01 | A succulent chinese meal

Who is the man behind Australia's most iconic internet meme, who famously said “What is the charge? Eating a meal, a succulent Chinese meal? Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjsDMqOdjiQ

• 0:00Speaker 00

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  I'm David Marr, host of Late Night Live on Radio National.

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  Very suave, erudite kind of guy.

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  Late Night Live, four new shows a week on ABC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:36Speaker 03

  There's this Australian video that went viral. You may have seen it. It's known as "A Succulent Chinese Meal". It's a remarkable, spontaneous performance given by the late Jack Carlson, who died in 2024. Hello, Hilary Harper, bringing you ABC Rewind. And today we're following Lawrence Bull as he meets the man who declared to the police and to the world, "This is Democracy Manifest". And a warning, this episode contains some strong language, adult themes and graphic descriptions, so it's not one for little ears.

• 1:22Speaker 04

  Gentlemen, this is Democracy Manifest.

• 1:27Speaker 05

  The first time I came across this video, I had to go back and re-watch it a few times. It's hard to describe what makes it one of the most engaging videos on the internet.

• 1:36Speaker 04

  Have a look at the headlock here. See that chap over there? Get your hand off my penis!

• 1:42Speaker 05

  Watching it, I feel like I'm watching an absurd comedy and a great documentary rolled into one. The rarest of mash-ups.

• 1:50Speaker 04

  This is the bloke who got me on the penis before? Get some cups. Why did you do this? Get some cups. For what reason? What is the charge? Eating a meal? A succulent Chinese meal?

• 2:02Speaker 05

  If you haven't seen it before, here's what happens. The man being escorted to the police car has a handlebar moustache and looks to be in his late 40s. He immediately reaches out and shuts the car door and turns to wander off. When an officer opens the car door again and reaches for him, he gives an indignant look and slams the door closed again. The whole time, he's trying to put his sunglasses on.

• 2:26Speaker 04

  Oh, that's some nice headlocks, sir. Oh, ah, yes. I see that you know your judo well.

• 2:35Speaker 05

  He's outraged that he won't get a chance to address whoever's behind the camera. But then, as he stands steady while six police officers try to force him into a car, all he has to say is nonsense.

• 2:46Speaker 04

  And you, sir. Are you waiting to receive my limp penis? Now, take your hands off me.

• 2:53Speaker 05

  Finally, they tip him backwards like a tall piece of furniture and ease him in diagonally. As his head starts to dip out of sight, he says...

• 3:02Speaker 04

  Tada! And bail him.

• 3:06Speaker 05

  Surely, no innocent person would act like this. But it makes no sense that a guilty person would act like this either. I had the same questions as hundreds of the comments below the online video.

• 3:19Speaker 06

  What's the backstory to this?

• 3:22Speaker 05

  What did this guy do?

• 3:24Speaker 06

  Where and when did this happen?

• 3:25Speaker 05

  And why was he behaving like that?

• 3:26Speaker 06

  What was he even arrested for?

• 3:28Speaker 05

  Who was this guy?

• 3:29Speaker 06

  What happened to this legendary man?

• 3:32Speaker 05

  Some people said it was staged, maybe cut from a TV show.

• 3:35Speaker 07

  Is this real?

• 3:36Speaker 05

  Other people said it was a reenactment for a crime show.

• 3:39Speaker 07

  Who is this guy? Who is this guy?

• 3:42Speaker 05

  The most popular theory was that the man was an eccentric chess master named Paul Charles Dozer, who was famous for running out of restaurants without paying. He'd bragged that he held the world record for dining and dashing. And that's the theory that took off.

• 3:57Speaker 08

  Dozer's hilarious delivery and defiant attitude made him something of a folk hero in the eyes of many Australians, who consider him to be a lovable rogue.

• 4:07Speaker 05

  Newspapers and magazines like Who Weekly, New Idea, and The Daily Mail ran articles on Dozer, stating that he was the man in the video.

• 4:16Speaker 09

  Yes, this guy wasn't just some crazy old man. He was actually a chess champion.

• 4:22Speaker 05

  But some commentators weren't convinced.

• 4:26Speaker 04

  This is not Paul Dozer.

• 4:27Speaker 05

  Dozer had died in 2003, but people who claimed to know him said he spoke with a thick Hungarian accent.

