Pod Insights American Alchemy What I Learned From Joe Rogan (ft. Young Jamie and Viktor Hovland) About this episode I reflect on my appearance on Joe Rogan while golfing with Young Jamie and Viktor Hovland. Their conversation dives deep into UFOs, ancient civilizations, and the secrets of the pyramids. They unpack the physics of anomalous objects, the shifting media narratives, and the hidden legacy of Harold Malmgren—all while questioning what Hollywood and black-budget R&D programs aren’t telling us.
| Young Jamie |
Instagram ➤https://www.instagram.com/jamievernon/
| Viktor Hovland |
Instagram ➤ https://www.instagram.com/viktor_hovland/
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Chapters
00:00 The Fascination with UFOs
02:57 Exploring Ancient Civilizations and the Pyramids
05:57 The Quest for Evidence and Truth
09:07 Conspiracy Theories and Government Secrecy
11:57 Debating History and Beliefs
16:35 Unveiling Harold Malmgren's Controversial Legacy
19:32 The Complexity of Advanced Technologies and Their Origins
22:41 Exploring the Physics of Anomalous Objects
25:21 The Intersection of Science, Intelligence, and UFOs
29:59 Hollywood's Influence on UFO Narratives
35:02 The Secrets of Advanced Research and Development
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.
0:34 Jesse Michels? What's up, everybody? We have a very special show for you today. Apparently, dreams do come true. I achieved one of mine when I went on the Joe Rogan Experience. The episode is live today. I don't really get nervous for anything, but I was pretty nervous for this. I've been a super fan of Joe's show for the last decade, and so it was tough to contain myself and lay low. When, leading up to the episode, he'd been texting me, talking about binging our show, American Alchemy, and loving it. Joe is a hero of mine. I think he's a strong force for good and free thought, and he showed a ton of courage under fire during the pandemic. So saying that this was an honor would be a massive understatement.
1:16 Jesse Michels? On the show, we talk about all sorts of crazy shit, from artificial intelligence. It doesn't matter whether AGI, you know, hits some like perfectly Turing-passable point, you're gonna get this, like, these weird cult-like dynamics. Like, the meta-sociological thing is you're gonna get, like, religions dedicated to AI. Oh, for sure. Oh, for sure. Without a doubt, there'll be people worshiping certain branches of AI. To secret science, and I think there is technology that is black technology and science that is black science. And then I think there's stuff out in the open. And so I think this has already maybe happened in certain contexts and, you know, super-secret Department of Energy facilities, which I think it's crazy to say that that hasn't happened. You're saying that it only happened with the Manhattan Project and it hasn't happened since? That's insane. There is black science.
2:01 Jesse Michels? To exotic propulsion. Gravity is out here hanging out by itself on an island. So you have the standard model, quantum field theory, and you have Einstein's theory of gravity. And the two are not reconcilable. It is my belief that if you were to reconcile them, you could create exotic propulsion. To UFOs. I saw a thing that... Looked like a fucking school bus. It looked like, like no visible propulsion, this like sort of low humming noise or whatever. It was maybe 50, 60, 70 feet high, like above the tree, right above the treetops. Those bizarre Nazca tridactyl mummies that I flew down to Peru to see. What do you think is going on there? They break my brain. I don't want to be overly sensationalist about this.
2:46 Jesse Michels? If it's a hoax, it's the best hoax ever. And finally, the legendary Thomas Townsend Brown. Townsend Brown's biographer has him on record in a, in a phone call that is recorded, saying the tests were very tricky, but in the end, we got it to work. And he's on his deathbed. But before you go and watch that, just wait a second. We have a very special episode for you today. Before going on Joe's show, I had already been friends with his producer, young Jamie. Jamie is an awesome guy. He knows a ton about UFOs and is down some pretty crazy rabbit holes. So naturally we hit it off. He's also a huge golf fan. Serendipitously, one of the best golfers in the world, Viktor Hovland, reached out to me last year because he's a huge fan of American alchemy
3:30 Jesse Michels? and happened to be coming to Austin in late April. Victor is the absolute man. Outside of being a top 10 golfer in the world, the sensation from Norway is humble, down to earth and super smart. In his spare time, he's reading Plato and learning about UFOs. Let's all root for him in the US Open this month. So Jamie, Victor and I did a little golfing at Barton Pigeon Putt when Victor was in town. They watched me absolutely embarrass myself as we discuss a bunch of trippy, fun topics. Without further ado, please enjoy this week's amazing American alchemists, Jamie Vernon and Viktor Hovland. Oh, and one more thing, we just launched maybe the coolest merch line ever, which I'll link in the description. I mean, just look at these designs.
4:13 Jesse Michels? We have our cowboy UFO tee and our atomic space age tee. So go grab those and watch my episode with Joe Rogan, but not before watching this amazing special episode of American alchemy.
4:26 Jesse Michels? What got you into UFOs?
4:27 Speaker 02 Dude, it's cool. Yeah.
4:29 Jesse Michels? Oh no. There's like a lot of evidence there crashes and that they have anomalous stuff.
4:34 Speaker 03 How much and how deep it goes is kind of the question.
4:36 Speaker 02 What's the deal about the pyramids?
4:38 Jesse Michels? What was I doing wrong before? Like I'd hit it?
4:41 Speaker 02 Where do we start?
4:44 Speaker 02 Summon the egg.
4:45 Jesse Michels? Summon the egg.
4:45 Speaker 02 Okay.
4:46 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
4:46 Speaker 03 Multiple different factions.
4:48 Jesse Michels? He has some conspiracy theories.
4:49 Speaker 02 Okay.
4:50 Speaker 03 I don't even know if they're conspiracies.
4:53 Speaker 03 Never thought about it till right now. I might want to call my phone.
4:56 Speaker 02 Pull it up, Jamie.
5:00 Jesse Michels? He's like, fuck you.
5:23 Speaker 03 My driver game is broken right now. Not that I'm gonna ask you for any tips, but I'm in a driver only right now.
5:29 Speaker 02 I'll take a look, bro.
5:30 Jesse Michels? I might go till I run out of balls. Cause I know I'm gonna fucking whack it into weird places.
5:35 Speaker 02 No, you're fine. This is sweet.
5:36 Speaker 03 All right, who's first?
5:37 Jesse Michels? Jamie, you're going first.
5:39 Speaker 02 You wanna send it?
5:42 Speaker 03 That's too hard.
5:43 Jesse Michels? Not bad. There you go.
5:45 Speaker 02 Just hit the shot first and we'll see what we got.
5:47 Jesse Michels? Okay, man. Not working with much.
5:53 Speaker 02 Well, all right, bad. It's just gonna run right down there.
