Antonio Gracias: DOGE updates, Voter fraud arrests, Finding 'Big Balls' | All-In Live from Miami

(0:00) The Besties welcome Antonio Gracias! (0:30) DOGE updates: Government complexity worse than imagined, how to fix it (9:00) Talent acquisition: How Elon attracted 10x engineers for DOGE, a better model for civil service (15:54) Voter fraud findings: illegal immigrants voting in elections, building a zero-defect voting system (22:12) Fixing immigration in the US Thanks to our partners for helping make this happen! Check out OKX: https://www.okx.com Check out Circle: https://www.circle.com Follow Antonio: https://x.com/AntonioGracias Follow the besties: https://x.com/chamath https://x.com/Jason https://x.com/DavidSacks https://x.com/friedberg Follow on X: https://x.com/theallinpod Follow on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theallinpod Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@theallinpod Follow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/allinpod Intro Music Credit: https://rb.gy/tppkzl https://x.com/yung_spielburg Intro Video Credit: https://x.com/TheZachEffect

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Jason Calacanis?

  Where's Antonio Gracias? Bring him up. How bad is it? How messed up is our government?

• 0:07Antonio Gracias?

  So if Twitter was like the JV league, this is like the NBA. It's the most complex thing I've ever seen.

• 0:13David Friedberg?

  How is he able to find big balls?

• 0:15Jason Calacanis?

  Where do they show up? Do they just apply out of the blue? I mean, where do these guys come from? You found some people who were illegal immigrants who registered to vote?

• 0:22Antonio Gracias?

  Yes, this is actually true. Every vote that is cast illegally in America nullifies the vote of an American citizen.

• 0:30Jason Calacanis?

  So, Antonio, we know you're very busy because you decided, like a couple of our other friends, to take a second job, working in our government, for 100 or so days. You can give a round of applause for that.

• 0:47Jason Calacanis?

  You know, Trump is a unique individual in all the world. There's maybe polarizing in some ways, but one thing that's not polarizing is Doge. I think everybody wants to see waste, fraud, and abuse, and controlled spending in government. Maybe there's some questions about how fast it's going, but we all know you and Elon like to go, you know, at a brisk pace.

• 1:09Jason Calacanis?

  You laid back and you joined a little later in the process. Like a stat, you joined maybe, what, 15, 20 days ago?

• 1:15Antonio Gracias?

  I've been there for eight weeks.

• 1:18Jason Calacanis?

  Eight weeks, okay. So it's been like, yeah, 60 days. And you went public with it maybe a couple of weeks ago.

• 1:23Antonio Gracias?

  Yeah. I was with Elon Maryland for the first four weeks, so you didn't know I was there.

• 1:26Jason Calacanis?

  Yes, so. So how bad is it? How messed up is our government? How insane are the processes? You're a process guy. You know, we both worked on the Twitter acquisition and the transfer there and did all the zero-based budgeting. I mean, maybe compare and contrast it to that, which was maybe one of the most horrific corporate entities I've ever seen in my life.

• 1:52Antonio Gracias?

  Yeah, it was tough.

• 1:52Jason Calacanis?

  And how that was being run.

• 1:53Antonio Gracias?

  It was tough. Well, let me start with thank you, guys. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. It's great to be down here to see everybody. And let me also say that it's an honor to serve America. Like, whatever I am doing, I am grateful to be able to do it. I'm grateful my partners for allowing me to do it and my clients for supporting it. And it truly is an honor to be there. There's many great people in the government trying to help. So let me just start with that.

• 2:12Jason Calacanis?

  Okay.

• 2:14Jason Calacanis?

  This is sacrifice, right? You're taking time out of your day job.

• 2:18Antonio Gracias?

  It's definitely sacrifice, but it really, I feel very grateful that I have the capacity in 30 years of training in lean operations that I can be useful. You know, that feels very, I feel a gratitude. Yeah, how bad is it? So if Twitter was like the JV league, this is like the NBA. It's the most complex thing I've ever seen. I have in our office in DC, I have a, I've mapped now as an example, the entire system of, basically from the border to the benefits programs. It's about a 40-foot board and it looks like a Basquiat. It's, I mean, it's incredible, like spaghetti Graham stuff. And yeah, I've never seen anything so complex in my life. So the answer to your question is, it's worse than I thought, much, much worse than what

• 3:03Antonio Gracias?

  we saw at Twitter now X. And America, Americans, and all of you, we deserve better.

