E139: Recapping Chamath's wedding, VC surplus, unions vs Hollywood, room-temp superconductors & more

(0:00) All-In in Italy!: Recapping Chamath's wedding (11:55) Discourse around obesity and weight loss in the US (21:56) Are there too many VCs? (38:18) Actors/Writers unions vs. Corporate Hollywood, endgame for the modern Hollywood machine (54:07) Equity participations vs. unions, ownership upside vs. downside protections (1:05:04) Potential impact of room-temp superconductors Special thanks to our Italian audio/video team!: https://twitter.com/domdalmatico https://www.mattiacaruso.com Follow the besties: https://twitter.com/chamath https://linktr.ee/calacanis https://twitter.com/DavidSacks https://twitter.com/friedberg Follow the pod: https://twitter.com/theallinpod https://linktr.ee/allinpodcast Intro Music Credit: https://rb.gy/tppkzl https://twitter.com/yung_spielburg Intro Video Credit: https://twitter.com/TheZachEffect Referenced in the show: https://twitter.com/DavidSacks/status/1684176015948488704 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPelOnd7Sik https://www.vice.com/en/article/4a3az9/venture-capital-vcs-existential-too-many https://twitter.com/jason/status/1681985828820766720 https://twitter.com/chamath/status/1679765658517610496 https://twitter.com/chamath/status/1679935918164135936 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2307.12008.pdf

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Love you guys. Hey, if you guys are around, you know.

• 0:04David Friedberg?

  Anyone want to get a glass of wine and some pasta?

• 0:07Speaker 00

  Maybe we'll get a glass of wine later, maybe next week or something, who knows? Maybe we all get together in person, have a glass of wine.

• 0:12Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I see you soon. I love you guys.

• 0:14Speaker 00

  Ciao, ciao.

• 0:15Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I love you besties. Ciao. You're about to come to Italy and basically you're gonna gain 15 pounds for sure.

• 0:22David Sacks?

  Okay, so we were there in Italy.

• 0:24Speaker 00

  This is a long time ago. Is this when we were in Venice?

• 0:26Chamath Palihapitiya?

  The quality of Italian white wine is outrageous.

• 0:30Speaker 00

  Really?

• 0:30Chamath Palihapitiya?

  It's outrageous.

• 0:32Speaker 00

  Do they have a men's bikini for you for when we're in Italy?

• 0:35Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I would buy that.

• 0:36Speaker 00

  Let's just say thank you to the amazing people of Italy for having the greatest country for adults to go on vacation in.

• 0:44David Friedberg?

  What an incredible country.

• 0:48Speaker 00

  Here we go. In three, two, hey, ooh, ah, yeah.

• 0:54David Sacks?

  Someone's going through puberty.

• 0:55Speaker 00

  Hey, everybody, welcome. Motorcycle.

• 0:57David Sacks?

  Try it again.

• 0:58Speaker 00

  Three, two, hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of the All In Podcast. We are here in beautiful Portofino, Italy, and we have found a new bestie. Introduce yourself. Natalie is your name?

• 1:11Speaker 04

  That is my name, and don't be surprised by my surname.

• 1:14Speaker 00

  Ah, you've got a surname. What is the surname?

• 1:18Speaker 04

  Paliangritia. No, no, sorry, Palihapatia.

• 1:21Speaker 00

  Palihapatia, so you're cousins, apparently, and you run a biotech business, I understand, here in Italy?

• 1:27Speaker 04

  In my spare time, when somebody else does and consume the life out of me.

• 1:32Speaker 00

  Got it. Okay, so you're dealing drugs in Italy, and welcome to the All In Pod. In all seriousness, we are here in Italy because Chamath and Natalie got married. Big round of applause. Very nice. And we decided we'd tape an episode very quickly. But tell us, what was it like at the wedding, marrying Chamath Palihapatia? Tell us about the wedding.

• 2:02Speaker 04

  It was a lot of work and Chamath was, as you can expect, completely utterly useless. Yes, we've seen this. In fact, counterproductive. He showed up though. At times, really, really frustrating. Yes. But I love him nonetheless, so here we are, very happy.

• 2:23Chamath Palihapitiya?

  This is the moment I would like to take credit for 30% of the wedding.

• 2:27Speaker 04

  Ah.

• 2:27Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And then a number that you can't dispute, you don't really know what it means.

• 2:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:31Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And then everybody ends up thanking you effusively.

• 2:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:34Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Because they're like the 30% that they love the most, that was me.

• 2:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, if you want to make an estimate, 20, 30% chance is, you can't go wrong. Friedberg and Sachs are with us, the Don. Sachs, you had a lot of clandestine meetings here. Are we any closer to peace in Ukraine, Russia? I saw you talking to some Russian emissaries. You've been on the continent for a full month. Tell us.

• 2:55David Friedberg?

  Where did you go for 12 hours yesterday?

• 2:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know that you've been on some of these crazy yachts out here trying to broker peace. How close are we and how are you enjoying your time in Europe this summer?

• 3:04David Sacks?

  I don't think we're too close, but let me say a word about this happy couple here. So Natalie is brilliant and unstoppable. Chamath is superficial and plastic. So, this was like the wedding of Oppenheimer and Barbie.

• 3:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:21David Sacks?

  And in that analogy, Chamath, you're Barbie.

• 3:25Speaker 00

  Yes, absolutely. Lots of substance and fire over here and complete narcissism and plastic over here. Also the genitalia, the same size, they just can't, very smoothed over, just barely a bump. Yeah, okay.

• 3:39Speaker 04

  I'm gonna leave you guys.

• 3:40Speaker 00

  Okay, well, we'll do a show. Natalie, congratulations, we love you sister.

• 3:44Speaker 04

  Congratulations. Thank you, J. Call, because you celebrated our...

• 3:47Speaker 00

  Okay, that's enough. Enough, enough, okay, here she goes.

• 3:49Speaker 04

  I wasn't talking about Chamath, so clearly that's...

• 3:51Speaker 00

  Oh yeah, so I cut you off. Ah, oh here, here we go, here we go. What a great, great, uh, week we've had here. Lots of friends came in.

• 4:02Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Lots of friends, lots of special friends.

• 4:04David Friedberg?

  Lots of poker.

• 4:04Speaker 00

  Lots of friends, lots of poker.

• 4:06David Friedberg?

  Lots of poker players that weren't invited to the wedding, but were invited to the poker game.

• 4:12Speaker 00

  I mean.

• 4:12David Friedberg?

  I mean, we walked into the poker game last night and there were all these guys that I didn't see at the wedding. And you invited these guys.

• 4:19Speaker 00

  No, no, no.

• 4:19David Friedberg?

  To come to your poker game.

• 4:20Chamath Palihapitiya?

  No, let's be honest.

• 4:21David Friedberg?

  But they didn't get invited to the wedding.

• 4:22Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Let's, let's be honest, I think it was the most unbelievably eclectic guest list.

• 4:26Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 4:27Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Of any wedding that's ever happened.

• 4:28David Friedberg?

  That's very true.

• 4:29Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I mean, literally, it's like a two by two matrix of villainy.

• 4:34Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 4:34Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Wealth, fame, and infamy.

• 4:36Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 4:37Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I mean, you had every quadrant covered.

• 4:39Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 4:39Chamath Palihapitiya?

  It was incredible.

• 4:40David Friedberg?

  Guy and I were joking, it's like walking into the bar on Tatooine.

• 4:44Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 4:44David Friedberg?

  Star Wars.

• 4:48David Friedberg?

  Got smoking hookah in the corner.

• 4:49Speaker 00

  We don't serve your guys, we don't serve your guys.

• 4:52David Friedberg?

  People chained up, I mean, it was a whole rigmarole last night.

• 4:55David Sacks?

  Well, I, I could tell that when I was doing my toast, which Shmat told me, no holds barred, just go for it.

• 5:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:01David Sacks?

  As my toast, he really meant roast.

• 5:02Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Roast.

• 5:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, he roasted.

• 5:04David Friedberg?

  The Italians did not get the jokes, by the way.

• 5:06David Sacks?

  Yeah, so like half the audience was laughing, the poker guys were laughing.

• 5:10David Friedberg?

  Yeah.

• 5:10David Sacks?

  And then the family section, not laughing.

• 5:13Speaker 00

  No, no, I think a lot of them got the jokes and they were, they were in on it, but, uh, what an amazing week we've had here, um, and thank you for hosting us, Shmat.

• 5:23Chamath Palihapitiya?

  No, you're welcome.

• 5:23Speaker 00

  It was absolutely wonderful.

• 5:25Chamath Palihapitiya?

  This really is in so many ways.

• 5:26David Friedberg?

  By the way, we should cut in some shots in the video on where we're sitting right now, this incredible beach club.

• 5:30Speaker 00

  We're looking out here on Paragi, right?

• 5:32David Sacks?

  People sleuthed it out, I posted a photo of us just meeting out there, doing our little board meeting, and people immediately sleuthed out, you're at Langostria. Or what's it?

• 5:41Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Langostria Paragi.

• 5:42David Sacks?

  Langostria.

• 5:43Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Yeah.

• 5:44David Sacks?

  I guess famous red beach restaurant.

• 5:46Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I mean, Langostria has these two incredible restaurants in Milano, three, they're just... Top of the top and they have this incredible beach restaurant here and it's the hotel or sorry It's the restaurant that is beside the beach club that's also owned by the Splendido where we're

• 6:01David Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 6:02Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Where you guys are all staying. So yeah, it's been it's been an amazing couple of days.

• 6:06David Sacks?

  This little block is called Paragi?

• 6:08Chamath Palihapitiya?

  This part is Paragi and then if you go just a little bit further you're in Portofino proper.

• 6:13David Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 6:13Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Yeah.

• 6:14David Sacks?

  Amazing.

• 6:14Speaker 00

  Wonderful food.

• 6:16Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Incredible food.

• 6:17Speaker 00

  Unbelievable. We've eaten like kings.

• 6:19Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Yeah.

• 6:20Speaker 00

  And queens as the case may be and just the hospitality in Italy is amazing. One of my favorite places to go.

• 6:26Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I just want to say to all of you guys and to all of our friends, I mean you guys literally flew halfway around the world for three days.

• 6:34David Friedberg?

  Yeah, you did ruin all our summer plans.

• 6:35Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I mean, it was incredible and frankly, I picked the we picked the three worst days, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.

• 6:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, if you had a job.

• 6:42Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Everybody had to work. A certain person had two rooms rented at the Splendido just for meetings and he would just be running back meetings and then trying to go to the I mean, it's incredible. You guys, it really means a lot to me.

• 6:52David Sacks?

  I think this whole thing was a conspiracy to convene a high stakes poker game. You knew you were spending the summer in Italy. There is no poker here. And you're like, how do I get the poker game to come to Italy?

• 7:04David Friedberg?

  He probably he netted a profit to cover the wedding.

• 7:06Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Not, no, not to cover the wedding, but I did. I did win a 1.2 million dollar pot from

• 7:11David Friedberg?

  That was crazy.

• 7:12Chamath Palihapitiya?

  That was crazy.

• 7:12David Sacks?

  My favorite poker story is you got a call out of the blue.

• 7:16Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Oh.

• 7:16David Sacks?

  I'm in the neighborhood.

• 7:17Chamath Palihapitiya?

  X is the best. I get a text.

• 7:19David Friedberg?

  Oh, my God.

• 7:20Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Need room Splendido. At like 2:00 in the morning and I was I looked at my phone and I'm like, why is texting me at 2:00 in the morning?

• 7:28David Friedberg?

  Yeah.

• 7:28Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Need room Splendido. And I said, it's Chamath. Is everything okay? Do you need any help? Need room Splendido. And I said, I'm not your fucking travel coordinator. And he goes, can you help me get a room at the Splendido hotel? I said, what? You're here? And so I said, well, why don't you just meander into our game?

• 7:43David Friedberg?

  Yeah.

• 7:44Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And so actually came to the wedding.

• 7:45David Friedberg?

  Was he randomly in the neighborhood?

• 7:47Chamath Palihapitiya?

  He was in the area.

• 7:49Speaker 00

  Well, he was spending a night in so he thought he would hop over here.

• 7:51David Friedberg?

  No, stop.

• 7:54Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Such a bad joke.

• 7:56Speaker 00

  I stole that joke from you.

• 7:57David Sacks?

  You stole it from me?

