moment of reform in TR's presidency.
21:23 Lindsay Graham? And how did he specifically advocate for them? How did he use the power of the presidency?
21:29 Speaker 03 Well, let's take the Northern Securities antitrust case, for instance. Basically, what was happening is the railroads were consolidating, and they were naturally bringing higher rights. There was poorer service for more money. And so, TR uses the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890, which, to be fair, prior presidents had brought cases on. Under the antitrust act, but they'd never succeeded. And Theodore Roosevelt, for the first time in American history, is successful. He blocks the merger of a major railroad because he fears that the merger will actually create a monopoly and it will not lead to better service or better prices for the American people. Just so there's context, right?
22:13 Speaker 03 Now, we look back on it and say, well, of course, I mean, the government routinely brings antitrust cases for anti-monopoly purposes. They've done so throughout American history. Well, that was the first. Stocks fell. They called Theodore Roosevelt a financial rough rider. There were fistfights on the Senate floor over this policy. It was extraordinarily controversial. And then he proceeded to do it again and again. So, once it was successful on the railroads, he attacked the beef trust. He attacked the sugar trust. He attacked any monopoly that existed. And then, let's use the other example from very early in his presidency, the anthracite coal strike. So, at this time in 1902, 1903, coal is king.
22:55 Speaker 03 That is what powers houses, locomotives, ships, the processes that make steel. The anthracite coal strike happens in Pennsylvania. Workers wanted higher wages, safer conditions, and a shorter workday. They had about a 10-hour workday and they would work six days a week, sometimes even seven days or 10 to 14 days in a row. The mine-owning railroad was forced to come to the table at the, I would say invitation, but really order of Theodore Roosevelt to meet with union leaders in the White House. Again, this is something that pretty routinely happens. It's now expected of the President of the United States, whether they're a Republican or a Democrat.
23:37 Speaker 03 If there's a major strike, if they don't intervene, it's seen as their inaction. Theodore Roosevelt is the very first president to intervene in a labor strike and thereafter resets the relationship between a president, labor, and corporations. In 1902, you have 1.4 million union members. By 1903, you have 700,000 more because suddenly, the people see a president who recognizes their interests, not just those who control the economy.
24:07 Lindsay Graham? I'm glad you brought the people up. Clearly Teddy Roosevelt is using his executive power in expansive new ways. But one of his most famous slogans is that the presidency is a bully pulpit. This indicates that he's speaking to an audience, and I assume that audience is the American people. What is the bully pulpit and how did he use it?
24:26 Speaker 03 Well, it's an invention of Theodore Roosevelt. It's basically the news cycle. I don't know that we can claim that the news cycle exists any longer with the explosion of the internet, but Theodore Roosevelt in his time understood that if he, for instance, proclaimed something on a Sunday, it would dominate the papers on a Monday and it would be the source of conversation all week long. He used his position and power as the president to understand how to communicate directly to the people. Theodore Roosevelt understood the cadence and pace of news and newspapers, and he had a lot of help, too.
25:08 Speaker 03 His sister Connie, she actually acted almost as his press secretary, a role that didn't exist at the time, but she knew that if the American people fell in love with the Roosevelt family, he would be far more successful in accomplishing his policies. So she would slip stories to the press of the antics going on at the White House. I mean Theodore Roosevelt is an avatar of a new age. He's 42 years old, the youngest president in American history to this day, and he's got six kids, three of whom are growing up in the White House, one of whom Quentin is, you know, a fairly young boy. They're bringing Algonquin the pony into the White House and letting him go up the elevator to the second floor.
25:53 Speaker 03 So the people are fascinated by this incredibly active, rambunctious, energetic family, and that's the bully pulpit. Theodore Roosevelt issued more executive orders in his presidency than every single president who preceded him combined. So he understood the power of an executive, the power of the bully pulpit, the power of going directly to the people, having them fall in love with you and your family as people, and dominating the news cycle, not allowing anybody else to get a lion's share of the attention so he could drive his agenda forward.
