Pod Insights All There Is with Anderson Cooper Isaiah Thomas: The Loneliness of Grief About this episode Isaiah Thomas's youngest sister, Chyna, was killed in a car crash the night before he played in the 2017 NBA playoffs. In 2024, his oldest sister LaQuisha died as well. Isaiah tells Anderson Cooper he is "still struggling," but he also shares powerful insights he has learned about grief as tries to "go forward, without moving on." For more of “All There Is with Anderson Cooper” visit cnn.com/allthereis.
Host: Anderson Cooper Showrunner: Haley Thomas Producers: Grace Walker, Emily Williams, Madeleine Thompson, Kyra Dahring Video Editor: Eric Zembrzuski Technical Director: Dan Dzula Bookers: Kerry Rubin and Kari Pricher
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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1:01 Anderson Cooper? Welcome to All There Is. Wherever you are in your grief, you're not alone. I was talking with a friend of mine who doesn't listen to this podcast, and he's experienced a number of losses in his life, but he really doesn't want to think much about them, which I certainly understand. He asked me, "Isn't it depressing to do all these interviews all the time?" And I thought about it for a moment, and then I told him the truth, which is, it's not. It's sad often, it's emotional, but these are the most real conversations that I have with people. It's one human being connecting with and learning from another about a fundamental experience that we all share. My friend didn't really want to hear more about it, but I was kind of on a roll, so I kept going.
1:43 Anderson Cooper? But what is depressing to me, I said, what's depressed me much of my life is not having these conversations, except with myself in my head, the loneliness of that. That, to me, is what is depressing. I really love the conversation that you're about to hear. It's with Isaiah Thomas. He's a two-time NBA All-Star, and the fact that he's five foot nine inches makes that even more impressive. But what so impressed me about him is his willingness to speak about loss and his vulnerability. Two of Isaiah's three sisters have died. His sister Laquisha died in 2024, and his youngest sister, Chyna, died in 2017 on the eve of the NBA playoffs. She was killed in a car crash in Washington State. She was about to turn 23.
2:27 Anderson Cooper? The day after China died, Isaiah played in Game One of the Eastern Conference semifinals against the Chicago Bulls. He played with China's name written on his shoes, and in 38 minutes, he scored 33 points. A few weeks later, on what would have been China's 23rd birthday, Isaiah scored a career-high 53 points in an overtime victory against the Washington Wizards. I spoke to Isaiah Thomas May 1st, the day before what would have been China's 32nd birthday.
2:56 Anderson Cooper? Can you tell me about China? What was she like?
2:59 Speaker 02 China was, man, we were connected like this. Like, anytime I had to go to the gym, anytime I had basketball tournaments, even if she didn't want to, like, she was the tag along. She was everywhere I was, always super positive and super energetic, outspoken, outgoing, and just loving. Tomorrow's her birthday, actually. She would be 32.
3:21 Anderson Cooper? So she had been to, like, every game?
3:23 Speaker 02 Everything. Growing up, middle school, high school, college, anytime I could look in the stands, she's right there with my dad. So, like, truly my biggest fan in life.
3:35 Anderson Cooper? There's a great video of China, and if it's okay, do you mind if we film?
3:39 Speaker 02 Yes.
3:40 Speaker 03 How you feeling, sis? Good?
3:44 Speaker 04 I'm good.
3:46 Speaker 02 Yeah, IT's apartment, man. Wait for this draft to start. We got about 15 minutes.
3:50 Speaker 05 I know when Tina nervous.
3:53 Speaker 02 I've been walking around.
3:54 Speaker 05 I'm just excited.
3:56 Speaker 04 Oh, I love him. That's my big brother. So, I mean, I, I, I can, I don't know. Words can't really express all what I can say to him. Me and Isaiah are like this, like dreams are turning into reality, basically. So it's just,
4:11 Speaker 04 showtime.
4:12 Anderson Cooper? That was a party for the draft. So the whole family is gathered. You were picked, um, you were picked the last pick. I mean, what a cliffhanger.
