Steven Greer: “UFO Secrets Are Held By A Global Cabal”

Dr. Steven Greer goes deeper than ever before, revealing how secret programs have weaponized alien contact and suppressed transformative technology. Greer reveals high-level briefings, attempted assassinations, and a hidden cabal operating beyond presidential oversight. He claims these operations have staged false flag UFO events, manipulated sitting presidents, and buried free energy breakthroughs. We have a fun candid conversation where he calls me an uninformed UFO dilettante multiple times 😂🤷🏻‍♂️. I don’t agree with Greer on many things but his contributions to UFO disclosure are incontrovertible. Dr. Steven Greer's Website ➤ https://drstevengreer.com -------------------------- Brunt: Get $10 Off @BRUNT with code [JESSE] at https://bruntworkwear.com/JESSE #BRUNTpod Qualia: Resist aging at the cellular level, try Qualia Senolytic. Go to https://Qualialife.com/JESSE for up to 50% off and use code JESSE at checkout for an additional 15% off. For your convenience Qualia Senolytic is also available at select GNC locations near you. MUDWTR: Start your new morning ritual & get up to 43% off your @MUDWTR with code JESSE at https://mudwtr.com/JESSE ! #mudwtrpod -------------------------- ***JOIN OUR WHOP (Exclusive Episodes & Group Calls) ➤ https://whop.com/jessemichels ***Become a Member of American Alchemy: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuG2KzrIMe3qoNcuDVpwnXw/join -------------------------- Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction 1:30 Steven Greer Background 4:26 The Disclosure Project 5:47 The Role of the Deep State 8:27 Historical Ties to Fascism 11:28 Nazi Technology and Its Legacy 13:31 The Roots of Covert Programs 15:06 Advanced Technologies and Energy Independence 16:48 Whistleblowers and Their Risks 20:24 The Criminal Conspiracy 22:23 The Shadow Government 27:01 Identifying Truth in Disinformation 31:20 The Origin Story of CE5 37:37 Contact with Beings 44:25 The Influence of Powerful Families 47:05 Understanding Abduction Cases 50:06 The MJ12 Controversy 51:48 Corporate Interests and Government Secrecy 54:34 The Maze of Disinformation 58:22 The Importance of Truth 1:04:14 Protecting the Future of Humanity 1:06:21 The Complexity of Extraterrestrial Narratives 1:10:18 The Secrets of Black Projects 1:13:51 The Philadelphia Experiment Unveiled 1:15:45 Advanced Technologies and Their Dangers 1:18:28 The Crisis of Disclosure 1:20:16 The Connection to Political Figures 1:26:31 The Role of the Military-Industrial Complex 1:33:40 The Foundation of the Disclosure Project 1:38:34 Uncovering the Dark Side of Education 1:46:21 The Future of Energy Technology 1:53:36 The Impending Energy Crisis 2:03:28 The Influence of Media and Disinformation 2:14:08 Political Manipulation and Cover-Ups 2:19:06 The Interplay of Science and Power 2:22:35 Whistleblower Protection 2:26:24 Evidence of Disclosure 2:33:18 The Shadow Government 2:36:27 The Choice Ahead 2:44:23 National Security Concerns 2:50:06 The Fight for Free Energy 2:52:59 Fear as a Control Mechanism 3:02:19 The Nature of Contact 3:05:37 Meeting with High Officials 3:10:29 Understanding Hybridization 3:17:58 Alien Agreements and Eisenhower 3:28:40 Call for Action 3:34:09 Conclusion -------------------------- SPOTIFY ➤ https://tinyurl.com/jessemichelsspotify INSTAGRAM ➤ https://www.instagram.com/jessemichelsofficial TWITTER ➤ https://twitter.com/AlchemyAmerican EMAIL/BOOKINGS ➤ [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  You're dealing with weapons that would make hydrogen bomb look like a tinker toy.

• 0:06Speaker 00

  It's the largest criminal corrupt organization in the history of the earth. Most people have a price.

• 0:14Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 0:15Speaker 00

  In either blackmail, threats, or money, or position. I said, "Sit on it and rotate."

• 0:22Jesse Michels?

  Why are you so controversial?

• 0:25Speaker 00

  Just let me finish, let me finish, let me finish the story. You keep interrupting me, but I will tell you if you'll let me finish. The really high-tech stuff, they slammed into a box. It would liberate every home, every car, every factory, every country.

• 0:39Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 0:39Speaker 00

  Into energy independence, no pollution, and no poverty. Here's a warning to you money-grubbing whores. It's gonna, it's gonna be open sourced.

• 0:50Speaker 00

  So I've been doing this work one hell of a long time, since I was 35. I thought everything that went bump in the night was alien. I did. And it wasn't until I started having people come forward who said, "Oh, we piloted these." And then I had guys come forward who had actually been on the abduction squad. Made to look like aliens.

• 1:06Jesse Michels?

  Whoa.

• 1:06Speaker 00

  And they said, "Oh, no."

• 1:07Jesse Michels?

  You've met people who like...

• 1:09Speaker 00

  Committed those crimes.

• 1:10Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 1:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, and they feel terrible later in life. The folks who know about this, they need to come clean truthfully soon. This is getting very serious right now. Whether you're in Congress, the Senate, the public, or someone on your podcast, they need to be arrested and tried for treason and sedition against the United States.

• 1:30Jesse Michels?

  Does that involve storming Area 51 and dugway and a right pad? Or what does this involve? Literally.

• 1:41Jesse Michels?

  This week's long-awaited American alchemist is Dr. Stephen Greer. Love him or hate him, this medical doctor turned UFO truth seeker has played a big part in modern disclosure that can't be ignored. If you are trying to get closer to the truth, you just can't really throw out his foundational research, the Disclosure Project archive, and his whistleblower testimonies. He's gathered more firsthand UFO witnesses than anyone on the planet, and humanity owes him a debt for that. In my opinion, speaking to Dr. Dr. Greer is like panning for gold. If you get past some of his antics, there's a ton of value there. I've been told by people not to do this interview because of those antics. I don't really care for being told who I should and shouldn't speak with. Talking to someone on

• 2:23Jesse Michels?

  a podcast is not in any way an endorsement of all of their beliefs. So I decided to sit down with him. The one caveat I will include here is Dr. Greer goes after just about everybody in UFO world and hurls out a ton of ad hominem's. If I had tried to perfectly referee all of his accusations, this would have turned into an unintelligible and endless argument about who the bad faith actors are in UFO world. Although I generally agree with him, there are probably many. So instead, I tried to show appreciation for his incontrovertible contributions to UFO disclosure and to learn what I could from him. So without further ado or disclaimers, please enjoy this special long-form episode with this week's American alchemist, Dr. Stephen Greer.

• 3:29Jesse Michels?

  I'm here with Dr. Stephen Greer. I'm so excited to do this. This has been a long time coming for me because I've explored a lot in UFO world.

• 3:38Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 3:39Jesse Michels?

  And you are really responsible for a lot of disclosure. I mean, a lot of the, most of the whistleblowers who've come out have had a touch point with you before they've gone public. And so Disclosure Project is your kind of organization. You have an archive with terabytes of data, documents that go incredibly deep on the cover-up. You've also made a couple of great movies, Unacknowledged, The Lost Century, about suppressed science.

• 4:07Speaker 00

  And the new one that just came out, The Battle for Disclosure.

• 4:10Jesse Michels?

  And The Battle for Disclosure. And then you've given me this incredible, this briefing.

• 4:15Speaker 00

  For the president. We cleaned it up.

• 4:17Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 4:18Speaker 00

  And redacted things.

• 4:19Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 4:19Speaker 00

  And then made it available to the public. So everyone can get it now. So you'll have 90-plus percent of what the new president has.

• 4:26Jesse Michels?

  That's pretty awesome. The Disclosure Project briefing document 2025. So have you spoken to Trump or his team?

• 4:32Speaker 00

  I can't, I won't, I can't talk about the who, the names. But very senior people relevant to this issue and national security, yes. So as soon as the election happened, even before. So some of his closest advisors and, and major funders have been on my team and are supportive of this. And some of them that are new to that world, and just to be clear to everyone, I'm nonpartisan. So I've dealt with all the way back to Clinton and the Obama and John Podesta, all the way forward to now. So my institute and the Disclosure Project is completely a nonpartisan, has to be.

• 5:13Speaker 00

  And only nonpartisan, it's global because I do the same thing for Europe, Australia, Great Britain, I was just in Great Britain in September. So we're assiduously, carefully, nonpartisan. With that said, this administration, I think the first administration since Bill Clinton tried to fix this problem in his first term, is most open to perhaps pursuing it. We'll see.

• 5:39Jesse Michels?

  That would be very exciting. Well, this brings up this kind of perennial question because I think a lot of people associate this topic with the quote unquote "deep state." And they also associate Bill Clinton with the quote unquote "deep state." And so how deep is the deep state that deals with this topic? If you have Bill Clinton kind of knocking on the door of the program and not getting let in, what are we talking about as far as a, a power structure here?

• 6:04Speaker 00

  Well, it's exactly what Eisenhower described when he went out of office in 61, in January of 61, when he left and Jack Kennedy came in. And he said, "Beware the military industrial complex, it'll become a threat to our way of life, and excessive secrecy will destroy democracy." I'm paraphrasing, but you can read the speech. The same thing that Jack Kennedy said in a number of speeches. And then, we know for a fact, and I know the people who have the actionable intelligence on this, Jack Kennedy was killed over this issue. And the constellation of programs attached to UAPs, and particularly the science and technology branch of it, which we'll get into. That's two big pillars here keeping it secret.

• 6:49Speaker 00

  They want people to go out publicly, and we know who they are, who will spin the subject in the direction of it being an alien threat for the purpose of a totalitarian superstate uniting the world against aliens, which is a total hoax and nonsense. And that's, you know, it's like the movie Independence Day, or The War of the Worlds, or whatever, you know, like when Will Smith goes, "Let's kick an alien butt," right? That, you know, that whole script was like out of CIA central scripting casting. Not that Will Smith is, he's a great guy, but it was reached out to us and very interested. But I think that the, the trajectory of this goes back to the late 50s, probably earlier.

• 7:33Speaker 00

  But definitely the decapitation of the presidency happened on Eisenhower's watch. And we know that Jackie Gleason knew this, and some people that, in my early days as a young doctor, when I first started this, I got to know some people who had known Eisenhower. And, and like one of our whistleblowers way back then, at the, when we kicked off the whole Disclosure Project effort in the mid 90s, it was called Project Starlight, code name, we were private. And then it went public in 01 with the National Press Club, that had 800 million people see it. And then 9/11 happened a few months later as a direct consequence, which we, I don't

• 8:15Speaker 00

  want to get into that much, but it was, this was going to get blown wide open. Interesting. They had to have, they had needed a diversion, so they created something called 9/11, and this was stuck in that world for 20 years. But what's fascinating about this so-called deep state is that it was a carryover out of World War II. And it started when a man who was one of the original founders of CIA, Alan Dulles, it was OSS during World War II. The other thing was... A guy named Paul Mellon.

• 8:53Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 8:54Speaker 00

  And Mellon was one of the few billionaires in the world at the end of World War II.

• 8:57Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 8:58Speaker 00

  I mean, a million, having billions of dollars in forty-five.

• 9:01Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 9:02Speaker 00

  Amazing. So Paul Mellon's grandson, who is John Warner IV, the, the, the son of Senator John Warner, I got to know years ago, and he said, "Look," first time I walked into his house. It's what, at the water gate, he has two, a huge place on the water, and, and John Warner IV, not his father, Senator Warner, but John Warner. He, I walk in, he goes, "Oh, my whole family are fascists." I went, "What?" He says, "Oh, yeah." So his, his grandfather, Paul Mellon.

• 9:34Jesse Michels?

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:35Speaker 00

  So Warner, his father, had married Paul Mellon's daughter. So it's very familial.

• 9:41Jesse Michels?

  Mm-hmm.

• 9:42Speaker 00

  This runs family back, way back. And he said, "Yeah," I mean, he was a huge supporter of Adolf Hitler and fascism, so was Henry Ford, so was Watson of IBM. So these were all hardcore, and so was Prescott Bush, George H.W. Bush's dad.

• 9:58Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 9:58Speaker 00

  They were known to be big supporters of fascism.

• 10:01Jesse Michels?

  They were at, like, Union Bank, Brown Brothers Harriman.

• 10:04Speaker 00

  Yep, all that.

• 10:05Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 10:05Speaker 00

  Chase Manhattan, the whole, the whole thing. So that was, went, put into kind of stasis for a few years till we won, I call it the Battle of World War II. And then those people sort of covertly surfaced after World War II.

• 10:20Jesse Michels?

  There's a story of John Warner IV, and he's having martinis, I believe, with, with Paul Mellon.

• 10:25Speaker 00

  That's what I'm talking about.

• 10:26Jesse Michels?

  Exactly.

• 10:26Speaker 00

  And he admitted this, and he admitted going over and getting a Nazi disk.

• 10:30Jesse Michels?

  That's right.

• 10:30Speaker 00

  That was not a ramjet, it was actually electro-gravitic.

• 10:34Speaker 02

  And my grandfather said, "Look, you know, we, we were in a facility, a hangar, and we saw, you know, a German-flying disk." And I said, you know, "Oh, is that the one that was cobbled together with six BMW jet engines?" And he laughed, and he said, "No."

• 10:51Speaker 00

  Now, some of them are extraterrestrial.

• 10:52Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 10:53Speaker 00

  I don't use the word alien, because people think it's someone from Guatemala or something, but,

• 10:58Speaker 00

  but an ETV, an extraterrestrial vehicle, or NHI craft, non-human intelligence craft.

• 11:04Speaker 00

  That's not what he brought back. It was a Nazi early prototype, but it wasn't stable. It took us from 1945 to 1954 to master what's called gravity control.

• 11:16Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 11:17Speaker 00

  And I have a man who was a whistleblower, but privately, who was the top scientist at the Naval Research Labs, who has passed away, so I'll say his name is Richard Foch, F-O-C-H. Rick had been in the vault and saw the documents for the date we mastered gravity control. And it was October 1954. So beginning in the late 50s forward, many of the UAPs, UFOs, whatever the new fake word is, are using for these things. That's also out of CI. We'll talk about the word usage and how it's a mind colonization. It's a mindfuck, excuse my language. But to think how these guys think, right? You had to get at their level.

• 11:59Speaker 00

  And so from there forward, they said they had captured or shot down a couple of ET craft. But they weren't starting from zero. They already had that, right? The Nazi disk. They had the T Townsend Brown electroggravitics, which became the foundation of Rand Corporation, by the way. And so-

• 12:19Jesse Michels?

  How do you know? That's interesting because I know Townsend Brown did some experiments in the 60s, right before his work got kind of covertly transferred to Northrop Grumman for the B2. And he did a presentation for Rand Corporation and then something happened. And so-

• 12:34Speaker 00

  Yep. But that started in the 20s.

• 12:37Jesse Michels?

  Well, his experiments, yeah.

• 12:39Speaker 00

  Okay. So late 1920s, they were using very high voltage material, resonant frequencies, certain frequencies of very high voltage, but low power. Not a lot of current.

• 12:51Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, low current, yeah.

• 12:52Speaker 00

  Low current. If you understand electromagnetism and power is, you know, the current times the voltage, right? The fact is, is that he was able to hit a sweet spot with certain crystalline materials.

• 13:04Jesse Michels?

  High K dielectrics.

• 13:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, and that would then levitate.

• 13:07Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 13:08Speaker 00

  Float. That was 28, 29. It was reproduced in Germany in the Kowski-Frost experiment. All this is in, by the way, the Disclosure Project Intelligence Archive. We've released it all. dpiarchive.com. Is that it? dpiarchive.com. And so anyone who wants to see it is there. If you can read, you'll learn it. But, so that- percolated along. So the covert programs with this go way back to the turn of the last century.

• 13:37Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 13:37Speaker 00

  Late 1800s, early 1900s. There are still top secret files on this issue from the late 1800s and early 1900s. We know this.

• 13:46Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 13:46Speaker 00

  Way back.

• 13:47Jesse Michels?

  Fascinating.

• 13:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, it is fascinating.

• 13:49Jesse Michels?

  And how do you know that it goes that far back?

• 13:52Speaker 00

  Because one of the very top people since 1979 at the CIA who's worked this issue is an intel source for me.

• 13:58Jesse Michels?

  So what is the secrecy? Because we think we associate it with the CIA, which was formed in 47, even OSS was 42 through 45.

• 14:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:06Jesse Michels?

  So like if it, this was like late 19th century. Is it Office of Naval Intelligence? Is it secret societies? Is it both? What's up, guys? I want to tell you about my new favorite boots. These things are epic. I've been wearing these everywhere. They're called Brunt. They're insanely comfortable and durable. These things last for years and they're super versatile. I wear them for hiking, for hanging out. They look pretty swaggy if you're going out. They even look good in work meetings. They feel incredibly comfortable. There's no annoying break in period. They just kind of form fit to your foot right off the bat. They're lightweight. You don't have to lug them around, but they're also super weather resistant, waterproof and durable. Brunt is committed to making sure you're 100% satisfied with your new

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• 15:31Speaker 00

  It was, again, it was military intelligence and scientists who were under contract and there were top secret things going on. See, people forget Nikola Tesla, not the fake Tesla cars with a little toy battery you plug in. No, I'm not talking about the fake Tesla. I'm talking about Nikola Tesla. You know, as Einstein was asked, what's it like being a genius? And he goes, I wouldn't know. You should ask Nikola Tesla.

• 15:56Jesse Michels?

  Ah.

• 15:57Speaker 00

  See, I think that was the real genius.

• 16:00Jesse Michels?

  I agree with you.

• 16:01Speaker 00

  Of the 20th century.

• 16:03Jesse Michels?

  Him and Townsend Brown in my opinion.

• 16:05Speaker 00

  Yes, and Faraday, Maxwell, they all had stumbled across this electromagnetic effect. So this is when I say we have 100, the lost century, everyone go see this documentary. It's a documentation of 100 years of lost technologies that are really advanced. And I don't mean the crap out of Silicon Valley. It's just peripheral garbage, you know, iPhones, all that stuff. It's just, that's not high tech. It's none of it. So the really high tech stuff, they slammed into a box. Because it would liberate, this is a libertarian's dream. It would liberate every home, every car, every factory, every country.

• 16:46Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 16:46Speaker 00

  Into energy independence, no pollution, and no poverty. But then that undercuts this uber elite oligarchy.

• 16:54Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 16:55Speaker 00

  The super powerful trillion dollar, I'm not talking Elon Musk, couple hundred billion. Nobody cares about 200 billion dollars.

• 17:02Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 17:02Speaker 00

  We're talking hundreds of trillions of dollars in assets.

• 17:05Jesse Michels?

  Can I say where I might disagree with you? I think we have these novel effects in the black around Townsend Brown, electroggravitics, things like that, extended electrodynamics. And then I, I'm not so sure, you might be right, but I'm not sure that we have like scalable zero point energy that could like take out the grid. Do you have high confidence that we have?

• 17:27Speaker 00

  I have 100% knowledge of it and absolutely.

• 17:30Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 17:30Speaker 00

  Absolutely, we have it. And you know what? The CEO of a Fortune 50 company. I'm sorry, chairman, not CEO, who's retired now, has approached us. Last year, as soon as he did, he had a wet works assassination team threaten to kill him and his entire family and grandchildren.

• 17:51Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 17:52Speaker 00

  So he's 80 now, but he wants to come forward and the first thing he said is, we have, we could have had free energy for the world and quote, decades and decades ago. Absolutely true.

• 18:03Jesse Michels?

  Is this company a Defense Prime, or is it?

• 18:06Speaker 00

  I won't comment, except it is one of the, it's a household name in the United States.

• 18:11Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 18:11Speaker 00

  And this is the former chairman.

• 18:13Jesse Michels?

  And he came to you saying,

• 18:14Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 18:15Jesse Michels?

  I want to get this out.

• 18:16Speaker 00

  Yes, but of course, this is why we're, get to this in a little while. Why some of the executive orders and things in Congress we've been working on, provides ironclad protection, not just legal, but physical, like federal marshal protection or Secret Service, to the HVT, high-value targets, very high-value whistleblowers. Because we have several categories of whistleblowers. I have 760-some whistleblowers that I've debriefed. Some of them are at such a high level that they're in serious risk, this is not a conspiracy theory, of just being whacked, right, killed, and their families. And we have to protect them.

• 19:00Speaker 00

  So the president needs to sign an executive order, and the Congress needs to enshrine in law, which they almost did in December of 23, a little over a year ago. But that got gutted in the reconciliation of the National Defense Authorization Act. And the part of it that I had helped consult on for Senate Intelligence Committee, because I've been in the SCIF there and done things for them, that got taken out and the reconciliation by some devils who are in the House of Representatives. We know who they are. And one of them got removed.

• 19:31Jesse Michels?

  Mike Turner.

• 19:33Speaker 00

  He got removed, because I blew the whistle on it. I said, that guy out.

• 19:38Jesse Michels?

  Well, he represented.

• 19:39Speaker 00

  Because here's the problem. If you are carrying water for a criminal conspiracy, a transnational corrupt organization, which is what this is, that is committing murder, abductions.

• 19:53Speaker 00

  Alien abductions are covert human programs, by the way, 100%. I mean, that's another big secret nobody knows. Then you're also committing embezzlement of monies, black budget money that's being embezzled, that the president and congress have not, have no knowledge of. You're murdering people. Take the whole federal penal code, throw it at these people. So where I am at this point, because I'm, look, in June I'll be 70. So I've been doing this for one hell of a long time since I was 35. My view of it at this point is, we're gonna have to get serious against these criminal elements, but if you're carrying water for them, if you're one of their shills or cut

• 20:35Speaker 00

  out, whether you're in congress, the senate, the public, or someone on your podcast, they need to be arrested and tried for treason and sedition against the United States. I'm going on the record and say that. And this is seriously being discussed. So I'm issuing this as a warning. This chicanery and nonsense, one way or another, is gonna come to a screeching halt. Because there are people, not just me, I've been saying this for 30 years. You go back and see what I saw in the meetings with the Clinton people back in 95, 93, 94, 95. I briefed the CIA director for Clinton in December 13th of 93.

• 21:15Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 21:16Speaker 00

  So, I mean, before probably you were born. But the point I'm making is that this is a really huge problem. So if, even if you're a low-level operative, you're just carrying water for this messaging, right? And disinforming the public or blocking bills, you are part of a criminal operation. And RICO, racketeering influenced corrupt organization, conspiracy, can be invoked and grabbed them all up.

• 21:42Jesse Michels?

  Speaking of Clinton, his deputy assistant secretary of defense for intelligence, Chris Mellon, has been responsible for pushing a lot of, you know, disclosure post 2017, this article with Leslie Kane, these videos that have come out, he and Lou Elizondo in the New York Times. How do you square that with Paul Mellon being one of the founders of the CIA?

• 22:06Speaker 00

  Because all three of the people you named are being told to tell part of the truth. And the partial truth is actually more damaging than than saying nothing. So if you tell people, one, we don't know what these are. So the all three of them say, so UAP, we don't know what they are. Bull, malarkey. Or in Texas, cowpods. I mean, it's just nonsense. But we know what they are. There are extraterrestrial vehicles, NHI vehicles. There are man-made ones. That's the majority that are seen now. That's the biggest secret. And then there are things that are extradimensional. They're not from another star system, from another dimension. They're not craft, they're beings.

• 22:49Speaker 00

  All that gets put into a blender and confused on purpose.

• 22:53Jesse Michels?

  Are there any time travelers?

• 22:54Speaker 00

  To gas, well, time and space is fungible.

• 22:56Jesse Michels?

  Mm hmm.

• 22:57Speaker 00

  Right? But I'm just want to stay on this for a minute. So if you're, if you're told, say this, but then misdirect the public on that.

• 23:06Jesse Michels?

  Mm hmm.

• 23:07Speaker 00

  Let me tell you how great counterintelligence works. You take truth, put it on the outside like a sweet coating. Inside this nice little piece of candy is the poison pill. So they'll come out and they'll say, these are real, but we don't know what they are. We don't know how they fly. Big lie. Or they'll say they're a threat to the national security. Well, the man-made ones are because they're running by a transnational criminal organization out of the control of the White House and the Congress.

• 23:41Jesse Michels?

  What is that organization? Do we have a name for it?

• 23:43Speaker 00

  Oh, it used to be called Majestic Twelve. The last, I know it's been, the last good name I can pinpoint on a document from the 90s from the NRO, National Reconnaissance Office, was MAGIC.

• 23:56Jesse Michels?

  MAGIC.

• 23:57Speaker 00

  Which is the Majority Joint Intelligence Committee, or just MAGI.

• 24:01Jesse Michels?

  And they're, they're, they're a global, they're transnational organization.

• 24:05Speaker 00

  Oh, absolutely.

• 24:06Jesse Michels?

  That coincides with different governments, national governments, but basically has, supersedes them, has power over them?

• 24:14Speaker 00

  Yes, yeah. I mean, it's what Senator Inouye, who is a Democrat, who was the chairman of the committee looking into Iran-Contra back in the 80s during the Reagan years, Hawaiian. And he said, but where, now he's the one who said, there exists a shadow or secret government. That's above the US government. That has its own funding mechanism, its own air force, its own navy. That's above the law and free from the law itself. I'm almost quoting, you can look it up. It's in our archives.

• 24:44Jesse Michels?

  How do they stay coordinated in the world of like smartphones and stuff where, you know?

• 24:50Speaker 00

  The regular guys at NSA don't have the level to keep that organization out. Because they have technologies that penetrate time-space. That go beyond electromagnetic conventional encryption.

• 25:04Jesse Michels?

  Do you think you've met any members of this majestic 12 or magic?

• 25:10Speaker 00

  Of course, sure. I have, for sure, for sure.

• 25:12Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 25:13Speaker 00

  And that's why, you know, back in 92.