26:30 Lindsay Graham? It's easy to characterize Theodore Roosevelt as a hard-charging, rugged individualist who's able to accomplish enormous things all by the power of his own will. Your book, though, explores the influence of the women in his family and how he ran things by them and got their consult and confidence. Give us a sense of who influenced him during these years.
26:49 Speaker 03 Well, The Loves of Theodore Roosevelt argues that the most masculine president in the American memory, Theodore Roosevelt, was actually the product of unsung and extraordinary women. Middy, his mother, is an unsung influence in his life. She's actually the source of the books that he reads as a child, the McGuffey readers that contain phrases like the African proverb, "Speak softly and carry a big stick." That comes from the books his mother read to him as a child. His first wife, Alice, we talked about her reform-minded family, what they did to inform his progressive outlook. His second wife, Edith, who was his childhood sweetheart and later comes back after the death of Alice, she's basically his partner. She's a better judge of character.
27:34 Speaker 03 She sees things around the political corners that TR doesn't necessarily see. She's uniformly seen as a better compass by which to navigate by. But then you get to Bami. TR's older sister was sort of like what Robert F. Kennedy was to John F. Kennedy. TR ran every major decision past Bami. She advised him on matters of state. Her home at 1733 N Street, just around the corner from the White House, was known in the press as the Little White House. She was so influential that later Theodore Roosevelt's daughter, Alice, actually said that had Bami been a man, that she, not Theodore Roosevelt, would have been president of the United States.
28:16 Speaker 03 And Eleanor Roosevelt is asked about this, quote, in the 1950s, after she's been first lady and her husband, FDR, has died. Eleanor Roosevelt agrees that had Bami been a man, had she lived 100 years later, she, not Theodore Roosevelt, would have been president of the United States. That gives you some sense of how these extraordinary women in TR's life propelled him forward towards success.
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29:51 Lindsay Graham? One of the things Theodore Roosevelt is perhaps best known for are his efforts in conservation. During his presidency, he protected over 200 million acres of public land. Where did this love of nature come from?
30:04 Speaker 03 From the Badlands of North Dakota and his childhood, when he was suffering from asthma and had to live a life of the mind in books and taxidermy. T.R. bought into cattle in North Dakota. He lived there as a rancher and a cowboy for the better part of two years after the death of his first wife, Alice, and his mother, Midi, on the same day in the same house. They died on February 14th, 1884, Valentine's Day. Theodore wrote an ex in his diary, "The light has gone out of my life." He didn't stand for reelection to the New York State Assembly, and here he goes to the nature of the Badlands. He was depressed. He was dejected.
30:49 Speaker 03 He didn't know what he was going to do next in his life. And he Lived what he later called the strenuous life. The Elkhorn Ranch, which is Theodore Roosevelt's private ranch, which today is a part of Theodore Roosevelt National Park, is known as the cradle of conservation because it is thought that it is here in the beauty of the Badlands. He discovered and deepened his conservation ethos. He had seen the degradation of species as he traveled from east to west. He understood that the biodiversity of nature was being trampled by rampant commercialism. And he really thought that there was something that needed to be done if he ever had the power to do it. And once he did, boy, did he make a difference.
31:34 Speaker 03 I mean, 230 million acres of land conserved, 150 national forests, the creation of the U.S. Forest Service, 51 bird preserves, 18 national monuments, five national parks, and four national game preserves. Mic drop. That is an environmental and conservation record that has never been equaled. He was the conservation president because he felt that he needed to look out 100 years into the future and protect the lands, the birds, the species for not just our children, but our children's children. And it was not a popular view at the time. I mean, when he introduced his first notions of conservation, the Speaker of the House said,
32:19 Speaker 03 "There will not be one dime for scenery." I mean, there was no counterargument to conservation because as a concept, particularly in a political sense, there was no thought about it.