4:22 Speaker 02 I remember my mom calling me around like the 56th pick, 57th pick. She's like, "Son, are you all right?" And I'm like, "I'm as good as I'm gonna be. Like, I, I don't know what's going on." She said a Bible scripture. She said, "The first shall be last and the last shall be first." Around like the 58th pick, my agent called me back, was like, "Sacramento Kings are gonna pick you with the last pick." And all my negative emotions went out the window. Cause at the end of the day, as a kid growing up, my dream was to hear my name called. Whether it was the first pick or the last pick, it didn't really matter. I was blessed and I was super thankful. I'm drafted in 2011. I played for the Kings, Phoenix Suns. Then I get traded in 2015 to Boston.
5:03 Anderson Cooper? When you got to the Celtics, it was a team that was kind of rebuilding.
5:07 Speaker 02 Yes.
5:08 Anderson Cooper? But you really set the tone.
5:10 Speaker 02 Yeah, I just tried to change the culture. They needed a player like me and I needed an organization like them to give me the opportunity to showcase my skills. And we turned that whole season around in 2017.
5:21 Anderson Cooper? What happened to China?
5:23 Speaker 02 We're preparing to play the Chicago Bulls in the first round of the playoffs. A day before the playoffs start, um, my, my little sister gets in a single car crash, fell asleep at the wheel, really late at night driving. I didn't know about it to the next morning. We just get out of practice. I'm going through my regular routine and one of my close friends, Avery Bradley, on the Celtics, we're actually from the same neighborhood. And he knows China. He knows my family. So he, man was like, "IT, come here. I got something to tell you. It's important." And when we went back in the locker room, he was like, "Bro, your, your, your sister passed away." I'm like, "What are you talking about?"
6:02 Speaker 02 So I go to my phone and I see calls from
6:07 Speaker 02 My dad, my mom, my wife. So I called my dad back and he just breaks it to me. And he couldn't really talk at the time either. I've only seen my dad cry like three or four times in my life. But I've never seen my dad be that emotional. So I didn't know what to do. I couldn't go to him, he couldn't go to me. I couldn't go to anybody. It was unbelievable, the news I heard. Like, I'm preparing to play the Chicago Bulls. We're the number one seed. The best year of my career and the worst year of my life, like, at the same time.
6:44 Anderson Cooper? Had you had any experience with loss?
6:46 Speaker 02 My auntie passed away, like, older people in my family, my grandparents, great-grandparents, but not like my sister and my youngest sister at that. Like, I would, I would never think that would happen. She just was reaching out to me about coming out to the playoffs. She's like, you know, my birthday's coming up. It's my Jordan year, because she would have been 23. So all of those things are like going through my head. I remember just leaving my stuff in the locker room and getting in the car and just crying for like 30 minutes straight. My coach comes outside, security comes outside. Then, you know, the people just trying to help. But like, there was nothing you can possibly do. It was like the most numb moments I've ever had.
7:29 Speaker 02 I wanted to go be with my family to try to help them out. But I remember talking to my dad that night and he's like, "You know what your sister would want you to do. She would want you to play. And you, you coming home isn't gonna do anything right now." So many people were texting and reaching out to me. Kobe Bryant sent me a long text. Condolences, "I'm sorry to hear the news." But at the end of the text, he said, "If you are gonna play, there's no excuses. And you're gonna be who you always been." Kobe Bryant's my favorite player ever. So to see him reach out to me and, and say, "If you are gonna play,
8:14 Speaker 02 you go out there and be who you are, because that's what your sister would want." There was no other way around it. That's what I was doing.
8:25 Speaker 02 So then the next day, I just showed up at the arena like a normal day. Because anything I've ever been through in life, basketball's always been the space where it takes everything away. For two, three hours, I don't think about anything other than the game and it puts me in a great space. That's the only thing I knew. So I went to arena, prepared like I usually do. My body was there, my mind wasn't. And it was the hardest thing I ever had to do. Like, I remember being in warmups and just starting to cry, because it was like, it just didn't seem real.
9:01 Anderson Cooper? There's a video, Avery Bradley comes over and puts his arm around you because you're crying. It was just a beautiful moment. It was just like such a human thing that he did.
9:13 Speaker 02 That was one of the moments where I just couldn't hold it in. I was just like, how did this happen? Just having someone there at that moment was like the smallest thing and it was everything. He was the one that told me the day before. And you know how hard that is? His mom had passed away a year before that.
