E21: Media misalignment, subjects controlling narratives & more with bestie guestie Draymond Green

Follow the besties: https://twitter.com/chamath https://linktr.ee/calacanis https://twitter.com/DavidSacks https://twitter.com/friedberg https://twitter.com/Money23Green Follow the pod: https://twitter.com/theallinpod https://linktr.ee/allinpodcast Intro Music Credit: https://rb.gy/tppkzl https://twitter.com/yung_spielburg Intro Video Credit: https://twitter.com/MikeSylvan Referenced in the show: David Sacks on Tucker Carlson https://youtu.be/MukXS8uaVns Gell-Mann Amnesia https://www.epsilontheory.com/gell-mann-amnesia Show Notes: 0:00 Discussing Sacks' recent hit on Tucker Carlson 7:25 Media misalignment, subjects as sources, new age of journalism 25:53 Bold prediction for the future of media, potential All-In Network, mistrusting everyone except individuals 34:28 Bestie Guestie Draymond Green joins the show to talk dealing with day-to-day NBA life under COVID protocols, the temperature of the nation, issues with the media & more 1:08:02 Mean tweets

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Wet your beak, wet your beak, wet your beak.

• 0:05Jason Calacanis?

  Confirming I am recording, testing, I am testing my recording. And here we go.

• 0:12Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Wet your beak.

• 0:14Jason Calacanis?

  Here we go in three, two.

• 0:18David Sacks?

  Let your winners ride.

• 0:21Speaker 03

  Rain Man David Sacks.

• 0:25David Sacks?

  And it said, we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with it.

• 0:29Speaker 03

  Love you, best.

• 0:34Jason Calacanis?

  Hey, everybody, it's the All In Podcast. Wet your beak, Young Spielberg coming at you on a Friday morning, afternoon, drive time, the number 11 podcast in the world. It's the All In Podcast with the queen of Kenwa, David Friedberg, Rain Man himself, with his hot new track from Young Spielberg, I am the Rain Man, David Sacks, and of course, wetting his beak, the absolute dictator, wetting his beak with his merch, merch game is strong, Chamath Palihapa Tia. How's everybody doing on the backs of us becoming the number 11 podcast in the world?

• 1:20Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Really good, really, really.

• 1:21Jason Calacanis?

  Wow, look at that enthusiasm.

• 1:23Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Really great. No, I think we had an intermittent, uh, uh, Saxipoo is not apparently, you know, with, with all these, with all his week, uh, beak wedding, he hasn't had time to pay the internet bill.

• 1:34David Sacks?

  Hey guys, I'm back.

• 1:35Jason Calacanis?

  You can go ahead and upgrade your DSL from, from 56 kilobits. I think you can afford it. Okay?

• 1:41David Friedberg?

  He's hit his bandwidth limit because he was watching himself on Tucker over and over again this morning. So he like completely ran out of internet.

• 1:47Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I do, I do need to say this, that yesterday, we do have firsthand evidence that David Sacks, after appearing on Tucker Carlson, then spent the next hour watching himself appear on Tucker Carlson.

• 1:59Jason Calacanis?

  Literally got up from the poker table.

• 2:02Chamath Palihapitiya?

  My gosh.

• 2:02Jason Calacanis?

  Refused to play poker with his besties because he had to watch himself on less than six times on Tucker.

• 2:09David Friedberg?

  Oh my gosh. So it must have been, it must have been 20, 30 times, no, no headphones, just listening to the iPhone, looking at it.

• 2:16Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, holding it up to his ear just so he doesn't miss a word, optimizing his performance. What was it like? To go on Fox News, was this a dream for you, Sax? Is this a bucket list?

• 2:26David Sacks?

  See, Jason, this is why you're such a scumbag, because I asked you guys, I said, hey, Tucker Show's inviting me on, should I go? You know, and you guys are like, yeah, yeah, it'll be great for ratings for the pod, you should definitely do it. And then after I do it, the first thing you guys say when I walk in the room is, oh, my God, you went on Tucker? How right wing are you?

• 2:50David Sacks?

  Do you realize that all your deal flow just got canceled? Yum, yum, I'm gonna get all your deals now.

• 2:55Jason Calacanis?

  By the way, that was the funniest part. Jason had premeditated basically getting you to appear on Tucker so as then to impugn you and destroy you.

• 3:05David Sacks?

  Jake out goes, oh, I'm gonna get all your deals now. Yum, yum.

• 3:10Jason Calacanis?

  All is fair when it comes to early stage deal flow.

• 3:13David Sacks?

  Yeah, and then he starts tweeting, you know, he's like the first one to show a photo of me split screen with Tucker.

• 3:19Jason Calacanis?

  I was waiting. I was, I was literally watching. It's time for the great takedown. Actually, you did, in all seriousness, you did great. I think it was worth doing. And he framed it as, I don't know if people saw it, you can look up Tucker Carlson, bestie, David Sacks, it'll come up number one. And he said you were essentially taking a very liberal, classic liberal point of view. So he basically set the stage for you to not be a far right wing nut case. You were actually defending liberal principles of people should have the ability to have freedom of speech. Why don't you talk about what it was like?

• 3:58David Sacks?

  Yeah, I mean, so, so you're right. I mean, he made the, the connection and the comparison to Net Hentoff, who was like the famous ACLU free speech lawyer. And, and I really appreciate that because I do very much see myself in that mold of, of somebody like Hentoff. He wrote a book called Free Speech for Me, But Not For The, sort of a famous line. Because everybody wants free speech for themselves and their allies, but they want to deny it to people they disagree with. And, you know, they never seem to realize that censorship is a problem until it gets turned against them. And so, you know, the point I made about the these Reddit kids who are censored is that, look, this, this was not what they, there were some raunchy speech in their message

• 4:40David Sacks?

  board. We all know that, but it was no different than any trading floor, trading pit or boiler room on Wall Street, right? It's the same kind of language, yet they were taken down and censored by Discord for hate speech. Why? Because they became very threatening to, you know, powerful insiders and, you know, but how many of those, those Reddit kids saw it as a problem when, you know, Trump or his supporters got or Parler got deplatformed a few weeks ago. They could never have imagined that that same censorship principle could ever get turned against them. And, and so we all have a blind spot to towards censorship when we like the results. And, you know, Hentoff's point is always, look, it's not

• 5:20David Sacks?

  about the results. It's about who are you giving the power to censor to? And that's what you have to be really careful of.

• 5:29Jason Calacanis?

  In relation to that, how delightful has it been to not have Trump on Twitter, putting aside, you know, censorship, even for you as a Republican, conservative, but liberal socially, I will note, you're very liberal socially, you're live and let live, pro LBGTQ, of course. And, but to not have Trump on Twitter has been, all that cognitive space has come back. We get it all back.

• 5:58David Sacks?

  Silence, silence is, is bliss.

• 6:02Chamath Palihapitiya?

  What did you guys think? What did you guys think about, what is her name? Marjorie Blabberdy Blah Green, who just got completely censored? What, what exactly happened?

• 6:13David Friedberg?

  Yes, Sax, is that censorship?

• 6:16Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, if you're a crazy loon who believes that Parler shooting was a false flag. What do we do there?

• 6:22David Sacks?

  No, I mean, that's not censorship. It's just she got censured, I guess, because her colleagues thought she was out of line. That's okay. I mean, if her colleagues want to vote for that, that's fine.

• 6:33Jason Calacanis?

  So she can still say crazy stuff. You just can't do it and have this certain job?

• 6:37David Sacks?

  Yeah, I mean, look, let's face it. When politicians say crazy stuff, it helps the other side. I mean, you know, Marjorie Greene or whatever, her censorship, who does that help? It helps the Democrats. You know, quite frankly, does Trump being off Twitter, does that really help Democrats? I don't think so. I mean, you know, you could argue that Biden or that Trump is the one unifying, opposition to Trump is the one unifying force in the Democratic coalition. So the more Trump is out there, the more it bonds the Democratic coalition together. So, yeah, I mean, censorship has this way of like backfiring and you can't

• 7:20David Sacks?

  just look at it in terms of narrow, short-term political results.

• 7:23Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Speaking of censorship, I want to get your take on something else. I think these last two weeks have been a complete sea change in venture capital. And let me give you the setup. It's all of a sudden seemed like there's been a decision that's been made where the ecosystem of companies will basically use their own platforms and their own mediums to completely control the narrative and the dissemination of information about them, that the media in the effort of company building may have taken a big step back. You know, I think the whole sort of like thing on Clubhouse was really interesting. I think this guy

• 8:07Chamath Palihapitiya?

  who just joined Andreessen Horowitz, who actually hosts a show on Clubhouse is really interesting. I think there's some like really interesting emerging managers who just have these incredibly different ways of.

• 8:18Jason Calacanis?

  Sri Ram is his name. He's been hosting good times at 11. 10 or 11 p.m. every night on Clubhouse. Marc Andreessen comes to it every night. And of course Elon came, interviewed Vlad, and then last night Zuckerberg showed up in order to get the blueprints for Clubhouse to then put it into Instagram and Facebook.

• 8:38Chamath Palihapitiya?

  But what do you guys, what do you guys think of sort of like this entire sector of the economy basically trying to, I guess, organize and end around traditional media?