• 4:33Speaker 10

  Well, I knew Paul Dozer, and this is not him.

• 4:36Speaker 04

  We're sure it's not him, not even close.

• 4:38Speaker 10

  Nothing like him.

• 4:39Speaker 04

  So who is this legend?

• 4:41Speaker 05

  This is Dozer explaining his dine and dash behaviour to the ABC a few years after the arrest video was made.

• 4:47Speaker 11

  The Hungarian Military Strategic Mine Research Organisation controlled my energy figured through ex-Soviet Union satellite. I know it sounds unbelievable.

• 5:00Speaker 05

  The more I learnt, the more questions I had.

• 5:05Speaker 05

  But nobody came forward with a better explanation. So, despite millions of views over many years, it seemed like the identity of the man and the reason for his bizarre arrest would remain a mystery.

• 5:19Speaker 05

  Until late 2019, when another video appeared online.

• 5:23Speaker 04

  You ready? Yep. What do you want me to say? Democracy Manifest. Gentlemen, this is Democracy Manifest. Get your heads off my penis. And also get your...

• 5:39Speaker 05

  It's him, the man who was arrested outside the Chinese restaurant. He's indoors, sitting down, eating at a table. He's 30 years older, but it's finally him. But there's no explanation. We're not told who he is, where he is, nothing.

• 5:57Speaker 05

  Six months later, another video appears on YouTube.

• 6:00Speaker 04

  Ladies and gentlemen, I am Mr Democracy Manifest, not some Hungarian chess player. It is I.

• 6:09Speaker 05

  It's him again. This time he's alone, talking directly to the camera. He says his famous arrest outside the restaurant had been a case of mistaken identity, and he'd acted that way because he wanted the police to put him in an asylum where he could easily escape. Then he plays an old news report from the time of his infamous arrest.

• 6:30Speaker 12

  When Cecil George Edwards was arrested in the Chinatown Mall last Friday, the Valley Police thought they had one of Queensland's most wanted. Instead, he was a petty criminal, working under several aliases, the police allege, a con man with a flair for acting.

• 6:44Speaker 04

  What is the charge? Eating a meal? A succulent Chinese meal? Oh, that's a nice headlock, sir.

• 6:53Speaker 05

  I can't make sense of this news story. Heaps of police showed up, media in tow, and arrested this man, thinking he was one of Queensland's Most Wanted. He wasn't the criminal they were looking for, but by amazing coincidence, he was also a wanted criminal. And he just happened to be committing a crime right at the moment they mistakenly caught him. How does that happen? What are the odds? But now, there's a lead. He's selling merchandise plastered with pictures and quotes from his famous video.

• 7:26Speaker 13

  Get your hand off my penis. Rather go and clasp a bottle of this wonderful Pinot Noir.

• 7:33Speaker 05

  So after a few emails and a lot of waiting, I get him on the line.

• 7:40Speaker 13

  Hello, Lawrence. My name's Jack and I have many other aliases.

• 7:44Speaker 05

  It's good to talk to you.

• 7:45Speaker 13

  Yeah.

• 7:47Speaker 05

  Let's go to that time in the 90s when they took you out of the restaurant.

• 7:51Speaker 13

  Hmm.

• 7:51Speaker 05

  What were you doing in the restaurant?

• 7:53Speaker 13

  I had a mate with me. We were having a good feed, which it was a restaurant I used to go to quite often. Next moment, they've ran in. I knew they had the wrong bloke. So I thought, well, why not let them think that I'm a lunatic? So that's why I was uttering all these things. Get your hand off my penis and... Because I remember once, I got into a place. I had me drill going into the safe and they fell on me. The police. Got me back to the police station and I'm giving them cheek and they're bashing me. They used to love bashing you.

• 8:35Speaker 13

  So I'd pull me dick out and say, keep hitting me again. I love it. Come on, hit me again. And I'd keep trying to masturbate as they're smashing me. And they sent me to the Good and the Lunatic asylum.

• 8:53Speaker 13

  And I escaped from there quite easily.

• 8:56Speaker 14

  So that was your plan. So that's where get your hand off my penis came from.

• 9:00Speaker 13

  Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe. I were looking for a Hungarian chess player, Doza.