9:30 Anderson Cooper? So he knew?
9:31 Speaker 02 He knew. He knew exactly the emotions I was going through.
9:37 Anderson Cooper? It wasn't like he was trying to fix it or stop it. It was just...
9:41 Speaker 02 He was just there when everybody else was scared to, you know, be around me. And it wasn't even their fault.
9:47 Anderson Cooper? People don't know...
9:48 Speaker 02 You don't know what to say. You don't know anything. For him to really be there for me at that time, that was everything. So I, I'm super thankful for him. Then all my teammates. So I played through that game. We end up losing. Right when the game got over and I was leaving the arena, it just hit me again. Real life just hit me.
10:12 Anderson Cooper? It doesn't go away.
10:13 Speaker 02 And it doesn't. Every time I would go to practice, every time I would play in a game, I would be okay. And then right when the game's over, I had no energy to speak to anybody. It was like the opposite of who I was, because I was the life of the locker room. I was the energy on the team. It was killing me seeing my teammates walk on eggshells because they didn't know how to react. So I had to fake it. Like I had to... Somehow put a smile on for my teammates. Because it was bigger than me at that point. Like, I was hurting my teammates. It was the hardest thing I ever had to navigate through while playing against the best players in the world and trying to win a championship.
10:52 Anderson Cooper? When you played, you wrote China's name on your shoe.
10:55 Speaker 02 Mm-hmm.
10:56 Anderson Cooper? You wrote RIP Lil Sis and the date of her death.
10:59 Speaker 02 The only reason why I was playing was for her. Like, the only reason, and it takes me back to just the YMCA, being at the community center. Anytime I'm lacing my shoes up, and she right there. So that's the reason why I wrote those things on my shoes. She would always text me. She said, "Showtime." Her and my dad would always text me that before a game, since I was in high school. And it was showtime. It was just a different time with her not being there.
11:27 Anderson Cooper? You scored 33 points in 38 minutes in that game. You almost won. I mean, you brought the team back.
11:34 Speaker 02 Yeah, I played pretty well, but everybody was numb. The whole organization was going through what I was going through.
11:41 Anderson Cooper? A reporter asked you a question in the locker room. I just want to play what you said.
11:46 Speaker 06 I'm sure Celtics fans would like to know just how you're doing. How are you doing?
11:52 Speaker 02 Uh, man, I'm just taking it day by day. I'm not... Some days are better than others, but I'm... I'm not here, man. Like, it's never gonna be the same, so...
12:06 Anderson Cooper? "I'm not here." I so understand that. I've felt that a lot in my life. Like, I'm not even here. Like, I'm... Like, I'm half a person. When I heard that, I was like, "I get that."
12:19 Speaker 02 I was just being completely honest. It was like, "There's no way I'm here. Like, I'm not present." That's really how I feel.
12:29 Anderson Cooper? Do you feel like you're here now? Not here here, but you, in general?
12:33 Speaker 02 I feel like I'm getting better with things, but fast forward, my older sister, Laquisha, passed away a year and a half ago. Like, the same thing. Like, the same exact feeling. So like, protect...
12:45 Anderson Cooper? It took you right back to that.
12:46 Speaker 02 It took me right back. It took me right back. I got one more sister left, and I pray to God nothing happens to her, because I'm just not trying to do things on my own. And that's probably the hardest part, is just being lonely.
13:03 Anderson Cooper? We'll be right back with more of my conversation with Isaiah Thomas.
13:09 Speaker 00 Every day, animals across the country face abuse and neglect. And every day, the ASPCA shows up to rescue animals in crisis. But they can't do it alone. Visit aspc.org/need. Become a donor today to provide the care and shelter these animals urgently need. And for a limited time, the ASPCA will send you a free gift as a special thank you. Visit aspc.org/need.
13:39 Speaker 07 I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, host of the Chasing Life podcast. We're going to talk about rethinking how we die. How we think about death in the first place greatly informs how we live. Our guest is Dr. B.J. Miller. He's a hospice and palliative care physician.
