Pod Insights All In The Mind Why do we love collecting? About this episode Whether it's stamps, figurines, antiques or toys, plenty of people love collecting. But why?
What are the psychological drivers behind the hobby? How much is marketing influencing us, and is there a risk of collecting turning into hoarding?
If you enjoy the show or if you have feedback you'd like to share, please check out our survey here https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/allinthemind/audience-survey-feedback/105151860.
Guests:
Sam ToddContent creator and collector
Professor Nick NeaveDirector of the Hoarding Research GroupDepartment of Psychology, Northumbria University
Associate Professor Louise GrimmerTasmanian School of Business and EconomicsUniversity of Tasmania
Credits:
Presenter/producer: Sana QadarReporter/producer: Rose KerrSenior producer: James BullenSound engineer: Micky GrossmanMore info:
Why They Collect: Collectors Reveal Their Motivations https://www.proquest.com/openview/db49ec3dac9c7716c7965ca5fb3a1851/1?cbl=1819046&pq-origsite=gscholarHow retailers turn everyday items into 'must-have' collectables https://www.utas.edu.au/about/news-and-stories/articles/2018/714-how-retailers-turn-everyday-items-into-must-have-collectables
Transcript 0:00 Speaker 00 ABC Listen. Podcasts, radio, news, music and more.
0:07 Speaker 01 What do vintage teaspoons, coins, plush toys, handbags, stamps and comic books all have in common? Certain people, for whatever reason, love to collect them.
0:22 Speaker 01 What's the deal with this drive to collect?
0:26 Speaker 01 What about our psychology makes it appealing? Or is it all just clever marketing?
0:32 Speaker 02 Across the board, retailers, manufacturers definitely know that as humans, many of us have the desire to collect.
0:41 Speaker 01 And what separates collecting from hoarding?
0:44 Speaker 00 People often conflate hoarding with collecting, but there is quite a clear difference.
0:52 Speaker 01 I'm Sana Qadar. This is All in the Mind and today producer Rose Kerr joins us to explain our love of collecting.
1:03 Speaker 01 Hi, Rose.
1:04 Speaker 03 Hi, Sana. I have been dying to ask you, are you a collector?
1:09 Speaker 01 Um, no, not as an adult. I'm trying to think. I don't know. I don't really collect anything now. As a kid, you know, I was into collecting stickers and Kinder Surprise toys, weirdly, was a big collecting thing of mine. So I had a bookshelf full of like Kinder Surprise toys in my room.
1:27 Speaker 03 Oh, that's so sweet. That is an absolutely classic kids' collection.
1:31 Speaker 01 What about you?
1:32 Speaker 03 Look, I definitely had similar collections as a child, but as an adult, I do have a small collection of Sunny Angels, if you've ever heard of them.
1:41 Speaker 01 No, what's that?
1:42 Speaker 03 It's like a Japanese figurine. It's about 10 centimetres tall. It looks like a little baby angel wearing cutesy hats. So things like fruit or animals.
1:52 Speaker 01 Okay. How did you get into collecting that of all things?
1:56 Speaker 03 Well, it's a bit of a funny story because I was given one of these figurines about 10 years ago by a family member. And for the last 10 years, it's just sat on my shelf and people would visit my house and they'd be like, oh, that's cute, but a little bit weird that you have this little... Baby angel. But flash forward 10 years later and sunny angels are hugely popular online and in stores. I noticed it online on TikTok and Instagram. People were making unboxing videos. There's this whole resale market.
2:25 Speaker 01 What? Okay, so why, why do people like collecting? You know, what, what is it about having many of the same object that appeals?
2:32 Speaker 03 I have been obsessed with this question for quite some time now. So I thought the best way to start investigating was to talk to a collector.
2:41 Speaker 04 I wish you guys could see the interview right now because Labubu is here in the room. She is wearing the headphones and she's also wearing a tutu.
2:47 Speaker 03 Meet Sam Todd, a content creator based in Brisbane.
2:51 Speaker 04 I make content about shopping, fashion, travel and shopping and fashion while travelling.