• 9:10Speaker 13

  Once we got back to the police station, of course, they found out that I wasn't this Hungarian dashin' diner. And they gave me bail.

• 9:23Speaker 05

  This doesn't make sense. How could the police have possibly mistaken him for Doza? Also, Doza's crime was running out on restaurant bills. There was no way he was one of Queensland's Most Wanted. And you wouldn't send a small army of police officers to arrest him.

• 9:41Speaker 14

  You were using stolen credit cards at that time, or what was going on?

• 9:45Speaker 13

  No, no, no. I did nothing wrong in the restaurants. I love a restaurant.

• 9:51Speaker 14

  Didn't you have to pay bail?

• 9:52Speaker 13

  Oh, yeah, yeah, of course. That was when they charged me with resisting arrest.

• 9:58Speaker 14

  They said they also charged you with fraud and receiving stolen property.

• 10:02Speaker 13

  Did they?

• 10:02Speaker 14

  That's what they said in the paper.

• 10:04Speaker 05

  I don't understand why Jack doesn't just acknowledge the fraud charges. But he's not talking, or he genuinely doesn't know. So I leave it for now.

• 10:13Speaker 14

  And they call you Cecil Jerry Edwards.

• 10:15Speaker 13

  Oh, you're going back to when I was sixteen years of age. That was my name.

• 10:22Speaker 14

  Oh, really?

• 10:22Speaker 13

  Yes.

• 10:23Speaker 14

  Because this was in ninety-one that I'm talking about.

• 10:25Speaker 13

  I'm going back to nineteen fifty-eight. You weren't even alive then.

• 10:32Speaker 14

  Yeah.

• 10:35Speaker 13

  I was with a couple of blokes and they robbed a place. And I was in the backseat drinking brandy vino. That's all we could get in them days. And they arrested us. So I had a trial. And I thought I'd defend myself.

• 10:53Speaker 13

  What an idiot thing to do. Imagine me, a seventy-year-old boy. I was actually cross-examining the coppers in courts like some lawyer. The other two older blokes said, "Yeah, we're guilty." "We're guilty." I said, "I know nothing about it. I'm not guilty." So I got five years in jail when I was seventy years old. The blokes who'd done the crime got three years.

• 11:24Speaker 05

  It's odd to me that Jack would laugh at something so distressing, but he does it so often during our conversation that I stopped noticing. Jack went to Boggo Road Jail, maximum security and notorious for its brutal conditions.

• 11:43Speaker 13

  And they put me in a cell with two other boys, and the food was disgusting. And I said to them, I said, "Come, mates, we can't eat this one tonight, but we're hungry. We'll have to eat it." And we all had diarrhoea. In those days, cells didn't have toilets or sinks or anything. And the shit tub, it was overflowing. We were vomiting. So I've knocked up on the door and I said, "Screw. Can we have another shit tub, please?" They said, "No. One cell, one shit tub." So then I just threw a bucket of shit over the cheap water. Got this.

• 12:29Speaker 13

  Well, they come in, they flogged me and and they put me in what they call the Black Peter. Not many people have been in the Black Peter.

• 12:42Speaker 13

  There's a huge trapdoor. You go down these steps

• 12:49Speaker 13

  into a dungeon, I think, and it's all dark.

• 12:55Speaker 13

  You're on a braiding water.

• 13:00Speaker 13

  That was horrible.

• 13:05Speaker 13

  Oh, I don't want to think about this.

• 13:09Speaker 05

  Jack says the Black Peter was the worst thing he'd ever experienced. He'd bang on the doors and fight with the guards just so he could see the light for a few minutes while they bashed him. The man in the cell next to him had been there for months. He finally lost his mind and was hauled off to an asylum.

• 13:31Speaker 05

  Jack still has nightmares about the Black Peter.

• 13:35Speaker 05

  He still sleeps with the lights on.

• 13:38Speaker 05

  After that, he couldn't tolerate being in the cell anymore. Being locked up, he felt he couldn't breathe. He had to get out.

• 13:52Speaker 13

  I was being escorted from Bogger Road in a train. I was handcuffed to some other bloke. I say to myself, I'm not going to front on this blue.