5:58 Jesse Michels? Whoa.
5:59 Speaker 02 That's it.
6:00 Jesse Michels? What got you into UFOs?
6:03 Speaker 02 Obviously those videos that were released or leaked from the Pentagon that came out.
6:08 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
6:09 Speaker 02 Gimbal and... Is it Nimitz, the other one?
6:11 Jesse Michels? Nimitz and Go Fast, yeah.
6:14 Speaker 02 And then it's just been this like slow bleed of listening to Joe Rogan's podcast and hearing Bob Lazar. And like, that's interesting. But that was like the first story or...
6:27 Speaker 02 That I'd heard about it and it's very easy to go, okay, that's just one guy, just dismiss him.
6:32 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
6:32 Speaker 02 And then you just move on with your life. But then you hear more and more guys coming out like that and it's very hard to just dismiss all their information.
6:43 Jesse Michels? Totally.
6:43 Speaker 02 Especially when a lot of their um stories like corroborate each other.
6:48 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
6:48 Speaker 02 You started to hear about the case in Virginia or um Babe Grush mentioned in nineteen thirty-three, it was in Italy.
6:55 Jesse Michels? In Italy.
6:56 Speaker 04 It's long been known that the regime of dictator Benito Mussolini documented numerous U A P during this time. This internal memo from the Italian secret services includes crude drawings of the U A Ps. It's true, it's real.
7:15 Speaker 05 Yeah, that actually happened. Italian government moved it to a secure airbase in Italy for the the rest of kind of the fascist regime until nineteen forty-four, nineteen forty-five. And you know, the Popeye's the twelfth backchanneled that.
7:29 Speaker 04 So the Vatican was involved.
7:30 Speaker 05 Yeah, and told the Americans what the Italians had and and we ended up scooping it.
7:34 Speaker 02 There's so many places where it's happened all over the world.
7:38 Jesse Michels? Forty-six in Sweden, they had ghost rockets, which looked like modified V two's and Eisenhower sent General James Doolittle out there to investigate. And there were like over a thousand of these like V two rockets that seemed to like be able to move in and traverse in ways that like V two's would generally just, you know, they wouldn't steer themselves that much or whatever. And they would go like way faster than V two's and so nobody knows like what those are and.
8:04 Speaker 02 Yeah.
8:05 Jesse Michels? I don't know, I guess, I think Sweden itself has like a lot of UFOs, so they have like a big UFO contingency.
8:10 Speaker 02 Okay.
8:11 Jesse Michels? And there's like an astronomer there named Beatrice Viorial who's big in this stuff, but I don't know.
8:16 Speaker 02 Know that, it just seems like everywhere else outside of the U S, the governments or like they're, it's easier for them to kind of keep that information on the down low. Versus here in the United States, there's so many people who. Are anti governor, government and kind of think for themselves a little bit. So they push the narratives out there.
8:36 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
8:36 Speaker 02 But it is so frustrating because you don't really have anything concrete and like hard evidence yet.
8:42 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
8:42 Speaker 02 Even though there seems to be so much out there. I mean, from your videos and like the deep dives that you do, it's, it's unbelievable. And you want it to be like, you just want to have something.
8:54 Jesse Michels? You want to believe.
8:54 Speaker 02 Yeah. But it's hard to just go like full deep into it until you have.
9:00 Jesse Michels? For sure.
9:01 Speaker 02 You know, something concrete, but hopefully that's going to come soon.
9:04 Jesse Michels? You're the youngest in the top 10?
9:08 Speaker 02 I might be, I don't know, to be honest.
9:11 Jesse Michels? I thought you were. How old are you?
9:13 Speaker 02 It's close.
9:15 Jesse Michels? You're 25?
9:16 Speaker 02 Uh, 27.
9:17 Jesse Michels? 27?
9:17 Speaker 02 Yep.
9:20 Speaker 02 Uh oh.
9:21 Jesse Michels? Oh.
9:21 Speaker 02 That's it.
9:22 Jesse Michels? Dude.
9:22 Speaker 02 Drop. Damn, just hitting everything far.
9:26 Jesse Michels? See Androil moved to Ohio?
9:28 Speaker 02 Yeah.
9:29 Jesse Michels? I think we texted you about that.
9:30 Speaker 02 Giant spot there for sure.
9:31 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
9:32 Speaker 02 The intel plant there is a little bit of a situation right now, but um, they have Androil.
9:37 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
9:38 Speaker 02 Quite a few data centers.
9:40 Jesse Michels? Uh huh.
9:40 Speaker 02 I guess there's like, uh, it's specifically because there's like no seismic activity.
9:43 Jesse Michels? Uh huh.
9:44 Speaker 02 So no fracking, no other things going around.
9:46 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
9:46 Speaker 02 It's obviously important, but.
9:47 Jesse Michels? Interesting.
9:48 Speaker 02 There's also other stuff in that neighborhood.
9:50 Jesse Michels? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like what?
9:52 Speaker 02 I mean, it's not a giant state.
9:54 Jesse Michels? So Ja- Jamie's from um, Ohio, Columbus, Ohio.
9:58 Speaker 02 Yeah.
9:58 Jesse Michels? And Patel Memorial Institute is there. And Patel manages all the nuclear sites across the US.
10:04 Speaker 02 It's also very close to Wright Patterson.
10:06 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
10:06 Speaker 02 Which is, a lot of stuff has happened there supposedly, at least.
10:11 Jesse Michels? So he has some conspiracy theories.
10:12 Speaker 02 Okay. I don't even know if they're conspiracies.
10:17 Speaker 02 Just truth.
10:19 Speaker 02 Kick up there.
10:22 Speaker 02 Go.
10:23 Jesse Michels? Wow.
10:24 Speaker 02 Yeah, nice shot Jamie.
10:26 Jesse Michels? No.
10:26 Speaker 02 It's alright. Yeah.
10:29 Jesse Michels? Black and old lady.
10:30 Speaker 02 I know, they're just there. I hit people all the time.
10:34 Speaker 02 Unfortunately. What's coming up now for you? What do you got planned?
10:38 Jesse Michels? Um, so going to Mexico, Peru.
10:41 Speaker 02 Yeah.
10:41 Jesse Michels? Um, and then doing this. I interviewed these sky watcher guys. I was just talking to Jamie about it. Have you seen these guys? They're like.
10:50 Speaker 02 Sky watchers? No.
10:51 Jesse Michels? They like. Claim to have this thing called the dog whistle, which is this frequency.
10:57 Speaker 02 That attract.
10:58 Jesse Michels? That attracts UFOs like 100% of the time. And they have sensors and they like pick up a lot of weird stuff.
11:04 Speaker 02 Okay.