2:57 Speaker 03 She's a keen collector of a few things, but her most prized collectible is Labubu, the little elf Sam has brought into the studio.
3:07 Speaker 03 If you've never seen or heard of Labubu before, that is completely understandable. They're still somewhat niche, so here's a description of what they look like. Imagine a plush toy attached to a keychain just shy of 20 centimetres tall. It's got pastel coloured fur, rabbit-like ears and a plastic final face with a big toothy grin. In some ways, they're similar to the figurines I collect. They tap into cutesy nostalgia resembling kids' toys, but marketed towards adults. And you're most likely to spot a Labubu attached to someone's handbag or backpack.
3:44 Speaker 03 Sam's a big fan and she's built an online community that follow her quest to collect them.
3:49 Speaker 04 I am currently in possession of the hardest to get items in the whole entire world right now. A Labubu V3.
3:55 Speaker 03 And these critters have exploded in popularity. That's in part down to their fashion status, worn by the likes of Rihanna, Dua Lipa and Blackpink's Lisa, along with plenty of content creators like Sam. And it's generating a lot of competition to buy them. How far have you gone for a collectible?
4:16 Speaker 04 Well, I would say we've been talking a lot about Miss Labubu and she has been the hardest one to find. I have gone to so many countries trying to find her. It's almost impossible in Australia. I've gone to Japan, I've gone to America, Paris, London. I have been everywhere and most of my attempts are not success stories.
4:36 Speaker 03 But Sam did have one big win.
4:39 Speaker 04 So the best success story that I've ever had is actually a week-long journey. So very fortunately for me and motivatingly, there is a pop mart vending machine around the corner from my gym. So it would motivate me to go to the gym every morning because I knew afterwards I could check the vending machine and see if there is a Labubu in there. And historically, there is never a Labubu in there because the second they get restocked, someone takes them all.
5:03 Speaker 03 Sam didn't give up. Every day she would go to the gym and check the vending machine for something to add to her collection.
5:09 Speaker 04 On the seventh day, I arrived at the exact moment that the man who works for Popmart was there restocking it. And he had a trolley full of Labubus and he said that I needed to wait for 30 minutes while he restocked it. And I went and I sat far away, but then I kept seeing people walk past and I was like, what if they, what if they get first in line?
5:29 Speaker 03 Finally, her patience paid off.
5:31 Speaker 04 I was able to be first in line and I got six Labubus. Don't tell anyone I got that many and it was the best day of my life. So I had to walk through the shopping mall, holding all these boxes in my arms. And I was like, you know what, this is my, this is not a walk of shame, this is a walk of pride. I'm like everybody to see that this time I won.
5:53 Speaker 03 The world has seen plenty of collecting crazes, from Pokémon.
5:57 Speaker 01 Hundreds are queuing for the latest Pokémon game cartridges.
6:01 Speaker 03 To sports collecting cards.
6:03 Speaker 01 Swap meets, buyer's guides, a whole new language and sometimes big money. This card is worth $600.
6:13 Speaker 03 Even stamps.
6:14 Speaker 05 Ray, who's now 64, has been collecting stamps since he was nine years old.
6:18 Speaker 03 All of this makes me wonder, why do humans like collecting?
6:23 Speaker 00 Hi, I'm Professor Nick Neave. I'm a psychologist at Northumbria University in the UK.
6:29 Speaker 03 Nick says research about collecting is somewhat limited, but we do know a bit about the underlying motivations for the hobby, thanks to observations from researchers back in the 90s.
6:39 Speaker 00 There's been a little bit of work done. There was one survey done in the 90s. A guy called Formanek did a survey of 167 people who collected. And they kind of found five key things which underlie the behaviours. I mean, certainly the first one and the most important seems to be meanings in relation to the self. You know, your collection is an indication of you. It's an extension of your personality. It brings pleasure. It gives self-fulfillment. It gives you a challenge. You know, there's something to aim for. And it's very, very strongly linked with self-esteem, with positive self-esteem.
7:19 Speaker 03 The second motivation is all about a sense of community.