• 3:11Jason Calacanis?

  Okay. If we were to, and I'm sure Shabat has some questions in Freebury, but if we were to look at $1 spent by our government, waste, fraud, abuse, how many pennies of the dollar is it? If you had to, just based on what you've seen so far, a range?

• 3:31Antonio Gracias?

  Here's what's sad, if you go into any company, any company you guys have ever seen that is not like super well-run, it probably is like easy cut 15%. Easy, easy, easy. This is where the 15, this is where the trillion dollar number came from, 15% of $7 billion. I think if we had the political will, you'd easily get that 15% no problem, not without any problem at all, and without cutting the core entitlement programs. So it's definitely there. The question is, do people want to do it or not? And remember, every dollar we take, we are taking from an NGO or a Beltway consultant. You know, it's actually, the people are screaming about this because we're taking money from them. And it is, whatever you read in the news media, I gotta tell you, it isn't true.

• 4:14Antonio Gracias?

  I mean, the cuts, I think it's 88% of the people that have left the government have taken packages. The packages are very lucrative. There's sort of, you know, nine months or so of severance and they're voluntary. So yeah, I tell you, and I'll also say the people that work in government are good. There's lots of good people in the government that I have met and have pointed this at all this stuff. They deserve better. Okay, imagine trying to be a civil servant, you want to do the right thing, you're working there because you care about America, and you're in this like massive bureaucratic morass with all this stuff on top of you, and man, I've seen like, I've seen OIG reports where the people have reported to OIG like sex trafficking, and they turn it in and nothing happens. Like literally nothing happens. Okay, so that's very frustrating, and they stick it out, they keep going, and they keep working hard for America. So I think it's not just

• 4:59Antonio Gracias?

  about the cost, it's about the culture. Like the culture change of allowing good people who are in the government to understand that someone's listening, that when they want to make improvement, change, or when they find fraud, waste, and abuse, they can do it, and there's an avenue now to do it. I think that's actually going to be one of the most important lasting thing we leave, is this idea that your voice matters in the government, that there are good people in the government, and when they want to do the right thing, there's a way to do it.

• 5:25Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And you got people coming back to work in the office?

• 5:29Antonio Gracias?

  Well, I'll tell you so. We have been pilloried often in the press for social administration where I started, and here are the facts. When I got there, just like at Twitter, the parking lot was empty, and I'm talking about stadium-sized parking, okay? Empty. The office was empty, there was no one in the corporate office, the headquarters office in Woodland, Maryland. And then, because we follow our process of mapping from like end to end of the system, we went to visit a couple offices, I went to one myself. The one that I went to, there were about 20 people in the waiting room, there were seven people in the windows, of the seven people, three had their shades half down. Those people were taking phone calls, because during COVID, they turned everyone into phone operators. What we learned is, they were still running on COVID operations. So we have now, through

• 6:13Antonio Gracias?

  our efforts and efforts of the interim administrator, brought everyone back to the office, and back to the offices in the field. We haven't closed one field office, not one since we've been there. Everything you're reading about service levels is not true. What I saw, imagine how frustrating that is, if you're waiting in the waiting room, you see seven windows out of 25 open, and three of the people are taking phone calls, and you're waiting.

• 6:32Chamath Palihapitiya?

  So look, like, in all the companies that we all run, we always talk about using incentives to shape the outcome you want? And I think you keep insisting, which I think is right, that civil servants by and large want the right things to happen. That's why they chose to go and work for the government. So what is the incentive we need to change? Is it a compensation incentive? Is it like what like what is it?

• 6:59Antonio Gracias?

  Look, I think the people that work in the government, it's a normal distribution of everything, right? It's two and a half million people in the government plus contractors. And some people are great, some people aren't great, and a lot of people in the middle. And the people in the middle react to the incentives as you as you point out. I think the most important thing here is transparency of the metrics. Because they these folks aren't there for the money. Many of them are very good because they're making money somewhere else. The incentives we should create are transparency in some basic metrics. They know how they're doing. You know, we were example at SO Security, we were criticized for the website uptime. Well, turns out website uptime has been better since we got there than after, imagine we have engineers. And we've now published the metrics on the website publicly. So people can see it. So the engineering team now managing the website can see, you know, that they're doing a good job or not doing a good job.

• 7:43Antonio Gracias?