11:05 Jesse Michels? So I want to see what's up.
11:06 Speaker 02 Wow, okay. Even more effective than the CE5.
11:10 Jesse Michels? Yeah, well, they also have that. They also have like, um, psychic, like they call them neuro meditators or whatever. And they like try to summon.
11:18 Speaker 02 Okay.
11:19 Jesse Michels? UAP and Jake, there was this guy had a start for four years and then Jake Barber, when he came out, joined him and they had like eight classes of UAP. And then he, he joined and they're adding the egg as the ninth. And they're trying to get the egg, which Jake retrieved or whatever in the mid 2000s to like come down.
11:40 Speaker 02 And like. To summon the egg.
11:42 Jesse Michels? Summon the egg.
11:42 Speaker 02 Okay.
11:43 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
11:43 Speaker 02 Wow.
11:44 Jesse Michels? And like do it in front of everybody, which obviously if they do that.
12:16 Jesse Michels? That's insane.
12:17 Speaker 02 Yeah, that's gotta be something that should be next up. If everybody can do that.
12:20 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
12:21 Speaker 02 On tape, please.
12:22 Jesse Michels? Yeah, yeah, on tape.
12:24 Speaker 02 All right, that's, that's cool. Where are they at?
12:26 Jesse Michels? It's a bold, it's a mobile like sensor unit. So they can set up anywhere. But they did operations in Palmdale and then Finley, the Finley Mountain Range.
12:37 Speaker 02 Okay.
12:37 Jesse Michels? In East Texas or West Texas, actually.
12:42 Jesse Michels? Which is a critique of theirs is people are like, oh, it's next to like sensitive sites. So it could be like, you know.
12:48 Speaker 02 But it's not their method.
12:49 Jesse Michels? North of or, or no, it could be like stuff like spoofing them or could be done in conjunction with that.
12:56 Speaker 02 The simple.
12:56 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
12:57 Speaker 02 Okay.
12:58 Jesse Michels? It's a bold claim.
12:59 Speaker 02 No, that's cool. That's worth checking out.
13:00 Jesse Michels? Follow up.
13:01 Speaker 02 Yeah, for sure.
13:07 Speaker 02 Whoa. I'm gonna give myself.
13:11 Jesse Michels? We'll give it to them. Yeah, exactly.
13:19 Jesse Michels? Not bad.
13:20 Speaker 02 Put it on the hill.
13:22 Jesse Michels? All right. No.
13:25 Jesse Michels? It's just pathetic.
13:29 Speaker 02 There we go. You don't have to name any names, but you talk about this stuff on tour at all with anybody?
13:34 Jesse Michels? Uh, people look at me pretty crazy.
13:36 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah? That came out and everyone was like, what? Victor, are you okay?
13:41 Jesse Michels? Pretty much, pretty much. I feel like you're good at spinning the questions that you get back to golf. You're like, yeah, it's like you can't be dogmatic with your golf swing either.
13:51 Speaker 02 But it's so true, though. It's like in everything in life.
13:54 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
13:55 Speaker 02 Obviously, I was trying to connect it together, but it's like you, you have to question everything.
14:01 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
14:02 Speaker 02 And in doing so, you find that either you get rid of the beliefs that you have or you believe in the things you believe in even more deeply.
14:10 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
14:11 Speaker 02 It's like, I think it's good to just be open minded and ask a bunch of questions.
14:14 Jesse Michels? Totally.
14:15 Speaker 02 Especially to that topic that you're involved in. It's like you spend more time researching it. You just get more questions and it's, it's so interesting.
14:24 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
14:25 Speaker 02 And the implications of all of it is, I mean, if, just objectively speaking, if that's not interesting, then what else is, what else is interesting?
14:34 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
14:34 Speaker 02 And nothing else is.
14:38 Jesse Michels? Wow.
14:39 Speaker 02 That's it.
14:40 Jesse Michels? Looks great.
14:43 Speaker 02 That could be pretty good, actually.
14:44 Speaker 03 Yeah, it's pretty good. This is a hard hole.
14:48 Speaker 02 Just over that.
14:48 Speaker 03 Jesse, did you see what he did? Do that.
14:54 Speaker 03 Just copy him.
14:58 Speaker 02 Nope.
14:58 Jesse Michels? That's not bad.
14:59 Speaker 02 Get up.
15:01 Jesse Michels? What was I doing wrong before? Like, I'd hit it?
15:06 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's, uh, where do we start?
15:11 Speaker 03 Alright.
15:12 Speaker 02 Yeah, that's better.
15:13 Speaker 03 Yay! There with me.
15:16 Jesse Michels? There you go.
15:16 Speaker 03 Partner golf.
15:17 Speaker 02 Most improved.
15:18 Jesse Michels? Most improved.
15:21 Jesse Michels? It's a low bar.
15:29 Jesse Michels? Do you feel like you get to, when you travel, you can, like, see the places? You go, or are you, like, so focused?
15:36 Speaker 02 Generally, when I feel like I'm playing pretty well and I'm trying more to conserve my energy.
15:42 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
15:43 Speaker 02 I like to just find a cool spot in the town that I'm in, or,
15:47 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
15:47 Speaker 02 like, a couple of years ago, I was in London and Stonehenge wasn't too far away, so, alright, let's drive an hour and a half and check out Stonehenge, or,
15:55 Jesse Michels? Sick.
15:56 Speaker 02 like, in, um, Ohio or Columbus,
15:59 Speaker 03 Yeah.
15:59 Speaker 02 uh, for that tournament, I drove to Serpent Mound.
16:02 Jesse Michels? Uh-huh.
16:02 Speaker 02 Oh.
16:02 Jesse Michels? Ah, nice.
16:03 Speaker 03 There's a few things in, I mean, you'd be there like a month if you're going, right?
16:06 Speaker 02 Yeah, there's a, there's a couple of things around town. Yeah, there's some cool things there. And it's like, it's just nice to mix it up and get away from the golf course a little bit.
16:13 Jesse Michels? You're really into the, like, ancient civilization.
16:16 Speaker 02 Dude, it's cool, yeah.
16:16 Jesse Michels? Yeah, it's awesome, man.
16:18 Speaker 02 So I liked your Graham Hancock interview, that was, that's cool.
16:21 Jesse Michels? I love Graham. Did you see his debate on Rogan with Flint Dibble?
16:25 Speaker 02 Yeah.
16:25 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
16:26 Speaker 02 What a name that is.
16:29 Speaker 02 Yeah, that was, uh, that was interesting, but, uh, like in the moment, I'm like, man, uh, Flint Dibble is like, he's obviously really smart. Felt like it kinda didn't get anywhere, if that makes sense.