• 7:58Speaker 00

  I stole it. Oh, that's how it works in Hollywood, okay? There's a little backstory to all this. What happened was Chamath told me in the spring, hey, listen, J Cal, I'm finally, I'm so excited, I'm gonna marry Nat. And I said, oh, that's great. You had the kids and now you're getting married. It's not the traditional way to do it, but congratulations. And he said, yeah, we're gonna have like a little thing with our families in Italy. Very bespoke, the kids, parents, that's it. And then, you know, back in Silicon Valley in the Bay Area, we'll have a backyard party for everybody else. And I said, great, let me know where in Italy we're going. And Nat said, amore, it's just gonna be the immediate family. And I said, great, where am I going? Tell me the location. And if you need an officiant, I'm in. And then a week later, we get an email.

• 8:43Speaker 00

  Nat and Chamath discussed it and they said, you know what? J Cal's right, we should invite everybody to Italy. And so, thanks for making that decision.

• 8:52Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Oh, my God, thank you guys for coming. Honestly, it was a dream.

• 8:55David Friedberg?

  But he didn't tell anyone J Cal was gonna officiate. So we're sitting there, Italian style, for like two hours, assembling for the wedding. Nothing happens. You're all just standing around, waiting for something to happen. And then Chamath comes in, Natalie comes in, beautiful, dressed amazing, music is incredible. And they sit there for another 10 minutes. And they turn around and they say, the officiant, we just got a letter, the officiant is sick. We need someone, we need someone to step in. And then J Cal pops up in the back. I got it.

• 9:23Speaker 00

  I'll officiate.

• 9:24David Friedberg?

  Knocks the Italian royalty to the right and the left. Flouts his way through the audience, makes his way to the top. Pulls out his American bow tie or whatever he had and says, let's do this. And then we had J Cal officiate.

• 9:35David Sacks?

  You did.

• 9:36David Friedberg?

  For the wedding, in a very J Cal way.

• 9:37David Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 9:38Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Were you surprised?

• 9:39David Sacks?

  Yeah, I was surprised.

• 9:39Chamath Palihapitiya?

  You were surprised?

• 9:40David Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 9:40Chamath Palihapitiya?

  A lot of people were surprised.

• 9:42David Sacks?

  You got me.

• 9:43David Friedberg?

  Because your original email said, J Cal's gonna officiate, but then we heard nothing for two and a half months.

• 9:49David Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 9:49David Friedberg?

  And no one really knew and, but it was a big secret, right?

• 9:52Speaker 00

  We kept it a big secret, wanted it to be a surprise. And it was just the vows and the poetry.

• 9:58Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Oh, the poetry.

• 9:59Speaker 00

  That Nat and Chamath shared was amazing.

• 10:02Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Amore, amore.

• 10:03David Friedberg?

  Don't make her, don't make her do that.

• 10:05Speaker 00

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 10:05Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Can you do a dramatic reading of the poem that I wrote for you?

• 10:11Speaker 00

  This was, uh...

• 10:12David Friedberg?

  Chamath wrote a poem.

• 10:13Speaker 00

  Roses are red.

• 10:15Chamath Palihapitiya?

  But do the setup that comes before.

• 10:17Speaker 00

  Well, so, this... The setup was that Nat would read Chamath's poems and Chamath would read Nat's poems. And so Nat had this incredible, uh, Poiolo Quello poems incredibly well thought out.

• 10:32David Friedberg?

  Nat's turn.

• 10:32Speaker 00

  And, um, then Chamath wrote a poem from anonymous that he found, um, at a rest stop on the 280, written on the inside of the, uh, bathroom stall. Roses are red.

• 10:44David Friedberg?

  No, no, no.

• 10:46Speaker 00

  Violets are...

• 10:47David Friedberg?

  No, go, go ahead, go ahead.

• 10:48Speaker 00

  Okay. You remember it? You should have it committed to memory.

• 10:52Speaker 04

  Let me think. Roses are red. Pickles are green. I love your legs. And what's in between?

• 11:02Speaker 00

  Oh, God.

• 11:03David Friedberg?

  Oh, God. It's embarrassing.

• 11:05Speaker 00

  It was so embarrassing.

• 11:06David Friedberg?

  And she had to read this.

• 11:07Speaker 00

  She literally just dropped.

• 11:08David Friedberg?

  In front of all of the Italian aristocrats.

• 11:11Speaker 00

  And the Americans, and the Americans.

• 11:13David Friedberg?

  And the Americans all rolled laughing.

• 11:15Speaker 00

  Horrific.

• 11:16David Friedberg?

  It really was like a far-off tattoo.

• 11:18Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Her? Her, her first poem was a sonnet from William Shakespeare. My first poem was Beyonce's Cuff It.

• 11:26David Friedberg?

  Yeah.

• 11:27Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Where, where the last line is, "Will you sit on top of me?" Which she has to say, looking at her dad.

• 11:32Speaker 00

  It was so awkward.

• 11:33David Friedberg?

  It was so awkward.

• 11:35Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Then her second poem was, uh, something by Gregory Hoffman.

• 11:40Speaker 00

  Who was it?

• 11:41Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Gregory Hoffman, I think it was. Something Hoffman.

• 11:44Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 11:45Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And then mine was this anonymous thing. And then her third was E. Cummings and mine was Dr. Seuss.

• 11:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, charming.

• 11:51David Friedberg?

  Seuss was nice.

• 11:52Chamath Palihapitiya?

  But Dr. Seuss, Daniel Hoffman.

• 11:54Speaker 00

  Yes. Well, we had a great time. There's been a lot of news.

• 11:57David Sacks?

  And J. Allen, you got here early, right? Weren't you like camping along the coastlines?

• 12:00Speaker 00

  Yes, I went to a hotel.

• 12:03David Sacks?

  I went camping. He decided to bring San Francisco to this beautiful, pristine.

• 12:08Speaker 00

  Yes, defecating everywhere.

• 12:10David Sacks?

  Leaving a trail of needles in his wake. Ozempic needles.

• 12:13Speaker 00

  Ozempic needles. Wegovy.

• 12:14David Friedberg?

  Plastic trash.

• 12:16Speaker 00

  I did post a thirst trap. I'm very proud. I'm down 41 pounds from the peak. 20 pounds with hiking and using the fasting app that Kevin Rose built and then the other half, zero. Great fasting app. And the other half was Ozempic would go.

• 12:32Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I don't understand. What does an app do to help you fast? You just fast?

• 12:35Speaker 00

  Uh, you click a button.

• 12:36Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Do you eat the app?

• 12:37Speaker 00

  It gives an animation and then it counts down the clock.

• 12:40David Sacks?

  When you're trying to decide whether to eat or not, you push a button. Should I eat or not? And it says no.

• 12:44Speaker 00

  Yeah. It shows you a picture of yourself. Just a mirror.

• 12:48Chamath Palihapitiya?

  A fat picture?

• 12:48Speaker 00

  It shows you a fat picture of yourself. Yeah.

• 12:50Chamath Palihapitiya?

  A fat picture.

• 12:50Speaker 00

  That's what I did. I took a picture of myself like Fat Jason and I just, every time I open the refrigerator, it's there.

• 12:56Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Can I ask you a question?

• 12:57Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 12:57Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Is it, is it, are we not allowed to talk about like fatness now or?

• 13:03Speaker 00

  I, I have strong feelings on this. I think when I, I ran marathons my whole life. I was very schveld, 165 pounds until I was 32. And then I added two or three pounds until you guys knew me. And I hit 213 at my peak. I'm 171 now, 172. And, um, you know, I wish more people would have done an intervention. You were very clear with me. Hey, you gotta lose weight.

• 13:27Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Oh my God, I have to tell.

• 13:28Speaker 00

  No, no, no, I don't want to do weight.

• 13:29Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I'm telling the story. You can't fucking spike the story. I'm telling the story.

• 13:32Speaker 00

  I gotta spike the story. It's too much.

• 13:33Chamath Palihapitiya?

  No, you can't spike the story. Now, this is your wedding present to me.

• 13:36Speaker 00

  Okay, thank you.

• 13:37Chamath Palihapitiya?

  J Cal, J Cal is bordering on morbidly obese.

• 13:42Speaker 00

  I was two, this is when I was 213. And your health goal? 5'9" on a good day. 5' and a half.

• 13:47David Sacks?

  On a good day.

• 13:48Chamath Palihapitiya?

  By the way, for all, for all these people on Twitter, everybody who, who meets me always says, oh, you look so much shorter on camera. And maybe it's because I slouch, but I'm six foot two, just in case everybody's curious.

• 13:58Speaker 00

  On a good day.

• 13:59Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Anyways, J Cal, J Cal is, is bordering on morbidly obese. So I make a weight bed with him.

• 14:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was 213 and I said, I can get to 193.

• 14:08Chamath Palihapitiya?

  One, yeah, 193. And I was like, I'll give you 10K a pound or something.

• 14:12Speaker 00

  Whatever. It's a hundred K bed.

• 14:13Chamath Palihapitiya?

  It was a hundred thousand dollar bed.

• 14:15Speaker 00

  And I hit it.

• 14:15Chamath Palihapitiya?

  But it's a year, he had a year. He had a year. A year goes by, I put it in my calendar. And what I do is, I schedule the poker game.

• 14:25Speaker 00

  Uh oh.

• 14:25Chamath Palihapitiya?

  For the day before, knowing that we're gonna play through midnight. So I'm like, oh, I'm gonna set this guy up. So I waited a whole year.

• 14:33Speaker 00

  Unbelievable.

• 14:34Chamath Palihapitiya?

  We play poker, the clock strikes midnight, and he had been eating pizza and ice cream.

• 14:39Speaker 00

  Drinking, ice cream.

• 14:40Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And I'm watching him the whole time, like, I'm gonna win this hundred thousand dollars.

• 14:43Speaker 00

  I'd never seen a spread like this.

• 14:44Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And then I say, hey, it's time, it's 12:01, it's time for the weight.

• 14:49Chamath Palihapitiya?

  He says, what weight bet? And I said, motherfucker, you made a weight bet with me for a hundred thousand dollars a year ago.

• 14:54Speaker 00

  I have been 192, 193 for months. I have hit the thing, I, I.

• 14:59Chamath Palihapitiya?

  So he says, he starts panicking.

• 15:01Speaker 00

  Cause I weigh myself in the morning.

• 15:03Chamath Palihapitiya?

  He says he's panicking, he says, okay, give me a few minutes. He runs into my child's bedroom and takes a shit.

• 15:10Speaker 00

  No, I just took a leak, I took a leak.

• 15:12Chamath Palihapitiya?

  He tried to lose the weight. He tried to lose the weight at mid, who can poo at midnight? Nobody can poo at midnight.

• 15:19Speaker 00

  Anyway, I get on the scale, I'm 195. But he wants me to take all my clothes off, I'm like, no, I'm not taking my clothes off.

• 15:26Chamath Palihapitiya?

  We have to do the weigh-in. Now, in fairness to J Cal, I did not pre-agree that I had to, that I could pick the time. So he says, I have until midnight.

• 15:34Speaker 00

  Which is true.

• 15:35Chamath Palihapitiya?

  So I said, okay, fine. He goes home.

• 15:38Speaker 00

  Goes home, I go in the sauna.

• 15:39Chamath Palihapitiya?

  He does not eat, he puts on a sweatsuit.

• 15:42Speaker 00

  I go for a run, I'm like Rocky around San Francisco.

• 15:44Chamath Palihapitiya?

  He sweats for four hours, he gets like a tenth of a pound under before midnight.

• 15:49Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 15:50Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And then he's like, you owe me a hundred thousand dollars.

• 15:51Speaker 00

  No.

• 15:51Chamath Palihapitiya?

  But then he was kind. He said, look, put me in the mini one for one drop.

• 15:56Speaker 00

  The one drop, and we'll both go, and we'll pool it. We'll chop it up, we had a great time.

• 16:00Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Anyway, J Cal lost in the first eight hands.

• 16:02Speaker 00

  That's not true, I lasted longer than you.

• 16:04Chamath Palihapitiya?

  A hundred K, I should have just, he did it off.

• 16:07Speaker 00

  Burned it.

• 16:08Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Okay, back to you, but that was the weight bet story.