  And the public can see if they're doing a job or not doing a good job. I don't think financial incentives are always useful. But this is not just about money.

• 7:51Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Like, for example, if you if you look at Singapore.

• 7:54Antonio Gracias?

  Yeah.

• 7:54Chamath Palihapitiya?

  The Singaporean approach from Lee Kwan Yu was, let's create a government that is extremely empowered. But let's also make it quite small. Let's make them well compensated. And let's try to find sort of an elite cadre of folks. Is that approach possible in the United States? Or should we even think that we should try something like that?

• 8:19Antonio Gracias?

  I mean, Singapore is a unique a unique experiment in the world. It's also a place where you you know, you might not get caned if you drop chewing gum on the ground. Okay, so in America, we have a different a different level of, I would say, of freedom and rights. You know, we should strive for a civil service that is professional, well compensated, and mission oriented. And that mission orientation is serving the United States. And I think that gets back to, look, there are very good people. The one great thing, serve their country, that's why they're there. And it's I wouldn't make it I wouldn't make it about the money. I would make it about the mission. And we'll get the we get there are very good people that are there on mission. I met them. They are the ones pointing all this stuff out to us.

• 8:59Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Right.

• 8:59Antonio Gracias?

  Yeah.

• 9:00Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Can you talk about? You guys went on Fox the other day with the Doge team.

• 9:08David Friedberg?

  Big Balls.

• 9:09Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And Big Balls was there.

• 9:12David Friedberg?

  We were talking about this backstage. All of those guys were like 12 years old. What is it about the role, the opportunity, the way it was presented, that attracted this group of what were incredibly well-spoken, highly intelligent, clearly extraordinarily motivated individuals? It's the sort of caliber of talent that all of us aspire to hire and first of all, find, hire, and then they're on the mission. Is it Elon's inspiration and the reach he has that made this happen? Is this a particular moment in American history? Because I was looking at that table and I was thinking about like the founding fathers and the age of the founding fathers when they wrote the Declaration of Independence.

• 9:57David Friedberg?

  They were all super young and I was like, man, this is an opportunity to kind of rewrite how government operates in America today. But I was just struck by the age and the talent and how that came together and kind of where do they show up? Do they just apply out of the blue? And you guys, you guys have recruiters out there? I mean, where do these guys come from?

• 10:13Antonio Gracias?

  So we do have a recruiting team, actually. They're great. Barrish and Emily do the recruiting. And I'll tell you, I just want to stop for a second and say this. This is extraordinary. These people are extraordinary, all of them. The young people you saw at the table are extraordinary. They're amazing engineers and they're like any one of us would be, they're 10x engineers. We would all be thrilled to have in our companies. Elon obviously is an extraordinary leader, so they come for him. But I think they're really motivated by the mission. They're motivated by the idea that this is a moment where they can actually make an extraordinary difference to the country. And that is a flywheel that brings more people, right? So they bring their friends and it's, you know, you recruit other people in. And there are extraordinary, extraordinary people there, man. So you saw the people at the table. In that particular interview, I didn't say a word.

• 10:58Antonio Gracias?

  I literally, it wasn't the company, I actually didn't say anything.

• 11:00David Friedberg?

  It was you and the other guy.

• 11:01Antonio Gracias?

  Yeah, I didn't say anything. And the reason I didn't say anything was because I didn't need to. These guys are extraordinary. And like, you know, one of the men there spoke about this, Ethan. He is in my seventh class at Harvard. He dropped out of Harvard with two classes left.

• 11:14David Friedberg?

  Right.

• 11:14Antonio Gracias?

  To come do this. You know, Big Ball is an example. He's great. Ram, the guy I work with, I mean, I work with an engineer named Ram, he's great. And then, and I gotta tell you, there's a whole new strata of people that you didn't see there who are kind of in their 30s. I mean, I think my buddy Josh is working on the college stuff and a few of the things. These guys are, I mean, this guy was a senior executive, rising start KKR, left his job to come do this, okay? And there's... A numerous number of people like this. It's an extraordinary group. I feel honored to be part of it. I feel honored to work with them. It really is amazing.

• 11:48Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Can I tell you an answer to this?

• 11:49David Friedberg?

  Yeah, but I just want, like, do you think that this? Because these guys aren't going to work in the government forever. They're coming in, they're building something, they're activating, and they're moving on, back to their private life, like the founding fathers did at the start of the American government. Is that a better model for how government should operate rather than have career employees, career politicians, but treat it more like civil service, where everyone has some role that they should play at some point, like they do in Israel, where you have to, you know, go to the army for a few years and everyone is required, same in Singapore, actually.