• 8:46David Friedberg?

  It doesn't seem like it's just venture, right? I mean, look at, look at Trump, you know, he avoided having the traditional press conference as the, the, the channel for dissemination of his point of view and communication of his objectives. And he went on Twitter every day and he just tweeted. And I think, you know, anyone who's been part of a business or an operation that's had to deal with, you know, media gathering facts that, that you don't consider to be true and you can't really counter their point and then they publish and it's static and it's out there, you're frustrated. And in the, in the, the world that we have today, which is many alternatives for going direct to our customer and going direct to our audience through social media and having control over that message, it's appealing to make the

• 9:29David Friedberg?

  switch away from traditional PR and going to social. I mean, Chamath, you don't put out press releases. You go on Twitter and you make a, a statement about what your intentions are and you publish your one pagers. And I feel like everyone's trying to do this. And there's all this like trend of big companies now too, which is how do you develop a quote unquote, "social media presence"? You can speak directly to your audience and your customers without having to go through the press.

• 9:50Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I find it very hard to get the point across by going through traditional media. It's not that, it's not that it can't be done, but I find it harder and harder. And the reason is because they're in such a ferocious competition with social media. And so they have to be just as click oriented and news savvy as the next best tweet that's, that's trending at that time. So it's, it's an almost impossible task.

• 10:15David Sacks?

  Well, Naval, Naval had a great line about this, which I think he tweeted a long time ago, which is that the internet commoditized the reporting of facts. And so at that point, the, the traditional media went wholesale into opinions, into opinions. And so now they all have an agenda of some kind. And especially the tech press, their agenda basically is hatred of tech. I mean, they hate the people they're reporting on. I mean, Jake, how you know this, right?

• 10:42Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, I mean, having been a journalist in this, it's really interesting to hear your opinions. And if you look at trust among Republicans, all time low in the press, and then just all Americans don't trust the press right now. They think there's hidden agendas, and it really is a confluence of events. What happened was, the internet caused the revenue streams of the press to get just violently compressed or eliminated. So you know, you had Craigslist take the classified business, Google and Facebook took the ad business, and subscriptions, Netflix, Spotify, etc. So you have all that revenue is gone. And what that meant was,

• 11:22Jason Calacanis?

  they didn't have the resources to do fact checking. And then the publishing schedule, because of blogging, which I was involved in, required that people file two, three, four times a day, just to keep up. And so when you're filing even just twice a day, there is no time to get quotes from the subjects. So we have all, as people who are subjects, had quotes attributed to us that were like, where did you pull that quote from? Like, oh, three years ago, you said this, or whatever. And you don't even know you're going to be in the story. Like, the hit piece they did on you, Chamath, some sports writer in SF Gate did some hit piece on Chamath. Did they ever call you? Did they ever say, would you like to respond to this? That's how you used to work.

• 12:03David Friedberg?

  That's what you learn when you get a degree in journalism, right? You call the subject, you interview.

• 12:07Jason Calacanis?

  Of course. And it used to be you filed once every two weeks, or maybe if you were in a weekly news, like a news week, or a business week, you filed once a week. Magazines, you filed once or twice per episode, per issue, or maybe once every other issue, or feature writer. Now, they have to, they have to publish so much.

• 12:25Chamath Palihapitiya?

  By the way, Jason, you said something-

• 12:27Jason Calacanis?

  They don't do any fact checking.

• 12:28Chamath Palihapitiya?

  You said something really, really important. It's the craziest thing, where these guys will not even call you and say, here's what we're running, or here's what we're going to say. Do you want to work through this with us? Do you want to tell us, are there any inaccuracies? We're really seeking the truth. Nobody's really seeking the truth. They're seeking clicks.

• 12:46Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah. And so here's what happens. The, your salary is now determined by your number of followers on Twitter, as is your book deal. And your sub stack then becomes your negotiating position versus your existing publication. So someone like Kara Swishers, who is not full time at the New York Times, probably makes a half million or a million dollars a year doing her podcast with them in the editorial page. I would say somewhere between 500 K and a million. All the other writers there are looking at other people who've gotten significant followings and saying, I have to get a big following. How do you get a big following? Well, Sacks figured that out. He wasn't, didn't have a huge following on Twitter in the last couple of months. But since we did the podcast, Sacks started having an opinion and picking a side and really owning his opinion.

• 13:29Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And, but in fairness and also being super and super intelligent and thoughtful about it.

• 13:33Jason Calacanis?

  Of course, but anybody picking a side gets rewarded. And if you go down the middle, you don't get rewarded because people go, that makes sense.

• 13:42Chamath Palihapitiya?

  But then I think that people, then people should just be using facts as a jumping off point as opposed to like weaving it into the narrative so that other folks get confused. Meaning, you know, it used to be the case that a newspaper has an opinion page. Well, no, now the whole newspaper is opinions.

• 13:56Jason Calacanis?

  Correct.

• 13:56Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Because the facts you can just get from the AP, right? Like there's, there's no point calling the New York Times to figure out what the hell is going on in the world.

• 14:03Jason Calacanis?

  They should be doing is deep analysis.

• 14:05David Friedberg?

  Yeah, like that New York Times article that you brought up a couple of weeks ago, Chamath, that we talked about on the pod was about the, the, the trust fund kids who are giving away all their money. You know, it wasn't an analysis of how many people with this amount of wealth are giving away their money. It was anecdotes to make the case that this is the storyline that they kind of wanted to, to progress. And, you know, that is, I think the, where you're able to kind of stay within the bounds of traditional journalism, but still, you know, get a narrative across that is a bit sensational and it is a bit kind of, you know, inspiring.

• 14:37Jason Calacanis?

  And Friedberg, all you need to do, having been on the inside of these discussions is when you have one person, it's a profile as an example. When you have two, it's still a kind of a profile with an example, but once you get to three, you got a trend piece. And so what your editors say to you is, if you can get me a third person who's a trust fund kid, now we got a trend piece and we're in the clear. So let's do that and do the anecdotes instead of actual research, which then takes time and resources. And if you look what Andreessen Horowitz has specifically done with Clubhouses, and it's really freaked out some New York Times reporters, I won't say which ones, because every time I mention this one reporter, she pulls the female reporter card. And she pulled it last night where she said, I'm a female reporter, I can block Mark Andreessen.

• 15:20Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 15:20Jason Calacanis?

  I'm not going to say who it is because she gets really upset.

• 15:22Chamath Palihapitiya?

  It's Taylor Lawrence, but she, I mean, she, yeah, she tweeted it. So I don't think she's hiding from it.

• 15:27Jason Calacanis?

  She does it to me. And I didn't want to bring up her name because now bringing up her name, she will, I guarantee you tweet.

• 15:33Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Well, can I say something about?

• 15:34Jason Calacanis?

  I'm being harassed by Jason Calacanis because I'm a woman. She's saying that Mark Andreessen and Andreessen Horowitz blocked her from their clubhouse room. When you're blocked from a clubhouse room, you don't get access. So she said, I'm going to make my own shadow account. She did make a puppet account. Now she's listening in and she got upset at me because I told people in a room, hey, there's a New York Times reporter in the room. Just be careful because this could wind up in print. She called that harassment and gender based harassment.

• 15:59David Sacks?

  And the thing they're complaining about now is that all of us are trying to go around them and just tell our stories directly. And so they're all enraged. They're saying, how dare Mark Andreessen or, you know, A16Z, you know, not talk to us. It's like, well, why should they? I mean, you know, my experience with the press has been that about 75% of the time when they ask me for comment on something, it ends up being a hit piece. Maybe not on me, but on some, something I care about. And they, they twist what you say or take one little quote out of context to support the article and you end up giving credence to an article that you completely disagree with. And so, and so all of us have just stopped taking those calls. I mean, we just know, we just know

• 16:43David Sacks?

  there's such an agenda behind most of these calls that we just like, don't take them anymore.

• 16:49Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah.

• 16:49David Sacks?

  That's, that's why we're going direct.

• 16:51Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Yeah. I'll say one thing about Taylor Lawrence. I, I've learned a lot because I feel like, you know, being 44, I'm kind of out of the know.

• 16:58Jason Calacanis?

  Yes.

• 16:58Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And I've learned a lot because she is, she has her finger on the pulse of Taylor. I mean, it's really, it's been really fun reading her, uh, reading her stuff. The other thing I'll say is on the Andreessen thing, I think what they have finally stumbled into, like, I remember when, you know, Andreessen started about a year before I started Social Capital. And I remember the whole push was, you know, multi-services, right? And they were going to be recruiting and sales and this and that. You know, I suspect that all of that was kind of like pretty meager ROI and not that it just burned a ton of fees. But I think this thing that they're doing is really smart because if they effectively build their own distribution arm through newsletters, Substack, podcasts, you know,

• 17:40Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Clubhouse shows, whatever, that's a force to be reckoned with because then if you're a venture investor, you either have to be like them with their own version, in which case the brand of Andreessen really matters, or you're on this path of where the trend of venture is already going, which is solo GPs and individual people are the brands. And there's going to be very little space in the middle. So for example, like, I do think that like, you know, the All In Podcast helps, for example, David in craft, or Jason, you in launch, but you guys also-

• 18:11Jason Calacanis?