13:57 Speaker 06 We are aging as a people. This is a worldwide phenomenon that we are aging and therefore getting closer to the end of life on some level as a group. It's not at all surprising that you'll see a revving up of interest, services, and also sort of anxiety that pushes us away from the subject and makes us cling to life.
14:18 Speaker 07 Listen to Chasing Life, streaming now, wherever you get your podcasts.
14:25 Anderson Cooper? You went back to Seattle to speak at your sister's funeral. And then you flew back to Boston. Four hours later, you're playing the second round of the playoffs.
14:34 Speaker 02 I get in at like eight.
14:37 Speaker 02 I go home, change, and go straight to the arena. Game one, my tooth comes out. Like out of all times in my life, I've been hitting my mouth, I've been hitting my tooth, I've been hit, and it's never came out.
14:50 Anderson Cooper? It was literally laying on the floor. You picked it up.
14:53 Speaker 02 I pick it up and I go take it to the trainer. We end up winning game one. I have a pretty good game. In between game one and two, I have 13 hours of dental surgery. Game two is on my sister's birthday, May 2nd. Every shot I made, every shot was going in. And the magnitude of the game, it was a close game. We went into overtime. There was one shot where a guy fouled me and I lost the ball and I still threw it in and it went in and I'm like.
15:21 Speaker 02 I look up like this is insane. Then I've had a 50-point game before in the NBA. I've had games where it's like dang, those shots are going in.
15:29 Anderson Cooper? I've seen videos of it, like every shot, like you're taking crazy shots.
15:33 Speaker 02 It was just going in and I knew it, like I'm like, that's her. I felt her, she was at that game.
15:40 Speaker 02 Me to score 53 points on her birthday in a moment where the world was watching. I didn't hear my coach, I didn't hear my teammates.
15:49 Anderson Cooper? Because obviously the crowd is going crazy.
15:51 Speaker 02 Crazy. It was silent. I didn't hear the fans, I didn't hear nothing. There was no emotion, I had no emotion in that game. I wasn't there. I was in the gym by myself at the YMCA, Community Center, growing up, and she's right there. That was all God and all my sister. That was for her.
16:13 Anderson Cooper? You were asked about it after the game.
16:17 Speaker 02 Where is this coming from, man? Where is this coming from? It's my sister. It's her birthday today. Happy birthday, she would have been 23 today. So, everything I do is for her, and she's watching over me, so that's all her.
16:34 Anderson Cooper? Do you remember that?
16:37 Speaker 02 Yeah.
16:39 Speaker 02 I remember that, I remember every moment, right when I walk out the arena, it slaps you in the face. All that cool stuff. Winning a playoff game. Scoring a career high. That was one of the most amazing moments, but you don't understand what really matters until it really matters. That was one of the moments that basketball just didn't matter.
17:03 Anderson Cooper? Your dad talked about how he didn't know how you played those games. I just want to play what he said.
17:09 Speaker 02 Yeah.
17:12 Speaker 02 I don't know how you played, because I couldn't do anything.
17:20 Speaker 02 I watched some games, and then I couldn't watch no more.
17:26 Speaker 02 It made it worse for me.
17:32 Speaker 02 Whatever basketball had to do, we made it a family thing to go and watch him, but also make it fun for the family.
17:42 Speaker 02 And now China was missing.
17:46 Speaker 02 It's different.
17:50 Speaker 02 The only thing you think is, where would she be?
17:59 Speaker 02 When you got kids, you just want your kids around. When you lose one, it feels like the world is upside down.
18:11 Speaker 02 I wasn't, I wasn't built for that.
18:16 Speaker 02 Sometimes people think you're strong and you become the weakest thing around. It just wasn't right.
18:26 Anderson Cooper? I never cried until like five years ago. I buried all that stuff. I just moved forward and all that stuff catches up with you. If you don't talk about it, if you don't express it, if you don't turn to it in some way.
18:43 Speaker 02 And I, I understand that fully because when that happened, I didn't know what mental health was at that time. I didn't know what depression was. Where I'm from, like especially males don't really speak about those things. And that's what I seen. So I thought that was normal. I was a hundred percent depressed and I didn't even know it. And I just thought trying to figure it out on my own was, was gonna help. But when I was able to really start to open up and speak to people about these things that everybody goes through, man, I started to see the light at the end of the tunnel in terms of just learning how to live with it. And I still have my days where I'm super emotional. Like the other day, it was my mom's birthday, her sixtieth birthday, and she just wished my older sister
19:28 Speaker 02 was here. And I, that just hurts because.