16:42 Speaker 03 I mean, yeah, I just, those debates aren't like usually the best debates even because they're really kind of coming in, not really, I don't think most people are willing to like budge. They're coming in to like, say what they had to say.
16:53 Speaker 02 Yeah, exactly.
16:54 Speaker 03 Kind of get those clips recorded and.
16:55 Jesse Michels? Yeah, and it's like.
16:56 Speaker 02 It's not a conversation of trying to figure out what's going on. It's like, my side is gonna win, or, yeah, it's, can.
17:04 Speaker 03 So just hear me say it again.
17:05 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
17:06 Speaker 03 Now they'll believe me.
17:07 Speaker 02 Yeah, exactly.
17:08 Jesse Michels? And it's just two different like data sets, like, like Graham has his stuff and Flint hasn't even like looked at it.
17:14 Speaker 02 Yeah.
17:15 Jesse Michels? And then here's some slide with two big shipwrecks that like, you know, didn't even happen.
17:21 Speaker 03 He's got a good point, like you haven't looked everywhere. It's like, we haven't looked everywhere. Exactly. Yeah.
17:27 Speaker 02 Yeah.
17:28 Speaker 03 Yeah, we know.
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19:11 Speaker 02 What's the deal about the, the pyramids? What they're discovered underneath the pyramid? Is that just like a weird gadget that they're reading that stuff? Or is there actual physical structures underneath the pyramid? I guess that's what they're maybe debating.
19:25 Jesse Michels? I'm a little skeptical, like the synthetic.
19:27 Speaker 03 The answer is yes.
19:28 Jesse Michels? Yes, what?
19:31 Jesse Michels? What's your take? Have you looked into it?
19:32 Speaker 03 There's definitely stuff under the pyramid. That's how much and how deep it goes is kind of the question.
19:38 Jesse Michels? I've heard that too, but why do you think? Why are you high conviction that there's stuff under the pyramid?
19:43 Speaker 03 Well, I mean, just that people have like gone under it and shown it on video, I think.
19:48 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
19:48 Speaker 03 Like there's like at least a chamber under there.
19:49 Jesse Michels? But this new thing is like synthetic aperture radar, which doesn't penetrate below the ground enough to be able to get like these generators at that level of granularity, be able to draw them up. So I'm skeptical of this latest like Italian.
20:02 Speaker 03 They seem very, you know, like, I don't know if excited or, but like very like adamant about their point. Like, no, we did, this is it.
20:10 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
20:10 Speaker 03 We did find this. I don't think anyone's gonna let them go dig to check either, though.
20:15 Jesse Michels? Right.
20:15 Speaker 02 But can you not figure out a way, maybe like from, you, you dig a hole from, I don't know, half a mile away and try to get close to it?
20:23 Speaker 03 I think they've, people have been asking to go underneath the Sphinx for a long time and they're not letting them do that.
20:28 Jesse Michels? They think there's stuff under the Sphinx. Well, they got the Minister of Culture in Egypt, Zahi Hawass, is like, has like a
20:35 Speaker 02 Gatekeeper?
20:36 Jesse Michels? Clamp down on that entire area. He said in the nineties, he said there's stuff under the Sphinx. And then I think they dug some really superficial thing and they're like, nothing to see here. And then didn't, didn't like pursue it further. So I, there's probably some like, you know, like planned obsolescence, like with like Apple products or something where it's like, it's, I think they, I think they like to like. Dribble out like the reveals for like tourism and they don't like things that go against the Egyptian national pride like if something predates Egypt, that's not good.
21:11 Speaker 02 They can't claim it.
21:12 Jesse Michels? They can't claim it. So I think it's like too much all at once is kind of a threat to them.
21:17 Speaker 02 Do you think there's, uh, do you think they know kind of the, the bigger history of the pyramids, but they're not deciding to release it? Or is it like?
21:27 Jesse Michels? I don't think, I don't think they fully know, like, but I don't know. I believe the like Graham Hancock and Robert Shock, John Anthony West theories that like limestone damage on the Sphinx shows that it predates, you know, whatever it was, the, the Old Kingdom or, you know, 5,000 years ago or whatever.
21:44 Speaker 02 Yeah.
21:44 Jesse Michels? And, you know, maybe there was a tropical climate at that time. And then maybe the pharaonic headdress was like retrofitted onto this like older structure, but beyond that, I think there's decent evidence actually that the pyramids themselves were built uh, during the ancient Egypt. So I don't know. What, what do you think?
22:04 Speaker 03 I'm, yeah, I'm without going, yeah, somewhere like that. I don't know. I was just trying to think in my head. It could be a silly question. I'm trying. Nowhere in the Bible do they talk about the pyramids, do they? But I don't, I don't know. That's kind of, I should probably have Google in front of me to ask that kind of question.
22:18 Jesse Michels? I don't think so, no.
22:19 Speaker 03 So it has to be two to 3,000, but that's what, why wouldn't they? Or did they just not? They could have easily just taken those passages out if they didn't want it in there. I don't know. That's just a thought I just had literally.
22:32 Jesse Michels? The Jews were like the slaves, but then, yeah, were they, are there?
22:36 Speaker 03 Cause they don't talk about building them either. Like we were being used to build this giant structure.
22:40 Jesse Michels? Right.
22:41 Speaker 03 And we're tired of it.
22:42 Speaker 02 Maybe they didn't know what was going on in Egypt because they were obviously in the Middle East. So it's like, it's pretty far away. But you would think they were, that were.
22:50 Speaker 03 I don't know though. There's that, uh.
22:51 Jesse Michels? But it was in Egypt, like the Exodus was, they say it's, this is speculation under Ramses the second in Egypt and so, but then I, yeah, I don't know if they talk about pyramids.
23:03 Speaker 03 Yeah. I just, I'd never thought about it till right now. I might want to call up my phone and pull it up.
23:07 Jesse Michels? Chat GPT.
23:08 Speaker 02 Pull it up, Jamie.
23:11 Speaker 03 Was pyramids mentioned in the Bible?
23:14 Jesse Michels? He's like, fuck you.
23:25 Speaker 02 Oh yeah, okay.
23:28 Speaker 02 Go, go, go, go. Yeah. Was that Harold Malmgren video that you did? Was that maybe the craziest one that you've done? Or?
23:38 Jesse Michels? I think so. I kinda think so, cuz it's like hard to argue with his credentials.
23:45 Speaker 02 Yeah.
23:45 Jesse Michels? Like, they're kind of unimpeachable. You know, like, I mean, I
23:49 Speaker 02 There might be now, last they changed the Wikipedia
23:51 Jesse Michels? Dude, it's so crazy.