  The syndicate is going crazy.

• 18:13Chamath Palihapitiya?

  But and you guys also stand alone as individuals. But, you know, if you're a traditional firm, you know, pick your organization, which neither has brands nor has distribution. What are you doing? Well, you're probably forced to just pay the highest price. And so those returns for those folks in the middle get really bad, I think, over time. And you at some point have to decide, are you an individual person? Right? And there's like some amazing up and coming GPs, we know them, Lucky Groom, folks like that. Or are you Andreessen Horowitz with this massive distribution?

• 18:45Jason Calacanis?

  Well, I mean, and now we have to just, I think, face the reality that we are in competition. And I think that's what is making the press even more, that's what makes the situation even more complicated. I'm not saying the press is targeting people they consider competitive, but the press is not getting Vlad, Elon, or Zuck for interviews. But because Marc Andreessen has, you know, Clubhouse now, they put themselves on the suggested follower list. Just like Twitter put Ohm, Kara Swisher, and some other journalists on the suggested follower list for Twitter. What that was, was it was payment, basically, like a million followers. Now Andreessen has a million followers, Bellagio, all these folks from Andreessen, I believe, have like a-

• 19:26Jason Calacanis?

  Million followers. So the press is complaining about that as well because they can then dominate them in terms of getting subjects. So they've lost the subjects. None of us get on the phone with the press with very few exceptions. And where is Sway or Vox or Ezra Klein when compared to our podcast? Right? Like we're right up there with them, if not ahead of them. I mean, we're the number one tech podcast. So it's it's pretty crazy when you think about how much their world has changed. And now they're directly in competition with Andreessen Horowitz All In Podcast. You know, pick the firm doing a venture thing and that's going to make this even more contentious.

• 20:01David Sacks?

  Yes, I totally agree with that, but I also, I do think fundamentally that all of us wouldn't have felt the same need to go around them if we didn't feel that there was such a strong agenda. Just to bring, have you guys heard of Gelman Amnesia Effect? Michael Crichton, okay, so Michael Crichton, you know, who wrote Jurassic Park and like a true polymath and genius, right?

• 20:23Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah, Airframe, very good, by the way.

• 20:25David Sacks?

  I mean, so many brilliant things. He was even a Hollywood director, true multi-talented guy. Anyway, he described the Gelman Amnesia Effect as follows. He says, you open the newspaper to an article on some subject you know well. So in this case, it was a physics paper by on Gelman. Okay.

• 20:44Jason Calacanis?

  Oh, I do know this. Yeah.

• 20:45David Sacks?

  Yeah. He says, he says, you read the article and see the journalist has absolutely no understanding of either the facts or the issues. Often the article is so wrong, it actually presents the story backwards, reversing cause and effect. I call these the wet streets cause rain stories. The paper is full of them. Okay. In any case, you read with exasperation or amusement, the multiple errors in a story. But then you turn the page to some other section to national, international affairs. And you read the rest of the paper as if it was somehow more accurate.

• 21:17Jason Calacanis?

  Totally.

• 21:18David Sacks?

  You turn the page and forget what you know, which is that the journalist just gets so much wrong. And, and I think, you know, and all of us kind of suffer from Gelman Amnesia sometimes because we still, I think, take, when we read something in the paper, we take it at face value. And I think, but we all know that when it comes to tech reporting or whatever, there's so much misinformation that gets put out by these official channels. And I think at the end of the day, what's happening now with these end run around the traditional media, it's all a response to Gelman Amnesia.

• 21:52David Friedberg?

  I think it's a problem of complexity. Um, you know, I, I remember years ago, I would, when I was younger, I would read the paper or read um, magazines about the science and um, engineering and I was, you know, really interested in these topics and it was only years later when I actually realized how wrong so many of those articles were as I started to read the original scientific research papers. But it takes a skill set and it takes a significant amount more time to really go into depth into those papers and to actually read them. The same is true, as you point out with like, you know, geopolitical issues, like the complexity of what goes on.

• 22:26Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah. Um, you know, informations. Here's what I learned when I was a journalist. We would have about 10 to 20% of the information about what occurred when we've published our first story. And then maybe every subsequent follow-up, we get another 10%. Which means if we were really hooked into a story and we did five versions of that story, we might get to 40%, 50% understanding. Whereas when the four of us are doing a deal and then you see this impact, you, you know, the press is getting it completely wrong and that was fine if you felt the press was fair.

• 23:00David Friedberg?

  Right.

• 23:00Jason Calacanis?

  And that's what's happening is now there, it, it, there's a distinct feeling with subjects that they're being treated unfairly. And what I do, when somebody connects to me and they say, hey, can you comment on Robin or whatever, I said, I can't. But I do have a great story for you about a world positive startup. And I kept doing this with Teddy, who kept asking me to give information on friends of mine, you know, the guy from uh, Rico or whatever, who covers like philanthropy. And every time they contact me, I say, yeah, you know, I can't comment on that, but you can talk to the founder, but I have three world positive stories. Are you interested in any of them? And I just do that kinda to troll them and they've never, in five years, taken me up on profiling a world positive. So if the press wants to turn this around, a very simple solution is one for you, one of your hate stories. So if you, for every time you want to take down a company, maybe write about one company

• 23:46Jason Calacanis?

  that's doing something good. There's some company doing something in carbon sequestering right now. That is super valid and world positive, write about it. The only time they write about Tesla is when Elon trips or, you know, something, somebody dies in a car or they write about Uber because of some tragedy.

• 24:00David Friedberg?

  Sorry, I just want to say like, Jason, like. Just going back a second, like your point is one about bias, which is, you know, creating sensationalism, sell stories. It's what consumers want to consume.

• 24:09Jason Calacanis?

  Sure.

• 24:09David Friedberg?

  At the end of the day, so there's certainly, you know, a market driven model there. The point I was trying to make earlier is there's also a separate problem around complexity, which is complex issues take time and take depth to truly understand. And so to really understand what's going on in the Middle East or what's going on inside of a company like Facebook requires more than a five paragraph journal article. It requires some hours of conversation and dialogue. And I think, by the way, the craving for that depth, which delivers truth and understanding is what, you know, podcasts can provide and Clubhouse is providing long form content that allows you to go into the nuance and into the texture and into the depth of what's going on in the world. As opposed to having the five paragraphs littered with ads BuzzFeed article

• 24:51David Friedberg?

  that says something sensational, but it simplifies something to the point that it's often wrong or completely misses the real depth of what's going on. And, you know, it's like, and I think that, I think they're both, they're both, they're both kind of playing into each other.

• 25:03Jason Calacanis?

  And then I want to give a prediction.

• 25:04David Sacks?

  They're both, what you're describing are both issues. And I think they're related in the following sense, that if you were to go to like any of these reporters, like the people that Jake Al mentioned a couple of names, okay? If you were to filter their bylines and see all of their, not, not one story, but look at like all of the headlines for all their stories over, say, the past year, you will definitely see a trend. They will all, they will all have, you know, like

• 25:29Jason Calacanis?

  Negative.

• 25:30David Sacks?

  For certain reporters, it'll be a hundred percent negative about tech, zero percent positive.

• 25:34Jason Calacanis?

  I mean, Aaron Griffin, I think, is the reporter who's one of the top tech reporters at the New York Times. It's just like Coinbase, Coinbase away.

• 25:41David Sacks?

  Yeah, exactly. So when's the last time they wrote a positive story? So there is this huge agenda there and, and I think it prevents people from getting into the complexity because it's a lot easier to write, you know.

• 25:52Jason Calacanis?

  Here's the prediction, and then to make a bold prediction here. The media companies are gonna, you know, they're obviously picking a side. They obviously went subscription. Now they're dealing with Substack, Clubhouse, Podcast, all chipping away. I think what's going to happen is you're going to see media brands built around certain podcasts, and they're going to work subject first. In other words, the subject of the story are going to create media property. So if you look at what we've done with All In, and obviously I have This Week in Startups, if we did the Friedberg on Science podcast, and it was just Friedberg explaining a science topic, and then we did Chamath on Public Markets, and then we did Sacks on alt-right conspiracy theories, and we just had five pods. Or it could be something else. I don't know. Guns.

• 26:38Jason Calacanis?

  I don't know. Pro-life. I don't know what Sacks is into, but you know. No, Sacks could do something on SaaS. So Sacks on SaaS, Friedberg on Science, Chamath on Thirst Traps. This Week in Startups. Then we have All In. That's five, five full pods of an hour and a half each. If each of you did your own pod, and I have my pod, and we made the All In Network, the All In News Network, I guarantee you, we would be, within five years, you know, right up there with CNN and MSNBC.

• 27:08Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Well, one thing that Jason and I have been toying with now is I really do want to start a Twitch channel. And I think part of why is I'd like to really actually have more conversations about, you know, companies and stocks and...

• 27:24Jason Calacanis?

  With youth, with the youths.