32:30 Lindsay Graham? We did a seven-episode series, actually, on America's national parks a few years back. And in that series, one of my favorite stories was when naturalist John Muir invited Teddy Roosevelt to go camping in Yosemite National Park. Can you tell us about that trip?
32:47 Speaker 03 Well, think about this, right? It's extraordinary. Theodore Roosevelt, the sitting president of the United States, takes a tour of the western states in 1903. He traveled by railroad, went through 25 states over nine weeks. He stopped at Yellowstone to hike and camp. He actually went skiing with John Burroughs, which is one of my favorite stories. John Burroughs was an American naturalist and an essayist who he called "Oom John" because of the kind of centeredness and stillness and amazing qualities that John Burroughs exuded. So he had this sense of humor too. "Oom John." And so they were out skiing and John Burroughs does a header and Teddy Roosevelt comes by, sort of laughs at John Burroughs. And as he's laughing at him because he's done a header, then TR flips over and does
33:32 Speaker 03 a header in skiing. And then John's laughing at him. So I just, I picture this incredible scene of the president of the United States taking the time to be out in nature, exploring with these naturalists. And then he continues on to California where he meets naturalist John Muir. And Muir introduces him to the beautiful Mariposa Grove and the sequoias and what he will later protect, the redwoods of California. He goes camping for three days and sleeps beneath the stars and by campfire with John Muir. This is impossible to imagine in a modern context. I think it was President Obama who would reflect upon the freedom that TR had to take
34:14 Speaker 03 time away to think and be in nature and to look up at the stars and be influenced by these incredible thinkers of the time. It's really pretty extraordinary when you think about the progression of an ideal and the birth of conservationism, which also had its connection to progressivism because, of course, this is for the people. This is the protection of the lands, the development of other lands for the enjoyment of all the people. That is something Theodore Roosevelt understood, that while Europe may have its grand cathedrals and its thousands of years of history, its kings and its queens, the cathedrals of the United States were in nature.
34:55 Speaker 03 And if we didn't protect them, they would be ruined forever and they deserve and belong to all the people.
35:02 Lindsay Graham? I believe we have a quote from Teddy Roosevelt that would fit in well here, showing us how he thought about the value of public lands. Could you read it for us?
35:10 Speaker 03 Absolutely. "It is also vandalism wantonly to destroy or to permit the destruction of what is beautiful in nature, whether it be a cliff, a forest, or a species of mammal or bird. Here in the United States, we turn our rivers and streams into sewers and dumping grounds. We pollute the air, we destroy forests, and exterminate fishes, birds, and mammals, not to speak of vulgarizing charming landscapes with hideous advertisements. But at last, it looks as if our people are awakening."
35:44 Lindsay Graham? So Roosevelt was not just a proponent of conservation. He was also an avid hunter and collector of specimens. These seem at first to be irreconcilable. How should we think about these things?
35:56 Speaker 03 Well, certainly, I think it's true to this day that some of the greatest conservationists are hunters. And Theodore Roosevelt, remember, began his life as a child who was so sick with asthma he couldn't go out and explore the great outdoors. He lived his life in the mind through books and through taxidermy. And his greatest aspiration at that point was to become a natural scientist. When he went to Harvard, I mean, he's not the Theodore Roosevelt that you know from Mount Rushmore. He was a geeky naturalist in whose wake formaldehyde lingered. What he wanted to do was to live a life in nature and science.
36:34 Speaker 03 And because of meeting Alice and that progressive Lee Saltonstall and Cabot Lee family, it changed the direction of his professional ambition. Alice was in first class, and they were not issuing any first-class tickets in natural science. And, you know, some of the biggest misunderstanding of T R comes around hunting. He hunted for the purposes of scientific exploration. The African expedition, for instance, to East Africa, the specimens and series that were collected at the time are still used to this day to ...inform the biodiversity of parts of East Africa.