• 16:10Speaker 00

  But I would say, in terms of weight, it is pernicious in America. I don't think we should be celebrating it or tolerating it. I think we should be compassionate. I think Ozempic and Wegovy. Our incredible tools and Manjaro. I didn't talk about it for the first year. David, you've done it as well and you've been honest that you've tried Wegovy or whatever, and you lost a lot of weight, so congratulations. These guys have been skinny forever. But I think, take it seriously. It takes a lot of discipline, but it can be done. And I encourage people, the gains I've gotten from being 40 pounds lighter have been tremendous. I feel great. My energy level's different. My thinking is different. My sleep's better. Everything's great. And so I just want to be around for a long time so that we can do 1,000 episodes of the

• 16:55Speaker 00

  show for you and the fans. And yeah, being fat sucks. The end.

• 17:01Chamath Palihapitiya?

  But do you think it's being normalized? And do you think that that's healthy?

• 17:05Speaker 00

  What do you think?

• 17:06David Friedberg?

  I think...

• 17:08Speaker 00

  Right into the microphone.

• 17:09David Friedberg?

  No one chooses obesity. Obesity is a struggle, just like diabetes. No one chooses diabetes. Diabetes is a struggle. I've done some work, made some investments, been on the board of some companies that have been involved in trying to address the needs in this space. And one of the things that we've learned a lot about is how much of a social stigma it feels. People that are struggling with obesity and struggling with diabetes don't feel comfortable actively talking about it. Because they hold a deep amount of shame about it. They recognize that there's something deeply unhealthy about it. And they feel deep shame because they're often portrayed as having the choice and making the decisions that got them to this point. And the truth is, we live in a world with extraordinary abundance in the first world.

• 17:54David Friedberg?

  We live in a world with extraordinary opportunities for low-cost calorie consumption. We find a lot of joy in our lifestyles. And ultimately, living a happy life can lead people to a very sad place. And so generally, I would say that this is not something that should be stigmatized in an open way. It should be treated with compassion, but it should be spoken about openly. Which is that there is a challenge and a struggle that people have, and we need to help. And everyone needs to kind of be cognizant of the fact.

• 18:24Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I think we're normalizing it, and I think it's wrong. When I first came to Canada, you see the pictures when I was like, fresh off the boat, that's what we used to call immigrants. I was real thin skinny. Real thin. And then after a year of eating whatever food it was that we could afford, I became really fat. And you could see it in the pictures. And I was fat. All through my grade school, I was a little skinny, skinny fat in the face, but basically fat all through high school. And then I finally started working out and taking care of myself. And it had a huge impact on my self-esteem and my self-confidence. It had a huge impact on my health.

• 19:02Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 19:03Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I saw it basically kill my father. It's given 7, 11 of my aunts and uncles diabetes. So I think that like, all of this normalization is unhealthy because it actually is killing people.

• 19:15Speaker 00

  What I learned from the dieting is portion control in America is just out of control. It is the wrong portion sizes. So.

• 19:23Chamath Palihapitiya?

  You see it here.

• 19:24Speaker 00

  And you see it here. When you eat here, here's a little tuna, here's a small pasta. You know, here's some cheese and some grapes for dessert. You're done. And so, once I got my portion control, I was fine. Snacking also, but I just wish anybody who's suffering from it, um, you know, work with your doctors, work with nutritionists.

• 19:41Chamath Palihapitiya?

  You were overweight too for a long time.

• 19:42Speaker 00

  Were you? Free bird?

• 19:44David Friedberg?

  Yeah, I, um.

• 19:46Speaker 00

  What were you overweight from?

• 19:47David Friedberg?

  I, I grew up not eating well. I was overweight in college.

• 19:51Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Right in the microphone.

• 19:52David Friedberg?

  College is when I really started to get exercise actively. And because it was never part of my upbringing as a kid was like, eat well, get exercise. I, I was very much self-taught. I learned how to cook and learned a lot about nutrition on my own. Um, and you know, look, I, I took, I took action on my own, uh, in my early twenties. So, but yeah, look, I mean, it's, it's so easy to not know where you find yourself and then you find yourself in this place. And I do agree that being cognizant of where you are and addressing it in an open way, in an active way is the only path. I mean, it's just every, every cycle we come around with some new easy solution. You guys remember the, uh, what was it? Fen, Fen Fen?

• 20:32Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Fen, Fen, Fen, Fen.

• 20:33David Friedberg?

  Yeah, you gotta be careful with that one. Yeah. That didn't work out. Yeah. And so, look, I mean, the data so far looks great, uh, with these GLP, um.

• 20:41Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Lip ones, yeah.

• 20:42David Friedberg?

  These drugs seem to be very effective. There's some data now that shows as soon as you stop taking it, the average person on it gains the weight right back.

• 20:49Chamath Palihapitiya?

  No, that didn't happen for me.

• 20:50David Friedberg?

  Increased muscle mass. Maybe not, but like.

• 20:52Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Yeah.

• 20:53David Friedberg?

  That, that, you know, across a large population, there's just data that's showing there's never going to be an easy path and it's, it's a very difficult, um.

• 21:00Speaker 00

  It's a process. You know, the thing I learned is if you just have like one Oreo a day or every other day, let's say that's 50 calories, you have one of those every other day, you're going to get two pounds a year for 20 years. Now you're 40 pounds overweight. It happens very slowly. You add it and then you just have to be super disciplined and you can lose a half a pound or a pound a week and then it can come off. So I really think it should be a movement in the United States. So much of our downstream issues, diabetes, heart disease, cancer, etc. seem to be contributed by obesity. So I think for our entire, for the entire country, I think if I ran for president, it would be Wegovy for everybody. Everybody who wants it. Wegovy is my platform.

• 21:45David Friedberg?

  Single issue voters, there's a platform you can vote for?

• 21:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's it. Single issue platform. Get in shape. There's some news, I think, we could touch on.

• 21:53David Friedberg?

  Sacks, how you feeling?

• 21:54David Sacks?

  I got a plane to catch. Let's do this.

• 21:56Speaker 00

  So there was an article in Vice, I guess that name checked the All In Podcast, it said, "Young people, instead of wanting to become McKinsey consultants, now want to become members of the All In Podcast and be venture capitalists." I did a little tweet storm that I thought, and I thought it'd be a great topic for us. I think for young people going into venture early is not a good idea. I think generally speaking, 80% of the cases. And I think starting your own company, or joining a high-growth company, or maybe joining a well-run, large company, or even joining a poorly-run, large company so you learn what not to do, are all better things to do in your twenties. Learn, be

• 22:39Speaker 00

  in the trenches. But I'm curious what you think, Sacks, about this issue. Because we came to venture and investing in our 40s, I believe, you know, both of us angel investors and then both of us having fun. So what are you advising a young person who's listening to the podcast, coming out of business school, whatever?

• 22:55David Sacks?

  Yeah, I agree with that. I think the main value prop that a VC has to offer a founder is advice. And if you've never walked in the founder's shoes before, if you've never founded a company or at least had a significant operating role, how are you in a position to offer them advice? Now, I think there was a period of time during the bull market where people stopped thinking that way, stopped thinking that advice was the model. VCs started competing on the basis of who could be the biggest cheerleader for the founder, who could offer the most sort of positive emotional support.

• 23:30Speaker 00

  Largest valuation.

• 23:31David Sacks?

  Or the biggest valuation or least governance. The idea of being completely passive, not taking a board seat, was actually sold to founders as a positive for them, that like, we'll invest and we'll just like stay completely out of the way. And all of those ideas sounded really good when the market was booming and everything was up and to the right. But now we're in a situation in which we're going through two years of intense turmoil. And a lot of companies aren't gonna make it. A lot of companies are restructuring. A lot of companies are gonna take down rounds. And actually being able to tap your board for advice on how to get through a rough patch, actually is pretty important. You realize now that like the uninvolved passive investor, that was not

• 24:16David Sacks?

  a positive value prop. That was an excuse for not having a value prop. And I think at times like this, it's really important to have VCs who've been around the block, who saw the last downturn, who ideally could have warned you that it was coming.

• 24:31Speaker 00

  Like we did on this pod for 18 months.

• 24:33David Sacks?

  Like we did repeatedly for, you know, a year.

• 24:34Speaker 00

  18 months, yeah.

• 24:36David Sacks?

  And so, yeah, I think that we're now seeing the correction. And I firmly agree with your analysis that there are too many people who joined the ranks of VC who firmly didn't have a value prop. And that's why, I mean, at our firm, we require that everyone who joins the investment team have operating experience and ideally founder experience. Because that is ultimately what you're gonna offer founders.

• 24:57Speaker 00

  Chamath, was too much of this people LARPing, live action role-playing VC, with just absolutely no idea how this works. And now, what happens to those, you know, actor or VCs who really... Are faced with portfolios that are upside down and they really have no idea how to weather a storm. This has been a hard 18 months. Let's be honest.

• 25:21Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Well, I think that it was a symptom of just the fact that there was a lot of free money in the system. And I don't know, the outcome is going to be pretty basic, which is that they're going to lose money for their limited partners and those limited partners, if they're not totally stupid, will never give these people money again. And these people will need to just find a new job. And I don't say that in a celebratory way. It's just a very practical ones and zeros monetary assessment of the facts. Look, I think that the weird thing that has happened is that it became like this kind of fun thing to be able to say you were doing. A lot of people used to moonlight and do it on the side. Then there were all these services that will allow you to basically like abstract the job. But the only thing that I would just qualify your statement, because I think what you're

• 26:06Chamath Palihapitiya?

  saying is like 90% right. But I don't think that's where the craziest outcome returns have come from. Because if you look at the two people that are really, or the three people that have really generated just gargantuan home run returns on a consistent basis. One of them, for example, like Mike Moritz, really didn't have those bona fides operationally. But I think that what Mike probably has, and I'm saying this not knowing him, is a preternatural like judge of psychology, I think. I think he's an incredibly qualified people judger. And there are people like that. Now, he's an outlier in order to do that. But the rest of us have to kind of, to your point, do with what we have, which

• 26:48Chamath Palihapitiya?

  is like, here's our experience and our maturity and, you know, we're telling you what we think. So I'm really excited actually for this wave to kind of crash on shore, because the number of founders that are going to get screwed over by folks that don't know what they're talking about is very high.

• 27:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:03Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And that needs to come to an end as quickly as possible.

• 27:05Speaker 00

  Friedberg?

• 27:06David Friedberg?

  Yeah, I don't think it's just Mike Moritz. I think that there's a class of successful venture capitalists. Bill Gurley is a great example. Like, he was an analyst. Danny Reimer at Index Ventures was an investment analyst.

• 27:18Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Fred Wilson.

• 27:20David Friedberg?

  Fred Wilson.

• 27:20Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Yeah, Lifetime VC.

• 27:22David Friedberg?

  And Moritz, John Doerr. I mean, John Doerr had some.

• 27:25Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Doerr worked at Intel.

• 27:25David Friedberg?

  Yeah, he worked at Intel. But there are folks who have an incredible analytical capacity. And that analytical capacity translates into incredible selection capability. That selection doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to necessarily be the best advisors, and I'm not saying that any of those folks are bad advisors. But there are some venture investors, like Founders Fund is very vocal about this and very public about this, that their objective is not to be your partner in helping you make decisions and run your company and recruit people and all the other sort of rigmarole that many VCs go out and tout. They are there to pick the best founders, and the best founders don't need the VC to be successful. And their job then is to have incredible selection capacity.

• 28:08David Friedberg?

  So if they can select the best founders and get out of their way, they've made a lot of money and their returns are unbelievable. And then there are some VCs who are really incredible partners to their founders, and their objective, Josh Koppelman at First Round built an entire firm around this practice, which is to partner very closely with founders and to build support and capabilities. Andreessen Horowitz was built on the same sort of concept, that they would roll all of their fees into building operating support and capacity to support founders and support companies. Both firms have obviously done well in their own right. And so I don't know if there's necessarily one breed that predicts success when it comes to successful venture capital. I will say from my own personal experience, I worked as an investment banker for my first two years out of undergrad.

• 28:50David Friedberg?

  I, you know, worked, I had a science background, I worked in a short stint in private equity, I worked at Google, I did corp dev and M&A there. I started a company, ran it, sold it, did that with another business where I was on the board. So, you know, I've, I've been on a couple of different places around the table that, you know, I think have given me the ability to, to provide advice. I don't know if I necessarily have the same skill set that the team at Founders Fund and Mike Moritz and others might have at this astute, extraordinary ability to spot founders and bring them in. So I think everyone needs to kind of recognize what they do bring to the table, be very clear about what that is. And I think to your point, there has just been an incredible bull market over the last 15 years, since 2008, more money has, I heard an incredible statistic, by the way.