• 27:26Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Yeah, with the youths and like, you know, really get into the details. And like also when we, you know, partner with a company, bring them on the show so that we can spend an hour or two and talk about things in detail, it's totally lost. And the crazy thing that I realized for me is, near to your point, Jason, like, you know, we have enough distribution now where millions of people can see it. And if that has real impact, because, you know, you can allow people to judge. And I'm not necessarily saying we're better or worse than anybody else, but if we're not using it for the express purpose of selling ads necessarily and getting paid, I do think there's a better likelihood that it's, that the outcome is better.

• 28:05Jason Calacanis?

  Well, I mean, a big part of the success of this has been the banning of guests and the banning of

• 28:09Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Banning of ads.

• 28:10Jason Calacanis?

  And banning of ads. People really have responded to that. And I think if we put a Twitch channel up and we just throw in All In, throw in This Week in Startups, and then, you know, a Sacks, you know, point, counterpoint show, and I'm being sincere, Friedberg, just Friedberg on Science, and, you know, that's five shows. And we just say every Friday, there's going to be five shows, like, this is your weekend, and we're going to loop it, and there'll be a Q and A. I guarantee you, we could get five other besties to do shows, you know? And we would be number one immediately.

• 28:39David Friedberg?

  Didn't you guys originally, like, so for the audience that doesn't know this, originally, the All In podcast was Chamath and Jason. They were talking about doing a show together. And then COVID hit, and they, I think you guys asked me on the Pod Zero to talk about COVID stuff. But what was the original goal you guys had? You know, Chamath, isn't that what you wanted to do originally, was to have kind of a direct audience and a direct conversation about, you know, whatever it is you wanted to talk about, where you could have this kind of long-form dialogue? You know, what did you guys, why did you guys want to do it in the first place? I mean, wasn't that kind of the idea?

• 29:14Chamath Palihapitiya?

  I'll tell you what, what sort of like my general viewpoint is, which is that, like, we are atomizing our affinity. So I think that, like, we've gone from believing in institutions, and now I think we fundamentally mistrust institutions. Then we spent 30 or 40 years believing in companies. And now I think we basically don't believe in companies anymore. And now we're sort of at the, at the, at the bleeding edge of what, where belief and trust exist, which is at an individual person level.

• 29:46Jason Calacanis?

  Ownership, accountability.

• 29:48Chamath Palihapitiya?

  So, so like, you know, I, and I think that when an individual has the potential to not just be about something for themselves, but also for themes that other people care about, that's when you get real heat. And obviously, the most impressive example of that is Elon, because, you know, E represents exploration, engineering, science, climate change, you know,

• 30:10Jason Calacanis?

  Memes.

• 30:10Chamath Palihapitiya?

  All, all of this stuff. Not really, not really. These other things are really what matters. No. And so, and so what it shows people is like, I just want to find affinity around a few key people. And what he is, is not the end state. He's the beginning of the beginning. Right? So what's going to happen is all of us will say, I don't trust institutions. So whatever they put out is just going to be corpo. I don't trust companies. What they say is going to be corpo. I'm going to take my best shot at finding folks that I think are real. Yep. And I'm just going to get, that's the thing. That's why I wanted to do this with Jason. And then with the four of us, I think what happened almost accidentally is

• 30:54Chamath Palihapitiya?

  it's like a real plurality of views. And, and you don't have to agree with all of us. And frankly, no, nobody does. And we don't generally agree a hundred percent. But I think that's what's happening. So I think we're another, much smaller than Elon, but another example of you're going to want to find your own truth tellers, you know, folks that you will get behind. And, and I think that, you know, business people, that's where they're going to emerge. Because if you look at that first generation of star, Kim Kardashian, the Kanye West of the world, that's arcing. You know, then people went to like the Mr. Beasts and that's still building. So you have the business celebrity building, you have sort of next generation celebrity building. And I think that's what's going on.

• 31:37David Friedberg?

  Let me just ask you guys one question because, you know, I think the, the intention with, with journalists was kind of to be arbiters of the truth or discover as a fact and to, to deliver that fact to their audience. And when you have this direct relationship between the source and the audience, as you do through social media and Twitter and whatnot, there, there isn't an arbiter, there isn't a third party. And everything that then is said by the source is taken at face value. How does that play out in a world where, you know, Trump may say things like, hey, there's election fraud? When the facts don't line up and now you have this ability to not have an arbiter? And these people, anyone that now has a direct relationship with a large audience can say anything they want

• 32:21David Friedberg?

  and kind of drive large change without those things necessarily being rooted in some, you know, relative kind of objective sense. So.

• 32:29Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Sacks.

• 32:31David Sacks?

  Well, I mean, I think it's a marketplace of ideas and everybody's competing. And the the answer to bad speech or bad ideas is more speech and better ideas.

• 32:39Jason Calacanis?

  Yep.

• 32:41David Sacks?

  I mean, that's the reality is it is very frustrating to see, you know, people propagating things that aren't true. However, none of us has a monopoly on the truth. We can't say for sure what it is. And so we arrive at the truth through sort of a free marketplace of ideas. There is no better solution than that. You know, there is no magical way to entrust a small elite of people with, you know, the right to censor and tell us what the truth is without essentially, you know, creating a worse situation. And, um, you know, that that's the fundamental problem. So, yeah, look, we're we're gonna, we're going to this era in which there there is no, um, you know, if you go back like 50 years ago, you had Walter Cronkite saying, and that's the way it is. And everyone believed him.

• 33:26David Sacks?

  And then the New York Times was the paper of record and people believe that.

• 33:30Jason Calacanis?

  All the news that's fit to print.

• 33:31David Sacks?

  Right, exactly. And so, but that's been steadily eroding for decades. And now the internet is the final erosion of that. And, um, and look, I think it's not an all, it's not a bad thing. Because in order for journalism to work, you need all the journalists to buy into a certain code of journalistic behavior and ethics, which is all about objectivity. And the press doesn't buy into that anymore. They don't believe in objectivity anymore.

• 33:58Jason Calacanis?

  No.

• 33:58David Sacks?

  And.

• 33:59Jason Calacanis?

  Especially, I'll tell you something, Sax, young writers, I found, when we were trying to hire young writers for Inside as an example, they all wanted to write anti-Trump, you know, pro-woke, whatever. They had some ax to grind. And I said, you know, you should really write for an opinion page, but you haven't done any journalism yet. So you should probably do journalism for 10 years. And then the second decade, you earn the right to be on the opinion page. Let's put in some reps, do 10 years of this. And, you know, it just never, uh, actually. Wait, do you guys hear something?

• 34:31David Friedberg?

  Have you guys seen that movie from from Duff Till Dawn? And there's that moment where the movie just suddenly the scene changes and everything's different?

• 34:38Jason Calacanis?

  What's that? Is somebody at the?

• 34:40Speaker 03

  What's going on?

• 34:41Jason Calacanis?

  That's the bestie line.

• 34:42Speaker 03

  Wait, what?

• 34:44Jason Calacanis?

  Somebody's calling the bestie phone. Did you give the bestie phone number to somebody, Chamath?

• 34:48Speaker 03

  Oh, my God, is somebody, wait.

• 34:50Jason Calacanis?

  What's going on? Who's there?

• 34:52Speaker 03

  You up? You up? You up?

• 34:54Jason Calacanis?

  What's going on? Alan, okay, let's see. Is anybody there? Hello? Whoa.

• 35:06Jason Calacanis?

  Draymond Green in the house. What's up, bestie guestie?

• 35:10Speaker 03

  Bestie guestie.

• 35:10Speaker 05

  What's going on, besties?

• 35:12Speaker 03

  What's up, bestie?

• 35:14Jason Calacanis?

  Where are you? Are you in a, are you in a coronavirus COVID quarantine somewhere in an NBA bubble? Where are you?

• 35:22Speaker 05

  I am. I'm in, I'm in Dallas, stuck in the hotel with bad water pressure.

• 35:27Jason Calacanis?

  The worst. That honestly, that is the thing. If you had to give me the most luxurious hotel in the world, but with a tap, a faucet for water pressure, no thanks. I would rather sleep, I would rather sleep in a box with a great, with a great shower.

• 35:42Speaker 05

  The water pressure is everything.

• 35:44Jason Calacanis?

  Everything. All right. On the call, obviously drafted by the Golden State Warriors in the second round, 35th overall in the 2020 NBA draft, three-time NBA champion, 2016-17 Defensive Player of the Year, two-time NBA All-Star, five-time All-Defense, and drafted behind Michael Kidd, Gilchrist, Deion Waters, Harrison Barnes, Tyler Zeller, Miles Plumby. And I don't know how many people got drafted ahead of you, Draymond, but I know that you can repeat them in order. Is there anybody who's drafted ahead of you who has achieved even a fraction of what you've achieved in the NBA, Draymond?

• 36:20Speaker 05

  There's 34 guys drafted ahead of me and I definitely can still name all of them. And saying that, I think there are a few, Anthony Davis.

• 36:30Jason Calacanis?

  He's done okay. He got one ring.

• 36:33Speaker 05

  Damian Lillard.

• 36:35Jason Calacanis?

  No rings?

• 36:37Speaker 05

  But a stud though.

• 36:38Jason Calacanis?

  Stud, very good player, but no rings. I'm just saying.

• 36:41Speaker 05

  And Bradley Beal.

• 36:43Speaker 03

  Brad Beal.