19:34 Speaker 02 I'm usually the guy that can help and I can't help. And she has her emotions. I have mine. It just sucks, but but knowing you can go through it with somebody else, whether it's a stranger or family, it helps. Like you said, you were you were moving forward so much,
19:54 Speaker 02 just trying to move past it and I felt like I was doing that too. And when life started to settle me down and I started to slow my mind down to able to like reach out to other people who've been through these things. Man, it helped in so many ways. Obviously, it didn't bring them back, but
20:12 Speaker 02 it's it's made things a little smoother when times are really tough. Being able to speak about it and trying to help my parents go to grief counseling.
20:24 Anderson Cooper? Do they speak about it?
20:26 Speaker 02 My dad speaks to me about it, but he's not speaking to anybody else about it yet. My mom does go to grief counseling. It's something that helps her and I think it can help everybody. I try to go at least like once a month. After I I just feel way better like it just. It helps to open up. I just always kept it in because that's just what I always done. So I just try something different.
20:50 Anderson Cooper? The first time you went to talk to somebody, was that hard?
20:52 Speaker 02 The hardest thing ever, like talk to somebody you don't trust or don't know. But it it just made me every time after it just made me smile. It just made me.
21:03 Speaker 02 It made me feel different. I started making a routine of trying to speak to somebody once a month. Try to learn something off of social media that others are going through. If you're not able to speak about it to others, you're not going to find ways to live through it. Like not even get through it, just to live through it.
21:22 Anderson Cooper? Does it get better?
21:24 Speaker 02 I think you learn to navigate through it. It doesn't get bad. I want to talk to my sister every day. I want to argue with my older sister. Like, I want to like, I want to have a back and forth with her. I want to tell my younger sister to slow down. I want to be able to laugh with them. I always say to my mom, "I wish you can get one phone call a year." And just hear my sister's voice. Just to just ask them, "Is everything good?" If they can tell me that, that would make things so much easier. My younger sister didn't even get to meet my daughter. And my daughter is my younger sister.
22:00 Anderson Cooper? Really?
22:01 Speaker 02 Everything about her.
22:02 Anderson Cooper? Wow. You see her?
22:04 Speaker 02 My daughter, everything.
22:08 Speaker 02 Everything. My dad says it all the time.
22:10 Anderson Cooper? Really?
22:11 Speaker 02 That's China. Because it really is. Every way she acts is like identical. It's cool because I can see her in my daughter. That's something God did to keep her close to me.
22:26 Anderson Cooper? It's incredible to see. I have two little boys, four and six, and I see my dad in their eyes. And all the stuff that happened to you as a little kid that you bury, it's an opportunity to kind of figure that out and be better for them. My little one has the shape of my mom's face and it's crazy. Like, I see it. It's so...
22:51 Speaker 02 That connection is insane, but it's real. And it helps me. Like, even just looking in my daughter's eyes, it's like, I know that smirk. I know that look. I know what you're getting into because I seen it. I seen it. And my little sister, so like, with my older sister, when it's a nice day, I feel like that's her. When I see a yellow butterfly, that's my younger sister because when she passed for like four straight months, every day I would see a yellow butterfly. And I just felt like that was her. So those are like little signs, I feel like.
23:28 Speaker 02 But I haven't hit the stage yet where I feel like I'm speaking to somebody. I haven't had that connection yet, but I believe that will happen. I have a lot of faith in that. My mom had one, like a sign where she said, she felt like my older sister, Quisha, said she's okay. And like I could see my mom smiling more and like wanting to go out and do things more. And I want that for my dad. I want that for myself.
23:55 Anderson Cooper? I don't feel like I get signs from my dad, but I remember what it was like to be the little boy that I was, like laying on his stomach, watching TV. Like I remember that feeling and I remember the love I had for my dad and I feel that again.
24:08 Speaker 02 Yeah, and I, and I go back at times too with my sisters. Just all the moments we shared, like there'd be certain songs that come on the radio. It's like, that's something me and my little sister would dance to or, or figure something out.