23:53 Speaker 02 Yeah, that's wild.
23:54 Jesse Michels? It's insane. They literally changed, did you see this, Jamie?
23:56 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:57 Jesse Michels? They, uh, they literally changed him from like top presidential aide, you know, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, to like, American writer and lobbyist? And said he was like, part of the Japanese whaling lobby? And like, and then involved, you know, involved in some other scandal or whatever. It's insane. And if you hear him speak, like, to any discerning person, you're like, he was an extremely like, elite player in politics.
24:23 Speaker 02 Yeah.
24:23 Jesse Michels? Like, you just know, you hear how sophisticated he is. It's just insane, but, um, so I, yeah, I think, I think so. Like, I, I thought about it after that, and I'm like,
24:35 Jesse Michels? how much deeper can you get without like unveiling a saucer and a hanger?
24:38 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah. And I could, I, I don't have the knowledge that you do, but I could see that in that interview, as he's talking, you're just like, making all these connections, like, with certain things that he's saying, and the people that he's been around. It was like, it was just pretty cool to watch from, like, an outsider's perspective.
24:57 Jesse Michels? I was like, what the fu, like, the magenta thing? Yeah, what else did Richard Bissell tell you?
25:02 Speaker 06 He said this didn't start last week. This has been going on.
25:08 Speaker 06 He mentioned that in 1933, magenta.
25:12 Jesse Michels? He did?
25:13 Speaker 06 Yes.
25:13 Jesse Michels? Richard Bissell mentioned the 1933 magenta, correct?
25:16 Speaker 06 Yes.
25:17 Jesse Michels? That's amazing. Exactly. That is such corroboration because that is a highly conflicted, you know, account.
25:25 Speaker 05 1933 was the first recovery in Europe in Magenta Italy.
25:29 Jesse Michels? I fully trust David Grush, but that's amazing that there's some corroboration from back then.
25:34 Speaker 02 He mentioned it.
25:35 Jesse Michels? Wow. It's pretty crazy that the Blue Gill Triple Prime Test, like there's so much data around that, probably involving some sort of anomalous object.
25:44 Speaker 02 Yeah.
25:45 Jesse Michels? This guy Jeffrey Krupshink went really deep into. But then it's also tough. It's like he said, like he said majestic, that word like from the Majestic 12.
25:53 Speaker 02 Yeah.
25:53 Jesse Michels? And then I didn't even, Nick was actually filming it and like, I didn't even hear that. We had to transcribe it later because it's what he survived throat cancer 12 years ago.
26:04 Speaker 02 Oh, wow.
26:04 Jesse Michels? And his voice is not good. And so he said that on the phone to me and if I had more time with him, I would have asked him 100 questions about that.
26:11 Speaker 02 Yeah.
26:11 Jesse Michels? So he could have been using that in its counter intel context, like just referring to some group, but like, he didn't want to say the name of the group or whatever. So it's just, it's hard to say on some of this stuff. Like, I wish I had more, more time with him, but, but still like.
26:28 Speaker 02 And the, and the fact that they changed his Wikipedia right after, like that makes you pretty conspiratorial when you see stuff like that. I mean, like, why would you do that?
26:36 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
26:37 Speaker 02 Why?
26:37 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
26:38 Speaker 02 No other reason than to discredit what the man said.
26:41 Jesse Michels? Totally. You can come up with these like meta games that they could be playing where it's like, they want to show he's credible by, by like faking some detraction on it, but it's, it's crazy. At a certain point, you're like, I think the guy, you just take it at face value or whatever. And then there are other things like he's at the end of his life and like, you don't always remember everything perfectly correctly, but like, I don't know. If you add up the fact that Richard Bissell, who like literally like was the designer of Area 51, like was briefing him on other world technologies and then, you know, he's holding the thing Lawrence, I mean, we should ask Jeff Bezos, like, because that's his grandfather that gave him the, the UAP material or whatever.
27:23 Speaker 02 So.
27:24 Speaker 05 What a crazy connection.
27:25 Jesse Michels? How crazy is that?
27:27 Speaker 02 So this is kind of a weird question, but if Jeff Jeff Bezos has connection to the intelligence community and like, maybe they know something that most people don't.
27:38 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
27:38 Speaker 02 Like, why are him and like Elon out there shooting chemical rockets into space? Like, if they had more advanced technology or crafts, like, why are they pushing it in that direction?
27:49 Jesse Michels? Yeah, I I think about this a lot and like, I think if they do have stuff, which I do think they have stuff, I don't think they know how to use it.
27:58 Speaker 02 Hmm.
27:58 Jesse Michels? And I think if there are psy ops, it's like convincing people they do or something. It's like softening the enemy or something.
28:05 Speaker 03 I wouldn't imagine they test that like every week or every night. And I'd be like, every six months, like, all right, we've got to test. Everybody's in place. We're gonna do it at like 3 a.m. to 5:30 a.m.
28:16 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
28:18 Speaker 03 And we'll get back next week and we'll see, oh shit, they saw it.
28:21 Jesse Michels? Ah.
28:22 Speaker 03 No, no, delete. What's supposed to happen? How'd they see it? Who saw it?
28:27 Speaker 02 Yeah. Now let's pivot in this direction.
28:29 Speaker 03 Yeah. All right, stop. Three months later, I have to take a break. That's also a little bit too extreme, too. Like, it can't just be that either.
28:36 Speaker 02 Yeah.
28:36 Jesse Michels? But the like, the only, you don't have a ton of evidence that they know to use this stuff. It's like Bob Lazar, Dan Barish, you have like a few possible data points. And then otherwise, there's like, I think a lot of evidence there crashes and that they have anomalous stuff. And then it could be like a USB drive for like a caveman.
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29:26 Jesse Michels? Where it's like
29:27 Speaker 03 Even if you know how to use it
29:28 Jesse Michels? No idea
29:29 Speaker 03 Even if you know how to use it doesn't mean you know how to make it or deconstruct it or recharge it
29:36 Jesse Michels? Right
29:36 Speaker 03 Refuel it, you know, who knows, like
29:38 Jesse Michels? Right
29:39 Speaker 03 I don't know, who knows really, I guess.
29:41 Speaker 02 What, what on the physics sides do you find the most convincing? Cause it seems like there's potentially a lot of different ways to get to kind of the same outcome of technology.
29:53 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
29:53 Speaker 02 But a lot of, at least the physicists that I'd like to listen to or have thoughts of, they, they come at it from many different angles and it's like, which one's correct? And like, can you test it? Can you try it?
30:05 Jesse Michels? I think it's hard to say, like, and you have all these like EM drive and like Alcubiori warp drive. And you have like how put offs like electrically polarized vacuum, you have like a million different frameworks.