• 12:21Antonio Gracias?

  Yeah.

• 12:22David Friedberg?

  Where everyone kind of has to go spend their time in the government, contribute, participate, but it doesn't become a mechanism where there's an incentive to grow it and get more money flowing through it, because that's how I individually, as a politician or employee, long-term would benefit from the government.

• 12:35Antonio Gracias?

  Yeah, I think it's a great point. It's a great point about Singapore, actually. I should have brought that up when Jamal asked the question. I think that we're proving there's two types of people in government today. There's careers, they call them, and politicals, right? I think there should be a third type, which is what you're talking about. People that are doing public service for a short duration, shorter duration, whether it's me, 130 as a SGE, or, you know, it's a couple of years as an engineer or something. I think a culture of this in America would be great for America. And great, not just for what it does to the government, but how it binds us as a people, right? Serving your country, going there, seeing how hard it is.

• 13:08David Friedberg?

  Right.

• 13:09Antonio Gracias?

  Seeing the way it works, understanding, really from the inside, what's going on. Listen, I had no idea.

• 13:13David Friedberg?

  It's like, what part of the government did you work in for your two-year service or your 15 months, right?

• 13:17Antonio Gracias?

  This would be a great thing for America and a great thing for our society.

• 13:21David Friedberg?

  Yeah.

• 13:22Antonio Gracias?

  Because that culture of public service, I think, would bring us closer together.

• 13:26David Friedberg?

  Jamal, you were going to say something about the town?

• 13:29Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I had, I mean, without saying too much, but you can guess. So, all of us have known Elon for a really long time. I also worked for another person that's of that same stature for a long time, and...

• 13:42Antonio Gracias?

  He's much shorter.

• 13:43Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Much shorter. And one of...

• 13:47Antonio Gracias?

  I say that, maybe it's a success.

• 13:49Chamath Palihapitiya?

  A very good friend of his came to see me recently for lunch, and he asked me this exact same question about Elon. He said... Like it was kind of like, just like, that's the question that they were grappling with. How is he able to find big balls? And so many big balls.

• 14:07Jason Calacanis?

  I actually can tell you. I've seen him find big balls, yeah. It's a serious strategy though. What I told him, he responds to emails or tweets. Twitter, people will say like, I have a solution to this.

• 14:22Jason Calacanis?

  We should do that. And then I've been CC'd on messages where he sends them to the right person. He has people to vet them and see if this idea actually works. And I think he's like very opportunistic and doesn't prejudge where you went to school, what your credentials is.

• 14:35Chamath Palihapitiya?

  It's almost the opposite. The less credentials you are, he has a predisposition to think you're more right.

• 14:39Jason Calacanis?

  Have you solved the problem?

• 14:40David Friedberg?

  By the way, this is a Peter Thiel.

• 14:42Chamath Palihapitiya?

  But my answer to this was, there's a lot of people that can be responsive in email. I think there's a handful of people that are real northern stars for technical talent. But he's the only one that when you walk in the room, he says, here's this mission. And it is so generally otherworldly. Nobody else can really say that. It is a flywheel, as you said, that is extremely unique. The fact that you can direct that entropy to the United States government, I think is a blessing. Now the question is, how do we follow up and make it attractive? Because to your point, I saw those kids on that interview. And any of my five kids, if they had done what they did, I would have been so proud. I was so impressed with these kids.

• 15:25Jason Calacanis?

  Impressive.

• 15:26Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And you're like, you're proud to be an American watching these kids.

• 15:29David Friedberg?

  You saw Elon's face nodding while they were speaking with a grin ear to ear. He was proud.

• 15:35Jason Calacanis?

  He is proud. He is proud. I think it's important for maybe people to sit back and say, this has all been done in 100 days from a cold start. It's not like, you brought in people, you brought in people who are like, I know the lay of the land here. It was like, we're going to figure this out from first principles, do zero-based budgeting, whatever it is, look at the data and see where it leads us. And I think one of the disturbing things about the data, most controversial issues in America today is the border. Yeah. And why did Biden let so many people through the border? It was kind of a question if it was even happening. Should we trust these border encounter numbers? It doesn't seem real. And there's a lack of trust in the government. One side is saying, hey, we let all these people in. There's 15, 20 million extra people here in order to vote Democratic.