• 29:35David Friedberg?

  I don't want to get it wrong, so maybe we should fact check me after this, from someone at your wedding, who I was talking to for a long time. And he was like... He was like, basically, the top 1% of VCs didn't beat what would have happened if you just bought the top 5 public tech companies and, you know, effectively did a rebalance over the past 15 years. The bull market and the aggregation of value in technology has largely been 50/50 to public and private. So, you could have just bought a few stocks and held on to them and beat all of the VCs over the last 15 years. Even though a bunch of VCs have made good money and their IRR looks like 12%, but you have to beat-

• 30:11Chamath Palihapitiya?

  The risk-adjusted returns on venture, and this is not to throw shade at even all of those people, that you mentioned are fucking terrible.

• 30:18David Friedberg?

  Right.

• 30:19Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Like, you should not have invested in any of those.

• 30:21David Friedberg?

  Right.

• 30:22Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Because there's no way to ton it in any of those funds because you get a small allocation, one fund does well, 3 funds do crappy.

• 30:29David Friedberg?

  Over the past 10 years, or 15 years, I forgot the number, we've seen the public market cap of these top tech companies grow from 1 trillion to 10 trillion. That's a 10x.

• 30:39Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Yeah.

• 30:40David Friedberg?

  So, all you had to do was buy those and you would have made 10x, and that works out to north of 25% IRR.

• 30:44Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Yeah.

• 30:45David Friedberg?

  And there's very few VCs that have been able to beat 25% IRR. They assume now, he was telling me his model shows that over the next 10 years, it'll be roughly 70/30. So, it'll be about 30% more accrue, and they think over the next 10 years, it's going to go from 10 trillion to 25 trillion, which is still a great return.

• 31:00Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Just to build on this-

• 31:01David Friedberg?

  But it shows how much of a hurdle there is in venture to be successful.

• 31:04Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I started the business in 2011, so now, this is the 12th or 13th year. Just how hard this game is. I had about a 31/32% gross IRR going into last year. And then my IRR fell off a cliff because I couldn't get into, obviously, there's like, there's no money to distribute.

• 31:21David Friedberg?

  Well, there's nothing to distribute, yeah.

• 31:22Chamath Palihapitiya?

  So, my IRR start to decay, and then I had this really, really fucked up choice. I have to start selling stuff earlier than I would have otherwise to get the money back out. So, to your point-

• 31:32David Friedberg?

  Right.

• 31:32Speaker 00

  Now, it takes courage.

• 31:33Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Then, it's a really tough game over long periods of time.

• 31:37David Friedberg?

  Returns get compressed, yeah.

• 31:38Chamath Palihapitiya?

  A really tough game.

• 31:39Speaker 00

  I think there's also something going on, you know, in the United States and society where there are some idealized jobs. We talked about SAG's elites, surplus elites, and I want to dovetail this with what's happening in Hollywood, the writer's strike and the actor's strike. And I was looking at it, there's some unbelievable number of actors in SAG, some unbelievable number of writers. They all make just incredibly small amounts of money on average, and obviously, there's some big fish who do well, but it does seem like- There's too many people who want too many of these idealized jobs and venture is one of those and I just would like young people to understand also be careful what you wish

• 32:21Speaker 00

  for this job has seemed easy just like it might seem easy for Tom Cruise or Christopher Nolan when you see them or Tarantino what you don't see is all of the people who tried to become Tarantino who tried to become you know Tom Cruise and there are far too

• 32:37Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And spent 10 to 15 years before they realized that they're not.

• 32:39Speaker 00

  And they did not actually have the fundamental skills or the work ethic that is required to become Tarantino I listened to Tarantino's podcast he does a have you heard the video archives podcast yet you have to get on this it's him and his the co-writer of um who did you write pulp fiction with Roger Avery so him and Roger Avery is my favorite podcast right now they just talk about films their knowledge of films is so unbelievable and the detail in which they talk about that is so crisp they finish each other's sentences in the way with maybe you listen to this podcast you know we all go oh John Doerr oh no he worked at Intel oh this person yeah Maritz he was a journalist we have a

• 33:22Speaker 00

  deep, deep understanding of this business that comes from 30 years within it or 20 years and I think you have to I know it sounds corny but you have to pay your dues you have to put 60 70 hours in a week to get that elite job and the problem today I feel is and for people who are listening who are young people coming out of schools if you're not willing to sacrifice 60 70 80 hours a week for a decade or two you're just not going to be successful in that career.

• 33:49Chamath Palihapitiya?

  By the way and young people push back on this and I think the simplest way to reframe it is in the following do you really think for example let's pick NBA basketball do you think you would be really interested or find credible that the best player in the NBA only practiced three hours a week does that happen?

• 34:10Speaker 00

  Impossible.

• 34:11Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Or do you think they're practicing three hours in the morning and then also three hours in the afternoon and they give up their lives the most incredible thing that I saw in the NBA was all of these men literally gave up their life to play that game to perfect it and that's true for anything and so I don't understand how whether if you're a filmmaker whether you want to be an investor whether you want to be an athlete whether you want to be an actor a surgeon It's just like it's an immutable law of physics, so just get over it. Which is, you need to put in tens of thousands of hours, and if you cannot or won't, you should not expect the success, and you should not complain.

• 34:48David Friedberg?

  And also-

• 34:49Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Cause it's not free!

• 34:50David Friedberg?

  Yeah, these guys-

• 34:52Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Do you agree with that or not?

• 34:53David Friedberg?

  Yeah, look, I mean LeBron, 20, what was it, 2016 when they came back and won in game 7? 2016?

• 34:58Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I don't wanna-

• 34:58David Friedberg?

  2016, that's a bad scar tissue. Yeah, right, but, um, the next day, they were, you know, his teammates go out and celebrate. You know what LeBron did on Instagram the next day? Posted a photo at 7am of himself in the gym.

• 35:09Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Yeah.

• 35:09David Friedberg?

  Working out. Um, but look, one thing I'll say, LeBron knows what his skill is, and he knows what his game is. I think every individual needs to figure out what their skill is and what their game is, and not to find glory in what others have found to be their skill and their game. That there is something that comes from mastering any craft that gives an individual joy and purpose in life. And you see this in basketball, you see it when these athletes really find what they love and they do it, and they commit to it. And there are things that we each have realized we are good at, and there are things that we've all certainly realized we are not good at. And identifying that and mastering one's craft is the key to any person being successful and happy, I believe.

• 35:48Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I just-

• 35:49David Friedberg?

  Versus just assuming that there's a thing out there that everyone makes money at-

• 35:52Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Distraction alert, all of our wives are about to go swimming.

• 35:55David Friedberg?

  Oh my lord!

• 35:55Chamath Palihapitiya?

  They're so hot. My lord, look at my wife. Woo! Jesus. God almighty, I hit the jackpot, it's Beauty and the Beast, you can relate, huh? Chamath.

• 36:07David Friedberg?

  The way I look at it- We were joking at breakfast today, we were like, my wife must have low self-esteem because she's married to me.

• 36:13Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Sacks had the best line, he's like, if you Google Nathalie Donbey, you find this picture of her holding a tiger, a lion by the-

• 36:21David Sacks?

  A lion by the tail. Which is a lot more exciting than holding a Sri Lankan by the schlong.

• 36:26Speaker 00

  Heyo.

• 36:28David Sacks?

  Heyo.

• 36:30Speaker 00

  I was playing Ed McMahon for Sax when he hit the roast last night. I was just like laughing guy. Every time he hit it, I just would bang the table.

• 36:37David Friedberg?

  You didn't get, uh, Hellmuth off the cliff though. I was waiting for that moment.

• 36:40Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Poor Hellmuth.

• 36:41David Friedberg?

  All the way off the cliff.

• 36:42Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I mean, I think he knows how. You know what happened? Kat told me what happened. So the backstory is Phil Hellmuth is a narcissist and.

• 36:50Speaker 00

  No, no, if you know Phil Hellmuth, you know that.

• 36:52Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Yeah.

• 36:52Speaker 00

  That's implied.

• 36:53Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And he just cannot give a speech.

• 36:54David Friedberg?

  He's your best friend.

• 36:55Chamath Palihapitiya?

  We all, he's not my best friend.

• 37:00Chamath Palihapitiya?

  But he's, he, he gives horrible speeches.

• 37:03Speaker 00

  He, you and he are best friends like three, four hours.

• 37:05David Sacks?

  Every speech, well, Phil, every speech he gives at every event, it's all about himself.

• 37:09Chamath Palihapitiya?

  It's all about himself.

• 37:10Speaker 00

  That's why we say seven seconds to Phil.

• 37:12Chamath Palihapitiya?

  But it's incredible because it could be, it could be a wedding, a bar mitzvah, a funeral.

• 37:16Speaker 00

  Doesn't matter.

• 37:16David Sacks?

  No, no, but, but in our chat, so when, when Chama said, okay, Phil's going to give a speech. Phil's like, of course I'm going to give a speech. Every speech I give is amazing.

• 37:26Speaker 00

  I kill it every time.

• 37:27David Sacks?

  I raised 70 million dollars. Then he goes, then he goes, the last event, I gave a speech. It brought the house down. Everyone was laughing. I killed it. It was Doyle Brunson's funeral.

• 37:39Speaker 00

  Oh my God, no dude.

• 37:40David Sacks?

  What?

• 37:41Speaker 00

  What?

• 37:42David Sacks?

  You killed it at a funeral?

• 37:44Chamath Palihapitiya?

  So I asked, I asked Hellmuth to do, to do this toast and I was like, okay, well we'll do four of them, but I thought if we start with Hellmuth, it'll just be so bad.

• 37:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, you bought him out early.

• 37:53Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Yeah, you bought him out early and then the rest of you guys.

• 37:55Speaker 00

  You just set the bar.

• 37:56David Friedberg?

  It was the right sequence.

• 37:57Chamath Palihapitiya?

  But Sax crushed it.

• 37:58Speaker 00

  Sax just nailed it. Sax.

• 38:01Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Crushed, crushed it.

• 38:02Speaker 00

  Deep state, crushed it.

• 38:06David Sacks?

  I think we're all still amazed that made up the stairs. You know, it was, it was a hike to get up to that castle.

• 38:11Speaker 00

  It was 400 steps to that. Uh, yeah. Um, he looks good. He lost about 20 pounds.

• 38:15David Sacks?

  It was pretty impressive.

• 38:16David Friedberg?

  Yeah. Well, this has been a great episode of the Y'all in Pod.

• 38:18Speaker 00

  Did anybody see Oppenheimer yet? I'm so excited.

• 38:21Chamath Palihapitiya?

  How do we see it?

• 38:21David Sacks?

  It's, it's going to be a Barbenheimer double feature.

• 38:24Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Barbenheimer.

• 38:24David Sacks?

  In honor of the Barbenheimer wedding.

• 38:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm not, I'm not Barbenheimer-ing it.

• 38:28Chamath Palihapitiya?

  That's a great one. The Barbenheimer.

• 38:31David Friedberg?

  Nolan's like so about 70 millimeter prints. He's like, you have to watch it.

• 38:35Speaker 00

  Do you know the Metronon, Metreon?

• 38:37David Friedberg?

  In the city.

• 38:38Speaker 00

  Is it? So we should just rent the theater and invite some fans.

• 38:40David Friedberg?

  Or just go. Yeah, I mean, we should do that.

• 38:42Speaker 00

  No, we should just rent it. Let's rent it.

• 38:43David Friedberg?

  This week.

• 38:44Speaker 00

  I've rented it. It's, I think it's sold out until like six.

• 38:46David Friedberg?

  Very limited time. Oh, the theater is.

• 38:47Speaker 00

  We just have to call them and say, hey, can we rent the thing?

• 38:50David Friedberg?

  They'll do a show.

• 38:51Speaker 00

  Here's 20 dimes.

• 38:51David Friedberg?

  I once went to a showing of Interstellar there and Christopher Nolan came and spoke and got to meet him and speak to him afterwards. He's a very soft spoken guy and he's not very sociable. He doesn't, you know, sort of like Sacks, he doesn't want to make eye contact and actually talk with you. But, you know, we challenged him.