30:14 Speaker 02 Yeah.
30:15 Jesse Michels? I like to start, cause I'm dumb on the physics level, like with the
30:19 Speaker 02 Doesn't seem like it, but
30:21 Jesse Michels? No, really, I got, you know, I could like barely keep up, but like, I think finding like the, the like initial effect that was like an anomaly that got classified is like probably the best starting point. And I think this guy Townsend Brown figured out basically a way to manipulate gravity with electromagnetism. And then a lot stems from that, that's like more sophisticated. So I like, I like to like start there.
30:45 Speaker 02 Yeah.
30:46 Jesse Michels? But I don't know, I'm sure they're like way more advanced at this point.
30:50 Speaker 02 Yeah, you would think so, or you would hope so.
30:52 Jesse Michels? I think so.
30:53 Speaker 02 Yeah.
30:54 Jesse Michels? And there's like, I don't know, like aerospace graybeards that I speak to and I bring up Brown and that sort of thing. They're like, you know, we can't say, but like wink, wink, nudge, nudge, like, or it's the opposite where they're like, bizarrely, like aggressively, like, there's definitely nothing there. I saw your video, but there's nothing there. And it's like, why are you watching my video?
31:13 Speaker 02 Yeah.
31:14 Jesse Michels? Like you're like, you're like some like the walkie, like exactly or something.
31:19 Speaker 02 There's so many physicists that are talking about like, okay, advanced whatever technology and you can Use a quantum vacuum or whatever the word they're trying to say. And then you have so many other scientists, whatever the establishment that are just fully materialistic and any anomaly that we see is just prosaic or conventional. And it's like, why do you have such, there's such a big divide? And it's like, it's, I've been listening to Avi Loeb on your buddy Chris.
31:47 Jesse Michels? Chris Ramsey, yeah, yeah. He did a great job.
31:49 Speaker 02 Yeah, and like, I love listening to Avi, but even he is like, he's trying to find aliens.
31:54 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
31:54 Speaker 02 And he's like, I haven't seen anything. I don't believe in anything else outside of that. So it's just interesting how you can have one faction of people, particularly the people working for government.
32:05 Jesse Michels? But Avi also comes from like an intelligence background. He worked on the, he worked on Star Wars. Yeah, like.
32:11 Speaker 02 I thought he said that he didn't in that podcast, but I might have listened wrong.
32:15 Jesse Michels? No, I'm pretty sure, it's about Star Wars?
32:17 Speaker 02 Yeah, maybe.
32:18 Jesse Michels? I, I think so. Maybe I'm wrong, but I wonder if he knows a little more than he lets on. Or he said the High Mesh, like, did you hear that?
32:27 Speaker 02 No, I did not.
32:28 Jesse Michels? So this guy like ran the Israeli Space Force and he's like, there's a Galactic Federation and we're working with like aliens on Mars, like crazy shit. And he's like, I think he knows that from his intelligence background. And I'm like, how would you know that? This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you are going through something, anything, I always think talking about it helps. I've also always believed that taking care of your mental wellbeing is as essential as staying physically fit, especially when life keeps you on the go. For me, it's interviews, projects and travel. Sometimes you just need to blow off some steam. I've seen firsthand how a solid support system can transform your day to day.
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34:24 Speaker 03 McGonigal?
34:25 Jesse Michels? McMonigal.
34:26 Speaker 03 McMonigal.
34:26 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
34:27 Speaker 03 The CIA remote viewer.
34:28 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
34:29 Speaker 03 That was, that was a wild one.
34:33 Speaker 03 Cause he pulled out on your, oh, here we go. All right, aliens are coming. They got us. It's a new train.
34:43 Speaker 03 But, but, yeah. Remote viewing millions of years ago, Mars.
34:47 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
34:48 Speaker 03 But then also they say that like only 30% of what they were seeing was accurate.
34:53 Jesse Michels? Yeah, for sure. And, and some of the images he showed me, I like debunked, like some of them are not legit. So who's to, I don't know. But the Mars, the Mars thing, I think it's actually dogmatic and crazy to say 0% chance that there was life on Mars. You have the water caverns, you have the like, the excess of like argon.
35:16 Speaker 03 The other thing I have, I've read and I don't believe it's true is that the, uh, the current rover up there wasn't equipped with anything to actually look for signs of life. It's just got like cameras and it's looking for other stuff. Like the goal wasn't to look for life.
35:29 Jesse Michels? Interesting.
35:30 Speaker 03 For the same reason, I'm, I heard someone talking about the moon landing stuff again recently. I'm like, you go into this whole process and you have to also film it because no one believes you.
35:38 Jesse Michels? Exactly.
35:38 Speaker 03 It's kind of a tough process and thought process to get through. Cause like you're doing all the, have to go, don't care, film it. That's not my, I'm here to like, make sure the rocket goes and doesn't explode. And we get there and we get back and then these other guys like, you gotta film it. No one's gonna believe you.
35:53 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
35:55 Speaker 03 It's like, I'm starting to be like, it's a tough. I still believe in the moon landing and all that, but like, it's still a weird thing like. You don't believe Bart Cybrell or whatever? Joe does. I don't even know if he does. It's just a fun conversation to have.
36:08 Speaker 02 It is a fun conversation.
36:09 Speaker 03 That's really a lot of it. It's just fun to talk. Joe was arguing with, uh, who was it? Dave Smith or? Well, he, Joe was really into it at one point. Yeah. And he's just back and forth. I think we've talked about, it just depends on the day you wake up. You're like, where am I at today? Like, I'm a little more this way today. Yeah. It's so funny.
36:29 Speaker 02 Keeps it interesting.
36:30 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
36:33 Speaker 03 Oh, Jesus. Come back right. I got on one green.
36:40 Speaker 03 Sorry.
36:43 Speaker 03 When's your next tournament?
36:44 Speaker 02 Next week.
36:45 Speaker 03 Oh, is it? Okay. So you have the week off and then?
36:47 Speaker 02 Yep. Go to Philadelphia and then it's Charlotte and then to Memorial.
36:52 Speaker 03 Wow, nice.
36:55 Speaker 03 If you want to get good at golf. Yeah. Stay friends with him. Keep getting tips. I like that. Just act like it doesn't exist. Woo! That's really good. Look at that. Dude, crazy. That was insane. So it's a hundred. You have a perfect hundred shot then, yeah? It's right in your head?
37:13 Speaker 02 Yeah, it was, uh, I had to club up for that one.
37:17 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah.
37:18 Speaker 02 That needs to sit though.
37:21 Speaker 03 Bounce right. Yeah, dude.
37:23 Speaker 02 Come on, come on now.