• 25:15Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 25:16Speaker 00

  I was on Patrick Bet-David's show a couple weeks ago and he said, you know, what kind of, I said, well, in 92, General Stubblebine offered me $2 billion. To be part of his little cabal of goose-stepping fools.

• 25:30Jesse Michels?

  What did he say? So Stubblebine is what, Army counter intel?

• 25:33Speaker 00

  He was, I think at one time he had been of Army Intelligence and Special Forces. And whole career, but his career dealing with UFOs goes back to the 60s.

• 25:44Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 25:45Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 25:46Jesse Michels?

  So when did Stubblebine?

• 25:47Speaker 00

  I had an intel source who had worked with him way back then. Now remember, this is 1992. So this is 33 years ago in May, this May. And Bet-David thought, there's no way that was a serious, I said, oh yeah, it was. Because he knew I could make a lot of trouble for them. And that would have been a bargain, $2 billion, because I've caused a lot more trouble.

• 26:08Jesse Michels?

  Did they ever offer to show you a UFO and for to, so that you would stop talking?

• 26:14Speaker 00

  No, I mean, look, no, no amount of money or threats are going to get me to stop the mission I'm on that's to bring the truth out of this and let us start a real golden age where we have all these technologies, you know, with a super advanced society.

• 26:29Jesse Michels?

  Have you ever seen a UFO, not in the air, but in a hangar, in like a?

• 26:32Speaker 00

  Oh, taken to one of those places? I've been in places where they have been, I have not seen this, yeah. But I have many, many whistleblowers. See, one of my great gripes with the House Oversight Committee. They have not had a single legitimate whistleblower up there who's a direct firsthand person. And I find it very, very, very odd. Because I've met and discussed this with Grush and Luna and others. And I go, here, here's a hard drive. Unredacted.

• 27:00Jesse Michels?

  Well, you've spoken to David Grush?

• 27:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, I met, okay, let's go back a little bit.

• 27:04Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 27:04Speaker 00

  I met with Grush when he was still undercover operative.

• 27:09Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 27:09Speaker 00

  And no one knew who he was. His bosses were the ones I was providing intel to that helped him and other people get to find what he found.

• 27:17Jesse Michels?

  Who were, who were his bosses?

• 27:19Speaker 00

  I can't talk about that.

• 27:20Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 27:20Speaker 00

  There are people in, look, the Senate Intelligence Committee and Senate Armed Services had authorized, and a bill had been written to form Arrow at the Pentagon.

• 27:31Jesse Michels?

  Uh huh.

• 27:32Speaker 00

  And to have investigations on this. So the bosses in charge of that, at that level of intel, were the people who wanted him to go out.

• 27:41Jesse Michels?

  Do you?

• 27:42Speaker 00

  And one of them set up this meeting between me and, and Mr. Grush.

• 27:47Jesse Michels?

  Do you like David Grush? Do you feel like, do you find him to be an honest actor?

• 27:51Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, he absolutely, what he said about what he found, but again, he's secondhand. The, my whistleblowers are direct firsthand.

• 27:59Jesse Michels?

  He has said that he's actually had firsthand knowledge since getting that critique. So, and I don't know exactly what that is, but...

• 28:07Speaker 00

  Well, he's been pulled into some, but the problem is, he got attached to a gentleman named Luis Elizondo, who is mainly there to provide partial truths. And this is what I was talking about earlier. So, if, if you put out some information and then attach the disinformation to it, there's a threat. We need to, you know, go to World War III in an alien battle. We don't have these technologies ourselves. We've never developed that advance. When I have direct people who've worked on, built, and flown the man-made UFOs, right? So, these are your high-value target whistleblowers.

• 28:44Jesse Michels?

  You have a whistleblower who's flown an alien reproduction vehicle, a UFO that we've...

• 28:48Speaker 00

  Yes, and more importantly, the man who managed all the pilots.

• 28:52Jesse Michels?

  Did he say anything?

• 28:52Speaker 00

  Who flew them out of Edwards Air Force Base.

• 28:54Jesse Michels?

  Did he say what?

• 28:55Speaker 00

  Out of the Edwards complex.

• 28:56Jesse Michels?

  Did he say what it was like to fly in a UFO?

• 28:58Speaker 00

  Well, they're controlled from 1G. So in other words, they could be going 200,000 miles per hour, stop, make a turn. And now, if you were in a conventional aircraft, even if it could go that fast, your brains would come out through your nose.

• 29:13Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, that would from the G-force.

• 29:14Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. G-forces would just splatter you. But they can control, so really what they are, they're moving in an electromagnetic field spacetime bubble. So that they can move as if there's none of that gravitational effect.

• 29:29Jesse Michels?

  Did he say he was feeling, like he would feel like he was going fast?

• 29:32Speaker 00

  You can feel mostly like 1G or a little lighter.

• 29:37Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 29:37Speaker 00

  So, yeah, you don't feel that centripetal force or, you know.

• 29:42Jesse Michels?

  Aren't you worried you're gonna hit something at that speed? Like, it's just so...

• 29:45Speaker 00

  Well, if they do it right, they have, they've had some terrible disasters. I know a man, two different people who've been on retrieval teams of the triangular ones. So Northrop Grumman, my uncle was on the team that designed the lunar module.

• 30:00Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 30:01Speaker 00

  The first man on the moon.

• 30:01Jesse Michels?

  Oh, that's...

• 30:02Speaker 00

  And his whole career was Northrop Grumman. Now, this was not his portfolio, but he heard things, right? Because he was a senior project manager. Eventually moved out from Long Island, Bethpage, where they actually designed and built the lunar module that landed on the moon with Neil Armstrong, to California. But this was not his, because, you know, those special projects, let's call them, within Northrop Grumman and Lockheed Skunk Works are hermetically sealed from their normal business of jets and rockets and whatever, you know, the normal stuff. That's true of all these corporate contractors.

• 30:37Jesse Michels?

  It has to be because I think about like, you know, Chinese eating our lunch in hypersonics right now.

• 30:44Speaker 00

  Yes, right.

• 30:44Jesse Michels?

  So like, how is that possible and consistent with the fact that we have hyper-light-drive ships, you know, like those two things? But they're, so they just don't talk to each other? You have these secret black programs?

• 30:54Speaker 00

  They don't even know each other exists. They don't know each other exists. And so, the problem with that little secrecy, the Eisenhower foretold.

• 31:03Speaker 00

  Is that that entity can then take on a life of its own because of their technological capabilities, but not only in energy and propulsion, but in surveillance, right? So we haven't talked about that yet. And this is where you get into the really high end of psionics that Jake talks about a little bit, that I've been talking about since 1990. So the cheap end of it is the remote viewing programs that the CIA had, right? That's just the innate abilities and what Bob Monroe had with Hemisync, remote viewing, what we do with CE5 Contact. But the high end of it's an electromagnetic, transdimensional interface with consciousness and mind and technology.

• 31:48Jesse Michels?

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• 32:29Jesse Michels?

  Since I started taking Qualia Senolytic, I've felt a huge boost in energy and productivity. I'm sharper, more focused, and genuinely feel like I've rolled the clock back. And here's the kicker: you only need to take it two days a month. This science-backed formula is non-GMO, vegan, and designed to work synergistically to help your body shed those zombie cells. And with a 100-day money-back guarantee, there's zero risk in trying it out for yourself. So resist aging at the cellular level and try Qualia Senolytic. Go to qualialife.com/jesse for up to 50% off and use code JESSIE at checkout for an additional 15% off. For your convenience, Qualia Senolytic is also available at select GNC locations near

• 33:14Jesse Michels?

  you. That's Q-U-A-L-I-A life.com/jesse for an extra 15% off your purchase. Thanks so much to Qualia for sponsoring today's episode.

• 33:26Speaker 00

  Oh, sure.

• 33:27Jesse Michels?

  So then why aren't this because the

• 33:29Speaker 00

  But I mean, it's not like, you know, it's not like some science fiction, you hit a button and someone becomes an automaton. I mean, the automatons, like Jake talked about, Jake Barber talked about, who are these P3 operators go through a rigorous training program. So they can become like, almost like a machine, human machine interface between the people controlling them and the ET vehicles. So that's a very elaborate program, but what I tell people is that in the mid to late 50s, I had met a man who invented kind of a headset like he's wearing. That would basically put you in a state in consciousness so you could remote view distant places.

• 34:14Speaker 00

  56.

• 34:15Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 34:15Speaker 00

  And he offered it to me. I said, this is gonna be too hot to handle. I'm just dangerous enough what we're doing. If I have that, I'm a dead man. So, but the man was in his 80s by then, because that was 56, this would probably have been in 93 or 94.

• 34:33Speaker 00

  All kinds of people started coming to me in the early 90s after we had four ET craft materialize in the air in Florida, near Pensacola.

• 34:42Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 34:43Speaker 00

  That, my whole intention was simply to go out and attempt to make peaceful contact with groups of people with the ETs. But once the intelligence community saw that we knew how to do that, they came after me like a pack of rottweilers.

• 34:56Jesse Michels?

  So yeah, I want to tell that story, like how you got

• 34:59Speaker 00

  Nasty bit of business.

• 35:00Jesse Michels?

  So you were, you were an ER doctor and then you just, did you just feel inspired to start going out and doing CE5 protocols? Or how did this, how did this all begin?

• 35:09Speaker 00

  That's a very long story. Excuse me.

• 35:13Jesse Michels?

  Bless it.

• 35:14Speaker 00

  Just so people know, I just had emergency surgery last night for a ruptured appendix.

• 35:18Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, it's amazing that he's here.

• 35:22Speaker 00

  I'm an open book, folks, but I mean, it was like, oh my God. And as a doctor, emergency doctor, I go, this is bad. My assistant Raven, when we go, we go straight from Houston and drive to the Texas University Hospital.

• 35:35Jesse Michels?

  I can't believe it.

• 35:35Speaker 00

  And a friend of a friend knew a doctor, a surgeon there who could like open me up and do it.

• 35:40Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 35:41Speaker 00

  You know, it was, you know, I got home from the hospital.

• 35:44Jesse Michels?

  He seemed great to me.

• 35:45Speaker 00

  Oh, well. People say, you're a fucking machine. Anyway, but

• 35:51Speaker 00

  Well, you know what I told, I texted Jake before I got here.

• 35:55Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 35:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, and I said, Winston Churchill said, "Never, never, never give up."

• 35:59Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, I love that.

• 36:00Speaker 00

  So you just keep going.

• 36:01Jesse Michels?

  Always.

• 36:02Speaker 00

  But no, it's, I've been a little woozy. Hopefully, I'm being coherent here.

• 36:05Jesse Michels?

  No, you're being super coherent.

• 36:06Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 36:07Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 36:08Speaker 00

  That's why I'm having some matcha.

• 36:09Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, there you go. You're good. You're on point. So, okay, so, so the origin story. So you're an ER doctor.

• 36:14Speaker 00

  Well, I had a sighting first.

• 36:16Jesse Michels?

  Okay, you had a sighting.

• 36:17Speaker 00

  When I was eight or nine.

• 36:18Jesse Michels?

  Wow, yeah, that's right.

• 36:19Speaker 00

  And with a bunch of kids in the neighborhood, my twin sister.

• 36:21Jesse Michels?

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:21Speaker 00

  In Charlotte, North Carolina, where I grew up. And, uh, cause I did a chapel residency, that's why I'm a North Carolina guy.

• 36:28Jesse Michels?

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:28Speaker 00

  And, um, broad daylight, perfectly seamless disc.

• 36:33Jesse Michels?

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:34Speaker 00

  About sixteen, nineteen sixty-three, probably.

• 36:37Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 36:37Speaker 00

  Six, three, four. Around the time Kennedy was killed.

• 36:40Jesse Michels?

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:41Speaker 00

  And I went, "Wow, that's a UFO." As a little kid. Now, my parents thought we were just, like, making stuff up, right?

• 36:47Jesse Michels?

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:49Speaker 00

  Parents should believe their children when they see stuff. Anyway, so, um, so I ignited an interest that I had lifelong. Then my uncle, I just mentioned, was working on putting the first man on the moon, which happened in sixty-nine when I was fourteen. I'd just turned fourteen. And so I was, got very interested in all of that.

• 37:10Jesse Michels?

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:11Speaker 00

  And then, uh, when I was seventeen, it was my last year of high school, I got very sick. I got injured, I had an injury and got infected.

• 37:20Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 37:21Speaker 00

  And I grew up, people don't know this, in a shack. Very poor. No heat, no air conditioning. Had a kerosene heater in the floor. Uh, we were starving on the streets, literally. I had all, we had all kinds of problems. So I had, ended up getting on my own and had a apartment in high school. Uh, I was tall and hairy, so everyone thought I was twenty when I was sixteen. Hilarious story. And so I washed pots and pans at a Red Lobster to get through high school, and then would bicycle to school, but I got worn down.

• 37:54Jesse Michels?

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:55Speaker 00

  And I got very sick. I had a near-death experience. So my parents were, didn't believe in God, didn't believe in anything, didn't believe in a soul, didn't believe in an afterlife, didn't believe in consciousness. And then this, I went, well, they're wrong. There's a whole new cosmos out here. So I had this amazing near-death experience, which introduced me to the whole science of consciousness. Right? So six months, so about a month later, or a couple of months later, on my eighteenth birthday, I learned meditation. Back in the day, and I'm dating myself, nineteen seventy-three, when the whole zeitgeist was transcendental meditation and the Maharishi and all that. So I learned to meditate.

• 38:37Speaker 00

  And I had these amazing experiences in consciousness, like cosmic consciousness, beautiful experiences. And that's where the near-death experience was, well, thank you, God, that actually helped get me on a path. But, six months later, October of seventy-three, I'm up in the mountains of North Carolina, if you're in the Blue Ridge Mountains, up near Boone. And there's a, so I climbed up this mountain, up over five thousand feet. And I'm up there before sunset to meditate. And I look up, and that same craft, well, it looked the same, I can't say it was the same one,

• 39:18Speaker 00

  that I saw when I was a kid, when I was eight, now I'm eighteen, just turned eighteen, appears in the afternoon sky, crystal clear October day.

• 39:26Jesse Michels?

  What did the craft look like?

• 39:28Speaker 00

  It was a disk, a seamless disk, not a thin disk, but like, you know, kind of that shape. And seamless, the sun shining off of it, fully materialized, and then it didn't move off, it just disappeared.

• 39:43Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 39:44Speaker 00

  Because the interstellar ones could do it, they can be here and just boom. So I went, oh, they're back. I didn't think anything about it, right? I said, oh, that's cool, another sighting. So I sit to meditate, go into deep meditation. And at the end of it, I come out of it, and it was very long, longer than I thought it had gotten dark. So this is near sunset when I saw the craft, and it's October seventy-three. And it was kind of beautiful, because I looked up, and you could see the whole Milky Way galaxy, it was crystal clear. And you're up over five thousand feet, up in the Blue Ridge. And at that moment, a beautiful thought came and said,

• 40:27Speaker 00

  Beware what a beautiful universe God has made. And with that, I'd noticed over the rise of the top of the crest of the mountain where I was, there was a fire tower I was sitting at the base of. And the local was called a fartar. North Carolina, it's fartar, not fire tower. I looked, there was a glow, and then there was this creature that came over. And he, she, I don't know, was maybe about five feet tall. Beautiful deer-like eyes. Came over and touched me on my right shoulder.

• 41:06Speaker 00

  And my, at that time, I had long hair and a lot of hair. And my hair went boing and it just stuck out. And then I boom, sort of vanished on this craft. For about, I thought it was forty minutes or so. Or half hour to an hour, somewhere, and it was like four hours.

• 41:24Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 41:25Speaker 00

  Because time-space is different. And that's where we sort of co-created and invented the CE5 contact protocols.

• 41:32Jesse Michels?

  So you kind of downloaded it from that experience?

• 41:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, or I was, it was collaborative. It was like me experiencing that state of consciousness as a human in nineteen seventy-three, and them understanding humans from where they are, which is thousands of years in the future.

• 41:48Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 41:48Speaker 00

  Right? So it was this very, people say metaphysical, it wasn't, it was very physical. But very, and very real, but very, almost like a lucid dream. Because when you go into that state, it's, it's almost like a lucid interface between three D and four and five and six D, you know what I mean? It's very abstract in a lot of ways, but...

• 42:09Jesse Michels?

  Are there ancient versions of this protocol?

• 42:12Speaker 00

  Oh, sure.

• 42:12Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 42:13Speaker 00

  Native peoples. I think this is all such a revelation to just the last few hundred years since the scientific revolution, where we threw the science of consciousness and spirituality out with the bathwater.

• 42:26Jesse Michels?

  Right.

• 42:26Speaker 00

  Right? Because it fell into the Middle Ages as a superstition, and then burning witches at the stake, and, and all that, that the scientific revolution said, we don't want any part of that.

• 42:36Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 42:37Speaker 00

  We're gonna come into a time where the science of consciousness and this understanding is gonna merge. And I know Jake Barber and others understand this with other, what we call science. Because it is a science. And that's what I discovered by studying the Vedas and the ancient Sanskrit from India. It's not Hinduism, by the way. Predates Hinduism and Buddhism. And so after this experience.

• 43:04Jesse Michels?

  Don't they have flying saucers in the text as well?

• 43:06Speaker 00

  Oh, absolutely. Bhagavad Gita and the ancient Vimananas.

• 43:10Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 43:10Speaker 00

  And these are thousands of years old. They predate Christ, Krishna. They predate all those.

• 43:15Jesse Michels?

  And there's like spinning mercury at the center or something?

• 43:17Speaker 00

  Well, that's maybe.

• 43:19Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 43:19Speaker 00

  But definitely, there were objects like that recorded thousands of years ago. So I said, well, there's really nothing that new under the sun, right? You know, but.

• 43:30Jesse Michels?

  So at what point do all these intelligence and military people enter your lives? You have Colonel John Alexander, who has a long history in ufology, often debunking things, trying or attempting to debunk things.

• 43:43Speaker 00

  Well, that's his job. Look, people do what they're told to do.

• 43:45Jesse Michels?

  Okay, okay.

• 43:46Speaker 00

  Look, I mean, if you're someone on the payroll and you're told you do this, or we kill you, or if you do it, we'll make you very wealthy and comfortable for the rest of your life.

• 43:54Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 43:55Speaker 00

  Most people aren't gonna do what I'm gonna do.

• 43:57Jesse Michels?

  Is that why?

• 43:58Speaker 00

  I said, sit on it and rotate to stumble by. I'm sorry, I'd be vulgar.

• 44:03Jesse Michels?

  The two billion?

• 44:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:05Jesse Michels?

  Do you have that in writing, the offer?

• 44:06Speaker 00

  Oh, God, of course not. Don't be naive. No, but it was, I have witnesses to it. I mean, he then went to my wife, tried to convince her. But what I'm saying is that most people have a price.

• 44:17Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 44:17Speaker 00

  In either blackmail, threats, or money, or position, or power. Like, I've known a couple billionaires. All they wanted to do is get access to the secret technologies. And understand and see stuff. Bigelow was one of those. Because I knew him at the Rockefeller Ranch in 93. Right? When Rockefeller hosted all these folks.

• 44:36Jesse Michels?

  Lawrence Rockefeller, right?

• 44:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:38Jesse Michels?

  And he, did he fund some of your work as well?

• 44:40Speaker 00

  Early on, he did. And it got intercepted by some people on his team who were nots, nonofficial covers for the CIA.

• 44:47Jesse Michels?

  It's so interesting, though, Rockefeller. You have Mellon, Rockefeller, like, all these old families seems very interested in this sort of tech.

• 44:53Speaker 00

  Not just interested, but involved.

• 44:54Jesse Michels?

  Involved, okay.

• 44:56Speaker 00

  Then Lawrence was the philosopher king of the family. David.

• 45:01Jesse Michels?

  He seemed like a good guy, Lawrence.

• 45:02Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 45:03Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 45:03Speaker 00

  But he was surrounded by devils. These people get so, they don't know it. They get surrounded by these operatives. And it's like, you know, the expression, smile, smile and be a villain?

• 45:11Jesse Michels?

  I've never heard that, but.

• 45:13Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 45:13Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 45:14Speaker 00

  Well, in literature.

• 45:15Jesse Michels?

  Uh huh.

• 45:16Speaker 00

  Boy, we need to reinstitute education.

• 45:18Jesse Michels?

  Uh huh.

• 45:19Speaker 00

  Sorry.

• 45:19Jesse Michels?

  Catch me up.

• 45:20Speaker 00

  I know, I'm terrible. You imagine growing up, my four daughters, oh my God. If I used a word they didn't know, I'd say atavistic, I think.

• 45:28Jesse Michels?

  No, I think.

• 45:28Speaker 00

  Go look it up.

• 45:29Jesse Michels?

  I think we need more, more shaming around cultural illiteracy like I just displayed. So I appreciate that. I'm now extra motivated.

• 45:37Speaker 00

  No, no, I'm just ribbing you. Um, don't take me too seriously about that, but um, you're a smart guy. Uh, but you know, it was, it was quite clear that Lawrence had greatest intentions.

• 45:50Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 45:51Speaker 00

  But he also, he had said this to me. His brother, David Rockefeller and Jay Rockefeller, who had been chairman of Senate Intelligence, the Senator Rockefeller from West Virginia. They were jumping up on his, I'll tell you what he told me.

• 46:09Jesse Michels?

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• 46:52Jesse Michels?

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• 47:37Jesse Michels?

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• 47:52Speaker 00

  Late one night, we go out on the deck of the ranch.

• 47:54Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 47:55Speaker 00

  The J Y Ranch.

• 47:56Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 47:56Speaker 00

  And the Rockefeller Ranch and the Tetons. Because the Rockefellers owned the Tetons, the whole ranch, and gave it to the US government. And then they kept out this beautiful ranch. And that's where the Clintons would go that in the summer for vacation to learn about this. But the ranch had this beautiful cabin on at Lodge. And we were late one night out on the deck and he said, I asked him, I said, look, now this is 90, 90, September 93. And remember, I'm very new to this, but I'm got pulled in very quickly after the intelligence community realized that we could make contact.

• 48:40Speaker 00

  But there were people who were friendly to this. So you have the white hats and the black hats, let's say. That more, the, the, there were people who wanted this to get fixed and people who never wanted this to come out, right? So the ones who don't are implacable enemies. The ones that do try to help, whether they're doing it overtly or covertly.

• 49:02Jesse Michels?

  And Lawrence was trying to help?

• 49:03Speaker 00

  He was trying to help, but his, but his nephew.

• 49:08Speaker 00

  The Senator Jay Rockefeller and his brother, Chase Manha- Chairman of Chase Manhattan.

• 49:13Jesse Michels?

  David Rockefeller?

• 49:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, which came, yeah, David.

• 49:15Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 49:15Speaker 00

  They didn't want, he, he said, "They are already jumping up and down on my nuts." That's what he said.

• 49:20Jesse Michels?

  Ah.

• 49:21Speaker 00

  For even having this meeting with you.

• 49:23Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 49:24Speaker 00

  So, I said, "No," yeah, it's so, because I'd asked him, I said, "We need help."

• 49:28Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 49:28Speaker 00

  And you can help us.

• 49:30Jesse Michels?

  So you feel like he got kind of stymied by his family?

• 49:33Speaker 00

  Family, and later by people on his team that betrayed him.

• 49:37Jesse Michels?

  Because he was funding John Mack as well, right?

• 49:39Speaker 00

  Yes, that was part of the betrayal.

• 49:41Jesse Michels?

  And he, I think he-

• 49:42Speaker 00

  Because he, he was, he was moved his funds over into people who meant well, like John Mack. I knew John Mack pretty well, but who-

• 49:49Jesse Michels?

  Did he like John Mack? Did he find him to be an honest actor?

• 49:53Speaker 00

  He was doing the best he could with what he knew.

• 49:56Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 49:57Speaker 00

  So, but you-

• 49:58Jesse Michels?

  He's kind of a hero of mine. I think he's great.

• 49:59Speaker 00

  But, well, no, but if you're working with only two cards out of a fifty-two, fifty-two card deck.

• 50:06Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 50:06Speaker 00

  So he had two cards out of the fifty-two cards.

• 50:09Jesse Michels?

  For the audience, John Mack, head of the Harvard Psychiatry Department.

• 50:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, did all the work with the, the abductions and stuff.

• 50:15Jesse Michels?

  Exactly. Childhood friend of Bud Hopkins, who got into all these, he just started regressing people and-

• 50:20Speaker 00

  But what they didn't know, every one of those cases that were being funneled to him.

• 50:24Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 50:25Speaker 00

  Were all done by humans. None of them were extraterrestrial.

• 50:28Jesse Michels?

  I want to get into this with you, because you've said, so one of the most famous cases, abduction cases in, you know, US history, that I think the Obama's production team is now making a, a show on for Netflix, or a movie on, is the Betty and Barney Hill case of nineteen sixty-one.

• 50:42Speaker 00

  Yep, yep.

• 50:42Jesse Michels?

  And you say that that was perpetrated by humans and not aliens.

• 50:46Speaker 00

  Well, I, I, it very likely was, but only because the mechanism, how it happened, would not be consistent with interstellar, trans-dimensional technologies. We also know that by that date, I think, when that's sixty-one or something like that, we already had fully operational, man-made, electro-vitic craft with people who were made to look like aliens and stage, it was called stagecraft, doing this. Now, John Mack didn't know that, Bud Hopkins didn't know that.

• 51:17Jesse Michels?

  You think we can do that sixty-one?

• 51:19Speaker 00

  We absolutely could have.

• 51:20Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 51:21Speaker 00

  So what I'm saying is, here's what I'm trying to say, I want to be very clear on this. I'm not saying no one's had contact with ETs. I did. Wouldn't be here if I hadn't had that contact. Jake had that consciousness contact with the egg he picked up.

• 51:37Speaker 00

  Profound, and I did too. In seventy-three. But, and it was beautiful. And these civilizations are completely, not only are they benign, they're, they be closer to an angel than a demon. But.

• 51:52Jesse Michels?

  That's what some of your critics say, is you summon stuff and it can be not always good, you know?

• 51:57Speaker 00

  Oh, well, I mean, those are the religious nuts that are like, you know, end of the world eschatology fanatics.