• 39:07Speaker 00

  Are you making fun of people with Asperger's?

• 39:10David Friedberg?

  But he was great. I mean,

• 39:11David Sacks?

  Hello, pot. It's kennel calling.

• 39:17David Friedberg?

  I will say, um, he's, he's what? Top three filmmakers of our time? Top four?

• 39:22Speaker 00

  Uh, for me, it's Ridley Scott, Tarantino, Nolan.

• 39:27Chamath Palihapitiya?

  There's a very funny moment.

• 39:28Speaker 00

  Where's your list, Sacks, right now?

• 39:30David Sacks?

  You gotta put Scorsese on that list.

• 39:31Speaker 00

  Oh, right, of course.

• 39:32David Friedberg?

  Uh, P T Anderson.

• 39:33Speaker 00

  No, no P T Anderson.

• 39:35David Friedberg?

  Dennis Nill and Nueve.

• 39:37Speaker 00

  Hit or miss.

• 39:38David Sacks?

  Woody Allen? Can we mention that name?

• 39:40Speaker 00

  I mean,

• 39:41David Friedberg?

  Can't say that. Bleep.

• 39:43Speaker 00

  It's hard to watch now. It's hard to watch. The whole Sunni thing makes it too hard.

• 39:46Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I like, uh,

• 39:50David Friedberg?

  Oh, my God.

• 39:52Chamath Palihapitiya?

  No, Nick, Nick, bleep those out. There's a very funny moment on the, the first, the first dinner.

• 39:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:59Chamath Palihapitiya?

  You know, we did this great thing. You, Nick, beep out the names. When [BLEEP] sat down, everybody's like, and I was waiting for David to sit.

• 40:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:09Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And he [BLEEP] just keep talking and talking.

• 40:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:12Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Talking and talking. And finally Nat went to the, like, sit the fuck down right now and had to get this fucking thing going.

• 40:18Speaker 00

  So who do you got? You got Scorsese, of course.

• 40:20David Sacks?

  Yeah, I mean, you're talking about like currently alive filmmakers. I think that's

• 40:23Speaker 00

  Active filmmakers, of act.

• 40:24David Sacks?

  Leslie Menchon's pretty good. Um, I don't have to think about it for missing anybody.

• 40:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, Ridley Scott's up there for you.

• 40:31David Sacks?

  Yeah. Yeah, Ridley Scott. Yeah. I mean, he's still making

• 40:34Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Christopher Nolan is pretty excellent.

• 40:35David Sacks?

  He's very productive, too.

• 40:36Speaker 00

  That's the thing about Ridley Scott. Every two years.

• 40:38David Friedberg?

  Michael Bay?

• 40:39Speaker 00

  Versatility, Michael Bay.

• 40:40David Sacks?

  I don't, I don't know if Ridley Scott's my number one, but, um,

• 40:43Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I met Michael Bay in Costa Rica.

• 40:48Speaker 00

  Can you, did you ask him for the thirty dollars back? For Transformers?

• 40:54Chamath Palihapitiya?

  No, I mean, like, I didn't particularly know who he was.

• 40:56Speaker 00

  I cannot watch any of his films. I cannot watch any of those. Yeah.

• 40:59Chamath Palihapitiya?

  He's like a very nice guy.

• 41:00Speaker 00

  I'm sure he's great.

• 41:03Speaker 00

  So, also on the dock.

• 41:04David Sacks?

  He's got Napoleon coming out. The trailer looks amazing.

• 41:06Speaker 00

  Amazing. Anything with Joaquin Phoenix? Michael Bay is making. No, no, no, no, no.

• 41:10David Sacks?

  Ridley Scott.

• 41:11Speaker 00

  Oh, Ridley Scott.

• 41:11David Sacks?

  With Joaquin Phoenix playing Napoleon. It's kind of interesting.

• 41:15Speaker 00

  I hate to go deep into the, um, do you guys want to talk about Zert Bed behavior? Or you want to talk about the resolution of this Hollywood stuff and what it means writ large?

• 41:23Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Well, the Hollywood stuff, look, I tweeted about this a couple of weeks ago. My observations on this were twofold. One is that it's going to have the exact opposite effect that they want. If what they want, if what the writers and the actors guild want is to show the owners of the studios how valuable they are. The problem is that this moves the owners and the studios one step closer into the hands of tools that will disintermediate the actors and the writers.

• 41:52Speaker 00

  They'll embrace that technology faster.

• 41:53Chamath Palihapitiya?

  They'll embrace the AI tools that you guys have talked about. You were showing something around even like yesterday or whatever. So like, the point is like, I don't see it as very effective. And then my second thought is like, I just think that unions in general are probably not a very effective way to get these concessions anymore versus the tax that the union members pay. And you can just see that in terms of like, the number of people in unions are just kind of decaying pretty quickly. The wage gains are pretty de minimis. It's just not an effective mechanism of negotiation.

• 42:25Speaker 00

  Sax, the unions are a way for average performers to fight to get a little bit more, but

• 42:32David Sacks?

  Right.

• 42:33Speaker 00

  It's the antithesis of having a meritocracy and people fighting for their best possible pay. And so the conundrum I have is I'm seeing all these Marvel actors, superhero actors getting dropped off at the protests. And they're complaining about Bob Iger making twenty-five million. When Tom Cruise or, you know, Robert Downey Jr., pick the person, I'm not singling anybody out. But those people who got to the top of the heap after twenty, thirty, forty years in the business are getting paid fifty million a picture. A hundred million a picture at Backends. And, and so what's your take on what's going on here? Because there, it seems, I don't want to say hypocritical, but it feels like they're talking out of both sides of their mouth. They want to have an auction.

• 43:16David Friedberg?

  To the highest bidder for these incredibly talented writers, directors, producers, as it should be. But then they also want to fight for the average.

• 43:24David Sacks?

  Right.

• 43:25David Friedberg?

  It's confusing to me.

• 43:26David Sacks?

  Some of the union demands, I think, are reasonable and I understand why they want them. So, for example, I think they're arguing for more residuals for, like you said, the kind of lower level performers so that they can get healthcare.

• 43:38David Friedberg?

  The average ones.

• 43:39David Sacks?

  Yeah, so I can understand that. At the same time, they're demanding that writers' rooms not use AI software.

• 43:45David Friedberg?

  Which they're already doing.

• 43:46David Sacks?

  Yeah, which is just crazy because AI is going to be incorporated into all software. So to not be able to use the latest features of whatever, Word or Google Docs or whatever screenwriting software.

• 43:57David Friedberg?

  Yes.

• 43:58David Sacks?

  That's like the king who ordered the tides to stop, you know?

• 44:00David Friedberg?

  Yeah, good luck.

• 44:01David Sacks?

  This is just a march of technology. It's not going to work. So I think that's like really off base. So I can sympathize with some of the demands, other ones I think are hard to see. In terms of your point about the economics, I mean, look, the basic problem with Hollywood is it's a winner take all business. I mean, you've got a few actors who become big stars. This is true actually with all the creative industries. Is there a power law businesses? You know, J.K. Rowling makes a billion dollars as an author. The 10,000th author or whatever makes like almost nothing.

• 44:32David Friedberg?

  Person makes a living.

• 44:33David Sacks?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 44:34David Friedberg?

  They're living a month to month.

• 44:35David Sacks?

  Yeah, can't even make a living. And the reason for that, by the way, is because there's a lot of people willing to do it for free. Humans are fundamentally creative. There's a lot of people willing to be actors for free or

• 44:45David Friedberg?

  Sure.

• 44:45David Sacks?

  on a subsistence wage.

• 44:46David Friedberg?

  Or writers.

• 44:47David Sacks?

  Or write or whatever creatively because they're willing to do their art for free.

• 44:51David Friedberg?

  Podcasters.

• 44:51David Sacks?

  Right. And so the reality is the reason Hollywood doesn't have to pay these sort of the entry level actors very much is there's a lot of people willing to do that job.

• 45:00David Friedberg?

  There's too many people want that job.

• 45:01David Sacks?

  A lot of people want to do that job.

• 45:02David Friedberg?

  And it doesn't need to be in a structured production system anymore. You guys saw the latest Disney earnings release and Iger said, "We are going to consider selling NACO and a bunch of other channels. There may actually be a spinoff because content creation for that mid-tier or that tail no longer makes sense."

• 45:21David Sacks?

  Not viable.

• 45:22David Friedberg?

  Profitable because there's so much content being generated by this very long tail. That's accruing a lot of the eyeballs and a lot of the hours of consumers mindset and time. I, I think that there's a big disruption.

• 45:32David Sacks?

  Just can I connect that idea? So we were talking earlier about career choices. So first of all, it's, it's, I agree with what you guys said about the time commitment you have to make, but it's not really about time per se. It's about your obsession level. Can you be obsessed with something so that 60, 70 hours a week feels like nothing to you? Because you're so immersed, you're so obsessed with it.

• 45:51David Friedberg?

  Right.

• 45:51David Sacks?

  The way that Tarantino and Avery are obsessed with classic films have the whole database in their head. So if you want to pursue one of these careers in a winner take all space, like writing, like acting or whatever, you better just be completely obsessed.

• 46:04David Friedberg?

  You gotta be all in.

• 46:05David Sacks?

  Yeah, you gotta be all in. I'd say furthermore.

• 46:07David Friedberg?

  And be unique, like what makes you novel.

• 46:10David Sacks?

  Yeah, I mean.

• 46:10David Friedberg?

  Even if you are all in, you still have to have luck and skill.

• 46:14David Sacks?

  Yeah, and furthermore, you have to know where the bar is. So I think a lot of people, this is one of the things I noticed when I was producing a movie is a lot of people look at like the worst actor or the worst screenwriter and say, I'm better than that person, so I'm going to make it. But your bar is not the worst person who's made it. Your bar is the best person who hasn't made it. That's the person you're really competing against.

• 46:36David Friedberg?

  Next up.

• 46:37David Sacks?

  It's the next up. It's the person you're going on auditions and you're competing against someone who hasn't made it yet, but they're amazing. And you don't necessarily know where that bar is because it's much harder to see.

• 46:46David Friedberg?

  Yeah.

• 46:46David Sacks?

  But that's where the bar really is.

• 46:48David Friedberg?

  Right. I, look, I think there's also a big disruption.

• 46:50David Sacks?

  Really well said.

• 46:51David Friedberg?

  Yeah, totally. And as we extend the long tail of consumer content creation into what is effectively now the infinite tail of AI generation, AI generated content creation. It is going to totally disrupt and change the game of media, of content, generally speaking. We're getting to a point now where you can effectively tie together rendering engines with scripting, with scene definition, with directorial lines, all the stuff that goes into pre-production and production can be generated through, through AI, through scripting and then tuned and tweaked by a human. But ultimately it increases the scale, like all technologies do. It increases leverage for humans and we could see a hundred times more films come out, each of which costs one one hundredth the cost.

• 47:36David Friedberg?

  You know, one of the best production companies in L.A. is Blumhouse.

• 47:39Speaker 00

  Horror films for $2 million, $3 million.

• 47:41David Friedberg?

  They make it for $2 million bucks and they make a bunch of them because they cost so little to make. And if any one of them hits, they make 180 million bucks or 200 million bucks at the box office. It's a fantastic business model.

• 47:50Speaker 00

  Genre films.

• 47:51David Friedberg?

  It's very much a unique model in Hollywood and it's really changed the game quite a bit. And I think we're going to see something similar emerge because of generative AI and the tooling. And then people start to question.

• 48:00Chamath Palihapitiya?

  What is it called? What is it called?

• 48:02David Friedberg?

  Uh, the, oh. But, um, I look, one thing, one thing I do want to say, I do think that there's also a change in Hollywood. That's going to be driven, as we talked about before, by the ability to generate personalized film, personalized content. Um, rather than one piece of content for everyone where you have to make blockbusters and everyone watches it. There is a question, however, of culture and culture is, you know, shared experience, stories and beliefs. Shared experience, stories and beliefs can still be realized through personalized media, through personalized, um, content generation. Think about, you know, an old narrative, an old tale that was told, you know, via, uh, people speaking to each other around a campfire. The, the ethics and the morals of the story are still there, but everyone tells it a little bit differently.