• 16:20Jason Calacanis?

  Doesn't make a lot of sense to me since the Republicans have become the working party. But putting all that aside, you started looking at this. And we had a discussion privately about, hey, are these people signing up to vote? Because that would be an indicator that this, you know, theory that people were streaming across the border in order to vote. You found some people who were illegal immigrants who registered to vote? This is confounding.

• 16:49Antonio Gracias?

  Yes, this is actually true. So we have, we've sampled a handful of states. And in those handful of states, we found people registered to vote. And we have found people who actually voted. And this is all being done by sampling, okay? So we are sampling DHS data and then have to go to the voter rolls, check the voter rolls, and then check the give that to HSI, Home Security Investigations, who goes and checks the voter record by subpoena and the voter and the cards you sign when you vote. We had already three arrests, here in Florida, actually, and one indictment in New York.

• 17:26Jason Calacanis?

  And is that publicly known?

• 17:27Antonio Gracias?

  Yes, it's, it's, we posted it, the DOJ posted it.

• 17:29Jason Calacanis?

  But the media has not covered, like, I haven't seen much about it.

• 17:31David Friedberg?

  It's got light coverage.

• 17:32Jason Calacanis?

  So you're saying these are, these are three individuals who illegally secured, or no, legally secured a social security?

• 17:37Antonio Gracias?

  They legally secured social security numbers through the process we talked about last time, asylum or some special program or whatever. And they were given, you know, they given associated by filing a 765 and getting a work authorization. And they registered to vote and they actually voted in 2020 and/or 2024. Three have been arrested, I just want to say this carefully, three have been arrested. And one has been indicted. The one we indicted, I want to just stop on this guy for a minute. He's an Iraqi national. He voted in 2020 in New York. He went to prison for shooting somebody, shot some guy's hand off. Has charged, if I remember correctly, $60,000 or $70,000 of benefits through Medicaid.

• 18:19Antonio Gracias?

  And is, we think, is now in Iraq because he's active on his Facebook page. And the IP address is from Iraq. And credit to our friends at HSI, our partners HSI, and to DOJ for tracking this down. I gotta tell you guys, it's difficult, laborious work. It really is. But think about that a minute.

• 18:34David Friedberg?

  Is that the tip of the iceberg, Antonio, do you think? Or did you guys do a lot of mining and a lot of digging to come up with those four? How big of a magnitude of a problem do you think this is? What's your intuition tell you honestly right now about whether there's massive voter fraud or not?

• 18:51Antonio Gracias?

  Great question, and I want to be careful I answer it. I'm gonna leave the data. So I'm not leaving the data, and I'm entering the area of my opinion, which is what you're asking me. My opinion is, and actually, let me sit back and tell you what we did a second, and then tell you my opinion. We are sampling by hand. So when you say data mining, we're not mining. We're actually like pick and shovel, going into like by hand. This is not mechanized. There's no AI being applied. We're using SQL queries, okay?

• 19:19David Friedberg?

  You're literally pulling one by one.

• 19:20Antonio Gracias?

  We're literally sampling a name out of the work authorization database, DHS, checking that against the voter roll, and then have to go run it down to the state. Super laborious, okay? So with that in mind, my opinion is that this is the tip of the iceberg. How big the iceberg is, I don't know. And I don't want to speculate because I think it would be not the right thing to do at this moment. I think we'll have more data over time. But for sure, if we can sample out of a database, and it takes an engineer about a day to find 20-ish cases. So what DOJ asked for was 10 to 20 cases per state. It just gives you a sense of what's happening. It takes an engineer about a day to find 10 to 20 cases per state in sampling. That gives you an idea of how many there are, right? That's going on.

• 20:03Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Are you shocked that people don't care about this more?

• 20:07Antonio Gracias?

  I'm shocked. I think people really do care.

• 20:09Jason Calacanis?

  Should we care more?

• 20:10Antonio Gracias?

  Yes, well, yes, I want to separate the questions. I think people care more. My guess is everyone here cares a lot, okay? A lot about this. I think for some reason the news media doesn't care more. Now, should you care? Yes. You know, there's this idea like it's always a little bit of fraud, it's pervasive, we should just, it's not a big deal. Wrong. Here's the reality. Every vote that is cast illegally in America nullifies the vote of an American citizen. It is your constitutional right to vote in America. And if we don't have a zero defect system, we are violating your constitutional rights. And I will tell you, you deserve, the American public deserves, that we strive for a zero defect system. Right? We make metal devices in America with a zero defect system.