• 52:04Jesse Michels?

  But there have to be some bad, like, just like us, right?

• 52:07Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. I'm sure there are, but they're not allowed out of their solar system.

• 52:11Jesse Michels?

  You think so?

• 52:11Speaker 00

  Oh, I know that.

• 52:12Jesse Michels?

  So you think that's like?

• 52:13Speaker 00

  I know what the, I know what the protocols are for, let's say, Real Space Command, not the US Space Command.

• 52:20Jesse Michels?

  Do you believe in anything demonic in that world, in the world of the ET thing?

• 52:24Speaker 00

  Well, see, now you just mixed up two of the three categories that I elucidated. There are extraterrestrial vehicles, there are NHI craft. There are man-made look-alikes and facsimiles. And there are things from other dimensions that are really nasty.

• 52:39Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 52:39Speaker 00

  That are not extraterrestrial.

• 52:41Jesse Michels?

  And you're saying if you?

• 52:42Speaker 00

  But they're being deliberately conflated by people like Jim Samyvan and Elizondo and others to gaslight people in Congress.

• 52:51Jesse Michels?

  But wouldn't Jacques Vallée have said that to you? Wouldn't he sort of say?

• 52:54Speaker 00

  No, because in the eighties, he got taken in by that organization.

• 52:57Jesse Michels?

  You think Jacques Vallée is, is co-opted by?

• 53:00Speaker 00

  He absolutely did get.

• 53:01Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 53:01Speaker 00

  A hundred percent, we know. Know who did it, how they did it, what he got.

• 53:05Jesse Michels?

  Can he say anything more?

• 53:06Speaker 00

  No, I won't. I'm just saying.

• 53:08Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 53:08Speaker 00

  We are not gonna tolerate people who spread. knowingly or unknowingly disinformation that could lead to an interplanetary war and the termination of life on earth.

• 53:21Jesse Michels?

  Well, that'd be a bummer.

• 53:22Speaker 00

  That's what that agenda is. Don't be naive. How do you get the minds and hearts of people?

• 53:26Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 53:27Speaker 00

  To unite against some totalitarian global threat unless they've been brainwashed for decades with abductions and mutilations and false images and Hollywood movies? That's what that is. It's a CIA psychological warfare operation.

• 53:43Jesse Michels?

  I don't get that vibe from Jacques Vallée, though. I think he's a little deeper as far as.

• 53:47Speaker 00

  He's much deeper now.

• 53:48Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 53:49Speaker 00

  No, he's completely come out of that.

• 53:52Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 53:53Speaker 00

  But back in the day.

• 53:54Jesse Michels?

  Uh huh.

• 53:55Speaker 00

  Like astronaut Edgar Mitchell invited me to brief the Board of Neuetic Sciences back years ago.

• 54:02Jesse Michels?

  That's pretty cool.

• 54:03Speaker 00

  And Jacques Vallée and I were there for this weekend, this retreat. Eventually Claiborne Pell, Senator Pell came.

• 54:11Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. That's really interesting. Claiborne Pell is, you know, Senator, he was Biden's closest mentor.

• 54:16Speaker 00

  And he was part, and Claiborne Pell, I found out later after he died, was part of this cabal.

• 54:22Jesse Michels?

  Well, he was interested in all this stuff.

• 54:23Speaker 00

  Yes, but he was also carrying water for that organization.

• 54:26Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 54:27Speaker 00

  Yeah. So now, look, I mean, this has been a 35 year thing.

• 54:30Jesse Michels?

  When you say that organization, is that magic or?

• 54:32Speaker 00

  Yes, this covert transnational thing that we gave you the graphic for, you guys can show to the public.

• 54:38Jesse Michels?

  Well, it is interesting what was rumored, so the MJ12 documents came out from 84, it was a string of documents, 84 into the 90s.

• 54:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm aware of that.

• 54:45Jesse Michels?

  And in the Majestic 12 was a guy named Detlev Brunk. And Detlev Brunk was, I believe, president of the Rockefeller Foundation for a little bit.

• 54:55Speaker 00

  Yes. Look, all the big industrialists. So first of all, let's ratchet this back a little bit.

• 55:01Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, sure.

• 55:02Speaker 00

  What the definition of fascism is. Nowadays, if someone disagrees with you, you're a fascist. Everyone's a Nazi, everyone's a fascist. Let's put that aside. The actual definition of fascism is very powerful industrial corporate interest taking over and overly influencing the government of we the people and corrupting and are moving in the direction so that the government is serving the interests of those large oligarch corporate interests.

• 55:34Jesse Michels?

  Those, yeah.

• 55:35Speaker 00

  So in the industrial revolution and era, it would have been that crowd, JP, you know, Morgan, Rockefeller. Now it's the big tech companies and others. We know how it works. You know, I have a guy who's with NSA, who was in meetings with some of the senior C-suite people at a major tech and telecommunications company, sort of colluding.

• 55:58Jesse Michels?

  Well, we know from Snowden.

• 56:00Speaker 00

  Completely illegal stuff, right?

• 56:02Jesse Michels?

  We know from Snowden, they had backdoors, they had Bull Run and Prism, and I don't think this was done unbeknownst to Google and Apple, and so we know that they-

• 56:10Speaker 00

  Oh, it was with their cooperation.

• 56:11Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 56:12Speaker 00

  All right. But it reaches a point where it also becomes collusion between the element within what is being called the deep state, which is a misnomer in a way. But let's just call it that. And these corporate interests. Because they have an interest in not letting the public know the truth, because the truth leads inexorably to the release of the tech that's going to terminate oil, gas, coal, nuclear, wind, solar, hydroelectric, all of it.

• 56:44Jesse Michels?

  What do you think of Bob Lazar? So Bob Lazar, obviously famous, you know, UFO whistleblower. Claimed to be at S4, a special compartment of Area 51, 1987. Some files get put on George Knapp's desk from this CIA cargo pilot named John Lear, saying, here's this guy, Bob Lazar, and, you know, he's been reverse engineering craft, and the craft looks like Billy Myers' sports model, it's this, you know, UFO. Do you think Bob Lazar is legit and actually worked at Area 51 on reverse engineering?

• 57:14Speaker 00

  You know, I have had no one corroborate that. So if you follow what I do, if I have information on-

• 57:24Speaker 00

  The UFO's interest in our nuclear programs. I'll have half a dozen, a dozen guys who don't know each other, who have not colluded or synced up their stories to confirm that. I've not had anyone confirm his presence there at that time and what he actually saw.

• 57:44Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 57:44Speaker 00

  Now, I think he probably saw something. He was there a short time. So what he might have been provided was part information and part disinformation, and a controlled leak happened.

• 57:58Jesse Michels?

  I think.

• 57:58Speaker 00

  To gaslight. Okay, so let me explain how very sophisticated counterintelligence works. Again, you have information, as that's the sweet candy on the outside. But then, quite unwittingly, I think he could have been given some false information because things were beginning to come out and they wanted to gaslight people off the path.

• 58:19Jesse Michels?

  He admits that. He says maybe, because he was forced to drink a liquid.

• 58:22Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 58:23Jesse Michels?

  And then he was given information that looked like the same information Rick Doty gave Linda Moulton Howe and Paul Benowitz in 79.

• 58:30Speaker 00

  Happens all the time.

• 58:31Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 58:31Speaker 00

  Happens all the time.

• 58:32Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 58:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:33Jesse Michels?

  So you think, that's what's so tough about this topic, is there's always disinfo riddled in the info, and then you can always...

• 58:40Speaker 00

  But that's been, that's been my job, is to pull that together. I call it the disclosure matrix, or the disclosure mosaic, actually. The mosaic is, like, you want to create an accurate picture, and you have to get a thousand pieces, billion pieces.

• 58:55Jesse Michels?

  It's just so hard.

• 58:56Speaker 00

  And put it together.

• 58:57Jesse Michels?

  It's so hard to talk about, because even like, you know, bringing up the Majestic 12, that's like seen as a joke. But then you could say, oh, maybe James Jesus Angleton, who's running counterintelligence for the program for decades, actually kind of pushed this. And there were, there were elements of, you know, falsifiable things sprinkled in to some truths.

• 59:15Speaker 00

  There are.

• 59:16Jesse Michels?

  That's what I think.

• 59:17Speaker 00

  We know that.

• 59:17Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, I know. But like, what, and then you say it, but it has this like jokey connotation. MJ 12, like, come on. MJ 12, you know, it's a, it's a great tactic.

• 59:25Speaker 00

  But there, look, that whole operation, everyone says military intelligence is an oxymoron. It isn't. I mean, there are some incredibly brilliant people.

• 59:36Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 59:36Speaker 00

  Particularly in these psyops dealing with this.

• 59:39Jesse Michels?

  What's your process?

• 59:40Speaker 00

  And they're very, very slick.

• 59:42Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 59:42Speaker 00

  And they're very good.

• 59:43Jesse Michels?

  How do you know? So like... Somebody, you know, like Randy Anderson, who I've interviewed, who, you know, said he was taken down to an underground facility.

• 59:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm not here for a few years.

• 59:54Jesse Michels?

  And he, again, came to you first, and so I want to, you should, you should be given a lot of credit for all these whistleblowers who were coming out. Or Jake Barber, who said he was red teaming you initially. He came to kind of infiltrate your camp. How do you verify that somebody is, you know, actually has your best interests at heart and is being truthful to you? Because for me, just being very real, often it's like, I think I've gotten certain things wrong. And I think I just try to, you know, suss out people's energy, but then also, obviously, look for as much cross-corroboration that isn't correlated with the source. But like, I have to have, you know, a certain percentage of humility where it's like, I've probably gotten things wrong before.

• 1:00:37Speaker 00

  Oh, sure, absolutely.

• 1:00:38Jesse Michels?

  You feel the same way?

• 1:00:39Speaker 00

  Look, the 1997 briefings we did for Congress, all site at the Westin Hotel, we had somebody who made it very far into that process, who, and thank God, my military advisor, and, I think it was Edgar Mitchell, and one of my other whistleblowers were at the bar with this guy late one night, the night before we had the meeting for Congress. And the day before, we had had a gathering so all these whistleblowers could get to know each other, create an esprit de corps, you know, kind of make them feel safe because they're all doing it together, because it's scary. And this, this guy that we thought was legit, started prattling on with some absolutely

• 1:01:24Speaker 00

  provable false information. And some of his information was true, but he was going to fold in and embellish it into things that were false. And I got a knock on the door at 3:00 a.m. and said, "This guy is putting in stuff that we absolutely know is false." I said, "Ask him to go home." So I pulled him out of the meeting. So, guy, the guy hates my guts, right? Because this is going to be his thing to stand up from. I mean, Dan Burton, who was chairman of Oversight Committee for the House, who issued a Thousand subpoenas for Bill Clinton, right? During the Monica Lewinsky and all that nonsense. So I said, no, he's out.

• 1:02:03Speaker 00

  So, look, yes, of course, I mean, I'm one man, but, and I have mostly a volunteer team. The high place, the wealth place people. But yeah, I mean, I have, I've been gaslit and deceived and betrayed and. Ultimately, it's like what I was saying, you shall know them by their deeds. But what do they do? Eventually, someone's gonna show their ass, right? And then they're out, you know? And for me, I know it sounds rough. You get one bite at that apple. Because what we're dealing with at the level of, say, a president or Congress or the public information. Is that this is too important a matter to be, allow someone who's in there sort of telling half truths.

• 1:02:47Speaker 00

  And this is why I will immediately separate with someone who co-mingles known false information with information. Now, if they do it unwittingly, it's okay, as long as they correct it. If they're doing it deliberately, like Luis Elizondo, it's a bridge too far. Now, I'll forgive anything if someone comes clean, right?

• 1:03:06Jesse Michels?

  What's the daylight between you and Lou Elizondo as far as the substance you are? Because, I mean, I think you're putting out more.

• 1:03:13Speaker 00

  You keep interrupting me, but I will tell you if you'll let me finish.

• 1:03:16Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, sure.

• 1:03:17Speaker 00

  Number one, he tells people, and has told people consistently, we don't know what these are. Now, he's changed that a little because he has to. Then he said they're a threat to the national security. The implication being the NHI, non-human, are a threat. Which, if that's the case, then we're gonna go to World War III in a Star Wars fiasco. And it's a complete false narrative.

• 1:03:41Jesse Michels?

  He's kind of walked that back, though.

• 1:03:42Speaker 00

  Well, he has to, because we're gonna, this is, we're done with that. And then he would also say, we don't have anything that flies like that. So like when David Fravor and I first spoke, who was the F-18 Hornet pilot.

• 1:03:57Speaker 00

  And it was a serendipitous meeting because there's a band called Godsmack. That's a heavy metal band.

• 1:04:04Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:05Speaker 00

  And the lead guy, Sully Arna, is a friend of mine. And it turned out he lived across the road from David Fravor. Because his daughter had backed into his mailbox and broke it and they went, oh, it's David Fravor. Really funny. The universe works in strange ways.

• 1:04:20Jesse Michels?

  That is a crazy synchronicity.

• 1:04:22Speaker 00

  So Sully Arna calls me up, says, this Godsmack lead singer guy. And I go, really? He's your neighbor? Well, get him on the horn, let's talk. This is some years ago. And David goes, oh, yeah, that was, you know, it had to be alien. I said, sir, with all due respect, that was how the Lockheed skunk works.

• 1:04:42Jesse Michels?

  Really? That made the craft?

• 1:04:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, that was one of ours.

• 1:04:46Jesse Michels?

  And?

• 1:04:47Speaker 00

  And he is now.

• 1:04:48Jesse Michels?

  Because Fravor wouldn't say that now.

• 1:04:51Speaker 00

  Oh, he did say so recently.

• 1:04:52Jesse Michels?

  But in front of Congress?

• 1:04:54Speaker 00

  Well, he's been told since then, he's corrected. So I said, no, that came out of the Lockheed skunk works, it's one of ours. It was something that they did on purpose to see our, this global organization, to see how our military would react.

• 1:05:08Jesse Michels?

  So you think that Tic Tac was?

• 1:05:11Speaker 00

  Oh, absolutely. In the book we're going to give you, there is a very good account of it from 1967 over Pennsylvania. And we have a whistleblower who saw it being offloaded out of a big ship out of the, in 1991, I believe. So, yeah, but that's ours.

• 1:05:30Jesse Michels?

  That was off, that was in?

• 1:05:30Speaker 00

  And then later, very recently, a Lockheed executive admitted to David Fravor, that was theirs.

• 1:05:37Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 1:05:37Speaker 00

  But I knew that, I knew from the first time I saw it, I said, oh, we're CNN, I go, that's not extraterrestrial, that's one of ours.

• 1:05:44Jesse Michels?

  But David Fravor feels pretty no nonsense to me. Do you think he's knowingly lying?

• 1:05:49Speaker 00

  No, he is a totally straight up guy.

• 1:05:51Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:51Speaker 00

  But let me unpack this a little bit, if you'll let me, and just stay with me for a minute. If you're a, if you're a pilot flying jets, which are circa 30s, 40s, 50s.

• 1:06:03Speaker 00

  Or a guy doing stuff with rockets like Mr. Musk, which is circa nineteen forty's, right? The V two, that's Vern von Braun. So a rocket, they're fancier now on better computers. It's, the technology is very old. It's a Roman candle, a Chinese candle, going up and blowing up periodically. So this is primitive junk. I mean, it's all junk. So it is compared to what we have out in these covert programs. So you have no foundation to have been read in. If you're an F eighteen pilot, why would you be read into something the President of the United States isn't read into? But why wouldn't?

• 1:06:45Speaker 00

  And so the same is true if you're working for an aerospace company, but you're working on the conventional end of it. So they're, they're not, they're saying the truth as they know it. And the danger, here's the danger, I want to get to this big key point. If you don't know there are three major things going on, ET, manmade, and this weird stranger thing, sort of extradimensional spooky stuff, and that they're deliberately being co-mingled to obfuscate, hide the truth, you're going to get it wrong. So that is the core of how the psychological warfare operations work.

• 1:07:25Speaker 00

  Because most people, and this is from, whether you're the President or the King of England, you're not going to know enough unless you've done a huge deep dive into this, which has been my task, to try to unravel this mess. Because when I started out, I thought everything that went bump in the night was alien. I did. Ninety, you know, early on. And it wasn't until I started having people come forward who said, oh, we piloted these. And then I had guys come forward who had actually been on the abduction squads, made to look like aliens. Whoa. And they said, oh, no. You've met people who've like? Committed those crimes. Wow. Yeah, and they feel terrible later in life. So if they were very young, they were young guys doing it.

• 1:08:07Speaker 00

  Now they're like seventy, eighty years old, they feel terrible about what they did. They regret it, but they said, if we talk about this publicly, they will absolutely kill us because that's the heart of the secrecy is the mind control stuff, the sort of psychological world. They want everyone to believe there's a threat from out there because the card they want to play that Verna Von Braun warned about on his deathbed to my friend Carol Rosin was they want to create an alien threat to unite the world in this sort of dystopian, not a golden age, but a dark age of militaristic totalitarianism. So if Lou and his guys move in that direction, I got to call it out. And people say, well, you're not very friendly. I said, no, I said, we got to protect the human future. I mean,

• 1:08:51Speaker 00

  where are we going to end up? Now, where's the end of this algorithm going? You run this algorithm like they're doing it. Oh, we don't have any craft like that because they don't want the National Military Command structure to know that something they encounter like Mr. Fravor did was ours. And therefore they'll say, oh, it's alien. Oh, therefore we're going to engage in this war. This is how you start wars. This is how you get in disasters like after nine eleven when we went into Iraq and Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with that. And he didn't have the weapons of mass destruction. This is how you connect the next big war. This is what happened with COVID. They took a dangerous virus. It got loose and then they shut the world down, even though the World Health

• 1:09:34Speaker 00

  Organization emits now. That was a big public health mistake. So the problem becomes this being mishandled by this president in Congress, because this is all going to come out in the next year or two, will be a thousand times worse than with the mishandling of COVID or nine eleven. So we're out of, we're out of time to get the information out in a truthful way, but a truth that can lead to a future that is a golden era of peace, prosperity, a pristine planet that gets fixed, the end of poverty and peace here and in space. You cannot have peace on earth and engage in war in space.

• 1:10:15Jesse Michels?

  I would hope.

• 1:10:16Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:10:17Jesse Michels?

  Agreed. Well, I would, I would.

• 1:10:18Speaker 00

  But that's, stop.

• 1:10:20Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:20Speaker 00

  But this, the people that you're talking about.

• 1:10:23Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:23Speaker 00

  It's the inescapable conclusion of what they're saying opens the pathway to that. This, see, protecting the human future and consciousness of what kind of world we're gonna have, that's actually my central mission. It's not the Disclosure Project.

• 1:10:40Jesse Michels?

  I would hope that if David Fravor got told by Lockheed exec, hey, this is one of ours, he would come clean about that.

• 1:10:46Speaker 00

  Well, my assistant can look it up. I think it did come out somewhere.

• 1:10:48Jesse Michels?

  Okay, interesting. But that, yeah, that makes me disappointed in Fravor if that happened, because I would love for him to.

• 1:10:56Speaker 00

  No, no, he's, he's a great.

• 1:10:57Jesse Michels?

  Update his view.

• 1:10:58Speaker 00

  No, wait. See, that's wrong.

• 1:10:59Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 1:11:00Speaker 00

  Don't be impetuous.

• 1:11:02Jesse Michels?

  I'm trying not to be.

• 1:11:03Speaker 00

  Don't be impetuous. You have people who speak the truth as they know it, right? But they're only given.

• 1:11:13Jesse Michels?

  So he didn't trust the Lockheed executive? He's hearing other sources telling him other things?

• 1:11:17Speaker 00

  No, no, I'm saying before that, his comments, what he said.

• 1:11:20Jesse Michels?

  But I would hope that you then, he'd then correct the record. He'd then say.

• 1:11:24Speaker 00

  I think he probably has by now.

• 1:11:25Jesse Michels?

  Oh, interesting. Okay.

• 1:11:27Speaker 00

  But I think he has. I mean, he's a stand-up guy.

• 1:11:29Jesse Michels?

  Mm-hmm. Seems like it to me.

• 1:11:31Speaker 00

  Yeah. And, and the problem is many of these people who are great guys get intercepted by people who are slick counterintelligence operatives.

• 1:11:40Jesse Michels?

  Anybody else you think is a bad actor?

• 1:11:43Speaker 00

  Look, it doesn't matter. Here's what, here, for your audience, keep it simple. If they're denying that we have these objects, they're either uninformed, or they're disinforming you deliberately. If they say there's a threat from these objects from others that are not ours, now, the ones that are man-made, huge threat to national security, because they're not under the control of the US military, legal military, or White House, or Congress. Very dangerous. If they say that the aliens are here for some malevolent purpose, there may be things from other dimensions that are quite malevolent, and those deliberately

• 1:12:26Speaker 00

  get mixed in with the aliens. But no, they're not, because if they were.

• 1:12:33Speaker 00

  You know, it's like what Congressman Burchett said, we'd be a charcoal briquet floating through space. Because visualize for a moment, take what Jake said about, because he's been on your show, I'll reference him. So he's been a site where we've targeted these ET craft and download. Now, I know I've been at multiple sites where this is going on, and I know where they are around the world. They're in the briefing document I gave you. It's a map. Now, they have electromagnetic pulse weapons. So an electromagnetic pulse is like when you explode an atomic bomb, right? And there's that pulse that goes out that can knock out your whole electric grid.

• 1:13:17Jesse Michels?

  The nuke without the nuke.

• 1:13:19Speaker 00

  But we have taken the nuke without the nuke, but embedded within that is something called a scaler signal. Scaler, Tesla described it, it's basically instead of electromagnetic is a waveform, like this, right? And coherent light is a laser. We sync up the wavelength. Instead of it being, you know, waves like this, like on a oscilloscope, a scaler is a point that goes out longitudinally, faster than the speed of light. So there is a scaler part within the EMP signal that is very disruptive to interstellar communications

• 1:14:00Speaker 00

  and travel. This is why, after we detonated the first atomic bomb, the ETs came in on force in mass. Because it not only signaled that we were in trouble, that we could go to a point where we could destroy all life on Earth, but they also, it disrupted their systems.

• 1:14:20Jesse Michels?

  Do you think Reagan's Star Wars, the Strategic Defense Initiative, had anything to do with UFO crash retrievals?

• 1:14:26Speaker 00

  Oh, sure. It was just a front. It was a black-budget front. So the whole Star Wars thing and brilliant paupals was just an expensive boondoggle. Most of the money for that went into these black projects.

• 1:14:37Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 1:14:37Speaker 00

  Illegal black projects. We'll get into that in a minute. But what I'm saying here is that these technologies have been operational since the late 40s.

• 1:14:52Speaker 00

  So don't see, everyone's fighting the last war. We figured out, I mean Tesla, T. Townsend Brown, twenties, thirties, forties. I mean Tesla was killed in forty-three. Right? But so there were massive breakthroughs in electromagnetism and things that are to this day still covert. Those began to be weaponized and they realized, hey, there are these craft that are from here, let's get, see if we can knock some down.

• 1:15:23Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:23Speaker 00

  And reverse engineer them. The problem is, doing so is an act of war because we're targeting them. Now civilizations that are ten to the sixth to ten to the eighth years more advanced than we are, a hundred thousand to ten million years more advanced.

• 1:15:43Speaker 00

  If they were hostile, we would have been done. August nineteen forty-five, over folks, hey kids, you're done. Right? They're not. I know this from having had contact and everyone I know who's been on a crash retrieval team like Jake, who's had a close encounter with the consciousness of those beings, they're not.

• 1:16:04Jesse Michels?

  Well, the bad ones might not want to destroy us, they might want to enslave us.

• 1:16:09Speaker 00

  Oh, you're so brainwashed.

• 1:16:11Jesse Michels?

  I'm just saying, I'm just hypothesizing, I don't know.

• 1:16:14Speaker 00

  You read, you look at too much nonsense, man. I mean, look, if they, none of that, that could be done with the flick of a switch if they wanted to turn this planet into a automaton planet or whatever. I mean.

• 1:16:25Jesse Michels?

  What do you think of?

• 1:16:26Speaker 00

  I mean, the technologies are so advanced.

• 1:16:29Jesse Michels?

  You know, this book is amazing, by the way, and I do recommend everybody read it and buy it because it's a treasure trove of excellent documentation across decades. One guy in this book is a really interesting fellow named Bob Beckwith. And Bob Beckwith wrote about levitation, teleportation, and time travel. And he also claimed to be involved with the Philadelphia Experiment in nineteen forty-two.

• 1:16:53Speaker 00

  I knew him.

• 1:16:54Jesse Michels?

  So you knew Bob Beckwith?

• 1:16:55Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:16:55Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 1:16:56Speaker 00

  And my military advisor was on his board of directors for his company.

• 1:17:00Jesse Michels?

  So who, because you hear, so the Philadelphia experiment for the audience is, you know, that you have this, this ship, this naval ship stationed, I believe, at Philadelphia.

• 1:17:10Speaker 00

  Happened in Rhode Island. That was the cover story.

• 1:17:13Jesse Michels?

  Ah, well, let's hear it. Cause I, so, and here's what's really interesting that this you might not know about. Because this is, as of this last month, there's a guy named Harold Malmgren. And he's a presidential advisor for JFK, LBJ, Nixon and Ford. And he has come out, he's been tweeting a bunch about things that he learned in that capacity. And, and getting briefed by Richard Bissell, who is the deputy director of the CIA, who basically founded Area 51 on quote unquote, other world technologies.

• 1:17:41Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:17:41Jesse Michels?

  He said that a contact of his, a high level intel contact of his from abroad, talked to him about classified work that Tesla and Townsend Brown did on submarines together.

• 1:17:52Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:17:53Jesse Michels?

  You have uncovered collaboration between Nikola Tesla and Thomas Townsend Brown.

• 1:17:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, but I said to you informally, I did not get that from any US source.

• 1:18:08Jesse Michels?

  What source did you get it from?