• 48:45David Friedberg?

  I think that's what we may end up seeing Hollywood production or AI-generated production.

• 48:49Speaker 00

  Did you guys see this?

• 48:50David Friedberg?

  Which is everyone tweaks their content in their own personal way. They consume it in their own way, but the Hollywood studios, how much of a role do they ultimately end up playing? And does this start to go 10 times more what we've seen in YouTube? Content consumption goes way up and the number of folks that are contributing to it goes way up by 10 or 100x.

• 49:07Speaker 00

  I, I think this is one of the fundamental things that the unions and Hollywood have not yet grogged completely, which is they're not fighting each other, they're fighting TikTok, YouTube, podcasts and people making their own content. That's taking.

• 49:20Chamath Palihapitiya?

  They're fighting, they're, they're fighting Jimmy Donaldson, they're fighting Mr. Beast.

• 49:23Speaker 00

  They're fighting Mr. Beast.

• 49:24Chamath Palihapitiya?

  They're fighting each other over the last scraps of a dying model.

• 49:28Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 49:28Chamath Palihapitiya?

  They're fighting KSI, like they're fighting these.

• 49:30David Friedberg?

  The people that spend two hours a week listening to us rant on about stuff, right?

• 49:33Chamath Palihapitiya?

  They're fighting the Bultez sisters.

• 49:35Speaker 00

  That's two less hours.

• 49:35David Friedberg?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 49:36Speaker 00

  It's two less hours of broadcast TV and then in Mr. Beast, these kids watch his videos five times. They watch each one five times.

• 49:43Chamath Palihapitiya?

  He's probably the only person in recent memory that has rebuilt, uh, event-based viewership. Because people know Saturday mornings at noon Eastern time is when these videos drop. Hundreds of millions of people.

• 49:56Speaker 00

  It's appointment television.

• 49:57Chamath Palihapitiya?

  It's appointment television. Now back, by the way. When you hear, you know, the story about Mr. Beast, that's a guy that's been doing it since he was 13 years old.

• 50:05David Friedberg?

  Studying.

• 50:06Chamath Palihapitiya?

  He's 24 years old, so that's 11 years where he's literally only lived and breathed.

• 50:10David Friedberg?

  High energy iteration.

• 50:12Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And in the laboratory. Energy iteration in the lab, down to the very pixel, right? Like when he, for example, like.

• 50:17David Friedberg?

  And the cuts.

• 50:18Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Remember, remember.

• 50:19David Friedberg?

  Watch his cuts on his videos.

• 50:20Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Remember he told us about like thumbnails?

• 50:21David Friedberg?

  Yes.

• 50:22Chamath Palihapitiya?

  He has an entire PhD thesis that he's learned just on thumbnails.

• 50:25David Friedberg?

  Yeah.

• 50:25Speaker 00

  And that's a level of commitment. I think what Hollywood needs to do, just to, to put it out there, is the, the leadership in Hollywood gets compensated on a corporate level. And then they come up with this, you know, pay and sometimes residual, sometimes not, and scraps for the talent. I would encourage them to read something like an autobiography by Kurosawa and study the Toho system where everybody was aligned inside the company. If I'm running Disney, I'm hiring the top 200 or 300 writers, putting them full time on staff, giving them equity and getting everybody rowing in the right direction. They do not have time to fuck around. They need to be in alignment, making great content.

• 51:03Speaker 00

  And the incentive structure matters. If Bob Iger is getting compensated by stock options, the actors, Robert Downey Jr., who's the guy, the incredible director of Swingers and.

• 51:15Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Jon Favreau.

• 51:16Speaker 00

  Favreau, I, I was talking to Favreau at an event and I was like, how much like equity in Disney did you get for doing Mandalorian? And like launching Disney Plus for them? And he's like, zero.

• 51:26Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Zero.

• 51:27Speaker 00

  And I'm like, why do they not back up a hundred million dollars in equity?

• 51:31Chamath Palihapitiya?

  But if you look, and this is what's crazy, if you look at the biggest content producers of that older generation, they locked up the equity. You know, Spielberg owns equity in the movies that he made.

• 51:39David Friedberg?

  Paramount.

• 51:40Chamath Palihapitiya?

  George Lucas owns equity in the movies.

• 51:41Speaker 00

  He owns part of the studios.

• 51:43David Friedberg?

  Did you see the deal Christopher Nolan cut on, um, on Oppenheimer?

• 51:46Chamath Palihapitiya?

  No.

• 51:46David Friedberg?

  I think he gets, uh, 20% of the gross off the first dollar.

• 51:49Speaker 00

  That's absurd.

• 51:50David Friedberg?

  Yeah. And he got a hundred million dollar budget and a hundred million marketing comment, uh, on the, on the, the deal.

• 51:56Speaker 00

  Joker was Todd Phillips. Well, this is a perfect example.

• 52:00David Sacks?

  I was talking to Todd Phillips, actually. I got to have dinner with him last summer.

• 52:03Speaker 00

  Great guy, yeah.

• 52:03David Sacks?

  Yeah, great guy. And he waived his fee on Joker to take a big chunk of the equity.

• 52:10Speaker 00

  Because he did that on The Hangover. And he owned the IP of The Hangover. He owned the sequels. And Hangover 1 and 2, amazing. Hangover 3, you can miss it.

• 52:20Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Blah, yeah.

• 52:21Speaker 00

  But he made more, I think, on Hangover 3.

• 52:23David Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 52:24Speaker 00

  And he got all those guys, Galifinakis, etc. They got their biggest payday on number 3.

• 52:28David Sacks?

  Right.

• 52:29Speaker 00

  You have to craft a deal. We have equity. The other crazy deal...

• 52:32David Sacks?

  The studio was less bullish than he was on both Hangover and Joker because they're both really unusual movies. So they allowed him to take equity in exchange for giving back a fee.

• 52:42Speaker 00

  They're like, "You only want to spend 50 million on a superhero film? That's never gonna work." And then he's like, "Yeah, it made a billion. Joker made a billion."

• 52:49David Sacks?

  Right, but they thought it was too dark.

• 52:51Speaker 00

  Underestimating audiences, as always in Hollywood.

• 52:53Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Todd, I'll tell you a very funny poker story with Todd Phillips. You gonna hear it?

• 52:55Speaker 00

  Are you gonna hear your Disney stock? Uh, right now, I'm gonna ride it out. I think their IP collection is amazing. I think there's a chance that, you know, depending on how the FTC winds up being run over the long term, that Disney could be, um, selling pieces of that business. And I think that it could become an acquisition target itself at some point.

• 53:15Chamath Palihapitiya?

  You wanna hear a Todd Phillips poker story?

• 53:16Speaker 00

  I play poker with him, yeah. He's, uh, he's fun.

• 53:18Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Todd Phillips is a very, very disciplined poker player.

• 53:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:22Chamath Palihapitiya?

  You know, he's got like a stop-loss. He hits the stop-loss, he's done. And he's very funny and jokes around, you know, bust balls, whatever. And there was a while where he would play in the big game in LA with us. And he didn't say much. He was very focused and tight as right. And then he did this deal, and then Hangover 3 comes out, and all of a sudden, you know, he's got chirping chips.

• 53:45David Sacks?

  He's splashing the pot?

• 53:46Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I bust Phillips in a pot. And he looks at me, and he called me Slumdog Billionaire after the movie. The guys at the table thought it was so funny because that movie Slumdog Millionaire had just come out. So then they all started calling me Slummy.

• 54:01David Friedberg?

  That's gonna stick.

• 54:03Chamath Palihapitiya?

  It took me a year for them to get, stop calling me that.

• 54:06David Friedberg?

  Yeah, pretty great.

• 54:07David Sacks?

  On the union thing, I'll tell you a story. So recently it was just announced that Anchor Steam shut down. Anchor Steam was this beer, this native beer in San Francisco that's been around forever.

• 54:16David Friedberg?

  Japanese brewery bought them, right?

• 54:18David Sacks?

  It was bought by Sapporo several years ago.

• 54:20David Friedberg?

  Anchor Steam shut down?

• 54:21David Sacks?

  Anchor Steam shut down.

• 54:22David Friedberg?

  You're kidding me?

• 54:23David Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 54:23David Friedberg?

  I used to go there all the time for like work events. You do like an offsite there and go to the brewery.

• 54:27David Sacks?

  Yeah, it was like one of the original microbrews.

• 54:29David Friedberg?

  Yeah, fantastic.

• 54:30David Sacks?

  Award winning beer, iconic. Well, it's out of business now.

• 54:33David Friedberg?

  You're kidding.

• 54:33David Sacks?

  And the reason is, well, it was losing money. And you want to know why? Is because three years ago, the workers all voted to unionize. There were only something like 60 workers, 62 workers. And three years ago, they voted to unionize and they voted themselves big pay increases.

• 54:48David Friedberg?

  Yeah.

• 54:48David Sacks?

  And so I guess Sapporo had to go along with it. Three years later, Sapporo's like, eh, shut the whole thing down.

• 54:53David Friedberg?

  Um, I think.

• 54:54David Sacks?

  And that's, and that's the thing is you gotta be careful what you wish for.

• 54:57David Friedberg?

  This is overplay your.

• 54:58Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I really think the thing with unions that they get wrong is unions fight for exactly this, which is this short-term increase in current compensation. And I think what unions do very poorly is actually understanding the long-term equity that the employees and members of that union actually create. I tweeted this a few weeks ago as well, but the single biggest reason that motivated me when I sold my piece of the Warriors was obviously just the crazy increase in the valuation, right?

• 55:29David Friedberg?

  Yeah.

• 55:29Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I bought it for, you know.

• 55:30David Friedberg?

  300, 600.

• 55:32Chamath Palihapitiya?

  300 and it was worth 5.2 billion at the time, whatever. But the second biggest reason was my huge fear was that I, as an owner, I just wanted to cash in the chips because I think the most right thing to do for the union. Like the NBA Players Association is the fight for equity.

• 55:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 55:50Chamath Palihapitiya?

  It like Michael Jordan, single-handedly has created $15 billion of equity in the NBA.

• 55:57Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 55:57Chamath Palihapitiya?

  How much has he captured? One or two billion, but not from the league. He captured it accidentally from shoes. Right? How much money is LeBron James actually created for the NBA? It's enormous.

• 56:08Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 56:09Chamath Palihapitiya?

  How much is he?

• 56:10Speaker 00

  He made five.

• 56:11David Sacks?

  They're not trying to get the right piece of the upside.

• 56:13Chamath Palihapitiya?

  They're not trying to get the right piece of the upside.

• 56:14David Sacks?

  Also, when the business doesn't do well, then the labor contracts become a source of huge inflexibility.

• 56:20Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Huge inflexibility.

• 56:21David Sacks?

  And you can't make the necessary business changes.

• 56:22Chamath Palihapitiya?

  So to your point.

• 56:22David Sacks?

  The business gets shut down.

• 56:23Chamath Palihapitiya?

  So to your point, like when you, when what happens now is there's these huge luxury taxes in professional sports. And so folks bloat the payroll. They try to get all these players, but if you don't win and get to the playoffs, you're not selling more merch, you're not getting incremental share of TV revenues, you're not getting ticket revenues. And all of a sudden you have these massive luxury taxes you have to pay and not enough revenue to pay for it. And so these teams all of a sudden now start to gush money, have to make capital calls. Because these things that sound incredible upfront start to become real weights on these businesses. The real thing, all unions in all industries, I would, I would tell you all to do is figure out how to get the equity upside

• 57:05Chamath Palihapitiya?

  in the business in which your members are working in and are creating value in.

• 57:09David Sacks?

  Right. And in exchange for that, have more forgiveness on the downside so the business can actually persevere. Whether the storm is supposed to have to shut down.

• 57:16Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Exactly.

• 57:17Speaker 00

  Alignment, you know, alignment incentives are just so critical. I was talking to the head of one of the giant publishers. I wouldn't say which one, IBNIS Insider, I don't know which one it was, but they were being unionized. And I said, wow, is this a disaster for your business? He said, oh, J. C. How? Greatest thing ever. I said, why? He's like, now when people come to us and they want to get paid more, we just take out the chart. How many years have you been here? Oh, five? Okay. Yeah. One, two, three, four, five, 72,000. And they said, well, no, but I bring more page views or whatever. I was like, yeah, okay. Yeah. Page view multiplier point one, five. Okay. So you're 78K. And then just. Basically.