7:23 Speaker 00 Collectors are very sociable. You form friendship bonds. You share knowledge. You exchange knowledge. You barter, you compete, you know, and it's often there's a little element of competition in there, but it's often a very friendly one. You know, certainly in the old days, people would have to go to collectors' forums. You know, you'd go to an antique and collector's fair at your local sports centre. And you'd meet the same people and you'd share ideas and you, you know, you kind of trade things and whatever. Nowadays, of course, you can go online. You can really be plugged into what's going on all around the world, which is incredibly fascinating.
8:03 Speaker 03 People may also be drawn to the financial element.
8:06 Speaker 00 They may collect wine or whiskey or art or stamps. As a possible investment for for the future, but these people tend to be quite rare. Most people collect things out of the sheer pleasure. You know, they'll find an object, they'll get very interested in that object, they'll want to know about the kind of history of that object. And and kind of there's another element as well is that some people seem to collect things as a mean of preserving objects and restoring them. You know, they've got a very strong passion for history, they're very sentimental, they kind of have this um social duty. And the final thing really is is that it is addictive, it is exciting to find that last element in your collection.
8:51 Speaker 00 So it is obsessive, it is addictive, but it's but it's pleasurable.
8:58 Speaker 03 We've been talking about adult collectors, but collecting as a hobby tends to start in childhood.
9:04 Speaker 00 And we know, for example, that one of the key elements is that a person will have what's called a seed object. So for example, a friend or a relative might give you something as a gift. Your granny might give you a little figurine of a fox. And then people get these very strong emotional connections to that because it's been given to them by a loved person. And so they'll then have a real passion then for collecting figurines of foxes. And that might then diversify into figurines of animals or something like that.
9:35 Speaker 03 And even as kids, collecting is very social. Sometimes a passion for collecting might come about because of what's trendy on the playground. Think about what was popular when you were a kid.
9:45 Speaker 00 There are fashions, so at the minute, I think, you know, lots of people are collecting jelly cats. That's a big thing. Um when my daughter was little, there was a real kind of a thing in in the school for collecting rocks and fossils. You see these these kind of crazers wax and wane.
10:01 Speaker 03 But our interest in collecting tends to fade away when we're teenagers.
10:05 Speaker 00 People get interested in other things, of course. And then as adults, people still remain really quite serious collectors.
10:12 Speaker 03 One of the reasons why people get back into collecting as an adult is because usually you have more money. You might also be influenced by other people, like online groups or trends.
10:23 Speaker 00 So I mean, you know, you you've then got access to a a community of people who are incredibly knowledgeable and passionate all around the world. And that can mean that you diversify into collecting different things. I mean, one thing is interesting is that while men and women tend to be collectors, they there there seems to be no big difference in the the kind of figures for that. They do tend to collect different things. So men seem to be drawn towards more kind of mechanically type related things. So automobile, militaria, kind of train numbers, aeroplane spotting. They might be collecting beer drinking related things, beer mugs, things like that.
11:05 Speaker 00 But women tend to go for more things like figurines or for shoes or for clothing or for jewellery. Items with a more kind of an emotional significance.
11:16 Speaker 03 It's really interesting because sometimes when I explain these kinds of items to people who've never heard of them, they almost sound like kids' toys, right? So what do you think attracts people like yourself, adults, to these kind of like cutesy, almost childish, nostalgic collectibles?
11:33 Speaker 04 Well, I think it really comes back to what you liked as a kid. Because, you know, we all have certain things that we really loved when we were a kid. Like for me, I love Sylvanian families.
11:41 Speaker 03 These are little animal figurines dressed up in clothes. And although Sam happily collects them now, there was a moment when she had no interest in them.
11:50 Speaker 04 When you become a teenager, you're like, oh, that's so uncool. I want to be grown up. I sell all of my things at the garage sale. What I wouldn't give to get the Sylvanian families that I sold for 50 cents at the garage sale back. But once you become an adult and more accepting and understanding of yourself, I think you reintroduce the things that you've always loved all along back into your life. And so for me, that's dolls and collectibles. I was always that girl and now I am accepting that that is who I am, if that makes sense.