• 1:18:12Speaker 03

  Foreign intelligence.

• 1:18:14Jesse Michels?

  Do you think it is a good source? Do you think it's real?

• 1:18:17Speaker 03

  No reason why would somebody tell me that.

• 1:18:20Jesse Michels?

  And so I wonder, because I, I always thought the Philadelphia experiment was kind of quacky, even though I've gone very deep on Townsend Brown. I think there's a lot, two Townsend Brown stuff.

• 1:18:29Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:18:30Jesse Michels?

  And so.

• 1:18:30Speaker 00

  Brilliant.

• 1:18:31Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, brilliant. Yeah, an amazing figure. And also that for the people that say, oh, it's all electroggravitics and it's not, you know, and there's no ET component, or there's no UFO component. He had a UFO interaction that inspired the rest of his work at the age of 17.

• 1:18:46Speaker 00

  And so did Tesla and his mentor, Dr. Walter Russell.

• 1:18:51Jesse Michels?

  There you go.

• 1:18:51Speaker 00

  The Swanano Institute. My house in Virginia is 10 minutes from Swananoa.

• 1:18:55Jesse Michels?

  Oh, amazing. That's so cool.

• 1:18:57Speaker 00

  Weird coincidence. I didn't know that when I bought it. It's a farm.

• 1:18:59Jesse Michels?

  Now you have Terrence Howard carrying the mantle of Walter Russell.

• 1:19:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:19:04Jesse Michels?

  But, and so do you think anything happened in the Philadelphia experiment? And what was your interaction with Bob Beckwith like? Can we, do we have time travel?

• 1:19:12Speaker 00

  You know, I mean, he knew the stuff I already knew. What I didn't know is what I wanted him to share with me.

• 1:19:17Jesse Michels?

  Uh huh.

• 1:19:18Speaker 00

  So he had invented something called a neutrino light detector. Now, let me explain what that is, you know. A neutrino, you can Google what neutrino is. But these subatomic particles and whatnot. But what he had invented was a detector that would pick up neutrino light, a burst of neutrino. He got a national security order from the NRO, National Reconnaissance Office, that runs all the super-secret spy satellites so they could seize that technology to put it on the Sats. Because what that's used for is when a non-human craft moves out of, let's call it,

• 1:20:00Speaker 00

  trans-dimensional spacetime into 3D, there's a burst of this neutrino light. That enables them to pick that up, triangulate it, and strike the craft to down it. So it's a part of a weapon detection system. And so this genius, Beckwith, but he never got to utilize it because it got seized. Now, we have a witness who came forward, Eric Hecker, a couple of years ago, who worked for Raytheon, and they were put in a neutrino light system a mile under the ice at the South Pole, true. And so one of the prime bad actors in all this is Raytheon. And, you know, along with Northrop Grum and Lockheed Skunk Works and others.

• 1:20:42Jesse Michels?

  And he said that caused the Christchurch earthquake in New Zealand, Hecker did.

• 1:20:45Speaker 00

  When they flipped it on the first time, because who knows if they got the frequencies right. So it's both an active and passive system. It can pick up these objects when they, let's say, step down out of trans-dimensional spacetime into 3D. But they can also be an active weapon system, a carrier for hitting them at very, very powerful pulses. So this is the other problem. If you're in the national military command structure and you're not read in to the technologies that this clandestine criminal organization has.

• 1:21:21Speaker 00

  You're behind the curve very badly. And my coming of age on that was first with the Director of the CIA for Clinton. Then in 1997, well, and many other people, but in 97, I briefed the J2, the Head of Intelligence, Joint Staff Admiral Wilson. And you may know about that, a memo leaked out from Eric Davis.

• 1:21:43Jesse Michels?

  I know a lot about it.

• 1:21:45Speaker 00

  Well, I was briefer.

• 1:21:46Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:47Speaker 00

  So I was in charge of the stand-up briefing.

• 1:21:49Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:49Speaker 00

  It was supposed to be 45 minutes, went on for two or three hours, and the Admiral kept cancelling meetings. But prior to the meeting, my military advisor who knew him, he had been a senior naval intelligence guy, good guy, wonderful guy, got a briefing document to the Admiral and materials prior to our meeting. And based on that, Admiral Wilson was able to run to ground and find some offices where these operations were going on. He knew nothing about it. And he was the Head of Intelligence for the Joint Chiefs of Staff, meaning you're putting the equivalent of the Presidential Daily Briefing, Intelligence Brief together like the Director of CIA does for the President, or DNI does, but for the Joint Chiefs of

• 1:22:34Speaker 00

  Staff. He had no knowledge of the subject. And when he began to hit paydirt, he got threatened. He was threatened with being demoted and taking a star off his lapel, which means a huge pay cut in retirement. And by the time I got to the meeting, he was a combination of furious and scared.

• 1:22:53Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 1:22:53Speaker 00

  All right. So, which, I've seen this a thousand times. I call it disclosure PTSD, which we all have.

• 1:23:02Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 1:23:03Speaker 00

  Right? It's serious stuff. I mean, if you have that level of responsibility, you find out this is going on, a whole universe of this, and you're in charge of the security of the United States?

• 1:23:13Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:13Speaker 00

  And most of the free world?

• 1:23:15Jesse Michels?

  Speaking of-

• 1:23:15Speaker 00

  Scary, right?

• 1:23:16Jesse Michels?

  Extremely.

• 1:23:17Speaker 00

  So the meeting went on for a long time, but, you know, one of the existential things at the end of it was I said, "Well, we really need your help." Now, this is 28 years ago in April, it's 97. We really need your help fixing this problem. He says, "Well, I don't have access. I've been denied access." And they flat out said, "You don't have a need to know," to which he said, I think paraphrasing, "If I don't, who does? I'm the head of Intelligence Joint Staff."

• 1:23:49Jesse Michels?

  Head of J2.

• 1:23:50Speaker 00

  It blew him off. So, the problem became, I said, "Look." He said, "Who else have you briefed who not being allowed to know or control this?" I said, "Oh, the..." I didn't meet with Clinton personally, but the President, the CIA Director, and the Secretary of Defense Cohen, and a bunch of other people. And he went, "Oh, my God." I said, "Yes, now you know how big the problem is. It's an existential constitutional crisis. Much bigger crisis for the United States than China, Russia, Iran, Middle East. No one's doing anything about it. It's dangerous that no one's doing anything about it. If anyone's listening with the administration, this should be on your front burner, not on the back burner."

• 1:24:34Jesse Michels?

  Speaking of the administration, bizarre connection between Donald Trump, the sitting President, and the Philadelphia Experiment is...

• 1:24:42Speaker 00

  His uncle.

• 1:24:43Jesse Michels?

  Exactly. There's not a lot of archival footage of John Trump, who was the, basically, country's lead in radar at the time at MIT.

• 1:24:50Speaker 00

  Oh, he was a genius, brilliant guy.

• 1:24:51Jesse Michels?

  Genius.

• 1:24:52Speaker 00

  MIT.

• 1:24:53Jesse Michels?

  And was tasked with going into the FBI vault that had confiscated all of Tesla's files, looking at whether any of that would be of service to national security.

• 1:25:02Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:25:03Jesse Michels?

  And so, do you think Donald Trump, due to that, might have some special knowledge on this matter?

• 1:25:08Speaker 00

  I don't. I don't think his uncle would have ever shared that with his... It's like my uncle, who was with Northrop Grumman.

• 1:25:16Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:17Speaker 00

  You know, the things he told me about were the things, I mean, working on the thing that landed on the moon in 69, when in the late 50s, we had things that could go to the moon and back without a rocket, right? But if he knew about it, I don't think he would have even told me about that, because everyone knows lethal forces used. Northrop Grumman have wet works, people who kill people. So does Lockheed, so does Raytheon, so, I mean, these are thugs. And you know, Grush's guys, the guys who kind of sent him out to look into this. Three years ago, when I got pulled into the SCIF at the Senate Intelligence Committee, first thing I said is that you're dealing with thugs here. Think of the mafia on super steroids.

• 1:26:02Speaker 00

  It's the largest criminal corrupt organization in the history, known history of the earth. Period. And they have the technology and the means to make your life a living hell. Which mine has been since 1992. But I, I said, just be prepared. Because I'm, I believe in informed consent as a doctor, right? So I said, you have no idea what you're walking into here. And boy, within a day or two of that meeting, the main investigator for Senate Intelligence had two Blackhawks over his house, unmarked. And he had accessed all flight plans, no flight plans. Over his house, shaking the house with his four children in it. With this guy looking out with the death stare, like you're a dead man staring at him.

• 1:26:47Speaker 00

  So, it's a very dangerous business. Not if you're talking nonsense. If you're spreading false information, half information, disinformation, no one's gonna care. But if you're actually getting to the truth, like that man was for Senate Intelligence, because he was assigned to the co-chair and chair of Senate Intelligence to get to the bottom of this. Rubio, who's now Secretary of State. I tell people, they're gonna throw what they can at you to intimidate you. Right? So, you know, this is, I mean, for a lot of people, it's a frickin' hobby. But the, when you get cut through all that, it's deadly serious stuff. But, you know, most people, they're not gonna make it that far.

• 1:27:31Speaker 00

  Because what's gonna happen, they're gonna start on this path. And very quickly, they're going to be intercepted by really professionally well-trained counterintelligence people, and they're going to go off the mark.

• 1:27:43Jesse Michels?

  I believe to this day.

• 1:27:44Speaker 00

  That's Elgin Sando's job, that's Chris Mellon's job, that's, you know, frankly, Hal Podolskaya's job on energy. That's their job, is to divert people into that dead-end cul-de-sac.

• 1:27:57Jesse Michels?

  I believe that would be sad about Hal, because I love Hal, so I hope that's not the case, but...

• 1:28:03Speaker 00

  Well, I know for a fact. I mean, he has to do what he's doing.

• 1:28:05Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 1:28:06Speaker 00

  One of his closest friends is on my team. I know exactly what they said and what they did to get him to do what he's been doing.

• 1:28:13Jesse Michels?

  The only, you know, this is interesting. I did, you know, I came up with this...

• 1:28:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm sorry. I mean, I'm at the point that I don't think people... Here's what I think.

• 1:28:22Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:22Speaker 00

  I said this to your producer or friend before we came in here.

• 1:28:26Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, there you go.

• 1:28:28Speaker 00

  The folks who know about this, they need to come clean truthfully soon, because there is moving through the system, the ability for a law enforcement entity I can't name, that I'm providing intel to, to go to these folks, get their information, interrogate them, and God forbid they lie, they're going to prison the rest of their life. This is getting very serious right now, so people need to either be quiet and not lie, or speak the truth.

• 1:28:59Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:00Speaker 00

  And this is, I am making an explicit advisory here.

• 1:29:05Jesse Michels?

  Well, I love that message. And I, you know, I made this deep dive on Thomas Townsend-Brown. I think he's this amazing figure who deserves to be vindicated. And right before I did it, Eric Davis got in touch with me and was like, Townsend-Brown is a phony. And I was, I had known enough at that point.

• 1:29:23Speaker 00

  Well, he's counterintelligence.

• 1:29:24Jesse Michels?

  I didn't, so I don't know, but you know that?

• 1:29:27Speaker 00

  Oh, I've known that since the... Early 2000s, 90s, I mean, yes.

• 1:29:31Jesse Michels?

  Oh, man. Such a bummer, because all these guys are, you know, there's so much brain power and so it's a...

• 1:29:36Speaker 00

  Yes, but think about it. You're gonna put really good people out there to carry the water to mis-messaged, misdirect, what have you. Well, you know, put your, if, put my, I can put myself in anyone's shoes. I'm gonna put myself in the shoes of sort of the ruling Politburo of this covert group. You're gonna send people out who are very well-trained. Some of them go through something called the farm, which, where they're professionally trained to lie, pass lie detectors, dah dah dah. They're very well-trained at social engineering. "I'm your best friend, trust me, wink wink," and then gaslight you, to misdirect you. So, none of that surprises me. It's what you would expect if you took seriously

• 1:30:19Speaker 00

  what Wilbur Smith said in the 1950 documents, in the briefing document. That was top-secret from the Canadian government that I think accidentally got declassified. And he said, you know, about us reverse-engineering the ET craft. But it, one of his conclusions was, he said, no, not a conclusion. He was told directly that this issue was more secret than the development of the hydrogen bomb.

• 1:30:45Jesse Michels?

  Two levels higher.

• 1:30:48Speaker 00

  And that was in 1950, two years before we had it. And that was, that is how seriously the secrecy is. Because they were trying to figure out the Opus Operandae, the modus operandi of the ET craft, which means how they operate. And they had not done that yet. See, it was 54 is when they had the breakthrough. This is 50. So, if you're trying to keep something like this secret, you're going to deploy every asset you can, up to and including the President of the United States, right? Never mind putting out to, no offense, people new to the subject who have no intel background, where you can gaslight people over and over again.

• 1:31:28Speaker 00

  And that's true whether it's you, Joe Rogan, ABC News, 60 Minutes, whoever it is. So, that's the, that is the Achilles' heel of disclosure. Is that, for every great person who comes forward trying to tell the truth, there are 10 people who are gonna say part-truth, part-fiction. And so, I'm just saying that...

• 1:31:51Speaker 00

  I'm becoming less and less patient with that. I used to be a lot more diplomatic than I am now. I guess, man, I'm getting old and crotchety. Well, I'm just out of surgery too, so.

• 1:32:00Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, it's pretty impressive. Well.

• 1:32:02Speaker 00

  I mean, I have a little bit. Some pain. I don't take any opioids or narcotics.

• 1:32:07Jesse Michels?

  I'm amazed. Well.

• 1:32:08Speaker 00

  I wouldn't let him give me, even going into surgery. I said, no. Give me some Toradol, non-steroidal and.

• 1:32:14Jesse Michels?

  It's incredible. Well, to this day, RFK Jr., Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

• 1:32:19Speaker 00

  Oh, he's great.

• 1:32:19Jesse Michels?

  He's amazing and he's in the current administration.

• 1:32:22Speaker 00

  Yes, yeah.

• 1:32:22Jesse Michels?

  As FDA or Health and Human Services, right?

• 1:32:26Speaker 00

  HHS, yeah.

• 1:32:27Jesse Michels?

  He says that his father was not killed by Sirhan Sirhan, but by this guy Eugene Thane Caesar, who I believe was a Skunk Works security guard or something.

• 1:32:37Speaker 00

  Wait, look. You know, I have a letter. It may be in the book. It's in an archive.

• 1:32:45Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:46Speaker 00

  And it was his dad.

• 1:32:47Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:48Speaker 00

  Writing to a UFO researcher back in 68. It's dated one month before they killed him. And it said, it opens saying, I'm a card. Excuse me. It says, I'm a card-carrying member of the amalgamated Flying Saucer Association of America. There was such a thing. I went, oh, my God. It's so iconoclastic, an anachronism. And I go, wow, you know, and I get this letter. And so, you know, years ago, I ran into RFK Jr. at Sundance. And 50 Cent was playing. I was giving a talk and RFK Jr. had done a documentary about

• 1:33:34Speaker 00

  mountaintop removal mining, coal mining in West Virginia, what an environmental disaster. And called The Last Mountain. I think it was called The Last Mountain. It was great. And I told him, just briefly, because we were in this crowd, I have a letter from your dad about this UFO issue dated a month before they killed him. And that's why, because if he, he was gonna get the nomination and he would have won. But his dad was super interested in this and also I'm convinced knew that his brother, R. F. Jack Kennedy, the president, was killed over this.

• 1:34:11Jesse Michels?

  You think he was killed over UFOs specifically?

• 1:34:13Speaker 00

  Oh, yes.

• 1:34:14Jesse Michels?

  So the, the data points that I have around that are, I believe, I don't know if this letter is real. Maybe you would know if this letter is real. There's a, there's a letter dated November 12th, 1963, 10 days before he died, to John McConne. John McConne is the acting CIA director because he had just fired Dulles.

• 1:34:30Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:34:30Jesse Michels?

  And McConne also was the former head of the Atomic Energy Commission. So he would probably know a little, a thing or two about the UFO issue.

• 1:34:38Speaker 00

  Oh, he would have, yeah.

• 1:34:38Jesse Michels?

  And JFK is saying to John McConne, "We need to coordinate better with the Soviets on this issue of quote unquote unknowns in Soviet airspace so they don't mistake these unknowns as acts of American aggression." Exactly.

• 1:34:53Speaker 00

  It could trigger World War III.

• 1:34:54Jesse Michels?

  So do you think that letter is real?

• 1:34:56Speaker 00

  I don't know the provenance of it. I think it likely is. It comports with the facts. But here's the other thing. We have a man whose interview we have on the audio tape, named Bill Holden, who was the chief steward for Air Force One, when Kennedy was flying over to Berlin where he gave the famous "I am a Berliner" speech. And I, I debriefed this man. And on that flight, he brought, there were some papers, and on one of the papers, there had been a big UFO sighting. That was on, and, and so he brought this up to the president, Kennedy. And Kennedy said, and the man broke in the tears when he said this. Kennedy turned to him and says, "I know this is true, and I know these are real, but the whole matter is out of my hands, and I don't know why." He admitted he had

• 1:35:41Speaker 00

  no control over the issue, which is why he fired Dulles. Because Eisenhower had lost control in the late 50s. That extended into the Kennedy era. And really, no president, except people who have been part of that organization, like George H. W. Bush, Dick Cheney, by extension W., have really had any control over it. And, or any detailed knowledge of it. The current president has virtually no knowledge.

• 1:36:07Jesse Michels?

  That's fascinating.

• 1:36:08Speaker 00

  And, and so... President Clinton, you know, his, a friend of his, Webster Hubbell, who was in the Department of Justice, wrote a book. I forget the name of the book. In it, he admits that he and the President were trying to get to the bottom of a couple of things. One of them was, who killed Jack Kennedy and why? And what's going on with UFOs? Of course, they're related. And then something about Marilyn Monroe. And of course, I have a CIA document that's top secret, not been declassified, that describes. James Jesus Angleton signed it.

• 1:36:44Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 1:36:44Speaker 00

  That's a basic, it's in the briefing document. It's a wiretap of Marilyn Monroe in 62, a couple of days before they killed her, threatening to hold a press conference.

• 1:36:54Jesse Michels?

  And that's a real document?

• 1:36:55Speaker 00

  Oh, it is.

• 1:36:56Jesse Michels?

  That's insane.

• 1:36:57Speaker 00

  Yeah. Oh, it's real. I know the guy who took it out of the vault from NSA. He's an NSA guy. But I got folks who, now, people say, why aren't you arrested? I said, because, once we briefed all these people, like, at the level of the President and Senate Oversight Committees, and we concluded that these programs were being run illegally, outside the Constitution, we declared them all illegal. Therefore, anyone listening, if you're in those operations or have been, they cannot prosecute you for going around your nondisclosure agreements. If you bring out documents, tapes, material, they're open source, and I will release them.

• 1:37:39Speaker 00

  Because all that material, and I've told Jake this, are being, have been accumulated under an illegal operation, abusing the National Security Act and National Security provisions, when they are in fact, have no protections. So we need to flip the table here. Instead of these whistleblowers being...

• 1:38:00Speaker 00

  Prosecuted, or people being killed for trying to get the truth out. We flip it around, where US law enforcement, operating legally, under the Constitution, go after the bad actors, right? So that's, this is where it's gonna have to go. And I think it needs to be nonkinetic, not violent. But it needs to be done by any means necessary. But if this is the foundation, I wanna unpack this a little bit. The foundation of Disclosure Project, so not in this book, but in our archive, is what's called a UNOD, unless otherwise directed. It's a military technique used that you write to a senior person. And it says, unless otherwise directed, this is my assessment, and this is what I'm gonna do.

• 1:38:45Speaker 00

  They don't have to write back, because then there's no, there's plausible deniability to a CINC, a Commander in Chief, or, you know, a four-star, or something. And it's used, and so my military advisor said, you know what we need to do? This is by ninety, late ninety-seven. And after the debacle with Admiral Wilson, and finding out, we had one data point after another, after another, that this was an illegal, unsanctioned, rogue, criminal organization. At that point, I said, well, we need to declare it as such. And therefore, we need to vitiate everyone's non-disclosure agreements, so that they can come forward. That's what we did. So that is nineteen ninety-seven. I put a, I think, a two- or three-month clock on it.

• 1:39:29Speaker 00

  So I said, unless we're notified otherwise, our assessment is that these programs are illegal, corrupt, and unconstitutional, based on the following facts. The President has been denied access, the CIA Director was denied access, the Head of Intelligence, Joint Chiefs of Staff, and other senior flag officers have been denied access, senior members of the Senate and House Oversight, relevant committees have been denied access. Because by then, I had met with all that, personally. This is not internet, Google, crap, conspiracy theory stuff. So at that point, of course, it flipped my whole world upside down, as a doctor. But I said, no, at this point, we're declaring these illegal.

• 1:40:12Speaker 00

  And so if you're someone at Lockheed, Northrop, Raytheon, CIA, DOD, NSA, the whole alphabet soup, FBI, and you know about this, you wanna come forward, they can't touch you. Now, the good news is now...

• 1:40:31Speaker 00

  There's a law enforcement entity that is going to extend immunity to them and will protect them. So we have that in place right now. So anyone listening, contact me. We will keep your name. Look, 80% of everyone's ever come to me, they're in our archive, blackened out and redacted, right? For a reason. Because I don't disclose someone's name unless they say, "I'm willing to come forward." Like Michael Herrera, willing to come forward. So he did. He's the only person I ever have met who saw something like that, who lived to tell the tale.

• 1:41:05Speaker 04

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• 1:41:34Speaker 00

  It's remarkable that Herrera wasn't killed.

• 1:41:37Jesse Michels?

  It's an amazing story.

• 1:41:39Speaker 00

  And a true one. We've had three separate senior intel and military people confirm that.

• 1:41:44Jesse Michels?

  So for the audience, this guy was part of Operation Katsana, and he was supposed to go to the Philippines. His unit was diverted, his Marine Corps unit was diverted, put in Indonesia. They see this eight-gone, octagon, Vanta Black craft hovering above the treetops. They're closed in on by these seemingly S1 Special Forces. They don't know if it's Special Forces, but nondescript guys who are very smooth with their guns, and they have bioscanners and all this kind of, you know, high-tech. And he later learns from Jake Barber that this was maybe a human trafficking operation?

• 1:42:19Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:42:20Jesse Michels?

  And that they were putting these psionic assets, these people who were meant to be shipped back to the US to summon.

• 1:42:27Speaker 00

  Perspective psionic assets.

• 1:42:28Jesse Michels?

  Perspectives.

• 1:42:29Speaker 00

  In other words, they were people who had been identified with the predisposition to have those psionic abilities. And those were being created up and moved back to some covert places where they'd be screen tested. If they passed a certain level, then they would go through a rigorous training program. Most of them end up in comas or die, by the way. But the ones that survive are very good at what they're doing. But they're basically human tools for these really evil covert programs to essentially hack into these non-human crafted communication systems that are interfacing with thought and consciousness.

• 1:43:12Jesse Michels?

  Do you think they're-

• 1:43:12Speaker 00

  It's like our super high-end version of Neuralink and move them over into range and hit them with an electromagnetic pulse weapon.

• 1:43:19Jesse Michels?

  There are rumors that like the show on Netflix, Stranger Things, is like real.

• 1:43:25Speaker 00

  Oh, of course. I've talked about all that stuff for years. Montauk and-

• 1:43:28Jesse Michels?

  Montauk and gifted and talented education programs that I recently met with a pretty senior person in government who all anonymized because I don't think he wants to be on record on this, but he mentioned a link between Batel Memorial Institute and these gifted and talented education systems.

• 1:43:47Speaker 00

  Sure, and the cabal running these UFO programs.

• 1:43:50Jesse Michels?

  Which is, that is-

• 1:43:51Speaker 00

  That is one of the people, or the institutes on our list of-

• 1:43:55Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, and they manage all of the nuclear sites, all of the US. And so if they're, and what's interesting is you often hear stories of people making it past checkpoints in these gifted and talented education programs where you prove that you have, you know, some mind-matter capabilities and then you get to the next thing and then they'll show you a piece of material. And who would have the material? It would be Batel Memorial Institute, so I-

• 1:44:18Speaker 00

  Amongst others. I mean, look, there are many, there's a whole military-industrial complex component to this, right?

• 1:44:26Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:27Speaker 00

  There are institutes, there are all kinds of foundations, there are, you know, it sort of is, it's like a metastatic cancer that's gone on. Because, look, they have a lot of money to spread around.

• 1:44:36Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:37Speaker 00

  You know, I met with a man in 1997 before-

• 1:44:42Speaker 00

  I was over at the meeting with the CIA director in DC. Who said, "We have given at least 10,000 people $10 million each or more to secure their cooperation with what we're doing."

• 1:44:54Jesse Michels?

  I think-

• 1:44:55Speaker 00

  Now, that was 28 years ago. So, and I know he said at least that. So, I said, "Yeah, I'm sure." So, you know, "What's your price?" And if you have the ability to either be troublesome to them, you're either going to, it's like Gordon, that guy who used to publish Flying Saucer Magazine.

• 1:45:19Jesse Michels?

  Gordon Cooper?

• 1:45:19Speaker 00

  No, not Gordon Cooper. Crichton.

• 1:45:22Jesse Michels?

  Oh, Gordon Crichton, yeah.

• 1:45:23Speaker 00

  Yeah. I interviewed him. He's one of our witnesses, because he had been military intelligence. And he published this and, you know, all that used to go over to the palace. And Prince Philip was very keen on all of this.

• 1:45:36Jesse Michels?

  I've heard that.

• 1:45:37Speaker 00

  Oh, I know for a fact.

• 1:45:38Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:38Speaker 00

  And so, because I know the people involved. So, he said, "If you become too worrisome," you see this interview, it's in our archive. "There's certain people who they will erase or do whatever." So, you know, I think people kind of way underestimate the reach of this organization and to extent it has operative embedded. But, of course, the grand conspiracy theories are false also. Bohemian Grove. You know what? Maybe two of those guys know anything about this. Trilateral Commission, maybe two or three do.