• 57:55Chamath Palihapitiya?

  That's what happens at Business Insider?

• 57:56David Sacks?

  Yeah, but that's kinda.

• 57:57Speaker 00

  And who knows?

• 57:58David Sacks?

  That's probably why they're a clickbait business.

• 58:01Speaker 00

  And then that drives perverse incentives. And it's like, why not align it with, what is the profitability of the business? What is the growth of the business? A bonus pool, a base level of pay? And if the unions are coming in, they are literally rearranging the chairs on the Titanic. And it's that simple. You, if you.

• 58:18David Sacks?

  Well, both the beer industry and Hollywood are both shrinking industries. And so when you got unions demanding more, more, more of a shrinking pie, something's gonna break. Now, look, just to be clear, I'm in favor of unions demanding things like better working conditions and healthcare and just like the basics.

• 58:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:34David Sacks?

  But, you know, when they try to go for things like, I don't know, banning AI and.

• 58:39Speaker 00

  Weird.

• 58:39David Sacks?

  And proposals that distort the cost structure of the business to the point where it's just not feasible, it's not profitable, that doesn't work.

• 58:46Speaker 00

  Also, the question is, white collar workers who can move so freely between jobs.

• 58:52David Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 58:52Speaker 00

  So elite. Why would any white collar worker who is learning and sharpening their blade and increasing their value year after year, why would they even want to join a union? There was a podcast union that started in Spotify and Gimlet Media, all of this stuff. And one of the podcasts, I think it was Reply All, they didn't want to join the union. Cause they're like, well, we're overcompensated, we're a hit show. And then they were all claimed that they were.

• 59:18David Sacks?

  Look at what's happening in the schools.

• 59:19Chamath Palihapitiya?

  But can we steel man?

• 59:20David Sacks?

  You can't get rid of a bad teacher because they're in the union. So it's like a huge proceeding.

• 59:25Speaker 00

  So they put them in a building.

• 59:26David Sacks?

  Right.

• 59:26Speaker 00

  Where the incompetent teachers.

• 59:27Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Can we actually steel man the pro case of joining a union in 2023?

• 59:33Speaker 00

  I mean, if you could get benefits. Benefits, like some basic level of benefits?

• 59:38Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Free break?

• 59:40David Friedberg?

  Look, I, I think that the pitch, and Jake Al, this is why I asked you this a few episodes ago, you know, tell us your experience having grown up in a family that I think unions are pretty proliferant in these.

• 59:52Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Cops, firemen.

• 59:53David Friedberg?

  Cops, firemen.

• 59:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, if you are.

• 59:54David Friedberg?

  The pitch is you're you're part of a membership. You have a voice and that voice always is your advocate. And that that advocate looks out for benefits, comp, time off, whether or not and how you get fired, all the things that you feel you may be unfairly treated by management. There's nothing novel here.

• 1:00:11David Sacks?

  I don't know.

• 1:00:11David Friedberg?

  It's a it's a strong, appealing point.

• 1:00:13David Sacks?

  Yeah, so I don't know if that's the best steel man for it because because look, employee, it's it's a competitive labor market if you have skills that companies want. So you should be able to negotiate for a lot of these things yourself. I think the steel man case for unions and the reason why they formed in the first place is because American industry was basically owned by an oligopoly. They were themselves monopolies. So if you have a monopoly of industries like US Steel or Standard Oil, then there's not a competitive labor market. They just set the prices, they set the conditions. That's why the unions got started is you needed a basically monopoly of labor to face off against a monopoly of business. That's how it got started. And I think in those conditions, we're talking about the early 1900s.

• 1:00:56Speaker 00

  People were losing limbs in factories.

• 1:00:58David Sacks?

  Yeah, of course. It was very different working conditions.

• 1:01:00Speaker 00

  Different working conditions.

• 1:01:00David Sacks?

  But now you're talking about much more competitive industries. But look, you know.

• 1:01:05David Friedberg?

  Yeah, there was a great deal of like manual labor needed to get productivity out of businesses and enterprise. So, you know, so much of industry changed where things became automated, where there became specialization and differentiation amongst the workforce. And it wasn't everyone is just using their arms to do things. And, you know, this is obviously now measurable. And the idea that you can basically, you know, capture management or do a hostile takeover of the corporation or the equity, I I think is effectively what's happened with a lot of these these.

• 1:01:32Speaker 00

  And I'll be honest, knowing what I know about unions, if you were to do a deep dive into, you know, the police unions or the firefighter unions or the sanitation unions or the teacher unions, and you look at their pensions and their overtime, you would see some pretty significant abuse that the unions have built up over years to where people can make three or $400,000 a year in the last two or three years. They goose that up because then they base their pension on the average of the last three years. And what basically happens is all the senior guys say, listen, all overtime goes to these three guys who are retiring in three years and none of the junior guys can take any overtime. And when it's your turn,

• 1:02:12David Friedberg?

  Right.

• 1:02:12Speaker 00

  You get that all that and then we're going to goose your pay. So

• 1:02:16David Friedberg?

  And what that does unreasonably

• 1:02:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:02:18David Friedberg?

  Is the pension calculation, the pay into the pension is based on some assumption of today. As that starts to happen, the pensions become underfunded because they no longer have enough capital to make all the disbursements that are supposed to happen. And there's a big argument now that there's probably over a trillion dollars of underfunded pension liabilities in the United States, many of which are based on the fact that these payout principles were defined by some negotiation with a union.

• 1:02:42Speaker 00

  And they're games. And there's a large difference between somebody writing a listicle or rewriting a Washington Post story in business, a listicle. Listicle? A listicle. Yeah, somebody rewriting a listicle in BuzzFeed or, you know, somebody rewriting a Wall Street Journal paywall story in Business Insider. Sounds almost like testicle. Then somebody running into a, running into a burning building or, you know,

• 1:03:05David Friedberg?

  Right.

• 1:03:05Speaker 00

  Um, having a target on their back as a cop in San Francisco. These are very different jobs and the white collar knowledge workers are lasting what? What's the average tenure right now? Thirty-six months? Less. Thirty months? I mean, you're obviously moving from place to place. What's the point of the union?

• 1:03:22David Sacks?

  It's a competitive labor market and to your point, it's true that in some cases the unions do get a better deal for their members. However, there is a dead weight loss for the union itself because the union's representing its own interests.

• 1:03:35Speaker 00

  One and a half percent.

• 1:03:36David Sacks?

  So they're taking something off the top too.

• 1:03:38Speaker 00

  They got to skim. They're skimming. They got to pay the vig.

• 1:03:40David Sacks?

  If you watched that Scorsese movie, was it The Irishman?

• 1:03:42Speaker 00

  Irishman, yeah.

• 1:03:43David Sacks?

  You really get a taste of the corruption that was involved.

• 1:03:45Speaker 00

  There was some skimming going on. Everybody gets a little skim. All of a sudden, one and a half times.

• 1:03:48David Sacks?

  But then also the pension fund starts getting, you know, rolled into mob projects or whatever. I mean, that's like a while ago, but.

• 1:03:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, I

• 1:03:57David Sacks?

  There were some significant downsides.

• 1:03:58Speaker 00

  My view of it is, we lived in a decade of surplus elites, you know, having these luxury jobs, and I'll put in the luxury jobs being a journalist, being a venture capitalist, you know, these elitist luxury jobs, and in some of them, they became so wildly overcompensated, I think they wanted to feel oppressed, they wanted to feel like they needed representation, and I think they were LARPing, to use the term again, live-action role-playing, that they were going to be in a union. Like, they wanted-

• 1:04:27David Sacks?

  They're LARPing as being victims.

• 1:04:29Speaker 00

  Right. They wanted to, like, literally, the Business Insider people were putting up pictures of Henry Blodgett and his energy-

• 1:04:35David Sacks?

  They were LARPing grievances.

• 1:04:36Speaker 00

  Yes, and they're on the street, holding a picket sign up, and I'm like, what's the matter? Is your keyboard not ergonomic enough at home?

• 1:04:43David Sacks?

  Right.

• 1:04:44Speaker 00

  You haven't been to an office in three fucking years.

• 1:04:46David Sacks?

  They didn't get the latest flavor of kind bars or whatever.

• 1:04:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, they didn't get the cherry, the cranberry walnut.

• 1:04:53David Friedberg?

  Q you.

• 1:04:53Speaker 00

  Q you, kind bars. I mean, like, leave the unions for the people who are actually on the front lines, it's-

• 1:04:59David Sacks?

  Let's lose a favor.

• 1:05:00Speaker 00

  Alright, so, I think, well, we could wrap.

• 1:05:02David Friedberg?

  Good wrap. Should we wrap?

• 1:05:03Speaker 00

  It's probably wrap time, I think.

• 1:05:04David Friedberg?

  Do you want to do a quick science corner update? I got a lot of texts this week.

• 1:05:08Speaker 00

  Room temp superconductor?

• 1:05:09David Friedberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:09Speaker 00

  Oh, there is a, actually, it's a very interesting work control.

• 1:05:14David Friedberg?

  Episodes ago, if you don't remember, you kind of can go back and watch it, where I talked a little bit about the effort to try and identify a material that can be superconducting at room temperature, which means no resistance, electrons can flow through the material with no resistance, perfect electricity transfer across distance, and also enables the Meissner effect, where magnetic waves can reflect off of the material, which can allow things like levitating trains, which is very low-friction transportation, all these benefits of superconducting materials, quantum computing, et cetera. So, yesterday, and I've gotten literally dozens of emails and notes about this in the last 12 hours, there was a paper published by a team in South Korea- Who seem like a very legit team.

• 1:05:56David Friedberg?

  There's no reason why they would kind of make a fraudulent claim. That there is a material that they've identified and measured to show has superconducting properties at room temperature and ambient pressure. Where a lot of these efforts historically have been made at room temperature, but they use 200 times atmospheric pressure to compress it. And it turns out that this material that they're using is a lead apatite, which is a hexagonal crystal that uses calcium phosphate and lead. And that some of the calcium, the lead gets replaced with copper. And the copper causes the hexagon, the crystal structure to compress a little bit. That compressed crystal allows the electrons to flow through. This is their theoretical explanation on what's going on. It will be replicated.

• 1:06:39David Friedberg?

  People will try and do what they are now claiming they did to demonstrate this. There was some condensed matter physics people that sent me an email and said they don't think that this is real. They have great deal of skepticism. But sorry, let me just say two things about this. You can read the paper. You can read the paper. It's on the internet. The cameraman is asleep. Zach's put his glasses on. He's sleeping behind here. He's just horse sleeping. Let me say two things. Firstly, I think it's unlikely that these guys are going to make a fraudulent claim. If they did make a fraudulent claim, it would be the end of their careers. Their reputation would be damaged. So that may happen. If they did not make a fraudulent claim. Like the president of Stanford? If they did not make a fraudulent claim and it is, and it does turn out to be real,

• 1:07:20David Friedberg?

  then I do think it'll end up being the, the most important discovery in physics of this century. Okay. So it's either a complete utter fraud. Right. Or it changes the universe.

• 1:07:33Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I want to say something serious.

• 1:07:34David Friedberg?

  Look, I know you guys, I know you guys are joking about it, but we talked about the importance of this material in technology. Yes, it's a real thing. And everyday life and energy.

• 1:07:41Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I want to build on top of what you're saying. The thing that you're saying, the more generalized concept is we have such a poor understanding of the periodic table, just broadly speaking.

• 1:07:50David Friedberg?

  Of condensed matter, of physics. There's so much about physics and quantum mechanics that are still, we are just literally poking around.

• 1:07:57Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Poking around.

• 1:07:58David Friedberg?

  Trying to figure out what's going on. And that's what led to this discovery, supposed discovery.

• 1:08:01Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I've made this analogy before, but if you take the periodic table and it actually kind of looks like the United States of America. We have like a really good sense of like the upper northwest and like the east coast. And otherwise we don't know anything. And I think it was about two and a half years ago, right? The beginning of the pandemic, there were these three guys and I that started with this idea of just building some machine learning. To experiment in silica around different materials, right? And can you guess physical properties? And if you think these properties are better at a certain thing, can we then go and actually make samples and figure it out? And we pointed it at batteries. And we said, let's just take the cheapest form of batteries, LFP, lithium, right? That's used in the Model 3. And let's make better LFP.