12:20 Speaker 03 While thinking about collecting as a hobby for this episode, I started to wonder about the difference between collecting and hoarding. Thankfully, Professor Nick Neave, who you've been hearing from, is also the director of the Hoarding Research Group at Northumbria University. I asked him what the difference is between hoarding and collecting.
12:39 Speaker 00 Yeah, that's a very interesting question. People often conflate hoarding with collecting, but there is quite a clear difference. Hoarding is where people accumulate a large number of unrelated items. They are acquired, they're often free or very cheap to acquire. There's no specific reason for the acquisition. People store them all around the house, higgledy piggledy. People don't really know what they've got and how they've got it. It's the getting of something which seems to be important and then people forget all about it. Collecting is very, very different.
13:19 Speaker 00 It's a very focused way of acquiring a specific set of unique items. And these items are typically non-utilitarian. You don't use them for anything. And very importantly, there's an end point, there's an end goal. So there's a finite collection of these things which you could possibly get. So if you were, for example, collecting train numbers in a certain country, there's only a certain number of trains that you could possibly spot. So you would go out and you would collect them, you would record them, you would have a very clear idea of what you'd got, how you'd got it, when you'd got it. You would have them stored in some way in a little book.
14:02 Speaker 00 So it's much more a very focused endeavour. There are some people, though, where collections can merge. People can collect more things, one or more things, and this can turn into what looks like a hoard. But technically, the two things are very different.
14:20 Speaker 03 Is there a definition for collecting? Because sometimes I think, you know, to a collector, their collection is very special. But to an outsider, it just seems like a lot of things. I- is there a point where something becomes a collection or someone is called a collector?
14:38 Speaker 00 It is interesting because when people have tried to ask these questions, well, well, actually, people haven't really. Um, there's still an awful lot that we don't know about collecting and why it starts and how it starts. There's a lot of research done kind of in the eighties and the nineties. And people were looking at collecting really from a kind of a librarians doing a lot of research, economists doing a lot of research. They, they were looking at kind of art collectors and people who collected these incredibly expensive things, which is not normal. Most people collect things which aren't really that expensive. And, you know, there's, one of the striking questions is, well, if I want to go and measure hoarding behaviours in people,
15:23 Speaker 00 I've got four or five very good questionnaires which enable me to do that. And people can fill them in and then you can compare between different countries and different people. With collecting, no such questionnaire exists. I mean, it's interesting, we've got an internship student right now who's de- developing that. And then we're trying to put together a questionnaire to measure it properly so that we can ask these rather more interesting questions about when it starts, when it ends, what's the differences between people, what's the difference between groups of people, say, for example.
15:56 Speaker 03 Nick's also interested in the intersection between hoarders and collectors. It's not something he's got any data on yet, but it's an area he wants to explore.
16:05 Speaker 00 This group in London speculated that people, there might be some people that have elements of both. And these are people who start off as a collector, they collect one thing, but they get distracted, they get sidetracked, they go, oh, I'll get another thing. And, and suddenly they end up with what looks much more like a hoard. And it takes over their life and it's cluttered. And then they also start to get these feelings of shame and stigma because they realise that things have gone too far. But exactly what differentiates those people from collectors and from hoarders is something which we don't yet fully understand. What is it about a collector that might turn them into a hoarder or vice versa? We simply don't know.
16:50 Speaker 00 But, but as I've said, if we can develop these questionnaires to tap into collecting, then we might be on the, in the early stages of trying to find out.
17:02 Speaker 01 You're listening to All in the Mind. I'm Sana Qadar. So we've heard that collecting usually starts in childhood. And then during adolescence, people generally fall out of love with the hobby because it's not really cool anymore. But lots of adults rediscover collecting and this is what producer Rose Kerr has been investigating.
17:23 Speaker 01 And Rose, the cynic in me does wonder if collectibles are really just clever marketing?
17:29 Speaker 03 I definitely had the same thought. So I reached out to Louise Grimmer. She's a marketing and retailing researcher interested in consumer behaviour and trends.
17:41 Speaker 02 Hello, I'm Associate Professor Louise Grimmer from the Tasmanian School of Business and Economics at the University of Tasmania.
17:49 Speaker 03 How aware are marketers and product designers of the human love of collecting?