• 14:03Speaker 13

  I was pretending to be asleep and the cop opposite me, he's nodding off a bit, so I've just undone the handcuff with the prong of me belt, tippy-tay down the corridor and leapt out of the bloody train.

• 14:21Speaker 13

  It's a wonder I didn't smash into a bloody signal post or something. But from there, I was careful. I'd just stay in the bush for the day and other night I'd walk. Managed to get a car and I ended up in Sydney anyway.

• 14:42Speaker 13

  It was so beautiful to breathe that air.

• 14:47Speaker 13

  I met a beautiful woman. I married her. I had a child to her. All I wanted to do was live a decent life. I didn't want screws hitting me with battens. I didn't want to be in Black Peters. I didn't want to be told what to do and I got out and it was so beautiful.

• 15:07Speaker 05

  After he tells me about his time in prison, I start to understand Jack's behaviour in the video. He was traumatised in custody and he was prepared to take big risks to avoid going back. I want to keep him talking. He isn't about to own up to any crimes in the restaurant, but I want him to tell me enough about his criminal history so I can figure out what he might have been up to inside the restaurant before his famous diatribe.

• 15:32Speaker 13

  Eventually, a bloke said to me, "Mate, we can open a safe this way." "We didn't rob the poor, we only robbed the scum that are robbing us, the banks and the other vermin."

• 15:50Speaker 05

  Jack got four years for safe-cracking. He ended up in French Island Prison Farm in the middle of Westernport Bay, outside Melbourne.

• 15:58Speaker 13

  The governor called me and he showed me all these photos of prisoners who tried to escape, eaten by sharks or drowned. "You can't get away from here." "Oh, I don't want to get away from here, governor. It looks like a wonderful paradise." "But soon as I got there, there's me mate Pete, working in the vegetable garden." "Two days later, me and Pete, we just took off."

• 16:29Speaker 05

  Jack and Pete walked overnight, down by the water, so the tide would cover their footprints by morning.

• 16:37Speaker 05

  After dodging search patrols for a week, they came across a motorboat, circling aimlessly in shallow water.

• 16:44Speaker 13

  And then all of a sudden we heard it bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum bum. "What the fuck's that?" Going out, left the board,

• 16:55Speaker 13

  and there was a bloke asleep. I wake him up, I said, "You must be them prisoners that escaped there,

• 17:04Speaker 13

  took us across to the mainland."

• 17:08Speaker 13

  "What a good man, what a good man. A Scotchman, he was a Scotchman."

• 17:15Speaker 13

  "There's such a beautiful thing when you can escape from tyranny." "God, I felt so good."

• 17:27Speaker 13

  Tried to steal a couple of cars to get back to Sydney and then we tried to get acquitted. Eventually got pinched.

• 17:34Speaker 05

  Jack and his mate got caught cruising Parramatta late at night with safe braking tools. So at the courthouse, waiting for his trial to start, Jack put on a performance, a bit like the one outside the restaurant. He pretended to be a cop.

• 17:52Speaker 13

  It was a big cell with about 20 people in it.

• 17:56Speaker 13

  And I pretended to walk in and looked like a detective. I was only 25. So I grabbed me mate. I said, "Open this cell door, you know I am Detective Sergeant Rogers. Open this door. I'm taking this man round to the forecourt." All the blokes in the cell were saying, "You copper dog Rogers." Because I geared him up. And I grabbed me mate, he said, "I'm not going." And I've had to give him a couple of punches like coppers normally do. And he opened the door.

• 18:32Speaker 13

  Away we walked.

• 18:37Speaker 13

  I've got eight years for that. But that's life, isn't it?

• 18:45Speaker 05

  Jack spent almost a quarter of a century growing up in jails and boys' homes. Then at age 33, he was finally free.

• 18:54Speaker 13

  That was beautiful, to have that freedom again.

• 19:00Speaker 13

  To get parole, you had to have a job. And they got me a job on the TV, doing things like pretending to be a police informer and all the things that I'm not.

• 19:18Speaker 13

  Division four, cop shop, Matlock Police, homicide. These were things that were on the TV every week.

• 19:31Speaker 13

  You know how we got sacked?

• 19:34Speaker 13

  There was a scene in the back of a pub.

• 19:39Speaker 05

  In the scene, a young Jack and the other actors are drinking around a barrel of beer.