• 1:46:13Jesse Michels?

  I think-

• 1:46:14Speaker 00

  So, I think that one of the problems with these conspiracy theories is that they're not nuanced and they're all pretty dumb. From the point of view is, you can't keep something like this, this secret, with a huge number of people knowing. The number of people read in or read on to anything like this in any detail is going to be very, very tightly controlled. But those assets, well-trained, well-compensated, well-placed. And so-

• 1:46:42Speaker 00

  Look, I mean, you know, and they don't mind killing one of their own.

• 1:46:45Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:45Speaker 00

  You know, when Bill Colby, who had been read into this, tried to get a zero-point device to us, and about, just a small amount, like fifty million dollars in seed money, in ninety-five, I think. The week he was gonna meet with a member of my board, they found him floating down the river south of DC. Made to look like a canoeing accident, and his wife knew that he had been killed.

• 1:47:08Jesse Michels?

  You know, the Stan Myers story, I think you talk about it in your movie, The Lost Century. Uh, just like a car that like ran on water?

• 1:47:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, he did.

• 1:47:18Jesse Michels?

  Is that, so, was he taken, or he died of an aneurysm? And do you think he act, is that real, or?

• 1:47:24Speaker 00

  His twin brother, who we've met with, and who was really the electronics guy buying all that, Stan Myers' twin, Steve,

• 1:47:34Speaker 00

  absolutely is convinced he was poisoned and killed.

• 1:47:37Jesse Michels?

  And you think that, that-

• 1:47:38Speaker 00

  Well, we have a hundred and fifty substances that can kill people. Or poison them. You know, so-

• 1:47:44Jesse Michels?

  What about Pahn's Fleischmann, the, you know, they-

• 1:47:48Speaker 00

  Cold fusion.

• 1:47:48Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, cold fusion, exactly.

• 1:47:50Speaker 00

  I never met them. Certainly, they were on to something. And I know people who did much more souped-up versions of that. All those devices have ended up being confiscated or the people erased. The guys who bought Stan Myers' archive, and all his devices, we were trying to get it, but we didn't have the funding. It went to an engineering group, uh, up in Michigan. And, uh, there was a, a man, who I didn't know what the mon, who the money was behind that. So my science advisor, Dr. Loder, went and saw this warehouse full of floppy disk and devices, but he had one thing of great interest. We have a picture of it. It's in our archive. dpiarchive.com.

• 1:48:35Speaker 00

  And it looks like a sort of a toroidal electromagnetic, it had a magnetically charged fluid in it. And it was a complete free energy system. So it had a national security order slapped on it way back. But it was sitting there to acquire. And we were gonna try to get it and then open source it. Because, you know, memo to Peter Thiel and everyone else. If you try to patent this or or or release it in the normal, let's just say, traditional venture capital way, it'll never get out, ever. You have to dump it open source off blockchain to a two, three billion people all at once.

• 1:49:15Jesse Michels?

  That's my belief. I mean, like.

• 1:49:17Speaker 00

  Well, there's no way. We know. I mean, this is the whole point of the last century was to prove.

• 1:49:20Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:49:21Speaker 00

  I meet with these kind of geniuses. I just met.

• 1:49:23Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:24Speaker 00

  With a Fortune 10 company senior scientist a couple of weeks ago. And he came to LA to meet with me. Cause I was on, there's a podcast, sweetest lady ever. Named Khloe Kardashian. He was so, she's so sweet. And she just released yesterday a podcast I did with her. But she, she was so much fun. So sweet.

• 1:49:48Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, she loves your work.

• 1:49:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, I had never met her. She was very, very kind.

• 1:49:52Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:53Speaker 00

  Beautiful person, really. Smart. Very smart. But she, um, so I was out there, this guy flies in. Super genius. He can build free energy plasma things. He can do teleportation. But the major corporation he works for won't let him do it. So he wants to work with us, bring it out. And he, I said, look,

• 1:50:18Speaker 00

  don't try to do it through patent. You have to open source it. But if you open source it and you have a reach of a few hundred thousand people, no one cares. So I have a network of various influencers and celebrities and can get it to two, three billion people all at once. In which case, you squeeze the toothpaste out of the tube so hard, can't put it back in. So these fascists that want to keep us dependent on earth destroying energy systems forever, you say, adios. Now, what I, he has the ability to build things that teleport and levitate. I said, nope, don't touch those. So, so where I think that people in the administration I've spoken to are mirroring what I'm saying about to tell you.

• 1:51:03Speaker 00

  And that is, this needs to get disclosed. We need to do it in a way where there's a pathway for the people involved to come clean. But not be imprisoned and not be executed. Because an eye for an eye will leave the whole world blind. Now, if you go back to ninety-three, four, or five, you'll see what I wrote to the Clinton administration. It was the same set of recommendations. Hardcore people in disclosures say, oh, we should round them up in Nuremberg. I said, no. These guys are holding technologies that are the trump card against everything the Pentagon has.

• 1:51:37Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, and plenty of them are just taking orders under threats of, you know, their families' lives.

• 1:51:43Speaker 00

  Yes, but I mean, we have to have compassion for that, but even the worst of the actors. They either need to come forward or put on a leash, right? And stood down. Now, to do that, you're going to have to have a group of people who are special forces trained. And that's the other part of this we can talk about carefully.

• 1:52:02Jesse Michels?

  Interesting, so is there, there's a plan maybe to do that?

• 1:52:05Speaker 00

  Oh, yes, it's already been in place for about a year and a half, two years.

• 1:52:09Jesse Michels?

  So what is that, does that involve storming Area 51 and Douglas and Wright-Patt? Or what is this involved, literally? Wow, okay.

• 1:52:19Speaker 00

  Well, they either capitulate to the legal government of the United States.

• 1:52:23Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:24Speaker 00

  Or they're declared treasonous operations and then they're put under proper authority and oversight.

• 1:52:30Jesse Michels?

  Don't they have the secret weapons that can, like, aren't we unmatched? That's the reason I haven't.

• 1:52:37Speaker 00

  Finish the story with Admiral Wilson, we keep getting diverted. So at the very end of the meeting.

• 1:52:42Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:43Speaker 00

  He said to me, I asked him, can you help? He says, well, the best thing I have is a B-2 stealth bomber that I know about. And you're, and I have learned, he didn't say not from me, but what I've learned directly is that there's an organization that have things that can do circles. The man-made UFOs, ARVs, around my B-2 stealth. So he says, so it's checkmate, it's point, set, match, it's over. I said, no, sir, we cannot, it is David. The entire United States legal, United States of America constitutional government is the David. And this organization is the Goliath.

• 1:53:23Speaker 00

  Remember that, which is why so many presidents and so many senators and so many military guys. I mean, when they get to the edge of this precipice and they go, God, mother of God, and they back off.

• 1:53:36Jesse Michels?

  I wonder.

• 1:53:37Speaker 00

  But there's a way around it.

• 1:53:38Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 1:53:40Speaker 00

  So where the Achilles heel of that organization is,

• 1:53:45Speaker 00

  is that their numbers are very thin. The subject's coming out and they know the public opinion is going to go against them.

• 1:53:55Speaker 00

  And then the, and because their numbers are thin, they're, they can be overwhelmed in a tactical operation. The other thing is their OPSECs are very good, operational security. But they cannot withstand the full force of a serious quote investigation and operation, tactical operation. Now, what they do have is technological superiority. And that can be vitiated through some technologies I don't want to talk about. Where basically you can go in and neutralize. It's fire against fire, but I'll just tell you, you can go in and neutralize the facility without a bomb.

• 1:54:37Speaker 00

  And it, again, it deals with electromagnetic systems that are advanced scaler systems. And, you know, there's a scientist who talked at our 2023 conference right before the National Press Club event we did where Herrera spoke. And he was a senior GE physicist and scientist who specializes in scaler. So look, we have assets where I could say, all right, go in. Yep. So you could just, you know, their manmade UFOs and all their other stuff can neutralize it. That's all I'm going to say, but I'm just saying that you have to have an executive order

• 1:55:17Speaker 00

  from the president to provide the protections to these high value whistleblowers. You need personal security. You need to authorize a law enforcement operation, both CONUS and OCONUS, United States and outside continental United States is OCONUS, which can be done. And then you need to fund it. It'd be, you know, classified funding. And then you also need to have a pathway for when you acquire all this materiel out of Doug Way and the Edwards complex and Lockheed's Gunkworks Underground and Northrop's Underground and Raytheon's. What do you do with it?

• 1:56:02Speaker 00

  And we're recommending the stuff that flies.

• 1:56:06Speaker 00

  Is kept secret in terms of it being, it has to be acknowledged we have it. We all know we have thermonuclear weapons, but you can't go to Ace Hardware Store and buy one. So it has to get acknowledged properly. But we just say, right now, the world is too unstable to let every ten pot dictator or terrorist in the world have something that can go from Mogadishu to DC in three minutes and drop a dirty bomb, right? There are valid national security concerns about some of these technologies. And the world is not at that place. The world is at the place where something that could sit on this table, that would run this building without pollution. And what happens then?

• 1:56:51Speaker 00

  The Malthusian problem gets fixed. Malthusian. The Malthusian problem gets fixed because you have something where you're going to eliminate in about 20 years, global poverty. Much of terrorism and radicalization is the have and have not problem. Because we're so narcissistic and self-turned inward-looking in America. We don't realize 3 billion people on the planet don't even have energy to cook their food. That's why they're chopping down the rainforest. Or chopping down the brush and the deserts keep growing. Because it's like a locusts that are just ripping everything out.

• 1:57:31Speaker 00

  But it's also the severe, mind-numbing, inhumane, I tell Christians, un-Christian poverty that we've imposed. But that's based on the energy system. You're never going to fix it with wind and solar, ever. Or with a plug-in electric car. It's never going to get fixed. Now, these new technologies will fix that. It'll fix the biosphere, fix pollution, end poverty, stabilize geopolitically. Now, they're going to be losers. Hundreds of trillions of dollars in assets and commodities. But again, it isn't going to happen like this. It's not like downloading an app. These are heavy industries.

• 1:58:11Speaker 00

  It's going to take at least 15 to 20, 30 years to transition from our current cars and electric grid to what I'm talking about. And I don't know that we have 30 years, so we need to get going. So my point to people is that in the administration, and I had this little debate with Patrick David on his show, is that this, you know, taking decades to do this could have been done in the 20s, 30s, 40s. This is 2025. We have 8 billion people on the planet living like in the 1800s, energy-wise. Oil, gas, coal, blah, blah, blah, wind. The Dutch had that ages ago. Okay, so we have a little bit of extra.

• 1:58:54Speaker 00

  Nuclear, 1940s. So are you telling me the whole world has to run on stuff that's 80 to 120 years old? This is ridiculous. But it benefits a very, very tiny oligarch, ruling group of people on the planet. Energy, banking, petrodollar, very, I mean, we're not, again, we're not talking about a few hundred billion, we're talking about several hundred trillion dollars. But if we're destroying the biosphere and what their solution is, well, let's just keep diverting people with shiny little problems. And 9/11, aliens that are scary. See, that's the next big thing, is what Wernher Von Bocken.

• 1:59:38Speaker 00

  This is why, when people spread that kind of nonsense, I am going to go after them like a goddamn Rottweiler. Because that is how we end up in World War III. That's how we end up in a totalitarian militaristic superstate. The opposite of the Golden Age, the opposite of the Age of Enlightenment, the opposite of a sustainable world. That's the end of the world as we know it. And I tell people, even if there are some ETs, there really are ETs and not from another dimension or a man-made diversion.

• 2:00:10Speaker 00

  That are troublesome. You think you're gonna win that war down the barrel of a gun? No, you're gonna do CE5 contact. Go get the app. Anyone can get it. It works. William Shatner has it and did it and went up in space. So, go get it. You know, Barber and others will tell you that concept absolutely works. Because what we have to do is figure out, if we have any kind of conflict, is it always gonna get solved through a kinetic war? Well, that's the end of the world. Because you're not dealing with thermonuclear weapons. You're dealing with weapons that would make a hydrogen bomb look like a Tinker Toy.

• 2:00:53Speaker 00

  So, when you start getting into technologies that can affect spacetime, where you could dissociate the, basically, the material of an entire planet, poof. No, you don't go there. So, this is a serio... See, for most people, they look at too much science fiction and Hollywood crap and way too much ufology, where it mixes in all these rubbish and false narratives and myths with the truth. But if you think about this as a thinking, a really serious person, even if there was a civilization or one or two, that might be troublesome. And I don't think there's any evidence there is, but I've just, you can't prove a negative. So, let's be devil's advocate. No, I'll be the advocate of what 99% of my colleagues say.

• 2:01:38Speaker 00

  There are these worrisome aliens that we have to fight and... Where are you gonna fix that? How are you gonna fix that? Through a war? Through conflict? Well, it would last about .1 nanoseconds. No, this is stupid. That is a suicide mission. So, if we're gonna be serious about this, then we have to think, well, even if that were the case, and I don't think it is at all, neither does Jake. Here's the thing, too. Every man, and there've all been men so far, who have been operational on those retrieval teams that I've been meeting with back all the way to the early 90s.

• 2:02:19Speaker 00

  Not a single one of them, when they encountered a living one, said they were anything but very peaceful, very enlightened, and very kind, but very concerned about humanity, and what we're doing to the earth and to ourselves, and potentially to them. Because remember, now here's, let's cut this to the bottom line here. The reason we're running out of time is that the technology curve from the 40s to now has gone like that. So right now, and Jake will admit this, the non-human ET craft, and the really advanced ones from Raytheon and some of the other companies, are virtually indistinguishable. But that also means the technology that can be weaponized is at that level.

• 2:03:04Speaker 00

  Which means, humans, this corrupt organization, not under the control of the president, the congress, and the Pentagon, is becoming a threat to other worlds. This is where we cross a red line. And I've known about it for 30 years. And I'm telling people, we are right there. We're right at that point. And that, you do not want to cross that red line to a point where there has to be an intervention from out there. Right? But I think there are people in this crazy corrupt organization, this transnational corrupt organization that runs this and a bunch of other stuff, who would like to see that, because I learned this in 94 from the crown prince of Liechtenstein, Hans Adam.

• 2:03:48Jesse Michels?

  He seems super into this topic. He's popped up a few times. Didn't he like, take all the Roswell witnesses and fly them out to Europe and meet with them? And so you've met him too?

• 2:03:58Speaker 00

  Oh yeah, yeah. I spent a whole afternoon with him.

• 2:04:00Jesse Michels?

  And he's very...

• 2:04:01Speaker 00

  No, he's part of the organization.

• 2:04:02Jesse Michels?

  He is?

• 2:04:03Speaker 00

  Oh, he was Opus Day. He funded, funds Opus Day, a really far right-wing group, the Vatican. And I spent a lot of time with him.

• 2:04:10Jesse Michels?

  But you see, you like him? You find him of pure intention, or?

• 2:04:14Speaker 00

  No, no, his intention. I was going to tell you this. Listen. So this long meeting was very disturbing. And it was at the Pierre Four Seasons in New York. They're on Fifth Avenue, across from Central Park. And he had a suite. We wanted to meet for a while and I couldn't de-conflict my schedule as an emergency doctor and his schedule. We finally got together in New York because he was coming to visit Lawrence Rockefeller. And so we had this long meeting. And he told me, he says, the reason I'm funding Bud Hopkins and even back then John Mack and some other people is that, and David Jacobs.

• 2:05:00Jesse Michels?

  He had the threat narrative, David Jacobs.

• 2:05:03Speaker 00

  Is that we want the public to hate the aliens so bad

• 2:05:10Speaker 00

  that we can have an interplanetary war so that we'll have Armageddon so Christ will return. I'm quoting. That's that agenda. So it's an eschatological, eschatology is to study how the world ends. So from that point of view, this, instead of having a future, a new world, if you can take it, as the ET said, the Colonel Corso, that story is great. A new world that we could go forward for hundreds of thousands of years is in, that's end the world so Christ will come back, the Messiah. So there's a weird part of this organization that's corrupt that has this firm belief that we have to provoke an interplanetary conflict.

• 2:05:54Speaker 00

  And that's how the world comes to an end and that's how Christ comes back. Now, when I heard this, I just listened. And I was, of course, horrified and stultified. I went, what the fuck? You know? WTF? I didn't say it.

• 2:06:12Speaker 00

  But I just wanted to hear, where are you really coming from in the organization you're a part of? Because he was part of that. Oh, sure.

• 2:06:18Jesse Michels?

  So he wanted to speed up the end of the world so Christ could.

• 2:06:21Speaker 00

  Which is why he was funding all the abduction groups and researchers.

• 2:06:24Jesse Michels?

  You know, I've heard.

• 2:06:26Speaker 00

  He was funding them because those were the frontline people. So a lot of those were innocent people. They would have someone who, a CIA special operations team.

• 2:06:36Speaker 00

  Or some other group that had one of these man-made flying saucers or discs would abduct someone, that case would then be channeled through a couple cutouts to David Jacobs about Hopkins or John Mack. Now, they didn't know that I was debriefing people who were the ones operating the abduction program that was human.

• 2:06:55Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 2:06:56Speaker 00

  Same thing with cattle mutilations. Linda Moot and How thinks those are aliens. No, we're doing that.

• 2:07:01Jesse Michels?

  So, there's all this talk now of disclosures. You have disclosures around the JFK assassination. People want the 9/11 records. They want, you know, all these things. They want Epstein stuff. And so, you know.

• 2:07:16Speaker 00

  Excuse me.

• 2:07:17Jesse Michels?

  Do you think we get any progress on UFOs? And then, maybe even the better question, because UFOs are such, you know, it's so complicated. It's this gangly octopus. It's so hard to kind of find where the bodies are buried, so to speak.

• 2:07:30Speaker 00

  No, it's not.

• 2:07:32Jesse Michels?

  Well, maybe not. So, you think it is? It's easy?

• 2:07:36Speaker 00

  Oh, look.

• 2:07:37Jesse Michels?

  What I was gonna go is...

• 2:07:38Speaker 00

  Here's what we're doing.

• 2:07:39Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:40Speaker 00

  The actual intelligence that they need, that like Mr. Grush was provided some of.

• 2:07:44Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:45Speaker 00

  That could lead to hitting pay dirt.

• 2:07:46Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:47Speaker 00

  We have a huge amount of it. Other people I'm working with who have been former or current special forces have a lot of it. That can be provided to the operation I'm talking about that's being looked at, but that needs an executive order from the President.

• 2:08:04Jesse Michels?

  Do you think that's gonna happen?

• 2:08:05Speaker 00

  This is the one pager for the President.

• 2:08:06Jesse Michels?

  Is that gonna happen? Do you think he's gonna listen and sign an executive order? His son seems very into the issue.

• 2:08:12Speaker 00

  Oh, Don Jr. I spoke with him briefly. Yeah. No, they're very interested. Unfortunately, Don Jr. got gaslit about a lot of this by Elizondo with false information. Joe Rogan has totally been misled.

• 2:08:23Jesse Michels?

  Your episode with Rogan got deleted or something?

• 2:08:26Speaker 00

  Well, in order to get his money from Spotify, they had to take it out.

• 2:08:29Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 2:08:30Speaker 00

  Oh, of course. It's like when Sean Ryan had, you know, on my show in Herrera, shortly after that, he got threatened. I can't be on that show anymore.

• 2:08:37Jesse Michels?

  Really? Am I gonna get fucked with?

• 2:08:39Speaker 00

  No. I mean, you don't have the numbers. If you had 20 million people, maybe.

• 2:08:45Jesse Michels?

  I guess that's good.

• 2:08:46Speaker 00

  Or, the question is, what dirt do they have on you?

• 2:08:49Jesse Michels?

  No, I think I'm pretty straight up.

• 2:08:52Speaker 00

  So if you don't care about being bought off with money, I'm assuming you have some assets.

• 2:08:56Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, they're doing alright.

• 2:08:58Speaker 00

  And, yeah. So, if you're not corruptible with money, and if you're not somebody who's gonna try to jump the shark by getting on the inside for the technologies, is what happened. That was Bigelow's Achilles' heel. Bob, Robert Bigelow. And you're not, you know, afraid. And you don't have something they could blackmail you with.

• 2:09:22Jesse Michels?

  Do you think Bob Bigelow has a warehouse with UFOs in Vegas?

• 2:09:27Speaker 00

  No.

• 2:09:27Jesse Michels?

  You don't?

• 2:09:28Speaker 00

  No, I can tell you that Colonel Alexander, who was his consigliere, that was all set up so that the $22 million that Harry Reid helped get to Bigelow Aerospace to research this would be, you bait, here's what that operation was. Send the money to that. Now, Bigelow didn't know this. He really didn't. He was innocent.

• 2:09:49Speaker 00

  It was Alexander who did all the gaslighting. Send the money to there. They get the money. The Pentagon thinks they're gonna get a serious research effort. You might as well have opened the toilet lid, flushed $22 million down to the sewer. Because that was the setup. And I spoke to General Bob Herbert, who had left the military and was right-handed to Senator Reid about this a few years ago during COVID, and another senior operative who worked with him. And they said to me, "We didn't get anything of any value out of all those millions of dollars." I said, "No, because the person who was actually directing that operation is someone who has been key to covering this up for decades as part of this rat pack of guys named Colonel Alexander,

• 2:10:34Speaker 00

  who by the way, is the consigliere mentor for one Lou Elizondo."

• 2:10:40Speaker 00

  Okay, so, look. You know, I'm not gonna mince words with you. I know you've gotten all submerged in this stuff and it's all mixed up in your brain. But I'm trying to give a little clarity. I know I'm a very, but people hate that I'm so direct about this. But, you know, I'm the kind of, I tell people, if you have a brain tumor, I'm not gonna tell you you have a migraine, right? I'm gonna say, "Hey, bro, I'm sorry, you got a, you got a brain tumor, it's gotta come out." But that's just how I run. I'm a very direct person. But, the, so, so that operation really was sad because, man, I really think what Bigelow wanted to do, and I remember meeting with him privately after the Rockefeller.

• 2:11:21Speaker 00

  Meeting is that he wanted to get on the inside of the tech and what was really going on with the intelligence community because you know he was a Las Vegas billionaire. He was a he was an heir to a real estate fortune in Vegas.

• 2:11:35Jesse Michels?

  Budget suites, right?

• 2:11:36Speaker 00

  And all that, yeah, so he had the money, so he didn't need the money, but he wanted the access, so they find what your soft spot is, you know, where's your soft underbelly? Some people, they just want to get rich, some people, they just want to get in a position of power, some people, if they're already rich and powerful, they want to get on the inside of this big secret, so that's how they got their hooks in him, and I warned him of that, same thing with Joe Fermwich, that got pulled in and was

• 2:12:04Jesse Michels?

  This was this tech entrepreneur who got super into anti-gravity, yeah.

• 2:12:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, and he got totally gaslit and pulled into an operation, it ruined his life.

• 2:12:14Jesse Michels?

  And then he got put in prison for something?

• 2:12:15Speaker 00

  And I warned him, this is going to be an op, you're going to spend your money and all this time, because he took the same bait, he was wealthy, and I met with him at the Mars Cafe in South of Market in San Francisco way back in the 90s, and I warned, I said, Joe, you're gonna, you're a mark for these guys, and sure enough, that same group of people intercepted him, Peter Thiel was almost intercepted by some of these people.

• 2:12:40Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 2:12:41Speaker 00

  For energy, technology stuff, yeah, with Hal Puthoff and some others.

• 2:12:45Jesse Michels?

  Peter?

• 2:12:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:12:47Jesse Michels?

  The guy that I've worked with?

• 2:12:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, they were going to get 150 million of his that would be flushed down the toilet.

• 2:12:52Jesse Michels?

  Hal Puthoff? No, I don't think so.

• 2:12:55Speaker 00

  Yes, sir. I got a heads up from the senior Mo C I guy, and I backchanneled that information to Eric Weinstein.

• 2:13:03Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, but we, I've met with, because I'm open about this, I've brought Hal into the office, but it didn't, nothing ended up happening.

• 2:13:11Speaker 00

  Well, no, but they're putting him out, you know, like, he's up in his, what, 80s, I guess now.

• 2:13:18Jesse Michels?

  Uh huh, yeah.

• 2:13:19Speaker 00

  It's like a lot of these guys, they have to find a replacement, but no, he was an operative that was

• 2:13:27Speaker 00

  You know, I, look, I, probably his closest friend ever is on my team, and I know the whole backstory. Same thing with Jacques Vallée, great guy, brilliant guy. But at some point, he got too far involved with that same cabal of people and got corrupted. And this is why, you know, in our documentary, we talk about the document that he admits to having. It's in his 1992 book that Jacques Vallée wrote, I forget the name of it. And there's an entry where he talks about having a 1985, that was when he was really got involved with the Colonel Alexander types and stubblevine types.

• 2:14:04Jesse Michels?

  The Advanced Theoretical Physics Working Group.

• 2:14:06Speaker 00

  No, no, just let me finish. The document is a description of CIA operations in Argentina and Brazil to abduct peasants so that they think they're being abducted by aliens for its, quote, I'm quoting, "psychological warfare value." Now, we've asked Jacques Vallée to release that document. He got very agitated against my research producers and said, "No way." Because I think he knows that that's so, that is the core of the cover-up, is the false convincing of the public of an alien threat. But this is a black and white CIA document Jacques Vallée has, and I know a couple other

• 2:14:50Speaker 00

  people have it, but they've been threatened, that outlines that operation. So these abduction programs have operated, not just US, but also overseas, for decades. Remember, that's a 40-year-old document, 85, and those programs were started well before then.

• 2:15:07Jesse Michels?

  Well, I will say, Charles Douglas Jackson, who ran psychological warfare for the country and was operated in the Psychological Strategy Board under Gordon Gray, he showed up at Betty and Barney Hill's house, two weeks after they encountered what they encountered. So I've always found that to be kind of interesting. And then he went on to work for Life and Time Magazine, and he was responsible for putting out this Zapruder film of JFK getting shot with missing frames.