• 1:08:45Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And what we're finding is, holy shit, like, we don't know anything. And there are these like really big breakthroughs, one which we'll probably announce in like the next few weeks because we just raised a bunch of money around this idea. But it's all just people experimenting better and smarter. And really what you find is that there just aren't enough of those people doing it. And so the cycle time is just too long.

• 1:09:05Speaker 00

  Well, and this is where AI can actually have some, it's incredible gains.

• 1:09:09Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Transformational.

• 1:09:10Speaker 00

  As AI gets smarter.

• 1:09:12Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Transformational.

• 1:09:12Speaker 00

  You put in the inputs, you give it the data set. We don't know what it's going to come up with and it could profoundly.

• 1:09:18Chamath Palihapitiya?

  The, the better version of.

• 1:09:20Speaker 00

  Increase our understanding of this.

• 1:09:22David Friedberg?

  Part of what this, this Korean team did is they, they had a separate paper that they published talking about the demonstration of using AI to try and be predictive around quantum mechanics, which is something that people have said, we can't really do quantum modeling until we get quantum computers. And so there, there has been this, this belief that once we get quantum computers, we'll be able to understand the physics of, of the quantum scale and be able to do modeling that will allow us to do more discovery. But we are still very much just poking around and theorizing. And every cycle, by the way, in superconductor research, there's a different theory on what causes superconductivity. And it shows so, uh, how little we do actually know.

• 1:09:58Chamath Palihapitiya?

  So these guys, basically when we were trying to build, so if you, if you look at like a Tesla Model S, right? Or Model X, these are NMC or NCA batteries, right? Very, very, very energy rich, but also very expensive and very complicated batteries. That won't scale to the average everyday car. And what was crazy in our attempt to take LFP, which is the cheap version and make it as, keep the cheapness, but as energy dense as NMC and NCA. We ended up doping it with all kinds of random stuff that you would have never guessed in a million years. Given billions of dollars, you would, you needed computers to go off and actually make these guesses. So this idea that we're going to find all this stuff at the periodic table, bumbling around, I think is such an interesting part of the physical sciences.

• 1:10:43David Friedberg?

  And again, this will lead to infinite energy storage in batteries.

• 1:10:47Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:47David Friedberg?

  You can put electricity into a battery if you had a superconducting battery. And it would cycle forever.

• 1:10:52Chamath Palihapitiya?

  No resistance.

• 1:10:53David Friedberg?

  And then you could just plug in and get the energy back out. So imagine infinite storage on batteries.

• 1:10:57Chamath Palihapitiya?

  You have to reinvent circuitry completely?

• 1:11:00David Friedberg?

  So you can, there are already superconducting circuits that are used in quantum computers and other high-end applications, but because they're so expensive to cool and so expensive to operate, they're not ubiquitous, but the power of having them be ubiquitous would be extraordinary. For computing, for discovery, for AI, for modeling, the applications of what we'll end up discovering because of the modeling, we can now do it a more ubiquitous way is going to be incredible. These are very profound moments when they do, and if they do happen, we should be excited, optimistic, but obviously very, very cautious about where and when this may happen. Yeah.

• 1:11:33Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I really love you.

• 1:11:34Speaker 00

  What an incredible week.

• 1:11:35Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I'm so, so thankful that you guys came and showed up. It really means a lot to me. Thank you.

• 1:11:39Speaker 00

  Fantastic. Yeah.

• 1:11:40David Friedberg?

  Incredible week.

• 1:11:41Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I really love you guys. Thank you very, very much for that.

• 1:11:43Speaker 00

  All right. We'll see everybody at the All In Summit.

• 1:11:46Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Oh my gosh.

• 1:11:47Speaker 00

  Yum, yum.

• 1:11:48Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Is it like in, is it like six weeks?

• 1:11:50Speaker 00

  More, a little more.

• 1:11:51Chamath Palihapitiya?

  You have a new, you have a new person to announce?

• 1:11:55David Friedberg?

  I, I will announce it and then we'll take it out if it's not okay, but we did confirm Ray Dalio, so we'll add him to the speaker list. We've got a few other guests that we're not going to announce. That will be last minute fun surprises for everyone.

• 1:12:04Speaker 00

  Always some fun surprises at the end.

• 1:12:06David Friedberg?

  I'm really excited to have Ray Dalio.

• 1:12:07Speaker 00

  We're closing in on that.

• 1:12:08David Friedberg?

  Yeah. How's the party's going for the summit?

• 1:12:10Speaker 00

  For the parties, we, we have narrowed down to three themes we think are going to be a lot of fun. Opening night, Sunday night, the day before the event starts, September 10th, I think that is.

• 1:12:18David Friedberg?

  You have locations yet?

• 1:12:19Speaker 00

  Uh, we are negotiating the final contracts with the locations. We've got about a dozen of them and we're going to narrow it down to the three that give us the best flexibility. We'll have the floor plans, uh, which is the last step.

• 1:12:31David Friedberg?

  You know, you got like six weeks, right?

• 1:12:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, no, it's, we have more than enough options now. So, uh, Sunday night will be-

• 1:12:36David Friedberg?

  J Cal's handling the parties, not me.

• 1:12:38Speaker 00

  I'm doing the parties. She's your never.

• 1:12:39Chamath Palihapitiya?

  You want to hear a great All In Summit story?

• 1:12:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, but let me just go through the three, um, the three party themes. So, opening night is going to be Bestie Royale, uh, the Bestie Who Love Me, a James Bond theme.

• 1:12:48Chamath Palihapitiya?

  So what is that? Tuxedos?

• 1:12:49David Friedberg?

  White tuxedos.

• 1:12:50Speaker 00

  White tuxedos, or you could go as a Bond girl, or you could go as Austin Powers, anything in that theme, casino games.

• 1:12:56Chamath Palihapitiya?

  But no black tuxedo?

• 1:12:57Speaker 00

  You can go black tuxedo, you can go white tuxedo. You could go Daniel Craig, you could go Sean Connery, Roger Moore, you pick. You can go as a villain. You go whatever you want.

• 1:13:05Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I like the black tux. I've tried the white tux. It doesn't-

• 1:13:07Speaker 00

  You can do it. Yeah, you go, do you.

• 1:13:08Chamath Palihapitiya?

  For me, I look like a waiter.

• 1:13:10Speaker 00

  And so it'd be like a spy.

• 1:13:12Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I'd like the yacht club of San Francisco.

• 1:13:13Speaker 00

  And then Monday night, we have a. He's gonna wear his bucket hat. Monday night is gonna be bestie club, breakfast club, big eighties. The location is incredible. I won't say it, but um. Not to be confused with Fight Club where J. K. and I get in a ring. No, not a Fight Club. Smash each other to bits. Yeah, that wouldn't last very long. Um, bestie club.

• 1:13:30David Sacks?

  We worked everything out at the board meeting?

• 1:13:32Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Yeah, did we work everything out between the two of you?

• 1:13:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, everything's good. Board meeting's great. We're in sync.

• 1:13:35Chamath Palihapitiya?

  You were embracing afterwards. I saw the two of you embracing.

• 1:13:38Speaker 00

  Of course we hugged each other, yes. I tried to give him a hug. It was awkward hug. He didn't fully let me in. Oh, it was like, you ever see 3PO trying to give Han Solo a hug?

• 1:13:46Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Does like this.

• 1:13:46Speaker 00

  He's like, oh, uh, there's a 472 to one chance that you're my bestie. Oh. Um, and then the last night will be bestie runner, a Blade Runner send up, a cyberpunk theme. Wear your best cyberpunk.

• 1:13:59Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Oh, you must have a good like punch up person for this kind of stuff. Like you have a person that we can?

• 1:14:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's got a art director. He's got one. He's got a stylist. He's got a costume department. Costume department in the, in the Maltalam. No, that's level two in the basement. Sub level two in the basement is the costumes. So Zach, you know how you haven't been to that level in your elevator? Yeah, level two is costumes. Those are costumes. Yeah, level three is sets.

• 1:14:19Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Okay, I'll tell you a quick story. All in Summit, I'm walking in the streets of Milan, me, Nat, ****, and ****, we're wa- we're walking just on Via Montenapoleone in Milan. And I hear, "Chama!" And I turn around, it's Damian Bertrand, the CEO of Loro Piana. And he, and so he comes, he's like, "We're so excited to be a part of the All in Summit." And I'm like, "Oh my God, this is it."

• 1:14:41Speaker 00

  I didn't tell you this.

• 1:14:42Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Oh. Oh, it's not happening?

• 1:14:44Speaker 00

  No, no, it is. I know. They're cushioning every seat with, uh. No, no, no, don't ruin it.

• 1:14:49Chamath Palihapitiya?

  No, I'm not gonna ruin it.

• 1:14:50Speaker 00

  Don't ruin it. But my team's been working really hard on this.

• 1:14:52Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Anyways, I, I saw Damian. They, they're excited. He's coming.

• 1:14:56Speaker 00

  Yes, he's coming. That's a high-end sponsor.

• 1:14:58Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Well, he's coming. We'll see him.

• 1:14:59Speaker 00

  That's a high-end partner, yeah.

• 1:14:59David Sacks?

  Do we have, um, Moncler?

• 1:15:02Speaker 00

  We, we did, we.

• 1:15:03Chamath Palihapitiya?

  You had every opportunity these last three days to do everything you needed to get a sponsorship from Moncler.

• 1:15:08David Sacks?

  All right, if anyone from Moncler is listening.

• 1:15:10Chamath Palihapitiya?

  What are you talking about?

• 1:15:10Speaker 00

  The guy's right there on the beach.

• 1:15:11Chamath Palihapitiya?

  He's on the beach.

• 1:15:12Speaker 00

  He had the weather. You were just sitting next to him.

• 1:15:14Chamath Palihapitiya?

  He was right there and the person.

• 1:15:15Speaker 00

  Do you see the yacht right there? That's his boat. This is his restaurant. This is his restaurant.

• 1:15:20Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I can't, I can't, I can't.

• 1:15:21Speaker 00

  That's his boat. He was sitting next to him. That's his three days.

• 1:15:23Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I can't do enough. I can't do any more than what I've done for you.

• 1:15:26Speaker 00

  Literally get on the dinghy, go to his boat.

• 1:15:28Chamath Palihapitiya?

  You need to get off your phone.

• 1:15:28Speaker 00

  No, he's sitting right there.

• 1:15:29Chamath Palihapitiya?

  You need to pay attention. Yeah.

• 1:15:31Speaker 00

  Get **** playing. Oh my God.

• 1:15:33Chamath Palihapitiya?

  We're not gonna believe it.

• 1:15:34Speaker 00

  I'm gonna go walk you over after this. Stop playing chess. And you'll be like, "Oh yeah, I know you." No, the funny ****. Bleep it out Nick. Well bleep it out. Here's what happens. The guy, Free Bird comes up, he's in a panic. "Oh, we've got a problem Jake Howe. The production has got a problem. They're gonna kick us out of the restaurant." The guy goes, "I don't think it's gonna be a problem. I can fix it." And Free Bird's like, "How you gonna fix it?" He's like, "Well, I own the restaurant and so I'll ask them..." Yeah, we bought it. "...not to kick you out." And... Not gonna be a problem. No, no, no. Not gonna be a problem. And... He sat beside [BLEEP] for a whole day. Right. Who is on the board. And I said, "David, she's on the board, so if you... this is your moment." You sold out their hats. And this is David. Cut to David. Nick, bleep out the name.

• 1:16:19Speaker 00

  Hold on. Oh, oh, I... Hold on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Peter Thiel and I are... It's in level four of my basement. I'm in a game of blitz with Peter Thiel. Hold on. Blitz. I'm playing blitz chess. My rating is 1600. I've got a terrible hangover. Let's get out of here. Alright, everybody. Live from Portofino, Four Hungover Matthews. Langostria. Thank you, guys. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, everyone. And we will see you next time on the All Ape Podcast. Love you, boys. Thank you. Bye-bye. Love you, besties. Fresh mom. Love you, guys.

• 1:17:29David Sacks?

  Where are your feet?

• 1:17:30Speaker 00

  Feet?

• 1:17:31David Sacks?

  What?

• 1:17:32Speaker 00

  We need to get merch.