• 19:44Speaker 13

  And it's a real barrel.

• 19:47Speaker 04

  You're wrong, mister. Bloody point, I tell you. Reverend Hartley done what he's supposed to do. Got them off their bums out doing a bit of work.

• 19:54Speaker 13

  They got a take of that ten shots. And the director said, "Just have a sip, pour it out, have a sip, tip it out." And I said to you blokes, "Don't tip it out, don't you dare. Just fucking keep drinking." And we kept drinking and they think that... You know how stilted those shit was, that stuff? But this wasn't stilted, no. A fair dick and drunk.

• 20:18Speaker 04

  Let me put it this way, T. Yes. If everybody bloody person round here was as hard as some people I know, then we may as well all toss it in.

• 20:32Speaker 13

  So they sacked me. So I fled to Queensland because I lost my parole.

• 20:41Speaker 05

  Let's go to that video when they took you out of the restaurant. Why did you say, "This is democracy manifest"? Is that a political statement?

• 20:50Speaker 13

  At the time, everyone's talking about how wonderful democracy is. Maybe that could have been a political statement.

• 21:01Speaker 13

  "Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest." As they got me round the throat and putting handcuffs on me.

• 21:18Speaker 05

  Jack's arrest outside the Chinese restaurant is making more and more sense. He'd been a serial escaper, a fraudster and a performer. I want to ask him more, but I can tell he's getting tired and wants to go.

• 21:33Speaker 05

  Maybe the cops had been after Jack. They might have sent a lot of police because they were worried he'd try to escape again. Also, he clearly had a criminal history. Who knows what he could have been wanted for? This would explain a lot, except why would the news report call him a petty criminal?

• 21:53Speaker 05

  I figure someone out there knows something. So I scour thousands of YouTube comments for snippets of information. Eventually, I come across a commenter who said their university lecturer was one of the detectives in the arrest video.

• 22:09Speaker 15

  The cop in the red tie is my lecturer at Queensland University of Technology in Australia. He's now a professor in law school and showed us this video of his earlier career.

• 22:20Speaker 15

  I couldn't believe it.

• 22:23Speaker 05

  I contact the university and after some convincing, I get the former detective on the line. His name's Dean.

• 22:32Speaker 05

  In the video, Dean's the one trying to order Jack into the car.

• 22:35Speaker 16

  Sit down inside the car. We're not assuring anything. We're under arrest. Look, I'm under what?

• 22:41Speaker 17

  My partner and I at the time, we were sitting in the fraud squad on a Friday afternoon and there's not usually that much happening in the fraud squad on a Friday afternoon. There certainly wasn't back in those days. We were probably cleaning which pub we were about to go to. The last thing we wanted to do was be involved in some dramatic incident on the streets.

• 22:59Speaker 05

  They got a call to go down to Fortitude Valley to help some uniformed officers.

• 23:04Speaker 17

  And turning the corner there at Chinatown in the valley to where the restaurant was and just been confronted by this wall of people and cameras. It was like they were behind barricades with police sort of manning the barricades. It was almost like a film set or something.

• 23:20Speaker 17

  So we went into the restaurant and there was heaps of other police. The uniformed inspector or whatever said to us, listen, we don't know what to do with this guy. For us, it was just a matter of working out what we could charge him with.

• 23:33Speaker 05

  And what was the charge? Eating a meal or sucking a Chinese meal?

• 23:37Speaker 17

  Yeah, yeah. He had like an American Express card and it was either forged or in the wrong name. So I suspect we charged him with forgery or something like that.

• 23:50Speaker 05

  On the news, they said, police had been hoping to arrest one of Queensland's Most Wanted. And instead, they got this guy. Who were they talking about, one of Queensland's Most Wanted?

• 24:01Speaker 17

  I don't know where that would have come from. I mean, he wasn't Dillinger or anything like that, but he also wasn't just some fly-by-night guy. It wasn't they were going, why did we go through all that drama just for a $70 skip check on a meal or something?

• 24:14Speaker 05

  Yeah. Since then, the narrative now on the internet is that you were hoping to catch Paul Dozer, the dine-and-dasher, and you ended up getting this guy, Jack Carlson.

• 24:27Speaker 17

  Utter rubbish, utter rubbish.