• 36:44Jason Calacanis?

  Okay. Also no rings.

• 36:45Speaker 05

  Stud. Yeah. So I got all the guys in the rings category, but then I don't have Patrick McCall in the rings category. Patrick McCall has the same amount of rings as me. So.

• 36:54Jason Calacanis?

  Who?

• 36:54Speaker 05

  You know.

• 36:59Speaker 05

  Respect to those guys I know, although they know how to range, I got major respect for those guys.

• 37:05Jason Calacanis?

  We were thinking about what to talk to you about, uh, coming on the pod. And we have a series of questions just about being an NBA player and what you've learned and how good you've become. I just, I'll start it off with one question, which is it seems like every year you get a little better at something. How do you do that? Do you like say over the summer, I'm just going to be better at my screens. I'm going to be better at X, Y, or Z, or do you just try to get incrementally better all year long?

• 37:33Speaker 05

  I mean, you always want to try to get better all year long, but the reality is with this season, with the way, not just this season in particular, an NBA season in general, you don't have much time to get better. So you're kind of just getting better on the fly. And when, when you're in your workouts during the season, you're just trying to maintain because there's such little prep time. But during the off season, you really lock in on a couple of things and try to get better at those things. And, you know, I think I've become a much better ball handler. I think I see the floor much better. I think I've gotten better overall as a player. Um, the one area that I've wanted to see more growth in is my shooting. And, you know, when I'm shooting the basketball on my own, I know for sure I've gotten better at shooting.

• 38:17Speaker 05

  Um, like, you know, you come in the gym with me, I shoot the lights out every time. But it's, it's about getting over that mental block in the game, you know? I think that's the thing people don't realize is, you know, I shot the lights out for years in a row. And, you know, I had a year where I think I shot 39% from three. But then you go through the struggle and once you lose it mentally, it's hard to get it back. And so I'm fighting that challenge now, although I know I can make the shot. It's when you get in the game mentally, got to get over that hurdle.

• 38:49Jason Calacanis?

  What, what do you do? You do like meditation or do you have like a coach who does like positive visualizations or something like that? Or is it just? reps and working through a shooting slump.

• 38:59Speaker 05

  I've definitely incorporated some meditation on the calm app.

• 39:03Jason Calacanis?

  Thank you.

• 39:04Speaker 03

  Oh, Jesus Christ.

• 39:07David Friedberg?

  Did you give him options?

• 39:08Speaker 03

  You moron.

• 39:10David Friedberg?

  You have to disclose.

• 39:10Speaker 03

  That shit on the all in podcast, you have to disclose if you have options.

• 39:14Jason Calacanis?

  I'm shipping the shares right now.

• 39:15Speaker 03

  What your peak and come.

• 39:17Jason Calacanis?

  You don't have any shares yet. No shares yet.

• 39:21David Friedberg?

  Hey, Draymond, are are are other players in the NBA struggling right now? I mean, with like COVID over the last year and the shutdown and the fits and starts and everything. I mean, is it kind of tough to get in the game mentally for folks? And is it?

• 39:31Speaker 05

  It's brutal.

• 39:32David Friedberg?

  Yeah.

• 39:32Speaker 05

  It's brutal. Um, I, you know, you talk to guys around the league. Um, there was even some guys, and I won't throw anybody under the bus, but and I'm talking about one superstar in particular, who I've never seen him out of shape. And he's so out of shape right now, everybody.

• 39:51David Friedberg?

  No comment, no comment.

• 39:53Speaker 05

  Yeah. It's not Luke or James are, but I've never seen this guy to shape. Um, and he's out of shape right now. And I asked him when he was finally, he was like, man, the bubble, like, oh, it's just been hard. And I completely understand that.

• 40:08Speaker 03

  I know what.

• 40:10Speaker 05

  It's it's brutal. And this season currently, you know, I don't want to sound like, um, just this overprivileged guy who's complaining about, uh, being able to make a living because there's so many people who's lost their jobs. And I don't take, you know, being able to go to work for granted at all. But this season has been extremely tough, you know, whereas an NBA day normally is like maybe four to six hours, like every day right now is like 10 to 12 hours.

• 40:40Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 40:40Speaker 05

  And, you know, it's COVID testing. For 11 a.m. practice, we have to be at the facility at 8:45 a.m.

• 40:48Speaker 03

  Oh, wow.

• 40:49Speaker 05

  And and then you have to be back at the facility to test no later than five, in between four and five p.m. And so you you kind of have these long, drawn out days and about maybe two hours of that is actual work time, you know, and then you're just trying to do some recovery things to kill time. You can't leave a hotel, you know, for myself. One thing that I have always found in NBA season is it's a ton of pressure, obviously, and it's very, very. demanding like you can't really do much else as you guys know it well I'm always trying to coordinate with y'all about playing poker around the schedule you can't really do anything

• 41:29Speaker 05

  else but one place that I found is normally I'll take like a day trip to Aspen you know or do different things like that a day trip to LA to kind of clear your mind and get a release you don't have those releases now you can't take a day trip you can't get away even on off days you have to go to the facility and test and so even just seeing that facility that day although you may not even go in to work out but you drive into that facility every day mentally it's exhausting and so it's been a very tough season to say the least and I think a lot of guys are struggling with it and saying that you know we all want to continue to

• 42:07David Friedberg?

  it must be better to be must be better to be playing versus being stuck at home with with the league shut down right I mean it's gotta be better for sure yeah

• 42:16Speaker 05

  I mean it's better for all of us obviously uh you know from an economical standpoint we all want to continue to make money uh you know and and provide for our families we all want to continue to take this league to new heights so it's always better uh for us to be on the cord than off and but that comes with certain challenges and you just got to deal with those challenges and try to continue to press forward

• 42:37Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Dada before you came on we were talking about the media and we're talking about how all these industries used to rely on the media to tell their story and now all these industries are finding ways to go around them and it's even happening in venture capital right um in the business of sports I found this thing that that I thought was really interesting um Ronaldo signed a one billion dollar lifetime contract right I think this is like two or three years insane but then it turned out that in one year he generated four hundred and seventy four million dollars of value for Nike just through social media because of the number of followers

• 43:20Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Which I think is just absolutely nuts. Um, what do you think about the media? What do you think about your ability to tell your version of the facts through the media?

• 43:30Speaker 05

  I think, um, we've definitely grown in that area. As you said, in, you know, in all, uh, businesses, whether it's basketball, whether it's venture, you know, just all over the board. Everyone has grown in that area and kind of start taking the bull by the horns and try to tell their own narrative. Um, you know, if you want me to be quite frank with you, I hate the media and I'd be

• 43:52Chamath Palihapitiya?

  So does sex.

• 43:55Speaker 05

  And saying that, I could possibly be a part of that group one day, you know, but I hate the media. And the reason I hate the media is I don't hate particular people, you know? I have relationships with a ton of people in media, great people. I hate what media entails in today's day and age. You know, it's all about, um, who can stir up the most commotion? What happened with this guy? Uh, what happened with that guy? Um, it's less about, man, this guy is struggling on the floor and more about James Harden was in the club. You know, so how much controversy can we stir up about James Harden being in the club? As opposed to if we really wanted to talk bad about James Harden, when he was on the Houston Rockets,

• 44:40Speaker 05

  he was bumming it. Now, we all know James Harden isn't a bum player, but he was completely dogging it with the Houston Rockets. He's completely turned it up and turned back into James Harden as he's gotten to the Nets. But you can easily, if you want to nitpick at James Harden, talk about James Harden not playing well. But in turn, we're going to talk about James Harden being in the club that night and he was at little baby's birthday party. And although, you know, I, I disagree with some of the things he was doing, why is that all that?

• 45:08David Friedberg?

  Right. It's all about, it's all about clicks and, and, and selling ad dollars against that. We were just talking about that before you got on.

• 45:15Chamath Palihapitiya?

  No, look at, look at what happened to Kyrie. In, in the span of literally a week, Kyrie had both sides of the same coin. One was he violates the shelter in place or whatever, and was like at a birthday party with his family. And then he gets suspended. And on the other side, Kyrie had bought a house for George Floyd's family.

• 45:32Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 45:32Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And so it's like, both are true, but you have to go through these two news cycles where first he's just a piece of shit. And then he's this amazing philanthropist. What's the point? Yeah.

• 45:42Speaker 05

  I I I agree. I don't I don't get the point. Like and like like Free Bird just said, it's it's all about clicks.

• 45:51David Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 45:52Speaker 05

  And I think that's short-lived. You know, at at some point, everyone's gonna get tired of your clickbait. And so, yes, it may drive you revenue right now. It may, um, you know, bring more subscribers right now. But in the long term, people are gonna get sick of that. At the end of the day, authenticity always wins out. When you create great products, when you give everything great to whatever business that you're giving, that's always gonna outlive the bullshit. And so you got and and that's why you're starting to see so many so much turnover with media people and leaving this job and going to this place and leaving another place because people get sick of that shit.