24:22 Anderson Cooper? Is there a song in particular?
24:26 Speaker 02 It's a gospel song by Donnie McClurkin called We Fall Down. And it's a song that on Sunday mornings, we would just have like a whole church concert in the living room, which is me and her. And she would be the singer, I'd be in the background. So like anytime gospel music comes on, I think of her. And then with my older sister, it's like she was my protector. So anytime I get into something, no matter if I'm right or wrong, she was, she's riding, she's riding for me. I could be so wrong and it's like she would make it seem like I was right. And that's what I miss the most about those little things about them. I really thought I would have my sisters forever and that, that's what hurts the most.
25:09 Anderson Cooper? Your dad says, you've just got to go forward, not move on, but go forward. I think that's really, it's a really smart way of saying it. It's not moving on, it's not forgetting, but it's.
25:24 Anderson Cooper? Putting one step in front of the other, even if it's a tiny little step.
25:28 Speaker 02 Yeah, I didn't even really understand how big that line was because that's exactly what grief is. Is finding ways to go forward without moving on.
25:38 Anderson Cooper? Yeah, it's like not moving on is like carrying with, walking with.
25:41 Speaker 02 Yes, any door you go in, anything that you do, they're right there with you.
25:47 Anderson Cooper? I used to think strength was going forward and moving on, but that's not strength.
25:52 Speaker 02 No.
25:52 Anderson Cooper? That's, that's running from and.
25:56 Speaker 02 And that's what I feel like I've, I've done for a lot, you know.
26:01 Anderson Cooper? Join the club.
26:02 Speaker 02 Yeah, and like you said that earlier too, and that's what grief is about is like,
26:09 Speaker 02 not forgetting, not moving on, but, but really figuring out how to go forward.
26:14 Anderson Cooper? What do you say to your kids about your grief?
26:17 Speaker 02 When my older sister died a year and a half ago, that's when I was able to like sit down and speak to them. Like especially my older boys, they're 15 and 14 now, but just speaking to them my emotions. So when I'm on the couch crying, they're not just like, oh, let's get away from daddy. Give them a space and I come over here, I understand why I'm crying. I miss my sisters and it's okay to cry. Never seen my dad cry when I was a kid, I just thought you shouldn't cry. I try to explain to my kids, like you can be emotional. Adult men cry, that's strength, it's not soft crying. In life, you care that much, you're gonna cry and you're gonna be emotional. So not to hide those emotions at some point in their life when they hit some adversity or some type of grief,
27:02 Speaker 02 the last thing they're gonna do is hold it in because that's the worst thing to do.
27:06 Anderson Cooper? My six year old, like I, when I try to talk about emotions with him, like he, he just, will try to change the subject. I was the same way as a kid and I really don't want that for him.
27:17 Speaker 02 And then my daughter's seven, she used to start crying with me, doesn't even know why. It's like the boys, they're at age now, I can really explain to them like, yeah, you think your dad's all super tough and things, but like it's also tough to cry too. I guess you can do that and you can explain and speak about your emotions in this family, you can. And I want them to know that when I go to my, my sister's funeral home and talk to her, both of them, it makes me feel that much more closer to them. I don't know, grief sucks, but.
27:50 Speaker 02 There's ways around it that can help you. And I really believe that. And as I start to meet more people that's open about talking about their story, it just, man, it helps. Like, in life, you just need others. You need others to accomplish things, to get through things, to not move on, but to go forward. Like, you need others. And coming on things like this is like, I can't wait to see the feedback. Just to read comments or to hear what others are going through, because everybody has that in common. And so many people come from the environment I come from, from the inner city, that have nobody to talk to and going through so much.
28:33 Speaker 02 Death, adversity, school, and have nobody to speak to.
28:37 Anderson Cooper? A very close friend of mine who was incarcerated for 29 years, we talk about this all the time, that prisons are full of grieving people.
28:46 Speaker 02 I got a friend that's serving for a crime I know he didn't do, but I speak to him every day just to let him cry out and speak about things he's not speaking about in there. So I understand that, and that's helped me in ways that he doesn't even know. Just being able to speak about things to people and just somebody here without having an answer and without having a comeback for what I'm saying is like, that's huge in everybody's life, and everybody doesn't have those things.