• 2:15:30Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:15:31Jesse Michels?

  So maybe there's something kind of weird there, I don't know.

• 2:15:33Speaker 00

  Well, I'm telling you, there is. I mean, this is, this is the part of this, there's, I call it the myth, the myth, in the briefing document for the president, I take out some of the names that I know are the operatives doing it. But I have, it's a one-sheeter. On one side is the myth, and the other is the truth. And who are the purveyors of the myth? And what is the actual facts of it?

• 2:15:55Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:55Speaker 00

  And unpacking it is a very arduous, complicated, and I'll admit, I didn't know what I'm just telling you, back in 1990, 94, it came from being pulled in by people who wanted me to know the truth, who are these Deep Throats? Some of these 800 people have debriefed. But there are documents that would prove this, like Jock Foley has that document. The law enforcement and the president should say subpoena that.

• 2:16:27Jesse Michels?

  Do you think Nixon was taken out over this issue with Watergate?

• 2:16:31Speaker 00

  I do.

• 2:16:32Jesse Michels?

  Because you said Deep Throat, the real Deep Throat is a guy named Mark Felt, who's a deputy director of the FBI.

• 2:16:37Speaker 00

  Correct.

• 2:16:37Jesse Michels?

  In his biography, he talks about Nixon being shown covert technology, and then there's this famous story of Nixon showing up at Jackie Gleason's place in 1973 and telling him, we have secret UFO technology, taking him to Homestead Air Force Base.

• 2:16:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:16:53Jesse Michels?

  And then Jackie Gleason gets obsessed with UFOs, and his house becomes shaped like a UFO.

• 2:16:57Speaker 00

  I know.

• 2:16:57Jesse Michels?

  So is that story, is that all true?

• 2:16:59Speaker 00

  100% true, but it goes back further.

• 2:17:02Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 2:17:03Speaker 00

  So let's explain how national security in the 50s, maybe from the 50s on, the chairman of what's called the Space Council for the United States government is the vice president traditionally. Now, they have a professional director, but the vice president is chairman. So Nixon was chairman of the Space Council during Eisenhower. He was part of the team that betrayed Eisenhower, along with these others. So they circled their wagons and their limousines and pushed Eisenhower further out of the picture.

• 2:17:38Jesse Michels?

  The 5412 Committee?

• 2:17:40Speaker 00

  So this would, they're very upset, I mean, obviously. So Nixon, of course, lost the election with Jack Kennedy, and then he won in 68. So when he was going to be in his second term, he was going to be the person he thought would disclose all this and start bringing it forward. But the organization that's way more powerful than the presidency said, oh, no, you're not. You know, yes, I am. Oh, no, you're not. So Watergate did happen. But I mean, there's that kind of black bag stuff happens all the time in politics. I mean, I'm not excusing it. It's just it's a dirty business, a filthy business.

• 2:18:18Speaker 00

  So what happened is that there was a young reporter named Bob Wardard, who was actually naval intelligence in Pentagon. He was not a journalist. He got moved over to Washington Post, happened to have this whistleblower who then gas, you know, you know, the cover was let's expose the corruption that Nixon did, which he did. But it was really to remove him because he was hell bent, I'm bringing this stuff out. So a similar thing, of course, happened to Bill Clinton. The whole Monica Lewinsky thing. Linda Tripp was Army Intelligence NSA person,

• 2:19:00Speaker 00

  was put right beside Monica Lewinsky at a cubicle to get through social engineering befriending her the information about that affair.

• 2:19:09Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 2:19:09Speaker 00

  And then it was set up, because when he was asked about it, Clinton lied about it under oath, which led to his impeachment. That was also, and so when Hillary said, and I'm not excusing any kind of behavior. I'm not trying to, but I'm just telling you, this is how it is done. All right. So they can either kill you, they can threaten you, they can do all kinds of stuff, or they can set up something like that. Because very few people get at that level of national politics that are squeaky clean. And they're gonna know that and they can use it against you. So this is where people talk about welfare and all this stuff going on. It's been done for decades. I mean, let's face it.

• 2:19:55Speaker 00

  Nixon weaponized the IRS and the DOJ long before the people in the Trump circles started talking about welfare. That's a proven thing.

• 2:20:03Jesse Michels?

  Do you think there's any connection?

• 2:20:05Speaker 00

  And Nixon was a Republican.

• 2:20:07Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:07Speaker 00

  Right? So I mean, you know, this kind of dirty trick stuff's been going on since forever.

• 2:20:13Jesse Michels?

  Speaking of dirty trick stuff, is there any connection between Jeffrey Epstein and UFOs?

• 2:20:18Speaker 00

  I have no idea. And I actually, the salacious stuff related to that, it's like, oh my god.

• 2:20:25Speaker 00

  I'm not excusing any kind of underage whatever, but you know, I think that that was probably a op to try to pull in certain people and then have a blackmail file on them.

• 2:20:36Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, that seems like it.

• 2:20:38Speaker 00

  And I'm speaking with some absolute knowledge about it. Because there's a very senior person in the national security apparatus who was part of that, who's being kept on a short leash because they have a blackmail file on him. And so that's how it's done. So, you know, I could do a whole five-hour podcast with you about the techniques of counterintelligence and disinformation on this and the kind of dirty tricks run on people. And if they can't get something real, they'll make it up because with AI and deepfakes.

• 2:21:11Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:12Speaker 00

  I mean, they could show that everyone in this room having an orgy together. Right? They can take my voice and make me say anything. They can create any docs they want. It'll look absolutely authentic. In fact, I just had that happen last week. My iPhone was hacked into and all kinds of stuff. I was threatened.

• 2:21:29Jesse Michels?

  Oh, no.

• 2:21:30Speaker 00

  Oh, this has been happening since 91.

• 2:21:33Jesse Michels?

  Do you think that, aren't, isn't Tesla's stuff still classified by the US? And then I know Townsend Brown's is classified by the Navy. So we're talking about classifications of all these other things and declassifications of all these other things. What about the science? Like fundamental science shouldn't be classified. Can we get Tesla's work open source?

• 2:21:54Speaker 00

  Here's the problem.

• 2:21:57Speaker 00

  All of the, everything that doesn't fly or teleport should and could be, I mean, a lot of it be medical. I mean, I've seen some technologies at a underground lab on the Mexican-American border.

• 2:22:09Jesse Michels?

  Really?

• 2:22:10Speaker 00

  El Paso that you could regrow a limb, you could, a severed spinal cord could be corrected.

• 2:22:15Jesse Michels?

  Are you serious?

• 2:22:16Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:22:17Jesse Michels?

  But that's not being widely distributed?

• 2:22:19Speaker 00

  No, because the physics behind, I don't know if you have a physics background, the physics behind that.

• 2:22:25Jesse Michels?

  Scalar.

• 2:22:26Speaker 00

  No, trans-dimensional physics would be able to also quickly, to any scientist, be converted to, oh, I can generate energy from that.

• 2:22:35Jesse Michels?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:22:36Speaker 00

  All right, so and if you, in the energy sector that runs the planet where everyone's dependent on this line of supertankers and power plants and all of that, the whole Bretton Woods with the petrodollar, the dollar being the reserve currency because of petroleum, basically, a Ramco in Saudi Arabia was basically set up by the CIA. So all of that integrated macroeconomic issue is really one of the core reasons for the secrecy. And so, any technology that would open that door, they don't want out because it threatens the current order.

• 2:23:14Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:15Speaker 00

  And when I explained this to the Honorable Paul Hillier, who had been Minister of Defense, I was one of the reasons why he came out publicly. We did a press conference together in Toronto. His, before he contacted me, he contacted a four-star general in the United States because he read a book called The Day After Roswell by Philip Corso. And then he realized, this four-star general, he said, is this true? He says, oh, yeah, that and more. That general had been read on to it. And so, he called me up and we met. And I spent a lot of time at his place in Toronto. And I explained to him the whole macroeconomic order. How it runs, who runs it, etc.

• 2:24:01Speaker 00

  And it turned out he was a macroeconomist. And he said, I've never connected UFOs and ETs to the science and technology part dealing with energy. I say, well, bingo. That's the heart of it, right there. That and the militarization of the relationship between humans and non-human, so that the military-industrial complex can be this global behemoth that keeps sucking money out of the people and governments in endless war.

• 2:24:29Jesse Michels?

  Have you heard the name Tim Taylor ever?

• 2:24:31Speaker 00

  No, I don't know him.

• 2:24:33Jesse Michels?

  What about Ron Pandolfi? Have you heard that name?

• 2:24:35Speaker 00

  Oh, sure.

• 2:24:36Jesse Michels?

  What do you think of him? Is he, because he comes up a lot in this topic as, you know, somebody interested in it and, yeah, is he?

• 2:24:44Speaker 00

  You know, look, you bring up names a lot. You know what Eleanor Roosevelt said?

• 2:24:50Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, she did. So you're insulting me.

• 2:24:55Speaker 00

  Small minds talk about people, mediocre minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas.

• 2:25:00Jesse Michels?

  So you don't want to talk about Pandolfi?

• 2:25:02Speaker 00

  Well, there are a lot of, you can name a list forever. Yes, of course, he was, has been involved in those things. I think he's another person who's very knowledgeable and had been read on very early on in his career. And who I think really, I believe, really wants a correct outcome.

• 2:25:26Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 2:25:26Speaker 00

  Okay, so I think there are a lot of people that are, you know what one of, one of Jake's guys said to me?

• 2:25:36Speaker 00

  Wonderful man, brilliant, named Don Paul. I don't know if you've known Paul.

• 2:25:41Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, I've heard great things. I saw him get interviewed and Jake speaks.

• 2:25:44Speaker 00

  Just wonderful man. He had picked me up once in LA when I was doing something and, and he dropped me off, I don't know, at Airbnb where I was staying. And he said, he said, Dr. Gru, thank you for what you're doing for those of us stuck on the other side.

• 2:26:06Speaker 00

  And what he meant by that, we're stuck on the side of these illegally run, shadowy, legacy programs. But they're patriots, they're good men and women. They want out, but they need a way out. So that's what I'm trying to get the president through these five executive orders. Here they are, one page.

• 2:26:28Jesse Michels?

  Awesome.

• 2:26:29Speaker 00

  It's put in his hands.

• 2:26:30Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:30Speaker 00

  He has this.

• 2:26:31Jesse Michels?

  Very cool.

• 2:26:32Speaker 00

  Is that

• 2:26:33Jesse Michels?

  We'll link it.

• 2:26:33Speaker 00

  One of them has to be this complete amnesty and immunity and physical protection of these people, so they can come forward with everything they have. Right? But you can't expect people to do that naked, uncovered, when if they're doing so could result in their other families being killed, or they're being imprisoned under false pretenses.

• 2:26:57Jesse Michels?

  Of course.

• 2:26:57Speaker 00

  So I tell people, why, what good is there having an FBI, is what I'd say to Mr. Cash Patel, if it's not going to be used against the worst criminal enterprise within the US.

• 2:27:12Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:12Speaker 00

  The true deep state.

• 2:27:13Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:14Speaker 00

  That is victimizing patriots and heroes.

• 2:27:17Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:18Speaker 00

  Trying to come forward. I mean, this nonsense needs to come to a screeching halt. And a lot of these men and women, that's what they're waiting for. And we got really close to it when the Congress was supposed to pass that bill to give them safe harbor amnesty and protect them. But it was gutted by Turner, Rogers, Pelosi, some other people.

• 2:27:40Jesse Michels?

  For the skeptics out there, do you have a most kind of visceral convincing piece of evidence that you've seen in your life, or you're in possession of either a document or a piece of material where you're like, this is disclosure for me? You know, this is kind of obvious?

• 2:27:57Speaker 00

  It was the weight of the evidence. And, you know, I don't have a dead ET body or a craft I can haul out. But that's what I'm hoping this special operations team can acquire.

• 2:28:09Jesse Michels?

  Well, there you go.

• 2:28:10Speaker 00

  Because we know where they are.

• 2:28:11Jesse Michels?

  Do you feel like you're being

• 2:28:12Speaker 00

  So I know where the under, you know, if you look at our map, that's in, hold that up. This is the brief, there is a map in there that actually has where all the key black sites are and where all this stuff is.

• 2:28:24Jesse Michels?

  We'll throw it on.

• 2:28:25Speaker 00

  But it's all based on

• 2:28:28Speaker 00

  Frankly, intel from all these whistleblowers.

• 2:28:31Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, well, you had deep underground military bases are across the US and Bechtel has built a lot of them. I think we used techniques used by the Nazis, actually, after in World War II.

• 2:28:40Speaker 00

  Well, no, because in our archive, we have the actual 1960s patent for a nuclear powered tunneling device. And let me explain how it works. It goes through bedrock and basically turns it into glass.

• 2:28:53Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 2:28:54Speaker 00

  And so you have connectors from Nellis, Area 51, to Edwards, go underground, boom. Dougway, from the Capitol out to the mountains in Virginia. These have all been built. Now, of course, they don't want to disclose because it's a nuclear powered thing if it malfunctioned. But it's a nuclear powered device that Bechtel and other corporations have used to build not only the connectors, but the deep underground facilities. Most people call them STFs, subterranean facilities. Some people call them Dums, deep underground military bases. But it's a bit of a misnomer because military would connote the legal military. So you have the shadow

• 2:29:36Speaker 00

  government military, the Inouye, Senator Inouye talked about, and you have the conventional. Now, when I was briefing the senior investigators for Senate Intelligence Committee, when I first started meeting with them, they didn't know we had these facilities. They didn't know we had manmade UFOs. They didn't know the NRO had neutrino light detectors on them, picking up the signature of the ET craft and knocking them down. They didn't know, and the list goes on and on. And interestingly, the main guy I was talking with, in his portfolio of oversight for the Senate Intelligence Committee, was the NRO, CIA, and NSA. Totally had no knowledge of it. So I tell people, this is where it gets scary for me, as a

• 2:30:20Speaker 00

  young doctor, when I discovered something this important is being...

• 2:30:26Speaker 00

  Taken out of the hands of the oversight of we the people's government, the government that we elect and the people we appoint. And then the people who are in that system, because they're there, are basically not answering to the constitution, the president, or the will of the people and the congress, they're answering to this cabal of corrupt enterprises. And that is a very dangerous thing when you're dealing with technology at this level. And the human future. And this is where I'm fiercely, you know what it is, I feel like I'm a one-man anti-defamation league for ETs. Because everyone out there wants to have the good ones and the bad ones, where we're

• 2:31:10Speaker 00

  gonna have Star Wars and cowboys and Indian in space and an endless war of, I'm going, oh my god, can we just grow up out of that? I mean, this is so, first of all, it's so stupid. I mean, it's dumb, dumb, I mean, it's like...

• 2:31:25Jesse Michels?

  But it's hard to speculate on these things, I mean...

• 2:31:27Speaker 00

  No, it isn't.

• 2:31:27Jesse Michels?

  We don't have great data.

• 2:31:29Speaker 00

  You don't, because you haven't studied my stuff. We have great data.

• 2:31:34Jesse Michels?

  I've been looking through it.

• 2:31:35Speaker 00

  Go look up this reference that Jacques Vallée's document from the CIA has, it's black and white, says we're conducting the abductions. But it's not just in the United States, these operations are global. So, again, the other thing I said, so in the SCIF, a Secure Compartment and Information Facility, I'm in there, and there's a map on the wall. And it's a normal map of the world with all the geopolitical boundaries. I said, see that map? The boundary between America and Canada, erase it. The boundary between Mongolia and China, erase it. The boundary between wherever, India and China, it's gone.

• 2:32:19Speaker 00

  This organization moves with alacrity across the globe because their technologies allow complete covert movement, invisible movement. And they have assets everywhere. We know that there have been, apparently, a man-made UFO that went down in Russia. We found that confirmed recently from a special operations team. And there was one that crashed and went down in northern Iran, that we had to try to go in and top down. But, you know, we have the, this is the next one that just came out.

• 2:32:55Speaker 00

  Ouch, hurts to bend. I have these three big puncture things in my abdomen. So this is Disclosure in Illustrated History. And it's a 220, 30-page book. That has, you know, all the... I wonder where the Herrera one is?

• 2:33:13Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:14Speaker 00

  So they have all these cases. Oh, here's the Tic Tac.

• 2:33:19Jesse Michels?

  Oh, there you go. San Diego, California, 2004.

• 2:33:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, but we have one in there as a contrast from 1967 in Pennsylvania and 1991 off the Azores.

• 2:33:31Jesse Michels?

  Ah.

• 2:33:31Speaker 00

  Here is the Raytheon Triangle at Fort Irwin. That is man-made.

• 2:33:40Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 2:33:40Speaker 00

  And the guy who saw it in detail, because he picked up some night skids he was told not to, saw that there was this one, and then they were holographically projecting several others.

• 2:33:51Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 2:33:51Speaker 00

  This could be used in a false alien invasion, you know, like a hoaxed invasion. And then that later, he and his wife got abducted by this thing.

• 2:34:00Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:01Speaker 00

  And tortured.

• 2:34:02Jesse Michels?

  Whoa.

• 2:34:03Speaker 00

  And it was Raytheon. And everyone, I would say out of a million people...

• 2:34:07Jesse Michels?

  Do you have proof that it was Raytheon?

• 2:34:08Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, because he said the men who took him there were Raytheon operatives. They took him aside, wanted to show him this. But not without the night skids, so he saw more detail than they wanted. And for that reason, it ruined his life. Stephen Digna, wonderful man.

• 2:34:23Jesse Michels?

  Wow. And Werner von Braun was convinced that there would be this sort of false flag operation?

• 2:34:28Speaker 00

  Sure, because he knew when he died in 74, that was all fully operational.

• 2:34:32Jesse Michels?

  He worked with his assistant, right?

• 2:34:34Speaker 00

  His last spokesperson for his life. Carol Rosens on our team, wonderful woman.

• 2:34:40Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:41Speaker 00

  She's been trying to get a treaty signed that should have been signed decades ago, keeping these weapons out of space.

• 2:34:49Jesse Michels?

  Didn't she also tell you, though, that

• 2:34:52Speaker 00

  I'll let you find a rare one.

• 2:34:53Jesse Michels?

  That Werner von Braun used psychotronic weapons technology against her or something? Used some psychotronic technique?

• 2:34:59Speaker 00

  It wasn't against her, it was for him to transmit to her a speech he wanted to give to a big conference.

• 2:35:06Jesse Michels?

  Wow, and he used like a mind?

• 2:35:09Speaker 00

  Interface, yeah, a Neuralink sort of thing, but without the wires. You know what Elon's working with, with Neuralink? Think of it, what Jake's talked about with psionics, think of being able, and this is where my specialty came in, back in, after my contact experience in 73, is

• 2:35:29Speaker 00

  I realized that these civilizations have technologies that interface directly with coherent thought. So not just any scattered thing, but like if you like, the consciousness field is not limited by spacetime.

• 2:35:48Speaker 00

  And which means it is essentially omnipresent. So if you operate at a level of understanding that, and then with thought, intend,

• 2:35:58Speaker 00

  you can reach any place in spacetime, but also you can transmit information that way. And it can be received, but they're not just doing it telepathically like gurus. They have technologies that would look like a little box or a little device that can receive directed thought, consent and transmit. So in 1991, I wrote a paper, went all through the aerospace industry and CIA, which kind of also put me on the radar, talking about technology-assisted consciousness. Right, where that your technology can assist you in the ability. But also consciousness-assisted technology, where your thought,

• 2:36:39Speaker 00

  bioelectric field and thought can actually turn on a computer or affect remote places. But it can be done innately, you know, just through those powers and abilities that some telepathic and telekinetic people have, but it can be done technologically assisted. So that's why I call it T A C and C A T. So that's in my first book, Extraterrestrial Contact, The Evidence and Implications, but it's from 99. You can still get it. But I think that that describes this, and that is exactly what they have. So interstellar communications don't involve a smartphone going at the speed of light. They involve node-to-node quantum entanglement.

• 2:37:23Speaker 00

  So if you know what quantum entanglement is, every point in space is connected to every other in sort of a holographic non-locality. And so whether you're in an Andromeda galaxy and you're here, two and a half million light years, you're not going with a, you know, a Verizon signal at the speed of light because it would take two and a half million years to go one way, answer the call, it'd be another two and a half million years. It's going node-to-node through entanglement. But there are technologies that assist with that. But when you get to that level of physics, you also get into the telekinetic, psionic, telepathic capabilities, which can be interfaced technologically.

• 2:38:07Speaker 00

  So that's actually what we're doing with C E five contact. We're not using any technologies, but we know our friend, the visitors, they have it. So if you can remote view them, connect to them, and then invite them, we don't summon them. I told Jake, don't use the word summon. You summon your butler. If you're the king of England, you summon your valet. These are not your servants. It's a disrespectful term. We invite them. And so we say what we're trying to do is create a Ra'prolshmal and a contact between human and non-human for peaceful purposes. We're not here to summon them over and kill them. So that's the philosophy, let's say, or ethos behind C E five contact.

• 2:38:51Speaker 00

  And, you know, there are millions of people around the world doing that, and amazing.

• 2:38:57Speaker 00

  That gets me the most grief, you know Jake and I've talked about, other people have talked about. I said, but it's also why the CIA and military intelligence took us most seriously.

• 2:39:05Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:06Speaker 00

  Because they knew it worked. I mean, they knew when we had this group in 92 on a beach near Pensacola. And we had this 60 people for a week and demonstrating this, four of these craft just pop up right into, right there.

• 2:39:17Jesse Michels?

  They seem to take intense interest in people who attract UFOs. So in you, there's Chris Bledsoe, this case in North Carolina, where Hal Pavan Meyer, this long time NASA guy.

• 2:39:28Speaker 00

  And then he's been intercepted by Jim Semivan and other disinformation people who are eschatologists.

• 2:39:33Jesse Michels?

  So do you think he?

• 2:39:34Speaker 00

  They're fanatics who want the end of the world.

• 2:39:36Jesse Michels?

  Do you think Chris Bledsoe actually saw something or?

• 2:39:38Speaker 00

  Oh, sure, I'm likely, I don't know him. I don't know, because by the time I learned about it, he'd already been intercepted.

• 2:39:43Jesse Michels?

  But you think he got intercepted, he saw something and then?

• 2:39:45Speaker 00

  Absolutely, absolutely. Most people are, you know.

• 2:39:49Jesse Michels?

  And you think their interest, these, these military intel guys, their interest is in eschatology is in like?

• 2:39:56Speaker 00

  No, not all of them. I mean, like I said, you know, don't, you can't be simplistic here. Some are about macroeconomics, power, control, military industrial, endless war. Others have this sort of belief system.

• 2:40:08Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:40:09Speaker 00

  That we have to have some kind of end game Armageddon nonsense in order for Christ to come back, or the Messiah, if you're Jewish, or whatever, or the Maitre, or Buddhist, you know. All of that is of course, I think, a misinterpretation of things. I don't think it's the end of the world, it's the end of this era, the opening of another, a golden age. So I think if you look at what the so-called current cycle of the last 400,000 years, that's one cycle. I think we're coming to the end of that cycle, an opening in a cycle that will be universal, that'll be about another 500,000 years. That'll be marked by universal peace, not just world peace.

• 2:40:51Speaker 00

  Interstellar travel, a very advanced society here. And people being liberated financially and by the means of work. So their work week will become 10, 15 hours. And they'll be pursuing the development of higher states of consciousness. And all these other abilities that are innately within us, the human potential part. So I think that's where we should be going. Now, there are other people, when it's just a, it's like the Hopi prophecy. One line goes up and the other one terminates. The question is, do we want to be on the termination line? In which case, the only way to go forward is for our civilization to come out of the dust. Like at the Phoenix, out of the ruins.

• 2:41:31Jesse Michels?

  Rise from the ashes.

• 2:41:32Speaker 00

  Which can happen, but you know, why choose that when we can choose something else?

• 2:41:38Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:38Speaker 00

  So right now, the door is open for us to make that choice. Individually, collectively. The people who are proffering false information about the alien threat. That we don't have these technologies. If you say we don't have them, then everything going on, you can ascribe to aliens when it's not. That's the false flag. That's what I'm going to go after. Because people who say that, they're lying, they're either ignorant, or they're lying. Now Elon Musk recently said on Joe Rogan. He has an all access pass through Lockheed and Northrop.

• 2:42:12Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:13Speaker 00

  We don't have any of these technologies. The best technology out there is his rocket. To be honest with you, I don't know the gentleman. I have no idea if he's not been read on, or if he's deliberately deceiving.

• 2:42:27Jesse Michels?

  What would be your guess?

• 2:42:28Speaker 00

  I wouldn't wager one, because I could see it either way. Because of the level of people I've met with, and have met with recently.

• 2:42:35Jesse Michels?

  He's gotta know. If, if, in the world in which UFOs and zero point energy, all these things are real, he's gotta, he's gotta be the, you know.

• 2:42:43Speaker 00

  But no, but here's the problem.

• 2:42:45Jesse Michels?

  He doesn't have an all access pass?

• 2:42:46Speaker 00

  I was once at a meeting with a chairman of SRI and AT&T. They have compartment operations that have dealt with this. Bell Labs and all that. This is back in the 90s.

• 2:43:01Speaker 00

  And they said to me.

• 2:43:04Speaker 00

  We suspect there are projects in our companies, Stanford Research Internet, dealing with this, but we're read onto them. So there's a very big mistake people make. Oh, he's the president, he's chairman of Senate Intelligence, he's another general I briefed was the head of the Defense Intelligence Agency. Now, for people who don't know, DIA, Defense Intelligence Agency, is the top military intelligence organization for the whole Pentagon and military, like CIA is for civilian. And I briefed a three-star general, Patrick Hughes. He had absolutely, we'd gotten him briefing materials before the meeting, like I had for

• 2:43:47Speaker 00

  Admiral Wilson and these sort of things. He had no knowledge. And when he made an inquiry, he just got brushed off. And yet, I have a disclosure project witness that worked for DIA and with, and also NRO, imaging these objects, okay, out in space. And he was very upset, General Hughes, because I'm in the conference room for the general. And I said, "Look, there are people on your staff who absolutely have been read into this, and they're lying to you."