• 46:32Speaker 05

  And so I feel like all of these guys are driving themselves out. You're constantly you're killing your relationships with players. You're killing your and and when I say players, I'm not just talking about NBA players. You guys are the players in the venture space. We're the players in the in the basketball space. You're killing your relationships with the players. So eventually, you're just gonna be stuck there tweeting out bullshit, making bullshit articles that no one will co-sign to and then no one wants to fucking hear you anymore. I don't get it.

• 47:02Speaker 03

  Oh, boy. Looks like we got our bestie in rotation now.

• 47:05David Sacks?

  Yeah.

• 47:05Speaker 03

  That's gonna get clipped. That's a little rant, a little Draymond rant.

• 47:10David Sacks?

  Oh, man. Your first bestie, rant, Draymond. We we've all we've all had our moments. We've all had our rant.

• 47:17Speaker 03

  Draymond, have you watched or listened to any of this podcast before?

• 47:19Speaker 05

  Of course. Are you fucking kidding me?

• 47:21Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 47:24David Sacks?

  I I have a I have a question, actually. So so I yeah, and I'm not sure if the viewers know because from Jason's introduction that we actually play poker with you. Right. You're right. That's how I got to know you. And, you know, obviously, it's been a real thrill and uh because you're a great guy and it's also really interesting to get a window into your world. But I'm curious, like, what do you get out of hanging out with us or, you know, these? Bunch of nerds. These losers and pariahs. Yeah. So I'm, you know, and and then, you know, maybe use that as a segue to also talk about what you're doing in business these days because I think that's interesting.

• 47:59Speaker 05

  What I get from hanging out with you guys is number one incredible friends. Um, you know, I think that's what's been the most important thing for me is just building friendships that will go far beyond any of you guys doing any deals or to go far beyond um, me doing any deals or me playing basketball and that's the thing that I cherish the most. Um, you know, obviously it started with Best DC bringing me into the poker game and introducing me to everyone. And then all of you guys welcoming me with open arms. And you know, I always say in the groups, in our group chats, uh, anytime that there's a debate going on, I make sure to throw my disclaimer out there. Hey, I can't talk anything with you guys. I know everyone can talk circles around me.

• 48:44Speaker 05

  But this is how I feel on said topic.

• 48:49David Friedberg?

  Tell, tell us about the, tell us about the temperature in America.

• 48:54Speaker 05

  The temperature in America, uh, is fucked up. And, and I think, you know, where we are today as a country, um, it's no different than where we were 30 years ago, 40 years ago. We just live in a day and age of social media where we can see everything. And so the same battle cry that Dr. King was crying, uh, 50 years ago, it's still currently going on today. It's the same exact thing, uh, or 60 years ago. It's the same exact things that's, that's taking place today. And our country is one, in, in one of the most fucked up spaces it's ever been in. And in saying that, it's in just about the same place that it's always been in.

• 49:38Speaker 05

  And so, you know, we've supercoated shit for so long that it seems now like, oh, police killings are an all time high of shooting unarmed people. Um, you know, racism is at an all time high. It's not an all time high. It's the same that it's been. It's just on the, it's, it's being pushed to the forefront now as opposed to it being on the back burner before. And so, um, that's, that's just kind of where we are as a country. Um, you know,

• 50:10David Friedberg?

  You think things are, you think things are gonna, you think sentiment's gonna shift, Draymond? I mean, you know, the protests that happened in this country over the last year obviously happened during covid and um and I think it magnified them a lot more than, you know, similar protests that have taken place historically. But, you know, are we seeing like sentiment shift in the United States in terms of policy and people's behaviors and attitudes right now?

• 50:34Speaker 05

  Uh, I think some people behave, but I don't think anything is gonna shift. Um, and partly because we live in a fake ass world where no one can say anything. You say anything, you get cashed for it. You're, I, I think, um, you know, in, in telling your truth, which in order to create the change that we need in America, people have to be able to speak the truth. And if you can't speak the truth without getting fucking destroyed and a part of the bullshit cancel culture that we all have to deal with, then how can you ever create change through a lie? Lies are, is what we've been facing for hundreds of years, but yet when

• 51:18Speaker 05

  you get in front of a microphone, you have to be very conscious of what you say because it may piss this group of people off, or it may piss that group of people off. And then you're never allowed to tell the fucking truth. So how will we ever move forward as a country if no one can tell the truth and you only get canceled? So you cancel who tells the truth and we fucking push floors all the lives, we'll never move anywhere as a country. So I don't think we're going anywhere.

• 51:44Jason Calacanis?

  Seems like in the NBA, we went from the player saying, listen, I don't want to touch that. Michael Jordan was very clear in the last dance, like, you know, I'm, I'm a, I'm an athlete. I don't want to talk about politics. I don't want to lose half the audience. And then you had, you know, Mello, um, and, uh, you know, LeBron and a bunch of folks, see, uh, Chris Paul, I guess, was in that group too. Dwyane Wade, when they came out and said, hey, listen, we gotta talk about this and we gotta talk about race in America. And then that culminated with the Black Lives Matter, um, branding of everything in the bubble and that kind of historic moment. What's the, what's, what was the vibe inside of the NBA when the player said, listen,

• 52:26Jason Calacanis?

  this is important to us. If we're going to get back on the court, we need to make this front and center. This is our priority. And then let's face it, you got a lot of owners in the league, maybe who are old white guys, maybe they don't want to bring this kind of heat. They don't want this kind of debate. They want to just play ball, shut up and dribble, all this nonsense. What was that moment like when you guys said, no, this is what we have to do if we're going to get back on the court?

• 52:50Speaker 05

  I think, I think guys have just had enough and more, most importantly, I think now more than ever, guys truly understand the power of the athlete, you know, and the

• 53:02Jason Calacanis?

  Exactly. Closing the loop on what we just said. You, we control the narrative. You control the narrative.

• 53:08Speaker 05

  Absolutely. And, and so we're, we're just kind of in a space where we understand this ship don't sail without us. And the things that matter to us has to matter to the league now.

• 53:21Jason Calacanis?

  Right.

• 53:22Speaker 05

  And saying that, I think, uh, we have a commissioner that supports everything we stand for. And when you have a commissioner like Adam Silver, who is in full support of everything that the players stand for, is never trying to fight us, is never trying to put a muzzle on us and tell us not to stand up for what we believe in, that, that's a very powerful thing. And that's why the NBA is the most powerful sports league in the world, because we have a commissioner who's on board and who not only supports what the players think and what we believe in, but he takes it even a step further, you know, and, and you don't see that. You, you see the NFL tell guys, you have to stand,

• 54:04Speaker 05

  you know, or, or stay in the locker room. Adam Silver don't do us, don't do that to us. And that's why there's always friction between their commissioner and their players.

• 54:13Jason Calacanis?

  David, what did you think about the storm, the capital when you were watching that?

• 54:18Speaker 05

  What was going through your mind? We, we see the two different sides of America. The first thing that went through my mind was, I wonder if that was a Black Lives Matter protest, uh, or, or Black Lives Matter protests were stormed into the Capitol. How much of a bloodbath it would have been. It would have been one of the biggest bloodbaths in, in American history, you know, and, uh, and, and so immediately when I saw it, the first thing I thought of was like, wow, how, how is this even happening? Like, and let alone it, it not happening? No one, and, and by the way, I don't wish death on anyone, but I know

• 55:00Speaker 05

  that if those were melanated people were storming into the Capitol building, it would have been bloodshed everywhere. It would have unloaded. Facts. Absolutely. And so it just kinda, um, really, once again, just revealed how there's two sides of America. And as I said before, until we tell the truth about it, we'll still, we'll continue to live in a day and age where there'll be two sides of America.

• 55:26David Friedberg?

  Draymond, when, when COVID first started and we went into lockdown and we were all texting with each other, talking about like how crazy the world had become, one of the things that stuck with me and still sticks with me is the comments you made over our text chain about how it feels like you felt growing up. Can you just explain what you meant by that? And like, just share that with our audience that's listening? Because it was such a striking comment. We were all like, oh my gosh, like I can't go outside. I can't like go to the store. Like this, this world is crazy. And you were like, this is what it was like. And it was just such a striking, maybe you can just share a little bit about what you meant by that. Cause I think it paints a little bit of a picture, uh, you know, for folks to understand a little bit about, you know, kind of, you know, what America can be like and what it's like growing up in, in, in, in parts of the US.

• 56:11Speaker 05

  Well, number one, I, I want to point out that I told all of y'all, the first day we went into lockdown, we also go to cowboy. No one listened to me. It was a good call. It was a good call. You were right.

• 56:23David Friedberg?

  We should all go where the cow, oh yeah.