17:55 Speaker 02 Oh, yes, look, very, very aware. But I think back to when I was a child and a lot of the food manufacturers were some of the first, I guess, to, to recognise the power of collecting. In breakfast cereals, you would be able to collect a number of, of different items. If you think back to sort of the 50s, 60s, 70s as well, you would have collector cards, you know, for sports teams and movie star collector cards, cigarette cards. There's a real intention behind these collectible items that we see food manufacturers, toy manufacturers, supermarkets, et cetera, bringing out. And it's all about recognising the need that a lot of people have to collect
18:38 Speaker 02 and, and then really meeting that need by bringing out either things that become trendy to. Or through promotions with things like blind bag collecting. But there's no doubt that across the board retailers, manufacturers definitely know that as humans, many of us have the desire to collect. And that's why we see so many toys really aimed a lot of the time at adults. And they're all about collecting, you know, in a series. And then there'll be another series that comes out that has to be collected. It's completely intentional, absolutely.
19:17 Speaker 03 There's a bit of a trend in collectibles at the moment with blind bags. You might have also heard them referred to as surprise packs or blind boxes. Basically, you buy a toy that's in some kind of sealed package. And what's inside is a mystery to you. Sunny Angels, my favourite collectible, comes in one, as well as Sam's fave, Labubu.
19:39 Speaker 02 I find blind bags absolutely fascinating. Listeners will be familiar with them because they're pretty ubiquitous. And you see them at the checkout often. They are often bought out by toy manufacturers. But most of these are relatively cheap. And they really tap into a few different trends that we see in consumer behaviour. So one is around the need to collect the entire series. And then you've got the sort of, I guess, little bit of dopamine rush when you're opening the blind bag because you don't know what you're going to get. And then, of course, you've got this element of surprise. So you've got the pleasure of getting a reward with an element of surprise.
20:24 Speaker 02 That's very compelling and it's very addictive.
20:27 Speaker 03 Louise says this taps into some of the psychological mechanisms behind gambling. In particular, intermittent reinforcement.
20:35 Speaker 02 So the reason intermittent reinforcement is so powerful is that you don't know what you're going to get. You know you're going to get something, but you might be getting something that you've already got five of. And so that's what leads people to keep on purchasing these blind bags. Once you start sort of collecting them, you're really going through some of these processes that can get you a bit addicted to them, I guess. And that's certainly what manufacturers and retailers, they're very aware of the consumer behaviour behind this phenomenal growth and profitability of blind bags.
21:14 Speaker 03 Do you find it has that kind of rush? And do you feel like it's a little bit addictive?
21:19 Speaker 04 Oh, absolutely. Because especially like even if you lose and you don't get the one you wanted, then you're like, oh, my God, now I have to go back and get another one immediately to rectify this situation. And then if you did get the one you wanted, you're like, oh, my God, that's amazing. I should try again because I have such good luck. So, you know what? I got to give it to them. It's a fabulous marketing and sales tactic. They got me good.
21:40 Speaker 03 In Australia, there was one really popular blind bag collectible that you might remember.
21:45 Speaker 02 The Little Shop Collectibles was possibly one of the most successful of these kinds of promotions that we've seen in Australia for quite some time. And basically, it was that you spent a certain amount of money at the supermarket and you got a blind bag with a little collectible in it. Now, the the collectible was a very tiny, cute version of different branded, nationally branded products that are sold in the supermarket. So this is a beautiful sort of holistic promotion, I guess, because you've got well-known national brands paying money to be a part of this promotion. You've got the blind bag part of the promotion.
22:29 Speaker 02 And we saw that it actually really ended up appealing to a lot of adults. So whilst it was, you know, probably much more aimed at children, what we saw was it was so successful that it actually cut across different age groups. And there were lots of videos of people unboxing their blind bags, talking about their collections. There were swap days. It really was one of the most successful promotions we've seen.
22:57 Speaker 03 And when it comes to the power of a promotion like this one, Louise says marketers are hoping it'll hook you in for the longer term.