• 2:44:17Jesse Michels?

  How does that work? Like, just as far as there being no clear chain of command? Like, how do you have pockets of middle management that are read in?

• 2:44:25Speaker 00

  It's corruption.

• 2:44:26Jesse Michels?

  And then higher up, you know, their, their superiors don't know what's going on. Because I, I've heard stories like that, too.

• 2:44:32Speaker 00

  They're huge organizations, and the people who are corrupt, who are getting money out of the back.

• 2:44:38Jesse Michels?

  They get kind of paid backdoor by the international, transnational.

• 2:44:41Speaker 00

  Of course, they're cutouts. They're operatives. And, you know, I mean, there are all kinds of NOCs, nonofficial cover people.

• 2:44:47Jesse Michels?

  So this is really an issue of both corporate and American sovereignty? Because it's, you're sort of, you have this, like, backdoor funneling of money in many cases, right?

• 2:44:57Speaker 00

  Yes, there's the legal black budget of the United States, right? That the president and a gang of eight, the top people in the Congress know about.

• 2:45:06Jesse Michels?

  Sure.

• 2:45:07Speaker 00

  Not all the congressmen.

• 2:45:09Speaker 00

  And I deal with those folks, but then there's the illegal black budget. And I tell people, let's make it simple for the average person. You know, if we get billed $2 billion for a B-2 stealth bomber. It's probably costing less than 100 million to make it. I mean, come on, once you've made a few of them.

• 2:45:28Jesse Michels?

  Does B-2 stand for bi-pilled brown? Do you think it's towns and brown?

• 2:45:31Speaker 00

  Well, wait, let me finish. The rest of the money goes out the back door, the other 1.8 or 1.9 billion. It's out the back door into these clandestine illegal man-made UFO projects. So, you know, I've been over sites where these objects that are man-made come up out of the desert, up to an opening, come up into the air, and they're 100% man-made. And I would say that almost everyone in the normal government, let's call it the regular con- would think it was, oh, my God, it's a UAP. Well, I guess it is. It's unexplained to them.

• 2:46:14Speaker 00

  It's, you know, it's an unknown to them. But see, that's where it's dangerous. Because one of the reasons I had the meeting with General Hughes was one of his colleagues, if you look at our disclosure witness, Merle Shane McDowell, look it up, it's in here. He was working under Sink Atlantic Command, the Commander in Chief Atlantic Command in Norfolk. And they went to a full code zebra alert, which means the facility shut down, you had to have zebra stripes on your badge, or you were shocked by the Marines there with M16s. Everyone had to be cleared out. So I've been there, it's an underground place, it's where World War III would be fought, all the nuclear submarines that we have.

• 2:46:58Speaker 00

  I've been in there, and my military escort took me in. Admiral Train, Admiral Harry Train back then, this was in the 80s. An object came in off the coast of Newfoundland. And it was what you said about Jack Kennedy trying to de-conflict this problem with the Soviets. We thought it was a Soviet object or missile. And so he picked up the red line to the Soviet Union, this is eighties. It wasn't theirs, wasn't ours, or that he knew of. It came off down the coast, ended up being on five radar stations. We deployed an aircraft to shoot it down. And it couldn't, but it took, had gun camera.

• 2:47:41Speaker 00

  And the admiral and this gentleman saw that footage. I don't have it, it's somewhere. And, but the admiral was shaken to his face, he had no idea what this was. We could have gone the nuclear war over this mishap. Think about it. The guy sitting there in some commander in chief, Atlantic Command, four star admiral. Not read into this. So when I found out the head of the Defense Intelligence Agency wasn't read on, and he's the top of that whole system for military intelligence. I realized this is really dangerous. That people at that level of our government are completely unaware of this and would, could mistake

• 2:48:24Speaker 00

  a manmade UFO with an alien one, or something from another country. And trigger World War Three, either on, off planet, or on planet. So this information is of enormous national security consequence. But it's never been treated that way. See, this is the problem. You know, it's movies, it's podcasts, it's entertainment, it's... But no, this is of the gravest level of national security of anything I've ever heard of. And I've been around a long time, looking at a lot of spooky stuff. So that is where, this is how a country like ours, or others, get, they get sort of stumbled into a war, is what happened with the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.

• 2:49:08Speaker 00

  So we have to be careful here. Because here we're not talking about a kinetic war with boom boom. You know, bombs and cannons and the meat grinder of Ukraine and Russia. We're talking about something that's very dangerous. Orders of magnitude more dangerous. And it simply is not being looked at and managed in a way. Now these executive orders, that...

• 2:49:33Speaker 00

  One, I've mentioned the ones about the whistleblowers and having a, an operation to get these stood down, you know, like the facilities that have been targeting these craft that are ET and knocking them down, that needs to be stood down because that could, that could lead to World War III. Then, and we need one that requires all these operations to fully disclose within six months or the people involved would be prosecuted for treason and other crimes. We need an executive order to authorize an advanced diplomatic team based on CE5 contact to make peaceful contact with these non-human.

• 2:50:12Speaker 00

  Because there has been no response from humans that has been anything but denial or violent. Very ridiculous. That's why I started this whole project in 1990. It was to, to address this issue that they're there, but how are we reaching out to them? Nobody is. Not the United Nations, no Foreign Ministry, our State Department, it's all off, it's an unknown subject. So that has to be done and we need an executive order authorizing the review and release of the technologies, as I said, but excluding things that could be used as a weapon system. Right?

• 2:50:54Speaker 00

  But things that would ameliorate the environmental problems and poverty on the planet and eventually give the whole world what this executive chairman of this big corporation said, free energy for the whole world. Because you're pulling energy out of this subatomic field. Hydrogen atom is key to this, by the way.

• 2:51:17Jesse Michels?

  Interesting.

• 2:51:18Speaker 00

  Yeah. We're getting to the weeds here of physics, but.

• 2:51:20Jesse Michels?

  If you were able to separate the oxygen and hydrogen bonds, oh, the hydrogen atom.

• 2:51:26Speaker 00

  I'm talking about the atom. So what people don't, here's the secret about Stan Meyer's little giddy.

• 2:51:32Speaker 00

  He didn't know it at the time because they didn't have the tools to measure it. It was an empirical observation. I mean, it was just observed in the real world. So empiricism is the foundation of science. You know, like, we can observe the effect of something like a substance that's in foxtail. The herb, digitoxin, which actually is used in medicine for congestive heart failure. Well, it was discovered a hundred and some years ago. We observed the effect, but it was only very recently that we knew what the actual mechanism of action at a molecular and physics level was of this hundred-year-old medicine. Same thing with aspirin. We knew it had these effects. We didn't know how it worked until not that long ago.

• 2:52:16Speaker 00

  So this man, Stan Meyer, observed an effect that at certain frequencies, water would dissociate into hydrogen and oxygen at less than the Faraday constant. The amount of energy needed to dissociate it. What he didn't know, which has been documented. We mentioned this in our documentary, The Lost Century, if anyone wants to look at it. Go to Tubi. It's up there for free.

• 2:52:41Speaker 00

  And it describes that when you do the very electrostatic, high-voltage system he was using at certain frequencies, it creates these tiny little, like, ball lightning effects that it kind of, tiny little explosions that activate and perturb, stimulate that zero-point quantum vacuum field. And that's why the energy that he was getting out. In other words, if you just took the energy of oxygen and water, I mean, oxygen and hydrogen, if you separated them into the two gases and burned it, he was getting much more energy than that, but he didn't know where it was coming from. That's where it's coming from.

• 2:53:25Speaker 00

  So now we know the physics of that. And I would like to see if anyone's listening who's actually venture capital, let's start a venture capital fund to do this. Because I've got the people who can do it, but we don't have the funding. But here's a warning to you money-grubbing whores. It's gonna, it's gonna be open sourced. It's gonna be like GitHub. It's gonna be put out openly to the public.

• 2:53:47Jesse Michels?

  We have a mutual friend, Adam Curry. He's super deep in a lot of these technologies.

• 2:53:51Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. He's a wonderful guy.

• 2:53:52Jesse Michels?

  He's great, yeah. Big fan of his.

• 2:53:54Speaker 00

  But someone's gonna have to actually set up a secure lab that would be Own blockchain, but open to the internet. Everything going on is known in real time, no secrets, sell back. So you're not going to do the whole. Here's the problem, people think they're so clever. They're going to work on this, it'll be secret. Yeah, until they kill you. The Stan Meyer guys, you know, those guys who got the Stan Meyer collection? And that toroid? All of them at one were killed. And before they were killed, that Lord, I won't say his name, Lord so and so. Out of the United Kingdom, who was a funder, called me up and said, Dr. Greer, we need your help. Day late and a dollar short.

• 2:54:39Speaker 00

  They're after them, they figured out how these things work. And they think they need to move their lab from Michigan to another country. I said, bro, you're going to have to move your lab to another star system. This organization will hunt you down anywhere. And what they need to do is dump everything they have through blockchain, on the internet, and out to the public. But see, they had such a, excuse my language, they had a hard on for getting the money and monetizing it and keeping it, you know, their own little secret thing. Next thing I, so I wrote a whole, I don't know, a couple page thing, strategy for them. I think it's in our archive. It is.

• 2:55:22Speaker 00

  But taking the name off of the Lord so and so. Because he doesn't want to be known publicly, but.

• 2:55:28Jesse Michels?

  That's amazing though, somebody in the House of Lords was funding this free energy.

• 2:55:32Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, everyone's interested in this, if you've got a thinking mind. And you're concerned about the world, if you care about the world at all, but it was done incorrectly. So, and I warned them at the front end of it, I said, if you do this the way you're planning to do it, you're dead men walking. Sure enough, a few years later, I meet with a guy in Orange County who knew the one survivor of that. He says, and the guy was crying like a baby, he said, all the rest were killed. I said, of course. What do you think would happen? They were obscure, secret, unprotected.

• 2:56:03Speaker 00

  And you don't, I don't care if you're Elon Musk, you don't have enough money to keep yourself safe from that crowd.

• 2:56:09Jesse Michels?

  How do you think you-

• 2:56:09Speaker 00

  So you have to open source it.

• 2:56:11Jesse Michels?

  How do you think you've been able to survive, have attempts have been made on your life, right?

• 2:56:15Speaker 00

  Oh, sure.

• 2:56:16Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. And do you feel, do you feel protected by the ETs?

• 2:56:20Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:56:21Jesse Michels?

  You do?

• 2:56:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:56:22Jesse Michels?

  Even guided by them?

• 2:56:23Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 2:56:24Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 2:56:24Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 2:56:25Jesse Michels?

  That's fascinating.

• 2:56:25Speaker 00

  They have a security team and-

• 2:56:27Jesse Michels?

  Wow. That's amazing. Like a physical security team, or it's more like, sort of ephemeral as far as how they-

• 2:56:33Speaker 00

  No, it's both. Yeah. But they, I mean, look, they can move between dimensions and-

• 2:56:38Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 2:56:39Speaker 00

  You know, I put, look, when I died, one of the great things of having been so sick and died, this is kind of worse because I'm a-

• 2:56:49Speaker 00

  But you, if you have that kind of experience, I'm not particularly religious at all, but in terms of organized religion, but spiritual, yes.

• 2:57:01Speaker 00

  And Jake and I have talked about that, is that what you're afraid of what? You know, if you know there, if you know that your conscious self continues in higher and higher states of consciousness forever, why are you, so, you know, make my day and kill me. I've seen the other side, it's beautiful. So, I don't want to, I mean, look, I have 12 grandkids and four daughters, I mean, I'm not going anywhere.

• 2:57:27Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:57:27Speaker 00

  Unless it's my time, maybe when my ticket gets punched, I'm out, you know, but, so I sort of like, give it to the great spirit, you know, and say what happens, happens. But what it means is, it liberates you from having your life guided through fear. So remember how controlling fear is. Fear of the aliens, fear of Armageddon, fear of being tortured, fear of poverty, fear of having your secrets exposed, fear, they, these evildoers, these thugs, control through fear.

• 2:58:02Jesse Michels?

  Yes.

• 2:58:02Speaker 00

  But remember, fear is the mind killer. It makes people take leave of their intellect and their spiritual faculties. So that is why demagogues, religious, political, what have you, they're very adept at utilizing fear for control. That's my big concern and my beef with most people in the UFO subculture, who put out these fearsome dystopian views of the ETs, but also at the same breath, cover up the fact, we have the technology to stage everything that would look ET that isn't. So with that being said, if it's just at a UFO conference with a few hundred

• 2:58:45Speaker 00

  aficionados of this, that's one thing. But when it gets to where someone like that is in major media or talking to Don Jr., this nonsense, I have a problem with that because that has consequences. So people need to be very careful about that because there's a whole team of people who are attached to senior national security now, who know that's going on. And if we can get a law enforcement operation stood up, not just investigate, because we're doing that, but to actually act, take action, anyone on the wrong side of this, wittingly, knowingly, is going to be in a world of trouble

• 2:59:26Speaker 00

  because you're really talking about colluding with a treasonous group of people who are an imminent threat to national security. So I say that, and people say, are you making a threat? I said, no, I'm just saying that it goes to follow that once people at a certain level, a government realized that they've been had and they've been deceived and lied to, they have the mechanism to fix it. Now, maybe it would be fixed clandestinely, we wouldn't know about it. Fine. But I'm saying to the public, anyone who has actionable intelligence needs to come forward to us very soon. If you're on the wrong side of this, we can get you on the right side and we can get you immunity. Right, we can.

• 3:00:11Speaker 00

  Now, even without an executive order, law enforcement at a certain level has the ability to immunize people. If, big if, they completely come clean. So it's transactional in the sense that you would have to come clean with everything and not be involved any further into illegal operations, and then you would be immunized. So I was told a few months ago that can be done. So I'm making an appeal to people. Now, if you're gonna do it, now's the time to do it. You don't wanna, you wanna be on the right side of history, you don't wanna be on the wrong side of this. Because ultimately, truth will come out about it.

• 3:00:52Speaker 00

  And it's gonna be better for people if they do what Jake and his guys are trying or just starting to do a little bit, and step over into the correct side of it.

• 3:01:04Jesse Michels?

  What do you think of his new private venture, his company?

• 3:01:07Speaker 00

  Oh, I don't know. I mean, you know, wishing luck. I mean, so long as it's non-kinetic against the ETs, it's fine. I think mostly what they're encountering are our stuff.

• 3:01:18Jesse Michels?

  Okay, interesting.

• 3:01:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, because...

• 3:01:21Jesse Michels?

  Because it's on a range that where our stuff might fly or something?

• 3:01:25Speaker 00

  Look, remember, eighty, ninety percent of everything people see out there, they're calling a UAP, is our stuff. I mean, and a lot of it is so advanced now, it can mimic an ET object. So it takes a lot of information and experience to distinguish the two.

• 3:01:44Jesse Michels?

  But he would have the experience, right, to distinguish?

• 3:01:47Speaker 00

  No, he even admits that it's at the point that, and I will admit, that, as I said earlier, this technology curve keeps going up of human reverse engineering. So when you've had some of the highest IQ brains in the world gifted, who worked in these programs, studying the real ET material, material science, physics, all of it.

• 3:02:15Speaker 00

  You're going to eventually be at a level of close to parity where what happens is that even a very experienced operator like Jake and his guys or me, and I've been involved in contact with ETs since I was eight years old seeing them, you know, and then even more intimate contact, you can be easily deceived and this is dangerous. So this is why 30 years ago, I raised the alarm bell. This is going on, but technology doesn't stand still. It's not like we got the ARV from 19 late 50s, 60s, you know, that Mark McCandlish's drawings and

• 3:02:53Jesse Michels?

  Sure.

• 3:02:53Speaker 00

  You know, Brad Sorenson went to this airshow in 1988. That's in here.

• 3:02:57Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, you have the mama bear and papa bear acorn shaped UFOs.

• 3:03:02Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 3:03:02Jesse Michels?

  And he was shown this video and he was with this Italian financier and they go to this sort of back of the house thing and then they have this, these magneto hydrodynamic drives underneath and so

• 3:03:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, but the hangar at Norton, which has been decommitted 88, that was an airshow to get more money from the Reagan era people. And there were three of them. There was the baby, the mama and the granddad.

• 3:03:22Jesse Michels?

  Exactly.

• 3:03:23Speaker 00

  And those three, that was real. But you know when those were built?

• 3:03:27Jesse Michels?

  When were they built?

• 3:03:28Speaker 00

  Late 50s, early 60s.

• 3:03:30Jesse Michels?

  Well, they had a lot of wear and tear on them according to Brad Sorenson.

• 3:03:33Speaker 00

  The interior, if you, I have a full transcript of Brad Sorenson talking to an aerospace writer. And those components on the inside were from the Mercury Space Capsule era.

• 3:03:47Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 3:03:48Speaker 00

  Late 50s, early 60s.

• 3:03:50Jesse Michels?

  But then James Allen, the creator of the movie about Mark McCandlish, Zero Point or whatever, he died of an aggressive form of cancer and they found heavy metals in his autopsy. I don't know if you're familiar?

• 3:04:03Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. I mean, look, a lot of people in my team, I've had, I was, me and my best friend and assistant at the time, and a member of Congress all got aggressive metastatic cancers.

• 3:04:14Jesse Michels?

  Jesus.

• 3:04:15Speaker 00

  And yeah, I almost died. I had metastatic malignant melanoma.

• 3:04:18Jesse Michels?

  You think that was brought on by this?

• 3:04:19Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, absolutely. We know how it's done. I've gone through hell. But, you know, and, but the point I'm making is those, the folks involved in these programs who want to come forward, you know, they are at some significant risk until The government of the good guys, let's say, in government, representing we the people who aren't read into this, stand up an operation to stop it. Because otherwise, it's an unchecked rogue power with unbelievably malicious intent. And, you know, you can't let that go on for, I mean, it's been going on for 70 years.

• 3:05:02Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:05:02Speaker 00

  Can't go on for another 10. I don't think it can go on for another 5. This is why I think, whether you love or like him, the current president, that administration's gonna have to deal with this.

• 3:05:12Jesse Michels?

  If we're at technological parity.

• 3:05:14Speaker 00

  Whether they like it or not.

• 3:05:15Jesse Michels?

  If we're at technological parity with these extraterrestrials, how can we be sure that the crashes that, or not even crashes, the vehicles that Jake Barber and his team retrieved were in fact of extraterrestrial origin, the Ag and the Aegon at these test ranges in California? If we're at parity and it's hard to distinguish, how do we know?

• 3:05:36Speaker 00

  Well, you have to actually get to the point where who's on board? And is it a man-made alien or a real one? Because we have man-made ones that are both robotic and partially biological.

• 3:05:47Jesse Michels?

  Is there anything about his testimony that makes you confident? That, you know, I look, I think he seems very sophisticated and experienced.

• 3:05:54Speaker 00

  Oh, no, I'm, no, he has definitely dealt with retrieving the non-human, but he's also has seen and seen the testing of the man-made ones.

• 3:06:04Jesse Michels?

  Okay, and so it's his experience with both that gives him conviction?

• 3:06:07Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 3:06:08Jesse Michels?

  And then it's hard to say, because a lot of the stuff is classified as far as the differences or whatever? Because I'm just trying to think through it first principles for me, and I'm like, I don't.

• 3:06:16Speaker 00

  And I go through the same algorithm when I'm out there with my team looking at something.

• 3:06:20Jesse Michels?

  Got it.

• 3:06:21Speaker 00

  You know, is it real or is it Memorex, like the old commercials, you know? You know, is it a well-done human facsimile?

• 3:06:28Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:06:29Speaker 00

  Or is it an actual extraterrestrial vehicle or an NHI craft? Now, the best way to do it is if the, if that object responds very clearly to what I call the coherent thought intention, that ain't ours. That's ET. So one of the tests we do is Conscious Mind-Matter Consciousness-Technology Interface. And if that. It gets confirmed, very likely, it's ET. If it doesn't, I'm kind of agnostic about it and say, well, that might have been ours,

• 3:07:10Speaker 00

  it might have been theirs, and without enough data, who knows? And we have had experiences where the ETs themselves have teleported right into our circle or near our circle. We have a couple of great photographs of them.

• 3:07:25Jesse Michels?

  Why are you so controversial? I tweeted today that I'd be speaking to you. I was very excited for this. For me, this was a, you know, a long time coming. I was really excited to just dive deep with you. And I want to say, most people were pretty positive on Twitter, but there was a subset of people that were like, ask them about, ask them about the flares at the CE5 thing, like you see put up.

• 3:07:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, you know, that was put out. I'm going, I don't know anyone who's ever done that at any of our events. And I certainly haven't.

• 3:07:51Jesse Michels?

  So you're on record, that's fake, according to you. That's fake.

• 3:07:54Speaker 00

  Oh, 100%. 100%. But here's what's gonna happen. Anything like that can be an orb. If you want someone who wants to defame you to say, oh, well, that was something Greer paid someone. First of all, I don't have the assets to do that. And secondly, I've never done something like that. It put me under a sodium pentathol. But those things are put out there to discredit someone who's actually telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. That's what they don't want to hear. They want you to tell a partial truth that comports with the false disclosure. So there's two disclosures starting to happen. There's the actual truthful disclosure, and there's the truth that serves the secret agenda.

• 3:08:34Speaker 00

  In 1999, go look it up, I wrote a paper, and it's called, When Disclosure Serves Secrecy. So when a disclosure is spun in the direction, ala Elizondo, ala Sheehan, ala Gary Nolan, ala...

• 3:08:53Jesse Michels?

  Sheehan? You don't like Sheehan?

• 3:08:55Speaker 00

  Well, he was our lawyer, but then he went over to Elizondo.

• 3:08:58Jesse Michels?

  Oh, would you ever debate Elizondo?

• 3:09:00Speaker 00

  Oh, sure. No problem.

• 3:09:02Jesse Michels?

  I think he's gonna be in town tomorrow.

• 3:09:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, all the time.

• 3:09:04Jesse Michels?

  Do you have any?

• 3:09:05Speaker 00

  I'm on another show and then I fly up tomorrow night and I'm injured, so.

• 3:09:09Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 3:09:09Speaker 00

  But this is the, I don't know if you showed this when Mr. Herrera was there.

• 3:09:14Jesse Michels?

  Oh, yeah, he had a model of this.

• 3:09:15Speaker 00

  Oh, good, good, good. Yeah, so just so to. So this is one of the cases in this new book. By the way, everyone can order this. It's hard and soft copy.

• 3:09:23Jesse Michels?

  That's an awesome book.

• 3:09:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:09:25Jesse Michels?

  And Michael Schrat is a great illustrator and researcher.

• 3:09:29Speaker 00

  No, he didn't do the illustrations.

• 3:09:30Jesse Michels?

  Oh, he didn't do the illustrations?

• 3:09:31Speaker 00

  Those were done by a professional artist.

• 3:09:33Jesse Michels?

  Okay, okay.

• 3:09:34Speaker 00

  And some of them he had done before we had.

• 3:09:36Jesse Michels?

  Well, he helped organize your archive, right?

• 3:09:37Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 3:09:38Jesse Michels?

  And he's former Lockheed Martin?

• 3:09:39Speaker 00

  Yep, yeah, but not doing this stuff. He was drafting and doing stuff that conventional.

• 3:09:44Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 3:09:44Speaker 00

  You know, Mr. Schrat was not part of the skunk works.

• 3:09:48Jesse Michels?

  Got it, got it.

• 3:09:50Speaker 00

  By the way, James Goodall, Jim Goodall's friend of mine, and he probably was the last man to talk to.

• 3:09:59Jesse Michels?

  Ben Rich.

• 3:09:59Speaker 00

  Ben Rich before he died and said, you know, Ben Rich said, "Ah, anything you can imagine that you've seen on Star Trek and this and that, we already have done at the skunk works." And then he said, "It's not at Area 51. It's out in the desert there."

• 3:10:14Speaker 05

  If you want to talk regarding Jim Goodall, I'll be happy to get him on the phone right, right this very second if you want to. We'll do this live.

• 3:10:21Jesse Michels?

  Let's, let's call him.

• 3:10:21Speaker 05

  All right, do it.

• 3:10:23Jesse Michels?

  This is awesome.

• 3:10:24Speaker 05

  Hey, Jim, are you there?

• 3:10:28Speaker 05

  That's okay, that's okay. So ju- just a quick review. I'm doing this in real time. I'm in, I'm in Austin, Texas. I'm with Jesse Michaels. I'm doing an interview. We were talking about John Lear. We were talking about your good friend at You Nowhere. So could you talk about, you know, paraphrase here, talk about what Ben Rich told you at the hospital just before he passed away?

• 3:10:54Speaker 03

  Just before Ben Rich passed away, when I was talking to him, he told me, at the end of a forty-five minute conversation, he said, Jim, we have things out in the desert, and he was in Return to Area 51, we have things out in the desert that is fifty years beyond what you can comprehend. I can comprehend a hell of a lot. And he said, if you've seen, if you've seen movies like Star Trek or Star Wars, we've been there, done that, or decided it wasn't worth the effort.

• 3:11:29Speaker 00

  I've been to that site. I have videotape and photographs from my iPhone, flying in a chopper over the Lockheed Skunk Works site where the man-made stuff comes up.

• 3:11:40Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 3:11:41Speaker 00

  So, when I gave that to Senate Intelligence Committee in September of twenty-three, about a year, year and a half ago, about three weeks later, someone saw through the bolt that holds my mountain bike seat on, and it fell, and I went down, and my left leg came off, my foot came off, you see the pictures, and these two bones are in the air, my left shoulder was ripped off, and my right lower abdomen was split. I had four surgeries in three months.

• 3:12:15Jesse Michels?

  So that was an attempt on your leg?

• 3:12:16Speaker 00

  And, who knows, I mean, somebody messed with that. So, but, you know, I went through rehab and physical therapy, and I'm back working out, and I was fine till this happened, because I leg press seven hundred pounds, and I work out hard.