• 56:25Speaker 05

  No, but, um, when, when I said that in the group chat, uh, what I said, what I said in the group chat was honestly,

• 56:34Speaker 05

  I was in my condo in San Francisco. I live in a high rise, great view of the Bay Bridge, great view of the water. You see all of San Francisco, South San Francisco, everywhere. And, and I said to the group chat, after a few weeks of lockdown, I said, this, you know, guys, I have to be quite frank with you, this feels no different than me growing up in Saginaw, Michigan. And what I mean by that, I said, this feels no different than me growing up in Saginaw, Michigan. The only difference is I know where my next, I know where my next mill is coming from. You know, and I'm, and I'm in a much better place, living space than I was, but this feels no different. When I'm locked in, I can't go anywhere. That was me growing up in Saginaw, Michigan,

• 57:18Speaker 05

  locked in, couldn't go anywhere, didn't know that there was a world that existed outside of Saginaw, Michigan, and basketball was able to take me to different places. But I, I didn't know anything existed and nothing seemed accessible to a young black kid growing up in Saginaw, Michigan. So, once I was, once I was then locked in the house along with everyone else in the world, it just took me back to a space of, wow, nothing else is accessible to me. This was exactly what it was when I was growing up as a ten-year-old, like, nothing was accessible to us. We didn't have anything. That's how, and so, when we went into lockdown, like, I felt right at home. I felt

• 58:00Speaker 05

  like the kid growing up in Saginaw again. Nothing was accessible to me.

• 58:05David Friedberg?

  But it's such a poignant point, Draymond, because so many people don't, you know, people don't have that experience, but hearing you say that, it provides perspective that there are people living that today. And it's not just about a COVID lockdown, but it's about a different world that we don't get to see. So, I really appreciated you sharing that. I, it honestly was very poignant and kind of struck a nerve with me when you said it.

• 58:28Speaker 05

  Absolutely. I think, you know, one, one thing, another thing I said in the chat, and I am included. We, we all got, got a chance to see what it felt like to be those people. You know, obviously, I lived that life growing up, but once you're removed from it, you're removed from it, right? Like I, you know, you try not to never forget, but let's, let's be frank, you know, Shama, Shama, you, you grew up with nothing. Uh, coming from India and or Sri Lanka and going to Canada, you had nothing, you understand. And, you know, we all understand from a different perspective, but there are still people currently that live that, live that life today.

• 59:06Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Can I tell you?

• 59:06Speaker 05

  All of us a glimpse of what those people go through on a daily basis.

• 59:11Chamath Palihapitiya?

  The one, the one thing about this pandemic is that I've had these moments today where like I actually now am a little bit more connected to my past. I did this, um, I did this podcast with this guy, Patrick O'Shaughnessy, and he ends every podcast and he says, you know, uh, what is the kindest thing that some, somebody has done to you? And I had pushed this memory down into the fucking recesses of my mind. Except in this last year, I've remembered all these kindnesses. Because I've, I've now, I've, I've, these are the moments where I felt the most insecure and I, and I told the story about this kid. Who, you know, when I was like 11 or 12, he was eight, so he was in my sister's class.

• 59:52Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And their family gave us a mattress, two mattresses and some clothes, you know, some plates and like a frying pan and a pot. Literally, when we got refugee status. And when I said it on the thing, I started bawling and then I kind of collected myself. I'm getting a little verklempt even hearing you talk about it, man. Well, and the next, the next morning, uh, Nat said, how did it go? And I told her and I exploded and I was crying and crying and crying and crying. And to your point, like it is so easy to forget where you come from, but it's also easy to forget that there's a simple fucking externality. In this case, it's a, it's a virus you can't see

• 1:00:36Chamath Palihapitiya?

  that gets trans and it makes us all the same in one fell soup in one nanosecond. And if that doesn't make you sort of like empathetic to everybody, not, nothing will, but that's one silver lining in this whole fucking debacle is it's an opportunity for, for, for a lot of folks to reconnect with their own self, you know, and be a better person.

• 1:00:58Jason Calacanis?

  This is something you, you paused on Draymond during the pandemic when you weren't playing and you guys obviously with the injuries and everything didn't, you weren't in the bubble. So you had a lot of time to be with yourself. Did you have any like during this great pause, you know, I don't know, revelations about yourself, your career and what you want to do in the second half of your career? Because let's be honest, I mean, the run the Warriors has had has been transcendent. I mean, you guys have checked off every box. You personally have checked off every box, especially for a guy who was drafted in the second round to be a champion. And like the way you've developed and the leadership, I mean, everybody in the league knows when you were on the court, that's the team and you have that leadership, the ability to

• 1:01:42Jason Calacanis?

  see the floor and direct the offense, direct the defense. Did you come up with anything? We said, this is what I want out of the future of my life. Cause we saw you dabble with, you know, TNT and the desk and you killed it. We, we've seen you mic'd up. We see you coaching now. It seems like there's a 2.0 Draymond, like maybe a little evolution here of your thinking about maybe the third act and the second half of your NBA career on the court.

• 1:02:06Speaker 05

  You know, I had a lot of time to really sit and reflect. Uh, you know, I grew a lot in my personal relationships, which I think was important. Um, you know, and I think I also grew, grew a lot as, as a business professional as well. Um, and speaking of, uh, you know, the TNT stuff, uh, that was, I think, you know, we've kind of always, I've kind of always heard, like, man, when you, when you finish playing, you'll have a great career in TV. But the reality is, is, you know, we, we've seen some players, uh, you know, that were really good players get up there and not.

• 1:02:45Speaker 05

  Be very, you know, be very good sitting at the desk or, or, you know, um, color commentating the game. And, and so it's not as easy as most people think it is. People think just because you play basketball, A, that you know basketball, and then B, that you're gonna help, you, you're gonna be able to translate or, or help give everyone else an understanding of what exactly it is that you see. And, and so getting up there and actually being able to do it and then the reception that I got, which was people, you know, in, in my mind, I've always said,

• 1:03:28Speaker 05

  I wanna be Tony Romo of the NBA. Tony Romo is one of my favorite people to watch do color commentary because he makes it very simple for you to understand. He tell you, Tony Romo sit there and call the plays out that a team is about to run just by seeing the formation and they do exactly what he said they're about to do. It's the most incredible thing. And, and speaking of which we were talking about earlier, which was the media. One of the things that pissed me off most about the game of basketball today is I can't turn on a sports talk show and actually learn about basketball. And that fucking pisses me off. All I could turn on a talk show about is they're about bullshit.

• 1:04:10Speaker 05

  But the reality is, we got, we got so many people talking and, and speaking about the game of basketball that don't know shit.

• 1:04:21Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Right.

• 1:04:21Speaker 05

  And so you, you can't turn on the TV and learn. And so the one thing I'll say, I wanna bring to that world is I want to be able to teach the game of basketball and then for people to then contact me once I was sitting up there at the desk, uh, in inside, on Inside the NBA and doing all of these different things to contact me and say, the way you break the game down makes it so easy to understand. That was a huge win for me and it gave me a lot of hope to wanna succeed more in that area.

• 1:04:50Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Well, I, I'll, I'll say something different, um, which is what, what I see is like just in, just an incredibly. Beautiful human being because like you're able to humanize that, but then you can go and speak on these other things. That's actually what we need more of because all of a sudden now it's very hard to put people in a box and it shows that we are all multifaceted. It's just that sometimes we don't get the exposure. Meaning like I would say, I have different facets of my personality because we've been friends for so long and that's a gift you gave to me. You just said being in that group chat with us, which can be a cacophonous fucking mess sometimes. That group chat should, that group chat can never

• 1:05:33David Friedberg?

  Never, never, never to be published, never to be published.

• 1:05:37Chamath Palihapitiya?

  But, but the point is like, and this is goes back to this first thing. Like we can now really like be authentic and show all these different facets of ourself. And it's just like, to me, that's what's really important. Because then people see that there is more than, you know, like, like the, the, the most, the best rebuttal to like that whole shut up and dribble, which was so fucking offensive is literally for you to be great at basketball, great at broadcasting, great as a, you know, social, you know, person who can comment on the social times of our moment. Great businessman. And then I'm just going to put one thing out there right now. Eventually, great fucking politician. Because this is like now you want to talk about somebody, no, but you want to talk about somebody who can galvanize interest and

• 1:06:19David Friedberg?

  There's an open governor, uh, um, Draymond and someone, someone on our podcast no longer running apparently.

• 1:06:26Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Guys, guys, I'm, I'm going to make a prediction that our bestie will be the governor of Michigan or the governor of California.

• 1:06:34David Friedberg?

  Love it.

• 1:06:35Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Before, before the time he's 50.

• 1:06:36David Friedberg?

  Love it.

• 1:06:37Jason Calacanis?

  There you go.

• 1:06:38Speaker 05

  Thank you. I appreciate that. Maybe, uh, I mean, I, you know, I love the state of Michigan as whole, uh, you know, and but I, I think California will be home for me for the rest of my life. So, possibly California.

• 1:06:50Jason Calacanis?

  Great call, Newsom. Hey Draymond, let me ask you a question. Uh, you're, you're on Twitter. I understand you have a Twitter handle. Sometimes you check it out. Did you see Chamath's

• 1:07:00David Friedberg?

  Shirtless.

• 1:07:01Jason Calacanis?

  Picture with his shirt off?

• 1:07:03Chamath Palihapitiya?

  And Dana, did you see the thirst trap? Did you see it? Tell the truth.

• 1:07:07David Friedberg?

  Tell the truth.

• 1:07:08Speaker 05

  I mean.

• 1:07:09Speaker 03

  He looked away.

• 1:07:10Speaker 05

  If we all know Chamath, I'm sorry, probably sent it to the fucking group chat.

• 1:07:14Speaker 03

  Oh, you must.

• 1:07:16Speaker 05

  He's snapping out takes. Wanted all of us to say, thanks Chamath, you look fucking great.