37:16 Speaker 03 And the reason he would often hunt so much is that in order to understand a species, you would have to have a collection in order to take it back and examine it. Now, obviously, that has changed, but in TR's time, what he was doing was living out his dream as a naturalist and a scientist.
37:37 Lindsay Graham? It's easy to understand, I think, why Theodore Roosevelt is such a compelling figure, his charm, his wit, his progressive politics. He's a force of nature. But what is it about this man and his legacy that captivates you, so much so that you are now the CEO of the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library Foundation? What does he mean today?
37:57 Speaker 03 So Theodore Roosevelt has given up power voluntarily. He's gone in self-exile to Africa on an expedition for nearly a year, and now he's making his way back from Africa to the United States. He travels through Europe, and on April 23, 1910, he's invited to speak at the Sorbonne in Paris, and he delivers Citizenship in a Republic, which is more famously known today as the "In the Arena" speech. He says, "It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stubbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better.
38:37 Speaker 03 The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who airs, who comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming." Theodore Roosevelt is remarkably culturally relevant for someone who died in 1919. I mean, LeBron James puts "in the arena" on his shoes before every game. Miley Cyrus has the "in the arena" speech tattooed on her forearm. I mean, Brene Brown's entire philosophy of vulnerability is based on the resilience of hearing that famous "in the arena" speech. You know, it's not the critic that counts, but the man and today, the woman who is in the arena, making a difference. I mean, I think that the lesson of TR's life...
39:22 Speaker 03 Is that you are not always going to succeed. You are not always going to fail. But if you're not in the fight, you can't make a difference. And whatever change you believe you can make in the world, you need to be in the arena. That is why we're building the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library in Madora, North Dakota, in the Badlands. We're opening July 4th, 2026, the 250th anniversary of America, because we want to invite people to come to hike, to bike, to go on horseback, to be out in nature. We're TR recovered and to get in the arena of the cause they most believe in. In TR's time, it was some of the basic protections that we all continue to enjoy today. But today, you need to look ahead 100 years into the future
40:05 Speaker 03 like TR did and see what tomorrow needs today by your leadership, your involvement, getting in the arena.
40:13 Lindsay Graham? Well, Ed O'Keefe, congratulations and good luck on the opening of the library. And thank you so much for joining me on American History Tellers.
40:20 Speaker 03 It was my pleasure, Lindsay. Good to be with you.
40:22 Lindsay Graham? That was my conversation with Ed O'Keefe. His book, The Loves of Theodore Roosevelt, The Women Who Created a President, is available now from Simon & Schuster. The Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library is scheduled to open in Madora, North Dakota on July 4th, 2026.
40:40 Lindsay Graham? From Wondery, this is the sixth and final episode of our series on the progressive era for American History Tellers. In our next season, in the fall of 1906, a mysterious outbreak of typhoid fever strikes a wealthy New York family vacationing in Oyster Bay, Long Island. Suspicion quickly falls on the family's Irish cook, who had vanished after the first cases emerged. The ensuing hunt leads city officials on a frustrating, winding path through New York in their effort to find Typhoid Mary.
41:13 Lindsay Graham? American History Tellers is only possible because of listeners like you, so thank you. And don't miss an episode. Be sure to follow American History Tellers on Audible or wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge new seasons of American History Tellers early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts. And to find out more about me, including my other podcasts, my live show, the history tours I'm arranging, and all sorts of other things, go to historyishuman.com. That's historyishuman.com.
41:49 Lindsay Graham? American History Tellers is hosted, edited, and executive produced by me, Lindsey Grand for Airship. Sound design by Molly Bach. Supervising sound designer, Matthew Filler. Music by Throm. Additional writing by Ellie Stanton. This episode was produced by Polly Stryker and Alida Rosansky. Our senior interview producer is Peter Arcuni. Managing producer, Desi Blaylock. Senior managing producer is Callum Pluse. Senior producer, Andy Herman. Executive producers are Jenny Lauer Beckman, Marshall Louis, and Aaron O'Flaherty for Wondery.
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