29:17 Anderson Cooper? Is there something you've learned about grief that would be helpful for others?
29:21 Speaker 02 The biggest thing is leaning on others. I get so many messages on social media, like, "Man, you inspired me." Like, that moment when your sister, when you went through that, "I was going through this," and just watching you on TV got me through. I didn't understand the impact or the inspiration I had on people until after. No matter how amazing your life or how bad your life is, that's one thing we have in common is losing someone. Everybody loses someone. Everybody goes through adversity. And there is people who want to speak about these things. And anytime I'm able to speak about my sister, it makes me feel so much better. It like helps.
30:04 Speaker 02 Just because I happen to be on TV or play the game at the highest level, it still hurts. And I still need people, and I still need... Others to be able to get me through. Cause like, growing up, you always feel like you can do things on your own. But like, as I've gotten older, especially dealing with these situations, like, man, you need people. You need, whether you can listen to somebody's story, whether you can have somebody listen to yours, it's needed. In my life, I've never leaned on nobody other than my parents. But the ability to lean on others and finding the right people to be able to lean on has helped me in ways that I can't even explain. And it could be a stranger or somebody you've had a 30-year friendship with.
30:50 Speaker 02 That stranger can possibly help you out more than that person that you've known. Don't shy away from that if that opportunity ever presents itself.
31:01 Anderson Cooper? It'd be okay if we played the song that you?
31:04 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah.
31:04 Anderson Cooper? That China song?
31:05 Speaker 02 For sure. It was called "We Fall Down." We grew up in church too, so she doing.
31:11 Speaker 02 And I'm in the background, I'm like this.
31:16 Speaker 02 Ah, I miss her, that's crazy.
31:22 Speaker 02 I'd be like the, I'd be like the choir in the background.
31:27 Anderson Cooper? It's lovely, it's great.
31:30 Speaker 02 That's her.
31:31 Anderson Cooper? And it's the same thing your dad said. I mean,
31:36 Anderson Cooper? "Go forward, not move on." "We fall down, we get up."
31:39 Speaker 02 Get back up again.
31:42 Speaker 02 Now we're getting back up with others. That's the plan.
31:48 Speaker 02 To keep moving and keep going forward with, with others. That's the only way.
31:54 Anderson Cooper? Isaiah, thank you so much, it's been really lovely to talk to you.
31:57 Speaker 02 Thank you, this has helped.
31:58 Anderson Cooper? And thank you for telling us about your family and your sisters.
32:02 Speaker 02 I appreciate you.
32:05 Anderson Cooper? If you have some thoughts about this conversation with Isaiah Thomas, we'd love to hear from you. You can leave a comment at CNN.com/AllThereIs. There's a short film about Isaiah Thomas and his family's experience with loss called Go Forward. It's part of a larger documentary that's currently in the works about his life and basketball career. Thursday, May 21st, we won't have a new episode of our streaming show, All There Is Live. Instead, we'll be bringing you another new episode of this podcast. It's a conversation I had with Today Show co-host Chanel Jones. Her husband, Uche, died last May from glioblastoma. I talked with her about her grief and also the recent loss of her grandmother, Josephine, who died on New Year's Eve at the age of 96.
32:45 Speaker 07 What I also realized is I grieved Uche for so long. And I'm sure somebody will know if this is a term I don't know, but like, I pre-grieved too. So, because you know it's coming, even though I was in denial. And then I grieved Uche, and so I've been grieving for so long that I will acknowledge I don't think I have truly grieved her, because then it's too much. Like, you know, everyone's like, "Oh, you're so strong, and you're there for your kids," and, you know, all of the things. And grieving him has been so much. And so with her, I've had to, like, tuck it just a little bit.
33:28 Speaker 07 Like, I can feel it, but like, if I allow myself to truly explore, you know, what she means to me, I might have to take a personal day tomorrow.
33:41 Anderson Cooper? That's coming up in All There Is. If there's something you've learned in your grief that you think would be helpful for others, leave us a voicemail at 404-827-1805. Thanks for listening.
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