• 20:51Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 20:51Antonio Gracias?

  We shouldn't make votes with a zero defect system. If we don't strive for a zero defect system, we will get a lot more fraud.

• 20:56Jason Calacanis?

  Mm-hmm.

• 20:57Antonio Gracias?

  This is why the real idea is so important. We should strive for this. And it doesn't matter if it's one vote.

• 21:00Jason Calacanis?

  It's easily solved with the last 15 states that don't require voter ID to simply do that, and that would pretty much end this debate, I think.

• 21:09Antonio Gracias?

  I mean, I, well, I want to tell you, there are states that do require ID. I think real ID will solve it. Because real, one of the things that our engineers are building, and it was already there, but they're making it, they're cleaning up, making it work properly, is a thing called SAVE. There's a database called SAVE that is available in the states. In the Biden administration, they raised the price, when I think about a dollar, an API call, to $3 and change the API call, and all the states stopped using it. SAVE is a database that has the actual citizenship data for the entire country. Okay? We're cleaning up now and making the actual UI much better. If the states have real ID, and they use SAVE, you'll solve this problem. And I cannot understand why a state would not do this.

• 21:51Jason Calacanis?

  Whose decision would it be to just change the cost of that API?

• 21:55Antonio Gracias?

  So, great question, Chamath. We, the Secretary of Homeland Security, I want to thank her, Secretary Noem, has just signed a memo, a policy memo, to make it free.

• 22:05Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, why is there a charge anyway? It doesn't make any sense to me.

• 22:08Antonio Gracias?

  Yes.

• 22:09Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah. That's the right thing to do.

• 22:11Antonio Gracias?

  Secretary Noem made this free.

• 22:12Jason Calacanis?

  Your parents, I know your dad is an immigrant.

• 22:14Antonio Gracias?

  My parents are both immigrants.

• 22:15Jason Calacanis?

  Both immigrants. Two immigrants sitting here.

• 22:17Antonio Gracias?

  My mother came here, that's speaking English.

• 22:18Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah. And so, to be clear. Pick me, pick me, me too. You're an immigrant, also an immigrant, seventh generation, nobody's...

• 22:25Antonio Gracias?

  Which place doesn't fit? I don't know, who's not, is it, oh, Jason?

• 22:28Jason Calacanis?

  Who do you think? Seventh generation. I'm the all-in presidential candidate by default.

• 22:34Jason Calacanis?

  I don't know.

• 22:36Antonio Gracias?

  You're from on Olympus, though.

• 22:37Jason Calacanis?

  Yes, yeah, and the five points. But how should immigration work in this country? You know, we've talked about it on our pod, the point-based system, et cetera. We still want immigration. We need high-skilled immigration. We talked to President Trump about that. He said he was committed to giving people green cards who have diplomas. And this is a little out of your purview, but just how does Antonio Gracias feel about immigration, you know, deporting people, you know, deporting people with maybe less due process than maybe some of us are comfortable with? What do you think we should be doing here as a country?

• 23:14Antonio Gracias?

  There's a lot in that question.

• 23:15Jason Calacanis?

  Yes.

• 23:16Antonio Gracias?

  So, look, I'm an enormous fan of immigration. I mean, you will not find a guy who's more pro-immigration than I am, because my parents immigrants. They came here with nothing and built a life, and I am the American dream. And I'm so grateful this country puts them for my family. You won't find it. I am so grateful this country. It has been great for us, okay? And for all of you. The reality is that we need... Thank you.

• 23:46Antonio Gracias?

  American GDP is simply the function of number of people working times productivity. We have 7 million job openings, roughly, in America. We need people to work.

• 23:56Jason Calacanis?

  Yes.

• 23:57Antonio Gracias?

  This is the reality. The system should very simply be, there's a skilled immigration group, and we figure out what that should be, what jobs you want. And by the way, America is the best place to live in the world. We all know that. I believe that. If we make this easy, they will come, right? No problem. And I think there's broader meaning to that. We also need labor. We do. Our farmers need labor, need labor in the food industry, restaurants, et cetera. I think there should be both high-end skilled immigration, and there should be a very sensible program for unskilled labor, a work permit program.