37:24 Speaker 03 Oh, let's go.
37:25 Speaker 02 Come on now.
37:27 Speaker 03 Uh oh, get through. Where'd it go? I don't even see it. Just dropped down, right down the bottom of the tree.
37:32 Speaker 02 Oh, it didn't get through. It's one thing you can have.
37:36 Speaker 02 Yeah, the vibe is sweet. Nice.
37:41 Speaker 02 Good shot.
37:45 Speaker 02 How did, uh, YouTube get linked up?
37:47 Speaker 03 Um, I mean, just through, it was osmosis.
37:51 Speaker 02 Yeah.
37:51 Speaker 03 It would have happened eventually.
37:52 Speaker 02 Yeah.
37:53 Speaker 03 I think one of his videos, I found, I just found his videos and I DM'd him after one of them.
37:58 Speaker 02 Yeah.
37:58 Speaker 03 And then the link, the real link was after Townsend Brown video. I don't know if you watched that one?
38:03 Speaker 02 Yeah.
38:04 Speaker 03 We were already talking and I texted him. I was like, are you telling me? That Doc Brown had a moment of like lightning and drove back to his lab in Pasadena and created time travel? Sounds like Back to the Future dude. And he was like, holy shit, you're right. He Googled some stuff and he got back to his like, and there's even more that you don't know. And I was like, okay.
38:26 Speaker 02 Oh, wow.
38:27 Speaker 03 That's weird. That's weird.
38:30 Speaker 02 Hi, it's Jesse.
38:31 Jesse Michels? Let's go. I think Back to the Future definitely touches on some real stuff. Cause when the, when the DeLorean comes back, it crashes and the guy has like a little comic, the kid has a comic book with like alien UFOs and he's like, it has no seams, no rivets, like it must be an alien UFO or whatever. And it's actually a time travel machine. So he's like mistaking it in real time or whatever. Oh shit.
38:59 Jesse Michels? Damn.
39:01 Speaker 02 So close.
39:01 Jesse Michels? And then, uh, and then the guy Townsend Brown, like Doc Brown is Emmet Townsend, Emmet.
39:07 Speaker 02 Yeah, you pull up the TT.
39:08 Jesse Michels? Thomas Townsend Brown.
39:09 Speaker 03 I was just with Doc Brown. I was like, that was close enough because driving to Pasadena, which is where it took place and all that stuff.
39:14 Jesse Michels? Which is where Townsend Brown did his experiments and it's called the flux capacitor, which is Townsend Brown's experiment as a capacitor.
39:22 Speaker 02 Like, but what, what do you make of that? Or is, are they like, are there like Hollywood movies? Is that scripted in a sort of way?
39:29 Speaker 03 According to Tom DeLonge, it's all on purpose.
39:31 Jesse Michels? I think, I think.
39:32 Speaker 02 Or, or is it just like the wild synchronicities of, of life?
39:36 Jesse Michels? Like simulation?
39:37 Speaker 03 Yeah, I, I lean more towards that because there's so many weird ones that pop up.
39:42 Jesse Michels? I don't want it Steven, Steven Spielberg executive produced it. And he, that guy knows some shit. Even if you look at Close Encounters of the Third Kind, there are two crates. Those are like the most advanced R and D programs at Lockheed and Northrop respectively, that would have to do with this topic. Like, how would he know about that? In like the late eighties, like.
40:00 Speaker 02 Yeah.
40:01 Jesse Michels? I don't know.
40:01 Speaker 02 Been read in my mind.
40:02 Jesse Michels? Fed some stuff. Yeah.
40:04 Speaker 03 I don't know who made one of my favorite ones, Flight of the Navigator I've told you about.
40:07 Jesse Michels? That's a Disney.
40:08 Speaker 03 Yeah, I know that. Director Randall Kleiser. I've never heard of that name.
40:13 Jesse Michels? I first met Jake Barber at Disneyland.
40:16 Speaker 02 Really?
40:16 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
40:17 Speaker 03 Disney, same place?
40:18 Jesse Michels? He was there with his family.
40:19 Speaker 03 Okay.
40:19 Jesse Michels? And, uh, I drove down from LA.
40:24 Speaker 02 That was also a pretty crazy interview, I thought, with Jake.
40:29 Jesse Michels? I thought so too, like, I think it was too much for people to stomach, like, the psychic stuff and the
40:36 Speaker 02 Yeah.
40:36 Jesse Michels? UFO retrieval stuff all at once.
40:38 Speaker 02 Yeah, and the fact that he says he's handled these crafts himself, like, you don't hear that stuff very often.
40:44 Jesse Michels? No, he definitely, no, I mean, it's like, if that's, I don't know, you know, where to shake out there, like, I think if he's incredibly sophisticated and like, so, everything checks on the surface, like, it's almost like we'll never know. He's so, he's so sophisticated, and if it is true, it's the tip of the spear, it's like that and Lazar, and like, what's farther than that?
41:07 Speaker 03 There's an assumption that the United States government is this whole encompassing thing, and they all work together, and they all know everything, and they've got computers, and they all talk on chats and emails and everybody's friends.
41:18 Jesse Michels? That can't be.
41:19 Speaker 03 Now, that's nowhere, it's probably the farthest from the truth.
41:21 Jesse Michels? It would have leaked.
41:22 Speaker 03 And there's multiple different factions, even within factions and factions within factions, and
41:28 Speaker 02 Yeah.
41:29 Speaker 03 Maybe there's a small group of three guys that found something and stored it in a locker somewhere, and like, they're afraid to say what they got, because they don't even know, and it turns out
41:37 Speaker 02 And just has more and more.
41:38 Speaker 03 This group has fifty of them, that's what Barbara was saying with the egg, like, they might not care about the egg, because they have too many, it's like, what a crazy thing to say.
41:45 Jesse Michels? I know, and that's what he said, I was like.
41:46 Speaker 03 What'd you do with it then? You just throw it back? Like, dropped it off in the ocean? Like, where did it go?
41:50 Speaker 02 Yeah.
41:51 Speaker 03 Just left it?
41:51 Jesse Michels? We're like, how many do we have? And he's like, who is us? He's like, it's like all these like factions fighting against each other.
41:58 Speaker 03 I imagine if you told some, there's gotta be a black market on, on the dark net for
42:03 Jesse Michels? UFOs.
42:03 Speaker 03 What's in that box? Buy it and find out.
42:06 Speaker 02 But then how is this not more ubiquitous then?
42:08 Jesse Michels? How is it not more leaked and more, yeah, yeah, if it's that many?
42:11 Speaker 03 I, no one, I just back to the, like, it's no one knows, they don't, it's hard to figure it out, you can see something.