• 1:07:23Speaker 05

  I definitely saw the picture.

• 1:07:26David Sacks?

  Actually, I, I, I, I'm the one who posted it to the, to the group chat.

• 1:07:30Speaker 03

  No, that's, that's posted it.

• 1:07:31David Sacks?

  And I, my comment, my comment, my comment was Chamath Kardashian? Question mark.

• 1:07:41David Sacks?

  Cause you put, you put the camera in front of your face. You were like, you, you, it looked like this. It was like, you did this thing like.

• 1:07:48Speaker 03

  Day Day taught me how to do this. He's the. Oh, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

• 1:07:55Jason Calacanis?

  That's a no fly.

• 1:07:55Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Guys, listen, we are, we are, we're nearing the end of our podcast. Jason, uh, do you want to tell Day Day what we're gonna do?

• 1:08:02Jason Calacanis?

  Okay, so, uh, some people have given some reviews or just feedback on the pod, on the besties, maybe even you, Draymond. And so we thought it would be incredibly uncomfortable, uh, and funny for us to read some of these. So, uh, Sax, why don't you kick us off with one?

• 1:08:21David Sacks?

  That, well, there's a really good pie chart here, which, um, Nick, Nick and show, which shows all in pod talk time. And it's basically mostly Chamath and then Jason with, with both Davids filling like a tiny little piece. And then

• 1:08:37Jason Calacanis?

  So it's one third.

• 1:08:38David Sacks?

  The majority of it is Chamath and Jason talking over each other as a half the pod. Bored Elon Musk posted that, I guess.

• 1:08:45Jason Calacanis?

  Yeah. Um, here's one from Brooklyn gal 212 on Sax. One star review. Sax, go ahead and read this one star review from Brooklyn gal 212.

• 1:08:54David Sacks?

  Yeah. She says that David Sax ruins every conversation on this pod.

• 1:08:58Chamath Palihapitiya?

  You forgot the period.

• 1:09:00Jason Calacanis?

  All right, here's one about Chamath.

• 1:09:03David Friedberg?

  Yeah, Chamath, read this one.

• 1:09:05Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Okay, it's from Howard Axel Roark. With a pill. With a with a pill. It says, every time Chamath does something to make me like him, he does two things to make me hate his guts.

• 1:09:21Jason Calacanis?

  I think we can all relate to that one.

• 1:09:24Speaker 05

  It sounds like me in my playing career.

• 1:09:27Speaker 05

  Everyone fucking hates me, man. It's crazy.

• 1:09:32David Friedberg?

  Draymond, I will tell you, when I first, when I first thought about putting a tweet out for like the first time, you were the one who said, man, everyone's gonna talk shit, but forget the haters. Like, that's just the way it goes when you start.

• 1:09:41Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, fuck them.

• 1:09:42David Friedberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:43Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Fuck the haters.

• 1:09:44Jason Calacanis?

  All right, here's one for, this is a, a superfan Aaron sent this one into the email. Jason, at this point, I fully believe you have bought, laminated, and framed Kathy Griffin's severed trumpet picture. How many gallons of semen spilled on Twitter when Biden was inaugurated? Oh, my lord.

• 1:10:01David Friedberg?

  Oh, too much.

• 1:10:01Jason Calacanis?

  If Twitter offered two blue chuck marks, you'd have three. Your zealotry has made even Bill Maher blush and the other besties cringe when you can't take even a slight ribbing. It's so bad now. The besties have started their own side chat without you. At your funeral, the besties will show up not out of respect for you, but for your family.

• 1:10:20David Friedberg?

  Oh, my god.

• 1:10:21Jason Calacanis?

  My lord.

• 1:10:24Jason Calacanis?

  Signed, Jackal and Sax.

• 1:10:25David Friedberg?

  No commentary, dude.

• 1:10:29Jason Calacanis?

  Oh, my lord. Okay, David, here's yours. Yours is up, David.

• 1:10:32Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Wait, wait, I need to do this hot take. Hot take. Ready? The hot take.

• 1:10:36Jason Calacanis?

  Hot takes.

• 1:10:37Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Not deeply researched.

• 1:10:38Jason Calacanis?

  Three stars.

• 1:10:39Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Jason and Chamath make good points, but the other two are such whiny nerds. One of whom is clearly right wing wannabe vanilla ISIS.

• 1:10:52Jason Calacanis?

  Oh, my lord. Did he just call you a terrorist?

• 1:10:58David Sacks?

  I think, uh, I think he's referring to Friedberg.

• 1:11:02David Friedberg?

  Which David?

• 1:11:03David Sacks?

  Definitely not me. Definitely not me.

• 1:11:05Jason Calacanis?

  They both have the same.

• 1:11:06David Friedberg?

  Oh, here's a Jason. You want to read the next one? This is incredible. Evil Jason.

• 1:11:09Jason Calacanis?

  Evil Jason. Okay, here we go. This is from Adam Keem. He posted this on January 30th, so not long ago. He gives me a full one star, which I think one star is like number one, right? Five stars is fifth place. First star is one place. Jason Calacanis is a monster.

• 1:11:24David Sacks?

  Monster, not monster.

• 1:11:25Jason Calacanis?

  Monster, monster. Wow. After listening to Jason on the latest podcast, I am floored. Period. His personal attacks and his complete support of the manipulators in our market should tell you something. This guy is evil.

• 1:11:39David Friedberg?

  Let's move on.

• 1:11:40Jason Calacanis?

  Thanks, Mom.

• 1:11:40David Friedberg?

  David is trash. That is all. Which David?

• 1:11:44David Sacks?

  Friedberg. Always Friedberg.

• 1:11:45David Friedberg?

  Always Friedberg. Oh, no, here's, here's one I'll read. If Metromile and/or becoming new head of USA Vaccination doesn't work out for David Friedberg, he could still have an amazing career as a Kermit the Frog voice actor.

• 1:12:01Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Here's, uh, here's Marcus Aurelius A13367156 saying to me, "Snot sniffing your own farts." What the fuck does that?

• 1:12:14Jason Calacanis?

  It means that you are so enamored with yourself, Chama, that you think your farts are fragrant.

• 1:12:20David Friedberg?

  Oh, my God. Okay, I'm gonna read, I'm gonna read a Draymond Green mean tweet.

• 1:12:24Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 1:12:25Jason Calacanis?

  Oh, no.

• 1:12:26Speaker 05

  Draymond Green shoot like he's sitting down in a chair. Fuck off.

• 1:12:34David Friedberg?

  Oh, my God, read the next one. Read the next one.

• 1:12:37Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Or screens.

• 1:12:39Speaker 05

  This is from Sugar Lplum.

• 1:12:44Jason Calacanis?

  Sugar Lplum?

• 1:12:45Speaker 05

  Sugar Lplum. Draymond Green is so attractive to, to me. I don't know why, because he's legally ugly.

• 1:12:55Jason Calacanis?

  Wait a second, did she nag you? I think she's trying to add it to the DMs and nagging you at the same time.

• 1:13:00David Friedberg?

  You know, the brutal, by the way, the brutal thing about that, the way the brutal thing about that.

• 1:13:04Chamath Palihapitiya?

  The brutal thing about that is is Nat Nat once sent to me, she's like, man, Draymond Green is really attractive. I said, what the fuck are you talking about? I said, I am so much better looking than Draymond Green.

• 1:13:16David Friedberg?

  He'll never get over that, Draymond. He'll talk about that for years. He'll never get over that.

• 1:13:20Chamath Palihapitiya?

  It's been a year, I'm still tilted.

• 1:13:22Jason Calacanis?

  Let's not get crazy, okay? You're solid sevens on a podcast full of fives. Take it easy.

• 1:13:29Speaker 03

  Day day read, uh, Gold Blots Gus.

• 1:13:31Speaker 05

  Gold Blots Gus. Draymond Green still shoots like he got the door hit and he's more of a.

• 1:13:43David Friedberg?

  We invite Draymond, we invite Draymond on this nice podcast, don't even tell him. Have him roast himself, this is, he's never coming back.

• 1:13:51Speaker 05

  Gold Blots the Gus.

• 1:13:56Speaker 05

  Oh my god.

• 1:13:57Jason Calacanis?

  This is just, it's so hard, it's so hardcore.

• 1:13:59Speaker 03

  Oh my god.

• 1:14:00David Friedberg?

  That was really fun, Draymond, that was really fun to have you on. Thanks for coming on.

• 1:14:04Speaker 05

  Thank you, I appreciate it.

• 1:14:05Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Besties, I love you guys, I love all of you, baby, I love you.

• 1:14:09Speaker 05

  I also appreciate you fucking nerds for not talking circles about, around me on this podcast, leave that for the chat.

• 1:14:16David Friedberg?

  Alright.

• 1:14:17Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Love you, big boy.

• 1:14:19Speaker 05

  I love you.

• 1:14:19David Friedberg?

  Yeah, we appreciate you, Draymond.

• 1:14:20Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Love you guys.

• 1:14:21Speaker 05

  No doubt.

• 1:14:22Chamath Palihapitiya?

  Love you, besties.

• 1:14:23Jason Calacanis?

  I love you, besties.