• 24:30Jason Calacanis?

  We've got that H2A program.

• 24:32Antonio Gracias?

  There is the H2A program. I will tell you, these programs, I've mapped the entire system now, they go from DHS to State Department to Labor. They're very disconnected, and they're hard to manage. So, we are going to work on this. One of the things we're going to work on and hopefully leave behind is both a sensible answer to the legal problem and a sensible answer to the legal problem. It's very important the team working on this.

• 24:55Jason Calacanis?

  I think this is like, super important for Trump's administration, because there seems to be a bit of a, I don't want to call it a civil war, but... heated debate internally between people like yourself and Elon and others who believe immigration is critical and then other people who just want to lock the border and deport 20 million people. Steve, I'll call this Steve Bannon camp. He's not in the administration, clearly.

• 25:15Antonio Gracias?

  Locking the borders, I want to be clear on this something. I don't believe in open borders.

• 25:18Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 25:19Antonio Gracias?

  When a country opens a border, this country cedes its sovereignty.

• 25:22Jason Calacanis?

  Yes, you have to close the border.

• 25:23Antonio Gracias?

  Period. You have to have a border that is controlled.

• 25:25Jason Calacanis?

  Agree on that, yeah.

• 25:26Antonio Gracias?

  That doesn't mean you shouldn't have legal immigration.

• 25:28Jason Calacanis?

  Right.

• 25:29Antonio Gracias?

  It should be a proper process where people can come in that are great for the country and they believe in our values and they should have a chance to become citizens if they believe in our values, support our country.

• 25:37Jason Calacanis?

  I really hope that you guys work this out and can have a positive influence like you've had with Doge on the administration and really work on this one, which is sensible, kind, you know, empathetic immigration.

• 25:48Antonio Gracias?

  Yep.

• 25:49Jason Calacanis?

  Because you're all immigrants.

• 25:50Antonio Gracias?

  I mean, the values I set for our team, I'll just tell you, the value, execution values are focus, intensity, and discipline. I added a fourth value here to our team for our team, compassion.

• 25:59Jason Calacanis?

  Yes.

• 26:00David Friedberg?

  Antonio, I just want, and I want anyone else to join me in saying, look, you're a successful, wealthy, incredibly handsome. handsome man.

• 26:08Antonio Gracias?

  That's the best part.

• 26:09David Friedberg?

  But like, I know the work you're doing is super hard. We talked backstage about how hard it's been. I just want to honestly say, as an American, thank you for the work you're doing.

• 26:17Jason Calacanis?

  Well done.

• 26:18David Friedberg?

  Thank you, bro.

• 26:21Jason Calacanis?

  All right. Thanks to my friend, Antonio Gracias, for joining us and thanks to you, the audience, for tuning in for that important discussion about Doge. If you want to come to our next event, it's the All In Summit in Los Angeles. Fourth year for All In Summit. Go to allin.com/events to apply. A very special thanks to our new partner, OKX, the new money app. OKX was the sponsor of the McLaren F1 team, which won the race in Miami. Thanks to Hyder and his team, an amazing partner and an amazing team. We really enjoyed spending time with you. And OKX launched their new crypto exchange here in the US. If you love All In, go check them out. And a special thanks to our friends at Circle. They're the team behind USDC, yes, your favorite

• 27:06Jason Calacanis?

  stablecoin in the world. USDC is a fully backed digital dollar.

• 27:11Jason Calacanis?

  One for one for USD. It's built for speed, safety and scale. They just announced the Circle Payments Network. This is enterprise-grade infrastructure that bridges the gap between the digital economy and outdated financial rails. Go check out USDC for all your stablecoin needs. And special thanks to my friends, including Shane over at Polymarket, Google Cloud, Solana and BVNK. We couldn't have done it without y'all. Thank you so much.

• 27:43Speaker 05

  Rain Man David Sacks.

• 27:47Speaker 06

  And instead, we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it. Love you, S.

• 27:52Speaker 05

  Queen of Kewah.

• 28:00Speaker 05

  Besties are gone. That's my dog taking a piss in your driveway. Winner of the game.

• 28:08Speaker 07

  Oh, man.

• 28:11Speaker 07

  We should all just get a room and just have one big huge orgy because they're all just it's like this like sexual tension that we just need to release somehow.

• 28:19Speaker 05

  What your feet be? What your feet? What? We need to get merch. Besties are back.