• 3:12:31Jesse Michels?

  Seven hundred pounds? Oh my God.

• 3:12:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:12:35Jesse Michels?

  That's amazing.

• 3:12:36Speaker 00

  I work out, I mean, I'm an old guy, but I try to stay strong.

• 3:12:37Jesse Michels?

  You're seventy, and your bench, your leg pressing?

• 3:12:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, in June, June I'll be seventy, and June twenty-eighth I turn seventy.

• 3:12:45Jesse Michels?

  That's impressive, man.

• 3:12:46Speaker 00

  So I just work out hard, but luckily, because I work out hard, you know, I was in good enough shape that the rehab period, you know, it was hard, I mean, and because I had no arm or leg, I was in a wheelchair, and anyone who knows me knows I'm very active, and it was like, that was torture. So, but I recovered, and been fine till my appendix ruptured yesterday, but...

• 3:13:14Jesse Michels?

  I don't need your appendix.

• 3:13:15Speaker 00

  Ah.

• 3:13:15Jesse Michels?

  It's a vestigial.

• 3:13:16Speaker 00

  Vestigial organ.

• 3:13:17Jesse Michels?

  That's right.

• 3:13:18Speaker 00

  Snip, snip.

• 3:13:18Jesse Michels?

  That's right.

• 3:13:19Speaker 00

  When the nurse was rolling me out last night at about ten or whatever at the hospital.

• 3:13:24Jesse Michels?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:13:24Speaker 00

  I'm in a wheelchair because I'm still kind of a little loopy from the anesthesia.

• 3:13:29Jesse Michels?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:13:30Speaker 00

  And she says, have you forgotten anything? Because I had to get dressed and I said, well, I think I forgot. Oh, I've left my appendix back there. And I said, go get my appendix. I was joking.

• 3:13:42Jesse Michels?

  That's gone for good.

• 3:13:43Speaker 00

  Oh, we cut up a lot. I mean, as an ER, you know, I'll tell you, when you're dealing with major emergency trauma like I did.

• 3:13:50Jesse Michels?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:13:51Speaker 00

  You gotta develop a sense of humor.

• 3:13:53Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:13:53Speaker 00

  Or you're gonna eat your gun, you know? I mean, this stuff, when you deal at this level, you gotta have a sense of humor.

• 3:13:59Jesse Michels?

  I mean, yeah.

• 3:14:00Speaker 00

  And you gotta have fun.

• 3:14:01Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:14:02Speaker 00

  And you gotta have, I mean, my assistant here, Raven, and is an angel. She's been 27 years with me. My wife and I, 46 years together.

• 3:14:10Jesse Michels?

  Congratulations.

• 3:14:11Speaker 00

  I have dear friends that I've been with since, for 50 years. So, you know, you have to develop a support team.

• 3:14:18Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:14:19Speaker 00

  And network of people who, you know, and you have to learn to have fun.

• 3:14:22Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:14:23Speaker 00

  I'm a party animal. If you ever go out partying with, I'm wild, man.

• 3:14:30Jesse Michels?

  That's funny. I feel like I've become a more a...

• 3:14:34Speaker 00

  Oh, I'll be out three or four in the morning having a great time.

• 3:14:38Jesse Michels?

  I've become more lame since. All my, you know, whatever partying I used to do has gone into the craziness of the topic. The topic is so crazy that I'm like a...

• 3:14:46Speaker 00

  You gotta bring balance, man. You have to balance, yeah.

• 3:14:48Jesse Michels?

  Fair enough, fair enough.

• 3:14:49Speaker 00

  Balance, mind, body, spirit. You have to balance it all.

• 3:14:51Jesse Michels?

  That's true, yeah, always. Yeah, everything in moderation, including moderation.

• 3:14:56Speaker 00

  Everything in moderation. Oh, no, I've never done drugs or anything, but, you know.

• 3:14:59Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:14:59Speaker 00

  I was telling someone, someone once bought me a third tequila shot.

• 3:15:03Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:15:04Speaker 00

  Oh, my God, wasn't tequila, I got so wild. It was on Halloween. I'd never had had a tequila shot. I never drank liquor, that liquor. But it was like, whoa, you know, I was like, wild man, turned loose, you know?

• 3:15:16Jesse Michels?

  Well, maybe at some point we'll be partying with the ET.

• 3:15:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, man. They have, actually, they have a great sense of humor.

• 3:15:23Jesse Michels?

  Uh-huh.

• 3:15:23Speaker 00

  They can be very playful and childlike.

• 3:15:26Jesse Michels?

  Uh-huh.

• 3:15:27Speaker 00

  And very high Qs, if we had a scale, 450.

• 3:15:31Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:15:31Speaker 00

  In that range.

• 3:15:32Jesse Michels?

  Do you think they're hybrids among us?

• 3:15:35Speaker 00

  Well, look, I think all of life in the universe is a hybrid. We're gonna get into something here that's very complex.

• 3:15:41Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 3:15:42Speaker 00

  But if you understand Rupert Sheldrake's morphogenic fields.

• 3:15:47Jesse Michels?

  Oh yeah, he's a friend of mine. I love him.

• 3:15:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant guy.

• 3:15:50Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:15:52Speaker 00

  So anything that starts to happen through non-locality and in conscious, the conscious field, can begin to replicate. So look at the entire creation that way.

• 3:16:01Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:16:02Speaker 00

  So I look at this from a very, you know, conscious, quantum, holographic point of view. Which integrates, it's integrative. Now, there's a place for reductionism, where you break everything into parts. I mean, medicine, science, you have to do that. But there's a place to also bring in this more holistic and the whole, the totality of it. That has to do with the conscious holography of the cosmos. And that's what's fascinating. I think civilizations that have survived this sort of crazy time we're in, and have made it through the nuclear threshold and the transdimensional threshold and become peaceful.

• 3:16:47Speaker 00

  One of the reasons why I don't think they're hostile is that if you have that consciousness that humans have, you're gonna destroy yourself before you get out of your solar system. Look at us.

• 3:16:56Jesse Michels?

  Hit the great.

• 3:16:56Speaker 00

  On the brink of World War III with Russia and China. You know, if you don't evolve a certain level of peaceful consciousness. So I always tell people, we have a lot of problems. But the root of it is very, not religious. The root of it is social, spiritual, conscious evolution. Because if we don't evolve to a certain level of that consciousness of peace and seeing the oneness of life here and out there, there's no future for humanity, because we're not using just muskets and, you know, bows and arrows, or even whatever. Now we have weapons of mass destruction that can destroy the planet.

• 3:17:38Speaker 00

  And in these covert programs, they have technologies way beyond a hydrogen bomb that are supercharged, quantum, potential, scaler-type weapons. So you really can't go forward as a people. And I think that other civilizations have passed this way before. And if they survive that threshold, or maybe they crashed and came back out of it, they've learned a very big lesson. What I'd like to see is humanity come out of this era where we are now, instead of crashing completely, transforming into a new civilization and a new awareness about this. And I think it can happen, but we need to articulate it and sort of show that vision, that path forward.

• 3:18:23Speaker 00

  And it isn't going to happen by just continuously stirring up hatred. See, one of the, the alien hatred thing, you know what I think it is? It's an exploitation of the original sin of humans. And that's tribalism. So if you look at chimpanzees, we're 98% identical. They organize into troops and engage in war. We have that proclivity. That's where racism, homophobia, misogyny, ethnicity, all the, everything we fight over, it's, it's, it's demagogues being able to trigger that impulse. Now, the big one to trigger would be human versus non-human, right?

• 3:19:04Speaker 00

  You pull the whole world together as demagogues and people wanting power against another intelligent life form.

• 3:19:13Jesse Michels?

  Is that what Reagan was referring to in his speech when he said?

• 3:19:16Speaker 00

  Yes, because he had been gaslit. I knew the people who did it.

• 3:19:19Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 3:19:20Speaker 00

  General Homan, no, I'm sorry, Colonel Homan, before he died. He was the one who sold SDI Star Wars to Reagan.

• 3:19:29Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 3:19:30Speaker 00

  And he told me before he died, he said, he was a full bird colonel. He had been on that committee selling Star Wars to, first tried to sell it to Carter, and Carter was too smart, didn't buy it. Then he told Reagan, so he said, we had Soviet Union, these other threats, da-da-da-da-da. And where he really got him is that he convinced him of the alien threat. Now, he told me, he said, we knew that was false.

• 3:19:59Speaker 00

  But it got billions of dollars for SDI. So here's the other risk with President Trump. Is that he could be shown a lot of false evidence. For example, you go in with a portfolio of gruesome vivisections and mutilations and abductions and other scary things, all done by psyops from CIA and other cutouts.

• 3:20:22Jesse Michels?

  But aren't some of these pre our ability to even, like, my buddy Chris Ramsey, who runs a great channel called Area 52, he's an admirer of your work and consumed it for a while, but he always points to these, he said, there's like in 1904, there's like this Chilean cattle mutilation series, and it's like, we didn't have the ability to do this back then, did we? In 1904?

• 3:20:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, but see, I don't know what the evidence.

• 3:20:46Jesse Michels?

  Pretty my lab, you know?

• 3:20:47Speaker 00

  Who knows what that was back then and what technologies were used? If you have those capabilities, what are you using it for? I mean, obviously, if they wanted to overtake the Earth and humanity, they could have done it before we had the technologies we had by the time we detonated the first atomic bomb.

• 3:21:07Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 3:21:08Speaker 00

  Okay, so there's no internal logic to that thesis, is what I'm saying.

• 3:21:14Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:21:15Speaker 00

  Now, there is a lot of reason to believe maybe there have been other civilizations that have done things where they're monitoring our evolution. Because they know in the future, we could be friend or foe, or we could go one way or another. And so some of this I liken to imagine if you're, well, here's a good analogy, imagine you're me as an emergency doctor.

• 3:21:40Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 3:21:41Speaker 00

  Someone comes in, he's a two-year-old child with the symptoms of meningitis, right? Which can be fatal, all right? So I have to do a spinal tap, and I have a needle this long, you know? So to the child, I'm a monster who's having my nurses hold the child down in the fetal position to go in and get the cerebral spinal fluid off from around the spine to test it to see if there's bacterial or infection.

• 3:22:12Speaker 00

  But to the child, I'm torturing that child. I'm trying to save its life. I'm there with the best of intentions, doing everything I can to be sure this child doesn't die of meningitis or have brain damage and hearing loss. So I think we have to also be careful in taking just an empirical observation, let's say, in an ephemeral, superficial way, and ascribing motive to it. Right? Because, think of how many things I've had to do as a doctor.

• 3:22:44Jesse Michels?

  Doesn't that flip the other way too, though? Like, how can we know they're positive? You know what I mean?

• 3:22:50Speaker 00

  Because, as I said, the Colonel in charge of the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base Operations for this, Colonel Canola, when he said to me that, he said, I went from the Rockefeller Ranch to there.

• 3:23:03Jesse Michels?

  Wow. He was head of the Foreign Technology?

• 3:23:06Speaker 00

  FTD. Well, at that time it was called FASTIC, the Foreign Aerospace Science and Technology Center. They keep changing the name of it.

• 3:23:12Jesse Michels?

  So you spoke to him directly?

• 3:23:13Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. That meeting was ordered by the head of Intelligence Joint Staff, not Kramer, but another one, not Tom Wilson, but Admiral Kramer ordered that meeting.

• 3:23:25Jesse Michels?

  You've met with all these fascinating people. I don't know, like, you know, I'm a fan of Joe Rogan, but I don't see how anybody can just write you off. Like, you really like...

• 3:23:33Speaker 00

  No, I mean, it's threats and money. Look, I don't know. I mean, you ask Joe, he's a neighbor of yours, you know, fine. I'm happy to go on his show anytime. I have no grudge against him, I just know that I'm blacklisted off of it.

• 3:23:47Jesse Michels?

  That's weird.

• 3:23:48Speaker 00

  Well, who cares? I mean, you know, I mean, I can reach a lot of people other ways, but...

• 3:23:53Jesse Michels?

  So what was your conversation like with the...

• 3:23:55Speaker 00

  Well, you know, he thought I was coming there to see what he had. So I said, and I had my military advisor there, and a guy who was a former State Department, actually CIA guy there. And this meeting had been ordered from way above his pay grade. Now, the head of Air Force Intelligence didn't want to do it, but the head of Intelligence, the whole Joint Staff, ordered it. I can talk about this now. So it happened. And the conversation kinda went like this. He went, "Well, you know, I really..." I said, "Look, I'm not here to see what you have here. I already know what you have here. I have people who've worked in your facility." Now, this is September of 93.

• 3:24:40Speaker 00

  So I said, "I don't need to see that. I know what you have. I'm here to let you know that we have an operation. CE5 contact, close encounters of it. And we wanna de-conflict what we're doing with anything you and your colleagues are doing so that you don't interfere with us and we don't interfere with you." A lot of people don't know this. That was 93. Early, early on.

• 3:25:03Jesse Michels?

  So you kinda came to them in peace. You weren't like...

• 3:25:05Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:25:05Jesse Michels?

  Let this all out.

• 3:25:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I also said, "The Clinton administration is keen..." He'd just taken office in January, this is September, "And this may come here. So you need to be prepared to cooperate."

• 3:25:17Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 3:25:18Speaker 00

  And then he said at one point, "Well, what makes you think that these civilizations aren't a threat?" You know, the whole party line. I mean, he was a colonel. He'd brainwashed like everybody else. And I go, "Well, we're having this conversation, aren't we? We're breathing the free air of Earth. And the fact that we're still breathing the free air of Earth, given the galactically stupid things we've been doing, targeting and downing their own craft and killing their own people. If they were hostile like you think, we'd be done."

• 3:25:53Jesse Michels?

  Right.

• 3:25:54Speaker 00

  And he just looked at me. So I said, "The proof that they're not is that you and I are still breathing Earth's air."

• 3:26:00Jesse Michels?

  What if they're impervious? What if it's like these biological drones where they're like, you know, this is sort of like disposable stuff?

• 3:26:09Speaker 00

  Well, some of them are.

• 3:26:09Jesse Michels?

  Like little von Neumann replicators to like, you know...

• 3:26:12Speaker 00

  Some are. Some are organic indigenous ET. Some are kind of robotic. They have integrated circuits in their cerebral cortex. But we have man-made grays and man-made looking ones that have that. Because we've studied them.

• 3:26:28Jesse Michels?

  Do you believe in different alien races? The grays, the nordeks, the reptilians, things like that?

• 3:26:33Speaker 00

  Well, no. All those names are just racist appellations. I mean, remember, I was telling you before...

• 3:26:38Jesse Michels?

  So it's all one?

• 3:26:39Speaker 00

  The foundation of all of ufology is...

• 3:26:43Speaker 00

  Let's say call it interspecies racism. That's the fact, everything that you're mouthing, they've just been able to trigger the innate racism within everybody. Everyone's, we're all monkeys, we all have this sort of monkey mind.

• 3:26:57Jesse Michels?

  But are there ones that look different?

• 3:26:59Speaker 00

  Oh god, yeah, there are dozens and dozens of them.

• 3:27:01Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 3:27:02Speaker 00

  I know that Clifford Stone said in the sixties-

• 3:27:04Jesse Michels?

  And they're all good, all of the groups?

• 3:27:06Speaker 00

  There's no indication any of them are hostile.

• 3:27:08Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 3:27:09Speaker 00

  There's indications that some of them are extremely unhappy-

• 3:27:12Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 3:27:12Speaker 00

  With what we're doing to the planet and what we're doing to them. So, but there is a universal right to self-defense.

• 3:27:21Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:27:21Speaker 00

  Number one. Number two, let's say your species been monitoring this planet for thousands or hundreds of thousands of years.

• 3:27:32Speaker 00

  In a hundred-year period, we go from horse and buggies to thermonuclear weapons. We go from a pristine environment that was an agricultural civilizations to a, an industrial civilization that suppresses the natural evolutionary breakthrough in electromagnetism to have free energy and we're destroying the biosphere. We're killing the oceans. We have thousands of species, of plants and animals going extinct. And so if the earth had been somehow bioformed or assisted in its evolution, they would be less than amused. Not with humans per se, but with the captains of human civilization. So, they would be right in saying that we're mad.

• 3:28:18Speaker 00

  You know, it's like as an emergency doctor, you can commit someone if they're a danger to themselves or other mentally ill, or substance abuser. I believe that these, some of these civilizations view us as collectively insane. That humans, given what we're doing to the planet and to each other, and now to them, are sort of mad. Like, what the heck's going on? So I encourage people to step out of the anthropocentric, you know, self-centered view and begin to look at the world and what we're doing through the eyes of a non-human intelligent species who would rightly be appalled at what we've been doing to the earth and to each other.

• 3:29:02Speaker 00

  Endless world wars, the earth's biosphere, the oceans dying, the coral reefs dying.

• 3:29:09Speaker 00

  Unnecessarily, because we've suppressed the genius breakthroughs of Nikola Tesla and others in energy generation. So that a handful of uber oligarchs and control freaks can benefit from that system. Right? In the whole planet, only 0.83% of the population has any involvement with energy generation at any level, green or otherwise. And for that, we're sending the planet over a cliff.

• 3:29:42Jesse Michels?

  Have we made agreements with the aliens? Like, there's this rumor in 1954 that Eisenhower was, I think, in, like, Palm Desert in California, or where was it? Palm Springs?

• 3:29:53Speaker 00

  I think it was 56.

• 3:29:54Jesse Michels?

  56?

• 3:29:55Speaker 00

  I might have.

• 3:29:56Jesse Michels?

  I thought it was 54, maybe 56.

• 3:29:57Speaker 00

  Murdock. It was in Murdock.

• 3:29:59Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. And he says, you know, it was under the cover of a dental exam, but he might have actually made an agreement with some alien faction.

• 3:30:07Speaker 00

  It wasn't an agreement, it was a meeting.

• 3:30:08Jesse Michels?

  It was a meeting?

• 3:30:09Speaker 00

  And the ETs wanted us to stop the nuclear holocaust potential. And we were to then do so.

• 3:30:18Jesse Michels?

  Do you believe this? Do you think this happened?

• 3:30:20Speaker 00

  Well, I got a, I got a series of reports from the French Ministry of Defense indicating that meeting did happen, but it wasn't the mythology you're referring to. And it was really an attempt by the ETs before we went full-on dangerous proliferation of tens of thousands of thermonuclear weapons to try to change that direction. And Eisenhower was inclined to do so. This cabal of war-mongering sociopaths like Allen Dulles and Paul Mellon said, "No, we're not." And they're the ones who then cut the president out of the loop. This is why, one of our whistleblowers was a young army guy at the White House under

• 3:31:01Speaker 00

  Eisenhower in the Signal Corps, I think 5960, named Stephen Lovkin. You can read his testimony in our material. And he said that Eisenhower would doodle pictures of these, you know, ET craft, and he was fascinated. And he brought the issue up to Eisenhower and said, Eisenhower said, "Well, I don't have control of this anymore." So I think that because Eisenhower, he knew the dangers of endless war. He had been a five-star general in World War II. And he wanted peace. I think he wanted a golden age. And I think about the time, I was born in 55. I think this happened in, could have been 54 or 56. But around that time, this could have all gone another way. You see?

• 3:31:46Speaker 00

  So what a waste. And so instead, he got pushed aside. That group of sociopaths and control freaks then took over those operations. And those have been illegal operations ever since. And so the president, I think Eisenhower, what I understand, died a very bitter man about this. He never spoke of this in particular. But he also knew that there was an organization that had moved him to the side. Jack Kennedy said the same thing to Bill Holden, his, the chief steward on Air Force One. But I have many data points for this. And so, you know, my concern is, you know, how long can that continue with an unchecked

• 3:32:31Speaker 00

  group with that kind of power? I don't think it can go on much longer because their technological prowess has reached a point that it's not only a threat to Earth, it's a threat out there. And so I think we have to resolve it. My recommendation is to resolve it peacefully.

• 3:32:47Jesse Michels?

  Well, let's see what happens, Dr. Greer. I mean, we have, we're kind of on the verge of like this deep politics civil war right now. It feels like with USAID and Elon and Trump on one side and kind of bureaucracy on the other side, they're really clashing. And so it's an interesting time. And I hope that all of the political capital spent on all the other disclosures do not cut against UFOs. And in fact, they cascade into UFOs, so.

• 3:33:15Speaker 00

  Here's what I think. I think all of that's a sideshow and a waste of time. Here's what I think. You know, there, it's fiddling while Rome burns. So all those other things, I'm not saying they're, there's all manner of corruption and waste and fraud, but the big one?

• 3:33:36Speaker 00

  It's this stuff.

• 3:33:37Jesse Michels?

  UFOs?

• 3:33:38Speaker 00

  It's the, now, this is, this is where eight to twelve trillion minimum is gone.

• 3:33:43Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:33:43Speaker 00

  And it's still going.

• 3:33:45Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:33:46Speaker 00

  And so the question is, you want to get serious about this? Same thing with the criminal, criminalizing, uh, illegally using the criminal justice system against people. You know, and also letting people get away literally with murder and abductions and kidnapping. One of our whistleblowers, whose, whose case is in here, who we don't name, he's by a initial. He was on a crash retrieval team in the northern Nevada desert, way north. Used to be called the Nevada Test Range. And about, I think it was two thousand nine, somewhere around there, he was on a team retrieving these objects. And it's a very long story, but cut a long story short.

• 3:34:32Speaker 00

  Uh, when he reached out to us, I was going to bring him to Senate Intelligence and Armed Services and then over to Arrow. And we were getting, in the process of actually getting his ticket.

• 3:34:42Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:34:43Speaker 00

  So those of you who kvetch about the fact you have to pay money for this book like you do a latte at Starbucks.

• 3:34:49Speaker 00

  I don't, I'm, I'm retired and I don't, I don't get money from all this. It's paying for whistleblowers to go to DC and provide security and all that. So, you know, all these, the naysayers and say, why is there a tuition? I said, well, how do you put on something? If it costs two hundred thousand dollars to rent a facility to put on an event, who's paying for that? Me? Out of my, I'm a doctor, not a tech billionaire. Anyway, you know, but, so, we're getting his ticket, we're bringing him to DC. A van pulls up, SUV out in front of his house, his wife's at work.

• 3:35:26Speaker 00

  And they have two young kids, boys. And they, they say, look at your phone and your computer. And they had embedded child pornography all over it.

• 3:35:36Jesse Michels?

  No way.

• 3:35:37Speaker 00

  Yep, happens all the time. They said, you take one more step towards this. You're going to spend the rest of your life in prison and never see your children. So I have said this to people in law enforcement. I said, why should someone who's a hero of the country be afraid for his life and afraid of false imprisonment and entrapment? Where is our justice systems? Where is the Department of Miss Bondi? Where, Cash Patel, where is federal law enforcement? When you have this kind of thuggery, but we've had this thuggery used against

• 3:36:13Speaker 00

  even folks like the senior investigators for Senate Intelligence Committee. So at what point does someone grow a pair and stand up to the Goliath? Now granted, it is a Goliath. And they have enormous power and enormous technology and they're very corrupt. And they're ruthless. They will kill their own. But I don't think that that is any excuse for putting your tail between your legs and running away like a coward.

• 3:36:43Jesse Michels?

  Maybe Elon's engaging in some sort of encirclement strategy where you go for the less important stuff first and then you.

• 3:36:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, maybe. I mean, look, you know, I don't know. I mean, again, I don't know Mr. Musk and I wish him well. And what I do know is that there are very senior people around the president who are taking this seriously, which is a good thing.

• 3:37:03Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:37:04Speaker 00

  And there are some wonderful people in there, like RFK Junior's son's wife.

• 3:37:13Jesse Michels?

  Amberilis Fox.

• 3:37:14Speaker 00

  Amberilis Fox Kennedy is a friend of mine and she's gonna, she's on the White House Intelligence Advisory Group now. And I will also work closely with Tulsi Gabbard, who's the DNI.

• 3:37:27Jesse Michels?

  I've met Tulsi before and I think she's great. And then I heard, I've heard great things about Amberilis Fox.

• 3:37:33Speaker 00

  Oh, she's one, she's, Amberilis is wonderful. She's very smart. She understands everything we've been talking about. And I think RFK Junior does too, in my conversations there, but not at a granular level, not at a, you know. But I think there are people in place who I think can help guide. The administration to what the facts are and what the truth is. But more importantly, we need to get past this thing of just endlessly yakking and investigating the issue.

• 3:38:02Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:38:03Speaker 00

  We need to action.

• 3:38:04Jesse Michels?

  No, I'm with that.

• 3:38:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, we have to, at some point, the federal government of the United States and others are gonna need to take action to get those operations under control, stand down the malignant ones that are targeting ET craft and victimizing other humans with abductions, mutilations, threats. And then we also need to have somebody with enough vision to say, wow, well, if we're not alone in the universe, maybe we should reach out. I mean, Mr. Trump reached out to Putin and Zelensky, maybe we need to learn to reach out to out there. So let's reach out to these civilizations and begin a rocheproschmal and a dialogue. That's the whole concept. The reason I started this whole project was for that reason.

• 3:38:50Jesse Michels?

  Well, I'm that beautiful.

• 3:38:52Speaker 00

  And I got diverted into these other things. But that's the real purpose is let's go forward in a, in a world where we're at peace.

• 3:38:59Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:38:59Speaker 00

  And we're in peace in space. We've transformed our whole civilization into a new high-tech society and poverty vanishes within a generation. I mean, you'll live to see it, you will, my children will, and let's have a new world.

• 3:39:15Jesse Michels?

  That's a beautiful note to end on. Let's move forth into a utopia, not hit the great filter, let out all this suppressed technology.

• 3:39:25Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 3:39:25Jesse Michels?

  And commune with the extraterrestrials. Thank you so much for your time, Dr. Greer.

• 3:39:29Speaker 00

  Yep, thank you.

• 3:39:30Jesse Michels?

  I really appreciate it. This is an honor.

• 3:39:31Speaker 00

  Thank you.