42:17 Jesse Michels? And not know what it is.
42:18 Speaker 03 If you don't have the right tool to get in there.
42:20 Jesse Michels? Right, just an egg shaped.
42:22 Speaker 03 Yeah, if you find an iPhone in a hundred years.
42:25 Jesse Michels? But it can't be.
42:26 Speaker 02 Yeah, but there should be more concrete, like, evidence there.
42:28 Speaker 03 I agree.
42:29 Speaker 02 Whereas I feel like everything is so much more into the, almost the theoretical, like, you listen to certain people, and they've got this whole framework kind of figured out, but nothing to kind of show for it.
42:40 Jesse Michels? Yes, unless, unless you have a thousand. If you have over a thousand of the eggs or whatever, then one of them's gonna leak. It just will in the modern day, you know? So it has to be like less than that. And yeah, there is this whole like theoretical ontology around a thing that we don't even know.
42:56 Speaker 02 We don't even know, yeah. It's just like crazy. So I'm gonna speculate and like, I think a lot of the ontology kind of makes sense.
43:05 Jesse Michels? Yeah.
43:06 Speaker 02 Um, when you kind of, when you listen to people explain it like that, but again, you gotta have something concrete to show for it.
43:12 Jesse Michels? For sure. It also could like be a bunch of different things, like the things you're summoning or the things that show up around nukes that like, look like blobby like lights or whatever, aren't the saucers in, you know, Lockheed Hingers or whatever. Like those could be two fundamentally different things.
43:30 Speaker 02 Yeah.
43:32 Jesse Michels? So it's just hard to say, like, it could be like a zoo of like, there's just like this spooky science world. The DOE has like a lock on like a lot of it or whatever. Cause that's where you have like the most secretive atomic stuff. And then that's where you would put the most secret science. It's where we do like the most, you know, like intense, high energy physics.
43:51 Speaker 02 Okay.
43:52 Jesse Michels? Stuff, so.
43:53 Speaker 02 Not DARPA, but like a different arm?
43:55 Jesse Michels? DARPA is a part of the DOE, so.
43:58 Speaker 02 So that you, you think they have just a lot of different departments kind of each specializes to particle physics, to whatever, the cloning DNA.
44:09 Jesse Michels? Well, they, the DOE also paid for the human genome experiment. So like they like have like a lot of genomic data that, you know, other departments don't. They, they have the tightest security like since Los Alamos. And if you even look at like the special definition of nuclear material, like in the Atomic Energy Act of 1954, it's like anything emitting alpha, beta, gamma radiation is like born secret. It's like restricted data upon finding it. So you could just contract out a lot.
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45:08 Jesse Michels? Lockheed or Northrop or whatever, and if they like stumble onto a thing, it's like, it's like immediately secret. And then you have these, I don't know, like the largest particle accelerator in the US is like at Brookhaven National Labs. It's called Cosmatron. And so a lot of the secret science stuff is going on at these DOE sites and that Malamud said that too.
45:27 Speaker 02 Yeah. Do you think, that's just from what I've heard, like, you know, the technology and iPhone, the screen, whatever,
45:36 Speaker 02 wireless, wifi, all that stuff is like, kind of leaked from DARPA. I've just heard that, do you know, have you corroborated that at all?
45:45 Jesse Michels? That's to some extent, that's a hundred percent true and not conspiratorial. Like, uh, there's a, a search engine called Menex, which was pre-Google. Okay. That DARPA had been experimenting with, you know, well before Google. ARPA-E created the internet, like Jacques Vallée, who's actually a UFO pioneer, was like, working with Doug Engelbart on like the earliest part of the internet in like the seventies.
46:07 Speaker 02 Wow, okay. Any, uh, people from like Lockheed or Northrop or, uh, any of those companies that you have a chance to maybe, um, interview and like see from that angle, because most of it, I feel like you're coming or.
46:22 Jesse Michels? There's a guy I met from Skunk Works who's like really smart. Doesn't believe in you, he thinks like the UFO stuff is kind of, he believes in UFOs, like in the ephemeral, like you see them out side or you see them, you know, like, you know, around like nuclear sites or whatever.
46:43 Speaker 02 Okay.
46:43 Jesse Michels? But I don't think he thinks that's the same thing as like, he thinks it's just human tech, like at Lockheed and other places. And so.
46:51 Speaker 02 But he works for Skunk Works.
46:53 Jesse Michels? He used to.
46:54 Speaker 02 Used to.
46:54 Jesse Michels? Yeah, for like, but like for like 30 years.
46:56 Speaker 02 Okay.
46:57 Jesse Michels? And he, but he's, he's kind of trippy and he believes in a lot of like, I think he thinks that we've made a lot of progress on a lot of like secret tech that.
47:04 Speaker 02 After he left Lockheed or?
47:06 Jesse Michels? No, like since, since even while he was there, but like he kind of hints at stuff, like he can't always like, you know. What's up guys? I want to tell you about my new favorite boots, these things. Things are epic. I've been wearing these everywhere. They're called Brunt. They're insanely comfortable and durable. These things last for years and they're super versatile. I wear them for hiking, for hanging out. They look pretty swaggy if you're going out. They even look good in work meetings. They feel incredibly comfortable. There's no annoying break in period. They just kind of form fit to your foot right off the bat. They're lightweight. You don't have to lug them around, but they're also super weather resistant, waterproof and durable. Brunt is committed to making sure you're a hundred percent satisfied with your new gear.
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48:30 Speaker 02 Well, fellas, enjoyed it.
48:32 Jesse Michels? Great playing, man. It was an honor. It was an honor. Thank you for bringing yourself down to our level. It means a lot.
48:40 Speaker 02 Well, yeah, we meet each other halfway. I go down on the golf thing and you go down with the UFO stuff.
48:48 Jesse Michels? No, no.
48:49 Speaker 02 We meet each other halfway.
48:50 Jesse Michels? No, I mean, I might not know more than you, you know?
48:54 Speaker 02 It's fascinating to talk about, so.
48:56 Jesse Michels? It definitely is. And I think, I think there's going to be a lot of momentum in this world for like the next. I just, I feel like it's in the zeitgeist, like there's so much, even if it's like a vague sense that there's just. I don't know, like you asked me this, you were like, uh, what if the UFOs just like, don't go anywhere? I'm like, I just don't think that's going to be the case. And that was like six months ago.
49:18 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah.
49:19 Jesse Michels? I would, I would believe that it's gonna like keep, keep growing.
49:23 Speaker 02 Take off, yeah.
49:25 Jesse Michels? You do a fake walk off or just take off?
49:29 Jesse Michels? You see me drive away? Yeah.
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