23:04 Speaker 02 It's very hard to get people to swap brands. And that's what these blind bag promotions in supermarkets are doing. You know, there's something in these cute little plastic things that people just couldn't get enough of, which is really quite shocking when we, you know, think about the the drive for sustainability and recycling and repurposing and all those things. So it's a very complex thing, I think, that taps into lots of different consumer psychology.
23:32 Speaker 04 I really liken the recent rise of collectibles to... Have you heard of the lipstick effect before?
23:37 Speaker 02 No.
23:37 Speaker 04 It originated in around like the 1990s when there was a recession. Research around the global financial crisis and it was women buying lipsticks and an enormous rise in sales of makeup and lipsticks because of the financial crisis. They couldn't afford to buy big things, but that's like a little treat that you can have that makes you feel good. I'm no economics professor, but I feel like the upturn in collectibles is a little bit like that. It's just bringing a little bit of joy into your everyday life in an achievable way.
24:06 Speaker 02 I put this idea to Louise. There's no doubt that a lot of Australians are doing it pretty tough at the moment because the cost of living is, you know, it's pretty dire for a lot of people. We still want to treat ourselves. And so what happens is that we tend to cut back on more expensive purchases or big purchases. And we say, "Look, I really need a new washing machine or I really need a new fridge, but I really just can't afford it at the moment." But a lot of us still want to treat ourselves. And so what they'd sort of found historically, and I think this term was coined by Leonard Lauder. That's the former CEO of Estee Lauder.
24:44 Speaker 02 Because during the 2001 recession, their sales in lipsticks rose substantially. And it's happened, I think it's happened earlier than that as well. What it really represents is that even though times are tough, female consumers particularly, they still want a little treat. And so something like a new lipstick is a little treat that you can afford. It makes you feel good. It doesn't have to be lipstick. You know, if you are a collector, you don't really want anything to get in the way of your, you know, adding to your collection. And so we find that if you are collecting small, sort of reasonably priced things, people will still keep adding to their collection even when, you know, budgets are tight.
25:30 Speaker 03 Collecting can be a lot of fun. It can help you express yourself and it might connect you with new people. But Associate Professor Louise Grimmer does have a little word of warning.
25:41 Speaker 02 I guess just a sort of cautionary word is around thinking about are you collecting things because they really bring you joy and you actually really enjoy it? Or are you collecting these things because they're in fashion at the moment? Or they're trendy or your friendship group is collecting these things and you're trying to sort of keep up and be part of it? It does pay to understand the way that marketing and promotion works, to understand how fear of missing out works. And if you really like something, that's totally great. But if it's just collecting for collecting's sake, then you know, you could probably save your money.
26:23 Speaker 03 Do you feel proud of your collections?
26:26 Speaker 04 Absolutely. I have done so hard around the world to get these Labubus. They are very proudly displayed in the background of my videos that I film at home. Each day I choose whatever one matches my outfit to take out with me. I kind of liken the purse pals to wearing a band t-shirt. Like, you know how you can immediately know a little bit about someone and what they're into when you see that they're wearing, I don't know, a Green Day t-shirt? So you can tell a little bit about someone by the bag tone that they have, which I really like. And I've always perceived fashion as that way. The way that I dress tells the world exactly who I am without me having to say anything.
26:59 Speaker 03 Do you see yourself ever feeling like you've got, yeah, everything that you need?
27:04 Speaker 04 Well, maybe if these brands stopped releasing things.
27:07 Speaker 03 Yeah, that's true.
27:08 Speaker 04 I feel passionately targeted towards me.
27:12 Speaker 04 Honestly, I'm a sucker and I'll admit it. Constantly new things are released and I'm like, oh my God, I love it. I am a marketer's dream.
27:30 Speaker 01 That's Brisbane-based content creator Sam Todd. You also heard from Professor Nick Neav from Northumbria University, and Associate Professor Louise Grimmer from the University of Tasmania. This episode was reported and produced by Rose Kerr. Thanks for joining me, Rose. Thanks to you, Sana. And our senior producer is James Bullen. Our sound engineer this week was Mickey Grossman. I'm Sana Qadar. I host and produce All in the Mind. Thank you for listening. I will catch you next time.
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