• 24:31Speaker 05

  After struggling to get Jack into the car,

• 24:34Speaker 05

  the police took him to the watchhouse.

• 24:38Speaker 05

  But when Dean showed up for work the next morning, Jack was long gone.

• 24:43Speaker 17

  He managed to talk them into thinking that he would be a safe bet to let out. It was a shock to us when we found out the next day that the watchhouse had let him out.

• 24:53Speaker 05

  Jack ran off and didn't show up to court.

• 24:55Speaker 18

  Brisbane's credit card con man, picked up at a Valley restaurant a week ago, has gone to ground.

• 25:01Speaker 19

  Anyone with information is asked to call Crime Stoppers.

• 25:04Speaker 17

  From that point on, it was sort of a case of trying to track him down again.

• 25:08Speaker 05

  Dean remembers the alleged credit card fraud being in the tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars. He staked out a Commonwealth bank branch for days, hoping Jack would stop by.

• 25:19Speaker 17

  I mean, he became a bit of an enigma in a way, the way he sort of disappeared. For someone who was such an accomplished actor like him, it seemed all perfectly set up for him to do his sort of scene in front of the camera.

• 25:34Speaker 05

  So you're aware of his acting credits?

• 25:36Speaker 17

  No, I'm not.

• 25:38Speaker 17

  It sounds like you're going to tell me something here.

• 25:42Speaker 05

  Did you ever watch any of the old Crawford police shows?

• 25:46Speaker 17

  Oh, I love Homicide.

• 25:50Speaker 17

  What are you gonna tell me now? He's did a bit part in that or something?

• 25:53Speaker 05

  Yeah, he's in Homicide.

• 25:54Speaker 17

  You're kidding me.

• 25:56Speaker 04

  I tell you, I went in for two pots, that's all. I come out here, had to go back on me rounds. And me bloody car's gone. Are you sure it was in this street? Course I'm sure. A man spends a fortune paying off his car, what, for some rotten galahad to come along and knock it off? I know, I know it's a free country and democracy and all that, but street, hell the hell.

• 26:21Speaker 05

  Dean's sure they weren't in the Chinese restaurant to arrest Dozer or any other criminal. They were there to arrest Jack, which makes sense.

• 26:31Speaker 05

  Jack was using stolen credit cards, and the reason he won't admit it is that he skipped bail and never went to court.

• 26:40Speaker 05

  But I'm still no closer to understanding why a small army of police turned up, or the media. Dean couldn't explain it either.

• 26:50Speaker 05

  But most of all, I want to understand why Jack acted like that. He says he was acting insane, but that doesn't make much sense.

• 26:59Speaker 05

  Is insanity even a defence for eating out on stolen credit cards? Why did he say those bizarre and hilarious lines that have become so beloved? Why was he delivering them like a thespian monologue?

• 27:12Speaker 05

  In our last interview, Jack mentioned acting on stage and talked about his bit parts on crime dramas. But when I play back the recording, I pick up on something I didn't notice before.

• 27:24Speaker 04

  To get parole, he had to have a job. And they got me a job with Crawford McNeil got me out.

• 27:30Speaker 05

  McNeil. The name didn't mean anything to me at the time, but I find out he was a famous playwright who did all of his writing from prison. He was also an alcoholic and a fiercely vocal critic of the justice system.

• 27:44Speaker 04

  Gentlemen, this is democracy manifest.

• 27:50Speaker 05

  I book a flight to Queensland to meet Jack in person. It turns out, everything he's told me so far is just the entree to the incredible story behind this succulent Chinese meal.

• 28:03Speaker 03

  Next time in Rewind, you'll meet the playwright Jim McNeil, who introduced Jack Carlson to acting when they were cellmates in Parramatta Jail. And Laurence solves the mystery of why Jack was arrested outside the Chinese restaurant.

• 28:16Speaker 20

  He put on a great performance for the media. And I say a great performance because as soon as we got in the car and as soon as we drove away, he stopped and he actually said to us, "That was fun."

• 28:33Speaker 03

  A succulent Chinese meal was written and produced by Laurence Ball. The sound designer was John Jacobs and the supervising producer was Claudia Taranto. A Rewind production for ABC Radio National.

• 28:45Speaker 15

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